Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Feb 24-28, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8311 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8312 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8313 From: malkhos Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8314 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8315 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8316 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Fw: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8317 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8318 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8319 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Provincia Gallia -- New Citizens, Nouveaux Citoyens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8320 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8321 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Questions for the Tribune candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8322 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8323 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8324 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8325 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8326 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8327 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8328 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8329 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8330 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8331 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8332 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8333 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Get ready to vote in the election!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8334 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8335 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8336 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8337 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8338 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8339 From: Lucius Mauricius Procopious Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Return
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8340 From: bradley Skene Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Testament of Malkhos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8341 From: Christopher Mortimer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8342 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8343 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8344 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8345 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8346 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Testament of Malkhos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8347 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Pray for Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8348 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Pray for Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8349 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Pray for Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8350 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8351 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Testament of Malkhos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8352 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8353 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8354 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8355 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8356 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8357 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8358 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Endorsement For Athanasius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8359 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8360 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8361 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8362 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8363 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: How I solved my search for the appropriate Latin word.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8364 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8365 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8366 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8367 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8368 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8369 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: An update from the Senior Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8370 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: FACTIO VENETA AZUL BLUE BLEU AZZURRO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8372 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8373 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8374 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Here's the answer I received from Carleton University Classics Dept.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8375 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8376 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8377 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Rosia Montana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8378 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Nova Britannia Chat Room Tonight - All Welcome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8379 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8380 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8381 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8382 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8383 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8384 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8385 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8386 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8387 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8388 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8389 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: NR Land Project -- We need your input
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8390 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: On loss: Testament of Malkhos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8391 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: recent 'heated' posts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8392 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8393 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: ABOUT THE EAGLE, VETOES, AND PERSONALITIES (AS I SEE IT)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8394 From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Edictum Propraetoricium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8395 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Negative List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8396 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Negative List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8397 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8398 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8399 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8400 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: ABOUT THE EAGLE, VETOES, AND PERSONALITIES (AS I SEE IT)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8401 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8402 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8403 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8404 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: 62 year old author
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8405 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8406 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8407 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8408 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8409 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: It's time to vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8410 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8411 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8412 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8413 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8414 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8415 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8416 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8417 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8418 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8419 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8420 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8421 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8422 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8423 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8425 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: My prayers are with you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8426 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Great Web site for non-classical ancient cultures
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8427 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8428 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8429 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8430 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8431 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8432 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8433 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8434 From: nathan guiboche Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Return
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8435 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8436 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8437 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8438 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8439 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8440 From: sceptia Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Elections For Tribuns Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8441 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8442 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8443 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: EQUIRRIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8444 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: FYI ] Public lecture - New York City - March 13
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8445 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Endorsement
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8446 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Thanks to all
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8447 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Endorsement
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8448 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8449 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: CHARIOT RACES in Factio Praesina - RESULTS!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8450 From: Les Peterson Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8451 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Negative List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8452 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8453 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8454 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8455 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Happy 5th Birthday to all Nova Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8456 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Gens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8457 From: scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: You have a posty!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8458 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re-Focusing a bit...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8459 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8460 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8461 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8462 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8463 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Gens



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8311 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
L. Suetonius Nerva writes:

[addressing the Senior Consul]
> Although I acknowledge your authority in this area, there is
> no excuse for your not making your position known sooner. Such
> a decision has caused unconscionable embarrasment to the Honorable
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

While I'm not pleased to see my able and ambitious Quaestor
placed in this awkward position either, I would advise both you
and him that the proper procedure with any such effort is to present
it to those magistrates in a position to veto it first. If that
presentation occurs in the public forum, then vetos will occur here
too. My Aedilean colleague discovered this difficult political truth
just a bit over a week ago.

I'd also have advised the Senior Consul, had he asked me, to send
a note to Quaestor Galerius Paulinus in private, asking him to
withdraw the proposal until the Senate could act on the matter.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8312 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and the Citizens of Nova Roma

To be as honest as I know how ,I am at a loss for words!!!! The notice I posted on the main list, on patronage, was FIRST sent ,in draft form, to the Novaromaeagle staff site at yahoogroups on January 12 message number 30 out of 93 and again in modified form on January 24 message number 62 of 93 . Members of the Eagle staff who also serve as members of your staff received these posts and said NOT ONE WORD about them that would indicate that you or your colleague had any problem with the Eagle paying its way in the world and relying less on the NR treasury.

The truly mystifying thing, is that BOTH YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUE , BOTH CONSULS, ARE ALSO PRIVY TO THIS LIST AND NEITHER OF YOU SAID A WORD THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS or that if we did it would be vetoed

I am told time and time again that the Eagle MUST pay its own way and EVERYTIME we put one step forward to make this happen somebody does something to push us back five steps in the opposite direction The Patronage program has nothing to do with the budget other than freeing up funds for other uses. I am sure that this patronage plan is in the best Roman tradition. Until last year NR ONLY had money that was donated. NR is almost 5 years old and for the first four years only had money people were willing to give. Nothing in the patronage program costs the treasury a DIME.

The patronage program that I announced on Sunday has already received a pledge from a person who became a citizen on February 5th, L. Suetonius Nerva and he has already sent a check , for $250.00 to help pay for the Eagle. In less than a day we have raised almost 10% of the money in the current NR treasury that some have said took 5 years to raise. In less that a day!!!!

With all do respect to you and your colleague, and knowing how much you must have on your plate, a word before I posted on the ML would have cause me less embarrassment and less work for you. It would also have saved the generous L. Suetonius Nerva from writing a check that will now have to be sent back.

If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel that I am not the person to serve as Curator Differum please have the decency to ask for my resignation.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor
----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:20 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"

Salve Illustrus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!

I acknowledge the ambitions that You have when it comes to the Eagle,
this is well and good, but it is the Senate that takes all decisions
about the budget according to the Constitution V. B.

Because of the present discussion in the Senate about a modification
of the Budget where the Eagle is one of the main issues I must VETO
item 3. (below) in your latest message according to the power given
to me by the Constitution IV A. 2. d.

The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves a
decision about such longtime undertakings and it would be to
anticipate the decision of the Senate to allow such a project on your
part.

>3. After some brainstorming on finances the staff and I have
>rediscovered the time honored ROMAN TRADITION OF PATRONS
>
>If you would like to be listed in the EAGLE as a Patron all you have
>to do is pick from the following Levels and send in your check.
>
>Clines (client) Level I 50.00 Donation
>Cultor (fosterner) Level II 125.00 Donation
>Amicus (friend) Level III 250.00 Donation
>Comes (partner) Level IV 400.00 Donation
>Patronus (patron) Level V 500.00 Donation
>
>"What do I get if I am a Patron of the Eagle", you ask? Good question
>
>If you sign up for the Clines level you will receive
>One year subscription to the Eagle and your name on the Patron Page.
>
>If you sign up for the Cultor Level you will receive a two years
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level.
>
>If you sign up for the Amicus Level you will receive a two year
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle mug
>naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people"
>
>If you sign up for the Comes Level you will receive a two year
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle patron
>mug naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people" and a
>special drawing of the Nova Roma Eagle SPQR symbol by the Eagle's
>resident artist.
>
>If you sign up for the Patronus Level V you will receive a three
>year subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle patron
>mug naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people" and a
>special self portrait by the Eagle's resident artist and an issue
>dedicated to YOU
>
>Vale
>
>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>Curator Differum

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8313 From: malkhos Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
The answer to the immediate question in libera; and it is not
surprising that it has caused some uncertianity, althought it must
have been a common word and has well known Romances descendents
(livre in French; the stylized 'L' monogram used to denoted the
British pound) it was not a common literary word: it does not, I
beleive occur in Lewis' Elementary, but is the first defintion given
in the OLD.

More widely, however, I have just discovered Nova Roma and am greatly
intersted in joining, but I have been for a few days monitoring the
posts here and on some of the other lists. The string of replies to
this rather innocent question contians appaling bitterness; and I
have seen simialr bad manners elsewhere. Is this sort of thing common
here? If so, why is it tolerated?

Malkhos


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism
<biojournalism@h...>" <biojournalism@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Can someone tell me the Roman (Latin) word for measuring by the
> pound? Sample sentence, "Masinissa wants 5,000 pounds of gold,
3,000
> pounds of pepper, 30,000 pounds of silver and 4,000 tunics of silk."
> What word can I substitute for pound to mean a similar unit of
> measurement such as a pound of silver or a pound of beans? My novel
> takes place 150 BCE in Rome and with Cato and Scipio in Numidia.
>
>
> Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8314 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
SNIP
>
> If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel
> that I am not the person to serve as Curator
> Differum please have the decency to ask for my
> resignation.

Tiberius Galerius,

I for one would hate to see you leave your office. You
have been the most energetic Curator we have had in
some time. We need more people like you. I really did
like your idea to finance the Eagle, and I will do
what I can in assisting you in bringing it about.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8315 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-24
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/24/03 3:49:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jlasalle@s... writes:
>
>
> > The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves a
decison
> > that involves a decision that The Senate is at the moment
discussing.
> >
>
> It is not as hard as that. The Senate is voting on giving the
>Eagle more money.
> The Curator took it on himself to come up with an idea to raise
>more money for the Eagle, which was admirable, was illegal under
>the Roman constitution. Had he approached
> the Senate first with his idea, which I like by the way, he
>wouldn't have suffered that veto to his announcement.

It may be illegal at the moment but in a few days it likely will be.
The Tribunes have posted the items for the Senate vote. One of them
is the item about the Eagle voted on a few weeks ago (it did not pass
because not enough senators voted within the specified time period).
That item will allow the Curator to seek means to finance the Eagle,
such as this proposed system that would be perfectly acceptable.

It would have been better for the Consul to quietly ask the Curator
Differum to withdraw his edict and postpone the project for a week
rather than publicly embarass him. Sometimes it is suitable to
publicly rebuke someone but generally it is not. This was one of
those times when it was not necessary I believe.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8316 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Fw: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
I second the opinion of L. Sicinius Drusus. You are obviously sincere in the execution of your duties, as indicated by the passionate defense of your actions, posted to this group, and Nova Roma would be much the poorer for your loss.

Vale, Lucius

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"



--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
SNIP
>
> If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel
> that I am not the person to serve as Curator
> Differum please have the decency to ask for my
> resignation.

Tiberius Galerius,

I for one would hate to see you leave your office. You
have been the most energetic Curator we have had in
some time. We need more people like you. I really did
like your idea to finance the Eagle, and I will do
what I can in assisting you in bringing it about.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8317 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve, Illustrissimus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Curator Differum

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escreveu: >
Salve Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and the
> Citizens of Nova Roma
[..]

> The truly mystifying thing, is that BOTH YOU AND
> YOUR COLLEAGUE , BOTH CONSULS, ARE ALSO PRIVY TO
> THIS LIST AND NEITHER OF YOU SAID A WORD THAT WE
> SHOULD NOT DO THIS or that if we did it would be
> vetoed
> I am told time and time again that the Eagle MUST
> pay its own way and EVERYTIME we put one step
> forward to make this happen somebody does something
> to push us back five steps in the opposite direction
> The Patronage program has nothing to do with the
> budget other than freeing up funds for other uses.
[..]

M.ARMINIUS: I believe that the consules and their
staff didnt disagree with your initiative, but with
minor technical details. The big problem is that, when
someone donates money to you, or to the Eagle, Nova
Roma is responsible for the procedure, since you is a
novaroman magistrate.
So, i believe that the money needs to be directed to
the NR treasure, and then redirected (by the
Quaestores, who recognize thet the money is related to
the Eagle) to you, the Curator Differum.
Seems to be a bit "bureaucratic", but this is
necessary (please, correct me if i am wrong).


[..]
> The patronage program that I announced on Sunday
> has already received a pledge from a person who
> became a citizen on February 5th, L. Suetonius
> Nerva and he has already sent a check , for $250.00
> to help pay for the Eagle. In less than a day we
> have raised almost 10% of the money in the current
> NR treasury that some have said took 5 years to
> raise. In less that a day!!!!
>
> With all do respect to you and your colleague, and
> knowing how much you must have on your plate, a word
> before I posted on the ML would have cause me less
> embarrassment and less work for you. It would also
> have saved the generous L. Suetonius Nerva from
> writing a check that will now have to be sent back.

M.ARMINIUS: Whoa! Please, Tiberius Galerius, hold the
check a bit more! We can solve the situation with more
dialogue.


> If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel
> that I am not the person to serve as Curator
> Differum please have the decency to ask for my
> resignation.

M.ARMINIUS: Tiberius Galerius, i recognize your
efforts to the better of Nova Roma. Please, understand
that this is about a minor, technical detail, and not
towards you personally; a magistrate has only three
days to veto a magisterial edict, and the Senatus
Consulta can take more time. Perhaps the consul
thought that your edict can be vetoed now and rewrited
shortly later.
And, I am sure that the consules want you to remain
our Curator Differum.


Thank you, and Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior
Senator, Accensus.


-----
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum et Quaestor

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:20 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle
> and your Patronage"
>
> Salve Illustrus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!
>
> I acknowledge the ambitions that You have when it
> comes to the Eagle,
> this is well and good, but it is the Senate that
> takes all decisions
> about the budget according to the Constitution V. B.
>
> Because of the present discussion in the Senate
> about a modification
> of the Budget where the Eagle is one of the main
> issues I must VETO
> item 3. (below) in your latest message according to
> the power given
> to me by the Constitution IV A. 2. d.
[..]
> >3. After some brainstorming on finances the staff
> and I have
> >rediscovered the time honored ROMAN TRADITION OF
> PATRONS
> >
> >If you would like to be listed in the EAGLE as a
> Patron all you have
> >to do is pick from the following Levels and send in
> your check.
> >
> >Clines (client) Level I
> 50.00 Donation
> >Cultor (fosterner) Level II
> 125.00 Donation
> >Amicus (friend) Level III
> 250.00 Donation
> >Comes (partner) Level IV
> 400.00 Donation
> >Patronus (patron) Level V
> 500.00 Donation
[..]
> >Vale
> >
> >Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >Curator Differum
>
> --
>
> Vale
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator


_______________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8318 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve, Marci:

You are correct, technically speaking Marcus, as per the Constitution of Nova Roma, but let's get real, guys (and gals):

Tiberius was simply acting in what he considered to be the best interests of Nova Roma. A publication, such as the Eagle purports to be, must be a going concern, grounded on a sound financial base. His efforts to establish the paper as such is simple common sense - and while effusive musings about the "bureaucracy" and the "treasury" are all very well, they are beside the point. The definitive issue is, who's paying the bills?

I think that's the issue the honorable Tiberius was addressing with his notion of a "Patron's List," and it deserves serious consideration.

Vale.

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: M Arminius Maior
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


Salve, Illustrissimus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Curator Differum

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escreveu: >
Salve Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and the
> Citizens of Nova Roma
[..]

> The truly mystifying thing, is that BOTH YOU AND
> YOUR COLLEAGUE , BOTH CONSULS, ARE ALSO PRIVY TO
> THIS LIST AND NEITHER OF YOU SAID A WORD THAT WE
> SHOULD NOT DO THIS or that if we did it would be
> vetoed
> I am told time and time again that the Eagle MUST
> pay its own way and EVERYTIME we put one step
> forward to make this happen somebody does something
> to push us back five steps in the opposite direction
> The Patronage program has nothing to do with the
> budget other than freeing up funds for other uses.
[..]

M.ARMINIUS: I believe that the consules and their
staff didnt disagree with your initiative, but with
minor technical details. The big problem is that, when
someone donates money to you, or to the Eagle, Nova
Roma is responsible for the procedure, since you is a
novaroman magistrate.
So, i believe that the money needs to be directed to
the NR treasure, and then redirected (by the
Quaestores, who recognize thet the money is related to
the Eagle) to you, the Curator Differum.
Seems to be a bit "bureaucratic", but this is
necessary (please, correct me if i am wrong).


[..]
> The patronage program that I announced on Sunday
> has already received a pledge from a person who
> became a citizen on February 5th, L. Suetonius
> Nerva and he has already sent a check , for $250.00
> to help pay for the Eagle. In less than a day we
> have raised almost 10% of the money in the current
> NR treasury that some have said took 5 years to
> raise. In less that a day!!!!
>
> With all do respect to you and your colleague, and
> knowing how much you must have on your plate, a word
> before I posted on the ML would have cause me less
> embarrassment and less work for you. It would also
> have saved the generous L. Suetonius Nerva from
> writing a check that will now have to be sent back.

M.ARMINIUS: Whoa! Please, Tiberius Galerius, hold the
check a bit more! We can solve the situation with more
dialogue.


> If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel
> that I am not the person to serve as Curator
> Differum please have the decency to ask for my
> resignation.

M.ARMINIUS: Tiberius Galerius, i recognize your
efforts to the better of Nova Roma. Please, understand
that this is about a minor, technical detail, and not
towards you personally; a magistrate has only three
days to veto a magisterial edict, and the Senatus
Consulta can take more time. Perhaps the consul
thought that your edict can be vetoed now and rewrited
shortly later.
And, I am sure that the consules want you to remain
our Curator Differum.


Thank you, and Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior
Senator, Accensus.


-----
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum et Quaestor

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:20 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle
> and your Patronage"
>
> Salve Illustrus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!
>
> I acknowledge the ambitions that You have when it
> comes to the Eagle,
> this is well and good, but it is the Senate that
> takes all decisions
> about the budget according to the Constitution V. B.
>
> Because of the present discussion in the Senate
> about a modification
> of the Budget where the Eagle is one of the main
> issues I must VETO
> item 3. (below) in your latest message according to
> the power given
> to me by the Constitution IV A. 2. d.
[..]
> >3. After some brainstorming on finances the staff
> and I have
> >rediscovered the time honored ROMAN TRADITION OF
> PATRONS
> >
> >If you would like to be listed in the EAGLE as a
> Patron all you have
> >to do is pick from the following Levels and send in
> your check.
> >
> >Clines (client) Level I
> 50.00 Donation
> >Cultor (fosterner) Level II
> 125.00 Donation
> >Amicus (friend) Level III
> 250.00 Donation
> >Comes (partner) Level IV
> 400.00 Donation
> >Patronus (patron) Level V
> 500.00 Donation
[..]
> >Vale
> >
> >Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >Curator Differum
>
> --
>
> Vale
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator


_______________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8319 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Provincia Gallia -- New Citizens, Nouveaux Citoyens
Salvete,

I would like to invite all the new citizens of Provincia Gallia to subscribe to the
official list at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Gallia/
We have a lot to discuss and particularly the future organisation of our Province.
Come along!!

Tous les nouveaux citoyens de la Provincia Gallia sont invit�s � s'inscrire � la liste
officielle afin de participer � la future organisation de notre Province �:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Gallia/
Nous vous attendons!!

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8320 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salvete citizens,

I think that everyone has made good points all around regarding our Eagle
editor's proposal and our Senior Consul's veto.

Anyone who is in this Forum knows that we have a wonderful and enthusiastic
editor! He took the initiative for reviving the Eagle and no one is
forgetting that! But it is true that we do have a bureaucracy here and we
need to follow procedures (as annoying as that sometimes is), which
unfortunately also includes the cold hard fact that we may sometimes need to
veto a proposal by someone that we like and respect. It is not an enjoyable
thing to do, which I can say from recent experience!

In any case, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus has a few excellent ideas, which I
am sure will be approved by the Senate, but these things do take a bit of
time. They are already voting on certain things regarding the Eagle and so
this is a priority in the Senate. This was mentioned in both the report of
the last month's Senate meeting, and the agenda for this month's Senate
meeting where the voting is going on as I write this.

Everyone including Caeso Fabius Quintilianus is 100% behind our editor! So
let's not blurry that fact when we get upset because we see that a good
idea has been vetoed. Just sit tight and everything will be ok!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8321 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Questions for the Tribune candidates
Salve Laenas,

<I see Diana, not that you are safely elected, you start quizzes for
< the rest of us ;-).
Ha ha ha!! I knew someone would notice! But just in case anyone asked, I
made sure that I would only ask questions that I could answer myself :-)

And to both you and Gaius Modius Athanasius: thank you for answering! I am
sure that you would both make fine Tribunes!

Vale!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8322 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve,

> To be as honest as I know how ,I am at a loss for words!!!! The
notice I posted on the main list, on patronage, was FIRST sent ,in
draft form, to the Novaromaeagle staff site at yahoogroups on January
12 message number 30 out of 93 and again in modified form on January
24 message number 62 of 93 . Members of the Eagle staff who also
serve as members of your staff received these posts and said NOT ONE
WORD about them that would indicate that you or your colleague had
any problem with the Eagle paying its way in the world and relying
less on the NR treasury.
>
> The truly mystifying thing, is that BOTH YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUE ,
BOTH CONSULS, ARE ALSO PRIVY TO THIS LIST AND NEITHER OF YOU SAID A
WORD THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS or that if we did it would be vetoed

Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should have an independent
press that is not subject to the political whimsy of various
magistrates and the financial influence of the Senate.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8323 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>"
<richmal@...> wrote:

> Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> have an independent
> press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> various
> magistrates and the financial influence of the
> Senate.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
Salve,
Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
"Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
side of the "Eagle"

If You, or any other citizen wishes to start up a
rival newspaper where you assume the Macronational
Legal Liabilities that Nova Roma Inc has with the
"Eagle" you are free to do so.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8324 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Gaius Basilicatus Agricola writes:

> The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves
> a decison that involves a decision that The Senate is at the
> moment discussing.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

I remind you of your oath of office sir. You have chosen to mock
a Consular veto. You knew full well from the subject line that it
was a Consular veto when you did so.

Would you, if arguing before the Supreme Court, make a mockery of
some awkward wording by the Chief Justice? Or make a mockery of
the President of the United States when he is speaking in his
official capacity? Our Consuls are our highest magistrates vested
with Imperium, and you have chosen to mock a Consular veto.

By your oath as Legatus you are sworn to uphold the honor of
Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people
and the Senate of Nova Roma. Your mockery of the Senior Consul
is an insult not only to our republic, but to your word as a
magistrate, and as a Roman citizen.

I deplore you sir.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8325 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8326 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>"
<richmal@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius
> Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> > <richmal@a...> wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > > have an independent
> > > press that is not subject to the political
> whimsy of
> > > various
> > > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > > Senate.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Q. Cassius Calvus
> > >
> > Salve,
> > Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is
> currenty
> > liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> > "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible
> suits,
> > Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> > Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver
> the
> > product. As long as that is the situation the
> Board of
> > Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> > Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates)
> would be
> > remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> > Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> > side of the "Eagle"
>
> I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood
> me. This veto
> shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the
> treasury. The Eagle
> should be either breaking even or adding to the
> treasury not a slow
> bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The
> Eagle remains
> virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such
> as it is) of the
> treasury its existance remains problematic. All it
> takes is one
> article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like
> (ie a historical
> article that undermines a political position) and
> voila one
> intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its
> source of operating
> funds.
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
If a magistrate attempted that he would need a
majority of the Tribunes of the Plebs at his beck and
call because that action would be a clear violation of
Section II B 4 of the Constitution.

"The right to participate in all public forums and
discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such
forums to be supported by the State. Such
communications, regardless of their content, may not
be restricted by the State, except where they
represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic. Such officially sponsored forums may be
expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests
of maintaining order and civility"



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8327 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Avete Q. Cassius et Omnes,

I do not think it would be that easy, for moneys are set aside to the Eagle once a year. That happens to be done at the budgetary hearing which happens around Oct/Nov. every year. I do not think any magistrate would take such drastic action to prevent funds from being sent to the Eagle, but I do view it as a possibility which should be looked into.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8328 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Ave Propraetor,

If you wanted to help your boss help him with his language skills in drafting items of importance like Vetos.

Do not get upset at a citizen voicing satire at the expense of the Consul. This type of thing has happened every year since NR has been founded and will continue long after Consul Fabius is no longer in office.

So instead of putting a citizen down, use your role as a staff member of Consul Fabius and proof his posts before he sends them out to the ML.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:17 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


Gaius Basilicatus Agricola writes:

> The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves
> a decison that involves a decision that The Senate is at the
> moment discussing.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

I remind you of your oath of office sir. You have chosen to mock
a Consular veto. You knew full well from the subject line that it
was a Consular veto when you did so.

Would you, if arguing before the Supreme Court, make a mockery of
some awkward wording by the Chief Justice? Or make a mockery of
the President of the United States when he is speaking in his
official capacity? Our Consuls are our highest magistrates vested
with Imperium, and you have chosen to mock a Consular veto.

By your oath as Legatus you are sworn to uphold the honor of
Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people
and the Senate of Nova Roma. Your mockery of the Senior Consul
is an insult not only to our republic, but to your word as a
magistrate, and as a Roman citizen.

I deplore you sir.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8329 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> If a magistrate attempted that he would need a
> majority of the Tribunes of the Plebs at his beck and
> call because that action would be a clear violation of
> Section II B 4 of the Constitution.
>
Salve,

You're correct, but I don't see a Tribunal "override" of another
magistrate's intercesso being likely to happen unless it were a
matter of grave importance.

Reason one: Given the nature of politic climates where the dominant
political view of the moment tends to be shared by a majority of
elected magistrates (this is true macro nationally as well as Nova
Roma) its likely as not a majority of the Tribunes would be of the
same political persuasion as the official issuing the intercesso.

Reason two: Given the precedent during the Gens Reform flap of
Tribunes NOT overriding another magistrate's intercesso, I would
hardly be assured that the Tribunes would override another
magistrate's intercesso in a matter of far less importance and
divisiveness such as funding The Eagle.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8330 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Avete Omnes,

Just let me state that I also agree with the sentiments of Senator Lucius Sicinius Drusus. There is no reason to resign. You cannot win every battle. Don't let the actions of a few higher magistrates damage your dignitas by resigning. Show the People that you will continue to abide by your Oath.

Continue developing the Eagle, the People will appreciate it and respect you more and in the end your dignitas will increase!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Stephen Gallagher
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:01 PM
Subject: Fw: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


I second the opinion of L. Sicinius Drusus. You are obviously sincere in the execution of your duties, as indicated by the passionate defense of your actions, posted to this group, and Nova Roma would be much the poorer for your loss.

Vale, Lucius

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"



--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
SNIP
>
> If at anytime you, your colleague or the Senate feel
> that I am not the person to serve as Curator
> Differum please have the decency to ask for my
> resignation.

Tiberius Galerius,

I for one would hate to see you leave your office. You
have been the most energetic Curator we have had in
some time. We need more people like you. I really did
like your idea to finance the Eagle, and I will do
what I can in assisting you in bringing it about.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8331 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>"
<richmal@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius
> Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > If a magistrate attempted that he would need a
> > majority of the Tribunes of the Plebs at his beck
> and
> > call because that action would be a clear
> violation of
> > Section II B 4 of the Constitution.
> >
> Salve,
>
> You're correct, but I don't see a Tribunal
> "override" of another
> magistrate's intercesso being likely to happen
> unless it were a
> matter of grave importance.
>
> Reason one: Given the nature of politic climates
> where the dominant
> political view of the moment tends to be shared by a
> majority of
> elected magistrates (this is true macro nationally
> as well as Nova
> Roma) its likely as not a majority of the Tribunes
> would be of the
> same political persuasion as the official issuing
> the intercesso.
>
> Reason two: Given the precedent during the Gens
> Reform flap of
> Tribunes NOT overriding another magistrate's
> intercesso, I would
> hardly be assured that the Tribunes would override
> another
> magistrate's intercesso in a matter of far less
> importance and
> divisiveness such as funding The Eagle.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
The Veto during the Gens debate was Legal. The Consuls
have the right to Veto based on policy. The Tribunes
Veto is different. They are charged with looking at
the legality of an action, not at the question of
agreeing or dis agreeing with the policy. As long as a
Consular action dosen't violate the law or the
Constitution the Tribunes are powerless to veto it no
matter how strongly they disagree with it.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8332 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
L. Cornelius Sulla writes:

[concerning my rebuke addressed to Legatus Agricola]

> Ave Propraetor,
>
> If you wanted to help your boss help him with his language skills
> in drafting items of importance like Vetos.

Had the Senior Consul asked his advisors for any help or assistance
in drafting that veto, I'd gladly have provided such, Consular.
As I mentioned last night, I'd have offered certain other advice had
it been asked too. But as far as I know the Senior Consul acted
entirely on his own in this matter, as is his perogative.

> Do not get upset at a citizen voicing satire at the expense of the
> Consul.

A privatus citizen is welcome to voice all the satire he may wish.
In this case I took issue with an oath sworn magistrate clearly
disregarding his oath "to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma." While it's entirely
appropriate for another magistrate to question a veto, mockery
falls outside the bounds of supporting our republic.

That oath binds me, it binds you, and it binds the Legatus, though
he seems to have forgotten.

> So instead of putting a citizen down, use your role as a staff
> member of Consul Fabius and proof his posts before he sends them
> out to the ML.

That's not how Consul Fabius uses his staff, Consular. We don't
preapprove his posts to this or any other list.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8333 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Get ready to vote in the election!
Salvete Plebeian citizens!

Just a quick reminder that the voting for the 2 open positions of Tribune
will begin within the hour at 18:01 Roman time, 12:01 noon EST and 9:00 am
Pacific Time. To the people in other time zones: sorry that I didn't include
yours!

Below is an email I wrote before the last run-off. New citizens should read
it!

Why is this vote important? Because the Tribunes represent you in the
government of Nova Roma!

What does a Tribune do? Very simply put:

1)The Tribunes need to know the Constitution of Nova Roma and her laws to
make sure that no new laws are passed that are unconstitutional. The
Tribunes keep an eye on the big boys (the Senate, the Consuls, or any other
magistrate :-))), so that the rights of the people are not compromised. The
Tribunes have the right of vetoing the actions of any other magistrate, but
in order to actually veto something, the majority of the Tribunes have to be
in agreement. This is why 5 Tribunes are necessary: we also need a 'balance
of power' within the Tribunate itself.

2) The Tribunes can also propose new laws, which will then be voted upon by
all of the citizens of Nova Roma. Two of last year's Tribunes, Gnaeus Salix
Astur and Marcus Arminius Maior were quite active in this area.

3) The Tribunes also report what is being discussed in the Senate. Tribune
Marcus Marcius Rex will be posting the second Senate report of 2756 within
a week or so.

4) The Tribunes also organize the elections for the Plebeian offices
(Plebeian Aediles and Tribunes of the Plebs), which is why I am sending you
this email :-) It's time to vote for your favorite Tribune candidate!

5) And if any of the citizens are having any Nova Roma troubles, the
Tribunes are always available to help.

And lastly, on behalf of this year's current Tribunes, the best of luck to
the 4 candidates in this run-off election. We look forward to welcoming 2 of
you to the team!

Valete,

Diana Moravia Aventina

Tribunus Plebis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8334 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Avete Omnes,
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:54 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


L. Cornelius Sulla writes:

[concerning my rebuke addressed to Legatus Agricola]

> Ave Propraetor,
>
> If you wanted to help your boss help him with his language skills
> in drafting items of importance like Vetos.

Had the Senior Consul asked his advisors for any help or assistance
in drafting that veto, I'd gladly have provided such, Consular.
As I mentioned last night, I'd have offered certain other advice had
it been asked too. But as far as I know the Senior Consul acted
entirely on his own in this matter, as is his perogative.

Sulla: Then the blame lies soley with the Senior Consul. Doesn't it?
> Do not get upset at a citizen voicing satire at the expense of the
> Consul.

A privatus citizen is welcome to voice all the satire he may wish.
In this case I took issue with an oath sworn magistrate clearly
disregarding his oath "to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma." While it's entirely
appropriate for another magistrate to question a veto, mockery
falls outside the bounds of supporting our republic.

That oath binds me, it binds you, and it binds the Legatus, though
he seems to have forgotten.

Sulla: I have taken an Oath too, many times....and it has never precluded me from speaking my mind in the event that I disagree with a magistrate. Just as in the examples you have posted above, our ex-Presidents are willing to criticize the current sitting President. Beyond that fact, our constitution allows Legatus Agricola the ability to speak his mind, and he chose to do so. Consul Fabius is not the State. He is a representative of the State, not immune from criticism or satire.

> So instead of putting a citizen down, use your role as a staff
> member of Consul Fabius and proof his posts before he sends them
> out to the ML.

That's not how Consul Fabius uses his staff, Consular. We don't
preapprove his posts to this or any other list.

Sulla: Then maybe he should re-evaulate the needs and responsibilities of his staff in an effort to prevent more criticisms of his posts.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8335 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salvete Romani:

The honorable Quintus raises a valid point. May I make a suggestion? Would the establishment of an editorial board, similar to that of most major newspapers, resolve this issue to the satisfaction of the honorable Quintus? Such a board would ensure that the conservatives/liberals would not use the Eagle as a vehicle for partisan propaganda and we could stop wallowing in trifles and make the paper a going concern.

Would such a proposition find support in the Senate? Please, Senators, I welcome your input. Also, I would most certainly welcome the opinions of the honorable Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8336 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salvete Romani!

May I make a suggestion? Re: the Eagle, could we establish an editorial board, similar to that of most major newspapers? This would address the honorable Quintus' concerns that the paper could become a vehicle for conservative/liberal views. C'mon, guys (gals), let's set pretension aside, be practical, and make this a going concern!

I'd appreciate the views of the honorable Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

Valete

(as unpretentiously as possible) L. Suetonius Nerva



----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8337 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Avete Omnes,

I think in the future this will be a good idea. But if I recall correctly the Eagle only has about 60 subscribers and it just simply would not be neccessary to create additional bureaucracy.

Remember we have yet to do the Census. That will probably drop our Roles to somewhere around 300-400 true citizens.

I think that we should add this into the "plan" that Legatus Agricola and others are discussing on the Sesterius list as a possible objective to achieve.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


Salvete Romani:

The honorable Quintus raises a valid point. May I make a suggestion? Would the establishment of an editorial board, similar to that of most major newspapers, resolve this issue to the satisfaction of the honorable Quintus? Such a board would ensure that the conservatives/liberals would not use the Eagle as a vehicle for partisan propaganda and we could stop wallowing in trifles and make the paper a going concern.

Would such a proposition find support in the Senate? Please, Senators, I welcome your input. Also, I would most certainly welcome the opinions of the honorable Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8338 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve Senator Corneli,

> Had the Senior Consul asked his advisors for any help or assistance
> in drafting that veto, I'd gladly have provided such, Consular.

> Sulla: Then the blame lies soley with the Senior Consul. Doesn't it?

"blame"? An odd choice of words, considering that Consul Fabius has
done absolutely nothing wrong, shameful, undignified, or inappropriate.
It would be more appropriate to say that the "credit" for the veto
belongs solely to the Senior Consul.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8339 From: Lucius Mauricius Procopious Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Return
Salvete Omnes!
I have my affairs in order to the point that I am now prepared to re-
appear here in Nova Roma. I hope that you will allow me to apologize
for my lack of participation the last few months of my terms as
Propraetor and Tribune. I kept my eye on the Tribunes list and the
Provincial list in case of emergency but did not participate. Please
accept my assurance that my personal life was in disorder to the
point that I was no longer a functional asset for Nova Roma. I have
been able to restore enough order to my life that I have the
resources to continue my participation in our great nation. I have
been honored by my propraetrix beyond what I deserve in her offer of
a legate-ship. I accept and hope this is an oportunity for me to make
amends for "dropping the ball" at the end of my service. Thank you
for this chance to serve.

I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of Julilla Sempronia Magna while I hold this office, except
when such action would be illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) further swear to
fulfill the obligations and Rresponsibilities of the office of
Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior:Regio I - Vasintonia
Boreoccidentalis to the best of my abilities while following the
Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) swear to give faithful
service to my magistrate, and not to divulge any information
discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the
discretion of my magistrate. On my honor as a Citizen of Nova
Roma,and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of
Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior: Regio I - Vasintonia
Boreoccidentalis with all the privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.


Given under my hand A.D. X Kal. Martias MMDCCLVI
AUC in the
Consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus
Labienus Fortunatus.


Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior
Regio I - Vasintonia Boreoccidentalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8340 From: bradley Skene Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Testament of Malkhos
I was raised in some vague offshoot of the Protestant sect founded by John Calvin. My parents rarely attended the services, certianly did not beleive in it, but sent me for some years to the Sunday School, where I was taught pathetic theology and philosophy by pathetic men and women.

By the time I was 9 years old I had determined that the proper course to follow was that of materialist atheism. But at the same time I was filled with curiosity to find out the truth, the truth that lay behind what little I had been shown of the spiritual world (I seemd to know by some instinct that there was something more), the truth that would expose the falseness and insufficency of those who had failedto teach me.

In college I set out to take the courses for chemical engineering, since that seemed an advantageous profession, and one suited to a scientifically mindied atheist. But I also took history courses becuase I was intersted in them. I soon found that I had such a monomania for historical research that I was reading historical texts even while actually attending the chemistry lectures. I changed the course of my studies to conform to the new my new view of reality. I determined to fix on the Renaissance since the kindly and jovial personality of my teacher in that field, Willaim Maltby, had made a tremendous impression on me. Also the figures that I studied, the Kings and Generals of the Catholic Renaissance--Charles V, Philip II, Don Juan of Austria, The Dukes of Alba and Parma--seemed admirable to me because of their unswavering devotion to purity of doctrine; however much in error I beleived them to be: their faith impressed me.

Then I read Plato.

On his teaching he seemed as if he were showing my own thoughts to me, thoughts which were nobler and finer than any I had ever had, but which were living unkown within me. And the substance of his teaching explained why this was so: he was merely revealing the substance our own divine natures, which the prison house of the body kept us form seeing. I still did not yet believe him, but I recognized that here at last was what lay beneath Christianity and everything else I had been seeking after--I still took this not in a spiritual sense, but in the sense of historical causation.

I knew that Plato was what I had to study, but in the Renaissance, his philosophy had become very fractured: Hermeticism, Kabbalah of various sorts, sufism, magic. The life's work (and he had a very short life) of the greatest philosopher of the period, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, Prince of Concord, was to attempt to call together a Grand council of Christian, Jewish, and Islamic theologians, to create a new faith unifying all three on the basis of their common Neoplatonic theology. I determined that I would write as my Ph.D. dissertaion a translation and commentary of the program he had prepared for the conference (never called becuase the Pope put him under house arrest rather than permit it)--900 theses for debate and a plenary address: The Oration on the Dignity of Man (a poject which I did not then, but will someday, complete). Obviously I would haveto know Latin, and as I had started my historical studies quite late, I took an MA in Classics.

Once I could read Greek, and had read Plato, and the New Testament, and Sophocles, and Homer, and many other works in Greek, it was farewell to the Renaissance.

It was also farwell to atheism. It slowly dawned on me that to think and believe as Plato had done increased rather than lessened my dignity, so I did so, but as a philosophy only, not yet as a faith, except as a pose in debate with my fellow Ph.D. candidates, either atheists, Christians so far lapsed into hedonism and indiffernce that they were nothing Augustine or Paul would have recognized, or Fundamentalists preachers, gaining a real degree in Greek so that they could teach at their sectarian seminaries.

My sympathies veered toward Gnosticism at this time. The translation of Plato's teachings into a more mythic form, a form expressed in the myths of the semitic peoples (and I do not mean only Judaism--once one becomes acainted with the mytholgoiesof Babylon and Ugarit everything about judiam is seen in a new light and takes on a new meaning) seemed perilously beautiful. Here at last, knowledge began to transform into belief. It will come as no suprise to anyone reading this that every human life is filled with suffering, and all the more so those lives cut off from spiritual refreshment. I certainly had my share--I mean the interior pain of lonliness, isolation and exile, too dull and pervasive for most to percieve under its proper name. It finally occured to me that the Grace of the Wisdom of God was meant heal this, and as best as I am able to tell, even now many years later, that is what happened to me in a moment of revelation. I can still recall the exact instant it happened. I seemed to be filled up with a new life, infinitely greater and more spelndid than the one I had known. It is a cliche to say the experince cannot be expailned in words, but I can offer you this much idea of it: go and listen to the Pilgrim's Chorus from Wagner's Tannhauser and imagine feeling the way that sounds. I happend to have been in a coffe house talking to a girl at the time, and I mistakenly thought that I had fallen in love with her! It was the same kind of experience. I no longer recognize in memories from before that time the person I was.

Shortly before this I had undergone a surgery which was badly botched and almost died. I realized then that I had to go and pour a libation of thanksgiving to the Gods for having preserved my life for that moment, the moment when I realized I was of the same religion as Plato, Iamblichus, Julian and Proclus.

I have never encountered anyone else who shares this faith, certianly not in the profession of Classics, the very people who are trained to best udnerstand these matters, at least outwardly. That is why I met with honest joy the Nova Roma movement, of which I became aware only a few days ago now. When I read on the Julian Society list that someone in the world is planning to make a temple to Hekate, and already has a cult statue, I quite literally wept, and became excited and exhilirated at the thought of perfoming sacrifice there, something I have never done, and which I never thought it would be possible to do. I still, obviously have much to learn about you, and hopefully in dialog with you, but I thought the best wat to proceed would be to introduce myself in the way that I have, especially in view of the fact that when the Gods save us, they also command us to leave testimony to the fact in their houses. This list is not a temple, but it may be a start.

I have one more thing to testify to.

I am married to a woman named Rita (not the girl mentioned above), who is a Roman Catholic, of extremly traditonal tastes and orthodox leanings--a position I once toyed with, but know now I can never assume. Last year she concieved our daughter Sophia, who died in the womb one day before labor was going to be induced (a fatal blood-clot formed in the placenta--the poor thing was perfectly well up until the last moment and then died, probably in the space of only a minute). You can imagine how shattering this was, especially for Rita--I have prepared myself for suffering through the intensive study of philosophy, but this tested my indiffernce and reserve, Rita, however, is possessed of an innocence that is indescribably beautiful, but left her terrbily vulnerable. I feared for her sanity. Rita went through all the rituals of aid and comfort presrcibed by her Church. I prayed to Apollo that he might save my wife and child, and vowed to repay him as best I could. Now just over a year later Rita seems restored (and she is pregnant again with a boy I hope to name Julian) and I have every faith that Sophia is in as blessed a state as she may be. It would be easy to say that time heals all wounds, I have decided (and I do not decive myself that faith is not in some sense and existential decision--asfter all we do live in the modern world) that the proposition that I and my family expereince the Grace of Apollo is a more meaningful description. Since that time I honoured the God with libations, and have done and will libate and leave a offering of flowers on Sophia's grave each year on the Rosalia (last year the first day that Rita could bear to return to the cemetary after the funeral).

This brings up some ciritcal problems that I feel I have to address, not by dogmatic statements that I have no authority to make, but in discussion with the members of this list whom i hope believe as I do.

The proper recompense I owe to Apollo is sacrifice. The reasons I have not yet done so are deeply troubling to me, and I think must be considered seriously by anyone who loves the gods.

First let me say something further about my studies. I have completed all of the course work for a Ph.D. in classics, and am a specialist in Neoplatonism and Greek magic. For personal reasons that have been partly alluded to above, I am on hiatus from a formal degree program, but have been working as a Greek instructor. I have published articles and reviews in these fields in peer-reviewd journals, and will have a spate of new articles published at the end of next summer. I have a draft of a dissertation dealing with Iamblichus' dialog with Christianity in his Pythagorean Life (the on-line name I use, Malkhos, was the given name of the Neoplatonist Porphyry, a man of Semitic cultural origin). I do not think of myself in any way as a hemicaust crack-pot, but I know that if most classicists read what I have written here, they would be dismissive.

I am now going to raise a series of objections that I feel have to be answered, and which, if the answers are going to be meaningful have to be answered together, not just by me and my own reason. I do not mean to be a smart ass or to offend anyone's beleifs. But the Socratic method of finding the truth employs discussion, and I feel strongly that the points I will make are the ones that are going to have to be discussed if any kind of resurrection of ancient religion is to be made, as I fervently hope it can. I know that some 'pagan' lists I have looked at go so far as to say that if you criticize anyone's beliefs you will be banned from the list. I never said anything about it but just left, because I took it as a signal that the people were not serious. If you seriously believe something, your belief can sustain criticism. There also seemed little point in believing in soemthing that you either did not care to defend, or tacitly admitted was indefensible.

1. In Antiquity religion was a communal act: the very word means 'binding together' and it was the force that bound the city into a sacred whole. Corespondingly, the exercise of religion depended on the common practice of all citizens together. Anyone who purseued a strange religion or practiced reilgious ritual for private inscrutible ends was liable to charges of superstition and magic. The very indictment agianst Socrates charged him with worshipping Gods other than the city's. If you had approached someone in antiquity, even a priest or philsopher, and asked him how his religion could be sustained in a state that was secular and atheistic, he would have told you it could not. A specific cult had been established by the Gods, wither in prehsitory or through divination or revelation and its existence depended on its communal suport nad its continuous operation. If it ever ceased to exist or operate, this was a further sign from the gods that that cult should end. For example, the cult of Jupiter Dolinecheas was in late antiquity almost as popular throughout the Roman Empire as the worship of Mithras, but, once the Persians sacked and burned the temple at Dolinecheum, it was abandoned everywhere else on the grounds that if a God was too weak to defend his own temple, what good was he. This kind of reasoning applied to individual cults; no ancient person could have imagined all cults ceasing silmultaneously (until it happened), or how the whole aparatus could be revived after 1500 years of lapse of worhsip. At one time I considered converting to Parsism, the last remnant of the ancient Zoroastrian religion (still surviving among Iranian emingrants in India and spread from there recetly to a few other places around the world) and the last trace of any ancient religin not related to Judeo-Christianity. But they don't accept converts; they want to protect the purity of their unbroken tradition by limiting it to ethnic Iranians, and I can't blame them. But, and here is the question, how can we say we follow a religion based in tradition after so long a cesation of tradition? Obviously we must find some way. I trust that it can be some way other than to invent a buch of fraudulent nonsense offensive to reason, as the Wiccans, Theosophists, Druids, and others have done. I feel strongly that only way is to revive the ancient cults in the purest possible form (which is why I felt also trememdous relief when I saw the photos of the cult image of Hekate posted here--it looks like a real cult image, not like a hollywood or kitsch idea of a cult image). The revival of cultic practice per se, is not really so diffcult, though it would take much work, the problem is finding a theological justification or explanation to bridge those lost 15 centuries. The best hope I can see comes from Iamblichus, whose theurgic doctrines form a link between ordianry cultic practice and the essentially private religious practices that we would be forced to today. I expect I will have rather more to say about that later, if my contributions turn out to be welcome here. Indeed the only reason I am writing now, is becuase reading the De mysteriis has recently made my own thinking on this subject much more flexible.

As I find out more about Nova Roma, it seems as if it is attempting to provide a viable platform for sacrifice.

2. I don't know what the attitude here is toward the word 'pagan', but I will venture to offer my own opinion. In antiquity paganus was someone from the countryside, someone likely to be unsophsiticated, ignornat, old-fashioned: a hill-billy or red-neck. The church fathers had the brillant idea of applying this term to anyone they suppsoed lacked the wisdom and sophsitication to convert ot Christinaity, who insisted on adhereing to what Christians considered an out-moded form of religion. Becuase of this historical etymology, classicsits have not for a long time now not refered to Graeco-Roman religion as 'paganism.' I certianly will never use this term to refer to myself, and think any one else who wanted to revivie non-Judaeo-Christian reigion would be wise to do likewise. In my view we should use the same kind of formualtions found in Julian and other ancient writers who were first faced with defining as particular what had been universal. In controversy with Christians, Julian most often refered to himself as a Greek; probably we would more like say Roman. We should say that we follow the faith of our ancestors, that we worship the Gods, or that we are pious.

3. The revival of ancient religion is always going to seem mad and pointless to the mass of soceity, whther they are Christians, Atheists, or whatever. For example, I have already seen the Julian Society ridiculed on an American Philogoical Association list, supposedly for the lack of learning displayed in some Web article or annoucnement the author had seen, although it was clear he had not invenstigated the matter clsoely enough to form an accurate judgement; the derision was reflexive. For this reason, I think anyone attempting such a revival has to be absolutely beyond reproach in terms of intellectual, aesthetic, and moral legitimacy--as one would be any way who followed the ancient traditions. There are a few obvious errors that could easily be avoided. a. Anyone who has read Plato knows that the creation myth in the Timaeus and his various allusions to Atlantis are what we would call today thought experiments--he never intended them to become dogmatic articles of faith. So there would be no reason, for example, for any follower of Plato to act in a manner similar to many American Indians and Christian fundamentialsits and deny Evolution--one should also bear in mind all of the damage done to the popualr opinion of Americna Indian religion by the interfernce by some Indians in the name of that religion in archaeological and other scientific research. b.Thomas Taylor seems to have a good reputation here, and I can see why, since his aim is the same as ours; personally I have a great deal of affection and sympathy for him. But he made himself look ridiculous by, for example, denying the validity even of Newtonian phyiscs, even of Galileo's observations of craters on the moon and the moons of Jupiter (see previous item). Also his Greek was very bad, and his translations give a very imperfect idea of the texts he was dealing with. Since all of the important books he translated have been given modern schoalrly versions, some of them quite recently (I may well post a bibliographical list here, if anyone is intrested). There is absolutely no need to rely for our knwoledge of ancient religious texts on Taylor's translations, nor for our interpretation and understanding of them on figures of nebulous learning, and possesed of mtoives and agendas that have nothing to do with ancient traditions: e.g. G.R.S. Meade, MacGregor Mathers, A.E. Waite; Mme. Blavatsky, Alester Crowley. Jung, Kerenyi, and von Franz, Joseph Campbell, etc. We should instead read: Plato, Plutarch, Pausanius, Julian, Homer, Sophocles, etc. with as little imtermediation as possible.

4. Many modern people have been loyal to the Gods wither more or less openly or in their hearts, but lacking any integrated structure of traditional worship, remained isolated and alienated in this regard. If these persons have also attained the greatest intellectual and artistic acheivements, they are the ones whose examples we should follow and make known to others. Good examples of this sort of person would be: Goethe, Keats, Wagner.

I hope I have seemed too overbearing or bombastic. I have merely set forth what I believe, and how I intend to act. I hope to find here at least a few of similar mind. If you find what I have said provocative, I hope you are stimualted to discussion.

I have for a long time now considered myself a Roman rather than an American or anything else, and so am disposed to join Nova Roma, but would appreciate some response from civites or magistrates, or memebers of the Julian list, whethery they consider my motives and intentions compatible with theirs.

warmest regards,

Malkhos





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8341 From: Christopher Mortimer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: My first vote
I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8342 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Your typical 2 cents worth. Go back to attending your website of self
glorification, fuzzy bear.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What Latin word can I use for pound that was used
in ancient Rome?


On Sun, Feb 23, 2003 at 02:13:19PM -0600, jlasalle wrote:
> "'Something like that' is in the general area, yes. I presume this is an
> indication of your extensive education that you keep telling us about?"
>
> Thats off the top of my head. I learned latin in college and I don't
> speak it everyday. Stop presuming anything about me.

And the reason you think I would listen to your maunderings phrased as
orders is?... You have no influence on what I do, and no way to gain
any. Feel free to puff and blow, though; you can't make yourself look
any more foolish than you already have - it's simply not possible.

> Evidently you must be off
> moderated status, judging from your long, welcome silence.

Your preoccupation with moderated status seems quite apropos. Did your
Nursey tell you to go stand in the corner this past week for being a bad
boy and give you a complex? In fact, I would have expected the list
moderators to kick you off a long time ago, but I suspect they don't
want to soil their shoes.

> Ordinarily you
> are sane, but it appears you have lucid moments when you are only
stupid.

Why, thank you; it must be lucidity indeed if even a gormless wad of
pseudo-sentient protoplasm like you manages to recognize it. You,
unfortunately, have *no* lucid moments: the regurgitated vomitus you
spout is, without doubt, the most uniformly boringly senseless droning
I've ever heard (although it _is_ highly reminiscent of cow flatus in
tone and content.) Is there some Git-to-English dictionary people should
use to read you, or is it a lost cause (as I firmly believe) from the
start?

> "Why don't you first give us all an example by donating 10% of all your
> profits to Nova Roma, and stop badgering others until you do?"
>
> I don't need NR or any of its citizens

Believe me, neither NR nor any of its citizens need you any more than
they need septicemia. Oh, wait - I'm being unkind to virulent
microorganisms by comparing them with you: they poison their host system
*quietly*...

> , least of all your rotten malice, to

<smile> Try not to project your own attitudes onto other people. The
twisting psychedelic fog of your drug haze will still remain, but there
will be at least _one_ tiny clear window onto the world in the loony bin
of what you laughably term your mind.

> practice law. Therefore, I owe nothing to NR from my private life,
except
> what the SPQR asks. Citizens, whose only purpose here, is to leech
> information for use in private endeavors and personal profit should have
the
> courtesy to offer compensation, instead of acting the shamless parasite.

Ah - so now you're going to rate cives by your own scale, and you're
going to enforce your rating by attacking those who don't pass your
inspection. Is there a magistrate here who would care to speak to this
issue - to this criminal practice of prejudice-driven violence?

> So, I ask you real nice, to lay off.

<laugh> Your understanding of "nice" must be fascinating to
xenobiologists. Feel free to post again when you've learned to speak a
human language; until then, go play in your sandpile.

> I'm sure biojournalism can answer my
> "badgering" herself.

The point is, why should anyone here have to? Nova Roma is not a place
where cives should have to defend themselves from badgering and whining
demands for money by random self-inflated windbags.

> Your incessant inanities are tiresome. I'd call you a
> sadistic, hippophilic necrophile, but that would be beating a dead
horse.

<Yawn> Did you have to search the Internet for a long time to find that?
Good grief, you couldn't find anyone better to steal from than Woody
Allen... that's _really_ scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Poor thing, whatever shred of originality you may have once had has
rotted away in your leech-like, blood-sucking pursuits. Go on - I _dare_
you to come up with an original insult. Take a year; take several.
HINT: It takes *wit*, which you do not possess and have no way to steal
from your poor deluded clients' wallets. It may be possible to fake
intelligence for a time - you did for a bit, even though the level has
consistently been abysmally low - but you can't fake wit. Keep trying,
though - you're half-way there.

> I look foreward to your next e-mail, as they are always good for a
laugh. I
> might even read it.

Whether or not you read it - or, more precisely, have it read to you,
since your loose-lipped vacuity precludes the possibility of your being
able to read - is of no concern to me. All I'm interested in is warning
other Nova Romani that a pile of you is lying in the road so they don't
step in it.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt.
The sky, and not his soul, changes the one who runs across the sea.
-- Horace, "Epistulae"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8343 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salvete Romani!

May I make a suggestion re: the Eagle? Would it be possible to establish an editorial board, similar to that of most major newspapers? This would address the concerns of Quintus Cassius that the Eagle, if properly financed, would become a partisan vehicle. C'mon guys (and gals), if we want to make the paper a going concern, we've got to get past all the pretension, and get on with it.

I'd certainly welcome the views of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus on this issue.

Valete

(as unpretentiously as possible), L. Suetonius Nerva


----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8344 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Ave

Nerva has summed it up nicely. It appears as if Tiberius was sandbagged.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walzer [mailto:jwalzer5@...]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:44 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Stephen Gallagher
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your
Patronage"


Salvete:

Although I acknowledge your authority in this area, there is no excuse
for your not making your position known sooner. Such a decision has caused
unconscionable embarrasment to the Honorable Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

In accordance with Section V. B. 2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, I
propose that the Senate clarify and, once and for all, codify, in a manner
understandable to the citizenry of Nova Roma, the vital issue of taxation:
how and in what manner it should be assesed and collected. This a grey area
that needs to be addressed if we are ever to be a viable entity.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva


----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 6:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


Salve Illustrus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!

I acknowledge the ambitions that You have when it comes to the Eagle,
this is well and good, but it is the Senate that takes all decisons
about the budget according to the Constitution V. B.

Because of the present discussion in the Senate about a modification
of the Budget where the Eagle is one of the main issues I must VETO
item 3. (below) in your latest message according to the power given
to me by the Constitution IV A. 2. d.

The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves a
decison about such longtime undertakings and it would be to
anticipate the decision of the Senate to allow such a project on your
part.

>3. After some brainstorming on finances the staff and I have
>rediscovered the time honored ROMAN TRADITION OF PATRONS
>
>If you would like to be listed in the EAGLE as a Patron all you have
>to do is pick from the following Levels and send in your check.
>
>Clines (client) Level I 50.00
Donation
>Cultor (fosterner) Level II 125.00
Donation
>Amicus (friend) Level III 250.00
Donation
>Comes (partner) Level IV 400.00 Donation
>Patronus (patron) Level V 500.00 Donation
>
>"What do I get if I am a Patron of the Eagle", you ask? Good question
>
>If you sign up for the Clines level you will receive
>One year subscription to the Eagle and your name on the Patron Page.
>
>If you sign up for the Cultor Level you will receive a two years
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level.
>
>If you sign up for the Amicus Level you will receive a two year
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle mug
>naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people"
>
>If you sign up for the Comes Level you will receive a two year
>subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle patron
>mug naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people" and a
>special drawing of the Nova Roma Eagle SPQR symbol by the Eagle's
>resident artist.
>
>If you sign up for the Patronus Level V you will receive a three
>year subscription to the Eagle, your name on the Patron Page and a
>special certificate on your patron level and a Special Eagle patron
>mug naming you " a friend and ally of the Roman people" and a
>special self portrait by the Eagle's resident artist and an issue
>dedicated to YOU
>
>Vale
>
>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>Curator Differum

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8345 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
It shouldn't be tolerated. Don't let that scare you off. If you voice a
strong opinion here, you're likely to draw out some psychotic shut-in
linux-hermit who has nothing better to do than write vitriolic e-mails. It
just goes with the internet. The vast majority of citizens are intelligent,
kind, and truly good at heart.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: malkhos <malkhos@...> [mailto:malkhos@...]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used
in ancient Rome?


The answer to the immediate question in libera; and it is not
surprising that it has caused some uncertianity, althought it must
have been a common word and has well known Romances descendents
(livre in French; the stylized 'L' monogram used to denoted the
British pound) it was not a common literary word: it does not, I
beleive occur in Lewis' Elementary, but is the first defintion given
in the OLD.

More widely, however, I have just discovered Nova Roma and am greatly
intersted in joining, but I have been for a few days monitoring the
posts here and on some of the other lists. The string of replies to
this rather innocent question contians appaling bitterness; and I
have seen simialr bad manners elsewhere. Is this sort of thing common
here? If so, why is it tolerated?

Malkhos


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism
<biojournalism@h...>" <biojournalism@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Can someone tell me the Roman (Latin) word for measuring by the
> pound? Sample sentence, "Masinissa wants 5,000 pounds of gold,
3,000
> pounds of pepper, 30,000 pounds of silver and 4,000 tunics of silk."
> What word can I substitute for pound to mean a similar unit of
> measurement such as a pound of silver or a pound of beans? My novel
> takes place 150 BCE in Rome and with Cato and Scipio in Numidia.
>
>
> Octavia



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8346 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Testament of Malkhos
An interesting journey. My condolences to you for your lost daughter. I've
always considered the pantheon of Greco_Roman Gods to represent the full
spectrum of human existence, emotion, logic, and experience. And much more
sensible than Christianity.

to gar autou noien estin te kai enai

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: bradley Skene [mailto:malkhos@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:48 AM
To: JulianSociety@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Testament of Malkhos



I was raised in some vague offshoot of the Protestant sect founded by John
Calvin. My parents rarely attended the services, certianly did not beleive
in it, but sent me for some years to the Sunday School, where I was taught
pathetic theology and philosophy by pathetic men and women.

By the time I was 9 years old I had determined that the proper course to
follow was that of materialist atheism. But at the same time I was filled
with curiosity to find out the truth, the truth that lay behind what little
I had been shown of the spiritual world (I seemd to know by some instinct
that there was something more), the truth that would expose the falseness
and insufficency of those who had failedto teach me.

In college I set out to take the courses for chemical engineering, since
that seemed an advantageous profession, and one suited to a scientifically
mindied atheist. But I also took history courses becuase I was intersted in
them. I soon found that I had such a monomania for historical research that
I was reading historical texts even while actually attending the chemistry
lectures. I changed the course of my studies to conform to the new my new
view of reality. I determined to fix on the Renaissance since the kindly and
jovial personality of my teacher in that field, Willaim Maltby, had made a
tremendous impression on me. Also the figures that I studied, the Kings and
Generals of the Catholic Renaissance--Charles V, Philip II, Don Juan of
Austria, The Dukes of Alba and Parma--seemed admirable to me because of
their unswavering devotion to purity of doctrine; however much in error I
beleived them to be: their faith impressed me.

Then I read Plato.

On his teaching he seemed as if he were showing my own thoughts to me,
thoughts which were nobler and finer than any I had ever had, but which were
living unkown within me. And the substance of his teaching explained why
this was so: he was merely revealing the substance our own divine natures,
which the prison house of the body kept us form seeing. I still did not yet
believe him, but I recognized that here at last was what lay beneath
Christianity and everything else I had been seeking after--I still took this
not in a spiritual sense, but in the sense of historical causation.

I knew that Plato was what I had to study, but in the Renaissance, his
philosophy had become very fractured: Hermeticism, Kabbalah of various
sorts, sufism, magic. The life's work (and he had a very short life) of the
greatest philosopher of the period, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, Prince of
Concord, was to attempt to call together a Grand council of Christian,
Jewish, and Islamic theologians, to create a new faith unifying all three on
the basis of their common Neoplatonic theology. I determined that I would
write as my Ph.D. dissertaion a translation and commentary of the program he
had prepared for the conference (never called becuase the Pope put him under
house arrest rather than permit it)--900 theses for debate and a plenary
address: The Oration on the Dignity of Man (a poject which I did not then,
but will someday, complete). Obviously I would haveto know Latin, and as I
had started my historical studies quite late, I took an MA in Classics.

Once I could read Greek, and had read Plato, and the New Testament, and
Sophocles, and Homer, and many other works in Greek, it was farewell to the
Renaissance.

It was also farwell to atheism. It slowly dawned on me that to think and
believe as Plato had done increased rather than lessened my dignity, so I
did so, but as a philosophy only, not yet as a faith, except as a pose in
debate with my fellow Ph.D. candidates, either atheists, Christians so far
lapsed into hedonism and indiffernce that they were nothing Augustine or
Paul would have recognized, or Fundamentalists preachers, gaining a real
degree in Greek so that they could teach at their sectarian seminaries.

My sympathies veered toward Gnosticism at this time. The translation of
Plato's teachings into a more mythic form, a form expressed in the myths of
the semitic peoples (and I do not mean only Judaism--once one becomes
acainted with the mytholgoiesof Babylon and Ugarit everything about judiam
is seen in a new light and takes on a new meaning) seemed perilously
beautiful. Here at last, knowledge began to transform into belief. It will
come as no suprise to anyone reading this that every human life is filled
with suffering, and all the more so those lives cut off from spiritual
refreshment. I certainly had my share--I mean the interior pain of
lonliness, isolation and exile, too dull and pervasive for most to percieve
under its proper name. It finally occured to me that the Grace of the Wisdom
of God was meant heal this, and as best as I am able to tell, even now many
years later, that is what happened to me in a moment of revelation. I can
still recall the exact instant it happened. I seemed to be filled up with a
new life, infinitely greater and more spelndid than the one I had known. It
is a cliche to say the experince cannot be expailned in words, but I can
offer you this much idea of it: go and listen to the Pilgrim's Chorus from
Wagner's Tannhauser and imagine feeling the way that sounds. I happend to
have been in a coffe house talking to a girl at the time, and I mistakenly
thought that I had fallen in love with her! It was the same kind of
experience. I no longer recognize in memories from before that time the
person I was.

Shortly before this I had undergone a surgery which was badly botched and
almost died. I realized then that I had to go and pour a libation of
thanksgiving to the Gods for having preserved my life for that moment, the
moment when I realized I was of the same religion as Plato, Iamblichus,
Julian and Proclus.

I have never encountered anyone else who shares this faith, certianly not
in the profession of Classics, the very people who are trained to best
udnerstand these matters, at least outwardly. That is why I met with honest
joy the Nova Roma movement, of which I became aware only a few days ago now.
When I read on the Julian Society list that someone in the world is planning
to make a temple to Hekate, and already has a cult statue, I quite literally
wept, and became excited and exhilirated at the thought of perfoming
sacrifice there, something I have never done, and which I never thought it
would be possible to do. I still, obviously have much to learn about you,
and hopefully in dialog with you, but I thought the best wat to proceed
would be to introduce myself in the way that I have, especially in view of
the fact that when the Gods save us, they also command us to leave testimony
to the fact in their houses. This list is not a temple, but it may be a
start.

I have one more thing to testify to.

I am married to a woman named Rita (not the girl mentioned above), who is
a Roman Catholic, of extremly traditonal tastes and orthodox leanings--a
position I once toyed with, but know now I can never assume. Last year she
concieved our daughter Sophia, who died in the womb one day before labor was
going to be induced (a fatal blood-clot formed in the placenta--the poor
thing was perfectly well up until the last moment and then died, probably in
the space of only a minute). You can imagine how shattering this was,
especially for Rita--I have prepared myself for suffering through the
intensive study of philosophy, but this tested my indiffernce and reserve,
Rita, however, is possessed of an innocence that is indescribably beautiful,
but left her terrbily vulnerable. I feared for her sanity. Rita went through
all the rituals of aid and comfort presrcibed by her Church. I prayed to
Apollo that he might save my wife and child, and vowed to repay him as best
I could. Now just over a year later Rita seems restored (and she is pregnant
again with a boy I hope to name Julian) and I have every faith that Sophia
is in as blessed a state as she may be. It would be easy to say that time
heals all wounds, I have decided (and I do not decive myself that faith is
not in some sense and existential decision--asfter all we do live in the
modern world) that the proposition that I and my family expereince the Grace
of Apollo is a more meaningful description. Since that time I honoured the
God with libations, and have done and will libate and leave a offering of
flowers on Sophia's grave each year on the Rosalia (last year the first day
that Rita could bear to return to the cemetary after the funeral).

This brings up some ciritcal problems that I feel I have to address, not
by dogmatic statements that I have no authority to make, but in discussion
with the members of this list whom i hope believe as I do.

The proper recompense I owe to Apollo is sacrifice. The reasons I have not
yet done so are deeply troubling to me, and I think must be considered
seriously by anyone who loves the gods.

First let me say something further about my studies. I have completed all
of the course work for a Ph.D. in classics, and am a specialist in
Neoplatonism and Greek magic. For personal reasons that have been partly
alluded to above, I am on hiatus from a formal degree program, but have been
working as a Greek instructor. I have published articles and reviews in
these fields in peer-reviewd journals, and will have a spate of new articles
published at the end of next summer. I have a draft of a dissertation
dealing with Iamblichus' dialog with Christianity in his Pythagorean Life
(the on-line name I use, Malkhos, was the given name of the Neoplatonist
Porphyry, a man of Semitic cultural origin). I do not think of myself in any
way as a hemicaust crack-pot, but I know that if most classicists read what
I have written here, they would be dismissive.

I am now going to raise a series of objections that I feel have to be
answered, and which, if the answers are going to be meaningful have to be
answered together, not just by me and my own reason. I do not mean to be a
smart ass or to offend anyone's beleifs. But the Socratic method of finding
the truth employs discussion, and I feel strongly that the points I will
make are the ones that are going to have to be discussed if any kind of
resurrection of ancient religion is to be made, as I fervently hope it can.
I know that some 'pagan' lists I have looked at go so far as to say that if
you criticize anyone's beliefs you will be banned from the list. I never
said anything about it but just left, because I took it as a signal that the
people were not serious. If you seriously believe something, your belief can
sustain criticism. There also seemed little point in believing in soemthing
that you either did not care to defend, or tacitly admitted was
indefensible.

1. In Antiquity religion was a communal act: the very word means 'binding
together' and it was the force that bound the city into a sacred whole.
Corespondingly, the exercise of religion depended on the common practice of
all citizens together. Anyone who purseued a strange religion or practiced
reilgious ritual for private inscrutible ends was liable to charges of
superstition and magic. The very indictment agianst Socrates charged him
with worshipping Gods other than the city's. If you had approached someone
in antiquity, even a priest or philsopher, and asked him how his religion
could be sustained in a state that was secular and atheistic, he would have
told you it could not. A specific cult had been established by the Gods,
wither in prehsitory or through divination or revelation and its existence
depended on its communal suport nad its continuous operation. If it ever
ceased to exist or operate, this was a further sign from the gods that that
cult should end. For example, the cult of Jupiter Dolinecheas was in late
antiquity almost as popular throughout the Roman Empire as the worship of
Mithras, but, once the Persians sacked and burned the temple at Dolinecheum,
it was abandoned everywhere else on the grounds that if a God was too weak
to defend his own temple, what good was he. This kind of reasoning applied
to individual cults; no ancient person could have imagined all cults ceasing
silmultaneously (until it happened), or how the whole aparatus could be
revived after 1500 years of lapse of worhsip. At one time I considered
converting to Parsism, the last remnant of the ancient Zoroastrian religion
(still surviving among Iranian emingrants in India and spread from there
recetly to a few other places around the world) and the last trace of any
ancient religin not related to Judeo-Christianity. But they don't accept
converts; they want to protect the purity of their unbroken tradition by
limiting it to ethnic Iranians, and I can't blame them. But, and here is the
question, how can we say we f! ollow a religion based in tradition after so
long a cesation of tradition? Obviously we must find some way. I trust that
it can be some way other than to invent a buch of fraudulent nonsense
offensive to reason, as the Wiccans, Theosophists, Druids, and others have
done. I feel strongly that only way is to revive the ancient cults in the
purest possible form (which is why I felt also trememdous relief when I saw
the photos of the cult image of Hekate posted here--it looks like a real
cult image, not like a hollywood or kitsch idea of a cult image). The
revival of cultic practice per se, is not really so diffcult, though it
would take much work, the problem is finding a theological justification or
explanation to bridge those lost 15 centuries. The best hope I can see comes
from Iamblichus, whose theurgic doctrines form a link between ordianry
cultic practice and the essentially private religious practices that we
would be forced to today. I expect I will have rather more to say about that
later, if my contributions turn out to be welcome here. Indeed the only
reason I am writing now, is becuase reading the De mysteriis has recently
made my own thinking on this subject much more flexible.

As I find out more about Nova Roma, it seems as if it is attempting to
provide a viable platform for sacrifice.

2. I don't know what the attitude here is toward the word 'pagan', but I
will venture to offer my own opinion. In antiquity paganus was someone from
the countryside, someone likely to be unsophsiticated, ignornat,
old-fashioned: a hill-billy or red-neck. The church fathers had the brillant
idea of applying this term to anyone they suppsoed lacked the wisdom and
sophsitication to convert ot Christinaity, who insisted on adhereing to what
Christians considered an out-moded form of religion. Becuase of this
historical etymology, classicsits have not for a long time now not refered
to Graeco-Roman religion as 'paganism.' I certianly will never use this term
to refer to myself, and think any one else who wanted to revivie
non-Judaeo-Christian reigion would be wise to do likewise. In my view we
should use the same kind of formualtions found in Julian and other ancient
writers who were first faced with defining as particular what had been
universal. In controversy with Christians, Julian most often refered to
himself as a Greek; probably we would more like say Roman. We should say
that we follow the faith of our ancestors, that we worship the Gods, or that
we are pious.

3. The revival of ancient religion is always going to seem mad and
pointless to the mass of soceity, whther they are Christians, Atheists, or
whatever. For example, I have already seen the Julian Society ridiculed on
an American Philogoical Association list, supposedly for the lack of
learning displayed in some Web article or annoucnement the author had seen,
although it was clear he had not invenstigated the matter clsoely enough to
form an accurate judgement; the derision was reflexive. For this reason, I
think anyone attempting such a revival has to be absolutely beyond reproach
in terms of intellectual, aesthetic, and moral legitimacy--as one would be
any way who followed the ancient traditions. There are a few obvious errors
that could easily be avoided. a. Anyone who has read Plato knows that the
creation myth in the Timaeus and his various allusions to Atlantis are what
we would call today thought experiments--he never intended them to become
dogmatic articles of faith. So there would be no reason, for example, for
any follower of Plato to act in a manner similar to many American Indians
and Christian fundamentialsits and deny Evolution--one should also bear in
mind all of the damage done to the popualr opinion of Americna Indian
religion by the interfernce by some Indians in the name of that religion in
archaeological and other scientific research. b.Thomas Taylor seems to have
a good reputation here, and I can see why, since his aim is the same as
ours; personally I have a great deal of affection and sympathy for him. But
he made himself look ridiculous by, for example, denying the validity even
of Newtonian phyiscs, even of Galileo's observations of craters on the moon
and the moons of Jupiter (see previous item). Also his Greek was very bad,
and his translations give a very imperfect idea of the texts he was dealing
with. Since all of the important books he translated have been given modern
schoalrly versions, some of them quite recently (I may well post a
bibliographical list here, if anyone ! is intrested). There is absolutely no
need to rely for our knwoledge of ancient religious texts on Taylor's
translations, nor for our interpretation and understanding of them on
figures of nebulous learning, and possesed of mtoives and agendas that have
nothing to do with ancient traditions: e.g. G.R.S. Meade, MacGregor Mathers,
A.E. Waite; Mme. Blavatsky, Alester Crowley. Jung, Kerenyi, and von Franz,
Joseph Campbell, etc. We should instead read: Plato, Plutarch, Pausanius,
Julian, Homer, Sophocles, etc. with as little imtermediation as possible.

4. Many modern people have been loyal to the Gods wither more or less
openly or in their hearts, but lacking any integrated structure of
traditional worship, remained isolated and alienated in this regard. If
these persons have also attained the greatest intellectual and artistic
acheivements, they are the ones whose examples we should follow and make
known to others. Good examples of this sort of person would be: Goethe,
Keats, Wagner.

I hope I have seemed too overbearing or bombastic. I have merely set forth
what I believe, and how I intend to act. I hope to find here at least a few
of similar mind. If you find what I have said provocative, I hope you are
stimualted to discussion.

I have for a long time now considered myself a Roman rather than an
American or anything else, and so am disposed to join Nova Roma, but would
appreciate some response from civites or magistrates, or memebers of the
Julian list, whethery they consider my motives and intentions compatible
with theirs.

warmest regards,

Malkhos





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8347 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Pray for Faustus
Salve,

Oh, gods, mother Salus, how I´m sick! Ache around!

Friends, put your gods on charge because I really fell bad. I always has a health of a bull, but now I see the Furies around me.

Uff...





Vale,



L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,

Interpreter (lingua lusitaniae), Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae.

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



"I too in words could fight even Immortals..."

Iliad, Homer, book XX

The answer of Hector about Achilles' speeches.



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8348 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Pray for Faustus
Did you fall somewhere? Could someone be...liable?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus [mailto:lafaustus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:16 PM
To: LISTONA
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Pray for Faustus



Salve,

Oh, gods, mother Salus, how I´m sick! Ache around!

Friends, put your gods on charge because I really fell bad. I always has a
health of a bull, but now I see the Furies around me.

Uff...





Vale,



L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,

Interpreter (lingua lusitaniae), Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae.

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



"I too in words could fight even Immortals..."

Iliad, Homer, book XX

The answer of Hector about Achilles' speeches.



---------------------------------
Busca Yahoo!
O serviço de busca mais completo da Internet. O que você pensar o Yahoo!
encontra.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8349 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Pray for Faustus
A true lawyer. LOL!

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: jlasalle
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Pray for Faustus


Did you fall somewhere? Could someone be...liable?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus [mailto:lafaustus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:16 PM
To: LISTONA
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Pray for Faustus



Salve,

Oh, gods, mother Salus, how I´m sick! Ache around!

Friends, put your gods on charge because I really fell bad. I always has a
health of a bull, but now I see the Furies around me.

Uff...





Vale,



L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,

Interpreter (lingua lusitaniae), Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae.

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



"I too in words could fight even Immortals..."

Iliad, Homer, book XX

The answer of Hector about Achilles' speeches.



---------------------------------
Busca Yahoo!
O serviço de busca mais completo da Internet. O que você pensar o Yahoo!
encontra.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8350 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Ave Marinus

I found the consul's original vague and cryptic reasons for his veto to be,
well, vague and cryptic. No malice could be inferred from my statement
unless you're hypersensitive, paranoid, or looking for a fight. Tone doesn't
translate well here, and his statement was funny. So I made fun of it,
trying to inject some levity in a tense situation. I am guilty.

I've never known any of the bombs I've thrown to slide without comment, and
usually that comment appears in the form of a personal attack. But I can
take it. Bring it on. Politics is about mixing it up, and I won't be cowed
by the likes of you or Audens.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
[mailto:gawne@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:54 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your
Patronage"


L. Cornelius Sulla writes:

[concerning my rebuke addressed to Legatus Agricola]

> Ave Propraetor,
>
> If you wanted to help your boss help him with his language skills
> in drafting items of importance like Vetos.

Had the Senior Consul asked his advisors for any help or assistance
in drafting that veto, I'd gladly have provided such, Consular.
As I mentioned last night, I'd have offered certain other advice had
it been asked too. But as far as I know the Senior Consul acted
entirely on his own in this matter, as is his perogative.

> Do not get upset at a citizen voicing satire at the expense of the
> Consul.

A privatus citizen is welcome to voice all the satire he may wish.
In this case I took issue with an oath sworn magistrate clearly
disregarding his oath "to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma." While it's entirely
appropriate for another magistrate to question a veto, mockery
falls outside the bounds of supporting our republic.

That oath binds me, it binds you, and it binds the Legatus, though
he seems to have forgotten.

> So instead of putting a citizen down, use your role as a staff
> member of Consul Fabius and proof his posts before he sends them
> out to the ML.

That's not how Consul Fabius uses his staff, Consular. We don't
preapprove his posts to this or any other list.

-- Marinus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8351 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Testament of Malkhos
The same for me,as I am also contemplating the nearing
loss of my own beloved daughter, albeit an adopted one
the pain is nevertheless there. I too have chosen to
rediscover my pagan past and in doing so have found
new sources of strength that help me in the daily
struggle of caring for a child that was brought into
this world with the cards very much against her.
I may write what you have written, as it is tradional
to write a poem for the departed, at least according
to Roman tradition. I too have been raised in a
Fundamentalist home, discovering on my own through
Caesar's and Cocero's writings the pagan heritage that
was long denied me.
Thank you for you story. In a little while it will
be my turn!

Anthony
--- jlasalle <jlasalle@...> wrote:
> An interesting journey. My condolences to you for
> your lost daughter. I've
> always considered the pantheon of Greco_Roman Gods
> to represent the full
> spectrum of human existence, emotion, logic, and
> experience. And much more
> sensible than Christianity.
>
> to gar autou noien estin te kai enai
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
>
> "It is indeed a desirable thing to be
> well-descended, but the glory belongs
> to our ancestors."
> -Plutarch (46-120AD)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bradley Skene [mailto:malkhos@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:48 AM
> To: JulianSociety@yahoogroups.com;
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Testament of Malkhos
>
>
>
> I was raised in some vague offshoot of the
> Protestant sect founded by John
> Calvin. My parents rarely attended the services,
> certianly did not beleive
> in it, but sent me for some years to the Sunday
> School, where I was taught
> pathetic theology and philosophy by pathetic men and
> women.
>
> By the time I was 9 years old I had determined
> that the proper course to
> follow was that of materialist atheism. But at the
> same time I was filled
> with curiosity to find out the truth, the truth that
> lay behind what little
> I had been shown of the spiritual world (I seemd to
> know by some instinct
> that there was something more), the truth that would
> expose the falseness
> and insufficency of those who had failedto teach me.
>
> In college I set out to take the courses for
> chemical engineering, since
> that seemed an advantageous profession, and one
> suited to a scientifically
> mindied atheist. But I also took history courses
> becuase I was intersted in
> them. I soon found that I had such a monomania for
> historical research that
> I was reading historical texts even while actually
> attending the chemistry
> lectures. I changed the course of my studies to
> conform to the new my new
> view of reality. I determined to fix on the
> Renaissance since the kindly and
> jovial personality of my teacher in that field,
> Willaim Maltby, had made a
> tremendous impression on me. Also the figures that I
> studied, the Kings and
> Generals of the Catholic Renaissance--Charles V,
> Philip II, Don Juan of
> Austria, The Dukes of Alba and Parma--seemed
> admirable to me because of
> their unswavering devotion to purity of doctrine;
> however much in error I
> beleived them to be: their faith impressed me.
>
> Then I read Plato.
>
> On his teaching he seemed as if he were showing my
> own thoughts to me,
> thoughts which were nobler and finer than any I had
> ever had, but which were
> living unkown within me. And the substance of his
> teaching explained why
> this was so: he was merely revealing the substance
> our own divine natures,
> which the prison house of the body kept us form
> seeing. I still did not yet
> believe him, but I recognized that here at last was
> what lay beneath
> Christianity and everything else I had been seeking
> after--I still took this
> not in a spiritual sense, but in the sense of
> historical causation.
>
> I knew that Plato was what I had to study, but in
> the Renaissance, his
> philosophy had become very fractured: Hermeticism,
> Kabbalah of various
> sorts, sufism, magic. The life's work (and he had a
> very short life) of the
> greatest philosopher of the period, Giovanni Pico
> della Mirandola, Prince of
> Concord, was to attempt to call together a Grand
> council of Christian,
> Jewish, and Islamic theologians, to create a new
> faith unifying all three on
> the basis of their common Neoplatonic theology. I
> determined that I would
> write as my Ph.D. dissertaion a translation and
> commentary of the program he
> had prepared for the conference (never called
> becuase the Pope put him under
> house arrest rather than permit it)--900 theses for
> debate and a plenary
> address: The Oration on the Dignity of Man (a poject
> which I did not then,
> but will someday, complete). Obviously I would
> haveto know Latin, and as I
> had started my historical studies quite late, I took
> an MA in Classics.
>
> Once I could read Greek, and had read Plato, and
> the New Testament, and
> Sophocles, and Homer, and many other works in Greek,
> it was farewell to the
> Renaissance.
>
> It was also farwell to atheism. It slowly dawned
> on me that to think and
> believe as Plato had done increased rather than
> lessened my dignity, so I
> did so, but as a philosophy only, not yet as a
> faith, except as a pose in
> debate with my fellow Ph.D. candidates, either
> atheists, Christians so far
> lapsed into hedonism and indiffernce that they were
> nothing Augustine or
> Paul would have recognized, or Fundamentalists
> preachers, gaining a real
> degree in Greek so that they could teach at their
> sectarian seminaries.
>
> My sympathies veered toward Gnosticism at this
> time. The translation of
> Plato's teachings into a more mythic form, a form
> expressed in the myths of
> the semitic peoples (and I do not mean only
> Judaism--once one becomes
> acainted with the mytholgoiesof Babylon and Ugarit
> everything about judiam
> is seen in a new light and takes on a new meaning)
> seemed perilously
> beautiful. Here at last, knowledge began to
> transform into belief. It will
> come as no suprise to anyone reading this that every
> human life is filled
> with suffering, and all the more so those lives cut
> off from spiritual
> refreshment. I certainly had my share--I mean the
> interior pain of
> lonliness, isolation and exile, too dull and
> pervasive for most to percieve
> under its proper name. It finally occured to me that
> the Grace of the Wisdom
> of God was meant heal this, and as best as I am able
> to tell, even now many
> years later, that is what happened to me in a moment
> of revelation. I can
> still recall the exact instant it happened. I seemed
> to be filled up with a
> new life, infinitely greater and more spelndid than
> the one I had known. It
> is a cliche to say the experince cannot be expailned
> in words, but I can
> offer you this much idea of it: go and listen to the
> Pilgrim's Chorus from
> Wagner's Tannhauser and imagine feeling the way that
> sounds. I happend to
> have been in a coffe house talking to a girl at the
> time, and I mistakenly
> thought that I had fallen in love with her! It was
> the same kind of
> experience. I no longer recognize in memories from
> before that time the
> person I was.
>
> Shortly before this I had undergone a surgery
> which was badly botched and
> almost died. I realized then that I had to go and
> pour a libation of
> thanksgiving to the Gods for having preserved my
> life for that moment, the
> moment when I realized I was of the same religion as
> Plato, Iamblichus,
> Julian and Proclus.
>
> I have never encountered anyone else who shares
> this faith, certianly not
> in the profession of Classics, the very people who
> are trained to best
>
=== message truncated ===


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8352 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
"You have chosen to mock "a Consular veto."

No I didn't.

"if arguing before the Supreme Court, make a mockery of some awkward wording
by the Chief Justice?

If it was that ackward? maybe.

"By your oath as Legatus you are sworn to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and
to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova
Roma. Your mockery of the Senior Consul is an insult not only to our
republic, but to your word as a magistrate, and as a Roman citizen."

Ok. But it was still pretty funny.


"I deplore you sir."

Get in line. And don't call me "sir". My father is still alive and I work
for a living.


Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)
-----Original Message----


Gaius Basilicatus Agricola writes:

> The Senate is at the moment discussing a decision that involves
> a decison that involves a decision that The Senate is at the
> moment discussing.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

I remind you of your oath of office sir. You have chosen to mock
a Consular veto. You knew full well from the subject line that it
was a Consular veto when you did so.

Would you, if arguing before the Supreme Court, make a mockery of
some awkward wording by the Chief Justice? Or make a mockery of
the President of the United States when he is speaking in his
official capacity? Our Consuls are our highest magistrates vested
with Imperium, and you have chosen to mock a Consular veto.

By your oath as Legatus you are sworn to uphold the honor of
Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people
and the Senate of Nova Roma. Your mockery of the Senior Consul
is an insult not only to our republic, but to your word as a
magistrate, and as a Roman citizen.

I deplore you sir.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8353 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
That's the spririt we like to see! If s/he growls,
growl back, hold your ground, and never flinch!
Nothing annoys me more than someone's curiosity being
shot down.

Anthony
--- jlasalle <jlasalle@...> wrote:
> It shouldn't be tolerated. Don't let that scare you
> off. If you voice a
> strong opinion here, you're likely to draw out some
> psychotic shut-in
> linux-hermit who has nothing better to do than write
> vitriolic e-mails. It
> just goes with the internet. The vast majority of
> citizens are intelligent,
> kind, and truly good at heart.
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
> Legate Major for Regio Campus
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
>
> "It is indeed a desirable thing to be
> well-descended, but the glory belongs
> to our ancestors."
> -Plutarch (46-120AD)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: malkhos <malkhos@...>
> [mailto:malkhos@...]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:54 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: What Latin word can I use
> for pound that was used
> in ancient Rome?
>
>
> The answer to the immediate question in libera;
> and it is not
> surprising that it has caused some uncertianity,
> althought it must
> have been a common word and has well known
> Romances descendents
> (livre in French; the stylized 'L' monogram used
> to denoted the
> British pound) it was not a common literary word:
> it does not, I
> beleive occur in Lewis' Elementary, but is the
> first defintion given
> in the OLD.
>
> More widely, however, I have just discovered Nova
> Roma and am greatly
> intersted in joining, but I have been for a few
> days monitoring the
> posts here and on some of the other lists. The
> string of replies to
> this rather innocent question contians appaling
> bitterness; and I
> have seen simialr bad manners elsewhere. Is this
> sort of thing common
> here? If so, why is it tolerated?
>
> Malkhos
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism
> <biojournalism@h...>" <biojournalism@h...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > Can someone tell me the Roman (Latin) word for
> measuring by the
> > pound? Sample sentence, "Masinissa wants 5,000
> pounds of gold,
> 3,000
> > pounds of pepper, 30,000 pounds of silver and
> 4,000 tunics of silk."
> > What word can I substitute for pound to mean a
> similar unit of
> > measurement such as a pound of silver or a pound
> of beans? My novel
> > takes place 150 BCE in Rome and with Cato and
> Scipio in Numidia.
> >
> >
> > Octavia
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8354 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Ti Galerio Paulino Curatori SPD

I understand that you must feel "sandbagged" right now. My collega or I
should have said something at the time when we first saw your patronage
draft on the Novaromaeagle list. As it is, we are both working on a
variety of projects; my own time has been spent mostly preparing for the
collection of taxes. This doesn't excuse the lack of feedback you
received from us, but I hope that it does explain it to you. Hindsight,
as they say, is perfect. It most certainly was not our intent to
embarass you.

There are several reasons why I support my collega's veto. First and
foremost, the Senate is currently voting on a measure that directly
concerns the Eagle's funding. As the Senate is the sole authority over
Nova Roma's purse strings, it does seem improper to create a policy
regarding fundraising for an official Nova Roman organ without first
waiting for the Senate to reach its decision on that measure.

Second, as the Senate is the sole authority over Nova Roma's treasury,
and as your patronage idea sets treasury policy, it is technically
illegal. This doesn't stop it from being a good idea. In my opinion,
it is an *excellent* idea, and one which will obviously net results.
Should the Eagle funding measure pass the Senate, you will have both the
authority necessary to create such a policy and my enthusiastic support
for doing so.

Third, the patronage idea obligates Nova Roma to produce the Eagle for
up to three years in the future. To date, we have had difficulties
providing the publication to those who have subscribed for a single
year. Therefore, my collega and I are somewhat leery of allowing Nova
Roma to incur such an obligation without the express agreement of the
Senate. If the measure before the Senate passes, your patronage idea
would therefore still need to be approved by the Senate. I, for one,
would be happy to place it on the agenda and argue for it.

Beyond the issue currently at hand, I also understand how terribly
frustrating it can be to attempt such initiatives in Nova Roma. The Res
Publica is extremely young and has never enjoyed a consistent,
professional government with which to establish firm and reasonable
ground rules for the collection and spending of money. After all, last
year was the first year in which we actually had an income. I hope that
you can understand that this makes things difficult for all of us, and
how it leads to an environment in which the government is both
tight-fisted and unwilling to incur obligations without a lot of
deliberation.

I also want to make it clear that I think you are the best curator
differum that Nova Roma has had to date. You have approached the
position with enthusiasm and energy, and have so far produced a superior
product. The patronage idea is, as I said, excellent. I sincerely hope
that we can get past the challenges that the early part of this year has
presented and move on to a smoother relationship. With luck, the
measure the Senate is currently voting on will both better define what
you need to get Senate approval for and give you the freedom necessary
to successfully carry out your job.

Vale
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8355 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I'm joining in with this discussion in the hope of
bringing some calm. Many emotive issues have got mixed
up here, and people are beginning to be perhaps unduly
upset. I'm going to try to separate out some of the
different strands of the issue, with the idea that
this will help us to think clearly.

First, there was Curator Galerius Paulinus' patronage
initiative. I believe everyone who has so far entered
this discussion is agreed that this is an excellent
idea, put forward with admirable intent.

The Curator put the idea forward in a forum other than
the main list first, in the earnest belief that any
objections to it would be picked up at this stage.
Since there is no clearly defined procedure by which a
magistrate can submit edicts for checking before he
publishes them, this was a perfectly sound course of
action, and it is admirable that he took such a
precaution.

The Senior Consul evidently by some or other mischance
did not spot the problem at that stage, and so was
able to bring up his objection only after the edict
had been formally published. This is indeed
regrettable. However, it is not the duty of the
Consuls to monitor closely the activity of every list
to which they subscribe, nor to check the edicts of
other magistrates before they are published. Moreover,
unless a petition was explicitly and formally
addressed to the consuls to check the edict, no duty
was upon them to do so. It is generally considered, I
think, the place of each magistrate to check his own
edicts.

It is, however, the duty of the Consuls to ensure the
observance of the law, and therefore it was
appropriate for Consul Quintilianus to veto this
particular item, as it was unconstitutional.

Up to this point, therefore, we can see that though
there have been some small deviations on both sides
from what would have been ideal, neither magistrate
has done anything other than his duty, and certainly
nothing reprehensible.

From this point, the debate has taken a number of
directions. In one, we have the issue of whether it is
appropriate for a media publication such as the Eagle
to be subject to government control. There is a danger
(though I must stress that Cassius Calvus, the
originator of this line of thinking, has made no such
claim at all) that some will see the Consul's veto in
this light as some sort of censorship. We should all
be quite clear: this veto in no way intereferes with
the content of the Eagle, nor does it in any way
disparage the Curator or his actions. There is a case
to be made for an independent press, and I would
certainly welcome the publication of a third NR
newspaper (the second being the on-line monthly Roman
Times). This, however, is some way off the main point.

Another issue which has come up is that of speed and
flexibility: some say, could the Consul not have been
lenient and let this item go past, seeing that it was
a good idea and might well have been perfectly legal
had it been delayed for a few days or weeks? Well,
sadly not.

Firstly, the law is the law, and the constitution even
more so (if you'll pardon my using an expression which
is in strict logical terms nonsense). Trespasses on
the constitution really cannot be allowed, however
admirable they may be in intent or effect, because the
constitution is the foundation of the state and the
basis of law and order in our society.

Secondly, when financial matters are at stake, there
is the added dimension of macronational law. As
Senator Sinicius Drusus and others have mentioned,
Nova Roma corporation is legally and financially
liable for the Eagle, and any expenditure or revenue
associated with it must be supervised by the Board of
Directors, i.e. the Senate. We should also consider
the individuals involved. A cheque has been sent and
received - though luckily not yet cashed. Had a veto
not been pronounced at this stage, the cheque might
have been cashed and even the money spent before the
edict was found to be unconstitutional, and then a
citizen would be out of pocket.

Thirdly, we should remember that the Roman system of
government is designed to be slow, and to err on the
side of caution. A veto is not a condemnation of an
action or of the person who made the action. It is
merely a safeguard. The Curator should not be at all
ashamed or embarrassed to have had part of an edict
vetoed - no one thinks any less of him as a result.
Many present and past magistrates have had actions
vetoed, and I can't think of any whose reputations
have suffered from it.

We had recently a episode which demonstrated how a
veto can be a constructive tool to improve a situation
and to address a problem. I'm thinking of the
Aedilician edicts. There is no reason why this cannot
happen again here. A good idea has been put forward:
there is a technical problem which means it can't be
put into effect immediately. A veto was used to make
sure nothing went wrong. Now, as is appropriate, the
veto can be the starting-point for further
constructive discussions, and can perhaps prompt
everyone involved - the Curator with his idea, the
Consul with his legal concerns, the Senate with their
motion on the table - to talk to one another and work
together, as happened after the veto of the Aedilician
edicts.

Sorry to go on at such length, but I hope that those
of you who have read this far have found at least some
of what I've said helpful or at least calming.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8356 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salvete,

As a Quaestor, I had the opportunity to know quite well what is going on with the Eagle.
First of all, I have to say that the Eagle is a wonderful project and that the work being
done by our Curator is amazing. Simply put, an exemple of dedication and work for all of
us.
The Eagle is as well a rather big project especially in terms of financing for our young
Republic. And more projects are being actually implemented. We are now officially more
than 1770 citizens, so an increase of around 50% in only one year. A lot of these
citizens come with ideas and projects that deserve to be heard and helped. All this
activity needs the required organisation, otherwise we might face an incredible chaos.
Imho, our Republic not only needs to adjust but as well prepare the future by setting up
standards and procedures and, as in any organisation, this may take some time.
So the veto our our Honored Consul should not be seen as a sanction toward our Curator
but a request to "slow down the pace a bit" so that our Honored Senate will have the time
to decide its policy and agenda.
I can then only imagine a prosperous future for the Eagle.

Valete,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Consular Quaestor 2756 AUC
Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France -- French Translator
Scriba Explorator Primus et Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8357 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.

<snippage>

> From this point, the debate has taken a number of
> directions. In one, we have the issue of whether it is
> appropriate for a media publication such as the Eagle
> to be subject to government control. There is a danger
> (though I must stress that Cassius Calvus, the
> originator of this line of thinking, has made no such
> claim at all) that some will see the Consul's veto in
> this light as some sort of censorship

<even more snippage>

You are correct. In this case the intercesso is appropriate as the
Edict in question sets Treasury policy which is purely the balliwick
of the Senate and has nothing to do with the content of The Eagle. I
think the Patronage idea is a good one, much akin to PBS. For those
outside the U.S. and Canada PBS is a semi non-commercial broadcast
network that relys on funding from private donations from both people
and corporation (which is why I say semi-non-commercial because you
will here at the start and end of a program, "made possible in part
by.....") as well as some governmental financial aid. Currently with
the Eagle being dependent upon the Treasury as its primary source of
capital outlay (if I understand correctly the current subscriptions
do not cover the expenses) it makes The Eagle susceptible to having
its funding cut off if something printed within ruffles a few
political feathers.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8358 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Endorsement For Athanasius
Hello all,
I would ask that everyone please vote so we can stop voting! PLEASE!
Also, I ask for your vote to be cast for Gaius Modius Athanasius. I believe he would make a great tribune. I have been working with him for a little less than a year now and find him to be an honest man who would serve Rome well.

Thank you,




Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni


---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8359 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8360 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Avete Sex. Iulius,

If your a Patrician you do not vote in this election because its for the Tribune of the Plebs. Only Plebians can vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8361 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:50:23AM -0800, Anthony Scott wrote:
> That's the spririt we like to see! If s/he growls,
> growl back, hold your ground, and never flinch!
> Nothing annoys me more than someone's curiosity being
> shot down.

<mildly> You've lost your referent in the confusion of emails, all
alike. Agricola was the one attacking Octavia Fabia Scriba for asking a
question; if you read any of his previous emails, you'll see that it's a
habit of his. He's also the one who's currently slavering, drooling, and
frothing at the mouth because he can't find anything intelligent to say
in his own defense. The purpose of my response to him was to show that
his behavior is an aberration on this list.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
My conscience means more to me than all speech.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8362 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Go sail around the world.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:50 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was
used in ancient Rome?


On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:50:23AM -0800, Anthony Scott wrote:
> That's the spririt we like to see! If s/he growls,
> growl back, hold your ground, and never flinch!
> Nothing annoys me more than someone's curiosity being
> shot down.

<mildly> You've lost your referent in the confusion of emails, all
alike. Agricola was the one attacking Octavia Fabia Scriba for asking a
question; if you read any of his previous emails, you'll see that it's a
habit of his. He's also the one who's currently slavering, drooling, and
frothing at the mouth because he can't find anything intelligent to say
in his own defense. The purpose of my response to him was to show that
his behavior is an aberration on this list.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
My conscience means more to me than all speech.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8363 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: How I solved my search for the appropriate Latin word.
Isn't research fun? After trying a medley of English to Latin
dictionaries online, none of which answered my question simply
(which is difficult to do because of grammar considerations), I
finally contacted the classical studies division of a university
that teaches Latin and simply asked the instructor what is the
correct way to write "Three thousand pounds of pepper." That is the
only time I'd be using Latin in my novel.

I had to find out whether 'pounds' was a concept of weight in
ancient Rome and how I would write it or use it in the
sentence, "three thousand pounds of pepper" so that my English
language readers wouldn't be distracted from the story. Before that,
other writers of romance, historical, and mystery novels set in
ancient Rome from my writer's groups suggested I use "pondus" or
pondere/pondera, but no one could tell me what form of pondus, a
measure of weight, was correct. (I'm a retired English teacher.)

Also, the answer I received in the UK from The Society for the
Advancement of Roman Studies at: http://www.sas.ac.uk/icls/Roman/
was prompt, courteous, and very helpful. When I think about ancient
cultures it has a special meaning for me when pondering my roots,
being 75% Greek (Mikonos and Crete)and 25% Italian. My stories in
ancient settings have multicultural characters such as the Armenian
prince Vatchekan, Egyptian children of 150 BCE adopted by Romans,
the Roman attitude towards dogs versus cats as house pets (not too
good outside of Gaul or Britain for dogs, okay in Egypt for cats),
Numidians as Phoenician colonists, Carthaginians, and others. So it
takes a lot of research, all of which is light-spirited and fun
while learning some pretty fascinating customs about other shades of
time, let along other lands. Thanks again for your efforts,
especially to the food group on ancient recipes.
Kali Orexi (bon appetit)

Octavia Fabia Scriba

Thanks all.

http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8364 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Thank you Lucius Cornelius for clarifying this. How does one receive voter codes in general?

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Avete Sex. Iulius,

If your a Patrician you do not vote in this election because its for the Tribune of the Plebs. Only Plebians can vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8365 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Ave Sex. Iulius,

To receive your voter code you can go to the Album Gentium, locate your gens, then click on your name. There is a button there called Get Voter Code. It will email it to your address that you have on file with the Censors office. Or you can just email the Censors and they can give it to you manually.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Thank you Lucius Cornelius for clarifying this. How does one receive voter codes in general?

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Avete Sex. Iulius,

If your a Patrician you do not vote in this election because its for the Tribune of the Plebs. Only Plebians can vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8366 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
thank you lucius cornelius!

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Ave Sex. Iulius,

To receive your voter code you can go to the Album Gentium, locate your gens, then click on your name. There is a button there called Get Voter Code. It will email it to your address that you have on file with the Censors office. Or you can just email the Censors and they can give it to you manually.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Thank you Lucius Cornelius for clarifying this. How does one receive voter codes in general?

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Avete Sex. Iulius,

If your a Patrician you do not vote in this election because its for the Tribune of the Plebs. Only Plebians can vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8367 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
Your characterization of my inquests to her as "attacking" is pregnant with
mythological hyperbole.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:50 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was
used in ancient Rome?


On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:50:23AM -0800, Anthony Scott wrote:
> That's the spririt we like to see! If s/he growls,
> growl back, hold your ground, and never flinch!
> Nothing annoys me more than someone's curiosity being
> shot down.

<mildly> You've lost your referent in the confusion of emails, all
alike. Agricola was the one attacking Octavia Fabia Scriba for asking a
question; if you read any of his previous emails, you'll see that it's a
habit of his. He's also the one who's currently slavering, drooling, and
frothing at the mouth because he can't find anything intelligent to say
in his own defense. The purpose of my response to him was to show that
his behavior is an aberration on this list.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
My conscience means more to me than all speech.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8368 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: My first vote
Ave Sex. Iulius,

It was no problem. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



thank you lucius cornelius!

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Ave Sex. Iulius,

To receive your voter code you can go to the Album Gentium, locate your gens, then click on your name. There is a button there called Get Voter Code. It will email it to your address that you have on file with the Censors office. Or you can just email the Censors and they can give it to you manually.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Thank you Lucius Cornelius for clarifying this. How does one receive voter codes in general?

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> wrote:Avete Sex. Iulius,

If your a Patrician you do not vote in this election because its for the Tribune of the Plebs. Only Plebians can vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Cornett Polanco
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] My first vote



Can anyone tell me how i go about voting? Thank you.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
Christopher Mortimer <zhonuusa@...> wrote:I wish to announce that I have just cast my first vote
as a citizen of Nova Roma.

L. Metellus Berkeliensis



=====
Chris. Mortimer
"OM AH HUNG BEZAR GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG"
The Vajra Guru Mantra

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8369 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: An update from the Senior Consul
Julilla Sempronia Magna omnibus SPD

Consul Caeso Fabius Quintillianus is not able to be here at present,
as he is aiding a student at his school who is in the midst of a
crisis. Caeso Fabius wishes to more fully address his consular veto
presently, when he has been able to resolve his student's problems.
He hopes that you will understand where his duties now lie and rest
confident in the knowledge that as soon as he can, he will speak to
the issue.

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Accensa, Cohors Consularis
@____@ Caeso Fabius Quintillianus
||||
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8370 From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: FACTIO VENETA AZUL BLUE BLEU AZZURRO
Salvete omnes quirites.

Factio Veneta continues recruiting members for the next Ludi. The month of Aprilis is approaching!!!. Prepare your chariots and aurigae!!!!!!!.We must be the biggest factio of Nova Roma!!!. Factio Veneta needs a champion!!!.
Please go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta and subscribe!!!. Once you applied, you'll receive a message concerning the membership, and I'll approve you .

Bene valete


Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8372 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Salvete Quirites.

I think that I can speak in the name of everyone in Nova Roma when I
say that we are very happy to have such an active editor. Our
Republic relies on enthusiasm, so a person who is willing to devote
time an energy to Nova Roma is always most than welcome.

However, we must keep one thing in mind. We all have different
interests. We all try to improve Nova Roma in different aspects. I,
for instance, am working in a legislative draft to further advance
Nova Roma's judicial system, even if most of you do not know it :-).

When so many different ideas and perspectives get into play,
collisions are a natural occurrence. In the past, I have presented
proposals on this very same list that were surprisingly (to me, at
least) *not* received with unanimous support and constant comments on
my brilliance :-). I have had to retire some of them, in order to
improve them after receiving feedback. But I have managed to
*convince* most of you of the goodness of my proposals in more than
one occasion.

The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an open
mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by others.

I am sure that these proposals about "The Eagle" will be reviewed by
the Senate in due time. After some discussion, I think that at least
most of them will be approved. This will take a few weeks, though,
because we all have many other projects and ideas, and there is just
one Senate and two Consuls.

So bear on with us. Take things with a grain of salt. Breath deeply
and smile :-). After all, isn't it nice to be part of such a
brilliant, active, struggling and entertaining Roman community?

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8373 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Ask yourself this question
Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind Greek-American
writer of historical romance novels for asking how to say a word in
Latin? I have no thoughts of disharmony toward anyone, ever. This is
a loving, fun group, and all of you get one big hug. I am fascinated
by Roman history because I was reared in Greek American culture and
religion, and really never had the time until now to find out what
life was like in ancient Rome. So I'm learning, and it's a joy."

I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking. I remember when I
first joined Nova Roma I also asked to take a poll on whether the
main character in my historical romance novel should be a physician
or some other, and I got back in jest, I imagined, an answer that I
should include a pimp, a lawyer, and a drunk. (In a family-oriented
young teen novel?)

Well, I thought if my novels for young adults are to remain sweet
and family-oriented, a physician might make a better hero image as a
man who heals. Anyway, as a granny of seven and long-retired and
very unemployed English teacher, my only mission in life is to make
life sweeter for everyone around me.

So whatever you say, you still get one big hug, all of you. You know
guys, I've been blind from glaucoma and macular degeneration for
nearly a decade. I have multiple sclerosis and am in and out of my
wheelchair. With only a little vision left, not much, magnification
systems help me read this message board or put up my Web site and
write poetry or stories or a novel now and then so I can keep in
touch with the world as a mostly homebased person.

I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and research, and I had
first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say pound in Latin,
but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how many ways the
dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere, pondus, libera,
and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in ancient Rome that
I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no royalty or
compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma Times, starting
in the March issue.

This is my act of volunteerism as a nearly blind homebased senior
citizen. What more can I do? I'm not employed or earning money. So
this is the only way I can do my part of public service as I have no
income and am dependent on family charity. So why someone has to
single me out for simply asking a question merely on how to say one
word....Well....you go figure the Internet. Yet the Internet is my
prime connection to the outside world. What else is there to go to--
another eye surgery appointment? Life should be more than pain. And
I joined Nova Roma to learn what life was like in ancient times,
especially the foods.

So regardless of whatever anyone says, I only offer sweetness and a
hug to the world. This is Granny Theodakis, here, apple pie and
baklava. I can't please everybody, but at least I smile and feed
anyone who's hungry. What more can I do for you to be of service?
You can have almost anything, but the one thing I don't have is
money or income. It's hard to find a job at 62 when you're blind and
have been wheelchair bound with MS for 18 years. So, what do you
say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions by posting here
as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong number, here?

My gut feeling is that if I want information, I should look it up
online or call most any university professor. A teacher would be
more likely to answer my questions. I thought journalists are
supposed to interview people to get information. In the future, to
be more professional, I'd be better off interviewing experts on what
I want answered and rewarding them by an article that offers free
publicity benefits to them, if they so desire. What do you people
think? In the meantime, the enthusiam I received came only from
emailing randomly the classics dept. of a university and asking the
question--anyone know how to write three thousand pounds of pepper
in Latin? Teachers were pleased someone cared to ask and answered
readily. And I made a new friend. That's the whole idea why I joined
Nova Roma...to make a new friend.

Harmony to all,

Octavia Fabia Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8374 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Here's the answer I received from Carleton University Classics Dept.
From: "Roland Jeffreys" <rjeffrey@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: query

Dear Octavia,
The Latin word for "pound" is "libra".
However, it weighed 0.721 of the modern pound.

If you're talking Roman pounds, "3000 pounds of pepper"
would be "tria milia librarum piperis".

Best wishes,
Roland Jeffreys
http://www.carleton.ca/classics/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8375 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Salvete Omnes:

Could any citizen point me in the right direction on the topic of ancient Roman cuisine?

I have copies of A Taste of Ancient Rome by Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa (translated by Anna Herklotz) and there's an extremely informative chapter in Florence Dupont's Daily Life in Ancient Rome, and some interesting information on "dinner" in Jerome Carcopino's Daily Life in Ancient Rome. I'm also aware that there are passing references to food in the classical authors, but are there any websites that might provide additional information on this topic (let's call it "ancient gastronomy")? I'd certainly appreciate the input of potential authors at biojournalism. Have any of you done any historical fact-finding on this issue as background when researching your fiction?

I have only recently become interested in this topic. I realized, in my reading, that food tells us a lot about a civilization - and that our ignorance of the diets of antiquity is fairly common, even among the educated who should certainly know better. I'm reminded of a comment by Gore Vidal in his book of essays, United States, when he observes that, as one of the many writers who worked on the script of the film, "Ben Hur," he was horrified to note that the set decorator had placed tomatoes in "Mrs. Hur's kitchen," and he had to enlighten the individual in question, to wit: a first century Judean kitchen should not be cluttered with New World vegetables. He goes on to note, with typical Vidalian sarcasm, "maybe Mrs. Hur was expected to use the tomatoes to prepare BLT's for her Jewish guests...".

Anyway, if anyone has any information on this intriguing topic, I would certainly appreciate hearing from you.

Valete.

L. Suetonius Nerva


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8376 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, John Walzer <jwalzer5@c...> wrote:
> Salvete scripsit:
>
> Could any citizen point me in the right direction on the topic
of ancient Roman cuisine?

Aaah my FAVOURITE topic, and how pleasant to "cook up" some answers
for a new palate....

I also have "A Taste of Ancient Rome," however it is not my favourite
volume on my cookery and reference shelf. That place of honour goes
to Mark Grant's "Roman Cookery," followed by the works of Andrew
Dalby's "The Classical Cookbook," paired with "Empire of Pleasures"
for a wonderful rundown of foods, wines, clothing and more.

I cook in the Roman style quite regularly (my family's good natured
about the experimentation) with excellent results from the unusual
combination of spices; in fact, I have got to whip up several things
for a provincial gathering this weekend!

While it hasn't been terribly active of late, I certainly recommend
you join the Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

Calen Orexin (bon appetit!)

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8377 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Rosia Montana
Salvete.

I think that we all are concerned about the problems mining actions will
lead to Romanian people and environmental and also to local archaeological
sites, and I disagree with this action.
It was L. Faustus who made me remember that, we haven't even heard what
Gabriel Resources has to say as defense, though.
So, I entered on Gabriel Resources Ltd. website (www.gabrielresources.com)
and found out that it is represented in Romania by an enterprise called
Rosia Montana Gold Corp. S.A. (http://www.rosiamontanagoldcorp.com/).
There is a huge PDF format text with more than 6.5MB explaining about this
project.
I think it would be good for all those who signed the petition and who
supportted Alburnus Maior antiproject to read what Gabriel Resources has to
say.

Valete.
________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________
“CONCORDIA PARVÆ RES CRESCVNT,
DISCORDIA MAXIMÆ DILABVNTVR.”
— C. Salustius
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.456 / Virus Database: 256 - Release Date: 18/2/2003


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8378 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Nova Britannia Chat Room Tonight - All Welcome!
Salvete!

The weekly Nova Britannia chat will be held tonight from 9:00 pm to
10:00 pm EST at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat

All are welcome!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8379 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
In a message dated 2/25/03 3:16:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
salixastur@... writes:


> I,
> for instance, am working in a legislative draft to further advance
> Nova Roma's judicial system, even if most of you do not know it :-).
>

Hopefully you will show it to us all, before implementing it.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8380 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve
I love the ideal of an editorial Board that is why I first suggested one in late December or Early January. (Nerva, great mind do think alike, thanks)

Here is an idea not an edict, anybody who sends into the NR Eagle (1897 Wells Maine )at least $200.00 to the NR treasury for the use of the Eagle will get a seat on the Editorial board.

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:42 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"

Salvete Romani!

May I make a suggestion re: the Eagle? Would it be possible to establish an editorial board, similar to that of most major newspapers? This would address the concerns of Quintus Cassius that the Eagle, if properly financed, would become a partisan vehicle. C'mon guys (and gals), if we want to make the paper a going concern, we've got to get past all the pretension, and get on with it.

I'd certainly welcome the views of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus on this issue.

Valete

(as unpretentiously as possible), L. Suetonius Nerva


----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> --- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>"
> <richmal@a...> wrote:
>
> > Maybe what this teaches is that Nova Roma should
> > have an independent
> > press that is not subject to the political whimsy of
> > various
> > magistrates and the financial influence of the
> > Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
> Salve,
> Nova Roma Inc, a non profit organization is currenty
> liable for any shortfalls in the revenues of the
> "Eagle" and for any legal actions such as lible suits,
> Copyright infringement suits, or violations of
> Consumer protection laws for failure to deliver the
> product. As long as that is the situation the Board of
> Directors of Nova Roma Inc (the Senate) and the
> Officers of the Corporation (The Magistrates) would be
> remiss in thier Macronational legal duties to the
> Corparation if they failed to oversee the Business
> side of the "Eagle"

I am well aware of that. I think you misunderstood me. This veto
shows that the Eagle is too dependent upon the treasury. The Eagle
should be either breaking even or adding to the treasury not a slow
bleeding there of. Unfortunately, as long as The Eagle remains
virtually solely dependent upon the largesse (such as it is) of the
treasury its existance remains problematic. All it takes is one
article that a magistrate with Imperium doesn't like (ie a historical
article that undermines a political position) and voila one
intercesso later the Eagle is cut off from its source of operating
funds.

Q. Cassius Calvus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8381 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-25
Subject: Re: What Latin word can I use for pound that was used in ancient Ro
<equally mildly> I had not lost the gist of whom was
saying what to whom, merely voicing my support for
those amongst us who ask the seemingly "stupid"
question and end up getting to the answer that others
could not see because of the trees.....However, if my
comments were taken the wrong way,then I apologise to
anyone's who fur I ruffled-Anthony
--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:50:23AM -0800, Anthony
> Scott wrote:
> > That's the spririt we like to see! If s/he growls,
> > growl back, hold your ground, and never flinch!
> > Nothing annoys me more than someone's curiosity
> being
> > shot down.
>
> <mildly> You've lost your referent in the confusion
> of emails, all
> alike. Agricola was the one attacking Octavia Fabia
> Scriba for asking a
> question; if you read any of his previous emails,
> you'll see that it's a
> habit of his. He's also the one who's currently
> slavering, drooling, and
> frothing at the mouth because he can't find anything
> intelligent to say
> in his own defense. The purpose of my response to
> him was to show that
> his behavior is an aberration on this list.
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
> My conscience means more to me than all speech.
> -- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8382 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve T Labienus Fortunatus Consul

I know that both you and your esteemed colleague are very busy and are working, on a hundred fronts, for the benefit of Nova Roma citizens. I very much appreciate your post to the main list which I think clears up a great deal of misunderstanding that we have been experiencing of late. I also want to thank you for the kind words on the quality of the Eagle. This is solely the result of hard work and talent on the part of an incredible (international/Roman) staff. We have been very fortunate in the citizens who have come forward to loan their talents to the Eagle and Nova Roma. As always I look forward to working with you, your colleague and the Senate to keep the Eagle flying for years to come.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Fortunatus
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:23 PM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"

T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Ti Galerio Paulino Curatori SPD

I understand that you must feel "sandbagged" right now. My collega or I
should have said something at the time when we first saw your patronage
draft on the Novaromaeagle list. As it is, we are both working on a
variety of projects; my own time has been spent mostly preparing for the
collection of taxes. This doesn't excuse the lack of feedback you
received from us, but I hope that it does explain it to you. Hindsight,
as they say, is perfect. It most certainly was not our intent to
embarrass you.

There are several reasons why I support my collega's veto. First and
foremost, the Senate is currently voting on a measure that directly
concerns the Eagle's funding. As the Senate is the sole authority over
Nova Roma's purse strings, it does seem improper to create a policy
regarding fundraising for an official Nova Roman organ without first
waiting for the Senate to reach its decision on that measure.

Second, as the Senate is the sole authority over Nova Roma's treasury,
and as your patronage idea sets treasury policy, it is technically
illegal. This doesn't stop it from being a good idea. In my opinion,
it is an *excellent* idea, and one which will obviously net results.
Should the Eagle funding measure pass the Senate, you will have both the
authority necessary to create such a policy and my enthusiastic support
for doing so.

Third, the patronage idea obligates Nova Roma to produce the Eagle for
up to three years in the future. To date, we have had difficulties
providing the publication to those who have subscribed for a single
year. Therefore, my collega and I are somewhat leery of allowing Nova
Roma to incur such an obligation without the express agreement of the
Senate. If the measure before the Senate passes, your patronage idea
would therefore still need to be approved by the Senate. I, for one,
would be happy to place it on the agenda and argue for it.

Beyond the issue currently at hand, I also understand how terribly
frustrating it can be to attempt such initiatives in Nova Roma. The Res
Publica is extremely young and has never enjoyed a consistent,
professional government with which to establish firm and reasonable
ground rules for the collection and spending of money. After all, last
year was the first year in which we actually had an income. I hope that
you can understand that this makes things difficult for all of us, and
how it leads to an environment in which the government is both
tight-fisted and unwilling to incur obligations without a lot of
deliberation.

I also want to make it clear that I think you are the best curator
differum that Nova Roma has had to date. You have approached the
position with enthusiasm and energy, and have so far produced a superior
product. The patronage idea is, as I said, excellent. I sincerely hope
that we can get past the challenges that the early part of this year has
presented and move on to a smoother relationship. With luck, the
measure the Senate is currently voting on will both better define what
you need to get Senate approval for and give you the freedom necessary
to successfully carry out your job.

Vale
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8383 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"
Salve A. Apollonius Cordus

Thank you for your clear and clam words in a time of heated debate. My own post in response to the veto was a bit emotional, (as I have been told by others) as I was upset. While I stand by what I said , I might have revised it given the fullness of time. Again thank you for your very appropriate words.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:29 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Veto of one item in "The Eagle and your Patronage"

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I'm joining in with this discussion in the hope of
bringing some calm. Many emotive issues have got mixed
up here, and people are beginning to be perhaps unduly
upset. I'm going to try to separate out some of the
different strands of the issue, with the idea that
this will help us to think clearly.

First, there was Curator Galerius Paulinus' patronage
initiative. I believe everyone who has so far entered
this discussion is agreed that this is an excellent
idea, put forward with admirable intent.

The Curator put the idea forward in a forum other than
the main list first, in the earnest belief that any
objections to it would be picked up at this stage.
Since there is no clearly defined procedure by which a
magistrate can submit edicts for checking before he
publishes them, this was a perfectly sound course of
action, and it is admirable that he took such a
precaution.

The Senior Consul evidently by some or other mischance
did not spot the problem at that stage, and so was
able to bring up his objection only after the edict
had been formally published. This is indeed
regrettable. However, it is not the duty of the
Consuls to monitor closely the activity of every list
to which they subscribe, nor to check the edicts of
other magistrates before they are published. Moreover,
unless a petition was explicitly and formally
addressed to the consuls to check the edict, no duty
was upon them to do so. It is generally considered, I
think, the place of each magistrate to check his own
edicts.

It is, however, the duty of the Consuls to ensure the
observance of the law, and therefore it was
appropriate for Consul Quintilianus to veto this
particular item, as it was unconstitutional.

Up to this point, therefore, we can see that though
there have been some small deviations on both sides
from what would have been ideal, neither magistrate
has done anything other than his duty, and certainly
nothing reprehensible.

From this point, the debate has taken a number of
directions. In one, we have the issue of whether it is
appropriate for a media publication such as the Eagle
to be subject to government control. There is a danger
(though I must stress that Cassius Calvus, the
originator of this line of thinking, has made no such
claim at all) that some will see the Consul's veto in
this light as some sort of censorship. We should all
be quite clear: this veto in no way intereferes with
the content of the Eagle, nor does it in any way
disparage the Curator or his actions. There is a case
to be made for an independent press, and I would
certainly welcome the publication of a third NR
newspaper (the second being the on-line monthly Roman
Times). This, however, is some way off the main point.

Another issue which has come up is that of speed and
flexibility: some say, could the Consul not have been
lenient and let this item go past, seeing that it was
a good idea and might well have been perfectly legal
had it been delayed for a few days or weeks? Well,
sadly not.

Firstly, the law is the law, and the constitution even
more so (if you'll pardon my using an expression which
is in strict logical terms nonsense). Trespasses on
the constitution really cannot be allowed, however
admirable they may be in intent or effect, because the
constitution is the foundation of the state and the
basis of law and order in our society.

Secondly, when financial matters are at stake, there
is the added dimension of macronational law. As
Senator Sinicius Drusus and others have mentioned,
Nova Roma corporation is legally and financially
liable for the Eagle, and any expenditure or revenue
associated with it must be supervised by the Board of
Directors, i.e. the Senate. We should also consider
the individuals involved. A cheque has been sent and
received - though luckily not yet cashed. Had a veto
not been pronounced at this stage, the cheque might
have been cashed and even the money spent before the
edict was found to be unconstitutional, and then a
citizen would be out of pocket.

Thirdly, we should remember that the Roman system of
government is designed to be slow, and to err on the
side of caution. A veto is not a condemnation of an
action or of the person who made the action. It is
merely a safeguard. The Curator should not be at all
ashamed or embarrassed to have had part of an edict
vetoed - no one thinks any less of him as a result.
Many present and past magistrates have had actions
vetoed, and I can't think of any whose reputations
have suffered from it.

We had recently a episode which demonstrated how a
veto can be a constructive tool to improve a situation
and to address a problem. I'm thinking of the
Aedilician edicts. There is no reason why this cannot
happen again here. A good idea has been put forward:
there is a technical problem which means it can't be
put into effect immediately. A veto was used to make
sure nothing went wrong. Now, as is appropriate, the
veto can be the starting-point for further
constructive discussions, and can perhaps prompt
everyone involved - the Curator with his idea, the
Consul with his legal concerns, the Senate with their
motion on the table - to talk to one another and work
together, as happened after the veto of the Aedilician
edicts.

Sorry to go on at such length, but I hope that those
of you who have read this far have found at least some
of what I've said helpful or at least calming.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8384 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Salve Praetor Thank you for your kind words.

However I would like to make one small point. You said in part that

"The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an open
mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by others.

I agree completely but my ideal was not criticized with the ability to come back and debate and win over converts to my view, my idea was VETOED, killed at that moment and yes it may come back latter but it was killed, VETOED with what I felt was slim justification as no feedback had come to me when the information in my idea was a month old and known to both Consuls.

Having said this the Junior Consul has send a post that I believe helps to clear up some of the misunderstanding and as Roman do we move on.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum
Fortuna Favet Fortibus




----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:16 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] About recent events concerning "The Eagle"

Salvete Quirites.

I think that I can speak in the name of everyone in Nova Roma when I
say that we are very happy to have such an active editor. Our
Republic relies on enthusiasm, so a person who is willing to devote
time an energy to Nova Roma is always most than welcome.

However, we must keep one thing in mind. We all have different
interests. We all try to improve Nova Roma in different aspects. I,
for instance, am working in a legislative draft to further advance
Nova Roma's judicial system, even if most of you do not know it :-).

When so many different ideas and perspectives get into play,
collisions are a natural occurrence. In the past, I have presented
proposals on this very same list that were surprisingly (to me, at
least) *not* received with unanimous support and constant comments on
my brilliance :-). I have had to retire some of them, in order to
improve them after receiving feedback. But I have managed to
*convince* most of you of the goodness of my proposals in more than
one occasion.

The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an open
mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by others.

I am sure that these proposals about "The Eagle" will be reviewed by
the Senate in due time. After some discussion, I think that at least
most of them will be approved. This will take a few weeks, though,
because we all have many other projects and ideas, and there is just
one Senate and two Consuls.

So bear on with us. Take things with a grain of salt. Breath deeply
and smile :-). After all, isn't it nice to be part of such a
brilliant, active, struggling and entertaining Roman community?

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8385 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Salve, Octavia Fabia Scriba:

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:47:33PM -0000, biojournalism <biojournalism@...> wrote:
> Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind Greek-American
> writer of historical romance novels for asking how to say a word in
> Latin?

That was one of the reasons that I found Agricola's posts
unconscionable. I've enjoyed reading most of what you've had to say
here, found quite a lot of it thought-provoking, interesting, and
entertaining; in my estimation, you return far more than you ask for.

> I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking.

I don't think you stepped on anyone's toes; you did, however, run into
an irrational individual bent on pushing his agenda no matter the cost
to anyone else. Please, ignore it - it's far from normal behavior on
this list, and I'm sorry that you had to experience it.

> I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and research, and I had
> first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say pound in Latin,
> but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how many ways the
> dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere, pondus, libera,
> and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in ancient Rome that
> I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no royalty or
> compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma Times, starting
> in the March issue.

I have not yet had a chance to read it; I'll be certain to take the time
to do so. I believe that I'm not alone in saying "thank you" for your
contribution.

> So, what do you
> say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions by posting here
> as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong number, here?

I most sincerely hope that you continue to do just what you have been
doing; I also hope that you find many friends and much enjoyment here.
Please note that it's only one aberrant individual who has so singled
you out - and note that his ranting was not allowed to pass without
opposition.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt.
The sky, and not his soul, changes the one who runs across the sea.
-- Horace, "Epistulae"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8386 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Salve,

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 06:22:25PM -0500, John Walzer wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Could any citizen point me in the right direction on the topic of
> ancient Roman cuisine?

Take a look at this Google results page:

<http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Roman+cookery&num=100&as_oq=apicus+apicius>

Over 900 hits on recipes from a rather famous book by an AR gourmet.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Don't you know then, my son, how little wisdom rules the world?
-- Swedish chancellor Axel Oxenstierna to his son who was in doubt of
his own ability to represent Sweden at the Westphalian peace conference
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8387 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
My point exactly! My best science teacher ever
encouraged his students to think creatively and with
child-like wonder, with no question ever being
considered dumd or too unimportant.
Well put, maestro!(used in the context of teacher,
just for clarification.) As for these personal
attacks, well, no comment...
-Anthony
--- "biojournalism <biojournalism@...>"
<biojournalism@...> wrote:
> Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind
> Greek-American
> writer of historical romance novels for asking how
> to say a word in
> Latin? I have no thoughts of disharmony toward
> anyone, ever. This is
> a loving, fun group, and all of you get one big hug.
> I am fascinated
> by Roman history because I was reared in Greek
> American culture and
> religion, and really never had the time until now to
> find out what
> life was like in ancient Rome. So I'm learning, and
> it's a joy."
>
> I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking. I
> remember when I
> first joined Nova Roma I also asked to take a poll
> on whether the
> main character in my historical romance novel should
> be a physician
> or some other, and I got back in jest, I imagined,
> an answer that I
> should include a pimp, a lawyer, and a drunk. (In a
> family-oriented
> young teen novel?)
>
> Well, I thought if my novels for young adults are to
> remain sweet
> and family-oriented, a physician might make a better
> hero image as a
> man who heals. Anyway, as a granny of seven and
> long-retired and
> very unemployed English teacher, my only mission in
> life is to make
> life sweeter for everyone around me.
>
> So whatever you say, you still get one big hug, all
> of you. You know
> guys, I've been blind from glaucoma and macular
> degeneration for
> nearly a decade. I have multiple sclerosis and am in
> and out of my
> wheelchair. With only a little vision left, not
> much, magnification
> systems help me read this message board or put up my
> Web site and
> write poetry or stories or a novel now and then so I
> can keep in
> touch with the world as a mostly homebased person.
>
> I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and
> research, and I had
> first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say
> pound in Latin,
> but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how
> many ways the
> dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere,
> pondus, libera,
> and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in
> ancient Rome that
> I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no
> royalty or
> compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma
> Times, starting
> in the March issue.
>
> This is my act of volunteerism as a nearly blind
> homebased senior
> citizen. What more can I do? I'm not employed or
> earning money. So
> this is the only way I can do my part of public
> service as I have no
> income and am dependent on family charity. So why
> someone has to
> single me out for simply asking a question merely on
> how to say one
> word....Well....you go figure the Internet. Yet the
> Internet is my
> prime connection to the outside world. What else is
> there to go to--
> another eye surgery appointment? Life should be more
> than pain. And
> I joined Nova Roma to learn what life was like in
> ancient times,
> especially the foods.
>
> So regardless of whatever anyone says, I only offer
> sweetness and a
> hug to the world. This is Granny Theodakis, here,
> apple pie and
> baklava. I can't please everybody, but at least I
> smile and feed
> anyone who's hungry. What more can I do for you to
> be of service?
> You can have almost anything, but the one thing I
> don't have is
> money or income. It's hard to find a job at 62 when
> you're blind and
> have been wheelchair bound with MS for 18 years. So,
> what do you
> say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions
> by posting here
> as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong
> number, here?
>
> My gut feeling is that if I want information, I
> should look it up
> online or call most any university professor. A
> teacher would be
> more likely to answer my questions. I thought
> journalists are
> supposed to interview people to get information. In
> the future, to
> be more professional, I'd be better off interviewing
> experts on what
> I want answered and rewarding them by an article
> that offers free
> publicity benefits to them, if they so desire. What
> do you people
> think? In the meantime, the enthusiam I received
> came only from
> emailing randomly the classics dept. of a university
> and asking the
> question--anyone know how to write three thousand
> pounds of pepper
> in Latin? Teachers were pleased someone cared to ask
> and answered
> readily. And I made a new friend. That's the whole
> idea why I joined
> Nova Roma...to make a new friend.
>
> Harmony to all,
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8388 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Salve Octavia Fabia,
Please continue to ask your Questions. They are not
only providing a learning experance for you, but for
all of our citizens, and that is a value in itself.
You are increasing our citizens cultural knowledge of
our Roman hieratage, and that is something this list
needs more of.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator

--- "biojournalism <biojournalism@...>"
<biojournalism@...> wrote:
> Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind
> Greek-American
> writer of historical romance novels for asking how
> to say a word in
> Latin? I have no thoughts of disharmony toward
> anyone, ever. This is
> a loving, fun group, and all of you get one big hug.
> I am fascinated
> by Roman history because I was reared in Greek
> American culture and
> religion, and really never had the time until now to
> find out what
> life was like in ancient Rome. So I'm learning, and
> it's a joy."
>
> I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking. I
> remember when I
> first joined Nova Roma I also asked to take a poll
> on whether the
> main character in my historical romance novel should
> be a physician
> or some other, and I got back in jest, I imagined,
> an answer that I
> should include a pimp, a lawyer, and a drunk. (In a
> family-oriented
> young teen novel?)
>
> Well, I thought if my novels for young adults are to
> remain sweet
> and family-oriented, a physician might make a better
> hero image as a
> man who heals. Anyway, as a granny of seven and
> long-retired and
> very unemployed English teacher, my only mission in
> life is to make
> life sweeter for everyone around me.
>
> So whatever you say, you still get one big hug, all
> of you. You know
> guys, I've been blind from glaucoma and macular
> degeneration for
> nearly a decade. I have multiple sclerosis and am in
> and out of my
> wheelchair. With only a little vision left, not
> much, magnification
> systems help me read this message board or put up my
> Web site and
> write poetry or stories or a novel now and then so I
> can keep in
> touch with the world as a mostly homebased person.
>
> I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and
> research, and I had
> first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say
> pound in Latin,
> but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how
> many ways the
> dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere,
> pondus, libera,
> and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in
> ancient Rome that
> I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no
> royalty or
> compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma
> Times, starting
> in the March issue.
>
> This is my act of volunteerism as a nearly blind
> homebased senior
> citizen. What more can I do? I'm not employed or
> earning money. So
> this is the only way I can do my part of public
> service as I have no
> income and am dependent on family charity. So why
> someone has to
> single me out for simply asking a question merely on
> how to say one
> word....Well....you go figure the Internet. Yet the
> Internet is my
> prime connection to the outside world. What else is
> there to go to--
> another eye surgery appointment? Life should be more
> than pain. And
> I joined Nova Roma to learn what life was like in
> ancient times,
> especially the foods.
>
> So regardless of whatever anyone says, I only offer
> sweetness and a
> hug to the world. This is Granny Theodakis, here,
> apple pie and
> baklava. I can't please everybody, but at least I
> smile and feed
> anyone who's hungry. What more can I do for you to
> be of service?
> You can have almost anything, but the one thing I
> don't have is
> money or income. It's hard to find a job at 62 when
> you're blind and
> have been wheelchair bound with MS for 18 years. So,
> what do you
> say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions
> by posting here
> as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong
> number, here?
>
> My gut feeling is that if I want information, I
> should look it up
> online or call most any university professor. A
> teacher would be
> more likely to answer my questions. I thought
> journalists are
> supposed to interview people to get information. In
> the future, to
> be more professional, I'd be better off interviewing
> experts on what
> I want answered and rewarding them by an article
> that offers free
> publicity benefits to them, if they so desire. What
> do you people
> think? In the meantime, the enthusiam I received
> came only from
> emailing randomly the classics dept. of a university
> and asking the
> question--anyone know how to write three thousand
> pounds of pepper
> in Latin? Teachers were pleased someone cared to ask
> and answered
> readily. And I made a new friend. That's the whole
> idea why I joined
> Nova Roma...to make a new friend.
>
> Harmony to all,
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8389 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: NR Land Project -- We need your input
Salvete,

The Land Project has been set by the Declaration of Nova Roma:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html

This project needs the input of the citizens of Nova Roma in order to know what are their
expectations. If you had not done so, it will take you only a few minutes to give your
ideas by filling up the form at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Land_Project/public/submission.html

Nova Roma needs your help!! Participate to our growth!!

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae
NRLandProject


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8390 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: On loss: Testament of Malkhos
Salve Malkhos,

My deepest sympathy to you on the loss of your daughter. But don't look
back, and don't let the grief overtake you. Look forward to the future and
to having a little boy named Julian!! We can't keep focusing on who is gone
but have to remember all of the wonderful people who still bring the
sunshine into our lives. This is really the only thing we can do.
Unfortunately, I know this from recent experience. We all have to just hang
on to eachother and ride the storms.

And to Anthony, the same goes for you too. Your little girl is lucky to have
found you as a father. I will hope for a miracle, but if none happens, try
to remember that your daughter could have ended up alone in some orphanage
with no one to love her or care. You've done well, no matter what her future
brings.

Vale,
Diana Moravia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8391 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: recent 'heated' posts
Salvete citizens,

My rather fluffy bunny philosphy is this:

Life is very difficult at times and while we are on this Earth together, we
should be as kind and understanding of eachother as we possibly can. If we
all did that, all of our lives would be brighter, no matter what bumps the
Fates may place in our paths. After reading some of the recent posts, I
would like to remind everyone that a bit of kindness and understanding goes
a long long way !!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8392 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Ave,

I really think that many of us are probably getting a bit tired of the ad hominem attacks between you and Agricola. For the sake of a bit of tranquility on this list can you both please put each other in a kill file or respond to each other privately. That way the ML can be used what it was intended for, a forum where information can be exchanged and where people can learn new ideas and grow as individuals.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Ask yourself this question


Salve, Octavia Fabia Scriba:

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 10:47:33PM -0000, biojournalism <biojournalism@...> wrote:
> Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind Greek-American
> writer of historical romance novels for asking how to say a word in
> Latin?

That was one of the reasons that I found Agricola's posts
unconscionable. I've enjoyed reading most of what you've had to say
here, found quite a lot of it thought-provoking, interesting, and
entertaining; in my estimation, you return far more than you ask for.

> I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking.

I don't think you stepped on anyone's toes; you did, however, run into
an irrational individual bent on pushing his agenda no matter the cost
to anyone else. Please, ignore it - it's far from normal behavior on
this list, and I'm sorry that you had to experience it.

> I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and research, and I had
> first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say pound in Latin,
> but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how many ways the
> dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere, pondus, libera,
> and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in ancient Rome that
> I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no royalty or
> compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma Times, starting
> in the March issue.

I have not yet had a chance to read it; I'll be certain to take the time
to do so. I believe that I'm not alone in saying "thank you" for your
contribution.

> So, what do you
> say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions by posting here
> as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong number, here?

I most sincerely hope that you continue to do just what you have been
doing; I also hope that you find many friends and much enjoyment here.
Please note that it's only one aberrant individual who has so singled
you out - and note that his ranting was not allowed to pass without
opposition.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt.
The sky, and not his soul, changes the one who runs across the sea.
-- Horace, "Epistulae"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8393 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: ABOUT THE EAGLE, VETOES, AND PERSONALITIES (AS I SEE IT)
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to S.F.D. Salvete.

My esteemed cousin, Tiberius Galerius, is a fine magistrate of NR and enjoys the support of most of the active populace in his efforts to make The Eagle an outstanding newsletter. His plans for patronage membership are in the very best traditions of the Archaeological Institute of America and the Medieval Academy of America. I have no doubt that his plans will ultimately be adopted by the Consuls and the Senate. We should continue to support The Eagle by subscription, buying mugs and mouse pads, and providing articles. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is an outstanding example of the very best of our magistrates and citizens.
Caeso Fabius Quintilius is also a fine magistrate and his past actions as a magistrate and current actions as the Senior Consul should be supported by the citizens of NR. He is usually so erudite and skilled in English that it is usually forgotten that English is not his mother tongue. He has gathered some of the most active membership into his consular cohors for the purpose of advancing the Republic. His organization gives guidance and purpose under an overall plan of improvement of our organization. His decisions are not always popular but they are within his consular powers and (almost always) backed by the Constitution. Due to his work as a teacher and active citizen of his macronation, it sometimes takes him a few days to respond to posts, letters, and other communications from our citizens. I believe we should all cut him, the Junior Consul, and the other elected magistrates some slack and continue to render him our loyalty and support.
G. B. Agricola is an active citizen who has some good ideas for the Republic and wishes it to advance quickly in the macronational world. Here in the South, we would call him "a pushy Yankee" but I have enjoyed his dry sense of humor and his ability to laugh at himself and others without malice; although he can be somewhat ascerbic. One does not have to agree with some of his comments but if you feel the need to say something to him, I strongly suggest you do it through a private email.
It says something about all these citizens that we know a great deal about them (real names, addresses, telephone numbers, plans, projects, occupations, and emails) and they put themselves at the service of NR and all of us. Let us pray to the Gods that Nova Roma will always enjoy the active participation of talented individuals who give of themselves, their talents, and their assets to NR and its citizens. Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8394 From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Edictum Propraetoricium
Ex Officio Propraetoris Germaniae

Edictum Propraetoricium
about the Establishment of the Schola Latina Germanorum


I. The Schola Latina Germanorum is hereby established as an
institution of the province of Germania. It´s mission will be
training in the latin language.

II. A mailinglist shall be established for the Schola Latina
Germanorum.

III. Citizen Aulus Quinctilius Taurus is hereby appointed as
Grammaticus with the rank of Scriba Propraetoris. He is obliged with
the management of the Schola Latina Germanorum.

Given february 26 in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.

Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Propraetor Germaniae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8395 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Negative List
Master Agricola;

I am not sure to what I owe your remark regarding my supposed criticism
of your utterings on this list, or my apparent inclusion on the subject
List.

As I recall it was you who came to me asking for an assignment in NR,
and I provided one when you were new here. I have not heard of your
success in that appointment from either of the gentlemenappointed to
oversee your efforts, so I cannot well evaluate your work in NR, that
you have completed in this requested task.

As to your vaporings on this list, I do not agree with them simply for
the reason that they do not, in my opinion, move this micronation
forward. I do not know you except by your words, and they have shown me
to date that you have nothing I want or need.

If I have in the past indicated some assignment of criticism to you,
that your words do not deserve, then you have my apologies.

You must realize that being defended by the likes of Sulla,
automatically raises my defenses very significantly, based on his past
instability. That is unfortunate, of course, and perhaps not
alltogether his fault, but it gives me pause nevertheless.

In regard to the Honorable Consul Quintillianus, English is not his
Primary language. He is Swedish, and is a successful educator in his
own country, with a solid history of success behind his efforts in
several aspects to date. He has shown a remarkable apptitude to "moving
Nova Roma" along, has generated sme vey unique ideas, and has followed
them up with his consumate ability at organization and the ability to
draw others into his ideas, and create something very concrete from
them. Something that you have yet to show here in NR. We
(Quintillianus and I) have met face-to-face, and I was impressed by his
honesty, his desire to work with and for Nova Roma in a productive way,
and to try and address some of the concerns wrought by others in the
past. As with anyone who does not use English as a first language, I
try to look deeper into the person than his / her ability in a second
language, keeping in mind that such a person has mastered communication
in two languages, as opposed to my mere one. He is also a kind man, who
does not use insult, innuendo or snide remarks to make his point or to
move along his efforts, and those who support him in NR, have solid, and
honest reasons for doing so.

I am sorry that you seem to have included me as someone who has
improperly commented upon your offerings to this list, however, you
logic and reasoning escapes me if your purpose is to help NR, nor do
they seem to be of any great advantage to Nova Roma, and it is more than
clear that your ability to wound others is as effective as a razor-sharp
knife. In my view, your use of that weapon frequently and with a
subsequent deadly accuracy is not one of the required attributes for an
attempt to assist in the development of this micronation.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8396 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Negative List
I deeply apologize. I mixed your name up with someone else. However, if you
think you have never criticised me, you're wrong. Read infra. If you don't
consider it insulting, then you're on a different planet. As for Sulla's
"instability", another insult. I will not suffer yours, or anyone else's,
pasive-aggresive nuances in e-mails.

I've written an article for the Eagle, am working on a second one, and
devote a significant amount of my personal time to the sestertius group. I
thank you for your initial patronage. If you think you've made a bad choice,
I'm sorry.

As to the honorable consul's English, I thought it was merely a typo, or
intentional spin, and did not suspect English was a second language for him.
You people take yourselves way to seriuosly. You need to lighten up. If our
forefathers are looking down on us today, they might be offended by my
behaviour, but I can't imagine they would be pleased by the unceasing stream
of criticism that flows from some citizens in here. You all have your vision
of NR. I have mine. I envision it as a place to realize the full spectrum of
what the Republic was, not simply what you or a chosen few think it should
be. If you believe you know all there is to know about the Republic, thats
great. But don't believe you hold a monopoly on the mos maiorum.



Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: jmath669642reng@... [mailto:jmath669642reng@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Negative List


Master Agricola;

I am not sure to what I owe your remark regarding my supposed criticism
of your utterings on this list, or my apparent inclusion on the subject
List.

As I recall it was you who came to me asking for an assignment in NR,
and I provided one when you were new here. I have not heard of your
success in that appointment from either of the gentlemenappointed to
oversee your efforts, so I cannot well evaluate your work in NR, that
you have completed in this requested task.

As to your vaporings on this list, I do not agree with them simply for
the reason that they do not, in my opinion, move this micronation
forward. I do not know you except by your words, and they have shown me
to date that you have nothing I want or need.

If I have in the past indicated some assignment of criticism to you,
that your words do not deserve, then you have my apologies.

You must realize that being defended by the likes of Sulla,
automatically raises my defenses very significantly, based on his past
instability. That is unfortunate, of course, and perhaps not
alltogether his fault, but it gives me pause nevertheless.

In regard to the Honorable Consul Quintillianus, English is not his
Primary language. He is Swedish, and is a successful educator in his
own country, with a solid history of success behind his efforts in
several aspects to date. He has shown a remarkable apptitude to "moving
Nova Roma" along, has generated sme vey unique ideas, and has followed
them up with his consumate ability at organization and the ability to
draw others into his ideas, and create something very concrete from
them. Something that you have yet to show here in NR. We
(Quintillianus and I) have met face-to-face, and I was impressed by his
honesty, his desire to work with and for Nova Roma in a productive way,
and to try and address some of the concerns wrought by others in the
past. As with anyone who does not use English as a first language, I
try to look deeper into the person than his / her ability in a second
language, keeping in mind that such a person has mastered communication
in two languages, as opposed to my mere one. He is also a kind man, who
does not use insult, innuendo or snide remarks to make his point or to
move along his efforts, and those who support him in NR, have solid, and
honest reasons for doing so.

I am sorry that you seem to have included me as someone who has
improperly commented upon your offerings to this list, however, you
logic and reasoning escapes me if your purpose is to help NR, nor do
they seem to be of any great advantage to Nova Roma, and it is more than
clear that your ability to wound others is as effective as a razor-sharp
knife. In my view, your use of that weapon frequently and with a
subsequent deadly accuracy is not one of the required attributes for an
attempt to assist in the development of this micronation.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8397 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
On a related note, does anyone know what plant "laserpicium" is related to?
I read an article on MSNBC that said when the Romans finally firmally
acquired Africa province that they ate the stuff into extinction. However,
I've seen modern sites with recipes on it that call for laserpicium as an
ingredient.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A question re: ancient Roman cuisine


Salve,

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 06:22:25PM -0500, John Walzer wrote:
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Could any citizen point me in the right direction on the topic of
> ancient Roman cuisine?

Take a look at this Google results page:


<http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Roman+cookery&num=100&as_oq=apicus+apiciu
s>

Over 900 hits on recipes from a rather famous book by an AR gourmet.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Don't you know then, my son, how little wisdom rules the world?
-- Swedish chancellor Axel Oxenstierna to his son who was in doubt of
his own ability to represent Sweden at the Westphalian peace conference

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8398 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Ask yourself this question
Ave Octavia

I never intended anything I've ever said to you as an "attack". If it is
perceived so, or characterized that way by the more malicious members of our
group, I can't help that. And I empathize with your present state of health.
I still stand by my inquiry.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
[mailto:biojournalism@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:48 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ask yourself this question


Why would anyone attack a 62-year old legally blind Greek-American
writer of historical romance novels for asking how to say a word in
Latin? I have no thoughts of disharmony toward anyone, ever. This is
a loving, fun group, and all of you get one big hug. I am fascinated
by Roman history because I was reared in Greek American culture and
religion, and really never had the time until now to find out what
life was like in ancient Rome. So I'm learning, and it's a joy."

I can't imagine whose toes I stepped on by asking. I remember when I
first joined Nova Roma I also asked to take a poll on whether the
main character in my historical romance novel should be a physician
or some other, and I got back in jest, I imagined, an answer that I
should include a pimp, a lawyer, and a drunk. (In a family-oriented
young teen novel?)

Well, I thought if my novels for young adults are to remain sweet
and family-oriented, a physician might make a better hero image as a
man who heals. Anyway, as a granny of seven and long-retired and
very unemployed English teacher, my only mission in life is to make
life sweeter for everyone around me.

So whatever you say, you still get one big hug, all of you. You know
guys, I've been blind from glaucoma and macular degeneration for
nearly a decade. I have multiple sclerosis and am in and out of my
wheelchair. With only a little vision left, not much, magnification
systems help me read this message board or put up my Web site and
write poetry or stories or a novel now and then so I can keep in
touch with the world as a mostly homebased person.

I write fiction for the joy of knowledge and research, and I had
first gone to the dictionary to find out how to say pound in Latin,
but so far, it hasn't been specific. Do you know how many ways the
dictionary says to write 'pound'? Pondera, pondere, pondus, libera,
and so on. I've written a 60,000 word novel set in ancient Rome that
I have given to Nova Roma absolutely free, no royalty or
compensation, which is being serialized in Nova Roma Times, starting
in the March issue.

This is my act of volunteerism as a nearly blind homebased senior
citizen. What more can I do? I'm not employed or earning money. So
this is the only way I can do my part of public service as I have no
income and am dependent on family charity. So why someone has to
single me out for simply asking a question merely on how to say one
word....Well....you go figure the Internet. Yet the Internet is my
prime connection to the outside world. What else is there to go to--
another eye surgery appointment? Life should be more than pain. And
I joined Nova Roma to learn what life was like in ancient times,
especially the foods.

So regardless of whatever anyone says, I only offer sweetness and a
hug to the world. This is Granny Theodakis, here, apple pie and
baklava. I can't please everybody, but at least I smile and feed
anyone who's hungry. What more can I do for you to be of service?
You can have almost anything, but the one thing I don't have is
money or income. It's hard to find a job at 62 when you're blind and
have been wheelchair bound with MS for 18 years. So, what do you
say, my friends, should I not ask any more questions by posting here
as a way of making friends? Or did I reach the wrong number, here?

My gut feeling is that if I want information, I should look it up
online or call most any university professor. A teacher would be
more likely to answer my questions. I thought journalists are
supposed to interview people to get information. In the future, to
be more professional, I'd be better off interviewing experts on what
I want answered and rewarding them by an article that offers free
publicity benefits to them, if they so desire. What do you people
think? In the meantime, the enthusiam I received came only from
emailing randomly the classics dept. of a university and asking the
question--anyone know how to write three thousand pounds of pepper
in Latin? Teachers were pleased someone cared to ask and answered
readily. And I made a new friend. That's the whole idea why I joined
Nova Roma...to make a new friend.

Harmony to all,

Octavia Fabia Scriba






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8399 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur
<salixastur@y...>" <salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> I think that I can speak in the name of everyone in Nova Roma when
I
> say that we are very happy to have such an active editor. Our
> Republic relies on enthusiasm, so a person who is willing to devote
> time an energy to Nova Roma is always most than welcome.
>
> However, we must keep one thing in mind. We all have different
> interests. We all try to improve Nova Roma in different aspects. I,
> for instance, am working in a legislative draft to further advance
> Nova Roma's judicial system, even if most of you do not know it :-).
>
> When so many different ideas and perspectives get into play,
> collisions are a natural occurrence. In the past, I have presented
> proposals on this very same list that were surprisingly (to me, at
> least) *not* received with unanimous support and constant comments
on
> my brilliance :-). I have had to retire some of them, in order to
> improve them after receiving feedback. But I have managed to
> *convince* most of you of the goodness of my proposals in more than
> one occasion.
>
> The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an
open
> mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by
others.
>
> I am sure that these proposals about "The Eagle" will be reviewed
by
> the Senate in due time. After some discussion, I think that at
least
> most of them will be approved. This will take a few weeks, though,
> because we all have many other projects and ideas, and there is
just
> one Senate and two Consuls.
>
> So bear on with us. Take things with a grain of salt. Breath deeply
> and smile :-). After all, isn't it nice to be part of such a
> brilliant, active, struggling and entertaining Roman community?
>
> CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
> PRAETOR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8400 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: ABOUT THE EAGLE, VETOES, AND PERSONALITIES (AS I SEE IT)
"Pushy Yankee" LOL!!!

Ok. I'll go for that. However, my mom is Greek from Virginia, and my dad is
Italian from Missouri. I don't think either of them consider themselves
yankees, and I know my mother and yi yi would be horrified to hear someone
call me that.

Lets keep this to ourselves.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... [mailto:PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:23 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ABOUT THE EAGLE, VETOES, AND PERSONALITIES (AS I SEE
IT)


F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to S.F.D. Salvete.

My esteemed cousin, Tiberius Galerius, is a fine magistrate of NR and
enjoys the support of most of the active populace in his efforts to make The
Eagle an outstanding newsletter. His plans for patronage membership are in
the very best traditions of the Archaeological Institute of America and the
Medieval Academy of America. I have no doubt that his plans will ultimately
be adopted by the Consuls and the Senate. We should continue to support The
Eagle by subscription, buying mugs and mouse pads, and providing articles.
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is an outstanding example of the very best of our
magistrates and citizens.
Caeso Fabius Quintilius is also a fine magistrate and his past actions as
a magistrate and current actions as the Senior Consul should be supported by
the citizens of NR. He is usually so erudite and skilled in English that it
is usually forgotten that English is not his mother tongue. He has gathered
some of the most active membership into his consular cohors for the purpose
of advancing the Republic. His organization gives guidance and purpose
under an overall plan of improvement of our organization. His decisions are
not always popular but they are within his consular powers and (almost
always) backed by the Constitution. Due to his work as a teacher and active
citizen of his macronation, it sometimes takes him a few days to respond to
posts, letters, and other communications from our citizens. I believe we
should all cut him, the Junior Consul, and the other elected magistrates
some slack and continue to render him our loyalty and support.
G. B. Agricola is an active citizen who has some good ideas for the
Republic and wishes it to advance quickly in the macronational world. Here
in the South, we would call him "a pushy Yankee" but I have enjoyed his dry
sense of humor and his ability to laugh at himself and others without
malice; although he can be somewhat ascerbic. One does not have to agree
with some of his comments but if you feel the need to say something to him,
I strongly suggest you do it through a private email.
It says something about all these citizens that we know a great deal about
them (real names, addresses, telephone numbers, plans, projects,
occupations, and emails) and they put themselves at the service of NR and
all of us. Let us pray to the Gods that Nova Roma will always enjoy the
active participation of talented individuals who give of themselves, their
talents, and their assets to NR and its citizens. Valete.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8401 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
Ave Diana

I agree wholeheartedly. We need a God to worshipp who represents harmony on
e-mail lists. I hereby vote you high priestess of the Cult of Garrula
Loquacitas. I will also be designing a somewhat revealing robe for your new
priesthood.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina [mailto:diana@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:09 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] recent 'heated' posts


Salvete citizens,

My rather fluffy bunny philosphy is this:

Life is very difficult at times and while we are on this Earth together,
we
should be as kind and understanding of eachother as we possibly can. If we
all did that, all of our lives would be brighter, no matter what bumps the
Fates may place in our paths. After reading some of the recent posts, I
would like to remind everyone that a bit of kindness and understanding
goes
a long long way !!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8402 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur
<salixastur@y...>" <salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites.

Salve collega,

> The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an
>open mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by
>others. I am sure that these proposals about "The Eagle" will be
>reviewed by the Senate in due time. After some discussion, I think
>that at least most of them will be approved. This will take a few
>weeks, though, because we all have many other projects and ideas,
>and there is just one Senate and two Consuls.

Actually there will be no need for the Senate to review these items.
The Senate is currently voting (again) on an item that will give the
Curator Differum the power to raise funds by means of his own
creation. Once that is done the Curator Differum would be legally
empowered to reissue his edict, whereas he was not before. I believe
the Consul issued his veto because the fund raising idea was released
too early, in advance of the senate vote.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8403 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
Salve Agricola,

>We need a God to worshipp who represents harmony on
> e-mail lists.
We already have a Goddess of Harmony: Harmonia, the daughter of Mars and
Venus.

<I hereby vote you high priestess of the Cult of Garrula
< Loquacitas.
You have me at a loss. I am nearly afraid to ask what Garrula Loquacitas
means :-p

>I will also be designing a somewhat revealing robe for your new
> priesthood.
LOL! So we can add clothes designing to your many talents! Perhaps you
should start a line of erotic toga wear for those romantic evenings? And I
do hope that you'll design an equally revealing muscled currais to properly
showcase your finely developed body. :-))) We ladies are still waiting
breathlessly for your photo to appear in the Albium Gentium by the way.


Vale,
Diana Moravia
PS: (Sorry but I don't remember how to spell 'curaiss'




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8404 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: 62 year old author
Octavia Fabia Scriba;

I am not sure if you are the person who asked about older members of
Nova Roma, but I am a crusty 67 years of age.

I would also be a fiction writer if I had any skill at it, but
unfortuneately (or perhaps fortunately) my skills lie in other areas.

Joining with my Gens mate I would ask that you not judge all of NR by
the rasping remarks of one citizen. Most of those who are active in the
micronation here are serious about what we do, and are careful to
consider the feelngs of others.

That is not to say, that there is no debate, however, for the most part
the actions of the NR Citizens are directed towards the growth of Nova
Roma.

So I most heartily welcome you to Nova Roma, and am pleased to make your
aquaintance. If there is anything that I can do to assist you in NR
plase fell free to contact me.

Respectfully and Sincerely;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Senator, Consular, and Sodalitas Praefectus

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8405 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: recent 'heated' posts
In a message dated 2/26/03 7:12:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, diana@...
writes:


> Life is very difficult at times and while we are on this Earth together, we
> should be as kind and understanding of eachother as we possibly can. If we
> all did that, all of our lives would be brighter, no matter what bumps the
> Fates may place in our paths. After reading some of the recent posts, I
> would like to remind everyone that a bit of kindness and understanding goes
> a long long way !!
>
>

Thank you for this uplifting post, Diana Moravia. It does us all good to
remember this
in our day to day dealings with people.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8406 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: A time of Grief
It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
could not.
After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
is a universal language.
Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
fitting.
Thank you for your attention.

"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
"I'll either find a way or invent one!"

Anthony Scott
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8407 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
I extend my heartfelt sympathy for your loss. When I find myself in
distress, I flee to philosophy. Perhaps this will help:

"With regard to whatever objects either delight the mind, or contribute to
use, or are loved with fondness, remember to tell yourself of what nature
they are, beginning from the most trifling things. If you are fond of an
earthen cup, remind yourself it is an earthen cup of which you are fond;
thus, if it be broken, you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your child, or
your wife, remember you kiss a being subject to the accidents of humanity;
thus you will not be disturbed if either die.

Men are disturbed, not by things, but by their own notions regarding them.

Be not elated over excellences not your own. If a horse should be elated and
say, 'I am handsome,' it would be supportable. But when you are elated and
say, 'I have a handsome horse,' you are elated on what is, in fact, only the
good of the horse.

Require not things to happen as you wish, but wish them to happen as they do
happen. Then all will go well.

In every happening, inquire of your mind how to turn it to proper account.

Never say of anything, 'I have lost it,' but 'I have restored it.' Is your
child dead? It is restored. Is your wife dead? She is restored. Is your
estate taken away from you? Well, and is not that likewise restored? 'But he
who took it away is a bad man.' What is it to you by whose hands He who gave
it hath demanded it again? While He gives you to possess it, take care of
it, but as of something not your own, like a passenger in an inn."

On Surrender To The Will of God
Epictetus

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Scott <optio456@...> [mailto:optio456@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:51 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A time of Grief


It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
could not.
After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
is a universal language.
Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
fitting.
Thank you for your attention.

"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
"I'll either find a way or invent one!"

Anthony Scott


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8408 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Apicius. But NOT the Vehling translation. Vehling was a chef who knew cooking a lot better than Latin and what chef ever acknowledged any way of cooking other than his own?

Caesariensis.
-----Original Message-----
From : John Walzer <jwalzer5@...>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
CC : biojournalism@... : 25 February 2003 23:22:25
Subject : [Nova-Roma] A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
Salvete Omnes:
>
> Could any citizen point me in the right direction on the topic of ancient Roman cuisine?
>

"Make Love not Profit"



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8409 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: It's time to vote!
Salvete Plebeian citizens!

The third run-off election for the 2 vacant offices of Tribunus Plebis is
now under way! If you are a Plebeian citizen, please go to
http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'. Voting will continue until
Thursday March 6, 18:01 Roman Time, but why wait? Vote now!

Only Plebeian citizens may vote in this election. Not sure if you are a
Plebeian? No problem. Just go to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes
Find the name of your gens (they are listed alphabetically). Two columns to
the right of your Gens name, click on the 'number of cives'. A new page
opens that contains a listing of all the citizens in your Gens. The word
'Patrician' or 'Plebeian' will be written on the left beneath the name of
your Gens. If it says 'Plebeian' then you need to vote!

If you don't remember your voter code or are a new citizen, again, no
problem. You can have it automatically mailed to you by doing the following:

Follow the same procedure as mentioned above. When you reach the page
listing all of the citizens in your Gens, locate your name and click on the
link. On the new page you'll see a box which contains information about you.
Click on "Get voter code". On the new page, enter your year of birth and
click 'request voter code'. Your voter code will be emailed to you. Once you
have your voter code, go to http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'.

Thank you for your interest in this election!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8410 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Salve,

you have all the sympathy from Gallia. If I can be of any help, please do not hesitate.

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae


--- "Anthony Scott <optio456@...>" <optio456@...> wrote:
> It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
> natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
> struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
> short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
> could not.
> After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
> although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
> about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
> is a universal language.
> Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
> reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
> Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
> fitting.
> Thank you for your attention.
>
> "Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
> "I'll either find a way or invent one!"
>
> Anthony Scott
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8411 From: William Cornett Polanco Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Anthony Scott,

My deepest condolences to you. I fear that at moments like these I know not what to say. If there is anything you need, please don't hesitate to ask.

Sextus Iulius Serranus
"Anthony Scott <optio456@...>" <optio456@...> wrote:It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
could not.
After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
is a universal language.
Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
fitting.
Thank you for your attention.

"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
"I'll either find a way or invent one!"

Anthony Scott


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8412 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Scott <optio456@y...>"
<optio456@y...> scripsit:
> It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
> natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
> struggle.

Please accept my deepest condolences on the loss of your darling
daughter and know that you have the heartfelt sympathy of Provincia
AmericaBoreoccidentalis -- and indeed of all cives NovaRomani -- with
you at in this time of loss and grief. We are with you wherever you --
and she -- may go.

---
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis
|||| http://ambor.novaroma.org
Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8413 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A question re: ancient Roman cuisine
-----Original Message-----
From : jlasalle <jlasalle@...>

On a related note, does anyone know what plant “laserpicium“ is related to?
>I read an article on MSNBC that said when the Romans finally firmally
>
The usual substitute is asa foetida - whatever that comes from. General consensus seems to have been giant fennel, the stalks also being used for tubing purposses (as might be bamboo elsewhere). The next question is whether giant fennel really is extinct or whether it's known under a different name and whether it's fennel at all. For instance, it might have been a secret way of preparing something wellknown, like Hemlock. It would have been in the interest of merchants to keep the original secret, so you can imagine Roman entrepreneurs standing in a field of the stuff being assured that what they were looking for was something else altogether.
Most of the [huge] fennel family are poisonous, particularly the watery ones, of which rather a lot. The best Silphium, said to be extinct when it is first mentioned, came from Iran, the next best from the Nile Delta. Both places are hot and wet so it may have been a slightly poisonous variety. Romans ate poisonous plants (and lead) without realising it. After all, we smoke tobacco... It could not have been Giant Hogweed, about the biggest of that family, because that really is poisonous enough to bring tender skin out in a serious rash and is a Siberian native.
Something else mentioned in Apicius is probably Alexanders, not used now but a smaller related, like a bright yellowy-green stout celery with yellow flowers. Same family: all those like either running water or sandy conditions and hot. (Lovage stalk dried has a good 'meaty' flavour reminiscent of Mar/VegeMite)

Caesariensis.

"Make Love not Profit"



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8414 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
I just voted yesterday. Is this a new one?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina [mailto:diana@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:47 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] It's time to vote!


Salvete Plebeian citizens!

The third run-off election for the 2 vacant offices of Tribunus Plebis is
now under way! If you are a Plebeian citizen, please go to
http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'. Voting will continue until
Thursday March 6, 18:01 Roman Time, but why wait? Vote now!

Only Plebeian citizens may vote in this election. Not sure if you are a
Plebeian? No problem. Just go to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes
Find the name of your gens (they are listed alphabetically). Two columns
to
the right of your Gens name, click on the 'number of cives'. A new page
opens that contains a listing of all the citizens in your Gens. The word
'Patrician' or 'Plebeian' will be written on the left beneath the name of
your Gens. If it says 'Plebeian' then you need to vote!

If you don't remember your voter code or are a new citizen, again, no
problem. You can have it automatically mailed to you by doing the
following:

Follow the same procedure as mentioned above. When you reach the page
listing all of the citizens in your Gens, locate your name and click on
the
link. On the new page you'll see a box which contains information about
you.
Click on "Get voter code". On the new page, enter your year of birth and
click 'request voter code'. Your voter code will be emailed to you. Once
you
have your voter code, go to http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'.

Thank you for your interest in this election!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8415 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Scott <optio456@y...>"
<optio456@y...> wrote:
> It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
> natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
> struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
> short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
> could not.

Salve Anthony Scott,

Please accept my sincere and heartfelt condolences on the passing of
your daughter. I'm always saddened to learn of the death of a child,
but I find comfort in knowing that she passed into eternity in the
arms of her father and surrounded by love.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8416 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Fabi Maxime.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/25/03 3:16:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> salixastur@y... writes:
>
>
> > I, for instance, am working in a legislative draft to further
> > advance Nova Roma's judicial system, even if most of you do not
> > know it :-).
> >
>
> Hopefully you will show it to us all, before implementing it.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Rest assured that I will. And I will explicitly ask for your
opinions, comments and suggestions.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8417 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Salve Anthony Scott!

I feel very touched by your message. I just have five minutes at the
computer today, those minutes goes to You and your daughter. I work
with young people and I also come in contact with parents in grief.
My sympathies are with You and I will include You and your family in
my prayers!

>It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
>natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
>struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
>short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
>could not.
>After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
>although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
>about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
>is a universal language.
>Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
>reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
>Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
>fitting.
>Thank you for your attention.
>
>"Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
>"I'll either find a way or invent one!"
>
>Anthony Scott

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8418 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: About recent events concerning "The Eagle"
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tiberi Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Praetor Thank you for your kind words.

You are most welcome.

> However I would like to make one small point. You said in part
> that
> "The key to success is patience. We must accept criticism with an
> open mind, and we must be ready to hear the opinions expressed by
> others.
>
> I agree completely but my ideal was not criticized with the ability
> to come back and debate and win over converts to my view, my idea
> was VETOED, killed at that moment and yes it may come back latter
> but it was killed, VETOED with what I felt was slim justification
> as no feedback had come to me when the information in my idea was a
> month old and known to both Consuls.
>
> Having said this the Junior Consul has send a post that I believe
> helps to clear up some of the misunderstanding and as Roman do we
> move on.

You are certainly right. Your edictum was vetoed. So were some of my
ideas in the past :-).

When I said that "we must accept criticism" I was speaking in a
broader sense. It is just natural that we do not agree with everyone
else all the time; we are Romans, after all :-). But we must not take
these things on a personal level: a veto is just that, a veto. A
temporary drawback. A call to patience. No one has doubted about your
competence, your many qualities or your fitness for your position.

Besides that, I am extremely happy to see that you are satisfied with
the explanations offered by our consules.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8419 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "jlasalle" <jlasalle@s...> wrote:
> I just voted yesterday. Is this a new one?
>

It's the same as yesterday. However if you did vote again, we'll see
that it is a duplicate vote and you'll be ignored.

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8420 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Gens
Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I noticed
there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how did
most people choose their gens?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8421 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
I don't know what most people do, but I can tell you what I did: When
the gens Aurelia was closed to new members, and I was invited to join
the gens Moravia, I was inspired to accept based on the personality
of the Materfamilias. Diana is kind, welcoming, funny, and smart.
That meant more to me as a new NR citizen than any other fact about
the family.

Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
<hedeabianchia@u...> wrote:
> Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I
noticed
> there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how
did
> most people choose their gens?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8422 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Speaking for myself, I chose the Suetonian gens because of my immense admiration for the celebrated historian, whose writings first introduced me to the civilization of classical antiquity. I was lucky in that the The Paterfamilias of that gens was most gracious in welcoming me into the family!

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Gens


Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I noticed
there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how did
most people choose their gens?

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8423 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Ave

That question has a variety of answers. :)

Some people might have persona's they chose to carry over from the SCA or some other re-enactment group.

Some, like myself, wanted to take a name out of honor for someone historical.

Others might have corresponded with members of a gens they were interested in.

Others might have been recommended to gentes.

There are probably a million different answers.

Hope this helps,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Gens


Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I noticed
there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how did
most people choose their gens?

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8425 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: My prayers are with you
My prayers are with you in your deepest hours.

Octavia Fabia Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8426 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Great Web site for non-classical ancient cultures
Salvete Omnes:

If you need an excellent bibliography of books on other peoples who
lived in ancient times, The Web site is at:
http://home1.gte.net/bastetka/nclaseur.htm

I'd been looking for Sarmatian, Scythian and Celtic names that were
commonly used in ancient Roman times, but in other non-classical
areas of the world. This site has a wonderful bibliography. Enjoy.


Valete,
Octavia Fabia Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8427 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
Salve,

See the following Websites:
http://www.ucd.ie/~classics/96/Fisher96.html

Here is an excerpt from the site: You can probably find it by asking
your Middle Eastern or Indian grocery about asafoetida, the closest
thing to it today that's not extinct. There's a debate, though,
whether or not the modern asfoetida had any relationship to the
ancient Roman silphion, and whether silphion had any relationship to
laserpicium. I did the search with www.dogpile.com.

Here's an excerpt from the Web site: Quoted below:

"Pliny the Elder provides a long list of uses for the root of the
plant, laserpicium, or for the distilled juice, laser: they could be
used to add taste to food (its nearest modern equivalent appears to
be the asafoetida still widely used in Middle Eastern and Indian
cookery), or to treat inter alia sore windpipes, corns, wounds,
snake bites, scorpion stings, anal growths, chilblains, pleurisy,
alopecia and toothache (though Pliny doesn't advise this last
application, in a mixture of silphion and wax, since one who tried
it jumped off a cliff)."


"[5] Other medical and culinary sources confirm its varied uses. In
the kitchen, for example, it could be used as a spice to add to a
sauce for roast bird (Ar. Birds 534f., 1580ff.) or lamb (Athen.
147d), or cheese, as a sauce for a ray (Archestratus ap. Athen.
284d), and so on; equally wide culinary uses are found in Pseudo-
Apicius' cook-book.[6] Medically, it appears as an element in a
variety of treatments for pleurisy, pneumonia, dropsy and other
fevers in passages from the Hippocratic writers, and in comedy
usually as part of ointments to treat eye-diseases."


"[7] According to Pliny, the plant was so valued that large amounts
of public expenditure were lavished, in the late Republic, to ensure
its importation: he gives two instances, the importing of 30 pounds
at public expense in the consulships of G. Valerius and M. Herennius
(93 BC), and of 1500 lbs during Caesar's dictatorship, at the start
of the civil war (49 BC).[8] In fact, by Pliny's time the variety
grown in Cyrene, allegedly the most potent, was no longer available;
the rather peculiar reason alleged is that publicani would make
greater profit grazing their herds on the pasturage - perhaps
because as Theophrastus, (hist. plant.6.3.1-6) explains, the crop
was thought to be very beneficial to sheep, improving their health,
fattening them and improving the flavour (producing pré silphié
lamb, like the pré salé lamb fed on salty marshes in Normandy)".


"Moorhouse, however, followed by Commager and Ferguson, claimed the
plant was used to treat hysteric and neurotic conditions, while
Catullus confesses he is mad (l.10, vesanus); on this view the
reference ironically suggests that the poet needed treatment for his
condition, and this constitutes another dark and distancing element
in the poem.[11] It is hard to find, however, in the descriptions of
the plant's uses, any indication that it was thought to help
specifically in the treatment of mental disorders; and to suppose
even an ironic hint that in this poem Catullus recognises the need
for a cure for his 'madness' seems unhelpful. A new approach seems
needed, based more securely on what the drug was actually used for;
but reference either to a cooking-spice or an element in the
treatment of illness does not seem to add much point to the poem."

End quoted excerpt.

To find all the sources, use www.dogpile.com as your search engine
and type in Laserpicium. What comes up is a large number of Web
sites. Asafoetida is related to the extinct silphium. The only
problem is that silphium is rumored to be cannabis. Whether it is or
not, I don't know. In any case, as a fan of the novels of Steven
Saylor, his 1994 novel, Arms of Nemesis mention silphium given to
one of his characters in the novel for a head injury to cause
forgetfulness.

Vale,

Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8428 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
I started my gens, but everyone who has joined so far said they were attracted to the fact that I openly have Jesus Christ as our gens diety.

No to say that was the only reason, but I believe it was a major factor in most choosing Bianchia.

MBA


----- Original Message -----
From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Gens


Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I noticed
there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how did
most people choose their gens?

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8429 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
<hedeabianchia@u...> scripsit:
> Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I
noticed there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was
wondering: how did most people choose their gens?

Good question! I'm the only active member of one of those small
gentes, gens Sempronia. I harangued, nagged and cajoled until I was
admitted, partly because, by two years ago, I had been going
by "Julilla Sempronia" since early 1997 and was quite attached to the
praenomen and nomen. Equally important, however, was the rich history
of the gens. The Semproni were originally an Etruscan tribe who lived
in Rome from the early days of the Republic and, though plebeian,
sent a number of men through the cursus honorem to the curule chair.

In the twilight of the republic, two of gens Sempronia's most famous
sons, Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus and his younger brother, Gaius,
stepped onto the stage of history between 137-121 BCE at a time when
civil unrest presaged the civil war that ultimately brought down the
Republic. Both served under cousin C. Scipio Aemilianus (adopted
grandson of Scipio Africanus), both ascended to public office, both
attacked the status quo and initiated land reforms, and both fell,
murdered by their political opponents for their populist beliefs.

Gens Sempronia Gracchi was ultimately raised to patrician status by
Imperator Augustus, and the last mention I have found of a Sempronii
is from Nero's time.

What an ancient and illustrious history! And this is but one of
Roma's illustrious gentes! I could not let the name die out!

D M SEMPRONIO SEMPRONIANO CENTVRIONI LEG VIXIT ANNOS LI ET FRATRIBVS
SEMPRONIIS ET SECVNDO LEIBERTI EIVS PATRONIS BENE MERENTIBVS POSVERVNT

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8430 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve Dryantilla, et Omnes,

As the Senator Lucius Sulla stated, "That question has a variety of answers. :)" With which I entirely agree.

He also pointed out: "Some, like myself, wanted to take a name out of honor for someone historical."

This would be closest to my response. I named myself for the Dictator Aulus Postumius Tubertus (5th cent. ante Christum). I would guess to say that Senator Sulla has an admiration of Dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (first cent. ante Christum), or that Senator Fabius Maximus has a liking for (too) Dictator Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus (3rd cent a.c.), and so on. I think we all have our likings for the Ancient Romans. I would say that could have been one of the quickest drivers for those who named themselves after Ancients.

Anyway, not that you cared to know, that's just my response to things.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius L.f. A.n. Tubertus

Retiarius, Scriba, Citizen, Accensus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8431 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Which happens to be my reason for choosing this gens. :)

--On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:11 PM -0800 Centurion M Bianchius
Antonius <imperialreign@...> wrote:

>
> I started my gens, but everyone who has joined so far said they were
> attracted to the fact that I openly have Jesus Christ as our gens diety.
>
> No to say that was the only reason, but I believe it was a major factor
> in most choosing Bianchia.
>
> MBA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8432 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
--- Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@...> wrote:
> I started my gens, but everyone who has joined so far said they
> were attracted to the fact that I openly have Jesus Christ as our
> gens diety.
>
> No to say that was the only reason, but I believe it was a major
> factor in most choosing Bianchia.

On the other side of the fence, one of the reasons I chose Caprenia
was that Vesta Herself was listed as a patron for the gens.

Vestinia Caprenia

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8433 From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
On the contrary - that was exactly what I was looking for: personal reasons
for choosing one's name. In a society modeled after the ancients, I think
it appropriate (and neat - I'm a first-year history major, after all) for
people to take on the name of someone they admired historically. Plus, some
of the answers have been a wonderfull refresher of not-so-recently studied
ancient history (the Gracchi brothers) :)

Dryantilla

> Anyway, not that you cared to know, that's just my response to things.
>
> Valete,
>
> Sp. Postumius L.f. A.n. Tubertus
>
> Retiarius, Scriba, Citizen, Accensus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8434 From: nathan guiboche Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Return
Salve LMP

You and I have much the same stories, and I am very happy with your desire
to return to NR. I have the very same reasons you have for returning to our
republic. Once a Nova Roman, always a Nova Roman!!

QS


>From: "Lucius Mauricius Procopious <lespeterson@...>"
><lespeterson@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Return
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:24:17 -0000
>
>Salvete Omnes!
>I have my affairs in order to the point that I am now prepared to re-
>appear here in Nova Roma. I hope that you will allow me to apologize
>for my lack of participation the last few months of my terms as
>Propraetor and Tribune. I kept my eye on the Tribunes list and the
>Provincial list in case of emergency but did not participate. Please
>accept my assurance that my personal life was in disorder to the
>point that I was no longer a functional asset for Nova Roma. I have
>been able to restore enough order to my life that I have the
>resources to continue my participation in our great nation. I have
>been honored by my propraetrix beyond what I deserve in her offer of
>a legate-ship. I accept and hope this is an oportunity for me to make
>amends for "dropping the ball" at the end of my service. Thank you
>for this chance to serve.
>
>I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) do hereby solemnly
>swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
>interests of Julilla Sempronia Magna while I hold this office, except
>when such action would be illegal or unconstitutional.
>
>I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) further swear to
>fulfill the obligations and Rresponsibilities of the office of
>Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior:Regio I - Vasintonia
>Boreoccidentalis to the best of my abilities while following the
>Roman virtues and ideals.
>
>I, Lucius Mauricius Procopious (M.L.Peterson) swear to give faithful
>service to my magistrate, and not to divulge any information
>discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the
>discretion of my magistrate. On my honor as a Citizen of Nova
>Roma,and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
>people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of
>Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior: Regio I - Vasintonia
>Boreoccidentalis with all the privileges, obligations, and
>responsibilities attendant thereto.
>
>
>Given under my hand A.D. X Kal. Martias MMDCCLVI
>AUC in the
>Consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus
>Labienus Fortunatus.
>
>
>Lucius Mauricius Procopious
>Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis Maior
>Regio I - Vasintonia Boreoccidentalis
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8435 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Please accept my most heartfelt condolences on you loss.
You will be in my prayers.

---
Livia Cornelia Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Scott <optio456@y...>"
<optio456@y...> wrote:
> It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
> natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
> struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
> short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
> could not.
>[SNIPPED]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8436 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve,

I chose Gens Cornelia mainly because of two historical figures,
Scipio Africanus and Tacitus. Sulla was also an exceptional Cornelian
from history too. The historical aspect was probably the most
important point for me, not the number of members nor the fact that
it is a Patrician Gens (although those were pluses).

Vale

- Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
<hedeabianchia@u...> wrote:
> Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I
noticed
> there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering: how
did
> most people choose their gens?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8437 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-02-26
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve, Julilla Sempronia Magna -

On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 12:27:22AM -0000, Julilla Sempronia Magna <curatrix@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
> <hedeabianchia@u...> scripsit:
> > Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I
> noticed there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was
> wondering: how did most people choose their gens?
>
> Good question! I'm the only active member of one of those small
> gentes, gens Sempronia. I harangued, nagged and cajoled until I was
> admitted, partly because, by two years ago, I had been going
> by "Julilla Sempronia" since early 1997 and was quite attached to the
> praenomen and nomen. Equally important, however, was the rich history
> of the gens. The Semproni were originally an Etruscan tribe who lived
> in Rome from the early days of the Republic and, though plebeian,
> sent a number of men through the cursus honorem to the curule chair.
>
> In the twilight of the republic, two of gens Sempronia's most famous
> sons, Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus and his younger brother, Gaius,
> stepped onto the stage of history between 137-121 BCE at a time when
> civil unrest presaged the civil war that ultimately brought down the
> Republic. Both served under cousin C. Scipio Aemilianus (adopted
> grandson of Scipio Africanus), both ascended to public office, both
> attacked the status quo and initiated land reforms, and both fell,
> murdered by their political opponents for their populist beliefs.
>
> Gens Sempronia Gracchi was ultimately raised to patrician status by
> Imperator Augustus, and the last mention I have found of a Sempronii
> is from Nero's time.
>
> What an ancient and illustrious history! And this is but one of
> Roma's illustrious gentes! I could not let the name die out!

And, lest we forget, Cornelia Mother of the Gracchi was revered by the
women of AR as the highest example of dignity in times of suffering - as
if the gens needed to shine any brighter. :) A heritage to be most proud
of, indeed.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nil desperandum!
Never despair!
-- Horace, "Carmina"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8438 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: A time of Grief
Dear Mr Scott:
Only by being a father, as I am too, can someone imagine the pain
you´ve got in your heart.
I am with you. Think abot death as a liberation, like in the last few
minutes in Gladiator movie.

Yours in pain

antonius adrianus urcitanus
----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Anthony Scott <optio456@...>" <optio456@...>
Fecha: Miercoles, Febrero 26, 2003 8:50 pm
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] A time of Grief

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> It is my sad duty to report the passing of my adored daughter, of
>
> natural causes, sometime monday night in my arms after a valiant
>
> struggle. She was all of 4 years old but in the brief and all too
>
> short time that I had her I tried to give her the life her parents
>
> could not.
>
> After an appropriate time she will be cremated along Roman traditions,
>
> although I imagine her already with my grandparents, chattering away
>
> about her recent crossing of a river...I suppose that in Elysium there
>
> is a universal language.
>
> Anyway, if I seem not to post as regularly as I normally do, the
>
> reason is understood...I am off to my homeland(France) with a stop in
>
> Mexico to spend time with the biological grandmother as is proper and
>
> fitting.
>
> Thank you for your attention.
>
>
>
> "Aut inveniam viam aut faciam"
>
> "I'll either find a way or invent one!"
>
>
>
> Anthony Scott
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8439 From: URCITANUS Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve,
Speaking for myself, I chose a gens honouring to a Roman character who
came from my area. Living in the south of Spain, I couldn´t enter other
gens that ADRIANA gens, honouring the best emperor ever: My fellow
countryman P. AELIUS ADRIANUS

VALE

antonius adrianus urcitanus

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: John Walzer <jwalzer5@...>
Fecha: Jueves, Febrero 27, 2003 0:05 am
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Gens

> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Speaking for myself, I chose the Suetonian gens because of my
> immense admiration for the celebrated historian, whose writings
> first introduced me to the civilization of classical antiquity. I
> was lucky in that the The Paterfamilias of that gens was most
> gracious in welcoming me into the family!
>
>
>
> L. Suetonius Nerva
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:45 PM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Gens
>
>
>
>
>
> Just out of curiosity: I was browsing the Album Gentium, and I
> noticed
>
> there are gens that have from 1 to 99 members. I was wondering:
> how did
>
> most people choose their gens?
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8440 From: sceptia Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Elections For Tribuns Plebis
Salvete omnes

Citizens, this is the third time we must cast our votes. So I
strongly recommend a high participation on this election.

Being a Tribunus Plebis is not a comfortable office, but we who
run for the representation of the plebeian cives will do our best.

So if you please I call all the voters to show their wills -and wits.
:-)

I hope Quorum will be reached this time.

Vale bene,

L. Didivs Geminvs Sceptivs
- Candidate to Tribunus Plebis-
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8441 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve Arnamentia,
Salvete everyone!

< and I was invited to join the gens Moravia, I was inspired to accept based
on the personality
<of the Materfamilias. Diana is kind, welcoming, funny, and smart.
<That meant more to me as a new NR citizen than any other fact about
<the family.
Ahh Arnamentia angel, I describe you in precisely the same way! You forgot
to mention that I'm also extremely egotistical and extremely insecure which
gives the false impression that I am balanced Ha Ha!!

We've been through this 'why I picked my name?' conversations a few times
and I always enjoy them! I was Diana Aventina in the Pagan Federation since
1997 (in honor of the Goddess Diana of Aventina hill in Rome. I found Nova
Roma around May 1999 and the first person who befriended me was a fellow
Pagan named Nicholas Moravius. Soon after he adopted me as his sister. I'm
the only Moravii left from the 'old' days but I do know that 'Moravia' is
not an historical Gens. Maybe my gensmate Laureatus knows? Honestly, if I
could do it again, I would choose an historical person's name :-p

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8442 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: It's time to vote!
Salve Agricola,

As our Rogator Q Cassius Calvus has already mentioned, it is the same
voting for the 2 open offices of Tribune, which will continue though March
6.
During the last run-off, we had such a poor voter turn out that none of the
candidates won the 18 tribe majority needed to win the election. Going
through so many run-off's is a real endurance test for the candidates and a
lot of work for our Rogatores (judges of the election) and Curator Araneae
(our webmaster).

So during this run-off, expect a lot of emails from me nagging citizens to
vote!

And while I am at it, if anyone reading this is a Plebeian citizen, don't
forget to vote!! If you don't know how, see below! (My apologies to those in
digest mode !)

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
********************

Salvete Plebeian citizens!

The third run-off election for the 2 vacant offices of Tribunus Plebis is
now under way! If you are a Plebeian citizen, please go to
http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'. Voting will continue until
Thursday March 6, 18:01 Roman Time, but why wait? Vote now!

Only Plebeian citizens may vote in this election. Not sure if you are a
Plebeian? No problem. Just go to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes
Find the name of your gens (they are listed alphabetically). Two columns to
the right of your Gens name, click on the 'number of cives'. A new page
opens that contains a listing of all the citizens in your Gens. The word
'Patrician' or 'Plebeian' will be written on the left beneath the name of
your Gens. If it says 'Plebeian' then you need to vote!

If you don't remember your voter code or are a new citizen, again, no
problem. You can have it automatically mailed to you by doing the following:

Follow the same procedure as mentioned above. When you reach the page
listing all of the citizens in your Gens, locate your name and click on the
link. On the new page you'll see a box which contains information about you.
Click on "Get voter code". On the new page, enter your year of birth and
click 'request voter code'. Your voter code will be emailed to you. Once you
have your voter code, go to http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'.

Thank you for your interest in this election!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8443 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: EQUIRRIA
27 Feburary III Kal Mart NP

EQUIRRIA

This was a festival of horse-racing, traditionally instituted by Romulus and held in honour of Mars in the Campus Martius, or if this was flooded, on open ground on the Caelian hill. It is uncertain whether chariots were involved. The site in the Campus Martius may be the Trigarium on its west side. Another day of racing was celebrated on 14 March, but we do not know why these two Equirria fell so close together. At any rate Mars was honoured twice, once before his own month began, and the spring was the time to prepare for the campaigning season and to exercise the horses after the winter.

Today is a "dies nefastus publicus" (NP), a day of special religious observance when legal business cannot take place.

Mars nos protegis.

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Flamen Martialis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8444 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: FYI ] Public lecture - New York City - March 13
Salve Romans FYI



>Subject: [ANE] directions Re: [ANE] public lecture - New York City - March 13
>Reply-To: ane@...
>
>St. John's College Spring 2003 Personal and Professional Development
>Series, History Department, and Graduate Division present a lecture
>
>The Secret of the Syllables:
>Solving the Mystery of the Origins of Writing
>
>by Peter T. Daniels
>
>6-7:30 p.m.
>Thursday, March 13, 2003
>
>St. John Hall, Room 208
>St. John's University
>8000 Utopia Parkway
>Queens, New York
>
>For Interdisciplinary Post-Guest Lecture Reception 7-9 pm (Marillac
>Terrace), RSVP by March 6 Gregory M. Kelly 718-990-2738 or
>sjcalumni@...
>
>directions available at <http://www.stjohns.edu>
>
>Specifically (the website is very slow) (paste long URL)
>
><http://www.stjohns.edu/pls/portal30/sjudev.school.home?p_siteid=40&p_navbar=292&p_id=55604#queensdirec>
>--
>Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8445 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Endorsement
AVETE OMNES

The Plebeian citizens are actually requested to express their will
through the Comitia Plebis Tributa to elect two more Tribuni Plebis.
I want to express my support for Laenas, a citizen
which really did an amazing job last year as a Consular Quaestor,
when for the first time Nova Roma had to collect taxes.
I simply suggest you to think about the dedication he already showed.

But you all know that we must fill _two_ positions of Tribune. I also
suggest you to strongly consider Sceptius, whose work I can fully
appreaciate in this moment I am working with him in the Cohors
Aedilis of Franciscus Apulus Caesar, and I'm sure you will appreciate
it too very soon! ;-)

These two guys deserve our attention! Both of them are still willing
to dedicate themselves to Nova Roma. Why shouldn't we give them this
opportunity? ;-)

BENE VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Accensvs Senior Primvs Consvlis Senioris
Legatvs Externis Rebvs Provinciae Italiae
----------------------------
PROVINCIA ITALIA
http://italia.novaroma.org
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8446 From: Anthony Scott Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Thanks to all
It is with great affection that I thank those who have written in
support in the last few days.My adored dughter will be cremated
tonight as per Religio Romana tradition and law, then I am taking some
of my leave time and going home, both hers and mine.
One of you wrote mentioning that wonderful end scene in Gladiator,
where
Maximus finally dies...in Samurai tradition, death is viewed with gret
joy, although the father in me cannot see it right now. I have leaned
very much on family and friends and they have been wonderful....As
you, my adopted Roman family have been.
So, I wil be postins something that I have written regarding what I
think my little one saw ans experienced when she arrived at Elysium...

Thank you all again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8447 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Endorsement
Salvete Omnes,

> The Plebeian citizens are actually requested to express their will
> through the Comitia Plebis Tributa to elect two more Tribuni Plebis.
> I want to express my support for Laenas, a citizen
> which really did an amazing job last year as a Consular Quaestor,
> when for the first time Nova Roma had to collect taxes.
> I simply suggest you to think about the dedication he already showed.

I join Honorable Serapio in his endorsement for Honorable Laenas. I have seen the
wonderful work he did. I am sure he will show the same dedication and hard work for the
position of Tribune Plebis.

Valete,

=====
Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Consular Quaestor 2756 AUC
Propraetor Galliae
Sodalitas Egressus, Praefectus for France -- French Translator
Scriba Explorator Primus et Scriba Fiscalis Primus Academiae Thules
NRLandProject, acting Praefectus Pecuniae

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8448 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Gens
My purpose in starting the Gens Minucia was to honor a man who was not
famous, but rather like myself who served honorably in the military, and
who became in the fullness of time an acknowledged technician in the
service of his Legion (XXth) and his country. We don't know very much
about this man, except that he was legionary in the XXth Legio, and he
was "Miles Immunes" in that legion which indicates a successful career
as both a soldier and a specialist (Gromaciti / Gubanator--Military
Surveyor / Pilot). He is commemorated by a very distinctive funeral
altar, which indicates that there were those who survived him who
thought enough of his contributions to the Roman World to raise a
significant ediface to his memory. He was a Plebian and the Gens has
been since raised to Patrian Rank for suitable service to Nova Roma.

The Gens is a small one, and genrally speaking the members are of an
independent nature, and we are more like "brothers and sisters", rather
than "paterfamilias and children."

While I am Christain in my personal beliefs, this Nova Roma is a place
dedicated to the Roman Religio and in keeping with that aspect the
Minucia Gens Gods are Roman and reflect those Gods which most likely
were the ones closest to the Gens namesake and hs religious beliefs.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8449 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: CHARIOT RACES in Factio Praesina - RESULTS!!!
AVETE OMNES

It's time for the whole Nova Roma to know the facts of
the glorious Green Team! The Factio Praesina!
During past days Factio Praesina had some great time
with our internal chariot races. Here below you can
find the results of the races and their commentaries.
You will also discover who our new Green Champion is!

If you want to become a member of the Green Team
running with our colour you simply need to join Factio
Praesina by subscribing our mailing list at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina

And now, let's go to the circus! ;-)

--------------------------------

AVETE OMNES

Here they are! The Ludi of Factio Praesina, the Green
team, finally started!!!!

Here are the two semifinals. Tomorrow it will take
place the Final race!!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------
FIRST SEMIFINAL

1-INEXPUGNABILIS II
driver: Euthymius
Sponsor Caius Curius Saturninus

2. LEO
driver: Sextus
Sponsor Numerius Cassius Niger

3. BASILEA
driver: Septimius Raurax
Sponsor Tiberius Annaeus Otho

4. DELECTA MEA
driver: Scorpianus
Sponsor Julilla Sempronia Magna

A totally Praesina Race! This should happen during
normal Ludi too!
No violence, no accidents, just training and enjoying
the race. However you could sense tension in the
atmoshpere. Each driver wanted to show himself.
Immediately the struggle was between Delecta Mea and
Leo, but during the last lap a member of the Russata
managed to come into the circus and set a chicken free
among the chariots. Scorpianus, the driver of Delecta
Mea, nearly felt off the chariot while reining in. And
in that very moment the great Inexpugnabilis II took
advantage of the situation hurrying and passing
Julilla's chariot. Inexpugnabilis II approached Leo
but before our soldiers could pinion the red
scoundrel, this stupid guy of factio Russata managed
to throw a big piece of Parmigiano cheese against
Euthymius, the driver of Inexpugnabilis II. Euthymius
managed to stay on his chariot but it was too late, as
Basilea took advantage of Inexpugnabilis' trouble
overtooking him and crossing the finishing line just
after Leo.
Leo and Basilea qualify for the Final!
Unfortunately that red guy managed to free himself and
run away. Somebody says he has been seen after a few
minutes with a person which looked like a certain red
Aedile... uhmmmm, that's not nice at all! ;)
Scorpianus, after noticing he had been overtaken,
decided to catch the chicken. Then reached the
finishing line taking his time, and gave the fowl to
his Domina, Julilla Sempronia Magna. Ok, at least we
are going to have a good banquet after the races!!! ;)

Winner: LEO
2nd: BASILEA
3rd: INEXPUGNABILIS II
4th: DELECTA MEA

Classified for the final: Leo and Basilea

=====================================================


SECOND SEMIFINAL

1. THE GREEN HORNET
driver: Marcus Fulgor Gladius
Sponsor Marcus Minucius Audens

2. VOLATILIS
driver: Pelops Celer
Sponsor Titus Labienus Fortunatus

3. THE THUNDERBURST
driver: Appius Claudius Falco
Sponsor Sextus Cornelius Cotta

4. ESSEDUM
driver: Italicus
Sponsor Manius Constantinus Serapio

Ouch! What a difficult situation! Before the race the
drivers of Essedum and The Thunderburst were
discussing: "I want to win... but that's the chariot
of a Senator!" "I would like to win too.... but that's
the chariot of a CONSUL!!!" But wise Audens found
them: "That's a game. Enjoy!" (well, he said much more
obviously, but that's just for the sake of brevity
--grinnnnn!) (sorry, my friend, just kidding!)
Volatilis immediately took the lead, with Essedum and
The Green Hornet behind him, and The Thunderburst at
the end. After several laps, however, you could see
how Peopls Celer, the driver of Volatilis, was
fatigued. It was in that moment that Essedum hurried
up ad passed him. But The Green Hornet is not an
incompetent. Marcus Fulgor Gladius spured his horses.
In a few seconds they reached and overtook Essedum
which simply looked at the dust cloud, forced to curb
not to crash against the wall of the circus. The
Thunderburst passed in that very moment. In the
meantime The Green Hornet found Volatilis which had to
be doubled! This situation slowed down its sprint. The
Thunderburst passed it and won the race! The Green
Hornet immediately followed it. then Essedum and
(after three minutes), Volatilis, whose horses were
simply walking and overworked (!).
The Thunderburst and The Green Hornet qualify for the
Final!
The Dominus Factionis decided to spend some money of
the Green Team to buy four new horses for Volatilis,
so that during the real races during the Ludi will
really create a lot of troubles to our opponents! ;)

Winner: THE THUNDERBURST 3
2nd: THE GREEN HORNET 1
3rd: ESSEDUM 1
4th: VOLATILIS 2

Classified for the final: The Thunderburst and The
Green Hornet

Let's see tomorrow who will be the Green Champion
among these four great chariots!!!
-Leo
-The Thunderburst
-Basilea
-The Green Hornet

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Dominvs Factionis Praesinae

==========================================

THE FINAL

1. LEO
driver: Sextus
Sponsor Numerius Cassius Niger

2. THE THUNDERBURST
driver: Appius Claudius Falco
Sponsor Sextus Cornelius Cotta

3. BASILEA
driver: Septimius Raurax
Sponsor Tiberius Annaeus Otho

4. THE GREEN HORNET
driver: Marcus Fulgor Gladius
Sponsor Marcus Minucius Audens

The four chariots are ready. The Dominus Factionis
keep the scarf in his hand waiting for the right
moment... NOW! The scarf falls on the sand and sixteen
horses start running furiously! The other members of
the Green Team wave their flags and ruge of passion!
It is Basilea which takes the lead in the first
straight line. Just behind you can see The Green
Hornet, led by Marcus Fulgor Gladius. Also, Leo and
The Thunderburst are fighting cutting ahead of each
other, but in this way they are allowing Basilea and
The Green Hornet to gain ground.
During the second straight line of the fifth lap
Basilea's horses are really galloping at full speed
and Septimius Raurax, its driver, must strongly stop
and turn not to crash against the wall of the curve.
Marcus Fulgor Gladius notes his opponent's trouble and
decides to take advantage of the situation with an
amazing sprint! The Green Hornet overtakes Basilea and
takes the lead of the race at the sixth lap! We are at
the end! Septimius Raurax immediately spurs his horses
and manages to approach The Green Hornet. Marcus
Fulgor Gladius looks back Basilea, AND THAT'S THE
MISTAKE! Just for a while he looses control of the
horses, and that's sufficient for Basilea to pass The
Green Hornet again! Basilea is now unstoppable. The
Green Hornet is again behind him but that's totally
unuseful. Basilea crosses the finishing line first for
delirium of his fans in the Green circus! Then The
Green Honet and, after a few seconds, Leo and The
Thunderburst.
Basilea wins!
BASILEA, OF TIBERIUS ANNAEUS OTHO, IS THE GREEN
CHAMPION CHARIOT!!!!
All the members of the Factio Praesina congratulate
Septimius Raurax and Tiberius Annaeus Otho (which
shall offer a cup of falernum to each member of the
Green team! grinnnn!). Now he is the champion of our
Factio! He jumps on his chariot with the driver
Septimius Raurax for a lap of honour in the circus.

Winner: BASILEA
2nd: THE GREEN HORNET
3rd: LEO
4th: THE THUNDERBURST

And now, let's have our banquet with Julilla's
chicken, Saturninus' Parmigiano cheese and Tiberius'
drinks! ;-)

See you in next Ludi! Next time it will be a difficult
task: we won't meet our Green friends, but guys from
the other teams, AND WE MUST WIN!!!!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Dominvs Factionis Praesinae

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8450 From: Les Peterson Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
My two sestertius here, I wanted to be a "Marius" but
the Gens was closed at the time or I think the
Paterfamilias was on an understandable hiatus I don't
remember which. So I formed my own gens out of a
derivation of my first name that was near "Marius".
Most interestingly to me is my choice of Procopious. I
"Greeked" the spelling to distinguish myself from my
namesake. The longer I study him. The more I find we
have in common. Our Gens is open to anyone anywhere,
but ideally I'd like it to be a real family
geographically near.
Lucius Mauricius Procopious


--- jmath669642reng@... wrote:
> My purpose in starting the Gens Minucia was to honor
> a man who was not
> famous, but rather like myself who served honorably
> in the military, and
> who became in the fullness of time an acknowledged
> technician in the
> service of his Legion (XXth) and his country. We
> don't know very much
>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8451 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Negative List
Master Agricola;

I accept your apology, and acknowledge that such a mistake can easily
happen to anyone. I do not believe necessarily that have made a
mistake in my assistance to you, but I was not aware of the extent of
your service to NR until your message outlined such.

I will make a fuller reply to the other elements of your message in a
personal E-Mail.

My thanks and appreciation for your prompt reply.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8452 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Salvete Diana et omnes,

The gens Moravia is not an historical one as you pointed out and is derived
from the official english name of its founding father...
Now for my two sestercii : I chose the gens Moravia because it was based in
England where I live and because I also received quickly a warm welcome.
After many tribulations I am very happy today that Diana accepted to be our
materfamilias. And you know mater, although our name lacks historical
flavour we can be grateful to be at the start of a new story; let's make the
best of it by adopting your fluffy bunny philosophy as our family official
religion ;-)
valete in pace dianae et deorum omnium

Moravius Laureatus

We've been through this 'why I picked my name?' conversations a few times
and I always enjoy them! I was Diana Aventina in the Pagan Federation since
1997 (in honor of the Goddess Diana of Aventina hill in Rome. I found Nova
Roma around May 1999 and the first person who befriended me was a fellow
Pagan named Nicholas Moravius. Soon after he adopted me as his sister. I'm
the only Moravii left from the 'old' days but I do know that 'Moravia' is
not an historical Gens. Maybe my gensmate Laureatus knows? Honestly, if I
could do it again, I would choose an historical person's name :-p

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8453 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Gens
Ave

I made up my gens name "Basilicata" and it was graciously accepted by the
Censors. I am an Italian American and our "hometown" in Italy is a little
town called "Vaglio Basilicata" which is in the province, Basilicata, right
above Calabria. These sites have some pictures of it.

http://www.comunesofitaly.org/images/vaglio1.jpg

http://www.basilicatapress.com/host/laregionecommunication/canali/comune/com
une.htm

Its a great town. I showed up there about ten years ago, and when I tried to
explain who I was, they weren't real sure what to make of me. But once it
was understood, the whole town practically had a parade for me. The last
LaSalas to emigrate from there was about 1900-1915. Two Sevinos (or
Mazzachios?) were adopted by my great Uncle Louie in the 1950's, Rocco and
Maria. I remember my dad showing me pictures of when Rocco and Marie arrived
in America, and my relatives in Italy showed me pictures of them leaving.
TMI, but I thought it was cool. My trip was a sort of ambassadorship which
opened the way for Rocco and Marie to return and see their real father
before he died. Supposedly the Appian Way came through there on the way to
the port of Bari. maybe. I had the best time of my life there. I miss it. It
is my connection, as close as I can be, to ancient Rome. I believe
basilicata means beautiful basil. At the time, no tourists went there unless
they were on their way to somewhere else, but let me tell you something,
there were Greek and Roman ruins EVERYWHERE! We're talking colonial Greek
age towns. I went to one old roman temple and it was just in a field with a
bunch of locals around it collecting snails for cooking . No gates, no
admission fee, no signs saying "chiuso" on a Wednesday at 10 am. It was
Heaven.

So thats my name.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola.
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla [mailto:hedeabianchia@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Gens


On the contrary - that was exactly what I was looking for: personal
reasons
for choosing one's name. In a society modeled after the ancients, I think
it appropriate (and neat - I'm a first-year history major, after all) for
people to take on the name of someone they admired historically. Plus,
some
of the answers have been a wonderfull refresher of not-so-recently studied
ancient history (the Gracchi brothers) :)

Dryantilla

> Anyway, not that you cared to know, that's just my response to things.
>
> Valete,
>
> Sp. Postumius L.f. A.n. Tubertus
>
> Retiarius, Scriba, Citizen, Accensus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8454 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-02-27
Subject: Re: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
"Arms of Nemesis mention silphium given to one of his characters in the
novel for a head injury to cause forgetfulness."

Sounds like weed to me.

Thank you for the link!


Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

"It is indeed a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs
to our ancestors."
-Plutarch (46-120AD)

-----Original Message-----
From: biojournalism <biojournalism@...>
[mailto:biojournalism@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:00 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern
asafoetida?


Salve,

See the following Websites:
http://www.ucd.ie/~classics/96/Fisher96.html

Here is an excerpt from the site: You can probably find it by asking
your Middle Eastern or Indian grocery about asafoetida, the closest
thing to it today that's not extinct. There's a debate, though,
whether or not the modern asfoetida had any relationship to the
ancient Roman silphion, and whether silphion had any relationship to
laserpicium. I did the search with www.dogpile.com.

Here's an excerpt from the Web site: Quoted below:

"Pliny the Elder provides a long list of uses for the root of the
plant, laserpicium, or for the distilled juice, laser: they could be
used to add taste to food (its nearest modern equivalent appears to
be the asafoetida still widely used in Middle Eastern and Indian
cookery), or to treat inter alia sore windpipes, corns, wounds,
snake bites, scorpion stings, anal growths, chilblains, pleurisy,
alopecia and toothache (though Pliny doesn't advise this last
application, in a mixture of silphion and wax, since one who tried
it jumped off a cliff)."


"[5] Other medical and culinary sources confirm its varied uses. In
the kitchen, for example, it could be used as a spice to add to a
sauce for roast bird (Ar. Birds 534f., 1580ff.) or lamb (Athen.
147d), or cheese, as a sauce for a ray (Archestratus ap. Athen.
284d), and so on; equally wide culinary uses are found in Pseudo-
Apicius' cook-book.[6] Medically, it appears as an element in a
variety of treatments for pleurisy, pneumonia, dropsy and other
fevers in passages from the Hippocratic writers, and in comedy
usually as part of ointments to treat eye-diseases."


"[7] According to Pliny, the plant was so valued that large amounts
of public expenditure were lavished, in the late Republic, to ensure
its importation: he gives two instances, the importing of 30 pounds
at public expense in the consulships of G. Valerius and M. Herennius
(93 BC), and of 1500 lbs during Caesar's dictatorship, at the start
of the civil war (49 BC).[8] In fact, by Pliny's time the variety
grown in Cyrene, allegedly the most potent, was no longer available;
the rather peculiar reason alleged is that publicani would make
greater profit grazing their herds on the pasturage - perhaps
because as Theophrastus, (hist. plant.6.3.1-6) explains, the crop
was thought to be very beneficial to sheep, improving their health,
fattening them and improving the flavour (producing pré silphié
lamb, like the pré salé lamb fed on salty marshes in Normandy)".


"Moorhouse, however, followed by Commager and Ferguson, claimed the
plant was used to treat hysteric and neurotic conditions, while
Catullus confesses he is mad (l.10, vesanus); on this view the
reference ironically suggests that the poet needed treatment for his
condition, and this constitutes another dark and distancing element
in the poem.[11] It is hard to find, however, in the descriptions of
the plant's uses, any indication that it was thought to help
specifically in the treatment of mental disorders; and to suppose
even an ironic hint that in this poem Catullus recognises the need
for a cure for his 'madness' seems unhelpful. A new approach seems
needed, based more securely on what the drug was actually used for;
but reference either to a cooking-spice or an element in the
treatment of illness does not seem to add much point to the poem."

End quoted excerpt.

To find all the sources, use www.dogpile.com as your search engine
and type in Laserpicium. What comes up is a large number of Web
sites. Asafoetida is related to the extinct silphium. The only
problem is that silphium is rumored to be cannabis. Whether it is or
not, I don't know. In any case, as a fan of the novels of Steven
Saylor, his 1994 novel, Arms of Nemesis mention silphium given to
one of his characters in the novel for a head injury to cause
forgetfulness.

Vale,

Octavia





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8455 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Happy 5th Birthday to all Nova Romans
Salve Romans and Happy Birthday

to all Nova Romans on this the 5th Anniversary of the founding of the Nova Roma.
Congratulations to our Founding Fathers and Mothers
Good health and wise rule to our Honored Consuls and our other fine magistrates as we build in the next five years let us remember the words of Marcus Terentius Varro
"Divina natura dedit agros, ars humana aedifcavit urbes
Godlike nature gave us the fields, human skill built the cities
Let us continue to build Nova Roma and our new city
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8456 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Gens
Salve dear Laureatus,

< And you know mater, although our name lacks historical
<flavour we can be grateful to be at the start of a new story; let's make
the
<best of it by adopting your fluffy bunny philosophy as our family official
<religion ;-)

Sounds good to me ! I'll change the entry on the Albium Gentium right now
:-)

Anyway, when I said that if I could do it again I would have chosen an
historical person's name I was thinking from a Religio point of view. In the
Religio, honoring one's ancestors is important. Buuuuut, my recent ancestors
have left a rather bad taste in my mouth and so it would be nice for me to
have 'adopted' ancestors that I could honor.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8457 From: scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: You have a posty!
Confidential! For Nova Roma only!

All the citizens of Gallia has created a special posty, just for you, Nova Roma
and has sent it to you on Fri Feb 28 06:54:14 2003.

The posty will be stored for you for 3 weeks.
Be sure to pick it during these 3 weeks before it expires.


You may pick it up from

Bibliotheca Apollonia
http://www.fr-novaroma.com/E_cards/index.html

Your ticket number is: 022806541411543


Alternatively you can pick it up by clicking on the link below:

http://bas.mypostcards.com/?Apollonia+022806541411543

***********
If you are using AOL mail: <a href="http://bas.mypostcards.com/?Apollonia+022806541411543">just click here</a>.
***********

Provincia Gallia, Bibliotheca Apollonia, Nova Roma

-----

Click here for a chance to win a 42" Plasma Television!
http://mocda3.com/1/c/64920/87025/246984/246984
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8458 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re-Focusing a bit...
This below post is a re-send for more comments. If I do not gain any
more within 1 week, I shall send this Lex on to the Senate for
Approval.

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

========================================================


Last year in November, the idea was tossed around about
creating "Colonies". Well, here is an INITIAL outline for discussion.
Comments on here are requested and desired, but please respond
DIRECTLY to me (Publius Tarquitius Rufus) at wlr107@... for
specific additions/suggestion(s) for the Lex.

It is my desire to have this added to our body of Laws later this
year, and this is the initial steps toward that goal.

Lex Tarquitius Colonie

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a colony.

2. Applications for all Colonies must be submitted to the Consuls and
the Senate AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
1a. ALL applications are required to be voted
approved/disapproved within 60 days of presentation of the
Senate.
1b. All Colonies awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
Colonies" until Gubernitorial, Consular and Senate Approval is
Granted to the colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the COlony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligable for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of application of
the Colony to the Providence's Governor.

7. Recommended Approval Process: Governor of Providence (if no reply,
send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required)

8. After initial opening of Colony, if a person has paid their dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Colony Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor and
COnsuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Colony:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are
some recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8459 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
testing



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8460 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
testing

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8461 From: Gaius Galerius Peregrinator Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: testing
testing




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8462 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Laserpicium--Could it be related to modern asafoetida?
-----Original Message-----
From : jlasalle <jlasalle@...>
>
>Sounds like weed to me.
>
There is a leaf called Khat chewed in the Sudan and Somalia introduced to Britain too recently to be covered by the drug laws. Besides, nobody is entirely sure whether to class it as a drug or not. It is a weaker relative to cocaine and probably accounts for the cocaine-like traces found in an Egyptian mummy's hair a couple of years ago. Users say that it mellows them down but improves their thinking {well of course so do a couple of stiff gins :)}. Might have been that though. It's a fair certainty that anything with druggy overtones, the Ptolemies and half of the Caesars were using and when they weren't, most of the Mystery cults. Though Cannabis is a Greek word, meaning that they knew it and under that name so wouldn't be callong it something else.

Caesariensis.


--
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 8463 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-02-28
Subject: Re: Gens
-----Original Message-----
From : Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...>
>
>Religio, honoring one's ancestors is important. Buuuuut, my recent ancestors
>have left a rather bad taste in my mouth and so it would be nice for me to
>have 'adopted' ancestors that I could honor.
>
It is said that an old French aristocrat ran into coutiers ennobled by one or other of the Napoleons. Looking them over, he sneered "My ancestors go back the ancient Franks. What about your ancestors". With equal arrogance, one of the Novi Homines looked him up and down and replied "*We* are the ancestors".

Caesariensis.

"Make Love not Profit"



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