G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here are some more links on the manuscript history of both Latin and
Greek sources for Roman history:

The works of Tacitus:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/index.htm

Pliny, _Letters_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/pliny/pliny_mss.htm

Origen, _Contra Celsum_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/origen_contra_celsum.htm

Zosimus, _The New History_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/zosimus_new_history.htm

These pages, created by Roger Pearse, an amateur codicologist, provide
an excellent summary of the manuscript stemmata of some of the
principal sources for Roman history in Latin and Greek. Pearse's work
shows a considerable mastery of the literature on manuscript
transmission and the transmission history of these manuscripts.
Origen's "Contra Celsum" is the principal extant source for fragments
of the philosopher Celsus' anti-Christian treatise _True Doctrine_ and
Zosimus' _New History_ is the one of the most important late antique
historical texts by a polytheist.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve

I just had an idea ( the jokes are going to flow now)

Nova Roma need a "Virtual Library" as a place to put all the best writing and such about Rome and all in one place.

I think the Senate should appoint the Honorable G. Iulius Scaurus as Nova Roma's first librarian.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: g_iulius_scaurus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] More Manuscript Histories


G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here are some more links on the manuscript history of both Latin and
Greek sources for Roman history:

The works of Tacitus:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/index.htm

Pliny, _Letters_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/pliny/pliny_mss.htm

Origen, _Contra Celsum_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/origen_contra_celsum.htm

Zosimus, _The New History_:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/zosimus_new_history.htm

These pages, created by Roger Pearse, an amateur codicologist, provide
an excellent summary of the manuscript stemmata of some of the
principal sources for Roman history in Latin and Greek. Pearse's work
shows a considerable mastery of the literature on manuscript
transmission and the transmission history of these manuscripts.
Origen's "Contra Celsum" is the principal extant source for fragments
of the philosopher Celsus' anti-Christian treatise _True Doctrine_ and
Zosimus' _New History_ is the one of the most important late antique
historical texts by a polytheist.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salevete Omnes,

As a part of the Provinciae Galliae project, I need maps (free of
rights) of Imperium Romanum and Provinciae. Who knows to find such
maps ? Thanks in advance...

Valete !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis

G. Iulius Scaurus L. Rutilio Minverali salutem dicit.

Salve, L. Rutile.

> As a part of the Provinciae Galliae project, I need maps (free of
> rights) of Imperium Romanum and Provinciae. Who knows to find such
> maps ? Thanks in advance...

I think you'll be able to find what you at either the DIR map section:

http://www.roman-emperors.org/Index.htm

or the Interactive Ancient Mediterranean Atlas:

http://iam.classics.unc.edu/

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus T. Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, T. Galeri amice.

> I just had an idea ( the jokes are going to flow now)

Not from me; if you err, it is on the side of too many, not too few.

> Nova Roma need a "Virtual Library" as a place to put all the best writing and such about Rome and all in one place.
>
> I think the Senate should appoint the Honorable G. Iulius Scaurus as Nova Roma's first librarian.

There is, however, one idea I think you are lacking: an idea of just
how immensely time-consuming such a project would be. I have perhaps a
few thousand Roman-related links I've gathered and vetted over the
years, but there is so much more material out there to be read and
evaluated (I note that perhaps 50% of what is put on the net about
things Roman -- and that is a charitable questimate -- is either
nonsense or over-simplified, so that much which would be reviewed would
be rejected for such a library) that I doubt it could be done in a
lifetime. I do, of course, keep track of the links I post here and
shall eventually post a file of them to the files section of the ML.
My habit of posting links daily to the ML is a result of a vow I made
to Venus Genetrix to provide something of use to NR each day for a year
in thanks for my discovery of NR, my adoption into Gens Iulia, and
citizenship. I would be very disinclined to turn a votive obligation
into an official position of any sort.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Hello all,

Worship through ecstasy is known throughout all of the ancient world.
The cult of Dionysus was only one example.
In some cults certain drugs were used, in others alcohol and yet in
others (like in the Dionysus rites but also in the Kybele rites, also
performed in Roma) - they used self flagellation and self castration.
The purpose and the theological idea behind all these rites is the same:
to reach a different state of consciousness and thus become closer to
the divinity. Dionysus also had an important rite in magically
fertilizing the land. The rapture of orgies was supposed to be so
powerful, that it affected the fertility of the earth, and made vines
and other plants grow. Like all fertility rites in the ancient world
that involved sacred sex, it was a mystery cult. People were initiated
to it, and it was considered great honor to be part of it. I guess
another answer to "why would anyone worship Dionysus" is that it was
simply fun: processions, musical and theatrical performances, great
celebrations of freedom and a lot of wine. It was practically the annual
"Woodstock" of the time, with the obvious addition of profound religious
meaning.

By the way, this is my first message to the list. My name is Carmit (or
Victoria Durmia Trivia) and I am from Israel. So greetings to everyone

Carmit


-----Original Message-----
From: Madcap [mailto:barc@...]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:01 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] divine triumph {was (unknown)}

Salve!

Speaking of Dyonisus, there's something I never understood. I just
don't see why anyone would worship Dyonisus -- albeit theatrical types
and otherwise. Did they hope to advance through drunken revelry?

chuckling,
cory



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Victoria Durmia Trivia writes:

> By the way, this is my first message to the list. My name is Carmit (or
> Victoria Durmia Trivia) and I am from Israel. So greetings to everyone

Salve Victoria Durmia! Welcome to Nova Roma and thank you for joining us.

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile, and Propraetor Mediatlantica provincia

Ex Officio Praetorium

EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE

The praetores of Nova Roma hereby define the guidelines for
appropriate usage of Nova Roma's public communication forum, currently
located at:
Nova_Roma@yahoogroups.com

These guidelines are based on the guidelines previously issued by
our predecessors (Pompeia Cornelia and Patricia Cassia). As praetores
of Nova Roma, though, we keep the right to change these guidelines in
the future.

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Please consider the following when expressing disagreement of opposing
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The arbitrary advertisment of goods and services (SPAM) is not
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The forum of Roma Antiquita was a large venue, with people of
different languages conversing, a few in this corner, a few in that
corner.
Rome was a very mulicultured place in her glory. Mind you official
information was in Latin, and in some cases Greek, but people were
free to speak informally as they wished in the language of their
choice.
Our constitution mandates freedom of communication provided it is not
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Currently, the praetores can understand Latin, Spanish, French,
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Thanks to the decuria of interpreters and to several magistrates or
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Praetors have many to thank for efforts in this regard.

***Exception: This does not contravene the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
Publicus
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lege/index/html
which stipulates, though comitial mandate, that any offical government
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where applicable, so they can be translated verbatim into other
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XI. Topics of Discussion

The main focus of this list is Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua. However,
as members of a diverse international community we all have lives and
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share your interest in these topics.

XII: The Praetors have the imperium to govern the list, but prefer to
encourage positive interaction as opposed to punishing negative
behaviour. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these
guidelines aforementioned, the following escalated courses of
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stating the incident of infarction, and a reminder to review the
guidelines. Often people who are new to the list are not intentionally
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2.- Another private memo as above.

3.- Moderated status (the poster may post but all posts
they issue are first reviewed by the Praetors or their designate).
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No citizen shall be kept in moderate status for more than 2 (two)
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without a firm sentence issued by a legal court as described by the
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http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

(For example: Nobody is going to be placed on moderated status for an
extended time for failure to trim posts or for saying 'me too')



Gnaeus Salix Astur,
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetores

Salve G. Iulius Scaurus

The webmasters could build the " Virtual Library" and they could place the site and material that you select in the library. You already know that 50% of the stuff should be disregarded so now you can pick and choose from the remaining 50 %. I and others would be happy to work as your assistants in finding stuff to include in the Nova Roma Library.

I hope you will at least take a little time to consider this. You can decide how much time you can give to this or if you can give any at all.

Vale


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: g_iulius_scaurus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:21 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roma's First Library


G. Iulius Scaurus T. Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, T. Galeri amice.

> I just had an idea ( the jokes are going to flow now)

Not from me; if you err, it is on the side of too many, not too few.

> Nova Roma need a "Virtual Library" as a place to put all the best writing and such about Rome and all in one place.
>
> I think the Senate should appoint the Honorable G. Iulius Scaurus as Nova Roma's first librarian.

There is, however, one idea I think you are lacking: an idea of just
how immensely time-consuming such a project would be. I have perhaps a
few thousand Roman-related links I've gathered and vetted over the
years, but there is so much more material out there to be read and
evaluated (I note that perhaps 50% of what is put on the net about
things Roman -- and that is a charitable questimate -- is either
nonsense or over-simplified, so that much which would be reviewed would
be rejected for such a library) that I doubt it could be done in a
lifetime. I do, of course, keep track of the links I post here and
shall eventually post a file of them to the files section of the ML.
My habit of posting links daily to the ML is a result of a vow I made
to Venus Genetrix to provide something of use to NR each day for a year
in thanks for my discovery of NR, my adoption into Gens Iulia, and
citizenship. I would be very disinclined to turn a votive obligation
into an official position of any sort.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve !

Thanks a lot for your help !

Vale !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus L. Rutilio Minverali salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, L. Rutile.
>
> > As a part of the Provinciae Galliae project, I need maps (free of
> > rights) of Imperium Romanum and Provinciae. Who knows to find
such
> > maps ? Thanks in advance...
>
> I think you'll be able to find what you at either the DIR map
section:
>
> http://www.roman-emperors.org/Index.htm
>
> or the Interactive Ancient Mediterranean Atlas:
>
> http://iam.classics.unc.edu/
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete

The maps of Chr. Nussli are fascinating... in the link
below there are the same maps (1 AD to 2000 AD).
A CD, with zoom etc, can be purchased.

http://www.euratlas.com/time1.htm

Vale
M.Arminius

--- g_iulius_scaurus <gfr@...> escreveu: > G.
Iulius Scaurus L. Rutilio Minverali salutem

> dicit.
>
> Salve, L. Rutile.
>
> > As a part of the Provinciae Galliae project, I
> need maps (free of
> > rights) of Imperium Romanum and Provinciae. Who
> knows to find such
> > maps ? Thanks in advance...
>
> I think you'll be able to find what you at either
> the DIR map section:
>
> http://www.roman-emperors.org/Index.htm
>
> or the Interactive Ancient Mediterranean Atlas:
>
> http://iam.classics.unc.edu/
>
> Vale.
> G. Iulius Scaurus

_______________________________________________________________________
Conheça o novo Cadê? - Mais rápido, mais fácil e mais preciso.
Toda a web, 42 milhões de páginas brasileiras e nova busca por imagens!
http://www.cade.com.br

Salvete Quirites and Omnes,

We have had plenty of Forum Fights over attempts to
make major changes to Nova Roma, and I'd like to put
them aside for now and concetrate on little things for
a time. The Small details that are being overlooked
during the arguments over major changes.

Is there some little flaw in Nova Roma that's
bothering you? A Bad link on a web Page? A Common
misuse of Latin (something I'm likely guity of). Any
small trivial items that can be easisly mended?

Lets work on a list of small easy to fix items in Nova
Roma, and improve the Res Publica by taking care of
them.

Citizens,
Let's hear your sugestions.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

This is also true of some early Christian sects. There is comparison with Tantric cults of liberation not just through intoxication but also through violating the laws of this world to achieve beyond it. So Tibetan Buddhism inherited a lot of ritual violation practices from Bon shamanism, like meditation in a grave-yard, use of human bones as trumpets etc. It is even there in the beautiful Sufi Kowali (and their Hindu Baul/Sahaj equivalent) tradition of erotic songs symbolic of transcending individuality to unity or awareness of/with Divinity.

-----Original Message-----
From : Carmit Mizrahi <loreley@...>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 01 August 2003 10:35:00
Subject : RE: [Nova-Roma] divine triumph {was (unknown)}
Hello all,

>
>Worship through ecstasy is known throughout all of the ancient world.
>The cult of Dionysus was only one example.
>

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

I will be leaving tomorrow and I will not return until Sunday 10th.
If you need my services as praetor, please contact my colleague
during my absence.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

>
> By the way, this is my first message to the list. My
> name is Carmit (or
> Victoria Durmia Trivia) and I am from Israel. So
> greetings to everyone
>
> Carmit
>
>
>

Greetings, Victoria Durmia Trivia,

I hope that you enjoy being in Nova Roma with us.
I also appreciated your insights on the rights of
Dionysius.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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Salvete Omnibus,

One thing I would personally like to see is more of the materials/
documents/ reading lists of the Academia Thules courses being
accessable as a downloadable set of files available for general
consumption.

I know i've looked in to the Academia and the courses look
interesting, but my schedule is busy (whose isn't?). If I could
simply download the course material and reading lists I could do it
on my own. It would be easier to disseminate to others this way.

I think the intro to the Religio etc. are going to be great classes,
I would just like to do them on my own. I have no need for
instruction with a teacher or quizzes, just the straight skinny on
certain things for my own interest. I'm sure there are several other
folks who would be interested too. Especially with the religio, there
are so many arguements about interpretations of texts: just having a
more defined reading list or some educated reconstructionist views on
it would be helpful.

Anyhow, just a thought.

Valete bene,

Caius Cornelius Varus
Legatus, America Boreoccidentalis

Ex Officio Propraetoris America Boreoccidentalis

Edictum Praetoricium 2756-ix dismissing Prima Ritulia Nocta as Legata of
Regio V and appointing new legata
1.. After attempting to reach Prima Ritulia Nocta by e-mail, by letter, by
phone and by web site, I sadly must conclude she has vanished for good.
Therefore, it is with regret that I release Prima Ritulia Nocta from her
position as Legata, Area V, America Boreoccidentalis.
2.. In order to assure representation for Area V, Regio V—Oregonia
Austroccidentalis, I hereby appoint Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Legata of
Area V.
3.. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
Given under my hand Kal. Sextilis MMDCCLVI A.U.C. in the consulship of Caeso
Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus.

Ex Officio
Julilla Sempronia Magna
Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Luci Sicini,

Thanks for making this post. Here is a list of my suggestions. I'll keep myself confined to the main page for now.

I hope that other people might jump in on this topic and post other suggestions or comments to my remarks.

First, the link "Latino" to the Latin version sounds really strange to me. If you want to say "Latin", "Lingua Latina" would be good. My dictionary suggested "Latine" (adverb) for the term "in Latin". In any case, while it may not be clear what the correct term might be (at least not to me, there are better latinists out there than me), I would dismiss Latino as a wrong term.

Then a few remarks at first glance for the Latin translation:

* The words "site search" and "advanced search" have not been translated
* "de provincis" is wrong and should be "de provinciis"
* "rites and rituals" have not been translated
* "observantia festivaliorum"?? this sounds very awkward.
* The attempt to translate "FAQ" is brave but there is certainly an <e> too much in the word "que<e>stiones"
* "interactive calendar" has not been translated
* "for new citizens" has not been translated (suggestion: "novis civibus")
* "literatura" sounds really awkward ("litterae" might be better)
* "Roman names" has not been translated (suggestion: "nomina Romana")
* I think "annalia" is incorrect and should be "annales"
* "online universitas" is terrible; I don't know the word for "online" but it's certainly not that one; also, to translate "university" words like "academia", "athenaeum" or "lyceum" would be better.
* The last two paragraphs of the introductory text haven't been translated

I'll come up with more or might also send "reports" to my superior, consul Fortunatus. After all, he hired me as his scriba :p.

Vale bene!
Draco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Lets work on a list of small easy to fix items in Nova
> Roma, and improve the Res Publica by taking care of
> them.
>
> Citizens,
> Let's hear your sugestions.

Well there is the not so splashy "splash page." Besides being
visually boring (if not down right ugly), there is the "..Gods of
Olympus calling..." thing. Maybe I'm just being anal retentive (hmmm
does that need a hyphen?) but Olympus was the home of the Greek
dieties, not the Roman....

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

I can not recall if it were here in NR land or another R site but a recent
post listed the web site for a travel agency that their forte is archeological
digs including the Roman Empire. Anyone remember the address? Thanks, Caecilia
Drusa Dalmatica

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

An interesting initiative, Senator. I hope it doesn't
result in our Web Curator getting overloaded with
suggestions!

Cassius Calvus mentioned the 'not so splashy "splash
page."' Before I start agreeing, I have to admit I'd
be hard pressed to sum up NR in an image and a few
sound-bites in a way that would attract people. But I
think there's room for improvement:

The reference to family values is the bit that bothers
me slightly. First of all, it's a cultural reference
which is quite specific to North American social and
political language. Certainly no one in Britain talks
about 'family values', and I'd frankly be surprised to
hear that phrase anywhere outside the US. So it makes
the site seem US-specific and might put off people
from other countries.

Secondly, it implies an incompatibility between Roman
virtues and 'family values', which is pretty
misleading since the family was probably *more*
important to Roman society and to Roman moral
philosophy than it is in many modern cultures. Again,
a danger of putting off people we want, perhaps.

The other two snippets don't bother me, though I see
Calvus' point about Olympus.

On a completely different note, it might be worth
having some discussion about names and the protocols
for using them. I'm not an expert, but my
understanding is that when Romans referred to one
another or addressed one another by only one name,
they almost invariably used the cognomen (the third
one), unless the person didn't have one. That's the
practice I try to follow anyway.

Then, more confusingly, there's what to do when using
two names. What I've heard is that in the early and
middle republic the standard form was to use a
person's praenomen and nomen if they were noble and
their praenomen and cognomen if they weren't. In the
later republic the practice evolved of calling people
by their nomen and cognomen, whether noble or not.
Personally I prefer the more egalitarian late
practice, but I can understand why purists would avoid
it. Only then what do you do, assume everyone's a
noble?

And one last thing about names. Did the Romans ever
abbreviate names other than praenomina to intials?
Would they have understood that M.M.A. means Marcus
Minucius Audens, or would they have assumed it meant
Marcus Marcus Aulus? I've always assumed that they
wouldn't use initials except the standard ones for
praenomina:

M. Marcus
M' Manius
Q. Quintus
Sex. Sextus
P. Publius
Ser. Servius
Sp. Spurius
C. Gaius
Cn. Gnaeus
A. Aulus
D. Decimus
K. Caeso
L. Lucius
Ti. Tiberius
T. Titus

... have I missed any? And how should we abbreviate
praenomina which didn't exist in those days? I've no
idea - I just don't abbreviate them at all.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

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Salvte,

I'm inclined to agree that the NR site splash page could use a facelift.
Nothing fancy perhaps, but just more in line with the "look" of the actual
website. Perhaps also place a relevant Roman quotation on the page as well.
Some possibilities:

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Omnium rerum principia parva sunt.
"Everything has a small beginning." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque.

"On ancient ways and heroes stands the Roman state." -Quintus Ennius

I'm sure more literary minded citizens can suggest some even better ones :)

Also at one point when the NR website was redesigned, the link to the site
map vanished from the main page. There are a few areas in the site that are
difficult to navigate to unless you know exactly where you're going. Bring
back an easily accessible site index, and perhaps look into improving the
site navigation over all.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Minucius Hadrianus"
<hadrianus@3...> wrote:

>

<snipped>

>
> Also at one point when the NR website was redesigned, the link to

the site map vanished from the main page. There are a few areas in
the site that are difficult to navigate to unless you know exactly
where you're going. Bring back an easily accessible site index, and
perhaps look into improving the site navigation over all.


That at least was easily done, and I added a link to the master index
on both the English and German main pages.

You know, actually, the curator and scribae spent quite a lot of time
discussing redesigns, and some of us worked up several designs, but
the site is so large that, as a practical matter, it's going to be a
real labour of Hercules to do a complete redesign, not that I'm not
eager to do it, if I had the time and could do whatever I wished with
the site ;-)

I believe, at the present time, our Curator is on his way to the Nova
Roma Rally, but perhaps I and some of the other scribae can peck away
at some of these excellent suggestions, missing links and niggling
peculiarities.

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/

Bravo! If anything, I think that it should probably remembered that people have been complaining about "family values" for as far back as anyone can remember. I'm certain that they thought that family values would be ruined when Romulus was measuring out the positions of his new fangled wall. These sorts of things do not signify... they are brought up in every generation.
Once again, I have to agree with your assessment. "Family values" must certainly have been of greater weight in Roman society.... and much more easy to enforce if you remember the power of the pater familias over his family.

L. Licinius Murena

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

An interesting initiative, Senator. I hope it doesn't
result in our Web Curator getting overloaded with
suggestions!

Cassius Calvus mentioned the 'not so splashy "splash
page."' Before I start agreeing, I have to admit I'd
be hard pressed to sum up NR in an image and a few
sound-bites in a way that would attract people. But I
think there's room for improvement:

The reference to family values is the bit that bothers
me slightly. First of all, it's a cultural reference
which is quite specific to North American social and
political language. Certainly no one in Britain talks
about 'family values', and I'd frankly be surprised to
hear that phrase anywhere outside the US. So it makes
the site seem US-specific and might put off people
from other countries.

Secondly, it implies an incompatibility between Roman
virtues and 'family values', which is pretty
misleading since the family was probably *more*
important to Roman society and to Roman moral
philosophy than it is in many modern cultures. Again,
a danger of putting off people we want, perhaps.

The other two snippets don't bother me, though I see
Calvus' point about Olympus.

On a completely different note, it might be worth
having some discussion about names and the protocols
for using them. I'm not an expert, but my
understanding is that when Romans referred to one
another or addressed one another by only one name,
they almost invariably used the cognomen (the third
one), unless the person didn't have one. That's the
practice I try to follow anyway.

Then, more confusingly, there's what to do when using
two names. What I've heard is that in the early and
middle republic the standard form was to use a
person's praenomen and nomen if they were noble and
their praenomen and cognomen if they weren't. In the
later republic the practice evolved of calling people
by their nomen and cognomen, whether noble or not.
Personally I prefer the more egalitarian late
practice, but I can understand why purists would avoid
it. Only then what do you do, assume everyone's a
noble?

And one last thing about names. Did the Romans ever
abbreviate names other than praenomina to intials?
Would they have understood that M.M.A. means Marcus
Minucius Audens, or would they have assumed it meant
Marcus Marcus Aulus? I've always assumed that they
wouldn't use initials except the standard ones for
praenomina:

M. Marcus
M' Manius
Q. Quintus
Sex. Sextus
P. Publius
Ser. Servius
Sp. Spurius
C. Gaius
Cn. Gnaeus
A. Aulus
D. Decimus
K. Caeso
L. Lucius
Ti. Tiberius
T. Titus

... have I missed any? And how should we abbreviate
praenomina which didn't exist in those days? I've no
idea - I just don't abbreviate them at all.

Cordus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
Are they any NR forums at Delphi Forums(either Official or
Unofficial)? I just ran across Delphi while checking a Stargate
SG-1 site. Here is the URL if anybody is interested:

http://forums.delphiforums.com

Vale,

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

AIM: Walhalla47

Sp. Postumius A. Apollonio Cordo S.P.D.

Salve,

> An interesting initiative, Senator. I hope it doesn't
> result in our Web Curator getting overloaded with
> suggestions!

Well, he does have scribes. I'm sure that whatever is proposed, if it is followed through, we can get it done, somehow.

[...]

> On a completely different note, it might be worth
> having some discussion about names and the protocols
> for using them. I'm not an expert, but my
> understanding is that when Romans referred to one
> another or addressed one another by only one name,
> they almost invariably used the cognomen (the third
> one), unless the person didn't have one. That's the
> practice I try to follow anyway.
>
> Then, more confusingly, there's what to do when using
> two names. What I've heard is that in the early and
> middle republic the standard form was to use a
> person's praenomen and nomen if they were noble and
> their praenomen and cognomen if they weren't. In the
> later republic the practice evolved of calling people
> by their nomen and cognomen, whether noble or not.
> Personally I prefer the more egalitarian late
> practice, but I can understand why purists would avoid
> it. Only then what do you do, assume everyone's a
> noble?

Honestly, I really don't think it matters. I generally refer to people by Cognomen or Praenomen and Nomen, however in this forum, I've come to see that most people have a name they prefer or are well known by. For instance, Censor M. Octavius Germanicus is commonly referred to only by Nomen, or by Nomen and Cognomen. Similarly for M. Cassius myself. Whereas others are mainly known by Praenomen and Nomen, or Praenomen and Cognomen, or simply Cognomen. Senator Audens is commonly referred to only by Cognomen, similarly for Senator Drusus, and others. So I think it is a matter of how one presents oneself by name in the forum.

> And one last thing about names. Did the Romans ever
> abbreviate names other than praenomina to intials?
> Would they have understood that M.M.A. means Marcus
> Minucius Audens, or would they have assumed it meant
> Marcus Marcus Aulus? I've always assumed that they
> wouldn't use initials except the standard ones for
> praenomina:
>
> M. Marcus
> M' Manius
> Q. Quintus
> Sex. Sextus
> P. Publius
> Ser. Servius
> Sp. Spurius
> C. Gaius
> Cn. Gnaeus
> A. Aulus
> D. Decimus
> K. Caeso
> L. Lucius
> Ti. Tiberius
> T. Titus
>
> ... have I missed any? And how should we abbreviate
> praenomina which didn't exist in those days? I've no
> idea - I just don't abbreviate them at all.

To add:

Ap. Appius
Mam. Mamercus
N. Numerius
Opit. Opiter
Pro. Proculus (rare)
Post. Postumus
V. Vibius

For the ones which weren't in use, I've tried to use something very readily recognizable, while keeping it an abbreviation. For instance, in the Tabularium you will see where I use "Fl." for Flavius, "Cl." for Claudius, and "Am." for Amulius.

I also think there is another question. For feminine names, should we use the masculine abbreviation for something which is feminine? I say yes. For instance, again, were one to have the name "Lucia Vipsania," I would abbreviate that as simply "L. Vipsania." Would we mark this as accepted or not?

So much for that part of the little things.

Vale,

Sp. Tubertus (not a nobleman)

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Roman Ceramics":

http://www2.rgzm.de/anadecom/newhome.htm

This site, maintained by the Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum, is an
extraordinary resource on Samian ware from Banassac in Gallia in the
early 2nd century CE, mainly found distributed in Southern Germany,
Switzerland, Austria and Hungary. The site replete with research
papers, bibliographies, images, and archeometric data. The site is a
little slow when viewd via dial modem, but well worth the wait.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Sp. Postumius Quiritibus sal.

Salvete,

To hit on more of the little things which nag at me from time to time, I think it would be good to fix some of the titles of our magistrates to make them more grammatically correct. Nothing that takes a big overhaul (a constitutional amendment, yes, but not something which shouldn't get unanimousity).

First, if I am correct, the title 'Curator Araneum' comes from using curator (caretaker) and araneum (web). Because this person is to be the caretaker of the web, I think it would be more fitting to have this person be the 'Curator Aranei' (Curator of the Web[site]). Am I correct?

For another minor thing, being one myself, shouldn't retiarii (provincial webmasters) be permitted to have the century points of a scribe? As far as I can see, they are appointed as scribes. Could we not simply have a senatus consultum equating retiarii with provincial scribae?

For now, it seems this is all I have to complain about, but I'm sure I'll have some major things to criticize soon. Whenever someone opens the forum for that, I'll lie those out as well.

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

"Nam nemo sine vitiis nascitur; optimus ille est qui minima habet." -- Q. Horatius Flaccus

Salve

How about adding this quote to the website


"Our Republic is not the work of genius of one man alone, but of many.

It was not created during the life span of one individual, but build up throughout the centuries ."

Cato , in Cicero De Republic 2.2


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: C. Minucius Hadrianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] The Little Things




Salvte,

I'm inclined to agree that the NR site splash page could use a facelift.
Nothing fancy perhaps, but just more in line with the "look" of the actual
website. Perhaps also place a relevant Roman quotation on the page as well.
Some possibilities:

Patria est communis omnium parens.
"Our native land is the common parent of us all." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Omnium rerum principia parva sunt.
"Everything has a small beginning." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque.

"On ancient ways and heroes stands the Roman state." -Quintus Ennius

I'm sure more literary minded citizens can suggest some even better ones :)

Also at one point when the NR website was redesigned, the link to the site
map vanished from the main page. There are a few areas in the site that are
difficult to navigate to unless you know exactly where you're going. Bring
back an easily accessible site index, and perhaps look into improving the
site navigation over all.






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
SNIP

>
> The reference to family values is the bit that
> bothers
> me slightly. First of all, it's a cultural reference
> which is quite specific to North American social and
> political language. Certainly no one in Britain
> talks
> about 'family values', and I'd frankly be surprised
> to
> hear that phrase anywhere outside the US. So it
> makes
> the site seem US-specific and might put off people
> from other countries.
>
> Secondly, it implies an incompatibility between
> Roman
> virtues and 'family values', which is pretty
> misleading since the family was probably *more*
> important to Roman society and to Roman moral
> philosophy than it is in many modern cultures.
> Again,
> a danger of putting off people we want, perhaps.

The "family values" statement is more than just a
cultural reference, it's a USA political statement, in
the 1990s US Conservatives were attempting to promote
laws friendly to the family. Predictibly the Political
Christans butted in with some crap that went too far,
but all in all promoting the family is a good idea.

I Don't think we should be getting involved in
Macronational politics unless it's in an area that
directly impacts Nova Roma, ie a law that
discriminates against the Religio. That statement
needs to go if we retain the very unpopular splash
page.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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There is a new Windows virus out that takes advanatge
of yet another security hole in Windows.

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.mimail.a@...

I have allready gotten two of them sent to me.

Since this is a new virus your anti-virus software
will not pick it up unless it has been updated in the
past few hours.

It looks like a e-mail from your system administrator
warning you that your email address is about to
expire, and instructing you to open the inclosed
attachment message.zip

Knowing the way virus writters operate there will
probelly be some variations of the message and the
file name within a day or two at the longest.

Be careful what you open.




=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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Salve Caiis Cornelius,

>I think the intro to the Religio etc. are going to be great classes,
>I would just like to do them on my own. I have no need for
>instruction with a teacher or quizzes, just the straight skinny on
>certain things for my own interest. I'm sure there are several other
>folks who would be interested too. Especially with the religio, there
>are so many arguements about interpretations of texts: just having a
>more defined reading list or some educated reconstructionist views on
>it would be helpful.

I think that the Religio course has been listed there for about a year but
has never been given. Don't quote me on that, but I am pretty sure...
(Anyone else can feel free to jump in and correct me if I am wrong). My
memory is always a bit fuzzy, but I think I very enthusiastically signed up
for it last year and then never heard anything. The plan was that it would
be a very basic course and not delve too deeply into things, but I would
also be interested in getting the course materials so I could read it.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salvete:

There are more things but as of now only these come to mind:

1- An orientation section for new citizens. Moravia Aventina brought it
up earlier on.

2- A virtual library: Now, most of what is in the main list is just bla
bla, but there are those who post very well thought out messages that should
be classified and kept for reference in a virtual library. it is really a
shame to have to lose that. Again, the library idea was brought up already
in the list only a few days ago, but here I should really give credit to my
superior Aedilis Arminius Faustus, to whom I am a scribe, who brought up the
idea in private quite a time ago.

3- The Gods: I was doing research on the Gods sometime ago, and I
clicked the NR website. Some Gods are listed but not all, and that is it.
It doesn't say anything about them. I suggest a whole page for each God, or
as some would say a virtual temple.

4- Links with easier accessibility. Again, somebody already mentioned
that.

5- And I agree with Cordus. The issue of how people address each other
is important, and the issue of name should be addressed.

Valete

Gaius Galerius Peregrinator

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Salve, Omnes!
I was wondering if there is a place in Nova Roma where we might speak
only in Latin or learn together?
Gratias!
~Antonina Flaccus Laelia

Salvete Spuri Postume et omnes,

> For another minor thing, being one myself, shouldn't
> retiarii (provincial webmasters) be permitted to
> have the century points of a scribe? As far as I can
> see, they are appointed as scribes. Could we not
> simply have a senatus consultum equating retiarii
> with provincial scribae?

Governors can simply appoint their provincial
webmasters as scribae. They can then receive century
points for their hard work. What the scribe then gets
called is anyones business :-)

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus

__________________________________________________
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Salvete Aule Apolloni et omnes,

> The reference to family values is the bit that
> bothers me slightly.

I agree. This certainly made me cringe when I first
saw the Nova Roma website and certainly made me
hesitate before joining.

> Certainly no one in Britain talks
> about 'family values',

Didn't John Major try once? He didn't last too long
:-)

> On a completely different note, it might be worth
> having some discussion about names and the protocols
> for using them.

I have a comment to make here too, not so much in the
realm of greetings but more related to signing off
ones post. When I post a message to a public formal
forum I personally think it bad manners to sign off
with anything other than my full name. It is
presumptuous to do otherwise. I have no patent on the
names Decimus, Iunius or Silanus thus I sign off with
all three. Besides being poor form, it's also
confusing for our newer citizens.

Trimming ones name in private posts or on informal
lists like the scurrilous Back Alley is fine, but not
for more formal lists such as this.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus



__________________________________________________
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Salve Gnae Dionyse,

> Thanks for making this post. Here is a list of my
> suggestions. <snipped>

Although I yearn to be otherwise, I am unfortnately no
latinist. However, I applaud wholeheartedly your
efforts to improve the latin on our website...the
gateway to Nova Roma. My hat, should it be on, is off
to you.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
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--- Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@...>
wrote:
Snip

>
> I have a comment to make here too, not so much in
> the
> realm of greetings but more related to signing off
> ones post. When I post a message to a public formal
> forum I personally think it bad manners to sign off
> with anything other than my full name. It is
> presumptuous to do otherwise. I have no patent on
> the
> names Decimus, Iunius or Silanus thus I sign off
> with
> all three. Besides being poor form, it's also
> confusing for our newer citizens.
>
> Trimming ones name in private posts or on informal
> lists like the scurrilous Back Alley is fine, but
> not
> for more formal lists such as this.
>
> Valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
>

I do use the common abreveation for Lucius in my
signiture which is in keeping with Roman traditions,
Otherwise I agree on this. There is another problem
with signitures however, including offical titles in
private comments. I do wish people who are giving
thier private view would refrain from this and save
the title for the times they are speaking on behalf of
Nova Roma rather than stating thier private opinion.
This is why the majority of my posts are signed "Roman
Citizen" rather than "Senator", so there is no doubt
when I speaking on my own behalf rather than as an
offical.



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Salvete,

I agree with the names suggestion as well. I sign off using my full
name, but am usually responded to by only my Gens name, Octavia.
Personally, I would prefer Annia Octavia, or Annia O. (Oct.) or
whatever other abbreviation is appropriate. However, I'm never sure
what other people like to be called, so perhaps some common
convention would be helpful to more than just me.

Valete,

Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Aule Apolloni et omnes,
>
> > The reference to family values is the bit that
> > bothers me slightly.
>
> I agree. This certainly made me cringe when I first
> saw the Nova Roma website and certainly made me
> hesitate before joining.
>
> > Certainly no one in Britain talks
> > about 'family values',
>
> Didn't John Major try once? He didn't last too long
> :-)
>
> > On a completely different note, it might be worth
> > having some discussion about names and the protocols
> > for using them.
>
> I have a comment to make here too, not so much in the
> realm of greetings but more related to signing off
> ones post. When I post a message to a public formal
> forum I personally think it bad manners to sign off
> with anything other than my full name. It is
> presumptuous to do otherwise. I have no patent on the
> names Decimus, Iunius or Silanus thus I sign off with
> all three. Besides being poor form, it's also
> confusing for our newer citizens.
>
> Trimming ones name in private posts or on informal
> lists like the scurrilous Back Alley is fine, but not
> for more formal lists such as this.
>
> Valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html

Salvete,

I agree with L. Sicinius Drusus on this one. I have noticed a few
times that it is used when in one of the verbal battles here and
might be considered 'throwing it out to measure'.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>>
> I do use the common abreveation for Lucius in my
> signiture which is in keeping with Roman traditions,
> Otherwise I agree on this. There is another problem
> with signitures however, including offical titles in
> private comments. I do wish people who are giving
> thier private view would refrain from this and save
> the title for the times they are speaking on behalf of
> Nova Roma rather than stating thier private opinion.
> This is why the majority of my posts are signed "Roman
> Citizen" rather than "Senator", so there is no doubt
> when I speaking on my own behalf rather than as an
> offical.
>
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Salve!

< There is another problem

>with signitures however, including offical titles in
>private comments.

Besides what you said above Drusus, I find that listing all of one's titles,
websites, slogans, etc. is a little bit like putting oneself too high a
pedestal, especially when the titles have nothing to do with on's posting. I
feel like it is a shout of 'Look at all my titles. You have to take my
opinion verrrrry seriously because I am important!" Pudicita and clementia
(modesty & gentleness if I am using the correct Roman virtues) goes a long
way. An opinion is just as important if coming from a new, titleless
citizen...

But the above is just my opinion and it has not been written in stone in any
rulebook as far as I know!

Vale,
Diana Moravia

A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Galerius Peregrinator and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> 2- A virtual library: Now, most of what is in
> the main list is just bla
> bla, but there are those who post very well thought
> out messages that should
> be classified and kept for reference in a virtual
> library. it is really a
> shame to have to lose that.

I think there is already the nucleus of a library on
the website, in the Camenaeum. At present most of the
links go to outside resources, but there are quite a
few of them, and more could probably be added.

I'd suggest that rather than making the Web Curator
and his assistants responsible for seeking out matter
for the library (a large workload, and rather
subjective), it should be up to individuals to submit
their work for inclusion. Perhaps some guidelines for
acceptance could be embodied in a senatusconsultum, or
just worked out by the Curator.

This would be a good way to display citizens' talents:
there's already a witty Gilbert & Sullivan spoof by
the Cassii there under 'Thalia (Comedy)', and Curius
Saturninus' detective story might find a home there
too, if he wanted to submit it, as well as non-fiction
essays by those learned in history, religion &c. Of
course there may well be bandwidth limitations to
consider here, but it's an appealing idea.

Cordus

=====
www.collapsibletheatre.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
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Salve Antonia,

Antonia Flaccus Laelia writes:

> I was wondering if there is a place in Nova Roma where we might speak
> only in Latin or learn together?

The Latinitas mailing list, while not Latin-only, is a place that
encourages people to post in Latin and where other Latinists will
be able to reply to you. You can subscribe by sending a blank
e-mail to:

Latinitas-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Vale,

-- Marinus

A. Apollonius Cordus to Sp. Postumius Tubertus, D.
Iunius Silanus, Senator L. Sinicius Drusus, Tribune
Diana Moravia Aventina and all citizens and
peregrines, greetings.

First of all, thanks to Tubertus for the abbreviations
I missed out. I agree that there's no desparate need
for a fixed policy on which names to use, especially
since Roman practice was almost as varied as ours. As
long as one successfully identifies the person one
means, it doesn't matter much.

Iunius Silanus wrote:

> I have a comment to make here too, not so much in
> the
> realm of greetings but more related to signing off
> ones post. When I post a message to a public
> formal
> forum I personally think it bad manners to sign
> off
> with anything other than my full name. It is
> presumptuous to do otherwise. I have no patent on
> the
> names Decimus, Iunius or Silanus thus I sign off
> with
> all three. Besides being poor form, it's also
> confusing for our newer citizens.

I feel I should respond, being guilty of this practice
myself. It's difficult to know how to sign one's
messages: Roman practice was to put an address at the
opening of a letter, but ending a message without
signing it feels strange. I use the opening greeting,
both because it has a Roman flavour and because it's
quite useful to know who's writing and to whom before
you start reading. But I don't quite have the nerve to
break off abrubtly at the end, so I add my cognomen to
remind people who they've been listening to (I can
imagine some might have forgotten, given the length).

But now you mention it, I can see that a cognomen
alone may seem too casual. I'll experiment with
leaving nothing at the end, and see how that feels.

Sinicius Drusus and Moravia Aventina mentioned the
appendage of titles to signatures. I'm ambivalent
about this. On the one hand, it does have an air of
rank-pulling, especially when ending a sententious
message. On the other, though, it is perfectly Roman
behaviour. Roman public life was very competetive, and
people sought, gained and used every title and honour
they could. Listing one's titles in one's signature is
pretty similar to wearing the broad stripe, the
senatorial ring or other marks of distinction. No
Roman entitled to wear the broad stripe would have
gone to the Forum without it, unless he were in
disguise.

'Modesty' in the sense of playing down one's
achievements is an innovation of the Christian age.
Pudicitia was the virtue of being ashamed of shameful
things, not of hiding things which should be sources
of pride. Pride, likewise, was not a deadly sin to the
Romans but a virtue, provided it was deserved; and I'm
sure we'd agree that a magistracy or a Senate seat are
worth being proud of. So I don't think anyone need
hesitate to claim for themselves any titles to which
they are entitled, and the respect that goes with
them. That's not to say that someone with fewer titles
is less worth listening to, and I don't think there's
anyone who means to imply that when they list their
titles.

As for the question of personal opinions as against
official pronouncements, again I can't fully agree.
Roman magistrates didn't meticulously distinguish
between personality and policy, and neither did the
voters. An immoral private life was good reason for
removal from the Senate, for example. Magistrates
don't have on-duty and off-duty periods, and a
magistrate is just as much a magistrate when he says
'I didn't enjoy Naevius' latest play' as when he says
'I think we should attack the Gauls'.

Obviously it's important to make it clear what is an
edict and what is not, because edicts have legal force
and opinions haven't. But is this the only time people
are to be allowed to use their titles? Is 'I didn't
enjoy Naevius' latest play, signed Scipio Africanus
Consul' any different from 'I did't enjoy Naevius'
latest play, signed Scipio Africanus'? Either way he's
consul, and either way he didn't like the play. I
don't see the benefit in trying to create a fiction
that Africanus Consul is a different person from
Africanus Privatus.

=====
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________________________________________________________________________
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--- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
Snip

>
> Sinicius Drusus and Moravia Aventina mentioned the
> appendage of titles to signatures. I'm ambivalent
> about this. On the one hand, it does have an air of
> rank-pulling, especially when ending a sententious
> message. On the other, though, it is perfectly Roman
> behaviour. Roman public life was very competetive,
> and
> people sought, gained and used every title and
> honour
> they could. Listing one's titles in one's signature
> is
> pretty similar to wearing the broad stripe, the
> senatorial ring or other marks of distinction. No
> Roman entitled to wear the broad stripe would have
> gone to the Forum without it, unless he were in
> disguise.
>

There is a very valid reason to refrain from it. USA
courts view private comments by officals that use
tittles or offical organizational letterheads as
evidence that it is an organizational viewpoint.
Because of this many US organizations have regulations
that ban thier members from using titles or
organizational letterheads when making private
comments. It is also common to require that e-mail
sent with an organizational account contain the
disclaimer "the views expressed are my own, and not
those of the organization"


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

All right, nobody seems to have been particularly happy with the
entrance to our site for some time, and as one of the scriba to the
Curator Araneum, I've been throwing around ideas for about a year and
a half or so.

I don't think it's appropriate for me to just go ahead and change the
entrance myself (though I generally am tempted to ask for forgiveness
instead of permission in many cases) but I have taken the liberty, in
this case, of throwing a simple splash page into a subdirectory so
everyone can see it. Perhaps this will spark ideas! Keep in mind that
the links don't function.

http://www.novaroma.org/splash/

Julilla Sempronia Magna
Scriba, Curator Araneum

Salve

Nova Roma needs a Librarian , a new Curator if you will so as to improve on what we have.

The person would have to have knowledge of the web/computers and Roman history, culture etc.

This would keep the workload of the "Virtual Library" from overwhelming the webmaster as he already has enough to do.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Little Things - Library


A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Galerius Peregrinator and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> 2- A virtual library: Now, most of what is in
> the main list is just bla
> bla, but there are those who post very well thought
> out messages that should
> be classified and kept for reference in a virtual
> library. it is really a
> shame to have to lose that.

I think there is already the nucleus of a library on
the website, in the Camenaeum. At present most of the
links go to outside resources, but there are quite a
few of them, and more could probably be added.

I'd suggest that rather than making the Web Curator
and his assistants responsible for seeking out matter
for the library (a large workload, and rather
subjective), it should be up to individuals to submit
their work for inclusion. Perhaps some guidelines for
acceptance could be embodied in a senatusconsultum, or
just worked out by the Curator.

This would be a good way to display citizens' talents:
there's already a witty Gilbert & Sullivan spoof by
the Cassii there under 'Thalia (Comedy)', and Curius
Saturninus' detective story might find a home there
too, if he wanted to submit it, as well as non-fiction
essays by those learned in history, religion &c. Of
course there may well be bandwidth limitations to
consider here, but it's an appealing idea.

Cordus

=====
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
Oh that is a lot better!

Since you asked for sugestions,

Looking at the source,
Some Meta tags in the Header would help.

meta name="description" content=" Dedicated to the
restoration of Classical Roman religion, culture, and
virtues"

meta name="keywords" content="keyword, keyword, etc"

These tags are used by search engine spiders, and will
help insure that the splash page shows up in searchs
that use the keywords.

meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1"

This tag will be used by the webbrowser to insure the
page uses the intended charset if the user hasn't
overriden it in his prefs. It gives you more control
over what the page will look like.

Of course all these tags should be inclosed in "<>" I
left those out to insure they would be visible in html
based mail programs.

Instead of " Dedicated to the restoration of Classical
Roman religion, culture, and virtues" which is
repeated on the main page use two of the old lines
substituting "Roma" for "Olympus".

Because ancient Rome stands as the bedrock of western
civilization...

Because the Gods of Roma are calling...

Many sites that have language choice menus include
national flag graphics with the language choices, ie
UK flag for English (more common than USA flag),
Italian flag for Italian etc. The Nova Roman flag
could be used for Latin.

The graphic should includ the language choice name
directly below it, and both should be a link.

This gives the page an international look to the
modern eye which is exactly the message we want.


--- Julilla Sempronia Magna
<curatrix@...> wrote:

> All right, nobody seems to have been particularly
> happy with the
> entrance to our site for some time, and as one of
> the scriba to the
> Curator Araneum, I've been throwing around ideas for
> about a year and
> a half or so.
>
> I don't think it's appropriate for me to just go
> ahead and change the
> entrance myself (though I generally am tempted to
> ask for forgiveness
> instead of permission in many cases) but I have
> taken the liberty, in
> this case, of throwing a simple splash page into a
> subdirectory so
> everyone can see it. Perhaps this will spark ideas!
> Keep in mind that
> the links don't function.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/splash/
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna
> Scriba, Curator Araneum
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
> Oh that is a lot better!
>
> Since you asked for sugestions,

Gratias! Excellent proofreading, just what we web designers need!

JSM

--- Julilla Sempronia Magna
<curatrix@...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius
> Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> > Oh that is a lot better!
> >
> > Since you asked for sugestions,
>
> Gratias! Excellent proofreading, just what we web
> designers need!
>
> JSM
>

Oh one other thing I forgot in the post. I allways
include a remark line just after the Doc type
statement that has a copyright notice, ie Copyright
(C) 2003 Nova Roma Inc. All Rights Reserved.



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

-----Original Message-----
From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@...>
Date : 02 August 2003 06:01:54

>
>I Don't think we should be getting involved in
>Macronational politics unless it's in an area that
>directly impacts Nova Roma, ie a law that
>discriminates against the Religio. That statement
>needs to go if we retain the very unpopular splash
>page.
>

Agreed. 'Family Values' is as discreditted as the Flintstones 'gay old time'. One sight of it invokes associations with an interpretation particular to the Christian Right. I don't think there's any question that that was the intention behind using such a useful phrase: only their values count as 'real' family. The Roman family is closer to a clan system considering that it would include servants and possibly clients as well. But Clannish isn't an advisable word either!

Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : starsolis <Starsolis@...>
Date : 02 August 2003 07:19:20

Salve, Omnes!

>I was wondering if there is a place in Nova Roma where we might speak
>only in Latin or learn together?
>Gratias!
>~Antonina Flaccus Laelia
>

There is Yahoo Latinitas, I think. As might be imagined, it tends to be very quiet! So many people can't necessarily reply off the top of their head and may not have a dictionary to hand at the time.

Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

<snipped>

> Oh one other thing I forgot in the post. I allways
> include a remark line just after the Doc type
> statement that has a copyright notice, ie Copyright
> (C) 2003 Nova Roma Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>

Righto. With suggestions and meta tags:

http://www.novaroma.org/splash/

I particularly like the flag idea, myself!

JSM

-----Original Message-----
From : =?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@...>
Date : 02 August 2003 09:10:54

Salve Gnae Dionyse,

>
>Although I yearn to be otherwise, I am unfortnately no
>latinist. However, I applaud wholeheartedly your
>efforts to improve the latin on our website...the
>gateway to Nova Roma. My hat, should it be on, is off
>to you.
>

I was hoping the Vatican might have something on-line but a quick search has revealed only references to their new massive printed dictionary such as:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/horoscopes/5851994.htm
(I thought I'd copied the address bar correctly. Horoscopes?)

The two volumes contain some 15,000 modernized Latin words - many of them compounds of existing Latin words. Dishwasher is "escariorum lavator" and disco is "orbium phonographicorum theca."

The question arises too as to which Latin, Classical or Vulgar? There were certainly words like Mesmus for same that don't appear in Classical and the difference could have been as great as Kathereuousa and Demotike Greek (or spoken & written English/French!). That need not be a disadvatage to actually using Latin because it allows semi-mediaeval forms all Ad and De for newcomers and circumlocutions for some of syntax while retaining the formal language for reading so they can get by needing only vocabulary. Which in Latin's case is small anyway.

Caesariensis

I have often maintained that a human, taken alone, is no human at all; only as a member of a reasoning group can a person be completely human - Konrad Lorenz, Abbau des Menschlichen (The Waning of Humaneness) 1987.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : aoctaviaindagatrix <bryanta003@...>
Date : 02 August 2003 09:22:00

Salvete,

>
> I agree with the names suggestion as well. I sign off using my full
>name, but am usually responded to by only my Gens name, Octavia.
>Personally, I would prefer Annia Octavia, or Annia O. (Oct.) or
>whatever other abbreviation is appropriate. However, I'm never sure
>what other people like to be called, so perhaps some common
>convention would be helpful to more than just me.
>

Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric for a woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was superstition behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power over you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/ that Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one time names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina like mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though I would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it just looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
We don't seem to have an emormous amount of formal correspondance. There's informal so obviously using familiar names and there's publication but letters of "iii ante K. inst., this is your thrid reminder to pay for the water connection or it will be blocked off" and replies seem thin on the ground. When it comes to more archaic culture, it seems the citizens of Nineveh and Ur had little else to carve on their bricks than bills of lading and letters of credit.

Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis

I have often maintained that a human, taken alone, is no human at all; only as a member of a reasoning group can a person be completely human - Konrad Lorenz, Abbau des Menschlichen (The Waning of Humaneness) 1987.



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : aoctaviaindagatrix <bryanta003@...>
Date : 02 August 2003 09:22:00

Salvete,

>
> I agree with the names suggestion as well. I sign off using my full
>name, but am usually responded to by only my Gens name, Octavia.
>Personally, I would prefer Annia Octavia, or Annia O. (Oct.) or
>whatever other abbreviation is appropriate. However, I'm never sure
>what other people like to be called, so perhaps some common
>convention would be helpful to more than just me.
>

Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric for a woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was superstition behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power over you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/ that Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one time names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina like mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though I would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it just looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
We don't seem to have an emormous amount of formal correspondance. There's informal so obviously using familiar names and there's publication but letters of "iii ante K. inst., this is your thrid reminder to pay for the water connection or it will be blocked off" and replies seem thin on the ground. When it comes to more archaic culture, it seems the citizens of Nineveh and Ur had little else to carve on their bricks than bills of lading and letters of credit.

Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis

I have often maintained that a human, taken alone, is no human at all; only as a member of a reasoning group can a person be completely human - Konrad Lorenz, Abbau des Menschlichen (The Waning of Humaneness) 1987.



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Actually, I got Annia from the Nova Roma list of female names in
the names guideline. So if it isn't common, and I'll admit I'd not
heard it, it was at least on that list as appropriate. There are more
than a half dozen Annia listings, mostly combined with a Faustina.
Anna, from my understanding of it, is a derivative of Hannah, a
jewish name that evolved into Anna during the Christian era. So I
wouldn't expect Anna to be a common Roman name either, but rather
Hannah since republican rome was pre-Christian. And again, I would
expect Hannah to be common only to Romans of the Jewish religion. I
could easily be wrong, however, so maybe someone else can pipe in if
I am.
I don't know about the superstition part. Since the full three
names for men were common knowledge, I wouldn't know why it wouldn't
be the same for women, except that they had only 2 names commonly
during, for the most part, the republican era.

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
<SNIP>
> Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric for a
woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was superstition
behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power over
you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/ that
Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one time
names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina like
mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though I
would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it just
looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
<SNIP>
> Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>

Ave,

I tried to increase our books on the Amazon.com link...but was
unsuccessful. I even offered my services to help increase the book
listing on amazon.com and never got a response from the webmaster. I
have quite a few titles that could be added to the Amazon.com link
with the hope that it might increase Nova Roma's revenues.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites and Omnes,
>
> We have had plenty of Forum Fights over attempts to
> make major changes to Nova Roma, and I'd like to put
> them aside for now and concetrate on little things for
> a time. The Small details that are being overlooked
> during the arguments over major changes.
>
> Is there some little flaw in Nova Roma that's
> bothering you? A Bad link on a web Page? A Common
> misuse of Latin (something I'm likely guity of). Any
> small trivial items that can be easisly mended?
>
> Lets work on a list of small easy to fix items in Nova
> Roma, and improve the Res Publica by taking care of
> them.
>
> Citizens,
> Let's hear your sugestions.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Annia Octavia Indagatrix writes:

> ... Since the full three
> names for men were common knowledge, I wouldn't know why it wouldn't
> be the same for women, except that they had only 2 names commonly
> during, for the most part, the republican era.

My understanding is that women only typically had one name during
the republican era. For example, Julius Caesar's aunt was Julia,
as was his daughter. His mother was Aurelia. If there were
multiple girls born to a single family, they were distinguished
either by numbering (Julia Prima, Julia Secunda, etc...) or by
a diminuitive form for the younger daughter (Julilla).

I've gotten the idea that this practice changed during the time
of the Principate, but I don't know when or how the change
occured.

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...>
wrote:

> Ave,
>
> I tried to increase our books on the Amazon.com link...but was
> unsuccessful. I even offered my services to help increase the book
> listing on amazon.com and never got a response from the webmaster.

I

> have quite a few titles that could be added to the Amazon.com link
> with the hope that it might increase Nova Roma's revenues.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

I would really like to work on this section too; in fact, I
experimented with some of the new add-a-link tools at Amazon, but I
believe it will require access to the NR Amazon account to build the
new links. If that might be granted, I'm convinced that I could make
a terrific bookseller's taberna!

Julilla Sempronia Magna

Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica Omnibus salutem dicit;
as a paid up member of the Jewish Sodalitas, I can firmly tell you
that the Hebrew Hannah is in no way related to Roman Annia.
There is a Annius Verus, Marcus Aurelius's grandfather, so one can
presume that Annia is simply a Roman gens name.
Hannah is Hebrew, the Aramaic form I do not know, the Greek is
Anna. Interestingly if you look at the early martyr lists the names
are all Greek or Roman; Olympia, Longinus, Faustus, Rufinus. Now I
don't know if the Jews in Rome were Hellenized & took Greek as well
as Roman names; the Herodians certainly took Hellenized forms Salome,
as well as Herodias for female Herod. Doesn't sound very Jewish to
me. But I could be wrong.
As per your Roman name. When in a small group where I am known it
usually would be "Attica" or in my NR Course, I would sign Pomponia.
On the main list the formal start is very helpful & I would then
sign Pomponia Fabia Vera - my praenomen & gens.
Romans didn't have issues with secret praenomen, it was just that
females were not that important & how creative to number your
children! Romans were just pretty dull at nomenclature.
Interestingly there were the famous Arrias mother & daugter & their
grandaughter Fannia. Arria 1. had her fathers gens name, but daughter
Arria 2. bore her mothers (father was A. Caecina Paetus), whilst the
grandaughter Fannia's father was P. Clodius Thraseea Paetus.
Valete Omnes,
Pomponia Fabia Vera
In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix" <bryanta003@h...>
wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Actually, I got Annia from the Nova Roma list of female names in
> the names guideline. So if it isn't common, and I'll admit I'd not
> heard it, it was at least on that list as appropriate. There are

more

> than a half dozen Annia listings, mostly combined with a Faustina.
> Anna, from my understanding of it, is a derivative of Hannah, a
> jewish name that evolved into Anna during the Christian era. So I
> wouldn't expect Anna to be a common Roman name either, but rather
> Hannah since republican rome was pre-Christian. And again, I would
> expect Hannah to be common only to Romans of the Jewish religion. I
> could easily be wrong, however, so maybe someone else can pipe in

if

> I am.
> I don't know about the superstition part. Since the full three
> names for men were common knowledge, I wouldn't know why it

wouldn't

> be the same for women, except that they had only 2 names commonly
> during, for the most part, the republican era.
>
> Vale,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> <SNIP>
> > Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric for

a

> woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was

superstition

> behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power

over

> you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/

that

> Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one time
> names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina

like

> mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though I
> would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it just
> looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
> <SNIP>
> > Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
> >

Salve,

Thank you for providing additional details in support of my name
not being related to Anna. Though my knowledge was a bit limited, I
was quite sure they were not the same.

It is nice to know some additional precedents for Annia also.

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica Omnibus salutem dicit;
> as a paid up member of the Jewish Sodalitas, I can firmly tell
you
> that the Hebrew Hannah is in no way related to Roman Annia.
> There is a Annius Verus, Marcus Aurelius's grandfather, so one
can
> presume that Annia is simply a Roman gens name.
> Hannah is Hebrew, the Aramaic form I do not know, the Greek is
> Anna. Interestingly if you look at the early martyr lists the names
> are all Greek or Roman; Olympia, Longinus, Faustus, Rufinus. Now I
> don't know if the Jews in Rome were Hellenized & took Greek as well
> as Roman names; the Herodians certainly took Hellenized forms
Salome,
> as well as Herodias for female Herod. Doesn't sound very Jewish to
> me. But I could be wrong.
> As per your Roman name. When in a small group where I am known it
> usually would be "Attica" or in my NR Course, I would sign Pomponia.
> On the main list the formal start is very helpful & I would then
> sign Pomponia Fabia Vera - my praenomen & gens.
> Romans didn't have issues with secret praenomen, it was just that
> females were not that important & how creative to number your
> children! Romans were just pretty dull at nomenclature.
> Interestingly there were the famous Arrias mother & daugter &
their
> grandaughter Fannia. Arria 1. had her fathers gens name, but
daughter
> Arria 2. bore her mothers (father was A. Caecina Paetus), whilst
the
> grandaughter Fannia's father was P. Clodius Thraseea Paetus.
> Valete Omnes,
> Pomponia Fabia Vera
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix"
<bryanta003@h...>
> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Actually, I got Annia from the Nova Roma list of female names
in
> > the names guideline. So if it isn't common, and I'll admit I'd
not
> > heard it, it was at least on that list as appropriate. There are
> more
> > than a half dozen Annia listings, mostly combined with a Faustina.
> > Anna, from my understanding of it, is a derivative of Hannah,
a
> > jewish name that evolved into Anna during the Christian era. So I
> > wouldn't expect Anna to be a common Roman name either, but rather
> > Hannah since republican rome was pre-Christian. And again, I
would
> > expect Hannah to be common only to Romans of the Jewish religion.
I
> > could easily be wrong, however, so maybe someone else can pipe in
> if
> > I am.
> > I don't know about the superstition part. Since the full
three
> > names for men were common knowledge, I wouldn't know why it
> wouldn't
> > be the same for women, except that they had only 2 names commonly
> > during, for the most part, the republican era.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Annia Octavia Indagatrix
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > <SNIP>
> > > Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric
for
> a
> > woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was
> superstition
> > behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power
> over
> > you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/
> that
> > Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one
time
> > names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina
> like
> > mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though
I
> > would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it
just
> > looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
> > <SNIP>
> > > Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
> > >

Salvete

> If there were
> multiple girls born to a single family, they were distinguished
> either by numbering (Julia Prima, Julia Secunda, etc...) or by
> a diminuitive form for the younger daughter (Julilla).

Also, women sometimes had cognomina other than Prima, etc. Claudia
Pulchra would, for example, mean the pretty Claudia (as opposed to the
not-so-pretty Claudiae).

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
People who take issue with control of population do not understand that
if it is not done in a graceful way, nature will do it in a brutal fashion.
-Henry Kendall

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> There is a very valid reason to refrain from it. USA
> courts view private comments by officals that use
> tittles or offical organizational letterheads as
> evidence that it is an organizational viewpoint.

That's a very valid reason for magistrates and
Senators to choose their words carefully and not say
anything daft. :)

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

A. Apollonius Cordus to Julilla Sempronia Magna and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

The new version looks much better - I like the lighter
background.

I wonder about the picture; it's not the most
welcoming of images, and for people who don't know the
story of Romulus and Remus it could seem plain wierd.

I'm not sure what to suggest instead, though. Maybe
the flag? Or some impressive architecture?

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica Jullilae Semproniae Magnae salutem dicit;
I'm with Cordus int that the picture is a bit 'too much'.
Ironically I'm fond of the page as it is. When you first come to Nova
Roma the stodginess of the splash page is reassuring. It chases away
any notions of it being a weird culty group & this, I think, is an
important point to consider.
The internal links could be rearranged. I never even knew till
months later where the Album Gentium was or that it existed. I'd like
to see a nice Library where there would be urls for various subjects,
but really it's just fine as it is.
Vale Pomponia Fabia Vera



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Julilla Sempronia Magna and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> The new version looks much better - I like the lighter
> background.
>
> I wonder about the picture; it's not the most
> welcoming of images, and for people who don't know the
> story of Romulus and Remus it could seem plain wierd.
>
> I'm not sure what to suggest instead, though. Maybe
> the flag? Or some impressive architecture?
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
__

> Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

Yahoo!

> Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<curatrix@v...> wrote:

> All right, nobody seems to have been particularly happy with the
> entrance to our site for some time, and as one of the scriba to the
> Curator Araneum, I've been throwing around ideas for about a year

and

> a half or so.
>
> I don't think it's appropriate for me to just go ahead and change

the

> entrance myself (though I generally am tempted to ask for

forgiveness

> instead of permission in many cases) but I have taken the liberty,

in

> this case, of throwing a simple splash page into a subdirectory so
> everyone can see it. Perhaps this will spark ideas! Keep in mind

that

> the links don't function.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/splash/
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna
> Scriba, Curator Araneum

Salve,

Overall I say very well done. I like the new background, it's not so
dark and forboding. My only "criticism" is that the Capitoline Wolf
statue is a hideous work of art, but that is just personal taste.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Given the discussion of online etiquette and nomenclature, this may be
of interest. Here's a link to "Classical Salutations and Closings in
Greek and Roman Letters, Adapted to Electronic Mail":

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/OM/CSC.html

This page, created by John Opsopaus, provides a good introduction to
openning and closing protoccols in ancient Greek and Latin letters.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Excellent. I have hundreds of titles to get added into the bookstore
section of the website.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<curatrix@v...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...>
> wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > I tried to increase our books on the Amazon.com link...but was
> > unsuccessful. I even offered my services to help increase the

book

> > listing on amazon.com and never got a response from the

webmaster.

> I
> > have quite a few titles that could be added to the Amazon.com

link

> > with the hope that it might increase Nova Roma's revenues.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> I would really like to work on this section too; in fact, I
> experimented with some of the new add-a-link tools at Amazon, but I
> believe it will require access to the NR Amazon account to build

the

> new links. If that might be granted, I'm convinced that I could

make

> a terrific bookseller's taberna!
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salve,

Can DVD/VHS titles be added as well? I looked to see if I,
Claudius was listed and since it wasn't I had to buy without going
through our amazon link. I have a huge list of books I'm going for
and I usually put in an order a month from them and not very many are
on our list. (I don't read, I devour.) It would be nice to have a
really full listing available.

Vale,

Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...>
wrote:

> Excellent. I have hundreds of titles to get added into the

bookstore

> section of the website.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
> <curatrix@v...> wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine"

<alexious@e...>

> > wrote:
> > > Ave,
> > >
> > > I tried to increase our books on the Amazon.com link...but was
> > > unsuccessful. I even offered my services to help increase the
> book
> > > listing on amazon.com and never got a response from the
> webmaster.
> > I
> > > have quite a few titles that could be added to the Amazon.com
> link
> > > with the hope that it might increase Nova Roma's revenues.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> > I would really like to work on this section too; in fact, I
> > experimented with some of the new add-a-link tools at Amazon, but

I

> > believe it will require access to the NR Amazon account to build
> the
> > new links. If that might be granted, I'm convinced that I could
> make
> > a terrific bookseller's taberna!
> >
> > Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salve D. Iuni Silane,

> > For another minor thing, being one myself, shouldn't
> > retiarii (provincial webmasters) be permitted to
> > have the century points of a scribe? As far as I can
> > see, they are appointed as scribes. Could we not
> > simply have a senatus consultum equating retiarii
> > with provincial scribae?
>
> Governors can simply appoint their provincial
> webmasters as scribae. They can then receive century
> points for their hard work. What the scribe then gets
> called is anyones business :-)

I think this would be a good idea myself. If I'm not mistaken, T. Arminius was designated as 'Scriba Retiarius' on his appointment by M. Arminius. Which ensures he recieves the correct credit.

When I actually can vote, and the points actually have some value to me, I suppose I might make that as a suggestion to my propraetor.

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Civis Privatus

Sp. Postumius sal. Omnibus

Salvete,

[e manu Auli Apolloni Cordi]

> The new version looks much better - I like the lighter
> background.
>
> I wonder about the picture; it's not the most
> welcoming of images, and for people who don't know the
> story of Romulus and Remus it could seem plain wierd.
>
> I'm not sure what to suggest instead, though. Maybe
> the flag? Or some impressive architecture?

[terminatio litterarum Cordi]

I like the idea of impressive architecture. Perhaps a model of something like a curia or a basilica of some sort. Is it possible Julilla?

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Civis Privatus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix"
<bryanta003@h...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Can DVD/VHS titles be added as well? I looked to see if I,
> Claudius was listed and since it wasn't I had to buy without going
> through our amazon link. I have a huge list of books I'm going for
> and I usually put in an order a month from them and not very many

are

> on our list. (I don't read, I devour.) It would be nice to have a
> really full listing available.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>

... they could be, yes! :-D

Julilla Sempronia Magna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sp. Postumius Tubertus"
<postumius@g...> wrote:

> Sp. Postumius sal. Omnibus
>
> Salvete,
>
> [e manu Auli Apolloni Cordi]
>
> > The new version looks much better - I like the lighter
> > background.
> >
> > I wonder about the picture; it's not the most
> > welcoming of images, and for people who don't know the
> > story of Romulus and Remus it could seem plain wierd.
> >
> > I'm not sure what to suggest instead, though. Maybe
> > the flag? Or some impressive architecture?
>
> [terminatio litterarum Cordi]
>
> I like the idea of impressive architecture. Perhaps a model of

something like a curia or a basilica of some sort. Is it possible
Julilla?

>
> Vale,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus
>
> Civis Privatus

Indeed 3-D reconstructions of ancient buildings are wonderful, if an
artist would be so kind as to allow us to use an appropriate
rendering, I'd be delighted. I've saved some wonderful renderings of
the interior of the Pantheon and actually asked permission last year
to use them (with credit), which was granted.

I'm so pleased to have so many constructive ideas and suggestions
(tho' I'm crushed that Q. Cassius Calvus thinks that the Lupa
Capitolina is hideous; I was enchanted to see her up close and
personal in the Capitoline Museum recently. She's a tour de force!

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

In a message dated 8/2/03 11:30:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
curatrix@... writes:

> I'm so pleased to have so many constructive ideas and suggestions
> (tho' I'm crushed that Q. Cassius Calvus thinks that the Lupa
> Capitolina is hideous; I was enchanted to see her up close and
> personal in the Capitoline Museum recently. She's a tour de force!
>

First off I'd be against replacing Lupa. She has been our symbol since the
reorganization.
Second. I have drafts of temples, from Delphi to Rome. However, too much
art work on the Splash page would mean a longer load time. We want the load to
be as fast as possible.

As for the family value quote of 98 it is dated and should be removed. In
fact I talked about this very thing to Marcus Cassius at Roman Days.
The Gods reside at Olympus, be they worshiped by Romans or Greeks.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete citizens,

Hmm, I'm just wondering: can the content of the website be changed without
input of the Senate?

According to the LEX VEDIA VIGINTISEXVIRI "the curator araneum (overseer of
the web) shall be responsible for the design, expansion, and maintenance of
the official web site(s) sponsored by the State. The curator araneum shall
solicit input from the other magistrates regarding content for the web site
related to their offices, if any, and shall have the authority to appoint
his own scribae, should he deem it necessary."

My question is: although I find the 'family values' comment to be a US term,
but can the Curator unilaterally just delete it? Can he unilaterally change
the 'Olympus' comment to the 'Gods of Rome'? The above Lex does not mention
anything about the Curator Araneum having the authority to delete/change the
content of the site. I'm being paranoid now: I'm worried that one day we'll
get a Curator Araneae who will delete the Religio aspects of Nova Roma from
our website.

And I like the intro page as it is, Gods of Olympus and all. I remember
finding it years ago while looking for Roman and Greek Pagan groups and
since then I've been hooked! The Gods of Olympus comment across the top of
the page assured me that this was not just a Roman history group and that
religion would be an important part of Nova Roma. The Olympus comment
*could* be changed to 'The Gods of Rome are calling' but not left on the
bottom where you need to cursor down in order to find it. It should be on
top, and clear to see because the Gods of Rome did come first in ancient
Rome and should always come first in new Rome.

Valete,
Diana Moravia

>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: rory12001 [mailto:rory12001@...]
>Verzonden: zaterdag 2 augustus 2003 21:58
>Aan: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Onderwerp: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Little Things
>
>
> Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica Omnibus salutem dicit;
> as a paid up member of the Jewish Sodalitas, I can firmly tell you
>that the Hebrew Hannah is in no way related to Roman Annia.
> There is a Annius Verus, Marcus Aurelius's grandfather, so one can
>presume that Annia is simply a Roman gens name.
> Hannah is Hebrew, the Aramaic form I do not know, the Greek is
>Anna. Interestingly if you look at the early martyr lists the names
>are all Greek or Roman; Olympia, Longinus, Faustus, Rufinus. Now I
>don't know if the Jews in Rome were Hellenized & took Greek as well
>as Roman names; the Herodians certainly took Hellenized forms Salome,
>as well as Herodias for female Herod. Doesn't sound very Jewish to
>me. But I could be wrong.
> As per your Roman name. When in a small group where I am known it
>usually would be "Attica" or in my NR Course, I would sign Pomponia.
> On the main list the formal start is very helpful & I would then
>sign Pomponia Fabia Vera - my praenomen & gens.
> Romans didn't have issues with secret praenomen, it was just that
>females were not that important & how creative to number your
>children! Romans were just pretty dull at nomenclature.
> Interestingly there were the famous Arrias mother & daugter & their
>grandaughter Fannia. Arria 1. had her fathers gens name, but daughter
>Arria 2. bore her mothers (father was A. Caecina Paetus), whilst the
>grandaughter Fannia's father was P. Clodius Thraseea Paetus.
> Valete Omnes,
> Pomponia Fabia Vera
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix" <bryanta003@h...>
>wrote:
>> Salve,
>>
>> Actually, I got Annia from the Nova Roma list of female names in
>> the names guideline. So if it isn't common, and I'll admit I'd not
>> heard it, it was at least on that list as appropriate. There are
>more
>> than a half dozen Annia listings, mostly combined with a Faustina.
>> Anna, from my understanding of it, is a derivative of Hannah, a
>> jewish name that evolved into Anna during the Christian era. So I
>> wouldn't expect Anna to be a common Roman name either, but rather
>> Hannah since republican rome was pre-Christian. And again, I would
>> expect Hannah to be common only to Romans of the Jewish religion. I
>> could easily be wrong, however, so maybe someone else can pipe in
>if
>> I am.
>> I don't know about the superstition part. Since the full three
>> names for men were common knowledge, I wouldn't know why it
>wouldn't
>> be the same for women, except that they had only 2 names commonly
>> during, for the most part, the republican era.
>>
>> Vale,
>> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> <SNIP>
>> > Annia is an odd name. I'd have expected Anna. It's unhistoric for
>a
>> woman to have praenomen isn't it? I wonder if there was
>superstition
>> behind the use of names - give your true name and you give power
>over
>> you? I've also wondered about Greece. Isn't is so /appropriate/
>that
>> Sokrates loved wisdom and so on. Might there have been at one time
>> names that were never written? As for the unhistoric praenomina
>like
>> mine, I abbreviate to Vib. assuming that Tiberius was Tib. Though I
>> would prefer Uibius as suggestive of correct pronunciation it just
>> looks plain weird. I don't know why Iulius for Julius does not.
>> <SNIP>
>> > Uibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>> >
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

--- qfabiusmaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/2/03 11:30:21 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> curatrix@... writes:
>
>
> > I'm so pleased to have so many constructive ideas
> and suggestions
> > (tho' I'm crushed that Q. Cassius Calvus thinks
> that the Lupa
> > Capitolina is hideous; I was enchanted to see her
> up close and
> > personal in the Capitoline Museum recently. She's
> a tour de force!
> >
>
> First off I'd be against replacing Lupa. She has
> been our symbol since the
> reorganization.

LSD: She has also symbolized Roma since the time of
the kings.

> Second. I have drafts of temples, from Delphi to
> Rome. However, too much
> art work on the Splash page would mean a longer load
> time. We want the load to
> be as fast as possible.

LSD: There is also the Dii Consentes art work that I
made availble for wallpaper a few weeks ago.

The Splash Page is mainly a gateway for the first time
visitor. They don't have a great intrest in Nova Roma
(yet), so if it takes too long to load they are likely
to hit that back arrow and move on. There are still a
lot of people using dial up accounts.

Once you get past about a 10 second load time, each
additional second results in more people clicking the
back button. That is a loss of people who could have
become valued citizens of Nova Roma.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

> Salvete citizens,
>
> Hmm, I'm just wondering: can the content of the
> website be changed without
> input of the Senate?
>
> According to the LEX VEDIA VIGINTISEXVIRI "the
> curator araneum (overseer of
> the web) shall be responsible for the design,
> expansion, and maintenance of
> the official web site(s) sponsored by the State. The
> curator araneum shall
> solicit input from the other magistrates regarding
> content for the web site
> related to their offices, if any, and shall have the
> authority to appoint
> his own scribae, should he deem it necessary."
>
> My question is: although I find the 'family values'
> comment to be a US term,
> but can the Curator unilaterally just delete it? Can
> he unilaterally change
> the 'Olympus' comment to the 'Gods of Rome'? The
> above Lex does not mention
> anything about the Curator Araneum having the
> authority to delete/change the
> content of the site. I'm being paranoid now: I'm
> worried that one day we'll
> get a Curator Araneae who will delete the Religio
> aspects of Nova Roma from
> our website.
>

The term "design" does give the curator the power to
make changes.

If a curator or one of his/her scribes were ever
foolish enough to attempt to delete the Religio
section of the site, or even to redesign the site in a
manner that downplayed the Religio, I will personally
go to the Praetors to file a Blasphemy charge against
the person who did it. A Case like that is why the
clause is in the Constitution.



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

--- Julilla Sempronia Magna
<curatrix@...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius
> Drusus"
> <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
> > Oh one other thing I forgot in the post. I allways
> > include a remark line just after the Doc type
> > statement that has a copyright notice, ie
> Copyright
> > (C) 2003 Nova Roma Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> >
> Righto. With suggestions and meta tags:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/splash/
>
> I particularly like the flag idea, myself!
>

Yes it does add a nice international look to the site,
and seeing the Nova Roman flag having equal status
with other National flags sends just the right
message.

It would be better if the flags were larger. this
could be done by having the language name below the
flag instead of beside it, something like this.

FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG
FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG FLAG
Name Name Name Name Name Name

This design element could also be used for the
language selection on the Main Pages.




=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Salvete,

Some Portals like Yahoo and Netscape have a feature
called "My Yahoo" or "My Netscape", where the user can
select the items he wants to appear on a customized
page.

This isn't a trivial feature to implement, but I do
think that it would be a nice option to have. Citizens
would be able to from a series of options to create a
personal "My Nova Roma" Page that would have things
like a calendar for the Religio, or News from one of
the Sodalitates, or other areas that intrest them.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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--- Julilla Sempronia Magna
<curatrix@...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "aoctaviaindagatrix"
> <bryanta003@h...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Can DVD/VHS titles be added as well? I looked
> to see if I,
> > Claudius was listed and since it wasn't I had to
> buy without going
> > through our amazon link. I have a huge list of
> books I'm going for
> > and I usually put in an order a month from them
> and not very many
> are
> > on our list. (I don't read, I devour.) It would be
> nice to have a
> > really full listing available.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Annia Octavia Indagatrix
> >
>
> ... they could be, yes! :-D
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna
>
>

If the Page with Links to Amazon gets too large it
will be hard to find what you are looking for, so it
might be a good idea to break it down into several
smaller pages with an index page for different
catigories.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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--- "Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@...>
wrote:

> Salve D. Iuni Silane,
>
> > > For another minor thing, being one myself,
> shouldn't
> > > retiarii (provincial webmasters) be permitted to
> > > have the century points of a scribe? As far as I
> can
> > > see, they are appointed as scribes. Could we not
> > > simply have a senatus consultum equating
> retiarii
> > > with provincial scribae?
> >
> > Governors can simply appoint their provincial
> > webmasters as scribae. They can then receive
> century
> > points for their hard work. What the scribe then
> gets
> > called is anyones business :-)
>
> I think this would be a good idea myself. If I'm not
> mistaken, T. Arminius was designated as 'Scriba
> Retiarius' on his appointment by M. Arminius. Which
> ensures he recieves the correct credit.
>
> When I actually can vote, and the points actually
> have some value to me, I suppose I might make that
> as a suggestion to my propraetor.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus
>
> Civis Privatus
>

Last year there was an attempt to overhaul the point
system, but discussion on the mainlist quickly turned
into a greedy points grab.

If anyone wishes to offer thier services to Nova Roma,
then I encourage them to do it without worrying about
the points. I Have no idea how many I have.

If there is another attempt to overhaul the system
there needs to be some kind of limit on points that a
magistrate can award. With unlimited points there
nothing stopping a Propraetor from apoining evertone
in his province as a Scribe, just so they can pick up
points.

Since tthere are huge diferences in the population of
the provinces no set number can serve the needs of all
of them, so there needs to be a formula based on
population that limits the number of offices recieving
points.

One thing that we did find out last year, overhauling
the point system is something that can be done easily.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Salvete,

Ive seen several susgestions that we add a "library" a
list of links. This is far harder to maintain than it
seems. The Internet is constantly changing. Links
quickly become worthless as sites die off or revamp
thier content. Someone may purchase a domain name from
someone who is no longer intrested in it and use it
for a diferent purpose. Pornographers do this fairly
often.

I Know from experance that maintaining a large libray
of links is a full time job. If they aren't tested on
a regular basis you wind up with dead links or worse.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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I really can'y call Lupa Capolitana hideous, that image was quite probably the one thing that made me take the site seriously when I first saw it. I don't know that I would call it exciting, but it did prompt me to look further into the site. I'm glad that I did... moreover, I think that Lupa Capolitana more than any other image represents the spirit of the foundation of the Roman Republic. You cannot separate the ideal from its mythos. Upon seeing the image, I felt it was reasonable to expect the level of seriousness that I was seeking.

L. Licinius Murena

Julilla Sempronia Magna <curatrix@...> wrote:
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sp. Postumius Tubertus"
<postumius@g...> wrote:

> Sp. Postumius sal. Omnibus
>
> Salvete,
>
> [e manu Auli Apolloni Cordi]
>
> > The new version looks much better - I like the lighter
> > background.
> >
> > I wonder about the picture; it's not the most
> > welcoming of images, and for people who don't know the
> > story of Romulus and Remus it could seem plain wierd.
> >
> > I'm not sure what to suggest instead, though. Maybe
> > the flag? Or some impressive architecture?
>
> [terminatio litterarum Cordi]
>
> I like the idea of impressive architecture. Perhaps a model of

something like a curia or a basilica of some sort. Is it possible
Julilla?

>
> Vale,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus
>
> Civis Privatus

Indeed 3-D reconstructions of ancient buildings are wonderful, if an
artist would be so kind as to allow us to use an appropriate
rendering, I'd be delighted. I've saved some wonderful renderings of
the interior of the Pantheon and actually asked permission last year
to use them (with credit), which was granted.

I'm so pleased to have so many constructive ideas and suggestions
(tho' I'm crushed that Q. Cassius Calvus thinks that the Lupa
Capitolina is hideous; I was enchanted to see her up close and
personal in the Capitoline Museum recently. She's a tour de force!

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna


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