> Salvete omnes,
>
> I'm off to the field to work for a few weeks. If we
> have internet
> access at our site I'll keep in touch. Take care and
> keep out of
> trouble!
>
> Quintus L. Paulinus
>
>

> Have you heard of anything on the Egyptian? using a
> form of concrete?
> G.P.Brutis

>
>On to something else.....
>Please Limitanus do not make this war in to a
>Religious war. This does nothing than to show
>stupidity and breeds hate. I only wish that people
>would not try to make this in to a Religious war and
>choose to persecute those who are over there right
>now.
>

> G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, G. Portice.
>
> I was not referring to POW's or MIA's. I was
> referring to Special
> Forces operators leading indigenous tribal militias
> in Laos. I was an
> staff intelligence officer who helped choose targets
> and draft
> portions of the operations orders for U.S. Army
> personnel operating in
> Laos. At the time it was interesting to note that
> Nixon or Laird were
> blarring on Armed Forces Radio the denials that we
> had any personnel
> in Laos while I typed ops orders directing the
> officially non-existent
> American troops to conduct operations in Laos
> (where, of course, there
> were no American forces). If they weren't in Laos
> they wouldn't need
> the detailed map coordinates on their orders (and I
> vividly remember
> the SPC-4 who went back to PVT when he mistyped
> coordinates in an op
> order that put a team four grid squares away from
> their planned
> insertion and onto an entirely different mapsheet).
> And I've yet to
> meet a Hmong who could speak American Black Dialect
> English with a
> deep Alabama drawl, peppered with obscenities
> referring to members of
> his local draft board -- so when I heard the call
> over the radio at
> the ops shack about "contact" and the "need to get a
> mutterfuking
> dustoff" with coordinates over the border about six
> kilometers,
> followed by comments about the sex lives,
> preferences in dogs to
> sodomize, etc., of leading citizens of Birmingham, I
> assumed it was
> SGT Ford, not one of his Hmong associates :-).
>
> Vale in pace Deorum.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>

> G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, G. Portice.
>
> > Have you heard of anything on the Egyptian? using
> a
> > form of concrete?
> > G.P.Brutis
>
> I am neither an engineer nor an Egyptologist, so I
> don't have an
> answer for you. I do however have some friends in
> Egyptology and
> Egyptian archaeology and am happy to ask them about
> it.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>

> Salvete omnes,
>
> Alas I have high speed internet in my office at our
> remote drilling
> location in our North West Territories. The wonders
> of satillites!
> The barbarian wilderness becomes easier to handle
> these days! I can
> keep in touch with NR while away. You can get me
> over the next few
> weeks at miguelkelly15@...
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From : �G.Porticus Brutis� <celtic4usa@...>
> Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing
> at the National Museum of Iraq
> >
> >On to something else.....
> >Please Limitanus do not make this war in to a
> >Religious war. This does nothing than to show
> >stupidity and breeds hate. I only wish that people
> >would not try to make this in to a Religious war
> and
> >choose to persecute those who are over there right
> >now.
> >
> It rather looks as if one faction in Baghdad is on
> the streets already trying to make their own
> religious war for an Islamic Republic. Whatever else
> Saddam did, Iraq is a secular 'western' society so
> they look like just the kind of trouble which could
> lead to a longer Occupation (and perhaps is intended
> to) to prevent them from making a minority coup.
>
> Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Thank you
> I just thought you might have been speaking about
> the
> POW snatch and grab OP. into Vietnam, that failed
> because of the News.
> A good friend of mine was almost killed trying to
> retrieve them.
> You have enlightened me to this Operation.
> G.P.Brutis
>
>
> --- Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
> > G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
> >
> > Salve, G. Portice.
> >
> > I was not referring to POW's or MIA's. I was
> > referring to Special
> > Forces operators leading indigenous tribal
> militias
> > in Laos. I was an
> > staff intelligence officer who helped choose
> targets
> > and draft
> > portions of the operations orders for U.S. Army
> > personnel operating in
> > Laos. At the time it was interesting to note that
> > Nixon or Laird were
> > blarring on Armed Forces Radio the denials that we
> > had any personnel
> > in Laos while I typed ops orders directing the
> > officially non-existent
> > American troops to conduct operations in Laos
> > (where, of course, there
> > were no American forces). If they weren't in Laos
> > they wouldn't need
> > the detailed map coordinates on their orders (and
> I
> > vividly remember
> > the SPC-4 who went back to PVT when he mistyped
> > coordinates in an op
> > order that put a team four grid squares away from
> > their planned
> > insertion and onto an entirely different
> mapsheet).
> > And I've yet to
> > meet a Hmong who could speak American Black
> Dialect
> > English with a
> > deep Alabama drawl, peppered with obscenities
> > referring to members of
> > his local draft board -- so when I heard the call
> > over the radio at
> > the ops shack about "contact" and the "need to get
> a
> > mutterfuking
> > dustoff" with coordinates over the border about
> six
> > kilometers,
> > followed by comments about the sex lives,
> > preferences in dogs to
> > sodomize, etc., of leading citizens of Birmingham,
> I
> > assumed it was
> > SGT Ford, not one of his Hmong associates :-).
> >
> > Vale in pace Deorum.
> >
> > G. Iulius Scaurus
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com
>

> Quintus
> Good job you have there!
> Tell me how good it is, I may have to switch to
> satillite.
> A good Easter to you my friend, wish your family my
> best.
> Brutis
> --- Quintus Lanius Paulinus <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
>

> http://www.freewebs.com/imperiumromanorum/

>Thank you for the help in this.
>I heard of a woman Egyptian archaeology who believes
>that the Great Pyramids was built out of a formed
>concrete.She said that it was lost to the world.Could
>

>You are to right, and here I was looking to get my
>hands on a few bits of land on that Big O' river. Now
>that just chaps me...
>Or maybe one of those palaces, with the nice spray
>painted gold floors,tub,sink and almost everything in
>the house “YES EVEN THE DOGS, Now thats COOL“!!!
>

> As somebody remarked last night in a question & answer programme, the bloody
> obvious we all forget, if the US/UK wish to ignore the UN and rest of the
> world to get a slice of action on Iraqi oil, wouldn't it be a lot simpler
> and cheaper to ignre the UN and rest of the world by buying it from Saddam
> desperate to sell and stuff sanctions they put in place, than all the costs
> of war? Who is going to put sanctions on the USA?
>

> You mean you're not queueing up there for the oil
> concessions? As somebody remarked last night in a
> question & answer programme, the bloody obvious we
> all forget, if the US/UK wish to ignore the UN and
> rest of the world to get a slice of action on Iraqi
> oil, wouldn't it be a lot simpler and cheaper to
> ignre the UN and rest of the world by buying it from
> Saddam desperate to sell and stuff sanctions they
> put in place, than all the costs of war? Who is
> going to put sanctions on the USA?
>
> Caesariensis
>

>
>Oil was an important part, put it was the least of the Allies goals.
>The real reason was to right a wrong that US caused in the '80s,
>and a friendly base of operations in Middle East. Rylaeh is not friendly
>The sooner we get out of Saudi Arabia the better.
>

>From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:32:25 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Salve Decime Mari,
>
> > http://www.freewebs.com/imperiumromanorum/
>
>Yes - we saw these "Sole Heirs of a Great Empire" about a month
>ago, and observed that their Constitution is almost an exact copy
>of ours. They're on the Imitators page:
>
>http://www.novaroma.org/etcetera/othergroups.html
>
>Vale, Octavius.
>
>--
>Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
>Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://cynico.net/~hucke/
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Marius Octavian ..
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:


you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall will fail
with Nova Roma.



DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA





>From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:32:25 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Salve Decime Mari,
>
> > http://www.freewebs.com/imperiumromanorum/
>
>Yes - we saw these "Sole Heirs of a Great Empire" about a month
>ago, and observed that their Constitution is almost an exact copy
>of ours. They're on the Imitators page:
>
>http://www.novaroma.org/etcetera/othergroups.html
>
>Vale, Octavius.
>
>--
>Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
>Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://cynico.net/~hucke/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Scaurus
> Thank you for the help in this.
> I heard of a woman Egyptian archaeology who believes
> that the Great Pyramids was built out of a formed
> concrete.She said that it was lost to the world.Could
> you maybe ask your friend if he have heard of anything
> like that? I'm trying to find out info on this.
> Thanks
> Brutis
>
> --- Gregory Rose <gfr@i...> wrote:Pyramids
> > G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
> >
> > Salve, G. Portice.
> >
> > > Have you heard of anything on the Egyptian? using
> > a
> > > form of concrete?
> > > G.P.Brutis
> >
> > I am neither an engineer nor an Egyptologist, so I
> > don't have an
> > answer for you. I do however have some friends in
> > Egyptology and
> > Egyptian archaeology and am happy to ask them about
> > it.
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> > G. Iulius Scaurus
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com

>From: "M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
>
>Salvete!
>
>I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma (in fact I'm also listed
>along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but this gentleman beats it
>all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew me off my socks! Sorry
>pal, but I think you need to go back to class... you have a wrong name.
>"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
>
>Valete...
>Solaris
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Marius Octavian ..
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend


time and time again history has proved that force is the only way to make
progress . I challenge you to name one instance in which no force or threat
of force was used to achieve a real and lasting political goal. You claim to
love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a huge part of her culture.
You event have fake legions so if you have any hope of really achieving
statehood the only way is to fight for it.
" Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as i hate the PLO their
methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table. How do you think that
M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by playing dress up and
having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but make-believe. Now i am
not saying start a revolution but if you did manage to become a state
peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend your selves when the UN
fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence( or the threat of) are the
only authority which most of the world understands and the romans knew this
so how can you now ignore this when you say that you are a rebirth of rome.
I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and i know the world and
you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who have no concept of what
it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt come up with all kinds of
clever remarks to help you discount my words but the truth lies within
yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are right(as you would be
in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the truth is darker and is
rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes there are diplomatic
solutions and they should be used whenever possible but what happen when the
fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your diplomacy. Please do not fall
in to that trap because it is already to late once he is in the door.



DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA





>From: "M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
>
>Salvete!
>
>I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma (in fact I'm also listed
>along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but this gentleman beats it
>all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew me off my socks! Sorry
>pal, but I think you need to go back to class... you have a wrong name.
>"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
>
>Valete...
>Solaris
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> time and time again history has proved that force is
> the only way to make
> progress . I challenge you to name one instance in
> which no force or threat
> of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> political goal. You claim to
> love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a
> huge part of her culture.
> You event have fake legions so if you have any hope
> of really achieving
> statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as
> i hate the PLO their
> methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table.
> How do you think that
> M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by
> playing dress up and
> having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but
> make-believe. Now i am
> not saying start a revolution but if you did manage
> to become a state
> peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> your selves when the UN
> fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence(
> or the threat of) are the
> only authority which most of the world understands
> and the romans knew this
> so how can you now ignore this when you say that you
> are a rebirth of rome.
> I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and
> i know the world and
> you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who
> have no concept of what
> it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt
> come up with all kinds of
> clever remarks to help you discount my words but the
> truth lies within
> yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are
> right(as you would be
> in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the
> truth is darker and is
> rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes
> there are diplomatic
> solutions and they should be used whenever possible
> but what happen when the
> fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> diplomacy. Please do not fall
> in to that trap because it is already to late once
> he is in the door.
>
>
>
> DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> <scorpioinvictus@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> >
> >Salvete!
> >
> >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma
> (in fact I'm also listed
> >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but
> this gentleman beats it
> >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew
> me off my socks! Sorry
> >pal, but I think you need to go back to class...
> you have a wrong name.
> >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> >
> >Valete...
> >Solaris
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>

> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months
> FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>

> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Thank you
> I just thought you might have been speaking about
> the
> POW snatch and grab OP. into Vietnam, that failed
> because of the News.
> A good friend of mine was almost killed trying to
> retrieve them.
> You have enlightened me to this Operation.
> G.P.Brutis
>
>
> --- Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
> > G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
> >
> > Salve, G. Portice.
> >
> > I was not referring to POW's or MIA's. I was
> > referring to Special
> > Forces operators leading indigenous tribal
> militias
> > in Laos. I was an
> > staff intelligence officer who helped choose
> targets
> > and draft
> > portions of the operations orders for U.S. Army
> > personnel operating in
> > Laos. At the time it was interesting to note that
> > Nixon or Laird were
> > blarring on Armed Forces Radio the denials that we
> > had any personnel
> > in Laos while I typed ops orders directing the
> > officially non-existent
> > American troops to conduct operations in Laos
> > (where, of course, there
> > were no American forces). If they weren't in Laos
> > they wouldn't need
> > the detailed map coordinates on their orders (and
> I
> > vividly remember
> > the SPC-4 who went back to PVT when he mistyped
> > coordinates in an op
> > order that put a team four grid squares away from
> > their planned
> > insertion and onto an entirely different
> mapsheet).
> > And I've yet to
> > meet a Hmong who could speak American Black
> Dialect
> > English with a
> > deep Alabama drawl, peppered with obscenities
> > referring to members of
> > his local draft board -- so when I heard the call
> > over the radio at
> > the ops shack about "contact" and the "need to get
> a
> > mutterfuking
> > dustoff" with coordinates over the border about
> six
> > kilometers,
> > followed by comments about the sex lives,
> > preferences in dogs to
> > sodomize, etc., of leading citizens of Birmingham,
> I
> > assumed it was
> > SGT Ford, not one of his Hmong associates :-).
> >
> > Vale in pace Deorum.
> >
> > G. Iulius Scaurus
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com
>

> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> Popes or David Koresh.

> Popes or David Koresh.

> -----Original Message-----
> From : �G.Porticus Brutis� <celtic4usa@...>
> Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Concrete
>
> >Thank you for the help in this.
> >I heard of a woman Egyptian archaeology who
> believes
> >that the Great Pyramids was built out of a formed
> >concrete.She said that it was lost to the
> world.Could
> >
> Of all the mysteries surrounding the GP (and what
> has happened about the Gantenbrink Hatch?) its
> material is not one: the GP is built mainly of
> granite, some of it bending under the strain, and
> Cairo is built mainly of the GP, at least its
> limestone casing which would have made it a beacon
> at midday.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

> G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
>
> Avete, Quirites.
>
> Given the liturgical season for our Christian
> citizens, and given my
> interest in Roman law and provincial administration,
> I thought it
> might prove interesting to post a link to Joe Zias'
> essay on
> "Crucifixion in Antiquity":
>
> http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html
>
> Zias was curator of archaeology and anthropology at
> the Israel
> Antiquities Authority for twenty-five years.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: David Meadows
To: explorator
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:58 AM
Subject: [Explorator] Explorator 5.51
================================================================
explorator 5.51 April 20, 2003
================================================================
Editor's note: Depending on your mail software, some urls may
wrap (especially those from the Telegraph) which will require
you to rebuild the url at your end; if you get a 'file not
found', check to see if the url wrapped on you. Most urls should
be active for at least eight hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!
================================================================
================================================================

Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Bill Kennedy, Hernan Astudillo, Mike Ruggeri,
Louis A. Okin, Steve Rankin, Yonatan Nadelman, 'fireflye', Leanne
Archer, W. Richard Frahm, Dave Sowdon, Mark Morgan, Joan Pasch, John
Hill, John McMahon, Michael Oberndorf, RM Howe, Donna Hurst, Joseph
Nicholas and John McChesney-Young for headses upses this week
(a.a.h.i.h.l.n.o.o.)

N.B.: Explorator passed a milestone some time list week when it
had it's 3,000th subscriber sign up! Thanks to all you subscribers
(new and old) for your support!

N.B. 2: I believe this is the largest Explorator ever sent out ...
it was certainly the one which took the longest to put together!

Happy Easter and/or Passover and/or any other cultural celebration
you may be celebrating this week!

================================================================
================================================================
AFRICA, EUROPE, AND ASIA
================================================================
As most folks know, the news from Iraq has been coming fast and
furious all week; it has also made it to a zillion newsgroups
and mailing lists already, so I'm sure most of you have seen much
of it. As such, to save you from wading through it all again -- it
is rather overwhelming -- I've put it all at the end of this week's
issue (not to be construed as a comment on its importance!).

The dating of the paintings in Chauvet Cave is being questioned:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993631

More on that dagger found in a lake in Germany:

http://portale.web.de/Wissenschaft/Archaeologie/?msg_id=2865561 (photo; German text)

A Bronze Age burial has been found in northern Portugal:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1349296,00.html

John Noble Wilford has penned a lengthy piece on the Etruscan thing
at UPenn:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/15/science/15ETRU.html

"Tests" suggest that, if nothing else, the James Ossuary is from
the right period:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_771726.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0418_030418_jesusrelic.html
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F18%2Fwbox18.xml
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/page.cfm?objectid=12866174&method=full&siteid=89488&headline=DID%20BOX%20CONTAIN%20CHRIST'S%20BROTHER%3F

National Geographic has a piece on recent controversial finds from
Israel (guess!):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0418_030418_bibleartifact.html

Archaeologists working near the Dead Sea have found some coins
dating to the Bar Kochba revolt:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2959289.stm
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/2003/apr/18/041807795.html

The House of the Perfume Maker has reopened in Pompeii:

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2570718
http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200304121717-0168-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia

One of the Avebury stones is *realllllllllly* huge, it turns out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,939115,00.html
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=6001054

Wall paintings from the 13th century (?) have been painstakingly restored
in a church in London:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F17%2Fnmural17.xml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,938247,00.html

Construction of a car dealership in Lincolnshire has revealed an
850 b.p. dragon head:

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=57711&command=displayContent&sourceNode=57238&contentPK=5199872

The Newport Ship (now almost completely excavated) is causing
controversy:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fnexca19.xml

Signs scratched on 8600 b.p. tortoise shells from China may be the
oldest writing ever found:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2956925.stm
http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5726_29233964,00.html (Spanish)

They've (re)excavated some Shang Dynasty oracle bones in China:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200304/09/eng20030409_114849.shtml

China's 'top ten discoveries for 2002' list:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-04/13/content_829510.htm

The latest on the Ayodhya dig:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_232924,000900010004.htm

Excavations at Sanjan (India) are providing some insight into one of
the first Parsi settlements:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=43207293

A 300 b.p. lavatory in North York is at the center of a dispute:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,938281,00.html

================================================================
THE AMERICAS
================================================================
A Peruvian gourd is (for now) the oldest religious icon ever found in
the Americas:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993625
http://www.msnbc.com/news/899081.asp
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0417/p02s02-woam.html
http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5726_29233929,00.html (Spanish)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=570&ncid=753&e=3&u=/nm/20030414/sc_nm/science_deity_dc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2947039.stm
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030414-024215-4448r
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030414/030414-4.html
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_16-4-2003_pg9_3

A recent survey in Chile has identified more than 50 potential sites:

http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5666_29241941,00.html (Spanish)

The Telegraph has a piece on the Franklin Expedition:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fnarc19.xml

A Hohokam site has been found in downtown (sort of) Phoenix:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7746122&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=222077&rfi=6
================================================================
ALSO OF INTEREST
================================================================
On the DNA front, a certain type of cancer has been traced to
Viking genes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,937480,00.html

There's a new dating technique for metal artifacts:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030415-120247-7512r

There must be several levels of irony in the fact that Britain's
Arts Ministrix has placed an export ban on the diaries of Claudius
Rich:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2955547.stm

Another side of the political side of archaeology in Israel (perhaps):

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=84192

All about the stuff they've done to make Hadrian's Wall into a
major tourist attraction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,936299,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/2948843.stm

Patras (Greece) is getting a new museum:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/civ__3829488KathiLev&xml/&aspKath/civ.asp?fdate=16/04/2003

A nice piece on how the Venus de Milo was protected during WWI:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,938806,00.html

A new cancer centre in Cambridge will incorporate a cast of an Iron
Age pottery kiln in its construction:

http://w3.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/story.asp?StoryID=12920

The Met has acquired a pile of medieval ivories for the Cloisters:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/arts/design/18INSI.html

As might be expected in a postmodern world, Spinoza seems to be
gaining ground on Descartes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/arts/19EMOT.html

The New York Times has a touristy thing on St. Petersburg to mark
its tricentennial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/travel/20stpete.html

Mersey is about to erect a giant statue of Neptune as a reflection
of its maritime heritage (very difficult to resist an editorial
comment on this one):

http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/dailypost/page.cfm?objectid=12853663&method=full&siteid=50020&headline=Neptune%20rising

In a semi-related story, they've recreated the famous "Amber Room"
(another item still missing from WWII):

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fwamber19.xml

Robert Ballard has received a huge grant to fund broadcasting of
sites from the Black Sea this summer:

http://www.newsday.com/technology/ats-ap_technology11apr19,0,5766259.story?coll=sns-technology-headlines
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030419_617.html
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/5672373.htm
================================================================
MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
================================================================
There's a new issue of Archaeology out:

http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=curiss/index

[check out esp. http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=0305/etc/web which
is a nice piece on the Hall of Maat webboard, run by some friends
of Explorator]

.. and Archaeology Odyssey:

http://www.bib-arch.org/bswb_AO/indexAO.html

A new issue of Internet Archaeology:

http://intarch.ac.uk/journal/issue13/index.html

American Journal of Philology 124.1 (abstracts; full text for Muse)

http://www.press.jhu.edu/journals/american_journal_of_philology/toc/ajp124.1.html

Classical Journal 98.3 (TOCS only):

http://www4.infotrieve.com/journals/toc_email.asp?sid=677808&custID=95692&year=2003&volume=98&issue=3&date

Classical Quarterly 52.2 (TOCS only; full text for subscribers):

http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/current/

Greece and Rome 50.1 (ditto):

http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/

Wired has a piece on Steve Booras and his efforts to make manuscripts
from Herculaneum more readable:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/vesuvius.html
================================================================
ON THE WEB
================================================================
The Survey and Excavation Projects in Egypt site has recently
gone up:

http://www.deltasinai.com/sepe-00.htm

Discovery.com has some nice biographies on some currently-digging
archaeologist types:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/empereur.html (Jean-Yves Empereur)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/fletcher.html (Joann Fletcher)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/dobrev.html (Vassil Dobrev)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/anderson.html (Julie Anderson)
================================================================
NEW ONLINE BOOKS
================================================================
Nikola Moushmov, *Ancient Coins of the Balkan Peninsula*:

http://www.ancientcoinart.com/moushmov.html

Mark Munn, *The Defense of Attica: The Dema Wall and the
Boiotian War of 378-375 B.C*:

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft0q2n99ng/

Leslie MacCoull, *Dioscorus of Aphrodito: His Work and His World*

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft0m3nb0cs/

Woodhouse's English-Greek Dictionary:

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/Woodhouse/
================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
An illegally-excavated hoard of Greek coins has been recovered:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=28772

Russian authorities are trying to curb the activities of the 'black
diggers', who are plundering Adriatica:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,936954,00.html
================================================================
AT ABOUT.COM
================================================================
Ancient History Guide N.S. Gill provides the background to that
whole Helen of Troy thing:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa011800a.htm
================================================================
BOOK REVIEWS
================================================================
Niall Ferguson, *Empire*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/books/18BOOK.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/books/review/20MACMILLT.html

David Liss, *The Coffee Trader* (Fiction):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13MALLONT.html

Glyn Williams, *Voyages of Delusion: The Quest for the Northwest
Passage*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13DORELT.html

Jon Kukla, *A Wilderness So Immense*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13DUNNLT.html

Barry Unsworth, *The Songs of the Kings* (Fiction):

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/04/15/unsworth/index_np.html

Jai Sen, *The Golden Vine* ("alternate history" of Alexander the Great):

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/April/13/style/stories/05style.htm
================================================================
PERFORMANCES
================================================================
Heliogabalus:

http://tinyurl.com/9wjd

Iphigeneia at Aulis:

http://keystoneonline.com/story.asp?Art_id=595

Les Boreades:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/15/arts/music/15RAME.html
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS
================================================================
Transmitting the Forms of Divinity: Early Buddhist Art From
Korea and Japan (New York):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/arts/design/18SMIT.html
================================================================
CLASSICIST'S CORNER
================================================================
I'm not quite sure how to categorize this review of "Olympias,
Mother of Alexander the Great" (which may be a book or a drama
or both):

http://www.postnewspapers.com.au/20030419/impressions/books.shtml

As you're no doubt aware, a miniseries on Helen of Troy begins on
the USA Network tonight ... here's some reviews (personally I'm
not sure that face could launch a thousand ships ... a few, maybe,
but she appears a rather unHel(l)enic Helen to me!):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/arts/television/19MART.html
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2003-04-17-helen_x.htm
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~78~1321630,00.html

.. good quote from the actress herself in this one:

http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/nyc-helen17,0,3955184.story?coll=nyc-ent-short-navigation

Meanwhile, an actress has been chosen to play Helen in the upcoming
movie based on the Iliad (so ... was Helen blond?):

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=filmNews&storyID=2549041
http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/0,1259,---16449,00.html
http://www.estoeshollywood.com/images/Noticias%20de%20portada/Diane%20Kruger.htm (with photo)

An interview with Christopher Logue (author of *All Day Permanent Red*):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/magazine/13QUESTIONS.html

A classics student is a murder suspect:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1333312,00.html

An attempt to see parallels between Iraq and Alexander (this one's
difficult to read):

http://www.nynews.com/newsroom/042003/e01w20greeks.html

On 'trying to be relevant':

http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=2082

A summary of the upcoming sword and sandal flicks:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~78~1321618,00.html

ClassCon in a piece on pulling down statues:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110003359

Nice coverage of a school's culminating activity for their Greek
unit (with a nice (old) pun in the headline):

http://www.townonline.com/amesbury/news/local_regional/an_feaanfeingold04172003.htm

An item on Ovid, with a (passing) tie-in to Iraq:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172713688.html

A virtual reconstruction of the Odeon of Pericles suggests it had
really bad sight lines:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2950661.stm
http://www.newsandevents.warwick.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=pressrelease&id=1003
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030414/030414-6.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,938396,00.html

Perfess'r Harris:

http://www.realchangenews.org/issue/current/classics/classics_corner.html

Peter Jones in the Spectator:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-19&id=3020

Akropolis News in Classical Greek:
http://www.akwn.net/

Radio Finland's Nuntii Latini
http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html

Radio Bremen's Der Monatsrückblick - auf Latein
http://www.radiobremen.de/online/latein/

U.S. Weather in Latin:
http://latin.wunderground.com/

================================================================
REPEATS
================================================================
Israel in David and Solomon's Time:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/11/MN24970.DTL

Oldest Mummification:

http://www.cp.org/english/online/full/science/030407/g040710A.html

Plato Languishing in the Basement:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/13/BA248482.DTL
================================================================
PLUNDERING IN IRAQ
================================================================
It begins with 'general' stuff -- plundering of museum and burning of
the Islamic library:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396743
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,937094,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/international/worldspecial/13ARTI.html (John Noble Wilford)
http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/terror_story_105213143.html
http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1232029 (audio)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47963-2003Apr17.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2942449.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-War-Plundered-Treasures-Glance.html
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-War-Plundered-Treasures.html
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-iraq-baghdad-museum.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/otsc.irq.clancy/
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16BAGH.html
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/local_regional/ap_museumlooting04132003.htm

.. then we hear that the "House of Wisdom", which housed much
of Ottoman interest (among other things) was also a
victim:

http://hnn.us/articles/1397.html

.. and the possible loss of the 'Sippar Library' (cuneiform texts):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48178-2003Apr17.html

The Museum at Mosul received comparatively scant coverage:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.north18apr18,0,3172404.story?coll=bal-news-nation

The Art Newspaper has put up a database of sorts with images of some
300 items which were lost:

http://81.112.115.148/allemandi/TAN/news/article.asp?idart=10986

There's plenty of "scholars told you so" type coverage:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,937963,00.html (by McGuire Gibson)
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/04/17/build/war/32-robbed.inc
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/899932.asp
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16MUSE.html
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/634/sc11.htm
http://www.fox23news.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=DDD45E02-E91C-4C24-BE43-904F50141BCD
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/5650160.htm
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2568306

.. and more doubts/suspicions being raised about the AACP:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-19&id=3011

There are suggestions that some looters 'knew what they were looking
for' and/or 'were hired' and/or were part of an 'inside job':

http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1236055 (audio)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/902234.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47721-2003Apr17.html
http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_MUSEUMS?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/content/news/ap/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V7380.AP-Iraq-Museums.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1050623363348_5/?hub=SpecialEvent3
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1050579323193090.xml

A number of cultural policy advisors have resigned to protest
the lack of immediate reponse to the looting of the museum:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42416-2003Apr16.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2958533.stm
http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/terror_story_107220146.html

.. and, of course, there were a spate of opinion pieces:

http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/osgood_story_108100249.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/opinion/L19MUSE.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/opinion/16DOWD.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081647/ (good photos)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,936216,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/opinion/17FOST.html (written by an Assyriologist)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/opinion/17LOWE.html
http://www.haveeru.com.mv/english/news_show.phtml?id=1291&search=&find=
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110003368

The U.S. has promised to help recover stolen objects:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2947251.stm

Universities and other organizations are offering help in identifying
what was taken:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Museums-Penn.html (UPenn)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/900550.asp (BM)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-647085,00.html (BM)
http://www.chicagomaroon.com/news/421200.html?mkey=242404 (OI)
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/citations/03/030415.gibson-ct.html (OI)
http://www.uk.sis.gov.eg/online/html9/o190423m.htm (SCA)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/arts/16ARTS.html (UNESCO)
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17567 (various)

There are also hints that some items were actually hidden away
prior to the fall of Baghdad (and so not stolen?):

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB105053292455773900.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/international/worldspecial/17MUSE.html

There were further calls late in the week for more protection of
cultural monuments in Iraq:

http://tinyurl.com/9wj0
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17621

And pleas for museums not to purchase any:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16ANTI.html

Some items are being recovered already:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Paintings.html
http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/N2724.carpoint/B1146712.23;sz=300x250;ord=22057?

.. while others appear to have already appeared up for sale (am I
reading that correctly?):

http://irak.figaro.net/enjeux/20030418.FIG0822.html (French)
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1765645

Photos (from a message I sent to the ANE list):

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a6.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a5.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a7.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030413/241/3sl7q.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030413/170/3sh2s.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s32g.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s2ss.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s2tm.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030410/168/3reai.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030409/241/3qxd0.html (tikrit)


The Washington Post has a nice flash slideshow, but it's kind of difficult to get to ... go to:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/

then, in the 'War in Iraq' section, click on "in depth" ... a new window
will open; click on the 'Enter' after "Museum and Offices Plundered" ...
the first five or six are appropriate and rather nice pieces of photojournalism ...

Other items:

http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1231007 (NPR interview with McGuire Gibson)
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=10985 (Q and A)

Francis Deblauwe's Iraq War and Archaeology site:

http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/fdeblauwe/iraq.html

================================================================
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game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend


Salve,

DMO:> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> Popes or David Koresh.

MOG:<< Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.

Jeez Octavius, I think I woke up the neighbors laughing over that !!

Speaking of Popes with better hats, I've just finished watching the Pope's
Easter service on Rai-Uno (Italian TV) just now. It was nice to see people
of so many different nationalities and skin colors standing next to
eachother in peace. As most people know, I am not a Christian, but I
couldn't help but feel the real spirit of good will today. If it is possible
for a million or so people to get along today at the Vatican, then it should
be possible for the entire world to do the same. And that would be without
force.

DMO: <you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall will
fail with Nova Roma.

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.

Vale,
Diana Moravia


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I'm sorry to bother you with that,I found the answer
>for a guy at a archaeology site.
>If you want to know the web site is....
>http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeo1a.html
>

> I wish to be removed as a member of Nova Roma. I've paid taxes for
> this year, so please use it as my donation/contribution to your
> wonderful group. Please take me off as a member. I need to have
> this message forwarded to the correct person. The reason is I am
> nearly blind and use a screen reader (audio). It is too difficult
> for me to surf the Web for all the clubs I belong to. At the moment
> I can't find the correct email address to send this to in order to
> be removed from the group.
>
> I am cutting down on various organizations as I won't be able to
> participate online and am going offline most of the time, except
> for email. I really love your group and what it's doing in the
> field of education as I'm a devout ancient history buff. My
> favorite ancient history fiction author is Steven Saylor and I
> listen to his audio books frequently and enjoy the authentic
> detailed historical research and great metaphors. So I want to say
> bye bye to you all from Octavia in San Francisco.
>
> You can browse my historical novel about ancient Rome by clicking
> on my Web site: http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com
>
> Bye Bye
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba

>From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend to trolls and weirdos
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Sulla
>I tried to hold back,I tried to hold my tounge but
>really you know me I just can't!......
>
>
>Decimus Marius Octavian
>Ok first off in this day and time popping up in some
>country that your are not already in, will get you
>nothing.
>This is laughable!!!
>
>What are we to rise up here in the US?
>PLEASE Half of us NRoman's can't even agree on where
>to place are land even if we had it, but you are
>asking us to take over what???
>France?Iraq? or HEY MAYBE WE"LL TAKE OVER MEXICO.....
>YES!!!! THAT'S IT WE'LL TAKE OLD MEXICO,they should be
>a push over.....
>
>Do you see how dumb that is????
>I agree with you that a strong army would be a good
>Idea, however where are you going to get the people???
>Most NRoman's are happy where they live and would
>never move just to get smashed by the UN OR even the
>US.
>
>I'm not trying to brake you dreams here but you are
>going about it the wrong way.....
>
>I've got to say this crazy idea sounds more like
>something I'd say....
>PLEASE don't be like me, half the people here seethat
>an e-mail is from me and run to the DELETE BUTTON.....
>"HAHA go ahead laugh at the clown, At least I know
>what I am"...LOL
>JUST JOKING!!!
>
>Really it would help if you where all together like
>Ireland, than I could see it.
>You have to take baby steps with NR and not push
>people, that's the way people get burned out fast.
>
>Remember ROMA was not built in a day!!!!
>
>I thank you for a good try and getting us up on our
>feet.Please feel free to stick around and find those
>who would see your way, and by all means try to make
>some friends. This is what some of us are here for,
>and you get more fish with a worm, not a beer can "I
>have tried".
>
>G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
>http://search.yahoo.com

>From: "Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:00:47 -0400
>
>The popes had a hell of a lot more money than David Koresh, and the
>support of millions of Catholics as well. Money and popularity
>never hurt a cause.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: L. Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@...]
>Sent: Saturday, 19 April, 2003 22:12
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>
>
>Salvete Quirites,
>
>On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
>of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
>thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
>no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
>prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
>of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
>in 1929 CE.
>
>The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
>what we are attempting to do without firing a single
>shot, without drawing a single sword.
>
>Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
>Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
>in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
>every man, woman, and child inside.
>
>I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
>Popes or David Koresh.
>
>L. Sicinius Drusus
>Senator
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Salvete Quirites,
>
>On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
>of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
>thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
>no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
>prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
>of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
>in 1929 CE.
>
>The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
>what we are attempting to do without firing a single
>shot, without drawing a single sword.
>
>Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
>Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
>in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
>every man, woman, and child inside.
>
>I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
>Popes or David Koresh.
>
>L. Sicinius Drusus
>Senator
>
>
>--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
><dansquiers@...> wrote:
> > time and time again history has proved that force is
> > the only way to make
> > progress . I challenge you to name one instance in
> > which no force or threat
> > of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> > political goal. You claim to
> > love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a
> > huge part of her culture.
> > You event have fake legions so if you have any hope
> > of really achieving
> > statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> > " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as
> > i hate the PLO their
> > methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table.
> > How do you think that
> > M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by
> > playing dress up and
> > having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but
> > make-believe. Now i am
> > not saying start a revolution but if you did manage
> > to become a state
> > peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> > your selves when the UN
> > fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence(
> > or the threat of) are the
> > only authority which most of the world understands
> > and the romans knew this
> > so how can you now ignore this when you say that you
> > are a rebirth of rome.
> > I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and
> > i know the world and
> > you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who
> > have no concept of what
> > it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt
> > come up with all kinds of
> > clever remarks to help you discount my words but the
> > truth lies within
> > yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are
> > right(as you would be
> > in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the
> > truth is darker and is
> > rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes
> > there are diplomatic
> > solutions and they should be used whenever possible
> > but what happen when the
> > fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> > diplomacy. Please do not fall
> > in to that trap because it is already to late once
> > he is in the door.
> >
> >
> >
> > DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> > PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> > <scorpioinvictus@...>
> > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> > >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> > >
> > >Salvete!
> > >
> > >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma
> > (in fact I'm also listed
> > >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but
> > this gentleman beats it
> > >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew
> > me off my socks! Sorry
> > >pal, but I think you need to go back to class...
> > you have a wrong name.
> > >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> > >
> > >Valete...
> > >Solaris
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months
> > FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
>http://search.yahoo.com

>From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Restoration of Ancient Rome
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:55:28 -0000
>
>Salvete omnes,
>
>In my opinion it would be possible to get the Roman Empire
>resurected. It is significant and was an important start that Nova
>Roma got going out of the US but think that once we have several
>thousand citizens and supporters it would be a good idea to begin
>building a new Rome out of the Eternal City of Rome.
>
>It would be necessary to get Nova Roman people into municpal,
>provincial and Federal politics and positions throughout Italy, then
>Europe and America. We would need to recruit highly educated
>political leaders, wealthy business people, economists etc from the
>likes of "The Club Of Rome" who would have the same passion and
>yearning for Ancient Rome as many of us do. As many of you know the
>return of the Roman Empire has been predicted as a tool of an anti-
>Christ etc. so it would be very important to dispell this myth or we
>would have many enemies before we got to first base. The building of
>such an empire could be gradually achieved through peaceful
>revolution over time though people's interests, passions, interest in
>politics and economics. It may even look like the car commerial on
>TV last year showing a modern day Rome with a fun loving leader in
>Laurels praising 2000 years of achievments. In a way Mussolini had
>some insight starting a Roman restoration and may have been
>successful if he had concentrated on modeling the society like
>Ancient Rome, restoring her architecture splendor etc. rather than
>taking on a conquistador approach and going to bed politcally with
>the Nazis. His failure is a classic example of how taking things by
>force does not work.
>
>Now the idea of buying land somewhere for NR is a noble thought but I
>fear that Nova Roma would never evolve and become more of a resort
>set up like Club Atlantis in the Carribean, Disneyland or a Club Med
>type set up.
>
>No, for the above reasons a new Roman Empire should eventually evolve
>and expand from the Eternal City, expand through Italy, Europe and
>America as I illustrated.
>
>Valete Bene,
>
>Quintus Lanius
>

>From: John Walzer <jwalzer5@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:27:26 -0400
>
>The problem with the Vatican is that it assumes it has all the answers.
>Can anyone reconcile the Vatican's claim to be God's spokesman with the
>criminal antics of cretinous popes, such as Alexander VI, Paul IV, John
>XII, or Pius V (a former grand insquisitor)? Where was God when these
>representatives of Holy Mother Church were mocking the institution they
>claimed to represent? Papal history is a pretty miserable indicator of
>merit. People who cavalierly quote papal history should read more books on
>the subject.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Moravia Aventina
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:24 AM
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>
>
> Salve,
>
> DMO:> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> > Popes or David Koresh.
>
> MOG:<< Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.
>
> Jeez Octavius, I think I woke up the neighbors laughing over that !!
>
> Speaking of Popes with better hats, I've just finished watching the
>Pope's
> Easter service on Rai-Uno (Italian TV) just now. It was nice to see
>people
> of so many different nationalities and skin colors standing next to
> eachother in peace. As most people know, I am not a Christian, but I
> couldn't help but feel the real spirit of good will today. If it is
>possible
> for a million or so people to get along today at the Vatican, then it
>should
> be possible for the entire world to do the same. And that would be
>without
> force.
>
> DMO: <you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall
>will
> fail with Nova Roma.
>
> Don't mistake kindness for weakness.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> the vatican is built around a religion and the religion and respect for the
> pope is what lead to the vatican. I think the neither is smarter the pope
> is
> living a dream where he is the only infalable human on matters of falth and
>
> thinks that he is the vicor of christ on earth , no where in the bible is
> this written. David Koresh was a mad man who thought he was christ. I am
> christian but i find nothing worth copying about either.

> I think that comparing David Koreish to any
> post-renaissance pope is like
> comparing a reasonably sound orange to a very rotton
> apple. The recent popes
> have certainly not been perfect, but they didn't use
> sex and drugs to
> maintain a hypnotic hold over their followers (well,
> unless you count
> communion wine as a drug). Anyway, my point is that
> there doesn't seem to be
> any rational basis for comparison.
>

> the vatican is built around a religion and the
> religion and respect for the
> pope is what lead to the vatican. I think the
> neither is smarter the pope is
> living a dream where he is the only infalable human
> on matters of falth and
> thinks that he is the vicor of christ on earth , no
> where in the bible is
> this written. David Koresh was a mad man who thought
> he was christ. I am
> christian but i find nothing worth copying about
> either.
>
>
>
> DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
> >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Salvete Quirites,
> >
> >On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became
> part
> >of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power
> was
> >thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59
> years
> >no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
> >prisoners. This non violent display won them the
> state
> >of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was
> signed
> >in 1929 CE.
> >
> >The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929
> achived
> >what we are attempting to do without firing a
> single
> >shot, without drawing a single sword.
> >
> >Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
> >Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey
> end
> >in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound
> killing
> >every man, woman, and child inside.
> >
> >I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> >Popes or David Koresh.
> >
> >L. Sicinius Drusus
> >Senator
> >
> >
> >--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
> ><dansquiers@...> wrote:
> > > time and time again history has proved that
> force is
> > > the only way to make
> > > progress . I challenge you to name one instance
> in
> > > which no force or threat
> > > of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> > > political goal. You claim to
> > > love rome but rome loved her legions and it was
> a
> > > huge part of her culture.
> > > You event have fake legions so if you have any
> hope
> > > of really achieving
> > > statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> > > " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much
> as
> > > i hate the PLO their
> > > methods have brought the US and Israel to the
> Table.
> > > How do you think that
> > > M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not
> by
> > > playing dress up and
> > > having fake meetings with nothing to talk about
> but
> > > make-believe. Now i am
> > > not saying start a revolution but if you did
> manage
> > > to become a state
> > > peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> > > your selves when the UN
> > > fails so miserably. My friends Force and
> violence(
> > > or the threat of) are the
> > > only authority which most of the world
> understands
> > > and the romans knew this
> > > so how can you now ignore this when you say that
> you
> > > are a rebirth of rome.
> > > I am not a violent man but i am not naive either
> and
> > > i know the world and
> > > you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals
> who
> > > have no concept of what
> > > it takes to keep a nation free. You will no
> doubt
> > > come up with all kinds of
> > > clever remarks to help you discount my words but
> the
> > > truth lies within
> > > yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you
> are
> > > right(as you would be
> > > in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that
> the
> > > truth is darker and is
> > > rampant with evil that only force can turn back.
> Yes
> > > there are diplomatic
> > > solutions and they should be used whenever
> possible
> > > but what happen when the
> > > fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> > > diplomacy. Please do not fall
> > > in to that trap because it is already to late
> once
> > > he is in the door.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> > > PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> > > <scorpioinvictus@...>
> > > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> > > >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> > > >
> > > >Salvete!
> > > >
> > > >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova
> Roma
> > > (in fact I'm also listed
> > > >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)),
> but
> > > this gentleman beats it
> > > >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally
> blew
> > > me off my socks! Sorry
> > > >pal, but I think you need to go back to
> class...
> > > you have a wrong name.
> > > >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> > > >
> > > >Valete...
> > > >Solaris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2
> months
> > > FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> >http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
>

> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months
> FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>

> That sounds like the National Socialist Party of the 1930s.

>
>
>

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Some recent comments on this forum lead me to beleave
> that some might not be aware of Nova Roma's goals,
> therefore I'm posting the Declaration of Nova Roma
> from the Tabularium. The Declaration is explicit
> regarding Nova Roma's territorial ambitions and in
> renouncing certain means to achive our goals.
>
>Salve Iscini,

> Today's political climate is not forgiving to small
> groups that advocate achiving thier goals by force. It
> is a suicidal path that leads to death or prison. Even
> Prior to the Terrorist attacks of 2001 Nova Roma was
> investigated by the FBI. Todays reality is far harsher
> than it was when some comments in the back alley led
> to the FBI checking out Nova Roma.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>

> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 4:47 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moderation Notice


Salvete Quirites.

This is to announce that I have decided to moderate a message
from "Decimus Marius Octavian" ( dansquiers@... ) because of
its explicitly insulting content.

I am forwarding the original message to the tribuni plebis so they
can issue an intercessio against this decision if that is their wish.
Should that happen, I will post the original message to this forum.

Should anyone feel mistreated by this decision, he is invited to
contact the tribuni plebis at tribunes@... to express his
petition.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
PRAETOR


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: go to: i am a friend


> Today's political climate is not forgiving to small
> groups that advocate achiving thier goals by force. It
> is a suicidal path that leads to death or prison. Even
> Prior to the Terrorist attacks of 2001 Nova Roma was
> investigated by the FBI. Todays reality is far harsher
> than it was when some comments in the back alley led
> to the FBI checking out Nova Roma.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
Salve Druse,

I agree with your last comment. Still I am amazed that the FBI would
investigate a micronation based on an Ancient Culture exsisting for
now only in cyberspace. I thought their time may have been better
spent, even if it was only one agent, investigating the likes of KKK,
malitia groups, hate mongers, pornographers and all. Oh well, it
seems that agent or agents were barking up the wrong tree at that
time does it not?


regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
__________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]