Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jul 30-31, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13541 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Absens until August the 17th
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13542 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Rings and things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13543 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Greek Manuscripts on Roman History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13544 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Once again the Annulus - Roman rings - Nova Roman Rings
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13545 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: the N
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13546 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13547 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13548 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13549 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Nova Roma provender
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13550 From: aoctaviaindagatrix Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13551 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13552 From: caiustarquitius@gmx.de Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13553 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: A movie on Pompei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13554 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13555 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13556 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13557 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13558 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: A movie on Pompei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13559 From: Max Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13560 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13561 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13562 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13563 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13564 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13565 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: A movie on Pompei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13566 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13567 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13568 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13569 From: Quintus Cassius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13570 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13571 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13572 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13573 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13574 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13575 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13576 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13577 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13578 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13579 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13580 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: New Book on the Religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13581 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13582 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13583 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13584 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Bush Regales Dinner Guests With Impromptu Oratory On Virgil's Minor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13585 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: The Next fight on the ML
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13586 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: The Next fight on the ML
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13587 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13588 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: The Next fight on the ML
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13589 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New Book on the Religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13590 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13591 From: Madcap Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: divine triumph {was (unknown)}
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13592 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: divine triumph {was (unknown)}



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13541 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Absens until August the 17th
Salvete!

I'll be thinking of all of you who are at the Rally this year, which due to
empty pockets, I will miss <loud sigh>.
If any of you are passing through Belgica on the way home, my door is open!

Valete,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13542 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Rings and things
Salve Marinus,

I made a pendant from one of the Nova Roma coins that Merlinia gave me.
Marcus Cassius and Patricia Cassia were selling them. It looks pretty nice
too. Just another idea.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13543 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Greek Manuscripts on Roman History
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here are some links on the manuscript history of some ofthe Greek
langauge sources on Roman history:

Dio Cassius, "The Roman History":

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/dio_cassius.htm

Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "The Roman Antiquites":

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/dio_cassius.htm

Flavius Josephus, "The Jewish Antiquities":

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/josephus_antiquities.htm

Flavius Josephus, "The Jewish War":

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/josephus_jewish_war.htm

Flavius Jospehus, "the Jewish War" (Old Slavonic manuscripts):

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/josephus/slavonic.htm

These pages, created by Roger Pearse, an amateur codicologist, provide
an excellent summary of the manuscript stemmata of some of the
principal sources for Roman history in Greek. Pearse's work shows a
considerable mastery of the literature on manuscript transmission and
the transmission history of these manuscripts.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13544 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Once again the Annulus - Roman rings - Nova Roman Rings
Salvete Quirites!

In March when I took up the question about a Citizen's Ring I wrote
the text below. My idea rose many thoughts then, but in the end the
discussion died. I had hoped that I would be able to propose a
Senatus Consultum about this issue. Maybe we will get closer to that
this time. I am leaving for the Rally and will have to come back to
You all in the end of August about this.

****************
At 23.18 +0100 03-03-12, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
>Salvete Quirites et Salve Illustrus Caius Tarquitius Saturninus!
>
>I would like to propose that we discuss if we in Nova Roma should
>have ab official Citizen's Ring. Such a ring seem to have been in
>existance during the Republic, but mostly done in Iron. There where
>also rings of gold. What do you the citizens of Nova Roma think?
>
>The article below has been edited by me to suit my purpose. ;-)
>
>The following article is by Leonhard Schmitz, Ph.D., F.R.S.E., Rector
>of the High School of Edinburgh on pp 95-97 of William Smith, D.C.L.,
>"A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities", John Murray, London,
>1875. LL.D. It was found at RomanSites at :
>http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Annulus.html
>
>
>
>ANNULUS (daktuvlioV), a ring.
>
>RINGS IN GREECE
>Every freeman in Greece appears to have used a ring; and, at least in
>the earliest times, not as an ornament, but as an article for use, as
>the ring always served as a seal. Rings were mostly worn on the
>fourth finger (paravmesoV, Plut. Sympos. Fragm. lib.iv; Gellius,
>x.10). The Lacedaemonians are said to have used iron rings at all
>times (Plin. H.N. xxxiii.4). With the exception perhaps of Sparta,
>the law does not appear to have ever attempted in any Greek state to
>counteract the great partiality for this luxury; and nowhere in
>Greece does the right of wearing a gold ring appear to have been
>confined to a particular order or class of citizens.
>
>RINGS IN ROME
>The custom of wearing rings was believed to have been introduced into
>Rome by the Sabines, who are described in the early legends as
>wearing gold rings with precious stones (gemmati annuli) of great
>beauty (Liv. i.11; Dionys. ii.38). Florus (i.5) states that it was
>introduced from Etruria in the reign of Tarquinius Priscus, and Pliny
>(l.c.) derives it from Greece. The fact that among the statues of the
>Roman kings in the capitol, two, Numa and Servius Tullius, were
>represented with rings, can scarcely be adduced as an argument for
>their early use, as later artists would naturally represent the kings
>with such insignia as characterized the highest magistrates in later
>times.
>
>IRON RINGS - CITIZEN'S RINGS
>But at whatever time rings may have become customary at Rome, thus
>much is certain, that at first they were always of iron, that they
>were destined for the same purpose as in Greece, namely, to be used
>as seals, and that every free Roman had a right to use such a ring.
>This iron ring was used down to the last period of the republic by
>such men as loved the simplicity of the good old times. Marius wore
>an iron ring in his triumph over Jugurtha, and several noble families
>adhered to the ancient custom, and never wore gold ones (Plin. H.N.
>xxxiii.6).
>
>GOLDEN RINGS AND SENATORIAL AMBASSADORS
>When senators in the early times of the republic were sent as
>ambassadors to a foreign state, they wore during the time of their
>mission gold rings, which they received from the state, and which
>were perhaps adorned with some symbolic representation of the
>republic, and might serve as a state-seal. But ambassadors used gold
>rings only in public; in private they wore their iron ones (Plin.
>H.N. xxxiii.4).
>
>IUS ANNULI AUREI - THE RIGHT TO WEAR A GOLDEN SEAL RING
>In the course of time it became customary for all the senators, chief
>magistrates, and at last for the equites also, to wear a gold
>seal-ring (Liv. ix.7, 46, xxvi.36; Cic. c. Verr. iv.25; Liv.
>xxiii.12; Flor. ii.6). This right of wearing a gold ring, which was
>subsequently called the jus annuli aurei, or the jus annulorum,
>remained for several centuries at Rome the exclusive privilege of
>senators, magistrates, and equites, while all other persons continued
>to use iron ones (Appian, de Reb. Pun. 104).
>
>CONFERRING THE RIGHT TO WEAR RINGS
>Magistrates and governors of provinces seem to have had the right of
>conferring upon inferior officers, or such
>persons as had distinguished themselves, the privilege of wearing a
>gold ring. Verres thus presented his secretary with a gold ring in
>the assembly at Syracuse (Cic. c. Verr. iii.76, 80, ad Fam. x.32;
>Suet. Caes. 39). During the empire the right of granting the annulus
>aureus belonged to the emperors, and some of them were not very
>scrupulous in conferring this privilege.
>
>THE STATUS OF THE RING-WEARER
>The status of a person who had received the jus annuli appears to
>have differed at different times. During the republic and the early
>part of the empire the jus annuli seems to have made a person
>ingenuus (if he was a libertus), and to have raised him to the rank
>of eques, provided he had the requisite equestrian census (Suet.
>Galb. 10, 14; Tacit. Hist. i.13 ii.57), and it was probably never
>granted to any one who did not possess this census (Juv. Sat. xi.42;
>Mart. viii.5, ii.57).
>
>THE PRACTICAL PURPOSES
>The practical purposes, for which rings, or rather the figures
>engraved upon them, were used at all times, were the same as those
>for which we use our seals. Besides this, however, persons, when they
>left their houses, used to seal up such parts as contained stores or
>valuable things, in order to secure them from thieves, especially
>slaves (Plat. de Leg. xii. p954; Aristop. Thesmoph. 414, &c.; Plaut.
>Cas. ii.1.1; Cic. ad Fam. xvi.26, de Orat. ii.61; Mart. ix.88). ...
>The signs engraved upon rings were very various, as we may judge from
>the specimens still extant: they were portraits of ancestors, or
>friends, or subjects connected with the mythology, or the worship of
>the gods; and in many cases a person had engraved upon his seal
>symbolical allusions to the real or mythical history of his family
>(Cic. in Catil. iii.5; Val. Max. iii.5.1; Cic. de Finib. v.1; Suet.
>Tib. 58, 63; Plin. H.N. ii.7, &c.). Sulla thus wore a ring with a
>gem, on which Jugurtha was represented at the moment he was made
>prisoner (Plin. H.N. xxxvii.4; Plut. Mar. 10). Pompey used a ring on
>which three trophies were represented (Dion Cass. xlii.18), and
>Augustus at first sealed with a sphinx afterwards with a portrait of
>Alexander the Great, and at last with his own portrait, which was
>subsequently done by several emperors (Plin. H.N. xxxvii.4; Suet.
>Aug. 50; Dion Cass. li.3; Spartian. Hadr. 26).
>
>THE VALUE OF A RING
>The principal value of a ring consisted in the gem framed in it, or
>rather in the workmanship of the engraver. The stone most frequently
>used was the onyx (sardw'noV, sardovnux), on account of its various
>colours, of which the artists made the most skillful use. In the art
>of engraving figures upon gems, the ancients in point of beauty and
>execution far surpass every thing in this department that modern
>times can boast of. The ring itself (sfendovnh), in which the gem was
>set, was likewise in many cases of beautiful workmanship. The part of
>the ring which contained the gem was called pala. ...

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13545 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: the N
Salve (N) ova (Roma)
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?


What did the N stand for?


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve
>
> A number of months ago some posted to the ML that they were in the
process of researching a "Citizenship ring that would have a SPQNR on
the face. We debated the "N" as not being appropriate and the debate
petered out. I do not remember who posted on the Ring but they even
had a web site you could go to and see the type of ring they were
talking about.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: raymond fuentes
> To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com ; SPQR
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:39 PM
> Subject: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
> We have tossed the idea around...do we or don't we
get rings. Who do we propose this to, a comitia perhaps? Does anyone
at least agree that it is a good idea?
> Marcvs
Flavivs Fides
> Eager Roman
Citizen with naked fingers.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13546 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

> I would buy a NR "Citizenship Ring"
> if ...
...
> o it cost under $100 US
> o It cost between $101-$200 US
> o It cost between $201-$300 US
> o It cost under $ 500 US

Is there no box to tick for 'I'd buy it if I could pay
in my native currency instead of US dollars?'

For those who, like me, neither live in the USA nor
memorize exchange rates, here are a few conversions:

100 USD = 88.16 Euro
140.16 Canadian dollars
61.91 Pounds Sterling
12,028.48 Yen
153.29 Australian dollars

These conversions come from http://www.xe.com/ucc/ and
other currency conversions can also be calculated
there.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13547 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Salve

NR Will make money from the Rings what % I do not know yet but I would most likely join our
"Ordo Equester" and sell them on the website. You know a little free enterprise !

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship oath


While the Ring is a great idea, I didn't think it would be made a
gift.
They are costly depending upon the quality.
If approved I personally would make the purchase and think others
would do similarly though understandably not everyone may be in
aposition to do this.
I wouldn't ecpect Nova Roma to fork the bill.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> raymond fuentes wrote:
> > Who do we propose this to officially?
> > A comitia, perhaps?
>
> Salve, Marce Flavi Fides.
>
> You, or any other citizen so inclined, is most welcome to start
> producing whatever merchandise of a roman character and apply for
> membership in the Ordo Equester. If whoever does this wants it to
be an
> exclusive, "official nova roman ring", I am certain that the senate
> would be willing to at least consider granting their approval.
>
> For a ring to be given to each new citizen upon them receiving their
> citizenship, our budget would have to be able to cover such an
expense.
> Which it is not. So even IF some legislation stating this was to be
done
> got proposed to a comitia and passed there, there would be no way to
> adhere to that law.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13548 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Salve Tiberi Galeri;
I would certainly buy one, nothing like a little Roman commerce
to build a nation!
Vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve
>
> NR Will make money from the Rings what % I do not know yet but I
would most likely join our
> "Ordo Equester" and sell them on the website. You know a little
free enterprise !
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:18 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship oath
>
>
> While the Ring is a great idea, I didn't think it would be made a
> gift.
> They are costly depending upon the quality.
> If approved I personally would make the purchase and think others
> would do similarly though understandably not everyone may be in
> aposition to do this.
> I wouldn't ecpect Nova Roma to fork the bill.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...>
wrote:
> > raymond fuentes wrote:
> > > Who do we propose this to officially?
> > > A comitia, perhaps?
> >
> > Salve, Marce Flavi Fides.
> >
> > You, or any other citizen so inclined, is most welcome to start
> > producing whatever merchandise of a roman character and apply
for
> > membership in the Ordo Equester. If whoever does this wants it
to
> be an
> > exclusive, "official nova roman ring", I am certain that the
senate
> > would be willing to at least consider granting their approval.
> >
> > For a ring to be given to each new citizen upon them receiving
their
> > citizenship, our budget would have to be able to cover such an
> expense.
> > Which it is not. So even IF some legislation stating this was
to be
> done
> > got proposed to a comitia and passed there, there would be no
way to
> > adhere to that law.
> >
> > Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13549 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-07-30
Subject: Nova Roma provender
Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica writes:

(about NR rings)
> I would certainly buy one, nothing like a little Roman commerce
> to build a nation!

Oh, definitely! Along those lines, I'd encourage all interested to
buy a few sesterci, some books, a statue or two, and a nice Nova Roma
flag from the Macellum store.

http://novaroma.org/macellum/

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13550 From: aoctaviaindagatrix Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Salve,

I also took the poll. But I have a question. Wasn't it the
senatorial ring of the oldest families, assuming they didn't lose
them, that was made of iron because Roma was just another little
village when this all started and that was the material at hand?
Weren't all other senators using precious metals? Most of
the "common" pieces found now are made of bronze, yes? With the
silver and gold pieces taking up the rest of the majority of found
pieces? Stainless steel is new, yes?

Also consider that iron..not steel..is a reactive metal and a lot
of people simply can't wear them. Plain iron also rusts and isn't
very pretty and it will leave marks on your clothes, too. There isn't
anything wrong or modern about using gold or silver and it is far
less reactive. But I'm all for a choice in the matter with the cost
being commiserate with the material, i.e. cheapest ones plain iron,
then steel or bronze, then silver then gold. Would that be too hard?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> Salivate Quires,
> outstanding poll!! I implore all citizens to
answer. I truly believe this is a step forward if it comes true. I
would actually strain myself looking at peoples hands from here on
out trying to find fellow Romain. I believe the iron would work best
for citizens and more precious alloys for magistrates or outstanding
citizens worthy of notice. Where do we go from here, I do not want
the matter to fade away as other citizens have mentioned it has in
the past. Does anyone know a manufacturer?
> Valet,
> Marc vs
Flavors Fades
> P.S.-What were the results for the mock vote?
>
> Nova-Roma@yahoo groups.com wrote:

>
>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13551 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.

Salve, T. Labiene.

> > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
>
> Nope.
>
> Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
>
> Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> adjective at the end is correct.

SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman Senate
and People). The CIL database is down, so I can't give you an URL to
epigraphic examples, but here is a reference to an occurrence in the
_Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/resgestae.html

Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
adjective (Romanus) in agreement. The NR version should be Senatus
Populusque Novus Romanus.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13552 From: caiustarquitius@gmx.de Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
It was the following site: www.tarquitii.com
Caius


> I would assume 'NOVA'
>
> Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius <mballetta@...> wrote:What did the N
> stand for?
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
> wrote:
> > Salve
> >
> > A number of months ago some posted to the ML that they were in the
> process of researching a "Citizenship ring that would have a SPQNR on
> the face. We debated the "N" as not being appropriate and the debate
> petered out. I do not remember who posted on the Ring but they even
> had a web site you could go to and see the type of ring they were
> talking about.
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: raymond fuentes
> > To: novaroma@yahoogroups.com ; SPQR
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:39 PM
> > Subject: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
> >
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> > We have tossed the idea around...do we or don't we
> get rings. Who do we propose this to, a comitia perhaps? Does anyone
> at least agree that it is a good idea?
> > Marcvs
> Flavivs Fides
> > Eager Roman
> Citizen with naked fingers.
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
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> >
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> Service.
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> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13553 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: A movie on Pompei
The Franco-Canadian realizer Yves Simoneau wants to make a film, of
an amount estimated at 70 million dollars, on the catastrophe of
Pompei. His intention is to make a movie like "Titanic"... I hope
Celine Dion will not sing in it ! ;)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13554 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Absentia
Salve Amice,

> Anche tu.

In engliash means "You too".
Yes, Amice, as Curule Aedile I'm the organizer and as Propraetor
Provinciae Italiae I'm the "welcomer" ... I must to go ;-)

And after an year of hard job I need a couple of week of relax :-P

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13555 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Citizenship oath
Again, a most splendid idea.

Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote: Salve

NR Will make money from the Rings what % I do not know yet but I would most likely join our
"Ordo Equester" and sell them on the website. You know a little free enterprise !

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship oath


While the Ring is a great idea, I didn't think it would be made a
gift.
They are costly depending upon the quality.
If approved I personally would make the purchase and think others
would do similarly though understandably not everyone may be in
aposition to do this.
I wouldn't ecpect Nova Roma to fork the bill.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> raymond fuentes wrote:
> > Who do we propose this to officially?
> > A comitia, perhaps?
>
> Salve, Marce Flavi Fides.
>
> You, or any other citizen so inclined, is most welcome to start
> producing whatever merchandise of a roman character and apply for
> membership in the Ordo Equester. If whoever does this wants it to
be an
> exclusive, "official nova roman ring", I am certain that the senate
> would be willing to at least consider granting their approval.
>
> For a ring to be given to each new citizen upon them receiving their
> citizenship, our budget would have to be able to cover such an
expense.
> Which it is not. So even IF some legislation stating this was to be
done
> got proposed to a comitia and passed there, there would be no way to
> adhere to that law.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13556 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Salve Gai Iuli

> SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman Senate
> and People).

Every time I've asserted that, someone's come along and told me that it's
Senatus Populusque Quiritum Romanorum. Every time I've included
the "Quiritum", someone's told me it shouldn't be there. LOL

> ..but here is a reference to an occurrence in the
> _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:

The reference is much appreciated. Multas gratias tibi ago.

> Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> adjective (Romanus) in agreement.

Yes. Romanorum is masculine, though. It's just in the genitive to match the
erroneous Quiritum (meaning Roman cives, rather than a spear)--assuming I
haven't managed to botch the basic grammar as well as the phrase, that is.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13557 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Salve,
I am happy to see that the idea is not losing steam. As long as we remain head strong and united (as in most cases) the idea will not founder. I also agree that magistrates should have different or special rings. As long as all the rings can be readily identifiable as NR rings. The prominent SPQR should help alleviate confusion and thus promote solidarity (which is the ultimate goal!) no matter what style ring you wear. If this creates too much of a debate, all citizens can wear a design (Basic) that we all agree on and deal with the other topics as they come along. In this way the matter goes forward and not backward.
Vale
Marcvs Flavivs Fides

Quintus Cassius <quintuscassius@...> wrote:

Salve,

This concept of a Citizen's ring is an excellent idea for all citizens. After this poll is concluded we should have a discussion on the concept of the ring (i.e. design) if we are to take such a matter seriously once public opinion has been gathered. I would definitely support special rings for certain elected officials (i.e. Consuls and maybe extended to Senators or Consuls and Senators or simply to Consuls). Great idea and may it gain more ground to come true.

Quintus Cassius


"What we do in life, echoes in eternity", "Virtute et armis"

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13558 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: A movie on Pompei
I agree, no Celion.

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis <pjtuloup@...> wrote:The Franco-Canadian realizer Yves Simoneau wants to make a film, of
an amount estimated at 70 million dollars, on the catastrophe of
Pompei. His intention is to make a movie like "Titanic"... I hope
Celine Dion will not sing in it ! ;)


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13559 From: Max Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Absentia
Salvete omnes!

I inform you that I'll be absent from 1st until August 17th.

Valete bene
Octavia Fabia Musica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13560 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Thanks for the additional Latin info.
P.S.
Interesting quote. It is so spot on when it comes to Nature
compensating for Her environment.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
>
> Nope.
>
> Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
>
> Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> adjective at the end is correct.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> People who take issue with control of population do not understand
that
> if it is not done in a graceful way, nature will do it in a brutal
fashion.
> -Henry Kendall
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13561 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Good idea. Here are some links to provide discussion material on
designs for signet purposes:

http://www.signetring.com/Signet_Rings/signet_rings.htm

http://www.family-crests.com/products/coa_rings.html

http://www.signet-rings.com/

http://www.familysealrings.com/order.html

As you can see, some of the designs can be pricey and a regular ring
without signet properties may be considered an alternate choice.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Quintus Cassius
<quintuscassius@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> This concept of a Citizen's ring is an excellent idea
for all citizens. After this poll is concluded we should have a
discussion on the concept of the ring (i.e. design) if we are to take
such a matter seriously once public opinion has been gathered. I
would definitely support special rings for certain elected officials
(i.e. Consuls and maybe extended to Senators or Consuls and Senators
or simply to Consuls). Great idea and may it gain more ground to
come true.
>
> Quintus
Cassius
>
>
> "What we do in life, echoes in eternity", "Virtute et armis"
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13562 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
Interesting idea. Reminiscent of what Cleaopatra did in the Liz
Taylor movie with Ceasars coins and the necklace.
I've been meaning to puchase a few myself but you just can't charge
them; I need to open a PayPal account first.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
>
> I made a pendant from one of the Nova Roma coins that Merlinia gave
me.
> Marcus Cassius and Patricia Cassia were selling them. It looks
pretty nice
> too. Just another idea.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13563 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
P.S.
Merlinia my Mater Ambrosia Artori?
She is wonderful.
That's right, you mentioned being roomies at the last Roma get
together.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
>
> I made a pendant from one of the Nova Roma coins that Merlinia gave
me.
> Marcus Cassius and Patricia Cassia were selling them. It looks
pretty nice
> too. Just another idea.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13564 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
I was originally against the N but it has been growing on me
especially with this lated definition of Senatus Populusque Novus
Romanus - it "sound" more correct and pleasing than the Nova Roma.
I'm open to eithe with theN or without.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, T. Labiene.
>
> > > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
> >
> > Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> > adjective at the end is correct.
>
> SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman
Senate
> and People). The CIL database is down, so I can't give you an URL
to
> epigraphic examples, but here is a reference to an occurrence in
the
> _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/resgestae.html
>
> Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> adjective (Romanus) in agreement. The NR version should be Senatus
> Populusque Novus Romanus.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13565 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: A movie on Pompei
I do like her very much as performer and person but I see your point,
lol.
I remember seeing her perform in Vegas - her concert then on to the
opening of the Bellagio, dancing fountains to Andrea Boccelli and the
extensive art collection exhibit.
In keeping with Roma - Ceasars Palace had some wonderful animated
statues of the Gods perform some Mythology enactments.

I wonder if they will get that new Italian Hottie actress to appear?


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis"
<pjtuloup@y...> wrote:
> The Franco-Canadian realizer Yves Simoneau wants to make a film, of
> an amount estimated at 70 million dollars, on the catastrophe of
> Pompei. His intention is to make a movie like "Titanic"... I hope
> Celine Dion will not sing in it ! ;)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13566 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Absentia
Si, mi dispiace.
Divertiti!

Oops, sorry.
Anche tu,
Tu tambien,
Tua aucci.

Have a great time and enjoy yourself!




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Amice,
>
> > Anche tu.
>
> In engliash means "You too".
> Yes, Amice, as Curule Aedile I'm the organizer and as Propraetor
> Provinciae Italiae I'm the "welcomer" ... I must to go ;-)
>
> And after an year of hard job I need a couple of week of relax :-P
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13567 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
I'm no expert on Latin but I am fairly sure the Q is from the Que not
the Quiritum.
Senatus Populus"que" Romanus
seh-NAH-tuus paw-puu-LUUS-kweh roh-MAH-nuus
the Roman Senate and People
Abbreviated S.P.Q.R. and for the Romans, emlematic of their
constitution.
Eugene Ehrlich

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, labienus@n... wrote:
> Salve Gai Iuli
>
> > SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman
Senate
> > and People).
>
> Every time I've asserted that, someone's come along and told me
that it's
> Senatus Populusque Quiritum Romanorum. Every time I've included
> the "Quiritum", someone's told me it shouldn't be there. LOL
>
> > ..but here is a reference to an occurrence in the
> > _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:
>
> The reference is much appreciated. Multas gratias tibi ago.
>
> > Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a
masculine
> > adjective (Romanus) in agreement.
>
> Yes. Romanorum is masculine, though. It's just in the genitive to
match the
> erroneous Quiritum (meaning Roman cives, rather than a spear)--
assuming I
> haven't managed to botch the basic grammar as well as the phrase,
that is.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13568 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Salve,
Although the 'N' has a sort of ring to it, I agree that on a ring, banner or vexillum, it would be too cumbersome as well as untraditional. We are supposed to be Rome 'resurgens' not entirely, totally 'new'. Does that make sense, Quires?
Marcvs Flavivs Fides

Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius <mballetta@...> wrote:
I was originally against the N but it has been growing on me
especially with this lated definition of Senatus Populusque Novus
Romanus - it "sound" more correct and pleasing than the Nova Roma.
I'm open to eithe with theN or without.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, T. Labiene.
>
> > > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
> >
> > Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> > adjective at the end is correct.
>
> SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman
Senate
> and People). The CIL database is down, so I can't give you an URL
to
> epigraphic examples, but here is a reference to an occurrence in
the
> _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/resgestae.html
>
> Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> adjective (Romanus) in agreement. The NR version should be Senatus
> Populusque Novus Romanus.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13569 From: Quintus Cassius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Dang....I thing I wanna vacation in Australia or China.....ehh maybe not China
Quintus Cassius

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

> I would buy a NR "Citizenship Ring"
> if ...
...
> o it cost under $100 US
> o It cost between $101-$200 US
> o It cost between $201-$300 US
> o It cost under $ 500 US

Is there no box to tick for 'I'd buy it if I could pay
in my native currency instead of US dollars?'

For those who, like me, neither live in the USA nor
memorize exchange rates, here are a few conversions:

100 USD = 88.16 Euro
140.16 Canadian dollars
61.91 Pounds Sterling
12,028.48 Yen
153.29 Australian dollars

These conversions come from http://www.xe.com/ucc/ and
other currency conversions can also be calculated
there.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13570 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Salvete omnes,

You could make the ring from iron or steel. If someone wants to
upgrade to 18 carat gold or silver any competent goldsmith can just
make a mold from the ring and make a great copy. I am doing just that
with my Irish friendship wedding ring that has been causing me a
little irritation because of a protruding crown.

Also the NR ring would have to have the SPQR and laurels ass
backwards if you wished to stamp wax tablets like Ben Hur made with
his ring to tell of Masella.

Regards,

Quintus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix"
<bryanta003@h...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I also took the poll. But I have a question. Wasn't it the
> senatorial ring of the oldest families, assuming they didn't lose
> them, that was made of iron because Roma was just another little
> village when this all started and that was the material at hand?
> Weren't all other senators using precious metals? Most of
> the "common" pieces found now are made of bronze, yes? With the
> silver and gold pieces taking up the rest of the majority of found
> pieces? Stainless steel is new, yes?
>
> Also consider that iron..not steel..is a reactive metal and a
lot
> of people simply can't wear them. Plain iron also rusts and isn't
> very pretty and it will leave marks on your clothes, too. There
isn't
> anything wrong or modern about using gold or silver and it is far
> less reactive. But I'm all for a choice in the matter with the cost
> being commiserate with the material, i.e. cheapest ones plain iron,
> then steel or bronze, then silver then gold. Would that be too hard?
>
> Vale,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > Salivate Quires,
> > outstanding poll!! I implore all citizens to
> answer. I truly believe this is a step forward if it comes true. I
> would actually strain myself looking at peoples hands from here on
> out trying to find fellow Romain. I believe the iron would work
best
> for citizens and more precious alloys for magistrates or
outstanding
> citizens worthy of notice. Where do we go from here, I do not want
> the matter to fade away as other citizens have mentioned it has in
> the past. Does anyone know a manufacturer?
> > Valet,
> > Marc
vs
> Flavors Fades
> > P.S.-What were the results for the mock vote?
> >
> > Nova-Roma@yahoo groups.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13571 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: NR
Salvete omnes,

Oh, one more thing. The ring would sure be a great way to identify
one another in the world something like the free masons, engineer or
university graduates do.

Regards,

Quintus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13572 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
Salve,
my point exactly. You never know where our fellow citizens might show up. I mentioned this exact thing, yesterday, I believe. I said I would find myself looking at people's hands more often looking for the tell - tale sign of Romanitas. It's exciting, really.
Vale.

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

Oh, one more thing. The ring would sure be a great way to identify
one another in the world something like the free masons, engineer or
university graduates do.

Regards,

Quintus


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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13573 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Assuredly!
The ring should resemble the flag; there is no N on the flag so there
should be no N on the ring.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
> Although the 'N' has a sort of ring to it, I agree that on a ring,
banner or vexillum, it would be too cumbersome as well as
untraditional. We are supposed to be Rome 'resurgens' not entirely,
totally 'new'. Does that make sense, Quires?
>
Marcvs Flavivs Fides
>
>snip
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13574 From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
LOL, Hong Kong and Maccao don't suck even with the terretories going
back to communist rule; just the opening needed to make the gradual
change to something more democratic or capitalistic.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Quintus Cassius
<quintuscassius@y...> wrote:
> Dang....I thing I wanna vacation in Australia or China.....ehh
maybe not China
> Quintus
Cassius
>
> "A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> > I would buy a NR "Citizenship Ring"
> > if ...
> ...
> > o it cost under $100 US
> > o It cost between $101-$200 US
> > o It cost between $201-$300 US
> > o It cost under $ 500 US
>
> Is there no box to tick for 'I'd buy it if I could pay
> in my native currency instead of US dollars?'
>
> For those who, like me, neither live in the USA nor
> memorize exchange rates, here are a few conversions:
>
> 100 USD = 88.16 Euro
> 140.16 Canadian dollars
> 61.91 Pounds Sterling
> 12,028.48 Yen
> 153.29 Australian dollars
>
> These conversions come from http://www.xe.com/ucc/ and
> other currency conversions can also be calculated
> there.
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
> www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13575 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
Salve

Our Flag and our coins have SPQR not SPQNR our rings should be consistent.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?


I was originally against the N but it has been growing on me
especially with this lated definition of Senatus Populusque Novus
Romanus - it "sound" more correct and pleasing than the Nova Roma.
I'm open to eithe with theN or without.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, T. Labiene.
>
> > > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
> >
> > Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> > adjective at the end is correct.
>
> SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman
Senate
> and People). The CIL database is down, so I can't give you an URL
to
> epigraphic examples, but here is a reference to an occurrence in
the
> _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/resgestae.html
>
> Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> adjective (Romanus) in agreement. The NR version should be Senatus
> Populusque Novus Romanus.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13576 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
I believe, depending on the sort of deals manufacturers gives us, that their will probably be a couple of styles. A 'basic' style that our Senate and people agree on and 'secondary' perhaps a little more elaborate styles for those citizens that have served NR as magistrates or in the style as you describe below. As I stated earlier to another citizen, the fact that the ring should be readily identifiable to our fellow citizens means that although rings may vary in style, the original 'basic' outline must somehow be adhered to. Namely, the SPQR on top in a standard lettering and color. I guess the size of the lettering would differ depending on the style. Any thoughts?
Marcvs Flavivs Fides

Quintus Cassius <quintuscassius@...> wrote:
Well one possibility or idea that just popped into my head was have SPQR on the flat of a ring where say a stone would be inserted whatever you call that and like college rings have NR or symbolism of NR on the side like how you place "BA" "BS" and the various other degress on college rings and an optional design or something on the other side. have a wreath on their too maybe somewhere like on the NR flag. ehhh.....I could do a million things to "customize" it to my liking but a "basic" idea is good and create various other options for customization.
Quintus Cassius

raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
Salve,
I am happy to see that the idea is not losing steam. As long as we remain head strong and united (as in most cases) the idea will not founder. I also agree that magistrates should have different or special rings. As long as all the rings can be readily identifiable as NR rings. The prominent SPQR should help alleviate confusion and thus promote solidarity (which is the ultimate goal!) no matter what style ring you wear. If this creates too much of a debate, all citizens can wear a design (Basic) that we all agree on and deal with the other topics as they come along. In this way the matter goes forward and not backward.
Vale
Marcvs Flavivs Fides

Quintus Cassius <quintuscassius@...> wrote:

Salve,

This concept of a Citizen's ring is an excellent idea for all citizens. After this poll is concluded we should have a discussion on the concept of the ring (i.e. design) if we are to take such a matter seriously once public opinion has been gathered. I would definitely support special rings for certain elected officials (i.e. Consuls and maybe extended to Senators or Consuls and Senators or simply to Consuls). Great idea and may it gain more ground to come true.

Quintus Cassius


"What we do in life, echoes in eternity", "Virtute et armis"

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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13577 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
As well they shall be, I would think we all agree on this.

Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:Salve

Our Flag and our coins have SPQR not SPQNR our rings should be consistent.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?


I was originally against the N but it has been growing on me
especially with this lated definition of Senatus Populusque Novus
Romanus - it "sound" more correct and pleasing than the Nova Roma.
I'm open to eithe with theN or without.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, T. Labiene.
>
> > > SPQNR would be Senatus PopulusQue Nova Roma
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Senatus Populusque Quiritum Novorum Romanorum
> >
> > Though, come to think of it, I'm not at all sure that the double
> > adjective at the end is correct.
>
> SPQR is an abbreviation of Senatus Populusque Romanus (The Roman
Senate
> and People). The CIL database is down, so I can't give you an URL
to
> epigraphic examples, but here is a reference to an occurrence in
the
> _Res Gestae Divi Augusti 14:
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/resgestae.html
>
> Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> adjective (Romanus) in agreement. The NR version should be Senatus
> Populusque Novus Romanus.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus



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Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13578 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
Salve

The ring should also be nice enough to sell to other "Romans" like re-enactors.

Vale

Tiberius


----- Original Message -----
From: raymond fuentes
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mjk@...
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR


Salve,
my point exactly. You never know where our fellow citizens might show up. I mentioned this exact thing, yesterday, I believe. I said I would find myself looking at people's hands more often looking for the tell - tale sign of Romanitas. It's exciting, really.
Vale.

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

Oh, one more thing. The ring would sure be a great way to identify
one another in the world something like the free masons, engineer or
university graduates do.

Regards,

Quintus


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Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13579 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)
Salve

We can have rings of Bronze and Silver or Iron but as you say they will turn you finger green. Stainless steel will look like silver but not turn your finger green. Design will be as group and based on cost.

Vale

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: aoctaviaindagatrix
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:48 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma (Citizen Rings)


Salve,

I also took the poll. But I have a question. Wasn't it the
senatorial ring of the oldest families, assuming they didn't lose
them, that was made of iron because Roma was just another little
village when this all started and that was the material at hand?
Weren't all other senators using precious metals? Most of
the "common" pieces found now are made of bronze, yes? With the
silver and gold pieces taking up the rest of the majority of found
pieces? Stainless steel is new, yes?

Also consider that iron..not steel..is a reactive metal and a lot
of people simply can't wear them. Plain iron also rusts and isn't
very pretty and it will leave marks on your clothes, too. There isn't
anything wrong or modern about using gold or silver and it is far
less reactive. But I'm all for a choice in the matter with the cost
being commiserate with the material, i.e. cheapest ones plain iron,
then steel or bronze, then silver then gold. Would that be too hard?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> Salivate Quires,
> outstanding poll!! I implore all citizens to
answer. I truly believe this is a step forward if it comes true. I
would actually strain myself looking at peoples hands from here on
out trying to find fellow Romain. I believe the iron would work best
for citizens and more precious alloys for magistrates or outstanding
citizens worthy of notice. Where do we go from here, I do not want
the matter to fade away as other citizens have mentioned it has in
the past. Does anyone know a manufacturer?
> Valet,
> Marc vs
Flavors Fades
> P.S.-What were the results for the mock vote?
>
> Nova-Roma@yahoo groups.com wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13580 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: New Book on the Religio Romana
Salvete Quirites;
the Pontifex Graecus on the Religio list has just posted a
recommendation for a wonderful book on the Religio Romana that can
serve as our basic text. It explains everything.
It is "An Introduction to Roman Religion" by John Scheid.
Just go to the Macellum on the Nova Roma page and the link is already
there.
Valete, Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13581 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Cassius, M. Ambrosius
Belisarius and all citizens & peregrines, greetings.

> > Dang....I thing I wanna vacation in Australia or
> > China.....ehh
> > maybe not China
> >
> LOL, Hong Kong and Maccao don't suck even with the
> terretories going
> back to communist rule; just the opening needed to
> make the gradual
> change to something more democratic or capitalistic.

By Yen I meant the Japanese Yen, rather than the
Chinese Yuan, just in case anyone's confused.

And believe it or not, fellas, it is possible to have
a nice holiday in a country that's not democratic or
capitalist... :)

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13582 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: [mediatlanticaprovincia] citizen rings, yea or nea?
G. Iulius Scaurus T. Labieno Fortunato salutem dicit.

Salve, T. Labiene.

> > Senatus and populus are masculine and therefore require a masculine
> > adjective (Romanus) in agreement.
>
> Yes. Romanorum is masculine, though. It's just in the genitive to match the
> erroneous Quiritum (meaning Roman cives, rather than a spear)--assuming I
> haven't managed to botch the basic grammar as well as the phrase, that is.

I apologise for my unclarity. What I meant by "in agreement" was "in
the case of the nouns it modifies."

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13583 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
-----Original Message-----
From : Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius <mballetta@...>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 31 July 2003 18:01:53
Subject : [Nova-Roma] Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
LOL, Hong Kong and Maccao don't suck even with the terretories going
>back to communist rule; just the opening needed to make the gradual
>change to something more democratic or capitalistic.
>
They're no less capitalistic than ever! Just H-K is less democratic than before Beijing took over. All the same, it was never democratic at all while a Crown colony, so this sudden loss follows an even more sudden gain. The East is evidence though that free-choice politics and free-choice economics don't always go together. If any of them except Japan is any kind of democracy, is a very controlled almost fascistic one and they seem to like it that way. China's interesting in that it absorbs everything, but Marx actually stated that Captialism must follow Feudalism before Socialism, something Lenin and Mao rewrote the book to claim special exemption from. In a way, they are closer to that (very typically 19th century) 'ever-onward, ever-upward' belief than any of the others by fostering a sort of capitalism. Given that the length of their civilisation can give Ancient Egypt a run for its money, I suspect the pragmatic "Doesn't matter what colour the cat is as long as it catches mice" rather than dogma. China's the only great civilisation to have managed without a significant national religion. Lots of gods but they were only burocrats, not very 'religious'.

I have often maintained that a human, taken alone, is no human at all; only as a member of a reasoning group can a person be completely human - Konrad Lorenz, Abbau des Menschlichen (The Waning of Humaneness) 1987.



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13584 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Bush Regales Dinner Guests With Impromptu Oratory On Virgil's Minor
Salvete quirites,

This is hilarious.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3713/bush_regales_guests.html

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13585 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: The Next fight on the ML
Salve

I propose that any Nova Roman who's initials spells a drug or is an abbreviation for adrug , ie LSD ( in any language) , must buy each citizen a "Citizenship" ring made out of 24k GOLD.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13586 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: The Next fight on the ML
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus writes:

> I propose that any Nova Roman who's initials spells a drug or is an
> abbreviation for adrug , ie LSD ( in any language) , must buy each
> citizen a "Citizenship" ring made out of 24k GOLD.

What an outrage! The very suggestion sir! (And I'm not about to
buy any GEM's for the Citizenry At Large either.)

I recommend that you go prostrate yourself at the feet of
Senator LSD now and beg his merciful forgiveness. If that
doesn't work, offer him a special deal on a ring.

-- Marinus

(Hey Tiberius, how about an existential flamewar next?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13587 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: NR
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Oh, one more thing. The ring would sure be a great way to identify
> one another in the world something like the free masons, engineer
or
> university graduates do.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus

You're right. That way if I see that ring in a crowd, I'll know who
to avoid. <G>

Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13588 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: The Next fight on the ML
The Check is in the mail, my secratary is Helen Wait,
if you don't get it go to Helen Wait. <G>

--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> I propose that any Nova Roman who's initials spells
> a drug or is an abbreviation for adrug , ie LSD (
> in any language) , must buy each citizen a
> "Citizenship" ring made out of 24k GOLD.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13589 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: New Book on the Religio Romana
Salve,
I just went and ordered it. I hope it will give me a more in depth
look at the Religio.

Vale,

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
AIM: Walhalla47
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13590 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: Rings and things
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, omnes.

In the republic the ius annuli was accorded to every ingenuus (freeborn
Roman citizen). The ius annuli entitled the ingenuus the right to a
signet ring which could be used as a legally-binding indicator of the
owner's property and his assent to legal documents. Most such rings
were iron, although some patrician families adopted silver or gold.
The ingenuus chose the image of the signet. The idea of a ring with
the same image on the signet for all citizens, much less an
abbreviation indicating that all citizens are acting officially on
behalf of the state (SPQR), would have ludicrous to a Roman. Roman
citizenship wasn't something indicated by something akin to a class- or
lodge-rung.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13591 From: Madcap Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: divine triumph {was (unknown)}
Salve!

Speaking of Dyonisus, there's something I never understood. I just don't see why anyone would worship Dyonisus -- albeit theatrical types and otherwise. Did they hope to advance through drunken revelry?

chuckling,
cory
----- Original Message -----
From: GirlinBriteSandals
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:24 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)


Greetings,

I'm a Greek girl, from Delphi, living as concubine of Senator Troyanis who conquered Syria with Mark Antony.

I don't understand. A woman can't be Pater Familias or a citizen, except in Aristophanes haha. Are you playing Aristophanes or Amazons? These are two of my favorite stories to act out, at home, of course because girls don't act in the Sacred Theater of Dyonisus.

Please tell me how to play Nova roma because, when the Senator is at the Senate, I'm bored.

May Artemis Bless You,
GirlinBriteSandals


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 13592 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-07-31
Subject: Re: divine triumph {was (unknown)}
Like Xtians they hoped to gain a better place in the
Afterlife. Dyonisus died and was reborn.

--- Madcap <barc@...> wrote:
> Salve!
>
> Speaking of Dyonisus, there's something I never
> understood. I just don't see why anyone would
> worship Dyonisus -- albeit theatrical types and
> otherwise. Did they hope to advance through drunken
> revelry?
>
> chuckling,
> cory


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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