Jan 3 - 6 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6719 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Help with name needed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6720 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6721 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6722 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6723 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: A personal response to L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6724 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Thanks and compliments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6725 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6726 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Pax, fellow citizens.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6727 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6728 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective - not
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6729 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: About Accensi and Scribae-To C. Flavius Diocletianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6730 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6731 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective - not
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6732 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: The Cohors & minors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6733 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Help with name needed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6734 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius' staff
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6735 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6736 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6737 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Quaestor Assignments for MMDCCLVI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6738 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6739 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6740 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6741 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Calvus' petition: request for clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6742 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6743 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: My support of and trust in my Accensi Junior!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6744 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6745 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6746 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6747 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6748 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: And Finally, I'll Respond (to Tiberius Galerius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6749 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6750 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: And Finally, I'll Respond (to Tiberius Galerius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6751 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6752 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6753 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: The minor accensi issue
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6754 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Could anyone tell me....?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6755 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6756 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Oath as Accensus Ordinarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6757 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Could anyone tell me....?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6758 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Young People
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6759 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Could anyone tell me....?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6760 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Vesting of Imperium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6761 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6762 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6763 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Quotation source?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6764 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6765 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Quotation source?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6766 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Tribune LPO comments on the request of intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6767 From: Rachel Dugdale Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Oath for Apparitoria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6768 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Lacus Magni for OHIO STATE BUCKEYES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6769 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Calvus' petition: request for clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6770 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Tribune LPO comments on the request of intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6771 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Youth Group
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6772 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6773 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Youth Group
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6774 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Century Points (A Reply to L. Cornelius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6775 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6776 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6777 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6778 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6779 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6780 From: Krysialtemus@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Lacus Magni for OHIO STATE BUCKEYES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6781 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: OATH OF OFFICE ACCENSA MAGNA CONSULARA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6782 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Cohors Consulis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6783 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Q. Cassius' reply
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6784 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6785 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6786 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6787 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: ELECTION CALL FOR ONE CANDIDATE FOR THE QUAESTORSHIP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6788 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6789 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6790 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6791 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6792 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6793 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Thank You Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6794 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6795 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6796 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6797 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6798 From: aneaapollonia@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6799 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: birthday information
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6800 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Any German speakers care to answer this?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6801 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: birthday information
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6802 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: "It wasn't the end or even the beginning of the end it was the end
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6803 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Appointment of Provincial Scribe.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6804 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Thankyou Equestria!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6805 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Any German speakers care to answer this?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6806 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Oath of office as Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6807 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Let's get organised guys....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6808 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6809 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Official email address for Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6810 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6811 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6812 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6813 From: Barry Smith Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6814 From: morsepone7 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: newsletter -- have editor yet? or backissues?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6815 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re. Let's get organized guys...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6816 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Re. Let's get organized guys...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6817 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6818 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Digest No 385 Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6819 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Comitia Curiata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6820 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: OBSERVE QUAESTOR ASSIGNMENT FOR MMDCCLVI - second time
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6821 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Re. Let's get organized guys...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6822 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: OBSERVE QUAESTOR ASSIGNMENT FOR MMDCCLVI - second time
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6823 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Tribune LPO comments on the request of |intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6824 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6825 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6826 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: List Organization
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6827 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Quaestor Assignments for MMDCCLVI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6828 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6829 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Candidacy for Quaestorship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6830 From: rabotnik@ Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: My candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6831 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Formal refusal of Q. Cassius Calvus request
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6832 From: Piparskeggr Ullarsson Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: In regards to the vesting of Imperium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6833 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestorship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6834 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: My candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6835 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Formal refusal of Q. Cassius Calvus request
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6836 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6837 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Investment of Imperium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6838 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6839 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6840 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organized guys...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6841 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: A public thanks!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6842 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Discourses in the Forum, etc.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6843 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6844 From: gens.minius@club-internet.fr Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Candidacy for the Quaestorship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6845 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6846 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6847 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6848 From: aneaapollonia@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Discourses in the Forum, etc.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6849 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6850 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6851 From: 3s@hsk-net.de Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6852 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6853 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Digest No 386
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6854 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6855 From: 3s@hsk-net.de Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: AW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6856 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Digest No 386
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6857 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6858 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6859 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6860 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6861 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6862 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6863 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6864 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III - VIII Id. Ianvarias MMD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6865 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III - VIII Id. Ianvarias MMD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6866 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6867 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6868 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Scriba Propraetoris Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6869 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6719 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Help with name needed.
XAVIER m English, French, Portuguese
Pronounced: ZAY-vee-ur, ZAY-vyur, ig-ZAY-vee-ur
Derived from the Basque place name Etxabier meaning "the new house". Saint Francis Xavier was the Jesuit priest who popularized the name. He was a missionary to India, Japan, China, and other areas in eastern Asia. He is the patron saint of the Orient and missionaries.






The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
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(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 7:46 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Help with name needed.


Salvete,

An individual has made an enquiry about the name
'Xavier', it's roots and heritage. Can anyone help,
specifically whether this name was used in ancient
times.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Scriba Censoris.

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6720 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ
From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to those concerned. Salvete.

The organization of the Cohors Consulis CFQ is fairly standard for most political departments in the executive sections of government world-wide. The noble consul recruited citizens who he felt shared similar views to his views for the purposes outlined in his plan for the coming year. I cannot speak for my fellows in the cohors but I am glad to be part of something that will forward the development of NR. In regards to credit, all efforts go to the Republic. Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6721 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Yes! Ops, I´m very sorry!

L. Arminius Faustus


-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> >I just want to make everyone know that I HAVEN`T
> >vetoed the appeal of Cassius Nerva....
>
> Perhaps you mean Cassius Calvus?
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6722 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ
Salve Dear cousin and congratr on appoint to Cohors Consulis CFQ. What I realy want to know and the MILLIONS of readers of the Eagle are dieing to see is YOUR article on ROMAN cooking. I have titled the Coulmn "Hay Roman, what cooking"

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:09 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to those concerned. Salvete.

The organization of the Cohors Consulis CFQ is fairly standard for most political departments in the executive sections of government world-wide. The noble consul recruited citizens who he felt shared similar views to his views for the purposes outlined in his plan for the coming year. I cannot speak for my fellows in the cohors but I am glad to be part of something that will forward the development of NR. In regards to credit, all efforts go to the Republic. Vivat Nova Roma!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6723 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: A personal response to L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious L. Cornelius Sulla Felix. Salve.

I am not serving the Consul and the Republic for points. We serve at the discretion of the Consul and he serves by the will of the People of the Republic. One cannot separate the wheat from the chaff until the labor has begun. May the gods grant you good fortune. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6724 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Thanks and compliments
Salve, Maior Maximus!

> The year finished, and i am no more the Tribunus
> Plebis.

Faustus: You have my fully support for praetor!

> I want to thank to the Plebs and to Nova Roma for this
> opportunity, and to my former Tribunician Scribe,
> Lucius Arminius Faustus, for their excellent job.
>
> Fauste will continue to be my provincial Scribe, and
> now he is Quaestor, and Aedilis Plebis! My deepest
> congratulations, and may the gods help you in this
> year.

Faustus: Yes... thanks a lot, Arminius Maior, my paterfamilias, a
really PATER in all meanings about my growing on NR.

Sometimes I get on my chair and see that two titles and my belly gets
cold, thinking on the responsabilities and duties. May the goddess
Concordia, who above all I worship on my lararium, Queen Minerva and
Supplier Vulcanus, help me.

When I see the quaestoirship I see the mirror image of the aedilship,
when I face the aedilship I see the speculum of the quaestorship.
Like the two faces of Ianus Pater.

And the future? I´m the only quaestor for the South Hemisfere! We
have a tradition of great games for the aedil. The translations, oh,
my dearest translations, how I miss making it on that hard
professional times!

And a eternal homework, dearest Maior, growing NR on provincial
level. That is the 13th work of Hercules, our work.

I´m fullfilled of glories. Now just the heroic epic of daily silent
alone work waits us, magistrates.

L. Arminius Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6725 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Ave,

Actually, Accensus do get century points as do scribes based on section IV. A. 9 of the Constitution and the Lex Vedia Centuriatia (http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-21-iv.html). So having 26 members of a staff is rewarding them century points. Please go back and review.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 2:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...


In a message dated 1/3/03 1:38:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lafaustus@... writes:


> This is a misunderstanding of the law. The under 18 citizens can have
> positions like acensus et scriba (apparitores) without trouble. They
> simple have no century points. The problem is for elected
> magistracies.
>

Interesting. So you are saying the constitution allows under age citizens to
be employed by NR? Really? I think you better go back and read your Vedian,
Aedile.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6726 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Pax, fellow citizens.
From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to M. Octavius Germanicus and Q. Cassius Calvus. Salvete.

Pax, good sirs, pax! M. Octavius Germanicus has correctly pointed out that Q. Cassius Calvus has correctly adhered to the laws and Constitution of the Republic. Correct? The laws of the Republic are part of the glory and beauty of NR just as were the laws of AR. Q. Cassius has acted as his office and his honor required him to do so by the laws as written. De iure versus de facto. Let us praise the magistrate who does his task rather than slight him. Let every citizens support the Republic by good works and the Virtues. May Concordia grant peace and happiness to us all in the new year. Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6727 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
Salve Senator Corneli,

> Actually, Accensus do get century points as do scribes based on
> section IV. A. 9 of the Constitution and the Lex Vedia Centuriatia
> (http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-21-iv.html).
> So having 26 members of a staff is rewarding them century points.

Yes, for the current year, they do get this small reward. The points
evaporate at the end of the year.

For the minors who are scribae, the points are irrelevant, as they
cannot vote and thus are not placed in any century.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6728 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective - not
LOL I just gotta say I loved your subject. You are such an outside perspective, M. Octavius.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:28 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Some remarks from an outside perspective


Salvete Quirites Novae Romae!

<Snip>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6729 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: About Accensi and Scribae-To C. Flavius Diocletianus
From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious C. Flavius Diocletianus. Salve.

Well said, Conscript Father, very well said.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6730 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Intercessio of the Aedilship - Re: Petition to the Plebian Tr...



Salve Senator Corneli,

> Actually, Accensus do get century points as do scribes based on
> section IV. A. 9 of the Constitution and the Lex Vedia Centuriatia
> (http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-21-iv.html).
> So having 26 members of a staff is rewarding them century points.

Yes, for the current year, they do get this small reward.

Sulla: A small reward, but one that might push up people from one Century Class to another, thus increaing their voting power.

The points
evaporate at the end of the year.

Sulla: Regardless, in hiring 26 people he has just improved his staff's voting power in the centuries.

For the minors who are scribae, the points are irrelevant, as they
cannot vote and thus are not placed in any century.

Sulla: Sure, thats two people. So instead, we have to worry about 24 people instead of 26.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6731 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective - not
Salve mi Sulla,

LOL I just gotta say I loved your subject. You are such an outside perspective, M. Octavius.


MOS: Hmm well... I do have an opinion, of course! But in the current politics of Nova Roma, I am an outsider :o).

Vale bene!
M. Octavius Solaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6732 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: The Cohors & minors
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrus C. Fabius Quintilianus. Salve.

Here in Tennessee, we have legal minors who serve in the state house as interns. Perhaps the accensi iunores should be redesignated as interns (without having to swear an oath) but a part of your household; a fictional guardianship like an uncle unrelated by blood who sees to the practical education of the minor.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6733 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Help with name needed.
Salve,

Thanks for the info. I shall forward to the individual
concerned.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.


--- Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@...>
wrote:

XAVIER   m   English, French,
Portuguese<BR>
Pronounced: ZAY-vee-ur, ZAY-vyur, ig-ZAY-vee-ur<BR>
Derived from the Basque place name Etxabier meaning
"the new house". Saint Francis Xavier was
the Jesuit priest who popularized the name. He was a
missionary to India, Japan, China, and other areas in
eastern Asia. He is the patron saint of the Orient and
missionaries. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The Law Office of James L. LaSalle<BR>
417 East 13th Street<BR>
Kansas City, Missouri 64106<BR>
(816).471.2111<BR>
(816).510.0072(cell)<BR>
(816).471.8412(Fax)<BR>
The information contained in this e-mail message is
attorney privileged and confidential information
intended only for the use of the individual or entity
named.  If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this
communication in error, please immediately notify the
sender by using the contact information in the
"reply to" field above and return the
original message to the sender.  Thank you.<BR>
  ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
  From: Decimus Iunius Silanus <BR>
  To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <BR>
  Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 7:46 AM<BR>
  Subject: [Nova-Roma] Help with name needed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  Salvete,<BR>
<BR>
  An individual has made an enquiry about the
name<BR>
  'Xavier', it's roots and heritage. Can anyone
help,<BR>
  specifically whether this name was used in
ancient<BR>
  times.<BR>
<BR>
  Valete<BR>
<BR>
  Decimus Iunius Silanus<BR>
  Scriba Censoris.<BR>
<BR>
 
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6734 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius' staff
On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 04:42 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> I must admit that I was surprised to see the number of assistants
> appointed, and I don´t see the necessity of such a large staff.

In an all-volunteer organization, it is usually considered beneficial
to engage the energy and interest of as wide a segment of the
membership as possible. One way to do this is to give them titles and
small, manageable responsibilities. I think this is the approach Caeso
Fabius is taking. One advantage of such an approach is that you have
backup people available to deal with the frequent cases where a small
group ends up becoming overburdened by doing most of the work of the
organization, or where personal circumstances prevent one official from
doing his or her job for a time. Among the large group enlisted by
Caeso Fabius since his election, one person has already had a difficult
situation erupt in his personal life, and assistants had already been
named and acquainted with the work which he had been assigned.

It's an energetic approach and one that I believe has a chance of
working. (If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't have accepted his offer
of an advisory post.)

I also believe that staff positions are an excellent way to get young
people involved and acquainted with the organization's functioning
before they are eligible to run for office. We have had many cases of
people who are willing to offer energy and ideas to NR, but who are too
young to take elected posts. This seems to me to be an ideal solution.
If they are prevented from serving in staff posts, I believe it will
deprive NR of useful resources to deny them the opportunity to serve in
such posts.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6735 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Salvete omnes:

In a time when we have 91 active citizens, and 1400 phantom citizens,
we're making a case because of 2 minors who happen to be very active, done
excellent work, and given plenty of dedicated time to NR. Come now,
gentlemen, don't you think that is running counter to NR's interests?

I'll say pray Iuppiter Maximus not to get angry.

Valete

Galerius Peregrinator.




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6736 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Salvete Quirites!

On the subject of appointing impuberes I have now re-checked with the
Constitution and some people who ought to know. The result is that my
appointments of two "impuberes" were _not_ illegal or
unconstitutional! Which doesn't come as a surprise to me.

THE CONSTITUTION
I am no lawyer, but I have tried to find anything in the Constitution
that forbids me to appoint "impuberes" as Apparitores. But as they
are _not_ Magistrates (Con. IV a. 9.) they are _not_ "responsible for
the maintenance and conduct of the affairs of state" (IV.), as
magistrates are. I can't see that appointing impuberes to be Accensi
(Apparitores) is illegal at all. Remember that these assistants are
just assisting me, they are not making any decisions at all. I am the
decision-maker here.

USA & SWEDEN
I acted under "good faith" when I appointed these Junior Accensi. If
I had appointed these young men to positions as responsible
Magistrati I would have been wrong, but these are not Magistrati (see
the Constitution), they are Apparitores. They are _not_ to be
compared with board members, but rather with "errand-boys" (still
very intelligent and competent), doing needed work, but with _no_
special authority. There are such "boys" all over Sweden and I think
also in USA (where Nova Roma is registered).

On the other hand I have been on the boards of a couple of national
Youth organisations in Sweden where there sat many under 18, but in
this case these very fine young men are _not_ at all sitting at some
board and don't have any authority at all. I have also got
information that "impuberes" have had high positions in american
(USA) organisations.

As my Junior Accensi do not have any position of authority I saw and
I still see no problem! My appointment wasn't illegal or
unconstitutional at all!
================
FYI:

THE CONSTITUTION OF NOVA ROMA

II. 2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their
children or legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law)
under the age of 18. Such Citizens shall be known as impuberes.

4. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that
shall be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
more witnesses. Impuberes may have their Citizenship relinquished on
their behalf by their parent or legal guardian (as defined by
relevant macronational law) by notification of the censors or by
public statement before three or more witnesses.

IV. Magistrates.
Magistrates are the elected and appointed officials responsible for
the maintenance and conduct of the affairs of state. There are two
categories of magistrates: ordinarii (those who are ordinarily
elected) and extraordinarii (those who are only occasionally
appointed or elected). Qualifications necessary to hold these
positions may be enacted by law properly passed by one of the comitia.

IV a. 9.
Apparitores (Attendants). Collectively, the apparitores shall not be
considered magistrates, but rather shall be appointed into various
decuriae (corporations) to fulfill those necessary functions as shall
be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia. They shall
include the l ictores, lictores curiati, scribae, and accensi.

=======================
LEX VEDIA APPARITORIA

(Enacted by dictatorial edictum 7/30/99 with the force and authority of law.)

In accordance with paragraph IV.A.8. of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the Lex Vedia Apparitoria is hereby enacted to create the
following decuria of apparitores and delineate their functions.

4. Decuria Assensia. The decuria assensia shall consist of assensi
(personal assistants), who shall undertake those administrative and
other functions as shall be assigned to them by the consul who they
are assisting. Members of the decuria assensia shall be appointed by
the consuls.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6737 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Quaestor Assignments for MMDCCLVI
Salvete Candidates for the Praetorship, elected Aediles and Quaestores!

The Consuls will soon assign Quaestores to this year's Aediles. This
is to be done by "mutual agreement" between all concerned according
to the Constitution.

The Consuls have already made an agreement with the following Quaestores:

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus with Sextus Appolonius Scipio as Consular Quaestor
Titus Labienus Fortunatus with Gnaeus Octavius Noricus as Consular Quaestor,

This year we have two complications, both of the Praetores for this
year are still unknown and we need one more Quaestor to be elected.
The three candidates for the two positions as Praetores are Marcus
Arminius Maior, Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Gnaeus Salix
Astur. The Senior Consul will soon call for the election of the two
Praetores and one additional Quaestor (first asking for candidates).

Thus, we may not be able to make all of the Quaestor's assignments at
the same time; at least a few of them may be dependent on the outcome
of the 3rd-round Praetor's election. Nevertheless, where there is a
clear agreement between a Quaestor and an Aedile, we will attempt to
make that assignment.

This is a list of the five available Quaestores:

Decimus Iunius Silanus, Lucius Arminius Faustus, Claudius Salix
Davianus, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Manius Constantinus Serapio.

This is the list of the elected Aediles:

Curule Aedils: Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Plebeian Aedils; Lucius Arminius Faustus and Marcus Scribonius Curio
Britannicus

I hereby ask all newly-elected Quaestores and Aediles to review the
lists of elected magistrates, contacting those who you would like to
serve with, and then to contact me as the Consul holding the fasces
for this month to state your preference as soon as possible.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6738 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> On the subject of appointing impuberes I have now re-checked with
the
> Constitution and some people who ought to know. The result is that
my
> appointments of two "impuberes" were _not_ illegal or
> unconstitutional! Which doesn't come as a surprise to me.
>

Salve Consul Caeso,

Please re-read my petition. It is not the appointment of impuberes
to your cohors which I found to be objectionable. The Constitution
states you may appoint whomever you wish. The petition is based upon
the requirment that apparitores take oaths. As impuberes the
question involves their ability to give consent to take an oath. I
do not believe they can legally give consent to take any oath. I
have no problem with the appointment of impuberes to non-magistarial
positions and consider such appointments to be akin to high-school
internships.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6739 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Salve Diana Moravia Aventina,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Quintus Cassius Calvus,

> As this is my third day of holding the office of Tribunis Plebis, I
hesitate
> greatly to exercise intercesio on any edict, much less so on one
made by our
> new Senior Consul.

As well you should. I do ask you re-read my petition. My petition
does not question the Senior Consul's right to appoint whom he sees
fit, nor does it question the legality of impuberes being appointed
as apparitores. What is in question is their legal standing to give
consent to take an oath of office as required by the Senior Consul's
third edict. Neither edict by itself presents a conflict, only when
combining the appointment of impuberes and the requirement to take an
oath of office is there legal conflict and opens Nova Roma to
potential litigation in macronational courts.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6740 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio
<mcserapio@y...>" <mcserapio@y...> wrote:
> AVETE DIANA MORAVIA AVENTINA ET QVINTE CASSI CALVE
> If I am wrong, I would ask Quintus Cassius Calvus to quote the
> paragraph of the Constitution (or of any other Nova Roman law) he
is
> referring to.

Salve Manius Constantinus Serapio,

Forgive me for cutting an pasting what I have already written Diana
Moravia Aventina, but it saves time at this stage.

My petition
does not question the Senior Consul's right to appoint whom he sees
fit, nor does it question the legality of impuberes being appointed
as apparitores. What is in question is their legal standing to give
consent to take an oath of office as required by the Senior Consul's
third edict. Neither edict by itself presents a conflict, only when
combining the appointment of impuberes and the requirement to take an
oath of office is there legal conflict and opens Nova Roma to
potential litigation in macronational courts.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6741 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Calvus' petition: request for clarification
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I should like to state from the outset that my
comments in this message are entirely personal and
should not be taken to reflect the view of the Senior
Consul or any member of his staff other than myself.

I think, if I have read his messages correctly, that I
and perhaps others initially misunderstood Cassius
Calvus' petition, so I should like to ask him for
clarification.

As I understand it, his argument is not that the laws
of Nova Roma forbid the appointment of minors as
accensi or scribes (a number of people including the
Senior Consul have shown that this is not the case);
rather, it is that minors are not considered by law to
be competent to swear an oath of the kind that the
Senior Consul's third edict sets out. If this is the
case, then it is clearly a matter of some concern.

However, I am unclear on what field of law we should
be considering. Is it Calvus' argument that under the
internal laws of Nova Roma minors are not legally
competent to take this oath, and that therefore their
oaths are invalid? Or is it that minors are not
legally competent to take this oath under
macronational law?

If it is the former, then I am not certain that there
is any statute or common law in Nova Roma that deals
with the legal competence of minors to swear oaths.

I suspect, however, that it is the latter that
concerns him, and if so what I wonder is this: whose
laws should we be looking at? These two people, each
living in his own country (I don't know which ones),
have taken oaths in and relating to an organization
which is incorporated in the U.S., and on an e-mail
list hosted by an organization which (I imagine) is
incorporated in the U.S. So does Calvus mean that it
is illegal under U.S. law for an organization in the
U.S. to require an oath from a minor in a different
country? Or does he mean that it is illegal in the
countries in which these people live for them to swear
an oath to anyone at all? Or to put it more simply,
who is going to prosecute whom, where, for what?

This seems to me a very complicated issue, as I
suspect most internet law is, and it can only help for
it to be explained as fully as possible.

Many thanks,

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6742 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Salve Quinte Cassi,

> What is in question is their legal standing to give consent to take an
> oath of office as required by the Senior Consul's third edict.

Minors make oaths, pledges, or agreeements all the time. Americans
beneath the age of consent "pledge allegiance to the flag" every day
in the schools. Many sign "agreements" to not drink and drive, or
not use drugs, or to serve a particular god.

All of these are legally meaningless... but harmless.

"On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my
country and to obey the Scout Law;..."

How is the above, recited by millions of teenagers, any different
from the oaths our appointees have been asked to make?

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6743 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: My support of and trust in my Accensi Junior!
Salvete Honorable Titus Arminius Genialis and Honorable Spurius
Postumius Tubertus!

I just want to publicly assure You that I selected You as my personal
assistants (Accensi Junior), because of the fact that I know that
both of You are very competent, loyal and dedicated to Nova Roma.

But I will have to stress that these positions are not "Magistrati
(see the Constitution), they are Apparitores. They are _not_ to be
compared with board members, but rather with "errand-boys" (still
very intelligent and competent)". "Errand-boys" still do a _very_
important job in many organisations and You will certainly do more
and better job than some grown ups who never have run any errands at
all! ;-)

As You know I believe that You two will raise up the Cursus Honorum
to at last achieve the Consulship and to be among the future leaders
of Nova Roma! You know that I through my attempts to support young
Nova Romans in the so called "Sodalitas Iuventutis Romanae" (SIR) has
already tried to give young citizens in Nova Roma one platform to
stand on in your development to majority. I will continue to stand at
the side of the our Roman youth even if there are some who don't want
young people involved. Please stand up proud and free as Roman
cuitizens! We need You now and will need You in the future!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6744 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Salve Illustrus Quintus Cassius Calvus!

Good, then we agree on the _important_ issue. I may appoint whomever
I wish, even impuberes! I am very glad to see that You also have
caught my point with the appointment of these two.

When it comes to the oath I think boy scouts also swear an oath
themselfs, isn't that right? Are not other oaths taken by young
Americans too?

>Salve Consul Caeso,
>
>Please re-read my petition. It is not the appointment of impuberes
>to your cohors which I found to be objectionable. The Constitution
>states you may appoint whomever you wish. The petition is based upon
>the requirment that apparitores take oaths. As impuberes the
>question involves their ability to give consent to take an oath. I
>do not believe they can legally give consent to take any oath. I
>have no problem with the appointment of impuberes to non-magistarial
>positions and consider such appointments to be akin to high-school
>internships.
>
>Vale,
>
>Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6745 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Salve

In the USA and every other county with a BOY SCOUT movement EVERY meeting is started with the boys reciting the SCOUT OATH. I do not see this N.R. oath as anything different from that . A young man or woman is asked ON THEIR HONOR to do this or that. It is not a biding legal contract but a PROMISE to behave in a certain way. Most Nation WILL allow young people to testify in court under OATH before they reach the age of majority.

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen Nova Roma


----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:41 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> On the subject of appointing impuberes I have now re-checked with
the
> Constitution and some people who ought to know. The result is that
my
> appointments of two "impuberes" were _not_ illegal or
> unconstitutional! Which doesn't come as a surprise to me.
>

Salve Consul Caeso,

Please re-read my petition. It is not the appointment of impuberes
to your cohors which I found to be objectionable. The Constitution
states you may appoint whomever you wish. The petition is based upon
the requirment that apparitores take oaths. As impuberes the
question involves their ability to give consent to take an oath. I
do not believe they can legally give consent to take any oath. I
have no problem with the appointment of impuberes to non-magistarial
positions and consider such appointments to be akin to high-school
internships.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6746 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> In the USA and every other county with a BOY SCOUT movement
> EVERY meeting is started with the boys reciting the SCOUT OATH.
> I do not see this N.R. oath as anything different from that .
> A young man or woman is asked ON THEIR HONOR to do this or that.
> It is not a biding legal contract but a PROMISE to behave in a
> certain way. Most Nation WILL allow young people to testify in
> court under OATH before they reach the age of majority.

Salve, Tiberi Galeri Pauline.

Just on a tangential note, without any real importance to the subject
whatsoever...not EVERY other country. We don't really do oaths all that
much in Sweden, and our scout movement (Yes, for both boys and girls.)
reflect this in that the closest thing to an oath is a friendly
singalong. Let's see...

"Vi äro miniorer,
vi kallas även piggelin,
vi tränar sim och skidor,
och käkar vitamin.
Vi vill lära,
jorden runt och om natur,
vara ärlig,
hjälpsam aldrig sur."

Yup, I've still got it. :)

No real "oaths", only a statement of desire to learn more about the
earth in general and nature in particular, and to act honestly in help
of our fellow men.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius. (Once swedish equivalent of Eagle scout)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6747 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates
Salve you are WRONG once an EAGLE SCOUT always an EAGLE SCOUT, from a LIFE scout

Vale
Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristoffer From
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:07 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Impuberes, _not_ illegal as they are no magistrates

Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> In the USA and every other county with a BOY SCOUT movement
> EVERY meeting is started with the boys reciting the SCOUT OATH.
> I do not see this N.R. oath as anything different from that .
> A young man or woman is asked ON THEIR HONOR to do this or that.
> It is not a biding legal contract but a PROMISE to behave in a
> certain way. Most Nation WILL allow young people to testify in
> court under OATH before they reach the age of majority.

Salve, Tiberi Galeri Pauline.

Just on a tangential note, without any real importance to the subject
whatsoever...not EVERY other country. We don't really do oaths all that
much in Sweden, and our scout movement (Yes, for both boys and girls.)
reflect this in that the closest thing to an oath is a friendly
singalong. Let's see...

"Vi äro miniorer,
vi kallas även piggelin,
vi tränar sim och skidor,
och käkar vitamin.
Vi vill lära,
jorden runt och om natur,
vara ärlig,
hjälpsam aldrig sur."

Yup, I've still got it. :)

No real "oaths", only a statement of desire to learn more about the
earth in general and nature in particular, and to act honestly in help
of our fellow men.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius. (Once swedish equivalent of Eagle scout)

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6748 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: And Finally, I'll Respond (to Tiberius Galerius)
Sp. Postumius Tubertus Tiberio Galerio Paulino Salutem Plurimam Dicit

Salve Amice,

I can, if nothing else, testify to a lot in your last message. You stated, "In the USA and every other county with a BOY SCOUT
movement EVERY meeting is started with the boys reciting the SCOUT OATH. I do not see this N.R. oath as anything different from
that . A young man or woman is asked ON THEIR HONOR to do this or that. It is not a biding legal contract but a PROMISE to behave in
a certain way. Most Nation WILL allow young people to testify in court under OATH before they reach the age of majority." In this, I
have done all three of the actions in this. I was, at one time, a Boy Scout. They repititiously began with the Pledge of Alledgance,
the Boy Scout Oath, and the Boy Scout Laws (I still know verbatim two of the three). I have taken oaths within Nova Roma as well.
And finally, I have had to testify before judges and magistrates in America on legal matters (of these times, never did it come to
issue that I am a minor). So I think it is quite obvious that it is acceptable and permissible, if not legal, for minors to swear
oaths for various reasons. On this, at least, I think we agree, though I may be wrong.

Optime Vale,

Postumius Minor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6749 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Salve,

I just asked a fellow co-worker who is active as an adult within the
BSA (Boy Scouts of America) if a minor can be part of the Boy Scouts
without parental permission? Please don't be offended, I quote, "Are
you kidding, we'd get our asses sued off."

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6750 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: And Finally, I'll Respond (to Tiberius Galerius)
Salve Spurious Postumius Tubertus Thanks for the support.

What pray tell did to brilliant people like us ever disagree on?

Vale
Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:13 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] And Finally, I'll Respond (to Tiberius Galerius)

Sp. Postumius Tubertus Tiberio Galerio Paulino Salutem Plurimam Dicit

Salve Amice,

I can, if nothing else, testify to a lot in your last message. You stated, "In the USA and every other county with a BOY SCOUT
movement EVERY meeting is started with the boys reciting the SCOUT OATH. I do not see this N.R. oath as anything different from
that . A young man or woman is asked ON THEIR HONOR to do this or that. It is not a biding legal contract but a PROMISE to behave in
a certain way. Most Nation WILL allow young people to testify in court under OATH before they reach the age of majority." In this, I
have done all three of the actions in this. I was, at one time, a Boy Scout. They repititiously began with the Pledge of Alledgance,
the Boy Scout Oath, and the Boy Scout Laws (I still know verbatim two of the three). I have taken oaths within Nova Roma as well.
And finally, I have had to testify before judges and magistrates in America on legal matters (of these times, never did it come to
issue that I am a minor). So I think it is quite obvious that it is acceptable and permissible, if not legal, for minors to swear
oaths for various reasons. On this, at least, I think we agree, though I may be wrong.

Optime Vale,

Postumius Minor


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6751 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Salve Quintus Cassias Calves and Happy New Year

That was not the question as I read the post's yes a boy need his parents permission to join but not to take an OATH. A judge cab compel anybody by LAW to testify in court minor or not and the parent will just have to sit still and watch. Besides if a minor is in Nova Roma they are here with their parents or their CONSENT or they would not be allow.

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:14 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Boy Scout Oath as an example

Salve,

I just asked a fellow co-worker who is active as an adult within the
BSA (Boy Scouts of America) if a minor can be part of the Boy Scouts
without parental permission? Please don't be offended, I quote, "Are
you kidding, we'd get our asses sued off."

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6752 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Petition to the Plebian Tribunes to exercise Intercesso
Salve Quintus Cassius Calvus,

> My petition does not question the Senior Consul's right to appoint whom
he sees
fit, nor does it question the legality of impuberes being appointed
as apparitores.

Yes, I know-- I am sorry if you thought that I misunderstood your petition!
It was early in the morning for me and I was sort of being bombarded with
emails. My comment about Senior Consul's right to appoint whom he sees fit
was referring to all of the emails that commented on the number of
appointees.

I like F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus' idea, which he stated in his email
below:
"Here in Tennessee, we have legal minors who serve in the state house as
interns. Perhaps the accensi iunores should be redesignated as interns
(without having to swear an oath) but a part of your household; a fictional
guardianship like an uncle unrelated by blood who sees to the practical
education of the minor."

I am hoping that something like the above could be a very good compromise:
no legal oaths for the young men, the Senior Consul gets to keep his team
together. Titles aren't everything in this world: sometimes we can just work
for an organisation because we love it! And the Tribunes won't have to
consider intercessio... Marcus Marcius Rex is on vacation and I would hate
for my colleague Lucius Pompeius Octavianus and I to make any important
decisions without him.


Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6753 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: The minor accensi issue
Salvete omnes.

Q. Cassius Calvus has issued a petition to the tribuni plebis. I was
a tribunus plebis until two days ago, so I though that perhaps my
personal opinion on Cassius Calvus's petition could help our brand
new tribuni in some way.

Let's get down to facts: accensi are not magistrates, and thus are
not bound by the laws governing magistrates. They do not have any
authority at all (no imperium and no ius edicendum), and the
magistrate that has appointed them is the one who is to be held
responsable for their actions. Given that, I think that minors can be
appointed scribae and accensi. Besides, it has been done before, as
someone has pointed out.

Q. Cassius Calvus says that a minor can not consent by the
magisterial oath. That might be true, but the question is: since
accensi are not magistrates, are they required to make a public oath?
The answer is no.

So how can our tribuni handle this issue? If there is any point to
discuss is whether these two young gentlemen can make an oath or not
(they *certainly* can be appointed accensi). If they can make an
oath, then there is no issue at all. If the tribuni decide that they
can not, then the oath is not valid. But that won't stop them being
accensi and working for Nova Roma if the consules so wish, because
they are not required by law to make such an oath.

That is, of course, just my opinion. It is up to our fully invested
tribuni plebis to decide. But, on a side note, I would like to add
that I am very happy to see two fine young gentlemen like Tiberius
Postumius Tubertus and Titus Arminius Genialis willing to work on
Nova Roma's behalf. I hope they are allowed to work *for* us, and I
wish them a happy and fruitful year. May their example be followed by
many, many more young citizens and non-citizens.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

CANDIDATVS·PRAETORIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6754 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Could anyone tell me....?
I regret to interrupt this endless series of oaths from different new
magistrates to ask a question for any of the wise people around Nova
Roma...
It is about Tatoo in ancient Rome. I always thought that tatoo was
something belonging to slaves, but then I came across that funny little
movie: GLADIATOR. In that film, Maximus shows a tatoo which granted his
belonging to the Army.
Well, is that possible? Were soldiers tatooed? Was it a symbol of
belonging to anyone or to anything? Is there any historical vidence of
tatoo? And the most important question of all: If so, could anyone
describe the designs?
Thank you

antonius adrianus urcitanus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6755 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Salve,

< Please don't be offended, I quote, "Are you kidding, we'd get our asses
sued off."

I agree with you there.... Oaths like boy scouts and the Pledge of
Allegiance are of a different nature. They are patriotic, which will never
get anyone in trouble with the authorities!
That said, many many groops don't go near anyone under 18, for the simple
reason that there are just way too many potential problems that could arise.
And we have Pagans in NR---lots of them. There is always the fear that
someone's parents or even that one of our governments will scream that
Pagan's are devil worshippers etc enz. I know this from experience: the
Pagan Federation's youth officer was suspended from his job and his name the
headline of many English newspapers when it was learned that in his role as
the PF's Youth Officer, he was teaching minors about Wicca.
Many people are still narrow-minded. And they can be the children or the
parents. Last week a good friend told me that his new girlfriend was 'very
supersticious' and wouldn't meet me because she is afraid of "devil
worshiping Pagans". Me???? She must have me mixed up with one of the
demons on Buffy the Vampire slayer....

Vale,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6756 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Oath as Accensus Ordinarius
Oath as Accensus Ordinarius

I, Lucius Rutilius Minervalis (Pierre-Jean Tuloup), do hereby
solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus while I
hold this office, except when such action would be illegal or
unconstitutional.

I, Lucius Rutilius Minervalis (Pierre-Jean Tuloup), further swear to
fulfill the obligations and
Responsibilities of the office of Officina Aerarii to the best of my
Abilities while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Lucius Rutilius Minervalis (Pierre-Jean Tuloup), swear to give
faithful service to my
magistrate, and not to divulge any information discussed in
confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of my
magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Accensus Ordinarius with all the
privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Ante diem III Nones Ian MMDCCLVI A. U. C. (3nd January 2003)

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6757 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Could anyone tell me....?
From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Antonius Adrianus Urcitanus. Salve.

In regards to the tatooing of Roman soldier, Ammianus Marcellanus (4th C. C.E.) mentions that recruits were marked on the hand with a small 'M' for militares. Some scholars have interpreted this as a small burn but other have indicated a tattoo. The Scythians and Sarmatians used multi-colored tattoos down their arms as early as the 4th Century B.C.E. and this practice continued until the time of Attila's Hunnic Empire in the 5th Century C.E. This information comes from Greek and Roman historians as well as archaeological evidence. The Scythian and Sarmatian khurgans (burial vaults) filled with ground water after internment of the bodies. This preserved the bodies in frozen ground water and the tattoos were still vivid when excavated in the 19th & early 20th centuries. I cannot remember the source but Mediterranean sailors from Greece and Ionia also practices tattooing during the Republican period.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6758 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Young People
Citizens of Nova Roma;

In answer to some concerns brought forward on this net, I would make the
following comments:

I served for the last two years as a Quaestor to a Praetor, at those
Magistrate's particular request. At no time in those two years was I
given a task to do, or an area to survey. I must suppose then from that
circumstance, that my worth to those Magistrates was negligable.

However, I am bouyed up by the fact that working closely with Senior
Consul Quintillianus, I have already been given several tasks to
complete and full freedom in how I shall complete them. Having spoken
with other appointees of the Senior Consul, I find much the same kind of
utilization, and so, I would ask that perhaps before the Consuls are
criticized for thier actions and appointments, perhaps we should see
what accomplishments come out of these appointments. Certainly the
early indications are much more favorable in this Consulship, than in
the past.

During my Consulship I utilzed several Accsensi, since I wanted a
variety of different ideas from those who saw Nova Roma from a different
basis. However, how many appointees it takesit really determined by
what the Magistare wants to accomplish and how we / she wants to go
about that task. If a Senior Magistrate wants to undertake his
responsibility with one Scribae and one Accensi, I consider that his
business, just as I consider that if a Senior Consul feels that he needs
26 appointees, to do what it is that he intends to do, in the way that
he intends to do it, to the ultimate benefit of Nova Roma, I am puzzled
as to why he should be chastised for it.

In the matter of young people (below the age of 18), I see no problem in
using these people as they are often eager, energetic, willing to
please, and often have some very good ideas. When I was seventeen, I
recieved a special certificate from the Local Coast Guard Commander in
my hometown to command a 26 foot pulling boat under oars or sail in the
Columbia River. As a result of that certificate issuence, my "crew"
undertook to "sound" the areas of the Columbia River secondary channel
at Portland, Ore, in the vicinity of Sand Island. Those "soundings" and
related information were printed in the official "Notice To Mariners"
for that period, and that experience led to my early rating
determination as a Naval Quartermaster. In addition, several colleagues
and myself served as Senior Crew Leaders, and Jr. Asst. Scoutmasters in
the Boy Scouts of America, in which we took charge of yonger boys, and
various administrative elements of the Boy Scout Troop, and Sea Explorer
Ship both in the local weekly meetings and in the regular monthly
outdoors activities, teaching outdoor skills, scouting policy and the
meaning of the Scout Oath and Law. Later when I served as a Skipper of
a Sea Explorer Ship (BSA), The person who was in charge of a winning
pulling crew, was my young female Senior Crew Leader, who commanded both
the pulling crew, and the competitive teams that the ship fielded in the
annual Sea Explorer Competitions at the Coast Guard Base in San
Francisco Bay, and previous to that, at the Naval Reserve Training
Center in Portland Oregon. When I was sixteen I captained a winning
Marlinspike Team, under the guidance of a 17 year-old Senior Crew
Leader. These are just a very few of the examples of young people
taking on and performing useful and necessary tasks under the cognizance
of adults in an international organization. Virtually tens of thousands
of young men and women in the United States and all over the free world,
are involved and tasked to complete significant applications for the
immediate benefit of thier unit and the ultimate benefit of a free and
honorable society. I have been privaledged to meet, and share good
times with Scouts from 17 different countries, and I have never met a
Scout from a foriegn country that I did not immediately like and
respect. True, the uniforms were different, but I found in these young
people, principles very similar to my own which were strongly at work.

The Consuls have been elected this year by the Citizens of Nova Roma,
and they have made known to Nova Roma, a list of concerns that they will
entertain during the coming year. Some of these items of concern will
be dfficult to resolve to everyone's satisfaction, as we have seen in
the past year. I would ask that rather than taking umbrage with them
for some idea of political advantage, that we assist them in every way,
in order to lay some of our stated concerns to rest in the immediate
future.

I would comment that the very few days in which the Consular Team has
served in this New Year, is really not sufficient time to judge the
effectiveness of the actions of this team and it's appointees to date.
I would ask for just a short period of patience, in order to see what
will come of this newly elected group.

In the matter of the desire of Citizens to serve in the administration
of Nova Roma, as a former Naval Officer and Volunteer Boy Scout Leader
of 20+ years, I am fully aware that the best way to determine if someone
is eager to serve, is to appoint them to a position, give them a task
and see if it works out. This procedure also has a unique additional
advantage in giving the appointed individual the sense that he / she is
needed and wanted in this micronation, and it provides a way for the
citizens to utilize thier particular skills and gifts for the benefit of
Nova Roma. Personally, I see nothing wrong in this attitude or
procedure. True there are some who for a variety of reasons will not
follow through, these people can either be given another task more
suited to thier available attributes, time, and desires, or released
with a thank you. I have made some appointments certainly which did not
work out, but the majority of them have worked out very well in spite of
past severe criticisms of my methodology and these same people have
served Nova Roma well and continue to serve her in the present day.

In the Historical Societies to which I belong, 100% of the members are
active in some aspect of the program agreed upon in addition to thier
vote. Committee Heads, reenactors, historical reconstruction, parades,
events, organizations and participation, food preparation, music and
reading presentation, model construction, and speaker arrangement, all
are areas of participaton, and virtually every member of thes clubs are
active in some instance according to thier abilities. Some of these
organizations number in the hundreds and put on two or three historical
events every year, participating in as many more. I guess that I don't
understand the emphasis on percentage of citizens to the percentage of
appointees, but in the organizations to which I belong, everyone who
wants to have a piece of the action is invited to take some position,
and for my part, were it possible, I would be pleased if every single
citizen of Nova Roma were active in some aspect of this micronation, as
an officer or worker in a Sodalitas, Academia, Provincial / Regio
activities, get-togethers, events, research. etc. I see nothig wrong
with 100% participation, and I frankly hope that I will live to see the
day when each and every citizen of Nova Roma will be actvely involved
herein.

Lastly, but certainly not in the least, our new Consuls have proven
themselves to be wise organizers, and hard workers throughout thier
tenure in Nova Roma, and both are Senators which indicates a great deal
of past effort on thier part for Nova Roma. Based on the above ideas, I
would certainly wish to give them every possible freedom and assistance
in thier new Consular Roles, in order to take advantage of thier proven
ability, thier proven desire to work in agreement with each other, and
thier obvious desire to provide each and every citizen of NR a place to
utilize their attributes to make Nova Roma stronger and more viable.

In closing this message, I would ask that we give the Consuls and
Magistrates elected for this year, by you the Citizens of Nova Roma,
some support in the way that they wish to do things, and see if thier
ideas bear fruit. For those who are normally silent on this net, I
would encourage you to make your comments and ideas known of how you
feel about these questions, in order that all might get a better idea of
what you the Citizens of Nova Roma desire. After all, it is the
Citizens of Nova Roma who call the tune as to which direction Nova Roma
shall direct her course. It is the task of the Senior Magistrates to
mind the helm to keep the ship of state on this steady course, and the
appointed / elected Junior Magistrates to keep a smooth flow of power to
the oars that propel this great ship. The Senate acts as the lookout to
deal with concerns as they approach over the horizon, and from thier
experience prepare and provide ideas to be determined by those who
provide the course of Nova Roma and the changes to that course as
necessary.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6759 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Could anyone tell me....?
In a message dated 1/3/03 11:10:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
urcitanus@... writes:


> I always thought that tatoo was
> something belonging to slaves, but then I came across that funny little
> movie: GLADIATOR. In that film, Maximus shows a tatoo which granted his
> belonging to the Army.
> Well, is that possible? Were soldiers tatooed? Was it a symbol of
> belonging to anyone or to anything? Is there any historical vidence of
> tatoo? And the most important question of all: If so, could anyone
> describe the designs?
> Thank you
>
>

Italian Romans were never tattooed during the Principate. It was considered
a barbarian custom.
Symmachiarii and Feoderati likely had tatoos but these were not native Roman
units, usually allies or mercenaries
Veg. tells that deserters were tattooed or branded during the Dominate.
The scene you quote was incorrect. I wrote several letters to Scott and
Franzoni protesting the use, however the disfigurement of the tattoo was
needed by the screenwriter to show the character's strong resolve and
revulsion against anything Roman. (I.E., the scene was BS)
Hope this helps.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6760 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Vesting of Imperium
I, Marcus Minucius Audens, Lictor of Nova Roma, do hereby witness and
acknowledge the passing of Imperium to the duly elected and appointed
Nova Roma and Provincial Magistrates for the year 2003.

I cover my head and stand with head bowed, asking that those who worship
the Gods of Rome, will recieve thier mark of approval, and I ask from my
own beliefs a blessing upon those who serve this micronation.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6761 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Salve Solaris,

>MOS: The underlying idea is that Sulla and Q. Fabius are viewing Caeso as a
political opponent < in the >form of an octopus with 21 tentacles in the
form of accensi.

>MOS: Hmm well... I do have an opinion, of course! But in the current
politics of Nova Roma, I am an outsider :o).

I think that most people know that these 3 are political opponents. As far
as tentacles go, I think that you are not looking at it from an 'outsider's
view' as you claim. If you did, you may see it as I do, since being elected
as Tribune seems to force one into an 'outside looking in' position. :

Of the 25 new accensi, some of them also hold elected positions and have
appointed assistants of their own, which makes the outer circle of the
Cohors closer to 35 (which includes citizens who swear to act in the best
interests of the elected magistrate, who in turn has sworn to act in the
best interests of the Senior Consul). Since we have maybe 50 very active
citizens on this list, this makes the outer circle of the Cohors Consulis
the majority.

My concern is that citizens will be afraid to disagree with one of the
Cohors Consulis, (a public 'alliance' as opposed to 'secret' alliances that
citizens here often insinuate about) because they are worried about making
enemies of 35 citizens at once or being virtually 'ganged up on'. The
members of the Cohors Consulis are fine well mannered people and I consider
many of them to be good friends, in NR and out. But I am still worried that
such a large Cohors Consulis will discourage citizens from speaking their
minds. This I say as a Tribune who wants to hear the opinion of all
citizen's and not just the loudest voices.

> If there's someone you're going out with whose breath stinks, you might
turn to his best friends or trusted relatives to ask them why or how and
what. If you go telling that person "hey, your breath really stinks" this
will be more offensive and less effective than trying a more diplomatic
solution.

LOL!! Certainly a big problem in Belgium where the average person brushes
their teeth less than once per day. But most times neither solution works:
better to get a new girlfriend with proper oral hygiene!

Vale,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6762 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Salvete Quinte Cassi Quiritesque

> I just asked a fellow co-worker who is active as an adult within the
> BSA (Boy Scouts of America) if a minor can be part of the Boy Scouts
> without parental permission? Please don't be offended, I quote, "Are
> you kidding, we'd get our asses sued off."

Likewise, minors are not allowed to join Nova Roma without parental
permission. You're conflating two issues here, the swearing of an oath
and the joining of an organization. The Boy Scout oath is only valid
within the context of that organization, and is not a binding contract
in the eyes of the US legal system. This is the crux of the issue at
hand: whether or not the apparitores' oath is a binding contract.

It's fairly obvious that it doesn't qualify as one outside the context
of Nova Roma. To abuse the example at hand even further, Boy Scouts
aren't going to be sued by the BSA for being less than mentally awake or
morally strong. Only in religious discrimination suits (exempli gratia:
Mormons are forbidden from swearing oaths) and other such actions in
which a person's status is a minor is unlikely to play much of a role,
is Nova Roma in danger from Her various oaths. There is no perfect
defense from this kind of thing, though we've got plenty of leg to stand
on should such a suit ever get to court--especially as minors must have
parental permission to acquire civitas.

So, the main questions are:
I. Does the oath represent a binding contract within Nova Roma?
II. Are impuberes capable of swearing such oaths?

The first question can be answered either way, depending upon which
arguments one accepts. For my part, since no specific obligation (in
the technical sense; i.e. obligatio) is specified by the oath, it seems
to me to be similar to the oaths sworn before a magistrate by parties in
legal actions that they were acting in good faith (called,
unsurprisingly, iusiuranda). This isn't exactly a binding contract.

However, in answer to question II, I must note that impuberes could
*not* swear such oaths in ancient Roma. Instead, they needed a /tutor/
to exercise /auctoritas/ on their behalf. That is, the tutor, if he
thought the oath was not to the detriment of the minor, would swear the
oath on behalf of the impubes. Usually, an impubes' tutor would be his
or her paterfamilias. If the paterfamilias couldn't act as a tutor for
some reason, then the impubes' closest adult male relative would fulfill
the role.

In Nova Roma, no law specifically prevents them from doing so, with one
rather soft exception. The last two sentences of the preamble of the
constitution say, "As the spiritual heir to the ancient Roman Republic
and Empire, Nova Roma shall endeavor to exist, in all manners practical
and acceptable, as the modern restoration of the ancient Roman Republic.
The culture, religion, and society of Nova Roma shall be patterned upon
those of ancient Rome." Indeed, as it is possible for the Senate to
allow a minor to assume a magistracy, and magistracies require an oath,
it seems that Nova Roman law leans toward allowing impuberes to swear oaths.

Therefore, it seems to me that there is no legal or constitutional
reason to veto my collega's edictum (note, though, that it is the
opinion of the tribuni plebis that matters most in this). However, it
does seem that it would be best for some adult civis to act as a tutor
for the two minor accensi in the swearing of the oath--preferably their
respective pater or mater familias if possible.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6763 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Quotation source?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Consul T. Labienus Fortunatus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

As I was sitting eagerly awaiting Cassius Calvus'
clarification of who could prosecute whom for what
where, it entered my mind to wonder about the source
of your signature quotation, "Since death alone is
certain and the time of death uncertain, what should I
do?"

I put the question to a search engine and the results,
all sites quoting it second-hand, seem to indicate
that it's from a modern Buddhist book by someone named
Batchelor. Is this correct? The reason for my doubt is
that it sounds very Chinese in formulation, like
Confucius or Ssu-ma Ch'ien, though they would perhaps
have said the last phrase twice for effect.

I hope nobody minds my posting this to the main list
rather than privately - I thought others might be
interested, and might also appreciate a distraction
from oaths and their legal ramifications.

Incidentally, you may be interested to know that sixth
and seventh of the top ten results the search engine
gave me were quotations from yourself!

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6764 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Salve Diana!
<< I think that most people know that these 3 are political opponents. As far
as tentacles go, I think that you are not looking at it from an 'outsider's
view' as you claim. If you did, you may see it as I do, since being elected
as Tribune seems to force one into an 'outside looking in' position. >>

MOS: I think I'm being a little misunderstood as to the definition of "outside". As "outside" I mean that right now I am outside every political alliance, public or secretive, and currently not occupying a politically important or influential position. As said before, I do have my opinion, but that's a different matter.

<< Of the 25 new accensi, some of them also hold elected positions and have
appointed assistants of their own, which makes the outer circle of the
Cohors closer to 35 (which includes citizens who swear to act in the best
interests of the elected magistrate, who in turn has sworn to act in the
best interests of the Senior Consul). Since we have maybe 50 very active
citizens on this list, this makes the outer circle of the Cohors Consulis
the majority.

My concern is that citizens will be afraid to disagree with one of the
Cohors Consulis, (a public 'alliance' as opposed to 'secret' alliances that
citizens here often insinuate about) because they are worried about making
enemies of 35 citizens at once or being virtually 'ganged up on'. The
members of the Cohors Consulis are fine well mannered people and I consider
many of them to be good friends, in NR and out. But I am still worried that
such a large Cohors Consulis will discourage citizens from speaking their
minds. This I say as a Tribune who wants to hear the opinion of all
citizen's and not just the loudest voices. >>

MOS: On the contrary, I know from personal experience that the feeling of being cornered will only draw more people into the arena. What would people have to fear? Let Caeso and his gargantuan administration prove how they handle debates and criticism. Should they employ machinations that run countrary to the letter of law, or worse, spirit of freedom of opinion, I will be among the first to criticise them (hence, "outsider"). I have enough personal trust in the abilities and capabilities of Caeso and the people he's surrounding himself with that everything will run fine.

Also think of the fact that the people in his staff have not been born without critical facilities. We have both personally met Saturninus, Scipio and Serapio. I can't imagine that these people would tolerate corruption. As I've said before: let's see how everything works. But of course it's your duty to observe more closely and attentively, and I can only admire that. I might do the same as you, in your position.

<< LOL!! Certainly a big problem in Belgium where the average person brushes
their teeth less than once per day. But most times neither solution works:
better to get a new girlfriend with proper oral hygiene! >>

MOS: I wasn't speaking from personal experience, in case you were wondering :o). I didn't know that oral hygiene was that big an issue here in Belgium... Perhaps it is. Well, you *do* have an outsider's perspective here in our country, and this can be refreshing! ;o).

Vale bene!
M. Octavius Solaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6765 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Quotation source?
Salve Aule Apolloni si vales valeo

> As I was sitting eagerly awaiting Cassius Calvus'
> clarification of who could prosecute whom for what
> where, it entered my mind to wonder about the source
> of your signature quotation, "Since death alone is
> certain and the time of death uncertain, what should I
> do?"

I got it third-hand myself. A poster to the Stoics Yahoo list, who is
also a fan of Stephen Batchelor's brand of agnostic Buddhism, used it in
a message once. It seemed to be such a nicely Stoic statement that I
borrowed it. (I am a practicing Stoic.) It is, to my knowledge,
attributed by Batchelor to an anonymous Tibetan monk. I've been meaning
to add the citation to my .sig file for a while now, but just haven't
gotten 'round to it.

> The reason for my doubt is that it sounds very Chinese in formulation,
> like Confucius or Ssu-ma Ch'ien, though they would perhaps have said
> the last phrase twice for effect.

Yes. It actually struck me as being a rather universal sentiment, and
the line made me think of Kung Fu Tse as well. Of course, the structure
could very well be an invention of the translator.

> I hope nobody minds my posting this to the main list
> rather than privately - I thought others might be
> interested, and might also appreciate a distraction
> from oaths and their legal ramifications.

I know I do. I greatly enjoy comparative philosophy, but get very
little time to indulge in its study these days.

> Incidentally, you may be interested to know that sixth
> and seventh of the top ten results the search engine
> gave me were quotations from yourself!

LOL My fifteen minutes, I suppose.

Vale optime
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6766 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Tribune LPO comments on the request of intercessio
Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Salvete omnes qurites.
Regarding Q. Cassius Calvus' petition to exercisse intercessio Edictum Consulare CFQ II de Nominationibus in Cohorte Consulis CFQ (The Second Consular edict CFQ II on the appointments in the Cohors
Consulis CFQ), I must express that intercessio must be avoided as much as possible. It should be used only when no alternative is left. Otherwise it would lead to abuse of power.
In second place solid arguments should be given for a request of intercessio. In this case, instead, they seem to be just hypothetical.
Q. Cassius Calvus wrote : "... It is my duty to protect the Senate and People of Nova Roma from
potential litigation in macronational courts of law. Requiring
oaths and appointment of minors to positions of Apparitores as
defined in the Constitution of Nova Roma Article IV, section 9.
leaves Nova Roma vulnerable to potential litigation in macronational
courts of law... "
I consider a hypothetical argument like this one is not enough to exercise intercessio.Thus, I consider his request too excesive.
Besides, apparitores are asistants to magistrates. So these last ones are responsibles, not the first ones.Responsibility cannot be delegated. So I do not think that minors taking an oath as apparitores would ever arise any litigation.
I do not have a single piece of objective information to exercise intercessio. I cannot exercise it based only on hypothetical reasoning.
By the way, the text of oath for apparitores have nothing wrong, at least in my point of view. So I don't think Q.Cassius Calvus' arguments would ever become true.
Given the reasons above I cannot accept Q. Cassius Calvus' request



Scribebam Bonariæ a.d. III Non. Ian. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (January the third 2756 a.u.c.)

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6767 From: Rachel Dugdale Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Oath for Apparitoria
I, Gaia Fabia Livia do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in
the best interests of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus while
I hold this office, except when such action would be
illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Gaia Fabia Livia further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of
Accensus Ordinarius to the best of my abilities while
following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Gaia Fabia Livia swear to give faithful service to
my magistrate, and not to divulge any information
discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve
solely at the discretion of my magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people
and by their will and favor, do I accept the position
of Accensus Ordinarius with all the privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6768 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Lacus Magni for OHIO STATE BUCKEYES
Go BUCKEYES!



Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6769 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Calvus' petition: request for clarification
Salve Cordus,


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
<major snippage>

> This seems to me a very complicated issue, as I
> suspect most internet law is, and it can only help for
> it to be explained as fully as possible.

Since Senator Lucius Pompeius Octavianus acting in his office of
Tribune has ruled against my petition, Tribune Diana Moravia Aventina
has stated her reluctance to make a decision with the absence of
Tribune Marcus Marcius Rex, it is a moot point. I do hope that
Senator Lucius Pompeius Octavianus opinion that the potential
exposure to litigation is so remote as to be negligible is correct.

Vale,

Q Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6770 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Tribune LPO comments on the request of intercessio
Salve Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

> So I don't think Q.Cassius Calvus' arguments would ever become
true.
> Given the reasons above I cannot accept Q. Cassius Calvus' request

I apologize for the major snippage of your ruling. Thank you for
taking the time to consider my petition and make a ruling upon it. I
do not take your denial of my petition personally and harbor no ill
will towards anyone no matter which side of this debate they
represented. I hope that you are indeed correct that the possibility
of macronational civil litigation would never come true.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6771 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Youth Group
We need a group to indoctrinate our youth in the mos maiourum. Something like the cult of mithras, where the child moves thru dfferent levels of accomplishment, from crow to dog to whatever. Like the boy scouts or brownies.







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6772 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Oath as an example
Salve Diana Moravia Aventina

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> parents. Last week a good friend told me that his new girlfriend
was 'very
> supersticious' and wouldn't meet me because she is afraid of "devil
> worshiping Pagans". Me???? She must have me mixed up with one of
the
> demons on Buffy the Vampire slayer....

Well you do bear a slight resemblence to Drusilla, at least when she
isn't feeding. Fortunately for Nova Roma you don't think like
Drusilla <GRIN> Big Buffy fan here.

Vale

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6773 From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Youth Group
mos maiorum







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 7:04 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Youth Group


We need a group to indoctrinate our youth in the mos maiourum. Something like the cult of mithras, where the child moves thru dfferent levels of accomplishment, from crow to dog to whatever. Like the boy scouts or brownies.







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6774 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Century Points (A Reply to L. Cornelius)
Sp. Postumius Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete,

Earlier, the Consular Senator Lucius Cornelius ascribed:

"I disagree if they all get century points, and that is a form of payment."

Which was a response to a message by the citizen Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus -- Their name and number (call them Accensi,
little elves or "unappointed friends who came to help") is, in my humble opinion, a matter of appreciation and secondary debate.

To the statement of Senator Cornelius, I feel that if he feels that magistrates should be limited on the amount of century points
that may be handed out, perhaps he should take that up with a consul, and not complain to the citizens about what he feels is
incorrect. Too, I must say, that if this is how he feels about century points, perhaps he would be content with a system for the
buying and selling of century points. In my view, this is how he sees what the consul Quintillianus has done: sold century points. I
highly disagree. I fully intend to perform my duties as an Accensus to this Consul, a scribe to the Curator Araneum, and as
Retiarius for my Provincia (for which office, I might add, I recieve _no_ century points). And if this Senator would like to see my
century points removed for my services as Scribe and Accensus, I would be happy to write a check for my points to the Winds and the
Waters. I neither need them (as I cannot vote at the moment, and when I may, this will be a former office, which will then entail no
points, thereby not helping the weight of my vote in the least), nor particularly care for them at the moment. What will I do with
them when I can use them? I won't have them!

In that same response, Senator Cornelius also stated, "This "consilium" is more like an army of clients."

So now I'm a client, am I? To be quite honest, I don't see why Quintillianus would need such an army. And I don't see why any
citizen of Nova Roma would need a patron. But since I'm now a client, perhaps the Senator Cornelius might be so kind as to tell me
how I might repay my 'patron' Quintillianus when we all go to the polls. I know as well as you do that my words don't count for
much, so how might I repay my patron? I have no means now, nor will I ever.

I also have to respond to a question by this same Senator. The question is, "Now, since this is a "consilium" and not a government,
should these individuals be awarded with century points?"

If it needs to be said like that, perhaps our members of the Senate should not recieve century points for being Senators. If this is
how it is seen, then removing points for Senators would only be proper.

Senator Cornelius also said that he held the members of his staff in confidence. Perhaps I misread something, but I got the
impression that he was implying that Quintillianus does not trust his staff members nor hold them in confidence. In that statement,
perhaps he nullified his own statement about cheapening the office of the scribe. In fact, as I understood it, he said that scribes
and accensi need not be trusted. Great way to encourage citizens to get involved in government by assisting magistrates as scribes.

The comment made about supervision too was unnecessary. True, it would be easier to supervise four accensi than twenty-six, but note
that in the edict appointing the accensi, he made note of who supervised who. He really needs only supervise a handful of the
twenty-six. This handful manages the rest of the accensi. Read the edict.

In another message, the same Senator commented, "But we still have not been given a satisfactory answer to employ over 10% of the
active Nova Roman population as part of your staff."

To this, I must state that, during your tenure as consul and during your other tenures in public office, we have not been given a
satisfactory answer to some of your actions. Would you like us to go back and ask you to answer for everything _you've_ done? I
wouldn't like asking, and I don't appreciate your asking this of someone. If the citizens truly wanted to know, perhaps they all
would have asked. I know the Consul would ultimately respond to the demands of the People as a whole. If the people did not trust
him, Quintillianus would not be in the consular seat today.

Listed were the names of all the appointed accensi. Some were listed in duplicate, but in all, there were only twenty-three
individuals there in my count, not twenty-six. I counted it five times myself, and had a few others count as well. Perhaps you may
want to check your numbers.

I have nothing else to say about this, other than my call to the citizens for their positions on this, before it becomes the
position of the minority Sulla always talks about, and not the silent majority.


Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6775 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)
In a message dated 1/3/03 6:31:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, postumius@...
writes:
> I fully intend to perform my duties as an Accensus to this Consul, a scribe
> to the Curator Araneum, and as
> Retiarius for my Provincia (for which office, I might add, I recieve _no_
> century points). And if this Senator would like to see my
> century points removed for my services as Scribe and Accensus, I would be
> happy to write a check for my points to the Winds and the
> Waters. I neither need them (as I cannot vote at the moment, and when I
> may, this will be a former office, which will then entail no
> points, thereby not helping the weight of my vote in the least), nor
> particularly care for them at the moment. What will I do with
> them when I can use them? I won't have them!
>
>

Good, you are a shining example to the work ethic of Nova Roman citizens.
Hard work with no reward. Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
same, I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth Fabius created.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6776 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-03
Subject: Re: Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)
Salve,

> Good, you are a shining example to the work ethic of Nova Roman citizens.
> Hard work with no reward. Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
> same, I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth Fabius created.

Thank you. I guess that means I've done something right by you for a change! Nice to know that happens once in a while.

Vale,

Postumius Minor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6777 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Salvete,

The new year has passed and I discover I have made a glaring omission
in not marking a singular event. Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, the
most Roman of all Nova Romans, has quietly left the office of censor
with the swearing in of Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

In a quiet forthright manner, Lucius Equitius did great honor to this
office and to Nova Roma. He has more determination than anyone else
in our micronation, and rose to the office of censor after events
that would have made lesser men run for the door. While we have had
our differences, he will always have my admiration.

Characteristically, he quietly retired from public office at the end
of his term with just a brief message. Though he will still be active
as Augur, pontiff and Senator I don't think most Nova Romans realize
the loss to the Republic when his term ended, or the quality of the
service done on their behalf. Censor is the the most difficult job by
far in Nova Roma and is done away from the sight of the crowds. No
man has done greater honor to this position than he.

Gratias tibi ago, Luci Equiti Cincinnate. Ave!

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6778 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salve

We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would anybody object, if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff a list of citizens names and Birth DAYS AND MONTHS but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are. We just want to know when your birthday is for the Eagle.


Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Fortunes Favet Fortibus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6779 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Oath of Office
I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus while I hold this office,
except when such action would be illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and Responsibilities of the office of Accensa
Ordinaria to the best of my Abilities while following the Roman
virtues and ideals.

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund) swear to give faithful
service to my magistrate, and not to divulge any information
discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the
discretion of my magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Accensa Ordinaria with all the
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
--


Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6780 From: Krysialtemus@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Lacus Magni for OHIO STATE BUCKEYES
From one die-hard Penn State fan: Way to go Ohio State & Big 10!!!!!!!!!!Dalmatica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6781 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: OATH OF OFFICE ACCENSA MAGNA CONSULARA
P. Cornelia Strabo Senatus Populesque Nova Roma S.P.D.

I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Susan Loreen Brett, do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honour of Nova Roma and to act always in the best
interests of the Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus while I hold
this office, except where such action is illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Susan Loreen Brett, further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the position of
Accensa Magna Consulara to the best of my ability while following the
Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Susan Loreen Brett, swear to give faithful
service and not to divulge any information discussed in confidence. I
understand that I serve as Accensa soley at the discretion of Caeso
Fabius Quintilianus.

On my honour as a citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome, and by their will and favour, do I accept
the position of Accensa Magna Consulara Caeso Fabius Quintilianus,
with all the privileges, obligations and responsibilities attendant
hereto.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6782 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Cohors Consulis
On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 04:31 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> My concern is that citizens will be afraid to disagree with one of the
> Cohors Consulis, (a public 'alliance' as opposed to 'secret' alliances
> that
> citizens here often insinuate about) because they are worried about
> making
> enemies of 35 citizens at once or being virtually 'ganged up on'.

Diana Moravia's concern is a valid one, yet I do not believe that NR's
citizens are such sheep. Indeed, they seem in general a rather
independent-minded bunch. I have frequently found myself in the
position of being politically opposed to someone in one debate who had
shared the same view with me in the last one. I serve on Caeso Fabius'
staff, yet I have not always voted with him in the Senate, nor do I
plan to do so in the year ahead.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6783 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Q. Cassius' reply
On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 04:31 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> I apologize for the major snippage of your ruling. Thank you for
> taking the time to consider my petition and make a ruling upon it. I
> do not take your denial of my petition personally and harbor no ill
> will towards anyone no matter which side of this debate they
> represented. I hope that you are indeed correct that the possibility
> of macronational civil litigation would never come true.
>

Though we hold opposite views on this issue, Quintus Cassius, I wish to
express my admiration for your thoughtful presentation of your concerns
and your gracious reply.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6784 From: Patricia Cassia Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 04:31 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> In a quiet forthright manner, Lucius Equitius did great honor to this
> office and to Nova Roma. He has more determination than anyone else
> in our micronation, and rose to the office of censor after events
> that would have made lesser men run for the door. While we have had
> our differences, he will always have my admiration.

Decius Iunius has deftly expressed a most honorable sentiment, and I
will add my thanks and respect for Lucius Equitius' hard work,
intelligence and good humor.


-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6785 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salve Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

> We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would anybody object,
if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff a list of citizens names and
Birth DAYS AND MONTHS but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are.
We just want to know when your birthday is for the Eagle.

I have no objection to the day and month of my birthday being in the
Eagle. Oct 1 to be exact. As Curator Differum, according to the Lex
Cornelia de Privatis Rebus, you should have access to that
information anyway. My own personal advice is to ask the people
who's birthdays would be posted in the Eagle if it's ok before going
to print.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6786 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salve Curator Differium Pauline,

> We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would anybody object, if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff a list of citizens names and
Birth DAYS AND
> MONTHS but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are. We just want to know when your birthday is for the Eagle.

I don't know if I have the competance to answer this (or to give such information), but I don't particularly care if the Citizens
know my date of birth. It's not like I'll be in need of changing it any time soon. Pr. Non. Iun. MMDCCXXXIX.

As for the Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus and the Lex Vedia de Privatis Rebus, you are entitled to the information, but only if the
Censores deem it appropriate. But then again, they just might give it to you. I'm not a Censor, so I couldn't know. It's almost a
coin toss.

Optime Vale,

Sp. Postumius,

Scriba of the Curator Pius
Accensus of the Consul Quintillianus
Retiarius of the Propraetor Bianchius
Citizen of the Fatherland Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6787 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: ELECTION CALL FOR ONE CANDIDATE FOR THE QUAESTORSHIP
4th of January 2756 A.U.C.

Civibus Novae Romae Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Consul S.P.D.

I hereby announce that those Citizens who want to candidate for the
eigth Quaestorship of MMDCCLVI (2756) may declare their candidacies,
beginning now, by posting to the mailing lists
nova-roma@yahoogroups.com or novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com.The
deadline for declaring candidacy is 18.01 AM, Roman Time Saturday
January the 11th.

The following magistrate will be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa:

QUAESTOR - 1 positions available.

Candidates for this positions must have been a citizen of Nova Roma
for six full months before 31st of January 2003 and must have been
born on or before 31st of January 1982. (Assuming that the auscipes
will allow us to have elections during January).

The time when the election will be organised will be published separately.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6788 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salvete,
Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out
that my Birthday is March 28th, but I can't speak for
everyone. There are sites that use Date of Birth as
verifing information, and if a citizen has some sort
of account at one of these sites it could aid in
idenity theft. Some are more concerned about this than
others, so I think it would be better if you requested
that citizens who wish to have thier Birthday included
send the information to the Eagle themselves.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would
> anybody object, if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff
> a list of citizens names and Birth DAYS AND MONTHS
> but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are. We
> just want to know when your birthday is for the
> Eagle.
>
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum
> Fortunes Favet Fortibus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6789 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salve L. Sicinius Drusus is right. If you would like your name listed on the Birthday roster in the January Eagle please send me an E-mail today.

Vale

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors

Salvete,
Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out
that my Birthday is March 28th, but I can't speak for
everyone. There are sites that use Date of Birth as
verifing information, and if a citizen has some sort
of account at one of these sites it could aid in
idenity theft. Some are more concerned about this than
others, so I think it would be better if you requested
that citizens who wish to have thier Birthday included
send the information to the Eagle themselves.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would
> anybody object, if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff
> a list of citizens names and Birth DAYS AND MONTHS
> but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are. We
> just want to know when your birthday is for the
> Eagle.
>
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum
> Fortunes Favet Fortibus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6790 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
In a message dated 1/4/03 7:54:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, richmal@...
writes:


> I have no objection to the day and month of my birthday being in the
> Eagle. Oct 1 to be exact

Really? Mine as well...

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6791 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Salvete

> Gratias tibi ago, Luci Equiti Cincinnate. Ave!

Iterum in me! L Equitius has done exemplary work for the Res Publica,
and we have often come to see the wisdom of ideas that he presented well
before they were popular. I wish him luck in all his endeavors, knowing
he won't need it.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6792 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete,
> Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out
> that my Birthday is March 28th, but I can't speak for
> everyone. There are sites that use Date of Birth as
> verifing information, and if a citizen has some sort
> of account at one of these sites it could aid in
> idenity theft. Some are more concerned about this than
> others, so I think it would be better if you requested
> that citizens who wish to have thier Birthday included
> send the information to the Eagle themselves.

Salve,

Perhaps then just the month of the citizen's birthday could be
listed? All the birthdays of the month could be listed without the
day of birth.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6793 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Thank You Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Salve Illustrus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus!

As the Consul holding the fasces I want to publicly thank You for
your formidable work for Nova Roma and especially your Censorship the
two last years.

In the name of the Roman people, the Senate and the whole Res
Publica, thank You very much!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6794 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
---Salvete Omnes:

I like this idea of Senator Palladius. I agree with his
rationale: 'safe' celebration. Too much on line and elsewhere is
linked to a person's day/year of birth.

Po


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius <bcatfd@t...>"
<bcatfd@t...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete,
> > Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out
> > that my Birthday is March 28th, but I can't speak for
> > everyone. There are sites that use Date of Birth as
> > verifing information, and if a citizen has some sort
> > of account at one of these sites it could aid in
> > idenity theft. Some are more concerned about this than
> > others, so I think it would be better if you requested
> > that citizens who wish to have thier Birthday included
> > send the information to the Eagle themselves.
>
> Salve,
>
> Perhaps then just the month of the citizen's birthday could be
> listed? All the birthdays of the month could be listed without the
> day of birth.
>
> Vale,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6795 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
P. Cornelia Omnibus:

I am pleased with the legal manner in which the recent petition has
been dealt with my Lucius Pompeius Tribunus.

We all 'hesitate' to deal with these matters (trust me, I know :)),
but nonetheless the tribs have been petitioned, and the citizen
issuing the petition is entitled to a duly lawful and official answer
by the Tribunes. You have replied in a lawful, proper and objective
manner. I commend you for formally answering Calvus as opposed to
offering an unofficial and hypothetical opinion.

Whether the petition was issued publicly or privately is beside the
point, and herein we are discussing 'etiquette' and not law.

As for your rationale in this situation, I pretty much agree with
you, Luci Pompei, although we need to be wary of potential
situations, in any case. Some are worse than others in their
possibility of setting undesirable precedents.

Impuberes, as I see it, are in Nova Roma with their parents written
position. That they hold an advisory position does not pose any legal
threat to Nova Roma.

I nonetheless thank Cassius Calvus for his diligence and concern in
this area.

I also thank Caeso Fabius Consul for providing those under 18 who
have shown responsibility and earnestness in working with him, the
opportunity to serve in an officially recognized capacity.


No harm, no foul.

Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6796 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
I don't mind....use my birthday....but everyone seems to be overlooking the real important birthday question. If we give you are birthdays...do we get presents from everyone?!




Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6797 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> scripsit:
> Salvete,
> Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out that my Birthday
is March 28th, but I can't speak for everyone.

Say! Mine's March 27. I have never worried about people knowing my
age, so I don't mind 'em knowing my birthday.

What a nice idea to recognise cives' birthdays in this manner!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Scriba Censoris, MMDCCLVI
Accensa Senior Tertia, Cohors Consularis, MMDCCLVI
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae, MMDCCLVI
Curatrix Araneum,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.cynico.net
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6798 From: aneaapollonia@aol.com Date: 2003-01-04
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
Salve,
Wouldnt it be preferrable to keep the Birthday wishes in the Personal section
of The Eagle? Leaving it to the families and friends of those celebrating
their birthday the responsibility of extending their wishes. I would rather
it be a volluntary thing, I really loathe having personal information like
that distributed without my say, so I can only imagine how other people might
feel about the issue.

Vale,
I.A.A.Musa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6799 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: birthday information
Salvete omnes:

Back to what Senator Drusus brought up, the question of identity theft.

The magistrates, as you know, have to state their names when they do
oath of office, and now we'd post their birthdays. Professionals could have
a field day with that information. I think better we limit it to
birthmonths only. Identity theft is a real concern.

Galerius Peregrinator.



_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6800 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Any German speakers care to answer this?
Salvete,

The following was left in the chatroom today. If anyone fluent in
German would care to answer it...

The address is a hotmail address, Yahoo will cut that portio out of
the message below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"If anyone can explain the real sense of this organisation and answer
some of my questions in GERMAN, please send a short mail to
versace81@... - Thanks"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6801 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: birthday information
Salve
I sent am e-mail to the Censors asking for just a list of citizens born in a given month no days or year. We will see what that request brings. I do not belittle this concern but I am beginning to think that what should be easy (a birthday list) is the hardest to get done in NR . your next post came as I was typing this. yes the January issue is done except for a few things but that just means YOUR Feb article will be OUTSTANDING

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 1:24 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] birthday information



Salvete omnes:

Back to what Senator Drusus brought up, the question of identity theft.

The magistrates, as you know, have to state their names when they do
oath of office, and now we'd post their birthdays. Professionals could have
a field day with that information. I think better we limit it to
birthmonths only. Identity theft is a real concern.

Galerius Peregrinator.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6802 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: "It wasn't the end or even the beginning of the end it was the end
Salve Nova Roman:

Well that time has come and gone . The end of the January issue of the Eagle is at hand ( a touch here a touch there. birthday list and few odds and ends. If you are working on something for the February Issue the deadline is Jan. 27 NO EXCEPTIONS ( but thanks for asking.) January goes to printer on T/W day If you did not do something for January you can write for the next issue. BIGGER & BETTER. if you build it they will come. We have eleven more issues keep sending you stuff. THANKS

As a final note it seems that I have been SPELLING my title incorrectly MY APOLOIGIES

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor
Fortuna Favet Fortibus




----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors

Salvete,
Personally I'm not worried if Nova Romans find out
that my Birthday is March 28th, but I can't speak for
everyone. There are sites that use Date of Birth as
verifing information, and if a citizen has some sort
of account at one of these sites it could aid in
idenity theft. Some are more concerned about this than
others, so I think it would be better if you requested
that citizens who wish to have thier Birthday included
send the information to the Eagle themselves.

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> We do not want to do ANYTHING illegal! But would
> anybody object, if the Censors gave the Eagle Staff
> a list of citizens names and Birth DAYS AND MONTHS
> but NOT YEARS we do not care how old you are. We
> just want to know when your birthday is for the
> Eagle.
>
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum
> Fortunes Favet Fortibus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6803 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Appointment of Provincial Scribe.
Ex Officio Propraetoris Britanniae.



Edictum Propraetoricium concerning the provincial administration of Britannia.



I. Citizen Equestria Iunia Laeca is hereby appointed Scriba Propraetoris.



II. This edictum becomes effective immediately.



Given on January 5th, in the year of the consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintillianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.



Decimus Iunius Silanus

Propraetor Britanniae.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6804 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Thankyou Equestria!
Salvete,

I wish to thank Equestria Iunia Laeca who has ageed to assist me with establishing a provincial website for provincia Britannia.

Congratulations on your appointment as provincial scribe.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6805 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Any German speakers care to answer this?
Salve Palladius,

> The following was left in the chatroom today. If anyone fluent in
< German would care to answer it...

>"If anyone can explain the real sense of this organisation and answer
< some of my questions in GERMAN, please send a short mail to
< versace81@... - Thanks"

Due to the hard work of our translators, the entire NR website is online and
in German. He should have just read the website. I'm sure that he would have
found all of the answers to his questions there.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6806 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Oath of office as Rogator
Aulus Hirtius Helveticus Quiritibus S.P.D.

After my safe return from my christmas holiday I am
now back online and able to start my duties as
Rogator.

****

I, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus (Michael Gisiger), do
hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova
Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the
people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Aulus Hirtius
Helveticus
(Michael Gisiger), swear to honor the Gods and
Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue
the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus (Michael Gisiger),
swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the
State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in
a way that would threaten its status as the State
Religion.

I, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus (Michael Gisiger),
swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova
Roma.

I, Aulus Hirtius Helveticus (Michael Gisiger),
further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Rogator to the best
of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people
and by their will and favor, do I accept the position
of Rogator and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

In the province of Germania, Nonus Ianuarias MMDCCLVI
a.u.c. (January, 5th 2003)

****

Curate ut valeatis,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6807 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Let's get organised guys....
Salvete,

I've just found the following list on Yahoogroups, which recieved its last
message in December 2002 and so is still active:
ComitiaPlebisTributa · A list for the Plebians of Nova Roma moderated by the
Tribunes of the People
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/
Post message:ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
I have just subscribed and now it needs to be approved by the moderator. But
shouldn't I be one of the moderators? I am after all the Senior Tribunis
Plebis.

On January 3rd, former Tribune Claudius Salix Davianus was kind enough to
inform me that there is a list that the Tribunes had been using to discuss
things amongst themselves: CollegiumTribunicium@yahoogroups.com .
I tried to subscribe to the list, but it bounced (being by invitation only).
Same comments as above.

Realizing that I am coming across as a Bit_ _ , can we maybe clean up our
administrative act? I am not clairvoyant and so did not know that we had the
above 2 lists. It would be much easier for the new magistrates to do their
jobs if we have all of the information that is available.

Being rather 'strong' with organising things, I am already in the process of
putting together a 'handbook' so that future Tribunes can get all of the
available information at once instead of getting bits and pieces in January
after their term has already began.

I am wondering if this administrative sloppiness is the same across the
board in Nova Roma.

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6808 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
Salve Diana

IT IS WORSE!!!!!!! the Eagle had nothing, except the institutional memory of three past editors. I was well into the January issue before I had EVEN seen an old issue. (Thanks to Senator Audens I aslo had a offerto see the others ) In the next month or two a web version of the Eagle will be up and running and the whole edifice will be turned over to my successor. BTW you article look great in the January Eagle thanks.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:51 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Let's get organized guys....

Salvete,

I've just found the following list on Yahoogroups, which received its last
message in December 2002 and so is still active:
ComitiaPlebisTributa · A list for the Plebians of Nova Roma moderated by the
Tribunes of the People
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/
Post message:ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
I have just subscribed and now it needs to be approved by the moderator. But
shouldn't I be one of the moderators? I am after all the Senior Tribunis
Plebis.

On January 3rd, former Tribune Claudius Salix Davianus was kind enough to
inform me that there is a list that the Tribunes had been using to discuss
things amongst themselves: CollegiumTribunicium@yahoogroups.com .
I tried to subscribe to the list, but it bounced (being by invitation only).
Same comments as above.

Realizing that I am coming across as a Bit_ _ , can we maybe clean up our
administrative act? I am not clairvoyant and so did not know that we had the
above 2 lists. It would be much easier for the new magistrates to do their
jobs if we have all of the information that is available.

Being rather 'strong' with organising things, I am already in the process of
putting together a 'handbook' so that future Tribunes can get all of the
available information at once instead of getting bits and pieces in January
after their term has already began.

I am wondering if this administrative sloppiness is the same across the
board in Nova Roma.

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6809 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Official email address for Tribunes
Salvete,

Anyone wishing to officially address Nova Roma's 3 Tribunes can do so by
emailing
Tribunes@yahoogroups.com

Please include that address in cc, when you are 'officially' addressing the
Tribunes via the main list or any other list.
This will enable us:
a) to see your email immediately rather than stumbling across it between
mainlist emails (which as everyone knows can be 75 per day).
b) to have your email as an official record for our archives.

The archives of the Tribunes list are not open to the public and this list
is closed (for Tribunes only).

Valete,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6810 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
In a message dated 1/5/2003 8:49:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
diana@... writes:

> ComitiaPlebisTributa · A list for the Plebians of Nova Roma moderated by the
> Tribunes of the People

I just signed up. Waiting approval.

G. Modius Athanasius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6811 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Salve Pompeia Cornelia :

> We all 'hesitate' to deal with these matters (trust me, I know :)),
<but nonetheless the tribs have been petitioned, and the citizen
<issuing the petition is entitled to a duly lawful and official answer
<by the Tribunes. You have replied in a lawful, proper and objective
<manner. I commend you for formally answering Calvus as opposed to
<offering an unofficial and hypothetical opinion.

If you are referring to me, I'm sorry for my silence. I received a nasty
head injury on New Year's Eve and I am avoiding sending emails to the
mainlist unless I am feeling 100%. Yesterday I was a bit incoherent (or more
so than usual!). But Lucius Pompeius Octavianus and I discussed the
situation and then he posted his response to the mainlist. I didn't think an
official response from me was necessary, since his 'no' to an intercessio
pretty much closes the subject (our third Tribune being away on vacation).

Anyway, sorry again if I failed in my duties!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6812 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organised guys....
Salvete Quirites,

Diana Moravia has bought up a long standing problem,
the mailing lists associated with Nova Roma are rather
chaotic. I Just did a search for "Nova Roma" on
yahoogroups and came up with 73 groups, one of them
for a RPG that isn't connected with Nova Roma. The
Search didn't return the "Back Alley" since Nova Roma
isn't mentioned in it's title or description, so there
may be more than 73 Nova Roma related groups on
yahoogroups.

Topica.com also has mail lists, so there may be some
Nova Roma related lists there, or on some other server
that I'm not aware of.

This situation is making it hard for citizens to keep
up with events in Nova Roma, and it's likely
increasing the volume of mail on this list by making
it hard for citizens to find a list that is better
suited for a posting.

Quirites, If you have started a Nova Roma related list
that has outlived it's usefulness please delete it so
others will be easier to find. I intend to check my
lists as soon as I finish this post.

We also need to have a page on the Nova Roma site that
has links to some of these lists, such as Provincial
mail lists.


--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I've just found the following list on Yahoogroups,
> which recieved its last
> message in December 2002 and so is still active:
> ComitiaPlebisTributa � A list for the Plebians of
> Nova Roma moderated by the
> Tribunes of the People
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/
> Post message:ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
> I have just subscribed and now it needs to be
> approved by the moderator. But
> shouldn't I be one of the moderators? I am after all
> the Senior Tribunis
> Plebis.
>
> On January 3rd, former Tribune Claudius Salix
> Davianus was kind enough to
> inform me that there is a list that the Tribunes had
> been using to discuss
> things amongst themselves:
> CollegiumTribunicium@yahoogroups.com .
> I tried to subscribe to the list, but it bounced
> (being by invitation only).
> Same comments as above.
>
> Realizing that I am coming across as a Bit_ _ , can
> we maybe clean up our
> administrative act? I am not clairvoyant and so did
> not know that we had the
> above 2 lists. It would be much easier for the new
> magistrates to do their
> jobs if we have all of the information that is
> available.
>
> Being rather 'strong' with organising things, I am
> already in the process of
> putting together a 'handbook' so that future
> Tribunes can get all of the
> available information at once instead of getting
> bits and pieces in January
> after their term has already began.
>
> I am wondering if this administrative sloppiness is
> the same across the
> board in Nova Roma.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
> Tribunis Plebis
>
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6813 From: Barry Smith Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
I have no objections. Perhaps we can even develop a line of NR greeting
cards to include various NR holidays, birthdays, etc.

Caius Titinius Varus

Integrity is Paramount





>From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:45:18 -0500
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6814 From: morsepone7 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: newsletter -- have editor yet? or backissues?
dear Nova Roma, jan4, 2003:
I sent you a check in Summer 2002, and it was not yet
cashed, because of your lack of an editor as mentioned
on the website. do you have any back issues that I can
buy with that check? (MJ COSTA).

Thank you, pax.

Tiberias Calpurnians Rex
(MJ COSTA), morsepone7@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6815 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re. Let's get organized guys...
Salvete,

It seems to me that the difficulty with Nova Roma lists is not that there are
too many, but rather that there is no central listing of them on the NR
website.

Not all discussions can happen on the Main List these days. We've grown to
the point where there are many specialized topics of interest that would only
clutter and confuse general mainlist conversation. (The various Sodalitas
groups for instance, the NR Land Project, etc.) We often have citizens
complain, or even *quit* because of too much specialized conversation on the
main list... it really has benefited us to move some topics elsewhere for
those interested.

There is also an added benefit... the large number of NR lists gives us a
much more findable web presence. Each of those lists can be (or is already)
listed on the major search engines, so any of a wide variety of searches on
ancient topics leads one to Nova Roma. This seems to be some of the most
valuable free advertising we could possibly get.

A simple solution would be to organize the lists, rather than to delete lists
to the point where no organization is needed. All this would take would be a
page on the NR website, listing all the various online discussion groups,
direct links and clear instructions on how to subscribe.

I'm honestly sure what office might be in charge of such a project, but it
would be easy enough to post a call for URL submissions, and even to have
someone look for stray NR lists and contact them directly to see if they're
still active.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6816 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Re. Let's get organized guys...
----Original Message Follows----
From: cassius622@...
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re. Let's get organized guys...
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:45:44 EST

...Not all discussions can happen on the Main List these days. We've grown
to
the point where there are many specialized topics of interest that would
only
clutter and confuse general mainlist conversation. (The various Sodalitas
groups for instance, the NR Land Project, etc.) We often have citizens
complain, or even *quit* because of too much specialized conversation on the
main list... it really has benefited us to move some topics elsewhere for
those interested...

------------------------------------------------------------
Salvete:

I thought the reason people were quitting is the low level of discourse
that often gets going in the main list, and not because it becomes too
specialized. Speaking for myself, had I joined NR main list before I joined
NR I would have said goodby amigos and never joined NR. The specialized
conversations that happen often are good,
it is never above the average citizen's grasp, and without it wouldn't be
worth logging in.

I think there are too many websites, and that's why most of them (all of
them I dare say) are inactive.

Galerius Peregrinator.



_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6817 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Senator & Consular Fabius Maximus wrote recently:

> Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the same,
> I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth
> Fabius created.

He was referring to Postumius Tubertus' disavowal of
any Century Points he gains for being Accensus.

If it would reassure the Senator and other citizens
who share his concerns, I should happily renounce my
claim to any additional Century Points resulting from
me service on the Senior Consul's staff. I didn't know
we would get them when I volunteered, and I shan't
miss them.

However, it seems to me that this is beginning to look
like the argument that only people who don't want
something should be given it. The Senator implies that
service to the state with no desire for reward is a
'Roman work ethic'. Well, he is a more eminent
historian than I, so I suspect that if he reflects for
a moment he will agree that in some respects it is
quite the opposite of the classical Roman work ethic.
It is certainly true that the Romans admired stories
like that of Cincinnatus, who was called from his
humble plough to defend the republic and then returned
again to his fields. But I'm sure the Senator will
agree that in the middle and late republic, and quite
possibly also in the early, Roman magistrates were
quite open and frank about their expectation that if,
for example, they won an important victory they should
be given a triumph. They even gave themselves rewards
by putting up statues of themselves to commemorate
their achievements. The system of clientship, too,
contains the implicit assumption that 'one good turn
deserves another'.

None of this is to say that the Romans thought that an
official who did no work ought to be rewarded, of
course, merely that a Roman who thought he had done
something worthy of reward would be quite unbashful
about saying so. Patriotism and the desire to serve
Rome were not considered incompatible with being
praised and rewarded for doing it.

So perhaps it would be appropriate to wait and see
whether, when elections are coming up and century
points can make an important difference, the Cohort
has earned its points or not. I've seen people in the
Cohort working hard enough that if they keep it up
they'll have earned their century points and their
titles before the year is half gone. But that's my
opinion: the proof is in the proverbial.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6818 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Digest No 385 Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus SPD

I was truly humbled and honored when I finished reading such high praise
from someone who we all admire for his own virtues. Thank you, Palladius.

It has been an honor and privilege to have served Nova Roma. It has been a
pleasure to watch her grow and see so many new quirites take up the work.
I've been happy to see so many new, talented and professional people join us
and take up positions of leadership and responsibility.
Let us pray that our work continues to be favored by the Gods.

I would like to take this time to thank my colleagues Caius Flavius
Diocletianus, Marcus Octavius
Germanicus et Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix for bestowing the agnomen Augur
upon me.
Thanks guys, you're the best :-)

Mars nos protegas.

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:12:51 -0000
From: "deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>" <bcatfd@...>
Subject: Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Salvete,

The new year has passed and I discover I have made a glaring omission
in not marking a singular event. Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, the
most Roman of all Nova Romans, has quietly left the office of censor
with the swearing in of Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

In a quiet forthright manner, Lucius Equitius did great honor to this
office and to Nova Roma. He has more determination than anyone else
in our micronation, and rose to the office of censor after events
that would have made lesser men run for the door. While we have had
our differences, he will always have my admiration.

Characteristically, he quietly retired from public office at the end
of his term with just a brief message. Though he will still be active
as Augur, pontiff and Senator I don't think most Nova Romans realize
the loss to the Republic when his term ended, or the quality of the
service done on their behalf. Censor is the the most difficult job by
far in Nova Roma and is done away from the sight of the crowds. No
man has done greater honor to this position than he.

Gratias tibi ago, Luci Equiti Cincinnate. Ave!

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6819 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Comitia Curiata
I, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Lictor Novae Romae and member of the Comitia Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium to the Nova Roma Magistrates for the year MMDCCLVI ab urbe condita (2003)

May the Gods of Roma Antiqua watch over the Magistrates of Nova Roma, and grant them the guidance and wisdom to use their Imperium for the positive furtherance of Romanitas. May this sacred bond bring favor upon our Nation and our Citizens in this coming year.

Mars nos protegas, Valete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6820 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: OBSERVE QUAESTOR ASSIGNMENT FOR MMDCCLVI - second time
Salvete Quirites!

This is the second time I send this, because I have just got _one_
answer, now I also send it to the different Magistrati personally.
EVERYBODY should contact me personally , I can't read minds. Observe
that if the Consuls don't get the possible existing agreements
between Aediles and Quaestores, we will according to the Constitution
just asign each Quaestor to an Aedile!
===============

Salvete Candidates for the Praetorship, elected Aediles and Quaestores!

The Consuls will soon assign Quaestores to this year's Aediles. This
is to be done by "mutual agreement" between all concerned according
to the Constitution.

The Consuls have already made an agreement with the following Quaestores:

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus with Sextus Appolonius Scipio as Consular Quaestor
Titus Labienus Fortunatus with Gnaeus Octavius Noricus as Consular Quaestor

This year we have two complications, both of the Praetores for this
year are still unknown and we need one more Quaestor to be elected.
The three candidates for the two positions as Praetores are Marcus
Arminius Maior, Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Gnaeus Salix
Astur. The Senior Consul will soon call for the election of the two
Praetores and one additional Quaestor (first asking for candidates).

Thus, we may not be able to make all of the Quaestor's assignments at
the same time; at least a few of them may be dependent on the outcome
of the 3rd-round Praetor's election. Nevertheless, where there is a
clear agreement between a Quaestor and an Aedile, we will attempt to
make that assignment.

This is a list of the five available Quaestores:

Decimus Iunius Silanus, Lucius Arminius Faustus, Claudius Salix
Davianus, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Manius Constantinus Serapio.

This is the list of the elected Aediles:

Curule Aedils: Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Plebeian Aedils; Lucius Arminius Faustus and Marcus Scribonius Curio
Britannicus

I hereby ask all newly-elected Quaestores and Aediles to review the
lists of elected magistrates, contacting those who you would like to
serve with, and then to contact me as the Consul holding the fasces
for this month to state your preference as soon as possible.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6821 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Re. Let's get organized guys...
Salve,
I Was speaking of lists that are dead. I Deleated one
this morning that had 4 members and that hadn't had a
post other than some spam in 8 months. Lists like that
one only make it harder to find the active lists.

--- cassius622@... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> It seems to me that the difficulty with Nova Roma
> lists is not that there are
> too many, but rather that there is no central
> listing of them on the NR
> website.
>
> Not all discussions can happen on the Main List
> these days. We've grown to
> the point where there are many specialized topics of
> interest that would only
> clutter and confuse general mainlist conversation.
> (The various Sodalitas
> groups for instance, the NR Land Project, etc.) We
> often have citizens
> complain, or even *quit* because of too much
> specialized conversation on the
> main list... it really has benefited us to move some
> topics elsewhere for
> those interested.
>
> There is also an added benefit... the large number
> of NR lists gives us a
> much more findable web presence. Each of those lists
> can be (or is already)
> listed on the major search engines, so any of a wide
> variety of searches on
> ancient topics leads one to Nova Roma. This seems to
> be some of the most
> valuable free advertising we could possibly get.
>
> A simple solution would be to organize the lists,
> rather than to delete lists
> to the point where no organization is needed. All
> this would take would be a
> page on the NR website, listing all the various
> online discussion groups,
> direct links and clear instructions on how to
> subscribe.
>
> I'm honestly sure what office might be in charge of
> such a project, but it
> would be easy enough to post a call for URL
> submissions, and even to have
> someone look for stray NR lists and contact them
> directly to see if they're
> still active.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6822 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: OBSERVE QUAESTOR ASSIGNMENT FOR MMDCCLVI - second time
Ave Consul,

You might want to give our new magistrates a couple more days. Its still the holiday season (until Monday) and people who might still be traveling.

I know that at Earthlink about 20% of our company's employees are still on their holiday leave.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Titus Labienus Fortunatus ; Manius Constantinus Serapio ; danedwardsuk@... ; lafaustus@... ; sacro_barese_impero@... ; davius_sanctex@... ; spqr753@... ; Gnaeus Equitius Marinus ; marcusscribonius@...
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:44 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] OBSERVE QUAESTOR ASSIGNMENT FOR MMDCCLVI - second time


Salvete Quirites!

This is the second time I send this, because I have just got _one_
answer, now I also send it to the different Magistrati personally.
EVERYBODY should contact me personally , I can't read minds. Observe
that if the Consuls don't get the possible existing agreements
between Aediles and Quaestores, we will according to the Constitution
just asign each Quaestor to an Aedile!
===============

Salvete Candidates for the Praetorship, elected Aediles and Quaestores!

The Consuls will soon assign Quaestores to this year's Aediles. This
is to be done by "mutual agreement" between all concerned according
to the Constitution.

The Consuls have already made an agreement with the following Quaestores:

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus with Sextus Appolonius Scipio as Consular Quaestor
Titus Labienus Fortunatus with Gnaeus Octavius Noricus as Consular Quaestor

This year we have two complications, both of the Praetores for this
year are still unknown and we need one more Quaestor to be elected.
The three candidates for the two positions as Praetores are Marcus
Arminius Maior, Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Gnaeus Salix
Astur. The Senior Consul will soon call for the election of the two
Praetores and one additional Quaestor (first asking for candidates).

Thus, we may not be able to make all of the Quaestor's assignments at
the same time; at least a few of them may be dependent on the outcome
of the 3rd-round Praetor's election. Nevertheless, where there is a
clear agreement between a Quaestor and an Aedile, we will attempt to
make that assignment.

This is a list of the five available Quaestores:

Decimus Iunius Silanus, Lucius Arminius Faustus, Claudius Salix
Davianus, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Manius Constantinus Serapio.

This is the list of the elected Aediles:

Curule Aedils: Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Plebeian Aedils; Lucius Arminius Faustus and Marcus Scribonius Curio
Britannicus

I hereby ask all newly-elected Quaestores and Aediles to review the
lists of elected magistrates, contacting those who you would like to
serve with, and then to contact me as the Consul holding the fasces
for this month to state your preference as soon as possible.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6823 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Tribune LPO comments on the request of |intercessio
Salve rogator Q. Cassius Calvus


|Subject: Re: Tribune LPO comments on the request of |intercessio
|
|Salve Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
|
|
|I apologize for the major snippage of your ruling. Thank |you for
|taking the time to consider my petition and make a ruling |upon it. I
|do not take your denial of my petition personally and |harbor no ill
|will towards anyone no matter which side of this debate |they
|represented. I hope that you are indeed correct that the |possibility
|of macronational civil litigation would never come true.
|
|Vale,
|
|Q. Cassius Calvus
|Rogator



Thank you for understanding my reasoning. I am really happy that this matter ended peacefully :-) .


Vale bene

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6824 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Absentia
Salvete omnes.
Beginning on January 14th until the first days of February , I'll be away on vacation since it is Summer time here in the Southern Hemisphere. I'll be relaxing after a tough year.

Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6825 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salvete Quirites,

I Shall start out by saying that I'm not making any
accusations about the intents of the Senior Consul.
From the way he administered his Provincia I expected
a large number of apointments once he assumed office.
In his case it just seems to be his leadership style
and not any neferious intentions.

Why he made so many apointments dosen't change the
fact that a precedent has been set for a huge staff. A
Future Consul who's main intrest is building up a
power base could use this precedent to make a large
number of apointments solely for the purpose of
awarding Century points to members of his faction so
that his faction would have more power in the
Centuries. This could become a means by which a
faction could maintain it's grip on power.

Once we reach the stage where apointments are a means
of maintaining a faction in power it will be hard to
put an end to the system. Before we reach that stage
we should consider limits on the number of apointments
a magistrate can make that recieve Century Points. I
Don't think any of wants a "spoils system" where a
faction can use the power of apointment to insulate
itself from defeat at the polls.

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Senator & Consular Fabius Maximus wrote recently:
>
> > Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
> same,
> > I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth
> > Fabius created.
>
> He was referring to Postumius Tubertus' disavowal of
> any Century Points he gains for being Accensus.
>
> If it would reassure the Senator and other citizens
> who share his concerns, I should happily renounce my
> claim to any additional Century Points resulting
> from
> me service on the Senior Consul's staff. I didn't
> know
> we would get them when I volunteered, and I shan't
> miss them.
>
> However, it seems to me that this is beginning to
> look
> like the argument that only people who don't want
> something should be given it. The Senator implies
> that
> service to the state with no desire for reward is a
> 'Roman work ethic'. Well, he is a more eminent
> historian than I, so I suspect that if he reflects
> for
> a moment he will agree that in some respects it is
> quite the opposite of the classical Roman work
> ethic.
> It is certainly true that the Romans admired stories
> like that of Cincinnatus, who was called from his
> humble plough to defend the republic and then
> returned
> again to his fields. But I'm sure the Senator will
> agree that in the middle and late republic, and
> quite
> possibly also in the early, Roman magistrates were
> quite open and frank about their expectation that
> if,
> for example, they won an important victory they
> should
> be given a triumph. They even gave themselves
> rewards
> by putting up statues of themselves to commemorate
> their achievements. The system of clientship, too,
> contains the implicit assumption that 'one good turn
> deserves another'.
>
> None of this is to say that the Romans thought that
> an
> official who did no work ought to be rewarded, of
> course, merely that a Roman who thought he had done
> something worthy of reward would be quite unbashful
> about saying so. Patriotism and the desire to serve
> Rome were not considered incompatible with being
> praised and rewarded for doing it.
>
> So perhaps it would be appropriate to wait and see
> whether, when elections are coming up and century
> points can make an important difference, the Cohort
> has earned its points or not. I've seen people in
> the
> Cohort working hard enough that if they keep it up
> they'll have earned their century points and their
> titles before the year is half gone. But that's my
> opinion: the proof is in the proverbial.
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6826 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: List Organization
Salvete Omnes:

Referring to the organization of lists, and alluding to the remarks
of the Pontifex Maximus....

While I was Praetor I compiled a list of sodalitates and groups to
which each new subscriber receives, in an attempt to orientate
newcomers. I also put the URL to the website in same, hoping they
would navigate to respective provincia contact, etc.

Perhaps this greeting, and I believe it is still being used, could be
expanded to include the addresses of the magistrates to whom
questions could be directed, like the information on the website. The
editor of the Eagle could be included here.

I just found that alot of new people were subscribing thinking 'this
is all there is', the mainlist, here in NR. A few, it would seem,
didn't even know about the main website.

Just a suggestion

Po
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6827 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Quaestor Assignments for MMDCCLVI
> This year we have two complications, both of the Praetores for this
> year are still unknown and we need one more Quaestor to be elected.
*****Sir, Once again, I shall gladly make myself available for the open
post, in the hope to serve Nova Roma. COnsidering I obtained 7
Centuries without actively campaigning, I hope to make the cut this
time around (If I am eligable to run, that is).

My reason to run is simple: I fully BELIEVE in the dream of making the
Republic real. Maybe not today, or tomorrow...but I believe we CAN
make it happen!

As I said in a letter to the Senior Consul when I made myself available
for service-> If he (or any other Magistrate for that matter) needs me to
do anything to assist, let me know, give me a goal, and I shall get this
done. It's not about a title, it's not about "what's in it for me", it's about
how can I SERVE the Republic...to make it a better place?

Please let me know If I amy stand. I do realize that if elected, I will
have to wait until my 6 months are up to take office, and I shall serve
until then.

I await ANY question, comments, concerns.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6828 From: metamorphosis2003 Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: To Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
---

Salve:

Not to offend, but truthfully, L. Pompeius answered the petition
officially, and I think it was an example that should be pointed out
of how a legal petition should be answered, with legal rationale etc.

Unless one or all of you say it is ex officium, it really could just
be your personal opinion you are citing, and not a direct official
respondeo, with legal rationale, to the petitioner.

I am sorry about your health problems. I had a head injury on New
Year's Eve too......a magna 'head ache' from working one of the worst
nursing shifts in my career....uggh.



Po

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia Cornelia :
>
> > We all 'hesitate' to deal with these matters (trust me, I
know :)),
> <but nonetheless the tribs have been petitioned, and the citizen
> <issuing the petition is entitled to a duly lawful and official
answer
> <by the Tribunes. You have replied in a lawful, proper and
objective
> <manner. I commend you for formally answering Calvus as opposed to
> <offering an unofficial and hypothetical opinion.
>
> If you are referring to me, I'm sorry for my silence. I received a
nasty
> head injury on New Year's Eve and I am avoiding sending emails to
the
> mainlist unless I am feeling 100%. Yesterday I was a bit incoherent
(or more
> so than usual!). But Lucius Pompeius Octavianus and I discussed the
> situation and then he posted his response to the mainlist. I didn't
think an
> official response from me was necessary, since his 'no' to an
intercessio
> pretty much closes the subject (our third Tribune being away on
vacation).
>
> Anyway, sorry again if I failed in my duties!
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
> Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6829 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Candidacy for Quaestorship
I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, make myself available as a candidate for
the open (8th) Quaestorship. I realize I would have to wait until my 6th
month to serve in office, and my term would end with everyone else's.


Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6830 From: rabotnik@ Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: My candidacy
Salvete!

I Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus propose my candidature for
office of Questor of Nova Roma

Valete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6831 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Formal refusal of Q. Cassius Calvus request
Ex officio Tribuni Plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

I. I do hereby take on civis Cornelia Pompelia Strabo 's request to formally answer Q. Cassius Calvus' petition.

II. Given the reasons I already informally posted at Nova Roma' s main mailing list:

II.a. I herein transcribe the above mentioned reasons posted :

"Regarding Q. Cassius Calvus' petition to exercisse intercessio Edictum Consulare CFQ II de Nominationibus in Cohorte Consulis CFQ (The Second Consular edict CFQ II on the appointments in the Cohors
Consulis CFQ), I must express that intercessio must be avoided as much as possible. It should be used only when no alternative is left. Otherwise it would lead to abuse of power.
In second place solid arguments should be given for a request of intercessio. In this case, instead, they seem to be just hypothetical.
Q. Cassius Calvus wrote : "... It is my duty to protect the Senate and People of Nova Roma from
potential litigation in macronational courts of law. Requiring
oaths and appointment of minors to positions of Apparitores as
defined in the Constitution of Nova Roma Article IV, section 9.
leaves Nova Roma vulnerable to potential litigation in macronational
courts of law... "
I consider a hypothetical argument like this one is not enough to exercise intercessio.Thus, I consider his request too excesive.
Besides, apparitores are asistants to magistrates. So these last ones are responsibles, not the first ones.Responsibility cannot be delegated. So I do not think that minors taking an oath as apparitores would ever arise any litigation.
I do not have a single piece of objective information to exercise intercessio. I cannot exercise it based only on hypothetical reasoning.
By the way, the text of oath for apparitores have nothing wrong, at least in my point of view. So I don't think Q.Cassius Calvus' arguments would ever become true.
Given the reasons above I cannot accept Q. Cassius Calvus' request"


II.b. By using my authority as Tribunus Plebis I do hereby formally refuse civis novaromanus Q. Cassius Calvus ' request to exercise intercessio against Edictum Consulare CFQ II de Nominationibus in Cohorte Consulis CFQ (The Second Consular edict CFQ II on the appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ)

Scribebam Bonariæ Non. Ian. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. in the year of the consulship of Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Iunior Senior Titus Labienus Fortunatus

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Tribunus Plebis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6832 From: Piparskeggr Ullarsson Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: In regards to the vesting of Imperium
Avete Omnes,

Venator scripsit:

I, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, Lictor Novae Romae and member of the Comitia
Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium -- the power to
carry out elected duties and uphold the laws --to the duly elected Nova Roma
Magistrates for the year 2755 AUC. I acknowledge that this imperium will be
held both by elected and appointed magistrates in the coming year, both on the
National and Provincial level.

May the Gods and the Genius of Roma Antiqua (and the Holies of all our Cives)
watch over the Magistrates of Nova Roma, and grant them the guidance and wisdom
to use their Imperium for the positive furtherance of Romanitas. May one and
all of our magistrates be shining examples of every Good Virtue, Private and
Civic. May this sacred bond bring favor upon our Nation and our Citizens in
this coming year.

Benedictus et Bona Fortuna,
Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Paterfamilias, Cives et Lictor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6833 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestorship
Salve Honorable Publius Tarquitius Rufus!

Here are the reguirements to become a Questor:
1. to be 21 years of age
2. to have been a citizen for 6 months.

Do You fullfil the first one? It has been known that candidates have
been allowed to stand for candidacy before their time. I will consult
with my colleague privately and then come back to You. Still if there
are one candidate or more that fullfil the requirements You may
expect that You will not be allowed to stand.

>I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, make myself available as a candidate for
>the open (8th) Quaestorship. I realize I would have to wait until my 6th
>month to serve in office, and my term would end with everyone else's.
>
>Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6834 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: My candidacy
Salve Illustrus Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus!

You are welcome to candidate.

>Salvete!
>
>I Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus propose my candidature for
>office of Questor of Nova Roma
>
>Valete!

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6835 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Formal refusal of Q. Cassius Calvus request
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Pompeius Octavianus"
<danielovi@c...> wrote:
> Ex officio Tribuni Plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
> I. I do hereby take on civis Cornelia Pompelia Strabo 's request to
formally answer Q. Cassius Calvus' petition.

I do thank you again for making sure everything is tied up nice and
legal, leaving no doubt that an official ruling has been made.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6836 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Absentia
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Pompeius Octavianus"
<danielovi@c...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes.
> Beginning on January 14th until the first days of February , I'll
be away on vacation since it is Summer time here in the Southern
Hemisphere. I'll be relaxing after a tough year.

Salve,

Rub it in, rub it in <GRIN>.

Vale

Q. Cassius Calvus (who's just got back inside from cleaning off the
car and the mess left by the latest winter storm to strike Nova
Britannia)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6837 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Investment of Imperium
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dictit,


I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus, Lictor Novae Romae and member of the
Comitia Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of
Imperium--the power to carry out elected duties and uphold the laws--to
the duly elected Nova Roma magistrates for the year 2755 AUC. I
acknowledge that this Imperium will be held both by elected and
appointed magistrates in the coming year, both on the State and
Provincial level.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over the Magistrates
of Nova Roma, and grant them the guidance and wisdom to use their
Imperium for the
positive furtherance of Romanitas. May this sacred bond bring favor upon
our Nation and our Citizens in this coming year.

As Minerva Templi Sacerdotes, I ask that the Lady of Wisdom grant Her
favor and guidance to our newly elected magistrates as they assume their
solemn duties to our great Res Publica.



Bene valete in pace Deorum,



C. Minucius Hadrianus
Lictor

Minerva Templi Sacerdotes



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6838 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Absentia
"quintuscassiuscalvus " wrote:
>(who's just got back inside from cleaning off the
> car and the mess left by the latest winter storm
> to strike Nova Britannia)

Salve, Q. Cassi Calve.

Complain if and only if your temperature averages below -30 degrees.
(-21 Farenheit) There's a reason the Vikings were the scourge of
southern Europe, 'k? When winter was approaching, it was either that or
stay at home.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6839 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Oath of Office
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dictit,

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R.
Gunn) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Propraetor of Nova
Britannia to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Propaetor of Nova Britannia and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.



I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) implore Minerva to look
propitiously upon my appointment, and grant me the wisdom to carry out
my duties to the Res Publica.



Bene valete in pace Deorum,



C. Minucius Hadrianus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6840 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Let's get organized guys...
Galerius Peregrinator writes:

I thought the reason people were quitting is the low level of discourse
that often gets going in the main list, and not because it becomes too
specialized.

Cassius:
It's impossible to always please everyone at once of course. Yet I myself
don't believe that 'a low level of discourse' has been the major difficulty.
The most frequent complaints are 'too much politics", "too much arguing", and
"not enough cultural activities in NR as a whole". (Also, I think the issue
you refer to was about 'not enough *meaningful* content, as opposed to the
number of overall messages.)

> Speaking for myself, had I joined NR main list before I joined
NR I would have said goodby amigos and never joined NR. The specialized
conversations that happen often are good,
it is never above the average citizen's grasp, and without it wouldn't be
worth logging in.

Cassius:
The type of specialized conversation I was referring to was threads that go
on for days or even weeks, drowning out all other topics. The arguing over
Gens Structure in the latter part of last year was a good case in point. As
another example - should Citizens interested in Philosophy do *all* their
conversing on the main list, or should there be a list dedicated to
Philosophy so that not everyone has to wade through several philosophical
posts every day?

>I think there are too many websites, and that's why most of them (all of
them I dare say) are inactive.

Cassius:
I myself do not believe there are too many websites by any means, nor that
the lists are inactive. We have a good many Citizens that refuse to subscribe
to the main list but do participate on others.

And of course there are other benefits. Again, each list has it's own hompage
URL which can be linked to the major search engines, giving NR a great deal
of 'free advertising'. Not every search on Roman stuff turns up the one Nova
Roma main homepage, after all!

The various lists are simply part of our infrastructure. A main reason that a
bunch of folks left and founded the SVR was that they felt Nova Roma was 'all
politics and no cultural interest'. We DO have many cultural things
represented on the various NR lists now, giving us a wider scope of appeal.

The problem seems to be that we've never taken the time to provide the lists
as an organized resource. It really wouldn't be that hard to have the various
discussion lists linked on the NR homepage. This would make all lists
accessable to the Citizens all the time... and I dare say they'd be more
active for the increased availability to folks already in NR.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6841 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: A public thanks!
Salvete!



I would offer my public thanks to my Pater Familias, Senator Marcus
Minucius Audens, first for his excellent service as Proconsul of Nova
Britannia, and for allowing me the opportunity to serve as Propraetor of
Nova Britannia following his retirement. If I am able to do accomplish
half as much for Nova Britannia during my term of office, as Senator
Audens has done during his, I shall consider myself successful beyond
expectation. My chances of doing so are greatly improved by Senator
Audens decision to remain on as Legate of Connecticut, so good advice
and assistance will never be far off.



I would also like to thank the Senate for approving my nomination, and
shall do my best to live up to the honor you have bestowed upon me.



To the citizens of Nova Britannia, I promise to you that I shall do my
best to leave the Provincia a better place than I found it (no mean
trick) and I look forward to serving you in the coming year!



Bene valete in pace Deorum,



C. Minucius Hadrianus

Propraetor of Nova Britannia

Lictor

Minerva Templi Sacerdotes



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6842 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Discourses in the Forum, etc.
Salvete Omnes:

Thanks Gaius Galerius, for thinking of others as you present your
thoughts.

With respect to the low level of discourse in the forum Gaius Galerius
Peregrinator discussed previous, as a cause for people leaving Nova
Roma........

No, this is not the only reason. We have mucho political
rangling/debating (to be expected in the main forum) and those who are
new kind of get 'buried in it' thinking there is nothing else here in
Nova Roma, which, is hardly the case. We have people from all walks of
life....influenced by many cultures and religions, and diffs in
opinion are bound to occur. Unfortunately, not everyone recognizes
some of the rangling in this light.

The 'low level of discourse', to wit, the religious ostracization
occurs two or three times a year (I think once this year before
Agorius' appearance, but the situation was easily modified with
reason)....I was almost proud of the lack of major conflicts in the
forum....I spoke too soon :(

At any rate, Agorius is likely a troll, (Haven't seen him, have you?)
although he remains a citizen. He is more into the Gothic mysteries,
placating Hecate et al, so I am not entirely sure if he is even a
Religio practitioner in the sense that NR celebrates the mysteries of
the Gods and Goddesses.

We lose two or three good people per year due to irresponsible
'freedom of speech' and a lopsided constitution, which contradicts the
'welcome wagon' on the website. I tried to rewrite the list
guidelines for the benefit of everyone, referencing the constitution
and our obligations of Yahoo, but as a Praetor, I can't do anything
unless they are respected by magistrates senior to me, who instead,
ignore existing edicta of Nova Roma, and supplant either a)their own
sentiments and prejudices and/or b) their macronational laws, thinking
that what is good for their country is good for everyone, or good for
Nova Roma.

Check mate.

Many macronations, Canada and Germany for two, have hate laws in
place. You cannot make adhoc hate statements or accusatory statements
against entire sects or races of persons.


I pray that the language of the constitution gets ameliorated this
year; we all get disgusted with various religions, but berating our
own people in the process is probably not going to makes us grow,
except to increase perhaps our large number of dormant citizens.

Naturally, I am sceptical, as I have seen this ignored before.
Perhaps it is too handy a political tool for those whose moral compass
is perhaps an XXLarge :)

I would far rather the website say 'we lend ourselves quite weightedly
to the practise of Roman Paganism and promote these beliefs, which is
what makes us unique or something like that, rather than tell people
they are 'welcome' then subject them to treatment and prejudice we
wouldn't get away with macronationally.

Maybe a few people should tour some of the glue factories in Europe of
days gone by, or look at the accounts of the dealings of Croatia et
al, the Kurds in Iraq. Perhaps they would adopt a "I can but should
I?" stance to their often unnecessary 'freedom of speech at all cost'
attitude, when it comes to chastising persons here in NR who work
hard, mind their own business, respect the Gods, love their fellow
citizens, and do not attempt to impose their religious dogmas on others.



I am getting long here, but a few years ago I looked after a patient,
who was from another country, and was living here in Canada. When he
was seven years old, he was lined up in front of an open grave with
several others.....shot at...he fell in. He obviously survived. He
waited
...........and crawled our once his predators had left. They didn't
like his race or religion.......

Pretty grizzly, but what in the name of the Pantheon and all that is
divine did he do to deserve this? A little boy! An extreme example,one
of many I could give you, but nonetheless the end product of unbridled
propogation of hate.

"Freedom", like money, weapons, intelligence are tools....to be used
for good or evil. To produce positive outcomes they must be used with
due attention to virtue and common courtesy (a virtue too) toward our
fellow citizens and magistrates.



We cannot take our ill-defined, ill-enforced, and ambiguous practises
to the United Nations (a goal of some) and display ourselves as
something unique, and as kindred who 'have it all together'. As it
stands, and if we continue, we will just look like everyone else.

We need to take steps to nip this in the bud,well branch now, if we
are to promote any manner of nationalism within our republic, and any
sense of safety and security for future citizens and their impuberes.

Thanks for your time, and once again Galerius, thanks for thinking of
the people 'at the back of the bus'.

Pompeia Cornelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6843 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,

And Po says: Salvete Luci Sicini et Alii:
>
> I Shall start out by saying that I'm not making any
> accusations about the intents of the Senior Consul.
> From the way he administered his Provincia I expected
> a large number of apointments once he assumed office.
> In his case it just seems to be his leadership style
> and not any neferious intentions.

Pompeia: I agree with this rationale, Luci Sicini.
>
> Why he made so many apointments dosen't change the
> fact that a precedent has been set for a huge staff. A
> Future Consul who's main intrest is building up a
> power base could use this precedent to make a large
> number of apointments solely for the purpose of
> awarding Century points to members of his faction so
> that his faction would have more power in the
> Centuries. This could become a means by which a
> faction could maintain it's grip on power.
>
> Once we reach the stage where apointments are a means
> of maintaining a faction in power it will be hard to
> put an end to the system. Before we reach that stage
> we should consider limits on the number of apointments
> a magistrate can make that recieve Century Points. I
> Don't think any of wants a "spoils system" where a
> faction can use the power of apointment to insulate
> itself from defeat at the polls.

Pompeia: I understand your concerns in this regard, and I know too,
that you speak sincerely and void of any malintention. We discussed
this last year with respect to the governors. The governors are
subject to the Senate so I didn't think a ceiling on appointees was
necessary.

Caeso Fabius Consul has always been devoted to getting people
involved, hence his larger cabinet I think. I am not worried about
him abusing power. Judging by the number of votes I think the
populace stated they were pretty much satisfied with his sense of good
judgement.

However, not everyone is a Caeso Fabius, any more than every Censor is
going to have the greatest judgement or conviction to virtue and
lawfulness. Indeed, not everyone has his years, his experience and his
wisdom.

It might be worth looking into a check of Accensus/Scribes for various
magistrates for next year. I don't think it will be necessary this
year. I have faith that Caeso Fabius has won people over not by
century points but by himself and what he is willing to try to offer
for our collective benefit.

I do believe, with due respect that more weighted precedents have been
set, to wit, from the office of the Censores, already adding to the
powers which remain undefined, and in some cases 'carte blanche' Like
the language concerning the impuberes, the language with respect to
the Censores remains like a seive, and precedent setting in this area
can conceivably hand the wrong person an emporer's septor.

With respect to the Censores, and I hope you and Pompeius will take
this with the sincerity it is intended, and not as a personal
judgement, I do not think it is prudent for Senators to be appointed
without consulting the Senate. It doesn't seem reasonable that two
men (well one)would have that much power, and maintain a republic.

When I saw the last Senate Agenda(has it been deleted?)on this list,
the item with respect to the Senate appointments was not taken up by
the Senate. I am thrilled for you, Druse et Pompeius, you both deserve
it, but I don't think it is appropriate, and I can't reasonably see
it happening with any regularity in antiquita.

Another area is the arbitrary deposing of an existing nonresigned
paterfamilias, even a dormant one, outside the parameters of the Gens
Registration Lex, which was voted in by comitia as a means of closing
the gens of dormant paters/maters and the gens procuring another one.
This is a recipe for abuse. No magisterial edicta, as you know too
Druse, outweighs what the people have selected as law.



The language in the constitution regarding the behaviour of existing
gens does not 'fit' when we are talking a dormant gens with an active
member applying. How shall we acheive a consensus of a gens when
there are only two people?




It is unfortunate that the populace was never afforded an opportunity
to discuss more concise wording with respect to powers of the
Censores, and the extent of their obligations to cooperate with the
Senate. So much fuss was made about the veto of Sulla with respect to
the gens reforms. But few realize that the proposals presented by
Sulla, better defining the Censoral authority were as swiftly vetoed
by his colleague/opponent.

I have faith in Censor Dio, that he will use his authority wisely, as
he is Senior Censor this year. Beyond his tenure, well, I suppose we
could call a dictatorship if the Censors run amok.

I am more "immediately" concerned about these precedents than a few
more than a few Consular assistants being appointed by a good man.

Three things, as I see it, based on what I have read, were responsible
for the demise of the Ancient Republic:

a complacent populace
client tribunes (talking hypothetically about antiquita here)
abusive censores ( ditto)

The above circumstances are a matter of historical documentation.

We need to learn from the mistakes of the ancients, not repeat them.
We don't have to recreat their mistakes :)

Bene valete,
Pompeia
>
> --- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@s...>
> wrote:
> > A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> > greetings.
> >
> > Senator & Consular Fabius Maximus wrote recently:
> >
> > > Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
> > same,
> > > I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth
> > > Fabius created.
> >
> > He was referring to Postumius Tubertus' disavowal of
> > any Century Points he gains for being Accensus.
> >
> > If it would reassure the Senator and other citizens
> > who share his concerns, I should happily renounce my
> > claim to any additional Century Points resulting
> > from
> > me service on the Senior Consul's staff. I didn't
> > know
> > we would get them when I volunteered, and I shan't
> > miss them.
> >
> > However, it seems to me that this is beginning to
> > look
> > like the argument that only people who don't want
> > something should be given it. The Senator implies
> > that
> > service to the state with no desire for reward is a
> > 'Roman work ethic'. Well, he is a more eminent
> > historian than I, so I suspect that if he reflects
> > for
> > a moment he will agree that in some respects it is
> > quite the opposite of the classical Roman work
> > ethic.
> > It is certainly true that the Romans admired stories
> > like that of Cincinnatus, who was called from his
> > humble plough to defend the republic and then
> > returned
> > again to his fields. But I'm sure the Senator will
> > agree that in the middle and late republic, and
> > quite
> > possibly also in the early, Roman magistrates were
> > quite open and frank about their expectation that
> > if,
> > for example, they won an important victory they
> > should
> > be given a triumph. They even gave themselves
> > rewards
> > by putting up statues of themselves to commemorate
> > their achievements. The system of clientship, too,
> > contains the implicit assumption that 'one good turn
> > deserves another'.
> >
> > None of this is to say that the Romans thought that
> > an
> > official who did no work ought to be rewarded, of
> > course, merely that a Roman who thought he had done
> > something worthy of reward would be quite unbashful
> > about saying so. Patriotism and the desire to serve
> > Rome were not considered incompatible with being
> > praised and rewarded for doing it.
> >
> > So perhaps it would be appropriate to wait and see
> > whether, when elections are coming up and century
> > points can make an important difference, the Cohort
> > has earned its points or not. I've seen people in
> > the
> > Cohort working hard enough that if they keep it up
> > they'll have earned their century points and their
> > titles before the year is half gone. But that's my
> > opinion: the proof is in the proverbial.
> >
> > Cordus
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> > www.strategikon.org
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6844 From: gens.minius@club-internet.fr Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Candidacy for the Quaestorship
Salve,

I, Caïus Minius Messala Bellator, make myself available as a candidate for the open (8th) Quaestorship. I realize I would have to wait until my 6th month to serve in office, and my term would end with everyone else's.

Valete in pace deorum.

Caïus Minius Messala Bellator
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6845 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
In a message dated 1/5/03 8:41:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@... writes:


> The Senator implies that
> service to the state with no desire for reward is a
> 'Roman work ethic'. Well, he is a more eminent
> historian than I, so I suspect that if he reflects for
> a moment he will agree that in some respects it is
> quite the opposite of the classical Roman work ethic.
> It is certainly true that the Romans admired stories
> like that of Cincinnatus, who was called from his
> humble plough to defend the republic and then returned
> again to his fields. But I'm sure the Senator will
> agree that in the middle and late republic, and quite
> possibly also in the early, Roman magistrates were
> quite open and frank about their expectation that if,
> for example, they won an important victory they should
> be given a triumph. They even gave themselves rewards
> by putting up statues of themselves to commemorate
> their achievements. The system of clientship, too,
> contains the implicit assumption that 'one good turn
> deserves another'.
>

Salvete Apolloni,
If you raise one hundred thousand dollars for Nova Roma, or if you get us UN
recognition I will personally draft the SC for your Ovation., and order your
statue from New Statues for the Forum and pay for it with my own money. I'll
also request the Senate to vote for a new sestercii with your likeness on it,
and pay for minting of it out of my fortune.
However until then, you are here to learn, and learn well, so one day when
you are consul you understand how things work. Why should you be rewarded
for doing this simple thing as a scribe? You start your reward when you
enter the Cursus Honorum and the people see fit to reward your efforts with a
magistracy. Than you get points in leu of pay.

I hope you understand what I'm saying here.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6846 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salvete

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...>
escreveu: > Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Shall start out by saying that I'm not making any
> accusations about the intents of the Senior Consul.
> From the way he administered his Provincia I
> expected
> a large number of apointments once he assumed
> office.
> In his case it just seems to be his leadership style
> and not any neferious intentions.

M.ARMINIUS: I agree fully with Lucius Sicinius and
many others in this issue. I believe in the capacity
of the Consul Senior in handling large and multiple
staffs to reach ambitious objectives. Good luck, Caeso
Fabius!

> Why he made so many apointments dosen't change the
> fact that a precedent has been set for a huge staff.
> A Future Consul who's main intrest is building up a
> power base could use this precedent to make a large
> number of apointments solely for the purpose of
> awarding Century points to members of his faction so
> that his faction would have more power in the
> Centuries. This could become a means by which a
> faction could maintain it's grip on power.

M.ARMINIUS: Yes, this is possible. I suggest a reform
in our Century Points system. Currently, the century
points are awarded according to the Lex Vedia
Centuriata, who is from 2752 AUC (1999 AD) and is
obsolete; for example, the Legates of provinces dont
receive century points, but the scribes (who had a
lesser status), receives 5 CPs. A discussion is needed
to see what positions deserves CPs, and leges need to
be created to replace the old Lex Vedia.

A check to this possibility is to limite the reward
for one by staff; that is, for example, if one is
named by a propraetor as Legatus and Scribe for the
same province, this one only receives CPs for the
highest position (should be Legate), and their another
title will only be mentioned in the Album Civium, but
without receiving CPs.

Currently, if the Propraetor of Brasil (that is, me)
name the hipotetical cive Caius Brasilicus four times
Scriba Propraetoris, for different tasks, he receives
the same CPs of a Consul (20 CPs); with this
modification, he only receives CPs of the higher
nomination.
This can be extended to every single staff (censorial,
consular etc.).

> Once we reach the stage where apointments are a
> means
> of maintaining a faction in power it will be hard to
> put an end to the system. Before we reach that stage
> we should consider limits on the number of
> apointments
> a magistrate can make that recieve Century Points. I
> Don't think any of wants a "spoils system" where a
> faction can use the power of apointment to insulate
> itself from defeat at the polls.

M.ARMINIUS: Since it is unlikely that this stage will
be reached this year, we can discuss with calm.

> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus

Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior

_______________________________________________________________________
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O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que você procura na Internet
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6847 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salvete

--- qfabiusmaxmi@... escreveu:
[..]
> Salvete Apolloni,
> If you raise one hundred thousand dollars for Nova
> Roma,
[..] Why should you be rewarded
> for doing this simple thing as a scribe? You start
> your reward when you
> enter the Cursus Honorum and the people see fit to
> reward your efforts with a
> magistracy. Than you get points in leu of pay.

M.ARMINIUS: According to the Lex Vedia Centuriata and
Iunia Centuriata (the second of the same name, number
XXI), we have four levels of reward: the higher
magistrate (Censor, Consul, Praetor) who receives 20
CPs; then we have the lesser magistrate (Aedilis,
Tribunus, Quaestor) who receives 10 CPs; the
Vigintisexviri (Curatores, Rogatores), who receives 10
CPs too; and the Apparitores (Assensus, Scribas,
Lictores, and Interpretes) who receives 5 CPs.

That is, according to the current practice, nearly
everybody who work in something (or have a title) here
in Nova Roma receives Century Points (shortly, CPs).

Just to clarify what you said, Quintus Fabius, do you
agree with the current system, or you believe that
scribes and/or minor magistrates dont deserve to
receive CPs?

> I hope you understand what I'm saying here.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Valete
Marcus Arminius

_______________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6848 From: aneaapollonia@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Discourses in the Forum, etc.
P. Cornelia,
That was the single best thought out speech I have heard in several months,
and certainly the most important issue I have ever seen cross this message
board. Unfortunately I see more debate on how things used to be than how they
should be now, a living working breathing religion/ way of life should at its
core be functional. I really hope we don't end up crushing the spirit of the
thing we venerate for the sake of pride and the fleeting sensation of
superiority. There really is a bigger picture out there.... I promise.

Its good to see I'm not alone in thought and deed, I hope to hear more from
you again. May you live honorably and passionately.

Valete,
I.A.A.Musa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6849 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
In a message dated 1/5/03 7:52:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
marminius@... writes:


> Just to clarify what you said, Quintus Fabius, do you
> agree with the current system, or you believe that
> scribes and/or minor magistrates dont deserve to
> receive CPs?
>

I do not, And I voted against the reform when it was put up as a lex.

Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6850 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-01-05
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salvete

--- qfabiusmaxmi@... escreveu: > In a message
dated 1/5/03 7:52:13 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> marminius@... writes:
>
>
> > Just to clarify what you said, Quintus Fabius, do
> you
> > agree with the current system, or you believe that
> > scribes and/or minor magistrates dont deserve to
> > receive CPs?
> >
>
> I do not, And I voted against the reform when it
> was put up as a lex.
>
> Fabius Maximus

M.ARMINIUS: Thank you very much for your fast and
clear answer, Consular.

Particularly, i think that the century points system
is a way to stimulate the cives to work for Nova Roma,
like "hang a carrot in front of a horse, so he runs
faster", so to say.

But i understand your reasoning, Quintus Fabius. I
believe that you consider a Century Point extremely
valuable, more like a medal, for example. Hmm.


Vale
Marcus Arminius

_______________________________________________________________________
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O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que você procura na Internet
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6851 From: 3s@hsk-net.de Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Thank you, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I just want to give my public thanks to my former collega and friend Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur. I had the honor and pleasure to serve with him one year as Censor. A year in which he showed much dignity and industria to the tasks given to the office of Censor. He gave me all assistance I needed at the begin of my term.

Luci Equiti, thank you very much for all that. Thank you for the help, the discussions and debates. Thank you also for your kind and hard work. This year with you was a pleasure.

As a sign of honor, the Censors added the agnomen of distinction "Augur" to your name, a honor you deserve.

I wish you health, luck and success for the future tasks in your offices of Augur and Pontifex, and I�m looking for your advice in the Senate. We will stay in contact.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6852 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
In a message dated 1/5/03 8:20:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
marminius@... writes:


> Particularly, i think that the century points system
> is a way to stimulate the cives to work for Nova Roma,
> like "hang a carrot in front of a horse, so he runs
> faster", so to say.
>

And it does accomplish its purpose Marcus Arminius,
acting as the "carrot" Except consider this.
Who decides who does what and deserves
what reward? I remember at one point, 5 CPs were
to be given out to Patricians for being the first
30 gens in Rome. I'm proud of my Patrician status,
proud that my Gens is one the early 30 of Rome, but to
be rewarded for that alone?
What nonsense!
Then we have the specter of incorrect points addition.
We were plagued by that in the early days, things have evened
out since, but to see citizens scrapple over points, sometimes only
a difference of five, seemed to me that the citizens were missing
the entire point of service to NR.


> But i understand your reasoning, Quintus Fabius. I
> believe that you consider a Century Point extremely
> valuable, more like a medal, for example. Hmm.
>

Ah, but you do not Marcus Arminius. No, I don't see it as a medal.
Your reward for service in a major magistracy contained in the
honorum, Provincial Praetorship, or being in the Senate, is
increased voting power, within the centuries itself.
Nova Roma rewards those citizens who dedicate themselves to her,
by allowing a greater voice in her government decision
making process. It is the one thing our enemies hate yet
since we don't have wealth qualification here,
it is the next logical thing to be measured by
those who measure such things.
My first "job" here in Nova Roma was
acting as Aedile A. Gryllus scribe.
Not because I wanted century points,
but because I wanted to learn.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6853 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Digest No 386
Salvete iterum sodales quirites

Once again I'm honored to be acknowledged by Quirites whom I have come to
respect for their virtues.
It is my hope to one day meet them in person. I've had the pleasure of
meeting Patricia and Marcus Cassius and look forward to seeing them again
soon.
Thank you for your kind words, they truly mean a great deal to me.
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
>
> > In a quiet forthright manner, Lucius Equitius did great honor to this
> > office and to Nova Roma. He has more determination than anyone else
> > in our micronation, and rose to the office of censor after events
> > that would have made lesser men run for the door. While we have had
> > our differences, he will always have my admiration.
>
> Decius Iunius has deftly expressed a most honorable sentiment, and I
> will add my thanks and respect for Lucius Equitius' hard work,
> intelligence and good humor.
>

Thanks Patricia, I hope to be able to share some good humor since I don't
have to be the big bad Censor anymore :-)

>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@...

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13

> Salvete
>
> > Gratias tibi ago, Luci Equiti Cincinnate. Ave!
>
> Iterum in me! L Equitius has done exemplary work for the Res Publica,
> and we have often come to see the wisdom of ideas that he presented well
> before they were popular. I wish him luck in all his endeavors, knowing
> he won't need it.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus

Hey, I need all the good luck I can get because one comes to times when they
feel, "If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all."
Anyway, having been able to make friends with such quality people as you all
easily made the work of Censor worth the effort.
Gratias Amice
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
>
> Salve Illustrus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus!
>
> As the Consul holding the fasces I want to publicly thank You for
> your formidable work for Nova Roma and especially your Censorship the
> two last years.
>
> In the name of the Roman people, the Senate and the whole Res
> Publica, thank You very much!
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules

That's 'Proconsul Thules' now, isn't it? :-)

Valete, Lucius Equitius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6854 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

> With respect to the Censores, and I hope you and Pompeius will take
> this with the sincerity it is intended, and not as a personal
> judgement, I do not think it is prudent for Senators to be appointed
> without consulting the Senate. It doesn't seem reasonable that two
> men (well one)would have that much power, and maintain a republic.

What do you mean by "two men (well one)"? There were two Censores
last year. There are two Censores this year. And the two new Senators
were discussed and approved unanimously by all three of us.

> It is unfortunate that the populace was never afforded an opportunity
> to discuss more concise wording with respect to powers of the
> Censores, and the extent of their obligations to cooperate with the
> Senate. So much fuss was made about the veto of Sulla with respect to
> the gens reforms. But few realize that the proposals presented by
> Sulla, better defining the Censoral authority were as swiftly vetoed
> by his colleague/opponent.

There was a world of difference in those two situations, as you well
know.

The gens reform proposal had been debated in the Senate for an entire
month and had undergone numerous revisions, in full view of every Senator.
The majority of the Senate was in favor of it - but because one man
refused to compromise, neither the Senate nor the People ever had the
chance to vote on it.

The proposal to restrict the Censores, on the other hand, was written
in secret and presented only in the form of a call for a Contio - too
late to make any changes to it. My colleague and I had debated and
negotiated for two days prior to that, and had agreed on a version that
could be presented for a vote -- that was NOT the one that was eventually
posted. It was vetoed as much for the lies and trickery that accompanied
it as for its content.

Vale, Octavius.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6855 From: 3s@hsk-net.de Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: AW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salvete Quirites.

Are century points really a stimulation for the citizens to involve themselves in administrative positions? I don�t think so. As in all organizations based on voluntary membership, you have a larger proportion of inactive members and a minor proportion of dedicated and motivated ones.

The last fraction will involve without further rewards, simply because they want become involved and dedicate themselves to the organization. This is, btw, laso roman sense. In ancient times, as today, magistracies are not paid.

Cp�s are granted not only for offices and magistracies, but also for duration of citizenship and e.g. patrician status. So they cannot really be seen as a motivative tool.

If you ask me, the CP�s could be dropped if they wouldn�t be so vital for our voting system. I for myself would serve the res publica without any CP�s.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Censor, Senator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6856 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Digest No 386
Salve Illustrus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus!

Right! I will fix it soon! ;-)

> > Message: 15
>>
> > Salve Illustrus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus!
>>
>> As the Consul holding the fasces I want to publicly thank You for
>> your formidable work for Nova Roma and especially your Censorship the
>> two last years.
>>
>> In the name of the Roman people, the Senate and the whole Res
>> Publica, thank You very much!
>> --
>>
>> Vale
>>
>> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
>> Senior Consul et Senator
>> Propraetor Thules
>
>That's 'Proconsul Thules' now, isn't it? :-)
>
>Valete, Lucius Equitius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6857 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Birthday information , the Eagle and the Censors
No objection from your cousin, Flave. ante diem I Ides Quinctilis (14th July).
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6858 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
> Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

Salve Marcus Octavius:
>
> > With respect to the Censores, and I hope you and Pompeius will take
> > this with the sincerity it is intended, and not as a personal
> > judgement, I do not think it is prudent for Senators to be appointed
> > without consulting the Senate. It doesn't seem reasonable that two
> > men (well one)would have that much power, and maintain a republic.
>
> What do you mean by "two men (well one)"? There were two Censores
> last year. There are two Censores this year. And the two new Senators
> were discussed and approved unanimously by all three of us.

Pompeia: Exactly my point...to the exclusion of the Senate. In doing
so, there is the precedent that an indiscriminate Censor could 'stack
the Senate'. Yesterday I spoke with Drusus in this forum about
precedent setting. I think this is a far more dangerous precedent in
terms of 'potential factionalism' than handing out a few century
points to people willing to work for the republic.

I am sorry you do not care for my opinion, but it is nonetheless my
opinion, giving in good faith, for the benefit of the republic.
>
> > It is unfortunate that the populace was never afforded an opportunity
> > to discuss more concise wording with respect to powers of the
> > Censores, and the extent of their obligations to cooperate with the
> > Senate. So much fuss was made about the veto of Sulla with respect to
> > the gens reforms. But few realize that the proposals presented by
> > Sulla, better defining the Censoral authority were as swiftly vetoed
> > by his colleague/opponent.
>
> There was a world of difference in those two situations, as you well
> know.

Pompeia: The gens reform proposal formally started out as a lex
presented to comitia, to wit, the lex Octavia Salicia, and then the
major debates ensued in chambers. Unless I am having a brain fart, you
did not announce your intentions in this regard prior to you and the
tribune Astur presenting the lex. Prior to this, it was at best,
'casually touched on', if spoken about at all. Mind you I am no
longer privy to these archives, so it is your word against mine.
>
> The gens reform proposal had been debated in the Senate for an entire
> month and had undergone numerous revisions, in full view of every
Senator.
> The majority of the Senate was in favor of it - but because one man
> refused to compromise, neither the Senate nor the People ever had the
> chance to vote on it.
>
> The proposal to restrict the Censores, on the other hand, was written
> in secret and presented only in the form of a call for a Contio - too
> late to make any changes to it. My colleague and I had debated and
> negotiated for two days prior to that, and had agreed on a version that
> could be presented for a vote -- that was NOT the one that was
eventually
> posted. It was vetoed as much for the lies and trickery that
accompanied
> it as for its content.

Pompeia: So, because you thought the motive was illfated you
curtailed all discussion. I could say the same thing about the lex
Octavia Salicia. However, I choose to view legislation upon its
merits also. The lex Octavia Salicia was not 'all bad'; in my view it
was just incomplete. However, Salix Astur was pragmatic and just
enough to listen to the concerns of the populace and withdraw the
proposal in future favour of something more definitive and
comprehensive.

It sounds like there was a squabble (no!) between you and Sulla over
the Censores issues, and admittedly I don't believe I have the whole
story there. But you vetoed any discussion on the proposal, which may
have had some positive long term merits, despite your emotionalisms
toward your consular colleague. Why didn't you request that it be
rewritten, or state what you thought was wrong with it, instead of
stamping your foot on the whole thing, which is no different from your
colleague's actions regarding the gens reforms?



I assisted in the wording of a couple of paragraphs on a proposal
regarding the admission of Senators, in good faith, but I cannot be
responsible for any changes, dialogues or arguments between you two
privately that I was not privy to.

I maintain that you were too quick on the draw when you called this
one. Sorry.

Someone, somewhere along the line is going to end up using and abusing
this smorgasborg of administrative power, it is inevitable. I think we
should look at this issue before dictatorship becomes necessary to
correct things. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It doesn't take
a crystal ball to connect these dots.

My goodness!

Pompeia Cornelia




>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6859 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salve Pompeia,

> > What do you mean by "two men (well one)"? There were two Censores
> > last year. There are two Censores this year. And the two new Senators
> > were discussed and approved unanimously by all three of us.
>
> Pompeia: Exactly my point...to the exclusion of the Senate.

I was asking what "(well one)" was intended to mean... do you think that
two of the recent/current censores were puppets of another?

> In doing so, there is the precedent that an indiscriminate Censor could
> 'stack the Senate'.

The two Censores together could try to stack the Senate, but they can
draw from only a very limited pool of candidates (those who have served
in the qualifying offices or been nominated by Senatus Consultum).
They can be stopped by the Tribunes. Out of all the qualifying candidates
right now, very few are active and known to be loyal to one faction or
another... the possibility of this happening is remote, and no more
likely to occur than abuses by the Consuls or Tribunes.

> Pompeia: The gens reform proposal formally started out as a lex
> presented to comitia, to wit, the lex Octavia Salicia, and then the
> major debates ensued in chambers. Unless I am having a brain fart, you
> did not announce your intentions in this regard prior to you and the
> tribune Astur presenting the lex.

That is incorrect. Here is the sequence of events:

July 6th (morning) - rough concept presented on Consular Staff list.
July 6th (evening) - threatened with veto (still on Consular Staff list)
July 6th (evening) - proposal posted to Senate list. Debate continues.
July 28th - announced for voting by Gnaeus Salix Astur; first appearance on
main list.

> Pompeia: So, because you thought the motive was illfated you
> curtailed all discussion.

Discussion? No. But it had been put up for a vote (the Contio had begun)
without my foreknowledge. The version which we had negotiated upon a
few days prior was nowhere to be seen. The veto was necessary to
demonstrate that I would not tolerate being lied or subjected to
"bait and switch" tactics from a supposed "colleague".

> However, Salix Astur was pragmatic and just
> enough to listen to the concerns of the populace and withdraw the
> proposal in future favour of something more definitive and
> comprehensive.

...which also got vetoed.

> But you vetoed any discussion on the proposal, which may
> have had some positive long term merits, despite your emotionalisms
> toward your consular colleague.

No - I vetoed the bringing of it to a vote. Discussion was still possible,
and that did occur on the Senate list - where it was obvious that the
proposal had almost no support.

> Why didn't you request that it be rewritten, or state what you thought was
> wrong with it,

I did - I stated that I believed it was unconstitutional, disrupted the
balance of power between the Senate and the magistrates elected by the
people, and would make the office of Censor so impotent that we'd never
be able to fill it again.

> I assisted in the wording of a couple of paragraphs on a proposal
> regarding the admission of Senators, in good faith, but I cannot be
> responsible for any changes, dialogues or arguments between you two
> privately that I was not privy to.

Certainly - I do not place any of the blame for that affair on you.
You had no way of knowing, then, that he privately showed me one proposal
and then put something completely different on the ballot.

> I maintain that you were too quick on the draw when you called this
> one. Sorry.

Perhaps if you were the one who had been lied to by a "colleague"
you'd feel differently.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6860 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Some remarks from an outside perspective
Salve Solaris,

Sorry, I am a bit behind on answering my emails!

> I mean that right now I am outside every political alliance, public or
secretive, and
currently not occupying a politically important or influential position.

Hmm, well it is not necessary to hold an important or influential position
or actually any position to be allied with someone. But ok, now I understand
what you personally meant by 'outsider'.

>MOS: On the contrary, I know from personal experience that the feeling of
being cornered < will only draw more people into the arena.

I think the opposite will happen, but from what I see, I am the only one
with that opinion <oops>. Time will tell and if I am wrong, I will be very
happy to admit it. But I find that most people just leave an email list when
they feel that their opinion doesn't matter. All of us feel valuable when
someone agrees with us. There is safety in numbers- human beings can't help
feeling that way, since we started off living in packs...

> I have enough personal trust in the abilities and capabilities of Caeso
and the people he's surrounding himself with that everything will run fine.

I made a big snip but I agree with you. I think it is easier to have a
cohors with no more than 14 members, like George Bush :-) But then again
our Senior Consul is an extremely able schoolteacher and has a lot of
experience with a room full of people all looking towards him for guidance
(sorry to talk about you in the third person Caeso Fabius!)

< Also think of the fact that the people in his staff have not been born
without critical facilities. We <have both personally met Saturninus, Scipio
and Serapio. I can't imagine that these people would <tolerate corruption.

Yikes, I never mentioned corruption or even thought it! The 'c' word is
quite a nasty one and not one to be thrown around lightly. Yikes again!

chatty stuff:

DMA<< LOL!! Certainly a big problem in Belgium where the average person
brushes
<< their teeth less than once per day. But most times neither solution
works:
<< better to get a new girlfriend with proper oral hygiene! >>

MOS: I wasn't speaking from personal experience, in case you were
wondering :o).

Nah, I was being a wise guy/gal because I knew you could take it :o)

MOS< Well, you *do* have an outsider's perspective here in our country
<snip>

LOL! A well-placed low blow !! And true unfortunately! I knew that you'd
come up with a good come back and you didn't disappoint me! :-)

Vale and I hope to see you guys again one of these days!

Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6861 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Salvete Marcus Octavius et omnes:

Thank you so much for refreshing my memory regarding Senate Archives.

I will make this point separate from all the rest, as I do not want it
buried in the rubble, and I will answer your others separately.

The potential for Senate stacking is remote you say, if Senators are
nominated by Senatus Consultum. Yes, indeed! If a Senatus Consultum
utilized.

I totally agree with you, had their been a Senatus Consultum with
respect to the last Senate appointments I wouldn't be having this
discussion with you.

There wasn't........and this sets a DANGEROUS PRECEDENT for Senate
stacking and factionalizing. Three people appointed them, without
consulting the Senate. They are wonderful men......this time.

How do you propose the Tribunes stop these arbitrary appointments in
the absence of any reason under the consitution? A few reasons....too
young, too new to Nova Roma, never held an office.....still leave a
wide field of appointees......


Granted they were nominated earlier, and sadly, they lost because one
Senate vote was combined with another Senate vote to determine 'the
best of the best' as you explained to me.

I think the language of the Censores needs a spit and polish. They
are not clerks, but yet, they are not demigods either.

The worst case scenerio is that we couldn't appoint a dictator to
straighten out a mess, because the Senate wouldn't agree to it, for
partisan reasons......I think ahead, plan ahead, and it rubs off on my
thinking here in the republic. I don't want us turning into an empire
like the republica antiquita.

If you are trying to tell me that you are truly wonderful and that you
wouldn't 'dream' of doing anything corrupt and untoward, well that is
fine. I am not a goddess, priestess, your mother or a judge. But
that does not mean that in the future someone 'wouldn't employ avenues
(gaping holes) left open by untidy constitutional language.

At any rate, I think I have made my point to those who think ahead
with respect to potential outcomes of this republic.

Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6862 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

> The potential for Senate stacking is remote you say, if Senators are
> nominated by Senatus Consultum. Yes, indeed! If a Senatus Consultum
> utilized.

If the Censores are weakened, then the Consuls would be able to do
this stacking of the Senate with only slightly more difficulty.

Consider a modified system in which Senators were added by Senatus
Consultum, with the Censores being unable to stop it. This
effectively hands the Censores' current powers to the Consuls.
In such a hypothetical system, if these Consuls wanted to push
through a Constitutional amendment that was supported by less
than half the Senate, they'd begin by nominating some allies who
were obviously qualified and would probably get a few votes from
even the opposing faction; once these new Senators were in the
Consuls' faction would control more than half the Senate, and they
could add as many new Senators as they like. Once the "yes-men"
make up 2/3rds of the Senate, the Consuls are as kings.

Our present system wisely avoids this. The persons who create new
Senators - the Censores - have no power to introduce items for
voting. Thus there is less tempation to add a Senator so that he
will vote for a particular item.

Weakening the Censors will strengthen the Consuls. That is far
more dangerous than what we have now.

The Censores serve staggered terms, such that the senior has always
been in office for a year. The Consulship changes every year, but
the Censorship is more stable. While two persons of nefarious
intent could connive to become Consuls (and make a move to dominate
the Senate only a few months later), it takes over a year to do
the same thing to the Censores' office.

Proposing items for a vote, and selecting the persons who will vote
on them, should NOT be entrusted to the same people! THAT is what
will give us an Imperial system.

> How do you propose the Tribunes stop these arbitrary appointments in
> the absence of any reason under the consitution? A few reasons....too
> young, too new to Nova Roma, never held an office.....still leave a
> wide field of appointees......

Good point... if the appointment was not clearly illegal and the
Tribunes tried to block it, then it would effectively be war. (Of
course, the same thing could happen if the Consuls and Senate tried
to appoint a bunch of yes-men and then ignored the Tribunes' veto).

> But that does not mean that in the future someone 'wouldn't employ avenues
> (gaping holes) left open by untidy constitutional language.

Certainly... but weakening one element of a balanced system won't
fix this. It will make the problem worse.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6863 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
---Salve Marcus Octavius:

I do believe this is fruitless, but let me try again. There needs to
be a balance of power here, and a clearer definition of under what
circumstances a censor can say 'no'.

My main concern is that Senators are appointed at the 'complete'
exclusion of the Conscript paters, and you are not addressing this.
You are ignoring the fact that recently, a Senatus Consultum was not
utilized at all, creating a bad example, paving the way, giving the
'green light' to ignore the Senate and go one's merry way as a magistrate.

Although magistrates, by the letter of currently existing law 'can'
snub the Senate, 'should' they? They are the most august and highest
advisory body in the republic.....they are to be referenced and
ultilized as such,nonne? ......what else? for decorative purposes?

These are the things which smack of 'empire'

You would rather argue split hairs than say, yes, on the whole we
agree and we need to clean up the language so that the scenerios you
and I both present remain fairy tales as opposed to nightmares of
reality which could endanger everything we (and that means you too)
have worked for.

Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@c...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia Cornelia,
>
> > The potential for Senate stacking is remote you say, if Senators are
> > nominated by Senatus Consultum. Yes, indeed! If a Senatus Consultum
> > utilized.
>
> If the Censores are weakened, then the Consuls would be able to do
> this stacking of the Senate with only slightly more difficulty.
>
> Consider a modified system in which Senators were added by Senatus
> Consultum, with the Censores being unable to stop it. This
> effectively hands the Censores' current powers to the Consuls.
> In such a hypothetical system, if these Consuls wanted to push
> through a Constitutional amendment that was supported by less
> than half the Senate, they'd begin by nominating some allies who
> were obviously qualified and would probably get a few votes from
> even the opposing faction; once these new Senators were in the
> Consuls' faction would control more than half the Senate, and they
> could add as many new Senators as they like. Once the "yes-men"
> make up 2/3rds of the Senate, the Consuls are as kings.
>
> Our present system wisely avoids this. The persons who create new
> Senators - the Censores - have no power to introduce items for
> voting. Thus there is less tempation to add a Senator so that he
> will vote for a particular item.
>
> Weakening the Censors will strengthen the Consuls. That is far
> more dangerous than what we have now.
>
> The Censores serve staggered terms, such that the senior has always
> been in office for a year. The Consulship changes every year, but
> the Censorship is more stable. While two persons of nefarious
> intent could connive to become Consuls (and make a move to dominate
> the Senate only a few months later), it takes over a year to do
> the same thing to the Censores' office.
>
> Proposing items for a vote, and selecting the persons who will vote
> on them, should NOT be entrusted to the same people! THAT is what
> will give us an Imperial system.
>
> > How do you propose the Tribunes stop these arbitrary appointments in
> > the absence of any reason under the consitution? A few reasons....too
> > young, too new to Nova Roma, never held an office.....still leave a
> > wide field of appointees......
>
> Good point... if the appointment was not clearly illegal and the
> Tribunes tried to block it, then it would effectively be war. (Of
> course, the same thing could happen if the Consuls and Senate tried
> to appoint a bunch of yes-men and then ignored the Tribunes' veto).
>
> > But that does not mean that in the future someone 'wouldn't employ
avenues
> > (gaping holes) left open by untidy constitutional language.
>
> Certainly... but weakening one element of a balanced system won't
> fix this. It will make the problem worse.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6864 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III - VIII Id. Ianvarias MMD
Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III regarding the appointment of
Provincial officers.



I. The following citizens are prorogued to their respective
offices of Legatus Regionis:



Senator Marcus Minucius Audens: Legatus Regionis
Connecticut.

Senator Marcus Cassius Iulianus: Legatus Regionis Maine.

Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus: Legatus Regionis
Vermont.



II. Gaius Lanius Falco is hereby appointed as Legatus Regionis
Massachusetts and Scriba Propraetoris Nova Britannia. He is asked to
within one week, swear the public oath, using both his Nova Roman and
macro-national name, as found at
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-10-19-ii.html on both the
main and Nova Britannia lists.





III. This edictum is effective immediately. Given VIII Id.
IANVARIAS, in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, MMDCCLVI A.U.C.



Valete,



C. Minucius Hadrianus

Propraetor Nova Britannia

Lictor

Minerva Templi Sacerdotes



Patria est communis omnium parens.

"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6865 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III - VIII Id. Ianvarias MMD
Nova Britannia Edictum Propraetoricium III regarding the appointment of
Provincial officers.

I. The following citizens are prorogued to their respective
offices of Legatus Regionis:

Senator Marcus Minucius Audens:
Legatus Regionis Connecticut.
Senator Marcus Cassius Iulianus:
Legatus Regionis Maine.
Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:
Legatus Regionis Vermont.

II. Gaius Lanius Falco is hereby appointed as Legatus Regionis
Massachusetts and Scriba Propraetoris Nova Britannia. He is asked to
within one week, swear the public oath, using both his Nova Roman and
macro-national name, as found at
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-10-19-ii.html on both the
main and Nova Britannia lists.


III. This edictum is effective immediately. Given VIII Id.
IANVARIAS, in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, MMDCCLVI A.U.C.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6866 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
---Salvete Marcus Octavius et alii:

Well, I always keep my promises, or try, and I shall answer the
remainder of your assertions in the post below:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@c...>
wrote:
> Salve Pompeia,
>
> > > What do you mean by "two men (well one)"? There were two Censores
> > > last year. There are two Censores this year. And the two new
Senators
> > > were discussed and approved unanimously by all three of us.
> >
> > Pompeia: Exactly my point...to the exclusion of the Senate.
>
> I was asking what "(well one)" was intended to mean... do you think that
> two of the recent/current censores were puppets of another?

POMPEIA II: In any group of persons with common goals, there is
usually a leader. However you say your recent agreement with the
Censores and yourself as Senior Consul was unanimous. Ok, I accept
this. Yourself, the former Senior Consul and the office of the
Censores worked together to the exclusion of the Senate in the
appointment of two Senators. Actually similar actions have occurred
in the past between the three of you....to the exclusion of the
Senate. There is a name for this, Octavi. It is called a
TRIUMVIRATE....(gotcha!)

This doesn't make me feel any better about the current state of
affairs I'm afraid.


>
> > In doing so, there is the precedent that an indiscriminate Censor
could
> > 'stack the Senate'.
>
> The two Censores together could try to stack the Senate, but they can
> draw from only a very limited pool of candidates (those who have served
> in the qualifying offices or been nominated by Senatus Consultum).
> They can be stopped by the Tribunes. Out of all the qualifying
candidates
> right now, very few are active and known to be loyal to one faction or
> another... the possibility of this happening is remote, and no more
> likely to occur than abuses by the Consuls or Tribunes.
>
> > Pompeia: The gens reform proposal formally started out as a lex
> > presented to comitia, to wit, the lex Octavia Salicia, and then the
> > major debates ensued in chambers. Unless I am having a brain
fart, you
> > did not announce your intentions in this regard prior to you and the
> > tribune Astur presenting the lex.
>
> That is incorrect. Here is the sequence of events:
>
> July 6th (morning) - rough concept presented on Consular Staff list.
> July 6th (evening) - threatened with veto (still on Consular Staff list)
> July 6th (evening) - proposal posted to Senate list. Debate continues.
> July 28th - announced for voting by Gnaeus Salix Astur; first
appearance on
> main list.
>
> > Pompeia: So, because you thought the motive was illfated you
> > curtailed all discussion.
>
> Discussion? No. But it had been put up for a vote (the Contio had
begun)
> without my foreknowledge. The version which we had negotiated upon a
> few days prior was nowhere to be seen. The veto was necessary to
> demonstrate that I would not tolerate being lied or subjected to
> "bait and switch" tactics from a supposed "colleague".
>
> > However, Salix Astur was pragmatic and just
> > enough to listen to the concerns of the populace and withdraw the
> > proposal in future favour of something more definitive and
> > comprehensive.
>
> ...which also got vetoed.

POMPEIA II: I'll have to look. I think Astur withdrew it. Who would
or could 'veto' a proposal which is promulgated in part by a Tribune?
Tribs are not subject to veto, except by an interrex or dictator.
>
> > But you vetoed any discussion on the proposal, which may
> > have had some positive long term merits, despite your emotionalisms
> > toward your consular colleague.
>
> No - I vetoed the bringing of it to a vote. Discussion was still
possible,
> and that did occur on the Senate list - where it was obvious that the
> proposal had almost no support.

POMPEIA II: Well, why bother discussing something which doesn't have
a hope in hades of ever reaching a vote? But you are not the consul
this year, nor the Senior Censor, and I can only hope that these
issues are entertained again.
>
> > Why didn't you request that it be rewritten, or state what you
thought was
> > wrong with it,
>
> I did - I stated that I believed it was unconstitutional, disrupted the
> balance of power between the Senate and the magistrates elected by the
> people, and would make the office of Censor so impotent that we'd never
> be able to fill it again.

POMPEIA II: Maybe others will have some ideas on how we can safeguard
such important balances for the future integrity. That's why we have
a Senate and various magistrates. Not one of us has all the answers.
>
> > I assisted in the wording of a couple of paragraphs on a proposal
> > regarding the admission of Senators, in good faith, but I cannot be
> > responsible for any changes, dialogues or arguments between you two
> > privately that I was not privy to.
>
> Certainly - I do not place any of the blame for that affair on you.
> You had no way of knowing, then, that he privately showed me one
proposal
> and then put something completely different on the ballot.
>
> > I maintain that you were too quick on the draw when you called this
> > one. Sorry.
>
> Perhaps if you were the one who had been lied to by a "colleague"
> you'd feel differently.

POMPEIA II: I would feel badly about being deceived, but that is an
emotional ruling. How I 'feel' does not necessarily reflect what
actions I take which affect or potentially harm others. If I behaved
otherwise, it could be translated into "Don't make Po mad....or
else!"....others might live by that rule, but I try not too.

I'm sorry about your despair, but I do think the legislation had some
merit, and it is unfortunate that this, among many things transpired
the way they did.

Pompeia Cornelia
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6867 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Work Ethics,...........to Marcus Octavius
Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

> I do believe this is fruitless, but let me try again. There needs to
> be a balance of power here, and a clearer definition of under what
> circumstances a censor can say 'no'.

I believe a Censor should be able to say "no" under any circumstances.
They are the highest magistrates defined by our Constitution. The
People elected them, and trust them to make decisions, as much as they
trust a Consul or Tribune to make decisions.

> My main concern is that Senators are appointed at the 'complete'
> exclusion of the Conscript paters, and you are not addressing this.

The Senate does have a say in the matter, but not the final say. The
Censores rely on the Senate to make the initial nominations. Even for
Propraetores, who are qualified as potential Senators ex officio, it
was the Senate who initially selected them.

The Censores cannot make Senators out of people who were not selected
by the Senate (in the case of propraetores or special S.C. nominees)
or the People (who elect Curule Aediles).

There isn't a complete exclusion. The Senate and the Censores
both have a place in this process; but the ultimate decision is - and
should be - in the hands of magistrates who cannot propose laws
or conduct a vote.

> You are ignoring the fact that recently, a Senatus Consultum was not
> utilized at all, creating a bad example, paving the way, giving the
> 'green light' to ignore the Senate and go one's merry way as a magistrate.

I do not consider it a bad example, but rather a natural and reasonable
exercise of powers granted to magistrates by the Constitution, no different
than a Consul publishing an edict. The two Censores and one future Censor
conferred and selected two candidates (who had been reviewed by the Senate
months earlier, and received no strong objections). The final decision
was made based on their merit and not their political allegiances. When
it was announced to the Senate, not one Senator protested (publicly or
privately), and they joined us a few days later.

I consider the December appointments to be a fine example of the
system working as designed. Magistrates elected by the people made
a command decision, as they are entitled to do, just as the Consuls
and Tribunes do.

> Although magistrates, by the letter of currently existing law 'can'
> snub the Senate, 'should' they? They are the most august and highest
> advisory body in the republic.....they are to be referenced and
> ultilized as such,nonne? ......what else? for decorative purposes?

The advice of the Senate can be solicited, but it should not be binding
on the Censores - for then the highest magistrates in the land would
then be, as you say, decorative.

> You would rather argue split hairs than say, yes, on the whole we agree

I wouldn't say we agree... I think the system is finely balanced the way
it is, and that the Censores' powers are reasonable and no more a danger
than the powers of the Consuls or Tribunes. It is important that those
who make the laws cannot also be the persons who choose those who will
make the laws.

> and we need to clean up the language

I have no objections to cleaning up the language; I'm in favor of
clarifying, but not further limiting, the Censores' powers.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6868 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Scriba Propraetoris Nova Britannia
Salvete,

I would like to extend an offer to the existing Scriba Propraetoris of
Nova Britannia Iasonus Serenus Carolus Peregrinus, Tiberius Ambrosius
Quintilianus, and Hyapatia Asinia Margali to continue in their offices.
If any of these individuals are interested, please inform me sometime
within the upcoming week (6-12 January), so I may issue an edictum to
that effect. Thank you!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 6869 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-01-06
Subject: Re: Century Points and the Roman work ethic
Salve Pompeia,

> I accept this. Yourself, the former Senior Consul and the office of the
> Censores worked together to the exclusion of the Senate in the
> appointment of two Senators. Actually similar actions have occurred
> in the past between the three of you....to the exclusion of the
> Senate. There is a name for this, Octavi. It is called a
> TRIUMVIRATE....(gotcha!)

You got me there! We shouldn't have a triumvirate, so we'll have to
add a fourth... I'll see if one of the new Consuls is interested...

Seriously, though, the ability and the choice to create Senators
was soley that of the then-current Censores. They didn't have to involve
me (the future Censor), but consented to listen to my contribution.

[regarding the gens reform]
> POMPEIA II: I'll have to look. I think Astur withdrew it. Who would
> or could 'veto' a proposal which is promulgated in part by a Tribune?
> Tribs are not subject to veto, except by an interrex or dictator.

Right. He voluntarily withdrew it when we began talking about a deeper
reform, that would have required Constitutional changes - and was thus
subject to Consular veto. After that was dead, the Tribunes discussed
reviving the original proposal, but by then there was a Censores'
edict with the same result.

[regarding the alteration of censores' power]
> POMPEIA II: Well, why bother discussing something which doesn't have
> a hope in hades of ever reaching a vote?

A modified version of it could have been presented for a vote, if it
appeared to be widely supported in the Senate. But there didn't seem
to be much interest in reviving it.

> > > I maintain that you were too quick on the draw when you called this
> > > one. Sorry.
> >
> > Perhaps if you were the one who had been lied to by a "colleague"
> > you'd feel differently.
>
> POMPEIA II: I would feel badly about being deceived, but that is an
> emotional ruling. How I 'feel' does not necessarily reflect what
> actions I take which affect or potentially harm others.

There's more to consider than my personal anger, although that certainly
was a part of it. The dignity of the office of Consul was at stake -
one Consul had pulled a "bait and switch" on the other. If I had let it
go by without objecting in the strongest manner possible, I'd have given
him the keys to the kingdom, and myself been ineffectual for the rest
of the year.

No, I vetoed it for three reasons: I was angry at the deception; the
proposal was a bad idea; and the integrity of the Consulship had been
violated. The first of these by itself shouldn't merit a veto but the
others certainly did.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor