Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola!

> <grin> None of us are, given that our life span is a shortish sort

of a

> thing.

Wow, say *that* three times fast :-)

> but if your contention was correct, then most adults
> would be morons and wild animals.

hehe. I'm not necessarily saying they aren't. ;)

> Otherwise, I'm going
> to treat it as the most exact communication of which you're

capable. I

> believe this to be the only reasonable way to do communication in e-

mail

> - since all the standard conversational clues are absent. It may be

a

> bit stilted, but it's the only way I know of to actually get

something

> across in this medium.

I will take that into consideration in the future.

> > Then I officially appoint you babysitter :)
>
> That's cute! :) Despite the implication that these young hellions,

erm,

> I mean active new members of Nova Roma need supervision - something

with

> which I disagree - what do you think of an establishment of a

Sodalitas

> for Nova Roma minors?

*That* is a good idea. I was actually pondering alternatives at
lunch & thought of that myself.

> And I thank you as well. It's always a pleasure to discuss

interesting

> topics that affect all of us; truth, in my opinion and contrary to

the

> old saying, is not to be found in wine but in rational discussion.
> Although I wouldn't spurn a cup of some good Falernian with my

dinner.

> :)

I'll you on both sentiments! I've learned a lot from this.

Vale,

Agrippina Modia Aurelia

A. Apollonius Cordus to Governor D. Iunius Silanus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

With regard to the proposed century points for
provincial underlings, you said:

> Whilst I applaud the emphasis on flexibility, might
> it
> not be sensible here to define more clearly the
> different ranks of officials. Thus 1st rank=senior
> legate, 2nd rank=legate, 3rd rank=scribe so on and
> so
> forth. This would provide us governors with greater
> guidance in this matter, allow for greater
> continuity
> of century point allocation across the provinces and
> thirdly reduce the possibility of abuse. Such
> recommendations would still allow governors
> flexibility in appointing provincial officials.

The problem, as I understand it, with that idea is
that over the years of Nova Roma's existence governors
have each developed their own structures and
hierarchies, making it very hard and very disruptive
to try to attach any particular job title to these
ranks - what to one governor may be a top-level job
may to another be middling in importance. Moreover,
one province may have officers whose jobs don't exist
in other provinces, being specially adapted to local
needs - thus the law would have to specify an almost
endless list of titles.

It's important to remember that, though each governor
will have discretion in deciding what rank corresponds
to which particular officers in his or her province,
supervision will be exercised both by the watchful eye
of the general public and, more systematically, by the
Senate. I trust that significant discrepancies between
provinces would soon be spotted and rectified. If it
turns out that this isn't happening, then a review and
a re-think will be in order; and solutions shouldn't
be hard to find - between even the handful of us in
the consul's legal office we came up with several
possible solutions. In the end the consul decided it
would be best to go ahead with the simple plan of
'trust the senate and the governors to make it work',
and I think this that's a sound base to lay down at
this stage.

________________________________________________________________________
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A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Iulius Scaurus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Many thanks for your explanation of the grades of
auspiciousness (an ugly word in the interests of
brevity, contrary to my custom!) - I'm far less
confused now.

________________________________________________________________________
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A. Apollonius Cordus to Flavius Galerius Aurelianus
Secundus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Bravo, sir! If we're both elected I shall be pleased
to have the chance to work with you, and I'm glad the
same prospect hasn't put you off, as it evidently has
everyone else. :)

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
| Seriously, that does bring up an interesting point. If the Swedish
| government is interested in promoting generalized research to that
| degree (I suspect that your board games tie into that heading in some
| way), Nova Roma could definitely stand to benefit by exploring this
| issue.

Salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola, amice.

This'd probably only be possible if we had some sort of "actual
presence" here, such as...ehmm..."being incorporated" (wrong term) much
as my gaming group is. Private citizens wouldn't get grants for this
kind of thing, nor would a foreign organisation with swedish members.

However, if we registered "Nova Roma Provincia Thule Regio Suecica" in
Sweden as, say, a reenactment organisation, we'd get paid a basic
2000SEK plus 40SEK per swedish member, I believe. This is what us
boardgamers get from "SVEROK" (SWEdish Role And Conflict gaming
organisation) each year, and they get their money from the government.

As a "historical studies interest group", we might possibly register in
a slightly different way, making us eligible for the above grant and a
few others, as well. At least I think so, but don't quote me on it.

It IS possible that if Nova Roma, as a whole, was to be registered as a
swedish organisation, we'd be able to start claiming "benefits" for all
members, including foreign ones, but again, don't quote me on that. I'll
write a mail to SVEROK and ask them about their rules in particular.

(Ponderings: 1000 members, 40SEK a piece, 2000SEK base...that's 42k, or
about $5000US, yearly. *drools a little* Off I go to ask them kindly.)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Salve, Agrippina Modia Aurelia!

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 06:15:44PM -0000, agrippina_modia_aurelia wrote:
> Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola!
>
> > <grin> None of us are, given that our life span is a shortish sort
> of a
> > thing.
>
> Wow, say *that* three times fast :-)

Shssh... a shush... We don't live too long, anyway. Three times fast. :)

> > but if your contention was correct, then most adults
> > would be morons and wild animals.
>
> hehe. I'm not necessarily saying they aren't. ;)

<laugh> Like son, like father... or something like that.

> > That's cute! :) Despite the implication that these young hellions,
> erm,
> > I mean active new members of Nova Roma need supervision - something
> with
> > which I disagree - what do you think of an establishment of a
> Sodalitas
> > for Nova Roma minors?
>
> *That* is a good idea. I was actually pondering alternatives at
> lunch & thought of that myself.

I'd figure it would be a closed list, where they'd have the option of
saying "adults SUCK!" without retribution. :) And you'd have to be under
18 to get in. And there would be a wicked cool secret handshake and
stuff.

Ooops... :)

> > And I thank you as well. It's always a pleasure to discuss
> interesting
> > topics that affect all of us; truth, in my opinion and contrary to
> the
> > old saying, is not to be found in wine but in rational discussion.
> > Although I wouldn't spurn a cup of some good Falernian with my
> dinner.
> > :)
>
> I'll you on both sentiments! I've learned a lot from this.

Thanks - true for both of us! I'll happily stand you a cup if we're ever
in the same area.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Honores mutant mores.
The honours change the customs. (Power corrupts.)
-- N/A

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius"
<sceptia@y...> wrote:

>

>
> SCEPTIVS: Senator, if you want to know who can be hostile, there are
> several more countries in the world hostile against Nova Roma. Some
> has spoken about Greece, which surprised me. I can say that Spain is
> a country not very receptive to new religions. And that Morocco
> Kingdom is quite hostil to any other but Islam religion. Each
> country has indeed some kind of barrier against new ideas or
> religions. Furthermore, a North Korean joining Nova Roma or an
> Iranian, Saudi or Sudani (Those countries of "evil axis") would find
> maybe a fresh fountain in Nova Roma as far as the risks you mention.
> We can or not be neutral in individual terms, but as a micronation
> who pretends to be equal to macronations somehow, we must recognyze
> the existence of that governments even if we dislike them. For
> instance, in Spain most of the people doesn't hate too much any
> other countries or governments. Just recognyze them and live and let
> die.
>
> Senator, some times it seems to me that you bring too many times
> your macronational concerns to our Republic, and this is not the
> best way to defend it interests. Is just my opinion. :-)

My Views on Macronations difere sharply from the views of the United
States government in some cases, please note that I included Saudi
Arabia among the Nations I consider repugnant, a view that the US
State Department dosen't share. They have been kissing up to them for
70 years. I Could also mention Isreal where I strongly disagree with
the US policy of acting as the Isreali's lapdog, and the PRC where the
US government considers trade more important than the disgusting Human
rights record of the country.

Nova Roma's policy should be based on Nova Roma's intrests, not those
of the United States, or for that matter on those of any other nation
who are just as self centered as the USA when it comes to sitting policy.


L. Sicinius Drusus

Salve!

> <chuckle> That was a large part of my point. There's nothing
> specifically inherent in being a teenager that restricts negative
> behavior to then alone. In fact, most of the trouble in this world

is

> created by us adults; we have the power to push The Big Red Buttons,
> etc.

I think everyone, regardless of age, contributes in their own way -
negative or positive.

> Darn. :) It is an interesting topic, though; feel free to e-mail me
> privately if you're interested in trying that one.

I'm certainly not well read enough to debate that in earnest. I know
(occasionally) when to give up. ;)

> I presume you're talking about the need to control specific negative
> behaviors in teenagers rather than giving "the short end of the

stick"

> to everyone who happens to be in a certain age group - right? That

would

> shift the point to something quite different.

Yes. I think there has to be a measure of control in that respect.
Although, in thinking about it, I believe there was mention of
putting all new members on a moderated status when they join. If
there is such a system in place, I suppose that would be sufficient.

> That "grey area" applies to almost anything we do in Nova Roma.

Ah, *exactly.* Why should be pass another lex that potentially
creates more grey area? I think we should devote our efforts to
clearing those up first. Hell, several citizens are, once again,
debating NR as a US organization vs. and international organization.
We just had that debate, what, a month ago?

> The possibility of a frivolous lawsuit is a
> constant of _life_ in the States (and varying in degree in other
> places);

Sadly that is very true. My feeling is that we should try to limit
the ways in which we expose ourselves in as much as we can.

> Was it?

As far as I know it was. Additionally there is the census to
consider. Many of the forms were returned due to incorrect
addresses. That can be quite expensive for the larger provinces. In
some sense teenagers are more stable since they live at home with
their parents, but as they go off to college, etc, their addresses
can change frequently. So in that sense, having many socii is bad.
But its bad regardeless of age.

> This assumes that a load of teens would jump on a bus, show up and

eat

> their fill without contributing anything - e.g., some dishes for the
> potluck, clean-up effort, scullery work, etc. - and disappear.

That's true. I, personally, doubt that that would happen - Ok, I
hope that wouldn't happen.

> Do you suppose that joining NR for a chance of a free meal is

stretching

> things a bit too far? :)

I really wasn't thinking about free meals. From what I understand
each gathering was accompanied by a free gift. This year it was a
small bottle of custom-labeled (Lacus Magni Province) wine, the
previous year it was engraved wine glasses, and prior to that it was
a very nice scroll depicting a gladitorial contest (if I'm not
mistaken). Those things add up!

We did, apparently, have a teenager & his mother come to the previous
year's gathering. Unfortunately he didn't stay long.

> (<grin> Watch me get buried under a flood of email. Wouldn't be the
> first time I mis-estimated the public sentiment.)

Well, you did ask for it ;) I wouldn't have a problem with it - but
then again, I'm generally a sucker for sob stories and "well-meaning"
types - much to the detrement of my bank account.

> > Visualization is all well and good, it doesn't make the legal

problem

> > disappear.
>
> No actual legal problem exists. Even the potential for one, as I've
> shown above, remains constant with the addition of this Lex.

I wasn't saying that one necessarily does. From what I understand of
the other discussions on this lex, the potential is there. Yes, its
a constantly there with all of them but why add more?

> > It will not prevent the more troublesome teenagers from
> > trying to stir up problems (or the adults for that matter).
>
> So - we agree that trouble is not teenager-specific? That was my

entire

> point.

Yes. I do agree with you there. People, in general, are a problem :)

> Oh, your disagreement - since it has lead to an interesting

discussion -

> is perfectly fine by me. If you were a pesky teenager who disagreed

with

> my wisdom, however... oh, sorry, got carried away there. :)))

<grin> Good thing I'm not! It has been an intersting discussion. I
always learn a lot from debates - usually about how flawed my
logical, reasoning & analytical skills are, but at least I learn
something :D

Vale,

Agrippina Modia Aurelia

Salve Julilla,

> *drawing closer to the radiant candidate, sotto voce:* By the way,
> carissime, only lupae wore togas: get yourself a smart white stola
> and palla set, it's just the thing for the long campaign trail.

Nah, if I want to hang out with the big boys, I have to dress like one of them ;-)

Vale,
Diana

Salve Gnaeus Scribonius,

Welcome to Nova Roma! You've picked an exciting time to join!!

>This may seem kind of a dumb question but, when are elections?

It is not a dumb question at all. Behind the scenes, Titus Labienus (who is the Junior Consul and
presiding magistrate of the Comitia Centuriata elections) and myself (presiding magistrate of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa elections) are going to call for a vote in early December if the auspices are
good. Don't worry, when it is time to vote, you'll hear about it loud and clear!

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salve Anneia,

> I feel so very alone right now. I'm not in a bad mood or state, but I feel
> alone because I just don't know where I belong, yet I know what and who I want
> to be.

What don't you just be who you are? Maybe your place is to be a bit different and different is good.
Who wants to be a clone anyway? :-)

<In other words, I wish to be a strong and noble matrona, even if I

> have no royal or noble blood (as in "titles") flowing through my veins and
> arteries.

Blood has nothing to do with being strong and noble, no matter what the Monarchies may try to make
us believe :-)

<I wish to be a fighter, for what is right and for what is just. To help

> keep the world in order and in balance. Yet, at the same time, I know I
> cannot control anyone else. It's frustrating, because I feel such a calling to be
> a model for other matrona everywhere.

So be a fighter dear. Whose says that you can't? There is nothing wrong with being a strong women.
In fact, nowadays you have to be! Certainly the women here are not typical Roman Matronas
considering that we take part in the government, etc.

<To show them that though women were

> under the influence of the men of the family, that they too had a duty to be
> strong and powerful and influencial as well. I don't know...Any suggestions or
> anyone know what the proper etiquettes for a matrona were? Help is appreciated.

I think that you are worried too much about rules and regulations. Just be yourself and well if no
one likes that, it is too bad for them!

Vale and hang in there!
Diana Moravia

Salve Drusus,
maybe you don't know the laws of other Countries, USA is not
different by the rest of the world ... ;-)

In each Country of the Occidental world there is a similar law for
the incorporation. Trust me.
In Italy an organization, private or public, a society, and
industry, etc. is called "persona giuridica", a man is
called "persona fisica". "Persona" means "person", giuridica
means "juridical" and "fisica" means "natural". The adjectives
change but they are even a person.
So in Italy what you call "fictional person" is called "persona
giuridica" and it have the same duties, rights and basic laws of a
natural person. Everywhere in Europe is similar!

The International Red Cross (not the national) in USA is the same of
the ONG in Italy, Spain and Swiss because it's a ONG and the USA
recognizes the ONG like an over-Nation organization.
In each countries there is a national Red Cross following the local
laws but it depends by th2 International ONG.
Why for USA is different? Trust me, it's the same, I studied it at
university.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> No I'm not mistaken, I may have failed to make myself clear

however.

>
> The International Red Cross does NOT operate in the United States,
> outside of UN related affairs that are only conducted in New York

and

> which are covered by the UN treaty.
>
> The American Red Cross handles all of the functions of the Red

Cross

> movement in the United States under special provisions of US law.
> These provisions are NOT open to other groups. It is legally
> impossible for Nova Roma to operate like the Red Cross in the

United

> States.
>
> Incorporation in the United states creates a legal entity, in

essance

> a fictional "person" named Nova Roma. This fictional "person" has

many

> of the rights that a real person. or as the law terms it a "Natural
> Person" has. The entity Nova Roma has the right to own properity

like

> the land in Texas. If the fictional person didn't exist that land
> would have to be owned by a natural person, a member of Nova Roma
> would hold the tittle, and if he left the organization he would

retain

> that title. The fictional person can own money, the taxes that Nova
> Roma collects. If the fictional person didn't exist the money would
> have to be held by a natural person, who would have to declare it

on

> his taxes as income, and that money would be under the sole

control of

> the person that recived it. The same situation applies to the

domain

> names that Nova Roma owns, to the Trademarks, and to the

copyrights on

> the Website. If we didn't have the fictional person created by
> incorporation, then all these things would be owned by real people,
> who would have personal control over them rather than having them
> owned by the Nova Roma.
>
> Are you willing to send money to an indiviual rather than to Nova
> Roma? Are you willing to have an indiviual own the rights to any

work

> you do on behalf of Nova Roma? That is the situation we would be

in if

> incorporation hadn't created the legal fiction of an entity named

Nova

> Roma.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
> <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> > Salve Drusus,
> >
> > > The information that local Red Cross groups have to
> > > follow the laws of the nation they are operating in is
> > > correct.
> >
> > Again your informations are not correct, the national Red Cross'
> > organizations have to follow the local laws but the

INternational

> > Red Cross is an ONG and it's a world association in Swiss.
> > The costitution of an ONG permit it to be "over-Nations" because
> > recognized by all the Nations.

Salve Senator Sicini Druse,

I share your anxiety when it comes to potential legal weakness of our dear
Nation. I cannot understand however why you seem so opposed to any kind of
proposal where citizens of our world could at least try to look for
alternatives in making Nova Roma a more international entity. Can't we at
least give it a try and study our options ? Can't we at least have a dream
of a greater, better Roma ? A roma that is not reduced only to an
incorporating number in some administrative office...

I know caution is to be paramount, but please sir, can we at least try ?

Optime vale

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

Salve Marine,

A sensible ans complete answer, thank you. Then again I didn't expect less
from you ;-)

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: gawne@... [mailto:gawne@...]On Behalf Of
Bill Gawne
Sent: 20 November 2003 23:26
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] How I am going to choose my consul...


Salvete quirites, et salve Laureatus Armoricus,

Laureatus Armoricus asked:

> What do the candidates intend to do about the unhistorical Gens situation?
>
> Do you want to wait and see? Do you want to tackle the issue hard on the
> head?

I can only speak for this candidate, though I will say that everything
I saw in Gnaeus Salix Astur's reply agrees with my overall position on
the issue.

I have been looking into the ahistorical gens situation for years now.
It's something that I discussed with Flavius Vedius Germanicus when he
was Consul. I know that it is an issue with deep roots and one that
many citizens feel very strongly about.

Our gens system *must* change. The original system that was put in place
when Nova Roma was formed smacks of role-playing, though some gentes have
managed to use it well despite its limitations. If I may be forgiven a
conceit, I think gens Equitia is one of those. I have formed strong ties
within Equitia, and have no wish to ever change my Nova Roman name or
do anything to detract from the dignitas of the Equitia. But as we move
into the future we must recognize those *real* paterfamilias, such as
myself, who are not currently accorded that status by our laws. We must
also provide means to recognize familia, both familia of blood and
familia of choice.

I hasten to add that Gens Reform, while an important issue that must
be addressed within the coming year, is not our most pressing issue. Our
most pressing issue is that of overcoming the barriers of distance which
prevent us from knowing the faces of our fellow citizens. While it is
beyond the means of most of us to come together in one place, we can
do much in small groups. Local groups, where Nova Romans visit face to
face with one another, will improve our sense of nationhood no end.
Regional and provincial events will build on those small group efforts.
I'm more interested in seeing 20 citizens from my province spending a
few hours together where we can just *be* Nova Romans than I am in
the idea I've seen put forth of having the Senate all meet in some
particular physical location.

The internet has been a wonderful thing for us, and I hope that we will
always have our mailing lists as a means of communication. But I hope
fervently that we can make the mailing lists an adjunct that will allow
us to maintain the relationships that we cement in our in-person meetings.
One weekend spent at Roman Days, even in the pouring rain, was better than
a year of online communication as far as building an understanding of my
fellow citizens there. One evening in a resturant with fellow citizens
from my province did more than a year of reading the provincial mailing
list. I hope that as many of us as possible can share in that experience,
and I will work to make it so.

It is true that Consuls are law-givers, and I will legislate. But far
more importantly, Consuls are leaders. Leadership is what Nova Roma
needs most next year, and leadership is what I will provide.

I hope that answers your question to your full satisfaction. Please
let me know, either here in the mailing list or via private e-mail, if
you have any more questions for me.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus


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Salve candidate Salix Astur,

Thank you for your answer; I am glad you have identified one of our nation's
weak point.
May I, in turn, comment on one of your sentences ?

You said :

"if we actually try to discuss about this issue from the very
beginning and avoiding falling in the same mistakes, we might reach a
solution, an agreement that will satisfy the different factions."

Although I do appreciate your diplomatic skills in bringing different
opinions together, I have to wonder why and how we can satisfy different
"factions" : What is there to discuss and to accomodate these "factions" ? A
gens is composed of so many families each headed by a pater/materfamilias;
There were no pater/mater gentis in ancient Rome, were there ?
I fail to see why we should try to reach a compromise (and to whose benefit
?) on something so obvious.

Please do not take my comments too harshly : This particular subject is dear
to me and I tend to be somehow passionate about it.

Respectfully

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@...]
Sent: 20 November 2003 20:34
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: How I am going to choose my consul...


Salvete Quirites; et salve, Laureate Armorice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:

> Salvete quirites,
>
> Now that we have three excellent candidates, some even more
> excellent, I mean good looking, than others (wink,wink soror !)

Oh, thank you, thank you.
Although I do not understand why you are calling me "soror".
;-).

> I do have a question that will in my mind decide who I am going to
> vote for :
>
> What do the candidates intend to do about the unhistorical Gens
> situation ?
>
> Do you want to wait and see ? Do you want to tackle the issue hard
> on the head ? Quod dicitis candidati ?

I am going to say the proverbial "I am happy to hear that question"
:-). In fact, I was going to talk about that on a later message, but
since you have presented the issue, I might as well reply to you
right away.

I think that Nova Roma should strive to follow the Mos Maiorum as
much as possible. After all, bringing back "the best of Rome" is what
we are about. And I think that our current gens system is
unhistorical, and that it creates many unnecessary problems. I think
that it should be changed.

The problem is that this particular issue has been the source of much
controversy in the past, perhaps far more than necessary. I think
that, if we actually try to discuss about this issue from the very
beginning and avoiding falling in the same mistakes, we might reach a
solution, an agreement that will satisfy the different factions.

In practical terms, what am I talking about? I would like to have a
*private* debate with representatives of each position concerned. I
would act as moderator of such a debate, to avoid emotions from
overwhelming rational perspectives. And I would draft, with the
results of that debate, a final legislative proposal to bring ou gens
system closer to its Roman traditional counterpart.

What do you think about that idea? :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR



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Salve amico mio,
Non ti preoccupare, noi siamo insieme.
I believe there are many here that are more against this than for it.
I can't believe that one who presents the true Roman virtues would be
kicked out as a minor while there are those adults remain who portray
the ideal sophomoric attitude.
Have faith in the system of government and in the gods.
Ci parliamo un altra volta,
Justinian

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I would like to take a poll. Who is for banning minors from
Nova Roma. I
> find it ridiculous that you wish to expel me and all others under
18 whom are
> lovers of Roma. I think this is a horrible proposal Senator L.
Sicinius
> Drusus. Any way I am very curious who is for or against banning all
minors. Please I
> don't want to leave Roma. My whole life is revolved around Roma.
There are
> not many minors out there whom admire Roma. Please I am very
curious about who
> is for or against. Thank you.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scriboni,

I second Marinus and apparently most other citizens do as well. The new law is against the minors becoming citizens of Nova Roma but it clearly states that the ones who are already citizens will stay so. Not granting someone citizenship, for many reasons, most of which are based on macronational laws, is one thing; kicking out those who are already citizens is another. I think it's against any kind of law anyway. Once you're a citizen you have certain rights and those rights are the ones that were bestowed upon you when you became a citizen. If the law changes AFTERWARDS, that does NOT affect you. I share your concern, but then I'm pretty sure that a law like that would never pass.

I remember Apollonius Draco, from the first years of NR and although he was way under 18 at the time, he had all the enthusiasm, and more and had worked very hard for Nova Roma. Age does not mean everything, there are people who are in their midyears and still don't know how to behave.

In short, I am against the proposal wholeheartedly.


Vale,

Hiera Cassia

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................


Salve Gnae Scriboni,

You wrote:
> I am very curious who is for or against banning all minors.

I'm very much against such an idea. I've had the honor of
working with Spurius Postumius Tubertus this past year, and
although he is a minor citizen by age, he is one of Nova Roma's
most dedicated and active citizens.

Vale,

-- Marinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Saturninus,

> This is really great news for Nova Roma: we have now two most
> excellent candidates for consuls!

> Citizens, I recommend you to vote for these candidates because they
> have the skills, dedication and character to steer our respoublica
> into bright future!

Hey now, it's not a problem for me that you support my competitors, but you could have at least
mentioned how nice I was to you when I made your hotel arrangements in Belgium and that I changed
them for you 6 times without complaining :-) (The people at the Hotel Schoofs still role their eyes
at me when they see me!) Or that I organized the entire Nova Roma Rally 2755 for you with pleasure.
Or that I translated for everyone the entire week. Or that I have nice teeth or some sort of
honorable mention. Jeez :-(((

But good luck to you in your bid for Quastor. I am sure that if you win, you'll make a fine one!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Candidate for Consul

Salve Aule Apolloni,

> The problem, as I understand it, with that idea is
> that over the years of Nova Roma's existence
> governors
> have each developed their own structures and
> hierarchies, making it very hard and very disruptive
> to try to attach any particular job title to these
> ranks - what to one governor may be a top-level job
> may to another be middling in importance.

Surely this is an argument FOR introducing greater
regularity across the provinces, yet this law may
infact compound the problem. You are introducing a
four tier system with no recommendations as to how it
should be implemented. A little criteria in the form
of recommendations may go a long way to help make the
allocation of century points across the provinces a
great deal fairer.

> Moreover,
> one province may have officers whose jobs don't
> exist
> in other provinces, being specially adapted to local
> needs - thus the law would have to specify an almost
> endless list of titles.

Not necessarily. I'm only arguing for recommendations
and guidelines. I agree totally that a degree of
flexibility should be maintained. Only common titles
need be listed. Governors will then have the
discretion to match any uncommon titles against those
listed. Again, recommendations will actually help in
this regard.

> It's important to remember that, though each
> governor
> will have discretion in deciding what rank
> corresponds
> to which particular officers in his or her province,
> supervision will be exercised both by the watchful
> eye
> of the general public and, more systematically, by
> the
> Senate. I trust that significant discrepancies
> between
> provinces would soon be spotted and rectified.

This appears to me a prevention vs cure predicament.
Simple guidelines would do a great deal to help reduce
such discrepancies.

> In the end the consul decided it
> would be best to go ahead with the simple plan of
> 'trust the senate and the governors to make it
> work',
> and I think this that's a sound base to lay down at
> this stage.

The trust is appreciated. However, I'm not advocating
provincial positions be set in stone. Merely that
guidelines and recommendations are provided so that we
governors may act with greater assurance when
appointing provincial officials.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.



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Salve Lucius Pompeius,

> Salvete omnes.
> I am very glad that my colleague Diana Moravia Aventina is running for the Consulship. I can tell

as one of her colleagues that she is really hard working and skillfull . She proved to be the most
active Tribune of this year and performed her duties with intelligence, so she honored to those
cives who voted for her as Tribune. So I urge all the novaroman citizens to vote for Diana Moravia
Aventina as Consul

> Habeas fortunam optimam Diana!!!

I have to say that I have recieved a lot of support emails and have read a lot of them here. But
coming from you-- one of my colleagues is very special to me!!
Thank you!

Vale & may the Gods bless you and yours!

Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Candidate for Consul 2757

Salve, Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor -

Scaevola said:

> Please, Amice... pay it no mind. If Nova Roma was to ever deteriorate to
> the point where it did something that horribly discriminatory, it would
> become so repulsive that most people here would have left it long
> before.

I agree with what Scaevola said above. Don't worry about it.
Citizens are free to say how they feel here about new lexes-- and we all do-- with great enthusiasm.

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salve,

Altough I haven't read this conversation right from the beginning,
some remarks about the Finnish law for non-profit-organisations.

If you want to register NPO in Finland it needs to have 50% of the
board members with Finnish nationality, _unless_ the organisation
pleas exemption by this from the trade- and industry ministery. I do
not know statistics how many such NPO's there is but some time ago
when I asked about the impression of this at the registration office
they said that it is mostly a formality, i.e. the exemption is easy
to get if the organisation can produce rational reason why they need
it. The cost of registering the organisation is 60 Euro and there is
no fees after it. You don't need to pay taxes if you get exemption
form the tax officials and in that you need to prove that it is
not-for-profit organisation. More information might be found on this
at the registration office website English version at
http://www.prh.fi

Vale,

>Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:36:29 -0500
> From: Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
>
>Salvete, omnes -
>
>(snip)


> > Why not move NR in Swiss to have a neutral and Not-governative
>> organization?
>> I hope to give you all other informations about the ONGs.
>
>This is an idea worth considering, although my initial thought in this
>regard was aimed more toward Finland, or possibly - given Titus Octavius
>Pius' mini-expository :) - Sweden. Even though this particular instance
>has little or nothing to do with legal exposure, there are other areas
>in which NR is restricted or hindered by the US legal system (to be more
>precise, the ways in which it is possible to abuse the US legal system.)
>
>However, as in a number of other legal entities - e.g., a foreign
>Limited Liability Company - something like this usually requires a local
>representative. The obvious question, then, becomes - which of the board
>members wants to move to Finland/Sweden/Switzerland/wherever? Or,
>conversely, which Nova Roman in the country of choice gets to "suffer"
>the instant elevation to board membership?
>
>The cost of incorporation isn't likely to be very high. As an example, I
>can create a foreign LLC (Canary Islands) for between a hundred and two
>hundred bucks a year.
>
>It would be interesting to hear what concerns or objections the board
>members themselves might have with regard to this.
>
>
>Valete,
>Caius Minucius Scaevola

--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus [declared for Rogator]

Excellent! You've been a fine contributor to the Republic since you came
to Nova Roma, and I'm sure you'll be a fine Rogator. You and Cordus both
are going to be a fine addition to the team of vote-countersl

You've got my vote!

-- Marinus

Lucius Sicinius Drusus replied to me:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Is there a guide to augury available anywhere in our web pages?
> > I know that in its fullest form it is an art requiring much
> > study and practice, but perhaps these general things could be
> > made available for the Citizenry At Large to review.
> >
>
> Currently there isn't one available on our site. Smiths has a fair
> article on the subject that covers some of the basics.
>
> http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Augurium.html

Thank you Lucius Sicinius. That's an *excellent* introduction to the art.
I hope somebody will at least link to it from the Religio pages.

-- Marinus

Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus,

Thank you for your clear and concise answer.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
>
> > I have a question.
>
> I have an answer!
>
> > What made you change your mind and
> > disregard the mos maiorum on the matter of continuatio?
>
> Mostly the entreaty of a number of people who are strongly invested
> in Nova Roma and who have approached me privately about seeking the
> Consulship. These are people I've known and worked with for some
> years now, and with whom I feel a strong sense of shared purpose.
>
> I have been persuaded that right now, Nova Roma does not adhere to
> the mos maiorum on the matter of continuatio. I think it should,
> and I'd like to see a requirement in our laws encoding this practice
> which was once the rule before the time of Gaius Marius. But I have
> to be realistic, and recognize that if nobody else is going to
> voluntarily follow the practice, it would be about as useful to
> me as unilateral disarmament would have been to Rome.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Fine, go ahead and have a poll, be sure to include where the funds are
going to come from if we find ourselves involved in a Civil action due
to Parenatl Consent, To failure to comply with COOPA or with some
other law.

"Protecting" Minors on the internet is a popular political buzz
phrase. The Laws regarding this matter are rapidly evolving. That is a
matter that I have to be concerned with as a member of the BoD of Nova
Roma Inc. I don't have the freedom of not considering where we will
get the funding if we have legal costs involved with granting
membership to minors. I Don't have the freedom of not considering the
steps we have to take to insure that we are in compliance with rapidly
changing laws of over 24 nations and political subdivisions within
those nations.

A Private citizen can take a feelgood approach to granting citizenship
to minors. I Can't. I Have the responsibility of dealing with the
legal consequances that may come from it.

Now I have some tough questions for the canidates who want to take on
that responsibility.

What measures will you employ to raise the funds to pay for a legal
defense if Nova Roma is involved in a Civil action?

What procedures will you impliment to insure that Nova Roma is in
compliance with laws protecting the privacy of Minors?

What Procedures will you implement to insure that Nova Roma is in
compliance with laws regarding a Parents request for information
regarding thier Minor child?

L. Sicinius Drusus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve, Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor -
>
> Scaevola said:
> > Please, Amice... pay it no mind. If Nova Roma was to ever

deteriorate to

> > the point where it did something that horribly discriminatory, it

would

> > become so repulsive that most people here would have left it long
> > before.
>
> I agree with what Scaevola said above. Don't worry about it.
> Citizens are free to say how they feel here about new lexes-- and we

all do-- with great enthusiasm.

>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia

>
> I am, however, unclear as to whether those who are
> not sui iuris
> would be allowed to vote. I think that, as in both
> the macronational
> world today and in Ancient Rome, there should be a
> minimum voting age.
> Furthermore, I personnaly feel that if an individual
> is not legally
> free to make their own life-decisisions (that is, is
> not sui iuris),
> then they should not vote, whether it be in Nova
> Roma or in their
> macronation.
>
>
>

The current Constituion explicitly grants the right
to vote in the Comitiae to citizens who have attained
18 years. Absent a declaration from a Nova Roman
judicial proceeding suspending that right, no citizen
over 18 may be deprived of it.

The Constituion currently does not grant the right
to vote to minors, but leaves it in the discretion of
Nova Roma's legislative procedure to grant it or not.

If this proposal is adopted, the Constitution would
explicitly prohibit minors from exercising the right
to vote in the comitia.

Lucius Quintius Constantius

__________________________________
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--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...> wrote:

> Salve, Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor -
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 05:59:24AM -0500,
> Scriboni89@... wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > I would like to take a poll. Who is for
> banning minors from Nova Roma. I
> > find it ridiculous that you wish to expel me and
> all others under 18 whom are
> > lovers of Roma. I think this is a horrible
> proposal Senator L. Sicinius
> > Drusus. Any way I am very curious who is for or
> against banning all minors. Please I
> > don't want to leave Roma. My whole life is
> revolved around Roma. There are
> > not many minors out there whom admire Roma. Please
> I am very curious about who
> > is for or against. Thank you.
>
> Please, Amice... pay it no mind. If Nova Roma was to
> ever deteriorate to
> the point where it did something that horribly
> discriminatory, it would
> become so repulsive that most people here would have
> left it long
> before. Don't let it concern you; note its source,
> and discount it
> accordingly.

LOL

As repulsive as the yipping attack poodle?

Nah! That's impossible.

LSD ;-)


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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--- daniel villanueva <danielovi@...> wrote:

>
> Tribunus Plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Quiritibus SPD
>
>
>
>
> ITEM 1. Encouragement to invite, find and train
> potential augurs
>
> For the encouraging of the enlargment of the
> Collegium Augurum in order to have more augurs.
>
> -----------------

Constantius: I welcome the Senate's taking this matter
into consideration. I would hope that we would have
at least 3 augurs by the end of next year. But I
can't offer my services in this since I am not a
practitioner of the Religio myself.

>
>
>
> ITEM 2. Senatus Consultum de Agnoscitione Fetiali
> (Senatus Consultum
> on Diplomatic Recognition)
>
> A Senatus Consultum that will replace an old text on
> foregin policy by a new one.
>
> ---------------------

Constantius: I think a better explanation of this item
is needed. What is the old policy? What is the
proposed change?

>
> ---------------------
>
>
>
> ITEM 4. Tthe Senate Communications Commission
>
>
> For a better communication line between the Senate
> and the people.
>
>
> ------------------------------------

Constantius: I'd like a fuller explanation of this
one too.

>
>
> ITEM 5. New Plebeian Aedile
>
> No candiate has appeared to take this position until
> the 31st of December.
> This position will be left empty until the next
> Senate meeting.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
>

Constantius: I believe the Consul can withdraw this
matter. Three candidates for plebeian aedile have
come forward.

> ------------------------------------------
>
> > ITEM 9. The Budget for 2757 A.U.C.
>
> -------------------------------------------
>

Constantius: I assume the proposed budget will be
presented in the public lists before the Senate begins
consideration in this matter.

I still think that one thing the Senate needs to
consider is a revamping of its rules dealing with
quorum. It seems that some sort of revision is
necessary to keep the Senate from getting completely
bogged down.

I was hoping one of this year's consul would
address this matter. Perhaps the candidates for
consul next year would like to address their position
on this.

Lucius Quintius Constantius


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I Have been trying to make Nova Roma more
international for Years. That is why I wrote the law
on Translators that Sulla promulgated. That is why I
have been advocating incorporation in other nations
starting with the EU and have been doing so for over
two years. That is why I first advocated the indexing
of taxes for different nations in 2001 when taxes were
first approved. That is why I'm still advocating the
collection of taxes in Euros for European citizens and
having the funds remain in a European account. I have
been calling for these things for years.

I Have actually looked into the legal situation
instead of just guessing about what we can and can't
do.

We are not and never will be above the laws of any
nation we operate in. It dosen't matter if we are
incorparated in Maine, in the EU, or in Timbaktu. It
dosen't matter if we call ourselves a Nation, a
Micronation, a Religion, an international association,
or any other label. We are still subject to the laws
of any nation that we operate in.

Nothing short of a nation signing a treaty with Nova
Roma granting us extraterritorial rights is going to
change that fact. The chances of that happening rank
right up there with the chances of me winning the
Lotto every week for the next year.

I want to make Nova Roma as international as is
legally possible and is also consistant with our
mission of being a restoration of Roma, which includes
keeping the organization unified rather than being a
group of independant or semi-indepebdant
organizations.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- Laureatus Armoricus
<laureatusarmoricus@...> wrote:

> Salve Senator Sicini Druse,
>
> I share your anxiety when it comes to potential
> legal weakness of our dear
> Nation. I cannot understand however why you seem so
> opposed to any kind of
> proposal where citizens of our world could at least
> try to look for
> alternatives in making Nova Roma a more
> international entity. Can't we at
> least give it a try and study our options ? Can't we
> at least have a dream
> of a greater, better Roma ? A roma that is not
> reduced only to an
> incorporating number in some administrative
> office...
>
> I know caution is to be paramount, but please sir,
> can we at least try ?
>
> Optime vale
>
> Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
> "To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a
> nail"
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Lucius Sicinius Drusus asked:

> Now I have some tough questions for the canidates who want to take on
> that responsibility.
>
> What measures will you employ to raise the funds to pay for a legal
> defense if Nova Roma is involved in a Civil action?
>
> What procedures will you impliment to insure that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with laws protecting the privacy of Minors?
>
> What Procedures will you implement to insure that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with laws regarding a Parents request for information
> regarding thier Minor child?

I will propose a Senatus Consultum to obtain a legal opinion, either
pro bono or for cost, on Nova Roma's legal exposure to these matters.
Furthermore, I will include funds in the budget I submit next year
to cover annual legal consultation fees. Once we have a proper
legal opinion issued by competent authority, we will proceed from
that point to take such steps as may be needed to deal with any
problems our legal counsel identifies, and if necessary obtain
additional legal counsel in those of our provinces which the
initial findings identify as possibly problematical.

I will not be swayed by either the doom-sayers or those who would
prefer the ostrich approach. Thus far, the only legal opinion I've
seen expressed on these questions has come from Agricola, who as
a lawyer assured us that the risk is slight. But he didn't provide
that as his official finding, and therefore I'm treating it as
annecdotal rather than certain.

-- Marinus

Salve Franciscus,

> I understood reading after your intentions. But I suggest you to
> think about again this way, someone could think you're not so
> serious to be a Consul.

If they know me they know that I always do my job seriously, but that I like to laugh a bit at the
same time. If there are citiznes that don't like my style (so to speak) then of course there are two
other candidates to choose from :-)

> mmhhmmm ... so the laws by Labienus are your models.

Precisely.

>What do you
> think about the laws published during the last year?

I think that I made my opinions about those laws quite clear at the time. Some I liked, some of them
I really liked and some of them I didn't like.

< Quintilianus

> and Salix Astur proposed very important and new and "reformating" (I
> hope the word in english is correct ;-) laws. What do you think
> about them?

They don't need to be "tidied up" because the English is perfectly clear. But there are laws with
double-talk sentences or in weird pseudo-legalese English that even I am not clear on what the
sentence means.

> This is one of the most important problem of the Consul, I wish you
> good nights in the future ... ;-)

LOL! No problem, I am a night person anyway :-))

> Yes you agree but do you think this is primary for you? Maybe a
> Scriba or a Quaestor or an Accensus could to do it in collaboration
> with the Curator Araneum. I think a Consul, THE boss of our
> organization, must to think to most important contents like the
> organization, new and good laws, the "health and humour" of the
> population, the increasing of NR in the macro-life and the evolution
> to a big and world association.

Of course. I won't do everything single-handedly. I'll have assistants.

> Our goal is only to become a macronation?

Isn't that the main goal of the future to drag us all off this virtual world and into the real one?
You are against being a micronation? I'm surprised at that since you were present at the Rally of
2756 you know how important personal contact with other citizens is! One day is worth a thousand
emails.

<And what do you think about NR as the most important world forum, an international

> organization able to create and manage project?

With *maybe* 100 active citizens how can we even contemplate being the the world's most important
forum?

<what about our credit and importance in the istitutional and academical world?

This was part of Caeso Fabius' Financial Plan of last year that never saw the light of day and he
couldn't accomplish it with a staff of 25. And again, Nova Roma now has 1063 registered citizens and
maybe 100 are active and a small handful are academics. I think that we will need to get a lot
bigger in order to becaome accredited in the institutional and academic world. We have to get the
Provincial Governors to do some serious recruiting!

>What about the recruitment campaign in each Provincia?

<What about the recruitment of recognized" experts like professors and

> archeologists and reserachers?

Good suggestion! The Provincial Governors would be the most qualified people to recruit new citizens
and recognized experts in their respective areas.

> Good, it's a good idea and I agree, it's not primary ;-)
> What will be your aka? Diana, the writer? ... Sorry, it's a joke ;-)

Hey now, I am a writer!! I have even gotten paid! I have a university degree in English creative
writing (with minors in business administration & accounting). I write mostly humorous fantasy
(Terry Pratchett stole my style!!) as you can see from my fantasy version of the NR rally which was
in the Roman times or my 'Diana versus the Killer Mole from Hell" which is now online for your
enjoyment at the www.paganworld.tk website :-)

< I love the ancient idea of "homo novus", but sometimes our cirtizens

> seem to be too ambitious and to forget the importance and the
> meaning of the Cursus Honorum.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that you mean to say 'you are not experienced enough to
be Consul". Well, I don't see how a Curule Aedile (Gneaus Equitius Marinus since you are making
comparisons) is more qualified than me, a Tribune. An Aedile only organize *games* in NR and a
Tribune sits in the Senate. Unless Marinus is recieving emails from the Senate list (which would be
breaking Seante confidentiality-- a thing he would not be involved in) then I certainly have a
better idea of exactly what the job entails since I sit in the Senate and 'hear' every word said.
Gnaeus Salix Astur also sits I the Senate and so I believe that he too knows exactly what is in
store for him if he wins! BUT whether the Consul candidates are now Praetores, Aediles or Tribunes,
there 'work' record in NR should speak louder than the title they now hold. And I have done a lot of
work this year as the two above mentioned gentlemen have.

> Of course the Religio is in the "hands" of our Illustri Pontefices.
> But someone said me in the past that the Religio must to have an
> great importance in the politics and the Magistrates must to be the
> first defender and promoter of teh Religio. If it's correct, the
> Consul could give a central importance to the Religio.

That is exactly what I mean. And I plan on consulting the Collegium Pontificium a great deal.

> I read the financial plan and it was very very good. Unlucky the co-
> creator (Scipio) of this project is not active now for the reasons
> that we know. But it was a very good plan.

It is a good plan and Scipio worked very hard on it. I was there when he did since I worked with him
on Caeso's campaign for Consul last year.

> I wish you good luck!

Thanks!

Diana Moravia
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Candidate for Consul 2757

Salve Senator Drusus,
thi sis my personal opinion like a private citizen and first of all
like a little member of an incorporation.
I want to say you thank you for your efforts and job in the last
year, I agree with you, Nova Roma is growed and became a bit more
international.
But this is normal because the number of the not-americans is
increasing as high as fast. Our biggest Provincia is Mediatlantica
and it have 220 citizens. But the second Provincia is Italia with
216 citizens ... We have to think about an organization more
international.
Confidentially I read in your posts that you don't want understand
this situation: Nova Roma is not american like 4 years ago. We ave
215 citizens in Italy, 135 in Spain, 100 in South America, etc.
We have not to decide now in what NR have to become, but we can
start a serious and neutral analysis of what is NR now.
Maybe the State of Maine is not more enough and NR need a
biggest "humus" and capital. What I mean is that maybe we could
start to think NR not like a national incorporation but a world
organization ... this is a natural evolution in my personal opinion.
I agree with you when you say that we're not the Red Cross or
another giant organization which is really international and over
the laws and recognized by everybody. We haven't a so capillar and
organized structure, we aren't "recognized" and we haven't so big
credits.
But maybe we have now to think about what State give more advantages
and legal protection. I don't know the Maine but reading the posts
of you all I'm thinking that maybe this is not the best place to
have NR (please, don't be hurted, I don't know teh Maine, I'm only
reading your messages :-). Maybe now we have to think about another
american state or a Country out of USA, in Europe or South-America.
This place must to give us clear and important advantages in the
majority of our fields. What do you think?

I'm very sorry to see so many attacks against you and please don't
take mine like personal attacks. I'm only inviting you to think
about, maybe you have too fears before to analyze the different
solutions. Maybe your fears involve the others to think that you're
even pessimistic and "closed in the Maine". So, please, take this
words as teh words of a fellow citizens and as my personal opinions
and suggestions. If you don't like them, please forget this message.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> I Have been trying to make Nova Roma more
> international for Years. That is why I wrote the law
> on Translators that Sulla promulgated. That is why I
> have been advocating incorporation in other nations
> starting with the EU and have been doing so for over
> two years. That is why I first advocated the indexing
> of taxes for different nations in 2001 when taxes were
> first approved. That is why I'm still advocating the
> collection of taxes in Euros for European citizens and
> having the funds remain in a European account. I have
> been calling for these things for years.
>
> I Have actually looked into the legal situation
> instead of just guessing about what we can and can't
> do.
>
> We are not and never will be above the laws of any
> nation we operate in. It dosen't matter if we are
> incorparated in Maine, in the EU, or in Timbaktu. It
> dosen't matter if we call ourselves a Nation, a
> Micronation, a Religion, an international association,
> or any other label. We are still subject to the laws
> of any nation that we operate in.
>
> Nothing short of a nation signing a treaty with Nova
> Roma granting us extraterritorial rights is going to
> change that fact. The chances of that happening rank
> right up there with the chances of me winning the
> Lotto every week for the next year.
>
> I want to make Nova Roma as international as is
> legally possible and is also consistant with our
> mission of being a restoration of Roma, which includes
> keeping the organization unified rather than being a
> group of independant or semi-indepebdant
> organizations.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- Laureatus Armoricus
> <laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:
> > Salve Senator Sicini Druse,
> >
> > I share your anxiety when it comes to potential
> > legal weakness of our dear
> > Nation. I cannot understand however why you seem so
> > opposed to any kind of
> > proposal where citizens of our world could at least
> > try to look for
> > alternatives in making Nova Roma a more
> > international entity. Can't we at
> > least give it a try and study our options ? Can't we
> > at least have a dream
> > of a greater, better Roma ? A roma that is not
> > reduced only to an
> > incorporating number in some administrative
> > office...
> >
> > I know caution is to be paramount, but please sir,
> > can we at least try ?
> >
> > Optime vale
> >
> > Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
> > "To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a
> > nail"
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/

Salve,

Thank all who wrote back. I guess I was just scared because I did not
want to not be apart of Nova Roma. Also Senator Drusus, I do not know what to
tell you about the funds if you find your self in "Civil Action". I just disagree
with you about your banning minors. I feel we all should be allowed and
welcomed to join Nova Roma. We are all ancestors of Roma. Also to the one whom
wrote about the "typical" American teen. Not every teen is like that. You should
not be so stereotypical. I doubt even any teen whom would have such a great
love of Roma would be so dumb and foolish. You make it sound like teens are the
worst thing since Osama. I go to high school with over 1500 teens and yes there
are some rotten apples in the bunch but many teens I know are quite
intelligent and have a good idea of what they want to do and what they believe. Thank
you.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I am very much against banning minors (or any other class/group for
that matter) from citizenship. We are supposed to be in the business
of Nation Building here. What good is a nation that has no youth?
Yes, (some) teens can be a royal pain in the rear at times; it goes
with the energy, ideas, enthusiasm (and yes, hormones) of those ages.
However, would any nation really want to throw the baby out with the
bath water? Any real, viable state needs its youth. We need the
energy and enthusiasm and we very much need the tendency to question
just about everything, especially authority. A republic, if it is to
survive as such, needs people who will question its authority and
youth are very good at that.

Vale,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I would like to take a poll. Who is for banning minors from
Nova Roma. I
> find it ridiculous that you wish to expel me and all others under
18 whom are
> lovers of Roma. I think this is a horrible proposal Senator L.
Sicinius
> Drusus. Any way I am very curious who is for or against banning all
minors. Please I
> don't want to leave Roma. My whole life is revolved around Roma.
There are
> not many minors out there whom admire Roma. Please I am very
curious about who
> is for or against. Thank you.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 07:51:30PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
>
> It IS possible that if Nova Roma, as a whole, was to be registered as a
> swedish organisation, we'd be able to start claiming "benefits" for all
> members, including foreign ones, but again, don't quote me on that. I'll
> write a mail to SVEROK and ask them about their rules in particular.
>
> (Ponderings: 1000 members, 40SEK a piece, 2000SEK base...that's 42k, or
> about $5000US, yearly. *drools a little* Off I go to ask them kindly.)

That _would_ cast an additional interesting light on the situation. Not
that $5k/year is a staggering sum, but it would be an indication that
the government is supportive of organizations such as Nova Roma in other
ways. I'd certainly be interested in hearing about what the SVEROK
response is.


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas es.
Knowledge is power.
-- Sir Francis Bacon

Salve Diana,
thank you again for your answers!

> > I understood reading after your intentions. But I suggest you to
> > think about again this way, someone could think you're not so
> > serious to be a Consul.
>
> If they know me they know that I always do my job seriously, but

that I like to laugh a bit at the

> same time.

Yes I know and Ilike it :-)

> If there are citiznes that don't like my style (so to speak) then

of course there are two

> other candidates to choose from :-)

Of course, it's a right of each citizen ;-P

> > mmhhmmm ... so the laws by Labienus are your models.
> Precisely.

> >What do you
> > think about the laws published during the last year?
>
> I think that I made my opinions about those laws quite clear at

the time. Some I liked, some of them

> I really liked and some of them I didn't like.

Could say me what laws you liked? Please, feel free to not answer or
answer me privately to this question.

> < Quintilianus
> > and Salix Astur proposed very important and new

and "reformating" (I

> > hope the word in english is correct ;-) laws. What do you think
> > about them?
>
> They don't need to be "tidied up" because the English is perfectly

clear. But there are laws with

> double-talk sentences or in weird pseudo-legalese English that

even I am not clear on what the

> sentence means.

The laws ... and the legalese ... I don't like it ... but sometime
we need it to have more interpratations :-(

> > This is one of the most important problem of the Consul, I wish

you

> > good nights in the future ... ;-)
>
> LOL! No problem, I am a night person anyway :-))

I could prepare cups of italian espresso and chocolate biscuits for
the next Consules if you pay me ;-))

> > Yes you agree but do you think this is primary for you? Maybe a
> > Scriba or a Quaestor or an Accensus could to do it in

collaboration

> > with the Curator Araneum. I think a Consul, THE boss of our
> > organization, must to think to most important contents like the
> > organization, new and good laws, the "health and humour" of the
> > population, the increasing of NR in the macro-life and the

evolution

> > to a big and world association.
>
> Of course. I won't do everything single-handedly. I'll have

assistants.

of course.

> > Our goal is only to become a macronation?
>
> Isn't that the main goal of the future to drag us all off this

virtual world and into the real one?

Of course, but I think this is not our ONLY goal. I think here there
are people don't think NR like a micronation or not follow this
goal. Someon think NR is an international organization too, another
think it's the biggest web forum about Ancient Rome, someone a
community, another one again a role game, etc. There are several
goals and I think that "being a macronation" is not the only now, we
have other goals for the future ... is it?

> You are against being a micronation? I'm surprised at that since

you were present at the Rally of

> 2756 you know how important personal contact with other citizens

is! One day is worth a thousand

> emails.

No no, Diana, I'm not against the micronation, during the night I
dream to walk in a modern forum smilimg to you and my friends ... :-)
Seriously I have the same goal and I try to follow it. And I know
how important the perconal contacts are for NR ... I organized teh
second european Rally and in Italy we have 4-5 meetings per year.

> <And what do you think about NR as the most important world forum,

an international

> > organization able to create and manage project?
>
> With *maybe* 100 active citizens how can we even contemplate being

the the world's most important

> forum?

Sorry, but for me a forum is a place where people talking and
discussing. Are there other places about Ancient Rome in the world
with 2000 users and 600 (the members of this list) active writers?
If there are please give me the address, I would like to enter in
them ;-)
And if my opinion is not correct, could the "world forum" be a goal
of NR?

> <what about our credit and importance in the istitutional and

academical world?

>
> This was part of Caeso Fabius' Financial Plan of last year that

never saw the light of day and he

> couldn't accomplish it with a staff of 25.

I'm sorry, but I'm a member of the staff of Quintilianus and I
accomplished this goal with the project Magna Mater. We met the
Sovrintendenza of Rome and we created a close collaboration with teh
University la Sapienza of Rome. yes, it's a project of my aedilship
but we worked closely with Quintilianus and I have testimonials
coudl say you how many hours we talked in Bologna about it.

> And again, Nova Roma now has 1063 registered citizens and
> maybe 100 are active and a small handful are academics.

Diana, I think you're informations are a bit old... we have _1963_
citizens and I think 500-600 active. When we calculate the active
citizens we have to sum the assiduii, the members of this list, the
members of each provincial list (italian list have 110 members but I
think only 20-30 are members of the main list), etc. i think we
could have a number close to 600.

I think that we will need to get a lot

> bigger in order to becaome accredited in the institutional and

academic world. We have to get the

> Provincial Governors to do some serious recruiting!

But often the provincial governors are not able or can't do it. Yes,
I agree with you but I think there should be teh coordination of the
central government, a common corporate image, common messages, etc.
even looking the local situations.

> >What about the recruitment campaign in each Provincia?
> <What about the recruitment of recognized" experts like

professors and

> > archeologists and reserachers?
>
> Good suggestion! The Provincial Governors would be the most

qualified people to recruit new citizens

> and recognized experts in their respective areas.

I ahree and read up.
For your information, in Italy we're working very well in this field
thanking to the our little Academia Italica. Lucius Iulius Sulla is
contacting several italian experts (5 in 6 months) and the italics
can send them questions about a monthly item. This kinf of
activities make the provincia and citizens more active and skilled
and give to NR a good image outside and permit to present NR in the
academical world.

> > Good, it's a good idea and I agree, it's not primary ;-)
> > What will be your aka? Diana, the writer? ... Sorry, it's a

joke ;-)

>
> Hey now, I am a writer!! I have even gotten paid! I have a

university degree in English creative

> writing (with minors in business administration & accounting). I

write mostly humorous fantasy

> (Terry Pratchett stole my style!!) as you can see from my fantasy

version of the NR rally which was

> in the Roman times or my 'Diana versus the Killer Mole from Hell"

which is now online for your

> enjoyment at the www.paganworld.tk website :-)

Ok, you will be called "Diana, the writer" ;-)

> < I love the ancient idea of "homo novus", but sometimes our

cirtizens

> > seem to be too ambitious and to forget the importance and the
> > meaning of the Cursus Honorum.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that you mean to

say 'you are not experienced enough to

> be Consul". Well, I don't see how a Curule Aedile (Gneaus Equitius

Marinus since you are making

> comparisons) is more qualified than me, a Tribune. An Aedile only

organize *games* in NR and a

> Tribune sits in the Senate. Unless Marinus is recieving emails

from the Senate list (which would be

> breaking Seante confidentiality-- a thing he would not be involved

in) then I certainly have a

> better idea of exactly what the job entails since I sit in the

Senate and 'hear' every word said.

> Gnaeus Salix Astur also sits I the Senate and so I believe that he

too knows exactly what is in

> store for him if he wins! BUT whether the Consul candidates are

now Praetores, Aediles or Tribunes,

> there 'work' record in NR should speak louder than the title they

now hold. And I have done a lot of

> work this year as the two above mentioned gentlemen have.

I correct you because you're wrong. I didn't said you are not
experienced and I think all the 3 candidates of this year are very
good and skilled. But the nova roman cursus honorum is too easy and
someone didn't understood what means accomplish it. In Ancient Rome
it was not possible to jump from Aedile to Consul or from Tribune to
Consul (the tribuneship was very "closed") or to nothing to
Aedile ... During this elections I'm seeing many many citizens
jumping easily to an highest Office and they don't understand that
each step of the cursus honorum is important to take experiences and
knowledge. This is why I don't candidate myself as Praetor or Consul
(yes, I know that maybe it's a stupid idea ... ;-)
But as I said, I like the idea of homo novus like the ecceptional
and random man changing a "stopped" structure. But now we have 3 or
4 or 7 "new men" ... :-)) I don't say that you're not experienced
about laws and Senate, but maybe each of the candidates could have a
bit of more experience in other fields and Offices.

> > Of course the Religio is in the "hands" of our Illustri

Pontefices.

> > But someone said me in the past that the Religio must to have an
> > great importance in the politics and the Magistrates must to be

the

> > first defender and promoter of teh Religio. If it's correct, the
> > Consul could give a central importance to the Religio.
>
> That is exactly what I mean. And I plan on consulting the

Collegium Pontificium a great deal.

good

Vale bene
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Luci Armini.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> US and EU... OK, but don´t forget a growing third pole... Latin
> America, uh? And I hope soon we will have the forth and fifth
> pole... virtual urbe is going to all the orbe...
>
> As many countries we can entablish a serious and legal presence of
> NR, better for the solidness and safety of our institution. Local
> legally recognized provincial governments are the very starting of
> this project.

I couldn't agree more, my friend. Of course, South America is
different in that it is divided in several countries and that
recognition in one country does not automatically mean recognition in
all of them (as it does in the EU, I believe). But yes; with time, we
should get registered at least in Brazil, Mexico and Argentina.

Should I be elected, we can begin the process of registering NR in
Brazil whenever you want. A preliminary study will be necessary, to
know what we have to do and what choices we have to make; but I see
no reason why we should not register there as well.

> A rewarding job indeed for consules, praetores, proconsules and
> propraetores...

Yes, several administrations will have to effectively work together.
And that is great! :-).

CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

The kids are NOT the problem, the adults who want to "protect" the
kids are the problem. They are the ones that file Civil actions. They
are the ones that agitate for laws to "protect" children. They are the
ones that write laws like COOPA, and they are the one who enforce
those laws.

From the USA Federal Trade Commission web site.

"If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to
children under 13 that collects personal information from children or
if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge
that you are collecting personal information from children, you must
comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act."

Admitting minors under the age of 13 creates a legal obligation to
comply with whatever regulations the FTC sets to enforce COOPA, and
since these are regulations the FTC can change them. Government
agencies rarely loosen regulations, the norm is increasing them.

This isn't just a simple matter of let the kids in, it's a matter of
legal consequances that can come from letting the kids in.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Livia Cornelia Hibernia"
<livia_cornelia_hibernia@c...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> I am very much against banning minors (or any other class/group for
> that matter) from citizenship. We are supposed to be in the business
> of Nation Building here. What good is a nation that has no youth?
> Yes, (some) teens can be a royal pain in the rear at times; it goes
> with the energy, ideas, enthusiasm (and yes, hormones) of those ages.
> However, would any nation really want to throw the baby out with the
> bath water? Any real, viable state needs its youth. We need the
> energy and enthusiasm and we very much need the tendency to question
> just about everything, especially authority. A republic, if it is to
> survive as such, needs people who will question its authority and
> youth are very good at that.
>
> Vale,
>
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia
> (Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > I would like to take a poll. Who is for banning minors from
> Nova Roma. I
> > find it ridiculous that you wish to expel me and all others under
> 18 whom are
> > lovers of Roma. I think this is a horrible proposal Senator L.
> Sicinius
> > Drusus. Any way I am very curious who is for or against banning all
> minors. Please I
> > don't want to leave Roma. My whole life is revolved around Roma.
> There are
> > not many minors out there whom admire Roma. Please I am very
> curious about who
> > is for or against. Thank you.
> >
> > BENE.VALE.
> > I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> > ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> > GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> > DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Laureate Armorice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:

> Salve candidate Salix Astur,
>
> Thank you for your answer; I am glad you have identified one of our
> nation's weak point.

Thank you. I try to do my best :-).

> May I, in turn, comment on one of your sentences ?

Of course.

> You said :
>
> "if we actually try to discuss about this issue from the very
> beginning and avoiding falling in the same mistakes, we might reach
> a solution, an agreement that will satisfy the different factions."
>
> Although I do appreciate your diplomatic skills in bringing
> different opinions together, I have to wonder why and how we can
> satisfy different "factions" : What is there to discuss and to
> accomodate these "factions" ? A gens is composed of so many
> families each headed by a pater/materfamilias;
> There were no pater/mater gentis in ancient Rome, were there ?
> I fail to see why we should try to reach a compromise (and to whose
> benefit?) on something so obvious.
>
> Please do not take my comments too harshly : This particular
> subject is dear to me and I tend to be somehow passionate about it.

I understand it very well; it is also an important subject for me,
and I have been discussing it for several years :-).

What do I mean that an agreement is possible? Because, if we leave
overinflated arguments aside, positions are not that far off. Hardly
everyone agrees in how the historical model was. Hardly everyone
agrees that a historical model is more or less desiderable. The
differences are more in the finer details.

This subject has been floating around for a long time. I am
determined to solve it, once and for all. I would also like to make
it as non-traumatic as possible. I am ready to listen to other
people's opinions, and I am ready to consder other people's
suggestions. But my goal is that gentes be allowed to follow the
historical model in a few months from now. And yes; that would mean
gentes composed by different familiae.

CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salvete Omnes,

> Salve Gnae Scriboni,
>
> You wrote:
> > I am very curious who is for or against banning all minors.
>
> I'm very much against such an idea. I've had the honor of
> working with Spurius Postumius Tubertus this past year, and
> although he is a minor citizen by age, he is one of Nova Roma's
> most dedicated and active citizens.

To add to this, Marine, et Quirites, I intend to stay so, and so intend to serve the People however They may need me.

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Civis Privatus

Sp. Postumius Agrippinae Modiae Aureliae et C. Basilicato Agricolae S.P.D.

Si vos vales, benest.

I realize the two of you have met an agreement to disagree on this issue, but I would just like to add my opinion on one issue....

Agrippina Modia, you mentioned the Lacus Magni Gathering of this year (which I would have loved to attend). I can understand your concern for the tax-paying population paying the costs of the Gathering for those citizens who are non-tax-paying. It would be my opinion that no one should be exempt from paying taxes, whatsoever. I personally think taxes should be a required part of citizenship. Though not required to, I paid my own taxes this year, and will next year. However, I conceed the point that most citizens who are not tax-paying would probably just resign citizenship or allow themselves to be simply removed (were that to be the law). Anyway, this opens up another can of worms which I have no desire to handle at this point, as I have a few assignments from the Academia Thules to catch up on.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator L. Sicini.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"

<<snipped>>

> Now I have some tough questions for the canidates who want to take
> on that responsibility.
>
> What measures will you employ to raise the funds to pay for a legal
> defense if Nova Roma is involved in a Civil action?
>
> What procedures will you impliment to insure that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with laws protecting the privacy of Minors?
>
> What Procedures will you implement to insure that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with laws regarding a Parents request for information
> regarding thier Minor child?
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

Even though I consider that the risks you are alerting about are not
too important, I wouldn't mind discussing with you and with those
citizens that are legal experts possible ways to avoid trouble in
these areas.

Nova Roma already has laws to protect the privacy of her citizens, so
that should not be a great problem unless our legal experts think
that some additional provisions should be added.

As for informing parents about the minors under their charge, I do
not really understand what you are talking about. There are some
pieces of information about a Novoroman citizen that are not to be
disclosed according to our laws; but those are things like age,
address and telephone number. And I guess that a parent would know
this kind of information from other sources if he has the right to
know it (if he does not have the rigth, then Nova Roma must *not*
disclose it). But I am ready to follow your indications and those of
our legal experts to eliminate any possible loopholes.

I certainly believe that trying to fix our legislation where
necessary is far better than simply banning minors from our Res
Publica.

As for legal protection for Nova Roma, I guess that it is a subject
we have to deal with. I still believe that, with the amount of money
we are currently handling and the nature of our operations, we are an
unlikely target for a suit. But better safe than sorry. I think that
we should ask those of our citizens that have legal experience what
would be the best way to protect Nova Roma from a potential lawsuit,
given our current funds, and act accordingly.

CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salvete

--- Decimus Iunius Silanus <danedwardsuk@...>
escreveu: > Salve Consul,

>
> Congratulations on a much fairer century point lex.
> However......
>
> > II.B.4. PROVINCIAL POSITIONS
> >

[..]The ranks and titles of officials included

> > in each rank are defined by each governor.

[..]

> > Governor: 20 CP (10 past services)
> > 1st rank Official (one per provincia): [..]
> > 2nd rank Official: [..]
> > 3rd rank Official: [..]
> > 4th rank Official: [..]

> Whilst I applaud the emphasis on flexibility, might
> it not be sensible here to define more clearly the
> different ranks of officials. Thus 1st rank=senior
> legate, 2nd rank=legate, 3rd rank=scribe so on and
> so forth. This would provide us governors with
> greater guidance in this matter, allow for greater
> continuity of century point allocation across the
> provinces and thirdly reduce the possibility of
> abuse. Such recommendations would still allow
> governors flexibility in appointing provincial
> officials.

M.Arminius: This seems to be reasonable. In my opinion
the suggestion of Decimus Iunius can be issued by a
Senatus Consultum.

> Vale
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
> Propraetor Britanniae.

Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior


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Salvete


According with our site:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2756/index.html

Nova Roma still needs 7 candidates:
1 candidate for Aedilis Curule
3 candidates for Quaestor
1 candidate for Curator Araneum
1 candidate for Curator Differum
1 candidate for Rogator


Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior


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Salvete quirites,

As we approach the elections for next year's magistracies, I am going
to post a series of endorsements. These will be for those candidates
I consider especially well qualified for the offices they seek.

We are particularly fortunate this year in the candidates for Rogator.
Aulus Apollonius Cordus and Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus are
both men I endorse for election without any hesitation.

Cordus has worked with me throughout this past year as a member of
the senior consul's office of law and politics. In that time he has
proven himself a tireless and able person, capable of carrying out
tasks with a minimum of oversight. He worked hard to draft our new
law for conducting elections in the Comitia Centuriata, and he is
now eager to see his design in action. He has wanted to be a rogator
since he got involved with election reform, and I ask you to elect
him to that post.

Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus is a citizen of singular devotion
to Nova Roma. I am absolutely certain that he will be a fine Rogator,
and I ask that you vote for him as well.

We still need more candidates for Rogator. There should be four rogators.

I note that according to the page at http://novaroma.org/election/2756/
Gallio Velius Marsalas has declared for Rogator. However, this must
be incorrect. Velius is currently a rogator, and according to the
Lex Salicia de Prorogatione et Cumulatione he may not run for the same
office he currently holds in a subsequent year. He can only become
a candidate for next year's rogatorship after the ides of Decembris,
if there are not sufficient candidates by then.

See http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-i.html for
more information.

Were Velius qualified, I would endorse him too. He is a fine citizen.
But we must comply with our laws.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,

I must admit, that I had forgotten about the COPPA, or more
accurately I should say that I had forgotten that it was not just
sites "directed to children", but also general site that "have actual
knowledge that" they are dealing with children.

This is more of a complication than the possiblity of law suits,
however, I don't think it is a fatal flaw in this LEX. Paragraph 4 of
the proposed LEX reads:

"4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris
may be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of
such an applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by
relevant macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by
the Censors through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict."

It would be possible to modify the software that reads the data from
the Citizenship application, if the applicant under 13, send her/him
and email telling them that they first have a parent/guardian OK
their application. The modified software would then remove all
nformation that was entered on the form. Once the parent/guardian
sent the proper approval to the Censors, the Censors would then email
the minor and/or parent with telling the minor to apply again, and
sending them an authorization code to enter in a new field in the
application. The existance of this authorization code would then
allow a Citizenship application by a person under 13 to be processed
normally.

While it may be necessary to deal with the draconian laws in the USA,
I really wonder how often 12 year olds will be applying for
Citizenship.

They say that "the devil is in the details", but some times the
solution is too.

Vale,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:

> The kids are NOT the problem, the adults who want to "protect" the
> kids are the problem. They are the ones that file Civil actions.

They

> are the ones that agitate for laws to "protect" children. They are

the

> ones that write laws like COOPA, and they are the one who enforce
> those laws.
>


> From the USA Federal Trade Commission web site.
>
> "If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed

to

> children under 13 that collects personal information from children

or

> if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge
> that you are collecting personal information from children, you must
> comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act."
>
> Admitting minors under the age of 13 creates a legal obligation to
> comply with whatever regulations the FTC sets to enforce COOPA, and
> since these are regulations the FTC can change them. Government
> agencies rarely loosen regulations, the norm is increasing them.
>
> This isn't just a simple matter of let the kids in, it's a matter of
> legal consequances that can come from letting the kids in.
>
>

[My original posting snipped to save bandwidth]

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

I note that according to the page at http://novaroma.org/election/2756/
Gallio Velius Marsallas has declared for Rogator. However, this must
be incorrect. Velius is currently a Rogator, and according to the
Lex Salicia de Prorogatione et Cumulatione he may not run for the same
office he currently holds in a subsequent year. He can only become
a candidate for next year's rogatorship after the ides of Decembris,
if there are not sufficient candidates by then.

Based on this apparent conflict, I, Gallio Velius Marsallas, will
withdraw from being a candidate for Rogator. I did give thought to
the possible conflict of being a Rogator for an election in which I was seeking re-election.
It had appeared that one or more of the current Rogators had
served in the preceding year 2002, so I stepped-up for re-election.
Should the need arise, I would be willing to stand for re-election as
Rogator for 2004.

In Service to NovaRoma

George Metz / Gallio Velius Marsallas





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today I would like to discuss with you my proposals for the role of
the Aediles Curules in maintaining the virtual and physical structures
of the republic in the tradition of their ancient responsibilities.

The maintenance of temples and public buildings were the
responsibility of the Aediles Curules in Roma antiqua. I shall work
with my colleague, the Collegium Pontificum, the priesthoods, and the
Curator Araneum to create and maintain virtual temples to the Di
Immortales on the Nova Roma website, where images of the Di Immortales
are maintained, religious education had, instructions for rituals
archived, discussions of religious issues, recordings of rites, and,
eventually, live webcasting of rites can be made available for our
citizens.

It is unlikely that we shall be able to inaugurate a physical temple
on our land in the coming year, but we can provide a substantial
presence for worship of the Gods, religious education, and research in
a systematic internet programme. I intend to raise with the Collegium
Pontificum broadening the responsibilities of the Septemviri Epulones
to include creating and supporting templates for such internet centres
for the Religio. In antiquity the Septemviri Epulones provided the
material support and organisation of rituals and festivals; until we
have physical temples on Nova Roman land they can provide vital
support for public devotion, education, and outreach in the internet
community,

However, Nova Roma extends beyond an internet community. I shall
continue support for the excellent work of Aedilis Curulis Fr. Apulus
Caesar in promoting the excavation and restoration of the Temple of
Magna Mater in Rome and support the establishment of a permanent
charitable fund to contribute to preservation of the heritage of Roma
antiqua. Nova Roma also has great potential to help generate support
for expansion of the UNESCO World Heritage Site protections to many
currently endangered sites of Roman antiquity by lobbying the
macronational governments of our citizens to support such measures and
fundraising for Roman sites on the World Heritage List. I intend to
make it a priority of my curule aedileship to increase our active
participation in the preservation of the material heritage of Roman
antiquity.

I shall also use my professional contacts with archaeologists to
increase opportunities for Nova Roman citizens to volunteer to
participate in the excavation of Roman sites.

May the Di Immortales rightly guide us in all things!

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Candidate for Aedilis Curulis

Preaching to the choir, Marcus - Depeche Mode is in my music collection, along with a zillion other things; was a hard core New Waver myself, sad to see the music style has splintered into wavelets, undertows, washlets & quite a few stagnant pools!

The lack of much fresh & new sucks, but Blondie, the Police, the Blur, the Cars, OMD, and so so sooo much other cool stuff will live forever in my collection (been feeding it all into my new i-Pod these last few weeks).

Lever heard of Lulu - but I gather that ain't much of a loss!
Hip Hop & Rap are NOT MUSIC; they are at best America's youth blowing a collective Raspberry at their parents & the rest of us; at worst it's another sign of the decline of Wester Civilzation: The Barbarians have gotten within the gates - put them all to the sword!
Music should be musical! It should have Notes, people should occassionally hit them, et cetera...! Grrrll, snarrrll !!

Glad to hear the Council is there! An Idea Whose Idea Has Come! and all that good stuff ... Ha, ha, ... :-D

- Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
Sent: Nov 19, 2003 11:16 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Gods are watching...

<html><body>


<tt>
My friends and I called our selfs the New Wave Warriors based upon the genre of music we listened to and still do. I myself listen to Goth/Industrial more often than not now. Even Goth/ Industrial has it's roots in New Wave. Flesh for LuLu was a confused band that one of our friends called the 'Next Depeche Mode' (Depeche Mode is like our RA, Jupitor, Zeus, ETC> ETC>)  in a moment of insanity.<BR>
The New Wave Council is a powerful body that decides who is a traitor to our ways and listens to (Gods forbid!) Hip-hop, Rap or the curvy heathen-siren Ms. Spears.<BR>
We have our own chat group, I must have forwarded the thread to you by accident.<BR>
I am glad you laughed, though. I crack myself up sometimes too!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:<BR>
Oh, Marcus, what a hoot - still laughing, choking now, tears in eyes, gonna die laughing O Gods!<BR>
<BR>
Do you REALLY want to know what's next?  I think maybe I forward you a liitle gem some friends in Maryland sent me!<BR>
Warning - pretty dreadful stuff.<BR>
As dreadful as Flesh for LuLu?  You decide.<BR>
<BR>
So what's the New Wave Council?<BR>
I vote for conviction!<BR>
<BR>
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...><BR>
Sent: Nov 18, 2003 5:02 AM<BR>
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Gods are watching...<BR>
<BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
Just when I thought that the scourge of Flesh for LuLu (The band's very name invokes an image of feeding time for a rich woman's cannibalistic dog in Beverly Hills, a French Poodle, perhaps?)<BR><BR>
The New Wave Council must meet for possible penal actions against JJ. (Penal, John-Jay. Not penile, don't get all flustered!)<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Hey Berto...is there a statue of limitations on misdemeanor poserness or sacrilege to the New Wave deities, First Degree?<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Flesh for Lulu...<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
What's next? Anything Box?<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
S  P  Q  R<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Fidelis Ad Mortem.<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Marcvs Flavivs Fides<BR><BR>
Roman Citizen<BR><BR>
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard<BR><BR>
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May the Immortal Gods continue to be Good Guides to you, good Gaius!
May They protect you from all Harm, Gaius Cornelius Severus, Citizen!
Let Gens Cornelia swell with Pride, knowing that they have you!
Let all of Nova Roma know the Gods do smile upon us,
For we grow not just in Quantity but Quality as well !

- S E M T

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@...>
Sent: Nov 19, 2003 3:13 PM
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] New member

Salvete omnes,

I'd like to introduce myself, although I've been following this group
and posting occasional replies for the last two weeks as Gaius.
My Gens confirmation has arrived, I'm now part of the Gens Cornelia with
the name of Gaius Cornelius Severus.
I live in Britannia and work in Deva near the Legionary camp.I'm a
trainer, teaching railway signalling and safety subjects.
Outside work I speak (and translate) reasonably good French, Spanish and
some bits of German and Russian (as well as Latin).I'm a Linux
enthusiast, I've written articles on Linux for UK magazines and
tutorials for various web sites.
I read everythimg.
I'd like to thank all who replied to my emails, it's a good group to
belong to. If I can offer any assistance to other group members, I'd be
happy to do so.
I'm delighted to be a citizen of Nova Roma, may Fortuna and the Divine
Julius Caesar smile in your direction,

avete,

Gaius Cornelius Severus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to " Romans on the Danube: Carnuntum":

http://www.athenapub.com/carnun1.htm

This article by Barbara F. Abendschein first appeared in _Athena
Review_ 2:3 and reviews the archaeology of Pannonia's principal town
and garrison.

And see the _Athena Review's_ extensive image archive of sites in
Rome's Danubian provinces:

http://www.athenapub.com/bulgimg1.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Thank you very much Marinus!

While my room-mate sent him something (a crackerjack Historian but alas no Roman!), and I put together a IX Point essay to help him, and even asked Justinian to help (since they're the same age), we all pale in comparison to your own knowledge and experience!

To our fellow Citizens I should like to add that not only is it a duty to help the young, but these modest efforts can create a lot of good will with the Outside World towards NR: Someone helped in a time of need will say nice things about us to friends and familly and classmates - it is good, no cost PR for NR.! Most of you probably have reams of good solid research tucked away in your computers - it takes very little effort to retrieve, address & send!

Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
Sent: Nov 19, 2003 3:47 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fw: Re: Help with paper

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:

>
> Attention Please:
>   The young man who requested assistance with a paper on Rome wrote
> back with more details (see below).

Thank you Servius Equitius, I shall write to him.

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
My Curule Aedile website is <a href="http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~gawne/ca.html">http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~gawne/ca.html

Salve

--- politicog <politicog@...> escreveu: >

> --- daniel villanueva <danielovi@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Tribunus Plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> > Quiritibus SPD

[..]

> > ITEM 5. New Plebeian Aedile
> >
> > No candiate has appeared to take this position
> until
> > the 31st of December.
> > This position will be left empty until the next
> > Senate meeting.
> > -------------------------------------
> >
> Constantius: I believe the Consul can withdraw this
> matter. Three candidates for plebeian aedile have
> come forward.

M.Arminius: This item is for the Aediles of the
present year. Currently, we had only one Plebeian
Aedile (L.Arminius Faustus), since the other
(M.Scribonius Curio) resigned due to certain
circumstances.

[..]

> Lucius Quintius Constantius

Vale
M.Arminius

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Salve Illustrus Gallio Velius Marsallas!

I thank You for your dutifulness. The Res Publica certainly need
Rogatores to get the system to work, it is a_very_ important
position.. Good luck in the future!

>Should the need arise, I would be willing to stand for re-election as
>Rogator for 2004.
>
>In Service to NovaRoma
>
>George Metz / Gallio Velius Marsallas

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Hail our provincial gladiatores who went to the end of the world and brought
back Victory !
In a crowed amphitheatre, in a nail biting confrontation, Britannia won the
day !

Britannia rules the field !

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

Hear him! Hear him!

Decimus Iunius Silanus

> Britannia rules the field !
>
> Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
> "To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

Many thanks candidatus Salix,

Your answer was clear and I was most pleased that you intend to start
thinking about this issue within "months"...

Most respectfully

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@...]
Sent: 22 November 2003 02:02
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: How I am going to choose my consul...


Salvete Quirites; et salve, Laureate Armorice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:

> Salve candidate Salix Astur,
>
> Thank you for your answer; I am glad you have identified one of our
> nation's weak point.

Thank you. I try to do my best :-).

> May I, in turn, comment on one of your sentences ?

Of course.

> You said :
>
> "if we actually try to discuss about this issue from the very
> beginning and avoiding falling in the same mistakes, we might reach
> a solution, an agreement that will satisfy the different factions."
>
> Although I do appreciate your diplomatic skills in bringing
> different opinions together, I have to wonder why and how we can
> satisfy different "factions" : What is there to discuss and to
> accomodate these "factions" ? A gens is composed of so many
> families each headed by a pater/materfamilias;
> There were no pater/mater gentis in ancient Rome, were there ?
> I fail to see why we should try to reach a compromise (and to whose
> benefit?) on something so obvious.
>
> Please do not take my comments too harshly : This particular
> subject is dear to me and I tend to be somehow passionate about it.

I understand it very well; it is also an important subject for me,
and I have been discussing it for several years :-).

What do I mean that an agreement is possible? Because, if we leave
overinflated arguments aside, positions are not that far off. Hardly
everyone agrees in how the historical model was. Hardly everyone
agrees that a historical model is more or less desiderable. The
differences are more in the finer details.

This subject has been floating around for a long time. I am
determined to solve it, once and for all. I would also like to make
it as non-traumatic as possible. I am ready to listen to other
people's opinions, and I am ready to consder other people's
suggestions. But my goal is that gentes be allowed to follow the
historical model in a few months from now. And yes; that would mean
gentes composed by different familiae.

CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR



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>Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:14:13 +0100
> From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@...>
>Subject: Re: consular candidates
>
>Salve Saturninus,
>
>> This is really great news for Nova Roma: we have now two most
>> excellent candidates for consuls!
>
> > Citizens, I recommend you to vote for these candidates because they
>> have the skills, dedication and character to steer our respoublica
> > into bright future!
>
>Hey now, it's not a problem for me that you support my competitors,
>but you could have at least
>mentioned how nice I was to you when I made your hotel arrangements
>in Belgium and that I changed
>them for you 6 times without complaining :-) (The people at the
>Hotel Schoofs still role their eyes
>at me when they see me!) Or that I organized the entire Nova Roma
>Rally 2755 for you with pleasure.
>Or that I translated for everyone the entire week. Or that I have
>nice teeth or some sort of
>honorable mention. Jeez :-(((

Salve Diana,

As you requested:

Citizens, I recommend you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus
Equitius Marinus to consul, because they have the skills, dedication
and character to steer our respoublica into bright future! There is
also a nice third candidate, Diana Moravia Aventina, whom I do not
support as consul but who has lot's of enthusiasm to become one.

>But good luck to you in your bid for Quastor. I am sure that if you
>win, you'll make a fine one!

Thank you for your support.

Vale,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Salve,

I was reading on one of the e-mails and I recall someone saying that the
program that distributes the voter codes passes over minors. Is that true.
Also if I don't get a voter code would I still get a century and tribe?

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salvete quirites,
>
> I note that according to the page at http://novaroma.org/election/2756/
> Gallio Velius Marsalas has declared for Rogator. However, this must
> be incorrect. Velius is currently a rogator, and according to the
> Lex Salicia de Prorogatione et Cumulatione he may not run for the same
> office he currently holds in a subsequent year. He can only become
> a candidate for next year's rogatorship after the ides of Decembris,
> if there are not sufficient candidates by then.
>
> See http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-i.html for
> more information.

Salve,

Unfortunately not even under the circumstance of the Salician Lex may
a rogator stand for office for a second term nor any other office for
that matter as the LEX MINUCIA DE ROGATORIBUS
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-02-03-i.html
forbids sitting rogators from seeking another office. However if
after midnight Jan 1st 2004 there is still a vacancy for rogator,
Gallio Velius Marsalas could stand in a special election to fill that
vacancy as his term (as well as mine) will have expired. If that
turns out to be the case, I can honestly say from experience he would
make a very highly qualified candidate.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

> I was reading on one of the e-mails and I recall someone saying that the
> program that distributes the voter codes passes over minors. Is that true.

Yes.

> Also if I don't get a voter code would I still get a century and tribe?

No, the century/tribe assigning programs look for the voter code as an
indication of which citizens need century/tribe assignment.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Salve. ego Quintus Caelius Urbanus. New to Nova Roma (under this name, say the least).

I have been reading the ideas expressed in regards to "banning" youth from the rank and file of Nova Roma. I, for myself, being counted as an individual, am against any such edict, law, statute or otherwise hear-say. I myself had joined Nova Roma at the tender age of 16. Still very much a minor in regards to laws of the United States, but not so elsewhere. I was in responce to Gn. Scribonius Scriptor who is the person in question.

I believe that as a micronation, that as such we are, we have no use for not allowing certain types of people from joining the nation. When we start banning "minors", then it comes to class. So after not allow minors, we will not allow people who do not make more than $25,000 a year. After class, we come to the dreaded race. What then? Does Nova Roma become the Aryian Nation? No people can join Nova Roma unless they are Caucasian, with blonde hair and blue eyes, and not under the age of 25, making no less than $25,000 a year. This idea of not allowing certain groups of people is sheer insanity.

I believe that Livia Cornelia Hibernia made a very valid point. There are a lot of websites that make use of an authorization form in order for those regarded as youth, to become a part of that website's synergy. There is nothing stopping Nova Roma from doing such, except for ourselves. Although I do deem it noteable that we do not necessairly deal with 12 year old children, but the fact that the US states a minor is such until they reach the age of 18, we can only think as to the safety of not only the children (if indeed we do have them lurking around in the shadows) and Nova Roma as a respectable micronation.

That being said... I would like to dicuss the issue of becoming an actual recognized micronation. I forget the name, but in the last digest I recieved, someone spoke of global recognition as ambitious. I do not believe that, being an online community with elections, religion, education, and so forth, that seeking a now global realization is ambitious. I believe it to be a rather heartworthy endevour that all Roma, antiqua and present, could deem as good. Ambition is a deadly thing (as all know with Caesar, from only Shakespeare though... "Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?").

The problems that stop us, as I see it, are only internal. Whereas some speak of solidarity (I agree most whole heartedly on that), some speak of micro-incorporation to keep laws, taxes and such in order (an idea that much needs to be discussed in further detail at a later date). When we take steps forward to allow the rest of the world to view Nova Roma as a legit micronation, we cannot allow the proverbial "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" syndrome. IF we are to agree, we must do so collectively.

Being an American citizen (and a left-wing radical), I am rather saddened by our state of affairs. Almost $1 trillion dollars in debt to now a raging war against something we had no idea of stopping. And our President foregoing the laws set by the Constitution and amendments (this is in reference to his war on Iraq, not originally deemed a war because the House and Senate did not sign a war bill when it started, only afterwards for fear of public opinion). Spirally down the tunnel of hell, there is no easy way out now. I do not want Nova Roma to become as such.

Sorry for this being so long-winded. I see a politician in me growing. Please feel free to respond in any way, and try not to attack my personal character.

vale...

Quintus Caelius Urbanus.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Saturninus,

> Citizens, I recommend you to vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus
> Equitius Marinus to consul, because they have the skills, dedication
> and character to steer our respoublica into bright future! There is
> also a nice third candidate, Diana Moravia Aventina, whom I do not
> support as consul but who has lot's of enthusiasm to become one.

Thanks!

Diana

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Baumgartner"
<joel.baumgartner@s...> wrote:

> Salve. ego Quintus Caelius Urbanus. New to Nova Roma (under this

name, say the least).

>
> I have been reading the ideas expressed in regards to "banning"

youth from the rank and file of Nova Roma. I, for myself, being
counted as an individual, am against any such edict, law, statute or
otherwise hear-say. I myself had joined Nova Roma at the tender age
of 16. Still very much a minor in regards to laws of the United
States, but not so elsewhere. I was in responce to Gn. Scribonius
Scriptor who is the person in question.

>

Snip for space but read!

Salve Quinte,

Well spoken. Many people in Nova Roma began their passions for
Ancient Rome as children and younger people, Their participation in
this nation should be greatly encouraged because someday they will
become great productive citizens.

Incidently, I don't know about US laws but according to my lawyer who
is a coorporate expert in Canada, a credit cards, documents,
agreements etc. without a hand written signiture mean diddly squat
legally. The issuers cannot actually make you adhere to a contract
or money transaction without that hand written signiture. When it
comes to the crunch in court, they will lose. That is why the post
office and those god awful courrier bicyclists are still around town
every day. Another concern that just came up are the electronic tower
sheets we do on oil drilling projects now. There is a concern that it
will be very difficult to delegate and shift responsibilities between
the office and field people without the old signitures. Based on my
observations I have wondered what all this fuss over minors is about
in NR since we don't practice any ancient or old perverted vices that
would get us into trouble with minors.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salvete omnes,

Here is an interesting website with a little celtic music to boot
which is a good summary of the Picts and their fights with the Romans.

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/manet/394/page34a.htm

Also, I was wondering if the 9th Hispanic Legion was said to have
disappeared in Scotland circa 121 AD or was it perhaps secretly
disbanded and left out of the annals of history? Has their been any
archeological work attempted to find the legion that anyone knows
about, similar to the work done on Veras' legions in the Teutoburg
Wald?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

then this


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I said this first


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve L Sergius,

I'm cc'in the mainlist. I hope that you don't mind!

> I suppose I am thrilled that we have candidates for the aedileship, but
> I'm hoping to hear from you want you intend to do if elected consul.
> Where do you propose to lead us? What do you plan to do in the curule
> chair?

First of all, I'll put a nice comfy pillow on it since sitting on a marble chair all day makes my
rear sore :-))))) Now I'll get serious:

> Your election would be a truly historic first - a female consul of Rome! That may well give the

voters pause. So please tell us a bit

> about what we could expect from you.

Well running for Consul and being a female is a double edged sword. Some citizens will vote for me
solely because I am a female and others would vote against me solely because I am a female! This is
why I don't refer to myself as a 'Tribuna'. I am a Tribune first who having a 50-50 chance, came
into this world as a female :-) But women are taking part in NR more and more and this is a good
thing. We need hard workers regardless or sex, religion or race or sexual orientation.

If you'll notice, like me the other two candidates have not promised anything in thier candidacy
speeches either other than the usual 'I will lead NR to glory" type of thing. I think this is the
right attitude. There is no sense promising things to the citizenry that they do not find important.
I think what you can expect from me is that I will always be around to listen to what the citizens
want, to act accordingly.

Right now I see that the Gens reform is something that many citizens are worried about and I am
already looking into it to see what we can do in order to make everyone happy. The gens reform
discussions have come up time and time again

A second thing I see is that a few citizens really want NR to be taken seriously in the world and
the way to do it is by attracting scholars and recruiting new citizens and keeping them here. We may
have 2000 citizens, but 1000 of them are missing in action as socii and maybe 100 are active. Even
less are actively working to promote Nova Roma. We need to get bigger in order to be seen as a
player in the real world. How do we do that? By organizing activities! I already have written a list
of what could be done at a NR activitiy to attract new people-- things that would be very very cheap
to do and fun for all participants. This is where my Pagan Federation experience comes into play. In
Belgium, I made the PF grow by 800 percent since becoming its National Coordinator (the Chairwoman
so to speak) of the PF in Belgium since 1997.

A third thing that I have noted this week is a few people are not happy that they had to pay their
taxes THIS YEAR in order to run for election next year. This is simply because many citizens are not
aware of how things work in NR. Not many citizens read through the laws and that is another reason
why I want to write a citizens handbook quickly outlining things and then pointing them to the law
where they will find the details. We are turning good people away who want to serve Nova Roma
because of this need to pay taxes the year before. Honestly I think that needs to be changed. I find
that it is enough if they pay their taxes for the year that they hold office. Either that or we need
to be shouting constantly on the main list before the tax period is over that if they want to run
for office in the following year, they need to pay during the current year!

A fourth thing that I will really pay attention to is the Religio in Nova Roma. As in the Pagan
Federation, I will not try to force my beliefs on anyone. That said, I really want to be a positive
role model as a follower of the Religio and I will consult with the Collegium Pontificium and our
Augur Lucius Equitius on a regular basis. I truly would be a Consul who pays attention to the Gods
and more than that I cannot and will not do.

Minors in Nova Roma is also something that many people are concerned about. We have some very clever
and hard working citizens who are minors (Tubertus for example) and it would be a shame to shut
these young people out. Just like citizens of different races, religions and sexual preferences, our
youth has a different perspective to things. Just because someone is young does not mean that they
have nothing valuable to say!! On the other side I do worry that someone's parents may worry that we
are a cult since many of us are Pagans. BUT Nova Roma is still mainly a micronation and the minor
issue is something that needs to be looked into again in many years to come when we are much more
present in the 'real' world. I think that when we really break out of this virtual world, parental
consent would solve that problem just fine.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Candidate for Consul 2757

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Laureate Armorice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:

> Many thanks candidatus Salix,

You are most welcome, citizen :-).

> Your answer was clear and I was most pleased that you intend to
> start thinking about this issue within "months"...

I minor correction, if I may :-).
I have been thinking about this issue *for years*. I intend to have
it solved within a few months.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

In a message dated 11/22/03 8:10:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mjk@... writes:

> Also, I was wondering if the 9th Hispanic Legion was said to have
> disappeared in Scotland circa 121 AD or was it perhaps secretly
> disbanded and left out of the annals of history? Has their been any
> archeological work attempted to find the legion that anyone knows
> about, similar to the work done on Veras' legions in the Teutoburg
> Wald?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>

Ah the IX. What happened to her? I think she was broken up into
Vexillationes and sent all over the Empire leaving the rump at her fortress which
eventually was reduced in numbers so badly that her Eagle was retired and a new Legio
raised in her place in Syria.
Cerialis the Legate of the IX was brought to battle by the Iceni tribe
(Boudicca's Rebellion)
CE 61. No written number of forces sent was kept but we assume it was two
Vex, of around 1000 men each. The Eagle was not there. There was an ala of
horse as well, either Hispanic or Gallic, sources differ. The Britons
slaughtered the force so bad, that Cerialis killed himself, later to avoid facing the
Governor and the Emperor.
A Vex. was sent to take part in the Vittellian's rebellion against Otho in 69
AD. It suffered casualties during the campaign, and was never returned.
We have sources saying the IX unlucky, its camp was stormed by the
Caledonians in CE 83, suffered more casualties, before Agricola, show up with
reinforcements to save it. The reason why Chieftain Calgiach attacked was it was the
smallest legio in Agricola's 25,000 man army.
It shows up again at Mons Graupius CE 84 a year later. Again it is the
smallest legio there, out the 10,000 legionaries mentioned. Assuming the XX, II
was at 4,000 (typical strength of a legio on campaign) that gives the IX around
2000 men.
Later the IX was stationed at York. A serious revolt in 119 CE, against the
undermanned British occupation army meant that the VIIth was sent to Britannia
to aid, and also meant the small legio the IXth had been bled white during
the struggle, and could no longer be a viable legio. It was removed from
Britannia and sent East, possibly to refit. It was part of the Vex. Marcus Aurelius
took against the Armenians/Parthians in the 160s and ceases to be reported on
after this (161) .

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Candidates

Earlier this year we had, what I thought was a very productive discussion on "The Little Things"

Can you as candidates for Consul please list five "little things" that you will do or work to get done in your first month in office?

For example, it was pointed out by one of "Latinist" that the Latin on the web site, which is our first link to the out side world, is very poor. (Not a criticisms, I have no latin so I would have done even worse).

How do you intend to "fix" our public latin?

or what other five little things will you fix?


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quinte!

You explained a lot.Thanks. I guess earlier writings of their
mysterious disappearance can be chalked up to the pre television
Victorian book and magazine versions of our unsolved mysteries or
urban legends.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/22/03 8:10:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> mjk@d... writes:
>
>
> > Also, I was wondering if the 9th Hispanic Legion was said to have
> > disappeared in Scuinteotland circa 121 AD or was it perhaps
secretly
> > disbanded and left out of the annals of history? Has their been
any
> > archeological work attempted to find the legion that anyone knows
> > about, similar to the work done on Veras' legions in the
Teutoburg
> > Wald?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
>
> Ah the IX. What happened to her? I think she was broken up into
> Vexillationes and sent all over the Empire leaving the rump at her
fortress which
> eventually was reduced in numbers so badly that her Eagle was
retired and a new Legio
> raised in her place in Syria.
> Cerialis the Legate of the IX was brought to battle by the Iceni
tribe
> (Boudicca's Rebellion)
> CE 61. No written number of forces sent was kept but we assume it
was two
> Vex, of around 1000 men each. The Eagle was not there. There was
an ala of
> horse as well, either Hispanic or Gallic, sources differ. The
Britons
> slaughtered the force so bad, that Cerialis killed himself, later
to avoid facing the
> Governor and the Emperor.
> A Vex. was sent to take part in the Vittellian's rebellion against
Otho in 69
> AD. It suffered casualties during the campaign, and was never
returned.
> We have sources saying the IX unlucky, its camp was stormed by the
> Caledonians in CE 83, suffered more casualties, before Agricola,
show up with
> reinforcements to save it. The reason why Chieftain Calgiach
attacked was it was the
> smallest legio in Agricola's 25,000 man army.
> It shows up again at Mons Graupius CE 84 a year later. Again it is
the
> smallest legio there, out the 10,000 legionaries mentioned.
Assuming the XX, II
> was at 4,000 (typical strength of a legio on campaign) that gives
the IX around
> 2000 men.
> Later the IX was stationed at York. A serious revolt in 119 CE,
against the
> undermanned British occupation army meant that the VIIth was sent
to Britannia
> to aid, and also meant the small legio the IXth had been bled white
during
> the struggle, and could no longer be a viable legio. It was
removed from
> Britannia and sent East, possibly to refit. It was part of the
Vex. Marcus Aurelius
> took against the Armenians/Parthians in the 160s and ceases to be
reported on
> after this (161) .
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]