Digest

Selected messages in Nova-Roma group.

Jan 22 - 29, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7319	From: sa-mann@libero.it	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: bouncing test

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7320	From: aerdensrw	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Codes

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7321	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: EDICTUM CENSORIS: Renewal of last year's edicts.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7322	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: February Eagle Deadline Reminder

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7323	From: gabal505	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7324	From: gabal505	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7325	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7326	From: biojournalism	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Can someone put up a Web site about ancient Rome

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7327	From: cfd@diocletian.de	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: (no subject)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7328	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7329	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Can someone put up a Web site about ancient Rome

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7330	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7331	From: William Rogers	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7332	From: caiustarquitius@gmx.de	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7333	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Reminder of Bonus Eventus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7334	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Plebeians--why you need to vote in the election for Tribunus Plebis!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7335	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7336	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Age Difference

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7337	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Your Offer

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7338	From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Your Offer

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7339	From: Decimus Antoninius Aquitanius	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: test

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7340	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7341	From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: total war

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7342	From: StarVVreck@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7343	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7344	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7345	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7346	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7347	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7348	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: [ReligioRomana] A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7349	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: Age Difference

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7350	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7351	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7352	From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7353	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Plebs really the majority? (WAS: Mailing List for all Plebeian citi

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7354	From: John Morgan	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Total War Rome

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7355	From: John Morgan	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Rudius Inscription

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7356	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7357	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7358	From: Gaius Marius Merullus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Plebs really the majority? (WAS: Mailing List for all Plebeian

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7359	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7360	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7361	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7362	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7363	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7364	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: missed e-mails

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7365	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7366	From: cassius622@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Public Dioscuri Ritual, Monday, Jan 27th

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7367	From: cassius622@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Public Dioscuri Ritual - Text of Rite

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7368	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7369	From: Ivlia A.A. Mvsa	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Chat with me?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7370	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7371	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7372	From: Kyrene Ariadne	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: [[Nova-Roma] Re: A question regarding a Symbol]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7373	From: Gnaeus Salix Astur	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7374	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Gentle Reminder

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7375	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7376	From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: New online Latin class starting

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7377	From: Caius Minucius Scaevola	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7378	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7379	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7380	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7381	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7382	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7383	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Eagle

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7384	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7385	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Rhine River Patrol, Part 2, A Meeting

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7386	From: rexmarciusnr	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Senate Call

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7387	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Forum Romanum

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7388	From: Manius Constantinus Serapio	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Reminder: SAVE ALBURNUS MAIOR!!!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7389	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Today honors the Dioscuri

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7390	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Plebs really the majority?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7391	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7392	From: M Arminius Maior	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7393	From: M Arminius Maior	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: NR Demographics II. (was:Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7394	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Senate Call

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7395	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7396	From: Chantal G. Whittington	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7397	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7398	From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Quaest

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7399	From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7400	From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7401	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7402	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7403	From: rabotnik@	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Qu

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7404	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7405	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7406	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7407	From: Fortunatus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7408	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7409	From: Greg Rothenberger	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Greetings and belated introduction

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7410	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7411	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7412	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7413	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7414	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Last Call for February Eagle

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7415	From: biojournalism	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Hello. I'm new in the process of joining Nova Roma

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7416	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Hello. I'm new in the process of joining Nova Roma

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7417	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7418	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7419	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Qu

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7420	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7421	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7422	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7423	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Patricians Out???

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7424	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7425	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7426	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7427	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7428	From: Chantal G. Whittington	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: New Here

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7429	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7430	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7431	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7432	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7433	From: labienus@novaroma.org	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7434	From: Kristoffer From	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7435	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7436	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7437	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7438	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7439	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?) - Aediles wer

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7440	From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Absentia

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7441	From: Kristoffer From	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7442	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7443	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7444	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7445	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7446	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7447	From: Gnaeus Salix Astur	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE PRIORIBVS EDICTIBVS PRAETORICIBVS

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7448	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7449	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Patricians Out

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7450	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-To my cousins & fellow citizens

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7451	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7452	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7453	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-To my cousin G. Galerius Peregrinator

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7454	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-Sweet Sulis-Minerva! A Miracle.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7455	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7456	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7457	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Plebian / Patrician

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7458	From: labienus@novaroma.org	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7459	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7460	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Nova Britannia Chat Room Tonight - All Welcome!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7461	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7462	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-Sweet Sulis-Minerva! A Miracle.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7463	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7464	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7465	From: rexmarciusnr	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Roman Coins

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7466	From: lanius117@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Roman programs in February

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7467	From: Greg Rothenberger	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7468	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7469	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7319	From: sa-mann@libero.it	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: bouncing test

Bouncing test again!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7320	From: aerdensrw	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Codes

The citizen with the following voter tracking
number has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

#396, 645

Please remember to enter your code exactly as
it is given, and if you are unsure of your new
code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

---
Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7321	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: EDICTUM CENSORIS: Renewal of last year's edicts.

The following edicts of the Censores of 2755:

EDICTUM CENSORIBUS DE LIBERTATE GENTILIUM
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/censor-2002-09-26.html

EDICTUM PATRESFAMILIAS
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/censor-2001-03-02.html

are hereby renewed without modifications for the remainder of
this year 2756.

M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7322	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: February Eagle Deadline Reminder

Salve Friends

Just a reminder to all that the deadline for the February Eagle is JANUARY 27. That's a week from Monday. If you have completed your article, item or whatever please send it in ASAP.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEM
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7323	From: gabal505	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

I am thankful for your reply,
I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century movies and
literature. I am a history studenr and I was more likely refering to
Suetonie and number of other historians who contributed in the
Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and some things are
much more clear to me now.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7324	From: gabal505	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

I am a history student and I am very interested in roman culture and
life. I have read some of Gibbon but I was mostly forming my
opinions from Suetonie and authors of the Historia Augusta. Maybe I
was wrong to judge the whole society only upon their rulers and your
reply helped me to realize that.

The history of mentality is one of mine most favourite branches of
the history. I am thankful for a number of authors which I didn't
knew before.
Your reply has made me realize your goals much better. Thank you

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7325	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-22
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

A. Apollonius Cordus to "gabal@...", greetings.

You wrote:

> I have read some of Gibbon but I was mostly forming
> my opinions from Suetonie and authors of the
> Historia Augusta. Maybe I was wrong to judge the
> whole society only upon their rulers and your reply
> helped me to realize that.

You're not necessarily wrong to judge a society by its
rulers, but there are a couple of things worth bearing
in mind.

First, the culture of the Roman republic was in some
ways different from Roman culture under the emperors.
Although Suetonius was writing *about* events that
happened fairly soon after the end of the republic, he
himself lived rather later, when the empire had been
ruled by emperors for several generations. So his
perspective is bound to be a bit different. The
Historia Augusta biographies were written even later,
so the same applies. Nova Roma is modelled primarily
on the republic. Gibbon, too, was writing about
post-republican times.

The other thing is that Suetonius and the writers of
the Historia Augusta were aiming at a book-buying
audience who liked to read about gossip and scandal.
These subjects were popular even in the late empire,
when Ammianus Marcellinus complained that everyone
preferred to read gossip than his 'serious' history.
So the sort of impression Suetonius and the Historia
Augusta give is bound to be more 'sensational' than
most people's everyday lives really were.

It's also worth pointing out that the Historia Augusta
are considered generally not very reliable, and it's
quite likely that their biographies of some emperors
contain stories which were originally about completely
different people.

I hope this is of some interest.

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7326	From: biojournalism	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Can someone put up a Web site about ancient Rome

Can anyone put up a Web site about ancient Rome? Or do you have to
join Nova Roma and pay taxes? What if you already have a country and
just want a Web site?

I'm interested only in reading novels about ancient Rome,
particularly women's fiction such as adventure historical romance
novels that take place in ancient Rome or are time-travel novels.
Would I be required to join Nova Roma? Or should I include other
ancient cultures such as Grecian or Egyptian, Nubian, Brittania, etc?

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7327	From: cfd@diocletian.de	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: (no subject)

Ex Officio Censores Caius Flavius Diocletianus et Marcus Octavius
Germanicus Quiritibus SPD

In accordance with article II.c.3. Ordo equester Constitution Novae Romae,
it is our pleasure to announce the inclusion of ROMA ETERNA
(www.tarquitii.com) into the Macellum.

Citizen Caius Tarquitius Saturninus is given status of Ordo equester.

Given January 23 in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.

Caius Flavius Diocletianus et Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Censores

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7328	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Hi Gabal505@...

And since the citizens of Nova Roma have been so kind as to reply to you,
maybe you could sign your name (any name) to your emails so that we know who
we are speaking with?

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7329	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Can someone put up a Web site about ancient Rome

Salve biojournalism@

If you surf the web, you will find many sites on Ancient Rome that are not
associated with Nova Roma. So the answer is no: Nova Roma does not have the
monopoly on Rome, ancient or otherwise (I wish we did). As a non-citizen,
you can make whatever website that you want, *but* you can't use anything
from the Nova Roma website and you can't use our logo.

And I know that I really have a bit of a bitchy streak when it comes to this
and it's nothing personal: but could you sign your emails? Any name will do,
it is just that I really prefer having some sort of name to refer to someone
by.

Vale,

Diana Moravia Aventina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7330	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Salvete!

There is a mailing list that all Plebeian citizens should be subscribed to.
This is a very low volume list, so don't worry that your inbox will be
flooded with emails! At the moment, there are no discussions going on, but
in the event that there is a Plebeian issue that needs to be addressed, all
of the Plebeian citizens of Nova Roma should be there so that their voice
can be heard!

Send a blank email to the address below and I will approve it right away.

ComitiaPlebisTributa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

If you don't know whether you are a Plebeian, look up your gens on
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes and click the name of your
Paterfamilias.

Valete,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribuna Plebis

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7331	From: William Rogers	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gabal505 <gabal@n...>"
<gabal@n...> wrote:

> I am thankful for your reply,
> I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century movies and
> literature. I am a history studenr and I was more likely refering

> Suetonie and number of other historians who contributed in the
> Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and some things are
> much more clear to me now.

I am a new member here at Nova Roma (I joined about 2 1/2 months
ago). While not everyone gets along all of the time (Right Mr.
Audens ;-)), I have come to truly love the opportunity to learn and
grow here. This organization has MANY opportunities for one to learn,
grow, and meet great people from all over the world! Literally! My
pater Caius Tarquitius, is from Germany, and while he is here at
Emory University, we get together about every 10 days as a gens just
to fellowship and learn from one another (mostly from him, to be
sure!) I have learned quite abit about his home in Bavaria, and about
Rome also! Heck, this friday we are having a "meeting" to invite
everyone to sit and eat Roman dishes!

Nova Roma is an excellent opportunity to have some truly brilliant
minds across many, many disciplines to bounce ideas off, ask
questions of, and to learn from.

I hope you decide to join (sign up for the coolest gens, of
course...the TARQUITIUS! --Not that I'm plugging my gens or
anything), and wait for that long gens list to load and look at each
gens, then "move on in!" I believe that I can speak for many here
when I say we would LOVE to have you!

In Humility and Friendship,

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7332	From: caiustarquitius@gmx.de	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Sure we would welcome you. :) I am student myself. Always good to have
brothers in mind around.
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus

--
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.

+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr fÃ¼r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7333	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Reminder of Bonus Eventus

Just a reminder of the Bonus Eventus column in the Eagle. Please send any important positive events that have taken place in your life .
You know ie , books published, weddings, births, awards at work, school, Degrees conferred , retirements ,promotions, both civilian and military , elections to public office etc.
You get the idea

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7334	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Plebeians--why you need to vote in the election for Tribunus Plebis!

Salvete,

This is just a friendly reminder to all Plebeian citizens to vote for your
favorite candidate for one of the 2 vacant positions of Tribunus Plebis
(Tribune of the Plebs).
Why is this important? Because the Tribunes represent you in the government
of Nova Roma!

What does a Tribune do? Very simply put:

1)The Tribunes need to know the Constitution of Nova Roma and her laws to
make sure that no new laws are passed that are unconstitutional. The
Tribunes keep an eye on the big boys (the Senate, the Consuls, or any other
magistrate :-))), so that the rights of the people are not compromised. The
Tribunes have the right of vetoing the actions of any other magistrate, but
in order to actually veto something, the majority of the Tribunes have to be
in agreement. This is why 5 Tribunes are necessary: we also need a 'balance
of power' within the Tribunate itself.

2) The Tribunes can also propose new laws, which will then be voted upon by
all of the citizens of Nova Roma. Two of last year's Tribunes, Gnaeus Salix
Astur and Marcus Arminius Maior were quite active in this area.

3) The Tribunes also report what is being discussed in the Senate. Tribune
Marcus Marcius Rex will be posting the first Senate report of 2756 within a
week or so.

4) The Tribunes also organize the elections for the Plebeian offices
(Plebeian Aediles and Tribunes of the Plebs), which is why I am sending you
this email :-) It's time to vote!

5) And if any of the citizens are having any Nova Roma troubles, the
Tribunes are always available to help.

And lastly, on behalf of this year's current Tribunes, the best of luck to
the 4 candidates in this run-off election. We look forward to welcoming 2 of
you to the team!

Valete,

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribuna Plebis

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7335	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Salve, oh carissimus Publius Tarquitius Rufus

I very much share your feelings about being involved in Nova Roma. In
fact, I can read that we entered this community almost at the same
time. Nevertheless I strongly disagree with your statement about the
best gens. We all know ADRIANUS gens is actually the most active and
brilliant gens in Nova Roma, and our paterfamilias, Sarus, one of the
best men here. =)

vale bene

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "William Rogers <wlr107@...>" <wlr107@...>
Fecha: Jueves, Enero 23, 2003 2:06 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gabal505
> <gabal@n...>"
>
> <gabal@n...> wrote:
>
> > I am thankful for your reply,
>
> > I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century movies and
>
> > literature. I am a history studenr and I was more likely
> refering
>
> to
>
> > Suetonie and number of other historians who contributed in
> the
>
> > Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and some things
> are
>
> > much more clear to me now.
>
>
>
> I am a new member here at Nova Roma (I joined about 2 1/2 months
>
> ago). While not everyone gets along all of the time (Right Mr.
>
> Audens ;-)), I have come to truly love the opportunity to learn
> and
>
> grow here. This organization has MANY opportunities for one to
> learn,
>
> grow, and meet great people from all over the world! Literally! My
>
> pater Caius Tarquitius, is from Germany, and while he is here at
>
> Emory University, we get together about every 10 days as a gens
> just
>
> to fellowship and learn from one another (mostly from him, to be
>
> sure!) I have learned quite abit about his home in Bavaria, and
> about
>
> Rome also! Heck, this friday we are having a "meeting"
> to invite
>
> everyone to sit and eat Roman dishes!
>
>
>
> Nova Roma is an excellent opportunity to have some truly brilliant
>
> minds across many, many disciplines to bounce ideas off, ask
>
> questions of, and to learn from.
>
>
>
> I hope you decide to join (sign up for the coolest gens, of
>
> course...the TARQUITIUS! --Not that I'm plugging my gens or
>
> anything), and wait for that long gens list to load and look at
> each
>
> gens, then "move on in!" I believe that I can speak for
> many here
>
> when I say we would LOVE to have you!
>
>
>
> In Humility and Friendship,
>
>
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
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>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7336	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Age Difference

Mistress Aventina;

Now that is a surprise!!!!!!!! I have seen pictures of both yourself
and Senator Sulla. My thoughts were that your were quite a young and
very lovely young lady! I guess that I must now revise my sadly lacking
views in this area, and finally come to realize that you are instead a
very lovely and mature lady. I just can't seem to get anything right
any more!!!!

All the best my dear, and I look forward to the day when we may all meet
face to face. My wife is workng on such together with my oft-mentioned
desire to take a Danube River cruise through the Iron Gates and so to
the River's mouth on the Black Sea.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7337	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Your Offer

Honored Senior Consul;

Respected and Esteemed Sir;

I must most humbly apologize for the long delay in my response to your
very kind and generous offer to join your Advisory Group, and to take
charge of it. I am humbled by your faith that I could deal with such
wide and detailed task, and I am much grieved to respond that I will not
be able to accept your proffered position.

The reason for my delay in replying has been that I had been nominated
for an advanced position within my Civil War Reenactment Brigade. That
appointment to the rank of Brevet-Lt. Colonel has been decided upon, and
I have just recieved notification of such within the last few days. The
appointment necessarily carries with it a considerable increase in staff
and command responsibility within the Brigade, and the requirement for
attendance at more events than I had planned for this season. This then
will cut into my available time to work with Nova Roma. Additionally, I
have been approached to undertake an old effort in the Sodalitas
Egressus, which will involve a new program, new goals, and new
appointments within the Egressus. As you are aware, it was for that
reason

(to spend more time with the Militarium and Egressus)

that I did not choose to stand for re-election to an NR Magistry and why
I chose to step down from my post as Provincial ProConsul. There were
other reasons, to be sure, but those are the principal ones.

I am very sorry to be forced to make this last minute refusal of your
offered position, but I am faced with the offer of tasks to which I have
devoted much of my avocational life since I have retired from my second
vocational career, and this appointment is made in the twilight of my
active involvement with the New England Federal Brigade, an organization
that I had a large part in creating. I make this refusal with great
regret, simply from the lack of time needed for such an effort rather
than from any disagreement with yourself or your staff / policies. The
timing of this appointment was frankly unexpected, and hinged upon a
much larger involvement in historical reenactment activities and
involvement than had previously been planned for this year, back in
November of last year when last we met with potential Event Corrdinators
/ Sponsors.

I hope that this message will not endanger our personal friendship in
any way, and further hope that you will understand my dedication to this
reenactment hobby, which has turned into an unpaid third "career." I am
pleased at your Consular victory, and believe that Nova Roma is in good
hands with our present Consular Officers. I do not intend, of course,
to leave Nova Roma, nor to diminish my duties as a Senator, and I do not
intend to take a leave of absence. However, I find with this new
appointment and with my other numerous commitments, I have reached a
point where I cannot accept any further responsibilities for fear of not
being able to devote sufficient time an effort to those commitments
already made.

Respectfully and With Regret;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7338	From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Your Offer

Salve Illustrus Marcus Minucius Audens!

I too have hobbies that take a lot of time. Although I would have
needed You at the appointed position, rest assured that You still
have my respect and understanding. I accept your resignment from the
"Consilium Accensorum Magnorum" (CAM), (Council of Major
Assistants/Advisors). If this in any way give You the opportunity to
still give part of your valiuable time to Nova Roma I can only wish
You Good Luck!

>Honored Senior Consul;
>
>Respected and Esteemed Sir;
>
>I must most humbly apologize for the long delay in my response to your
>very kind and generous offer to join your Advisory Group, and to take
>charge of it. I am humbled by your faith that I could deal with such
>wide and detailed task, and I am much grieved to respond that I will not
>be able to accept your proffered position.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7339	From: Decimus Antoninius Aquitanius	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: test

ahem...

test

=====
Decimus Antoninius Aquitanius Organbidexka

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7340	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Diana Moravia Aventina, Tribuna Plebis. Salve, oh kind and gentle lady.

Pray tell, why do the plebeians need their own list. Since we represent the majority of NR citizens, shouldn't we just use the main list? Please enlighten me so that I may know the answer to this puzzle. Vale.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7341	From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: total war

Franciscus Apulus CAesar Omnibus S.P.D.

Have you news about this wonderful videogame
http://www.totalwar.com/rome.htm ?
I'm trying to buy it but I don't understand how I can do. And I want to know
if there is an italian version (or upgrade) or a demo.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7342	From: StarVVreck@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

In a message dated 1/23/2003 8:00:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

> Have you news about this wonderful videogame
> http://www.totalwar.com/rome.htm ?
> I'm trying to buy it but I don't understand how I can do. And I want to
> know
> if there is an italian version (or upgrade) or a demo.
>
>

It looks like the game is still being developed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7343	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

"Total War" looks kick ass.

You should check out "Praetorians"

http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/games/info.html?gmid=132

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: StarVVreck@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] total war

In a message dated 1/23/2003 8:00:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

> Have you news about this wonderful videogame
> http://www.totalwar.com/rome.htm ?
> I'm trying to buy it but I don't understand how I can do. And I want to
> know
> if there is an italian version (or upgrade) or a demo.
>
>

It looks like the game is still being developed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7344	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: total war

Rome: Total War announced and website launched January 20 12:47PM PST

Creative Assembly has released confirmation that the next Total War game is in development, and indeed, they have also launched the website for it. Rome: Total War will feature over 10,000 fully 3D units on the battlefield and an incredibly deep empire-level strategy element.

The goal of the game will be to conquer the Roman empire and set yourself up as Emperor. Battle units will include Roman legions, Greek phalanxes, barbarian hordes, and even elephants.

Check out the game's new official website for more information, including screenshots.

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] total war

"Total War" looks kick ass.

You should check out "Praetorians"

http://www.eidosinteractive.co.uk/games/info.html?gmid=132

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: StarVVreck@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] total war

In a message dated 1/23/2003 8:00:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

> Have you news about this wonderful videogame
> http://www.totalwar.com/rome.htm ?
> I'm trying to buy it but I don't understand how I can do. And I want to
> know
> if there is an italian version (or upgrade) or a demo.
>
>

It looks like the game is still being developed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7345	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

You all do have fine gens, even if your gens are made up of 57 year old poodle groomers still living at home with their mothers.

May I suggest the gens Basilicata? Amongst our ranks we have a Nobel Laureate, a five time Oscar winner, the inventer of the sandwich, and, of course, myself, Time Magazine's 1997 Man of the Year.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

Salve, oh carissimus Publius Tarquitius Rufus

I very much share your feelings about being involved in Nova Roma. In
fact, I can read that we entered this community almost at the same
time. Nevertheless I strongly disagree with your statement about the
best gens. We all know ADRIANUS gens is actually the most active and
brilliant gens in Nova Roma, and our paterfamilias, Sarus, one of the
best men here. =)

vale bene

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "William Rogers <wlr107@...>" <wlr107@...>
Fecha: Jueves, Enero 23, 2003 2:06 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gabal505
> <gabal@n...>"
>
> <gabal@n...> wrote:
>
> > I am thankful for your reply,
>
> > I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century movies and
>
> > literature. I am a history studenr and I was more likely
> refering
>
> to
>
> > Suetonie and number of other historians who contributed in
> the
>
> > Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and some things
> are
>
> > much more clear to me now.
>
>
>
> I am a new member here at Nova Roma (I joined about 2 1/2 months
>
> ago). While not everyone gets along all of the time (Right Mr.
>
> Audens ;-)), I have come to truly love the opportunity to learn
> and
>
> grow here. This organization has MANY opportunities for one to
> learn,
>
> grow, and meet great people from all over the world! Literally! My
>
> pater Caius Tarquitius, is from Germany, and while he is here at
>
> Emory University, we get together about every 10 days as a gens
> just
>
> to fellowship and learn from one another (mostly from him, to be
>
> sure!) I have learned quite abit about his home in Bavaria, and
> about
>
> Rome also! Heck, this friday we are having a "meeting"
> to invite
>
> everyone to sit and eat Roman dishes!
>
>
>
> Nova Roma is an excellent opportunity to have some truly brilliant
>
> minds across many, many disciplines to bounce ideas off, ask
>
> questions of, and to learn from.
>
>
>
> I hope you decide to join (sign up for the coolest gens, of
>
> course...the TARQUITIUS! --Not that I'm plugging my gens or
>
> anything), and wait for that long gens list to load and look at
> each
>
> gens, then "move on in!" I believe that I can speak for
> many here
>
> when I say we would LOVE to have you!
>
>
>
> In Humility and Friendship,
>
>
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7346	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-23
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Salve Shouldn't that read "RomanTimes, Man of the Year"

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:51 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen

You all do have fine gens, even if your gens are made up of 57 year old poodle groomers still living at home with their mothers.

May I suggest the gens Basilicata? Amongst our ranks we have a Nobel Laureate, a five time Oscar winner, the inventer of the sandwich, and, of course, myself, Time Magazine's 1997 Man of the Year.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

Salve, oh carissimus Publius Tarquitius Rufus

I very much share your feelings about being involved in Nova Roma. In
fact, I can read that we entered this community almost at the same
time. Nevertheless I strongly disagree with your statement about the
best gens. We all know ADRIANUS gens is actually the most active and
brilliant gens in Nova Roma, and our paterfamilias, Sarus, one of the
best men here. =)

vale bene

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "William Rogers <wlr107@...>" <wlr107@...>
Fecha: Jueves, Enero 23, 2003 2:06 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gabal505
> <gabal@n...>"
>
> <gabal@n...> wrote:
>
> > I am thankful for your reply,
>
> > I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century movies and
>
> > literature. I am a history studenr and I was more likely
> refering
>
> to
>
> > Suetonie and number of other historians who contributed in
> the
>
> > Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and some things
> are
>
> > much more clear to me now.
>
>
>
> I am a new member here at Nova Roma (I joined about 2 1/2 months
>
> ago). While not everyone gets along all of the time (Right Mr.
>
> Audens ;-)), I have come to truly love the opportunity to learn
> and
>
> grow here. This organization has MANY opportunities for one to
> learn,
>
> grow, and meet great people from all over the world! Literally! My
>
> pater Caius Tarquitius, is from Germany, and while he is here at
>
> Emory University, we get together about every 10 days as a gens
> just
>
> to fellowship and learn from one another (mostly from him, to be
>
> sure!) I have learned quite abit about his home in Bavaria, and
> about
>
> Rome also! Heck, this friday we are having a "meeting"
> to invite
>
> everyone to sit and eat Roman dishes!
>
>
>
> Nova Roma is an excellent opportunity to have some truly brilliant
>
> minds across many, many disciplines to bounce ideas off, ask
>
> questions of, and to learn from.
>
>
>
> I hope you decide to join (sign up for the coolest gens, of
>
> course...the TARQUITIUS! --Not that I'm plugging my gens or
>
> anything), and wait for that long gens list to load and look at
> each
>
> gens, then "move on in!" I believe that I can speak for
> many here
>
> when I say we would LOVE to have you!
>
>
>
> In Humility and Friendship,
>
>
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor</b></font></td></tr>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
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> src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.co</td> </tr> </table></td>
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> <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
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M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:H</td></tr></table>
>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7347	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: A question regarding a Symbol

Salvete,

In my wanderings online I came across what appears to be an astrological
symbol, (similar to the planetary symbols for Mars, Venus, Luna,
etc)that supposedly represents Minerva/Athena. I have provided a link to
an image of the symbol:

http://www.shinjikun.com/minerva_symbol.htm

Can any one tell me anything about this symbol? Is it legitimate? If so,
how and when would it have been used? In Classical times? Or as a
Medieval occult symbol?

Thanks!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Â
Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7348	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: [ReligioRomana] A question regarding a Symbol

Salve C. Minucius Hadrianus,

I found that symbol in Barbar Walkers book 'A women's encyclopaedia of
symbols and sacred objects.'
Now I have heard that Barbara Walker makes connections to symbols where
there aren't any, but since I am not a symbol expert, I have no idea
whether that is true or not. It is even possible that you found that symbol
on a website that took this symbol/info from her book.anyway, i scanned in
the info that went with the symbol.
Vale,
Diana Moravia

Athene
Sulphur used to be sacred to Athene as a Goddess of healing and
purification, when people believed that burning brimstone (sulphur) would
drive away the spirits of disÂease. The element was named after her under
the title of Brimo, virgin mother of the Holy Child Brimus. Alchemists
therefore used the sign of Athene for sulphur; which they were always trying
to combine with mercury in a "marriage of Athene and Hermes," believing this
process could make gold. It never did.
Athene was much older than the city of Athens that finally adopted her as
its patron. Her origin was not even Greek. She was the Libyan Triple
Goddess, varÂiously named Neith, Metis, Medusa, AnÂath, or Ath-enna;
Egyptians said Athene was a title of Isis and it meant "I have come from
myself."' Athene's display of the Gorgon head on her aegis referred to her
own Destroyer aspect. Her Crone self, Medusa-Metis, was twice mythologized
as Perseus's petrifying monster and as Athene's mother, who was swallowed by
Zeus in order that he might give birth to Athene from his own head. This
male birth imitation was often cited to show that Athene recognized no
mother and gave all her loyalty to her heavenly father; but its real meaning
was that Athene was his Sophia, his wisdom, the guiding female spirit within
his head.
The name of Athene's major temple, the Parthenon, means "Virgin-house."
Athene was "virgin" in the old sense: independent of male attachments, a
spouse to none, a free agent. Yet, accordÂing to archaic traditions, she had
lovers: Pan and Hephaestus, for example. Her sign represents female
self-determination, freeÂdom, and great skill in the civilized arts, of
which she was supposed to have been humanity's primary teacher.

1. Budge, G.E. 1, 459. 2. Graves, G.M. I,

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7349	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: Age Difference

Salve dear Marcus Minucius Audens!

> Now that is a surprise!!!!!!!! I have seen pictures of both yourself

< and Senator Sulla. My thoughts were that your were quite a young and
< very lovely young lady!
Thank you! I'm still quite young on the inside, having stopped aging
mentally sometime around the age of 18 <giggle>. The Albium gentium photo
was taken last April on my 41st birthday for my curriculum vitae. I snapped
20 pictures and then picked out the best one. The rejected photos were
quickly deleted before anyone saw them :-)

The gentlemen between 50 and 75 years old think that I am a nice 'young'
lady so age is relative and beauty is still in the eye of the beholder :-))

> All the best my dear, and I look forward to the day when we may all meet
> face to face.

Me too!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7350	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: question from a potential citizen

Salve,
Dear Agrciola...LOL

ANTONIUS ADRIANUS URCITANUS

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@...>
Fecha: Viernes, Enero 24, 2003 4:48 am
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> You all do have fine gens, even if your gens are made up of 57
> year old poodle groomers still living at home with their mothers.
>
>
>
> May I suggest the gens Basilicata? Amongst our ranks we have a
> Nobel Laureate, a five time Oscar winner, the inventer of the
> sandwich, and, of course, myself, Time Magazine's 1997 Man of the
> Year.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve, oh carissimus Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>
>
>
> I very much share your feelings about being involved in Nova
> Roma. In
>
> fact, I can read that we entered this community almost at the
> same
>
> time. Nevertheless I strongly disagree with your statement about
> the
>
> best gens. We all know ADRIANUS gens is actually the most active
> and
>
> brilliant gens in Nova Roma, and our paterfamilias, Sarus, one
> of the
>
> best men here. =)
>
>
>
> vale bene
>
>
>
> antonius adrianus urcitanus
>
>
>
> ----- Mensaje Original -----
>
> De: "William Rogers <wlr107@...>"
> <wlr107@...>
> Fecha: Jueves, Enero 23, 2003 2:06 pm
>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: question from a potential citizen
>
>
>
> > <html><body>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > <tt>
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gabal505
>
> > <gabal@n...>"
>
> >
>
> > <gabal@n...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I am thankful for your reply,
>
> >
>
> > > I haven't based my opinion solely on 20th century
> movies and
>
> >
>
> > > literature. I am a history studenr and I was more
> likely
>
> > refering
>
> >
>
> > to
>
> >
>
> > > Suetonie and number of other historians who
> contributed in
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > Historia Augusta. Your reply was very helpful and
> some things
>
> > are
>
> >
>
> > > much more clear to me now.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am a new member here at Nova Roma (I joined about 2 1/2
> months
>
> >
>
> > ago). While not everyone gets along all of the time (Right
> Mr.
>
> >
>
> > Audens ;-)), I have come to truly love the opportunity to
> learn
>
> > and
>
> >
>
> > grow here. This organization has MANY opportunities for one
> to
>
> > learn,
>
> >
>
> > grow, and meet great people from all over the world!
> Literally! My
>
> >
>
> > pater Caius Tarquitius, is from Germany, and while he is
> here at
>
> >
>
> > Emory University, we get together about every 10 days as a
> gens
>
> > just
>
> >
>
> > to fellowship and learn from one another (mostly from him,
> to be
>
> >
>
> > sure!) I have learned quite abit about his home in Bavaria,
> and
>
> > about
>
> >
>
> > Rome also! Heck, this friday we are having a
> "meeting"
>
> > to invite
>
> >
>
> > everyone to sit and eat Roman dishes!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nova Roma is an excellent opportunity to have some truly
> brilliant
>
> >
>
> > minds across many, many disciplines to bounce ideas off,
> ask
>
> >
>
> > questions of, and to learn from.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I hope you decide to join (sign up for the coolest gens, of
>
> >
>
> > course...the TARQUITIUS! --Not that I'm plugging my gens or
>
> >
>
> > anything), and wait for that long gens list to load and
> look at
>
> > each
>
> >
>
> > gens, then "move on in!" I believe that I
> can speak for
>
> > many here
>
> >
>
> > when I say we would LOVE to have you!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In Humility and Friendship,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > </tt>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 
>
> >
>
> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
>
> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
>
> > <td align=center><font size="-1"
> color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
>
> > Sponsor</b></font></td></tr>
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> >
>
> >
>
> > src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7351	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Salve F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus,

< Pray tell, why do the plebeians need their own list. Since we represent
the majority of NR < <citizens, shouldn't we just use the main list?
Please enlighten me so that I may know < the <answer to this puzzle. Vale.

Good question. Unfortunately, Yahoogroups is treating me very badly today
and won't let me look into the archives of the list to see if there was any
mention of why the list was made.

Looking to the constitution for the answers, I can see 2 reasons why the
Plebeians would want to have their own list: III.c & III.c.3.

1) Only the comitia plebis tributa shall pass laws governing the rules by
which it shall operate internally.
2) To try legal cases solely involving members of the plebeian order that do
not involve permanent removal of citizenship.
In 2, a private list would be better for the Plebeian in question rather
than having his/her case tried on the main list amongst non-citizens and
Patrician citizens whose opinion may influence the proceedings.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7352	From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Apollonia Acta -- Weekly Roman News and Archeology

Salvete,

please find the latest news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

and enjoy them...

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7353	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-24
Subject: Plebs really the majority? (WAS: Mailing List for all Plebeian citi

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Aurelianus Secundus said:

> Since we represent the majority of NR citizens

('We' being the plebs)

I'd be interested to know, actually, whether active
plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians by
any substantial margin, or indeed at all.

No doubt we'll have to wait for the census to tell us
definitively, but has anyone any indicative evidence
or experience?

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7354	From: John Morgan	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Total War Rome

Well I must agree, for us RTS games, it does look great. I have
played Shogun, and medieval, and was truly impressed. The supposed
release date is going to be early summer, so keep your fingers
crossed that it makes it.

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Propraetor, AAO

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7355	From: John Morgan	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Rudius Inscription

Can anyone tell me what the inscription carved ito a rudius said.

Pontius Sejanus Marius

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7356	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

"Basilicata"

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: John Morgan <fulminata@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rudius Inscription

Can anyone tell me what the inscription carved ito a rudius said.

Pontius Sejanus Marius

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7357	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Mailing List for all Plebeian citizens

Salvete Quirites,
At the time the list was formed the Tribunes weren't
allowed to promulgate leges before the Comitia Populi
Tributa. They were under the same limits as the
ancient Tribunes of only being able to promulgate in
the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

The Comitia Plebis Tributa wasn't being used because
our ahistoric ratio of Patricians to Plebians made it
far more undemocratic than the Comitia Plebis Tributa
of Antiquita. In Antiquita the Plebs were well over
99% of the citizens so barring Patricians wasn't as
unfair as it would be in our nation where Patricians
are a far larger percentage of the population.

One facton, which couldn't get a Consul to introduce
legislation they favored, was intent on using the
Tribunes to pass that legislation through the Comitia
Plebis Tributa. The list was started in preparation
for the effort to introduce a legislative program
before Comitia Plebis Tributa.

This list will become more important when the ratio of
Plebians becomes high enough so that the Tribunes can
promulgate before the Comitia Plebis Tributa. In the
meantime it is important to keep the Plebian
traditions alive, and I urge that all Plebs to
subscribe to the list.

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

> Salve F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus,
>
> < Pray tell, why do the plebeians need their own
> list. Since we represent
> the majority of NR < <citizens, shouldn't we just
> use the main list?
> Please enlighten me so that I may know < the
> <answer to this puzzle. Vale.
>
> Good question. Unfortunately, Yahoogroups is
> treating me very badly today
> and won't let me look into the archives of the list
> to see if there was any
> mention of why the list was made.
>
> Looking to the constitution for the answers, I can
> see 2 reasons why the
> Plebeians would want to have their own list: III.c &
> III.c.3.
>
> 1) Only the comitia plebis tributa shall pass laws
> governing the rules by
> which it shall operate internally.
> 2) To try legal cases solely involving members of
> the plebeian order that do
> not involve permanent removal of citizenship.
> In 2, a private list would be better for the
> Plebeian in question rather
> than having his/her case tried on the main list
> amongst non-citizens and
> Patrician citizens whose opinion may influence the
> proceedings.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina
> Tribunus Plebis
>
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7358	From: Gaius Marius Merullus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Plebs really the majority? (WAS: Mailing List for all Plebeian

Salvete A Apolloni et alii

I really don't know the answer to your question but can say, based on NR
statistics available on the website (the citizen count on the homepage and
the album gentium), plebeians do form the majority of the population,
apparently about 2/3. Of course these figures do not address the "active"
question. In the absence of any hard data, I would guess that the patrician
order may have a slightly higher proportion of people voting and running for
office (given that the patrician order consists of both NR's longest-running
citizens and some elevated from the plebeian order in recognition of
contribution or commitment), and that in light of this the absolute number
of really active people, in those terms, is probably about evenly divided
between the two orders. Plebeians, to my observation, are the majority of
active contributors to this forum.

The good news for me, since we're on the subject of demographics, is that
the plebeian order is in the majority and growing in a more cohesive fashion
than it was 3 years ago. That is, going back that far in the past, the
plebeian order consisted almost exclusivley of single and couple gentes;
whereas it now has several larger, even 10+ member gentes.

Valete

C Marius Merullus
patrician

:A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
:greetings.
:
:
:I'd be interested to know, actually, whether active
:plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians by
:any substantial margin, or indeed at all.
:
:No doubt we'll have to wait for the census to tell us
:definitively, but has anyone any indicative evidence
:or experience?
:

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7359	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Â
Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7360	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@s...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and

Franciscus

> Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.
>
> www.shinjikun.com
>
> Thank you for the help!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7361	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salve,

Thanks for the heads up! I had the top frame accidentally set to a
percentage, instead of a specific pixel height. It should be fine now.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>
[mailto:richmal@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:21 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@s...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and

Franciscus

> Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.
>
> www.shinjikun.com
>
> Thank you for the help!

Salve,

Very well done. Only one thing that I can see is a problem. It may
just be my resolution and browser but the bottom half of the top
frame (the quote from Cicero, or at least I think its Cicero) is cut
off.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7362	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

> an image of the symbol:
>
> http://www.shinjikun.com/minerva_symbol.htm
>
> Can any one tell me anything about this symbol? Is it legitimate?

If so,

> how and when would it have been used? In Classical times? Or as a
> Medieval occult symbol?

Salve,

Though I know Diana MorAvia <wink> has answered this question in
part, it did pique my curiosity to do a little research. Apparently
the symbol in question is one of the many alchemical symbols for
sulfer. Sulfer since it burns represents the primal element of fire
and is considered "male." Combined with Mercury which representsthe
primal element of water (and for some reason considered female, was
Mercury a hermaphodite? I don't remember off the top of my head)
Combined they were suppose to represent the union of male-female
(gold).

As for the sulfer/Athena/Minerva connection, its a bit sketchy
there. Sulfer is connected to the minor Greek/Thracian goddess
Brimo. Searching on Brimo I've found her to be listed as a goddess
of fertility and also as death. I find the death connection a bit
strange since it was Atropos that cut the thread of life and Hectate
that linked the underworld to the mortal realms. On the other hand
other sources link Brimo to be an aspect of Athena when she was
angry. As with anything that was passed down word of mouth before
being written down things tend to get blended together making it
difficult to really sort out. Given that Brimo/Athena were Greco-
Thracian goddesses the only real connection would be that the
qualities of Athena tend to coincide with the qualities of Minerva.
But the real question being is; "Are Minerva and Athena one and the
same?" Without meaning to offend, I'd say no. Minerva is the
product of Eutruscan/Roman origin and Brimo/Athena of Greco-Thracian
origins.

Wisdom was recognized through out the ancient world (and sadly
forgotten in most cases today). In the Catholic canon of the Old
Testament scripture is a book called "Wisdom." If I may quote
without giving offense; "Now what Wisdom is, and how she came to be,
I shall relate; and I shall hide no secrets from you, but from the
very beginning I shall search out and bring to light knowledge of her
nor shall I diverge from the truth." (Wisdom 6:22) Interesting that
the author (most likely an Jew living in Alexandria, Egypt circa 100
BCE) refers to Wisdom as female, and I'll let one read into that what
one wishes.

I suppose I should wrap this up before I bore everyone into a coma.
On the other hand the symbol could be the "Artist Formerly Known as a
Symbol, again known as Prince" new name!

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7363	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-25
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>"
<richmal@...> wrote:

>
> Though I know Diana MorAvia <wink> has answered this
> question in
> part, it did pique my curiosity to do a little
> research. Apparently
> the symbol in question is one of the many alchemical
> symbols for
> sulfer. Sulfer since it burns represents the primal
> element of fire
> and is considered "male." Combined with Mercury
> which representsthe
> primal element of water (and for some reason
> considered female, was
> Mercury a hermaphodite?

Mercury was known as Hermes to the Greeks and the word
"hermaphodite" is a fusion of the names Hermes and
Aphrodite.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7364	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: missed e-mails

Salve Romans

MSN which is my link to the internet was "Down" for general maintanance today so if by emal bounced I am sorry I have some that I received and will answer them ASAP I f you E-mailed me and it came back please send it out again.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7365	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum

EDICTVM CVRATORIS DIFFERUM
The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum
E Domo Curatoris Differum
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
is hereby appointed Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis and
Gallus Minucius Iovinus
is hereby appointed Scriba Curatoris Differum et Artificium

effective today the 26th of Ianuarius In the Consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus
(26 January 2003.)
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Curator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7366	From: cassius622@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Public Dioscuri Ritual, Monday, Jan 27th

Salvete,

It has been a while since a ritual has been publicly posted to the lists for
Citizens to share in. It is my hope that this year it can be done on a
regular basis, so that all those interested in the Religio may practice
together even while separated geographically.

Some members of the priesthood and myself intend to do a ritual to the
Dioscuri, Castor and Pollux, tomorrow - Monday, January 27th. The rite may be
done at any time of the day or evening, so hopefully others can join in even
with this short notice! :)

The Dioscuri are divine twins, sons of Iuppiter, who are thought to be Savior
deities, and who are also patrons of the Equestrian order, cavalry units in
the Legions, athletes, and sailors. Castor and Pollux are said to be friends
of humanity who bring salvation in times of trouble or crisis.

The short prayer and offering to follow is to be done at the home Lararium,
and is a simple rite to ask the Dioscuri for their blessings on our community
and ourselves. I will be posting the instructions to the rite itself directly
after this, and invite all Citizens who practice the Religio to join in by
doing the rite tomorrow!

This ritual has been brought together from a number of sources including two
great websites set up by Pontiff Marcus Cornelius Scriptor: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Ritual.html">
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Ritual.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Cult.html">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Cult.html</A>

A fine web page put up by Sacerdos Iulia Vopisca, with a rite by Flamen Gaius
Iulius Iulanus:
<A HREF="http://www.aztriad.com/dioscuri.html">http://www.aztriad.com/dioscuri.html</A>

And material by Citizen Ovidia Luna and Pontiff Antonius Gryllus Graecus. I
am afraid the prayer is in English, but perhaps there is enough time for
others to find comparable prayers in Latin or other languages.

There are a few important festivals coming up next month, including the
Lupercalia (Feb 15), the Quirinalia (Feb 17), the Terminalia (Feb. 23), the
Regifugium (Feb. 24), and the Equirria (Feb 27). I am hoping for another
public rite for at least the Lupercalia, but if any Citizen or member of the
Priesthood would like to offer text for any of the other rites, more can be
available. :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7367	From: cassius622@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Public Dioscuri Ritual - Text of Rite

PRAYER AND OFFERING TO THE DIOSCURI
January 27th

This is a prayer and offering to Castor and Pollux, the Dioscuri, sons of
Iuppiter. The Dioscuri are considered to be Savior deities, patrons of the
Roman knights and calvary, friends of mankind who bring salvation in times of
crisis.

Items needed at the home altar (Lararium)
The home lararium set up as for daily rites.
Wine, frankinsense incense, an image of Castor and Pollux if desired.

I. The officiant cleans and dresses for ritual, and prepares the offerings to
be given at the home Lararium.

II. The officiant goes before the altar, and lights the lamp or candle,
sacred to the Goddess Vesta.

III. The Officiant then offers incense to Ianus, the God of doorways, so that
he will open the pathway between the mortal world and the realm of the Gods.
Offering incense while saying:

"Salve Iane Pater! Admitte me coram numina lucentia."
(Greetings, Father Ianus! Allow me to behold in person the shining Gods."

IV. The officiant then faces the image of the Dioscuri, or simply pictures
Castor and Pollux as the victorius and shining twin horsemen.Â to face the
image of the Gods. He holds his hands to the Heavens, one palm facing
upwards, and one downwards, to recognize both Twins in their shared divinity;
he then says the following prayer/invocation to the Twins:

Domini, Filii Iovis, Romani Equitatus Patroni,
Lords, Sons of Jove, Patrons of the Roman Knights,

Adeste! Salve Dioscuri!
Be ye present! Hail, O Dioscuri!

"Be thou well Castor, Breaker of horses, God of our Cavalry, Patron of
Seamen, Fiery, youthful Warrior God, and whatever other names or titles you
assume or wish to be called byadoratio;

Be thou well strong, blameless Pollux, God of Athletes, Patron of Seamen,
Faultless Boxer who stings the unjust with terrible blows, and whatever other
names or titles you assume or wish to be called byadoratio...

I humbly and gratefully beseech and pray to you that you watch over our
People, the Roman People, the Quirites, O saviors of Man, and be giving and
generous to the Roman people, the Quirites.

Good horsemen, grant in your Divine Majesty everlasting victory, prosperity,
and health to the Roman People, the Quirites. If it so pleases you, grant the
Roman People, the Quirites, the safety of our homes and nation, lead us in
prosperity and propitious victory. Lend your Divine strength and favor to the
Pontifices, to me, to my house and my household. Let not evil, malice,
cowardice, frailty, weakness, nor ill health enter into the lives of the
Roman People."

V. OFFERING

Place the frankinsense incense on the coals in the turibulum (incense burner)
or light stick or cone incense now and let the smoke rise to the Dioscuri.
Say:

"Castor et Pollux, eius rei ergo macte thure esto. Fito volente propitius
mihi domo familiaeque meae et populo romano quiritibus."

"Castor and Pollux, for this shall you be honoured by the incense. Make
yourself willingly propitious to me, my house and my family, and to the
roman people of the quirites."

Now take the vessel with wine and offer the wine by pouring it into the
patera (offering dish) with the following words:

"Castor and Pollux, eiusdem rei ergo macte hoc vino inferio esto. Mactete hoc
sacrificio. Fito volente propitius mihi domo familiaeque meae et populo
romano quiritibus."

"Castor and Pollux, for the same reason shall you be honoured by this wine
below. Be thou increased by this which I give to you. Make yourself willingly
propitious to me, my house and my family, and to the roman people of the
quirites."

VI: END THE RITE
Take your right hand to your lips, kissing it as a sign of "adoratio". If
others are with you at the rite, announce that the sacrifice is finished with
the words "ilicet" or "ire licet" (it is lawful to go). If alone, simply say
that the rite is ended.

Leave the candle or lamp burning at the altar for a time, and also leave the
wine out for at least an hour in honor of the Dioscuri.

****************************************
(For those who do not have a household altar (lararium) information on
setting up such a space can be found at: <A HREF="http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/Howto.html">
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/Howto.html</A> )

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7368	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>
>
> Mercury was known as Hermes to the Greeks and the word
> "hermaphodite" is a fusion of the names Hermes and
> Aphrodite.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus

Salve,

Thank you for your explanation. I guess I need to rephrase my
question. Was Mercury considered a hermaphodite prior his
association with Hermes in Greek mythology?

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7369	From: Ivlia A.A. Mvsa	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Chat with me?

Salve,
If anyone is interested in chatting, I'll be sitting in the main list
chat room. I'll give it about an hour to see if anyone shows up.

Vale bene,
I.A.A.Musa

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7370	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

Salve,

If you're still around, I'm in the room now (as of 1:15pm)!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivlia A.A. Mvsa <aneaapollonia@...>
[mailto:aneaapollonia@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:40 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Chat with me?

Salve,
If anyone is interested in chatting, I'll be sitting in the main list
chat room. I'll give it about an hour to see if anyone shows up.

Vale bene,
I.A.A.Musa

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7371	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

Hermes wasn't exactly a Hermaphrodite though his name
is part of the source of the term. Since he was
portrayed as a youthful male God, the Greek ambiguity
regarding young males became associated with him. Many
of the sculptures of Hermes could have just as easily
been a portrayal of the Kore or another maiden.

This association with Greek mores regarding sexuality
is cultural, rather than an aspect of the God himself,
and I doubt that it existed in the Religio prior to
Greek influances.

--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>"
<richmal@...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius
> Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mercury was known as Hermes to the Greeks and the
> word
> > "hermaphodite" is a fusion of the names Hermes and
> > Aphrodite.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Salve,
>
> Thank you for your explanation. I guess I need to
> rephrase my
> question. Was Mercury considered a hermaphodite
> prior his
> association with Hermes in Greek mythology?
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7372	From: Kyrene Ariadne	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: [[Nova-Roma] Re: A question regarding a Symbol]

Salvete!

"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>" <richmal@...> wrote:

> Thank you for your explanation. I guess I need to rephrase my
> question. Was Mercury considered a hermaphodite prior his
> association with Hermes in Greek mythology?

No, he's not a Hermaphrodite. The name is of the child that he and Aphrodite
bore.

Valete,
Andrea Gladia Cyrene

* Kyrene Ariadne / Andrea Gladia Cyrene *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
kyrene_ariadne@.../kyrene_ariadne@...
* Hellenion: http://www.hellenion.org *
* Temple of Apollon: http://www.TempleApollo.com *
* Temple of Dionysos: http://www.TempleDionysos.com *
* Temple of Aphrodite: http://www.TempleAphrodite.net *
* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:Kyrene Ariadne *

____________________________________________________________________
This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7373	From: Gnaeus Salix Astur	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Ex officio praetoris

EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Salix
Astur, praetor, appoint the citizen Spurius Postumius Tubertus as
Scriba with the duty to aid the praetores in the moderation of the
main list of Nova Roma.

Datum a.d. VII Kalendis Februarii anno MMDCCLVI a.U.C.

Cn. Salix Astur, praetor.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CNÂ·SALIXÂ·ASTVRÂ·TÂ·FÂ·AÂ·NEPÂ·TRIBÂ·OVF
PRAETORÂ·ETÂ·SENATOR
TRIVMVIRÂ·ACADEMIAE
LICTORÂ·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7374	From: quintuscassiuscalvus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Gentle Reminder

Salvete,

Just a reminder that voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa to elect
the 2 vacant seats of Tribunus continues and will continue until
Voting shall end on Thursday January 30 at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01
GMT, 12:01 noon Eastern US time, 09:01 PST). If you have already
voted, thank you. If you have not voted, please vote. It's painless
and only takes a minute at most.

The Cista is located at:

http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/index.html

Remember your vote is your voice, don't be silent.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7375	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

-----Original Message-----
From : Â“L. Sicinius DrususÂ“ <lsicinius@...>

>
>This association with Greek mores regarding sexuality
>is cultural, rather than an aspect of the God himself,
>and I doubt that it existed in the Religio prior to
>Greek influances.
>

It seems to be a late development as well, earliler statues of Hermes showing him as helmetted and full bearded. However don't forget the Herms could be no more than just a post representing an erect penis equivalent to the garden Priapus and that Hermes is *not* 'messenger of the Gods'; that is Iris the Rainbow. The proper version of that role is Psychopomp, which is 'messenger' but only in the sense of the last message, the one that leads to the Underworld and he is the Guide there.

Vibius.

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7376	From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: New online Latin class starting

It's not our own Academia, but it might be of interest to some.

http://www.ravendays.org/latin/wheelock/wh2003i.html

I don't know these people, and I'm not endorsing their class.
But I figure it's a good idea to pass the word about these
things when I learn about them.

-- Marinus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7377	From: Caius Minucius Scaevola	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 03:20:34AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...> wrote:

Salve,

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@s...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and Franciscus
> > Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.
> >
> > www.shinjikun.com
> >
> > Thank you for the help!
>
> Salve,
>
> Very well done. Only one thing that I can see is a problem. It may
> just be my resolution and browser but the bottom half of the top frame
> (the quote from Cicero, or at least I think its Cicero) is cut off.

I'll add a little technical advice, if you don't mind: one of the rules
of thumb of web design is to keep individual images at 50kB or under
(larger images are usually thumbnailed), and your top nav bar is over
80kB - since I often use a slow and expensive wireless link these days,
I notice things like that. :)

Increasing the JPG compression by 10%, which doesn't seem to change it
visually (at 1280x1024, anyway) brings the image to under 29kB; 20%
results in 19kB, with very slight compression artefacts.

Also, frames aren't considered a particularly great design technique
anymore... but I think of that as a personal preference more than a
rule.

Oh, and Netscape shows the Cicero quote just fine - although you might
want to check it out in several other browsers (I usually use Netscape,
Mozilla, Konqueror, Dillo, lynx, and w3m as my test suite.)

Otherwise, nice clean look. Pretty much what I strive for in my own
pages.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
Every man is the artisan of his own fortune.
-- Appius Claudius Caecus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7378	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete.

Just one question I can't take off my mind.
Why is Nova Britannia Website's domain "shinjikun.com"???

Valete.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@...]
Enviada em: sÃ¡bado, 25 de janeiro de 2003 23:31
Para: Novaroma; NovaBritannia
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7379	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Salve Amice Tuberte!

Despite everything we have passed this month, I am glad to hear that.
It is one of the various proofs you have that you are really a great guy and
deserving of this all.
Congratulations and may our great gods keep guarding you.

Vale.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@...]
Enviada em: domingo, 26 de janeiro de 2003 19:08
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Ex officio praetoris

EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Salix
Astur, praetor, appoint the citizen Spurius Postumius Tubertus as
Scriba with the duty to aid the praetores in the moderation of the
main list of Nova Roma.

Datum a.d. VII Kalendis Februarii anno MMDCCLVI a.U.C.

Cn. Salix Astur, praetor.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CNÂ·SALIXÂ·ASTVRÂ·TÂ·FÂ·AÂ·NEPÂ·TRIBÂ·OVF
PRAETORÂ·ETÂ·SENATOR
TRIVMVIRÂ·ACADEMIAE
LICTORÂ·CVRIATVS

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7380	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: A question regarding a Symbol

--- me-in-@... wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From : ï¿½L. Sicinius Drususï¿½ <lsicinius@...>
> >
> >This association with Greek mores regarding
> sexuality
> >is cultural, rather than an aspect of the God
> himself,
> >and I doubt that it existed in the Religio prior to
> >Greek influances.
> >
> It seems to be a late development as well, earliler
> statues of Hermes showing him as helmetted and full
> bearded. However don't forget the Herms could be no
> more than just a post representing an erect penis
> equivalent to the garden Priapus and that Hermes is
> *not* 'messenger of the Gods'; that is Iris the
> Rainbow. The proper version of that role is
> Psychopomp, which is 'messenger' but only in the
> sense of the last message, the one that leads to the
> Underworld and he is the Guide there.
>
> Vibius.
>

By the same token if someone wished to portray the
Gods in a manner that was consistant with modern
culture it wouldn't be any more inaccurate than
ancient portrayals that depicted the Gods according to
differing stages of ancient cultures. For example
Mercury's aspect as a God of commerce could be
depicted with him in a modern 3 piece business suit.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7381	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salve,

*lol* simple, because itÂ’s my domain name! ~_^ IÂ’m a Japanese anime
(animation) fan, and I have been using the screen name Â“shinjikunÂ” (a
character from a favorite series of mine) for years. When I volunteered
to create a new Nova Britannia website, I just parked it on my existing
domain.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis [mailto:tagenialis@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:48 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete.

Just one question I can't take off my mind.
Why is Nova Britannia Website's domain "shinjikun.com"???

Valete.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@...]
Enviada em: sÃ¡bado, 25 de janeiro de 2003 23:31
Para: Novaroma; NovaBritannia
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and
Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---
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Enviada por GNBS atravÃ©s do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/1/2003

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7382	From: Titus Arminius Genialis	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salve.

lol....
thanks! :^)

Vale.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@...]
Enviada em: domingo, 26 de janeiro de 2003 22:21
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salve,

*lol* simple, because itÂ’s my domain name! ~_^ IÂ’m a Japanese anime
(animation) fan, and I have been using the screen name Â“shinjikunÂ” (a
character from a favorite series of mine) for years. When I volunteered
to create a new Nova Britannia website, I just parked it on my existing
domain.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Titus Arminius Genialis [mailto:tagenialis@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:48 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete.

Just one question I can't take off my mind.
Why is Nova Britannia Website's domain "shinjikun.com"???

Valete.

________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Adrian Gunn [mailto:shinjikun@...]
Enviada em: sÃ¡bado, 25 de janeiro de 2003 23:31
Para: Novaroma; NovaBritannia
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salvete,

Thanks to the excellent advice of Julilla Sempronia Magna and
Franciscus
Apulus Caesar, ver 1.02 of the Nova Britannia website is up.

www.shinjikun.com

Thank you for the help!

Also, any citizens who have some photos they would like to see in the
Provincial Photo gallery please contact me.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/1/2003

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7383	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Eagle

I'm trying to send my article to The Eagle, but it keeps getting bounced. To Gallagher. Whats up?

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7384	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

Salve,

I certainly don't mind - I'm thrilled at all of the excellent advice and
support I have been getting from my fellow civies! I upped the
compression level as you suggested, so it should be all set now. I'd
love to be able to check the site out in a wide variety of browsers, but
unfortunately, as a typical Windows drone, I've only got MS Explorer.
(BTW If anyone else out there uses other browsers, I'd appreciate any
feedback regarding how the site appears.)

Thanks for the help!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:20 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Britannia Website ver. 1.02!

On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 03:20:34AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus
<richmal@...> wrote:

Salve,

I'll add a little technical advice, if you don't mind: one of the rules
of thumb of web design is to keep individual images at 50kB or under
(larger images are usually thumbnailed), and your top nav bar is over
80kB - since I often use a slow and expensive wireless link these days,
I notice things like that. :)

Increasing the JPG compression by 10%, which doesn't seem to change it
visually (at 1280x1024, anyway) brings the image to under 29kB; 20%
results in 19kB, with very slight compression artefacts.

Also, frames aren't considered a particularly great design technique
anymore... but I think of that as a personal preference more than a
rule.

Oh, and Netscape shows the Cicero quote just fine - although you might
want to check it out in several other browsers (I usually use Netscape,
Mozilla, Konqueror, Dillo, lynx, and w3m as my test suite.)

Otherwise, nice clean look. Pretty much what I strive for in my own
pages.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
Every man is the artisan of his own fortune.
-- Appius Claudius Caecus

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7385	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Rhine River Patrol, Part 2, A Meeting

Curator Differum Tiberius;

In response to your request that I send the subject document to you
again, this I have done four times. Each time it is returned to me with
the notification that it cannot be delivered to:

spqr173@...

This however is not the address hat I have used, but rather I have used
the address:

spqr173@...

on all four occasions. In addition, you have indicated to me that I
should remove ",COM" from your address, but since this is the address
that you have used (spqr173@...), and since my hardware tells me
that without ".COM" your address is incorrect, I do not understand your
instructions.

The subject document has been provided to the Sodalitas Militarium List
and is there should you wish to copy and use it in "Eagle." It is
apparent afer four tries that you cannot recieve any E-Mail from me, and
further that the server that serves you has your address mixed up.

For the next month's Eagle , I will be pleased to mail you the document
by "Snail Mail" until this problem is cleared up. Your E-Mail address
is the only return problem that I have encountered so far on the web.

My apology for contacting you in this way, but I had asked for your
phone number previously in case of such a problem, but it was not
forthcoming.

Regretfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7386	From: rexmarciusnr	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Senate Call

Salvete cives Novae Romae!

Last week, the Senate was called to order by the
Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

For the information of the people, here is a brief
version of the Senate agenda.

The Schedule will be:

Formal debate shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Saturday 25 January

Voting shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Wednesday 29 January.

Voting shall end at 23.59 Roman time Friday 31 January

Agenda

Item I:

The date of the Feriae Latinae for this year is to be set as April
28th. April 29th and 30th shall be dies religiosi.

Item II.

Approval of the Revised Budget.

Item III.

The appointments of Propraetor of America Boreoccidentalis and
Propraetor of America Mediatlantica.

Item IV.

Statement of Nova Roma as organization for the public benefit.

Item V.

Deadline for taxation to be changed to the last day of April.

Item VI.

Support of the community of Rosia Montana, the
Roman Alburnus Maior according to the proposal of Manius
Constantinus Serapio and that the Consuls are given the task to see
to that this decision is executed.

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Tribune of the Plebs

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7387	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-26
Subject: Forum Romanum

Salve Romans

If any of you go to the Forum Romanum Web site and have not been there in a couple of days GO BACK they have completely redone it. IT IS GREAT!!!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/~stilicho/index.html

Also if any of you have the time and talents they need help with translations of ancient works in to modern languages

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7388	From: Manius Constantinus Serapio	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Reminder: SAVE ALBURNUS MAIOR!!!

ï¿½A gold mine threatens a great archaeological siteï¿½

A Canadian firm, Gabriel Resources, will open a gold,
silver and uranium mine which will destroy several
important archaeological sites in Romania. The choosen
place for what will be the biggest European opencast
mine is Rosia Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, on
the Apuseni mountains.

The mining activity in this area is thousands of years
old. Several mines of the II century B.C. can still be
partly travelled over.

Besides iron ores, Rosia Montana is famous in European
archaeology because of epigraphical evidence found
there. Just two year ago, a Frech-German team
discovered funeral steles and a large number of Roman
altars with votive inscriptions.

The Canadian project even provides for the complete
destruction of the actual center (which will be
re-built elsewhere...) with its monuments (eight
churches and nine graveyards) and its archaeological
strata.
Here they will settle one of the four shafts provided
for.

The Rosia Montana valley is part of the national
protected Property. An international campaign is
underway to save the ancient evidences of that area.
This campaign involves Rumanian archaeologists like
Gheorghe Lazarovici (Univesrity of Cluj), Marius Ciuta
(University of Alba Iulia), Sabin Luca (University of
Sibiu). The mobilization culminated with an appeal to
the highest national authorities by 83 academics of
the Academy of Economic Studies of the University of
Bucarest, in order to stop this operation. In fact,
according to a close examination, this project would
not even provide the populace
with relevant economic advantages.

The World Bank has already announced, through the
International Finance Corporation (IFC), that they
will not finance the project of the Gabriel Resources:
James Wohfensohn, the president of the World Bank,
intervened directly to block the loan.

The gold of this area of the Carpathians has been
mined and traded in the whole of Europe since
prehistory. Trajan's column shows the Roman occupation
of the Apuseni mountains. It was a conquest which led
to Rome so much gold that its price was depressed for
decades. Even with this depreciated price the sheer
amount of gold provided for the financing of ambitious
projects like the construction of the amphitheatre in
Verona.

The project of Gabriel Resources provides for the
forced transfer of 2,000 people: most of them are
actually employed in more than 700 farms. Production
processes using cyanide, which has already
caused a lot of ecological disasters, and which are
illegal in the rest of Europe, are proposed. Just
consider that about 196.4 million tons of cyanide
waste will be created. A real ecological predicament
is
looming, and unfortunately it would not be something
new in Romania. In fact, with the same mining process
in another mine in Baia Mare, water for 2,500,000
people was contaminated.

For further information go to
http://www.rosiamontana.org

What we ask you is to simply sign this petition to the
Government of Romania:
http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Please do that! It's very important! We must try to do
our best to assist in saving Alburnus Maior and
avoiding this ecological catastrophe!

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7389	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Today honors the Dioscuri

Gaius Miunucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Today is sacred to the Dioscuri, the twin sons of Iupiter and Leda,
Castor and Pollux. I would like to offer this Hymn of Homer, sung in
their honor:

To the Dioscuri:

"Sing, clear-voiced Muse, of Castor and Polydeuces (Pollux), the
Tyndaridae, who sprang from Olympian Zeus. Beneath the heights
fo Taygetus stately Leda bare them, when the dark-clouded Son of
Cronos had privily bent her to his will.

Hail, children of Tyndareus, riders upon swift horses!"

Let every follower of the Religio offer thanks to the saviors of sailors
and soldiers, protectors of Rome.

Bene Valete in pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Â
Patria est communis omnium parens.
Â“Our native land is the common parent of us all.Â” - Cicero

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7390	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Plebs really the majority?

Salve Cordus,

> I'd be interested to know, actually, whether active
>plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians by
>any substantial margin, or indeed at all.

I am also wondering what the ratio between active patricians and active
plebeians is. When I went through the archives of the ComitiaPlebis Tributa
list yesterday, I found that about 30 percent of the postings were actually
from patricians. So without malice, I unsubscribed the patricians that were
on the list. As far as content goes, in most cases, the posts were in
response to one argument or another taking place on the main list. I will be
writing some list guidelines, etc. so that in the future, this can be a
practical list for the Plebeians rather than just another place to drag an
argument :-p

>No doubt we'll have to wait for the census to tell us

<definitively, but has anyone any indicative evidence
<or experience?
On the Album Gentium, Gallia has 54 citizens, yet on the provincial mailing
there are only 6 citizens from Gallia. I wanted to invite all of them to the
meeting that I had on Saturday, so I personally emailed the remaining 48
citizens. I did not receive any responses. Assuming that there are a few
Provincia Gallia citizens that for one reason or another just aren't
subscribed to the Gallia list, I still wouldn't count on more than 12 active
citizens. If we use the same ratio throughout NR, this leaves less than 25%
of our citizens as active. So at this point I have no idea what the active
ratio between Patricians and Plebeians is.

A census is regularly brought up here. I've always wondered why we don't
begin with an email census. It may not be perfectly accurate, but it would
be a start and it wouldn't cost us anything but time.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7391	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

Victor was usually carved on the rudis.

F. Gal Aur Sec

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7392	From: M Arminius Maior	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...>
escreveu: > Salve Cordus,

>
> > I'd be interested to know, actually, whether
> active
> >plebeians actually do outnumber active patricians
> by
> >any substantial margin, or indeed at all.
>
> I am also wondering what the ratio between active
> patricians and active
> plebeians is.

[..]

> A census is regularly brought up here. I've always
> wondered why we don't
> begin with an email census. It may not be perfectly
> accurate, but it would
> be a start and it wouldn't cost us anything but
> time.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia Aventina

A little about Nova-Roman demography...

According to the Album Civium (25.jan.2756), Nova Roma
has 1698 cives, which 541 are patricians (31,9%) and
1157 plebeians (68,1%).

I dont have access to an easy way to count the number
of Adsidui and Capite Censi; but in the last two
years, the patrician population grew faster that the
plebeian one.
The table below reflects shows how our population is
growing:

date pat pleb total
01jan54 169 (27%) 446 (73%) 615
01jan55 355 (30%) 810 (70%) 1165
01jan56 534 (32%) 1142 (68%) 1676

So, in the last year, Nova Roma gained 511 new cives,
and 179 (35%) of them was patricians. That is, with a
census, is possible that the proportion of patricians
grow a bit more.

However, if we have the numbers of adsidui and capite
censi, we can have a better idea of the amount of
active citizens.

Marcus Arminius Maior
censorial scribe

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7393	From: M Arminius Maior	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: NR Demographics II. (was:Plebs really the majority?)

Salve

--- Gaius Marius Merullus <c_marius_m@...>
escreveu: > Salvete A Apolloni et alii
[..]

> The good news for me, since we're on the subject of
> demographics, is that
> the plebeian order is in the majority and growing in
> a more cohesive fashion
> than it was 3 years ago. That is, going back that
> far in the past, the
> plebeian order consisted almost exclusivley of
> single and couple gentes;
> whereas it now has several larger, even 10+ member
> gentes.
>
> Valete
> C Marius Merullus
> patrician

And a bit more demographical data...

According to the Album Gentium, Nova Roma has 411
gentes, 30 patrician and 381 plebeians; 100 of this
gentes are closed (that is, the paterfamiliares didnt
answer).

Of the 30 patrician gens, 5 are closed, so 83% are
active; and of the 381 plebeian gens, 95 are closed,
so 75% are active.

Of all the 411 gentes, 200 (48,7%) are simple, that
is, with one sole member.

Of the 30 patrician gentes, 3 (10%) are simple; and of
the 381 plebeian gentes, 197 (51,7%) are simple.

The 5 biggest gentes are patrician,
Of the 30 biggest gentes, 15 are patrician.

Vale
Marcus Arminius

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7394	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Senate Call

Ave Tribune!

keep up the good work!

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: rexmarciusnr <RexMarcius@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Senate Call

Salvete cives Novae Romae!

Last week, the Senate was called to order by the
Senior Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

For the information of the people, here is a brief
version of the Senate agenda.

The Schedule will be:

Formal debate shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Saturday 25 January

Voting shall begin at 23.59 Roman time Wednesday 29 January.

Voting shall end at 23.59 Roman time Friday 31 January

Agenda

Item I:

The date of the Feriae Latinae for this year is to be set as April
28th. April 29th and 30th shall be dies religiosi.

Item II.

Approval of the Revised Budget.

Item III.

The appointments of Propraetor of America Boreoccidentalis and
Propraetor of America Mediatlantica.

Item IV.

Statement of Nova Roma as organization for the public benefit.

Item V.

Deadline for taxation to be changed to the last day of April.

Item VI.

Support of the community of Rosia Montana, the
Roman Alburnus Maior according to the proposal of Manius
Constantinus Serapio and that the Consuls are given the task to see
to that this decision is executed.

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex
Tribune of the Plebs

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7395	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Senator Armini,

> I dont have access to an easy way to count the number
> of Adsidui and Capite Censi; but in the last two
> years, the patrician population grew faster that the
> plebeian one.

novaroma=# select count(id),patrician,citizen_type from cives
where status=0 group by patrician,citizen_type;

count | patrician | citizen_type
-------+-----------+--------------
PLEBEIAN:
25 | 0 | 1 minor
684 | 0 | 2 cap. censi
359 | 0 | 3 assidui/new
89 | 0 | 4 assidui/paid
PATRICIAN:
19 | 1 | 1 minor
259 | 1 | 2 cap. censi
185 | 1 | 3 assidui/new
78 | 1 | 4 assidui/paid

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7396	From: Chantal G. Whittington	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SCRIBAE DESIGNATIONE

Tubertus--Congratulations! I think you'll be great
with this. :)

---
Renata Corva

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7397	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

Salve,
If anyone wants to chat, IÂ´ll be sitting in the main list chat room for
the next hour (or so)

urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Ivlia A.A. Mvsa <aneaapollonia@...>" <aneaapollonia@...>
Fecha: Domingo, Enero 26, 2003 6:39 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Chat with me?

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve,
>
> If anyone is interested in chatting, I'll be sitting in the main
> list
>
> chat room. I'll give it about an hour to see if anyone shows up.
>
>
>
> Vale bene,
>
> I.A.A.Musa
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor</b></font></td></tr>
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>
>
> src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?

M=241773.2861422.4212389.2848452/D=egroupmail/S=:H</td></tr></table>

>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7398	From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Quaest

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,

Comitia Populi Tributa final results in the election of the 8th Quaestor

The results in the Comitia Populi Tributa have been certified by the
Rogatores. The Rogatores have provided the following results: The
total number of votes cast was 117, of which 22were invalid, leaving
95 valid votes in 32 tribes. In one tribe, only an abstention was
cast. Therefore, the candidates had to carry 16 Tribes to win.
.
Tribes where the result was a tie between candidates were assigned
according to law to individual candidates, Ten tribes were decided by
lot and went to Publius Tarquitius Rufus.

Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus: 8 Tribes - 10 12 20 21 22 24 25 30

CaÃ¯us Minius Messala Bellator: 3 Tribes - 31 32 33

Publius Tarquitius Rufus: 20 Tribes - 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 23 26 27 28 34 35

Publius Tarquitius Rufus is elected Quaestor for MMDCCLVI. According
to the law Publius Tarquitius Rufus can assume the office of Quaestor
the 23th of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003). I will soon discuss his
assignment with himself and one of the higher Magistrate.

Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus and CaÃ¯us Minius Messala
Bellator didn't recieve enough support, I thank them for standing for
office.

I extend my thanks to the Rogators for their work, and to all three
candidates for standing for this office.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7399	From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Chat with me?

A reminder to anyone interested in realtime communication, that
there is an official NovaRoma chat site located at

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat

Unlike the Yahoo chat utility, which requires Javascript
capability not supported by all browsers, the NR chat site
is quite friendly to a wide variety of browser software.

-- Marinus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7400	From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Patricians Out

Diana Moravia Aventina;

While it is perhaps none of my business, and I have never subscribed to
any Plebian List or activity; in my view, I find it unfortunate that you
should see the necessity of unsubscribing Patricians from the "Plebian
List," even "without malice."

As with some others here in Nova Roma I see no real reason for a
"Plebian List" but of course you are quite free to indulge yourself as
you wish. My thought is that by doing so, a wedge is driven between two
groups of people where no wedge need be. It is a well proven fact that
once two groups are separated in any way, that misunderstandings grow
between them out of all proportions to any real concerns. This
phenomenon is enhanced very often by the fact that open communication
between the two groups is no longer available. I, of course, hope that
this concern will not cme to reality, but experience suggests otherwise.

In my Senatorial duties, I serve Patricians and Plebians alike, and
usually have no idea who is who, since I see no reasn to pore over the
various lists determining such. I answer Plebian and Parician alike in
thier queries to me, and ideas, and volunteers generated for my
consideration, are never subjected to that determinatin prior to
selection. In my humble view, we are trying to build a micronation, not
a set of political / social groups, and good ideas regardless of thier
source are valuable. The best ideas, however, may be said to generate
from "piggybacking" one person's ideas resulting from another person's
original concepts. By separating those Patricians who were interested
in discussing various aspects with plebians, you have to some degree
halted that process, and again to some degree have caused the beginning
of some degree of emnity, niether one of which is needed in NR.

Plebians already enjoy a number of privaledges that Patricians do not
enjoy, and even these few differences has to date caused a significant
discussion about the disparities between them. As a former Plebian,
raised to Patrician status for service to the micronation, I feel at
odds to some degree with both groups, on the one hand because of my
beginnings, and on the other because my being a Patrician was the result
of service and not the order in which I joined Nova Roma. As a former
Plebian, I understand the Plebian aspects, but in my view the honor of
raising my anchestor's name to the Patrician class is one to which I
dedicate to my anchestor with pride and enthusiasm. It might seem to
some that Plebians do not recognize that Patrician Status might be
concived as an honor granted for service rather than a position to be
separated from. Such is one of the basis from which this message is
issued.

You may and probably will say that such activities can take place on the
Main List, and you would be correct as far as access is concerned.
However, I wonder, if in fact, such a melding of ideas will continue at
the same rate that it has prior to your somewhat precipitous action.
Such is my concern, and I hope that this comcern is both unjustified and
false, but my experience with people warns me that this message may not
be unnecessary.

In closing, I fully admit that such is no business of mine except in my
personal concern, and you have every right, as far as I know, to conduct
your actions as you see fit, just as long as they do not trample on the
rights of others. I just thought that I should make my concerns known.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7401	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: M Arminius Maior <marminius@...>

Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0300 (ART)

...So, in the last year, Nova Roma gained 511 new cives,
and 179 (35%) of them was patricians. That is, with a
census, is possible that the proportion of patricians
grow a bit more...

---------------------------------------------------------------
Salvete

I am surprised. I thought some 80% were Patricians, but 35% is still
much too high anyway. I hope people are not taking this Patrician/Plebeian
division too seriously. Once we're out of the computer that will have to
change. We don't have patrician/plebeian classes unless we want to be a
role playing group.

The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members of the
Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it and now I'll
run for cover.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7402	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

--- MarcusAudens@... wrote:

> Diana Moravia Aventina;
>
> While it is perhaps none of my business, and I have
> never subscribed to
> any Plebian List or activity; in my view, I find it
> unfortunate that you
> should see the necessity of unsubscribing Patricians
> from the "Plebian
> List," even "without malice."
>
> As with some others here in Nova Roma I see no real
> reason for a
> "Plebian List" but of course you are quite free to
> indulge yourself as
> you wish. My thought is that by doing so, a wedge
> is driven between two
> groups of people where no wedge need be. It is a
> well proven fact that
> once two groups are separated in any way, that
> misunderstandings grow
> between them out of all proportions to any real
> concerns. This
> phenomenon is enhanced very often by the fact that
> open communication
> between the two groups is no longer available. I,
> of course, hope that
> this concern will not cme to reality, but experience
> suggests otherwise.

I Share Senator Audens concern that unsubscribing
Patricians from the List will lead to
misunderstandings between the Orders, though I
Disagree with him over the need for having the list.

The Comitia Plebis Tributa is one of Nova Roma's
Comitae, a Legal body authorized by the Constitution.
The list is in effect the Plebs meeting in thier
assembly overseen by the Tribunes. This is in
accordance with the Laws of Antiquita, and the
Constitution of our Modern Republic. There is a need
for the list.

In Antiquita no Patrician could enter the Comitia or
speak from the Rostra when the Plebs were meeting, so
at first glance it would be correct to bar Patricians
from being members of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
mailing list. As Senator Audens pointed out this can
lead to misunderstandings between the orders.

I Would like to sugest a way around this problem that
is in accord with ancient practices. In Antiquita
Patricians were barred from being present in the
Comitia or speaking in it, but they were allowed to
stand outside the Comitia, say on the steps of the
Senate, and to listen to the debates of the Plebs. We
can recreate this by allowing Patricians to be members
of the list so that they can listen to the debates
"from the Senate Steps", but keep them from taking
part in the debates of the Plebs by placing any
Patrician Subscriber on permanant modarated status.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7403	From: rabotnik@	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Qu

Salvete!

My congratulation to the winner Publius Tarquitius Rufus and
i want to sincerely thank all citizens who voted for me :)
Valete bene!
Petrus Domitianus AL

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,
>
>
> Comitia Populi Tributa final results in the election of the 8th

Quaestor

>
> The results in the Comitia Populi Tributa have been certified by

the

> Rogatores. The Rogatores have provided the following results: The
> total number of votes cast was 117, of which 22were invalid,

leaving

> 95 valid votes in 32 tribes. In one tribe, only an abstention was
> cast. Therefore, the candidates had to carry 16 Tribes to win.
> .
> Tribes where the result was a tie between candidates were assigned
> according to law to individual candidates, Ten tribes were decided

> lot and went to Publius Tarquitius Rufus.
>
>
> Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus: 8 Tribes - 10 12 20 21 22 24

25 30

>
> CaÃ¯us Minius Messala Bellator: 3 Tribes - 31 32 33
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus: 20 Tribes - 1 2 3 4 5 6
> 7 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 23 26 27 28 34 35
>
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus is elected Quaestor for MMDCCLVI.

According

> to the law Publius Tarquitius Rufus can assume the office of

Quaestor

> the 23th of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003). I will soon discuss his
> assignment with himself and one of the higher Magistrate.
>
>
> Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus and CaÃ¯us Minius Messala
> Bellator didn't recieve enough support, I thank them for standing

for

> office.
>
> I extend my thanks to the Rogators for their work, and to all three
> candidates for standing for this office.
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7404	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

In a message dated 1/27/03 12:40:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gaiusgalerius@... writes:

> The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members of the
> Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it and now
> I'll
> run for cover.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

I disagree.
Those gens who took part in the formation of NR, should be honored, and
Patrician status is the way that is done.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7405	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Rudius Inscription

"Victorious" with the name of the gladiator (See Pompeii graffiti for
examples)

Q. Fabius Maximus
curator Sodalitas Munerum

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7406	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Senator L. Sicinius Drusus wrote (among other things):

> There is a need for the list.

...

> In Antiquita Patricians were barred from being
> present in the Comitia or speaking in it, but they
> were allowed to stand outside the Comitia, say on
> the steps of the Senate, and to listen to the
> debates of the Plebs. We can recreate this by
> allowing Patricians to be members of the list so
> that they can listen to the debates "from the Senate
> Steps", but keep them from taking part in the
> debates of the Plebs by placing any Patrician
> Subscriber on permanant modarated status.

I agree that the list's existence is desirable. Also,
for the benefit of anyone who has never visited it, I
can say from my (admittedly short) experience that
there that virtually no discussion takes place there
except the announcement of elections and other votes -
it's not a hotbed of proletarian agitation! But of
course that doesn't mean it couldn't potentially
foster division, which was Consular Audens' point.

I also like Senator Drusus' suggested solution, but
I'd like to highlight something, while trying to upset
as few people as possible and avoid coming across as a
rabid leveller. Senator Drusus has pointed out that an
important political body (the Plebeian Tribal
Assembly) needs to be able to meet and deliberate
without the intervention of non-members. He has also
pointed out that historically the deliberations of
this body were, though closed to participation from
non-members, open to spectators, and that this seems
desirable in the interests of democratic openness.

Now, these exact same points have been made in the
past regarding the Senate. It, too, is an important
political body which needs to deliberate without
interference. It, too, was historically open to at
least a few spectators, except possibly in some
circumstances. Is it not desirable in the interests of
openness that it, too, should be so in Nova Roma?

The three strongest arguments I've heard against this
idea are that it would be detrimental to the dignity
of the Senate as a whole and possibly of its
individual members; that it would encourage
speechifying and public performance; and that the
Senate might at some times have to debate matters of
sensitivity which would be better kept private.

These are weighty arguments, and ones which are not to
be ignored. However, they can just as easily be
applied to the Plebeian Assembly, particularly the
first, which is to me probably the strongest. It might
be argued that the Senate is more important than the
Plebeian Assembly, and that it discusses more serious
and sensitive matters. I would make two responses:
first, the ultimate sovereignty in Nova Roma rests
with the Assemblies, because these together are the
legislative authorities, and it would hardly be
appropriate to regard one of the Assemblies as less
important that the Senate; and second, if the Senate
is an important body and discusses important issues,
surely all the more reason for its proceedings to be
more open.

Now, I'd like to stress that I'm *not* suggesting that
anyone who wants to should be allowed to subscribe to
the Senate list and watch its meetings even silently.
Nor am I suggesting that the Plebeian Assembly should
be entirely closed. The reason I make this comparison
is to suggest that perhaps the Senate should be a bit
more open (my personaly suggestion would be that the
Tribunes post not only the votes but also a summary of
the arguments which were put forward, without names
attached), and on the other hand that perhaps the
Plebeian Assembly should be a bit more closed that
Senator Drusus suggests (perhaps a small number of
Patrician observers could be admitted, as the Tribunes
are admitted to the Senate).

Anyway, I hope I've provided some food for thought,
and I hope I haven't upset anyone.

Thanks for listening,

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7407	From: Fortunatus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Salvete Aule Apolloni omnesque

> I also like Senator Drusus' suggested solution [of having patricians
> be allowed to join, but not post to, the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> list.]

As do I. It is an excellent suggestion, well in keeping with the spirit
of ancient practice.

> Now, these exact same points have been made in the past regarding
> the Senate. It, too, is an important political body which needs to
> deliberate without interference. It, too, was historically open to
> at least a few spectators, except possibly in some circumstances.
> Is it not desirable in the interests of openness that it, too,
> should be so in Nova Roma?

I don't think so, for the same reason that I agree with opening the
Concilium Plebis to anyone who wishes to spectate--namely, concordance
with the spirit of ancient practice.

> The three strongest arguments I've heard against this idea are that
> it would be detrimental to the dignity of the Senate as a whole and
> possibly of its individual members; that it would encourage
> speechifying and public performance; and that the Senate might at some
> times have to debate matters of sensitivity which would be better kept
> private.

I would add a fourth reason. In antiquity, the Senate was a relatively
private body which was only open to a few hundred people. Its
deliberations were only made public in digest form, when made public at all.

The comitia, however, were public in nature and intent. They were, and
are, representative of the democratic element in the mixed Roman
government. Therefore, anything that happens before one of the trina
comitia, whether a vote on a lex or trial or an election, ought to be as
public as possible.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7408	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

In a message dated 1/27/03 3:50:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@... writes:

> . It might
> be argued that the Senate is more important than the
> Plebeian Assembly, and that it discusses more serious
> and sensitive matters. I would make two responses:
> first, the ultimate sovereignty in Nova Roma rests
> with the Assemblies, because these together are the
> legislative authorities, and it would hardly be
> appropriate to regard one of the Assemblies as less
> important that the Senate; and second, if the Senate
> is an important body and discusses important issues,
> surely all the more reason for its proceedings to be
> more open.
>

Apollonius,

Why? Any argument made to support or dis a lex put before the comitia will
be viewed by the voters, before they vote. Senate transparency is not going
to change that.
As far as the day to day running of NR is concerned, is every gathering of
the MPs televised? Here in the US we have CSPAN, but only selected events
are shown, meetings of the JCS for example are not and the viewership is lees
than 5%.
Next, the reasons given being not persuasive enough for you, I'd suggest you
enter the honorum and get your Senate seat. Then perhaps you will
understand.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7409	From: Greg Rothenberger	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7410	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.

What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma be then?

Thats right. Nothing.

GBA

In a message dated 1/27/03 12:40:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gaiusgalerius@... writes:

> The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members of the
> Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it and now
> I'll
> run for cover.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

I disagree.
Those gens who took part in the formation of NR, should be honored, and
Patrician status is the way that is done.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7411	From: L. Sicinius Drusus	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

--- Fortunatus <labienus@...> wrote:

> Salvete Aule Apolloni omnesque

SNIP

>
> > The three strongest arguments I've heard against
> this idea are that
> > it would be detrimental to the dignity of the
> Senate as a whole and
> > possibly of its individual members; that it would
> encourage
> > speechifying and public performance; and that the
> Senate might at some
> > times have to debate matters of sensitivity which
> would be better kept
> > private.
>
> I would add a fourth reason. In antiquity, the
> Senate was a relatively
> private body which was only open to a few hundred
> people. Its
> deliberations were only made public in digest form,
> when made public at all.
>

There is a Fifth reason. The Senate is legaly the
Board of Directors of a Non Profit Corparation, and it
has to discuss Macronational legal matters from time
to time. Discussions regarding the Corparations legal
obligations are best kept as private as possible.

This side of the Senate's business can't be ignored no
matter what historic reasons might be found for a more
open Senate, or which modern ideas of open government
some citizens may subscribe to.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7412	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Patricians Out

Salve ROMANS

Speaking as a Plebian, I also think this is a great ideal and in keeping with tradition.

Please let them listen in, it would be to our mutual benefit.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Fortunatus
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:38 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Patricians Out

Salvete Aule Apolloni omnesque

> I also like Senator Drusus' suggested solution [of having patricians
> be allowed to join, but not post to, the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> list.]

As do I. It is an excellent suggestion, well in keeping with the spirit
of ancient practice.

> Now, these exact same points have been made in the past regarding
> the Senate. It, too, is an important political body which needs to
> deliberate without interference. It, too, was historically open to
> at least a few spectators, except possibly in some circumstances.
> Is it not desirable in the interests of openness that it, too,
> should be so in Nova Roma?

I don't think so, for the same reason that I agree with opening the
Concilium Plebis to anyone who wishes to spectate--namely, concordance
with the spirit of ancient practice.

> The three strongest arguments I've heard against this idea are that
> it would be detrimental to the dignity of the Senate as a whole and
> possibly of its individual members; that it would encourage
> speechifying and public performance; and that the Senate might at some
> times have to debate matters of sensitivity which would be better kept
> private.

I would add a fourth reason. In antiquity, the Senate was a relatively
private body which was only open to a few hundred people. Its
deliberations were only made public in digest form, when made public at all.

The comitia, however, were public in nature and intent. They were, and
are, representative of the democratic element in the mixed Roman
government. Therefore, anything that happens before one of the trina
comitia, whether a vote on a lex or trial or an election, ought to be as
public as possible.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7413	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-27
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7414	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Last Call for February Eagle

Salve Romans

If you have anything for the Feb. Eagle please send it in Now.

Thanks

Tiberius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7415	From: biojournalism	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Hello. I'm new in the process of joining Nova Roma

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/

I'm new in the process of joining. My Latin name is Octavia.
I write detective novels set in ancient Rome.
I also have a Web site for other novels I've written at
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html. I will be putting up a free
seminar/course/lectures etc. on my site on writing detective novels
for family reading set in ancient Rome. My goal is to sharpen my
research in authentic foods, names of clothing and furniture, names
for architecture within an ancient Roman villa such as the atrium,
vestibule, etc. I want to find out more about the plumbing used in
homes such as heated stones under indoor swimming pools, and how
many square feet were the homes of most patricians so I can include
authentic facts in my novel. Thanks. My book cover will be
illustrated as authentically as possible by myself. And I'll include
foods, especially recipes for cooked vegetables and cakes also the
type of fabric used in women's clothing of the first families.
Thanks.

Octavia.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7416	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Hello. I'm new in the process of joining Nova Roma

Ave Octavia!

We would be glad to help you. You have struck out on a new and exciting path in your life! Roman detective novels are becoming very popular.

You need to have a pimp in your stories. Readers love pimps. And lawyers. Who doesn't love lawyers? If you're gonna have detectives, you've GOT to have lawyers! Why else all the snoopin' around?

And you need a drunk. Or you can make one of the characters a drunk, maybe even one of the main characters a drunk, like a Lawrence Block or Jimmy Breslin novel. Drinking was very popular in Roman times, as it is today. Many readers, especially those in Nova Roma, will connect on many levels with a drunk protagonist.

I hope this helps.

Vale

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
From: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:32 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Hello. I'm new in the process of joining Nova Roma

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/

I'm new in the process of joining. My Latin name is Octavia.
I write detective novels set in ancient Rome.
I also have a Web site for other novels I've written at
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html. I will be putting up a free
seminar/course/lectures etc. on my site on writing detective novels
for family reading set in ancient Rome. My goal is to sharpen my
research in authentic foods, names of clothing and furniture, names
for architecture within an ancient Roman villa such as the atrium,
vestibule, etc. I want to find out more about the plumbing used in
homes such as heated stones under indoor swimming pools, and how
many square feet were the homes of most patricians so I can include
authentic facts in my novel. Thanks. My book cover will be
illustrated as authentically as possible by myself. And I'll include
foods, especially recipes for cooked vegetables and cakes also the
type of fabric used in women's clothing of the first families.
Thanks.

Octavia.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7417	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

In a message dated 1/27/03 7:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlasalle@... writes:

> Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is
> ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much
> bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.
>
> What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma
> be then?

Without these first 30 gens' time, effort and commitment there is no NR to
grow and receive plebeians. Have you thought of that?
The Plebs did attempt to leave and start their own city in the 500s until
they realized that they needed the Pats, to provide protection, since the
best armed citizens were also the richest.
If the Plebs all left, I should imagine the Patricians would continue to keep
the flame to Vesta lit, the Senate in session, and Nova Roma in existance,
until new prospective citizens found her.
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7418	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve, dearest consular!

Yes, I sure agree, but even the ancient patricians realized that
without the plebs, the capacity of the roman army would decrease, and
the Republic easy would be prey of another city. There would me much
less social unrest and peace, but at costs of losing the Imperium and
hegemony. That is why the patricians wisely Â´gave the ring to keep
the fingersÂ´ allowing the tribunate.

Really the plebs dindÂ´t understand the Lar Religion of the
patricians, and really havenÂ´t cared about it (F. Coulanges), they
simple would change of city and worship Vesta of some other place.
There wasnÂ´t religious bounds attaching the plebs to some city, at
least on the beggining.

Maybe there would be new imigration, but the patricians always had
the will to have clients, not independent plebs on the city. The
clients were bound to the lar of the patron, they were not Â´people
without religionÂ´ how the plebeians were used to be called (not that
the plebeians didnÂ´t worshipp, but they didnÂ´t have a Familiar Lar
and known Ancestors).

Machiavelli on the Â´Discourse about Titus Livius BooksÂ´ showed
wonderfully this, comparing Sparta and Rome, how Sparta has lost its
hegemony by reducing the growing of the city and its armies, on
opposition of Rome, who brought the glory at costs of social unrest.

The growing of the Plebs was the path to the glory of Rome.

> If the Plebs all left, I should imagine the Patricians would

continue to keep

> the flame to Vesta lit, the Senate in session, and Nova Roma in

existance,

> until new prospective citizens found her.
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile (and very proud of it!!!)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7419	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Comitia Populi Tributa Election Results, election of the 8th Qu

Congratulations, my quaestor!

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus is elected Quaestor for MMDCCLVI.

According

> to the law Publius Tarquitius Rufus can assume the office of

Quaestor

> the 23th of April 2756 A.U.C. (2003). I will soon discuss his
> assignment with himself and one of the higher Magistrate.
>

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7420	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salvete omnes

Carissimus Gaius Galerius Peregrinator, you are totally right. Being a
PAtrician should be a reward for the services to our community, but now
it seems to be just...well, I donÂ´t really know. How can someone get to
be a Patrician? Is it as simple as just choosing it?

Vale

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@...>
Fecha: Lunes, Enero 27, 2003 9:38 pm
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the
majority?)

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> From: M Arminius Maior <marminius@...>
>
>
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
>
> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:45:08 -0300 (ART)
>
>
>
> ...So, in the last year, Nova Roma gained 511 new cives,
>
> and 179 (35%) of them was patricians. That is, with a
>
> census, is possible that the proportion of patricians
>
> grow a bit more...
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Salvete
>
>
>
> I am surprised. I thought some 80% were Patricians, but 35%
> is still
>
> much too high anyway. I hope people are not taking this
> Patrician/Plebeian
>
> division too seriously. Once we're out of the computer that will
> have to
>
> change. We don't have patrician/plebeian classes unless we want
> to be a
>
> role playing group.
>
>
>
> The Patrician title should be strictly applied to the members
> of the
>
> Senate alone. That is, to be a patrician you'd have to earn it
> and now I'll
>
> run for cover.
>
>
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
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>
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7421	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

"Without these first 30 gens' time, effort and commitment there is no NR to grow and receive plebeians. Have you thought of that?"

What came first, the chicken or the egg? I ate the chicken, and then I ate his egg.
Can a flower spontaneously exist with out the Sun, water, and dirt? Did the patricians create Roma in 750 BC, then invite a bunch of poor people to come to their city to be oppressed and exploited? "Look what we've created, poor people. Now since we created this, you shall forever be second class citizens. Come to Rome and worship us"

"The Plebs did attempt to leave and start their own city in the 500s until
they realized that they needed the Pats, to provide protection, since the
best armed citizens were also the richest."

I have a feeling the opposite is true today.

And, by the way, good job on protecting us from the Gauls when they sacked the City.

"If the Plebs all left, I should imagine the Patricians would continue to keep the flame to Vesta lit, the Senate in session, and Nova Roma in existance, until new prospective citizens found her.
Q. Fabius Maximus"

What an arrogant statement. I don't think the entire plebian population leaving en masse would be the best publicity for our organization.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7422	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Well put, Master Faustus!

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:19 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve, dearest consular!

Yes, I sure agree, but even the ancient patricians realized that
without the plebs, the capacity of the roman army would decrease, and
the Republic easy would be prey of another city. There would me much
less social unrest and peace, but at costs of losing the Imperium and
hegemony. That is why the patricians wisely Â´gave the ring to keep
the fingersÂ´ allowing the tribunate.

Really the plebs dindÂ´t understand the Lar Religion of the
patricians, and really havenÂ´t cared about it (F. Coulanges), they
simple would change of city and worship Vesta of some other place.
There wasnÂ´t religious bounds attaching the plebs to some city, at
least on the beggining.

Maybe there would be new imigration, but the patricians always had
the will to have clients, not independent plebs on the city. The
clients were bound to the lar of the patron, they were not Â´people
without religionÂ´ how the plebeians were used to be called (not that
the plebeians didnÂ´t worshipp, but they didnÂ´t have a Familiar Lar
and known Ancestors).

Machiavelli on the Â´Discourse about Titus Livius BooksÂ´ showed
wonderfully this, comparing Sparta and Rome, how Sparta has lost its
hegemony by reducing the growing of the city and its armies, on
opposition of Rome, who brought the glory at costs of social unrest.

The growing of the Plebs was the path to the glory of Rome.

> If the Plebs all left, I should imagine the Patricians would
continue to keep
> the flame to Vesta lit, the Senate in session, and Nova Roma in
existance,
> until new prospective citizens found her.
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile (and very proud of it!!!)

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7423	From: Diana Moravia Aventina	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Patricians Out???

Salve Marcus Minucius Audens,

<I find it unfortunate that you should see the necessity of unsubscribing
Patricians from the "Plebian
<List," even "without malice."

<As with some others here in Nova Roma I see no real reason for a
<"Plebian List" but of course you are quite free to indulge yourself as you
wish.

It is obvious from your comments that you seem to think that I woke up last
week and decided "hey! I'm going to indulge myself and put together a list
for Plebeians! And those mean old nasty patricians better keep out or I am
going to unsubscribe them so quick their heads will spin!!"

The CPT list has been there since Nov 2000. As a former Plebeian, I'm
surprised that you weren't aware of that. When I inherited this list, the
*only* info that I had was the FAQ message written by former Tribune Gnaeus
Moravius Piscinus describing the historical reasons of why his predecessor
had created the list and outlining what the list guidelines were. So I spent
the better part of last weekend deleting non-citizens, ex-citizens,
Patricians, writing a new intro page, writing a new welcome and
unsubscription message, and unbouncing the bouncing members. I sought to
follow the rules as set down more than 2 years ago. I think that I should be
praised for taking the initiative and doing some work rather than getting
criticized.

And I can think of many ways to indulge myself -- certainly spending my
weekend updating the CPT list is not one of them.

<By separating those Patricians who were interested in discussing various
aspects with plebians, you
<have to some degree halted that process, and again to some degree have
caused the beginning
<of some degree of emnity, niether one of which is needed in NR.

There are no discussions between Patricians and Plebeians on the CPT list.
In order for me to halt discussions, they need to have existed in the first
place. The list seems only to have been used in Feb and March 2001 as an
extention of mainlist brawling. These CPT arguments were between Patricians
amongst themselves, Plebeians amongst themselves, or Patricians against
Plebeians. It *was* my goal to change the list into what the list was
created for: a forum for Plebeians to discuss plebeian related issues and
proposed legislature. But it seems that taking initiative is not smiled upon
here, so the list can go back to its uselessness, with no interference from
me. And I can occupy my time with something else on the weekends....

I have just changed the list to allow anyone to join. Plebeians, patricians
and non or ex citizens can join at will without the moderator requiring
their Roman name before approving. Any of my fellow Tribunes are of course
free to change the list to whatever they want, or to kill it if they choose.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis

--- In ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com, Gian G Reali
<piscinus@j...> wrote:
Salvete Quirites:

Who established the Comitia Plebis Tributa list?
The CPT list was established by the previous tribune, Tarquinius Caesar.

Why was a separate list created for the Comitia Plebis Tributa?
Under the Constitution either Tribuni Plebis may call the CPT
to order (Section III.C). Then the CPT alone may "pass laws governing the
rules by which it shall operate internally." In the past our Constitution
was dictated by one individual acting alone. Recently we saw how a
previous Consul attempted to place leges before the Comitia Centuriata
without
first posting them for discussion. Some may believe all our laws
should be dictated or perhaps passed by some chicanery. I prefer that in
the
CPT at least that our Quirites have an opportunity to read and discuss
proposals before they are asked to vote on them. That was the intent
of our previous Tribunus Plebis when he established the list. That is
how he employed the list.

The first order of business for the CPT will be to discuss
procedural matters of just how the comitia should operate. ALL Plebeian
citizens
are members of the CPT. ALL Plebeians have a right to discuss and
decide for themselves how their institutions shall be run. Such procedures
will not be dictated. I again urge all Quirites of the Plebeian order to
subscribe to the CPT's list so that they will have full opportunity to
participate in the proceedings of the comitia.

http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/ComitiaPlebisTributa

What functions do the CPT serve that it would require its own separate
list?

The Comitia Plebis Tributa has three basic functions. The
CPT is one of the legislative bodies of Nova Roma. The CPT is like a house
of
Parliament, with every Plebeian acting as a MP. Just as the Senate
has its own separate email list to discuss issues brought before it, the
CPT uses its list to discuss matter brought before the comitia.

The first major function of the CPT is to consider and vote
upon plebiscita that has the force of law. The CPT list is then for the
Tribuni Plebis to post their proposed legislation, and allow all
Plebeians to discuss such proposals before any vote is made upon
them. Further, since the CPT is a legislative body, and all its members are
equally entrusted with its duties and responsibilities, then every
Quirites of the Plebeian order may post their own proposals for
plebiscita to the list.

A second major function of the CPT is that it acts as a
court (Section III.C.3) Either Tribune may call the comitia to order. In
doing so,
where the comitia is called to act as a court, the Tribune would be
responsible for posting any charges that were to be made. In this way
the Tribuni Plebis employ their power of coercito, as held by them in
Roma Antiqua. Further, the Tribuni Plebis would be responsible for
presenting evidence to the comitia as a prosecuting officer, and would
also be responsible for seeing that the defense would have the same
opportunity to present their evidence. Perhaps one Tribune would act
as advocate, the other as prosecutor. The judicial procedures for the
comitia has still to be worked out by plebiscita. A separate list for
the CPT is thus required for when it sits in session as a court. The
CPT judicial proceedings would be open, however such proceedings do not
belong on the NR main list.

The third function of the CPT is to elect the Tribuni Plebis
and the Aediles Plebis. By plebiscita the CPT could establish additional
Plebeian officers, honores, viatores and curatores as the comitia may
decide is required. The CPT could then also function to elect such
internal officers.

If any Quirites of the Plebeian order wishes to discuss these
functions of their CPT then you should subscribe to the list at :

http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/ComitiaPlebisTributa

Nova Roma Libera semper vivat.
Valete

Moravius Piscinus
Tribunus Plebis

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7424	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@...
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:23:34 EST

...Those gens who took part in the formation of NR, should be honored, and
Patrician status is the way that is done..

---------------------------------------------------------------

That's fine in a mail list, but if we want to become a real republic and
grow, how would you explain it to people: Ok now, we're the patricians and
you're the plebeian second class citizens. Mind you, you'll be saying it to
professionals, professors, successful businessmen, and possibly millionaires
(I'd hope). More so, the patricians would have the same kind of people and
the same ratio of rich and poor, educated and ignorant.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7425	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: URCITANUS <urcitanus@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

...well, I donï¿½t really know. How can someone get to
be a Patrician? Is it as simple as just choosing it?..

--------------------------------------------------------------

That's it. You simply choose to join a patrician family, and that will
make you a first class citizen patrician.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7426	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salvete,

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator wrote:

> That's fine in a mail list, but if we want to become
> a real republic and grow, how would you explain it
> to people: Ok now, we're the patricians and you're
> the plebeian second class citizens.

Sorry, but I have to ask. Why is it that you consider
plebeians to be second class citizens? As a patrician,
I certainly do not consider myself in any way superior
to my plebeian colleagues.

This is merely one of the ways that, by imitation, we
honour the ancients. A label that identifies the gens
of the founding fathers of Nova Roma. And the fact
that anyone can apply to join these patrician gens
belies that myth that patricians in Nova Roma are in
any way better that our plebeian counterparts.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7427	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@...>

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:08:18 +0000 (GMT)

>...Sorry, but I have to ask. Why is it that you consider
>plebeians to be second class citizens? As a patrician,
>I certainly do not consider myself in any way superior
>to my plebeian colleagues...

As a Patrician, you have certain political privileges denied to
you if you were a Plebeian, and that makes you a first class citizen.

>..This is merely one of the ways that, by imitation, we
>honour the ancients. A label that identifies the gens
>of the founding fathers of Nova Roma..

You know that not every Patrician took part in the founding,
and many joined in after the founding.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7428	From: Chantal G. Whittington	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: New Here

Greetings, Octavia--Welcome to Nova Roma! I hope you
will like it here and that the knowledge base of our
citizenry will prove helpful to you.

There are many people here who are quite knowledgeable
about Roman culture. There is a link to special
interest groups (called sodalitates), on the main NR
website. People in those groups should be able to
either help you themselves or point you toward
reference materials which might you might find useful.

It's fascinating to meet someone who writes historical
mysteries. My favorite author in that genre is Anne
Perry, whose knowledge of the Victorian era (in two
time periods) has greatly impressed me.

I look forward to becoming better acquainted. :)

---
Renata Corva
Rogatrix

=====
Chantal
http://www.theranweyr.org

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7429	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Gai Galeri,

> As a Patrician, you have certain political privileges denied to
> you if you were a Plebeian, and that makes you a first class citizen.

Patricians have a very minor political privilege: five extra
century points. Plebeians get something far more valuable:
the ability to vote for or to hold the position of Tribune.
Neither are second class citizens.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7430	From: URCITANUS	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Plebeian outrage!!

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@...>
Fecha: Martes, Enero 28, 2003 4:49 pm
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the
majority?)

>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: URCITANUS <urcitanus@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the
> majority?)
> ...well, I donÂ´t really know. How can someone get to
> be a Patrician? Is it as simple as just choosing it?..
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's it. You simply choose to join a patrician family, and
> that will
> make you a first class citizen patrician.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7431	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:47:48 -0600 (CST)

..Patricians have a very minor political privilege: five extra
century points. Plebeians get something far more valuable:
the ability to vote for or to hold the position of Tribune.
Neither are second class citizens.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

--------------------------------------------------------------

Salve Censor Octavii:

You know, you could not run for Censor or Consul if you were not a
Patrician citizen, and these are the highest offices in Novaroma and that is
a privilege of a first class citizen denied to a Plebeian.

Here I must say that all the people who held/hold these offices, that I
would know of since I joined, were/are of the highest professional quality
and dedication. I am not trying to criticize anybody. In fact, I tip my
hat for these dedicated gentlemen who gave so much, and still do, and that
includes you too, of course.

Vale
Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7432	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Gai Galeri,

> You know, you could not run for Censor or Consul if you were
> not a Patrician citizen, and these are the highest offices in Novaroma
> and that is a privilege of a first class citizen denied to a Plebeian.

Not true; we have no such restrictions. One of our current Consuls
is Plebeian, and a past Consul was Plebeian when he held that office
but later became Patrician.

> Here I must say that all the people who held/hold these offices, that I
> would know of since I joined, were/are of the highest professional quality
> and dedication. I am not trying to criticize anybody. In fact, I tip my
> hat for these dedicated gentlemen who gave so much, and still do, and that
> includes you too, of course.

Thanks!

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7433	From: labienus@novaroma.org	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salvete Gai Galeri omnesque

> You know, you could not run for Censor or Consul if you were not a
> Patrician citizen, and these are the highest offices in Novaroma and that is
> a privilege of a first class citizen denied to a Plebeian.

I'm not sure where you got this impression. In the earliest days of the
ancient Republic, the higher magistracies were restricted to patricians.
However, this was not the case in the middle and late Republic, and it is not
the case in Nova Roma. If you want proof of this, note that I am a plebeian
consul.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7434	From: Kristoffer From	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator wrote:

> You know, you could not run for Censor or
> Consul if you were not a Patrician citizen,
> and these are the highest offices in Novaroma
> and that is a privilege of a first class
> citizen denied to a Plebeian.

(This mail took too long in getting written, so Marcus Octavius has
already said some things I guess I duplicate in this letter. Ah well,
I'm sending it anyway. :) )

Salve, Gai Galeri Peregrinator.

May I point out that this may have been the case in Roma Antiqua, but
most certainly is not in Nova Roma. In fact, the current junior consul,
Titus Labienus Fortunatus, is a member of the plebeian order.

However, I will have to correct Marcus Octavius Germanicus, or at least
add to his statement. He forgot to mention the office of plebeian
aedile, which the patricians can neither stand nor vote for, much the
same as the office of tribune.

So, two offices and two elections, not counting legislative elections
likely to come in the future in the comitia plebis tributa, where
plebeians have their say but patricians don't. The patricians get a
one-time sum of five century points, the same awarded to any scriba for
their work.

In my opinion, this means the patricians are losing out, big time. The
only real compensation is whatever dignitas being a patrician may
entail, or perhaps the perception of being somehow closer to our ancient
forebears.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7435	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:21:01 -0600 (CST)

>..Not true; we have no such restrictions. One of our current Consuls
>is Plebeian,

-------------------------------------------------------------
Then I stand corrected. I was under the impression that only Patricians
could run for Consul.

Thank you very much.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7436	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Gai Galeri,

>>..This is merely one of the ways that, by imitation, we
>>honour the ancients. A label that identifies the gens
>>of the founding fathers of Nova Roma..

> You know that not every Patrician took part in the founding,
>and many joined in after the founding.

Which is why I said that the current system honours the gens of our founding fathers and further, that anyone is entitled to apply to join these gens. The very fact that to become either a patrician or a plebeian is a matter of choice means that neither is, or should be considered, a second class citizen.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7437	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Tite Octavi,

> However, I will have to correct Marcus Octavius Germanicus, or at least
> add to his statement. He forgot to mention the office of plebeian
> aedile, which the patricians can neither stand nor vote for, much the
> same as the office of tribune.

True - but we can run for Curule Aedile, which has much the same
functions. The net effect of all of this is that a Plebeian who
wishes to be Aedile can run for any of four positions, while the
Patricians must contend for only two openings... Plebeians then
effectively have a better chance of becoming Aedile.

> In my opinion, this means the patricians are losing out, big time. The
> only real compensation is whatever dignitas being a patrician may
> entail, or perhaps the perception of being somehow closer to our ancient
> forebears.

We do get to use the more famous names - Iulius, Iunius, Octavius...
That's not quite as good as being Tribune, but it is some compensation.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7438	From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Salve Gai Galeri,

> Then I stand corrected. I was under the impression that only Patricians
> could run for Consul.

No problem... looking at the names of past Consuls, it does give one the
impression that Patricians have an advantage there. I think that this
is merely due to most of the "old-timers" having eventually attained
that position, and that as time goes by and distinguished newcomers
appear, this will be less of a factor, and eventually the majority
of Consulars will be Plebeian.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7439	From: Lucius Arminius Faustus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?) - Aediles wer

Salve Octavius Censor, Salve Octavius Curator, Salve Peregrinator

> However, I will have to correct Marcus Octavius Germanicus, or at

least

> add to his statement. He forgot to mention the office of plebeian
> aedile, which the patricians can neither stand nor vote for, much

the

> same as the office of tribune.

Yes! DonÂ´t forget the plebeian aedilship! Silent one, but not less
important and older than the tribunate! Yes, OLDER!

Now history...

The first aedilship was the plebeian aedilship. On my previous
message, IÂ´ve talked that plebeians and patricians had different
worships, the plebeian on Â´publicÂ´ lares of the plebeain gods (and
sometimes imported gods, like Cibele), the patricians mantaining the
gentilic religion of the Lar of the family, the familiar tomb and the
worship of a known ancestor.

The first and major plebeain goddess was CERES (greek Demeter)
goddess of Agriculture. The Aediles were created to take care of the
Temple of Ceres, the point of meeting of the plebs on the start of
their movement.

The Plebeian Aedilship is so older that its beggining is almost lost.
We donÂ´t have the episode of its formation, like the Tribunate, even
this episode been somewhat legendary.

After, the Patricians created the Curule Aedilship for them, but I
donÂ´t remember if on the beggining it was opened for all. (Well, on
the beginning none of the magistracies were opened to plebeians.) The
Curule Aedilship had the Curule Chair, like the others magistracies
as the consulship and praetorship (see the sucess of the Plebeians
Aediles, they made the patricians jealous of the honour! Just
kidding, I think a magistrate of the Temples and Public Buildings
showed a real necessity), and I suppose the Plebeains Aediles hadnÂ´t
the chair, like the Tribunes that were not considered magistrates on
the real meaning (ie, empowered by auspices for election, having
imperium outside their body, etc).

The Temple of the Pudicitia was a legendary example. There was the
Temple of the Pudicia worshiped by the women. But the wife of the
first Plebeian Consul was forbidden to enter on the temple by the
patricians (that religious problem of the absence of a ancient lar on
the plebeians family). Then she and other plebeian women created the
Â´Plebeian PudicitiaÂ´ Aedes to them. Titus Livius tells it somewhere
on his books. Unfortunatly, there is no vestiges where that
aedes/aediculas were, and some historians find the episode legendary.

On NR, there is no difference between the two Aedilships. Alas, I
think they should easyly work together. But, where you have same
names, the competition always rises, that is the human nature.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile

PS: IÂ´ve said CERES? So wait the Cerealia Ludi on 12-19 of April!

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7440	From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Absentia

Fr. Apulus Caesar Omnibus S.P.D.

I'll be absent from tomorrow to Sunday because I'll go in Wales and London
for a work trip.
In fact I'm technical partner of a UE program "Equal" for the accessibility
to the job by discriminated people and in Cardiff I'll have a class learning
to design websites for people with disabilities.
I'll be in London during the week-end and I hope to meet some britannic nova
romans.
I thing I'll can read my e-mail box but I'm not sure to have to time to
answer.

Valete bene

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7441	From: Kristoffer From	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> We do get to use the more famous names -
> Iulius, Iunius, Octavius... That's not
> quite as good as being Tribune, but it
> is some compensation.

Salve, Marce Octavi Germanice.

Let me join you in pointing out the fame, the dignitas and auctoritas,
associated with some names, such as, for instance, Octavius...;)

Viva Octavia! (We're adopting new members, just contact our
paterfamilias for the required rites. Please include a blank check in
your application.)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

P.S. The "Blank Check"-part was a joke, and a bad one if you had to read
this to realise that. Sorry, odd sense of swedish humour, I guess. D.S.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7442	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

In a message dated 1/28/03 9:47:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
danedwardsuk@... writes:

> is a matter of choice means that neither is, or should be considered, a
> second class citizen

The only second class citizens in Nova Roma are those who do not pay their
dues depriving the republic of much needed revenue. We are all in this
together.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7443	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

yeah, thats it.

And you're under the auctoritas of the paterfamilieas of that gens. So, the patricians grow their membership and increase their power

-----
From: URCITANUS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Plebeian outrage!!

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@...>
Fecha: Martes, Enero 28, 2003 4:49 pm
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the
majority?)

>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: URCITANUS <urcitanus@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the
> majority?)
> ...well, I donÂ´t really know. How can someone get to
> be a Patrician? Is it as simple as just choosing it?..
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's it. You simply choose to join a patrician family, and
> that will
> make you a first class citizen patrician.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7444	From: Decimus Iunius Silanus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

> And you're under the auctoritas of the paterfamilieas of that gens. So, the patricians grow their membership and > increase their power.

It really is unnecessary and counter-productive to attempt to create a them and us situation that doesn't exist.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7445	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

how?

The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
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The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

> And you're under the auctoritas of the paterfamilieas of that gens. So, the patricians grow their membership and > increase their power.

It really is unnecessary and counter-productive to attempt to create a them and us situation that doesn't exist.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7446	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Use famous names all you want. You have no real ties to those long dead people, any more than the lowliest citizen might have, blood or otherwise. Patiricians use merit, in that they created Nova Roma, to justify their privilege. I think that argument is weak. This isn't a business venture. We are trying to recreate a nation. Parcelling out privileges, that stay with their gens for their entire existence, for simply being there at the begining is repugnant to the modern mind. I predict this class distinction will one day be the ruin of Nova Roma.

The noteworthy citizens I've met in here are meretorious because they've earned it. Not because of their name. Service to the Republic should be the only measure for privilege. Any argument to the contrary is simply a privileged few protecting their privilege

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristoffer From
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> We do get to use the more famous names -
> Iulius, Iunius, Octavius... That's not
> quite as good as being Tribune, but it
> is some compensation.

Salve, Marce Octavi Germanice.

Let me join you in pointing out the fame, the dignitas and auctoritas,
associated with some names, such as, for instance, Octavius...;)

Viva Octavia! (We're adopting new members, just contact our
paterfamilias for the required rites. Please include a blank check in
your application.)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

P.S. The "Blank Check"-part was a joke, and a bad one if you had to read
this to realise that. Sorry, odd sense of swedish humour, I guess. D.S.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7447	From: Gnaeus Salix Astur	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE PRIORIBVS EDICTIBVS PRAETORICIBVS

Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Ex officio praetorium.

EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE PRIORIBVS EDICTIBVS PRAETORICIBVS

According to the Lex Arminia de Ratione Edictorum, the following
praetorial edictum is considered still valid for the year MMDCCLVI:

Edictum Praetoricium "Praetores May Act on Behalf of Absent
Patresfamilias" issued by T. Labienus Fortunatus:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/praetor-2002-08-07.html

Datum a.d. VII Kalendis Februarii anno MMDCCLVI a.U.C.

Gnaeus Salix Astur, praetor.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CNÂ·SALIXÂ·ASTVRÂ·TÂ·FÂ·AÂ·NEPÂ·TRIBÂ·OVF
PRAETORÂ·ETÂ·SENATOR
TRIVMVIRÂ·ACADEMIAE
LICTORÂ·CVRIATVS

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7448	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Patricians Out

Citizens;

My purpose in my previous E-Mail under the above subject, was directed
at bringing people together not driving them apart. Those who refer to
Patricians as a class and deliniating activities which in antiquity were
considered to be the priveledge of the class, but today are not, simply
argue in the same paradihm as that which includes slavery and the right
of women to vote. Those problems are not found in Nova Roma, or if they
are to some small degree, in some reote area of NR, the individual
engaging in them should be named and not a class of citizens who abhor
the idea of clients, and of being a superior class to Plebians.

There are those who have risen from Plebian to Parician through service
to NR, rather than being simply the first to enroll in the micronation.
Many of these gens have been unfailing in thier dedication to NR, and
the reference to these gens as somethig less than they have been
involved in, is very unfair, to my mind. I make no distinction between
Pleb and Pat, as I have said, and reference to my group as being such is
nether beneficial to me personnally nor is it fair. Such sweeping
accusations have been a cause for the departure of many from Nova Roma
previously and I would not have that happen again.

I come from Plebian stock and I too am proud of that. I have raised my
Gens to Patrician through service to NR, and I am proud of that as well.
Finally, I have completed the Cursus Honorium, and have gone on to hold
several Magestries for the benefit of NR. That I am also proud of.

If the Plebian List, to which I earlier referred, is in fact a Plegian
Congress of some kind

(which I did not understand, and such was no made clear to all NR
Citizens to my knowledge)
then perhaps the ideas under discussion within such a Congress should be
placed on the Main List by the Tribunes such as the Senate Agenda is
currently provided to all NR Citzens Plebian and Patrician alike.
Further, perhaps the results of any decisions reached by a majority
within such a Congress might also be placed on the Main List by the
Tribunes, again as are provided to all by the Senate. I personnally,
have no desire to be involved in the thought processes of any individual
Plebian, much as I see no reason for anyone being ivolved in my own, for
the reasons which I have stated very clearer of numerous previous
occasions. If there are citizens who do not trust me to reach my Senate
decisions without deceit, or treachery, I welcome such a discussion and
the basis for such a lack of trust. To date I have received nothing
along those lines, and so I must assume that no-one in NR feels that way
about my decisions, so I continue to wonder why anyone would want to
review my thought and decision processes , other than for simply
something to ridicule or commentupon as to how they could have done it
better. There will always be Monday-Morning Quarterbacking from those
who are not responsible for thier decisions, and I suppose human nature
being what it is, there will always be such.

I suspect that were the Patricians to gather together and form a
Patrician's List, excluding all Plebians, the outcry would be similar to
what objections have been raised for the Plebian List, only
significantly greater. I am, true to say, a Patrician, and I hold
several honors granted to me by the Citizens of Nova Roma, which I hold
dear, but most of all I am a Citizen of NR, and a Senator. I am
interested in what is going on within the micronation which will affect
her in comig years, and I have been the the responsibility for such a
charge by the Citizens of Nova Roma. I like to think that perhaps my
views have some very small value in such deliberations, and I should be
bitterly disappointed to be left out of such.

Further, as I mentioned previously the loss of ideas jointly generated
by the views of Pleb and Pat alike can never be measured except to note
that in the past what good and advantages have been wrought by free
association of such ideas.

In closing, may I respectfully suggest that if anyone is concerned about
any actions that are taken which seems to put anyone or any class down,
that the individuals be identified rather than hiding behind group names
to avoid unpleasantness, and thereby painting all citizens in that class
with the same "tarbrush."

Perhaps the fist thirty Gens of Nova Roma, and those Gens since raised
to Patrician Status might be reviewed to determine thier support of Nova
Roma since the date of inception. Those Patrician Gens which have
contributed nothing to Nova Roma since that date could then be
considered for a change to Plebian, and selected Plebian Families
wishing the honor could be raised to Patrician in replacemet, up to the
original thirty families, for service to NR. In today's NR, this is, to
my understanding, supposed to be the bringing of the "BEST" of ancient
Rome into the 21st century, and the worst left behind. Patrician Class
should be an honor, and an honor recognized by all Ctizens in NR, and
little more since financial and educational attributes between the two
classes mean little in the modern day.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7449	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Patricians Out

Mistress Aventina;

You certainly have the right to believe as you wish. However, I don't
believe I have said or indicated any of the rather childish responses
that you have laid at my door. I have not criticized you for your
effort, rather I have expressed my disappointment at your determination
between Pleb and Pat.

I was not aware of this list, as Master Picinius and I did not have a
great deal of intercourse in the past, he being a strong supporter of
another former NR member and I an opponent. It now seems that Master
Picinius and I now see in much the same area, in much the same way, and
for that I am pleased.

I was not aware of your communications relating to the list that you
inherited, nor was I involved in it's creation. I commented as politely
as I could regarding my concerns as a Senator, and I had hoped to get
from you a more reasonable explanation of why you had deleted Patricians
from that list without explanation, notice or discussion. If I did not
make that clear in my message you have my apology and regrets. I have
indicated some of my ideas for such a list based on the explanations
provided by Senator -------------- and comments by others. I would ask
that you would read again my concerns and my feelings both for plebs and
Pats in my messages to the Main List. "Mean Old Patrcians" I don't
believe accurtely portrays the ideas that I have tried to promulgate,
however, as always you are free to believe as you wish.

It is to my mind, absolutely necessary that Plebs and Pats work together
in the building of NR. Niether group can exist without the other. It
si certainly true that if the Plebs left Nova Roma the Patricians would
probably hold on until new applicants were gained. However, tat would
result in a terrible slowing of our micronation goals, perhaps even
leading to discouragement and ultimate failure. By the same token Plebs
could choose some more equitable way of appointing Patricians in any
environment where they chose to go it alone, and the same effects might
well occur based on the numbers of active Plebians. I do not wish to
argue with you or to make accusations, or to accuse you of saying
something that you do not think or did not say.

I was expressing my concern as a Senator, and hoping for a quiet and
factual explanantion of what seemed to me to be a deliberate action. If
that was not clear to you, again you have my apology, and I shall not
refer again to this situation with you.

I am however, disappointed that you see me now as an enemy, someone to
be ridiculed, and one to respond critically to, since I have long held
you in high esteem.

Regretfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7450	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-To my cousins & fellow citizens

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to my Galeria cousins and all interested parties. Salve.

I believe that we have gotten a little far from the original field of why should there be a plebian list. Diana Moravia answered the question and it was a good answer. All this patrician vs. plebians discussion is a bit rough. The Social Wars have long been fought and settled. The Republic was an organic state with plebians being adopted into Patrician families, Plebian consuls, and Plebian generals. The Gracchi fought and died to establish a balanced state where the two parts of the Republic would be more or less equal in legislative and executive power.
Nova Roma strives towards its goals with the aid of both Patricians and Plebians. I have never given much thought about my status as a plebian. I joined my Gens for reasons completely separated from a consideration of Patrician status. I believe most who joined their gens had reasons apart from whether or not it would make them a Patrician. For those that are active in Nova Roma the reward is not measured by patrician/plebian status or political points, but in the good thoughts & opinions of our fellow citizens and our gens. I know this is my motivation. May the gods grant peace and concord to all in the Republic.

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7451	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

Vivat, noble sir. That is most well said!

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Citizen

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7452	From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

----Original Message Follows----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@...

>...The only second class citizens in Nova Roma are those who do not pay
>their
>dues depriving the republic of much needed revenue. We are all in this
>together...

---------------------------------------------------------------
And speaking of which, when is the tax season due anyway. I don't want
to be a tax beat.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7453	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-To my cousin G. Galerius Peregrinator

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to his cousin Gaius Galerius Peregrinator. Salve.

We current Galeri have much to strive for since a Galeria was the senior consul during 822 AUC--our illustrious "ancestor" P. Galerius Trachalus (a plebian according to my sources).

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7454	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-Sweet Sulis-Minerva! A Miracle.

By the fountain of Sulis-Minerva and the Club of Hercules! A Miracle has occurred! I actually find myself in agreement with Q. Fabius Maximus (aka the Big Bean). It is surely a sign of the end of the world. Ack!

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
(aka the Big Joker)

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7455	From: A. Apollonius Cordus	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

First I'd like to disassociate myself from the current
attempts of a few citizens from both patrician and
plebeian classes to re-fight the plebeian secession of
the early republic. It's not productive and I fear it
may be becoming impolite.

Second, I'd like to clarify my earlier statements, as
they seem to have been misunderstood. I'm aware that I
do go on a bit, but that's usually from a desire to
make myself absolutely clear and not open to
misintepretation. Apparently I failed to make myself
clear in my last message, so I may well go on for even
longer in this one, I'm afraid.

So far only one person who responded to my suggestion
has attempted to address the issue I was actually
raising, which was the similarity between the Plebeian
Assembly and the Senate in terms of their openness and
its desirability. Consul and Senator Fortunatus
commented:

"In antiquity, the Senate was a relatively
private body which was only open to a few hundred
people. Its deliberations were only made public in
digest form, when made public at all.

The comitia, however, were public in nature and
intent. They were, and are, representative of the
democratic element in the mixed Roman government.
Therefore, anything that happens before one of the
trina comitia, whether a vote on a lex or trial or an
election, ought to be as public as possible."

We have already heard on this list at considerable
length (all in the archives) the evidence concerning
the openness of the Senate to spectators in the
ancient republic. It was indeed "relatively private",
but the doors were apparently usually open (until the
very late republic, by which time I'm sure we would
all agree the consitution was showing considerable
dysfunction), allowing as many people as could
conveniently fit in the space to watch and listen if
they wanted. There's some evidence to suggest that the
door could be closed on some occasions, but it
generally was not. This much I think we have agreed
already.

The Plebeian Assembly, we heard just the other day,
was not open to non-plebeians, but anyone could sit or
stand nearby and thus hear something of what was going
on.

So it seems to me that the distinction is not very
great. In one case we have a meeting closed to
non-participants but which could usually be observed,
and in the other case we have a meeting closed to
non-participants but which could usually be observed.
The Plebeian Assembly was larger, and met outdoors,
and so in practice it was probably more easily
observable than the Senate, which met indoors. But I'm
not convinced that this should be seen as a difference
of intent or spirit rather than simply a practicality.

The Consul is quite correct to say that it is
democratically desirable for law-making processes to
be heard and witnessed by the public. This argument
applies equally to the Senate, if not more strongly.
The Senate passes senatus consulta much more
frequently than the Plebeian Assembly passes laws, and
whatever the situation in the ancient republic, in
Nova Roma senatus consulta are laws. They have legal
force according to the constitution. Their force is
lower than that of laws, and they can therefore be
overridden, but until a senatus consultum is overruled
by lex or edict it has legal force and is binding on
the entire population: it is a law. Moreover, the
Senate must ratify changes to the constitution, which
is almost the highest law in the state, and it
therefore has the final say (except when a dictator is
in power) on constitutional law. If it is desirable
for the legislative Assemblies to be public because
they make law, then exactly the same argument applies
to the Senate.

Both the Consul and Senator Drusus have added to my
list of "three strongest arguments" against total
transparency for the Senate. I would like to stress
that it was a list of the three strongest arguments,
in my own opinion. It was not and did not claim to be
a list of all the arguments. However, I take due note
of these additions. Senator Drusus' argument, that as
a Board of Directors the Senate will sometimes need to
discuss sensitive matters, I had intended to be
covered by one of my three arguments, which was that
sometimes the Senate would need to discuss sensitive
issues. The Consul's historical argument I've
discussed above, and I must respectfully disagree with
the view that the Senate was historically closed.

Senator and Consular Maximus commented:

"Next, the reasons given being not persuasive enough
for you, I'd suggest you enter the honorum and get
your Senate seat. Then perhaps you will understand."

I would respectfully ask the Consular to read my last
message carefully. I know it was rather wordy and
tedious, but I made special efforts in it to make sure
that people did not make the mistake that he seems to
have made. This may well have been my fault, and in
case it was, I shall try again:

The reasons given *are* persuasive enough for me to
agree that it would be undesirable for our Senate now
to be as open to public view as was the Senate in the
ancient republic. I have stated several times, as
clearly as I can, that I agree with this argument.
However, I also feel that it would be possible and
desirable for it to be more open than it is presently.
No one has attempted to persuade me otherwise, nor
given any arguments to suggest that my suggestion for
making it so is undesirable. Others have also made
suggestions which have not been refuted. I hope that
the Tribunes will try out one of these ideas when
telling us about the next meeting of the Senate.

I would like, therefore, to invite anyone who takes an
interest in such things to try to persuade me that it
would be a bad thing for the Tribunes to make public a
summary of the arguments heard in meetings of the
Senate, without naming any individual Senator in that
summary. So far no one has tried to persuade me, and I
remain unpersuaded.

Finally, the Consular asked me a question:

"As far as the day to day running of NR is concerned,
is every gathering of the MPs televised?"

No, though there is a digital television channel
devoted to broadcasting live from the House of
Commons. Moreover, anyone may arrive unannounced at
the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
Gallery whenever the House is sitting (see
http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hcio/gallery.cfm
for more details). Also, the full minutes of the
proceedings of the Houses of Parliament are
transcribed in Hansard, which is available to the
general public. Finally, it is worth remembering that
members of the press are, like the public, free to
watch sessions of Parliament and to report on them in
as much detail as they wish, down to the sweat on the
speakers' brows, in the national and international
media. I hope this answers your question.

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7456	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Gaius Basilicatus Agricola.

Once again, you show you are a lawyer. "Auctoritas of the paterfamilias"--perhaps in theory but not in practice.

Bad Joke Reference-Three men walk into a caupona; a lawyer, a drunk, and a pimp. Oh sorry, that was just the first man.
[JOKE, JOKE!!! Please don't sue me. Whine! Gringe! Curl into the fetal position!]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7457	From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Plebian / Patrician

NR Citizens;

There is perhaps another honor here which may only be involved in a few
cases. The anchestor of my gens (Marcus Minucius Audens), from whom I
have taken my Roman name, served in the legions (Legio XX) first as a
legionairy and later as a "Miles Immunes -Gromaciti" (Military Surveyor
Specialist). He was a Plebian and could not in his lifetime have
aspired to the status of Patrician, outside of a phenomenal stroke of
good fortune. As far as we know, and as expressed on his burial altar,
found in Great Britain, this did not happen. I am extremely pleased and
proud to say that I have been in some small way involved in raising my
anchestor's Gens to Patrician, something of which he would have been
inordinately proud.

If in Nova Roma, we undertake to honor the Gens that we enter, and honor
those anchestors whose name we choose, then one of my great successes,
to me, is to present my ancestor with something that he would never have
been able to achieve, very much as presenting my biological father with
something of great value to him in the modern day.

Perhaps none who have criticized my being a Patrician and former Plebian
will understand that, and that is all right too, since the understanding
need really be no-one;s my my es and mine. However, while we are
expounding on the privaledges of being a Patrcian, this privaledge is
the one that I hold most dear, and is the one which I sincerely hope
that each member of the Gens Minucia holds to be of some degree of value
as relates to thier personal beliefs.

I am not as I have said before, at all ashamed of my Plebian entrance to
Nova Roma. I had been very kindly offered the Gens of a Patrician upon
my entrance, but decided that while I valued the offer, I should make my
own way. That person, Senator Q. Fabius Maximus, will always have my
strong appreciation for his very kind and generous offer. I had hoped
that I could make something of myself and my Gens on my own, and I
sincerely hope that my adopted ancestor is as pleased with my gift to
him, as I am in having been able to present it.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7458	From: labienus@novaroma.org	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

Salvete Aule Apolloni omnesque

I have no quarrel with your primary argument. I would have no problem with any
tribunus plebis who chose to summarize the various arguments raised in the
Senate to the populace. The question of how much to report to the people is
for each tribunus to address on an issue-by-issue basis, and is an implicit
part of their constitutionally mandated powers and duties. If you want more
information, then please do lobby the tribuni plebis to give it to you.

Where we part ways is in our various interpretations of the ancient record
regarding the openness of the ancient Senate.

<much pruning follows>

> We have already heard on this list at considerable
> length (all in the archives) the evidence concerning
> the openness of the Senate to spectators in the
> ancient republic. It was indeed "relatively private",
> but the doors were apparently usually open...
>
> The Plebeian Assembly, we heard just the other day,
> was not open to non-plebeians, but anyone could sit or
> stand nearby and thus hear something of what was going
> on.
>
> The Plebeian Assembly was larger, and met outdoors,
> and so in practice it was probably more easily
> observable than the Senate, which met indoors. But I'm
> not convinced that this should be seen as a difference
> of intent or spirit rather than simply a practicality.

I disagree almost entirely. The Senate met in a templum or the Senate
building. Neither type of edifice had large doors. Only a few people could
comfortably crowd around them, and only the tribuni plebis were allowed to sit
within the vestibule of the Senate's meeting place. Anyone who was not a
tribunus would be relegated to the steps, from which I doubt that a person
could catch more than a glimpse of a Senator or a snatch of an impassioned
speech.

The comitia, on the other hand, met outdoors and involved a very large
gathering of people. Orators addressing the crowd had to speak quite loudly,
and aides would loudly repeat the speech amid the crowd so that those in the
back might hear. Unlike a meeting of the Senate, any passers by might easily
overhear what was going on whether they wanted to or not.

And, on the subject of the intent or spirit of the two bodies, one might note
that C Iulius Caesar's posting of the Senate's business for all to read was
both controversial and the act of the foremost member of the popular cause.
Prior to that, access to the Senate's business was almost always very tightly
controlled. Indeed, throughout the history of the Republic, the Senate opposed
sharing itself with the general public of Rome. In other words, the Senate was
and is oligarchic (or aristocratic if one prefers) in nature.

On the other hand, the Concilium Plebis (which we refer to as the Comitia
Plebis Tributa) was meant to be a collection of the vast majority of the Roman
voting population. From its inception, it was a very public affair dedicated
to the interests of the common man. It was and is democratic in nature; a
completely different beast from the Senate.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7459	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

-----Original Message-----
From : Gaius Galerius Peregrinator <gaiusgalerius@...>

> That's fine in a mail list, but if we want to become a real republic and
>grow, how would you explain it to people: Ok now, we're the patricians and
>you're the plebeian second class citizens. Mind you, you'll be saying it to
>professionals, professors, successful businessmen, and possibly millionaires
>(I'd hope). More so, the patricians would have the same kind of people and
>the same ratio of rich and poor, educated and ignorant.
>

That is just the problem that led the Republic into the Monarchy and in later times similar aristocratic snobbery led Russia and Germany into populist totalitarianism. There's no certain way of knowing where the Patricians came from but a good guess is that Plebes were retainers, freedmen, immigrants, conquered. That was how life worked in an early slave society. It wasn't so different in the England, France and USA of 200 years ago. It's not an attractive way for it to work now. It is not even how the Roman Empire worked. It can be modified - for instance everybody starts Plebeian and can become Patrician. Gentes had branches on both sides. It could go in reverse like the reformed British House of Lords and its appointee life peers, nobility follows position rather than confers it.
In point of fact, this sort of snobbery is a manifest drawback to most of the free-enterprise extreme capitalist micronations. In their case, they are all dominated by money rather than status but that domination makes it hard to imagine why anybody needing to work for a living would want to risk dependence upon the competitive credentials of founding plutocrats to out-strip each other in offering wages. In other words, their financial structure mitigates against a working class they need to run their show joining. Likewise, creation of a genuinely privileged closed aristocracy is going to be about as attractive to those necessarily excluded as permanent slavery. (I'm all in favour of temporary slavery for the Public Good)
V. Ambrosius Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7460	From: Adrian Gunn	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Nova Britannia Chat Room Tonight - All Welcome!

Salvete!

The weekly Nova Britannia chat will be held tonight from 9:00 pm to
10:00 pm EST at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat

All are welcome!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7461	From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)

-----Original Message-----
From : Gaius Galerius Peregrinator <gaiusgalerius@...>

>
> You know, you could not run for Censor or Consul if you were not a
>Patrician citizen, and these are the highest offices in Novaroma and that is
>a privilege of a first class citizen denied to a Plebeian.
>

You would not do any of these in Ancient Rome unless you had a penis - for the good reason that they ultimately refer to decisions about warfare in which women did not indulge.
However, that has changed here. It follows that other things, such as patrician status by individual appointment, might also modernise. Offices open to all constitute a possibly greater change since they reflect on the Tribunes Plebum. On the other hand, that was always an office far too powerful without enough responsibility, so perhaps shhould be looked at.

V. Ambrosius Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7462	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-Sweet Sulis-Minerva! A Miracle.

In a message dated 1/28/03 12:27:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:

> I actually find myself in agreement with Q. Fabius Maximus (aka the Big
> Bean). It is surely a sign of the end of the world. Ack!
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
> (aka the Big Joker)
>

Galerius, get it right will ya? It's the Big Green Bean. And I don't
believe the end will come soon. Our augur L. Equitius would have informed
me.

Fabius Maximus
AKA the fifth big green bean.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7463	From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Keep me informed. Our two provinces should maintain close relations.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
America Austraorientalis

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7464	From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Re: Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)

In a message dated 1/28/03 12:28:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@... writes:

> No, though there is a digital television channel
> devoted to broadcasting live from the House of
> Commons. Moreover, anyone may arrive unannounced at
> the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
> Gallery whenever the House is sitting

Really? I did not know this. Thank you for the information. Is this still
true in the current terrorist atmosphere?

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7465	From: rexmarciusnr	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Roman Coins

Salvete omnes!

I was wondering whether anyone among the Nova Roma populace collects
antique Roman coins. My own collection is still pretty small
and "imperial" in nature but I am quite willing to considerably
enlarge it in the future.

I would be interested to learn more about good English books on the
subject (I have access to some German and French literature) and
reputable Internet dealers. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Avete et Valete

Marcus Marcius Rex

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7466	From: lanius117@aol.com	Date: 2003-01-28
Subject: Roman programs in February

Salvete omnes,

Two television programs in February on The History Channel that cives might
find interesting:

Feb 13 - The True Story of Gladiators - 8:00 PM EST
Feb 23 - Weapons of the Gladiators - 10:30 PM EST

Vale,

GAIVS LANIVS FALCO
Acting Praefectus Sodalitas Egressus, Provincia Britannia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7467	From: Greg Rothenberger	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@...]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7468	From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

That's a great joke! Don't apologize. We like to think of ourselves as "full-service" professionals.

----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics-response to the lawyer

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Gaius Basilicatus Agricola.

Once again, you show you are a lawyer. "Auctoritas of the paterfamilias"--perhaps in theory but not in practice.

Bad Joke Reference-Three men walk into a caupona; a lawyer, a drunk, and a pimp. Oh sorry, that was just the first man.
[JOKE, JOKE!!! Please don't sue me. Whine! Gringe! Curl into the fetal position!]

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Group: Nova-Roma	Message: 7469	From: Stephen Gallagher	Date: 2003-01-29
Subject: Re: Greetings and belated introduction

Salve we like people to write in areas of Roman history ie cooking, politics whatever that is of interest to THEM. What of Rome holds your interest? That is what you can write on . I must say up front that we have a lot of Military history and two people fighting gin the kitchen already. well what are you Roman interests?

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:28 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@...]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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