Attention Please:
The young man who requested assistance with a paper on Rome wrote back with more details (see below).
Can anyone please help this young man who has appealed to us for assistance? We have plenty of Historians here!
Please take a moment to send him your thoughts on his topic.
His name is Clark, address below.
Justinian, mia Filio, You're a Senior too and have learned a lot lately - Could you also write to him please?
Thanking you in advance, you helpful Citizens
Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: NCTraveler@...
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 4:51 PM
To: hermeticagnosis@...
Subject: Re: Help with paper

first of all thank you for responding. Your the first person who has been willing to help. The paper is actually my senior exit paper for 12th grade. My topic is two parts; the first is to explain why Rome collapsed, the second is a comparison to the modern United States. My thesis is that Rome fell because of a series of factors and mistakes. I hope to show that the U.S. is making similiar mistakes and thus ushering in our own destruction. I chose this topic because, of all the subjects I've read about ancient rome intrested me the most.Any help that one of your experts could provide would mean alot to me.
                                                                                    Thankful for your consideration,
                                                                                          Clark Kerschner

Salvete omnes,

I'd like to introduce myself, although I've been following this group
and posting occasional replies for the last two weeks as Gaius.
My Gens confirmation has arrived, I'm now part of the Gens Cornelia with
the name of Gaius Cornelius Severus.
I live in Britannia and work in Deva near the Legionary camp.I'm a
trainer, teaching railway signalling and safety subjects.
Outside work I speak (and translate) reasonably good French, Spanish and
some bits of German and Russian (as well as Latin).I'm a Linux
enthusiast, I've written articles on Linux for UK magazines and
tutorials for various web sites.
I read everythimg.
I'd like to thank all who replied to my emails, it's a good group to
belong to. If I can offer any assistance to other group members, I'd be
happy to do so.
I'm delighted to be a citizen of Nova Roma, may Fortuna and the Divine
Julius Caesar smile in your direction,

avete,

Gaius Cornelius Severus

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dixit:

I place myself before you in candidacy for the Consulship of 2757 auc.

A week ago, I informed Consul T. Labienus Fortunatus of my intention
to run, and in the interim some have noticed my name on the list of
candidates for Consul. But until now other obligations have prevented
me from having the time to craft a proper statement; the kind of statement
I believe you all deserve from anyone who would seek the office of Consul.

As Consul, I shall pursue a course of continuing improvement. Nova Roma
has come a long way this year under the leadership of our two able
Consuls, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus. I will
build on the progress that they have made, pursuing progress which
incorporates the integrity, the enthusiasm, and the popular reforms which
I have been privileged to work on during this past year as an advisor to
our current senior Consul.

Nobody, not a Fabius nor an Equitius nor even a Iulius Caesar, can do
within one year's time all those things which ought to be done to bring
Nova Roma into the full realization of our potential. But in the time
that you give me to serve you, I promise that I shall not be idle. I
will work with our most active and able citizens to bring us closer to
the Mos Maiorum in our laws. I will work to bring more Nova Romans into
face-to-face meetings with each other. I will ask each of you to let
me know your thoughts and opinions on whatever matters most to you in
our micronation, and when I finally lay down the fasces of office I
will leave a structure that is stronger, abler, and more clearly
directed into the future, underpinned by the strength of the past.

In my years as a Nova Roman citizen I have served from the very beginning.
I came first to the Sodalitas Militarium, where I sought out an opportunity
for service and was granted the post of Accensus by Praefectus Marcus
Minucius Audens. I have also been active in the Sodalitas Musarum since
my earliest days, and now serve as an officer of that society as well.
I'm active in many other sodalites as well, and continue to participate
in the cultural life of our republic.

For the last two years, I've been active in Nova Roman politics. I
began as an assistant to Caeso Fabius Quintilianus when he was elected
Curule Aedile. I later became his colleague, as Curule Aedile suffectus
when his elected colleague resigned. A year ago, you elected me to
continue in that office, and I have served you as Curule Aedile all
through this year. I have also continued to work closely with Consul
Quintilianus as the leader of his office of law and politics, a part
of his Consular cohort. Almost a year ago, I also took up the duties
as governor of provincia Mediatlantica, where I worked from the very
first day to reinvigorate the citizens of the province. I am pleased
that through my efforts and those of my able legates, we have brought
back a number of once-idle citizens.

Those of you who have met me in person know that with me, what you see
is what you get. I'm a retired US Marine, and I take great pride in
that. In two days I will mark 31 years of marriage to my dear wife
Paulina Gratidia Equitia. I am proud to be the father of both Gratia
Equitia Marina and Alia Equitia Marina, and I am pleased that my wife
and daughters chose to follow me into Nova Roma. I am a professional
astronomer working in space-based research, and I teach at the
university level as an adjunct professor of physics and astronomy.
I also continue to serve in uniform, as an officer of my state's
defense force.

I know that each of us has a vision of Nova Roma, and a hope for what
Nova Roma can be. I ask you each to share your dreams with me, to elect
me your Consul, and to come with me into the new year where we will take
those next steps toward our common goal.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

> Now that the Census has been taken, can the Censors
> give us the current numerical breakdown between the
> patrician and the plebeian citizens.

Plebeian 719
Patrician 353

Socii not included.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:

>
> Attention Please:
> The young man who requested assistance with a paper on Rome wrote
> back with more details (see below).

Thank you Servius Equitius, I shall write to him.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
My Curule Aedile website is http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~gawne/ca.html

Salve Gaius Cornelius,

> I'd like to introduce myself, although I've been following this group
> and posting occasional replies for the last two weeks as Gaius.

Welcome! It's been good to have you here, and I look forward to seeing
more from you.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
My Curule Aedile website is http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~gawne/ca.html

Salvete Omnes,
what a wonderful fight ... 3 of our best citizens, Salix Astur,
Equitius Marinus and Moravia Aventina, will run for the most
important Office.
They're my friends: Salix Astur was the first not-italic citizens I
knew, Equitius Marinus is my colleaugue in the staff of Quintilianus
and as Curule Aedile, Moravia Aventina worked and talked with me for
manu times ....
It will very hard to choose ... I support their candidacies ... who
will be the best Consul?

Good luck to ecah of you, Amici!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Candidate as Tribune


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:

> Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, Romani cives.
>
> I come to you to announce my candidacy for the consulship.
>
> In the two and half years since I joined Nova Roma I have had many
> excellent experiences. I took part in building my home province,
> Hispania, from its very beginning. I have worked in the Academia
> Thules. I was elected tribunus plebis and presented to the
> Comitia the first set of successful legislative proposals authored

by

> a tribune. This year I was elected praetor and have performed my
> duties to the best of my abilities, trying to act with diligence,
> energy, and prudence.
>
> Here in Nova Roma I have made many new friends, I have taken part

in

> many interesting debates, and I have had more than my fair share

of

> fun :-).
>
> But all these good experiences are not yet enough for me. I don't
> know if you have ever felt in the same way, but when I stumbled

upon

> the Nova Roma web site, many expectations rose in my mind. A place
> where one could live like a Roman, pray like a Roman, talk like a
> Roman. A place where one could become a true Roman of old. That
> sounded like something to strive for. And it still does.
>
> The truth is that Nova Roma has not yet fulfilled its promise,
> has not yet attained its destiny. We still have a long way to go,

and

> we need to know where we are going.
>
> We must embrace the traditions, the Mos Maiorum, of our Roman
> forebearers, bringing our institutions, laws, and practices ever
> closer to the Rome which inspires and teaches us.
>
> We must move from being primarily an internet society to a

republic

> whose citizens meet face-to-face in our provinces and in larger
> events around the world to strengthen and deepen our commonalities

as

> Romans.
>
> We must put aside old quarrels and rise above factions to join
> together with a renewed enthusiasm, pursuing a clearer vision of

the

> objectives we seek to attain. It is for these reasons that I

stand

> for the consulship.
>
> In the following days I shall discuss with you the concrete

policies

> I advocate to promote this renewal.
>
> But let me say this from the very beginning: I cannot achieve

these

> ideals alone; no consul can. I seek your ideas, your comments,

your

> criticisms, your enthusiasms, your vision of what Nova Roma can

be.

> This campaign must be a dialogue on Nova Roma's future, for no

leader

> in a republic can succeed without the support and counsel of the
> people.
>
> Quirites, this is a challenge for all of us. If we unite our

wills,

> if we make a common effort, we might be rewarded with a Nova Roma
> that is closer to the ideal each of us has. I firmly believe that

it

> is something worth the effort.
>
> May the Immortals guide us rightly as They did of old.
>
> Cn. Salix Astur
> _____________________________________________
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Lucius Equitius Quiritibus SPD

I want to add my endorsements to those of my friends and gensmates for those
candidates who have declared themselves. I can especially recommend C Iulius
Scaurus for Curule Aedile and D Moravia Aventina for Consul as I have worked
with them personally.

May the Gods continue to bless Nova Roma with such fine Quirites.
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:39:14 -0000
From: "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia" <arnamentia_aurelia@...>
Subject: Re: Declaration of Candidacy for the Office of Consul 2757

Salve Diana!

What fantastic news - It will be my pleasure to support you in this
process!

Arnamentia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"

This is wonderful news! You've done extremely well in everything I
and others have thrown at you; I'm confident you'll be an outstanding
quaestor (quaestrix??)

Bonam Fortunam, my dear!
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna

________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:56:29 -0000
From: "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@...>
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Aedilis Curulis

Salvete omnes

I only can say that of the many citizens that tries to make greater
this community, G. Iulius Scaurus can only deserve the best wishes
and support to be Aedilis Curulis.

He is willing to offer help as much as we are willing to ask so. And
always he probed to be the best advisor, the wiser researcher and a
man that has a quite good balanced head upon his shoulders.

Citizens, no one shall regret to vote for G. Iulius Scaurus. He is
one of the man I most respect in Nova Roma, and I am not the only
one to believe so.

Citizens, vote G. Iulius Scaurus for Aedilis Curulis. You'll find an
excellent office next year with him on it. :-)

vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
TRIBVNVS·PLEBIS


________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:34:56 -0000
From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Aedilis Curulis

Salvete omnes,

Please allow me to add my support for G. Iulius Scaurus for his bid
to be Aedilis Curilis...
As Didius indicates, whose shoes could better fill this office? You
can be sure that G. Iulius Scaurus has my enthusiastic support for
Aedilis Curulis.

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:09:42 -0500
From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
Subject: All these Candidates!

Salvete Quirites,

I've been away from home for a few days, and return to find a flurry
of announcements. What joyful news to see my Aedilean colleague
Faustus running for Tribune, the beautiful and talented Arnamentia
Moravia Aurelia running for Quaestor along with Marcus Bianchus
Antonius and my net.friend Caius Curius Saturninus, and the
incomparably good fortune of seeing Gaius Iulius Scaurus stepping
forward to offer himself for the Curule Aediliship. I can not think
of anyone in Nova Roma I'd rather turn the Curule Aedile's offices
over to than Scaurus, who I am confident will be a wonderful Curule
Aedile and whom I hope will accept such help as I may offer him in
that office, given my own 14 months in it.

And finally, I see Diana has made the decision to place herself into
candidacy for Consul. There is nothing I could possibly say that
would speak louder than her own record as Tribuna this past year
to highlight her qualifications.
--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile

Valete

Salvete Maior et Omnes,
your call seems to work, Amice!
Now we have other candidacies.

Only I read in the official list at
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2756/index.html that Illustrus
Quintus Fabius Maximus is running for the Office of Censor. Where is
his declaration of candidacy?

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Arminius Maior"
<marminius@y...> wrote:

> Salvete, Quirites
>
>
> Well, the list of candidates is growing. Below, there are the
> candidates that i was able to find in the main list:
>
> *** Comitia Centuriata
> CENSOR, 1 position open, (none)
> CONSUL, 2 positions,
> - Diana Moravia Aventina, message 16521
> PRAETOR, 2 positions,
> - Marcus Arminius Maior, message 16415
> - Decimus Iunius Silanus, message 16557
>
> *** Comitia Populi Tributa
> AEDILIS CURULIS, 2 positions
> - Gaius Iulius Scaurus, message 16528
> QUAESTOR, 8 positions
> - Gaius Curius Saturninus, message 16432
> - Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia, message 16513
> - Marcus Bianchius Antonius, message 16516
> - Lívia Cornelia Hibernia, message 16534
>
> CURATOR ARANEUM, 1 position
> (none)
> CURATOR DIFFERUM, 1 position
> (none)
> ROGATOR, 4 positions
> - Aulus Apollonius Cordus, message 16397
>
> *** Comitia Plebis Tributa
> TRIBUNUS PLEBIS, 5 positions
> - Lucius Quintius Constantinus, message 16304
> - Gaius Modius Athanasius, message 16338
> - Julilla Sempronia Magna, message 16363
> - Franciscus Apulus Caesar, message 16407
> - Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, message 16413
> - Lucius Arminius Faustus, message 16503
> AEDILIS PLEBEIUS, 2 positions
> (none)
>
>
> Nova Roma still needs 14 candidates:
> 1 candidate for Censor
> 1 candidate for Consul
> 1 candidate for Aedilis Curule
> 2 candidates for Aedilis Plebeius
> 4 candidates for Quaestor
> 1 candidate for Curator Araneum
> 1 candidate for Curator Differum
> 3 candidates for Rogator
>
>
>
> Vale
> Marcus Arminius Maior

Hasta? What hasta? (Though I have a VERY sharp Short Sword....) Knew you were joking, my friend! Actually, got a good belly laugh out of it - so did my room-mates! By the by, I also sent Cordus a 'wish you well on your campaign note' - good guy, he is. As usual, this Equitius & you Galerii are on the same page....!

Your Cousin (once removed),
Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 8:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Patrician, Plebian, Freedman, Slave.


Ah, Mercurius.  We know that you are a great practitioner of animal husbandry.  Just don't let the pontiffs catch you at it as they frown on that sort of activity.  ROTFLOL.<BR>
<BR>
Flavi Galeri<BR>
<BR>
[Joke, joke.  Get away from me with that hasta.]<BR>

"Additionally, I give you my word that if elected to the Curule
Aediliship in 2756 I will not run for any magistracy for 2757,
following the example of our forebearers from Roma Antiqua."
{Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, November 5, 2002}

"I place myself before you in candidacy for the Consulship of 2757 auc."
{Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, November 19, 2003}

Vote Marinus. A man of his word.

Marius Lucianus Silvanus

Yeah, probably. Lucky you! ha, ha
- SEM Troi.

-----Original Message-----
From: raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 8:51 AM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] OT, anyone?

<html><body>


<tt>
I see election time is around the corner...does this mean the urban cohorts and the vigiles will be on over-time?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
S  P  Q  R<BR>
<BR>
Fidelis Ad Mortem.<BR>
<BR>
Marcvs Flavivs Fides<BR>
Roman Citizen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
---------------------------------<BR>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR>
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:

> Decimus Iunius Silanus Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Today I would like to declare my intention to campaign
> for the office of praetor thus continuing my service
> to Nova Roma. As a consequence I will outline my
> credentials and past service to our republic and my
> qualifications for this most illustrious of offices.
>
> Perhaps my responsibilities most pertinent to the
> office of praetor have been to serve as elected
> quaestor and scribe to Praetor Decius Iunius
> Palladius. My experience earned this year, assisting
> with list moderation and other praetorian duties have
> equipped me with knowledge and experience to continue
> the excellent efforts shown by this years elected
> Praetors, particularly with regards to list
> moderation.

Ave Decime Iuni Silane!


I can think of no one better suited to hold the office of Praetor
than you. You have consistently and diligently given excellent
service to Nova Roma in all the offices you hold. You have been
invaluable to me as my quaestor and scriba this year and know the
duties of the office of praetor inside and out--having performed most
of them already. You will make an excellent praetor!!


Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetor

Naw.
Not gonna kill my cousin (once removed) in Gens Galeria either (maybe wound him a little, for dissing a Patrician)....
Have no fear - the sheep are safe, from me at least (not so sure about those Galerii....a little to fast to deny, eh?).

-SEM Troi.

From: raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 8:52 AM

Alrighty...est? 
ET TV BEASTARI?

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
Ah, Mercurius.  We know that you are a great practitioner of animal husbandry.  Just don't let the pontiffs catch you at it as they frown on that sort of activity.  ROTFLOL.
Flavi Galeri
[Joke, joke.  Get away from me with that hasta.]


S  P  Q  R
Fidelis Ad Mortem.
Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Pollentia: A Roman City of the Island of Mallorca,
Spain":

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~classics/PollentiaNet/PollentiaNet.html

This, site, maintained by the William L. Bryant Foundation and
Dartmouth College, provides a splendid review of the excavations of
the city established by Q. Caecilius Metellus Balearicus in ca. 122 BCE.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Marius Lucianus Silvanus quoted me:

> "Additionally, I give you my word that if elected to the Curule
> Aediliship in 2756 I will not run for any magistracy for 2757,
> following the example of our forebearers from Roma Antiqua."
> {Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, November 5, 2002}
>
> "I place myself before you in candidacy for the Consulship of 2757 auc."
> {Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, November 19, 2003}

I'm glad you asked. I figured somebody would.

Yes, I wrote those words. Yes, I am a candidate for Consul.

For much of the past month, I've been in discussions with people who
want me to run for Consul. Back last summer, at Roman Days, I spoke
with Diana Moravia Aventina about running for office, and she
encouraged me to run this year, pointing out that nobody else waited
out a year.

In the fullness of time, and after much meditation on the issues
in question, I decided that I should give the people who want to
vote for me the opportunity to do so. I have looked forward for
many months to the prospect of a year away from the political
hurly-burly of Nova Roma, and should the other two Consular
candidates draw more votes than me, I will be happy to take my
governorship and spend next year tending only to Mediatlantica.

If you want to know whether or not I am trustworthy, ask the people
I've worked with since I came to Nova Roma. I do take my given
word very seriously. You may conclude that I consider the need
for my service as Consul to be such a compelling need that I will
forego a year of quiet, a year away from political wrangling, and
further, that I will step forward when Nova Roma asks for me,
even though it costs me dearly.

On a more personal note, you've been away for a long time
Marius Lucianus. Why didn't you ever reply to the e-mails I
sent you during the Census, or those the Censors sent to you?
You should contact the Censors to have your status changed
from Socius back to Citizen. I'd do it myself, but now that
the Census is over you have to petition to have your citizenship
reinstated.

Further, Marius Lucianus, I have to wonder if you voted last year?
Because if you had, you would have been counted as Censi in the
Census, wouldn't you? So if you have not voted in over a year, and
you have not posted to the main list for as far back as I can search
the Yahoo records, I have to wonder what your motivation is right now.
Are you Marius Lucianus Silvanus, once proud patrician paterfamilias
of gens Luciana, or are you a mouthpiece for some sniveling coward?
You can not reply to repeated attempts at communication from your
provincial governor, nor bestir yourself to participate here in Nova
Roma for a very long time, yet you can now come forth to question
me. While you have every right to question me about anything, I
now question you about your identity, your motivations, and your
citizenship. You post from a Yahoo account created just today,
Socius. I think you either have something to hide, or that
someone has borrowed your name and is using it fraudulently.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Salve Gnae Equiti,

> Are you Marius Lucianus Silvanus, once proud patrician paterfamilias
> of gens Luciana, or are you a mouthpiece for some sniveling coward?

Absolutely, this person - whoever he is - is a mouthpiece for a
coward.

The person using this name subscribed to the mailing list at 20.15
Eastern today, and posted his message at 20.38. Before 20.15 Eastern
he was not a subscriber at all - and going back through the logs, no
person using that address has been a main list subscriber at any time
since the list began last year -- except since 20.15 tonight.

There has never been a "Silvanus" on the NovaRoma-Announce list either.

I've also searched for the other email address of that citizen, the
one he initially registered with. That address does not appear
within the subscription logs for either group.

Are we to believe that someone subscribed to the list for the first
time, and within minutes was able to locate something potentially
embarrassing to a candidate from a year ago?

So, yes - we can say with certainty that this person is either a
sniveling coward, afraid to show his true name, or a "client" of
a sniveling coward.

I will continue to investigate with the intent of pursuing a "Nota"
against the person responsible for the impersonation, if any.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Salve!

As I was also glad to see your announcement!
I support your candidacy and ask all of my supporters
to do the same.

I look forward to the opportunity to work with you too.

Vale,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia"
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Livia Cornelia-
>
> I am thrilled to see your announcement. It will be a pleasure to
> work with you!
>
> Arnamentia Moravia
>
>
>

Salve Gaius!

Welcome to Nova Roma and especially welcome to Gens Cornelia!

You have joined our res publica at a very exciting time: Election
Time! Walk about the Forum (the main list), get to know everyone,
listen in on all the political wheeling and dealing and then vote!

(not that I would want to influence your vote, but there a certain
Cornelia who is running for Quaestor who could use your vote).

We always have need of translators. Check it out on the web site. I'm
sure that your assistance would be welcome.

In case you have not already found out, there is a Gens Cornelia
mailing list on Yahoo! also.

Again welcome!

Livia Cornelia Hibernia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...>
wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I'd like to introduce myself, although I've been following this

group

> and posting occasional replies for the last two weeks as Gaius.
> My Gens confirmation has arrived, I'm now part of the Gens Cornelia

with

> the name of Gaius Cornelius Severus.
> I live in Britannia and work in Deva near the Legionary camp.I'm a
> trainer, teaching railway signalling and safety subjects.
> Outside work I speak (and translate) reasonably good French,

Spanish and

> some bits of German and Russian (as well as Latin).I'm a Linux
> enthusiast, I've written articles on Linux for UK magazines and
> tutorials for various web sites.
> I read everythimg.
> I'd like to thank all who replied to my emails, it's a good group to
> belong to. If I can offer any assistance to other group members,

I'd be

> happy to do so.
> I'm delighted to be a citizen of Nova Roma, may Fortuna and the

Divine

> Julius Caesar smile in your direction,
>
> avete,
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus

Salve Romans

I would like to state publicly that having served Gnaeus Equitius Marinus this year as his Quaestor ( I wish I had been able to do more for him) and having met him on a number of occasions, that he is a man of integrity and is dedicated to the success of Nova Roma. He and I both applied for the Governorship of Mediatlantica province and when he was appointed ( to my disappointment) he hit the ground running and has not let up yet.

He has proved to be an energetic, enthusiastic, creative and busy governor!

Nova Roma is lucky to have his as a candidate for Consul!

He has my complete support for Consul!


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor 2756


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gaius Cornelius,

Welcome to Nova Roma.

> I live in Britannia and work in Deva near the
> Legionary camp.

If you have not already done so, you should subscribe
to our regional list at
BritanniaProvincia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Here you
will find out more information on activities and
citizens within our provincia.

We are planning to have a provincial gathering in the
Spring and Deva has already been mentioned as a
possible venue.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require
further advice or assistance pertaining to Nova Roma.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae



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Salve,

Thank you amice. Your endorsement means the most to me
of all things. I shall endeavour to live up to your
expectations :-)

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

> Ave Decime Iuni Silane!
>
>
> I can think of no one better suited to hold the
> office of Praetor
> than you. You have consistently and diligently given
> excellent
> service to Nova Roma in all the offices you hold.
> You have been
> invaluable to me as my quaestor and scriba this year
> and know the
> duties of the office of praetor inside and
> out--having performed most
> of them already. You will make an excellent
> praetor!!
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
> Praetor
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Salve !

I thank you for believing that I could be a good Plebeian Aedile; however, I must insist on the followings points:

-My English is not good enough, so I can't to be really effective in any Nova-Roma high public office.

-I do not have any talent of organizer concerning plays or festivities.

-I would rather wish to work with the development of the Province of Gallia, which is unfortunately temporarily stopped.

Please, don't send to me 50 mails by day...

Vale !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis

Diana Moravia Aventina <Diana@...> wrote:
Salvete citizens!

The following citizens qualify for the position of Plebeian Aedile and are hereby asked to serve
Rome! Perfect English is not at all necessary and there would be people on hand to help tidy up the
English in your emails if you need it!

At the moment we have 0 candidates for Plebeian Aedile!! We need two! The job is a responsible one
of great pride but you would not have to be constantly on duty like a Tribune or a Praetor, you
wouldn't need to be good with finances like a Quastor, you wouldn't need to be a computer whiz like
the Curator Araneum or answer 50 emails per day like a Consul :-) But you would have to organize
our Ludi a few times per year and the job is a fun one!!! Our current Plebeian Aedile Lucius
Arminius Faustus could give you a beeter job descitption than I can since he has performed his
durites wonderfully as Plebeian Aedile of 2756! His email address is lafaustus@...

So come on people!! If you want me to stop seidning you 10 emails per day as reminders, you'll just
have to volunteer to be a candidate for plebeian Aedile! At this point, you'd be a guaranteed winner
:-)))

Marianus Adrianus Sarus
Gaius Adrianus Sergius
Iulius Aemilius Felsinus
Decimus Aeneas Apollonius Seneciamus
Gnaeus Aeneas Appollonius Indicus
Decimus Antoninius Aquilius
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Fabiana Arminia Metella
Gnaeus Arminius Saturninus
Quintus Arminius Hyacinthus
Sextus Arminius Remus
Appius Arminius Claudianus
Philippus Arminius Remus
Kaeso Arminius Cato
Lucius Arminius Cotta
Aulus Arminius Cotta
Tiberius Arminius Hyacinthus
Hadrianus Arminius Hyacinthus
Publius Arminius Maior
Spurius Arminius Carus
Titus Arminius Volusius
Servius Arminius Crispinus
Titus Arminius Genialis
Lucius Arminius Metellus
Secundus Avisius Apollinarius
Eudocia Bianchia Catilina
Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
Octavia Bianchia Crispiana
Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Quintus Bianchius Rufinus
Marcus Calidius Gracchus
Tiberius Calpurnius Rex
Appia Claudia Labieni
Manius Constantinus Serapio
Emilia Curia Finnica
Marcus Darius Firmitus
Aula Decia Lapella
Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius
Cintia Durmia Domna
Ennia Durmia Gemina
Marcus Durmius Sisena
Quintus Fabricius Varus |
Apicius Faunius Comissator
Servius Fidelius Longinus
Helena Galeria Aureliana
Gaius Galerius Peregrinator
Laecus Galerius Felix
Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Quintus Galerius Britannicus
Lucius Gellius Severus
Gaius Geminius Germanus
Aulus Hirtius Helveticus
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonicus
Servius Labienus Cicero
Honoria Lania Drusilla
Gaius Lanius Falco
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Titus Licinius Crassus
Caius Livius Varus Germanicus
Flavia Lucilla Merula
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
Marcus Marcius Rex
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Gaius Maxentius Silvanus
Drusus Maxentius Silvanus
Lucilla Meridia
Rufus Metellus Ahenobarbus
Lucius Metellus Berkeliensis
Primus Minicius Octavianus
Marcus Minicius Rufus
Lucius Minicius Laietanus
Antonius Minicius Ferrarius
Tiberius Minicius Catulus
Ianus Minicius Sparsus
Titus Minicius Marianus
Octavia Nemo
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Gnaeus Porsennius Kaeso
Lucius Porticus Brutus
Quintus Postumius Albinus Maius
Placidia Prisca
Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili
Marcus Quintius Andronicus
Marcus Quintius Clavus
Carolus Rufius Iovinus
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Claudius Salix Davianus
Lucius Salix Cicero
Marcus Salix Saverius
Gnaeus Salix Galaicus
Gnaeus Salix Astur
Quintus Salix Cantaber
Gaius Scipiadus Scipio Gamba
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Quintus Sertorius
Petrus Silvius Naso
Aelius Solaris Marullinus
Lucius Suetonius Nerva
Laurenicus Tarquitius Decimus Magus
Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
Iacobus Theodosius
Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus
Primia Titinia Floriana
Violentilla Titinia Saltatrix
Iulius Titinius Antonius
Caius Titinius Varus
Gaius Ursus Casca
Lucia Valeria Secunda Ianuaria
Titus Varrus Stilicho
Manius Villius Limitanus
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Marcus Vitellius Ligus

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis and presiding magistrate of the Plebeian Magisterial Election



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes.

I do join those who praise the organizational skills of Gn. Salix Astur and his reliability. He has contributed so many in the building of Hispania and its institutions, in the growth of the Thules Academy, in promoting meetings between all the Hispanici and in make an accurate, rational and efficient approach to our Roman heritage that is impossible to enumerate his achievements and goals in a so relative short term.

We have also worked together some times and he proves me to be a very good listener, a fine intelligent man and a quite fun man too :-)

He is also quite known for a very singular virtue; to join those who can share with him and Nova Roma the best of each one, so he will get the best of all citizens to make a stronger Nova Roma. His leadirship is the most valuable card to present us to the world.

And a last point, Lanius Paulinus; he also can speak some ancient celtic languages. One language more. ;-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
TRIBVNVS·PLEBIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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portiere_fisica wrote:
| ciao, piccolissima domanda: come mai la maggior parte
| delle pagine del sito sono in inglese,tedesco, portoghese,
| mentre viene trascurata la lingua che + delle altre deriva
| dal latino : l'italiano! I nostri antichi antenati si
| rivolterebbero nelle loro tombe se sapessero che i loro
| discendenti preferiscono parlare la lingua dei barbari
| britanni! Ave

Salvete, quirites.

I just received the above mail to the webmaster alias. I think it's
about how we ought to present the information in italian. I get the
feeling it's neither very subtle nor humble about the request, as well.
But! I have no real clue, as I don't speak italian. So, anyone up to
talking to the gentleman/lady in question? Feel free to contact him/her at:

portineria.fisica@...
portineria DOT fisica AT polimi DOT it

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Salvete omnes,

This is really great news for Nova Roma: we have now two most
excellent candidates for consuls!

Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus are very
personifications of Roman Virtues. They both have solid knowledge
about the Nova Roman and old Roman history as well as laws. Both of
these fine gentlemen are warm but still strong characters, determined
and stable. They both represent the Mos Maiorum in finest way.

They both have served our nation in various capacities before and
have shown themselves to be honourable and hard working.

Citizens, I recommend you to vote for these candidates because they
have the skills, dedication and character to steer our respoublica
into bright future!

Valete,

>Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:39:48 -0000
> From: "Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@...>
>Subject: Consular Candidacy Announcement
>
>Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>Salvete, Romani cives.
>
>I come to you to announce my candidacy for the consulship.


>Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:45:46 -0500
> From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
>Subject: Announcement of Consular Candidacy
>
>Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dixit:
>
>I place myself before you in candidacy for the Consulship of 2757 auc.

--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Salve Tiberius Galerius, et salvete omnes,

Tiberius Galerius writes:

> I would like to state publicly that having served
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus this year as his Quaestor
> ( I wish I had been able to do more for him) and
> having met him on a number of occasions, that he is
> a man of integrity and is dedicated to the success
> of Nova Roma.

Thank you Tiberius. You have honored me with your
faithful service as Quaestor, and I deeply appreciate
this endoresement.

-- Marinus

SEM Troi...very android sounding, isn't it? Unlike mine...MF Fides sounds like an export company or a rare African foot disorder caused by the constant lingering in pig slop.
(Don't ask, things pop into my head and I just roll with it. No pun intended.)

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:
Yeah, probably. Lucky you! ha, ha
- SEM Troi.

-----Original Message-----
From: raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 8:51 AM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] OT, anyone?

<html><body>


<tt>
I see election time is around the corner...does this mean the urban cohorts and the vigiles will be on over-time?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
S P Q R<BR>
<BR>
Fidelis Ad Mortem.<BR>
<BR>
Marcvs Flavivs Fides<BR>
Roman Citizen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> This is really great news for Nova Roma: we have now two most
> excellent candidates for consuls!

Three. All three are very well qualified, intelligent, and honest.
This will be a tough decision.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Salvete omnes,

I saw my name on the list and I'd like you to know that I'm available.
Please, add my name to the candidates list. Having taken part to
organizing ludis before, I know that it can be lots of fun!

Valete bene,
Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salvete citizens!
>
> The following citizens qualify for the position of Plebeian Aedile

and are hereby asked to serve

> Rome!

...

Salve Pius, Amice,
yes, the mail is a critic about the languages used in the main
website of Nova Roma. This gentleman think that the ancient
romans "shouldn't be happy" to know that the language son of the
latin (italian) is not preferred to the "barbaric languages".
Don't worry, I'll answer him in italian and in cc to you (in english
of course ;-).

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Propraetor Italiae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> portiere_fisica wrote:
> | ciao, piccolissima domanda: come mai la maggior parte
> | delle pagine del sito sono in inglese,tedesco, portoghese,
> | mentre viene trascurata la lingua che + delle altre deriva
> | dal latino : l'italiano! I nostri antichi antenati si
> | rivolterebbero nelle loro tombe se sapessero che i loro
> | discendenti preferiscono parlare la lingua dei barbari
> | britanni! Ave
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I just received the above mail to the webmaster alias. I think it's
> about how we ought to present the information in italian. I get the
> feeling it's neither very subtle nor humble about the request, as
well.
> But! I have no real clue, as I don't speak italian. So, anyone up
to
> talking to the gentleman/lady in question? Feel free to contact
him/her at:
>
> portineria.fisica@p...
> portineria DOT fisica AT polimi DOT it
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/vLOQAGtgaSonkUoRAvlgAJ93TBgAnbxp3d40UHwDMkjSM8qYtACeMToN
> wtnIf1NNdREMNjfcQ0OM31o=
> =sl4U
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Salve Emilia,
congratualtions, I'm very happy to see your name in the list of
candidates.
You're a very skilled citizen and a nice person in the daily life.
I'm very happy to have met you in Bologna during the last summer and
I wish you good luck for this election.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Candidate as Tribune

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "emiliafinnlund4" <e.curia@w...>
wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I saw my name on the list and I'd like you to know that I'm

available.

> Please, add my name to the candidates list. Having taken part to
> organizing ludis before, I know that it can be lots of fun!
>
> Valete bene,
> Emilia Curia Finnica
> Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> <diana@p...> wrote:
> > Salvete citizens!
> >
> > The following citizens qualify for the position of Plebeian

Aedile

> and are hereby asked to serve
> > Rome!
> ...

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
wrote:

>
>
> > Now that the Census has been taken, can the
> Censors
> > give us the current numerical breakdown between
> the
> > patrician and the plebeian citizens.
>
> Plebeian 719
> Patrician 353
>
> Socii not included.
>
>

Salve Marcus Octavius Germanicus et omnes

My understanding based on my reading of the Lex
Fabia de Censo is that those classified as Socii are
no longer considered citizens for any pratical purpose
and remains so until they petition the censors for
re-entry to citizenship.

Based on the numbers given in reply to my
question, if my calculations are correct, the
plebeians constitute 67.1% of the population and the
patricians 32.9%.

In my opinion, that means this makes the clause of
the Constitution providing that the Tribunes shall
call the Comitia Populi Tributa to order whenever more
than 10% of the citizenry are patricians are
operational.

It seems to me that this means that the out-going
Tribunes are responsible now not only for holding the
elections for Tribunes and Plebeian Aediles, but also
the elections for Quaestors and Curule Aediles.

Anyone else like to discuss this matter?


Lucius Quintius Constantius


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Ave

As it was maybe not wise to send an email in Italian to the webmaster of
a mostly non Italian community, it was likewise not very wise, not to
mention polite, for someone in a somewhat "public" position to make
negative and sarcastic comments ("it's neither very subtle nor humble
about the request") about the content of the email without even having a
clue about what is stated inside (it could have very well been the most
polite of the emails, no?), nor to send it to the whole international
mailing list when it would have been more appropriate to maybe forward
it to one of the 100 Italian active citizens (maybe one of the Italian
officers) for a translation who I'm sure would have been glad to help,
rather than see one of their fellows brought to the public like that.

Said that, I'm going to deliver you personally a translation of the
post.

Vale Bene

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

----
http://village.flashnet.it/~ua01823/

"INTPs are about 1% of the general population, making this one of the
rarest of types"... bad for us, but probably good for the world! :)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Guido Costantini wrote:
| Said that, I'm going to deliver you personally a translation
| of the post.

Salve, Domiti Constantine Fusce.

Thank you kindly for your offer, but I believe Franciscus Apulus Caesar
is handling the issue.

I'm sorry if you felt I was talking down to the gentleman in question,
but I felt a bit offended at his tone and used "wit" instead of harsh
language in expressing that. I didn't feel I was being too rude in doing
so, but if I was, I apologize for the rudeness.

As for posting it to the mainlist, that's what I have been doing for my
term in office with mails in languages I'm not fluent in or asking
questions I'm not qualified to answer. The mails are generally directed
to Nova Roma as a whole from an outsider, so there's no reason for me to
keep them secret/private. Trying to find an interpreter would probably
impede the process unduly, so simply asking anyone with time to spare to
look into the issue seems, to me, the most expedient manner of handling
things.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari

+--------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Phone: +46 90 98300 | E-mail: c99kfm@... |
| +46 70 3972769 | from@... |
+--------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Address: Kristoffer From | URL: http://thule.darkeye.net/from |
| Furuvägen 23 +------------------------------------+
| 918 31 Sävar | ICQ: Titus Octavius Pius |
| SWEDEN | UIN 5589990 |
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F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. Cornelius Severus. Salve.

Welcome to the Republic of Nova Roma, citizen. You join us at an auspicious time as the socii, plebians, and patricians begin the campaign to elect new magistrates for the upcoming year. Make sure you get your voting code from the Censors as soon as you can. During this time, you will see many posts from, to, and about the candidates. The political arena in NR is one of the most exciting ways to learn about who we are, what we believe in, and how we would like our Republic to grow both virtually and in the physical world.
If I or any other citizen or magistrate can help you navigate through the shoals of the Republic, please don't hesitate to ask us on the mainlist or privately.
May the gods grant you all that is appropriate, fortunate, happy, and worthy. Vale.

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Edictum Consulare CFQ XII de Comitiorum Centuriatorum Convocatione

As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Centuriata is hereby
convened to approve the laws listed in the Agenda below.

Contio shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Friday the 14th of November

Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Wednesday the 19th of November

Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Monday 24th of November

===========================
AGENDA Comitia Centuriata

1. Lex Fabia Centuriata
2. LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete Quirites!

This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia
Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow Impubes
to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and
clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.

************************

LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of age
greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.

II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.

III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to read:

"a. Citizenship

1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.

2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children or
legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are not
sui iuris.

3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, regardless
of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual
orientation.

4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris may
be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such an
applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant
macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the Censors
through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.

5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that shall
be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have their
Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal
guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by notification
of the censors or by public statement before three or more witnesses."

IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the Constitution:
"c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7 shall
be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other rights
such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris. Those
rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the behalf
of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or
paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the rights
of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."

V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various
offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other laws,
but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed offices.
However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.

VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as
Impuberes (sing. impubes).

VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Edictum Consulare CFQ XIII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione


As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Populi Tributa is hereby
convened to approve the laws listed under the Agenda.

Contio shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Friday the 14th of November

Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Wednesday the 19th of November

Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Monday 24th of November

===========================
AGENDA Comitia Populi Tributa

1. Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Flavi Galeri to his cousin (several times removed) Equiti Mercuri.

O.K. so the sheep may be safe from you, cousin, but what about the goats? Ha, ha. Keep away from me with that sword. Never can find my scutum when I really need it. The men of the Galeri do not indulge in relations with beasts. O.K. there was that time that I 'dated' the Dacian woman but she held me at knifepoint and I didn't enjoy at all...well maybe some... Maybe we shouldn't pursue this subject any longer. Vale.

Salvete Quirites!

We have seen repeated run off elections. I decided to try to do
something about this in the "Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum
Centuriatorum", the Populus approved of this proposal and now I ask
the Populus to do he same thing for the Comitia Populi Tributa.

When I reformed the Comitia Centuriata I also changed it into a more
historical Comitia. With this law I also will try to change the
Comitia Populi Tributa to become more historical and closer to Mos
Maiorum.

********************

LEX FABIA DE RATIONE COMITIORUM POPULI TRIBUTORUM

I. All previous laws relating to the Comitia Populi Tributa are
hereby rescinded as they apply to the election of magistrates and the
voting of leges by the Comitia Populi Tributa. This Lex Fabia de
Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum is hereby enacted to define the
procedures by which the Comitia Populi shall conduct the business of
electing magistrates, voting on leges, and voting to convict or
acquit citizens brought to trial before the Comitia Populi Tributa.

II. Calling the Comitia to Order.
Either a Consul or Praetor may, as described in the Constitution,
call the Comitia to order, to hold a vote on a lex or leges, to hold
an election, or to conduct a trial. The magistrate who calls the
Comitia to order shall be referred to herein as the presiding
magistrate.
A. This shall be done by making a public announcement announcing the
call in those public fora which shall have been designated for such
purpose, in which must be included:
1. The names of candidates for office and the office for which they
are running (when the Comitia is being called for an election);
2. Date of Citizenship of each candidate;
3. The full text of any leges which are being voted on (when the
Comitia is being called to legislate);
4. The dates when the members of the Comitia shall begin and finish voting;
5. Any special instructions that pertain to the mechanics of the vote, if any;
6. In the case of a trial, the name of the accused, and the charges
and specifications of which they are accused.
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking
all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold
whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist
in such efforts as to the best of their ability.

III. Timing of the vote.
A. The edictum containing the call to vote must be issued at least
120 hours (5 days) prior to the start of the vote. This period shall
be known as the Contio, and shall be used for formal discussion of
the issues and/or candidates before the People for vote.
1. In the event that, in an election for a magisterial office, there
are not sufficient candidates elected to fill all vacancies in that
office, the presiding magistrate may call for a follow-up election
among those same candidates who failed to obtain that office in the
previous election. For these follow-up elections, the 120-hour
(5-day) requirement for the length of the Contio (official discussion
period) shall be shortened to 24 hours.
B. During the Contio, the following conditions shall apply:
1. Those constitutionally empowered to do so may exercise their
powers of intercessio or nuntiatio.
a. Intercessio may be exercised against either the entire election or
vote, or against one or more individual items on the ballot. If there
are any items on the ballot that have not been subjected to
intercessio, voting on them shall proceed normally. The removal of an
item from the ballot due to intercessio shall not prevent that item
from being placed upon the ballot for a different vote at a later
time.
b. The exercise of nuntiatio shall extend the Contio, postponing the
start and end dates of the voting period by 24 hours, during which
time nuntiatio may again be exercised.
c. Should the exercise of nuntatio cause the voting period to move
such that it conflicts with calendrical restrictions as defined by
the Collegium Pontificum, the presiding magistrate may change or
extend the dates of the vote and/or contio at his discretion.
2. A member of the Collegium Augurum shall be invited by the
presiding magistrate to seek favorable auspices for the conduct of
the vote, subject to those rules and regulations the Collegium
Augurum shall set forth by decreta, by selecting by lot the presidium
(the first tribe to be counted) and ruling whether or not the lot is
auspicious. The selection of Suburana shall always be regarded as
inauspicious. Should the presiding magistrate himself be a member of
the Collegium Augurum, he may take the auspices for the vote himself.
C. In the case of a vote on a lex, the period between the start and
end of the voting must last no less than 120 hours (5 days).
D. In the case of a vote on the guilt or innocence of an accused
citizen tried before the Comitia Populi Tributa, the period between
the start and end of the voting must last no less than 192 hours (8
days).
E. The ability to vote during the voting period may be impacted
and/or suspended due to calendrical issues as enacted by decreta of
the Collegium Pontificum.
F. The rogatores shall tally the vote and shall deliver the results
to the presiding magistrate within 48 hours of the close of the
voting period.
G. The presiding magistrate shall announce the results of the vote
within 24 hours of receiving the results from the rogatores, in at
least the same venues as the original announcement calling the vote
was published.

IV. Voting procedures.
A. The censors shall issue to each citizen a unique voter
identification code. This code shall be used to maintain anonymity in
the voting process, and to minimize the possibility of vote fraud. In
a timely fashion prior to the vote, the censors shall make available
to the rogatores a list of valid voter identification codes and the
centuries and/or tribes with which they are associated. The rogatores
shall not have access to the names of the citizens
associated with particular voter identification codes.
B. In consultation with the rogatores, the curator araneum shall make
available a cista; a secure web-based form to allow citizens to vote
directly through the official Nova Roma web site. This form shall
record the voter identification number and desired vote(s) of the
individual. The information thus collected will either be forwarded
to the rogatores as it is gathered, or at the end of the process, at
their discretion. Alternative methods of voting may be enacted by
other legislation as required.
C. In the case of a magisterial election, for each candidate, each
voter shall have the option to mark the candidate 'yes (vti rogas)'
or to leave the candidate unmarked; each ballot shall carry the
following direction: 'you may vote for as many candidates as you
wish, but you are advised to vote only for those candidates you
strongly support'. In the case of legislation, for each proposed law,
each voter shall have the option to vote 'yes (vti rogas)' or 'no
(antiqvo)'. In the case of a trial each voter shall have the option
to vote "absolvo" (absolve, innocent), or "condemno" (condemn,
guilty). Once cast, no vote may be altered, even with the correct
voter identification code. Should multiple votes be registered with
the same voter identification code, only the first one recorded shall
be used whentallying the vote.

V. Procedures for counting votes.
A. Votes shall be counted by tribes.
1. In the case of a magisterial election, the votes of each tribe
shall be calculated as follows. For each tribe, the candidates shall
be ordered by the number of 'yes' votes they receive from voters in
that tribe, the candidate who receives most 'yes' votes (ties being
decided by lot) being numbered 1, and so on in descending order. If
any candidates have no 'yes' votes from voters in that tribe, those
candidates shall not be listed. Any tribe containing no 'yes' votes
is 'void'.
2. In the case of a vote on a lex, each tribe shall vote in favor of
the lex if a majority of the votes received by members of the tribe
are in favor. Otherwise, the tribe shall be considered to have voted
against the proposed lex. Ties shall be decided by lot.
3. In the case of a vote on the guilt or innocence of a citizen tried
before the Comitia Populi Tributa, each tribe shall vote for
conviction if a majority of the votes received from members of that
tribe are marked condemno. Ties within a tribe will result in that
century voting to acquit.
4. The rogatores may decide how such decisions by lot shall be made
in a fair manner. In the case of trials, no decisions will be made by
lot.
B. The results of the tribes shall be counted sequentially, as follows.
1. The votes of all the tribes are compared, beginning with the
presidium (as selected under II.B.2) and rotating through the rest of
the tribes in their standard order.
2. The standard order of the tribes is: Suburana, Esquilina, Collina,
Palatina, Romilia, Scaptia, Stellatina, Teretina, Voturia, Sergia,
Tromentina, Oufetina, Fabia, Clustuminia, Lemonia, Horatia, Quirina,
Cornelia, Sabatina, Aemilia, Aniensis, Falerna, Camillia, Galeria,
Pomptina, Claudia, Velina,
Menenia, Papiria, Votinia, Poblilia, Pollia, Maecia, Pupinia,
Arnensis. So if, for exmple, the presidium is Pupinia, the next tribe
will be Arnensis, the next Suburana, and so on.
3. In the case of a magisterial election, results are calculated as follows.
a. As soon as 18 (or, if any tribes are 'void', more than half the
remaining tribes) tribes with the same number 1 preference have been
counted, that candidate is immediately elected. If no candidate is
the number 1 preference of a majority of the tribes, the candidate
who is the number 1 choice of fewest tribes (ties being decided by
lot) is eliminated. The election or elimination of a candidate ends
the first round.
b. If there are still vacancies to be filled, there is a second round
in each tribe which voted for the elected or eliminated candidate as
its first choice is given to its second choice candidate. If any
tribe has no second choice, it becomes 'void'. The tribes are now
compared again in the same order. As before, as soon as a majority of
tribes (not including 'void' tribes) have been counted voting for the
same candidate, that candidate is elected. If no candidate has a
majority, the candidate with the fewest tribes is eliminated. This
concludes the second round.
c. If there are still vacancies to be filled, each tribe held by the
candidate who was elected or eliminated in the previous round is
given to its second choice candidate or, if that candidate has been
elected or eliminated, to its third choice candidate. Any tribe
having no candidate as its next choice becomes 'void'. The tribes are
counted again, in the same order, and any candidate who now has a
majority of tribes (not including 'void' centuries) is elected; if no
candidate has a majority then the candidate with the fewest tribes is
eliminated, ending the third round.
d. This procedure is repeated until all the vacancies are filled.
e. If at the end of any round the number of candidates is equal to
the number of vacancies and all the candidates have the same number
of tribes, the tie is decided by lot, but rather than eliminate the
loser, the winner is elected, and the round ends.
2. In the case of a vote on a lex, the tribes shall be counted in
order, and as soon as a simple majority of the tribes casting votes
have voted in favour, the lex is passed; if a majority votes against,
the lex fails.
3. In the case of a trial, the tribes shall be counted in order, and
as soon as 18 tribes have voted to condemn, the reus is convicted; if
18 or more tribes vote to absolve, the reus is absolved.
4. In the case of a magisterial elections, a "majority" is defined as
"one half of the number of tribes (not including 'void' tribes) plus
one, fractions being rounded down".
5. In the case of a vote on a lex, a "simple majority" is hereby
defined as "one half of the number of tribes casting votes, plus one,
fractions being rounded down". A tribe in which no voters cast votes
shall not be counted toward this total.
6. In the case of a trial before the Comitia Populi Tributa, a
"majority" is defined as 18 or more tribes. Tribes in which no votes
are cast shall be counted as voting for acquittal.
C. Votes may be tallied by automated means should the rogatores
determine such is preferable to, and at
least as accurate as, a manual count.
D. Only the aggregate votes of the tribes shall be delivered to the
presiding magistrate; the votes of individual citizens shall be
secret.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete Quirites!

I presented another version of this lex during the summer, I draw it
back when I realised that I had missed a few things, especiually with
the CP for the Priests of Nova Roma.. Now I have corrected some of
the things that were critizised and a few more points. The main aim
of this lex is to see to it that those positions that didn't recieve
any Century points before would get it, now and that the relation
between positions would be fairer.

*******************

LEX FABIA CENTURIATA
Fabian law on Centuries

In accordance with paragraph II.E.2. of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the Lex Fabia Centuriata is hereby enacted to instruct the
Censors in the matter of the division of the voting citizenry of Nova
Roma into their respective centuries. This Lex Fabia replaces the
item II.B of the Lex Vedia Centuriata, enacted in 30 jul 2752. The
Lex Iunia Centuriata, approved in 22 dec 2752, is hereby rescinded.

Item II.B shall be read as follows:

II.B. The record of public service of each citizen shall be
quantified according to the following rules. (Except for points
awarded for term of citizenship, points shall be awarded
cumulatively, but shall not carry over from year to year)

Century points will be recalculated for all citizens. Points will be
awarded for all relevant events in each citizen's records based upon
the values established in this lex. The law will take effect on the
1st of January 2757 AUC

II.B.1. MAGISTRATI ORDINARII

If a magistrate only serves part of his term as a suffectus or
resigns his/her office while in office, Past Service points will be
awarded partially. This will be based on two-month increments
rounding down. Current Service points will be awarded for the period
remaining, also based on two-month increments rounding down.


Censor:
30 CP
15 CP (past service)

Consul:
30 CP
15 CP (past service)

Praetor and Tribunus Plebis:
20 CP
10 CP (past service)

Aedilis Curulis
14 CP
7 CP (past service)

Aedilis Plebis:
12 CP
6 CP (past service)

Quaestor and Vigintisexvir:
10 CP
5 CP (past service)

II.B.2. MAGISTRATI EXTRAORDINARII

Dictator:
30 CP
15 CP (past service)

Interrex:
6 CP
3 CP (past service)

II.B.3. APPARITORES

Citizens may hold more than one position in a magistrate's staff, but
get points for the highest one only.

Accensus:
5 CP
2 CP (past service)

Scriba:
5 CP
2 CP (past service)

II.B.4. PROVINCIAL POSITIONS

Citizens may hold more than one provincial position, but get points
for the highest one only. The ranks and titles of officials included
in each rank are defined by each governor. LEX VEDIA DE PROVINCIIS
(now a part of the Constitution) was "enacted to enable governors and
the Senate more flexibility in establishing and maintaining the
administrative institutions and mechanisms of provincia". The main
idea of this part of this law is also founded on flexibility. No
limit is set for each rank of officials, except for the first rank
officials.

Governor:
20 CP
(10 past services)

1st rank Official (one per provincia):
8 CP
4 CP (past service)

2nd rank Official:
6 CP
3 CP (past service)

3rd rank Official:
4 CP
2 CP (past service)

4th rank Official:
2 CP
1 CP (past service)

Provincial Sacerdos:
14 CP

II.B.5. SACERDOTES

Pontifex Maximus, Rex/Regina Sacrorum, Flamen Maior, Vestal Maxima:
30 CP

Pontifex, Flamen Minor, Augur, Vestal:
20 CP

Other Sacerdotes:
20 CP

II.B.6. OTHER POSITIONS

Senator:
20 CP

Pater Patriae:
10 CP

The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special
appointed positions, as well as rewards for special services
performed on behalf of the State. Such rewards must be announced at
the time of the appointment, and may not be awarded retroactively.


II.B.7. SODALITATES POSITIONS (officially sanctioned sodalitates
only) Citizens may hold more than one sodalitas position, but get
points for the highest one only. The positions and titles of
officials included in each rank are defined by each Head.

Head of a Sodalitas
10 CP

Person of High Authority:
6 CP

Person of Minor Authority:
3 CP


II.B.8. ORDINES AND CANDIDATURES

Ordines:

Ordo Patricius - 10 CP
Ordo Plebeius - 5 CP
Ordo Equester - 7 CP, which is in addition to those already awarded
for membership in the Patrician or Plebeian orders.

Length of citizenship:

Less than 6 months - 2 CP
More than 6 months - 5 CP
More than 12 months - 10 CP
Each year after 1 year - + 10 CP (up to 50)

Unsuccesssfully run for office:
2 CP
It is not possible to accumulate century points by unsuccessfully
running for more than one office per year.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Ex Offico Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus SPD

I did not report that the auspices are favourable.
I did report that there was nothing to prohibit either comitia from
convening.

Perhaps no difference to many, but a difference to me.
Accurate and truthful v. deceptive.

Valete

----- Original Message -----
From: "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus" <christer.edling@...>
To: "Nova Roma Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NR Announce" <NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:20 PM
Subject: [NovaRoma-Announce] CALL FOR COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA: Edictum
Consulare CFQ XIII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione


> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
>
> Edictum Consulare CFQ XIII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione
>
>
> As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Populi Tributa is hereby
> convened to approve the laws listed under the Agenda.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus" <christer.edling@...>
To: "Nova Roma Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NR Announce" <NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:17 PM
Subject: [NovaRoma-Announce] CALL FOR THE COMITIA CENTURIATA: Edictum
Consulare CFQ XII de Comitiorum Centuriatorum Convocatione


> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
>
> Edictum Consulare CFQ XII de Comitiorum Centuriatorum Convocatione
>
> As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Centuriata is hereby
> convened to approve the laws listed in the Agenda below.

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus SPD

BTW did anyone else notice that this 'Convocatione' began last week and ends
Monday.
Voting began yesterday!

This meeting, Contio shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Friday the 14th of
November,
I did augury for was "unfavorable".

MARS NOS PROTEGAS

> Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani
>
> Edictum Consulare CFQ XII de Comitiorum Centuriatorum Convocatione
>
> As the auspices are favourable the Comitia Centuriata is hereby
> convened to approve the laws listed in the Agenda below.
>
> Contio shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Friday the 14th of November
>
> Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Wednesday the 19th of November
>
> Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Monday 24th of November
>

Salvete Quirites,

The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.

US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
upbriging.

Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.

We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.

We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
an outright ban on accepting minors.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites!
>
> This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia
> Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow Impubes
> to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and
> clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.
>
> ************************
>
> LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
> I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of age
> greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.
>
> II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.
>
> III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to read:
>
> "a. Citizenship
>
> 1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.
>
> 2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children or
> legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are not
> sui iuris.
>
> 3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, regardless
> of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual
> orientation.
>
> 4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris may
> be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such an
> applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant
> macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the Censors
> through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.
>
> 5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that shall
> be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
> notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
> more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have their
> Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal
> guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by notification
> of the censors or by public statement before three or more witnesses."
>
> IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the

Constitution:

> "c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7 shall
> be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other rights
> such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris. Those
> rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the behalf
> of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or
> paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the rights
> of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."
>
> V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various
> offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other laws,
> but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed offices.
> However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.
>
> VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as
> Impuberes (sing. impubes).
>
> VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete omnes.

May I ask to Honorable Senator Sicinius Drusus why he always back his juridic statements in a macronational background as the U.S. Government? As far as I'm concerned, Nova Roma is builded within many countries citizens, which means there is not only one reference for the Leges proposed. I won't go into the current proposal, but many times it seems that (even when is clear that we are inscribed in Maine) Honorable Senator Sicinius Drusus forget that Nova Roma is an International community and therefore what we should look for is for a back in International Laws.

Maybe is time, and this is an item I gift to the candidates to the Consulship, to rebuild Nova Roma in the frame of an International Community not tied to the singular laws of a singular state in a macronational country. We are from many countries, different Civil Codes, different laws, but a single wish; to be romans. Internationally we should get our goals much more than within the jail of internal procedures of a singular country.

I make those statements as a privatus, as a single citizen in Nova Roma whose greater desire is to see a non-divided Res Publica. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
> opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
> Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
> in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
> case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
> of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
> parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
> who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
> of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
> a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.
>
> US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> upbriging.
>
> Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
> wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
> Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
> custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
> Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
> arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
> second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
> of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.
>
> We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
> funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
> OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
> involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.
>
> We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
> an outright ban on accepting minors.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scepitus,

The reason I refereced the laws of the United States is because Nova
Roma is bound by the laws of United States, and will remain bound by
those laws as long as it is incorporated in the United States, or it
operates in the United States.

Neither the United States, the State of Maine, nor any other nation
that Nova Roma operates in recognizes it as an idependant enity, and
nothing is going to change that fact. I'm not in the habit of ignoring
facts just because I find them to be unpleasant.

As long as Nova Roma is incorporated in the United States, or operates
in the United States, US Courts will have jurisdiction over it, and
will be able to sieze any and all assets located in the United States
to sastify a legal judgement. The only way you will be able to escape
from that fact is for Nova Roma to either cease any and all operations
in the USA, which would include stripping all Americans of
citizenship, or for you to submit your own resignation of citizenship
from an organization that continues to operate in the United States.

This isn't a matter that we have any choice in. National Courts have
the power and they will use it on any enity that operates within thier
jurisdiction.

L. Sicinius Drusus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes.
>
> May I ask to Honorable Senator Sicinius Drusus why he always back

his juridic statements in a macronational background as the U.S.
Government? As far as I'm concerned, Nova Roma is builded within many
countries citizens, which means there is not only one reference for
the Leges proposed. I won't go into the current proposal, but many
times it seems that (even when is clear that we are inscribed in
Maine) Honorable Senator Sicinius Drusus forget that Nova Roma is an
International community and therefore what we should look for is for a
back in International Laws.

>
> Maybe is time, and this is an item I gift to the candidates to the

Consulship, to rebuild Nova Roma in the frame of an International
Community not tied to the singular laws of a singular state in a
macronational country. We are from many countries, different Civil
Codes, different laws, but a single wish; to be romans.
Internationally we should get our goals much more than within the jail
of internal procedures of a singular country.

>
> I make those statements as a privatus, as a single citizen in Nova

Roma whose greater desire is to see a non-divided Res Publica. :-)

>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"

<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> > Salvete Quirites,
> >
> > The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
> > opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
> > Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
> > in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
> > case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
> > of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
> > parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
> > who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
> > of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
> > a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.
> >
> > US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> > before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> > upbriging.
> >
> > Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
> > wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
> > Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
> > custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
> > Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
> > arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
> > second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
> > of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.
> >
> > We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
> > funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
> > OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
> > involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.
> >
> > We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
> > an outright ban on accepting minors.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes.
>
> I do join those who praise the organizational skills of Gn. Salix
> Astur and his reliability. He has contributed so many in the
> building of Hispania and its institutions, in the growth of the
> Thules Academy, in promoting meetings between all the Hispanici and
> in make an accurate, rational and efficient approach to our Roman
> heritage that is impossible to enumerate his achievements and
> goals in a so relative short term.
>
> We have also worked together some times and he proves me to be a
> very good listener, a fine intelligent man and a quite fun man
> too :-)
>
> He is also quite known for a very singular virtue; to join those
> who can share with him and Nova Roma the best of each one, so he
> will get the best of all citizens to make a stronger Nova Roma. His
> leadirship is the most valuable card to present us to the world.

Thank you very much for your kind words, tribune :-).

> And a last point, Lanius Paulinus; he also can speak some ancient
> celtic languages. One language more. ;-)

I'm afraid that I have to say that that is a bit of an exageration
:-). It is true that I have been indulging in some study of 1st
century BC Gaulish, but I wouldn't say that I can "speak" it. Not
fluently, at least :-).

CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.

I find myself in partial agreement with the honorable L. Sicinius Drusus on this matter. I do not believe it is a wise law that would allow a minor to become a citizen when his or her parents are not active members of NR themselves. Having been a party (witness) in a matter relating to paganism, minors, and bickering divorced parents, I agree that it is neither prudent or practical to have minors involved with a pagan-oriented organization such as ours. It always amazed me that in the lawsuit I was a witness in, the plaintiff was a citizen of another country who had never showed any interest in his children for 12 years (and never supported them emotionally, financially, or spiritually) since his divorce but when he heard from a family member in the USA that his ex-wife was exposing the children to a pagan upbringing, he launched a lawsuit to show her to be unfit because they were not being raised in his faith. He didn't even want custody, he just wanted the court to order his ex-wife to raise them in his chosen faith or give custody to his family here in the USA.
Section 4. would need to be changed to show written permission of both parents (provided both are still living) regardless of custody or legal guardianship and such permission should be notarized and/or legally witnessed (based on macronational law) before I would consider it. Even with this permission, it would not prevent someone from bringing a legal action against our organization.
Overall, I do not favor this lex in its present form. Vale.

Salve Quirites

I think your analysis, on its face, does not succeed. Generally, a
dissolution court may not prohibit a noncustodial parent from exposing her
children to her church's religious practices, unless there is a clear,
affirmative showing that these religious activities will be harmful to the
child. The point is, is that the cause of action would be a custody dispute
against the non-custodial or custodial parent, and not a cause of action
against the non-custodial parent's religious institution. For example, if my
ex-wife wanted my son to be Jewish, I wouldn't bring a cause of action
against the local synogogue; its the ex-wife that is the problem. I could
certainly name the local synogogue in a petition, but it would be completely
groundless. In any event, to ease your worries, simply grant impubes every
right you envision giving them, but restrict their participation in the
State Religion until the age of majority. This is my general impression. I
haven't researched it fully.

"US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
upbriging."

Have the Courts recognized the right to sue the religions at issue?


Vale

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola





The LaSalle Law Office
James L. LaSalle, Mo. Bar #45485
417 East 13th Street, Suite 517
Kansas City, Missouri 64106
Telephone 816.471.2111
Facsimile 816.471.1539


-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:22 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM


Salvete Quirites,

The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.

US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
upbriging.

Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.

We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.

We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
an outright ban on accepting minors.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites!
>
> This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia
> Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow Impubes
> to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and
> clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.
>
> ************************
>
> LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
> I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of age
> greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.
>
> II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.
>
> III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to read:
>
> "a. Citizenship
>
> 1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.
>
> 2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children or
> legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are not
> sui iuris.
>
> 3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, regardless
> of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual
> orientation.
>
> 4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris may
> be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such an
> applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant
> macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the Censors
> through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.
>
> 5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that shall
> be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
> notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
> more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have their
> Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal
> guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by notification
> of the censors or by public statement before three or more witnesses."
>
> IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the

Constitution:

> "c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7 shall
> be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other rights
> such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris. Those
> rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the behalf
> of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or
> paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the rights
> of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."
>
> V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various
> offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other laws,
> but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed offices.
> However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.
>
> VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as
> Impuberes (sing. impubes).
>
> VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Emilia, I´m very glad you´ve heard our appeal. If you be elected, you
can count with me on everything you need.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "emiliafinnlund4" <e.curia@w...>
wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I saw my name on the list and I'd like you to know that I'm

available.

> Please, add my name to the candidates list. Having taken part to
> organizing ludis before, I know that it can be lots of fun!
>
> Valete bene,
> Emilia Curia Finnica
> Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> <diana@p...> wrote:
> > Salvete citizens!
> >
> > The following citizens qualify for the position of Plebeian Aedile
> and are hereby asked to serve
> > Rome!
> ...

To the extremely humerous Galerius Secundus,
When shagging sheep it is best to get the on the edge of a cliff,
They push back better.
Or so I've heard from some Scotts, lol.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> Flavi Galeri to his cousin (several times removed) Equiti Mercuri.
>
> O.K. so the sheep may be safe from you, cousin, but what about the
goats? Ha, ha. Keep away from me with that sword. Never can find
my scutum when I really need it. The men of the Galeri do not
indulge in relations with beasts. O.K. there was that time that
I 'dated' the Dacian woman but she held me at knifepoint and I didn't
enjoy at all...well maybe some... Maybe we shouldn't pursue this
subject any longer. Vale.

A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Quintius Constantius and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm fine.

> My understanding based on my reading of the Lex
> Fabia de Censo is that those classified as Socii are
> no longer considered citizens for any pratical
> purpose
> and remains so until they petition the censors for
> re-entry to citizenship.

That's my interpretation too, and was, I seem to
recall, the intention of the drafters.

> Based on the numbers given in reply to my
> question, if my calculations are correct, the
> plebeians constitute 67.1% of the population and the
> patricians 32.9%.

I take your figures at face value, since my arithmetic
is probably far worse than yours. :)

> In my opinion, that means this makes the clause
> of
> the Constitution providing that the Tribunes shall
> call the Comitia Populi Tributa to order whenever
> more
> than 10% of the citizenry are patricians are
> operational.

I'm still in agreement. Isn't this pleasant? But:

> It seems to me that this means that the
> out-going
> Tribunes are responsible now not only for holding
> the
> elections for Tribunes and Plebeian Aediles, but
> also
> the elections for Quaestors and Curule Aediles.

The constitution, owing to the need for brevity, is
not always as clear as it might be. The intended
meaning of this clause, as I understand it, and the
way it has always been interpreted in the past, is not
that the Tribunes *alone* now have the authority to
convene the comitia populi tributa, but that when
wishing to enact legislation they must use that
assembly rather than the comitia plebis tributa.

This is, of course, because it would be undesirable to
have such a large proportion of citizens excluded from
the voting of laws which will affect them. And for
that reason it doesn't include cases of legislation
relating to the plebs alone, or elections of plebeian
magistrates, for both of which the comitia plebis
tributa is still the correct body.

Well, that explanation is certainly longer than the
relevant constitutional clause - is it any clearer?

________________________________________________________________________
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Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
Senator & Consular, and all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I did not report that the auspices are favourable.
> I did report that there was nothing to prohibit
> either comitia from
> convening.

Forgive me if I'm behind the game, but this has left
me rather confused. I assume that you have been
invited to take the auspices, as per article III.B.2
of the lex Fabia on the centuriate assembly and the
equivalent clause of the lex Cornelia Vedia on the
popular tribal assembly. Am I right so far?

In which case, do you mean to say that you have not
yet taken the auspices? If so, then I'm not sure how
you can say that there's nothing to prevent the
assemblies from being convened - the usual
interpretation of the law holds that the assemblies
can't be convened unless the auspices are favourable
(though I admit the law itself doesn't say so).

Are you proposing a new interpretation of the law? Or
have you in fact taken the auspices and found them,
somehow, neutral?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to explain.

________________________________________________________________________
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Salvete omnes et tu, Sicinius Drusus


My question is not only aimed to get an answer like that, Honorable Senator, but to arise a debate that might be of very importance, even I believe capital importance, in the current procedures to elect magistrates.

I know Nova Roma is tied to the laws of the U.S, but my question is... why only the U.S? If we are all romans, as we look for, we should be bounded to *our* own leges as a whole micronation, shouldn't we?. I know it sounds little bit naive, but my statements goes towards a specific path.

I would like to ask all the citizenry, from the U.S or whenever they are, if wouldn't it be a good idea to incorporate Nova Roma to a set of international laws that would back and strengthen the Res Publica we try to create. If we wan't "to make pagans" we first have to allow pagans to be. And I see no better choice than to act as an International Association.

I arise this debate in order to avoid the crack you suggest, Senator. I do not believe on that about four or five hundred citizens from the U.S. leaving their citizenship of Nova Roma, nor me at all. But on the barrier it would be for non U.S. citizens who could believe Nova Roma is "another american asociation".

What I ask myself is if we could get over the Maine laws and therefore leave them for individuals but not for organizations. We'll have always a belt crossing our chests as a barrier if we want to grow, to make it a real pagan and cultural association. And I wouldn't be so fatalist as you in your last statement ("This isn't a matter that we have any choice in) maybe we have some choices. We only have to study them... and approve them if so.

BTW, curious statement. "I'm not in the habit of ignoring facts just because I find them to be unpleasant." It has surprised me, Senator. Then when facts seems so nasty, what is the best course of action? :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS



<Salve Scepitus,

<The reason I refereced the laws of the United States is because Nova
<Roma is bound by the laws of United States, and will remain bound by
t<hose laws as long as it is incorporated in the United States, or it
<operates in the United States.

<Neither the United States, the State of Maine, nor any other nation
t<hat Nova Roma operates in recognizes it as an idependant enity, and
<nothing is going to change that fact. I'm not in the habit of ignoring
<facts just because I find them to be unpleasant.

<As long as Nova Roma is incorporated in the United States, or operates
<in the United States, US Courts will have jurisdiction over it, and
<will be able to sieze any and all assets located in the United States
<to sastify a legal judgement. The only way you will be able to escape
<from that fact is for Nova Roma to either cease any and all operations
<in the USA, which would include stripping all Americans of<
<citizenship, or for you to submit your own resignation of citizenship
<from an organization that continues to operate in the United States.

<This isn't a matter that we have any choice in. National Courts have
<the power and they will use it on any enity that operates within thier
j<urisdiction.

<L. Sicinius Drusus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites,

Now that we have three excellent candidates, some even more excellent, I
mean good looking, than others (wink,wink soror !) I do have a question that
will in my mind decide who I am going to vote for :

What do the candidates intend to do about the unhistorical Gens situation ?

Do you want to wait and see ? Do you want to tackle the issue hard on the
head ?
Quod dicitis candidati ?

Respectfully

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

The case involving the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of allegance
was not filed against the custodial parent, but was filed against the
school system where the pledge was being recited, and custody was not
part of that suit. The Courts accpted the non custodial parents right
to sue an organization for actions that went against his religion, or
in this case his anti religion.

Due to the General hostility towards Pagans in this part of the United
States I have no doubt that a court would accept a case filed against
Nova Roma, and that a jury would hand our head on a platter to a
plaintiff in that case. We might win on appeal IF we had the funds to
persue the appeal, but that would cost a lot more money than we have
or are likely to have anytime soon.

At the very least it would be foolish to pass this law before we are
dead certain that it is worded to protect Nova Roma inc against any
possibility of Civil action for admitting minors. That would not only
include a review of US law, but those of other nations where Nova Roma
inc operates. the USA isn't the only place where Pagans aren't popular
with the general population, though it is the most dangrous due to
having most of our assets under the jurisdiction of US courts.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <jlasalle@s...> wrote:
> Salve Quirites
>
> I think your analysis, on its face, does not succeed. Generally, a
> dissolution court may not prohibit a noncustodial parent from
exposing her
> children to her church's religious practices, unless there is a clear,
> affirmative showing that these religious activities will be harmful
to the
> child. The point is, is that the cause of action would be a custody
dispute
> against the non-custodial or custodial parent, and not a cause of action
> against the non-custodial parent's religious institution. For
example, if my
> ex-wife wanted my son to be Jewish, I wouldn't bring a cause of action
> against the local synogogue; its the ex-wife that is the problem. I
could
> certainly name the local synogogue in a petition, but it would be
completely
> groundless. In any event, to ease your worries, simply grant impubes
every
> right you envision giving them, but restrict their participation in the
> State Religion until the age of majority. This is my general
impression. I
> haven't researched it fully.
>
> "US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> upbriging."
>
> Have the Courts recognized the right to sue the religions at issue?
>
>
> Vale
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
> The LaSalle Law Office
> James L. LaSalle, Mo. Bar #45485
> 417 East 13th Street, Suite 517
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> Telephone 816.471.2111
> Facsimile 816.471.1539
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:22 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
> opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
> Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
> in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
> case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
> of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
> parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
> who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
> of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
> a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.
>
> US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> upbriging.
>
> Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
> wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
> Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
> custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
> Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
> arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
> second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
> of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.
>
> We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
> funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
> OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
> involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.
>
> We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
> an outright ban on accepting minors.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> <christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites!
> >
> > This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia
> > Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow Impubes
> > to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and
> > clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.
> >
> > ************************
> >
> > LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
> >
> > I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of age
> > greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.
> >
> > II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.
> >
> > III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to
read:
> >
> > "a. Citizenship
> >
> > 1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.
> >
> > 2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children or
> > legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are not
> > sui iuris.
> >
> > 3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, regardless
> > of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual
> > orientation.
> >
> > 4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris may
> > be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such an
> > applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant
> > macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the Censors
> > through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.
> >
> > 5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that
shall
> > be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
> > notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
> > more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have their
> > Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal
> > guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by notification
> > of the censors or by public statement before three or more
witnesses."
> >
> > IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the
> Constitution:
> > "c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7
shall
> > be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other rights
> > such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris.
Those
> > rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the
behalf
> > of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or
> > paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the
rights
> > of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."
> >
> > V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various
> > offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other
laws,
> > but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed
offices.
> > However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.
> >
> > VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as
> > Impuberes (sing. impubes).
> >
> > VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> > Senior Consul et Senator
> > Propraetor Thules
> > Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> > Civis Romanus sum
> > ************************************************
> > Cohors Consulis CFQ
> > http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> > ************************************************
> > Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> > "I'll either find a way or make one"
> > ************************************************
> > Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> > Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Actually I have been looking into the laws of other US states besides
Maine to see in incorporation in alternate local would be more in the
intrests of Nova Roma. The research on US laws in no way means that
I'm adverse to the idea of incorporation outside of the United States
in that would best serve the intrests of Nova Roma.

Even we change the coprate papers we will still be answerable to the
courts of the United States as long as we operate inside the USA and
this also holds true for any other country we operate in. There are
only two way to avoid the jurisdiction of national courts. The first
is not to operate within the jurisdiction of that nation. The second
is to not only gain diplomatic recognition from that government, but
to also gain a treaty granting Nova Roman citizens and it's government
extraterritorial rights. The chances of the later happening are about
the same as the chances of the Pope converting to the Religio Romana.

The Vatican is an independant nation and is recognized as such by the
many nations and the United Nations. It does not have extraterritorial
rights however. Catholics remain under the jurisdiction of national
courts and can be sued or forced to answer criminal charges. The
Church itself can be sued, and at least in the USA has been subject to
several large judgements against it in recent times. The Vatican has
far more clout than Nova Roma is going to achive for the forseeable
future and they can't escape the powers of national courts where the
Catholic church operates. There is no possibility that Nova Roma will
be able to do something that is beyond the power of the Vatican.

L. Sicinius Drusus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes et tu, Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> My question is not only aimed to get an answer like that, Honorable

Senator, but to arise a debate that might be of very importance, even
I believe capital importance, in the current procedures to elect
magistrates.

>
> I know Nova Roma is tied to the laws of the U.S, but my question

is... why only the U.S? If we are all romans, as we look for, we
should be bounded to *our* own leges as a whole micronation, shouldn't
we?. I know it sounds little bit naive, but my statements goes towards
a specific path.

>
> I would like to ask all the citizenry, from the U.S or whenever they

are, if wouldn't it be a good idea to incorporate Nova Roma to a set
of international laws that would back and strengthen the Res Publica
we try to create. If we wan't "to make pagans" we first have to allow
pagans to be. And I see no better choice than to act as an
International Association.

>
> I arise this debate in order to avoid the crack you suggest,

Senator. I do not believe on that about four or five hundred citizens
from the U.S. leaving their citizenship of Nova Roma, nor me at all.
But on the barrier it would be for non U.S. citizens who could believe
Nova Roma is "another american asociation".

>
> What I ask myself is if we could get over the Maine laws and

therefore leave them for individuals but not for organizations. We'll
have always a belt crossing our chests as a barrier if we want to
grow, to make it a real pagan and cultural association. And I wouldn't
be so fatalist as you in your last statement ("This isn't a matter
that we have any choice in) maybe we have some choices. We only have
to study them... and approve them if so.

>
> BTW, curious statement. "I'm not in the habit of ignoring facts just

because I find them to be unpleasant." It has surprised me, Senator.
Then when facts seems so nasty, what is the best course of action? :-)

>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
>
>
> <Salve Scepitus,
>
> <The reason I refereced the laws of the United States is because Nova
> <Roma is bound by the laws of United States, and will remain bound by
> t<hose laws as long as it is incorporated in the United States, or it
> <operates in the United States.
>
> <Neither the United States, the State of Maine, nor any other nation
> t<hat Nova Roma operates in recognizes it as an idependant enity, and
> <nothing is going to change that fact. I'm not in the habit of ignoring
> <facts just because I find them to be unpleasant.
>
> <As long as Nova Roma is incorporated in the United States, or operates
> <in the United States, US Courts will have jurisdiction over it, and
> <will be able to sieze any and all assets located in the United States
> <to sastify a legal judgement. The only way you will be able to escape
> <from that fact is for Nova Roma to either cease any and all operations
> <in the USA, which would include stripping all Americans of<
> <citizenship, or for you to submit your own resignation of citizenship
> <from an organization that continues to operate in the United States.
>
> <This isn't a matter that we have any choice in. National Courts have
> <the power and they will use it on any enity that operates within thier
> j<urisdiction.
>
> <L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave

I still disagree. In the case you are citing, Michael A. Newdon v. U. S.
Congress, et al. U. S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth District. 00-16423.
June 26, 2002, is very narrow issue wise. In that case the Pledge of
Allegiance was ruled un-Constitutional in public schools. A minor who is a
citizen of Nova Roma cannot be construed to be in a similar captured,
coercive atmosphere as a public school student. Its an ephemeral entity on
the internet. Any coercion to particpate in the religion would have to be
done on the parent who is making the child sacrifice chickens to Mithra. The
cause of action would lie against the parent. There is no governmental
activity present in Nova Roma to raise the spectre of US Constitutional
violations. This is not to say that someone couldn't bring a lawsuit against
Nova Roma for any freakin' reason they want. Lawsuits don't have to have a
good reason behind them, from a pro se point of view. Whethr or not they are
successful, is another issue. But excessive worry over lawsuits could keep
one from getting out of bed in the morning. Frankly, the publicity of such
a lawsuit would be staggering.

GB Agricola




-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:41 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM


The case involving the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of allegance
was not filed against the custodial parent, but was filed against the
school system where the pledge was being recited, and custody was not
part of that suit. The Courts accpted the non custodial parents right
to sue an organization for actions that went against his religion, or
in this case his anti religion.

Due to the General hostility towards Pagans in this part of the United
States I have no doubt that a court would accept a case filed against
Nova Roma, and that a jury would hand our head on a platter to a
plaintiff in that case. We might win on appeal IF we had the funds to
persue the appeal, but that would cost a lot more money than we have
or are likely to have anytime soon.

At the very least it would be foolish to pass this law before we are
dead certain that it is worded to protect Nova Roma inc against any
possibility of Civil action for admitting minors. That would not only
include a review of US law, but those of other nations where Nova Roma
inc operates. the USA isn't the only place where Pagans aren't popular
with the general population, though it is the most dangrous due to
having most of our assets under the jurisdiction of US courts.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <jlasalle@s...> wrote:
> Salve Quirites
>
> I think your analysis, on its face, does not succeed. Generally, a
> dissolution court may not prohibit a noncustodial parent from
exposing her
> children to her church's religious practices, unless there is a clear,
> affirmative showing that these religious activities will be harmful
to the
> child. The point is, is that the cause of action would be a custody
dispute
> against the non-custodial or custodial parent, and not a cause of action
> against the non-custodial parent's religious institution. For
example, if my
> ex-wife wanted my son to be Jewish, I wouldn't bring a cause of action
> against the local synogogue; its the ex-wife that is the problem. I
could
> certainly name the local synogogue in a petition, but it would be
completely
> groundless. In any event, to ease your worries, simply grant impubes
every
> right you envision giving them, but restrict their participation in the
> State Religion until the age of majority. This is my general
impression. I
> haven't researched it fully.
>
> "US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> upbriging."
>
> Have the Courts recognized the right to sue the religions at issue?
>
>
> Vale
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
> The LaSalle Law Office
> James L. LaSalle, Mo. Bar #45485
> 417 East 13th Street, Suite 517
> Kansas City, Missouri 64106
> Telephone 816.471.2111
> Facsimile 816.471.1539
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:22 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It
> opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc. Non
> Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier children
> in the United States and the Courts have accepted these cases. The
> case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that the "under God" portion
> of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional was filed by a non custodial
> parent. There is currently a case in the news regarding a US soldier
> who went AWOL because of a custody dispute. That dispute arose because
> of the fundementalist religion of the children's natural mother who is
> a noncustodial parent. The case was accepted by the courts.
>
> US Courts recognize a non custodial parent's right to bring actions
> before the courts in matters pertaining to thier child's religious
> upbriging.
>
> Due to the pressence of the Religio in Nova Roma the acceptance of the
> wrong Minor could result in a civil suit being filed against Nova
> Roma, even if we have the permission of a custodial parent. A Non
> custodial parent has a right recognized by US courts to file a suit. A
> Custodial parent could also file a suit after granting permission
> arguing that they were decived about the nature of Nova Roma. The
> second case has little legal merit, but it would stand a strong chance
> of being accepted by a judge and jury in the bible belt.
>
> We could wind up losing a civil suit simply because we lacked the
> funds to defend ourselves. There are jurisdictions in the USA where
> OJ's dream team of lawyers wouldn't be able to win a case that
> involved the Xtian parents of a minor vs a Pagan organization.
>
> We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need
> an outright ban on accepting minors.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> <christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites!
> >
> > This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia
> > Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow Impubes
> > to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and
> > clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.
> >
> > ************************
> >
> > LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
> >
> > I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of age
> > greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.
> >
> > II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.
> >
> > III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to
read:
> >
> > "a. Citizenship
> >
> > 1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.
> >
> > 2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children or
> > legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are not
> > sui iuris.
> >
> > 3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, regardless
> > of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual
> > orientation.
> >
> > 4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris may
> > be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such an
> > applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant
> > macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the Censors
> > through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.
> >
> > 5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that
shall
> > be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
> > notification of the censors or by public statement before three or
> > more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have their
> > Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal
> > guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by notification
> > of the censors or by public statement before three or more
witnesses."
> >
> > IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the
> Constitution:
> > "c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7
shall
> > be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other rights
> > such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris.
Those
> > rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the
behalf
> > of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or
> > paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the
rights
> > of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."
> >
> > V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various
> > offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other
laws,
> > but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed
offices.
> > However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.
> >
> > VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as
> > Impuberes (sing. impubes).
> >
> > VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> > Senior Consul et Senator
> > Propraetor Thules
> > Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> > Civis Romanus sum
> > ************************************************
> > Cohors Consulis CFQ
> > http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> > ************************************************
> > Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> > "I'll either find a way or make one"
> > ************************************************
> > Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> > Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave:

"A member of the Collegium Augurum shall be invited by the presiding
magistrate to seek favorable auspices for the conduct of the vote, subject
to those rules and regulations the Collegium Augurum shall set forth by
decreta."

This law is written poorly. "...shall be invited..."? "Invited"? What if he
already has plans? Does he have to RSVP? Can he decline the invitation? The
word "shall" imposes an absolute duty to "invite" on the party doing the
inviting, but it does not bind the invitee, in this case, the augur. It
should read ""A member of the Collegium Augurum shall be REQUIRED....to seek
favorable blah blah...". No confusion. Just my humble opinion. If anyone
disagrees with me, they are wrong.

"the usual interpretation of the law holds that the assemblies can't be
convened unless the auspices are favourable(though I admit the law itself
doesn't say so)."

It may be the usual practice not convene unless favorable auspices are
taken, but it can't be a rational usual interpretation of this law as it is
written. When does a law say something that it doesn't say? I don't know.
Thats why there are judges, as Roe v. Wade taught us.

GB Agricola


-----Original Message-----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus [mailto:a_apollonius_cordus@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:30 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] CALL FOR COMITIA POPULI
TRIBUTA: Edictum Consulare CFQ XIII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum
Convocatione


A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
Senator & Consular, and all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I did not report that the auspices are favourable.
> I did report that there was nothing to prohibit
> either comitia from
> convening.

Forgive me if I'm behind the game, but this has left
me rather confused. I assume that you have been
invited to take the auspices, as per article III.B.2
of the lex Fabia on the centuriate assembly and the
equivalent clause of the lex Cornelia Vedia on the
popular tribal assembly. Am I right so far?

In which case, do you mean to say that you have not
yet taken the auspices? If so, then I'm not sure how
you can say that there's nothing to prevent the
assemblies from being convened - the usual
interpretation of the law holds that the assemblies
can't be convened unless the auspices are favourable
(though I admit the law itself doesn't say so).

Are you proposing a new interpretation of the law? Or
have you in fact taken the auspices and found them,
somehow, neutral?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to explain.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Speaking as a minor,
I don't feel we should be allowed to become citizens untill we are
mature enough to make the decision wholeheartedly and legally.
There are places within nova Roma for minors to participate without
becoming full citizens as in the main list and the religio section.
Even with parental consent, you can't be sure and as much as I like
and favor Nova Roma, there are those who might consider it a cult
like organization brainwashing children (extremists will find any
argument to squash a good thing).
This isn't saying they wouldn't try it even after someone is of age
but by then, there is no legal hangup.
Justinian

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
>
> I find myself in partial agreement with the honorable L. Sicinius
Drusus on this matter. I do not believe it is a wise law that would
allow a minor to become a citizen when his or her parents are not
active members of NR themselves. Having been a party (witness) in a
matter relating to paganism, minors, and bickering divorced parents,
I agree that it is neither prudent or practical to have minors
involved with a pagan-oriented organization such as ours. It always
amazed me that in the lawsuit I was a witness in, the plaintiff was a
citizen of another country who had never showed any interest in his
children for 12 years (and never supported them emotionally,
financially, or spiritually) since his divorce but when he heard from
a family member in the USA that his ex-wife was exposing the children
to a pagan upbringing, he launched a lawsuit to show her to be unfit
because they were not being raised in his faith. He didn't even want
custody, he just wanted the court to order his ex-wife to raise them
in his chosen faith or give custody to his family here in the USA.
> Section 4. would need to be changed to show written permission of
both parents (provided both are still living) regardless of custody
or legal guardianship and such permission should be notarized and/or
legally witnessed (based on macronational law) before I would
consider it. Even with this permission, it would not prevent someone
from bringing a legal action against our organization.
> Overall, I do not favor this lex in its present form. Vale.

A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune L. Didius Geminus
Sceptius and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I have to admit that whenever I see an eminently
sensible proposal assailed by fears that it will clash
with the statutes of the state of Maine, my
instinctive response is not 'well, we'd better drop
the idea' but rather 'well, we'd better leave Maine'.
And naturally when the objection is that many people
in the US are hostile to paganism, my reaction, even
more strongly, is 'let's go somewhere that isn't
hostile to paganism'.

Of course I've no idea whether there's anywhere we
that would be better for us to be incorporated - it's
quite possible that everywhere has similar problems.
Nonetheless, I think you're quite right to suggest
that our place of incorporation should be chosen by
asking not 'where are most of our citizens resident?'
but 'which nation's laws will cause the minimum
possible interference with Nova Roma's mission?' I
hope and presume that those with the power to change
our place of incorporation do indeed choose it on the
latter basis.

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A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
Senator & Consular, and all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

> This meeting, Contio shall begin at 18.00 Roman time
> Friday the 14th of
> November,
> I did augury for was "unfavorable".

Indeed? Then I'm puzzled as to why you say you
informed the Consul that there was nothing preventing
the meeting from taking place at those times.

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I prefer goats.

Trajan Justinian <harrituspotterus1@...> wrote:To the extremely humerous Galerius Secundus,
When shagging sheep it is best to get the on the edge of a cliff,
They push back better.
Or so I've heard from some Scotts, lol.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> Flavi Galeri to his cousin (several times removed) Equiti Mercuri.
>
> O.K. so the sheep may be safe from you, cousin, but what about the
goats? Ha, ha. Keep away from me with that sword. Never can find
my scutum when I really need it. The men of the Galeri do not
indulge in relations with beasts. O.K. there was that time that
I 'dated' the Dacian woman but she held me at knifepoint and I didn't
enjoy at all...well maybe some... Maybe we shouldn't pursue this
subject any longer. Vale.


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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Laureate Armorice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:

> Salvete quirites,
>
> Now that we have three excellent candidates, some even more
> excellent, I mean good looking, than others (wink,wink soror !)

Oh, thank you, thank you.
Although I do not understand why you are calling me "soror".
;-).

> I do have a question that will in my mind decide who I am going to
> vote for :
>
> What do the candidates intend to do about the unhistorical Gens
> situation ?
>
> Do you want to wait and see ? Do you want to tackle the issue hard
> on the head ? Quod dicitis candidati ?

I am going to say the proverbial "I am happy to hear that question"
:-). In fact, I was going to talk about that on a later message, but
since you have presented the issue, I might as well reply to you
right away.

I think that Nova Roma should strive to follow the Mos Maiorum as
much as possible. After all, bringing back "the best of Rome" is what
we are about. And I think that our current gens system is
unhistorical, and that it creates many unnecessary problems. I think
that it should be changed.

The problem is that this particular issue has been the source of much
controversy in the past, perhaps far more than necessary. I think
that, if we actually try to discuss about this issue from the very
beginning and avoiding falling in the same mistakes, we might reach a
solution, an agreement that will satisfy the different factions.

In practical terms, what am I talking about? I would like to have a
*private* debate with representatives of each position concerned. I
would act as moderator of such a debate, to avoid emotions from
overwhelming rational perspectives. And I would draft, with the
results of that debate, a final legislative proposal to bring ou gens
system closer to its Roman traditional counterpart.

What do you think about that idea? :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR