SALVE, POMPONIA FABIA

Thank for you request. Da, da, dejstvitel' spasibo. But...

I thought that is a restored pronunciation:

- yes, c is like in katya (so, i think you really knew Russian - my
favorite female name is yulya and katya)

- ae - (caesar) - is like i in 'night' (noch')

- ti - (yes, yes - revolutio) - non like 'reevolyutseeo', but
'reevolyuteeo'

- s - in any position - like s (sun) - rosa (all russian girls likes
this flower)

May be, anything else?

Is it real that I read someone pronunciate GNAEUS like 'neyus'?

No, GN is GN, it is not italian NG (like russian n'
or spanish n with ~)

Vale
C VALERIVS PVBLICOLA SIBERICVS(I think Siberia (Sibir' (Seebeer') in Russian) is very beatyful word, isn't?)
mailto:alexus1978@list.rг

C VALERIUS PUBLICOLA CNEO DIONYSIO SPD

GDDI> Salve Rustice,

>>   Actually this view is related to a common misconception about

GDDI> English and languages in general. Every language is as
GDDI> complex/difficult as any other, only the complexity manifests itself
GDDI> at another level.

GDDI> << Everything is equal. Nothing is better than anything else. Today I
GDDI> ate my shoes and wore my toast on my feet. In retrospect, I couldn't
GDDI> tell the difference. >>

GDDI> All languages are shoes. They are just constructed differently.

GDDI> Wear toast on your feet? You must have big toast, or small feet then ;).

GDDI> Vale bene,
GDDI> Draco



GDDI> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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GDDI> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Nice... You are real right :-()

VALE
--
C VALERIUS PUBLICOLA mailto:alexus1978@...

Salve, Romano-philes.

I have noticed that there is some discussion on this board regarding
adopting an "official" language.

I've often wondered why Latin has so fallen from use as a common
second language. European countries have had a hard enough time
formalizing and standardizing their own languages over the
centuries. My main main observation is that when Latin is taught,
the very formal language is usually taught, which is conducive to
flowery addresses by the Senatorum, but not helpful for rattling off
a joke.

I've learned some German and Japanese in my own time. (And, yes, it
is hopeless to become literate in Japanese unless you are immersed
in the written language for five years.) Learning, say, an arcane
form of German from the 13th century, or only extremely formal
Imperial Japanese language would have been much harder because I
couldn't open a magazine and scan news written in that language, or
watch soap operas and cartoons written in them, and so on.

Modern Latin revivalists have suffered from the fact that there
aren't, say, magazines or novels routinely written in Latin. (Note
Bene: I have seen that Harry Potter has been translated into Latin.)

My point is--and it's a long way in getting there--is what modern
language is the closest to Latin? I have heard that it is
Portugese. In that sense, does learning Portugese help one scan
through Latin texts any easier than Italian or Spanish?

~Danono
Iacomus Gladius Darrius

Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was
titled here in the states 'Druids?'

I'm not an expert in this period of history, but this "historical"
movie was abominable! A terrible letdown.

First of all, I can't fathom how they could take such a
characteristic society like the Gauls and portray them as almost
urbane, peaceful French peasants from the late middle ages.

The real Gauls were rough-and-ready characters than these movie
creations, I would think. Every record of them has them as a proud,
honor-borne culture with a drama of life-and-death in their daily
lives. They may have been peaceful when compared to the Tuetons and
the Scythians, but they were a warrior, human-sacrificing culture,
nonetheless. In this movie there were no obvious slaves and squires
to the Gaullic warriors, no captured heads, and very little of the
ritual ecstacy that warriors took in facing battle. Plus, for a
movie called "Druids," the Druids were not diviners of the will of
the Gods, wizards, magicians, and sages, as they would have been to
the ancient Gauls--but seemed to bow their heads and mutter a lot,
more passive than modern Unitarian Pastors.

Furthermore, for such an awful, bloody, scorched-Earth war as the
one in Gaul was, the Legions are portrayed as being almost
lackadaisical and bumbling. The Gauls lay waste to the land to deny
the Roman army food, but there's little indication of exactly why
this was necessary. Nor is there any indication of the military
formidibility and mobility and speed of Ceasar's army which enabled
smaller numbers of Romans to conquer the less-disciplined Gauls.

Julius Ceasar was portrayed as a James Bond kind of villain. (By a
guy who played a Bond villain.) Smarmy, effeminate, manipulative.
This was not Julius Ceasar the triumphal warlord who conquered the
world. This was a second-rate Blofeld in a low-budget Roman costume.

Ugh--and Vercingetorix. Well, it confirms that Christopher Lambert
is a lousy actor even when he plays a French character.
Vercingetorix as "action hero" was a lowbrow waste. The real
Vercingetorix was far more interesting, as the conflicted King who
unified these warrior tribes in a real political sense. No, they
wanted to make him the Gaullic "Braveheart"--and they made a movie
that was even more of a mockery of history than that Mel Gibson
blood libel.

What tedious crap. I wonder how many people who come across this
movie will think it's what "really happened."

~Danono
Iacomus Gladius Darrius

Yes, I've seen "Druids" or the first part of it anyway. I couldn't
get past the bad acting and only stuck it out for about 15 minutes.

Arnamentia Moravia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iacomus_darrius" <modpop@y...>
wrote:

>
> Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was
> titled here in the states 'Druids?'
>
> I'm not an expert in this period of history, but this "historical"
> movie was abominable! A terrible letdown.
>
> First of all, I can't fathom how they could take such a
> characteristic society like the Gauls and portray them as almost
> urbane, peaceful French peasants from the late middle ages.
>
> The real Gauls were rough-and-ready characters than these movie
> creations, I would think. Every record of them has them as a

proud,

> honor-borne culture with a drama of life-and-death in their daily
> lives. They may have been peaceful when compared to the Tuetons

and

> the Scythians, but they were a warrior, human-sacrificing culture,
> nonetheless. In this movie there were no obvious slaves and

squires

> to the Gaullic warriors, no captured heads, and very little of the
> ritual ecstacy that warriors took in facing battle. Plus, for a
> movie called "Druids," the Druids were not diviners of the will of
> the Gods, wizards, magicians, and sages, as they would have been to
> the ancient Gauls--but seemed to bow their heads and mutter a lot,
> more passive than modern Unitarian Pastors.
>
> Furthermore, for such an awful, bloody, scorched-Earth war as the
> one in Gaul was, the Legions are portrayed as being almost
> lackadaisical and bumbling. The Gauls lay waste to the land to

deny

> the Roman army food, but there's little indication of exactly why
> this was necessary. Nor is there any indication of the military
> formidibility and mobility and speed of Ceasar's army which enabled
> smaller numbers of Romans to conquer the less-disciplined Gauls.
>
> Julius Ceasar was portrayed as a James Bond kind of villain. (By a
> guy who played a Bond villain.) Smarmy, effeminate, manipulative.
> This was not Julius Ceasar the triumphal warlord who conquered the
> world. This was a second-rate Blofeld in a low-budget Roman

costume.

>
> Ugh--and Vercingetorix. Well, it confirms that Christopher Lambert
> is a lousy actor even when he plays a French character.
> Vercingetorix as "action hero" was a lowbrow waste. The real
> Vercingetorix was far more interesting, as the conflicted King who
> unified these warrior tribes in a real political sense. No, they
> wanted to make him the Gaullic "Braveheart"--and they made a movie
> that was even more of a mockery of history than that Mel Gibson
> blood libel.
>
> What tedious crap. I wonder how many people who come across this
> movie will think it's what "really happened."
>
> ~Danono
> Iacomus Gladius Darrius

Salve Iacome Darri
I had heard it was Romanian/Rumanian that still is closest to
Latin, it still has cases. Anyone?
Vale Pomponia Fabia

> Salve, Romano-philes.
>
> I have noticed that there is some discussion on this board

regarding

> adopting an "official" language.
>
> I've often wondered why Latin has so fallen from use as a common
> second language. European countries have had a hard enough time
> formalizing and standardizing their own languages over the
> centuries. My main main observation is that when Latin is taught,
> the very formal language is usually taught, which is conducive to
> flowery addresses by the Senatorum, but not helpful for rattling

off

> a joke.
>
> I've learned some German and Japanese in my own time. (And, yes,

it

> is hopeless to become literate in Japanese unless you are immersed
> in the written language for five years.) Learning, say, an arcane
> form of German from the 13th century, or only extremely formal
> Imperial Japanese language would have been much harder because I
> couldn't open a magazine and scan news written in that language, or
> watch soap operas and cartoons written in them, and so on.
>
> Modern Latin revivalists have suffered from the fact that there
> aren't, say, magazines or novels routinely written in Latin. (Note
> Bene: I have seen that Harry Potter has been translated into Latin.)
>
> My point is--and it's a long way in getting there--is what modern
> language is the closest to Latin? I have heard that it is
> Portugese. In that sense, does learning Portugese help one scan
> through Latin texts any easier than Italian or Spanish?
>
> ~Danono
> Iacomus Gladius Darrius

AVE L SICINI DRVSE SENATOR

> There have been two occasions in Nova Roma's short
> history when a crisis resulted in the magistrates
> having to make quick decessions based on real time
> conversations. If Nova Roma's two Consuls had to wait
> for the servies of a translator hours of time could be
> lost.

This message is a mere consideration, and in no way what I'm saying
is an argument against comprehensible english as a requirement for
magistrates.

Should a crisis occur, and should it need quick decisions and
actions, Nova Roma would have at Her disposal the opportunity to
appoint a Dictator. We often think Rome appointed a Dictator rather
rarely (once every 10/20 years?), but just take a look at Livius,
and we'll see how many they are!

Respectfully

OPTIME VALE
M'Con.Serapio

--- Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...>
wrote:

> AVE L SICINI DRVSE SENATOR
>
> > There have been two occasions in Nova Roma's short
> > history when a crisis resulted in the magistrates
> > having to make quick decessions based on real time
> > conversations. If Nova Roma's two Consuls had to
> wait
> > for the servies of a translator hours of time
> could be
> > lost.
>
> This message is a mere consideration, and in no way
> what I'm saying
> is an argument against comprehensible english as a
> requirement for
> magistrates.
>
> Should a crisis occur, and should it need quick
> decisions and
> actions, Nova Roma would have at Her disposal the
> opportunity to
> appoint a Dictator. We often think Rome appointed a
> Dictator rather
> rarely (once every 10/20 years?), but just take a
> look at Livius,
> and we'll see how many they are!
>

So WHO is going to appoint the dictator while the
magistrates and Senate are running around looking for
translators?



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

-----Original Message-----
From : “G. Valerius Publicola“ <alexus1978@...>
CC : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.comDate : 21 September 2003 09:55:29

>
>No, GN is GN, it is not italian NG (like russian n'
>or spanish n with ~)
>

Ave!
I have seen one reference that claims GN corresponds to NgN, as might be the case in Greek., so Classical 'Angnus', late 'Añus'. I don't know what the authority for this and I've never seen it anywhere else. Au is 'Ow' of course, but I would guess that Ae was slightly 'on its way' from Ai to E and more open than Ai since it had been spelt that way in the 2nd century BCE. Possibly V also had a slightly closer sound rather like the Indian and Dutch W between W and V.

Caesariensis

"The idea of an individual Ego is like putting some Ganges water in a pot and calling it the Ganges" - Ramakrishna



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : rory12001 <rory12001@...>
Date : 21 September 2003 20:59:18

Salve Iacome Darri

> I had heard it was Romanian/Rumanian that still is closest to
>Latin, it still has cases. Anyone?
> Vale Pomponia Fabia
>

Given the recent influx of refugees, Romanian notices have started to appear. Once you get round the slav-influenced spelling rules and softened pronunciation (Bucharesti for Bucareshtch) it is still very close. There are four cases (as in Latin in reality - the Dative merged with either Ablative or Genitive), three genders uniquely and a suffixed definite article from Ille like everybody else's. So Domnul = Dominus Ille, Domnului = Domino illui.
Portuguese is awful. It is not particularly phonetic and has masses of nasalised sounds still spelt in French but mercifully long since gone in speech. Probably something like Catalan or Sardinian is closest. I recommend the artificial language Interlingua as being better known than most AI and defined as more 'scientific Latin' based than Esperanto.

Caesariensis.

"The idea of an individual Ego is like putting some Ganges water in a pot and calling it the Ganges" - Ramakrishna



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>
> --- Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@y...>
> wrote:
> > AVE L SICINI DRVSE SENATOR
> >
> > > There have been two occasions in Nova Roma's short
> > > history when a crisis resulted in the magistrates
> > > having to make quick decessions based on real time
> > > conversations. If Nova Roma's two Consuls had to
> > wait
> > > for the servies of a translator hours of time
> > could be
> > > lost.
> >
> > This message is a mere consideration, and in no way
> > what I'm saying
> > is an argument against comprehensible english as a
> > requirement for
> > magistrates.
> >
> > Should a crisis occur, and should it need quick
> > decisions and
> > actions, Nova Roma would have at Her disposal the
> > opportunity to
> > appoint a Dictator. We often think Rome appointed a
> > Dictator rather
> > rarely (once every 10/20 years?), but just take a
> > look at Livius,
> > and we'll see how many they are!
> >
>
> So WHO is going to appoint the dictator while the
> magistrates and Senate are running around looking for
> translators?

Avete Omnes,

In Nova Roma we have already had 1 dictator, 3 years ago. And we
almost had the need for another one about a year and a half earlier
during the consulship of Flavius Vedius and Marcus Cassius when
Tribune Gn. Moravius tried to pass laws contrary to the
Constitution. That was two crises within 3 years alone. One
resulted in a dictatorship, the other narrowly avoided.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

>
> --- Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@y...>
> wrote:
> > AVE L SICINI DRVSE SENATOR
> >
> > > There have been two occasions in Nova Roma's short
> > > history when a crisis resulted in the magistrates
> > > having to make quick decessions based on real time
> > > conversations. If Nova Roma's two Consuls had to
> > wait
> > > for the servies of a translator hours of time
> > could be
> > > lost.
> >
> > This message is a mere consideration, and in no way
> > what I'm saying
> > is an argument against comprehensible english as a
> > requirement for
> > magistrates.
> >
> > Should a crisis occur, and should it need quick
> > decisions and
> > actions, Nova Roma would have at Her disposal the
> > opportunity to
> > appoint a Dictator. We often think Rome appointed a
> > Dictator rather
> > rarely (once every 10/20 years?), but just take a
> > look at Livius,
> > and we'll see how many they are!
> >
>
> So WHO is going to appoint the dictator while the
> magistrates and Senate are running around looking for
> translators?
>
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Salvete omnes,

We had a lengthy discussion in Imperial Rome2. From what I could see
and looked up, the movie with regards to the battle and seige of
Alesia and the scorched earth policy was rather accurate. Caesar
offering Verginetorix a Kingship was not. The Roman segmented lorca
was 80 years out of date according to the reenactment experts.

There is great debate over the years about Celtic society. Caesar,
with his supposed biased ideas classed these non Romans as savages a
generation or two out of the trees. On the otherhand look at their
jewelry and sword making abilities which were excellent, the wheel
and axle design on their chariots were superior to the Romans, they
did have connections to villages and cordoroy roads. Their flaw was
that there was too much individual bravado in their ranks and not
enough discipline and organization when it came to battles.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia"
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I've seen "Druids" or the first part of it anyway. I couldn't
> get past the bad acting and only stuck it out for about 15 minutes.
>
> Arnamentia Moravia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iacomus_darrius" <modpop@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was
> > titled here in the states 'Druids?'
> >
> > I'm not an expert in this period of history, but

this "historical"

> > movie was abominable! A terrible letdown.
> >
> > First of all, I can't fathom how they could take such a
> > characteristic society like the Gauls and portray them as almost
> > urbane, peaceful French peasants from the late middle ages.
> >
> > The real Gauls were rough-and-ready characters than these movie
> > creations, I would think. Every record of them has them as a
> proud,
> > honor-borne culture with a drama of life-and-death in their daily
> > lives. They may have been peaceful when compared to the Tuetons
> and
> > the Scythians, but they were a warrior, human-sacrificing

culture,

> > nonetheless. In this movie there were no obvious slaves and
> squires
> > to the Gaullic warriors, no captured heads, and very little of

the

> > ritual ecstacy that warriors took in facing battle. Plus, for a
> > movie called "Druids," the Druids were not diviners of the will

of

> > the Gods, wizards, magicians, and sages, as they would have been

to

> > the ancient Gauls--but seemed to bow their heads and mutter a

lot,

> > more passive than modern Unitarian Pastors.
> >
> > Furthermore, for such an awful, bloody, scorched-Earth war as the
> > one in Gaul was, the Legions are portrayed as being almost
> > lackadaisical and bumbling. The Gauls lay waste to the land to
> deny
> > the Roman army food, but there's little indication of exactly why
> > this was necessary. Nor is there any indication of the military
> > formidibility and mobility and speed of Ceasar's army which

enabled

> > smaller numbers of Romans to conquer the less-disciplined Gauls.
> >
> > Julius Ceasar was portrayed as a James Bond kind of villain. (By

a

> > guy who played a Bond villain.) Smarmy, effeminate,

manipulative.

> > This was not Julius Ceasar the triumphal warlord who conquered

the

> > world. This was a second-rate Blofeld in a low-budget Roman
> costume.
> >
> > Ugh--and Vercingetorix. Well, it confirms that Christopher

Lambert

> > is a lousy actor even when he plays a French character.
> > Vercingetorix as "action hero" was a lowbrow waste. The real
> > Vercingetorix was far more interesting, as the conflicted King

who

> > unified these warrior tribes in a real political sense. No, they
> > wanted to make him the Gaullic "Braveheart"--and they made a

movie

> > that was even more of a mockery of history than that Mel Gibson
> > blood libel.
> >
> > What tedious crap. I wonder how many people who come across this
> > movie will think it's what "really happened."
> >
> > ~Danono
> > Iacomus Gladius Darrius

AVE L SICINI

> So WHO is going to appoint the dictator while the
> magistrates and Senate are running around looking for
> translators?

ha ha ha ! Touché ;-)
Well, one can be very bad in english, but if he can't even
say "Let's choose a Dictator!" I assume he won't even be elected! ;-)
Anyway, that was just a consideration as I said. You've the sense of
humour! ;-)

OPTIME VALE
M'Con.Serapio

Salvete omnes,

Yes, Romanian still has the cases for the nouns:

In Romanian there are 3 genders: Masculine, feminine, neutral

there are 2 numbers, singular and plural
Five noun cases - nominative, genetive, dative accustitive,
vocative.

Eg nom fem - Romania
genative - Romaniei
Dative - Romaniei
Accusitive - Romania
Vocative - Romanie

Masculine noun

nominative sing - doctorul
genetive sing - doctorlui
dative - doctorlui
ablative - doctorul

Plural

Nominative - doctori
genitive - doctorlor
dative - doctorlor
ablative - doctorilor

etc.

Regards

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salve Iacome Darri
> I had heard it was Romanian/Rumanian that still is closest to
> Latin, it still has cases. Anyone?
> Vale Pomponia Fabia
>
> > Salve, Romano-philes.
> >
> > I have noticed that there is some discussion on this board
> regarding
> > adopting an "official" language.
> >
> > I've often wondered why Latin has so fallen from use as a common
> > second language. European countries have had a hard enough time
> > formalizing and standardizing their own languages over the
> > centuries. My main main observation is that when Latin is
taught,
> > the very formal language is usually taught, which is conducive to
> > flowery addresses by the Senatorum, but not helpful for rattling
> off
> > a joke.
> >
> > I've learned some German and Japanese in my own time. (And, yes,
> it
> > is hopeless to become literate in Japanese unless you are
immersed
> > in the written language for five years.) Learning, say, an
arcane
> > form of German from the 13th century, or only extremely formal
> > Imperial Japanese language would have been much harder because I
> > couldn't open a magazine and scan news written in that language,
or
> > watch soap operas and cartoons written in them, and so on.
> >
> > Modern Latin revivalists have suffered from the fact that there
> > aren't, say, magazines or novels routinely written in Latin.
(Note
> > Bene: I have seen that Harry Potter has been translated into
Latin.)
> >
> > My point is--and it's a long way in getting there--is what modern
> > language is the closest to Latin? I have heard that it is
> > Portugese. In that sense, does learning Portugese help one scan
> > through Latin texts any easier than Italian or Spanish?
> >
> > ~Danono
> > Iacomus Gladius Darrius

In a message dated 9/21/03 3:38:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@... writes:

> Well, one can be very bad in english, but if he can't even
> say "Let's choose a Dictator!" I assume he won't even be elected! ;-)
> Anyway, that was just a consideration as I said. You've the sense of
> humour! ;-)
>

Wouldn't that be "I wanna be a Dictator?" And you are correct, Drusus has a
sense of humor.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Lanius Paulinus

I'm sorry, but i can't find your article there.
May you send it to me by e-mail? That would be great
Thanks Lanius

Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve Gnae,
>
> Yes, I posted an article last week. Just look up Jameus Bondus

under

> miguelkelly15 on search and you'll have the article.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Iacomus Gladius Darius writes:

>
> Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was titled here in the states 'Druids?'
>

Yes, I was unfortunate enough to see, "Druids." It's hard to believe so many people could pool their talents and come up with this movie. They get away with it because a lot of Americans, unfortunately, have a sense of history stretching back to the second Reagan administration. Anything earlier than that is a dim memory or a complete fog to a many people. So when the networks make these epics, they all resemble soap operas with costume changes: "Dynasty" in togas, "Dynasty" in suits of armor, "Dynasty" in powdered wigs, etc. And yes, sadly, many people will see this and think they "know what happened," forgetting that it's a movie, not a time machine. After all, how many people saw, "JFK" or "Amadeus" or "Braveheart," and mistakenly think they now know the truth about Kennedy and Mozart and William Wallace?

L. Suetonius Nerva



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I have a deep and abiding fascination with the ancient Celts and
Gauls. Their civilization was indeed not primitive, and was refined
with sophisticated works of art and architecture.

But they were a civlization quite unlike the Romans in many ways,
including how they made war. As a piece of military history, the
movie is flat. It's not merely what it says--yes, you see
Vercingetorix factually burning the fields--but it gives absolutely
no perspective on the scope or urgency of what was happening. (I
know--it was a low budget, lousy movie, anyway.) On one hand the
Romans are portrayed quite flatly as "the bad guys," and on the
other hand, the terror of what the war must have been like to the
average people of Gaul doesn't come through, either.

Ceasar's conquest of Gaul is significant in military history because
of the tactics he used, which are only fatuously hinted at in the
movie. The ability of the legions to move rapidly, their use of
siege engines, and the discipline of the phalanxes are all given
credit for Ceasar's victory in historical studies. In a nutshell,
the Gauls were warriors, but the Romans were soldiers.

The Gauls had an understanding of life and death not dissimilar from
that of the Romans, but of course altogether different from today.
They did carry the heads of their defeated enemies and had sacred
places that were groves of sacred trees--both things that make their
culturally significantly different, from, say, 20th century France,
but you don't quite get that from the movie. A man couldn't be a
chief unless he were a great warrior. So there was constant friction
among the tribes until Vercingetorix. H united the Gauls, and did
it politically rather than with war, in a way they had never been
before. So he is a great historical character, and infinitely more
complex and interesting than the Christopher Lambert portrayal.

~Danono
Iacomus Glaidus Darrius

> There is great debate over the years about Celtic society. Caesar,
> with his supposed biased ideas classed these non Romans as

savages a

> generation or two out of the trees. On the otherhand look at their
> jewelry and sword making abilities which were excellent, the wheel
> and axle design on their chariots were superior to the Romans,

they

> did have connections to villages and cordoroy roads. Their flaw

was

> that there was too much individual bravado in their ranks and not
> enough discipline and organization when it came to battles.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve,

> Portuguese is awful. It is not particularly phonetic and has

masses of nasalised sounds still spelt in French but mercifully long
since gone in speech. Probably something like Catalan or Sardinian
is closest. I recommend the artificial language Interlingua as being
better known than most AI and defined as more 'scientific Latin'
based than Esperanto.

>

That's too bad about Portugese. I have been playing around with
learning Italian, and I like the language a lot. Bella Lingua.

Esperanto just seems like a bad idea. I wondered why nobody had
simplified and formalized Latin a bit to make it less rigid and
formal. I suppose that's what Interlingua is? I'd reduce the
multiple forms that schoolkids cut their teeth on (Like the 'Romani
Ite Domum' scene from the Life of Brian.-

>http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/LifeOfBrian/brian-08.html)

Maybe because I'm a native English speaker the whole concept of
nouns having genders is baffling to me. What a wonderful innovation
is the English word "the."

P.MINIUS AQUILA PALLADIUS G.IULIO SCAURO SALUTEM DICIT.


My congratulations Iulius Scaurus for the victory of Ludi Romani! Congratulation
also with Factio Praesina!

Bene Vale,

Pompeius Minius Aquila Palladius
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

Pax vobiscum dear Friend C. MINIUS MESSALA BELLATOR

NO Excuse is need for not working on the Eagle as you were dealing with a crisis and tragedy of such magnitude!!!

Your past efforts on the staff of the Eagle is much appreciated and your return is greatly anticipated.

The prayers of the entire Eagle staff, of which you and your family are a very big part, are with you and yours in this difficult time. I am putting together a tribute to the Gens Minia for the September issue of the Eagle.

Pax

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum

----- Original Message -----
From: giosuemini@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 7:06 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Return of Gens Minia


C. MINIUS MESSALA BELLATOR C.FABIO QUINTILIANO SALUTEM DICIT.

Thank you infinitely, dear senior consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus,

our duty now is to advance all together! We would like you ensure all our
deep attachment with Nova Roma and our determination to remain active within
the republic! We would like however to excuse to us in front of Tiberius
Galerius Paulinus for delay which we took, indeed three members of our Ge
are Scriba curatoris differum. As of October 1 we will take again the drafting
of our articles. To exceed our pain we absolutely need to be occupied by
Nova Roma. Thank you still for your supports and your encouragement.

Thanks and Vale,

Ca?us Minius Messala Bellator
(Paterfamilias of the Gens Minia)
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Civis Galliae Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima



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C. MINIUS MESSALA BELLATOR T. GALERIO PAULINO SALUTEM DICIT

My very dear friend,

Thank you very much for your comprehension and the sincere feelings that
you present to us! Today was to be the day of the birthday of dad, but we
all are remained to weld. We made a great day of commemoration in the honor
of our expensive disappeared. We have to request the gods of Rome to receive
them as a dii Manes and we made many offerings. Can the gods all bless you
and that the Eagle is blessed of Mercurius, him it divine messenger and the
carrier of peace. That peace and fraternity reign for always in our dear
R?publique. You are really in our heart Tiberius we would like so much to
make things for you. How the gods blesses you infinitely! Thank you, Thank
you Thank you Tiberius.

Bene Vale,

Ca?us Minius Messala Bellator
(Paterfamilias de la Gens Minia)
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

I tried to watch this movie tonight. After about 20 minutes I had to change the channel and air out the room.

Caius Titinius Varus

----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Druids (no stars) or Vercingetorix


Iacomus Gladius Darius writes:

>
> Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was titled here in the states 'Druids?'
>
Yes, I was unfortunate enough to see, "Druids." It's hard to believe so many people could pool their talents and come up with this movie. They get away with it because a lot of Americans, unfortunately, have a sense of history stretching back to the second Reagan administration. Anything earlier than that is a dim memory or a complete fog to a many people. So when the networks make these epics, they all resemble soap operas with costume changes: "Dynasty" in togas, "Dynasty" in suits of armor, "Dynasty" in powdered wigs, etc. And yes, sadly, many people will see this and think they "know what happened," forgetting that it's a movie, not a time machine. After all, how many people saw, "JFK" or "Amadeus" or "Braveheart," and mistakenly think they now know the truth about Kennedy and Mozart and William Wallace?

L. Suetonius Nerva



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus C. Fabio Quintiliano nobili consuli salutem dicit.

Salve, C. Fabi consul.

> I hereby Congratulate You to the great win in the Ludi Romani
> Circenses and wish You everything good in the future!

Thank you for your kind words. The victory I owe to the Gods, not my
own slight labour in this, and to the support and encouragement of my
amici in Factio Praesina. My thanks I give also to the Aediles
Curules and their cohors for organising these games to honour the
Roman people and their Gods.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus P. Minio Aquilae Palladio salutem dicit.

Salve, P. Mini.

> In the name of all the family thanks for having to think of us I am

really

> to touch by your gesture and my large have it too.
> I hope to be able to speak at greater length with you in the future

and to

> even work in collaboration with you. Your friendship is sincerely

invaluable

> in our eyes. It was not useful to ask us for your message, we are filled
> by your action. You have the greeting of all our Gens. Thank you

Scaurus.

It was the very least I could do, and a privilege to be of what help
I could to your family in its hours of grief. If there is any help I
may be in the future, please call upon me without hesitation. Again,
you and your family are in my prayers.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Prisca Minia Pompeia Messalina salutem pluribus omnibus dicit.

Dear friends,

I present myself I am Pompeia Minia Messalina, I am the wife of Plinius which
is thus deceased Friday. My son Caius helped me much but especially my grandson
Aquila that many citizens know. Yes, Aquila and his wife Ocellina were really
extraordinary.
I held has all to thank you dear friends for the attention and supports it
impressive that you had carried us. As said Plinius: ' It is a pure joy of
remaining at your side '. I am very happy to make party of this great named
family Nova Roma. Thank you infinitely with Gens Sempronia, Moravia, Iulia,
Fabia, Galeria, Cassia, Apollonia, Arminia, Iunia, Lania, Labiena, Rutilia
and well of others still... that my old memory forgot. I am deeply moved
to see that in spite of my old age, of the people as you always think has
us! That the gods gives you a happiness thousand times larger than that which
you gave us. Thank you Nova Roma, Thank you dear citizens. My pain is deep
to have lost my expensive beings but all had filled you with joy my heart!
I will never forget you. That our dii Manes like my Plinius husband, and
Velina and Tertius accompany you. I send the love of our Gens to you.

Vale,

Prisca Minia Pompeia Messalina
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

Citizens,
When I started the lets adopt a new language thread I was mearly trying to take the heat off of the Magistrates must speak the English thread which was a little nasty. We are a world wide organization and the current lingua franca is English... we have survived this long with it until we all learn Latin as we should, lets not change anything.
Please, laugh a little, especially when I post! That was my intent this time...


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Here's a link to "The Actium Project":

http://luna.cas.usf.edu/~murray/actium/brochure.html

This site, created by Dr. William Murray (Univ. of South Florida,
outlines an underwater archaeological project to examine the site of
Augustus' victory of Antonius in 31 BCE.

The "Actian Ram Project," also directed by Dr. Murray, features some
excellent photos of the Athlit ram and ancient portrayals of naval
vessels and their armament:

http://luna.cas.usf.edu/~murray/actian-ram/actian_ram_project.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Ave!

Same here...15 min max....it gave me flashbacks of Hercules in New
York! OOOOhhh Scary!

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia"
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I've seen "Druids" or the first part of it anyway. I couldn't
> get past the bad acting and only stuck it out for about 15 minutes.
>
> Arnamentia Moravia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iacomus_darrius" <modpop@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone else seen the movie 'Vercingetorix?' Or, as it was
> > titled here in the states 'Druids?'
> >
> > I'm not an expert in this period of history, but

this "historical"

> > movie was abominable! A terrible letdown.
> >
> > First of all, I can't fathom how they could take such a
> > characteristic society like the Gauls and portray them as almost
> > urbane, peaceful French peasants from the late middle ages.
> >
> > The real Gauls were rough-and-ready characters than these movie
> > creations, I would think. Every record of them has them as a
> proud,
> > honor-borne culture with a drama of life-and-death in their daily
> > lives. They may have been peaceful when compared to the Tuetons
> and
> > the Scythians, but they were a warrior, human-sacrificing

culture,

> > nonetheless. In this movie there were no obvious slaves and
> squires
> > to the Gaullic warriors, no captured heads, and very little of

the

> > ritual ecstacy that warriors took in facing battle. Plus, for a
> > movie called "Druids," the Druids were not diviners of the will

of

> > the Gods, wizards, magicians, and sages, as they would have been

to

> > the ancient Gauls--but seemed to bow their heads and mutter a

lot,

> > more passive than modern Unitarian Pastors.
> >
> > Furthermore, for such an awful, bloody, scorched-Earth war as the
> > one in Gaul was, the Legions are portrayed as being almost
> > lackadaisical and bumbling. The Gauls lay waste to the land to
> deny
> > the Roman army food, but there's little indication of exactly why
> > this was necessary. Nor is there any indication of the military
> > formidibility and mobility and speed of Ceasar's army which

enabled

> > smaller numbers of Romans to conquer the less-disciplined Gauls.
> >
> > Julius Ceasar was portrayed as a James Bond kind of villain. (By

a

> > guy who played a Bond villain.) Smarmy, effeminate,

manipulative.

> > This was not Julius Ceasar the triumphal warlord who conquered

the

> > world. This was a second-rate Blofeld in a low-budget Roman
> costume.
> >
> > Ugh--and Vercingetorix. Well, it confirms that Christopher

Lambert

> > is a lousy actor even when he plays a French character.
> > Vercingetorix as "action hero" was a lowbrow waste. The real
> > Vercingetorix was far more interesting, as the conflicted King

who

> > unified these warrior tribes in a real political sense. No, they
> > wanted to make him the Gaullic "Braveheart"--and they made a

movie

> > that was even more of a mockery of history than that Mel Gibson
> > blood libel.
> >
> > What tedious crap. I wonder how many people who come across this
> > movie will think it's what "really happened."
> >
> > ~Danono
> > Iacomus Gladius Darrius

GREAT!

In favor, sometimes I really can read a latin text with my rag-tag
latin classes. Sure you need an introdution to latin (declinations et
all) but Portuguese does gives you some facility to understand latin.
But this doesn´t do all the hard learning work, but let me say, just
1% help, 99% pain. And remember that reading on all languages (even
the mother one) is the easiest thing. HARD IS WRITING!

On the contrary (Hum, escholastic!) Portuguese was the latest
neolatin language, so you can say it is the fartest.

GREAT!

Vamos falar a língua de Luis de Camões!

And the nasal sounds are impressive beautiful and full of poetry, oh,
Paulinus!

But I know human nature. We human beings really are a piece of mud.
Suppose we choose speaking portuguese... we would start to fight if
we speak portuguese of Brazil (closest on phonetic but farter on
ortograph) or Portugal (closest on ortograph but farter on phonetic).
AND THE SINTAX? LOST BY A VISIGOTH ON THE FLUMEN TAGUS! So... we
would simply change the subject of the arguing... we really want to
fight here ;)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I know my dream is everybody here speaking latin. But having NR as a
good place to learning the language of Rome is great indeed... and in
the middle, english...

Oh, Academia Thules, our last hope, save us!

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Portuguese Translator

> My point is--and it's a long way in getting there--is what modern
> language is the closest to Latin? I have heard that it is
> Portugese. In that sense, does learning Portugese help one scan
> through Latin texts any easier than Italian or Spanish?
>
> ~Danono
> Iacomus Gladius Darrius

AVE Q FABI

> > Well, one can be very bad in english, but if he can't even
> > say "Let's choose a Dictator!" I assume he won't even be

elected! ;-)

> > Anyway, that was just a consideration as I said. You've the

sense of

> > humour! ;-)
> >
>
> Wouldn't that be "I wanna be a Dictator?"

If he's not that skilled he'll say 'want to' instead of 'wanna'
<g> ;-)
Anyway, would the Senate think he/she to be the right person? In
this case recall Roman history, see what solution the Senators had
recourse to, and adapt it to modern times! :-)
<g> kidding of course! ;-)

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio

Fascintating! There had been a Romanian poster hre a few days ago but as luck is usual, was gone. I notice though that the examples you give inflect for the def. article but not for the main noun. I wonder how many cases are in reality the same so they exist only in the mind of grammarians and whether noun inflexions get trimmed back when the article is attached. I vaguely remember a few Icelandic words and they also have an attached infelcted article. It's probably even truer for Romanian since it was not a written language for so long that it develops all kinds of exceptions and short-cuts that were not there in the original. I'm thinking here that the Old Norse for Man went something rather consistent as (N,A,G,D) Manr, Mann, Mans, Mani / Manni, Manni, Mannum, Manni but the modern is maður, mann, mans, meni , plural menn, menn, mönum, menni. with umlauting wherever there's an I or U to affect it.

Caesariensis.

-----Original Message-----
From : “Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)“ <mjk@...>
To : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date : 21 September 2003 23:39:51
Subject : [Nova-Roma] Re: Portugese and Latin cases for Romanian nouns
Salvete omnes,

>
>Yes, Romanian still has the cases for the nouns:
>

"The idea of an individual Ego is like putting some Ganges water in a pot and calling it the Ganges" - Ramakrishna



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Note: forwarded message attached.


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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Salvete omnes,
I saw the movie 'druids' last year at about the same time I watched Attila. Both were Block buster rentals. The word for Druids was 'Ca ca'.
As for Attila, the acting was a little 'Blah' but Aetius' character combined with that of Valentinian III was alright. Valentinian III though reminded me more of Nero...am I mistaken because according to Gibbon, the Valentinians were Christians. In the movie, this guy was committing incest with his sister and more concerned with parties than running a dwindling empire. His mother, the empress, was more of an Agrippina, taking the reins for her incompetent son. (Minus collapsing boat.)
Any historian's in the house?



S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/22/03 9:03:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@... writes:

> Anyway, would the Senate think he/she to be the right person? In
> this case recall Roman history, see what solution the Senators had
> recourse to,

Salvete!

By the late republic, "wanna" or "gonna" seems to be the operational word
here.
The Senate simply went along, as the person in question usually had 6
legiones under
their command! Very prudent.

Besides I get the feeling the Senate was reluctant to proclaim a dictator.
Perhaps they were apprehensive he wouldn't step down after 6 months.

Valete
Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/22/03 10:51:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:

> As for Attila, the acting was a little 'Blah' but Aetius' character
> combined with that of Valentinian III was alright. Valentinian III though reminded
> me more of Nero...am I mistaken because according to Gibbon, the Valentinians
> were Christians. In the movie, this guy was committing incest with his sister
> and more concerned with parties than running a dwindling empire. His mother,
> the empress, was more of an Agrippina, taking the reins for her incompetent
> son. (Minus collapsing boat.)
> Any historian's in the house?
>

We have already have had the rant about Attila. And even though the
Emperor's house was Christian, that doesn't mean he was not not guilty of excesses.

My complaint was simply that the writers fractured history, again. I got the
feel that they wanted to make a post Claudian "I Claudius" with all those
elements. And a Emperor cannot be depraved unless he sleeps with his sister.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Arnamentia,

> Yes, I've seen "Druids" or the first part of it anyway. I couldn't
> get past the bad acting and only stuck it out for about 15 minutes.

Someone should have stopped Christopher Lambert from making movies after the
first Highlander!

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Harry Potter was tranlated into Latin...

What would his Roman name be? Harrivs Cannibvs?


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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---Salve Luci Armini;
Vamos falar a língua de Luis de Camões!
I entirely agree with you, to my impartial American ears,
Portugese is by far the most beautiful sounding of all the Romance
languages. All the wonderful 'sh' sounds so sibilant and then the
nuanced nasals. I suggest Caesariensis see a Sonia Braga film, this
Brazilian actress even made President Jimmy Carter lust in his heart.
Academia Thules is making your dream a reality if all the Romance
speakers learn Latin & those of us good at languages do so too.

> vale in amicitia Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I know my dream is everybody here speaking latin. But having NR as

a

> good place to learning the language of Rome is great indeed... and

in

> the middle, english...
>
> Oh, Academia Thules, our last hope, save us!
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Portuguese Translator
>
>
> >

-----Original Message-----
From : rory12001 <rory12001@...>
Date : 22 September 2003 20:16:52

>nuanced nasals. I suggest Caesariensis see a Sonia Braga film, this
>Brazilian actress even made President Jimmy Carter lust in his heart.
>

No, I heard a lot of Portuguese back home. In fact at first I thought our native Norman had been given a great boost of life. But it's not easy to pronounce with all those obscure nasals and even less to follow. I don't like it at all. For that matter, I don't like mainland Portuguese much though Madeirans are nice enough people. Spanish with a Russian accent maybe?

Caesariensis.

"The idea of an individual Ego is like putting some Ganges water in a pot and calling it the Ganges" - Ramakrishna



--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Yeah, I recently saw Lambert in the movie, Beowulf and his fight with
Grendel. Awful, it is supposed to take place in the area of Denmark
in the dark ages 600 - 800 AD. The talk is LA street jargon, the
clothes are modern to late 1500's, the weapons are high tech blades
like you get at fantasy stores or the house of knives, the music is
metallic, and old Grendel himself has a cloak of invisibility like
Arnie's Predator. Grenel's mother is a hot looking dish until she
metamorphases in the end.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Arnamentia,
>
> > Yes, I've seen "Druids" or the first part of it anyway. I couldn't
> > get past the bad acting and only stuck it out for about 15

minutes.

>
> Someone should have stopped Christopher Lambert from making movies

after the

> first Highlander!
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia

AVE Q FABI

> By the late republic, "wanna" or "gonna" seems to be the

operational word

> here.

Haha! :-) Luckily we are at the beginning!

> The Senate simply went along, as the person in question usually

had 6

> legiones under
> their command! Very prudent.

I've been told that some conjuration took place too. :-)
Anyway, here individuals have no legions, nor Senators have daggers
(or at least I think so!)

> Besides I get the feeling the Senate was reluctant to proclaim a

dictator.

> Perhaps they were apprehensive he wouldn't step down after 6

months.

That would be understandable I think.
However, it's intereseting to notice that, according to Livius, Rome
had at least 53 Dictatores between 501 BC (T Larcius) and 301 BC (M
Valerius Maximus). That's about a Dictator every 4 years on an
average.

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
Cornelius Sulla, Senator & Consular Q. Fabius Maximus,
Senator L. Sicinius Drusus, M' Constantinus Serapio
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I'm afraid I can't add to the humour of his
discussion, but just in case anyone takes things the
wrong way and begins to panic at the idea of the state
becoming paralyzed in a crisis, I'd like to mention
something.

The design of the Roman constitution, and of ours, is
well adapted to deal with crises in which
communications are disrupted. Each consul has the
power to take action independently of his colleague
and independently of the senate (so long as he doesn't
need to spend state funds) if necessary: so in an
emergency the consuls don't need to be able to
understand one another for action to be taken. And
indeed the praetors can take action if the consuls are
completely out of action.

So although it's obviously desirable for magistrates
to be able to communicate effectively, no one should
interpret Senator Drusus' observations to mean that if
we elect magistrates who aren't native
English-speakers the state will collapse. I'm sure
this isn't what he meant, and it's far from the truth
- no need to panic!

And just a note about dictators: in old Rome a
dictator was appointed by a consul (usually but not
necessarily after consulting the senate), so even this
could be done in a communications crisis. In our case
the consuls no longer have this power, but it shows
that the old Romans had thought about these problems
just as we're now thinking about them.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

>Maybe because I'm a native English speaker the whole concept of

nouns having genders is baffling to me.

Well, remember that language often reflects a people's culture, and that
Latin Europe was polytheist, where 'diety' was seen as BOTH masculine (Gods) AND
feminine (Goddesses)...

...with a patron diety for vitually every aspect of life:
war, communication, motherhood, love, the hearth, the hunt, wine, grain...

Its not that far-fetched to see every person, place & thing as either
masculine or feminine, is it?

Link
Miami Beach


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just curious, when a new thing or idea was created, how did they assign
gender to it? Who decided? Were there rules, or did it just evolve?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Druids was the only movie where me and a friend had felt as if we
very truly had poorly wasted two hours of our life. I found it to be
a let down on just about every front.

I agree with how you view the other characters in Attila....Nero,
his mother Agrippina, and the soldier that was on their side..I lent
out the history book i mainly rely on, so I cannot say much about
the historical accuracy...plus my memory of the movie's details are
fuzzy...Valentinius 3 was emporer? I had thought it was Honorius on
the throne when Attila arrived. Or rather, when the visigoths sacked
rome, and Honorius was hiding in Ravenna...?

Valentinian III though reminded me more of Nero...am I mistaken
because according to Gibbon, the Valentinians were Christians. In
the movie, this guy was committing incest with his sister and more
concerned with parties than running a dwindling empire. His mother,
the empress, was more of an Agrippina, taking the reins for her
incompetent son. (Minus collapsing boat.)

> Any historian's in the house?
>
>

Well, I'm a historian, and I don't think there's a better accessible
work on this era than Gibbon. He painted a picture of the empire
sort of losing it's heart and identity after the emperors spent more
time at Ravenna.


~Danono
Iacomus Gladius Darrius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> Harry Potter was tranlated into Latin...
>
> What would his Roman name be? Harrivs Cannibvs?
>
>

Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis check it out
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1582348251/qid%
3D1064258221/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-2765512-8164064


Vale,

~Danono
Iacomus Gladius Darrius

AVE AVLE APOLLONI

I agree with you!
Just I hope people didn't think we were really considering our
Republic so weak to collapse because of a Consul not being native
english! ;-) In this case I apologize!

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio

AVE, MARCE FLAVI

rf> Harry Potter was tranlated into Latin...

rf> What would his Roman name be? Harrivs Cannibvs?


rf> S  P  Q  R

rf> Fidelis Ad Mortem.

rf> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
rf> Roman Citizen

Harrius Vasarificus is more correct, isn't?

But for example in Vulgata the Jewish names are not translated and
not declined... Is it not the same?


Vale

С Publicola Sibericus

mailto:alexus1978@...

EDICTVM CVRATORIS DIFFERUM
The Appointment of Scriba Curatoris Differum
E Domo Curatoris Differum

A. MINIUS ABRAHAEUS VATICINATOR and FLAVIUS MINIUS CLINAMENS


are hereby appointed Scriba Curatoris Differum effective Today

ante diem X Kal. OCTOBRAS MMDCCLVI auc 22 September 2003.

In the consulship of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Curator



FYI

Both are authors.

Albertus Minius is specialized on philosophy, and the virtues, he is a professor in university.

And Flavius Minius is a historian and novelist, he has already wrote several books.

He specializes in art, the ancient culture, poetry and history in general.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

Like most languages, I expect that new words in Latin just evolved.
As far as I know there was no official "Latin Academy" to oversee the
development and/or purity of the language.

As far as the gender of new words, they would most likely have
followed the gender they had in thier native language if they were
loan-words. If they were newly coined Latin words, their gender
would probably follow whatever they were associated with (feminine
use words feminine and so on). Then again, a new word may have just
sounded better with the case endings of a certain declension, which
in some instances would have dictated the gender of the word. For
example, if a word sounded more natural with the -a/-ae endings of
the First Declension, it would probably have been designated as
feminine gender, since the vast majority of the words of the First
Declension are feminine.

This, of course, is just pure speculation on my part. I have studied
quite a few languages, Latin amongst them, but I'm not trained in
Linguistics, which is really what this question is looking for.

Any linguistics experts care to toss in their 2 sistercii?

Vale,

Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, ANTHLINK@A... wrote:
> Just curious, when a new thing or idea was created, how did they
assign
> gender to it? Who decided? Were there rules, or did it just
evolve?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

It developed I think. Actually my French teacher once seriously
pointed out to me that masculine things, more often than not are long
and pointed and were equated to the male's member, things that are
feminine are generally not. I thought that was an interesting
observation.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, ANTHLINK@A... wrote:
> Just curious, when a new thing or idea was created, how did they
assign
> gender to it? Who decided? Were there rules, or did it just
evolve?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

I can not put my finger on it but I remember reading that the Philistines were not Philistines but a rather cultured people and that the use of the term "philistine" is an injustice to them. Yes? No? don't care?


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Roma e il suo fiume: storia e diffusione della
moneta [Rome and is River: The History and Diffusion of Coinage]":

http://www.uniroma2.it/eventi/monete/monete.htm

This site, created by Salvatore Tucci (Università degli Studi di Roma
Tor Vergata), contains a searchable database on Roman numismatics
based on pieces found in the Tiber -- the Tiber Coins Database, a
history of Greek and Roman coinage, and an essay on antiquarian
numismatists. The site is in Italian, but can also be viewed via
Altavista's Babelfish machine translation facility (with the usual
caveats about machine translation) at
http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve Tiberi,

The Vandals were not entirely vandals as well, to name another example of an ancient people that changed into a noun to classify a group of people with certain characteristics :).

Vale bene,
Draco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve
>
> I can not put my finger on it but I remember reading that the
> Philistines were not Philistines but a rather cultured people and
> that the use of the term "philistine" is an injustice to them. Yes?
> No? don't care?

Salvete omnes et salve Tiberie.

Well, the Philistines were no more no less cultured than all the
peoples around them. As far as I know they did have several
technological advances in metallurgy.

They are not coined as specially ignorant or barbaric in the Old
Testament and we might as well take this as proof of their not being
seen as such by the Jews of their time. The Old Testament wastes no
sympathy on those who had once been the enemies of the authors,
describing them routinely in the worst possible light (which is just
human).

So if the philistines had shown any sign of culturelessness this
would have been magnified and written down with glee. Even more, the
archetypes depicted in Samson's story –particularly the …err… "soft-
powered" Delilah- give me the impression of being just the way a
younger, more barbaric people would see their more cultured-yet-
decadent neighbors.

I remember having read somewhere that the term "philistine", in the
sense of "uncultured person", originated in Germany, in the times of
the "Sturm und Drang" movement. The young Schiller & co saw
themselves as the enemies of those who only were concerned with the
banal aspects of life, were impervious to the amazement of high art,
didn't have overwhelming feelings or just were not in their twenties
any more :-P

These people they called "philistines" ("Philister"), which was a
word they generically associated with "the enemy", as they all tended
to identify themselves a lot with the Jewish people (what with the
constant persecution and fightingÂ… it was a very natural parallelism
to draw for the German nationalist revolutionaries too! Honest!).

The Vandals "sack of Rome", which earned them their bad name, wasn't
vandalic either.

Valete bene

Marcus Salix Saverius

If you know a bit of Spanish, come and read Provincia Hispania's blog!
http://nrhispania.blogspot.com

From what I understand, you are correct.
Another mis-interpretation, courtesy of the Old Testament.

Vestinia, called Vesta
--- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

> Salve
>
> I can not put my finger on it but I remember reading that the
> Philistines were not Philistines but a rather cultured people and
> that the use of the term "philistine" is an injustice to them. Yes?
> No? don't care?
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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How can I unscribe from this mailing list?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lux" <luchi78@l...> wrote:

> How can I unscribe from this mailing list?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,



Sign in to Yahoo! Groups and go to the My Groups page.
Click on the Edit My Groups link at the top of the page.
Look for the group you wish to unsubscribe from, and check the
corresponding box on the right side of the page.
Click Save Changes at the bottom or top of the page.
The group will no longer be listed on the My Groups page, and you
will no longer receive messages.
To unsubscribe via email:

From your email program, send a blank message to:

groupname-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Make sure to replace "groupname" with the actual name of the group
(e.g., pastry_chefs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com).



Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Alternatively, you may wish to remain a member but reduce or
eliminate group email by changing your subscription option to No
Mail/Web only, Daily Digest, or Special Announcement.

Note: If you own a group, you must first give up your ownership in
the Members section of your group before you can unsubscribe on the
My Groups page.

The ancient Goths didn't have much in common with the modern variety, either; i.e., they didn't hang around wearing black and drinking caffeine and discussing existentialist philosophy. These two very different groups have a very tenuous connection involving a style of architecture, of all things.

Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Nauta

"Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus" <scorpioinvictus@...> wrote:

> nbsp; Salve Tiberi,
>
>nbsp; The Vandals were not entirely vandals as well, to name another example of an ancient people that changed into a noun to classify a group of people with certain characteristics :).
>
>nbsp; Vale bene,
>nbsp; Draco
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>    *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
>
>    
>    ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>    
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

Salvete omnes,

I checked on origins of word definitions. Here's what I found:


Philistines meaning the ill-behaved and ignorant. The word so applied
arose in Germany from the Charlies or Philisters, who were in
everlasting collision with the students; and in these "town and gown
rows" identified themselves with the town, called in our
universities "the snobs." Matthew Arnold, in the Cornhill Magazine,
applied the term Philistine to the middle class, which he says
is "ignorant, narrow-minded, and deficient in great ideas," insomuch
that the middle-class English are objects of contempt in the eyes of
foreigners.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Vestinia, called Vesta"
<optia_vesta@y...> wrote:

> From what I understand, you are correct.
> Another mis-interpretation, courtesy of the Old Testament.
>
> Vestinia, called Vesta
> --- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> > Salve
> >
> > I can not put my finger on it but I remember reading that the
> > Philistines were not Philistines but a rather cultured people and
> > that the use of the term "philistine" is an injustice to them.

Yes?

> > No? don't care?
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Julilla Sempronia Magna omnes SPD

Today is a happy day for me. It is indeed a pleasure to announce that
Gens Sempronia has a new son!

Decimus Sempronius Faustinius hails from Lacus Magni provincia. He is
Vexillar in the Legio XIV out of Milwaukee. His optio, from Gens
Cassia, recomended Nova Roma to him, and I thank him most warmly for
sending such a fine son!

I do not know yet whether Decimus has subscribed to the list, but
please welcome him when he does!

---
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| materfamilias,
@____@ Gens Sempronia
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/GensSempronia

What are all of you whining about?! Sheesh! I happen to bein
AFROTC, and we have formats for every "official" thing here, even
the non-official things. This year we even had to have a
particular format for our emails going through our listserver. As
much as I grumble when I have to format even my emails, we all
still seem to be coping rather well, and not too many people are
making a fuss, certainly not as much as you people are.

*ducks down and puts on his helmet while he waits for the
couter-attack*

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.IVL.MARIVS"
<c_iul_marius@y...> wrote:

> AVETE
>
> I would like to give only a little contribution to this discussion.
>
> From: G. Iulius Scaurus:
>
> >It means that we must depend more on our multilingual

citizens to vett

> translations of official communications (and I don't think every

time a

> magistrate posts to a list is an "official" communication).
>
> I think this is a pragmatic and balanced point of view. I agree

that

> "official" communications of Nova Roma must be

unexceptionable. Instead

> posts in ML may be a few inaccurate, even if intelligible. Every

person who

> posts in this ML highlight his/her desire to contribute in the

Res-Publica

> development. So any attempt to set he/she ridiculous is,

indirectly, a

> damage for the Res-Publica and not only for that person.
> I'm in contact with an US Citizen and we exchange e-mails in a

mixture of

> English, Italian and Latin. Each of us correct the other. I'm

improving my

> English and (probably in the future) my terrible Latin, he is

improving his

> Italian. This is, for my opinion, an example of win-win situation.

I think

> an example to follow.
>
>
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix:
>
> > I believe that Censor M. Octavius posted another

demographic list about a

> year and a half ago and it was still hovering about 75-77%. So,

there is no

> matter of arrogance involved its a matter of practicality, most

citizens in

> Nova Roma speak English.
>
> This is a very good information! So when the first demographic

statistics

> will certify a majority of German (for example) people all we'll

have to

> speak German ! ... just not to be arrogant ...
>
> VALETE
> C.IVL.MARIVS
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/23/03 8:16:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
luchi78@... writes:

> How can I unscribe from this mailing list?
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Can Loucetius Gellius Belenus contact very urgently regarding last minute
booking details for the upcoming Britannia gathering.

Many thanks,

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, ANTHLINK@A... wrote:

> >Maybe because I'm a native English speaker the whole concept of
> nouns having genders is baffling to me.
>
> Well, remember that language often reflects a people's culture,

and that

> Latin Europe was polytheist, where 'diety' was seen as BOTH

masculine (Gods) AND

> feminine (Goddesses)...
>
> ...with a patron diety for vitually every aspect of life:
> war, communication, motherhood, love, the hearth, the hunt, wine,

grain...

>

Yes, that's true. However, the Anglo-Saxons come from the same
culture as the Germans. And German has all the various gender
forms, as well. (This really is the hardest part of learning
German, I think--that, and words with more than 20 letters.) And
don't forget, "English" is also part Norman, too.

What is the gender for "walkman" or "computer" in French or Italian,
then?

~Danono
Iacoumus G.D.

how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : “Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)“ <mjk@...>
Date : 23 September 2003 04:47:36

Salve,

>
>It developed I think. Actually my French teacher once seriously
>pointed out to me that masculine things, more often than not are long
>and pointed and were equated to the male's member, things that are
>feminine are generally not. I thought that was an interesting
>observation.
>

Which fails to account for he has La Pite which she has Le Con...

Vib. Amb. Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : “Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)“ <mjk@...>
Date : 23 September 2003 04:47:36

Salve,

>
>It developed I think. Actually my French teacher once seriously
>pointed out to me that masculine things, more often than not are long
>and pointed and were equated to the male's member, things that are
>feminine are generally not. I thought that was an interesting
>observation.
>

Which fails to account for he has La Pite while she has Le Con...

Vib. Amb. Caesariensis.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From : iacomus_darrius <modpop@...>
Date : 23 September 2003 18:22:37

>
>What is the gender for “walkman“ or “computer“ in French or Italian,
>then?
>

Don't know about Walkman but the other two fascinate me for two reasons. First is that Computer in German is Die Rechnungsmaschine, fair enough feminine because Maschine is femnine (right back to the Greek) and it is a reckoning machine just originally an English Computer was a man (no women!) and machines were Electronic computers. However, the French is Ordinateur (masc), not a 'reckoning' or 'computing' device at all but one for 'ordering' and 'arranging', a glorified filing system. Equally interesting, since the word goes back to big computers, a little hand-held one is La calculatrice.]

Vib. Ambr. Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to the anonymous pater,
greetings.

> how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?

If he waits until the census has finished (at the end
of October) he will find that all the inactive members
of his gens have been demoted to the status of
'socii'.

If he wishes to have his clansmen banished from Nova
Roma altogether, he'll have to take them to court and
have them convicted for some very serious crime,
because that's the only way citizens can have their
citizenship removed without their consent.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <jlasalle@s...> wrote:

> how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Paterfamilias should email the Censors and the person being
removed from the gens....that should place the individual in question
in a NEMO status where they can then petition other Gentes to join or
create their own gens.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

A. Apollonius Cordus to M' Constantinus Serapio and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> However, it's intereseting to notice that, according
> to Livius, Rome
> had at least 53 Dictatores between 501 BC (T
> Larcius) and 301 BC (M
> Valerius Maximus). That's about a Dictator every 4
> years on an
> average.

This certainly does suggest a lot of dictators; it's
worth bearing in mind, though, that many Roman
families worked hard to give their ancestors high
positions in retrospect, as Cicero remarks ('Brutus'
62). The number of dictators listed in Livy or in the
fasti may be far higher than the number there were at
the time, the rest having been inserted by later
relatives for the greater glory of their dynasty.

There are articles on several examples of this in T.
P. Wiseman, 'Roman Drama and Roman History' (Univ. of
Exeter Press), particularly one describing the way the
historian Valerius Antias seems to have introduced his
ancestors into various famous stories including those
of Horatius Cocles at the bridge and Coriolanus.

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to Julilla Sempronia Magna and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Congratulations! And welcome, Sempronius Faustinius: I
hope you enjoy it here.

It's heartening to see another of the grand old clans
growing again.

And that makes me wonder - which other major
republican gentes can anyone think of that are
under-represented in public life? I don't remember
seeing many Aemilii or Caecillii Metelli about recently...

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

Salve,

Ah well, as in all languages there are some excetions to the rules.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@d...>
> Date : 23 September 2003 04:47:36
>
> Salve,
> >
> >It developed I think. Actually my French teacher once seriously
> >pointed out to me that masculine things, more often than not are
long
> >and pointed and were equated to the male's member, things that are
> >feminine are generally not. I thought that was an interesting
> >observation.
> >
> Which fails to account for he has La Pite which she has Le Con...
>
> Vib. Amb. Caesariensis.
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Iacomus Gladius Darrius and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> Yes, that's true. However, the Anglo-Saxons come
> from the same
> culture as the Germans. And German has all the
> various gender
> forms, as well. (This really is the hardest part of
> learning
> German, I think--that, and words with more than 20
> letters.) And
> don't forget, "English" is also part Norman, too.

Well, strictly speaking English also has noun genders.
It's just that (fairly sensibly, really) most
inanimate objects are neuter.

But even with such apparent simplicity, gender still
causes trouble in English, especially with pronouns.
Many people have trouble working out what the pronoun
should be for an individual person of indeterminate
gender and end up using 'they' or 'them', even though
there is only one person: they say 'if a person wants
to buy some bread they should go to the bakery' rather
than 'if a person wants to buy some bread he should go
to the bakery'. The same problem is, I suspect, why
few people use 'one' these days (most prefer to use
'you'): they don't feel comfortable saying 'if one
wants to buy some bread he should go to the bakery'.

Of course some (not all) feminist thinkers argue that
there is an inherent sexism in the fact that English
uses 'he' for as the singular pronoun for a person of
indeterminate gender, and that a new pronoun should be
invented or 'she' and 'he' should be alternated. As
sympathetic as I am to feminist theory and to the idea
that language is important in cultural conditioning, I
simply can't see this particular idea as anything more
than a misunderstanding of how the language works...

Goodness, this is the furthest off topic I've been for
a long time. You all look very small from over here.
Don't worry, I'm on my way back now...

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

Salvete, omnes -

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 09:05:40PM +0100, me-in-@... wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> >From : iacomus_darrius <modpop@...>
> Date : 23 September 2003 18:22:37
> >
> >What is the gender for “walkman“ or “computer“ in French or Italian,
> >then?
> >
> Don't know about Walkman but the other two fascinate me for two
> reasons. First is that Computer in German is Die Rechnungsmaschine,
> fair enough feminine because Maschine is femnine (right back to the
> Greek) and it is a reckoning machine just originally an English
> Computer was a man (no women!) and machines were Electronic computers.
> However, the French is Ordinateur (masc), not a 'reckoning' or
> 'computing' device at all but one for 'ordering' and 'arranging', a
> glorified filing system. Equally interesting, since the word goes back
> to big computers, a little hand-held one is La calculatrice.]

Whereas in Russian, it's gone from feminine (admittedly, the hokey and
unwieldy "Elektronno-Vychislitel'naya Mashina", or "EVM" _needed_ to be
changed) to masculine (which is simply a transliteration of English,
"kompyuter".) I'm not a linguist, but I don't think the change had much
to do with a shift in perceptions as a shift toward streamlining and
modernization - "kibernetika", which was the science studied by
prospective Russian CSEEs and such, is another term that's lost
currency.

Oh, BTW - "kal'kulator" has remained masculine throughout, and so has a
Walkman ("pleier". :) There are *a lot* of loan words in Russian, and it
doesn't seem to be interested in paying them back anytime soon.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sed fugit interae, fugit irreparabile tempus.
But meanwhile, the irreplaceable time escapes.
-- Vergil, "Georgica". Usually, you only quote the last three words.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:35:14PM +0100, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Iacomus Gladius Darrius and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Caius Minucius Scaevola A. Apollonio et omnes salutem.

> Of course some (not all) feminist thinkers argue that
> there is an inherent sexism in the fact that English
> uses 'he' for as the singular pronoun for a person of
> indeterminate gender, and that a new pronoun should be
> invented or 'she' and 'he' should be alternated. As
> sympathetic as I am to feminist theory and to the idea
> that language is important in cultural conditioning, I
> simply can't see this particular idea as anything more
> than a misunderstanding of how the language works...

Actually, the idea of GNPs (gender-neutral pronouns) goes quite a bit
further back than the above; the first proposals for them surfaced in
the late 1700s. There have been some fairly well-thought-out arguments
made for them, as well. However, they have failed the "common usage"
test (of which I'm glad, since I disliked the things from the very
first), and so that's that for now.

Anyone who wants to know more about the issue can take a look at the GNP
FAQ:

<http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/>


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes.
It is foolish to fear what you cannot avoid.
-- Cicero, "De officiis"

Avete Cai Minuci et Omnes;
There are *a lot* of loan words in Russian, and it

> doesn't seem to be interested in paying them back anytime soon.

- Cause they can't do it. The Russian word for money is 'dengi"
a borrow from Mongolian;)

vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

=-

> Sed fugit interae, fugit irreparabile tempus.
> But meanwhile, the irreplaceable time escapes.
> -- Vergil, "Georgica". Usually, you only quote the last three

words.

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Review of Early Roman History":

http://www.geocities.com/bwduncan/haids02.html

This site, created by Bradford Duncan as notes for students at the
Harker School, reviews Roman history from its origins to the Pyrrhic
War, based on Cary and Scullard's _A History of Rome: Down to the
Reign of Constantine_.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Welcome Decimus Sempronius Faustinus!!!

Dear friend be received with all the honors of our family. Gens Minia really
wishes that the gods bless you. Deep thought for you on behalf of all Gens
Minia.
We will make a prayer with the gods of your Gens tomorrow.

Hello dear Julilla and congratulation for your new citizen, we are happy
that your family increases! Receive our friendship!

Your friends, the Minii

vale,

Pompeius Minius Aquila Palladius
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Civis Gallia Provinciae
Civis Plebiae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

Ave, Pomponia Fabia; avete, omnes -

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 01:19:08AM -0000, Courtney Kirshner wrote:
> Avete Cai Minuci et Omnes;
>
> There are *a lot* of loan words in Russian, and it
> > doesn't seem to be interested in paying them back anytime soon.
>
> - Cause they can't do it. The Russian word for money is 'dengi"
> a borrow from Mongolian;)

<laugh> Good point. I was actually thinking of in-kind deals: there's
nothing in English quite like "pravda" or the lyrical quality of Russian
swearing...


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dubitando ad veritatem venimus.
We arrive at the truth being sceptical.
-- Pierre Abélard, "Sic et non?"

In a message dated 9/23/03 9:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

> how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?
>

Salve,

I know opinions were not asked for, but I wish to just point out that some
people are not active. I am not. I am not because of several points that
honestly I won't go into just with anyone. I'm not trying to be snotty here,
honest. It's just in defense of people who are just keeping to themselves for
whatever and have done no harm, I think it's not right or fair to remove them.
Thank you for listening.

Take care, be well, much love!
Vale,

~ Anneia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

>But even with such apparent simplicity, gender still
>causes trouble in English, especially with pronouns.
>Many people have trouble working out what the pronoun
>should be for an individual person of indeterminate
>gender and end up using 'they' or 'them', even though
>there is only one person: they say 'if a person wants
>to buy some bread they should go to the bakery' rather
>than 'if a person wants to buy some bread he should go
>to the bakery'. The same problem is, I suspect, why
>few people use 'one' these days (most prefer to use
>'you'): they don't feel comfortable saying 'if one
>wants to buy some bread he should go to the bakery'.

While grammatical purists insist this is so, the use of "they" and "their"
in this manner has ancient and honorable lineage. They have been in use in
just that way since at least Shakespeare.

>Of course some (not all) feminist thinkers argue that
>there is an inherent sexism in the fact that English
>uses 'he' for as the singular pronoun for a person of
>indeterminate gender, and that a new pronoun should be
>invented or 'she' and 'he' should be alternated. As
>sympathetic as I am to feminist theory and to the idea
>that language is important in cultural conditioning, I
>simply can't see this particular idea as anything more
>than a misunderstanding of how the language works...

Given that the statement doesn't really confuse things, what's the
concern? "If someone goes to the bakery and they buy bread..." doesn't
really leave any real confusion. The "confusion" is a technical one (that
some*one* is plural). Whereas, saying "... and he buys bread..." while
correct according to the pure, official rules of English grammar, does
present actual confusion--it leaves the implication in the listener's mind
that the unidentified individual (someone) is male.

English has benefited greatly over the centuries from not having a body
ruling on what is proper. Instead, it remains vigorous and only
half-domesticated. I'm rather a fan of its throwing off the arbitrary
grammatical definitions that--in many cases--have no relationship at all to
the actual language, as used and spoken, having been artificially grafted
on in order to try to emulate the imagined superior grammatical purity of
Latin and Greek.

Anglophones of the world, unite, you have nothing to lose but these silly
grammatical ornaments!


M. Umbrius Ursus

"No one gets rich quickly if he is honest." -- Menander

Salvete omnes,

The way I see this, it is currently the case, that only people who speak English ARE elected as magistrates. Since the people allready vote the way you seem to like, why do we need a law??

Valete, TiAnO

> So WHO is going to appoint the dictator while the
> magistrates and Senate are running around looking for
> translators?

Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> How can I unscribe from this mailing list?

Uhh just click the link that is on the bottom of every message and send a
blank email....

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Salve

I am also another inacative member, not necessarily through choice, but in my case because I am disabled and have no internet at home, so am reduced to using the local library when physically able. So while I read all emails, digests etc. I do not take an active part in day to day affairs. I wish I could, but I am probably not the only one in a similar position, for whatever reason. And as such, it is not fair to discriminate against someone for being non-active unless you know the reason why, because we can't all do everthing we might wish to.

Iulia Vespasia

--- forthegodshonor@... wrote:
In a message dated 9/23/03 9:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

> how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?
>

Salve,

I know opinions were not asked for, but I wish to just point out that some
people are not active. I am not. I am not because of several points that
honestly I won't go into just with anyone. I'm not trying to be snotty here,
honest. It's just in defense of people who are just keeping to themselves for
whatever and have done no harm, I think it's not right or fair to remove them.
Thank you for listening.

Take care, be well, much love!
Vale,

~ Anneia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_____________________________________________________________
Sign up for Private, FREE email from Mail.ie at http://www.mail.ie

Salve Iulis Vespasia,

I agree with you.

But, please, can you give me some informations? Please, feel free to
answer privately if you prefer.
I studied and worked about internet tools like websites or softwares
for disabled people. I went in Galles and London to follow the
latest news and learn the development of websites with an high
accessibility to people with disabilities.
During the last year I tested some popular website with tools like
Bobby or WAI test. From the last year I'm searching to
develop "accessibile" websites and to correct old websites.
Now the question: what do you think about the accessibility for
disabled people of our main website www.novaroma.org?
Please, give me your opinion, I would like to correct it if needed.
Thank you very much

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Scriba Curatoris Aranei



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Karen Blackburn <Karen-Julia@m...>
wrote:

> Salve
>
> I am also another inacative member, not necessarily through

choice, but in my case because I am disabled and have no internet at
home, so am reduced to using the local library when physically
able. So while I read all emails, digests etc. I do not take an
active part in day to day affairs. I wish I could, but I am
probably not the only one in a similar position, for whatever
reason. And as such, it is not fair to discriminate against someone
for being non-active unless you know the reason why, because we
can't all do everthing we might wish to.

>
> Iulia Vespasia
>
> --- forthegodshonor@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/23/03 9:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> I know opinions were not asked for, but I wish to just point out

that some

> people are not active. I am not. I am not because of several

points that

> honestly I won't go into just with anyone. I'm not trying to be

snotty here,

> honest. It's just in defense of people who are just keeping to

themselves for

> whatever and have done no harm, I think it's not right or fair to

remove them.

> Thank you for listening.
>
> Take care, be well, much love!
> Vale,
>
> ~ Anneia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Sign up for Private, FREE email from Mail.ie at http://www.mail.ie

A. Apollonius Cordus to M. Umbrius Ursus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> While grammatical purists insist this is so, the use
> of "they" and "their"
> in this manner has ancient and honorable lineage.
> They have been in use in
> just that way since at least Shakespeare.

Well, Shakespeare also wrote 'here is posies', but he
wrote it as dialogue for a woman who had just gone off
her rocker. :)

But I'd be interested to know where in Shakespeare
this usage occurs - can you remember any of the
references?

> Given that the statement doesn't really confuse
> things, what's the
> concern? "If someone goes to the bakery and they
> buy bread..." doesn't
> really leave any real confusion. The "confusion" is
> a technical one (that
> some*one* is plural). Whereas, saying "... and he
> buys bread..." while
> correct according to the pure, official rules of
> English grammar, does
> present actual confusion--it leaves the implication
> in the listener's mind
> that the unidentified individual (someone) is male.

Only if the listener or reader doesn't know that 'he'
doesn't necessarily refer to a male person! Yes, in
most cases the use of 'they' causes no more confusion
than the use of 'he', but it can do, for example when
two people of unspecified gender are being discussed:
'so there are two people, and one of them goes to the
bakery, and they say "can I have some bread?"' creates
the impression that only one person has gone to the
bakery but that both people have said 'can I have some
bread?'.

I absolutely agree that language must change - it will
change anyway, and if change of any kind is resisted
you just get divergence into two independent
languages, as happened with church Latin and the
Romance vernaculars (he says, struggling to bring in a
vaguely Roman topic). But some changes are better than
others. I support changes which create new words for
concepts that don't have words already, new items of
usage that meet an unmet need, but I don't like
changes which tend to replace one perfectly good word
or usage with another; and I especially dislike the
tendency of words or usages to abandon their existing
jobs to do this, since it leaves us with two ways to
say one thing and no way to say another.

As it is, 'they' is very useful as the pronoun for the
third person plural. We already have three different
pronouns for the third person singular, and if 'he' is
unacceptable as a non-gender pronoun there are already
the widely used 'he or she' and 's/he'. What earthly
good can be derived from making 'they' take on extra
work when the work is already being done? It makes
even less sense than the exctinction of 'thee' at the
hands of 'you'. At this rate we shall be left with a
single, enormous AOL-Time-Warner of a pronoun and lots
of unemployed 'I's, 'thee's and 'she's begging on the
streets. :)

Seriously, though, if anyone wants to respond we'd
better take this off-list while the list is still
quiet - it'll be election season soon, and there will
be no space for the battles of 'he' and 'they' among
those of the 'Boni' (Goodfellas?) and the
'We-are-not-a-faction' (are they? aren't they? do they know?).

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

Salvete Omnes,

Nova Roma's Constution gives the leaders of it's Gens
control over who can be a member of that Gens. If He
wishes to set some minimal standards for his Gens
mates he has every right to do so, and to eject those
who fail to meet those standards.

If a Gens wishes to set actvity standards they have
every right to do so, be they as simple as paying the
taxes or as complex as having a High speed connection
so they can attend live video Gens meetings.

Once a Gens has set those standards its up to its
members to meet them, and if they fail to do so for
whatever reason then they have no right to force
themselves on the Gens.

--- Karen Blackburn <Karen-Julia@...> wrote:

> Salve
>
> I am also another inacative member, not necessarily
> through choice, but in my case because I am disabled
> and have no internet at home, so am reduced to using
> the local library when physically able. So while I
> read all emails, digests etc. I do not take an
> active part in day to day affairs. I wish I could,
> but I am probably not the only one in a similar
> position, for whatever reason. And as such, it is
> not fair to discriminate against someone for being
> non-active unless you know the reason why, because
> we can't all do everthing we might wish to.
>
> Iulia Vespasia
>
> --- forthegodshonor@... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/23/03 9:20:47 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > how does a paterfamilias remove inactive members?
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> I know opinions were not asked for, but I wish to
> just point out that some
> people are not active. I am not. I am not because
> of several points that
> honestly I won't go into just with anyone. I'm not
> trying to be snotty here,
> honest. It's just in defense of people who are just
> keeping to themselves for
> whatever and have done no harm, I think it's not
> right or fair to remove them.
> Thank you for listening.
>
> Take care, be well, much love!
> Vale,
>
> ~ Anneia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________

> Sign up for Private, FREE email from Mail.ie at
> http://www.mail.ie
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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Iacomus Gladius Darrius to all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> But even with such apparent simplicity, gender still
> causes trouble in English, especially with pronouns.
> Many people have trouble working out what the pronoun
> should be for an individual person of indeterminate
> gender and end up using 'they' or 'them', even though
> there is only one person: they say 'if a person wants
> to buy some bread they should go to the bakery' rather
> than 'if a person wants to buy some bread he should go
> to the bakery'. The same problem is, I suspect, why
> few people use 'one' these days (most prefer to use
> 'you'): they don't feel comfortable saying 'if one
> wants to buy some bread he should go to the bakery'.
>

English teachers have always said that using 'they' or 'them' is
incorrect, and the proper form is to use the stultified 'he or she.'

I disagree with that. I use 'they,' and it sounds correct to me and
90% of native English speakers. I think it's because English's
closest linguistic cousin (apart from Breton and Dutch) is High
German.

The German pronoun "Sie" is both feminine, plural, and neutral
plural (as I recall). In other words, it corresponds to the use
of "they" in English in the neutral plural form as well.

My point is still just that English has an advantage of the gender-
neutral nouns that make many languages difficult to learn.
(Although English is difficult to learn, I understand, because of
the inconsistent spelling and facial tics necessary to pronounce it
correctly.)

I think the conversation is on-topic, after all, since we're talking
about the evolution of language from Latin roots. A fairly
simplified Latin as a form of Interlingua sounds like a good idea to
me. Bellissimo.

I could just go abroad and shout at everyone in English until they
understand me. I understand that's a longstanding tradition, too.

~Danono
Iacomus Gladius Darrius

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Edictum Consulare CFQ VIII de Comitiorum Centuriatorum Convocatione

As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Centuriata is hereby
convened to approve the laws listed in the Agenda below.


Formal debate (Contio) shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Wednesday the
24th of September

Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Monday the 29th of September.

Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Saturday the 4th of October

===========================
Agenda

Comitia Centuriata
1. Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum (The Fabian law on
the rules for Comitia Centuriata)
2. LEX FABIA CENTURIATA (Fabian law on Centuries)
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness