G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "The Roman Aqueducts and Water Systems":

http://academic.bowdoin.edu/classics/research/moyer/index.shtml

This site, created by Jason Moyer, presents the results of Bowdoin
College independent study project on the water systems of ancient Rome
with a bibliography and archaeological photographs of interest.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

In a message dated 9/30/03 10:57:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
christer.edling@... writes:

> It was with great sadness that my Colleague and I had to recommend
> the Plebeian Aedile Illustrious Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus to
> resign. He have had a lot of problems with paying taxes. In the end
> the taxes were not paid, even though both my Colleague and I thoughts
> so. You could call it the human factor. According to the law every
> elected Magistrates need to have paid taxes, so to resign was the
> only option.
>
>

Consul,
Are you telling me that among the sitting Senate and the Curule Magistrates
not one could found to pay this Aedile's tax? And why was the Senate just
informed of this? Had it been done before the fact, we could have taken up a
collection to pay this tax, Hades I would have paid his tax, rather than letting a
hard working man be forced to resign.
What about your vaunted cohors? Not one there could pay the tax either?

I remind you Consul, this is not the Principate and you are not Imperator.
You are ignoring the Senate. It is there to advise and help you with your
decision process. We, the Conscript Fathers, are your advisory board, not your
cohors. That is our function. Keep that in mind before the next crisis comes.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quirites!

The highly valued Aedile Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus was
offered help with paying his taxes and if he took this offer or not I
don't know yet. I also suggested that he should candidate for the
replacement period that the Senate will appoint a new Plebeian
Aedile. If he will do that is up to him.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

> Are all the plebeians supposed to be on the Comitia
> Plebis Tributa list or just the Tribunes?

All Plebeians should be on that list!! the Tribunes have a separate list of
our own!
Please join us! Now it is quiet but when the voting is over the Plebeians
need to decide what their voting law will be (the same as the Senior
Consul's or a rather simplistic one that I came up with).

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salve Senior Consul,

<It was with great sadness that my Colleague and I had to recommend
<the Plebeian Aedile Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus to
<resign. He have had a lot of problems with paying taxes. In the end
<the taxes were not paid, even though both my Colleague and I thoughts
<so.

To say it in an extremely colloquial manner-- this simply sucks.

If I am not mistaken, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britanlives in Britannia and
his taxes are 6 dollars. I am certainly not rich, but I would have paid the
6 dollars for him. Eventually sometime in our lifetimes he could have sent
me 3 pounds in the post in return. I spend more everyday on cigarettes and
coffee! I wish that he or one of the Consules would have posted his problem
to this list, the Senate list or at least let his felllow Plebeian
magistates know. I know for a fact that I am not the only person who would
have volunteered to help him out.

If I pay his taxes now could he be reinstated? I think now it would be 12
dollars instead. He is really needed for the Ludi instead of people like me
muddling about trying to figure out what to do to help!

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Tribunus Plebis

Ex Officio Praetorium

EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE

The praetores of Nova Roma hereby define the guidelines for
appropriate usage of Nova Roma's public communication forum, currently
located at:
Nova_Roma@yahoogroups.com

These guidelines are based on the guidelines previously issued by
our predecessors (Pompeia Cornelia and Patricia Cassia). As praetores
of Nova Roma, though, we keep the right to change these guidelines in
the future.

I. The Nova Roma forum (herein referred to as 'the list') is set up
so that replies will automatically be sent to the entire list. Please
keep this in mind when you are replying. You are not issuing a
private email. If your reply is intended for only one member, and has
no benefit to the rest of the list subscribers, consider sending it
privately.

II. Posts that merely voice agreement with a previous post without
expanding on an issue in any way are discouraged.

III. Please trim your posts. When replying to a thread, snip
unnecessary sections of the original post for brevity, and indicate
where you have done so by printing <snipped> at the appropriate space.
Correct usage of snipping prevents large posts that can quickly fill
subscribers mailboxes

IV. If you feel you must dispute or criticize another person's post,
consider doing so in private.
Sometimes a person makes a genuine mistake, and your gentle correction
via private email means much more to them than potentially
embarrassing them in the forum over what is an innocent error. We know
that during political debates, private exchanges are impractical.
Please use discretion in this area.

V. It is entirely appropriate to disagree publicly with another's
stated views or another's actions as they report such, or with the
actions of Nova Roma's Magistrates, Senate or otherwise appointed
officials.
Nova Roma is an organization of individuals from a wide variety of
nations, religions, cultural backgrounds and political viewpoints, and
it is only reasonable that our views should differ.

Please consider the following when expressing disagreement of opposing
viewpoints:

* Express respect for the person and the entitlement to his opinion,
and faith in his or her good intentions.

* Point out any themes in which you do not agree.

* If in the criticism of a person's actions, perhaps in the capacity
of a magistrate or senator, point out specifically which actions you
are referring to. Quote the message number of the post in
which you base your account and opinions. This makes things more
objective and often helpful to the person in question, as to what,
specifically, you are referring to, and your issues with same.

* In an academic debate, endeavor to offer references to back up your
assertions.

* At all times maintain politeness in the expression of your opinion
and endeavour to respect the rights and opinions of others.

Inappropriate behaviour includes:

the use of profane language; misrepresentation of the truth for the
purpose of making another person look foolish; calling others names;
criticizing a poster's personal character as opposed to criticizing his
ideas; making derrogatory, belittling, subjective statements about the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome (quoting from a myth does not apply) or
belittling deities of other religions for entertainment. Further, in
the interests of those under 18, sexual references must be strictly
within the context of an historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to
be made in private.

The arbitrary advertisment of goods and services (SPAM) is not
permitted on the Nova Roma mainlist, unless the advertiser is a member
of Nova Roma's marketplace, the Macellum. Macellum merchants are
welcome to advertise from time to time in a low-key fashion. This
entails a signature line/file, a one-time announcement of initial
affiliation with the Macellum, advertising in response to a post of
inquiry made in the forum, or an ad once every three months or so
advertising your presence in the Macellum.

VI. If you feel that a post is inappropriate in any way, consider
mailing the individual concerned privately, explaining your rationale
for grievance and asking for clarification"

If you would like to talk to us confidentially about a particular
post, please contact us at praetors@... .

VII: During the time leading up to elections (held each November and
occasionally at other times if offices become vacant) this list is one
of the forums where candidates express their views and present their
qualifications to the populace. All of the strictures governing
appropriate behaviour mentioned hereto, shall remain in place and
apply to all candidates and their supporters.

VIII: Please do not give out personal information (i.e., address or
phone number) to the list. While it would be pleasant to believe we
are all good-hearted and sane, we are not; you cannot trust in that.

IX: Due to the influxes of SPAM and past incidents of posts from
those who wish nothing but to cause disruption and insult to the list,
or particular subscribers of the list, to wit, TROLLS, it has become
necessary to place all new list members on Moderated Status, just
until we are satisfied that such persons are indeed here to celebrate
aspects of Roma Antiquita and Nova Roma, as opposed to being here for
unjustifiable reasons. This is unfortunate, but it has proved
necessary.

X: Language Policies

The forum of Roma Antiquita was a large venue, with people of
different languages conversing, a few in this corner, a few in that
corner.
Rome was a very mulicultured place in her glory. Mind you official
information was in Latin, and in some cases Greek, but people were
free to speak informally as they wished in the language of their
choice.
Our constitution mandates freedom of communication provided it is not
dangerous or disruptive.

Currently, the praetores can understand Latin, Spanish, French,
Italian and Portuguese, so messages in those languages are most
welcome. For other languages, help can be obtained from the decuria of
interpreters of Nova Roma.

Thanks to the decuria of interpreters and to several magistrates or
legates who are willing to assist with list moderation, 'informal'
communication in the forum is open to most main languages. Feel free
to post in English, Latin, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Fench, German,
Russian, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish or any Slavik language. The
Praetors have many to thank for efforts in this regard.

***Exception: This does not contravene the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
Publicus
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lege/index/html
which stipulates, though comitial mandate, that any offical government
legislation or priestly decrees must be issued in English or Latin
where applicable, so they can be translated verbatim into other
languages to be more easily understood by the entirety of the
populace.

XI. Topics of Discussion

The main focus of this list is Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua. However,
as members of a diverse international community we all have lives and
interests outside of Nova Roma. It is perfectly acceptable to discuss
non-Roman topics here, though keep in mind that not everyone may
share your interest in these topics.

XII: The Praetors have the imperium to govern the list, but prefer to
encourage positive interaction as opposed to punishing negative
behaviour. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these
guidelines aforementioned, the following escalated courses of
action shall be taken:

1.- A private memo from the Praetors' office or a Scribal designate,
stating the incident of infarction, and a reminder to review the
guidelines. Often people who are new to the list are not intentionally
trying to upset anybody.

2.- Another private memo as above.

3.- Moderated status (the poster may post but all posts
they issue are first reviewed by the Praetors or their designate).
The length of moderation shall be determined by the number of offences
in the past, the severity of the violation, and the intent to violate.
No citizen shall be kept in moderate status for more than 2 (two)
months
without a firm sentence issued by a legal court as described by the
Lex Salicia Iudiciaria:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

(For example: Nobody is going to be placed on moderated status for an
extended time for failure to trim posts or for saying 'me too')



Gnaeus Salix Astur,
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetores

Salvete quirites,

Here's a link to a silly site featuring a Segway personal
scooter converted to look vaguely like a Roman chariot.

http://www.waldenwoods.org/eswing/photo3.htm

-- Marinus

Salve Marinus,

ahahahhahahhaha :-D
wonderful pics ... :-)
Maybe we could organize a race os scooters like the pics in the next
Ludi. I could transform my black Vespa in a fast red chariot ...
LOL :-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salvete quirites,
>
> Here's a link to a silly site featuring a Segway personal
> scooter converted to look vaguely like a Roman chariot.
>
> http://www.waldenwoods.org/eswing/photo3.htm
>
> -- Marinus

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

> > Are all the plebeians supposed to be on the
> Comitia
> > Plebis Tributa list or just the Tribunes?
>
> All Plebeians should be on that list!! the Tribunes
> have a separate list of
> our own!
> Please join us! Now it is quiet but when the voting
> is over the Plebeians
> need to decide what their voting law will be (the
> same as the Senior
> Consul's or a rather simplistic one that I came up
> with).
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
>

The Plebs should NOT have the same voting procedure as
the Centuries. That would be ahistoric. The Tribal
assemblies had very similar voting procedures, the
main differance being that the Plebs weren't under the
Religous restrictions that the People's assembly were
under. These were different (and more simple) than the
Centuries.



=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
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Salvete Omnes,
Nice chariot...bad portrayal of a senator.


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ladies and Gentlemen;

Enclosed please find a last minute notification for this opportunity.
Note the mention of a poor response from Nova Roma, which is the purpose
of this E-Mail.

I am assured by John Ebel, "Maximus" Gladius the Sumna Palus of the
"Ludi Gladitore" that this is the best opportunity since sliced bread to
tell the world about Nova Roma, who we are and what we do. I cannot
attend sadly,because of finanvcail and physical constraints, for the
same reasons I do not attend the Southern large Civil War Events, but
there is ample opportunity for those of you who may want to carry Nova
Roma's message to a wider exposure in the world today.

Anyone interested should contact the writer of the original letter right
away. I am instructed that time is of the essence.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senior Tribuna!

As I said the Consuls didn't know about the problem until lately and
when we got the correct information Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio
Britannicus was offered to get help with his taxes. There was no
problem with that. The problem was observed and posted to this list
by a citizen and everyone was able to check it out. The law is public
and possible to read at the Tabularium.

Please, read my previous mails in this matter it answers your
questions. I agree with You as I have said before and would have
liked to keep Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus. There is
no problem with reinstating Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio
Britannicus as Plebeian Aedile if his taxes are paid (he may already
have accepted an offer) and he decides to candidate as replacement. I
assure You that I will be glad to support his candidacy in the Senate.

>Salve Senior Consul,
>
><It was with great sadness that my Colleague and I had to recommend
><the Plebeian Aedile Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus to
><resign. He have had a lot of problems with paying taxes. In the end
><the taxes were not paid, even though both my Colleague and I thoughts
><so.
>
>To say it in an extremely colloquial manner-- this simply sucks.
>
>If I am not mistaken, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britanlives in Britannia and
>his taxes are 6 dollars. I am certainly not rich, but I would have paid the
>6 dollars for him. Eventually sometime in our lifetimes he could have sent
>me 3 pounds in the post in return. I spend more everyday on cigarettes and
>coffee! I wish that he or one of the Consules would have posted his problem
>to this list, the Senate list or at least let his felllow Plebeian
>magistates know. I know for a fact that I am not the only person who would
>have volunteered to help him out.
>
>If I pay his taxes now could he be reinstated? I think now it would be 12
>dollars instead. He is really needed for the Ludi instead of people like me
>muddling about trying to figure out what to do to help!
>
>Vale,
>Diana Moravia
>Tribunus Plebis
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

>
> All Plebeians should be on that list!! the Tribunes
> have a separate list of
> our own!
> Please join us! Now it is quiet but when the voting
> is over the Plebeians
> need to decide what their voting law will be (the
> same as the Senior
> Consul's or a rather simplistic one that I came up
> with).
>
>

What's the address for the list?


Lucius Quintius Constantius


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

Salve,

Here it is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/?yguid=68807234


Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, politicog <politicog@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@p...> wrote:
>
> >
> > All Plebeians should be on that list!! the Tribunes
> > have a separate list of
> > our own!
> > Please join us! Now it is quiet but when the voting
> > is over the Plebeians
> > need to decide what their voting law will be (the
> > same as the Senior
> > Consul's or a rather simplistic one that I came up
> > with).
> >
> >
> What's the address for the list?
>
>
> Lucius Quintius Constantius
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius Drusus. Salve.

Due to my work, I have been unable to respond to postings on the list for the last week. I wanted to ask a question about your post.
Since NR is incorporated in the USA, why can we not use a few experimental oppidii and muncipii to work out some of the potential bugs while NR's magistracy works to get the corporation established in Europe and South/Central America?
If the Lex is approved on a time period trial basis, it would provide the opportunity to see whether local groups will help or hurt NR as a whole.
Please let me know how you feel about this question.
Vale.

Salve,
I was looking over the laws in my home State this
morning. Foreign Corporations, and that includes ones
incorporated in another USA State, like Maine, are
required to register with the Georgia Secratary of
States Corporate Divison if they do business in the
state of Georgia. This includes Non Profits. This has
to be done each year, and the annual fee is $30.00.

So if we had a local group in the state of Georgia we
would have to register Nova Roma with the state, and
it would cost Nova Roma 30 dollars per year. If the
other US States have the same laws and the same fees,
then we are looking at 30 times 50 or 1,500 Dollars a
year expenses just to operate local groups in the
United States.

--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius
> Drusus. Salve.
>
> Due to my work, I have been unable to respond to
> postings on the list for the last week. I wanted to
> ask a question about your post.
> Since NR is incorporated in the USA, why can we not
> use a few experimental oppidii and muncipii to work
> out some of the potential bugs while NR's magistracy
> works to get the corporation established in Europe
> and South/Central America?
> If the Lex is approved on a time period trial basis,
> it would provide the opportunity to see whether
> local groups will help or hurt NR as a whole.
> Please let me know how you feel about this question.
> Vale.
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

VICESIMA QUARTA
LEGION XXIV MEDIA ATLANTIA
Defending the Frontiers of Ancient Rome
in the Mid-Atlantic Province of North America

Salve et Salutatio Commilitones:

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas
George W. Metz Praefectus / Commander
13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073
legionxxiv@... 610-353-4982
www.legionxxiv.org

John Ebel, Summa Palus, Lead Gladiator
Box 2146 - East Hampton, NY 11937
631-329-2430 home gladius1@...

NASHVILLE MOVIE SHOOT AND ROMAN FEST
Further information and clarifications.

The Dead Line for committing to this event is approaching !!!
Please - We need to hear from you - Yes - No - Maybe - so we
can inform the production company, Champion One, to what extent
we can support the Nashville Project. They have their own dead
lines as to being able to engage the film crews and other support personnel. Contact me at legionxxiv@... or John Ebel
at gladius1@... with your intentions.
We need soldier-legionaries, gladiators, civilians, senators or any
other Roman era impressions to take part.

The City of Nashville, Tennessee and Champion One Productions
is sponsoring a Roman Reenactment Festival in conjunction with
the shooting of a feature film trailer on the grounds surrounding the
replica of the Greek Parthenon, a giant edifice based on how the actual Parthenon in Athens, Greece, looked in its full glory in ancient
times, with a 40 foot gilded statue of Athena in the main sanctuary.

The Festival and Filming will take place on Sat. Sun. & Mon -
March 27, 28, 29 - 2004.
One day will be for outdoor shooting and another day will be
devoted to mostly inside shooting. The last day or one in between
will be a reenactor's event hosted by the City of Nashville.
There will be THOUSANDS of spectators. If you want to show your
stuff, this is the time to do it, Romans.

The producers are ardent Roma-philes, as we are, and are trying to make this an annual "All-Roman" event. This could be the beginning
of some real recognition and effective publicity for Roman
reenacting in the USA. Gary Barbosa, of Champion One, came to Hollis Maine to inspect Legions XXIV and VIIII, along with our
Ludus Magnus Gladiators at Roman Market Days and was quite
impressed.
He is looking for up to 40 legionaries, gladiators, citizens, and other
Roman reenactors to take part in the filming of the "trailer"; which
will be presented to movie producers for possible production
into a major Roman themed motion picture. All reenactors and
citizens from allied Legions, NovaRoma and other "romanphiles"
are encouraged and urged to participate. Hotel accommodations
for Saturday and Sunday Nights will be provided to participating
reenactors.
Our Summa Palus, John Ebel, is serving as the point person for
this very promising reenactment event. He will need a photo
(one for each outfit you would be wearing) of each of you in full
Roman gear, soldier, gladiator, citizen, whatever.

Check with John first at gladius1@... as he will review
the photos he has on-hand and may be able to provide a shot for you.
Shortly he will be sending or has sent by regular mail a registration
form, which I hope you will fill out and sign and get back to him
promptly at Box 2146 East Hampton, NY 11937-2146. His home
phone is 631-329-2430. Best time to call is in the morning or
evening, 7PM to not later than 8:30PM, please. John retires early
and gets up early in the morning. OR, call the Commander, most
any time, at 610-353-4982.

The Dead Line set by Gary Barbosa of Champion One is
October 15, so we must move quickly.
You will need to confirm your intentions within the next week or so.
So, set those dates aside, polish your armor, have your hair set and
nails manicured! - And be ready for your "Close-Up"!

See Legion XXIV's "Engine of Terror" at
www.legionxxiv.org/ballistapage
Check our Website. It has links to other reenactment Roman
Legions worldwide, Historical Sources and Suppliers.
Pages deal with Standards & Guidelines, Equipment, Weapons
and Armor. Extensive Timeline, Glossary and Photo Gallery Thru
Time. Other pages deal with the History of Rome and its Legions,
Gladiatorial Combat and the Colosseum. Check it Out!

Thanking you for your interest in Legion XXIV and support of the
Nashville Event,

I manere in Viresium et Honorare
I remain in Strength and Honor

(take your pick)
Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Republica
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic

Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Imperi
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Empire

Gallio / George

8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

I For one will not be taking part in this unless some
more details are made availble. I Know nothing about
this project other than they plan on saving money by
getting free extras whom they don't have to provide
costumes for.

What will the name of this movie be? Will any
historians be invited to review the script? will it be
a project that I can be proud of supporting, or will
it be like the movie "Druids" that everyone was
recently blasting on this list.

There are allready too many poorly made Roman movies,
I want no part in creating another one.

--- Legion XXIV <legionxxiv@...> wrote:

>
> VICESIMA QUARTA
> LEGION XXIV MEDIA ATLANTIA
> Defending the Frontiers of Ancient Rome
> in the Mid-Atlantic Province of North America
>
> Salve et Salutatio Commilitones:
>
> Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas
> George W. Metz Praefectus / Commander
> 13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073
> legionxxiv@... 610-353-4982
> www.legionxxiv.org
>
> John Ebel, Summa Palus, Lead Gladiator
> Box 2146 - East Hampton, NY 11937
> 631-329-2430 home gladius1@...
>
> NASHVILLE MOVIE SHOOT AND ROMAN FEST
> Further information and clarifications.
>
> The Dead Line for committing to this event is
> approaching !!!
> Please - We need to hear from you - Yes - No - Maybe
> - so we
> can inform the production company, Champion One, to
> what extent
> we can support the Nashville Project. They have
> their own dead
> lines as to being able to engage the film crews and
> other support personnel. Contact me at
> legionxxiv@... or John Ebel
> at gladius1@... with your intentions.
> We need soldier-legionaries, gladiators, civilians,
> senators or any
> other Roman era impressions to take part.
>
> The City of Nashville, Tennessee and Champion One
> Productions
> is sponsoring a Roman Reenactment Festival in
> conjunction with
> the shooting of a feature film trailer on the
> grounds surrounding the
> replica of the Greek Parthenon, a giant edifice
> based on how the actual Parthenon in Athens, Greece,
> looked in its full glory in ancient
> times, with a 40 foot gilded statue of Athena in the
> main sanctuary.
>
> The Festival and Filming will take place on Sat.
> Sun. & Mon -
> March 27, 28, 29 - 2004.
> One day will be for outdoor shooting and another day
> will be
> devoted to mostly inside shooting. The last day or
> one in between
> will be a reenactor's event hosted by the City of
> Nashville.
> There will be THOUSANDS of spectators. If you want
> to show your
> stuff, this is the time to do it, Romans.
>
> The producers are ardent Roma-philes, as we are, and
> are trying to make this an annual "All-Roman" event.
> This could be the beginning
> of some real recognition and effective publicity for
> Roman
> reenacting in the USA. Gary Barbosa, of Champion
> One, came to Hollis Maine to inspect Legions XXIV
> and VIIII, along with our
> Ludus Magnus Gladiators at Roman Market Days and was
> quite
> impressed.
> He is looking for up to 40 legionaries, gladiators,
> citizens, and other
> Roman reenactors to take part in the filming of the
> "trailer"; which
> will be presented to movie producers for possible
> production
> into a major Roman themed motion picture. All
> reenactors and
> citizens from allied Legions, NovaRoma and other
> "romanphiles"
> are encouraged and urged to participate. Hotel
> accommodations
> for Saturday and Sunday Nights will be provided to
> participating
> reenactors.
> Our Summa Palus, John Ebel, is serving as the point
> person for
> this very promising reenactment event. He will need
> a photo
> (one for each outfit you would be wearing) of each
> of you in full
> Roman gear, soldier, gladiator, citizen, whatever.
>
> Check with John first at gladius1@... as
> he will review
> the photos he has on-hand and may be able to provide
> a shot for you.
> Shortly he will be sending or has sent by regular
> mail a registration
> form, which I hope you will fill out and sign and
> get back to him
> promptly at Box 2146 East Hampton, NY 11937-2146.
> His home
> phone is 631-329-2430. Best time to call is in the
> morning or
> evening, 7PM to not later than 8:30PM, please. John
> retires early
> and gets up early in the morning. OR, call the
> Commander, most
> any time, at 610-353-4982.
>
> The Dead Line set by Gary Barbosa of Champion One
> is
> October 15, so we must move quickly.
> You will need to confirm your intentions within the
> next week or so.
> So, set those dates aside, polish your armor, have
> your hair set and
> nails manicured! - And be ready for your
> "Close-Up"!
>
> See Legion XXIV's "Engine of Terror" at
> www.legionxxiv.org/ballistapage
> Check our Website. It has links to other
> reenactment Roman
> Legions worldwide, Historical Sources and Suppliers.
>
> Pages deal with Standards & Guidelines, Equipment,
> Weapons
> and Armor. Extensive Timeline, Glossary and Photo
> Gallery Thru
> Time. Other pages deal with the History of Rome and
> its Legions,
> Gladiatorial Combat and the Colosseum. Check it
> Out!
>
> Thanking you for your interest in Legion XXIV and
> support of the
> Nashville Event,
>
> I manere in Viresium et Honorare
> I remain in Strength and Honor
>
> (take your pick)
> Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Republica
> Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic
>
> Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Imperi
> Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Empire
>
> Gallio / George
>
> 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

Hello, there!

I was wondering if anyone here might be able tio aid me in my
research. I am currently wishing to research the cakes and wines
which were used in the ritews for various Gods and Goddesses. For
example, the devotees of Pan made honey cakes for Him (which I have
only heard, and would like toi further research and validate),
etc... I would like to research the cakes and wine so-used by
various cultures, such as the Greek Gods, Roman Gods, even throughout
Celtc and other European countries, and the Middle Eastern Gods (i.e.
the Queen of Heaven), et al. I find such history fascinating!!!

Oh, about the cakes for the Queen of Heaven: I have heard (and am
hoping to further research, to either validate it, or otherwise) that
these may have been in the form of the female body, based on molds
which have been found in the archeological record (I really love
researching new beliefs based on such digs). But, have been told by
someone who knows a Gardnerian of the Jewish heritage,
that, "...those molds were not used to make cakes, but other images.
The cakes for the Queen of Heaven are those triangle shaped, dark
fruit pastries. They STILL EAT at the Spring Jewish holiday,
Purium." Her statement, I am told (not being Jewish), flatly
contradicts what most Jews and rabbis claim the cakes represent.

Even in Haiti, I was told by someone (whom referenced "VooDoo in
Haiti") that Coca Cola fore one of their Goddesses as a libation,
because they knew She likes sweet things, and as a result, She would
love Coke, as well.

In service of The Goddess,
Wade MacMorrighan

Avete Omnes,

Well there goes most of our Treasury to incorporate in just one
country if it local groups are set up. Lets hope that the $1500
estimate is an accurate estimate given the potentially varied prices
the other states might charge. Though this estimate is probably low,
we should have a better estimate given the likelyhood that most
states will charge substantially higher than Georgia's $30.00 (per
annum) that you quoted, Senator.

Sounds like a great Consular initiative to bankrupt Nova Roma, all
for the sake of rewarding one's cohort.

Also and more importantly, we all should thank Consul Caeso Fabius
for now requiring our European Citizens to share the burden and costs
to incorporate Nova Roma's various local groups and provincias within
the United States.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
> I was looking over the laws in my home State this
> morning. Foreign Corporations, and that includes ones
> incorporated in another USA State, like Maine, are
> required to register with the Georgia Secratary of
> States Corporate Divison if they do business in the
> state of Georgia. This includes Non Profits. This has
> to be done each year, and the annual fee is $30.00.
>
> So if we had a local group in the state of Georgia we
> would have to register Nova Roma with the state, and
> it would cost Nova Roma 30 dollars per year. If the
> other US States have the same laws and the same fees,
> then we are looking at 30 times 50 or 1,500 Dollars a
> year expenses just to operate local groups in the
> United States.
>
> --- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius
> > Drusus. Salve.
> >
> > Due to my work, I have been unable to respond to
> > postings on the list for the last week. I wanted to
> > ask a question about your post.
> > Since NR is incorporated in the USA, why can we not
> > use a few experimental oppidii and muncipii to work
> > out some of the potential bugs while NR's magistracy
> > works to get the corporation established in Europe
> > and South/Central America?
> > If the Lex is approved on a time period trial basis,
> > it would provide the opportunity to see whether
> > local groups will help or hurt NR as a whole.
> > Please let me know how you feel about this question.
> > Vale.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com

Avete Omnes,

Well there goes most of our Treasury to incorporate in just one
country if it local groups are set up. Lets hope that the $1500
estimate is an accurate estimate given the potentially varied prices
the other states might charge. Though this estimate is probably low,
we should have a better estimate given the likelyhood that most
states will charge substantially higher than Georgia's $30.00 (per
annum) that you quoted, Senator.

Sounds like a great Consular initiative to bankrupt Nova Roma, all
for the sake of rewarding one's cohort.

Also and more importantly, we all should thank Consul Caeso Fabius
for now requiring our European Citizens to share the burden and costs
to incorporate Nova Roma's various local groups and provincias within
the United States.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
> I was looking over the laws in my home State this
> morning. Foreign Corporations, and that includes ones
> incorporated in another USA State, like Maine, are
> required to register with the Georgia Secratary of
> States Corporate Divison if they do business in the
> state of Georgia. This includes Non Profits. This has
> to be done each year, and the annual fee is $30.00.
>
> So if we had a local group in the state of Georgia we
> would have to register Nova Roma with the state, and
> it would cost Nova Roma 30 dollars per year. If the
> other US States have the same laws and the same fees,
> then we are looking at 30 times 50 or 1,500 Dollars a
> year expenses just to operate local groups in the
> United States.
>
> --- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius
> > Drusus. Salve.
> >
> > Due to my work, I have been unable to respond to
> > postings on the list for the last week. I wanted to
> > ask a question about your post.
> > Since NR is incorporated in the USA, why can we not
> > use a few experimental oppidii and muncipii to work
> > out some of the potential bugs while NR's magistracy
> > works to get the corporation established in Europe
> > and South/Central America?
> > If the Lex is approved on a time period trial basis,
> > it would provide the opportunity to see whether
> > local groups will help or hurt NR as a whole.
> > Please let me know how you feel about this question.
> > Vale.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com

Salve Quirites!

I am sure that most of You have been able to understand that LEX
FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do with incorporation
of local groups, it is just about having then at all.

Or does the opponents to the lex don't want local groups?
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:

> There
>�is no problem with reinstating Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio
>�Britannicus as Plebeian Aedile if his taxes are paid (he may
>�already have accepted an offer) and he decides to candidate as
>�replacement. I assure You that I will be glad to support his
>�candidacy in the Senate.

His taxes are paid now (5 minutes ago I received the payment). My thanks to the citizen who paid for him!
If M. Scribonius agrees, he can now be made his own successor by the Senateco..

Optime valete!

Noricus
Treasury Quaestor

Consul,

What the proponats of this Lex refuse to understand is
that Nova Roma isn't an independat nation that can do
as it pleases. We have to follow the laws of the
assorted nations. This could result in Nova Roma being
liable for costs that exceed the entire treasury many
times over.

There is a major differance between not wanting to do
something and not being able to afford it, or being
able to do it legally.

If your staff had bothered to research the legal
aspects, if they could grasp the concept that Nova
Roma is legally just another NPC that has to obey the
laws, then you wouldn't be having these problems.

If you bothered asking the Senate for advice you might
find out about matters like this before you publicly
comitted yourself to a policy with consequances that
you seem to be trying to ignore.


--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@...> wrote:

> Salve Quirites!
>
> I am sure that most of You have been able to
> understand that LEX
> FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do
> with incorporation
> of local groups, it is just about having then at
> all.
>
> Or does the opponents to the lex don't want local
> groups?
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus
> Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
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Esteemed Consul;

It was I who posted, "Why hasn't this magistrate paid," message. I posted a similar message to the Religo, and Collegium list, "Why hasn't this Priest paid his/her taxes." I firmly believe that leadership by example is essential to every organization.

My question to you is why didn't you, or the other Consul (or a Praetor who enforces the laws) notice that another magistrate has not paid their taxes? Why is it now October, and this is just now being discovered?

You have a plethora of assistants. Shouldn't one of them have discovered this, and advised you on a possible solution months ago?

This perplexes me. My vote is to have someone pay this man's taxes (if he honestly cannot afford the cost), reinstate him, and lets move on. Why make it a political bruhaha when it can be a simple solution.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis


In a message dated 10/1/2003 11:30:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, christer.edling@... writes:

> As I said the Consuls didn't know about the problem until lately and
> when we got the correct information Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio
> Britannicus was offered to get help with his taxes. There was no
> problem with that. The problem was observed and posted to this list
> by a citizen and everyone was able to check it out. The law is public
> and possible to read at the Tabularium.
>
> Please, read my previous mails in this matter it answers your
> questions. I agree with You as I have said before and would have
> liked to keep Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus. There is
> no problem with reinstating Illustrus Marcus Scribonius Curio
> Britannicus as Plebeian Aedile if his taxes are paid (he may already
> have accepted an offer) and he decides to candidate as replacement. I
> assure You that I will be glad to support his candidacy in
> the Senate.

G. Modius Athanasius wrote:

> This perplexes me.  My vote is to have someone pay this man's taxes
> (if he honestly cannot afford the cost), reinstate him, and lets
> move on.  Why make it a political bruhaha when it can be a simple
> solution.

Someone has already paid his taxes, he is assiduus now, nothing bars the Senate from reinstating him. We can move on.

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Treasury Quaestor
cn.octavius.noricus@...
02.10.2003 00:08:54

In a message dated 10/1/03 2:25:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
christer.edling@... writes:

> I am sure that most of You have been able to understand that LEX
> FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do with incorporation
> of local groups, it is just about having then at all.
>
>

Salvete,
Consul
If that is the case, why did you say that? The first reading of the Lex
gives the impression
that legalizing local groups is the lex's purpose. It needs to be rewritten.
Another reason this should have gone to the Senate first.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Drusus;

I am trying to understand the point you are trying to make. However, what is the difference with having Provinces? They have an administration, yet they do not bankrupt our Republic.

Additionally, there is a difference between having local groups and having said local groups conduct official business for the national/international corporation. I belong to several organizations. Each with local chapters. There is a difference between a local chapter and an office of the corporation. An office is an extension of the main location and is funded, and has linked accounting. A chapter is not a local office, but an autonomous (or semi-autonomous entity).

Instead of re-inventing the wheel why doesn't someone talk to someone who is involved in a fraternal or religious organization to see what that organization does. If this "legal" issue is the only complaint with the Lex then I think opposition is a little unwarrented.

I would however, like to mention that for the most part I am in favor of the Lex. But there is one things that irritates me about it. It does not take the Religo into consideration. I feel the writers of this Lex should have consulted the Collegium for some guidance. ANY political organization of Nova Roma is NOT complete without the Religio. We are NOT an aethistic State.

These are simply my thoughts.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/1/2003 5:35:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lsicinius@... writes:

> What the proponats of this Lex refuse to understand is
> that Nova Roma isn't an independat nation that can do
> as it pleases. We have to follow the laws of the
> assorted nations. This could result in Nova Roma being
> liable for costs that exceed the entire treasury many
> times over.

Some of our provinces may be operating Illegally. It
all depends on the local laws. Here in Georgia we have
to be regestered if we "operate" in the state. Just
having an administrative district that includes
Georgia dosen't fall under the concept of "operating".
Staging events in the state or have a locl group
operating entirely in the state would place us under
the obligation to register with the State. That is
just for Georgia. A Different state could have
different requirements.

However we are illegally accepting donations from the
state of Georgia. Any NPC that solicits or accepts
donations has to register with the Chairitable
Organizations department of the Secratary of State. I
haven't found out what the fees if any are for that.
Paying my taxes may be illegal, and making a donation
is illegal because we haven't regestered.


--- AthanasiosofSpfd@... wrote:

> Salve Drusus;
>
> I am trying to understand the point you are trying
> to make. However, what is the difference with
> having Provinces? They have an administration, yet
> they do not bankrupt our Republic.
>
> Additionally, there is a difference between having
> local groups and having said local groups conduct
> official business for the national/international
> corporation. I belong to several organizations.
> Each with local chapters. There is a difference
> between a local chapter and an office of the
> corporation. An office is an extension of the main
> location and is funded, and has linked accounting.
> A chapter is not a local office, but an autonomous
> (or semi-autonomous entity).
>
> Instead of re-inventing the wheel why doesn't
> someone talk to someone who is involved in a
> fraternal or religious organization to see what that
> organization does. If this "legal" issue is the
> only complaint with the Lex then I think opposition
> is a little unwarrented.
>
> I would however, like to mention that for the most
> part I am in favor of the Lex. But there is one
> things that irritates me about it. It does not take
> the Religo into consideration. I feel the writers
> of this Lex should have consulted the Collegium for
> some guidance. ANY political organization of Nova
> Roma is NOT complete without the Religio. We are
> NOT an aethistic State.
>
> These are simply my thoughts.
>
> Vale;
>
> G. Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 10/1/2003 5:35:24 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, lsicinius@... writes:
>
> > What the proponats of this Lex refuse to
> understand is
> > that Nova Roma isn't an independat nation that can
> do
> > as it pleases. We have to follow the laws of the
> > assorted nations. This could result in Nova Roma
> being
> > liable for costs that exceed the entire treasury
> many
> > times over.
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
Cornelius Sulla and all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> Sounds like a great Consular initiative to bankrupt
> Nova Roma, all
> for the sake of rewarding one's cohort.

I'm not sure which law you're thinking of, Senator.
The proposed lex de oppidis & municipiis would not
benefit any member of the consul's staff any more than
it would benefit anyone else. If you are thinking of
century points, may I remind you that the magistrates
of local groups would not receive any.

As for your suggestion that the law is intended to
bankrupt Nova Roma, I trust that if you believe that
to be true then you'll be prosecuting the consul
fairly soon. If so, I'll see you from the witness-box,
where I shall be testifying that I've heard no one
express any such intention. :)

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm fine.

The Consul wrote:

> > I am sure that most of You have been able to
> understand that LEX
> > FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do
> with incorporation
> > of local groups, it is just about having then at
> all.

To which you responded:

> If that is the case, why did you say that? The
> first reading of the Lex
> gives the impression
> that legalizing local groups is the lex's purpose.

Well, it is not quite about legalizing them; it's
already perfectly legal to have a group. It's about
the standards they need to meet in order to be
formally recognized.

I think the Consul was trying to point out the
difference between this and the question of
incorporating local groups. If a local group wanted to
register as a non-profit corporation then that would
be up to the group; this law doesn't deal with that
question. This law is something like the senatus
consultum 'A Statement of Policy Regarding
Intermicronational Relations', passed on the 16th of
July 2751. If Nova Roma gives 'official recognition'
(the phrase used in that senatus consultum) to another
micronation, I don't think that makes it necessary for
Nova Roma to concern itself with that micronation's
corporate status.

The question is whether a court would consider local
groups recognized by Nova Roma under the provisions of
the proposed law to be branches or sub-divisions of
Nova Roma or simply independent groups with a mutual
relationship. We really don't know either way - some
think the former, others the latter, and no one has
yet proffered a qualified legal opinion. So it's a bit
premature for you to say,

> It needs to be rewritten.

... don't you think?

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
> I was looking over the laws in my home State this
> morning. Foreign Corporations, and that includes ones
> incorporated in another USA State, like Maine, are
> required to register with the Georgia Secratary of
> States Corporate Divison if they do business in the
> state of Georgia. This includes Non Profits. This has
> to be done each year, and the annual fee is $30.00.
>
> So if we had a local group in the state of Georgia we
> would have to register Nova Roma with the state, and
> it would cost Nova Roma 30 dollars per year. If the
> other US States have the same laws and the same fees,
> then we are looking at 30 times 50 or 1,500 Dollars a
> year expenses just to operate local groups in the
> United States.

Salve,

Uhm, try $400.00 to register in Massachusetts as a "foreign
corporation." The paperwork has to be signed by the President,
Vice-President or Secretary of the Corp. Currently one of Nova Roma's
co-Presidents (Consuls) isn't even an American and the other doesn't
reside in Maine where NR, Inc. is incorporated. The same is also true
regarding the co-Secretaries (Censors) and Vice-Presidents (Praetors).
Before someone tries to construe my statement regarding "not even
American" as anti-(insert any non US nationality here) it is merely
statement of fact.

The $400.00 registration fee entitles NR to spend $125.00 a year to
file a mandatory financial report with the Secretary of State of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Nova Roma is also required to register
a "resident agent." I would hazard a guess that would currently be
Propraetor Gaius Minucius Hadrianus. If Nova Roma changes "resident
agent" or that "resident agent" moves his/her domicile, that is
another $100 filing fee to amend that certificate of foreign
corporation.

I'm not sure if legally Nova Roma could accept my tax payments as that
might be construed as soliciting funds (doing business) in
Massachusetts. If that's is true then technically Nova Roma might be
required to remit to me my taxes and I'd be forced to resign as
Rogator since I can't pay my taxes. Worse part is I have no idea how
to get some straight answers out of the Secretary of State's office in
Boston without "blowing the whistle" which is the LAST thing I want to
do.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Modius Athanasius and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I would however, like to mention that for the most
> part I am in favor of the Lex. But there is one
> things that irritates me about it. It does not take
> the Religo into consideration. I feel the writers
> of this Lex should have consulted the Collegium for
> some guidance. ANY political organization of Nova
> Roma is NOT complete without the Religio. We are
> NOT an aethistic State.

What you say is perfectly true, but I can't think what
religious issues would have been relevant to this law.
One of its aims is to require local groups to conform
to a certain standard of historical accuracy before
they are formally recognized. Historically, however,
the Roman state contained oppida and municipia with
widely varying religious systems and institutions.
Though their political institutions were often
modelled on Rome's (dual magistracies, a little Senate
&c.), they didn't necessarily have the same
priesthoods or even the same gods, so any such
requirements in this law would have been out of place.
If this is not what you have in mind, perhaps you
could outline your suggestions?

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...> wrote:

> Avete Omnes,

> Sounds like a great Consular initiative to bankrupt Nova Roma, all
> for the sake of rewarding one's cohort.
>
> Also and more importantly, we all should thank Consul Caeso Fabius
> for now requiring our European Citizens to share the burden and costs
> to incorporate Nova Roma's various local groups and provincias within
> the United States.

Salve,

Nay, it is wrong to lay this on the doorstep of the Consul or his
Cohors. As it stands now, without the LEX FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET
MUNICIPIIS, Nova Roma's "taxes" may be violating just about every
state, territory and District of Columbia laws regarding corporate
entities (except for Maine and even that is shaky if its violating
other state laws). Any given state could consider Nova Roma to be
soliciting funds/doing business in its territory without proper
authority to do so. The problems and costs only multiply when
figuring on a global scale.

As crazy as it seems, Nova Roma's success may be its legal Achille's heel.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> However we are illegally accepting donations from the
> state of Georgia. Any NPC that solicits or accepts
> donations has to register with the Chairitable
> Organizations department of the Secratary of State. I
> haven't found out what the fees if any are for that.
> Paying my taxes may be illegal, and making a donation
> is illegal because we haven't regestered.

Salve,

Actually, Drusus, making the donation wouldn't be illegal. Nova Roma
ACCEPTING the donation might very well be illegal.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salve,

The citizen(s) with the following voter tracking codes
has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

# 267, 274, 306, 1262, and 1270

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is
given, and if you are unsure of your new code, follow
the instructions posted previously to obtain your
current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator

federal land available for about $2.50 per acre up to 160 acre. this
is avaliable from send $20 dollars to address below for more info
like maps and telephone helpline and filing forms:
FEDERAL LAND CO
dept L,
box 21598
washington, DC, 20009

Salvete, omnes.

I just received the message below to the webmaster alias. Unfortunately,
I don't speak spanish (It IS spanish, right?) so if any of you does,
feel free to contact the person in question regarding his questions.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Consulta
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:23:53 -0600
From: Recepcion de Oficinas del Dorado
<RecepciondeOficinas.delDorado@...>
To: <webmaster@...>

Hola:

Mi nombre es Damaris Sánchez Palencia, soy estudiante del 7° semestre de
la Lic. en Derecho en la ENEP Acatlán, actualmente curso la materia de
Amparo, mi profesor el Lic. Aarón Hernández López me encargó investigar
acerca de los edictos romanos, ya que en clase nos habló acerca del
Edicto de Milán, en el cual el Emperador Constantino Augusto del Imperio
Oriental proclamó en el año 313 a. C. la libertad religiosa en su Imperio.

Tengo que investigar cuál Emperador, en que año, y a través de qué
edicto, se prohibió la libertad de culto en el Imperio Romano, yo
encontré información acerca del rescripto de Septimio Severo publicado
en el año 202 a. C., no encontré la transcripción de dicho documento,
pero mi profesor dice que ese no es el primer edicto que prohibe la
libertad religiosa, ya que según él fue muchos años atrás, yo ya
investigué y encontré que todos los emperadores publicaban su edicto
pero caducaba al morir (al menos eso entendí) sin embargo creo yo que el
único edicto perpetuo fue el de Septimio Severo.

Ustedes que son grandes estudiosos de la cultura romana ¿me puden
orientar en dónde puedo encontrar esa información? llevo dos meses
investigando sé que es no es mucho tiempo, pero a mi me urge encontrar
la información, de lo contrario no tendré derecho a exámen.

Gracias por su ayuda.


Atte.


Damaris Sánchez


--

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Cassiodorus":

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/cassiodorus.html

This site, created by James O'Donnell (now provost at Georgetown
Univ., formerly of Univ. of Penn.), provides links to sources and
discussion of the fifth C.E. Christian philosopher and senator,
Flavius Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus. The manuscript illuminations are
particularly nice.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete Tite et omnes,

Tito, how does a great Sweed like yourself attract all this Spanish
mail? I'll wager many sestaries that you must have or be in cyber
contact with sweet muchachitas in Spain or elsewhere (LOL)

Anyway, here is the English translation:

Hello,

My name is Damarias Sanchez Palencia, I am a law student
in Acatlan. As part of my course material, my Law professor Aaron
Hernandez Lopez put me in charge of investigating about Roman edicts.
Already in class we are speaking of The Edict Of Milan which
Constantine proclaimed in 313 AD, the liberty of religion in his
empire.

It is necessary to investigate which emperor and in what year
prohibited the liberty of the Imperial Cult (emperor worship etc). I
found there was information about the writings of Septimus Severus
published in 202 AD. I did not find the the transcripts of such a
document but my professor says that this is not the first edict that
prohibited religious liberty. I investigated that many years before
and found that all emperors had published their edicts but these
edicts became invalid after their deaths. (At least that is what I
have understood);however I believe that the only real edict of this
type was from Septimus Severus.

You that are great students of Roman culture, would to help direct me
as to where to find this information? I have 2 months to investigate
which I know is not much time but it is urgent that I find this
information in order to be successful in my exam.

Thanks for your help.

Yours sincerely,

Damaris Sanchez

Well I'm sure we can get some answers for him. We can put them into
Spanish after.

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> I just received the message below to the webmaster alias.
Unfortunately,
> I don't speak spanish (It IS spanish, right?) so if any of you
does,
> feel free to contact the person in question regarding his questions.
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Consulta
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:23:53 -0600
> From: Recepcion de Oficinas del Dorado
> <RecepciondeOficinas.delDorado@c...>
> To: <webmaster@n...>
>
> Hola:
>
> Mi nombre es Damaris Sánchez Palencia, soy estudiante del 7°
semestre de
> la Lic. en Derecho en la ENEP Acatlán, actualmente curso la materia
de
> Amparo, mi profesor el Lic. Aarón Hernández López me encargó
investigar
> acerca de los edictos romanos, ya que en clase nos habló acerca del
> Edicto de Milán, en el cual el Emperador Constantino Augusto del
Imperio
> Oriental proclamó en el año 313 a. C. la libertad religiosa en su
Imperio.
>
> Tengo que investigar cuál Emperador, en que año, y a través de qué
> edicto, se prohibió la libertad de culto en el Imperio Romano, yo
> encontré información acerca del rescripto de Septimio Severo
publicado
> en el año 202 a. C., no encontré la transcripción de dicho
documento,
> pero mi profesor dice que ese no es el primer edicto que prohibe la
> libertad religiosa, ya que según él fue muchos años atrás, yo ya
> investigué y encontré que todos los emperadores publicaban su
edicto
> pero caducaba al morir (al menos eso entendí) sin embargo creo yo
que el
> único edicto perpetuo fue el de Septimio Severo.
>
> Ustedes que son grandes estudiosos de la cultura romana ¿me puden
> orientar en dónde puedo encontrar esa información? llevo dos meses
> investigando sé que es no es mucho tiempo, pero a mi me urge
encontrar
> la información, de lo contrario no tendré derecho a exámen.
>
> Gracias por su ayuda.
>
>
> Atte.
>
>
> Damaris Sánchez
>
>
> --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari

Salvete omnes,

Bad as Druids seemed, it was reasonably accurate with regards to the
seiges, scorched earth policies etc. In my opinion Hollywood has more
money and better sets so gross innnacuracies are better covered up.

Boudicca which is being panned in Britain will be shown in North
America on Oct. 13. I'm more concerned that the program will get more
people interested in the Roman Empire. Other than Cleopatra (1963)
which was accurate but a financial flop, there has never been a good
Roman movie made in my opinion. Everything from the "Robe" that has
Caligula starting the Christian persecutions a month or so after his
tribune crucified Christ, through to the galley scene in Ben Hur
which had criminals rowing a Roman warship, Commodus having a sister
and dying in the arena (though strangled in a bath in reality) are
all out to lunch in my opinion. Though I feel the British do a better
job on historical dramas, it always seems that even nazi officers
have the various English accents, a big complaint about Boudicca that
is currently circulating.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I For one will not be taking part in this unless some
> more details are made availble. I Know nothing about
> this project other than they plan on saving money by
> getting free extras whom they don't have to provide
> costumes for.
>
> What will the name of this movie be? Will any
> historians be invited to review the script? will it be
> a project that I can be proud of supporting, or will
> it be like the movie "Druids" that everyone was
> recently blasting on this list.
>
> There are allready too many poorly made Roman movies,
> I want no part in creating another one.

Salve C Fabius,

> I am sure that most of You have been able to understand that LEX
> FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do with incorporation
> of local groups, it is just about having then at all.

I agree. Unless the local groups started generating an income large enough
for the local Tax authorities to notice, there is no problem here. Remember
I am already involved in a 600 member Local group in the Pagan Federation
and we have never had any problems. We can't take advantage of the
headquarters non-profit status so we collect all membership fees in the name
of the HQ and then send them to England. All funds are then listed under the
Headquarters financial reports. Since the Local groups are not going to be
raking up century points, I don't see what the problem is. Even if I think
that we shouldn't carve ourselves into smaller pieces than we already are,
citizens don't have to start a local group if they want to but they can if
they do. I don't really see any harm done by this Lex.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Lucius Arminius Faustus Plebis Aedilis plus omnia salutat

I want to public praise the ´caritas ignota´ who paid the taxes of my
god-like colleague Aedile. Mother Ceres, patron of the Plebeaian
Aedilship and Class, shall reward you mostly.

(This situation is more touching me since on the starting of the
year, a pretty good friend [Vale, Optime amice, I know you problably
doesn´t want vane publicity but you know you are who I´m talking!
Thanks again!] has paid on his card my taxes [since my card wasn´t
international] and still hasn´t told me how re-pay him... rs!)

Also I make a appeal to the Consules, Senate and Comitia to reinstall
Curius Scribonius with full powers again on his magistracy as soon as
possible by the law.

But the pretty good help offered me to the Ludi Plebeian I will not
discarge, oh not, oh not! If Ludi Plebeian can unite as much help as
it can, the much of the objectives of NR is accomplished.

And these are times of joy and celebration. Lay down the politics,
lay down the tongues of Eris, lay down the parties and let´s put a
white flower on the feet of Concordia Publica, Pax and Ianus Pater.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
<cn.octavius.noricus@g...> wrote:

> G. Modius Athanasius wrote:
>
> > This perplexes me.  My vote is to have someone pay this man's

taxes

> > (if he honestly cannot afford the cost), reinstate him, and lets
> > move on.  Why make it a political bruhaha when it can be a simple
> > solution.
>
> Someone has already paid his taxes, he is assiduus now, nothing

bars the Senate from reinstating him. We can move on.

>
> --
> Optime vale!
>
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> Treasury Quaestor
> cn.octavius.noricus@g...
> 02.10.2003 00:08:54

Salve Diana;

The only potential harm that I see from this Lex is the exclusion of the Religio. The Religio needs to be represented in ALL levels of Nova Roma. The author of the Lex needs to work with the Collegium to incorporate the Religio into the establishment of local communities, at least in my opinion.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 10/2/2003 6:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, diana@... writes:

> I don't really see any harm done by this Lex.

I second that. I appeal to the Senate to reinstate Curius Scribonius as Plebian Aedile.

Additionally, for the Plebian Games I will be offering sacrifice to Ceres, may She be Honored!

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis

In a message dated 10/2/2003 6:40:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lafaustus@... writes:

> Also I make a appeal to the Consules, Senate and Comitia to reinstall
> Curius Scribonius with full powers again on his magistracy as soon as
> possible by the law.
>
> But the pretty good help offered me to the Ludi Plebeian I will not
> discarge, oh not, oh not! If Ludi Plebeian can unite as
> much help as
> it can, the much of the objectives of NR is accomplished.

Salve Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

<Someone has already paid his taxes, he is assiduus now, nothing bars the
Senate from reinstating him. We can move on.

I think that you are a very hard worker and I was amazed by the fact that
within 5 minutes of paying my taxes, you had updated my profile in the Album
Gentium. so it is nothing personal, when I say to you that I for one am not
ready to move on. This issue was *totally* mishandled even if it seems that
some of you want to brush this under the rug as if it is no big deal. It is
a big deal to those who are now scurrying about to make sure that we will
have a Ludi with one half of the Plebeian Aedile team now gone.

We all heard months ago that one of the Plebeian Aediles had a problem using
Paypal and then later that he paid his taxes by snailmail. Then last month
or so, Athanasios noticed that his taxes weren't paid. Someone then
mentioned that he thought that the taxes were paid by snailmail. It appears
that it was then looked into. Since then we heard nothing until his
resignation based on unilateral advice from the Consules. This could have
been handled off this list (months ago) together with the Senate and/or
possibly the other Aediles & the Tribunes (meaning one of us could have paid
for him). Instead the Senate was not even informed that there was a
problem.

So now it is left to the Senate to work quickly and reinstate him when this
entire thing could have been avoided. And things *rarely* get done quickly
in the Senate. First the problem has to *make it onto the agenda* and then a
discussion and a vote needs to take place. There is a month and sometimes
even two months between Senate meetings. If you notice the February Senatus
Consultus specified that the future of the Eagle after 2756 would be
re-adressed. The year is nearly over and that issue still hasn't been
re-addressed as everyone can see from the agenda's and results posted to
this list.

September did not have a Senate meeting and so I am hoping that October's
will happen very soon and that at least the Plebeian Aedile will be
reinstated quickly. If not then by the time our Plebeian Aedile gets
reinstated it may be as late as the end of October which is too late to help
organize the Ludi that is specifically his job to organize.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Tribunus Plebis

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Wiccan Wade. Salve.

One of the primary sources for information about sacrificial cakes and breads comes from De Rustica by Cato the Elder. There are also some sources for this information on the NR Religio site. You might also make contact with the Pontifex Maximus or Sicinius Drusus, both of who are very knowledgeable on the subject. Just remember that the information you seek from us is not Wiccan and Uncle Gerald was no Roman antiquarian. Vale.

Salve Diana,
if you worry for the time and a quick solution in the Senate to re-
appoint Scribonius, I can suggest to Aedile Arminius Faustus to
appoint Scribonius as his Scriba waiting for the meeting of the
Senate.
In this way the Plebeian Aediles don't loose other time and can
organize the Ludi fully hoping to have a Senatus Agenda in october.
Maybe this could be the more easy solution.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
>
> <Someone has already paid his taxes, he is assiduus now, nothing

bars the

> Senate from reinstating him. We can move on.
>
> I think that you are a very hard worker and I was amazed by the

fact that

> within 5 minutes of paying my taxes, you had updated my profile in

the Album

> Gentium. so it is nothing personal, when I say to you that I for

one am not

> ready to move on. This issue was *totally* mishandled even if it

seems that

> some of you want to brush this under the rug as if it is no big

deal. It is

> a big deal to those who are now scurrying about to make sure that

we will

> have a Ludi with one half of the Plebeian Aedile team now gone.
>
> We all heard months ago that one of the Plebeian Aediles had a

problem using

> Paypal and then later that he paid his taxes by snailmail. Then

last month

> or so, Athanasios noticed that his taxes weren't paid. Someone then
> mentioned that he thought that the taxes were paid by snailmail.

It appears

> that it was then looked into. Since then we heard nothing until his
> resignation based on unilateral advice from the Consules. This

could have

> been handled off this list (months ago) together with the Senate

and/or

> possibly the other Aediles & the Tribunes (meaning one of us could

have paid

> for him). Instead the Senate was not even informed that there was

a

> problem.
>
> So now it is left to the Senate to work quickly and reinstate him

when this

> entire thing could have been avoided. And things *rarely* get done

quickly

> in the Senate. First the problem has to *make it onto the agenda*

and then a

> discussion and a vote needs to take place. There is a month and

sometimes

> even two months between Senate meetings. If you notice the

February Senatus

> Consultus specified that the future of the Eagle after 2756 would

be

> re-adressed. The year is nearly over and that issue still hasn't

been

> re-addressed as everyone can see from the agenda's and results

posted to

> this list.
>
> September did not have a Senate meeting and so I am hoping that

October's

> will happen very soon and that at least the Plebeian Aedile will be
> reinstated quickly. If not then by the time our Plebeian Aedile

gets

> reinstated it may be as late as the end of October which is too

late to help

> organize the Ludi that is specifically his job to organize.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
> Tribunus Plebis

Salve Fransiscus,

> Salve Diana,
> if you worry for the time and a quick solution in the Senate to re-
> appoint Scribonius, I can suggest to Aedile Arminius Faustus to
> appoint Scribonius as his Scriba waiting for the meeting of the
> Senate.

Good idea! Yesterday I suggested that offlist to Scribonius :-)
By the way, I thought of our Italian citizens last weekend during the black
out. I heard that 4 people died and I said a little prayer for the
safekeeping of our Italian citizens and their loved ones (as well as my
macro family who are living in Sicily). Anyway I'm glad to see that you are
ok!

Vale,
Diana

Salvete Quirites!

I've got a question.
I am a new citizen as I registered three days ago.
Though I am already accepted as a member of gens Domitiana, I still cannot find myself in the Album Civium and in my profile I don't see any Century I'm attached to.

Do I have just to wait for several days until Album Civium is updated, or there's something I should do in order to become the legally registered and wholehearted citizen?;-)

Please, excuse me my terrible English as it is certainly not my first language.

Caeso Domitianus Postumus
prov. Venedia


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.F.D.

NR is a religious organization and an educational organization, although it was founded on the former principle rather than the latter. We are also a social organization. The question that comes to mind, is whether we could incorporate nationally as an educational or religious organization more inexpensively? Also, when discussing the potential local groups it should be considered that only a very few cities and regions in the USA and Canada have enough citizens to even consider having an oppidum or a municipality. I believe that we may be overlooking the fact that we do not have to really worry about the whole state of Tennessee will want local group status any more than the whole of Spain will try to found a local group. Now if we are talking about the Greater Chicagoland Area being municipal or the Atlanta-Norcross-Kennessaw Mtn. Area being an oppidum then we can consider these as possible candidates for local groups.
The point that I am trying to make (in case any of the legume-minded are wondering) is that NR may not have to worry about incorporation in every state, province, and other region in the USA, Canada, Mexico, and Europe because we do not have the kind of membership to start a lot of local groups. My estimate for the USA (based on the current active membership) is less than 10 local groups at the current time all based on large cities or groups of large & medium cities in a small area. Based on the number of times that citizens have posted about getting together for weekend parties and events, my estimate drops to about five (one in the south, two on the west coast, one in the midwest, and two on the east coast). There may be more than 5-10 potential groups in North America but I challenge anyone to show me more than this based on current membership and activity.
To explain, no that would take too long. Too sum up, even if the lex about local groups passes, NR will not have to incorporate in more than a few states because we will only have a small number of groups. Valete.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Cassius Calvus. Salve.

I would not dream of putting down your home state, citizen, but as Gilber Gottfried says "Why does this not surprise me?" During my time as an intern at a historical site in MA, I was always amazed at the complexity of the government there. There has got to be a way for NR to incorporate nationally (and internationally) without bankrupting us.

I know that some citizens are going to object to my next statement but how did the SCA manage national and international incorporation without a huge bankroll? It might be prudent for the senior magistrates to look into this.
Vale.

Salve Diana,

> Good idea! Yesterday I suggested that offlist to Scribonius :-)

Thank you :-)

> By the way, I thought of our Italian citizens last weekend during

the black

> out. I heard that 4 people died and I said a little prayer for the
> safekeeping of our Italian citizens and their loved ones (as well

as my

> macro family who are living in Sicily). Anyway I'm glad to see

that you are

> ok!

Yes the black out have been dangerous, 58.000.000 of italians in the
dark. Puglia (apulia), my region, had the most tragical situation
because here we haven't water or rivers or electrical centrals. The
region depends from the neighboards. We were without energy from
3.00 AM to 4.00 PM and everything was stopped. 3 of 4 died people
are of my region.
It's a sad situation because the Italy depends from Swiss and France
and nobody know who is the responsible. It means we could have
another black-out in the future.
I'm ok, I sleepes when happened ;-)
Thank you for your prayers :-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.F.D.

I agree that it is very important to consider the religio when discussing the founding of local groups in NR. I believe that it is inevitable that we will gain some new pagan citizens who may be very interested in Roman Reconstructionist Paganism when we found local groups. However, as long as the principles and rites of the Religio are observed and practiced, NR (Like Old Rome) can tolerate all but the most libertine rites.

Salve Diana Moravia!

> I think that you are a very hard worker and I was amazed by the
> fact that within 5 minutes of paying my taxes, you had updated my
> profile in the Album Gentium.

Thank you! I'm doing what I can...

> so it is nothing personal, when I say
> to you that I for one am not ready to move on.

Alright, I'll do my best not to take this personal :-)

> This issue was
> *totally* mishandled even if it seems that some of you want to brush
> this under the rug as if it is no big deal.

You're right; it shouldn't have come to that problem in the first place. But when we (M. Scribonius himself, both Consules and I) were made aware of the issue by G. Modius on the 16th of September, I don't think we handled it too bad. Whoever that "some of you" might be, I do not want to "brush anything under the rug".
G. Modius (who discovered the problem; thanks to him for his alertness) said "My vote is to have someone pay this man's taxes (if he honestly cannot afford the cost), reinstate him, and lets move on.  Why make it a political bruhaha when it can be a simple solution." I simply informed the public that his taxes are paid now, using G. Modius' words for my reply.

> We all heard months ago that one of the Plebeian Aediles had a
> problem using Paypal and then later that he paid his taxes by
> snailmail.

I think you mean Propraetor Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (msg nr. 10029).

> Then last month or so, Athanasios noticed that his taxes
> weren't paid. Someone then mentioned that he thought that the taxes
> were paid by snailmail. It appears that it was then looked into.

Yes, he posted that to this list on the 16th. That's when I was charged to make sure that he had in fact not paid neither via paypal nor via check nor via money order nor via cash.

> Since then we heard nothing until his resignation based on
> unilateral advice from the Consules. This could have been handled
> off this list

Now what do you want? You heard nothing *because* it was handled off list.

> (months ago) together with the Senate and/or possibly
> the other Aediles & the Tribunes (meaning one of us could have paid
> for him).  Instead the Senate was not even informed that there was
> a problem.

Finding somebody willing to pay for him was never the problem. As you see, somebody (whom I shall not name) volunteered within two days. The problem was that his taxes were forgotten after the deadline; both by himself and by "us". So *if* you wanted to attack somebody (I still remember that this is not personal *g*), you should fire at M. Scribonius too.

> So now it is left to the Senate to work quickly and reinstate him
> when this entire thing could have been avoided.

Yes again, it's a pity it came to this.

> And things *rarely*
> get done quickly in the Senate. ...
> September did not have a Senate meeting and so I am hoping that
> October's will happen very soon and that at least the Plebeian
> Aedile will be reinstated quickly.

That's what I hope too!

> If not then by the time our
> Plebeian Aedile gets reinstated it may be as late as the end of
> October which is too late to help organize the Ludi that is
> specifically his job to organize.

As F. Apulus and you have already suggested: M. Scribonius could always be appointed scriba now that his taxes are paid.

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
02.10.2003 16:39:30

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Lanius Paulinus. Salve.

From the Codex Theodosius 1.xvi.tit.i.leg. 2 (28 February 380)

"It is our pleasure that all the nations which are governed by the Romans, which faithful tradition has preserved, and which in now professed by the pontiff Damasus, and by Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the discipline of the apostles, and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe the sole deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, under an equal magesty and a pious Trinity. We authorise the followers of this doctrine to assume the title of Catholic Christians; and as we judge that all others are extravagant madmen, we brand them with the infamous name of Heretics and declare that their conventicles shall no longer usurp the respectable appellation of churches. Besides the condemnation of Divine justice, they must expect to suffer the severe penalties, which our authority, guided by heavely wisdom, shall think proper to inflict upon them."

Gary,

I'm Patrick Owen from Nashville, TN. I would be happy to participate in your project but I need to know whether you need me as a Republican Roman, Imperial Roman, or Late Roman? Each on requires a different costume. Let me know and I will get you some pictures.

Patrick Owen
patrick.owen@...

Salve Noricus,

<So *if* you wanted to attack somebody (I still remember that this is not
personal *g*), you should fire at M. Scribonius too.

LOL! Will do! :-)) I don't take any discussion personally unless someone
says something nasty about my mother :-)))

<I think you mean Propraetor Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (msg nr. 10029).
Thanks for clearing a few things up, as well as me getting Sura's case and
Britannicus' cases confused. I go blank *all the time* with names. It's
really embarrassing when its a work colleague whom I've been working with
for a few years and then after a vacation I can't remember what their name
is :-p But numbers I never forget!!

vale,
Diana

Let me make one thing very clear, I would love to have
a local group operating here in the Atlanta area. I
just wan't to insure that it dosen't cause any legal
and/or finical problems for Nova Roma if such a group
is started.

This lex fails to take that into consideration. That
is it's major flaw.

Other areas where it's flawed. A failure to recognize
the Religio, and a failure to set limits on the
geographic size of a local group. There is nothing in
the law stopping me from attempting to set up the
entire state of Georgia as a local group.

The founding of a Town or City in Antiquita required
that certain religous acts be performed. This isn't
addressed. The Romans didn't attempt to interfere with
local religous customs in EXISTING towns and cities
that came under thier rule, but they weren't in the
habit of founding cities that recognized alien
religions either. There is nothing in this law
preventing the formation of Wiccan, Xtian, or other
religions as the offical religion of a town. The
Collegium Pontificum should have to approve any local
groups to ensure that they aren't falling away from
the Religio.

Many local goverments in Antiquita were the Greek
Polis. Some citizens may prefer this form of governmet
for a local group. This isn't an option under this
law.

The failure to include geograpic limits will place
Propraetors under preasure to approve huge groups that
don't have a real local basis. In the past I have
sugested that local group's geographic area be limited
to an hour's travel from a central location. This will
ensure that there is a real possibility for face to
face meetings. This law fails to set limits and the
posibility of just creating new online groups rather
than true local groups with face to face meetings
can't be ignored.

There is no requirement for minimum activity by these
groups. I would like to see minimal requirements set
for real personal meetings, say a requirement that an
oppidum have quarterly meetings, and a municipium have
monthly meetings. This isn't addressed.

This is a deeply flawed Lex. It should be rejected.


--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.F.D.
>
> NR is a religious organization and an educational
> organization, although it was founded on the former
> principle rather than the latter. We are also a
> social organization. The question that comes to
> mind, is whether we could incorporate nationally as
> an educational or religious organization more
> inexpensively? Also, when discussing the potential
> local groups it should be considered that only a
> very few cities and regions in the USA and Canada
> have enough citizens to even consider having an
> oppidum or a municipality. I believe that we may be
> overlooking the fact that we do not have to really
> worry about the whole state of Tennessee will want
> local group status any more than the whole of Spain
> will try to found a local group. Now if we are
> talking about the Greater Chicagoland Area being
> municipal or the Atlanta-Norcross-Kennessaw Mtn.
> Area being an oppidum then we can consider these as
> possible candidates for local groups.
> The point that I am trying to make (in case any of
> the legume-minded are wondering) is that NR may not
> have to worry about incorporation in every state,
> province, and other region in the USA, Canada,
> Mexico, and Europe because we do not have the kind
> of membership to start a lot of local groups. My
> estimate for the USA (based on the current active
> membership) is less than 10 local groups at the
> current time all based on large cities or groups of
> large & medium cities in a small area. Based on the
> number of times that citizens have posted about
> getting together for weekend parties and events, my
> estimate drops to about five (one in the south, two
> on the west coast, one in the midwest, and two on
> the east coast). There may be more than 5-10
> potential groups in North America but I challenge
> anyone to show me more than this based on current
> membership and activity.
> To explain, no that would take too long. Too sum
> up, even if the lex about local groups passes, NR
> will not have to incorporate in more than a few
> states because we will only have a small number of
> groups. Valete.
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
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F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius Drusus. Salve.

I hope that you will contact the producer's office and ask questions about this project. He indicated to me today that I was the first NR citizen to speak with him since he posted on our list a couple of months ago. I will be meeting with him and his cinematographer to show them some other appropriate Roman shooting venues. The Tennessee War Memorial Bldg. was built in the 1920's in the Roman Style with a 12 foot statue of Mars (Greek style) placed in the courtyard. Mr. Barbosa indicated that he needs senators, equestrians, civilians (men, women, children) as well as soldiers. I hope to see you at the Roman Festival in Centennial Park regardless of your participation in the movie so that NR can recruit. I will be supplying at least one pavilion to pass out NR information. I hope to see you in 2003. Vale.

Salve

I hope the people of Nova Roma take this in the spirit in which it is written. I have a couple of questions.

Do you not have to have your taxes paid BEFORE you can be a candidate much less be elected as a magistrate?

Why did it take until September/October to "discover" this when the magistrate knew he had not paid his taxes? or did the "treasury" lose the taxes he did pay but he could not prove it?

Should not someone have posted that he can not stand as a candidate because his taxes were not paid by a certain date?

I believe someone else wanted to run in last years elections but was informed that they could not because their taxes were not paid, does anybody else remember this?

We have very a large number of laws but few that can be enforced, given the current nature of our society, ( mostly online) this is one of the few that could and should have been.

Elections are coming up and someone needs to inform the would be candidates when their taxes need to be paid so they can be eligible for election.

I am not "rich" by any means but if an individual cannot pay $12 US or less they need to spend more time on making money and less working for NR.

Pax

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus,

You posted:

> I hope that you will contact the producer's office and ask questions about
> this project. He indicated to me today that I was the first NR citizen to
> speak with him since he posted on our list a couple of months ago.

He has apparently forgotten that I wrote to him in private e-mail
at that time, explaining that I'm a magistrate and asking him if
he could make use of a togate magistrate.

Given that he never replied to my e-mail, I don't have a real good
feeling about the guy. I frankly share Senator Drusus' concerns,
and at this point I will need to be convinced of quite a lot
before I'm willing to participate.

Vale,

-- Marinus

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius Drusus. Salve.

No law is perfect. The Senior Consul is fulfilling a promise he made to do something about legal recognition of local groups. However, I agree that he should likely have let the Senate review it to take into consideration the international, national, state, and local macronational laws. If the lex passes, it means that the majority of citizens recognize it as a beginning to build upon. After all, geographical restrictions and religious aspects are points that can be amended by other laws.
In regards to wiccans, christians, asatru and other religious groups making their religion the dominant one in their group, you should consider that most christians (NR citizens excepted) want nothing to do with our organization because we are pagan in purpose. Most Wiccans and Asatru want nothing to do with NR because we are too regimented, uptight, and restrictive of expressing the fluffy bunny, playgan 'feel good' religion that they are involved with at any special time or we do not take into consideration the racial purity of the True Aryans (those last comments were meant to be humorous).
Anyway, Drusus, please recognize that what I am saying is that I find it very difficult to imagine that anyone but truly committed NR citizens who honor the religio and the state constitution would go to the trouble of trying to found a local group. Please give our citizens some credit for dignatus, pietas, et cetera. It is virtually impossible to anticipate every conceiveable problem that will arise from a proposed law. I prefer to believe in the potential for most citizens of the Republic to act within the true spirit of our organization. Vale.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Marinus. Salve.

The producer is currently asking for those interested to email a photo of themselves to him so he can categorize those that can be used. If you sent him one email, then there is the possibility that it went astray, was deleted by accident, or something else may have happened. I suggest that you write, call, or email his office again and try to get specifics. If there is a possibility of this actually coming off and there is a Roman Faire at Centennial Park in March 2004, it offers a large venue for NR to make itself known whether or not you participate in the movie.

Post Scriptus: Most folks outside of our circles don't know that a "togaed magistrate" means "Roman Senator with complete costume."

Vale.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus writes:

> Do you not have to have your taxes paid BEFORE you can be a candidate much
> less be elected as a magistrate?

You can't very well pay taxes for next year when you run for election
in November of the previous year. I don't know if Curio had paid his
taxes for last year or not, but the problem seems to have been with
getting this year's tax paid. Since tax notifications didn't come out
until late February, I think he'd already been elected and served for
two months before he had his earliest opportunity to pay.

> Why did it take until September/October to "discover" this when the
> magistrate knew he had not paid his taxes? or did the "treasury" lose the
> taxes he did pay but he could not prove it?

I don't know the answer to that question. I think that the people
who do know the answer are treating it as a private matter.

> Should not someone have posted that he can not stand as a candidate because
> his taxes were not paid by a certain date?

See above. We're talking about tax payments from different years.

I note that a number of people volunteered to pay the tax for Curio.
He declined those offers up until just yesterday, when apparently he
chose to permit someone to act as his proxy. But I can guarantee that
yesterday was not the first time someone approached him about paying
his tax by proxy.

Since Curio has chosen to not discuss the matter here on the mainlist,
other than to announce his resignation, I have not discussed the matter
until now either. I don't expect that I'll have any more to say on
the matter either.

-- Marinus

Avete Omnes,

Curio's taxes were paid last year.

And this matter was brought before the Senate back after the deadline
in April. It was shurgged off. I should know I brought it up in the
Senate, with the names of those magistrates and scribes who have
failed to pay their tax.

Private matter or not this has been an ongoing issue since the end of
the tax deadline. The Consuls failed to enforce the law between May-
Septmeber. The information was public knowledge and it does not take
more than 15 min to check every single magistrate via the Magistrates
page to confirm if taxes have been paid or not.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus writes:
>
> > Do you not have to have your taxes paid BEFORE you can be a

candidate much

> > less be elected as a magistrate?
>
> You can't very well pay taxes for next year when you run for

election

> in November of the previous year. I don't know if Curio had paid

his

> taxes for last year or not, but the problem seems to have been with
> getting this year's tax paid. Since tax notifications didn't come

out

> until late February, I think he'd already been elected and served

for

> two months before he had his earliest opportunity to pay.
>
> > Why did it take until September/October to "discover" this when

the

> > magistrate knew he had not paid his taxes? or did the "treasury"

lose the

> > taxes he did pay but he could not prove it?
>
> I don't know the answer to that question. I think that the people
> who do know the answer are treating it as a private matter.
>
> > Should not someone have posted that he can not stand as a

candidate because

> > his taxes were not paid by a certain date?
>
> See above. We're talking about tax payments from different years.
>
> I note that a number of people volunteered to pay the tax for Curio.
> He declined those offers up until just yesterday, when apparently he
> chose to permit someone to act as his proxy. But I can guarantee

that

> yesterday was not the first time someone approached him about paying
> his tax by proxy.
>
> Since Curio has chosen to not discuss the matter here on the

mainlist,

> other than to announce his resignation, I have not discussed the

matter

> until now either. I don't expect that I'll have any more to say on
> the matter either.
>
> -- Marinus

I am M.F. Fides, I would really like to see the differences of dress for all three stages...I am sure that other Nova Romani citizens would as well...could you kindly post these photos for all to see, it would greatly be appreciated.
If not, are there any quirites out there that have this visual...or a link, perhaps? Anche tv.

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
Gary,

I'm Patrick Owen from Nashville, TN. I would be happy to participate in your project but I need to know whether you need me as a Republican Roman, Imperial Roman, or Late Roman? Each on requires a different costume. Let me know and I will get you some pictures.

Patrick Owen
patrick.owen@...

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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you don't mind (I'm sure you won't be
surprised) if I respond to your points.

> Let me make one thing very clear, I would love to
> have
> a local group operating here in the Atlanta area. I
> just wan't to insure that it dosen't cause any legal
> and/or finical problems for Nova Roma if such a
> group
> is started.
>
> This lex fails to take that into consideration. That
> is it's major flaw.

I understand that you have a very justifiable concern
about this, and I applaud you for raising it. However,
this list over the last few days has attested the
great variety of different amateur opinions on the
potential (or lack of it) for unpleasant legal
consequences of this law. In view of the wide range of
different views and the unfortunate absence of any
qualified legal opinion, for you to make an absolute
statement like the one above takes you dangerously far
from constructive criticism and perilously close to
opposition for its own sake. I presume this is just a
slip of the fingers on your part.

> The founding of a Town or City in Antiquita required
> that certain religous acts be performed. This isn't
> addressed. The Romans didn't attempt to interfere
> with
> local religous customs in EXISTING towns and cities
> that came under thier rule, but they weren't in the
> habit of founding cities that recognized alien
> religions either. There is nothing in this law
> preventing the formation of Wiccan, Xtian, or other
> religions as the offical religion of a town. The
> Collegium Pontificum should have to approve any
> local
> groups to ensure that they aren't falling away from
> the Religio.

The law was drafted on the basis that the nearest
historical analogy to the recognition by Nova Roma of
a local group is the recognition by old Rome of an
existing town or city. We do not expect anyone to
actually found a new town from setting the orientation
and digging the ditch to painting frescoes on the
walls of the new curia. The people are already there
and already live in the buildings they live in. The
law treats the process as the equivalent of the
peaceful assimilation of an existing town into the
Roman state. If the inhabitants wish to mark this
event with rites, they are perfectly free to do so.

Moreover, as I've said before, the ancient Roman state
did not require the towns within it to practice the
religion of the city of Rome, so long as they did not
attack or undermine it. The Romans would have had no
problem with all-Wiccan or all-Christian towns
existing under their rule. Now, should a local group
attempt to exclude non-Christians or non-Wiccans from
membership, that would be a breach of article I of the
law, which provides that any citizen living within the
geographical limits of the group has the right to join
it. I see no danger here.

> Many local goverments in Antiquita were the Greek
> Polis. Some citizens may prefer this form of
> governmet
> for a local group. This isn't an option under this
> law.

It is an option, but not it the group wants formal
recognition.

> The failure to include geograpic limits will place
> Propraetors under preasure to approve huge groups
> that
> don't have a real local basis. In the past I have
> sugested that local group's geographic area be
> limited
> to an hour's travel from a central location. This
> will
> ensure that there is a real possibility for face to
> face meetings. This law fails to set limits and the
> posibility of just creating new online groups rather
> than true local groups with face to face meetings
> can't be ignored.

The law specifies that the geographical area must be
reasonable. The precise interpretation is left to the
governor or, for a municipium, the Senate. The Senate,
of course, also has the authority to supervise the
decisions of the governor in the case of an oppidum.
Governors are not elected by the members of their
province, and therefore have no reason to approve
groups with plainly unreasonable limits, however
popular it will make them; governors are, on the other
hand, appointed and prorogued by the Senate, and will
therefore have every reason to listen to its advice on
such matters. I therefore see no danger of huge groups
being approved.

> There is no requirement for minimum activity by
> these
> groups. I would like to see minimal requirements set
> for real personal meetings, say a requirement that
> an
> oppidum have quarterly meetings, and a municipium
> have
> monthly meetings. This isn't addressed.

It's there, and there's been some discussion of it on
this list within the last few days, but perhaps you
missed it. The group is required to have at least one
face-to-face meeting a year. I'd say this is
reasonable as a bare minimum, though of course more
frequent meetings would be better. Even this bare
minimum, though, has already caused some concern to at
least one citizen, who brought up the matter here.

I'd also suggest to you that there is no real reason
to deny people the opportunity to form a local group
even if they don't want to meet face to face. It would
be a shame, but what harm does it do to anyone? What's
more, it's pretty unlikely, when you consider the
effort people will have to go to to set up the group
in the first place, that having done so they will
suddenly collapse into sloth and apathy as you seem to
fear.

> This is a deeply flawed Lex. It should be rejected.

For what it's worth (depending on how many people have
yet to vote), I'd say this law is at best an excellent
step towards strengthening and stimulating Nova Roma's
grass roots, and at worst a short and harmless
document that may come in handy later. I encourage
undecided voters to give it a try.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

I had been hoping that another attorney on the list might weigh in
here, but I'm not seeing any response. The question of Nova Roma's
status in different states might not be as much a problem as it
appears. Certainly, local groups would want to get the advice of a
local attorney, but I can give you a few pointers.

States generally require non-profit corporations that solicit
donations to register. However, membership dues ("taxes") would
typically not be donations for the purposes of the statute, nor
*might* appeals for money addressed to existing members of the
organization. Such statutes are typically drawn to compel
registration of companies that do phone banking and mass mailing to
solicit donations and so to ensure that the solicitations are being
made on behalf of legitimate charities.

States also generally require foreign corporations to register.
(Corporations incorporated in another state are "foreign.") However,
the level of activity that would trigger the requirement to register
can be open to argument. Certainly, I think most attorneys would
advise a corporation to register as a foreign corporation if it opens
an office in a particular state and transacts business from that
office. If the corporations contacts within the state are casual and
mostly limited to members of the corporation, foreign registration
would probably not be necessary (assuming, of course, that the state
has no particular statutory language that requires otherwise).

I am not giving legal advice to Nova Roma or to anyone on the list,
but am pointing out some general principles to help focus this
discussion. I am an attorney, but I practice real estate law, not
corporate law. I am, however, state co-chair of a (macro)national
political organization, as well as having served on the boards of
other national organizations with local branches that have waded
through these same issues. In my experience, these questions aren't
difficult to deal with and can be resolved fairly easily on a case by
case basis.

Iustinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> Some of our provinces may be operating Illegally. It
> all depends on the local laws. Here in Georgia we have
> to be regestered if we "operate" in the state. Just
> having an administrative district that includes
> Georgia dosen't fall under the concept of "operating".
> Staging events in the state or have a locl group
> operating entirely in the state would place us under
> the obligation to register with the State. That is
> just for Georgia. A Different state could have
> different requirements.
>
> However we are illegally accepting donations from the
> state of Georgia. Any NPC that solicits or accepts
> donations has to register with the Chairitable
> Organizations department of the Secratary of State. I
> haven't found out what the fees if any are for that.
> Paying my taxes may be illegal, and making a donation
> is illegal because we haven't regestered.
>
>
> --- AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> > Salve Drusus;
> >
> > I am trying to understand the point you are trying
> > to make. However, what is the difference with
> > having Provinces? They have an administration, yet
> > they do not bankrupt our Republic.
> >
> > Additionally, there is a difference between having
> > local groups and having said local groups conduct
> > official business for the national/international
> > corporation. I belong to several organizations.
> > Each with local chapters. There is a difference
> > between a local chapter and an office of the
> > corporation. An office is an extension of the main
> > location and is funded, and has linked accounting.
> > A chapter is not a local office, but an autonomous
> > (or semi-autonomous entity).
> >
> > Instead of re-inventing the wheel why doesn't
> > someone talk to someone who is involved in a
> > fraternal or religious organization to see what that
> > organization does. If this "legal" issue is the
> > only complaint with the Lex then I think opposition
> > is a little unwarrented.
> >
> > I would however, like to mention that for the most
> > part I am in favor of the Lex. But there is one
> > things that irritates me about it. It does not take
> > the Religo into consideration. I feel the writers
> > of this Lex should have consulted the Collegium for
> > some guidance. ANY political organization of Nova
> > Roma is NOT complete without the Religio. We are
> > NOT an aethistic State.
> >
> > These are simply my thoughts.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > G. Modius Athanasius
> >
> > In a message dated 10/1/2003 5:35:24 PM Eastern
> > Daylight Time, lsicinius@y... writes:
> >
> > > What the proponats of this Lex refuse to
> > understand is
> > > that Nova Roma isn't an independat nation that can
> > do
> > > as it pleases. We have to follow the laws of the
> > > assorted nations. This could result in Nova Roma
> > being
> > > liable for costs that exceed the entire treasury
> > many
> > > times over.
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
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Salve Seniro Tribuna et Salvete Quirites!

We don't always agree, but I love it when we do. ;-)

Please also observe that there are more citizens who point out that
this lex probably not will cause any legal problems for Nova Roma.
When I decided to propose this law I did so on the requirement of
many citizens, especially on this list. I _do_ hope that this law
will be approved by the Populus and then citizens can form local
groups as so many have wanted.

This would take Nova Roma one step further to become a Real Life
organisation. Something that I found that, for example, many of the
paricipants at the Nova Roman Rally in Bologna really wanted to see.

>Salve C Fabius,
>
>> I am sure that most of You have been able to understand that LEX
>> FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS has nothing to do with incorporation
>> of local groups, it is just about having then at all.
>
>I agree. Unless the local groups started generating an income large enough
>for the local Tax authorities to notice, there is no problem here. Remember
>I am already involved in a 600 member Local group in the Pagan Federation
>and we have never had any problems. We can't take advantage of the
>headquarters non-profit status so we collect all membership fees in the name
>of the HQ and then send them to England. All funds are then listed under the
>Headquarters financial reports. Since the Local groups are not going to be
>raking up century points, I don't see what the problem is. Even if I think
>that we shouldn't carve ourselves into smaller pieces than we already are,
>citizens don't have to start a local group if they want to but they can if
>they do. I don't really see any harm done by this Lex.
>
>Vale,
>Diana Moravia

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

--- "C. Iulius Iustinus" <iustinus@...> wrote:

> States also generally require foreign corporations
> to register.
> (Corporations incorporated in another state are
> "foreign.") However,
> the level of activity that would trigger the
> requirement to register
> can be open to argument. Certainly, I think most
> attorneys would
> advise a corporation to register as a foreign
> corporation if it opens
> an office in a particular state and transacts
> business from that
> office. If the corporations contacts within the
> state are casual and
> mostly limited to members of the corporation,
> foreign registration
> would probably not be necessary (assuming, of
> course, that the state
> has no particular statutory language that requires
> otherwise).

My Point is that we need to take the sensible
precaution of checking out State and National laws
BEFORE we pass any leges relating to local groups. The
State of Kansas might have no legal requirement for us
to register a local group, while the State of
Mississippi might require it. There might not be any
problems in the UK, and the same might not be true of
Italy. (I'm just picking names at random, not offering
advice on the laws of these states or nations).

We need to shelve this lex until we research the
effects that local lawas could have in this matter.

I'm NOT saying that we should give up on forming local
groups. I AM saying that we should take no action
UNTIL we find out what laws may affect us.

It's easier to stay out of legal trouble, than to get
out of legal trouble.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@...> wrote:

> Please also observe that there are more citizens who
> point out that
> this lex probably not will cause any legal problems
> for Nova Roma.

In this matter the views of Nova Roman citizens aren't
as important as the views of State and National
legislatures and the assorted officals who interpit
them.

All it takes is just one state official to hold a
contray view, and Nova Roma could be fined for a sum
exceeding it's entire treasury.

You are betting Nova Roma's existance on the content
of laws that your staff didn't take time to research.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to M. F. Fideles. Salve.

The differences between Republican and early to mid Imperial (100 B.C.-200 A.D.) are not very significant. The Republic tunica was just a folded rectangle of linen or wool folded over at the shoulders with a neck hole and sewn up to the arm holes. The upper part of the arms were covered. The Imperial tunica had integral short sleeves and clavii. The Imperial toga was more voluminous and more complicated to drape properly than the Republican toga. The sandals worn by most common folk resembled Capuchin sandals although some low boots were worn by both urban and rural dwellers.
Later Imperial Romans wore long and short sleeve tunics with clavii (vertical bands of color running from hem to shoulder, front and back) and segmentatae (squares and circles of color and/or embroider on the lower part of the tunic and on the arms near the shoulders. Trousers, both short and long, tight and narrow, were also worn. Sandals were usually restricted to urbanites and the Christian clergy except for N. Africa. Cloaks were rectangular and semi-circular, some had hoods and sleeves like a buruus or just hoods but most did not. There are some very good illustrations in Peter Conolly's books on Rome & Athens and his work on Pompeii. After the Civil Wars, the toga became a mostly ceremonial garment worn by magistrates, the Emperors, senators, pontiffs, and by the early Imperial Praetorian Guard while on duty (with swords of course). It made them stand out in the Forum like a bunch of tuxedoes would stand out in Times Square. The Praetorians began wearing military garb (including helmets and shields) on duty in Rome during the reigns of Nerva and Trajan.
There are exceptions and regional variations about most of this information.
Vale.

Actually I wrote Gary in August and have had an ongoing conversation
with him, although I have not represented myself as an official of Nova
Roma. I suggested having the event in March rather than November to give
more time to plan and recruit.

I think this stands to be a great opportunity for a rally and
community-building event and Nova Roma would be making a mistake to
ignore it. I am forwarding the application material that was posted to
the Roman Army group. If you'll notice, there is no request for any sort
of application fee or any other indication that there would be a benefit
for them to get a bunch of reenactors to come to Nashville only to find
nothing going on. Besides, who would want to tick off a bunch of armored
guys with swords and spears?

The application requests photos be submitted in PDF file format. I have
the capability to produce PDF files so if anyone needs assistance,
please email me your picture and I will email a PDF file back to you.
Please send your picture as a JPEG or GIF compressed file smaller than
75k (be sure to crop any extraneous areas so your picture is small). If
you need directions on how to do this, email me off list before sending
your pictures.

TAS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
thank you for response. According to the information that you provided, the portrayal of the Praetorian Guards in I Claudius was inaccurate. A togate man wearing a sword just does not look right as I imagine it, no cuirass, no scutum...I just can't picture a Guardman without these essentials. Then they were like secret serviceman in the offset? Didn't the Praetorians exist briefly from time to time in the late republic's existance as handpicked soldiers from the legions (ie Octavivs...) ? I was not expecting this in your reply, is there any literature I can use to brush up on my obvious lack of knowlledge of the Guard? Thanks.

Post Scriptum-- Fides not Fideles



S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
I live in KS and I am going to check next week with attorney
where I work. He is company's chief Corporate Attorney and
I am going tell him what's going on and see what he says.


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
--
Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior
Wichita, KS
Nova Roma

AIM & YahooMsgr: GnLentulus

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to L. Sicinius Drusus. Salve.

This post may make some members feel that my comments are irrelevant to NR but I want to make them just the same and have a right to do so.
As most of the regular followers of this list know, I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronisms, Inc. as well as being a Civil War Reenactor, an English Civil War Reenactor(in the past), and a past member of the Archaeological Institute of America. Now the SCA is an international educational organization incorporated in the state of California and has about 30,000+ registered, dues-paying members worldwide.
[I recommend that you or someone else in the Senate check out their archives to find out about their articles of incorporation and how they have done what they have done for the last 37 years. If the Senior Consul wants me to do it, I will be happy to do so.]
Now the SCA has branches in Georgia and the largest group is in Atlanta but they are not a Georgia corporation. I have been an SCA member since 1976 and have never heard about any penalties being levied or lawsuits filed by the state of Georgia against the SCA's baronies, shires, strongholds, cantons, ports, or collegiae in Georgia.
There are national Civil War Associations (5th NY Duryee's Zouaves, Irish Brigade, Iron Brigade, Cumberland Guard, Military Dept. of the Mississippi) that have different military companies (aka local branches) based in many different states. These organizations have a board of directors, charters, authenticity guidelines, put out newsletters, and collect dues but most of them are not incorporated in every state where they have members.
The English Civil War Society of America is only incorporated in the state of Maryland but has military companies based in California, Virginia, Texas, and (formerly)Tennessee; they also have officers, dues, some have newsletters, et cetera but they were not incorporated in the states where they had sub-groups.
The AIA has three chapters in Tennessee but the Secretary of State does not have incorporation papers on any of them because (according to that office) the local groups are part of an incorporated education body yet they exist without state incorporation.
Now, while I recognize that due to human nature one cannot predict what a real jerk will do to screw other people and organizations. It is vaguely conceivable to a normal, moderately intelligent human like myself that someone would sue or screw NR because they did not get an office they wanted in a local group or their marriage ended because their spouse fell in love with another NR citizen. The important thing to remember is that there is no way to guarantee that you, me, NR or any other entity will not be sued even if we dot every 'i', cross every 't', and jump through every legal hoop in life.
As example, let's go back to the SCA. About 12 years ago, an experienced SCA fighter who had signed a waiver acknowledging he knew the risks involved in what he was doing, got hit so hard by another fighter that it caused some minor (but very real) nerve damage in his right hand. He sued the other fighter; the president, first aid officer, and martial arts director of the local group (seneschal, chirurgeon, and marshall); the local group; the owners of the camp that the event took place in; his kingdom; and the SCA, Inc. as a whole; and later his health care group; his neurosurgeon; and his insurance company. Despite knowing what he was doing and the risks; despite having seen other individuals get injured (some permanently); despite having a wife who was involved in the same organization & who was severed from participation because of her spouse's suits; and despite the fact that he was suing some friends he had known for years; this individual had to have someone take responsibility for what happened to him. It wasn't fair or logical or morally right, but he took his legal right to sue and went off.
Now, Drusus, let me ask you a (long, rambling) question. If the lex passes and someone begins the process to get a local group established in Georgia, are you going to inform the state authorities that some Ancient Roman enthusiasts, pagans, and historians are forming a local chapter to improve their Romitas and practice the ancient pagan religion of Rome and are also members of a micronational, internet-based group that is incorporated in Maine but not chartered or incorporated in the state of Georgia but who could be breaking the letter of the law (presuming that it is against the law or laws of Georgia) and you believe that the matter should be looked into?

Think about it and get back to me and the rest of the folks on the list. Vale.

Salvete omnes,

I apologise for my silence until now. It is not due to choice, but
to not having logged on to a computer until now.

In addition, there have been many posts on this subject since I last
logged on, and I will reply to those posts I can remember.

Firstly, Noricus, you're absolutely right: I take the full blame for
this incident - it was through my own negligence that I did not pay
my taxes.

Secondly, I actually have no idea who paid my taxes for me. However,
I'm very grateful to him/her. In fact, I'd appreciate it if you
could contact me privately so I can thank you more personally. :-)

Thirdly, yes, it was a different year, since the elections are at the
end of a year and the taxes in April and May.

Fourthly, Diana, it was mishandled, but primarily by me, since this
whole problem was brought on by my own forgetfulness.

Fifthly, I have yet to decide whether I will ask the Senate to re-
appoint me as Aedile; a hastily convened Senate would achieve little
since people need time to submit themselves for appointment.

Finally, although it might meet the letter of the law, I think it
might be abuse of the law to ask for re-appointment straight after
resigning my position. This is one of the main reasons I'm still
undecided.

I hope this answers everything it needed to.

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Salve, Diana -

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 04:53:10PM +0200, Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> Salve Noricus,
>
> <So *if* you wanted to attack somebody (I still remember that this is not
> personal *g*), you should fire at M. Scribonius too.
>
> LOL! Will do! :-)) I don't take any discussion personally unless someone
> says something nasty about my mother :-)))
>
> <I think you mean Propraetor Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (msg nr. 10029).
> Thanks for clearing a few things up, as well as me getting Sura's case and
> Britannicus' cases confused. I go blank *all the time* with names. It's
> really embarrassing when its a work colleague whom I've been working with
> for a few years and then after a vacation I can't remember what their name
> is :-p But numbers I never forget!!

<taking a few minutes break from huge unexpected workload>

Perhaps you should assign IP numbers to everyone you know. That will,
however, limit the number of people you can easily remember to 2^32
(i.e., a mere 4,294,967,296)... :)))


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Primum est non nocere.
First of all, do no harm.
-- Hippocrates; The maxim has become an ethical guiding principle in medicine.

Salve, coleague dearest,

On a turmoilly forum like ours, taking yourself the blame, and
admitting the mistake, is a rare virtue. Don´t torture yourself,
colleague, you did the best.

L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "curiobritannicus"
<Marcusaemiliusscaurus@h...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I apologise for my silence until now. It is not due to choice, but
> to not having logged on to a computer until now.
>
> In addition, there have been many posts on this subject since I

last

> logged on, and I will reply to those posts I can remember.
>
> Firstly, Noricus, you're absolutely right: I take the full blame

for

> this incident - it was through my own negligence that I did not pay
> my taxes.
>
> Secondly, I actually have no idea who paid my taxes for me.

However,

> I'm very grateful to him/her. In fact, I'd appreciate it if you
> could contact me privately so I can thank you more personally. :-)
>
> Thirdly, yes, it was a different year, since the elections are at

the

> end of a year and the taxes in April and May.
>
> Fourthly, Diana, it was mishandled, but primarily by me, since this
> whole problem was brought on by my own forgetfulness.
>
> Fifthly, I have yet to decide whether I will ask the Senate to re-
> appoint me as Aedile; a hastily convened Senate would achieve

little

> since people need time to submit themselves for appointment.
>
> Finally, although it might meet the letter of the law, I think it
> might be abuse of the law to ask for re-appointment straight after
> resigning my position. This is one of the main reasons I'm still
> undecided.
>
> I hope this answers everything it needed to.
>
> Bene valete,
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

In a message dated 10/2/03 11:58:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:

> thank you for response. According to the information that you provided, the
> portrayal of the Praetorian Guards in I Claudius was inaccurate.

Salvete
Yes it was. The German cavalry bodyguard (Germani custodes) were accurate
however.

A togate man wearing a sword just does not look right as I imagine it, no
cuirass,

> no scutum...I just can't picture a Guardman without these essentials.

No, one does not want soldiers standing around around the Senate house and
the Residence. It sends the wrong impression, when you are in a Republic.
Remember Augustus went through a large amount of playacting to give the impression
that he had restored the Republic, why dispell it?

Then they were like secret serviceman in the offset? Didn't the Praetorians
exist

> briefly from time to time in the late republic's existance as handpicked
> soldiers from the legions (ie Octavivs...) ?

Yes. The term comes from the fact they guard the leader's (praetor) quarters
(praetorium) They were usually picked by the various Legati of the legiones
for merit, stature, linage.

I was not expecting this in your reply, is there any literature I can use to
brush up

> on my obvious lack of knowledge of the Guard? Thanks.
>

Primary sources:
Early
Martialus: "Epigrams" Bk VI, 76.
Tacitus: "Annals" XVI, 27, XII 36.
Tacitus: "History" I, 38.
Suetonius "12 Emperors" Nero, 13.
Cassius "History" LXIII, 4.
Josephus "Jewish Antiques" XVIII-XX
"Death of Caligulia"

The best one single source of collected primary sources is "Les Cohortes,
Pretoriennes." by Marcel Durry. It is in French.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/2/03 12:41:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Marcusaemiliusscaurus@... writes:

> Finally, although it might meet the letter of the law, I think it
> might be abuse of the law to ask for re-appointment straight after
> resigning my position. This is one of the main reasons I'm still
> undecided.
>
>

Actually, could we not use the "cooling off lex" to reinstate him? We used
the same lex to reinstate Cornelius Sulla. When were the dues paid, which made
reinstating possible?

Q Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is a resignation lex, he did not resign his citizenship. So, it
isnt really applicable.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/2/03 12:41:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Marcusaemiliusscaurus@h... writes:
>
>
> > Finally, although it might meet the letter of the law, I think it
> > might be abuse of the law to ask for re-appointment straight
after
> > resigning my position. This is one of the main reasons I'm still
> > undecided.
> >
> >
>
> Actually, could we not use the "cooling off lex" to reinstate him?
We used
> the same lex to reinstate Cornelius Sulla. When were the dues
paid, which made
> reinstating possible?
>
> Q Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@...> wrote:

> Salve,
> I was looking over the laws in my home State this
> morning. Foreign Corporations, and that includes
> ones
> incorporated in another USA State, like Maine, are
> required to register with the Georgia Secratary of
> States Corporate Divison if they do business in the
> state of Georgia. This includes Non Profits. This
> has
> to be done each year, and the annual fee is $30.00.
>
> So if we had a local group in the state of Georgia
> we
> would have to register Nova Roma with the state, and
> it would cost Nova Roma 30 dollars per year. If the
> other US States have the same laws and the same
> fees,
> then we are looking at 30 times 50 or 1,500 Dollars
> a
> year expenses just to operate local groups in the
> United States.
>
>

I don't think that holding meetings of local groups
in Georgia would be in violation of Georgia law.
-------------------------------------------------------
14-3-1501.

(a) A foreign corporation may not transact business in
this state until it obtains a certificate of authority
from the Secretary of State.

(b) The following activities, among others, do not
constitute transacting business within the meaning of
subsection (a) of this Code section:

(2) Holding meetings of its directors or members or
carrying on other activities concerning its internal
affairs;

(3) Maintaining bank accounts, share accounts in
savings and loan associations, custodian or agency
arrangements with a bank or trust company, or stock or
bond brokerage accounts;


(13) Owning and controlling a subsidiary corporation
incorporated in or transacting business within this
state.


-------------------------------------------------------

According to this statute holding meetings or
maintaining bank accounts do not constitute "doing
business" and therefore no certificate of authority
would be necessary.

It has been said in the discussion on this law that
the local groups are not part of Nova Roma's
administrative structure, but are essentially
autonomous entities.

Most states have statutes similar to the ones
enumerated here by Georgia. So it may be preferable
for local groups to be considered a subordinate part
of the administrative structure to take advantage of
the "holding meetings" clause.

If local groups are not part of the administrative
structure, then Nova Roma could incorporate it under
Georgia law, but not have to procure a certificate of
authroity for itself.

In the latter case, my suggestion would be that the
local group be responsible for preparing the
documentation and filing fees for incorporation, but
they could request that after the prepartory work has
been done that the incorporator be Nova Roma, rather
than any particular individuals.

I have also looked at the statute for my home state of
Michigan, which in regard to what does not constitute
"doing business" had substantially the same language
as in Georgia's with the exception of the
"subsidiaries" clause.



Lucius Quintius Constantius



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