Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Nov 24-16, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16929 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16930 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16931 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16932 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Declaration of Candidacy for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16933 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Roman Links Page
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16934 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Declaration of Candidacy for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16935 From: Ben Okopnik Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16936 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16937 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16938 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16939 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16940 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16941 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16942 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16943 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Remarks about ´Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata´
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16944 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16945 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16946 From: Galus Agorius Taurinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Eleusinion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16947 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16948 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16949 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16950 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16951 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16952 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16953 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16954 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16955 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16956 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16957 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16958 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16959 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16960 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16961 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16962 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16963 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16964 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Question for the candidates for Consul 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16965 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16966 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16967 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Candidate for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16968 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16969 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16970 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16971 From: Doris Butler Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16972 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16973 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16974 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16975 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16976 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16977 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: High Tech Solutions To a Low Tech Problem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16978 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16979 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16980 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16981 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16982 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16983 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16984 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Question for the candidates for Consul 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16985 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16986 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16987 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16988 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16989 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Roman Scotland / Disappearence of the 9th Hispanic Legion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16990 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Roman Scotland / Disappearence of the 9th Hispanic Legion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16991 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16992 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16993 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16994 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16995 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16996 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Ammianus Marcellinus on the Georgraphy of the Pontus Euxinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16997 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16998 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16999 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17000 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Can we dispense with the name calling?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17001 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17002 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Centur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17003 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17004 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17005 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17006 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Ce
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17007 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17008 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: ATthought for the Day
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17009 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17010 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17011 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Poorly Written Leges
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17012 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17013 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17014 From: Daniel Dreesbach Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17015 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Ce
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17016 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17017 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17018 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17019 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17020 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: TIME TO VOTE 18.00 ROMAN TIMES in Comitia Centuria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17021 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: TIME TO VOTE 18.00 ROMAN TIME in Comitia Populi Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17022 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17023 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17024 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: ATthought for the Day
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17025 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17026 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17027 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17028 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17029 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17030 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17031 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17032 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17033 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17034 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17035 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Recruitment Categories
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17036 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment Categories
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17037 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17038 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17039 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17040 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17041 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17042 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment Categories
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17043 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17044 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17045 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Personal Attacks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17046 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17047 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17048 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17049 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Fwd: [Nova-Roma] Latin forms of address (reprise)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17050 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Legio IX Hispana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17051 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17052 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17053 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17055 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17056 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Apology
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17057 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17058 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17059 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17060 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Apology
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17061 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17062 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17063 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17064 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17065 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17066 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17067 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17068 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17069 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17070 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17071 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17072 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Concrete Proposals from G. Iuslius Scaurus: Commercial Administrati
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17073 From: Ben Okopnik Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17074 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17075 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17076 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17077 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17078 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17079 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17080 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17081 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17082 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17083 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17084 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17085 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17086 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17087 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17088 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17089 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Away on Wednesday 26th
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17090 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17091 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17092 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17093 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17094 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17095 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Dismissal of Provincial Legate Marcus Ambrosius Incendium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17096 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17097 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Codes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17098 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17099 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17100 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17101 From: Hiera Cassia Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17102 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17103 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17104 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17105 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16929 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete Quirites; et salve, F. Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S. P. D.
>
> Both the C. Fabius Quintilianus and Diana Moravia have been very
> strongly in favor of more vigorous recruiting in many of their
> previous posts and I wanted to make a suggestion.
> In March 2004, Champion Video Productions are doing a trailer here
> in Nashville during the last weekend of the month. Over 120 Roman
> military & civilian reenactors have committed to being here for
> this. On Sunday, there will be a Roman Faire open to the general
> public that is being promoted by the state, city, and CVP.
> If we can get a good presentation put together that includes
> photos, pamphlets, flags, articles, items, and several NR citizens,
> then Nova Roma should have a booth. I can supply the pavilion,
> chairs, and a table (along with some books and a small altar) for
> this. If anyone is interested in assisting on this, please let me
> know so I can begin making the arrangements now. Vale.

It certainly sounds like an interesting experience.
If I am correct, the city of Nashville is located in the state of
Tennesse, in the province of America Austrorientalis. Perhaps some of
the citizens of the provinces of America Austrorientalis, Lacus Magni
and America Medioccidentalis Superior would like to assist.

I would say that, by the month of Martius, we should have some new
recruitment graphic material prepared for such an event. We will only
need volunteers to go there and take part in the activities (which,
by the way, seem quite a lot of fun :-) ).

So, citizens; would any of you like to go to this meeting in Nova
Roma's name?

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16930 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete quirites,

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus writes:

> In March 2004, Champion Video Productions are doing a trailer here in
> Nashville during the last weekend of the month. [...]

I'm going to be there.

> If we can get a good presentation put together that
> includes photos, pamphlets, flags, articles, items, and
> several NR citizens, then Nova Roma should have a booth.

Yes, we should. I intend to have something like that, and
I would certainly appreciate your help.

> I can supply the pavilion, chairs, and a table (along
> with some books and a small altar) for this.

You've got a deal. I know that my legate Gallio Marsalas
is going to be there with his Legio XXIV Mediatlantica.
With a bit more luck I'll be able to bring along a few
other citizens from the province.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16931 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve,

Besides you offended me with your ironic, thing that as a magistrate
I do not tolerate, because I never make this kind of attack. So, I
demand your apologies.

I. The Plebeian Class has historically some things more than the
others. Why? Because of the ancient fight of the Plebs on the
Ancient. There is no Faustus, but History. If NR wants to follow the
Ancient, it has to be done.

II. ONLY on NR there is this difference. If you read the ancient
texts of Livius and Cassius, there was no difference real between the
aedilships, except the curule chair. So why the aedilship of the
plebis cannot count with this? Alas, ´lesser authority´ is not clear
on Constitution, so it is your interpretation.

For this, I urge Plebeians Citizens to VOTE NO for Lex Fabia
Centuriata, and urge the Tribune Plebis to study this matter
carefully.

For my honor, for the honor of the plebeians, this law cannot count
with my support, but with my bitter disappointment for this
unnecessary proposal now.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:
> | Why making a gap so great between two equal magistracies that
> | worked with Concordia and had literally the SAME work?
>
> Salve, Luci Armini Fauste.
>
> They may, generally, be doing rather similar work; However, the two
> magistracies have never been equal. Here are the differences,
according
> to the constitution:
>
> 1. Aediles Curulis hold Imperium; Aediles Plebis don't.
> 2. Aediles Curulis can pronounce intercessio against anoter aedile,
> curule OR plebeian; Aediles Plebis can only pronounce intercessio
> against other Aediles Plebis (Both can pronounce intercessio against
> "magistrates of lesser authority)
> 3. Aediles Curulis are charged with maintaining the venues where the
> Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property.
It is
> the responsibility of the Curule Aediles to report any changes of
the
> Ordo Equaestor to the Censors.
>
> Clearly, the "honors, powers and obligations" of the Aedilis
Curulis are
> a superset of those of the Aediles Plebis, making the former a
greater
> authority. As such, it makes sense, constitutionally as well as
> logically, to award Aediles Curulis more for their time of service
to
> the republic.
>
> I hope I made sense? I've just come from a math class, so I might
be a
> bit up in the blue. :/
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/wh4MAGtgaSonkUoRAuCvAJ4s5v80EuY4zKdNjwV5WDKt0CGB9gCfcgVm
> 60hGYSDKydk/XLtTas2/aM0=
> =cMKY
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16932 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Declaration of Candidacy for Quaestor
Salvete

Today I, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa, come before the People of Nova
Roma to announce my candidacy for the office of Quaestor. I know
that I am quite unknown compared to many of the other candidates but
I believe that it is time for me to become more involved in our
Republic. I have been a citizen for almost three years and have
enjoyed every moment of my time here.

I have been the webmaster for the province of Canada Occidentalis
since the inception of the site and I also pay for the hosting with
my own money. Our province is small but growing, as evidenced by
the acceptance of Legio XXI from Calgary as a sponsored legion. If
I am elected, I promise to dedicate myself to my office and to the
People of Nova Roma. I ask that you put your trust in me. I shall
not let you down.

Should anyone have any questions, please feel free to email me -

vipsaniusagrippa@... or canadaoccidentalis@...

Valete,
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Candidate for Quaestor.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16933 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Roman Links Page
Salve,
While doing a search I ran across this site full of Roman Links. I don't
know if it's mentioned before or not. It's called
Roman365. Here is the URL for it:

http://go.roman365.com

I haven't had a chance to really go over the site yet but it looks
very interesting.

Vale,
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16934 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Declaration of Candidacy for Quaestor
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa [declared for Quaestor]

Gai Vipsani! What a pleasant surprise to see you stepping
onto the Cursus Honorum.

Quirites, I have known this man in the Sodalitas Militarium
for some years now. He will be an excellent quaestor, and
I commend him to you with enthusiasm.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16935 From: Ben Okopnik Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete, omnes; salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 04:16:00PM -0000, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cai Minuci.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
>
> > This, of course, presumes that these minors would be interested in
> > assuming such a position. We have no means of authentication (i.e.,
> > actually determining whether someone is a minor or not), which
> > makes any discussion of relevant legal problems pointless. As well,
> > any minor who does not wish to be subject to these laws - or
> > conversely, any adult who wants to have people "responsible" for
> > their education - would simply give the appropriate age when
> > signing up with Nova Roma.
> >
> > The Lex Fabia De Civitate Minorum defines certain rights of minors
> > and clarifies relevant points in the law within the framework of
> > how Nova Roma actually works. Trying to map it onto actual Roman
> > family life, or even the daily face-to-face interaction of a modern
> > family misses the point. If and when we _do_ have a different Gens
> > structure, we will need to pass a different body of related laws.
> > Conflating the two situations does a disservice to both Nova Roma
> > as she is today and as she will be tomorrow. I suggest we follow
> > the Mos Maiorum, and deal with today's problems today.
>
> I think that perhaps we are not talking about the same thing, Cai
> Minuci :-). I am not talking against the Lex Fabia de Civitate
> Minorum, neither am I saying that it is not necessary. I am just
> saying that, once our gens system has been reformed, we will be able
> to adapt the status of our minor citizens following the patterns
> established by Roman tradition (patterns that, by the way, present
> some remarkable similarities to those found in our modern culture).

My apologies for not making myself clearer (for some reason, I've not
done well at being denotational over the past day or two.) My response
was as much to the original poster, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus,
as it was to you; I was trying to reply to the main thrust of his
argument as well as responding to the point you were making in your
response to him. Perhaps I should have replied to the two posts
separately.

To lay it out a bit more, I'm saying that the original poster was
conflating the current status of minors in NR with the additions
proposed in this Lex, as well as not taking cognizance of the relevant
key fact with regard to the so-called "legal problems" (lack of
authentication.) I agree with your statement that the Gens system needs
to be changed, and realize that it will change in time; I am also making
an additional point: we will need relevant laws when that does occur.
These laws will be *of necessity* different from the laws we need today,
which must reflect the situation in Nova Roma as she is currently.


Valete bene,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Arte et Marte.
With peaceful effort and warlike feats.
-- N/A
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16936 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Latin forms of address (reprise)
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Curator Galerius Paulinus' question

> How do you intend to "fix" our public latin?

has suddenly reminded me that a while ago I offered to
share with you my notes of a book on Latin forms of
address. It took me far longer than I expected to type
them up, and I'd forgotten until now that I'd done it.

I still have a record of everyone who asked me for a
copy the first time round, so I'll send them all a
copy soon, but first I thought I'd see whether there's
anyone else who'd like to be added to my list.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16937 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
and especially candidates for consul, greetings.

Senator L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Maybe he should have had the Consular Cohort, excuse
> me, Cohors look
> into rewarding based on the quality of service
> rather than quanity of
> servants.

As I read this an idea suddenly popped into my head
which might enable us to do that. I wish I'd thought
of it earlier, but for what it's worth I'll offer it
to the candidates for consul so that they can, if they
like it, put it into effect next year.

It could be done by:

1. Enacting this proposed law as it stands

2. Adding a new provision to the lex Salica Poenalis
which would allow accensi and scribae to be prosecuted
for not doing the work they were appointed to do, the
penalty being that they would be deprived of their
century points for that appointment.

If this were done, those who worked would get the
points they deserve, and there would be a mechanism to
ensure that those who didn't deserve them could have
them taken away.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16938 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Salve, A. Apollonius Cordus -

On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 06:05:23PM +0000, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Curator Galerius Paulinus' question
>
> > How do you intend to "fix" our public latin?
>
> has suddenly reminded me that a while ago I offered to
> share with you my notes of a book on Latin forms of
> address. It took me far longer than I expected to type
> them up, and I'd forgotten until now that I'd done it.
>
> I still have a record of everyone who asked me for a
> copy the first time round, so I'll send them all a
> copy soon, but first I thought I'd see whether there's
> anyone else who'd like to be added to my list.

Just in case I missed it the last time, please add me to the list.


Vale bene,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit.
No fort is so strong that it cannot be taken with money.
-- Cicero, "In Verrem"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16939 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal
Salve Marinus,
Leave it to the Marines to always be prepared (even for events that
may never come to pass).
Semper Fi,
Justinian


> I will propose a Senatus Consultum to obtain a legal opinion, either
> pro bono or for cost, on Nova Roma's legal exposure to these
matters.
> Furthermore, I will include funds in the budget I submit next year
> to cover annual legal consultation fees. Once we have a proper
> legal opinion issued by competent authority, we will proceed from
> that point to take such steps as may be needed to deal with any
> problems our legal counsel identifies, and if necessary obtain
> additional legal counsel in those of our provinces which the
> initial findings identify as possibly problematical.
>
> I will not be swayed by either the doom-sayers or those who would
> prefer the ostrich approach. Thus far, the only legal opinion I've
> seen expressed on these questions has come from Agricola, who as
> a lawyer assured us that the risk is slight. But he didn't provide
> that as his official finding, and therefore I'm treating it as
> annecdotal rather than certain.
>
> -- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16940 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

If I may, I'd like to respond to a few points you've
raised about this proposal in various different posts
you've made on the subject.

First, a general comment: you seem to be under the
impression that the proposal would have a negative
impact on under-age citizens. You say, for instance:

> I believe our current policy is the best. We
> should continue to permit Minors to become Citizens.

Let's be clear: our current policy - our current legal
position - is that people under 18 who do not have a
citizen parent are *not* permitted to become citizens.
This is one of the main points this law would address.


It's true that people under 18 are sometimes permitted
to become citizens even if they don't have citizen
parents. But this is illegal, and the result of it is
that such people have no legal status here. If anyone
ever troubled to enforce the law, they could be kicked
out without trial. Are you sure you prefer that?

On to your more specific points:

> I. The section regarding rights retained is fine
> - the more rights the better. It is the rights
> reduced that I have difficulty with.

You go on to object at the proposal to deny under-age
citizens the rights to judicial appeal and authority
over personal and household rites except as exercised
through the pater / materfamilias, and to deny them
the rights to vote, engage in commerce through the
Equestrian Order, and be elected to magistracies.

Well, I've mentioned the fact that currently under-18s
have no legal rights of their own at all, so I'd argue
that giving them even some rights is an improvement.
But I'll also explain why there are some they can't
have.

If they were given the right to complete authority
over their personal and household rites, this would
make it illegal for their parents to involve them in
their family rituals without their explicit consent -
which, okay, sounds fair enough for someone aged 17,
but not so good when the child is aged 1.

To have the right to judicial appeal, they would have
to be able to act on their own behalf in court. Again,
some teenagers may well be quite capable of doing this
in practice, but if they are, then their pater / mater
can allow them to - but a child of four or a child of
ten is not going to be competent to defend himself or
herself in court.

To give impuberes the right of appeal would also be
contrary to Roman practice, as would allowing them to
vote or to be elected to magistracies. Minimum ages
for voting and for public service are set down in
every democratic country, as far as I know. I don't
see what's so outrageous about having them here.

And I think you've misinterpreted the clause about
engaging in commerce. Impuberes can engage in commerce
as much as they want; all this law says is that they
don't have the right to expect the state to help them.

Then you say:

> VI. They can be appointed or elected to official
> Offices. Come again? They can't vote for Elected
> officials - because the writer believes they are too
> immature, but they can HOLD OFFICE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You need to read to the end of the sentence. It says
"Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected
to various offices following the limitations of the
Constitution and other laws, but may not be required
to swear an oath for those appointed offices." That
means that if the relevant laws say they can hold
office, they can, and if the relevant laws say they
can't, they can't. Well, the relevant laws currently
say they can't hold elected office, so there's no
inconsistency with the fact that they can't vote in
elections. They are currently allowed to hold minor
appointed offices.

The statement that they don't have to swear any
associated oaths, which you also find puzzling, is to
avoid the possibility, which has been discussed on
this list in the past, that forcing people under 18 to
swear oaths could put us in breach of macronational
laws.

> Now that I have explained the Plain English
> Translation of the LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM, I
> strongly urge all Citizens who care about our Young
> People and want to send them a Lex with a clear,
> consistent message that respects their abilities, to
> all PLEASE VOTE AGAINST THE LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE
> MINORUM !!

And now that I've explained it to you, I hope you'll
decide that some rights are better than none, and
allowing under-18s to be citizens is better than not
allowing them. If you agree, then you'd better vote
*for* this law, because that's exactly what it does.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16941 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Salve

Sounds like a very good idea. It won't make us immune legally, but every little bit helps. Besides, the risk of a lawsuit are so negligible as to be not worth the time we have spent discussing it.
Why would anyone sue us? What would they have to gain - a couple thousand dollars and the intellectual rights to copyrighted material that would be of no use to them whatsoever? No, if anyone sues, it will be against individuals where there is personal Liability insurance, real estate, paychecks and cars to be had. Nobody's going to go after Nova Roma!

Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 6:37 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Truly International Nova Roma

<html><body>


<tt>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"<BR>
<salixastur@y...> wrote:<BR>
> Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.<BR>
> <BR>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <BR>
> <sceptia@y...> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <<snipped>><BR>
> <BR>
> > Maybe is time, and this is an item I gift to the candidates to the <BR>
> > Consulship, to rebuild Nova Roma in the frame of an International <BR>
> > Community not tied to the singular laws of a singular state in a <BR>
> > macronational country. We are from many countries, different Civil <BR>
> > Codes, different laws, but a single wish; to be romans. <BR>
> > Internationally we should get our goals much more than within the <BR>
> > jail of internal procedures of a singular country.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think that I understand very well what you are talking about, <BR>
> Scepti. The problem is that I do not know if it can be done. I am not <BR>
> an expert in that kind of legislation. It certainly would be great if <BR>
> we could do it :-).<BR>
<BR>
The Vatican couldn't do it. It is recognized as an indepedant<BR>
government and has diplomatic relations with the United States, but<BR>
that didn't stop several Catholic priests from being jailed or prevent<BR>
multimillion dollar lawsuits from being filed against the church. THe<BR>
Governments of Iran and Cuba have also been sued in United States<BR>
Courts and they lost.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The way I see it, we have two options: either we register Nova Roma <BR>
> as an international organisation (if that is possible), or we <BR>
> register Nova Roma *both* in the US and in the EU. At least, the <BR>
> second plan is surely feasible.<BR>
<BR>
If we operate in the United States we will be subject to the<BR>
jurisdiction of United States Courts no matter where we are<BR>
incorporated. If we aren't incorporated in the United States any<BR>
magistrates or Senators in the United States can also be personally<BR>
liable for the actions of Nova Roma. Even if our main incorporation is<BR>
outside of the United States we will have to be incorporated as a<BR>
subsidary corporation inside the United States.<BR>
<BR>
I Am a long term suporter of dual incorporation for Nova Roma, both in<BR>
the United States and in the EU. It would ease the legal situation in<BR>
the EU, it would allow us to collect taxes in Euros and have a<BR>
treasury account in the EU. This would save the costs involved in<BR>
money transfers between the USA and the EU. It would also have the<BR>
advantadge of seprating Nova Roma's assets so that all of them<BR>
wouldn't be under the jurisdiction of a single court. An American<BR>
Court would have dificulties siezing assets in the EU, and a EU court<BR>
would have the same problem getting ahold of assets in the USA.<BR>
<BR>
L. Sicinius Drusus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16942 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete,
I'm still trying to catch up on the more than 100 posts over the
weekend, lol.
My oppinion was brief.
As a minor I believe that we should be allowed to interact on the
lists as long as we maintain a level of decorum equall to that of the
Citizens who post (maybe that should be equal to the virtues of Nova
Roma for not all citizens portray those virtues ;)
but we would not be able to vote untill we become of age and are
accepted into a proper Family and citizenship.
To my eyes this subject has gone from an anthill to a mountain but I
guess someone has to keep an eye out for the insignificant petty
topics that would otherwise go unnoticed like grass growing, lol.

What has been done to protect NR up till now?
How has anyone been verified as an adult up to this point in time?
How do other sites protect themselves? Like porn-sites? From what I
know about any on-line site or even software download is that you
click a button that says I agree or I disagree with a disclaimer or
agreement and that covers their arses. Maybe we can do the same?

Some very astute citizen mentioned that someone who is knowledgable
with the Law should be consulted first. It's always best to get the
answers from someone reliable who has the facts and not from some
drugstore lawyer chasing an ambulance just to be heard. I agree,
this way NR is sure there might possibly be an issue before running
half cocked for the hills.
If that has been done and there are legal problems with minors, then
this can go further and those in the position to make choices will
most likely make the best possible choice for NR. If not, once
again, the good citizens of NR have been tied up in red tape chasing
their poodle tails, lol.

I exist here by the pleasure of those in Nova Roma with the brains
and political power to make intelligent decisions. I believe in them
and trust them to do what is best for everyone with no petty or
personal reasons behind that. They have shown themselves to be fair
and forgiving and I will abide by whatever choices they make and
appreciate having a chance to say my part for whatever difference it
makes.

And my many thanks to you for asking what I think and taking the time
to listen and give me a chance. Its people like you that can affect
how people like me turn out when we get older.
Likewise the sorry, sad, dissatisfied and unhappy bitter elders tend
to create similar attitudes in people like me also.
I'm glad there are more people like you around.

Valete in gratius,
Justinian


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor!
>
> It is always best to hear from those who would be most effected
by a piece of legislation.
> I changed my own views on this topic when my friend and "adoptia
filio" Justinian wrote with his opinion (he's 17).
> As you follow the debate, please let me know what your opinions
are: This matters far more to you, my Justinian, and the other
Minorae than it does to the Honourable L S Drusus. So please keep me
informed of your views, so I can argue on behalf of those who will be
most effected by this.
> Wishing you the best always,
> Vale bene
> Servius
Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scriboni89@a...
> Sent: Nov 20, 2003 2:23 PM
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve,<BR>
> <BR>
>     I would like to say that I completely disagree with Senator L.
Sicinius <BR>
> Drusus. Speaking as a minor and an Italian Catholic, I must say
that my parents <BR>
> completely understood what I was joining. I do not see how anyone
would be <BR>
> deceived by the true nature of Nova Roma. Also I don't even agree
about the idea <BR>
> of parents having to join along with their children. If the parent
gives <BR>
> permission the minor should be allowed citizenship. If there are
questions of <BR>
> forgery then have them send a copy of a license along with the
signature. I figure <BR>
> I would give my view on that topic. <BR>
> <BR>
> BENE.VALE.<BR>
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.<BR>
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.<BR>
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.<BR>
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16943 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Remarks about ´Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata´
Salvete quirites,

I made some remarks about Lex Fabia Centuriata... Contra Lex Fabia,
but let me explain before any more disconfort.

I - I did my oposition, but I have no power of Veto on a Consular Law
Proposal.

II - However, I wrote using the ´prestige´ of a magistracy, on other
words, ´I am aedile and you should hear my opinion before voting´.

III - I asked the revision of the Tribunes of the Plebis, as they are
the right magistrates to do this, even more capable than I. They are
looking.

IV - I said to Plebeians vote NO. It is not an order, but a counsel.
Alas, none has this power.

V - You know I like dearest Fabius Quintilianus a lot. But Ate is a
very universal Goddess and affects everyone. As affected king
Agamenon, affected the consul as well. What can I do? Yes, I am sad
with this law. So I am saying ´This law does wrong with the plebeian
aedilship, do not vote´

VI - The final word about a Law Proposal is for Comitia Centuriata.
I´m just trying to show arguments to the electors of the Comitia,
based on NR uses, based on History, why I am against the law. NOTHING
PERSONAL, PLEASE!

VII - I don´t think there is any mistaken from the office of KFQ.
They propose their laws, and we say what we though. I say this law is
not good to the magistracy of the Plebeian Aedilship, specially after
so many efforts to have plebeians aediles for next year, and to make
the plebeians magistracies stronger. That was the image of ´back-
stabing´, strong image, I know, forgive my passionated speech.

VIII - Rethoric is indeed a roman habit. I use some colours on my
discourse, as ever, but I only want this law be denied by the
Comitia. Again, nothing personal. No oposition on the elections, no
taking sides with parties, no official veto, only a ´I disagree for
that, that and that´. As some people will show me arguments pro and I
will try to reply. Normal, OK? Alas, I´m also subjected to Ate
sometimes.

IX - My emotions, besides affects my words, have no power. If I am
upset, if I am happy, the final decision is from the Comitia
Centuriata. To approve or not is its power. To obey is our duty.

(But if you agree with me, vote NO, OK?)

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Besides you offended me with your ironic, thing that as a
magistrate
> I do not tolerate, because I never make this kind of attack. So, I
> demand your apologies.
>
> I. The Plebeian Class has historically some things more than the
> others. Why? Because of the ancient fight of the Plebs on the
> Ancient. There is no Faustus, but History. If NR wants to follow
the
> Ancient, it has to be done.
>
> II. ONLY on NR there is this difference. If you read the ancient
> texts of Livius and Cassius, there was no difference real between
the
> aedilships, except the curule chair. So why the aedilship of the
> plebis cannot count with this? Alas, ´lesser authority´ is not
clear
> on Constitution, so it is your interpretation.
>
> For this, I urge Plebeians Citizens to VOTE NO for Lex Fabia
> Centuriata, and urge the Tribune Plebis to study this matter
> carefully.
>
> For my honor, for the honor of the plebeians, this law cannot count
> with my support, but with my bitter disappointment for this
> unnecessary proposal now.
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Senior Plebeian Aedile
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:
> > | Why making a gap so great between two equal magistracies that
> > | worked with Concordia and had literally the SAME work?
> >
> > Salve, Luci Armini Fauste.
> >
> > They may, generally, be doing rather similar work; However, the
two
> > magistracies have never been equal. Here are the differences,
> according
> > to the constitution:
> >
> > 1. Aediles Curulis hold Imperium; Aediles Plebis don't.
> > 2. Aediles Curulis can pronounce intercessio against anoter
aedile,
> > curule OR plebeian; Aediles Plebis can only pronounce intercessio
> > against other Aediles Plebis (Both can pronounce intercessio
against
> > "magistrates of lesser authority)
> > 3. Aediles Curulis are charged with maintaining the venues where
the
> > Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property.
> It is
> > the responsibility of the Curule Aediles to report any changes of
> the
> > Ordo Equaestor to the Censors.
> >
> > Clearly, the "honors, powers and obligations" of the Aedilis
> Curulis are
> > a superset of those of the Aediles Plebis, making the former a
> greater
> > authority. As such, it makes sense, constitutionally as well as
> > logically, to award Aediles Curulis more for their time of
service
> to
> > the republic.
> >
> > I hope I made sense? I've just come from a math class, so I might
> be a
> > bit up in the blue. :/
> >
> > Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
> >
> > - --
> >
> > "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> > iD8DBQE/wh4MAGtgaSonkUoRAuCvAJ4s5v80EuY4zKdNjwV5WDKt0CGB9gCfcgVm
> > 60hGYSDKydk/XLtTas2/aM0=
> > =cMKY
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16944 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve Amice!

Wonderful! Please do it!

>F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S. P. D.
>
>Both the C. Fabius Quintilianus and Diana Moravia have been very
>strongly in favor of more vigorous recruiting in many of their
>previous posts and I wanted to make a suggestion.
>In March 2004, Champion Video Productions are doing a trailer here
>in Nashville during the last weekend of the month. Over 120 Roman
>military & civilian reenactors have committed to being here for
>this. On Sunday, there will be a Roman Faire open to the general
>public that is being promoted by the state, city, and CVP.
>If we can get a good presentation put together that includes photos,
>pamphlets, flags, articles, items, and several NR citizens, then
>Nova Roma should have a booth. I can supply the pavilion, chairs,
>and a table (along with some books and a small altar) for this. If
>anyone is interested in assisting on this, please let me know so I
>can begin making the arrangements now. Vale.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16945 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Salve,

You are overlooking other reasons to file a civil suit, like vengence.

We have had people leave Nova Roma on very bad terms in the past,
usually as a result of losing some political dispute. One of these
former citizens went as far as attempting to have another Roman
organization declare Nova Roma Nefastas.

Monatary gain isn't the only reason people file lawsuits.

L. Sicinius Drusus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve
>
> Sounds like a very good idea. It won't make us immune legally,
but every little bit helps. Besides, the risk of a lawsuit are so
negligible as to be not worth the time we have spent discussing it.
> Why would anyone sue us? What would they have to gain - a couple
thousand dollars and the intellectual rights to copyrighted material
that would be of no use to them whatsoever? No, if anyone sues, it
will be against individuals where there is personal Liability
insurance, real estate, paychecks and cars to be had. Nobody's going
to go after Nova Roma!
>
> Vale
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@y...>
> Sent: Nov 20, 2003 6:37 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"<BR>
> <salixastur@y...> wrote:<BR>
> > Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <BR>
> > <sceptia@y...> wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <<snipped>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Maybe is time, and this is an item I gift to the candidates to
the <BR>
> > > Consulship, to rebuild Nova Roma in the frame of an
International <BR>
> > > Community not tied to the singular laws of a singular state in a
<BR>
> > > macronational country. We are from many countries, different
Civil <BR>
> > > Codes, different laws, but a single wish; to be romans. <BR>
> > > Internationally we should get our goals much more than within
the <BR>
> > > jail of internal procedures of a singular country.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I think that I understand very well what you are talking about, <BR>
> > Scepti. The problem is that I do not know if it can be done. I am
not <BR>
> > an expert in that kind of legislation. It certainly would be great
if <BR>
> > we could do it :-).<BR>
> <BR>
> The Vatican couldn't do it. It is recognized as an indepedant<BR>
> government and has diplomatic relations with the United States, but<BR>
> that didn't stop several Catholic priests from being jailed or
prevent<BR>
> multimillion dollar lawsuits from being filed against the church.
THe<BR>
> Governments of Iran and Cuba have also been sued in United States<BR>
> Courts and they lost.<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > The way I see it, we have two options: either we register Nova
Roma <BR>
> > as an international organisation (if that is possible), or we <BR>
> > register Nova Roma *both* in the US and in the EU. At least, the <BR>
> > second plan is surely feasible.<BR>
> <BR>
> If we operate in the United States we will be subject to the<BR>
> jurisdiction of United States Courts no matter where we are<BR>
> incorporated. If we aren't incorporated in the United States any<BR>
> magistrates or Senators in the United States can also be personally<BR>
> liable for the actions of Nova Roma. Even if our main incorporation
is<BR>
> outside of the United States we will have to be incorporated as a<BR>
> subsidary corporation inside the United States.<BR>
> <BR>
> I Am a long term suporter of dual incorporation for Nova Roma, both
in<BR>
> the United States and in the EU. It would ease the legal situation
in<BR>
> the EU, it would allow us to collect taxes in Euros and have a<BR>
> treasury account in the EU. This would save the costs involved in<BR>
> money transfers between the USA and the EU. It would also have the<BR>
> advantadge of seprating Nova Roma's assets so that all of them<BR>
> wouldn't be under the jurisdiction of a single court. An American<BR>
> Court would have dificulties siezing assets in the EU, and a EU
court<BR>
> would have the same problem getting ahold of assets in the USA.<BR>
> <BR>
> L. Sicinius Drusus<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16946 From: Galus Agorius Taurinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Eleusinion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16947 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik <ben@c...> wrote:

> My apologies for not making myself clearer (for some reason, I've
> not done well at being denotational over the past day or two.) My
> response was as much to the original poster, Servius Equitius
> Mercurius Troianus, as it was to you; I was trying to reply to the
> main thrust of his argument as well as responding to the point you
> were making in your response to him. Perhaps I should have replied
> to the two posts separately.

Perhaps it was my fault for not reading your post more carefully.

> To lay it out a bit more, I'm saying that the original poster was
> conflating the current status of minors in NR with the additions
> proposed in this Lex, as well as not taking cognizance of the
> relevant key fact with regard to the so-called "legal problems"
> (lack of authentication.) I agree with your statement that the Gens
> system needs to be changed, and realize that it will change in
> time; I am also making an additional point: we will need relevant
> laws when that does occur.
> These laws will be *of necessity* different from the laws we need
> today, which must reflect the situation in Nova Roma as she is
> currently.

I can not help but agree with you, since what you are saying makes
sense.

The problem of the lack of authentication is one that has been in my
mind for some time as well. In the past, I have brought it to the
attention of this forum. After much discussion and thought, I have
come to the conclusion that there is no simple solution to that
problem. The evident solution (scanning IDs and sending them through
the net) is apparently illegal.

If any of you, citizens, has a new idea about that subject, please
share with all of us.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16948 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Salvete Quirites; et salve, A. Apolloni.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> As I read this an idea suddenly popped into my head
> which might enable us to do that. I wish I'd thought
> of it earlier, but for what it's worth I'll offer it
> to the candidates for consul so that they can, if they
> like it, put it into effect next year.
>
> It could be done by:
>
> 1. Enacting this proposed law as it stands
>
> 2. Adding a new provision to the lex Salica Poenalis
> which would allow accensi and scribae to be prosecuted
> for not doing the work they were appointed to do, the
> penalty being that they would be deprived of their
> century points for that appointment.
>
> If this were done, those who worked would get the
> points they deserve, and there would be a mechanism to
> ensure that those who didn't deserve them could have
> them taken away.

That idea sounds pretty well to my ears. It could be a system to
avoid the gratuituous awarding of century points.

Please remind me when the elections are over, Aule Apolloni.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16949 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Salvete all,

As we now can vote for two candidates at the same time (and there are two open positions for Praetor) at this time I would like to offer my support to two fine Praetorial candidates:

Decimus Iunius Silanus and Marcus Arminius Maior

Decimus Iunius Silanus is currently a Quaestor and the Provincial Governor of Brittannia. Perfoming both these positions excellently, he is obviously a hard worker and dedicated to our Republic! At the recent meeting in Britannia, he impressed everyone present with his charm, intelligence, dedication and good nature. Besides all that, he has an easy going nature because he never gets annoyed with me when I publicly confuse him for his Paterfamilias confused :-p He will certainly make a great Praetor! Vote for Decimus Iunius Silanus!!

Marcus Arminius Maior is a another wonderful candidate. Anyone who has ever had contact with him knows that he is a gentleman and is always willing to help his fellow citizens. He may have forgotten it, but I clearly remember when he was a Tribune before me in 2755, he offered his help to the new Tribunes unselfishly. He gave us lots of good advice and tips to start us off in the right direction. Vote for Marcus Arminius!!

I see also that we have a 3rd candidate although I haven't seen any candidacy speech from him: Marcus Minucius Audens. The newer citizens may not know who he is because he hasn't been around much on the Mainlist this year. I met him in June and like everyone else was quite impressed with him. He is certainly a man not to be forgotten easily! Although I do like him a lot, I cannot support him. Unless he has recently purchased a computer, he is using webtv, which I know from experience allows one to view maybe 10 emails per hour (and that is not including reading them!). So I think with webtv it is impossible to read up to 150 or so emails per day and to approve emails that need moderating in a timely matter. In any case, Marcus Minucius Audens is already a Senator and involved with a few Soladitas so it isn't as it not being a Praetor would leave him 'unemployed' in Nova Roma!!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16950 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete all,
Salve Salix,

Actually it is kind of nice that all 3 consular candidates are the same wavelength with so many
things. There's not much to argue about :-)) That said, I can put to gether a nice English brochure
by the end of the month.

Something else that we need to do is get these brochures translated in local languages. Our website
is already translated into various languages. All we need is someone who speaks those languages to
copy paste things into a document in a manner that makes sense.

Language is an important part of the cultural identity of every country. So we need to get brochures
in as many languages as possible and websites in as many languages as possible. We have the manpower
and the international community of citizens, now it is time to crack the whip (so to speak:-) and
start putting some of these fine multi-lingual citizens to work :-)

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16951 From: Spurius Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Salve Fauste,

Though I am on the Consul's staff, I must admit that I took no part in the
writing of this law, so I cannot say that I know the exact reasons for the
differences of Century Points. However, should he have seen more duties for the
Curules than the Plebeians, I think it would most likely be in the fact that
the Curules are responsible for overseeing the Macellum, whereas the
Plebeians are not. If you look into the archives of the Main List, you will find that
there was a great controversy over some edicts promulgated to handle aspects
of the Macellum under the superintendance of the Curule Aediles. This duty
can become very time consuming, and therefore, perhaps, make the office more
deserving of points. So, Fauste amice, I ask you, do not vote against this
lex. It was designed to be fair and equitable given the amount of service
necessary to fufill the duties of various offices. It does this. Vote for this
equity.

Vale,

Spurius Postumius Tubertus

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16952 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
Salve Cordus,

> 2. Adding a new provision to the lex Salica Poenalis
> which would allow accensi and scribae to be prosecuted
> for not doing the work they were appointed to do, the
> penalty being that they would be deprived of their
> century points for that appointment.

<I'll offer it
<to the candidates for consul so that they can, if they
<like it, put it into effect next year.

For my part, no thanks. There is a much simpler way, which is how we curently do it: The magistrate
can just relaease his scriba or assenci from his duties.
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16953 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 18:05, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> I still have a record of everyone who asked me for a
> copy the first time round, so I'll send them all a
> copy soon, but first I thought I'd see whether there's
> anyone else who'd like to be added to my list.
Salve,
I'd like a copy too, si vis
Vale
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16954 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete

Per ancient Roman Law, the ages were 12 for Females, 14 for Males. We might want to compromise and call it 13.

Valete

- S E M T

-----Original Message-----
From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia <livia_cornelia_hibernia@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 9:51 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve,<BR>
<BR>
There already are age restrictions on elected offices, the lowest age <BR>
currently is, I believe, 21. <BR>
<BR>
I am, however, unclear as to whether those who are not sui iuris <BR>
would be allowed to vote.  I think that, as in both the macronational <BR>
world today and in Ancient Rome, there should be a minimum voting age.<BR>
Furthermore, I personnaly feel that if an individual is not legally <BR>
free to make their own life-decisisions (that is, is not sui iuris), <BR>
then they should not vote, whether it be in Nova Roma or in their <BR>
macronation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Livia Cornelia Hibernia<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Cassius Pontonius" <BR>
<pontonius@h...> wrote:<BR>
> Should those listed as not sui iuris be allowed to hold offices? <BR>
Would there be any restrictions on those underage? What about the <BR>
taxes?<BR>
> <BR>
>  I am still getting a feel for the various positons and such in NR, <BR>
so a further explanation on this matter would be much appreicated.<BR>
> <BR>
> Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
> <BR>
> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a><BR>
>   ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
>   From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <BR>
>   To: Nova Roma Main List <BR>
>   Cc: NR Announce <BR>
>   Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:18 PM<BR>
>   Subject: [Nova-Roma] LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>   Salvete Quirites!<BR>
> <BR>
>   This Lex Fabia de Civitate Minorum is presented to the Comitia <BR>
>   Centuriata to adopt into law the current status quo to allow <BR>
Impubes <BR>
>   to become citizens with their parents support and to improve and <BR>
>   clarify the legal position of impuberes in Nova Rom.<BR>
> <BR>
>   ************************<BR>
> <BR>
>   LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM<BR>
> <BR>
>   I. For the purpose of this lex, sui iuris shall mean a person of <BR>
age <BR>
>   greater than or equal to eighteen (18) years of age.<BR>
> <BR>
>   II. The Lex Vedia de Liberis Civium is hereby rescinded.<BR>
> <BR>
>   III. Section II.a. of the Constitution is henceforth amended to <BR>
read:<BR>
> <BR>
>   "a. Citizenship<BR>
> <BR>
>   1. Any person may apply for Citizenship.<BR>
> <BR>
>   2. Citizens may apply for Citizenship on behalf of their children <BR>
or <BR>
>   legal wards (as defined by relevant macronational law) whom are <BR>
not <BR>
>   sui iuris.<BR>
> <BR>
>   3. No person may be withheld from attaining Citizenship, <BR>
regardless <BR>
>   of ethnic heritage, gender, religious affiliation, or sexual <BR>
>   orientation.<BR>
> <BR>
>   4. Those who have applied for Citizenship and are not sui iuris <BR>
may <BR>
>   be granted Citizenship, but only when written permission of such <BR>
an <BR>
>   applicant's parent or legal guardian (as defined by relevant <BR>
>   macronational law) has been submitted to and recieved by the <BR>
Censors <BR>
>   through whatever means deemed appropriate by edict.<BR>
> <BR>
>   5. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that <BR>
shall <BR>
>   be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by <BR>
>   notification of the censors or by public statement before three <BR>
or <BR>
>   more witnesses. Those citizens who are not sui iuris may have <BR>
their <BR>
>   Citizenship relinquished on their behalf by their parent or legal <BR>
>   guardian (as defined by relevant macronational law) by <BR>
notification <BR>
>   of the censors or by public statement before three or more <BR>
witnesses."<BR>
> <BR>
>   IV. The following shall be inserted as Section II.c. of the <BR>
Constitution:<BR>
>   "c. The rights of Paragraphs II.b.2, II.b.4, II.b.6, and II.b.7 <BR>
shall <BR>
>   be guaranteed, however not at the exclusion of whatever other <BR>
rights <BR>
>   such citizens may possess, to those citizens not yet sui iuris. <BR>
Those <BR>
>   rights of Paragraphs II.b.1 and II.b.5 may be exercised on the <BR>
behalf <BR>
>   of citizens not sui iuris by their respective materfamilias or <BR>
>   paterfamilias. Those citizens not sui iuris shall not have the <BR>
rights <BR>
>   of Paragraphs II.b.3 and II.b.8."<BR>
> <BR>
>   V. Citizens not sui iuris may be appointed and elected to various <BR>
>   offices following the limitations of the Constitution and other <BR>
laws, <BR>
>   but may not be required to swear an oath for those appointed <BR>
offices. <BR>
>   However, such citizens may swear an oath if they so choose.<BR>
> <BR>
>   VI. Those citizens not sui iuris shall remain to be known as <BR>
>   Impuberes (sing. impubes).<BR>
> <BR>
>   VII. This lex shall become effective immedeately.<BR>
> <BR>
>   -- <BR>
> <BR>
>   Vale<BR>
> <BR>
>   Caeso Fabius Quintilianus<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16955 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Couched in the way you have phrased it, it would SEEM a harmless, genuine inquiry, but the way you (& others) have gone on and on about it indicates that REALLY you are just annoyed at having Marinus in the race presumably posing a threat to another candidate that you favour.
All that I can say to that is:
HE CHANGED HIS MIND, AS IS HIS RIGHT. GET OVER IT! IF YOU PREFER SOMEONE ELSE, THEN DEBATE REAL ISSUES!!

-- SERVIUS EQUITIUS MERCURIUS TROIANUS

-----Original Message-----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 7:27 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

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<tt>
Salve,<BR>
<BR>
I have a question.<BR>
<BR>
In <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/14426">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/14426</a><BR>
you stated: <BR>
<BR>
"Not this fall. I've already declared that I shall follow the<BR>
mos maiorum and not engage in continuatio. Next year the only<BR>
magistracy I intend to hold is the governorship of my province.<BR>
<BR>
-- Marinus"<BR>
<BR>
Now you are standing for Consul.  What made you change your mind and<BR>
disregard the mos maiorum on the matter of continuatio? <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Q. Cassius Calvus<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16956 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S. P. D.

I still believe that the minor positions of accensi ordinarii do not need to be awarded points at all and have said so since I became one. As an accensus I gained more from my time serving the Senior Consul than points, I gained a better understanding of how our system of government works and what kind of dedication is needed. This gave me the momentum to stand for the office of rogator. However, an appointed accensus doesn't really need points nor should the leges be complicated with amendments about what to do if a scriba or accensus doesn't do his/her job. Their magistrate should just privately dismiss them from their position and publicly announce the person is no longer an accensus or scriba. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16957 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Amice!

>Salvete,
>
>This a deep sadness I must urge citizens, specially plebeians, to
>vote NO against Lex Fabia Centuriata.
>
>This law without necessity lowers the Plebeian Aedile. It lowers the
>dignity of the Plebeian Aedilship on the Res Publica. It violates
>the roman tradition. It takes away the equality of the Collegium
>Aediles. It is a deny to the necessities and importance of the
>Plebis. I urge the Tribunes of the Plebis to do a strong action,
>even a veto.
>
>Why making a gap so great between two equal magistracies that worked
>with Concordia and had literally the SAME work?
>

My friend Illustrus Titus Octavius Pius has already given You a very
good explanation for this. I am sure that is was not his intention to
be impolite, but he tried to explained how I have been thinking. As
he says it is just a try to weigh all things together and then the
weight of the Curule Aedile became heavier as I see it.

>On a time the the plebeians made a common rush to have good
>candidates to its aedilship, this law is a back-stabing on our neck.

Please take a new look at the _whole_ proposal before You say it is
bad for the Plebeians! The Plebeians have also GAINED by this law.
;-) The Tribunes have been lifted to the double CP, from the same
level as the Quaestores to the same level as the Praetores. This
means that the twelve Plebeian magistrates gain 4 points on the
Aediles (4 less than the Curule Aediles I admit), BUT the Tribunes
will gain _50_ points. So as I see it the Plebeians GAIN by this law.

I hope You can forgive me giving the Plebeian Aediles 4 points less
than the Curule Aediles as I am strengthening the Tribunes _very_
much?

>This is time of elections, and I would like to come here to smile
>and say nice things, but Ceres, goddess of Plebeian Class, would
>punish me if I let it pass without do anything against this attempt
>to lower of importance of the Plebeain Class. Not on the magistracy
>of L. Arminius Faustus!
>
>Tu quoque, Quintiliane? Why?
>
>
>Valete,
>L. Arminius Faustus
>Senior Plebeian Aedile
>
>
>
>
>L. Arminius Faustus
>
>Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,
>
>Interpreter (lingua lusitaniae), Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae.
>
>Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html
>
>
>
>"I too in words could fight even Immortals..."
>
>Iliad, Homer, book XX
>
>The answer of Hector about Achilles' speeches.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Mail - 6MB, anti-spam e antivírus gratuito. Crie sua conta agora!
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16958 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Salve,

It is a fair question to ask for a reason when a person says one thing
then later does another. It's called accountability. The question
was asked, he answered, and I thanked him for his answer. I did the
same when Sulla was Consul and he vetoed bringing forward legislation
concerning gens reform. I asked him for his reasons. He answer. I
thanked him for his answer and let it be.

Please read http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/16855

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>
> Couched in the way you have phrased it, it would SEEM a harmless,
genuine inquiry, but the way you (& others) have gone on and on about
it indicates that REALLY you are just annoyed at having Marinus in the
race presumably posing a threat to another candidate that you favour.
> All that I can say to that is:
> HE CHANGED HIS MIND, AS IS HIS RIGHT. GET OVER IT! IF YOU PREFER
SOMEONE ELSE, THEN DEBATE REAL ISSUES!!
>
> -- SERVIUS EQUITIUS MERCURIUS TROIANUS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...>
> Sent: Nov 20, 2003 7:27 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve,<BR>
> <BR>
> I have a question.<BR>
> <BR>
> In <a
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/14426">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/14426</a><BR>
> you stated: <BR>
> <BR>
> "Not this fall. I've already declared that I shall follow the<BR>
> mos maiorum and not engage in continuatio. Next year the only<BR>
> magistracy I intend to hold is the governorship of my province.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- Marinus"<BR>
> <BR>
> Now you are standing for Consul. What made you change your mind and<BR>
> disregard the mos maiorum on the matter of continuatio? <BR>
> <BR>
> Vale,<BR>
> <BR>
> Q. Cassius Calvus<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16959 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
[posted with copy to SEMT]

Salvete quiretes,

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus addressed Quintus
Cassius Calvus:
> Couched in the way you have phrased it, [...]

Woah hoss! Back off there. I know you're trying to help
but Calvus is a good guy. He was absolutely indispensible
to me last summer when I held a simulated election that
required the rogators to jump through about a dozen new
hoops. I take his question as an honest inquiry, unlike
the one that came from the forged identity.

If Calvus thinks I ought not to be elected, he'll say so.
Thus far he hasn't, and I think I've satisfied his question.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16960 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
That should be changed as it is historically inaccurate: Males were considered Adult at age 14, females at age 12. An age of 13 would be a reasonable compromise, but allowing them no vote is unreasonable.

- S E M T

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 11:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
<BR>
> I am, however, unclear as to whether those who are not sui iuris<BR>
> would be allowed to vote.  I think that, as in both the macronational<BR>
> world today and in Ancient Rome, there should be a minimum voting age.<BR>
<BR>
They are not; the program that assigns the voter codes will skip<BR>
over anyone under 18.<BR>
<BR>
Vale, O.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.<BR>
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com/">http://www.graveyards.com/</a><BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16961 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
No. Various successful Porn sites have already set the legal precedent: We require them to essentially electronically swear that they are 18 or older, and if they do so then we cannot be held accountable. It is not realistic to expect a virtual organization to go door to door and verify the age of members. So long as we ask, we're covered.

- S E M T

-----Original Message-----
From: Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 11:16 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete, omnes -<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 10:30:41PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:<BR>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:<BR>
> > Salve,<BR>
> > If the parent gives <BR>
> > permission the minor should be allowed citizenship. If there are<BR>
> questions of <BR>
> > forgery then have them send a copy of a license along with the<BR>
> signature. I figure <BR>
> > I would give my view on that topic. <BR>
> <BR>
> Salve,<BR>
> <BR>
> Unfortunately the transmission of such copies is illegal in many<BR>
> jurisdictions.  The Censors, for better or worse, have to rely on the<BR>
> fact that most people are honest.  <BR>
<BR>
Which, of course, brings up a non-controllable issue that's much larger<BR>
than anything resulting from this Lex: we could have a few hundred<BR>
minors sign up without their parents permission, and in fact against<BR>
their parents' wishes, simply by stating that they're all of age. The<BR>
grounds for a lawsuit, if that was a real concern, would be the same.<BR>
Game, set, match - and, according to the the lawsuit-fearing mentality,<BR>
end of Nova Roma.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone been scared into staying in bed yet? :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Valete,<BR>
Caius Minucius Scaevola<BR>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<BR>
Dictum, factum.<BR>
Said and done.<BR>
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16962 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Salve Faustus, Amice,
sorry, I agree with Tubertus. Yes I'm a Curule Aedile but you know
that I appreciate the job of the Plebeian colleague and I tried to
create close collaborations between the Offices. The Office of the
Plebeian is very important but less than the Curule Aedile in the
ancient Rome.
However the Costitution and the Laws give to the Curule Aedile more
duties and powers. Tubertus talked about the "maintaining the venues
of teh Ordo Equester" and I add the first point of par. IV.A.5 in
the costitution: "To hold Imperium".
And remember that in Nova Roma the Curule Aedile can use the
Aedilician Fund to raise money for detailed and authorized projects.
He's responsible of the money in front of the Senate. The Plebeian
Aedile can't do it.
I don't know why this law give to the Curule Aedile 8 points more
than the Plebeian but I think the law is costitutionally correct,
only the citizens can refuse it.

Vale bene
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Spurius Postumius Tubertus"
<princeps_senator@g...> wrote:
> Salve Fauste,
>
> Though I am on the Consul's staff, I must admit that I took no
part in the
> writing of this law, so I cannot say that I know the exact reasons
for the
> differences of Century Points. However, should he have seen more
duties for the
> Curules than the Plebeians, I think it would most likely be in the
fact that
> the Curules are responsible for overseeing the Macellum, whereas
the
> Plebeians are not. If you look into the archives of the Main List,
you will find that
> there was a great controversy over some edicts promulgated to
handle aspects
> of the Macellum under the superintendance of the Curule Aediles.
This duty
> can become very time consuming, and therefore, perhaps, make the
office more
> deserving of points. So, Fauste amice, I ask you, do not vote
against this
> lex. It was designed to be fair and equitable given the amount of
service
> necessary to fufill the duties of various offices. It does this.
Vote for this
> equity.
>
> Vale,
>
> Spurius Postumius Tubertus
>
> --
> NEU FÜR ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - für Fotos, Musik, Dateien...
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16963 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Well said Justinian !

Now who wants to kick him out ? He speaks better than most of us oldies here
! Justinian should be an example rather than the subject of
discrimination...

Valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
http://www.users.tinyworld.co.uk/laurenttriangle/index.htm
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Trajan Justinian [mailto:harrituspotterus1@...]
Sent: 24 November 2003 18:51
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM


Salvete,
I'm still trying to catch up on the more than 100 posts over the
weekend, lol.
My oppinion was brief.
As a minor I believe that we should be allowed to interact on the
lists as long as we maintain a level of decorum equall to that of the
Citizens who post (maybe that should be equal to the virtues of Nova
Roma for not all citizens portray those virtues ;)
but we would not be able to vote untill we become of age and are
accepted into a proper Family and citizenship.
To my eyes this subject has gone from an anthill to a mountain but I
guess someone has to keep an eye out for the insignificant petty
topics that would otherwise go unnoticed like grass growing, lol.

What has been done to protect NR up till now?
How has anyone been verified as an adult up to this point in time?
How do other sites protect themselves? Like porn-sites? From what I
know about any on-line site or even software download is that you
click a button that says I agree or I disagree with a disclaimer or
agreement and that covers their arses. Maybe we can do the same?

Some very astute citizen mentioned that someone who is knowledgable
with the Law should be consulted first. It's always best to get the
answers from someone reliable who has the facts and not from some
drugstore lawyer chasing an ambulance just to be heard. I agree,
this way NR is sure there might possibly be an issue before running
half cocked for the hills.
If that has been done and there are legal problems with minors, then
this can go further and those in the position to make choices will
most likely make the best possible choice for NR. If not, once
again, the good citizens of NR have been tied up in red tape chasing
their poodle tails, lol.

I exist here by the pleasure of those in Nova Roma with the brains
and political power to make intelligent decisions. I believe in them
and trust them to do what is best for everyone with no petty or
personal reasons behind that. They have shown themselves to be fair
and forgiving and I will abide by whatever choices they make and
appreciate having a chance to say my part for whatever difference it
makes.

And my many thanks to you for asking what I think and taking the time
to listen and give me a chance. Its people like you that can affect
how people like me turn out when we get older.
Likewise the sorry, sad, dissatisfied and unhappy bitter elders tend
to create similar attitudes in people like me also.
I'm glad there are more people like you around.

Valete in gratius,
Justinian


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor!
>
> It is always best to hear from those who would be most effected
by a piece of legislation.
> I changed my own views on this topic when my friend and "adoptia
filio" Justinian wrote with his opinion (he's 17).
> As you follow the debate, please let me know what your opinions
are: This matters far more to you, my Justinian, and the other
Minorae than it does to the Honourable L S Drusus. So please keep me
informed of your views, so I can argue on behalf of those who will be
most effected by this.
> Wishing you the best always,
> Vale bene
> Servius
Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scriboni89@a...
> Sent: Nov 20, 2003 2:23 PM
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salve,<BR>
> <BR>
>     I would like to say that I completely disagree with Senator L.
Sicinius <BR>
> Drusus. Speaking as a minor and an Italian Catholic, I must say
that my parents <BR>
> completely understood what I was joining. I do not see how anyone
would be <BR>
> deceived by the true nature of Nova Roma. Also I don't even agree
about the idea <BR>
> of parents having to join along with their children. If the parent
gives <BR>
> permission the minor should be allowed citizenship. If there are
questions of <BR>
> forgery then have them send a copy of a license along with the
signature. I figure <BR>
> I would give my view on that topic. <BR>
> <BR>
> BENE.VALE.<BR>
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.<BR>
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.<BR>
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.<BR>
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16964 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Question for the candidates for Consul 2756
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Tiberius,

> 4) Clearly giving those religiously inclined guidance in organizing
an open ritual. This could
> include the ritual (with help from the Collegium Pontificium) , and
then cheap wine or punch
> aftrwards with cookies and cheap cakes afterwards.

Salve,

We tried something similiar here in Nova Brittania to give a
workshop/lecture during Pagan Pride Days here in Eastern MA.
Unfortunately due to our being late in finding out about the event,
the workshop spaces had already filled up. But there is next year.
I'm sure there are plenty of Pagan Pride type events that are
reasonably close to others in NR that practice the Religio.

> In Belgium I organize the yearly Beltane ritual.
> We usually get 75 people and about
> 15 new (paying!) members afterwards. I don't participate in the
ritual itself (it is usually
> pretty wiccan) but instead I make my famous May punch (25%vodka, 50
> 50 grapejuice, 25 % cranberry juice and lots of fruit) and serve the
cookies and peanuts :-) The
> costs are 3 USD per person and that includes all you can drink.
> Kids are free and drink the no alcohol version of the puch. Again
cheap so the whole family can
> attend!

Don't try this in the US of A. You'll need a liquor license to serve
alcoholic bevies and not to mention the liability if someone gets
toasted and drives into a tree or worse someone else on the way home.

Vale,


Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16965 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Salvete,

Dixit Diana : "Decimus Iunius Silanus is currently a Quaestor and the
Provincial Governor of Brittannia. Perfoming both these positions
excellently, he is obviously a hard worker and dedicated to our Republic! At
the recent meeting in Britannia, he impressed everyone present with his
charm, intelligence, dedication and good nature."

I concur wholeheartidly ! I, for one, was definitely impressed with his
charm ;-). As for is intelligence, I don't know, I couldn't get my eyes off
his heavenly figure LOL

GO on citizens, VOTE SILANUS

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
http://www.users.tinyworld.co.uk/laurenttriangle/index.htm
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina [mailto:diana@...]
Sent: 24 November 2003 20:10
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!


Marcus Arminius Maior is a another wonderful candidate. Anyone who has ever
had contact with him knows that he is a gentleman and is always willing to
help his fellow citizens. He may have forgotten it, but I clearly remember
when he was a Tribune before me in 2755, he offered his help to the new
Tribunes unselfishly. He gave us lots of good advice and tips to start us
off in the right direction. Vote for Marcus Arminius!!

I see also that we have a 3rd candidate although I haven't seen any
candidacy speech from him: Marcus Minucius Audens. The newer citizens may
not know who he is because he hasn't been around much on the Mainlist this
year. I met him in June and like everyone else was quite impressed with him.
He is certainly a man not to be forgotten easily! Although I do like him a
lot, I cannot support him. Unless he has recently purchased a computer, he
is using webtv, which I know from experience allows one to view maybe 10
emails per hour (and that is not including reading them!). So I think with
webtv it is impossible to read up to 150 or so emails per day and to approve
emails that need moderating in a timely matter. In any case, Marcus
Minucius Audens is already a Senator and involved with a few Soladitas so it
isn't as it not being a Praetor would leave him 'unemployed' in Nova Roma!!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16966 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Titus Pius,

My biggest complaint with the Lex Fabia Centuriata is the same as it was before it was re-worked.
The definitions of the 'rank' officials has again not been clarified.
That said, I support my Plebeian colleague Lucius Arminius Faustus in his statement that the Lex
Centuriata lowers the dignity of the Plebeian Aedilship on the Res Republica since the Curule Aedile
would receive more points then the Plebeian Aedile even though they do the same work.

<2. Aediles Curulis can pronounce intercessio against anoter aedile,
<curule OR plebeian; Aediles Plebis can only pronounce intercessio
<against other Aediles Plebis (Both can pronounce intercessio against
<"magistrates of lesser authority)

Using you argument then the Tribunes should receive a lot more century points than a Provincial
Governor, since the Tribunes can veto everyone and a Provincial Governor cannot veto anything. In
the new lex, both positions will get 20 points. Come to think of it, if the century points are
directly linked to vetoing power, than the Tribunes should get more than a Consules!

> 3. Aediles Curulis are charged with maintaining the venues where the
> Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is
> the responsibility of the Curule Aediles to report any changes of the
> Ordo Equaestor to the Censors.

This point is moot considering that there is no property of Nova Roma engaged in commerce.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Candidate for Consul 2757
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16967 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Candidate for Quaestor
M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS S P D

Cives it's a honor for me to announce my candidacy as Quaestor for the year
2757 AVC.

I am 35 years old, Roman, Italian and a Novaroman patrician since 11
January 2002.
Outside Nova Roma I am a project manager in a software house, owned by a
national bank. I have a University diploma in Statistics and I've been a
soldier for three years (Lieutenant in the Italian army).

This is a brief curriculum vitae in Nova Roma:

2755 - Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae

2756 - Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Historicus Primus of Cohors Aedilis Curulis
- Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Curatoris Differum for The Eagle

In this personal page I've put all the information to know better who I
am in Nova Roma and what I have done in the past two years:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius


Why do I think I can be the right person as a Quaestor?

A Novaroman sees in the Cursus Honorum the better way to express his
dedication to Rome and Her ideals. And, after two years, I feel it's the
time to climb the first step!
Some of you could witness that, whenever I offered my help, I was able to
organize games during the ludi, write articles on regular basis, study and
publish detailed reports on many different topics, either inside or outside
my province.

But let me explain another perspective:
as Scriba ad Historiam first, and then as Scriba Historicus Primus , I have
followed the Magna Mater project from the very beginning, working for our
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (as Curule Aedile for 2755) and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar (current year).

Thanks to the possibility to visit the Temple and, why not, thanks to my
competence, I have fullfilled many duties the project needed.

To whom is not concerned about this, during these last two years I have
produced detailed reports on the Temple of Cybele and its bureaucratic
situation, going on the Palatine hill several times (last time it was just
15 days ago) and meeting important people.
Next year we need to develop a close collaboration with them! It is the
chance Nova Roma has to hurl its name in the scholar world and make
something with a living project on a real Roman monument! Again, this means
Nova Roma to be known in the academic environment.

As a Quaestor I promise to follow the Magna Mater project at best, myself
a person with a two years experience on this topic, and offer my job to
a magistrate who sees the goal we are aiming.
Things will be even better, as I am moving back to my beloved city, Rome,
and could have personal contact with these sholars and managers on a regular
basis. (see the Post Scriptum below for more information****).

This is why I think I should be a Quaestor for year 2757, and invite you
all to vote for me.

Of course any of you could send here or privately questions and to have
information. It will be my pleasure to answer them all.

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

PS
****This last period was much more fruitful: I met D.ssa Irene Iacopi,
chief of the Roman Forum and Palatine archeological areas; one month later
I met Prof. Patrizio Pensabene of the University of Rome. With both of them
have concluded generic agreements and shared useful ideas to begin a collaboration
in the future.
One word more for Prof.Pensabene, an excellent scholar and the best person
about the Southwestern side of the Palatine hill, the very place where the
temple stands. He was pleased to see someone like us, Nova Roma, so eager
to offer help for a topic so dear to him. As Franciscus Apulus Caesar said
here lately, now we have the possibility to enter into the world of the
first University of Rome "La Sapienza" and with Soprintendenza Archeologica
di Roma, the most important public manager in term of number of Roman monuments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16968 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete Quirites; et salve, D. Moravia.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Actually it is kind of nice that all 3 consular candidates are the
> same wavelength with so many things. There's not much to argue
> about :-)) That said, I can put to gether a nice English brochure
> by the end of the month.

I guess that we all want to recruit new citizens, so it is not a too
controversial issue :-).

> Something else that we need to do is get these brochures translated
> in local languages. Our website is already translated into various
> languages. All we need is someone who speaks those languages to
> copy paste things into a document in a manner that makes sense.
>
> Language is an important part of the cultural identity of every
> country. So we need to get brochures in as many languages as
> possible and websites in as many languages as possible. We have the
> manpower and the international community of citizens, now it is
> time to crack the whip (so to speak:-) and start putting some of
> these fine multi-lingual citizens to work :-)

The way I have been thinking about all that recruitment graphic
material (brochures, flyers and posters) is that it should be easily
adapted to local necessities. Language is of course an important
factor, but it is not the only one. Local groups may have local
addresses, phone numbers, even URLs, and they will certainly want to
include those in the recruitment material before distribution.

This generally means that the material should be available in an
electronic format that is easy to use and widespread. In that way,
our citizens will be able to adapt our material to local needs. I was
thinking about preparing our material in .doc and .pdf format (that
should cover most needs).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16969 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Si !

~ S E M T
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 6:01 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Truly International Nova Roma

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve,<BR>
<BR>
US and EU... OK, but don´t forget a growing third pole... Latin <BR>
America, uh? And I hope soon we will have the forth and fifth pole... <BR>
virtual urbe is going to all the orbe...<BR>
<BR>
As many countries we can entablish a serious and legal presence of <BR>
NR, better for the solidness and safety of our institution. Local <BR>
legally recognized provincial governments are the very starting of <BR>
this project.<BR>
<BR>
A rewarding job indeed for consules, praetores, proconsules and <BR>
propraetores...<BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
L. Arminius Faustus<BR>
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The way I see it, we have two options: either we register Nova Roma <BR>
> as an international organisation (if that is possible), or we <BR>
> register Nova Roma *both* in the US and in the EU. At least, the <BR>
> second plan is surely feasible.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think that we have several legal experts among our citizens. What <BR>
> do you think, gentlemen? Is this a possibility, or are we just <BR>
> talking nonsense?<BR>
> <BR>
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16970 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete

I do not know what has prompted this sudden concern about lawsuits from irate parents, but it has become excessive!
One of our biggest problems is actually being able to get more that two or three people together at the same place at the same time; the concern that anything on the Web alone from NR might result in a suit given all the porn & such available is miniscule!
We are the tiniest of possible Internet targets, and I don't know of anyone who is targeting us, so why all the fuss?

Valete
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia <livia_cornelia_hibernia@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 11:43 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

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<tt>
Salvete Quirites!<BR>
<BR>
Recently Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote the following regarding the <BR>
propose LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM:<BR>
<BR>
> The Grant of citizenship to minors poses a threat to Nova Roma. It<BR>
> opens the possibility of Civil action against Nova Roma Inc.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It is unfortuante that here in the litigious atmosphere in the USA <BR>
there is the risk of being sued even if you never poke your nose <BR>
outside your own front door.  I do not believe that this LEX would <BR>
open Nova Roma to any more liability exposure than it already has <BR>
simply by being on the web.  After all, do we ever ask for *proof* <BR>
that an applicant for Citizenship is in fact of legal age?  If a <BR>
minor misrepresented his/her age in an application, some clever <BR>
attorney could argue that by not verifying their age Nova Roma could <BR>
be held liable in a suit by the parent/guardian because we failed to <BR>
exercise our required due diligence.  That is POSSIBLE, but not <BR>
LIKELY. In general people/organizations with money get sued. It would <BR>
cost far more to sue Nova Roma, inc. than one would every hope to get <BR>
from even an out of court settlement.<BR>
<BR>
> Non Custodial parents have filed civil actions on behalf of thier<BR>
> children in the United States and the Courts have accepted these<BR>
> cases. The case where the 9th court of appeals ruled that<BR>
> the "under God" portion of the Pledge of allegance unconstutional<BR>
> was filed by a non custodial parent. <BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I think the situation here is quite different. Neither the minor in <BR>
question nor the parents had a choice about attending school, nor <BR>
about attending a public school, nor about saying the pledge of <BR>
allegance. That was the issue here: force. Only a government has the <BR>
monopoly on the legal use of force. Ergo, the government, in the form <BR>
of the school board, was sued.  Notice also that the remedy arrived <BR>
at by the court was not financial; it struck down the school <BR>
regulation requiring the pledge of allegance.<BR>
<BR>
Here we have a much different situation. The minor in question would <BR>
be doing something which he/she wanted to do, some thing that the <BR>
custodial parent(s) or guardian would have to OK and something which <BR>
they could quit at will.<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Sicinius Drusus is thinking with the best interests of Nova <BR>
Roma in mind and for that I salute him, however, I believe that his <BR>
concerns redarding this LEX, well intentioned though they are, are <BR>
not that great a risk. In the recent past, I too had misgivings about <BR>
the possibile liability exposure of a proposed LEX; such caution is <BR>
prudent. However, I do not believe that this LEX opens Nova Roma up <BR>
to any more liability exposure than we already have by the simple <BR>
fact of our existance in the modern world.<BR>
<BR>
This LEX has my support.<BR>
<BR>
Valete,<BR>
Livia Cornelia Hibernia<BR>
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16971 From: Doris Butler Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
If a new citizen may be permitted to speak to this issue: Let us in all ways let common sense prevail. As to the guidance of young persons (or of anyone for that matter) in our ways, particularly in matters of faith, there is infinite difference between saying 'This is my peoples' way, this is what my people do...' as compared to 'You can or should do this, that or the other'. One is safely informative and documentary, the latter could be seen as leading another into real or imagined harm, contributing to deliquency, etc.

If I am the picture of health and contribute my own good health to, say, eating peanuts and someone who is deathly allergic to peanuts dies as a result of emulating my example, I in no way encouraged him or her to pursue that course for him/ herself, merely informed that person about my own practice. If I were to have said, 'Eating peanuts will keep you healthy', that is an entirely different matter.

Thank you for letting me interject a note of sensible caution. Personally I would not include a (by macronational law) minor in anything which could be construed as a religious service. I teach yoga here in the bible belt and there are people who actually believe that (presumably Hindu) demons are involved. Please do not underestimate the ignorant and litigious nature of a certain prevailing macroculture.

Blessings to All.

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:
That should be changed as it is historically inaccurate: Males were considered Adult at age 14, females at age 12. An age of 13 would be a reasonable compromise, but allowing them no vote is unreasonable.

- S E M T

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 11:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

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<tt>
<BR>
> I am, however, unclear as to whether those who are not sui iuris<BR>
> would be allowed to vote. I think that, as in both the macronational<BR>
> world today and in Ancient Rome, there should be a minimum voting age.<BR>
<BR>
They are not; the program that assigns the voter codes will skip<BR>
over anyone under 18.<BR>
<BR>
Vale, O.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.<BR>
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com/">http://www.graveyards.com/</a><BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16972 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Banning Minors would be a gross offense to all Nova Roma Citizens with children!
Anyone running for Consul on such a platform should be stiffly opposed.
What have any Nova Roma Minorae done to deserve such an attitude? Is youthful exuberance a crime now?
It has always been my view as an Historian that the real Romans treated young people with respect and decency - so why are some New Romans unable to do the same?

~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
-----Original Message-----
From: "Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <princeps_senator@...>
Sent: Nov 20, 2003 10:20 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

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<tt>
Spurius Postumius Tubertus Lucio Sicinio Druso SPD<BR>
<BR>
Si tu vales, vales.<BR>
<BR>
So you feel that minors should not be made citizens. I can respect your right to your own opinion. But I should like to answer a statement of yours:<BR>
<BR>
"We don't need to make it easier for minors to become citizens, we need an outright ban on accepting minors."<BR>
<BR>
Very well then. Obtain the vote of the People, be elected Consul, promulgate a law, and expel all minor citizens of Nova Roma.<BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Spurius Postumius Tubertus<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16973 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Salve Romans

As with the talented Livia Cornelia Hibernia I highly recommend to the people the election of
Marcus Iulius Perusianus as Quaestor for the year 2757 AVC. He was and indispensable , talented and committed member of the Eagle staff I support his election will great enthusiasm and with thanks for a job well done!


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum 2756


----- Original Message -----
From: m_iulius@...
To: Nova Roma
Cc: Nova Roma Europe ; Curia ; Cohors FAC
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Candidate for Quaestor


M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS S P D

Cives it's a honor for me to announce my candidacy as Quaestor for the year
2757 AVC.

I am 35 years old, Roman, Italian and a Novaroman patrician since 11
January 2002.
Outside Nova Roma I am a project manager in a software house, owned by a
national bank. I have a University diploma in Statistics and I've been a
soldier for three years (Lieutenant in the Italian army).

This is a brief curriculum vitae in Nova Roma:

2755 - Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae

2756 - Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Historicus Primus of Cohors Aedilis Curulis
- Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Curatoris Differum for The Eagle

In this personal page I've put all the information to know better who I
am in Nova Roma and what I have done in the past two years:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius


Why do I think I can be the right person as a Quaestor?

A Novaroman sees in the Cursus Honorum the better way to express his
dedication to Rome and Her ideals. And, after two years, I feel it's the
time to climb the first step!
Some of you could witness that, whenever I offered my help, I was able to
organize games during the ludi, write articles on regular basis, study and
publish detailed reports on many different topics, either inside or outside
my province.

But let me explain another perspective:
as Scriba ad Historiam first, and then as Scriba Historicus Primus , I have
followed the Magna Mater project from the very beginning, working for our
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (as Curule Aedile for 2755) and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar (current year).

Thanks to the possibility to visit the Temple and, why not, thanks to my
competence, I have fullfilled many duties the project needed.

To whom is not concerned about this, during these last two years I have
produced detailed reports on the Temple of Cybele and its bureaucratic
situation, going on the Palatine hill several times (last time it was just
15 days ago) and meeting important people.
Next year we need to develop a close collaboration with them! It is the
chance Nova Roma has to hurl its name in the scholar world and make
something with a living project on a real Roman monument! Again, this means
Nova Roma to be known in the academic environment.

As a Quaestor I promise to follow the Magna Mater project at best, myself
a person with a two years experience on this topic, and offer my job to
a magistrate who sees the goal we are aiming.
Things will be even better, as I am moving back to my beloved city, Rome,
and could have personal contact with these sholars and managers on a regular
basis. (see the Post Scriptum below for more information****).

This is why I think I should be a Quaestor for year 2757, and invite you
all to vote for me.

Of course any of you could send here or privately questions and to have
information. It will be my pleasure to answer them all.

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

PS
****This last period was much more fruitful: I met D.ssa Irene Iacopi,
chief of the Roman Forum and Palatine archeological areas; one month later
I met Prof. Patrizio Pensabene of the University of Rome. With both of them
have concluded generic agreements and shared useful ideas to begin a collaboration
in the future.
One word more for Prof.Pensabene, an excellent scholar and the best person
about the Southwestern side of the Palatine hill, the very place where the
temple stands. He was pleased to see someone like us, Nova Roma, so eager
to offer help for a topic so dear to him. As Franciscus Apulus Caesar said
here lately, now we have the possibility to enter into the world of the
first University of Rome "La Sapienza" and with Soprintendenza Archeologica
di Roma, the most important public manager in term of number of Roman monuments




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16974 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur; salvete, Quirites.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 08:01:09PM -0000, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik <ben@c...> wrote:
>
> > My apologies for not making myself clearer (for some reason, I've
> > not done well at being denotational over the past day or two.) My
> > response was as much to the original poster, Servius Equitius
> > Mercurius Troianus, as it was to you; I was trying to reply to the
> > main thrust of his argument as well as responding to the point you
> > were making in your response to him. Perhaps I should have replied
> > to the two posts separately.
>
> Perhaps it was my fault for not reading your post more carefully.
>
> > To lay it out a bit more, I'm saying that the original poster was
> > conflating the current status of minors in NR with the additions
> > proposed in this Lex, as well as not taking cognizance of the
> > relevant key fact with regard to the so-called "legal problems"
> > (lack of authentication.) I agree with your statement that the Gens
> > system needs to be changed, and realize that it will change in
> > time; I am also making an additional point: we will need relevant
> > laws when that does occur.
> > These laws will be *of necessity* different from the laws we need
> > today, which must reflect the situation in Nova Roma as she is
> > currently.
>
> I can not help but agree with you, since what you are saying makes
> sense.
>
> The problem of the lack of authentication is one that has been in my
> mind for some time as well. In the past, I have brought it to the
> attention of this forum. After much discussion and thought, I have
> come to the conclusion that there is no simple solution to that
> problem. The evident solution (scanning IDs and sending them through
> the net) is apparently illegal.
>
> If any of you, citizens, has a new idea about that subject, please
> share with all of us.

Hmmm. Well, I'm willing to toss a possibility up in the air and see how
it strikes people here. Note, right off the bat, that I'm not putting
this as a proposition for a Lex or anything like that: I'm simply
interested to see if a significant number of people here find the idea
acceptable or even interesting. Given the recent discussion of verifying
age and the cowardly puppet attack on Marinus, I definitely see quite a
bit of appeal in the idea. As well, if there _is_ interest in doing
this, I would be happy to post step-by-step instructions (I'd probably
make up a Web page, actually) for anyone who wishes to do this.

One of the things I teach for a living is computer security. In a
situation such as this, there really _is_ no way to establish the
original /bona fides/ unless we have something like key-signing parties
[1] and use, e.g., PGP/GPG signed mail when posting - as Titus Octavius
Pius does, and as I will do with this post when I send it (see
<http://okopnik.freeshell.org/misc.html> for my public keys.)

Although this is technically feasible (and in fact very easy), it would
not be trivial to implement. In effect, it would require almost every
Nova Roman to meet at least two (and preferably as many more as
possible) other Nova Romans and have enough interaction to verify each
other's identity so that these other people would be willing to say
"yes, there is such a person as, e.g., Gnaeus Salix Astur".

Building this so-called "web of trust" would have a number of positive
effects, including additional motivation for gatherings. It would also
strongly mitigate against puppets in serious discussion (where everyone
involved would presumably sign their mail), and would, for example,
provide a guarantee that the instructions sent to our Curator Araneum do
indeed come from, e.g., the Consul who ostensibly sent them. Note that
no computer is required at the party - bringing one for the purpose is,
in fact, discouraged in the HOWTO recommended below. All that would be
required from any participant would be their physical presence, two
forms of positive (picture) ID, and the key data they've generated for
themselves.

The negative effects, just to toss in some data for balance, would be
the requirement of learning how to use the encryption/signing software
(5-15 minutes, in my estimation), and the possible alienation of the
people who are unwilling or unable to meet other Nova Romans.


[1] See item #1, "Overview Of The Party", in the "GnuPG Keysigning Party
HOWTO" <http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html>


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16975 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Truly International Nova Roma
Are you sure the Hague hasn't set up some sort of central Registry yet? I really though the EU was further along than that!

~ S E M T
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis <pjtuloup@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 6:57 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A Truly International Nova Roma

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete !<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur" <BR>
<salixastur@y...> wrote:<BR>
> Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.<BR>
> <BR>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <BR>
> <sceptia@y...> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> The way I see it, we have two options: either we register Nova Roma <BR>
> as an international organisation (if that is possible), or we <BR>
> register Nova Roma *both* in the US and in the EU. At least, the <BR>
> second plan is surely feasible.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I think it is useful to specify there is no "European citizenship", <BR>
neither for the individuals neither for the companies nor for <BR>
associations.  So the label "Nova-Roma" should be registered, and  <BR>
associations made up, in EACH European  country:  no doubt that a <BR>
such project would cost a big lot of money.<BR>
<BR>
Valete !<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16976 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: THE LAST URGE OF OUR TRIBUNES!
Salve Franciscus,

<I don't know why this law give to the Curule Aedile 8 points more
<than the Plebeian but I think the law is costitutionally correct,
<only the citizens can refuse it.

Well said Tribune candidate!! :-) I agree with you. We may not like the lesser points, but there is
no constitutional reason to veto-- and that is what a Tribune is bound by at all times.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16977 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: High Tech Solutions To a Low Tech Problem
Salvete,

I'm seeing a lot of sugestions involving using
technology to solve problems with having minor
members.

There is a low tech solution that is better than any
of them, do away with the E-Form and and have a print
this form button.

Require a signiture, a plain old fahsioned pen and ink
signiture that is legal in allmost all jurisdictions
attesting that the person signing the form is 18 or
older.

If they are not the require that a section dealing
with parental notification be signed and noterized.

The form is then mailed by plain old fashioned snail
mail to one of the Censors.

That will clear up some (not all) of the legal
problems involved in having Minors as citizens.

L. Sicinius Drusus


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16978 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salve,

Once again I agree. I was reading posts when I stumbled apon one that
mentioned about Roman adults. That the legal age for males was 14 and 12 for
females. Like the one who wrote about it said that we should make it 13 to become
a Nova Roman adult. If we want to be accurate Romans then we should live and
do as they did.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16979 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
There are two problems here.

1. The Roman Legal age was 16 or 17.

2. The age Nova Roma sets as a "Legal Age" is a matter of exactly ZERO
importance when we are dealing with real laws of real nations.

Nova Roma is NOT recognized as a nation by any real nations. Our
"laws" have no more legal standing than the organizational rules of
the American Kennal club.

Legaly we are just another non profit organization. The term
"micronation" has no legal standing. Our declarations that we are a
soverign nation have no legal standing.

As far as any national legal authorities are concerned we are just
another organization that has to obey the local laws, and no "law"
that Nova Roma passes will ever change that fact.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Once again I agree. I was reading posts when I stumbled apon one
that
> mentioned about Roman adults. That the legal age for males was 14
and 12 for
> females. Like the one who wrote about it said that we should make it
13 to become
> a Nova Roman adult. If we want to be accurate Romans then we should
live and
> do as they did.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16980 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete omnes,

The only problem is that we should ask some of our Quaestors and
other political officers to resign because they're technically
underaged by Roman standards. I checked the ancient Lex Villa Annalis>

It sets these minimum age standards for curule magistrates:

Curule aediles - 36 years
Praetor - 39 years
Consul - 42 years (Just barely made her Diana, Gnaeus Salix would be
in trouble!/
Quaestorship (minimum age 25) is a customary prerequisite.Look out
my friend Serapio!>

Well enough said. We don't want to end up shooting ourselves in the
foot by being to ridgid to old republican customs.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




> Once again I agree. I was reading posts when I stumbled apon
one that
> mentioned about Roman adults. That the legal age for males was 14
and 12 for
> females. Like the one who wrote about it said that we should make
it 13 to become
> a Nova Roman adult. If we want to be accurate Romans then we should
live and
> do as they did.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16981 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> writes:

[quoting Titus Octavius Pius]
> > 3. Aediles Curulis are charged with maintaining the venues where the
> > Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is
> > the responsibility of the Curule Aediles to report any changes of the
> > Ordo Equaestor to the Censors.
>
> This point is moot considering that there is no property of Nova Roma
> engaged in commerce.

No Diana, the point is not moot. I have over 100 e-mails saved in a
confidential folder covering cases I've investigated for citizens this
year involving transactions they had difficulty with involving some
merchant registered as a member of the Ordo Equester. In only one of
those cases was I unable to resolve the situation to the satisfaction
of all concerned.

I don't talk about these things out here on the main list as a general rule,
because they involve sensitive information which could, potentially, end up
in a praetorian court. But it is certainly a big part of the Curule Aedile's
job. Putting on the games is just the tip of the iceberg.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16982 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
We already HAVE Minors who do indeed Contribute! Just because a person is well spoken or does not advertise their age, do not presume otherwise! Some Minors ARE here and they DO Contribute! As I am a friend to some, I take strong offense at what you have said!

~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 9:59 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete!<BR>
<BR>
I don't really see what a minor can contribute to begin with.  Let's <BR>
look at the average American teenager (my apologies to the <BR>
international citizens, I can't speak about your teenagers).  With an <BR>
attention span of maybe 5 minutes, I can't see that many minors are <BR>
going to be great contributors to NR.  What I can see is an influx of <BR>
100 15-year-olds who think NR is the greatest thing since sliced <BR>
bread for about a week.  Then they discover the Norse <BR>
reconstructionists and decide *they* are the greatest thing since <BR>
sliced bread.  Since the Norse now have their attention, NR is left <BR>
with 100 more socii - because we all know that the likelihood that <BR>
they will actually remeber to withdraw their citizenship is slim to <BR>
none.  Just what we need.  <BR>
<BR>
I'm against the lex as I do not really see the point in having minors <BR>
as members.  I can't speak about the legal ramifications but since it <BR>
seems to be a gray area, that's all the more reason not to invite <BR>
minors to NR.  Just my two cents though.<BR>
<BR>
Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16983 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
I'd like to speak up in defense of minor citizens as well. What has
been used here as a description of the "typical teenager" is indeed
accurate where SOME are concerned, but certainly not all. I think we
should give each individual a chance to prove themselves.

(I mean, just because *I* was a pot-smoking rebel teenager doesn't
mean they all are...)

Arnamentia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> We already HAVE Minors who do indeed Contribute! Just because a
person is well spoken or does not advertise their age, do not
presume otherwise! Some Minors ARE here and they DO Contribute! As
I am a friend to some, I take strong offense at what you have said!
>
> ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@y...>
> Sent: Nov 21, 2003 9:59 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salvete!<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't really see what a minor can contribute to begin with. 
Let's <BR>
> look at the average American teenager (my apologies to the <BR>
> international citizens, I can't speak about your teenagers).  With
an <BR>
> attention span of maybe 5 minutes, I can't see that many minors
are <BR>
> going to be great contributors to NR.  What I can see is an influx
of <BR>
> 100 15-year-olds who think NR is the greatest thing since sliced
<BR>
> bread for about a week.  Then they discover the Norse <BR>
> reconstructionists and decide *they* are the greatest thing since
<BR>
> sliced bread.  Since the Norse now have their attention, NR is
left <BR>
> with 100 more socii - because we all know that the likelihood that
<BR>
> they will actually remeber to withdraw their citizenship is slim
to <BR>
> none.  Just what we need.  <BR>
> <BR>
> I'm against the lex as I do not really see the point in having
minors <BR>
> as members.  I can't speak about the legal ramifications but since
it <BR>
> seems to be a gray area, that's all the more reason not to invite
<BR>
> minors to NR.  Just my two cents though.<BR>
> <BR>
> Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16984 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: A Question for the candidates for Consul 2756
Salvete:

At the Pagan Pride Day in Dayton, OH I facilitated a workshop on the
Priesthood's of Ancient Rome. It was well attended for a PPD, and I had about 10
people at the workshop: most of them Wiccan. The audience was very receptive,
and I feel had a very positive affect on those who attended.

Valete;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/24/2003 5:49:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richmal@... writes:
We tried something similiar here in Nova Brittania to give a
workshop/lecture during Pagan Pride Days here in Eastern MA.
Unfortunately due to our being late in finding out about the event,
the workshop spaces had already filled up. But there is next year.
I'm sure there are plenty of Pagan Pride type events that are
reasonably close to others in NR that practice the Religio.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16985 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
If taxes are a major concern of yours, Agrippina, then let me state this for the Record:
I SERVIUS EQUITIUS MERCURIUS TROIANUS DO HEREBY SWEAR TO PAY TAXES IN FULL NOT ONLY FOR MYSELF BUT ALSO ADDITIONALLY PAY THE TAX IN FULL FOR ONE MINOR.
Will anyone else join me in this pledge, to lay this 'objection' to rest?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
As for the "exceptions" I assure you, we already have some exceptional young people, and hopefully some day we will have many more! For that to happen, though, some attitudes will have to change, especially YOURS ! They won't come if they don't feel welcome, and if by chance they do then they won't stick around with people like you calling them worthless!
Fortunately, your flippant snide downright vicious comment has brought some of those who approve of Young People to express their views publicly - now we know who our Young People can count on.
You however, who claims once to have been an exceptional teen yourself, owe our current exceptional Teens an Apology!

Vale,
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 11:09 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve, Titus Octavius Pius!<BR>
<BR>
I was being honest, sometimes honesty is brutal.  You are right <BR>
though, their are always exceptions.  When I was a teenager I was one <BR>
of those exceptions, so was my boyfriend.  Exceptions always get the <BR>
short end of the stick.  That's part of being a teenager, especially <BR>
when you are in the minority.  Its the majority that will always be <BR>
the problem.  Yes, we may pick up a small handful of the exceptions. <BR>
However that small handful will have to be weeded out from many, many <BR>
more of the 'typical teenagers.'  <BR>
<BR>
One of my problems with allowing teenagers is what can they really <BR>
contribute?  I know that many of the offices have age requirements <BR>
which limit a teenagers ability to contribute in that respect.  As <BR>
someone else pointed out, what about taxes?  I've read several posts <BR>
concerning NR's budget concerns so I don't see that additional, <BR>
potentially non-tax paying citizens, would be a benefit.  Yes, we <BR>
have many adult citizens who don't pay tax.  However, if minors <BR>
aren't required to pay taxes that could be a additional drain.  <BR>
<BR>
To me, allowing minors is a can of worms that we really don't need to <BR>
deal with.  I think we need to find ways to get more adults to <BR>
participate before we worry about minors.  Just my opinion though. <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Salve, Agrippina Modia Aurelia.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think you're being a wee bit overly brutal in regards to <BR>
teenagers.<BR>
> True, there are a lot who behave more or less like you say, but <BR>
there<BR>
> are plenty of intelligent and dedicated PERSONS among those who <BR>
have yet<BR>
> to reach their physical age of maturity. I don't feel that judging <BR>
them<BR>
> all because of the acts of some is a good idea, and if the price for<BR>
> that is an increase in the number of socii, so be it. It's not like <BR>
some<BR>
> extra socii will cause us any real harm, and if we gain a few <BR>
productive<BR>
> citizens in the deal, then I'm all for it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
> <BR>
> - --<BR>
> <BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16986 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Question for consular candidate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
wrote:
> [posted with copy to SEMT]
>
> Salvete quiretes,
>
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus addressed Quintus
> Cassius Calvus:
> > Couched in the way you have phrased it, [...]
>
> Woah hoss! Back off there. I know you're trying to help
> but Calvus is a good guy. He was absolutely indispensible
> to me last summer when I held a simulated election that
> required the rogators to jump through about a dozen new
> hoops. I take his question as an honest inquiry, unlike
> the one that came from the forged identity.
>
> If Calvus thinks I ought not to be elected, he'll say so.
> Thus far he hasn't, and I think I've satisfied his question.
>
> -- Marinus

Salve,

Thank you, Marinus. I felt I was asking an honest question and in
retrun receiving an honest answer. I thanked you for your answer and
as far as I'm concerned that was that. If Octavius succeeds in
tracking down the actual identity of the hit and run character
assassin, I do think a Nota is probably a well deserved punishment and
deterent from it happening again. I may ask tough questions and I
probably offend some people with my strong opinions, but at least I
have enough (insert whatever body part(s) you want here) to sign my posts.

I don't think I was that indispensible. Just doing what was required
as the voters elected me to do. Plus I did have the motive of lets
get this over and done with so I can go enjoy some summertime fun. <G>

I said before that as Rogator I don't feel it is appropriate for me to
endorse or "unendorse" any candidate for office. As a citizen I have
the right to ask questions of the candidates and debate the
merits/demerits of laws that would effect all citizens, but beyond
that is really heading into the conflict of interest territory to
start endorsing or "unendorsing" of candidates.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16987 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur; salvete, Quirites.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 08:01:09PM -0000, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik <ben@c...> wrote:
>
> > My apologies for not making myself clearer (for some reason, I've
> > not done well at being denotational over the past day or two.) My
> > response was as much to the original poster, Servius Equitius
> > Mercurius Troianus, as it was to you; I was trying to reply to the
> > main thrust of his argument as well as responding to the point you
> > were making in your response to him. Perhaps I should have replied
> > to the two posts separately.
>
> Perhaps it was my fault for not reading your post more carefully.
>
> > To lay it out a bit more, I'm saying that the original poster was
> > conflating the current status of minors in NR with the additions
> > proposed in this Lex, as well as not taking cognizance of the
> > relevant key fact with regard to the so-called "legal problems"
> > (lack of authentication.) I agree with your statement that the Gens
> > system needs to be changed, and realize that it will change in
> > time; I am also making an additional point: we will need relevant
> > laws when that does occur.
> > These laws will be *of necessity* different from the laws we need
> > today, which must reflect the situation in Nova Roma as she is
> > currently.
>
> I can not help but agree with you, since what you are saying makes
> sense.
>
> The problem of the lack of authentication is one that has been in my
> mind for some time as well. In the past, I have brought it to the
> attention of this forum. After much discussion and thought, I have
> come to the conclusion that there is no simple solution to that
> problem. The evident solution (scanning IDs and sending them through
> the net) is apparently illegal.
>
> If any of you, citizens, has a new idea about that subject, please
> share with all of us.

Hmmm. Well, I'm willing to toss a possibility up in the air and see how
it strikes people here. Note, right off the bat, that I'm not putting
this as a proposition for a Lex or anything like that: I'm simply
interested to see if a significant number of people here find the idea
acceptable or even interesting. Given the recent discussion of verifying
age and the cowardly puppet attack on Marinus, I definitely see quite a
bit of appeal in the idea. As well, if there _is_ interest in doing
this, I would be happy to post step-by-step instructions (I'd probably
make up a Web page, actually) for anyone who wishes to do this.

One of the things I teach for a living is computer security. In a
situation such as this, there really _is_ no way to establish the
original /bona fides/ unless we have something like key-signing parties
[1] and use, e.g., PGP/GPG signed mail when posting - as Titus Octavius
Pius does, and as I will do with this post when I send it (see
<http://okopnik.freeshell.org/misc.html> for my public keys.)

Although this is technically feasible (and in fact very easy), it would
not be trivial to implement. In effect, it would require almost every
Nova Roman to meet at least two (and preferably as many more as
possible) other Nova Romans and have enough interaction to verify each
other's identity so that these other people would be willing to say
"yes, there is such a person as, e.g., Gnaeus Salix Astur".

Building this so-called "web of trust" would have a number of positive
effects, including additional motivation for gatherings. It would also
strongly mitigate against puppets in serious discussion (where everyone
involved would presumably sign their mail), and would, for example,
provide a guarantee that the instructions sent to our Curator Araneum do
indeed come from, e.g., the Consul who ostensibly sent them. Note that
no computer is required at the party - bringing one for the purpose is,
in fact, discouraged in the HOWTO recommended below. All that would be
required from any participant would be their physical presence, two
forms of positive (picture) ID, and the key data they've generated for
themselves.

The negative effects, just to toss in some data for balance, would be
the requirement of learning how to use the encryption/signing software
(5-15 minutes, in my estimation), and the possible alienation of the
people who are unwilling or unable to meet other Nova Romans.


[1] See item #1, "Overview Of The Party", in the "GnuPG Keysigning Party
HOWTO" <http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html>


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16988 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
LOL,

The "Typical Teenager" is going to have about as much intrest in
joining a bunch of boring old Nova Romans as in listening to Polka
Music. The only remotely "cool" thing about Nova Roma is Paganism, and
the Religio Romana dosen't have Witches or Magick so it isn't nearly
as "cool" as some other forms of Paganism.

Any Teens who want to join Nova Roma are going to be exceptional, not
your typical teenager. The kids aren't the problem. The Adults who
wrote laws like COPA to "protect" them are the problem.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia"
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:
>
> I'd like to speak up in defense of minor citizens as well. What has
> been used here as a description of the "typical teenager" is indeed
> accurate where SOME are concerned, but certainly not all. I think we
> should give each individual a chance to prove themselves.
>
> (I mean, just because *I* was a pot-smoking rebel teenager doesn't
> mean they all are...)
>
> Arnamentia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > We already HAVE Minors who do indeed Contribute! Just because a
> person is well spoken or does not advertise their age, do not
> presume otherwise! Some Minors ARE here and they DO Contribute! As
> I am a friend to some, I take strong offense at what you have said!
> >
> > ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@y...>
> > Sent: Nov 21, 2003 9:59 AM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
> >
> > <html><body>
> >
> >
> > <tt>
> > Salvete!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I don't really see what a minor can contribute to begin with.
> Let's <BR>
> > look at the average American teenager (my apologies to the <BR>
> > international citizens, I can't speak about your teenagers). With
> an <BR>
> > attention span of maybe 5 minutes, I can't see that many minors
> are <BR>
> > going to be great contributors to NR. What I can see is an influx
> of <BR>
> > 100 15-year-olds who think NR is the greatest thing since sliced
> <BR>
> > bread for about a week. Then they discover the Norse <BR>
> > reconstructionists and decide *they* are the greatest thing since
> <BR>
> > sliced bread. Since the Norse now have their attention, NR is
> left <BR>
> > with 100 more socii - because we all know that the likelihood that
> <BR>
> > they will actually remeber to withdraw their citizenship is slim
> to <BR>
> > none. Just what we need. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I'm against the lex as I do not really see the point in having
> minors <BR>
> > as members. I can't speak about the legal ramifications but since
> it <BR>
> > seems to be a gray area, that's all the more reason not to invite
> <BR>
> > minors to NR. Just my two cents though.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> >
> > <br>
> >
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16989 From: lanius117@aol.com Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Roman Scotland / Disappearence of the 9th Hispanic Legion
Salve, Quinte

A coincidence - I just finished reading a novel about an ex-centurion who
goes into the north country to retrieve the lost Eagle of the Ninth! The name of
the book is
Eagle of the Ninth by Rosemary Sutcliff.

I enjoyed it very much.

Vale,

Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16990 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: Roman Scotland / Disappearence of the 9th Hispanic Legion
lanius117@... wrote:
[...]
> Eagle of the Ninth by Rosemary Sutcliff.
>
> I enjoyed it very much.

Rosemary Sutcliff was one of the great adventure novelists of the
20th century. I love her work, though I haven't (yet) read this
novel. I shall have to find it. Thank you for mentioning it Falco.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16991 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Agrippina:

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. It does depend on the company one gets to keep, and the "exceptional" teens I have been referring to are indeed rare simply by being exceptional. But they do exist, they are here, and your holding your past against them is unjust: It is bigotry, an inverse ageism, and it is WRONG! You still owe our Minorae an Apology!!
You have maligned some good people, who are OUR People, based on some bad past experience of yours instead of the real current and actual behaviour of our Young People!

~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 11:48 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola,<BR>
<BR>
> Their energy. Their intelligence. Their time. Their abilities. In <BR>
short,<BR>
> all the things that any of us have to contribute - and perhaps a bit<BR>
> more, since at that age, they're still searching for direction. I <BR>
would<BR>
> say that membership in Nova Roma could be considered a step in the <BR>
right<BR>
> direction; a teen who is interested in Romanitas and (at least by<BR>
> inference) in possessing the virtues that it implies, is certainly<BR>
> someone I'd be interested in having here. Most of all, they would <BR>
bring<BR>
> new blood in here - something without which any organization dies<BR>
> eventually.<BR>
<BR>
For the few exceptions that might join, I wholeheartedly agree.  Its <BR>
the rest I worry about.<BR>
<BR>
> First, please don't discount all teens, or even American teens, <BR>
based on<BR>
> a highly-distorted, two-dimensional picture that fits no one I know;<BR>
> everyone is an individual and deserves to be considered as such. <BR>
<BR>
Its not a highly-distorted, two-dimensional picture.  I, personally, <BR>
am not *that* far removed from being a teenager.  As a former owner <BR>
of a pagan shop, I am very well acquainted with teenagers.  At 27 I <BR>
enrolled at Ohio State University and discovered that most of my <BR>
fellow college students were *morons* and was dumbfounded that any <BR>
high school would let these people out with a diploma. If they were <BR>
that bad in college, what could they have been like in HS? Yes, I did <BR>
meet some exceptional students, but I met 100's more who were a far <BR>
cry from that.  Essentially, I do not think I am speaking out of <BR>
turn, I am speaking from my personal experience. Just to further <BR>
clarify, my personal experience stems from living in almost every <BR>
major city in Ohio.  So consider my limited point of view as being <BR>
teenagers from Ohio mostly, for what little that might be worth. <BR>
<BR>
As for the topic of individuality, I will not debate with you on <BR>
that.  I have my opinions on the subject but this is not the forum <BR>
for such a debate.  <BR>
<BR>
> Second,<BR>
> your description suffers from an interesting logical fault: if these<BR>
> 15-year-olds are so unpredictable and unstable... how is it that <BR>
they<BR>
> will *all* take these exact actions at the same time? <BR>
<BR>
I didn't mean anyone to take my example literally!  It was an <BR>
*example,*  a *hypothetical.*  I was merely trying to point out a <BR>
flaw that I saw.  Do I think exactly 100 people, all exactly 15 yrs <BR>
old will join tomorrow?  No.  Do I think that, if they did, all 100 <BR>
would leave at the same time, for the same place?  No.  Please, if <BR>
you going to find fault in an agruement (which I will be the first to <BR>
say I'm sure I make many), find a real one.  <BR>
<BR>
> Last, I would have<BR>
> no problem whatsoever with the above scenario - because having even <BR>
a<BR>
> thousand socii harms NR not at all... and because I believe that <BR>
Nova<BR>
> Roma is interesting enough, and has enough merit, that at least <BR>
several<BR>
> of that notional hundred would stay around. Sounds like an efficient<BR>
> commitment filter, to me. <BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying that socii harm NR at all.  I was merely trying to say <BR>
that we need active citizens, not more people who sit on the civi <BR>
list for a year doing nothing.<BR>
<BR>
> I hereby invite teenagers to gallop through here in their thousands,<BR>
> scattering hair clips, Britney Spears CDs, and chewing gum in their<BR>
> wake, and tossing their dirty clothes into a corner no matter how <BR>
many<BR>
> times you tell them not to. :) And gladly extend a welcoming hand to<BR>
> those who decide to stick around (no palm buzzers, please. :)<BR>
<BR>
Then I officially appoint you babysitter :)  <BR>
<BR>
I thank you for the opportunity to debate with you.  <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16992 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-24
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Since you are advocating Banning Teens, you are talking about banning existing Citizens, so I refuse to "agree to disagree".
I noticed that when you were addressed point-by-point you agreed or yielded on every point, yet persisted in the "opinion" of banning Citizens! If you were simply stating that you don't like young people & wish they would leave you alone, fine, that's an opinion and you're welcome to it (no matter how wrongheaded it is).
However, you are proposing taking action against existing Citizens - the Banning of Teen Citizens - and you have not changed it from a proposal for action into a mere opinion! That's the one thing you would not yield on, even though you conceded that our own young people have caused no offense! Change this into an opinion only, and I'll "agree to disagree" (even though you are wrong). Keep maintaining this as a proposal for action against our young Citizens and I will keep opposing you!

~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----

From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 12:08 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM

<html><body>


<tt>
<BR>
> I believe that you see it as your honest opinion, and I'm not <BR>
disputing<BR>
> that. However, I see your opinion of teenagers are incorrect - as <BR>
any<BR>
> generality inevitably is. If you'd care to point out how one of the<BR>
> minors that we have here in Nova Roma has done anything worse or <BR>
more<BR>
> damaging than the nominal adults here, I'd be fascinated to learn <BR>
of it.<BR>
<BR>
Let's just say that we disagree on our opinion of teenagers.  I do <BR>
concede your point on the adults vs the teenagers of NR though.  <BR>
After the last few days on several NR lists, I'm not sure even the <BR>
worst teenagers I have known could do any worse than some of the <BR>
adults here.<BR>
<BR>
> Yes... every single human being. As the standard net.acronym goes,<BR>
> "EPID".<BR>
> <BR>
> <<a href="http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.cgi?string=EPID">http://okopnik.freeshell.org/acronyms.cgi?string=EPID</a>><BR>
<BR>
Again, I'm not going to get into a debate of individuality on an NR <BR>
list.  We have enough off-topic debates on the NR lists as is.<BR>
<BR>
> > When I was a teenager I was one <BR>
> > of those exceptions, so was my boyfriend.  Exceptions always get <BR>
the <BR>
> > short end of the stick.  That's part of being a teenager, <BR>
especially <BR>
> > when you are in the minority.  <BR>
> <BR>
> I hope you're not saying that this makes it OK for Nova Roma to <BR>
continue<BR>
> the practice.<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes I think such practices are necessary.  As much as I hated <BR>
it when I was younger, I learned that in many cases it needs to <BR>
exist.  In this case, the grey area presented by the possible legal <BR>
issues presented in other debates on this lex present a good enough <BR>
reason to seriously think about this lex.  Regardless of the 'happy <BR>
hippy' mentality (no offense), we *may* be presented with a lawsuit, <BR>
be named in one, or just have do deal with angry parents.  None of <BR>
which is particularly appealing.  <BR>
<BR>
> Nova Roma membership, as you've implied yourself, makes a fairly<BR>
> efficient weeding mechanism.<BR>
<BR>
On that account, yes it does.  <BR>
<BR>
> Interesting. A drain on what? Perhaps you could elaborate.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I should have.  I was thinking about the Lacus Magni gathering <BR>
we had in October (a wonderful event BTW).  Our Propraetor provided <BR>
gifts, food, etc, part of which were reimbursed (from what I <BR>
understand) by NR.  *IF* we had several non-taxpaying teenagers there <BR>
(assuming of course that they would not pay taxes), the tax paying <BR>
members would be incurring part of the expense for those citizens.  <BR>
That's what I was thinking of when I mentioned that.  Personally I <BR>
don't necessarily see it as problem, but others might be offended by <BR>
paying taxes which benefit non-tax paying citizens.  <BR>
<BR>
> > To me, allowing minors is a can of worms that we really don't <BR>
need to <BR>
> > deal with.  I think we need to find ways to get more adults to <BR>
> > participate before we worry about minors.  Just my opinion <BR>
though. <BR>
> <BR>
> As a friend of mine says, "visualize the power of 'and'". :) We need<BR>
> more people here, more members. I think we're all agreed that <BR>
members<BR>
> are a Good Thing; you seem to be making the case that minors -<BR>
> teenagers, to use your wording - are somehow less worthy and in <BR>
fact not<BR>
> a Good Thing. I'd be interested to see how you justify that <BR>
contention.<BR>
<BR>
Visualization is all well and good, it doesn't make the legal problem <BR>
disappear.  It will not prevent the more troublesome teenagers from <BR>
trying to stir up problems (or the adults for that matter).  It will <BR>
not prevent the Christian parent of minor who has joined from raising <BR>
holy hell on NR.  In a perfect world, I would wholeheartedly support <BR>
the lex.  Its not a perfect world.  Personally, I see potential <BR>
problems, that's all.  I don't support it.  Sorry I disagree with <BR>
you :)  <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16993 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
Salve bene Gnaeus Scriptor amicus!

I believe you are mistaken: I have read the Lex, and assure you that the Honourable LS Drusus has no desire to ban minors!
He has been very concerned about the risk of Lawsuits, that's all - at no time (and I've been following this closely!!) has he said he wants no minors, just that he feels having minors increases our legal risk. He has belaboured the point actually, but he does NOT want you gone!! I've looked up every proposal in the Lex, so Relax!
Now that dreadful Agrippina woman does seem to have it out for all Minors, but that's just her own personal gripe and has nothing at all to do with the Lex! So again, Relax my friend! As Justinian can assure you, I'd NEVER let it happen! As for that foul Agrippina person, since she's determined to hate Young People anyway so far as I'm concerned you should act in self defense against her and tell what you think of her unjust, outrageous idea! She doesn't have any Laws up for consideration, so all she's doing now is shooting her mouth off - she's no threat to you, so Relax! DO go ahead and let her know what you think of her though - even the Lex Minorum guarantees you continued freedom of speech, so speak out against the bloody minded fool, by all means. I've certainly let her know how I feel, and you're entitled to do the same!

Your Friend and Ally,
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
Citizen and Youth Advocate

-----Original Message-----
From: Scriboni89@...
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 5:59 AM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve,<BR>
<BR>
    I would like to take a poll. Who is for banning minors from Nova Roma. I <BR>
find it ridiculous that you wish to expel me and all others under 18 whom are <BR>
lovers of Roma. I think this is a horrible proposal Senator L. Sicinius <BR>
Drusus. Any way I am very curious who is for or against banning all minors. Please I <BR>
don't want to leave Roma. My whole life is revolved around Roma. There are <BR>
not many minors out there whom admire Roma. Please I am very curious about who <BR>
is for or against. Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
BENE.VALE.<BR>
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.<BR>
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.<BR>
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.<BR>
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16994 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salve Arnamentia,

<I'd like to speak up in defense of minor citizens as well. What has
<been used here as a description of the "typical teenager" is indeed
<accurate where SOME are concerned, but certainly not all. I think we
<should give each individual a chance to prove themselves.

<(I mean, just because *I* was a pot-smoking rebel teenager doesn't
<mean they all are...)

LOL! And just because someone is a pot-smoking rebel teenager doe not mean that they have no brains
and have nothing interesting to say or to contribute! I was also a PSRT but I was also studying both
music and religion very intensely at the time. I could run circles around 90% of the adults. The PS
part and the patched jeans and WHO t-shirts were just part of the 'cutlure' (in NYC at least!) of
the 70's :-) Now the youth run circles around me.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16995 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 22:27, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:

> This generally means that the material should be available in an
> electronic format that is easy to use and widespread. In that way,
> our citizens will be able to adapt our material to local needs. I was
> thinking about preparing our material in .doc and .pdf format (that
> should cover most needs).
>
Salvete,

although very common, these are closed formats owned by Microsoft and
Adobe. Not everyone owns MS Office (rather expensive at around £300
here) or the software to edit Acrobat documents.Software to read both
these formats is generally available, but if we are talking about
translating brochures into local languages (including British English)
you'll need to edit them.
Why not make the text (as a .txt file) and the pictures (perhaps as
.jpg's) and also distrubute it as a .pdf? That way everyone can see
what it should look like and can use whatever software they have to
reproduce it for printing?
Not everyone uses (or wants to use) Microsoft products and it's a
mistake to assume that they can open and edit such documents.

Valete

Gaius Cornelius Severus
Linux user and enthusiast.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16996 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Ammianus Marcellinus on the Georgraphy of the Pontus Euxinus
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Ammianus Marcellinus on the Georgraphy of the Pontus
Euxinus":

http://www.dur.ac.uk/Classics/histos/1998/drijvers.html

This paper by J.W. Drijvers (Univ. of Groenigen) originally appeared
in _Histos_ 2 (1998).

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16997 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Salve Corneli Moravi,

ROFL!!! lets see, £10 for the charm comment, £35 for
the reference to good looks and a fiver for the
endorsement for Praetor. That makes a cheque for fifty
quid in the post to you my friend :-))))

Seriously, thanks for the endorsement mi amice. It is
very much appreciated.

Bene vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> I concur wholeheartidly ! I, for one, was definitely
> impressed with his
> charm ;-). As for is intelligence, I don't know, I
> couldn't get my eyes off
> his heavenly figure LOL
>
> GO on citizens, VOTE SILANUS
>
> Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus


________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16998 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Salve Diana Moravia,

> He will certainly make a great Praetor! Vote for
> Decimus Iunius Silanus!!

Thank you most kindly for this warmest of
endorsements. It is so very much appreciated. If
elected, I will do my utmost to prove you correct in
your estimation of me.

And of course, the very best to you in your own
campaign.

Bene vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 16999 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve Gnae Salix,

> The way I have been thinking about all that
> recruitment graphic
> material (brochures, flyers and posters) is that it
> should be easily
> adapted to local necessities.

You mention language, contact detail etc as reasons
for keeping recruitment literature adaptable. We in
Britannia felt that it would also be beneficial to
have targetted literature focused on specific
potential interest groups. Thus we could have a flyer
focussing on the religious aspects of Nova Roma for
pagan events and alternative flyers concentrating on
the educational aspects for museums or re-enactment
events.

Of course, all flyers would have core information,
thus all brochures would discuss all aspect of Nova
Roma but the emphasis on each piece of literature
would be slightly different to suit different
occasions and recruitment opportunities.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17000 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Can we dispense with the name calling?
Gaius Modius Athanasius Servio Equito Mercurio Troiano SPD

I understand you have taken it upon yourself to champion the rights and
debated rights of the youth of Nova Roma. The only youth within our ranks that I
have had any dealings with is Spurius Postumius Tubertus, and he has fulfilled
his duties with honor and dignity. I greatly support his involvement within
Nova Roma.

However, I would very much prefer if you ceased calling Agrippina Modia
Aurelia a "dreadful woman." She is opinionated yes, but she is far from dreadful
or foul. You too are opinionated, and not everyone is going to agree here in
this forum. I would strongly suggest you using different adjectives when
referring to fellow citizens.

Vale:

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/25/2003 12:40:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hermeticagnosis@... writes:
Now that dreadful Agrippina woman does seem to have it out for all Minors,
but that's just her own personal gripe and has nothing at all to do with the
Lex! So again, Relax my friend! As Justinian can assure you, I'd NEVER let it
happen! As for that foul Agrippina person, since she's determined to hate
Young People anyway so far as I'm concerned you should act in self defense against
her and tell what you think of her unjust, outrageous idea! She doesn't have
any Laws up for consideration, so all she's doing now is shooting her mouth
off - she's no threat to you, so Relax! DO go ahead and let her know what you
think of her though - even the Lex Minorum guarantees you continued freedom of
speech, so speak out against the bloody minded fool, by all means. I've
certainly let her know how I feel, and you're entitled to do the same!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17001 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Gai Corneli -

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 06:53:30AM +0000, Neil Lucock wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 22:27, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> > This generally means that the material should be available in an
> > electronic format that is easy to use and widespread. In that way,
> > our citizens will be able to adapt our material to local needs. I was
> > thinking about preparing our material in .doc and .pdf format (that
> > should cover most needs).
> >
> Salvete,
>
> although very common, these are closed formats owned by Microsoft and
> Adobe. Not everyone owns MS Office (rather expensive at around £300
> here) or the software to edit Acrobat documents.Software to read both
> these formats is generally available, but if we are talking about
> translating brochures into local languages (including British English)
> you'll need to edit them.
> Why not make the text (as a .txt file) and the pictures (perhaps as
> .jpg's) and also distrubute it as a .pdf? That way everyone can see
> what it should look like and can use whatever software they have to
> reproduce it for printing?
> Not everyone uses (or wants to use) Microsoft products and it's a
> mistake to assume that they can open and edit such documents.
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus
> Linux user and enthusiast.

Gai, since you use Linux, you've got the tools. :) Convert the PDF to
PostScript with "pdftops", and edit the resulting PostScript document at
will (I usually use The GIMP for this.) You can convert back, if you
need to, with "ps2pdf". Viewing PDFs, even encrypted ones, is done with
"xpdf-i".

The average brochure, when converted to a pure image format, is likely
to result in a _very_ large file size - at least when done with
reasonable compression (e.g., JPG quality of 90% to avoid artifacts.) I
don't know of a more universal format than PDF which can contain both
text and images.

Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for example in physics."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17002 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Centur
L. Arminius Faustus Aedilis Plebis quiritibus SPD


Wearing a black toga, with hair as supplicant, I´m picking my things and going to live some time the Sacred Mount, until elections. Besides virtual on my imagination, this is my thiny protest against the injustices on Lex Fabia. I claim Ceres, Goddess of the Plebeian Class, Iove Indigete, Father Ianus and Mars to be my testimonies, and the plebeians citizens to follow me.

And I urge plebeians to vote NO against Lex Fabia Centuriata. And I urge patricians to vote NO also, as sodales to our class.

I´ve seen many arguments pro this law, let me reply:

I - MISBALANCE - The Plebeains loses with this law. Because, now we will have a ´powerful´magistracy and a ´weaken´ magistracy. More CP will not add a bit to the real power of the Tribunes. But lowering a still weaken aedilship will destroy it. We had to IMPLORE to have plebeians aediles, and now there is a law saying ´yes, the plebeians aediles are a lesser magistracy. See the CP!`.

Good! Who will try a magistracy very specifically (only for plebeians) with no powers and no prestige? So better be Curule! So better be Tribune!

To the plebeian class, the problem is misbalance. The Tribuneship is consolidated. But the aedilship still isn´t. For the interest of the plebis, TWO CONSOLIDATED magistracies are good, not a strong and a weaken one.

II - AEDILES ARE MORE THAN VIRTUAL LUDI MAKERS - I urge all candidates, specially consulares and tribunares, to think dearly on legislations to make the aedilships equilibrated, as on Antiquita.

Or even, to make aediles something more than ludi makers.

Because the mistaken was before. So, the plebeians aediles will have to be careful, because any speciall duty to the Curules can mean their disonour on CP? And so the Curules will have to take care, because if the Plebeians get a duty, their will have problems.

The battle on Collegium Aediles has started!

III - THE LAW HAS GOOD POINTS, HOWEVER I cannot let it pass to sacrificing my magistracy WITHOUT necessity.

That is why I will not cease to vote NO and appeal to vote NO for Lex Fabia Centuriata. And I will cry this until elections!

Citizens, for me, I wouldn´t care a bit about this law. I´m candidate for Tribune (raising CP according to Lex) and a month more, good-by aedilship. So, why caring about?

But it is a question of honour.

Consul, please, reconsider. While there is no equality on the Law, I will continue to be contra. It is my ´sine qua non´ condition, and I swear on the years incoming I will do anything I can to correct it. If there is a mistaken on the Law of Equester order, the plebeian aediles must not be punished.

Unfortunatly, the law will pass. Why? Because the majority of NR laws passes. And Faustus? I´m going to Sacred Mount. At least, there, I can mourn my failure maintaining prestige on my magistracy.

This battle the Plebeian Aedilship has already lost, for sadness of our class.

Valete bene,



L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile, Quaestor,

Interpreter (lingua lusitaniae), Scriba propraetoris Brasiliae.

Visit my office at http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/index.html



"I too in words could fight even Immortals..."

Iliad, Homer, book XX

The answer of Hector about Achilles' speeches.



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail - 6MB, anti-spam e antivírus gratuito. Crie sua conta agora!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17003 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
ave Pauline,

thank you for your kind words;
let me once again say how much I value my collaboration with you in The
Eagle.

Marcus Iulius Perusianus *** for Quaestor ***
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:59:11 -0500
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
Subject: Re: Candidate for Quaestor

Salve Romans

As with the talented Livia Cornelia Hibernia I highly recommend to the
people the election of
Marcus Iulius Perusianus as Quaestor for the year 2757 AVC. He was and indispensable
, talented and committed member of the Eagle staff I support his election
will great enthusiasm and with thanks for a job well done!


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum 2756


Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
25/11/03 04.02
Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma

Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 944

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:12:02 +0100
From: m_iulius@...
Subject: Candidate for Quaestor

M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS S P D

Cives it's a honor for me to announce my candidacy as Quaestor for the year
2757 AVC.

I am 35 years old, Roman, Italian and a Novaroman patrician since 11
January 2002.
Outside Nova Roma I am a project manager in a software house, owned by a
national bank. I have a University diploma in Statistics and I've been a
soldier for three years (Lieutenant in the Italian army).

This is a brief curriculum vitae in Nova Roma:

2755 - Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae

2756 - Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Historicus Primus of Cohors Aedilis Curulis
- Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Curatoris Differum for The Eagle

In this personal page I've put all the information to know better who I
am in Nova Roma and what I have done in the past two years:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius


Why do I think I can be the right person as a Quaestor?

A Novaroman sees in the Cursus Honorum the better way to express his
dedication to Rome and Her ideals. And, after two years, I feel it's the
time to climb the first step!
Some of you could witness that, whenever I offered my help, I was able to
organize games during the ludi, write articles on regular basis, study and
publish detailed reports on many different topics, either inside or outside
my province.

But let me explain another perspective:
as Scriba ad Historiam first, and then as Scriba Historicus Primus , I have
followed the Magna Mater project from the very beginning, working for our
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (as Curule Aedile for 2755) and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar (current year).

Thanks to the possibility to visit the Temple and, why not, thanks to my
competence, I have fullfilled many duties the project needed.

To whom is not concerned about this, during these last two years I have
produced detailed reports on the Temple of Cybele and its bureaucratic
situation, going on the Palatine hill several times (last time it was just
15 days ago) and meeting important people.
Next year we need to develop a close collaboration with them! It is the
chance Nova Roma has to hurl its name in the scholar world and make
something with a living project on a real Roman monument! Again, this means
Nova Roma to be known in the academic environment.

As a Quaestor I promise to follow the Magna Mater project at best, myself
a person with a two years experience on this topic, and offer my job to
a magistrate who sees the goal we are aiming.
Things will be even better, as I am moving back to my beloved city, Rome,
and could have personal contact with these sholars and managers on a regular
basis. (see the Post Scriptum below for more information****).

This is why I think I should be a Quaestor for year 2757, and invite you
all to vote for me.

Of course any of you could send here or privately questions and to have
information. It will be my pleasure to answer them all.

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

PS
****This last period was much more fruitful: I met D.ssa Irene Iacopi,
chief of the Roman Forum and Palatine archeological areas; one month later
I met Prof. Patrizio Pensabene of the University of Rome. With both of them
have concluded generic agreements and shared useful ideas to begin a collaboration
in the future.
One word more for Prof.Pensabene, an excellent scholar and the best person
about the Southwestern side of the Palatine hill, the very place where the
temple stands. He was pleased to see someone like us, Nova Roma, so eager
to offer help for a topic so dear to him. As Franciscus Apulus Caesar said
here lately, now we have the possibility to enter into the world of the
first University of Rome "La Sapienza" and with Soprintendenza Archeologica
di Roma, the most important public manager in term of number of Roman monuments




________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:59:11 -0500
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
Subject: Re: Candidate for Quaestor

Salve Romans

As with the talented Livia Cornelia Hibernia I highly recommend to the
people the election of
Marcus Iulius Perusianus as Quaestor for the year 2757 AVC. He was and indispensable
, talented and committed member of the Eagle staff I support his election
will great enthusiasm and with thanks for a job well done!


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17004 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Salvete Omnes and Perusiane,

I give my full support to Illustrus Marcus Iulius Perusianus and I
invite you all to vote for him.

Perusianus is a my very good friend and trust me when I say that
he's one of the best nova roman citizen and man I knew. I'm sure he
coould have a wonderful future in our Res Publica and NR could grow
much thanking to his job.

In Provincia Italia he's doing a good job as Legatus Internis Rebus
organizing meeting, managing the internal affairs in Rome, creating
the local association, raising the taxes, etc ... a very precious
job for all the italic citizens. He created a wonderful project
called Signa Romanorum, a wonderful photo-archive of the roman
monuments in Italy and in Europe.

But I must to underline the very impoertant job done in my Cohors
Aedilis as Scriba. He's the mind and the hands of the
Project "Temple of Magna Mater" created by me and Consul
Quintilianus. He met the local istitutions, he met Prof. Pensabene
of teh University of Rome, he visited the archeological area making
special photos, he studied relations and documents about the temple
and the Goddess. I have to congratulate with him and to say "thank
you, Marce, for what you're doing for this project". If NR will
enter in the academical and archeological world in Italy, NR will
have to thank Marcus Iulius Perusianus.
I hope if he'll be elected as Quaestor, he'll can work about the
Project with the next Curule Aedile.

So, at the end leave me invite you all for the last time to vote
Marcus Iulius Perusianus as Quaestor.

Good luck, Marce!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17005 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: The Movie Troy
Salve Romans FYI


I saw a clip of the up coming Brad Pitt movie TROY and it looks real good. I hope the movie is as good as this clip. It seems the ancient world is a good source for movies again.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17006 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Ce
Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:

A lot, including:

> II - AEDILES ARE MORE THAN VIRTUAL LUDI MAKERS -
> I urge all candidates, specially consulares and tribunares,
> to think dearly on legislations to make the aedilships
> equilibrated, as on Antiquita.

I'm right with you on this Faustus. I know that the Plebian
Aediles predate the Curule Aediles as an office, and that
properly the only difference between the two was the curule
chair. I'd have been glad of some more help in dealing with
business disputes this year too.

> Or even, to make aediles something more than ludi makers.

The curule aediles already are. The plebian aediles should
be too. We'll fix this. Come to me in January and we'll
get to work on correcting the imballance. We can ask
Iulius Scaurus to join the effort. I'm sure he will.
He and I share a commitment to making the aediliship all
that it once was.

> The battle on Collegium Aediles has started!

No battle colleague. I'm perfectly aware that Caesar and
I owe our access to the temple of Ceres to you, our plebian
colleague.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17007 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve,
I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!

Vale,
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17008 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: ATthought for the Day
Salve Romans

Just a nice thought for the day.

The Triple Filter Test:

In ancient Greece, Socrates was reputed to hold knowledge in high esteem.


One day an acquaintance met the great philosopher and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about your friend?"


"Hold on a minute," Socrates replied. "Before telling me anything, I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the 'Triple Filter Test.'"


"Triple Filter?"


"That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my friend, it might be a good idea to take a moment and filter what you're going to say. The first filter is 'Truth.' Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"


"No," the man said, "actually, I just heard about it and ... "


"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second filter, the filter of 'Goodness.' Is what you are about to tell me about my friend something good?"


"No, on the contrary ... "


"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him, but you're not certain it's true. You may still pass the test though, because there's one filter left: the filter of 'Usefulness.' Is what you want to tell me about my friend going to be useful to me?"


"No, not really."


"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither true nor good nor even useful, why tell it to me at all?"

The acquaintance was silent.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17009 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
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Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
| The average brochure, when converted to a pure image format, is likely
| to result in a _very_ large file size - at least when done with
| reasonable compression (e.g., JPG quality of 90% to avoid artifacts.) I
| don't know of a more universal format than PDF which can contain both
| text and images.

Salvete, Cai Minuci Scaevola et Gai Corneli Severe.

Well...what about PostScript? THE most widely-spread text+image format.
Generally all the other formats get automatically converted to it before
printing, at least when dealing with PS printers. Gotta love it.

But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An established
standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which can
easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also, nothing beats
gzip:ed latex for size. :)

(Well, 'cept for bzip:ed or ppm:ed, but what the heck...gzip works.)

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17010 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
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Hash: SHA1

Charlie Collins wrote:
| I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!

Salve, Gnaeus Corneli Lentule.

Wish granted.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382731/

Unless you were talking about the one with Anthony Hopkins, of course.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17011 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Poorly Written Leges
Salvete Omnes,

This year we have seen a series of poorly thought out
Leges presented to the people so the latest examples
shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The Consular
CoHoard... Cohors, lives in a world of it's own where
proposals aren't vetted before intrested parties prior
to being suddenly announced on the mainlist.

Earlier this year a flawed version of the lex on
century points had to be withdrwan because it degraded
the postion of the Religio, and now we have a new
version of that Lex which degrades the postion of the
Pleb's Aedile relative to the Curile Aedile.

We had an Election Law that had to be rewritten
because it seems to have slipped the Consular
Cohort... Err Cohor's attention that they were dealing
with a Roman nation rather than a modern nation.

Now we have a real winner in the poorly written Lex
contest, a measure on Minors that ignores any and all
legal complications that nations impose on
organizations that accept minors as members. The
"minor" detail that Nova Roma's sovereign ststus isn't
recognized by any the nations it operates in seems to
be beyond the grasp of the Author of this lex.

Even if we were a sovereign nation operating on it's
own lands the lex on Minors contains another
fudemental flaw. It tacks an admendment to Nova Roma's
constution onto a Lex rather than following the proper
procedure of first amending the constution and then
proposing a Lex based on that change. I guess it was
assumed that the Senate would blindly rubberstamp
anything put before it so "minor" details like
aquiring Senatorial approval of changes to the
Constution weren't considered important.

The Consequances of what would happen if the Senate
rejected the portion requiring changes to the
Constution dosen't seem to have been given any
consideration. The Senate wasn't even considered
important enough to bother informing it about a
measure it would be expected to vote on and fisrt read
about it on this list.

I Shouldn't be surprised. The Religio hasn't been
consulted on matters that affect it before the
Pontiffs read about them as a proposal for a vote. The
Plebs aeren't consulted before matters that affect
them are presented for a vote. The Senate isn't
consulted before matters are presented to them for a
vote.

Bureaucracies tend to look inward and the overly
Bureacratic staff that the Senior Consul set up is a
prime example of this tendacy. The poorly thought out
laws that consider nothing other than agenda of the
inward looking Consular Cohors are a natural outcome
of a Bureacarcy that protects it's turf by avoiding
contact with those outside it's circle.

L. Sicinius Drusus


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17012 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salvete omnes,

Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the
Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman
Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
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> Charlie Collins wrote:
> | I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!
>
> Salve, Gnaeus Corneli Lentule.
>
> Wish granted.
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382731/
>
> Unless you were talking about the one with Anthony Hopkins, of
course.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17013 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
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Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
| Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the
| Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman
| Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.

Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.

Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to get
you through:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/

It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on IMDB.
Available through amazon or wherever. :)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17014 From: Daniel Dreesbach Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy for Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy entertainment and administrating games. I am a fair judge and realize that games are meant to be enjoyed.




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17015 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Aedile Faustus is going to the Sacred Mount contra Lex Fabia Ce
Salve,

Marinus, you are like ambrosia on my hurts. As you know, I gladly can
help to put aediles on their place. Alas, one of my platforms if I
have the honour to be elected Tribune.

When I said battle, I mean, not this year. Alas, let me correct ´A
battle on Collegium Aediles has fuel to start any time´. Thanks gods,
we have heads... but you know human nature... we can promise
Concordia for today, maybe tomorrow no. Alas, a Collegium mean
equality. If you take equality, there is no Collegium, perhaps a big
hierarchical staff. I myself sometimes wonder if is right (or roman)
even calling ´Senior and Iunior´ magistrates.

I feel very disgusted to have to come here shouting like a maniac
about this law. Because simple law discussions can slip easy on
strong personal patterns of hate. It is elections. There is people
thinking I´m at side of Fabius rivals, whoever they are, trying to be
a ´Kamikaze´ to make turmoil against him on the elections. Nothing
more wrong.

Alas, my revolt is to see a good law with this so big and unnecessary
mistake, like seeing a green smashed bug a on the top of a delicious
chantilly wedding cake.

...Bad conscience...

Yes, I´m with heavy conscience, bad conscience, whatever is the
expression on English.

Why?

Because since the very start of the Aedilship, I wondered ´well, what
a hell an plebeian aedile do´?

All the aedilship of NR was on ´air´. But there was the turmoil of
some aedilitian edictas on the very start of the year. So, I was
´afraid´ to start the discussion.

Now, the problem comes on the image of a Law. Since there was no
definition of the Plebeian Aedilship, the makers of the law supposed
it was a lesser magistrature. On the contrary of the Roman way, that
saw the same powers, however, fair specifical for the needs of the
plebs.

Well... ira furor brevis est. I´m tired.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:
>
> A lot, including:
>
> > II - AEDILES ARE MORE THAN VIRTUAL LUDI MAKERS -
> > I urge all candidates, specially consulares and tribunares,
> > to think dearly on legislations to make the aedilships
> > equilibrated, as on Antiquita.
>
> I'm right with you on this Faustus. I know that the Plebian
> Aediles predate the Curule Aediles as an office, and that
> properly the only difference between the two was the curule
> chair. I'd have been glad of some more help in dealing with
> business disputes this year too.
>
> > Or even, to make aediles something more than ludi makers.
>
> The curule aediles already are. The plebian aediles should
> be too. We'll fix this. Come to me in January and we'll
> get to work on correcting the imballance. We can ask
> Iulius Scaurus to join the effort. I'm sure he will.
> He and I share a commitment to making the aediliship all
> that it once was.
>
> > The battle on Collegium Aediles has started!
>
> No battle colleague. I'm perfectly aware that Caesar and
> I owe our access to the temple of Ceres to you, our plebian
> colleague.
>
> -- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17016 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Salve,

Well... another hope, the forth! Our cries are not in vane!

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@y...>
wrote:
>
> I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy for
Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy entertainment and administrating games. I
am a fair judge and realize that games are meant to be enjoyed.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17017 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Salve

but only one is list on the elections page, it should have three and later a fourth .

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com


Salve,

Well... another hope, the forth! Our cries are not in vane!

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@y...>
wrote:
>
> I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy for
Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy entertainment and administrating games. I
am a fair judge and realize that games are meant to be enjoyed.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17018 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Salvete Quirites!

I'm going to keep it short:

After a long period of reflection, I have decided to declare my candidacy for the praetorship.

Many of you have seen my performance as Treasury Quaestor this year. I have tried to work fast, reliably and professionally, and I dare say my conduct of office met the high standards I set up for myself.
People have commended me as "fast", as "a hard worker" and as "a very capable and responsive Quaestor".
It was a pleasure for me to serve Nova Roma as a Quaestor. I want to continue my service: As a Praetor.

I promise you that I will show the same dedication that I have shown in the last year.

Thank you for listening, and please consider voting for me as Praetor.

--
Optime valete!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
25.11.2003 16:52:44
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17019 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Declaration of candidacy
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus [declared for Praetor]

Marvelous news! Thank you for stepping forward Noricus.
You've done good work as a Quaestor, and I'm sure you'll
do well as a Praetor too. You can bet that when I get to
my endorsement of praetorian candidates, your name will
be on it.

Congratulations on taking the next step, and may the
gods smile on you.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17020 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: TIME TO VOTE 18.00 ROMAN TIMES in Comitia Centuria
Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Tuesday the 25th of November

Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Sunday the 30th of November

===========================
AGENDA Comitia Centuriata

1. Lex Fabia Centuriata
2. LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17021 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: TIME TO VOTE 18.00 ROMAN TIME in Comitia Populi Tributa
Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Voting shall begin at 18.00 Roman time Tuesday the 25th of November

Voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Sunday the 30th of November

===========================
AGENDA Comitia Populi Tributa

1. Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17022 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete Omnes,
I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is for
you all the Cursus Honorum?
I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?

Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of cursus.
Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this
questions.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17023 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete Omnes,
sorry, another questions for you all...
wy in your opinion the ancient romans had to accomplish the Cursus
honorum step by step?

Thank you again.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
> I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is
for
> you all the Cursus Honorum?
> I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
> I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
> ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?
>
> Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of
cursus.
> Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this
> questions.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
> Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17024 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: ATthought for the Day
Salve, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus -

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 08:51:13AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> Just a nice thought for the day.
>
> The Triple Filter Test:
>
> In ancient Greece, Socrates was reputed to hold knowledge in high
> esteem.
>
>
> One day an acquaintance met the great philosopher and said, "Socrates,
> do you know what I just heard about your friend?"
>
>
> "Hold on a minute," Socrates replied. "Before telling me anything, I'd
> like you to pass a little test. It's called the 'Triple Filter Test.'"
>
>
> "Triple Filter?"
>
>
> "That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my
> friend, it might be a good idea to take a moment and filter what
> you're going to say. The first filter is 'Truth.' Have you made
> absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"
>
>
> "No," the man said, "actually, I just heard about it and ... "
>
>
> "All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or
> not. Now let's try the second filter, the filter of 'Goodness.' Is
> what you are about to tell me about my friend something good?"
>
>
> "No, on the contrary ... "
>
>
> "So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about
> him, but you're not certain it's true. You may still pass the test
> though, because there's one filter left: the filter of 'Usefulness.'
> Is what you want to tell me about my friend going to be useful to me?"
>
>
> "No, not really."
>
>
> "Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither
> true nor good nor even useful, why tell it to me at all?"
>
> The acquaintance was silent.

"...and that was why Socrates never found out that Xantippe was cheating
on him with Plato."

<grin> I didn't come up with it, though. Somebody got in ahead of me.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Whatever this may be, I fear the Greeks even when they're bringing gifts.
-- Vergil, "Aenis. The priest Laokoon's warning when seeing the Trojan horse."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17025 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salvete Quirites; et salve, C. Minuci.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Hmmm. Well, I'm willing to toss a possibility up in the air and see
> how it strikes people here. Note, right off the bat, that I'm not
> putting this as a proposition for a Lex or anything like that: I'm
> simply interested to see if a significant number of people here
> find the idea acceptable or even interesting. Given the recent
> discussion of verifying age and the cowardly puppet attack on
> Marinus, I definitely see quite a bit of appeal in the idea. As
> well, if there _is_ interest in doing this, I would be happy to
> post step-by-step instructions (I'd probably make up a Web page,
> actually) for anyone who wishes to do this.
>
> One of the things I teach for a living is computer security. In a
> situation such as this, there really _is_ no way to establish the
> original /bona fides/ unless we have something like key-signing
> parties [1] and use, e.g., PGP/GPG signed mail when posting - as
> Titus Octavius Pius does, and as I will do with this post when I
> send it (see <http://okopnik.freeshell.org/misc.html> for my public
> keys.)
>
> Although this is technically feasible (and in fact very easy), it
> would not be trivial to implement. In effect, it would require
> almost every Nova Roman to meet at least two (and preferably as
> many more as possible) other Nova Romans and have enough
> interaction to verify each other's identity so that these other
> people would be willing to say "yes, there is such a person as,
> e.g., Gnaeus Salix Astur".
>
> Building this so-called "web of trust" would have a number of
> positive effects, including additional motivation for gatherings.
> It would also strongly mitigate against puppets in serious
> discussion (where everyone involved would presumably sign their
> mail), and would, for example, provide a guarantee that the
> instructions sent to our Curator Araneum do indeed come from, e.g.,
> the Consul who ostensibly sent them. Note that no computer is
> required at the party - bringing one for the purpose is, in fact,
> discouraged in the HOWTO recommended below. All that would be
> required from any participant would be their physical presence, two
> forms of positive (picture) ID, and the key data they've generated
> for themselves.
>
> The negative effects, just to toss in some data for balance, would
> be the requirement of learning how to use the encryption/signing
> software (5-15 minutes, in my estimation), and the possible
> alienation of the people who are unwilling or unable to meet other
> Nova Romans.
>
>
> [1] See item #1, "Overview Of The Party", in the "GnuPG Keysigning
> Party HOWTO" <http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html>
>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola

We are now talking big game here, Cai Minuci :-).
Of course, it would be desirable to certify the identity of the
sender of each message through public key codes. However, I don't
know if it would be an idea that would have too much success.
Unfortunately, PGP is still too "user-unfriendly", if you know what I
mean. In any case, you have my blessing to try to exchange PGP
sgnatures with as many citizens as you can :-).

As for verification through personal interaction, I guess that thatis
the closest we can get to actual identity verification. You, for
example, can ask the citizens of Hispania if they have ever met
Gnaeus Salix Astur, and many of them they will tell you that they
have met a real person going through that name (some of them several
times :-) ). Incidentally, that person was pretty similar to the
photography of Gnaeus Salix Astur in the Album Civium (although there
is no beard anymore ;-) ). So I guess that, seen from a certain
perspective, the need for verification is *another* good reason to
support local activities and local groups in Nova Roma.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17026 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
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Salvete, quirites.

I stand before you, for the third time robed in the toga candida, this
time to seek the office of Curule Aedile.

Two years ago, you elected me to serve you in the position of
Quaestor, displaying a faith in me I did my utmost to prove true.
Serving under the senior Consul, I worked with collecting your taxes for
the first time ever, and tried to conduct this duty to the full extent
of my abilities.

Last year, you again elected me, this time to act as your webmaster in
the office of Curator Araneum, a duty which I believe I have performed
to the best of my abilities.

This year, I ask for your permission to assume the office of Curule
Aedile, what would be my next step on the classical cursus honorum.

As Curule Aedile, I plan to further the work done by this year's Aediles
~ on the Magna Mater project, started by the Aediles of last year. The
work there is of utmost importance to Nova Roma's credibility to the
academic community. I hope to be able to work with Marcus Iulius
Perusianus on this project, as we are both very much interested in it's
success.

Also, naturally, I will, together with my colleagues, offer you panem et
circensis, as is the duty of the Aediles to present to the people. I
promise a close cooperation with the collegium ponteficium to make the
ludi a proper tribute to those our republic is dedicated to, to those we
owe any claim we have to glory, the gods of Roma, Nova et Antiqua.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/w4mIAGtgaSonkUoRAi3YAJ4ko91+uk89fIqelTKuAyVhmnbmBACffxo4
TT2dfO2C9FiJ0bL3LyI2yOs=
=najf
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17027 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 03:05:33PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
> | The average brochure, when converted to a pure image format, is likely
> | to result in a _very_ large file size - at least when done with
> | reasonable compression (e.g., JPG quality of 90% to avoid artifacts.) I
> | don't know of a more universal format than PDF which can contain both
> | text and images.
>
> Salvete, Cai Minuci Scaevola et Gai Corneli Severe.
>
> Well...what about PostScript? THE most widely-spread text+image format.
> Generally all the other formats get automatically converted to it before
> printing, at least when dealing with PS printers. Gotta love it.

Heck, I certainly wouldn't mind - but even though Wind0ws uses PS to
print, the utilities for viewing it aren't common, AFAIK (Ghostscript is
rather a pain to install, too; I remember giving up after several hours.
This was a number of years ago, however.) I wonder if Adobe would
display it? After all, PDF is nothing more than compressed and slightly
modified PS.

> But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An established
> standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which can
> easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also, nothing beats
> gzip:ed latex for size. :)

Now you're talking professional-grade stuff, the kind of thing that a
commercial printer would love to see (all the typesetting is already
done!) However, I've never played with TeX on Wind0ws. I think the
equivalent in that world is FrameMaker, and it's $seriously expensive$.

> (Well, 'cept for bzip:ed or ppm:ed, but what the heck...gzip works.)

I don't use it much myself, but I did a test on a variety of file types
and sizes for the Linux Gazette, and would you believe that RAR gives
the best average compression of any of them, by a clear margin? Although
"bzip" does pretty well, too: 100MB of nulls compress to 113 _bytes,_
and 1GB's worth comes out to 753b.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17028 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Gai Corneli.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> >
> although very common, these are closed formats owned by Microsoft
> and Adobe. Not everyone owns MS Office (rather expensive at around
> £300 here) or the software to edit Acrobat documents.Software to
> read both these formats is generally available, but if we are
> talking about translating brochures into local languages (including
> British English) you'll need to edit them.
> Why not make the text (as a .txt file) and the pictures (perhaps as
> .jpg's) and also distrubute it as a .pdf? That way everyone can see
> what it should look like and can use whatever software they have to
> reproduce it for printing?
> Not everyone uses (or wants to use) Microsoft products and it's a
> mistake to assume that they can open and edit such documents.

I included .pdf precisely because I knew that there would be some
Linux Enthusiast that would hold a grudge against me if I didn't :-).

In the past, I have used .pdf files with Acrobat Reader that could be
modified before printing (although the modifications could not be
saved). Perhaps we could do it that way. But if you prefer a .jpg
image, I am sure that it will be very easy to create one from other
formats.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17029 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete quirites,

Franciscus Apulus Caesar asked:

> what is for you the Cursus Honorum?

It's "the way of honor." The succession of political
offices by which a Roman establishes himself as noble,
by the Roman definition of nobility. This idea of
nobility is independent of plebian or patrician ancestry,
and relies on accumulated honors which recognize a person's
service to the state.

> what does it means and why do we use it?

I gave the definition above. We have a cursus honorum
here in Nova Roma to provide a structure by which those
citizens who wish to be politically active may begin as
more junior magistrates and then advance to more senior
magistracies. Since our magistrates often come to Nova
Roma with considerable life experience gained outside
of Nova Roma, our cursus honorum is more flexible than
that of Roma Antiqua.

> what were the goals of the original ancient roman
> cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?

The cursus honorum of Roma Antiqua was intended to provide
a young man with a series of increasingly important offices
in which he would learn the business of government. In Nova
Roma, our cursus honorum does much the same thing, though
it provides somewhat greater flexibility in how politically
active citizens may progress.

> why did the ancient romans have to accomplish the Cursus
> honorum step by step?

It was the custom of the time, though it was not always
followed. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus was elected Consul
without ever having served as Praetor, or even been in
the Senate. The compelling reason for completing the cursus
honorum step by step was that for most of the centuries of
the Republic, that was the only way to learn how to carry
out the job of not only your own current magistracy, but also
the next senior magistracy. Each step was in some respects
an apprenticeship for the next step.

But even in antiquity the lower portions of the cursus
honorum varied from one person to another. Patricians
pretty much had to begin it as Quaestors, though Plebians
could enter as Tribunes instead. The Aediliship was
optional, and usually bypassed by those who couldn't afford
the expenses of the office. A person with consular ambition
pretty much had to serve a year as praetor first, though as
noted above even that didn't always happen. The only office
I can think of that always required the prior step on the
cursus honorum was that of Censor, for which the candidate
must have been Consul, and then been out of public office
for at least five years.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17030 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salve Franciscus Apulus,

The Cursus Honorum was the path by which politicians were expected to
rise through the ranks - historically I believe it was senator first
then quaestor before praetor and then consul. I do not believe the
aedileship was considered part of the cursus but I may be wrong.

For me personally it is also about ability to serve as well as
desire. I believe that my own strengths and experiences will stand me
in best stead as praetor. That is one of the reasons I decided to
campaign for this office above any other.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

> Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of
cursus.
> Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this
> questions.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
> Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17031 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
Salve Laureatus Armoricus,
That was kind of you.
I can't think of anything that has not already been said on this
topic at least twice, lol.
Wouldn't this be the time for the jury to begin deliberations?
Seriously, the oppinions are out there and some are getting hot. I
realize that there will always be disagreements and debates but I
hate to see fighting and hard feelings between people that work
towards a common goal of bringing back the glory days of Roma.
Bring in a ruling someone and then the discussions can go back to
more talk of Rome.
I became interested at first in the religio section and yes, at first
I though this was a Role Playing site but learned it was real which
is even better then pretending!
I'd like to get back to living the Roman ways and learning about Rome
and talking about it instead of arguing.
NR needs to be protected (if it is at risk).
Fish or cut bait, do or do not, it's time to act.
Vale Justinian



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Laureatus Armoricus"
<laureatusarmoricus@t...> wrote:
> Well said Justinian !
>
> Now who wants to kick him out ? He speaks better than most of us
oldies here
> ! Justinian should be an example rather than the subject of
> discrimination...
>
> Valete
>
> Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
> http://www.users.tinyworld.co.uk/laurenttriangle/index.htm
> "To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trajan Justinian [mailto:harrituspotterus1@y...]
> Sent: 24 November 2003 18:51
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
>
>
> Salvete,
> I'm still trying to catch up on the more than 100 posts over the
> weekend, lol.
> My oppinion was brief.
> As a minor I believe that we should be allowed to interact on the
> lists as long as we maintain a level of decorum equall to that of
the
> Citizens who post (maybe that should be equal to the virtues of Nova
> Roma for not all citizens portray those virtues ;)
> but we would not be able to vote untill we become of age and are
> accepted into a proper Family and citizenship.
> To my eyes this subject has gone from an anthill to a mountain but I
> guess someone has to keep an eye out for the insignificant petty
> topics that would otherwise go unnoticed like grass growing, lol.
>
> What has been done to protect NR up till now?
> How has anyone been verified as an adult up to this point in time?
> How do other sites protect themselves? Like porn-sites? From what
I
> know about any on-line site or even software download is that you
> click a button that says I agree or I disagree with a disclaimer or
> agreement and that covers their arses. Maybe we can do the same?
>
> Some very astute citizen mentioned that someone who is knowledgable
> with the Law should be consulted first. It's always best to get the
> answers from someone reliable who has the facts and not from some
> drugstore lawyer chasing an ambulance just to be heard. I agree,
> this way NR is sure there might possibly be an issue before running
> half cocked for the hills.
> If that has been done and there are legal problems with minors, then
> this can go further and those in the position to make choices will
> most likely make the best possible choice for NR. If not, once
> again, the good citizens of NR have been tied up in red tape chasing
> their poodle tails, lol.
>
> I exist here by the pleasure of those in Nova Roma with the brains
> and political power to make intelligent decisions. I believe in
them
> and trust them to do what is best for everyone with no petty or
> personal reasons behind that. They have shown themselves to be fair
> and forgiving and I will abide by whatever choices they make and
> appreciate having a chance to say my part for whatever difference it
> makes.
>
> And my many thanks to you for asking what I think and taking the
time
> to listen and give me a chance. Its people like you that can affect
> how people like me turn out when we get older.
> Likewise the sorry, sad, dissatisfied and unhappy bitter elders tend
> to create similar attitudes in people like me also.
> I'm glad there are more people like you around.
>
> Valete in gratius,
> Justinian
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus
> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > Salve Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor!
> >
> > It is always best to hear from those who would be most effected
> by a piece of legislation.
> > I changed my own views on this topic when my friend and "adoptia
> filio" Justinian wrote with his opinion (he's 17).
> > As you follow the debate, please let me know what your opinions
> are: This matters far more to you, my Justinian, and the other
> Minorae than it does to the Honourable L S Drusus. So please keep
me
> informed of your views, so I can argue on behalf of those who will
be
> most effected by this.
> > Wishing you the best always,
> > Vale bene
> > Servius
> Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scriboni89@a...
> > Sent: Nov 20, 2003 2:23 PM
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
> >
> > <html><body>
> >
> >
> > <tt>
> > Salve,<BR>
> > <BR>
> >     I would like to say that I completely disagree with Senator L.
> Sicinius <BR>
> > Drusus. Speaking as a minor and an Italian Catholic, I must say
> that my parents <BR>
> > completely understood what I was joining. I do not see how anyone
> would be <BR>
> > deceived by the true nature of Nova Roma. Also I don't even agree
> about the idea <BR>
> > of parents having to join along with their children. If the parent
> gives <BR>
> > permission the minor should be allowed citizenship. If there are
> questions of <BR>
> > forgery then have them send a copy of a license along with the
> signature. I figure <BR>
> > I would give my view on that topic. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > BENE.VALE.<BR>
> > I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.<BR>
> > ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.<BR>
> > GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.<BR>
> > DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> >
> > <br>
> >
> > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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>
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cf0fq1m/M=267637.4116719.5338353.12617
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> w.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116719" alt=""><img
>
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/yhoo1103_a_300250A
> .gif" alt="click here" width="300" height="250"
> border="0"></a></td></tr></table> </td>
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> > <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
> src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
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M=267637.4116719.5338353.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1853618/rand=101
> 792645"></td></tr>
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> >
> > <br>
> > <tt>
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> > <br>
> >
> > <br>
> > <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
> href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
> Service</a>.</tt>
> > </br>
> >
> > </body></html>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17032 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur; salvete, Quirites.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 05:13:14PM -0000, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> We are now talking big game here, Cai Minuci :-).

<grin> Yes. Note that I put all kinds of disclaimers at the beginning of
the post for just that reason, including this comment:

> > Although this is technically feasible (and in fact very easy), it
> > would not be trivial to implement.

> Of course, it would be desirable to certify the identity of the
> sender of each message through public key codes. However, I don't
> know if it would be an idea that would have too much success.
> Unfortunately, PGP is still too "user-unfriendly", if you know what I
> mean.

Yep. As I said, it would require a few minutes of careful reading rather
than just pushing a button. However, most of us live busy lives, and
assigning priority to something like this isn't likely to happen
spontaneously, or without a clearly-demonstrated need. I suggest it as a
possible solution for us to look at, since some level of need definitely
exists; the question, of course, is just how compelling it is.

> As for verification through personal interaction, I guess that thatis
> the closest we can get to actual identity verification. You, for
> example, can ask the citizens of Hispania if they have ever met
> Gnaeus Salix Astur, and many of them they will tell you that they
> have met a real person going through that name (some of them several
> times :-) ).

I would say that local webs of trust could be built fairly easily -
you'd have no problem with finding people to vouch for you! :) - and
whenever someone does cross an ocean, they'd be fairly easy to connect.

> Incidentally, that person was pretty similar to the
> photography of Gnaeus Salix Astur in the Album Civium (although there
> is no beard anymore ;-) ). So I guess that, seen from a certain
> perspective, the need for verification is *another* good reason to
> support local activities and local groups in Nova Roma.

Absolutely! I was looking at it as stimulating both cause _and_ effect.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Amicus certus in re incerta cernitur.
A friend in need is a friend indeed.
-- Ennius, quoted by Cicero.
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=mo7q
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17033 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Titus Octavius Pius [declared for Curule Aedile]

And the hits just keep on coming...

I'm very pleased to see you standing for Aedile Pius.
I think you'll make a superb colleague for Gaius
Iulius Scaurus. I am satisfied that you'll be able
to build on the good work that Caesar and I have been
able to accomplish this year, and that Caeso Fabius
and I began last year.

You may count on my endorsement, and on my vote.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17034 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Yes, I observed it today! I hope the Curatores fix it. There is four
candidates. The Tribunes have more information.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve
>
> but only one is list on the elections page, it should have three
and later a fourth .
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:21 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Well... another hope, the forth! Our cries are not in vane!
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Plebeian Aedile
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Dreesbach
<stakor2000@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy
for
> Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy entertainment and administrating games.
I
> am a fair judge and realize that games are meant to be enjoyed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17035 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Recruitment Categories
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Decime Iuni Silane.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:

> You mention language, contact detail etc as reasons
> for keeping recruitment literature adaptable. We in
> Britannia felt that it would also be beneficial to
> have targetted literature focused on specific
> potential interest groups. Thus we could have a flyer
> focussing on the religious aspects of Nova Roma for
> pagan events and alternative flyers concentrating on
> the educational aspects for museums or re-enactment
> events.

That sounds like a very good idea!

> Of course, all flyers would have core information,
> thus all brochures would discuss all aspect of Nova
> Roma but the emphasis on each piece of literature
> would be slightly different to suit different
> occasions and recruitment opportunities.

You have convinced me :-). We will try to create several different
sets of material. What would be the categories? I can think of the
following:

* Religious
* Educational
* Recreationist
* Ludic

Can you think of additional ones?

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17036 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment Categories
Salvete Gnae salix et Omnes

> You have convinced me :-). We will try to create several different
> sets of material. What would be the categories? I can think of the
> following:
>
> * Religious
> * Educational
> * Recreationist
> * Ludic
>
> Can you think of additional ones?

That might do it in the first instance. Allows us to keep the
emphasis on quality rather than quantity ;-)

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17037 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salvete Quirites.


[T. Octavius Pius wrote:]
>> But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An
>> established
>> standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which
>> can easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also,
>> nothing beats gzip:ed latex for size. :)

[And C. Minucius Scaevola replied:]
> Now you're talking professional-grade stuff, the kind of thing that
> a commercial printer would love to see (all the typesetting is
> already done!) However, I've never played with TeX on Wind0ws. I
> think the equivalent in that world is FrameMaker, and it's
> $seriously expensive$.

Well, I am happy to be among real experts in this subject :-).
Rest assured that I will be calling for your expertise in the months
to come, should I be elected ;-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17038 From: Laureatus Armoricus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!
Talking about money, I still owe you some taxes don't I ? Please let me know
how much you pay and I'll forward a cheque...

Vale

Laureatus
http://www.users.tinyworld.co.uk/laurenttriangle/index.htm
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

-----Original Message-----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus [mailto:danedwardsuk@...]
Sent: 25 November 2003 09:38
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Vote Iunius and Arminius for Praetor!


Salve Corneli Moravi,

ROFL!!! lets see, £10 for the charm comment, £35 for
the reference to good looks and a fiver for the
endorsement for Praetor. That makes a cheque for fifty
quid in the post to you my friend :-))))

Seriously, thanks for the endorsement mi amice. It is
very much appreciated.

Bene vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> I concur wholeheartidly ! I, for one, was definitely
> impressed with his
> charm ;-). As for is intelligence, I don't know, I
> couldn't get my eyes off
> his heavenly figure LOL
>
> GO on citizens, VOTE SILANUS
>
> Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17039 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Francisce Apule.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is
> for you all the Cursus Honorum?
> I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
> I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
> ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?

The Cursus Honorum is, in my humble opinion, one of the masterpieces
of the Roman political and administrative system. Let me please
explain this concept further.

In our modern democracies, we often have to vote to elect a public
official from a list of candidates. But, how often does one of the
candidates have the appropriate level of expertise? How can I know if
Governor Schwarzenegger (just an example; no offence meant) will be a
good governor, if he has never performed political or administrative
tasks before? I can certainly have an opinion about his merits as an
actor; but a successful actor is not necessarily a good politician.

Of course, it goes without saying that someone can be a good
politician *without* pevious experience, and that someone can have
all the experience in the world and be an awful politician. But who
would you trust more; a doctor with previous experience or one with
no experience?

The Romans thought that, in order to be a good consul, it was a good
idea to have previous experience in guvernamental tasks. So they
devised a sequence of positions of growing responsability that would
teach politicians to actually handle the Republic. And I think that
Rome's success is a good measure of the apropriateness of that idea.

Is it a good idea to use the same system in Nova Roma? Well; I
certainly welcome the experience I have gained as tribunus plebis and
praetor now that I intend to face the complexities surrounding the
consulship. Is it strictly necessary? Perhaps it isn't; but I still
think that it is a good idea to teach people how to do one thing
before sending them to do it.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17040 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal
Salve!

All vey good points. Thank you for raising them in such a clear and concise manner. I'm all in favour of being in compliance, and protecting NRs financial interests, however I continue to support the membership of Minors even if it means extra work and extra protections/permissions and extra headaches for the Board of Directors. It is NOT just a "feel good" decision: It is based on very strong principles and a sense of Duty and Justice - anything less would be Un-Roman.

Vale
Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
Sent: Nov 21, 2003 4:05 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal

<html><body>


<tt>
<BR>
Fine, go ahead and have a poll, be sure to include where the funds are<BR>
going to come from if we find ourselves involved in a Civil action due<BR>
to Parenatl Consent, To failure to comply with COOPA or with some<BR>
other law.<BR>
<BR>
"Protecting" Minors on the internet is a popular political buzz<BR>
phrase. The Laws regarding this matter are rapidly evolving. That is a<BR>
matter that I have to be concerned with as a member of the BoD of Nova<BR>
Roma Inc. I don't have the freedom of not considering where we will<BR>
get the funding if we have legal costs involved with granting<BR>
membership to minors. I Don't have the freedom of not considering the<BR>
steps we have to take to insure that we are in compliance with rapidly<BR>
changing laws of over 24 nations and political subdivisions within<BR>
those nations.<BR>
<BR>
A Private citizen can take a feelgood approach to granting citizenship<BR>
to minors. I Can't. I Have the responsibility of dealing with the<BR>
legal consequances that may come from it.<BR>
<BR>
Now I have some tough questions for the canidates who want to take on<BR>
that responsibility.<BR>
<BR>
What measures will you employ to raise the funds to pay for a legal<BR>
defense if Nova Roma is involved in a Civil action?<BR>
<BR>
What procedures will you impliment to insure that Nova Roma is in<BR>
compliance with laws protecting the privacy of Minors?<BR>
<BR>
What Procedures will you implement to insure that Nova Roma is in<BR>
compliance with laws regarding a Parents request for information<BR>
regarding thier Minor child?<BR>
<BR>
L. Sicinius Drusus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"<BR>
<diana@p...> wrote:<BR>
>  Salve, Gnaeus Scribonius Scriptor -<BR>
> <BR>
> Scaevola said:<BR>
> > Please, Amice... pay it no mind. If Nova Roma was to ever<BR>
deteriorate to<BR>
> > the point where it did something that horribly discriminatory, it<BR>
would<BR>
> > become so repulsive that most people here would have left it long<BR>
> > before.<BR>
> <BR>
> I agree with what Scaevola said above. Don't worry about it.<BR>
> Citizens are free to say how they feel here about new lexes-- and we<BR>
all do-- with great enthusiasm.<BR>
> <BR>
> Vale,<BR>
> Diana Moravia<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17041 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Sorry to write once again on this subject, but I'm
worried that some people may be confused about exactly
what's being voted for, and I'd like to try to make it
clearer.

You say:

> I believe you are mistaken: I have read the Lex,
> and assure you that the Honourable LS Drusus has no
> desire to ban minors!

Let's be clear.

1. Senator Sicinius Drusus is *not* the author of this
lex.

He opposes it (because he believes it increases the
danger of legal problems to Nova Roma and, to judge
from his most recent message on the subject, because
he dislikes the prose style).

2. This lex does *not* seek to ban minors.

It seeks to do precisely the opposite: to allow minors
who cannot currently become citizens to do so, and to
give them various rights.

3. No one has at any time proposed to ban minors from
Nova Roma.

This idea is the reddest of herrings (or should that
be 'herring'?). It is not going to happen. The lex
does not propose it, and it's opponents don't either.

4. To decide whether to vote for this lex, you need to
ask yourself three questions:

- Am I in favour of letting people who are under 18
who don't have a citizen for a parent join Nova Roma,
which they cannot currently do?

If 'Yes', vote for the lex.

- Am I in favour of giving citizens who are under 18
most of the rights of citizenship, which they
currently do not have?

If 'Yes', vote for the lex.

- Do I think this lex will make the danger of lawsuits
being filed against Nova Roma greater than it is now?

If 'Yes', vote against the lex.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17042 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment Categories
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Decime Iuni Silane.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Decimus Iunius Silanus"
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Gnae salix et Omnes
>
>> You have convinced me :-). We will try to create several different
>> sets of material. What would be the categories? I can think of the
>> following:
>>
>> * Religious
>> * Educational
>> * Recreationist
>> * Ludic
>>
>> Can you think of additional ones?
>
> That might do it in the first instance. Allows us to keep the
> emphasis on quality rather than quantity ;-)

So be it :-).
So, citizens, start exercising your artistic skills. I foresee that
we are going to have a lot of fun designing this recruitment campaign
together ;-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17043 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Latin forms of address (reprise)
Placidia Prisca - A. Apollonio Cordo SPD

Please add me to your list. Vale et gratias tibi ago.


In a message dated 24/11/03 18:21:51 GMT Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Curator Galerius Paulinus' question
>
> >How do you intend to "fix" our public latin?
>
> has suddenly reminded me that a while ago I offered to
> share with you my notes of a book on Latin forms of
> address. It took me far longer than I expected to type
> them up, and I'd forgotten until now that I'd done it.
>
> I still have a record of everyone who asked me for a
> copy the first time round, so I'll send them all a
> copy soon, but first I thought I'd see whether there's
> anyone else who'd like to be added to my list.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17044 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur; salvete, omnes.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 06:57:07PM -0000, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> [T. Octavius Pius wrote:]
> >> But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An
> >> established
> >> standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which
> >> can easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also,
> >> nothing beats gzip:ed latex for size. :)
>
> [And C. Minucius Scaevola replied:]
> > Now you're talking professional-grade stuff, the kind of thing that
> > a commercial printer would love to see (all the typesetting is
> > already done!) However, I've never played with TeX on Wind0ws. I
> > think the equivalent in that world is FrameMaker, and it's
> > $seriously expensive$.
>
> Well, I am happy to be among real experts in this subject :-).
> Rest assured that I will be calling for your expertise in the months
> to come, should I be elected ;-).

Outside of my work and other NR commitments, you're certainly welcome to
do so. In fact, one of the things I've just set up for the Linux Gazette
is an on-the-fly format converter for those who want to get the issues
in PalmDoc format; something like this should work well for this
brochure, allowing us to have a single common format (say, PostScript)
and generating any other desired format as it's requested.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homo homini lupus.
Man is man's wolf.
-- Plautus, "Asinaria"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17045 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Personal Attacks
I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for all of two months. In that
two months I have seen more childish debates than I care to think
about. I try to avoid posting anything on the main list since I have
seen how brutal many of the citizens here can be. Unfortunately I
decided to offer forth my *opinion* on the lex dealing with minors.
I admit my choice of words was very poor and it was not my intent to
offend anyone. I was merely trying to bring to light all facets of
teenage life – including the often-fickle American teenager (who
sadly enough usually constitutes a good majority but by no means
represents all of them). Since it seemed that everyone was focusing
on only the exceptional teenagers, and not dealing with the reality
of the rest of them, I thought it was a good idea. As a Nova Roman I
was concerned about the future of NR – as an organization.

I am now being accused of hating all teenagers, ageism in general,
and subjected to name calling by people who know nothing of me nor I
them. Disagreeing with me is one thing but attacking me publicly and
privately is something totally different. The worst part of this
incident is that the one teenager I know of here (in NR) was NOT
offended by what I said and recognized the spirit of my *opinion*.
Just so you all understand opinions are not carved in stone and are
subject to change provided good evidence to the contrary. Instead of
rationally and calmly debating the issue, several people merely
attacked. Those who chose to debate it calmly did impact my
thinking – those who did not have made me question why I even decided
to become a citizen here. For those who have wondered why so few
participate, perhaps its because they have no desire to be personally
attacked by trying to present another side to an issue or for
offering their opinion.

For the record, I do NOT hate teenagers.

Agrippina Modia Aurelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17046 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Salvete Omnes,

Citizens! I whole heartedly endorse the candidacy of our hard-working
Curator Araneum, Titus Octavius Pius to become Curule Aedile for
MMDCCLVII A.V.C.

Valete,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I stand before you, for the third time robed in the toga candida,
this
> time to seek the office of Curule Aedile.
>
> Two years ago, you elected me to serve you in the position of
> Quaestor, displaying a faith in me I did my utmost to prove true.
> Serving under the senior Consul, I worked with collecting your
taxes for
> the first time ever, and tried to conduct this duty to the full
extent
> of my abilities.
>
> Last year, you again elected me, this time to act as your webmaster
in
> the office of Curator Araneum, a duty which I believe I have
performed
> to the best of my abilities.
>
> This year, I ask for your permission to assume the office of Curule
> Aedile, what would be my next step on the classical cursus honorum.
>
> As Curule Aedile, I plan to further the work done by this year's
Aediles
> ~ on the Magna Mater project, started by the Aediles of last year.
The
> work there is of utmost importance to Nova Roma's credibility to the
> academic community. I hope to be able to work with Marcus Iulius
> Perusianus on this project, as we are both very much interested in
it's
> success.
>
> Also, naturally, I will, together with my colleagues, offer you
panem et
> circensis, as is the duty of the Aediles to present to the people. I
> promise a close cooperation with the collegium ponteficium to make
the
> ludi a proper tribute to those our republic is dedicated to, to
those we
> owe any claim we have to glory, the gods of Roma, Nova et Antiqua.
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/w4mIAGtgaSonkUoRAi3YAJ4ko91+uk89fIqelTKuAyVhmnbmBACffxo4
> TT2dfO2C9FiJ0bL3LyI2yOs=
> =najf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17047 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Salve Gaius Geminus,

> I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy for Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy
entertainment and administrating games. I am a fair judge and <realize that games are meant to be
enjoyed.

I'm so sorry but the deadline to declare your candidacy for a Plebeian magistracy was Nov 24. See
below. I'm really sorry to turn away any candidate!

Vale,
Diana Moravia

From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@...>
Date: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:40 pm
Subject: Call for candidates

Ex-Officio Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia Aventina Quiritibus SPD

Salvete all,

Since the LEX MORAVIA DE SVFFRAGIIS has been enacted, I hereby postpone the contio and voting in the
Comitia Plebis Tributa until the auspices have been taken and found favourable (V.A. & B.)

It is my hope that we can hold the 3 comitia elections at the same time in order to make it easier
for the voters.

The deadline for declaring your candidacy for Tribunus Plebis or Plebeian Aedile is hereby extended
until Monday Nov 24 2003 23:59 PM Roman Time.
> I, Gauis Geminus Germanus, would like to announve my candiacy for Aedilis Plebis. I enjoy
entertainment and administrating games. I am a fair judge and realize that games are meant to be
enjoyed.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17048 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks
Salve Agrippina Modia, et salvete omnes,

agrippina_modia_aurelia wrote:

> I am now being accused of hating all teenagers, ageism in general,
> and subjected to name calling by people who know nothing of me nor I
> them.

Unless I missed something, all of that came from one person,
who is himself pretty new here and who seems to be making a
number of the mistakes that people new to net.based discourse
often make.

That said, I agree that it's an inaccurate, and no doubt
hurtful, accusation. I don't think you're any of those things.

> Those who chose to debate it calmly did impact my
> thinking – those who did not have made me question why I even decided
> to become a citizen here.

I hope you'll recognize that the vast majority would
rather you stay and contribute.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17049 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Fwd: [Nova-Roma] Latin forms of address (reprise)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17050 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Legio IX Hispana
Salvete,

I've rather lost track of where the research on the Legio IX Hispana has got
to but, if it's not already been mentioned, may I suggest the following site
which has quite a bit of information.

<A HREF="http://www.roman-britain.org/military/9hispana.htm">http://www.roman-britain.org/military/9hispana.htm</A>

Valete,

Placidia Prisca


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17051 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Salvete citizens,

Please not that the Nova Roma website is *not* correct regarding the candidates for Plebeian Aedile:

There are 3 candidates for Plebeian Aedile. They are:

M. Calidius Gracchus
Secundus Avisius Apollinarius
Emilia Curia

The deadline for declaring candidacy's in the Comitia Plebis Tributa was Nov 24 11:59 PM. As
unpleasant as this is, Gaius Geminius Germanus declared after the deadline and is not on the ballot.
This deadline was made because only when the list of candidates is complete can the auspices be
taken.

Sorry everyone!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17052 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:
| Yes, I observed it today! I hope the Curatores fix it. There is
| four candidates. The Tribunes have more information.

Salve, L. Armini Fauste.

'twould appear these candidates declared themselves on the plebeian
list, of which I am not a member, thus I had no idea there were any more
candidates. They've been added now, though. For those who'd like to
know, the new plebeian candidates are:

Tribunus Plebis - Lucius Sicinius Drusus
Aedilis Plebis - Marcus Callidius Gracchus
Aedilis Plebis - Secundus Avisius Apolliniarius

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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=nZjJ
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17053 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| Please not that the Nova Roma website is *not* correct
| regarding the candidates for Plebeian Aedile:

Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

Is, too!

Now, at least. :)

I removed Geminius from the files when I read your 21:07-message, but
the webpage didn't get updated until I added the new candidates just now.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17055 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................
Salvete omnes

I suspect there has been some confusion regarding my various posts, in that some were directed at the Hon. Drusus' Legal opinions, some regarding the Lex as I interpreted it with Lex in one hand and Constitution in the other, some for or against various individual remarks, many against Agrippina's reprehensible views (personal opinion), and yet more to reassure our Young Citizens.
Anyone who thinks these were all links in a single chain is mistaken. As I am behind in my e-mails, there is also the unfortunate side effect of a "time lag" occurring; if this has added to any confusion, I sincerely apologize.

Thank you, Cordus, for clarifying matters. It would have been much better for everyone had things been clear at the outset, and others not launched into sidebar debates which only served to confuse many Citizens, based on their Responses: Some apparently thought these sideline conversations related to the Lex as written, which of course is not the case.

Valete
Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 2:21 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Poll for of against Senator Drusus' Proposal..................

<html><body>


<tt>
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius<BR>
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry to write once again on this subject, but I'm<BR>
worried that some people may be confused about exactly<BR>
what's being voted for, and I'd like to try to make it<BR>
clearer.<BR>
<BR>
You say:<BR>
<BR>
>   I believe you are mistaken: I have read the Lex,<BR>
> and assure you that the Honourable LS Drusus has no<BR>
> desire to ban minors!<BR>
<BR>
Let's be clear.<BR>
<BR>
1. Senator Sicinius Drusus is *not* the author of this<BR>
lex.<BR>
<BR>
He opposes it (because he believes it increases the<BR>
danger of legal problems to Nova Roma and, to judge<BR>
from his most recent message on the subject, because<BR>
he dislikes the prose style).<BR>
<BR>
2. This lex does *not* seek to ban minors.<BR>
<BR>
It seeks to do precisely the opposite: to allow minors<BR>
who cannot currently become citizens to do so, and to<BR>
give them various rights.<BR>
<BR>
3. No one has at any time proposed to ban minors from<BR>
Nova Roma.<BR>
<BR>
This idea is the reddest of herrings (or should that<BR>
be 'herring'?). It is not going to happen. The lex<BR>
does not propose it, and it's opponents don't either.<BR>
<BR>
4. To decide whether to vote for this lex, you need to<BR>
ask yourself three questions:<BR>
<BR>
- Am I in favour of letting people who are under 18<BR>
who don't have a citizen for a parent join Nova Roma,<BR>
which they cannot currently do?<BR>
<BR>
If 'Yes', vote for the lex.<BR>
<BR>
- Am I in favour of giving citizens who are under 18<BR>
most of the rights of citizenship, which they<BR>
currently do not have?<BR>
<BR>
If 'Yes', vote for the lex.<BR>
<BR>
- Do I think this lex will make the danger of lawsuits<BR>
being filed against Nova Roma greater than it is now?<BR>
<BR>
If 'Yes', vote against the lex.<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!<BR>
Messenger <a href="http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk">http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17056 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Apology
Salve Agrippina Modia Aurelia

My sincerest Apologies for causing offense, doubly so since I have recently taken others to task for Ad Hominum attacks!
Mea Culpa!
Alas, it is a part of my Character to defend those who due to less experience are less able to defend themselves; it is a Flash Point for me, whether it is any of my business or not - it has gotten me into trouble before, and no doubt will again!
Thank you for clarifying your position; I understand both it and you much better now, and appreciate your concern for the well-being of NR. I too want what's best for the organization, while at the same time want to defend the rights of Minors; sometimes this results in very odd debates with myself, which sometimes leads to unfortunate outcomes!
Please accept my Apology. We are all Human, with the failings that come with that simple fact.

Vale bene
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: agrippina_modia_aurelia <whiterose13.geo@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 3:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Personal Attacks

<html><body>


<tt>
I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for all of two months.  In that <BR>
two months I have seen more childish debates than I care to think <BR>
about.  I try to avoid posting anything on the main list since I have <BR>
seen how brutal many of the citizens here can be.  Unfortunately I <BR>
decided to offer forth my *opinion* on the lex dealing with minors.  <BR>
I admit my choice of words was very poor and it was not my intent to <BR>
offend anyone.  I was merely trying to bring to light all facets of <BR>
teenage life – including the often-fickle American teenager (who <BR>
sadly enough usually constitutes a good majority but by no means <BR>
represents all of them).  Since it seemed that everyone was focusing <BR>
on only the exceptional teenagers, and not dealing with the reality <BR>
of the rest of them, I thought it was a good idea.  As a Nova Roman I <BR>
was concerned about the future of NR – as an organization.  <BR>
<BR>
I am now being accused of hating all teenagers, ageism in general, <BR>
and subjected to name calling by people who know nothing of me nor I <BR>
them.  Disagreeing with me is one thing but attacking me publicly and <BR>
privately is something totally different.  The worst part of this <BR>
incident is that the one teenager I know of here (in NR) was NOT <BR>
offended by what I said and recognized the spirit of my *opinion*.  <BR>
Just so you all understand opinions are not carved in stone and are <BR>
subject to change provided good evidence to the contrary.  Instead of <BR>
rationally and calmly debating the issue, several people merely <BR>
attacked.  Those who chose to debate it calmly did impact my <BR>
thinking – those who did not have made me question why I even decided <BR>
to become a citizen here.  For those who have wondered why so few <BR>
participate, perhaps its because they have no desire to be personally <BR>
attacked by trying to present another side to an issue or for <BR>
offering their opinion.  <BR>
<BR>
For the record, I do NOT hate teenagers.<BR>
<BR>
Agrippina Modia Aurelia<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17057 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Salve Diana

On an unrelated matter I asked the Junior Consul the other day when the deadline was for filling and he said the 30th of November???

What gives???

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Kristoffer From
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| Please not that the Nova Roma website is *not* correct
| regarding the candidates for Plebeian Aedile:

Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

Is, too!

Now, at least. :)

I removed Geminius from the files when I read your 21:07-message, but
the webpage didn't get updated until I added the new candidates just now.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17058 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 14:05, Kristoffer From wrote:

> But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An established
> standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which can
> easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also, nothing beats
> gzip:ed latex for size. :)
>
> (Well, 'cept for bzip:ed or ppm:ed, but what the heck...gzip works.)

Salvete,

I suppose I'll have to load LaTeX onto SuSe and start learning it. Is
there a Windows version for people to use? Nothing beats open source:

dixitque Deus fiat Unix et facta est linux
et vidit Deus linuxem quod esset bonum et divisit linuxem ac
Fenestras....

valete
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17059 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar

What is the Cursus Honorum?

The Honorable Way?

My impression from what I have read was that it was a testing ground for those who aspired to one day serve the Republic as Consul. The Roman magistrates who has served in lower magistrates and then works up to the senior magistrates would be shown to be competent and honorable in various administrative and managerial tasks. In the lowest magistrate, the Quaestorship you learn to handle other peoples money in a prudent fashion and to summit your needs to the senior magistrate you serve as Quaestor. As you serve and are elected to the different magistrates you learn to be a generalist and not a specialist. It gives you time to prove yourself, competent, honorable, capable, dependable , studious and willing to serve with little expectation of great rewards. In fact the magistrates of the ancient republic cost you a great deal of money.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulus
Candidate for Tribune


----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] what is cursus honorum?


Salvete Omnes,
I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is for
you all the Cursus Honorum?
I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?

Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of cursus.
Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this
questions.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
Candidate as Tribune



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17060 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Apology
Salve Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus!

> My sincerest Apologies for causing offense, doubly so since I
have recently taken others to task for Ad Hominum attacks!

I wholeheartedly accept your apology! I have made many such mistakes
in my past as well (though not with NR, at least I don't think so).

> Alas, it is a part of my Character to defend those who due to
less experience are less able to defend themselves; it is a Flash
Point for me, whether it is any of my business or not - it has gotten
me into trouble before, and no doubt will again!

I understand. I have 'flash points' too. They do seem apt at
causing trouble, don't they? :)

> Thank you for clarifying your position; I understand both it and
you much better now, and appreciate your concern for the well-being
of NR. I too want what's best for the organization, while at the
same time want to defend the rights of Minors; sometimes this results
in very odd debates with myself, which sometimes leads to unfortunate
outcomes!

The issue is one of those that may not have an answer we are all
happy with. I had many teenagers come to my little pagan shop, many
of them were wonderful, knowledgable, and would have been excellent
participants in various projects - unfortunately it only takes one
over-protective parent to ruin it for everyone.

I'm glad to know others have debates with themselves ;) BTW, no one
can every claim that you are not enthusiastic! Good or bad, you
enthusiastically persue your beliefs and ideals. The world would
certainly be more interesting if more people did.

> Please accept my Apology. We are all Human, with the failings
that come with that simple fact.

I do accept it. Yes, we humans have a lot of failings. I, for one,
am terribly inarticulate which caused this in the first place. So I
apologize for my failings as well :-)

Vale bene,

Agrippina Modia Aurelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17061 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Salve

Ditto


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum 2756
----- Original Message -----
From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile


Salvete Omnes,

Citizens! I whole heartedly endorse the candidacy of our hard-working
Curator Araneum, Titus Octavius Pius to become Curule Aedile for
MMDCCLVII A.V.C.

Valete,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I stand before you, for the third time robed in the toga candida,
this
> time to seek the office of Curule Aedile.
>
> Two years ago, you elected me to serve you in the position of
> Quaestor, displaying a faith in me I did my utmost to prove true.
> Serving under the senior Consul, I worked with collecting your
taxes for
> the first time ever, and tried to conduct this duty to the full
extent
> of my abilities.
>
> Last year, you again elected me, this time to act as your webmaster
in
> the office of Curator Araneum, a duty which I believe I have
performed
> to the best of my abilities.
>
> This year, I ask for your permission to assume the office of Curule
> Aedile, what would be my next step on the classical cursus honorum.
>
> As Curule Aedile, I plan to further the work done by this year's
Aediles
> ~ on the Magna Mater project, started by the Aediles of last year.
The
> work there is of utmost importance to Nova Roma's credibility to the
> academic community. I hope to be able to work with Marcus Iulius
> Perusianus on this project, as we are both very much interested in
it's
> success.
>
> Also, naturally, I will, together with my colleagues, offer you
panem et
> circensis, as is the duty of the Aediles to present to the people. I
> promise a close cooperation with the collegium ponteficium to make
the
> ludi a proper tribute to those our republic is dedicated to, to
those we
> owe any claim we have to glory, the gods of Roma, Nova et Antiqua.
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/w4mIAGtgaSonkUoRAi3YAJ4ko91+uk89fIqelTKuAyVhmnbmBACffxo4
> TT2dfO2C9FiJ0bL3LyI2yOs=
> =najf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17062 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
Salve Tiberius,

> On an unrelated matter I asked the Junior Consul the other day when the deadline was for filling
and he said the 30th of November???

That's true-- but he is the presiding magistrate of the Comitia Centuriata and the Comitia Populi
Tributa elections and has announced his deadline of Nov 30. I am the presiding magistrate of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa -- which elects the Plebeian Aediles and the Tribunes-- and announced a
deadline of Nov 24. .

So the dates don't have to be the same. Even the voting dates don't have to be the same, but we've
been trying offlist (and I think that we've succeeded) to get that organized!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Candidate for Consul 2757
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17063 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: error on NR website-- Candidates for Plebeian Aedile
> Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.
>
> Is, too!
>
> Now, at least. :)
Salve Titus Octavius,

Thanks for your super fast attention to this matter! I think that you changed it within 5 minutes of
my email.

Good luck in your bid for Curule Aedile. To me, you and Scaurus would make a great team!
vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17064 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:
| You may count on my endorsement, and on my vote.

Livia Cornelia Hibernia wrote:
| I whole heartedly endorse the candidacy of our
| hard-working Curator Araneum, Titus Octavius Pius
| to become Curule Aedile for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:
| Ditto

Salvete,

I thank you humbly, for your support and kind words. They are very much
appreciated. Good luck to the three of you in your own candidacies as
Consul, Quaestor and Tribunus Plebis, respectively.

Has anyone else noted an abundance of fine candidates this year?

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17065 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
True! It's all done for "Love of the Community" - just like here in NR !

~ S E M T
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 4:22 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] what is cursus honorum?

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
<BR>
What is the Cursus Honorum?  <BR>
<BR>
The Honorable Way?<BR>
<BR>
My impression from what I have read was that it was a testing ground for those who aspired to one day serve the Republic as Consul.  The Roman magistrates who has served in lower magistrates and then works up to the senior magistrates would be shown to be competent and honorable in various administrative and managerial tasks. In the lowest magistrate, the Quaestorship you learn to handle other peoples money in a prudent fashion and to summit your needs to the senior magistrate you serve as Quaestor. As you serve and are elected to the different magistrates you learn to be a generalist and not a specialist.  It gives you time to prove yourself, competent, honorable, capable,  dependable , studious and  willing to serve with little expectation of great rewards. In fact the magistrates of the ancient republic cost you a great deal  of money.<BR>
<BR>
Vale<BR>
<BR>
Tiberius Galerius Paulus <BR>
Candidate for Tribune <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
  From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <BR>
  To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <BR>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:44 AM<BR>
  Subject: [Nova-Roma] what is cursus honorum?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  Salvete Omnes,<BR>
  I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is for <BR>
  you all the Cursus Honorum?<BR>
  I would like to know what it means and why we use it?<BR>
  I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original <BR>
  ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?<BR>
<BR>
  Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of cursus.<BR>
  Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this <BR>
  questions.<BR>
<BR>
  Valete<BR>
  Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
  Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae<BR>
  Candidate as Tribune<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
  Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
<BR>
   <BR>
<BR>
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17066 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Yes indeed! Nova Roma's going to be the big Winner this year!

~ Servius
-----Original Message-----
From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 5:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile

<html><body>


<tt>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
Hash: SHA1<BR>
<BR>
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:<BR>
| You may count on my endorsement, and on my vote.<BR>
<BR>
Livia Cornelia Hibernia wrote:<BR>
| I whole heartedly endorse the candidacy of our<BR>
| hard-working Curator Araneum, Titus Octavius Pius<BR>
| to become Curule Aedile for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.<BR>
<BR>
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:<BR>
| Ditto<BR>
<BR>
Salvete,<BR>
<BR>
I thank you humbly, for your support and kind words. They are very much<BR>
appreciated. Good luck to the three of you in your own candidacies as<BR>
Consul, Quaestor and Tribunus Plebis, respectively.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone else noted an abundance of fine candidates this year?<BR>
<BR>
Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17067 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 17:33, Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:

> I included .pdf precisely because I knew that there would be some
> Linux Enthusiast that would hold a grudge against me if I didn't :-).

Salvete,

are we really that easy to catch?
We wouldn't hold a grudge against anyone for using Windows. A sharpened
gladius, perhaps, but not a grudge :-)
valete
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17068 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve,
Please, don't leave out us wonderful Mac OSX users! Although I am
thinking about putting Yellow Dog Linux for PPC on my iBook soon.


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

--
AIM: KSDeist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17069 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Campaign website
Salvete quirites,

The beautiful and talented Julilla Sempronia Magna has graciously
created a website featuring my campaign platform, endorsements of
others I hope you'll vote for, and record of service to Nova Roma.

Drop by and have a look. She does really nice work.

(link below)

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17070 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
G. Iulius Scaurus T. Octavio Pio salutem dicit.

Salve, T. Octavi.

I welcome your candidacy for Aedilis Curulis. After all, what
dignitas is there in coming in at the top of a list of one? Not that
I take it for granted, but if we did not aspire, we would not be
Romans :-).

Your work as Curator Araneum speaks for itself in bringing great
honour to you.

You will have my vote. I cannot think of a more worthy potential
colleague.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Candidate for Aedilis Curulis.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17071 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks
Salve, Agrippina Modia Aurelia -

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 08:48:31PM -0000, agrippina_modia_aurelia wrote:
> Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus!
>
> > Unless I missed something, all of that came from one person,
> > who is himself pretty new here and who seems to be making a
> > number of the mistakes that people new to net.based discourse
> > often make.
>
> I didn't realize he was new as well. Thank you for pointing that
> out, it does make me feel a little better. I'll have to check to be
> sure but it may have been him who emailed be privated as well. I
> just didn't want to single him out and cause more problems for myself.
>
> > That said, I agree that it's an inaccurate, and no doubt
> > hurtful, accusation. I don't think you're any of those things.
>
> Thank you. I don't think I am either - at least not most of the
> time ;)

In my opinion - and since you and I were the ones involved in the
original discussion, I feel that I have a good right to hold one - the
accusations were inaccurate as well. I found you to be an intelligent
and interesting conversational partner, one who was willing to think
about the points presented by the person arguing the opposite viewpoint;
there's little more that a reasonable person could ask for.

> > I hope you'll recognize that the vast majority would
> > rather you stay and contribute.
>
> Again, thank you! I read the post from my Paterfamilias and now with
> this I do see that there are reasons to stay. I have a great love
> for Rome so it would be hard to walk away anyhow.

I'm glad to hear that. All of us make mistakes, and the poster making
the accusations just got a bit over-excited on the issue. NR politics
make heady wine at times. :) In any case, letting one person's actions
be a deciding factor in this would be unfortunate; there are many fine
people in Nova Roma, and much good worth staying for.


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17072 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Concrete Proposals from G. Iuslius Scaurus: Commercial Administrati
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

I would like to discuss with you the commercial responsibilities of
the Aedles Curules.

The Aediles Curules have a constitutional responsibility to ensure
that fair business practices prevail in the Macellum and the Ordo
Equester.

I shall follow the historical example of Roman law: if anyone shall
have a complaint, let it be brought openly to the Aediles Curules.

If the matter involves a violation of Nova Roman law, the complaint
will be referred to the praetores.

If the matter contains no violation of law, the Aediles Curules will
exercise their imperium to resolve the dispute. Historically, such
resolutions often took the form of binding arbitration. I have
drafted an edictum which I shall issue, if elected, which combines
features of Roman law and recommendations of the International
Arbitration Association to provide a fair and equitable means for
resolving commercial disputes. Since the text is long, you will find
it below.

I shall work to attract more merchants to participate in the Macellum,
offering our citizens a wider variety of goods and increasing the
republic's revenues.

I welcome any question from any citizens either directly to the main
list or privately to gfr@....

May the Di Immortales rightly quide us in all things.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Candidate for Aedilis Curulis

TEXT OF PROPOSED EDICTUM DE INTERDICTO RESTITUTORIO PER FORMULAM
ARBITRARIAM

I. Arbitration for Commercial Disputes

A. Aedilician Jurisdiction
1. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.e, endows the
Aediles Cururles with the power and obligation "to maintain the venues
where the Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma
property," the Aediles Curules assume jurisdiction over commercial
disputes arising from transactions between Nova Roman citizens and
peregrines on Nova Roman property, at Nova Roman events, or through
the Macellum;
2. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.b, endows the
Aediles Curules with the power and obligation "to administer the law,"
the jurisdiction of the Aediles Curules over commercial disputes as
specified in I.A.1 of this edictum shall include the establishment of
tribunals to arbitrate such disputes and the issuance of interdicta
restitutoria per formulam arbitrariam to resolve them.
3. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.a, empowers and
obliges the Aediles Curules "to hold imperium," the procedures of
arbitration specified in this edictum shall have the force of law and
default or defiance thereof shall constitute obstruction of justice.

B. Requirement of Arbitration Agreement.
1. The actor of an arbitration must execute an agreement to accept
binding arbitration and submit it at the time of the request for
arbitration.
2. The reus of an arbitration must execute an agreement to accept
binding arbitration and submit it at the time of the reply to the
request for arbitration.
3. The text of the agreement to accept binding arbitration is found
in Appendix I of this edictum.

C. Definition of Terms
1. Arbitration. Arbitration is a form of interdictum restitutorium
per formulam arbitrariam. It consists of a binding agreement between
parties to place their commercial dispute before an Aedilis Curulis
for resolution by a tribunal of arbitri appointed by the presiding
Aedilis Curulis and to abide by that resolution permanently and
entirely.
a. Arbitration is a form of interdictum restitutorium because its
determination forbids the illicit transfer of possession of something
of value from one party to another, voiding the commercial
transaction, and restoring the status quo ante the dispute,
compensating by award such parties as may have been injured by the
status quo post.
b. Arbitration is per formulam arbitrariam since it entails
determination by a tribunal of arbitri rather than a quaestio of
iudices, requires no sponsio, and its determination does not result in
criminal sanction.
2. Criminal sanction may arise from default or obstruction of
justice in the arbitration process.
3. Presiding Aedilis Curulis. The presiding Aedilis Curulis is the
Aedilis Curulis to whom the instant request for arbitration has been
presented; the presiding Aedilis Curulis must cede the right to
preside to his Aedilician colleague in the event of a demonstrated
conflict of interest involving himself and the parties when either
Aedilis Curulis judges that such a conflict exists.
4. Party
a. A party is a person or group of persons who have a dispute with
another person or persons over a single commercial transaction.
(i.) A single commercial transaction may involve multiple objects
or purchases possession of which is taken at the same time.
b. Only citizens of Nova Roma, members of the Ordo Equester,
vendors on Nova Roman property, at Nova Roman events, or through the
Macellum, and peregrines who have executed an agreement to binding
abritration (Appendix I of this edictum) may be a party to a request
for arbitration or reply to a request for arbitration.
(i.) An actor may refuse to execute an greement to binding
arbitration, but in such cases the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall
refuse the request for arbitration with prejudice.
(ii.) A member of the Ordo Equester may refuse to execute an
agreement to binding arbitration. However, on such refusal the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall notify the Censores and request entry
of a nota indicating the refusal. Such a refusal shall result in
termination of the arbitration process.
(iii.) A vendor on the Macellum may refuse to execute an
agreement to binding arbitration, but the presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall require the Curator Araneum to post a report of the refusal in
connection with the vendor's advertisement in the Macellum
permanently. Such a refusal shall result in termination of the
arbitration process.
(iv.) A vendor on Nova Roman property or at Nova Roman events may
refuse to execute an agreement to binding arbitration and shall be
refused permission to vend at the above specified venues. Such a
refusal shall result in termination of the arbitration process.
(v.) Execution of an agreement to binding arbitration does not
preclude pursuit of praetorian and/or macronational remedies for
offences specified in I.E of this edictum.
c. The party who submits the request for arbitration is the actor;
d. The party against whom the claim is lodged in the request for
arbitration is the reus.
5. Arbiter. An arbiter is a fair and impartial determiner of fact,
appointed by the presiding Aedilis in accordance with III.A and B and
IV.A of this edictum. No person shall be an arbiter who is not
assiduus at the time of appointment and through the final
determination of the arbitration.
6. Tribunal. A Tribunal is a panel of three arbitri who shall hear
evidence and make a final determination of the arbitration by majority
vote.
7. Pignus.
a. The pignus is a surety provided by each party. The pignus may
consist of the disputed property or a sum of money equal to the value
of the requested award.
b. The award shall be paid from the pignus.
c. In extraordinary circumstances in the interest of justice and
with the concurrence of both the presiding Aedilis Curulis and his
aedilician colleague, the requirement of a pignus may be waived by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis.
d. The pignus of each party shall be safeguarded by the quaestor
of the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
e. In the event of termination of the arbitration by the presiding
Aedilis Curulis for any reason except default, pignus of each party
shall be returned to each party.
f. In the event of default the pignus of the defaulting party
shall be given to the non-defaulting party and the non-defaulting
party's pignus returned.

D. Confidentiality.
1. All arbitrations, excepting the deliberation of the arbitri,
shall be a matter of public record.
2. Parties to the arbitration and their witnesses, and the arbitri
must waive their right to confidentiality under the Leges Cornelia et
Vedia de Privatus Rebus.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall ensure that a permanent
record is kept of all official correspondence pertaining to
arbitrations and that a record of hearing and determination is
prepared and issued at his direction.

E. Default Praetorian and Macronational Jurisdiction. Any request
for arbitration which alleges a Nova Roman or macronational criminal
offence shall be rejected by the presiding Aedilis Curulis and
referred by default to praetorian jurisdiction and macronational
authorities for appropriate action. The presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall also inform the Consules of such referral in timely fashion and,
through them, the Senate.

II. Communications, Time Periods, Prohibited Dates, and Place of
Arbitration

A. Methods of communication. Surface mail, mail, telefax, and
telephonic conference are permitted methods of communication except as
indicated below. Hearings shall be conducted by email, telephonic
conference, or physical meeting. The means of communication not
specified below for procedures shall be determined from the above list
by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.

B. Time period. A nundinum shall be reckoned as a period of eight
days inclusive.

C. Prohibited Dates. No business pertaining to arbitration shall be
conducted on a dies nefastus. If business pertaining to arbitration
is accidentally conducted on a dies nefastus, the business must be
conducted anew and an expiation performed as recommended by the
Collegium Pontificum.

D. Place of Arbitration. The electronic or physical venue of
dearing and deliberation shall be determined by the presiding Aedilis
Curulis after consultation with the parties and their advocati.

III. Procedures for Filing for Arbitration

A. Request for Arbitration
1. Any party, as defined in I.C.4 above, to a commercial
transaction may file a request for arbitration by written
communication to the presiding Aedilis Curulis. The requesting party
shall be termed the actor. Such a request must contain the following
information:
a. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of all
parties and witnesses;
b. Designation of the actor's advocatus, if any;
c. A brief description of nature and circumstances of the
dispute and the actor's claim;
d. A brief statement of relief sought and amount, if any,
claimed;
e. A signed agreement to accept binding arbitration; the
signed agreement must be sent by post to tthe presiding Aedilis
Curulis (the form of the agreement must be that found in Appendix I of
this edictum);
f. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of two
arbitri proposed by the actor.
g. A check or international money order in the amount of
the pignus, if required; the financial instrument for the pignus must
be sent by post to tthe presiding Aedilis Curulis;
h. The oath of the actor in Appendix II of this edictum.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall acknowledge in writing
receipt of
the request for arbitration from the actor;
3. The aedilis shall forward a full copy of the request for
arbirtration to the reus within one nundinum of original receipt of
the request.
4. If any of the material required in III.A.1 is absent from the
request for arbitration, the request shall be dismissed without
prejudice. Five copies of all the material required in III.A.1 shall
be submitted at the time of request.
5. The presiding Aedilis Curulis may refuse to accept a request for
arbitration on grounds of jurisdictional incompetence, defect of law,
or inconsistency with reason. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall
inform the actor of the refusal and its grounds within one nundinum of
receipt of the request for arbitration.

B. Reply of Reus to the Request for Arbitration.
1. The reus shall have two nundina from the date of transmission or
postmark of the forwarded original request for arbitration to reply to
that request. The reply to request must be by written communication
to the presiding Aedilis Curulisand include:
a. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of all
parties and witnesses;
b. Designation of the reus' advocatus, if any;
c. A brief description of nature and circumstances of the
dispute and reply to the actor's claim;
d. A signed agreement to accept binding arbitration; the
signed agreement must be sent by post to the Curulis Aedilis (the
form of the agreement must be that found in Appendix I of this edictum);
e. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of two
arbitri proposed by the reus;
f. A check or international money order in the amount of
the pignus, if required; the financial instrument for the pignus must
be sent by post to the presiding Aedilis Curulis;
g. The oath of the reus in Appendix II of this edictum.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall acknowledge in writing
receipt of the reply to request for arbitration from the reus.
3. The aedilis shall forward a full copy of the reply to request
for arbitration to the actor within one nundinum of receipt of the
reply to the request.
4. A continuance of no more than two nundina may be granted by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis for compliance with III.B.1;
5. If the reus declines to participate in arbitration, the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall deny the request for arbitration.
6. If the reus accepts arbitration and if any of the material
required in III.B.1. is absent from the reply to the request, the reus
shall be held to be in default. Five copies of all the material
required in III.A.1 shall be submitted at the time of request.

C. Upon receipt of the reply to request for arbitration the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall initiate the procedures of arbitration
within two nundina and notify the parties thereof.

IV. Procedures of Arbitration

A. Appointment of arbitri and Default Appointment
1. Upon notification that arbitration has been initiated by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis, the actor may preemptorily challenge one of
the reus' arbitri; notice of challenge shall be communicated to the
presiding Aedilis Curulis.
2. Upon notification that arbitration has been inititated by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis, the reus may preemptorily challenge one of
the actors' arbitri; notice of challenge shall be communicated to the
presiding Aedilis Curulis.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint the unchallenged
arbitri of the actor and reus arbitri on a tribunal to hear,
deliberate, and determination the outcome of the arbitration. If no
arbiter is challenged, the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall select one
from each submitted panel.
4. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint an impartial and
independent third arbitrator of his selection to service as arbiter on
a tribunal to hear, deliberate, and determination the outcome of the
arbitration.
5. In the event that a arbiter duly appointed for the actor or reus
shall be unable to perform his duties before commencement of the
hearing, tthe presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint an impartial and
independent replacement of his selection.
6. If the actor and/or reus shall refuse to accept any appointment
of arbiter to the tribunal, the refusing party/parties shall be held
in default.
7. If, the hearing having commenced, a arbiter is unable to to
perform his duties, the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall act as arbiter
in his place. If more than one arbiter is unable to perform his
duties under these circumstances, the trib unal shall be dissolved and
a new tribunal selected in accordance with III.A.1.f, III.B.1.f, and
IV.A. of this edictum.
8. No citizen shall be compelled to serve as an arbiter, but,
having accepted the office, no arbiter shall withdraw except for
corruption, conflict of interest, grave illness, or other serious
reason sufficient to the presiding Aedilis Curulis.

B. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall preside over the tribunal and
rule upon points of order and law. The decisions of the presiding
Aedilis Curulis shall be binding on the arbitri, the parties, their
advocati, and witnesses.
1. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall prepare a formula on the
basis of the request for arbitration and the reply to the request for
arbitration.
2. This formula shall take the form: "N, NN, and NNN shall be the
arbitri. If it appears that the claim of the actor, Titius, to wit
[statement of claim of the actor] should prevail in the matter in
dispute, the arbitri shall require that the reus, Seius, provide the
award, to wit [statement of the award] to the actor; otherwise the
arbitri shall absolve the reus."
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall inform the parties and
arbitri of the formula at the time specified in III.C of this edictum.
4. When the cause of justice shall require, the presiding Aedilis
Curulis may amend the formula at any point prior to conclusion of the
hearing. The parties and arbitri shall be notified immedidately of
any amendments to the formula.
5. No award in formula shall require a reus to perform a
dishonourable, criminal, or otherwise infamous act.

C. Oaths
1. Of arbitri. Each arbiter appointed to the tribunal shall take
the oath specified in Appendix II of this edictum before undertaking
his duties;
2. Of Parties. Each party shall take the oath specified in
Appendix II of this edictum in the request for arbitration or reply to
the request for arbitration.
3. Of Witnesses. Each witness shall take the oath specified in
Appendix II of this edictum before giving evidence.

D. General Powers of the Tribunal
1. The Tribunal shall serve as the court of hearing, deliberation,
and determination of the binding arbitration;
2. Arbitri may query witnesses and examine documents through the
presiding Aedilis Curulis;
3. Arbitri may request the presiding Aedilis Curulis to compel
witnesses to testify under penalty of fine for refusal; no reus shall
be compelled to testify against himself;
4. Arbitri may not deviate from the formula provided by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis;
5. If an arbiter is found to have been corrupted at any stage of
the arbitration, that arbiter shall be dismissed and the arbitration
dismissed;
a. With the agreement of the parties, a new tribunal shall be
empaneled in accordance with I.A.1.f, I.B.1.e, and III.A of this
edictum; uncorrupted arbitri of the previous tribunal may be empaneled
in its successor;
b. The corrupted arbiter shall be prosecuted for perjury and
obstruction of justice.

E. Language of Arbitration
1. The official language of arbitration shall be English;
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall arrange with the Decuria
Interpres for translation into other languages as needed, but no more
than one continuance shall be granted to facilitate procurement of
translation.

F. Advocati
1. Any party to the arbitration may be represented by an advocatus
of his choosing; neither actor nor reus shall be required to be
represented by an advocatus.
2. No advocatus shall be compensated for his services.

G. Hearing
1. The place, date, time of the hearing shall be determined by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis after consultation with the parties and
their advocati. The parties are responsible for ensuring the presence
of witnesses and documentary evidence.
2. The following procedures shall be followed at hearings:
a. The actor and/or his advocatus shall state the claim, the
evidence to be submitted for that claim, and the relief and/or amount
requested;
b. The reus and/or his advocatus shall state the denial of the
claim and the evidence to be submitted for that denial;
c. The actor and/or his adovcatus shall present the evidence for
the claim and relief in the form of witnesses for examination and
cross-examination by the reus and/or his advocatus, the presiding
Aedilis Curulis, or the arbitri, and/or documents certified to the
tribunal by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
d. The reus and/or his adovcatus shall present the evidence against
the claim and relief in the form of witnesses for examination and
cross-examination by the actor and/or his advocatus, the presiding
Aedilis Curulis, or the arbitri, and/or documents certified to the
tribunal by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
3. Ex parte Communications. No party or witness shall communicate,
except with the permission of the presiding Aedilis Curulis, with any
other party or witness regarding the dispute from the opening of the
hearing until the final determination has been made.
4. Continuance. The presiding Aedilis Curulis may adjourn and
continue a hearing for a period up to a nundinum at the request of a
party or at his discretion
5. Waiver and Stipulation. Parties shall have the right to waive
their portion of the procedures of sections VI.G2 of this edictum.
Parties may stipulate by agreement to facts.
6. Termination by Settlement. If, prior to final determination and
with the consent of the presiding Aedilis Curulis, the parties agree
to settle their dispute outside the arbitration, the tribunal shall be
dismissed and the aribtration terminated. No dispute terminated by
settlement may be resubmitted for arbitration.

H. Deliberation and Determination

1. Upon completion of the hearing, the tribunal shall retire to
deliberate privately. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall accompany
them to rule on points of law and chair their deliberation. Unless
also a arbiter under IV.A.5 of this edictum, the presiding Aedilis
Curulis shall not vote on the final determination of the arbitration.
2. Determination of the arbitration shall be a vote to accept or
reject (1) the actor's claim and (2) the actor's award in the formula
presented by the presiding Aedilis Curulis. Determination of the
arbitration shall be on preponderance of the evidence by a majority
vote of the arbitri. Abstentions shall be counted as votes against
the claim or award of the actor.
a. If the actor's claim is accepted, the award specified in the
formula must be made in accordance with the formula.
3. The tribunal is not obligated to give an award, even if a
determination has been made, unless otherwise specified in the formula
of the Aedilis Curulis.
3. The determination shall be given to the presiding Aedilis
Curulis for notification of the parties.

I. Award. The amount of award shall be determined by the tribunal
in accordance with the presiding Aedilis Curulis' formula, but shall
not exceed the amount claimed for relief in the request for
arbitration. The award shall be paid from the pignus of the reus and
the pignus of the actor returned. In the event that the pignus of the
reus has been waived by the Aediles Curules, the reus shall have one
nundinum to surrender the appropriate pignus to the Quaestor of the
presiding Aedilis Curulis. A reus who refuses to surrender the pignus
within this time limit shall be subject to prosecution before the
Praetor for fraud and obstruction of justice.

J. Costs and Fines
1. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall recover from the parties
such receipted costs for communications, copying, exhibits, and the
like as are reasonable.
a. In the event that a party shall dispute the recovery, the
matter shall be referred to the presiding Aedilis Curulis' aedlician
colleague for decision; his decision shall be final.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall be empowered to fine any
party or advocatus who violates the procedures of the arbitration.
The fine shall not exceed twenty-five U.S. dollars ($25.00) per violation.
a. In the event that a party or advocatus shall dispute the fine,
the matter shall be referrerd to the presiding Aedilis Curulis'
aedlician colleague for decision; his decision shall be final.
b. Fines must be paid within two nundina of their imposition.
Failure to pay a fine will result in prosecution before the Praetor
for obstruction of justice.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall be empowered to fine any
defaulting party up to the amount of the pignus, as well as awardinjg
the pignus to the non-defaulting party.
a. In the event that a party dispute the fine, the matter shall be
referrerd to the presiding Aedilis Curulis' aedlician colleague for
decision; his decision shall be final.
b. Fines must be paid within two nundina of their imposition.
Failure to pay a fine will result in prosecution before the Praetor
for obstruction of justice.

K. Exclusion of Liability. The parties shall exclude Nova Roma, the
presiding Aedilis Curulis, and arbitri from any legal liability
arising from the arbitration.

L. Waiver of Defamation. The parties shall agree to waive any
action for defamation arising from sworn testimony or admitted written
evidence in the hearing.

M. Default. A party shall be held in default if that party fails to
follow the procedures directed in this edictum, to provide requested
documents or testimony, or acts to disrupt or evade the agreed upon
arbitration. In the event that a party shall default, the presiding
Aedilis Curulis shall determine that the non-defaulting party has
prevailed and shall award reflief in accordance with IV.I of this
edictum. A defaulting party may be fined by the presiding Aedilis
Curulis.

N. Appeals
1. To Consular or Praetorian Jurisdiction. As a condition of
arbitration, the parties shall agree not to attempt to invoke consular
or praetorian jurisdiction over the arbitration.
2. To Comitia Centuriata. Appeal of a binding arbitration may be
made by either party only to the Comitia Centuriata and only on
grounds of a serious procedural error in the arbitration. The Comitia
Centuriata shall conduct trial as an appellate court in case of such
an appeal.

O. Intercessio
1. Tribunician or superior curule intercessio may be applied to any
procedure in abritration in accordance with the Constitution of Nova
Roma. Such an intercessio shall terminate the aribtration without
prejudice.
2. As a condition of arbitration, the parties shall agree not to
seek tribunician or superior curule intercessio over the arbitration.

APPENDIX I

The following text is the agreement to accept binding arbitration
which must be executed by actor and reus in accordance with I.B of
this edictum:

AGREEMENT TO ACCEPT BINDING ARBITRATION

The undersigned party at interest in the matter of
______________________________________________ agrees to submit the
dispute now pending with ________________________________________ to
binding arbitration under the Aedilician Edictum on Binding
Arbitration of Commercial Disputes of Nova Roma.

The party agrees that a tribunal of arbiters appointed by a Aedilis
Curulis of Nova Roma will serve as arbitrators and decide the matter.

The party agrees that the Aedilician Edictum on Binding Arbitration of
Commercial Disputes of Nova Roma shall govern all rules of all
proceedings related to this aribtration.

The party agrees that the tribunal's award is binding in all respects
upon all parties and may be entered as a final judgment in any court
of competent jurisdiction.

The party agrees that the tribunal shall hear and determine the
controversy on the evidence submitted. The presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall have ultimate responsibility to determine the relevancy and
admissibility of all evidence and to submit the formula. The party
agrees that the hearing and all other procedures will be conducted in
accordance with the Aedilician Edictum on Binding Arbitration of
Commercial Disputes of Nova Roma. Any party who proceeds through the
arbitration after knowledge that any provision or requirement of this
edictum has not been complied with or fails to object in writing,
shall be deemed to have waived the objection. The undersigned party
agrees that should any party violate this agreement, that party shall
indemnify Nova Roma and the non-violating party for any and all
resulting costs.

This agreement for binding arbitration may be executed in several
counterparts, each of which shall be deemed an original, but all of
which shall be considered one and the same valid and enforceable
agreement.

Actor/Reus:_______________________________________________

Witness:_______________________________________________

Date:_______________________________________________

Presiding Aedilis Curulis:_________________________________________

Date:_______________________________________________


APPENDIX II

The following text is the oath which each arbiter shall take before
undertaking his duties:

I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear to accept the
office of arbiter and perform the duties of that office fairly and
impartially and to accept neither favour nor compensation for my
determination of this arbitration. On my honour as a citizen and in
the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by
their will and favour I undertake this oath.

The following text is the oath which a citizen actor shall take in the
request for arbitration:

I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I
have made in my request for arbitration is true to the best of my
knowledge and that I have made a good-faith effort to resolve the
matter in dispute before requesting arbitration. On my honour as a
citizen and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
people and by their will and favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens
of religions other than the Religio Romana may specify the
deity/deities in whose presence the oath is undertaken].

The following text is the oath which a peregrine actor shall take in
the request for arbitration:

I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I have made
in my request for arbitration is true to the best of my knowledge and
that I have made a good-faith effort to resolve the matter in dispute
before requesting arbitration. On my honour and in the presence of
the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people I undertake this oath.
[Peregrines of religions other than the Religio Romana may specify the
deity/deities in whose presence the oath is undertaken].

The following text is the oath which a citizen reus shall take in the
reply to the request for arbitration:

I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I
have made in my reply to the request for arbitration is true to the
best of my knowledge. On my honour as a citizen and in the presence
of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens of religions other than the
Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose presence the
oath is undertaken].

The following text is the oath which a peregrine reus shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:

I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I have made
in my reply to the request for arbitration is true to the best of my
knowledge. On my honour and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses
of the Roman people I undertake this oath. [Peregrines of religions
other than the Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose
presence the oath is undertaken].

The following text is the oath which a citizen witness shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:

I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the evidence
I shall give is true and that I have neither received nor shall
receive compensation for my testimony. On my honour as a citizen and
in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by
their will and favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens of religions
other than the Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose
presence the oath is undertaken].

The following text is the oath which a peregrine witness shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:

I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the evidence I shall
give is true and that I have neither received nor shall receive
compensation for my testimony. On my honour and in the presence of
the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favour I undertake this oath. [Peregrines of religions other than the
Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose presence the
oath is undertaken].
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17073 From: Ben Okopnik Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Gai Corneli -

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 09:15:13PM +0000, Neil Lucock wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 14:05, Kristoffer From wrote:
>
> > But, still. I'd suggest creating the brochure in LaTeX. An established
> > standard readable and editable by humans in any texteditor, which can
> > easily be made to produce either .pdf or .ps output. Also, nothing beats
> > gzip:ed latex for size. :)
> >
> > (Well, 'cept for bzip:ed or ppm:ed, but what the heck...gzip works.)
>
> Salvete,
>
> I suppose I'll have to load LaTeX onto SuSe and start learning it. Is
> there a Windows version for people to use?

<http://wwwserv1.rz.fh-hannover.de/mbau/tim/hentschel/lyx/> details the
agony of doing this under Wind0ws. :) Looks like you'd be a lot better
off firing up your SuSE box.

> Nothing beats open source:
>
> dixitque Deus fiat Unix et facta est linux
> et vidit Deus linuxem quod esset bonum et divisit linuxem ac
> Fenestras....

"...and never the TWAIN shall meet", yes. :)


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ars longa, vita brevis.
Art is long, life is short.
-- Seneca, "De brevitate vitae"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17074 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salve Marinus,
sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible error 404 is in
front of my eyes... ;-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete quirites,
>
> The beautiful and talented Julilla Sempronia Magna has graciously
> created a website featuring my campaign platform, endorsements of
> others I hope you'll vote for, and record of service to Nova Roma.
>
> Drop by and have a look. She does really nice work.
>
> (link below)
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17075 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Salvete Omnes et Pius,
congratulations, Amice, and welcome to the Office of the Curule
Aedile! I support your candidacy!
I'm very glad to see you run for this Magistracy and I'm sure you'll
be a good Aedile.
I hope you would like to continue the project of Magna Mater as well
as possible and I invite you to work with Marcus Iulius Perusianus
about it. I would like to see my "baby" (the project) grow and
become big and important ;-)
I'll here to assist and suggest you about the MM's project.


Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17076 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Cn. Corneli -

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 05:36:43PM -0600, Charlie Collins wrote:
> Salve,
> Please, don't leave out us wonderful Mac OSX users! Although I am
> thinking about putting Yellow Dog Linux for PPC on my iBook soon.

The underlying mechanism of OS/X is BSD, another free Unix. If you can't
find the apps you need in the usual Mac channels, feel free to snag the
source for a Linux app and try compiling it; most things should work
pretty well. If in doubt, take a look at my article on compiling from
source:

<http://linuxgazette.net/issue74/okopnik.html>


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
-- Cicero, "Philippicae orationes". Often quoted "errare humanum est,
ignoscere divinum" - to err is human, to forgive divine.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17077 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salve Tiberius,
I agree with you and I think you gave a good answer.
However please correct me if I wrong, but I have to think that you
agree that accomplishing all the step (magistracies) is very
important. You say that working in each magistracies make the
Magistrate "competent, honorable, capable, dependable , studious,"
etc. and first of all able to manage the Res Publica.
So what do you think about the nova roman usual activity to jump
from a lower magistracy to an higher Office? Often it seems to me
that one year as Scriba, Quaestor, or Tribune is enough to manage
the laws or the finance or the affairs of an organization of 2000
members (don't worry, Diana, I know we have almoust 1.100 active
citisenz ;-).
Reading your words, I have to think that maybe a candidate as Consul
or as Prateor (just examples...) having only 1 or 2 years of a lower
Office will be not able to manage a so large and important Office? ;-
)

Vale
Fr. Apulus CAesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
> What is the Cursus Honorum?
>
> The Honorable Way?
>
> My impression from what I have read was that it was a testing
ground for those who aspired to one day serve the Republic as
Consul. The Roman magistrates who has served in lower magistrates
and then works up to the senior magistrates would be shown to be
competent and honorable in various administrative and managerial
tasks. In the lowest magistrate, the Quaestorship you learn to
handle other peoples money in a prudent fashion and to summit your
needs to the senior magistrate you serve as Quaestor. As you serve
and are elected to the different magistrates you learn to be a
generalist and not a specialist. It gives you time to prove
yourself, competent, honorable, capable, dependable , studious and
willing to serve with little expectation of great rewards. In fact
the magistrates of the ancient republic cost you a great deal of
money.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulus
> Candidate for Tribune
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:44 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] what is cursus honorum?
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
> I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is
for
> you all the Cursus Honorum?
> I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
> I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
> ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?
>
> Please, answer me because I have serious doubts on my idea of
cursus.
> Thank you very much to the quirites which will answer to this
> questions.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
> Candidate as Tribune
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17078 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, Fabian law on Centuries
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

When C. Fabius Quintilianus Consul first presented his Lex Centuriata,
I opposesd it vigorously because of its reduction of century points
for sacerdotes and because of the ambiguity in defining certain
categories of provincial and sodalitas officials. At the time I gave
my word to C. Fabius that I would support a revision of the law which
took these criticisms into serious account.

I am pleased to see the restoration of century points to sacerdotes
(although I do not understand why provincial sacerdotes should receive
six fewer points -- but that is a matter which needs more debate,
given the lack of a decretum from the Collegium on provincial
sacerdotes). The categories of provincial and sodalitas officials are
a bit more defined, although I would hope that next year's consules
will provide legislation spelling out in more detail what each level
entails.

In brief, I believe that C. Fabius has made a genuine effort at taking
my concerns into account and I shall, therefore, vote for this lex.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17079 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
>
> Salve Marinus,
> sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible error 404 is in
> front of my eyes... ;-)

Curious, I just brought it up. I'm cc-ing Julilla so she can resolve
the problem with you. I don't know if it's a permissions thing or if
she put in a special "Keep Caesar Out" filter.

We'll get it fixed.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17080 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salve, Franciscus Apulus Caesar -
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 12:52:24AM -0000, Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
> sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible error 404 is in
> front of my eyes... ;-)

Odd; it works for me. Try it without the explicit filename at the end:

<http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/>


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Alea iacta est!
Let the dice fly!
-- Julius Caesar, at the Rubicon
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17081 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salve

It worked for me

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Gawne
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: curatrix@... ; Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Campaign website


Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
>
> Salve Marinus,
> sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible error 404 is in
> front of my eyes... ;-)

Curious, I just brought it up. I'm cc-ing Julilla so she can resolve
the problem with you. I don't know if it's a permissions thing or if
she put in a special "Keep Caesar Out" filter.

We'll get it fixed.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17082 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete Omnes et Astur,
thank you very much, Amice, I think your answer is very reasonable
and of course the more realistic. I'm sure that your Consulship will
be very reasonable and realistic. Good luck!

As I said I like the idea and the ancient "image" of the "homus
novus", the new men changed the history of Rome. But I want to
remember to you all that the minimum age to have an Office was
higest that the Nova roman, it needed many money and not even the
homus novus was a positive experience. I think that NR offer us too
easy and speedy chances to "run" the Curusus Honorum: internet, a
shorter term, a lower age, the absence of the roman military career,
etc. In the last 3 years I have seen that we have lost the meaning
of the Cursus Honorum, "the way of the honors" (i hope my english
translation is correct ;-).
I fear that we become too ambitious and we want to be important and
to have the power easly and early. Accomplishing the Cursus means
raising the experiences, the skills, the ideas, etc. about all the
fields of the Res Publica. It means become "politically adult", able
to understand each problem of a big organization.

I know that my words are a "song out of the chore" and maybe you'll
ignore them. I'll continue to accomplish the Cursus step by step
slowly and correctly trying to raice the right skills. Please, don't
be hurted by my words, they are only words of an observer. I hope
some candidates for the 2758 will understand them ;-)

Thank you all for your attenction.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Candisate as Tribune


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Francisce Apule.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
> <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
>
> > I would like to ask to all the candidates to all Offices what is
> > for you all the Cursus Honorum?
> > I would like to know what it means and why we use it?
> > I would like to ask you all what are the goals of the original
> > ancient roman cursus and what are the goals in Nova Roma?
>
> The Cursus Honorum is, in my humble opinion, one of the
masterpieces
> of the Roman political and administrative system. Let me please
> explain this concept further.
>
> In our modern democracies, we often have to vote to elect a public
> official from a list of candidates. But, how often does one of the
> candidates have the appropriate level of expertise? How can I know
if
> Governor Schwarzenegger (just an example; no offence meant) will
be a
> good governor, if he has never performed political or
administrative
> tasks before? I can certainly have an opinion about his merits as
an
> actor; but a successful actor is not necessarily a good politician.
>
> Of course, it goes without saying that someone can be a good
> politician *without* pevious experience, and that someone can have
> all the experience in the world and be an awful politician. But
who
> would you trust more; a doctor with previous experience or one
with
> no experience?
>
> The Romans thought that, in order to be a good consul, it was a
good
> idea to have previous experience in guvernamental tasks. So they
> devised a sequence of positions of growing responsability that
would
> teach politicians to actually handle the Republic. And I think
that
> Rome's success is a good measure of the apropriateness of that
idea.
>
> Is it a good idea to use the same system in Nova Roma? Well; I
> certainly welcome the experience I have gained as tribunus plebis
and
> praetor now that I intend to face the complexities surrounding the
> consulship. Is it strictly necessary? Perhaps it isn't; but I
still
> think that it is a good idea to teach people how to do one thing
> before sending them to do it.
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17083 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salve Amice,
I checked again and now it works, congratulations for your website!
I hope Julilla doesn't hate me so much to restrict me a so nice
website ;-) ... and I have to suspect that you ordered her to keep
out me ... :-)

It's a joke, I'm sure that there was a temporary problem.

Now everything is ok and I wish you good luck for your election,
Amice!

Vale
Fr. Apulsu Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:
> >
> > Salve Marinus,
> > sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible error 404 is
in
> > front of my eyes... ;-)
>
> Curious, I just brought it up. I'm cc-ing Julilla so she can
resolve
> the problem with you. I don't know if it's a permissions thing or
if
> she put in a special "Keep Caesar Out" filter.
>
> We'll get it fixed.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17084 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Campaign website
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Amice,
> I checked again and now it works, congratulations for your website!
> I hope Julilla doesn't hate me so much to restrict me a so nice
> website ;-) ... and I have to suspect that you ordered her to keep
> out me ... :-)
>
> It's a joke, I'm sure that there was a temporary problem.

LOL as if I would, amice! I am guessing that there was a temporary
wrinkle in the ether, for I would never lock the door on YOU!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17085 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
They are remaking Hannibal! Vin Diesel is in the title role. Hehe. We will
see how good an actor he really is I guess :)

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Collins" <deist@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy


> Salve,
> I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!
>
> Vale,
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17086 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Yes indeed. There is a virtual Gaggle of Alexander the Great films as well
as a proposed film titled "Rubicon" It would deal with the whole civil war
between Pompeius and Caesar. Michael Mann is supposedly directing (If any of
you are interested in that sort of info)

Either way, the Ancient World is coming back in a big way

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:35 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy


> Salve Romans FYI
>
>
> I saw a clip of the up coming Brad Pitt movie TROY and it looks real good.
I hope the movie is as good as this clip. It seems the ancient world is a
good source for movies again.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17087 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
I remember reading about a proposed film called Byzantium which would deal
with the Eastern Empire. I think it was an intended Trilogy. I am not sure
whatever happened with that.

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:14 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
> | Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the
> | Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman
> | Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.
>
> Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.
>
> Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to get
> you through:
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/
>
> It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on IMDB.
> Available through amazon or wherever. :)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
> - --
>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQE/w3HYAGtgaSonkUoRAqq3AJ9NU+ORyDw4Isxve0m/nl2dNmv91ACfTS5O
> 1B58nfdGCfCiEJ//2kHEFGg=
> =q0Lp
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17088 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
As a Mac OS X user, Thank You so much for thinking of me!

~ Servius Equitius
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Collins <deist@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 6:36 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve,<BR>
   Please, don't leave out us wonderful Mac OSX users! Although I am<BR>
thinking about putting Yellow Dog Linux for PPC on my iBook soon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
AIM: KSDeist<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17089 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Away on Wednesday 26th
Salvete omnes.
I'll be away on Wednesday 26th. I'll be back on Thursday evening (Friday in Roman time).
Bene valete
L. Pompeius Octavianus
Senator, Tribunus Plebis et Propraetor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17090 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve

Naw, that one's too sad!
I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish name - It will always be Constantinople to me!

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 9:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete omnes,<BR>
<BR>
Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the <BR>
Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman <BR>
Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Quintus Lanius Paulinus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
> Hash: SHA1<BR>
> <BR>
> Charlie Collins wrote:<BR>
> | I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!<BR>
> <BR>
> Salve, Gnaeus Corneli Lentule.<BR>
> <BR>
> Wish granted.<BR>
> <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382731/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382731/</a><BR>
> <BR>
> Unless you were talking about the one with Anthony Hopkins, of <BR>
course.<BR>
> <BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
> - --<BR>
> <BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17091 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Romans

Fr. Apulus Caesar has started a very good discussion on the Cursus Honorum. I would like to take it a step further and suggest that we start to think and discuss legislation that would require adherence to this. Some of the question we might consider.

Would it be desirable to do this in Nova Roma?
What steps up the Cursus Honorum would be required and which ones, if any would be optional.
With no Nova Roman military obligation what would be an appropriate substitution, if any.
The Romans had higher age requirement than we do, should we increase them, keep them the same or reduce them for some offices? You may not hold elected office from the ages of 18-20, should this remain?
Should we require a number of years as a taxpayer ( Property Requirement)?
Should we give extra credit for those who donates money to Nova Roma?
Should we give extra credit for those who recruit a certain number of new citizens in a certain period of time ?
Should we restrict how many times a person can serve as Consul?
Should there be a requirement that a set time must have elapsed between Consulships
Should we require a year out of office like the Romans did? ( this was so you could be prosecuted in the courts)
Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from running those offices in which the person or persons elected are awarded a Senate seat.
Should we require a number of earned century points in order to run for certain offices?
Are none of these question important and which ones should we ask?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune
Fortuna Favet Fortibus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17092 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1419

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your code, follow the instructions posted previously to
obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17093 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salvete quirites, et salve Tiberius Galerius,

Tiberius asked about the Cursus Honorum of antiquity:

> Would it be desirable to do this in Nova Roma?

I think it'd be desirable to get closer to it than we are now,
while still acknowledging the differences of our situation. We should
probably have more Quaestors, for example, so that one could be
assigned to each provincial governor.

> What steps up the Cursus Honorum would be required and which ones, if
> any would be optional.

Well, remember that we have a defined Cursus Honorum already, so there
are already some requirements. I think that we ought to at very least
maintain them, and possibly add other requirements. We'd also have to
think about "grandfathering" those who have already attained senior
magestries, but who may never have been Quaestors. I wouldn't want to
require a Consular Senator to go back and serve as Quaestor before he
could run for Censor. So it's going to take some careful thought to
answer this and many of your other questions.

> With no Nova Roman military obligation what would be an appropriate
> substitution, if any.

None. We ought not turn our government into a timocracy, no matter how
much that might personally benefit me and a couple of other people.

[snipping many good questions which deserve discussion once I'm
in a position to write some legislation]

> Should we restrict how many times a person can serve as Consul?

Yes. We should. Unless no one qualified stands for the office,
I think that anyone who has been Consul should have to wait ten
years (as was the practice in antiquity) before running again.
In the event no one qualified candidates for the office when the
call for candidates is made, consulars could become candidates
after the Kalends of Decembris, but not before.

> Should we require a year out of office like the Romans did? ( this was
> so you could be prosecuted in the courts)

While I doubt we'll see many prosecutions, I think this is a good
idea. If it's ever going to become practice, it pretty much must
get encoded in law.

> Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from
> running those offices in which the person or persons elected are
> awarded a Senate seat.

No, I don't think so. In the case of a Praetor, who would have to
be a Senator by virtue of having been elected Praetor if nothing else,
it would deny the Consulship forever. Likewise we'd never have a
Censor again once the current ones left.

What would make more sense to me would be to conscript more of our
good active citizens into the Senate first, and then return to the
practice of antiquity where all magistrates were also Senators.
But this is also a question requiring much discussion.

> Should we require a number of earned century points in order to run
> for certain offices?

No, I don't think so. Patricians would get a huge advantage from
that, given how we accumulate the CP's so much faster than our
Plebian neighbors.

But before we proceed with anything more than discussion, we really
need to get a sense of how much resistance this would produce. We
can discuss it here to our hearts' content, but you know that if
a law is proposed, it'll draw fire from some quarter. Better to
know where that's coming from, and do what we can to mitigate the
reasons for objection *before* we proceed to writing laws.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17094 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Thanks for joining the discussion

My question

Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from running those offices in which the person or persons who are elected are awarded a Senate seat.

Your response

No, I don't think so. In the case of a Praetor, who would have to
be a Senator by virtue of having been elected Praetor if nothing else,
it would deny the Consulship forever. Likewise we'd never have a
Censor again once the current ones left.

I do not fully understand this response?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17095 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Dismissal of Provincial Legate Marcus Ambrosius Incendium
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus SPD:

I have accepted the resignation of Marcus Ambrosius Incendium as
Legate for Regio Nova Eboricum in Provincia Mediatlantica effective
immediately.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Propraetor, Mediatlantica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17096 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Tiberius Galerius,

You had asked:
> Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from
> running those offices in which the person or persons who are elected
> are awarded a Senate seat.

I had answered:
> No, I don't think so. In the case of a Praetor, who would have to
> be a Senator by virtue of having been elected Praetor if nothing else,
> it would deny the Consulship forever. Likewise we'd never have a
> Censor again once the current ones left.

Now you ask for clarification:
> I do not fully understand this response?

Currently, a person who is not a Senator can become one by election
to the office of Praetor or Consul. (Election to the Curule Aedileship
makes one eligible for conscription into the Senate after six months
in office, though in practice such conscriptions usually take place
in December of each year.)

If we were to say that no Senator could hold the office of Praetor
or Consul, thereby "freeing up" those offices so non-Senators could
get into the Senate by election, it would mean that once someone
became Praetor, and therefore a Senator, it would be impossible for
that person to ever run for Consul. Extending the problem, a Consul
or Consular Senator couldn't run for Censor, since that office is
also an automatic Senate seat.

Does that make it clearer?

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17097 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Codes
The citizens with the following voter tracking numbers have malformed
or inaccurate voter codes:

#1419, 1420, 1421, 1422

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Sincerely,

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17098 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Yes it is thanks

But if we were to enforce the Cursus Honorum and a person was elected Praetor and therefore elected to the Senate it could be written that they are eligible for election as Consul and if elected Consul they would be eligible for Censor. But a person who has become a Senator, say a Propraetor they would still have to serve in some lower magistrates before they could say run for Praetor, Consul and Censor. I am simply suggesting a standard progress up the Cursus Honorum. Serving as a Scriba, as important as it is should not be enough to stand for say Praetor. I don't thing the Romans considered Governorship as magistrates but we could include it in the progression of the Cursus Honorum .

These are just talking points and we welcome people who have other ideals of how we can do this.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Gawne
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] the Curusus Honorum


Salve Tiberius Galerius,

You had asked:
> Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from
> running those offices in which the person or persons who are elected
> are awarded a Senate seat.

I had answered:
> No, I don't think so. In the case of a Praetor, who would have to
> be a Senator by virtue of having been elected Praetor if nothing else,
> it would deny the Consulship forever. Likewise we'd never have a
> Censor again once the current ones left.

Now you ask for clarification:
> I do not fully understand this response?

Currently, a person who is not a Senator can become one by election
to the office of Praetor or Consul. (Election to the Curule Aedileship
makes one eligible for conscription into the Senate after six months
in office, though in practice such conscriptions usually take place
in December of each year.)

If we were to say that no Senator could hold the office of Praetor
or Consul, thereby "freeing up" those offices so non-Senators could
get into the Senate by election, it would mean that once someone
became Praetor, and therefore a Senator, it would be impossible for
that person to ever run for Consul. Extending the problem, a Consul
or Consular Senator couldn't run for Censor, since that office is
also an automatic Senate seat.

Does that make it clearer?

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17099 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-25
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Tiberius, et salvete quirites,

Tiberius writes:

> I don't thing the Romans considered Governorship as magistrates

In Roma Antiqua you had to have *been* a curule magistrate before you
ever got to be a governor. Praetors and Consuls became propraetors
and proconsuls in the year after their magistracy, having to go out
to a province and run it. Those propraetors and proconsuls had lictors
and curule chairs, and they held imperium, so yes, they were still
magistrates.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17100 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1441

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17101 From: Hiera Cassia Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve Servius, et al,

Well, the *corrupt* Turkish name is actually Greek, comes from "Stanbulin" (differing spellings apply) meaning "to the city". When the Turks conquered Constantinople they did not rename it; they started calling it Konstantiniyye, which means "of Constantine" (the -"iyye" suffix). The big Romaioi population in the city kept calling it "The City" because it was the biggest and most important city of whole of the Ottoman Empire; and this, later turned into "Istanbul". Later this was thought to come from "Islambol" by the Muslim population, meaning something like "Islam plenty", which was of course wishful thinking. Both Istanbul, deriving from Stanboulin; and Konstantiniyye were used until the Republic. After the revolution one name was decided upon and that was Istanbul.

To start with, Constantinople wasn't always the name for this city either. It's relatively new, considering the city's previous Greek history. It was, for a long time, known as Byzantium, after Byzas, since the 7th century B.C.E. It became a Roman city in around 100 B.C.E and wasn't named Constantinople until 306 C.E. And even after Constantine's name change it was referred to in many different names. Here's a link:

http://www.armory.com/~ssahin/OttomanCities/istanbul/


Although not ethnically *Turkish* (a lot of people in Istanbul aren't, for that matter), having been born, and lived in Istanbul for most of my life, I had to give my comments on this. I'm also not such a big fan of Constantine either, he wasn't great for the Roman Empire; neither was he great for the pagan religion.

And to correct Paulinus' mistake: Constantiople did not fall to the Seljuk Turks, but the Ottomans, who were not of Seljuk descent, but of Gagauz (Oguz).



Vale,

Hiera Cassia

----- Original Message -----
From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy


Salve

Naw, that one's too sad!
I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish name - It will always be Constantinople to me!

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 9:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17102 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve!

Have you ever read Guy Gavriel Kay's "Sailing to Serantium"? Now THAT'S Art!!

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
I remember reading about a proposed film called Byzantium which would deal<BR>
with the Eastern Empire. I think it was an intended Trilogy. I am not sure<BR>
whatever happened with that.<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:14 AM<BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
> Hash: SHA1<BR>
><BR>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:<BR>
> | Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the<BR>
> | Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman<BR>
> | Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.<BR>
><BR>
> Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.<BR>
><BR>
> Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to get<BR>
> you through:<BR>
> <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/</a><BR>
><BR>
> It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on IMDB.<BR>
> Available through amazon or wherever. :)<BR>
><BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
><BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)<BR>
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - <a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a><BR>
><BR>
> iD8DBQE/w3HYAGtgaSonkUoRAqq3AJ9NU+ORyDw4Isxve0m/nl2dNmv91ACfTS5O<BR>
> 1B58nfdGCfCiEJ//2kHEFGg=<BR>
> =q0Lp<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17103 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
You must be bloody karkin' us - Vin Diesel, ACT ? What med.'s are you on (Man, & I though MINE were good!)??
Oh - take it back; you said "Let's see if..." - well, the answer to that is obvious, eh? Tho' I'll admit "Fast & Furry Assed" was fun.

~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:04 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
They are remaking Hannibal! Vin Diesel is in the title role. Hehe. We will<BR>
see how good an actor he really is I guess :)<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Charlie Collins" <deist@...><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:55 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Salve,<BR>
>     I wish they would do a re-make of Hannibal!<BR>
><BR>
> Vale,<BR>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus<BR>
><BR>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17104 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
While I'll admit the mini-series Helen of Troy wasn't bad (okay, I'm a Trojan at heart, I admit it - the Greekies were friggin' Barbarians at that point, bunch of bleedin' Pirates - all of the Records of the Brotherhood of Kings agree to that), I'm usuallly dubious of anything as far back as Alexander: Anachronisms out the yin-yang & the culture & such are usually way off. Bad.
Now a good Caesar flick would probably attract good enough backing (after Gladiator) & qualified experts to do it right (after all, we have Caesar's notes, all they have to do is edit it for film length).

That was a really barbarically constructed sentence; either it's late or the morphine just kicked in. Sorry.

~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:04 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
Yes indeed. There is a virtual Gaggle of Alexander the Great films as well<BR>
as a proposed film titled "Rubicon" It would deal with the whole civil war<BR>
between Pompeius and Caesar. Michael Mann is supposedly directing (If any of<BR>
you are interested in that sort of info)<BR>
<BR>
Either way, the Ancient World is coming back in a big way<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...><BR>
To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:35 AM<BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Salve  Romans FYI<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I saw a clip of the up coming Brad Pitt movie TROY and it looks real good.<BR>
I hope the movie is as good as this clip. It seems the ancient world is a<BR>
good  source for movies again.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Vale<BR>
><BR>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus<BR>
><BR>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17105 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#7018

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix