Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Apl 12-18, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9635 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: LUDI CIRCENSES: the place-lists
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9636 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Veneta Flag!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9637 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Albata Flag!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9638 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9639 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9640 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9641 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9642 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9643 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9644 From: Brett Murphy Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9645 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9646 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Munis is starting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9647 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9648 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9649 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: The Munus is Completed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9650 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9651 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9652 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: A Link toa Dying Past
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9653 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9654 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: MEGALESIA COMBATS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9655 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Iraqi National Museum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9656 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9657 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL CONTRIBUTION
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9658 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9659 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9660 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9661 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9662 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: The Online Temple of Ivno
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9663 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: The Online Temple of Ivno
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9664 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Taxes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9665 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9666 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9667 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Chariot Races First Round!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9668 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] explorator 5.50
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9669 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] Explorator 5.50 (extra)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9670 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9671 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9672 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: The Vindolanda Tablets Again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9673 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9674 From: TiAnO Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9675 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9676 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 50-1
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9677 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9678 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: CEREALIA MUNERA - FIRST DAY OF FIGHTS!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9679 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9680 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9681 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9682 From: politicog Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9683 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9684 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9685 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL CONTRIBUTION - THE TEMPLE OF CERES ON THE AVENTINE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9686 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9687 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9688 From: politicog Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9689 From: Roger Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Election Procedures
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9690 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9691 From: Roger Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Officers of the Sodalitas Latinitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9692 From: a_cato2002 Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Canada Orientalis Taxes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9693 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9694 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9695 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9696 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9697 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9698 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9699 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: NR website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9700 From: Daniel O. Villanueva Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Bienvenida Drusilla Quinta Galla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9701 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9702 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9703 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9704 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: NR website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9705 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9706 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9707 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9708 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9709 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9710 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9711 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Election Procedures
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9712 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9713 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Away
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9714 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9715 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9716 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9717 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9718 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9719 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9720 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Curse Tablets (Defixiones)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9721 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9722 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9723 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9724 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9725 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9726 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9727 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: NR website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9728 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9729 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9730 From: The Author Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Tax Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9731 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9732 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Tax Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9733 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Anti-U.S.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9734 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9735 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Chariot Races Semi-final!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9736 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9737 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9738 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Tax Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9739 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9740 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9741 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9742 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9743 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Roman Concrete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9744 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Oath as Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9745 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9746 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9747 From: wuffa2001 Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9748 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Any Nova Roman Trucker's?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9749 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL MINUTE - ELEUSIS, A CITY FOR CERES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9750 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re:[Nova-Roma] Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9751 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9752 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Fwd: Iranian Culture
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9753 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9754 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9755 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9756 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9757 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9758 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Off again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9759 From: Brett Murphy Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Requesting Comments and Discussion....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9760 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Duke Papyrus Archive
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9761 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9762 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9763 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9764 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Requesting Comments and Discussion....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9765 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re:[Nova-Roma] Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9766 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Searching for Seneca online
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9767 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Searching for Seneca online
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9768 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: EDICTVM·PRAETORICIVM·DE·SCRIBAE·DESIGNATIONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9769 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9770 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9771 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: CEREALIA HISTORICAL TIME - Ceres, the Plebeain Goddess!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9772 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9773 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Chariot Races Final!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9774 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Oath as Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9775 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Latin translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9776 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9777 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Not far away afterall!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9778 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9779 From: Rob Sullivan Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Chariot Races Final!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9780 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Abbreviations in Latin Inscriptions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9781 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9782 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9783 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Anti-U.S.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9784 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Roman Concrete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9785 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Off again



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9635 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: LUDI CIRCENSES: the place-lists
Salvete Omnes,

the Megalesia Ludi are accomplished and the first Ludi Circenses too.
The place-lists of players and factiones have been reseted in the
official website http://aediles.novaroma.org/ludicircenses.htm

The website of each Factio have been updated with the latest news and
new players and new team standings.
Visit the following websites:
RUSSATA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/russata/
ALBATA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/albata/
VENETA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/veneta/
PRAESINA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/praesina/

I thank my wonderful Cohors for the good job, specially Illustrus
Iovinus for histories and Gnaeus Salix Galaicus for the organization.
Now Crerealia Ludi are started, enjoy the new virtual chariot races
by the Plebeian Aediles.

The Place-list are following:

..................................
FACTIONES PLACE-LIST '56
..................................
1) Russata ... 18 points
2) Albata ... 14 p.
3) Veneta ... 9 p.
4) Praesina ... 8 p.


..................................
AURIGAE PLACE-LIST '56
..................................
1) Gn. Octavius Noricus [Impactus Infrenatus] ... 10 p.
2) T. Apollonius Cicatrix [Eversor] ... 6 p.
3) Ga. Minucius Iovinus [Ossifragus] ... 5 p.
4) G. Iulius Scaurus [Raptor Cruentus] ... 5 p.


Enjoy Cerealia Ludi!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9636 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Veneta Flag!!
Avete, citizens!

The members of the Factio Veneta have already elected their flag-
logo-banner. The symbol of their factio.

It was made by the honorable Gaius Linius Falco.


You can see in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta/files/veneta-copy.jpg

Valete et Bona Fortuna!


Salix Galaicus
Scriba Primus Ludorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9637 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Albata Flag!!
Avete, citizens!

The members of the Factio Albata have already elected their flag-
logo-banner. The symbol of their factio.
Well... It´s a famous statue. A bit heavy flag :-)

You can see in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata/files/albata.gif


Valete et Bona Fortuna!

Salix Galaicus
Scriba Primus Ludorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9638 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
to put our citizens and especially our already
overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
least three mock elections.

Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
it not be better simply to knock together a computer
programme which could run simulations of the various
different systems? We could then run as many
variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
without causing disruption.

Sadly I don't have the expertise to volunteer to
create such a programme, but I know that they can be
and have been made, and my (limited) understanding is
that it would not be difficult for someone who knew
what to do.

Have we any citizens who are qualified to say whether
this would be practical?

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9639 From: biojournalism Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice when the Roman
Times is published next? I'd like to read your wonderful
publication, but don't know the Web site to click on. Or anyone can
email me the Web site if it's up there already. Thanks.
Octavia
biojournalism@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9640 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:

> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.

Salve Cordus,

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't say as Rogator I'm
exactly overworked. If it weren't for the Tribucian run-offs as
Rogator I'd have had nothing to do for the past 3-1/2 months as no
legislation had been brought forth before any Comitia for
consideration. I'd say rather than overworked, I'd say just a little
bored with seeing the same old faces every month. <G>

While computer simulations are nice and have a purpose their ability
to simulate real human behavior is limited as humans do things
outside the parameters of pure logic. On the otherhand it would be
real hard to get up the voter gusto for a mock election when its hard
enough to get only a handful of Nova Roman's to vote in real
elections.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9641 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Salve,

A Computer Simulation would require data on historic
voting patterns in Nova Roma. Obtaining that data
would violate the privacy of our citizens. Once the
program was written there is no way to insure it's
accurate without comparing the data to a series of
actual elections.

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus
> and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.
>
> Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
> it not be better simply to knock together a computer
> programme which could run simulations of the various
> different systems? We could then run as many
> variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
> without causing disruption.
>
> Sadly I don't have the expertise to volunteer to
> create such a programme, but I know that they can be
> and have been made, and my (limited) understanding
> is
> that it would not be difficult for someone who knew
> what to do.
>
> Have we any citizens who are qualified to say
> whether
> this would be practical?
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus
> For a better Internet experience
> http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9642 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Salve Aule Apolloni,

> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.
>
> Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
> it not be better simply to knock together a computer
> programme which could run simulations of the various
> different systems? We could then run as many
> variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
> without causing disruption.

Not a problem; all I have to do is make a copy of the regular
voting program and remove the line that strips out the voter codes.
The Rogatores usually check these for validity and eliminate
duplicates, but for a fake election I can do this programmatically.

I could set up a fake election, if needed, very quickly.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9643 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
Gentlemen and Ladies,

I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, member of the gens Tarquitii, hereby
officially request the proper procedures to submit the following Lex
for approval:
=================================================================

Lex Tarquitius Colonie

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a colony.

2. Applications for all Colonies must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.
2b. All Colonies awaiting approval are
considered "Provisional Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate
Approval is Granted to the colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Colony Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Colony by the Providence's Governor.
6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Colony".

8. After initial opening of Colony, if a person has paid their dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Colony Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor and
Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Colony:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003


*****And to see who is still reading....m\next, I plan to author a
Gens reform bill, to submit in June....time to lose some "closed"
gens!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9644 From: Brett Murphy Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Is that on the subject of colonies or am I mistaken?

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9645 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Salve Publius Tarquitius,

First I would like to make some points about your
proposal.

When the Tax Lex was proposed I sugested that the
Consul change the Phrase "Prolatariat" to "Capti
Censi" because the phrase "Prolatariat" had picked up
some modern political baggage that could cause
misunderstandings. Unfortunally the same holds for the
phrase "colony". It has too many modern undertones of
explotation by an Impearlist power. I Think we would
be better served if we used the Phrase Municipia
instead of Colony for our local groups.

Next is the geographic size of a Municipia. I would
like a provision that limited any Municipia to a size
that would make face to face meetings convinent,
perhaps a requirement that a Municipia can't include
citizens who live more than 100 KM, (62 miles) from a
central meeting point. For example if a Municipia of
Atlanta was organized members would have to reside
within 100 KM (62 Miles) of Atlanta. I would also like
a requirement that Municipiae hold at least quaterly
face to face meetings.

Also before we start recognizing Municipiae we need a
standard charter that is similar to Nova Roma's
Constitution that each Municipia would operate under.

To get this measure placed before one of the Comitiae
you will have to get one of the Consuls or one of the
tribunes to promulgate it.

--- William Rogers <wlr107@...> wrote:
> Gentlemen and Ladies,
>
> I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, member of the gens
> Tarquitii, hereby
> officially request the proper procedures to submit
> the following Lex
> for approval:
>
=================================================================
>
> Lex Tarquitius Colonie
>
> I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova
> Romans to be active
> as a group and as individuals, the following is
> proposed:
>
> 1. Within a given Providence as geographical
> boundaries, A group of
> THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to
> create a colony.
>
> 2. Applications for all Colonies must be submitted
> to the Senate
> AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
> 2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted
> to the
> Senate by the Governor if the application is
> received 10 days prior
> to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor
> disapproves the
> application, the Governor must forward the
> application and the
> reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their
> review, and possible
> acceptance.
> 2b. All Colonies awaiting approval are
> considered "Provisional Colonies" until
> Gubernatorial, and Senate
> Approval is Granted to the colony.
>
> 3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on
> Colony Council
> (***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid
> dues to Nova Roma)
> Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
> Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
> Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
> Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders
>
> 4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts
> ANNUALLY, in March.
>
> 5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in
> order to be
> eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item
> permitted)
>
> 6. There must be a website created within 15 days of
> approval of the
> Colony by the Providence's Governor.
> 6a. All documents related to the colony shall by
> typed and
> saved on the site website. The originals shall be
> maintained at the
> home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.
>
> 7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of
> Providence (if no
> reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with
> notification of Senate
> required). This will give the colony a "provisional"
> (or "Latin
> Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved
> by the Senate at
> its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the
> Senate, it becomes
> a "Roman Rights Colony".
>
> 8. After initial opening of Colony, if a person has
> paid their dues
> or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the
> colony is
> automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership
> council will
> approve or disapprove the application. If dues are
> then paid to
> council, acceptance is automatic.
>
> 9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings,
> and Leadership
> council must meet monthly.
>
> 10. Colony Dues - Set by colony, but must be
> reported to Governor and
> Consuls quarterly.
>
> 11. Appointed positions within Colony:
> a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose.
> but here are some
> recommendations:
>
> 1. Webmaster
> 2. Quaestor
> 3. Scribe (P/R man)
> 4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and
> Governor
> approval)
>
>
================================================================
>
> I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the
> Tribunes of the
> Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate.
> Please feel free to
> post on this, as I am here to learn!
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
> Nova Roman Assudii 2003
>
>
> *****And to see who is still reading....m\next, I
> plan to author a
> Gens reform bill, to submit in June....time to lose
> some "closed"
> gens!
>
>
>
>
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9646 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Munis is starting
Avete Omnes,

In the Nova Roma chatroom, the Munus is just now starting.

Please feel free to join us!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9647 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Salve!

--- biojournalism <biojournalism@...> schrieb:
> Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice
> when the Roman
> Times is published next?

Eh, Roman Time = Central European Time (CET). So why
should that be published then? It's one of the world
standart times...

Vale,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Bis zu 100 MB Speicher bei http://premiummail.yahoo.de
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9648 From: A. Hirtius Helveticus Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Or did I miss something ;o)

Valete,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Bis zu 100 MB Speicher bei http://premiummail.yahoo.de
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9649 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-12
Subject: The Munus is Completed.
Avete Omnes,

The Munus is now completed. I would like to thank Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus for putting on these excellent games.

Also, I have a transcript of the games if anyone would like it.

Please email me privately at alexious@....

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9650 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Salve Honorable XX!

Roman Times is web-based newsletter that is produced by the "Officina
ad Consuetudines et Communicationes" (Relations and Communication
Office), which is a part of my Cohors Consulis. The present issue of
Romas Times is the fifth that is published and You can find it at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/

>Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice when the Roman
>Times is published next? I'd like to read your wonderful
>publication, but don't know the Web site to click on. Or anyone can
>email me the Web site if it's up there already. Thanks.
>Octavia
>biojournalism@...

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9651 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Salve Honorable Octavia Fabia Scriba!

Very sorry I forgot to include your name Soror! Can only say that I
am very tired after being out taking care of a "sad" kid last night,
I still have to struggle to get her" on her feet". I hope You will
forgive me for my mistake?

>Salve Honorable XX!
>
>Roman Times is web-based newsletter that is produced by the "Officina
>ad Consuetudines et Communicationes" (Relations and Communication
>Office), which is a part of my Cohors Consulis. The present issue of
>Romas Times is the fifth that is published and You can find it at:
>http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
>
>>Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice when the Roman
>>Times is published next? I'd like to read your wonderful
>>publication, but don't know the Web site to click on. Or anyone can
>>email me the Web site if it's up there already. Thanks.
>>Octavia
> >biojournalism@...

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9652 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: A Link toa Dying Past
G. Iuslius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

I've tried to post a Roman-related link on this list every day. The
link I post today is only tangentially related to Rome, but represents
a genuine atrocity of war. The British Museum in the days before Gulf
War II set up a mirror of the Iraqi National Museum's website (the
site is in German):

http://info.uibk.ac.at/c/c6/c616/museum/museum.html

The National Museum was the depository of the largeest collection of
ancient near eastern artifacts in the world. Since Thursday its
contents have been looted, some stolen, others simply destroyed; even
the bank-vault-like doors of the most secure area of the museum, where
the most valuable treasures of Iraq were stored for safekeeping, were
forced and the contents looted. Virtually all the archaeological
evidence of the Roman provinces of Assyria and Mesopotamia has been
lost (only the inscription in Dura-Europos in Syria remains, for the
time being, safe). The Bush administration had assured international
societies of archaeologists, historians, and museum curators that the
National Museum in Baghdad would be guarded to prevent what has now
happened. The U.S. had enough troops to surround the Ministry of Oil
in Baghdad with orders to shoot looters on sight (last night I saw a
few of them being interviewed about their mission by the BBC at the
ministry). You can see the National Museum from the roof of the
Ministry of Oil; it's not that far away. A tank and a squad of
soldiers would have deterred the pillaging of the museum as effective
as it did that of the Ministry of Oil. The museum director and staff
had begged the U.S. commanders to detail a small force to deter
looting. But 8,000 years of human history carefully catalogued and
secured for historians to use to study the origins of human
civilization simply don't register in the priorities of the architects
of this war; the Ministry of Oil did. Take a good look at the brief
online presentation of a small fraction of its holdings. It may be
the last time anyone who can't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on
the black market art trade will be able to see the treasures of
Mesopotamian civilization.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9653 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
Salve Octavia,

at the address given you by the Illustrus Consul you can find the
last version published at 1st April. As chief of the Officiana
Consularis, I can say you we'll publish the new Roman Times in May.
You can receive the printable version of the magazine too ordering
free by the website.
Please, check the official website for the new version and thank you
for your attenction.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salve Honorable XX!
>
> Roman Times is web-based newsletter that is produced by
the "Officina
> ad Consuetudines et Communicationes" (Relations and Communication
> Office), which is a part of my Cohors Consulis. The present issue
of
> Romas Times is the fifth that is published and You can find it at:
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
>
> >Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice when the Roman
> >Times is published next? I'd like to read your wonderful
> >publication, but don't know the Web site to click on. Or anyone can
> >email me the Web site if it's up there already. Thanks.
> >Octavia
> >biojournalism@h...
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9654 From: Alejandro Carneiro Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: MEGALESIA COMBATS
Due to the lack of writers for the stories, these combats only have
one, the final, written for the honorable Marinus.

PLAYERS
----------------


Caius Argentinus Cicero
Gladiator : Cathedralis de Santiago
Type : Retiarius
--------------------
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
Gladiator: Lusitanicus
Type: Secutor
---------------------
Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus.
Gladiator: Brutus Verbenatus Montanus
type: Homoplachus
-------------------------
L. Arminius Faustus
Gladiator: Iasion
Type: Thrax
-------------------
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Gladiator: Atrox
Type: Dimachaerus
-------------------
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa.
gladiator: Gulo (the Wolverine)
type: thraex.
---------------------
Ennia Durmia Gemina
Gladiator: Anfioxus Lanceolatus
type: murmillo
------------------------
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Gladiator: Japigius
Type: Dimachaerus
--------------------------



COMBATS
----------------------

Quarters

1st combat

Cathedralis de Santiago (Retiarius) - Lusitanicus (Secutor)

Result:
Winner: Lusitanicus
Cathedralis Survivor

----------------------------

2nd combat

Brutus Verbenatus Montanus (Homoplachus) - Iasion (Thrax)

Result:
Winner: Iasion
Verbenatus Montanus is dead

------------------------------

3rd Combat

Atrox (Dimachaerus) - Gulo (Thraex)

Result:
Winner: Gulo
Atrox is dead

--------------------

4th Combat

Anfioxus Lanceolatus (murmillo) - Japigius (Dimachaerus)

Result:
Winner: Anfioxus Lanceolatus
Japigius survivor

------------------------


Semifinals

1st

Lusitanicus (Secutor) - Iasion (Thrax)

Result:
Winner: Lusitanicus
Iasion survivor

-------------------------

2nd

Gulo (Thraex) - Anfioxus Lanceolatus (murmillo)

Result:
Winner: Anfioxus Lanceolatus
Gulo survivor

--------------------

THE GREAT FINAL

Lusitanicus (Secutor) - Anfioxus Lanceolatus (murmillo)

Result:
Winner: Lusitanicus
Anfioxus Lanceolatus survivor

In our first combat of the day, the murmillo Anfioxus Lanceolatus
is pitted against Lusitanicus, who fights in the secutor style.

The two combatants face the podium, saluting the master of the games
and the Chief Vestal... and now they square off!

Both men circle slowly on the sand, Anphioxus working out a loop
of his weighted sword. Lusitanicus ballances easily in middle guard
position, waiting. Now Anphioxus makes his move! The sword strikes
strongly, but Lusitanicus isn't there. He's danced back and now he
closes on the murmillo who has to fend off a flurry of sword cuts
with his shield! Butting Lusitanicus away, Anphioxus shortens
his grip on the shield and NOW HE HAS LUSITANICUS IN A BIND! The
secutor's sword is caught between his body and the rival sword, as it
presses ever closer to his chest! It looks like the end for
Lusitanicus here... But no! With a brutal knee to the groin he's
broken out of the clinch, and now Anphioxus is down on the sand!
Lusitanicus kicks the shield away, and places his sword point at the
throat of Anphioxus, who is still gasping, doubled over in
excruciating pain!

But the Chief Vestal is feeling merciful today folks! She's indicated
to the master of the games that Anphioxus is shall live to fight
another day. Lusitanicus nods, lowers his sword, and offers a hand
to help his vanquished opponent to his feet. Now Lusitanicus has
made sure that Anphioxus can stand, and he's letting him walk away
to the applause of the crowd.


The Megalesia Champion is Lusitanicus of Livia Cornelia Hibernia!!!!



Salix Galaicus
Scriba Primus Ludorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9655 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Iraqi National Museum
Salvete Quirites,

I Have just sent the following message to President
Bush.

Mr. President,

I'm shocked and saddened that US Forces took no action
to protect the Iraqi National Museum in Baghdad.
Relics that represent the common hieratage of all
Western nations have been looted in the greatest
cultural loss since the Library of Alexanderia was
lost in Ancient times. Our Failure to protect our
common history has placed an indelible stain on the
liberation of the Iraqi peoples.

I'm begging you to order that the strictest possible
export restrictions be placed on Iraq to prevent these
priceless relics from being smuggled out of Iraq, and
that you order our forces to lend all possible
assistance to the directors of the Iraqi National
Museum in recovering as much of the collection as
possible.

John Dobbins

Quirites,

I Urge each of you, espically those of you who hold
American Citizenship, to contact the Whitehouse on
behalf of the Iraqi National Museum before it's too
late to recover at least part of the collection.

President Bush's email address is
president@...


L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9656 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
In a message dated 4/13/03 7:19:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lsicinius@... writes:


> I Urge each of you, espically those of you who hold
> American Citizenship, to contact the Whitehouse on
> behalf of the Iraqi National Museum before it's too
> late to recover at least part of the collection.
>
>

As L. Cornelius Sulla already knows, I sent a e-mail yesterday morning to the
Director of the Antiquities at the National Museum condemning the lack of US
response and urging that something be done.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9657 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL CONTRIBUTION
ABOUT THE KIDNAPPING OF CORE I sing the tears of Mother Ceres
Without sleep, mourning on Olympus High Peaks,
Missing beloved Core,
Kidnapped on the deep Hades
By the Invisible God in love
- Tricks of cheerful Venus
That not even brings happiness to the hearts
Of Mortals and Gods.
Sicily noble lands
Springly ever flourishing lands
Valley of the River Ena
Core and the nimphs used to play
Like infant kids
Their innocent tricks.Hear a strange noise?
The basement of Earth shakes
Open its dark mounth
Then from the deepest
Come the God gloriously
His chariot of blackest horses
Shining on ultmost bright goldStrong but soft arms caught the virgin
(Because father Pluto wasn´t so used
To court and love´s ways)
Why, Muses, the King of Hades
Tried a so desesperated measure?
He felt a pain on his heart
Neither nectar our sweetest ambrosia
Haven´t taken out that suffering as well.
Core! He painly desires his niece
Ceres should had undestand
(Thought the almigh Lord of the Deads)
For a brother a daughter she shouldn´t deny!As the golden chariot descended on darkness
Core, on despair, cried for the Mother.
But the Illustrious Klymenos touching the beloved girl
Felt a kind of peace and pleasure
Like a warm wind shaking the flowers
On the bessed valleys of Arcadia
Our when the nimphs sings
On the sacred Idean florest of the Mother of Gods.
While the cave faded the cries of the girl
Core realized a mourning on their ears
The Invisible King was talking to her
Strange speech for the Lord of the Deads´May you loves or hates me
I really don´t care now
On the name of my ciclopian helmet
Or even of the Stigian River
Ceres can do all noise on Olympus
Standing on the knee of Themis
Can even Iove threats me
Or the gods, on assembly, coming here
Triyng to change my mind
I shall not abandon you!
Be my Queen, Core beloved,
Like the your mother´s seeds
That sleeps waiting to grown
On the edge of my reign!´ Enjoy the Ludi! Vale bene in pacem deorum,L. Arminius FaustusPlebeain Aedile REMEMBER: Tomorrow the first round of the Gladiator Show!


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9658 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
Ave!

I also have written to the President as well.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Iraqi National Museum


In a message dated 4/13/03 7:19:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lsicinius@... writes:


> I Urge each of you, espically those of you who hold
> American Citizenship, to contact the Whitehouse on
> behalf of the Iraqi National Museum before it's too
> late to recover at least part of the collection.
>
>

As L. Cornelius Sulla already knows, I sent a e-mail yesterday morning to the
Director of the Antiquities at the National Museum condemning the lack of US
response and urging that something be done.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9659 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Salvete omnes,

Just a quick note for Marcus Octavius Germanicus; I had a problem
trying to log into the chat room in the NR Forum. On the log in page
I enter my name, password, the page begins to load returns to the
same log in page. Have there been any changes to the chat room entry
format while I was away? Thanks!

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9660 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Salve Quinte Lani,

This will happen if you have cookies disabled, or if you're coming
through some sort of proxy (intermediary) server that might cause
your IP address to change during a session. AOL users using the AOL
browser also have this problem.

I recommend you switch to a non-AOL browser if you're on AOL (use
Mozilla, Netscape, M*crosoft, or Opera), and be sure that cookies
are enabled.

Vale, Octavius.

> Salvete omnes,
>
> Just a quick note for Marcus Octavius Germanicus; I had a problem
> trying to log into the chat room in the NR Forum. On the log in page
> I enter my name, password, the page begins to load returns to the
> same log in page. Have there been any changes to the chat room entry
> format while I was away? Thanks!
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9661 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters of its type in history. The following points apply:

* Some of the looting was certainly done by desperate people looking for objects to sell for food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by people with underworld connections hoping to sell the works on the black market.

* While it is unfortunate that the museum was not properly guarded at the time, as a former military man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at the time, the limited resources available to deal with it, and the simple probability that protection for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.

* However, a museum is a vital part of any culture's collective memory, particularly a culture as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.

* Since our military is currently responsible for what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art objects were found all over Germany.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9662 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: The Online Temple of Ivno
The Online Temple of Ivno

The online temple of Juno/Ivno is back up and functoning!

http://www.geocities.com/cas_the_author/temple/

Seia Silvania Atia
Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9663 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: The Online Temple of Ivno
The Online Temple of Ivno

The online temple of Juno/Ivno is back up and functoning!

http://www.geocities.com/cas_the_author/temple/

Seia Silvania Atia
Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9664 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Taxes
Salvete,

I am ready to pay my taxes, but have a couple of questions.

1. May I pay for more than one year at a time (say 2 or 3 years)?

2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?

3. Do I pay the same for my children as for myself (They are 4 and 6
years now)?

4. Do I pay the same rate for the minors as for myself?

I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
website.

I also need to have my email address officially changed.

Pax,
SSAtia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9665 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: CHAT ROOM (Marcus Octavius Germanicus)
Salve again Marce!

Thanks! I'm going through microsoft now, cookies enabled and chat is
working just fine now.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
>
> Salve Quinte Lani,
>
> This will happen if you have cookies disabled, or if you're coming
> through some sort of proxy (intermediary) server that might cause
> your IP address to change during a session. AOL users using the AOL
> browser also have this problem.
>
> I recommend you switch to a non-AOL browser if you're on AOL (use
> Mozilla, Netscape, M*crosoft, or Opera), and be sure that cookies
> are enabled.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Just a quick note for Marcus Octavius Germanicus; I had a problem
> > trying to log into the chat room in the NR Forum. On the log in
page
> > I enter my name, password, the page begins to load returns to the
> > same log in page. Have there been any changes to the chat room
entry
> > format while I was away? Thanks!
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9666 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Censor M. Octavius
Germanicus, Senator L. Sinicius Drusus, Rogator Q.
Cassius Calvus and all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I'm glad - though not surprised - to hear that our
honourable Censor could put together a simulated
election without any difficulty.

I'm also glad to hear that Rogator Cassius Calvus is
not feeling overworked. I hope this holds true for his
colleagues.

Both the Rogator and Senator Sinicius Drusus expressed
doubts about the usefulness of simulated elections as
opposed to 'real fakes', if I may so name the
alternative. I agree that it would not be easy for a
computer programme to simulate an election so well
that it would tell us who would actually win if the
election were really held - as the Rogator points out,
human eccentricities are hard to model, and as the
Senator says, we cannot use data from past elections.

But surely that's not what a simulation would be
intended to achieve? As far as I can see a
mock-election or simulation would have three goals:
1. To discover any circumstances in which the system
breaks down.
2. To see how effective the system is at reducing
run-off elections.
3. To see how closely the result corresponds to the
desires of the voters.

The best way to achieve 1 is to put the system through
as many permutations as possible - not just one test,
but many tests with many different inputs (many voters
vs. few, many candidates vs. few, one very popular
candidate vs. a close race), to make sure that nothing
is overlooked. To do that there would be no need for
the simulated voters to actually behave like voters -
their decisions could be randomly generated. A
computer simulation would be quite adequate for this.

To test 2 would again need lots of runs with different
variables, to see how often the system fails to fill
the vancancies. Again, there would be no need for the
voters to behave other than randomly.

To test 3 the approach must be to compare the result
of the election with the desires of the voters. To do
that with a 'real' mock-election one would have to get
voters to vote and also to list the candidates in
order of preference; then one would compare the result
with the majority of the preferences, to see how
closely they correspond (e.g. if the majority would
prefer to see A elected and, failiing that, B, then a
system which produced A would be good, one which
produced B moderate, and one which produced C
appalling). This would be much more difficult to do
with real voters than with computer voters, to whom
one could simply allot preferences at random and then
programme them to vote according to those preferences
in a certain way. Again, it would be desirable to run
the tests repeatedly, varying different factors.

I can't help feeling that if both the Rogator and the
Senator have a similar assumption which I don't have,
it is probably my fault rather than theirs, so I'd be
grateful if they would point out the fourth goal of a
simulation which would require voters to actually vote
in a realistic way.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9667 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Chariot Races First Round!
Salvete omnes,

The first round of the chariot races are here! 21 Chariots are
preparing to compete for the honour and glory of their factions and
patrons! However, not all the factions are out in equal force. The
Reds have massed many chariots, while the Blues, perhaps disheartened
with previous performances, have entered only two! Without further
ado.... The races!

*******************Race 1************

Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
factio: Albata
driver: Carolus Daemonicus
chariot: B.S.D. Liber
q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
fin tactic: pass closely the spina

Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
Factio: Veneta
Chariot: Orionis Draco
Driver: Equus Magnus
Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
Finals Strategy: (2)

Name: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Factio: Russata
Chariot: Proeliator
Driver: Gustavus Barbarus
Tactics for quarters and semi-finals: 2) To pass the curves closely
the "spina" of the circus
Tactics for the final: 6) To hurry in the straight lines

G. Iulius Scaurus
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Cethinus Aspis
Chariot: Raptor Cruentus
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
Tactics for the final: To hurry in the last laps

Quite a lineup for this first race, with one chariot from each factio
competing. We have the veteran Carolus Daemonus, driving the chariot
B.S.D. Liber for his patron Marcus Octavius Germanicus and for the
honour of factio Albata. Titus Licinius Crassus has hired the fiery
Equus Magnus to drive his chariot Orionis Draco, for Veneta. Another
chariot that we've seen before, Proeliator, and its illustrous patron
Caeso Favius Quintilianus. And finally, driving for the greens of
Praesina, Raptor Cruentus, bought by Iulius Scaurus. But wait! The
Aedile, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, has shaken the white
flag allowing the competitors to go! And so they do! Proeliator
immediately takes the first corner as sharply as possible - By Ceres,
that was close! Proeliator's career nearly came to a halt there.
However, the risk has paid off - Proeliator is slightly ahead of the
others. Just behind, Raptor Cruentus is catching up on the
straights, while Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber are keeping a steady
pace behind. This pace is kept for another lap, but then Raptor
Cruentus makes its move! Only a small distance behind Proeliator,
Cethenus Aspinus uses his whip to lash the poor horses of
Proeliator! Distracted, they rear up, and Cethinus Aspinus is too
busy watching Proeliator to noticed he's about to crash! Proeliator
and Raptor Cruentis are hopelessly entangled, and B.S.D. Liber and
Orionis Draco cruise smoothly past them. Not wanting to take any
risks, they both take it fairly easy - no point taking risks with
only two left in the race!

1st: Accident!
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Orionis Draco
4th B.S.D. Liber

Qualify for the semi-finals: Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber.

**************************Race 2*********************

Name: Sextus Arminius Remus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Remus
Chariot: Fulminatora
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To support a constant pace
Tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

Name: Tiberius Annaeus Otho
Factio: Praesina
Chariot: Basilea
Driver: Septimus Raurax
Tactics for the quarters/semis: 6 (Hurry in straight lines)
Tactics for the finals: 1 (Hurry in the last laps)

Name: Marcus Octavius Solaris
Factio: Albata
Driver: Damnator
Tactics in Quarters/Semis: lash the rivals (4)
Tactics in Final: push the rivals to the wall of the circus (5)

Name:Gallus Minucius Iovinus
Factio: Veneta
Driver: Pontius Falx
Chariot: Ossifragus (the sea eagle)
Tactics for qual and semi: 2
Tactics for final:6

As the last of the wreckage from the previous race's crash is cleared
away, I can see that we once again have several veterans taking the
field. For Veneta, we have the renowned Ossifragus. For Albata, we
have Damnator, the chariot of Marcus Octavius Solaris. And bearing
the honour of Praesina is Basilea, the chariot of Tiberius Anneus
Otho. Also racing is Fulminatora, hoping to carry a red into the
semi-finals. The Aedile gives the signal for the race to start, and
quickly the chariots race off. As they do, a flag springs up from
the audience, saying, "Come on Veneta! We've got the organiser on
our side this time!" Yes, I can see Curio is definitely grinning at
that - he is indeed a supporter of Veneta. However, his face turns
to dismay as he gazes at the race track. Ossifragus has been trying
the same trick that Proeliator used to good advantage, but the
chariot is skidding slightly, meaning that he's lost time on the
others, rather than gained it. Meanwhile, Damnator has been trying
to catch up with the leading pair, Basilea, and Fulminatora, but
they're both staying clear of the famous Damnator and his cruel
whip. Basilea and Fulminatora are engaged in a deadly battle for
1st, but neither can gain an advantage. Meanwhile, Ossifragus
finally gets the hang of passing close to the spina of the circus,
and draws up beside Damnator. However, the infuriated Damnator whips
the horses drawing Ossifragus. They manage to stay on track, but the
shock causes them to fall behind once more. This done, Damnator
concentrates on trying to catch up with the others. It looks like
there is too little time, but then, catching everyone unawares,
Basilea's wheel shakes a bit, causing the chariot to go awry, and
then the wheel falls off completely! The enraged Praesina fans
shout "Sabotage! Sabotaaaaaaaage!!" And indeed this is what it looks
like, since Basilea is a well-made chariot. But no one know which of
the three others committed the crime! With Basilea out of the race,
Fulminatora easily takes first place, and Damnator takes second.

1st: Fulminatora
2nd: Sabotage!
3rd: Damnator
4th: Ossifragus

Qualify for semi-final: Fulminatora and Damnator

*******************************Race 3*************************

Name: Lucius Arminius Metellus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Aegeus
Chariot: Metella Maxima
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To hurry in the straight lines
Tactics for the Finals: hurry in the last laps

Name: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Factio: Albata
Chariot: Impactus Infrenatus
Driver: Concordius
Tactics in Quarters/Semis: 5
Tactics in Finals: 6

Name:Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Constantius
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Polycrates.
Tactics for quarter/semi finals: To support a
constant pace.
Tactics for finals: Push rivals to wall of the
circus.

Name:Titus Arminius Volusius
Factio: Russata
Driver: Lepidus
Chariot: Velox
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To lash the rivals
His/her tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

The last of the Venetas has raced, and now there are two Russatas
alongside the Praesina and Albata! The Albata fans will be glad to
see that the experienced Impactus Infrenatus is taking the field, but
Polycrates of the greens, and Velox and Metella Maxima of Russata
will be trying to stop him winning. There goes the signal, and there
go the chariots! Metella Maxima and Velox both get an early
advantage, and vie with each other for position. Polycrates keeps a
fairly constant speed, waiting for the best time to overtake the
others. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus is hoping to push one of his
rivals out of the way. However, the driver, Concordius, is so busy
looking for such opportunities that he falls behind the other
chariots. Velox, noticing Metella Maxima pull ahead, whips one of
its horses. However, the tough creature takes no notice, and
continues racing. Metella Maxima moves over to the side a little,
hoping to avoid the whip of Velox. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus
pulls up beside Polycrates, who, surprisingly, voluntarily pulls back
rather than be pushes into the sides of the circus! Polycrates
continues to look for his opportunity, but is now in fourth.
Impactus Infrenatus, continuing this wild dash, accelerates between
Metella Maxima and Velox. However, it is now that Concordius makes
his mistake, while wedged between two other chariots. He realises
that being between two Russatas is not good, so he moves the chariot
right, pushing into Metella Maxima. The horses, not used to this new
kind of tactic, are unable to stop the inevitable collision with the
wall. With Metella Maxima out, Velox uses Impactus Infrenatus'
instability to pull ahead, and Polycrates also sees his chance.
After having kept a constant pace throughout, he pushes forward,
passing Impactus Infrenatus at the last moment!

1st: Velox
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Polycrates
4th: Impactus Infrenatus

Qualify for Semi-final: Velox and Polycrates

*****************************Race 4**********************

Name: Titus Labienus Fortunatus
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pelops Celer
Chariot: Volatilis
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: Hurry in the straight lines.
Tactics for the finals: Hurry in the straight lines.

Name: M.Tullius Philippicae
Factio: Albata
Chariot name: Alea Iacta Est
The name of your driver: Aurelius
Tactics for the quarter-finals: To hurry in the straight lines
Tactics for the semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus
Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines

Name: Spurius Arminius Carus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Carinus
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To support a constant pace
Tactics for the finals: To support a constant pace

In this the fourth race, there is one of every factio except Veneta
taking part. For Russata, Carinus is racing. For Albata, the
symbolic Alea Iacta Est. And for Praesina, the veteran Volatilis,
under the patronship of Titus Labienus Fortunatus. Perhaps
Fortunatus is hoping that his name will apply to his chariot, yes?
And it looks like it might. Volatilis gets a good start, with Alea
Iacta Est just behind. Tailing them is Carinus, hoping for a good
opportunity to overtake. This race all seems to be about position,
and each chariot is doing their best to gain every valuable second
over the opponent. Alea Iacta Est gains a little ground on
Volatilis, with Carinus continuing to dog the tracks of Alea Iacta
Est. But now Aurelius, driver of Alea Iacta Est, manages a brilliant
manoeuvre. He whips the horses into a frenzy, making them push past
Volatilis, and then swings his chariot into Volatilis' path, forcing
Pelops Celer to stop. This done, he accelerates once more. Although
Pelops Celer gets the horses moving again expertly, the delay is too
much, and Carinus also overtakes. Alea Iacta Est, however, is
unbeatable, and takes first place comfortably.

1st: Alea Iacta Est
2nd: Carinus
3rd: Volatilis

Qualifies for Semi-final: Alea Iacta Est

************************Race 5

Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pugio
Name of Chariot:Green Flash
Tactics: Hurry in last laps

Name: L. Arminius Cotta
Factio: Russata
Driver: Oros Cottiae
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall
of the circus,
Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus,

Name: Kaeso Arminius Cato
Factio: Russata
Driver: Drausius
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines

There are two Russatas in this race, leaving the Praesina, Pugio,
feeling distinctly uneasy. Even worse, he starts between Oros
Cottiae and Drausius - what's the phrase? A rock and... Oh! There
they go! None of them seems able to get an advantage, and they're
racing in a uniform line. Perhaps the drivers were once
legionaries. Drausius, frustrated with his lack of immediate
success, starts to bring his whip to bear in Pugio, who controls his
team of horses, and stops the whip from having any large effect.
They continue racing, with Oros Cottiae simply awaiting the right
moment to strike. Halfway through the race, he decides that moment
is now. He moves inward, hoping to knock Pugio into Drausius.
However, Pugio, with amazing reflexes, professionally accelerates
away, letting Oros Cottiae crash into Drausius. Amazing! The two
Russatas have crashed and brought each other out of the race! Pugio
raises his hand, acknowledging the applause, and easily glides into
first place.

1st: Pugio
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Accident!

Qualifies for Semi-final: Pugio

**************************Race 6************************

Name: Philippus Arminius Remus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Remus Viliamus
Chariot: Unarmed and dangerous
Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall
of the circus
Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus

Name: Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Italicus
Chariot name: Essedum
Your tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals,
Your tactics for the finals: To hurry in the last laps,

Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Factio: Albata
Driver: Draco Borealis
Chariot: Imperator Invictus
Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)

This last race should have a Russata, Unarmed and Dangerous, a
Praesina, Essedum, and an Albata, Imperator Invictus, driving.
However, earlier today, a man was found trying to damage Essedum.
After being told that he would be free to go if he told us of his
employer, it turned out that he was working for Philippus Arminius
Remus, the patron of Unarmed and Dangerous. Sir, we have decided to
take no further action, but you have been disqualified from this
race! Please do not consider using such dishonourable tactics in the
future! Consequently, this race is between only two chariots, a
green and white. And there they go! Immediately, Essedum starts to
lash the horses of Imperator Invictus. Angered, Draco Borealis,
driver of Imperator Invictus, responds by forcing his way closer to
Essedum, trying to push Essedum against the walls of the circus.
However, Essedum refuses to give ground, and they continue to make
their way round the track, both of them continuing to violently
attempt to put their opponent out of the race! At one point,
Italicus, Essedum's driver, lashes Draco Borealis on the hip!
However, the endurant Draco Borealis just ignores the pain, and slams
swiftly into Essedum. Caught unawares, Italicus falls sideways, out
of the chariot! Luckily, apart from some minor bruises, Italicus
seems to be fine. Without control, Essedum soon falls behind
Imperator Invictus, who takes first place!

1st: Imperator Invictus
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Convicted of sabotage

Qualifies for semi-final: Imperator Invictus.

The first round is over, quirites! We have nine qualifiers:
Orionis Draco, (Veneta)
B.S.D. Liber, (Albata)
Fulminatora, (Russata)
Damnator, (Albata)
Velox, (Russata)
Polycrates, (Praesina)
Alea Iacta Est, (Albata)
Pugio, (Praesina)
Imperator Invictus. (Albata)

Of these, there are 4 Albata, 2 Russata, 2 Praesina, and 1 Veneta.
On the 15th, these nine drivers will race to find the four
finalists! Don't miss it!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9668 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] explorator 5.50
Fwd.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: David Meadows
To: explorator
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:43 AM
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 5.50


================================================================
explorator 5.50 April 13, 2003
================================================================
Editor's note: Depending on your mail software, some urls may
wrap (especially those from the Telegraph) which will require
you to rebuild the url at your end; if you get a 'file not
found', check to see if the url wrapped on you. Most urls should
be active for at least eight hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!
================================================================
================================================================

Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Bill Kennedy, Donna Hurst, Michael Oberndorf,
Chris Renaud, Hernan Astudillo, Mike Ruggeri, Louis A. Okin, Yonatan
Nadelman, Eleftheria Mantzouka, John McMahon, Leanne Archer,
W. Richard Frahm, Jennifer Wees, Dave Sowdon, and Karl Wittwer
for headses upses this week (a.a.h.i.h.l.n.o.o.)

================================================================
================================================================
AFRICA, EUROPE, AND ASIA
================================================================
The major news of the week, of course, is that the Baghdad Museum
was looted this week ... here's various coverage:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2942449.stm
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=396743
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=8&u=/ap/20030412/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_plundered_treasures_7
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=570&ncid=753&e=4&u=/nm/20030412/sc_nm/iraq_baghdad_museum_dc
http://www.tercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5702_28456846,00.html (spanish)
http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=34591§ion=NEWS&subsection=NEWS&year=2003&month=4&day=13
http://www.msnbc.com/news/899588.asp

.. and the museum in Mosul:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,935267,00.html

.. and Basra (mentioned only in passing):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52059-2003Apr7.html

.. somewhat disturbing is the last paragraphs of this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/international/worldspecial/10BABY.html

.. and similarly disturbing are the implications of the information
in this one:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/08/wur08.xml

Perhaps even more disturbing is the following tidbit, which appeared
*before* the museums were a target:

http://www.sundayherald.com/32895

.. and this one (guess who isn't a signatory to the Hague Convention?):

http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.print_unique?e=C&f=13008&m=A11&aa=2&eidos=S

.. as mentioned before, a good place to monitor this sort of thing
is Francis Deblauwe's site:

http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/fdeblauwe/iraq.html

Al-Ahram has a couple of good items -- somewhat late -- on the threat
(the last one is by Zahi Hawass):

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/633/hr1.htm
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/633/hr2.htm
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/633/hr3.htm

Back to regular Exploratorish things ... it seems our ancestors
were rather more cannibalistic than previously thought:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/898430.asp
http://autofeed.msn.co.in/pandoraV15/output/A0A01EB7-972F-4586-9324-2D9AD5DF2039.asp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2937187.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993615
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030411071024.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0410_030410_cannibal.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=570&ncid=753&e=6&u=/nm/20030410/sc_nm/health_madcow_dc

A 5000 b.p. dagger has been fished out of a German lake:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=31&art_id=qw1049821560130B265&set_id=1
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1344852,00.html

Tombs in County Meath betray a prehistoric knowledge of solstices and
equinoxes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2928043.stm

They're trying to straighten some of the Avebury stones:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_768525.html
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/08/nave08.xml

Theories about the site of Moses' Mt. Sinai are in the press again:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/898379.asp
http://www.naplesnews.com/03/04/neapolitan/d931763a.htm

Some digs apparently are still going on in the Middle East:

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=84042

Archaeological evidence of a sacrifice supports ancient claims that
Siena was (re)founded by the Romans:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-642214,00.html

Analysis of samples from Tel Rehov apparently provides evidence for
a united monarchy in the tenth century B.C./B.C.E.:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull%26cid=1049942359997

The Time Team folks are excavating a Roman Villa:

http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/Content/news/story.asp?datetime=11+Apr+2003+11%3A24&tbrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=News&category=News&brand=ESTOnline&itemid=IPED11+Apr+2003+07%3A24%3A46%3A450

A portrait bust of Plato languishing in a basement at UCBerkeley is
now considered authentic:

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/04/09_plato.shtml
http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1486~1316148,00.html
http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~1319146,00html

The British Museum made public the discovery of a huge hoard (got it
right that time!) of Iron Age coins along with a gilded silver Roman
helmet:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,931888,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=395096
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/08/ncoin08.xml
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=42629&command=displayContent&sourceNode=42628&contentPK=5049931

Assorted items found by metal detectorists and others in Norfolk:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/story.asp?datetime=11+Apr+2003+06%3A16&tbrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=EDPOnline&itemid=NOED10+Apr+2003+18%3A18%3A30%3A943
================================================================
THE AMERICAS
================================================================
Archaeologists are trying to shed light on what really happened
to Jane McCrea:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--janemccreamystery0409apr09,0,1531751.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

.. and who is buried in Mead's tomb?:

http://www.lowellsun.com/Stories/0,1413,105~4746~1310272,00.html
================================================================
ALSO OF INTEREST
================================================================
Toolmaking appears not to be the sole preserve of the male of our
species:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030407080401.htm

Is it the mummy of Ramses I or not?:

http://www.archaeology.org/cgi-bin/ads_1.pl?iframe

Outdoor life has a piece on how Oetzi and the Amesbury Archer
hunted:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/newsandfacts/snapshots/article/0,13285,441818,00.html

The New York Times has a touristy thing on Seville:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/06/travel/06wdseville.html

Apparently the Middle Ages were rather warmer than today:

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/06/nclim06.xml

The latest stop in the 'return the Partheonon/Elgin marbles to
Greece' tour:

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/04/10/wkd.acropolis.appeal.ap/
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--acropolisappeal0406apr06,0,5975507.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=DFFF43B3-4584-4C87-98A4F9A06D1E2D45

.. and Canada has joined the list of countries urging their return:

http://www.canada.com/montreal/news/story.asp?id=42D4FC00-2326-41F2-B9A2-D564C438A67A

The Harford Farm horde needs funding:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/norfolk/2930287.stm

.. as do the mosaics at Brading Roman Villa:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-637360,00.html

If only other metal detectorists had this woman's attitude:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/devon/2929951.stm

A committee is wrestling with the problem of what should be done
with human remains in museums:

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=15

The manuscript for Beethoven's Ninth is up for auction:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/arts/music/07MANU.html

Going through old papers has cast some doubt on British claims to
have discovered Neptune:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2936663.stm
================================================================
MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
================================================================
Social History of Medicine 16.1 (abstracts available):

http://www3.oup.co.uk/sochis/hdb/Volume_16/Issue_01/

A new issue of The Digger is available:

http://www.archaeo.freeserve.co.uk/THE%20DIGGER/The%20Digger28/index.html

Nature has a feature on the aqueduct at Aspendos:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/030407/030407-3.html
================================================================
ON THE WEB
================================================================
The New York Public Library's online picture collection is worth
a look (check out the folders ... nice pix of native Americans
in various periods):

http://digital.nypl.org/mmpco/browse.cfm

Saw this on the ANE list ... the Center for International Studies
at the University of Chicago is sponsoring a lecture series on
the Middle East and putting the talks up on the web in .ram format.
Among the talks are a pair by McGuire Gibson and Fred Donner on
"Iraq Before Saddam Hussein":

http://internationalstudies.uchicago.edu/events.html

A pile of old maps of Japan have been put online ... definitely worth
a look:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/technology/circuits/10mapp.html
http://www.davidrumsey.com/japan/
================================================================
NEW ONLINE BOOKS
================================================================
Daniel Wilson, *The Lost Atlantis and Other Ethnographic Studies*:

http://www.canadiana.org/cgi-bin/ECO/mtq?doc=41556

*Aristotle on the Art of Poetry* (Bywater trans.):

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=6763
================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
Police have recovered some frescoes stolen from Pompeii, but they
are very damaged:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/896872.asp
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2541920,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/09/international/europe/09BRIE2.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/08/international/europe/08POMP.html
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-Italy-Stolen-Frescoes.html
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F09%2Fwfresc09.xml (nice pic)
================================================================
AT ABOUT.COM
================================================================
Ancient History Guide N.S. Gill has a piece on the age of emperors
at accession:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_ageataccession.htm

Archaeology Guide Kris Hirst continues her series on the history
of archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/cs/18th19thcentury/a/history2.htm
================================================================
BOOK REVIEWS
================================================================
T. Scanlon, *Eros and Greek Athletics*:

http://www.the-tls.co.uk/this_week/story.asp?story_id=25875
================================================================
PERFORMANCES
================================================================
Antony and Cleopatra (New York):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/arts/music/10ANTO.html

Women of Lockerbie:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/arts/theater/10WOME.html
================================================================
DON'T EAT THAT ELMER (A.K.A. CUM GRANO SALIS)
================================================================
Since the Pravda links from last week were so popular (8^)) ... here's one
I left out ... it includes ancient Egyptian accounts of UFO's:

http://english.pravda.ru/society/2003/04/05/45663.html

================================================================
EXHIBITIONS
================================================================
The Bull in the Mediterranean World: Myth and Legends (Athens):

http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=13008&t=04&m=A39&aa=1

Egypt Reborn: Art for Eternity (Brooklyn):

http://www.msnbc.com/news/898920.asp
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/11/arts/design/11GLUE.html

The Mysterious Bog People (Quebec):

http://www.dallasnews.com/travel/mexcc/stories/041303dntrabog.9b25.html

The Horse and Rider (Moscow):

http://www.tmtmetropolis.ru/metropolis/stories/2003/04/11/102.html

The Way of the Samurai:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/arts/07ARTS.html (nice pic upper right; scroll down for article)
================================================================
CLASSICIST'S CORNER
================================================================
This year's Runciman Lecture was on "What Have the Spartans Done
For Us?":

http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=13007&t=04&m=A40&aa=1

Perfess'r Harris:

http://www.realchangenews.org/issue/current/classics/classics_corner.html

Not sure what to read into this one ... the petition protesting
the closure of Classics at Queen's (Belfast) apparently ranks behind
a tuck shop robbery but ahead of a dog poop problem:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=396474

ClassCon (and ClassMisspelling) in a panel discussion on war
reparations:

http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/04/08/3e92b6e626fe0

Peter Jones:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-12&id=3000

Dot Wordsworth:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-12&id=2998

Akropolis News in Classical Greek:
http://www.akwn.net/

Radio Finland's Nuntii Latini
http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html

Radio Bremen's Der Monatsrückblick - auf Latein
http://www.radiobremen.de/online/latein/

U.S. Weather in Latin:
http://latin.wunderground.com/

================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
Leon Levy (Philanthropist):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/08/obituaries/08LEVY.html
http://www.forbes.com/2003/04/07/cz_rl_0407levy.html

George Cornell (Benefactor):

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-loccornell09040903apr09,0,2634172.story?coll=orl-news-headlines
================================================================
REPEATS
================================================================
Dancing Satyr:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/arts/02ARTS.html (scroll down)
http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=13008&t=04&m=A40&aa=1
================================================================
EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
charge!
================================================================
Useful Addresses
================================================================

Past issues of Explorator are available on the web at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Explorator/messages

To subscribe to Explorator, send a blank email message to:
mailto:Explorator-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

To unsubscribe, send a blank email message to:
mailto:Explorator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

To send a 'heads up' to the editor or contact him for other
reasons:
mailto:dmeadows@...

================================================================
Explorator is Copyright (c) 2003 David Meadows. Feel free to
distribute these listings via email to your pals, students,
teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. These
links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
by direct posting or snagging from a usenet group or some other
email source) without my express written permission. I think it
is only right that I be made aware of public fora which are
making use of content gathered in Explorator. Thanks!
================================================================


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9669 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] Explorator 5.50 (extra)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Meadows
To: explorator
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: [Explorator] Explorator 5.50 (extra)
Since I'm getting some flak about implications of the way I presented some articles in this a.m.'s Explorator, I think it is salutary (perhaps) to present some material about the American Council for Cultural Policy. Folks who are interested in the group may consult (n.b. I present these in no particular order and with no purpose other than information; some of the articles do seem contradictory):

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=10176
http://www.artforum.com/news/week=200315
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=10250
http://www.newageinfo.net/cgi-bin/editor/print.pl?article=2418
http://www.iht.com/articles/81293.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/01/sprj.irq.antiquities/

Some articles from Google's cache:

http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:BLkw293e3vwC:quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/db/Qus-iraq-antiquities.RUXE_CDO.html
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:coiXcXVYJkEC:www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030210/misc/10iraq.htm

I do note that the ACCP is signatory to ASOR's statement on Iraq:

http://www.asor.org/policy2.htm

--
David Meadows, dmeadows@... on 04/13/2003
Libertas inaestimabilis res est.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9670 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-13
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:

> Both the Rogator and Senator Sinicius Drusus expressed
> doubts about the usefulness of simulated elections as
> opposed to 'real fakes'

> I can't help feeling that if both the Rogator and the
> Senator have a similar assumption which I don't have,
> it is probably my fault rather than theirs, so I'd be
> grateful if they would point out the fourth goal of a
> simulation which would require voters to actually vote
> in a realistic way.

Salve,

I can't speak for Senator Drusus, but my concern about computer
simulations is their usefulness in dealing with humans. Computer
simulations work great in cases where there are physical laws that
are not mutable. Humans on the other hand are unpredictable and the
myraid of premutations to be considered makes for extreme difficulty
to write a program to consider all possibilities. Any given
simulation no matter how well thought out and complex the programming
will only respond to the input data in the way the program is written
to respond. I'm not against using computer simulation, but the only
way to test any system that deals with human interactions is to have
real human interactions with the system before being put into place.

A real live case of this that pops into my mind was the Three-Mile
Island accident back in the 70's. The whole accident could have been
averted quickly and easily except the control system layout that made
perfect sense to the design engineers made absolutely no sense to the
operators when faced with an emergency situation. The controls lay
out was designed with ease of assembly and maintnance in mind not
with panicked controllers in mind so the right switches and valves
were placed in an intuitive order.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9671 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Iraqi National Museum
My friend Drusus
At many a times we have seen eye to eye,however I must
disagree with you here. I feel that there was nothing
that could be done to stop such actions from
occurring. The city is in chaos and there may have
been no way to stop such things. The soldiers had
there hands full with trying to restore order and
dodging bullets.

However your request of us in NR to write and ask for
help in recovering the lost artifacts are right on the
button. They should cut off the roads and avenues,
that would allow the loss of such great finds.

My hope is that we shall recover them and be allowed
to send in archaeologist later to make finds of things
not yet seen.
Thank you Drusus for the e-mail address I shall take
up your battle cry.
Your friend
Brutis


--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Have just sent the following message to President
> Bush.
>
> Mr. President,
>
> I'm shocked and saddened that US Forces took no
> action
> to protect the Iraqi National Museum in Baghdad.
> Relics that represent the common hieratage of all
> Western nations have been looted in the greatest
> cultural loss since the Library of Alexanderia was
> lost in Ancient times. Our Failure to protect our
> common history has placed an indelible stain on the
> liberation of the Iraqi peoples.
>
> I'm begging you to order that the strictest possible
> export restrictions be placed on Iraq to prevent
> these
> priceless relics from being smuggled out of Iraq,
> and
> that you order our forces to lend all possible
> assistance to the directors of the Iraqi National
> Museum in recovering as much of the collection as
> possible.
>
> John Dobbins
>
> Quirites,
>
> I Urge each of you, espically those of you who hold
> American Citizenship, to contact the Whitehouse on
> behalf of the Iraqi National Museum before it's too
> late to recover at least part of the collection.
>
> President Bush's email address is
> president@...
>
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Senator
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms,
> and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9672 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: The Vindolanda Tablets Again
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the collection of Vindolanda tablets in the British
Museum:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compass/index.html

Unfortunately it isn't directly to the tablets. Once you reach the
index.html click on "Continue to COMPASS"; then on the main Compass
page and enter "Vindolanda tablets" in Quick Search, then click on "Find".

You will find photographs (with a very nice enlargement option) and
translations of seven tablets, as well as short essays on related
topics and brief bibliographies; there are also links to related
artifacts in the BM's collection.

Sorry about the extended instructions, but the BM's computer didn't
like reproduction of the direct link to the search results.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9673 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Just a simple question

Do you think we can find the items on that
black-market, or do we have to be there.
By the way where is this black-market,is there a
black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
is this line???
I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.

So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
really red, then what happens.
Just a simple question.

Tiberius Porticus Rex
The Greater


--- ames0826@... wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
> looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
> appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters of its type in history. The following
> points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by
> desperate people looking for objects to sell for
> food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by
> people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
> properly guarded at the time, as a former military
> man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
> the time, the limited resources available to deal
> with it, and the simple probability that protection
> for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It
> is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any
> culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
> as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction
> therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for
> what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
> obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can
> do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
> of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
> and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We
> did much the same thing at the close of World War
> Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
> Germany.
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9674 From: TiAnO Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Salvet omnes quirites, First let me please tell all the nation, that I very much enjoy the wellwritten stories of the races! However, I find it infuriating that this is allready the second time in the last 12 months, that my chariot was sabotaged and the culprit not found!!!!!!! This looks like a well organized crime against the factio praesina and its champion!! I am sure that our dominus factionis and my personal security service will not tolerate that my chariot and its driver are pulled into the dirt like that!! I am positive, that we will find the culprit and take him to the praetors before the next races begin! Valete bene, Tiberius Annaeus Otho (PS. This is a virtual reaction of a very angry owner of a twice sabotaged chariot and not the real feelings of myself!!!)


Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9675 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Ave,

According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local Mosque.

Respectfully,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq


Just a simple question

Do you think we can find the items on that
black-market, or do we have to be there.
By the way where is this black-market,is there a
black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
is this line???
I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.

So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
really red, then what happens.
Just a simple question.

Tiberius Porticus Rex
The Greater


--- ames0826@... wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
> looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
> appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters of its type in history. The following
> points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by
> desperate people looking for objects to sell for
> food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by
> people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
> properly guarded at the time, as a former military
> man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
> the time, the limited resources available to deal
> with it, and the simple probability that protection
> for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It
> is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any
> culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
> as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction
> therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for
> what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
> obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can
> do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
> of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
> and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We
> did much the same thing at the close of World War
> Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
> Germany.
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9676 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 50-1
----- Original Message -----
From: <oup@...>
To: <GROMEJ-L@...>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:44 AM
Subject: ToC for Greece and Rome 50-1


> Greece and Rome -- Table of Contents Alert
>
> A new issue of Greece and Rome
> has been made available:
>
> April 2003; Vol. 50, No. 1
>
> URL: http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Alcestis: Euripides to Ted Hughes
> L. P. E. Parker, pp. 1-30
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500001.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Economic Rationalism in Fourth-Century Bce Athens
> Paul Christesen, pp. 31-56
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500031.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why Socrates was not a Farmer: Xenophon's Oeconomicus as a Philosophical
Dialogue
> Gabriel Danzig, pp. 57-76
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500057.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wine, Women, and the Polis: Gender and the Formation of the City-State in
Archaic Rome
> Brigette Ford Russell, pp. 77-84
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500077.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Notes on Contributors p. 84
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Cornelius Nepos and the Biographical Tradition
> Frances Titchener, pp. 85-99
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500085.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> C. E. W. Steel: Cicero, Rhetoric, and Empire. Oxford Classical Monographs
> Reviewed by Liv Mariah Yarrow, pp. 100-101
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Greek Literature
> Stephen Halliwell, pp. 102-107
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Latin Literature
> D. E. Hill, pp. 107-113
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Greek History
> Hans Van Wees, pp. 113-117
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Roman History
> Barbara Levick, pp. 117-120
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Art and Archaeology
> Nigel Spivey, pp. 121-123
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Philosophy
> George Boys-Stones, pp. 123-132
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: General
> Christopher Burnand and Katherine Clarke, pp. 133-138
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Books Received pp. 139-146
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Index of Reviews pp. 147-149
>
> You are registered for the Oxford University Press journals' email
alerting
> service. Details on how to subscribe and unsubscribe follow below.
> You can also use the webinterface at
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9677 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus


On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters of its type in history. The following points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by desperate people looking for objects to sell for food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by people with underworld connections hoping to sell the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not properly guarded at the time, as a former military man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at the time, the limited resources available to deal with it, and the simple probability that protection for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any culture's collective memory, particularly a culture as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@...>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9678 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: CEREALIA MUNERA - FIRST DAY OF FIGHTS!
THE MOST EXPECTED MOMENT OF APRIL!







On the first day before the ides of april, the public gathered on the Circus built for the games (called on mockery ´the amphitheatre Fauste´). There was lots of expectation between the crowd specially after the controversy on the forum days before. The sun was gloriously on the sky, the temperature was high, sure 35ºC on shadows. It seems that Ceres and the Sun had a deal and the coming of Proserpina has brought lots of heat to the world.



On the honour tribune, the two plebeain aediles, Faustus and Scribonius, and the flaminen Cerealis Bardulus, who seated after ending the religious cerimonies. Next, the seats of the Senators and others Magistrates. The circus was specially filled with plebeians, as they worshipped on Cerealia to make vows to the plebeian goddess.



As called by the horns, the sixteen fighters rounded the arena and cried ´Te morituri salutant!´. The Aedile Faustus retributes the greeting crying:



- We, Plebeain Aediles, hereby open the gladiatorial combats on honour of Ceres, and may the Goddess find pleasure on them and bless the Res Publica! We salute the Magistrates, Priests and Tribunes of Nova Roma, and invite all fellow patricians to join the plebeians on joy and ledice.



But the public was smart to note: There was no rudus on the Aedile´s hand or on his servants...









COMBAT 1

MURMILLO X SAMNITE





The horn announces the first fight. What a surprise. These gladiators were sent by two giants, magistrates many times. Aeternus, a samnite of the former aedile T. Appolonius against Claw, the tiger of the east, a murmillo from Senator Audens.

They come from separate doors and stand one in front of another breathing courage and respect.

The horns announce the fight to start. Claw do as a murmillo, expected attack, on aggressive mode. Aeternus tries to block with the shield... IN VANE! Blood splits on the sands for the first time! Aeternus falls, a big rip on the brass cuirass on the chest.

- Come on! Come on! – Claw says like a tiger. – The novo romans desire blood to pacify the gods.

- Then the blood shall be the yours! – says slowly Aeternus coming up.

- Ah, dog, thou shalt fell... – the cunning of Aeternus has showed itself. He does a studied attack on Claw´s army. But the galerum wards it off. The defensive fighter Aeternus had no lucky at all.

Claw laughs. The sword descends. The shield of Aeternus is broken! Again, Aeternus tries a reaction, again he fells with dizziness.

Another strike of the Murmillo and Aeternus is on the sands spitting dark blood. Claw track on his neck and raise the hand to the public. Since Aeternus was not much successful on neither blow, the public has not mercy of the samnite.

- Blood, blood, blood! – cries the crowd! Thumbs down!

The murmillo has no doubt and pierced him with his heavy sword besides the nevil; so all Aeternus´ bowels gushed forth-open ground, and darkness clouded his eyes.

The public got frenzy acclaiming between shock and delight.

The caronte-masked servants pick up Aeternus remains and the ferrous Clay tiger-like exit the arena.

The Aedile Faustus upon the honour Tribune just smiles on seeing the faces of the assembly.

- This is just the first round. The winner covered with glory will be assigned to a next day to a new fight.



VICTORIA CLAW, the MURMILLO







COMBAT 2

THRACIAN X RETIARIUS



The next fight the Fates decided the sadness of G. Iulius Scaurus. Two of his fighters matched together. Borysthenes a thracian against Felicianus a Retirarius. They were supposed to be friends, but the arena claimed the blood of one.

The first strike was from Felicianus, fast movement and his trident made three holes on Borystenes right arm. But the thracian didnÂ’t give up. The dagger shined cutting the face of Felicianus, hurting him merciless.

- Damn you! – cried the retiarius

- Ah, ah, ah! Now taste these! – The dagger attacked the naked Felicianus Belly.

- Oh! – the crowd stands up of the chairs! The daggers flies! Got on the holes of Felicianus web, with a strong pull the retiarius took the blade meters away. But he hasn’t stop! Fast moving, the web instant after was around all the thracian body. A strong pull and Borysthenes was on the sands defenseless. The crowd divided itself. Some thumbs up, some thumbs down.

Felicianus decided for taking out the rival out of Scaurus´ favors, the trident went on Borysthenes chest, which life vanished to the shadows of deep Hades.

- FELICIANUS ATROX! – cried the crowd.



VICTORIA FELICIANUS, the retiarius









COMBAT 3

THRACIAN X ESSEDARIUS

Another two warriors come onto the arena. A thracian Leo Aquilonis, from G. Vipsanius Agrippa. And what a surprise, a veight and the unconfusing sound of a chariot. There is the first essedarius, Flavius Cheruscus, from Senator M. Arminius Maior.

Flavius rounds the thracian like a shark overseeing the victim. And he doesn’t wait the signal, he hurled his far shadowing spear; and on Leo´s left shoulder the spear point passed, and smote not his body; Leo had a pretty good evasion. The thracian caught the spear from the ground. The javelin sped not from his hand in vain, but smote the breast between the nipples, and thrust him from the chariot. The horse, confused, runs away.

Against all wounds, Flavius stand up, even almost trespassed, a miracle having survived. A small pillum was attached on his belt, and he throws it. Weak, the javelin has blocked by Leo´s shield. Again Cheruscus searched the belt for something, but his lungs were compromised. Blood on abundance was exiting the spear sited on his chest, he falls under the knees and fells prone, and his armor clanged upon him.

There was no time for mercy, death caught Flavius before.



VICTORIA LEO ACHILONIS, a THRACIAN





COMBAT 4

MURMILLO X SAMNITE



On the Arena now enter the murmillo Marcus Claudius Seneca. Some doubts arose upon the crowd, is he a roman citizen? A gladiator having the name of a philosopher? What a dishonor for the stoic school!

Another side, the saminte Marius the Libyan. His dark skin on the sun resembles the warriors of kings Jugurta and Juba, the ally Massinissa, the might of the sand warriors.

They approach themselves.

The first strike comes from the murmillo, very aggressive. The Libyan tries to block on the shield, but failed. But he doesn´t fail on the ground, cautiously studying the adversary, a blow from his campanian sword clangs against the helm of his adversary. Unfortunately, the long time studied attack was weak, and has not knocked the enemy

On the counterstrike, the murmillo make the Libyan blood split. The Libyan vacillates and again a weak movement was evaded by Seneca which sword again doesnÂ’t return in vain. A most violent stroke he delivered at the LibyanÂ’s helm, and all his head was broken in twain within the strong helm, and prone on the dead he fell, and round him was poured death that slayeth the spirit.

There was no time for the grace stroke. Seneca mocked:

- Carpe diem!

Pretty stoic this Seneca!



VICTORIA SENECA, a MURMILLO





COMBAT 5

ESSEDARIUS X RETIARIUS



What a surprise and delight for all men. A WOMAN on the games! Inscribed by Senator Patricia Cassia, most blessed by Queen Minerva, comes on the red sands Zenobia, a retiarius.

But... wait... The retiarius ´uniform´ is almost naked! Zenobia is shameless to show her breasts on the arena to the crowd. There is some murmur upon the public:

- Oh tempora, oh mores! Where is the pudicitia publica? The aediles donÂ’t see it?

- No, it is not a question of pudicitia. It is a secret weapon. While the adversary is diverted seeing her breasts, she strikes! Very intelligent...

- Humm... why complaining? From this distance of this low cost chairs, I canÂ’t see even the swords, much less the breasts!

- On the Seneca´s play THE TROJANS the captive women used to show their breasts when mourning.

- And the Amazons fighted on with a breast naked as well.

- One, not THE two.

- Oh, come on! This is not a tribunal to disqualify the precedents!

- But the breast means the nurture and sacred functions of...

- Shut up and stop complaining! The horn is calling the other fighter!

Another from Iulus Scaurus´s army: Zosimus, an essedarius, comes on a black biga, which golden hairness. Like the a God, Zozimus was not afraid to cry:

- This is the chariot of Pluto Chrysenios, who kidnapped Proserpina. And I come as the Lord of the Underground to take a virgin soul with me!

- So come on, daring god! – shouted Zenobia. – If I would be the swift daughter of Queen Ceres, your theatric play, essedarius, could frighten me. But I´m from the same substance of Atalanta, Pentessileia and Hypolita! Many men have discovered that a delicate woman hand brings faster Mors!

- So shall it be, bitch! – and Zosimus throws a brass spear. Zenobia was unlucky, having not evaded on time, the spear ripped up her beautiful belly. But the mortal point just ripped, not picking some organ, a ugly wound, but not mortal.

Zenobia cried a loud war cry and attacked with the trident. Zozimus make the horse run, but almost too late. The three sharp points passed one inch far his ear. The biga evaded the essedarius away, to another strike.

Zenobia waits on the middle of the arena breathing courage. Zozimus comes on his biga fast, another spear on hand. The retiaria throws the web!

Luck essedarius. The web enovelated the spear, being shunt on its path. Zozimus throw away the now useless spear and picked another on the car. Zenobia without her web again prepared to face him with the might trident.

The biga comes again. The retiaria lost again the strike, while swiftly he cast upon Zenobia with his shinning spear.

Not avoiding the black fate, Zenobia received the spear, for the gods had willed her death. Her the spear struck at the meeting of the head and neck, on the last joint of the spine, and cut in twain both the tendons. And her head, and mouth and nose, as she fell, reached the earth long before his legs and knees.

Zozimus stopped the run of his horses, descended on foot and came to spoil the dead:

- The beauty, so fugacious!

And on the public, between the mournings lastimating the courage of the dead woman, all charged as cruel the Fate that forbade them to give her thumbs up on retribution.

A citizen cried direct to the Honour Tribune.

- Come on, Aedile! Spare us of so great bloodlust! Haven´t you, so wise on these arts, foreknown this carnage?

Aedile Faustus arose angry form his honour seat of presiding magistrate.

- Was I the trainer? Am I the one who delivers mortal spears on the necks? Am I on the loom of the Destiny? Am I that decide what technique the warriors uses one against the other? Do you think I´m not shocked? Forsooth, this Ludi are being too bloody. But the rules are correct. Forebondings had I? May they so please the needs of our religio! What should I guess about, now? For me, all the thumbs should be up. But you see now what Fate desired. I´m as amazed as you. But I assure you, no warrior felt today without courage. Call the next two! Maybe now there will be a use for our merciful thumbs!



VICTORIA ZOZIMUS, a ESSEDARIUS



COMBAT 6

ESSEDARIUS X RETIARIUS

The next couple was exactly the same as before, a retirarius, Robur from the illustrious interpreter Tiberius Anneus Otho against a essedarius, Polidaocertes, from M. Tullius Philippicae.

But if the previous combat was violent, this combat was much more! Seems that Robur has learned much with the death of Zenobia. As Polidaocertes attacked running the biga against him, he threw the web againts the horse! The animal entrained its legs on the web and felt, turning down and crashing the biga!

Polidaocertes, little bit dizzy, crawled on the ground trying to pick the spears spreaded on the fall. Robur pierced the trident against the thigh of the enemy. Polidaocertes cried loud on pain, but blindly turned the arm with a spear and wounded Robur on the shoulder.

From the tribune, aedile Scribonius commented with his colleague:

- Hum... the retiarius could have killed him now... he wants to give our thumbs some use.

- At least one was hearing what I said! – said Faustus smiling.

The next movements was predictable. Polidaocertes in pain tried to stand up, while Robur just little pierced like the cooker moves the meat on a barbecue.

The essedarius finally felt on his on blood, claiming for the life.

- Exercise your mercy now, novo romans! – Cried the aedile.

The entire crowd gives thumbs down.

Robur gave a so strong strike that was difficult take out the trident from the dead chest.



VICTORIA ROMBUR, a RETIARIUS







COMBAT 7

ESSEDARIUS X MURMILLO

The eighth fight of the day was a essedarius, Ursus from P. Domitianus Artorius, against a murmillo, Vitulus, the last of Iulius Scaurus army.

Ursus came on the middle of the arena and left the chariot.

- I don’t need chariots! Just my spears are sufficient. I don´t want to seem unjust by having a biga and my courage to butcher this tiny murmillo. Let the biga out.

Vitullus ignored the boast. Instead, he preferred attacking.

The fight was body to body. Hard to narrate. The sword and the spear were very fast, attacking and defending, from the two sides, the blood was split on abundance. Two aggressive fighters desiring the eternal glory of the arena.

But finally there was a winner. Vitullus felt on the ground. Wounded as well, Ursus like a angry bear smited the brass point on his neck. The moment of the thumbs.

The public is very hard to satisfy, but not impossible.

THUMBS UP!

Vitullus blood dressed stand up and painly walked to the exit. Ursus left the arena under greetings



VICTORIA URSUS, a ESSEDARIUS





COMBAT 8

THRACIAN X ESSEDARIUS



The twilight was coming. The public on the chairs was tired. The carnage delights on the first moment, next started to be boring. The sands of the arena were already a blood red mud.

The final fight was between Maximinos, a Thracian (name of an Emperor!) sent on the arena by god-like Appius Arminius Claudianus, honor of Provincia Brasilia, apparitor of the Pax on the Provincial Temple of Concordia, and Carnifex Peritus, an essedarius sent by Quintus Salix Cantabricus, member of a gens that gives yearly so many good magistrates to the Res Publica.

The fight was hard; the two warriors have chosen the aggressive technique. The thracian sliced the flesh of the essedarius many times, and the charioter smited the thracian as well. Maximinus felt the spears of Carnifex, and Carnifex tasted the blade of the thracian. They bleed all body, from holes and rips.

But the gods has already chosen a winner. Thus Carnifex hurled his far-shadowing spear, and smote upon the circle of the shield of Maximinus, beneath the edge of the rim, where the bonze and iron ran thinnest round, and the bull-hide was thinnest thereon; and right through sped the essedarius ashen spear, and the shield cracked under it. But the spear didn’t stop, the point stopped just on Maximinos´ bowels.

The thracian felt on the knees, bleeding a lot. The essedarius jumped from the biga, and the turned the enemy on the ground. He was starting to raise the hand asking for the public decision when Maximino´s eyes gazed immobile the sky and his life was gone.



VICTORIA CARNIFEX, a ESSEDARIUS











The night has fallen upon the Amphitheater. The public stands up and goes to the exit, talking a lot about the results, the deploring cowardice and greeting the courage.













Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9679 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Salvete C. Sulla et omnes,

Once order is restored there should be severe penalties for anyone
trying to ship out or buy these artifacts. Word gets around quickly
when examples are made of these people.

Eg: Last year a Canadian tourist in Mexico picked up a few small
pieces of tile that had been lying on the ground, obviously weathered
off one of the Pre- Columbian structures. He tried taking them for a
souvineer but he was caught one way or another. He lingered in jail
for about 6 months there before our Consulate got wind of the
situation. They finally released him after his family paid a fine of
3500.00 US and they gave him the boot saying never to return. Try and
imagine what life would have been like for him had the objects had
been a few valuable statues! This incident hit many newspapers across
Canada. Now we know and I would avoid handling an ancient Mexican
artifact as much as I would a kilo of cocaine!

Hopefully similar laws and penalties will be implemented in Iraq when
order is restored. In my opinion the US and Britain could have done
little in stopping the looting of the Museum. As Brutis Porticus
said, the soldiers are still occupied in combat with pockets of
resistance.Also they are on very thin ice politically at the moment
in the eyes of the world and the onus is on them to continually prove
that the invasion was for the liberation. If they were to have fired
into a crowd of looters as they would in their own country after a
natural disaster the world press and opinion would have had a field
day denouncing their intentions.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of
the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local
Mosque.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: G.Porticus Brutis
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>
been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9680 From: M. Octavius Solaris Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Salvete omnes,

Way to go Albata! Four chariots in the semis!! Although of course I must admit that luck plays a vital role in these games, it seems that the Reds, despite of the amount of muscle they've tried to flex, have been given a good thrashing. And what is left of Praesina's former glory? Alas, not much, so it seems.

Anyhow, I'm really pleased to see Albata advance so well this year. Let's hope this trend continues.

Valete bene!
M. Octavius Solaris
DF Albata


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9681 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Salve,

You are correct. According to the 1954 Hague Convention Chapter 1,
Article 4, the failure to protect cultural treasures is a war
crime. However there is a catch.

The catch is that the 1954 Hague Convention only applies to those
nations who have ratified it and its subsequent protocols. Neither
Great Britain nor the United States are ratifiers to the 1954 Hague
Convention ( http://www.icomos.org/hague/hague.rat.html ) thusly its
provisions can not be enforced upon either nation.

However Australia is a ratifying nation of the 1954 Hague Convention
so Australian military personnel could in theory be charged under
that Conventions' articles.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9682 From: politicog Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections
--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> > I Would like to make a modest proposal. Before we
> enact any of these plans into law we should hold a
> mock election with historic Romans as the canidates.
> If there are any problems with the plan that our
> magistrates decide to put before the citizens we can
> find them during the mock elections in May or June
> instead of discovering them during the real
> elections
> at the end of the year.
>
> I Would like to see a ballot with at least two
> historic Romans for each open seat that we will vote
> on. That will give the voting a good test and
> hopefully keep us from having to discuss needed
> elections reforms again this time next year.
>

This sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. I
hope the magistrates will act on it and submit it to
the appropriate comitia if it requires their approval.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9683 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Ave Q. Lanius,
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq


Salvete C. Sulla et omnes,

Once order is restored there should be severe penalties for anyone
trying to ship out or buy these artifacts. Word gets around quickly
when examples are made of these people.

Sulla: I agree entirely. Very severe penalites should be imposed once a reasonable amount of order is restored in Baghdad. At this point I wonder how much of the city we actually do control. The last I heard was about 60-70%.
Eg: Last year a Canadian tourist in Mexico picked up a few small
pieces of tile that had been lying on the ground, obviously weathered
off one of the Pre- Columbian structures. He tried taking them for a
souvineer but he was caught one way or another. He lingered in jail
for about 6 months there before our Consulate got wind of the
situation. They finally released him after his family paid a fine of
3500.00 US and they gave him the boot saying never to return. Try and
imagine what life would have been like for him had the objects had
been a few valuable statues! This incident hit many newspapers across
Canada. Now we know and I would avoid handling an ancient Mexican
artifact as much as I would a kilo of cocaine!

Sulla: Very interesting, though I am not surprised. Clearly the market of antiquities is a very risky venture and one that, when found out, carries stiff penalities. I hope that the same penalties will apply to those Iraqi's who attempt to sell what they have looted.
Hopefully similar laws and penalties will be implemented in Iraq when
order is restored. In my opinion the US and Britain could have done
little in stopping the looting of the Museum. As Brutis Porticus
said, the soldiers are still occupied in combat with pockets of
resistance.

Sulla: I agree, there must be a judgement call in these situations...protecting themselves, trying to protect the civilians, preventing the looting of the hospital and other medical facilities probably carried more weight than a museum, but as more order is imposed our military can then protect other buildings and national treasures.

Also they are on very thin ice politically at the moment
in the eyes of the world and the onus is on them to continually prove
that the invasion was for the liberation.

Sulla: Yep, exactly.

If they were to have fired
into a crowd of looters as they would in their own country after a
natural disaster the world press and opinion would have had a field
day denouncing their intentions.

Sulla: I agree, it was a lose/lose situation no matter what they did in this respect.
Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of
the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local
Mosque.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: G.Porticus Brutis
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>
been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9684 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Try blackmarket.com.

Seriously, though, I'd be willling to bet that some of the treasures looted from the museum are, even as we speak, being offered clandestinely to some wealthy connesseurs (sp?) by people who are organized for this kind of covert and illegal activity. And that's the best definition of "black market" that I can come up with.

"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@...> wrote:

> Just a simple question
>
>Do you think we can find the items on that
>black-market, or do we have to be there.
>By the way where is this black-market,is there a
>black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
>is this line???nbsp;
>I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
>I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.
>
>So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
>blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
>really red, then what happens.
>Just a simple question.
>
>Tiberius Porticus Rex
>The Greater
>
>
>--- ames0826@... wrote:
>gt; I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
>gt; looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
>gt; appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
>gt; disasters of its type in history.nbsp; The following
>gt; points apply:
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; Some of the looting was certainly done by
>gt; desperate people looking for objects to sell for
>gt; food, etc.nbsp; And some of it was certainly done by
>gt; people with underworld connections hoping to sell
>gt; the works on the black market.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
>gt; properly guarded at the time, as a former military
>gt; man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
>gt; the time, the limited resources available to deal
>gt; with it, and the simple probability that protection
>gt; for the museum simply quot;fell through the cracks.quot;nbsp; It
>gt; is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; However, a museum is a vital part of any
>gt; culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
>gt; as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq.nbsp; This destruction
>gt; therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; Since our military is currently responsible for
>gt; what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
>gt; obligation to minimize the damage.nbsp; Two ways we can
>gt; do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
>gt; of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
>gt; and confiscation of such artifacts a priority.nbsp; We
>gt; did much the same thing at the close of World War
>gt; Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
>gt; Germany.
>gt;
>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9685 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL CONTRIBUTION - THE TEMPLE OF CERES ON THE AVENTINE
CERES LIBER LIBERAQUE, AEDES
A temple on the slope of the Aventine hill, near the west end of the circus Maximus. According to tradition there was a famine in Rome in 496 B.C., and the dictator L. Postumius, after consulting the Sibylline books, vowed a temple to Demeter, Dionysus, and Kore if they would bring abundance again to the city. The temple was built, and dedicated in 493 B.C. by the consul Sp. Cassius (Dionys. vi. 17, 94) to Ceres, Liber, and Libera, with whom the Greek deities were identified. Beloch (Rom. Gesch. 329) assigns it to the fourth century B.C.It was araeostyle, with columns of the Tuscan order, and the fastigium [p. 110] was decorated with statues of gilded bronze or terracotta of Etruscan workmanship (Vitr. iii. 3. 5). The walls of the cella were decorated with frescoes and reliefs by two Greek artists, Gorgasus and Damophilus,1 and there was a Greek inscription stating how much had been done by each (Plin. NH xxxv. 154; see Merlin 153-155). This temple, called by Cicero (Verr. iv. 108) pulcherrimum et Magnificentissimum, was enriched by many works of art, such as golden bowls and statues, from the fines levied by plebeian magistrates (Liv. x. 23. 13; xxvii. 6. 19, 36. 9; xxxiii. 25. 3). It contained a bronze statue of Ceres, said to have been the first made in Rome, which was paid for out of the confiscated property of Sp. Cassius (Liv. ii. 41. 10; Plin. NH xxxiv. 15); and a painting of Bacchus (and Ariadne ?) that was brought from Corinth by Mummius (Plin. NH xxxv. 24, 99; Strabo viii. 381; cf. Merlin 162). Twice it was struck by lightning (Liv. xxviii. 11. 4; App. BC i. 78), and twice it is mentioned in connection with prodigies (Liv. xl. 2. 2; xli. 28. 2). It was burned down in 31 B.C., restored by Augustus, and dedicated by Tiberius in 17 A.D. (Cass. Dio 1. 10; Tac. Ann. ii. 49; Merlin, 366- 367; CIL vi. 9969), and was standing in the fourth century (Not. Reg. XI). The site of the temple was near the west end of the circus on the Aventine side, but how far up the slope is not certain-perhaps near the junction of the modern Vicolo di S. Sabina and Via S. Maria in Cosmedin (Dionys. vi. 94; Liv. xl. 2. 1; DAP 2. vi. 238-239; Merlin 93-95, and literature cited there; BC 1914, 115), but no traces of it have been found.The worship of Ceres was essentially plebeian, and the political importance of this temple was very great. It was the headquarters of the plebeian aediles, the repository of their archives, and the treasury in which was placed the property of those who had been found guilty of assaulting plebeian magistrates (Dionys. vi. 89; x. 42 ; Liv. iii. 55. 7). Copies of senatus consulta were also deposited here after 449 B.C. (Liv. iii. 55. 13; Mommsen, Staatsr. ii. 476-477, 490). The temple possessed the right of asylum (Varr. ap. Non. 44: asylum Cereris), and was a centre of distribution of food to the poor. It was regularly called aedes, but delubrum once by Pliny (NH xxxv. 24), and in Greek Dêmêtreion (Strabo viii. 381), Dêmêtrion (Cass. Dio 1. 10), and Dêmêtros hieron (App. BC i. 78). In ordinary usage the official title was abbreviated to aedes Cereris (see Merlin, passim; HJ 115-117; RE iii. 1974-1975; xiii. 70-73; Gilb. ii. 242-250). For a sacerdos Cereris publica p.r.q. (i.e. a slave), see CIL i². 974=vi. 2182 =ILS 3347 (cf. vi. 2181 =32443=ILS 3343). Samuel Ball Platner, Thomas Ashby, A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome
Vale bene in pacem deorum,L. Arminius FaustusPlebeian Aedile


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9686 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
Salvete omnes

I wonder if the Christian religious beliefs of the new "barbarian
invader" contributed to the lack of protection of the cultural
treasures of humankind stored in the museums of the country being
invaded?...after all isn't the vast majority of the art in the museums
depictions of opposing religions to that of the invader, perhaps
unworthy of protection?. It seems the only protection was given to the
oil resources.

Valete omnes. Cum aestimatio. Lucius Calpurnius Piso
On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 07:19 AM, Michel Loos wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the
> national Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the
> worst disasters of its type in history.  The following points apply:
> >
> > *  Some of the looting was certainly done by desperate people
> looking for objects to sell for food, etc.  And some of it was
> certainly done by people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
> >
> > *  While it is unfortunate that the museum was not properly guarded
> at the time, as a former military man I can somewhat imagine the
> turmoil in Baghdad at the time, the limited resources available to
> deal with it, and the simple probability that protection for the
> museum simply "fell through the cracks."  It is spilled milk that no
> recriminations can unspill.
> >
> > *  However, a museum is a vital part of any culture's collective
> memory, particularly a culture as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq.  This
> destruction therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
> >
> > *  Since our military is currently responsible for what happens in
> Bachdad, we have a certain moral obligation to minimize the damage. 
> Two ways we can do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export of
> museum artifacts, and by making the recognition and confiscation of
> such artifacts a priority.  We did much the same thing at the close of
> World War Two, whan looted art objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > 
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@...>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9687 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD

Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not really
a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
"occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.

Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of the
US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training Saddam's
forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct opposition
to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
UN'.

Valete, Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
From: Michel Loos <loos@...>
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus


On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters
of its type in history.
<SNIP>
We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@...>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9688 From: politicog Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
--- curiobritannicus
<Marcusaemiliusscaurus@...> wrote:
> >
> The first round is over, quirites! We have nine
> qualifiers:
> Orionis Draco, (Veneta)
> B.S.D. Liber, (Albata)
> Fulminatora, (Russata)
> Damnator, (Albata)
> Velox, (Russata)
> Polycrates, (Praesina)
> Alea Iacta Est, (Albata)
> Pugio, (Praesina)
> Imperator Invictus. (Albata)
>
> Of these, there are 4 Albata, 2 Russata, 2 Praesina,
> and 1 Veneta.
> On the 15th, these nine drivers will race to find
> the four
> finalists! Don't miss it!
>
>
>

Congratulations to all the other finalists in the
races, especially to my Praesina teammate Marcus
Minucius Audens and his driver Pugio. I want to
express my appeciation to the narrator as well (sorry
I don't know what Roman name you use).
Also, please note that my Roman name has been
officially changed by the censors. I am no longer
Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Constantius. I am now called
Lucius Quintius Constantius. My gens is now Quintia,
instead of of Aenea Apollonia.
I regret that I did not notify the Aediles of the
name of my chariot. I have decided to call it
"Confluat".

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9689 From: Roger Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Election Procedures
I see that the censors have now officially approved of my change of
gens and name. But I don't have a button to get my voter code yet. :(

How long is it until the next run-off for Tribune of the Plebs?
Can I expect to be able to access my voter code before that time?


Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni
Nova Roman
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9690 From: jlasalle Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Ave Loos et al.

This anti-American rhetoric does get boring. I wonder how Mr. Loos would
have fared under Saddam's regime? A giant industrial plastic shredding
machine comes to mind.

How long must we suffer your pathetic grasping at anti-American straws?
America is the new power now. All the other countries represented in Nova
Roma had an empire at some point and time, and they participated in nothing
short of mass rape, plunder, and genocide.

At the end of WWII, we could have owned this planet, but we didn't. We gave
it back. We picked our enemies and friends alike off the ground and built
them back up. Some of them are our most fiercest competitors now. We're not
perfect, but we're dang close. And compared to how other modern countries
have acted in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries, we're clearly morally
superior. So, if citizens of a country we are liberating want to,
essentially, steal from themselves, I say have a great time.


Gaius Basilicatus Agricola


Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD

Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not
really
a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
"occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.

Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of
the
US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training
Saddam's
forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct
opposition
to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
UN'.

Valete, Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
From: Michel Loos <loos@...>
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus


On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
disasters
of its type in history.
<SNIP>
We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@...>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9691 From: Roger Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Officers of the Sodalitas Latinitas
[Note: I posted the original of this to the Latinitas group. I
decided to post it here also, if anyone here has any insight into the
answers to these questions. I would especially like the Senate to be
aware of the situation if the officers of the Sodalitas are not
functioning. If that is the case, I would be willing to assist in
reorganizing the leadership in any way that I may be of assistance.]



Three questions:


1. Is the emended lex fundamentalis contained in message 155,
posted on May 13, 2000 the organizing document for this Sodalis?

2. Have the tresviri passed any bylaws or procedures for the
accession of new members into the Sodalitas?

3. Are there currently any tresviri or are all the current
offices of the tresviri vacant?


I would appreciate answers to these questions and have decided to
transmit these questions to the Senate as well.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9692 From: a_cato2002 Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Canada Orientalis Taxes
Salvete: The below message is for citizens of Canada Orientalis
only, in case some only subscribe to the main list. My apologies to
everyone else.

Bene valete, A. T. Cato


Slavete Omnes: It is getting somewhat late in the tax season for
Nova Roma, and I apologize for not getting to this sooner.
However, I would like to ask that Our provincial citizens
please attend to paying the fees according to the schedule set out
below by our Consul, T. Labienus Fortunatus.
Our dues for the year come to $14.00 Canadian, or $9.44 U.S.
This is a remarkably low membership fee, (taxation) in
comparison to most clubs, oraganizations, or societys.
With money that Nova Roma earns, we have done such things as
sponser a Classics student who entered national competition in the
U.S., set up a free online Academy to study Nova Roma, Latin etc.,
help pay for gatherings and printed material for distribution etc.
We sent money to a Roman archeological site in Britain that was
starved for funds as a result of cutbacks in the English governments
support of archealogical digs. We will be supporting further
archeological sites in the future, and one that looks promising for
support from Nova Roma is restoration work at the Temple of Magna
Mater on the Palatine Hill in Rome itself. And 50% of the dues
collected is earmarked for use in the Province that it was collected
in.
Our membership fees are doing some good work. And also, those
who keep up their tax payments ensure that their ability to vote in
our election is not compromised.
So please, you can either send certified cheques or money
orders to me, or to Nova Roma itself. Either way....
Make sure that you include your full Nova Roma name to enure
that you receive credit for paying.

Send payment to Nova Roma at...

Nova Roma
P.O. Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090
U.S.A.

Or send it to me at.... 67 Woodland Ave.
St. Catharines,
Ontario
L2R 5A4

Remember to include you full Nova Roman name. If this
could be taken care of this week, then I owe you all my thanks.

Bene valete, Appius Tulliu Cato
Senator
Propraetor, Provincia Canada
Orientalis
Paterfamilias, Gens Tullia

Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:22:29 -0600
From: Fortunatus <labienus@...>
Subject: Edictum: Taxation

T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Quiritibus SPD

Pursuant to the senatusconsultum passed in November of last year, I
hereby establish the tax rates for MMDCCLVI according to the table
at
the end of this edictum.

I also request each provincial governor to copy this announcement to
their provincial lists, and each of Nova Roma's official Interpretes
to
translate this message into the language(s) for which they are
responsible.

Cives remitting their taxes in US dollars may send a check, money
order,
or equivalent form of payment made out to Nova Roma directly to:

Nova Roma
PO Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090

Other cives will need to purchase an international money order in US
dollars for the full amount of their taxes and send it to the
address
above. Note that individual checks in local currencies sent
directly to
the Nova Roma address will likely cost more to cash than they are
worth.

Hopefully, some provincial governors will choose to arrange a
central
point in their provinciae to which cives may remit their taxes so
that
the provincia will only need to make a single payment to the central
treasury. Cives are encouraged to contact their provincial
governor, if
any, to find out whether their province will be doing this.

Cives in Europe whose provincial governor has chosen not to act as a
collection point may contact my quaestor, Cn Octavius Noricus
(cn.octavius.noricus@...), in order to arrange payment if they
wish.

All cives capable of doing so may pay their taxes through the PayPal
service. There is a link on the Nova Roma Web site's main page for
this. It is the purple image alternately displaying "DONO DARE" and
"give to Nova Roma via PayPal" located beneath the main menu.

All cives should be sure to include the full Roman name of all cives
they are paying for with their remittance! PayPal provides a
comments
field when you use it, and you can provide the name(s) there. This
will
ensure that each civis who pays taxes will be properly enrolled in
the
Assidui.

Questions may be adressed to myself (labienus@...) or my
quaestor, Cn Octavius (cn.octavius.noricus@...). If you post
your
question to the main list, please Cc my address to ensure that I see
the
message.

The tax deadline is the last day of Aprilis. Taxes may be remitted
after that date, with a penalty of an extra 50%. Exempli gratia, a
civis who owes $12 would need to pay $18 after the deadline.

In the following table, countries within existing provinciae are
listed
first in order of provincia, followed by countries without
provinciae in
alphabetical order.

Tax Amount in Tax Amount
Country_________Provincia____________Local Currency____in USD
United States America Austrocc. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Austror. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Boreocc. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Mediocc. Sup. 12.00 USD 12.00
Argentina Argentina 12.00 ARS 3.81
Israel Asia Occidentalis 35.00 ILS 7.28
Turkey Asia Occidentalis 3700000.00 TRL 2.31
Japan Asia Orientalis 1100.00 JPY 9.31
Korea Asia Orientalis 7060.00 KRW 5.95
Malaysia Asia Orientalis 11.00 MYR 2.90
Philippines Asia Orientalis 72.00 PHP 1.32
Singapore Asia Orientalis 14.00 SGD 8.05
Australia Australia 14.00 AUD 8.48
Czech Republic Bohemia 140.00 CZK 4.75
Brazil Brasilia 9.00 BRL 2.51
United Kingdom Britannia 5.00 GBP 7.87
United States California 12.00 USD 12.00
Canada Canada Occidentalis 14.00 CAD 9.44
Canada Canada Orientalis 14.00 CAD 9.44
Belgium Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
France Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
Netherlands Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
Austria Germania 8.50 EUR 9.16
Germany Germania 8.50 EUR 9.16
Switzerland Germania 12.50 CHF 9.22
Spain Hispania 6.00 EUR 6.46
Italy Italia 7.50 EUR 8.08
United States Lacus Magni 12.00 USD 12.00
Portugal Lusitania 5.50 EUR 5.93
United States Mediatlantica 12.00 USD 12.00
Mexico Mexico 35.00 MXN 3.17
United States Nova Britannia 12.00 USD 12.00
Hungary Pannonia 920.00 HUF 4.08
Slovakia Pannonia 150.00 SKK 3.87
Russia Sarmatia 90.00 RUR 2.85
Ukraine Sarmatia 7.50 UAH 1.41
Denmark Thule 65.00 DKK 9.43
Finland Thule 8.00 EUR 8.62
Iceland Thule 630.00 ISK 8.12
Norway Thule 70.00 NOK 9.77
Sweden Thule 70.00 SEK 8.26
Poland Venedia 12.00 PLN 3.07

Albania 180.00 ALL 1.40
Andorra 6.00 EUR 6.46
Armenia 630.00 AMD 1.17
Bosnia-Herzegovina 1.00 BAM 0.55
Bulgaria 4.00 BGL 2.21
Chile 2500.00 CLP 3.32
China 14.00 CNY 1.69
Colombia 4800.00 COP 1.62
Costa Rica 970.00 CRC 2.52
Croatia 23.50 HRK 3.32
Greece 5.50 EUR 5.92
Honduras 14.00 HNL 0.82
Ireland 8.50 EUR 9.16
Macedonia 95.00 MKD 1.70
Morocco 15.00 MAD 1.51
New Zealand 12.00 NZD 6.70
Nicaragua 11.50 NIO 0.78
Nigeria 32.00 NGN 0.25
Romania 75000.00 ROL 2.27
South Africa 27.00 ZAR 3.32
Uruguay 44.00 UYU 1.56
Venezuela 3900.00 VEB 2.44
Vietnam 10798.20 VND 0.70
Yugoslavia 50.00 YUM 0.87

Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9693 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregines, greetings.

> Computer
> simulations work great in cases where there are
> physical laws that
> are not mutable. Humans on the other hand are
> unpredictable and the
> myraid of premutations to be considered makes for
> extreme difficulty
> to write a program to consider all possibilities.

I can appreciate this line of thinking, and I agree.
However, I should like to point that in this case the
unpredictability of human action is not very relevant.
In an elections, there are a limited number of
variables; in fact, for any given election there are,
apart from the actual procedure by which the results
are calculated, only three. One is number of people
who vote; the second is the number of candidates; the
third is the order of each voter's preference for each
candidate.

To put it another way round, for every human being
there are three questions: does he stand; does he
vote; how does he vote?

The first two can only be answered yes or no. A
computer can model either. There's nothing a human
being can do that wouldn't be either voting or not
voting; either running or not running. No room for
unpredictable behaviour there.

Then, each person who does vote will have a limited
number of ways in which they can vote. The precise
options will vary depending on the number of
candidates and how many he or she is allowed to vote
for. But again, there's nothing that he or she can do
which is completely unexpected. Voting for none of
them can be modelled; voting for all can be modelled,
voting for some and not others can be modelled.

A ballot-paper can only be filled out so many ways:
the number of possible combinations can be calculated.
If you have candidate A and candidate B you can only
choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
irrational, unmodellable behaviour.

So while I agree with your concern in general, I
cannot imagine anything that even the most irrational
person could do in an election other than vote or not
vote, stand or not stand, and fill in the ballot paper
in one or another of the ways which is possible. If I
have missed any opportunity for human unpredictability
to get in, I urge anyone who has spotted it to say so
before I make myself look even more absurd than I
already will!

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9694 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
G. Iulius Scaurus Lucio Equitio Cincinnato Auguri salutem dicit.

Salve, Luci Equiti Augur.

The National Museum of Iraq is located on the border between the
relatively upscale Karkh neighborhood and the slums of Saddam City.
There is no question that the overwhelming majority of the looters
were impoverished Shi'is from Saddam City (although there is some
evidence now appearing that professionals in the employ of foreign art
collectors may have had a role in some of the thefts and took care to
destroy museum records to impede any future legal action taken against
recipients of stolen antiquities on the black market). Some of the
sheer nihilistic destruction, e.g., the smashing of pottery shards
used for typological dating in the museum workshops and the defacing
of monumental sculptures too large and heavy to be removed easily from
the building, suggests that some were simply striking out at anything
that might have been a symbol of the Ba'athist regime. After all,
Iraq's internal propaganda has for years portrayed Saddam as the
embodiment of Mesopotamia's former glory in Sargon I, Hammurabi,
Nebuchadnezzar, etc. (that units of the Republican Guard bore those
names is not accidental).

The sense in which the United States bears responsibility is the fact
that the U.S. government assured American and international scholars,
whose expertise it sought to map sites of archaeological and cultural
importance before the war, that the National Museum of Iraq would be
protected against the looting which experts predicted would follow the
fall of Saddam and his government. Specifically, I know for a fact
(by virtue of knowing some of scholars involved) that Donald Rumsfeld
gave his personal assurance to a delegation of American scholars that
guards would be dispatched to the National Museum of Iraq the moment
coalition forces reached Baghdad. U.S. forces were in the vicinity of
the museum as early as last Monday (we know this from journalists who
were embedded with those forces). The museum was looted on Wednesday
and Thursday.

The U.S. is not a signatory to the 1954 Hague Convention and,
therefore, is not obligated to observe it. However, I do not think it
unreasonable to expect the responsible cabinet officer, speaking on
behalf of the U.S. government, to keep his word given to American
citizens that the museum would be protected. From the nonchalant
response of Rumsfeld to news of the looting I conclude that he is a
man without honour whose conduct has brought disgrace on the nation
whose armed forces he directs. As a Vietnam veteran I am personally
acquainted with officials of my government lying to the American
people (e.g., at a time when the government was assuring Americans and
the rest of the world that no U.S. troops were in Laos, I knew damned
well that we had troops in Laos because I helped draft their
operations orders in country). I had hoped things had changed, but
Secretary Rumsfeld has proven me wrong.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9695 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Salve Gaius Basilicatus Agricola et al

WELL SAID!


Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: "jlasalle" <jlasalle@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of
Iraq


> Ave Loos et al.
>
> This anti-American rhetoric does get boring. I wonder how Mr. Loos would
> have fared under Saddam's regime? A giant industrial plastic shredding
> machine comes to mind.
>
> How long must we suffer your pathetic grasping at anti-American straws?
> America is the new power now. All the other countries represented in Nova
> Roma had an empire at some point and time, and they participated in
nothing
> short of mass rape, plunder, and genocide.
>
> At the end of WWII, we could have owned this planet, but we didn't. We
gave
> it back. We picked our enemies and friends alike off the ground and built
> them back up. Some of them are our most fiercest competitors now. We're
not
> perfect, but we're dang close. And compared to how other modern countries
> have acted in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries, we're clearly morally
> superior. So, if citizens of a country we are liberating want to,
> essentially, steal from themselves, I say have a great time.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
> Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD
>
> Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not
> really
> a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
> forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender?
Or
> when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
> "occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
> States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
> removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.
>
> Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of
> the
> US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
> Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
> duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
> 'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training
> Saddam's
> forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct
> opposition
> to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
> UN'.
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
> From: Michel Loos <loos@...>
> Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the
national
> Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters
> of its type in history.
> <SNIP>
> We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted
art
> objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@...>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9696 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 15:20, Lucius Equitius escreveu:
> Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD
>
> Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not really
> a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
> forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
> when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
> "occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
> States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
> removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.
>

The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.

Manius Villius Limitanus


> Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of the
> US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
> Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
> duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
> 'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training Saddam's
> forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct opposition
> to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
> UN'.
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
> From: Michel Loos <loos@...>
> Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@... wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
> Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters
> of its type in history.
> <SNIP>
> We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
> objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@...>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9697 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Salve Cordus,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A ballot-paper can only be filled out so many ways:
> the number of possible combinations can be calculated.
> If you have candidate A and candidate B you can only
> choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> irrational, unmodellable behaviour.

You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9698 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:

> The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Salve,

Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
form of civil insurrection.

Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9699 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: NR website
Ave,

Whats up with the NR website...No page is coming up. Can someone please fix this?

Vale,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9700 From: Daniel O. Villanueva Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Bienvenida Drusilla Quinta Galla
Salve optime novissima civis argentina Drusilla Quinta Galla .

Maximo Gaudio te accipio. Cum te nunc viginti sex civis argentini in provincia Argentina sumus. Vivant Novam Romam et provinciam Argentinam!.
Have my warmest welcome. With you now we are now 26 citizens in provincia Argentina. Long live Nova Roma and provincia Argentina!!.
Quiero darte la más cálida bienvenida!. Contigo ya somos 26 ciudadanos en la provincia Argentina. Vivan Nova Roma y la provincia Argentina.

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

Propraetor provinciæ Argentinæ
Sitio web provincia Argentina : http://argentina.novaroma.org
Provincial web site : http://argentina.novaroma.org
Lista provincial oficial : http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
Official provincial website : http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9701 From: Michel Loos Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
>
> > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Salve,
>
> Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> form of civil insurrection.
>

I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
for references.

Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
humankind based.

> Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
>

Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
imperialistic and religious wars.

For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus


--
Michel Loos <loos@...>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9702 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: (no subject)
Salve

Has anybody read Cicero by Anthony Everitt I have read a couple of reviews and wanted to get a few more before I buy it.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9703 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
Salve

The Iraqis may have been provided the opportunity to looting by the US
destruction of the regime ,but the Iraqis and only the Iraqis are
responsible for the looting. God willing some of the artifacts can be
recovered.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Loos" <loos@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof
Iraq


> Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> >
> > > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> > >
> > > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> > to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> > International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> > museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> > to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> > signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> > was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> > form of civil insurrection.
> >
>
> I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
> for references.
>
> Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
> humankind based.
>
> > Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> > something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> > to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> > possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> > United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> > China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> > control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> > even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> > the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> > slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> > and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> > looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
> >
>
> Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
> The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
> imperialistic and religious wars.
>
> For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
> archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@...>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9704 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-14
Subject: Re: NR website
Denial of service attack by an angry spammer.

I'm trying to arrange for a router block now.

More details later.


> Ave,
>
> Whats up with the NR website...No page is coming up. Can someone please fix this?
>

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9705 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
Ave!
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq


Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
>
> > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Salve,
>
> Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> form of civil insurrection.
>

I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
for references.

Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
humankind based.
Sulla: All laws are nation-based when it comes to International law. There is no such thing as "Human Kind Law."


> Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
>

Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
imperialistic and religious wars.

Sulla: Well this war does not fall into any of those categories.

For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.

Sulla: Of course your comment was not an anti-US position because this war is not a war of imperalism nor a religious war. I

Vale,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9706 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
Ave Crys et Omnes,

Before I begin, I really wanted to hold off answering these questions as our current Consuls should be the individuals who respond. However, Crys and I spoke on AIM and she wanted me to publish my comments in this email. So, I have tried to answer these questions to the best of my ability. With that, any corrections will be appreciated:
----- Original Message -----
From: CAS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes


Salvete,

I am ready to pay my taxes, but have a couple of questions.

1. May I pay for more than one year at a time (say 2 or 3 years)?

Sulla: I do not see why not, however, if there is a change in the tax rate in the coming year(s) this might get very ugly. And, so far every year we have tweaked the tax law, so at this juncture I would advise not to pay multiple years in advance.

2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?

Sulla: Yes, the Consuls usually send a mass email to each citizen individually as well as an email message to the NR list and the annouce list as well.

3. Do I pay the same for my children as for myself (They are 4 and 6
years now)?

Sulla: You could. However, IMHO, minors really do not need to pay taxes because they do not get any tangible benefit (they cannot vote nor run and hold office). And it is primarily for these reasons we pay our taxes, this of course does not discount the motivation to pay for taxes simply to help NR achieve her goals.

4. Do I pay the same rate for the minors as for myself?

Sulla: There is no reduction for the taxes of minors. The only "reduction" would be where you lived, ie. adjusting for international currencies.

I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
website.

Sulla: Thats because you signed back up on the ML late, Crys! <g>

I also need to have my email address officially changed.

Sulla: Email the Censors your new info, they can update it. Or you can go to the Album Gentium, sign in and change your own info.

Hope this helps,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Pax,
SSAtia



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9707 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave Crys et Omnes,
>
> Before I begin, I really wanted to hold off answering these
questions as
> our current Consuls should be the individuals who respond.

SSA/Crys;

I should live so long LOL!!

> Sulla: I do not see why not, however, if there is a change in
the tax
> rate in the coming year(s) this might get very ugly. And, so far
every
> year we have tweaked the tax law, so at this juncture I would
advise not
> to pay multiple years in advance.
>

hehehehehehehe .. Shut up Atia <G>.


> 2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?
>
> Sulla: Yes, the Consuls usually send a mass email to each citizen
> individually as well as an email message to the NR list and the
annouce
> list as well.
>

Mental note : Read NR Digest occassionally ......

>
> Sulla: You could. However, IMHO, minors really do not need to
pay
> taxes because they do not get any tangible benefit (they cannot
vote nor
> run and hold office). And it is primarily for these reasons we pay
our
> taxes, this of course does not discount the motivation to pay for
taxes
> simply to help NR achieve her goals.
>

The Chicagoain in me replies; I could vote for the children <G> And
those
of you who have met my daughter know she'd love nothing more than to
be
Dictator For Life!!!!!!!


>
> I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
> website.
>
> Sulla: Thats because you signed back up on the ML late, Crys! <g>
>


You know what the ML does to my nerves, Sulla darling!! <VBG>


> I also need to have my email address officially changed.
>
> Sulla: Email the Censors your new info, they can update it. Or
you
> can go to the Album Gentium, sign in and change your own info.
>

If I change it int he album will it be changed everywhere? Like the
Priesthoods page???? Never mind. I'll do both and hope for the best.


Pax,
SSA

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9708 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, Tiberi Galeri.

I read it and found it very superficial, with more errors than I would
have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from Cambridge (but Everitt
was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent most of his
professional life as an "art consultant"). The breathless "Romans are
so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was probably dictated by
the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_ colosseum on the
dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but Everitt sees Cicero as
the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which obscures rather
more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review in the NYT (Aug.
25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that there is nothing
new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable about the rate of
error than I would have been. A much better introduction to Cicero
can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and Political Thought_
(Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges Cicero's
philosophical work. The authoritative biography of Cicero in English
is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the Ascending the Years_
(Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_ (Yale, 1991). I
confess I wonder whether posterity would have thought so highly of
Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival of so many of his
works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The writings of most
of his contemporaries did not survive and, where they do, tend to
reflect rather less favourably on him than his own do.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9709 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Salve Gaius Iulius,
I Don't think the survival of so many works by Cicero
was an accident. He was a master of the Latin
Language, and his style became the model for composing
Latin Texts and Latin Rhetoric. His works were
preserved not for thier content, but because his use
of the Latin Language was used as a teaching aid for
centuries.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen

--- Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem
> dicit.
>
> Salve, Tiberi Galeri.
>
> I read it and found it very superficial, with more
> errors than I would
> have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from
> Cambridge (but Everitt
> was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent
> most of his
> professional life as an "art consultant"). The
> breathless "Romans are
> so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was
> probably dictated by
> the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_
> colosseum on the
> dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but
> Everitt sees Cicero as
> the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which
> obscures rather
> more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review
> in the NYT (Aug.
> 25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that
> there is nothing
> new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable
> about the rate of
> error than I would have been. A much better
> introduction to Cicero
> can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and
> Political Thought_
> (Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges
> Cicero's
> philosophical work. The authoritative biography of
> Cicero in English
> is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the
> Ascending the Years_
> (Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_
> (Yale, 1991). I
> confess I wonder whether posterity would have
> thought so highly of
> Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival
> of so many of his
> works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The
> writings of most
> of his contemporaries did not survive and, where
> they do, tend to
> reflect rather less favourably on him than his own
> do.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9710 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Chariot Races First Round!
Salvete Aediles,

congratulations for your Ludi Circenses, very exciting histories.
However I sended you the subscription of my chariot and I don't see
it in the results. Are there problems? Have you received my mail?

Chariot: Italica
driver: myself
factio: russata

Thank you again for your Ludi and good luck!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "curiobritannicus"
<Marcusaemiliusscaurus@h...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The first round of the chariot races are here! 21 Chariots are
> preparing to compete for the honour and glory of their factions
and
> patrons! However, not all the factions are out in equal force.
The
> Reds have massed many chariots, while the Blues, perhaps
disheartened
> with previous performances, have entered only two! Without
further
> ado.... The races!
>
> *******************Race 1************
>
> Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> factio: Albata
> driver: Carolus Daemonicus
> chariot: B.S.D. Liber
> q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
> fin tactic: pass closely the spina
>
> Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
> Factio: Veneta
> Chariot: Orionis Draco
> Driver: Equus Magnus
> Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
> Finals Strategy: (2)
>
> Name: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Factio: Russata
> Chariot: Proeliator
> Driver: Gustavus Barbarus
> Tactics for quarters and semi-finals: 2) To pass the curves
closely
> the "spina" of the circus
> Tactics for the final: 6) To hurry in the straight lines
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Cethinus Aspis
> Chariot: Raptor Cruentus
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
> Tactics for the final: To hurry in the last laps
>
> Quite a lineup for this first race, with one chariot from each
factio
> competing. We have the veteran Carolus Daemonus, driving the
chariot
> B.S.D. Liber for his patron Marcus Octavius Germanicus and for the
> honour of factio Albata. Titus Licinius Crassus has hired the
fiery
> Equus Magnus to drive his chariot Orionis Draco, for Veneta.
Another
> chariot that we've seen before, Proeliator, and its illustrous
patron
> Caeso Favius Quintilianus. And finally, driving for the greens of
> Praesina, Raptor Cruentus, bought by Iulius Scaurus. But wait!
The
> Aedile, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, has shaken the white
> flag allowing the competitors to go! And so they do! Proeliator
> immediately takes the first corner as sharply as possible - By
Ceres,
> that was close! Proeliator's career nearly came to a halt there.
> However, the risk has paid off - Proeliator is slightly ahead of
the
> others. Just behind, Raptor Cruentus is catching up on the
> straights, while Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber are keeping a
steady
> pace behind. This pace is kept for another lap, but then Raptor
> Cruentus makes its move! Only a small distance behind Proeliator,
> Cethenus Aspinus uses his whip to lash the poor horses of
> Proeliator! Distracted, they rear up, and Cethinus Aspinus is too
> busy watching Proeliator to noticed he's about to crash!
Proeliator
> and Raptor Cruentis are hopelessly entangled, and B.S.D. Liber and
> Orionis Draco cruise smoothly past them. Not wanting to take any
> risks, they both take it fairly easy - no point taking risks with
> only two left in the race!
>
> 1st: Accident!
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Orionis Draco
> 4th B.S.D. Liber
>
> Qualify for the semi-finals: Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber.
>
> **************************Race 2*********************
>
> Name: Sextus Arminius Remus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Remus
> Chariot: Fulminatora
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To support a constant pace
> Tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals
>
> Name: Tiberius Annaeus Otho
> Factio: Praesina
> Chariot: Basilea
> Driver: Septimus Raurax
> Tactics for the quarters/semis: 6 (Hurry in straight lines)
> Tactics for the finals: 1 (Hurry in the last laps)
>
> Name: Marcus Octavius Solaris
> Factio: Albata
> Driver: Damnator
> Tactics in Quarters/Semis: lash the rivals (4)
> Tactics in Final: push the rivals to the wall of the circus (5)
>
> Name:Gallus Minucius Iovinus
> Factio: Veneta
> Driver: Pontius Falx
> Chariot: Ossifragus (the sea eagle)
> Tactics for qual and semi: 2
> Tactics for final:6
>
> As the last of the wreckage from the previous race's crash is
cleared
> away, I can see that we once again have several veterans taking
the
> field. For Veneta, we have the renowned Ossifragus. For Albata,
we
> have Damnator, the chariot of Marcus Octavius Solaris. And
bearing
> the honour of Praesina is Basilea, the chariot of Tiberius Anneus
> Otho. Also racing is Fulminatora, hoping to carry a red into the
> semi-finals. The Aedile gives the signal for the race to start,
and
> quickly the chariots race off. As they do, a flag springs up from
> the audience, saying, "Come on Veneta! We've got the organiser on
> our side this time!" Yes, I can see Curio is definitely grinning
at
> that - he is indeed a supporter of Veneta. However, his face
turns
> to dismay as he gazes at the race track. Ossifragus has been
trying
> the same trick that Proeliator used to good advantage, but the
> chariot is skidding slightly, meaning that he's lost time on the
> others, rather than gained it. Meanwhile, Damnator has been
trying
> to catch up with the leading pair, Basilea, and Fulminatora, but
> they're both staying clear of the famous Damnator and his cruel
> whip. Basilea and Fulminatora are engaged in a deadly battle for
> 1st, but neither can gain an advantage. Meanwhile, Ossifragus
> finally gets the hang of passing close to the spina of the circus,
> and draws up beside Damnator. However, the infuriated Damnator
whips
> the horses drawing Ossifragus. They manage to stay on track, but
the
> shock causes them to fall behind once more. This done, Damnator
> concentrates on trying to catch up with the others. It looks like
> there is too little time, but then, catching everyone unawares,
> Basilea's wheel shakes a bit, causing the chariot to go awry, and
> then the wheel falls off completely! The enraged Praesina fans
> shout "Sabotage! Sabotaaaaaaaage!!" And indeed this is what it
looks
> like, since Basilea is a well-made chariot. But no one know which
of
> the three others committed the crime! With Basilea out of the
race,
> Fulminatora easily takes first place, and Damnator takes second.
>
> 1st: Fulminatora
> 2nd: Sabotage!
> 3rd: Damnator
> 4th: Ossifragus
>
> Qualify for semi-final: Fulminatora and Damnator
>
> *******************************Race 3*************************
>
> Name: Lucius Arminius Metellus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Aegeus
> Chariot: Metella Maxima
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To hurry in the straight
lines
> Tactics for the Finals: hurry in the last laps
>
> Name: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> Factio: Albata
> Chariot: Impactus Infrenatus
> Driver: Concordius
> Tactics in Quarters/Semis: 5
> Tactics in Finals: 6
>
> Name:Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Constantius
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Polycrates.
> Tactics for quarter/semi finals: To support a
> constant pace.
> Tactics for finals: Push rivals to wall of the
> circus.
>
> Name:Titus Arminius Volusius
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Lepidus
> Chariot: Velox
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To lash the rivals
> His/her tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals
>
> The last of the Venetas has raced, and now there are two Russatas
> alongside the Praesina and Albata! The Albata fans will be glad
to
> see that the experienced Impactus Infrenatus is taking the field,
but
> Polycrates of the greens, and Velox and Metella Maxima of Russata
> will be trying to stop him winning. There goes the signal, and
there
> go the chariots! Metella Maxima and Velox both get an early
> advantage, and vie with each other for position. Polycrates keeps
a
> fairly constant speed, waiting for the best time to overtake the
> others. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus is hoping to push one of
his
> rivals out of the way. However, the driver, Concordius, is so
busy
> looking for such opportunities that he falls behind the other
> chariots. Velox, noticing Metella Maxima pull ahead, whips one of
> its horses. However, the tough creature takes no notice, and
> continues racing. Metella Maxima moves over to the side a little,
> hoping to avoid the whip of Velox. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus
> pulls up beside Polycrates, who, surprisingly, voluntarily pulls
back
> rather than be pushes into the sides of the circus! Polycrates
> continues to look for his opportunity, but is now in fourth.
> Impactus Infrenatus, continuing this wild dash, accelerates
between
> Metella Maxima and Velox. However, it is now that Concordius
makes
> his mistake, while wedged between two other chariots. He realises
> that being between two Russatas is not good, so he moves the
chariot
> right, pushing into Metella Maxima. The horses, not used to this
new
> kind of tactic, are unable to stop the inevitable collision with
the
> wall. With Metella Maxima out, Velox uses Impactus Infrenatus'
> instability to pull ahead, and Polycrates also sees his chance.
> After having kept a constant pace throughout, he pushes forward,
> passing Impactus Infrenatus at the last moment!
>
> 1st: Velox
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Polycrates
> 4th: Impactus Infrenatus
>
> Qualify for Semi-final: Velox and Polycrates
>
> *****************************Race 4**********************
>
> Name: Titus Labienus Fortunatus
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Pelops Celer
> Chariot: Volatilis
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: Hurry in the straight lines.
> Tactics for the finals: Hurry in the straight lines.
>
> Name: M.Tullius Philippicae
> Factio: Albata
> Chariot name: Alea Iacta Est
> The name of your driver: Aurelius
> Tactics for the quarter-finals: To hurry in the straight lines
> Tactics for the semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
> circus
> Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines
>
> Name: Spurius Arminius Carus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Carinus
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To support a constant pace
> Tactics for the finals: To support a constant pace
>
> In this the fourth race, there is one of every factio except
Veneta
> taking part. For Russata, Carinus is racing. For Albata, the
> symbolic Alea Iacta Est. And for Praesina, the veteran Volatilis,
> under the patronship of Titus Labienus Fortunatus. Perhaps
> Fortunatus is hoping that his name will apply to his chariot, yes?
> And it looks like it might. Volatilis gets a good start, with
Alea
> Iacta Est just behind. Tailing them is Carinus, hoping for a good
> opportunity to overtake. This race all seems to be about
position,
> and each chariot is doing their best to gain every valuable second
> over the opponent. Alea Iacta Est gains a little ground on
> Volatilis, with Carinus continuing to dog the tracks of Alea Iacta
> Est. But now Aurelius, driver of Alea Iacta Est, manages a
brilliant
> manoeuvre. He whips the horses into a frenzy, making them push
past
> Volatilis, and then swings his chariot into Volatilis' path,
forcing
> Pelops Celer to stop. This done, he accelerates once more.
Although
> Pelops Celer gets the horses moving again expertly, the delay is
too
> much, and Carinus also overtakes. Alea Iacta Est, however, is
> unbeatable, and takes first place comfortably.
>
> 1st: Alea Iacta Est
> 2nd: Carinus
> 3rd: Volatilis
>
> Qualifies for Semi-final: Alea Iacta Est
>
> ************************Race 5
>
> Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Pugio
> Name of Chariot:Green Flash
> Tactics: Hurry in last laps
>
> Name: L. Arminius Cotta
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Oros Cottiae
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the
wall
> of the circus,
> Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus,
>
> Name: Kaeso Arminius Cato
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Drausius
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
> Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines
>
> There are two Russatas in this race, leaving the Praesina, Pugio,
> feeling distinctly uneasy. Even worse, he starts between Oros
> Cottiae and Drausius - what's the phrase? A rock and... Oh!
There
> they go! None of them seems able to get an advantage, and they're
> racing in a uniform line. Perhaps the drivers were once
> legionaries. Drausius, frustrated with his lack of immediate
> success, starts to bring his whip to bear in Pugio, who controls
his
> team of horses, and stops the whip from having any large effect.
> They continue racing, with Oros Cottiae simply awaiting the right
> moment to strike. Halfway through the race, he decides that
moment
> is now. He moves inward, hoping to knock Pugio into Drausius.
> However, Pugio, with amazing reflexes, professionally accelerates
> away, letting Oros Cottiae crash into Drausius. Amazing! The two
> Russatas have crashed and brought each other out of the race!
Pugio
> raises his hand, acknowledging the applause, and easily glides
into
> first place.
>
> 1st: Pugio
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Accident!
>
> Qualifies for Semi-final: Pugio
>
> **************************Race 6************************
>
> Name: Philippus Arminius Remus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Remus Viliamus
> Chariot: Unarmed and dangerous
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the
wall
> of the circus
> Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus
>
> Name: Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Italicus
> Chariot name: Essedum
> Your tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals,
> Your tactics for the finals: To hurry in the last laps,
>
> Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
> Factio: Albata
> Driver: Draco Borealis
> Chariot: Imperator Invictus
> Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)
>
> This last race should have a Russata, Unarmed and Dangerous, a
> Praesina, Essedum, and an Albata, Imperator Invictus, driving.
> However, earlier today, a man was found trying to damage Essedum.
> After being told that he would be free to go if he told us of his
> employer, it turned out that he was working for Philippus Arminius
> Remus, the patron of Unarmed and Dangerous. Sir, we have decided
to
> take no further action, but you have been disqualified from this
> race! Please do not consider using such dishonourable tactics in
the
> future! Consequently, this race is between only two chariots, a
> green and white. And there they go! Immediately, Essedum starts
to
> lash the horses of Imperator Invictus. Angered, Draco Borealis,
> driver of Imperator Invictus, responds by forcing his way closer
to
> Essedum, trying to push Essedum against the walls of the circus.
> However, Essedum refuses to give ground, and they continue to make
> their way round the track, both of them continuing to violently
> attempt to put their opponent out of the race! At one point,
> Italicus, Essedum's driver, lashes Draco Borealis on the hip!
> However, the endurant Draco Borealis just ignores the pain, and
slams
> swiftly into Essedum. Caught unawares, Italicus falls sideways,
out
> of the chariot! Luckily, apart from some minor bruises, Italicus
> seems to be fine. Without control, Essedum soon falls behind
> Imperator Invictus, who takes first place!
>
> 1st: Imperator Invictus
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Convicted of sabotage
>
> Qualifies for semi-final: Imperator Invictus.
>
> The first round is over, quirites! We have nine qualifiers:
> Orionis Draco, (Veneta)
> B.S.D. Liber, (Albata)
> Fulminatora, (Russata)
> Damnator, (Albata)
> Velox, (Russata)
> Polycrates, (Praesina)
> Alea Iacta Est, (Albata)
> Pugio, (Praesina)
> Imperator Invictus. (Albata)
>
> Of these, there are 4 Albata, 2 Russata, 2 Praesina, and 1 Veneta.
> On the 15th, these nine drivers will race to find the four
> finalists! Don't miss it!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9711 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Election Procedures
SAlve Lucius Quintius Constantius!
> How long is it until the next run-off for Tribune of the Plebs?
The voting won't begin for about another 2 weeks. don't worry, we'll remind
you when it's time to vote :-)

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribune






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9712 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
G. Iulius Scaurus L. Sicinio Druso salutem dicit.

Salve, L. Sicini.

I think the transmission history of Cicero's works suggests that
Cicero was not the kind of exemplar/paradigm in antiquity that some
see him as today. Cicero's writings were not the paradigm of Latin
composition they have become in Western Europe and America in the 18th
and 19th centuries. That fact that so many of Cicero works exist only
in unique (or a bare handful of) manuscripts means that late classical
antiquity and medieval Europe were often only cursorily familiar with
him and is powerful evidence that Cicero was not widely read among or
use as a paradigm of prose composition (indeed, the principal way in
which Cicero's speeches and letters spread across Europe was in
florilegia, epitomes with brief quotes from several authors on the
same general subject -- the medievals mainly knew Cicero in bits and
pieces) ; Quintillian was rather more extensively copied than Cicero
and was the rhetorical example put before late antique and medieval
students. This is not to say that Cicero was without serious
influence in the Middle Ages, but ratherto put him in a context which
less resonates
as the master of literary style and m ore as _a_ master of rhetoirc
among others (those passages in Cicero which appeared to give comfort
to the Christian world-view were also widely circulated as a claasical
endorsement of the Christian world-view). During the Italian
renaissance Cicero increased in popularity and the principal
attraction to Renaissance Latinists was not his style, but his ability
to safely swim the potentially fatal
waters of Roman politics for most of his life. However, the real
emphasis on Cicero as a literary-stylistic, rhetorical, and
political-philosophic aradigm began only in the 18th and 19th
Centuries. He was a particular favourite of Whigs who saw in his
political philosophy an adumbration of the "separation of powers" and
"balanced government" which gave them an intellectual weapon against
those who insisted on the primacy of the King and his confidants.
Cicero's personal and political philosophy also found
resonances among the founding fathers of the American revolution.
Frankly that view of Cicero completely ignores Cicero's frantic
efforts to win acceptance by the Boni and the smary means to which he
sometimes stooped to advance his career. It was out of these changing
attitudes toward that Cicero was introduced in great measure to the
public school (in the British sense) curriculum. It was in the
nineteenth century in Europe and America that Cicero became the
standard against which to judge Latin composition. Mind you, I've
read a great deal of Cicero, and there are times when his prose is
among the most beautiful ever written, but there are also times when
it plodes under the weight of an entirely unncessary,
self-aggrandizing pedantry. But the idea of Cicero as the principal
paradigm of Latin prose composition is entirely of 18th- and
19th-century educatorrs and their political prejudices.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9713 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Away
Sp. Postumius Quiritibus Sal.

Salvete,

As a small note, I, Sp. Postumius, will be away on vacation for the duration
of the month. I'll still be able to be contacted, but my replies may not
come immedeately.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

--
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Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9714 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
Homeric Hymns (ed. Hugh G. Evelyn-White)
To Ceres
I begin to sing of rich-haired Ceres, awful goddess --of her and her trim-ankled daughter whom Pluto Aidoneus rapt away, given to him by all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer.
Apart from Ceres, lady of the golden sword and glorious fruits, she was playing with the deep-bosomed daughters of Oceanus and gathering flowers over a soft meadow, roses and crocuses and beautiful violets, irises also and hyacinths and the narcissus, which Earth made to grow at the will of Jupiter and to please the Host of Many, to be a snare for the bloom-like girl -- a marvellous, radiant flower. It was a thing of awe whether for deathless gods or mortal men to see: from its root grew a hundred blooms and it smelled most sweetly, so that all wide heaven above and the whole earth and the sea's salt swell laughed for joy. And the girl was amazed and reached out with both hands to take the lovely toy; but the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord, Host of Many, with his immortal horses sprang out upon her --the Son of Saturno, He who has many names.
He caught her up reluctant on his golden car and bare her away lamenting. Then she cried out shrilly with her voice, calling upon her father, the Son of Saturno, who is most high and excellent. But no one, either of the deathless gods or of mortal men, heard her voice, nor yet the olive-trees bearing rich fruit: only tender-hearted Hecate, bright-coiffed, the daughter of Persaeus, heard the girl from her cave, and the lord Helios, Hyperion's bright son, as she cried to her father, the Son of Saturno. But he was sitting aloof, apart from the gods, in his temple where many pray, and receiving sweet offerings from mortal men. So he, that son of Saturno, of many names, who is Ruler of Many and Host of Many, was bearing her away by leave of Jupiter on his immortal chariot --his own brother's child and all unwilling.
And so long as she, the goddess, yet beheld earth and starry heaven and the strong-flowing sea where fishes shoal, and the rays of the sun, and still hoped to see her dear mother and the tribes of the eternal gods, so long hope calmed her great heart for all her trouble ... and the heights of the mountains and the depths of the sea rang with her immortal voice: and her queenly mother heard her.
Bitter pain seized her heart, and she rent the covering upon her divine hair with her dear hands: her dark cloak she cast down from both her shoulders and sped, like a wild-bird, over the firm land and yielding sea, seeking her child. But no one would tell her the truth, neither god nor mortal man; and of the birds of omen none came with true news for her. Then for nine days queenly Deo wandered over the earth with flaming torches in her hands, so grieved that she never tasted ambrosia and the sweet draught of nectar, nor sprinkled her body with water. But when the tenth enlightening dawn had come, Hecate, with a torch in her hands, met her, and spoke to her and told her news:
“Queenly Ceres, bringer of seasons and giver of good gifts, what god of heaven or what mortal man has rapt away Proserpina and pierced with sorrow your dear heart? For I heard her voice, yet saw not with my eyes who it was. But I tell you truly and shortly all I know.”
So, then, said Hecate. And the daughter of rich-haired Cibele answered her not, but sped swiftly with her, holding flaming torches in her hands. So they came to Helios, who is watchman of both gods and men, and stood in front of his horses: and the bright goddess enquired of him: “Helios, do you at least regard me, goddess as I am, if ever by word or deed of mine I have cheered your heart and spirit. Through the fruitless air I heard the thrilling cry of my daughter whom I bare, sweet scion of my body and lovely in form, as of one seized violently; though with my eyes I saw nothing. But you --for with your beams you look down from the bright upper air over all the earth and sea --tell me truly of my dear child, if you have seen her anywhere, what god or mortal man has violently seized her against her will and mine, and so made off.”
So said she. And the Son of Hyperion answered her: “Queen Ceres, daughter of rich-haired Cibele, I will tell you the truth; for I greatly reverence and pity you in your grief for your trim-ankled daughter. None other of the deathless gods is to blame, but only cloud-gathering Jupiter who gave her to Pluto, her father's brother, to be called his buxom wife. And Pluto seized her and took her loudly crying in his chariot down to his realm of mist and gloom. Yet, goddess, cease your loud lament and keep not vain anger unrelentingly: Aidoneus, the Ruler of Many, is no unfitting husband among the deathless gods for your child, being your own brother and born of the same stock: also, for honor, he has that third share which he received when division was made at the first, and is appointed lord of those among whom he dwells.”
So he spake, and called to his horses: and at his chiding they quickly whirled the swift chariot along, like long-winged birds.
But grief yet more terrible and savage came into the heart of Ceres, and thereafter she was so angered with the dark-clouded Son of Saturno that she avoided the gathering of the gods and high Olympus, and went to the towns and rich fields of men, disfiguring her form a long while. And no one of men or deep-bosomed women knew her when they saw her, until she came to the house of wise Celeus who then was lord of fragrant Eleusis. Vexed in her dear heart, she sat near the wayside by the Maiden Well, from which the women of the place were used to draw water, in a shady place over which grew an olive shrub. And she was like an ancient woman who is cut off from childbearing and the gifts of garland-loving Venus, like the nurses of kings' children who deal justice, or like the house-keepers in their echoing halls. There the daughters of Celeus, son of Eleusis, saw her, as they were coming for easy-drawn water, to carry it in pitchers of bronze to their dear father's house: four were they and like goddesses in the flower of their girlhood, Callidice and Cleisidice and lovely Demo and Callithoe who was the eldest of them all. They knew her not, --for the gods are not easily discerned by mortals --, but standing near by her spoke winged words:
“Old mother, whence and who are you of folk born long ago? Why are you gone away from the city and do not draw near the houses? For there in the shady halls are women of just such age as you, and others younger; and they would welcome you both by word and by deed.”
Thus they said. And she, that queen among goddesses answered them saying: “Hail, dear children, whosoever you are of woman-kind. I will tell you my story; for it is not unseemly that I should tell you truly what you ask. Doso is my name, for my stately mother gave it me. And now I am come from Crete over the sea's wide back, --not willingly; but against my liking, by force of strength, pirates brought me thence. Afterwards they put in with their swift craft to Thoricus, and there the women landed on the shore in full throng and the men likewise, and they began to make ready a meal by the stern-cables of the ship. But my heart craved not pleasant food, and I fled secretly across the dark country and escaped my masters, that they should not take me unpurchased across the sea, there to win a price for me. And so I wandered and am come here: and I know not at all what land this is or what people are in it. But may all those who dwell on Olympus give you husbands and birth of children as parents desire, so you take pity on me, maidens, a and show me this clearly that I may learn, dear children, to the house of what man and woman I may go, to work for them cheerfully at such tasks as belong to a woman of my age. Well could I nurse a new born child, holding him in my arms, or keep house, or spread my masters' bed in a recess of the well-built chamber, or teach the women their work.”
So said the goddess. And straightway the unwed maiden Callidice, goodliest in form of the daughters of Celeus, answered her and said:
“Mother, what the gods send us, we mortals bear perforce, although we suffer; for they are much stronger than we. But now I will teach you clearly, telling you the names of men who have great power and honor here and are chief among the people, guarding our city's coif of towers by their wisdom and true judgements: there is wise Triptolemus and Dioclus and Polyxeinus and blameless Eumolpus and Dolichus and our own brave father. All these have wives who manage in the house, and no one of them, so soon as she had seen you, would dishonor you and turn you from the house, but they will welcome you; for indeed you are godlike. But if you will, stay here; and we will go to our father's house and tell Metaneira, our deep-bosomed mother, all this matter fully, that she may bid you rather come to our home than search after the houses of others. She has an only son, late-born, who is being nursed in our well-built house, a child of many prayers and welcome: if you could bring him up until he reached the full measure of youth, any one of womankind who should see you would straightway envy you, such gifts would our mother give for his upbringing.”
So she spake: and the goddess bowed her head in assent. And they filled their shining vessels with water and carried them off rejoicing. Quickly they came to their father's great house and straightway told their mother according as they had heard and seen. Then she bade them go with all speed and invite the stranger to come for a measureless hire. As hinds or heifers in spring time, when sated with pasture, bound about a meadow, so they, holding up the folds of their lovely garments, darted down the hollow path, and their hair like a crocus flower streamed about their shoulders. And they found the good goddess near the wayside where they had left her before, and led her to the house of their dear father. And she walked behind, distressed in her dear heart, with her head veiled and wearing a dark cloak which waved about the slender feet of the goddess.
Soon they came to the house of heaven-nurtured Celeus and went through the portico to where their queenly mother sat by a pillar of the close-fitted roof, holding her son, a tender scion, in her bosom. And the girls ran to her. But the goddess walked to the threshold: and her head reached the roof and she filled the doorway with a heavenly radiance. Then awe and reverence and pale fear took hold of Metaneira, and she rose up from her couch before Ceres, and bade her be seated. But Ceres, bringer of seasons and giver of perfect gifts, would not sit upon the bright couch, but stayed silent with lovely eyes cast down until careful Iambe placed a jointed seat for her and threw over it a silvery fleece. Then she sat down and held her veil in her hands before her face. A long time she sat upon the stool without speaking because of her sorrow, and greeted no one by word or by sign, but rested, never smiling, and tasting neither food nor drink, because she pined with longing for her deep-bosomed daughter, until careful Iambe --who pleased her moods in aftertime also --moved the holy lady with many a quip and jest to smile and laugh and cheer her heart. Then Metaneira filled a cup with sweet wine and offered it to her; but she refused it, for she said it was not lawful for her to drink red wine, but bade them mix meal and water with soft mint and give her to drink. And Metaneira mixed the draught and gave it to the goddess as she bade. So the great queen Deo received it to observe the sacrament ...
And of them all, well-girded Metaneira first began to speak:
“Hail, lady! For I think you are not meanly but nobly born; truly dignity and grace are conspicuous upon your eyes as in the eyes of kings that deal justice. Yet we mortals bear perforce what the gods send us, though we be grieved; for a yoke is set upon our necks. But now, since you are come here, you shall have what I can bestow: and nurse me this child whom the gods gave me in my old age and beyond my hope, a son much prayed for. If you should bring him up until he reach the full measure of youth, any one of woman-kind that sees you will straightway envy you, so great reward would I give for his upbringing.”
Then rich-haired Ceres answered her: “And to you, also, lady, all hail, and may the gods give you good! Gladly will I take the boy to my breast, as you bid me, and will nurse him. Never, I ween, through any heedlessness of his nurse shall witchcraft hurt him nor yet the Undercutter: for I know a charm far stronger than the Woodcutter, and I know an excellent safeguard against woeful witchcraft.”
When she had so spoken, she took the child in her fragrant bosom with her divine hands: and his mother was glad in her heart. So the goddess nursed in the palace Demophoon, wise Celeus' goodly son whom well-girded Metaneira bare. And the child grew like some immortal being, not fed with food nor nourished at the breast: for by day a rich-crowned Ceres would anoint him with ambrosia as if he were the offspring of a god and breathe sweetly upon him as she held him in her bosom. But at night she would hide him like a brand in the heart of the fire, unknown to his dear parents. And it wrought great wonder in these that he grew beyond his age; for he was like the gods face to face. And she would have made him deathless and unageing, had not well-girded Metaneira in her heedlessness kept watch by night from her sweet-smelling chamber and spied. But she wailed and smote her two hips, because she feared for her son and was greatly distraught in her heart; so she lamented and uttered winged words:
“Demophoon, my son, the strange woman buries you deep in fire and works grief and bitter sorrow for me.”
Thus she spoke, mourning. And the bright goddess, lovely-crowned Ceres, heard her, and was wroth with her. So with her divine hands she snatched from the fire the dear son whom Metaneira had born unhoped-for in the palace, and cast him from her to the ground; for she was terribly angry in her heart. Forthwith she said to well-girded Metaneira:
“Witless are you mortals and dull to foresee your lot, whether of good or evil, that comes upon you. For now in your heedlessness you have wrought folly past healing; for --be witness the oath of the gods, the relentless water of Styx -- I would have made your dear son deathless and unaging all his days and would have bestowed on him everlasting honor, but now he can in no way escape death and the fates. Yet shall unfailing honor always rest upon him, because he lay upon my knees and slept in my arms. But, as the years move round and when he is in his prime, the sons of the Eleusinians shall ever wage war and dread strife with one another continually. Lo! I am that Ceres who has share of honor and is the greatest help and cause of joy to the undying gods and mortal men. But now, let all the people build me a great temple and an altar below it and beneath the city and its sheer wall upon a rising hillock above Callichorus. And I myself will teach my rites, that hereafter you may reverently perform them and so win the favour of my heart.”
When she had so said, the goddess changed her stature and her looks, thrusting old age away from her: beauty spread round about her and a lovely fragrance was wafted from her sweet-smelling robes, and from the divine body of the goddess a light shone afar, while golden tresses spread down over her shoulders, so that the strong house was filled with brightness as with lightning. And so she went out from the palace.
And straightway Metaneira's knees were loosed and she remained speechless for a long while and did not remember to take up her late-born son from the ground. But his sisters heard his pitiful wailing and sprang down from their well-spread beds: one of them took up the child in her arms and laid him in her bosom, while another revived the fire, and a third rushed with soft feet to bring their mother from her fragrant chamber. And they gathered about the struggling child and washed him, embracing him lovingly; but he was not comforted, because nurses and handmaids much less skilful were holding him now.
All night long they sought to appease the glorious goddess, quaking with fear. But, as soon as dawn began to show, they told powerful Celeus all things without fail, as the lovely-crowned goddess Ceres charged them. So Celeus called the countless people to an assembly and bade them make a goodly temple for rich-haired Ceres and an altar upon the rising hillock. And they obeyed him right speedily and harkened to his voice, doing as he commanded. As for the child, he grew like an immortal being.
Now when they had finished building and had drawn back from their toil, they went every man to his house. But golden-haired Ceres sat there apart from all the blessed gods and stayed, wasting with yearning for her deep-bosomed daughter. Then she caused a most dreadful and cruel year for mankind over the all-nourishing earth: the ground would not make the seed sprout, for rich-crowned Ceres kept it hid. In the fields the oxen drew many a curved plough in vain, and much white barley was cast upon the land without avail. So she would have destroyed the whole race of man with cruel famine and have robbed them who dwell on Olympus of their glorious right of gifts and sacrifices, had not Jupiter perceived and marked this in his heart. First he sent golden-winged Iris to call rich-haired Ceres, lovely in form. So he commanded. And she obeyed the dark-clouded Son of Saturno, and sped with swift feet across the space between. She came to the stronghold of fragrant Eleusis, and there finding dark-cloaked Ceres in her temple, spake to her and uttered winged words:
“Ceres, father Jupiter, whose wisdom is everlasting, calls you to come join the tribes of the eternal gods: come therefore, and let not the message I bring from Jupiter pass unobeyed.”
Thus said Iris imploring her. But Ceres's heart was not moved. Then again the father sent forth all the blessed and eternal gods besides: and they came, one after the other, and kept calling her and offering many very beautiful gifts and whatever rights she might be pleased to choose among the deathless gods. Yet no one was able to persuade her mind and will, so wroth was she in her heart; but she stubbornly rejected all their words: for she vowed that she would never set foot on fragrant Olympus nor let fruit spring out of the ground, until she beheld with her eyes her own fair-faced daughter.
Now when all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer heard this, he sent the Slayer of Argus whose wand is of gold to Erebus, so that having won over Pluto with soft words, he might lead forth chaste Proserpina to the light from the misty gloom to join the gods, and that her mother might see her with her eyes and cease from her anger. And Mercurio obeyed, and leaving the house of Olympus, straightway sprang down with speed to the hidden places of the earth. And he found the lord Pluto in his house seated upon a couch, and his shy mate with him, much reluctant, because she yearned for her mother. But she was afar off, brooding on her fell design because of the deeds of the blessed gods. And the strong Slayer of Argus drew near and said:
“Dark-haired Pluto, ruler over the departed, father Jupiter bids me bring noble Proserpina forth from Erebus unto the gods, that her mother may see her with her eyes and cease from her dread anger with the immortals; for now she plans an awful deed, to destroy the weakly tribes of earth-born men by keeping seed hidden beneath the earth, and so she makes an end of the honors of the undying gods. For she keeps fearful anger and does not consort with the gods, but sits aloof in her fragrant temple, dwelling in the rocky hold of Eleusis.”
So he said. And Aidoneus, ruler over the dead, smiled grimly and obeyed the behest of Jupiter the king. For he straightway urged wise Proserpina, saying:
“Go now, Proserpina, to your dark-robed mother, go, and feel kindly in your heart towards me: be not so exceedingly cast down; for I shall be no unfitting husband for you among the deathless gods, that am own brother to father Jupiter. And while you are here, you shall rule all that lives and moves and shall have the greatest rights among the deathless gods: those who defraud you and do not appease your power with offerings, reverently performing rites and paying fit gifts, shall be punished for evermore.”
When he said this, wise Proserpina was filled with joy and hastily sprang up for gladness. But he on his part secretly gave her sweet pomegranate seed to eat, taking care for himself that she might not remain continually with grave, dark-robed Ceres. Then Aidoneus the Ruler of Many openly got ready his deathless horses beneath the golden chariot. And she mounted on the chariot, and the strong Slayer of Argus took reins and whip in his dear hands and drove forth from the hall, the horses speeding readily. Swiftly they traversed their long course, and neither the sea nor river-waters nor grassy glens nor mountain-peaks checked the career of the immortal horses, but they clave the deep air above them as they went. And Mercurio brought them to the place where rich-crowned Ceres was staying and checked them before her fragrant temple.
And when Ceres saw them, she rushed forth as does a Maenad down some thick-wooded mountain, while Proserpina on the other side, when she saw her mother's sweet eyes, left the chariot and horses, and leaped down to run to her, and falling upon her neck, embraced her. But while Ceres was still holding her dear child in her arms, her heart suddenly misgave her for some snare, so that she feared greatly and ceased fondling her daughter and asked of her at once: “My child, tell me, surely you have not tasted any food while you were below? Speak out and hide nothing, but let us both know. For if you have not, you shall come back from loathly Pluto and live with me and your father, the dark-clouded Son of Saturno and be honored by all the deathless gods; but if you have tasted food, you must go back again beneath the secret places of the earth, there to dwell a third part of the seasons every year: yet for the two parts you shall be with me and the other deathless gods. But when the earth shall bloom with the fragrant flowers of spring in every kind, then from the realm of darkness and gloom thou shalt come up once more to be a wonder for gods and mortal men. a And now tell me how he rapt you away to the realm of darkness and gloom, and by what trick did the strong Host of Many beguile you?”
Then beautiful Proserpina answered her thus: “Mother, I will tell you all without error. When luck-bringing Mercurio came, swift messenger from my father the Son of Saturno and the other Sons of Heaven, bidding me come back from Erebus that you might see me with your eyes and so cease from your anger and fearful wrath against the gods, I sprang up at once for joy; but he secretly put in my mouth sweet food, a pomegranate seed, and forced me to taste against my will. Also I will tell how he rapt me away by the deep plan of my father the Son of Saturno and carried me off beneath the depths of the earth, and will relate the whole matter as you ask. All we were playing in a lovely meadow, Leucippe and Phaeno and Electra and Ianthe, Melita also and Iache with Rhodea and Callirhoe and Melobosis and Tyche and Ocyrhoe, fair as a flower, Chryseis, Ianeira, Acaste and Admete and Rhodope and Pluto and charming Calypso; Styx too was there and Urania and lovely Galaxaura with Pallas who rouses battles and Diana delighting in arrows: we were playing and gathering sweet flowers in our hands, soft crocuses mingled with irises and hyacinths, and rose-blooms and lilies, marvellous to see, and the narcissus which the wide earth caused to grow yellow as a crocus. That I plucked in my joy; but the earth parted beneath, and there the strong lord, the Host of Many, sprang forth and in his golden chariot he bore me away, all unwilling, beneath the earth: then I cried with a shrill cry. All this is true, sore though it grieves me to tell the tale.”
So did they then, with hearts at one, greatly cheer each the other's soul and spirit with many an embrace: their hearts had relief from their griefs while each took and gave back joyousness.
Then bright-coiffed Hecate came near to them, and often did she embrace the daughter of holy Ceres: and from that time the lady Hecate was minister and companion to Proserpina.
And all-seeing Jupiter sent a messenger to them, rich-haired Cibele, to bring dark-cloaked Ceres to join the families of the gods: and he promised to give her what rights she should choose among the deathless gods and agreed that her daughter should go down for the third part of the circling year to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts should live with her mother and the other deathless gods. Thus he commanded. And the goddess did not disobey the message of Jupiter; swiftly she rushed down from the peaks of Olympus and came to the plain of Rharus, rich, fertile corn-land once, but then in nowise fruitful, for it lay idle and utterly leafless, because the white grain was hidden by design of trim-ankled Ceres. But afterwards, as spring-time waxed, it was soon to be waving with long ears of corn, and its rich furrows to be loaded with grain upon the ground, while others would already be bound in sheaves. There first she landed from the fruitless upper air: and glad were the goddesses to see each other and cheered in heart. Then bright-coiffed Cibele said to Ceres:
“Come, my daughter; for far-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer calls you to join the families of the gods, and has promised to give you what rights you please among the deathless gods, and has agreed that for a third part of the circling year your daughter shall go down to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts shall be with you and the other deathless gods: so has he declared it shall be and has bowed his head in token. But come, my child, obey, and be not too angry unrelentingly with the dark-clouded Son of Saturno; but rather increase forthwith for men the fruit that gives them life.”
So spake Cibele. And rich-crowned Ceres did not refuse but straightway made fruit to spring up from the rich lands, so that the whole wide earth was laden with leaves and flowers. Then she went, and to the kings who deal justice, Triptolemus and Diocles, the horse-driver, and to doughty Eumolpus and Celeus, leader of the people, she showed the conduct of her rites and taught them all her mysteries, to Triptolemus and Polyxeinus and Diocles also, --awful mysteries which no one may in any way transgress or pry into or utter, for deep awe of the gods checks the voice. Happy is he among men upon earth who has seen these mysteries; but he who is uninitiate and who has no part in them, never has lot of like good things once he is dead, down in the darkness and gloom.
But when the bright goddess had taught them all, they went to Olympus to the gathering of the other gods. And there they dwell beside Jupiter who delights in thunder, awful and reverend goddesses. Right blessed is he among men on earth whom they freely love: soon they do send Plutus as guest to his great house, Plutus who gives wealth to mortal men.
And now, queen of the land of sweet Eleusis and sea-girt Paros and rocky Antron, lady, giver of good gifts, bringer of seasons, queen Deo, be gracious, you and your daughter all beauteous Proserpina, and for my song grant me heart-cheering substance. And now I will remember you and another song also.________ And may the goddess, on honor of her happiness having her daughter back, bless our Res Publica on this Cerealia! L. Arminius FaustusSenior Plebeian Aedile


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espaço, antivírus, acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9715 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> only
> > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
>
> You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)

But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9716 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Brett Murphy <aussiegent@y...>
wrote:
> Is that on the subject of colonies or am I mistaken?

*****You are correct, it IS on forming colonies. :-)
Publius Tarquitius Rufus

>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone
mobile.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9717 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Salve Senator Drusus!

Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
please:

Lex Tarquitius Municipiae

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a
Municipia.

1a. Recommend that the geographical boundary NOT cross provincial
boundaries, and be within a 150KM from the central city of
record/city of application.

2. Applications for all Municipiae must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.

2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.

2b. All Municipiae awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate Approval is granted to the
colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Municipiae Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Municipiae by the Providence's Governor.

6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Municipia".

8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor
and Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003


Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9718 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Salve Senator Drusus!

Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
please:

Lex Tarquitius Municipiae

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a
Municipia.

1a. Recommend that the geographical boundary NOT cross provincial
boundaries, and be within a 150KM from the central city of
record/city of application.

2. Applications for all Municipiae must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.

2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.

2b. All Municipiae awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate Approval is granted to the
colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Municipiae Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Municipiae by the Providence's Governor.

6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Municipia".

8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor
and Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003


Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9719 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
The poor formating and merging of all line breaks done by the hateful
Yahoo mail on such beatufil text gives me a bitter sadness.

L. Arminius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Arminius Faustus
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Homeric Hymns (ed. Hugh G. Evelyn-White)
> To Ceres
> I begin to sing of rich-haired Ceres, awful goddess --of her and
her trim-ankled daughter whom Pluto Aidoneus rapt away, given to him
by all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9720 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Curse Tablets (Defixiones)
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the discussion of curse-tablets in "A Corpus of
Writing-Tablets from Roman Britain:

http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/RIB/RIBIV/jp4.htm

It's a British Academy research project under the auspices of the
Center for the Study of
Ancient Documents at Oxford University.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9721 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
-----Original Message-----
From : Octavius Giraldo-Vay <octavius@...>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>depictions of opposing religions to that of the invader, perhaps
>unworthy of protection?. It seems the only protection was given to the
>oil resources.
>

It is also even more opposed to the religious beliefs of the native extremists, as was evidenced by the Taliban's response to Buddhist art. As it happens, Baghdad is a developed city and the only fundamentalists are likely to be found among people like the Kurds who we favour. The National Archive of course probably contained as well as Ottoman writings, a lot of material incriminating to personnel associated with Saddam. No doubt he had his secret police and their informants and the all know what happened to the Staasi's Berlin archives. For the more ignorant, his self-association with equally horrendous personages of the past such as NebuChadrezzar may have backfired by tainting their works. We could always make a start looking for the original Ishtar Gate ofBabylon said to have been carted off to Germany long ago.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9722 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Ave A. Apollonius et Omnes,

They have a section where they can put the name of a non-running candidiate...which granted we can do in macronational elections too..but with our small numbers that can mean the difference with winning a Tribe or a Century.

Then there is also the section about abstaining all together as well.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?


A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> only
> > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
>
> You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)

But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9723 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
Salve G. Iulius Scaurus


Thanks that is what most of the other reviews I read said. In general not a
very good book. So I will buy something else

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Rose" <gfr@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:00 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_


> G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Tiberi Galeri.
>
> I read it and found it very superficial, with more errors than I would
> have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from Cambridge (but Everitt
> was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent most of his
> professional life as an "art consultant"). The breathless "Romans are
> so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was probably dictated by
> the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_ colosseum on the
> dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but Everitt sees Cicero as
> the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which obscures rather
> more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review in the NYT (Aug.
> 25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that there is nothing
> new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable about the rate of
> error than I would have been. A much better introduction to Cicero
> can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and Political Thought_
> (Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges Cicero's
> philosophical work. The authoritative biography of Cicero in English
> is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the Ascending the Years_
> (Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_ (Yale, 1991). I
> confess I wonder whether posterity would have thought so highly of
> Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival of so many of his
> works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The writings of most
> of his contemporaries did not survive and, where they do, tend to
> reflect rather less favourably on him than his own do.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9724 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Taxes
Salvete Atia omnesque

> 1. May I pay for more than one year at a time (say 2 or 3 years)?

Yes. If the tax rate changes in subsequent years, whatever balance you have
will be credited to you. However, be advised that this is somewhat risky.
Each year, everyone involved in taxation changes because all of the positions
involved are elected. Therefore, it's possible that your advance payment might
get lost in the shuffle, causing you some headaches down the road.

> 2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?

Yes, so long as you are subscribed to the main list or the announcements list,
and/or have a valid email address on record with the censores.

> 3. Do I pay the same for my children as for myself (They are 4 and 6
> years now)?

No. Minores are exempt from taxation.

> 4. Do I pay the same rate for the minors as for myself?

Only if you want to. As I said, they're exempt.

> I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
> website.

This is probably because you were signed up to neither the main list nor the
announcements list and had an old email address on record with the censores.

> I also need to have my email address officially changed.

You can change your address from the Nova Roma site (though I can't seem to
reach it this morning), or you can send the censores your new address directly
at censors@....

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9725 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
-----Original Message-----
From : Michel Loos <loos@...>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
>
>Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
>humankind based.
>
It is very similar to law in the days of a free republic of equals (and dependents) a thousand years ago in Iceland or 200 as T. Jefferson probably wished it (or Anne MacCaffrey fantasises it). Yes there is law, no there is no way to enforce it if nobody wants to enforce it. Unfortunately, such a Gentleman's Agreement only works between perfect gentlemen. Once anyone is in a position to say " 'Outlawed, not to shelter or succour' but my fifty followers think different from your twenty, what you going to do about it?" it's on a par with the old days of declaring Nuclear Free Zones.
Vib. Ambrosius Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9726 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> > > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> > only
> > > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
> >
> > You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>
>
> I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)
>
> But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
> in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
> couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.
>
> Cordus

Salve,

There is the write-in line of the ballot which can throw things in
two ways.

Any voter can write in the name of a person not on the ballot. With
such small numbers in our tribes and centuries a write in can easily
take a tribe/century.

Also there is the phenomena of the voter putting a candidate who's
name is already on the ballot into the write in spot. Let's say
Lucius Diddlipus is on the ballot. Voter XYZ123 writes in Lucuis
Diddlipus. You and I would know that they are one and the same just
misspelled. A computer on the other hand thinks that Lucius
Diddlipus and Lucuis Diddlipus are two totally seperate people.
The "real" Lucius Diddlipus loses a vote. In the case of such small
tribes and centuries quite possibly the tribe/century and thusly the
election all because computers are not very good at understanding
intent.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9727 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: NR website
The server that houses novaroma.org was unreachable, or nearly unreachable,
from about 7pm to 3am CDT last night as the result of a denial of service
attack (also known as a "flood" or "SYN flood") against another host
on the same network.

Some criminal miscreant chose to attack my nameserver with a sustained
load of 4.5 Mb/s (4.5 million bits per second) of bogus requests to
connect. These made the network my servers are plugged into completely
unuseable (so much so that we could not even connect in order to diagnose
the problem from outside; I and another owner of servers there had to
drive to the location of the equipment and attach a monitor to
see what was happening).

The reason for this is that my secondary nameserver - the victim of
the attack - is a nameserver for a major anti-spam activity, the
SpamHaus project. Thousands of mail servers worldwide connect to our
nameservers each time they receive mail, in order to perform a database
lookup and determine whether the sender is a known spammer.

Apparently an angry spammer has decided to make spamhaus unuseable by
taking down the nameservers with a spoofed DOS attack - meaning the
addresses they use are forged and randomized to make blocking difficult.
I received confirmation this morning that at least one other spamhaus
nameserver had also been attacked.

At its high point there were about 8000 of these bogus requests coming
in per second, using an amount of bandwidth equivalent to three T1
lines (72 regular phone lines).

Finally, after three hours of repeatedly calling their help desk and
waiting for them to escalate to the next group of engineers, they
(the ISP) were able to block all traffic to the afflicted server,
thereby allowing the rest of the network to regain the ability to use
that connection.

Given the difficulty involved in getting filters put into a router
that I don't control, I'll likely be withdrawing as a spamhaus
nameserver; I can't afford to let this happen again.

[below is what I sent to an antispam mailing list habituated by
sysadmins and activists: ]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:19:37 -0500
From: Matt Hucke <hucke@...>
To: SPAM-L@...
Subject: denial of service attack against spamhaus.org nameserver

I run one of the nameservers for spamhaus.org - ns2.cynico.net.

For about 4 hours now it has been the target of an apparent DDOS
attack; 4.5 MB/sec of DNS requests coming from a multitude of
spoofed source addresses of the form xxx.yyy.0.0:

22:07:46.226460 196.101.0.0.1003 > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 478281728:478281728(0) win 16384 (ttl 106, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.226632 196.99.0.0.bridgecontrol > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1677000704:1677000704(0) win 16384 (ttl 108, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227184 244.184.0.0.isis-am > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 413794304:413794304(0) win 16384 (ttl 107, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227251 196.32.0.0.jacobus-lm > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 691732480:691732480(0) win 16384 (ttl 103, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227427 44.109.0.0.qubes > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1017249792:1017249792(0) win 16384 (ttl 109, id 256, len 40)

[ notice these 5 examples all happened within the same
two thousandthds of a second ]

This server does nothing but name service, and the bulk of its traffic
is for spamhaus.org. I don't know of any other reason why it would
be a target. Due to the spoofed source addresses, I'll likely never
know who the originator was.

I have asked Qwest (the colocation space provider) to put in a router
block for all traffic to 66.77.28.200. I cannot afford to pay for
this bandwidth, or to have the network this server is connected to
be completely saturated. Unless the perpetrator is found, I may have
to abandon my participation in the SpamHaus project.



--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9728 From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Regarding website
In a message dated 4/15/03 8:58:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hucke@...
writes:


> hastur.cynico.net.domain:

I have to ask. Is this hastur Lovecraft's unspeakable one "The one that
shall not be named?"

QFM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9729 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Salave Senator Fabi,

> > hastur.cynico.net.domain:
>
> I have to ask. Is this hastur Lovecraft's unspeakable one "The one that
> shall not be named?"

Of course! When it comes to hostnames, I steal only from the great.

My servers (all names end in cynico.net):

nyarlathotep (FreeBSD) - mail, web, dns
hastur (Linux (SuSE)) - dns, experimental web sites

...and my home machines:

yog-sothoth (Linux (RH)) - router & backup repository
azathoth (Linux (RH)) - my primary desktop machine
shub-niggurath (windows xp)
dagon (windows 2000) - rarely used

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://cynico.net/~hucke/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9730 From: The Author Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Tax Thanks
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:42:17 US/Central
> From: labienus@...
> Subject: Re: Taxes
>
> Salvete Atia omnesque
>
> > 1. May I pay for more than one year at a time
> (say 2 or 3 years)?
>
> Yes. If the tax rate changes in subsequent years,
> whatever balance you have
> will be credited to you. However, be advised that
> this is somewhat risky.
> Each year, everyone involved in taxation changes
> because all of the positions
> involved are elected. Therefore, it's possible that
> your advance payment might
> get lost in the shuffle, causing you some headaches
> down the road.
>

OK, good to know. One year at a time it is <G>.



>
> > I also need to have my email address officially
> changed.
>
> You can change your address from the Nova Roma site
> (though I can't seem to
> reach it this morning), or you can send the censores
> your new address directly
> at censors@....
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
>

I changed my addy from the website AND informed the
censores AND webmaster last night. However there are
problems with the accounts of Maia Equitia Atia and
Titus Equitius Lapis. I cannot access them to change
the email addresses. I need the email addresses and
passwords to be the same as my own, so I can access
their accounts for them.

Thanks,
Pax,
SAA

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9731 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Salve Octavius,

While we are on the subject of your non-NR interests :-)

I was looking at your ghost website yesterday and scared the crap out of
myself. I kept getting cold chills and looking out of the corner of my eye
to see if anything was moving that wasn't supposed to. Of course, I kept
reading....

I'll tell you offlist about my family's ghost offlist if you'd like. Every
Sicilian family has one I think...

Vale!
Diana Moravia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9732 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Tax Thanks
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, The Author <cas_the_author@y...>
scripsit:
>

>
> I changed my addy from the website AND informed the
> censores AND webmaster last night. However there are
> problems with the accounts of Maia Equitia Atia and
> Titus Equitius Lapis. I cannot access them to change
> the email addresses. I need the email addresses and
> passwords to be the same as my own, so I can access
> their accounts for them.
>
> Thanks,
> Pax,
> SAA

I updated your e-mail address in the "Priests and Priesthoods" page
just now. I can also update your children's records when I recieve
directions from the censors.

Bene vale!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna, scriba Curator Araneum et scriba
Censorem
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9733 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Anti-U.S.
Unfortunately I must disagree that Master Loos "has reched the bottom"
of his anti-U.S. tirade.

In very similar fashion to the arab news agencies around the the
Mid-East, anything that the U.S. does it will be seen, by him, in a
negative light:

--Freeing Iraq from the grip of a dictator -- Colonizing the Country /
stealing it's oil;

--Bringing food, water and medicine to one time enemies -- didn't happen
soon enough;

--Helping wounded enemy soldiers -- staging a untrue scene;

As in the above examples no matter what the U.S. does, there will be
those who will see and attack that part of the action which can be
questioned or in any way be suspect or criticized.

Master Loos is one NR Citizen whose messages I delete first as his
anti-U.S. feelings come through in nearly every one of his posts (Bagdad
Bob comes to mind). Since his views are often in error, (Much like
B.B.) I see no value in reading them.

In regard to some others on this list, who have provided detailed and
interesting infrmation for consideration, I am willing to listen to
thier comments even though they may not be flattering, but in the former
case, I anticipate no diminishing of the anti-U.S. word flow, and since
no information worthy of the name accompanies such feeling from Master
Loos, his comments for my part constitute a waste of my valuable time.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9734 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
Salvete quirites!

Despite this (amazing) bug with Nova Roma server, Cerealia website is still
running!!
And now it is finally up-to-date!
It has been updated everyday, so that it can follow what happens on the
mailing lists.
You will find at the site everything you need to know about goddess Ceres
and her festival, rules and results of Gladiator Combats (Munera), Chariot
Races and Literary Contest and the Event Texts, which are also being
published at Main List, as well as Prosepine Saga when it is finished.

So, visit it and enjoy Cerealia!
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia/

Valete bene.
May Ceres keep blessing us all.
________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@...
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________
“CONCORDIA PARVÆ RES CRESCVNT,
DISCORDIA MAXIMÆ DILABVNTVR.”
— C. Salustius
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯





> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:hucke@...]
> Enviada em: terça-feira, 15 de abril de 2003 12:57
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR website
>
>
>
> The server that houses novaroma.org was unreachable, or nearly
> unreachable,
> from about 7pm to 3am CDT last night as the result of a denial of service
> attack (also known as a "flood" or "SYN flood") against another host
> on the same network.
>
> Some criminal miscreant chose to attack my nameserver with a sustained
> load of 4.5 Mb/s (4.5 million bits per second) of bogus requests to
> connect. These made the network my servers are plugged into completely
> unuseable (so much so that we could not even connect in order to diagnose
> the problem from outside; I and another owner of servers there had to
> drive to the location of the equipment and attach a monitor to
> see what was happening).
>
> The reason for this is that my secondary nameserver - the victim of
> the attack - is a nameserver for a major anti-spam activity, the
> SpamHaus project. Thousands of mail servers worldwide connect to our
> nameservers each time they receive mail, in order to perform a database
> lookup and determine whether the sender is a known spammer.
>
> Apparently an angry spammer has decided to make spamhaus unuseable by
> taking down the nameservers with a spoofed DOS attack - meaning the
> addresses they use are forged and randomized to make blocking difficult.
> I received confirmation this morning that at least one other spamhaus
> nameserver had also been attacked.
>
> At its high point there were about 8000 of these bogus requests coming
> in per second, using an amount of bandwidth equivalent to three T1
> lines (72 regular phone lines).
>
> Finally, after three hours of repeatedly calling their help desk and
> waiting for them to escalate to the next group of engineers, they
> (the ISP) were able to block all traffic to the afflicted server,
> thereby allowing the rest of the network to regain the ability to use
> that connection.
>
> Given the difficulty involved in getting filters put into a router
> that I don't control, I'll likely be withdrawing as a spamhaus
> nameserver; I can't afford to let this happen again.
>
> [below is what I sent to an antispam mailing list habituated by
> sysadmins and activists: ]
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:19:37 -0500
> From: Matt Hucke <hucke@...>
> To: SPAM-L@...
> Subject: denial of service attack against spamhaus.org nameserver
>
> I run one of the nameservers for spamhaus.org - ns2.cynico.net.
>
> For about 4 hours now it has been the target of an apparent DDOS
> attack; 4.5 MB/sec of DNS requests coming from a multitude of
> spoofed source addresses of the form xxx.yyy.0.0:
>
> 22:07:46.226460 196.101.0.0.1003 > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 478281728:478281728(0) win 16384 (ttl 106, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.226632 196.99.0.0.bridgecontrol >
> hastur.cynico.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1677000704:1677000704(0)
> win 16384 (ttl 108, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227184 244.184.0.0.isis-am > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 413794304:413794304(0) win 16384 (ttl 107, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227251 196.32.0.0.jacobus-lm > hastur.cynico.net.domain:
> S [tcp sum ok] 691732480:691732480(0) win 16384 (ttl 103, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227427 44.109.0.0.qubes > hastur.cynico.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 1017249792:1017249792(0) win 16384 (ttl 109, id 256, len 40)
>
> [ notice these 5 examples all happened within the same
> two thousandthds of a second ]
>
> This server does nothing but name service, and the bulk of its traffic
> is for spamhaus.org. I don't know of any other reason why it would
> be a target. Due to the spoofed source addresses, I'll likely never
> know who the originator was.
>
> I have asked Qwest (the colocation space provider) to put in a router
> block for all traffic to 66.77.28.200. I cannot afford to pay for
> this bandwidth, or to have the network this server is connected to
> be completely saturated. Unless the perpetrator is found, I may have
> to abandon my participation in the SpamHaus project.
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://cynico.net/~hucke/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Mensagem recebida está livre de vírus.
> Recebida por GNBS através do MSO2K.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 17/3/2003
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 17/3/2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9735 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Chariot Races Semi-final!
Salvete omnes,

The Semi-finals are here! After some excellent racing, we have nine
drivers left, all desperate for a place in the final! Some of these
drivers are almost heroes, well-known by the people. For others,
this is their first Ludi. But enough talk. On with the races!

******************************Race 1***********************

Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
factio: Albata
driver: Carolus Daemonicus
chariot: B.S.D. Liber
q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
fin tactic: pass closely the spina

Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
Factio: Veneta
Chariot: Orionis Draco
Driver: Equus Magnus
Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
Finals Strategy: (2)

Name: Sextus Arminius Remus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Remus
Chariot: Fulminatora
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To support a constant pace
Tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

Name:Lucius Quintius Constantius
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Polycrates.
Chariot: Confluat
Tactics for quarter/semi finals: To support a
constant pace.
Tactics for finals: Push rivals to wall of the
circus.

Once again we have one of every colour racing to defend the honour of
their factio. Each of the drivers experiences a moment of fear,
knowing that the many accidents littering the first round could
happen to them this time round. But there is no time to let the fear
increase, because the signal goes! Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber
race off, while Confluat and Fulminatora are content to keep a
constant speed behind them, waiting for their moment. And that
moment comes quickly. Orionis Draco makes a small miscalculation on
the second corner, and skids slightly. B.S.D. Liber has to swerve to
avoid hitting him, and Fulminatora and Confluat immediately lash
their horses, zooming past the blue and the white. B.S.D. Liber,
infuriated with Orionis Draco, moves past, and, with a burst of
speed, also passes Fulminatora and Confluat. Carolus Daemonicus, an
experienced driver, swerves just in front of Confluat, so that
Confluat has to drive round him. Unfortunately, Polycrates, the
driver of Confluat, doesn't see that Fulminatora is trying to pass
B.S.D. Liber, and so Confluat collides with Fulminatora. The two
unlucky chariots then crash into the walls of the circus, and look on
dejectedly as B.S.D. Liber and Orionis Draco take the qualifying
places.

1st: Accident!
2nd: Accident!
3rd: B.S.D. Liber
4th: Orionis Draco

Qualify for final: B.S.D. Liber and Orionis Draco.

**************************Race 2*******************

Name: Marcus Octavius Solaris
Factio: Albata
Driver: Damnator
Tactics in Quarters/Semis: lash the rivals (4)
Tactics in Final: push the rivals to the wall of the circus (5)

Name:Titus Arminius Volusius
Factio: Russata
Driver: Lepidus
Chariot: Velox
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To lash the rivals
His/her tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

Name: M.Tullius Philippicae
Factio: Albata
Chariot name: Alea Iacta Est
The name of your driver: Aurelius
Tactics for the quarter-finals: To hurry in the straight lines
Tactics for the semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus
Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines

Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pugio
Name of Chariot:Green Flash
Tactics: Hurry in last laps

Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Factio: Albata
Driver: Draco Borealis
Chariot: Imperator Invictus
Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)

There are five chariots in this race, just to accommodate the army of
Albatas who qualified from the first round. Ranged against the three
whites are a Praesina and a Russata - will the Albatas force a
largely-Albata final, or will the Praesina and Russata stop them in
the semis? Alea Iacta Est and Velox take an early lead, with both
looking for the right chance to take the other out of the race.
Meanwhile, Damnator and Imperator Invictus are engaged in a similar
battle. Pugio, the only chariot not engaged in what some might
consider foul play, is in the middle, hoping that he'll be able to
pass the two in the lead. Suddenly, after just half a lap, Velox
succeeds in pushing Alea Iacta Est against the walls of the circus,
where the driver is thrown onto the sands. Is he alright? No, he
may have some nasty bruises tomorrow. However, he seems to have
escaped the path of the chariots. Meanwhile, Damnator, angered at
the loss of one of his white teammates, forcibly pushes a way past
Pugio and lashes Velox. The tough Lepidus, driver of Velox, endures
this, but falls a little behind Damnator. Maliciously, Damnator
whips the the horse on the right that's pulling Velox. Consequently,
this horse goes faster, turning Velox to the left, where the chariot
is soon thrown against the same walls that destroyed Alea Iacta Est.
Truly, we have a bloodthirsty set of drivers today, quirites!
However, with Damnator's attention focussed on finishing off the
unfortunate Velox, he soon falls behind the other two. Pugio, who
has been waiting for this opportunity, cruises ahead with little
trouble, and Imperator Invictus, slightly hurt at the way that
Damnator broke off their battle to join another melee, passes
Damnator also. And there! Pugio has driven across the finish line,
closely followed by Imperator Invictus.

1st: Accident!
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Pugio
4th: Imperator Invictus
5th: Damnator

Qualify for final: Pugio and Imperator Invictus.

We have our four finalists!
B.S.D. Liber (Albata)
Orionis Draco (Veneta)
Pugio (Praesina)
Imperator Invictus (Albata)

We have a final with two Albatas, a Veneta and a Praesina. Nothing
is left of the mighty Russata horde that entered the Ludi - better
luck next time! But for the other three colours, thousands of fans
will be cheering. Will the Albatas maintain their new-found
strength? Will the Praesinas regain the glory of last year? Will
the Venetas manage to stop either of them from winning? Watch the
final race of the Ludi on the 17th to find out!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9736 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
Salvete,

I want to public praise T. Arminius Genialis on the name of the
Aedilship by the WONDERFUL work he is doing making the Cerealia´s
website. You, Genialis, really is worthy of a CORONA RETIARIA by your
deeds.

I want also to praise the participants of the Literary Contest, ended
today subscriptions. Really, the judges will have some ´reading´ days
ahead! The works had an average of quality hard to see. It is a
honour and responsability handle them.



L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Arminius Genialis"
<tagenialis@y...> wrote:
> Salvete quirites!
>
> Despite this (amazing) bug with Nova Roma server, Cerealia website
is still
> running!!
> And now it is finally up-to-date!
> It has been updated everyday, so that it can follow what happens on
the
> mailing lists.
> You will find at the site everything you need to know about goddess
Ceres
> and her festival, rules and results of Gladiator Combats (Munera),
Chariot
> Races and Literary Contest and the Event Texts, which are also being
> published at Main List, as well as Prosepine Saga when it is
finished.
>
> So, visit it and enjoy Cerealia!
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia/
>
> Valete bene.
> May Ceres keep blessing us all.
> ________________________________________
> Titus Arminius Genialis
> Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
> Scriba Curatoris Differum
> Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
> Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae
>
> tagenialis@y...
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
> ICQ UIN: 75873373
> ________________________________________
> "CONCORDIA PARVÆ RES CRESCVNT,
> DISCORDIA MAXIMÆ DILABVNTVR."
> — C. Salustius
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9737 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
Cornelius Sulla Felix, Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

My thanks to both of you for pointing out the write-in
option on the ballot, which I'd forgotten.

I have to admit I had been rather assuming that any
overhaul of the voting-system would remove this, since
it's unhistorical. At any rate I know that at least
one of the proposed systems (the one which I
personally prefer) does not contain a write-in option,
and would therefore be immune to this drawback.

So while it might not be possible, as I had hoped, to
avoid altogether having to mobilize the voting
populace in order to test the proposed systems, it
would be possible at least to reduce the number of
'live' tests required by computer-testing those which
have no write-in option.

From this point of view it would be useful to hear
from Senator Sinicius Drusus whether in his proposed
system the write-in option would be removed for the
second vote (in which all but two candidates have been
eliminated) - I would assume this to be the case, or
it would rather reduce the usefulness of striking
candidates off the ballot.

Thanks again for your correction.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9738 From: CAS Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Tax Thanks
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "julilla" <curatrix@v...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, The Author <cas_the_author@y...>

>
> I updated your e-mail address in the "Priests and Priesthoods" page
> just now. I can also update your children's records when I recieve
> directions from the censors.
>
> Bene vale!
>
>Thanks a mil!!

Pax,
Atia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9739 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
A. Apollonius Cordus to P. Tarquitius Rufus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the
> Tribunes of the
> Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate.
> Please feel free to
> post on this, as I am here to learn!

I'm sure one of our magistrates will answer you more
authoritatively than I can, but until then I'll try to
explain what I know.

The Senate can pass senatus consulta, which are a
fairly weak form of law and (in my view) not really
suitable for this sort of permanent and structural
measure. It is also true, however, that proposals
destined eventually to become leges are first put to
the Senate and passed as senatus consulta before being
put to one of the Comitia (Assemblies).

Only Consuls and Tribunes can propose items to the
Senate (although the Praetors can do so if the Consuls
are out of action), so in order to have anything
passed as a senatus consultum you would have to find a
Consul or Tribune willing to propose it to the Senate.
I would suggest that the best way to proceed would be
to e-mail them directly at tribunes @ novaroma . org
and consuls @ novaroma . org.

Proposals can also be made directly into leges by
putting them before either the Comitia Populi Tributa
or the Comitia Centuriata. Again, the only people who
can propose legislation to these are the Consuls and
the Tribunes, so these are the people you would need
to contact.

Since the people you need to contact are the same
whether the proposal goes through the Senate or not,
there is really no need for you to decide.

Finally, I would warn you that you might have to wait
a while before either the Consuls or the Tribunes are
able to deal with your proposal. I may be wrong - I'm
just guessing from what I've heard, which is that the
Tribunes are currently busy working on a solution to
the election problem, and the Consuls are (I think)
getting ready to put forward several important laws.
You have been very patient so far, and you may need to
be patient a bit longer. :)

I hope this is of some help.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9740 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Latin translation
Salvete omnes,

Can anyone provide a Latin translatin for the following:

Dedicated to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and
virtues


My thanks in advance.........


Valete,

Gaius Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9741 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Regarding website
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> I'll tell you offlist about my family's ghost offlist if you'd
like. Every
> Sicilian family has one I think...

You too? Well, I'm not Sicilian, but the house my parents bought
when I was 11 has always given me the creeps and two particular
incidents down right scared the daylights out of me. I love my
mother, but I hate going to visit because of being in that house.
I'm surprised my mother hasn't sold the place long ago since we both
share the trait of having vivid precognative dreams, but given my
suspicions as to what or should say who is in that house with her, I
imagine she's never been bothered by it.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9742 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-15
Subject: Re: Latin translation
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, lanius117@a... wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Can anyone provide a Latin translatin for the following:
>
> Dedicated to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture,
and virtues

"Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
our web site.

Ita est!

Julilla Sempronia Magna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9743 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Roman Concrete
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Roman Pantheon: The Triumph of Concrete" website:

http://www.romanconcrete.com/

The site's creator is David Moore, a professional engineer with
serious interests in how Roman concrete was manufactured and used in
Roman construction. It is clear that Mr. Moore has a fixation on
concrete, but his professionalism, scientific training, and dedication
to understanding this vital Roman construction material is outstanding.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9744 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Oath as Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
MARCVS IVLIVS PERVSIANVS QUIRITIBVS S.P.D.

I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus (Milko Anselmi) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus (Milko Anselmi)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and
to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus (Milko Anselmi) swear to uphold and defend the
Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act
in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus (Milko Anselmi) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus (Milko Anselmi) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legatus Internis Rebus
the best of my abilities. On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in
the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their
will and favor, do I accept the position of Legatus Internis Rebus and all
the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9745 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
Salve,
In a Runoff the write in option should be removed and
only the leading canidates should be on the ballot.
Run offs should be for selecting which of the leading
canidates is prefered, not an endless repeatition of
the the original election.

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
> Cornelius Sulla Felix, Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> My thanks to both of you for pointing out the
> write-in
> option on the ballot, which I'd forgotten.
>
> I have to admit I had been rather assuming that any
> overhaul of the voting-system would remove this,
> since
> it's unhistorical. At any rate I know that at least
> one of the proposed systems (the one which I
> personally prefer) does not contain a write-in
> option,
> and would therefore be immune to this drawback.
>
> So while it might not be possible, as I had hoped,
> to
> avoid altogether having to mobilize the voting
> populace in order to test the proposed systems, it
> would be possible at least to reduce the number of
> 'live' tests required by computer-testing those
> which
> have no write-in option.
>
> From this point of view it would be useful to hear
> from Senator Sinicius Drusus whether in his proposed
> system the write-in option would be removed for the
> second vote (in which all but two candidates have
> been
> eliminated) - I would assume this to be the case, or
> it would rather reduce the usefulness of striking
> candidates off the ballot.
>
> Thanks again for your correction.
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus
> For a better Internet experience
> http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9746 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
>
> I have to admit I had been rather assuming that any
> overhaul of the voting-system would remove this, since
> it's unhistorical. At any rate I know that at least
> one of the proposed systems (the one which I
> personally prefer) does not contain a write-in option,
> and would therefore be immune to this drawback.

Salve,

While write-in on the ballot is not historical, I believe, at least
for the first election, it is a neccessary concession to being a
modern free representative republic. It gives the voter at least a
chance to cast a vote for someone other than the announced candidates
if the voter feels none of the candidates on the slate are suitable.
It also allows a voter to cast a protest vote when faced with 1
candidate, 1 position if the voter doesn't believe that a candidate
no matter how popular and qualified should run unopposed. Removing
the write-in spot could be considered a form of censoring free
speech.

When it comes to a run-off, I really don't have a problem with
removing the write-in spot. I do hope that if the write-in spot is
not removed from the first round election, that should a candidate
receive enough write-in suppport, that candidate would be on the run-
off ballot if a run-off is required.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9747 From: wuffa2001 Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "William Rogers" <wlr107@y...>
wrote:
> Salve Senator Drusus!
>
> Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
> what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
> please:
>
> Lex Tarquitius Municipiae
>
>
Marcus Cornelius Felix replys:
Greeting Sir.
in your law you wish to do ( a copy is below my replys)
#8:( so if there are 40 people in a city and 15 say lets form a
Municipiae the other 25 have to go along with the 15?
#9: ok so you can make me a part of a group i may not want to join
and order me to 4 meeting a year.
#10 (a. and you can set money tax with out me voteing on it?in a
group i may not wish to join, but by this law i MUST join even if
less then 50 % of people want to.AND {B.
ok now if you do this in the state of oregon( subspart of USA)
and you set a Due,tax,fee for a Municipiae in said state you get to (
BY state law ,file parerwork with the state as a corp(501(c)3 .
and as a corp asking for money in the state and doing Biz in state. (
my lawery says youy should do this away)
and 11.well I am Sacerdos Primus America Boreoccidentalis, so I guess
i get to do the approval from thing on any new Priest also.. all this
is doing is makeing lots of work for people...
we here in America Boreoccidentalis have meeting we do not need a
group Ordering us to meeting(#9 in your law)
>
> 8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
> dues
> or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
> automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
> approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
> council, acceptance is automatic.
>
> 9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
> council must meet monthly.
>
> 10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to
Governor
> and Consuls quarterly.
>
> 11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
> a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are
some
> recommendations:
>
> 1. Webmaster
> 2. Quaestor
> 3. Scribe (P/R man)
> 4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
> approval)
>
> ================================================================
>
> I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
> Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free
to
> post on this, as I am here to learn!
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
> Nova Roman Assudii 2003
>
>
> Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9748 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Any Nova Roman Trucker's?
Salve,
If they are any Over-the-Road Trucker's(i.e. J.B. Hunt,
Crete, Dart, etc) that are Nova Romans and come through Wichita, KS let me
know. Contact me and we'll
make meeting arrangements. I work in the Security Dept.
of the Coleman Co.(The Greatest Name in the Great
Outdoors). Please, email if you come through Wichita
and we'll get together.

Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9749 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: CEREALIA CULTURAL MINUTE - ELEUSIS, A CITY FOR CERES
Eleusis Harry Thurston Peck, Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898) A city of Attica, equidistant from Megara and the Piraeus, and famed for the celebration of the mysteries of Demeter (Ceres). According to some writers it derived its name from a hero, whom some affirmed to be the son of Hermes but others of Ogyges (Pausan. i. 38). Its origin is certainly of the highest antiquity, as it appears to have already existed in the time of Cecrops, but we are not informed by whom, or at what period, the worship of Demeter was introduced there. Eusebius places the building of the first temple in the reign of Pandion; but, according to other authors, it is more ancient. Celeus is said to have been king of Eleusis when Demeter first arrived there. See Eleusinia.At one period Eleusis was powerful enough to contend with Athens for the sovereignty of Attica. This was in the time of Eumolpus. The controversy was ended by a treaty, wherein it was stipulated that Eleusis should yield to the control of Athens, but that the sacred rites of Demeter should be celebrated at the former city. Demeter and Triptolemus were both worshipped here with peculiar solemnity, and here also was shown the Rarius Campus, where Demeter was said to have first sown corn (Pausan. i. 38). The temple of Eleusis was burned by the Persian army in the in vasion of Attica ( Herod.ix. 65), but was rebuilt, under the administration of Pericles, by Ictinus, the architect of the Parthenon ( Pericles). This magnificent structure was entirely destroyed by Alaric in the year A.D. 396. Eleusis, though so considerable and important a place, was classed among the Attic demes and belonged to the tribe Hippothoöntis. The colossal statue of the Eleusinian Demeter, the work of Phidias, after having [p. 586] suffered many mutilations, was taken to England by Dr. Clarke and Mr. Cripps in 1801, and now stands in the vestibule of the University Library at Cambridge. The temple itself was cleared by Sir William Gell, and important excavations have been made by the Greek Archaeological Society since 1887. L. Arminius FaustusPlebeian Aedile


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9750 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re:[Nova-Roma] Re: Latin translation
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, lanius117@a... wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Can anyone provide a Latin translatin for the following:
>
> Dedicated to the restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture,
and virtues

"Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
our web site.

Ita est!

Julilla Sempronia Magna


ITA EST NON!


DEDICATVM RESTITVTIONI ROMANAE RELIGIONIS MORE MAIORVM STVDIORVM ET VIRTVTIS.


This is in my opinion the correct translation.

Dedicta: it's feminine. It doesn't look like it should be connected to anything feminine.

Restituioni: clearly a misprint for Restitutioni.

Classicae: it's a modern word Romans would have not used.

Culturae: still a word not used with our meaning in Latin.

Virtvtvm: in the plural means phisical strengths; you must keep it in the singular.

Reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander

Bononia
Italia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9751 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Salvete Quirites.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> <diana@p...> wrote:
>
> > I'll tell you offlist about my family's ghost offlist if you'd
> > like. Every Sicilian family has one I think...
>
> You too? Well, I'm not Sicilian, but the house my parents bought
> when I was 11 has always given me the creeps and two particular
> incidents down right scared the daylights out of me. I love my
> mother, but I hate going to visit because of being in that house.
> I'm surprised my mother hasn't sold the place long ago since we
> both share the trait of having vivid precognative dreams, but given
> my suspicions as to what or should say who is in that house with
> her, I imagine she's never been bothered by it.

Well; this might sound strange to you, but I have also lived a
similar example.

Not long ago, I was sitting on my uncle's living room with several
relatives. Somehow, the conversation derived towards a room whose
door gives to that living room. I had slept in that room when I was a
kid, and I remembered having very strange feelings about it. I
remembered feeling uneasy when alone in that room. My cousin, who had
slept in that room for years, said that he hadn't ever felt anything
strange about it.

Then my sister explained that she had also felt strange things when
sleeping in that room; in her dreams, she had felt a presence near
her, waking to see that noone was there. Then my other cousin said
that she had once thought that she had seen a hand gripping the doors
hing strongly, like if pulling the door.

Then comes the strangest thing. My aunt explained that her aunt had
lived (and died) in that house much before none of us had been born.
She moved around in a wheelchair, and she used to cling to doors to
move around, pulling herself and her wheelchair in that manner.
She had, of course, died in the room we were talking about.

None of us had ever heard that story before...

Scary, isn't it? :-). A little off topic (although the Romans always
*loved* a good ghost story; ask Pliny the Elder).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9752 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Fwd: Iranian Culture
Salvete Quirites.

I have received the following message. Since it is an invitation to
visit a web site that deals with a Roman-related topic (the Parthian
Empire should be considered on-topic here), I have decided to forward
it to you. I hope that some of you may find this interesting:

=============================================

De: "Rahman Mehraby" <info@...>
Para: <Nova-Roma-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Asunto: Iranian Culture
Fecha: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:18:23 +0330

Hi,



I have got plenty of ancient related subjects in my Website
I am an Iranian who has been searching for his cultural identity for
years. As I chose to be a tour guide in Iran and worked in this field
for years, I learned how to look for it, because non-Iranian tourists
repeatedly asked me questions related to this very critical issue.



All those who are curious about Iranian history, culture, civilization,
identity, etc (everything that makes one an Iranian) need to study
their nationÂ’s past from various perspectives like history, arts,
artifacts, life, literature, myths, ceremonies, great men and women who
formed our cultural background in the past. But, of course, this may
consume a lot of your time.



Because of the nature of my career, fortunately, I had to do this. IÂ’ve
already started a vast self-study program about what has motivated all
of us to come together in a group. The result is tens of articles
elaborating Iran from various standpoints.



A Call for Help
IÂ’d like to help all, as much as I can, to get to this goal of learning
about Iranian identity, culture and civilization. So, at present, IÂ’m
completely focused on this project, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12
months a year. I mean IÂ’m doing no other things to make a living. Why?
Because:



The 9/11 event and the subsequent anti-terror war has brought up such
an unsafe situation in the region that tourists are not visiting Iran
anymore; and I love to broaden my horizons and yours to wake up once
and for all in our lives and internalize the facts about the Iranian
identity – to know who Iranians are, to know who we are.


Therefore
I need all your helps to be able to go on with this lifetime project.
Please donÂ’t make a mistake! This is not a letter to ask for
sponsorship. What I ask you to do is to:



Visit the result of what IÂ’ve done: www.destinationiran.com. Read the
articles under the button “About Iran” as well as the sample of my
E-Magazine.
Purchase the incredibly low price E-Book called “About Iran” as much as
5 US Dollars. ItÂ’s a 100-page pictorial ebook covering various aspects
of Iran in around 40 articles, the summary of the outcome of my efforts
during the recent years.
Subscribe in the monthly E-Magazine called “IranEzine” for 5 US Dollars
a month. Order it each month and study the result of each and every
month of my research for the cause of our objectives.
Forward this message to other group members or friends of yours.
Help me with your comments to improve this E-Magazine.


The Last Word
If you do as I asked you to, I will be able to go on with this project.
My ultimate aim is to help all learn about Iranian culture,
civilization, identity and national values. These are the items
absolutely important to learn about the formation of many civilizations
in this part of the world.



Looking forward to hearing from you all soon,





Rahman Mehraby

======================================

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR·ET·SENATOR
TRIVMVIR·ACADEMIAE
LICTOR·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9753 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
Salve Gnaeus Salix,

> Scary, isn't it? :-). A little off topic (although the Romans always
< *loved* a good ghost story; ask Pliny the Elder).

<giggle> I certainly enjoyed your story & Calvus'. I'll do anything to make
chills run up my spine and to lie awake at night scared:-)
I'll post mine tomorrow. It is a bit sad though-- our family ghost is really
that-- a family member who died and kept visiting us for more than 30 years.

Vale!
Diana





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9754 From: julilla Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Latin translation
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "sa-mann@l..." <sa-mann@l...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, lanius117@a... wrote:

>
> "Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
> virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
> our web site.
>
> Ita est!
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna
>
>
> ITA EST NON!
>
>
> DEDICATVM RESTITVTIONI ROMANAE RELIGIONIS MORE MAIORVM STVDIORVM ET
VIRTVTIS.
>
>
> This is in my opinion the correct translation.
>
> Dedicta: it's feminine. It doesn't look like it should be connected
to anything feminine.
>
> Restituioni: clearly a misprint for Restitutioni.
>
> Classicae: it's a modern word Romans would have not used.
>
> Culturae: still a word not used with our meaning in Latin.
>
> Virtvtvm: in the plural means phisical strengths; you must keep it
in the singular.
>
> Reverenter
>
> Gallus Solaris Alexander
>
> Bononia

Gratias, it is always helpful for the Latin student to have
additional opportunities to learn... but is Nova Roma not feminine in
construction, and virtues not plural? In any case, I can well see
that your talents would be well used perusing and correcting the
Latin translation of the Nova Roma site; I cannot recall offhand who
wrote the first translation, but it's quite an opus.

bene vale,

JSM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9755 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus,
Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and all citizens and
peregrines, greetings.

First of all, thanks to you, Senator, for clarifying
your proposal on the matter of write-in options. That
makes two of the proposals which are in the air
computer-modellable (if that's a word).

Secondly, to your point, Rogator, about the importance
of the write-in option. I agree that it is important
for voters to be free to vote for none of the
available candidates, if none of them are to their
liking. I also, however, feel that it would be quite
unjust for the republic to force office upon someone
who has made the decision not to stand for that
office. This, of course, is what would happen if
someone won an election by write-in, unless the
elected person were given the choice of declining the
post, in which case the voters' protest-votes would
have been wasted and one of the other candidate would
get the job.

Is there any way to reconcile these two feelings? Yes,
there are actually two ways. The first, which I think
has in different words already been suggested (I
forget by whom) on the Plebeian list, is to include in
the ballot a candidate called 'none of the above'. In
fact in my university student union we call this
candidate 'RON' - 'Re-Open Nominations'. By voting for
RON, the voter can reject all the other candidates and
require nominations to be re-opened so that better
candidates can be persuaded - without being forced -
to step up. The problem with RON is that the principle
is not very clear to voters as they look at their
ballot paper, and consequently few people ever vote
for RON even if they don't like the other candidates.

The other way is the one contained in the Senior
Consul's proposal, which will, I believe, be published
soon. It is, in fact, the way Roman voting actually
happened in the ancient republic: rather than having
an 'either-or' choice from a list of candidates, the
voter is given the list and asked to say 'vti rogas'
('yes') or 'antiqvo' ('no') to *each* candidate. Thus
a voter who likes none of the candidates can say 'no'
to all of them, which is effectively the same as
voting for RON, but much easier to understand!

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9756 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Regarding website
-----Original Message-----
From : Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Regarding website
>
> nyarlathotep (FreeBSD) - mail, web, dns
> hastur (Linux (SuSE)) - dns, experimental web sites
>
>...and my home machines:
>
> yog-sothoth (Linux (RH)) - router & backup repository
> azathoth (Linux (RH)) - my primary desktop machine
> shub-niggurath (windows xp)
> dagon (windows 2000) - rarely used
>
I dread to think what they might do to Spammers! For the record, the place I put some time at (Connect Ireland) has Djelibebi, Magrat and Carrot which might be familiar to Discworld fans.

Sent by Another.com User: Jan le Blancq


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9757 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"

> Secondly, to your point, Rogator, about the importance
> of the write-in option. I agree that it is important
> for voters to be free to vote for none of the
> available candidates, if none of them are to their
> liking. I also, however, feel that it would be quite
> unjust for the republic to force office upon someone
> who has made the decision not to stand for that
> office.

Salve A. Apollonius Cordus,

I don't think anyone would have hard feelings on the very off chance
that if a write-in candidate won an election but declined the
office. The protest voters would have made their point and hopefully
the slate of candidates would get the idea that they are not to the
people's liking. In reality the only way a write in candidate could
win an election is a concerted campaign effort. What write-in
candidates can do in Nova Roma with the numbers in the tribes and
centuries being so small is block a candidate from taking a
tribe/century and thus throw a close election into a run-off.

Though I snipped the rest of your message for brevity, I must admit I
am intrigued with the potential proposal you describe. If the
proposal disallows for write-in candidates but it is approved by the
voters then that's what the voters wish. While I personally think
write-in candidates are an acceptable modern concession for voters to
be able to express discontent with the slate of candidates, I do
believe that endless rounds of run-offs is far more dangerous towards
creating voter apathy.

Oh, btw, Calvus works fine for me, I'm not all that big on titles and
tend to prefer a little more informality.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9758 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-16
Subject: Off again
Salvete omnes,

I'm off to the field to work for a few weeks. If we have internet
access at our site I'll keep in touch. Take care and keep out of
trouble!

Quintus L. Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9759 From: Brett Murphy Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Requesting Comments and Discussion....
Will Australia be included?

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9760 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Duke Papyrus Archive
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the Duke Papyrus Archive website:

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/papyrus/

The Duke University Papyrus Archive provides electronic access to over
1400 images and texts of papyri from Greek and Roman Egypt, as well as
essays on the palaeography, cataloguing, conservation, and
bibliography of the papyri. The "religious aspects" directory
contains many papyri relating to Paganism in Roman Egypt.

Valete, Quirites
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9761 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Latin translation
G. Iulius Scaurus Gallo Solari Alexandro salutem dicit

Salve, Galle Solaris.

> "Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
> virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
> our web site.
[immaterial material deleted]
> ITA EST NON!
>
>
> DEDICATVM RESTITVTIONI ROMANAE RELIGIONIS MORE MAIORVM STVDIORVM ET
VIRTVTIS.
>
>
> This is in my opinion the correct translation.
>
> Dedicta: it's feminine. It doesn't look like it should be connected
to anything feminine.

Roma is feminine and Nova Roma is what the past passive participle
modifies.

[more deletion]
> Classicae: it's a modern word Romans would have not used.

Actually Romans did use classicus, -um, -a to mean "of or pertaining
to the highest class," which is the sense in which "classical"
originally came into English. That value judgment was part of the way
by which "classical" came to refer to a chronological period. Antiqua
would probably be marginally better, but it doesn't also convey the
value judgment which classica does.

"Religionis Romanae" would follow the stylistic tendency of Latin
prose to place adjectives posterior to the nouns they modify, unless
you are emphasizing the specifically Roman character of the religio in
way that context doesn't already, or there's a metrical reason here
I'm not scanning.

> Culturae: still a word not used with our meaning in Latin.

I don't see what you mean by "more maiorum studiorum." Why the
ablative "more"? What you are translating -- "dedicated to the
restoration of classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues" --
doesn't contain anything that's particularly well rendered by any form
of "studium." Why not simply "moris mariorum," referring back to
restitutioni?

> Virtvtvm: in the plural means phisical strengths; you must keep it
in the singular.

This is not so. Cicero, Ovid, and Tacitus (those are instances I
recall just off the top of my head; a string search on plural forms of
virtus in the Latin text archives of the Perseus Project would no
doubt disclose more) use virtus in the plural in the sense of the
intrinsic excellences of a thing.

I think your suggestion of "mos maiorum" is a better translation of
"culture" than "cultura" (although Cicero and, if I recall correctly,
Virgil use "cultura animi," but that's not really on point), but on
the whole Julilla's translation is preferrable to the one you have
suggested.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9762 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Salve Illustrus Publius Tarquitius Rufus et salvete Quiriutes!

I hope that you all have seen that I have been occupied with "saving"
a young girl from taking her life. This explains why I have been away
from the main list for some time.

I also know that my Accensus Honorable A. Apollonius Cordus, on my
request have contacted You, Illustrus Publius Tarquitius Rufus, about
the fact that I am on my way to propose a law on this subject.

The fact is that my proposal includes some of your ideas Illustrus
Publius Tarquitius Rufus and more. It does also contains a kind of
"development ladder" for local groups. I will soon present this law
to the public and Comitia Populi Tributa, but at the moment it is in
my "Consilium Accensorum Magnorum" (CAM), (Council of Major
Assistants/Advisors) to get their ideas. Ihope to bring this law and
a couple of others to the Comitiae next month..

>Salve Senator Drusus!
>
>Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
>what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
>please:
>
>Lex Tarquitius Municipiae
>
>I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
>as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:
>
>1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
>THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a
>Municipia.
>
>1a. Recommend that the geographical boundary NOT cross provincial
>boundaries, and be within a 150KM from the central city of
>record/city of application.
>
>2. Applications for all Municipiae must be submitted to the Senate
>AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
>
>2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
>Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
>to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
>application, the Governor must forward the application and the
>reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
>acceptance.
>
>2b. All Municipiae awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
>Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate Approval is granted to the
>colony.
>
>3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Municipiae Council
>(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
>Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
>Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
>Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
>Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders
>
>4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.
>
>5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
>eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)
>
>6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
>Municipiae by the Providence's Governor.
>
>6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
>saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
>home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.
>
>7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
>reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
>required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
>Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
>its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
>a "Roman Rights Municipia".
>
>8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
>dues
>or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
>automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
>approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
>council, acceptance is automatic.
>
>9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
>council must meet monthly.
>
>10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor
>and Consuls quarterly.
>
>11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
>a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
>recommendations:
>
>1. Webmaster
>2. Quaestor
>3. Scribe (P/R man)
>4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
>approval)
>
>================================================================
>
>I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
>Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
>post on this, as I am here to learn!
>
>Publius Tarquitius Rufus
>Nova Roman Assudii 2003
>
>
>Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9763 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folk
Marcus Cornelius, I placed my replies below...just what I like, good
discussion on something pertenant to Nova Roma! In advance, thanks!
Publius Tarquitius Rufus


> >
> > Lex Tarquitius Municipiae
> >
> >
> Marcus Cornelius Felix replys:
> Greeting Sir.
> in your law you wish to do ( a copy is below my replys)
> #8:( so if there are 40 people in a city and 15 say lets form a
> Municipiae the other 25 have to go along with the 15?
*****No. The other 25 can form their own seperate organization if
they choose.Let's remember, I'm not making it mandatory you join a
colony, but putting in place a structure whereby members can get more
active and learn more about nova roma.

> #9: ok so you can make me a part of a group i may not want to join
> and order me to 4 meeting a year.
****See above. :-)

> #10 (a. and you can set money tax with out me voting on it?in a
> group i may not wish to join, but by this law i MUST join even if
> less then 50 % of people want to.AND {B.
> ok now if you do this in the state of oregon( subspart of USA)
> and you set a Due,tax,fee for a Municipiae in said state you get to
(
> BY state law ,file parerwork with the state as a corp(501(c)3 .
> and as a corp asking for money in the state and doing Biz in state.
(
> my lawery says youy should do this away)
***See above. :-) Remember this is a voluntary measure! But it DOES
allow Nova Roma to obtain a 5013-c measure in other states as a
subset of our main HQ.

> and 11.well I am Sacerdos Primus America Boreoccidentalis, so I
guess i get to do the approval from thing on any new Priest also..
all this is doing is makeing lots of work for people...we here in
America Boreoccidentalis have meeting we do not need a group Ordering
us to meeting(#9 in your law)
*****The "meeting" can be a social gathering where the elected
officers have a short discussion with the members of the colony
informing them of the finances, and news of the colony, and upcoming
events. This is an opportunity to get to know each other IN PERSON!
You have an opportunity to create lifelong friendships here...at
least that's how I see it. I mean if you don't want Nova Roma to grow
and flourish, or if work has you utterly swamped, then you can wait
until events in your life allow you the time to attend. And be
honest, is taking 4 days a year to see your new friends such a bad
thing? Not for me. :-)

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9764 From: William Rogers Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Requesting Comments and Discussion....
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Brett Murphy <aussiegent@y...>
wrote:
> Will Australia be included?
****It would be my hope the people there would want to form colonies,
so yes! :-)

P. Tarquitius Rufus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9765 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re:[Nova-Roma] Re: Latin translation
> "Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
> virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
> our web site.

> ITA EST NON!
>
>
> DEDICATVM RESTITVTIONI ROMANAE RELIGIONIS MORE MAIORVM STVDIORVM ET
VIRTVTIS.
>
>
> This is in my opinion the correct translation.
>
> Dedicta: it's feminine. It doesn't look like it should be connected
to anything feminine.

Roma is feminine and Nova Roma is what the past passive participle
modifies.


> Classicae: it's a modern word Romans would have not used.

Actually Romans did use classicus, -um, -a to mean "of or pertaining
to the highest class," which is the sense in which "classical"
originally came into English. That value judgment was part of the way
by which "classical" came to refer to a chronological period. Antiqua
would probably be marginally better, but it doesn't also convey the
value judgment which classica does.

GALLUS SOLARIS: it's even worse than you think. Classicus means originnally and ethimologically: pertaining to the ARMY. Secondly, means: pertaining to the NAVY.
Classicus as in modern "classic" DOES NOT exist in latin until GELLIVS: still, in Gellius means of the highest level. I like the idea of Roman citizen as SOLDIERS, but this is not the desired meaning.



"Religionis Romanae" would follow the stylistic tendency of Latin
prose to place adjectives posterior to the nouns they modify, unless
you are emphasizing the specifically Roman character of the religio in
way that context doesn't already, or there's a metrical reason here
I'm not scanning.

GALLUS SOLARIS: Yes indeed, I emphasize. It's necessary. Religion, in Latin, means: the cult of A divinity. To render what religion, and to render the national Religion of a folk, you have to put Romanae before. That is to say, we don't practice the Religion of Isis, she's foreign, of Artemis, she's foreign, of Jesus the Christ, he's foreign. This concerning the STATE of Nova Roma. In private, you can do what you like, as it's well known.

> Culturae: still a word not used with our meaning in Latin.

I don't see what you mean by "more maiorum studiorum." Why the
ablative "more"? What you are translating -- "dedicated to the
restoration of classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues" --
doesn't contain anything that's particularly well rendered by any form
of "studium." Why not simply "moris mariorum," referring back to
restitutioni?

GALLVS Solaris: You didn't grasp my sentence. Romana Religio More Maiorum: this means Clasic Religion. That is to say, Roman Religion as the custom on the ancients. More is in the ablative form as requested to translate "in the way of...".

CVLTVRA: in Latin means agriculture....It's true, in Latin we find it used by Cicero. But it's a kind "cultural" use of a word which is somehow confusing. STVDIA means "what you study", adding to the word the sense of careful love in order to learn.

> Virtvtvm: in the plural means phisical strengths; you must keep it
in the singular.

This is not so. Cicero, Ovid, and Tacitus (those are instances I
recall just off the top of my head; a string search on plural forms of
virtus in the Latin text archives of the Perseus Project would no
doubt disclose more) use virtus in the plural in the sense of the
intrinsic excellences of a thing.

GALLVS SOLARIS: Virtutes in in the plural has the general meaning of "Heroic deeds".
You point out a special and REALLY uncommon use of the word. The Roman ear listen to virtues as "bold actions: Tacitus, that you mention, is full of this use of the word.

I think your suggestion of "mos maiorum" is a better translation of
"culture" than "cultura" (although Cicero and, if I recall correctly,
Virgil use "cultura animi," but that's not really on point), but on
the whole Julilla's translation is preferrable to the one you have
suggested.

GALLVS SOLARIS: cultura animi is effectively used by Cicero, but does NOT mean "culture", means a kind of moral value. In Latin, if you want to say EDUCATED, you can't say CVLTVS, because it only refers to agriculture again, you have to say DOCTVS or ERVDITVS.
English people should not be misleaded by the Latin origin of an English word. Latin origin is misleading in Italian....think only of a German language, where Latin is a medieval smartness.

I didn't use commas, because Romans didn't.
With commas:

Dedicatum ( State is neutral to me, because I think of the Imperium which is embodied by the State, it's to be declined DEDICATA if you think of Res Publica) restitutioni: religionis Romanae more maiorum, studiorum et virtutis.


Reverenter atque Humiliter

Gallus Solaris Alexander

Bononia

ITALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9766 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Searching for Seneca online
Salvete, Help me, fellows! Do you know where I can find online Seneca´s treat ´De tranquilitati Animi´ - The Tranquility of the Soul? - On any language! Vale,L. Arminius Faustus


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espaço, antivírus, acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9767 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Searching for Seneca online
Salve,

Try this website:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/texts/seneca.english.html

Vale,

Gaius Lanius Falco
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9768 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: EDICTVM·PRAETORICIVM·DE·SCRIBAE·DESIGNATIONE
Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

EDICTVM·PRAETORICIVM·DE·SCRIBAE·DESIGNATIONE

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Salix
Astur, praetor, appoint the citizen Gaius Iulius Scaurus as Scriba with
the duty to aid the praetores in the creation of a legislative index
and codex for Nova Roma.

DATVM·A·D·XV·KAL·MAI·K·FABIO·QVINTILLIANO·T·LABIENO·FORTVNATO·COS
ANNO·MMDCCLVI·A·V·C

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR·ET·SENATOR
TRIVMVIR·ACADEMIAE
LICTOR·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9769 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Yes, this is just another Academia Announce (we never stop working here
at the Academia!). So you have my explicit permission to delete this
message if you are not interested at all in Roman culture :-).

After the disclaimer above (I have received a few complaints for these
messages), I will proceed :-).

It is a great pleasure for me to inform that the Academia is at full
speed! I would like you all to know that:

a) A new edition of our Basic Latin Course will be held pretty soon.
This course, imparted by Claudius Salix Davianus, from the University
of Barcelona, will teach you the basic things you need to know to speak
Latin. It is your opportunity to learn the language of our forefathers!
Subscription is already open. Visit the Academia web site at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and click on "Syllabus Cursuum".

b) You can still subscribe to the Basic Course about Nova Roma. If you
are a new citizen, this will be an excellent opportunity to learn more
about the organization and the history of our young Republic. Learn how
to take advantage of what Nova Roma has to offer!
Subscribe by visiting:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and clicking on "Syllabus Cursuum".

c) Our Basic Greek History Course begins on Monday, so you still have a
few days to subscribe to it. Remember that Greek history will give you
a general overview of the Roman world (which was mainly a Greek world).
Visit the Academia web site at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and click on "Syllabus Cursuum".

d) For those of you who can speak the language of Dante and Petrarca,
the Basic Nova Roma Course has now been translated to Italian. It is an
excellent opportunity for all our citizens from Italia, and your
subscription would certainly encourage *more* courses in Italian (and
in other langauges). Please subscribe at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
clicking on "Syllabus Cursuum".

e) The Academia web site can now be viewed in Italian and Finnish. If
you, like me, can not wait to see how "Academia web site" sounds in
Finnish [;-)], visit us at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

Well; that's all for now. With your permission, I will keep you
informed :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR·ET·SENATOR
TRIVMVIR·ACADEMIAE
LICTOR·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS
Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más...
http://messenger.yahoo.es
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9770 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Do you have the spam every list again. I thought this was resolved the last time.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Academia Thule ML ; America Boreoccidentalis ; Argentina PML ; Australia PML ; Brasil PML ; California et Nevada PML ; Canada Occidentalis PML ; Canada Orientalis PML ; Hispania PML ; Italia PML ; Nova Britannia PML ; Nova Roma Announce ML ; Nova Roma Europe ML ; Nova Roma ML ; Religio Romana ML ; Schola Latina ML ; Sodalitas Athletica ML ; Sodalitas Coqueror et Coquus ; Sodalitas Egressus ML ; Sodalitas Latinitatis ML ; Sodalitas Munerum ML ; Sodalitas Musarum ML ; Sodalitas Virtutis ML ; Thule PML ; Tresviri Academiae ; Venedia PML ; Vizantia PML
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE


Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Yes, this is just another Academia Announce (we never stop working here
at the Academia!). So you have my explicit permission to delete this
message if you are not interested at all in Roman culture :-).

After the disclaimer above (I have received a few complaints for these
messages), I will proceed :-).

It is a great pleasure for me to inform that the Academia is at full
speed! I would like you all to know that:

a) A new edition of our Basic Latin Course will be held pretty soon.
This course, imparted by Claudius Salix Davianus, from the University
of Barcelona, will teach you the basic things you need to know to speak
Latin. It is your opportunity to learn the language of our forefathers!
Subscription is already open. Visit the Academia web site at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and click on "Syllabus Cursuum".

b) You can still subscribe to the Basic Course about Nova Roma. If you
are a new citizen, this will be an excellent opportunity to learn more
about the organization and the history of our young Republic. Learn how
to take advantage of what Nova Roma has to offer!
Subscribe by visiting:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and clicking on "Syllabus Cursuum".

c) Our Basic Greek History Course begins on Monday, so you still have a
few days to subscribe to it. Remember that Greek history will give you
a general overview of the Roman world (which was mainly a Greek world).
Visit the Academia web site at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
and click on "Syllabus Cursuum".

d) For those of you who can speak the language of Dante and Petrarca,
the Basic Nova Roma Course has now been translated to Italian. It is an
excellent opportunity for all our citizens from Italia, and your
subscription would certainly encourage *more* courses in Italian (and
in other langauges). Please subscribe at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/
clicking on "Syllabus Cursuum".

e) The Academia web site can now be viewed in Italian and Finnish. If
you, like me, can not wait to see how "Academia web site" sounds in
Finnish [;-)], visit us at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules/

Well; that's all for now. With your permission, I will keep you
informed :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR·ET·SENATOR
TRIVMVIR·ACADEMIAE
LICTOR·CVRIATVS

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS
Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más...
http://messenger.yahoo.es

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9771 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: CEREALIA HISTORICAL TIME - Ceres, the Plebeain Goddess!!!
In summa,

I - Ceres and the Plebs

II -Ceres and Liminality

III - Ceres and Tellus





Ceres and the Plebs




"And likewise games were held and golden paterae placed at the temple of Ceres by the plebeian aediles L. Aelius Paetus and C Fulvius Curvus with the money from fines that they had collected from those convicted of [illegally] using public pasture." - Livy 10.23.13.

With the founding of the Republic in 500 BC, Ceres picked up a new association as the goddess of the plebeian class. They comprised the bulk of Rome's common citizens, and existed in opposition to the Roman aristocratic class, the patricians (Spaeth 6). The archives of the decrees of the Roman Senate and of the Concilium Plebes were stored in her temple by the plebeian aediles (85). The office of the tribune of the plebs was protected by Ceres directly. Anyone who harmed a tribune could be killed with impunity (Dumezil 195), and his goods consecrated to Ceres. The tribunes derived several other important powers from their association with the goddess. Among these were the right to protect plebs from patrician magistrates, ius auxilii, and the right to impede the action of any patrician magistrate, ius intercessionis. These two rights, sponsored by the goddess, helped make the tribune one of the strongest offices in the entire Roman government. The plebeian aediles may owe their very name to Ceres, as it may be derived from aedes Cereris, the Latin for "Temple of Ceres" (Spaeth 86). Fines levied by them were frequently presented to the goddess as gifts. Such fines were described by the legal term in sacram iudicare (90). At the beginning of the Cerealia, plebeian families typically invited each other to special banquets (92).

Several reasons for why Ceres was made goddess of the plebs have been suggested. One of the more convincing notes that her ancient associations with agriculture and fertility would have made her a commonly worshiped deity among Latin farmers. Another suggests that the Aventine Triad was to have grain importations as its focus, an association that would be compatible with Ceres' older associations with grain (9).

The patricians imported the cult of Magna Mater, or Cybele, explicitly so that their social class would have a goddess that served some of the functions that Ceres did for the plebeians. As a result, there was sharp antagonism between the two cults, who became rivals separated only by the social classes they served. The cult was imported from Pessinus in Asia Minor in 204 BCE, and welcomed into the city by a vir optimus, or best man, selected from one of the most distinguished patrician families. The matrons that escorted the goddess on the road from Ostia to Rome were entirely drawn from the patrician class. After the completion of Magna Mater's temple on the Palatine in 191 BCE, games were established in her honor in which patricians received special privileges and patrician families held banquets (92). Magna Mater's games, the ludi Megalenses, directly preceded the Cerialia and were celebrated by the curule aediles, who were drawn largely from the patrician class. The Palatine itself was a district largely associated with the patricians, and the temple of Ceres, Liber, and Libera on the Aventine directly faced the temple of Magna Mater that stood there (94).

The same year the temple of Magna Mater was dedicated, a new festival dedicated to Ceres was established. This festival was called the ieinium Cereris, and may have represented a plebeian response to the new patrician goddess. The festival lasted nine days and was originally held every five years (96), though it was held every year beginning on October 4 by the time of Augustus. In it, women fasted and offered the first wheat harvest to Ceres


Ceres and Liminality

One of the many spheres Ceres had influence over was liminality, boundaries and transitions between different stages of social life. This is a function she shared with Janus. The ritual of the mundus Cereris, for instance, was believed to break down the barriers between the world of the living and the world of the dead and thereby allow ghosts to roam the world. Spaeth suggests that the site of the ritual could be associated with the circular bothros in the Roman Forum. If true, this would indicate that the mundus Cereris was a ritual somehow tied to the very origins of Rome itself. She was also associated with divorce and marriage, and a torch was carried in her honor in wedding processions (Spaeth 5). The "law of Romulus" enumerated the three reasons for which a husband could legally divorce his wife, which included poisoning their children, counterfeiting his keys, and adultery. If he left her for any other reason, then half of his goods would be forfeit to his wife, and the other half consecrated to Ceres (Dumezil 376).

Many laws were associated with Ceres in her liminal aspect. The property of sancrosanctitas, the divine protection the tribune of the plebs was under, was part of Ceres' sphere of influence. So was the law that called for the punishment of anyone who attempted to set himself up as a tyrant. The goods and person of those executed for attempted tyranny were consecrated to Ceres (Spaeth 10). Many literary sources also associate her in general with the concept of law, order, and social tranquility (27). She even assimilated several minor goddesses who embodied the idea of social order. On a denarius from the period of the Civil Wars appear together the wheat stalks of Ceres, the caduceus of Pax the goddess of peace, and the clasped hands of Concordia the goddess of harmony (28).

The goddess also embodied the idea of castitas, or purity, especially as regards ritual purity and the sexual purity of women. As relates to women, sexual castitas or chastity takes on a liminal function. The violation of a woman's chastity forced her to cross a social boundary and leave her previous state of existence forever. To the Romans, the violation of chastity had great political, economic, and social significance (116).

Ceres and Tellus




"Let Tellus, fertile in fruits and herds, present Ceres with a crown of wheat stalks; let the healthy waters and breezes of Jupiter nourish the offspring." - Horace, Carm. Saec. 29- 32



Ceres was part of a special cult with the ancient Italic goddess Tellus, who personified the Earth. They shared an ancient feast day on December 13, which was associated with the end of the sowing season. The Feriae Sementivae, associated with the protection of seeded crops, honored both goddesses in the latter half of January. The festival of Tellus, the Fordicicia, was celebrated on April 15. The Cerealia occurred only four days later, an interval of time often used by the Romans to separate related festivals (Spaeth 5). Tellus was often mentioned alongside Ceres in early Roman funeral sacrifices. Through her association with Tellus, Ceres eclipsed her in the second century BCE and began to be associated directly with the Earth herself.

Even before this period, Ceres and Tellus were occasionally alleged to be one and the same. Tellus had some spheres of influence that were similar to Ceres'. For instance, it was customary to sacrifice a pregnant cow to Tellus as part of the wedding of a widow. While it was not specified to whom the sacrifice was dedicated, it was typical to sacrifice a pig at the beginning of a marriage, and the pig was the favorite victim of Ceres. Varro claimed the pig represented the untouched sexual organs of the bride, and the sacrifice the consummation of the marriage. This is consistent with what else is known about Ceres' role in fertility and liminality. The similarity of Tellus' and Ceres' roles in marriage and fertility indicates some sort of unusually close relationship (47).










(I hope that Yahoo do not merge all my text!)



Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Plebeian Aedile




POST - SCRIPTUM - QUICK AGENDA:

18th April - Last round (postponed) of the Gladiatorial Fight

- Finals of the Chariot Races

19th April - Ending of Cerealia

22th April - Deadline for judges of the Cerealia Literary Contest evaluating.

25th April - Deadline for the aediles announce the Cerelia Literary Contest 2756 Winners.





´I invite all novo romans join us on joy on public praiers to the goddess.´



---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9772 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
A. Apollonius to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I agree that the write-in option is better than
nothing, and the other possibilities are not hugely
superior, they just give voters the ability to cast a
protest vote which has a higher chance of actually
achieving the non-election of the candidates they
don't like, since as you say there's no hope with the
write-in system of securing the non-election of all
the candidates without having a coordinated campaign
for another particular person; whereas with the other
options there's simply an 'I don't like any of them'
option. It's not a big difference, but it's good that
you've mentioned it, as it was an aspect of the issue
that I hadn't thought very much about before.

I'm glad to hear that you're intrigued by the Consul's
proposal - I'm rather excited about it myself (which
is probably a stronger feeling than any sane person
should have about electoral reform!). I don't think a
date has yet been set for the publication, but it will
be quite soon I believe.

As for formality, I tend to err on the formal side
when speaking in the Forum, since it costs nothing and
can sometimes avoid misunderstandings, but thanks for
the dispensation. When in private conversation (which
this has virtually become, I think) I usually drop
into a more relaxed register. :)

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9773 From: curiobritannicus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Chariot Races Final!!!
Salvete omnes!

The final is upon us! Out of more than 20 excellent racing drivers,
we have found the four finalists who will be competing for the
championship of the Ludi Cerealia. The four cives whose chariots
have made it this far are cheered to their seats by the fans - Marcus
Octavius Germanicus, with his chariot B.S.D. Liber representing
Albata, along with his teammate Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa, who owns the
chariot Imperator Invictus. Representing Veneta is the chariot
Orionis Draco, owned by Titus Licinius Crassus. Marcus Minucius
Audens of Praesina owns the fourth chariot, Green Flash. So, with
these cives still basking in the applause. let the race begin!

************************FINAL********************

Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
factio: Albata
driver: Carolus Daemonicus
chariot: B.S.D. Liber
q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
fin tactic: pass closely the spina

Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
Factio: Veneta
Chariot: Orionis Draco
Driver: Equus Magnus
Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
Finals Strategy: (2)

Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pugio
Name of Chariot:Green Flash
Tactics: Hurry in last laps

Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Factio: Albata
Driver: Draco Borealis
Chariot: Imperator Invictus
Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)

So, we have the final four. This is the big moment, quirites! We
have fans of Albata, Praesina, and Veneta, all hoping this is their
moment. And maybe a few confused Russata fans as well, perhaps
disbelieving the fact that their mighty armada of chariots did not
reach the final. But there go the chariots! Green Flash hurries
ahead, and Audens curses Pugio's impetuosity in disobeying his
instructions. However, it seems to work, as only Orionis Draco is
able to keep up - both Imperator Invictus and B.S.D. Liber are left
far behind. Imperator Invictus attempts to push B.S.D. Liber against
the circus walls, but Carolus Daemonicus avoids this skillfully.
Meanwhile, Orionis Draco is slowly catching up with Green Flash by
cutting corners wherever possible. And then, they are neck and neck,
with Green Flash on the inner track, hoping this will knock enough
seconds off its time to gain the advantage over Orionis Draco.
Meanwhile, Imperator Invictus surges ahead of B.S.D. Liber, giving up
trying to destroy the expert Daemonicus. But look what's happening
ahead! Orionis Draco has moved inwards, knowing that his tactics
will be impossible to use unless he's on the inside. But Pugio
bravely refuses to move, and Orionis Draco, infuriated, moves in
further, soon colliding with Green Flash. Green Flash is thrown
against the walls, where Pugio sustains a small bump to the head,
forgetting the entire race. Orionis Draco, on the other hand, has
its wheel broken, and also comes to a halt. Imperator Invictus
speeds past the two unlucky drivers, with B.S.D. Liber not far
behind. B.S.D. Liber draws up beside Imperator Invictus, but is
forced to fall back when Imperator Invictus also moves inwards,
threatening to give B.S.D. Liber the same fate as Green Flash! They
continue battling for position, but its too late for B.S.D. Liber as
Imperator Invictus crossed the finish line, followed only 2 seconds
later by B.S.D. Liber.

Winner: Imperator Invictus
2nd: B.S.D. Liber
3rd: Accident!
4th: Accident!

We have our winner! The champion of the Ludi Cerealia Chariot Races
is Imperator Invictus, driven by Draco Borealis and owned by Gaius
Vipsanius Agrippa. This truly is a time of strength for the Albata
factio! Congratulations, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa!

Many thanks for watching the races of the Ludi Cerealia, and enjoy
the rest of the Ludi!

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9774 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Oath as Scriba
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

In accordance with the Edictum Consulare Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
III de Iusiurando Apparitorum I proffer the following oath upon
appointment by Gnaeus Salix Astur Praetor as Scriba:

I, Gaius Iulius Scaurus, do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor
of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of Gnaeus Salix
Astur Praetor while I hold this office, except when such action would
be illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Gaius Iulius Scaurus, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
Responsibilities of the office of Scriba to the best of my Abilities
while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Gaius Iulius Scaurus, swear to give faithful service to my
magistrate, and not to divulge any information discussed in
confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of my
magistrate.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Scriba with all the privileges, obligations,
and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9775 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: Latin translation
G. Iulius Scaurus Gallo Solari Alexandro salutem dicit.

Salve, Galle Solaris.

Since our fellow citizens aren't demanding that we move this to
Latinitas :-), I have a few comments in response to your remarks here.
I apologise for all the embedded quotes, but it clarifies some of the
issues we're discussing for those who haven't followed the whole
series of exchanges. I have also adopted below your style in
prefixing my name in capitals to my comments to make who is saying
what clearer to the reader.

>>>> "Dedicata restituioni Relgionis Romanae Classicae, culturae, atque
>>>>virtutum," which, by the way, you can read on the Latin version of
>>>> our web site.

>>> ITA EST NON!
>>>
>>>
>>>DEDICATVM RESTITVTIONI ROMANAE RELIGIONIS MORE MAIORVM STVDIORVM ET
>>>VIRTVTIS.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is in my opinion the correct translation.
>>>
>>>Dedicta: it's feminine. It doesn't look like it should be connected
>>>to anything feminine.

>>Roma is feminine and Nova Roma is what the past passive participle
modifies.

>>> Classicae: it's a modern word Romans would have not used.

>>Actually Romans did use classicus, -um, -a to mean "of or pertaining
>>to the highest class," which is the sense in which "classical"
>>originally came into English. That value judgment was part of the way
>>by which "classical" came to refer to a chronological period. Antiqua
>>would probably be marginally better, but it doesn't also convey the
>>value judgment which classica does.

>GALLUS SOLARIS: it's even worse than you think. Classicus means
originnally and
>ethimologically: pertaining to the ARMY. Secondly, means: pertaining
to the
>NAVY.
>Classicus as in modern "classic" DOES NOT exist in latin until GELLIVS:
>still, in Gellius means of the highest level. I like the idea of
Roman citizen
>as SOLDIERS, but this is not the desired meaning.

G. IULIUS: I don't see why you reject Aulus Gellius' Noctes Atticae
as providing a valid meaning; he's just a generation younger than
Suetonius. I think we have different views on the nature of the Latin
language and translation theory. Yes, the use of "classicus" in
Gellius' sense is not attested before the mid-second century C.E. I
see Latin as a living language through late classical antiquity and
through the middle ages. Still, even if you believe that NR Latin
vocabulary should be restricted to only the Antonines or earlier,
Gellius still qualifies as a source. If you shift the boundary of
acceptable sources for NR Latin vocabulary much earlier, we lose
Suetonius and Tacitus as sources. Should NR only use vocabulary
attested in sources before Actium? The rejection of Gellius seems
very arbitrary to me. I happen prefer "antiquae" to "classicae" for
reasons I outline below, but I recognize that other theories of
translation place more emphasis on finding etymological resonances
between the languages being translated and, thus, do not reject out of
hand the translation proposed by Julilla; nor do I reject yours out of
hand. I simply
think that Julilla's (with a few suggestions I've proffered) conveys
more of sense of the English into Latin.

>>"Religionis Romanae" would follow the stylistic tendency of Latin
>>prose to place adjectives posterior to the nouns they modify, unless
>>you are emphasizing the specifically Roman character of the religio in
>>way that context doesn't already, or there's a metrical reason here
>>I'm not scanning.

>GALLUS SOLARIS: Yes indeed, I emphasize. It's necessary. Religion, in
Latin,
>means: the cult of A divinity. To render what religion, and to render the
>national Religion of a folk, you have to put Romanae before. That is
to say, we
>don't practice the Religion of Isis, she's foreign, of Artemis, she's
foreign,
>of Jesus the Christ, he's foreign. This concerning the STATE of Nova
Roma. In
>private, you can do what you like, as it's well known.

>>> Culturae: still a word not used with our meaning in Latin.

>>I don't see what you mean by "more maiorum studiorum." Why the
>>ablative "more"? What you are translating -- "dedicated to the
>>restoration of classical Roman religion, culture, and virtues" --
>>doesn't contain anything that's particularly well rendered by any form
>>of "studium." Why not simply "moris mariorum," referring back to
>>restitutioni?

>GALLVS Solaris: You didn't grasp my sentence. Romana Religio More
Maiorum: this
>means Clasic Religion. That is to say, Roman Religion as the custom
on the
>ancients. More is in the ablative form as requested to translate "in
the way
>of...".
>
>CVLTVRA: in Latin means agriculture....It's true, in Latin we find it
used by
>Cicero. But it's a kind "cultural" use of a word which is somehow
confusing.
>STVDIA means "what you study", adding to the word the sense of
careful love in
>order to learn.

G. IULIUS: There are two problems here. First, in NR Religio Romana
is a technical term which means "the religion of the mos mairoum."
That is partly why I didn't recognized the ablative of specification
(the other was your use of studia for "culture"). Second, "classical"
in English is being used to specify chronological status (as well as
the implied value judgment), so that the English presupposes a
distinction between modern Rome and Rome of the classical period; I
think that the adjective "antiqua" conveys the
distinction that the English is making better than the "more maiorum"
construct does.

>>>Virtvtvm: in the plural means phisical strengths; you must keep it
>>>in the singular.

>>This is not so. Cicero, Ovid, and Tacitus (those are instances I
>>ecall just off the top of my head; a string search on plural forms of
>>virtus in the Latin text archives of the Perseus Project would no
>>doubt disclose more) use virtus in the plural in the sense of the
>>intrinsic excellences of a thing.

>GALLVS SOLARIS: Virtutes in in the plural has the general meaning of
"Heroic
>deeds".
>You point out a special and REALLY uncommon use of the word. The
Roman ear
>listen to virtues as "bold actions: Tacitus, that you mention, is
full of this
>use of the word.

G. IULIUS: There are several ways in which to look at this. First, I
think that "bold action" is a Roman virtue. I shall have to take a
close look at my copies of Tacitus, since I think that virtus is used
in the plural to mean more than simply "bold actions" there. In any
case, there are other translation strategies. One is to extend the
vocabulary field to mid-second-century C.E. and later, mainly
Christian, sources which use "virtutes" in the sense of "virtues" in
English and which translate the Greek "aretai" as "virtutes." There
are also a few examples of Golden and Silver period translations of
"aretai" as
"virtutes" in philosophical texts, but there are also cases where
"aretai" is translated as "bonitates" or "mores." I don't dispute
that "virtus" in the singular can refer to a "set of virtues" in
Classical usage; I am merely suggesting that the translation of
"aretai" by "virtutes" in philosophical texts argues that there were
circumstances similar to the English
sense of virtues as "good moral qualities" where Greek-Latin
bilinguals thought it appropriate.

>>I think your suggestion of "mos maiorum" is a better translation of
>>"culture" than "cultura" (although Cicero and, if I recall correctly,
>>Virgil use "cultura animi," but that's not really on point), but on
>>the whole Julilla's translation is preferrable to the one you have
>>suggested.

>GALLVS SOLARIS: cultura animi is effectively used by Cicero, but does
NOT mean
>"culture", means a kind of moral value. In Latin, if you want to say
EDUCATED,
>you can't say CVLTVS, because it only refers to agriculture again,
you have to
>say DOCTVS or ERVDITVS.
>English people should not be misleaded by the Latin origin of an
English word.
>Latin origin is misleading in Italian....think only of a German
language, where
>Latin is a medieval smartness.

G. IULIUS: I stated that the Ciceronian example of "cultura animi" was
_not_ on point. However, I think that the use of "studia" to
translate the English word "culture" is even more off point. I think
that you are misunderstanding the meaning of the English word
"culture." The English word "culture" in the instant case means more
"way of life, customs" than "something we study," although people do
study various cultures. Thus "culture" is better translated as "mos
maiorum" or "consuetudines." This was one issue on which I concurred
that Julilla's translation did not hit the mark.

>I didn't use commas, because Romans didn't.
>With commas:

>Dedicatum ( State is neutral to me, because I think of the Imperium
which is
>embodied by the State, it's to be declined DEDICATA if you think of Res
>Publica) restitutioni: religionis Romanae more maiorum, studiorum et
virtutis.

G. IULIUS: No need for commas :-). I don't think one needs to
hypothesize "imperium" or "res publica" as the past passive
participle's governing noun, since the original post specified Nova
Roma which is feminine and, therefore, requires "dedicata."

Vale bene.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9776 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Hmmmmm! I guess that I see anything wrong with making Academia
Announcements. Personally I welcome these annoncements to Militarium
and Egressus. My reasoning for doing so is simply that there are people
in NR who are totally disgusted with the Main LIst material, but who
have stayed with a favorite Sodalitas.

I don't think anyone knows how many of those people there are, and maing
an annoucement to all Sodalitas within NR seems like a reasonable way to
accomplish letting "everyone" know what is going on.

There are those in Nova Roma of course who are dead set against the
Academia, for whatever reason. However, everyone has thier preferred
topics.

I can remember when I have been told in the past, if I didn't like
something on the Main List "simply use the delete key."

In regard to the other related NR Lists, it is easy enough to close a
Sodaltas Weblist to any unwanted or unapproved E-Mail, certainly easier
than continuing to complain about it. For my part, I am pleased to
welcome announcements from the Academia to Militarium and Egressus, and
I, in addition congratulate the Academia Triumvirs for all of thier hard
work, and the energy with which they pursue the advertisement of the
Academia and it's offerings.

In passing I was not aware that "anything had been settled" at any time
in this regard. Had I thought so, I would have spoken up earlier.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9777 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus Date: 2003-04-17
Subject: Not far away afterall!
Salvete omnes,

Alas I have high speed internet in my office at our remote drilling
location in our North West Territories. The wonders of satillites!
The barbarian wilderness becomes easier to handle these days! I can
keep in touch with NR while away. You can get me over the next few
weeks at miguelkelly15@...

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9778 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE
Ave Senator,

Its spam.

I do not mind receiving the notification on the ML, and the announce list..and even a sodalitas list (if it is appropriate) but to have citizens receive 10 copies of the same message makes the sender a spammer. And it violates many ISP service agreements/terms of service.

Senator Gn. Salix sent his post to 27 lists. That is excessive and I would not be surprised if he has been reported to violating the terms of not only Yahoogroups but to the company who gave him his email address (which is yahoo) as well.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: MarcusAudens@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ACADEMIA·ANNOUNCE


Hmmmmm! I guess that I see anything wrong with making Academia
Announcements. Personally I welcome these annoncements to Militarium
and Egressus. My reasoning for doing so is simply that there are people
in NR who are totally disgusted with the Main LIst material, but who
have stayed with a favorite Sodalitas.

I don't think anyone knows how many of those people there are, and maing
an annoucement to all Sodalitas within NR seems like a reasonable way to
accomplish letting "everyone" know what is going on.

There are those in Nova Roma of course who are dead set against the
Academia, for whatever reason. However, everyone has thier preferred
topics.

I can remember when I have been told in the past, if I didn't like
something on the Main List "simply use the delete key."

In regard to the other related NR Lists, it is easy enough to close a
Sodaltas Weblist to any unwanted or unapproved E-Mail, certainly easier
than continuing to complain about it. For my part, I am pleased to
welcome announcements from the Academia to Militarium and Egressus, and
I, in addition congratulate the Academia Triumvirs for all of thier hard
work, and the energy with which they pursue the advertisement of the
Academia and it's offerings.

In passing I was not aware that "anything had been settled" at any time
in this regard. Had I thought so, I would have spoken up earlier.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9779 From: Rob Sullivan Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Chariot Races Final!!!
Savales, Congratulations to Imperator Invictus and Factio Albata. My apollogies to Factio Veneta, as I retire to the stable to repair Orionis Draco, reinforce the wheels and discuss proper tactics with Equus Magnus. The races were exciting and fun. Again, congratulations to Factio Albata. We'll see you at the next Ludi. Viva Veneta!!! vale,Titus Licinius Crassus

curiobritannicus <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes!

The final is upon us! Out of more than 20 excellent racing drivers,
we have found the four finalists who will be competing for the
championship of the Ludi Cerealia. The four cives whose chariots
have made it this far are cheered to their seats by the fans - Marcus
Octavius Germanicus, with his chariot B.S.D. Liber representing
Albata, along with his teammate Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa, who owns the
chariot Imperator Invictus. Representing Veneta is the chariot
Orionis Draco, owned by Titus Licinius Crassus. Marcus Minucius
Audens of Praesina owns the fourth chariot, Green Flash. So, with
these cives still basking in the applause. let the race begin!

************************FINAL********************

Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
factio: Albata
driver: Carolus Daemonicus
chariot: B.S.D. Liber
q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
fin tactic: pass closely the spina

Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
Factio: Veneta
Chariot: Orionis Draco
Driver: Equus Magnus
Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
Finals Strategy: (2)

Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pugio
Name of Chariot:Green Flash
Tactics: Hurry in last laps

Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Factio: Albata
Driver: Draco Borealis
Chariot: Imperator Invictus
Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)

So, we have the final four. This is the big moment, quirites! We
have fans of Albata, Praesina, and Veneta, all hoping this is their
moment. And maybe a few confused Russata fans as well, perhaps
disbelieving the fact that their mighty armada of chariots did not
reach the final. But there go the chariots! Green Flash hurries
ahead, and Audens curses Pugio's impetuosity in disobeying his
instructions. However, it seems to work, as only Orionis Draco is
able to keep up - both Imperator Invictus and B.S.D. Liber are left
far behind. Imperator Invictus attempts to push B.S.D. Liber against
the circus walls, but Carolus Daemonicus avoids this skillfully.
Meanwhile, Orionis Draco is slowly catching up with Green Flash by
cutting corners wherever possible. And then, they are neck and neck,
with Green Flash on the inner track, hoping this will knock enough
seconds off its time to gain the advantage over Orionis Draco.
Meanwhile, Imperator Invictus surges ahead of B.S.D. Liber, giving up
trying to destroy the expert Daemonicus. But look what's happening
ahead! Orionis Draco has moved inwards, knowing that his tactics
will be impossible to use unless he's on the inside. But Pugio
bravely refuses to move, and Orionis Draco, infuriated, moves in
further, soon colliding with Green Flash. Green Flash is thrown
against the walls, where Pugio sustains a small bump to the head,
forgetting the entire race. Orionis Draco, on the other hand, has
its wheel broken, and also comes to a halt. Imperator Invictus
speeds past the two unlucky drivers, with B.S.D. Liber not far
behind. B.S.D. Liber draws up beside Imperator Invictus, but is
forced to fall back when Imperator Invictus also moves inwards,
threatening to give B.S.D. Liber the same fate as Green Flash! They
continue battling for position, but its too late for B.S.D. Liber as
Imperator Invictus crossed the finish line, followed only 2 seconds
later by B.S.D. Liber.

Winner: Imperator Invictus
2nd: B.S.D. Liber
3rd: Accident!
4th: Accident!

We have our winner! The champion of the Ludi Cerealia Chariot Races
is Imperator Invictus, driven by Draco Borealis and owned by Gaius
Vipsanius Agrippa. This truly is a time of strength for the Albata
factio! Congratulations, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa!

Many thanks for watching the races of the Ludi Cerealia, and enjoy
the rest of the Ludi!

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9780 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Abbreviations in Latin Inscriptions
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Abbreviations in Latin Inscriptions" website:

http://asgle.classics.unc.edu/abbrev/latin/

This site, created by Tom Elliott at Univ. of North Carolina, is
extremely useful for deciphering the abbreviations frequently used in
Roman inscriptions and includes two lists of abbreviations (one the
most common ones used in Latin inscriptions published in _L'AnnÂŽe
ƒpigraphique_, 1888-1993, the other all the abbreviations in _L'AnnŽe
ƒpigraphique_ in the same period) as well as a methodological essay.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9781 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
G. Iulius Scaurus
Thank you for that,and the Vet's you are talking about
were they the POW's that we tried to retrieve but
failed?

G.P.Brutis
--- Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus Lucio Equitio Cincinnato Auguri
> salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Luci Equiti Augur.
>
> The National Museum of Iraq is located on the border
> between the
> relatively upscale Karkh neighborhood and the slums
> of Saddam City.
> There is no question that the overwhelming majority
> of the looters
> were impoverished Shi'is from Saddam City (although
> there is some
> evidence now appearing that professionals in the
> employ of foreign art
> collectors may have had a role in some of the thefts
> and took care to
> destroy museum records to impede any future legal
> action taken against
> recipients of stolen antiquities on the black
> market). Some of the
> sheer nihilistic destruction, e.g., the smashing of
> pottery shards
> used for typological dating in the museum workshops
> and the defacing
> of monumental sculptures too large and heavy to be
> removed easily from
> the building, suggests that some were simply
> striking out at anything
> that might have been a symbol of the Ba'athist
> regime. After all,
> Iraq's internal propaganda has for years portrayed
> Saddam as the
> embodiment of Mesopotamia's former glory in Sargon
> I, Hammurabi,
> Nebuchadnezzar, etc. (that units of the Republican
> Guard bore those
> names is not accidental).
>
> The sense in which the United States bears
> responsibility is the fact
> that the U.S. government assured American and
> international scholars,
> whose expertise it sought to map sites of
> archaeological and cultural
> importance before the war, that the National Museum
> of Iraq would be
> protected against the looting which experts
> predicted would follow the
> fall of Saddam and his government. Specifically, I
> know for a fact
> (by virtue of knowing some of scholars involved)
> that Donald Rumsfeld
> gave his personal assurance to a delegation of
> American scholars that
> guards would be dispatched to the National Museum of
> Iraq the moment
> coalition forces reached Baghdad. U.S. forces were
> in the vicinity of
> the museum as early as last Monday (we know this
> from journalists who
> were embedded with those forces). The museum was
> looted on Wednesday
> and Thursday.
>
> The U.S. is not a signatory to the 1954 Hague
> Convention and,
> therefore, is not obligated to observe it. However,
> I do not think it
> unreasonable to expect the responsible cabinet
> officer, speaking on
> behalf of the U.S. government, to keep his word
> given to American
> citizens that the museum would be protected. From
> the nonchalant
> response of Rumsfeld to news of the looting I
> conclude that he is a
> man without honour whose conduct has brought
> disgrace on the nation
> whose armed forces he directs. As a Vietnam veteran
> I am personally
> acquainted with officials of my government lying to
> the American
> people (e.g., at a time when the government was
> assuring Americans and
> the rest of the world that no U.S. troops were in
> Laos, I knew damned
> well that we had troops in Laos because I helped
> draft their
> operations orders in country). I had hoped things
> had changed, but
> Secretary Rumsfeld has proven me wrong.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9782 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
Manius Villius Limitanus
My Friend
There is no fact that there was large numbers of items
destroyed, BUT if one item is destroyed than it is a
horrible thing and those who did this shall be hunted
down.

On to something else.....
Please Limitanus do not make this war in to a
Religious war. This does nothing than to show
stupidity and breeds hate. I only wish that people
would not try to make this in to a Religious war and
choose to persecute those who are over there right
now.
I am a Christian/Jew "and not the only one" that will
never push any of you whom worships other Gods down
for your believes!
To think that over time there have been things said
here that did nothing but to bring others down.

I am one who was glad to see that others would under
go great heights to learn about there Gods,"as a child
I was a believer in Odin and Thor". I only ask that we
see each other in our shoes and not try to under-mind
this.
If you say your are for peace, than clean your own
heart, let not your feelings for others be based on
Religion.
I say if you want to hate someone like myself than
hate because I'm such a big mouth and a total
butt-head, and not for there believes.

TO all other Nova Romans
Please forgive me I'm on DRUGS.........Just Joking....
But I'm sorry I had to get that off my chest.


May the Gods bless us
G.P.Brutis



--- Michel Loos <loos@...> wrote:
> Em Seg, 2003-04-14 �s 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus
> escreveu:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos
> <loos@q...> wrote:
> >
> > > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4
> Article 15.
> > > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil
> Wars.
> > >
> > > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Again, the United States and Great Britain are not
> signatuary nations
> > to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and
> are under no
> > International legal obligation to prevent the
> looting of the Iraqi
> > museum. It only legally obligates those nations
> who are signatuaries
> > to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier
> a list of the
> > signatuary nations which includes amongst others
> Iraq. So if there
> > was a war crime committed it was committed by the
> Iraqi looters in a
> > form of civil insurrection.
> >
>
> I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to
> somebody that asked
> for references.
>
> Unfortunately, international laws are still nation
> based instead of
> humankind based.
>
> > Does the United States and Britain have a moral
> obligation to do
> > something about the looting? Yes, they certainly
> do. The best thing
> > to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted
> antiquities as
> > possible. Given that currently the troops of
> Great Britain and the
> > United States are equiped for combat, not crowd
> control (except in
> > China where tank treads are considered an
> acceptable form of crowd
> > control) any intervention by coalition forces
> would have made matters
> > even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting
> (I don't condone
> > the looting) there would be screams to high heaven
> about the
> > slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be
> recovered with time
> > and effort, human lives can not. The failure to
> inverene in the
> > looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two
> evils.
> >
>
> Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to
> recover them.
> The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to
> make war, specially
> imperialistic and religious wars.
>
> For the people that think that this is an anti-US
> position, check the
> archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@...>
>
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9783 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Anti-U.S.
Well said.


--- jmath669642reng@... wrote:
> Unfortunately I must disagree that Master Loos "has
> reched the bottom"
> of his anti-U.S. tirade.
>
> In very similar fashion to the arab news agencies
> around the the
> Mid-East, anything that the U.S. does it will be
> seen, by him, in a
> negative light:
>
> --Freeing Iraq from the grip of a dictator --
> Colonizing the Country /
> stealing it's oil;
>
> --Bringing food, water and medicine to one time
> enemies -- didn't happen
> soon enough;
>
> --Helping wounded enemy soldiers -- staging a untrue
> scene;
>
> As in the above examples no matter what the U.S.
> does, there will be
> those who will see and attack that part of the
> action which can be
> questioned or in any way be suspect or criticized.
>
> Master Loos is one NR Citizen whose messages I
> delete first as his
> anti-U.S. feelings come through in nearly every one
> of his posts (Bagdad
> Bob comes to mind). Since his views are often in
> error, (Much like
> B.B.) I see no value in reading them.
>
> In regard to some others on this list, who have
> provided detailed and
> interesting infrmation for consideration, I am
> willing to listen to
> thier comments even though they may not be
> flattering, but in the former
> case, I anticipate no diminishing of the anti-U.S.
> word flow, and since
> no information worthy of the name accompanies such
> feeling from Master
> Loos, his comments for my part constitute a waste of
> my valuable time.
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9784 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Roman Concrete
G. Iulius Scaurus
Have you heard of anything on the Egyptian? using a
form of concrete?
G.P.Brutis


--- Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
>
> Avete, Quirites.
>
> Here's a link to the "Roman Pantheon: The Triumph of
> Concrete" website:
>
> http://www.romanconcrete.com/
>
> The site's creator is David Moore, a professional
> engineer with
> serious interests in how Roman concrete was
> manufactured and used in
> Roman construction. It is clear that Mr. Moore has
> a fixation on
> concrete, but his professionalism, scientific
> training, and dedication
> to understanding this vital Roman construction
> material is outstanding.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 9785 From: G.Porticus Brutis Date: 2003-04-18
Subject: Re: Off again
Be careful My friend and a safe journey.
We shall keep you in our prayers and above all have
fun....or as much fun as you can have at work..LOL
Brutis
--- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I'm off to the field to work for a few weeks. If we
> have internet
> access at our site I'll keep in touch. Take care and
> keep out of
> trouble!
>
> Quintus L. Paulinus
>
>


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