Salve we like people to write in areas of Roman history ie cooking, politics whatever that is of interest to THEM. What of Rome holds your interest? That is what you can write on . I must say up front that we have a lot of Military history and two people fighting gin the kitchen already. well what are you Roman interests?

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:28 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@...]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction


Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus



----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius


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In a message dated 1/27/03 7:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlasalle@... writes:

Salve,

> Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is
> ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much
> bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.
>
> What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma
> be then?

And what if the sky fell in, Samsung stopped producing televisions, and
the price of donuts went up to $50 a dozen? Where would you be *then,*
huh?

There's not much of a point to postulating this kind of scenarios. As
well, your question sounds like a threat - and I seriously doubt that
you want to threaten anyone here; that's a no-win situation.

If such a situation did arise, we have a number of people here, both
plebeian and patrician, who would work to resolve and avoid it; NovaRoma
needs *everyone*, patrician and plebeian, working together in order to
grow, not people attempting to drive a wedge where none should exist.
Also, let me note that status and privilege for those who were first is
pretty much a universal constant in all the cultures with which I'm
familiar. You may not like it, but it's a solid fact.

I belong to a patrician gens - and am very proud of the fact that my
paterfamilias, Marcus Minucius Audens' service was so recognized by
NovaRoma (note that this is _not_ a case of privilege and status for the
"first".) However, I don't believe that my viewpoint would be any
different if my gens was plebeian - as it originally was.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
Said and done.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"

okey dokey

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)


In a message dated 1/27/03 7:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jlasalle@... writes:

Salve,

> Giving status and privilege to a few simply because they were "first" is
> ludicrous. Such classifications do no good. It was the source of much
> bloodshed, civil war, and destruction during our forefathers' time.
>
> What if all the plebs just got up and left Nova Roma? What would Nova Roma
> be then?

And what if the sky fell in, Samsung stopped producing televisions, and
the price of donuts went up to $50 a dozen? Where would you be *then,*
huh?

There's not much of a point to postulating this kind of scenarios. As
well, your question sounds like a threat - and I seriously doubt that
you want to threaten anyone here; that's a no-win situation.

If such a situation did arise, we have a number of people here, both
plebeian and patrician, who would work to resolve and avoid it; NovaRoma
needs *everyone*, patrician and plebeian, working together in order to
grow, not people attempting to drive a wedge where none should exist.
Also, let me note that status and privilege for those who were first is
pretty much a universal constant in all the cultures with which I'm
familiar. You may not like it, but it's a solid fact.

I belong to a patrician gens - and am very proud of the fact that my
paterfamilias, Marcus Minucius Audens' service was so recognized by
NovaRoma (note that this is _not_ a case of privilege and status for the
"first".) However, I don't believe that my viewpoint would be any
different if my gens was plebeian - as it originally was.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
Said and done.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'd like to see an article on Roman lawyer pimps. Who got drunk a lot.

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction


Salve we like people to write in areas of Roman history ie cooking, politics whatever that is of interest to THEM. What of Rome holds your interest? That is what you can write on . I must say up front that we have a lot of Military history and two people fighting gin the kitchen already. well what are you Roman interests?

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:28 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

I should be very glad to assist you in any way possible. Did you have
something specific in mind, or something more in the way of general
guidelines? And thanks very much for responding.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@...]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction


Salve M. Stellatinus Gregorius and Welcome.

If you have the time and the interest I have a proposition for you. I am
the Editor of the Eagle, our Nova Roma newsletter. Do you have any interest
in writing for Nova Roma's hometown paper? If you do drop me a line and we
can "talk".

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Quaestor et Cohors Aedilis GnEm
Fortuna Favet Fortibus



----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Rothenberger
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and belated introduction

Hello,

I joined Nova Roma some time ago, but due to various personal
constraints was never able to meet any other citizens in my area. I
hope to be able to change that now.

About me: I'm very much interested in seeing Nova Roma increase while
remaining true to its republican ideals. Imperial Rome is so much
more popular in the public view that I tend to be afraid it might
influence NR. I also am interested in music and poetry. I hope to
learn Latin someday well enough to use it conversationally, but am
not anywhere near that point yet. Professionally, I work two jobs:
one for our local public library in computer/internet support, and
another for a national retail chain doing film processing and photo
development. If anyone can see how those might fit in with the needs
of NR, I would be glad to offer my services. I live in the
metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky (USA) area, on the Indiana side of
the river.

Anyway, I would like to suggest some kind of get-together for Nova
Romans in this area. I'd be glad to coordinate it, so I'll throw out
for discussion Cherokee Park in Louisville as a location, and the
Saturday after the Spring equinox as a date. That would be March 22d,
2003. I hope to hear from others who would be interested in something
like that, and we'll go from there.

Thanks,

M. Stellatinus Gregorius


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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.cvrlab.org/







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.





_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> okey dokey

Hilarious.

I really like the QT Model section. This is a great
site.


Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Mac OSX iChat/AIM: WyrdCharlie
YahooMsgr: iguard2

Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering whatever happened
to you.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.






----Original Message Follows----
From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> okey dokey

Hilarious.



_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Salve if you click the one named Forum Romanum is't the building on the left the Senate house?

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:50 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma








----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.





_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:56:25 -0500

Salve if you click the one named Forum Romanum is't the building on the
left the Senate house?

-------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow I always thought of it as a simple building. My facts are all
messed up. It must be television, and that's why I got rid of it. I think
its ruins are still standing, do we know how the inside looked like? Are
there any description, or we have to settle with what Hollywood portrayed it
to be.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

That is so much to say (in regard to this thread): witness farcical
thespian solemnity bandy with provincial plainness; the fool will always
have at the truth.

Behold the natural philosopher, how he comports himself against the
enforcèd ceremony of ressentiment.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:51
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@...]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > okey dokey
>
> Hilarious.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Oh: it was you with whom I shared some good threads during winter break
when a meditative hush prevailed!

How goes it, man?

Well met.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator [mailto:gaiusgalerius@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:55
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering
> whatever happened
> to you.
>
> Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@...>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@...]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > okey dokey
>
> Hilarious.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

PS. That was a hideous intrusion of majuscules which took place in
January; I'm glad the worst is over.

Pitrinius

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 07:08
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> the majority?)
>
>
> Oh: it was you with whom I shared some good threads during
> winter break
> when a meditative hush prevailed!
>
> How goes it, man?
>
> Well met.
>
> Pitrinius
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
> [mailto:gaiusgalerius@...]
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:55
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> >
> >
> > Hey, glad to see you're still around, I was wondering
> > whatever happened
> > to you.
> >
> > Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis" <pitrinius@...>
> > Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > the majority?)
> > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 06:51:00 +0100
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Gaius Basilicatus Agricola [mailto:jlasalle@...]
> > > Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 06:37
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really
> > > the majority?)
> > >
> > >
> > > okey dokey
> >
> > Hilarious.
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani


Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Omnibus Civibus Novae Romae SPD,

According to the Constitution each Quaestor has been assigned to a
higher Magistratii by mutual agreement. The establishment of this
agreement have had to wait because of the election of the 8th
Quaestor. The following list show these assignments:

Consules
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Quaestor Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Consul Titus Labienus Fortunatus and Quaestor Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

Praetores
Praetor Gnaeus Salix Astur and Quaestor Claudius Salix Davianus
Praetor Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Quaestor Decimus Iunius Silanus

Curule Aediles
Curule Aedile Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Quaestor Manius Constantinus Serapio
Curule Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and Quaestor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Plebeian Aediles
Plebeian Aedile Lucius Arminius Faustus and Quaestor Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Plebeian Aedile Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus and Quaestor
Lucius Arminius Faustus
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

> Not true; we have no such restrictions. One of our current Consuls
> is Plebeian, and a past Consul was Plebeian when he held that office
> but later became Patrician.

Salve,

You're right on all points but this one. If you're speaking of Marcus
Minucius Audens or Quintus Fabius Maximus, both of them were
patricians when they held the office of Consul in 2000. However, they
both started as plebeians. Gens Minucia was elevated to Patrician in
Dec. 1998, gens Fabia became patrician in July 1999. Titus Labienus
is the first plebeian to be *elected* Consul. The first and only
other plebeian to hold the office of consul was Consul Suffectus
Quintus Caecilius Metellus, who replaced Flavius Vedius in Sept. 1998
after his resignation. Incidently, Metellus was a founding senator of
Nova Roma, one of the 4 original senators--and chose to be a plebeian
(he was also Plebeian Aedile for that year though the annals
incorrectly show the position as vacant).

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO GERMANICO SALUTEM:

Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every email bereft of
Roman date is a blemish and trespass.



* http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calender/cview

* http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cview

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis [mailto:pitrinius@...]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 29. Januar 2003 08:15
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] A Prometheus under Menschen
>
>
> ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO
> GERMANICO SALUTEM:
>
> Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every
> email bereft of
> Roman date is a blemish and trespass.
>
>
>
> * http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calender/cview
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600
>
> http://www.cvrlab.org/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Yes. Go to the aforementioned http://www.cvrlab.org page and look to
the lower left of the page, to the column that says "Portfolio, Works
in Progress." In that column, click on the Curia Iulia (the Senate).
It will show you a cutout of the inside from the side of the building
and it will show you a shot through the open door towards the curule
dais.

The building stands intact in the forum today. It was restored from
the original material (except the doors which stayed on St. John
Lateran unfortunately) in the 1930s. There are pics of the actual
inside and outside available elsewhere on the web, I believe on a
site called Forum Romanum. A google search for Curia Iulia should
lead you to pics of the actual building, though the virtual images
here give a better idea what it looked like when in use in ancient
times.

The Curia was damaged in the late 3rd century, early 4th century.
This is the rebuilt version put up by Diocletian, though I have read
it was rebuilt by him to the exact specifications of the original.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and attach it to an e-mail

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: deciusiunius
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:26 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Galerius Peregrinator"
<gaiusgalerius@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@k...>
> Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600
>
> http://www.cvrlab.org/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Yes. Go to the aforementioned http://www.cvrlab.org page and look to
the lower left of the page, to the column that says "Portfolio, Works
in Progress." In that column, click on the Curia Iulia (the Senate).
It will show you a cutout of the inside from the side of the building
and it will show you a shot through the open door towards the curule
dais.

The building stands intact in the forum today. It was restored from
the original material (except the doors which stayed on St. John
Lateran unfortunately) in the 1930s. There are pics of the actual
inside and outside available elsewhere on the web, I believe on a
site called Forum Romanum. A google search for Curia Iulia should
lead you to pics of the actual building, though the virtual images
here give a better idea what it looked like when in use in ancient
times.

The Curia was damaged in the late 3rd century, early 4th century.
This is the rebuilt version put up by Diocletian, though I have read
it was rebuilt by him to the exact specifications of the original.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius


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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:36:51PM -0600, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote:

> okey dokey

The world will be beating a path to your door anytime now; such lucidity
and clarity of expression will not go unrecognized for long.

<http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5011/acronyms.html#GOAT>


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Occam's Razor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and

attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.


Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

Salve I sent it direct

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: deciusiunius
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:51 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and
attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.


Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----Original Message Follows----
From: "deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>" <bcatfd@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3-D Roma
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:50:50 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve there is a picture of it in the January Eagle I will try and

attach it to an e-mail

Don't send it to the group address, attachments can't be sent through
the list.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I think he meant it to me since my issue got lost in the mail.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 08:14:55AM +0100, Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis wrote:

> ante diem IV Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI. MARCO OCTAVIO GERMANICO SALUTEM:
>
> Your calendar* proceedeth from a piety non-pareil; every email bereft of
> Roman date is a blemish and trespass.

"Epigram Engraved on the Collar of a Dog Which I Gave to His Royal Highness"

I am his Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?

-- Alexander Pope

Amazing man, Pope; his ability to puncture pretentiousness was, erm,
nonpareil.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

My research in mtDNA shows that most of us are probably related to
that famous person. Ancient Romans had a majority of H haplogroup
mtDNA (matrilineal lines) and 47% of Europeans have H haplogroup
mtDNA. We may all be descended from the people whose names we enjoy.
Certain sequences can be obtained from the remains of certain
patricians by testing the inside of a tooth from a fossil. For
example, who has H haplogroup mtDNA with sequences 16189, 16356,
16362? That's an ancient Roman sequence, now found all over Europe,
a lot in Siena, some in Crete, and Rome, but also in Iceland and
Bashkortostan and Bulgaria. What do they have in common? All come
from a single Roman woman who lived about 753 BCE. So perhaps we're
related, if not, may reincarnated?

Fascinating studies, that molecular genealogy. Well, at least my
great great grandma came from an hour's bike ride from Rome to NY in
1880 something. Anyway, my detective character, a ransomer, lives on
in 200 BCE in Rome on the next adventure in this novel. Still
researching the facts, though on how he manages to find a certain
wealthy client who has lost his memory in an earthquake. Take a
vote. Should I make the detective an architect in demand in ancient
Rome, a physician, or a lawyer? Need to know what the most common
hair color for women is in ancient Rome--brown or auburn? Is it true
most women used henna to make their hair bright orange?

Octavia

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html/

My research in mtDNA shows that most of us are probably related to
that famous person. Ancient Romans had a majority of H haplogroup
mtDNA (matrilineal lines) and 47% of Europeans have H haplogroup
mtDNA. We may all be descended from the people whose names we enjoy.
Certain sequences can be obtained from the remains of certain
patricians by testing the inside of a tooth from a fossil. For
example, who has H haplogroup mtDNA with sequences 16189, 16356,
16362? That's an ancient Roman sequence, now found all over Europe,
a lot in Siena, some in Crete, and Rome, but also in Iceland and
Bashkortostan and Bulgaria. What do they have in common? All come
from a single Roman woman who lived about 753 BCE. So perhaps we're
related, if not, may reincarnated?

Fascinating studies, that molecular genealogy. Well, at least my
great great grandma came from an hour's bike ride from Rome to NY in
1880 something. Anyway, my detective character, a ransomer, lives on
in 200 BCE in Rome on the next adventure in this novel. Still
researching the facts, though on how he manages to find a certain
wealthy client who has lost his memory in an earthquake. Take a
vote. Should I make the detective an architect in demand in ancient
Rome, a physician, or a lawyer? Need to know what the most common
hair color for women is in ancient Rome--brown or auburn? Is it true
most women used henna to make their hair bright orange?

Octavia

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/
http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html/

Salve Octavia!
Along with our Rogatrix Renata Corva, I also would like to say "welcome!"
It's nice to see yet another female in the Forum!

Re: your book
I say make your main character a doctor.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

Salvete Quirites,

I Have seen some people making a big deal over
Patrician Status and it seems rather pointless. Status
in Antiquita during the Republic and Early Empire was
a matter of which Family you belonged to. Patricians
had a little more Status. Plebians had far more
political power.

If being a Plebian really bothers anyone, they are
free to ask one of the Patrician Paters for permission
to join his Gens anytime they wish to do so. Most of
them will approve it, so there isn't any reason anyone
can't belong to the order they desire.

Before you do, be aware that you will be exchanging
political advantages for a little status. Plebs can
vote for the Tribunes and for two additional Aediles
or run for these offices if they wish to do so. Once
the Plebs reach the point where thier percentage is
closer to the historic numbers (90% if memory serves
me) They will be able to vote on Pleblacites in the
Plebian assembly that have the force of law.
Patricians have to obey these laws even though they
are barred from voting on them.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Salvete,

This is just a friendly reminder to all Plebeian citizens that you have 30
hours left to vote for your favourite candidate for the 2 vacant positions
of Tribunus Plebis!

Voting shall end on Thursday January 30 at 18:01 Roman Time (17:01 GMT,
12:01 noon Eastern US time, 09:01 PST).

The following positions will be elected by the vote of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa:

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS - 2 seats available, 4 candidates:

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
Gaius Modius Athanasius
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gaius Geminius Germanus

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
*******************************

In a message dated 1/28/2003 3:00:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@... writes:

> I was expressing my concern as a Senator, and hoping for a quiet and
> factual explanantion of what seemed to me to be a deliberate action. If
> that was not clear to you, again you have my apology, and I shall not
> refer again to this situation with you.
>
> I am however, disappointed that you see me now as an enemy, someone to
> be ridiculed, and one to respond critically to, since I have long held
> you in high esteem.
>
> Regretfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens

Senator Marcus Minucius Audens:

With all due respect, if it was your intent to simply get a "factual
explanation" why did you not simply e-mail our Senior Tribune privately
asking for a more thorough explanation of her actions? I did see your e-mail
as a challenge to her decision.

I support the actions of Diana Moravia Aventina completely, and feel that
your comments to her were very much against the spirit of her actions. There
was no malicious intentions in her actions. She simply followed the dictates
of her conscience in cleaning up a list that had not had proper maintenance
done in a long time. There is no real reason why Patricians should be on
that list. Besides, there are several lists within Nova Roma that are closed
-- even to you. There are there Religio lists that are closed. I have not
seen you issue an e-mail to main list on the injustice of that?

In closing, I think Diana Moravia is doing a wonderful job. I think you,
esteemed Senator, overreacted to her decision. I would ask that you
re-evaluate your position.

Respectfully;

G. Modius Athanasius







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

�A gold mine threatens a great archaeological site�

A Canadian firm, Gabriel Resources, will open a gold,
silver and uranium mine which will destroy several
important archaeological sites in Romania. The choosen
place for what will be the biggest European opencast
mine is Rosia Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, on
the Apuseni mountains.

The mining activity in this area is thousands of years
old. Several mines of the II century B.C. can still be
partly travelled over.

Besides iron ores, Rosia Montana is famous in European
archaeology because of epigraphical evidence found
there. Just two year ago, a Frech-German team
discovered funeral steles and a large number of Roman
altars with votive inscriptions.

The Canadian project even provides for the complete
destruction of the actual center (which will be
re-built elsewhere...) with its monuments (eight
churches and nine graveyards) and its archaeological
strata.
Here they will settle one of the four shafts provided
for.

The Rosia Montana valley is part of the national
protected Property. An international campaign is
underway to save the ancient evidences of that area.
This campaign involves Rumanian archaeologists like
Gheorghe Lazarovici (Univesrity of Cluj), Marius Ciuta
(University of Alba Iulia), Sabin Luca (University of
Sibiu). The mobilization culminated with an appeal to
the highest national authorities by 83 academics of
the Academy of Economic Studies of the University of
Bucarest, in order to stop this operation. In fact,
according to a close examination, this project would
not even provide the populace
with relevant economic advantages.

The World Bank has already announced, through the
International Finance Corporation (IFC), that they
will not finance the project of the Gabriel Resources:
James Wohfensohn, the president of the World Bank,
intervened directly to block the loan.

The gold of this area of the Carpathians has been
mined and traded in the whole of Europe since
prehistory. Trajan's column shows the Roman occupation
of the Apuseni mountains. It was a conquest which led
to Rome so much gold that its price was depressed for
decades. Even with this depreciated price the sheer
amount of gold provided for the financing of ambitious
projects like the construction of the amphitheatre in
Verona.

The project of Gabriel Resources provides for the
forced transfer of 2,000 people: most of them are
actually employed in more than 700 farms. Production
processes using cyanide, which has already
caused a lot of ecological disasters, and which are
illegal in the rest of Europe, are proposed. Just
consider that about 196.4 million tons of cyanide
waste will be created. A real ecological predicament
is
looming, and unfortunately it would not be something
new in Romania. In fact, with the same mining process
in another mine in Baia Mare, water for 2,500,000
people was contaminated.

For further information go to
http://www.rosiamontana.org

What we ask you is to simply sign this petition to the
Government of
Romania:
http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Please do that! It's very important! We must try to do
our best to assist in saving Alburnus Maior and
avoiding this ecological catastrophe!

BENE VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs

__________________________________________________
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Citizens of Nova Roma!

Thank you for what you already did for Alburnus Maior.
A lot of Novaroman citizens signed the petition to
save this archaeological site, but WE CAN DO MORE!!!

We all are interested in Roman history and
archaeology, so it's logical that we understand the
gravity of the matter. However, the case of Rosia
Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, is a cultural
factor, as well as an ecological one. Anybody can
understand it, anybody could be willing to sign a
petition to help avoiding that Art loose a number of
masterpieces, that our history loose a number of
essential evidences, that a lot of people loose their
home and that an ecosystem loose its equilibrium!

Students of Nova Roma: most probably your University
has a mailing list for the history department. Send
there the text about this petition campaign! (previous
message)

Web Masters of Nova Roma: would it be possible to put
a link in your website to advertize this campaign?

Have this petition signed by your relatives and your
friends! Propagate the news!

http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

For further information: http://www.rosiamontana.org

Concluding, let me thank our Senatus, as I know that
the Senators will discuss the case of Alburnus Maior
in the coming sitting.

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor

P.S. I apologyze for my "intrusion" in the Religio
Romana list and in the Sodalitas Militarium list. I
think that this matter could be interesting for their
members too.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Salvete webmasters,

<Web Masters of Nova Roma: would it be possible to put
<a link in your website to advertize this campaign?
<Have this petition signed by your relatives and your
<friends! Propagate the news!
<http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Anyone linking to the Save Alburnus Maior website can use the banners that I
have made (one in English and one in French) . I have just uploaded them to
the files section of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/

I've already put the text and links to the petition in html format. Everyone
is free to copy-paste it to their websites.
http://www.gensmoravia.org/AlburnusMaior.htm (English)
http://www.gensmoravia.org/Alburnusfr.htm (French translation by S.
Apollonius Scipio)


Valete,
Diana Moravia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Praetor Deci Iuni,

> You're right on all points but this one. If you're speaking of Marcus
> Minucius Audens or Quintus Fabius Maximus, both of them were
> patricians when they held the office of Consul in 2000. However, they
> both started as plebeians.

I incorrectly thought the change in order took place during or after
their Consulship... thanks for the clarification.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/

Salve Marcus Minucius Audens,

< I have not criticized you for your effort, rather I have expressed my
disappointment at your <determination between Pleb and Pat.
G Modius used a good example: there are various Priesthood lists, all of
which are closed. My subscription request was rejected to one of them and I
was informed why. I was glad that my subscription was rejected: better that
than for me to start posting and having someone tell me that I shouldn't be
there in the first place!

My determination between Plebeian and Patrician was *solely* to follow the
rules. But having read the many posts, I see that Patricians were able to be
present for any discussions of the Plebeians, which I was not aware of. In
light of that, the list is now open. This is actually easier for the
moderators of the list-- we won't have to verify the citizen's membership by
asking for their Roman name. So I have changed the list description to
include "Patrician citizens are welcome to sit in on discussions, however,
participation is limited to Plebeian citizens". Again I have to state that
there are presently no discussions going on. But the list is indeed ready
for discussions to take place when one is necessary!

< It is to my mind, absolutely necessary that Plebs and Pats work together
< in the building of NR. Niether group can exist without the other.
Of course, I agree with you and that is what the mainlist and other NR
specialty lists are for. The Comitia Plebis Tributa list has another
function and could/will be used (when necessary) as stated in the
constitution (III.c.).

<I am however, disappointed that you see me now as an enemy, someone to
<be ridiculed, and one to respond critically to, since I have long held
<you in high esteem.

Enemies? "Enemy" is not a word that is in my vocabulary and so I had to look
it up in the dictionary ;-) I found the following : enemy: one who hates or
opposes or seeks to harm another. Certainly, that definition does not apply
to us. I am sure that we will agree on many things in the future and may now
and then disagree. Things are rarely ever black or white, but varying shades
of grey.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, greetings.

I said:

> anyone may arrive unannounced at
> the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
> Gallery whenever the House is sitting

You said:

> Really? I did not know this. Thank you for the
> information. Is this still true in the current
> terrorist atmosphere?

Yes, it is, and I haven't heard anyone suggest that it
should be changed. I imagine there would be a public
outcry if it was suggested.

I presume that security has been tightened, but I'm
glad to say that attacks on MPs are rare (beyond
people throwing rotten eggs), and even Prime
Ministers, being rather less glamourous a figure than
US Presidents for example, are not often targeted.
We've only had one PM assassinated, and no one
remembers him anyway (Spencer Percival, I think it
was). The last attempted attack on Parliament as a
whole that I know of was the one involving Mr. Fawkes.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

See http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hcio/gallery.cfm

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Senate & Plebs (WAS: Patricians Out)


In a message dated 1/28/03 12:28:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@... writes:


> No, though there is a digital television channel
> devoted to broadcasting live from the House of
> Commons. Moreover, anyone may arrive unannounced at
> the House and watch proceedings from the Strangers'
> Gallery whenever the House is sitting

Really? I did not know this. Thank you for the information. Is this still
true in the current terrorist atmosphere?

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
Fortunatus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I'm glad to find that we have more common ground on
this issue than I inferred from your last message:
sorry for my misapprehension.

I think we may safely agree to disagree on the
historical argument. I do not entirely accept or agree
with the idea that the Roman constitution was 'mixed'
or 'balanced', and that the Assemblies were the
democratic element while the Senate was the
aristocratic. This derives from Polybius, who was
importing Greek political theory into his description
of the constitution in order to make it easier for
Greek readers to understand. Moreover, it is not
altogether clear that even Polybius regarded the Roma
state as 'mixed' or 'balanced'.

The central point is this: in the ancient republic,
though it was in practice easier to overhear the
proceedings of the Assemblies than those of the
Senate, it was also the case that the Plebeian
Assembly was a legislative body, while the Senate was
not. Senatus consulta had no force of law.

Here, on the other hand, both are legislative bodies.
Senatus consulta are passed by a relatively small
group of people but are binding upon the whole
populace until overruled by edict, law or plebiscite.
The Senate also has ultimate control of changes to the
constitution, and even of the measures of a dictator,
and can pass the senatus consultum ultimum. The
constitution specifies that these three are the
highest laws in the state, overriding ordinary laws
and edicts. I'll just repeat that, because I don't
think many people really appreciate it: the Senate can
veto any measure of any assembly, magistrate or
dictator, and can pass senatus consula ultima creating
positive legislation which overrules everyone but a
dictator.

Yes, I know that the Senate would only do these things
in emergencies, and that there are constitutional
provisions preventing the abuse of these powers. But
the consitutional provisions can themselves be
overruled by the Senate, and the argument that abuse
does not occur is not a proof that it cannot.

I don't want this discussion to turn into a debate
about whether it's good or bad for the Senate to have
these powers. I'm happy to have that debate, and I
think it should be had, but anyone wanting to have it
please start a new thread. The point is this: while
our Senate has these vast and overriding powers that
the ancient Senate never had, then the argument that
the Senate should not be open because it wasn't open
historically will not wash. The accountability and
transparency of a body should be proportional to its
powers. The powers are greater than they were
historically, so the transparency should be greater;
or, the powers should be lessened to correspond with
the transparency.

If the Senate had only its historical powers, then I
would be ready to engage with the historical argument
about its openness. Otherwise, however, history is
beside the point.

Cordus

P.S. If anyone is getting bored with this discussion,
I'm content to transfer it across to the Laws list if
anyone asks.

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

werd.

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR Demographics, was:(Plebs really the majority?)


On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:36:51PM -0600, Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote:

> okey dokey

The world will be beating a path to your door anytime now; such lucidity
and clarity of expression will not go unrecognized for long.

<http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5011/acronyms.html#GOAT>


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Occam's Razor

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Peregrinator the Terminator:

As a matter of fact, we do know what it looked like!

It was some kind of building, filled with dry old men, who thought they were better than everyone else.

Basilicatus


heh.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma









----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gaius Basilicatus Agricola" <jlasalle@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3-D Roma
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:40:08 -0600

http://www.cvrlab.org/

------------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting. Do we know how the Senate looked like?

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator.





_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVE OPTIMA DIANA MORAVIA AVENTINA TRIBVNE PLEBIS

> Anyone linking to the Save Alburnus Maior website can use the

banners that I

> have made (one in English and one in French) . I have just uploaded

them to

> the files section of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-

Roma/files/

>
> I've already put the text and links to the petition in html format.

Everyone

> is free to copy-paste it to their websites.
> http://www.gensmoravia.org/AlburnusMaior.htm (English)
> http://www.gensmoravia.org/Alburnusfr.htm (French translation by S.
> Apollonius Scipio)

Thank you for your great help, my friend! ;-)

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor

Octavia--Okay, you've got me fascinated, now. I'm
very interested (in a layman's way) in DNA testing,
resequencing, and reverse DNA testing with
mitochondrial DNA, both on a forensic and on an
archaeological level.

I took the best biology course I ever had last spring,
and I miss it so much! Reading your message was a
pleasant reminder of it.

My personal preference is for the detective to be a
physician--probably Greek-trained. But I'm biased
that way. To me, medicine is far more fascinating
than the law. (g)

I very much look forward to reading your books!

---
Renata Corva

=====
Chantal
http://www.theranweyr.org

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."

Salvete iterum Aule Apolloni omnesque

> I think we may safely agree to disagree on the
> historical argument. I do not entirely accept or agree
> with the idea that the Roman constitution was 'mixed'
> or 'balanced', and that the Assemblies were the
> democratic element while the Senate was the
> aristocratic. This derives from Polybius, who was
> importing Greek political theory into his description
> of the constitution in order to make it easier for
> Greek readers to understand. Moreover, it is not
> altogether clear that even Polybius regarded the Roma
> state as 'mixed' or 'balanced'.

I certainly agree that the lines between the (theoretically) balanced elements
of the ancient Roman constitution were quite blurry, and that Polybius'
monarchic-aristocratic-democratic division is primarily a tool of convenience
which should be taken cum grano salis. I also agree that, most likely, very
few Romans would have thought of their government in Polybius' terms. However,
I do think that the Concilium Plebis was created and run in a generally
democratic spirit, while the Senate was maintained in a decidedly aristocratic
spirit.

In other words, while we may have to agree to disagree, I can see your side of
the fence from where I am.

And now, on to the historicity of our Senate:

> ...it was also the case that the Plebeian
> Assembly was a legislative body, while the Senate was
> not. Senatus consulta had no force of law.
>
> Here, on the other hand, both are legislative bodies.

This is a subject which has troubled me ever since I became active in Nova
Roma's government. I've often asked how binding Nova Roma's senatusconsulta
are upon the populace. The answers I've received have generally depended upon
whom I asked.

In any case, senatusconsulta in antiquity did have the force of law. There's
evidence to suggest that, in the earliest days of the Republic, no law could be
passed without a senatusconsultum approving of it. More explicitly, it was a
senatusconsultum that resulted in the destruction of the cult of Bacchus in 186
BCE. The record shows that the Senate handled matters of religion, police,
administration, provincial affairs, and foreign relations. Many
senatusconsulta passed in the Republican period (Augustus effectively replaced
the comitia with senatusconsulta) were what would be called laws today.

Our constitution is silent upon the exact limits of senatusconsulta. It
explicitly gives the Senate control over the treasury and taxation, the ability
to refuse or accept a constitutional amendment requested by the comitia, the
authority to establish provinciae and governors, and the ability to set its own
internal regulations. Beyond that, it can issue senatusconsula--defined
as "advice of the Senate"--on any subject. However, nowhere does it explicitly
state how binding such advice is. In the absence of direction, it therefore
falls to the magistrates to determine on a case by case basis which consulta
they will enforce and which they will ignore.

> The Senate also has ultimate control of changes to the
> constitution, and even of the measures of a dictator,
> and can pass the senatus consultum ultimum. The
> constitution specifies that these three are the
> highest laws in the state, overriding ordinary laws
> and edicts. I'll just repeat that, because I don't
> think many people really appreciate it: the Senate can
> veto any measure of any assembly, magistrate or
> dictator, and can pass senatus consula ultima creating
> positive legislation which overrules everyone but a
> dictator.

I don't think you said quite what you intended to say there. The Senate can't
directly "veto any measure of any assembly". Only by creating a dictator,
passing a Senatus Consultum Ultimum, or refusing to enact a constitutional
amendment can the Senate interfere with the legislative powers of the comitia.
Two of those three powers are historical, though the Senatus Consultum Ultimum
belongs to the later days of the Republic. And, those two are subject to the
tribuni plebis' veto before the fact.

> The point is this: while
> our Senate has these vast and overriding powers that
> the ancient Senate never had, then the argument that
> the Senate should not be open because it wasn't open
> historically will not wash.

You've only mentioned two powers that the ancient Senate didn't have. The
first is the ability to approve or deny the actions of a dictator, a power
which was included in an effort to protect the state from a latter-day Sulla or
Caesar. The second is the ability to deny constitutional amendments, which is
unhistorical primarily because the very existence of the constitution is
unhistorical. However, to suggest that the ancient Senate didn't have "vast
and overriding powers" is, according to the evidence I've seen, an error.

> The accountability and
> transparency of a body should be proportional to its
> powers. The powers are greater than they were
> historically, so the transparency should be greater;
> or, the powers should be lessened to correspond with
> the transparency.

While I strongly disagree that the Senate's powers are substantially greater
than they were in antiquity, I agree with your sentiments regarding
transparency. As I said before, it is up to the tribuni plebis to determine
how much of the Senate's business to share on a case-by-case basis. They are,
after all, the primary defenders of the populace against the rest of the
government. If you want to know more about what the Senate is doing, lobby the
tribuni. It is your right and duty as a civis to examine your government and
help to keep those working in it honest.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
Fortunatus, greetings.

I think we have arraived, more or less, at a clear
understanding of our agreements and disagreements. I
think you're quite correct to be troubled by the
question of the legal force of senatus consulta, and
it reassures me that you are.

To my mind the issue is quite clear. The relevant
section of the constitution says:

"Legal precedence. This Constitution shall be the
highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from
edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It
shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by
edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus
consultum ultima, laws properly voted and passed by
one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium
pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurium,
Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of
descending authority as described in section IV of
this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower
authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher
authority shall take precedence. Should a law passed
by one comitia contradict one passed by another or the
same comitia without explicitly superceding that law,
the most recent law shall take precedence."

It seems to me quite unarguably to imply that senatus
consulta have legal force, or else they would not be
in the list. In fact I see that I have misremembered
the wording - they actually have more force than
magisterial edicts, and it is well-established by
precedent that those are binding!

You have cited a number of historical cases to suggest
that senatus consulta were historically binding. I
think this must in the end come down to one's view of
the evidence. Where you see these cases (the
Bacchanalian conspiracy in particular) as
demonstrating the legitimate powers of the Senate, I
would argue that they were cases of the Senate
illegally exceeding its powers. Likewise, in my strong
view the senatus consultum ultimum was utterly
illegal, and should be firmly rejected not least
because it was first invented in order to sanction the
illegal, unjustified and sacrilegious killing of a
tribune.

I do accept that in many less controversial cases
senatus consulta were accepted and treated as if they
were laws, but in my view these cases are probably
those in which our sources have omitted to mention the
occurrence of what conventionally followed a senatus
consultum: a magistrate would usually transcribe it
straight into an edict, which would then have force.

Anyway, this has now moved away from the substantive
issue of Senate transparency, on which we agree by and
large, and which I hope to see the Tribunes address
after the next session. I shall put a petition to them
in the proper manner if they do not, as you suggest.

Thanks for your enjoyable and well-reasoned discourse.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From : “=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=“ <cordus@...>

>
>I presume that security has been tightened, but I'm
>glad to say that attacks on MPs are rare (beyond
>people throwing rotten eggs), and even Prime
>Ministers, being rather less glamourous a figure than
>US Presidents for example, are not often targeted.
>

Terrorist security isn't exactly new for Westminster is it, especially with two of them entitled to sit in the joint. I think a reasonably solid security check goes back to about the time they put gates across Downing Street, some time in the 80s - when there was probably more chance of Prime Minesterial assassination that for the previous 100 years!

V. Ambrosius Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mistress Aventina;

My thanks for your response and your apparent understandng of my purpose
in the making of my original post on this matter.

Perhaps, as you say, the term enemy was a little harsh. I was not at my
best when I wrote that message since I haven't been sleeping all that
well. It's probably my own fault sice I do love to read until the wee
hours of the morning, and the following day is somewhat "blurry."

You have my apology for my excess in that item, it was a poor choice at
best.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

Salvete omnes--If you are a PLEBEIAN who has not yet
cast your vote for Tribunus Plebis, this is an
invitation for you to please do so at the Nova Roma
website! Tim is a'running out. :) Voting ends
January 30 at 1800 hours Roman Time. That's 1200
hours EST in the States.

NR Website:
http://www.novaroma.org/main.html

Renata Corva Cantrix
Rogatrix

In a message dated 1/29/03 5:58:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cordus@... writes:

> I think we may safely agree to disagree on the
> historical argument. I do not entirely accept or agree
> with the idea that the Roman constitution was 'mixed'
> or 'balanced', and that the Assemblies were the
> democratic element while the Senate was the
> aristocratic. This derives from Polybius, who was
> importing Greek political theory into his description
> of the constitution in order to make it easier for
> Greek readers to understand. Moreover, it is not
> altogether clear that even Polybius regarded the Roma
> state as 'mixed' or 'balanced'.

If you read the Greek and not the translation you will find that Polybios
felt the Roman government was far superior to either the Democracies of the
Polis or the Monarchy of the Successors. He also correctly predicts that the
balance will change in the future, which would lead to the Dynamists. He
accurately predicts the downfall of the Republic, and the rise of the
Principate although he did not use those terms.

>
> The central point is this: in the ancient republic,
> though it was in practice easier to overhear the
> proceedings of the Assemblies than those of the
> Senate, it was also the case that the Plebeian
> Assembly was a legislative body, while the Senate was
> not. Senatus consulta had no force of law.
>

Yet the people accept them as binding in the early and middle republic. But
consider,
they were stuck with their Senate, while here in NR the people are not. So
it is hard for anything to be binding here. It can be ignored, and except
for peer pressure, un enforceable.

> Here, on the other hand, both are legislative bodies.
> Senatus consulta are passed by a relatively small
> group of people but are binding upon the whole
> populace until overruled by edict, law or plebiscite.
> The Senate also has ultimate control of changes to the
> constitution, and even of the measures of a dictator,
> and can pass the senatus consultum ultimum. The
> constitution specifies that these three are the
> highest laws in the state, overriding ordinary laws
> and edicts. I'll just repeat that, because I don't
> think many people really appreciate it: the Senate can
> veto any measure of any assembly, magistrate or
> dictator, and can pass senatus consula ultima creating
> positive legislation which overrules everyone but a
> dictator.
>

As they could in antiquity. However NR is a VOLUNTARY organization.
You are here because you want to be. I wish we could all swear an oath
to listen to the Senate, magistrates, etc. when one first joins, so there
could
be some control over actions here. Excellent case in point, we should have
had
a census last year. We PASSED a lex to that effect. What has been done so
far? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.

> Yes, I know that the Senate would only do these things
> in emergencies, and that there are constitutional
> provisions preventing the abuse of these powers. But
> the constitutional provisions can themselves be
> overruled by the Senate, and the argument that abuse
> does not occur is not a proof that it cannot.
>

Apollonius you remind me of a student I once had. He too always saw
the cup as half empty.
If the Senate became abusive, there would be 17 old men and
one woman sitting around talking about the glory days of
Nova Roma.
Everybody else would be long gone to other endeavors.

> I don't want this discussion to turn into a debate
> about whether it's good or bad for the Senate to have
> these powers. I'm happy to have that debate, and I
> think it should be had, but anyone wanting to have it
> please start a new thread. The point is this: while
> our Senate has these vast and overriding powers that
> the ancient Senate never had,
>

What are you talking about? The old had the power to modify the
constitution, levy
taxes, and control Rome's religio and politics. And if the people let them,
they did. Infact Livius makes it very clear the Senate ran things in the
early Republic. As the Plebeians demanded more control the Senate's iron
control slipped. But in time of war it was very powerful, and continued to
be so up until the post Sullian period.

> If the Senate had only its historical powers, then I
> would be ready to engage with the historical argument
> about its openness. Otherwise, however, history is
> beside the point.
>

Vedius never gave the Senate late Republic sensibilities. He instead went
for a more early republic power, since Nova Roma is a fledging entity, and we
need a sting senate. Second since for our corporate status the Senate is the
BoD of Nova Roma, those powers must be interchangeable as well.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Omnes,

I know its not very often I come and ask for a prayer request...but today I feel I must ask. Yesterday Earthlink announced that they are laying off 25% of their staff, that equals about 1300 jobs. I know about 80 people who are going to lose their jobs during this corporate restructuring.

The individuals who are being terminated are in E-support, Technical Support and Customer Service.

Our centers in Dallas, Seattle, and Sacramento are closing. One of the three buildings in Pasadena (this is where I work) are being closed as well.

Vale,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Spurius Postumius Tubertus

I have tried to send you two e-mails in response to your request but they can back not delivered


Vale

Tiberius



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Diana! I will use them!
Arnamentia

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:25:49 +0100
From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@...>
Subject: Web Banners & html text for Save Alburnus
Maior !

Salvete webmasters,

<Web Masters of Nova Roma: would it be possible to put
<a link in your website to advertize this campaign?
<Have this petition signed by your relatives and your
<friends! Propagate the news!
<http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html

Anyone linking to the Save Alburnus Maior website can
use the banners
that I
have made (one in English and one in French) . I have
just uploaded
them to
the files section of the
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/

I've already put the text and links to the petition in
html format.
Everyone
is free to copy-paste it to their websites.
http://www.gensmoravia.org/AlburnusMaior.htm
(English)
http://www.gensmoravia.org/Alburnusfr.htm (French
translation by S.
Apollonius Scipio)


Valete,
Diana Moravia


=====
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.gensmoravia.org

__________________________________________________
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Salve, consul, Salve Aule Apoloni

> I certainly agree that the lines between the (theoretically)

balanced elements

> of the ancient Roman constitution were quite blurry, and that

Polybius'

> monarchic-aristocratic-democratic division is primarily a tool of

convenience

> which should be taken cum grano salis. I also agree that, most

likely, very

> few Romans would have thought of their government in Polybius'

terms. However,

> I do think that the Concilium Plebis was created and run in a

generally

> democratic spirit, while the Senate was maintained in a decidedly

aristocratic

> spirit.

I cannot resist that subject!

According to Machiavelli (Discourse about the books of Titus Livius),
the success of the roman government was that it mixed the three
perfect forms of government of Aristoteles and Polibius: Monarch,
Aristocracy and Democracy, having bodies modelled as that governments
forms gathering its advantages, the consulship, the Senate and the
Comitia Populis.

This form was not thought, but developed on the centuries of Republic.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile

Master G. Modius Athanasius;

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. Perhaps when you are
a Senator, you will see things in a slightly different light.

In answer to your questions:

--I sent the request publicly and not pivately because I wised to see if
others felt the same way as I. Apparently that question in my mind was
answered by numerous replies similar to my own as the Senior Tribune has
already mentioned on this list. She has changed her mind and revised
the list, so that all in Nova Roma will have an idea about what is being
decided and discussed. Apparently you have disregarded my comments
relating to ideas and working together;

--Yes, there are some relifious lists in Nova Roma which are closed to
me. I am not sure what you imply by the term "----even to you," but I
pass that by in explaining that while I respect the Religio Romana, I am
not of the Religio. Since I trust the Pontifex Maximus Julianus as a
colleague and as the spokesman for the Religio in Nova Roma, any
political or administrative ideas, changes or comments in those areas
from the College of Pontiffs I leave in his capable hands.

--I too support the Senior Tribune in her actions to date. She has
indicated a strong realization in her activiries with the list in
question and I am pleased to see those changes. I have not challenged
her authority but simply asked a question, apparently one which others
in Nova Roma also asked.

--I do not agree with you in regard to the comment that Patricians have
no busness on the Plebian List. Any ideas put forth by a Plebian
Assembly, and any laws resulting therefrom, must be obeyed by Patricians
and Plebians alike. Therefore I see no problem in having Patricians
working with Plebians to hammer out ideas, and activities which are the
best for all citizens of Nova Roma. My anchestor and I com from Plebian
stock and I have not forgotten that, as you seem to believe. My present
Patrcian standing is one of honor and recognition, and has no part in
attempting to bridle or determine for any Plebian his / her ideas, but
rather to work with them. This is my goal irrespective of what you
might think of my efforts.

--You are apparently new to Nova Roma. It was in my mind that there
possibly may be on or two items that have been previously discussed
during my tenure as Magistrate and active Nova Roma Citizen, and Senator
that perhaps has been discussed in the previous years of Nova Roma's
existance, that might be of interest to the newerr Plebians and
Patricians in Nova Roma. I will continue to think along those lines as
long as thre is significant support for those ideas, as I have seen in
this case.

--I have no desire to drive a wedge between th two classes. Since it
serves no purpose and inhibits the actions of working together to build
a stronger micronation. One sure way to creating a separate opposing
class in actual practice, is to begin to isolate the two from one
another. I view Patrician Status as a great honor, and to my knowledge
so do all those in the Gens Minucia. It is NOT, to my mind, a status
standing above anyone, it is NOT a title allowing anything but an honor
awarded, and it should NOT in any way inhbit the development of Nova
Roma. I have said such many times in many ways, and I shall continue to
say it to the new citizens of Nva Roma as tey are accepted here. I have
argued strongly in the Senate and the Main List, against anyone who
feels that Patrician Status in NR is a license to block or inhibit
Plebian actions, and I shall also continue to unertake that
responsibility.

Such is my reply to your message, and to anyone else who believes that I
have overstepped my responsibility.

Respectfully;

Marcus Mincius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Ursus in tabernam introit et cereversiam imperavit. Tabernarius ex taberna ad dominum curcurrum dicens, "O, domine! domine! Ursus in taberna est et cerevesiam desiderat!" Dominus tabernario respondit, "Stulte, utrum cerevisiam an mala vendimus in taberna? Urso cerevisiam venders potes et, quia ursi stulti sunt, dicere potes etiam: 'Pretium sestertium.'"

Tabernarius rediit in taberna et ursum dedit cerevisiam dicens, "Pretium sestertium." Ursus non respondit, sed cerevisiam recipit. Dixit tabernarius, fabulans in modo tabernariorium, "Nonne ursi rarae aves in tabernia?" "Vero," repondit ursus, "rari sumus certe propter cerevisia caritatem immmoderatam."

l
l
V




















A bear went into a bar and orders a beer. The barkeep runs from the bar to his employer saying, "Boss! Boss! There's a bear in the bar and he wants a beer!" The owner answers him, "Idiot, do we sell beer, or do we sell apples in the bar? You can sell the bear a beer, and because bears are stupid animals you can tell him the price is a sestertium."

The bartender went back in the bar and gave the bear a beer saying, " The price is a sestertium." The bear didn't answer, but took the beer. The bartender, speaking in the way bartenders do, said, "Bears are rare birds in a bar, huh?" "True!," said the bear, "we are rare, doubtlessly because of the outrageous price of the beer."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Senator Sulla Felix;

While I am sorry to hear of the loss of so many jobs in th e subject
organization, Iguess that I am not clear on what particular target you
ask for in the request for prayers. If you yourself are losing your
job, then you have my sympath and my prayers, I have been in that
situation once in my life and it is no fun at all!!!!!!

If the target are those others who are being laid off, then they have my
condolences as well, however they are not known to me, and so I will
make a general prayer for thier quick return to another job or vocation.

If your request is for a prayer to the reduction of Eathlink itself,
which I don't suppose that you would ask for, perhaps a better Customer
Service Program would be more in order. My personal experience with
Earthlink has been such that I would not again involve myself with them,
and several of my local friends agree with me.

So, you have my prayers for yourself, and for those who have been laid
off, and my hoes for a quick recovery and new job opportunities.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, greetings.

I must offer my apologies: it seems I have once again
failed to make myself sufficiently clear, and the
result is that you have mistaken my argument for a
different one.

I have not previously been discussing the question of
whether the Senate's powers in Nova Roma are
excessive. I suggested in my last message that anyone
who did want to engage with this important question do
so under a different subject-line; as you have not
changed the subject-line, I presume you are still
responding to my points about the relationship between
transparency and power.

You argue that the powers our Senate holds are
historical. I disagree. As I have said before,
however, this is a matter of historical interpretation
for which evidence can be adduced on both sides. I am
content to leave the argument where it is.

You then produce an argument which puzzles me. I'll
give a couple of quotations and then see if I can
summarize it correctly.

> However NR is a VOLUNTARY organization. You are here
> because you want to be. I wish we could all swear
> an oath to listen to the Senate, magistrates, etc.
> when one first joins, so there could be some control
> over actions here. Excellent case in point, we
> should have had a census last year. We PASSED a lex
> to that effect. What has been done so far?
> Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.

...

> If the Senate became abusive, there would be 17 old
> men and one woman sitting around talking about the
> glory days of Nova Roma. Everybody else would be
> long gone to other endeavors.

Your argument seems (correct me if I'm wrong) to be
that it doesn't matter whether the Senate's powers are
too great or not, because if they were and if the
Senate abused them, all the citizens would leave.

This seems to me a very strange way to justify the
current state of affairs. Do you mean that we should
be indifferent to the potential departure of all but
18 (the website says 20, but I am not a Senator so I
shall trust your figures) citizens? Surely it is
desirable that such a situation not occur in the first
place, and therefore that the conditions which you
suggest might create it also not occur? If the Senate
could legally bring about a state of affairs which
would cause the departure of the entire non-Senatorial
population, as in your hypothetical scenario, you seem
to be saying 'that would be okay, because everyone
would just leave', whereas I would tend to say 'that
would be bad, because everyone would just leave'.

If what you mean is that the Senate would never do it
because they wouldn't want everyone to leave, well,
perhaps we disagree, but I tend to think that laws and
constitutions are there to stop people and groups
having powers they shouldn't use. I do not take the
view that a constitution can give a body large powers
and then rely on that body not to use them - if it
does this, why not simply not give it the powers in
the first place?

And a final aspect of your case which confuses me is
this: I was under the impression that Nova Roma
intends at some stage in the future to be an
independent nation-state. If this aim were achieved,
your argument would no longer apply. Do you suggest
that it's fine for the Senate to be able to do things
now which it shouldn't be allowed to do later? I
struggle to understand the reasoning behind this.

And incidentally, I don't see how your example of the
census law is relevant. It was a law enacted by the
Tribal Assembly, and it was therefore the authority of
the People, and not the Senate, which was defied by
the failure to obey the law.

With respect, I must point out that you have twice
responded to messages in which I put forward the
argument that the extensive and overriding powers of
the Senate demand a proportional measure of
transparency. In neither of your responses have you,
as far as I can see, attempted to discuss the central
point of that argument, which is the relationship
between the powers and the transparency. In your first
message you discussed the need for the Senate to be
closed to spectators, but did not address the issue of
its powers. In your second message you defended the
powers of the Senate but did not say anything about
whether it should or should not be proportionally
transparent. So much as I enjoy discussing these
issues with you, and much as I agree they are
important and worthy of discussion, I'm afraid that
unless your next reply attempts to answer the central
point of my argument I shall find little motivation to
continue this non-debate.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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EDICTUM I FROM THE PLEBEAIN AEDILSHIP

DE SCRIBA DESIGNATIONE



The Plebeians Aediles, L. Arminius Faustus and M. Scribonius Curius Britannicus, in accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, issue together on full agreement, this edictum nominating the following citizens as their scriba:


M. Arminius Maior: Scriba Ludorum Senior
G. Galerius Peregrinator: Scriba Historicus
T. Arminius Genialis: Scriba Ludorum Retiarius (webmaster)

P. Tarquitius Rufus: Scriba Maximus



M. Arminius Maior, G Galerius Peregrinator, T. Arminius Genialis are assigned to L. Arminius while P. Tarquitius Rufus to M. Scribonius.







Datum a.d. III Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c



L. Arminius Faustus

M. Scribonius Curio Britannicus

Plebeian Aediles



---------------------------------
Busca Yahoo!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lucius Minicius Laietanus Senato S.P.D.

Ex officio propraetoris Hispaniae

Salvete Patres et Conscripti.

The following intends to be a brief report on the present status of the
province, as well as a formal communication to the Senate of my resign as
Propraetor, once accomplished a year of my appointment and according with
my commitment with the people and the internal regulations of Provincia
Hispania concerning to the annual renewal of all provincial offices and
magistrates.

On this matter, I would like to ask you to consider the candidature of
Caius Iulius Barcinus Circonius as my successor. He is in my opinion
qualified enough to afford this honour with responsibility and his
candidature has been supported by a wide majority of the citizens of
Hispania. He will submit it to you in the following days.

Hispania currently registers 90 citizens, 75% of whom appear as Assidui in
the Album Civium of Novaroma. The provincial mailing list has at the
moment 70 members, mainly citizens of Hispania, with a monthly average of
about 470 messages crossed. The administration of the province is under the
responsibility of the provincial Consilium, formed by the Propraetor, two
Legati and seven Scribae. The Curia Hispanica is the consultative body in
the heart of which the proposals of the citizens concerning the provincial
organisation are debated; the Curia is currently made up of 10
elected Decuriones, the two Legati and the Propraetor, and it is chaired
by the Princeps Curiae.

In the last year we have made an important effort to set the basis of our
provincial organisation promoting the participation in a common
project. Among the main goals it is well worth mentioning our two
provincial meetings in July and December, our regular local meetings, the
starting of the Legio Hispania project, the starting of our legal
registration as a non profit cultural association, the new monthly
provincial bulletin "Acta Diurna", the development of our weekly
provincial ludi, the constant improvements of our provincial web site or
our first annual comitia provincialia to choose the elected members of the
Curia and to decide the new candidate to the provincial propraetorship to
be submitted to the Senate.

We still have fortunately many other projects to develop and I think you
can be confident that the new Provincial Propraetor working together with
the Consilium and the local Curia will carry them on successfully.

My intention is of course to continue involved with Novaroma and specially
with our provincial development. I'll be at your disposal for any further
information you may require.

Thank-you all for your confidence and your support.

Lucius Minicius Laietanus
Propraetor Hispaniae

Salvete,

There will be two Provincial events scheduled for February 2003. Both
are gallery talks at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts (www.mfa.org):

Title: GALLERY TALK - Portraits of the Ancient World
Date: Sunday, February 9, 2003
Time: 2 p.m.
Calendar: Talks, Courses, and Lectures
By: Heather Cotter
Meet at the Sharf Information Center.

Title: GALLERY TALK - Celebrating "Lupercalia," the ancient precursor of
Valentine's Day
Date: Sunday, February 16, 2003
Time: 2 p.m.
Calendar: Talks, Courses, and Lectures
By: Henry Augustine Tate
Meet at the Sharf Information Center.

I would like to meet at the Sharf Information Center inside the MFA at
1:00pm for both events. This will give everyone time to get organized
and acquainted prior to the start of the tour. Admission is $15.00 for
adults, $13.00 for seniors and college students, and youths (7-17)
admitted free (on Sundays). One ticket is good for 2 visits within 30
days, so both events are covered. If you need directions, they are
available at: http://www.mfa.org/visit/directions.htm After the gallery
talk we can always check out other portions of the Museum or grab
something to eat. If you are interested in attending either event,
please R.S.V.P. on list - I'll be at both.

Thanks, and I hope to see you all there!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex Officio Praetorium

EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE

The praetores of Nova Roma hereby define the guidelines for
appropriate usage of Nova Roma's public communication forum, currently
located at:
Nova_Roma@yahoogroups.com

These guidelines are based on the guidelines previously issued by
our predecessors (Pompeia Cornelia and Patricia Cassia). As praetores
of Nova Roma, though, we keep the right to change these guidelines in
the future.

I. The Nova Roma forum (herein referred to as 'the list') is set up
so that replies will automatically be sent to the entire list. Please
keep this in mind when you are replying. You are not issuing a
private email. If your reply is intended for only one member, and has
no benefit to the rest of the list subscribers, consider sending it
privately.

II. Posts that merely voice agreement with a previous post without
expanding on an issue in any way are discouraged.

III. Please trim your posts. When replying to a thread, snip
unnecessary sections of the original post for brevity, and indicate
where you have done so by printing <snipped> at the appropriate space.
Correct usage of snipping prevents large posts that can quickly fill
subscribers mailboxes

IV. If you feel you must dispute or criticize another person's post,
consider doing so in private.
Sometimes a person makes a genuine mistake, and your gentle correction
via private email means much more to them than potentially
embarrassing them in the forum over what is an innocent error. We know
that during political debates, private exchanges are impractical.
Please use discretion in this area.

V. It is entirely appropriate to disagree publicly with another's
stated views or another's actions as they report such, or with the
actions of Nova Roma's Magistrates, Senate or otherwise appointed
officials.
Nova Roma is an organization of individuals from a wide variety of
nations, religions, cultural backgrounds and political viewpoints, and
it is only reasonable that our views should differ.

Please consider the following when expressing disagreement of opposing
viewpoints:

* Express respect for the person and the entitlement to his opinion,
and faith in his or her good intentions.

* Point out any themes in which you do not agree.

* If in the criticism of a person's actions, perhaps in the capacity
of a magistrate or senator, point out specifically which actions you
are referring to. Quote the message number of the post in
which you base your account and opinions. This makes things more
objective and often helpful to the person in question, as to what,
specifically, you are referring to, and your issues with same.

* In an academic debate, endeavor to offer references to back up your
assertions.

* At all times maintain politeness in the expression of your opinion
and endeavour to respect the rights and opinions of others.

Inappropriate behaviour includes:

the use of profane language; misrepresentation of the truth for the
purpose of making another person look foolish; calling others names;
criticizing a poster's personal character as opposed to criticizing his
ideas; making derrogatory, belittling, subjective statements about the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome (quoting from a myth does not apply) or
belittling deities of other religions for entertainment. Further, in
the interests of those under 18, sexual references must be strictly
within the context of an historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to
be made in private.

The arbitrary advertisment of goods and services (SPAM) is not
permitted on the Nova Roma mainlist, unless the advertiser is a member
of Nova Roma's marketplace, the Macellum. Macellum merchants are
welcome to advertise from time to time in a low-key fashion. This
entails a signature line/file, a one-time announcement of initial
affiliation with the Macellum, advertising in response to a post of
inquiry made in the forum, or an ad once every three months or so
advertising your presence in the Macellum.

VI. If you feel that a post is inappropriate in any way, consider
mailing the individual concerned privately, explaining your rationale
for grievance and asking for clarification"

If you would like to talk to us confidentially about a particular
post, please contact us at praetors@... .

VII: During the time leading up to elections (held each November and
occasionally at other times if offices become vacant) this list is one
of the forums where candidates express their views and present their
qualifications to the populace. All of the strictures governing
appropriate behaviour mentioned hereto, shall remain in place and
apply to all candidates and their supporters.

VIII: Please do not give out personal information (i.e., address or
phone number) to the list. While it would be pleasant to believe we
are all good-hearted and sane, we are not; you cannot trust in that.

IX: Due to the influxes of SPAM and past incidents of posts from
those who wish nothing but to cause disruption and insult to the list,
or particular subscribers of the list, to wit, TROLLS, it has become
necessary to place all new list members on Moderated Status, just
until we are satisfied that such persons are indeed here to celebrate
aspects of Roma Antiquita and Nova Roma, as opposed to being here for
unjustifiable reasons. This is unfortunate, but it has proved
necessary.

X: Language Policies

The forum of Roma Antiquita was a large venue, with people of
different languages conversing, a few in this corner, a few in that
corner.
Rome was a very mulicultured place in her glory. Mind you official
information was in Latin, and in some cases Greek, but people were
free to speak informally as they wished in the language of their
choice.
Our constitution mandates freedom of communication provided it is not
dangerous or disruptive.

Currently, the praetores can understand Latin, Spanish, French,
Italian and Portuguese, so messages in those languages are most
welcome. For other languages, help can be obtained from the decuria of
interpreters of Nova Roma.

Thanks to the decuria of interpreters and to several magistrates or
legates who are willing to assist with list moderation, 'informal'
communication in the forum is open to most main languages. Feel free
to post in English, Latin, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Fench, German,
Russian, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish or any Slavik language. The
Praetors have many to thank for efforts in this regard.

***Exception: This does not contravene the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
Publicus
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lege/index/html
which stipulates, though comitial mandate, that any offical government
legislation or priestly decrees must be issued in English or Latin
where applicable, so they can be translated verbatim into other
languages to be more easily understood by the entirety of the
populace.

XI. Topics of Discussion

The main focus of this list is Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua. However,
as members of a diverse international community we all have lives and
interests outside of Nova Roma. It is perfectly acceptable to discuss
non-Roman topics here, though keep in mind that not everyone may
share your interest in these topics.

XII: The Praetors have the imperium to govern the list, but prefer to
encourage positive interaction as opposed to punishing negative
behaviour. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these
guidelines aforementioned, the following escalated courses of
action shall be taken:

1.- A private memo from the Praetors' office or a Scribal designate,
stating the incident of infarction, and a reminder to review the
guidelines. Often people who are new to the list are not intentionally
trying to upset anybody.

2.- Another private memo as above.

3.- Moderated status (the poster may post but all posts
they issue are first reviewed by the Praetors or their designate).
The length of moderation shall be determined by the number of offences
in the past, the severity of the violation, and the intent to violate.
No citizen shall be kept in moderate status for more than 2 (two)
months
without a firm sentence issued by a legal court as described by the
Lex Salicia Iudiciaria:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

(For example: Nobody is going to be placed on moderated status for an
extended time for failure to trim posts or for saying 'me too')

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR·ET·SENATOR
TRIVMVIR·ACADEMIAE
LICTOR·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Móviles
Personaliza tu móvil con tu logo y melodía favorito
en http://moviles.yahoo.es

Salve.

Just to announce I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma. My name is
Octavia Fabia Scriba. I write original stories and fictional diaries
or audio plays (anyone in Nova Roma can perform free anytime)set in
ancient Rome and post them on my ancient Roman literature Web site
at http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/ which is under
construction. I'm still revising my one-act play, excellent for
audio set in 200 BCE. The rest of my postings on my Web site will be
short stories about ordinary life in rome in the 200 BCE to 170 BCE
era, give or take a few years as I research my historical
happenings/facts.

Is anyone familiar with the opera/ballet titled Elisa, Queen of
Carthage based on the Roman Africanus, who after conquoring Hannibal
and finishing up in Carthage attracts the attention of the new
Queen? The dance/ballet/opera was performed a few years ago by a
Beirut (Phoenecian)dance company traveling to various nations to
perform "Elisa." Would anyone know what the Roman influence was on
Armenia in 200 BCE? I'm writing a story based on the folkloric
Armenian legend of Prince Vatchakan and a girl named Anahid
(Armenian history), but moving the setting to Rome in 200 BCE.

The proverb the story that the story is based on is: the tweechig
(Armenian/Ururatian Queen) will marry the Roman senator if he learns
an artisan trade, like carpentry or metalworking besides his
senatorial, professonal/legal status in Rome. In any case. I'm just
introducing myself. I'm Octavia, and I've written 30 books an am
focusing on researching and writing one authentic-detail of history-
detective novel called The Ransomer, based in Rome 200 BCE.

So hello, everyone. I live in California and my favorite ancestor
came to the US from the hill country suburbs an hour from Rome 120
years ago. You can check out my other Web sites also.

I just finished reading Stephen Saylor's novel, Arms of Nemisis ab
out Marcus Licnius Crassus, whom he calls, "one of history's biggest
losers." Saylor says this was because at his height of power and
prestige as the "richest man in Rome," he got himself decapitated in
53BCE in a campaign against the Parthians. He also, in the novel,
burned down a home because he wanted to buy the house next to it,
then persuaded the owner to sell cheap, and after getting the
contract or money, proceded to have his private fire brigade
extinguish the flames. Now that's the kind of writing that's based
on detailed historical research!

The author, (who writes in the first person) also gives a good list
of bographies of the Romans he writes about in his novels.
Wonderful. It helps novelists like us find bibliographies so we can
pick up on other characters and get inspired by historical
happenings to do our own stories and novels. Then Saylor recommends
Pliny's Natural History, as the most complete guide to Roman
painting. I like this as I'm also a book cover designer. So hello
everyone.

Vale,

Octavia Fabia Scriba

http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html
Ancient Roman Fiction Website:
http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/

Octavia--Cngratulations on your citizenship!

Unfortunately, I've never heard of the Queen Elisa play. Wish I
could help.

---
Renata Corva

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Salix Astur
<salixastur@y...> wrote:

> Ex Officio Praetorium
>
> EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE
>
>
> II. Posts that merely voice agreement with a previous post without
> expanding on an issue in any way are discouraged.

Ave!

Me too!

Gaius Popillius Laenas


PS. Sorry, I just sould not resist.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism
<biojournalism@h...>" <biojournalism@h...> wrote:

> Salve.
>
> Just to announce I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma.<<

Salve Octavia Fabia

And most welcome.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism
<biojournalism@h...>" <biojournalism@h...> scripsit:

A hearty welcome to you, new civa NovaRomana from your neighbour up
in provincia America Boreoccidentalis! What a delightful addition, I
love to read, and suspect many of our fellow cives likewise may
require a constant supply of reading materials.

Roman daily life is my particular area of interest (and when I've
sufficient time, I try to add to my own web site,
www.villaivlilla.com), in fact, I have much new material (pardon the
pun) on clothing and fabric) to add.

If I can help in any way, do call upon me! Again, my warmest
congratulations on your citizenship.

Bene vale,

Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete Omnes,

I am a new Nova Roma citizen!

I'm a software engineer specializing in public safety systems
for police, fire and EMS agencies; work that has kept me quite
busy since 9/11. Besides my 20+ years of experience in software
I also served for 10 years in the U.S. Army in Military Intelligence
(yes, I know that is an oxymoron :)). I reside in the Province
of California with my life partner and our two cats.

My interest in Rome goes back to high school, where I studied
Latin for four year (more years ago than I care to mention :)).
I have always maintained my interest in Roman history, culture,
etc. but the language skills deteriorated from lack of use.

Recently I decided re-learn my forgotten Latin, not only for
the intellectual exercise, but with a view to reviving my former
studies of Roman history as a sort of hobby. I discovered the
Nova Roma web site while surfing for Latin sites.

I was immediately facinated with the concept of reviving the
Roman culture, values and religion. I've been involved with and
done studies of various pagan religions for many years. There is
a small shrine to Vesta over our hearth and a small alter in one
room.

After looking more closely at Nova Roma in the days after I found
it, I made the decision to apply for citizenship.

I give thanks to Fortuna for smiling upon me and leading me to
find Nova Roma. I have "lurked" on the mailing list for a few
days and I am very pleased with what I see. The earnest and
serious tone of the postings tells me that this I have found
sincere people who really believe in the goals of Nova Roma,
which is, as I'm sure you all know, far too uncommon on the Web.

I hope that I will be able to be of service to my Gens, my
Province and to the Senate and the People of Nova Roma.

Velete,


Livia Cornelia Hibernia
lindaw@...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
> Maximus, greetings.

Salve A. Apolloni Corde,

<snipped>

> If what you mean is that the Senate would never do it
> because they wouldn't want everyone to leave, well,
> perhaps we disagree, but I tend to think that laws and
> constitutions are there to stop people and groups
> having powers they shouldn't use. I do not take the
> view that a constitution can give a body large powers
> and then rely on that body not to use them - if it
> does this, why not simply not give it the powers in
> the first place?
>
> And a final aspect of your case which confuses me is
> this: I was under the impression that Nova Roma
> intends at some stage in the future to be an
> independent nation-state. If this aim were achieved,
> your argument would no longer apply. Do you suggest
> that it's fine for the Senate to be able to do things
> now which it shouldn't be allowed to do later? I
> struggle to understand the reasoning behind this.

Without touching on the debate of Senate powers, I hope you don't
mind me pointing out that the idea of Nova Roma intending to become a
nation-state is a misconception, albeit a common one. It has never
been a stated goal of Nova Roma to become a nation-state, a
macronation where all Nova Romans will live. Our stated goal is to
create a 108 acre forum which will be the physical focal
point/administrative center for Nova Roma, a place where a forum,
temples and other buildings will be built. I liken our future status
to the Knights of Malta, or the Catholic Church with its Vatican
City, though whether our center will be ever be considered sovereign
in that sense, I do not know. Ultimately that does not matter anyway;
our sense of community comes from Nova Roma, not from without.

Like these other organizations I mentioned, membership in Nova Roma
will always be voluntary; our laws will never have the coercive
powers backed by force that macronations do. For this I am thankful.
Any perceived abuse by the senate or magistrates could always be
answered by voting with one's feet and leaving.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius

Salve Romans:

Does this date ring a bell with anybody,
II Kal. Mar., MMDCCLI ab urbe condita (February 28th 1998)
and if it does are there any plans to celebrate it in any special way?
Just something to think about.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans Debate and the Eagle
As I have stated in the past we would like to have within the pages of the Eagle an on going series of informed, lively and civil debates on different topics of interest to the Citizens of Nova Roma. Given the nature of written debates it would allow for more sober refection than the Main list allows because of the main list instantaneous nature. I would like to ask Citizens to ponder this question and then send your responses to the Eagle, sprq753@... , for inclusion in an up coming issue

The Constitution of Nova Roma reads in part :
"We recognize the modern political realities which make the restoration of such ancient lands to us impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial claim to an amount of land at least equal to that held by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108 contiguous acres. On this land a world capital for the administration of our culture will be founded in the form of a Forum Romanum. The exact site for this New Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to be determined.
What form would our City take and what, if anything would we bring with us , from the macro world, when we move to Nova Roma ?
I look forward to reading you informed and civil debate.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Praetor, Senator & Consular D.
Iunius Palladius, greetings.

Thank you for your correction. I went back to look
again at the Declaration of Nova Roma, and I see that
I had indeed over-simplified its ideas in my memory.
The phrases identifying Nova Roma as "a sovereign
nation" near the beginning stuck in my mind more
firmly than the later parts.

I myself am of the view that with regard to her own
citizens Nova Roma ought to behave like a state,
within the obvious limitation that our laws are not
recognized by the international community. Naturally
the state cannot coerce, and should not seek to, but
this should not lead the state to hold its
responsibility to its citizens in less serious regard
than if it in fact had such coercive power. It is
important that people can leave if they want to, but
at the same time I feel it's desirable for the state
to be constituted and governed in a way which does not
make people want to leave, but which on the contrary
would make people glad to be observe the laws as if
they were genuinely binding.

Just to be clear, I'm not seeking in the above
paragraph to disagree or enter an argument with you,
and I don't imply that you would not share these
views: I merely set out my own feelings on the matter,
for the record as it were, and for the interest of
anyone who is interested!

Thanks again for prompting me to check and think more
carefully about this question.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Salve Livia Cornelia Hibernia,

Welcome to Nova Roma! It's nice to see another new lady in the Forum this
week. (I'm sorry gentlemen. I do realize that I am into the 'girl power'
thing :-))

Vale,

Diana Moravia Aventina

Livia Cornelia Hibernia,

Welcome! I am glad you have joined, and I hope you enjoy your
experience here at Nova Roma as much as I do!

(Coulda join us Tarquitii....but I won't hold it aginast you,
promise! ;-) )

Publius Tarquitius Rufus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Livia Cornelia Hibernia"
<lindaw@s...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I am a new Nova Roma citizen!
>
> I'm a software engineer specializing in public safety systems
> for police, fire and EMS agencies; work that has kept me quite
> busy since 9/11. Besides my 20+ years of experience in software
> I also served for 10 years in the U.S. Army in Military Intelligence
> (yes, I know that is an oxymoron :)). I reside in the Province
> of California with my life partner and our two cats.
>
> My interest in Rome goes back to high school, where I studied
> Latin for four year (more years ago than I care to mention :)).
> I have always maintained my interest in Roman history, culture,
> etc. but the language skills deteriorated from lack of use.
>
> Recently I decided re-learn my forgotten Latin, not only for
> the intellectual exercise, but with a view to reviving my former
> studies of Roman history as a sort of hobby. I discovered the
> Nova Roma web site while surfing for Latin sites.
>
> I was immediately facinated with the concept of reviving the
> Roman culture, values and religion. I've been involved with and
> done studies of various pagan religions for many years. There is
> a small shrine to Vesta over our hearth and a small alter in one
> room.
>
> After looking more closely at Nova Roma in the days after I found
> it, I made the decision to apply for citizenship.
>
> I give thanks to Fortuna for smiling upon me and leading me to
> find Nova Roma. I have "lurked" on the mailing list for a few
> days and I am very pleased with what I see. The earnest and
> serious tone of the postings tells me that this I have found
> sincere people who really believe in the goals of Nova Roma,
> which is, as I'm sure you all know, far too uncommon on the Web.
>
> I hope that I will be able to be of service to my Gens, my
> Province and to the Senate and the People of Nova Roma.
>
> Velete,
>
>
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia
> lindaw@s...

A. Tullius Cato Tiberi Galeri Pauline S.P.D.

It's been a while since I posted to the main list, but yes, that date is quite familiar. I would like to see citizens come up with some suggestions and ideas to celebrate.

Perhaps those of us who practice the Religio Romano, could offer sacrifice of thanksgiving to the Gods and Goddesses on that date at our home shrine or altar. Nova Romans of other faiths could follow their practices in offering thanksgiving. Just an idea.

And certainly special thanks to honorable Marcus Cassius Julianus, Senator, P.P. and many thanks to the Gods and Goddesses for giving him the inspiration.

Bene vale, A. Tullius Cato

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus. Welcome.

It is always a pleasure to hear from another citizen, especially one who is both a Roman and a Hibernian. We on the edge of the Roman world need to keep together so the other Romans don't find out about the 'water of life'. I look forward to hearing from you on the main list as it sounds like you have a great deal to offer the Republic. May the gods grant you good fortune.

From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Livia Cornelia Hibernia. Salve.

You must overlook my fellow provinicial citizen's hype. The Tarquitii have always been overly proud. . . which is probably the reason that they are no longer the Kings of Rome. We Galeria are much more subtle in out wit, intelligence, and abilities. . . plus we are more modest.

Welcome to Nova Roma Octavia! If you're so minded, I'd be pleased to
have you join me and the patrons of NR_Taverna for a virtual glass
of wine in honor of your citizenship.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, proprietor
(it's NR_Taverna@yahoogroups.com or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Taverna )

Salvete omnes.

According to Edictum Consularis CFQ III, this is my oath for an assistant
office:


I, Titus Arminius Genialis do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of Lucius Arminius Faustus while I
hold this office, except when such action would be illegal or
unconstitutional.

I, Titus Arminius Genialis further swear to fulfill the obligations and
Responsibilities of the office of scriba ludorum retiarius to the best of my
Abilities while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Titus Arminius Genialis swear to give faithful service to my
magistrate, and not to divulge any information discussed in
confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of my
magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of scriba ludorum retiarius with all the
privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

In Paulicea Regio, Brasilia Provincia, Pridie Kalends Februarias MMDCCLVI ab
urbe condita.

Valete bene.
________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Lucius Arminius Faustus [mailto:lafaustus@...]
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 30 de janeiro de 2003 15:20
Para: LISTONA
Cc: M Arminius Maior; Gaius Galerius Peregrinator; Marcus Scribonio Curio
Britannicus; Marcus Scribonius; Titus Arminius Genialis
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] EDICTUM I from the PLEBEIAN AEDILSHIP - DE SCRIBA
DESIGNATIONE



EDICTUM I FROM THE PLEBEAIN AEDILSHIP

DE SCRIBA DESIGNATIONE



The Plebeians Aediles, L. Arminius Faustus and M. Scribonius Curius
Britannicus, in accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, issue
together on full agreement, this edictum nominating the following citizens
as their scriba:


M. Arminius Maior: Scriba Ludorum Senior
G. Galerius Peregrinator: Scriba Historicus
T. Arminius Genialis: Scriba Ludorum Retiarius (webmaster)

P. Tarquitius Rufus: Scriba Maximus



M. Arminius Maior, G Galerius Peregrinator, T. Arminius Genialis are
assigned to L. Arminius while P. Tarquitius Rufus to M. Scribonius.







Datum a.d. III Kal. FEBRVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c



L. Arminius Faustus

M. Scribonius Curio Britannicus

Plebeian Aediles



---------------------------------
Busca Yahoo!
O serviço de busca mais completo da Internet. O que você pensar o Yahoo!
encontra.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/1/2003


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome Livia Cornelia!

> I am a new Nova Roma citizen!

And we're glad to have you here!

The invitiation that I just issued to Octavia a few minutes ago
I shall also extend to you. If you're so inclined, please come by
the Taverna (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Tavern) for a virtual
glass of wine in honor of your new citizenship.

I'm guessing you're a graduate of beautiful Fort Huachuca, from
what you mentioned of your military background. Maybe you and
I could swap a few stories about that too, should you wish.

In any case, welcome.

-- Marinus

Salve, Octavia

Welcome home. I also like writing novels (I am no writer, though). I
hope you enjoy staying in NR.
Vale bene

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "biojournalism <biojournalism@...>"
<biojournalism@...>
Fecha: Viernes, Enero 31, 2003 2:43 am
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] I've just been told I'm now a new citizen of Nova
Roma!

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve.
>
>
>
> Just to announce I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma. My name is
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba. I write original stories and fictional
> diaries
>
> or audio plays (anyone in Nova Roma can perform free anytime)set
> in
>
> ancient Rome and post them on my ancient Roman literature Web site
>
> at http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/ which is under
>
> construction. I'm still revising my one-act play, excellent for
>
> audio set in 200 BCE. The rest of my postings on my Web site will
> be
>
> short stories about ordinary life in rome in the 200 BCE to 170
> BCE
>
> era, give or take a few years as I research my historical
>
> happenings/facts.
>
>
>
> Is anyone familiar with the opera/ballet titled Elisa, Queen of
>
> Carthage based on the Roman Africanus, who after conquoring
> Hannibal
>
> and finishing up in Carthage attracts the attention of the new
>
> Queen? The dance/ballet/opera was performed a few years ago by a
>
> Beirut (Phoenecian)dance company traveling to various nations to
>
> perform "Elisa." Would anyone know what the Roman
> influence was on
>
> Armenia in 200 BCE? I'm writing a story based on the folkloric
>
> Armenian legend of Prince Vatchakan and a girl named Anahid
>
> (Armenian history), but moving the setting to Rome in 200 BCE.
>
>
>
> The proverb the story that the story is based on is: the tweechig
>
> (Armenian/Ururatian Queen) will marry the Roman senator if he
> learns
>
> an artisan trade, like carpentry or metalworking besides his
>
> senatorial, professonal/legal status in Rome. In any case. I'm
> just
>
> introducing myself. I'm Octavia, and I've written 30 books an am
>
> focusing on researching and writing one authentic-detail of
> history-
>
> detective novel called The Ransomer, based in Rome 200 BCE.
>
>
>
> So hello, everyone. I live in California and my favorite ancestor
>
> came to the US from the hill country suburbs an hour from Rome 120
>
> years ago. You can check out my other Web sites also.
>
>
>
> I just finished reading Stephen Saylor's novel, Arms of Nemisis ab
>
> out Marcus Licnius Crassus, whom he calls, "one of history's
> biggest
>
> losers." Saylor says this was because at his height of power
> and
>
> prestige as the "richest man in Rome," he got himself
> decapitated in
>
> 53BCE in a campaign against the Parthians. He also, in the novel,
>
> burned down a home because he wanted to buy the house next to it,
>
> then persuaded the owner to sell cheap, and after getting the
>
> contract or money, proceded to have his private fire brigade
>
> extinguish the flames. Now that's the kind of writing that's based
>
> on detailed historical research!
>
>
>
> The author, (who writes in the first person) also gives a good
> list
>
> of bographies of the Romans he writes about in his novels.
>
> Wonderful. It helps novelists like us find bibliographies so we
> can
>
> pick up on other characters and get inspired by historical
>
> happenings to do our own stories and novels. Then Saylor
> recommends
>
> Pliny's Natural History, as the most complete guide to Roman
>
> painting. I like this as I'm also a book cover designer. So hello
>
> everyone.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba
>
>
>
> http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html
>
> Ancient Roman Fiction Website:
>
> http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

Salvete omnes,

I just arrived home for a just a few days from my northern projects
and wanted to say hello. I sure needed a break from the -47 C
weather. Marcus Aurelius would be proud of my stoicism .

I am happy to see Res Republica is flourishing and the new
administration is in place. I still have another 6 or 7 weeks of work
left but I'll have a lot of time to contribute to NR when I return.
I'll keep in touch over the next few days until my departure on
Tuesday.

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve,
Welcome to you too, Hibernia (By the way...Are you Irish?)

Vale bene

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Livia Cornelia Hibernia" <lindaw@...>
Fecha: Viernes, Enero 31, 2003 5:18 am
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Introduction

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
>
>
> I am a new Nova Roma citizen!
>
>
>
> I'm a software engineer specializing in public safety systems
>
> for police, fire and EMS agencies; work that has kept me quite
>
> busy since 9/11. Besides my 20+ years of experience in software
>
> I also served for 10 years in the U.S. Army in Military Intelligence
>
> (yes, I know that is an oxymoron :)). I reside in the Province
>
> of California with my life partner and our two cats.
>
>
>
> My interest in Rome goes back to high school, where I studied
>
> Latin for four year (more years ago than I care to mention :)).
>
> I have always maintained my interest in Roman history, culture,
>
> etc. but the language skills deteriorated from lack of use.
>
>
>
> Recently I decided re-learn my forgotten Latin, not only for
>
> the intellectual exercise, but with a view to reviving my former
>
> studies of Roman history as a sort of hobby. I discovered the
>
> Nova Roma web site while surfing for Latin sites.
>
>
>
> I was immediately facinated with the concept of reviving the
>
> Roman culture, values and religion. I've been involved with and
>
> done studies of various pagan religions for many years. There is
>
> a small shrine to Vesta over our hearth and a small alter in one
>
> room.
>
>
>
> After looking more closely at Nova Roma in the days after I found
>
> it, I made the decision to apply for citizenship.
>
>
>
> I give thanks to Fortuna for smiling upon me and leading me to
>
> find Nova Roma. I have "lurked" on the mailing list for
> a few
>
> days and I am very pleased with what I see. The earnest and
>
> serious tone of the postings tells me that this I have found
>
> sincere people who really believe in the goals of Nova Roma,
>
> which is, as I'm sure you all know, far too uncommon on the Web.
>
>
>
> I hope that I will be able to be of service to my Gens, my
>
> Province and to the Senate and the People of Nova Roma.
>
>
>
> Velete,
>
>
>
>
>
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia
>
> lindaw@...
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </body></html>
>
>

Interesting viewpoint. My experience with Earthlink has been just the opposite. I have found them to be very helpful, and I have never had a service problem, billing problem, or any other problem with them. I've been with them now for about 4 years, originally dial-up, now DSL. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about other ISP's.

M. Stellatinus Gregorius

-------Original Message-------
From: jmath669642reng@...
Sent: 01/30/03 10:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Earthlink Layoffs

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>

>
>What form would our City take and what, if anything would we bring with us , from the macro world, when we move to Nova Roma ?
>I look forward to reading you informed and civil debate.
>

What's the possibility of buying or leasing an island (preferably nice & warm!) as some of the ultra-capitalist money-making micros have done? On the other hand, there's also that when Italy founbd out what Damanhur had built under the Alps and turned up to demolish it, Damanhur appealed to the Arts Ministry as a national treasure and was accepted. No doubt a surreptitiously reconstructed Forum Romanorum would also merit consideration.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

I have promised to write 4 articles about Roman-themed websites for
the local universitys history faculty newsletter. The idea would be
to pick some themes and to find 6-8 best sites regarding each of
those themes and shortly introduce them to the readers of the
newsletter. The audience is mainly history students and historians.
The reason for writing this article series is to help those
historians and students who have no time or willingness to find out
themselves some good resources from the net about ancient Rome. The
newsletter is not big publication, but it reaches quite wide audience.

I have collected some bookmarks for myself on different areas, but I
would also like to hear from you others what would you suggest to be
the best sites on the following themes:

for issue 1/2003: re-enactment
for issue 2/2003: technology, science, engineering
for issue 3/2003: everyday life
for issue 4/2003: Latin

The first article is obviously more interesting for the students, but
the rest three could well interest professionals in those fields.

In every article I will of course mention NR and also the names of
the people who have helped me in this article series. The newsletter
is in Finnish and I will publish the writings at the Regio Finnica
website. I will also translate them into English and send them for
the Eagle once they are ready and see if Eagle wants to publish them.

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Salve Paulinus!!!

We've missed you!

<I still have another 6 or 7 weeks of work
<left but I'll have a lot of time to contribute to NR when I return.
<I'll keep in touch over the next few days until my departure on
<Tuesday.
Looking forward to your return!

Vale
Diana

Diana Moravia Aventina

Salvete!!

find the latest Roman news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Enjoy...

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Salve YES the Eagle wants to print them!!! Are they done yet? (grin)


Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Curius Saturninus
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:16 PM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] website articles

Salvete omnes,

I have promised to write 4 articles about Roman-themed websites for
the local universitys history faculty newsletter. The idea would be
to pick some themes and to find 6-8 best sites regarding each of
those themes and shortly introduce them to the readers of the
newsletter. The audience is mainly history students and historians.
The reason for writing this article series is to help those
historians and students who have no time or willingness to find out
themselves some good resources from the net about ancient Rome. The
newsletter is not big publication, but it reaches quite wide audience.

I have collected some bookmarks for myself on different areas, but I
would also like to hear from you others what would you suggest to be
the best sites on the following themes:

for issue 1/2003: re-enactment
for issue 2/2003: technology, science, engineering
for issue 3/2003: everyday life
for issue 4/2003: Latin

The first article is obviously more interesting for the students, but
the rest three could well interest professionals in those fields.

In every article I will of course mention NR and also the names of
the people who have helped me in this article series. The newsletter
is in Finnish and I will publish the writings at the Regio Finnica
website. I will also translate them into English and send them for
the Eagle once they are ready and see if Eagle wants to publish them.

Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Welcome to Nova Roma. I enjoy reading the Roman detective novels by Lindsay Davis.

Again, welcome and may the gods bless you.

Caius Titinius Varus

----- Original Message -----
From: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] I've just been told I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma!


Salve.

Just to announce I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma. My name is
Octavia Fabia Scriba. I write original stories and fictional diaries
or audio plays (anyone in Nova Roma can perform free anytime)set in
ancient Rome and post them on my ancient Roman literature Web site
at http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/ which is under
construction. I'm still revising my one-act play, excellent for
audio set in 200 BCE. The rest of my postings on my Web site will be
short stories about ordinary life in rome in the 200 BCE to 170 BCE
era, give or take a few years as I research my historical
happenings/facts.

Is anyone familiar with the opera/ballet titled Elisa, Queen of
Carthage based on the Roman Africanus, who after conquoring Hannibal
and finishing up in Carthage attracts the attention of the new
Queen? The dance/ballet/opera was performed a few years ago by a
Beirut (Phoenecian)dance company traveling to various nations to
perform "Elisa." Would anyone know what the Roman influence was on
Armenia in 200 BCE? I'm writing a story based on the folkloric
Armenian legend of Prince Vatchakan and a girl named Anahid
(Armenian history), but moving the setting to Rome in 200 BCE.

The proverb the story that the story is based on is: the tweechig
(Armenian/Ururatian Queen) will marry the Roman senator if he learns
an artisan trade, like carpentry or metalworking besides his
senatorial, professonal/legal status in Rome. In any case. I'm just
introducing myself. I'm Octavia, and I've written 30 books an am
focusing on researching and writing one authentic-detail of history-
detective novel called The Ransomer, based in Rome 200 BCE.

So hello, everyone. I live in California and my favorite ancestor
came to the US from the hill country suburbs an hour from Rome 120
years ago. You can check out my other Web sites also.

I just finished reading Stephen Saylor's novel, Arms of Nemisis ab
out Marcus Licnius Crassus, whom he calls, "one of history's biggest
losers." Saylor says this was because at his height of power and
prestige as the "richest man in Rome," he got himself decapitated in
53BCE in a campaign against the Parthians. He also, in the novel,
burned down a home because he wanted to buy the house next to it,
then persuaded the owner to sell cheap, and after getting the
contract or money, proceded to have his private fire brigade
extinguish the flames. Now that's the kind of writing that's based
on detailed historical research!

The author, (who writes in the first person) also gives a good list
of bographies of the Romans he writes about in his novels.
Wonderful. It helps novelists like us find bibliographies so we can
pick up on other characters and get inspired by historical
happenings to do our own stories and novels. Then Saylor recommends
Pliny's Natural History, as the most complete guide to Roman
painting. I like this as I'm also a book cover designer. So hello
everyone.

Vale,

Octavia Fabia Scriba

http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html
Ancient Roman Fiction Website:
http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Octavia, are you going to use my roman pimp idea?







The Law Office of James L. LaSalle
417 East 13th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
(816).471.2111
(816).510.0072(cell)
(816).471.8412(Fax)
The information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by using the contact information in the "reply to" field above and return the original message to the sender. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] I've just been told I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma!


Salve.

Just to announce I'm now a new citizen of Nova Roma. My name is
Octavia Fabia Scriba. I write original stories and fictional diaries
or audio plays (anyone in Nova Roma can perform free anytime)set in
ancient Rome and post them on my ancient Roman literature Web site
at http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/ which is under
construction. I'm still revising my one-act play, excellent for
audio set in 200 BCE. The rest of my postings on my Web site will be
short stories about ordinary life in rome in the 200 BCE to 170 BCE
era, give or take a few years as I research my historical
happenings/facts.

Is anyone familiar with the opera/ballet titled Elisa, Queen of
Carthage based on the Roman Africanus, who after conquoring Hannibal
and finishing up in Carthage attracts the attention of the new
Queen? The dance/ballet/opera was performed a few years ago by a
Beirut (Phoenecian)dance company traveling to various nations to
perform "Elisa." Would anyone know what the Roman influence was on
Armenia in 200 BCE? I'm writing a story based on the folkloric
Armenian legend of Prince Vatchakan and a girl named Anahid
(Armenian history), but moving the setting to Rome in 200 BCE.

The proverb the story that the story is based on is: the tweechig
(Armenian/Ururatian Queen) will marry the Roman senator if he learns
an artisan trade, like carpentry or metalworking besides his
senatorial, professonal/legal status in Rome. In any case. I'm just
introducing myself. I'm Octavia, and I've written 30 books an am
focusing on researching and writing one authentic-detail of history-
detective novel called The Ransomer, based in Rome 200 BCE.

So hello, everyone. I live in California and my favorite ancestor
came to the US from the hill country suburbs an hour from Rome 120
years ago. You can check out my other Web sites also.

I just finished reading Stephen Saylor's novel, Arms of Nemisis ab
out Marcus Licnius Crassus, whom he calls, "one of history's biggest
losers." Saylor says this was because at his height of power and
prestige as the "richest man in Rome," he got himself decapitated in
53BCE in a campaign against the Parthians. He also, in the novel,
burned down a home because he wanted to buy the house next to it,
then persuaded the owner to sell cheap, and after getting the
contract or money, proceded to have his private fire brigade
extinguish the flames. Now that's the kind of writing that's based
on detailed historical research!

The author, (who writes in the first person) also gives a good list
of bographies of the Romans he writes about in his novels.
Wonderful. It helps novelists like us find bibliographies so we can
pick up on other characters and get inspired by historical
happenings to do our own stories and novels. Then Saylor recommends
Pliny's Natural History, as the most complete guide to Roman
painting. I like this as I'm also a book cover designer. So hello
everyone.

Vale,

Octavia Fabia Scriba

http://dnanovels.tripod.com/novels.html
Ancient Roman Fiction Website:
http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com/html/






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]