Salve Pomponia!

I did no know that not!
Hi, Pomponia, it is good to see you back again.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double
> negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer
you
> to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:
>
> "Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps
> the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
> detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
> mishandlings of negatives."
> >
> How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of
Latin
> authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
>
> Salvete,
> >
> > The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not
> act as
> > a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
> > established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says,
but
> his
> > grammar is fine.
> >
> > valete,
> > G Cornelius Severus

Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:

> Assuming we start talking around 3 years old, it takes about 13 or 14
> years of education to be at a level high enough to pass exams at say
> a university level. To order a beer, ask bathroom direction, how are
> you etc you can learn in short time in many languages but to have
> high level conversations is another. To function at a high level in
> 5, or more languages would therefore take one 50+ years if you think
> about the time frame.

It isn't a linear process Quint Lani. As I understand the matter from
my friend the professor of Slavic Languages and Literature, for most
polyglots there is the first language, which takes longest to learn
and becomes most strongly imprinted, and then there are "other languages."
People who learn other languages while quite young can often become
as adept in them as in their "mother tongue" by the time they've attained
that high level of skill you note.

I'm told that some accomplished polyglots in the Diplomatic Corps of
various countries are able to pick up a new language in six or even
fewer weeks. My source for that is herself a polyglot working for the
US State Department, so I'm inclined to accept her word on it.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

In a message dated 11/28/03 1:25:37 AM, ben@... writes:

<< First, your sarcastic subject, quite in keeping with the Dignitas one

> would expect of a would-be Consul and a top-notch international
> communicator: >>

Sarcasm? This comment coming from the cohors "attack on people who disagree
us" department? How can you say this with a straight face? Just wondering if
this isn't the pot calling the kettle, black?

Q. Fabius Maximus

Salve Pomponia Fabia

> "Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps
> the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
> detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
> mishandlings of negatives."

However, a double negative is not always a grammatical error. Such
phrases as "not uncommon" are perfectly valid English constructions.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare

Oh how sweet to return to the wit that is Nova Roma!
Quinte amice, how I've missed you all;)
vale Pomponia (who is recovering from a minor but pesky eye problem)

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve Pomponia!
>
> I did no know that not!
> Hi, Pomponia, it is good to see you back again.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...>

wrote:

> > Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double
> > negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer
> you
> > to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English

Usage:

> >
> > "Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style,

perhaps

> > the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
> > detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
> > mishandlings of negatives."
> > >
> > How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of
> Latin
> > authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?
> > vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> > >
> > > The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does

not

> > act as
> > > a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
> > > established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says,
> but
> > his
> > > grammar is fine.
> > >
> > > valete,
> > > G Cornelius Severus

Salve Gnae,

I heard such claims but I never have yet to see them proven. If you
are not speaking the languages the people claim to know then how do
you know how well they speak. For example I learned French at a young
age (didn't keep up with it) and Spanish later on. There is no way I
could learn enough Arabic in 6 weeks to read the Koran for example or
enough Russian in the same time to negotiate a trading pact.

My teachers in the past at the Berlitz School of languages say that
the average time to learn a language to get by or survive on a basic
daily level is 6 months, to have a good intelligent conversation
without big errors etc, 18 months to 3 years. Chinese, Arabic,
Russian and other languages with different alphabets take about 3x
longer.

Here is an article from an ESL teacher in California talking about
English as a second language. She hums and haws a little about
people claiming to be linguistic in 6 monthe (let alone 6 weeks):


Learning fluent English requires many years of effort and daily
exposure


Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn English as a
second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight years.
Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned
English in six months.'"

have an opinion about bilingual education. It appears that I am not
alone. Everybody seems to have an opinion. I would like to address
some of the questions people have about bilingual education.

The award for the most frequently asked question goes to: "Why don't
they just learn English?" The implication here is that some students
out there are not trying hard enough to learn English or that some
teachers are holding them back. The truth is that students do want to
learn English and teachers are teaching it. There's no doubt about
this: students and parents want English to be taught at school.
Believe me. It is taught in bilingual classrooms here in Santa Cruz,
from the beginning of kindergarten and continuing on up through the
grades. Bilingual teachers are as dedicated to teaching their
students to speak English as they are to giving their students a good
education.

Recently in this newspaper I read that bilingual teachers do not
teach lessons in English until about 4th grade. Readers should
understand that, ideally, English is taught on a daily basis. This
starts when students enter school, and increases every year until
students are ready to have all of their classes taught in English. In
the meantime, while students are acquiring English oral skills,
bilingual teaching techniques involve presentation of academic
lessons taught in the child's dominant language. This is not done to
inhibit English skill growth, but to allow these students to learn
how to read, write and do other skills while they learn English. The
teaching of reading cannot be delayed until a child is a competent
English speaker.

This brings up another frequently pondered and debated question. "How
long does it take to learn English as a second language?" Bilingual
experts say it takes six to eight years. Everyone else seems to know
someone or be someone who "learned English in six months."

Here's the truth: in 6 months you can learn enough English to "get
by" in certain social situations. People will say that you speak
English, but you cannot understand complex, rapid oral English, the
kind of language necessary for demanding schoolwork. That competency
level is attained after several years of being continuously exposed
to fluent English speakers and getting continuous practice.


....

I tend to agree that that situation reverses more or less the same
for English people learning a second or 3rd language well.
Now I knew some WW11 vetrans who had to go to various areas in Europe
during the war and took crash 3 month language course. That sure
helped them to survive and get around but they quickly forgot it all
after leaving the area. Anyway, as the lady said, many people have
different opinions on this issue. I'd really love to find a course
anywhere that would teach me to be proficient in a language in 6
weeks.

Regards,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:
>
> > Assuming we start talking around 3 years old, it takes about 13
or 14
> > years of education to be at a level high enough to pass exams at
say
> > a university level. To order a beer, ask bathroom direction, how
are
> > you etc you can learn in short time in many languages but to have
> > high level conversations is another. To function at a high level
in
> > 5, or more languages would therefore take one 50+ years if you
think
> > about the time frame.
>
> It isn't a linear process Quint Lani. As I understand the matter
from
> my friend the professor of Slavic Languages and Literature, for most
> polyglots there is the first language, which takes longest to learn
> and becomes most strongly imprinted, and then there are "other
languages."
> People who learn other languages while quite young can often become
> as adept in them as in their "mother tongue" by the time they've
attained
> that high level of skill you note.
>
> I'm told that some accomplished polyglots in the Diplomatic Corps of
> various countries are able to pick up a new language in six or even
> fewer weeks. My source for that is herself a polyglot working for
the
> US State Department, so I'm inclined to accept her word on it.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

In a message dated 11/28/03 3:36:24 PM, hermeticagnosis@... writes:

<< Another valuable lesson to be gleaned from Marinus' message is this: A lot
of this could be sent privately, instead of being in everyone's face on the
List. Policy debates and questions to the Candidates are perfectly legitimate
and belong on the list; but the quips-in-reply should be sent privately. >>

Salvete

This is why we preface our remarks with the heading "Campaign"

So people realize that they are reading campaign rhetoric.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 20:38, rory12001 wrote:

> Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double
> negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer you
> to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:
>
> "Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps
> the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is
> detected with the least sense of proper shame, are various
> mishandlings of negatives."
> >
> How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of Latin
> authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
>
> Salvete,
> >
> > The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not
> act as
> > a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well
> > established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says, but
> his
> > grammar is fine.

Valete,

The words "but wonder" means the same as "do anything else except
wonder". The full sentence could have these words substituted and still
retain the sense of the original.
While Fowler et al may well be correct in their advice, you are
misapplying their rule. However, if you can remove the negative you say
exists and still retain the sense if the original, I will be happy to
accept your view.
To appreciate Latin authors we need to understand Latin grammatical
rules. How many people actually read Latin authors in the original? I
suspect that most people read translations, so the issue of grammatical
rules is resolved by the translator.
valete
G Cornelius Severus

Salvete

Come on now, good Citizens: The gentleman posted "Bush visits Baghdad" admitted it was an error, that he had put Nova Roma's address on it by mistake.

There is no need for personal arguments to arise out of a simple address error!
If for some reason someone simply feels they must respond, please do so privately - this List is getting a ridiculous number of Postings - well over a hundred a day, many of which do nothing to further Nova Roma or our current political debate.
Please send the quips and comments meant for an individual directly and Privately to that individual.

Thank you
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!

<html><body>


<tt>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:<BR>
<BR>

> 2, What relevance does this have to Nova Roma? Not everyone here is from<BR>
> the USA and this is *not* a general news mailing list. The poster might<BR>
> like to avoid spamming us with US political news in future and think a<BR>
> little before before typing such material in a Roamn discussion group.<BR>
> <BR>
> If some posts from the UK are a bit late, it's because there are a<BR>
> couple of faults on the Atlantic cables.<BR>

<BR>
Has the same relevance to things Roman as offering condolences to our<BR>
Senior Consul when Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh was<BR>
assassinated last September and the attacks that killed Italian MP's<BR>
in Nassiriyah earlier this month.  But I don't recall anyone objecting<BR>
to that.  I guess the much talked about building "internationalism" in<BR>
Nova Roma means any nation but the United States.  <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Q. Cassius Calvus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Salve Tite Labiene;
gratias tibi ago, as I rushed off to Fowler and thus did learn
about:

'Not' in Meiosis and Periphrasis..It was a favorite figure of
Milton's: Eve was 'not unamazed' at finding that the snake could
speak, and Comus's well-placed words were baited with 'reasons not
unplausible'. It is by this time a faded or jaded elegance, this
replacing of a term by the negation of its opposite." {and much, much
more at enjoyable length}

So now I have some idea of meiosis and periphrasis thanks to you!
Nova Roma, I love you well
vale Pomponia

>
> However, a double negative is not always a grammatical error. Such
> phrases as "not uncommon" are perfectly valid English constructions.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> "Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping?

Use

> them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the

more

> merit is in your bounty."
> -Shakespeare

In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@... writes:

<< Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn English as a

second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight years.

Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned

English in six months.'"

>>

Salvete

You can communicate roughly in English is six months. However, you will make
as many mistakes as you will get it right. 3-4 years of constant daily use,
and you become accomplished. You will still make small mistakes like "make" a
bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected. Spelling is
harder.
It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only because I
learned English at a very early age. Still when Bacchus is upon me, it
resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will so confirm.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

Salve Quint Lani, et salvete quirites,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:

> I heard such claims but I never have yet to see them proven.

Nor have I. But I do trust that those exceptional polyglots are
capable of the remarkable feat. I certainly agree that on average,
it takes a lot longer to learn a second language.

To get to the gist of what I was trying to say earlier:

* Once you've learned one additional language, learning others becomes
less difficult. So the linear model of learning you suggested doesn't
hold.

* Given that QFM learned English as a second language early in his life,
I can easily see how he might be conversationally fluent in several
other languages as well.

My comments about the truly exceptional polyglots were somewhat of a
tangent.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salve Gnaee Corneli;
please excuse my error for leaving out 'help' I am typing in a
monocular fashion. So the double negative is 'cannot help but'
'cannot but' is fine, so is 'cannot help,''cannot help but' is an
abomination.
As for Latin authors, yrs truly as well as others in my Latin
Grammar Course at Academia Thules have a similar desire to read them
in the original and appreciate their subtlety.
As a matter of practicality just to post a greeting one needs to
know the Vocative Case. It due to my excellent instructors G.Salix
Astur & C.Curius Saturninus that I know to address you as Gnaee
Corneli!
vale Pomponia Fabia

>
> The words "but wonder" means the same as "do anything else except
> wonder". The full sentence could have these words substituted and

still

> retain the sense of the original.
> While Fowler et al may well be correct in their advice, you are
> misapplying their rule. However, if you can remove the negative you

say

> exists and still retain the sense if the original, I will be happy

to

> accept your view.
> To appreciate Latin authors we need to understand Latin grammatical
> rules. How many people actually read Latin authors in the original?

I

> suspect that most people read translations, so the issue of

grammatical

> rules is resolved by the translator.
> valete
> G Cornelius Severus

Salve Quinte;
as a person who studied French, Russian, in elementary, high school
and then college (adding Italian and Japanese) may I say that 6 mos.
can be done but only in a related language.
If you are able and know deeply the structure and vocabulary of one
Romance Language it is entirely possible for someone like myself to
speak educated Portuguese in 6 months, or for Slavic Languages
knowing Russian makes it entirely possible to pick up let's say
another Western Slavic language like Czech or Serbian. It's easy as
you know the grammatical structure, useful forms and have a cache of
similar vocabulary.
Additionally the more erudite the topic the greater is the use of
words with Greek or Latin roots.
With languages such as Basque or Albanian, it would take years to
build up a vocabulary from scratch as well as grammatical forms.
I'm sure somewhere there is a polymath who can do anything in 6
mos. but for the able speaker - impossible.
vale Pomponia


Anyway, as the lady said, many people have

> different opinions on this issue. I'd really love to find a course
> anywhere that would teach me to be proficient in a language in 6
> weeks.
>
> Regards,
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:
> >
> > > Assuming we start talking around 3 years old, it takes about 13
> or 14
> > > years of education to be at a level high enough to pass exams

at

> say
> > > a university level. To order a beer, ask bathroom direction,

how

> are
> > > you etc you can learn in short time in many languages but to

have

> > > high level conversations is another. To function at a high

level

> in
> > > 5, or more languages would therefore take one 50+ years if you
> think
> > > about the time frame.
> >
> > It isn't a linear process Quint Lani. As I understand the matter
> from
> > my friend the professor of Slavic Languages and Literature, for

most

> > polyglots there is the first language, which takes longest to

learn

> > and becomes most strongly imprinted, and then there are "other
> languages."
> > People who learn other languages while quite young can often

become

> > as adept in them as in their "mother tongue" by the time they've
> attained
> > that high level of skill you note.
> >
> > I'm told that some accomplished polyglots in the Diplomatic Corps

of

> > various countries are able to pick up a new language in six or

even

> > fewer weeks. My source for that is herself a polyglot working

for

> the
> > US State Department, so I'm inclined to accept her word on it.
> >
> > --
> > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> > Candidate for Consul
> > http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

The time it takes to learn a language varries from person to person.
Heinrich Schliemann the man who discovered the site of Troy had the
remarkable ability of learning to read a language in 6 weeks and to be
fluent in it in 3 months, while a person with little talent for
languages can spend years working on a second language before becomming
fluent.

L. Sicinius Drusus

rory12001 wrote:

> Salve Quinte;
> as a person who studied French, Russian, in elementary, high school
> and then college (adding Italian and Japanese) may I say that 6 mos.
> can be done but only in a related language.
> If you are able and know deeply the structure and vocabulary of one
> Romance Language it is entirely possible for someone like myself to
> speak educated Portuguese in 6 months, or for Slavic Languages
> knowing Russian makes it entirely possible to pick up let's say
> another Western Slavic language like Czech or Serbian. It's easy as
> you know the grammatical structure, useful forms and have a cache of
> similar vocabulary.
> Additionally the more erudite the topic the greater is the use of
> words with Greek or Latin roots.
> With languages such as Basque or Albanian, it would take years to
> build up a vocabulary from scratch as well as grammatical forms.
> I'm sure somewhere there is a polymath who can do anything in 6
> mos. but for the able speaker - impossible.
> vale Pomponia
>
>
> Anyway, as the lady said, many people have
> > different opinions on this issue. I'd really love to find a course
> > anywhere that would teach me to be proficient in a language in 6
> > weeks.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > > Quintus Lanius Paulinus writes:
> > >
> > > > Assuming we start talking around 3 years old, it takes about 13
> > or 14
> > > > years of education to be at a level high enough to pass exams
> at
> > say
> > > > a university level. To order a beer, ask bathroom direction,
> how
> > are
> > > > you etc you can learn in short time in many languages but to
> have
> > > > high level conversations is another. To function at a high
> level
> > in
> > > > 5, or more languages would therefore take one 50+ years if you
> > think
> > > > about the time frame.
> > >
> > > It isn't a linear process Quint Lani. As I understand the matter
> > from
> > > my friend the professor of Slavic Languages and Literature, for
> most
> > > polyglots there is the first language, which takes longest to
> learn
> > > and becomes most strongly imprinted, and then there are "other
> > languages."
> > > People who learn other languages while quite young can often
> become
> > > as adept in them as in their "mother tongue" by the time they've
> > attained
> > > that high level of skill you note.
> > >
> > > I'm told that some accomplished polyglots in the Diplomatic Corps
> of
> > > various countries are able to pick up a new language in six or
> even
> > > fewer weeks. My source for that is herself a polyglot working
> for
> > the
> > > US State Department, so I'm inclined to accept her word on it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> > > Candidate for Consul
> > > http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

>

[...] I coincidentally found Peter Pan Peanut Butter and Fluff

> in a local store for a whopping 7 bucks a jar! Ok, I bought in

anyway and had marshmallow stuck to

> my face for about three days :-)))
>

At last! Someone else who knows about the wonders of peanut butter
and marshmallow sancwiches! My partner, who is from the Lacis Magni
area, thinks I'm nuts whenever I mention it! Are you originally from
Nova Brittania too? It seems like that's the only place where people
have ever heard of it.

Vale,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

Salvete Omnes
what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by
poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or didn't
answered because the english was imperfect.
During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to the
Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about
important matters. I never received answers... The only answer was
written by the author of this words after several weeks and he said
me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the meaning
of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a thing
I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's
reasonable and polite that he could be different from me... And I
smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my
languages, the italian and its dialects.

So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could accomplish his
duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The number
of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as well as
possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if this
candidate will be elected.

I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...

P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the language
abilities of this candidate.

P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad english
and I must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english tongue.
I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However I
don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the
italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french with
some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I improve
my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:
>
> << Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn English
as a
>
> second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight
years.
>
> Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned
>
> English in six months.'"
>
> >>
>
> Salvete
>
> You can communicate roughly in English is six months. However,
you will make
> as many mistakes as you will get it right. 3-4 years of constant
daily use,
> and you become accomplished. You will still make small mistakes
like "make" a
> bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.
Spelling is
> harder.
> It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only
because I
> learned English at a very early age. Still when Bacchus is upon
me, it
> resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will so
confirm.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Salvete Pomponia, Equiti Marine, Druse et Q.F. Maxime,

Thank you all for your input to my post. Good points from all of you
and I enjoy the conversation.

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 04:30:48PM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 11/28/03 1:25:37 AM, ben@... writes:
>
> << First, your sarcastic subject, quite in keeping with the Dignitas one
> > would expect of a would-be Consul and a top-notch international
> > communicator: >>
>
> Sarcasm? This comment coming from the cohors "attack on people who disagree
> us" department? How can you say this with a straight face? Just wondering if
> this isn't the pot calling the kettle, black?

Ah, yes; the famous QFM/Drusus/Sulla method of attacking the character
of the person in order to cover up the fact that they can't answer the
accusation. Thank you, Maximus; I believe this evidence of your ability
to face issues with integrity and honest, straightforward communication
will be sufficient for the voters to make their own decisions. I'm done
with the issue, since you've proven my point... and quite a bit more
besides.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Graeca sunt, non leguntur.
It is Greek, you don't read that.
-- N/A

You are most welcome Gn. Cornelius, and I assure you it works both ways! Never a day goes by on this List that I don't learn a dozen interesting things I didn't know before! This is a wonderful place to be, to give your brain a bit of excercise!

My Professor was Dr. Peale at Longwood College, son of the famous Rev. Peale. A Gentleman of wit and intellect to whom I owe much.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 2:12 PM
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!

<html><body>


<tt>
On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 18:47, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:<BR>

> G.Cornelius Severus - Salve!<BR>
> <BR>
>   'Tis a lovely theory, Cornelius, except:<BR>

snip<BR>
You are, of course, quite correct in all your points.<BR>

> VIII.Glittering generalities look good because the writer shined it up himself, so my Philosophy professor taught me!<BR>

I like this statement very much, it's one I'll remember and use myself,<BR>
if I may? Thank your philosophy teacher for me.<BR>
<BR>

> X.   Gordian III was classically raised, inherited his position, did very well - until Christian soldiers in the ranks assassinated him!<BR>

Notice I stopped at Domitian? <BR>

>   Thanks for the opportunity to 'knock the dust' off of my training in Logic!  It was a fun exercise over my morning coffee!<BR>
>   You DO realize, I hope, that this was just a friendly exercise and in no way is it meant as any slight towards you!<BR>
>   Merely meant as a caution to all against generalizations.<BR>

Of course. The pleasure is mine in learning from you. <BR>
Tibi gratias ago<BR>
valete,<BR>
Gaius Cornelius Severus<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Salve My dear friend L. Suetonius Nerva, Who said in part

" My college degrees are in musicology, so I offer the preceding only as the observations of an interested amateur."

PLEASE reassure us the in case a five breaks out in Nova Roma you do not know how to play the lyre.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)



> One author I read said he was fair and potentially a
>good administrator though his meningitis got him off wack somewhat.
>They go on to say that his demise was more to do with losing control
>with the senate etc.

>I would value and appreciate comments from both you gentlemen since
>history is your profession and expertise.

Salvete Omnes:

The relevant chapters in Tacitus' Annals are lost. That leaves us with Suetonius and the account of Caligula's assassination in Flavius Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities." There are also several modern biographies, Birley's among them.

My take on the subject is that, despite some dubious efforts at rehabilitation, Caligula (or, "Gaius") remains an unattractive figure who, while reaping the plaudits of the masses on his accession, suffered some sort of fever or dementia c. 38 CE, and thereafter was never the same, emerging, during the last 2 years of his reign, as the monster familiar to anyone who has read Graves', "I, Claudius."

My college degrees are in musicology, so I offer the preceding only as the observations of an interested amateur.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)


Salvete omnes,

I have a question here regarding the accuracies of Seutonius and
Tacitus. A while back I read that the vices of the emperors they
wrote about may have been greatly exaggerated since these historians
had family grudges or quarrels with them. Caligula has been sited as
a good example.
Thanks,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about.
It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying
things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and
entirely true."
~Oscar Wilde






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Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!

My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled at the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail of that type - shocked, really! While your English has a definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what you were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated each letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that you bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please - clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International our Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to learn in time.

As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only experience of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either: They seem to have internal communications problems there. I too wrote them more than once, and received no response: My only experience like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to - complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They must just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!

I maintain personal correspondence with some of our Pontifices, including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he has said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago it would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know, because that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is no longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed allow him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away from any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against him: He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a good thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no longer happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can assure you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in the future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment needed to send and receive even in the Wilderness.

I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is only one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against him. The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and does reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which shows that he is not the problem but a solution.

Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude to you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every post you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am sure to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep writing to the rest of us who appreciate your words!

Vale bene
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete Omnes<BR>
what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by <BR>
poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or didn't <BR>
answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to the <BR>
Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about <BR>
important matters. I never received answers... The only answer was <BR>
written by the author of this words after several weeks and he said <BR>
me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the meaning <BR>
of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a thing <BR>
I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's <BR>
reasonable and polite that he could be different from me... And I <BR>
smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my <BR>
languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
<BR>
So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could accomplish his <BR>
duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The number <BR>
of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as well as <BR>
possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if this <BR>
candidate will be elected.<BR>
<BR>
I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
<BR>
P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the language <BR>
abilities of this candidate. <BR>
<BR>
P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad english <BR>
and I  must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english tongue. <BR>
I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However I <BR>
don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the <BR>
italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french with <BR>
some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I improve <BR>
my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Valete<BR>
Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>

> <BR>
> In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Email Sandra Nichols    "How long does it take to learn English <BR>

as a <BR>

> <BR>
> second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight <BR>

years. <BR>

> <BR>
> Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned <BR>
> <BR>
> English in six months.'"  <BR>
> <BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Salvete<BR>
> <BR>
> You can communicate roughly in English is six months.  However, <BR>

you will make <BR>

> as many mistakes as you will get it right.  3-4 years of constant <BR>

daily use, <BR>

> and you become accomplished.  You will still make small mistakes <BR>

like "make" a <BR>

> bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.  <BR>

Spelling is <BR>

> harder.  <BR>
> It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only <BR>

because I <BR>

> learned English at a very early age.  Still when Bacchus is upon <BR>

me, it <BR>

> resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will so <BR>

confirm.<BR>

> <BR>
> Valete<BR>
> Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>

<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Livia Cornelia Hibernia"
<livia_cornelia_hibernia@c...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
> <diana@p...> wrote:
> >
> [...] I coincidentally found Peter Pan Peanut Butter and Fluff
> > in a local store for a whopping 7 bucks a jar! Ok, I bought in
> anyway and had marshmallow stuck to
> > my face for about three days :-)))
> >
>
> At last! Someone else who knows about the wonders of peanut butter
> and marshmallow sancwiches! My partner, who is from the Lacis Magni
> area, thinks I'm nuts whenever I mention it! Are you originally from
> Nova Brittania too? It seems like that's the only place where people
> have ever heard of it.
>
> Vale,
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia
> (Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

Fluffer-nutters and red hotdogs washed down with Moxie or Birch Beer.
Nova Brittanian cuisine at its finest. <G> For those not in the know
Moxie is a soft drink that has a very unique taste that can not be
described. Birch Beer is a mint flavored soft drink with a taste
similar to peptobismol. Red hotdogs are just that hotdogs with a red
dye in the casing.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

"The Work of Porphyry entitled _Concerning Cult Images_":

http://cosmopolis.com/texts/porphyry-on-images.html

This work by the famous late antique Neoplatonic philosopher is extant
only in fragments quoted by the the Christian Eusebius of Caesarea in
his _Preparation for the Gospel_. The reconstructed text is taken
from Edwin Wilson's 1903 translation of Eusebius and edited by Colph
Gaines.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve Q. Cassius Calvus,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@a...> wrote:

> Fluffer-nutters and red hotdogs washed down with Moxie or Birch
> Beer. Nova Brittanian cuisine at its finest. <G> For those not in
> the know Moxie is a soft drink that has a very unique taste that
> can not be described. Birch Beer is a mint flavored soft drink
> with a taste similar to peptobismol. Red hotdogs are just that
> hotdogs with a red dye in the casing.

...And topped off with a maple-walnut cone covered in jimmies!
Oh! Stop! You're making me wicked home sick! :)
I can almost smell the baked beans and brown bread steaming in the
oven!

I have not been back in Nova Britannia in two years and that was for
my father's funeral, so it was not exactly a pleasure trip. It was
also in March, just after a three foot blizzard. Not exactly the time
for hot dogs nor maple-walnut ice cream. Nor for my other N.B.
favorite, a Lime Rickie!

For anyone who is totally confused by this conversation, just check
out the "Wicked Good Guide to Boston English" at this URL:

http://www.boston-online.com/glossary.html

NOTE: To Citizens who are not native speakers of English, trust me,
this is really English, it's just the strange variety of it spoken in
parts of Nova Britannia.

Vale,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@...> wrote:
Internationalism

> does include the USA, but American Nova Romans must
> also act in the same
> spirit, and not post domestic news to an
> international group.

Just a point of order if I may. When a news agency
from a country other than the US printed, broadcast,
or shouted to their people about this visit, then it
became international news. :)

M. Scipio Africanus

__________________________________
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--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
wrote:

> While I agree that President Bush's trip was a bit
> off topic, I can't
> help but wonder if we would have seen the same
> strident protests about
> an item regarding President Gore (if he had won) or
> President Chirac on
> this list? The tone of the protests seem as
> political as the original post.

<just smiles and tosses another log on the fire>
If Gore had been elected, we probably wouldn't be in
Iraq. And Chirac? He's French right? ;)



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Salve Cordus!

While the original posting was an error, this does bring up a good point, escpecially given the large volume on the List:
Perhaps it's time to create a specifically Social List. Leave the Main List for Nova Roma official business, create a Social List
for just hanging out, talking about books, pies & beer, macronational politics, whatever.

Just a suggestion. What do you think? An idea whose time has come? Business List - Social List split.

Vale
~ Servius


-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 10:55 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!

<html><body>


<tt>
A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and<BR>
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
<BR>
I hope you're well; I'm well.<BR>
<BR>

> Has absolutely no relevance to things Roman.  If one<BR>
> is going to<BR>
> protest about one intrusion of things outside of the<BR>
> scope of<BR>
> Romanesque onto the ML, then protest them all<BR>
> otherwise one looks like<BR>
> a hypocrite.<BR>

<BR>
I think perhaps there is a middle way. Of course<BR>
anyone is, and should remain, free to discuss in the<BR>
public forum anything he or she pleases. But as things<BR>
not strictly relevant to Nova Roma go, I think it's<BR>
possible to divide them into two categories.<BR>
<BR>
On the one hand, we can see that some non-NR events<BR>
are so profoundly important that they affect us as<BR>
human beings regardless of nationality, and these<BR>
certainly merit discussion here because, as you say,<BR>
we are human as well as Roman. On the other, there are<BR>
those which aren't; these certainly shouldn't be<BR>
banned, but should perhaps be discouraged.<BR>
<BR>
Of course the placing of that dividing line is always<BR>
going to be subjective. An event in one's own country<BR>
will often affect one more profoundly than the same<BR>
event elsewhere, and may seem more relevant to the<BR>
common humanity of all than it really is. But we can<BR>
all agree, I think, about some items: it would be<BR>
absurd to suggest that only German and Austrian Jews<BR>
should be concerned about the holocaust, or that only<BR>
New Yorkers should be concerned about the attacks on<BR>
the World Trade Centre; at the other end, it would<BR>
absurd for me to argue that the traffic lights<BR>
recently erected in Cornmarket Street, Oxford should<BR>
be of interest to everyone on this list.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know whether the poster thought the visit of<BR>
President Bush to Iraq was something we should all be<BR>
concerned about as humans, but it's hard for me to see<BR>
why it should be: the UK's Foreign Secretary, Jack<BR>
Straw, also made a top secret visit to Iraq a day or<BR>
two ago, and I wouldn't bother telling anyone else<BR>
about that. But think one can plausibly argue that<BR>
expressing regret, shock or condolence at the<BR>
unexpected and violent death of anyone, whether<BR>
Swedish, Italian, Brazilian or American, does<BR>
contribute to our common humanity in a beneficial way.<BR>
<BR>
Forgive me for waxing philosophical; perhaps I'm<BR>
unconsciously making up for the fact that, being<BR>
currently unopposed, I have no vigorous campaigning to<BR>
do.  :)<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs<BR>
<a href="http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams">http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams</a><BR>
</tt>

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Salve Pomponia

No disrespect intended, but while you may be "Book-Right", the simple reality is that English is a constantly evolving Language, which the Grammarians follow in the wake of coming up with "rules". Just like the current usage of "they" instead of the awkward "he/she": They is a plural, or I should say WAS a plural, because it is now common usage to use 'they' as a singular, as in "Before an employee returns to work from a restroom break, they must first wash their hands".
This is in common use, it is acceptable idiom English even though you Grammarians hate it.
Go ahead and hate it: After another year or two of use, it will be included in the Dictionary and become "official" English.
English has always been somewhat chaotic, and not "grammar friendly". I've read old Grammar books, just for kicks, and the system has been significantly rewritten in under a century! It will be rewritten again by the end of this century.
It will include "cannot help but", because it is in common usage. Use leads Grammar, although Grammarians would like very much to believe that Grammar dictates Use. Sorry, but it's the use that wins every time. Then the Teachers have to order new textbooks.
People will speak as people choose to speak. There is no "right" or "wrong". If communication was successful, you did it right.
That is, after all, the purpose of Language: To Communicate. Your lovely rules are just an attempt to describe and explain something, but it cannot dictate that Something because this particular Something, Language, is dynamic, living and ever changing, while the Grammarians rules are static and dead.
They DO apply to so called "high English" but that is not what is commonly spoken. I LIKE the Queen's English myself, and all of its proprieties, but expecting it on the Internet is an effort in futility.
Sorry, but that's just today's reality in America. Just look in a Chat room if you don't believe me.
In the US, "Proper English" is a non sequetor - or a really funny joke.

Vale
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
Sent: Nov 28, 2003 12:38 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!

<html><body>


<tt>
  Eheu! It may be in common use but 'cannot help but' is a double <BR>
negative; it is either 'cannot' or 'but' in the sentence. I refer you <BR>
to Strunk & White or to Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage:<BR>
  <BR>
"Of actual blunders, as distinguished from taste and style, perhaps <BR>
the commonest, and those that afflict their author when he is <BR>
detected  with the least sense of proper shame, are various <BR>
mishandlings of negatives."<BR>

><BR>

How can we expect cives to learn and appreciate the greatest of Latin <BR>
authors if we remain so ignorant of our own grammatical rules?<BR>
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Salvete,<BR>

> <BR>
> The phrase "can't help but" is correct English and "but" does not <BR>

act as<BR>

> a negative in that sentence. L. Sicinius Drusus is using a well<BR>
> established English idiom. I might disagree with what he says, but <BR>

his<BR>

> grammar is fine. <BR>
> <BR>
> valete,<BR>
> G Cornelius Severus<BR>

<BR>
</tt>

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Salve Servius,

While I can see your motivation for having a Social List (not to be
confused with socialist). I have always thought of the Main Nova Roma
list as being our virtual Forum and from everything that I have ever
read about the Forum it was hardly all business either.

That is why I tend to be very tolerant of all the chatter and banter
that goes on here and even engage in some of it myself. This is our
both our social and business center. You can't always learn the
really important things about a person just from their business and
political dealings. You have to understand their social interactions
too. With whom do they joke and about what. What side issues such as
macronational politics set them off; what are their hot buttons for
non- Roman issues. It also gives us a chance to better understand the
writing of our fellow Citizens who may be less fluent in English, so
that we do not misunderstand them in the heat of political debate.

No, I for one like the fact that this list is a polyglot hodge-podge
of topics serious and trivial, Roman and macronational, of well
tailored and somewhat fractured english, of politics and gossip. In
short, just like the Forum.

Just my bit to add to the great melting pot of the Forum.

Vale,

Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> Salve Cordus!
>
> While the original posting was an error, this does bring up a

good point, escpecially given the large volume on the List:

> Perhaps it's time to create a specifically Social List. Leave the

Main List for Nova Roma official business, create a Social List

> for just hanging out, talking about books, pies & beer,

macronational politics, whatever.

>
> Just a suggestion. What do you think? An idea whose time has

come? Business List - Social List split.

>
> Vale
> ~ Servius
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> "=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?="

<a_apollonius_cordus@y...>

> Sent: Nov 28, 2003 10:55 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and<BR>
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
> <BR>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Has absolutely no relevance to things Roman.  If one<BR>
> > is going to<BR>
> > protest about one intrusion of things outside of the<BR>
> > scope of<BR>
> > Romanesque onto the ML, then protest them all<BR>
> > otherwise one looks like<BR>
> > a hypocrite.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think perhaps there is a middle way. Of course<BR>
> anyone is, and should remain, free to discuss in the<BR>
> public forum anything he or she pleases. But as things<BR>
> not strictly relevant to Nova Roma go, I think it's<BR>
> possible to divide them into two categories.<BR>
> <BR>
> On the one hand, we can see that some non-NR events<BR>
> are so profoundly important that they affect us as<BR>
> human beings regardless of nationality, and these<BR>
> certainly merit discussion here because, as you say,<BR>
> we are human as well as Roman. On the other, there are<BR>
> those which aren't; these certainly shouldn't be<BR>
> banned, but should perhaps be discouraged.<BR>
> <BR>
> Of course the placing of that dividing line is always<BR>
> going to be subjective. An event in one's own country<BR>
> will often affect one more profoundly than the same<BR>
> event elsewhere, and may seem more relevant to the<BR>
> common humanity of all than it really is. But we can<BR>
> all agree, I think, about some items: it would be<BR>
> absurd to suggest that only German and Austrian Jews<BR>
> should be concerned about the holocaust, or that only<BR>
> New Yorkers should be concerned about the attacks on<BR>
> the World Trade Centre; at the other end, it would<BR>
> absurd for me to argue that the traffic lights<BR>
> recently erected in Cornmarket Street, Oxford should<BR>
> be of interest to everyone on this list.<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't know whether the poster thought the visit of<BR>
> President Bush to Iraq was something we should all be<BR>
> concerned about as humans, but it's hard for me to see<BR>
> why it should be: the UK's Foreign Secretary, Jack<BR>
> Straw, also made a top secret visit to Iraq a day or<BR>
> two ago, and I wouldn't bother telling anyone else<BR>
> about that. But think one can plausibly argue that<BR>
> expressing regret, shock or condolence at the<BR>
> unexpected and violent death of anyone, whether<BR>
> Swedish, Italian, Brazilian or American, does<BR>
> contribute to our common humanity in a beneficial way.<BR>
> <BR>
> Forgive me for waxing philosophical; perhaps I'm<BR>
> unconsciously making up for the fact that, being<BR>
> currently unopposed, I have no vigorous campaigning to<BR>
> do.  :)<BR>
> <BR>
>

______________________________________________________________________
__<BR>

> Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth

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G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Since I shall have to be away from the computer for much of tomorrow,
and fearful that I might not be able to continue to fulfill my oath to
Venus Genetrix to post something usieful to the list east day in that
absence, I post this additional additional link for tomorrow, today:

Here's a link to "The Demise of Paganism":

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/texts/demise.html

This essay by James J. O'Donnell (Georgetown Univ.) originally
appeared in _Traditio_ 35 (1979), 45-88. O'Donnell's " study... grows
out of the conviction that the phenomenon of paganism in the late
fourth century is more complex and confusing than the standard
treatments seem to appreciate... That there was less homogeneity in
the pagan 'movement' than has often been assumed can be seen further
in an event which followed the death of Julian."

And in piaculo for early fulfilment of a vow, another link, this to
the "Appendix Vergiliana: The Minor Poems of Virgil in English
Translation":

http://www.virgil.org/appendix/

The site, by David Wilson-Okamura (University of Chicago), provides
translations and commentary on several lesser works of Vergil (some of
disputed authorship).

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve Livia,

> At last! Someone else who knows about the wonders of peanut butter
> and marshmallow sancwiches! My partner, who is from the Lacis Magni
> area, thinks I'm nuts whenever I mention it!

Obviously you're a woman with good taste in food :-) I'm originally from NYC but I thought that
everyone in the US was familiar with Fluff.

Gaius Severus: In case you can't figure out what Livia and I are referring to, ''Fluff' is a jar of
melted down marshmallows.It was really popular when I was kid and had its own catchy themesong on
commercials. The consumers are usually little kids or adults with a giant sweet tooth :-)
The jar recommends that you eat it on bread together with peanut butter. The sandwich is then called
a 'Fluffernutter'. It's very sweet and sticky and after eating it, there are always marshmallows
stuck to your cheeks. Don't look for any nutritional value in Fluff :-)

Vale,
Diana

Salve Scaurus:

The attached was a welcome posting. I have R. Joseph Hoffmann's book on the literary remains of Porphyry
("Against the Christians") as well as his translation of Celsus' "On the True Doctrine." I have long been interested in these two philosophers but was unaware of this particular site. Thanks!

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: g_iulius_scaurus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 12:07 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Work of Porphyry entitled _Concerning Cult Images_


G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

"The Work of Porphyry entitled _Concerning Cult Images_":

http://cosmopolis.com/texts/porphyry-on-images.html

This work by the famous late antique Neoplatonic philosopher is extant
only in fragments quoted by the the Christian Eusebius of Caesarea in
his _Preparation for the Gospel_. The reconstructed text is taken
from Edwin Wilson's 1903 translation of Eusebius and edited by Colph
Gaines.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve T. Galerius:

Nero was a piker. A real Emperor would have pulled out his viola da gamba, put it between his legs, and played for all he was worth. A lyre, as Nero would have been aware, is SO pedestrian. And as Flaubert once noted, conformity is the smother of invention.

Vale

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)


Salve My dear friend L. Suetonius Nerva, Who said in part

" My college degrees are in musicology, so I offer the preceding only as the observations of an interested amateur."

PLEASE reassure us the in case a five breaks out in Nova Roma you do not know how to play the lyre.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus





----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)



> One author I read said he was fair and potentially a
>good administrator though his meningitis got him off wack somewhat.
>They go on to say that his demise was more to do with losing control
>with the senate etc.

>I would value and appreciate comments from both you gentlemen since
>history is your profession and expertise.

Salvete Omnes:

The relevant chapters in Tacitus' Annals are lost. That leaves us with Suetonius and the account of Caligula's assassination in Flavius Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities." There are also several modern biographies, Birley's among them.

My take on the subject is that, despite some dubious efforts at rehabilitation, Caligula (or, "Gaius") remains an unattractive figure who, while reaping the plaudits of the masses on his accession, suffered some sort of fever or dementia c. 38 CE, and thereafter was never the same, emerging, during the last 2 years of his reign, as the monster familiar to anyone who has read Graves', "I, Claudius."

My college degrees are in musicology, so I offer the preceding only as the observations of an interested amateur.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Truth About Caligula and the Excesses Of Other Emperors (Attm. QFM, Scaurus)


Salvete omnes,

I have a question here regarding the accuracies of Seutonius and
Tacitus. A while back I read that the vices of the emperors they
wrote about may have been greatly exaggerated since these historians
had family grudges or quarrels with them. Caligula has been sited as
a good example.
Thanks,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about.
It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying
things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and
entirely true."
~Oscar Wilde






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites, et salve, candidate Quinte Fabi Maxime.

Senator Q. Fabius Maximus:

Two days ago, I made a public question to you on this very same list
regarding your qualifications to serve as a censor of Nova Roma:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17192

I wonder if it would be possible to receive an answer. I have just
read that you have an excellent equipment that allows you to answer
immediately to this kind of questions and that you no longer make
people wait for a reply, and I have seen you answering *other*
questions on this very same list, so I wonder what might have
happened with that question of mine.

Thank you for your time and attention.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve Servi Equiti,

> If for some reason someone simply feels they must
> respond, please do so privately - this List is
> getting a ridiculous number of Postings - well over
> a hundred a day, many of which do nothing to further
> Nova Roma or our current political debate.
> Please send the quips and comments meant for an
> individual directly and Privately to that
> individual.

Whilst, to a point, I share your sentiments, I must
argue that caution be applied with regards to
advocating the taking of topics off-list. Whilst this
particular thread may be of no interest to you, this
may not be the case for everyone, certainly not the
perpetrators of the thread. There are list guidelines
in existance, and these must be adhered to. As of now,
these have not been violated.

Certainly, there have been numerous threads that I
personally have absolutely no interest in - pumpkin
pie, English grammar, a plethora of endorsements
before the deadline for candidatures has even closed -
geez I even remember a thread not so long ago
involving sheep and goats - but guidelines have not
been broken.

Remember, this is our main channel of communication,
the lifeblood, if you will, of our republic. Lets keep
it open and free as much as we can.

There is always the delete button, which seems to be a
much used phrase here ;-)

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Candididate for Praetor

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

Ave Servius,
That is what the Back Alley is for. It is a free
for all list. That's where my post went along with the misdirected ML post.
Another list is
not needed(IMHO).

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
--
AIM: KSDeist

Salvete omnes

I can't but join on the request of Salix Astur.

My questions were in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17203

and:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17204

As far as Candidate Fabius Maximus is running for a delicate office,
it would be a pity to neglect such questions even before the
election. So I humbly ask once more them.


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites, et salve, candidate Quinte Fabi Maxime.
>
> Senator Q. Fabius Maximus:
>
> Two days ago, I made a public question to you on this very same

list

> regarding your qualifications to serve as a censor of Nova Roma:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17192
>
> I wonder if it would be possible to receive an answer. I have just
> read that you have an excellent equipment that allows you to

answer

> immediately to this kind of questions and that you no longer make
> people wait for a reply, and I have seen you answering *other*
> questions on this very same list, so I wonder what might have
> happened with that question of mine.
>
> Thank you for your time and attention.
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Greetings, fellow citizens,

I come before you today not, as seems to be fast becoming the family
tradition, to declare myself a candidate for Censor, but to take a rather
more elementary step on the Cursus and enter myself as a candidate for
election for the first time. I am most grateful to the Senate for
allowing me this opportunity, and would like to officially announce that I
would be delighted to serve the Republic next year in the position of
Quaestor, if this pleases the electorate.

I came to Nova Roma almost exactly two years ago, and have spent the
intervening period assisting wherever I could under elected magistrates
(including Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus this year), as well as getting
involved at a provincial and sodality level. The Scribe and Accensus
positions I have held have given me useful insight in to the workings of
Nova Roma, which I will use in your service if elected.

In my wider experience, I have the financial and organisational ability
required to serve as an effective Quaestor, which I have demonstrated
recently in producing several plays (managing budgets of up to £18,000).

I am a member of the Society for the Promotion of Roman Studies and the
Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies, and am currently studying
Linguistics at university.

I would be more than happy to answer any questions any citizen may have
about my candidacy - please feel free to contact me privately
(livia@...) or via the email lists.

Valete,

Gaia Fabia Livia
(candidate for Quaestor)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Cn. Equitius Marinus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

I'd be very interested to see some experimentation
with the length and use of the contio. Of course,
there are some dangers.

One is that, over time, people will come to confuse
being asked for input with having a right to determine
the outcome. This process - which is happening
currently in the UK and probably in many democratic
nations - comes from two sources. On the one hand,
governments want to make sure their policies will be
favourably received, and voluntarily submit themselves
more and more to focus-groups, polls, referenda and
such like; on the other hand, opponents of a given
policy use 'process' arguments against that policy,
denouncing it on the grounds not that it is wrong but
that it is unpopular, has been proposed without
sufficient consultation &c. These two tendencies give
the man or woman on the street the impression that he
or she has a right to determine government policy.

That doesn't mean that increased consultation should
be avoided, but one must make it very clear that in
the end a magistrate proposes what he or she wants to
propose, and no one else has the right to determine
the outcome except by voting for or against the
proposal. Otherwise either magistrates will end up
proposing whatever is popular regardless of their own
views or they will frustrate the voters by giving the
impression that they want feedback and criticism and
ultimately ignoring it.

In a way, the same can be said of the senate. It is a
tremendously useful resource for magistrates to use in
testing and scrutinising their legislation, but there
is a danger that people see the senate's advice as
more than advice, resulting either in magistrates
avoiding the senate entirely or in the senate
acquiring de facto legislative power by being able to
dictate to magistrates rather than advise them.

So to come back to your question, yes, by all means
try it, but I'd advise you to make sure everyone
understands that advice is only advice.

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
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A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> For the Humor impaired, Grand High Poobah is a joke
> term for an overly
> grand title, a bit of levity aimed at the structure
> of the Consular
> Cohort... er Cohorde... oops Cohors. :-)

Senator, I cannot understand why you keep saying
'cohort' as though you were humourously punning on the
title of the consul's staff.

'Cohors' is latin for 'cohort'. They are effectively
the same word. This is not a pun you are making but a
translation. It's not funny.

'Cohorde', by the way, is a perfectly respectable pun,
and did make me chuckle when you used it first. It's a
little boring now, though, after two or three outings.
I hope you'll give us a new one next time.

(Speeaking of puns, I'm amazed that no one has yet
tried calling the Boni 'goodfellas', or other
variations on the Mafia's term of self-reference.)

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

Salvete Omnes,

This isn't a new idea, it has actually been done in the past. Consul
Vedius and Tribune Labienus held discussions on Nova Roma's main list on
reforming the Tribunes office in June of 2754 and some of the input from
citizens was included in the Leges that were later promulgated.

I Have allready stated that I will be doing the same on my proposal to
reform Tribal assignments if I'm elected Tribune.

L. Sicinius Drusus

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Cn. Equitius Marinus
> and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> I'd be very interested to see some experimentation
> with the length and use of the contio. Of course,
> there are some dangers.
>
> One is that, over time, people will come to confuse
> being asked for input with having a right to determine
> the outcome. This process - which is happening
> currently in the UK and probably in many democratic
> nations - comes from two sources. On the one hand,
> governments want to make sure their policies will be
> favourably received, and voluntarily submit themselves
> more and more to focus-groups, polls, referenda and
> such like; on the other hand, opponents of a given
> policy use 'process' arguments against that policy,
> denouncing it on the grounds not that it is wrong but
> that it is unpopular, has been proposed without
> sufficient consultation &c. These two tendencies give
> the man or woman on the street the impression that he
> or she has a right to determine government policy.
>
> That doesn't mean that increased consultation should
> be avoided, but one must make it very clear that in
> the end a magistrate proposes what he or she wants to
> propose, and no one else has the right to determine
> the outcome except by voting for or against the
> proposal. Otherwise either magistrates will end up
> proposing whatever is popular regardless of their own
> views or they will frustrate the voters by giving the
> impression that they want feedback and criticism and
> ultimately ignoring it.
>
> In a way, the same can be said of the senate. It is a
> tremendously useful resource for magistrates to use in
> testing and scrutinising their legislation, but there
> is a danger that people see the senate's advice as
> more than advice, resulting either in magistrates
> avoiding the senate entirely or in the senate
> acquiring de facto legislative power by being able to
> dictate to magistrates rather than advise them.
>
> So to come back to your question, yes, by all means
> try it, but I'd advise you to make sure everyone
> understands that advice is only advice.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> > For the Humor impaired, Grand High Poobah is a joke
> > term for an overly
> > grand title, a bit of levity aimed at the structure
> > of the Consular
> > Cohort... er Cohorde... oops Cohors. :-)
>
> Senator, I cannot understand why you keep saying
> 'cohort' as though you were humourously punning on the
> title of the consul's staff.
>
> 'Cohors' is latin for 'cohort'. They are effectively
> the same word. This is not a pun you are making but a
> translation. It's not funny.

Ah, but most English speakers don't realize that. Puns are very language
dependant so allthough it wouldn't be a pun in Latin, it remains one in
English.

>
>
> 'Cohorde', by the way, is a perfectly respectable pun,
> and did make me chuckle when you used it first. It's a
> little boring now, though, after two or three outings.
> I hope you'll give us a new one next time.
>
> (Speeaking of puns, I'm amazed that no one has yet
> tried calling the Boni 'goodfellas', or other
> variations on the Mafia's term of self-reference.)

That's fine with me!

Some have the mistaken Idea that the Romans were prim and proper
Victorian prudes in Togas, when they actually had an acute sense of
humor and weren't afraid of displaying it. Cicero was as famous for his
puns and jests as for any other part of his oratry. The Dictator Sulla
went as far as appointing a man with a speach impediment as Pontifax
Maximus as a jest. No Roman triumphal parade was complete without the
troops calling out humorus insults about thier General during the
parade, like Ceasar's troops warning the citizens of Rome to lock up
thier wives and daughters because they were returning with the bald
adulterer.

The Maifa angle has allready been applied to our modern Sulla, his
nickname in the Back Alley is the Godfather of the Corleone.... oops
Cornelian family. Boni also has a homosexual conotation, and using that
would be "thooo thweet, you little cuty" ;-)

A Roman nation without humor is ahistoric.

L. Sicinius Drusus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Marcus Minucius Audens, Amice et Pater!

On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 10:51:24AM -0500, Marcus Minucius Audens/Jim Mathews wrote:
> Ladies and Gentlemen of Nova Roma;
>
> I have been nominally off this list for some time dealing with my other
> interests, and really not caring for the insulting banter back and forth
> from those who are in the business of assasinating characters in place
> of dealing with Nova Roma and her problems in a more effective and
> constructive way.
>
> I am informed that one of these citizens has chosen to mention my name
> in one of his messages.
>
> Apparently being associated with some other citizens in Nova Roma who
> desire a closer control of thier famiies, these people do not understand
> how a more independent family or Gens operates. In the Gens Minucia,
> the people who join the Gens are considered to be independent in thier
> thoughts and deeds. I choose to act more as a brother to those of my
> Gens than as an all powerful father figure. So those of my Gens have a
> right to say what they think is necessary and are, to the best of my
> knowledge, quite willing take the responsibilityfor what they say.

I'm very happy and proud to claim my place as a member of Gens Minucia;
to our ancestors, familial pride was always one of the most important
things in their lives, and I find that it is true for me as well. Amice,
you have always given me cause to feel proud of you and our Gens, more
with every passing day and every exchange that we have. Anyone who knows
me knows that I'm not the sort to heap unearned praise - and I must say
that I feel great respect and admiration for you, and have plenty of
cause for it.

> In reviewing the comments of my Gens-mate who is being criticized, I can
> see nothing of any great harm that was said and except for one point, I
> pretty much agree with what my Gens-mate has indicated.
>
> However, I must admit to not having any expertise in the matter of
> "xenophobia." However, I have no proof that my Gens-mate has no skill
> in these matters, as we have not discussed it at length. He is a very
> clever individual, in my estimation, as one would expect from a teacher
> and a skilled mariner, and I am proud to have him in my Gens. I thank
> Senator Drusus for the opportunity to bring out some of the positive
> aspects of the Gens Minucia and show my appreciation for those of my
> Gens who have demonstrated over time a very keen insight, and the
> understanding and desire to set things aright when those who are
> clumsier or less concerned by the truth or pesonal injury that they
> cause, upset the citizens of Noma Roma to no good purpose.
>
> I am saddeded that Senator Drusus has viewed my comments over the years
> as being directed at the slightest item with which I disagree. I can
> tell you that I disagree with nearly everything that Senator Drusus does
> or says, but I very seldom post upon such until his unusual method of
> objecting to political concerns through the asassination of character
> tops even the most liberal of individual patience.
>
> I am somewhat confused also by Senator Drusus' use of a title that I am
> not familiar with. There is no such title that I am aware of in the
> parts of Nova Roma that I currently inhabit. Perhaps he has "borrowed"
> the title in error from something that he has seen elsewhere, or perhaps
> it is a title to which he aspires.

He has been warned by the Praetors, at my request, to cease his
hysterical attacks on everything I say, particularly with regard to his
pathetic "poodle" insults. Now he's attempting to hide behind a
so-called "minced" version of the word, "poodle" -> "poobah". [shrug]
Rabid hatred thinly disguised as (extremely poor) humor; yep, that's
Drusus to a tee. For myself, having killfiled him, I only see dim
reflections of those dim attempts at character assassination; as long as
it's kept within reason, I don't mind it. If it gets out of hand, I'll
refer it to the Praetors - this time, for more serious action,
especially due to the violation of that warning.

In a way, I suppose it should be yet another point of pride: your
complete disagreement with him mirrors mine, and I see that as yet
another connection between us. :)

> In any case my position as Paterfamilius to Gens Minucia has no
> involvement in this aspect of Political discussion , and just as Senator
> Sulla has objected in the past to a careless reference to the Gens
> Cornelia, I object to the involvement of the Gens Minucia in poitical
> debate, by an individual who apparently does not understand the desires
> and agreementa of those within the Gens to which he refers.

My thanks for that clarification, Pater; it underscores precisely the
differences between the sort of family life I support for Nova Roma and
the model supported by the Boni: a free association among proud
individuals versus a jail in which the Paterfamilias cracks the whip and
the slaves obey. I invite all cives here to consider which idea they
support, and to vote accordingly.


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.
What Jupiter may do, the ox may not.
(I.e., what is permitted for a high-ranking person isn't permitted for everybody.
Cf. aliis si licet, tibi non licet..)

Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:

>
>
> He has been warned by the Praetors, at my request, to cease his
> hysterical attacks on everything I say, particularly with regard to his
> pathetic "poodle" insults. Now he's attempting to hide behind a
> so-called "minced" version of the word, "poodle" -> "poobah". [shrug]
> Rabid hatred thinly disguised as (extremely poor) humor; yep, that's
> Drusus to a tee. For myself, having killfiled him, I only see dim
> reflections of those dim attempts at character assassination; as long as
> it's kept within reason, I don't mind it. If it gets out of hand, I'll
> refer it to the Praetors - this time, for more serious action,
> especially due to the violation of that warning.

ROFL,

It seems the lad is one of those people who can dish it out but can't
take it. The only times I mentioned canines with funny grooming styles
was in response to him attacking other posters on this list.

Wahhhh he called me a name!! I'm going to tattle to the Praetors.
How utterly immature.

L. Sicinius Drusus

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L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
| Wahhhh he called me a name!! I'm going to tattle to
| the Praetors. How utterly immature.

Salvete, quirites.

I just wanted to point out how utterly true the final statement of this
paragraph is.

Scaevola, just a quickie on how to set up a killfile, if you've got a
minute? I suddenly felt an urgent need for a *plonk* or two.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Salve Troianus.
thank you very much for your fine words, but I don't think your good
opinion about my english are so right ;-D I continue to admit that I
must to improve one of the our official tongues.
However your words show me that the majority of the people can
understand well the meaning of a message if it isn't in correct
language too.
A fine information from my job: recent studies showed us that it's
not important the errors in a text because even we're able to read
it fastly and understand the meaning. For example, the english
should read and understand fastly a text like "Sorhry, pleaze, whers
iss tha frencch ristaurant Maxim? The resttaurant is infronte of yu"

About the answer of teh Collegium and of Mr. Maximus, I can
understand and agree your opinion if I never received answers. I
think too there are some problem of internal communication in the
Collegium and this is a logic (is it?) reason to not answer me. I'ld
accept this reason if it's the only.
But Mr. Maximus answered me that the Collegium and he didn't
answered to my mails not because they had internal communication
problems but because he didn't understood the meaning of my e-
mails ... Yes, I have to admit that my english is bad, but I don't
think that 5 official aedilian e-mails (about ludi, religious
events, project of Magna Mater, etc.) weren't absolutely
understandable.
Sorry, Amice, thank you very much for your words but I disagree your
answer about Mr. Maximus and his reasons.

About the technical equipment of Mr. Maximus, I must to note you
that he didin't answered to my official e-mails not for a couple of
weeks, but from April to October of this year ... He had 9 months of
technical problems? Why he sent messages in the Main List if he had
this problems?
I have too techinical problems and a bad equipment (and this is very
important for my job) and I was obliged to work "half-time" in NR
but I don't think that 9 months are reasonable.

Amice, how I must to valuate a candidacy not thinking to the past?
About Mr. Maximus I know only the past and I don't want give my vote
only following the "faith for him". We are electing the higher nova
roman officer and we have to check and analyze the past, the present
and the future of the candidates...

Thank you again for your fine words and message, I appreciated it. :-
)

Vale bene
Fr. Apulsu Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!
>
> My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled at

the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail of
that type - shocked, really! While your English has a
definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what you
were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have
corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated each
letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that you
bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please -
clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International our
Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to learn in
time.

>
> As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only experience

of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either: They
seem to have internal communications problems there. I too wrote
them more than once, and received no response: My only experience
like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to -
complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the
great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the
Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is
impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They must
just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or
something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!

>
> I maintain personal correspondence with some of our Pontifices,

including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up
until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he has
said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer
equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I
know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago it
would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know, because
that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is no
longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed allow
him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away from
any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against him:
He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a good
thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no longer
happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can assure
you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in the
future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment needed
to send and receive even in the Wilderness.

>
> I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is only

one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against him.
The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other
problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and does
reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which shows
that he is not the problem but a solution.

>
> Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude to

you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every post
you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am sure
to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep writing
to the rest of us who appreciate your words!

>
> Vale bene
> ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salvete Omnes<BR>
> what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by <BR>
> poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or didn't

<BR>

> answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
> During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to the

<BR>

> Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about <BR>
> important matters. I never received answers... The only answer was

<BR>

> written by the author of this words after several weeks and he

said <BR>

> me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the

meaning <BR>

> of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a

thing <BR>

> I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's <BR>
> reasonable and polite that he could be different from me... And I

<BR>

> smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my <BR>
> languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
> <BR>
> So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could accomplish

his <BR>

> duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The

number <BR>

> of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as well

as <BR>

> possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if this

<BR>

> candidate will be elected.<BR>
> <BR>
> I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
> <BR>
> P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the language

<BR>

> abilities of this candidate. <BR>
> <BR>
> P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad english

<BR>

> and I  must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english tongue.

<BR>

> I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However I

<BR>

> don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the <BR>
> italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french with

<BR>

> some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I improve

<BR>

> my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Valete<BR>
> Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > << Email Sandra Nichols    "How long does it take to learn

English <BR>

> as a <BR>
> > <BR>
> > second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight <BR>
> years. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned

<BR>

> > <BR>
> > English in six months.'"  <BR>
> > <BR>
> >   >><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Salvete<BR>
> > <BR>
> > You can communicate roughly in English is six months.  However,

<BR>

> you will make <BR>
> > as many mistakes as you will get it right.  3-4 years of

constant <BR>

> daily use, <BR>
> > and you become accomplished.  You will still make small mistakes

<BR>

> like "make" a <BR>
> > bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.  <BR>
> Spelling is <BR>
> > harder.  <BR>
> > It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only

<BR>

> because I <BR>
> > learned English at a very early age.  Still when Bacchus is upon

<BR>

> me, it <BR>
> > resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will

so <BR>

> confirm.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Valete<BR>
> > Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Kristoffer From wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> | Wahhhh he called me a name!! I'm going to tattle to
> | the Praetors. How utterly immature.
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I just wanted to point out how utterly true the final statement of this
> paragraph is.
>
> Scaevola, just a quickie on how to set up a killfile, if you've got a
> minute? I suddenly felt an urgent need for a *plonk* or two.

So you approve of your Cohors Cohort making personal attacks against
posters who disagree with Cohors policy?


L. Sicinius Drusus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Servi Equiti

> They is a plural, or I should say WAS a plural,...

They has been used as a singular in English for more than a thousand
years. Sentences with constructions similar to, "Everyone take out
their notebooks," have been around since Anglo-Saxon times.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare

Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!

On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 06:30:08PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> | Wahhhh he called me a name!! I'm going to tattle to
> | the Praetors. How utterly immature.
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> I just wanted to point out how utterly true the final statement of this
> paragraph is.

[grin] Yes, it establishes the writer's attitude toward our laws pretty
firmly.

> Scaevola, just a quickie on how to set up a killfile, if you've got a
> minute? I suddenly felt an urgent need for a *plonk* or two.

You bet. Quite a lot depends on the mail client you use, or you can just
set up your system-wide or personal .procmailrc, as I do. It gets rid of
nearly all the spam via SpamAssassin, and easily doubles as a kill-file;
please see my article on setting up "procmail" in the Linux Gazette,
which includes my one-key killfile entry routine for "mutt".

<http://linuxgazette.net/issue62/okopnik.html>

Feel free to email me privately in case of any questions.


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Ignoti militi"
For the unknown soldier
-- Inscription on the tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

Caius Minucius Scaevola wrote:

> Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 06:30:08PM +0100, Kristoffer From wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > | Wahhhh he called me a name!! I'm going to tattle to
> > | the Praetors. How utterly immature.
> >
> > Salvete, quirites.
> >
> > I just wanted to point out how utterly true the final statement of this
> > paragraph is.
>
> [grin] Yes, it establishes the writer's attitude toward our laws pretty
> firmly.

Actually it establishes my attitude about Veral Bullies who call other
posters to this list "dishonest", "Xenophobic", "unintelligent", and
"immoral" and then run off to tattle like a spoiled child if anyone
treats them the same way in return.

It also makes me distrust a Consular staff that is ready to defend a
fellow staff member who uses these tatics of imtimidation directed
against those who dare to question the staff's policies. It ammounts
to an endorsement of a policy of political censorship.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Salvete omnes,

LOL! Perhaps some of the quarreling candidates may find this
education rather useful once they are elected. For the other Nova
Romans, this is quite an interesting and informative article. Enjoy!




http://www.sun.ac.za/AS/journals/akro/Akro45/cil-ret2.pdf


Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve Tite Labiene;
I thought that was a modernism but as you say my OED puts it back
to the Anglo-Saxons.
As for you Servi Equiti, sorry but I can tell you just when the
teaching of grammar disappeared in the U.S. with the demise of Latin!
Teachers today have no idea what a participle is much less the
agreement of tense or case and they are passing their ignorance on.
Of course language should change but being clueless is not a
recommendation.
Thank goodness Latin is being brought back precisely for the above
reasons, to make Americans more literate.
Once you know when to use the Subjunctive you will be confident,
self-assured, a true Roman!
vale Pomponia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:

> Salve Servi Equiti
>
> > They is a plural, or I should say WAS a plural,...
>
> They has been used as a singular in English for more than a

thousand

> years. Sentences with constructions similar to, "Everyone take out
> their notebooks," have been around since Anglo-Saxon times.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> "Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
> them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the

more

> merit is in your bounty."
> -Shakespeare

Salve Francisce Apule;
I just want to add my 2 cents that I have always enjoyed your posts
And it is entirely rude to point it out to you any deficiencies in
grammar or tense.
I am sorry that a countryman would display such poor manners;
especially when Italians are so encouraging to those that attempt to
speak their language.
As for Maximus, since he lives in California he should be more
than able to cope with all varieties of English. Or he can write:

"Francisco, non posso comprendere la sua lettera; mi scriva in
Italiano"
how hard is that?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

> A fine information from my job: recent studies showed us that it's
> not important the errors in a text because even we're able to read
> it fastly and understand the meaning. For example, the english
> should read and understand fastly a text like "Sorhry, pleaze,

whers

> iss tha frencch ristaurant Maxim? The resttaurant is infronte of yu"
>
> (about ludi, religious
> events, project of Magna Mater, etc.) weren't absolutely
> understandable.
> Sorry, Amice, thank you very much for your words but I disagree

your

> answer about Mr. Maximus and his reasons.
>
> About the technical equipment of Mr. Maximus, I must to note you
> that he didin't answered to my official e-mails not for a couple of
> weeks, but from April to October of this year ... He had 9 months

of

> technical problems? Why he sent messages in the Main List if he had
> this problems?
> I have too techinical problems and a bad equipment (and this is

very

> important for my job) and I was obliged to work "half-time" in NR
> but I don't think that 9 months are reasonable.
>
> Amice, how I must to valuate a candidacy not thinking to the past?
> About Mr. Maximus I know only the past and I don't want give my

vote

> only following the "faith for him". We are electing the higher nova
> roman officer and we have to check and analyze the past, the

present

> and the future of the candidates...
>
> Thank you again for your fine words and message, I appreciated

it. :-

> )
>
> Vale bene
> Fr. Apulsu Caesar
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!
> >
> > My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled at
> the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail of
> that type - shocked, really! While your English has a
> definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what you
> were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have
> corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated each
> letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that you
> bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please -
> clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International

our

> Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to learn

in

> time.
> >
> > As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only experience
> of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either: They
> seem to have internal communications problems there. I too wrote
> them more than once, and received no response: My only experience
> like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to -
> complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the
> great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the
> Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is
> impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They must
> just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or
> something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!
> >
> > I maintain personal correspondence with some of our Pontifices,
> including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up
> until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he has
> said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer
> equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I
> know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago it
> would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know, because
> that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is no
> longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed allow
> him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away from
> any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against him:
> He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a good
> thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no longer
> happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can

assure

> you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in the
> future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment needed
> to send and receive even in the Wilderness.
> >
> > I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is

only

> one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against him.
> The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other
> problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and

does

> reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which shows
> that he is not the problem but a solution.
> >
> > Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude to
> you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every post
> you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am sure
> to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep writing
> to the rest of us who appreciate your words!
> >
> > Vale bene
> > ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities
> >
> > <html><body>
> >
> >
> > <tt>
> > Salvete Omnes<BR>
> > what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by

<BR>

> > poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or

didn't

> <BR>
> > answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
> > During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to the
> <BR>
> > Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about <BR>
> > important matters. I never received answers... The only answer

was

> <BR>
> > written by the author of this words after several weeks and he
> said <BR>
> > me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the
> meaning <BR>
> > of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a
> thing <BR>
> > I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's <BR>
> > reasonable and polite that he could be different from me... And I
> <BR>
> > smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my <BR>
> > languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could accomplish
> his <BR>
> > duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The
> number <BR>
> > of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as well
> as <BR>
> > possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if this
> <BR>
> > candidate will be elected.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the language
> <BR>
> > abilities of this candidate. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad english
> <BR>
> > and I  must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english tongue.
> <BR>
> > I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However I
> <BR>
> > don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the

<BR>

> > italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french

with

> <BR>
> > some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I

improve

> <BR>
> > my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Valete<BR>
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > << Email Sandra Nichols    "How long does it take to learn
> English <BR>
> > as a <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight

<BR>

> > years. <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned
> <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > English in six months.'"  <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > >   >><BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Salvete<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > You can communicate roughly in English is six months.  However,
> <BR>
> > you will make <BR>
> > > as many mistakes as you will get it right.  3-4 years of
> constant <BR>
> > daily use, <BR>
> > > and you become accomplished.  You will still make small

mistakes

> <BR>
> > like "make" a <BR>
> > > bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected. 

<BR>

> > Spelling is <BR>
> > > harder.  <BR>
> > > It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only
> <BR>
> > because I <BR>
> > > learned English at a very early age.  Still when Bacchus is

upon

> <BR>
> > me, it <BR>
> > > resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will
> so <BR>
> > confirm.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Valete<BR>
> > > Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> >
> > <br>
> >
> > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
> >
> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor</b></font></td>
> > </tr>
> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
> > <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0
> cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-
> 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
>

href="http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c7hig8l/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261

>

774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070155958/A=1853619/R=0/*http://

> www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732" alt=""><img
>

src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/yhoo1103_b_300250

> A.gif" alt="click here" width="300" height="250"
> border="0"></a></td></tr></table> </td>
> > </tr>
> > <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
> src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>

M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1853619/rand=96

> 1976734"></td></tr>
> > </table>
> >
> > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
> >
> >
> > <br>
> > <tt>
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> > <br>
> >
> > <br>
> > <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
> href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
> Service</a>.</tt>
> > </br>
> >
> > </body></html>

Lets apply a little context here.
This matter started when Apulus was conducting a quiz on Roman History
and not one but two professional historians were being told that thier
replies were incorrect after both misunderstood the questions on more
than one occasion.

A Magistrate requires a greater compatancy in the offical language of
Nova Roma than an average citizen does, and the question was NOT if all
citizens should have a certain level of compatancy, but if Magistrates
need that level to do thier jobs.

It is not discrimination to expect the Curator of Nova Roma's website to
be compatant in the language that Web pages are written in, and it is
not discrimination to expect a magistrate to have a certain level of
compatancy in a language he will have to work in. It would be
inapporaite for the Senate to appoint a Propraetor for Italy who barely
spoke Italian, and the same holds true for Nova Roma's central
government where the working language is English.

Questions in Quiz's that are part of the games, offical decrees, and
questions pertaining to the Religio have subtle meanings that are beyond
Apulus' present skills, but he has NOT used the services of a translator
leaving it to others to guess what he means. In everyday conversation
guessing at these subtle meanings causes no major problems. This is not
true in the case of offical corespondance where precession is more
important.

Do you expect the Pontiffs to guess at the nature of a question that
could have subtle meanings and give out incorrect information if they
guess wrong?

L. Sicinius Drusus

rory12001 wrote:

> Salve Francisce Apule;
> I just want to add my 2 cents that I have always enjoyed your posts
> And it is entirely rude to point it out to you any deficiencies in
> grammar or tense.
> I am sorry that a countryman would display such poor manners;
> especially when Italians are so encouraging to those that attempt to
> speak their language.
> As for Maximus, since he lives in California he should be more
> than able to cope with all varieties of English. Or he can write:
>
> "Francisco, non posso comprendere la sua lettera; mi scriva in
> Italiano"
> how hard is that?
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
> > A fine information from my job: recent studies showed us that it's
> > not important the errors in a text because even we're able to read
> > it fastly and understand the meaning. For example, the english
> > should read and understand fastly a text like "Sorhry, pleaze,
> whers
> > iss tha frencch ristaurant Maxim? The resttaurant is infronte of yu"
> >
> > (about ludi, religious
> > events, project of Magna Mater, etc.) weren't absolutely
> > understandable.
> > Sorry, Amice, thank you very much for your words but I disagree
> your
> > answer about Mr. Maximus and his reasons.
> >
> > About the technical equipment of Mr. Maximus, I must to note you
> > that he didin't answered to my official e-mails not for a couple of
> > weeks, but from April to October of this year ... He had 9 months
> of
> > technical problems? Why he sent messages in the Main List if he had
> > this problems?
> > I have too techinical problems and a bad equipment (and this is
> very
> > important for my job) and I was obliged to work "half-time" in NR
> > but I don't think that 9 months are reasonable.
> >
> > Amice, how I must to valuate a candidacy not thinking to the past?
> > About Mr. Maximus I know only the past and I don't want give my
> vote
> > only following the "faith for him". We are electing the higher nova
> > roman officer and we have to check and analyze the past, the
> present
> > and the future of the candidates...
> >
> > Thank you again for your fine words and message, I appreciated
> it. :-
> > )
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Fr. Apulsu Caesar
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> > Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > > Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!
> > >
> > > My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled at
> > the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail of
> > that type - shocked, really! While your English has a
> > definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what you
> > were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have
> > corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated each
> > letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that you
> > bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please -
> > clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International
> our
> > Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to learn
> in
> > time.
> > >
> > > As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only experience
> > of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either: They
> > seem to have internal communications problems there. I too wrote
> > them more than once, and received no response: My only experience
> > like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to -
> > complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the
> > great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the
> > Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is
> > impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They must
> > just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or
> > something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!
> > >
> > > I maintain personal correspondence with some of our Pontifices,
> > including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up
> > until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he has
> > said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer
> > equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I
> > know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago it
> > would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know, because
> > that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is no
> > longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed allow
> > him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away from
> > any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against him:
> > He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a good
> > thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no longer
> > happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can
> assure
> > you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in the
> > future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment needed
> > to send and receive even in the Wilderness.
> > >
> > > I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is
> only
> > one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against him.
> > The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other
> > problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and
> does
> > reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which shows
> > that he is not the problem but a solution.
> > >
> > > Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude to
> > you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every post
> > you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am sure
> > to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep writing
> > to the rest of us who appreciate your words!
> > >
> > > Vale bene
> > > ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > > Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities
> > >
> > > <html><body>
> > >
> > >
> > > <tt>
> > > Salvete Omnes<BR>
> > > what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by
> <BR>
> > > poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or
> didn't
> > <BR>
> > > answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
> > > During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to the
> > <BR>
> > > Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about <BR>
> > > important matters. I never received answers... The only answer
> was
> > <BR>
> > > written by the author of this words after several weeks and he
> > said <BR>
> > > me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the
> > meaning <BR>
> > > of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a
> > thing <BR>
> > > I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's <BR>
> > > reasonable and polite that he could be different from me... And I
> > <BR>
> > > smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my <BR>
> > > languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could accomplish
> > his <BR>
> > > duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The
> > number <BR>
> > > of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as well
> > as <BR>
> > > possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if this
> > <BR>
> > > candidate will be elected.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the language
> > <BR>
> > > abilities of this candidate. <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad english
> > <BR>
> > > and I must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english tongue.
> > <BR>
> > > I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However I
> > <BR>
> > > don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the
> <BR>
> > > italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french
> with
> > <BR>
> > > some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I
> improve
> > <BR>
> > > my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Valete<BR>
> > > Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > << Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn
> > English <BR>
> > > as a <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight
> <BR>
> > > years. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone who 'learned
> > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > English in six months.'" <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > >><BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Salvete<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > You can communicate roughly in English is six months. However,
> > <BR>
> > > you will make <BR>
> > > > as many mistakes as you will get it right. 3-4 years of
> > constant <BR>
> > > daily use, <BR>
> > > > and you become accomplished. You will still make small
> mistakes
> > <BR>
> > > like "make" a <BR>
> > > > bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.
> <BR>
> > > Spelling is <BR>
> > > > harder. <BR>
> > > > It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was only
> > <BR>
> > > because I <BR>
> > > > learned English at a very early age. Still when Bacchus is
> upon
> > <BR>
> > > me, it <BR>
> > > > resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days will
> > so <BR>
> > > confirm.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Valete<BR>
> > > > Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > </tt>
> > >
> > > <br>
> > >
> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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> src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/yhoo1103_b_300250
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Druse;
the word is 'competent' which you have mispelled twice as well
as 'inappropriate' where you seem to have entirely forgotten an 'r'.
Now I know English is your native language; which office are you
running for?
vale Pomponia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:

> Lets apply a little context here.
> This matter started when Apulus was conducting a quiz on Roman

History

> and not one but two professional historians were being told that

thier

> replies were incorrect after both misunderstood the questions on

more

> than one occasion.
>
> A
>
> rory12001 wrote:
>
> > Salve Francisce Apule;
> > I just want to add my 2 cents that I have always enjoyed your

posts

> > And it is entirely rude to point it out to you any deficiencies in
> > grammar or tense.
> > I am sorry that a countryman would display such poor manners;
> > especially when Italians are so encouraging to those that attempt

to

> > speak their language.
> > As for Maximus, since he lives in California he should be

more

> > than able to cope with all varieties of English. Or he can write:
> >
> > "Francisco, non posso comprendere la sua lettera; mi scriva in
> > Italiano"
> > how hard is that?
> > vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
> >
> > > A fine information from my job: recent studies showed us that

it's

> > > not important the errors in a text because even we're able to

read

> > > it fastly and understand the meaning. For example, the english
> > > should read and understand fastly a text like "Sorhry, pleaze,
> > whers
> > > iss tha frencch ristaurant Maxim? The resttaurant is infronte

of yu"

> > >
> > > (about ludi, religious
> > > events, project of Magna Mater, etc.) weren't absolutely
> > > understandable.
> > > Sorry, Amice, thank you very much for your words but I disagree
> > your
> > > answer about Mr. Maximus and his reasons.
> > >
> > > About the technical equipment of Mr. Maximus, I must to note you
> > > that he didin't answered to my official e-mails not for a

couple of

> > > weeks, but from April to October of this year ... He had 9

months

> > of
> > > technical problems? Why he sent messages in the Main List if he

had

> > > this problems?
> > > I have too techinical problems and a bad equipment (and this is
> > very
> > > important for my job) and I was obliged to work "half-time" in

NR

> > > but I don't think that 9 months are reasonable.
> > >
> > > Amice, how I must to valuate a candidacy not thinking to the

past?

> > > About Mr. Maximus I know only the past and I don't want give my
> > vote
> > > only following the "faith for him". We are electing the higher

nova

> > > roman officer and we have to check and analyze the past, the
> > present
> > > and the future of the candidates...
> > >
> > > Thank you again for your fine words and message, I appreciated
> > it. :-
> > > )
> > >
> > > Vale bene
> > > Fr. Apulsu Caesar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> > > Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > > > Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!
> > > >
> > > > My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled

at

> > > the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail

of

> > > that type - shocked, really! While your English has a
> > > definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what

you

> > > were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have
> > > corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated

each

> > > letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that

you

> > > bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please -
> > > clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International
> > our
> > > Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to

learn

> > in
> > > time.
> > > >
> > > > As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only

experience

> > > of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either:

They

> > > seem to have internal communications problems there. I too

wrote

> > > them more than once, and received no response: My only

experience

> > > like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to -
> > > complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the
> > > great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the
> > > Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is
> > > impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They

must

> > > just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or
> > > something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!
> > > >
> > > > I maintain personal correspondence with some of our

Pontifices,

> > > including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up
> > > until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he

has

> > > said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer
> > > equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I
> > > know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago

it

> > > would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know,

because

> > > that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is

no

> > > longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed

allow

> > > him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away

from

> > > any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against

him:

> > > He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a

good

> > > thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no

longer

> > > happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can
> > assure
> > > you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in

the

> > > future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment

needed

> > > to send and receive even in the Wilderness.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is
> > only
> > > one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against

him.

> > > The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other
> > > problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and
> > does
> > > reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which

shows

> > > that he is not the problem but a solution.
> > > >
> > > > Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude

to

> > > you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every

post

> > > you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am

sure

> > > to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep

writing

> > > to the rest of us who appreciate your words!
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene
> > > > ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > > > Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities
> > > >
> > > > <html><body>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <tt>
> > > > Salvete Omnes<BR>
> > > > what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by
> > <BR>
> > > > poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or
> > didn't
> > > <BR>
> > > > answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
> > > > During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to

the

> > > <BR>
> > > > Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about

<BR>

> > > > important matters. I never received answers... The only answer
> > was
> > > <BR>
> > > > written by the author of this words after several weeks and he
> > > said <BR>
> > > > me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the
> > > meaning <BR>
> > > > of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a
> > > thing <BR>
> > > > I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's

<BR>

> > > > reasonable and polite that he could be different from me...

And I

> > > <BR>
> > > > smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my

<BR>

> > > > languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could

accomplish

> > > his <BR>
> > > > duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The
> > > number <BR>
> > > > of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as

well

> > > as <BR>
> > > > possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if

this

> > > <BR>
> > > > candidate will be elected.<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the

language

> > > <BR>
> > > > abilities of this candidate. <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad

english

> > > <BR>
> > > > and I must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english

tongue.

> > > <BR>
> > > > I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However

I

> > > <BR>
> > > > don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the
> > <BR>
> > > > italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french
> > with
> > > <BR>
> > > > some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I
> > improve
> > > <BR>
> > > > my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > Valete<BR>
> > > > Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > << Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn
> > > English <BR>
> > > > as a <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight
> > <BR>
> > > > years. <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone

who 'learned

> > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > English in six months.'" <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > >><BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Salvete<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > You can communicate roughly in English is six months.

However,

> > > <BR>
> > > > you will make <BR>
> > > > > as many mistakes as you will get it right. 3-4 years of
> > > constant <BR>
> > > > daily use, <BR>
> > > > > and you become accomplished. You will still make small
> > mistakes
> > > <BR>
> > > > like "make" a <BR>
> > > > > bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.
> > <BR>
> > > > Spelling is <BR>
> > > > > harder. <BR>
> > > > > It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was

only

> > > <BR>
> > > > because I <BR>
> > > > > learned English at a very early age. Still when Bacchus is
> > upon
> > > <BR>
> > > > me, it <BR>
> > > > > resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days

will

> > > so <BR>
> > > > confirm.<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Valete<BR>
> > > > > Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > </tt>
> > > >
> > > > <br>
> > > >
> > > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
> > > >
> > > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> > > > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> > > > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo!

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> > > www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732"

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> > >
> >

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> > > > </tt>
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> > > >
> > > > <br>
> > > > <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
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> >
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flix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116730>

> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service

> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Pomponia:

Si hoc discant, felicior simus.

Vale

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: rory12001
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 3:29 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: President Bush Visits Baghdad Today!


Salve Tite Labiene;
I thought that was a modernism but as you say my OED puts it back
to the Anglo-Saxons.
As for you Servi Equiti, sorry but I can tell you just when the
teaching of grammar disappeared in the U.S. with the demise of Latin!
Teachers today have no idea what a participle is much less the
agreement of tense or case and they are passing their ignorance on.
Of course language should change but being clueless is not a
recommendation.
Thank goodness Latin is being brought back precisely for the above
reasons, to make Americans more literate.
Once you know when to use the Subjunctive you will be confident,
self-assured, a true Roman!
vale Pomponia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:
> Salve Servi Equiti
>
> > They is a plural, or I should say WAS a plural,...
>
> They has been used as a singular in English for more than a
thousand
> years. Sentences with constructions similar to, "Everyone take out
> their notebooks," have been around since Anglo-Saxon times.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> "Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
> them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the
more
> merit is in your bounty."
> -Shakespeare


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm running for Tribune as you well know, and that was an unofficial
post, a distinction that seems beyond you.

Drusus

rory12001 wrote:

> Druse;
> the word is 'competent' which you have mispelled twice as well
> as 'inappropriate' where you seem to have entirely forgotten an 'r'.
> Now I know English is your native language; which office are you
> running for?
> vale Pomponia
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Lets apply a little context here.
> > This matter started when Apulus was conducting a quiz on Roman
> History
> > and not one but two professional historians were being told that
> thier
> > replies were incorrect after both misunderstood the questions on
> more
> > than one occasion.
> >
> > A
> >
> > rory12001 wrote:
> >
> > > Salve Francisce Apule;
> > > I just want to add my 2 cents that I have always enjoyed your
> posts
> > > And it is entirely rude to point it out to you any deficiencies in
> > > grammar or tense.
> > > I am sorry that a countryman would display such poor manners;
> > > especially when Italians are so encouraging to those that attempt
> to
> > > speak their language.
> > > As for Maximus, since he lives in California he should be
> more
> > > than able to cope with all varieties of English. Or he can write:
> > >
> > > "Francisco, non posso comprendere la sua lettera; mi scriva in
> > > Italiano"
> > > how hard is that?
> > > vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
> > >
> > > > A fine information from my job: recent studies showed us that
> it's
> > > > not important the errors in a text because even we're able to
> read
> > > > it fastly and understand the meaning. For example, the english
> > > > should read and understand fastly a text like "Sorhry, pleaze,
> > > whers
> > > > iss tha frencch ristaurant Maxim? The resttaurant is infronte
> of yu"
> > > >
> > > > (about ludi, religious
> > > > events, project of Magna Mater, etc.) weren't absolutely
> > > > understandable.
> > > > Sorry, Amice, thank you very much for your words but I disagree
> > > your
> > > > answer about Mr. Maximus and his reasons.
> > > >
> > > > About the technical equipment of Mr. Maximus, I must to note you
> > > > that he didin't answered to my official e-mails not for a
> couple of
> > > > weeks, but from April to October of this year ... He had 9
> months
> > > of
> > > > technical problems? Why he sent messages in the Main List if he
> had
> > > > this problems?
> > > > I have too techinical problems and a bad equipment (and this is
> > > very
> > > > important for my job) and I was obliged to work "half-time" in
> NR
> > > > but I don't think that 9 months are reasonable.
> > > >
> > > > Amice, how I must to valuate a candidacy not thinking to the
> past?
> > > > About Mr. Maximus I know only the past and I don't want give my
> > > vote
> > > > only following the "faith for him". We are electing the higher
> nova
> > > > roman officer and we have to check and analyze the past, the
> > > present
> > > > and the future of the candidates...
> > > >
> > > > Thank you again for your fine words and message, I appreciated
> > > it. :-
> > > > )
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene
> > > > Fr. Apulsu Caesar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> > > > Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > > > > Salve Franciscus Apulus Caesar!
> > > > >
> > > > > My friend, I do not even know where to begin! I am apalled
> at
> > > > the bad manners of some people who would actually send you mail
> of
> > > > that type - shocked, really! While your English has a
> > > > definite "accent" in the writing, I have always understood what
> you
> > > > were saying and enjoyed each Post you have made! We have
> > > > corresponded frequently, and I have undertood and appreciated
> each
> > > > letter. It saddens me that some do not appreciate the joy that
> you
> > > > bring to all that you do for Nova Roma. Forgive them, please -
> > > > clearly those Citizens do not fully understand how International
> > > our
> > > > Community is. Just keep being yourself - they will come to
> learn
> > > in
> > > > time.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for the Collegium of Pontiffs, it is my own only
> experience
> > > > of not receiving a Reply - do not take that personally either:
> They
> > > > seem to have internal communications problems there. I too
> wrote
> > > > them more than once, and received no response: My only
> experience
> > > > like that in Nova Roma. Every other person I have written to -
> > > > complete strangers because I am so new - all wrote back, to the
> > > > great credit of the wonderful people we have here. Only the
> > > > Collegium failed to write back, and I assure you my English is
> > > > impeccable so that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! They
> must
> > > > just have a problem deciding whose turn it is to answer mail, or
> > > > something like that. I am sure it was nothing personal!
> > > > >
> > > > > I maintain personal correspondence with some of our
> Pontifices,
> > > > including Q. Fabius. He did have some difficulties replying up
> > > > until a few weeks ago, due to the nature of his work. As he
> has
> > > > said in Postings, Q.Fabius has since then upgraded his computer
> > > > equipment and can answer promptly no matter where he is now. I
> > > > know, as he always responds to me promptly now; a few weeks ago
> it
> > > > would have taken days, if he was away on business - I know,
> because
> > > > that's how long it took for him to respond back then. That is
> no
> > > > longer the case, though: Q Fabius' new equipment does indeed
> allow
> > > > him to Reply right away no matter where he is or how far away
> from
> > > > any amenities. So please do not hold past experience against
> him:
> > > > He realized there was a problem and he has fixed it. That's a
> good
> > > > thing! What you - and I - experienced in the past will no
> longer
> > > > happen. It has not happened for a couple of weeks now, I can
> > > assure
> > > > you, so I believe him when he says there will be no problems in
> the
> > > > future either. He now has spare computers and the equipment
> needed
> > > > to send and receive even in the Wilderness.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know what is going on with the Collegium, but he is
> > > only
> > > > one of many there so it would be unfair to hold that against
> him.
> > > > The promptness of his replies in this debate show that the other
> > > > problem lay with the Collegium, not with Q. Fabius. He can and
> > > does
> > > > reply swiftly, even if others in the Collegium do not, which
> shows
> > > > that he is not the problem but a solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, my Friend, I am very sorry that some have been rude
> to
> > > > you - please try to be forgiving, because I assure you every
> post
> > > > you make or letter you write is perfectly clear to me and I am
> sure
> > > > to all of us except for those few, so ignore them and keep
> writing
> > > > to the rest of us who appreciate your words!
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale bene
> > > > > ~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > > > > Sent: Nov 28, 2003 5:32 PM
> > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Language Abilities
> > > > >
> > > > > <html><body>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <tt>
> > > > > Salvete Omnes<BR>
> > > > > what a paradox! It's very strange for me to read this words by
> > > <BR>
> > > > > poeple which attacked in the past for language abilities or
> > > didn't
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > answered because the english was imperfect.<BR>
> > > > > During the last months I sent a couple of official e-mails to
> the
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > Collegium of Pontiffs and to the author of this words about
> <BR>
> > > > > important matters. I never received answers... The only answer
> > > was
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > written by the author of this words after several weeks and he
> > > > said <BR>
> > > > > me that he "didn't answered because he didn't understood the
> > > > meaning <BR>
> > > > > of the mails". The logic says me that if I don't understand a
> > > > thing <BR>
> > > > > I have to ask to the author a better explanation because it's
> <BR>
> > > > > reasonable and polite that he could be different from me...
> And I
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > smile when I read that teh author of this words know well my
> <BR>
> > > > > languages, the italian and its dialects.<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > So I ask to myself and to you all how a Censor could
> accomplish
> > > > his <BR>
> > > > > duties if he could not answer to uncorrect english mails. The
> > > > number <BR>
> > > > > of citizens speaking a not-english language is growing up as
> well
> > > > as <BR>
> > > > > possible and I fear that many of them will be ignorated if
> this
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > candidate will be elected.<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > I hope to be wrong and that my fears will not happen ...<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > P.S.: Someone like me is waiting for an answer about the
> language
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > abilities of this candidate. <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > P.S. II: I received in the past many attacks about my bad
> english
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > and I must to admit that I'm not a "champion" of english
> tongue.
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > I'm spending an english class to improve my ablities. However
> I
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > don't speak english every day because the mother-tongue is the
> > > <BR>
> > > > > italian, I work in italian and often I must to talk in french
> > > with
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > some old clients customers in Nice. I ask you "sorry" if I
> > > improve
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > my english in a time longer than 6 months ;-)<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > Valete<BR>
> > > > > Fr. Apulus Caesar<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > In a message dated 11/28/03 5:04:33 PM, mjk@d... writes:<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > << Email Sandra Nichols "How long does it take to learn
> > > > English <BR>
> > > > > as a <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > second language? Bilingual experts say it takes six to eight
> > > <BR>
> > > > > years. <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > Everyone else seems to know someone or be someone
> who 'learned
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > English in six months.'" <BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > >><BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > Salvete<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > You can communicate roughly in English is six months.
> However,
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > you will make <BR>
> > > > > > as many mistakes as you will get it right. 3-4 years of
> > > > constant <BR>
> > > > > daily use, <BR>
> > > > > > and you become accomplished. You will still make small
> > > mistakes
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > like "make" a <BR>
> > > > > > bath rather than "take" a bath, but that is to be expected.
> > > <BR>
> > > > > Spelling is <BR>
> > > > > > harder. <BR>
> > > > > > It took me 10 years to lose my German accent, and that was
> only
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > because I <BR>
> > > > > > learned English at a very early age. Still when Bacchus is
> > > upon
> > > > <BR>
> > > > > me, it <BR>
> > > > > > resurfaces, as people who had dinner with me at Roman days
> will
> > > > so <BR>
> > > > > confirm.<BR>
> > > > > > <BR>
> > > > > > Valete<BR>
> > > > > > Q. Fabius Maximus<BR>
> > > > > <BR>
> > > > > </tt>
> > > > >
> > > > > <br>
> > > > >
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