Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

Praetor D. Iunius Palladius and I have had time to discuss what to do
in these last three days, and we have reached a decision.

It is our desire to uphold the laws of Nova Roma. Those laws define a
system to handle conflict; a system that is both historically
appropriate and convenient for Nova Roma. I am talking about our
judicial system.

This system is the best solution for this kind of problems: it will
protect everyone's rights, it will ensure fairness and it will
enforce the Rule of Law within Nova Roma. So it is much better than
the direct imposition of the will of the praetores (who, after all,
can make mistakes).

So we are simply going to enforce the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

Should anyone believe that a citizen has stepped beyond the limits
defined by the laws of Nova Roma or magisterial edicts, he or she is
invited to present a petitio actionis to the praetores.

Please read the text of the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria carefully, and
prepare your case. Bear in mind that we will be asking for proofs to
back your claims before we accept your case. We will also give
everyone the opportunity to have a proper defense.

We are ready to read your petitions. You can address them to:
pretors@...
praetors@...

(One of the two addresses above should work; I am not sure of which
one is the right one. Please accept my apologies :-) ).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TIB·OVF
PRAETOR

Salve Pompeia,

<< I will not have anyone else hurt by this organization as much as I have. An organization who welcomed me in principle on the website, to the extent that I was willing to tolerate them. The religious freedoms I feel a deep conviction for, have always felt a conviction for, remains.

I left because of a litany of useless politics...naively thinking that I could stand neutral and defend the people who elected me, giving them the best of all I had.

I worked for nearly three years, and I was faced with being caught inbetween Octavius and Sulla. I have to look at the issue, not the person speaking of the issue. As an elected Senator, I had to think of the people before any faction or easy street way of circumventing things for my own gain.

My crime...not caving to being an antiSullan asskisser. That is 'probably' the reason for the appearance of Agorius and sudden 'disappearance' of him after I left. >>

MOS: Pompeia, I don't bear you any ill will but I've seen you 'suggest' a lot in the past few weeks. You are free to do so, of course, but if you use these tactics in your speeches you can expect to be faced with the same as a retaliation. I recall a lot of people who came into discussions at, for one party or another, a well-timed point and then suddenly left again never to be seen again. And "not caving to being an antisullan asskisser"? Excuse me, that's plainly ridiculous. Somewhat more than a year ago everyone who criticised "the Boni", as they now proudly advertise themselves, was accused of being a traitor, a communist or worse (and I am *not* referring to the extreme rhetorics of Formosanus).

<< I have emails to prove that the whole slander/libel thing against Sulla by another Senator was 'necessary' and suggested for him to do....what Jamie bases my maladroitness on.

I have emails to prove that a faction existed, to which Marcus Octavius belonged, whose 'glue' was their disapproval of me. Yes, I was trying to be the peoples senator, as elected, not a yes person. Please don't shower me with thanks :) >>

MOS: There was a faction glued together, forged even, by the verbose atom bombs of Formosanus before then. Such things happen.

(snip)

Interestingly enough, the 'peoples' princess' ...Tribuna for 'all' the people, by her words, Diana Moravia, egged on this arguement, likely because she was mad with me about another issue...atleast she apologized to me for being snotty, after she was elected of course. So I take it she was upset in the first place :)) I was presented with a petition to question the Censors legal right to appoint her materfamilias of the gens Moravia if the resignation of the existing paterfamilias had not materialized. The petition was presented to me, and I had no choice to investigate it, although I confess that I had written her privately ahead of time and told her that I didn't think this could legally materialize (she had announced to the mainlist that
the censors had 'made' her materfamilias.) She got it...hell...no problem with the Censors and their amount of power.

That was probably the last nail into my cross....don't mess with this lady...and her agenda

<< ... I had an open feed of emails into Britannia list, which she accused me of 'lurking on'....no...the fact is I was a member of that list since 2000. But I cannot ignore Vado's alluding to discussions about Octavius 'venting' about how much he can't stand sulla, and that the Tribunii Plebii are his allies in this. To me, a Nova Roma magistrate has no business talking to a former citizen about how much he dislikes his colleague... >>

MOS: Why not?

(snip)

<< ... She is irritated by Christians (Nova Roma archives...October 2002)....and likely, according to SVR archives, she was starting to become rather unappreciated by their populace due to her sympathies with Vlaiims Bloc, a Belgian Fascist Organization (lookem up on the web) ... >>

MOS: Indeed Vlaams Blok is a fascist party, but I can't remember to what discussion in the archives of SVR you are referring. I do remember that Diana complained about being repeatedly harrassed and intimitaded by gangs of Arabic youths (this is a real problem), but that doesn't make her a fascist, imho. Also, many people here in Belgium who do support the party don't even know they are supporting fascists because they are hiding it so well.

(snip)

<< ... I will tell you, that I have enough evidence and emails to expose the rediculous corruption that shits on what could be in theory a good organization....it shits on the principles of Rome and on the Gods..which are the ancient representation of the divine. >>

MOS: lol, my amici and I said this two years back and no one was listening.

(snip)

<< I will fight staunchly against other well-meaning people being dragged into this bullshit. I believe in promoting freedom of thought and religious freedoms.... the via Romana..And when I see the ass kissing delivered by United States Marines who are Nova Roma citizens it makes me sick...dormancy on the part of the existing Pontifex Maximus and hunger for a more ambitious and one willing to look after 'all' sheep (Graecus where are you......damnit and the PM is supposed to be
elected according to antiquity)

Graecus could give a sermon to an auditorium of nuns, muslims (those pesky critters, eh Diana?) and everyone would take something good away from what he said. He is a true pontiff and should be Pontifex Maximus...but nobody makes hay of the fact that the current Pontifex Maximus does little and just sits waiting for a bomb under his rear. >>

MOS: Except for the ass kissing part, which I have my reservations about, I commend your courage to say what some may have been thinking for quite some time.

(snip)

<< We got rid of the only founder who really cared, but he got burnt out from doing 'your' work... >>

MOS: True. But then again he was a bit, shall we say, obstinate. Despite my more pleasant moments with Vedius and his talents, you have to admit that he partially caused people to turn against him when he kept fostering his own agenda as the One Rome vision. No hard feelings on my part, however.

<< For example: The Senior Consul asked me to be Accensus Magna, on a small list of his advisors. Nobody adressed me directly. And when my wrist was injured I wrote them (and it hurt to do as much) to tell them I had injured my wrist, and I would be out of the loop for a while. If they regarded me as a person of any 'use'...they would have said ''well, sorry Po...see ya soon'....nobody...not even the Senior Consul cared...because in fascist terms, I was a 'useless eater'. >>

MOS: Fascist terms? As much as I like the Back Alley person that is Fabius Maximus, the ideas and thoughts put forward in their own plans and goals (supported by the notorious He-Man Festus) amounted more to fascism than any political idea of Quintilianus and co ever did. Not all careless people are fascists (and not all fascists are careless :)).

<< Unsub me anytime, Praetor Salix, I have enough that I could write some quite formidable information ...I don't need your archives any longer. >>

MOS: Ah, information wars. Where are the days.

(snip)

<< ... Nova Roma will crumble completely when Lucius Equitius Cinninatus becomes Consul...that will finish her off nicely. Very vindictive and power-drunk gentleman....read the archives on Marius Fimbria in the year 2000. >>

MOS: If I may, that's not very reliable information. Marius and Cincinnatus hated each other's guts.

(snip)

MOS: Well, you certainly made your point clear, and I'm glad that I finally know where you stand, after all this time!

Optime vale,
M.O. Solaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites!

This one of the good things with having a colleague that I can trust.
It is easy for me to agree! ;-) But I seem to be in agreement with
Senator Drusus too and that is kind of nice, as it doesn't happen all
the time. ;-)

>Salvete Tiberi Galeri omnesque
>
>> I would like to suggest an amendment to the Constitution that
>> would reads something like this
>> " In addition to showing respect for the Religio Romana, all
>> citizens, in both their public and private statements and actions
>> shall show equal respect to the religious believes, practices,
>> values, traditions and opinions of their fellow Nova Romans.
>> Blaspheme against any religion in Nova Roma shall be considered
>> blaspheme against all religions in Nova Roma. "
>
>First, I would be extremely leery of promulgating a constitutional
>amendment which broadly regulates anyone's private statements--let alone
>their private *actions*.
>
>Second, L Sicinius is absolutely correct when he describes such an
>amendment as "unworkable". Shall we also promulgate a constitutional
>amendment that reads "All citizens of Nova Roma shall get along with one
>another and refrain from open disagreement in both their public and
>private statements and actions"? Attempts to legislate people into
>being reasonable are doomed to failure.
>
>All in all, I think the Collegium Pontificum's decretum on the subject
>says what needs to be said. That is, the Religio Romana is and always
>shall be the state religion of Nova Roma. Attempts to change that are
>unwelcome and will result in disciplinary action.
>
>Valete
>T Labienus Fortunatus

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

You neglected to mention when I emailed you to invite you to stay at my
house if you came to Belgium.

<I will not have anyone else hurt by this organization as much as I
<have.
I don't think that it is the organization which hurts people, but instead
the manner in which citizens here speak to or about eachother that is
hurtful.

>.and likely, according to SVR archives, she was starting to

<become rather unappreciated by their populace due to her sympathies
<with Vlaiims Bloc, a Belgian Fascist Organization (lookem up on the
<web) who has a major problem with the immigration of Islamics/Muslims
<into Belgium, as she does...

Since we have never had a political discussion and you do not speak Dutch
and you do not live here, I wonder how you can judge my political opinion or
even have any idea of this country's problems. Today I had lunch with 3
gentleman: Mohamed Ibrahim, Mohamed Ahmad, & Mohamed and guess what we
discussed? The Muslim problem, which is that Muslims come here, can't find a
job and spend the rest of their lives collecting welfare. Their children
grow up without hope and end up on the streets with nothing to do but get
into trouble. My solution? Teach them the language, teach them a skill and
let them be a productive member of society. *This* is what I want my taxes
to go to instead of making bombs. My 3 Muslim acquaintances--the Mohameds
mentioned above- are of the same opinion. Tell me Pompeia Cornelia, do you
even know any Muslims? Have you ever sat down at a table--like I do 3 days
per week-- and talk to them? Sorry dear, but 'bleeding heart lefty" is
closer to my political opinion.
For the record, since you mentioned Vlaams Blok: Vlaams Blok wants to deport
these people. I do not want unemployed immigrants to get deported
because --guess what?-- I am also an unemployed immigrant.

<back in 2000 this lady was resembling 'nice'
I am even nicer now than I was back then. It is just that now I often post
before I've had my morning coffee.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salvete,

I applaud Tiberius Galerius Paulinus' sentiments that all religions should be
respected on the Nova Roma lists. To do so is simply common courtesy, and
that's always important. :)

As a Senator, and as Pontifex Maximus, I must state that changing the
Constitution would not help guarantee such courtesy. The constitutional "blasphemy
clause" was put in place simply to protect the legal standing of the Religio
Romana as a state institution of Nova Roma; not to guarantee that people will not
say unpleasant things about the Religio. The recent decretum by the Collegium
Pontificum clearly defines that focus.

The Religio Romana entrusts the elected Praetors of Nova Roma to handle all
other common problems that might occur in general public discussion. In that
the Religio is in the same boat with all other religious, political and
community interests our Citizens may have. The Praetors cannot guarantee that no one
will ever be upset by other Citizens in our forums, but they do have the power
to stop flagrant attacks and ongoing abuses of conduct.

The rest, quite frankly, is up to us as Citizens working to build a pleasant
community. People usually respond in kind to what they see; practicing common
courtesy and respect when we post is the best way to keep our forums useful
and enjoyable.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Pontifex Maximus






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix,

From the 2 resignations she posted, I did find one (the first)
located at October 30, 2002. It is the second one that I can't find
anywhere. Do you know where that is or did it miss the archives
somehow? It appears that there may be one or two other people who
also don't recognize it from the other replies. Usually I make a link
in my files for items which wind up having big consequences, which
the first one does, however that second isn't listed and it would be.
I'm only asking because it really does appear that she may have
resigned if that post isn't in the archives anywhere and it would be
helpful to know if the Senatrix has resigned again.

Vale, Annia Octavia Indagatrix



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:

> Ave Appia Claudia,
>
> Pompeia's resignation post was a repost from the achieves. She

forwarded it from last year when there was a Religious Controversy,
which, in the end prompted the College of Pontiffs to publish the
Blasphemy Decreta.

>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: aoctaviaindagatrix
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:15 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pompeia Cornelia (no subject)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> " In addition to showing respect for the Religio Romana, all

citizens, in both their public and private statements and actions
shall show equal respect to the religious believes, practices,
values, traditions and opinions of their fellow Nova Romans.
Blaspheme against any religion in Nova Roma shall be considered
blaspheme against all religions in Nova Roma. "

>

Salve Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,

While I know you mean well, the problem is that one
person's "blasphemy" is another person's "religion." Such an
amendment would effectively end all discussion of the Religio on the
ML since to those who follow a monotheistic tradition such a
discussion would be to them blasphemy. At the same time it would
prevent even a historical discussion on Christianity during the Roman
Imperial Era as that could constitute blasphemy to those who aren't
Christian. A discussion about the differences between Emperors
Constantine and Justinian would give the Praetors apoplexy dealing
the potential litigation that such a discussion could generate.

Rather than create the potential for litigation in Nova Roma, it
would be better that we all remain mindful that religion is a powder
keg subject and remain respectful towards one another. If you really
want to see a fight, put a Baptist and a Pentacostal in the same room
to debate "speaking in tongues." <G>

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

---Salve Diana Moravia:

And this will be my last post on this list.

Yes, you apologized....privately. You got all you wanted, at
tremendous expense and upheaval before the elections. It's easy to
issue an apology after the fact.....allow me to prostrate myself and
you can run me through again (likely why she wants me in Belgium
lol!) I might have invited you to the Sault three years ago, but that
doesn't mean that there have never been issues.

Last Fall I was busy as Praetor trying to reason with a guy who is
condoning a text which calls wiccans and witchcraft 'bullshit'...I
would not allow that to pass, while you are busy running down
Christians, boasting Pagan pride (who denied you your right to
be...not I)...go figure.

Yes, that bugger wanted to things about Wicca before he lit into the
Christians.

I was NOT for the record opposed to your role as Materfamilias I
was 'petitioned' to look into it, Diana. What would you have me
do..as Praetor...when you receive a petition as Tribuna, do you
ignore it, because you'd rather not? No, because you take an oath to
do your job. It was not 'you can't be materfamilias', it was 'should
you be appointed materfamilias after the gens registration lex is
enacted and Messala has a chance to register the gens or remain
absentia.' Then you could be appointed. The public just voted in a
lex all about this, and the question was...should the principle of
this legislation be ignored? And that was ALL there was to it,
Diana. I had no reason whatsoever to be out to get you, jealous of
you or at emnity with you. I was too bloody busy to begin with.

I was in the same position as you are last year, I
guess...magistrate, well-liked...but when you are faced with the
obvious scenerio that people will scrape nails over eachothers faces
to get 'power' that doesn't really exist so they can be some snow
white, the oaths we take and the positions don't amount to much in
terms of true prestige and dignatis. I am not interested in plastic
positions that I gain through nasty means.

However, I have no problem speaking out against the things that make
these positions/magistracies plastic, or put another way, a comedy of
errors.

Frankly, I didn't 'want' to touch this petition with a ten-foot
pole. I had a bad feeling about it, which, well, was not totally
without founding. Well, I paid in full.

It was inappropriate of you to perpetuate religious mayhem on the
list, because you're mad at the Praetor...and it is a strange
contradiction for a gal who today calls herself a tribune for all
people. At it was at a time that you were upset with me...but it
isn't fair to nonpractitioners who don't bother you a bit for your
beliefs
Your 'nah, nah, no ice cream for you' posts on Britannia and your
tattling to Vado about my 'lurking' ( was subbed to the list getting
direct mails for two years) showed spiteful behaviour resembling a
schoolgirl on your maiden menstral cycle, and a clear demonstration
that you were mad about this issue, taking it just a bit too
personally.

Your private apology later indicated that you took it out on me, that
you were mad...but my point is, is this how you react when things
don't go your way for the next person who happens to get in your
way? It may be effective, but it is not right. You'll just 'take it
out' on them, to get what you want, then apologize. I worry about
your relationship with the threefold rule sometimes.

As for lazy welfare recipients, I don't like them either...but facism
is likely not the way to go. Lots of people don't think the Bloc
will ever be dangerous, but that's what they said about the Nazi
party some 65 years ago, to the unfortunate demise of 6 million jews.
If you think they care about the average Belgian and his predicament
with Islamics, you, I believe are gravely mistaken....get
it 'gravely'?

Whatever....

Enjoy you 'power' my dear...enjoy your year as consula next year (I'm
sure you'll run, you like the primadonna stuff)...the populace as of
late likes what they see in you.

All these things about you point to the fact that you have some
serious irritations with Christians, Islamics and folks who cross you.
Maybe you would like to stop lying to the public too and promulgate
some legislation to make Nova Roma's position a bit more truthful on
the website with respect to her 'true' tolerance for nonpractitions,
and be truthful about the lopsidedness of the constitution when it
tacitly condones Practitioners venting their religious frustrations
on a whim, when of course, it is convenient...as you have done in the
past.

You may find me obnoxious, but you won't find me phoney...I don't do
phoney. Anyone can pick, chew, deny and dissect anything I have
done, but they don't know as much as I do about being the Praetor
last year as I do...that only makes sense.

I don't care how many people are fascists here,....but they are not
standing on a platform calling themselve 'the tribune for all people'
either. (To Solaris...who would defend anything, I think, as long as
it is not stated by a Cornelia)

Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:

> Salve Pompeia Cornelia,
>
> You neglected to mention when I emailed you to invite you to stay

at my

> house if you came to Belgium.
>
> <I will not have anyone else hurt by this organization as much as I
> <have.
> I don't think that it is the organization which hurts people, but

instead

> the manner in which citizens here speak to or about eachother that

is

> hurtful.
>
> >.and likely, according to SVR archives, she was starting to
> <become rather unappreciated by their populace due to her sympathies
> <with Vlaiims Bloc, a Belgian Fascist Organization (lookem up on the
> <web) who has a major problem with the immigration of

Islamics/Muslims

> <into Belgium, as she does...
>
> Since we have never had a political discussion and you do not speak

Dutch

> and you do not live here, I wonder how you can judge my political

opinion or

> even have any idea of this country's problems. Today I had lunch

with 3

> gentleman: Mohamed Ibrahim, Mohamed Ahmad, & Mohamed and guess what

we

> discussed? The Muslim problem, which is that Muslims come here,

can't find a

> job and spend the rest of their lives collecting welfare. Their

children

> grow up without hope and end up on the streets with nothing to do

but get

> into trouble. My solution? Teach them the language, teach them a

skill and

> let them be a productive member of society. *This* is what I want

my taxes

> to go to instead of making bombs. My 3 Muslim acquaintances--the

Mohameds

> mentioned above- are of the same opinion. Tell me Pompeia

Cornelia, do you

> even know any Muslims? Have you ever sat down at a table--like I do

3 days

> per week-- and talk to them? Sorry dear, but 'bleeding heart lefty"

is

> closer to my political opinion.
> For the record, since you mentioned Vlaams Blok: Vlaams Blok wants

to deport

> these people. I do not want unemployed immigrants to get deported
> because --guess what?-- I am also an unemployed immigrant.
>
> <back in 2000 this lady was resembling 'nice'
> I am even nicer now than I was back then. It is just that now I

often post

> before I've had my morning coffee.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia

This is a little long and a little scary...lol. Enjoy!
The World According to Student Bloopers
by Richard Lederer

One of the fringe benefits of being an English or History teacher is
receiving the occasional jewel of a student blooper in an essay. I
have pasted together the following "history" of the world from
certifiably genuine student bloopers collected by teachers throughout
the United States from eight grade through college level. Read
carefully and you will learn a lot.

The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies. They lived in the Sarah
Dessert and traveled by Camelot. The climate of the Sarah is such
that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere so certain areas of the
dessert are cultivated by irritation. The Egyptians built the
Pyramids in the shape of a huge triangular cube. The Pramids are a
range of mountains between France and Spain.
The Bible is full of interesting caricatures. In the first book of
the Bible Guinesses Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree. One
of their children Cain asked "Am I my brother's son?" God asked
Abraham to sacrifice Issac on Mount Montezuma. Jacob son of Issac
stole his brother's birthmark. Jacob was a partiarch who brought up
his twelve sons to be partiarchs but they did not take to it. One of
Jacob's sons Joseph gave refuse to the Israelites.
Pharaoh forced the Hebrew slaves to make bread without straw. Moses
led them to the Red Sea where they made unleavened bread which is
bread made without any ingredients. Afterwards Moses went up on Mount
Cyanide to get the ten commandments. David was a Hebrew king skilled
at playing the liar. He fougth with the Philatelists a race of people
who lived in Biblical times. Solomon one of David's sons had 500
wives and 500 porcupines.
Without the Greeks we wouldn't have history. The Greeks invented
three kinds of columns - Corinthian Doric and Ironic. They also had
myths. A myth is a female moth. One myth says that the mother of
Achilles dipped him in the River Stynx until he became intolerable.
Achilles appears in "The Illiad" by Homer. Homer also wrote
the "Oddity" in which Penelope was the last hardship that Ulysses
endured on his journey. Actually Homer was not written by Homer but
by another man of that name.
Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people
advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock.
In the Olympic Games Greeks ran races jumped hurled the biscuits and
threw the java. The reward to the victor was a coral wreath. The
government of Athen was democratic because the people took the law
into their own hands. There were no wars in Greece as the mountains
were so high that they couldn't climb over to see what their
neighbors were doing. When they fought the Parisians the Greeks were
outnumbered because the Persians had more men.
Eventually the Ramons conquered the Geeks. History call people Romans
because they never stayed in one place for very long. At Roman
banquets the guests wore garlic in their hair. Julius Caesar
extinguished himself on the battlefields of Gaul. The Ides of March
killed him because they thought he was going to be made king. Nero
was a cruel tyrany who would torture his poor subjects by playing the
fiddle to them.
Then came the Middle Ages. King Alfred conquered the Dames King
Arthur lived in the Age of Shivery King Harlod mustarded his troops
before the Battle of Hastings Joan of Arc was cannonized by George
Bernard Shaw and the victims of the Black Death grew boobs on their
necks. Finally the Magna Carta provided that no free man should be
hanged twice for the same offense.
In midevil times most of the people were alliterate. The greatest
writer of the time was Chaucer who wrote many poems and verse and
also wrote liter- ature. Another tale tells of William Tell who shot
an arrow through an apple while standing on his son's head.
The Renaissance was an age in which more individuals felt the value
of their human being. Martin Luther was nailed to the church door at
Wittenberg for selling papal indulgences. He died a horrible death
being excommunicated by a bull. It was the painter Donatello's
interest in the female nude that made him the father of the
Renaissance. It was an age of great inventions and discoveries.
Gutenberg invented the Bible. Sir Walter Raleigh is a historical
figure because he invented cigarettes. Another important invention
was the circulation of blood. Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world
with a 100-foot clipper.
The government of England was a limited mockery. Henry VIII found
walking difficult because he had an abbess on his knee. Queen
Elizabeth was the Vir- gin Queen. As a queen she was a success. When
Elizabeth exposed herself be- fore her troops they all
shouted "hurrah." Then her navy went out and defeated the Spanish
Armadillo.
The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespear.
Shakespear never made much money and is famous only because of his
plays. He lived in Windsor with his merry wives writing tragedies
comedies and errors. In one of Shakespear's famous plays Hamlet
rations out his situation by relieving himself in a long soliloquy.
In another Lady Macbeth tries to convince Mac- beth to kill the King
by attacking his manhood. Romeo and Juliet are an example of a heroic
couplet. Writing at the same time as Shakespear was Miquel Cervantes.
He wrote "Donkey Hote". The next great author was John Milton. Milton
wrote "Paradise Lost." Then his wife dies and he wrote "Paradise
Regained."
During the Renaissance America began. Christopher Columbus was a
great navigator who discovered America while cursing about the
Atlantic. His ships were called the Nina the Pinta and the Santa Fe.
Later the Pilgrims crossed the Ocean and the was called the Pilgrim's
Progress. When they landed at Plymouth Rock they were greeted by
Indians who came down the hill rolling their was hoops before them.
The Indian squabs carried porposies on their back. Many of the Indian
heroes were killed along with their cabooses which proved very fatal
to them. The winter of 1620 was a hard one for the settlers. Many
people died and many babies were born. Captain John Smith was
responsible for all this.
One of the causes of the Revolutionary Wars was the English put tacks
in their tea. Also the colonists would send their pacels through the
post with- out stamps. During the War Red Coats and Paul Revere was
throwing balls over stone walls. The dogs were barking and the
peacocks crowing. Finally the colonists won the War and no longer had
to pay for taxis.
Delegates from the original thirteen states formed the Contented
Congress. Thomas Jefferson a Virgin and Benjamin Franklin were two
singers of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin had gone to
Boston carrying all his clothes in his pocket and a loaf of bread
under each arm. He invented elec- tricity by rubbing cats backwards
and declared "a horse divided against itself cannot stand." Franklin
died in 1790 and is still dead.
George Washington married Matha Curtis and in due time became the
Father of Our Country. Them the Constitution of the United States was
adopted to secure domestic hostility. Under the Constitution the
people enjoyed the right to keep bare arms.
Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's mother
died in infancy and he was born in a log cabin which he built with
his own hands. When Lincoln was President he wore only a tall silk
hat. He said In onion there is strength. Abraham Lincoln write the
Gettysburg address while traveling from Washington to Gettysburg on
the back of an envelope. He also signed the Emasculation Proclamation
and the Fourteenth Amendment gave the ex-Negroes citizenship. But the
Clue Clux Clan would torcher and lynch the ex-Negroes and other
innocent victims. On the night of April 14 Lincoln went to the
theater and got shot in his seat by one of the actors in a moving
picture show. The believed assinator was John Wilkes Booth a
supposedly insane actor. This ruined Booth's career.
Meanwhile in Europe the enlightenment was a reasonable time. Voltare
invented electricity and also wrote a book called "Candy". Gravity
was invented by Issac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the Autumn
when the apples are flaling off the trees.
Bach was the most famous composer in the world and so was Handel.
Handel was half German half Italian and half English. He was very
large. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Beethoven wrote music even
though he was deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music. He took long
walks in the forest even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven
expired in 1827 and later died for this.
France was in a very serious state. The French Revolution was
accomplished before it happened. The Marseillaise was the theme song
of the French Revolution and it catapulted into Napoleon. During the
Napoleonic Wars the crowned heads of Europe were trembling in their
shoes. Then the Spanish gorrilas came down from the hills and nipped
at Napoleon's flanks. Napoleon became ill with bladder problems and
was very tense and unrestrained. He wanted an heir to inheret his
power but since Josephine was a baroness she couldn't bear him any
children.
The sun never set on the British Empire because the British Empire is
in the East and the sun sets in the West. Queen Victoria was the
longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. Her reclining years
and finally the end of her life were exemplatory of a great
personality. Her death was the final event which ended her reign.
The nineteenth century was a time of many great inventions and
thoughts. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers
to spring up. Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick Raper which did
the work of a hundred men. Samuel Morse invented a code for
telepathy. Louis Pastuer discovered a cure for rabbis. Charles Darwin
was a naturailst who wrote the Organ of the Species Madman Curie
discovered radium. And Karl Marx became one of the Marx Brothers.
The First World War cause by the assignation of the Arch-Duck by a
surf ushered in a new error in the anals of human history.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve Titus Octavius Pius
>
> It still does not make run-off elections evil just because we have

to have them.

>
> The Lex in question adopts a COMPLETELY non-historic voting method,

not just from a Roman historical view but from the view of most of
human history.

>
> Secondly while the Rogators were very much over worked and should

be showered with praise for their sense of and attention to duty,
their ONLY job is to count ballots.

>
> And what other magistrates were kept from their work?
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Salvete Tiberius Galerius Paulinus et Titus Octavius Pius,

I'm unable to figure out who said what, so I'm just going to make a
general thank you for your praise for the work that I and my
colleagues put in over the course of the Tribunal run-offs. Please
don't forget last year's Rogators who endured the primary election
and the second Tribunal run-off as well.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't feel "over worked" (my
colleagues may feel quite different however <G>) by the seemingly
endless run-offs. All I felt was utter frustration that Nova Roma's
electorial system in the Plebian Assembly was not working, a
frustration shared by the candidates and Tribunes as well.

I wouldn't call run-off elections "evil" but they are very much
counter-productive to governmental efficiency (I know that sounds
like an oxymoron <G>) and voter confidence that their vote actually
matters erodes quickly. I am forbidden by law to give actual numbers
to anyone other than the magistrate that called the election, but you
can trust my word that with each subsequent run-off voter turn out
dropped, which only perpetuated the cycle of run-offs.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salutem omnem dico.

Dei nos quasi pilas homines habent. dehinc cogito, blande
communicationes sit, --versus omnem.

Vale
Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior

I will never look at history the same way again. LOL

Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius <mballetta@...> wrote:This is a little long and a little scary...lol. Enjoy!
The World According to Student Bloopers
by Richard Lederer

One of the fringe benefits of being an English or History teacher is
receiving the occasional jewel of a student blooper in an essay. I
have pasted together the following "history" of the world from
certifiably genuine student bloopers collected by teachers throughout
the United States from eight grade through college level. Read
carefully and you will learn a lot.

The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies. They lived in the Sarah
Dessert and traveled by Camelot. The climate of the Sarah is such
that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere so certain areas of the
dessert are cultivated by irritation. The Egyptians built the
Pyramids in the shape of a huge triangular cube. The Pramids are a
range of mountains between France and Spain.
The Bible is full of interesting caricatures. In the first book of
the Bible Guinesses Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree. One
of their children Cain asked "Am I my brother's son?" God asked
Abraham to sacrifice Issac on Mount Montezuma. Jacob son of Issac
stole his brother's birthmark. Jacob was a partiarch who brought up
his twelve sons to be partiarchs but they did not take to it. One of
Jacob's sons Joseph gave refuse to the Israelites.
Pharaoh forced the Hebrew slaves to make bread without straw. Moses
led them to the Red Sea where they made unleavened bread which is
bread made without any ingredients. Afterwards Moses went up on Mount
Cyanide to get the ten commandments. David was a Hebrew king skilled
at playing the liar. He fougth with the Philatelists a race of people
who lived in Biblical times. Solomon one of David's sons had 500
wives and 500 porcupines.
Without the Greeks we wouldn't have history. The Greeks invented
three kinds of columns - Corinthian Doric and Ironic. They also had
myths. A myth is a female moth. One myth says that the mother of
Achilles dipped him in the River Stynx until he became intolerable.
Achilles appears in "The Illiad" by Homer. Homer also wrote
the "Oddity" in which Penelope was the last hardship that Ulysses
endured on his journey. Actually Homer was not written by Homer but
by another man of that name.
Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people
advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock.
In the Olympic Games Greeks ran races jumped hurled the biscuits and
threw the java. The reward to the victor was a coral wreath. The
government of Athen was democratic because the people took the law
into their own hands. There were no wars in Greece as the mountains
were so high that they couldn't climb over to see what their
neighbors were doing. When they fought the Parisians the Greeks were
outnumbered because the Persians had more men.
Eventually the Ramons conquered the Geeks. History call people Romans
because they never stayed in one place for very long. At Roman
banquets the guests wore garlic in their hair. Julius Caesar
extinguished himself on the battlefields of Gaul. The Ides of March
killed him because they thought he was going to be made king. Nero
was a cruel tyrany who would torture his poor subjects by playing the
fiddle to them.
Then came the Middle Ages. King Alfred conquered the Dames King
Arthur lived in the Age of Shivery King Harlod mustarded his troops
before the Battle of Hastings Joan of Arc was cannonized by George
Bernard Shaw and the victims of the Black Death grew boobs on their
necks. Finally the Magna Carta provided that no free man should be
hanged twice for the same offense.
In midevil times most of the people were alliterate. The greatest
writer of the time was Chaucer who wrote many poems and verse and
also wrote liter- ature. Another tale tells of William Tell who shot
an arrow through an apple while standing on his son's head.
The Renaissance was an age in which more individuals felt the value
of their human being. Martin Luther was nailed to the church door at
Wittenberg for selling papal indulgences. He died a horrible death
being excommunicated by a bull. It was the painter Donatello's
interest in the female nude that made him the father of the
Renaissance. It was an age of great inventions and discoveries.
Gutenberg invented the Bible. Sir Walter Raleigh is a historical
figure because he invented cigarettes. Another important invention
was the circulation of blood. Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world
with a 100-foot clipper.
The government of England was a limited mockery. Henry VIII found
walking difficult because he had an abbess on his knee. Queen
Elizabeth was the Vir- gin Queen. As a queen she was a success. When
Elizabeth exposed herself be- fore her troops they all
shouted "hurrah." Then her navy went out and defeated the Spanish
Armadillo.
The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespear.
Shakespear never made much money and is famous only because of his
plays. He lived in Windsor with his merry wives writing tragedies
comedies and errors. In one of Shakespear's famous plays Hamlet
rations out his situation by relieving himself in a long soliloquy.
In another Lady Macbeth tries to convince Mac- beth to kill the King
by attacking his manhood. Romeo and Juliet are an example of a heroic
couplet. Writing at the same time as Shakespear was Miquel Cervantes.
He wrote "Donkey Hote". The next great author was John Milton. Milton
wrote "Paradise Lost." Then his wife dies and he wrote "Paradise
Regained."
During the Renaissance America began. Christopher Columbus was a
great navigator who discovered America while cursing about the
Atlantic. His ships were called the Nina the Pinta and the Santa Fe.
Later the Pilgrims crossed the Ocean and the was called the Pilgrim's
Progress. When they landed at Plymouth Rock they were greeted by
Indians who came down the hill rolling their was hoops before them.
The Indian squabs carried porposies on their back. Many of the Indian
heroes were killed along with their cabooses which proved very fatal
to them. The winter of 1620 was a hard one for the settlers. Many
people died and many babies were born. Captain John Smith was
responsible for all this.
One of the causes of the Revolutionary Wars was the English put tacks
in their tea. Also the colonists would send their pacels through the
post with- out stamps. During the War Red Coats and Paul Revere was
throwing balls over stone walls. The dogs were barking and the
peacocks crowing. Finally the colonists won the War and no longer had
to pay for taxis.
Delegates from the original thirteen states formed the Contented
Congress. Thomas Jefferson a Virgin and Benjamin Franklin were two
singers of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin had gone to
Boston carrying all his clothes in his pocket and a loaf of bread
under each arm. He invented elec- tricity by rubbing cats backwards
and declared "a horse divided against itself cannot stand." Franklin
died in 1790 and is still dead.
George Washington married Matha Curtis and in due time became the
Father of Our Country. Them the Constitution of the United States was
adopted to secure domestic hostility. Under the Constitution the
people enjoyed the right to keep bare arms.
Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's mother
died in infancy and he was born in a log cabin which he built with
his own hands. When Lincoln was President he wore only a tall silk
hat. He said In onion there is strength. Abraham Lincoln write the
Gettysburg address while traveling from Washington to Gettysburg on
the back of an envelope. He also signed the Emasculation Proclamation
and the Fourteenth Amendment gave the ex-Negroes citizenship. But the
Clue Clux Clan would torcher and lynch the ex-Negroes and other
innocent victims. On the night of April 14 Lincoln went to the
theater and got shot in his seat by one of the actors in a moving
picture show. The believed assinator was John Wilkes Booth a
supposedly insane actor. This ruined Booth's career.
Meanwhile in Europe the enlightenment was a reasonable time. Voltare
invented electricity and also wrote a book called "Candy". Gravity
was invented by Issac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the Autumn
when the apples are flaling off the trees.
Bach was the most famous composer in the world and so was Handel.
Handel was half German half Italian and half English. He was very
large. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Beethoven wrote music even
though he was deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music. He took long
walks in the forest even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven
expired in 1827 and later died for this.
France was in a very serious state. The French Revolution was
accomplished before it happened. The Marseillaise was the theme song
of the French Revolution and it catapulted into Napoleon. During the
Napoleonic Wars the crowned heads of Europe were trembling in their
shoes. Then the Spanish gorrilas came down from the hills and nipped
at Napoleon's flanks. Napoleon became ill with bladder problems and
was very tense and unrestrained. He wanted an heir to inheret his
power but since Josephine was a baroness she couldn't bear him any
children.
The sun never set on the British Empire because the British Empire is
in the East and the sun sets in the West. Queen Victoria was the
longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. Her reclining years
and finally the end of her life were exemplatory of a great
personality. Her death was the final event which ended her reign.
The nineteenth century was a time of many great inventions and
thoughts. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers
to spring up. Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick Raper which did
the work of a hundred men. Samuel Morse invented a code for
telepathy. Louis Pastuer discovered a cure for rabbis. Charles Darwin
was a naturailst who wrote the Organ of the Species Madman Curie
discovered radium. And Karl Marx became one of the Marx Brothers.
The First World War cause by the assignation of the Arch-Duck by a
surf ushered in a new error in the anals of human history.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
well, i'm several hours drive south in New Braunfels. But i figure we can
try to get as many Texan Nova Romans to get together in Austin, a nice
centralized location. Just about any place we choose, someone will drive
farther than someone else. But it's worth looking into.
Vale,
Claudia Fabia Calpurnia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam" <celticboar2001@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Meeting Nova Roma Members


> To all,
> I am in Waco Texas and I am interested in what I have read so far
> about Nova Roma. Does anyone know if there is a group in Waco? If
> not, where would the closest one be.
> Thank you in advance for your help,
> Sam Ward
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Salve Claudia Fabia

> well, i'm several hours drive south in New Braunfels. But i figure we can
> try to get as many Texan Nova Romans to get together in Austin, a nice
> centralized location. Just about any place we choose, someone will drive
> farther than someone else. But it's worth looking into.

If you do attempt to organize such a meeting, please let me know. My
wife and I live in San Antonio, and will make every effort to attend.

In the meantime, as we are so close to you, perhaps we could meet for
lunch or dinner sometime?

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Sodalibus Quiritibus SPD

Thank you Praetor Palladius for your kind words posted on my behalf.
I wasn't going to respond to someone's opinion of me,and I still will not.
I've always felt that actions speak much more clearly, as well as loudly,
than words.

Valete omnibus in pace deorum

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:35:19 -0000
From: "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...>
Subject: Re: Pompeia Cornelia (no subject)


When I cut and paste from Word, part was cut out of my last sentence.
Reposting last paragraph of previous post...


I think this is an incredibly unfair thing to say about Lucius
Equitius. He cares about Nova Roma and issues of concern to him but
he is not powerdrunk or vindictive. Also, as far as I know he has no
further plans to run for any political office. He has stated he has
no desire for elected office and thinks that there are plenty of new
citizens capable of taking over. That is not powerdrunk.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus

________________________________________________________________________

Lucius Equitius Sodalibus Quiritibus SPD

Subject: Re: Re: Something else to argue about; thank the gods!

> What did everyone think of the clothes in Caesar.

L Equitius: I liked the costumes in this edition of "Caesar".
The armor was of the wrong period but it was better than almost anything we
have seen before from Hollywood.
As pointed out there were many inaccuracies, but I did like that the story
included the fact that the Gauls turned out the elderly, women and chidlren
from Alesia to starve.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: The Senate of Nova Roma.... a few thoughts

L Equitius: I was pleased to meet so many NovaRomans at Roman Days. Now what
I want to know is... where are the pictures? When will they be posted to the
Website? I know there were many pictures taken, at least a few of those
Senatores and Magistrates in attendence.
Come on now, cough 'em up!

\> I would live to know how many of the Senate have actually met face to
face.

I have met
Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Q. Fabius Maximus
M. Cassius Iuilinus.
P. Cassia.
D. Iunius Pallidus
G. Marius Merullus
Marcus Minucius Audens

Of course, I would like to meet them all.

Fabius: I'm in favor of an all continent Senate meeting only for
informational
purposes. I hope to organize one next year in Las Vegas.

This would be nice, but I would prefer something next to the Ocean/beach.

Valete

Wasn't Fredric March in that one?
and what does everyone think of Marlon Brando's Antony?
Vale,
U. Calidia Antonina

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:

> I've never seen that version but heard it was good.
> I'll have to try and rent it one day.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Drennan" <dragonpink@s...>
> wrote:
> > Salve,
> > I actually rather enjoyed Claudette Colbert as Cleopatra followed
> closely by
> > Liz. the guys in the Colbert version who played both Caesar and
> Antony were
> > very good, looks wise anyway. I've not sen that version in years.
> > Vale,
> > Claudia Fabia Calpurnia
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@h...>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:40 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Antony and Cleopatra Re: Something else to
> argue about
> >
> >
> > > As far as cinema goes, I still like Liz Taylor as Cleopatra and
> Rex
> > > harrison as Ceasar - even Richard Burton as Antony.
> > >
> > > The later version with Dalton and Billy Zane as Antony really

made

> > > Antony look like a wussy.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > > I did not like the mini-series. In thier attempt to fit so

much

> in
> > > to an alloted time, they left out so much or they just made it
> > > upon...the best Caeser I have seen so far was Timothy Dulton in
> the
> > > 1999 Cleopatra...some people don't like this movie either, but

the

> > > Caser in this flick was cool, to say the least and Cleopatra

was

> much
> > > too hot.
> > > >
> > > > gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@b...> wrote:--- In Nova-
> > > Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus"
> > > > <ahenobarbus@h...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Now about that TNT miniseries: the actor they got to play
> > > > Vercingetorix is
> > > > > about a thousand times cooler than Christopher Lambert

in "The

> > > > Druids"
> > > > > (a.k.a. "Vercingetorix" everywhere outside the US)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Haha! For a guy who was supposed to be starving to death in
> > > Alesia,
> > > > he looked kinda chunky to me.
> > > >
> > > > Gaius Popillius Laenas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >

I would be happy to meet in Austin. Let me know where and when
(email me at celticboar2001@...) and I'll come down.
I look forward to meeting you,
Sam
-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Drennan" <dragonpink@s...>
wrote:

> Salve,
> well, i'm several hours drive south in New Braunfels. But i figure

we can

> try to get as many Texan Nova Romans to get together in Austin, a

nice

> centralized location. Just about any place we choose, someone will

drive

> farther than someone else. But it's worth looking into.
> Vale,
> Claudia Fabia Calpurnia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam" <celticboar2001@y...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:40 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Meeting Nova Roma Members
>
>
> > To all,
> > I am in Waco Texas and I am interested in what I have read so

far

> > about Nova Roma. Does anyone know if there is a group in Waco? If
> > not, where would the closest one be.
> > Thank you in advance for your help,
> > Sam Ward
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >

I replied that if a meeting is set up, please let me know and I'll
come down for it. Email me at celticboar2001@... to ensure I
get the message.
Thank You,
Sam

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:
> Salve Claudia Fabia
>
> > well, i'm several hours drive south in New Braunfels. But i
figure we can
> > try to get as many Texan Nova Romans to get together in Austin,
a nice
> > centralized location. Just about any place we choose, someone
will drive
> > farther than someone else. But it's worth looking into.
>
> If you do attempt to organize such a meeting, please let me know.
My
> wife and I live in San Antonio, and will make every effort to
attend.
>
> In the meantime, as we are so close to you, perhaps we could meet
for
> lunch or dinner sometime?
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> "Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping?
Use
> them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the
more
> merit is in your bounty."
> -Shakespeare

Powder keg is being mild. It's more of the MOAB of
the social institutions. For example according to the
Christian Bible, I forget which part specifically, the
Jewish or at least the Jewish leaders of the time of
Jesus are supposed to have been a factor in the death
of Jesus. Mel Gibson apparently has planned to do a
literal historica account of the last days of Jesus's
life based on this portion of the Bible. However the
ADL and the Rabbi, whose name I can remember off the
top of my head, who is part of the ADL are against as
they fear it will lead to a rise in anti-semitism
since it basically places blame on the Jewish
community or at least its leaders for the death of
Jesus. I'm atheistic so correct me for any errors.
I'm just recounting 4 years of painful teachings at
Catholic high school so I may have made a mistake so
again correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
Quintus Cassius

=====
"What do in life, echoes in eternity"

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Why alter the constitution when a government can
monitor communications on the list and say when enough
is enough and reprimand an individual where
appropriate? Or why not create a law regarding
respect of citizens beliefs. That does not limit the
ability to discuss religion. There is a difference
between discussing religion and having a difference in
beliefs and maturely discussing those differences than
puerly insulting someone because they are Catholics,
Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, etc....sorry I ain't gonna
list every religion out there it's late and I'm
crashing. However, as an atheist I can in my mind
find flaws in all the religions if given the
opportunity to study the basic beliefs and slowly get
more in depth. At the same time not being of a faith
I don't clearly understand the "faith" aspect in a
being that is not physically there. While we all say
"thank god" there are those who say it and have faith
in that "god" where as I'm just saying it as a saying.
There are ways around the issue without altering the
constitution while at the same time addressing the
issue at hand. At least in my opinion there is.
Quintus Cassius
--- qfabiusmaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/7/03 8:47:03 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time, spqr753@...
> writes:
>
>
> > " In addition to showing respect for the Religio
> Romana, all citizens, in
> > both their public and private statements and
> actions shall show equal respect
> > to the religious believes, practices, values,
> traditions and opinions of
> > their fellow Nova Romans. Blaspheme against any
> religion in Nova Roma shall be
> > considered blaspheme against all religions in
> Nova Roma. "
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Any magistrate who has the ability to propose this
> amendment formally and
> > agrees with it is ask to do so.
> >
> >
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
> Salvete
>
> No, I will not support such an addition and either
> will the other Pontiffs of
> Nova Roma.
> Nova Roma was designed to be conduit of the Religio
> Roma and no other
> religions.
> I understand what you are trying to do here, assure
> that all religions
> receive equal precedent
> under Roman Law. That will not happen, once we
> place all religions on an
> equal footing here our problems really will begin.
> I will not impose on the Christians here to ask them
> to sacrifice to our
> gods, anymore then I expect them to ask me to
> sacrifice to theirs.
>
> Valete
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

=====
"What do in life, echoes in eternity"

__________________________________
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G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here is an link to "Moesia":

http://www.usd.edu/~clehmann/pir/moesia.htm

This essay by Rachel Maiwald is a contribution to the Provinciae
Imperii Romani project directed by Clayton Miles Lehmann (University
of South Dakota) and has a useful bibliography at:

http://www.usd.edu/~clehmann/pir/moesbib.htm

There is also an excellent bibliography on Lower Moesia in an essay on
Roman and Late Antique Archaeology in Bulgaria by Lyudmil F. Vagalinski
(Institute of Archaeology, Sofia, Bulgaria) at:

http://www.nipissingu.ca/department/history/muhlberger/orb/bulgbib.htm

And, finally, an essay on Cypriot auxiliaries who served in Moesia by
Tønnes Bekker-Nielsen (Danish Centre for Black Sea Studies, University
of Southern Denmark at Esbjerg), "Cypriots in the Roman Army":

http://www.hum.au.dk/klasark/pontos/e_pub/TBNCypriots.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salus et fortuna,

For those of you who should want to get in contact with me...

My wife and I shall be away from web access for about 2 weeks, traveling to visit family in Nova
Britannia. Any emails I receive during this time will likely go unanswered until my return.

Hopefully this trip will not turn out to be one of sadness, but joy of seeing loved ones again.

I ask your good thoughts for my niece, Erica (20 years old), who goes in for a biopsy on Friday.
There's a tumor on her thyroid.

Otherwise, be well all and I hope that the heated discussions of things political will lead to ideas
and laws useful to the People and Res Publica.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris
Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

EDICTUM CONSULARE VIII CFQ DE IMPERIO AD SIMULATA COMITIA PER
EMENDATAM ROGATAM LEGEM FABIAM DE RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM
HABENDA (The Eight Consular Edict CFQ on the Imperium to organize a
simulation election through the revised proposed)

To test the the revised proposed Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum
Centuriatorum simulation elections are organised.

I. I hereby give Curule Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus imperium to
execute simulation elections using the proposed Lex Fabia de Ratione
Comitiorum Centuriatorum and its Handbook.

II. Curule Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus is hereby authorized to
take all steps necessary to organise these simulation elections,
including to ask the Augur for auspices and call the Comitia
Centuriata to order.

III. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given the 8th of July, in the year of the Consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Saturnine,

Your response is very satisfactorial, your intuitions as Finnish
native speaker are interesting. From your answer I deduce that
Finnish has not a rigidly determined topic/focus order as Russian,
and surpresively Finnish word order is more similiar to most Romanic
Languages (with verb inflected for person) than a full flexive
language like Russian.

The interpretations you make to the sentences:

a) Antonius rakastaa Juliaa (same as 1a)
b) Antonius Juliaa rakastaa (1b)
c) Rakastaa Antonius Juliaa (1c)
d) Juliaa rakastaa Antonius (1d)
e) Rakastaa Juliaa Antonius
f) Juliaa Antonius rakastaa

are similar to that of Romanic Languages (except French), there is
just one correct order (the same as in Finnish).

Gratias plurimas tibi, Saturine.
Cl. Salix Davianus

Salve Urania;

Thanks for your comments Urania, it is interesting that all the book
descriptions (usually one description copy another old book
descritption) are in accordance of the rigid topic/focus order in
Russian, but often as you say book descriptions do not correspond to
the real an colloquial use.
Latin is a good example, I do not know no description of Latin in
terms of scientifical linguistic terms, because most descriptions are
based on traditional books on the topic, but really it is the time
for a new and modern grammar of Latin, based on the extensive corpora
we have and not based in old-fashiones grammars.

Davianus

Salevete ac salve tu Conservate Maior,

I agree completely with your impressions about de different order
alternatives, my intuition as native speaker of a Romanic Language
with a relatively free word order is the same as yours.
From your comments and translations to English, I deduce you
interpret the first term as the focus (as my intuition based on
Spanish so does).

Another interesting question is the relative order noun - adjective,
for example I think definitively there is a difference between:

(1a) homo novus
(1b) novus homo

(2a) Roma Nova
(2b) Nova Roma

Davianus

Salve Lucius Equitius,

<Thank you Praetor Palladius for your kind words posted on my behalf.

Well he may have been the only person who posted kind words, but a lot more
of us were thinking them!

Vale,
Diana

Salve Pompeia Cornelia,

I see that you are doing your best to provoke me, but instead I feel a bit
sorry for you. Something seems to wrong somewhere and I don't think that it
is me, Nova Roma or the long list of people that you angrily mentioned.

Vale,
Diana

I had tears in my eyes when reading some of the students comments.
The teacher who put this together should get an A+. lol.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diane Holloway <karayagirl@y...>
wrote:

> I will never look at history the same way again. LOL
>
>SNIP

I don't know about March but Brando's speach after Ceasars
assasination was very good.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Wasn't Fredric March in that one?
> and what does everyone think of Marlon Brando's Antony?
> Vale,
> U. Calidia Antonina
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
> <mballetta@h...> wrote:
> > I've never seen that version but heard it was good.
> > I'll have to try and rent it one day.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Drennan"
<dragonpink@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > > I actually rather enjoyed Claudette Colbert as Cleopatra
followed
> > closely by
> > > Liz. the guys in the Colbert version who played both Caesar and
> > Antony were
> > > very good, looks wise anyway. I've not sen that version in
years.
> > > Vale,
> > > Claudia Fabia Calpurnia
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@h...>
> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:40 AM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Antony and Cleopatra Re: Something else to
> > argue about
> > >
> > >
> > > > As far as cinema goes, I still like Liz Taylor as Cleopatra
and
> > Rex
> > > > harrison as Ceasar - even Richard Burton as Antony.
> > > >
> > > > The later version with Dalton and Billy Zane as Antony really
> made
> > > > Antony look like a wussy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > > > I did not like the mini-series. In thier attempt to fit so
> much
> > in
> > > > to an alloted time, they left out so much or they just made it
> > > > upon...the best Caeser I have seen so far was Timothy Dulton
in
> > the
> > > > 1999 Cleopatra...some people don't like this movie either,
but
> the
> > > > Caser in this flick was cool, to say the least and Cleopatra
> was
> > much
> > > > too hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@b...> wrote:--- In Nova-
> > > > Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus"
> > > > > <ahenobarbus@h...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now about that TNT miniseries: the actor they got to play
> > > > > Vercingetorix is
> > > > > > about a thousand times cooler than Christopher Lambert
> in "The
> > > > > Druids"
> > > > > > (a.k.a. "Vercingetorix" everywhere outside the US)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Haha! For a guy who was supposed to be starving to death in
> > > > Alesia,
> > > > > he looked kinda chunky to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gaius Popillius Laenas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >

Talk about rewriting history.
The history buffs here (I would hope) get a big laugh.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:

> I had tears in my eyes when reading some of the students comments.
> The teacher who put this together should get an A+. lol.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diane Holloway <karayagirl@y...>
> wrote:
> > I will never look at history the same way again. LOL
> >
> >SNIP

Salve,
I'm not sure. It's been so long since i've seen it. My aunt owns it I think,
she worked at a video store and had first crack at all pre-viewed tapes that
went on sale. I may be able to get it copied if anyone is interested.
Vale,
Claudia Fabia Calpurnia

----- Original Message -----
From: "rory12001" <rory12001@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:09 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Antony and Cleopatra Re: Something else to argue about


> Wasn't Fredric March in that one?
> and what does everyone think of Marlon Brando's Antony?
> Vale,
> U. Calidia Antonina
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
> <mballetta@h...> wrote:
> > I've never seen that version but heard it was good.
> > I'll have to try and rent it one day.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Drennan" <dragonpink@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > > I actually rather enjoyed Claudette Colbert as Cleopatra followed
> > closely by
> > > Liz. the guys in the Colbert version who played both Caesar and
> > Antony were
> > > very good, looks wise anyway. I've not sen that version in years.
> > > Vale,
> > > Claudia Fabia Calpurnia
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@h...>
> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:40 AM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Antony and Cleopatra Re: Something else to
> > argue about
> > >
> > >
> > > > As far as cinema goes, I still like Liz Taylor as Cleopatra and
> > Rex
> > > > harrison as Ceasar - even Richard Burton as Antony.
> > > >
> > > > The later version with Dalton and Billy Zane as Antony really
> made
> > > > Antony look like a wussy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > > > I did not like the mini-series. In thier attempt to fit so
> much
> > in
> > > > to an alloted time, they left out so much or they just made it
> > > > upon...the best Caeser I have seen so far was Timothy Dulton in
> > the
> > > > 1999 Cleopatra...some people don't like this movie either, but
> the
> > > > Caser in this flick was cool, to say the least and Cleopatra
> was
> > much
> > > > too hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@b...> wrote:--- In Nova-
> > > > Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus"
> > > > > <ahenobarbus@h...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now about that TNT miniseries: the actor they got to play
> > > > > Vercingetorix is
> > > > > > about a thousand times cooler than Christopher Lambert
> in "The
> > > > > Druids"
> > > > > > (a.k.a. "Vercingetorix" everywhere outside the US)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Haha! For a guy who was supposed to be starving to death in
> > > > Alesia,
> > > > > he looked kinda chunky to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gaius Popillius Laenas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "salixdavianus"
<salixdavianus@t...> wrote:

Te salutem dico, Davianus

i agree with your point of view in the examples.

in my opinion you can compare it with the first question as well.
(1a) homo novus the accentuation is pointed out on the first word
here "homo" is more important as "novus"
or "roma" in compare to "nova".


(1a)homo novus sum i'm a new human (who is new elsewhere, town,
district, place etc,...)

(1b)novus homo sum i'm a new human (who is "reborn" as a human. it
means he/she changed his behaviour,character,feelings etc around 180°)

Vale
Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior

.......

> Another interesting question is the relative order noun -

adjective,

> for example I think definitively there is a difference between:
>
> (1a) homo novus
> (1b) novus homo
>
> (2a) Roma Nova
> (2b) Nova Roma
>
> Davianus

--- salixdavianus <salixdavianus@...> wrote:

>

<snipped>

> Another interesting question is the relative order
> noun - adjective,
> for example I think definitively there is a
> difference between:
>
> (1a) homo novus
> (1b) novus homo
>
> (2a) Roma Nova
> (2b) Nova Roma
>
> Davianus
>
>
>

My understanding, from my limited academic exposure
to Latin (about 6-7 months in high school) would agree
that word order, though relatively fluid in Latin
compared to more modern languages, can be used for
purposes of emphasis. Is that the point you are
trying to make here?

Lucius Quintius Constantius
Lacus Magni

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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Salvete omnes,

My business partner wants me to find a Latin word that rhymes
with manifesto. He is working on a amnifesto document for our
project (which is to begin quantifying the integrity of corporate
America). He wants a word that means something like "empowerment".
I exhausted my own resources trying to find something, but he didn't
seem to like my choices. Any suggestions?


Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

Salve Lucius,
As one who tried in vain to get help with Latin here as well, maybe I
can lend a hand:
absurdo
aeterno
asino
initio
irato
ovo
absolvo
lapillo
aliquando
alter ego
a mensa et toro
minimo sono
intergratio
a quo
arcades ambo
a tergo
universo
cadit quaestio
How's that for starters?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Roger" <politicog@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> My business partner wants me to find a Latin word that rhymes
> with manifesto. He is working on a amnifesto document for our
> project (which is to begin quantifying the integrity of corporate
> America). He wants a word that means something
like "empowerment".
> I exhausted my own resources trying to find something, but he
didn't
> seem to like my choices. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

A. Apollonius Cordus to Ti. Galerius Paulinus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> It should be noted after the long period of

discussion

> on the Senior Consuls proposed Lex and his election
> system, that the Alternative Vote system is actually
> used in very few places on this planet and if it was
> the innovation its' advocates here believe it is,

it's

> use would me more universal.

It's true that AV is not widely used for national
elections; this does not mean there's anything wrong
with it.

The U.K. and the U.S.A., which between them make up a
major part of the politically developed world (who am
I trying to fool - the U.S. does that on its own...),
are still using first-past-the-post, which is
generally accepted among political scientists to be
almost the most unfair electoral system one can think
of. Most other countries have decided that FPTP is no
good, and have gone for list forms of Proportional
Representation, which is no good for us here because
we're electing only one or two people at a time.
Another popular form of Proportional Representation is
the Single Transferable Vote, which is very similar to
AV in its principles.

My reading suggests that for the type of election
we're dealing with here - electing individual
magistrates rather than large legislative assemblies -
most experts would say the best system is either AV or
the Borda Count. The Borda one is, I think, more
widely supported, but it's even more complicated and
unhistorical than AV.

May I remind you, also, that it is very difficult to
say how exactly the Romans did count their votes. We
can be pretty sure it wasn't by AV, but I've not heard
anyone in this forum make a persuasive case for what
it actually was. If you have an idea, I personally
would love to hear it.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

Salve Daviane;
I studied Lunt & Umbegaun and they literally left me unable to
speak modern Russian.
Right now I am wrestling with Moreland & Fleischer for Latin,
and I couldn't agree with you more.
Vale Urania

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "salixdavianus" <salixdavianus@t...>
wrote:

> Salve Urania;
>
> Thanks for your comments Urania, it is interesting that all the

book

> descriptions (usually one description copy another old book
> descritption) are in accordance of the rigid topic/focus order in
> Russian, but often as you say book descriptions do not correspond

to

> the real an colloquial use.
> Latin is a good example, I do not know no description of Latin in
> terms of scientifical linguistic terms, because most descriptions

are

> based on traditional books on the topic, but really it is the time
> for a new and modern grammar of Latin, based on the extensive

corpora

> we have and not based in old-fashiones grammars.
>
> Davianus

Salvete,

Anyone in the Nova Britannia area interested in attending the
Massachusetts Pagan Pride Day event, September 21st, at the Harold
Parker State Forest in North Adams, MA? It would be nice to get some
Religio representation there. I am also interested in possibly putting
together an "Intro to the Religio Romana" workshop, if anyone would be
interested in working on that with me.

Here is the event website: http://massippp.freeservers.com/

Bene valete in Pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Cicero




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave! This may or may not be appropritate for this group, however I would
like your indulgence and a little assistance.

I am in the position to name a spa. It is a small spa and yet I would
like it to have a name befitting it's history and role. Since spa is an
acronym for "Sanitas Per Aqua" or "Health Through Water", the fact that
water is involved is self evident. I am stuck on the first name for
this venture, and thought you would be the people to ask.

I was considering the name "Delphi". Any other suggestions?

BTW, how is bathing handled in New Rome? Of large significance? Do you
capture the pool first at battle events?

Helen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You forgot your cousin, Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, a pleasant fellow but very strange at times.

Now, now. Only the northern Barbarians would suggest that. A Roman would recommend a visit to another place, like Tartarus or Gehenna or a more classical sounding place for the afterlife.

F Gal Aur Sec

Salve, Calidia

I also admire the version of "Cleopatra" starring Claudette Colbert. The
actors who portrayed Caesar and Antony were, respectively, Warren William and
Henry Wilcoxon. Wilcoxon was the son-in-law of the director of the film, the
famous Cecil B. DeMille. DeMille also directed the film you referred to with
Fredric March, Claudette Colbert, and Elissa Landi. That one was titled "The
Sign of the Cross" and took place during the reign of Nero (played by Charles
Laughton).

Vale,

G. Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, I believe that plonk is supposed to be a Gallic term for an inferior vin de ordinaire.

F Gal Aur Sec

Perhaps she is merely blowing a horn producing sound and fury and signifying nothing.

F Gal Aur Sec

"Sooky?" What is "sooky?"

F Gal Aur Sec

I believe that it is just common courtesy not to belittle or insult other people's spiritual beliefs. Of course, as of late, there has been a dearth of common courtesy from a good number of citizens on the list.

F Gal Aur Sec

Dear Cousin:

While I agree with the spirit of your suggestion, I do not believe that it should be an amendment to the NR Constitution. If there is one thing that most Americans can agree on (based on the history of our country from the Volstead Act to the present) is that you cannot legislate tolerance, morality, ethical behavior, or other virtues. You can only educate and lead by example and demonstration. I think that this sort of amendment would have as much effect as the Anti-Flag Burning Amendment suggestion brought up a few years back in congress.

Flavi Galeri

Now that is what I like to see in Nova Roma. Folks who can swallow their anger and pride and do their best to make amends for a small mistake. Diana, you never cease to amaze me as to how nice and thoughtful a person you are to our citizens. You are a good magistrate, even when I don't agree with everything you say and I'm glad to have you as a tribune.

F Gal Aur Sec

Salve,

Well, Jason and Ulysses had some interesting adventures on the high seas. Somewhat connected is the elusive Kalypso, but that's greek for "he who hides" (but it does sound cool.)

in pax,
cory (how does one acquire a nova roman name?)

----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Connelly
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:54 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Bath names


Ave! This may or may not be appropritate for this group, however I would
like your indulgence and a little assistance.

I am in the position to name a spa. It is a small spa and yet I would
like it to have a name befitting it's history and role. Since spa is an
acronym for "Sanitas Per Aqua" or "Health Through Water", the fact that
water is involved is self evident. I am stuck on the first name for
this venture, and thought you would be the people to ask.

I was considering the name "Delphi". Any other suggestions?

BTW, how is bathing handled in New Rome? Of large significance? Do you
capture the pool first at battle events?

Helen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is it just me or is Pompeia Cornelia being a real potty-mouth on the list lately? I can understand an occasional slip in the heat of writing an email but . . . is the woman from Misenum? She sounds like she has been hanging around the sailors and marines from the Fleet. Come on, domina, you can surely be colorful and expressive without so much foul language.

F Gal Aur Sec

Salve omnes!
While I'm not the best at translation, I still attempt it for kicks. I recently got a book of Cicero's letters and orations, which seems like it'll be good fun. Anyways, it's pretty old (published in 1898 -- see what you can get at a flea market for 5 bucks?!), and it's not in peak condition. I can't seem to find what happens to Cataline after he's kicked out. Can anyone help me fill in this gap? Also, how did the public react to that whole string of speeches? Cicero really let's Cataline have it, to an almost absurd level...did they really buy into it?

Much thanks!

in pax,
cory





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Teachers are forced to put up with this as their motivation, while burly men in spandex suits who throw a dead pig past a line are paid millions. And we wonder what's happening to the youth!

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: All teachers Cringe


I had tears in my eyes when reading some of the students comments.
The teacher who put this together should get an A+. lol.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diane Holloway <karayagirl@y...>
wrote:
> I will never look at history the same way again. LOL
>
>SNIP


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Drink the coffee first, Diana. Afterwhich, you can read Pompeia Cornelia's posts. I'm sure they would be a very effective emetic.

F Gal Aur Sec

cory (how does one acquire a nova roman name?)

one applies for citizenship novaroma.org

Solis Aqua. Aqua Sulis. Apollo Baths. Baths of Caracalla. Aqua Vitae (apologies to my Irish kin). Aqua Pura.

F Gal Aur Sec

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

> Solis Aqua. Aqua Sulis. Apollo Baths. Baths of Caracalla. Aqua

Vitae (apologies to my Irish kin). Aqua Pura.

>
> F Gal Aur Sec

What no Aqua Velva?

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Helen Connelly <helens@n...> wrote:

>
> BTW, how is bathing handled in New Rome? Of large significance? Do

you

> capture the pool first at battle events?
>
> Helen

Salve Helen,

Roman bathing was a multi-step process of which getting clean was
incidental to socializing and relaxation.

First was the unctuarium where one was oiled up and then went out to
exercise in an exercise yard. Then one moved to the tepidarium (warm
room) where one would lie around and chat with friends. After having
exhausted the topics of the day one moved on to the caldarium,
basically a steam room where one took a curved metal tool called a
strigil and scraped their skin while attendents served snacks and
drinks. After removing the dirt and dead skin with the stirgil one
then took a dip in the calidarium (hot bath) then a dip in the
frigidarium (cold bath. After which one could then be massaged with
perfumed oils and then socialize some more.


Personally I just take a shower myself.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

While one may not be able to or easily "Legislate
tolerance, morality, ethical behavior, or other
virtues" you can control or limit it. In the United
States we all know that famous "free speech" amendment
in our constitution. However despite our "free
society" and I use that loosely, and all our
"freedoms" and "Rights" again used loosely there
limits. When mans rights infringe anothers it is no
longer a privilege of that person. For example, we
have the freedom of speech. However, when you speak
freely and go shoot your mouth off and say something
like "hey N*****", that African-American, African or
what ever there specific ethnicity, they find it
offensive and it goes from free speech to fighting
words. That is illegal and a free speech argument
would not hold up in a court of law. Plain and simple
you can place limitations on behaviors and attempt to
control them but it is impossible to avoid such out
burts all together. If someone wants to say it they
will no if, ands, buts, or maybes.
Quintus Cassius
--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Dear Cousin:
>
> While I agree with the spirit of your suggestion, I
> do not believe that it should be an amendment to the
> NR Constitution. If there is one thing that most
> Americans can agree on (based on the history of our
> country from the Volstead Act to the present) is
> that you cannot legislate tolerance, morality,
> ethical behavior, or other virtues. You can only
> educate and lead by example and demonstration. I
> think that this sort of amendment would have as much
> effect as the Anti-Flag Burning Amendment suggestion
> brought up a few years back in congress.
>
> Flavi Galeri
>

=====
"What do in life, echoes in eternity"

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve Cai Lani;
gratias tibi ago for sorting out my confusion. Dare I ask you who
starred in "The Last Days of Pompeii"?
Vale, U. Calidia Antonina

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, lanius117@a... wrote:

> Salve, Calidia
>
> I also admire the version of "Cleopatra" starring Claudette

Colbert. The

> actors who portrayed Caesar and Antony were, respectively, Warren

William and

> Henry Wilcoxon. Wilcoxon was the son-in-law of the director of the

film, the

> famous Cecil B. DeMille. DeMille also directed the film you

referred to with

> Fredric March, Claudette Colbert, and Elissa Landi. That one was

titled "The

> Sign of the Cross" and took place during the reign of Nero (played

by Charles

> Laughton).
>
> Vale,
>
> G. Lanius Falco
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
wrote:
SNIP

> are still using first-past-the-post, which is
> generally accepted among political scientists to be
> almost the most unfair electoral system one can
> think

That old Deva Vu is kicking in.
In the past I have heard or read
It's generally accepted among political scientists
that

Free Enterprise is the least fair economic system,
Communism is the wave of the Future,
Democarcy has failed.

For the past 100 years few have had the unbroken
record of being utterly wrong time after time that
"political scientists" have shown.

Quirites,
Do you know that my hobby is restoring old cars? That
I have restored some of the greatest of the classic
factory high performance cars from the 1960s?

Most of you don't know this because I keep that
intrest that has NOTHING to do with Roma in it's
proper place outside of Nova Roma.

I Haven't been attempting to enact laws that make the
1957 Chevrolet Nomad or the 1967 Pontiac GTO the
offical car of Nova Roma.

The fans of Hip Hop music aren't demanding that we
base our culture on Gangsta Rap.

The American Civil War buffs aren't attempting to
rewrite the Constitution along the lines of the one
used by the Richmond government.

It seems that all our citizens who have intrests that
have nothing to do with Roma are capable of following
those outside intrests in other venues with one
exception.

Some citizens who have an intrest in modern political
theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier intrest
in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
have nothing to do with Roma.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with being
intrested in modern politics as long as you do like
the rest of us who have other outside intrests, and
persue them in a venue dedicated to those intrests.

If you want a Micronation founded on the latest ideas
of political scientists then start a new micronation
where you can create an "Island" or a society living
in the 6th Century after Ford or any other Utopia you
want to persue, and come to Nova Roma when you want to
persue Roman intrests.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salvete:

Why cringe. They're familiar with the Illiad, Shakespeare and his
plays, questions of theology and the old testament, Handel, The British
Empire, The Spanish Armada, the Greeks, the Romans..etc..etc. Why, they
seem to know the whole history of mankind, and by the time they reach
college there will be nothing left for them to learn except spelling. These
kids must be PHDs.

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

_________________________________________________________________
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Salvete Quirites,

In accordance with the Consular Edictum VIII published earlier today
by Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, I will soon be calling the Comitia
Centuriata for a simulated election of consuls and praetors.

As you wait for the official call, you can study the historical
persons from Roma Antiqua whose names will be on the ballot.

Candidates for Consul:

1. Lucius Aemilius Paulus Macedonius

Bio: Roman general, a member of a patrician family of the Aemilian
gens, son of the consul of the same name who fell at Cannae.
As consul for the second time (168) he was entrusted with the command
in the Macedonian War, which the incapacity of previous generals had
allowed to drag on for three years. He brought the war to a speedy
termination by the battle of Pydna, fought on the 22nd of June
(Julian calendar) 168. Macedonia was henceforward a Roman province,
and Paulus, having made a tour through Greece, with the assistance
of ten Roman commissioners arranged the affairs of the country. He
enjoyed a magnificent triumph, which lasted three days and was graced
by the presence of the captive king Perseus and his three children.
He lost his two sons by his second wife, and was thus left without
a son to bear his name, his two sons by his first wife having been
adopted into the Fabian and Cornelian gentes. Paulus was censor in
164, and died in 160 after a long illness. At the funeral games
exhibited in his honour the Hecyra of Terence was acted for the
second and the Adelphi for the first time. An aristocrat to the
backbone, he was yet beloved by the people. Of the vast sums brought
by him into the Roman treasury from Spain and Macedonia he kept
nothing to himself, and at his death his property scarcely sufficed
to pay his wife's dowry. As a general he was a strict disciplinarian;
as an augur he discharged his duties with care and exactness. He
was greatly in sympathy with Greek learning and art, and was a
friend of the historian Polybius.

(from http://85.1911encyclopedia.org/P/PA/PAULUS_LUCIUS_AEMILIUS.htm )

2. Lucius Junius Brutus

Bio: Lucius Junius Brutus was the founder of the Roman Republic and
traditionally one of the first Consuls in 509 BC. Prior to that point,
Rome had been ruled by kings. Brutus led the revolt that overthrew the
last king, Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, on account of Tarquin's son
(Sextus Tarquinius) raping Brutus' kinswoman Lucretia. The account
is from Livy's Ab Urbe Condita and deals with a point in the history
of Rome prior to reliable historical records (virtually all prior
records were destroyed by the Gauls when they sacked Rome in 390 BC).

There is some confusion as to the details of Brutus' life. His
consulship, for example, may have been a later embellishment to give
the republican institutions with the overthrower of the kings.
Similarly the tale of Brutus' execution of his own sons for failing
in their military duties may well have been a later invention.

He is said to have died in battle against the Etruscans during his
consulship.

(From http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius+Junius+Brutus)

3. Marcus Porcius Cato Uticensis (Cato the Younger)

Bio: "It is said of Cato that even from his infancy, in his speech,
his countenance, and all his childish pastimes, he discovered an
inflexible temper, unmoved by any passion, and firm in everything...
to go through with what he undertook. He was rough and ungentle toward
those that flattered him, and still more unyielding to those who
threatened him. It was difficult to excite him to laughter, his
countenance seldom relaxed even into a smile; he was not quickly
or easily provoked to anger, but if once incensed, he was no less
difficult to pacify." Plutarch.

Marcus Porcius Cato "Uticensis" (also known as Cato the Younger) was
many things, including the adamantine foe of the triumvirs Pompey,
Caesar, and Crassus and the man whose undying enmity to Caesar in t
he Civil War led him to commit particularly violent suicide rather
than give Caesar the pleasure of pardoning him in defeat

(from http://heraklia.fws1.com/contemporaries/cato/ )

4. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Bio: Cicero was consul in 63 B.C. -- the first man elected consul who
had no consular ancestors in more than 30 years. He is particularly
noted for his speeches against Catiline, the total of which was
four -- two to the senate, and two to the people. He was later
exiled, and during this time, wrote down his speeches, before
returning to Rome. He was eventually executed.

(from http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero)

5. Gaius Marius

Bio: a novus homo (man without senatorial forebears) from the
Italian countryside who came to prominence in Rome through
military competence, and whom the oligarchy had a hard time
assimilating into the "system." He was given unprecedented
power at Rome to deal with a military emergency, which could
only be solved through bending the accepted constitution. Finally, he
instituted a military reform that ended the raising of troops only
from those who owned land. In the long run this reform was to change
entirely the relationship of the troops to the state.

(this and much more at:
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?search=Gaius+Marius&go=Go)

Candidates for Praetor:

1. Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

Bio: Roman consul in 460 BC and dictator twice, in 458 BC and 439 BC.
His first term as dictator began when Rome was being menaced by the
Aequi tribe from the east and the Voslcians from the southeast. The
Roman Senate pleaded with Cincinnatus to assume the mantle of dictator
to save the city. [...] According to the annalists, Cincinnatus
had settled into a life of farming and knew that his departure could
mean starvation for his family if the crops went unsown in his absence. He
assented to the request anyway and within sixteen days had defeated
the Aequi and the Voslcians. His immediate resignation of his absolute
authority with the end of the crisis has often been cited as an
example of good leadership, service to the public good, and the virtue of
modesty.

He came out of retirement during his second term as dictator (439 BC)
to put down a revolt by the plebians.

( http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus )

2. Marcus Junius Brutus

Bio: protege of Julius Caesar and among those who killed him
at the Senate house in Rome on the Ides of March, 44 B.C.

( http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutus )

3. Cornelia, mother of the Gracchi

Bio: Cornelia was the daughter of P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus, who
earned his epithet and reputation during the Carthaginian Wars.
She married Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus and bore twelve children.
Only three survived to adulthood: Sempronia and the two famous
tribunes of the plebs Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus and Gaius
Sempronius Gracchus. After her husband's death Cornelia did
not marry, choosing instead to remain loyal to the memory of
her husband. She was thus an univira (married to only one man in her
lifetime), a quality Roman men praised in their women. After her
husband's death, Cornelia devoted herself to the education of her
children. Some of her letters survived to Cicero's time (cf. Brutus
211) and were also referred to by Quintilian (Inst. Or. 1.1.6).
Two fragments of a letter to Gaius after the murder of Tiberius
survived in an MS of Cornelius Nepos's writings. After Tiberius's
death Cornelia retired to her villa at Misenum on the Bay of Naples.
While there she spent her time engaged in cultural activities,
correspondence, and conversation with the intellectual elite Roman
men. She died by 100 BC but was greatly honored as a singular
example of womanhood by the Cornelii. A statue was dedicated to her
after her death.

( http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ebbeler/writs/corneliaintro.html )

4. Aurelia, mother of G. Julius Caesar the Dictator

Bio: None available online, but fans of Colleen McCullough will know
this woman well. She was an exemplar of the best in the Roman
'matrona', a force to be reckoned with, and reputed to be the most
sought after woman in Rome.


So, you'll be choosing from that slate of candidates. Each of you
will have the option of voting for as many of them as you wish,
though I encourage you to only vote for those candidates you genuinely
support.

Anyone who wishes to come forward and speak on behalf of a particular
candidate, please do so.

Valete,

-- Gn. Equitius Marinus

"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> writes:

[Quite a bit, including]

> Some citizens who have an intrest in modern political
> theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier intrest
> in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
> have nothing to do with Roma.

To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

Let's review the facts, OK?

The Senior Consul gave the members of his office of
laws and politics (Officina Iuris et Rei Politicae)
a mandate to develop a law proposal that would:

a. Be as historically accurate as practical

b. Comply with the constitution of Nova Roma

c. Eliminate as much as possible the need for runoff elections

d. Reflect the will of the electorate

The fact that we went out and studied the available
literature about voting and political theory doesn't
mean we've suddenly become hobbyists in political science.
It means that we're carrying out the duties that we swore
an oath to carry out.

If you don't like the law proposal when you finally see it,
go on and speak out against whatever points you find
objectionable. But please don't go attributing motives
to us that just are not true. We're not utopians, we're
Nova Romans, just as you are. Our conception of Nova
Roma is as valid as yours, and in the end it's the people
who will decide by voting in their centuries whether or
not this law proposal is adopted.

-- Marinus

Ave Aedile Marinus,

The issue that Senator Drusus has is the quote by Apollonius Cordus which was quoted the following:


--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
wrote:
SNIP

> are still using first-past-the-post, which is
> generally accepted among political scientists to be
> almost the most unfair electoral system one can
> think

So, while you might not have that opinion Aedile, obviously others in the Cohort do.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Modern Political Theory (was Election Lex)


"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> writes:

[Quite a bit, including]

> Some citizens who have an intrest in modern political
> theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier intrest
> in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
> have nothing to do with Roma.

To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

Let's review the facts, OK?

The Senior Consul gave the members of his office of
laws and politics (Officina Iuris et Rei Politicae)
a mandate to develop a law proposal that would:

a. Be as historically accurate as practical

b. Comply with the constitution of Nova Roma

c. Eliminate as much as possible the need for runoff elections

d. Reflect the will of the electorate

The fact that we went out and studied the available
literature about voting and political theory doesn't
mean we've suddenly become hobbyists in political science.
It means that we're carrying out the duties that we swore
an oath to carry out.

If you don't like the law proposal when you finally see it,
go on and speak out against whatever points you find
objectionable. But please don't go attributing motives
to us that just are not true. We're not utopians, we're
Nova Romans, just as you are. Our conception of Nova
Roma is as valid as yours, and in the end it's the people
who will decide by voting in their centuries whether or
not this law proposal is adopted.

-- Marinus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:

> "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> writes:
>
> [Quite a bit, including]
>
> > Some citizens who have an intrest in modern
> political
> > theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier
> intrest
> > in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
> > have nothing to do with Roma.
>

Where did I Mention the Senior Consul or his staff?

I Was replying to a person who happens to be a member
of that staff, not to the staff in general, a staff
that I have been informed several times consists of
indiviuals who speek for themselves.

Sir, my point was and is modern political theories
have as little to do with Roma as Classic Cars, Hip
Hop music, and the American Civil War. People
intrested in 3 of those 4 seem to be capable of
seperating thier Roman intrests from other areas,
while some intrested in Modern Politics have diverted
our attention away from Roma for years, a process that
started before the Senior Consul and most of his staff
applied for citizenship.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Salve Q. Cassius Calvus,

"Personally I just take a shower myself."

Eeek! No shaving, waxing, massaging, balneo, thalasso or hydrotherapy?

Vale,

Helen

I wouldn't go so far as to say political science
should be kept seperate from Nova Roma. We are
operating a political system within this micronation.
However, modern political thought I would say has no
part in a micronation that is re-enacting the Ancient
Roman system or way of life the best of its abilities.

Quintus Cassius
--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> wrote:

>
> --- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@...>
> wrote:
> SNIP
> > are still using first-past-the-post, which is
> > generally accepted among political scientists to
> be
> > almost the most unfair electoral system one can
> > think
>
> That old Deva Vu is kicking in.
> In the past I have heard or read
> It's generally accepted among political scientists
> that
>
> Free Enterprise is the least fair economic system,
> Communism is the wave of the Future,
> Democarcy has failed.
>
> For the past 100 years few have had the unbroken
> record of being utterly wrong time after time that
> "political scientists" have shown.
>
> Quirites,
> Do you know that my hobby is restoring old cars?
> That
> I have restored some of the greatest of the classic
> factory high performance cars from the 1960s?
>
> Most of you don't know this because I keep that
> intrest that has NOTHING to do with Roma in it's
> proper place outside of Nova Roma.
>
> I Haven't been attempting to enact laws that make
> the
> 1957 Chevrolet Nomad or the 1967 Pontiac GTO the
> offical car of Nova Roma.
>
> The fans of Hip Hop music aren't demanding that we
> base our culture on Gangsta Rap.
>
> The American Civil War buffs aren't attempting to
> rewrite the Constitution along the lines of the one
> used by the Richmond government.
>
> It seems that all our citizens who have intrests
> that
> have nothing to do with Roma are capable of
> following
> those outside intrests in other venues with one
> exception.
>
> Some citizens who have an intrest in modern
> political
> theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier
> intrest
> in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
> have nothing to do with Roma.
>
> There certainly isn't anything wrong with being
> intrested in modern politics as long as you do like
> the rest of us who have other outside intrests, and
> persue them in a venue dedicated to those intrests.
>
> If you want a Micronation founded on the latest
> ideas
> of political scientists then start a new micronation
> where you can create an "Island" or a society living
> in the 6th Century after Ford or any other Utopia
> you
> want to persue, and come to Nova Roma when you want
> to
> persue Roman intrests.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>

=====
"What do in life, echoes in eternity"

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

I Have tried to make it plain that my objection is the
introduction of Modern political theory. We should be
looking to Polybios or Cicero or perhaps even some
writers from the Imperial period. Men who were
concerned with the problems and theories of Roman
government rather than the views of modern theorists
who have little or no intrest in Roman government or
culture.

--- Quintus Cassius <quintuscassius@...> wrote:

> I wouldn't go so far as to say political science
> should be kept seperate from Nova Roma. We are
> operating a political system within this
> micronation.
> However, modern political thought I would say has no
> part in a micronation that is re-enacting the
> Ancient
> Roman system or way of life the best of its
> abilities.
>
> Quintus Cassius
> --- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> <cordus@...>
> > wrote:
> > SNIP
> > > are still using first-past-the-post, which is
> > > generally accepted among political scientists to
> > be
> > > almost the most unfair electoral system one can
> > > think
> >
> > That old Deva Vu is kicking in.
> > In the past I have heard or read
> > It's generally accepted among political scientists
> > that
> >
> > Free Enterprise is the least fair economic system,
> > Communism is the wave of the Future,
> > Democarcy has failed.
> >
> > For the past 100 years few have had the unbroken
> > record of being utterly wrong time after time that
> > "political scientists" have shown.
> >
> > Quirites,
> > Do you know that my hobby is restoring old cars?
> > That
> > I have restored some of the greatest of the
> classic
> > factory high performance cars from the 1960s?
> >
> > Most of you don't know this because I keep that
> > intrest that has NOTHING to do with Roma in it's
> > proper place outside of Nova Roma.
> >
> > I Haven't been attempting to enact laws that make
> > the
> > 1957 Chevrolet Nomad or the 1967 Pontiac GTO the
> > offical car of Nova Roma.
> >
> > The fans of Hip Hop music aren't demanding that we
> > base our culture on Gangsta Rap.
> >
> > The American Civil War buffs aren't attempting to
> > rewrite the Constitution along the lines of the
> one
> > used by the Richmond government.
> >
> > It seems that all our citizens who have intrests
> > that
> > have nothing to do with Roma are capable of
> > following
> > those outside intrests in other venues with one
> > exception.
> >
> > Some citizens who have an intrest in modern
> > political
> > theory seem to be incapable of seprating thier
> > intrest
> > in Roma from thier intrest in political ideas that
> > have nothing to do with Roma.
> >
> > There certainly isn't anything wrong with being
> > intrested in modern politics as long as you do
> like
> > the rest of us who have other outside intrests,
> and
> > persue them in a venue dedicated to those
> intrests.
> >
> > If you want a Micronation founded on the latest
> > ideas
> > of political scientists then start a new
> micronation
> > where you can create an "Island" or a society
> living
> > in the 6th Century after Ford or any other Utopia
> > you
> > want to persue, and come to Nova Roma when you
> want
> > to
> > persue Roman intrests.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
> =====
> "What do in life, echoes in eternity"
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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Salvete Omnes,

I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not up on the latest in
voting proceedures and that I remain somewhat confused by all the
alternatives recently proferred as corrections for our ills, but I'm
more than willing to give the experiments a try.
It always seemed to me that voting in AR was inherently unfair,
but it was much better than any alternative most people of antiquity
were given..namely, no choice but a king. Let me see if I understand
it correctly. If you are Roman, you might conceivably live anywhere
in the known world of the time and never even see Rome herself. So,
despite the fact that you could vote, you may never have that
opportunity. Others may be able to travel to Rome for festivities
and the vote, but how large a percentage of those with the vote could
actually do that? I suspect if we had to leave our jobs, homes and
families for a month or two in order to vote, very few of us would be
able to. So naturally, you would find a larger percentage of those
with disposable income in the voting queue.
Again, pardon my ignorance of it, but I always assumed
that "carrying a century or tribe" was the equivalent to the
electoral system whereby a candidate could conceivably lose the
popular vote, yet be elected according to the number of tribes or
centuries carried. The same thing that happened to us in the last
election here in the U.S. basically.
So, if one were to want a system that was very close to the
reality of AR, we would have to randomly be placed into two
groups...those in Rome and those not able to make it to Rome. Easy
enough to do with a computer program like the random step, but hardly
something any of us would wish since we are all able to make it to
the cista in reality. Hence, we have now broken away from AR in that
regard. And those who did come to Rome were the object of bribery and
coercion, again something we don't do (I don't think ;) yet).
To carry the majority of tribes, a full 18, naturally means that
you should have only 2 candidates per position. That is the only way
to ensure a majority. But I have never read of AR having so many run-
offs (or any) and yet there were many candidates up for elections. So
how did they do it? What was their method of counting? I'm sorry if
I'm showing enormous ignorance here, but I've never really studied
voting proceedures and the posts are so numerous I simply can't find
a good one to answer that. To me, the most votes wins the day, but I
understand that we simply can't do that. Could someone explain,
again, in simple terms, what is really known about their counting and
where we exactly depart from that because something is obviously
wrong.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> I Have tried to make it plain that my objection is the
> introduction of Modern political theory. We should be
> looking to Polybios or Cicero or perhaps even some
> writers from the Imperial period. Men who were
> concerned with the problems and theories of Roman
> government rather than the views of modern theorists
> who have little or no intrest in Roman government or
> culture.
>

"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:

> Where did I Mention the Senior Consul or his staff?

You did not mention us explicitly, but your response
to Cordus' post was either directed against the Senior
Consul and his staff or against some group of utopians
I've never seen posting here. So which was it?

> I Was replying to a person who happens to be a member
> of that staff, not to the staff in general, a staff
> that I have been informed several times consists of
> indiviuals who speek for themselves.

That's correct. We do. I'm also a member of that
staff, and as one of the people who worked on the
creation of the legislative proposal I have a stake
in criticism addressed against it.

> Sir, my point was and is modern political theories
> have as little to do with Roma as Classic Cars, Hip
> Hop music, and the American Civil War.

I'll respectfully disagree. We are a body politic, and
when tasked with writing an election law, I believe that
my oath of office, in which I promised to always uphold
the best interests of Nova Roma, requires me to produce
the best proposal I can produce, taking all available
information into account. That includes modern political
literature insofar as it is not (as the Borda Count
method would be) completely incommensurate with the
practices of Roma Antiqua.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
My Curule Aedile website is http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~gawne/ca.html

In a message dated 7/8/03 5:13:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gawne@...
writes:

> I'll respectfully disagree. We are a body politic, and
> when tasked with writing an election law, I believe that
> my oath of office, in which I promised to always uphold
> the best interests of Nova Roma, requires me to produce
> the best proposal I can produce, taking all available
> information into account. That includes modern political
> literature insofar as it is not (as the Borda Count
> method would be) completely incommensurate with the
> practices of Roma Antiqua.
>

Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
Salvete
Ah, but by doing that are we staying true to the model? I have a villa. I
try and keep it
as authentic Roman as possible, which means my gardeners cannot use leaf
blowers.
They use leaf rakes and water. This of course costs me more money.
We get can't caught up in modern argument by utilizing our mode of
communication.
True we tend to sound quite hypocritical using computers to vote and talk,
while talking about cistas, forums and Senates. By all definitions we cannot do
this. We have no natural
family groups, being a Roman citizen is a novelty, and if we ever had a major
EMP event that eliminated computers, Rome would dissolve.
But that to me is the beauty. We are all in Rome. Our Rome is in
cyberspace, yet we are all connected. We can all vote in Rome thanks to this
technology. Because of this we can research the ancients and we can adopt. We use the
technology to enhance the experience
but do not update the experience to the period of technology.
I am at a loss why more people cannot see this as I do.

Valete


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Octavia Indagatrix wrote, in part:

> Again, pardon my ignorance of it, but I always assumed
> that "carrying a century or tribe" was the equivalent to the
> electoral system whereby a candidate could conceivably lose the
> popular vote, yet be elected according to the number of tribes or
> centuries carried.

Yes, that's correct. Since the most senior centuries and tribes
contain fewer people then it's possible to win a majority of
the tribes or centuries without actually getting a majority of
the popular vote. But that's something we do to maintain the
spirit of Roman electoral systems. Indirect election, by tribes
and centuries, is at the core of the Roman republican form of
government.

> ... I have never read of AR having so many run-
> offs (or any) and yet there were many candidates up for elections. So
> how did they do it?

The centuries (or tribes) voted sequentially, with results being
announced as each century or tribe finished voting. The
candidates who had strong early results usually got the support
of later voting tribes or centuries. There was a realtime feedback
loop, where the more junior tribes or centuries took their cue
from the more senior. (There was also a lot of vote buying,
electioneering, client block voting, bribery, and other fine
traditional Roman practices.)

> What was their method of counting?

The rogators counted votes written on wax tablets that had been
dropped into a large urn called a cista. Whichever candidate(s)
got a majority of the votes of the tribe or century had the
vote of that tribe or century awarded to them.

> To me, the most votes wins the day,

That's correct. But it's the majority of votes of voting units,
which are not individual citizens but individual centuries or
tribes.

> ... Could someone explain,
> again, in simple terms, what is really known about their counting

I can recommend Gaius Iulius Scaurus as an authoritative voice of
information concerning the voting practices of Roma Antiqua. You
can find some of his excellent posts in the archive explaining
ancient voting, or perhaps he'll see your request and reply to it.

> and where we exactly depart from that

- We don't assemble on the Campus Martius to vote

- Citizens from all over the world are allowed to vote as long as
they have the means to access our Cista webpage and have a valid
voter code.

- In the past our centuries and tribes haven't voted sequentially,
though in the upcoming simulated election, we will see a modified
form of sequential voting for the centuries.

- We have not up until now allowed our voters to vote for as many
of the candidates as they wish, although at least some historical
sources tell us that the Romans of antiquity could. You'll also
be seeing this practice allowed in the upcoming simulated election.

- We allow all citizens to vote, rather than stopping the election
once a majority of the tribes or centuries have declared for enough
candidates to fill the vacancies. This is because in our constitution
we guarantee every citizen of Nova Roma the right to vote, even the
most junior.

-- Because of a variety of factors, we've often ended up with unfilled
vacancies, requiring runoff elections. The proposed election law
that will be tested in the simulated election will include a method
of eliminating almost every conceivable reason for a runoff election.

> because something is obviously wrong.

Yes, something is. The Senior Consul recognized this, ran for
election with it as part of his platform, and after many months
of work has a proposed solution. We who worked on that solution
hope that you and the rest of the populace will agree and make
it the law.

-- Marinus

qfabiusmaxmi@... writes:

> In a message dated 7/8/03 5:13:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> gawne@...
> writes:
>
>
> > I'll respectfully disagree. We are a body politic, and
> > when tasked with writing an election law, I believe that
> > my oath of office, in which I promised to always uphold
> > the best interests of Nova Roma, requires me to produce
> > the best proposal I can produce, taking all available
> > information into account. That includes modern political
> > literature insofar as it is not (as the Borda Count
> > method would be) completely incommensurate with the
> > practices of Roma Antiqua.
> >
> Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
> Salvete
> Ah, but by doing that are we staying true to the model?

I certainly believe that we are, Quintus Fabius. If I didn't,
then I'd be oathbroken before the gods, now wouldn't I?

> I have a villa. I try and keep it as authentic Roman as
> possible, which means my gardeners cannot use leaf blowers.

Purely out of curiosity, is that because the Romans of antiquity
didn't have leaf blowers? Or because a leaf blower would be
aesthetically offensive to the sensibilities of a Roman of the
Senatorial class?

Personally, I'd eschew the use of leaf blowers for the second reason,
as I consider the Romans to be emminently practical folk who adopted
such technologies as they found useful, but who also had a fine
sense of aesthetics.

> We have no natural family groups,

Sure we do. I offer you myself, my wife, and my two daughters,
all citizens, as proof. We're not the only natural family group
in Nova Roma either. I know that we're in a minority, but we
are here.

> if we ever had a major
> EMP event that eliminated computers, Rome would dissolve.

Gosh, I hope not. I'd sure be sending out paper mail to all of
the citizens in *my* province, trying to maintain communications.
(It certainly would slow the rate of communication, no doubt
about that.)

> But that to me is the beauty. We are all in Rome.

Yes Quintus Fabius, you're correct. Wherever we are, Rome is.

> Our Rome is in cyberspace,

It is, yes, but not only in cyberspace. Our Rome is in my
livingroom, with my wife wearing a palla over a tunica, talking
to my daughters about Roman Days and experimenting with Roman
recipes she gets from the Sodalitas Coq a Coq. Our Rome is
wherever two or three of us gather together to share our Romanitas.

[...]

> I am at a loss why more people cannot see this as I do.

I think you and I see things quite similarly Quintus Fabius.
We may differ on where the line gets drawn for assimilation
of the fruits of western civilization - all of which is the
child of Roma Antiqua - but our visions are not so different
as all that.

-- Marinus

--- Bill Gawne <gawne@...> wrote:

> "L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:
>
> > Where did I Mention the Senior Consul or his
> staff?
>
> You did not mention us explicitly, but your response
> to Cordus' post was either directed against the
> Senior
> Consul and his staff or against some group of
> utopians
> I've never seen posting here. So which was it?
>
> > I Was replying to a person who happens to be a
> member
> > of that staff, not to the staff in general, a
> staff
> > that I have been informed several times consists
> of
> > indiviuals who speek for themselves.
>
> That's correct. We do. I'm also a member of that
> staff, and as one of the people who worked on the
> creation of the legislative proposal I have a stake
> in criticism addressed against it.
>
> > Sir, my point was and is modern political theories
> > have as little to do with Roma as Classic Cars,
> Hip
> > Hop music, and the American Civil War.
>
> I'll respectfully disagree. We are a body politic,
> and
> when tasked with writing an election law, I believe
> that
> my oath of office, in which I promised to always
> uphold
> the best interests of Nova Roma, requires me to
> produce
> the best proposal I can produce, taking all
> available
> information into account. That includes modern
> political
> literature insofar as it is not (as the Borda Count
> method would be) completely incommensurate with the
> practices of Roma Antiqua.
>

Sir,
The best information in this case is information on
Roman Government during the Republican period.

If I'm rebuilding a Carburator for a 1963 Chevrolet I
don't read manuals for a 2003 Fuel Injection system.
The modern information has nothing to do with the task
at hand.

I'm also speaking of a problem that is far larger than
the events of this year. Attempts to introduce modern
inovations in place of Roman traditions predate both
of our citizenships. This problem has been going on
for years not just the few months since last January.
It has consumed time and effort that could have been
directed towards Roma, has produced fights that have
resulted in citizens resigning in anger, and has
resulted in citizens fleeing Nova Roma without
bothering to resign.

This years events are just one chapter in a book. A
Book who's story is years of time wasted over matters
that have nothing to do with the reason we are here,
Roma.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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Salve, Urania Calidia

You most certainly can! Probably the two most familiar versions of "The Last
Days of Pompeii" are the 1935 film starring Preston Foster and Basil
Rathbone, and the 1959 film starring Steve Reeves and Christine Kaufmann. The latter
is on VHS; I'm not sure about the former.

If you have other questions concerning ancient Rome on film, I would be happy
to try to answer them. It's sort of an interest of mine.

Vale,

G. Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

It appears that there are two Quinti Cassi in Nova Roma. I will
always sign my posts as Q. Cassius Calvus or Quintus Cassius Calvus,
depending on how lazy I am at the keyboard that day. <G> Just want
to let people know there are two Quinti Cassi but only there is only
one Calvus.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Those "burly men" are held to a higher standard than
teachers are. If they don't produce they are soon told
to turn in the spandex. Inept teachers are all too
often protected by tenure and/or union contracts.

--- Madcap <barc@...> wrote:

> Teachers are forced to put up with this as their
> motivation, while burly men in spandex suits who
> throw a dead pig past a line are paid millions. And
> we wonder what's happening to the youth!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:15 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: All teachers Cringe
>
>
> I had tears in my eyes when reading some of the
> students comments.
> The teacher who put this together should get an
> A+. lol.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diane Holloway
> <karayagirl@y...>
> wrote:
> > I will never look at history the same way again.
> LOL
> >
> >SNIP
>
>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
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>
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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