True, even in history, I like Cesar much better than Antony and it
has nothing to do with hindsight, it is just a gut feeling.


SNIP

> But Antony was never as popular with his men as Caesar. Not even
> close (well...maybe in his earlier days). If your men aren't behind
> you you will fail, regardless of who's plans you follow. Besides
> Antony at one time may have been an excellent commander, but
> eventually he was forced to buy his army's loyalty (ok...more than
> any other commander had to). Octavian had the popularity amongst

the

> legions by that point by riding the wave of "Son of a God" fervor.
>
> C. Livius Varus Germanicus

Quntesential word - CHARISMA
That was it - he had the common touch, engendered loyalty, devotion
and respect.
I am movie biased and the Liz Taylor Cleopatra movie had a scene
where Cleo was crowned Queen Of Egypt and Cesar knelt at her
coronation. Later, Antony is commanded to kneel before her and
his "pride" revolted like a school boy bully.
Cleo said something like I asked Caesar to kneel, I demand that you
kneel.
I got the impression he was the type of man people would die for(as I
am sure he was and that was the type of personality trying to be
portrayed) and Antony was just a spoiled boy.
Then there is the Marlon Brando Antony of Shakespear which shows him
to be devout and eloquent - the hand of justice.

I just don't know, I'm so confused, lol.



SNIP

> M.Arminius: Well... sometimes the legions of Caesar
> revolted. The sixth legion, in Syria, revolted and
> killed their leader, Sextus Caesar, cousin of the
> Dictator (according to Luciano Canfora, in his book,
> Julius Caesar, the Democratic Dictator).
> But in general, i believe that the charisma of Caesar
> was higher than of M.Antonius, this is, he was able to
> extract more dedication/effort from a legionary.
>
> >
> > C. Livius Varus Germanicus
>
> Marcus Arminius
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
_

> Desafio AntiZona - Um emocionante desafio de perguntas e respostas

que

> te dá um Renault Clio, kits de eletrônicos, computadores, notebooks

e

> mochilas. Cadastre-se, participe e concorra!
> www.cade.com.br/antizona

Vale Amice,
Now that is what I call a well thought out reply!
Damn, your good, lol.
Thanks, for the information it shows not only factual knowledge but a
sublime understanding of the situations you can't get from a textbook.
The war game reanectment - or enactment not to be confused with a
typical history re-play but an actual hypothetical battle.
What if there were no hypothetical question?
LMAO!
Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> It is difficult to visualize just how a campaign against the
Parthians with C. Julius Caesar in command would have gone. However,
it is likely that it would have an entirely different outcome than
the Crassus expedition. Caesar would have had Marcus Antonius as his
Master of Horse plus the extensive resources of the Egyptian state to
help back him militarily and economically. It is likely he would
also have made use of Lucullus and possibly Lepidus, both generals
with a good deal of experience fighting in the east. While the
Ptolemic armies of Egypt had declined in quality during the last 100
years or so, they still had some excellent cavalry. Furthermore, the
Hasmonean dynasty in Judea would no doubt have provided both heavy
horse and light mounted archers as mercenaries, as would the Bedouins
(who were good to have on one's side just to raid the enemy and keep
them away from your supplies). Also, I doubt that Caesar would have
panicked in a crisis like Crassus did during his campaign. Caesar
would likely have taken the safer route of moving down the one of the
rivers rather than the more risky overland route. Afterall, Caesar
had fought all over the growing Republic. As a wargame, this would
make an excellent chance to see just how well he could have handled a
difficult campaign under rigorous logistical and topographical
challenges.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

That was a large help. There is so much I have yet to read about NR
goals.
This makes things easier for me also.
We can be both NR and our own Nationality, Government and Religion
and just play at it during ceremonies etc.
We would not be seen as a threat to other nations and governments as
we would be benign, all bark and no bite so to speak, lol, which
makes it easier for those in the military not to feel split in their
lyalties or to be percieved as a possible threat.
I like it most for it gives us the best of both worlds and I don't
have to lose my "self" to be NR - this makes it so much easier to
play at the ideals of the Religio and not feel treasonous to my
Dieties and beliefs.
I can't say thank you enough for posting this. I'm sure it will be a
monumental help for the new citizens and the more recent ones as well.
Vale


SNIP

>
> Here is the text:
>
> We, the Senate and People of New Rome, in order to restore the
> foundations of Western Civilization, declare the founding of Nova
> Roma as a soverign Nation. We manifest Nova Roma as an independent
> world nation and republic, with its own legal constitution and

lawful

> government, with all international rights and responsibilities that
> such status carries.
>
> As a soverign nation Nova Roma makes the following claim to various
> international territories and rights:
>
> We acknowledge ancient Roman territory to be our cultural and
> religious homeland, and claim historical rights to all sites and
> territories which were under the direct control or administration

of

> the ancient Roman Republic and Empire between 753 BCE and 395 CE.
>
> We recognize the modern political realities which make the
> restoration of such ancient lands to us impossible. Therefore we
> limit our active territorial claim to an amount of land at least
> equal to that held by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108
> contiguous acres. On this land a world capital for the admistration
> of our culture will be founded in the form of a Forum Romanum. The
> exact site for this New Roman governmental and spiritual capital is
> to be determined.
>
> Further, in order that our world presence may be established, Nova
> Roma claims our physical territory to be extant and manifest

through

> those places that our State, Citizens, and religious organizations
> may physically own, occupy, and maintain throughout the world.

These

> territories shall exist in a status of Dual Sovereignity, being

under

> the cultural and spiritual administration of Nova Roma, even as

they

> remain under the civil dominion and laws of other hosting nations.
> Our pledge is to embody a benign and beneficial cultural and
> spiritual influence throughout all societies, while remaining
> politically neutral and lawful in action.
>
> Nova Roma also claims temporary Dual Sovereignity over all other
> sites where the Gods and Goddesses of ancient Rome shall be
> worshipped by our Citizens, to preserve our cultural and spiritual
> unity. This dual sovereignity shall be administered by the People
> directly and shall last only for the duration of religious

ceremonies

> and rites. In this way we shall remain one culture and nation, even
> as we exist throughout other world countries.
>
> Citizenship in Nova Roma is open to people of all nationalities and
> races. The express purpose of our nation is to promote

international

> understanding and cooperation through the preservation of our

common

> Classical foundation, and to breathe new life and honor into all
> Western Civilization through the restoration of ancient Piety,
> Virtue, and Civilitas.
>
> We, the Citizens and Senate of New Rome hereby formally renounce,
> eternally and without exception, the use of force, rebellion,
> coercion, or intimidation in the pursuit of our international

status

> and claims. We strive to exist as a lawful, peaceful and benign
> nation, in accord with the principles acknowledged and shared by

the

> world community.
>
> Signed this day on behalf of the Senate and People of the New Rome
>
> II Kal. Mar., MMDCCLI ab urbe condita (February 28th 1998)
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Consul
>
> Cassius Iulianus, Consul
>
> ______
>
> If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Why limit yourself to one?
I would think of it as a practical Toga and a formal Toga - one for
most days and another for special occasions but that is an uninformed
oppinion as to actual practice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian Gunn" <hadrianus@3...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I'm getting ready to make a Toga (actually my Fiance, who can sew

is

> really going to make it..*g*) and I am wondering which size most

Nova

> Romans who have togas use: the smaller Republican or larger

Imperial?

>
> I'm personally leaning towards the Republican toga.
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus

Salvete Marce Ambrosi omnesque

> We can be both NR and our own Nationality, Government and Religion
> and just play at it during ceremonies etc.

One hopes that Nova Roma is more than something that its cives "just play at".
While we remain realistic about our goals, and are more interested in (re)
creating a nation (perhaps it would be better to say a people) than a country,
this does not make Nova Roma any less a serious enterprise.

> I like it most for it gives us the best of both worlds and I don't
> have to lose my "self" to be NR - this makes it so much easier to
> play at the ideals of the Religio and not feel treasonous to my
> Dieties and beliefs.

I sincerely hope that nobody thinks that we require him or her to lose his or
her "self" in order to be part of Nova Roma. Beyond that, I hope that nobody
would be willing to surrender themselves to Nova Roma to that degree. If you
come to care about Nova Roma, then by all means do what you can to help Her
grow. If you don't, then you're welcome to stick around watch those of us who
do care about Her so long as you don't interfere with the attempt. It's up to
you, sine coercion.

And, please do not "play at" the ideals of the Religio Romana. Nothing
requires you to practice the Religio Romana, whether you are a Nova Roman civis
or not. So, either practice it in good faith--that is, piously--or don't
practice it at all. This shouldn't stop you from talking about the Religio
Romana, or from asking questions about it, but it's not a game for quite a few
of us and you'll only cause a lot of resentment if you treat it as one.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Ave M. Ambrosius,

It was no problem. The Declaration is listed in the Tabularium, with
the rest of the laws, constitution and other governing texts. Its an
area all Nova Romans should explore and examine.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:

> That was a large help. There is so much I have yet to read about

NR

> goals.
> This makes things easier for me also.
> We can be both NR and our own Nationality, Government and Religion
> and just play at it during ceremonies etc.
> We would not be seen as a threat to other nations and governments

as

> we would be benign, all bark and no bite so to speak, lol, which
> makes it easier for those in the military not to feel split in

their

> lyalties or to be percieved as a possible threat.
> I like it most for it gives us the best of both worlds and I don't
> have to lose my "self" to be NR - this makes it so much easier to
> play at the ideals of the Religio and not feel treasonous to my
> Dieties and beliefs.
> I can't say thank you enough for posting this. I'm sure it will be

a

> monumental help for the new citizens and the more recent ones as

well.

> Vale
>
>
> SNIP
> >
> > Here is the text:
> >
> > We, the Senate and People of New Rome, in order to restore the
> > foundations of Western Civilization, declare the founding of Nova
> > Roma as a soverign Nation. We manifest Nova Roma as an

independent

> > world nation and republic, with its own legal constitution and
> lawful
> > government, with all international rights and responsibilities

that

> > such status carries.
> >
> > As a soverign nation Nova Roma makes the following claim to

various

> > international territories and rights:
> >
> > We acknowledge ancient Roman territory to be our cultural and
> > religious homeland, and claim historical rights to all sites and
> > territories which were under the direct control or administration
> of
> > the ancient Roman Republic and Empire between 753 BCE and 395 CE.
> >
> > We recognize the modern political realities which make the
> > restoration of such ancient lands to us impossible. Therefore we
> > limit our active territorial claim to an amount of land at least
> > equal to that held by the sovereign state of Vatican City; 108
> > contiguous acres. On this land a world capital for the

admistration

> > of our culture will be founded in the form of a Forum Romanum.

The

> > exact site for this New Roman governmental and spiritual capital

is

> > to be determined.
> >
> > Further, in order that our world presence may be established,

Nova

> > Roma claims our physical territory to be extant and manifest
> through
> > those places that our State, Citizens, and religious

organizations

> > may physically own, occupy, and maintain throughout the world.
> These
> > territories shall exist in a status of Dual Sovereignity, being
> under
> > the cultural and spiritual administration of Nova Roma, even as
> they
> > remain under the civil dominion and laws of other hosting

nations.

> > Our pledge is to embody a benign and beneficial cultural and
> > spiritual influence throughout all societies, while remaining
> > politically neutral and lawful in action.
> >
> > Nova Roma also claims temporary Dual Sovereignity over all other
> > sites where the Gods and Goddesses of ancient Rome shall be
> > worshipped by our Citizens, to preserve our cultural and

spiritual

> > unity. This dual sovereignity shall be administered by the People
> > directly and shall last only for the duration of religious
> ceremonies
> > and rites. In this way we shall remain one culture and nation,

even

> > as we exist throughout other world countries.
> >
> > Citizenship in Nova Roma is open to people of all nationalities

and

> > races. The express purpose of our nation is to promote
> international
> > understanding and cooperation through the preservation of our
> common
> > Classical foundation, and to breathe new life and honor into all
> > Western Civilization through the restoration of ancient Piety,
> > Virtue, and Civilitas.
> >
> > We, the Citizens and Senate of New Rome hereby formally renounce,
> > eternally and without exception, the use of force, rebellion,
> > coercion, or intimidation in the pursuit of our international
> status
> > and claims. We strive to exist as a lawful, peaceful and benign
> > nation, in accord with the principles acknowledged and shared by
> the
> > world community.
> >
> > Signed this day on behalf of the Senate and People of the New

Rome

> >
> > II Kal. Mar., MMDCCLI ab urbe condita (February 28th 1998)
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Consul
> >
> > Cassius Iulianus, Consul
> >
> > ______
> >
> > If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Hmmmm, yes, I can see how that might wrankle.
I want to gove the proper attitude when in NR so as not to offend
whether that be pretend or play - just a bad choice of words on my
part. Enact as in the recreations might be better. I still get
confused as to where NR stands and how it affects the non virtual
world.
At first I honestly thought it was a role playing game and many of
the posts made that seem more so but there were those that were not
playing and I soon realized I was mistaken.
It's virtuality is what is making it difficult for me to make the
connection.
I'm trying, and thanks for your suggestions.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, labienus@n... wrote:
> Salvete Marce Ambrosi omnesque
>
> > We can be both NR and our own Nationality, Government and
Religion
> > and just play at it during ceremonies etc.
>
> One hopes that Nova Roma is more than something that its
cives "just play at".
> While we remain realistic about our goals, and are more interested
in (re)
> creating a nation (perhaps it would be better to say a people) than
a country,
> this does not make Nova Roma any less a serious enterprise.
>
> > I like it most for it gives us the best of both worlds and I
don't
> > have to lose my "self" to be NR - this makes it so much easier to
> > play at the ideals of the Religio and not feel treasonous to my
> > Dieties and beliefs.
>
> I sincerely hope that nobody thinks that we require him or her to
lose his or
> her "self" in order to be part of Nova Roma. Beyond that, I hope
that nobody
> would be willing to surrender themselves to Nova Roma to that
degree. If you
> come to care about Nova Roma, then by all means do what you can to
help Her
> grow. If you don't, then you're welcome to stick around watch
those of us who
> do care about Her so long as you don't interfere with the attempt.
It's up to
> you, sine coercion.
>
> And, please do not "play at" the ideals of the Religio Romana.
Nothing
> requires you to practice the Religio Romana, whether you are a Nova
Roman civis
> or not. So, either practice it in good faith--that is, piously--or
don't
> practice it at all. This shouldn't stop you from talking about the
Religio
> Romana, or from asking questions about it, but it's not a game for
quite a few
> of us and you'll only cause a lot of resentment if you treat it as
one.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus

I'll be sure to check it out in more detail.
Thanks again.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...>
wrote:

> Ave M. Ambrosius,
>
> It was no problem. The Declaration is listed in the Tabularium,

with

> the rest of the laws, constitution and other governing texts. Its

an

> area all Nova Romans should explore and examine.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
> <mballetta@h...> wrote:
> > That was a large help. There is so much I have yet to read about
> NR
> > goals.
> > This makes things easier for me also.
> > We can be both NR and our own Nationality, Government and

Religion

> > and just play at it during ceremonies etc.
> > We would not be seen as a threat to other nations and governments
> as
> > we would be benign, all bark and no bite so to speak, lol, which
> > makes it easier for those in the military not to feel split in
> their
> > lyalties or to be percieved as a possible threat.
> > I like it most for it gives us the best of both worlds and I

don't

> > have to lose my "self" to be NR - this makes it so much easier to
> > play at the ideals of the Religio and not feel treasonous to my
> > Dieties and beliefs.
> > I can't say thank you enough for posting this. I'm sure it will

be

> a
> > monumental help for the new citizens and the more recent ones as
> well.
> > Vale
> >
> SNIP

There used to be an old tabletop-and-cardboard-pieces wargame called "Imperium Romanum" (I think). Its map covered the whole Mare Nostrum area and it included war scenarios from Marius/Sulla through to Belisaurius. A hypothetical matchup between Caesar and the Parthians was definitely one of the scenarios.

Does anyone remember any more about this particular game? I'm sure there would be copies available at GenCon and other gaming conventions.

Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Nauta

"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@...> wrote:

> Vale Amice,
>Now that is what I call a well thought out reply!
>Damn, your good, lol.
>Thanks, for the information it shows not only factual knowledge but a
>sublime understanding of the situations you can't get from a textbook.
>The war game reanectment - or enactment not to be confused with a
>typical history re-play but an actual hypothetical battle.nbsp;
>What if there were no hypothetical question?
>LMAO!
>Vale
>
>
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
>gt; It is difficult to visualize just how a campaign against the
>Parthians with C. Julius Caesar in command would have gone.nbsp; However,
>it is likely that it would have an entirely different outcome than
>the Crassus expedition.nbsp; Caesar would have had Marcus Antonius as his
>Master of Horse plus the extensive resources of the Egyptian state to
>help back him militarily and economically.nbsp; It is likely he would
>also have made use of Lucullus and possibly Lepidus, both generals
>with a good deal of experience fighting in the east. While the
>Ptolemic armies of Egypt had declined in quality during the last 100
>years or so, they still had some excellent cavalry.nbsp; Furthermore, the
>Hasmonean dynasty in Judea would no doubt have provided both heavy
>horse and light mounted archers as mercenaries, as would the Bedouins
>(who were good to have on one's side just to raid the enemy and keep
>them away from your supplies).nbsp; Also, I doubt that Caesar would have
>panicked in a crisis like Crassus did during his campaign.nbsp; Caesar
>would likely have taken the safer route of moving down the one of the
>rivers rather than the more risky overland route.nbsp; Afterall, Caesar
>had fought all over the growing Republic.nbsp; As a wargame, this would
>make an excellent chance to see just how well he could have handled a
>difficult campaign under rigorous logistical and topographical
>challenges.
>gt;
>gt; F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
>
>
>
>    *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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Edictum Praetorium Americum Mediatlanticum II Praetoris Equiti Marini:
Appointment of Scribes

Gn. Equitius Marinus Praetoris Quiritibus salutem plurimam dixit:

Marcus Flavius Fides, Gaius Velius Corvus, Lucius Suetonius Nerva,
Marcus Iunius Iulianus, and Paulina Gratidia Equitii are hearby
appointed provincial scribes for America Mediatlantica provincia.

These scribes will be engaged in census duties, attempting to contact
inactive citizens, among other duties. They have all volunteered
their time and resources to this purpose.

Given under my hand in America Mediatlantica Provincia, ante diem XII
Kal. Septembres, MMDCCLVI a.u.c., this year of the consulship of
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus.

(21 Aug 2003 c.e.)

--
ex officio
Gn. Equitius Marinus
Propraetor America Mediatlantica Provincia

Salvete Qvirites! I usually roll out the spelt wheat
dough as thin as possible and cut out disks about the
size of a quarter. Lately I don't even bother baking
the cakes, but let them air dry and store them in a
cool place covered. If you make the disks too thick
they tend not to burn well upon incense charcoal in
ones Turibulum. When I'm ready to offer a cake as an
offering I take a pinch of sea salt or margareta salt
and drop the salt onto the cake. I put beforehand
though one or two small bay laurel leaves upon the lit
charcoal before placing the spelt cake on it. Romans
would traditionally do this, and spelt and salt and
laurel leaves were the earliest known type of an
domestic offering at the Lararium! Valete! Gaivs Ivlianvs

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Very interesting - what does it smell like?


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete Qvirites! I usually roll out the spelt wheat
> dough as thin as possible and cut out disks about the
> size of a quarter. Lately I don't even bother baking
> the cakes, but let them air dry and store them in a
> cool place covered. If you make the disks too thick
> they tend not to burn well upon incense charcoal in
> ones Turibulum. When I'm ready to offer a cake as an
> offering I take a pinch of sea salt or margareta salt
> and drop the salt onto the cake. I put beforehand
> though one or two small bay laurel leaves upon the lit
> charcoal before placing the spelt cake on it. Romans
> would traditionally do this, and spelt and salt and
> laurel leaves were the earliest known type of an
> domestic offering at the Lararium! Valete! Gaivs Ivlianvs
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Salvete Quirites,
I know I am not speaking alone when I state that I would love nothing more than for NR to become not only what it is now, but a place where you can walk, touch, take in with sights, sounds and smells. (Of Jasmine, frankincense and myrrh, not the sewers and other unkind things spoken of by the historians)
To hear children being taught the classic tongues...
In short, NR is very important, very real to me as well as others. I will do everything I can to contribute, I want to some day stand in our own Forum Romanum. If others are just along for the ride, so be it.
"Lead, follow, or get the**** out of the way!
Long live Rome!!



S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caius Minucius,

> I'm getting ready to make a Toga (actually my Fiance, who can sew is
> really going to make it..*g*) and I am wondering which size most Nova
> Romans who have togas use: the smaller Republican or larger Imperial?

I opted for the smaller size when I made mine.

-- Marinus

Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia Aventina Back Alley-ers SPD

In light of the fact that I am an advocate of freedom of speech, I decided
that as part of my function as Tribune, I would take this initiative in
order to help our male citizens express themselves while still within the
guidelines of our Mainlist of Nova Roma. Since discussing their Love
Thruster is the favorite subject of many men, and that they cannot do so on
the mainlist due to its G-rating, here is a list of less-known pseudonyms to
use when referring to the one organ that separates you from the ladies...
For example if you write 'My girlfriend's Juice Squeezer had a five o'clock
shadow and now my Giant Beef Jerky has razor burn', it will not offend the
moral values of any of our citizens, while still allowing you to express
yourself. This list is also valuable to our female citizens as well, if they
(like me) often wish to discuss the functionality of their partner's Wiggly
Worm in public.

So go ahead and post away on the mainlist!

1.Magic wand
2. Cock a doodle do
3. The Main Vein
4. schlong
5. womb broom
6. The Third Leg
7. 10 inches soft
8. The Sledgehammer
9. The Lethal injector
10. Purple Headed Yogurt Slinger
11. Tube Steak
12. The One Eyed Snake
13.Beef bayonet.
14.Pork Sword.
15.Spam Javalin.
16.Blue veined custard gun.
17.Man fat dispenser.
18. scrotum pole (goes in a lady indian's spam wigwam)
19. purple headed womb ferret
20.Lollipop

Salve Harianus,

>I opted for the smaller size when I made mine.
>-- Marinus

For those who didn't see it in June, Marinus has a very nice toga. Other
Senators present at the last Roman Days had nice ones as well). The photos
are still online at http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html if
you'd like to take a look.

Vale,
Diana

Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> writes:

> In light of the fact that I am an advocate of freedom of speech, I decided
> that as part of my function as Tribune, I would take this initiative in
> order to help our male citizens express themselves while still within the
> guidelines of our Mainlist of Nova Roma.

<snip>

While some of those are indeed funny, they're still pretty crude.

Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
mainlist guidelines:

"sexual references must be strictly within the context of an
historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to be made in private."

(EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE posted 02/09/2003)

Yes, I know, I'm a tiresome old fart at times. But we magistrates
should follow the rules, and not encourage others to break them.

-- Marinus

Note: forwarded message attached.


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry all,

Please disregard my previous message. I meant to forward it to one webmail
accounts to store it. I'm going to shut off the 'auto-complete email
address' function so that I don't make this embarrassing mistake again.

Sorry!
Valete,
Diana Moravia

Ave,

You will need to copy and paste, as the ML has been disabled from
receiving attachments.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the honorable tribune Diana Moravia Aventina. Salve.

I believe that you missed a few of the more egocentric titles for the male apendage:

1.The Ninth Wonder of the Western World
2.The Hope of Humanity
3.The Elephant of Love
4.The Staff of Life
5.Jove's Mighty Scepter
6.Cupid's ICBM
7.Apollo's Main Thruster
8.Cockrocket of the Gods
9.Mr. H.(uge) Richard Head

Please feel free to use any of these expressions when talking about this subject to our members. I'm sure that many gentlemen will appreciate the compliment even though they recognize that it is a bit much. Vale.

I wasn't embarassed. Were you embarassed, Stanley? No, Ollie, I wasn't embarrassed a bit.

Can anyone answer this question for me? The eastern empire was always known as 'Rome' up until the very end, correct? If so, did they have a senate? As far as SPQR, was it still used or was it replaced by the more Christian XP as a military standard. I have noted that they kept the aquila.
The western empire is widely covered, but the east isn't. Why is it that Rome is always mentioned as fallen in 476AD when the east survived as Romei? I also read an article recently that claims that the term Byzantium empire is a 'modern' title and the the people of the eastern empire would have never identified themselves as such.
The whole history of the east baffles me. I've heard Barbarosa called 'Roman' emperor, as well as Charlamene, yet, while the Holy Roman Empire was around, so were the Romei in Constantinoble! How did they take having another nation calling themselves 'Roman"? (Kind of like SVR/ NR?)
If the Romei were Roman in essence and spirit, then 'Rome' did not fall until well into the 1400's.
Someone please answer thes questions for me, as I research Byzantium, I become ever more frustrated.
Vale.



S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/21/03 6:52:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:

> It is difficult to visualize just how a campaign against the Parthians with
> C. Julius Caesar in command would have gone. However, it is likely that it
> would have an entirely different outcome than the Crassus expedition.

Would it? The Parthian horse archers are still using camels to supply
arrows, so forming a square to wait them out while they run out of missiles, (the
usual tactics against missile armed armies) wouldn't work. The Parthians were
beaten in two encounters after Carrhae,
one they were retreating from Antioch, and were ambushed by Cassius. However
it doesn't say how large this Parthian force was, and when caught in march
columns, surprised, wouldn't put up much of a fight. And after Carrhae, the
Romans needed to write about any victory in glowing terms. Roman military
historians pretty much discount this as a typical Roman/Parthian battle.
The Taurus in 39 BCE, was the first even clash between Parthians and Romans,
now that the Romans had a handle on Parthian tactics. In order to penetrate
lorica hamatas the horse archers composite bow had to be at 75 yards or less,
and Ventidius had brought along Spanish slingers to keep them at a distance,
since the sling out ranged the effective range of the bow. This forced the
Parthian horse archers to be ineffective, and the lance armed armored cavalry
(Catafractii) were likewise ineffective since the legiones were up on hills, the
Taurus being an area of rough ground.
Gindarus a year later was copy of Taurus. This proved one thing. Parthian
armies in Syria were at a disadvantage.
When Marcus Antonius decided to invade, that's when the trouble started
again. The Romans were leaving rough ground and venturing once again into desert.
The Parthian
king divided his army into three columns of around 20,000 each and using the
riches of old Persia, bribed the Armenians into staying neutral. They then
waited until Antonius advanced towards Seleucius (city on the Tigris) and struck
his supply train with two columns. The Armenians rode away leaving two
legiones to defend, and they were destroyed with the train. This halted the
invasion. The rest of the campaign saw Antonius sticking to high ground and
fighting off attacks. The Parthian King was happy to just harass Antonius. He
realized the civil war in Rome was about to heat up again. By the time
Antonius returned to Syria, it is estimated he lost a third of his 60,000
Romans. This would hurt him in the upcoming Actium campaign.

As for wargaming with Parthians vrs Republican Romans it is hard to recreate
since the Romans are a melee army and the Parthians are a skirmishing army.
Also since the board
causes an unfair, "end of the world" advantage for the Romans, it is hard to
use the traditional Parthian tactics. Battles come down to the Romans
advancing across the board, to pin the Parthians against the edge, while the
Parthians try and shoot down as many Romans as they can, hoping rout the army before
the final decisive melee. When a battle like this is fought it comes down to
the Gods of the dice. If the Parthians shoot better than 40% effectiveness per
turn, they win, if under, they lose.

Q. Fabius Maximus.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/21/03 7:55:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hadrianus@... writes:

> I'm personally leaning towards the Republican toga.
>

I have both.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete!

I understand that there is a series of mystery novels about ancient
Rome titled "Sub Rosa". The term means "under the rose" and refers
to a practice of hanging a rose from the ceiling to indicate that a
meeting was private and secret.

A friend insists that this was an actual historical practice. I
have never read anything about such a practice. Can anyone here
shed any light?

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Salve Marinus,

>Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
>mainlist guidelines:

I admit it Marinus, my post was against list guidelines. But it was
definitely not mean or hateful to anyone. Sorry if I offended you.

Isn't this list under the jurisdiction of the Praetores ? Or did the vetoed
Edictum Aedilicium VII de Actionibus Aediliciis get resubmitted and slip by
while I was away on vacation?

>Yes, I know, I'm a tiresome old fart at times.

Only on the lists. You're fun in person. Jeez...

<But we magistrates
<should follow the rules, and not encourage others to break them.

I agree which is why if the Praetores decide to put me on moderated status I
will understand.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@...> writes:

> Avete!
>
> I understand that there is a series of mystery novels about ancient
> Rome titled "Sub Rosa". The term means "under the rose" and refers
> to a practice of hanging a rose from the ceiling to indicate that a
> meeting was private and secret.
>
> A friend insists that this was an actual historical practice. I
> have never read anything about such a practice. Can anyone here
> shed any light?

Here are a couple of references for you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/02/17.html

Quoting, in part:

Sub rosa comes from the Latin, literally "under the rose,"
from the ancient association of the rose with
confidentiality, the origin of which traces to a famous
story in which Cupid gave Harpocrates, the god of
silence, a rose to bribe him not to betray the confidence
of Venus. Hence the ceilings of Roman
banquet-rooms were decorated with roses to remind guests
that what was spoken sub vino (under the influence of wine)
was also sub rosa.

Also, http://www.word-detective.com/back-k2.html says,
in part:

It was still common in Medieval times to see a rose suspended
over a dining table in France and England to remind guests that
conversations at the table were not to be repeated elsewhere.
Eventually real roses were replaced by plaster ones, and roses
were still commonly found in the plaster work in many Victorian
dining rooms.

-- Marinus

Salvete Omnes,

Salvete Omnes,
I thought I would pass this on. I just received a Spam that appears
to have been harvested from E-mail addresses on the NR website.
I use a service called Emailias that generates a alias E-mail addy
that is tied to whatever webpage it has been made for. Last week I
changed my address in the Album Gentium and put a Emailias
address in place of my real one. Today I got Spam. When I get a
E-mail forwarded through Emailias there is a section on the E-mail
that let me know what webpage the address was given to. I just thought
I let anyone interested know about it. And if you are interested in
Emailias check it out. They have a 60 day free trial
available at http://www.emailias.com

Emailias Info from e-mail:
Original Sender: info@...
Emailias Given to: novaroma.org: Edit your Information

Vale,

Sextus Cornelius Cotta
AIM: Walhalla47
JabberIM: custos@...

In a message dated 8/21/03 1:33:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:

> The whole history of the east baffles me. I've heard Barbarosa called
> 'Roman' emperor, as well as Charlamene, yet, while the Holy Roman Empire was
> around, so were the Romei in Constantinoble! How did they take having another
> nation calling themselves 'Roman"? (Kind of like SVR/ NR?)
> If the Romei were Roman in essence and spirit, then 'Rome' did not fall
> until well into the 1400's.

The Holy Roman Empire was a political entity dreamed up by a Pope, who had
dreams of grandeur. It was maintained as a political entity, though often it
was powerless since the
"emperor" was dependent on his Nobles and not the other way around.
The Byzantine word is a Russian creation, to designate the Later Roman Empire
of the Dark and middle ages, from the Classical one.
The inhabitants of the Empire especially Thrake/Anatolia saw themselves as
the direct descendants of the Empire, and called themselves Rumanoi.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/21/03 1:33:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:

> Can anyone answer this question for me? The eastern empire was always known
> as 'Rome' up until the very end, correct? If so, did they have a senate? As
> far as SPQR, was it still used or was it replaced by the more Christian XP as
> a military standard. I have noted that they kept the aquila.
>

SPQR was used at the start. However by the 600s it was gone. The Roman form
of Senate was still maintained up till the 900s, after that it drifted into
disuse. It actually reverted back into the old Senate of the early Roman
monarchy, the Imperator appointed his advisers and put them into council.
XP was the symbol of the Empire. The military Eagle is used once in a while,
we see it in carvings and on vexiliums, especially during the Nikephorian
military revival.
This very simplified. It actually is more complex. However as this a Roman
list, not Byzantine (which I am a member of two) I thought that the broad
strokes would be appro.
E-mail me off list for greater details if you are still interested.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> writes:

> Salve Marinus,
>
> >Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
> >mainlist guidelines:
>
> I admit it Marinus, my post was against list guidelines. But it was
> definitely not mean or hateful to anyone. Sorry if I offended you.

Yes, I appreciate that it wasn't ill-intentioned. I've also read
your subsequent retraction.

> Isn't this list under the jurisdiction of the Praetores?

It is, yes. But any of us can point out breaches of the posting
guidelines. Certainly as an elected magistrate I've taken an
oath to always act in the best interest of Nova Roma, so silence
when I'm in a position to speak out would be unacceptable to me.

That's not to say I constantly monitor the mailing list. I obviously
don't. But on those occassions where I am able to do something in
a timely manner I will.

> Or did the vetoed
> Edictum Aedilicium VII de Actionibus Aediliciis get resubmitted and slip by
> while I was away on vacation?

No, and you'll recall I imposed my own intercessio against that.

Now, if you want to call me a meddlesome busybody, come right out
and say so. But as I see it, I hold a curule magistracy and I have
taken an oath, and I take those things very seriously.

-- Marinus

Thanks Gnae Equiti!

Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@b...> writes:
>
> > Avete!
> >
> > I understand that there is a series of mystery novels about

ancient

> > Rome titled "Sub Rosa". The term means "under the rose" and

refers

> > to a practice of hanging a rose from the ceiling to indicate

that a

> > meeting was private and secret.
> >
> > A friend insists that this was an actual historical practice. I
> > have never read anything about such a practice. Can anyone here
> > shed any light?
>
> Here are a couple of references for you:
>
>

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/02/17.html

>
> Quoting, in part:
>
> Sub rosa comes from the Latin, literally "under the rose,"
> from the ancient association of the rose with
> confidentiality, the origin of which traces to a famous
> story in which Cupid gave Harpocrates, the god of
> silence, a rose to bribe him not to betray the confidence
> of Venus. Hence the ceilings of Roman
> banquet-rooms were decorated with roses to remind guests
> that what was spoken sub vino (under the influence of wine)
> was also sub rosa.
>
> Also, http://www.word-detective.com/back-k2.html says,
> in part:
>
> It was still common in Medieval times to see a rose suspended
> over a dining table in France and England to remind guests that
> conversations at the table were not to be repeated elsewhere.
> Eventually real roses were replaced by plaster ones, and roses
> were still commonly found in the plaster work in many Victorian
> dining rooms.
>
> -- Marinus

That is exactly my own hopes. In fact next Spring I am starting college and I am taking Latin. I am hoping that in a couple of years (when my daughter is kindergarten age) that I can start teaching her latin as well. I also hope at one point to learn greek as well... though my college up here doesn't offer that. I am just hoping that the college offers more then just a first year latin course.
At any rate start small for those dreams and begin them within your own family seems like a good idea to me. My three year old has been exposed to the worship of the roman gods since she was born. The hope that one day she will be able to live in such a community is a nice dream that I hold onto.

L. Modia Lupa

raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
Salvete Quirites,
I know I am not speaking alone when I state that I would love nothing more than for NR to become not only what it is now, but a place where you can walk, touch, take in with sights, sounds and smells. (Of Jasmine, frankincense and myrrh, not the sewers and other unkind things spoken of by the historians)
To hear children being taught the classic tongues...
In short, NR is very important, very real to me as well as others. I will do everything I can to contribute, I want to some day stand in our own Forum Romanum. If others are just along for the ride, so be it.
"Lead, follow, or get the**** out of the way!
Long live Rome!!



S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes:

Marcus Flavius Fides writes:

>
> Can anyone answer this question for me?
>

I'll try and answer some of your questions.

Yes, there was a senate in Constantinople.

As for 476, that's been a matter of contention for some time.

What actually happened, as far as I can determine from my reading, is that the barbarian chieftain, Odoacer, sent the imperial regalia back to the Eastern Emperor, Zeno, and requested permission to rule Italy in the Emperor's name. Whether contemporaries even noticed the "fall" of 476 CE is doubtful, as barbarian military chieftains had been ruling for some time in the name of puppet emperors. Odoacer simply dropped the fiction of having an emperor entirely.

Historians usually use the term, "Byzantine" (instead of "Eastern Roman") from about 630 CE on, since in the reign of the Emperor Heraclius, Greek became the official language of government (and the Emperor was referred to as, "basileus," Greek for, "king").

Justinian briefly re-conquered large parts of the West in the 6th century CE, but these holdings almost immediately began dropping away. In 800 CE, Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne, King of the Franks, Emperor, which might be understood as a resurrection of the dormant Western title, as emperors had continued to rule in the East. An agreement of sorts was reached with the East in the PAX NICHEPHORI of 811 CE (named for the Eastern Emperor, Nichephorus I), described by historian John Julius Norwich as, "the acceptance, for the first time, of two simultaneous Roman Emperors: Emperors who were not sharing, even theoretically, a single throne for reasons of administrative convenience, according to the system attempted by Diocletian and his successors, but who were genuinely independent of each other, each pursuing his own policies but at the same time fully recognizing and respecting the claims and titles of his counterpart. In doing so, it created the mold in which later medieval Europe was to be formed."

As time wore on, the Empire in the West (which collapsed after Charlemagne, then rose again under Otto I in 962 CE) had less and less to do with the East, and the Holy Roman Empire has its own history, entirely divorced from that of Byzantium.

I highly recommend Norwich's books on Byzantium (there is a 3-volume History of Byzantium, as well as a concise one-volume "shorter history" by the same author).

I hope this was helpful.

Valete.

L. Suetonius Nerva



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Lupa omnesque;
Nova Roma is an attainable goal; it just requires hard work,
talent, ideas, devotion and persistance to make it come true. Roman
practicality.
As for Greek, here is an url for Ancient Greek Tutorials:
http://www.socrates.berkely.edu/~ancgreek/

see you at the ampitheatre, I hear Plautus is on the bill
Vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Samantha Frye <samantha_frye@y...>
wrote:

> That is exactly my own hopes. In fact next Spring I am starting

college and I am taking Latin. I am hoping that in a couple of years
(when my daughter is kindergarten age) that I can start teaching her
latin as well. I also hope at one point to learn greek as well...
though my college up here doesn't offer that. I am just hoping that
the college offers more then just a first year latin course.

> At any rate start small for those dreams and begin them within your

own family seems like a good idea to me. My three year old has been
exposed to the worship of the roman gods since she was born. The hope
that one day she will be able to live in such a community is a nice
dream that I hold onto.

>
> L. Modia Lupa
>
> raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
> I know I am not speaking alone when I state that I would love

nothing more than for NR to become not only what it is now, but a
place where you can walk, touch, take in with sights, sounds and
smells. (Of Jasmine, frankincense and myrrh, not the sewers and other
unkind things spoken of by the historians)

> To hear children being taught the classic tongues...
> In short, NR is very important, very real to me as well as others.

I will do everything I can to contribute, I want to some day stand in
our own Forum Romanum. If others are just along for the ride, so be
it.

> "Lead, follow, or get the**** out of the way!
> Long live Rome!!
>
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marinus,

<It is, yes. But any of us can point out breaches of the posting
<guidelines.

I'm a bit sceptical about that. Can you please quote the passage in the
relevant edict for me?

>Now, if you want to call me a meddlesome busybody, come right out and say

so.

Hey now, those are your words and not mine.

<Certainly as an elected magistrate I've taken an
<oath to always act in the best interest of Nova Roma, so silence
<when I'm in a position to speak out would be unacceptable to me.

I fully support your right to freedom of speech. In the future, I'll
guarantee my own freedom of speech by triple checking that any email that I
send as a Tribune is devoid of all references to male reproductive organs.

Again, sorry all. I was not trying to make fun of Nova Roma with my post. In
fact I take Nova Roma way too seriously which is why I am up at 1:15
emailing instead of being snuggled up in bed next to my boyfriend and his
sledgehammer.

Vale,
Diana

Salvete


As a Lictor of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby witness
and acknowledge the appointment of Gaia Iulia Caesaria
Victorina as Vestal of Nova Roma.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over
the hearth of Vesta, and grant Gaia Iulia Caesaria
Victorina guidance and wisdom for the positive
furtherance of Romanitas. May this sacred bond bring
favor upon our Nation and our Citizens in this coming
year.


Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Lictor - Comitia Curiata

_______________________________________________________________________
Desafio AntiZona - Um emocionante desafio de perguntas e respostas que
te dá um Renault Clio, kits de eletrônicos, computadores, notebooks e
mochilas. Cadastre-se, participe e concorra!
www.cade.com.br/antizona

Salvete, Quiritibus
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:51:02 -0000
From: "Adrian Gunn" <hadrianus@...>
Subject: Toga Question

Salvete,

I'm getting ready to make a Toga (actually my Fiance, who can sew is
really going to make it..*g*) and I am wondering which size most Nova
Romans who have togas use: the smaller Republican or larger Imperial?

L Equitius: I made both of my Togae (one Toga virilis and one Toga
praetexta) Republican size.
See: http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/reenactments/toga.html
for a picture of Marcus Equitius in my Toga virilis and me in the Toga
praetexta.

I'm personally leaning towards the Republican toga.

L Equitius: Well, we are modeling or government after the Rebuplic.

Valete,
L Equitius Cincinnatus

G. Iulius Scaurus Gn. Equitio Marino salutem dicit.

Salve, Gn. Equiti.

I we think we all take the point that D. Moravia's post was in
technical violation of the ML guidelines, but I also think there are
some problematic aspects of the guidelines. Under them, for example,
I could post some lines from Catullus with a literal translation and
some scholarly commentary, and that would pass muster under the
guidelines, even though a literal translation of some passages of
Catullus would make D. Moravia's list look like something Queen
Victoria read from the throne by comparison.

In the final analysis, if Cicero could call M.Antonius a "verpa" in an
oration in the Senate (I shan't use the passage in exemplo about M.
Antonius sodomising Roma in the forum by day, as one of his slaves did
him by night, since it's only attested in one heavily interpolated and
lacuna-riddled manuscript), a Tribuna Plebis can be forgiven for a
misjudgment in posting a silly list of pseudeuphemisms.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve Diana and the Toga Owners,

Great pictures! Would the owners of those togas like to share
the material they used? Were they wool, and if so, what was the
comfort level and specific type of wool used. If not, what did you
use?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Harianus,
>
> >I opted for the smaller size when I made mine.
> >-- Marinus
>
> For those who didn't see it in June, Marinus has a very nice toga.

Other

> Senators present at the last Roman Days had nice ones as well).

The photos

> are still online at

http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html if

> you'd like to take a look.
>
> Vale,
> Diana

Salvete Omnes,

It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time in
coming:

Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!

In April, the Senate approved my purchasing a 10-Acre ranch in Culberson
County Texas, USA. The land has been legally deeded to Nova Roma. This makes our
"micronation" one of the very few modern sovereignty projects to actually own a
piece of real property.

This is the first time in nearly two thousand years that a Republic of the
Roman Senate and People has owned physical land. This is a major milestone that
will lead to a greater physical presence for Nova Roma around the world.

I have created a 'prototype' web page about the land, which I very much hope
will be added prominently to the NR web page in some form:

<A HREF="http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html">http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html</A>

I ask our web team to change the page as appropriate.

This land should prove to be a great recruiting tool for Nova Roma. It is
confirmation that we have the physical means and organization to own something in
common. It is also proof that we are proceeding onward with the goals of
becoming a more "real world" organization throughout our many Provinciae.

It is my sincere hope that this land will be the seed for greater things to
come. We should not stop here - but should continue building our various local
communities. Perhaps we may even be able to obtain more land toward our
"ultimate goal" of a cultural and religious world capital that will be an
international symbol for the best of Roman culture, religion and civilization.

My sincere thanks to the Senate for making this possible to Nova Roma, to the
Citizens of NR for helping to craft ideas toward this "next step," and most
importantly to the Gods for favoring us with this opportunity, and the strength
to build our common culture in the physical world.

AVE NOVA ROMA!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae, Pontifex Maximus and Senator of Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow. I guess some body really DID wave their Magic Wand...and voila!
Land! I'm pleasently suprised. Now we just need folks to organize an
event there so we can congregate and actually take advantage of
having a piece of land.

Varus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time
in
> coming:
>
> Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!

Salve Annia!
I do not know how the fellow Romans made their togae, but the originals
probably were woll in linen-binding (woven in a cross-pattern, always one thread
above the next one, just like linen). The threads for this texile were very
thin, also similar to linen-threads. togae were woven in one piece. To get
the real look of a toge I would recommend that you get a material like that,
especially if you want the fold look like a real toga.
Caius

> Salve Diana and the Toga Owners,
>
> Great pictures! Would the owners of those togas like to share
> the material they used? Were they wool, and if so, what was the
> comfort level and specific type of wool used. If not, what did you
> use?
>
> Vale,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> <diana@p...> wrote:
> > Salve Harianus,
> >
> > >I opted for the smaller size when I made mine.
> > >-- Marinus
> >
> > For those who didn't see it in June, Marinus has a very nice toga.
> Other
> > Senators present at the last Roman Days had nice ones as well).
> The photos
> > are still online at
> http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html if
> > you'd like to take a look.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.


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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Caius Livius Germanicus"
<eq_germanicus@y...> wrote:

> Wow. I guess some body really DID wave their Magic Wand...and voila!
> Land! I'm pleasently suprised. Now we just need folks to organize
>an event there so we can congregate and actually take advantage of
> having a piece of land.

It is a momentous event in the history of Nova Roma but it isn't
magic, it is the product of a lot of the time, effort and money of
Marcus Cassius Iulianus.

Thank you Marcus Cassius! Ave!!


Palladius

Salve Gn. Equiti Marine,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@p...> writes:
> > >Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
> > >mainlist guidelines:
> >
> > I admit it Marinus, my post was against list guidelines. But it
> >was
> > definitely not mean or hateful to anyone. Sorry if I offended you.
>
> Yes, I appreciate that it wasn't ill-intentioned. I've also read
> your subsequent retraction.
>
> > Isn't this list under the jurisdiction of the Praetores?
>
> It is, yes. But any of us can point out breaches of the posting
> guidelines. Certainly as an elected magistrate I've taken an
> oath to always act in the best interest of Nova Roma, so silence
> when I'm in a position to speak out would be unacceptable to me.

Certainly anyone has the right to speak out here but before you do so
perhaps you should ask yourself if you SHOULD speak out and whether
Nova Roma is at all served by your doing so.

We had an expression in the Marine Corps, Top, perhaps you remember
it: "praise in public, punish (or criticize) in private." You seem on
a regular basis to publicly take people to task on this list in
direct contradiction to that maxim, either for going "off-topic"
(there is no such thing on this list) or for the way they express
themselves. Criticism like you made today would have been better done
privately. Diana Moravia's posting of her list with such terms
as "schlong" was indeed inappropriate, but making a public spectacle
of it as you have was not helpful. If you were uncomfortable you
should have contacted her and pointed out what was wrong, or
contacted the praetors.

I have made the same mistake in the past on occasion that you did and
received the same criticism you are receiving now.

Reluctantly I am breaking the "public private" aphorism because you
have made this a public issue and have said you speak as a
magistrate. You do not. We as *praetors* deal with these issues
privately, directly with the individual involved (3 or 4 times in the
last week alone). If you have a complaint, contact the individual or
the praetors. Chances are we have already handled the situation,
including this one. So please leave the list moderation to the
praetores and our staff.

You are of course free to continue your public lectures of people on
this list, just remember it is not in an official capacity and that
no one is obliged to listen to you.

If you disagree with how we handle the list, you may contact us
privately and of course run for praetor yourself in the fall. In the
meanwhile...

> That's not to say I constantly monitor the mailing list. I
>obviously
> don't. But on those occassions where I am able to do something in
>a timely manner I will.

Fine, just remember you do it as an ordinary citizen--no one has to
listen to you. The list is outside your jurisdiction as curule
aedile.

> > Or did the vetoed
> > Edictum Aedilicium VII de Actionibus Aediliciis get resubmitted

and slip by

> > while I was away on vacation?
>
> No, and you'll recall I imposed my own intercessio against that.

This is a side issue but your veto was after the tribunes issued
their veto so your veto was a moot gesture. Besides, you knew there
were praetorian and consular vetoes hanging over your head ready to
be imposed anyway.

> Now, if you want to call me a meddlesome busybody, come right out
> and say so. But as I see it, I hold a curule magistracy and I have
> taken an oath, and I take those things very seriously.

Ok, fine, I will say it: I think perhaps you take yourself a little
too seriously sometimes and yes, your lecturing makes you appear like
a meddlesome busybody--not a reputation you want. Lighten up and keep
a little perspective. That magistracy and a dime still won't get you
a cup of coffee.

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetor

Salve!
This is a rather intriguing venture. However, I have a feeling that some of the more ignorant people might inquire about Nova Roma, and (after hearing very little about it) will make assumptions and so on, and NR may be seen by said peoples as almost cult like.
Nevertheless, I'm impressed and somewhat amused that land has been seen and conqured.

In pax,
cory

----- Original Message -----
From: cassius622@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com ; ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com ; NovaRomaProvinciae@yahoogroups.com ; NovaRomaWebSites@yahoogroups.com ; NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com ; NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com ; NRLandProject@yahoogroups.com ; SodalitasMilitarium@yahoogroups.com ; SodalitasVirtutis@yahoogroups.com ; Egressus@yahoogroups.com ; America_Austroccidentalis@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ANNOUNCEMENT - NOVA ROMA HAS LAND! :)


Salvete Omnes,

It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time in
coming:

Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!

In April, the Senate approved my purchasing a 10-Acre ranch in Culberson
County Texas, USA. The land has been legally deeded to Nova Roma. This makes our
"micronation" one of the very few modern sovereignty projects to actually own a
piece of real property.

This is the first time in nearly two thousand years that a Republic of the
Roman Senate and People has owned physical land. This is a major milestone that
will lead to a greater physical presence for Nova Roma around the world.

I have created a 'prototype' web page about the land, which I very much hope
will be added prominently to the NR web page in some form:

<A HREF="http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html">http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html</A>

I ask our web team to change the page as appropriate.

This land should prove to be a great recruiting tool for Nova Roma. It is
confirmation that we have the physical means and organization to own something in
common. It is also proof that we are proceeding onward with the goals of
becoming a more "real world" organization throughout our many Provinciae.

It is my sincere hope that this land will be the seed for greater things to
come. We should not stop here - but should continue building our various local
communities. Perhaps we may even be able to obtain more land toward our
"ultimate goal" of a cultural and religious world capital that will be an
international symbol for the best of Roman culture, religion and civilization.

My sincere thanks to the Senate for making this possible to Nova Roma, to the
Citizens of NR for helping to craft ideas toward this "next step," and most
importantly to the Gods for favoring us with this opportunity, and the strength
to build our common culture in the physical world.

AVE NOVA ROMA!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae, Pontifex Maximus and Senator of Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
> mainlist guidelines:
>
> "sexual references must be strictly within the context of an
> historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to be made in private."
>
> (EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE posted 02/09/2003)
>
> Yes, I know, I'm a tiresome old fart at times. But we magistrates
> should follow the rules, and not encourage others to break them.

I believe that the word "intentional" is implied in the above
passage. That is the only common-sense interpretation of the rule. It
has already been clarified that the poster's mishandling of the
software was to blame, hence no willful intent of breaking the rules
was present. Accordingly, the issue should be dropped.

But if the question of intent is not taken into account, then the law
is being judged in a strict and literal fashion without any further
additions that common-sense might fill in. Fine. But without allowing
for logical interpretations to fill in the uncertain areas--then
other phrases in the guideline are equally uncertain and can raise
valid doubts whether she even technically violated the law in the
first place. One can't rigidly adhere to the wording in one part of
the edict, and then choose to impose a lax interpretation on the
other parts.

For example, one could argue that references to the male pudenda,
i.e. the membrum virile, i.e. the "Mr One-Eye" as the poster's
original message put it, are not sexual references, but rather
anatomical references that relate only indirectly to sex--in a strict
reading of the passage. A sexual reference is, to speak literally, a
reference to an act of sexual congress; but the membrum virile, while
having certain functions that strongly relate to various sex acts
that can be performed on women, or other men, or even beasts--as the
owner may be inclined, is not in itself a sex act, nor are all usages
of said member related to a sex act. I happen (unfortunately) to
urinate out of mine much more frequently than I engage in sexual acts
with it; and consequently its function as a fluid removal system
would seem to play a greater role in its presence on the male body
than the secondary purpose of reproduction. A person reading this may
say, "but the member referenced by her post CAN be used in sexual
acts" and then think that resolves the uncertainities of the wording.
However, I say to that person that a club can be used to murder, but
to reference a club is not to reference, directly, the act of murder;
nor is referencing a tool that MAY be used to build a house, to be
considered an actual reference to house-building; nor yet is any
allusion to the pole with which a Venetian gondolier may steer his
gondola down the watery byways of Venice to be construed as an
allusion to taking a boat ride in an Italian city. These are all
leaps that can logically be made, but for the sake of a literal
reading, they must not.

I hope this post makes the difficulties in judging Diana's
culpability under the law more apparent to everyone. Thank you for
your time.

Signed,
Cn. Rusticus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "The Horace's Villa Project":

http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/horaces-villa/

This site, a collaboration of the American Academy in Rome, UCLA,, and
the Soprintendenza Archeologica per il Lazio, provides an overview of
the joint excavations primarily aimed at a child audience. Bernard
Frischer's and Monica De Simone's interim report, "New Excavations at
Horace's Villa, 1997-2001," also on the site, is more appropriate for
serious amateur and professional archaeologists interested in the project.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus P. Cassiae et C. Livio Varo Germanico salutem dicit.

Salvete, P. Cassia et C. Livi.

Thank you for the kind words.

Pliny provided the location of the villa ad gallinas albas (Nat. Hist.
15.137) at the ninth milestone on the Via Flaminia (and the milestones
have been recovered archaeologically). Within the last year there has
also been an epigraph recovered there which refers to a slave
manumitted by Livia, although it hasn't been published yet. I think
this makes it a fair bet that it was a part of Livia's dowry.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete omnes,

First a note in English: This is only the official translation of the
original message into German, so you don't need to read on, if you
don't want to!!!!

Salvete Germani,

cassius622@... schrieb die folgende Meldung:

Salvete Omnes,

Es ist mir eine Freude, die folgende Mitteilung zu machen, welche schon
so lange brauchte, bis sie endlich herausgegeben werden durfte:

Nova Roma besitzt nun offiziell ein echtes St�ck Land!

Im April hat der Senat mir erlaubt, eine 10-Aren grosse Ranch in
Culberson County Texas, USA zu kaufen. Das Land wurde legal auf Nova
Roma eingeschrieben. Das macht unsere "Micronation" zu einem von sehr
wenigen modernen Eigenst�ndigkeitsprojekten, welches wirklich ein
echtes St�ck Land besitzt.

Dies ist das erste Mal seit beinahe 2000 Jahren, dass eine Republik des
r�mischen Senates und des Volkes echtes Land besitzt. Dies ist ein
Meilenstein, der zu gr�sserer physischer Pr�senz von Nova Roma in der
ganzen Welt f�hren wird.

Ich habe eine 'Prototyp' Website �ber das Land gestaltet, welche
hoffentlich einen prominenten Platz auf den NR Websites erhalten wird:

http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html

Ich bitte unser Webteam die Seiten entsprechend anzupassen.

Dieses Land sollte sich als tolles Rekrutierungsmittel f�r Nova Roma
erweisen. Es ist der Beweis, dass wir die physischen Mittel und die
Organisation besitzen, zusammen etwas zu besitzen. Es ist ebenfalls ein
Beweis, dass wir mit unseren Zielen, eine 'reale' Organisation zu
werden, auch in unseren Provinzen immer weiter kommen.

Ich hoffe aufrichtig, dass dieses Land der Anstoss f�r gr�ssere
kommende Dinge sein wird. Wir sollten hier nicht aufh�ren - sondern
weiterhin unsere verschiedenen lokalen Gruppen aufbauen. Vielleicht
k�nnen wir sogar noch mehr Land kaufen, um unser Fernziel, eine
kulturelle und religi�se Welthauptstadt mit internationalem Symbolwert
f�r die beste r�mische Kultur, Regligion und Zivilisation, zu
erreichen.

Meinen grossen Dank an den Senat, der dies f�r Nova Roma m�glich
gemacht hat, an die B�rger von NR f�r die Hilfe Ideen zu diesem
'n�chsten Schritt' zu sammeln, und vor allem an die G�tter, welche
wohlwollend auf diese M�glichkeit geschaut haben und die uns die Kraft
gaben unsere gemeinsame Kultur in der physischen Welt zu etablieren.

AVE NOVA ROMA!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae, Pontifex Maximus and Senator of Nova Roma

-----------


=====

Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


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The link didnt' work, but I appreciate it. As for hard work, it takes more then a bit of work to scare me off LOL, in fact I am emersed in research regarding the goddess Diana,as my dream also includes establishing an actual physical temple to my goddess.
It doesn't seem like it happens all that fast but with alot of hard work the results more then make up for it :)

L.Modia Lupa

rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:
Salvete Lupa omnesque;
Nova Roma is an attainable goal; it just requires hard work,
talent, ideas, devotion and persistance to make it come true. Roman
practicality.
As for Greek, here is an url for Ancient Greek Tutorials:
http://www.socrates.berkely.edu/~ancgreek/

see you at the ampitheatre, I hear Plautus is on the bill
Vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Samantha Frye <samantha_frye@y...>
wrote:

> That is exactly my own hopes. In fact next Spring I am starting

college and I am taking Latin. I am hoping that in a couple of years
(when my daughter is kindergarten age) that I can start teaching her
latin as well. I also hope at one point to learn greek as well...
though my college up here doesn't offer that. I am just hoping that
the college offers more then just a first year latin course.

> At any rate start small for those dreams and begin them within your

own family seems like a good idea to me. My three year old has been
exposed to the worship of the roman gods since she was born. The hope
that one day she will be able to live in such a community is a nice
dream that I hold onto.

>
> L. Modia Lupa
>
> raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
> I know I am not speaking alone when I state that I would love

nothing more than for NR to become not only what it is now, but a
place where you can walk, touch, take in with sights, sounds and
smells. (Of Jasmine, frankincense and myrrh, not the sewers and other
unkind things spoken of by the historians)

> To hear children being taught the classic tongues...
> In short, NR is very important, very real to me as well as others.

I will do everything I can to contribute, I want to some day stand in
our own Forum Romanum. If others are just along for the ride, so be
it.

> "Lead, follow, or get the**** out of the way!
> Long live Rome!!
>
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time

in

> coming:
>
> Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!
>
> In April, the Senate approved my purchasing a 10-Acre ranch in

Culberson

> County Texas, USA. The land has been legally deeded to Nova Roma.

This makes our

> "micronation" one of the very few modern sovereignty projects to

actually own a

> piece of real property.

I can remember 5 years ago Claudia Aprica, the former proconsul of
Provincia Britannia, dreaming of this moment, and referring to her
vision as "cloud cuckooland" and "improbable." But it appears that it
has come true. Congratulations, NR.

Indeed it is wonderful news! This is a large step in the right direction, and brings alot of hope to those such as myself who desire someday to arrange local communities within nearby general areas. Hopefully you can put the land to use soon :)

L.Modia Lupa

Caius Livius Germanicus <eq_germanicus@...> wrote:
Wow. I guess some body really DID wave their Magic Wand...and voila!
Land! I'm pleasently suprised. Now we just need folks to organize an
event there so we can congregate and actually take advantage of
having a piece of land.

Varus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time
in
> coming:
>
> Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!


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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Madcap" <barc@a...> wrote:

> Salve!
> This is a rather intriguing venture. However, I have a feeling

that some of the more ignorant people might inquire about Nova Roma,
and (after hearing very little about it) will make assumptions and so
on, and NR may be seen by said peoples as almost cult like.

> Nevertheless, I'm impressed and somewhat amused that land has been

seen and conqured.

>
> In pax,
> cory

Salve,

It seems unlikely that we'd be considered "cult like" since we're not
setting up some kind of closed 'utopian community' on the land. A
bare piece of property in its natural state is hardly threatening.

Non-profit organizations buy land and buildings all the time of
course. So long as we simply consider the land we own to
be 'symbolic', and continue to behave like the reasonable people we
in fact are, I think we'll be fine. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Salve Gnae Equiti, Propraetor.

> These scribes will be engaged in census duties,
> attempting to contact
> inactive citizens, among other duties. They have
> all volunteered
> their time and resources to this purpose.

Section 5.IV.B of the Lex Fabia de Censo reads:

B. Surface mail. "Inactive" Citizens who are
unreachable by email shall receive a mailing. This
shall be done on the provincial level by Governors and
legati under the supervision of the Censors. In those
Provinciae where there aare not a Governor and in
those areas not included in a Provincia yet the
Censors shall ask a Governor of a Provincia as near as
possible to where that "inactive" Citizen lives.

My reading of this text is that only governors and
appointed legates may enagage in the census duty of
contacting inactive citizens, which necessitates
access to private contact information. Although the
Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus states that provincial
governors may, if necessary, disclose such information
to 'lawfully apointed assistants', I do find it
questionable appointing five temporary scribes solely
for this purpose. I believe that, as governors, we
must exercise all due caution with regards to whom we
disclose such information.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
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Salvete,

Congratulations to NR on this acquisition! Those in the Province
need to organize some sort of gathering to bless the land now. Very
exciting.
Valete,
Helena Galeria

Salve Marce Juliane Cassi!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time
in
> coming:
>
> Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!

Wow, I'm floored! I must admit I never thought we'd see this happen
so soon! You know, you are very good at keeping secrets - given the
fact that we were sitting across from each other just a week ago and
you gave absolutely not hint something like this was in the works!
This is an amazing moment in NR's history, congratulations Marce
Juliane. Now we just need to get an augur down there to establish the
pomerium *g*. This could even be considered NR's first Colonia!

Ave Nova Roma! Ave Marce Juliane Cassi!

Bene vale in pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

I have heard the term Sub Rosa used to imply something secret but
other than that:
Sub rosa comes from the Latin, literally "under the rose," from the
ancient association of the rose with confidentiality, the origin of
which traces to a famous story in which Cupid gave Harpocrates, the
god of silence, a rose to bribe him not to betray the confidence of
Venus. Hence the ceilings of Roman banquet-rooms were decorated with
roses to remind guests that what was spoken sub vino (under the
influence of wine) was also sub rosa.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:

> Avete!
>
> I understand that there is a series of mystery novels about ancient
> Rome titled "Sub Rosa". The term means "under the rose" and refers
> to a practice of hanging a rose from the ceiling to indicate that a
> meeting was private and secret.
>
> A friend insists that this was an actual historical practice. I
> have never read anything about such a practice. Can anyone here
> shed any light?
>
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas

AVE NOVA ROMA!

Colour me red.
I did not think to ever see this become a reality; I am rightly
chagrined.
The possibilities for the future are limitless.
Congratulations.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my pleasure to make an announcement that has been a long time
in
> coming:
>
> Nova Roma now officially owns a parcel of physical land!
>
> In April, the Senate approved my purchasing a 10-Acre ranch in
Culberson
> County Texas, USA. The land has been legally deeded to Nova Roma.
This makes our
> "micronation" one of the very few modern sovereignty projects to
actually own a
> piece of real property.
>
> This is the first time in nearly two thousand years that a Republic
of the
> Roman Senate and People has owned physical land. This is a major
milestone that
> will lead to a greater physical presence for Nova Roma around the
world.
>
> I have created a 'prototype' web page about the land, which I very
much hope
> will be added prominently to the NR web page in some form:
>
> <A
HREF="http://www.juliansociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html">http://www.julia
nsociety.org/NovaRomaLand.html</A>
>
> I ask our web team to change the page as appropriate.
>
> This land should prove to be a great recruiting tool for Nova Roma.
It is
> confirmation that we have the physical means and organization to
own something in
> common. It is also proof that we are proceeding onward with the
goals of
> becoming a more "real world" organization throughout our many
Provinciae.
>
> It is my sincere hope that this land will be the seed for greater
things to
> come. We should not stop here - but should continue building our
various local
> communities. Perhaps we may even be able to obtain more land toward
our
> "ultimate goal" of a cultural and religious world capital that will
be an
> international symbol for the best of Roman culture, religion and
civilization.
>
> My sincere thanks to the Senate for making this possible to Nova
Roma, to the
> Citizens of NR for helping to craft ideas toward this "next step,"
and most
> importantly to the Gods for favoring us with this opportunity, and
the strength
> to build our common culture in the physical world.
>
> AVE NOVA ROMA!!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pater Patriae, Pontifex Maximus and Senator of Nova Roma
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Disregard this - I noticed Marinus already posted the same info,
sorry for the redundancy.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:

> I have heard the term Sub Rosa used to imply something secret but
> other than that:
> Sub rosa comes from the Latin, literally "under the rose," from the
> ancient association of the rose with confidentiality, the origin of
> which traces to a famous story in which Cupid gave Harpocrates, the
> god of silence, a rose to bribe him not to betray the confidence of
> Venus. Hence the ceilings of Roman banquet-rooms were decorated

with

> roses to remind guests that what was spoken sub vino (under the
> influence of wine) was also sub rosa.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> > Avete!
> >
> > I understand that there is a series of mystery novels about

ancient

> > Rome titled "Sub Rosa". The term means "under the rose" and

refers

> > to a practice of hanging a rose from the ceiling to indicate that

a

> > meeting was private and secret.
> >
> > A friend insists that this was an actual historical practice. I
> > have never read anything about such a practice. Can anyone here
> > shed any light?
> >
> > Valete,
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas

Oh, Good! :-)

in pax,
cory

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Cassius Julianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 7:16 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - NOVA ROMA HAS LAND! :)


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Madcap" <barc@a...> wrote:
> Salve!
> This is a rather intriguing venture. However, I have a feeling
that some of the more ignorant people might inquire about Nova Roma,
and (after hearing very little about it) will make assumptions and so
on, and NR may be seen by said peoples as almost cult like.
> Nevertheless, I'm impressed and somewhat amused that land has been
seen and conqured.
>
> In pax,
> cory

Salve,

It seems unlikely that we'd be considered "cult like" since we're not
setting up some kind of closed 'utopian community' on the land. A
bare piece of property in its natural state is hardly threatening.

Non-profit organizations buy land and buildings all the time of
course. So long as we simply consider the land we own to
be 'symbolic', and continue to behave like the reasonable people we
in fact are, I think we'll be fine. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---
We b**tch way too much to be remotely culty; think Israeli Knesset
crossed with Vegas.
Vale, Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cassius Julianus"
<cassius622@a...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Madcap" <barc@a...> wrote:
> > Salve!
> > This is a rather intriguing venture. However, I have a

feeling

> that some of the more ignorant people might inquire about Nova

Roma,

> and (after hearing very little about it) will make assumptions and

so

> on, and NR may be seen by said peoples as almost cult like.
> > Nevertheless, I'm impressed and somewhat amused that land has

been

> seen and conqured.
> >
> > In pax,
> > cory
>
> Salve,
>
> It seems unlikely that we'd be considered "cult like" since we're

not

> setting up some kind of closed 'utopian community' on the land. A
> bare piece of property in its natural state is hardly threatening.
>
> Non-profit organizations buy land and buildings all the time of
> course. So long as we simply consider the land we own to
> be 'symbolic', and continue to behave like the reasonable people we
> in fact are, I think we'll be fine. :)
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus

Ecastor! This is what happens when I go away on holiday for a week --
something wonderfully exciting happens!

Felicitatio!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/

Salvete Omnes,

Now that Nova Roma has some land, I thought y'all
might be intrested in the climate in Culberson County.
I found this on the weather chanel's website.

http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/monthly/USTX1396

Oh in case anyone is feeling generous there is another
parcel of land near the one Marcus Cassius donated. ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2342293035&category=15841

Actually I included this ad has because it some
general information about the area.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Salvete,

http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html
SO, ... when will all, or some of these pictures, and others, be posted to
the Pinacotheca (Photo Gallery) http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/ of the
website?


________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:28:11 -0000
From: "aoctaviaindagatrix" <bryanta003@...>
Subject: Re: Toga Question

Salve Diana and the Toga Owners,

Great pictures! Would the owners of those togas like to share
the material they used?

L Equitius: Mine are made of Wool. Yes, they're hot when it's hot, but warm
when it's not.

Were they wool, and if so, what was the
comfort level and specific type of wool used. If not, what did you
use?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Harianus,
>
> >I opted for the smaller size when I made mine.
> >-- Marinus
>
> For those who didn't see it in June, Marinus has a very nice toga.

Other

> Senators present at the last Roman Days had nice ones as well).

The photos

> are still online at

http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html if

> you'd like to take a look.
>
> Vale,
> Diana

Valete, L Equitius

Salvete Quiritibus

Should anyone have had their appetite whetted by the following discussion, I
recommend the following.

"Priapea: Poems for a Phallic God", Trans. & Ed. by W.H. Parker, ISBN
0-7099-4099-8

"The Priapus Poems", Trans. w/intro by Richard W. Hooper, ISBN 0-252-06752-5

Ol' Priapus does deserve his due from time to time. He is certainly honored
on our lands and he's taken good care of my flora.

Also,
"Eros in Antiquity", photographs by Antonia Mulas, ISBN 0-913568-29-5
(A very nice coffee table book for open minded people)

BTW It's very good to see you back in the Forum, Rustice! How's the Turnip
patch these days?

Valete, L Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:22:49 -0000
From: "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@...>
Subject: Re: Main List tips and tricks Part I

G. Iulius Scaurus Gn. Equitio Marino salutem dicit.

Salve, Gn. Equiti.

I we think we all take the point that D. Moravia's post was in
technical violation of the ML guidelines, but I also think there are
some problematic aspects of the guidelines. Under them, for example,
I could post some lines from Catullus with a literal translation and
some scholarly commentary, and that would pass muster under the
guidelines, even though a literal translation of some passages of
Catullus would make D. Moravia's list look like something Queen
Victoria read from the throne by comparison.

In the final analysis, if Cicero could call M.Antonius a "verpa" in an
oration in the Senate (I shan't use the passage in exemplo about M.
Antonius sodomising Roma in the forum by day, as one of his slaves did
him by night, since it's only attested in one heavily interpolated and
lacuna-riddled manuscript), a Tribuna Plebis can be forgiven for a
misjudgment in posting a silly list of pseudeuphemisms.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 04:50:17 -0000
From: "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...>
Subject: To Marinus, Re: Your Response to D. Moravia's Tips and Tricks


Salve Gn. Equiti Marine,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@p...> writes:
> > >Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
> > >mainlist guidelines:
> >
> > I admit it Marinus, my post was against list guidelines. But it
> >was
> > definitely not mean or hateful to anyone. Sorry if I offended you.
>
> Yes, I appreciate that it wasn't ill-intentioned. I've also read
> your subsequent retraction.
>
> > Isn't this list under the jurisdiction of the Praetores?
>
> It is, yes. But any of us can point out breaches of the posting
> guidelines. Certainly as an elected magistrate I've taken an
> oath to always act in the best interest of Nova Roma, so silence
> when I'm in a position to speak out would be unacceptable to me.

Certainly anyone has the right to speak out here but before you do so
perhaps you should ask yourself if you SHOULD speak out and whether
Nova Roma is at all served by your doing so.

We had an expression in the Marine Corps, Top, perhaps you remember
it: "praise in public, punish (or criticize) in private." You seem on
a regular basis to publicly take people to task on this list in
direct contradiction to that maxim, either for going "off-topic"
(there is no such thing on this list) or for the way they express
themselves. Criticism like you made today would have been better done
privately. Diana Moravia's posting of her list with such terms
as "schlong" was indeed inappropriate, but making a public spectacle
of it as you have was not helpful. If you were uncomfortable you
should have contacted her and pointed out what was wrong, or
contacted the praetors.

I have made the same mistake in the past on occasion that you did and
received the same criticism you are receiving now.

Reluctantly I am breaking the "public private" aphorism because you
have made this a public issue and have said you speak as a
magistrate. You do not. We as *praetors* deal with these issues
privately, directly with the individual involved (3 or 4 times in the
last week alone). If you have a complaint, contact the individual or
the praetors. Chances are we have already handled the situation,
including this one. So please leave the list moderation to the
praetores and our staff.

You are of course free to continue your public lectures of people on
this list, just remember it is not in an official capacity and that
no one is obliged to listen to you.

If you disagree with how we handle the list, you may contact us
privately and of course run for praetor yourself in the fall. In the
meanwhile...

> That's not to say I constantly monitor the mailing list. I
>obviously
> don't. But on those occassions where I am able to do something in
>a timely manner I will.

Fine, just remember you do it as an ordinary citizen--no one has to
listen to you. The list is outside your jurisdiction as curule
aedile.

> > Or did the vetoed
> > Edictum Aedilicium VII de Actionibus Aediliciis get resubmitted

and slip by

> > while I was away on vacation?
>
> No, and you'll recall I imposed my own intercessio against that.

This is a side issue but your veto was after the tribunes issued
their veto so your veto was a moot gesture. Besides, you knew there
were praetorian and consular vetoes hanging over your head ready to
be imposed anyway.

> Now, if you want to call me a meddlesome busybody, come right out
> and say so. But as I see it, I hold a curule magistracy and I have
> taken an oath, and I take those things very seriously.

Ok, fine, I will say it: I think perhaps you take yourself a little
too seriously sometimes and yes, your lecturing makes you appear like
a meddlesome busybody--not a reputation you want. Lighten up and keep
a little perspective. That magistracy and a dime still won't get you
a cup of coffee.

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetor

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 04:42:27 -0000
From: "wyrd_oft_nareth_onfaege_eorl"
<wyrd_oft_nareth_onfaege_eorl@...>
Subject: Re: In defense of Diana

> Furthermore, the mere posting of the list is a violation of the
> mainlist guidelines:
>
> "sexual references must be strictly within the context of an
> historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to be made in private."
>
> (EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE posted 02/09/2003)
>
> Yes, I know, I'm a tiresome old fart at times. But we magistrates
> should follow the rules, and not encourage others to break them.

I believe that the word "intentional" is implied in the above
passage. That is the only common-sense interpretation of the rule. It
has already been clarified that the poster's mishandling of the
software was to blame, hence no willful intent of breaking the rules
was present. Accordingly, the issue should be dropped.

But if the question of intent is not taken into account, then the law
is being judged in a strict and literal fashion without any further
additions that common-sense might fill in. Fine. But without allowing
for logical interpretations to fill in the uncertain areas--then
other phrases in the guideline are equally uncertain and can raise
valid doubts whether she even technically violated the law in the
first place. One can't rigidly adhere to the wording in one part of
the edict, and then choose to impose a lax interpretation on the
other parts.

For example, one could argue that references to the male pudenda,
i.e. the membrum virile, i.e. the "Mr One-Eye" as the poster's
original message put it, are not sexual references, but rather
anatomical references that relate only indirectly to sex--in a strict
reading of the passage. A sexual reference is, to speak literally, a
reference to an act of sexual congress; but the membrum virile, while
having certain functions that strongly relate to various sex acts
that can be performed on women, or other men, or even beasts--as the
owner may be inclined, is not in itself a sex act, nor are all usages
of said member related to a sex act. I happen (unfortunately) to
urinate out of mine much more frequently than I engage in sexual acts
with it; and consequently its function as a fluid removal system
would seem to play a greater role in its presence on the male body
than the secondary purpose of reproduction. A person reading this may
say, "but the member referenced by her post CAN be used in sexual
acts" and then think that resolves the uncertainities of the wording.
However, I say to that person that a club can be used to murder, but
to reference a club is not to reference, directly, the act of murder;
nor is referencing a tool that MAY be used to build a house, to be
considered an actual reference to house-building; nor yet is any
allusion to the pole with which a Venetian gondolier may steer his
gondola down the watery byways of Venice to be construed as an
allusion to taking a boat ride in an Italian city. These are all
leaps that can logically be made, but for the sake of a literal
reading, they must not.

I hope this post makes the difficulties in judging Diana's
culpability under the law more apparent to everyone. Thank you for
your time.

Signed,
Cn. Rusticus

Salve Cincinnatus,

>http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html
>SO, ... when will all, or some of these pictures, and others, be posted to
>the Pinacotheca (Photo Gallery) http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/ of the
>website?

Thanks for the reminder!

Salvete everyone else,
Does anyone have any photos form the last Roman Days that are scanned in and
that I could include with my Roman Days photo's on the Gens Moravia site?
If so, send them to me diana@...

Salve Titus Octavius Pius,
Could you make a link from NR to
http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/RomanDays.html ? I can write up a quick
intro text if you'd like. Or I can just zip up the photos and mail them to
you and you can make a new page. It's up to you.

Valete,
Diana

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "The McMaster Column of Trajan Project":

http://cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/index.html

This site, maintained by McMaster University, provides introductory
essays on the Column of Trajan, an extraordinary database of more than
500 images of the reliefs on the column (viewable in three
resolutions), indices to the essays and database, and a search engine.
I highly recommend the excellent work found on this site.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS TRIBVNO DIANAE MORAVIAE AVENTINAE S.P.D.

AVE DIANA,

Please forgive my belated reply.

In the intervening period, honourable SENATORES LVCIVS CORNELVS
SVLLA FELIX ET QVINTVS FABIVS MAXIMVS have also been kind enough to
give me some background history to this particular parting of the
ways.

It may well not be possible nor perhaps even desirable in this
particular case to pursue such a union. However, I am heartened that
we all would appear to subscribe to the ideal of uniting all ROMANI
where we can under not only our RES PVBLICA but IMHO THE RES PVBLICA.

I do believe that NR is the modern manifestation and continuum of
ROMA AETERNA. That is why I would ultimately like to see all
legions and Roman societies throughout the world of whatever hue
united under NOVA ROMA.

Anyway, honourable TRIBVNVS I fear I have taken up too much of your
time! LOL

VALE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANI

VERITAS LVX MEA

"PATRIA EST COMMVNIS OMNIVM PARENS" ----- CICERO





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS,
>
> >Is there no rapproachement for NR and SVR? Surely we should seek

to

> >unite all ROMANI wherever they may be. Perhaps I'm being naive or
> >idealistic but shouldn't we actively seek to bring as many ROMANI
> >under the citizenship of the RES PVBLICA?
>
> I agree, but the SVR people left because they were not happy here

and so I

> doubt that they consider our RES PVBLICA as the *one and only* RES

PVBLICA.

> Some SVR members are also citizens of Nova Roma and in fact never

left us.

> That said, my Provincia of Gallia has been the most negatively

affected by

> the SVR so until they disband (which I doubt will ever happen), I

am against

> magistrates of the SVR holding any elected or appointed office in

NR due to

> conflicts of interests.
>
> My apologies in advance to Draco and any of the fine citizens of

NR who are

> also SVR members. My opinion is a political one and nothing

personal against

> any of you.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia

Salvete omnes cives argentini.
Les recuerdo que este mes estamos discutiendo algunos temas en la
lista provincial http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina .
I remind you that currently we are discussing some issues at the
provincial mailing list
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina .
Bene valete
L. Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

Salve Cincinnatus,

Thanks for the book list. I have two phallic worship books at home and a
number on Sex/Love in the Ancient World, but not the ones mentioned on your
list.

All silly references to Jack Hammers aside, I've read that in Ancient Rome,
citizens used to wear a phallus amulet around their neck for good luck and
against the evil eye. They were also placed on entranceways for protection
and on chariots of victorius generals for good luck.

I have an anatomically correct Frey amulet which was given to me by
Mercurius Apollonius a while back and I have to say it is an eye opener.

Vale,
Diana

Salve!
The frequently found phallus amuletts are only in connection with horsegear.
The only item actually worn as an amulett that depicts a phallus I know of,
is from third century Sicily, and only depicts it together with a lot of
other things protecting against the evil eye. So if you don't want to appear to
be a horse, don't wear it. The thing about entranceways and horsewagons is
correct.
Caius.

> Salve Cincinnatus,
>
> Thanks for the book list. I have two phallic worship books at home and a
> number on Sex/Love in the Ancient World, but not the ones mentioned on
> your
> list.
>
> All silly references to Jack Hammers aside, I've read that in Ancient
> Rome,
> citizens used to wear a phallus amulet around their neck for good luck and
> against the evil eye. They were also placed on entranceways for protection
> and on chariots of victorius generals for good luck.
>
> I have an anatomically correct Frey amulet which was given to me by
> Mercurius Apollonius a while back and I have to say it is an eye opener.
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.


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Salvete omnes,

While reading Mommsen, I came accross his analysis of the origin of the
Republican senate. According to him (he said that he followed ancient
texts), I quote, "out of 300 of its members (the senate of the early
republic) only the lesser half was still composed of full citizens or
fathers (patres); 164 seats belonged to the new comers and were registered
as such (conscripti)".
Mommsen goes on in saying that when addressing the Senate, the sentence
"Patres [et] conscripti" was used (please note the [et]).

Intrigued by this paragrah I reached for my copy of Cornell's "The
beginnings of Rome" for more information (p247).
Cornell agrees with Mommsen here when he states : "We know that, from very
early times, it (the senate) consisted of two groups, the patres and the
conscripti. The formal designation was patres conscripti or patres et
conscripti."
Although some experts take conscripti as an adjective, Cornell dismisses the
idea and argues that "tradition treats the conscripti as separate from the
patres...[and]...the formula used to summon the senate called upon those who
are fathers and those who are enrolled" (qui patres quique conscripti,Livy
2.1.11)

From this I have two questions :

a) Is there anybody on this list who disagree with the above ? if so why ?
what sources can I read to have another view of the problem ?

b) If we take Cornell's comments as being the right interpretation,
shouldn't we change the way we address our senators from 'conscript fathers'
to 'fathers and enrolled ones'?

I am looking forward to some enlightening comments
Optime valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Avete, Quirites.

"Tusculum: Proyecto de investigación [Tusculum: Project of
Investigation]":

http://www.csic.it/tusculum/index.htm

This site reports on a project by a Spanish-Italian government and
academic consortium to excavate Tusculum, a Etruscan-Latin city south
of Rome (near the site of the Battle of Lake Regillo, 496 BCE) on the
vital line of communications between Rome and Campania, which had
become a Roman municipia by the fourth century BCE. It includes a
bibliography of publications arising from the excavations. The site
is in Spanish, but can be read in English via Altavista's Babelfish
machine translation facility (with the usual caveats about the
shortcomings of machine translation) at http://world.altavista.com/.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete, Omes et
Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.
Merlinia Ambrosia, Legata Nova Caesaria, Medatlantica Provincia Sends
Greetings!

There are 4 of us, and Lots of letters. I believe our Propraetor wants
to get these letters out as quickly as possible (I had 25 to keep track
of). I also know he would not allow anyone whom he felt would not live
up to standard to be a scribe. In truth, we had no scribes up to this
point, and I'm glad we have a few now. In Nova Caesaria (NJ) alone, we
have over 150 civis. Then there's NY, PA, VA, MD, and DEL. It's a tough
job to even reach them all, let alone keep up regular communications.

I have been a Citizen since the 1st Roman Days in MD, and I can tell
you, for some odd reason, Medatlantica has been the 'kiss of death'
to many Propraetors and Legates. I know Marinus; I've drunk with him,
Eaten with him, spent Snowstorms and deluges with him, and he's
pretty damn good.

I trust him to do the right thing.
Valete!
-M.Ambrosia

D.I.Silanus wrote-
My reading of this text is that only governors and
appointed legates may enagage in the census duty of
contacting inactive citizens, which necessitates
access to private contact information. Although the
Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus states that provincial
governors may, if necessary, disclose such information
to 'lawfully apointed assistants', I do find it
questionable appointing five temporary scribes solely
for this purpose. I believe that, as governors, we
must exercise all due caution with regards to whom we
disclose such information.

Salve Merlinia Ambrosia,

In defense of Iunius Silanus, I do not think his comments were directed to
any one in particular nor were they intended to hurt anybody's feelings.
Perhaps was he just trying to avoid a precedent were private information
would be disclosed to more people than necessary : What is "necessary"
remains to be debated.
Of course we all trust Marinus and his judgement. I am confident that the
people he chose to help him conduct that particular census are capable and
devoted citizens.
However, as a citizen myself I do regard any "tempering" and use of private
information with much caution especially when the said information is dealt
with by unelected officials.
I'll say again that I do trust these appointed scribae and Marinus'decision
but I fear that such an appointement could open the door to unwanted future
developments at the hand of less than honourable magistrates. With all due
respect to Marinus I therefore second Silanus' views on the matter.

Optime valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Joanne Shaver [mailto:merlinia@...]
Sent: 24 August 2003 13:16
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Legal Legate? Scribae?


Salvete, Omes et
Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.
Merlinia Ambrosia, Legata Nova Caesaria, Medatlantica Provincia Sends
Greetings!

There are 4 of us, and Lots of letters. I believe our Propraetor wants
to get these letters out as quickly as possible (I had 25 to keep track
of). I also know he would not allow anyone whom he felt would not live
up to standard to be a scribe. In truth, we had no scribes up to this
point, and I'm glad we have a few now. In Nova Caesaria (NJ) alone, we
have over 150 civis. Then there's NY, PA, VA, MD, and DEL. It's a tough
job to even reach them all, let alone keep up regular communications.

I have been a Citizen since the 1st Roman Days in MD, and I can tell
you, for some odd reason, Medatlantica has been the 'kiss of death'
to many Propraetors and Legates. I know Marinus; I've drunk with him,
Eaten with him, spent Snowstorms and deluges with him, and he's
pretty damn good.

I trust him to do the right thing.
Valete!
-M.Ambrosia

D.I.Silanus wrote-
My reading of this text is that only governors and
appointed legates may enagage in the census duty of
contacting inactive citizens, which necessitates
access to private contact information. Although the
Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus states that provincial
governors may, if necessary, disclose such information
to 'lawfully apointed assistants', I do find it
questionable appointing five temporary scribes solely
for this purpose. I believe that, as governors, we
must exercise all due caution with regards to whom we
disclose such information.




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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Equitius" <vergil@s...>
wrote:

>
> BTW It's very good to see you back in the Forum, Rustice! How's the

Turnip

> patch these days?

And awfully good to be back here, Cincinnate. It's been over 3 years.
And apparently, a turnip crop won't keep fresh that long unharvested.
Who'd have known?

Cn. Rusticus

Salve Merlina Ambrosia,

I sympathise with the workload incurred due to the
census process. It is one that I and my legates share
on this side of the Atlantic. However, it is rather
beside the point. The Lex Fabia de Censo specifically
states that only governors and their legates may
undertake the census, the rationale being, I believe,
to keep to a minimum the number of individuals privy
to confidential citizen information. I do not believe
that we should disregard the letter of our laws just
because it is expedient to do so.

If the originators of this legislation wish it to be
known to me that my understanding of this law is
incorrect then I am happy for them to do so. Until
that time I believe that all governors should abide by
this law as it stands.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
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Salvete omnes,

Now that my holiday in Provincia Italia is over I'm at last able to
post a short diary of my trip there, concentrating to the most
wonderful event organised by Curule Aedile Franciscus Apulus Caesar.
I mean of course the second Nova Roman Rally in Europe!

It is not possible to describe how wonderful the meeting was, and all
the amazing things we saw and experienced there. I'll just invite
everyone interested to see some of the pictures I and Emilia Curia
Finnica took and maybe read some impressions I had about the Rally:

http://www.insulaumbra.com/nreurope2003


Once again, thank you for:
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Manius Constantinus Serapio
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Aurelia Iulia Pulchra
Alexander Solaris Draco
Brettia Solaria Danica
Lucius Iulius Sulla
Aelius Solaris Marullinus
& all other wonderful people I had the privilege to meet!

Valete,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve D Iunius Silanus,

>If the originators of this legislation wish it to be known to me that my

understanding of this law is

>incorrect then I am happy for them to do so. Until that time I believe that

all governors should abide by this law as it stands.

I agree.

Even though that I am 1000 % sure that the people who are working on this
census and having access to confidential information on the citizens are
good upstanding citizens, the Census Law
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-05-31-i.html states that

"Inactive" Citizens who are unreachable by email shall receive a mailing.
This shall be done on the provincial level by Governors and legati under the
supervision of the Censors".

G Equitius Marinus: Since you are the Governor in question who has appointed
(I believe) 5 assistants to do this mailing when only you and your legate
are authorized to do so, I would like to suggest that you follow our rules,
as you remind all magistrates to do in your email of Aug 21 21:43 Roman
Time:

<But we magistrates should follow the rules, and not encourage others to
break them.

Valete,
Diana Moravia
Tribune

Salvete Cn Equiti omnesque

> G Equitius Marinus: Since you are the Governor in question who has appointed
> (I believe) 5 assistants to do this mailing when only you and your legate
> are authorized to do so, I would like to suggest that you follow our rules...

I, too, would suggest the same thing. As you are capable of appointing
legati as you see fit, I suggest that you change the job title of each
of the offending scribae to legatus post haste.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
People who take issue with control of population do not understand that
if it is not done in a graceful way, nature will do it in a brutal fashion.
-Henry Kendall