Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Nov 26-28, 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17105 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17106 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17107 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17108 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17109 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17110 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17111 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17112 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Antioch of Pisidia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17113 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17114 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17115 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17116 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17117 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17118 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17119 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Salve
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17120 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17121 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to Magistrates/Citizens (Nuts & Bolts)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17122 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Salve
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17123 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17124 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17125 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17126 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Boy Scout Camporee March 26-28
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17127 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17128 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17129 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17130 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17131 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17132 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17133 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17134 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17135 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17136 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17137 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17138 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17139 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17140 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17141 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17142 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17143 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17144 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17145 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17146 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17147 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17148 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17149 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17150 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Simon Scarrow
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17151 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Latin forms of address
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17152 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17153 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: PS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17154 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17155 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Declaration of candidacy: Q Fabius Maximus stands for Cens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17156 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17157 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17158 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17159 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17160 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17161 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17162 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17163 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17164 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Quintus Fabius Maximus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17165 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Cursus Honorum Militum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17166 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17167 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17168 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17169 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17170 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17171 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17172 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17173 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17174 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17175 From: C. Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Test Message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17176 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17177 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17178 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17179 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17180 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17181 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: R
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17182 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17183 From: C. Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Test Again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17184 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Notes on the Kalkriese Style Lorica Segmentata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17185 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17186 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: PAYPAL VIRUS WARNING!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17187 From: Joel Baumgartner Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Other Bogus Mail...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17188 From: Christopher L. Wood Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17189 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17190 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17191 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17192 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17193 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17194 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17195 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17196 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Fwd: Thanksgiving
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17197 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17198 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Quintus Fabius Maximus for Censor!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17199 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17200 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17201 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Test Message!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17202 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17203 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Some questions to the candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17204 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Fw: Some questions to the candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17205 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: A poll on Roman monuments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17206 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17207 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17208 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Net access for magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17209 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: A poll on Roman monuments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17210 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17211 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Endorsements for Tribunis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17212 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17213 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17214 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17215 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17216 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17217 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17218 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17219 From: StarVVreck@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17220 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Thraco-Daco-Moesian Languages Project
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17221 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17222 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17223 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign -Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17224 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17225 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17226 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17227 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17228 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17229 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Questions to QFM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17230 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Answers of Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17231 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Answers of Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17232 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: A poll on Roman monuments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17233 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17234 From: C.IVL.MARIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Search for a candidate !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17235 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17236 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17237 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17238 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17239 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Lectures / Meanings
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17240 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17241 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Search for a candidate !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17242 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17243 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Using the Contio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17244 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17245 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17246 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17247 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17248 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17249 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Language Abilities
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17250 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17251 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Answers of Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17252 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17253 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Lectures / Meanings
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17254 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17255 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17256 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17257 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17258 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17259 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17260 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17261 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17262 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17263 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17264 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17265 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17266 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17267 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17268 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17269 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17270 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17271 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17272 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17273 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17274 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: PLEASE VOTE!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17275 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17276 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17277 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17278 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17279 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17280 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17105 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#7018

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17106 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Marinus,

> No Diana, the point is not moot. I have over 100 e-mails saved in a
> confidential folder covering cases I've investigated for citizens this
> year involving transactions they had difficulty with involving some
> merchant registered as a member of the Ordo Equester.

Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales? I'm impressed. I was thinking you had
closer to 5 complaints this year.
Statistically speaking, since only 1 out of every 7 people actually complain about not receiving
merchandise when they've ordered it from a company, that would mean that NR had about 700 sales
through the website in less than 11 monthsduring the last 11 months. That's quite a bit and I wonder
then why NR has an empty trasury....
And even more amazing that all 100 of those people knew enough about NR and her government to email
the Curule Aedile with their complaints, even though the website doesn't mention you gentlemen at
all.
Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17107 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizens with the following voter tracking numbers has malformed or
inaccurate voter codes:

#7033, #7036

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17108 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 00:59, Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
> Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
> -- Cicero, "Philippicae orationes". Often quoted "errare humanum est,
> ignoscere divinum" - to err is human, to forgive divine.
Salvete,
I think he quote "to err is human, to forgive divine" comes from
Alexander Pope, whose inpiration was Horace.I forget where he said it,
it was probably in The Essay on Man but it might have been The Dunciad.
valete
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17109 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Diana Aventina!

Actually, my own experience has been that Nova Romans are a helpful lot. If I don't know who to complain to, I send out an e-mail addressed to three or four people and ALWAYS get pointed in the right direction. Only one in seven regular folks complain but we have pretty high standards here; I'd say only one in seven Nova Romans WOULDN"T complain, and they'd all get steered to the correct office. I've only been here just over a month, but I've had dozens of questions that were ALWAYS answered!
My last job was at a Hilton Luxury Hotel, and WE didn't even achieve that level of success - and we charged over a hundred $$ a night for a room only in the suburbs! Sure, we squabble a lot (we're Romans, waddya expect?), but we are Civilized!
& helpful. Very, very helpful! Better than the best service industries out there, and it's all Volunteer! It's amazing, really.
Oh, & if Marinus says he has a 100 e-mails on file, then he has a hundred e-mails on file. Why is the Treasury empty? Good question - I know who handles our Treasury, but I don't know if anybody is auditing these company's sales to make sure we're getting our share. Any of you famously helpful Romans have an answer for me? (Just watch, Diana - someone will!)

Vale
Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 1:17 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Marinus,<BR>
<BR>
> No Diana, the point is not moot.  I have over 100 e-mails saved in a<BR>
> confidential folder covering cases I've investigated for citizens this<BR>
> year involving transactions they had difficulty with involving some<BR>
> merchant registered as a member of the Ordo Equester.<BR>
<BR>
Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales? I'm impressed. I was thinking you had<BR>
closer to 5 complaints this year.<BR>
Statistically speaking, since only 1 out of every 7 people actually complain about not receiving<BR>
merchandise when they've ordered it from a company, that would mean that NR had about 700 sales<BR>
through the website in less than 11 monthsduring the last 11 months. That's quite a bit and I wonder<BR>
then why NR has an empty trasury....<BR>
And even more amazing that all 100 of those people knew enough about NR and  her government to email<BR>
the Curule Aedile with their complaints, even though the website doesn't mention you gentlemen at<BR>
all.<BR>
Vale,<BR>
Diana Moravia<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17110 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 02:36, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:
> Salve
>
> Naw, that one's too sad!
> I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish name - It will always be Constantinople to me!
Salvete,
What Turkish name? Istanbul is corrupt Greek for "to the city". (The
-bul part is Greek "polis")
valete
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17111 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve Hiera Cassia!

Thank you! I'd only ever heard the Islamabol version, or more commonly that it was an Ottoman corruption or drift from the Constantinople>'Onstonable>Instonbul>Istanbul, or variations on that theme. Thanks for the correction!
No, Constantine was no friend to Pagandom - none of them were, but I still feel sorry for the last Emperor: Too poor to buy the bloody siege gun himself, the gunmaker sold it to the Invaders (& they say Americans will do anything for a buck!). That spelled the end for the famous walls - while there were Churches covered in gold! The irony is priceless. Silly Christians - guess they got their Afterlife & Salvation ahead of time, didn't they? See: Superstitio=Bad ! (So Religio must = Good! :-D)
Sorry - no real offense intended; I'm just one of those Pagans who can't pass up a chance to razz the folks that worship a dead guy. (& why that guy when there were so many Heroes? Don't like bloody-minded heroes? Fine: There's always Asclepius/ Aesculapius - Who can really object to Healing? So why a Galilean excorcist whose body was moved? Years & years of reading every bit of Apocrypha extant & I still can't give a good answer - the teachings weren't unique, the morality wasn't original, even Resurrection was widely available elsewhere, so was Salvationism, & the fixation on Demons, Demons Everywhere was psychotic! For some reason - maybe a result of the Plagues & Earthquakes - the World just went insane! Really bizarre!!)
Okay, I've rambled enough! Take care! (By the way - How many job offers have you received so far?)

Vale
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Hiera Cassia <psaglav@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 10:25 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Servius, et al,<BR>
<BR>
Well, the *corrupt* Turkish name is actually Greek, comes from "Stanbulin" (differing spellings apply) meaning "to the city". When the Turks conquered Constantinople they did not rename it; they started calling it Konstantiniyye, which means "of Constantine" (the -"iyye" suffix). The big Romaioi population in the city kept calling it "The City" because it was the biggest and most important city of whole of the Ottoman Empire; and this, later turned into "Istanbul". Later this was thought to come from "Islambol" by the Muslim population, meaning something like "Islam plenty", which was of course wishful thinking. Both Istanbul, deriving from Stanboulin; and Konstantiniyye were used until the Republic. After the revolution one name was decided upon and that was Istanbul.<BR>
<BR>
To start with, Constantinople wasn't always the name for this city either. It's relatively new, considering the city's previous Greek history. It was, for a long time, known as Byzantium, after Byzas, since the 7th century B.C.E. It became a Roman city in around 100 B.C.E and wasn't named Constantinople until 306 C.E. And even after Constantine's name change it was referred to in many different names. Here's a link:<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.armory.com/~ssahin/OttomanCities/istanbul/">http://www.armory.com/~ssahin/OttomanCities/istanbul/</a><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Although not ethnically *Turkish* (a lot of people in Istanbul aren't, for that matter), having been born, and lived in Istanbul for most of my life, I had to give my comments on this. I'm also not such a big fan of Constantine either, he wasn't great for the Roman Empire; neither was he great for the pagan religion.<BR>
<BR>
And to correct Paulinus' mistake: Constantiople did not fall to the Seljuk Turks, but the Ottomans, who were not of Seljuk descent, but of Gagauz (Oguz).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Hiera Cassia<BR>
<BR>
  ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
  From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <BR>
  To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <BR>
  Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:36 PM<BR>
  Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  Salve<BR>
<BR>
    Naw, that one's too sad!<BR>
    I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish name - It will always be Constantinople to me!<BR>
<BR>
  Vale<BR>
        ~ Servius<BR>
<BR>
  -----Original Message-----<BR>
  From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...><BR>
  Sent: Nov 25, 2003 9:47 AM<BR>
  To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<BR>
  Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
  <html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17112 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Antioch of Pisidia
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Antioch of Pisidia":

http://www.umich.edu/~kelseydb/Excavation/Antioch.html

This site, maintained by the Kelsey Museum, describes the excavation
of the site, best known for its copy of the Res Gestae Divi Augusti,
and an exhibition on the site's artifact.

Also on Pisidian Antioch:

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/yalvac.htm

and:

http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/Images/PisidAntioch.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17113 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Marinus, Amice,

> > Would it be desirable to do this in Nova Roma?

> I think it'd be desirable to get closer to it than we are now,
> while still acknowledging the differences of our situation. We
should
> probably have more Quaestors, for example, so that one could be
> assigned to each provincial governor.

Attenction, I think the topic is different, the question isn' "We
need other offices?", the real question is "we want a historically
correct cursus hornorum accomplishing it step by step (office by
office)?"

Other Quaestores? for what? only two Quaestores accomplish correctly
the Office, the other six are obliged to serve other Magistrates not
following the traditional duties. A Quaestor should take of care the
finances of the Magistracies and not organize Ludi or write laws or
check the subscriptions of the new citizens, etc. He's not a
secretary ... ;-)
We must to recreate the Office and after think to grow the number of
teh Magistrates.

> > What steps up the Cursus Honorum would be required and which
ones, if
> > any would be optional.

> Well, remember that we have a defined Cursus Honorum already, so
there
> are already some requirements.

The actual general requirements are: be assiduus, a minimum age and
6 months of office thinking that this office could be Scriba or
Accensus.
Do you think this requirements are enough? Thinking that usually a
Scriba is a citizen starting the own curusus, don't you think that
it could be better to have a more experienced high Magistrate with 1
or 2 years of a Magistracy (better with imperium)?
How the majority of our Consules and Praetores will accomplish well
the duties of the Office knowing nothing about the other fields of
the Res Publica?
Of course, I hope all the MAgistrates of the next year will be able
to honorate the own Offices and make a good job.

> I think that we ought to at very least
> maintain them, and possibly add other requirements.

I agree

> We'd also have to
> think about "grandfathering" those who have already attained senior
> magestries, but who may never have been Quaestors. I wouldn't
want to
> require a Consular Senator to go back and serve as Quaestor before
he
> could run for Censor. So it's going to take some careful thought
to
> answer this and many of your other questions.

We need to oblige our Illustri Senatores or "Grandfather" to serve
as Quaestor. A reformation of teh Curusus Honorum could be not
retroactive.

> > With no Nova Roman military obligation what would be an
appropriate
> > substitution, if any.
>
> None. We ought not turn our government into a timocracy, no
matter how
> much that might personally benefit me and a couple of other people.
>
> [snipping many good questions which deserve discussion once I'm
> in a position to write some legislation]

I agree with you about the military obligation and the trasfromation
in a timocracy, but if he want a historically correct system we have
to find a sobstitution because in Ancient Rome the service in the
army was an important step in the growing of the man. The young
learned the strusture, made own forma mentis and increased own
knowledges.
In NR what give the same to our young politics?

> > Should we restrict how many times a person can serve as Consul?
>
> Yes. We should. Unless no one qualified stands for the office,
> I think that anyone who has been Consul should have to wait ten
> years (as was the practice in antiquity) before running again.
> In the event no one qualified candidates for the office when the
> call for candidates is made, consulars could become candidates
> after the Kalends of Decembris, but not before.

I agree


....


> > Should we require a number of earned century points in order to
run
> > for certain offices?
>
> No, I don't think so. Patricians would get a huge advantage from
> that, given how we accumulate the CP's so much faster than our
> Plebian neighbors.

I agree, it could be a disavantage for the plebeians.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17114 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
G. Iulius Scaurus Fr. Apulo Caesari salutem dicit.

Salve, Fr. Apule.

You have my thanks for starting this complex and important discussion.
My personal preference is for restoration of the traditional Roman
cursus honorum with its age requirements. However, I do not think
such a thing is feasible in Nova Roma for at least three, possibly
four generations, since it will require a substantial part of the
population having grown up with the Religio and the fundamentals of
Romanitas learned literally at their parents' knee.

It is a question with which I have much struggled as I decided to
stand for aedilis curulis. I am a strong advocate of returning as
much as we can to the mos maiorum, so I did not violate the
traditional cursus honorum without careful thought. I choose not to
run for quaestor because I think I know reasonably well how Nova Roman
government works, and I learned as much as a scriba to Gn. Salix as
praetor as I would have been l.ikely to learn serving as a quaestor,
particularly given the fact that one of my primary responsibilities
was indexing the entirely of Nova Roman law and writing a manual
introducing it (which is in the proofreading stages at the moment and
which I hope to have ready for publication before Cn. Salix surrenders
his imperium as praetor). Also, the Nova Roman quaestorship does not
carry automatic adlection to the Senate as the Roman quaestorship did
and, I believe, a great deal of the education of a Roman quaestor
really commenced as a pedarius senator after his term. Also not
having a lucrative province to be sent to was a factor (truly I am
joking here :-). I am, as well, more than twice the age at which a
patrician Roman began his ascent of the cursus honorum (that, I fear,
is no joke).

I chose to run for aedilis curulis because, although not formally in
the traditional cursus honorum, it was the traditional choice for a
patrician who sought to advance to the praetoship or higher in the
cursus honorum later in his career. That, then, would begin to put me
into a position to follow the traditional cursus honorum more
scrupulously and in the traditional way. Under Nova Roman law an
aedilis curulis may be adlected to the senate and I frankly believe
that it was in the senate that the real governmental education of a
magistrate took place in Roma antiqua (one of the reasons I advocate
adlection of quaestores to the senate as pedarii in Nova Roma). It is
in the hands of the Di Immortales whether I shall achieve election,
much less such adlection, or not.

I did not mean to dwell at such length on my own circumstance, but it
seem to me that I owed at least some explanation of why so zealous an
advocate of the mos maiorum chose not to follow the de facto cursus
honorum of Nova Roma.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17115 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales?

No, I've investigated 17. Those hundred e-mails represent an iterative
process involving purchasers, merchants, and in some cases the Censors.

As for how people find me, I've assumed that the Censors sent them to
me for resolution, since they would be the first point of contact.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17116 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
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Hash: SHA1

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:
| I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish
| name - It will always be Constantinople to me!

Salve, Servi Equiti Mercuri Troiane.

To me, it is and will remain Miklagård. That's what the vikings called
it, though malnutrition and alcohol are probably responsible for that
particular corruption. Anyway, to a swedish ear, Miklagård sounds a lot
"cooler". :)

(In seven-bit ASCII: "Miklagaard")

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17117 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
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Hash: SHA1

g_iulius_scaurus wrote:
| You will have my vote. I cannot think of a more worthy
| potential colleague.

Salve, Gai Iuli Scaure.

Thank you, thank you. The praise keeps raining down 'pon my unworthy
self. It will be my pleasure to work alongside you, should the two of us
get elected. At the very least, I expect it will prove quite a learning
experience.

Good luck in the elections. :)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17118 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
So Hiera Cassia has graciously informed me! Thanks to you too, though! I always welcome new knowledge. I'm afraid my sources on this were very out of date! (When I was a little kid, the old encyclopedias we had ended with WWI as the most recent entries! Of course, we got newer ones later, but it's amazing how much 19th Century knowledge is still stuck inside my head! No wonder I often act like a Victorian anachronism. :-D )

Vale
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 1:41 AM
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 02:36, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:<BR>
> Salve<BR>
> <BR>
>   Naw, that one's too sad!<BR>
>   I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish name - It will always be Constantinople to me!<BR>
Salvete,<BR>
What Turkish name? Istanbul is corrupt Greek for "to the city". (The<BR>
-bul part is Greek "polis")<BR>
valete<BR>
G Cornelius Severus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17119 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Salve
Salve,

I was pondering. How would one get a photograph on their profile?

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17120 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve Servius Equitius et salvete omnes:

> Too poor to buy the bloody siege gun himself, the gunmaker sold it to the Invaders (& they > say Americans will do anything for a buck!). That spelled the end for the famous walls -
> while there were Churches covered in gold! The irony is priceless.

Actually, by 1425, 28 years before the final collapse, Constantinople, which had never fully recovered from the sack of 1204, was in a pretty pathetic state of disrepair. One history notes: "...by 1425 the inhabitants are unlikely to have numbered more than 50,000, and may well have been considerably less. ...her trade had been taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Venetians and the Genoese. The coinage, already debased, was devalued again and again and the system of food distribution was on the point of collapse. The people were thus chronically undernourished and their low resistance to disease caused one epidemic after another to rage unchecked through the city. The simultaneous lack of manpower and of money made it impossible to keep the buildings in repair. Nearly all were by now seriously dilapidated. Many of the churches were little more than empty shells. Constantine's great Hippodrome, rapidly falling into ruin, was used as a polo ground. Even the imperial Palace of Blachernae was crumbling."

In 1403 a merchant had written, "Despite its size and the huge circuit of its walls, [Constantinople] is poorly populated; for in the midst of it are a number of hills and valleys on which there are fields of corn and vineyards and many orchards; and in these cultivated areas the houses are clustered together like villages; and this is in the midst of the city. The inhabitants are not well clad but are poor and shabby."

Poor Constantine XI probably wished he had had churches covered in gold and other precious metals. Instead it was his thankless task to reign for five years over what had become little more than a feeble remnant of a great city.

Vale.

L. Suetonius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17121 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to Magistrates/Citizens (Nuts & Bolts)
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.

To those who have responded to my original message on this subject, I am very pleased to see so many citizens taking an interest in this. While I have little knowledge of the arcane methods of reproducing such a flyer using the magic boxes and mystical software, I see such recruitment brochures and other handouts of a like nature as being a cooperative effort that should begin very soon after the upcoming elections.
There would need to be a description of Nova Roma's purpose in the world outlining our philosophy, involvement in archaeology and classical culture, the Religio, the sodalites. There should be a brief address by the Consuls; information on the various lists by the Praetors; a note of our political system by the Censors; and something about religion by the PM & the Sacred College. Each flyer should also have a couple of photos of military units civilians, and gladiators. Finally, there should be a blank space where a label could be affixed giving provincial information and a local citizen (or two) who would be willing to meet newcomers & provide their emails and a mailing address. Obviously, this means that a single sheet brochure would need to be double-sided.
Such a brochure would need to be on a format that can be run off of virtually any computer (using Windows) with a color or laser printer so that any province or local area having an event could make/copy/run off the brochure.
Please remember that we will need to get this brochure ready for the Roman Fair taking place in Nashville, Tennessee during March 2004. I have made arrangements for the pavilion, a table, chairs. We will need volunteers to man the booth along with all things related to NR for display.
As I live in Nashville, I will be happy to coordinate this with Gary Barbosa and the Magistrates. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17122 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Salve
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Hash: SHA1

Scriboni89@... wrote:
| I was pondering. How would one get a photograph
| on their profile?

Salve, Gnaeus Scriboni Scriptor.

Mail it to me, and I'll post it. As you can see on other profiles, there
is room for two pictures. One is of your face/head, 150 by 150 pixels,
the other is a bit larger, and can be of anything you want.

I usually only get one large picture, from which I have to cut out and
blow up a "mugshot" myself for the 150x150 slot. But I'd prefer if you
did it yourself, as I've got no taste and am not all that skilled at
pruning.

Oh, and the format should be JPEG, or .jpg. And I WILL need your full
novaroman name, so I know where to put the image(s).

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17123 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar who said in part

"I agree with you about the military obligation and the transformation
in a timocracy, but if he want a historically correct system we have
to find a substitution because in Ancient Rome the service in the
army was an important step in the growing of the man. The young
learned the structure, made own forma mentis and increased own
knowledge's. In NR what give the same to our young politics?"

TGP We could require a term of service in one of the Legio , if for some reason you cannot re-enact then you drive the equipment from place to place, be a general helper.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17124 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Diana & Marinus,

Do I smell sarcasm? Would you like some cream to go with those claws, felinae? If I didn't know the two of you better, I'd swear that this looks like a pair of candidates being snide to one another before an election. Of course, I know better since both of you are (seriously) good and respectful citizens and magistrates who would not be doing such things in the public forum where it might be misconstrued by the general populous. This is definitely a matter to be discussed by the appropriate magistrates privately since there is so much room for speculation. If there were 100 complaints, were they filed by 100 persons or a handful of seriously disgruntled persons? Were there actually 700 transactions conducted or a handful of communications that went awry? Were the complaints directed at a single member of the marcellum or a number? Were some of the complaints due to the slowness of shipping or communications breakdown or whatever?
I believe that whoever is elected to the Consulship in this upcoming election will have to appoint someone to seriously look into the Marcellum & the way it operates and contributes to the NR Treasury. I hope that whoever those citizens are that they will have all that is fortunate, proper, happy, and appropriate come to them. Vale.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17125 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salvete:

While I think the Legions are a good thing for Nova Roma, and they will help
attract people to our Micronation but I am extremely opposed to the idea
mentioned below. Why?

The legions don't "really" fight. They are a reenactment part of Nova Roma.
Anyone playing the part of a Legionnaire is role-playing the part, since they
do not actually fight. As a micronation we have NO conscript or standing
army. I believe we need to acknowledge that the Legions, while being a fun part
of Nova Roma, are just that. They are reenactment groups within our
Micronation to help establish the look and feel we want to present. But Nova Roma is
not a role-playing group. Gaius Modius Athanasius is NOT my Nova Roma persona!
It is WHO I AM. We are NOT the SCA.

I am a Flamen within Nova Roma not to reenact the Religio but to Recreate it.
I am a Legate in Nova Roma not to play at being a Roman but to rebuild Rome
as it once was. If I were in a legion I would be there to have fun, and to
reenact the life of a miles -- not to officially project the power of the senate
and people of Rome.

Valete:

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/26/2003 8:54:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spqr753@... writes:
TGP We could require a term of service in one of the Legio , if for some
reason you cannot re-enact then you drive the equipment from place to place, be a
general helper.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17126 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Boy Scout Camporee March 26-28
Salve Friends

I am the Chairman of the Appalachian Trail Boy Scout Camporee set for the Weekend of March 26-28 and to be held at Fort Frederick State Park which is a French and Indian war ( Queen Anne's war) fort. There will be about 400-600 Boy Scouts, plus leaders, in attendance and the area will be open to the general public as well.

(Fort Frederick State Park is located in the Cumberland Valley, 18 miles west of Hagerstown and one mile south of I-70 near Big Pool (Rt. 56, Exit 12). The park is 88 miles from Baltimore and 81 miles from Washington, D.C. )

The Theme of the Camporee is "Marching Through Time" and I would like to have some Roman reenactors for this event. We would want you to set up a typical Roman camp and to do you normal Public education program and to participate in a " Grand review" of all the other Reenacting units that come. If you know people who do reenacting for other time periods we are looking for them as well. We have the support of the Director of the National Civil War Medical Museum, located here in Frederick, and they will be bringing displays of American Civil War medicine. If you have some one who is knowledgeable about Roman Military medicine and can put on a display or demonstration that would be a great plus.


Please e-mail privately if you can help

Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
AKA
Tim Gallagher







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17127 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Perhaps Apulus Caesar, the gods feel you unworthy to
view this webpage, as it works fine for me. ;)
Perhaps an offer is in order?

M. Scipio Africanus

--- Franciscus Apulus Caesar
<sacro_barese_impero@...> wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
> sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible
> error 404 is in
> front of my eyes... ;-)
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17128 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salvete quirites, et salve Caesar,

I had written, with respect to the Cursus Honorum:
>>I think it'd be desirable to get closer to it than we are now,
>>while still acknowledging the differences of our situation. We should
>>probably have more Quaestors, for example, so that one could be
>>assigned to each provincial governor.

Caesar replied:
> Attenction, I think the topic is different,

It is, but it's related. To work the Cursus Honorum has to provide
a strong base of entry level offices, and make those offices meaningful.

> the question isn' "We
> need other offices?", the real question is "we want a historically
> correct cursus hornorum accomplishing it step by step (office by
> office)?"

See above, they're related. As far as "historically correct"
goes, the specifics of the cursus honorum varied over time.
I know that the canonical path is Quaestor to Praetor to
Consul, but there were Tribunician posts (both political and
military), and there were the Aediles, and there are also
plenty of historical examples of people who were allowed to
deviate from the canonical pathway.

> Other Quaestores? for what?

For the provincial governors.

> only two Quaestores accomplish correctly
> the Office, the other six are obliged to serve other Magistrates not
> following the traditional duties.

Yes, I know. The Consuls should have Quaestors, as should
every province. But the net number of Quaestors still goes
up if we do that.

> A Quaestor should take of care the
> finances of the Magistracies and not organize Ludi or write laws or
> check the subscriptions of the new citizens, etc. He's not a
> secretary ... ;-)

I agree. That's what scribae are for.

[current entry level requirements]
> The actual general requirements are: be assiduus, a minimum age and
> 6 months of office thinking that this office could be Scriba or
> Accensus. Do you think this requirements are enough?

Enough to run for a junior magistracy? It depends very much
on the person, and what their other life experience is. In
the case of someone like Iulius Scaurus, there's no question
that he's eminently qualified to be Curule Aedile next year.
He has served as a military officer, he is a professor in a
very rigorous field of learning, he is old enough to have
accumulated a lot of knowledge and experience.

We could establish something like more rigorous general
guidelines, but I'd want to be sure that a potential
candidate could petition the Senate (as was done in
antiquity by Marius and Caesar, to name two) for a waiver
of the nominal requirements.

[...]
> How the majority of our Consules and Praetores will accomplish well
> the duties of the Office knowing nothing about the other fields of
> the Res Publica?

There are ways to learn other than by doing.

I think Caeso Fabius Quintilianus has been a good Consul
this year, without having served as Praetor. I think I
can manage the same, though I certainly acknowledge that
in a perfect world I'd rather have been Praetor first.
I do think I'm on pretty decent terms with both of the
current praetors and several past ones, so I have some
knowledge of the duties involved and can call upon them
for advice and counsel should I need some specific knowledge.

> Of course, I hope all the MAgistrates of the next year will be able
> to honorate the own Offices and make a good job.

I hope so too Caesar. I trust you know me well enough
to know I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't think I'm
capable of being not only competent, but excellent, in
the office.

[...]
> I agree with you about the military obligation and the trasfromation
> in a timocracy, but if he want a historically correct system we have
> to find a sobstitution because in Ancient Rome the service in the
> army was an important step in the growing of the man. The young
> learned the strusture, made own forma mentis and increased own
> knowledges.
> In NR what give the same to our young politics?

There's nothing within Nova Roma itself to compare. The only
thing we can ask for is some proof of life experience indicating
the kind of progressively increasing responsibility and authority
that military service represented for Roma Antiqua.

What we could do is establish some kind of "credentials
board" within all three comitia, which would examine the
overall qualifications of potential candidates. People who
wanted to seek an office would have to submit a resume of
their Nova Roman and macroworld experience to this board
for review before their candidacy would be accepted.
What do you think? Would that satisfy your concern?

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17129 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina; salvete, Quirites.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 07:17:24AM +0100, Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
>
> > No Diana, the point is not moot. I have over 100 e-mails saved in a
> > confidential folder covering cases I've investigated for citizens
> > this year involving transactions they had difficulty with involving
> > some merchant registered as a member of the Ordo Equester.
>
> Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales? I'm
> impressed. I was thinking you had closer to 5 complaints this year.
> Statistically speaking, since only 1 out of every 7 people actually
> complain about not receiving merchandise when they've ordered it from
> a company, that would mean that NR had about 700 sales through the
> website in less than 11 monthsduring the last 11 months. That's quite
> a bit and I wonder then why NR has an empty trasury.... And even more
> amazing that all 100 of those people knew enough about NR and her
> government to email the Curule Aedile with their complaints, even
> though the website doesn't mention you gentlemen at

There are a few unwarranted assumptions in the above: 100 emails doesn't
necessarily equal 100 cases - in fact, it's almost certain that there
are fewer cases than there are emails. The above statistic of 1 in 7
complaints is also inapplicable for several reasons: the statistical
universe here is too small to generate a reasonable comparison sample,
there are multiple and simple communication channels between the seller
and the buyer (usually NOT the situation) - and, most of all, because
(IIRC) Marinus publically asked for people having this sort of problems
to contact him.

I could easily see 10-20 complaints generating 100 emails in the above
scenario, and I seem to remember approximately that number of complaints
about the NR coins on this list. So, 25 delayed sales generating 10-20
complaints in the above scenario certainly sounds reasonable to me, and
would explain the rest of the questions you posit above, at least to my
satisfaction.

Of course, just like the scenario you've painted, this is all pure
guesswork. :)


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Don't you know then, my son, how little wisdom rules the world?
-- Said by the Swedish chancellor Axel Oxenstierna to encourage his son Johan when
he doubted his ability to represent Sweden at the Westphalian peace conference.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17130 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, Gai Corneli -

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 06:37:17AM +0000, Neil Lucock wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 00:59, Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
> > Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
> > -- Cicero, "Philippicae orationes". Often quoted "errare humanum est,
> > ignoscere divinum" - to err is human, to forgive divine.

> Salvete,
> I think he quote "to err is human, to forgive divine" comes from
> Alexander Pope, whose inpiration was Horace.I forget where he said it,
> it was probably in The Essay on Man but it might have been The Dunciad.

Hmm, I wonder where (and what) in Horace he stole, I mean borrowed. :)
It would be interesting to compare the two quotes. The last time, G.
Iulius Scaurus provided a couple of references that made for a while of
happy digging in the classics...


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
Every man is the artisan of his own fortune.
-- Appius Claudius Caecus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17131 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cn. Equiti.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete quirites,
>
> The beautiful and talented Julilla Sempronia Magna has graciously
> created a website featuring my campaign platform, endorsements of
> others I hope you'll vote for, and record of service to Nova Roma.
>
> Drop by and have a look. She does really nice work.

I have to admit that I like the mosaic detail :-).
Well done, Iulilla Sempronia!

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17132 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salvete, omnes -

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 07:32:59AM -0500, Bill Gawne wrote:
> Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
>
> > Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales?
>
> No, I've investigated 17. Those hundred e-mails represent an iterative
> process involving purchasers, merchants, and in some cases the Censors.

<grin> My guess was pretty good, then - "10 to 20" is right in range.

> As for how people find me, I've assumed that the Censors sent them to
> me for resolution, since they would be the first point of contact.

Or possibly because you've made yourself available as a point of contact
for this specific type of problems here on the main list, something I
and (I suspect) many others appreciate.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vulnerant omnes, ultima necat.
All of them wound, the last one kills.
-- In reference to the hours; old inscription found on clocks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17133 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve, Titus Octavius Pius!

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 01:34:07PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:
> | I still can't call it by it's new corrupt Turkish
> | name - It will always be Constantinople to me!
>
> Salve, Servi Equiti Mercuri Troiane.
>
> To me, it is and will remain Miklagård. That's what the vikings called
> it, though malnutrition and alcohol are probably responsible for that
> particular corruption. Anyway, to a swedish ear, Miklagård sounds a lot
> "cooler". :)

So, given that we've had these great explanations telling us all the
whys, wherefores, and shades of meanings (thank you, Hiera Cassia!),
what does "Miklagård" mean?


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
Every man is the artisan of his own fortune.
-- Appius Claudius Caecus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17134 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cn. Equiti.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > Salvete quirites,
> >
> > The beautiful and talented Julilla Sempronia Magna has graciously
> > created a website featuring my campaign platform, endorsements of
> > others I hope you'll vote for, and record of service to Nova Roma.
> >
> > Drop by and have a look. She does really nice work.
>
> I have to admit that I like the mosaic detail :-).
> Well done, Iulilla Sempronia!
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Gratias plurimas, senator et candidatus! I have to admit the site
puns a bit on Gnaeus Equitius' cognomen.

Bonam Fortunam!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17135 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Julilla Sempronia Magna wrote:

> I have to admit the site
> puns a bit on Gnaeus Equitius' cognomen.

It's no worse than my Adelie Penguin on my Curule
Aedile website.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17136 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor
avete Francisce Omnesque,

thank you for your kind words, Propraetor, Senior Aedile and amice!

>I hope if he'll be elected as Quaestor, he'll can work about the Project
with the next >Curule Aedile

I really hope so, and I received a good offer (if both elected) to work
again in a Curule Aedile staff.

At the same time I'd like to give here my opinion about your question, what
is Cursus Honorum for me.

Apart from all the other definitions given by the other candidates I'd like
to remember the first concept in the Roman society: we "fight" to be "primus
inter pares", first among equals. We want to run the race of the honours,
because it is in our right to serve the Res Publica at our best, according
to the mos maiorum.
Of course step by step would be auspicios.... as "in suo anno" (in his proper
year) would be the most glorious way.
Because of NR young history this is not possible... and hopefully, it will
be so as soon as our community will reach a great number of active citizens.

valete

Marcus Iulius Perusianus ****for Quaestor**** http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM





Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
25/11/03 16.21
Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma

Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 945

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:36:08 -0000
From: "Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@...>
Subject: Rif:Re: Candidate for Quaestor

Salvete Omnes and Perusiane,

I give my full support to Illustrus Marcus Iulius Perusianus and I
invite you all to vote for him.

Perusianus is a my very good friend and trust me when I say that
he's one of the best nova roman citizen and man I knew. I'm sure he
coould have a wonderful future in our Res Publica and NR could grow
much thanking to his job.

In Provincia Italia he's doing a good job as Legatus Internis Rebus
organizing meeting, managing the internal affairs in Rome, creating
the local association, raising the taxes, etc ... a very precious
job for all the italic citizens. He created a wonderful project
called Signa Romanorum, a wonderful photo-archive of the roman
monuments in Italy and in Europe.

But I must to underline the very impoertant job done in my Cohors
Aedilis as Scriba. He's the mind and the hands of the
Project "Temple of Magna Mater" created by me and Consul
Quintilianus. He met the local istitutions, he met Prof. Pensabene
of teh University of Rome, he visited the archeological area making
special photos, he studied relations and documents about the temple
and the Goddess. I have to congratulate with him and to say "thank
you, Marce, for what you're doing for this project". If NR will
enter in the academical and archeological world in Italy, NR will
have to thank Marcus Iulius Perusianus.
I hope if he'll be elected as Quaestor, he'll can work about the
Project with the next Curule Aedile.

So, at the end leave me invite you all for the last time to vote
Marcus Iulius Perusianus as Quaestor.

Good luck, Marce!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile et Propraetor Italiae
Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17137 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Candidacy for Curule Aedile
M IVL PERVSIANVS TITO OCTAVIO PIO OMNIBVSQVE SPD

>As Curule Aedile, I plan to further the work done by this year's Aediles
>on the Magna Mater project, started by the Aediles of last year. The
>work there is of utmost importance to Nova Roma's credibility to the
>academic community. I hope to be able to work with Marcus Iulius
>Perusianus on this project, as we are both very much interested in it's
>success.

that's exactly what I meant ;-)
Nova Roma needs a Curule Aedile so eager to keep on working that project.
The Magna Mater is the key to the academic world!

Pie, if I am elected (I'm sure you will) it will be a pleasure to work for
you, your staff, for Nova Roma.

valete

Marcus Iulius Perusianus ****for Quaestor**** http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

_________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:55:36 +0100
From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
Subject: Candidacy for Curule Aedile

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salvete, quirites.

I stand before you, for the third time robed in the toga candida, this
time to seek the office of Curule Aedile.

Two years ago, you elected me to serve you in the position of
Quaestor, displaying a faith in me I did my utmost to prove true.
Serving under the senior Consul, I worked with collecting your taxes for
the first time ever, and tried to conduct this duty to the full extent
of my abilities.

Last year, you again elected me, this time to act as your webmaster in
the office of Curator Araneum, a duty which I believe I have performed
to the best of my abilities.

This year, I ask for your permission to assume the office of Curule
Aedile, what would be my next step on the classical cursus honorum.

As Curule Aedile, I plan to further the work done by this year's Aediles
~ on the Magna Mater project, started by the Aediles of last year. The
work there is of utmost importance to Nova Roma's credibility to the
academic community. I hope to be able to work with Marcus Iulius
Perusianus on this project, as we are both very much interested in it's
success.

Also, naturally, I will, together with my colleagues, offer you panem et
circensis, as is the duty of the Aediles to present to the people. I
promise a close cooperation with the collegium ponteficium to make the
ludi a proper tribute to those our republic is dedicated to, to those we
owe any claim we have to glory, the gods of Roma, Nova et Antiqua.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17138 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
avete Norice omnesque,

I'd like to give my full support to you as next Praetor.

I met this guy in Bologna last summer and enjoyed a wonderful day (and appreciated
his excellent Italian) ;-)

Buona fortuna!
valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS



Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
25/11/03 20.19
Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma

Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 946

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:52:56 +0100
From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus <cn.octavius.noricus@...>
Subject: Declaration of candidacy

Salvete Quirites!

I'm going to keep it short:

After a long period of reflection, I have decided to declare my candidacy
for the praetorship.

Many of you have seen my performance as Treasury Quaestor this year. I have
tried to work fast, reliably and professionally, and I dare say my conduct
of office met the high standards I set up for myself.
People have commended me as "fast", as "a hard worker" and as "a very capable
and responsive Quaestor".
It was a pleasure for me to serve Nova Roma as a Quaestor. I want to continue
my service: As a Praetor.

I promise you that I will show the same dedication that I have shown in
the last year.

Thank you for listening, and please consider voting for me as Praetor.

--
Optime valete!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
25.11.2003 16:52:44
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17139 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Salve Noricus,
I want to add my good luck for you, Noricus, remembering the days in
Bologna in the last summer.
I hadn't many collaborations with you but our meeting was wonderful
and in teh few times we talk by mail I appreciate your job.
Good luck!

VAle
Fr. Apulus Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, m_iulius@v... wrote:
> avete Norice omnesque,
>
> I'd like to give my full support to you as next Praetor.
>
> I met this guy in Bologna last summer and enjoyed a wonderful day
(and appreciated
> his excellent Italian) ;-)
>
> Buona fortuna!
> valete
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
>
>
>
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> 25/11/03 20.19
> Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma
>
> Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 946
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:52:56 +0100
> From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus <cn.octavius.noricus@g...>
> Subject: Declaration of candidacy
>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I'm going to keep it short:
>
> After a long period of reflection, I have decided to declare my
candidacy
> for the praetorship.
>
> Many of you have seen my performance as Treasury Quaestor this
year. I have
> tried to work fast, reliably and professionally, and I dare say my
conduct
> of office met the high standards I set up for myself.
> People have commended me as "fast", as "a hard worker" and as "a
very capable
> and responsive Quaestor".
> It was a pleasure for me to serve Nova Roma as a Quaestor. I want
to continue
> my service: As a Praetor.
>
> I promise you that I will show the same dedication that I have
shown in
> the last year.
>
> Thank you for listening, and please consider voting for me as
Praetor.
>
> --
> Optime valete!
>
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> cn.octavius.noricus@g...
> 25.11.2003 16:52:44
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17140 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
M. Iulius Perusianus wrote:

> avete Norice omnesque,
> I'd like to give my full support to you as next Praetor.

Thank you, Perusiane!

> I met this guy in Bologna last summer and enjoyed a wonderful day
> (and appreciated his excellent Italian) ;-)

Um, well, I wouldn't call it excellent... it's kind of rusty since I don't have enough opportunities to use it.
But I agree that the Bologna meeting was wonderful!

> Buona fortuna!

Anche a te!

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
26.11.2003 17:52:43
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17141 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Subject: Declaration of candidacy
Franciscus Apulus Caesar wrote:

> I hadn't many collaborations with you

That might change in the future... :-)

> but our meeting was wonderful

Exactly, you did a great job organizing it, and I liked it a lot!

> and in teh few times we talk by mail I appreciate your job.

I do what I can... Thank you!

> Good luck!

To you too!

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
26.11.2003 17:54:32
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17142 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Campaign website
Salve Africanus,

I agree with you, tonight I'll pray Bacchus asking to reduce me the
mulsum which permit me to see 404 everywhere. I'll offer to the God
a cup of light red wine made in a little factory close to Lupiae and
to Via Appia... Do you think it will be enough? ;-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...>
wrote:
> Perhaps Apulus Caesar, the gods feel you unworthy to
> view this webpage, as it works fine for me. ;)
> Perhaps an offer is in order?
>
> M. Scipio Africanus
>
> --- Franciscus Apulus Caesar
> <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> > Salve Marinus,
> > sorry but your website doesn't work... the terrible
> > error 404 is in
> > front of my eyes... ;-)
> >
> > Vale
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17143 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. Modius Athanasius. Salve.

The Legio formations that are attached to NR should not be regarded merely as a useless appendage of reenactors. In reality, they represent a ceremonial adjunct to our Republic. They have the potential to serve in the part of the Yeoman of the Guard or the Swiss Guard in Rome (of course, both of those units do have modern arms and training but are primarily ceremonial).
NR could form an Urban Cohort trained to act as security, crowd control, and fire watch at NR related events. They could be equipped in the manner of the original urban cohorts with military tunics, helmets, sandals, military belts, swords, and clubs (with the addition of radios & fire extinguishers). Their training program could be established by the Consuls in discussion with the most appropriate persons and then a lex could establish the cohort as an actual legal entity with a TO&E.
Each province could establish its own formation (maxmimum of ten vigiles commanded a tessarius or decurion) under the authority of the provincial governor and the Senate. Each squad would be required to meet up once or twice a year for square-bashing, security/fire safety/first aid training, unarmed combat, and other instruction. Each century would meet every one or two years for a combined training-ceremonial weekend. Each macronational/ continental division would be organized as a century led by a centurion or optio (the latter if less than a certain percentage of vigiles). These officers to be elected by the vigiles and approved by the provincial governor. The whole organization being headed by two elected magistrates (not in the same macronational country) to act as praefects or tribunis militaris. The post could be open to both patricians and plebians but the candidate must have served as a vigiles who has undergone the training program or helped design it (policemen, firemen, rescue workers, private security, military police, etc).
This would create the possibility for the cursus honorum to include a para-military aspect that would focus on actual service to the Republic, provide a ceremonial unit specifically under the authority of the Republic, and formed from the body of the Republic. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17144 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Francisce Apule.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes et Astur,
> thank you very much, Amice, I think your answer is very reasonable
> and of course the more realistic. I'm sure that your Consulship
> will be very reasonable and realistic. Good luck!

Thank you very much for your kind words, amice.

> As I said I like the idea and the ancient "image" of the "homus
> novus", the new men changed the history of Rome. But I want to
> remember to you all that the minimum age to have an Office was
> higest that the Nova roman, it needed many money and not even the
> homus novus was a positive experience. I think that NR offer us too
> easy and speedy chances to "run" the Curusus Honorum: internet, a
> shorter term, a lower age, the absence of the roman military
> career, etc. In the last 3 years I have seen that we have lost the
> meaning of the Cursus Honorum, "the way of the honors" (i hope my
> english translation is correct ;-).
> I fear that we become too ambitious and we want to be important and
> to have the power easly and early. Accomplishing the Cursus means
> raising the experiences, the skills, the ideas, etc. about all the
> fields of the Res Publica. It means become "politically adult",
> able to understand each problem of a big organization.
>
> I know that my words are a "song out of the chore" and maybe you'll
> ignore them. I'll continue to accomplish the Cursus step by step
> slowly and correctly trying to raice the right skills. Please,
> don't be hurted by my words, they are only words of an observer. I
> hope some candidates for the 2758 will understand them ;-)

I understand your desire to have a truly traditional Roman Cursus
Honorum, amice. Perhaps when Nova Roma has grown more and we have
much more candidates we might want to reconsider the option of
imposing the traditional minimum ages for each office. Currently, I
am afraid that we are too few to implement it. Our human resources
are simply to scarce, and we unfortunately can not give our
magistrates the possibility to learn through all those years, because
we need them *now*.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17145 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus suggested:

> NR could form an Urban Cohort trained to act as security,
> crowd control, and fire watch at NR related events.

Galeri, you know not what you suggest. If you think
the current concerns about having minors as citizens
provoked a storm of concern, this will bring about one
much greater.

First, the reenactment legions are in the business of
reenactment. If we tell them that they have to take on
security duties, they're liable as not to tell us to
shove it. This is one reason that Legio XX has never
sought official recognition from Nova Roma, even though
we work together to put on Roman Days every year. They
don't want to be told how to do what they do.

Second, once you put a force in place for the purpose
of securing an area, enforcing rules, and maintaining
good order, you ought to have all your ducks in line
where local, regional, and national laws are concerned.

As a Military Support Region commander in Maryland I
have a bunch of Community Emergency Response Teams and
Search and Rescue teams under my command. The training,
equipment, and maintenance required to keep these teams
certified is extensive, and would require a far greater
density of Nova Roma citizens in communities than we
currently have. The laws are very strict concerning
who may present themselves as a private security force,
or an emergency response team, or a search and rescue
organization. While I'd love to see Nova Roma get into
all of these, the reenactor legions are not the appropriate
vehicle for it.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17146 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
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Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
| So, given that we've had these great explanations telling
| us all the whys, wherefores, and shades of meanings (thank
| you, Hiera Cassia!), what does "Miklagård" mean?

Salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.

Two parts, "mikla" and "gård". Gård means something along the lines of
"house, stead, farm, home", so Miklagård is probably "Home of the
Miklas"...as to mikla, I'm far from sure. The closest word we've got
today is slang, and means approximately "fiddle with, meddle".

So Miklagård could conceivably mean "Home of the meddlers". I'm fairly
sure this isn't right, but it's an interesting thought. :)

I looked up the term and it seems to refer not only to Constantinople
but also the entire Byzantine empire.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17147 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tiberi Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> Fr. Apulus Caesar has started a very good discussion on the Cursus
> Honorum. I would like to take it a step further and suggest that we
> start to think and discuss legislation that would require adherence
> to this. Some of the question we might consider.
>
> Would it be desirable to do this in Nova Roma?

We already have a certain form of Cursus Honorum established through
our laws. Would it be desirable to bring the Novoroman Cursus Honorum
closer to its historical counterpart? That is a good question for a
good debate on pros and cons.

> What steps up the Cursus Honorum would be required and which ones,
> if any would be optional.

I guess that, in any case, the "steps" should follow Roman practice.
That is: quaestor-aedilis-praetor-consul-censor. That's the only
reasonable way to do such a thing.

> With no Nova Roman military obligation what would be an appropriate
> substitution, if any.

It is true that some Roman magistracies had a military signification
as well as a civil one, but I wouldn't strictly consider that
a "militart obligation". Power over the army was linked to imperium,
and not the other way round.

> The Romans had higher age requirement than we do, should we
> increase them, keep them the same or reduce them for some offices?

In any case, we are not yet in a position to do such a thing. But it
is something worth debating. Perhaps later on, more calmly and trying
to see all the different sides of the argument.

> You may not hold elected office from the ages of 18-20, should this
> remain?

As above, this is a question for a larger debate.

> Should we require a number of years as a taxpayer ( Property
> Requirement)?
> Should we give extra credit for those who donates money to Nova
> Roma?

I do not think that Nova Roma should step down that path. In the
past, we have seen proposal that wanted to award century points for
money donations. I don't think that it is appropriate.

Currently, Nova Roma is more or less based on merit. I'd rather have
it that way than to change merit for money.

> Should we give extra credit for those who recruit a certain number
> of new citizens in a certain period of time ?

Now that is merit :-). It would make sense.
But how could we check such a thing?

> Should we restrict how many times a person can serve as Consul?

Absolutely. When I was tribunus plebis, I presented a law that
explicitly did so. It is appropriate, and it follows Roman tradition,
so I have a big "yes" for this one.

> Should there be a requirement that a set time must have elapsed
> between Consulships

I think so.
The Roman traditional lapse was ten years. I think that we should
consider it seriously.

> Should we require a year out of office like the Romans did? ( this
> was so you could be prosecuted in the courts)

Actually, I made myself this question when I was tribunus plebis. I
drafted a law that banned prorogatio and cumulatio, so continuatio
(holding office in two consecutive years) seemed a reasonable
component. I decided that Nova Roma still had too few people for
this. But I think that we should enact such a thing in the future.

> Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators
> from running those offices in which the person or persons elected
> are awarded a Senate seat.

That is not part of Roman tradition, and I don't know if it would be
a good idea. Besides there being the problem with previous praetores
aspiring to the consulship and previous consules aspiring to the
censorship (I am sure that that was not what you were thinking
about), we might be denying the possibility of a second consulship,
for example.

> Should we require a number of earned century points in order to run
> for certain offices?

I think that such a requirement would actually be contradictory with
a Cursus Honorum. I'd rather have the Cursus Honorum.

> Are none of these question important and which ones should we ask?

Of course they are important. The Cursus Honorum was a very important
part of the Roman political construct; the way in which we try to
follow that Roman practice will shape our Republic in the future.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17148 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salvete Quirites!

I stand here before You at the Rostra in my toga candida as I hereby
declare that I will run for Censor for the year 2757 and 2758 A.U.C.

For two and a half years now, I have given many hours per day to our
Res Publica, since Nova Roma means a lot to me, I would like to give
two more years of my efforts to the administration and development of
Nova Roma. In light of this, I have decided to run for Censor.

The current Census law was partially authored by me and if I am
elected I will be able to co-organise a Census in 2758 A.U.C. using
"Lex Fabia de Censo".

I also will do my best to find ways to keep names of new citizens as
historical as possible, this will be done with every effort to comply
with our laws and the wishes of the applicants for citizenship.

The position of Censor gives little glory, but a lot of work has to
be done. I think that I, during the last two and a half years, have
proven that I am ready to dedidate the time needed to execute this
vital office in service to Nova Roma and that I am truly loyal to the
Res Publica.

==================================
If you'd like to write to me, please email

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>

All emails will be answered in the order that they are received. I
thank you in advance for your patience.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17149 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Oh Boy!!!

That is just what we need!

A Censor with a well known habit of apointing Bloated Staffs.

I Guess we can look forward to having two dozen Scribes with access to
everyone's personal records.

L. Sicinius Drusus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I stand here before You at the Rostra in my toga candida as I hereby
> declare that I will run for Censor for the year 2757 and 2758 A.U.C.
>
> For two and a half years now, I have given many hours per day to our
> Res Publica, since Nova Roma means a lot to me, I would like to give
> two more years of my efforts to the administration and development of
> Nova Roma. In light of this, I have decided to run for Censor.
>
> The current Census law was partially authored by me and if I am
> elected I will be able to co-organise a Census in 2758 A.U.C. using
> "Lex Fabia de Censo".
>
> I also will do my best to find ways to keep names of new citizens as
> historical as possible, this will be done with every effort to comply
> with our laws and the wishes of the applicants for citizenship.
>
> The position of Censor gives little glory, but a lot of work has to
> be done. I think that I, during the last two and a half years, have
> proven that I am ready to dedidate the time needed to execute this
> vital office in service to Nova Roma and that I am truly loyal to the
> Res Publica.
>
> ==================================
> If you'd like to write to me, please email
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@t...>
>
> All emails will be answered in the order that they are received. I
> thank you in advance for your patience.
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17150 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Simon Scarrow
Salve,

Has anyone read any of Simon Scarrow's books from the Eagle series? They
are excellent books about a young Optio and a Centurion during the conquest of
Britannia. There are four books. Under the Eagle, The Eagles Conquest, When
the Eagle Hunts and the Eagle and the Wolves. I am on the 3rd one. They are
very accurate as well. I highly recommend these books to all.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17151 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Latin forms of address
  I, too, would greatly appreciate being added to this List!
  Please forward this to whomever came up with this excellent idea!

Thank you,
                 Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus



-----Original Message-----
From: KECTAM@...
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 2:45 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Latin forms of address (reprise)

<tt>
Placidia Prisca - A. Apollonio Cordo SPD



Please add me to your list.  Vale et gratias tibi ago.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17152 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: what is cursus honorum?
A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Franciscus Apulus
Caesar and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm okay.

> I would like to ask to all the candidates to all
> Offices what is for
> you all the Cursus Honorum?

Candidates to all offices - I guess that means me too.
:)

A lot of what I'm going to say will have been said by
others already. I think the cursus honorum was, and
is, a desirable set of conventions, and part of its
desirability lies in its flexibility (it was only
finally made compulsory very late in the republic, I
believe).

A week or two ago I was talking to my fiancee, Fabia
Livia (who will be standing for quaestor if the senate
waives the age requirement by six days), about this,
and I suggested that Nova Roma might be ready for a
fully compulsory cursus within a couple of years -
i.e. one would have to have held the magistracy below
in order to run for the one above. Since then, the
call for candidates has gone out, and I've changed my
mind.

If we stuck to the strict cursus, only one of the
current candidates for consul would be eligible, only
one of the candidates for curule aedile would be
elibigible, and we would have no candidates for
plebeian aedile. This shows how small the pool of
available candidates would be, and of course a small
pool can sometimes (though not in this case) mean poor
quality.

Having said that, I'm more optimistic than Iulius
Scaurus: provided most of our ex-magistrates remain
active, I would hope we'd be able to move towards a
more rigid cursus in maybe five years' time.

I wonder whether you were inspired to ask this
question partly because we have a number of candidates
this year who are proposing to 'leap-frog' up the
cursus. I came close to doing the same. There are two
conflicting duties for anyone in this position: on the
one hand, the duty to keep close to the mos maiorum
and to proceed gradually up the ladder; on the other
hand, the duty to serve the republic when it is in
need of good servants. If I hadn't made up my mind so
far in advance, before I saw the early dearth of
candidates for, say, plebeian aedile, I might have
chosen the other way; as it is, I'm lucky enough to be
able to slot myself in at the proper place without
leaving any gaping holes elsewhere.

Of course, rogator wasn't part of the historical
cursus, but I'm counting it as equivalent to a
military tribunate. From there, if elected, I'll have
to take a year off anyway, so again I don't face any
tough choices. After that, I hope there will again be
enough candidates that I can continue my slow advance
without being called on to leap ahead; but that's a
long time in the future.

________________________________________________________________________
Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17153 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: PS
A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Franciscus Apulus
Caesar and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I realise I omitted to address one aspect of the
question: age requirements.

This is a tricky one, since to some extent people
nowadays mature faster than they did in the time of
the republic, and also since, unlike in those days, we
can't assume that someone who's 50 has had 50 years'
experience of living in the Roman community!

At the moment I'm inclined to say we'd be best to
stick with our existing age requirements - but then
perhaps I would say that, since I'm only 22. But
perhaps we could introduce additional requirements for
length of citizenship; for instance, one must have
been a citizen for, say, three years before running
for praetor, five years for consul, and so on. Those
numbers are just off the top of my head, but in
principle this may be a way forward.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17154 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Diania Moraviua Aventina

See?
100 e-mails, NOT 100 investigations. I told you there would be a good answer from this gentleman.
I certainly cannot fault you for the error, having done similar mistakes myself: The problem with e-mail as a medium is the lack most of our communications cues - we have only the words and can only guess at the tone or implications.
While I personally had already figured it would take more than 1 e-mail to resolve a dispute, I am surprised that it takes on average over 5 e-mails per investigation! Having spent my adult life in an office frequently handling such things, I figured:
I. Receive forwarded complaint; if complete
II. Send complaint to Vendor, who researches
III. If Vendor was in error, they agree to rectify
So some should stop at III e-mails
IV. If Vendor has proof it was sent, but not recieved then
V. Notify the compainant it was lost in the mail & to check with their P.O
Assuming the Venor is honest, it should end here, with the customer checking with the delivery people to locate their package. There may be a note of Thanks, but that's not part of the investigation, so by this reckoning it should average IV e-mails.

I. Complaint received, but incomplete
II. Write to complainant requesting more detailed information
III. Complainant responds with the additional information
IV. File complain with the Vendor
V. Vendor agrees to error, agrees to rectify.
Some should thus end with V e-mails
VI. Vendor disagrees - lost in delivery or claims no error
VII. Notify complainant to check with delivery company, or inform them of Vendors claim
Those lost en route end here at VII e-mails with customer checking with delivery company to locatae package.
VIII. Denial of any problem by Vendor results in re-filing complaint with a Manager at the Vendor
IX. Manager (almost always) agrees to provide satisfaction
This should average only about VI and a maybe fraction e-mails, since there are fewer with each level of difficulty, or should be.
Because more should be more of the first type than the second, more complicated type, this should average about V e-mails;
Why nearly half require an additional step, I do not know - maybe we have some particularly obstreperous Vendors, or some few rather dense Customers. Either way, this should explains why there are 100+ e-mails for 17 investigations.

(As should be too obvious, I spent far too much of my workdays putting together such analyses for my Managers; that's a hazard of working in an Accounting office for a major Corporation!)

Hope this clarifies things, Diana. Sorry for the gruelling detail, it's a bad habit inflicted on me by detail-minded Bosses past!
Have a Happy Turkey Day!

Vale
~ Servius Equitius


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 7:32 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata

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<tt>
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Wow! You've investigated 100 cases of problems with sales? <BR>
<BR>
No, I've investigated 17.  Those hundred e-mails represent an iterative<BR>
process involving purchasers, merchants, and in some cases the Censors.<BR>
<BR>
As for how people find me, I've assumed that the Censors sent them to<BR>
me for resolution, since they would be the first point of contact.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<BR>
Candidate for Consul<BR>
<a href="http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html">http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html</a><BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17155 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Subject: Declaration of candidacy: Q Fabius Maximus stands for Cens
Salvete Rhomanoi

For those who have already heard this announcement I am sorry to repeat it,
but it is apparent that many of you did not.
So:
I stand before you on the virtual steps of the virtual rostrum to in for
over-whitened toga <cough> too much chalk, to inform you that I will stand for the
office of Censor.
For those who do not know me, I am Quintus Fabius Maximus, a Patrician and
Paterfamilias of Gen Fabi.
I have occupied all the offices of the Cursus Honorum, save this one.
I have also had the honor of being appointed the Curule Aedileship by the
dictator, for services to Nova Roma, something I believe has never happened to
any other citizen.
I am knowledgeable about things Roman (and Greek and Byzantine for that
matter), I am a Senator, Pontiff and Proconsul of CAL, but that is really not what
the office of censor is about. The censor in Nova Roma is all about internet
access so the censor may carry out his duties.
I have a Pent IV PC with DSL at home. I have a wireless laptop which I wrote
this message on while I'm the air, and I will send it from a cell phone node
when I change planes for departure to Florence. If that is not enough I also
have a Blackberry
comm. device to that always allows me to be truly mobile, I'll am able to
check messages and reply to potential members, even on location, away from my
desk.

Being a censor in Nova Roma is akin to walking a tightrope between the
tradition of Old Rome and the changes necessary to maintain the New Rome. I believe
that
I am uniquely equipped to do both and will if I am fortunate to receive your
vote.
Thank you for listening.

Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17156 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
G. Modius Athanasius F. Galero Aureliano Secundo SPD

The way you presented this is very reasonable to me. I would be very
supportive of such an idea, and would support it within Lacus Magni as well. I am
not sold on the idea of making service in such a unit compulsory for the Cursus
Honorum, but I do see merit in the idea.

Vale:

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/26/2003 1:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:
The Legio formations that are attached to NR should not be regarded merely as
a useless appendage of reenactors. In reality, they represent a ceremonial
adjunct to our Republic. They have the potential to serve in the part of the
Yeoman of the Guard or the Swiss Guard in Rome (of course, both of those units
do have modern arms and training but are primarily ceremonial).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17157 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Servius,

>Only one in seven regular folks complain but we have pretty high standards here; I'd say only one
in seven Nova Romans WOULDN"T complain

LOL! You made a good point-- I forgot that everyone in NR is rather chatty :-)

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17158 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Contra Lex Fabia Centuriata
Salve Marinus,

> No, I've investigated 17. Those hundred e-mails represent an iterative
> process involving purchasers, merchants, and in some cases the Censors.

Ah I see. I misunderstood. I thought a 100 complaints sounded a bit high!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17159 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Salve Romans

Happy Thanksgiving ( I know most of you are not Americans but I can still wish you the best).

FYI

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

The American Thanksgiving Holiday

We have a rich tradition in our National Thanksgiving Holiday which started with the Mayflower pilgrims 100 years before our founding. 1st. President, Geo Washington, began a governmentally supported tradition and later, legal holiday, with his Public Proclamation below. A Day of Public Thanksgiving and Prayer, The Year of 1798

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor-- and Whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint committee requested me to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially in a form of government for their safety and happiness.

"Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday...to be devoted by the people of these states to the service of that great and glorious Being Who is the beneficent Author of all that was, that is, or that will be--that we may then all unite in rendering Him our sincere and humble thanks...

"And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions...to render our national Government a blessing to the people...to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations...and to bless them with good government, peace and concord. To promote the knowledge and practice of true knowledge and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of prosperity as He alone knows to be best..."

--President George Washington, 1798

The creation of a National Thanksgiving Holiday resulted from the efforts of one woman, Sarah Joseph Hale. In the Eighteen-Twenties, she began a campaign to have Congress officially establish the holiday. Mrs. Hale was a writer who wrote stories about a national day of Thanksgiving in a publication for women and many letters to public officials, including American presidents. She urged national officials them to support her idea for an acknowledged national Thanksgiving holiday.

Though support for her idea grew slowly, finally, in Eighteen Sixty-Three, President Abraham Lincoln declared the last Thursday in November to be a national holiday of Thanksgiving. At that time, we were fighting a horrendous civil war. President Lincoln particularly liked the idea of a Thanksgiving holiday that would also celebrate national unity. Later, Congress established the holiday would be celebrated every year on the fourth Thursday in November.

Each year at this time school children all over America are taught an official Thanksgiving story, and newspapers, radio, TV, and magazines devote vast amounts of time and space to it. It is all very colorful and fascinating. It is also somewhat deceiving and nearly always incomplete. This official story omits a great deal of what really happened. It is a fairy tale, a whitewashed and sanitized collection of half-truths meant to divert attention away from Thanksgiving's real meaning.

The official simplified story has the pilgrims boarding the Mayflower, coming to America and establishing the Plymouth colony in the winter of 1620-21. The first winter was hard and half the colonists die. But the survivors are hard working and tenacious, and they learn new farming techniques from the Indians. The harvest of 1621 was bountiful. The Pilgrims hold a celebration, and give thanks to God. They are grateful for the wonderful new abundant land He has given them. At least their gratitude to their Lord is repeated accurately. The official story then has the Pilgrims living more or less happily ever after, each year repeating the first Thanksgiving. Other early colonies also have hard times at first, but they soon prosper and adopt the annual tradition of giving thanks for this prosperous new land called America.

The problems with this story is that the harvest of 1621 wasn't bountiful. The colonists weren't hardworking nor tenacious. 1621 was a famine year and many of the colonists were lazy thieves in a socialistic nightmare..

In his `History of Plymouth Plantation,' the long-time governor of the colony, William Bradford, also an educated and devoted Christian founder, reported that the colonists went hungry for years mainly because they refused to work in the fields. They preferred instead to steal food from one another and the surrounding Indians. He says the colony was riddled with "corruption," and with "confusion and discontent." The crops were small because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce eatable."

In the harvest feasts of 1621 and 1622, "all had their hungry bellies filled," but only briefly. The prevailing condition during those years was not the abundance the official story claims, it was famine and death. The first "Thanksgiving" was not so much a celebration as it was the last meal of condemned men. In fact, widespread starvation was averted only because two Christian Indians who'd been kidnapped to England for several years, Squanto and ______, shared with the Pilgrims.

But in subsequent years something changed. The harvest of 1623 was different. Suddenly, "instead of famine now God gave them plenty," Bradford wrote, "and the face of things was changed, to the rejoicing of the hearts of many, for which they blessed God." Thereafter, he wrote, "any general want or famine hath not been amongst them since to this day." In fact, in 1624, so much food was produced that the colonists were able to begin exporting corn. What happened?

After the poor harvest of 1622, writes Bradford, "they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop." They began to question their form of economic organization. Since the Mayflower Compact, this had required that "all profits & benefits that are got by trade, working, fishing, or any other means" were to be placed in the common stock of the colony, and that, "all such persons as are of this colony, are to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common stock." A person was to put into the common stock all he could taking out only what he needed. They were taking their cues from the early Christian Church which practiced mutualism.

This particular idea, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", was an early form of pernicious socialism and it is why the Pilgrims starved. Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong, or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he that was weak." So, the young and strong refused to work and the total amount of food produced was never adequate.

To rectify the situation, in 1623 Bradford abolished the socialism. He gave each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they produced, or trade it away as they saw fit starting a tradition that grew and expanded throughout North America and fed the hunger that created the expansion of the USA. In simple terms, he replaced socialism with a free market, and that was the end of famines.

Many of the early groups of colonists set up socialists states, all with the same terrible results. At Jamestown, established in 1607, out of every shipload of settlers that arrived, less than half survived their first twelve months in America. Most of the work was being done by only about one-fifth of the men, the other four-fifths choosing to be parasites. In the winter of 1609-10, called "The Starving Time," the Jamestown population fell from five-hundred to sixty.

When the Jamestown colony was converted to a free market, the results were every bit as dramatic as those at Plymouth. In 1614, Colony Secretary Ralph Hamor wrote that after the switch there was "plenty of food, which every man by his own industry may easily and doth procure." He said that when the socialist system had prevailed, "we reaped not so much corn from the labors of thirty men as three men have done for themselves now." Shame Marx wasn't a better student of History.

Before these free markets were established, the colonists had nothing for which to be thankful. They were in the same situation as Ethiopians are today and the Russians were yesterday, and for the same reasons. But after free markets were established just as the Lord had ordained two thousand years ago, the resulting abundance was so dramatic that the annual Thanksgiving celebrations became common throughout the colonies, and in 1863, Thanksgiving became a national holiday.

Thus some parts of the real reason for Thanksgiving, usually deleted from the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of abundance is free markets, and we thank our God we live in a country where we can worship him and enjoy the abundance that flows from His plan!

PL Booth

Blue Eye, MO


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17160 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum
Salve

And people wonder why I joined this gens.

Thank You Cousin.

I had not thought this out as far as you have.

Vale

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: patrick.owen@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum


F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to G. Modius Athanasius. Salve.

The Legio formations that are attached to NR should not be regarded merely as a useless appendage of reenactors. In reality, they represent a ceremonial adjunct to our Republic. They have the potential to serve in the part of the Yeoman of the Guard or the Swiss Guard in Rome (of course, both of those units do have modern arms and training but are primarily ceremonial).
NR could form an Urban Cohort trained to act as security, crowd control, and fire watch at NR related events. They could be equipped in the manner of the original urban cohorts with military tunics, helmets, sandals, military belts, swords, and clubs (with the addition of radios & fire extinguishers). Their training program could be established by the Consuls in discussion with the most appropriate persons and then a lex could establish the cohort as an actual legal entity with a TO&E.
Each province could establish its own formation (maxmimum of ten vigiles commanded a tessarius or decurion) under the authority of the provincial governor and the Senate. Each squad would be required to meet up once or twice a year for square-bashing, security/fire safety/first aid training, unarmed combat, and other instruction. Each century would meet every one or two years for a combined training-ceremonial weekend. Each macronational/ continental division would be organized as a century led by a centurion or optio (the latter if less than a certain percentage of vigiles). These officers to be elected by the vigiles and approved by the provincial governor. The whole organization being headed by two elected magistrates (not in the same macronational country) to act as praefects or tribunis militaris. The post could be open to both patricians and plebians but the candidate must have served as a vigiles who has undergone the training program or helped design it (policemen, firemen, rescue workers, private security, military police, etc).
This would create the possibility for the cursus honorum to include a para-military aspect that would focus on actual service to the Republic, provide a ceremonial unit specifically under the authority of the Republic, and formed from the body of the Republic. Vale.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17161 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Salve FCGA aka everybody's favorite Uncle,

> Do I smell sarcasm?
Nah, more like 'huh'? I 'assumed' 100 emails meant 100 complaints. (What's that old Odd Couple thng?
"To assume makes an ass out of u and me."?

>Would you like some cream to go with those claws, felinae?

I only have little manicured claws :-) But I'll pass on the cream-- my cat loves it and it is hard
enough to sit here and type without him licking it off my fingers :-) He is sitting on my lap now
and purring, as usual.

< If I didn't know the two of you better, I'd swear that this looks like a pair of candidates being
snide to one another before an election.

Hey now, Marinus and I are on quite friendly terms-- and I'll do my best to keep it that way because
just like Gnaeus Salix, neither of us are going to disappear from NR. It doesn't mean that we can't
comment at all to eachother though! We are competing after all.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17162 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve Thanks to everybody who is taking part in a great discussion

TGP Said Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators from running those offices in which the person or persons elected are awarded a Senate seat.


GSA That is not part of Roman tradition, and I don't know if it would be
a good idea. Besides there being the problem with previous praetors
aspiring to the consulship and previous consuls aspiring to the
censorship (I am sure that that was not what you were thinking
about), we might be denying the possibility of a second consulship,
for example.

TGP In Rome Election as Quaestor put you on the backbenches of the Senate where you listened and learned.
In Nova Roma election as Praetor puts you in the Senate but we have candidates bypassing the Praetorship to run for Consul ( not a criticism it is currently legal).

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the Curusus Honorum


Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tiberi Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> Fr. Apulus Caesar has started a very good discussion on the Cursus
> Honorum. I would like to take it a step further and suggest that we
> start to think and discuss legislation that would require adherence
> to this. Some of the question we might consider.
>
> Would it be desirable to do this in Nova Roma?

We already have a certain form of Cursus Honorum established through
our laws. Would it be desirable to bring the Novoroman Cursus Honorum
closer to its historical counterpart? That is a good question for a
good debate on pros and cons.

> What steps up the Cursus Honorum would be required and which ones,
> if any would be optional.

I guess that, in any case, the "steps" should follow Roman practice.
That is: quaestor-aedilis-praetor-consul-censor. That's the only
reasonable way to do such a thing.

> With no Nova Roman military obligation what would be an appropriate
> substitution, if any.

It is true that some Roman magistracies had a military signification
as well as a civil one, but I wouldn't strictly consider that
a "militart obligation". Power over the army was linked to imperium,
and not the other way round.

> The Romans had higher age requirement than we do, should we
> increase them, keep them the same or reduce them for some offices?

In any case, we are not yet in a position to do such a thing. But it
is something worth debating. Perhaps later on, more calmly and trying
to see all the different sides of the argument.

> You may not hold elected office from the ages of 18-20, should this
> remain?

As above, this is a question for a larger debate.

> Should we require a number of years as a taxpayer ( Property
> Requirement)?
> Should we give extra credit for those who donates money to Nova
> Roma?

I do not think that Nova Roma should step down that path. In the
past, we have seen proposal that wanted to award century points for
money donations. I don't think that it is appropriate.

Currently, Nova Roma is more or less based on merit. I'd rather have
it that way than to change merit for money.

> Should we give extra credit for those who recruit a certain number
> of new citizens in a certain period of time ?

Now that is merit :-). It would make sense.
But how could we check such a thing?

> Should we restrict how many times a person can serve as Consul?

Absolutely. When I was tribunus plebis, I presented a law that
explicitly did so. It is appropriate, and it follows Roman tradition,
so I have a big "yes" for this one.

> Should there be a requirement that a set time must have elapsed
> between Consulships

I think so.
The Roman traditional lapse was ten years. I think that we should
consider it seriously.

> Should we require a year out of office like the Romans did? ( this
> was so you could be prosecuted in the courts)

Actually, I made myself this question when I was tribunus plebis. I
drafted a law that banned prorogatio and cumulatio, so continuatio
(holding office in two consecutive years) seemed a reasonable
component. I decided that Nova Roma still had too few people for
this. But I think that we should enact such a thing in the future.

> Should a requirement be established that keeps sitting Senators
> from running those offices in which the person or persons elected
> are awarded a Senate seat.

That is not part of Roman tradition, and I don't know if it would be
a good idea. Besides there being the problem with previous praetores
aspiring to the consulship and previous consules aspiring to the
censorship (I am sure that that was not what you were thinking
about), we might be denying the possibility of a second consulship,
for example.

> Should we require a number of earned century points in order to run
> for certain offices?

I think that such a requirement would actually be contradictory with
a Cursus Honorum. I'd rather have the Cursus Honorum.

> Are none of these question important and which ones should we ask?

Of course they are important. The Cursus Honorum was a very important
part of the Roman political construct; the way in which we try to
follow that Roman practice will shape our Republic in the future.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17163 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Salvete quirites,

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> Hey now, Marinus and I are on quite friendly terms--
> and I'll do my best to keep it that way because
> just like Gnaeus Salix, neither of us are going to
> disappear from NR.

Exactly. All three of us are going to be around for
the forseeable future, and no matter who holds what
particular office when, we're all going to have to
work together. Thus far I think we've all held pretty
well to the high road in this campaign, and I appreciate
that.

Diana asked a question. I answered it. If it should
work out that she and I are next year's Consuls, we're
going to be asking each other a whole lot of questions
as the year goes by. I hope that we will always be so
cordial.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17164 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Quintus Fabius Maximus for Censor
Salve Romans

We now have two candidates for Censor.

I would like to announce my support for the election of Quintus Fabius Maximus . I have had the honor of meeting our former Consul in person and find him to be a man of integrity and vast experience in Nova Roma and in the macro world. While he and I do not always see things the same way, I trust him to tell the truth, explain his position and to listen to other points of view. I believe he has show that he has the time to devote to Nova Roma and he is the only candidate to serve in all the offices leading up to the office of Censor.

I believe the Republic will be best served if you elect Quintus Fabius Maximus Censor.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova Roma Main List
Cc: NR Announce ; Titus Labienus Fortunatus ; Titus Octavius Pius
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor


Salvete Quirites!

I stand here before You at the Rostra in my toga candida as I hereby
declare that I will run for Censor for the year 2757 and 2758 A.U.C.

For two and a half years now, I have given many hours per day to our
Res Publica, since Nova Roma means a lot to me, I would like to give
two more years of my efforts to the administration and development of
Nova Roma. In light of this, I have decided to run for Censor.

The current Census law was partially authored by me and if I am
elected I will be able to co-organise a Census in 2758 A.U.C. using
"Lex Fabia de Censo".

I also will do my best to find ways to keep names of new citizens as
historical as possible, this will be done with every effort to comply
with our laws and the wishes of the applicants for citizenship.

The position of Censor gives little glory, but a lot of work has to
be done. I think that I, during the last two and a half years, have
proven that I am ready to dedidate the time needed to execute this
vital office in service to Nova Roma and that I am truly loyal to the
Res Publica.

==================================
If you'd like to write to me, please email

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>

All emails will be answered in the order that they are received. I
thank you in advance for your patience.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17165 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Cursus Honorum Militum
Salve G. Modius Athanasius

I hope I did not give you the wrong impression, I was in no way inferring we should role play in terms of the Cursus Honorum but to render service to our sponsored legio.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: the Curusus Honorum Militum


G. Modius Athanasius F. Galero Aureliano Secundo SPD

The way you presented this is very reasonable to me. I would be very
supportive of such an idea, and would support it within Lacus Magni as well. I am
not sold on the idea of making service in such a unit compulsory for the Cursus
Honorum, but I do see merit in the idea.

Vale:

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 11/26/2003 1:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:
The Legio formations that are attached to NR should not be regarded merely as
a useless appendage of reenactors. In reality, they represent a ceremonial
adjunct to our Republic. They have the potential to serve in the part of the
Yeoman of the Guard or the Swiss Guard in Rome (of course, both of those units
do have modern arms and training but are primarily ceremonial).


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17166 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tiberi Galeri Pauline.

I said:
That is not part of Roman tradition, and I don't know if it would be
a good idea. Besides there being the problem with previous praetors
aspiring to the consulship and previous consuls aspiring to the
censorship (I am sure that that was not what you were thinking
about), we might be denying the possibility of a second consulship,
for example.

And T. Galerius replied:
In Rome Election as Quaestor put you on the backbenches of the Senate
where you listened and learned.
In Nova Roma election as Praetor puts you in the Senate but we have
candidates bypassing the Praetorship to run for Consul ( not a
criticism it is currently legal).

To which I now reply:
That is a completely different issue.
Would it be desiderable to include our lower magistrates into the
Senate, perhaps as pedarii? Well, I think that that is an idea worth
considering. It would be a step towards forming a more traditional
Senate. And it could certainly help our new magistrates to learn a
couple of things about how Nova Roma is run.
I am sure, of course, that there will be people that will be able to
find some drawbacks to this idea, so perhaps we should think about
discussing this longer and deeper after the elections, when we can
cocentrate on these issues.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17167 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 16:10, Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:

> > I think he quote "to err is human, to forgive divine" comes from
> > Alexander Pope, whose inpiration was Horace.I forget where he said it,
> > it was probably in The Essay on Man but it might have been The Dunciad.
>
> Hmm, I wonder where (and what) in Horace he stole, I mean borrowed. :)
> It would be interesting to compare the two quotes. The last time, G.
> Iulius Scaurus provided a couple of references that made for a while of
> happy digging in the classics...
>
Salvete,

Pope imitated loads of things from The Odes, (particulary Book 3) but he
did credit the source. read An Epistle to Dr. Arbuthnot-
"let peals of laughter, Codrus, around thee break,
thou unconcerned canst hear the mightly crack,
pit, box and gallery in convulsions hurled,
thou stoodst unshook amidst a bursting world"
an then ;
"si fractus illabatur orbis,
impavidum ferient ruinae"

(if the whole world should break, he'd be undaunted as it collapsed.
Addison's translation is (much much) better than mine: "Should the whole
frame of nature round him break, in ruin and convulsion hurled, He,
unconcerned, would hear the mighty crack, and stand secure amidst a
falling world").

The "heroic couplet" was Horace's style too. Probably why I like Pope's
work so much, it's Horace reheated for English speakers with Pope's
usual vitriol, wit and faultless style. </end rant>

G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17168 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> That is just what we need!
>
> A Censor with a well known habit of apointing Bloated Staffs.

Yes, it is just what we need. The Censors' job is a large one, and
a large staff can be extremely hepful.

> I Guess we can look forward to having two dozen Scribes with access to
> everyone's personal records.

Each scribe will have whatever access the Censores deem necessary. I
am perfectly capable of limiting the access of any individual to only
selected tools.

I fully support the candidacy of Caeso Fabius and will welcome him as my
colleague next year. Anyone who he chooses to bring with him will be
provided with whatever access is necessary for their assigned task,
and no more.

Vale, Octavius.
Supporter of CAESO FOR CENSOR.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17169 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:

> Yes, it is just what we need. The Censors' job is a large one, and
> a large staff can be extremely hepful.

OH GODS!!

You didn't have to tell him that!!

Now we really will have the Censorial Cohort in fact as well as in
jest, and three dozen Scribes on the Comitee from the Office of the
Comission that handles Citizen data.

or.....

We could elect a Censor who has the skills to do the job without the
services of a Byzanthian staff, a far safer way of safegaurding
citizen's privacy.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17170 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
> We could elect a Censor who has the skills to do the job without the
> services of a Byzanthian staff, a far safer way of safegaurding
> citizen's privacy.

Skills? Caeso Fabius Quintilianus certainly has the skills. As the
creator of all the tools the Censores of the past four years have used,
I think I'm qualified to know.

Moreover, he is skilled at dealing many different people - for what
other kind of person could have amassed such a large cohort? The
position calls for someone who is attentive, responsive, helpful,
and flexible; I have found Caeso to be all of these things.

Those are his skills.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17171 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
In a message dated 11/26/03 3:09:20 PM, christer.edling@... writes:

<< I would like to give
two more years of my efforts to the administration and development of
Nova Roma. In light of this, I have decided to run for Censor.

Oh now that figures. We are both standing for Censor...
After your busy year shouldn't you take a year off and recuperate?
Remember as Censor, you cannot appoint a large staff, since it is not a curule
magistracy. You have no imperium.

The current Census law was partially authored by me and if I am
elected I will be able to co-organise a Census in 2758 A.U.C. using
"Lex Fabia de Censo".

I also will do my best to find ways to keep names of new citizens as
historical as possible, this will be done with every effort to comply
with our laws and the wishes of the applicants for citizenship. >>

Oh, I didn't realize we were to talk about our records. Hmmm.
Ok. I have been involved almost every controversy here in NR.
I have been here from August 98, and have been involved in the Roman
political scene ever since. I was instrumental in bringing dues to NR, worked on the
law committee, helped the dictator with his writing the new constitution. As
Consul I made on line stalking of Citizens illegal, started the ball rolling
on leges which Consuls Vedius and
Cassius completed.
As Curule Aedile I regularized the virtual gaming started by Plebian Aedile
A. Gryllus,
and as Pontiff, researched the Blasphemy Dec. for the Pontifix Maximus Marcus
Cassius
and helped him write it. As for Roman names I read Latin and I have a list
of Roman nicknames from the early and middle republic. I am friends with most
of the influential Romans here as well as if that might be important to the
voters.
I have only have one assistant in all my magistracies. I don't believe in
doling out pork to be popular.

Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17172 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
>
> > We could elect a Censor who has the skills to do the job without the
> > services of a Byzanthian staff, a far safer way of safegaurding
> > citizen's privacy.
>
> Skills? Caeso Fabius Quintilianus certainly has the skills. As the
> creator of all the tools the Censores of the past four years have used,
> I think I'm qualified to know.
>
> Moreover, he is skilled at dealing many different people - for what
> other kind of person could have amassed such a large cohort? The
> position calls for someone who is attentive, responsive, helpful,
> and flexible; I have found Caeso to be all of these things.
>

In the past few days I have noticed his skills at
misdirecting E-Mail, His skills at calling for voting
in a Comitia meeting to start the day before the
meeting was announced, and his skills at calling for a
July Meeting of the Senate in November.

I really would prefer someone who pays a little more
attention to detail handling my private information.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17173 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> I really would prefer someone who pays a little more
> attention to detail handling my private information.

Anyone can copy a previous message to use as a template
and forget to change the date. That is insignificant.

But Caeso Fabius does have skills that will serve him very well
as Censor. He is skilled at dealing with all sorts of different
people, being likeable and personable, and treating all applicants
as if their problems were of great importance. Caeso is a
teacher, a job that gives him the opportunity to interact with
people that depend on him - for education, guidance, and emotional
support - each and every day.

I do not have those abilities to anywhere near extent that
Caeso Fabius has. I am a Unix geek and a curmudgeon. While I
am capable of doing massive transformations on the citizen data
with great precision, I consider Caeso much more suitable than
I to answer citizen queries quickly and diplomatically. Caeso's
skills will mesh together perfectly with mine; he will be the
"front end" of the team and I will be the "back end".

Unlike any other election taking place next month, the election for
Censor is about fitting a candidate into an existing team, with
a colleague and several scribae already in place. Caeso will
be a welcome addition to that team.

Vale, Octavius.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17174 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salve Censor Octavius.

"Unlike any other election taking place next month, the election for Censor is about fitting a candidate into an existing team, with a colleague and several scribae already in place. Caeso will be a welcome addition to that team."

With all due respect you can endorse anybody you like but the citizens will decide this and I think you should keep that in mind. This election is more than "fitting a candidate into an existing team" it is about the citizens of Nova Roma electing the best candidate for the job, and that might not be the same as your personal choice.

I would hope that anybody the voters elect as your colleague "will be a welcome addition to that team."


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate For Tribune

( I hope my personal information doesn't disappear into cyberspace VBG)
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor


L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> I really would prefer someone who pays a little more
> attention to detail handling my private information.

Anyone can copy a previous message to use as a template
and forget to change the date. That is insignificant.

But Caeso Fabius does have skills that will serve him very well
as Censor. He is skilled at dealing with all sorts of different
people, being likeable and personable, and treating all applicants
as if their problems were of great importance. Caeso is a
teacher, a job that gives him the opportunity to interact with
people that depend on him - for education, guidance, and emotional
support - each and every day.

I do not have those abilities to anywhere near extent that
Caeso Fabius has. I am a Unix geek and a curmudgeon. While I
am capable of doing massive transformations on the citizen data
with great precision, I consider Caeso much more suitable than
I to answer citizen queries quickly and diplomatically. Caeso's
skills will mesh together perfectly with mine; he will be the
"front end" of the team and I will be the "back end".

Unlike any other election taking place next month, the election for
Censor is about fitting a candidate into an existing team, with
a colleague and several scribae already in place. Caeso will
be a welcome addition to that team.

Vale, Octavius.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17175 From: C. Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Test Message
Test!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17176 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: the Curusus Honorum
Salve, Cousin

As a cerified Gimp, I must object to this. I can barely get around with the use of a stick and have almost zip carrying capacity. On the other hand, I'd be whiz-bang at Supervising the Hale & Healthy with strong backs & legs (& poke them with my stick if they try slacking!). That's how I get my room-mates to get things done, anyway, and I DO poke a mean stick!
So long as you take ability into mind, then fine with me.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 8:49 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: the Curusus Honorum

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar who said in part<BR>
<BR>
"I agree with you about the military obligation and the transformation <BR>
in a timocracy, but if he want a historically correct system we have <BR>
to find a substitution because in Ancient Rome the service in the <BR>
army was an important step in the growing of the man. The young <BR>
learned the structure, made own forma mentis and increased own <BR>
knowledge's. In NR what give the same to our young politics?"<BR>
<BR>
TGP We could require a term of service in one of the Legio , if for some reason you cannot re-enact then you drive the equipment from place to place, be a general helper.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17177 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Cousin Flavi

I was an Auditor in an Accounting Office of a major corporation my entire adult life until recently. If you need any Auditing done, anyone in Government only needs to ask. I'm available.

Vale
Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 9:00 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: To Diana & Marinus

<html><body>


<tt>
Diana & Marinus,<BR>
<BR>
Do I smell sarcasm?  Would you like some cream to go with those claws, felinae?  If I didn't know the two of you better, I'd swear that this looks like a pair of candidates being snide to one another before an election.  Of course, I know better since both of you are (seriously) good and respectful citizens and magistrates who would not be doing such things in the public forum where it might be misconstrued by the general populous.  This is definitely a matter to be discussed by the appropriate magistrates privately since there is so much room for speculation.  If there were 100 complaints, were they filed by 100 persons or a handful of seriously disgruntled persons?  Were there actually 700 transactions conducted or a handful of communications that went awry?  Were the complaints directed at a single member of the marcellum or a number?  Were some of the complaints due to the slowness of shipping or communications breakdown or whatever?<BR>
I believe that whoever is elected to the Consulship in this upcoming election will have to appoint someone to seriously look into the Marcellum & the way it operates and contributes to the NR Treasury.  I hope that whoever those citizens are that they will have all that is fortunate, proper, happy, and appropriate come to them. Vale.<BR>
<BR>
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17178 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve & Thank You!

That's what makes this such an interesting List, & very educational. Seems some of my Public School teachers were generalizing a bit. Thanks for the real facts of the situation. Still, poor guy - thankless job indeed! & it killed him.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walzer <jwalzer5@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 5:50 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
    Salve Servius Equitius et salvete omnes:<BR>
<BR>
  > Too poor to buy the bloody siege gun himself, the gunmaker sold it to the Invaders (& they > say Americans will do anything for a buck!).  That spelled the end for the famous walls -<BR>
  > while there were Churches covered in gold!  The irony is priceless.  <BR>
<BR>
      Actually, by 1425, 28 years before the final collapse, Constantinople, which had never fully recovered from the sack of 1204, was in a pretty pathetic state of disrepair.  One history notes: "...by 1425 the inhabitants are unlikely to have numbered more than 50,000, and may well have been considerably less. ...her trade had been taken over lock, stock and barrel by the Venetians and the Genoese.  The coinage, already debased, was devalued again and again and the system of food distribution was on the point of collapse.  The people were thus chronically undernourished and their low resistance to disease caused one epidemic after another to rage unchecked through the city.  The simultaneous lack of manpower and of money made it impossible to keep the buildings in repair.  Nearly all were by now seriously dilapidated. Many of the churches were little more than empty shells.  Constantine's great Hippodrome, rapidly falling into ruin, was used as a polo ground.  Even the imperial Palace of Blachernae was crumbling."<BR>
<BR>
      In 1403 a merchant had written, "Despite its size and the huge circuit of its walls, [Constantinople] is poorly populated; for in the midst of it are a number of hills and valleys on which there are fields of corn and vineyards and many orchards; and in these cultivated areas the houses are clustered together like villages; and this is in the midst of the city.  The inhabitants are not well clad but are poor and shabby."<BR>
<BR>
      Poor Constantine XI probably wished he had had churches covered in gold and other precious metals.  Instead it was his thankless task to reign for five years over what had become little more than a feeble remnant of a great city.<BR>
<BR>
      Vale.<BR>
<BR>
      L. Suetonius Nerva<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17179 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> With all due respect you can endorse anybody you like but the citizens
> will decide this and I think you should keep that in mind.

Certainly! That is what a Republic is all about. My preference for Caeso,
and my prediction that he will "fit into an existing team" better, are only
a few of many factors the voters will consider.

> I would hope that anybody the voters elect as your colleague
> "will be a welcome addition to that team."

No matter who is elected, I will do my best to work with that person
in harmony.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17180 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
HaHaHaHaHaHaTeeHeeChortleGuffawCoughChokeTurnRed

"Home of the Meddlers"?! Not as poetic as my interpretation, but politically more accurate - the Byzantines were notorius meddlers, unless my teachers got that wrong too!

~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 12:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
Hash: SHA1<BR>
<BR>
Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:<BR>
| So, given that we've had these great explanations telling<BR>
| us all the whys, wherefores, and shades of meanings (thank<BR>
| you, Hiera Cassia!), what does "Miklagård" mean?<BR>
<BR>
Salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.<BR>
<BR>
Two parts, "mikla" and "gård". Gård means something along the lines of<BR>
"house, stead, farm, home", so Miklagård is probably "Home of the<BR>
Miklas"...as to mikla, I'm far from sure. The closest word we've got<BR>
today is slang, and means approximately "fiddle with, meddle".<BR>
<BR>
So Miklagård could conceivably mean "Home of the meddlers". I'm fairly<BR>
sure this isn't right, but it's an interesting thought. :)<BR>
<BR>
I looked up the term and it seems to refer not only to Constantinople<BR>
but also the entire Byzantine empire.<BR>
<BR>
And that's all I have to say about that.<BR>
<BR>
Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
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iD8DBQE/xOjEAGtgaSonkUoRAqw3AJ4g7Xg/EzSzfm9fQgPrGtSsHyLHkQCfYwTQ<BR>
3hqWktpZPPBOHuiHdCxkoqw=<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17181 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: R
Salve Censor

Thank You , that is all one can expect.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor


Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> With all due respect you can endorse anybody you like but the citizens
> will decide this and I think you should keep that in mind.

Certainly! That is what a Republic is all about. My preference for Caeso,
and my prediction that he will "fit into an existing team" better, are only
a few of many factors the voters will consider.

> I would hope that anybody the voters elect as your colleague
> "will be a welcome addition to that team."

No matter who is elected, I will do my best to work with that person
in harmony.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17182 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
have not read it, good I assume ;)

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus" <hermeticagnosis@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy


Salve!

Have you ever read Guy Gavriel Kay's "Sailing to Serantium"? Now THAT'S
Art!!

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
I remember reading about a proposed film called Byzantium which would
deal<BR>
with the Eastern Empire. I think it was an intended Trilogy. I am not
sure<BR>
whatever happened with that.<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a
href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/ponte
central/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:14 AM<BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
> Hash: SHA1<BR>
><BR>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:<BR>
> | Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the<BR>
> | Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman<BR>
> | Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.<BR>
><BR>
> Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.<BR>
><BR>
> Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to
get<BR>
> you through:<BR>
> <a
href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344
994/</a><BR>
><BR>
> It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on IMDB.<BR>
> Available through amazon or wherever. :)<BR>
><BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR>
><BR>
> - --<BR>
><BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)<BR>
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - <a
href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a><BR>
><BR>
> iD8DBQE/w3HYAGtgaSonkUoRAqq3AJ9NU+ORyDw4Isxve0m/nl2dNmv91ACfTS5O<BR>
> 1B58nfdGCfCiEJ//2kHEFGg=<BR>
> =q0Lp<BR>
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>
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> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
> ADVERTISEMENT<BR>
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m/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116730" alt=""><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/yhoo1103_b_300250A.gif"
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17183 From: C. Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2003-11-26
Subject: Test Again!
Sorry!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17184 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Notes on the Kalkriese Style Lorica Segmentata
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

"Notes on the Kalkriese Style Lorica Segmentata":

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/kalklor.html

Matthew Amt at the Legio XX website provides an excellent discussion
of the problems of reconstructing the lorica segmentata from remains
found at the site of the Claudes Variana.

And "The Kalkriese Lorica Segmentata:An Archaeological Reconstruction
of Early Roman Plate Armour":

http://mysite.freeserve.com/kalkriese

Hilary Travis (Univ. of Liverpool), brings the expertise of an
archaeologist and preservationist to the problem of reconstructing
Augustan-period armour.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17185 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salvete Omnes et Quintilianus,

I give my full support and vote to my dear friend and our wonderful
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus as candidate for the Censorship.

Vote Quintilianus and Nova Roma will continue to grow!

Amice, congratulations and good luck for your elections.
We talked in the past with other our friends about how the job of
Censor could be improved to give a best and fast service to the new
citizens. I'm sure you and Germanicus will make a wonderful job and
I offer you my help if you would like it.

About your staff, don't worry, some gentlemen don't know what are
your skills and experiences. I prefer a big cohors for a good
service than just a very busy (in the dauly life and in NR) man
unable to serve well.

Good Luck, Amice!

Vale
FR. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17186 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: PAYPAL VIRUS WARNING!
Salvete omnes,

I was having a talk with my internet server, Datacorp out of Alberta
and they warned me that there is a Paypal notification coming in the
emails saying "Important Information about account upgrades. Delete
this notification becaust there is a virus out to get you in the
attachment. I recieved this Paypal notification in my regular email
and in Yahoo mail. Fortunately I smelled a rat and deleted her
without going to the file. Apparently it went around a month or so
ago but reappeared again. Similarily I recieved a notification from
my server saying my account was about up; knowing it is good until
next may I phoned them and found out the mail was indeed bogus. You
will do well to delete any of these notifications.

Regards!

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17187 From: Joel Baumgartner Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Other Bogus Mail...
Salvete Omnes...

If you use Yahoo! mail, take care not to fall for a scam. Someone bought a
domain titled www.yahoo-billing.com which is rather horrendous. They tell
you that your billing has changed and that you need to update your billing
information. The site asks for a user name and password, First Name,
Mother's Maiden Name, Last Name, ZIP Code, Debit or Credit Card #,
Expiration Date, CVV code, Bank routing number, Checking account number,
and Debit/ATM PIN #. If you recieve an email from them, do not do anything.

I have reported this site to Yahoo, and to the site's Host, Network
Solutions. However, Network Solutions says it is not their job to police the
actions of websites they host. So I am gonna take action.

In any case, beware all.

Valete

Quintus Caelius Urbanus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17188 From: Christopher L. Wood Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving
Great article Paulinus! My compliments to Mr. Booth. The lessons of history
are always there for those who wish to seek them.

If anyone is wondering, the other Indian who helped the Pilgrims was
Samoset,
who came from what is now Maine. Squanto's Indian name was "Tisquantum".

Tiberius Ambrosius Silvus
A happy thanksgiving to all!

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 November, 2003 3:34 PM
To: Nova-Roma
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Happy Thanksgiving


Salve Romans

Happy Thanksgiving ( I know most of you are not Americans but I can still
wish you the best).

FYI

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

The American Thanksgiving Holiday

We have a rich tradition in our National Thanksgiving Holiday which started
with the Mayflower pilgrims 100 years before our founding. 1st. President,
Geo Washington, began a governmentally supported tradition and later, legal
holiday, with his Public Proclamation below. A Day of Public Thanksgiving
and Prayer, The Year of 1798

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly
implore His protection and favor-- and Whereas both Houses of Congress have
by their joint committee requested me to recommend to the people of the
United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by
acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God,
especially in a form of government for their safety and happiness.

"Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday...to be devoted by the
people of these states to the service of that great and glorious Being Who
is the beneficent Author of all that was, that is, or that will be--that we
may then all unite in rendering Him our sincere and humble thanks...

"And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and
supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of nations, and beseech Him to
pardon our national and other transgressions...to render our national
Government a blessing to the people...to protect and guide all sovereigns
and nations...and to bless them with good government, peace and concord. To
promote the knowledge and practice of true knowledge and virtue, and the
increase of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all
mankind such a degree of prosperity as He alone knows to be best..."

--President George Washington, 1798

The creation of a National Thanksgiving Holiday resulted from the efforts of
one woman, Sarah Joseph Hale. In the Eighteen-Twenties, she began a campaign
to have Congress officially establish the holiday. Mrs. Hale was a writer
who wrote stories about a national day of Thanksgiving in a publication for
women and many letters to public officials, including American presidents.
She urged national officials them to support her idea for an acknowledged
national Thanksgiving holiday.

Though support for her idea grew slowly, finally, in Eighteen Sixty-Three,
President Abraham Lincoln declared the last Thursday in November to be a
national holiday of Thanksgiving. At that time, we were fighting a
horrendous civil war. President Lincoln particularly liked the idea of a
Thanksgiving holiday that would also celebrate national unity. Later,
Congress established the holiday would be celebrated every year on the
fourth Thursday in November.

Each year at this time school children all over America are taught an
official Thanksgiving story, and newspapers, radio, TV, and magazines devote
vast amounts of time and space to it. It is all very colorful and
fascinating. It is also somewhat deceiving and nearly always incomplete.
This official story omits a great deal of what really happened. It is a
fairy tale, a whitewashed and sanitized collection of half-truths meant to
divert attention away from Thanksgiving's real meaning.

The official simplified story has the pilgrims boarding the Mayflower,
coming to America and establishing the Plymouth colony in the winter of
1620-21. The first winter was hard and half the colonists die. But the
survivors are hard working and tenacious, and they learn new farming
techniques from the Indians. The harvest of 1621 was bountiful. The Pilgrims
hold a celebration, and give thanks to God. They are grateful for the
wonderful new abundant land He has given them. At least their gratitude to
their Lord is repeated accurately. The official story then has the Pilgrims
living more or less happily ever after, each year repeating the first
Thanksgiving. Other early colonies also have hard times at first, but they
soon prosper and adopt the annual tradition of giving thanks for this
prosperous new land called America.

The problems with this story is that the harvest of 1621 wasn't bountiful.
The colonists weren't hardworking nor tenacious. 1621 was a famine year and
many of the colonists were lazy thieves in a socialistic nightmare..

In his `History of Plymouth Plantation,' the long-time governor of the
colony, William Bradford, also an educated and devoted Christian founder,
reported that the colonists went hungry for years mainly because they
refused to work in the fields. They preferred instead to steal food from one
another and the surrounding Indians. He says the colony was riddled with
"corruption," and with "confusion and discontent." The crops were small
because "much was stolen both by night and day, before it became scarce
eatable."

In the harvest feasts of 1621 and 1622, "all had their hungry bellies
filled," but only briefly. The prevailing condition during those years was
not the abundance the official story claims, it was famine and death. The
first "Thanksgiving" was not so much a celebration as it was the last meal
of condemned men. In fact, widespread starvation was averted only because
two Christian Indians who'd been kidnapped to England for several years,
Squanto and ______, shared with the Pilgrims.

But in subsequent years something changed. The harvest of 1623 was
different. Suddenly, "instead of famine now God gave them plenty," Bradford
wrote, "and the face of things was changed, to the rejoicing of the hearts
of many, for which they blessed God." Thereafter, he wrote, "any general
want or famine hath not been amongst them since to this day." In fact, in
1624, so much food was produced that the colonists were able to begin
exporting corn. What happened?

After the poor harvest of 1622, writes Bradford, "they began to think how
they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop." They
began to question their form of economic organization. Since the Mayflower
Compact, this had required that "all profits & benefits that are got by
trade, working, fishing, or any other means" were to be placed in the common
stock of the colony, and that, "all such persons as are of this colony, are
to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common
stock." A person was to put into the common stock all he could taking out
only what he needed. They were taking their cues from the early Christian
Church which practiced mutualism.

This particular idea, "from each according to his ability, to each according
to his need", was an early form of pernicious socialism and it is why the
Pilgrims starved. Bradford writes that "young men that are most able and fit
for labor and service" complained about being forced to "spend their time
and strength to work for other men's wives and children." Also, "the strong,
or man of parts, had no more in division of victuals and clothes, than he
that was weak." So, the young and strong refused to work and the total
amount of food produced was never adequate.

To rectify the situation, in 1623 Bradford abolished the socialism. He gave
each household a parcel of land and told them they could keep what they
produced, or trade it away as they saw fit starting a tradition that grew
and expanded throughout North America and fed the hunger that created the
expansion of the USA. In simple terms, he replaced socialism with a free
market, and that was the end of famines.

Many of the early groups of colonists set up socialists states, all with the
same terrible results. At Jamestown, established in 1607, out of every
shipload of settlers that arrived, less than half survived their first
twelve months in America. Most of the work was being done by only about
one-fifth of the men, the other four-fifths choosing to be parasites. In the
winter of 1609-10, called "The Starving Time," the Jamestown population fell
from five-hundred to sixty.

When the Jamestown colony was converted to a free market, the results were
every bit as dramatic as those at Plymouth. In 1614, Colony Secretary Ralph
Hamor wrote that after the switch there was "plenty of food, which every man
by his own industry may easily and doth procure." He said that when the
socialist system had prevailed, "we reaped not so much corn from the labors
of thirty men as three men have done for themselves now." Shame Marx wasn't
a better student of History.

Before these free markets were established, the colonists had nothing for
which to be thankful. They were in the same situation as Ethiopians are
today and the Russians were yesterday, and for the same reasons. But after
free markets were established just as the Lord had ordained two thousand
years ago, the resulting abundance was so dramatic that the annual
Thanksgiving celebrations became common throughout the colonies, and in
1863, Thanksgiving became a national holiday.

Thus some parts of the real reason for Thanksgiving, usually deleted from
the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of
abundance is free markets, and we thank our God we live in a country where
we can worship him and enjoy the abundance that flows from His plan!

PL Booth

Blue Eye, MO


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17189 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Salvete Omnes,
FOX News, CNN, and MSNBC are reporting President Bush made a totally
secret visit to Baghdad today. He had Thanksgiving Dinner with 600
U.S. Troop's, U.S. Provisional Authority Head Paul Bremer, and members
of the Iraqi Provisional Council.


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

--
AIM: KSDeist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17190 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Salvete
Based on interesting comments by Censor Octavius that he gets along better
with CFQ rather than QFM. Romans instituted the duel censorship so that the
censors could carryout their duties throughout the city and later the country,
efficiently. The burden was on the Roman citizen to cooperate, not that the
censors had to cooperate which other.
If Octavius is good friends with Fabius, great. However it is not like they
see each other each day, nor that they need to.

I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have to get
along with many nationalities, in many more languages more so then any number CFQ
ever had to deal with, and as a producer I have negotiated many deals with
foreign nationals. So in international relations I am as good or better than
CFQ. If that is your only benchmark, then factor this in as well.
Cursus Honorum offices
QFM
Quaestor
Curule Aedile (not honorum)
Praetor
Consul
CFQ
Curule Aedile (not honorum)
Consul

Experience Counts!

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17191 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Question for the candidates for censor
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, Senator & Consul K. Fabius Quintilianus, and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're both well; I'm well.

We've heard now about your records of service, your
skills, your intentions if elected; in one case, we've
heard about your computer equipment also(!); I hope
you don't mind if I ask about one more relevant area.

When I cast my vote, considerations of competence and
distinguished service will be secondary in my mind,
because there are many people competent enough and
distinguished enough to fill this office. The really
hard thing you have to do to get my vote is persuade
me that you're the best person to act as the moral
guardian of the nation, both by your own example and
by supervising the morals of others. The Censorship,
more than any other office, should be given only to
the most morally upstanding.

So I'd like to hear something about your ethical
views; your thoughts about the moral dimension of the
Censorship; and your thoughts about the moral
wellbeing of the nation.

And of course it will in itself be a test of your
moral uprightness to see whether you can answer this
without attacking your rival!

Many thanks.

P.S. Senator Maximus wrote:
> Salvete Rhomanoi

Have you become a Greek, Senator? ;)

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17192 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Senator Quinte Fabi Maxime.

I just wanted to make you a question as a voter, based on a comment
from a previous message of yours:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:

<<snipped>>

> I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have
> to get along with many nationalities, in many more languages more
> so then any number CFQ ever had to deal with, and as a producer I
> have negotiated many deals with foreign nationals. So in
> international relations I am as good or better than CFQ.

I didn't know that you were a poliglot, Q. Fabi! You are right that
speaking many languages is a very desirable trait in a Nova Roma
censor, given the fact that we are an international orgnisation and
that our censors quite often have to deal with citizens that do not
speak English very well.

What languages do you speak, senator?

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17193 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > I really would prefer someone who pays a little more
> > attention to detail handling my private information.
>
> Anyone can copy a previous message to use as a template
> and forget to change the date. That is insignificant.
>
> But Caeso Fabius does have skills that will serve him very well
> as Censor. He is skilled at dealing with all sorts of different
> people, being likeable and personable, and treating all applicants
> as if their problems were of great importance. Caeso is a
> teacher, a job that gives him the opportunity to interact with
> people that depend on him - for education, guidance, and emotional
> support - each and every day.
>
> I do not have those abilities to anywhere near extent that
> Caeso Fabius has. I am a Unix geek and a curmudgeon. While I
> am capable of doing massive transformations on the citizen data
> with great precision, I consider Caeso much more suitable than
> I to answer citizen queries quickly and diplomatically. Caeso's
> skills will mesh together perfectly with mine; he will be the
> "front end" of the team and I will be the "back end".

Are you claiming that Caseo Fabius has communications skills?

Well if he does he has done an excellent job of hiding them this year.
He has been one of the least communicitive Consuls that Nova Roma has
ever seen. We rarely see him post to this list. All the debates over
the leges are handled by his staff rather than himself leaving the
people with no clear idea of exactly which views are being relayed on
his behalf and which ones are being added by the Consular Cohort.. er
Cohors.

Maybe he shows these skills when he is operating in the insular world
of a staff that largely agrees with him, but I haven't seen them on
the rare occasions he when he ventures outside his closed circle.

I'm not going to pretend that Fabius Maximus isn't a bit blunt at
times, but he has shown far more skills and willingness to communicate
with the citizens than Caseo Fabius has.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17194 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Salve Marinus,

<Thus far I think we've all held pretty
> well to the high road in this campaign, and I appreciate
> that.
I agree.

> Diana asked a question. I answered it. If it should
> work out that she and I are next year's Consuls, we're
> going to be asking each other a whole lot of questions
> as the year goes by. I hope that we will always be so
> cordial.

Well said!!
Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17195 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
| I have better internet access than CFQ[.]

Salve, Q. Fabi Maxime.

I would be most interested to know on what facts you base this statement.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/xkmSAGtgaSonkUoRAu8EAKCZWGZn+ESfgzzIrGLDlj8mLg20xACcDnYg
5eUuHEaC+cR2Kgl100WdFnY=
=mPPU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17196 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Fwd: Thanksgiving
Salve,

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17197 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Thu, 2003-11-27 at 18:16, Charlie Collins wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
> FOX News, CNN, and MSNBC are reporting President Bush made a totally
> secret visit to Baghdad today. He had Thanksgiving Dinner with 600
> U.S. Troop's, U.S. Provisional Authority Head Paul Bremer, and members
> of the Iraqi Provisional Council.

Salvete,

two points:

1,It's hardly a secret visit if 600 soldiers, Fox News and CNN know
about it. What he made was either a surprise visit or an unexpected
visit.
2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is from
the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster might
like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a
little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.

If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.

Valete,
G Corneilius Severus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17198 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Quintus Fabius Maximus for Censor!!
> I would like to announce my support for the election of Quintus Fabius Maximus . I have had the
honor of meeting our former Consul in person and find him to <be a man of integrity and vast
experience in Nova Roma and in the macro world. While he and I do not always see things the same
way, I trust him to tell the <truth, explain his position and to listen to other points of view. I
believe he has show that he has the time to devote to Nova Roma and he is the only candidate to
<serve in all the offices leading up to the office of Censor.

> I believe the Republic will be best served if you elect Quintus Fabius Maximus Censor.

A good choice! Having met Q Fabius Maximus at Roman Days and along with you, shared quite a few
laughs with him, I think that he is the perfect choice for Censor: he is brilliant, he is very handy
with a computer, and he is always available online (= he never has computer problems because he has
3 of them). Plus he is very gentlemanly and patient and didn't even get slightly annoyed at me when
I had him driving around in circles for an hour at 12:00 at night looking for a bar because I wanted
a gin and tonic :-) Roman Days was great because I got to see the fun, generous, good hearted,
laughing Q Fabius, who is hiding behind some *too* straight forward emails on this list :-)

During this entire year, Qunintus Fabius has always been active here in the Forum or on the other
various NR lists. Even when holding a job with long and difficult hours, he has never gone 'missing
in action' for weeks at a time. On the other hand, the other candidate Caeso Fabius has often posted
that because of his job or personal life, he wasn't able to read emails for a few weeks. I
understand that 100% because Caeso Fabius often deals with suicidal teenagers and can't say to them
'Wait!! Don't attempt suicide today, I am busy with NR work'. So while I completely and
wholeheartedly understand the reasons for not seeing him very often on the ML this year, and while I
have immense admiration for the job that he does helping young people with problems, I think that NR
needs a Censor who we can be sure will be available all the time for the next two years.

Make sure that you vote for the correct Fabius on the ballot: Vote Quintus Fabius Maximus for
Censor!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
Candidate for Consul 2757
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17199 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Salve,
Ooop's! My Bad! I just meant to send it to the Back Alley and I didn't
realize the Main List was added when I sent it.

Vale,
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

--
AIM: KSDeist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17200 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Salvete omnes,

LOL, in a way there is a historical similarity to Ancient Rome. It
was just like the time when Caligula darted quickly into Germany,
gave a demoralizing pep talk to his legions then flew the hell out of
there when someone started a rumor about the barbarian rebels on the
move nearby. Try also and imagine a Roman emperor making a quick
acessment visit into Jerusalem during the Jewish revolt or to
Alexandria during the racial - relgious riots.

By the way, I'm not American and am not equating Bush to Caligula.
I'm just pointing out that sometimes modern historical events can be
a mirror image of past ancient events.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...>
wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-11-27 at 18:16, Charlie Collins wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> > FOX News, CNN, and MSNBC are reporting President Bush made a
totally
> > secret visit to Baghdad today. He had Thanksgiving Dinner with 600
> > U.S. Troop's, U.S. Provisional Authority Head Paul Bremer, and
members
> > of the Iraqi Provisional Council.
>
> Salvete,
>
> two points:
>
> 1,It's hardly a secret visit if 600 soldiers, Fox News and CNN know
> about it. What he made was either a surprise visit or an unexpected
> visit.
> 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is
from
> the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster
might
> like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and
think a
> little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion
group.
>
> If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
> couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.
>
> Valete,
> G Corneilius Severus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17201 From: Adrian Gunn Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Test Message!
Salvete,

Sorry for all these tests - Yahoo is not forwaring group messages to
my e-mail....

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17202 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Am Do, 27 Nov 2003 13:23:59 EST, schrieb QFabiusMaxmi@...:
>�Romans instituted the duel
>�censorship so that the censors could carryout their duties...

Salve!

I hope that this is a simple typo ("dual") and not a Freudian misspelling... :-)
I'd like to ask you a question concerning these matters:

Censor Octavius has promised to do his best to work with his future colleague in harmony. How do you plan to work together with him?

Thank you for answering!

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@...
27.11.2003 22:26:10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17203 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Some questions to the candidates
Salvete omnes.

I'd like to ask some questions to our Censor Candidate Fabius Maximus and to Tribunus Plebis Candidate Sicinius Drusus. Then for all Tribunus Plebis Candidates.

First for Fabius Maximus:

- What kind of criterion would you apply to the censorial work? Based on what? What languages are you skilled on? I remember that spanish is not one of them, as we both now quite well. :-)

Second for Sicinius Drusus:

- Where is your declaration of candidacy? What are your goals as Tribunus Plebis for 2757? Are you agree with the current legislation passed this year in the plebeian Comitia? If so, why, and the same if disagree. :-)

For Tribunus Plebis in general:

- What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have between each others? What would be your goals on that field? What are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?


As a voter, I'd like to have this answers to make myself an idea of where Nova Roma would go. And surely I'm not the only voter to ask himself about. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
(as a potential voter)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17204 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Fw: Some questions to the candidates
Salvete omnes

I forgot some more questions for Fabius Maximus:

<<I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have to get
along with many nationalities, in many more languages more so then any number CFQ ever had to deal with, and as a producer I have negotiated many deals with foreign nationals. So in international relations I am as good or better than CFQ.>>

- Where/when did you get your degree at History?
- How many nationalities do you have to managed with? I think Consul Fabius Quintilianus have to deal with all Nova Roman nationalities, as you do.
- What is the base to compare international relations/Internet access? (I think California is many times at power cut risk :-))

That's all. I didn't saw this message before, so the question raised on my head later. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
(as a potential voter)




----- Original Message -----
From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: Some questions to the candidates


Salvete omnes.

I'd like to ask some questions to our Censor Candidate Fabius Maximus and to Tribunus Plebis Candidate Sicinius Drusus. Then for all Tribunus Plebis Candidates.

First for Fabius Maximus:

- What kind of criterion would you apply to the censorial work? Based on what? What languages are you skilled on? I remember that spanish is not one of them, as we both now quite well. :-)

Second for Sicinius Drusus:

- Where is your declaration of candidacy? What are your goals as Tribunus Plebis for 2757? Are you agree with the current legislation passed this year in the plebeian Comitia? If so, why, and the same if disagree. :-)

For Tribunus Plebis in general:

- What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have between each others? What would be your goals on that field? What are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?


As a voter, I'd like to have this answers to make myself an idea of where Nova Roma would go. And surely I'm not the only voter to ask himself about. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
(as a potential voter)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17205 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: A poll on Roman monuments
avete omnes,

which kind of monument better represent the Civilization of Rome?

Vote and see our poll on the Signa Romanorum site:

http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum

or directly insert here your preference:
http://codice.html.it/codsond.asp?idsondaggio=43658
(then click the following link)

The result of the poll is at:
http://codice.html.it/codsond2.asp?idsondaggio=43658
(then click the following link)


valete

Marcus Iulius Perusianus ****for Quaestor****
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17206 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
I'm sure he will, Cousin Ti

Marcus Octavius Germanicus is excellent at what he does, and will work well and professionally with whomever the Voters elect.
He was simply endorsing the candidate of his choice, something you and many others have done throughout this campaign.
You will please take note that he was simply expressing a personal opinion about how well his choice of candidate would fit into the team; at no time did he say or imply that any other individual would NOT work well with the Censor staff. I have no doubts whatsoever that he and the other Staff members will welcome, integrate and help whomever is elected into the Censors Office.
Please do not read into his words something that isn't there - an error I have made many times myself.

Vale bene
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 7:09 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Censor Octavius.<BR>
<BR>
"Unlike any other election taking place next month, the election for Censor is about fitting a candidate into an existing team, with a colleague and several scribae already in place.  Caeso will be a welcome addition to that team."<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect you can endorse anybody you like but the citizens will decide this and I think you should keep that in mind.   This election is more than "fitting a candidate into an existing team"  it is about the citizens of Nova Roma electing the best candidate for the job, and that might not be the same as your personal  choice.<BR>
<BR>
I would hope that anybody the voters elect as your colleague "will be a welcome addition to that team." <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Vale<BR>
<BR>
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus<BR>
Candidate For Tribune <BR>
<BR>
(  I hope my personal information doesn't disappear into cyberspace VBG)<BR>
  ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
  From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <BR>
  To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <BR>
  Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 9:09 PM<BR>
  Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:<BR>
<BR>
  > I really would prefer someone who pays a little more<BR>
  > attention to detail handling my private information.<BR>
<BR>
  Anyone can copy a previous message to use as a template<BR>
  and forget to change the date.  That is insignificant.<BR>
<BR>
  But Caeso Fabius does have skills that will serve him very well<BR>
  as Censor.   He is skilled at dealing with all sorts of different<BR>
  people, being likeable and personable, and treating all applicants<BR>
  as if their problems were of great importance.  Caeso is a<BR>
  teacher, a job that gives him the opportunity to interact with<BR>
  people that depend on him - for education, guidance, and emotional<BR>
  support - each and every day.<BR>
<BR>
  I do not have those abilities to anywhere near extent that<BR>
  Caeso Fabius has.  I am a Unix geek and a curmudgeon.  While I<BR>
  am capable of doing massive transformations on the citizen data<BR>
  with great precision, I consider Caeso much more suitable than<BR>
  I to answer citizen queries quickly and diplomatically.  Caeso's<BR>
  skills will mesh together perfectly with mine; he will be the<BR>
  "front end" of the team and I will be the "back end".<BR>
<BR>
  Unlike any other election taking place next month, the election for<BR>
  Censor is about fitting a candidate into an existing team, with<BR>
  a colleague and several scribae already in place.  Caeso will<BR>
  be a welcome addition to that team.<BR>
<BR>
  Vale, Octavius.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  -- <BR>
  Marcus Octavius Germanicus.<BR>
  <a href="http://www.graveyards.com/">http://www.graveyards.com/</a><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
  Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
<BR>
   <BR>
<BR>
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17207 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve Pontonius!

Good is an understatement - Kay's latest works qualify as Literature, they are so well crafted.
Sailing to Serantium and it's sequel are historical fiction set in a Byzantium of his alternate world - the city of Serantium. He makes an honest effort at historical accuracy, has truly three dimensional characters, intricate plot twists, and has really done a superb job of capturing the essense and feel of Byzantium - especially the politics, and how a simple mosaicist hired by the high and mighty gets caught up in the middle of court intrigues and the rowdiness of the Racing Factions.
The sublety, wit and sheer intelligence of the social Elite is a tour de force in itself; the Racing Factions & Races are vivid and exciting. The turbulence in the City is palpable, the superstitions of the times very authentic feeling.
You won't want to put them down, start to finish, both books!
They are also available in paperback, so you don't have to go broke for a great read.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 5:42 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
have not read it, good I assume ;)<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus" <hermeticagnosis@...><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:26 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Salve!<BR>
<BR>
  Have you ever read Guy Gavriel Kay's "Sailing to Serantium"?   Now THAT'S<BR>
Art!!<BR>
<BR>
Vale<BR>
       ~ Servius<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...><BR>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:06 PM<BR>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
I remember reading about a proposed film called Byzantium which would<BR>
deal<BR><BR>
with the Eastern Empire. I think it was an intended Trilogy. I am not<BR>
sure<BR><BR>
whatever happened with that.<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<a<BR>
href="<a href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/</a>"><a href="http://www.geocities.com/ponte">http://www.geocities.com/ponte</a><BR>
central/</a><BR><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR><BR>
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...><BR><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:14 AM<BR><BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR><BR>
> Hash: SHA1<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:<BR><BR>
> | Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to the<BR><BR>
> | Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman<BR><BR>
> | Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to<BR>
get<BR><BR>
> you through:<BR><BR>
> <a<BR>
href="<a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/</a>"><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344</a><BR>
994/</a><BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on IMDB.<BR><BR>
> Available through amazon or wherever. :)<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> - --<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR><BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)<BR><BR>
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - <a<BR>
href="<a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a>"><a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a></a><BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> iD8DBQE/w3HYAGtgaSonkUoRAqq3AJ9NU+ORyDw4Isxve0m/nl2dNmv91ACfTS5O<BR><BR>
> 1B58nfdGCfCiEJ//2kHEFGg=<BR><BR>
> =q0Lp<BR><BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17208 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Net access for magistrates
Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...> writes:

[quite a lot, of which I'm only going to address a little]

First Diana, I don't know if you have kept to the tradition of Thanksgiving
since you moved to Belgium, but if you do, I wish you the happiest of
Thanksgivings. You've had an eventful year, and in spite of some of the
negative parts, I think you've much to be thankful for. You have had the
honor of being elected Tribunis Plebis, and that's quite a special thing.

Beyond that, there was something you mentioned that I'd like to talk about a
bit.

> [QFM] never has computer problems because he has 3 of them

I have four of the things in my house, but that doesn't help one bit if the
power goes out or if my cable internet service provider has a server problem.
I know QFM uses AOL, which has a spotty reputation for reliability (one of
my sisters worked for AOL for years), though I have to give QFM full credit
for doing everything in his power to maintain contact whenever he can.
During the Ludi Victoria I thought for sure I'd lost contact with him due to
the wildfires in Southern California, but he got back online just before I
had to take the military contest over and run it myself.

So yes, QFM is good about keeping in touch, but I don't think that the sheer
number of computers one owns has a big effect on that. It's more a matter of
the stability of the local power grid and the ISP, combined with life
circumstances which permit regular contact.

On the other hand, I'm not at all sure the Censors have to be in as constant
contact as, say, the Praetors. From what I've gathered of the office in
communication with current and former Censors, it requires the ability to
dedicate significant but not necessarily continuous amounts of time. That's
the kind of thing I think either of the consular Fabii would be capable of
doing.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17209 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: A poll on Roman monuments
Ave Marce Iuli,

> which kind of monument better represent the Civilization of Rome?

Thanks for posting the links to the poll. I went and voted for roads,
although arches came in a close second. But I think the Roman roads have to
be given first place, since they provided for freedom of trade and of
movement.

Good little poll. Thanks.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17210 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Salve Maximus,

during the last months you attacked me to know a very very bad
english and I admited that I need several classes of your
language. ;-) (i'm doing it, I hope there will some improvement)
However you say us publicly that you know several tongues and one of
the best is the italian.
Italia now is the second Provincia in NR for number of citizens and
number of active members. And this dates go to grow ... Several
italians don't like the foreign languages, first of all if the
matter (Rome) is thinking like a own "national tresury", secondly
because someone think that english is a barbarian language (i give
you only words I have read, many of us don't think it).
Please, can you give us an example of your perfect italian? What
you'll say to a complicated italia question?
What is a first male name between the following: Maria and Stefano.
(this is important because I think you know that a request of a new
citizen is not accepted if the Censor don't recognize the
anagraphical dates).

Please, can you give us examples in all the tongues you know?

Please, can you give us technical dates about your internet
connection? Why you think you're able to be connected bettet than
Quintilianus? You live in california and we read in the newspapers
famous black-outs... I'm a graphic and web designer and I surf in
the web 15-16 hours per day and I can say you that the internet's
problems are many, random and not previewed (I hope the word is
correct, you know that my english is very bad :-) in everyplace ...
Do you live in a tend under the webserver of a californian webfarm?

You have a degree in History, Quintilianus is teacher of history ...
are you better? Why? Your publications are more important? Do you
think the publications make a man more experienced than a teacher?
Your degree is useful for this Office?

Thank you very much for your attenction?

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> Salvete
> Based on interesting comments by Censor Octavius that he gets
along better
> with CFQ rather than QFM. Romans instituted the duel censorship
so that the
> censors could carryout their duties throughout the city and later
the country,
> efficiently. The burden was on the Roman citizen to cooperate,
not that the
> censors had to cooperate which other.
> If Octavius is good friends with Fabius, great. However it is not
like they
> see each other each day, nor that they need to.
>
> I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have
to get
> along with many nationalities, in many more languages more so then
any number CFQ
> ever had to deal with, and as a producer I have negotiated many
deals with
> foreign nationals. So in international relations I am as good or
better than
> CFQ. If that is your only benchmark, then factor this in as well.
> Cursus Honorum offices
> QFM
> Quaestor
> Curule Aedile (not honorum)
> Praetor
> Consul
> CFQ
> Curule Aedile (not honorum)
> Consul
>
> Experience Counts!
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17211 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Endorsements for Tribunis Plebis
Salvete quirites,

The following candidates for the office of Tribunis Plebis are the ones I
consider best qualified to carry out the required duties. Of course as
Consul I will work with whomever the members of the Plebian order choose as
their Tribunes. Here are my endorsements:

* Franciscus Apulus Caesar

Caesar has been my colleague in the Collegium Aedilis this year, and has
worked tirelessly to carry out his duties as Curule Aedile. He is also the
propraetor of Provincia Italia, and boasts a long list of services to the
Republic.

* Lucius Arminius Faustus

My Plebian colleague in the Collegium Aedilis this year, Faustus is a staunch
supporter of the Ordo Plebis, and always works to insure the dignity and the
respect of the plebian citizens. I've enjoyed many exchanges with this fine
Brazilian gentleman, and he has convinced me that no one has the interests of
the Plebs more at heart.

* Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

You all know Tiberius Galerius. He has established himself as the editor of
the Eagle this year. Also, during that time he has served me as my Quaestor.
He is a man of immense personal energy, deep personal morality,
unquestionably fine character, and undoubted dedication to Nova Roma. His
record speaks for itself, and I ask you all to regard that record, and give
him your vote for Tribune.

* Gaius Modius Athanasius

Another well known character. Who doesn't recognize athanasiosofspfd when
they see it in the From line of a message? This is a man who is dedicated to
the Religio Romana, who has served as a provincial Procurator (second only to
the propraetor) in his home province of Lacus Magni, and who can always be
relied upon to stand for the highest and best standards among those who
represent Nova Roma.

* Julilla Sempronia Magna

To me, Julilla Sempronia Magna is the Prima Matrona of Nova Roma. A good and
kind woman who follows the example of Cornelia, the Mother of the two great
Semproni Gracchi tribunes, Julilla is another of my fellow provincial
governors, leading the province of America Boreoccidentalis. She has
established herself as a person capable of firm, though kind, leadership.
She will be a fine Tribune, and I've no doubt she will go much further on the
cursus honorum in the fullness of time.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17212 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
Salve Sceptius, Amice,

> For Tribunus Plebis in general:
>
> - What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others? What would be your goals on that field? What
are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?

I hopeto have understood your question, please correct me if you
think the opposite ;-)
I think that in NR the diferrences between patricians and plebeians
are not so marked and the magistracies work togheter as well as
possible. It's not an hard job because the Costitution give us
detailed list of duties and we have common goals.
During the last year as Curule Aedile, I worked well with the two
Plebeian Aediles creating a close and efficent Collegium able to
create exciting Ludi. When Faustus was alone Marinus and me were
glad to help him for the organization of the Ludi Plebeian.
I think that the most important goal of the plebeian Aediles is to
protect and to improve the status of all the plebeian citizens. IMHO
the best way to do it is collaborate with all the Magistrates, from
the Quaestores to the Censores. It's useful to prevent intercessio,
to understand how an embryonal law could be improved to be approved.
About the goals, I think that the first important is to honorate the
plebeian status accomplishing the own duties. But I know that this
is not enough. In teh last year several new laws are be published by
the Consules, the Praetores and the outcoming Tribunes: we have to
understand what is their best application, if in the practice they
work, if they need to be changed or improved and if they are hurting
the plebeian status.
Again, we have to check if the new election systems work as well as
possible.
And as said by the Aedile Faustus, maybe we need to check if some
Magistracy like the Plebeian Aedileship must to be improved.
I think that other jobs and goals will come in the future when the
elected citizens will "meet" the Office.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Candidate as Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17213 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Salve, Quintus Fabius Maximus:

On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 01:23:59PM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
> I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have to get
> along with many nationalities, in many more languages more so then any number CFQ
> ever had to deal with, and as a producer I have negotiated many deals with
> foreign nationals. So in international relations I am as good or better than
> CFQ. If that is your only benchmark, then factor this in as well.

This, presumably, is why you recently repeatedly criticized one of our
Italian cives for his "imperfect" English, then? I would call that a
poor example of international relations, and I must say that in a year
and a half of reading this list I have seen no _good_ examples of those
skills you claim.

Consul Quintillianus has managed - *very* effectively, in my perception
- what you and your two primary supporters had been calling a "huge"
international staff during the past year, a _proven_ record of
effectiveness and competence. You're on record as being against any
magistrates whose English deviates from your definition of perfection
- unless, of course, they're American, as are your two main supporters
whose English and/or spelling varies from below average to atrocious.

Presumably, you have been hiding your light under a bushel. Please feel
free to explain how that display of xenophobia illustrates your skill at
international relations.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mens agitat molem.
The mind moves the matter.
-- Vergil, "Aenis"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17214 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1481

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Ranata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17215 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salve, Q. Fabius Maximus; salvete, omnes -

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 08:08:35PM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
> Oh, I didn't realize we were to talk about our records. Hmmm.
> Ok. I have been involved almost every controversy here in NR.

<blink> I didn't realize that being involved in controversies was a
positive factor. Hmm, based on that premise, *I* have an excellent
chance of becoming Consul...

> As
> Consul I made on line stalking of Citizens illegal

Erm, Internet stalking has been illegal in macronational law long before
you came along. Perhaps you meant that you were involved in Nova Roma's
_recognition_ of the current status, although there's not much that can
be done here by comparison to macronational enforcement.

> I have only have one assistant in all my magistracies. I don't believe in
> doling out pork to be popular.

What sort of "pork" are you implying was doled out, and by whom? Or is
that yet more of that wonderful political campaign noise sounds so grand
while having no actual content?

(Me, I'm going to take my ill-gotten loot and retire to Monaco. I'm
_sure_ I must have some, since Quintus Fabius Maximus himself has said
so...)


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ridentem dicere verum, quid vetat?
What prohibits us to tell the truth laughing (through a joke)?
-- Horace, "Satirae"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17216 From: Chantal G. Whittington Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1484

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17217 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve, Titus Octavius Pius!

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 06:54:12PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
> Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
>
> | So, given that we've had these great explanations telling
> | us all the whys, wherefores, and shades of meanings (thank
> | you, Hiera Cassia!), what does "Miklagård" mean?
>
> Salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.
>
> Two parts, "mikla" and "gård". Gård means something along the lines of
> "house, stead, farm, home", so Miklagård is probably "Home of the
> Miklas"...as to mikla, I'm far from sure. The closest word we've got
> today is slang, and means approximately "fiddle with, meddle".
>
> So Miklagård could conceivably mean "Home of the meddlers". I'm fairly
> sure this isn't right, but it's an interesting thought. :)

<grin> And highly appealing! It's in the "if it's not true, it should
be" category.


Optime Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
A liar needs a good memory.
-- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17218 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: Recruitment--to the Magistrates & Citizens
Salve, G Cornelius Severus -

On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 08:31:37PM +0000, Neil Lucock wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 16:10, Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
>
> > > I think he quote "to err is human, to forgive divine" comes from
> > > Alexander Pope, whose inpiration was Horace.I forget where he said it,
> > > it was probably in The Essay on Man but it might have been The Dunciad.
> >
> > Hmm, I wonder where (and what) in Horace he stole, I mean borrowed. :)
> > It would be interesting to compare the two quotes. The last time, G.
> > Iulius Scaurus provided a couple of references that made for a while of
> > happy digging in the classics...
> >
> Salvete,
>
> Pope imitated loads of things from The Odes, (particulary Book 3) but he
> did credit the source. read An Epistle to Dr. Arbuthnot-
> "let peals of laughter, Codrus, around thee break,
> thou unconcerned canst hear the mightly crack,
> pit, box and gallery in convulsions hurled,
> thou stoodst unshook amidst a bursting world"
> an then ;
> "si fractus illabatur orbis,
> impavidum ferient ruinae"
>
> (if the whole world should break, he'd be undaunted as it collapsed.
> Addison's translation is (much much) better than mine: "Should the whole
> frame of nature round him break, in ruin and convulsion hurled, He,
> unconcerned, would hear the mighty crack, and stand secure amidst a
> falling world").
>
> The "heroic couplet" was Horace's style too. Probably why I like Pope's
> work so much, it's Horace reheated for English speakers with Pope's
> usual vitriol, wit and faultless style. </end rant>

Hmm, sounds like my cuppa tea. Besides the obvious classics that they
make you read in school, I've never read much Pope; seems that now, I'll
have to. :) Presumably, he'll do at least as well as Lord Byron's
"Epitaph for Lord Castlereagh"... should be fun.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Amicus verus est rara avis.
A true friend is a rare bird.
-- N/A
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17219 From: StarVVreck@aol.com Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
In a message dated 11/27/2003 2:34:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mjk@... writes:
LOL, in a way there is a historical similarity to Ancient Rome. It
was just like the time when Caligula
Salve,

Forget about Caligula, Marcus Aurelius spent a large portion of his reign on
the front lines of Germania, allowing Rome's borders to remain intact for at
least a couple years after his reign. ;-)

Vale,

Iulius Titinius Antonius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17220 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Thraco-Daco-Moesian Languages Project
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Thraco-Daco-Moesian Languages Project":

http://soltdm.tripod.com/index.htm

This amibitious website by Sorin Olteanu aims at providing a
clearinghouse for information on the evolution of local languages in
Rome's Danubian provinces.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17221 From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius Date: 2003-11-27
Subject: Re: The Movie Troy
Salve Servius!

I am always on the lookout for new reading material. I shall add the first
book to my long list of books to read. Thanks again!

Vale,

Lucius Cassius Pontonius

http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus" <hermeticagnosis@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>; <harrituspotterus1@...>;
<Scriboni89@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy


Salve Pontonius!

Good is an understatement - Kay's latest works qualify as Literature, they
are so well crafted.
Sailing to Serantium and it's sequel are historical fiction set in a
Byzantium of his alternate world - the city of Serantium. He makes an
honest effort at historical accuracy, has truly three dimensional
characters, intricate plot twists, and has really done a superb job of
capturing the essense and feel of Byzantium - especially the politics, and
how a simple mosaicist hired by the high and mighty gets caught up in the
middle of court intrigues and the rowdiness of the Racing Factions.
The sublety, wit and sheer intelligence of the social Elite is a tour de
force in itself; the Racing Factions & Races are vivid and exciting. The
turbulence in the City is palpable, the superstitions of the times very
authentic feeling.
You won't want to put them down, start to finish, both books!
They are also available in paperback, so you don't have to go broke for a
great read.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...>
Sent: Nov 26, 2003 5:42 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy

<html><body>


<tt>
have not read it, good I assume ;)<BR>
<BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR>
<BR>
<a
href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/ponte
central/</a><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus"
<hermeticagnosis@...><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:26 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Salve!<BR>
<BR>
Have you ever read Guy Gavriel Kay's "Sailing to Serantium"? Now
THAT'S<BR>
Art!!<BR>
<BR>
Vale<BR>
~ Servius<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Lucius Cassius Pontonius <pontonius@...><BR>
Sent: Nov 25, 2003 7:06 PM<BR>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR>
<BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
I remember reading about a proposed film called Byzantium which would<BR>
deal<BR><BR>
with the Eastern Empire. I think it was an intended Trilogy. I am not<BR>
sure<BR><BR>
whatever happened with that.<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Lucius Cassius Pontonius<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://www.geocities.com/pontecentral/">http://www.geocities.com/ponte
central/</a>"><a
href="http://www.geocities.com/ponte">http://www.geocities.com/ponte</a><BR>
central/</a><BR><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR><BR>
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...><BR><BR>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com><BR><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:14 AM<BR><BR>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Movie Troy<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR><BR>
> Hash: SHA1<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:<BR><BR>
> | Another great epic would be about the fall of Constaninople to
the<BR><BR>
> | Seljak Turks in 1453 AD or the successsess of the Eastern Roman<BR><BR>
> | Empire in the 5, 6 , 7th centuries.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Darn, no-go. Perhaps later. Until then, there's this documentary to<BR>
get<BR><BR>
> you through:<BR><BR>
> <a<BR>
href="<a
href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344994/">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344
994/</a>"><a
href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0344</a>
<BR>
994/</a><BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> It's got some good reviews, too...though no reviews at all on
IMDB.<BR><BR>
> Available through amazon or wherever. :)<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> - --<BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> "Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari<BR><BR>
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href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a></a><BR><BR>
><BR><BR>
> iD8DBQE/w3HYAGtgaSonkUoRAqq3AJ9NU+ORyDw4Isxve0m/nl2dNmv91ACfTS5O<BR><BR>
> 1B58nfdGCfCiEJ//2kHEFGg=<BR><BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17222 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
<< Presumably, you have been hiding your light under a bushel. Please feel
free to explain how that display of xenophobia illustrates your skill at
international relations.
Caius Minucius Scaevola >>

Salvete.

Ah, I wondered when I would hear from you, Minucius. I can't be up on the
rostrum without drawing your ire. I see you are up to your old antics. Does
your Paterfamilias know what you are up to? I'm sure he would not approve of
you blowing out of proportion my comments about a magistrate having problems
writing English. However I'm still unclear on this. Did you take exception to my
making the comments because you were so anti QFM, or did you take exception
to exercising my freedom of speech to criticize the current administration?
However to set the record straight: My comments came about because of during
a contest, his questions were unclear when they should have been clear and I
simply pointed it out. For some reason I felt since English is the common
language of this reconstruction, the expectation of understandable English on the
part of a magistrate was not too much to ask. However, the Cohors seemed to
become upset with this, and understandably since many could not write English.

I know that one day we will communicate in Latin, but until that happens we
will use English. I believe that one asking for reasonable communication
skills is not too much.
As for international skills, under my Consulship, Germania, Gallia, and
Australia became viable provinces.
But what does this have to do with my ability to be a Censor? Do think I am
going to forbid new citizens to Nova Roma, because they do not speak
impeccable English? If I gave that impression I am sorry. I was only talking about
magistrates.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17223 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign -Question for the candidates for censor
In a message dated 11/27/03 1:56:45 PM, a_apollonius_cordus@...
writes:

<<

When I cast my vote, considerations of competence and

distinguished service will be secondary in my mind,

because there are many people competent enough and

distinguished enough to fill this office. The really

hard thing you have to do to get my vote is persuade

me that you're the best person to act as the moral

guardian of the nation, both by your own example and

by supervising the morals of others. The Censorship,

more than any other office, should be given only to

the most morally upstanding.


So I'd like to hear something about your ethical

views; your thoughts about the moral dimension of the

Censorship; and your thoughts about the moral

well-being of the nation.


And of course it will in itself be a test of your

moral uprightness to see whether you can answer this

without attacking your rival! >>

Salve Apolloni.
Not attack a candidate during an election campaign? How un Roman!
"f. To safeguard the public morality and honor through the collegial
administering of nota" This from the Vedian Constitution. I take it you presume that
a man is able to sit in moral judgment of another only if he himself is moral.
The Romans realized that such was impossible so they substituted the Rule of
Law and made all subject to it.
Now, in Nova Roma there no moral imperative demanded of their magistrates
other than not embarrass Nova Roma. If a Senator was arrested for a major crime
in a macronational nation, he could be issued a nota. If he used his position
in Nova Roma to defraud or damage the citizens again he could be issued a
nota.
What we ask of our of magistrates is to lead through example. This example
is calculated to inspire the citizens to emulate such behavior for the
betterment of Nova Roma.
I have always led through example. Even when my sister was lying in hospital
at the point of death in San Diego from an auto accident and my father's
death during my consulship, I continued, with the support of my able co Consul
Marcus Audens, to govern. Not that I wanted to desert my family, but thanks
through the miracle of laptops and mass communication I was able to keep in
contact with vital magistracies. I felt that my attention to duty to be typical
Roman as stated in Livius and Plutarch's stories. I also felt as one the Consuls
serving after the constitutional wars the year before, and Nova Roma being in
its infancy my duty was to oversee the rebuilding started by the dictator and
his two successors. While the Gods saw it fit to take my father, my sister
has recovered and continues along in her career to this day. I would like to
think that my presence and prayers had much to do with that even though it was
at great personal cost.
I offer that same dedication to Nova Roma, today, as well as the same
devotion.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17224 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:

Second for Sicinius Drusus:

- Where is your declaration of candidacy?

I Intended to post it earlier this week, but the Senior Consul
promulgated a series of leges in the midst of the campaign, so I
postponed making the declaration until after the flood of posts on the
leges subsided. I Would like it read instead of being lost among all the
other posts.

What are your goals as Tribunus Plebis for 2757?

I Will attempt to get the Senate to loosen it's privacy seal with
respect to the Tribunes so they can do a better job of keeping the
citizens informed on the Senate's meetings.

I Will work with the Consuls to restore the historic condition of both
tribal assemblies having the same voting procedures.

I Will be starting a debate on reorganizing the tribes on a more
historic basis. Historicly Tribal assignment in the later stages of the
Republic was made by family rather than by a random process, but that
will be a problem given our ahistoric Gens structure. The Early tribes
were assigned by region. As new regions gained the citizenship a tribe
was set up for them until the number reached 35, so regional assignment
is a possible model.

I Will be doing the "Little things" debate I started this summer on a
regular basis, looking for the little things that are easy to fix, but
are being ignored.

I Will NOT be starting on some grand plan to overhaul Nova Roma. That
might disapoint the hard core political diehards, but constant political
fights aren't the reason most of us applied for citizenship. I haven't
forgotten this section from Nova Roma's constution

"The primary functions of Nova Roma shall be to promote the study and
practice of pagan Roman civilization, defined as the period from the
founding of the City of Rome in 753 BCE to the removal of the altar of
Victory from the Senate in 394 CE and encompassing such fields as
religion, culture, politics, art, literature, language, and philosophy"

Please note that politics is just one of seven subjects that Nova Roma
has a mission to promote, and politics does not have the first postion
on the list. I intend to make the other six more promanant in Nova Roma.

Are you agree with the current legislation passed this year in the
plebeian Comitia?

Yes, though the law on reporting Senate meetings will have to be
modified if I suceed in getting the Senate to loosen it's seal, and the
law on voting may have to be modified depending on what Agreement I can
reach with the Consuls. The goal will be to have a historic voting
procedure.

If so, why, and the same if disagree. :-)

The Law on voting was more historic than the previous procedure. The
other two established some badly needed procedures.

For Tribunus Plebis in general:

- What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others?

As good as possible. I will work with the other Magistrates on matters
where we agree, but no Tribune should ever be expected to go against his
beliefs just because the other magistrates disagree with him.

What would be your goals on that field?

To get the other Magistrates to concetrate more on the Religio and Roman
Culture and less on politics.

What are the main problems you identify for next year?

Politics dominating every aspect of Nova Roma

Why?

Because it's been that way for years.

L. Sicinius Drusus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17225 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 12:04:33AM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
> << Presumably, you have been hiding your light under a bushel. Please feel
> free to explain how that display of xenophobia illustrates your skill at
> international relations.
> Caius Minucius Scaevola >>
>
> Salvete.
>
> Ah, I wondered when I would hear from you, Minucius. I can't be up on the
> rostrum without drawing your ire.

"Ire"? It was nothing more than a question based on the inaccuracy in
your statements. What makes you so afraid of it that you have to try to
twist it into something it's not?

> I see you are up to your old antics. Does
> your Paterfamilias know what you are up to?

I'm answerable only to myself in matters I choose to discuss, thanks. If
the first thought that comes to your mind in the matter of making
decisions is whose permission you need, then I have to question your
qualification for _any_ position of responsibility. Surely you didn't
mean that the way it sounded?

> I'm sure he would not approve of
> you blowing out of proportion my comments about a magistrate having problems
> writing English.

You know, I didn't bother digging out your previous posts, but I will if
you keep trying to hide behind distortions. Right now, you've only shown
yourself to be incapable of effective international relations; be
careful not to add dishonesty to the tally.

> However I'm still unclear on this. Did you take exception to my
> making the comments because you were so anti QFM, or did you take exception
> to exercising my freedom of speech to criticize the current administration?

Neither, actually. I took exception to your demonstrable inaccuracy in
your self-description. If you show yourself to be the best man for the
position, I'll vote for you despite any personal dislike for your past
behavior; however, so far, you've done nothing but strike out. You're
now proceeding to dig deeper, and what makes it much worse is the fact
that it's completely unnecessary: a simple admission that you overstated
your qualification would have been sufficient.

> However to set the record straight: My comments came about because of during
> a contest, his questions were unclear when they should have been clear and I
> simply pointed it out. For some reason I felt since English is the common
> language of this reconstruction, the expectation of understandable English on the
> part of a magistrate was not too much to ask. However, the Cohors seemed to
> become upset with this, and understandably since many could not write English.

[sigh] Let's see. This is a bit of a pain, since I'm currently on a
train to New York, but -

First, your sarcastic subject, quite in keeping with the Dignitas one
would expect of a would-be Consul and a top-notch international
communicator:

+ Subject: magistrates must to speak the English.

Then, the message itself: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/15048>

I'll quote just one of your statements here:

+ So what exactly is this language you are communicating in during NR official
+ business? Pidgin English with an Italian dialect? Not very "Roman" of you...
+
+ Now if you wish to be a magistrate, either get an English translator, who
+ speaks Italian, or learn how to write the language correctly so we can
+ understand
+ exactly what you are saying and are not making educated guesses.

As the Aedile said at the time, "arrogant, intolerant and not Roman".
Keep building up the denials, and I'll dig out your other gems of
xenophobic wit; there are more. If I take the time to dig back into the
old archives, as I did back when - it may not happen this week or the
next, since I'll be away from home and quite busy - I'll dig up some
examples of misogyny and other oddities. Care to challenge me on it, or
do you want to just admit to what you've been caught at and let it drop
quietly?

> I know that one day we will communicate in Latin, but until that happens we
> will use English. I believe that one asking for reasonable communication
> skills is not too much.

In that case, I suggest that you take your Boni friends to task, and
perhaps require them to surrender or keep from applying for any
magistracies here. I've always managed to follow Franciscus Apulus
Caesar's posts easily - he puts forth the necessary effort in order to
be understood, as do most of the non-native speakers on this list -
whereas the two individuals I've mentioned don't even bother, and have
made statements to that effect.

Rule 1: First, clean your own house; *second*, set out to clean up the
world.

> As for international skills, under my Consulship, Germania, Gallia, and
> Australia became viable provinces.

[chuckle] Surely you're not claiming _responsibility_ for that fact? If
those events happened to coincide with your Consulship, fine, but unless
you can show some causal link, it's just more noise.

> But what does this have to do with my ability to be a Censor? Do think I am
> going to forbid new citizens to Nova Roma, because they do not speak
> impeccable English? If I gave that impression I am sorry. I was only talking about
> magistrates.

[blink] Pardon me, but the above parses to your forbidding new
magistrates who do not speak impeccable English if you become Censor.
You may wish to clarify that statement.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Qui statuit aliquid parte inaudita altera, aequum licet statuerit.
One who passes sentence on something without having heard the other part isn't
just, even if the sentence is just.
-- Seneca Philosophus, Medea. Cf. "audietur et altera pars."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17226 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
>
> First, your sarcastic subject, quite in keeping with the Dignitas one
> would expect of a would-be Consul and a top-notch international
> communicator:

I meant a "A would-be Censor", of course.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Qui statuit aliquid parte inaudita altera, aequum licet statuerit.
One who passes sentence on something without having heard the other part isn't
just, even if the sentence is just.
-- Seneca Philosophus, Medea. Cf. "audietur et altera pars."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17227 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
ROFL,

I See the Consular Cohort's Grand High Poobah of Verbal Assults is
busy earning his century points.

Intresting isn't it?

The Poobah's Pater, Senator Audens is famed for delivering public
admonishments at posters for the slighest item he deems insulting, but
he remains silent when a member of his Gens attacks other posters.

Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture people
about proper decorum on this list, but we never see a lecture aimed at
his fellow Cohorts member and buddy who makes more personal attacks
than all other posters combined.

I Guess those lecture are reserved for people they disagree with.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:
> Salve, Quintus Fabius Maximus:
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 01:23:59PM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> >
> > I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have
to get
> > along with many nationalities, in many more languages more so then
any number CFQ
> > ever had to deal with, and as a producer I have negotiated many
deals with
> > foreign nationals. So in international relations I am as good or
better than
> > CFQ. If that is your only benchmark, then factor this in as well.
>
> This, presumably, is why you recently repeatedly criticized one of our
> Italian cives for his "imperfect" English, then? I would call that a
> poor example of international relations, and I must say that in a year
> and a half of reading this list I have seen no _good_ examples of those
> skills you claim.
>
> Consul Quintillianus has managed - *very* effectively, in my perception
> - what you and your two primary supporters had been calling a "huge"
> international staff during the past year, a _proven_ record of
> effectiveness and competence. You're on record as being against any
> magistrates whose English deviates from your definition of perfection
> - unless, of course, they're American, as are your two main supporters
> whose English and/or spelling varies from below average to atrocious.
>
> Presumably, you have been hiding your light under a bushel. Please feel
> free to explain how that display of xenophobia illustrates your skill at
> international relations.
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Mens agitat molem.
> The mind moves the matter.
> -- Vergil, "Aenis"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17228 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Salve Honorable A. Apollonius Cordus!

>A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
>Maximus, Senator & Consul K. Fabius Quintilianus, and
>all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
>I hope you're both well; I'm well.
>
>We've heard now about your records of service, your
>skills, your intentions if elected; in one case, we've
>heard about your computer equipment also(!); I hope
>you don't mind if I ask about one more relevant area.
>
>When I cast my vote, considerations of competence and
>distinguished service will be secondary in my mind,
>because there are many people competent enough and
>distinguished enough to fill this office. The really
>hard thing you have to do to get my vote is persuade
>me that you're the best person to act as the moral
>guardian of the nation, both by your own example and
>by supervising the morals of others. The Censorship,
>more than any other office, should be given only to
>the most morally upstanding.
>
>So I'd like to hear something about your ethical
>views; your thoughts about the moral dimension of the
>Censorship; and your thoughts about the moral
>wellbeing of the nation.

Moral is knowing the difference between right and wrong, and choosing
to do right even when it is not the easy or expedient choice.

To me moral is

to always do your best.
to try to listen to others first instead of only listen to your own voice.
to assist people that need help.
to do the work behind the scenes that is needed without always
recieving any "appreciation" for it.
to be polite and if possible understanding.
to be as just as possible.
to try to keep your dignitas and to try to respect the dignitas of others.
to be true to the Roman People.
to discuss facts instead of attacking persons.
to work to bring Nova Roma into the light of the real world.

As a Censor I would have the duty to also keep an eye on public moral.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17229 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Questions to QFM
Salvete Omnes,

Surely at least a portion of the host of questions
being addressed to consular candidate Quintus Fabius
Maximus should be addressed to his electoral rival so
that Caeso Fabius Quintilianus has a chance to have
his views heard too.

Thus far I have only witnessed one question being
addressed jointly to both candidates.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17230 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Answers of Sicinius Drusus
Salvete omnes.

I'd like to comment Sicinius Drusus answers.

- Where is your declaration of candidacy?

I Intended to post it earlier this week, but the Senior Consul
promulgated a series of leges in the midst of the campaign, so I
postponed making the declaration until after the flood of posts on the
leges subsided. I Would like it read instead of being lost among all the
other posts.

LDGS: Good, I hope we'll see it soon to compare whith the others.

- What are your goals as Tribunus Plebis for 2757?

I Will attempt to get the Senate to loosen it's privacy seal with
respect to the Tribunes so they can do a better job of keeping the
citizens informed on the Senate's meetings.

LDGS: This is a policy I support.

I Will work with the Consuls to restore the historic condition of both
tribal assemblies having the same voting procedures.

LDGS: You mean you'll try to homogenize all the Comitia electoral systems? How? What is this historical condition, if I may ask so?

I Will be starting a debate on reorganizing the tribes on a more
historic basis. Historicly Tribal assignment in the later stages of the
Republic was made by family rather than by a random process, but that
will be a problem given our ahistoric Gens structure. The Early tribes
were assigned by region. As new regions gained the citizenship a tribe
was set up for them until the number reached 35, so regional assignment
is a possible model.

LDGS: I'd like to hear more about the system you have in mind, Sicinius Drusus. As far as I know, there are some other proposals about. What do you think of all them?

I Will be doing the "Little things" debate I started this summer on a
regular basis, looking for the little things that are easy to fix, but
are being ignored.

LDGS: I think I don't fully understand that of "Little things" because I didn't know there were a division between "little" and "big" things to be done. What does this "little things" mean?

I Will NOT be starting on some grand plan to overhaul Nova Roma. That
might disapoint the hard core political diehards, but constant political
fights aren't the reason most of us applied for citizenship. I haven't
forgotten this section from Nova Roma's constution

Please note that politics is just one of seven subjects that Nova Roma
has a mission to promote, and politics does not have the first postion
on the list. I intend to make the other six more promanant in Nova Roma.


LDGS: This point is another one I don't understand fully well. I think that politicals are to improve the six points you quoted, not only a single point more. And there is a problem in mind that make me feel some incoherence about your speech. If you are going to improve homogeneous electoral procedures and to change Tribe system, there is indeed a reform in Nova Roma, and a great one. Those you call "diehards" or intransigent that makes the "Think Tanks" of Nova Roma are then very respected if no change can be done, but only the changes they allow?

I think politics is a very important part in every society as far as they set what is to be done and what not. If you pledge for no political action, not action indeed is done, nor action is done without a political purpose in sight.

Then what worries me more about your statements is this:

*Are you going to do only your factional (This "hard core political diehards") duties or Tribunus Plebis constitutional duties? (And this question can be for all Candidates)

- Are you agree with the current legislation passed this year in the
plebeian Comitia?

Yes, though the law on reporting Senate meetings will have to be
modified if I suceed in getting the Senate to loosen it's seal, and the
law on voting may have to be modified depending on what Agreement I can
reach with the Consuls. The goal will be to have a historic voting
procedure.

LDGS: I support that again. It is a good view, candidate.

- If so, why, and the same if disagree. :-)

The Law on voting was more historic than the previous procedure. The
other two established some badly needed procedures.

LDGS: I think I'm lost. You mean that Moravia Aventina's law is more historic or the previous one? You mean the other two laws on voting or the Senate report of Moravia Aventina and the Potestate law I wrote (Those two) were badly needed procedures? I think I don't fully understand that, Sicinius Drusus.

For Tribunus Plebis in general:

- What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others?

As good as possible. I will work with the other Magistrates on matters
where we agree, but no Tribune should ever be expected to go against his
beliefs just because the other magistrates disagree with him.

LDGS: Well, I hope this independence of thought is not against the "hard core political diehards" you mentioned. :-)

I think a Tribunus Plebis is a defendant of the Res Publica, of the Plebs and the best help for all plebeian magistracies.

- What would be your goals on that field?

To get the other Magistrates to concetrate more on the Religio and Roman
Culture and less on politics.

What are the main problems you identify for next year?

Politics dominating every aspect of Nova Roma

Why?

Because it's been that way for years.

LDGS: Again I think that you try to diminish politics when they are a way to do things (Right now you're in political debate of what to do or not!). I agree we need to improve this points, but a correct policy can help more than no policy at all.

Sicinius Drusus, I have some doubts yet. I hope the rest of candidates will join this debate. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17231 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Answers of Apulus Caesar
Salvete omnes.

> For Tribunus Plebis in general:
>
> - What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others? What would be your goals on that field? What
are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?

I hopeto have understood your question, please correct me if you
think the opposite ;-)

LDGS: Actually, your english is much more improved than mine (Which is going worst :-))

I think that in NR the diferrences between patricians and plebeians
are not so marked and the magistracies work togheter as well as
possible. It's not an hard job because the Costitution give us
detailed list of duties and we have common goals.

LDGS: Remember there is some legislation passed too. Is not only the Constitutio but also the law. :-)

During the last year as Curule Aedile, I worked well with the two
Plebeian Aediles creating a close and efficent Collegium able to
create exciting Ludi. When Faustus was alone Marinus and me were
glad to help him for the organization of the Ludi Plebeian.
I think that the most important goal of the plebeian Aediles is to
protect and to improve the status of all the plebeian citizens. IMHO
the best way to do it is collaborate with all the Magistrates, from
the Quaestores to the Censores.

LDGS: I support that.

It's useful to prevent intercessio,
to understand how an embryonal law could be improved to be approved.

LDGS: To veto somebody is the last chance to avoid something, but I agree the potential power of it is a great deterrent weapon.

About the goals, I think that the first important is to honorate the
plebeian status accomplishing the own duties. But I know that this
is not enough. In teh last year several new laws are be published by
the Consules, the Praetores and the outcoming Tribunes: we have to
understand what is their best application, if in the practice they
work, if they need to be changed or improved and if they are hurting
the plebeian status.

LDGS: A very sensible speech. :-)

Again, we have to check if the new election systems work as well as
possible.

LDGS: There are several voices claiming for a homogenize system, for a reform... what do you have in mind?

And as said by the Aedile Faustus, maybe we need to check if some
Magistracy like the Plebeian Aedileship must to be improved.

LDGS: I deeply agree Arminius Faustus that a law is needed for Plebeian Aedilis. What kind of law would fix better this office?

I think that other jobs and goals will come in the future when the
elected citizens will "meet" the Office.

LDGS: In fact, it is many times as you says, but is very important to act within a frame in which one can ask himself: "What is my purpose? What can I do/What I'm doing to get it? What is the outcome?". Politics. :-)

Thanks for your answers, Apulus Caesar. I hope more candidates will join this debate.

vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17232 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: A poll on Roman monuments
ave Marine,

Ave Marce Iuli,

>> which kind of monument better represent the Civilization of Rome?
>Thanks for posting the links to the poll. I went and voted for roads,
>although arches came in a close second. But I think the Roman roads >have
to be given first place, since they provided for freedom of trade >and of
movement.

thank you! at the moment acqueduct is first (31,8%) and baths come second
(27,3%). Roads are only third with 22,7%!
But these three kind count about 82% alone!!! The other 7 types are far
away! ;-)


vale
M IVL PERVSIANVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17233 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Decorum and posting styles
Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

[a lot, including]

> Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture people
> about proper decorum on this list,

I have, yes, including you Senator. I prefer civil discourse, as you
have said you do. It provides a better atmosphere in which we can all
work together.

> but we never see a lecture aimed at his fellow Cohorts member and
> buddy who makes more personal attacks than all other posters combined.

First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted
here. Second, while I've often thought Scaevola's methods too
abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I
disagreed with the essential message he was conveying. Third, I
think you're confusing the meaning of "personal attack" here, though
I will acknowledge that some of Scaevola's more angry missives have
gotten quite personal at times.

> I Guess those lecture are reserved for people they disagree with.

If that were the case you'd never have seen me take Diana Moravia
to task so quickly last summer for a crosspost she made from another
list to here. Nor would you have seen me take Marcus Octavius
Germanicus to task for some posts he wrote in an exchange with you
earlier this year.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17234 From: C.IVL.MARIVS Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Search for a candidate !
AVETE

some days ago I saw in a candidacy statement of anybody of you (the
candidates) a specific politic promise: to work to raise the number of new
citizen.

I don't remeber who is he/she.

Can anyone help me to find he/she ?

VALETE
C IVL MARIVS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17235 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Caius Minucius Scaevola Gnaeus Equitius Marinus SPD.

On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 07:55:31AM -0500, Bill Gawne wrote:
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> [a lot, including]
>
> > Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture people
> > about proper decorum on this list,
>
> I have, yes, including you Senator. I prefer civil discourse, as you
> have said you do. It provides a better atmosphere in which we can all
> work together.
>
> > but we never see a lecture aimed at his fellow Cohorts member and
> > buddy who makes more personal attacks than all other posters combined.
>
> First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted
> here. Second, while I've often thought Scaevola's methods too
> abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I
> disagreed with the essential message he was conveying. Third, I
> think you're confusing the meaning of "personal attack" here, though
> I will acknowledge that some of Scaevola's more angry missives have
> gotten quite personal at times.

Please note that I have been unfailingly polite to everyone here over
the last several months. Having kill-filed the two largest sources of
personal attacks, namely L. Sicinius Drusus (isn't it interesting that
_he_ would bring up the subject after attacking every post I've made?)
and L. Cornelius Sulla, I find that I have neither any occasion nor need
to be abrasive - which is exactly how I prefer it.

I joined this list in the hope of furthering my private study of Roman
history, and of associating with people who believe, as I do, that the
Virtues held in such respect by our spiritual ancestors are still
important. I have not and will not knuckle under to those who choose to
attack me personally, and - with just as much if not more emphasis - I
will not fail to be polite and gentle with those who are so with me. In
this regard, I remain as I have been, and as I hope to continue, always:

No better friend
No worse enemy
-- the real Lucius Cornelius Sulla's epitaph


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mens agitat molem.
The mind moves the matter.
-- Vergil, "Aenis"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17236 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola Gnaeus Equitius Marinus SPD.
[...]
> Please note that I have been unfailingly polite to everyone here over
> the last several months.

Yes, you have been, and I appreciate that.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17237 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM,
Salvete omnes,

I have a question here regarding the accuracies of Seutonius and
Tacitus. A while back I read that the vices of the emperors they
wrote about may have been greatly exaggerated since these historians
had family grudges or quarrels with them. Caligula has been sited as
a good example. One author I read said he was fair and potentially a
good administrator though his meningitis got him off wack somewhat.
They go on to say that his demise was more to do with losing control
with the senate etc.

I would value and appreciate comments from both you gentlemen since
history is your profession and expertise.

Thanks,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about.
It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying
things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and
entirely true."
~Oscar Wilde
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17238 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
So you have no problems with accusations of "Dishonesty" and
"Xenophobia" being leveled at a man who is a Consular, a Senator and a
Pontiff, a man who has served Nova Roma longer than you and Scaevola's
COMBINED times as citizens?

The Empty Xenophobia accusations that your friend has made, and that you
seem to have no objections to are really quite amusing to people who
know Fabius Maximus.

Fabius Maximus learned English as a second language. He spoke German
before he spoke English and done no more than insist that other
magistrates do the same thing he did, learn to communicate in the
offical working language of Nova Roma.

It's rather hard to be Xenophobic about non-native English speakers when
you are one yourself.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Bill Gawne wrote:

> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> [a lot, including]
>
> > Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture people
> > about proper decorum on this list,
>
> I have, yes, including you Senator. I prefer civil discourse, as you
> have said you do. It provides a better atmosphere in which we can all
> work together.
>
> > but we never see a lecture aimed at his fellow Cohorts member and
> > buddy who makes more personal attacks than all other posters combined.
>
> First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted
> here. Second, while I've often thought Scaevola's methods too
> abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I
> disagreed with the essential message he was conveying. Third, I
> think you're confusing the meaning of "personal attack" here, though
> I will acknowledge that some of Scaevola's more angry missives have
> gotten quite personal at times.
>
> > I Guess those lecture are reserved for people they disagree with.
>
> If that were the case you'd never have seen me take Diana Moravia
> to task so quickly last summer for a crosspost she made from another
> list to here. Nor would you have seen me take Marcus Octavius
> Germanicus to task for some posts he wrote in an exchange with you
> earlier this year.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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>
>
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>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17239 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Lectures / Meanings
Ladies and Gentlemen of Nova Roma;

I have been nominally off this list for some time dealing with my other
interests, and really not caring for the insulting banter back and forth
from those who are in the business of assasinating characters in place
of dealing with Nova Roma and her problems in a more effective and
constructive way.

I am informed that one of these citizens has chosen to mention my name
in one of his messages.

Apparently being associated with some other citizens in Nova Roma who
desire a closer control of thier famiies, these people do not understand
how a more independent family or Gens operates. In the Gens Minucia,
the people who join the Gens are considered to be independent in thier
thoughts and deeds. I choose to act more as a brother to those of my
Gens than as an all powerful father figure. So those of my Gens have a
right to say what they think is necessary and are, to the best of my
knowledge, quite willing take the responsibilityfor what they say.

In reviewing the comments of my Gens-mate who is being criticized, I can
see nothing of any great harm that was said and except for one point, I
pretty much agree with what my Gens-mate has indicated.

However, I must admit to not having any expertise in the matter of
"xenophobia." However, I have no proof that my Gens-mate has no skill
in these matters, as we have not discussed it at length. He is a very
clever individual, in my estimation, as one would expect from a teacher
and a skilled mariner, and I am proud to have him in my Gens. I thank
Senator Drusus for the opportunity to bring out some of the positive
aspects of the Gens Minucia and show my appreciation for those of my
Gens who have demonstrated over time a very keen insight, and the
understanding and desire to set things aright when those who are
clumsier or less concerned by the truth or pesonal injury that they
cause, upset the citizens of Noma Roma to no good purpose.

I am saddeded that Senator Drusus has viewed my comments over the years
as being directed at the slightest item with which I disagree. I can
tell you that I disagree with nearly everything that Senator Drusus does
or says, but I very seldom post upon such until his unusual method of
objecting to political concerns through the asassination of character
tops even the most liberal of individual patience.

I am somewhat confused also by Senator Drusus' use of a title that I am
not familiar with. There is no such title that I am aware of in the
parts of Nova Roma that I currently inhabit. Perhaps he has "borrowed"
the title in error from something that he has seen elsewhere, or perhaps
it is a title to which he aspires.

In any case my position as Paterfamilius to Gens Minucia has no
involvement in this aspect of Political discussion , and just as Senator
Sulla has objected in the past to a careless reference to the Gens
Cornelia, I object to the involvement of the Gens Minucia in poitical
debate, by an individual who apparently does not understand the desires
and agreementa of those within the Gens to which he refers.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17240 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm.
> One author I read said he was fair and potentially a
>good administrator though his meningitis got him off wack somewhat.
>They go on to say that his demise was more to do with losing control
>with the senate etc.

>I would value and appreciate comments from both you gentlemen since
>history is your profession and expertise.

Salvete Omnes:

The relevant chapters in Tacitus' Annals are lost. That leaves us with Suetonius and the account of Caligula's assassination in Flavius Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities." There are also several modern biographies, Birley's among them.

My take on the subject is that, despite some dubious efforts at rehabilitation, Caligula (or, "Gaius") remains an unattractive figure who, while reaping the plaudits of the masses on his accession, suffered some sort of fever or dementia c. 38 CE, and thereafter was never the same, emerging, during the last 2 years of his reign, as the monster familiar to anyone who has read Graves', "I, Claudius."

My college degrees are in musicology, so I offer the preceding only as the observations of an interested amateur.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)


Salvete omnes,

I have a question here regarding the accuracies of Seutonius and
Tacitus. A while back I read that the vices of the emperors they
wrote about may have been greatly exaggerated since these historians
had family grudges or quarrels with them. Caligula has been sited as
a good example.
Thanks,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about.
It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying
things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and
entirely true."
~Oscar Wilde






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17241 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Search for a candidate !
Salvete Quirites; et salve, C. Iuli Mari.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.IVL.MARIVS" <c_iul_marius@y...>
wrote:
> AVETE
>
> some days ago I saw in a candidacy statement of anybody of you (the
> candidates) a specific politic promise: to work to raise the number
> of new citizen.
>
> I don't remeber who is he/she.
>
> Can anyone help me to find he/she ?
>
> VALETE
> C IVL MARIVS

Well; I don't know if I have been the only candidate that has brought
that subject to this forum, but I have mentioned my desire to arrange
a recruitment campaign next year.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17242 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Some questions to the candidates
Salvete, Gemine, optime amice, god-like tribune,

I was wondering, by Iove, how to answer such a question on the better
way to answer to dearest Geminius, friend and giant on the
Tribuneship.

The fine post of Marinus has made me thinking on a Seneca saying that
I think I´ve been applying all my life with success. It is on ´De
Tranquilitate animi´ essay.

I don´t have exactly the words here, but he says the best thing to
spent your time is training your profession, and he cites the singer
and his voice, the gymnasta and his body, and the magistrate and his
virtue.

I have been applying this on life. A year and a half ago I´ve started
my career as ´factory-floor´ process engineer (I speak too few about
my personal life, let´s open the gates of the heart) on a very fine
hydrometalurgical non-ferrous plant of São Paulo. Blessed by queen
Minerva, patroness of the engineers (and logo of 99% of the
engineering colleges and labor counsels) I had the responsibility of
taking care of projects, testworks, processes and employees safety.

When I wondered ´what is the best think to a process engineer spend
his time?´ I´ve applied Seneca: ´Knowing the process as no one had
before. I´m paid to know how this factory works, its chemistry, its
complexities, its operations. I must apply to this with all my
forces´

And I´ve applied to this. Now, I can say have the honor and
recognization to be one of the youngest but already a ´reference´on
the process. For me its a honor saying now as Eliu said to Job: ´I´m
one of the younger, but I do take seat between the elders of the
city´ . Professionaly, I´m delighted. (Not that everything is only
happyness... I still fight for some $ raises $... eheheh)

But this is ex-Nova Roma. And how applying this to the Tribuneship?

What is the best thing a Tribune of the Plebis can apply his efforts?

To the Plebis... all times work on their interest. And the interest
of a stronger Plebis is the interest of all Nova Roma.

When I talk ´stronger´ plebis, I don´t mean CP or rivalty. I mean
even wiser ways of regulate itself. It shall be easy, because next
year the tribunes will be on the neck of a pretty good tribunitian
work this year.

My experience as plebeian magistrate this year made on my mind very
clear these necessities. Also, the hard work on quaestorship,
interpreter and scriba as also open my view. Besides Plebis be the
main concern, I would be a foul and inutile to the Res Publica if I
would limit myself to only one duty.

I have ideas of some legislations for next year on the matters:

a. Linguis Publicis
b. Translations production
c. Matters of magistrates and foruns of Plebean Ordo
d. Atributions of the Plebeian Aedilship, that IS NOT A LESSER
magistracy, like I´ve been hearding. (See T. Livius, D. Cassius and
Plutarch)
e. Corrections on the scope of works of the Aediles to better fit on
the Ancient way (you know all, I´ve exposed on my speeches contra Lex
Fabia Centuriata.)
f. Internatinalization of Nova Roma, legal status of the Provinces


However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we can
work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been talking
to many, and there problably will be a forum between many different
magistrates to write a final text.

It is realism. To approve a change, you need a big coalization of
forces, bringing many views to the initial questions.

Alas, there is other aspect of the Ancient Tribunes, very clear when
you read Livius. The Tribune must annoy. What? The Tribune must not
worry on ´popularity´ or ´fitness´. The Tribune is the inquiritor,
the questioner, the guy ´against the entablishment´, the vigile of
Libertas. The others magistrates must have pretty clear the Tribunes
will be vigilant, as their constitutional duties. This vigilance is
good for the Res Publica, although very boring personally.

And the main problem of NR? Spreading itself. For example, the
situation on Latin America is becoming critical, with negative
growing. I bring this, although local problem, because I´m the only
latin (how sweet is this word for me, latin, which origins were on
the Latium!) latin candidate to Tribuneship. And it has a deep
conection with ´linguis publicis´ I´ve cited above. But it is a deep
discussion for more people later.

The muse fails me now. I´ve talked to much. Because talking too much
is making lots of promises. And the worst thing is coming next year
and the promises.... well, I will not be the best neither the worst
Tribune of NR ever. I´ll do the small daily ant work, as my
possibilities and limitations.

But you can know some of my ideas here, and what expect of me.

I now raise the hands to Ceres Mother. As she shined to me all these
years, may she continues shining on next magistratures.



Abstract and Quick Checklist:

a. What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others?

Make Plebis stronger.

b. What would be your goals on that field?

Propose laws with other magistrates to fullfil these desires.

c. What are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?

Spreading of Nova Roma. There are some provinces with problems of
negative growing.


Valete bene in pacem deorum
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!!!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes.
>
> I'd like to ask some questions to our Censor Candidate Fabius
Maximus and to Tribunus Plebis Candidate Sicinius Drusus. Then for
all Tribunus Plebis Candidates.
>
> First for Fabius Maximus:
>
> - What kind of criterion would you apply to the censorial work?
Based on what? What languages are you skilled on? I remember that
spanish is not one of them, as we both now quite well. :-)
>
> Second for Sicinius Drusus:
>
> - Where is your declaration of candidacy? What are your goals as
Tribunus Plebis for 2757? Are you agree with the current legislation
passed this year in the plebeian Comitia? If so, why, and the same if
disagree. :-)
>
> For Tribunus Plebis in general:
>
> - What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others? What would be your goals on that field? What are
the main problems you identify for next year? Why?
>
>
> As a voter, I'd like to have this answers to make myself an idea of
where Nova Roma would go. And surely I'm not the only voter to ask
himself about. :-)
>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
> (as a potential voter)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17243 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Using the Contio
Salvete quirites,

I've been re-reading my copy of _As the Romans Did_ by Jo-Ann Shelton,
and it has reminded me that the Contio - the political meeting - was
used differently at different times throughout the history of the
Republic.

Currently in Nova Roma we only have Contio periods just before a vote
on proposed legislation or the annual elections for magistrates. I'd
like to expand the use of the Contio to provide opportunities for
citizens to participate more fully in the activities of our popular
assemblies. This would give us all time to examine legislative
proposals that I'll be developing and will hopefully prevent the
kind of hurt feelings my plebian colleague Faustus is currently
beset with due to the century point revision proposal.

I hope that my consular colleague, whoever that happens to be, and
the Plebian Tribunes, will also utilize the contio as a vehicle for
the development and discussion of legislative proposals.

It's my intention to ask for auguries of favorable times near the
beginning of each month in which I hold the Consular fasces. We could
have formal Contio intervals of two days for these planning meetings.
We'd still have the longer five day Contio right before a vote, but
the short Contio near the Kalends of the month should serve to get
new ideas put forth and start acting on them. I expect that discussions
begun in Contio will sometimes go on for weeks, but I don't want to keep
the Contio in formal session for too long, as it's otherwise liable to
overwhelm the mailing list.

So... thoughts? comments? mints?

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17244 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
It's ok Cornelius, everyone makes a mistake like that
at least once in their lives. ;) And Clinton was
more like Caligula. ;) But seriously, if you took
some time to research it, you could easily find
hundreds of examples where modern activities and even
people, mirror activities and people from the ancient
days.

M. Scipio Africanus

--- Charlie Collins <deist@...> wrote:
> Salve,
> Ooop's! My Bad! I just meant to send it to the
> Back Alley and I didn't
> realize the Main List was added when I sent it.
>
> Vale,
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
>
> --
> AIM: KSDeist
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17245 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:

[presumably addressing me]

> So you have no problems with accusations of "Dishonesty" and
> "Xenophobia" being leveled at a man who is a Consular, a Senator and a
> Pontiff, a man who has served Nova Roma longer than you and Scaevola's
> COMBINED times as citizens?

Whether or not someone is either xenophobic or dishonest has nothing at
all to do with what political offices that person has held, nor with
the amount of time served. If a citizen thinks there's reason to suspect
some undesirable character trait in a candidate, the citizen should feel
free to ask, no?

> Fabius Maximus learned English as a second language.

I had not known that. I do know that QFM is conversant in several
languages, and he does sometimes make odd little errors that have
caused me to wonder if English was not his native tongue. He is
certainly a literate and widely read man. Perhaps sometime when
he has a moment, he'll share a bit more about his personal past with
us here.

> It's rather hard to be Xenophobic about non-native English speakers when
> you are one yourself.

By definition, yes.

Before we go any further afield Senator, I'll reiterate what I've said
elsewhere about QFM's qualification to serve as Censor: I've no doubt
he's qualified. I've no doubt he can do the job well.

I happen to think CFQ is at least as qualified to do the job, and with only
one opening for Censor I'd prefer that CFQ got it. But I have absolutely
no doubt that in the fullness of time QFM will be Censor too. He's still
a fairly young and vigorous man, and I expect he'll be around Nova Roma
for a very long time.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17246 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:

> 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is from
> the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster might
> like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a
> little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.
>
> If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
> couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.

Has the same relevance to things Roman as offering condolences to our
Senior Consul when Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was
assassinated last September and the attacks that killed Italian MP's
in Nassiriyah earlier this month. But I don't recall anyone objecting
to that. I guess the much talked about building "internationalism" in
Nova Roma means any nation but the United States.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17247 From: John Walzer Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Come on, guys:

The assassination of the Swedish Minister was a horror, rightfully condemned by the world community. Bush's visit to the troops was an orchestrated piece of political opportunism. So, what do we have: conservatives idolize Bush, liberals loath the SOB - and what does any of this have to do with Nova Roma? Can we please get back on track?

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:29 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:

> 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is from
> the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster might
> like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a
> little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.
>
> If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
> couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.

Has the same relevance to things Roman as offering condolences to our
Senior Consul when Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was
assassinated last September and the attacks that killed Italian MP's
in Nassiriyah earlier this month. But I don't recall anyone objecting
to that. I guess the much talked about building "internationalism" in
Nova Roma means any nation but the United States.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17248 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Walzer" <jwalzer5@c...> wrote:
> Come on, guys:
>
> The assassination of the Swedish Minister was a horror,
rightfully condemned by the world community. Bush's visit to the
troops was an orchestrated piece of political opportunism. So, what
do we have: conservatives idolize Bush, liberals loath the SOB - and
what does any of this have to do with Nova Roma? Can we please get
back on track?
>
> L. Suetonius Nerva

Has absolutely no relevance to things Roman. If one is going to
protest about one intrusion of things outside of the scope of
Romanesque onto the ML, then protest them all otherwise one looks like
a hypocrite. I don't protest against any intrusion of modern goings
on in the world be it events in Timbuktu or Cornfield, Kansas onto the
ML because I view the ML much like the old Roman Forum. People of
Rome gathered and discussed and sometimes heatedly debated things
happening in their time and place I don't see why we should or would
want to be any different.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17249 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Language Abilities
Salvete omnes,

It is sure interesting to learn 2nd, 3rd and 4th languages. People
who grow up in an ethinic family living in an Enlish country sure
have a good advantage in learning. Still, when some people say they
can speak 5, 6 7 or more languages I am somtimes a little skeptical
and ask them what their definition of fluency is.

Assuming we start talking around 3 years old, it takes about 13 or 14
years of education to be at a level high enough to pass exams at say
a university level. To order a beer, ask bathroom direction, how are
you etc you can learn in short time in many languages but to have
high level conversations is another. To function at a high level in
5, or more languages would therefore take one 50+ years if you think
about the time frame.

Now from what I can see your 2nd or 3rd languages are never going to
be as perfect as your native tongue. Certainly one can learn the
vocabulary, grammar, and structure of another language given time but
I still notice that many of those speaking English as a second
language after many years still have problems understanding plays on
words, puns, jokes etc. Also if the languages are related in
structure, one can learn faster. For example one could pick up some
profeceincy learning Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese quicker
than someone who is learning German, Arabic and Manderin Chinese.

I'm sure there are always some exceptions and linguistic geniuses out
there who function in other languages as quick and as good as some 9
year olds who compose music, do concerts or advanced calculus at
those ages. I am mainly talking about the norm.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17250 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<lsicinius@y...> wrote:
> Oh Boy!!!
>
> That is just what we need!
>
> A Censor with a well known habit of apointing Bloated Staffs.
>
> I Guess we can look forward to having two dozen Scribes with access to
> everyone's personal records.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>

There is nothing in the NR records about me that can't be had by
anyone paying my local municipality $25.00 and walking out of city
hall with the city census on a computer disk. As for my email
address, if spammers posing as "Mustafda Kumbyna" and a horde of other
relatives of various former African dictators needing my help to get
their looted money out of a Swiss bank can get it, trying to sell me
viagra, or come visit their porno site, so can anyone else. The
potential of two dozen NR scribes having access to that is the least
of my worries.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17251 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Answers of Sicinius Drusus
L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS wrote:

> Salvete omnes.
>
> I'd like to comment Sicinius Drusus answers.
>
> - Where is your declaration of candidacy?
>
> I Intended to post it earlier this week, but the Senior Consul
> promulgated a series of leges in the midst of the campaign, so I
> postponed making the declaration until after the flood of posts on the
> leges subsided. I Would like it read instead of being lost among all the
> other posts.
>
> LDGS: Good, I hope we'll see it soon to compare whith the others.
>
> - What are your goals as Tribunus Plebis for 2757?
>
> I Will attempt to get the Senate to loosen it's privacy seal with
> respect to the Tribunes so they can do a better job of keeping the
> citizens informed on the Senate's meetings.
>
> LDGS: This is a policy I support.
>
> I Will work with the Consuls to restore the historic condition of both
> tribal assemblies having the same voting procedures.
>
> LDGS: You mean you'll try to homogenize all the Comitia electoral
> systems? How? What is this historical condition, if I may ask so?

In Antiquita the two assemblies that voted by tribes used the same
voting procedures, difering only that Patricians were barred from voting
in the Plebian assembly. The Centuries had thier own seperate procedure.
We have gotten away from that and now have different procedures when the
citizens vote by tribe in the People's assembly and when the Plebs vote
by tribe in the Plebian assembly. This situation is ahistoric and
confusing to the voters. I would like t o see the two tribal assembiles
use the same voting procedures. I feel that the one the Plebs have
adapted is the prefered of the two, but I'm willing to work with the
Consuls on this matter so that we can have the same procedures in both
tribal assemblies.

>
>
> I Will be starting a debate on reorganizing the tribes on a more
> historic basis. Historicly Tribal assignment in the later stages of the
> Republic was made by family rather than by a random process, but that
> will be a problem given our ahistoric Gens structure. The Early tribes
> were assigned by region. As new regions gained the citizenship a tribe
> was set up for them until the number reached 35, so regional assignment
> is a possible model.
>
> LDGS: I'd like to hear more about the system you have in mind,
> Sicinius Drusus. As far as I know, there are some other proposals
> about. What do you think of all them?

The only plan is a preferance for the historic. In June of 2754 Consul
Vedius and Tribune Labienus set out to reform a VERY ahistoric Tribune's
office. Before they promulgated any leges they held an open discussion
on the matter on Nova Roma's main list and some of the sugestions that
were made were in the laws that were promulgated. I Will follow thier
example and have an open debate on the matter where all citizens will
have a chance to be heard before a law is promulgated.

On this matter my "staff" that works on the law will be larger than even
the Senior Consul's staff consisting of all of Nova Roma. ;-)

>
>
> I Will be doing the "Little things" debate I started this summer on a
> regular basis, looking for the little things that are easy to fix, but
> are being ignored.
>
> LDGS: I think I don't fully understand that of "Little things" because
> I didn't know there were a division between "little" and "big" things
> to be done. What does this "little things" mean?

The Little things was about very minor items like a dead link on a web
page, things that are easy to fix, and which get overlooked while
everyone is considering major items like Gens reform.

>
> I Will NOT be starting on some grand plan to overhaul Nova Roma. That
> might disapoint the hard core political diehards, but constant political
> fights aren't the reason most of us applied for citizenship. I haven't
> forgotten this section from Nova Roma's constution
>
> Please note that politics is just one of seven subjects that Nova Roma
> has a mission to promote, and politics does not have the first postion
> on the list. I intend to make the other six more promanant in Nova Roma.
>
>
> LDGS: This point is another one I don't understand fully well. I think
> that politicals are to improve the six points you quoted, not only a
> single point more.

Allmost all of Nova Roma's political discussions have been about the
structure of the Micronation. Look at our laws. How many do you see
about anything other that the political structure of Nova Roma? When was
the last political debate over allocating resources for spreading Roman
Culture?

The debates about the structure of the Micronation are shoving
everything else to the side.

> And there is a problem in mind that make me feel some incoherence
> about your speech. If you are going to improve homogeneous electoral
> procedures and to change Tribe system, there is indeed a reform in
> Nova Roma, and a great one. Those you call "diehards" or intransigent
> that makes the "Think Tanks" of Nova Roma are then very respected if
> no change can be done, but only the changes they allow?

I have two major changes to make, that is hardly a Grand plan to
overhaul Nova Roma. I'm not embarking on some crusade to convert Nova
Roma into a more historic organization in a single year, I'm just
promissing that I will only initate these two changes in government and
NOTHING else. Some people actually joined Nova Roma for something other
than arguing over politics, and I intend to work on thier behalf too.

>
>
> I think politics is a very important part in every society as far as
> they set what is to be done and what not. If you pledge for no
> political action, not action indeed is done, nor action is done
> without a political purpose in sight.

OK, My "political" goal is to give the Religio and the rest of Roman
Culture equal time in this organization. Nova Roma is more than just a
Micronation's political structure

>
> Then what worries me more about your statements is this:
>
> *Are you going to do only your factional (This "hard core political
> diehards") duties or Tribunus Plebis constitutional duties? (And this
> question can be for all Candidates)

The Tribunes constitutional duties, along with all the other magistrates
duties include following Nova Roma's primary function as defined in
the Constution's preamble

" The primary functions of Nova Roma shall be to promote the study and
practice of pagan Roman civilization, defined as the period from the
founding of the City of Rome in 753 BCE to the removal of the altar of
Victory from the Senate in 394 CE and encompassing such fields as
religion, culture, politics, art, literature, language, and philosophy"

Not just the duties in Section IV A 7 of the constution.

>
>
> - Are you agree with the current legislation passed this year in the
> plebeian Comitia?
>
> Yes, though the law on reporting Senate meetings will have to be
> modified if I suceed in getting the Senate to loosen it's seal, and the
> law on voting may have to be modified depending on what Agreement I can
> reach with the Consuls. The goal will be to have a historic voting
> procedure.
>
> LDGS: I support that again. It is a good view, candidate.
>
> - If so, why, and the same if disagree. :-)
>
> The Law on voting was more historic than the previous procedure. The
> other two established some badly needed procedures.
>
> LDGS: I think I'm lost. You mean that Moravia Aventina's law is more
> historic or the previous one? You mean the other two laws on voting or
> the Senate report of Moravia Aventina and the Potestate law I wrote
> (Those two) were badly needed procedures? I think I don't fully
> understand that, Sicinius Drusus.
>
> For Tribunus Plebis in general:
>
> - What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
> between each others?
>
> As good as possible. I will work with the other Magistrates on matters
> where we agree, but no Tribune should ever be expected to go against his
> beliefs just because the other magistrates disagree with him.
>
> LDGS: Well, I hope this independence of thought is not against the
> "hard core political diehards" you mentioned. :-)
>
> I think a Tribunus Plebis is a defendant of the Res Publica, of the
> Plebs and the best help for all plebeian magistracies.
>
> - What would be your goals on that field?
>
> To get the other Magistrates to concetrate more on the Religio and Roman
> Culture and less on politics.
>
> What are the main problems you identify for next year?
>
> Politics dominating every aspect of Nova Roma
>
> Why?
>
> Because it's been that way for years.
>
> LDGS: Again I think that you try to diminish politics when they are a
> way to do things (Right now you're in political debate of what to do
> or not!). I agree we need to improve this points, but a correct policy
> can help more than no policy at all.
>
> Sicinius Drusus, I have some doubts yet. I hope the rest of candidates
> will join this debate. :-)
>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17252 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
> There is nothing in the NR records about me that can't be had by
> anyone paying my local municipality $25.00 and walking out of city
> hall with the city census on a computer disk. As for my email
> address, if spammers posing as "Mustafda Kumbyna" and a horde of
other
> relatives of various former African dictators needing my help to get
> their looted money out of a Swiss bank can get it, trying to sell me
> viagra, or come visit their porno site, so can anyone else. The
> potential of two dozen NR scribes having access to that is the least
> of my worries.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus

Salve Quinte,

Well as Drusus himself pointed out to some of us the other day,
hopefully the anti-spam legislation well come quickly enough and if
the spammers break the law then they will sure have a chance to
field - test their viagra,member length drugs and porno site lessons
when old Bubba grabs a hold of them in prison.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17253 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Lectures / Meanings
jmath669642reng@... wrote:

> Ladies and Gentlemen of Nova Roma;
>
> I have been nominally off this list for some time dealing with my other
> interests, and really not caring for the insulting banter back and forth
> from those who are in the business of assasinating characters in place
> of dealing with Nova Roma and her problems in a more effective and
> constructive way.
>
> I am informed that one of these citizens has chosen to mention my name
> in one of his messages.
>
> Apparently being associated with some other citizens in Nova Roma who
> desire a closer control of thier famiies, these people do not understand
> how a more independent family or Gens operates. In the Gens Minucia,
> the people who join the Gens are considered to be independent in thier
> thoughts and deeds. I choose to act more as a brother to those of my
> Gens than as an all powerful father figure. So those of my Gens have a
> right to say what they think is necessary and are, to the best of my
> knowledge, quite willing take the responsibilityfor what they say.
>
> In reviewing the comments of my Gens-mate who is being criticized, I can
> see nothing of any great harm that was said and except for one point, I
> pretty much agree with what my Gens-mate has indicated.

Does that include this one?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/12543

or this one?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/12550

>
>
> However, I must admit to not having any expertise in the matter of
> "xenophobia." However, I have no proof that my Gens-mate has no skill
> in these matters, as we have not discussed it at length. He is a very
> clever individual, in my estimation, as one would expect from a teacher
> and a skilled mariner, and I am proud to have him in my Gens. I thank
> Senator Drusus for the opportunity to bring out some of the positive
> aspects of the Gens Minucia and show my appreciation for those of my
> Gens who have demonstrated over time a very keen insight, and the
> understanding and desire to set things aright when those who are
> clumsier or less concerned by the truth or pesonal injury that they
> cause, upset the citizens of Noma Roma to no good purpose.
>
> I am saddeded that Senator Drusus has viewed my comments over the years
> as being directed at the slightest item with which I disagree. I can
> tell you that I disagree with nearly everything that Senator Drusus does
> or says, but I very seldom post upon such until his unusual method of
> objecting to political concerns through the asassination of character
> tops even the most liberal of individual patience.
>
> I am somewhat confused also by Senator Drusus' use of a title that I am
> not familiar with. There is no such title that I am aware of in the
> parts of Nova Roma that I currently inhabit. Perhaps he has "borrowed"
> the title in error from something that he has seen elsewhere, or perhaps
> it is a title to which he aspires.

Ahh,
For the Humor impaired, Grand High Poobah is a joke term for an overly
grand title, a bit of levity aimed at the structure of the Consular
Cohort... er Cohorde... oops Cohors. :-)

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17254 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 14:28, Shane Evans wrote:
> It's ok Cornelius, everyone makes a mistake like that
> at least once in their lives. ;) And Clinton was
> more like Caligula. ;) But seriously, if you took
> some time to research it, you could easily find
> hundreds of examples where modern activities and even
> people, mirror activities and people from the ancient
> days.

Salve,

my worry is that it wil turn into another Carrhae (Crassus marched off
to Mesopotamia with lots of men and was defeated. The survivors were
enslaved and some returned home during Augustus's reign, some 20 years
later).
I don't think Clinton is like Gaius Caligula. Nero is perhaps a better
comparison. Caligula was a nasty man in a position of supreme authority
and openly seduced anything with a pulse.Nero may have had his failings,
but he was not a nasty man (Ok, his attempts at his mother's life would
not gain him many votes fom the Humane Society. All of the Claudians
were a little bit unstable).
BTW the Roman Republic serves as a very good argument against heriditary
titles. When men became emperor due to the support of the Senate or the
previous emperor,(i.e. earned it due to their personal qualities) you
got good rulers. When the sons of emperors were given power, it turned
out badly. The only exception I can think of is Titus, son of Vespasian,
who died before he had much of a chance to do anything bad.
Julius Caesar earned power
Augustus earned power
Tiberius inherited it
Caligula inherited it
Claudius given it by the praetorians. Turned out so-so
Nero inherited it
Galba, Vitellus, Ortho never got anywhere
Vespasian earned it
Titus see note above
Domitian inherited it
Nerva Earned it (senate voted him in)
Trajan earned it
Hardian earned it
Antonius Pius earned it
Marcus Aurelius earned it

We don't have a herdtitary football team, why do we have hereditary
rulers? (You might have guessed that I'm not a royalist.)
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17255 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 16:29, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:
>
> > 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is from
> > the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster might
> > like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a
> > little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.
> >
> > If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
> > couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.
>
> Has the same relevance to things Roman as offering condolences to our
> Senior Consul when Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was
> assassinated last September and the attacks that killed Italian MP's
> in Nassiriyah earlier this month. But I don't recall anyone objecting
> to that. I guess the much talked about building "internationalism" in
> Nova Roma means any nation but the United States.

Salvete,

I hardly think that the President's morale-boosting visit to his army
ranks anywhere near the tragic deaths of Anna Lindh or the murder of the
Italian MPs.
It is quite right and proper to offer condolences to individuals whose
parent nations have suffered some disaster. Showing solidarity helps
those people realise that they are not alone and that people around the
world do care. Only a boor would object.
The President's visit is not such an event and should not be posted in
this group. I stand by what I wrote, that this is not a general news
list.
Internationalism means not posting US domestic news items to this group
(whose second largest community is Italian) and recognising that other
people around the planet are not interested in US news. Internationalism
does include the USA, but American Nova Romans must also act in the same
spirit, and not post domestic news to an international group.

valete,

Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17256 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
While I agree that President Bush's trip was a bit off topic, I can't
help but wonder if we would have seen the same strident protests about
an item regarding President Gore (if he had won) or President Chirac on
this list? The tone of the protests seem as political as the original post.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Neil Lucock wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 16:29, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:
> >
> > > 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here
> is from
> > > the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster
> might
> > > like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a
> > > little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.
> > >
> > > If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a
> > > couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.
> >
> > Has the same relevance to things Roman as offering condolences to our
> > Senior Consul when Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was
> > assassinated last September and the attacks that killed Italian MP's
> > in Nassiriyah earlier this month. But I don't recall anyone objecting
> > to that. I guess the much talked about building "internationalism" in
> > Nova Roma means any nation but the United States.
>
> Salvete,
>
> I hardly think that the President's morale-boosting visit to his army
> ranks anywhere near the tragic deaths of Anna Lindh or the murder of the
> Italian MPs.
> It is quite right and proper to offer condolences to individuals whose
> parent nations have suffered some disaster. Showing solidarity helps
> those people realise that they are not alone and that people around the
> world do care. Only a boor would object.
> The President's visit is not such an event and should not be posted in
> this group. I stand by what I wrote, that this is not a general news
> list.
> Internationalism means not posting US domestic news items to this group
> (whose second largest community is Italian) and recognising that other
> people around the planet are not interested in US news. Internationalism
> does include the USA, but American Nova Romans must also act in the same
> spirit, and not post domestic news to an international group.
>
> valete,
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17257 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Let's not talk politics on the ML, that's what the Back Alley is for;
more importantly "can't help but" is a double negative...(the
horror, the horror).
Romans; your grammar please!!

vale, Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> While I agree that President Bush's trip was a bit off topic, I
can't
> help but wonder if we would have seen the same strident protests
about
> an item regarding President Gore (if he had won) or President
Chirac on
> this list? The tone of the protests seem as political as the
original post.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17258 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, Senator & Consul K. Fabius Quintilianus, and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

My thanks to you both for your clear and comprehensive
answers.

I hope this brief discussion will help to put into
perspective the absurdly voluminous debate about which
of the candidates for the highest magistracy, the
moral guardianship of the republic, has more computers.

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17259 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Salve Marinus,

> First Diana, I don't know if you have kept to the tradition of Thanksgiving
> since you moved to Belgium, but if you do, I wish you the happiest of
> Thanksgivings. You've had an eventful year, and in spite of some of the
> negative parts, I think you've much to be thankful for. You have had the
> honor of being elected Tribunis Plebis, and that's quite a special thing.

Thanks! And no I don't celebrate Thanksgiving. But no pumpkin pie since Nov 1992 hurts :-((( In
fact, since it is one of those moving around days, I never even remember it until someone says
'Happy Thanksgiving' to me like Palladius did this year. I would celebrate but I can't get pumpkin
pie, sweet potatoes and stuffing unless I travel to Brussels, find an American import store and then
spend about 10 bucks for a can of pumpkin. I coincidentally found Peter Pan Peanut Butter and Fluff
in a local store for a whopping 7 bucks a jar! Ok, I bought in anyway and had marshmallow stuck to
my face for about three days :-)))

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17260 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Diana, m'dear,

Next time you visit, I'm making my pumpkin cheesecake for you!

Arnamentia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Marinus,
>
> > First Diana, I don't know if you have kept to the tradition of
Thanksgiving
> > since you moved to Belgium, but if you do, I wish you the
happiest of
> > Thanksgivings. You've had an eventful year, and in spite of some
of the
> > negative parts, I think you've much to be thankful for. You have
had the
> > honor of being elected Tribunis Plebis, and that's quite a
special thing.
>
> Thanks! And no I don't celebrate Thanksgiving. But no pumpkin pie
since Nov 1992 hurts :-((( In
> fact, since it is one of those moving around days, I never even
remember it until someone says
> 'Happy Thanksgiving' to me like Palladius did this year. I would
celebrate but I can't get pumpkin
> pie, sweet potatoes and stuffing unless I travel to Brussels, find
an American import store and then
> spend about 10 bucks for a can of pumpkin. I coincidentally found
Peter Pan Peanut Butter and Fluff
> in a local store for a whopping 7 bucks a jar! Ok, I bought in
anyway and had marshmallow stuck to
> my face for about three days :-)))
>
> Vale,
> Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17261 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
G.Cornelius Severus - Salve!

'Tis a lovely theory, Cornelius, except:

I. The decision of who was 'good' or 'bad' is highly subjective.
II. What records suvive for us to draw conclusion from are those the Christians allowed to survive - an extra subjective factor.
III. A partial list like this is selective - your own subjectivity is showing, friend!
IV. Roman 'historians' have their own political biases & agendas: Note how often the 'charges' against the 'bad' are identical
V. You neglect many who seized power (by your standards "earned" it) yet were very poor leaders of the Empire.
VI. Times were different, situations different - it's far too generalizing to treat them as if they all served under like circumstance
VII. A key factor omitted is their education and upbringing: These are better indicators than merely whose son they were.
VIII.Glittering generalities look good because the writer shined it up himself, so my Philosophy professor taught me!
IX. I AM a Monarchist, so I freely admit that my views are as subjective as your own!
X. Gordian III was classically raised, inherited his position, did very well - until Christian soldiers in the ranks assassinated him!

Thanks for the opportunity to 'knock the dust' off of my training in Logic! It was a fun exercise over my morning coffee!
You DO realize, I hope, that this was just a friendly exercise and in no way is it meant as any slight towards you!
Merely meant as a caution to all against generalizations.

Vale
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 11:34 AM
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!

<html><body>


<tt>
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 14:28, Shane Evans wrote:<BR>
> It's ok Cornelius, everyone makes a mistake like that<BR>
> at least once in their lives.  ;)  And Clinton was<BR>
> more like Caligula.  ;)  But seriously, if you took<BR>
> some time to research it, you could easily find<BR>
> hundreds of examples where modern activities and even<BR>
> people, mirror activities and people from the ancient<BR>
> days.  <BR>
<BR>
Salve,<BR>
<BR>
my worry is that it wil turn into another Carrhae (Crassus marched off<BR>
to Mesopotamia with lots of men and was defeated. The survivors were<BR>
enslaved and some returned home during Augustus's reign, some 20 years<BR>
later). <BR>
I don't think Clinton is like Gaius Caligula. Nero is perhaps a better<BR>
comparison. Caligula was a nasty man in a position of supreme authority<BR>
and openly seduced anything with a pulse.Nero may have had his failings,<BR>
but he was not a nasty man (Ok, his attempts at his mother's life would<BR>
not gain him many votes fom the Humane Society. All of the Claudians<BR>
were a little bit unstable).<BR>
BTW the Roman Republic serves as a very good argument against heriditary<BR>
titles. When men became emperor due to the support of the Senate or the<BR>
previous emperor,(i.e. earned it due to their personal qualities) you<BR>
got good rulers. When the sons of emperors were given power, it turned<BR>
out badly. The only exception I can think of is Titus, son of Vespasian,<BR>
who died before he had much of a chance to do anything bad.<BR>
Julius Caesar earned power<BR>
Augustus earned power<BR>
Tiberius inherited it <BR>
Caligula inherited it<BR>
Claudius given it by the praetorians. Turned out so-so<BR>
Nero inherited it<BR>
Galba, Vitellus, Ortho never got anywhere<BR>
Vespasian earned it<BR>
Titus see note above<BR>
Domitian inherited it<BR>
Nerva Earned it (senate voted him in)<BR>
Trajan earned it<BR>
Hardian earned it<BR>
Antonius Pius earned it<BR>
Marcus Aurelius earned it<BR>
<BR>
We don't have a herdtitary football team, why do we have hereditary<BR>
rulers? (You might have guessed that I'm not a royalist.)<BR>
G Cornelius Severus<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17262 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> Has absolutely no relevance to things Roman. If one
> is going to
> protest about one intrusion of things outside of the
> scope of
> Romanesque onto the ML, then protest them all
> otherwise one looks like
> a hypocrite.

I think perhaps there is a middle way. Of course
anyone is, and should remain, free to discuss in the
public forum anything he or she pleases. But as things
not strictly relevant to Nova Roma go, I think it's
possible to divide them into two categories.

On the one hand, we can see that some non-NR events
are so profoundly important that they affect us as
human beings regardless of nationality, and these
certainly merit discussion here because, as you say,
we are human as well as Roman. On the other, there are
those which aren't; these certainly shouldn't be
banned, but should perhaps be discouraged.

Of course the placing of that dividing line is always
going to be subjective. An event in one's own country
will often affect one more profoundly than the same
event elsewhere, and may seem more relevant to the
common humanity of all than it really is. But we can
all agree, I think, about some items: it would be
absurd to suggest that only German and Austrian Jews
should be concerned about the holocaust, or that only
New Yorkers should be concerned about the attacks on
the World Trade Centre; at the other end, it would
absurd for me to argue that the traffic lights
recently erected in Cornmarket Street, Oxford should
be of interest to everyone on this list.

I don't know whether the poster thought the visit of
President Bush to Iraq was something we should all be
concerned about as humans, but it's hard for me to see
why it should be: the UK's Foreign Secretary, Jack
Straw, also made a top secret visit to Iraq a day or
two ago, and I wouldn't bother telling anyone else
about that. But think one can plausibly argue that
expressing regret, shock or condolence at the
unexpected and violent death of anyone, whether
Swedish, Italian, Brazilian or American, does
contribute to our common humanity in a beneficial way.

Forgive me for waxing philosophical; perhaps I'm
unconsciously making up for the fact that, being
currently unopposed, I have no vigorous campaigning to
do. :)

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17263 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Salve, Marine,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> [a lot, including]
>
> > Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture
people
> > about proper decorum on this list,
>
> I have, yes, including you Senator. I prefer civil discourse, as
you
> have said you do. It provides a better atmosphere in which we can
all
> work together.
>
> > but we never see a lecture aimed at his fellow Cohorts member and
> > buddy who makes more personal attacks than all other posters
combined.
>
> First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted
> here. Second, while I've often thought Scaevola's methods too
> abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I
> disagreed with the essential message he was conveying.

I think you prove Drusus' point here. When you are in essential
agreement with a poster's point of view, you tend to overlook how he
or she makes his point no matter how rude. That individual is spared
your famous, drab and generally inappropriate public lecture, though
you may scold he or she privately. You are selective about who you
attempt to lecture.

> Third, I
> think you're confusing the meaning of "personal attack" here, though
> I will acknowledge that some of Scaevola's more angry missives have
> gotten quite personal at times.

Funny, I don't recall you ever commenting on them publicly or
lecturing him, though I know you have privately.

> > I Guess those lecture are reserved for people they disagree with.
>
> If that were the case you'd never have seen me take Diana Moravia
> to task so quickly last summer for a crosspost she made from another
> list to here. Nor would you have seen me take Marcus Octavius
> Germanicus to task for some posts he wrote in an exchange with you
> earlier this year.

How do these token examples help your point? Are you saying you
agreed with their posts but took them to task for how they said what
they did?

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17264 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 18:15, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> While I agree that President Bush's trip was a bit off topic, I can't
> help but wonder if we would have seen the same strident protests about
> an item regarding President Gore (if he had won) or President Chirac on
> this list? The tone of the protests seem as political as the original post.
>
Salvete,
I don't care who the President is, that bit of *news* isn't appropriate
for this group.
(Actually, I'm one who dislikes Bush for his politics but having heard
his speeches while he was in England, I have a higher opinion of him
than before his visit).
I'd have the same attitude about any such news. The bit about the tone
of the protests being "political" is avoiding the point. US domestic
news about the Republicans or Democrats does not belong here.
valete
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17265 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I said:

> P.S. Senator Maximus wrote:
> > Salvete Rhomanoi
>
> Have you become a Greek, Senator? ;)

It has been brought to my attention that this question
could come cross as disparaging of Greeks or Greek
culture.

Of course I intended no such implication, and I must
emphasise that I mean no insult to Greeks or the
Hellenistically-inclined.

And now I really shall shut up. Until tomorrow.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17266 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
Salve Amice!

>A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
>Maximus, Senator & Consul K. Fabius Quintilianus, and
>all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
>My thanks to you both for your clear and comprehensive
>answers.
>
>I hope this brief discussion will help to put into
>perspective the absurdly voluminous debate about which
>of the candidates for the highest magistracy, the
>moral guardianship of the republic, has more computers.

OK! Then there is no meaning with saying that I have three computers. ;-)
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17267 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 18:31, rory12001 wrote:
> Let's not talk politics on the ML, that's what the Back Alley is for;
> more importantly "can't help but" is a double negative...(the
> horror, the horror).
> Romans; your grammar please!!
>
> vale, Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > While I agree that President Bush's trip was a bit off topic, I
> can't
> > help but wonder.....snip

Salvete,

The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not act as
a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says, but his
grammar is fine.

valete,
G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17268 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments...
Salve Drusus,

> The Poobah's Pater, Senator Audens is famed for delivering public
> admonishments at posters for the slighest item he deems insulting, but
> he remains silent when a member of his Gens attacks other posters.

Well if Senator Audens wins as Praetor, he'll be lecturing Scaevola as well as a whole lot more of
us!! Me included by the way, whether I am a Consul or not.. I doubt that I'd be able to talk about
being woken up by my Beef Bayonet poking me in the back because some people might misunderstand and
think that I was referring to a Purple Headed Yogurt Slinger.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17269 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> I would celebrate but I can't get pumpkin pie, sweet potatoes and stuffing[...]

If my friends ever get MPT (Mass Transport Protocol) figured out for
the Internet, I'll send some to you at the very first opportunity.
In the meantime, perhaps I could offer to get you some pumpkin pie
should you be able to make it to Roman Days next year.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17270 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW! was Net access for magistrates
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 18:48, Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia wrote:
>
> I coincidentally found Peter Pan Peanut Butter and Fluff

Salvete,

OK, give us poor ignorant Brits a clue. What on earth is Fluff?

valete,

Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17271 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 18:47, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:
> G.Cornelius Severus - Salve!
>
> 'Tis a lovely theory, Cornelius, except:
snip
You are, of course, quite correct in all your points.
> VIII.Glittering generalities look good because the writer shined it up himself, so my Philosophy professor taught me!
I like this statement very much, it's one I'll remember and use myself,
if I may? Thank your philosophy teacher for me.

> X. Gordian III was classically raised, inherited his position, did very well - until Christian soldiers in the ranks assassinated him!
Notice I stopped at Domitian?
> Thanks for the opportunity to 'knock the dust' off of my training in Logic! It was a fun exercise over my morning coffee!
> You DO realize, I hope, that this was just a friendly exercise and in no way is it meant as any slight towards you!
> Merely meant as a caution to all against generalizations.
Of course. The pleasure is mine in learning from you.
Tibi gratias ago
valete,
Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17272 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Question for the candidates for censor
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 19:00, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> I said:
>
> > P.S. Senator Maximus wrote:
> > > Salvete Rhomanoi
> >
> > Have you become a Greek, Senator? ;)
>
Timeo danaos et dona ferentes

Sorry,
I just had to get that in before someone else did!

Valete,
Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17273 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus wrote:
>
> Salve, Marine,

Salve Palladi,

I had written:
> > First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted
> > here. Second, while I've often thought Scaevola's methods too
> > abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I
> > disagreed with the essential message he was conveying.
>
> I think you prove Drusus' point here. When you are in essential
> agreement with a poster's point of view, you tend to overlook how he
> or she makes his point no matter how rude.

No Praetor, I don't excuse incivility. I do, however, often skip
over posts once it becomes clear to me that a discussion has nothing
in it that bears on why I feel required to read this mailing list.
I do what I can, as I can, to carry out the oath I took to always
act in the best interest of Nova Roma.

I hope you're enjoying a pleasant Thanksgiving weekend, and if you're
having to work I hope the work isn't too onerous.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17274 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: PLEASE VOTE!
Salvete Quirites!

This is a reminder to vote to all citizens.

There is a vote over one lex going on in the Comitia Populi Tributa,
the lex is "Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum".

There is a vote over two leges going on in the Comitia Centuriata,
the leges are "Lex Fabia Centuriata" and "LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE
MINORUM".

PLEASE VOTE!

Governors, please send a reminder, if You haven't done so, to your
provincial lists!

Also observe that voting shall end at 18.00 Roman time Sunday the
30th of November.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17275 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Salvete Omnes,
I thought I had explained that the post had been sent to the ML by
mistake and apologized for sending it. It was not made as a political
statement. At the time it was "Breaking News" and I thought the Back
Alley was the prefect place to bring it up as current events ARE on
topic there. Please, lets end this thread NOW and if you wish to carry
on this discussion go to the Back Alley where it was meant to be.

Vale,

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

PS: It's not Cornfield, KS it's Wichita, KS :-)

--
AIM: KSDeist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17276 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW!
Salve Marinus,

> In the meantime, perhaps I could offer to get you some pumpkin pie
> should you be able to make it to Roman Days next year.

I'll be there!! Your offer of pumpkin pie would be accepted with great enthusiasm!! I'll send you a
friendly reminder a few days before Roman Days :-))) And next June since I won't be in the US for a
funeral like I was this year (knock on wood) I'll bring a suitcase full of typical Belgian cakes and
BEER. Lindeman's Kriek (a sweet-ish Cherry Beer) is particularly good as well as the doubles, the
triples and the Trappist beers (made by monks).

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17277 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Diana's Wants Pumpkin Pie NOW!
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
>
> Salve Marinus,
>
> > In the meantime, perhaps I could offer to get you some pumpkin pie
> > should you be able to make it to Roman Days next year.
>
> I'll be there!! Your offer of pumpkin pie would be accepted with great
> enthusiasm!!

Excellent. Those treats you mentioned would be quite welcome too,
and some of that amazing Belgian chocolate would not go amiss.

We should probably belay the rest of this conversation until after
the election, lest the populace think the consular candidates are
trying to unduely influence each other. (I'd put an emoticon here,
but I refuse to use the things. Just so you know I wrote that
entirely in jest.)

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17278 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: Decorum and posting styles
Salve Marinus! Salvete omnes,

If only more people were as civilized as you, Marinus - a true Patrician Gentleman! - then our politics would be much more clear, more informative, and less hostile (many people find it quite distressing at times).

To all of our worth Candidates (& there are a lot of excellent people running for office), I beseech you to observe the example set by Diana and Marinus earlier.
Think about this before you post a scathing remark: If you were browsing the web, discovered Nova Roma for the first time, would you be interested in joining after reading some of the political Postings we have been seeing? I point this out because in the last two weeks I have seen only one "Hi, I'm new here!" notice where normally we see about two per week. Clearly, the tone of the politics are turning some observers "off", and they never introduce themselves. So please keep it civil.

Another valuable lesson to be gleaned from Marinus' message is this: A lot of this could be sent privately, instead of being in everyone's face on the List. Policy debates and questions to the Candidates are perfectly legitimate and belong on the list; but the quips-in-reply should be sent privately.

After some errors of ettiquette on my own part, I have learned to appreciate the Private Reply - but I'm still new and learning the local culture and manners. Our Candidates and their Questioners are people of great experience and intellect and should not be making such "Newbie" mistakes in ettiquette (and if it is deliberate, and not a mistake, that makes it even worse!).

This statement is intended "In General" - it is by no means targeted at any individuals, so please receive it in the spirit with which it is meant - a simple polite request to one and all.

Valete
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 7:55 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Decorum and posting styles

<html><body>


<tt>
Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[a lot, including]<BR>
<BR>
> Let's not forget Marinus either, he has been known to lecture people<BR>
> about proper decorum on this list,<BR>
<BR>
I have, yes, including you Senator.  I prefer civil discourse, as you<BR>
have said you do.  It provides a better atmosphere in which we can all<BR>
work together.<BR>
<BR>
> but we never see a lecture aimed at his fellow Cohorts member and<BR>
> buddy who makes more personal attacks than all other posters combined.<BR>
<BR>
First of all, not everything I have to say to people gets posted<BR>
here.  Second, while I've often thought  Scaevola's methods too<BR>
abrasive I'm hard pressed to remember even one instance where I <BR>
disagreed with the essential message he was conveying.  Third, I<BR>
think you're confusing the meaning of "personal attack" here, though<BR>
I will acknowledge that some of Scaevola's more angry missives have<BR>
gotten quite personal at times.<BR>
<BR>
> I Guess those lecture are reserved for people they disagree with.<BR>
<BR>
If that were the case you'd never have seen me take Diana Moravia<BR>
to task so quickly last summer for a crosspost she made from another<BR>
list to here.  Nor would you have seen me take Marcus Octavius<BR>
Germanicus to task for some posts he wrote in an exchange with you<BR>
earlier this year.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<BR>
Candidate for Consul<BR>
<a href="http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html">http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17279 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double
negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer you
to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:

"Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps
the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
mishandlings of negatives."
>
How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of Latin
authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica


Salvete,
>
> The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not
act as
> a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
> established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says, but
his
> grammar is fine.
>
> valete,
> G Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17280 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-11-28
Subject: Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
Salve Pomponia!

I did no know that not!
Hi, Pomponia, it is good to see you back again.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double
> negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer
you
> to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:
>
> "Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps
> the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
> detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
> mishandlings of negatives."
> >
> How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of
Latin
> authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
>
> Salvete,
> >
> > The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not
> act as
> > a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
> > established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says,
but
> his
> > grammar is fine.
> >
> > valete,
> > G Cornelius Severus