then 3 polls one for the churchs one for the wiccan and one for the
other pagans ?













--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve Marcus Cornelius Felix
>
> But the yahoo groups limit us to 25 responses I did the best I

could . I listed RR and other "Pagan" I also included a
Other/DK /Decline space.

>
> Vale
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: wuffa2001
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:04 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] groups to add to poll
>
>
> well then if you going make a list
> You need to add ( as i know there are people in Novaroma
> who are in the
> Chaldean Catholic Church
> Armenian Orthodox Church
> Assyrian Church of the East
> High-Catholic Church of England( not rome)
> then there is the people under His Holiness The Catholicos of the
> East (Patriarch of Antioch and All the East)
> The Malankara Orthodox Church
> Syriac Orthodox Church
> Coptic Eastern Catholic Church
> Byzantine Catholic(non-Orthodox)
> Syro-Malabar Eastern Catholic Church
> then there are all the churchs that are non-3rd to 5th Conciliar
> ( like the Coptic groups)
> then there are the there are the None-magick GNOSTIC groups( NON-

OTO)

> then there are the Esoteric old Catholics groups (The Liberal
> Catholic Church etc..)
> then there are the...
> i could go on BUT you get the point
> now how about them pagani ( I am one {hint})
> do i have to list the 20 kinds of wiccan and the 40 kinds of NON-
> wiccan pagan ( wiccan is a sub-set of pagan )
>
> what i am saying If we are going to count all the kinds of

Churchs

> here in NR
> and i want more then just the line ( other pagan )
>
>
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gai Iuli,

<< I recognise that interrupting a good rant may be in bad taste, >>

MOS: No problem ;).

<< but "dignitas" is precisely _not_ like "paterfamilias." "Dignitas" is a
third declension, feminine noun in the nominative. "Paterfamilias" is
an artifact of the borrowing of a Greek genitive ending into Latin and
the majority of Latin grammarians regard "familias" in this context as
an indeclinable. I posted a more detailed discussion of problems
associated with this word a few days ago. Perhaps philology, too, is
one of those things which people really ought to learn. Of course,
this has nothing to do with the so-called traditionalist vs. modernist
debate (I happen to think that the issues do not precisely break
down that way and that some of them correlate to historical differences
between what might loosely be called optimates and populares in Roma
antiqua). >>

MOS: Oh, I wasn't saying that they belonged to the same declension. I said that <dignitas> and <paterfamilias> was the only correct way of spelling the expression. I wasn't making any grammatical points. Thanks for the explanation anyway, because I have always been a bit unsure what to do with that <-familias>-ending.

So, a borrowed Greek infinitive? Pretty funny for a word that is so typically associated with the Roman way of life! :)

Vale bene!
M. Octavius Solaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"wuffa2001" <holyconelia@...> wrote:

> then 3 polls one for the churchs one for the wiccan and one for the
> other pagans ?

Salve!

Yeah, narrowing down the "Pagans" would help considerably--especially for
those like myself who don't use the term Pagan, given its extreme confusion
with all forms of Wicca. I prefer "Greek polytheist" myself.


Vale,
Andrea Gladia Cyrene





* Kyrene Ariadne / Andrea Gladia Cyrene *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Hellenion: http://www.hellenion.org *
* Ai Mystai Greek Mysteries: http://ai-mystai.faithweb.com *
* Temple of Apollon: http://www.TempleApollo.com *
* Temple of Dionysos: http://www.TempleDionysos.com *
* Temple of Aphrodite: http://www.TempleAphrodite.net *
* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:Kyrene Ariadne *


____________________________________________________________________
This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account.

In a message dated 7/2/03 10:18:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cordus@... writes:

> I was simply trying to point out in a relatively
> light-hearted way that it is possible to object to
> something not because it is offensive but because it
> is incorrect

My dear Apollonius. I do not believe Lucius Cornelius is annoyed with you.
I believe he is annoyed with the PC nature of this discussion to which you
just added an amusing additional brick. In otherwords it is not dying. But
seems to be enduring.

Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

> But the yahoo groups limit us to 25 responses I did the best I could . I
> listed RR and other "Pagan" I also included a Other/DK /Decline space.

Perhaps it would have been better to include only two categories, since the
stated intent of the poll was to establish whether or not Christians were a
minority on the list.

The category that best describes my religion is:
- Christian
- Not Christian

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus

The XP or chi rho - the first two letters of the greek alphabet for
Cristos or christ.
X as in Xian seems to serve the same purpose as X in Xmass.
In no defense or in no antagonism towards anyone, there will always
be one whomever in a group that will find offense at something to
about.
Look at the reform to language with the Womens movement as an
example. Some people find Mailman offensive and you need to say
letter carrier, etc. Not everyone but there will always be one.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>
> --- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Also, IME, "Xtian" is often considered an
> > offensive usage.
> >
> > Sulla: Really....where did you come up with that
> > opinion? I would like to know...considering I
> > learned using Xtian during my childhood, from my
> > former preacher (non-denominatial)...who used it
> > quite extensively as an abbreviation when writing on
> > the chalkboard during Sunday Services. Considering
> > that Christian followers usually used the X and P as
> > letters in Jesus's name.
> >
>
> I Have heard claims from fundimentalists that the "X"
> in Xmas is some modern plot to "ex" Christ out of
> Christmas.
>
> "X" or "XP" were been used as abbrevations for Christ
> at least since the time of Constitine, and likely
> longer than that.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve Quinte

> Apparently in Ancient Greece there was a town called Laconia.

Laconica is a region in the Peleponnese, and home to the city-state
of Sparta (whose lifestyle supposedly also gives us the
term 'spartan', of course :)

Lucius Lucillus Catilina

Thanks Quintus,
I neglected to state in a similar reply the XP chi rho is still worn
today by many in the clergy -
An elongated P with an X going through the middle.
This and the fish symbol were the symbols for christanity.
The "sign" seen by Constantine during battle across the sun was not a
cross but the Chi Rho symbol for Cristos or as Quintus pointed out
Xristos.
It wasn't until after Constantine as emperor decided to convert the
rest of the empire to cristianity that the cross of Mithras the Sun
God was used.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salvete ye sinners!
>
> Checked the web and:
>
> This abbreviation for Christmas is of Greek origin. The word for
> Christ in Greek is Xristos. During the 16th century, Europeans

began

> using the first initial of Christ's name, "X" in place of the word
> Christ in Christmas as a shorthand form of the word, especially in
> printing forms and calenders. Although the early Christians
> understood that X stood for Christ's name, later Christians who did
> not understand the Greek language mistook "Xmas" as a sign of
> disrespect.
>
> I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church (and I stress, "Roman").

Maybe

> because you had to know Latin to be a priest as well as having some
> exposure to Greek years ago, "I" never heard one complaint from the
> priests or nuns from the church in my lifetime.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus

So far it is The beginning of October but the actual dates are not
set in stone.
I will definately give you the dates once they are set.
I look forward to our meeting and my visit to Bari.
It has been too long since my last visit and Bari was not on my list
of places to go.
I have yet to even visit Sicily and this trip will finally include
Baveno and the Northern Lakes.
Mille grazie per tutto Piasono,
Non posso aspetare di conoscerti.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salve Ambrosius,
> no, the ruins in the west of the Palatin are under restoring and

the

> hill is closed for a not-determinated time. Now we know the area of
> the Temple of Magna MAter is closed to archeologists too.
> We hope to receive the authorization from the local office
> (Soprintendenza) to a little tour of the Temple.However this
> authorization is not so easy and only a litte group of 15-20
> citizens could visit the Temple.
> Please inform me if you're interesting. Do you come in Italy in
> October, is it right?
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
> <mballetta@h...> wrote:
> > Ciao Piasano e' Salve
> > E' possibile che sara aperto in Ottobre?
> > Ci veddiamo, vale
> >
> > Trans - Is it possible that it will be open in October?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
> > <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I'm writing to inform you all about the last news.
> > > Illustrus Legatus Marcus Iulius Perusianus is conitnuing his
> > > wonderful job in the Project of Restoration of the Temple of
> Magna
> > > Mater.
> > > After the meetings with the Soprintendenza Archeologica of Rome
> and
> > > the Prof. Pensabene of University La Sapienza of Rome, Director
> of
> > > the Palatine's ruins, in the last monday Perusianus have

visited

> > the
> > > hill with an assistant of Pensabene.
> > > The ruins are closed to the public and tourists, but thanks to
> this
> > > assistant, Perusianus entried in the ruins doing several

outdoor

> > > photos.
> > >
> > > The news are that maybe these photos will be exposed in a

little

> > > gallery during teh International Nova Roma Rally in Bologna

from

> > 1st
> > > to 3th August.
> > >
> > > Again we could organize a visit to a little group of Nova

Romans

> to
> > > the Temple. The tour will be authorized by the Soprintendenza
> and
> > > driven by Pensabene. Maybe this tour could be in October during
> a
> > > meeting of Proivincia Italia.
> > >
> > > As soon as possible other informations.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > > FAC

LOL, very true.
Sometimes there is too much emphasis on the seat position.
If it is up - put it down, if down, put it up, if where you want it -
leave well enough alone.
Thanks for the reply and the amusing annology.
I always appreciate a little levity to lighten the load.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Cornelius Sardonicus
<l_c_sardonicus@y...> wrote:

> Salve Marci Ambrosi Belisari,
>
>
> Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius <mballetta@h...> wrote:
> "Both parties are sincere in belief of their positions. It would

be a great asset to have it in black and white when deciding on which
faction to support and as evidence to substantiate claims as well as
denounce others. Sounds like a noble task for a dilligent scribe."

>
> LCS: Nothing is as black and white as it seems. These people are

not divided into two distinct camps at war with each other.

>
> It is a daunting task to search through the archives in order

subtantiate or denounce a claim regarding a previous post unless it
is cited or hyperlinked. I've been singularly unsuccessful in my
searches of the archives especially where the claim is of something
that happened a while ago. In the end, does it really matter if
Debatus called Bickerus a motherless coward over a debate on the
merits of leaving the toilet seat up or down?

>
> Instead of focusing on supporting a faction, I suggest you focus on

the worthiness of the individual, petition or proposal at hand.
Which way do YOU want the toilet seat?

>
> Vale,
> LCS
> (who is not a mindless follower of anything)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Kyrene,
You might enjoy the thread in the religio section which is discussing
this precise topic of the word Pagan - others share your viewpoint.
Vale
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kyrene Ariadne
<kyrene_ariadne@t...> wrote:

>
>
> "wuffa2001" <holyconelia@h...> wrote:
> > then 3 polls one for the churchs one for the wiccan and one for

the

> > other pagans ?
>
> Salve!
>
> Yeah, narrowing down the "Pagans" would help considerably--

especially for

> those like myself who don't use the term Pagan, given its extreme

confusion

> with all forms of Wicca. I prefer "Greek polytheist" myself.
>
>
> Vale,
> Andrea Gladia Cyrene
>
>
>
>
>
> * Kyrene Ariadne / Andrea Gladia Cyrene *
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> * Hellenion: http://www.hellenion.org *
> * Ai Mystai Greek Mysteries: http://ai-mystai.faithweb.com *
> * Temple of Apollon: http://www.TempleApollo.com *
> * Temple of Dionysos: http://www.TempleDionysos.com *
> * Temple of Aphrodite: http://www.TempleAphrodite.net *
> * ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:Kyrene Ariadne *
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account.

Salve,
Snip

> I Have heard claims from fundimentalists that the "X"
> in Xmas is some modern plot to "ex" Christ out of
> Christmas.
>

Of course they would but who can remember when christ "was in"
christmas. He was written out long ago and Santa Clause and Rudolph
replaced him in the commerciality of it all. It is a holiday to
celebrate the giving of gifts now.
Not to remember the Solstice, the longest night of the year or the
birth of the Sun God. It's ahallmark holiday.

> Sulla: Intersting...my parents uses Xmas as an abbreviation

too....and they were Christians...my mom converted from Judiasm to
Christianity before I was born.

>
> "X" or "XP" were been used as abbrevations for Christ
> at least since the time of Constitine, and likely
> longer than that.
>
> Sulla: Exactly...so, I would like to know where Caius Minucius

came up with his "opinion."

>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 7/2/03 7:45:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
politicog@... writes:

> My feeling is that he did what he felt was necessary
> to ensure the future success of Rome, and in that
> sense he could be considered a Machiavellian centuries
> before Machiavelli wrote "The Prince."
> I would appreciate any comments that others might
> have about this.
>

Q. Fabius Maximus SPD

Salvete


Most of what Nicci wrote was dragged from the Roman classics and just given
his 15th cent spin. The man himself was a Classicist His "Istorie" was just
that, not a true study of history in a classic sense but "our history" his own
history interpreted by him. So it is not surprising that both Alkibides, and
Augustus are two of his mentioned heroes.

When I worked on that wrenched TVM "Cleopatra" one of the Italian producers
keep telling that Augustus was the first CEO of a corporation. He saw Egypt as
competition to be merged with.
It is so tempting to assign modern values to ancient regimes, because then it
then all so easy to understand them. I'll never forgot my first university
classics Prof. giving out a vivid green handout saying "American European"
Under the American heading was Roman, and how Americans were like Romans.
Then under Europian was Greek, and how Europians were more like Hellenics.
Needless to say I didn't lean much in that class.

People are people. We are all driven by the same needs and desires. That's
why I find
NR so interesting and why I am a classical reconstructionist. Trying to get
the bridge
between both cultures is both a challenge and a delight.

Valete


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Honestly, I don't like this poll, even though I realize that it was made
with good intentions.

Once again, we are drawing lines on the floor and dividing ourselves into
little categories. Even with the long list of religions, we are slicing and
dicing it into even smaller pieces, just to make perfectly sure that we can
tick that perfect little box which fits us.

Aside, this poll won't be accurate since many citizens are subscribed only
to the Religio list and not to this one at all.

Valete,
Diana Moravia

.............and vice versa.
Many of todays business members are learning tactics from military
strategy.
As you mentioned The Prince.
So true that many were practicing these methods before Macchiavelli
put them into writing - he had great role models to go by.
As did Musashi for the Go Rin No Sho - book of 5 rings and Sun Tzu in
the Art of War.
All excellent books for strategy not only in war but in Life and
business.

When I first read Nicci in your post I thought at first you meant
Nietzche, MY BAD, lol and that is another topic for another time, lol.
Salve

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/2/03 7:45:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> politicog@y... writes:
>
>
> > My feeling is that he did what he felt was necessary
> > to ensure the future success of Rome, and in that
> > sense he could be considered a Machiavellian centuries
> > before Machiavelli wrote "The Prince."
> > I would appreciate any comments that others might
> > have about this.
> >
> Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
>
> Salvete
>
>
> Most of what Nicci wrote was dragged from the Roman classics and
just given
> his 15th cent spin. The man himself was a Classicist His "Istorie"
was just
> that, not a true study of history in a classic sense but "our
history" his own
> history interpreted by him. So it is not surprising that both
Alkibides, and
> Augustus are two of his mentioned heroes.
>
> When I worked on that wrenched TVM "Cleopatra" one of the Italian
producers
> keep telling that Augustus was the first CEO of a corporation. He
saw Egypt as
> competition to be merged with.
> It is so tempting to assign modern values to ancient regimes,
because then it
> then all so easy to understand them. I'll never forgot my first
university
> classics Prof. giving out a vivid green handout
saying "American European"
> Under the American heading was Roman, and how Americans were like
Romans.
> Then under Europian was Greek, and how Europians were more like
Hellenics.
> Needless to say I didn't lean much in that class.
>
> People are people. We are all driven by the same needs and
desires. That's
> why I find
> NR so interesting and why I am a classical reconstructionist.
Trying to get
> the bridge
> between both cultures is both a challenge and a delight.
>
> Valete
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> writes:

> Interesting, I have gone to California Baptist College/University (til
> about 6 years ago, and have been taught by preachers in various biblical
> classes), and have gone to Church til I was about 15 years old..and have
> been exposed to Christians every day and have never heard any reservation
> about it. And, have seen members of Church authority utilize the
> abbreviation. So, I guess its a draw.

As with so many things, individual experience varies. It's not
the sort of thing I generally think people are using to be offensive,
and I don't know that anyone has suggested that was the case.

> Personally, I am against all of this PC stuff....

I have little use for Political Correctness in the sense that the
term was invented to refer to in the old Soviet Union. I'll note
that I often see "PC" used to label the kind of conduct that I
think of as common courtesy, and I am all in favor of common
courtesy.

> its not really appropriate...and if there is no negativity
> in the post that was originally made then the abbreviation
> should not be an issue...

In that we agree.

> unless if you and your Cohort

Me and my Cohort? Would that be my Quaestor and my three scribes?

The Senior Consul has a cohort. I'm part of it, but I wouldn't
presume to call it mine.

> decide to try to promulgate a law against the use of abbreviations
> in the Nova Roma Main List.

I assure you that I don't intend any such thing Lucius Cornelius.
If someone were to suggest such a thing, I'd speak against it.

-- Gn. Equitius Marinus

Salvete omnes,

I would have to say that at his peak in age and power Augustus was
more conservative. He was concerned about the morals of the Romans
and tried to heavily promote the family and family values. Don't
forget he exiled his own daughter for sexual misbehavior and banished
the poet Ovid for is raunchy verses. On the social end of things he
would be considered conservative.

He was by no means the military calibre of Caesar, Anthony or others
but he was a shrewed politician and out foxed many strong opponents.
There were also the many reforms and ideas credited to him and I do
believe he was concerned for Rome's welfare and did not live in high
luxury. Therefore on the political end he was more liberal. Though
seemingly ruthless in his climb to power, he sure appeared to mellow
once he had settled in and matured. I think he was one of the
greatest Romans and whenever I think of Rome, I think of his busts
and statues first.


Regards,

Quintus

---

Salvete Diana et al.

Well, these 'divisions' it would seem to me are formed at the most
idiosynchratic times, whenever it seems convenient, infortunately. So
I don't think the formality of a poll does any worse damage, likely
less, because their is less personal ambition attached to a poll.
However, I'm inclined to regard the whole pole as unnecessary unless
I know the purpose for it other than 'to serve you better'

And, if we wish to add to the long list of religious affiliations, we
must not forget the Moravian Church....ahh, yes, the Moravian
Church....ahh, Christians I do believe.



Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> Honestly, I don't like this poll, even though I realize that it was

made

> with good intentions.
>
> Once again, we are drawing lines on the floor and dividing

ourselves into

> little categories. Even with the long list of religions, we are

slicing and

> dicing it into even smaller pieces, just to make perfectly sure

that we can

> tick that perfect little box which fits us.
>
> Aside, this poll won't be accurate since many citizens are

subscribed only

> to the Religio list and not to this one at all.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Moravia

Salve Laureate Amorice,

> I was pleased to see earlier today that the long awaited census is now on
> the way. After having quickly replied I would like to encourage all my
> fellow citizens to stand up and be counted ! At long last we will know soon
> how many of us are still up for a drink ;-)

Census underway? Did I miss something?

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

"Nam nemo sine vitiis nascitur; optimus ille est qui minima habet." -- Q. Horatius Flaccus

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Luci Corneli Sardonice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Cornelius Sardonicus
<l_c_sardonicus@y...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> We are not Romans living in the Republic. We are a modern micro-
> nation. Therefore, anything we do must be a compromise between
> historical accuracy and actions that best serve our citizens. If
> the historically accurate thing is also the thing that best serves
> our citizens then we are better off for both. I believe that we
> can also agree that historical correctness is not always the thing
> that best serves Nova Roma. What then, to do?
>
>
>
> Our constitution has the following mandates, "We hereby declare our
> Nation to stand as a beacon for those who would recreate the best
> of ancient Rome" and "The primary functions of Nova Roma shall be
> to promote the study and practice of pagan Roman civilizationÂ…
> encompassing such fields as religion, culture, politics, art,
> literature, language, and philosophy." My interpretation of this
> is that if there is historical precedent in answer to an issue, we
> should follow the precedent as closely as possible within our means
> providing that the solution isn't morally abhorrent. However, if
> there is no historical precedent or no verifiable record of one,
> conjecture regarding what the Romans might have done holds no
> value. In those cases, we have leeway in how we structure
> ourselves and conduct our business. In those cases, we can happily
> do what is best for our citizens without being remiss in fulfilling
> the constitutional mandate. Do these statements make me a
> traditionalist or a modernist? Neither, I believe. They make me
> a Nova Roman with our Micro-nation's best interests at heart.

<<snipped>>

I must thank you, Luci Corneli, for bringing back these ideas to the
discussion. I can certainly subscribe your thoughts above, and I have
the impression that an overwhelming majority of our citizens will
subscribe them as well.

Of course, we can still argue about finer details; but I generally
think that this statement is in the mind and heart of every
Novoroman.

Let's work together to make our Republic stronger, wider and more
Roman. All the rest (political bickering included) is mainly a waste
of time.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Can we pick more than one.

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma



Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Nova-Roma group:

In order to help build Nova Roma in
the Macro world , the physical Nova
Roma, we need to know what talents,
the Citizens of Nova Roma can bring to
this task. Please check those
occupations that apply to you. You
may also check one if you have an
AVOCATION that can be used to further
this goal of a physical Nova Roma.
Vale


o Occupation in architecture, engineering, and surveying
o Occupation in mathematics and physical sciences
o Occupation in life science
o Occupation in medicine and health
o Occupation in education/teaching
o Occupation in museum, library, and archival sciences
o Occupation in law and jurisprudence
o Occupation in religion and theology
o Occupation in writing/publishing
o Occupation in administrative specializations
o Other professional, technical, and managerial occupations
o Computing and account-recording occupations
o Sales occupation, all types of sales
o Amusement, recreation, motion picture, radio and television occupations
o Lodging and related service occupation
o Protective service occupation
o Plant farming / Animal farming occupation
o Construction occupation/ Transportation occupation
o Fishery /Forestry occupation /trapping, / Hunting and related occupation
o Occupation in extraction of minerals
o Occupation in production and distribution of utilities (e.g., energy, water, sewage)
o Occupation in processing of metal
o Occupation in processing of paper and related material
o Occupation in processing of petroleum, coal, natural and manufactured gas, and related products
o other/ DK/ Decline


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/surveys?id=11140313

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You should check out the Back Alley for other decent Polls.

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Collins
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma(Avocation)


Finally, a decent poll!

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVETE OMNES

Sorry, I can't see neither "atheist" nor "agnostic", while I think
that some citizen could wish them to be included in the poll. Or
should they fall under the "other" cathegory?

BENE VALETE
M'Con.Serapio

Three Viking longships pull up on shore.
Men of the first run up the beach waving their swords "By Odin 'tis our turn to pillage the monasteries and ransack the manors!"
Men of the second run up the beach waving axes over their head "By Thor, 'tis our turn to slay the men and slaughter all the cattle for a great feast!".
Men of the third stagger up the beach trying to keep each other upright "By Frigg, it can't be our turn *yet again* to ravish all those women!"

Caesariensis,

-----Original Message-----
From : “Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)“ <mjk@...>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 02 July 2003 18:33:06
Subject : [Nova-Roma] Re: Word Origins / Latin
Salve my friend Marce!

>
>

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVETE OMNES

Sorry, of course i referred to the poll on religion...

VALETE
M'Con.Serapio


AVETE OMNES

> Sorry, I can't see neither "atheist" nor "agnostic", while I think
> that some citizen could wish them to be included in the poll. Or
> should they fall under the "other" cathegory?
>
> BENE VALETE
> M'Con.Serapio

Salvete Quirites!

Two weeks ago I published a proposal for a lex governing the Comitia
Centuriata and especially the elections therein, the "Lex Fabia de
Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum". My aim was to get some points of
view to maybe improve my proposal. I had honestly tried to include
such historical ideas that I had recieved, but during the public
discussion Honorable Gaius Iulius Scaurus came forward with more
ideas for inclusion in such a law. As I am an amateur historian (BA,
with a major in History) with a distinct interest in the traditions
of Roma Antiqua I found his ideas very interesting and decided to
contact him.

This resulted in the fact that both of us and some of my assistants
partly or totally disappeared from the main list to do some
constructive work. Now we have arrived at the point were I will soon
be prepared to publish our joint work as a new proposal for a "Lex
Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum". We have only to add a
part, recommended by Gaius Iulius Scaurus, about the voting in the
case of a trial.

I am more of a doer and listener. There has been raised an idea about
mock elections and my Accensus Illustrus Gnaeus Equitius Marinus has
offered himself to organise such, as those who have asked for them
haven't shown any interest. These mock elections will soon be opened
by Illustrus Gnaeus Equitius Marinus in his capacity as Curule Aedile.

I plan to put forward this law to the Comitia during July if no
problems show during the mock elections. This will mean that there
will be some shortage of time as the vote must be adjusted to the
requirements of the Roman calender and as I will be going to the Nova
Roman Rally at the 31st of July.

I thank the citizens who have taken the time to write to me on this
matter for their advice and help. I look forward to the opportunity
to present a Lex incorporating so many good ideas.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

> > I was pleased to see earlier today that the long awaited census is now on
> > the way. After having quickly replied I would like to encourage all my
> > fellow citizens to stand up and be counted ! At long last we will know soon
> > how many of us are still up for a drink ;-)
>
> Census underway? Did I miss something?

If you paid your tax, voted in an election, registered your gens, or
became a citizen this year, you're counted already. 603 citizens
were counted this way.

The rest received mail this morning. Fifty have followed the link
thus far, a handful more have responded by email wishing to be citizens,
one resigned.

This weekend I'll be processing the list of bouncing email addresses
and building tools for Censores and Propraetores to update and
view citizen information.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:40:26AM -0400, qfabiusmaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/2/03 12:45:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> laureatusarmoricus@... writes:
>
>
> > What is IIRC ?
>
> If I recall

"If I recall correctly" is the usual meaning; there would not be any
need for a 'C'.

> AIRC
> As I recall
> IMO
> In my opinion
> SS
> Sources say
> These are all used in scholarly discussion e-mails
>
> Of course I have to Scaveola to task about the X in Christian.

That, I think you'd find beyond your ability. You're welcome to state
your opinion, of course.

> The Catholic
> Church uses
> it as an abbrevation in e-mail, which I doubt they would if it was
> derogatory.

The question was not whether it's derogatory in your opinion or that of
the Catholic Church (since I have not corresponded with them, I cannot
say whether your opinion is accurate, correct, false, policy, or other);
my statement was that it is often considered an offensive usage. Go to
<http://groups.google.com/> and search for the terms; you should find it
instructive.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
When two do the same thing, it isn't the same (i.e. one can get away with doing
something while another cannot).
-- Terence, "Adelphoe". Cf. "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

Salve Censor Octavi,

> If you paid your tax, voted in an election, registered your gens, or
> became a citizen this year, you're counted already. 603 citizens
> were counted this way.

I did at least one of the above, so that throws me in with 602 others. Not a bad lot, I might add.

> The rest received mail this morning. Fifty have followed the link
> thus far, a handful more have responded by email wishing to be citizens,
> one resigned.

Though it's not good to hear of anyone resigning, at least we know such a citizen either lacks interest or time in Nova Roma. Better that than staying on the rolls, but never doing anything.

> This weekend I'll be processing the list of bouncing email addresses
> and building tools for Censores and Propraetores to update and
> view citizen information.

Sounds good. Nice to see things moving so quickly. I suppose this means we have a census which can actually work! That's always a plus!

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus,
Taxpayer

Salvete omnes,

I found a good website for our newbies and no doubt some older Nova
Romans that organizes everything in a nutshell so you'll catch on to
the system quicker. I suggest you book mark the site and also print
off a copy to keep by your computer as political issues are discussed
on the ML. Hopefully everthing will fall into place.

http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romangvt.html


Now my question to the administration is this: In the macro world we
are allowed to go into our legistatures during certain times and
observe the proccedings and debates. Is there any way the citizens
here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly moderated
status where our government does its business; for example - how does
the censor department work, what knowledge is needed to keep the
records, how are the senate debates conducted (on various chat
systems?) how do our Quaestors organize our financing; what are the
mechanisms etc, how does our election department and the rogotars
organize and conduct their business. I realize there are limitations
because of personal privacy etc but is there any way tours could be
arranged? If not how does one learn? If someone wishes to run for
censor in 2 years, how is he groomed for the job for example?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve YES

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma


Can we pick more than one.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] New poll for Nova-Roma



Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Nova-Roma group:

In order to help build Nova Roma in
the Macro world , the physical Nova
Roma, we need to know what talents,
the Citizens of Nova Roma can bring to
this task. Please check those
occupations that apply to you. You
may also check one if you have an
AVOCATION that can be used to further
this goal of a physical Nova Roma.
Vale


o Occupation in architecture, engineering, and surveying
o Occupation in mathematics and physical sciences
o Occupation in life science
o Occupation in medicine and health
o Occupation in education/teaching
o Occupation in museum, library, and archival sciences
o Occupation in law and jurisprudence
o Occupation in religion and theology
o Occupation in writing/publishing
o Occupation in administrative specializations
o Other professional, technical, and managerial occupations
o Computing and account-recording occupations
o Sales occupation, all types of sales
o Amusement, recreation, motion picture, radio and television occupations
o Lodging and related service occupation
o Protective service occupation
o Plant farming / Animal farming occupation
o Construction occupation/ Transportation occupation
o Fishery /Forestry occupation /trapping, / Hunting and related occupation
o Occupation in extraction of minerals
o Occupation in production and distribution of utilities (e.g., energy, water, sewage)
o Occupation in processing of metal
o Occupation in processing of paper and related material
o Occupation in processing of petroleum, coal, natural and manufactured gas, and related products
o other/ DK/ Decline


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/surveys?id=11140313

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!







Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:16:22AM -0700, politicog wrote:
>
> Some Christians preceive other people's
> use of X in place of Christ as in effect erasing
> Christ from both Christmas and Christian, which some
> Christians take to be offensive.

AIUI, that was exactly what some people found offensive about the usage.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sed fugit interae, fugit irreparabile tempus.
But meanwhile, the irreplaceable time escapes.
-- Vergil, "Georgica". Usually, you only quote the last three words.

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:

>
> The question was not whether it's derogatory in your
> opinion or that of
> the Catholic Church (since I have not corresponded
> with them, I cannot
> say whether your opinion is accurate, correct,
> false, policy, or other);
> my statement was that it is often considered an
> offensive usage. Go to
> <http://groups.google.com/> and search for the
> terms; you should find it
> instructive.
>

It would be more accurate to say that people with
offensive ideas sometimes use the phrase xtian. So?
I doubt thare are many words or phrases in the English
language that some bigot or another hasn't used in an
offensive statement.

Chi(X) or Chi Rho "XP" have been abbrevations for
Christ for at least 17 centuries, were most likely
coined by Christians, and have been used by them for
that entire period.

It is also a phrase that has been used in Nova Roma
for years. Why the sudden objection? Is it due to the
phrase or due to the person who used it?


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve Quinte Amice et Magistratus Capitolini,

<cut>

> Now my question to the administration is this: In the macro world we
> are allowed to go into our legistatures during certain times and
> observe the proccedings and debates. Is there any way the citizens
> here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly moderated
> status where our government does its business; for example - how does
> the censor department work, what knowledge is needed to keep the
> records, how are the senate debates conducted (on various chat
> systems?) how do our Quaestors organize our financing; what are the
> mechanisms etc, how does our election department and the rogotars
> organize and conduct their business. I realize there are limitations
> because of personal privacy etc but is there any way tours could be
> arranged? If not how does one learn? If someone wishes to run for
> censor in 2 years, how is he groomed for the job for example?

As regards the Senate issue, I believe this debate happened sometime at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. In any case, the Senate doors are not open to the public. It happens to be the duty of the Tribuni Plebis to report to the people what goes on in the Senate. That said....

I myself would like to know how the Censores conduct their business, how they keep records, and the like, as well as how the Rogatores get the votes for each election, et cetera. I can say that I hope to attain the office of Censor someday (and by that point, it would most likely have changed greatly from what it is now), but before I run for any office, I too would like to know how the offices operate.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Tax Paying Citizen of New Rome

Avete Omnes,

There was a Censor handbook located at www.earthlink.net/~alexious. Created by myself and Oppius Flaccus Severus (ex-citizen) and my colleague at the time Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. It had a very good breakdown of the office of Censor including various scenarios that we (ex-Censors) have encountered in the past.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Sp. Postumius Tubertus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] POLITICAL OFFICES IN THE ROMAN REPUBLIC for NEW NOVA ROMANS


Salve Quinte Amice et Magistratus Capitolini,

<cut>

> Now my question to the administration is this: In the macro world we
> are allowed to go into our legistatures during certain times and
> observe the proccedings and debates. Is there any way the citizens
> here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly moderated
> status where our government does its business; for example - how does
> the censor department work, what knowledge is needed to keep the
> records, how are the senate debates conducted (on various chat
> systems?) how do our Quaestors organize our financing; what are the
> mechanisms etc, how does our election department and the rogotars
> organize and conduct their business. I realize there are limitations
> because of personal privacy etc but is there any way tours could be
> arranged? If not how does one learn? If someone wishes to run for
> censor in 2 years, how is he groomed for the job for example?

As regards the Senate issue, I believe this debate happened sometime at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. In any case, the Senate doors are not open to the public. It happens to be the duty of the Tribuni Plebis to report to the people what goes on in the Senate. That said....

I myself would like to know how the Censores conduct their business, how they keep records, and the like, as well as how the Rogatores get the votes for each election, et cetera. I can say that I hope to attain the office of Censor someday (and by that point, it would most likely have changed greatly from what it is now), but before I run for any office, I too would like to know how the offices operate.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Tax Paying Citizen of New Rome

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quinte Lani,

> Is there any way the citizens
> here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly moderated
> status where our government does its business;

Good idea.

Here's two hastily-captured screenshots of the Censors' tools:

http://www.novaroma.org/lookinside/editor.jpg
http://www.novaroma.org/lookinside/magistrate.jpg

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Ave, L. Cornelius Sulla -

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:59:59AM -0700, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
Ben Okopnik wrote:

> > Salve -
> >
> > I maintain a fairly large list of Internet acronyms at my web site -
> >
> > <http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.html>
> >
> > (One of these days, I'll turn it into a CGI search engine... but people
> > seem to like browsing it as is.)
> >
> > If you append a '#' sign and the acronym/initialism you're looking for,
> > you'll be taken right to the definition - for example:
> >
> > http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.html#YABSA
> >
> > Also, IME, "Xtian" is often considered an offensive usage.
> >
> > Sulla: Really....where did you come up with that opinion?

From my rather broad and long experience on Usenet. Over the years, I've
seen many flamewars erupt over it, which the usage of "Christian" would
have avoided. Ergo, in my opinion it seems sensible to spell it out - I
try to avoid insulting or offending people unintentionally.

> I would
> like to know...considering I learned using Xtian during my
> childhood, from my former preacher (non-denominatial)...who used it
> quite extensively as an abbreviation when writing on the chalkboard
> during Sunday Services. Considering that Christian followers
> usually used the X and P as letters in Jesus's name.

For me, it's a textbook example of the Golden Rule. If I was using the
abbreviated version and found that it bothered even a single person in a
casual conversation, I'd change it: the cost to me is nil, and it makes
things more pleasant for someone else. In fact, I did exactly that a
while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by many people
in favor of "Asian".


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Iniuria non excusat iniuriam.
One wrong does not justify another.
-- N/A

Salve Amice!

You are already on part of that road as my Accensus and Scriba to the
Curator Araneum. To become an Accensus or Scribe is the best way to
get to know how the job is done. If some one is interested you should
contact the Magistrate in question and tell him/her that You are
willing to work. ;-) This way You may become an Accensus, Legatus or
Scriba. Still it is good to not take on too many positions. ;-)

>I myself would like to know how the Censores conduct their business,
>how they keep records, and the like, as well as how the Rogatores
>get the votes for each election, et cetera. I can say that I hope to
>attain the office of Censor someday (and by that point, it would
>most likely have changed greatly from what it is now), but before I
>run for any office, I too would like to know how the offices operate.
>
>Valete,
>
>Sp. Postumius Tubertus
>Tax Paying Citizen of New Rome

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete,
I would like to point out that a citizen wishing to
learn how most of our offices work can offer to serve
as a Scriba and learn by actually working with the
staff instead of just observing them.

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
wrote:

> Salve Quinte Lani,
>
> > Is there any way the citizens
> > here can drop in on the various websites on a
> strictly moderated
> > status where our government does its business;
>
> Good idea.
>
> Here's two hastily-captured screenshots of the
> Censors' tools:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/lookinside/editor.jpg
> http://www.novaroma.org/lookinside/magistrate.jpg
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve gentlemen,

I think a few postings on this matter may have been be overlooked.
Anyway what Drusus says is correct. I grew up in the RC church;
priests in those days had to study Latin and have some exposure to
Greek and knew PX meant Chi Roh. You cannot and could not become a
priest without a university degree so they all knew about these
different issues and yes, the Roman and Greek world.
We used xmas all the time on greetings and stationary as did the
calenders to save space. I never heard 1 complaint from the RC church
at all. Unfortunately many Christians, though well read on the bible
do not know diddley squat about the socio-economic-political history
of Rome and the ancient world. Such statements of condemnation just
display a lack of understanding and these sensitivities and problems
are only going to get worse as history has been dropped as a
compulsory subject from many institutions.

Regards

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>
> --- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...> wrote:
>
> >
> > The question was not whether it's derogatory in your
> > opinion or that of
> > the Catholic Church (since I have not corresponded
> > with them, I cannot
> > say whether your opinion is accurate, correct,
> > false, policy, or other);
> > my statement was that it is often considered an
> > offensive usage. Go to
> > <http://groups.google.com/> and search for the
> > terms; you should find it
> > instructive.
> >
> It would be more accurate to say that people with
> offensive ideas sometimes use the phrase xtian. So?
> I doubt thare are many words or phrases in the English
> language that some bigot or another hasn't used in an
> offensive statement.
>
> Chi(X) or Chi Rho "XP" have been abbrevations for
> Christ for at least 17 centuries, were most likely
> coined by Christians, and have been used by them for
> that entire period.
>
> It is also a phrase that has been used in Nova Roma
> for years. Why the sudden objection? Is it due to the
> phrase or due to the person who used it?
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve,

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 09:35:05AM -0700, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> Ave,
>
> But your not a Christian. So, your post is irrelevant, then, since your not a Christian.

Erm... what, exactly, does that make _your_ "question", since you're not
a Christian either?


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.
What Jupiter may do, the ox may not.
(I.e., what is permitted for a high-ranking person isn't permitted for everybody.
Cf. aliis si licet, tibi non licet..)

Ave,

Interesting, I guess I do not hang around usenet enough, I get pretty disgusted by the ego waiving going on at soc.history.medieval to the point that they have developed a FAQ about a particular individual there named D. Spencer Hines, and its funny now that I think about it...but your posts resemble his...upon observation.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tha Back Alley


Ave, L. Cornelius Sulla -

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:59:59AM -0700, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
Ben Okopnik wrote:

> > Salve -
> >
> > I maintain a fairly large list of Internet acronyms at my web site -
> >
> > <http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.html>
> >
> > (One of these days, I'll turn it into a CGI search engine... but people
> > seem to like browsing it as is.)
> >
> > If you append a '#' sign and the acronym/initialism you're looking for,
> > you'll be taken right to the definition - for example:
> >
> > http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.html#YABSA
> >
> > Also, IME, "Xtian" is often considered an offensive usage.
> >
> > Sulla: Really....where did you come up with that opinion?

From my rather broad and long experience on Usenet. Over the years, I've
seen many flamewars erupt over it, which the usage of "Christian" would
have avoided. Ergo, in my opinion it seems sensible to spell it out - I
try to avoid insulting or offending people unintentionally.

> I would
> like to know...considering I learned using Xtian during my
> childhood, from my former preacher (non-denominatial)...who used it
> quite extensively as an abbreviation when writing on the chalkboard
> during Sunday Services. Considering that Christian followers
> usually used the X and P as letters in Jesus's name.

For me, it's a textbook example of the Golden Rule. If I was using the
abbreviated version and found that it bothered even a single person in a
casual conversation, I'd change it: the cost to me is nil, and it makes
things more pleasant for someone else. In fact, I did exactly that a
while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by many people
in favor of "Asian".


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Iniuria non excusat iniuriam.
One wrong does not justify another.
-- N/A

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 02:13:48PM -0400, qfabiusmaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/2/03 10:18:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> cordus@... writes:
>
>
> > I was simply trying to point out in a relatively
> > light-hearted way that it is possible to object to
> > something not because it is offensive but because it
> > is incorrect
>
> My dear Apollonius. I do not believe Lucius Cornelius is annoyed with you.
> I believe he is annoyed with the PC nature of this discussion to which you

^^

Note: "PC" means "politically correct" and not "QFM or LCS don't like
it". You can try to twist the meaning - both of you have - but it only
makes you look silly and adds nothing useful to the discussion. There's
nothing political, whether correct or incorrect, in the use of "Xtian"
vs. "Christian".


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is man's wolf.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"

Salve Romans

I have deleted the poll on religion. I apologize if I have upset
anybody.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Salvete, omnes -

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 04:54:35PM -0700, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> It would be more accurate to say that people with
> offensive ideas sometimes use the phrase xtian.

That's a pointless and patently false statement. It would be far less
accurate to say that, since - like the above - it conveys no useful
information. As Larry Wall said, "idiots are associated with
_everything._"

The above is also a very slick piece of maneuvering that I find to be
contrary to the spirit of honest discussion, since it attempts to place
the burden of proof on the person being offended instead of where it
belongs - on the offender.

Given your recent behavior on this list, I actually have no interest in
discussing anything at all with you. However, I'm still willing to point
out this kind of underhanded twisting so that others don't get caught by
it.

> It is also a phrase that has been used in Nova Roma
> for years. Why the sudden objection? Is it due to the
> phrase or due to the person who used it?

More foolish and manipulative innuendo. I don't remember who used it
first, although it was probably LCS. Someone here asked a question; I
answered it, and included pertinent information.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
A liar needs a good memory.
-- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"

Salvtee Civis Novae Romae,

NOVA ROMA is conducting its biannual census of citizens from
July 2 to October 22, 2003. If you have voted, paid your
annual fee, registered your gens, or joined within the current
year, then you have already been counted. If you have done none
of these things, then we request that you now participate in the
Census.

Those who do respond (which takes only seconds) will be counted
as full-fledged citizens of Nova Roma. Those who
do not respond to email, paper mail, or telephone call will be
reclassified as a "Socius" (Ally) rather than a citizen, and
will thereafter be unable to vote or be a paterfamliias until
requesting and regaining citizen status.

To register yourself as a citizen, go to:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/prefs?cmd=census

...and log in with your Roman Name and password. (If you've
forgotten your password you may easily reset it from here).

OR, you may simply reply to this message and state that you are
registering as a citizen (give your Roman name if you remember
it so we can be sure to credit the right person).

To check whether you are already registered, go to the web site's
Album Gentium:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes

...locate your gens; locate your name on your gens page; then
click your name to load your personal profile page. There, you will
see either "Citizen" or "Socius" next to the label "Status"; to
instantly move from Socius to Citizen, go to the census page as
described above.

Thanks and Valete,

C. Flavius Diocletianus et
M. Octavius Germanicus,
Censores.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:

> Salvete, omnes -
>
> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 04:54:35PM -0700, L.
> Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >
> > It would be more accurate to say that people with
> > offensive ideas sometimes use the phrase xtian.
>
> That's a pointless and patently false statement. It
> would be far less
> accurate to say that, since - like the above - it
> conveys no useful
> information. As Larry Wall said, "idiots are
> associated with
> _everything._"
>
> The above is also a very slick piece of maneuvering
> that I find to be
> contrary to the spirit of honest discussion, since
> it attempts to place
> the burden of proof on the person being offended
> instead of where it
> belongs - on the offender.
>

Laying burden of proof on the accuser rather than the
accused is a long standing concept that most consider
fair.

If someone enters this group and claims that the terms
"Christ" and "Christian" are offensive to them because
Christos means the anoited one, making the name a
claim that thier faith is the only true one, will you
launch a crusade to stop the use of the word
"Christian"?

Some people are offended by any usage of the word
"black" as a synonym for evil claiming it's racist.
Have you purged "Black Magic" and "Blackhearted" from
your vocabulary?


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:

> Chi(X) or Chi Rho "XP" have been abbrevations for
> Christ for at least 17 centuries, were most likely
> coined by Christians, and have been used by them for
> that entire period.
>
> It is also a phrase that has been used in Nova Roma
> for years. Why the sudden objection? Is it due to the
> phrase or due to the person who used it?

My dear Senator Drusus,

I can assure you that I've seen Scaevola (in his alter ego
as Ben) voice the same objection in at least two USENET
newsgroups in the years I've known him. He's quite
consistent about this.

-- Marinus

--- Bill Gawne <gawne@...> wrote:

> "L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:
>
> > Chi(X) or Chi Rho "XP" have been abbrevations for
> > Christ for at least 17 centuries, were most likely
> > coined by Christians, and have been used by them
> for
> > that entire period.
> >
> > It is also a phrase that has been used in Nova
> Roma
> > for years. Why the sudden objection? Is it due to
> the
> > phrase or due to the person who used it?
>
> My dear Senator Drusus,
>
> I can assure you that I've seen Scaevola (in his
> alter ego
> as Ben) voice the same objection in at least two
> USENET
> newsgroups in the years I've known him. He's quite
> consistent about this.
>
> -- Marinus
>

It's been years since I've been in Usenet, so I wasn't
aware of that. This is still the first time I've seen
a complaint about a term that is widly used in Nova
Roma.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" wrote:

>
> Salve gentlemen,
>
> I think a few postings on this matter may have been be overlooked.
> Anyway what Drusus says is correct. I grew up in the RC church;
> priests in those days had to study Latin and have some exposure to
> Greek and knew PX meant Chi Roh. You cannot and could not become a
> priest without a university degree so they all knew about these
> different issues and yes, the Roman and Greek world.

Yes, my experience matches yours. I grew up in the Roman Catholic
church, learned the mass in Vulgate Latin, and saw the papal flag
with the Chi Rho symbol on it all the time.

> We used xmas all the time on greetings and stationary as did the
> calenders to save space. I never heard 1 complaint from the RC church
> at all.

In this my experience differs from yours. I can assure you that
at St. Benedict's parish, in the Archdioces of Detroit, the nuns
would have given a severe tongue-lashing to anyone who dared
use X-mas as an abbreviation. It was not only frowned upon, but
actively spoken against in every year's religion class from 1st
through 8th grade.

-- Marinus

Salve,
unfortunate. I was actually rather interested to know if I am the only
Muslim in Nova Roma. ah well.
Vale,
Claudia Fabia Calpurnia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:44 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Religion Poll


> Salve Romans
>
> I have deleted the poll on religion. I apologize if I have upset
> anybody.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Salvete Gentlemen,

Thank you for all your responses; I saw Censor Octavius' site and
working as a scribe is a good idea for learning the ropes. I'll write
privately on that to some of you very soon. Please forgive the bold
capitalization of this topic. I just wanted to get the attention of
some of our newbies so they can grab the stick diagram and summary.

Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve,

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:16:33PM -0700, L. Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Interesting, I guess I do not hang around usenet enough, I get pretty
> disgusted by the ego waiving going on at soc.history.medieval to the
> point that they have developed a FAQ about a particular individual
> there named D. Spencer Hines, and its funny now that I think about
> it...but your posts resemble his...upon observation.

<Chuckle> I can come up with a number of comparisons to what your posts
resemble, but most of them relate to the byproducts of animal husbandry
and waste disposal (although, according to Marshal McLuhan, even those
would contain a single bit of information - which strengthens the
parallel tremendously.)

I realize that you were attempting to display your extremely modest wit,
but I'll ask you not to bother: I'm simply not interested. What you
think of as your sense of humor is non-existent; you're dull,
unintelligent, unsubtle, and - worst of all in this regard - unfunny.
You're too slow to do interesting repartee, your conversational skills
are miniscule, and you're boring.

In other words - since the above is probably too complex for you to
comprehend - shog off.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is man's wolf.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 06:05:09PM -0700, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

>
> --- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:
> > Salvete, omnes -
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 04:54:35PM -0700, L.
> > Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > >
> > > It would be more accurate to say that people with
> > > offensive ideas sometimes use the phrase xtian.
> >
> > That's a pointless and patently false statement. It
> > would be far less
> > accurate to say that, since - like the above - it
> > conveys no useful
> > information. As Larry Wall said, "idiots are
> > associated with
> > _everything._"
> >
> > The above is also a very slick piece of maneuvering
> > that I find to be
> > contrary to the spirit of honest discussion, since
> > it attempts to place
> > the burden of proof on the person being offended
> > instead of where it
> > belongs - on the offender.
> >
>
> Laying burden of proof on the accuser rather than the
> accused is a long standing concept that most consider
> fair.

The offender *is* the accuser. The person offended is the accused.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is man's wolf.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"

Salvete Quirites,
This post is a prime example of why Caius Minucius
Scaevola is the LAST person in Nova Roma who should be
lecturing people about using offensive terms.

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:16:33PM -0700, L.
> Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > Interesting, I guess I do not hang around usenet
> enough, I get pretty
> > disgusted by the ego waiving going on at
> soc.history.medieval to the
> > point that they have developed a FAQ about a
> particular individual
> > there named D. Spencer Hines, and its funny now
> that I think about
> > it...but your posts resemble his...upon
> observation.
>
> <Chuckle> I can come up with a number of comparisons
> to what your posts
> resemble, but most of them relate to the byproducts
> of animal husbandry
> and waste disposal (although, according to Marshal
> McLuhan, even those
> would contain a single bit of information - which
> strengthens the
> parallel tremendously.)
>
> I realize that you were attempting to display your
> extremely modest wit,
> but I'll ask you not to bother: I'm simply not
> interested. What you
> think of as your sense of humor is non-existent;
> you're dull,
> unintelligent, unsubtle, and - worst of all in this
> regard - unfunny.
> You're too slow to do interesting repartee, your
> conversational skills
> are miniscule, and you're boring.
>
> In other words - since the above is probably too
> complex for you to
> comprehend - shog off.
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Homo homini lupus.
> Man is man's wolf.
> -- Plautus, "Asinaria"
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salvete omnes,

I was thinking over the last few days of why people resign from NR.
I'm not talking about our political offices but totally leaving the
NR group. To begin with, most of us observed NR on the main list for
a time and got some idea of what is in store for us. That may be the
point to make our yes or no decision. You know, its a little more
sensible to break off a from a troubled relationship before a
marriage rather than after. We all get heated up or down right
frustrated after nasty debates. I confess there were a few times
during the year when I felt like sticking my hand through the
computer srceen and wringing someone's neck, just like on the Bugs
Bunny Cartoons. I spoke up a few times about moving heated nasty
debates to another list but other fellow citizens gave some valid
reasons why we should not do so.

My only question to those who would pull the plug on Nova Roma
because sombody's statements offended them is this: Where are you
going to run to in the world where you shall be free of these
troubles? I tried pointing that out to a lady last year who was
leaving and thought the Academic universities would be the answer and
be able to handle things with dignity. Nonsense I said. Here is what
I have experienced:

1) Universities - A few of my neighbours were profs. They told me the
stories of the infighting, back stabbing and posturing, especially
around tenure and grant times. Publish or perish was their motto.

2) Military - Dad was a senior Naval officer. Mom always told me
about the hypocracy and back biting and shennanigans. Still see that
with my friends who serve.

3) Oil Patch - Yep, my foray; thousands of these stories and the
finger pointing when things go wrong. I am currently treading
carefully as I am in the field working for 2 geologists who are
having some political differences on this project.

4) Health Care - Lots of conflicts there. Got my earfulls when we
used to party with the nurses on weekends.

5) Corporate World - Self explanitory.

6) Churches/religious institutions - Sometimes dwarf all of the above
with their internal politics.

Well the list could go on and on. I think we all have to learn to be
a little thicker skinned. The only time we'll ever get away from this
will certainly be time enough - in the grave.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Drennan" <dragonpink@s...>
wrote:

> Salve,
> unfortunate. I was actually rather interested to know if I am the

only

> Muslim in Nova Roma. ah well.
> Vale,
> Claudia Fabia Calpurnia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:44 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Religion Poll
>

Salve Claudia,

My friend Tiberius is very honorable and a true Roman with good ideas
who works very hard for us. I can't read his mind but if he got the
slightest inkling that a poll like this could evolve into something
ugly he would not hesitate to pull it.

When we all signed up for NR we knew that the Religio Romano is the
state religion and must be respected and tolerated; especially by
magistrates. The religio in turn, also tolerates our single-god
beliefs and membership in this community. Now suppose the pole at
this date and time showed 95% of us were not practitioners of the
Religio Romano, then I could see the stats being used as a weapon to
alter the status of the religio somewhere down the line in future.
This of course could tear NR to pieces and finish it for good. Also
we must appreciate that this whole institution was founded an
organized mostly by the people who wished to practice and make
Religio Romano as one of the main pillars. For these reasons I think
some things are better left unsaid. I confess, I got talked into
setting up a poll here last year asking people on their thoughts of
the afterlife and deities but a number of people wrote in to request
a cancellation of the poll; I only got 12 replies which I regarded as
a polite way of telling me to piss off.

On a more positive note maybe some other Muslim members may see these
2 postings and contact you in private or on the ML. Please let us
know what transpires.


Regards,

Quintus

G. Iulius Scaurus M. Octavio Solari salutem dicit.

Salve, M. Octavi.

> MOS: Oh, I wasn't saying that they belonged to the same declension. I said that <dignitas> and <paterfamilias> was the only correct way of spelling the expression. I wasn't making any grammatical points. Thanks for the explanation anyway, because I have always been a bit unsure what to do with that <-familias>-ending.
>
> So, a borrowed Greek infinitive? Pretty funny for a word that is so typically associated with the Roman way of life! :)

There are actually a large number of Greek borrow words. It is thought
by many philologists that the fossilization of the noun in the Latin-
indeclinable Greek genitive form is a signal that the borrowing took
place at a few early stage of the formation of archaic Latin. As I
indicated in my original answer to A. Apollonius' query about
"paterfamilias," some Latin grammarians regarded "familias" as if it
were an indeclinable enclitic (like -que, for example) and simply
declined "pater," appending "familias." Others advocated separating
"pater" and "familias" into a phrase, decdlining "patres" as needed
and treating "familias" as simply a variant form of "familia," which
was rendered into the dative "familiae" or "familiis," depending on the
number of "pater." Still others treasted "familias" as if it were a
substantive adjective, taking the case and number of "patres." Other
still, particularly in late antiquity, treated "familias" as a variant
of "familia" and rendered it as genitive singular or plural depending
on the number of "pater." The orthography could range from
indeclinable word-element to element of a phrase demanding any of
several cases and numbers; in that regard the spelling procedures
involved with "dignitas" and "paterfamilias" can be very different
indeed.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:

> Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> > yes, I agree Domitianus, you have to add atheists and agnostics.
>
> And "Catholic (Not Roman)" for any Reformed Catholics, United
> Catholics, Old Catholics, etc... who are still Catholics but
> who are in formal disagreement with the Vatican.
>
> -- Marinus

Salve,

Marinus is correct. There are other autocephelis churches that go by
the name Catholic, Polish National Catholic for one, that are not in
formal union with the Holy See. (There is a difference between the
Vatican and the Holy See, the Vatican is a nation, the Holy See is
the office of the Pope.) There are also Eastern Rite Catholics, such
as Ukranian, Maronite, and Melkite, whose Bishops are in formal union
with the Holy See. Strictly speaking Roman Catholic is only the
Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, and no matter how much the
Maronite Rite is in union with the Holy See, they would be insulted
to be called "Roman Catholic."

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:21:30PM -0700, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Salvete Quirites,
> This post is a prime example of why Caius Minucius
> Scaevola is the LAST person in Nova Roma who should be
> lecturing people about using offensive terms.

Whereas a rabid-weasel grudge-harboring psychotic like you is the one to
lecture on matters of morality. Of course.

Yep... that's about enough of you for a lifetime.

*Plonk!*


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Terence, "Phormio"

Salvete,

My goodness! Bit stiff, isn't it? Many of the respondents aren't
Xian or Christian or whatever everyone determines is okay to call
it.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:

> Ave,
>
> But your not a Christian. So, your post is irrelevant, then, since

your not a Christian.

>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: A. Apollonius Cordus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:31 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] "Xtian" (WAS: Tha Back Alley)
>
>
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
> Maximus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> Regarding the offensiveness of the abbreviation
> 'Xtian", you wrote:
> > Of course I have to Scaveola to task about the X in
> > Christian. The Catholic Church uses it as an
> > abbrevation in e-mail, which I doubt they would if
> > it was derogatory.
>
> I am sure the Catholic Church has no objection to
> 'Xian' as a shortened form of 'Christian': as others
> have already said, the 'X' is just a Chi standing in
> for the word 'Christ'
>
> But if I were a Christian, I *would* be offended, or
> at least puzzled, to be called a 'Xtian', since this
> would suggest either:
> - that I was a 'Christtian' - a follower of someone
> called Christt - or:
> - that the 'X' stands only for the first 5 letters of
> the word 'Christian', and that all Christians are
> followers of someone called Chris.
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
> www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk
>

Wow....D. Spencer Hines.....when did you come to the Nova Roma Mail list! Welcome to Nova Roma!

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=D.+Spencer+Hines+Faq&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=B4CF6F26.5C04%25mwcook%40globalnet.co.uk&rnum=1 (link to D. Spencer Hines Faq page).

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tha Back Alley


On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:21:30PM -0700, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
> This post is a prime example of why Caius Minucius
> Scaevola is the LAST person in Nova Roma who should be
> lecturing people about using offensive terms.

Whereas a rabid-weasel grudge-harboring psychotic like you is the one to
lecture on matters of morality. Of course.

Yep... that's about enough of you for a lifetime.

*Plonk!*


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Terence, "Phormio"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.

> Interesting, I guess I do not hang around usenet enough, I get pretty >disgusted by the ego waiving going on at soc.history.medieval to the >point that they have developed a FAQ about a particular individual >there named D. Spencer Hines, and its funny now that I think about >it...but your posts resemble his...upon observation.

While C. Minucius' posts not infrequently include what I would regard
as ill-considered and intemperate language, he is not in D. Spencer
Hines' league. In fact, I have never encountered anyone in NR who is
within ten standard deviations of being as much a consumate, venomous,
anti-semitic asshole as Hines. No one here has stalked another
citizen, nor attempted to persuade an employer to discharge another
citizen, nor published to the internet private, personal information of
interest to identity thieves about another citizen. If the Christian
hell, in which I do not believe, were to exist, I would expect
eventually to find Hines there burnishing the arse of his intellectual
kinsman Adolf Hitler with his lips, a few feet from Satan's throne in
the deepest, frozen region described by Dante.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve:

Participles in Latin is a big question, but the answer you're looking
for may be very simple.

The participle (participium) is something in between a noun (nomen)and a
verb (verbum). It is not exactly a verb and not quite a noun so they
called it a participle, and it functions as adjective with a verbal aspect,
and in Latin they decline like a noun, that is, change endings according to
their function in the sentence.

Examples of participles:

She is a LOVING person.

He is EATING the apple.

Both are participles, and that's really the gist of it.

I hope that helps.

Vale

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator




----Original Message Follows----
From: Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla <hedeabianchia@...>
Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] participles
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:55:15 -0400

Does anyone have any helpful hints for understanding, remembering, and
using participles? I have a hard time with them in English, and in Latin it
is almost unbearable.

Dryantilla

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here a links to a few of William Harris' delightful essays on Latin
philology:

"The Pronunciation of Latin: Ancient and Modern Pronunciations":

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/LatinBackground/
Pronunciation.html

"Phonematic Length of Latin Vowels":

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/LatinBackground/
PhonemicLength.html

"How to Read Latin Poetry":

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/LatinBackground/
PoetryandReadingVerse.html

"Stress and Accent in Latin Prose":

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/LatinBackground/
Stress.Pronunciation.html

Harris (Emeritus, Middlebury College), always outspoken and
extraordinarily erudite, has made available some of the best resources
for the teaching and study of Latin on the internet.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete Consul Quintilliane et Alii Lectores,

> You are already on part of that road as my Accensus and Scriba to the
> Curator Araneum. To become an Accensus or Scribe is the best way to
> get to know how the job is done. If some one is interested you should
> contact the Magistrate in question and tell him/her that You are
> willing to work. ;-) This way You may become an Accensus, Legatus or
> Scriba. Still it is good to not take on too many positions. ;-)

This last point is true, as I am rapidly finding! ;-) I've given thought to offering to be a Legatus (and, perhaps, Praetor Provincialis someday), but at the time the option was open to me, I was far too new to Nova Roma (in fact, I was nowhere near being a citizen at that point), and still a bit too young to take on that responsibility. But I should hope I am on my way to becoming Consul someday by working under some of the best.

Aside: As a note to the others who may be reading this, if any of you are considering running for Aedile or Praetor next year, and are in need of a scribe, my e-mail address is listed in the Album Civium (with about three alternates). Don't hesitate to write! Please!! I have prior experience!!! ::End Aside

Valete Consul et Lectores,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus
Faithful Accensus, Scriba, Retiarius, and Tax Paying Citizen

Salve, G. Iuli -

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 05:15:30AM -0000, GÂ¥IVLIVSÂ¥SCAVRVS wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.
>
> > Interesting, I guess I do not hang around usenet enough, I get pretty >disgusted by the ego waiving going on at soc.history.medieval to the >point that they have developed a FAQ about a particular individual >there named D. Spencer Hines, and its funny now that I think about >it...but your posts resemble his...upon observation.
>
> While C. Minucius' posts not infrequently include what I would regard
> as ill-considered and intemperate language, he is not in D. Spencer
> Hines' league.

While "intemperate" is purely a matter of opinion, "ill-considered" is
no more than faulty guesswork on your part. The fact that you're expert
in Roman history is quite a large coin here, and your learning in that
area is admirable, but I'd suggest watching those potshots; they may
ricochet.

> In fact, I have never encountered anyone in NR who is
> within ten standard deviations of being as much a consumate, venomous,
> anti-semitic asshole as Hines. No one here has stalked another
> citizen, nor attempted to persuade an employer to discharge another
> citizen, nor published to the internet private, personal information of
> interest to identity thieves about another citizen. If the Christian
> hell, in which I do not believe, were to exist, I would expect
> eventually to find Hines there burnishing the arse of his intellectual
> kinsman Adolf Hitler with his lips, a few feet from Satan's throne in
> the deepest, frozen region described by Dante.

Nice description. What was that bit about "intemperate", again? Or is
there some as-yet-unknown reason that you're allowed to express strong
negative opinions while others aren't?


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for example in physics."

In a message dated 7/2/03 5:09:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ben@...
writes:

> In fact, I did exactly that a
> while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by many people
> in favor of "Asian".
>
>

Except in ancient texts of course. If I translated Oriental to mean Asian,
I'd be drummed out
of the league of military historians

Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 02:24:26AM -0400, qfabiusmaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/2/03 5:09:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ben@...
> writes:
>
>
> > In fact, I did exactly that a
> > while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by many people
> > in favor of "Asian".
> >
> >
>
> Except in ancient texts of course. If I translated Oriental to mean Asian,
> I'd be drummed out
> of the league of military historians

Oh, without a doubt. There's very little that's universally true, and
/reductio ad absurdum/ can be useful as a tool to find the limits of
applicability - but here, the limits are obvious and reasonably well
defined. I'll continue to use "Oriental" where it's appropriate, as in
the above case, but not to describe, e.g., a conversational partner.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu.
The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live.
-- Seneca Philosophus, "Epistulae"

Salve Pauline et omnes,

Dixit Paulinus :

"My only question to those who would pull the plug on Nova Roma
because sombody's statements offended them is this: Where are you
going to run to in the world where you shall be free of these
troubles? I tried pointing that out to a lady last year who was
leaving and thought the Academic universities would be the answer and
be able to handle things with dignity"

Respondeo : A very good point, Lani Pauline. However, if I talk from my own
experience, it is not so much the infighting that led some us to leave but
the fact that we do not see each other often enough. What is the point in
struggling for something you think is right only to see the results
electronically ? i am for example a member of an archaelogical association
with apparent link to the real world (ie site visits, meetings, news letter,
AGM etc). Although I am sure some nasty business can happen here and there
such an association has the advantage of providing "real" benefits and a
sense of belonging.

Fortunately i feel NR is now heading that way. The census will remove a lot
of dead wood, meetings are being organised and people clearly want to get in
touch with one another more than by e-mail. This is why I came back. I hope
that explain some of the leavers' line of thought.

Optime valete
Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

Salve Sulla,
the URL don't run ... "page not found"!
Maybe you're hiding it because you feel ashamed to have written
it ... :-)
Don't worry, it's a joke. :-))
I'm very interesting to read your handbook, where I can find it.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:

> Avete Omnes,
>
> There was a Censor handbook located at

www.earthlink.net/~alexious. Created by myself and Oppius Flaccus
Severus (ex-citizen) and my colleague at the time Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus. It had a very good breakdown of the office of Censor
including various scenarios that we (ex-Censors) have encountered in
the past.

>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sp. Postumius Tubertus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] POLITICAL OFFICES IN THE ROMAN REPUBLIC

for NEW NOVA ROMANS

>
>
> Salve Quinte Amice et Magistratus Capitolini,
>
> <cut>
>
> > Now my question to the administration is this: In the macro

world we

> > are allowed to go into our legistatures during certain times

and

> > observe the proccedings and debates. Is there any way the

citizens

> > here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly

moderated

> > status where our government does its business; for example -

how does

> > the censor department work, what knowledge is needed to keep

the

> > records, how are the senate debates conducted (on various chat
> > systems?) how do our Quaestors organize our financing; what

are the

> > mechanisms etc, how does our election department and the

rogotars

> > organize and conduct their business. I realize there are

limitations

> > because of personal privacy etc but is there any way tours

could be

> > arranged? If not how does one learn? If someone wishes to run

for

> > censor in 2 years, how is he groomed for the job for example?
>
> As regards the Senate issue, I believe this debate happened

sometime at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. In
any case, the Senate doors are not open to the public. It happens to
be the duty of the Tribuni Plebis to report to the people what goes
on in the Senate. That said....

>
> I myself would like to know how the Censores conduct their

business, how they keep records, and the like, as well as how the
Rogatores get the votes for each election, et cetera. I can say that
I hope to attain the office of Censor someday (and by that point, it
would most likely have changed greatly from what it is now), but
before I run for any office, I too would like to know how the
offices operate.

>
> Valete,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus
> Tax Paying Citizen of New Rome
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus Hedeae Bianchiae Dryantillae salutem dicit.

Salve, H. Biancha.

Allen and Greenough's _New Latin Grammar_ can be found at the Perseus
Project and Middlebury College:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=
Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/AG_1.html

Orbis Latinus has William Harris' _The Intelligent Person's Guide to
the Latin Language_:

http://www.orbilat.com/Latin/Alternative_Grammars/index.html

Both have discussions of the grammar, syntax and morphology of Latin
participles. If you have further questions after consulting these two
grammars, please feel free to email me for other citations.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Gee, I wonder where the steerotype that Linux nerds
are scantimonus elitist dweebs utterly lacking in
social skills came from?

Couldn't be anyone we know could it?

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:21:30PM -0700, L.
> Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites,
> > This post is a prime example of why Caius Minucius
> > Scaevola is the LAST person in Nova Roma who
> should be
> > lecturing people about using offensive terms.
>
> Whereas a rabid-weasel grudge-harboring psychotic
> like you is the one to
> lecture on matters of morality. Of course.
>
> Yep... that's about enough of you for a lifetime.
>
> *Plonk!*
>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
> Fortune favours the brave.
> -- Terence, "Phormio"
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salvete Praetores,

I believe in freedom of speech, but C Minucius emails are not expressing an
opinion at all regarding Nova Roma and the current issues. It is bandwidth
for the specific purpose of intimidating citizens so much that he/she will
not speak anymore.

Please resend me the list guidelines. I would like to see for myself whether
the following comments are within them:

-referring to another citizen as "rabid-weasel grudge-harboring psychotic?
- referring to another citizen as 'dull, unintelligent, unsubtle"
-telling a fellow citizen to "shog off", which is a censored version of
"fuck off" but has the same meaning.

The list above can go and on since he sends this type of email on a daily
basis.

Vale,
Diana Moravia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
Cornelius Sulla, Senator & Consular Q. Fabius Maximus,
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> My dear Apollonius. I do not believe Lucius
> Cornelius is annoyed with you. I believe he is
> annoyed with the PC nature of this discussion to
> which you just added an amusing additional brick.
> In otherwords it is not dying. But seems to be
> enduring.

After reading this and then re-reading the whole
thread, I think I've managed to understand what's
happened. Senator Sulla, I think it was in response to
a message of yours that someone asked for the meaning
of 'Xtian' or 'Xian', whichever it was, and among the
responses to that question was the statement of
Minucius Scaevola that some Christians find the usage
offensive. What I have only just understood is that -
and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm only
guessing - you felt this to be a criticism, since you
had used the abbreviation with no offensive intent.

If this is so, then I can now understand why you are
frustrated with the general thread, and why you
responded so curtly to my contribution. Had I
understood this at the time, I wouldn't have been so
put out by your response, so please ignore it. I
certainly didn't mean to suggest that your use of the
term was intended to be offensive, or that I found it
offensive.

In fact I have to agree with Senator Maximus that this
discussion has gone on longer than it really needed
to, considering that no one has actually said they
found the comment offensive. Scaevola's comment was
not a criticism, I think, but just a point of
information: he was not suggesting that you shouldn't
have said it, just that some people might take it the
wrong way. It seems a series of misunderstandings has
caused us all to get upset over almost nothing.

So I'm sorry for my last curt message on this topic,
and I hope you won't take it badly; likewise I take no
offense at yours.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

> > In fact, I did exactly that a
> > while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by many people
> > in favor of "Asian".
>
> Except in ancient texts of course.

Or on the signage of about a dozen grocery stories around Lawrence Avenue,
each of which proudly proclaims itself an "Oriental Supermarket".
Apparently, the owners of such businesses aren't bothered by the term.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:

>
> > > In fact, I did exactly that a
> > > while ago when I found out that "Oriental" was deprecated by

many people

> > > in favor of "Asian".
> >
> > Except in ancient texts of course.
>
> Or on the signage of about a dozen grocery stories around Lawrence

Avenue,

> each of which proudly proclaims itself an "Oriental Supermarket".
> Apparently, the owners of such businesses aren't bothered by the

term.

>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/

Salve Marce,

1) LOL. I think changing names for political correctness is getting
rather silly. We have a mountain in Alberta called Chinaman's Peak
that a Chinese railroad worker climbed in record time to win some
sort of bet in the late 19th century. People got in an uproar about
changing the name to Ling Tao or something. There was a huge fight in
the media and especially on radio talk shows. Some conservatve
announcer jumped in the fray and said " Judas H priest. What's wrong
with you people, jeez - we say Frenchman, Irishman, Scotsman,
Englishman; what was ever the problem with Chinaman? That debate
certainly eclipsed many of ours.

2) I read some years back that many schools wanted to edit the Tom
Sawyer and Huckleberry fin books because the "n" word was used 30 or
40x. That was then and that was the reality of the south. Well if we
were take our present books or movies and time ship them back 50 -
100 years the casual use of the "f" word, "mofo" etc would not be
socially acceptable and treated with comtempt as the "n" word is now.

3) We are lucky that the ultra conservative climate in the 18th and
19th century did not use their political correct ideas and sand scrub
off all the obscene grafitti on the walls of Pompeii and many other
Roman sites.

Well I hope we don't get carried away with this!


On this note here is another interesting word origin - Wog!

It is of course an offensive term but its origin kind of ties in to
this thread. Apparently in WW1 the Egyptians, Arabs and East Indians
were doing a great job helping the British defeat the Ottoman Empire
in the middle east. Unfortunately the British treated the more
colored people with contempt and disrespect. General Kitchener was
smart enough to see the problem so he issued this order to the
Btitish military authorities " From now on you will cease calling our
gallant allies ni..s, kaffirs, fuzzywuzzies, bush monkeys,
spearchuckers etc. You are ordered to refer to them as " Worthy
Oriental Gentlemen!" Hence they came up with the acronym "wog" to of
course bypass the regulation.



Regards,

Quintus

> Salve Claudia,
>
> My friend Tiberius is very honorable and a true Roman with good ideas
> who works very hard for us. I can't read his mind but if he got the
> slightest inkling that a poll like this could evolve into something
> ugly he would not hesitate to pull it.
>
> When we all signed up for NR we knew that the Religio Romano is the
> state religion and must be respected and tolerated; especially by
> magistrates. The religio in turn, also tolerates our single-god
> beliefs and membership in this community. Now suppose the pole at
> this date and time showed 95% of us were not practitioners of the
> Religio Romano, then I could see the stats being used as a weapon to
> alter the status of the religio somewhere down the line in future.
> This of course could tear NR to pieces and finish it for good. Also
> we must appreciate that this whole institution was founded an
> organized mostly by the people who wished to practice and make
> Religio Romano as one of the main pillars. For these reasons I think
> some things are better left unsaid. I confess, I got talked into
> setting up a poll here last year asking people on their thoughts of
> the afterlife and deities but a number of people wrote in to request
> a cancellation of the poll; I only got 12 replies which I regarded as
> a polite way of telling me to piss off.
>
> On a more positive note maybe some other Muslim members may see these
> 2 postings and contact you in private or on the ML. Please let us
> know what transpires.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus

Salve,
Oh, I perfectly understand, ans would not want anything to happen that would
endanger Nova Roma in that way. I was looking at it from more of a curiosity
stand point, things like that interest me. And if ther are other Muslims on
this list, I would really like to meet them.
Vale,
Claudia Fabia Calpurnia

Salve Diana
Any word on how all the voting went?

Vale

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: tribunes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:49 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Senate is now in session


Salvete citizens of Nova Roma!

The auspices were taken by Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and having
found to be propitious, Junior Consul T Labienus Fortunatus has convened the
Senate. The discussions began at 1 AM Roman time on June 26 and will
continue through 1 AM Roman time on June 29th. Voting shall start
immediately thereafter, lasting until 1 AM Roman time on July 1st.

Since July 1st is a dies nefastus* and is not suitable for voting following
the decreta of the Collegium Pontificum, Consul T Labienus Fortunatus
strongly recommended that all senatores vote on June 29 or June 30 which are
dies comitiales**.

For the information of the citizens of Nova Roma, here is a brief version of
the Senate's agenda:

I. Permission for Diana Moravia Aventina to organize a Gallo-Roman weekend
in Tongeren, Gallia next year in Nova Roma's name.

II. Permission for Gaius Lanius Falco to print Nova Roman business cards and
to use the Nova Roma flag on these cards for the purpose of publicizing Nova
Roma.

III. The approval of an application for sponsorship of Legio XXI commanded
by Kaeso Maximius Tiberius.

*A dies nefastus is a day on which no legal action or public voting may
occur.
**A dies comitalis is a day on which citizens may vote on political or
criminal matters.

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is this where Friggin comes from?
LOL.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> Three Viking longships pull up on shore.
> Men of the first run up the beach waving their swords "By Odin 'tis
our turn to pillage the monasteries and ransack the manors!"
> Men of the second run up the beach waving axes over their head "By
Thor, 'tis our turn to slay the men and slaughter all the cattle for
a great feast!".
> Men of the third stagger up the beach trying to keep each other
upright "By Frigg, it can't be our turn *yet again* to ravish all
those women!"
>
> Caesariensis,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From : "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@d...>
> To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date : 02 July 2003 18:33:06
> Subject : [Nova-Roma] Re: Word Origins / Latin
> Salve my friend Marce!
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quintus,
That is extremely helpful.
It is appreciated very much.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I found a good website for our newbies and no doubt some older Nova
> Romans that organizes everything in a nutshell so you'll catch on

to

> the system quicker. I suggest you book mark the site and also print
> off a copy to keep by your computer as political issues are

discussed

> on the ML. Hopefully everthing will fall into place.
>
> http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romangvt.html
>
>
> Now my question to the administration is this: In the macro world

we

> are allowed to go into our legistatures during certain times and
> observe the proccedings and debates. Is there any way the citizens
> here can drop in on the various websites on a strictly moderated
> status where our government does its business; for example - how

does

> the censor department work, what knowledge is needed to keep the
> records, how are the senate debates conducted (on various chat
> systems?) how do our Quaestors organize our financing; what are the
> mechanisms etc, how does our election department and the rogotars
> organize and conduct their business. I realize there are

limitations

> because of personal privacy etc but is there any way tours could be
> arranged? If not how does one learn? If someone wishes to run for
> censor in 2 years, how is he groomed for the job for example?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salveta,
What was actually deemed offensive by the word Xian?
Was it an inference or an implication?
Was the offended christian? If so:
What happened to the true christian attitude of turn the other cheek?
Curious questions.
Valete




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve gentlemen,
>
> I think a few postings on this matter may have been be overlooked.
> Anyway what Drusus says is correct. I grew up in the RC church;
> priests in those days had to study Latin and have some exposure to
> Greek and knew PX meant Chi Roh. You cannot and could not become a
> priest without a university degree so they all knew about these
> different issues and yes, the Roman and Greek world.
> We used xmas all the time on greetings and stationary as did the
> calenders to save space. I never heard 1 complaint from the RC

church

> at all. Unfortunately many Christians, though well read on the

bible

> do not know diddley squat about the socio-economic-political

history

> of Rome and the ancient world. Such statements of condemnation just
> display a lack of understanding and these sensitivities and

problems

> are only going to get worse as history has been dropped as a
> compulsory subject from many institutions.
>
> Regards
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> SNIP

Salve Propraetor!

> In this my experience differs from yours. I can assure you that
> at St. Benedict's parish, in the Archdioces of Detroit, the nuns
> would have given a severe tongue-lashing to anyone who dared
> use X-mas as an abbreviation. It was not only frowned upon, but
> actively spoken against in every year's religion class from 1st
> through 8th grade.
>
> -- Marinus

So you grew up being taught by nuns also! A difference for me is
that the nuns of "Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary Elementary
School" in Biloxi, MS would have (and frequently did) lash me with
something more substantial than a tongue (usually a ruler or the
dreaded pointer) ;-O.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Salve:

As concerning the debates in the Senate, and you may remember when it
was brought up some time ago, I concluded their deliberations are not the
kind we think of as in a regular legistative body but rather a cabinet
meeting, and I suppose they're right to keep it behind closed doors
otherwise it would turn into another ML mess because we have too much
demogoguery and I am one who spoke for opening it up but now I see it is not
a good idea really. And since I am already here, could anybody tell me,
aren't everybody supposed to be socii unless they pay their taxes? I really
blanked out the details. when people start repeating things over and over
the delete button gets hot and I end up missing out.

Vale

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

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