>Julilla Sempronia Magna civibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
>
>I stand before you today (virtually, at least) wearing my stola and palla
>candida, to present my candidacy for Tribuna Plebis for the year 2757 A.V.C.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
"Do you want to talk to the Patrician consul or would you rather
speak with the Plebian tribune (accensus, curator, aedile, rogator,
quaestor et cetera) that knows what is actually going on?"


Actually it's the rogators that really run things. Oh you want to be
Consul, that is going to cost a lot of cheesecake and baklava to make
sure the votes fall your way. You have a Lex to put forth, that's a
chocolate chip cookie a word by the way. <EVIL GRIN> I gained
almost 100 lbs thanks to the endless tribune run-offs this spring. If
the Tribunes hadn't stepped in I'd likely as not be on the cover of a
tabloid being hauled out of my apartment by a forklift.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

>
>
> It is a nostalgic time for me.
>
> Ending the last Ludi of the year is sure an
> experience...
>
> You have to forgive me the simplicity of these
> games, sure NR deserves more. But I still mourn the
> absence of the Junior Aedilis Plebis and Flaminem
> Cerealis. And raise a pray for the Gods, for Mother
> Ceres, that next year the aedilis plebis be even
> better than this one.
>
> Anyway, may the gods be satisfied with our still
> few, still imperfect, still virtual, still late,
> still last ludi.
>
>
> Valete,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,

> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

> Actually it's the rogators that really run things.
> Oh you want to be
> Consul, that is going to cost a lot of cheesecake
> and baklava to make
> sure the votes fall your way. [..]
>
> Vale,
> Q. Cassius Calvus

>
> Salve,
>
> My name is Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor. I have been a citizen since July.
> I have just now joined the mail list. I also have joined Legion XXIV MA. I
> have been looking at others profiles and noticed they have a Century, Tribe and
> votercode. I have been wondering how do I get them? Can someone help me with
> this?

> Actually it's the rogators that really run things. Oh you want to be
> Consul, that is going to cost a lot of cheesecake and baklava to make
> sure the votes fall your way. You have a Lex to put forth, that's a
> chocolate chip cookie a word by the way. <EVIL GRIN>

>Salvete:
>
>Last year there was a webpage that allowed citizens to view who was running
>for any particular magistracy. Is this no longer a policy that the current
>Consuls wish to adopt?
>
>The website was an excellent way for people to view who was running, and was
>much more convent than searching a yahoo e-list.
>
>Vale;
>
>G. Modius Athanasius
>Candidate for Tribunus Plebis
>Flamen Pomonalis

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristoffer From
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Elections Page


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
| I have been looking for that page too, but building such isn't the
| job of the Consules. I will contact the Curator Araneum today and ask
| for such a page though.

Salve, Caeso Fabi Quintiliane.

I initialised this year's election page and put a link to it on the
front page, just above the search field. I couldn't think of any
suitable text for the link, so it's a bit odd (at least to my eyes) and
I'm not sure if I found all declarations of candidacy. Oh well. Let me
know if anything needs to be changed, mmkay?

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/t3NBAGtgaSonkUoRAgHeAJ4iGNZUhpISGRu7GfpisTbhetZnygCfUk92
iJTID4aH658xcspkSt0s3f0=
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> The count of Citizens:
>
> province | count
> -----------------------------------+-------
> none | 39
> America Austroccidentalis | 55
> America Austrorientalis | 78
> America Boreoccidentalis | 29
> America Medioccidentalis Superior | 20
> Argentina | 16
> Asia Occidentalis | 5
> Asia Orientalis | 1
> Australia | 12
> Brasilia | 41
> Britannia | 53
> California | 45
> Canada Occidentalis | 10
> Canada Orientalis | 22
> Gallia | 50
> Germania | 45
> Hispania | 75
> Italia | 122
> Lacus Magni | 75
> Mediatlantica | 131
> Mexico | 12
> Nova Britannia | 63
> Pannonia | 14
> Sarmatia | 3
> Thule | 29
> Venedia | 18
>
> Socii:
> -----------------------------------+-------
> none | 34
> America Austroccidentalis | 102
> America Austrorientalis | 90
> America Boreoccidentalis | 29
> America Medioccidentalis Superior | 45
> Argentina | 13
> Asia Occidentalis | 9
> Asia Orientalis | 8
> Australia | 35
> Brasilia | 35
> Britannia | 48
> California | 72
> Canada Occidentalis | 23
> Canada Orientalis | 32
> Gallia | 31
> Germania | 26
> Hispania | 60
> Italia | 92
> Lacus Magni | 81
> Mediatlantica | 90
> Mexico | 7
> Nova Britannia | 36
> Pannonia | 18
> Sarmatia | 4
> Thule | 19
> Venedia | 5
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 8:10 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Census Report


Salve Censor Germanicus,

please, help me to understand :-) , the following schedule is the
number of citizens classified as Socii or the number of active
citizens?

Vale
Fr. APulus Caesar
Propraetor Italiae


> The count of Citizens:
>
> province | count
> -----------------------------------+-------
> none | 39
> America Austroccidentalis | 55
> America Austrorientalis | 78
> America Boreoccidentalis | 29
> America Medioccidentalis Superior | 20
> Argentina | 16
> Asia Occidentalis | 5
> Asia Orientalis | 1
> Australia | 12
> Brasilia | 41
> Britannia | 53
> California | 45
> Canada Occidentalis | 10
> Canada Orientalis | 22
> Gallia | 50
> Germania | 45
> Hispania | 75
> Italia | 122
> Lacus Magni | 75
> Mediatlantica | 131
> Mexico | 12
> Nova Britannia | 63
> Pannonia | 14
> Sarmatia | 3
> Thule | 29
> Venedia | 18
>
> Socii:
> -----------------------------------+-------
> none | 34
> America Austroccidentalis | 102
> America Austrorientalis | 90
> America Boreoccidentalis | 29
> America Medioccidentalis Superior | 45
> Argentina | 13
> Asia Occidentalis | 9
> Asia Orientalis | 8
> Australia | 35
> Brasilia | 35
> Britannia | 48
> California | 72
> Canada Occidentalis | 23
> Canada Orientalis | 32
> Gallia | 31
> Germania | 26
> Hispania | 60
> Italia | 92
> Lacus Magni | 81
> Mediatlantica | 90
> Mexico | 7
> Nova Britannia | 36
> Pannonia | 18
> Sarmatia | 4
> Thule | 19
> Venedia | 5
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Here's a link to "Learning to Read Rome's Ruins":
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/vatican.exhibit/exhibit/b-archeology/
> Archaeology.html

> Caius Curius Saturninus omnes cives Nova Romani SPD
>
> I present myself to you as a candidate for Quaestor. After couple

> years learning in the various cohortes of the elected magistrates

> believe that I am knowledgeful enough to start my own public

>
> I will shortly introduce myself here:
> I'm new Paterfamilias of Gens Curia, Legate of Regio Finnica of

> Thule provincia and Procurator (Headmaster) of Academia Thules. I
> have been citizen since March 2001. Since the approving of my
> citizenship I have daily offered my time and energy for the
> development of Nova Roma.
>
> I have served in the cohortes of following magistrates and

> Legate and Scriba in Provincia Thule
> Scriba in the cohors Aedilis 2002 (Caeso Fabius Quintilianus)
> Scriba in the cohors Aedilis 2003 (Franciscus Apulus Caesar)
> Scriba in the cohors Praetoria 2003 (Gnaeus Salix Astur)
> Accensus in the cohors Consulis 2003 (Caeso Fabius Quintilianus)
>
> Working together with others and doing my share has always been

> of leading principles of life. I also value highly honesty, active
> participation, willingness to learn and honor. These principles I

> to carry with me in every task I undertake.
>
> ** Why you should vote me **
> - I am qualified for the position of Quaestor due my experience
> - I am willing to dedicate myself into the service of higher
> magistrate and do my share
> - I have experience outside Nova Roma on business management,

> of team of professionals and also of finances of
> non-profit-organisations
>
> If I am elected I will serve the state and the people with

>
> I will happily answer any questions either privately or publicly.
>
> Valete,
> --
>
> Caius Curius Saturninus
>
> Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
> Legatus Regionis Finnicae
> Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et

>
> e-mail: c.curius@w...
> www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
> www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
> gsm: +358-50-3315279
> fax: +358-9-8754751

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
> | I have been looking for that page too, but building such isn't
the
> | job of the Consules. I will contact the Curator Araneum today
and ask
> | for such a page though.
>
> Salve, Caeso Fabi Quintiliane.
>
> I initialised this year's election page and put a link to it on the
> front page, just above the search field. I couldn't think of any
> suitable text for the link, so it's a bit odd (at least to my
eyes) and
> I'm not sure if I found all declarations of candidacy. Oh well.
Let me
> know if anything needs to be changed, mmkay?
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/t3NBAGtgaSonkUoRAgHeAJ4iGNZUhpISGRu7GfpisTbhetZnygCfUk92
> iJTID4aH658xcspkSt0s3f0=
> =1AGD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

> Salvete Quirites,
>
>
> I, Marcus Arminius Maior, present myself to the people
> as candidate for the office of Praetor of Nova Roma.
>
> I am 32 years old, live in southern Brazil and im a
> member of Nova Roma since july 2000.
>
> I was Aedilis Plebeius at 2754 auc (2001 AD), Tribunus
> Plebis at 2755 auc (2002 AD), and currently i am
> Propraetor of Brasilia (since 2754 auc/2001 AD) and
> Senator of Nova Roma. I served at various functions as
> scribe, and now im censorial scribe.
>
>
> Valete
> Marcus Arminius Maior
>
>
>

>
> Yahoo! Mail: 6MB, anti-spam e antivírus gratuito! Crie sua conta

> http://mail.yahoo.com.br

> > Here's a link to "Learning to Read Rome's Ruins":
>>
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/vatican.exhibit/exhibit/b-archeology/
>> Archaeology.html
>
>Thank you for this, Scaurus -- it's fascinating!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
> | in the elections page there isn't my candidacy as Tribune, look
at
> | the message 16407 [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-
> | Roma/message/16407]
> | And there isn't the candidacy to Tribune of Lucius Quintius
> | Constantius, look at the message 16304
> | [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/16304%5d
> | Please, can you corretc it? Thank you very much.
>
> Salve, Francisce Apule Caesar.
>
> Mea Culpa, I had missed both of you for some reason. I've added
you now,
> ~ so things should be working properly. I only scanned the
subjects,
> which caused your mail to be overlooked as it didn't start with
> "Candidacy", and Constantinus since he was a bit earlier than I'd
expected.
>
> Thanks to all citizens who make me aware of these things. Details
aren't
> exactly my forte. :)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/t5IXAGtgaSonkUoRApcOAJsGuJlGz5kCDZNMq/EjolpvtL4yiACfWIFI
> yooYkI4vsXuXQj+WooluTwI=
> =Hi0t
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

> I would like to thank the all aediles and their helpers for their hard
> work and wonderful results.

> I think you'll make an excellent rogator, Cordus. I
> look forward to
> voting for you. You've been a mainstay in the
> Consul's office of
> law and politics this year.

> Rogators have to be reliable. Remember this when
> you vote for them.

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
> Maximus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> > Rogators have to be reliable. Remember this when
> > you vote for them.
>
> I'm wracking my brains trying to think whether this is
> an endorsement or a warning... :)

> 2. After giving you a little while to settle into the
> job I shall be contacting those of you who are elected
> to encourage you to rescue the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa's voting system from its recent disaster. How
> will you react?

> With the new Lex I have rescued the future Tribune's of 2757 from having a
> stressful first 6 months in office like their predecessors did.

> In a message dated 11/16/2003 7:12:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>
> > With the new Lex I have rescued the future Tribune's of 2757 from

> > stressful first 6 months in office like their predecessors did.
>
> As a victim of the run-off elections -- from last year -- I can

>
> Vale;
>
> G. Modius Athanasius

> I would like to publicly thank Marcus Octavius Germanicus and all

> participated in this project. It is a valuable step in

> who our Citizens are and how we can serve them. Thank you for your
> dedication and effort.
>
>
> -----
> Patricia Cassia
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...

----- Original Message -----
From: <jmath669642reng@...>
To: "Ciarin" <_ciarin_@...>
Cc: <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 9:07 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Gens Minucia Website

> I am both pleased and proud to invite anyone who might have the
> slightest interest, to view what a very talented member of Nova Roma has
> brought about:
>
> http://ciarin.com/Minucia/

Excellent Website. Very well made. Keep up the good work- and good luck on
the merger

Respectfully,

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/

----- Original Message -----
From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Patrician, Plebian, Freedman, Slave.


Don't you two have fields that need working or animals to tend?

-S E M T
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Sent: Nov 14, 2003 3:47 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Patrician, Plebian, Freedman, Slave.

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve DEAR Cousin <BR>
<BR>
I had to get off the floor in order to response to this YOU ARE TOO MUCH FUNNY VERY FUNNY!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your cus <BR>
<BR>
Tiberius<BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <BR>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <BR>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 3:36 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Patrician, Plebian, Freedman, Slave.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The difference between the Patricians and the Plebians in NR is very simple. The Patricians are allowed to have some extra points, run for a couple of offices (like Censor or Consul), and get to preen a bit about their nobility. Meanwhile the Plebian assemblies and tribunes get to make all the real decisions, call for all the voting, run for all the truly meaningful offices (except for Curator Differum and Arcanem, which are so much like real work a Patrician would never run for those anyway), and pronounce intercessio when any of the Patricians start to believe they are running things. So it basically breaks down to the old adage, "Do you want to talk to the Patrician consul or would you rather speak with the Plebian tribune (accensus, curator, aedile, rogator, quaestor et cetera) that knows what is actually going on?"<BR>
<BR>
F Gal Aur Sec (ROTFLMAO)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Are you just saying that because I chose Gens Equitia?
> Like I said, it was a close decision - you really shouldn't take it so
> personally!
>
>

>Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:35:10 -0000
> From: "Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@...>
>Subject: Re: Candidacy Announcement from C. Curius Saturninus for Quaestor
>
>Salve Saturninus, Amice,
>
>congratulations and good luck!
>I'll support your candidacy, you have done a wonderful job in the
>last years.
>I'm very happy and proud to have you as my Scriba Aedilis, your job
>and your efforts was even very important for me.
>And in Bologna, during the meeting, I discovered what a fine and
>skilled man you're.
>I'm sure you could do very much to the Res Publica in the future.
>
>Vale
>Fr. Apulus Caesar
>Senior Curule Aedile
>
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Curius Saturninus
><c.curius@w...> wrote:
>> Caius Curius Saturninus omnes cives Nova Romani SPD
>>
>> I present myself to you as a candidate for Quaestor. After couple
>of
>> years learning in the various cohortes of the elected magistrates
>I
>> believe that I am knowledgeful enough to start my own public
>career.
>>
>> I will shortly introduce myself here:
>> I'm new Paterfamilias of Gens Curia, Legate of Regio Finnica of
>the
>> Thule provincia and Procurator (Headmaster) of Academia Thules. I
>> have been citizen since March 2001. Since the approving of my
>> citizenship I have daily offered my time and energy for the
>> development of Nova Roma.
>>
>> I have served in the cohortes of following magistrates and
>officials:
>> Legate and Scriba in Provincia Thule
>> Scriba in the cohors Aedilis 2002 (Caeso Fabius Quintilianus)
>> Scriba in the cohors Aedilis 2003 (Franciscus Apulus Caesar)
>> Scriba in the cohors Praetoria 2003 (Gnaeus Salix Astur)
>> Accensus in the cohors Consulis 2003 (Caeso Fabius Quintilianus)
>>
>> Working together with others and doing my share has always been
>one
>> of leading principles of life. I also value highly honesty, active
>> participation, willingness to learn and honor. These principles I
>try
>> to carry with me in every task I undertake.
>>
>> ** Why you should vote me **
>> - I am qualified for the position of Quaestor due my experience
>> - I am willing to dedicate myself into the service of higher
>> magistrate and do my share
>> - I have experience outside Nova Roma on business management,
>leading
>> of team of professionals and also of finances of
>> non-profit-organisations
>>
>> If I am elected I will serve the state and the people with
>dedication.
>>
> > I will happily answer any questions either privately or publicly.

> Salvete,
>
> I echo that sentiment and thank Marcus Octavius Germanicus as
> well. It is certainly an interesting result. I wonder if a curve

> be shown using those numbers that will give an indication of how
> long interest lasts in NR. Perhaps activities or other things can

> designed to help get new members over that hump, if they are new
> members. Just curious.
>
> Valete,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...>
> wrote:
> > I would like to publicly thank Marcus Octavius Germanicus and all
> who
> > participated in this project. It is a valuable step in
> understanding
> > who our Citizens are and how we can serve them. Thank you for

> > dedication and effort.
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Patricia Cassia
> > Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> > Nova Roma . pcassia@n...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Annia Minucia Sempronia, Webmistress for the Gens Minucia;
>
> I write this message of congratulation in recognition of the
outstanding
> job that you have done with the Minucia Gens Website. When I asked
you
> to put together a website for our Gens, I had no idea of your
skills and
> ideas. I am extremely impressed with the result.
>
> You have put a great deal of effort into the website and it's
expansion.
> You have my full appreciation for your efforts, and for your skills.
>
> I am indeed very proud of the work that you have done, and feel
indeed
> fortunate to have such a skilled artist in the Gens Minucia. I
offer
> you my most sincere and deepest congratulations for your work as
well as
> my most significant appreciation for the artistry that you have
created.
>
> I am both pleased and proud to invite anyone who might have the
> slightest interest, to view what a very talented member of Nova
Roma has
> brought about:
>
> http://ciarin.com/Minucia/
>
> Respectfully and With Highest Regards;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Paterfamilius, Gens Minucia
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

> Lucius Equitius Quiritibus SPD
>
> Cincinnatus: I'm pleased to welcome Mercurius to Nova Roma and Gens

>

> If you can prove your case that you are a reliable
> person then it is
> both. Since it would be improper for a sitting
> Rogator to endorse or
> oppose any specific candidate due to conflict of
> interest, I'll just
> leave it at that.

> "Rescue the Comitia Plebis Tributa's voting system
> from its recent disaster"???. Well that was
> pretty nasty. You usually water down your negative
> comments by legalese and fluffy words so much
> that most people don't remember much other than your
> 'I'm well. I hope your well too' intros.

> Cordus, you have held no office this year so do not
> go throwing barbs at me as if I am a total
> freakin' idiot instead of someone who has done much
> more than her share of work in Nova Roma this
> year. Check the archives to see who has posted the
> most Senate Reports and organized the most
> elections. Check to see which Tribune consistently
> answered requests for intercessio and which
> Tribune was consistently on the mainlist interested
> in new leges. Ask your friends in the Senate
> which Tribune constantly brought up the Eagle. Which
> Tribune answered emails about the Tribune's
> duties on the CPT list? Which Tribune presented 2
> leges? Which Tribune has made an entire website
> with a Tribune's website so that all future Tribunes
> will know their job inside and out even before
> they officially take office? And ask around to see
> which Tribune the citizens email when they have
> a problem. You'll find my name comes up 80 percent
> of the time.

> The 'disaster' was in 2756 when we had 5 run-off
> elections. Of course since you weren't the person
> who spent *HOURS AND HOURS* each week for 6 months
> organizing those run-offs and trying to get the
> Senate to co-opt a 5th Tribune because not enough
> Plebeians cared enough about the elections to
> vote, it is quite easy for you to sit back and make
> comments like the one above. With the new Lex I
> have rescued the future Tribune's of 2757 from
> having a stressful first 6 months in office like
> their predecessors did. Since the Tribunes of 2757
> won't have to waste hours and hours of their
> first 6 months of office trying to fill vacant
> Tribune seats they will certainly have time to
> present a better electoral reform bill. Until then,
> try appreciating my work just a bit...

>
> Fair enough. I'm not sure how best to 'prove' my
> reliability - I suppose the best thing to say is that
> I can't recall that if I've ever said that I would do
> something then I've done it, and that if I've said I
> wouldn't do something then I haven't. But Senator
> Maximus is quite right to say that voters shouldn't
> take my word for that, and if they can find any
> evidence of unreliability in my record they should
> challenge me with it.
>
>

> Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

> Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

> I would like to publicly thank Marcus Octavius Germanicus and all <BR>

> participated in this project. It is a valuable step in <BR>

> who our Citizens are and how we can serve them. Thank you for your <BR>
> dedication and effort.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> -----<BR>
> Patricia Cassia<BR>
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis<BR>
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...<BR>

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:35 PM
Subject: [CPT] Re: [Nova-Roma] disasters


A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune Diana Moravia Aventina
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well. And before I forget to
say so, I enjoyed your website (though I admit I
haven't read it all yet).

Now, down to business.

> "Rescue the Comitia Plebis Tributa's voting system
> from its recent disaster"???. Well that was
> pretty nasty. You usually water down your negative
> comments by legalese and fluffy words so much
> that most people don't remember much other than your
> 'I'm well. I hope your well too' intros.

I'm sorry if you felt my remark was nasty. I'm always
very careful to distinguish between people and their
actions, and if I condemn a person's action that
doesn't mean I condemn the person. I absolutely don't
condemn you, and indeed I praise you for all the work
you've done including bothering to address the voting
issue. However, as I have made abundantly clear over
the last several months, I do consider your lex de
Suffragiis disastrous, and that's precisely why I
shall be urging next year's tribunes to reverse it as
soon as possible.

> Cordus, you have held no office this year so do not
> go throwing barbs at me as if I am a total
> freakin' idiot instead of someone who has done much
> more than her share of work in Nova Roma this
> year. Check the archives to see who has posted the
> most Senate Reports and organized the most
> elections. Check to see which Tribune consistently
> answered requests for intercessio and which
> Tribune was consistently on the mainlist interested
> in new leges. Ask your friends in the Senate
> which Tribune constantly brought up the Eagle. Which
> Tribune answered emails about the Tribune's
> duties on the CPT list? Which Tribune presented 2
> leges? Which Tribune has made an entire website
> with a Tribune's website so that all future Tribunes
> will know their job inside and out even before
> they officially take office? And ask around to see
> which Tribune the citizens email when they have
> a problem. You'll find my name comes up 80 percent
> of the time.

Since you've broached this subject, I have to say I
agree with you. I've been extremely disappointed by
the appearance of inactivity given by your tribunician
colleagues this year. The voting system issue is a
good example. You made an effort to address it, and I
give you full credit for that. I worked hard to point
out the problems with your solution. I frankly didn't
expect to persuade you to change your mind, because
you're as stubborn in standing by what we believe is
right as I am. You believe that a law which produces
five tribunes, whether they're the tribunes voters
actually want or not, is right; I disagree. That's
fine. I was, however, rather hoping that some of your
colleagues might think about the discussion we were
having and say where they stood on the issue. Tribune
Geminus Sceptius did, I must say, eventually come out
in agreement with me to advise plebeians not to vote
for your measure; I wish he had done it before most
people had finished voting.

You'll remember I raised the question of whether your
colleagues were pulling their weight at the time, and
you assured me that they were all working hard behind
the scenes. Now you seem to be saying they weren't. So
if you feel you've been shouldering an unfair
proportion of the tribunes' work, I'd be quite
prepared to believe it; and though I've not spent as
many hours as you working for the good of the plebs, I
hope you'll recognize that I, too, have spent many
hours over many months trying to make sure that the
plebs get the best electoral system possible. You're
right, you're a magistrate and I'm not; you've been
doing your duty, and I hope you'll understand that I
felt I was doing my duty, and I continue to do it. The
fact that you disagree with me doesn't mean you need
to attack me.

And I'm afraid I do consider this an attack. You may
say, and you may even think, that this message of
yours was simply an act of self-defence against what
you perceived as a criticism of yourself, and what was
in fact a criticism of one of your policies. But my
criticism was made on the plebeian list, and you've
for some reason brought the issue, which is nothing to
do with anyone who isn't plebeian, onto the main list
so that as many people as possible can see you
defending yourself against me. I don't understand why
you've done it, but if you want to carry on this
discussion I suggest we move it back to the plebeian
list, since the voting system of the plebs is of no
concern to patricians.

> The 'disaster' was in 2756 when we had 5 run-off
> elections. Of course since you weren't the person
> who spent *HOURS AND HOURS* each week for 6 months
> organizing those run-offs and trying to get the
> Senate to co-opt a 5th Tribune because not enough
> Plebeians cared enough about the elections to
> vote, it is quite easy for you to sit back and make
> comments like the one above. With the new Lex I
> have rescued the future Tribune's of 2757 from
> having a stressful first 6 months in office like
> their predecessors did. Since the Tribunes of 2757
> won't have to waste hours and hours of their
> first 6 months of office trying to fill vacant
> Tribune seats they will certainly have time to
> present a better electoral reform bill. Until then,
> try appreciating my work just a bit...

I have been consistently supportive of your efforts to
reform the voting system. Wherever possible I've
discussed it with you privately to avoid unnecessary
wrangling in public. For months I tried to persuade
you to change your proposed system to a better one
which would both eliminate run-offs and elect the
candidates with the widest support. Only when all
these efforts failed and voting actually began did I
call on voters to vote against your system, because
there were by then only two options, and your system
was the worse.

You seem to imply that I want an electoral system that
involves six months of run-offs. This is rubbish, and
you know it: I've consistently tried to persuade you
to let the plebs choose an electoral system which will
eliminate run-offs just as completely as yours but
which has none of the flaws yours has. It was your
refusal to change your system that forced me and other
plebeians to choose between the old system, which is
drastically inefficient, and yours, which is
drastically unrepresentative. I chose, and I urged
people to stick with the old system, because although
it is almost the worst electoral system anyone could
imagine it was better than the alternative. Everyone
here will remember the efforts I spent criticising the
old system and arguing for it to be changed: the fact
that I would choose the old system over yours shows
you how strongly I believe your system is disastrous.

And don't forget I'm running for rogator for next
year. That means that if it hadn't been for your lex
de Suffragiis the it *would* be spending those hours
and hours each week for six months counting votes in
run-off elections. I know perfectly well how much work
would be involved. And I still say that I would rather
that than your system: rather hours and hours of
unnecessary work for me than a system which risks
electing tribunes who are supported by tiny minorities
and opposed by large majorities. Your system, whether
you are willing to admit it or not, is a system of 'we
must have five tribunes and I don't care whether or
not they're the ones the people want'. I've spent
'hours and hours' demonstrating to you in evey
conceivable way that it completely undermines the idea
that elections should reflect the will of the voters.
Not once have you responded to my demonstrations to
try to disprove them. So I'll say it again; if you
think I'm wrong, then prove it: You have been an
excellent tribune, and your electoral system is a disaster.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>That makes for roughly 98 (about 3 plebians per rural tribe)
> plebians doing 88% of the plebian voting with 350 or so plebians doing
> only 12% of the voting!

> I would like to publicly thank Marcus Octavius Germanicus and all <BR>

> participated in this project. It is a valuable step in <BR>

> who our Citizens are and how we can serve them. Thank you for your <BR>
> dedication and effort.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> -----<BR>
> Patricia Cassia<BR>
> Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis<BR>
> Nova Roma . pcassia@n...<BR>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus" <hermeticagnosis@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Census Report


Salvete
Good question. When looking at the Website materials, I certainly found
the bit on So You're a New Citizen - What Next? to be well intentioned but
not especially helpful as is (no offense to the author intended - I
understand how hard it can be to write such a general piece for people with
diverse interests!) - it should perhaps emphasize checking out the interest
groups and getting involved more strongly.
Ultimately it's a two way street - if the new person isn't willing to
apply some effort in writing to people, participating in interests or
otherwise getting 'connected' there's nothing we can do about it.
The other side of the street IS something we can do something about, as a
Community: When someone first logs onto the list and expresses interest,
I've noticed at least half a dozen people who immediately put themselves
forward and offer assistance, & as a new Citizen myself let me tell you (in
case you've forgotten) that's a really good, warm feeling of being welcomed.
The question is, how many are following through with them after the initial
contact? If the initial half dozen drops off to only one or two that
maintain contact with the new person, that's probably not so good - yet most
people probably aren't saving the initial contact mesage & the new person's
address, so here's an idea that might help:
Create an official Webpage. List 3 categories: New Contact/Interested ;
New Member (but not yet a Citizen) ; New Citizens . Have each new person's
name and web address listed in the appropriate category, along with either a
Profile or a list of the new person's Interests (or both). Set it up so the
new person can remove themselves from the Page at any time, if they no
longer wish to be contacted; otherwise leave the new person's name up for 6
months or a year.
This would allow busy Citizens who don't follow the Main List regularly,
or accidentally delete info, to be able at any time to check up on who's new
and contact them. Making new friends and a sense of Community are, I
suspect, the key to getting over "The Hump". (I guess I'll know for sure in
6 months or a year!) I lucked out & made new friends right away, so I think
it's a safe bet that I'll still be here as long as they're still here. A
"Newbies" page would allow others the same good fortune!
Valete,
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus


I agree with you 100%. I am involved in a couple of other web-based groups
(for online gaming) and The initial contact, and support structure are key
to getting people in, and keeping them there. I've been in NR for about 2
months now and I have not really gotten to know many of you. I enjoyed the
racing (Go veneta) and have been following the discussions, attempting to
learn what the current topics are, but the support for new members is not as
strong as it could be. Perhaps the Gens Leader should be in charge of that,
or perhaps some sort of volutary division of members who's sole purpose is
to get people settled and aquainted with current Governmental Officials,
upcoming events, and any current topics that they could enter into.

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/