>I think that the Consuls wanted to avoid any further delay in filling
>the vital office of Praetor, and therefore scheduled the election
>as soon as possible.

----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass


> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass


> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Sulla Response: Humorous or not it is a telling remark. I remember
> last year that Propraetor Caeso Fabius had to fire at least two
> scribes for not doing their duty. How long did it take him to
> discover this? If those citizens still get century points for
> payment, what service did they render to deserve any payment. How
> long will it take for Consul Caeso Fabius to realize that members of
> his "consilium" are not doing their jobs. Now, since this is a
> "consilium" and not a government, should these individuals be
> awarded with century points? And, I must dispute your final
> sentence, my staff was not an informal club, it was a staff. This
> "consilium" is more like an army of clients.

> In a message dated 1/3/03 6:31:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, postumius@...
> writes:
> > I fully intend to perform my duties as an Accensus to this Consul, a scribe
> > to the Curator Araneum, and as
> > Retiarius for my Provincia (for which office, I might add, I recieve _no_
> > century points). And if this Senator would like to see my
> > century points removed for my services as Scribe and Accensus, I would be
> > happy to write a check for my points to the Winds and the
> > Waters. I neither need them (as I cannot vote at the moment, and when I
> > may, this will be a former office, which will then entail no
> > points, thereby not helping the weight of my vote in the least), nor
> > particularly care for them at the moment. What will I do with
> > them when I can use them? I won't have them!
>
> Good, you are a shining example to the work ethic of Nova Roman citizens.
> Hard work with no reward. Now if the rest of your tentmates will do the
> same, I'd have no objection to the Byzantine labyrinth Fabius created.

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:29 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A question on voting dates


Salvete,

I have a question regarding the voting dates. It is halfway between a
religio question and a political one, so the Religio list is in cc. In light
of my recent ML posts :-p, for the record, I am not at all *criticizing* the
dates, I just have a practical question because I am in the process of
organizing the run-off election to fill the 2 Tribune seats.

The reason why I am asking is because being very concerned that our Gods
look on our elections favourably, I looked at the calendar for a long time
picking out dates for the next Tribune run-off election. I was under the
impression that the *entire* voting had to take place during dies comitialis
(Citizens may vote on political or criminal matters). And now I see that
this run-off election begins on a nefaustus publicus (Public religious
festivals are celebrated. No legal action or public voting may occur) and
has 2 more in between. And I think it was the same for the last run-off's in
December.

So it is a matter of even if the voting begins or is held during nefastus
publicus, it is fine as long as the auspices are good?

Again, I do not mean any insult to anyone, I am just trying to learn!

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunis Plebis
Sacerdos Venus
http://www.gensmoravia.org

http://www.be.paganfederation.org



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass



And tell me if your going to buy from him.I'm going to try later.
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola <jlasalle@...> wrote:Terry Nix's stuff kicks ass







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and
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or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended
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original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Muscled Cuirass


> My friend forgive me for not getting back to you
> sooner ,but with the wife giving birth very soon I
> just don't get many ops. to join in on the site.
> First I must start by ask what price range are you
> looking to stay in?
>
> If you don't care about paying a little more than, the
> best that I've seen is by Terry Nix, whom lives in
> Texas "and yes I'm trying to get him to join NR" and
> the armor is just WOW!! Here is the site
> http://www.niximperial.com
>
> However if you want the cheaps than try another good
> guy in Texas that only sales on ebay It's cheap but it
> does still look good. "just not Terry good" what you
> want to do is just type in roman armor and this should
> do it.If it doesn't work just let me know. See you can
> buy from places like by the sword or swords and stuff
> but the prices may be higher for the same as the ones
> on ebay.I'm buying a helm from him right now so I'll
> let you know how good it looks,but I'll give you some
> others I've found on the net.
>
> And if anyone want to know where to find something I'm
> pretty.......sorry just wanted to say I'm
> pretty...Just joking !!but really if you want it I'm
> good at finding it.
> Gaius here's the others...
> "http://members.aol.com/gijchar/main.htm" he make some
> really nice things
> Joe Piela The Lonely Mountain Forge 153 7th Street
> Blakely, PA 18447 (570) 489-5163</P>
> "http://www.lawrensnest.com
>
> "http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Shadowlands/9344/armourlinks.
>
> Try some of these and get back to me.
> G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> current system :

> The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> countless voting rounds.

> Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> current system :

> The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> countless voting rounds.

> I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
> privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
> this accomplished?

>Salve Censor Octavi Germanice et omnes,
>
>Thank you for your prompt response and the valid points you have expressed.
>As you mentioned in an earlier message the system needs fine tuning and
>because it is still difficult to work out doesn't mean we should throw it
>away.
>I am glad to have asked the question and received an appropriate answer.
>
>Optime Valete
>
>Moravius Laureatus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:hucke@...]
> Sent: 11 January 2003 18:45
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] An unlevel playing field.
>
>
> Salve Corneli Moravi,
>
> > Can our officials express an opinion on a "one man, one vote" system
> > truer to our ideas of modern democracies and explain to me if there is
> > anything else but historical re-enactment and tradition to justify our
> > current system :
>
> We do it because of tradition. It's a tradition worth keeping. It gives
> our voting a much more Roman feel, and it is educational to everyone
> participating in it. The candidates, Curatores, Rogatores, and voters
> all learn much about how the Century and Tribe systems worked in
>antiquity.
>
> Additionally, the classification of citizens in centuries and tribes
> serves as an incentive to participate (more participation gains a better
> century placement) and makes fraud more difficult - it is pointless to
> create dozens of fake citizenships when all you'd be able to do with
> these is to dominate a single century of voters.
>
> > The main advantage in breaking with tradition, in my
> > opinion, would be to always fill vacant positions without resorting to
> > countless voting rounds.
>
> Actually, it's the majority requirement, not the century system, that's
> caused our current problem. A candidate needs 50% +1 of the centuries
> to win, and that proves difficult when the centuries are sparsely
> populated (some centuries don't vote their full potential).
>
> It would be even worse if not for the centuries - gaining 50%+1 of the
> popular vote, in a three way race, would be extraordinarly difficult.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor

> I realized I choose a password and an ID.

> I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
> privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
> this accomplished?

>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

> Today, we begin our third attempt to elect Praetores for this year.
> Unless something changes, it is likely to end in failure, just as
> the first two attempts did. Our election system, in spite of years
> of refinements, is still imperfect.

> Why? Because the process is not equitable. Some candidates are
> automatically discriminated against because of a status that has
> nothing to do with their candidacy or qualifications for office.

> The Lex Vedia de Ratione Centuriatorum Comitiorum, and its
> subsequent derivations, state:
>
> This is not right. The candidate preferred by a majority of
> centuries lost because the playing field was not level.

> Of the four candidates in the initial run for Praetor, two were
> Tribunes, one was a past Consul, one was a Propraetor. All were
> very qualified. The voters should have been allowed to make their
> own decisions as to whose past accomplishments qualified them for
> that office - yet the will of the voters was nullified on a
> technicality.

> Citizens, today I ask you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur, even if
> he is not your first choice. It is the only way to break this
> stalemate; and in a fair system, he would have won already. We will
> not be able to elect both Praetores right away - a fourth election
> will be necessary.

> Decius Iunius Palladius: .. In message 4983 you demonstrate to me
>that you:

> b) are willing to condemn the actions of others, and condone
> miscarriages of justice without knowing all of the facts. Indeed
>you took it upon yourself to pronounce formula, become Iudex and
>Jury, in the analysis of situations without an 'objective', but
>rather I feel, an "emotional" view of all the events. Not a apt
>demonstration of your knowledge of Roman Law, or its proper
>execution.

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius
> Germanicus
> <hucke@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> Salve Censor Octavi,
>
> > Today, we begin our third attempt to elect
> Praetores for this year.
> > Unless something changes, it is likely to end in
> failure, just as
> > the first two attempts did. Our election system,
> in spite of years
> > of refinements, is still imperfect.
>
> No system is perfect, censor. This one works well as
> it is. The
> problem is not the system, frankly as was confirmed
> in the second
> runoff, it is voter apathy. Not enough people in
> enough centuries
> voted.
> On a related topic, there were several laws voted on
> at the end of
> the year that won a majority of votes cast, but some
> tribes never
> voted at all, so the required number of tribes was
> not reached.
> No "paterfamilias vote" interfered with the passage
> of those laws but
> rather a lack of voter participation.
>
> > Why? Because the process is not equitable. Some
> candidates are
> > automatically discriminated against because of a
> status that has
> > nothing to do with their candidacy or
> qualifications for office.
>
> > The Lex Vedia de Ratione Centuriatorum Comitiorum,
> and its
> > subsequent derivations, state:
> >
> > This is not right. The candidate preferred by a
> majority of
> > centuries lost because the playing field was not
> level.
>
> There are many aspects of the Roman system that some
> could say are
> not "equitable." The century voting system, weighted
> classes within
> the centuries, etc. I think the paterfamilias tie
> vote is a Roman
> solution in keeping with the general framework of
> the system.
> I believe the simplest way to fix the problem is to
> go back to having
> a plurality decide the election. The two top
> candidates with the most
> votes are elected. I was opposed to the change when
> we stopped
> deciding elections by a plurality and would welcome
> a move back to
> that.
>
> > Of the four candidates in the initial run for
> Praetor, two were
> > Tribunes, one was a past Consul, one was a
> Propraetor. All were
> > very qualified. The voters should have been
> allowed to make their
> > own decisions as to whose past accomplishments
> qualified them for
> > that office - yet the will of the voters was
> nullified on a
> > technicality.
>
> A candidate can win now by winning the majority of
> centuries but not
> a majority of voters, if most of his or her voters
> were in the 1st
> class and 2nd classes and his opponent's more
> numerous voters were in
> the 4th and 5th classes. One could argue that the
> will of the voters
> was nullified there. There are peculiarities to the
> system from a
> modern's perspective, but that is the Roman system.
>
> > Citizens, today I ask you to vote for Gnaeus Salix
> Astur, even if
> > he is not your first choice. It is the only way
> to break this
> > stalemate; and in a fair system, he would have won
> already. We will
> > not be able to elect both Praetores right away - a
> fourth election
> > will be necessary.
>
> Marce Octavi, that is not a compelling reason to
> vote for someone. I
> would suggest voters vote for their first choice,
> whether it is
> Salix, Arminius or myself. Don't vote for a lesser
> choice for
> political expedience. Instead, encourage other
> voters to vote. If
> enough people participate, the system will work.
>
> If we go back to a plurality decision for elections,
> this problem
> would not arise again.
>
> Vale,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius
>
>

> > I realized I choose a password and an ID.
>Completely forgot them.
>What can I do?
>
>By the way, what do I need them for?
>
>Gallus Solaris Alexander

>
> Clearly, you and Sulla are determined to tear down
> anyone who does not
> belong to your faction and stands a chance of
> achieving anything useful;
> this might - oh horrors! - dim whatever you have
> achieved in the past.
> This would be laughably appropriate if you were
> trying to emulate... oh,
> several small-minded politicians come to mind, but
> I'll skip macronational
> commentary and invidious comparison - but it's out
> of place here, where it
> can be easily seen for precisely what it is. I
> suggest you give it up; if
> you persist in your attempts to stifle Nova Roma's
> growth due to jealousy,
> I warn you that the repercussions will be far beyond
> your expectations.
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

> Claris maiorum exemplis.
> After the forefathers' brilliant example.
> -- Part of the inscription on the House of Nobility
> in Stockholm
>

> I Concur with Decius Iunius that we should return to
> use of a plurality to determine the outcome of an
> election, though I would add that there needs to be a
> threshold for a winning plurality.

> I Would suggest that the threshold be set at 40% of
> the Centuries. In most cases this would result in at
> least one of the canidates being elected.

> The only growth we have seen for some time is a growth
> in the size of signiture files containing a list of
> titles some citizens hold and since the first of the
> year a growth in Nova Roma's bureaucracy, neither of
> which I find desirable.

> L. Sicinius Drusus writes, in part:
>
> > The only growth we have seen for some time is a
> growth
> > in the size of signiture files containing a list
> of
> > titles some citizens hold and since the first of
> the
> > year a growth in Nova Roma's bureaucracy, neither
> of
> > which I find desirable.
>
> My dear Drusus,
>
> There is no one here in NR whose Romanitas I hold in
> higher
> regard than your own, and I do understand a
> preference for
> simplicity in how we sign our posts. But really
> sir...,
> I think it's unnecessary to give people a hard time
> for
> identifying themselves in their .sig files as
> they've been
> asked to do by others here. If sig files are an
> issue, I'd
> much rather we first addressed the issue of sig
> files which
> have nothing whatsoever to do with Nova Roma at all,
> and
> which some people insist on appending with their
> every post.
> But even that I prefer to leave to the Praetrix and
> her
> able assistants.
>
> I am, I realize, a part of that bureaucracy you
> dislike.
> Perhaps you can take some small comfort in knowing
> that
> yours is one of the names I bring to mind as I think
> about
> each of my bureaucratic and magesterial actions.
>
> -- Marinus
>
>

> From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
> Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2003 02:41

> I suggest reading up on your Wilde, or perhaps
> Johnson, with a bit of Bierce thrown in for variety.

>
> Salve P. Corneli,

> From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
> Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2003 02:41

> I suggest reading up on your Wilde, or perhaps
> Johnson, with a bit of Bierce thrown in for variety.

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 07:50:42AM -0500, Patricia Cassia wrote:

Salve, Patricia Cassia -

> As Praetrix I sent a letter to the Ancient Domains people last night,
> politely asking that the spam be stopped.

<wince> Praetrix, I know that it was well-meant, but it was probably a
mistake. It is _never_ a good idea to reply to spammers; all it does is
confirm that yours is a valid email address, which immediately raises
its value on the lists that they sell to each other.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Difficile est saturam non scribere.
It is hard not to write satire.
-- Juvenalis, "Saturae"

> Salve Iulia Aenea,
>
> > I would like a picture by my name on the NR site, is this a special
> > privilege? Do I have to bribe someone with homemade baklava to get
> > this accomplished?
>
> Send the picture to Titus Octavius Pius (from@...), the new
> Curator. Send the baklava to me.
>
> Vale, Octavius.

> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:00:04 -0600 (CST)
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: An unlevel playing field.
>
> Salvete Senatores Luci Sicini et Deci Iuni,
>
> > I Concur with Decius Iunius that we should return to
> > use of a plurality to determine the outcome of an
> > election, though I would add that there needs to be a
> > threshold for a winning plurality.
>
> For once, I agree with both of you.
>
> The current system has been in place for about a year
> and a half... and almost every major election with multiple
> vacancies has had some problem since then. I think we
> should consider the absolute majority rule to be a worthwhile
> experiment that ultimately failed.
>
> > I Would suggest that the threshold be set at 40% of
> > the Centuries. In most cases this would result in at
> > least one of the canidates being elected.
>
> That's reasonable.
>
> Valete, Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://cynico.net/~hucke/

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:21:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...>
> Subject: Re: Size of signature files (was Century Points)
>
> Salve,
> My Problem with sig files stating titles is the legal
> implications. In Macronational Court cases
> organizations have been sued because a member of that
> organization made a personal statement on
> organizational letterhead or with an organzational
> title attached to a posting on a public forum.
>
> US Courts have ruled that this can be construed as
> speaking on behalf of the organization, rather than
> speaking as a private citizen.
>
> That is the reason my sig file states nothing more
> than my name and "Roman Citizen"
>
> I Would like to see all magistrates and citizens cease
> using titles in any posting other than offical
> postings on behalf of Nova Roma. My personal rule is
> if I post as a Propraetor or a Senator, then I'll use
> the title, If I post my personal views I omit any
> titles so that it is plain that it is nothing more
> than a personal opinion.
>
> --- "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> <equitius_marinus@...>"
> <equitius_marinus@...> wrote:
> > L. Sicinius Drusus writes, in part:
> >
> > > The only growth we have seen for some time is a
> > growth
> > > in the size of signiture files containing a list
> > of
> > > titles some citizens hold and since the first of
> > the
> > > year a growth in Nova Roma's bureaucracy, neither
> > of
> > > which I find desirable.
> >
> > My dear Drusus,
> >
> > There is no one here in NR whose Romanitas I hold in
> > higher
> > regard than your own, and I do understand a
> > preference for
> > simplicity in how we sign our posts. But really
> > sir...,
> > Perhaps you can take some small comfort in knowing
> > that
> > yours is one of the names I bring to mind as I think
> > about
> > each of my bureaucratic and magesterial actions.
> >
> > -- Marinus
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen

On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 05:48:22PM -0800, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

Salve,

> Salve,
> Growth Caius Minucius?
>
> The only growth we have seen for some time is a growth

Who, pray tell, are you trying to gather in under that broad royal "we"?
_You_ may be inclined to see only what you wish to see; I see growth and
positive change in Nova Roma. Please speak for yourself, or let people
who believe as you do explicitly state that you speak for them.

> in the size of signiture files containing a list of
> titles some citizens hold and since the first of the
> year a growth in Nova Roma's bureaucracy, neither of
> which I find desirable.

And - let me see if I follow your logic correctly - the fact that you do
not see the improvement that you would like to see is... what, an excuse
to attack people who are trying to improve Nova Roma?

Quirites, can *anyone* here follow this, or am I the only one who's
missing this man's point?

The issue at hand, in case it requires restatement, is that two sore
losers are trying to drag down a man who is doing his best for Nova
Roma, and throwing off scattershot chaff - completely uncaring of whom
else they might injure in the process. If you're trying to defend them,
please feel free to hold forth *on the issue at hand*, and I will be
more than glad to address any questions you have. As it is - and I'll be
plain here - you're throwing mud and trying to obscure the point. Truth
to tell, I expected better of you.

> For some time we have had around 300 active citizens.
> That is the area where we need to grow, not in the
> number of people managing those 300 citizens.

And what, exactly, are you doing to promote growth in that area? Or is
mud-slinging the limit of what you're willing to do?


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nil desperandum!
Never despair!
-- Horace, "Carmina"

> Salve Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis ,
>
> At the risk of you posting another 'I'll use so many flowery words that no
> one will understand that I've insulted them' email, I am wondering why are
> you so negative towards us ever since your very first post the other day on
> the SVR? Unless you are a long lost citizen returned, you are new here (not
> on the Albium Gentium) or not even a citizen. Would you like it if one of us
> continually posted sarcasm to the http://www.mitdasein.com forum? Not
> everyone would find that that forum interesting and well, I don't think that
> anyone associated with that Forum would like it if we posted any sarcasm
> there.
>
> On the other hand, fresh ideas and citizens are always welcomed, even if
> more 'humble' at their arrival than you have been, so why don't you suggest
> practical improvements (that are do-able)?

> > From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
> > Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2003 02:41
>
> > I suggest reading up on your Wilde, or perhaps
> > Johnson, with a bit of Bierce thrown in for variety.
>
> Hilarious.
>
> Salve.

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Diana Moravia Aventina
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Century Points (A Reply to Postumius)


On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 09:29:27AM +0100, Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> Salve Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis ,
>
> At the risk of you posting another 'I'll use so many flowery words that no
> one will understand that I've insulted them' email, I am wondering why are
> you so negative towards us ever since your very first post the other day on
> the SVR? Unless you are a long lost citizen returned, you are new here (not
> on the Albium Gentium) or not even a citizen. Would you like it if one of us
> continually posted sarcasm to the http://www.mitdasein.com forum? Not
> everyone would find that that forum interesting and well, I don't think that
> anyone associated with that Forum would like it if we posted any sarcasm
> there.
>
> On the other hand, fresh ideas and citizens are always welcomed, even if
> more 'humble' at their arrival than you have been, so why don't you suggest
> practical improvements (that are do-able)?

Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina:

To quote the bit you were referring to -

> > From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
> > Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2003 02:41
>
> > I suggest reading up on your Wilde, or perhaps
> > Johnson, with a bit of Bierce thrown in for variety.
>
> Hilarious.
>
> Salve.

I actually did not find this negative, or insulting. I realize that it
could be interpreted in several ways, and had several choices of
interpretation:

1) Positive (He found the implicit humor dry, piquant, and well worth
the $120 per bottle.)
2) Negative (He was making a statement about the writing rather than the
content.)
3) Subtly political (He was making an ambiguous statement in order to
have a way out later when accused of either being positive or
negative.)

I chose 1, because <shrug> hey, life's too short to go around _assuming_
malice. There are too many idiots who are perfectly willing to make it
overt, and there's no need to add to their number.

<smile> But I do appreciate your speaking up.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is man's wolf.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> And what, exactly, are you doing to promote growth
> in that area? Or is
> mud-slinging the limit of what you're willing to do?
>

> Salve Honorable Gallus Solaris Alexander!
>
> Write to the Censors <Censors@...> to get your voter code!
> Or go to your own page:
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=4650 and log in as Gallus
> Solaris Alexander with your password.
>

On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 10:21:21AM -0500, MarcusAudens@... wrote:

Salve, Marcus Minucius Audens -

> Master Scaevola;
>
> I think perhaps that you may consider sir, that Senator Sulla, was
> simply not aware of the term "client" as an insult. He seems, over the
> years. to have been very much tied up with the term, and has apparenty
> been so involved with seeking out and collecting "clients" under his
> banner to satisfy some unnamed need, that he has forgotten (or never
> realized) that the term "client" might be insulting to some citizens
> here in Nova Roma.

Since I've heard a bit of Senator Sulla's reputation and history, I
suspected that it may be something of the sort, and actually gave it
fair consideration. However...

As a metaphorical example, if a strange drunk on the street was to
address me as "his good buddy" in a fit of good fellowship and without
any ill intent, I'd either ignore him completely or deny the title.
However, if that same drunk was to then start pawing at any of my
friends who happened to be along, I would certainly respond in whatever
manner I found necessary to make him stop.

Senator Sulla is welcome to use whatever terms he chooses to those who
are willing to accept them; that is between him and them, and I suppose
that the "consenting adults" and "safe and sane" rules apply. However,
he needs to remember that whatever terms he may use familiarly are not
necessarily ones he may use to people he doesn't know in the world at
large; if it becomes necessary - as it has - I'm willing to remind him.

> It may well be that there are those in Nova Roma, who pride themselves
> upon being a "client" of Senator Sulla. There are a wide variety of
> personalities, after all, in N R, and I understand that Senator Sulla
> has a very pursuasive demeanor in one-on-one situations when he wishes
> to turn on the charm. He even has the ability, I am told, to make the
> term "client" sound positively attractive.
>
> I am not sure why he chooses to accuse the Honorable Senior Consul of
> something which he himself has been so involved with, however, like
> yourself, I have long ago given up any attempt to understand Senator
> Sulla's, to me, rather strange determinations and intents.
>
> Suffice it to say that, I am in complete agreement with you, that for
> me, the term "client," as might be applied to myself, is not a term of
> pride, endearment or respect in my eyes, and I should, be just as
> insulted and disgusted by that application, as it seems that you are.

I find it rather repellent; I suspect a number of other people so
slandered do as well.

> Welcome back to the world of the ground-pounders and land-lovers. I
> trust hat your cruise was a pleasant one, and that you are fully relaxed
> from your adventure.

Indeed I am, and thank you for your good wishes! St. Augustine is
beautiful, the sun shines brightly, and I'm happy to be here after the
many miles at sea.

> My thanks for your very extreme generosity in the
> item that you sent, and I will reply to your personaal message
> immediately, now that your communication problems are in the light of
> being resolved.

<smile> You're more than welcome; I hope you find it of use.

> A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
> white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
> gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
> flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
> Seas!!!

A .sig I've always appreciated, for obvious reasons...


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

>
> --- Caius Minucius Scaevola
> <pectus_roboreus1@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > And what, exactly, are you doing to promote growth
> > in that area? Or is
> > mud-slinging the limit of what you're willing to do?
> >
>
> 1) Pointing out that the growth you were bragging
> about is so far limited to the size of the Consualr
> staff is hardly mud slinging.

> 2) One of the things that is hurting our growth
> overheated politics. When the Issue of the size of the
> Consular staffs was growing heated I approached the
> Senators you are complaining about off list and
> offered my view that they had made thier point, and
> that continuing the discussion would harm thier cause.
>
> Caius Minucius,
> They have refrained from offering thier views for the
> time being.

> You are the one who choose to reopen this
> topic, and who choose to frame the reopened argument
> in personal tones rather attempting a rational
> discussion on the size of the Consular staffs.

> If the Senators that you are attacking choose to
> reenter this debate with the same kind of personal
> arguments you have chosen as the venue, then you have
> no one other than yourself to blame for this turn of
> events.

> On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 12:16:05PM -0800, L.
> Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >
> > --- Caius Minucius Scaevola
> > <pectus_roboreus1@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > And what, exactly, are you doing to promote
> growth
> > > in that area? Or is
> > > mud-slinging the limit of what you're willing to
> do?
> > >
> >
> > 1) Pointing out that the growth you were bragging
> > about is so far limited to the size of the
> Consualr
> > staff is hardly mud slinging.
>
> "Bragging". Do you have a problem with reading
> comprehension, L.
> Sicinius Drusus, or is it simply your inability to
> choose words that
> make sense? I'm afraid that's still unclear. Feel
> free to point out
> where I was "bragging about growth". And don't
> forget to look up the
> definition of the word as well.
>
> Railing against minor issues like the size of
> someone's signature in
> order to distract attention from the real issues is
> what I call
> mud-slinging. Now do you understand what I meant, or
> do you require
> further explanation?
>
> > 2) One of the things that is hurting our growth
> > overheated politics. When the Issue of the size of
> the
> > Consular staffs was growing heated I approached
> the
> > Senators you are complaining about off list and
> > offered my view that they had made thier point,
> and
> > that continuing the discussion would harm thier
> cause.
> >
> > Caius Minucius,
> > They have refrained from offering thier views for
> the
> > time being.
>
> They have offered enough of their views to be
> personally unpleasant and
> to attack individuals within a group of which I am
> part. It is not up to
> you to determine when a discussion will end; you may
> offer your
> viewpoint to whomever you choose, and they may
> choose to follow you, but
> that is not a sufficient condition. I choose to
> state my viewpoint as
> opposed to theirs; whether you like it or not is not
> an issue of moment
> to me.
>
> > You are the one who choose to reopen this
> > topic, and who choose to frame the reopened
> argument
> > in personal tones rather attempting a rational
> > discussion on the size of the Consular staffs.
>
> I suppose it would be against the list rules to say
> that the above is an
> outright lie, so I won't. *They* framed their
> arguments in personal
> tones by including an insult in one case and sarcasm
> in the other.
>
> > If the Senators that you are attacking choose to
> > reenter this debate with the same kind of personal
> > arguments you have chosen as the venue, then you
> have
> > no one other than yourself to blame for this turn
> of
> > events.
>
> <laugh> I live in terror of the event. Remind them
> to bring _far_ better
> artillery than your own command of the language.
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

> Ars longa, vita brevis.
> Art is long, life is short.
> -- Seneca, "De brevitate vitae"
>

> the point is I lost my password, I forgot it.
> What can I do?

> It is rather obivious that you have no intention of
> discussing any issues, but simply wish to use this
> forum to launch personal attacks against anyone who
> disagrees with your political agenda.

> If you wish to continue to harm your facton's cause by
> such tatics then that is your problem Caius Minucius,
> not mine.

> If anyone from your faction wishes to engage in a
> rational debate over what some of us consider the
> excessive size of the Consular staff, then I shall be
> happy to talk with them. Otherwise I have more
> important things to do than attempt a debate with
> someone who's postion seems so weak that they can only
> defend it with insults and threats.

>
> Salvete,
>
> Many people have lamented the situation of recent days, culminating
> with the resignation of one of our praetors. Citizens have said

> something in our system is lacking to allow this to happen. The
> system as set up now with the praetors in charge CAN respond
> adequately to problems in the public forums. The praetors were
> adequately empowered to deal with this "crisis"--if there was a
> crisis. What I saw were citizens engaged in a argument on a

> topic; I found some of it offensive on BOTH sides of the argument

> I'm sorry, I don't expect the praetors to interfere to protect my
> feelings or the feelings of others. I saw nothing in the discussion
> to threaten the state. The crisis was that one of the praetors

> offended by the discussion herself and instead of trying to

> the discussion, RESIGNED. I do not consider this a crisis, we have
> had people resign, we will again. If some of our more respected
> citizens wish to withhold taxes because of that, so be it. It is
> their right but I think they are wrong to do so. I agree people
> should be more sensitive to the feelings of others but can this be
> forced by the government? I do not believe so.
>
> Valete,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
> Senator Consularis

>
> No indeed; your problem is that you tried to set
> yourself as a defender
> of something that was, in truth, indefensible.
>

> Diana Moravia Aventina writes:
>
> > My congratulations also to the rest of the new appointees to the
> > Cohors Consulis of CFQ!
>
> Thank you, fair Tribuna.
>
> > I will admit that so many new positions confuse me a bit,
> > but I am sure that everyone's duties will become clearer to me as
> > the year progresses.
>
> It's not that difficult. The accensi ordinari will do all the work,
> and the accensi superior like myself will take all the credit -- or
> blame. While the three officina have nice official sounding names,
> they're really the Surprise Party Department, the Practical Joke
> Department, and the Fairy Godmother Department.[1]
>
>
> -- Marinus, with tongue firmly in cheek
>
> 1. A spelt cake for the first person to identify the reference.

>
> --- Caius Minucius Scaevola
> <pectus_roboreus1@...> wrote:
>
> SNIP
> >
> > No indeed; your problem is that you tried to set
> > yourself as a defender
> > of something that was, in truth, indefensible.
> >
> Indefensible, Caius Minucius?
>
> Have we reached the point where two Consulars
> questioning the need for a staff that is larger than
> all the staffs of the last few consuls combined is now
> labeled as indefensible?

> Have we reached the point of having Imperial officals?
> Ones who's actions no citizen or Senator can question
> without a barrage of insults from a staff member?

> Caius Minucius, your conduct is doing more to convince
> me that ther might be some substance to the charges
> that the apointments were made for political reasons
> than any of the arguments presented by Lucius
> Cornelius or Quintus Fabius.

> Gnaeus Salix Astur:
>
> I have read your request to the populace to be elected. Might I
> suggest that if you wish to be elected, answering the mails of your
> constituents,whether patrician or plebian, political 'friend'
> or 'foe' as you perceive them, should be on your priority list,
> nonne? "Selective" representation is not responsible political
> behaviour, IMHO.
>
> I penned you on December 17 expressing some concerns with the
> Praetoral election, and with some issues I thought you would address
> as Tribunus Plebis. I can understand the priorities of the
> Saturnalia Season, and that you were away for a few days. It is now
> January 11, and I am not holding my breath for a response. I
> didn't mistype the addie. I addressed both you and Arminius. He
> had the courtesy, caring and responsiblity to answer my queries.

> I guess I shall be voting for Marcus Arminius Maior.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I am very pleased to make the determination to place my vote for
> Praetor in the box marked Astur. You may ask why I would do so (if
> interested) and my reply would be something like this:

<<snipped>>

Thank you very much, sir, for your support. It is certainly an honour
to hear all those kind words from someone who is not only well
respected in our community, but who, in my humble opinon, truly
deserves all that respect.

You have spoken of my few strong points, and you have not mentioned
my many weaknesses. I will strive to be up to your high expectatives;
on that, you can rely.

>
> http://www.aztriad.com/religio1.html
>
> Above is a link to the text of a lecture I presented this morning,

> ---P. Cornelia Decio Iunio Palladio Senator S.P.D.:
>
>
> (waiting for Senator Palladius to get up off the floor from
>laughing
> so hard at my words of yesterday)

> You continue to focus on the issue of my resignation. Why? As I
> requested yesterday,may we *please* focus on the 'issues' I
>presented yesterday in debate, rather than making a joke of the

> If I can't talk to a founder about potentially serious long range
> ramifications of a lopsided constitution concerning civil rights
>and the condoning by magistrates/senators of hatemongering texts in
>this forum against Wiccans and Xtians,et al, without him making a
>big joke, and eluding the issues, this is indeed sad.

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: appointments in the Cohors Consulis CFQ


On Sat, Jan 11, 2003 at 10:21:21AM -0500, MarcusAudens@... wrote:

Salve, Marcus Minucius Audens -

> Master Scaevola;
>
> I think perhaps that you may consider sir, that Senator Sulla, was
> simply not aware of the term "client" as an insult. He seems, over the
> years. to have been very much tied up with the term, and has apparenty
> been so involved with seeking out and collecting "clients" under his
> banner to satisfy some unnamed need, that he has forgotten (or never
> realized) that the term "client" might be insulting to some citizens
> here in Nova Roma.

Since I've heard a bit of Senator Sulla's reputation and history, I
suspected that it may be something of the sort, and actually gave it
fair consideration. However...

As a metaphorical example, if a strange drunk on the street was to
address me as "his good buddy" in a fit of good fellowship and without
any ill intent, I'd either ignore him completely or deny the title.
However, if that same drunk was to then start pawing at any of my
friends who happened to be along, I would certainly respond in whatever
manner I found necessary to make him stop.

Senator Sulla is welcome to use whatever terms he chooses to those who
are willing to accept them; that is between him and them, and I suppose
that the "consenting adults" and "safe and sane" rules apply. However,
he needs to remember that whatever terms he may use familiarly are not
necessarily ones he may use to people he doesn't know in the world at
large; if it becomes necessary - as it has - I'm willing to remind him.

> It may well be that there are those in Nova Roma, who pride themselves
> upon being a "client" of Senator Sulla. There are a wide variety of
> personalities, after all, in N R, and I understand that Senator Sulla
> has a very pursuasive demeanor in one-on-one situations when he wishes
> to turn on the charm. He even has the ability, I am told, to make the
> term "client" sound positively attractive.
>
> I am not sure why he chooses to accuse the Honorable Senior Consul of
> something which he himself has been so involved with, however, like
> yourself, I have long ago given up any attempt to understand Senator
> Sulla's, to me, rather strange determinations and intents.
>
> Suffice it to say that, I am in complete agreement with you, that for
> me, the term "client," as might be applied to myself, is not a term of
> pride, endearment or respect in my eyes, and I should, be just as
> insulted and disgusted by that application, as it seems that you are.

I find it rather repellent; I suspect a number of other people so
slandered do as well.

> Welcome back to the world of the ground-pounders and land-lovers. I
> trust hat your cruise was a pleasant one, and that you are fully relaxed
> from your adventure.

Indeed I am, and thank you for your good wishes! St. Augustine is
beautiful, the sun shines brightly, and I'm happy to be here after the
many miles at sea.

> My thanks for your very extreme generosity in the
> item that you sent, and I will reply to your personaal message
> immediately, now that your communication problems are in the light of
> being resolved.

<smile> You're more than welcome; I hope you find it of use.

> A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
> white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
> gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
> flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
> Seas!!!

A .sig I've always appreciated, for obvious reasons...


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salvete amici,
>
> Some days ago I read in a magazine something that hurt deeply my

> Pride. It was an article by another freaky hinduist (yes, I'm

> the Guru Maharajá Bhaki Aloka Paramadvaiti Swami, German born and

> known as Ulrich Harlan. One thing is sure for him, and of course

> others: everything comes from India. Well, we all know that there

> raports between the Classical World and India: numbers, some

> stuff, musical notes, some religious ways and thoughts et cetera

> roots, that's not a news.
> But this man, in the middle of his enthusiasm, said and I quotate

> Spanish " All the Law Codes that the countries use come from the
> manusamhita, which was found by the Romans in Cyprus."
>
> Please Romani, the only thing I ask you is to tell me THAT THIS IS

> ENTIRELY TRUE!!!!
>
> Thank you very much.
> Valeria Constatina Iuliana.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger:
> http://messenger.microsoft.com/es

> I Would like to see all magistrates and citizens cease

>Of newer members only one Philippos Helios made a posting, and he's <from

>
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> Are century points really a stimulation for the citizens to involve
> themselves in administrative positions? I don?t think so. As in all
> organizations based on voluntary membership, you have a larger
> proportion of inactive members and a minor proportion of dedicated and
> motivated ones.
>
> The last fraction will involve without further rewards, simply because
> they want become involved and dedicate themselves to the organization.
> This is, btw, laso roman sense. In ancient times, as today,
> magistracies are not paid.