Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Dec 1-2, 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17419 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Dignitas et Gravitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17420 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17421 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17422 From: Pompeia Cornelia Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Public Apology to Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17423 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17424 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Restriction of Polls
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17425 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Withdraw as Quaestor and re-candidacy as Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17426 From: Flavia Luccila Merula Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re censor campaign
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17427 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17428 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting Part Two
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17429 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17430 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: File - List Guidelines, Main List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17431 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17432 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17433 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Declaration of Candidacy: Curator Araneum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17434 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17435 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17436 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17437 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17438 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17439 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Ciao!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17440 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: All That Is Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17441 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17442 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17443 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17444 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17445 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17446 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17447 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17448 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Coward returns.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17449 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17450 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17451 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17452 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17453 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Mysterious fool.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17454 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17455 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17456 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17457 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17458 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17459 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Oath to Pietas - Kalends December
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17460 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17461 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17462 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17463 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17464 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17465 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17466 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17467 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17468 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Civility, Campaigning , Candidates and Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17469 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Answers of Arminius Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17470 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17471 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17472 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17473 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17474 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17475 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Next Consuls: my support
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17476 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17477 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Digest No 966 Curmudgeons of the world unite!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17478 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17479 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Two very good Praetores
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17480 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17481 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Public Apology to Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17482 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Saturninus for Quaestor!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17483 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17484 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Restriction of Polls
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17485 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Announcing my Candidacy for Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17486 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17487 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Next Consuls: my support
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17488 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A question for Senator Sicinius Drusus (WAS: A Response to...)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17489 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Announcing my Candidacy for Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17490 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17491 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Digest No 963 Censor Campaign QFM comments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17492 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17493 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A question for Senator Sicinius Drusus (WAS: A Response to...)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17494 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Re censor campaign
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17495 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17496 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Taste of the Ancient World
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17497 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17498 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17499 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Egypt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17500 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Drusus Canidate Statement
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17501 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: : Re: Ciao!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17502 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular cand
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17503 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17504 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17505 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Online Comic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17506 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Egypt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17507 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest No 966 Curmudgeons of the world unite!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17508 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest No 963 Censor Campaign QFM comments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17509 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Curmudgeons versus Comedians
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17510 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsement: Arminius Maior for Praetor!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17511 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17512 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Vetos (was Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17513 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest Number 968
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17514 From: jim mcfadden Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Saturninus for Quaestor!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17515 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Resignation from Consular Cohors & The Upcoming Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17516 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: my candidate endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17517 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17518 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsements for Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17519 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17520 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17521 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17522 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsements for Praetor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17523 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: APPOINTMENT of PROPRAETOR for HIBERNIA PROVINCIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17524 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Re censor campaign
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17525 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Declaration as candidate for Aedile Curule
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17526 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17527 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Vetos (was Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17528 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17529 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17530 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17531 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: APPOINTMENT of PROPRAETOR for HIBERNIA PROVINCIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17532 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17533 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17534 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17535 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17536 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17537 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17538 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Let Us Speak to the Ages
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17539 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17540 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17541 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17542 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17543 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17544 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17545 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17546 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17547 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Historical precedents
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17548 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: QUESTION FOR CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17549 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17550 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17551 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17552 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17553 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17554 From: Caivs Ivlivs Barcinvs Ciconivs Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Posseion new Propraetor Provincia of Mexico
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17555 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17556 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17557 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: vote for Gn. Salix Astur & Saturninus; from a new civis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17558 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17559 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: vote for Gn. Salix Astur & Saturninus; from a new civis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17560 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17561 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: All That Is Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17562 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17563 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17564 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Regarding Number of Assistants
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17565 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17566 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17567 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17568 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17569 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17570 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17571 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17572 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Capiti Censi in NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17573 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17574 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17575 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17576 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17577 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17578 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17579 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17580 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17581 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17582 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17583 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17584 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17585 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17586 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17587 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: All That Is Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17588 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: VOTING RESULTS OF COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17589 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: VOTING RESULTS OF COMITIA CENTURIATA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17590 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Children need to play nice
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17591 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17592 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17593 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17594 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17419 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Dignitas et Gravitas
Accolades! to all the citizens who are rallying both publicly and via
private mail to my humble but heartfelt call 'To Concience'. Let us
never forget the dignitas et gravitas of Rome! Good men have died
for that.

Upon reverent reflection, I would suggest a firm but compassionate
handling of the disrespectful 'poll' prankster. This is probably the
work of a precocious child, and let us not forget that to have
accessed NR in the first place this youth must have had at least some
interest in the culture and language of our beloved patria. When his
(or her)identity is brought to light and his citizenship revoked on
account of age, he could be guided into a course of study and private
correspondence with a wise and mature mentor. Precocious children
may often seek attention because they are bored, and at least the
youth sought out people of culture and accomplishment to "play with".

Please do not think me so naive as to discount the sad possibility
that this is the work of an "adult". If so, then we need heap no
further scorn. Whether we believe in the Gods, the Divine, or other
Workings of the Universe, the individual in question is self-
condemned, damnatio est, by having called himself a Roman, and having
shamed himself.

Blessings to Those Who Honor the Dignity of Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17420 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: New poll for Nova-Roma
Salvete all,

As a competitor for Consul against Gnaeus Equitius I would just like to say that whomever made this
poll is an idiot. I don't know what a T-Gurl is but I doubt that it is anything flattering.

Valete,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17421 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments
Salve Cordus

You are correct, as usual my friend!
Indeed, I was basing the number upon Diana's comments, I was not actually keeping a running tally of Posters, so I withdrawal the comment about the 22, and shall take you at your word that there were indeed only 5 doing the deed. Mea Culpa!
It does not change the basic fact that the efforts of these 5 have wasted a lot of time of a lot of people.
I stand corrected on the number of people, but still want to see issues and not name calling or charater assassination.
If people can't stick to the issues, the Moderator should start rejecting their posts, returning them to the sender marked "Off Topic and Personal - Please send Privately".
Of course, that's just my opinion - others may be finding the whole sordid affair to be a jolly romp.
Personally, I find it disgusting.

Bene vale
~ Servius


-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Nov 30, 2003 11:33 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Censor Campaign QFM comments

<html><body>


<tt>
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius<BR>
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
<BR>
You wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   I followed that thread, and what I saw was a group<BR>
> of people carrying on a private clique conversation<BR>
> on the Main List, trying to see how many ways they<BR>
> could insult Drusus just to see if they could goad<BR>
> him.<BR>
...<BR>
>   That's right: 22 people couldn't think of a single<BR>
> actual issue to discuss, and I for one am disgusted<BR>
> at having had my time reading the List wasted in<BR>
> this way!<BR>
<BR>
May I ask the names of the 22 people you accuse?<BR>
<BR>
Since you were responding to a message in which<BR>
Tribune Moravia Aventina mentioned the senior Consul's<BR>
"22 citizen Cohors Consulis", one might easily assume<BR>
that you mean those same 22 people. However, at the<BR>
time you posted your comments (above) only five<BR>
members of the Consul's staff had posted under this<BR>
subject line.<BR>
<BR>
So if these are the 22 people you mean then I suggest<BR>
you withdraw your comment lest you make 17 sudden<BR>
enemies! If, on the other hand, you mean 22 different<BR>
individuals, you had best name them so that we are all<BR>
clear what's what.<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs<BR>
<a href="http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams">http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams</a><BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17422 From: Pompeia Cornelia Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Public Apology to Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus
P. Cornelia Omnesque S.P.D.

Marcus Cassius, I extend to you a public apology in
front of the populas of Nova Roma for my unsavoury
remarks regarding your policies and leadership of the
Collegium Pontificium made in July of this year.

I do this not out of fear, nor out of a desire to
obtain anything, but out of conscience. I behaved
very badly, and treated the religious leader of this
organization in a fashion that I would not treat any
other religious leader.

Indeed, I have many complaints about the policies of
the Pope himself, but I would not yell at him the way
I did at you. And, indeed, any opinions, and indeed I
do have them, with respect to matters regarding you,
the collegium and its administration I should have
rendered to you in private, and not disrespectully in
the open forum.

I met you and Patricia at Roman Days at 2000. I
shared food and wine with you. I have let unfortunate
Political events 'on line' obscure the good times and
fond memories. None of us is perfect, and just who the
hell do I think I am? I am sure I have driven you to
anger, which, generally, is pretty tough to do. I am
truly sorry. I have learned alot about my self this
past year and a half, and have had a serious 'think'
of who I am, what I truly find desirous of myself as a
person, and what I can best do for myself and those I
care about. I am happy to advise, but Po shall not be
stepping back into the political ring for quite some
time, if ever.

I have a tree in my backyard, which is ontop of a few
things offered to Ceres during a ritual performed at
Fort Malden in 2002. The tree has been somewhat of a
sacred space for me, being intuned to the things of
Rome, and it reminds me of the provincia's citizens.
This tree, since I made my rather discordant outburst,
has been ailing. It lost its leaves quite
prematurely, and although is still living, is quite
small and sickly looking, in comparison to a similar
sapling I planted this year. It changed so quickly.
Whatever the cause of this, it made me think that
there was something radically wrong. Of course the
entire discourse was crustily delivered, but it was
something 'worse' than that. It made me realize that
my treatment of you was not only insulting of you,
but probably alienated alot of people I've met who are
RR practitioners. I am sorry if I have made anyone
uneasy for no legitimate reason. I am sorry that I
allowed certain unofficial politico/religious dynamics
to treat you in a manner I do not wish to be treated
myself.

I can't buy you a new car, Marce Cassi, or give you a
million dollars, but as a peace offering, and a
gesture of my genuine realization of the fact that I
'screwed up bigtime' in this regard, I have forwarded
a small donation to the Magna Mater Project. I know
this is a poor bandaid, but I see, from a purview of
this list, that it was approved by the Senate.

I find that since I have spent time in the glass
house of politics, I shall not throw stones. But I
pray that the forthcoming elections will bring Nova
Roma the magistrates she needs and deserves. We are
now talking the proper handling of growing sums of
money, the proper handling of a large data base of
names, addresses, phone numbers, etc. May appropriate
macronational experiences, previous prerequisite
magisterial experience, degree of commitment to Nova
Roma projects outside of magistracies (although this
is important too), honesty, a consistently
demonstrated regard for citizens and their wellbeing,
and virtue win this election.

I wish you the best, and I hope you and Patricia,
Priestess of Minerva, find it in your hearts to
forgive me

I shall continue for the while to be low-profile. I
am unsubscribing as soon as I send this note.



Pompeia



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17423 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Salvete

Now THIS is a most excellent issue! Other Candidates, what do you think? There are lots of us, scattered though we be, who would jump at the chance! I have a low mileage car with a full tank of gas, my insurance is paid & DMV stuff all in order - but nothing scheduled in the region. Bummer. How come? I've heard enough others voice similar sentiments, so how about it?
Candidates?

Valete
Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
Sent: Nov 30, 2003 11:57 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Local Groups

<html><body>


<tt>
Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.<BR>
<BR>
Salvete, Romani cives.<BR>
<BR>
I have already spoken about recruitment, so I would now like, with <BR>
your permission, to talk about another important aspect of the future <BR>
of Nova Roma: local groups.<BR>
<BR>
Nova Roma has been, so far, a mainly "virtual" affair. We have talked <BR>
to each other on mailing lists, we have debated over many different <BR>
subjects and topics, we have made new friends and built bonds over <BR>
oceans and continents, and we have tried to bring back a little bit <BR>
of Rome through all this.<BR>
<BR>
But I am sure that many of you will think that all that, although <BR>
good, is not enough. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually bring <BR>
a little bit of Rome to our everyday lifes?<BR>
Think about eating some Roman food, for instance, or learning to play <BR>
to a Roman board game. Or perhaps you'd like to dress like a true <BR>
Roman, while enjoying a good, real life Latin conversation.<BR>
<BR>
Can we have all this? Sure. The answer is local groups.<BR>
<BR>
We now have a few laws regarding the creation of local groups. If I <BR>
am elected, I would like to actively encourage our citizenry to <BR>
create those local groups. Once more, I will need your help and <BR>
enthusiasm in this task; think about it well, and you'll come to the<BR>
conclusion that creating a local group is going to be fun :-).<BR>
<BR>
Besides the fun, there is another aspect of local groups that perhaps <BR>
has not been sufficiently stressed. I am talking about their <BR>
potential religious aspect. The Religio Romana is, to a certain <BR>
extent, a social religion, and it needs a social framework to bloom.<BR>
Nova Roma was actually created to act as that framework. I think that <BR>
local groups will be able to provide the infrastructure needed to <BR>
begin celebrating the Sacra Publica, so that the Religio comes out of <BR>
our atria and our lararia to live and breath under the Sun. <BR>
In order to attain this important objective, I will keep in contact <BR>
with our highest religious institution (the Collegium Pontificium) to <BR>
discuss the best way to provide a religious meaning to those local <BR>
groups.<BR>
<BR>
So this is what I would want our local groups to be: a physical <BR>
community where we can live the different aspects of a Roman life. <BR>
Would you like to join me in trying to build those communities?<BR>
<BR>
Cn. Salix Astur<BR>
Candidatus Consularis<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17424 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Restriction of Polls
Salve Severi,

It may be tempting but one of the privilages of Roman citizenship was
that a citizen could not be flogged or cruxcified. We've checked that
out in historical annals before. For example, that was an technical
error in the movie Spartacus when Crassus (Laurence Olivier) had
Peter Ustinov flogged out of camp. Similarily governor Felix was
upset to hear that St. Paul had been flogged after he found out
about his Roman citizenship. Paul, according to rumor was beheaded
and not put to the cross. I'm afraid you'll have to settle for
spitting the culprit through like a goose, firing him off a cliff or
beheading.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> Thank you for making a wise decision, Salix Astur.
> Since it is sadly almost definitely an N.R. Citizen who
perpetrated this disgraceful business, I strongly urge our finest
computer people to try to track down this lowlife so that they might
be banished.
> If anyone knows anything about who did this slander, please
report it to the appropriate Government authorities.
> This kind of behaviour is not to be suffered at all.
> (Have lumber, have nails, have post-hole digger: Would gladly
bring back an obsolete punishment just for the occassion.)
>
> Valete
> ~ Servius Equitius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@y...>
> Sent: Nov 30, 2003 11:40 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Restriction of Polls
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ex Officio Praetorio<BR>
> <BR>
> With deep sorrow I have to inform you that Nova Roma has been under
<BR>
> the attack of an unwelcome troll once more. A spurious poll was <BR>
> created with the purpose to insult some of our candidates to office
<BR>
> by a person who created a false account, joined our list, did the
<BR>
> damage and then hid like a coward.<BR>
> <BR>
> Because of this, I have taken the decision to close the poll
service <BR>
> in this mailing list. If any of you, citizens, have the desire to
<BR>
> create a legitimate poll for the readers of this mailing list,
please <BR>
> contact the praetores, who will be most pleased to create the poll
in <BR>
> your name.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thank you for your comprehension and cooperation.<BR>
> <BR>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.<BR>
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17425 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Withdraw as Quaestor and re-candidacy as Curule Aedile
Salvete Omnes,
as done when he candidated himself as Quaestor, I give now again my
full support to Marcus Iulius Perusianus for the Office of Curule
Aedile.

He's one of the creators and managers of the Project Magna Mater,
the man contacted the University La Sapienza and the Sovrintendenza
od Rome and first nova roman visiting the closed West area of the
Palatine where the Temple is.

I'm sure that he'll be a wonderful Aedile because he's skilled and
experienced, he has several good ideas and goals.
Good luck, Amice!

In the same way I want say to Octavius Pius that I'm very very sad
for your decision, you're a very good citizen and I was sure you'ld
be a great Magistrate. Our discussions about the Project and the web
matters showed me your excellent skills. I wish you good luck for
your private life and I hope to see you running for an Office the
next year.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Candidate as Tribune

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Milko Anselmi <perusianus@y...>
wrote:
> Salve Illustrus Consul Labienus et Omnes,
>
> I officially withdraw my candidacy as Quaestor.
>
> I present you officially my candidacy for the Office of Curule
Aedile for the next year.
>
> I'm very sad that Octavius Pius droped out for running as Aedile
and I wish him good luck for your private life. I thank him for his
full support to me.
> I'll came back to send publicly my declaration and goals as Curule
Aedile.
>
> Valete
> Marcus Iulius Perusianus
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati,
l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17426 From: Flavia Luccila Merula Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re censor campaign
>
>
>If people can't stick to the issues, the Moderator should start rejecting their posts, returning them to the sender marked "Off Topic and Personal - Please send Privately".
> Of course, that's just my opinion - others may be finding the whole sordid affair to be a jolly romp.
>
I wouldn't use the words 'jolly romp' but I'd hate to see posts
restricted purely to issues. I know I've mostly lurked up to now, due
to pressures of work and extra training I undertook. I'm hoping that'll
change. No matter how busy I've been I've enjoyed getting up in the
morning and reading these posts. It's the way I imagine a walk through
the Forum would have been.

Just as in the Forum, I wouldn't necessarily have stopped to listen to
every conversation, here I don't need to read every post to the end
(though I ususally do :-) ) We have an election capaign going on and
people hurling insults at each other and others urging us 'to
conscience' and to remember the dignitas and gravitas of Rome. We have
scurrillous fake pictures being posted of candidates. And, you know
what, all this reminds me of Rome. Did they hurl insults at each other
in the Forum? Of course, in fact they hurled more than that. They even
resorted to violence sending in soldiers or thugs depending on whether
you were a Marius or a Milo. (Now I'm not advocating that course of
action :-) ) As for the fake pictures posted to the poll, I'm sure, if
they'd had the technology, Caesar's opponents would have leapt at the
chance to illustrate their allegations of him bending over for the King
of Bithynia. And as for people discussing goats and sheep, that's fine
too by me. (By the way, when it comes to sheep, it's not the Scots you
need to worry about - it's the Welsh :-) )

Finally, as for being urged to remember our dignitas and stick to the
issues, I'm sure Cato and his followers did that frequently. For me,
and that's my opinion, it all contributes to making this list so 'Roman'

Flavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17427 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Salve bene Athanasius!

Thank you so much for pointing out how important Religio is for Community and Community for the Religio my friend!
So far from being bored, your words thrill and stir me by expressing so well my own hearts greatest desire !
Sescentas gratias! Haec habero dicere: Ut spero, proficimus alquantum - toto pectore!

Ex animo,
~ Servius Equitius Troianus

[Primus Latinitatis annus - emendere mi]
-----Original Message-----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
Sent: Nov 30, 2003 12:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Local Groups

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete:<BR>
<BR>
I would like to publicly agree with the esteemed Cn. Salix Astur.  <BR>
<BR>
I think the establishment of local groups to be essential for community <BR>
building.  For a Nova Roma community to truly exist the Religio Romana must be a <BR>
part of that community honoring and sacrificing to the Immortals.  I know there <BR>
are some people within Nova Roma who do not honor the Gods of Rome like a <BR>
believer in the Religio Romana would, but the Religio is essential to Nova Roma.  <BR>
Without the Religio Nova Roma suffers the possibility of becoming like the SCA <BR>
-- which is a good organization in its own right, but is not a Micronation it <BR>
is role-playing.    To truly build a Roman community we need the Gods, the <BR>
Immortals ARE also members of our Nova Roma community.  The Immortals are the <BR>
link between Nova and Antiqua, because they were a part of the Rome of antiquity <BR>
- the Rome we honor and respect.<BR>
<BR>
I like the idea of a Lex establishing local communities.  Although I disagree <BR>
with the way the lex was written, I think it could have been written a little <BR>
better -- but that will be work for the new administration to consider.  I am <BR>
also disappointed that the lex made no consideration for the Religio.  I know <BR>
the Collegium as a whole was not consulted by the authors of the lex, and <BR>
that disappoints me.<BR>
<BR>
Nova Roma is an awesome testament to tolerance and community.  Christians and <BR>
Pagans (note:  I acknowledge that many followers of the Religio do not like <BR>
that term) working together for the betterment of the Roman community.  This is <BR>
truly monumental, and it is truly a statement of tolerance and understanding. <BR>
I know people that are afraid to express their love for the Gods at work, <BR>
and out in the open for fear of repression and misunderstanding.  Here within <BR>
Nova Roma we can be ourselves.  We can be the cosmopolitan mixing pot the was <BR>
Rome.<BR>
<BR>
I see different factions attacking each other from different angles.  I see <BR>
the benefit of one magistrate having a large cohors and I understand the <BR>
reasons why some people look down upon it.  I see the various sides of the many <BR>
coins within Nova Roma, but I wonder if all the conflict that goes on is truly for <BR>
the betterment of our Republic.  It can get viscous at times.  Within the <BR>
Catholic Church there is an order of monks known as the Benedictine Order.  The <BR>
Benedictines have two sayings, "In all things may God be glorified," and, "In <BR>
honor preventing one another."  Their philosophy is that all you're actions <BR>
should be done to honor God, and that you shouldn't do something if you know it <BR>
is going to cause grief or distress to another.  I'm not saying that everyone <BR>
has to lay down let someone attack them, or to agree with everything everyone <BR>
says.  But perhaps we should all try to work together a little more.<BR>
<BR>
I KNOW I can come across as rude, arrogant, and obnoxious on-line from time <BR>
to time.  I try to moderate myself, but sometimes I am not successful.  But I <BR>
try.  I say these things because building community is why most of us are here. <BR>
Some might be here to build a community because they are interested in Roman <BR>
culture.  Some Roman Religion.  Some Roman history. Etc...  The key is Roman.<BR>
<BR>
I am Honored to be a part of Nova Roma.  I value my citizenship and my <BR>
involvement.  I would very much like to see local groups become more of a part of <BR>
Nova Roma, and I would very much like to see the development of a local <BR>
priesthood.  Thank you Salix Astur for bring up the idea of local groups and the <BR>
Religio.<BR>
<BR>
I hope my diatribe on community has not bored anyone, or offended anyone.<BR>
<BR>
Valete;<BR>
<BR>
G. Modius Athanasius<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/30/2003 2:58:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
salixastur@... writes:<BR>
Besides the fun, there is another aspect of local groups that perhaps <BR>
has not been sufficiently stressed. I am talking about their <BR>
potential religious aspect. The Religio Romana is, to a certain <BR>
extent, a social religion, and it needs a social framework to bloom.<BR>
Nova Roma was actually created to act as that framework. I think that <BR>
local groups will be able to provide the infrastructure needed to <BR>
begin celebrating the Sacra Publica, so that the Religio comes out of <BR>
our atria and our lararia to live and breath under the Sun. <BR>
In order to attain this important objective, I will keep in contact <BR>
with our highest religious institution (the Collegium Pontificium) to <BR>
discuss the best way to provide a religious meaning to those local <BR>
groups.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
<BR>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17428 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting Part Two
Salvete Illustris Senatores,

> Item 8 Pass VTI ROGAS-11 ANTIQUO-7 ABSTINEO-2
>
> Measure 8 pass and the Curule Aediles can start their work
according
> to this decision.
>
> ITEM 8. The Aedilian Fund and The Magna Mater Project

I want to thank you very much to have accepted my proposal about the
Project of Magna Mater, I think we're moving a very important step
for Nova Roma. Your authorization give us the possibilities to
improve this project and start a closer collaboration with the most
important experts and istitutions of the Palatine in Rome.

I want only explain to the some Illustrus Member of the Senate what
is my proposal because I know understand it wasn't so clear.
As Senator Arminius Maior wrote, we don't ask to the Senate money
for the project, the Senate is not obliged to send us a donation. Of
course we'll very happy if the Senate and the other public nova
roman Istitution would like to donate a sum. But my proposal was to
receive the authorization to use the Aedilician Fund to raise
private donations. The money will come back from nova roman
volunteers wanting to give us a sum to realize the first step of
this project.

About the expansive cost of the project, I'll very happy and proud
to answer to all of you privatly to explain better the project and
the offer of this italian society.
In any way, I'll glad to talk with Illustrus Marcus Octavius
Germanicus or anyother about cheapest offers of web-hosting, domain
and data base. This features are the cheapest voices in our proposal
but we could maybe leave 250-300 $ and spend this money to other
thing liek the printing of promotional materials (little flyers for
example) and/or a mailing to the Universities.

I want to give a special gratitude and congratulations for the
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus which worked hard for this project.
He's the "grandfather" of the project Magna Mater and I hope he's
proud to see how it growed in the last months.
I hope that the next Curule Aedile (I hope Marcius Iulius
Perusianus) will be able to manage the project with the same our
passion and goals.

Senatores, again thank you very much from me and my staff and people
involved in the project. I'm here if you want other explanations and
it will be my goal give you costant reports about the status of the
project.
Gratias Plurima!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17429 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Local Groups
Salvete!

Thanks...I hope people see the message with the intent it was given, and not
as either a political rant, or as an attempt to play to one faction or the
other. It is neither. Just my thoughts on the subject, and I have not voiced
them but have wanted to. A lot of people get more active this time of year
because of the elections.

Thanks for your kind words.

Valete;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 12/1/2003 5:05:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hermeticagnosis@... writes:
So far from being bored, your words thrill and stir me by expressing so well
my own hearts greatest desire !


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17430 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: File - List Guidelines, Main List
Ex Officio Praetorium

EDICTVM PRAETORICIVM DE MODERATIONE

The praetores of Nova Roma hereby define the guidelines for
appropriate usage of Nova Roma's public communication forum, currently
located at:
Nova_Roma@yahoogroups.com

These guidelines are based on the guidelines previously issued by
our predecessors (Pompeia Cornelia and Patricia Cassia). As praetores
of Nova Roma, though, we keep the right to change these guidelines in
the future.

I. The Nova Roma forum (herein referred to as 'the list') is set up
so that replies will automatically be sent to the entire list. Please
keep this in mind when you are replying. You are not issuing a
private email. If your reply is intended for only one member, and has
no benefit to the rest of the list subscribers, consider sending it
privately.

II. Posts that merely voice agreement with a previous post without
expanding on an issue in any way are discouraged.

III. Please trim your posts. When replying to a thread, snip
unnecessary sections of the original post for brevity, and indicate
where you have done so by printing <snipped> at the appropriate space.
Correct usage of snipping prevents large posts that can quickly fill
subscribers mailboxes

IV. If you feel you must dispute or criticize another person's post,
consider doing so in private.
Sometimes a person makes a genuine mistake, and your gentle correction
via private email means much more to them than potentially
embarrassing them in the forum over what is an innocent error. We know
that during political debates, private exchanges are impractical.
Please use discretion in this area.

V. It is entirely appropriate to disagree publicly with another's
stated views or another's actions as they report such, or with the
actions of Nova Roma's Magistrates, Senate or otherwise appointed
officials.
Nova Roma is an organization of individuals from a wide variety of
nations, religions, cultural backgrounds and political viewpoints, and
it is only reasonable that our views should differ.

Please consider the following when expressing disagreement of opposing
viewpoints:

* Express respect for the person and the entitlement to his opinion,
and faith in his or her good intentions.

* Point out any themes in which you do not agree.

* If in the criticism of a person's actions, perhaps in the capacity
of a magistrate or senator, point out specifically which actions you
are referring to. Quote the message number of the post in
which you base your account and opinions. This makes things more
objective and often helpful to the person in question, as to what,
specifically, you are referring to, and your issues with same.

* In an academic debate, endeavor to offer references to back up your
assertions.

* At all times maintain politeness in the expression of your opinion
and endeavour to respect the rights and opinions of others.

Inappropriate behaviour includes:

the use of profane language; misrepresentation of the truth for the
purpose of making another person look foolish; calling others names;
criticizing a poster's personal character as opposed to criticizing his
ideas; making derrogatory, belittling, subjective statements about the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome (quoting from a myth does not apply) or
belittling deities of other religions for entertainment. Further, in
the interests of those under 18, sexual references must be strictly
within the context of an historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to
be made in private.

The arbitrary advertisment of goods and services (SPAM) is not
permitted on the Nova Roma mainlist, unless the advertiser is a member
of Nova Roma's marketplace, the Macellum. Macellum merchants are
welcome to advertise from time to time in a low-key fashion. This
entails a signature line/file, a one-time announcement of initial
affiliation with the Macellum, advertising in response to a post of
inquiry made in the forum, or an ad once every three months or so
advertising your presence in the Macellum.

VI. If you feel that a post is inappropriate in any way, consider
mailing the individual concerned privately, explaining your rationale
for grievance and asking for clarification"

If you would like to talk to us confidentially about a particular
post, please contact us at praetors@... .

VII: During the time leading up to elections (held each November and
occasionally at other times if offices become vacant) this list is one
of the forums where candidates express their views and present their
qualifications to the populace. All of the strictures governing
appropriate behaviour mentioned hereto, shall remain in place and
apply to all candidates and their supporters.

VIII: Please do not give out personal information (i.e., address or
phone number) to the list. While it would be pleasant to believe we
are all good-hearted and sane, we are not; you cannot trust in that.

IX: Due to the influxes of SPAM and past incidents of posts from
those who wish nothing but to cause disruption and insult to the list,
or particular subscribers of the list, to wit, TROLLS, it has become
necessary to place all new list members on Moderated Status, just
until we are satisfied that such persons are indeed here to celebrate
aspects of Roma Antiquita and Nova Roma, as opposed to being here for
unjustifiable reasons. This is unfortunate, but it has proved
necessary.

X: Language Policies

The forum of Roma Antiquita was a large venue, with people of
different languages conversing, a few in this corner, a few in that
corner.
Rome was a very mulicultured place in her glory. Mind you official
information was in Latin, and in some cases Greek, but people were
free to speak informally as they wished in the language of their
choice.
Our constitution mandates freedom of communication provided it is not
dangerous or disruptive.

Currently, the praetores can understand Latin, Spanish, French,
Italian and Portuguese, so messages in those languages are most
welcome. For other languages, help can be obtained from the decuria of
interpreters of Nova Roma.

Thanks to the decuria of interpreters and to several magistrates or
legates who are willing to assist with list moderation, 'informal'
communication in the forum is open to most main languages. Feel free
to post in English, Latin, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Fench, German,
Russian, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish or any Slavik language. The
Praetors have many to thank for efforts in this regard.

***Exception: This does not contravene the Lex Cornelia de Linguis
Publicus
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lege/index/html
which stipulates, though comitial mandate, that any offical government
legislation or priestly decrees must be issued in English or Latin
where applicable, so they can be translated verbatim into other
languages to be more easily understood by the entirety of the
populace.

XI. Topics of Discussion

The main focus of this list is Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua. However,
as members of a diverse international community we all have lives and
interests outside of Nova Roma. It is perfectly acceptable to discuss
non-Roman topics here, though keep in mind that not everyone may
share your interest in these topics.

XII: The Praetors have the imperium to govern the list, but prefer to
encourage positive interaction as opposed to punishing negative
behaviour. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these
guidelines aforementioned, the following escalated courses of
action shall be taken:

1.- A private memo from the Praetors' office or a Scribal designate,
stating the incident of infarction, and a reminder to review the
guidelines. Often people who are new to the list are not intentionally
trying to upset anybody.

2.- Another private memo as above.

3.- Moderated status (the poster may post but all posts
they issue are first reviewed by the Praetors or their designate).
The length of moderation shall be determined by the number of offences
in the past, the severity of the violation, and the intent to violate.
No citizen shall be kept in moderate status for more than 2 (two)
months
without a firm sentence issued by a legal court as described by the
Lex Salicia Iudiciaria:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

(For example: Nobody is going to be placed on moderated status for an
extended time for failure to trim posts or for saying 'me too')



Gnaeus Salix Astur,
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetores
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17431 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
To Marinus et al:

Actually I do know exactly what I am suggesting and what I am not. I never wrote about using the reenactment legions for the job of security but for ceremonial use only. For example, when Senator Marcus Audens was a magistrate he was preceeded by a milites from the XXIV who acted as his lictor. All I suggested about the legions was their use (if asked politely) to do some ceremonial work.
I am a former M.P. officer in the Tennessee Guard and have also worked security/crowd control/fire watch for a number of private organizations and events including a number of ACW/ECW reenactments, Pensic Wars, Highland Games, conventions, etc. Each and everytime there were instructions and training provided beforehand to prevent any misunderstandings and violations of laws regarding how security/fire watch/crowd control should behave and what they should do during a given situation. Example--if an individual with a camera continues to cross a safety line despite repeated requests to stay back, do not lay hands upon him or yell at him or curse him but instead call a member of the administrative staff to deal with the problem. Most individuals that I have ever dealt with will respond to a request by an individual who is in a uniform and obviously acting as a private security person (I do not include drunks, druggies, and arrogant idiots in this description)
If you will look at my post carefully, I never suggested that my idea for an urban cohort was to be put together haphazardly or without consulting with appropriate persons (law enforcement, private security, fire prevention, etc.) for training, organization, and establishment. I also clearly suggested that the formations be based on macronational/ continental lines as I recognize legal variations in every country and jurisdiction.
The idea was that this organization be used for NR events to insure that our citizens keep safe camps, enforce fire safety, act as crowd control during the legion demonstrations, make sure that outsiders are not allowed into the camps after dark, and provide information to the public about where units are camped and the schedule of events.
The training suggestions included a bit of ceremonial square-bashing and also unarmed combat; the latter was a suggestion based on experience that it is better to be able to defend yourself against an aggressive drunk with your hands than it is to spit them on a sword or bayonet OR have them crack open your head.
After nearly 25 years of doing this sort of duty at private organizational events, I only recall two occasions where something unpleasant occurred and in both cases, the individual's own friends and associates were the ones who piled on top of him to control him.
Finally, I was only making a suggestion about how our citizens could become more involved with service to the Republic.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17432 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Dear Drusus,


You have been beating this skeletal equine for a year now and all you succeeded in doing was making everyone aware of how big a grump you can be. If a magistrate wants to have a big staff, that is the business of the elected magistrate. I can assure you that as a member of the consular cohort, I was never privy to confidential information about any other citizen nor was I some sort of automaton who would violate a trust to serve the public good at the command of a magistrate.
Furthermore, your post comes perilously close to implying that members of a magistrate's staff are untrustworthy and would use confidential information in an inappropriate manner. Your post also suggests that CFQ would share confidential information with everyone who serves on his staff regardless of what might be appropriate.
If this is not the case, I apologize for my response. However, if you are making these implications, then you are (in my opinion, noble sir) a blockhead!

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17433 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Declaration of Candidacy: Curator Araneum
(re)Welcome home, friend!
Vale,

L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> With less than one day remaining in which to declare an intent to
> stand for office, it seems that no one aspires to the position of
> Curator Araneum. This important post that cannot be left vacant.
>
> I have consulted with the existing web team - T. Octavius Pius;
> J. Sempronia Magna; M. Arminius Maior; F. Apulus Caesar;
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus. All have declined to step up to the
> Curatorship themselves (or, for the present Curator, to continue
> a second year); all have encouraged me to regain the office and
> wish to work as part of the same team next year.
>
> Therefore, I now declare my intent to stand for the office of
> Curator Araneum for the year MMDCCLVII.
>
> I have held this position twice before - in 2001 and 2002. Those
> who have seen the website before I began its maintenance will know
> what I did during those years - a static site with a few "mailto"
> forms has been transformed into one that is dynamic, continuously
> updated, and database-driven; all of this accomplished with free
> software (FreeBSD, PostgreSQL, gcc, Perl).
>
> Next year, I will also be Censor. I do not expect to have much
> difficulty allocating time to two offices - and I speak from
> experience, in that I was Curator during my Consulship last
> year. I will continue to work with the current web team, as
> well as any new volunteers that wish to participate, and will
> delegate various tasks accordingly.
>
> My priorities will be a new interface for approving citizens,
> continued internationalization of the new citizen application,
> promoting usage of the calendar, and providing an alternate
> representation of the Tabularium organized by subject matter.
>
> Valete, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17434 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Just as I thought! You two make NR much more interesting and enjoyable for me. I love the witty repartee.

F Gal Aur Sec
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17435 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: To Diana & Marinus
Just as I thought! You two make NR much more interesting and enjoyable for me. I love the witty repartee.

F Gal Aur Sec
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17436 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17437 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Salve Galerius, et salvete quirites,

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Actually I do know exactly what I am suggesting and
> what I am not.

OK, your expansion makes that clear. Why not bring this
idea up in the Sodalitas Militarium (are you a member of
the Militarium mailing list?) and see how much interest
there is among the reenactors. If you'd rather not make
the post I can do so, but it's your idea and I'd rather
not steal your thunder.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17438 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17439 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Ciao!!
Salve e Ciao,

Chi a parla l'italiano? Io parla un piccolo italiano. Io in del primo
anno di liceo. Io in lezione d'italiano. Io ho 14 anni. Mia famiglia e di italia.
Io sono visitare italia in l'estate. Ci vediamo!

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17440 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: All That Is Rome!
"Cato"! Now there is a name with which to conjure! Revered and
sneered, he did have five horses shot out from under him in the
service of patria. All that is Rome, our heritage, rests upon the
sacrifice of men such as Cato, and to have been compared to him even
in some cyber forum is an honor to touch the heart like no other.

Yes, this forum is so very Roman, complete with excesses. The noble
and the ludicrous! Warriors and catamites! (this is of course not
directed to any one but refers to the manner in which a Citizen was
rudely lampooned) Candidates and commentators! Matrons and "gurlz"!
Scholarly exposition and farm animals! Priests, philosophers and
village idiots! Yes, this is truly Rome. Let us guard her well!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17441 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Personally, I don't care about my thunder unless it is my thunder that comes after too much fabas, cabbage, and cucumbers.
Marinus, if you want to take this up on the Sodalitas Militarium, you are most welcome to do so. I am not on the list but will likely join soon. If you are elected to the consulship and think that the ceremonial use of some of the legio reenactors is a good idea, then I say go with it.
By the by, I am not suggesting that we charter the Urban Cohort as a private security firm. This is unnecessary if they only are working at NR events. It is not as though they would be used in a non-NR occupation.

F Gal Aur Sec
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17442 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Reply to Marinus & Other Individuals about my suggestion
Salve Galerius, et salvete quirites,

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
> Marinus, if you want to take this up on the Sodalitas
> Militarium, you are most welcome to do so.

OK. I'll raise the question with the Militarium
Command group first, see what they think about it,
and then probably migrate it out to the Militarium
in general.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17443 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Dear Drusus,
>
>
> You have been beating this skeletal equine for a year now and all you
> succeeded in doing was making everyone aware of how big a grump you
> can be.

Not Quite, the first half of the year I made 1 public comment regarding
the size of the staff. When others were making comments on it I stated
that anyone who had observed how the Senior Consul ran his province
shouldn't be surprised about him appointing a large staff.

> If a magistrate wants to have a big staff, that is the business of the
> elected magistrate.

That is a point I made in my first post on thr staff. Privately I though
the absurd size of the staff and that organizational chart was
hilarious, and still hold that view.

> I can assure you that as a member of the consular cohort, I was never
> privy to confidential information about any other citizen nor was I
> some sort of automaton who would violate a trust to serve the public
> good at the command of a magistrate.

When the Consul started promulgating Leges and I saw that huge staff
serving as political pointmen overwhealming any poster that questioned
it's policies with a flood of replies. Some people find getting 15 to 20
replies to thier every post intimidating. That is when I became
concerned about the chilling implications on freedom of speach. Either
by accident or design the Cohors was making people reluctant to post,
and that is a situation that needs to be pointed out.

>
> Furthermore, your post comes perilously close to implying that members
> of a magistrate's staff are untrustworthy and would use confidential
> information in an inappropriate manner.

My post points out that the larger the number of people who have access
to confidental information the greater the likelyhood that it will leak.
That is a basic premise of security. You limit the number of people who
have access to the lowest possible number in order to limit the
possibility that information will leak.

> Your post also suggests that CFQ would share confidential information
> with everyone who serves on his staff regardless of what might be
> appropriate.

Since the Censors primary job is dealing with confidental information
about citizens any staff member who did NOT have access wouldn't be able
to provide any assistance to the Censor and would be providing no
services to the Res Publica in return for the title and Century points
he was recieving.

>
> If this is not the case, I apologize for my response. However, if you
> are making these implications, then you are (in my opinion, noble sir)
> a blockhead!


I Have held security clearances from the US government regarding
Cryptology and Nuclear Weapons, so I think I know a bit about security
procedures. It violates one of the basic premises of security to have a
large staff with acess to sensitive information. If someone dosen't have
access to information they can't dilvulge it.

CFQ has a long history of appointing far more people to his staff than
anyone else has ever needed to do the job. When the job he is seeking
involves the private information of citizens his inability to function
without a byzanthian staff is a matter of concern that the voters need
to keep in mind.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17444 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Quirites,
Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors serving as political
point men for the Senior Consul.

Is this the reason that CFQ appoints so many people to his staff?

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17445 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Salve Senator Drusus, et salvete quirites,

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Quirites,
> Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors
> serving as political point men for the Senior Consul.

You're conflating two things here Senator. The fact that
people post things supportive of Consul Quintillianus
means only that they are supportive of him. Many of these
same people were posting in support of him last year before
he was Consul, and before they were on his Consular staff.

I can assure you that there's no back-channel planning
or coordination of posts by people on the Consul's staff.
If anybody suggested such a thing I'd personally squash
it, as it would be wrong.

So when you see Cordus post something, and Galerius post
something, and Scaevola post something, it's not happening
because of an orchestrated "tag team" effort. It's because
those people all have perhaps similar thoughts on a matter,
and they're all of them inclined to speak up when they
have something to say.

I suppose it's possible that there's some sort of nefarious
business going on that I just didn't get invited to be a
part of, but I sincerely doubt it.

(And to answer a question you haven't yet asked, no, I
have no intention of having anywhere near as large a
consular staff for myself.)

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17446 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Dear Drusus:

We are not talking about U.S. Cryptology or Nuclear security measures. [Dilvulge? Is that a crytographical term? Vulgar Pickle] We are talking about NR, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, personal honor, and professional behavior--so stick to the subject.
Can you point to a single member of CFQ's staff who consistently released confidential information inappropriately AND please supply documentation to support your statement?
In regards to your statement concerning intimidation, would you please tell the citizens (who contacted you privately or publicly)about their being intimitated and who stopped posting (not hesitated-because that means they did continue to post) because of responses from the members of the consular cohor to please contact me privately off-list. I would like to apologize personally if I said anything that did anything to make them stop posting.
Before you posted your original remarks about the potentially-bloated staff of two dozen potentially loose-lipped, unreliable censorial scribes, did you email CFQ personally and ask him what his plans were in regards to his censorial staff if he were to be elected? Or did you think that you would be misinformed (aka lied to) by him, so you did not bother? Or were your remarks merely an inflammatory attack on his candidacy?
I await your answers (as do many citizens) with baited breath.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17447 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of us?

Have I posted as a private citizen or as "Accensus Ordinary"?
Have I posted that I am supporting C. Fabius Quintilianus for Censor or campaigned actively for him?
Do you have confidential censorial information that shows how I have voted for the past year about leges that CFQ has supported?
It is on record that I don't give a darn about points and was willing to work for the Republic for the honor of service alone so what is CFQ offering me to make me defend him?
The only reason that we are debating in public is that you have a remarkably one-sided way of looking at things and you cannot provide documentation to support your insinuations.
Q. Fabius Maximus is a curmudgeon by public declaration and I can respect that. You are a curmudgeon by action and attitude and you may be doing damage to your candidates' chances by your posts.
Perhaps the question you should ask, is why are so many citizens willing to support an honorable and fair-spoken man and work with him for the improvement of the Republic without any personal or material gain? It is not out of politics but due to personal observation of his manner and how he conducts himself in his life and office.
My NR political party IS the Republic. My NR political platform & agenda is to support the Constitution of the Republic. My choices for magistrates are based on my belief in their ability to do the job in an honorable & professional manner. If I am elected Rogator by the citizens I will serve them by obeying the leges that have been made concerning that office to the best of my ability. I will work with the proper magistrates whether I voted for them or not; whether I like them or not; whether I agree with them or not, even if it is you, Drusus, for the good of the Republic.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Citizen of Nova Roma First & Foremost
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17448 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: The Anonymous Coward returns.
> If I am proved wrong I will gladly join you in public condemnation.

Salve Silanus,

I agree with you. If any idiot out there thinks that they are doing me a favor by putting down G
Equitius Marinus in public, then they had better stop right now. Despite what you may think, these
posts are not making the victims look foolish, but are making their competitors cringe and think
"Please don't let this be one of my friends who is posting this shit".
For the record, I have some very nice IP tracking software and if I do find out who this is, don't
expect me to say 'thank you'.

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17449 From: Trajan Justinian Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
Ciao' Amico,
Si, anch'io parlo Italiano.
Sono ritornato quest'estate passato per visitare e' retornero'
l'estate prossima per visitare i mie cugini.
Penso che abboamo bisogno di praticare, lol.
Ho quasi 18 anni.
Stai bene, spero che parliamo subito.
Justinian


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> Salve e Ciao,
>
> Chi a parla l'italiano? Io parla un piccolo italiano. Io in del
primo
> anno di liceo. Io in lezione d'italiano. Io ho 14 anni. Mia
famiglia e di italia.
> Io sono visitare italia in l'estate. Ci vediamo!
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17450 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Dear Drusus:
>
> We are not talking about U.S. Cryptology or Nuclear security
> measures. [Dilvulge? Is that a crytographical term? Vulgar Pickle]
> We are talking about NR, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, personal honor,
> and professional behavior--so stick to the subject.

We are talking about information that can be used for idenity theft,
hardly a matter to take lightly. The basic premises of security of
confidental information are the same for any information, be it
Cryptology, Personal information of Citizens, or the formula for
Coca-Cola. The fewer people who have access to the information the less
the chance that it will be leaked.

>
> Can you point to a single member of CFQ's staff who consistently
> released confidential information inappropriately AND please supply
> documentation to support your statement?

A Basic premise of security is to trust the fewest people possible. It
isn't a matter of saying Nemo is an untrustworty person, it's a matter
of saying there is no posibility of Nemo being untrustworty if he has no
access to the information.

>
> In regards to your statement concerning intimidation, would you please
> tell the citizens (who contacted you privately or publicly)about their
> being intimitated and who stopped posting (not hesitated-because that
> means they did continue to post) because of responses from the members
> of the consular cohor to please contact me privately off-list. I
> would like to apologize personally if I said anything that did
> anything to make them stop posting.
> Before you posted your original remarks about the potentially-bloated
> staff of two dozen potentially loose-lipped, unreliable censorial
> scribes, did you email CFQ personally and ask him what his plans were
> in regards to his censorial staff if he were to be elected? Or did
> you think that you would be misinformed (aka lied to) by him, so you
> did not bother? Or were your remarks merely an inflammatory attack on
> his candidacy?
> I await your answers (as do many citizens) with baited breath.


My Comments are based on CFQ's performance as a propraetor, on his
performance as a Consul, and on the recent measures in the Senate that
were rejected. Did you notice how many Senators used the term
"Bureaucarcy" in thier votes against the measures?

CFQ's past performance gives me no reason to expect a staff who's size
is reasonable.

L. Sicinius Drusus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17451 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Security of the Census database
Salvete quirites, et salve Druse,

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> A Basic premise of security is to trust the fewest
> people possible.

Yes, that is a basic premise of security. But if we
apply it to its logical limit, then we should have only
one Censor elected for life, and that Censor would have
to retain all access to the citizen database to himself
or herself only.

Right now both censors, and their designated assistants
have access to the entire citizen database. Additionally
all provincial governors and their designated legatae
have access to the census data for their provinces. That
works out to a minimum of 2 Censors plus 26 Governors,
assuming no Censorial assistants with access and no
legates with access.

Furthermore, we elect a new Censor to a 2-year term every
year, meaning that a number of other citizens have had
access in the past.

If the concern is limiting access to sensitive personal
citizen information -- and I agree it is important to
safeguard that information -- then I think the problem
is much larger than the putative staff of a given Censor.
Assuming there *is* a serious security concern, I'd
recommend that the Senate adopt a stated policy on
access to Census data, with some kind of background
investigation and security assessment of everyone who
currently has access and anyone who is to be given access
in the future. We could begin that background investigation
process right now in the case of the two candidates for
the office of Censor. It'll take some money that the
Senate would have to approve, but if there's a serious
concern then the Senate should address it.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17452 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
LOL,

Let's see so far this morning you have called me a "Blockhead", and a
"Curmudgeon" for opposing an Agenda that I don't think is in Nova Roma's
best intrests.

Are you taking Lessons from Scaevola?

The Personal insults directed against people who disagree with Cohors
policy in the posts of some of it's members are one of the reasons I'm
stating that some members of the Cohors engage in political intimidation

I Have seen nothing from the Senior Consul that indicates he disapproves
of tatics like yours and Scaevola's, no effort what so ever to distance
himself from you, and since he retains people like you on his staff, and
makes no effort to disapprove of your actions, it ammounts to a tacit
approval of your activites.

L. Sicinius Drusus


PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of us?
>
> Have I posted as a private citizen or as "Accensus Ordinary"?
> Have I posted that I am supporting C. Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
> or campaigned actively for him?
> Do you have confidential censorial information that shows how I have
> voted for the past year about leges that CFQ has supported?
> It is on record that I don't give a darn about points and was willing
> to work for the Republic for the honor of service alone so what is CFQ
> offering me to make me defend him?
> The only reason that we are debating in public is that you have a
> remarkably one-sided way of looking at things and you cannot provide
> documentation to support your insinuations.
> Q. Fabius Maximus is a curmudgeon by public declaration and I can
> respect that. You are a curmudgeon by action and attitude and you may
> be doing damage to your candidates' chances by your posts.
> Perhaps the question you should ask, is why are so many citizens
> willing to support an honorable and fair-spoken man and work with him
> for the improvement of the Republic without any personal or material
> gain? It is not out of politics but due to personal observation of
> his manner and how he conducts himself in his life and office.
> My NR political party IS the Republic. My NR political platform &
> agenda is to support the Constitution of the Republic. My choices for
> magistrates are based on my belief in their ability to do the job in
> an honorable & professional manner. If I am elected Rogator by the
> citizens I will serve them by obeying the leges that have been made
> concerning that office to the best of my ability. I will work with
> the proper magistrates whether I voted for them or not; whether I like
> them or not; whether I agree with them or not, even if it is you,
> Drusus, for the good of the Republic.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
> Citizen of Nova Roma First & Foremost
>
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12co4pg5e/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070385536/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
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>
>
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17453 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Mysterious fool.
My take is that it is an ex-citizen or a relatively new citizen (past year or so) that monitors the posts but does not post himself. This is obviously someone with a lot of time on thier hands. Let's ignore the crap and continue on with business. I tend to agree with Diana...we should track where this silliness is coming from.


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17454 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
The Large number of people involved in this years Census is partially a
result of the Senior Consuls Census Law.

In Antiquita the responsibility of contacting either the Censor (if the
citizen was in Roma) or the Propraetor ( If the Citizen was in a
province) lay with the Citizen. It was NOT the responsibility of the
Censor or the Propraetor to track people down. If someone wanted to
retain thier citizenship they had the responsibility of answering the
call for the Census. Shifting this responsibility away from the citizen
and to the Censor increased the number of people who would need access.
Adding the Propraetors increased this number futher.

Our modern methods of communication mean that all of our citizens are
"in Roma", and that there is no need to decrease the citizens privacy by
involving the Propraetors in the Census provided we hold a Roman style
Census where the responsibility of contacting the Censors rests with the
citizen.

The first Census law was better than nothing, but it could have been
improved by making it the responsibility of the Citizen to contact the
Censor. The Second Census law resulted in a decrease in citizens
privacy, it made matters worse instead of better.


Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

> Salvete quirites, et salve Druse,
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > A Basic premise of security is to trust the fewest
> > people possible.
>
> Yes, that is a basic premise of security. But if we
> apply it to its logical limit, then we should have only
> one Censor elected for life, and that Censor would have
> to retain all access to the citizen database to himself
> or herself only.

The US Navy didn't appoint me a Cryptology Technican for Life. They did
limit the number of people who had acess to this information at any
given time and provide for severe penalities if I discused the
information either while serving or at any future time after my access
ended.

>
>
> Right now both censors, and their designated assistants
> have access to the entire citizen database. Additionally
> all provincial governors and their designated legatae
> have access to the census data for their provinces. That
> works out to a minimum of 2 Censors plus 26 Governors,
> assuming no Censorial assistants with access and no
> legates with access.
>
> Furthermore, we elect a new Censor to a 2-year term every
> year, meaning that a number of other citizens have had
> access in the past.
>
> If the concern is limiting access to sensitive personal
> citizen information -- and I agree it is important to
> safeguard that information -- then I think the problem
> is much larger than the putative staff of a given Censor.
> Assuming there *is* a serious security concern, I'd
> recommend that the Senate adopt a stated policy on
> access to Census data, with some kind of background
> investigation and security assessment of everyone who
> currently has access and anyone who is to be given access
> in the future. We could begin that background investigation
> process right now in the case of the two candidates for
> the office of Censor. It'll take some money that the
> Senate would have to approve, but if there's a serious
> concern then the Senate should address it.
>
> Valete,
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
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>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17455 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> The Large number of people involved in this years Census is partially a
> result of the Senior Consuls Census Law.

You're sidestepping the question here Senator, apparently
because you want to get in another dig at the Senior Consul.

Provincial Governors had access to the census data for
their provinces before the current census law. Their
legatae likewise could be given this information. The
current and former Censors have always had such access.

[...]
> The US Navy didn't appoint me a Cryptology Technican for Life. They did
> limit the number of people who had acess to this information at any
> given time and provide for severe penalities if I discused the
> information either while serving or at any future time after my access
> ended.

Yeah, I have been through a similar process. If we ever
happen to be in the same place at the same time we might
exchange some annecdotes -- without divulging any classified
information, of course.

Getting back to the question of information security, how do
you think we ought to provide for the sort of penalties you
and I would both be subject to for disclosing classified
information within the context of Nova Roma? Expulsion
seems obvious, but should we also adopt a policy statement
that Nova Roma Inc. *will* take legal action against any
person found guilty of such a betrayal of trust?

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17456 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Ecastor Druse;
'ammounts' and 'activites'!. How can any civis reading a post of
yours on the Main List decide to vote for someone who seems
personally devoted to illiteracy.
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica, perhaps 'Grammatica'

it ammounts to a tacit
> approval of your activites.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
>
> > Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of
us?> >
> >
> >
> > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12co4pg5e/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=
egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070385536/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.net
flix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17457 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.

The Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and I have been indulging in a bit of discussion concerning our opinions related to the Illustrious Senior Consul C. Fabius Quintilianus, the consular cohors, CFQ's potential censorial staff (if he is elected), bloated bureaucracies, and a number of other issues. In his most recent posts, the Senator has said that I have called him a "blockhead" and "curmudgeon" because of his opposition to an agenda that is not in Nova Roma's best interests. I want to clear up this statement by saying that I never called him by these endearments because of his opposition to a political agenda. I called him a Blockhead because he insinuated that the members of a magistrate's staff (aka fellow citizens) are untrustworthy and gossipy, especially in large groups. I called him a Curmudgeon because he insinuates, implies, and makes generalized statements without backing them up with any kind of fact and he uses terms like "elitist S***head" when addressing a fellow citizen and a lady. I believe that he is also a curmudgeon because he resents it when anyone questions him to prove his statements but he regards his implications and slanders as 'efforts to tell the truth without sugar coating it...'
He also asks if I am taking lessons from Scaevola. I don't believe so but I do not recall Scaevola ever calling someone a "s***head" so I AM VERY sure that I have not taken any lessons from Senator Drusus.
He also states that my personal insults are directed against people who disagree with cohors policy are engaging in political intimidation. I never consider politics when I am insulting someone; I insult on a purely personal basis whether the insultee has been acting like a blockhead, curmudgeon, or the spavined offspring of a diseased camel and a soused gurney; the last being an example and is not directed at the Illustrious Senator Drusus, I swear by the Gods. I have asked the Senator to provide me privately with the names of any citizen who has contacted him and was intimidated enough to make them stop posting so I could offer apologies but he has not yet done so. I asked him for a single example of any member of the consular cohors acting consistently in an inappropriate manner or abusing confidential information but again he has not done so. I also wish to state for the record that I am not insulting Senator Drusus because he disagrees with the policies of the Senior Consul or the Consular Cohors; I am politely insulting the Senator because he is acting like a Blockhead and a Curmudgeon but I am not calling him a 'S***head' because he is definitely not acting like a 'S***head.
The reason why the Senior Consul has not said anything to me on the mainlist or privately is that I am not attempting to represent my opinions as those of the Senior Consul, the cohors, or any other arm of the current magistrates of Nova Roma merely as an ordinary Plebian citizen. I have noticed that the Conscript Fathers have also retained Senator Drusus in that august body and have not censored or reproved him for his many insults, insinuations, implications, or attitudes presumably because they view his opinions as those of a private citizen. However, based on the Illustrious Senator Drusus' reasoning, that amounts to the Senate's tacit approval of his activities because nothing indicates the Senate disapproves of his "tatics"[sic].
In order to cut to the chase, I will happily resign from the Consular Cohors so as not to possibly besmirch the honor of the Senior Consul and the Cohors by association, if Senator Drusus will do the same and resign from the Senate. That way neither the Senate, the Senior Consul, or the Consular Cohors will have to worry about our respective behaviors, tactics, actions, and activities.
May the Gods grant Nova Roma all that is appropriate, happy, worthy, and auspicious. Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17458 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:00, Scriboni89@... wrote:
> Salve e Ciao,
>
> Chi a parla l'italiano? Io parla un piccolo italiano. Io in del primo
> anno di liceo. Io in lezione d'italiano. Io ho 14 anni. Mia famiglia e di italia.
> Io sono visitare italia in l'estate. Ci vediamo!
Ciao,

io non parlo l'italiano, capisco spangnolo e francese.
Scrivi l'italiano, io capiro.

vale

Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17459 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Oath to Pietas - Kalends December
On this day sacred to you, Holy Piety, in stola and palla candidata I, Diana Moravia Aventina come
to take an oath.

We inherit from our Roman forebearers the right to worship them only
through faith and reverence, through service and dedication. We, the
living, adopt the dead so that through us those noble dead Quirites
may live again in the memories of men.

There is no more perfect life than a life lived in accordance with
the mos maiorum. There is no greater honour which we can confer than
a life lived according to their custom.

O, Pietas, lead me rightly that I may protect our Roman forebearers
as I protect our citizens in all things.

If the Immortal Gods favour my candidacy for the consulship, I swear
that in all things I shall make the mos maiorum my guide. And if I
do anything to violate this oath, Goddess Piety, I pray that I may
suffer great misfortune.

______________________________________________________________

In illo die sacro tibi, Sancta Pietas, venio ut ius iurandum deferam.

Tantum per fidem reverentiamque, per opera dedicationemque ius eos
venerandi ab maioribus nostris Romanis hereditate accipimus. Nos,
viventes, antecessores adoptamus ut per nos illi mortui nobiles
Quirites in memoriis hominum iterum vivant.

Est non vita integerior quam victa secundum morem maiorum. Est non
dignitas, quam conferre possumus, maior quam vita victa secundum
morem maiorum.

O, Pietas, duce me recte ut nostros antecessores Romanos servem
perinde ac nostros cives in omnibus servem.

Si Di Immortales petitionem meam in consulatum faveant, iuro in
omnibus rebus morem maiorum ducem meum facturum esse. Illaec
advorsum si quid pecasso, Dea Pietas, veneror te ut miserrima ego
esse.

-Diana Moravia Aventina
-Candidate for Consul 2757
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17460 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Salvete Quirites; et salve, candidate Quinte Fabi Maxime.

Four days ago, you posted to this list an e-mail in which you stated
that you were better qualified to hold the censorial office than your
opponent. That was message 17,190 to this mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17190

That very same day, I posted a message to this list concerning those
qualifications. I am reproducing that message below:

> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Senator Quinte Fabi Maxime.
>
> I just wanted to make you a question as a voter, based on a comment
> from a previous message of yours:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
>> I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I have
>> to get along with many nationalities, in many more languages more
>> so then any number CFQ ever had to deal with, and as a producer I
>> have negotiated many deals with foreign nationals. So in
>> international relations I am as good or better than CFQ.
>
> I didn't know that you were a poliglot, Q. Fabi! You are right that
> speaking many languages is a very desirable trait in a Nova Roma
> censor, given the fact that we are an international orgnisation and
> that our censors quite often have to deal with citizens that do not
> speak English very well.
>
> What languages do you speak, senator?
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

That was message 17,192 to this mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17192

You did not reply to that message, so, two days later, I posted
another message asking for an answer:

> Salvete Quirites, et salve, candidate Quinte Fabi Maxime.
>
> Senator Q. Fabius Maximus:
>
> Two days ago, I made a public question to you on this very same
> list regarding your qualifications to serve as a censor of Nova
> Roma:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17192
>
> I wonder if it would be possible to receive an answer. I have just
> read that you have an excellent equipment that allows you to answer
> immediately to this kind of questions and that you no longer make
> people wait for a reply, and I have seen you answering *other*
> questions on this very same list, so I wonder what might have
> happened with that question of mine.
>
> Thank you for your time and attention.
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

That was message 17,314 to this mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17314

Four days have passed since my original message, and I have still
received no reply. I can only find two explanations:

a) You have not been able to reply.
That would be quite surprising, because you *have* replied to other
posts in the last four days. Besides, one of your proclaimed
qualifications was your ability to reply to queries, thanks to your
new equipment.

b) You do not want to reply to me.
That would be quite bad, senator. If you are to become our censor,
you have to be ready to work for every citizen of Nova Roma, and not
for those you feel like working. That, to me, seems one of the most
important requisites of the office you are aspiring to, senator.

So? Which one is it?

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17461 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Ciao!!
Salve amice!
Venite a Bononia questa estate per il Rally di Nova Roma?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:00, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> > Salve e Ciao,
> >
> > Chi a parla l'italiano? Io parla un piccolo italiano. Io in
del primo
> > anno di liceo. Io in lezione d'italiano. Io ho 14 anni. Mia
famiglia e di italia.
> > Io sono visitare italia in l'estate. Ci vediamo!
> Ciao,
>
> io non parlo l'italiano, capisco spangnolo e francese.
> Scrivi l'italiano, io capiro.
>
> vale
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17462 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Hmmm ,
The ones who don't care for boorish people who correct (and miscorrect)
grammer? ;-)

Drusus


rory12001 wrote:

> Ecastor Druse;
> 'ammounts' and 'activites'!. How can any civis reading a post of
> yours on the Main List decide to vote for someone who seems
> personally devoted to illiteracy.
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica, perhaps 'Grammatica'
>
> it ammounts to a tacit
> > approval of your activites.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> >
> > PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> >
> > > Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of
> us?> >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17463 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Senator Drusus

In other words, you have no proof of malfeasance by any member of the consular cohor. You have no one to support your accusation that citizens were intimidated by members of the consular cohor to stop them from posting. You did not speak with C. Fabius Quintilianus about his plans for his censorial staff. Do you have any hard evidence about identity theft going on in NR that is in any way connected to C. Fabius Quintilianus, members of his consular cohors, or any citizen of Nova Roma that has shown support recently for CFQ?
If you ever did work for the U.S. government, Senator, was it with Joe McCarthy? Your style and his have much in common in the area of baseless accusations and sly insinuations?
You have my civil respect for your rank and previous service to the Republic, noble sir. I fear that you will never be able to sway me with logic or rhetoric. Vale.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17464 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Salve,

Being a Propraetor, I feel it is important to have the contact info of the citizens in my provincia.
When I first became propraetor, I had no way of contacting anyone in Lacus Magni other than through the main list and the provincial list, which reached less than half of the total population of my provincia.
The census has helped me contact and organize some get togethers and I soon, with this info, I will be contacting citizens for quarterly meetings. This is very helpful in building Nova Roma in the "real" world and not just the virtual world, which is the point. If the senate cannot trust the propraetors it has voted to install, then something is wrong with this system.

I have taken an oath to uphold the values of Nova Roma and if anyone feels the need to investigate me to make sure I will not run off with the contact info I have obtained, so be it, but I have not yet been able to sell the info to anyone. No one is interested...perhaps my asking price is too high...

MBA

<drusus@...> wrote:
The Large number of people involved in this years Census is partially a
result of the Senior Consuls Census Law.

In Antiquita the responsibility of contacting either the Censor (if the
citizen was in Roma) or the Propraetor ( If the Citizen was in a
province) lay with the Citizen. It was NOT the responsibility of the
Censor or the Propraetor to track people down. If someone wanted to
retain thier citizenship they had the responsibility of answering the
call for the Census. Shifting this responsibility away from the citizen
and to the Censor increased the number of people who would need access.
Adding the Propraetors increased this number futher.

Our modern methods of communication mean that all of our citizens are
"in Roma", and that there is no need to decrease the citizens privacy by
involving the Propraetors in the Census provided we hold a Roman style
Census where the responsibility of contacting the Censors rests with the
citizen.

The first Census law was better than nothing, but it could have been
improved by making it the responsibility of the Citizen to contact the
Censor. The Second Census law resulted in a decrease in citizens
privacy, it made matters worse instead of better.


Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

> Salvete quirites, et salve Druse,
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > A Basic premise of security is to trust the fewest
> > people possible.
>
> Yes, that is a basic premise of security. But if we
> apply it to its logical limit, then we should have only
> one Censor elected for life, and that Censor would have
> to retain all access to the citizen database to himself
> or herself only.

The US Navy didn't appoint me a Cryptology Technican for Life. They did
limit the number of people who had acess to this information at any
given time and provide for severe penalities if I discused the
information either while serving or at any future time after my access
ended.

>
>
> Right now both censors, and their designated assistants
> have access to the entire citizen database. Additionally
> all provincial governors and their designated legatae
> have access to the census data for their provinces. That
> works out to a minimum of 2 Censors plus 26 Governors,
> assuming no Censorial assistants with access and no
> legates with access.
>
> Furthermore, we elect a new Censor to a 2-year term every
> year, meaning that a number of other citizens have had
> access in the past.
>
> If the concern is limiting access to sensitive personal
> citizen information -- and I agree it is important to
> safeguard that information -- then I think the problem
> is much larger than the putative staff of a given Censor.
> Assuming there *is* a serious security concern, I'd
> recommend that the Senate adopt a stated policy on
> access to Census data, with some kind of background
> investigation and security assessment of everyone who
> currently has access and anyone who is to be given access
> in the future. We could begin that background investigation
> process right now in the case of the two candidates for
> the office of Censor. It'll take some money that the
> Senate would have to approve, but if there's a serious
> concern then the Senate should address it.
>
> Valete,
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul


---------------------------------
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17465 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
> Salve cives;
as an international civis who is a polyglot & a voter I too wish
to know all these languages that Q. Fabius Maxiumus speaks.
Enlighten us....
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> >
> > <<snipped>>
> >
> >> I have better internet access than CFQ, and as a Historian I
have
> >> to get along with many nationalities, in many more languages
more
> >> so then any number CFQ ever had to deal with, and as a producer
I
> >
> > What languages do you speak, senator?
> >
> > S.V.B.E.E.V.
> > CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
>
> That was message 17,192 to this mailing list:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17192
>
> You did not reply to that message, so, two days later, I posted
> another message asking for an answer:
>
> > Salvete Quirites, et salve, candidate Quinte Fabi Maxime.
> >
> > Senator Q. Fabius Maximus:
> >
> > Two > >
> > S.V.B.E.E.V.
> > CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
>
> That was message 17,314 to this mailing list:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17314
>
> Four days have passed since my original message, and I have still
> received no reply. I can only find two explanations:
>
> a) You have not been able to reply.
> That would be quite surprising, because you *have* replied to other
> posts in the last four days. Besides, one of your proclaimed
> qualifications was your ability to reply to queries, thanks to your
> new equipment.
>
> b) You do not want to reply to me.
> That would be quite bad, senator. If you are to become our censor,
> you have to be ready to work for every citizen of Nova Roma, and
not
> for those you feel like working. That, to me, seems one of the most
> important requisites of the office you are aspiring to, senator.
>
> So? Which one is it?
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17466 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
Quirites,

Are you as tired of the Consular Cohorts tatics of personal insults as
I am?

I Readly admit I can return nastiness for nasriness to people like those
who support the Cohors agenda, but don't forget it is the Senior Consuls
minions who allways START the insults, the name calling, the low
politics when anyone dares to disagree with thier policies.

Remember what kind of people who support the Consular Cohors, and the
Senior Consuls continued employment of these people, his refusal to
distance himself from them, to disapprove of his supporters tatics.

Remenber one reason I'm being subjected to these attacks, for daring to
point out that the Senior Consuls past performance is NOT consistant
with protecting your privacy.

Do You want a Nova Roma where daring to question the policies of your
government results in you undergoing the kind of personal attacks you
have seen unleashed on me? Are these the kind of people you want
leading Nova Roma? People who will insult and abuse you if you don't
agree with thier policies?

Remember Citizens, I have called for less politics, For a very modest
number of political changes in the comming year, so that we can
concetrate on the reasons that most of us joined Nova Roma, to celebrate
Romanitas. To spread the knowledge of Roman Culture and the Religio.
That is a threat to those who care for little but playing political
games, that is why they are trying to defeat me at all costs, because I
want Nova Roma to do the things that you joined it for instead of being
thier political toy.

L. Sicinius Drusus


PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
>
> The Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and I have been indulging
> in a bit of discussion concerning our opinions related to the
> Illustrious Senior Consul C. Fabius Quintilianus, the consular cohors,
> CFQ's potential censorial staff (if he is elected), bloated
> bureaucracies, and a number of other issues. In his most recent
> posts, the Senator has said that I have called him a "blockhead" and
> "curmudgeon" because of his opposition to an agenda that is not in
> Nova Roma's best interests. I want to clear up this statement by
> saying that I never called him by these endearments because of his
> opposition to a political agenda. I called him a Blockhead because he
> insinuated that the members of a magistrate's staff (aka fellow
> citizens) are untrustworthy and gossipy, especially in large groups.
> I called him a Curmudgeon because he insinuates, implies, and makes
> generalized statements without backing them up with any kind of fact
> and he uses terms like "elitist S***head" when addressing a fellow
> citizen and a lady. I believe that he is also a curmudgeon because he
> resents it when anyone questions him to prove his statements but he
> regards his implications and slanders as 'efforts to tell the truth
> without sugar coating it...'
> He also asks if I am taking lessons from Scaevola. I don't believe so
> but I do not recall Scaevola ever calling someone a "s***head" so I AM
> VERY sure that I have not taken any lessons from Senator Drusus.
> He also states that my personal insults are directed against people
> who disagree with cohors policy are engaging in political
> intimidation. I never consider politics when I am insulting someone;
> I insult on a purely personal basis whether the insultee has been
> acting like a blockhead, curmudgeon, or the spavined offspring of a
> diseased camel and a soused gurney; the last being an example and is
> not directed at the Illustrious Senator Drusus, I swear by the Gods.
> I have asked the Senator to provide me privately with the names of any
> citizen who has contacted him and was intimidated enough to make them
> stop posting so I could offer apologies but he has not yet done so. I
> asked him for a single example of any member of the consular cohors
> acting consistently in an inappropriate manner or abusing confidential
> information but again he has not done so. I also wish to state for
> the record that I am not insulting Senator Drusus because he disagrees
> with the policies of the Senior Consul or the Consular Cohors; I am
> politely insulting the Senator because he is acting like a Blockhead
> and a Curmudgeon but I am not calling him a 'S***head' because he is
> definitely not acting like a 'S***head.
> The reason why the Senior Consul has not said anything to me on the
> mainlist or privately is that I am not attempting to represent my
> opinions as those of the Senior Consul, the cohors, or any other arm
> of the current magistrates of Nova Roma merely as an ordinary Plebian
> citizen. I have noticed that the Conscript Fathers have also retained
> Senator Drusus in that august body and have not censored or reproved
> him for his many insults, insinuations, implications, or attitudes
> presumably because they view his opinions as those of a private
> citizen. However, based on the Illustrious Senator Drusus' reasoning,
> that amounts to the Senate's tacit approval of his activities because
> nothing indicates the Senate disapproves of his "tatics"[sic].
> In order to cut to the chase, I will happily resign from the Consular
> Cohors so as not to possibly besmirch the honor of the Senior Consul
> and the Cohors by association, if Senator Drusus will do the same and
> resign from the Senate. That way neither the Senate, the Senior
> Consul, or the Consular Cohors will have to worry about our respective
> behaviors, tactics, actions, and activities.
> May the Gods grant Nova Roma all that is appropriate, happy, worthy,
> and auspicious. Valete.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17467 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
There is an ongoing debate outside of Nova Roma regarding the shrinking
privacy of people, from private organizations and from thier governments.

In Nova Roma this comes down to should our policies be set up for the
convinence of our governmental officals or for the protection of our
citizens privacy. I favor the later. Personal information should remain
in the Censors office unless the citizen authorizes release of that
information to other officials.

L. Sicinius Drusus


Centurion M Bianchius Antonius wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Being a Propraetor, I feel it is important to have the contact info of
> the citizens in my provincia.
> When I first became propraetor, I had no way of contacting anyone in
> Lacus Magni other than through the main list and the provincial list,
> which reached less than half of the total population of my provincia.
> The census has helped me contact and organize some get togethers and
> I soon, with this info, I will be contacting citizens for quarterly
> meetings. This is very helpful in building Nova Roma in the "real"
> world and not just the virtual world, which is the point. If the
> senate cannot trust the propraetors it has voted to install, then
> something is wrong with this system.
>
> I have taken an oath to uphold the values of Nova Roma and if anyone
> feels the need to investigate me to make sure I will not run off with
> the contact info I have obtained, so be it, but I have not yet been
> able to sell the info to anyone. No one is interested...perhaps my
> asking price is too high...
>
> MBA
>
> <drusus@...> wrote:
> The Large number of people involved in this years Census is partially a
> result of the Senior Consuls Census Law.
>
> In Antiquita the responsibility of contacting either the Censor (if the
> citizen was in Roma) or the Propraetor ( If the Citizen was in a
> province) lay with the Citizen. It was NOT the responsibility of the
> Censor or the Propraetor to track people down. If someone wanted to
> retain thier citizenship they had the responsibility of answering the
> call for the Census. Shifting this responsibility away from the citizen
> and to the Censor increased the number of people who would need access.
> Adding the Propraetors increased this number futher.
>
> Our modern methods of communication mean that all of our citizens are
> "in Roma", and that there is no need to decrease the citizens privacy by
> involving the Propraetors in the Census provided we hold a Roman style
> Census where the responsibility of contacting the Censors rests with the
> citizen.
>
> The first Census law was better than nothing, but it could have been
> improved by making it the responsibility of the Citizen to contact the
> Censor. The Second Census law resulted in a decrease in citizens
> privacy, it made matters worse instead of better.
>
>
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:
>
> > Salvete quirites, et salve Druse,
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >
> > > A Basic premise of security is to trust the fewest
> > > people possible.
> >
> > Yes, that is a basic premise of security. But if we
> > apply it to its logical limit, then we should have only
> > one Censor elected for life, and that Censor would have
> > to retain all access to the citizen database to himself
> > or herself only.
>
> The US Navy didn't appoint me a Cryptology Technican for Life. They did
> limit the number of people who had acess to this information at any
> given time and provide for severe penalities if I discused the
> information either while serving or at any future time after my access
> ended.
>
> >
> >
> > Right now both censors, and their designated assistants
> > have access to the entire citizen database. Additionally
> > all provincial governors and their designated legatae
> > have access to the census data for their provinces. That
> > works out to a minimum of 2 Censors plus 26 Governors,
> > assuming no Censorial assistants with access and no
> > legates with access.
> >
> > Furthermore, we elect a new Censor to a 2-year term every
> > year, meaning that a number of other citizens have had
> > access in the past.
> >
> > If the concern is limiting access to sensitive personal
> > citizen information -- and I agree it is important to
> > safeguard that information -- then I think the problem
> > is much larger than the putative staff of a given Censor.
> > Assuming there *is* a serious security concern, I'd
> > recommend that the Senate adopt a stated policy on
> > access to Census data, with some kind of background
> > investigation and security assessment of everyone who
> > currently has access and anyone who is to be given access
> > in the future. We could begin that background investigation
> > process right now in the case of the two candidates for
> > the office of Censor. It'll take some money that the
> > Senate would have to approve, but if there's a serious
> > concern then the Senate should address it.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > --
> > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> > Candidate for Consul
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17468 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Civility, Campaigning , Candidates and Endorsements
Salve Romans

In a short time we will start to vote on who will lead our Res Publica for the next year. I ask in all humility that we try and remember to hold true to the virtues that we hold dear ,like

Concordia , Dignitas, Honestas, Nobilitas, Pietas , Prudentia, Salubritas.

That we remember that regardless of who is elected and who isn't we need EVERYONE of our 1000+/- citizens to see our dream fulfilled. Our goal is nothing less that a re-establishment of the Ancient Republic in modern time, but we do not have to behave as the Romans of the last century of the Republic did. They helped bring about her downfall.

We can be better Romans than that.

With 2000+ years of history after the first Rome fell, and the lessons of history before us, we her heirs must at least try to do a little better.

I would like to suggest the following for the time that remains for campaigning.

We should set aside a day or two for any and all citizens to come to our forum and endorse any and all candidates that they like. These would be endorsements in favor of a candidate and why they should be elected.

Voters want to hear what you are for, not what you are against. Give me a reason to vote FOR your candidate and NOT a reason to vote AGAINST your candidates opponent or voters might simply stay home and not vote at all.

That the candidates take the lead in answering questions put to them by the voters and that
" staff members" should refrain from answering posts addressed to the candidates.

(remember I have the second largest staff of any magistrate outside of the senior Consul)

That all questions from this point on will be addressed to ALL the candidates running for a certain office and not just one or two.

If you want to know when candidate Claudius/Claudia stopped beating their spouse then you need to ask it of all the candidates (VBG)

If you are a candidate or a citizen I ask that you keep your comments civil and in accordance with the BEST the Romans had to offer

Pax

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune of the Plebs



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17469 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Answers of Arminius Faustus
Salvete omnes

First of all, it comes a bit late, so apologize for it. :-)

Salvete, Gemine, optime amice, god-like tribune,

I was wondering, by Iove, how to answer such a question on the better
way to answer to dearest Geminius, friend and giant on the
Tribuneship.


LDGS: Too much flatter for me, good Arminius. I think you answered me pretty well indeed. :-)


The fine post of Marinus has made me thinking on a Seneca saying that
I think I´ve been applying all my life with success. It is on ´De
Tranquilitate animi´ essay.

I don´t have exactly the words here, but he says the best thing to
spent your time is training your profession, and he cites the singer
and his voice, the gymnasta and his body, and the magistrate and his
virtue.

I have been applying this on life. A year and a half ago I´ve started
my career as ´factory-floor´ process engineer (I speak too few about
my personal life, let´s open the gates of the heart) on a very fine
hydrometalurgical non-ferrous plant of São Paulo. Blessed by queen
Minerva, patroness of the engineers (and logo of 99% of the
engineering colleges and labor counsels) I had the responsibility of
taking care of projects, testworks, processes and employees safety.

When I wondered ´what is the best think to a process engineer spend
his time?´ I´ve applied Seneca: ´Knowing the process as no one had
before. I´m paid to know how this factory works, its chemistry, its
complexities, its operations. I must apply to this with all my
forces´

And I´ve applied to this. Now, I can say have the honor and
recognization to be one of the youngest but already a ´reference´on
the process. For me its a honor saying now as Eliu said to Job: ´I´m
one of the younger, but I do take seat between the elders of the
city´ . Professionaly, I´m delighted. (Not that everything is only
happyness... I still fight for some $ raises $... eheheh)


LDGS: This is, indeed, one of the most beautiful things I have heard. And it contains such a intelligent policy of every-day that I'd sign up right now. You have the will, the wish and the background. That makes me happy. :-)

But this is ex-Nova Roma. And how applying this to the Tribuneship?


LDGS: Good question!

What is the best thing a Tribune of the Plebis can apply his efforts?

To the Plebis... all times work on their interest. And the interest
of a stronger Plebis is the interest of all Nova Roma.


LDGS: I agree quite much such statement of general policy. :-)

When I talk ´stronger´ plebis, I don´t mean CP or rivalty. I mean
even wiser ways of regulate itself. It shall be easy, because next
year the tribunes will be on the neck of a pretty good tribunitian
work this year.


LDGS: Once more, I'm flattered as much as my colleagues will be. :-)

My experience as plebeian magistrate this year made on my mind very
clear these necessities. Also, the hard work on quaestorship,
interpreter and scriba as also open my view. Besides Plebis be the
main concern, I would be a foul and inutile to the Res Publica if I
would limit myself to only one duty.


LDGS: I applaud that. A very good friend of mine told me that "is not the office, but what you DO in the office". :-)

I have ideas of some legislations for next year on the matters:

a. Linguis Publicis
b. Translations production
c. Matters of magistrates and foruns of Plebean Ordo
d. Atributions of the Plebeian Aedilship, that IS NOT A LESSER
magistracy, like I´ve been hearding. (See T. Livius, D. Cassius and
Plutarch)
e. Corrections on the scope of works of the Aediles to better fit on
the Ancient way (you know all, I´ve exposed on my speeches contra Lex
Fabia Centuriata.)
f. Internatinalization of Nova Roma, legal status of the Provinces


LDGS: Well, I agree with you that this are some matters that are quite important for all of us. But as I told another candidate, Internationalization of NR should be a major problem, as far as it would involve all magistracys. I'm gald to see that many candidates seeks that for the next year. :-)

However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we can
work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been talking
to many, and there problably will be a forum between many different
magistrates to write a final text.


LDGS: Once more I applaud that courageus way of acting, and the real sensible ideas you have. However, all offices are somehow with closed duties, so I would ask, not only to you, but now for all, which is the best way to cooperate?

It is realism. To approve a change, you need a big coalization of
forces, bringing many views to the initial questions.

Alas, there is other aspect of the Ancient Tribunes, very clear when
you read Livius. The Tribune must annoy. What? The Tribune must not
worry on ´popularity´ or ´fitness´. The Tribune is the inquiritor,
the questioner, the guy ´against the entablishment´, the vigile of
Libertas. The others magistrates must have pretty clear the Tribunes
will be vigilant, as their constitutional duties. This vigilance is
good for the Res Publica, although very boring personally.


LDGS: Amice, this is a view that fix exactly on what I tried to do. I feel happy to see someone else share such view. :-)

And the main problem of NR? Spreading itself. For example, the
situation on Latin America is becoming critical, with negative
growing. I bring this, although local problem, because I´m the only
latin (how sweet is this word for me, latin, which origins were on
the Latium!) latin candidate to Tribuneship. And it has a deep
conection with ´linguis publicis´ I´ve cited above. But it is a deep
discussion for more people later.


LDGS: Good then. I hope you'll rise the proper debate about.

The muse fails me now. I´ve talked to much. Because talking too much
is making lots of promises. And the worst thing is coming next year
and the promises.... well, I will not be the best neither the worst
Tribune of NR ever. I´ll do the small daily ant work, as my
possibilities and limitations.

But you can know some of my ideas here, and what expect of me.

I now raise the hands to Ceres Mother. As she shined to me all these
years, may she continues shining on next magistratures.

LDGS: I join your pray.

Abstract and Quick Checklist:

a. What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
between each others?

Make Plebis stronger.

b. What would be your goals on that field?

Propose laws with other magistrates to fullfil these desires.

c. What are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?

Spreading of Nova Roma. There are some provinces with problems of
negative growing.

LDGS: Good summarize. Only I would ask you is what specific proposals will you make, although your declaration on general policy is quite clear. All in all, I fully support your views and ideas for Tribuneship.

I would like to thank you for the answers, that I left behind because I was agree with you. Now I say, how I wish all candidates would be like you or the others who answered! :-)

Citizens, I say I fully support this candidate. I see many debates in future for the good of Nova Roma with him in Tribuneship.


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17470 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Boorish? How can I be boorish when I am trying to uphold the strict
standard that you called for in regard to Franciscus Aupulus in
post#17334
" A magistrate requires a greater competancy {sic} in the
official language of Nova Roma than the average citizen does..."
Are you exempt from your own standards? Are you a hypocrite? Is it
easier to remark the faults of others than correct your own?
So who is left to vote for you?

vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Hmmm ,
> The ones who don't care for boorish people who correct (and
miscorrect)
> grammer? ;-)
>
> Drusus
>
>
> rory12001 wrote:
>
> > Ecastor Druse;
> > 'ammounts' and 'activites'!. How can any civis reading a post
of
> > yours on the Main List decide to vote for someone who seems
> > personally devoted to illiteracy.
> > vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica, perhaps 'Grammatica'
> >
> > it ammounts to a tacit
> > > approval of your activites.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > >
> > >
> > > PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest
of
> > us?> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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> > flix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
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> > Service
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> > >
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> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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flix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116719>
> >
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17471 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > The Large number of people involved in this years Census is partially a
> > result of the Senior Consuls Census Law.
>
> You're sidestepping the question here Senator, apparently
> because you want to get in another dig at the Senior Consul.
>
> Provincial Governors had access to the census data for
> their provinces before the current census law. Their
> legatae likewise could be given this information. The
> current and former Censors have always had such access.

The Senior Consuls law resulted in additional legates being appointed to
handle the Census, increasing the number of people who had access. I'm
not aware of former Censors having access to the database, but if any do
I publicly call on the current Censors to remove this access at the
earliest possible time.

>
>
> [...]
> > The US Navy didn't appoint me a Cryptology Technican for Life. They did
> > limit the number of people who had acess to this information at any
> > given time and provide for severe penalities if I discused the
> > information either while serving or at any future time after my access
> > ended.
>
> Yeah, I have been through a similar process. If we ever
> happen to be in the same place at the same time we might
> exchange some annecdotes -- without divulging any classified
> information, of course.
>
> Getting back to the question of information security, how do
> you think we ought to provide for the sort of penalties you
> and I would both be subject to for disclosing classified
> information within the context of Nova Roma? Expulsion
> seems obvious, but should we also adopt a policy statement
> that Nova Roma Inc. *will* take legal action against any
> person found guilty of such a betrayal of trust?

First there have to be strict limits on the number of people who have
access to the database, this should be limited to the Censors themselves
and the smallest possible number of Censorial scribes. I Haven't seen
our population growing by a thousand citizens a year, but even if it
were that high it would only represent about 3 aplications for
citizenship a day, hardly a massive workload for the two Censors. If the
Censors need more than a Scribe each to handle 3 aplications per day I'm
open to hearing an explanation of why they need more.

Second personal information should only leave the Censors office if the
citizen or prospective citizen has authorized it's release. This
includes contact information to Propraetors, a citizens desire not to be
contacted by a Propraetor is more important than a Propraetor or any one
else's need to contact a citizen. Personal information on Minors should
NEVER leave the Censors office except to that persons legal gaurdian as
per national laws.

I Would support banishment for releasing confidental information, along
with turning the person over to National authorities for prosucution if
that release of information violated any national laws regarding privacy
or the information of Minors. Civil action in the national courts of the
offender should also be an option open to the Senate in cases regarding
the privacy of citizens

L. Sicinius Drusus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17472 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
Most people consider publicly correcting spelling and grammer errors on
a mailing list to be rude and boorish. If the shoe fits wear it.

No one has called for perfect English. It has been sugested that a
person who's lack of English skills causes misunderstandings shouldn't
hold an office where they will have to communicate in English. We have
some who prefer Political Correctness to common sense, but I'm not one
of them.

L. Sicinius Drusus


rory12001 wrote:

> Boorish? How can I be boorish when I am trying to uphold the strict
> standard that you called for in regard to Franciscus Aupulus in
> post#17334
> " A magistrate requires a greater competancy {sic} in the
> official language of Nova Roma than the average citizen does..."
> Are you exempt from your own standards? Are you a hypocrite? Is it
> easier to remark the faults of others than correct your own?
> So who is left to vote for you?
>
> vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Hmmm ,
> > The ones who don't care for boorish people who correct (and
> miscorrect)
> > grammer? ;-)
> >
> > Drusus
> >
> >
> > rory12001 wrote:
> >
> > > Ecastor Druse;
> > > 'ammounts' and 'activites'!. How can any civis reading a post
> of
> > > yours on the Main List decide to vote for someone who seems
> > > personally devoted to illiteracy.
> > > vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica, perhaps 'Grammatica'
> > >
> > > it ammounts to a tacit
> > > > approval of your activites.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest
> of
> > > us?> >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > > > >
> > >
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12co4pg5e/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=
> > >
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> > > flix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service
> > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
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> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17473 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor!!!
AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

Let me express my full support to Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
for his candidacy to the office of Censor!

I can say I know this man rather well, at least as to his Novaroman
side! ;-)

I met him twice during the last two years (and I look forward to
meet him again in the future!). In addition I worked with him during
this year in his consular staff. Believe me, only a few people are
as dedicated to our Republic as he is!

The office of Censor is a very hard one, and I am sure Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus is the right Roman citizen to fill it!

OPTIME VALETE OMNES
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Accensvs
Legatvs Provinciae Italiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17474 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Your insulting posts are an attempt to intimidate me, every time you
make a post you are proving my case that members of the Cohors attempt
to intimidate those who disagree with them.

You are making repeated attempts to twist my words to insert things I
have never said into my mouth.

I Have stated that the Senior Consul has appointed staffs that are far
larger than any one else doing the same task has, That statement is true.

I Have stated that this practice is NOT consistant with basic premises
of security in dealing with confidental information. That statement is true.

I Have stated that members of the Senior Consuls staff have attempted to
intimidate those who disagree with them. You are proving that statement
to be true every time you post.

I Have stated that members of the Senior Consuls staff have used
insulting terms towards those who disagree with them. You are proving
that statement is true with your posts today.

I Have stated that the Senior Consul has never removed anyone from his
staff for making personal attacks against people who disagree with
Cohors policy. That statement is true.

I Have stated that the Senior Consul has never issused a public
statement disavowing the tatics that you are using to attack me. That
statement is true.

L. Sicinius Drusus

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Senator Drusus
>
> In other words, you have no proof of malfeasance by any member of the
> consular cohor. You have no one to support your accusation that
> citizens were intimidated by members of the consular cohor to stop
> them from posting. You did not speak with C. Fabius Quintilianus
> about his plans for his censorial staff. Do you have any hard
> evidence about identity theft going on in NR that is in any way
> connected to C. Fabius Quintilianus, members of his consular cohors,
> or any citizen of Nova Roma that has shown support recently for CFQ?
> If you ever did work for the U.S. government, Senator, was it with Joe
> McCarthy? Your style and his have much in common in the area of
> baseless accusations and sly insinuations?
> You have my civil respect for your rank and previous service to the
> Republic, noble sir. I fear that you will never be able to sway me
> with logic or rhetoric. Vale.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17475 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Next Consuls: my support
AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

It is with much pleasure that I saw the candidacy of two of the best
citizens I ever knew in Nova Roma to the office of Consul!

Citizens of Nova Roma, I invite all of you to give your vote to
Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus!

I knew Gnaeus Salix Astur when I joined Nova Roma, that is about
three years ago. At that time in Italy we had to face the difficult
task to "build" Provincia Italia, and he helped us as nobody else
could do! Then I had the opportunity to know him better in other
fields of our Republic too. As all of you know his has been one of
the best Tribunes our Annales can show us, and his Praetorship has
not been less precious!

Vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur!

During this year I worked closely with Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, an
indefatigable man which demonstrated to know how to deal with things
and people! Most importantly, he has a sense of duty. He is that
kind of person which *does* things instead of just chatting, believe
me! I know for sure he will make an excellent Consul. He deserves
our votes! ;-)

Vote for Gnaeus Equitius Marinus!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Accensvs
Legatvs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17476 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Are you as tired of the Consular Cohorts tatics of personal insults as
> I am?
>
> I Readly admit I can return nastiness for nasriness to people like those
> who support the Cohors agenda, but don't forget it is the Senior Consuls
> minions who allways START the insults, the name calling, the low
> politics when anyone dares to disagree with thier policies.

Really, Sicinius, just how stupid do you think the people of Nova Roma
are? Do you expect them to believe that?

When Caeso Fabius declared his candidacy just last week:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17148

you posted in the very next message, twelve minutes later:

> That is just what we need!
> A Censor with a well known habit of apointing Bloated Staffs.
> I Guess we can look forward to having two dozen Scribes with access to
> everyone's personal records.

So just who started the "nastiness" in that thread?

> Remenber one reason I'm being subjected to these attacks, for daring to
> point out that the Senior Consuls past performance is NOT consistant
> with protecting your privacy.

You're subject to attacks because you're a jerk. Nothing more.

> Do You want a Nova Roma where daring to question the policies of your
> government results in you undergoing the kind of personal attacks you
> have seen unleashed on me? Are these the kind of people you want
> leading Nova Roma? People who will insult and abuse you if you don't
> agree with thier policies?

Are you the kind of person that anyone should want for Tribune? Someone
who attacks at the slightest provocation, who has no manners and no
restraint?

> Remember Citizens, I have called for less politics,

Remove the beam in your own eye first.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17477 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Digest No 966 Curmudgeons of the world unite!
Salvete, Quirites

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:47:05 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!

L Equitius: I'd be honored to be counted among them, if you please.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:00:38 -0500
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
> Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> > Dear Drusus,
> >
> >
> > You have been beating this skeletal equine for a year now and all you
> > succeeded in doing was making everyone aware of how big a grump you
> > can be.
>
> Not Quite, the first half of the year I made 1 public comment regarding
> the size of the staff. When others were making comments on it I stated
> that anyone who had observed how the Senior Consul ran his province
> shouldn't be surprised about him appointing a large staff.
>
> > If a magistrate wants to have a big staff, that is the business of the
> > elected magistrate.
>
> That is a point I made in my first post on thr staff. Privately I though
> the absurd size of the staff and that organizational chart was
> hilarious, and still hold that view.
>
> > I can assure you that as a member of the consular cohort, I was never
> > privy to confidential information about any other citizen nor was I
> > some sort of automaton who would violate a trust to serve the public
> > good at the command of a magistrate.
>
> When the Consul started promulgating Leges and I saw that huge staff
> serving as political pointmen overwhealming any poster that questioned
> it's policies with a flood of replies. Some people find getting 15 to 20
> replies to thier every post intimidating. That is when I became
> concerned about the chilling implications on freedom of speach. Either
> by accident or design the Cohors was making people reluctant to post,
> and that is a situation that needs to be pointed out.
>
> >
> > Furthermore, your post comes perilously close to implying that members
> > of a magistrate's staff are untrustworthy and would use confidential
> > information in an inappropriate manner.
>
> My post points out that the larger the number of people who have access
> to confidental information the greater the likelyhood that it will leak.
> That is a basic premise of security. You limit the number of people who
> have access to the lowest possible number in order to limit the
> possibility that information will leak.
>
> > Your post also suggests that CFQ would share confidential information
> > with everyone who serves on his staff regardless of what might be
> > appropriate.
>
> Since the Censors primary job is dealing with confidental information
> about citizens any staff member who did NOT have access wouldn't be able
> to provide any assistance to the Censor and would be providing no
> services to the Res Publica in return for the title and Century points
> he was recieving.
>
> >
> > If this is not the case, I apologize for my response. However, if you
> > are making these implications, then you are (in my opinion, noble sir)
> > a blockhead!
>
>
> I Have held security clearances from the US government regarding
> Cryptology and Nuclear Weapons, so I think I know a bit about security
> procedures. It violates one of the basic premises of security to have a
> large staff with acess to sensitive information. If someone dosen't have
> access to information they can't dilvulge it.
>
> CFQ has a long history of appointing far more people to his staff than
> anyone else has ever needed to do the job. When the job he is seeking
> involves the private information of citizens his inability to function
> without a byzanthian staff is a matter of concern that the voters need
> to keep in mind.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

L Equitius: As a former Censor I'm Greatly concerned over this issue.
While I was Censor I had 1 (one) scriba and that was Marcus Octavius
Germanicus who developed that data system that was, and is used, and who
took my place. Censor is a damanding job and I feel that the Censor should
do the work themselves. I worked with my colleague and together we did the
work which was greatly assisted by the technical knowledge and trustworthy
labors of M Octavius and M Arminius, not a tribe of Beneficarius, Asscensus,
etc. etc.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:05:17 -0500
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Quirites,
> Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors serving as political
> point men for the Senior Consul.
>
> Is this the reason that CFQ appoints so many people to his staff?
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> > Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:25:44 -0500
> From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Salve Senator Drusus, et salvete quirites,
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > Quirites,
> > Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors
> > serving as political point men for the Senior Consul.
>
> You're conflating two things here Senator. The fact that
> people post things supportive of Consul Quintillianus
> means only that they are supportive of him. Many of these
> same people were posting in support of him last year before
> he was Consul, and before they were on his Consular staff.
>
> I can assure you that there's no back-channel planning
> or coordination of posts by people on the Consul's staff.
> If anybody suggested such a thing I'd personally squash
> it, as it would be wrong.
>
> So when you see Cordus post something, and Galerius post
> something, and Scaevola post something, it's not happening
> because of an orchestrated "tag team" effort. It's because
> those people all have perhaps similar thoughts on a matter,
> and they're all of them inclined to speak up when they
> have something to say.
>
> I suppose it's possible that there's some sort of nefarious
> business going on that I just didn't get invited to be a
> part of, but I sincerely doubt it.
>
> (And to answer a question you haven't yet asked, no, I
> have no intention of having anywhere near as large a
> consular staff for myself.)
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

L Equitius: To me this response to a response simply proves the point that
there is a group of Quintilianus supporters who defend his interests with a
tag team of smothering posts, while the "good guy" stays "above it all", or
when he does post it is some mundane platitude.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:56:52 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
>
> Dear Drusus:
>
> We are not talking about U.S. Cryptology or Nuclear security measures.
[Dilvulge? Is that a crytographical term? Vulgar Pickle] We are talking
about NR, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, personal honor, and professional
behavior--so stick to the subject.
<SNIP>
> I await your answers (as do many citizens) with baited breath.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus


L Equitius: I for one would like to know why anyone would need the LARGE
staff that Quintilianus feels he much have.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:18:50 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
>
> Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of us?

L Equitius: Damn right I am...

Several people have made issue over the staff size that has been a trademark
of CF Quintilianus.
One would think that he would address these issues HIMSELF.

While Q Fabius Maxiamus has addressed the Forum numerous times ANSWERING his
critiques, his filius has been conspicuously silent.

Nevermind that he chooses to oppose his Paterfamilias.
What caused this situation? O Tempora, O Mores

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17478 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D.
So I guess I can add "Jerk" To the long list of attack terms that have
been aimed at me for daring to suggest that a citizens personal privacy
is more important than some people's quest for power.

These people will do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING in thier desire to attain or
keep power.

Quirites,
Is this why you joined Nova Roma?

Are you here for this never ending stream of personal attacks directed
against anyone who dares to have a different view of Nova Roma than this
group that is determined to control every office and who don't care who
they destroy in persuit of those offices?

Is the political agenda of the Senior Consul and his allies a subject
that is beyond discussion? A matter for hurling insults and personal
attacks against any who dare to suggest that his policies might not be
in the best intrests of Nova Roma?

If You disagree with the government of Nova Roma do you want to be
subjected to the same kinds of personal attacks you see these people
directing at me?

Do you see what they are doing? They can't win a debate over the fact
that the best way to protect your privacy is to limit the number of
people that have access to your personal information, So they try to
attack me over and over to divert your attention away from protecting
your privacy.

L. Sicinius Drusus


Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > Are you as tired of the Consular Cohorts tatics of personal insults as
> > I am?
> >
> > I Readly admit I can return nastiness for nasriness to people like those
> > who support the Cohors agenda, but don't forget it is the Senior Consuls
> > minions who allways START the insults, the name calling, the low
> > politics when anyone dares to disagree with thier policies.
>
> Really, Sicinius, just how stupid do you think the people of Nova Roma
> are? Do you expect them to believe that?
>
> When Caeso Fabius declared his candidacy just last week:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17148
>
> you posted in the very next message, twelve minutes later:
>
> > That is just what we need!
> > A Censor with a well known habit of apointing Bloated Staffs.
> > I Guess we can look forward to having two dozen Scribes with
> access to
> > everyone's personal records.
>
> So just who started the "nastiness" in that thread?
>
> > Remenber one reason I'm being subjected to these attacks, for daring to
> > point out that the Senior Consuls past performance is NOT consistant
> > with protecting your privacy.
>
> You're subject to attacks because you're a jerk. Nothing more.
>
> > Do You want a Nova Roma where daring to question the policies of your
> > government results in you undergoing the kind of personal attacks you
> > have seen unleashed on me? Are these the kind of people you want
> > leading Nova Roma? People who will insult and abuse you if you don't
> > agree with thier policies?
>
> Are you the kind of person that anyone should want for Tribune? Someone
> who attacks at the slightest provocation, who has no manners and no
> restraint?
>
> > Remember Citizens, I have called for less politics,
>
> Remove the beam in your own eye first.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17479 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Two very good Praetores
AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

I wish to support the candidacies of Gnaeus Octavius Noricus and
Marcus Arminius Maior for the Office of Praetor.
I had the opportunity to know both of them, in particular Cn.
Octavius Noricus, which I met last summer during the Nova Roma Rally
in Europe.
I know they both are very serious people. They would make a very
good job as Praetores next year. Vote them!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus for Praetor
Marcus Arminius Maior for Praetor

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Legatvs
Accensvs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17480 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus
L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <sceptia@...> writes:

[replying to Lucius Arminius Faustus]

Faustus had written about magistrates working together to effect changes:

> However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we can
> work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
> anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been talking
> to many, and there problably will be a forum between many different
> magistrates to write a final text.

Sceptius replied:
> LDGS: Once more I applaud that courageus way of acting, and the real
> sensible ideas you have. However, all offices are somehow with closed
> duties, so I would ask, not only to you, but now for all, which is the best
> way to cooperate?

Ah, that's my cue, since you're asking all of the candidates, I'm going to
assume you mean all other candidates for all other offices too.

I've already mentioned that I want to expand the use of the Contio so that it
becomes a regularly scheduled formal political meeting in which all citizens
have the opportunity to suggest new ideas and offer their opinions on my
ideas and proposals. I will also make a particular effort to be available to
all other magistrates, and most particularly the Plebian Tribunes, whenever
they wish to discuss any matter bearing on Nova Roma with me.

Furthermore, I intend to pass any proposed legislation to my colleague, my
fellow Senators, and the Plebian Tribunes for their confidential review
before I present it. This will both prevent unpleasant surprises, and insure
that anything which might lead to a tribunician veto or Consular intercessio
will be worked out *before* it comes to that.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17481 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Public Apology to Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus
A. Apollonius Cordus to Praetorian Pompeia Cornelia
Strabo and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Bravo.

Just as I've criticised before now those actions of
yours I considered unjustifiable, I can't do less than
applaud this one which strikes me as brave, just and generous.

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17482 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Saturninus for Quaestor!!!
AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

It is so strange to see my friend Caius Curius Saturninus running
for Quaestorship in these elections! Just because he has already
been assisting major magistrates for two years! You could thing he
was already a Quaestor. On the contrary, he was just assisting them
because he loves Rome and our Republic. What he is asking you is to
simply give him the official task to keep serving Nova Roma. And I
strongly invite you to vote for this citizen!
Caius Cuius Saturninus for Quaestor!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Accensvs
Legatvs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17483 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> These people will do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING in thier desire to attain or
> keep power.

And how is that different from you? You're running for office, and one
of your cronies is running against the prime targets of your
hate-filled screeds. And the very first post after the Consul
declares his candidacy is you, filled with scorn and mockery,
accusing him of intending to violate citizens' privacy.

> Are you here for this never ending stream of personal attacks directed
> against anyone who dares to have a different view of Nova Roma

Wrong. They are not directed against "anyone"; they are directed
against you, and you are certainly not just "anyone". You have heaped
scorn upon the works of the current consulship since its beginning -
and now you dare to pretend that the attacks on you are against
"anyone", or are unfounded, or unjustified?

When I point out that it was you who started the latest fight, you
conveniently ignre the facts and claim that we will "do ANYTHING,
say ANYTHING"... is pointing out your own hypocracy tantamount to
"say[ing] ANYTHING"?

> than this group that is determined to control every office and who
> don't care who they destroy in persuit of those offices?

More idiocy. Who has this group "destroyed"?

Is your group - the self-styled "Boni" - not also running for most
of those same offices?

Once again, the pot calls the kettle black.

> Is the political agenda of the Senior Consul and his allies a subject
> that is beyond discussion?

And what about *your* political agenda? Last year you were civil and
rational - until you entered the Senate. Then, no longer needing to
impress the Censores, you dropped your false face and became shrewish
and vindictive.

You are a hypocrite of the worst kind. You have lowered the tone
of this mailing list more than anyone, yet expect people to rally
to your side when you attack others for doing exactly what you are
yourself guilty of.

> A matter for hurling insults and personal
> attacks against any who dare to suggest that his policies might not be
> in the best intrests of Nova Roma?

There you go with the "any" again... who, other than you, has been
the victim of such "insults and personal attacks"?

> Do you see what they are doing? They can't win a debate over the fact
> that the best way to protect your privacy is to limit the number of
> people that have access to your personal information,

Who has ever disagreed with that? You have set up a straw man.
Candidate Caeso has never claimed that he would appoint a large number
of scribae and give them all unrestricted access to the citizens'
information. It is only in your delusions that this has happened.

If (gods forbid) you become Tribune next year, will you veto the
actual acts of the other magistrates, or will you veto things that
you only imagine them doing?

> So they try to attack me over and over to divert your attention
> away from protecting your privacy.

It is you who begun the attacks, as evidenced by the message
quoted in my previous posting. You are reaping what you have sown.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17484 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Restriction of Polls
Salve et tu Q. Lanius Pauli

Yeah, I know....just that some people inspire a touch of "bloody mindedness"; pay it no heed. Merely a reminder that some of the politest societies became so due to an educated and mannered Aristocracy that did not tolerate such crudeness in public. Often a relatively brief period of strict insistence could lead to generations of good public manners. :-D
While I appreciate the potential applications of having them spitted, beheaded, or hurled off a cliff, I must ask: Would the latter include Defenestration? ;-) We have some nicely tall buildings in the D.C. area; not as good as New York's, but good enough.

Bene vale
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Sent: Dec 1, 2003 2:57 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Restriction of Polls

Salve Severi,

It may be tempting but one of the privilages of Roman citizenship was that a citizen could not be flogged or cruxcified. We've checked that out in historical annals before. For example, that was an technical error in the movie Spartacus when Crassus (Laurence Olivier) had Peter Ustinov flogged out of camp. Similarily governor Felix was upset to  hear that St. Paul had been flogged after he found out about his Roman citizenship. Paul, according to rumor was beheaded and not put to the cross. I'm afraid you'll have to settle for spitting the culprit through like a goose, firing him off a cliff or beheading.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...>

Salvete

Thank you for making a wise decision, Salix Astur. 
  Since it is sadly almost definitely an N.R. Citizen who perpetrated this disgraceful business, I strongly urge our finest computer people to try to track down this lowlife so that they might be banished.
If anyone knows anything about who did this slander, please report it to the appropriate Government authorities.
  This kind of behaviour is not to be suffered at all.
(Have lumber, have nails, have post-hole digger: Would gladly bring back an obsolete punishment just for the occassion.)

Valete
           ~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----

From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@y...
Sent: Nov 30, 2003 11:40 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Restriction of Polls
Cn. Salix Astur Quiritibus S.P.D.
Ex Officio Praetorio

With deep sorrow I have to inform you that Nova Roma has been under the attack of an unwelcome troll once more. A spurious poll was created with the purpose to insult some of our candidates to office by a person who created a false account, joined our list, did the damage and then hid like a coward. Because of this, I have taken the decision to close the poll service in this mailing list. If any of you, citizens, have the desire to create a legitimate poll for the readers of this mailing list, please contact the praetores, who will be most pleased to create the poll in your name.
Thank you for your comprehension and cooperation.
S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17485 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Announcing my Candidacy for Rogator
A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Cn. Equitius Marinus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> Good news! We shall have a full complement of
> Rogators next
> year. Hadrianus is the fourth candidate, and now
> the College
> of Rogators can be filled.

While this announcement is great news, I fear it still
leaves us with three candidates only. There was a
fourth - Velius Marsallas - but it turned out that his
candidacy was ruled out by the lex Minucia. Or do you
know something the rest of us don't..? :)

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17486 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
Salvete quirites, et salve Druse,

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote [in reply to me]

> I'm not aware of former Censors having access to the database,

No, I'm pretty sure they lose access when they leave office. But
I meant that if someone had ill intent they could dump out the entire
database for themself while they were in office, and then sell (or
whatever) that data later.

> > Getting back to the question of information security, how do
> > you think we ought to provide for the sort of penalties you
> > and I would both be subject to for disclosing classified
> > information within the context of Nova Roma? Expulsion
> > seems obvious, but should we also adopt a policy statement
> > that Nova Roma Inc. *will* take legal action against any
> > person found guilty of such a betrayal of trust?
>
> First there have to be strict limits on the number of people who have
> access to the database,

I agree.

> this should be limited to the Censors themselves
> and the smallest possible number of Censorial scribes.

I agree with you on this too. I'd like to hear from current and former
Censors on the subject of how many that smallest possible number should be.
My inclination is one scribe per Censor, but I don't want to arrogate that
decision away from the Censors.

> Second personal information should only leave the Censors office if the
> citizen or prospective citizen has authorized it's release.

I'd be fine with encoding this into our laws too. If I'm elected, would you
please contact me after Jaunary first, and we'll work up something that I can
present to the Comitia to insure these things.

Valete,

-- Marinus (writing while watching his students do their lab work)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17487 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Next Consuls: my support
Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...> writes:

[...]
> During this year I worked closely with Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, an
> indefatigable man which demonstrated to know how to deal with things
> and people! Most importantly, he has a sense of duty. He is that
> kind of person which *does* things instead of just chatting, believe
> me! I know for sure he will make an excellent Consul. He deserves
> our votes! ;-)
>
> Vote for Gnaeus Equitius Marinus!

Thank you so much for your kind words and ringing endorsement, Serapio. I
deeply appreciate it.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17488 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A question for Senator Sicinius Drusus (WAS: A Response to...)
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

While I would strenuously defend your freedom to
criticise the Senior Consul and members of his staff,
I think I may not be the only one who is beginning to
feel that he has already heard everything you have to
say on the matter and is getting a little weary of it.

So I should like to ask you a question (well, three
questions really, but the third is a nice easy
multiple-choice question):

The first:

Since you find the conduct of the Consul and his staff
so reprehensible, will you be prosecuting him or them
next year for maladministration?

The second:

If you will, then would it not be more appropriate to
save your comments for the courtroom?

The third:

If you will not, does it show
a) that their conduct has not really been as bad as
you've been making out, or
b) that you are, to use that slightly surreal image,
'all mouth and no trousers'?

I eagerly await your answers.

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17489 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Announcing my Candidacy for Rogator
"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Aedile Cn. Equitius Marinus
> and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> > Good news! We shall have a full complement of Rogators next
> > year. Hadrianus is the fourth candidate, and now the College
> > of Rogators can be filled.
>
> While this announcement is great news, I fear it still
> leaves us with three candidates only. There was a
> fourth - Velius Marsallas - but it turned out that his
> candidacy was ruled out by the lex Minucia. Or do you
> know something the rest of us don't..? :)

No, I don't. I was just recalling seeing three other entries and forgetting
that Marsallas had been required to withdraw.

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17490 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
ROFL,

So I'm not sane and rational?

All I have done is point out that a large staff is a basic violation of
the premises of security, a matter of logic that has subjected me to a
never ending stream of attacks.

By the way, Where is Cornelia? We only have a single member of that Gens
running for office this year. In past years Nova Roma's second largest
Gens was allways active in our affairs, at least they were untill a
series of attacks that went beyond the smears directed at thier Pater,
that included refering to them as a "Mafia Family". Nice Job! A Gens
that was active in Nova Roma's affairs no longer has an intrest in
undergoing the same kind of attacks that I have been recieving on a
daily basis, attacks from the same faction.

No Censor I haven't changed, I stood up for the people who were
undergoing personal attacks from Formosanus. I Stood up for Lucius
Cornelius and his Gens when they were being Personally attacked last
year, and I have stood up for the citizens who have been personally
attacked by members of the Cohors this year.

Where Are my personal attacks against the Senior Consul? I have stated
my belief that the way he manages his staff is NOT conductive to
protecting the privacy of citizens. I Haven't called the Consul
dishonest, a blockhead, insane, or a Jerk, no I have been called all
though things for pointing out that a large number of people having
access to private information is a violation of a basic premise of
securuty, and that the Senior Consul has a long standing habit of
appointing large staffs. I Have pointed out the large number of personal
attacks made by the members of the Senior Consuls staff and his suporters.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > These people will do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING in thier desire to attain or
> > keep power.
>
> And how is that different from you? You're running for office, and one
> of your cronies is running against the prime targets of your
> hate-filled screeds. And the very first post after the Consul
> declares his candidacy is you, filled with scorn and mockery,
> accusing him of intending to violate citizens' privacy.
>
> > Are you here for this never ending stream of personal attacks directed
> > against anyone who dares to have a different view of Nova Roma
>
> Wrong. They are not directed against "anyone"; they are directed
> against you, and you are certainly not just "anyone". You have heaped
> scorn upon the works of the current consulship since its beginning -
> and now you dare to pretend that the attacks on you are against
> "anyone", or are unfounded, or unjustified?
>
> When I point out that it was you who started the latest fight, you
> conveniently ignre the facts and claim that we will "do ANYTHING,
> say ANYTHING"... is pointing out your own hypocracy tantamount to
> "say[ing] ANYTHING"?
>
> > than this group that is determined to control every office and who
> > don't care who they destroy in persuit of those offices?
>
> More idiocy. Who has this group "destroyed"?
>
> Is your group - the self-styled "Boni" - not also running for most
> of those same offices?
>
> Once again, the pot calls the kettle black.
>
> > Is the political agenda of the Senior Consul and his allies a subject
> > that is beyond discussion?
>
> And what about *your* political agenda? Last year you were civil and
> rational - until you entered the Senate. Then, no longer needing to
> impress the Censores, you dropped your false face and became shrewish
> and vindictive.
>
> You are a hypocrite of the worst kind. You have lowered the tone
> of this mailing list more than anyone, yet expect people to rally
> to your side when you attack others for doing exactly what you are
> yourself guilty of.
>
> > A matter for hurling insults and personal
> > attacks against any who dare to suggest that his policies might not be
> > in the best intrests of Nova Roma?
>
> There you go with the "any" again... who, other than you, has been
> the victim of such "insults and personal attacks"?
>
> > Do you see what they are doing? They can't win a debate over the fact
> > that the best way to protect your privacy is to limit the number of
> > people that have access to your personal information,
>
> Who has ever disagreed with that? You have set up a straw man.
> Candidate Caeso has never claimed that he would appoint a large number
> of scribae and give them all unrestricted access to the citizens'
> information. It is only in your delusions that this has happened.
>
> If (gods forbid) you become Tribune next year, will you veto the
> actual acts of the other magistrates, or will you veto things that
> you only imagine them doing?
>
> > So they try to attack me over and over to divert your attention
> > away from protecting your privacy.
>
> It is you who begun the attacks, as evidenced by the message
> quoted in my previous posting. You are reaping what you have sown.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17491 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Digest No 963 Censor Campaign QFM comments
Salve, Diana

Great post Diana! I see that I'm not the only one who has also noted this
interesting phenomenon.
You even got responses from some of them.

I am interested in seeing the response from Quintilianus on the conduct of
his supporters, and even more in his addressing the issues himself, rather
than his hit squad 'cohors'.

Vale, L Equitius Cincinnatus
Censor Emeritus
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:30:56 +0100
From: "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@...>
Subject: Censor Campaign QFM comments

Salve Scaevola,

<Ah, yes; the famous QFM/Drusus/Sulla method of attacking the character
<of the person in order to cover up the fact that they can't answer the
<accusation. Thank you, Maximus;

Well, they may use this method but maybe it is because they don't have a 22
citizen Cohors Consulis
doing it for them.

<I believe this evidence of your ability
<to face issues with integrity and honest, straightforward communication
<will be sufficient for the voters to make their own decisions. I'm done
<with the issue, since you've proven my point... and quite a bit more
<besides.

LOL! If nothing else QFM and Drusus certainly do face issues in a straight
forward manner. There are
many times that I don't agree with either one of them, but even so I have to
admit that I appreciate
their style. You always know where you stand with these gentlemen-- they are
straight to the point
and say what they feel whether anyone likes it or not. Honestly you are the
same so it is no wonder
that the 3 of you bump heads all of the time! By the way, I also appreciate
your straight
forwardness :-)

And while we are the subjects of Censor candidates and straight forward
communication: Caeso Fabius
does not communicate in a straight forward manner to the citizens at all--
he lets his Cohors attack
his opponents while he sits quietly watching from the background. This is
the style that he used
very effectively last year during his campaign against Q Fabius for Consul
and it has continued
throughout the year as we have seen whenever there was a new lex proposed or
when anyone disagreed
with Caeso Fabius. The Cohors people responded but rarely did the Senior
Consul respond himself.
What is confusing to me is when he would take distance from your comments
(and those of other Cohors
members) and state that the Cohors people are not acting on his behalf. So
there were a few times
when I couldn't figure out at all what Caeso Fabius's opinion was.

Now I think that teamwork is a good thing and honestly if I had 22 people
willing to work for me to
try and discredit my competition in public while I sat back and quietly
watched and let citizens
only see my best side, I *might* do it too. Caeso Fabius's 22 assistants are
certainly hard workers,
are very loyal to their 'boss' (so to speak) and certainly earn their
century points! Their loyalty
is of course a credit to Caeso Fabius. I mean, I can't even get my boyfriend
to put the toilet seat
down...
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view2?cmd=staff&mpos=5000#M2681

So I am not at all saying that Caeso Fabius has done anything wrong. On the
contrary-- he uses the
perfect method to maintain the public facade of the honorable magistrate
while still
squashing his opponents. I am only trying to point out that before any
citizen doesn't like the way
QFM or Drusus defend themselves (or the way I defend myself for that matter
:-p ) remember that we
don't have staff's of 22
citizens doing our dirty work for us. Citizens clearly see both our charms
and our bitchy pettty
sides... And everyone has a bit of both you know. No one is perfect.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
Candidate for Consul 2757
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17492 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
wrote:

> I'd be fine with encoding this into our laws too. If I'm elected,
would you
> please contact me after Jaunary first, and we'll work up something
that I can
> present to the Comitia to insure these things.

Salve,

Nova Roma already has the Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus and the Lex
Vedia de Privatus Rebus which deal with citizen's privacy rights. If
someone in a position of trust under those laws violates them,
prosecute by all means. On the privacy issue this turkey's already
been stuffed, basted, turned a golden brown and ready to serve.

Things keep going the way they are going in about 5 years time Nova
Roma is going to have more rules, regulations, rituals, ect than the
Freemasons.

Link to the Leges I mentioned:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-ii.html

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17493 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A question for Senator Sicinius Drusus (WAS: A Response to...)
A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> While I would strenuously defend your freedom to
> criticise the Senior Consul and members of his staff,
> I think I may not be the only one who is beginning to
> feel that he has already heard everything you have to
> say on the matter and is getting a little weary of it.

Have you noticed that allmost all of my statements are replies to
remarks that others have made? How many threads have you seen me start?
Am I susposed to refrain from making replies to statements that others
make?

>
>
> So I should like to ask you a question (well, three
> questions really, but the third is a nice easy
> multiple-choice question):
>
> The first:
>
> Since you find the conduct of the Consul and his staff
> so reprehensible, will you be prosecuting him or them
> next year for maladministration?

A Bit of Background. Last year a Citizen was claiming that he was a real
Patrician decended from the Patrician Fabian Family of Antiquita, and
was demanding his "rightful" place in the Senate. I Stated that an
extraordinary claim like that would require some proof. That statement
caused him to post a death threat against me for insulting his family. I
requested that no one undertake any legal action on my behalf over the
matter.

If I'm not willing to start legal action over a death threat do you
think I will start it over the actions of this past year?

Do I find the actions of the Senior Consul reprehensible? In one case
yes, but that happened in the Senate so I will not discuss it on this
list. Beyond that the worst I would go is mediocre, which is not a crime.

Do I find the actions of his staff reprehensible? In the Case of
Scaevola yes I do. In the case of the attacks launched against me today
by Galerius Auerlius, yes I do.

In other cases such as having a large number of staff members bombard a
citizen with posts, it's distateful, but a lack of taste is not illegal.

Do I think his staff is being used for political purposes? How could I
think otherwise when I see them serving as the political pointmen for a
Consul who rarely communicates with the citizens. There is no law
against it, but it isn't a style of leadership I'm fond of.

>
>
> The second:
>
> If you will, then would it not be more appropriate to
> save your comments for the courtroom?

Have you heard ofthe court of public opinion?

>
>
> The third:
>
> If you will not, does it show
> a) that their conduct has not really been as bad as
> you've been making out, or
> b) that you are, to use that slightly surreal image,
> 'all mouth and no trousers'?

c.) Y'all haven't met my criteria for filing legal action, but my
criteria are so steep that a death threat didn't cut it.

L. Sicinius Drusus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17494 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Re censor campaign
Salva sis Flavia Luccila

While many have voiced similar opinions - that it adds a certain "Roman" colour - I must point out that we all agreed to the Edictum Praetoricium de Moderatione when we signed on to this List. While declared to be merely "Guidelines", they can be enforced and we all did agree to them. Among the three printed pages of "Guidelines" are the following relevant points:

I. "....has no benefit to the rest of the list subscribers, consider sending it privately."

II. "Posts that merely voice agreement with a previous post without expanding on an issue in any way are discouraged."

IV. "If you must dispute or criticize another person's post, consider doing so in private"...."use discretion in this area."

V. "Express respect for the person and the entitlement to his opinion, and faith in his or her good intentions."
"At all times maintain politeness...and endeavour to respect the rights and opinions of others."
"Inappropriate behaviour includes: ...misrepresentation of the truth for the purpose of making another person look foolish;
calling others names; criticizing a poster's personal character...","making derogatory, belittling, subjective statements..."

These are just selections from the first half of what we all agreed to: Yet we are seeing constant violations of this Community Standard. If people will not abide by what they have agreed to, I believe they should politely but firmly be reminded. If they still refuse, why should the rest of us have to put up with their behaviour?

Violating an Agreement is only one degree shy of violating an Oath.

Bene vale
Servius Equitius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Flavia Luccila Merula <k.a.wright@...>
Sent: Dec 1, 2003 4:33 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re censor campaign

<html><body>


<tt>
><BR>
><BR>
>If people can't stick to the issues, the Moderator should start rejecting their posts, returning them to the sender marked "Off Topic and Personal - Please send Privately".  <BR>
>  Of course, that's just my opinion - others may be finding the whole sordid affair to be a jolly romp.<BR>
><BR>
I wouldn't use the words 'jolly romp' but I'd hate to see posts <BR>
restricted purely to issues.  I know I've mostly lurked up to now, due <BR>
to pressures of work and extra training I undertook.  I'm hoping that'll <BR>
change.  No matter how busy I've been I've enjoyed getting up in the <BR>
morning and reading these posts.  It's the way I imagine a walk through <BR>
the Forum would have been.<BR>
<BR>
Just as in the Forum, I wouldn't necessarily have stopped to listen to <BR>
every conversation, here I don't need to read every post to the end <BR>
(though I ususally do :-) )  We have an election capaign going on and <BR>
people hurling insults at each other and others urging us 'to <BR>
conscience' and to remember the dignitas and gravitas of Rome.  We have <BR>
scurrillous fake pictures being posted of candidates.  And, you know <BR>
what, all this reminds me of Rome. Did they hurl insults at each other <BR>
in the Forum?  Of course, in fact they hurled more than that.  They even <BR>
resorted to violence sending in soldiers or thugs depending on whether <BR>
you were a Marius or a Milo.  (Now I'm not advocating that course of <BR>
action :-) )  As for the fake pictures posted to the poll,  I'm sure, if <BR>
they'd had the technology, Caesar's opponents would have leapt at the <BR>
chance to illustrate their allegations of him bending over for the King <BR>
of Bithynia. And as for people discussing goats and sheep, that's fine <BR>
too by me. (By the way, when it comes to sheep, it's not the Scots you <BR>
need to worry about - it's the Welsh :-) )<BR>
<BR>
Finally, as for being urged to remember our dignitas and stick to the <BR>
issues, I'm sure Cato and his followers did that frequently.  For me, <BR>
and that's my opinion, it all contributes to making this list so 'Roman'<BR>
<BR>
Flavia<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17495 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
Cousin Flavi

Are you really proposing yourself as a rallying point for carmudgeons? I'm only middling carmudgeonly - do I qualify? I know some others who have sworn to me privately that they are even more carmudgeonly than you, QFM or LSD - should I have them contact you? Do we get a Carmudgeons Club cap or anything out of this? Is this going to be an official Club?
Please clarify, Carmudgeonly Cousin!

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
Sent: Dec 1, 2003 9:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor

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<tt>
Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus.  Curmudgeons of the world unite!<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17496 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: A Taste of the Ancient World
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "A Taste of the Ancient World":

http://www.umich.edu/~kelseydb/Exhibits/Food/text/Food.html

This site, developed by students at the Univ. of Michigan is a virtual
exhibition of artifacts in the Kelsey Museum related to food and food
prepration in Graeco-Roman Egypt.

Valete, Quirites

G. Iulius Scaurus

Postscriptum: My usual computer is in the shop getting a new sound card
and a memory upgrade and so, for the next day or two, I must rely on a
very old, very slow machine. My apologies in advance if I am slower at
responding to email than usual, but this machine was lightning fast and
top of the line when I purchased it in 1993 :-).

G.I.S.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17497 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:

> Nova Roma already has the Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus and the Lex
> Vedia de Privatus Rebus which deal with citizen's privacy rights. If
> someone in a position of trust under those laws violates them,
> prosecute by all means. On the privacy issue this turkey's already
> been stuffed, basted, turned a golden brown and ready to serve.

I had thought so too Quintus Cassius, but Senator Drusus has some
reasonable concerns that ought to be aired in Comitia, under less
polarized conditions than we currently have (as I suspect a goodly
portion of citizens are simply deleting all Nova Roma e-mail
unread right now.)

> Things keep going the way they are going in about 5 years time Nova
> Roma is going to have more rules, regulations, rituals, ect than the
> Freemasons.

Yes, they do seem to be proliferating like rabbits, don't they?

> Link to the Leges I mentioned:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-ii.html

Thank you. I recall reading that same page right after I became
governor of Mediatlantica, and *before* I got any contact data
for my citizens from the Censors.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17498 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-01
Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
Salve Cousin Flavi

"Divulge" is a legitimate term to use when referring to Citizen's Confidential Information. Isn't National Security, no, but our Citizens should by all means feel comfortable about their information (for the record, I AM comfortable with the way my personal data is treated by the Staff. They have always been courteous and respectful with me).

Wait a minute, Cuz - you said "consistently released confidential information". If anyone EVER releases ANY confidential info. then they better be sacked and fast or you are talking potential lawsuit material. Not "consistent", better not be EVER. Got it?

As for reports of intimidation, I don't know if there ever have been any - if there have been, it better be discussed at the HIGHEST levels of Government ONLY. NO ONE should ever violate confidential private e-mails, and your request for Drusus to do so is out of line.

No one should ever even have to HESITATE about Posting, Cousin - No ganging up on people, it isn't decent EVER. The only case I've seen is a recent 5 on 1 gangup, and I found that to be pretty indecent. You think making someone hesitate to Post isn't Intimidation? What is it then? Where do you draw the line, Cousin? It should never happen - period. Don't try to feed me this 'shades of gray' line.
Like I said, I don't know of any other cases of this happening, but your standards bear some self reflection.

Personally, I don't care how big the Staff is - that so many people are willing to Volunteer their time and effort is probably a good sign. So long as good standards of service and confidentiality are maintained, great! Three cheers for the Staff! But some of your own standards need self-reviewing, Cousin - more than a bit disturbing in some cases (like a LITTLE Intimidation's okay?)

Your Cuz,
Servius Equitius Troianus


-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
Sent: Dec 1, 2003 11:56 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ

<html><body>


<tt>
Dear Drusus:<BR>
<BR>
We are not talking about U.S. Cryptology or Nuclear security measures.  [Dilvulge?  Is that a crytographical term? Vulgar Pickle] We are talking about NR, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, personal honor, and professional behavior--so stick to the subject.<BR>
Can you point to a single member of CFQ's staff who consistently released confidential information inappropriately AND please supply documentation to support your statement?<BR>
In regards to your statement concerning intimidation, would you please tell the citizens (who contacted you privately or publicly)about their being intimitated and who stopped posting (not hesitated-because that means they did continue to post) because of responses from the members of the consular cohor to please contact me privately off-list.  I would like to apologize personally if I said anything that did anything to make them stop posting.<BR>
Before you posted your original remarks about the potentially-bloated staff of two dozen potentially loose-lipped, unreliable censorial scribes, did you email CFQ personally and ask him what his plans were in regards to his censorial staff if he were to be elected?  Or did you think that you would be misinformed (aka lied to) by him, so you did not bother?  Or were your remarks merely an inflammatory attack on his candidacy?  <BR>
I await your answers (as do many citizens) with baited breath.<BR>
<BR>
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17499 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Egypt
Livia Cornelia Hibernia Omnibus S.P.D.

For those who might, as I, also be interested in Ancient Egypt, The
Learning Channel (TLC) cable channel will be starting a two part
program, "Egyptians" on Sunday (Dec 7) at 8:00PM EST/PST. Sorry to
make our non North American Citizens feel left out; I don't know if
TLC is available elsewhere.

Vale,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17500 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Drusus Canidate Statement
Salvete Quirites,

As most of you already know I'm a candidate for Tribune.

Instead of the usual statement I'm just going to Tell you a few things
about myself. I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for almost three years,
since December 28th 2753. I have served as a Propraetor, as a Legate,
and as Accensus to two Consuls. I'm currently a Senator and a Pontifex.

When I first became a citizen Nova Roma was involved in a bitter
political fight over the Gender/Name edict which was later passed into
law. I Did not and do not support this policy. During the fight over
that policy (It in no way deserves the name of a debate) I quickly
became disgusted by the tactics that some who opposed that policy were
employing, smears and personal attacks. I Defended the people who were
supporting a policy I disagreed with against people who's position on
that edict was closer to my own.

Last year the subject of Gens Reform came up, and with it a series of
personal attacks against the Paterfamilias of Cornelia and smears
leveled against his entire Gens. I don't care for the way they choose to
set up their Gens and would prefer that they do so on a more historic
basis, but I defended their right to retain their present structure
until they decide to change it, and defended them against the personal
attacks leveled against them.

Last fall a Pagan came on this list attacking Christians. Even though
I'm a follower of the Religio Romana I stood up for Nova Roma's
Christians against the person who was attacking them, and then pushed
for a change in the Blasphemy law so that non-pagans would know that
they could defend themselves against attacks without fear of being
charged with Blasphemy.

This year I stood up for citizens who were being personally attacked for
stating their political viewpoints by giving the attacker a taste of his
own medicine.

I Ask you to consider these things and then decide what kind of Tribune
I would be.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17501 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: : Re: Ciao!!
avete amici,

>Venite a Bononia questa estate per il Rally di Nova Roma?

A Bononia quest'estate? Quando cade l'evento? ;-)

Scherzo! se volete parlare un po' in Italiano su cose Romane, anche per
non annoiare qui i cittadini di lingue diverse, vi invito nella ml Italica
su:

<NR_Italia@yahoogroups.com>

a presto!

valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS





Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
02/12/03 00.54
Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma

Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 967

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:01:19 -0000
From: "rory12001" <rory12001@...>
Subject: Re: Ciao!!

Salve amice!
Venite a Bononia questa estate per il Rally di Nova Roma?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 14:00, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> > Salve e Ciao,
> >
> > Chi a parla l'italiano? Io parla un piccolo italiano. Io in
del primo
> > anno di liceo. Io in lezione d'italiano. Io ho 14 anni. Mia
famiglia e di italia.
> > Io sono visitare italia in l'estate. Ci vediamo!
> Ciao,
>
> io non parlo l'italiano, capisco spangnolo e francese.
> Scrivi l'italiano, io capiro.
>
> vale
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus



________________________________________________________________________
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17502 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular cand
Salvete omnes

Message: 7 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:09:41 -0500 From: Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus <gawne@...>
Subject: Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <sceptia@...> writes:

[replying to Lucius Arminius Faustus]

Faustus had written about magistrates working together to effect changes:

> However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we can
> work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
> anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been talking
> to many, and there problably will be a forum between many different
> magistrates to write a final text.

Sceptius replied:
> LDGS: Once more I applaud that courageus way of acting, and the real
> sensible ideas you have. However, all offices are somehow with closed
> duties, so I would ask, not only to you, but now for all, which is the
best
> way to cooperate?

Ah, that's my cue, since you're asking all of the candidates, I'm going to
assume you mean all other candidates for all other offices too.

LDGS: That was my very intention, candidate. I'm glad once more for having
some answers on that. :-)

I've already mentioned that I want to expand the use of the Contio so that
it
becomes a regularly scheduled formal political meeting in which all citizens
have the opportunity to suggest new ideas and offer their opinions on my
ideas and proposals. I will also make a particular effort to be available
to
all other magistrates, and most particularly the Plebian Tribunes, whenever
they wish to discuss any matter bearing on Nova Roma with me.

LDGS: I agree with you on that messure. I just wonder if such thing is
enough to encourage citizens to participate in the debates. But is a good
messure, candidate. And of course, your availability is a proof of your
concern. Despite the fact that real life steals many time to us, of course.
:-)

Furthermore, I intend to pass any proposed legislation to my colleague, my
fellow Senators, and the Plebian Tribunes for their confidential review
before I present it. This will both prevent unpleasant surprises, and
insure
that anything which might lead to a tribunician veto or Consular intercessio
will be worked out *before* it comes to that.

LDGS: Bravo! This is what I plainly call cooperation. I mean, your messures
are aimed to build in consense. It is a risk, however, because if your
proposals are too many time delayed by comments it could halt your policies,
couldn't it happen? I guess you'll manage it in a sensible way; you also
would set
deadlines or scheduled dates of meeting. Just a suggestion. :-)

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

LDGS: Equitius Marinus, I feel you'll be a very cooperative Consul if
elected. It seems to me that you'll be deeply involved in daily work in NR.
However, as you have requested for more questions, I'l make them not only to
you but once more, all Consular candidates, including Salix Astur and
Moravia Aventina.

- I have heard of Local Groups (A great idea indeed!) and some ways to make
Nova Roma more international. What kind of legislation is needed, if so, to
achieve such things?

- In a more general way, what should be the future of Nova Roma not only for
next year but forecoming years? Nova Roma is five years old, but that is
almost nothing. What could be the ideas to paviment the way for future
Consuls? (I don't mean that in a restrictive way, of course :-))

Those are the questions I have now. I hope you'll find them not
"factionalist" because I recognize above all only one single faction, Nova
Roma.


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17503 From: L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Salvete omnes.

Salvete Quirites,

As most of you already know I'm a candidate for Tribune.

LDGS: I'm glad to see your statement at last. It is wellcome. :-)

Instead of the usual statement I'm just going to Tell you a few things
about myself. I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for almost three years,
since December 28th 2753. I have served as a Propraetor, as a Legate,
and as Accensus to two Consuls. I'm currently a Senator and a Pontifex.

LDGS: Good curriculum vitae. :-)

When I first became a citizen Nova Roma was involved in a bitter
political fight over the Gender/Name edict which was later passed into
law. I Did not and do not support this policy. During the fight over
that policy (It in no way deserves the name of a debate) I quickly
became disgusted by the tactics that some who opposed that policy were
employing, smears and personal attacks. I Defended the people who were
supporting a policy I disagreed with against people who's position on
that edict was closer to my own.

LDGS: Candidate Sicinius Drusus, please do not take it as a personal attack, but is this a declaration of incoherence acting or just a way to express that you prefer form than content? If first, this is not the way you should act (I think). If second, you could have get involved in that debate keeping the politeness and the policy you agreed with at the same time. I do not believe is a completely honest way to be on the first possible answer, because if you defend those you disagree with because they are bad treated against the content you agree with, you seems not to defend such policy. This is an statement that (Correct me if wrong) could be seen in both ways. Please tell me which is the one you agree with, incoherence or preferring form than content? If there is a third one, I'd like to know.

Last year the subject of Gens Reform came up, and with it a series of
personal attacks against the Paterfamilias of Cornelia and smears
leveled against his entire Gens. I don't care for the way they choose to
set up their Gens and would prefer that they do so on a more historic
basis, but I defended their right to retain their present structure
until they decide to change it, and defended them against the personal
attacks leveled against them.

LDGS: Once more Gens Reform arise. I think it is a major problem, candidate Sicinius Drusus, as far as it involves many Nova Roman spheres of acting.

Last fall a Pagan came on this list attacking Christians. Even though
I'm a follower of the Religio Romana I stood up for Nova Roma's
Christians against the person who was attacking them, and then pushed
for a change in the Blasphemy law so that non-pagans would know that
they could defend themselves against attacks without fear of being
charged with Blasphemy.

LDGS: A very sensible way of acting. I applaud that, as far as being followers of the Religio we should act as true romans and therefore respect (Even to acquire or take) those religions if they don't try to destroy our romanitas. However, I don't see the same link with the first paragraph as far as this was a content/form statement of yours. This about Religio seems to me coherent.

This year I stood up for citizens who were being personally attacked for
stating their political viewpoints by giving the attacker a taste of his
own medicine.

LDGS: Candidate Sicinius Drusus, I beg your pardon if I comment some points of that paragraph. Please forgive me if I say the following (And of course my english) and do not take as personal attack:

Are you saying that your main policy is to attack those who attack any citizen with the very same weapons?

I mean, if a citizen says another one that (s)he is wrong in her/his statements you will defend the attacked even if you are not agree with the statements?

I think this is rather a curious way to defend the plebs, if plebs being the subject of such attack. But in case of all citizenry, or insulting manners, wouldn't that be a dutie of our Praetors to keep the Forum and the respect between individuals? I remember you that the Tribunus Plebis duties about that are closed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa Forum.

On the other hand, that of "A taste of his own medicine" is a little vengeful, if I understood it well. It is not a very cooperating nor sensible way to solve problems between citizens (Just my thought). Remember the spirit of the last law passed concerning the Potestas a Tribunus Plebis have, in II.C., in which the Tribunus would arbitrate a dispute between plebeians. It concerns to the Comitia, but if you take one side because is attacked, what happens to the impartiality needed in all arbitrium (Judgement)?

Please indulge my curiosity; is this really your policy? I feel that there is a difference between candidate Arminius Faustus closer statements "Alas, there is other aspect of the Ancient Tribunes, very clear when
you read Livius. The Tribune must annoy. What? The Tribune must not worry on ´popularity´ or ´fitness´. The Tribune is the inquiritor, the questioner, the guy ´against the entablishment´, the vigile of Libertas. The others magistrates must have pretty clear the Tribunes will be vigilant, as their constitutional duties. This vigilance is good for the Res Publica, although very boring personally" because it seems to me that Arminius Faustus is under that impartiallity needed, not under that wish of making others "Taste their own medicine". I took Arminius Faustus statements as an example because they were similar, but not equal, to yours.

Candidate Sicinius Drusus, if I'm wrong, please correct me. This is what I have understood about your statements. :-)

I Ask you to consider these things and then decide what kind of Tribune
I would be.

LDGS: I really thank you for sharing such viewpoints. I can figure now which Tribunus Plebis will fit the office. Just remember my question were aimed to know who deserves my vote, not the whole citizenship vote. :-)


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17504 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus
Salve,

Tribune, your support for me is rewarding. Even if I don´t be
elected, for this, the elections were happy enough.


Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
<sceptia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> First of all, it comes a bit late, so apologize for it. :-)
>
> Salvete, Gemine, optime amice, god-like tribune,
>
> I was wondering, by Iove, how to answer such a question on the
better
> way to answer to dearest Geminius, friend and giant on the
> Tribuneship.
>
>
> LDGS: Too much flatter for me, good Arminius. I think you answered
me pretty well indeed. :-)
>
>
> The fine post of Marinus has made me thinking on a Seneca saying
that
> I think I´ve been applying all my life with success. It is on ´De
> Tranquilitate animi´ essay.
>
> I don´t have exactly the words here, but he says the best thing to
> spent your time is training your profession, and he cites the singer
> and his voice, the gymnasta and his body, and the magistrate and his
> virtue.
>
> I have been applying this on life. A year and a half ago I´ve
started
> my career as ´factory-floor´ process engineer (I speak too few about
> my personal life, let´s open the gates of the heart) on a very fine
> hydrometalurgical non-ferrous plant of São Paulo. Blessed by queen
> Minerva, patroness of the engineers (and logo of 99% of the
> engineering colleges and labor counsels) I had the responsibility of
> taking care of projects, testworks, processes and employees safety.
>
> When I wondered ´what is the best think to a process engineer spend
> his time?´ I´ve applied Seneca: ´Knowing the process as no one had
> before. I´m paid to know how this factory works, its chemistry, its
> complexities, its operations. I must apply to this with all my
> forces´
>
> And I´ve applied to this. Now, I can say have the honor and
> recognization to be one of the youngest but already a ´reference´on
> the process. For me its a honor saying now as Eliu said to Job: ´I´m
> one of the younger, but I do take seat between the elders of the
> city´ . Professionaly, I´m delighted. (Not that everything is only
> happyness... I still fight for some $ raises $... eheheh)
>
>
> LDGS: This is, indeed, one of the most beautiful things I have
heard. And it contains such a intelligent policy of every-day that
I'd sign up right now. You have the will, the wish and the
background. That makes me happy. :-)
>
> But this is ex-Nova Roma. And how applying this to the Tribuneship?
>
>
> LDGS: Good question!
>
> What is the best thing a Tribune of the Plebis can apply his
efforts?
>
> To the Plebis... all times work on their interest. And the interest
> of a stronger Plebis is the interest of all Nova Roma.
>
>
> LDGS: I agree quite much such statement of general policy. :-)
>
> When I talk ´stronger´ plebis, I don´t mean CP or rivalty. I mean
> even wiser ways of regulate itself. It shall be easy, because next
> year the tribunes will be on the neck of a pretty good tribunitian
> work this year.
>
>
> LDGS: Once more, I'm flattered as much as my colleagues will be. :-)
>
> My experience as plebeian magistrate this year made on my mind very
> clear these necessities. Also, the hard work on quaestorship,
> interpreter and scriba as also open my view. Besides Plebis be the
> main concern, I would be a foul and inutile to the Res Publica if I
> would limit myself to only one duty.
>
>
> LDGS: I applaud that. A very good friend of mine told me that "is
not the office, but what you DO in the office". :-)
>
> I have ideas of some legislations for next year on the matters:
>
> a. Linguis Publicis
> b. Translations production
> c. Matters of magistrates and foruns of Plebean Ordo
> d. Atributions of the Plebeian Aedilship, that IS NOT A LESSER
> magistracy, like I´ve been hearding. (See T. Livius, D. Cassius and
> Plutarch)
> e. Corrections on the scope of works of the Aediles to better fit on
> the Ancient way (you know all, I´ve exposed on my speeches contra
Lex
> Fabia Centuriata.)
> f. Internatinalization of Nova Roma, legal status of the Provinces
>
>
> LDGS: Well, I agree with you that this are some matters that are
quite important for all of us. But as I told another candidate,
Internationalization of NR should be a major problem, as far as it
would involve all magistracys. I'm gald to see that many candidates
seeks that for the next year. :-)
>
> However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we can
> work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
> anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been talking
> to many, and there problably will be a forum between many different
> magistrates to write a final text.
>
>
> LDGS: Once more I applaud that courageus way of acting, and the
real sensible ideas you have. However, all offices are somehow with
closed duties, so I would ask, not only to you, but now for all,
which is the best way to cooperate?
>
> It is realism. To approve a change, you need a big coalization of
> forces, bringing many views to the initial questions.
>
> Alas, there is other aspect of the Ancient Tribunes, very clear when
> you read Livius. The Tribune must annoy. What? The Tribune must not
> worry on ´popularity´ or ´fitness´. The Tribune is the inquiritor,
> the questioner, the guy ´against the entablishment´, the vigile of
> Libertas. The others magistrates must have pretty clear the Tribunes
> will be vigilant, as their constitutional duties. This vigilance is
> good for the Res Publica, although very boring personally.
>
>
> LDGS: Amice, this is a view that fix exactly on what I tried to do.
I feel happy to see someone else share such view. :-)
>
> And the main problem of NR? Spreading itself. For example, the
> situation on Latin America is becoming critical, with negative
> growing. I bring this, although local problem, because I´m the only
> latin (how sweet is this word for me, latin, which origins were on
> the Latium!) latin candidate to Tribuneship. And it has a deep
> conection with ´linguis publicis´ I´ve cited above. But it is a deep
> discussion for more people later.
>
>
> LDGS: Good then. I hope you'll rise the proper debate about.
>
> The muse fails me now. I´ve talked to much. Because talking too much
> is making lots of promises. And the worst thing is coming next year
> and the promises.... well, I will not be the best neither the worst
> Tribune of NR ever. I´ll do the small daily ant work, as my
> possibilities and limitations.
>
> But you can know some of my ideas here, and what expect of me.
>
> I now raise the hands to Ceres Mother. As she shined to me all these
> years, may she continues shining on next magistratures.
>
> LDGS: I join your pray.
>
> Abstract and Quick Checklist:
>
> a. What kind of relationship should the plebeian magistrates have
> between each others?
>
> Make Plebis stronger.
>
> b. What would be your goals on that field?
>
> Propose laws with other magistrates to fullfil these desires.
>
> c. What are the main problems you identify for next year? Why?
>
> Spreading of Nova Roma. There are some provinces with problems of
> negative growing.
>
> LDGS: Good summarize. Only I would ask you is what specific
proposals will you make, although your declaration on general policy
is quite clear. All in all, I fully support your views and ideas for
Tribuneship.
>
> I would like to thank you for the answers, that I left behind
because I was agree with you. Now I say, how I wish all candidates
would be like you or the others who answered! :-)
>
> Citizens, I say I fully support this candidate. I see many debates
in future for the good of Nova Roma with him in Tribuneship.
>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17505 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Online Comic
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Hash: SHA1

Salvete, omnes.

Online gaming comic strip "PVP Online" just featured Rome in a smallish
way. If you're into roleplaying in particular, this can be perceived as
pretty funny, I know I liked it:

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20031201.gif

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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iD8DBQE/zIFRAGtgaSonkUoRAt1AAJ4hx/oAHTo7c6aV3XT390ToXyt/eQCeKtW+
3Yqsdo9ey3rMEYIkB7w2hL8=
=rUgg
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17506 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Egypt
I am extremely interested in Egypt, thank you!
Emhotep.

Livia Cornelia Hibernia <livia_cornelia_hibernia@...> wrote:
For those who might, as I, also be interested in Ancient Egypt,




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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17507 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest No 966 Curmudgeons of the world unite!
Isn't this a Smiths song, copyright infringement! Copyright infringement!

Lucius Equitius <vergil96@...> wrote:Salvete, Quirites

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:47:05 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!

L Equitius: I'd be honored to be counted among them, if you please.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:00:38 -0500
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
> Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> > Dear Drusus,
> >
> >
> > You have been beating this skeletal equine for a year now and all you
> > succeeded in doing was making everyone aware of how big a grump you
> > can be.
>
> Not Quite, the first half of the year I made 1 public comment regarding
> the size of the staff. When others were making comments on it I stated
> that anyone who had observed how the Senior Consul ran his province
> shouldn't be surprised about him appointing a large staff.
>
> > If a magistrate wants to have a big staff, that is the business of the
> > elected magistrate.
>
> That is a point I made in my first post on thr staff. Privately I though
> the absurd size of the staff and that organizational chart was
> hilarious, and still hold that view.
>
> > I can assure you that as a member of the consular cohort, I was never
> > privy to confidential information about any other citizen nor was I
> > some sort of automaton who would violate a trust to serve the public
> > good at the command of a magistrate.
>
> When the Consul started promulgating Leges and I saw that huge staff
> serving as political pointmen overwhealming any poster that questioned
> it's policies with a flood of replies. Some people find getting 15 to 20
> replies to thier every post intimidating. That is when I became
> concerned about the chilling implications on freedom of speach. Either
> by accident or design the Cohors was making people reluctant to post,
> and that is a situation that needs to be pointed out.
>
> >
> > Furthermore, your post comes perilously close to implying that members
> > of a magistrate's staff are untrustworthy and would use confidential
> > information in an inappropriate manner.
>
> My post points out that the larger the number of people who have access
> to confidental information the greater the likelyhood that it will leak.
> That is a basic premise of security. You limit the number of people who
> have access to the lowest possible number in order to limit the
> possibility that information will leak.
>
> > Your post also suggests that CFQ would share confidential information
> > with everyone who serves on his staff regardless of what might be
> > appropriate.
>
> Since the Censors primary job is dealing with confidental information
> about citizens any staff member who did NOT have access wouldn't be able
> to provide any assistance to the Censor and would be providing no
> services to the Res Publica in return for the title and Century points
> he was recieving.
>
> >
> > If this is not the case, I apologize for my response. However, if you
> > are making these implications, then you are (in my opinion, noble sir)
> > a blockhead!
>
>
> I Have held security clearances from the US government regarding
> Cryptology and Nuclear Weapons, so I think I know a bit about security
> procedures. It violates one of the basic premises of security to have a
> large staff with acess to sensitive information. If someone dosen't have
> access to information they can't dilvulge it.
>
> CFQ has a long history of appointing far more people to his staff than
> anyone else has ever needed to do the job. When the job he is seeking
> involves the private information of citizens his inability to function
> without a byzanthian staff is a matter of concern that the voters need
> to keep in mind.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

L Equitius: As a former Censor I'm Greatly concerned over this issue.
While I was Censor I had 1 (one) scriba and that was Marcus Octavius
Germanicus who developed that data system that was, and is used, and who
took my place. Censor is a damanding job and I feel that the Censor should
do the work themselves. I worked with my colleague and together we did the
work which was greatly assisted by the technical knowledge and trustworthy
labors of M Octavius and M Arminius, not a tribe of Beneficarius, Asscensus,
etc. etc.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:05:17 -0500
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Quirites,
> Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors serving as political
> point men for the Senior Consul.
>
> Is this the reason that CFQ appoints so many people to his staff?
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> > Drusus & Q. Fabius Maximus. Curmudgeons of the world unite!.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:25:44 -0500
> From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus for Censor
>
> Salve Senator Drusus, et salvete quirites,
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > Quirites,
> > Here is yet another example of the Consular Cohors
> > serving as political point men for the Senior Consul.
>
> You're conflating two things here Senator. The fact that
> people post things supportive of Consul Quintillianus
> means only that they are supportive of him. Many of these
> same people were posting in support of him last year before
> he was Consul, and before they were on his Consular staff.
>
> I can assure you that there's no back-channel planning
> or coordination of posts by people on the Consul's staff.
> If anybody suggested such a thing I'd personally squash
> it, as it would be wrong.
>
> So when you see Cordus post something, and Galerius post
> something, and Scaevola post something, it's not happening
> because of an orchestrated "tag team" effort. It's because
> those people all have perhaps similar thoughts on a matter,
> and they're all of them inclined to speak up when they
> have something to say.
>
> I suppose it's possible that there's some sort of nefarious
> business going on that I just didn't get invited to be a
> part of, but I sincerely doubt it.
>
> (And to answer a question you haven't yet asked, no, I
> have no intention of having anywhere near as large a
> consular staff for myself.)
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

L Equitius: To me this response to a response simply proves the point that
there is a group of Quintilianus supporters who defend his interests with a
tag team of smothering posts, while the "good guy" stays "above it all", or
when he does post it is some mundane platitude.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:56:52 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Re: A Response to L. Sicinius Drusus concerning his remarks @ CFQ
>
> Dear Drusus:
>
> We are not talking about U.S. Cryptology or Nuclear security measures.
[Dilvulge? Is that a crytographical term? Vulgar Pickle] We are talking
about NR, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, personal honor, and professional
behavior--so stick to the subject.
<SNIP>
> I await your answers (as do many citizens) with baited breath.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus


L Equitius: I for one would like to know why anyone would need the LARGE
staff that Quintilianus feels he much have.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:18:50 -0500
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
> Subject: Consuls, Censors, Cohors, Curmudgeons, and Questions
>
> Excuse me, Senator, but are you on the same page as the rest of us?

L Equitius: Damn right I am...

Several people have made issue over the staff size that has been a trademark
of CF Quintilianus.
One would think that he would address these issues HIMSELF.

While Q Fabius Maxiamus has addressed the Forum numerous times ANSWERING his
critiques, his filius has been conspicuously silent.

Nevermind that he chooses to oppose his Paterfamilias.
What caused this situation? O Tempora, O Mores

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus



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S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17508 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest No 963 Censor Campaign QFM comments
To Lucius Equitius from Flavius Galerius. Vale.

I just wanted to tell yas that the Hit Squad is disappointed with yas so me and L. Nunzio and M. Guido are comin' over to mess up your patina. You gonna be swimmin' wid the piscus.
ROTFLOL.

Sincerely,

The Hit Squad

(Joke, Joke)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17509 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Curmudgeons versus Comedians
Flavi Galeri to his young cousin Servi Equiti. Salve.

Nay, cuz. I am not a member of the curmudgeon's club although you will likely find that many Nova Romans are members. I prefer to think of myself as a member of the comedian's club. We use wit, humor, and the occasional (o.k., more than occasional) jibe to underscore our arguments. I will be the first to admit that sometimes our humorous attempts to point out a shortcoming in an argument may fall flatter than last year's souffle but we keep at it. Now if you want to be a member of the comedian's club just keep a humorous thought and always remember to leave them both laughing and thinking. May Pater Liber grant you good humor and good company. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17510 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsement: Arminius Maior for Praetor!
Quirites,

Some people works on background everytime. Alas, they are not on the
play, acting, but behind the scenes, giving clothes and text to the
actors, pulling the ´Deus ex-machina´, or selling tickets... and
making the play on their way, so important than the actors or
writters.

If there is o Rome a man worth of the Praetorship, this man is
Arminius Maior, even more than Arminius Faustus may be worth of the
Tribuneship.

See the files. Always when someone needed a question on Law, Arminius
Maior, past year on its tribuneship had the right answer, showing
extensive knowledge of Nova Roma legislation. And this knowledge has
not diminushed a bit.

This year, as a scriba of the Censor, he has beeing a pilar of good
work and fast acess.

But should I add more commentaries to his many deeds than on his
propraetorship of Brasilia Province? On the doom of all Latin America
on Nova Roma (future consuls, see this dearly!), Arminius Maior is
the last Horace standing.

If Arminius Maior had never been a excelent Tribune, Aedile or
Scriba, he is worthy of the praetorship by the excellent
propraetorship!

Should I add he one of the best paterfamilias? See the numbers of
active citizens on gens Arminia!

Or should I add he is a Senator example of dignitas? No, I will not
add. The others Senators shall make a choir on this!

Alas, to prove its dedication, it is the second time he stands for
the praetorship. Well, there still is too many cargos opened, but the
ideal of a man is important. Even paused on curso honorum, he knows
on the praetorship he will do his best.


Citizens, if there is a man worthy of the Praetorship, this is
Arminius Maior. My words are a pale bright of his virtue. But they
are just a remember that the praetorship needs him, and he needs your
vote.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17511 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
These laws do little to protect a citizens privacy. Any magistrate can
receive confidential information regardless of having or not having a
reason to access that information. Any magistrate who has access can
point as many aides as he wishes and share that information with them.
The Laws fail to provide additional protections for the information of
minors, which could result in legal complications for Nova Roma Inc.

Many in the USA have found fault the PATRIOT act as an invasion of
privacy, but John Ashcroft is under tighter restrictions about receiving
private information from other government offices than Nova Roma
Magistrates are. Most internet sites have tighter restrictions on the
internal use of private information than Nova Roma does.

Up to now we have relied on the restraint of the magistrates in this
matter, but that is not enough. There is a possibility that a man who
doesn't know the meaning of the word "restraint" when it comes to
appointing staff members will be elected Censor.

Nova Roma needs a tough policy that severely limits access to private
information.

L. Sicinius Drusus

quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
> wrote:
>
> > I'd be fine with encoding this into our laws too. If I'm elected,
> would you
> > please contact me after Jaunary first, and we'll work up something
> that I can
> > present to the Comitia to insure these things.
>
> Salve,
>
> Nova Roma already has the Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus and the Lex
> Vedia de Privatus Rebus which deal with citizen's privacy rights. If
> someone in a position of trust under those laws violates them,
> prosecute by all means. On the privacy issue this turkey's already
> been stuffed, basted, turned a golden brown and ready to serve.
>
> Things keep going the way they are going in about 5 years time Nova
> Roma is going to have more rules, regulations, rituals, ect than the
> Freemasons.
>
> Link to the Leges I mentioned:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-ii.html
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17512 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Vetos (was Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus)
Salve,

Well, the biggest problem of a veto is human:

If I say

´I veto your proposal, Consul, because it is stupid and violates for
the interests of the Res Publica´

Inconsciously, we always understand

´I veto you, Consul, because you´re a stupid who violates by your
interests the Res Publica´

So, is very very very easy snipping to personal positions a mere
´political disagreement´.

The disagrement goes thought Lex Fulana to Fulanus. We are men.
´Fraternal correction´ is an utopia. Unfortunatly.

A ´closed´ veto would cease any political implications spreading like
waves on a lake, when hurled a stone into. It would make thing easier
to the politicians, and, without starting personal flames, the laws
would be better written and with less oposition.

However, you must consider that the ´veto´ is a right of all seeing.
Alas, a big matter of mistake, shouldn´t never pass thought the inner
consular staff to need the veto of a Tribune, or even throught the
consul himself. The veto is a political thing too strong to be
hidden, and last barrier of this institution.

***

I myself wonder that a Tribune must have not to think twice or been
afraid to giving a veto. A mistaken veto can be easily removed, but a
Law... oh my. And it should make the others magistrates more vigilant
on their proposals. The turmoil of many vetos on the starting, would
make the other magistrates better.

So, the uses of the right of a veto make the own veto useless.
because the magistrate will think ´Oh, these damn tribunes on my
neck´ and be assured the law is ´veto-proof´ - on other words - ´100%
constitutionaly´.

Like on Ancient Republic was. At price of many turmoils, yes, yes,
yes, but the laws comming of these turmoils were not good to the Res
Publica? History shows us!

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS <sceptia@y...> writes:
>
> [replying to Lucius Arminius Faustus]
>
> Faustus had written about magistrates working together to effect
changes:
>
> > However, much of them don´t have to be tribunitian laws, but we
can
> > work together with consules and praetores. I will not propose
> > anything definitive HERE, I have some small ideas I´ve been
talking
> > to many, and there problably will be a forum between many
different
> > magistrates to write a final text.
>
> Sceptius replied:
> > LDGS: Once more I applaud that courageus way of acting, and the
real
> > sensible ideas you have. However, all offices are somehow with
closed
> > duties, so I would ask, not only to you, but now for all, which
is the best
> > way to cooperate?
>
> Ah, that's my cue, since you're asking all of the candidates, I'm
going to
> assume you mean all other candidates for all other offices too.
>
> I've already mentioned that I want to expand the use of the Contio
so that it
> becomes a regularly scheduled formal political meeting in which all
citizens
> have the opportunity to suggest new ideas and offer their opinions
on my
> ideas and proposals. I will also make a particular effort to be
available to
> all other magistrates, and most particularly the Plebian Tribunes,
whenever
> they wish to discuss any matter bearing on Nova Roma with me.
>
> Furthermore, I intend to pass any proposed legislation to my
colleague, my
> fellow Senators, and the Plebian Tribunes for their confidential
review
> before I present it. This will both prevent unpleasant surprises,
and insure
> that anything which might lead to a tribunician veto or Consular
intercessio
> will be worked out *before* it comes to that.
>
> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17513 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Digest Number 968
>Subject: Saturninus for Quaestor!!!
>
>AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE
>
>It is so strange to see my friend Caius Curius Saturninus running
>for Quaestorship in these elections! Just because he has already
>been assisting major magistrates for two years! You could thing he
>was already a Quaestor. On the contrary, he was just assisting them
>because he loves Rome and our Republic. What he is asking you is to
>simply give him the official task to keep serving Nova Roma. And I
>strongly invite you to vote for this citizen!
>Caius Cuius Saturninus for Quaestor!
>
>OPTIME VALETE
>Manivs Constantinvs Serapio


Salve,

Thank you for your kind words. It's a kind of shame I cannot endorse
your candidacy, but when your professional life permits you to
continue the climbing in the cursus, you can count on my vote!

Vale,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17514 From: jim mcfadden Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Saturninus for Quaestor!!!
I agree !! Vote for Caius ........
and may the great work continue!!

Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...> wrote:
AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

It is so strange to see my friend Caius Curius Saturninus running
for Quaestorship in these elections! Just because he has already
been assisting major magistrates for two years! You could thing he
was already a Quaestor. On the contrary, he was just assisting them
because he loves Rome and our Republic. What he is asking you is to
simply give him the official task to keep serving Nova Roma. And I
strongly invite you to vote for this citizen!
Caius Cuius Saturninus for Quaestor!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Accensvs
Legatvs



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17515 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Resignation from Consular Cohors & The Upcoming Elections
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus S.P.D. Salvete.

Due to a recent comment, by someone whom I hold in high esteem, that
the current thread of debate between myself and others is based upon
my membership in the Consular Cohors, I wish to end any suggestion
of that sort and announce that I have resigned as Accensus Ordinary
as of today.
I would like the indulgence of the public to consider my statements
(including the name-calling) in my recent posts and look back on the
posts that I have put out over the last two years. You will note
that my tone, humor, and content have remained fairly constant even
before I became associated with the Senior Consul or his cohors.
Before I even announced my candidacy for Rogator, I settled my one
long-time, public disagreement with another citizen because I had
realized that it was silly and was never that important. He took
the olive branch and the hand that I offered him and he has my
respect.
However, the current thread between myself, Senator Drusus, and some
others is not silly because some of us are standing for public
office. The office of Rogator is a fairly clear cut job that
requires attention to detail, honesty, and prompt response to the
appropriate magistrates. I know that I can fulfill that office and
ask that the citizens of Nova Roma elect me to that post.
You can all read the old posts and get a good idea of what kind of
person I am just as you can see what kind of person the other
candidates for any of the magistracies. Other public posts require
honesty and attention to detail also, but their is the need for
diplomacy, straitforwardness, humor, compromise, the ability to know
when one is wrong, when one has made mistakes, and how to correct
those errors and ask for help to make matters right. I strongly
suggest that when considering a candidate for public office in Nova
Roma that you look back on their old posts which are recorded at
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com. You can also check voting records in the
Senate and announcements made by previous consuls, praetors,
censors, and tribunes on the old list.
Choose wisely and not exclusively on their associations, friends,
gens affiliation, or the gods they worship. If they have held
previous office, look at their record and privately email their
colleagues to see what kind of magistrates they actually were in
their public behaviors and duties.
I would like to express my deep appreciation to those individuals
who have advised me, inspired me, and have strongly influenced my
choices and decisions on this matter. Always remember, fellow
citizens, that actions speak louder and are remembered longer than
words. Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17516 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: my candidate endorsements
Salvete omnes,

I will present in this mail the candidates which I support in this
years elections and my motivations to do so. Regardless of your
opinion about the candidates I endorse here I hope that everyone
would do the Roman thing, that is take part in the elections as
voters!

Censor
-Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
I have worked intensivily with Caeso Fabius Quintilianus during my
time in NR. Everything he does he takes seriously and carries his
duties with dignity. I could not imagine a better person to important
censorial position.

Consul
-Gnaeus Salix Astur
-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
I have already wrote about my favourite candidates, Gnaeus Salix
Astur and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, and why I think that they would be
a dream team as consuls, so I just shortly say here: they both are
fine gentlemens who have and will serve our respublica with dignity.

Praetor
-Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
-Marcus Arminius Maior
I have seen the impressive work done by Gnaeus Octavius Noricus in
this year at the cohors consulis of senior consul Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus. I have also had the honour to meet him at the NR Rally
in Bologna this Summer. He is serious and perhaps not most visible
person on the main list, but his dedication and skills have convinced
me that he would make a good praetor. While I haven't worked with
Marcus Arminius Maior, I have been reading his emails on past years
on the mailing lists and found him to be solid and reliable person
who, I trust, will carry on his duties with excellent performance.

Aedilis Curulis
-Marcus Iulius Perusianus
-Gaius Iulius Scaurus
Marcus Iulius Perusianus is one of the nicest fellows I have known. I
met him at the NR Rally in Bologna this Summer and he even came
afterwards to Rome to see us and we spent a wonderful day by touring
under his guidance the city centre and in museums. I have seen the
hard and fruitful work he has done with the Magna Mater project and
at the cohors aedilis this year. I'm sure that he will be an
excellent aedile and continues the traditions of active curule
aediles in NR. I think that the other person I support as curule
aedile needs not any introduction, so I'm just happy to say that I'm
sure that Gaius Iulius Scaurus will make an excellent aedile with
his, probably endless, knowledge about history and culture of Rome.

Plebeian Aedile
-Emilia Curia Finnica
I think I know what I'm talking about when I say that Emilia Curia
Finnica is wonderful, honest, talented and hard working person who
will make an excellent plebeian aedile.

Tribunus Plebis
-Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-Julilla Sempronia Magna
Franciscus I met at the NR Rally in Bologna this Summer, and what can
say about him? He is wonderful person and absolutely honest and
trustworthy, his sense of justice is most strong and he has worked
really hard for respublica for many years. He is the man who brought
"the mother of all provinces", his own Italia, from sad inactivity
into flourishing beauty. Julilla on the other hand is well worth her
cognomen as she is wise, just, talented and solid person who will
make an excellent tribuna.

Quastor
-Caius Curius Saturninus
-Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
-Gaia Fabia Livia
I hesitated a while about including my own name to this list, but I
tought that as I'm endorsing the candidates I would like to see
elected, it would have been hypocritical to leave my own name off
from the list. I believe that I would make a good quaestor.
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia I have seen at the cohors consulis and her
work has been excellent, it is natural for her to start her cursus.
Gaia Fabia Livia I have had the honor to work with this year and her
intelligence and kindness have made an impression. I believe that she
will be an excellent quaestor.

Rogator
-Aulus Apollonius Cordus
-Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus
Aulus Apollonius Cordus is one of NR's most hardworking citizens and
he does his duties always with politeness that is examplary. No
schedule is too tight for him to complain and he always carries his
duties to the point and mostly even beyond. His knowledge on NR laws
cannot be anything else than a excellent bonus for his work as
rogator if he gets elected. Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus is a
strong individual who has solid sense of duty and justice, I believe
it people like him that make ideal for any public office, so I
endorse him for rogatorship.

Curator Araneum
-Marcus Octavius Germanicus
The famous "last but not least" part is here. I'm sure that everyone
recognises the long hours Marcus Octavius Germanicus has put into the
website and database systems that virtually run our respublica. He
has the skills, dedication and merits many times for the office of
Curator Araneum!


There were my endorsements for this years elections. As I said in the
beginning of this message, regardless of whom you vote, make sure
that you vote!

Valete,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17517 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS wrote:

> Salvete omnes.
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> As most of you already know I'm a candidate for Tribune.
>
> LDGS: I'm glad to see your statement at last. It is wellcome. :-)
>
> Instead of the usual statement I'm just going to Tell you a few things
> about myself. I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for almost three years,
> since December 28th 2753. I have served as a Propraetor, as a Legate,
> and as Accensus to two Consuls. I'm currently a Senator and a Pontifex.
>
> LDGS: Good curriculum vitae. :-)
>
> When I first became a citizen Nova Roma was involved in a bitter
> political fight over the Gender/Name edict which was later passed into
> law. I Did not and do not support this policy. During the fight over
> that policy (It in no way deserves the name of a debate) I quickly
> became disgusted by the tactics that some who opposed that policy were
> employing, smears and personal attacks. I Defended the people who were
> supporting a policy I disagreed with against people who's position on
> that edict was closer to my own.
>
> LDGS: Candidate Sicinius Drusus, please do not take it as a personal
> attack, but is this a declaration of incoherence acting or just a way
> to express that you prefer form than content? If first, this is not
> the way you should act (I think). If second, you could have get
> involved in that debate keeping the politeness and the policy you
> agreed with at the same time. I do not believe is a completely honest
> way to be on the first possible answer, because if you defend those
> you disagree with because they are bad treated against the content you
> agree with, you seems not to defend such policy. This is an statement
> that (Correct me if wrong) could be seen in both ways. Please tell me
> which is the one you agree with, incoherence or preferring form than
> content? If there is a third one, I'd like to know.

DRUSUS: Opposing the Gender/Name edict was not popular, not with the
views of most Nova Romans of the time, not with the people who were in
power at the time, not with my friend Lucius Cornelius (who issued it).
I Did not and will not let popularity or friendship stand in the way of
doing what I consider the right thing for Nova Roma. I Defended people
who were being unjustly attacked even though remaining silent would have
aided my political position on that law. Anyone can tell you they will
place Nova Roma's interests above their personal interests. I gave you
an example of me actually placing what I considered Nova Roma's best
interests over popularity, over friendship, and over political expediency.

>
>
> Last year the subject of Gens Reform came up, and with it a series of
> personal attacks against the Paterfamilias of Cornelia and smears
> leveled against his entire Gens. I don't care for the way they choose to
> set up their Gens and would prefer that they do so on a more historic
> basis, but I defended their right to retain their present structure
> until they decide to change it, and defended them against the personal
> attacks leveled against them.
>
> LDGS: Once more Gens Reform arise. I think it is a major problem,
> candidate Sicinius Drusus, as far as it involves many Nova Roman
> spheres of acting.

DRUSUS: Gens Reform is something that has to be approached with caution.
When we do it we can never lose sight of the fact that Nova Roma's
citizens are not lead figures that can be rearranged with no
consequances. If this matter isn't approached with care it can result in
the largest mass resignation in Nova Roma's history. This is why I favor
a minimal approach that would allow those who wish to set their Gens up
on a historic basis to do so, and to allow those who aren't ready to
take that step to remain as they are until they are ready for that
change. Attempting to persude them to change is wiser than attempting to
force them to change. Gens Reform is NOT something that is on my agenda
though I may support a reasonable proposal from another magistrate if it
does not involve the forced breakup of existing Gens who prefer to
retain their present structure.

>
>
> Last fall a Pagan came on this list attacking Christians. Even though
> I'm a follower of the Religio Romana I stood up for Nova Roma's
> Christians against the person who was attacking them, and then pushed
> for a change in the Blasphemy law so that non-pagans would know that
> they could defend themselves against attacks without fear of being
> charged with Blasphemy.
>
> LDGS: A very sensible way of acting. I applaud that, as far as being
> followers of the Religio we should act as true romans and therefore
> respect (Even to acquire or take) those religions if they don't try to
> destroy our romanitas. However, I don't see the same link with the
> first paragraph as far as this was a content/form statement of yours.
> This about Religio seems to me coherent.
>
> This year I stood up for citizens who were being personally attacked for
> stating their political viewpoints by giving the attacker a taste of his
> own medicine.
>
> LDGS: Candidate Sicinius Drusus, I beg your pardon if I comment some
> points of that paragraph. Please forgive me if I say the following
> (And of course my english) and do not take as personal attack:
>
> Are you saying that your main policy is to attack those who attack any
> citizen with the very same weapons?
>
> I mean, if a citizen says another one that (s)he is wrong in her/his
> statements you will defend the attacked even if you are not agree with
> the statements?
>
> I think this is rather a curious way to defend the plebs, if plebs
> being the subject of such attack. But in case of all citizenry, or
> insulting manners, wouldn't that be a dutie of our Praetors to keep
> the Forum and the respect between individuals? I remember you that the
> Tribunus Plebis duties about that are closed to the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa Forum.

>
>
> On the other hand, that of "A taste of his own medicine" is a little
> vengeful, if I understood it well. It is not a very cooperating nor
> sensible way to solve problems between citizens (Just my thought).
> Remember the spirit of the last law passed concerning the Potestas a
> Tribunus Plebis have, in II.C., in which the Tribunus would arbitrate
> a dispute between plebeians. It concerns to the Comitia, but if you
> take one side because is attacked, what happens to the impartiality
> needed in all arbitrium (Judgement)?
>
> Please indulge my curiosity; is this really your policy


The Tribunes Office was created in Antiquita to defend the Rights of the
Plebs. Defending Rights is a key part of the job, my policy on freedom
of speach can be summed up in a famous quote:

``I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it''
(Evelyn Beatrice Hall, commonly misattributed to Voltaire)


> I feel that there is a difference between candidate Arminius Faustus
> closer statements "Alas, there is other aspect of the Ancient
> Tribunes, very clear when
> you read Livius. The Tribune must annoy. What? The Tribune must not
> worry on ´popularity´ or ´fitness´. The Tribune is the inquiritor, the
> questioner, the guy ´against the entablishment´, the vigile of
> Libertas. The others magistrates must have pretty clear the Tribunes
> will be vigilant, as their constitutional duties. This vigilance is
> good for the Res Publica, although very boring personally" because it
> seems to me that Arminius Faustus is under that impartiallity needed,
> not under that wish of making others "Taste their own medicine". I
> took Arminius Faustus statements as an example because they were
> similar, but not equal, to yours.
>
> Candidate Sicinius Drusus, if I'm wrong, please correct me. This is
> what I have understood about your statements. :-)
>
> I Ask you to consider these things and then decide what kind of Tribune
> I would be.
>
> LDGS: I really thank you for sharing such viewpoints. I can figure now
> which Tribunus Plebis will fit the office. Just remember my question
> were aimed to know who deserves my vote, not the whole citizenship
> vote. :-)
>
>
> vale bene in pace deorum,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17518 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsements for Consul
Salvete Quirites,

I Have looked over the candidates for Consul, and one of the candidates
qualifications stand out above the other two. Gnaeus Salix Astur has
served Nova Roma as a Tribune of the Plebs, as a Praetor, and as a
Senator. Neither of the other two candidates experience matches that of
Gnaeus Salix. I May not agree with all of his political views, but there
is no questioning his qualifications for the position. I recommend that
you vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur for Consul.

The other two candidates are more evenly matched, but Diana Morivia
Aventina's service as a Tribune of the Plebs gives her the edge. A
Tribune of the Plebs presides over a Comitia, drafts laws, and presides
over elections, some of the duties that a Consul is called on to
perform. Her service as a Tribune allowed Diana Morivia to observe the
Senate this past year and become familiar with the protocols of a body
she will be expected to lead. I'm not in full agreement with all of
Diana Morivia's political views but I have no doubts about her being the
second most qualified candidate for the position. I Recommend that you
elect Diana Morivia Aventina as your Consul.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17519 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Flavius Galerius to his cousin, Servius Equitius Troianus. Salve.

I am aware of the word 'divulge' and its meaning, good cousin, but
the word that Senator Drusus used was 'dilvulge' and I thought he
was being humorous (i.e., dilvulge translated as vulgar pickle). On
closer examination, I realized that it was an error consistent with
his usual vocabulary/grammar and innate ability to answer direct
questions that are put to him by me.

I did mean "consistently released confidential information" because
on more than one occasion, a magistrate or official accidentally hit
the wrong reply key and sent out information in a message that was
not meant for the general population. This is a mistake which can
happen to anyone occasionally but is hardly worth getting sacked or
impeached for the one mistake. However, any magistrate, scribe, or
accensus who did this more than once or twice would have likely
deliberately "consistently released confidential information" and
would deserve to be sacked, impeached, fired, banished, or whatever.

On the question of intimidation by any political group or other
organization on the mainlist, it was implied that this had occurred
but there is no record of such on the mainlist records. I asked the
person who made this statement to put me in touch with anyone who
had ever told him that they felt intimidated and I would privately
apologize for any of my personal actions or comments that had caused
them not to post. It was not "...out of line" to attempt to
apologize to an individual who may have been intimidated by
something I might have posted. It has been and is currently NEVER
my intent to intimidate someone in such a way as to make them stay
off the list.

In the matter of hesitating to post in response to something that
one has read on the mainlist, it is quite normal to hesitate so you
can think out your response and measure that response properly. I
have posted occasionally without thinking about the effect my
response might have on another person's feelings and have regretted
that I did not hesitate and think before posting. You are correct
in saying that "...ganging up on people, it isn't decent EVER." If
a group of citizens or members of a political organization were to
have read a post that they didn't like and then communicated among
themselves to launch a series of retalitory messages with the intent
to intimidate someone, then that is definitely wrong. However, if
five different individuals just responded negatively to a slanderous
comment or unfounded insinuation that another individual posted,
then it is not "ganging up." If that were the case, then the entire
Civil Rights Movement in US history is an example of ganging up
against bigots.
One person's response that makes a person hesitate (aka think,
consider, ponder) before they make a response CAN be interpreted as
a form of intimidation. I found some college professors
intimidating but they intimitated me into thinking before I blurted
out something that could lead to my looking foolish. Now if a large
man in a sharkskin suit was to lean into your face and say that if
you don't vote for such-and-such, you are going to regret it. Now
that is the kind of intimidation that is totally wrong. So, cousin,
I am saying that certain KINDS of intimidation are acceptable if
they can produce a positive action without forcible coercion.
Now I must eat some crow here because I am guilty of violating some
of the guidelines of the Edictum Praetoricium de Moderatione by not
disputing some public posts in private, calling another citizen
names, and making derogatory statements. I am also forced to say
that I am very much likely to do it again in the future when
confronted with the same sort of remarks and behavior from another
citizen. In other words, I am guilty of the "but he did it first"
rule and the "I won't apologize until he does" rule of schoolyard
behavior. What can I say, dear cousin, I'm a big kid who lives by
the Parrothead philosophy of "I'm growing older but not up!"
With affection and respect,

Flavi Galeri
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17520 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Correction "innate INability to answer direct questions that are put
to him by me." Apologies for the occasional sloppy grammar.

F Gal Aur Sec

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
<Patrick.Owen@s...> wrote:
> Flavius Galerius to his cousin, Servius Equitius Troianus. Salve.
>
> I am aware of the word 'divulge' and its meaning, good cousin, but
> the word that Senator Drusus used was 'dilvulge' and I thought he
> was being humorous (i.e., dilvulge translated as vulgar pickle).
On
> closer examination, I realized that it was an error consistent
with
> his usual vocabulary/grammar and innate ability to answer direct
> questions that are put to him by me.
>
> I did mean "consistently released confidential information"
because
> on more than one occasion, a magistrate or official accidentally
hit
> the wrong reply key and sent out information in a message that was
> not meant for the general population. This is a mistake which can
> happen to anyone occasionally but is hardly worth getting sacked
or
> impeached for the one mistake. However, any magistrate, scribe,
or
> accensus who did this more than once or twice would have likely
> deliberately "consistently released confidential information" and
> would deserve to be sacked, impeached, fired, banished, or
whatever.
>
> On the question of intimidation by any political group or other
> organization on the mainlist, it was implied that this had
occurred
> but there is no record of such on the mainlist records. I asked
the
> person who made this statement to put me in touch with anyone who
> had ever told him that they felt intimidated and I would privately
> apologize for any of my personal actions or comments that had
caused
> them not to post. It was not "...out of line" to attempt to
> apologize to an individual who may have been intimidated by
> something I might have posted. It has been and is currently NEVER
> my intent to intimidate someone in such a way as to make them stay
> off the list.
>
> In the matter of hesitating to post in response to something that
> one has read on the mainlist, it is quite normal to hesitate so
you
> can think out your response and measure that response properly. I
> have posted occasionally without thinking about the effect my
> response might have on another person's feelings and have
regretted
> that I did not hesitate and think before posting. You are correct
> in saying that "...ganging up on people, it isn't decent EVER."
If
> a group of citizens or members of a political organization were to
> have read a post that they didn't like and then communicated among
> themselves to launch a series of retalitory messages with the
intent
> to intimidate someone, then that is definitely wrong. However, if
> five different individuals just responded negatively to a
slanderous
> comment or unfounded insinuation that another individual posted,
> then it is not "ganging up." If that were the case, then the
entire
> Civil Rights Movement in US history is an example of ganging up
> against bigots.
> One person's response that makes a person hesitate (aka think,
> consider, ponder) before they make a response CAN be interpreted
as
> a form of intimidation. I found some college professors
> intimidating but they intimitated me into thinking before I
blurted
> out something that could lead to my looking foolish. Now if a
large
> man in a sharkskin suit was to lean into your face and say that if
> you don't vote for such-and-such, you are going to regret it. Now
> that is the kind of intimidation that is totally wrong. So,
cousin,
> I am saying that certain KINDS of intimidation are acceptable if
> they can produce a positive action without forcible coercion.
> Now I must eat some crow here because I am guilty of violating
some
> of the guidelines of the Edictum Praetoricium de Moderatione by
not
> disputing some public posts in private, calling another citizen
> names, and making derogatory statements. I am also forced to say
> that I am very much likely to do it again in the future when
> confronted with the same sort of remarks and behavior from another
> citizen. In other words, I am guilty of the "but he did it first"
> rule and the "I won't apologize until he does" rule of schoolyard
> behavior. What can I say, dear cousin, I'm a big kid who lives by
> the Parrothead philosophy of "I'm growing older but not up!"
> With affection and respect,
>
> Flavi Galeri
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17521 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Salvete Quirites; et sale, tribune Luci Didi Gemine.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

> However, as you have requested for more questions, I'l make them
> not only to you but once more, all Consular candidates, including
> Salix Astur and Moravia Aventina.
>
> - I have heard of Local Groups (A great idea indeed!) and some ways
> to make Nova Roma more international. What kind of legislation is
> needed, if so, to achieve such things?

So far, we already have a law that regulates local groups. I would
like to actually *create* those local groups, convincing our citizens
to join together under this new concept. And I intend to do it
through example as well, by creating a local group in my own
hometown.

This exercise should also serve to proof the existing legislation on
local groups. If, after giving it a try, we think that it needs to be
adjusted or fixed, then we will adjust it or fix it :-).

As for the "internationalisation" of Nova Roma, I would like to have
an open and constructive debate with our citizens, and particularly
with those citizens that have some experience in these matters. After
that, we will decide a certain course of action, that will probably
include filing the necessary documents to register Nova Roma in
several places (what we need to discuss is in *which* places).

> - In a more general way, what should be the future of Nova Roma not
> only for next year but forecoming years? Nova Roma is five years
> old, but that is almost nothing. What could be the ideas to
> paviment the way for future Consuls? (I don't mean that in a
> restrictive way, of course :-))

If I were elected consul, I would like to be the first consul of Nova
Roma that spent more time arranging affairs connected to actual
*activities* (local groups, real life religious activities,
sodalitates activities, education...) than discussing things on this
main list.

That does not mean that I am not ready to discuss things with the
citizenry; on the contrary, I intend to take a very open and
transparent approach towards the ways our plans are prepared and
implemented. My own political experience in Nova Roma has taught me
that many eyes see more than just two, and that sometimes the
citizens of Nova Roma come up with excellent ideas if asked.

I would like to set a new trend of making politics in Nova Roma,
based in the open discussion of subjects, in constructive criticism
of ideas and in the enthusiasm of our citizenry. I am not interested
in perpetuating factional struggle; I want Nova Roma to grow, to
improve, and all our energy must be spent in growing and improving.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17522 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsements for Praetor
Salvete Quirites,

I Have looked over the candidates for Praetor. Two of the Candidates,
Marcus Arminius Maior and Decimus Iunius Silanus, have served Nova Roma
as Propraetors. Think of what that term means, "acting as a Praetor". In
addition to acting as a Praetor, Marcus Arminius is serving Nova Roma as
a Senator. Decimus Iunius took over a Provincia that was in decline
after being abandoned by two consectuive governors and has done an
outstanding job of returning Britannia to being an active vibrant
province while acting as it's Praetor.

Marcus Arminius Maior and Decimus Iunius Silanus are clearly the most
experienced, and the best qualified candidates for Praetor, and I
recommend that you elect them.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17523 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: APPOINTMENT of PROPRAETOR for HIBERNIA PROVINCIA
M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS QVIRITIBVS S.P.D.

AVETE PATRES ET CONSCRIPTI, CIVES ET PERIGRINI

I have the great honour to confirm my appointment as PROPRAETOR of
HIBERNIA PROVINCIA. I am at once humbled at the the trust and faith
that the Roman people have placed in me and extremely priviledged to
to have this great honour and opportunity bestowed on me, the least
worthy, by the Senate and People of Rome.

I, for my part, shall endeavour to serve with wisdom, humility,
impartiality, diligence, honour, devotion to duty and with
distinction. I hope to add these qualities to the virtues of PIETAS<
DIGNITAS,AEQVITAS, HONESTAS ET VERITAS.

Although, I have not had the opportunity to consult the AVSPICES nor
the HARVSPICES it is my fervant hope and belief that the gods will
smile upon this day, HIBERNIA, all HIBERNII, bless my propraetorship
and, of course, our RES PVBLICA. I humbly ask great IVPPITER and
Lugh to guide me.

The establishment of HIBERNIA as a province in her own right and now
my appointment as her PROPRAETOR augurs well for the health of our
RES PVBLICA.

As PROPRAETOR of HIBERNIA may my first act be to call all Hibernians
to contact me, as I will them so that we may begin the work that lies
ahead?

Certainly, my celebrations of LARENTALIA ET SATVRNALIA all the more
enjoyable.

Finally, may I thank the Senate and People of Rome, honourable
NORICVS and our esteemed senior CONSVL QVINTILIANVS and honourable
SILANVS (once again!!) for his encouragement.

VALETE


M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
PROPRAETOR of HIBERNIA

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE

"VERITAS LVX MEA"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17524 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Re censor campaign
A. Apollonius Cordus to Flavia Luccila Merula and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I wouldn't use the words 'jolly romp' but I'd hate
> to see posts
> restricted purely to issues.

Not only would I go along with what you say about this
(which I've snipped), but I'd like to add that in this
case - the campaign for the office of Censor, an
office which includes responsibility for the moral
wellbeing of the republic - the personal character of
the candidates is and should be a central issue.
Examining and discussing the candidates' characters,
therefore, is just the same as sticking to the issues.
:)

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17525 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Declaration as candidate for Aedile Curule
M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS SPD

I guess somebody could wonder and need some explanation about my withdrawal
as candidate for the Quaestor position and presentation as Aedile Curule.


Everything happened in a very short time after the withdrawal of the person
with whom I planned a close collaboration in case we were both elected in
the respective positions.
Then the Magna Mater project's very first step was approved by the Senate
(use of the Aedilian fund), just a few hours before.
At that moment I felt like I could run the race as Aedile due both these
not planned (by me) conditions.
So, below in the Post Scriptum my declaration! it is more or less the same
I presented some days ago. The substance is the same: Nova Roma need this
project to be known in the academic world and act in the real world on a
real monument.

On the other hand, it will be a pleasure to acquit the traditional Aedile's
duties:

- organizing ludi even more enjoyable
- analyzing the historical function of the aedile (especially for the justice
and trade competences)

Let me thank here also all the Senators who approved the use of the Aedilian
fund for this project. And thank also the others who disagreed but still
suggested useful advice to improve that.
Thank you very much patres.

And, of course, many thanks to whom has expressed on this list his endorsment
for me.


valete

Marcus Iulius Perusianus ****for Aedile Curule****
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

PS.
M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS S P D

Cives it's a honor for me to announce my candidacy as Quaestor for the year
2757 AVC.

I am 35 years old, Roman, Italian and a Novaroman patrician since 11
January 2002. Outside Nova Roma I am a project manager in a software house,
owned by a national bank. I have a University diploma in Statistics and
I've been a soldier for three years (Lieutenant in the Italian army).

This is a brief curriculum vitae in Nova Roma:

2755 - Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae
2756 - Legatus Internis Rebus Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Historicus Primus of Cohors Aedilis Curulis
- Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae
- Scriba Curatoris Differum for The Eagle

In this personal page I've put all the information to know better who I
am in Nova Roma and what I have done in the past two years:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius


Why do I think I can be the right person as a Aedile Curule?
A Novaroman sees in the Cursus Honorum the better way to express his
dedication to Rome and Her ideals.
Some of you could witness that, whenever I offered my help, I was able to
organize games during the ludi, write articles on regular basis, study and
publish detailed reports on many different topics, either inside or outside
my province.

But let me explain another perspective:
as Scriba ad Historiam first, and then as Scriba Historicus Primus , I have
followed the Magna Mater project from the very beginning, working for our
Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (as Curule Aedile for 2755) and Franciscus
Apulus Caesar (current year).

Thanks to the possibility to visit the Temple and, why not, thanks to my
competence, I have fullfilled many duties the project needed.

To whom is not concerned about this, during these last two years I have
produced detailed reports on the Temple of Cybele and its bureaucratic situation,
going on the Palatine hill several times (last time it was just 15 days
ago) and meeting important people.
Next year we need to develop a close collaboration with them! It is the
chance Nova Roma has to hurl its name in the scholar world and make something
with a living project on a real Roman monument! Again, this means Nova Roma
to be known in the academic environment.

As a Aedile I promise to follow the Magna Mater project at best, myself
a person with a two years experience on this topic, and offer my job to
Nova Roma for the goal we are aiming.
Things will be even better, as I am moving back to my beloved city, Rome,
and could have personal contact with these sholars and managers on a regular
basis.
(see the Post Scriptum below for more information****).

This is why I think I should be a Aedile Curule for year 2757, and invite
you all to vote for me.

Of course any of you could send here or privately questions and to have
information. It will be my pleasure to answer them all.

M IVL PERVSIANVS
PS
****This last period was much more fruitful: I met D.ssa Irene Iacopi,
chief of the Roman Forum and Palatine archeological areas; one month later
I met Prof. Patrizio Pensabene of the University of Rome. With both of them
have concluded generic agreements and shared useful ideas to begin a collaboration
in the future.
One word more for Prof.Pensabene, an excellent scholar and the best person
about the Southwestern side of the Palatine hill, the very place where the
temple stands. He was pleased to see someone like us, Nova Roma, so eager
to offer help for a topic so dear to him. As Franciscus Apulus Caesar said
here lately, now we have the possibility to enter into the world of the
first University of Rome "La Sapienza" and with Soprintendenza Archeologica
di Roma, the most important public manager in term of number of Roman monuments.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17526 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
A. Apollonius Cordus to Praetor Cn. Salix Astur and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I'm afraid I must advise you not to expect answers to
these questions.

Over the last year or so I've carried on a lively and
entertaining private correspondence with Senator
Fabius Maximus, but I have noticed that whenever I ask
him an uncomfortable question, or say something
challenging to him, he tends to break off abruptly,
without explanation, and not renew contact for months.

In my experience the best way to ensure that you
receive a reply from this gentleman is to avoid asking
him difficult questions. ;)

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17527 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Vetos (was Re: Answers of Arminius Faustus)
Salve Faustus,

I enjoyed your response very much.

<I myself wonder that a Tribune must have not to think twice or been
<afraid to giving a veto. A mistaken veto can be easily removed, but a
<Law... oh my. And it should make the others magistrates more vigilant
<on their proposals. The turmoil of many vetos on the starting, would
<make the other magistrates better.

This is why the recent law written by my colleague Sceptius (the Lex Sceptia) passed by the Comitia
Plebis Tributa is excellent. When they declare intercessio a Tribune must now *by law* give the
precise reason for their veto citing exactly what law or what article in the Consitution is being
violated by a proposed lex or edicta .This 'forces' the Tribunes to act unbiasedly and to keep their
emotions and personal opinions out of their decision to veto. The Tribunes of course normally should
be doing that anyway, but this new law spells it out, just in case we ever did hae a Tribune in
office who wants to veto proposals soley because he doesn't like that particular magistrate etc.
etc.

Declaring intercessio is not something fun to do and it is a 'power' that is never ever to be taken
lightly. So I am glad to see on this list that you as well as many of our Tribune candidates realize
this before they are even elected into this important office!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17528 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Endorsement for Censor
Salvete Quirites,

Of the two candidates for Censor there is no doubt which one is the most
experienced, Quintus Fabius Maximus has held every office in Nova Roma
save Censor, a record that his Gensmate can't begin to match. Quintus
Fabius has also shown his ability to function without a large staff, a
key point to consider for a job that involves dealing with the personal
information of Nova Roma's citizens.

I Will admit that Quintus Fabius isn't exactly the most tactful person
in Nova Roma, but he has shown a willingness to communicate with Nova
Roma's citizens over the years that is absent from an opponent who
relies on his staff for this function.

There is also the matter of challenging not just a Gensmate, but
entering a contest against your own Paterfamilias. Caseo Fabius has
shown an utter disregard for Roman traditions by doing this, and hasn't
bothered informing Nova Roma's citizens why he is flouting our traditions.

Quintus Fabius Maximus is by far the most qualified candidate for
Censor, I recommend that you elect him.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17529 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Consul
Salve Drusus,

> The other two candidates are more evenly matched, but Diana Morivia
> Aventina's service as a Tribune of the Plebs gives her the edge. A
> Tribune of the Plebs presides over a Comitia, drafts laws, and presides
> over elections, some of the duties that a Consul is called on to
> perform. Her service as a Tribune allowed Diana Morivia to observe the
> Senate this past year and become familiar with the protocols of a body
> she will be expected to lead. I'm not in full agreement with all of
> Diana Morivia's political views but I have no doubts about her being the
> second most qualified candidate for the position. I Recommend that you
> elect Diana Morivia Aventina as your Consul.

Thanks! Un-expected support is always a pleasant surprise and if elected I will do my best to prove
that your support of me was warranted!
Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17530 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Here's another little question while I wait for your
answers to the first three:

If you are worried that Fabius Quintilianus would
appoint an excessively large staff if elected Censor,
why don't you *ask him* how many assistants he would appoint?

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17531 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: APPOINTMENT of PROPRAETOR for HIBERNIA PROVINCIA
Salve Marcus Calidius Gracchus!

Congratulations on your appointment as Propraetor of Hibernia! I can't think of anyone better suited
for the position than you! (A separate thought which popped into my head is that I bet that you have
one of those nice Hibernian accents too :-)

<Although, I have not had the opportunity to consult the AVSPICES nor
<the HARVSPICES it is my fervant hope and belief that the gods will
<smile upon this day, HIBERNIA, all HIBERNII, bless my propraetorship
<and, of course, our RES PVBLICA. I humbly ask great IVPPITER and
<Lugh to guide me.

Since you have remembered the Gods in your very first post as Propraetor, and have humbly asked them
for your guidance, I sincerely believe that they are indeed smiling upon this day!

And I want to say good luck in the elction for Plebeian Aedile-- you'd make a fine one!

Vale,
Diana Moravia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17532 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
Salvete omnes.

> > When I first became a citizen Nova Roma was involved in a bitter
> > political fight over the Gender/Name edict which was later
passed into > > law. I Did not and do not support this policy.
During the fight over > > that policy (It in no way deserves the
name of a debate) I quickly > > became disgusted by the tactics that
some who opposed that policy were > > employing, smears and personal
attacks. I Defended the people who were > > supporting a policy I
disagreed with against people who's position on > > that edict was
closer to my own.

SCEPTIVS: Well, Sicinius Drusus, I think then that your action is
not to support your own ideas but the others if they are bitterly
attaqued. Then, if someone whose ideas would be different from yours
but (As an example) is using this feature of you to drive a veto on
something you don't agree, but is a request of some citizen who is
bitterly under attack, I ask you what would you do (And of course,
you don't have to know (s)he is using such feature of your
personality). What I mean is that, as far as I believe, you can
defend someone's idea if you agree and at the same time defend
other's freedom for speech. :-)

> > Last year the subject of Gens Reform came up, and with it a
series of > > personal attacks against the Paterfamilias of Cornelia
and smears > > leveled against his entire Gens. I don't care for the
way they choose to > > set up their Gens and would prefer that they
do so on a more historic> > basis, but I defended their right to
retain their present structure> > until they decide to change it,
and defended them against the personal> > attacks leveled against
them.

SCEPTIVS: Candidate, I feel something is incoherent on that. If you
don't care about it, but you would prefer a historical view, and at
the same time you defend them on retaining it... well, I feel lost.
I see a deep argument but not a straight, coherent policy. Forgive
me if I missed something. :-)


> > Please indulge my curiosity; is this really your policy
>
>
> The Tribunes Office was created in Antiquita to defend the Rights
of the > Plebs. Defending Rights is a key part of the job, my
policy on freedom > of speach can be summed up in a famous quote:
>
> ``I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
your > right to say it''
> (Evelyn Beatrice Hall, commonly misattributed to Voltaire)

SCEPTIVS: I support that, but then I don't really see the point in
exclude this from the own support of a specific policy.

However, thank you for sharing your political views of Nova Roma and
your intentions if elected. :-)


vale ben in pace deorum,
L·DIDIVS·GEMINUS·SCEPTIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17533 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Censor Campaign QFM comments
Salve Cordus,

> So if these are the 22 people you mean then I suggest
> you withdraw your comment lest you make 17 sudden
> enemies!

I hope that you are teasing!! Actually I think you are. If not then: Ouch! 17 'enemies' because Ser.
Equitius Mercurius made one statement? Hmm, that's kind of announcing in a big way that the Cohors
sticks together against anyone who disagrees with one of them because I sincerely doubt that 17
people would all unilaterally decide that Ser. Equitius' words were 'enemy' making material!

Ouch again! I'm now thinking the very unpleasant thought that I have 22 'enemies' in Nova Roma.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17534 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to A. Apollonius Cordus. Salve.

Don't expect an answer back on this question. I asked the very same question in an earlier post and he skirted the issue by not answering it & accusing me (and others) of political intimidation. Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17535 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Salvete omnes

Senator, I can't comment any further cuestion as far as your quick
answer is more than enough for me. I think yours would be the best
Consulship we could have. I hope you'll be elected then. :-)

vale bene,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et sale, tribune Luci Didi Gemine.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
> > However, as you have requested for more questions, I'l make them
> > not only to you but once more, all Consular candidates,
including
> > Salix Astur and Moravia Aventina.
> >
> > - I have heard of Local Groups (A great idea indeed!) and some
ways
> > to make Nova Roma more international. What kind of legislation
is
> > needed, if so, to achieve such things?
>
> So far, we already have a law that regulates local groups. I would
> like to actually *create* those local groups, convincing our
citizens
> to join together under this new concept. And I intend to do it
> through example as well, by creating a local group in my own
> hometown.
>
> This exercise should also serve to proof the existing legislation
on
> local groups. If, after giving it a try, we think that it needs to
be
> adjusted or fixed, then we will adjust it or fix it :-).
>
> As for the "internationalisation" of Nova Roma, I would like to
have
> an open and constructive debate with our citizens, and
particularly
> with those citizens that have some experience in these matters.
After
> that, we will decide a certain course of action, that will
probably
> include filing the necessary documents to register Nova Roma in
> several places (what we need to discuss is in *which* places).
>
> > - In a more general way, what should be the future of Nova Roma
not
> > only for next year but forecoming years? Nova Roma is five years
> > old, but that is almost nothing. What could be the ideas to
> > paviment the way for future Consuls? (I don't mean that in a
> > restrictive way, of course :-))
>
> If I were elected consul, I would like to be the first consul of
Nova
> Roma that spent more time arranging affairs connected to actual
> *activities* (local groups, real life religious activities,
> sodalitates activities, education...) than discussing things on
this
> main list.
>
> That does not mean that I am not ready to discuss things with the
> citizenry; on the contrary, I intend to take a very open and
> transparent approach towards the ways our plans are prepared and
> implemented. My own political experience in Nova Roma has taught
me
> that many eyes see more than just two, and that sometimes the
> citizens of Nova Roma come up with excellent ideas if asked.
>
> I would like to set a new trend of making politics in Nova Roma,
> based in the open discussion of subjects, in constructive
criticism
> of ideas and in the enthusiasm of our citizenry. I am not
interested
> in perpetuating factional struggle; I want Nova Roma to grow, to
> improve, and all our energy must be spent in growing and improving.
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17536 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> Here's another little question while I wait for your
> answers to the first three:
>
> If you are worried that Fabius Quintilianus would
> appoint an excessively large staff if elected Censor,
> why don't you *ask him* how many assistants he would appoint?

The Consul isn't exactly known for communicating with people outside his
inner circle. He has communicated through his staff all year, and his
staff members have made it plain that his "right" to appoint as many
people as he feels like is more important than citizens right to
privacy. As far as I'm concerned he has made his views known through his
usual means of communication.

If his views differ from those of his staff he is welcome to state them
in this forum.

L. Sicinius Drusus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17537 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Salvete Quirites; et salve, A. Apolloni.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Praetor Cn. Salix Astur and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I'm afraid I must advise you not to expect answers to
> these questions.
>
> Over the last year or so I've carried on a lively and
> entertaining private correspondence with Senator
> Fabius Maximus, but I have noticed that whenever I ask
> him an uncomfortable question, or say something
> challenging to him, he tends to break off abruptly,
> without explanation, and not renew contact for months.
>
> In my experience the best way to ensure that you
> receive a reply from this gentleman is to avoid asking
> him difficult questions. ;)

But the censor of Nova Roma must be prepared to answer difficult
questions. Questions about morality are never easy, and morality is
part of the duties of our censores.

Besides that, I think that a censor must show "a willingness to
communicate with Nova Roma's citizens", as Senator L. Sicinius Drusus
has stated in his latest message of support to Senator Q. Fabius
Maximus' candidacy:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17528
Not answering that legitimate question of mine does not seem to me
like "a willingness to communicate with Nova Roma's citizens".

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17538 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Let Us Speak to the Ages
Picture for a moment: Perhaps a disabled old soldier perusing the web
in search of some history. Perhaps a student whose heart is stirred
by the deeds of great men. Perhaps a reflective sort who feels the
first stirring that there may be profound truths in what is
termed 'mythology'. These people search the web for 'Ancient Rome'.

And THIS is what they find? I need not digress!

Let us reflect that all we speak or write in the name of Rome is
spoken to the ages, and that the heritage of Rome, for which good men
died, is a weighty thing indeed.

Are you a bunch of frat boys in dyed purple bedsheets whose sense of
honor both begins and ends on the computer keyboard?

When was the time you shook an old soldiers hand? There is where
Rome is to be found. I am advising a young friend that he spend less
time 'lurking' NR and do volunteer work at a veterans' hospital to
learn what it means to be Roman.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17539 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus
Salve bene Cousin Flavi!

The Gentleman's spelling errors have been pointed out by others, dear Cousin! No offense, but I don't think your definition for "Dilvulge" is ever going to make it into the Dictionary as a neologism. ;-)

Now, your irritation at not getting a direct answer to a direct question - that's a legitimate gripe. If you feel that the gentleman is evading your question, then a more appropriate response would be "Perhaps you misunderstood: I was asking THIS" using small words and simple sentence structure so 'misunderstanding' is all but impossible. Long rambling rants are all too easy to pick the "point of entry" of one's choice and make hash out of the other fellow's question - which is what he did to you!
Welcome to Politics. Politicians obfuscate when they don't have an answer, except the exceptional ones who admit they don't have an answer and promise to get back to to - in which case the friendly "I'm still waiting..." is perfectly in order.

An error, by definition, is not deliberate. If it happens a second time, perhaps re-training is in order, and even after the first time an apology is in order. We are all human, and we don't want to discourage Volunteering for Government service. It was only deliberate acts that I was referring to as "sack-worthy" - those must NEVER become acceptable behaviour. Even the klutz who seems untrainable but means well can usually be found some other task more in keeping with their abilities. The issue, as I understood the Hon.Drusus to mean it, was with those who deliberately leak information, not the occassional human error. Thank you for clarifying that - it was a question of semantics: Divulge implies deliberate action, accidental release does not. As Drusus was only referrring to those who "divulge" he clearly understands that distinction.

Intimidation is a serious issue. As this is the Main List we are talking about, it is part of the Public Record. If L.S.Drusus can provide an example or a date I can look it up to verify it. The only attempted act of this sort that I know of personally was the 5 on 1 pile up the other day, which was out of line. Perhaps he can cite others. As for asking - even privately - for the name of a person who had complained of such conduct, I afraid that this is not acceptable even privately: It would require a breach of a personal confidence. I don't do it, and don't tolerate it in others: What was written in Private must remain in Private - Period! Please don't ask him to violate a confidence. Do not violate any confidences yourself. I'm a real stickler on this, okay?

Now, now, Cuz - don't play word games with me when I'm being serious (although the Hellene in me welcomes it gladly at any other time! :=D ): You know I wasn't referring to a pause to think about a response. I was speaking about being made to feel reluctant to Post a Reply due to a concerted effort to abuse the person after their previous Reply. I am glad that you agree that such behaviour is wrong, and with e-mail it would be easy enough to arrange via private communications addresssed to multiple people. That's what I was speaking of. Now, if someone's Post rankles half a dozen or a dozen private Citizens enough that they all Reply, that's another story - just a case of "great minds think alike." However, if half a dozen people do it all at once and are somehow considered to be in close association - say, the same office of Government for example - then it certainly does LOOK bad even if it wasn't planned. To avoid even the appearrance of impropriety (our Government should be as above reproach as humanly possible), then perhaps such Birds of a Feather - before flocking together - should flip a coin or draw lots & say - "Okay, it's YOUR turn to deal with so-and-so". See what I mean? When such people, in such quantities, begin to resemble a Chorus in their concerted Replies it certainly LOOKS like it was planned, even if it wasn't. Oddly enough, to avoid the appear-rance of Collusion they may actually have to collude - to keep Silent! Except for one or two 'appointed spokesmen'. That is why politicians have Press Secretaries: To keep their Supporters from looking like a Mob!

By the way, your use of the Civil Rights Movement as an example was a poor choice: It WAS a case of Politcal and Coordinated Response! Your argument, in case you have forgotten, is that these Good Citizens were all Replying unprompted. The Civil Rights Movement DID gang up against Bigots - have you already forgotten the planned Sit Ins, the organized Marches? VERY well coordinated with a definite Leadership. YOU are saying everyone is acting individually. Don't confuse people, please!

Professors can intimidate because they are in charge of the Student's grades - this is not at all the same thing. Another poor example, Cuz, although I'm sorry you had to deal with such abusive people. I lucked out, with really good Professors.

I am saying, dear Cousin, that I do not EVER want to hear of a Citizen feeling Intimidated - NOT EVER!! No Intimidation is good because it actually lowers the moral value of the Good Cause you are striving for. If you cannot win on the merits of the isssues and the quality of your arguments alone, then you deserved to lose that round. Don't take it personally, just practice up on your Logic and your Public Speaking to prepare for the next time, but NEVER choose the "low road" of Intimidation - it is Immoral! It is an affront to the Immortal Gods, a disservice to your fellow Citizens, and lowers others' opinion of you.
I too have slipped up from time to time - and I always Apologize both Publically and Privately. It is the Gentlemanly thing to do to admit when you are wrong. As I have certain "flash points" that are becoming well known - Civility on the List, Defending Young People - I too am likely to exceed the bounds of decency at some point in the future too, so don't beat yourself up about
it, just try to do better and think before you send (I have learned a good way to avoid causing too much offense - and I have only just begun doing this recently after my recent embarrassment with my treatment of the fine Lady who is now a friend only because she could find it in her heart to forgive me, Agrippina) - is to READ your Post before you send it. Edit out the nasty bits.

Cousin, I too subscribe to the young-at-heart Philosophy: I'm a firm believer in what Tom Robbins said: "It's never too late to have a happy childhood!" - but let's try not to be childish about the future of our Republic, okay Cousin?

Your adopted Kinsman,
Servius Equitius


-----Original Message-----
From: "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
Sent: Dec 2, 2003 11:34 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A Response to my cousin Servius Equitius Troianus

<html><body>


<tt>
Flavius Galerius to his cousin, Servius Equitius Troianus. Salve.<BR>
<BR>
I am aware of the word 'divulge' and its meaning, good cousin, but <BR>
the word that Senator Drusus used was 'dilvulge' and I thought he <BR>
was being humorous (i.e., dilvulge translated as vulgar pickle).  On <BR>
closer examination, I realized that it was an error consistent with <BR>
his usual vocabulary/grammar and innate ability to answer direct <BR>
questions that are put to him by me.<BR>
<BR>
I did mean "consistently released confidential information" because <BR>
on more than one occasion, a magistrate or official accidentally hit <BR>
the wrong reply key and sent out information in a message that was <BR>
not meant for the general population.  This is a mistake which can <BR>
happen to anyone occasionally but is hardly worth getting sacked or <BR>
impeached for the one mistake.  However, any magistrate, scribe, or <BR>
accensus who did this more than once or twice would have likely <BR>
deliberately "consistently released confidential information" and <BR>
would deserve to be sacked, impeached, fired, banished, or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
On the question of intimidation by any political group or other <BR>
organization on the mainlist, it was implied that this had occurred <BR>
but there is no record of such on the mainlist records.  I asked the <BR>
person who made this statement to put me in touch with anyone who <BR>
had ever told him that they felt intimidated and I would privately <BR>
apologize for any of my personal actions or comments that had caused <BR>
them not to post.  It was not "...out of line" to attempt to <BR>
apologize to an individual who may have been intimidated by <BR>
something I might have posted.  It has been and is currently NEVER <BR>
my intent to intimidate someone in such a way as to make them stay <BR>
off the list.<BR>
<BR>
In the matter of hesitating to post in response to something that <BR>
one has read on the mainlist, it is quite normal to hesitate so you <BR>
can think out your response and measure that response properly.  I <BR>
have posted occasionally without thinking about the effect my <BR>
response might have on another person's feelings and have regretted <BR>
that I did not hesitate and think before posting.  You are correct <BR>
in saying that "...ganging up on people, it isn't decent EVER."  If <BR>
a group of citizens or members of a political organization were to <BR>
have read a post that they didn't like and then communicated among <BR>
themselves to launch a series of retalitory messages with the intent <BR>
to intimidate someone, then that is definitely wrong.  However, if <BR>
five different individuals just responded negatively to a slanderous <BR>
comment or unfounded insinuation that another individual posted, <BR>
then it is not "ganging up."  If that were the case, then the entire <BR>
Civil Rights Movement in US history is an example of ganging up <BR>
against bigots.<BR>
One person's response that makes a person hesitate (aka think, <BR>
consider, ponder) before they make a response CAN be interpreted as <BR>
a form of intimidation.  I found some college professors <BR>
intimidating but they intimitated me into thinking before I blurted <BR>
out something that could lead to my looking foolish.  Now if a large <BR>
man in a sharkskin suit was to lean into your face and say that if <BR>
you don't vote for such-and-such, you are going to regret it.  Now <BR>
that is the kind of intimidation that is totally wrong.  So, cousin, <BR>
I am saying that certain KINDS of intimidation are acceptable if <BR>
they can produce a positive action without forcible coercion.<BR>
Now I must eat some crow here because I am guilty of violating some <BR>
of the guidelines of the Edictum Praetoricium de Moderatione by not <BR>
disputing some public posts in private, calling another citizen <BR>
names, and making derogatory statements.  I am also forced to say <BR>
that I am very much likely to do it again in the future when <BR>
confronted with the same sort of remarks and behavior from another <BR>
citizen.  In other words, I am guilty of the "but he did it first" <BR>
rule and the "I won't apologize until he does" rule of schoolyard <BR>
behavior.  What can I say, dear cousin, I'm a big kid who lives by <BR>
the Parrothead philosophy of "I'm growing older but not up!"<BR>
With affection and respect,<BR>
<BR>
Flavi Galeri  <BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17540 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Answers of Equitius Marinus and more questions to the consular
Salvete quirites, et salve Luci Didi,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS replied to me:

[I had said, about using the Contio process more]
> I've already mentioned that I want to expand the use
> of the Contio so that it becomes a regularly scheduled
> formal political meeting in which all citizens
> have the opportunity to suggest new ideas and offer
> their opinions on my ideas and proposals. I will
> also make a particular effort to be available to
> all other magistrates, and most particularly the
> Plebian Tribunes, whenever they wish to discuss any
> matter bearing on Nova Roma with me.

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius replied:
> LDGS: I agree with you on that messure.

Thank you. The Romans of antiquity learned a lot about
making government work over the course of the centuries
that the Republic existed. I think this is one of those
practices that we can benefit by restoring their practice.
I know that the Optimates of old didn't like frequent
Contios, because the process was sometimes abused by
demagogues. But since we already have a pretty free
forum here where any would-be demagogue can carry on at
will, I see the additional risk of abuse while holding
Contio meetings to be slight.

> I just wonder if such thing is
> enough to encourage citizens to participate in the debates.

That's a very good question. We won't know until we try.
I personally think that it will, because we already have
a number of citizens who have a lot to offer, but are
limited in how they can effectively offer it.

> But is a good messure, candidate.

Again, thank you.

> And of course, your availability is a proof of your
> concern. Despite the fact that real life steals many
> time to us, of course.

Real Life has a way of doing that. There will be times
when I have to be away from Nova Roma for days on end.
But I will work with my consular colleague to make sure
they know what I'm doing, and coordinate with the other
senior magistrates so that I can be reached if there is
need.

[On passing proposed legislation to the other elected
magistrates and the tribunes for their review before it
is presented to the general populace.]

> LDGS: Bravo! This is what I plainly call cooperation.
> I mean, your messures are aimed to build in consense.
> It is a risk, however, because if your proposals are
> too many time delayed by comments it could halt your
> policies, couldn't it happen?

Yes, that is a risk. But it can be mitigated by providing a
"Please Reply By" date.

> I guess you'll manage it in a sensible way;

I intend to. I'm able to get US government managers to
answer my e-mails, so I think I can do the same with
the magistrates of Nova Roma.

> you also would set
> deadlines or scheduled dates of meeting. Just a suggestion. :-)

A very good one, and it's in keeping with my own intentions.

> LDGS:
> - I have heard of Local Groups (A great idea indeed!)
> and some ways to make Nova Roma more international.
> What kind of legislation is needed, if so, to
> achieve such things?

We don't need any more legislation to make it happen.
We just need people to start coming together and
forming their local groups. I've already seen a draft
charter for one local group, though I'm not going to
say where until it is officially announced by the
governor of that province. I expect several more
local groups are currently coming together.

What we need most to make local groups a reality is
leadership. If there is a reasonable concentration
of citizens living in fairly close proximity to each
other, then all it takes if for one to step up and
take charge of organizing a local group.

In my own province, I want to encourage citizens to
come together informally at first, just to have lunch
together on a weekend and talk about things Roman.
Once people start to meet each other, and talk about
things, I think we'll see local groups forming.

> - In a more general way, what should be the future of
> Nova Roma not only for next year but forecoming years?

We need to have goals. We already have several of
those. The Magna Mater project is an excellent long
term effort that will keep people busy for years.
The Aedilean Fund has the potential to bear some
significant fruit too. The people in the Sodalitas
Egressus keep coming up with ideas for public outreach
efforts, and we should examine all of those ideas
with an eye toward adopting the best. Of course we
have the Land Project, which gives us the long term
goal of acquiring a piece of property at least 108
acres in size where we can create a New Roma.

In my province of Mediatlantica, Tiberius Gallerius
Paulinus has come up with the idea of creating a
Library of Roman History and Culture. His plan is to
get each person in the province to donate one book a
year to the collection. I think it's a great idea,
and I've already picked out the book I'm going to
donate for the first year. Other provinces could
do similar things, and those libraries could all be
part of a network connected via Nova Roma.

The other thing we need to have is a thriving and
growing citizen base. That requires steady recruitment,
which we actually do pretty well, and good retention of
people once they're here. Retention has been a problem,
as you can see by looking at the census results and
noting that almost half of our members have lost contact.
We need to reengage our disaffected citizens, ask them
what we can do better to make Nova Roma what they had
hoped it would be, and do what we can to realize those
aspirations.

> Nova Roma is five years old, but that is almost nothing.

It's a good beginning. I'm pretty sure Romulus didn't
have 1000 people living inside the pomerium he'd plowed
after the first five years. We have made a good start,
but you're right that we have a long way to go.

> What could be the ideas to paviment the way for future
> Consuls? (I don't mean that in a restrictive way, of course :-))

I like your metaphor of pavement. Romans built roads.
They were the best roads in the world because the
builders took time to dig deep and lay a good roadbed.
It was hard work, and it was often nasty, muddy, wet
and cold work for the legionaries who built those roads.
But the work was worth it. The roads are still with us
today.

For the Consuls who come after me, I'll dig into the
problems of next year, getting all the way down to the
bottom of the issues. I'll give them a good bit of
road with a solid roadbed, aimed toward a future where
Nova Roma is a recognized cultural organization. I want
Nova Roma to be the premier name coming to the minds of
people everywhere when they think of things Roman.

The other roadwork we need to do is road repair. After
five years some of the work of our previous consuls is
showing wear, and careful repairs are called for. In
some cases we may need to dig down and reset the roadbed.
In others, just a little bit of effort to fill in the
cracks now will prevent things from getting worse.

What I want to bring to Nova Roman government most is the
idea of Continuous Process Improvement. It's an engineering
principle which says, basically, that no process is perfect
and that by studying the way any process works it's possible
to find ways to make it better. We have something good
here, and we can make it better.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17541 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius Drusus. Vale.

As it is traditional that the young should ask the old for wisdom, I would ask you if there is a lex in Nova Roma that forbids a kinsman in one gens from running against another or his paterfamilias from the same gens, even though one is of the sept of Maximus and one is of the sept of Quintilianus? Is there a written tradition in the mos maiorum or the virtues that forbids this? How is such an offense against the traditions of Ancient Rome for one kinsman to run against their mater or paterfamilias any different or reprehensible when in Ancient Rome women were forbidden to be in the Senate or even act as head of their gens? Are we to pick and choose what ancient traditions to honor when it is convienent to do so and ignore other traditions the rest of the time? Did you ask either of these two noble gentlemen from the gens Fabia whether they had discussed this matter between themselves? As a candidate for the Tribune of the Plebians and a Senator, these questions are being submitted to you publicly in the principal forum of communication in Nova Roma by a private Plebian citizen without political affiliations to you or either of the Censorial Candidates. Illustrious Senator, will you answer these questions with honesty, honor, and goodspeed? Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17542 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Salve Cordus,

> I should also - again when time allows, for there's no
> hurry - be grateful if you or one of your colleagues
> were to explain more fully what happened with item 4,
> which seems to have been subject to some sort of
> tribunician intervention.

Below is the email that I sent to the Senate regarding Item IV.
Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salve Senior Consul,

CFQ Said:
<I am sorry, but I don't agree. What I think is that the Senate needs is a Commission that tries to
<bring the _Senate_ closer to the
<People. The Commission should try to "build" an "alliance" between the Senate and the People, by
< informing (not about the decisons, but
<about what is going on in other ways and to a certain extent) and listen to the People. This isn't
<at all the task of the Tribunes.

Yes it is: IV.7.d: To be privy to the debates of the Senate, and keep the citizens informed as to
the subjects and results thereof, in such manner and subject to such restrictions as may be defined
by law;

From Item 4 "Its main tasks shall be to answer, as far as it may, questions from the public about
Senate procedures and debates; to provide points of contact for people wishing to approach the
Senate; to maintain the Senate's public profile and promote
understanding of its role in government; and to monitor the interaction of the Senate with the
public, recommending changes to the Consuls if
appropriate."

I find Item 4 unconstitutional and undermining the position of the Tribunes. The constitution
already assigns this function to the Tribunes even if it is not written is such detail as Item 4
is.
The citizens interpret IV.7.d the same way as I do judging by the many many emails that I have
received this year asking how the Senate works, asking for help, asking for info, asking to present
agenda items to the Senate etc. etc. I have *never* neglected to answer a citizen.

The only thing that prevented me from giving out too much information was the fear of breaking
Senate confidentiality. So I am curious as to how this Commission would effect Senate
confidentiality. Would item 4 then allow for example the Senators appointed to this Commission to
forward confidential emails from the Senate in the name of 'promoting understanding of its role in
government'?

It would be fine if item 4 would have been added to IV.7 of the Consitution because it would
clarify
the job that the Tribune's are already doing. If item 4 is passes you will turn the Tribune's into
a
bunch of robots who can only copy-paste Senate results and who can veto. The Tribunes who are the
representatives of the people to the Senate would be totally replaced by this commission.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17543 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
In short, Apollonius Cordus, this translates as 'no' the Illustrious
Senator did not ask the Illustrious Senior Consul; he merely
presumed.

F Gal Aur Sec
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
>
>
> A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
>
> > A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> > all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
> >
> > Here's another little question while I wait for your
> > answers to the first three:
> >
> > If you are worried that Fabius Quintilianus would
> > appoint an excessively large staff if elected Censor,
> > why don't you *ask him* how many assistants he would appoint?
>
> The Consul isn't exactly known for communicating with people
outside his
> inner circle. He has communicated through his staff all year, and
his
> staff members have made it plain that his "right" to appoint as
many
> people as he feels like is more important than citizens right to
> privacy. As far as I'm concerned he has made his views known
through his
> usual means of communication.
>
> If his views differ from those of his staff he is welcome to state
them
> in this forum.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17544 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
In a message dated 12/2/03 10:28:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:


> Over the last year or so I've carried on a lively and
> entertaining private correspondence with Senator
> Fabius Maximus, but I have noticed that whenever I ask
> him an uncomfortable question, or say something
> challenging to him, he tends to break off abruptly,
> without explanation, and not renew contact for months.
>
>
Hooo Boy, now that was baiting if I ever heard of it. Pray tell what
question did I bother not
to answer during our "entertaining private correspondence?" The last thing
we were discussing was the Brothers Gracchi and their communistic views. I
sent you my an answer, and you never responded, so I assumed we agreed to
disagree. I become involved with script changes to "Hannibal" after that.
To any citizen that has communicated to me privately. Have I ever failed to
give you an answer, ever? This includes my time as Curule Aedile, Quaestor,
Praetor Urbanus, Consul, and Proconsul of CAL. I always answer my private
mail. Even the personal attacks. Which I have been getting a lot of, recently.
I always find those most entertaining.
The only reason I am answering in the Forum was Apollonius' public
insinuation.

I don't work with potential suicide victims. My admiration for someone doing
such a thing hold no bounds. But, to stand for a Roman office while one
knows they will be so involved is not fair to the individual, the potential
victim, and the People. If I did do such work, my involvement with Rome would be
limited to that of privatis.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17545 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salve Romans

Could the Candidates for both Consul and Censor please inform me and the Citizens of Rome as to how many staff members they feel is the minimum and the maximum number that they will employ if elected to their respective offices .

Please be specific as to both numbers.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune and the
current magistrate with the second largest, But BEST staff in Nova Roma!!!! NO NO IN ALL THE KNOWN WORLD!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17546 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Statements of Sicinius Drusus as candidate
L. Didius Geminus Sceptius wrote:

>
>
> SCEPTIVS: Candidate, I feel something is incoherent on that. If you
> don't care about it, but you would prefer a historical view, and at
> the same time you defend them on retaining it... well, I feel lost.
> I see a deep argument but not a straight, coherent policy. Forgive
> me if I missed something. :-)

When I gained my Nova Roman citizenship I walked into a bitter fight,
one that resulted in Senators, Magistrates, Flamines, and an Augur
quitting Nova Roma in a mass resignation, all over a law that I thought
was bad policy, but certainly wasn't worth tearing Nova Roma apart over.
That is something that we NEVER need to repeat. Gens reform is something
that is worth attempting but it is NOT more important than Nova Roma,
nor are any of the other disputes we have had.

I Would like to repeal the Gens/Name Lex, but it isn't worth tearing
Nova Roma apart a second over. Hopefully in time we will reach the point
where that law can be eliminated, but until we reach that point I have
no intention of starting that war anew.

The same holds for Gens reform. That subject has the potential to be
even more devisive than the Gender/Name lex if it isn't handled right.
It isn't worth tearing Nova Roma apart. Nova Roma is more important than
the Gender/Name Lex, or Gens Reform.

There may be some key areas that are worth a fight that will drive Nova
Roma back to the situation that existed 3 years ago, but there a damn
few of them, something that all of us need to remember in the heat of a
political battle.

A Major fight that divides our citizens for years, that results in mass
resignations, that results in citizens leaving in disgust without
bothering to resign is NOT in Nova Roma's best interests, and there are
very few things that are worth that kind of a battle. Nova Roma is far
more important than most of the things her politicians argue over.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17547 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Historical precedents
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

[a lot, of which I'm only addressing a little]

> There is also the matter of challenging not just a Gensmate, but
> entering a contest against your own Paterfamilias. Caseo Fabius has
> shown an utter disregard for Roman traditions by doing this, and hasn't
> bothered informing Nova Roma's citizens why he is flouting our traditions.

While QFM is indeed paterfamilias of gens Fabia here
in Nova Roma, and thus holds paterfamilial potestas
over CFQ, that's not in keeping with the laws and
practices of Antiquity, at least so far as I understand
them. My reading of history tells me that once a Roman
was elected to his first magistracy -- usually as Quaestor --
he became 'sui generis' and was no longer subject to the
will of his paterfamilias.

The reason the Romans of Antiquity did this was to
prevent precisely the sort of situation we see here,
as well as to free magistrates from being under the
control of anyone who could legally compel them.

If we followed the practices of antiquity in this matter,
CFQ would have become sui generis when he first took up
magesterial duties. If not when he became propraetor of
Thule then certainly when he was elected Curule Aedile.

As I see the matter, this has more to do with revealing
a problem with our ahistoric gens system than it has
with a lack of pietas on CFQ's part.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17548 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: QUESTION FOR CFQ
Hello!!!
CFQ !!!!!!!!

You do read this list don't you?
You haven't bothered saying one word about the size of your staff
despite it being a subject on this list for days.

I'm asking you publicly and openly,

How many people will you appoint to your staff if you are elected Censor
and How many of them will have access to the database?

Drusus

Patrick D. Owen wrote:

> In short, Apollonius Cordus, this translates as 'no' the Illustrious
> Senator did not ask the Illustrious Senior Consul; he merely
> presumed.
>
> F Gal Aur Sec
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> >
> > > A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> > > all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
> > >
> > > Here's another little question while I wait for your
> > > answers to the first three:
> > >
> > > If you are worried that Fabius Quintilianus would
> > > appoint an excessively large staff if elected Censor,
> > > why don't you *ask him* how many assistants he would appoint?
> >
> > The Consul isn't exactly known for communicating with people
> outside his
> > inner circle. He has communicated through his staff all year, and
> his
> > staff members have made it plain that his "right" to appoint as
> many
> > people as he feels like is more important than citizens right to
> > privacy. As far as I'm concerned he has made his views known
> through his
> > usual means of communication.
> >
> > If his views differ from those of his staff he is welcome to state
> them
> > in this forum.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17549 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salve Tiberius Galerius,

You asked:
> Could the Candidates for both Consul and Censor
> please inform me and the Citizens of Rome as to
> how many staff members they feel is the minimum
> and the maximum number that they will employ if
> elected to their respective offices .

At minimum, one. Most likely, three. At most, six.
I'm not counting the Quaestor who will be assigned
to me in that number.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17550 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Thank You for that quick, clear and precise numbers.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates


Salve Tiberius Galerius,

You asked:
> Could the Candidates for both Consul and Censor
> please inform me and the Citizens of Rome as to
> how many staff members they feel is the minimum
> and the maximum number that they will employ if
> elected to their respective offices .

At minimum, one. Most likely, three. At most, six.
I'm not counting the Quaestor who will be assigned
to me in that number.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17551 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Security of the Census database
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> The Consul [...] has communicated through his staff all year

There are four, and only four, people on the Consul's
staff who are authorized to speak for him, and those
only on specific consular matters. I think you can
check the archives from last summer to find out who
they are (I'm one of them). None of us have been
authorized to speak for him on the matter of his
candidacy for Censor, and if he tried to delegate
that authority to me I would refuse it.

--
Marinus - Caput, Officina Iuris et Rei Politicae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17552 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| Below is the email that I sent to
| the Senate regarding Item IV.

Salve, Diana Moravia.

Are you a senator yourself? If not, where does the constitution give you
the right to interfere with, as opposed to be privy to, the debates of
the Senate? Do you feel that sharing a confidential part of a senate
debate, as opposed to the subject and result thereof, is the act of a
responsible magistrate? Do you often read only the parts of legislation
which serves your interests? Will you keep doing so as consul, should
you be elected?

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17553 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius
> Drusus. Vale.
>
> As it is traditional that the young should ask the old for wisdom, I
> would ask you if there is a lex in Nova Roma that forbids a kinsman in
> one gens from running against another or his paterfamilias from the
> same gens, even though one is of the sept of Maximus and one is of the
> sept of Quintilianus?

No there is no Nova Roman Lex

> Is there a written tradition in the mos maiorum or the virtues that
> forbids this?

Yes it's called respecting the postion of the Pater, and this tradition
holds when the Filis is Sui Iuris.

> How is such an offense against the traditions of Ancient Rome for one
> kinsman to run against their mater or paterfamilias any different or
> reprehensible when in Ancient Rome women were forbidden to be in the
> Senate or even act as head of their gens?

There are Religous implications to having Women as heads of a Gens that
are being ignored in the name of political correctness.

> Are we to pick and choose what ancient traditions to honor when it is
> convienent to do so and ignore other traditions the rest of the time?

That seems to be the case in Nova Roma where we have more than a few
citizens who are ready to toss aside any part of Roma they don't
consider modern.

> Did you ask either of these two noble gentlemen from the gens Fabia
> whether they had discussed this matter between themselves?

Yes, I asked QFM, CFQ didn't bother informing him he was considering a
run for an office that QFM had allready announced for.

> As a candidate for the Tribune of the Plebians and a Senator, these
> questions are being submitted to you publicly in the principal forum
> of communication in Nova Roma by a private Plebian citizen without
> political affiliations to you or either of the Censorial Candidates.
> Illustrious Senator, will you answer these questions with honesty,
> honor, and goodspeed? Vale.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17554 From: Caivs Ivlivs Barcinvs Ciconivs Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Posseion new Propraetor Provincia of Mexico
CAIUS IULIUS BARCINUS CICONIUS SENATO POPVLOQVE NOVAROMAE S.P.D.

Ego, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez
Ibáñez) hoc ipso facto sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere
et semper pro Novae Romae Populo atque Senatu agere. Ut Novae Romae
magistratus ego Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius(Fco Javier Martinez
Ibáñez) Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae
temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita
persequi.

Ego, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius(Fco Javier Martínez
Ibáñez) Romanam religionem favere et defendere IVRO ut Novae Romae
Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut eius status publicae
religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat. Praeterea ego, Caius Iulius
Barcinus Ciconius (Javier Martínez) IVRO quam optime fungi officium
muneris Propraetoris
Provinciae Mexicaniae.

Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque
deabus et eorum voluntate et favore, munus Propraetoris Provinciae
Hispaniae ACCIPIO una cum iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia
quae meum munus comportat.

In Mexico Provincia A.D. IV Dec. MMDCCLVI a.u.c.

----------------------------------------


I, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez) do
hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act
always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova
Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco
Javier Martínez Ibáñez) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of
Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my
public and private life.

I, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez) swear
to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of
Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its
status as the State Religion.

I, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez)swear
to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez)
further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the
office of Propraetor Provinciae Mexicaniae to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Propraetor Mexicaniae and all the
rights, privileges, obligations,and responsibilities attendant
thereto.

In Mexico Provincia A.D. IV Dec. MMDCCLVI a.u.c.
Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez)

Mexico Provincia.

------------------------------------------


Yo, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez) por
la presente JURO solemnemente defender el honor de Nova Roma, y
actuar siempre por los intereses de la gente y el Senado de Nova
Roma.
Como magistrado de Nova Roma, yo,Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco
Javier Martínez Ibáñez) JURO honrar a los Dioses y las Diosas de
Roma en mis actos públicos, y perseguir las Virtudes Romanas en mi
vida pública y privada.

Yo, Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez),
JURO mantener y defender la Religio Romana así como la Religión del
Estado de Nova Roma y JURO nunca actuar de una manera que amenazaría
su condición de Religión del Estado.
Yo,Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius (Fco Javier Martínez Ibáñez) JURO
proteger y defender la Constitución de Nova Roma.
Yo, NOMBRE NOVAROMANO (NOMBRE MACRONACIONAL) además JURO
cumplir las obligaciones y responsabilidades del cargo de Propraetor
Mexicanae al maximo de mis capacidades.

Para mi honor como Ciudadano de Nova Roma, y en presencia de los
Dioses y las Diosas de la gente Romana y por su voluntad y favor,
ACEPTO el puesto de Propraetor Mexicanae todos los derechos,
privilegios, obligaciones y responsabilidades que el cargo comporta.


En la Provincia novorromana de Mexico A.D. IV Dec. MMDCCLVI a.u.c.




Caius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius
Provincia Mexico
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17555 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
So what foreign (non-English) languages do you speak?
Can you provide an answer to a simple question?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/2/03 10:28:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@y... writes:
>
>
> > Over the last year or so I've carried on a lively and
> > entertaining private correspondence with Senator
> > Fabius Maximus, but I have noticed that whenever I ask
> > him an uncomfortable question, or say something
> > challenging to him, he tends to break off abruptly,
> > without explanation, and not renew contact for months.
> >
> >
> .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17556 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salvete Quirites; et salve, T. Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> Could the Candidates for both Consul and Censor please inform me
> and the Citizens of Rome as to how many staff members they feel is
> the minimum and the maximum number that they will employ if elected
> to their respective offices .
>
> Please be specific as to both numbers.

What you are asking is quite difficult, T. Galeri. One never knows
what sudden needs might arise during next year, so it is difficult to
limit oneself to a certain number without taking the risk to be
forced to break one's word.

Having said this, I guess that every person has a different style of
working. I have to admit that I could never be effective with a staff
as large as yours, for example; I'd spend too much time just trying
to coordinate everyone (but that is just *me*; I am not saying that
you or anyone else do not have the right to work with as many people
as you want). So I guess that my staff would be smaller than yours.
*Far* smaller (I have just counted the members of your official
staff, and, if I have no mistakes, you have *twenty* people working
for you! Whoa! And for no money! How did you convince them?).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17557 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: vote for Gn. Salix Astur & Saturninus; from a new civis
Salvete Quirites;
as the elections come up my post is directed especially for new
cives. As a new and utterly unimportant new citizen I had the
pleasure of taking "Introduction to Nova Roma" with Gnaeus Salix
Astur and Caius Curius Saturninus as my praeceptores.
What a wonderful experience! they filled all of us with real love
for Nova Roma and wonderful suggestions of how to organize and meet
in real time. I made a lot of friends in that course and learned
about the wonderful courses at Academia Thules because of these two
devoted Nova Romans.
So I urge all new cives who don't have a clue to vote for Gnaeus
Salix Astur and Caius Curius Saturninus, they have your interests at
heart and only make Nova Roma more wonderful.
optime valete Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17558 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Kristoffer From wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> | Below is the email that I sent to
> | the Senate regarding Item IV.
>
> Salve, Diana Moravia.
>
> Are you a senator yourself? If not, where does the constitution give you
> the right to interfere with, as opposed to be privy to, the debates of
> the Senate?

I Presented this matter to the Senate on behalf of the Tribune,
something I'm willing to do on behalf of any Tribune of the Plebs
current or future.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17559 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: vote for Gn. Salix Astur & Saturninus; from a new civis
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Pomponia Fabia.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites;
> as the elections come up my post is directed especially for new
> cives. As a new and utterly unimportant new citizen I had the
> pleasure of taking "Introduction to Nova Roma" with Gnaeus Salix
> Astur and Caius Curius Saturninus as my praeceptores.
> What a wonderful experience! they filled all of us with real love
> for Nova Roma and wonderful suggestions of how to organize and meet
> in real time. I made a lot of friends in that course and learned
> about the wonderful courses at Academia Thules because of these two
> devoted Nova Romans.
> So I urge all new cives who don't have a clue to vote for Gnaeus
> Salix Astur and Caius Curius Saturninus, they have your interests
> at heart and only make Nova Roma more wonderful.
> optime valete Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

Thank you very much for your kind words, Pomponia.

I have fond memories of our time together in the Academia course. I
have to say that teachers also receive much in the act of teaching,
and that that course was a wonderful experience for me as well.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17560 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17561 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: All That Is Rome!
This was expressed very well. A lot of you here are not to the Roman mindset
yet. I say that with no insult. You simply superimposed your American,
Italian, German, Hispanic values over those that are Roman or what you think is
Roman. This is a very explosive subject. Everybody thinks they know what is or
is not Roman. And this is what causes such huge problems. The closest
people who seem to grasp Romanitas are the English.
I have no idea why. Perhaps, because they too had an Empire held together by
force and trade once. Perhaps because they have been emulating Romans since
those early days after Medway when the British Celts started to submit to
Roman authority.

I don't mind answering questions about my qualifications for office according
to the honorum and constitution. I do mind when the questions not on topic.
When they have nothing to do with office I stand for, but instead just in
attempt to make me either lose my cool, or trip me up so later posters can say
"you said this then and you say this now!"
I understand that this be not on politics but just personal dislikes. Too
bad. I can do nothing about that. You either like me or you do not. The rest
is in the hands of
the Gods.

Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17562 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
<< In a message dated 12/1/03 5:18:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
hucke@... writes:


Wrong. They are not directed against "anyone"; they are directed
against you, and you are certainly not just "anyone". You have heaped
scorn upon the works of the current consulship since its beginning -
and now you dare to pretend that the attacks on you are against
"anyone", or are unfounded, or unjustified?


Censor Octavius,
So if L. Sicinius Drusus does not like what he sees happening in Rome, he may
make no complaint? He cannot criticize? He cannot be a Roman? Let's face
it, if the Gauls, Germans, or Punics were invading Italia tomorrow, we would
all drop ourpetty squabbles and join our commands.
The problem is we h ave no outside enemy to join against, hence we continue
to fight over what is best for the Republic and the People. Sicinius Drusus
has earned the right to criticize, he is Senator and a Pontiff. He has a stake
in Rome like the rest of us. He has every right to his vision as you to yours
o' Censor. If the shoe was on the other foot I'm sure you would be just as
vocal. If not, you wouldn't be very Roman now would you?

Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17563 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
Salve Romans

I take it as a great complement to the Eagle staff of 2756 a.u.c. ,that so illustrious a candidate has appeared to stand for election as Curator Differum. This person has stood in the Forum to announce his candidacy and has already served our Res Publica as

CONSUL: 2000-01-01 - 2000-12-31
PRAETOR: 1999-10-20 - 1999-12-31
PROCONSUL, Nova Britannia: 2001-03-11 - 2002-12-31
QUAESTOR: 1999-01-01 - 1999-12-31
QUAESTOR: 2002-01-01 - 2002-12-31
QUAESTOR: 2001-01-01 - 2001-12-31
Legate, Nova Britannia: 1999-02-28 - 2001-03-11
Accensus: 1999-01-01 - 1999-12-31
Accensus: 2002-01-03 - 2002-12-31
Accensus: 2003-01-01 - 2003-01-23
Scribe: 2002-01-09 - 2002-12-31


He has also served in the past as Curator Differum and in the past year has served as Curator Differum Emeritus. He has been an invaluable adviser and writer for the Eagle all year. He, along with the staff members of the Eagle have made this a great year. It is with great enthusiasm that I announce my support for the election of The Honorable Marcus Minucius Audens as Curator Differum and express to him my sincere thanks for his year long support of the Eagle and his willingness to once again get his fingers all inked up putting out the Eagle.

LONG LIVE THE EAGLE


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor
Candidate for Tribune of the Plebs
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mathews
To: labienus@...
Cc: Stephen Gallagher ; Caeso Fabius Quintilianus ; Titus Labienus Fortunatus
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: Candidature for Curator Differum


Honored Consuls and Friends;

My thanks for your voices of support for this idea, and my thanks
particularly to Consul Fortunatus for his patience in this situation and
his kindness in reopening the Candidature Period.

I must plead that my previous promise to "wait in the wings" in regard
to another Magistracy, forced me to wait until after the deadline
previously set. For that problem I am most apologetic.

However, to business -- I formally declare to Consul Fortunatus, as he
has requested, that I wish to stand for the Magistracy of Curator Differum
for the coming year 2004. With this notification, I shall don the white
toga of the Candidate and announce myself to the Main List. Again my
thanks for your responses and for your kind consideration of my unique
situation.

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17564 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Regarding Number of Assistants
Salvete Quirites!

As this issue has been frequently brought up in the last few days'
debate, I have decided to issue a statement as to the size of my
staff, should I be elected to serve the republic in the office of
Censor.

I will not appoint more than _two_ Scribae in the beginning. I don't
expect to appoint more than a couple more than that _if_ there is any
need for further appointments at all.

Illustrus Marcus Octavius Germanicus has indicated that he expects me
to do most of the day-to-day work if I am elected, but I expect that
we may pool our scribae. This could even mean that I appoint less
than four Scribae in total. I can't say for sure how many of the
Censorial scribae will need to have access to the database as I have
never been a Censor, but when I consider the tasks my estimation is
that two would be sufficient.

Please observe that I will probably need one scriba to assist me with
my English, but this Scriba would not need to have access to the
database as far as I can see, without further insight into the inner
workings of the magistracy.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17565 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
Livia Cornelia Hibernia Quiritibus S.P.D.

I can, without reservation, second this glowing endorsement of the
illustrious Marcus Minucius Audens to be our next Curator Differum.
As a Citizen, a subscriber to The Eagle and a Scriba Curatoris
Differum I welcome and support this outstanding entry into this
year's elections. The candidate's record speaks for itself without
any further embelishment from this humble Citizen.

Valete,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
Scriba Curatoris Differum
(Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> I take it as a great complement to the Eagle staff of 2756
a.u.c. ,that so illustrious a candidate has appeared to stand for
election as Curator Differum. This person has stood in the Forum to
announce his candidacy and has already served our Res Publica as
>
> CONSUL: 2000-01-01 - 2000-12-31
> PRAETOR: 1999-10-20 - 1999-12-31
> PROCONSUL, Nova Britannia: 2001-03-11 - 2002-12-31
> QUAESTOR: 1999-01-01 - 1999-12-31
> QUAESTOR: 2002-01-01 - 2002-12-31
> QUAESTOR: 2001-01-01 - 2001-12-31
> Legate, Nova Britannia: 1999-02-28 - 2001-03-11
> Accensus: 1999-01-01 - 1999-12-31
> Accensus: 2002-01-03 - 2002-12-31
> Accensus: 2003-01-01 - 2003-01-23
> Scribe: 2002-01-09 - 2002-12-31
>
>
> He has also served in the past as Curator Differum and in the past
year has served as Curator Differum Emeritus. He has been an
invaluable adviser and writer for the Eagle all year. He, along with
the staff members of the Eagle have made this a great year. It is
with great enthusiasm that I announce my support for the election of
The Honorable Marcus Minucius Audens as Curator Differum and express
to him my sincere thanks for his year long support of the Eagle and
his willingness to once again get his fingers all inked up putting
out the Eagle.
>
> LONG LIVE THE EAGLE
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum et Quaestor
> Candidate for Tribune of the Plebs
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Mathews
> To: labienus@t...
> Cc: Stephen Gallagher ; Caeso Fabius Quintilianus ; Titus
Labienus Fortunatus
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:40 PM
> Subject: Candidature for Curator Differum
>
>
> Honored Consuls and Friends;
>
> My thanks for your voices of support for this idea, and my thanks
> particularly to Consul Fortunatus for his patience in this
situation and
> his kindness in reopening the Candidature Period.
>
> I must plead that my previous promise to "wait in the wings" in
regard
> to another Magistracy, forced me to wait until after the deadline
> previously set. For that problem I am most apologetic.
>
> However, to business -- I formally declare to Consul Fortunatus,
as he
> has requested, that I wish to stand for the Magistracy of Curator
Differum
> for the coming year 2004. With this notification, I shall don
the white
> toga of the Candidate and announce myself to the Main List.
Again my
> thanks for your responses and for your kind consideration of my
unique
> situation.
>
> Very Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17566 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salve Gnaeus Salix Astur

Thank You for answering my questions.

If a candidate said he/she was going to get by with 5-10 staff members and with in a short time added 30 more I think that is something that would raise an issue of breaking ones word. But in the actual running of an office the adding of a few would be expected as the need arises.

Yes it is true that I have a staff one member less than the Senior Consul but as to how I was able to tric err recruit that many is a closely guarded secret, but just between you and me, I can tell you it has something to do with non-watered wine and a very very dark BACK ALLEY.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Curator Differum et Quaestor
Candidate for Tribune of the Plebs.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:25 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates


Salvete Quirites; et salve, T. Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Romans
>
> Could the Candidates for both Consul and Censor please inform me
> and the Citizens of Rome as to how many staff members they feel is
> the minimum and the maximum number that they will employ if elected
> to their respective offices .
>
> Please be specific as to both numbers.

What you are asking is quite difficult, T. Galeri. One never knows
what sudden needs might arise during next year, so it is difficult to
limit oneself to a certain number without taking the risk to be
forced to break one's word.

Having said this, I guess that every person has a different style of
working. I have to admit that I could never be effective with a staff
as large as yours, for example; I'd spend too much time just trying
to coordinate everyone (but that is just *me*; I am not saying that
you or anyone else do not have the right to work with as many people
as you want). So I guess that my staff would be smaller than yours.
*Far* smaller (I have just counted the members of your official
staff, and, if I have no mistakes, you have *twenty* people working
for you! Whoa! And for no money! How did you convince them?).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17567 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 20:09, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> > How is such an offense against the traditions of Ancient Rome for one
> > kinsman to run against their mater or paterfamilias any different or
> > reprehensible when in Ancient Rome women were forbidden to be in the
> > Senate or even act as head of their gens?
>
> There are Religous implications to having Women as heads of a Gens that
> are being ignored in the name of political correctness.
>
> > Are we to pick and choose what ancient traditions to honor when it is
> > convienent to do so and ignore other traditions the rest of the time?
>
> That seems to be the case in Nova Roma where we have more than a few
> citizens who are ready to toss aside any part of Roma they don't
> consider modern.
Salvete,
Perhaps we should take up slavery, gladiator fights as public
entertainment and the subordination of women? See how far you get in any
western democracy if you try to promote those Roman ideals!
The Romans were good at taking up the ideas of other people and using
them for their own purposes. If their political empire had lasted, it
would have changed. (It did change redically towards the end, becoming
Christian. During the last years of the Western Empire it was ruled
from Ravenna instead of Roma. They adapted to circumstances.)
The Romans never had PCs, aircraft, cars etc. Would the Romans have
adopted them if they could? Damned right! They'd have had machine guns
and aircraft carriers instead of a gladius and trireme.

Perhaps someone can tell mew hy would any modern woman wish to join a
group if she is not going to be treated according to the accepted
standards of her parent society (that recognises her as a human being
with all the rights and duties of citizenship?) I can almost hear them
rushing to type their applications to be a member of our society that
tells them that they are going to have very little influence in anything
important. Second class citizen? A little behind a freedman, I think.
You either adapt or you choose to "keep women in their place"? (Keep to
antique Roman tradition and you'll not have many women in your society.
It's a voluntary association, remember?).

I see you all are happy to be senators and magistrates, but where are
the capita censi and the slaves in Nova Roma? Should we have a few
slaves brought back from Iraq? That's what the Romans would have done.
The US Army did not loot, rape and pillage the cities it captured, does
not bring back any slaves to sell. I don't hear anyone complaining that
they are not acting correctly. Where are the Nova Roman slaves? Or have
we modernised that terrible institution too? Pick and choose what's best
from Roma? Damn right I do!
We've learned a few things during the last 1600 years. One of those
things is that we should not trust blindly in the past for all our
answers, but to refer to it, learn what we can from it and make our own
decisions.
If people wish to do things the Roman way, that's appropriate in Nova
Roma. Perhaps they will tell me from which period in Rome's 1200+ year
history their actions are taken? Perhaps they might choose to act the
way a Roman might act if the empire had continued for the last 1600
years? The Romans were a practical and adaptable people. They would have
changed with the times. Their language changed (becoming French,
Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian), their society changed. Let's
not pretend that the last 1600 years have not happened. They did. What
counts is how each citizen deals with their live today. If they approach
and solve their problems in what they believe to be a Roman fashion,
that's carrying on the traditions of Roma. Remember, you only have to
declare that you are a Roman to be one.
Thank you for reading. I intend to offend no one, just to express a few
thoughts that occured to me.

valete,
Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17568 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salvete Quirites; et salve, T. Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve Gnaeus Salix Astur
>
> Thank You for answering my questions.

You are most welcome :-).

> If a candidate said he/she was going to get by with 5-10 staff
> members and with in a short time added 30 more I think that is
> something that would raise an issue of breaking ones word. But in
> the actual running of an office the adding of a few would be
> expected as the need arises.

I agree. But one never knows.
Well; I guess that I'd be playing safe if I said that I will probably
employ about 5 to 10 people, as you mentioned above. But I could be
wrong, of course.

> Yes it is true that I have a staff one member less than the Senior
> Consul but as to how I was able to tric err recruit that many is a
> closely guarded secret, but just between you and me, I can tell
> you it has something to do with non-watered wine and a very very
> dark BACK ALLEY.

This is not the first time I hear about those two recruitment
methods; I believe that they have been extensively used by some
armies in the past :-).

I guess that the use of strong wine could be acceptable for me as a
recruiting method. But I am afraid that you will never, ever see me
going with a big, hairy scribe into a dark back alley ;-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17569 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
In a message dated 12/2/03 1:33:35 PM, rory12001@... writes:

<< Can you provide an answer to a simple question? >>

But it is not a simple question. Why is this important? As a military
historian specializing in Hellenistic History I have to read Latin, Greek, German,
Italian and French.
I also read some Japanese, and since I started researching the military in
the Han Dynasty, some Chinese.
But I ask. What does this have to do with my qualifications for censor?
Why am I being forced to jump through hoops, here?

Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17570 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
I'm asking because you said you'd be a better candidate for Censor
as you speak many languages; ergo which ones.
Anata wa, nihongo ga wakarimasu nee? Chotto hanasimasu?
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/2/03 1:33:35 PM, rory12001@y... writes:
>
> << Can you provide an answer to a simple question? >>
>
> But it is not a simple question. Why is this important? As a
military
> historian specializing in Hellenistic History I have to read Latin,
Greek, German,
> Italian and French.
> I also read some Japanese, and since I started researching the
military in
> the Han Dynasty, some Chinese.
> But I ask. What does this have to do with my qualifications for
censor?
> Why am I being forced to jump through hoops, here?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17571 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
Neil Lucock wrote:

>
> Salvete,
> Perhaps we should take up slavery, gladiator fights as public
> entertainment and the subordination of women?

I Was wondering how long long it would be before that moldy old Straw
man was drug out for another attack.

Slavery is of ZERO relevance to Nova Roma. Despite all the claims to the
contrary we are not an independent country, our laws have no more
meaning than the regulations of the Kennel Club. If we legalized Slavery
it would be utterly meaningless, because it would still be illegal under
the laws of every nation we operate in, and those laws count a lot more
than anything our comitia will ever pass. The same holds for Fights to
the death, they are illegal and will remain so no matter what we
attempt. It's as pointless as Nova Roma attempting to repeal the laws of
gravity.

The subordination of Women? Roman Women were some of the freest Women in
the ancient world and they had more rights than Women had after the
collapse of Roma, more rights than most Women in the West had until well
into the 20th Century. It took Women over 15 Centuries to regain the
position they had in Roma. We are hardly ignoring Roman traditions by
recognizing Womens rights in our Civil administration.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17572 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Capiti Censi in NR
Gaius Cornelius Severus asked:

> where are the capita censi

All of our citizens who choose not to pay their annual tax
are considered Capiti Censi and assigned to the last century
of the Comitia Centuriata, and one of the four urban tribes
of the Comitia Populi Tributa.

Other than that, Gaius Cornelius, I am in general agreement
with the gist of what you're saying but I do wish that you
(and others) would all make an effort to calm things down.

Yes, this is the 28th century a.u.c. We live in the modern
world. This is *Nova* Roma.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17573 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:

>
>
>
> << In a message dated 12/1/03 5:18:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> hucke@... writes:
>
>
> Wrong. They are not directed against "anyone"; they are directed
> against you, and you are certainly not just "anyone". You have heaped
> scorn upon the works of the current consulship since its beginning -
> and now you dare to pretend that the attacks on you are against
> "anyone", or are unfounded, or unjustified?
>
>
> Censor Octavius,
> So if L. Sicinius Drusus does not like what he sees happening in Rome,
> he may
> make no complaint? He cannot criticize? He cannot be a Roman? Let's
> face
> it, if the Gauls, Germans, or Punics were invading Italia tomorrow, we
> would
> all drop ourpetty squabbles and join our commands.
> The problem is we h ave no outside enemy to join against, hence we
> continue
> to fight over what is best for the Republic and the People. Sicinius
> Drusus
> has earned the right to criticize, he is Senator and a Pontiff. He
> has a stake
> in Rome like the rest of us. He has every right to his vision as you
> to yours
> o' Censor. If the shoe was on the other foot I'm sure you would be
> just as
> vocal. If not, you wouldn't be very Roman now would you?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus


We are facing Barbarian invaders, and we are ignoring them.

The Barbarians of Antiquita wanted to destroy the Roman State, the
Modern Barbarians want to destroy the ideals of Roma. The Barbarians of
old fought us with swords and spears, the modern barbarians are
attacking us with words and ideas.

The Modern Barbarians are telling people that the Romans are dead white
males who are of no importance to the modern world, that Latin is a
dead language that isn't worth studying, that classical art is inferior
to modern art, that Roman history needs to be removed from the schools
because history is too western centric.

The Barbarians have been attacking the idea of Roma, seeking to erase it
from the Western Mind for years, and we are ignoring this common foe to
engage in internal squables.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17574 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salve Paulinus,

I am happy to say that 8 citizens have already accepted to assist me when I become Consul: 1 citizen
to be my right hand, 3 citizens to help with the day to day work and 4 citizens acting as 'advisors'
(Religio and/or political). I think that 5 workers is more than enough otherwise it gets too big. I
would say the extreme maximum for a Consul should be 12 citizens (with advisors included) and a
minimum would be three or four.
Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17575 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Salve Titus Pius,

< If not, where does the constitution give you
> the right to interfere with, as opposed to be privy to, the debates of
> the Senate?

Right here:
IV.7.a of the constituion:
To pronounce intercessio (intercession; a veto) against the actions of any other magistrate (with
the exception of the dictator and the interrex), Senatus consulta, magisterial edicta, religious
decreta, and leges passed by the comitia when the spirit and/or letter of this Constitution or
legally-enacted edicta or decreta, Senatus Consulta or leges are being violated thereby;

I can veto a Senatus Consultum if I feel it is unconstitutional and *if* I can quote where in the
consitution the Senatus Consultum violates. I did precisely that. I did not veto it because it was
voted down.
< Do you feel that sharing a confidential part of a senate
> debate, as opposed to the subject and result thereof, is the act of a
> responsible magistrate?

LOL! I sent that email because it was directly referred to more than once in the Senate results and
it was directly asked for by a citizen. Funny though that you should complain that I sent an email
to this list when the subject matter was precisely that the Senior Consul wanted to give more Senate
info to the people....

<Do you often read only the parts of legislation which serves your interests?

I read all the legislation but I will veto anything that is unconstitutional. As for serving my
interests, my term of Tribune is nearly over. It would have been the Tribunes of the future that
would not have been necessary anymore if that Commission Item 4 would have been enacted.

<Will you keep doing so as consul, should you be elected?
Yes, I will continue to clearly pay attention to what is unconstituional, as I have for this entire
year.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17576 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Candidature for Curator Differum
<The Honorable Marcus Minucius Audens as Curator Differum and express to him my sincere thanks for
his year long support of the Eagle and his willingness to once again get his fingers all inked up
putting out the Eagle.

Hey that's great news!! I remember clearly in 1999 when Audens did the Eagle.
Long live the Eagle!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17577 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| I can veto a Senatus Consultum if I feel it is unconstitutional
| and *if* I can quote where in the consitution the Senatus
| Consultum violates. I did precisely that. I did not veto it
| because it was voted down.

So you did not pronounce intercessio with that mail. Please explain to
me, then, in what way that paragraph is relevant to the matter of you, a
tribune, speaking out in the senate? Even if it had been, you have no
right to veto a discussion in the senate, only senatus consulta.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| LOL! I sent that email because it was directly referred to more
| than once in the Senate results and it was directly asked for by
| a citizen.

I repeat, your duties regarding divulging matters from the senate is
defined in the constitution as "keep[ing] the citizens informed as to
~ the subjects and results thereof". Even though your mail in and of
itself is not, or should not, be part of the senate debate, the post
from the Senior Consul quoted within most definitely was.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17578 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Quinte Fabi.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/2/03 1:33:35 PM, rory12001@y... writes:
>
> << Can you provide an answer to a simple question? >>
>
> But it is not a simple question. Why is this important? As a
> military historian specializing in Hellenistic History I have to
> read Latin, Greek, German, Italian and French.
> I also read some Japanese, and since I started researching the
> military in the Han Dynasty, some Chinese.
> But I ask. What does this have to do with my qualifications for
> censor?
> Why am I being forced to jump through hoops, here?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

At last! After four days and three petitions, you have finally
answered my question (well... actually, you have not replied to me,
you have replied to someone else who asked the same question, which
still keeps me wondering if you are avoiding my questions... but
nevermind :-) ).

In any case, I have to say that I didn't know that you spoke so many
languages! My, that is very impressive! Especially the part about
Chinese and Japanese; oriental languages are particularly difficult
to master for those of us who have grown up speaking a European
language.

But what am I doing speaking in English? Possiamo pure parlare in
italiano, che é una lingua molto piú comoda per mé. Dopotutto,
l'italiano somiglia moltissimo allo spagnolo.

Ha mai pensato, senatore, d'incorporarsi al nostro gruppetto di
traduttori? Abbiamo bisogno di gente che sia capace di parlare
diverse lingue, e poi, qualcuno capace di parlare lingue orientali
come lei sarebbe sicuramente molto valutato. Io posso parlare
italiano (malamente) e spagnolo, e poi un pessimo francese ed un
cattivo inglese, ma certamente non parlo bene né greco né latino, che
sono due lingue molto utili per i nostri obiettivi globali come
organizzazione. Per non parlare di lingue orientali, nelle quali só
soltanto dire "domo arigato" :-).

Bé, per rispondere alla sua domanda, credo che sia stato logico
chiederla piú informazione sulle sue capacitá linguistiche, dato che
é stata proprio lei ad assicurare la sua superioritá sul suo
opponente su basi, fra altre, linguistiche:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17190

Infatti, in questo messaggio lei ha anche detto di essere uno
Storiografo; forse lei non sá che, in molti paesi, l'adozione di
questo titolo presuppone non soltanto un bagaglio educativo
abbastanza preciso e profondo, ma lo sviluppo di una certa attivitá
come professionista. Perció mi piacerebbe chiederla, se non é una
domanda troppo impertinente: cosa vuol dire lei quando dice di essere
uno storico?

Per ultimo, c'é qualcosa che non ho ancora capito. Se lei parla cosí
tante lingue, perché non l'ha detto sin dall'inizio? Veramente, non
mi sembra qualcosa da nascondere; anzi, direi che é proprio un motivo
di orgoglio. Puó spiegarmi la sua reticenza nel rispondere?

In ogni modo, devo ammettere di essere *molto* impressionato. Lei
parla molte lingue! Sono anche abbastanza felice, perché só che,
questa volta, lei risponderá a questo messaggio. Se lei non lo
facesse, forse qualcuno potrebbe dubitare delle vostre vere capacitá
linguistiche (speriamo che non sia il caso; certamente, non sto
parlando di me :-) ). Perció, la chiedo semplicemente di rispondermi
in questa lingua dantesca (o petrarchesca, se la piace di piú :-) ),
per cosí chiarire qualsiasi dubbio con rispetto alle sue soprastanti
affermazioni, che tutti sappiamo dell'esistenza dei traduttori
automatici, che traducono poco e male, ma piú o meno si fanno capire
da qualcuno che la lingua originale non la parla :-).

Bé, la lascio in pace. Complimenti per la sua vasta conoscenza.
Aspetto la sua risposta.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17579 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 22:03, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> The subordination of Women? Roman Women were some of the freest Women in
> the ancient world and they had more rights than Women had after the
> collapse of Roma, more rights than most Women in the West had until well
> into the 20th Century. It took Women over 15 Centuries to regain the
> position they had in Roma. We are hardly ignoring Roman traditions by
> recognizing Womens rights in our Civil administration.
Ave,

Perhaps so, their position compared to other iron age societies was
remarkable, but compared to their position in British society, it's
still a long way behind.I don't recall reading about any female censors,
dictators, emperors or senators in Rome. My point was that we have a
modern version taking the best ideas from Rome and rejecting those
things (including slavery etc.) that we find objectionable.
vale
Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17580 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Salve Titus Octavius,

<Even though your mail in and of
> itself is not, or should not, be part of the senate debate, the post
> from the Senior Consul quoted within most definitely was.

There was nothing in his part of the reply that said anything more than that he supported his Item.
And again, if the Senior Consul wanted to have a Commission appointed so that more Senate
information to be given to the people, why would he complain that the people saw 3 sentences of an
email where he states that he wants to give more Senate information to the people?

Ok so you think that it is better to remain silent when someone proposes something that is
unconstitutional and then publicly slamming him with a surprise veto afterwards? I'm glad that you
aren't running for Tribune!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17581 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates
Salvete

Obviously circumstances can change; while 5 - 10 may be fine on a day to day basis, some important item may come up that needs extra hands doing research. Please, Candidates, don't anyone paint yourselves into any corners!
I realize it is a sensitive issue with some people, but keep in mind that 2 people volunteering 4 hours a week and 8 people who volunteer only 1 hour a week both equal 8 hours of volunteer work - yet one looks "reasonable" and the other "bloated".
What's important is that the job gets done, and Citizen's confidential records are kept confidential.
So let's not belabour the labour issue too much.
After all, who knows what the year may bring?

Valete
~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
Sent: Dec 2, 2003 1:45 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Questions for Censors and Consul Candidates

<html><body>


<tt>
Salvete Quirites; et salve, T. Galeri.<BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> <BR>
wrote:<BR>
> Salve Gnaeus Salix Astur <BR>
> <BR>
> Thank You for answering my questions. <BR>
<BR>
You are most welcome :-).<BR>
<BR>
> If a candidate said he/she was going to get by with 5-10 staff <BR>
> members and with in a short time added 30 more I think that is <BR>
> something that would raise an issue of breaking ones word. But in <BR>
> the actual running of an office the adding of a few would be <BR>
> expected as the need arises.<BR>
<BR>
I agree. But one never knows.<BR>
Well; I guess that I'd be playing safe if I said that I will probably <BR>
employ about 5 to 10 people, as you mentioned above. But I could be <BR>
wrong, of course.<BR>
<BR>
> Yes it is true that I have a staff one member less  than the Senior <BR>
> Consul but as to how I was able to  tric err recruit that many is a <BR>
> closely guarded secret, but just between you and me,  I can tell <BR>
> you it has something to do with non-watered wine and a  very very <BR>
> dark BACK ALLEY. <BR>
<BR>
This is not the first time I hear about those two recruitment <BR>
methods; I believe that they have been extensively used by some <BR>
armies in the past :-).<BR>
<BR>
I guess that the use of strong wine could be acceptable for me as a <BR>
recruiting method. But I am afraid that you will never, ever see me <BR>
going with a big, hairy scribe into a dark back alley ;-).<BR>
<BR>
S.V.B.E.E.V.<BR>
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17582 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:57, rory12001 wrote:
> I'm asking because you said you'd be a better candidate for Censor
> as you speak many languages; ergo which ones.
> Anata wa, nihongo ga wakarimasu nee? Chotto hanasimasu?
> Ave,
does the japanese say;
"concerning you, japanese understood, isn't it?"
I'm not sure about the last bit. I think it's "is that right?"
Gaijin desu.
Vale

Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17583 From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote to Senator QFM (sorry for intruding, by the way):
> But what am I doing speaking in English? Possiamo pure parlare in
> italiano, che é una lingua molto piú comoda per mé.

Apart from the fact that your accents are facing the wrong way, your Italian is considerably better than mine. :-)
Congratulations to that, and good luck in your campaign!

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17584 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cn. Octavi Norice.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
<cn.octavius.noricus@g...> wrote:

> Apart from the fact that your accents are facing the wrong way,
> your Italian is considerably better than mine. :-)

Gosh! Are my accents pointing the wrong way?
Damned keyboard! :-).

> Congratulations to that, and good luck in your campaign!

Thank you very much, Cn. Octavi. And the same to you, of course :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17585 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
Salve Titus Octavius

Sorry my cat jumped on me and the email went out before it ws done. Here is the complete version.

> So you did not pronounce intercessio with that mail. Please explain to
> me, then, in what way that paragraph is relevant to the matter of you, a
> tribune, speaking out in the senate? Even if it had been, you have no
> right to veto a discussion in the senate, only senatus consulta.
<Senatus Consultum on the Senate Communications Commission

I think that you must be confused. Item 4 (which my email was about) *was* a vote on a Senatus
Consulta. A Tribune can veto a Senatus Consultum as I previously mentioned (IV.7.a of the
Consitution. See below this email the full text of the proposed and (not passed) rejected Senatus
Consultum on the Senate Communications Commission*

<Even though your mail in and of
> itself is not, or should not, be part of the senate debate, the post
> from the Senior Consul quoted within most definitely was.

There was nothing in his part of the reply that said anything more than that he supported his Item.
And again, if the Senior Consul wanted to have a Commission appointed so that more Senate
information to be given to the people, why would he complain that the people saw 3 sentences of an
email where he states that he wants to give more Senate information to the people?

Ok so you think that it is better to remain silent when someone proposes something that is
unconstitutional and then publicly slamming him with a surprise veto afterwards? I'm glad that you
aren't running for Tribune!

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina

*****************
ITEM 4. Tthe Senate Communications Commission

During the last year there has become clear that there is a need for
a more visible communication "line" between the Senate and the
Populus. With the appintment of the Senate Communications Commission
I hope to contribute to a solution of this task.
_______________________

Senatus Consultum on the Senate Communications Commission

The Senate Communications Commission is hereby established to handle
communications between the Senate and the people. Its main tasks
shall be to answer, as far as it may, questions from the public about
Senate procedures and debates; to provide points of contact for
people wishing to approach the Senate; to maintain the Senate's
public profile and promote understanding of its role in government;
and to monitor the interaction of the Senate with the public,
recommending changes to the Consuls if appropriate.

The commission shall consist of the Coordinator Responsorum, acting
as chair, and two other Senators of his or her choice.

The Curator Araneum is directed to set up a page on the website
giving information about this commission and how it may be contacted
________________

I propose that the Senate approve the Senatus Consultum on the Senate
Communications Commission.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17586 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call
Tch, gaijin, is rude, someone's seen Shogun too many times;)
but you are perfectly correct; I said "you understand japanese, do
you speak a little?"
Colombia Daigaku de nihongo o benkyoo shimashita.
Vale
Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
> > Anata wa, nihongo ga wakarimasu nee? Chotto hanasimasu?
> > Ave,
> does the japanese say;
> "concerning you, japanese understood, isn't it?"
> I'm not sure about the last bit. I think it's "is that right?"
> Gaijin desu.
> Vale
>
> Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17587 From: L. Didius Geminus Sceptius Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: All That Is Rome!
Salve, Senator Fabius Maximus.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> This was expressed very well. A lot of you here are not to the
Roman mindset > yet.

SCEPTIVS: May I humble ask which mindset is that? I mean, I'd like
to know if I'm on it or not.

I say that with no insult.

SCEPTIVS: I'll understand as so. :-)

You simply superimposed your American,> Italian, German, Hispanic
values over those that are Roman or what you think is > Roman.

SCEPTIVS: Could you please base this under something worthy? I mean,
you can't assure such a thing with no proofs.

This is a very explosive subject. Everybody thinks they know what
is or > is not Roman.

SCEPTIVS: It seems that you know it quite well, and maybe the unique
one.

And this is what causes such huge problems. The closest > people
who seem to grasp Romanitas are the English.

SCEPTIVS: Good! First you said we superimposed (First of all)
american values, then you go back on another statement. Well, this
is quite incoherent, isn't it?


> I don't mind answering questions about my qualifications for
office according > to the honorum and constitution.

SCEPTIVS: Well, then do such thing, citizen.

I do mind when the questions not on topic. > When they have nothing
to do with office I stand for, but instead just in > attempt to make
me either lose my cool, or trip me up so later posters can say
> "you said this then and you say this now!"

SCEPTIVS: I think you misunderstand this. My questions were only
about that qualifications you said you had. My questions didn't
attack you or any other candidate. If you feel it is an attempt to
loose your cool, you should ask yourself why this fear. All
questions are in topic, and deny them is a real and maybe important
fault toward all potential voters. If you are bothered for, is
neither my foult nor a proper answer of *deny* an asked answer.

> I understand that this be not on politics but just personal
dislikes. Too > bad. I can do nothing about that. You either like
me or you do not. The rest > is in the hands of > the Gods.

SCEPTIVS: What you are based on to say is personal? my questions
were aimed to ALL Consular candidates, ALL Tribunitian candidates
and to you as far as you stated some things I felt curious about.
Is not only a "You take me or you leave me". Is *why* or not taking
you, Fabius Maximus.

To hide in rethoric is no valid for a simple question drawn to a
candidate. To pledge the Gods expecting people to forgot their
answers is not too. Please, Censorial Candidate, could you simply,
plainly, answers my questions? You know where they are, just think
on your answer and give it to me.


vale bene in pace deorum,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINUS·SCEPTIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17588 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: VOTING RESULTS OF COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA

Comitia Populi Tributa has voted on "Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum
Populi Tributorum"

Presiding Magistrate: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Consul

33 out of 35 tribes voted
2 Tribes did not cast ballots.

25 Tribes voted Yes
8 Tribes voted No (3 were tied)
0 abstentions

Abstentions: None; all tribes in which abstentions were cast also had votes.

"Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum": PASSED
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17589 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: VOTING RESULTS OF COMITIA CENTURIATA
COMITIA CENTURIATA

Comitia Centuriata has voted on two leges: "Lex Fabia Centuriata" and
"Lex Fabia Civitate Minorum"

Presiding Magistrate: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Consul

47 out of 51 centuries cast ballots.
4 centuries had no ballots cast

Therefore, the number of centuries voting was 47, and the vote of 24
centuries was needed for the passage of these leges.

"Lex Fabia Centuriata"

26 centuries voted Yes
18 centuries voted No (7 were tied)
3 abstentions

Lex Fabia Centuriata: PASSED


"Lex Fabia Civitate Minorum"

27 centuries voted Yes
19 centuries voted No (8 were tied)
1 abstentions

Lex Fabia civitate Minorum: PASSED
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17590 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Children need to play nice
Salve Romans

Now this is getting really childish! Now we are going to test Q. Fabius Maximus knowledge of Italian?

I do not know what the rest of the post says but enough is enough. If You don't like Q. Fabius Maximus then PLEASE don't vote for him. The original question, if anybody remembers by now was a magistrates ability with the business language of Nova Roma , which is English.

Ok we get it some people like Q. Fabius Maximus some do not, these childish games is what brought down the Ancient Republic.

Tomorrow in the As the Tiber Flows we read:

"If my side doesn't win am taking my half of the Senate home and I am not playing Republic any more"

"My Pater can beat up your Pater"

"Ok its settled . My legion will meet you legion at dawn on the field of Mars and last man standing wins.

OK? OK.



We have a lot more important things to do they give an Italian language test to one of the two Citizens who holds a PhD. ( if there are more I am unaware of it.)

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:09 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Requesting an Answer: Third Call


Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Quinte Fabi.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/2/03 1:33:35 PM, rory12001@y... writes:
>
> << Can you provide an answer to a simple question? >>
>
> But it is not a simple question. Why is this important? As a
> military historian specializing in Hellenistic History I have to
> read Latin, Greek, German, Italian and French.
> I also read some Japanese, and since I started researching the
> military in the Han Dynasty, some Chinese.
> But I ask. What does this have to do with my qualifications for
> censor?
> Why am I being forced to jump through hoops, here?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

At last! After four days and three petitions, you have finally
answered my question (well... actually, you have not replied to me,
you have replied to someone else who asked the same question, which
still keeps me wondering if you are avoiding my questions... but
nevermind :-) ).

In any case, I have to say that I didn't know that you spoke so many
languages! My, that is very impressive! Especially the part about
Chinese and Japanese; oriental languages are particularly difficult
to master for those of us who have grown up speaking a European
language.

But what am I doing speaking in English? Possiamo pure parlare in
italiano, che é una lingua molto piú comoda per mé. Dopotutto,
l'italiano somiglia moltissimo allo spagnolo.

Ha mai pensato, senatore, d'incorporarsi al nostro gruppetto di
traduttori? Abbiamo bisogno di gente che sia capace di parlare
diverse lingue, e poi, qualcuno capace di parlare lingue orientali
come lei sarebbe sicuramente molto valutato. Io posso parlare
italiano (malamente) e spagnolo, e poi un pessimo francese ed un
cattivo inglese, ma certamente non parlo bene né greco né latino, che
sono due lingue molto utili per i nostri obiettivi globali come
organizzazione. Per non parlare di lingue orientali, nelle quali só
soltanto dire "domo arigato" :-).

Bé, per rispondere alla sua domanda, credo che sia stato logico
chiederla piú informazione sulle sue capacitá linguistiche, dato che
é stata proprio lei ad assicurare la sua superioritá sul suo
opponente su basi, fra altre, linguistiche:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17190

Infatti, in questo messaggio lei ha anche detto di essere uno
Storiografo; forse lei non sá che, in molti paesi, l'adozione di
questo titolo presuppone non soltanto un bagaglio educativo
abbastanza preciso e profondo, ma lo sviluppo di una certa attivitá
come professionista. Perció mi piacerebbe chiederla, se non é una
domanda troppo impertinente: cosa vuol dire lei quando dice di essere
uno storico?

Per ultimo, c'é qualcosa che non ho ancora capito. Se lei parla cosí
tante lingue, perché non l'ha detto sin dall'inizio? Veramente, non
mi sembra qualcosa da nascondere; anzi, direi che é proprio un motivo
di orgoglio. Puó spiegarmi la sua reticenza nel rispondere?

In ogni modo, devo ammettere di essere *molto* impressionato. Lei
parla molte lingue! Sono anche abbastanza felice, perché só che,
questa volta, lei risponderá a questo messaggio. Se lei non lo
facesse, forse qualcuno potrebbe dubitare delle vostre vere capacitá
linguistiche (speriamo che non sia il caso; certamente, non sto
parlando di me :-) ). Perció, la chiedo semplicemente di rispondermi
in questa lingua dantesca (o petrarchesca, se la piace di piú :-) ),
per cosí chiarire qualsiasi dubbio con rispetto alle sue soprastanti
affermazioni, che tutti sappiamo dell'esistenza dei traduttori
automatici, che traducono poco e male, ma piú o meno si fanno capire
da qualcuno che la lingua originale non la parla :-).

Bé, la lascio in pace. Complimenti per la sua vasta conoscenza.
Aspetto la sua risposta.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17591 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
> Of the two candidates for Censor there is no doubt which one is the most
> experienced, Quintus Fabius Maximus has held every office in Nova Roma
> save Censor, a record that his Gensmate can't begin to match.

Odd definition of "can't begin to match" that you have there...

Consul QFM 2000 CFQ 2003
Praetor QFM 2001 CFQ no
Curule Aedile QFM 1999 [1/2] CFQ 2002
Quaestor QFM 2002 CFQ 2001
Governor QFM 2001-3 CFQ 2001-3

So, out of five magistracies, CFQ lacks only one that QFM has held.
However, he was Curule Aedile for twice as long.

"can't begin to match" is clearly an exaggeration.

> There is also the matter of challenging not just a Gensmate, but
> entering a contest against your own Paterfamilias. Caseo Fabius has
> shown an utter disregard for Roman traditions by doing this, and hasn't
> bothered informing Nova Roma's citizens why he is flouting our traditions.

You're really stretching here... he should show deference to someone
in another country, who he has never met, as if he was a real "pater"?

Vale, Octavius.
Supporter of Caeso for Censor.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17592 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting November 2003
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Salve, Diana Moravia Aventina.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| I think that you must be confused. Item 4 (which my email
| was about) *was* a vote on a Senatus Consulta. A Tribune
| can veto a Senatus Consultum as I previously mentioned (IV.7.a
| of the Consitution. See below this email the full text of the
| proposed and (not passed) rejected Senatus Consultum on the
| Senate Communications Commission*

Again, you have no right to veto neither a senate discussion nor vote.

However, the main point is that your post to the senate list was NOT a
veto. Neither are you a senator. Why did you post on the senate list,
disregarding the constitution, when you're sworn to defend the same?

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| There was nothing in his part of the reply that said anything
| more than that he supported his Item.

The content of his post was irrelevant. It was neither a subject of
discussion nor a result thereof, and should not have been disclosed
without the permission of the senate.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
| Ok so you think that it is better to remain silent when
| someone proposes something that is unconstitutional and
| then publicly slamming him with a surprise veto afterwards?

No, a private notification to the presiding magistrate would have been a
proper response. Then, if he didn't drop the proposal, and the senate
issued it as a senatus consulta, you could have attempted to pronounce
intercessio.

Did you even bother consulting with your colleagues the constitutional
basis for intercessio before threatening the senate in session with it?

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17593 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: Endorsement for Censor
L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> > Is there a written tradition in the mos maiorum or the virtues that
> > forbids this?
>
> Yes it's called respecting the postion of the Pater, and this tradition
> holds when the Filis is Sui Iuris.

The position of a _paterfamilias_. The Pater of a Familias. There is
no such tradition regarding the head of a gens (for there was no such
thing as the head of a gens in antiquity). You are attempting to
take advantage of an error in terminology to try to accuse Caeso
of violating a tradition that does not exist.

> There are Religous implications to having Women as heads of a Gens that
> are being ignored in the name of political correctness.

Interesting. Do you intend to bar women from holding that position?

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 17594 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-02
Subject: Re: L. Sicinius Drusus vs. Reality
Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:

> Censor Octavius,
> So if L. Sicinius Drusus does not like what he sees happening in Rome, he may
> make no complaint? He cannot criticize?

Whoever said that? Certainly not I. I was merely pointing that
L. Sicinius is a hypocrite for condemning the supporters of Caeso
when they attack him, when his own words are no better.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/