Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you again most humbly in the white toga of the Candidate
for the subject Magistry.

My purpose here is to keep you abreast of my activities in preparation
for your possible approval at the polls.

I have contacted the current Curator Differum and have asked for a list
of the "Eagle" Staff as it is presently constituted and am familiarizing
myself with who they are, what they have done in the past year as well
as what special talents they may have.

In addition, I am gathering together all my past issues of "Eagle" and
establishing a file. They are all here in the house, but unfortunately
they are not all in one place.

Once gathered together , it will be my pleasure to review these past
issues and mark those aspects which impress me as well as those that do
not. In this way I will be prepared in some small way to "take up the
gage" should you approve my Candidacy.

I make note to you that while I am not on the Main List at the moment, I
do visit it each day. Thereason is that I have a small mail box, and
the extensive messages at tis time of year fill my mail box up much too
fast If any citizen has a question for me regarding my Candidacy, I
would ask that you send the message to me directly. I will be pleased
to answer it on the Main List

My thanks for your patience with my posts and your kindness in reading
them. I hope you like what is there.

In Hopes of Further Service to Nova Roma;

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Salve Luci Sicini, et salvete quirites,

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
[quoting me]

>>Keep in mind that the Roman Senate was the advisory
>>body for the Consuls, who were themselves Senators.
>>The Senate was not a separate branch of government
>>in the sense that the US Senate is the Legislative
>>Branch while the President is the Executive Branch.
>
>
> I'm afraid I'll have to disagree on the Senate just being an "advisory
> body for the Consuls" and not a branch of the government.

I didn't say the Senate was "just" anything, my
adversarial friend. I have tremendous respect for
the power and ability of the Senate in Roma Antiqua.

> Polybius considered the Senate to be one of the three branches of the
> Roman State
>
> THE THREE kinds of government, monarchy, aristocracy and democracy,

[...]

Note that Polybius is saying three kinds, not three branches,
of government. He was pointing out the highly unusual situation
wherein all three of those things existed simultaneously within
Roman political leadership. He did not say that there were three
separate branches.

My point, for the original questioner, was that in Roma
Antiqua there was nothing like the three separate branches
of government found in the US.

But we can always benefit from reading Polybius, so thanks
for quoting him.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salve Audens,

Thank you for the support :-)

I only have one teeny wheeny correction :-)):

> (Grin!!!) I can't say much for her preference for male company (Q. Fabius Maximus) but perhaps

that is simply male jealousy speaking (Grin Again!!!!!!).

Ahh, no need for anyone to be jealous. At Roman Days I only had eyes for one charming citizen whom I
had the pleasure of spending a great deal of time with at Roman Days. He kept me laughing the entire
weekend with his creative stories and escorted me everywhere like the fine young gentleman that he
is. He and his lovely sister took me along with them on a quick hunting trip and they both approved
of the belly dancing costume. His sister even allowed me to make her up and put a veil on her head
the result being that we matched very well when we were walking around the camp.

I forgot to mention that the gentleman and his lovely sister are the 7 year old son and 10 year old
daughter of Cincinnatus. I'm looking forward to seeing them next year and hearing more scary tales
of what happens at night at the Roman Days camp when the moon shines down on the gravestone and the
ghosts begin to wander the camp... And next year I'll bring a set of Khaki's so that I can be more
properly attired to search through the bushes hunting for a frog that they spotted in the camp :-)

Vale,
Diana

Consul,
Internet sites in violation of COPA can be fined up to 50,000 dollars a
day for every day they are in violation.

I'm asking again what do you intend to do to insure that Nova Roma is in
compliance with national laws regulating the privacy of Minors?

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Salve Consul,
> During the debate over the Lex Fabia Civitate Minorum I pointed out that
> there are national laws that regulate obtaining information from minors,
> such as COPA in the United States, I would like to know what your plans
> are to insure that Nova Roma is in compliance with these laws.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
>
> >
> > "Lex Fabia Civitate Minorum"
> >
> > 27 centuries voted Yes
> > 19 centuries voted No (8 were tied)
> > 1 abstentions
> >
> > Lex Fabia civitate Minorum: PASSED
>
>
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
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>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites et Illustri Decimus Iunius Silanus!

I will if I may, answer these questions shortly. I think that
opposing forces are a fact of history and I agree with Illustri
Lucius Arminius Faustus that this is part of what is driving history
"forward".

But this doesn't mean that one should or must support all such
"antagonism". I think I have shown that I understand that opponents
can and should cooperate by agreeing to disagree and after that try
to find common solutions or at least listen to each other.

When I became Consul I created CAM (Consilium Accensorum Magnorum) to
which I invited two opponents, two long time personal friends and one
very skilled citizen that can't be placed in any "corner". You
paterfamilias, Illustrus Decius Iunius Palladius, accepted the
invitation after some negotiations I was happy to meet his
requirement to have him onboard. I never asked him to suport my
proposals, but he and the others in CAM promised to give as good
advise as possible. I am very happy that I did this and I will be
prepared to do this again in the future. Your Pater is a very
honorable and honest man, I got the advises I sought and he got the
information that the CAM provided him with. He did a very good job as
my "opposing" Accensus and today I am proud to call him my friend and
best opponent.

I will continue to seek advise from any serious citizen that will
communicate with me without insults and destructive acts. If there is
anyone that opposes my policy, but is prepared to work with me and
assist me if I am elected Censor I will be glad to consider
appointing such a person my scriba. I hereby invite any such person
to contact me. I will reserve the right to choose my Scribae, but I
assure You that I will choose skill and devotion to the Res Publica
before loyallity to myself.

By doing this I think that I show that the interest of Nova Roma goes
before any other interest that exist and I will hopefully be able to
get the assistance of the most skilled person available.

While thinking of it I remember that You soon may be "free" from your
position as a Censorial Scriba. If I am elected Censor and if You
think that You can work with me, I would be honored to offer You the
same position in my Censorial Cohors, sometime in January. Please
think of it!

>So IÂ’d be grateful if our candidates for consul (and
>anyone else) could answer me a few questions.
>
>1. Do you agree with me in my analysis of the current
>situation? Is this to be viewed as a problem or a
>necessary evil of politics?
>2. If elected, what, if anything, would you do to
>prevent further exacerbation of the current divisions
>within Nova Roma?
>
>I believe that all of us here, without exception, wish
>to see the furtherance of Nova Roma. Maybe its time to
>concentrate on what unites rather than divides us.
>
>Valete
>
>Decimus Iunius Silanus

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Citizens of Rome, hear me please!
I have sat and listened to the constant
discussions about localized groups, and possible
polarization, with much interest. I am not a Senator,
nor am I a Magistrate. I am but a simple soldier,
who's only desire is to serve this glorious Republic.

I have spoken with many of my colleagues, and we
share the same mind on this. Perhaps what we are
seeing, is an increasing need for Nova Roma to
transcend from just a cyber micro-nation, to an actual
flesh and blood micro-nation.

Already we are seeing groups coming together
routinely throughout our various provinces. Senators,
Soldiers, beautiful women, we all share a common bond
in our love of Rome, its ideals, and the thought of
taking just a little time out of our real lives to
live that dream again. Whether it be in healthy
debate on the lists, marching in the hot sun, or
lounging around, eating, drinking, and gossiping, we
are all proud to be Romans. Perhaps now it is time
for the Senate to take the mantle and lead us into
this New Age of Reason, by laying the groundwork for
Nova Roma to possibly become more "flesh and blood".

There will of coarse be positive and negative
issues with such a move, but none of the negatives are
too dificult that we cannot overcome them. But in
doing so, we become more public, have stronger
possibilities of bringing in new members, and thus new
ideas, plus we get to come together more oftem and
have fun! :) My thoughts are that we start from our
provincial level and expand on that. I believe
someone mentioned earlier something to the affect of
creating municipalities. These could be set around
major clusters of citizens, and eventually expanded
upon. We could even have a Grand Gathering once a
year where the legio can march with grandure, artisans
can show their talents, the Senate can debate in
person and in grand style, and we can all have fun and
eat and drink like Romans! :)

I have already started work on an official proposal
for the Senate, detailing every aspect of this bold
move. I would love to have some good discussion on
the subject, and I would welcome assistance from
others who have been members of other organizations
that were like Nova Roma (not necessarily ancients)
and who had systems in place to be both cyber and
flesh and blood organizations.

Most respectfully submitted,
Marcus Scipio Africanus
Tribunus Augusticlavii
Legio X Fretensis

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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Salve Titus Pius,

6th request. Please take 5 minutes of your time and update the Senatus Consulta section of the
website.

> Would you care to explain the expression above? What is a "freighter
> manuever"? A Google search got me one singular hit, which seemed largely
> unrelated

As for freighter maneuvers: You were on the list where we chatted about it, but if you don't
remember the details then ask Marinus, because he was the person who started that thread.

> And are you not planning on further responding to my query regarding you
> speaking out in the senate, and in doing so ignoring the procedures the
> senate has decided on in accordance with the constitution?

I answered you twice and now I am answering you again, so in your opinion what is ignoring?

My final answer is that
1) I have done everything according to the Constituion and the Laws that you keep quoting.
2) While the Senators and Consules who are all subscribed to this list have not said a peep, you,
our sometimes webmaster, are repeating yourself over and over that I did something unconstitutional
etc. etc. I know the Law and I have always acted within it. So I'll repeat myself a second time: If
the Senate or the 2 Consules think that I have gone against the Constituion or any Law or Senatus
consulta then they can say so.

Vale,
Diana

Salve,

For once I agree with Senator Drusus. LOL. I think today's society has
the Romans as an evil cruxifing race. I myself see the Romans as preservers and
founders of Western Civilization (Not to forget the Greeks as founders as
well). I go to a Catholic High School in Medi-Atlancita. It seems that the
students have a mind set that the Romans are, as Senator Drusus said, everything
wrong about human nature. I being a Nova Roman argue theirs false ideas on Rome.
Even for those whom don't think that about Rome they just seem to think all
there is to Rome are gladiators and Caesar. Even some of my family members try to
argue that the Romans were evil, wrong, crazy et cetera. I told them to look
at the time they lived in, how others in that time evolved. I even say that
every civilization had is faults. Even we in the USA segregated peoples of
African decent just because of their skin color. I then tell them to think before
they say that Romans are all evil. No Civilization is completely evil. Everyone
has the pros and cons. Tuesday in my history class we will be starting a
chapter on Ancient Rome. My teacher knows that I am an avid admire of Rome and I
speak about them 24 7. She has asked me to make a presentation in front of the
class. I will do so and I will tell them to not just think of Rome as just
some other civilization, but to get rid of their mind set as Romans being evil
and just gladiators and Caesar. To remember Rome as one of the greatest
civilizations that ever existed. Rome is everywhere. It is in every culture, every
idea, every heart, and every soul. Rome is forever......

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete.
When I became Consul I gave a speech about visions. How everybody has their
own. Which we all do. Those who have the same visions tend to join together
and these become
a defining dogma. And this is what coalesces into factions.

BUT...
Are we a recreation of Rome or not?

If we are not, I agree the estimeed Galerius Paulinus, then we all should
join hands, sing
Cum-bai-ya and agree we are one happy family, and get on with recreating a
vanilla Roman world.

If we are not, then we seem to be on track. Nova Roma as many of you know
was founded to advance the revival of the Roman Religio. However, as most here
knows, the Religio is tied up in the Roman State. So we have to have a Roman
State as well.

If we wish to be like Romans, we have to think like Romans. We have several
advantages that they did not have. First, they were born into their society.
We have to recreate it. And because we have the advantage of hindsight, we
have decided to make changes.
But these changes have doomed us as far as getting grants and so on, because
modern society forces on to us certain things we cannot have in Rome. Yet
these things we cannot have were vital to Rome's growth. So we have to find
substitutes.

This places us in a sort of catch-22 (impossible dilemma for those non
Americans here).
We cannot create an exact historical Rome. So because of that fact, we have
broken up into two armed camps with one neutral camp in the center. And
though it pains me to say it, that is entirely Roman. The history shows that
pattern over and over again. If it is not the Great Etruscan Gens against the
Lesser ones, then its the Patricians against the Plebes, the
Optimates against the Popularii, the Senate against the Equites, the Boni
against Moderates. Later it is the Imperator against the Senate. Finally the
Religio against Christians.

Rome was built on strife, people! You non historians among us seem not to
gather the fact.
I suppose it is because you have been fooled by this word "best" of Roman
Culture.
But if we restore the "best" of Roman Culture, we end up with the USA. Yeah,
I know, it shocked me too. Not today's USA, which is more like the
Principate driven by special interests, but the USA of the 18th century with its high
ideals and lofty prose.

Because of this, we can never get any grant. I know. I tried. We can
recreate the government up to a point, and we can learn a lot from observation of
the interaction of
different cultures trying to Roman. And we can see how the Roman government
operated.
I believe Cicero would be proud of that aspect of us.

We have the Roman constitution as written by Polybios, and the Roman
constitution as rewritten by Diocletianus. We know of the leges that L. Cornelius
Sulla instituted in his bid to restore the power of the Senate to the government,
and to limit the Popularii attempt to control things. We have Augustus'
changes to improve Rome, and eliminate Civil Wars so damaging to Rome. Though he
never foresaw a Claudian called Nero.

So this is my stand. If we are going to do this, then do it as close as we
can, according to rules and regulations of the various nations we are forced to
operate in and by.

We have a blueprint in the Polybian constitution, he admired the Roman
government, and tells us how it worked. The idea of any bicameral system is to
provide checks and balances.
In the Polybian constitution, the Consuls would lead, the Senate controlled
the Consuls, and the People controlled both. In emergencies the Constitution
could be suspended, and a single Rex, appointed, since the Romans were
practical. They understood that factions would indeed slow down the working of a
government, so they were prepared to cut the red tape by appointing one clear
voice to lead all Romans. Yet, the Romans were scared of domination of just one
man, so they put a limit on such power. After six months his throne was up for
renewal and if the emergency was past he was expected to vacate it.
So, I see nothing wrong with factions, patron/clients, acrimonious existence.
They are so Roman. And important to the well being of a Republic.

Even though I came across peeved during the cohor attack phase during my
Censor campaign, what was being done to me is typical politics, Roman style. The
problem is I cannot hire similar thugs to harass my opponent. This is why I
am against large staffs.
You have an ex facto Patron Client relationship, even though everybody denies
it. (Which I find very interesting).
We see it action today during the campaigns. I believe that the reason
people find it so repugnant is because we aren't born into a society where it was
the norm, rather than the exception. Yet when this window of exposure on an
ancient society opened, modern sensibilities react, and demand it be closed.
But if we are here to learn, how is that a good thing?
You want to study a culture, even live it, you have to examine all aspects,
the warts and the smooth skin. Otherwise you just get 1/2 the picture. And a
rosy picture it usual is. That's human nature. That's why I find the
discussions on the Religio lists so amusing. People who have private practices that
work, now what to reform the State Religion to their view. And when we tell
them it is not going to happen, they get miffed. How dare the College tell
them what to do? But we are not telling them what to do. We are just telling
them the State Religion is different from the private practice.

Gens reform. I bring this up only because it was mentioned in this context.
When you back engineer anything, you work your backwards trying to interpret
the technology and its relationship and function. You cannot back engineer
Gens.
How do you suppose the Great Families started? Dionysios in "Roman
Antiquities"
tells that Gens started as clans, groups of warriors, who bound together with
oaths
and mutual interest.

People! Nova Roma is 5 years old! How can there be blood related families?
Most of us who joined originally were single, individualists seeking
Romanitas. Now, that did several things. First we took Roman names, mostly to honor
great individual Romans. Part of the name is the common Nomen, the Gens name.
Next, since we are individuals with a common
nomen we were forced into gens. So right there we have problems. I have
family in Italia, Hispania, America, England and yes Scandinavia. I would love
to hold an annual family sacrifice as in the good old days, but I cannot. In
fact at the feast day to Fortuna, only my two Anglenios, gens mates Fabius
Metellus and Prima Fabia were in attendance. A sad fact
about a great Gens.
Unless we are willing to force Gens to relocate by geographical locations, I
cannot see how any change is going to help. Breaking up extended familes is
going cause Nova Roma many problems and resignations. On the other hand
forcing all Nova Romans in Los Angeles into my Gens will cause many problems and
resignations, although in the long run it would help build a local Roman
community. My answer. Leave it alone. Like old Rome, it will solve itself. If we
survive a generation, we will have natural families. We are already having
children born into Nova Roma, it will be up to the parents to educate their
children about things Roman and a love of Roman culture and religion. If this
happens, eventually, the Gens will revert to its ancestors: a start of a proud
family tradition many generations ago.

Rome started as an agriculture community of tribes/clans. We see this in the
first assembly. The importance of the trade routes to the South forced
Etruscan intervention and the imprinting of their culture on the Romans. The
Centuries were born out of military necessity. The great Etruscan families planted
offshoots of their families. The Roman great families were started.
Eventually the serfs wanted their own say in the government. The Great Families, the
Patricians, allowed them. Rome as we know it was born.

We don't have this. We are back engineering a culture that only has remnants
remaining of it. We are going to have problems. We are going to have
factions, we are going to have to have acrimony, we are going to have compromises.
This is all to be expected. After all we are emulating Romans.
As you can see I am passionate about this subject. As I am about Rome.

Thank you for listening. If this is translated into other languages, I hope
the translators do it justice. I believe it is very important to do so.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Flavia Tullia <flavia@l...> wrote:

>

<snipped>

> Unfortunately, one of the other candidates possesses some of these
> qualities, but not others, and is not qualified at this time to hold

this

> office.

<snipped>

>Certain recent matters of decorum are also at issue, for it
> is by no means appropriate to appear at a reenactment event hosted

by one of

> the most authentic of the reenactment legions in the U.S. attired as

a most

> inauthentic danseuse du ventre, much less to boast about the effect

of such

> garb, nor is it appropriate to solicit a new citizen of the opposite

sex to

> discuss his 'love tool.' This is hardly the path to pudicitia.

Neither,

> for that matter, is rejecting the gentle counsel of the learned

Julilla as

> to proper attire for a candidate, choosing instead the garb of the
> meretrices.

<snipped>

Salve,

That is an awful lot of words to simply say, "Don't vote for Diana
Moravia Avantina because I think she dresses and acts like a common
prostitute," since that is esentially what you have said. (Actually I
was thinking some lot less "flattering" terms than "common
prostitute", but this is a "family forum.")

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
Franciscus Apulus Caesar;

My apologies for the delay in my answer. I lost the message and couldn't find it!!!

In response to your questions:

1.--- What do you think about the reformation of the newsletter?

2.--- Are you the skills to do it?

3.--- Do you prefer leave the paper-version?

Answer #1, Regardless of what I think about it, the Senate, I believe, has decided that it will be so. It will save money, and it will make the "Eagle" articles more available for comment, exercise of opinion, and perhaps creativity as well. The determined change has the look of improving the "Eagle"in several ways. However, to further shed some light on this issue, another Newsletter for a Black Powder Shooting Club to which I belong has just this month shifted their newsletter to the internet, with retaining the paper-version for those who do not have a computer connection. The reasons cited for this change were exactly the same ones which have decided Nova Roma to do the same. I am honored to be a Vice-President in two such organizations, and both of these use and have used the internet for the unit newsletter, without my negative vote.

Answer #2, No, I probably do not have the ability at my fingertips to do everything that has been done. However, I have in the past singlehandly put together five issues in five months without any staff at all, and a very few contributors, except for the Pontifex Maximus who did the printing. I have been speaking with "Eagle" Staff members as I have said previously and finding out what they have been doing and can do, and I must tell you that I am very impressed. Does the "Eagle" staff as presently constituted, as with those who have an expressed a willingnes to stay on the Staff do the job with a determined and experienced Curator Differum -- I am sure that they together, will be fully able to do so.

Answer #3, Because there are a few Nova Romans who need a paper-version due to thier lack of or different computer connection, the present format wil still be available in small amounts.

I hope the above answers your questions . If they do not then please feel free to question me further. Any further questions I would ask to be directed to my home E-Mail address, for the reasons previously cited, and so that I can provide a more timely answer.

My thanks for this opportunity to answer your questions.

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

==========================================

"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salvete Candidates as Curator Differum,
>
> as you know there is a general invitation for the next year to
> create an electronic version of The Eagle, something like a
> newsletter of a PDF format by mail.
> For someone this could leave the expansive costs of the printing and
> the usual delay in the mailing.
> What do you think about this reformation of the newspaper?
> Are you the skills to do it? Do you prefer leave the paper-version?
>
> I would like to know because I think the official newspaper is one
> of the most important media of our community adn we could use it to
> improve our Res Publica.
> Please, gentlemen, consider me as professional editorial and web
> designer if you need suggestions and questions.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
Franciscus Apulus Caesar;

My apologies for the delay in my answer. I lost the message and couldn't find it!!!

In response to your questions:

1.--- What do you think about the reformation of the newsletter?

2.--- Are you the skills to do it?

3.--- Do you prefer leave the paper-version?

Answer #1, Regardless of what I think about it, the Senate, I believe, has decided that it will be so. It will save money, and it will make the "Eagle" articles more available for comment, exercise of opinion, and perhaps creativity as well. The determined change has the look of improving the "Eagle"in several ways. However, to further shed some light on this issue, another Newsletter for a Black Powder Shooting Club to which I belong has just this month shifted their newsletter to the internet, with retaining the paper-version for those who do not have a computer connection. The reasons cited for this change were exactly the same ones which have decided Nova Roma to do the same. I am honored to be a Vice-President in two such organizations, and both of these use and have used the internet for the unit newsletter, without my negative vote.

Answer #2, No, I probably do not have the ability at my fingertips to do everything that has been done. However, I have in the past singlehandly put together five issues in five months without any staff at all, and a very few contributors, except for the Pontifex Maximus who did the printing. I have been speaking with "Eagle" Staff members as I have said previously and finding out what they have been doing and can do, and I must tell you that I am very impressed. Does the "Eagle" staff as presently constituted, as with those who have an expressed a willingnes to stay on the Staff do the job with a determined and experienced Curator Differum -- I am sure that they together, will be fully able to do so.

Answer #3, Because there are a few Nova Romans who need a paper-version due to thier lack of or different computer connection, the present format wil still be available in small amounts.

I hope the above answers your questions . If they do not then please feel free to question me further. Any further questions I would ask to be directed to my home E-Mail address, for the reasons previously cited, and so that I can provide a more timely answer.

My thanks for this opportunity to answer your questions.

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

==========================================

"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salvete Candidates as Curator Differum,
>
> as you know there is a general invitation for the next year to
> create an electronic version of The Eagle, something like a
> newsletter of a PDF format by mail.
> For someone this could leave the expansive costs of the printing and
> the usual delay in the mailing.
> What do you think about this reformation of the newspaper?
> Are you the skills to do it? Do you prefer leave the paper-version?
>
> I would like to know because I think the official newspaper is one
> of the most important media of our community adn we could use it to
> improve our Res Publica.
> Please, gentlemen, consider me as professional editorial and web
> designer if you need suggestions and questions.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

Nova Romans!
I come to you with a request!

Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great statesman

has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that surgery
will
be needed to correct the problem.
All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the most tireless
workers
in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the Cursus
Honorum in
four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of Cornelius
Sulla. If not to
Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a community, let this
community pray for one of its own.
I express my thanks in advance.

Valete
Q, Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites,

Marcus Scipio Africanus writes:
[about the reenactor community]

> I have spoken with many of my colleagues, and we
> share the same mind on this. Perhaps what we are
> seeing, is an increasing need for Nova Roma to
> transcend from just a cyber micro-nation, to an actual
> flesh and blood micro-nation.

As you know from our conversations in the Militarium
I share your feelings in this Marce. I hope to be
able to encourage a significant increase in the number
of local get-togethers of Nova Romans next year.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salve Marinus,

> I have a message in my morning e-mail entitled "Vale"
> from Flavia Tullia, the author of the post which
> spawned this thread. She tells me she has unsubscribed
> from the Nova-Roma mailing list and is considering
> resigning her citizenship.

Maybe she (he?) is the same person who posted the other two 'hit and run' emails solely to make your
competition (me) look bad. She popped in this Forum *one time*, started in and then unsubscribed.
This is the same modus operandi as the T-Gurl and the "A Man of his Word" emails.

> I'll try to convince her to stay. It took me months
> to recruit her into NR after I met her at last
> summer's Roman Days.

Since he/she seems to be a friend of yours, tell her to come back and prove to us all that she is
not the troll who posted all 3 emails. I'll be IP checking her (his) last post in order to see if I
can get a match with the others.

Vale,
Diana

Salvete Quirites; et salve, M. Scipio.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...>
wrote:

<<snipped for brevity>>

> I have already started work on an official proposal
> for the Senate, detailing every aspect of this bold
> move. I would love to have some good discussion on
> the subject, and I would welcome assistance from
> others who have been members of other organizations
> that were like Nova Roma (not necessarily ancients)
> and who had systems in place to be both cyber and
> flesh and blood organizations.

Let me please inform you about the current state of affairs as far as
local groups and real life activities go.

We have a law that sets a framework to create local groups that can
be officially recognised by Nova Roma. That law is pretty new; it was
presented by the current Senior Consul and approved by the Comitia a
few weeks ago.

During my political campaign for the consulship, I have been talking
about my plan to encourage the creation of as many local groups as
possible. I intend to dedicate many of my efforts next year to
accomplish that goal (should I be elected, of course).

I am very interested in any thought you may have about the subject.
In fact, I am interested in everyones' ideas about local groups and
real life meetings, so I reiterate the invitation you, M. Scipio,
have written above.

A "Grand Gathering" would obviously a marvelous thing, and we have
been giving steps in that direction in the past few years. So far,
inter-provincial meetings have been arranged in two continents
(Europe and North America), although I agree that we should strive
for a greater number of assistants. The number of provincial meetings
is also on the increase. We should certainly work to continue in this
direction (and that, in my opinion, means founding those local
groups).

I'd dare to say, based on the reactions collected in the last few
weeks, that a significant part of the citizens of Nova Roma basically
agree with your ideas and expectations about this subject. Let's hope
that we can build a strong base of interested citizens during the
next months to achieve an important advancement in this issue.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve Scriboni,

Well said! As I mentioned a while back, there was never any racial
discrimination in the Roman Empire when it came to owning slaves.
There were probably black but many, tan, brown as well as a big share
of blue eyed blondes. Often in Roman times, household slaves became
part of the family and eventuallythey were freed and left the family
fortunes. I do not imagine that this happened as much, if at all in
America, Asia or Africa. Also what movies sell the most? Extreme
violence and sex from what I could see; the Romans didn't have the
technology to fake the deaths as we do today. Therefore I feel that
it is the pot calling the kettle black when we just dwell on the
negative aspects of Rome instead of admiring her accomplishments and
great contributions to western society that still exist today.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:

> Salve,
>
> For once I agree with Senator Drusus. LOL. I think today's

society has

> the Romans as an evil cruxifing race. I myself see the Romans as

preservers and

> founders of Western Civilization (Not to forget the Greeks as

founders as

> well). I go to a Catholic High School in Medi-Atlancita. It seems

that the

> students have a mind set that the Romans are, as Senator Drusus

said, everything

> wrong about human nature. I being a Nova Roman argue theirs false

ideas on Rome.

> Even for those whom don't think that about Rome they just seem to

think all

> there is to Rome are gladiators and Caesar. Even some of my family

members try to

> argue that the Romans were evil, wrong, crazy et cetera. I told

them to look

> at the time they lived in, how others in that time evolved. I even

say that

> every civilization had is faults. Even we in the USA segregated

peoples of

> African decent just because of their skin color. I then tell them

to think before

> they say that Romans are all evil. No Civilization is completely

evil. Everyone

> has the pros and cons. Tuesday in my history class we will be

starting a

> chapter on Ancient Rome. My teacher knows that I am an avid admire

of Rome and I

> speak about them 24 7. She has asked me to make a presentation in

front of the

> class. I will do so and I will tell them to not just think of Rome

as just

> some other civilization, but to get rid of their mind set as Romans

being evil

> and just gladiators and Caesar. To remember Rome as one of the

greatest

> civilizations that ever existed. Rome is everywhere. It is in every

culture, every

> idea, every heart, and every soul. Rome is forever......
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senator Q. Fabi Maxime,

Thank you for letting us know. My prayers as other Nova Romans are
with him now. I was wondering why he disappeared the last few days
for it is unlike him to be away from the list unless he has exams.
Please keep us up to date on his progress if you are in diract
contact with Sulla or his family.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> Nova Romans!
> I come to you with a request!
>
> Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great
statesman
>
> has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that
surgery
> will
> be needed to correct the problem.
> All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
> Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the most
tireless
> workers
> in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the
Cursus
> Honorum in
> four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
> I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of
Cornelius
> Sulla. If not to
> Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a community,
let this
> community pray for one of its own.
> I express my thanks in advance.
>
> Valete
> Q, Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caius Tarquitius Saturninus,

As soon as I saw your post I knew that this was a big screw up somehow. I know Cincinnatus pretty
well and besides being one of the finest people I know, he mentioned to me a month or two ago that
you had lost the first check and that he had sent you another. So I don't really like the way your
email sounded as if he intentionally didn't pay you when for all he knew you had recieved the second
check and just didn't have time to cash it. But ok, email is a difficult medium and things are on
their way to being settled now. You'll get a third check and everyone knows that Cincinnatus has
already sent you two.

<I wrote also e-mails to several members of your gens which were never answered.

It's too bad that you didn't contact his gensmate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus who besides living near
him is the guy to call when there are problems/questions with selling or buying stuff here. He could
have helped you contact him in about 5 minutes.

By the way, when you get a chance send me the link to your website with the statues. I've never
heard of anyone else who sells Priapus statues.

Vale,
Diana

Salve Drusus,

> No, it means that portion of the Lex is invalid.

Which is precisely why I have not asked for the auspices to be taken for the CPlebis Tributa voting.
However I have informed our augur of the voting dates in case some in-solicited omens appear. Since
I am sure that next year our Tribunes will come up with a new and better voting system, I will send
them a friendly reminder in January that thispart of my Lex certainly needs to be removed.
vale
Diana

Salvete omnes,

Please take a gander at this site. I got it thanks to Mary Harsch in
IR2. See what can be done when people put their mind to it. I sure we
can find some good ideas here. This is a definite must on my next
trip overseas.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

http://www.vindolanda.com/html/index_ie_shocked.html

Salve!

I did not have the impression that something like this could have happened,
from the conversation with Cincinnatus over the internet and on the phone.
That also was the reason why I waited very long to take any action, as I
thought he might be delayed by his moving. But I have already made myself clear. It
went all in a stupid way, and I gave him the wrong housenumber... (one could
have expected USPS still to deliver it correctly... but that is another
story...)

Well I just chose randomly among the gens members, how should I have known
that... :)

My site is linked to the macellum on the NR hp and is called Roma Aeterna.

> Salve Caius Tarquitius Saturninus,
>
> As soon as I saw your post I knew that this was a big screw up somehow. I
> know Cincinnatus pretty
> well and besides being one of the finest people I know, he mentioned to me
> a month or two ago that
> you had lost the first check and that he had sent you another. So I don't
> really like the way your
> email sounded as if he intentionally didn't pay you when for all he knew
> you had recieved the second
> check and just didn't have time to cash it. But ok, email is a difficult
> medium and things are on
> their way to being settled now. You'll get a third check and everyone
> knows that Cincinnatus has
> already sent you two.
>
> <I wrote also e-mails to several members of your gens which were never
> answered.
>
> It's too bad that you didn't contact his gensmate Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> who besides living near
> him is the guy to call when there are problems/questions with selling or
> buying stuff here. He could
> have helped you contact him in about 5 minutes.
>
> By the way, when you get a chance send me the link to your website with
> the statues. I've never
> heard of anyone else who sells Priapus statues.
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.


+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net

Salve Senator Quinte Fabi Maxime,

I am very sorry to hear of L. Cornelius Sulla's illness. Tomorrow, I shall
make an offering to Minerva Medica on his behalf. If you are able, please
convey to him my best wishes and hopes for a speedy recovery.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Salve Senator Q. Fabi Maxime;
I have posted a prayer for my frater over at the Jewish Sodalitas;
any from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) will be welcome...
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve Senator Q. Fabi Maxime,
>
> Thank you for letting us know. My prayers as other Nova Romans are
> with him now. I was wondering why he disappeared the last few days
> for it is unlike him to be away from the list unless he has exams.
> Please keep us up to date on his progress if you are in diract
> contact with Sulla or his family.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> > Nova Romans!
> > I come to you with a request!
> >
> > Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and

great

> statesman
> >
> > has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians

that

> surgery
> > will
> > be needed to correct the problem.
> > All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
> > Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the

most

> tireless
> > workers
> > in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the
> Cursus
> > Honorum in
> > four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
> > I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of
> Cornelius
> > Sulla. If not to
> > Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a

community,

> let this
> > community pray for one of its own.
> > I express my thanks in advance.
> >
> > Valete
> > Q, Fabius Maximus
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Illustri Q, Fabius Maximus!

I will pray to the Gods that they will support Illustri Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix and that Fortuna will stand by his side.

>Nova Romans!
>I come to you with a request!
>
>Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great statesman
>
>has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that surgery
>will
>be needed to correct the problem.
>All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
>Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the most tireless
>workers
>in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the Cursus
>Honorum in
>four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
>I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of Cornelius
>Sulla. If not to
>Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a community, let this
>community pray for one of its own.
>I express my thanks in advance.
>
>Valete
>Q, Fabius Maximus
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

AVETE CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

I whish to express my full support to Emilia Curia Finnica as to her
candidacy to the office of Aedilis Plebea for next year! I already
met her twice and worked with her during this year. I can assure all
of you she is a very reliable an serious person, and you can believe
me when I say she has the right skills to make a perfect plebeian
Aedile and properly serve our Republic!
Citizens of Nova Roma, I strongly invite you to vote for Emilia
Curia Finnica!!!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Legatvs
Accensvs

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to some interesting news on developments in
archaeological understanding of Etruscan demonology:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20031103/etruscan.html

The excavations at Pianacce have been ungoing since 2000 and are
revealing startling developments in Etruscan portrayal of death and
demons in frescos unearthed at a 4th-century BCE tomb on the site.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:

> And though it pains me to say it, that is entirely Roman. The

history shows that

> pattern over and over again. If it is not the Great Etruscan Gens

against the

> Lesser ones, then its the Patricians against the Plebes, the
> Optimates against the Popularii, the Senate against the Equites,

the Boni

> against Moderates. Later it is the Imperator against the Senate.

Finally the

> Religio against Christians.

Yes, there will always be disagreements. Yes, it's likely that there
will often be two polarised extremes on any given issue. But these
examples demonstrate that, for the historical Romans, the battle
lines were flexible. I think the danger at the moment is that
*fixed* factions based on personality could evolve, and I don't think
that would be in anyone's interests.

[on the Consular cohors]

> You have an ex facto Patron Client relationship, even though

everybody denies

> it. (Which I find very interesting).

I'm not one of the people who runs around saying there ought not to
be any patron/client type relationships in Nova Roma, if people are
aware of them when they enter in to them, and are prepared to honour
them.

However, I find this a very interesting assertion of yours, because
on a personal level it would put me in an even stranger position than
I already find myself. If I am a client of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus', and you are my Paterfamilias with all that entails,
what am I to do in the upcoming election if either (or more
specifically both) of you were to actually go so far as to ask me to
vote for you?

I am interested in this as a matter of historical precedent as much
as anything else - what would the situation have been like if
someone's patron came in to conflict with their paterfamilias?

Incidentally, I am very grateful to you both for leaving me - and I
presume the other Fabii - out of the fight entirely. I wouldn't want
this to destroy our gens, and I think it reflects well on the
characters of both gentlemen that they have not tried to split the
gens over it by asking for our support or even inquiring which way we
intend to vote.

> In
> fact at the feast day to Fortuna, only my two Anglenios, gens mates

Fabius

> Metellus and Prima Fabia were in attendance. A sad fact
> about a great Gens.

Hmm, I don't remember the invite to that one... ;)

Gaia Fabia Livia

AVETE OMNES CIVES NOVAE ROMAE

It is a honor for me to closely work with a citizen which always
showed a sincere love and an undefatigable dedication to our
Republic.
Franciscus Apulus Caesar started his activity in Nova Roma
by "building" Provincia Italia, that today is one of the biggest
Provinciae of Nova Roma.
While keeping being Propraetor in Italia, he started the Cursus
Honorum from the first step. His Quaestorship has been one of the
most active in Nova Roma. He produced several websites to host the
Ludi of our Republic, and he himself organized a lot of games.
Then you elected him to the position of Aedilis Curulis, and during
his Aedilship, besides organizing more and more exciting games, he
was able to lead the project of Magna Mater (which started during
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus' Aedilship) to a point which nobody would
imagine, that is to a close collaboration between us and two
outstanding institutions like the University of Rome and the
Archaelogical "Sovrintendenza di Roma".
Well, I decided to write a summary, but I could write much more
about this man.
Citizens of Nova Roma, after three years of undefatigable service to
the Republic, Franciscus Apulus Caesar asks you to trust him once
more and to give him your vote for the position of Tribunus Plebis.
He always served our Res Publica. He will keep doing it!
Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Tribunus Plebis!!!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Legatvs
Accensvs

Salve Tribune et Omnes

There is one thing I would like to make clear about this, the Decretum
should in no way be considered a rebuke of Tribune Moravia or the Plebs
who voted for her Lex. I Commend you for your attempt to bring the Rites
of the Religio more into the Public. Nova Roma would be a better place
if more of us did what Tribune Moravia attempted to do, take notice of
the Immortals.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifix

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> Salve Drusus,
>
> > No, it means that portion of the Lex is invalid.
>
> Which is precisely why I have not asked for the auspices to be taken
> for the CPlebis Tributa voting.
> However I have informed our augur of the voting dates in case some
> in-solicited omens appear. Since
> I am sure that next year our Tribunes will come up with a new and
> better voting system, I will send
> them a friendly reminder in January that thispart of my Lex certainly
> needs to be removed.
> vale
> Diana
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c4qlgq6/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070663521/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

Salve Diana,

You suggested:

> Maybe she (he?) is the same person who posted the other two 'hit and run'
> emails solely to make your competition (me) look bad.

I'd be astonished if that were the case, though I suppose it is possible.

> She popped in this Forum *one time*, started in and then unsubscribed.

She has posted to the mediatlanticaprovincia list in the past.

Her registered e-mail address is flavia@... and looking at the
headers of one of her messages I see it originating from IP address
69.48.15.62 Octavius can compare that with whatever he captured from the
post by the anonymous poster.

She was at Roman Days last summer. I think you met her. She's an older lady,
with long blonde-going-gray hair. She rode down with some of the Legio XXX
guys from Buffalo. She's a big friend of Matthew Amt, the Centurion of Legio
XX, and she was looking askance at your belly-dance outfit then. I think her
disapproval is just something that has festered all this time.

Anyhow, if you or Octavius would like to know more from me about her, her
message headers, or anything else about her I can tell you, contact me
off-list and we'll see what we can find. But I really think this is just a
case of a proper old woman who is an academic and a Classicist being
scandalized by something she saw.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salvete G. Iliui Scaure et omnes,

Thanks for the article about Etruscan demonology seen in art and
items. I just wanted to add another thought on to this article. It
seems that fear of demonic creatures may go back very far in time.
Here is an article about were creatures going back 10,000 years:



http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news279.htm



What I find interesting is how history may repeat itself some day. I
was recently reading about the possibility of creating human chimeras
(maned after the Greek mythological monster that was part lion,
serpent, bird etc) to be used for exploration of hostile environments
etc. Some scientist believe this might be achieved sooner or later.
Greek mythological creatures recreated would certainly respark the
fears and negative dreams of the ancient world don't you think?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@w...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.
>
> Salvete, Quirites.
>
> Here's a link to some interesting news on developments in
> archaeological understanding of Etruscan demonology:
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20031103/etruscan.html
>
> The excavations at Pianacce have been ungoing since 2000 and are
> revealing startling developments in Etruscan portrayal of death and
> demons in frescos unearthed at a 4th-century BCE tomb on the site.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus

Bill Gawne wrote:

> Salve Diana,
>
> You suggested:
>
> > Maybe she (he?) is the same person who posted the other two 'hit and
> run'
> > emails solely to make your competition (me) look bad.
>
> I'd be astonished if that were the case, though I suppose it is possible.
>
> > She popped in this Forum *one time*, started in and then unsubscribed.
>
> She has posted to the mediatlanticaprovincia list in the past.
>
> Her registered e-mail address is flavia@... and looking at the
> headers of one of her messages I see it originating from IP address
> 69.48.15.62 Octavius can compare that with whatever he captured from the
> post by the anonymous poster.
>
> She was at Roman Days last summer. I think you met her. She's an
> older lady,
> with long blonde-going-gray hair. She rode down with some of the Legio XXX
> guys from Buffalo. She's a big friend of Matthew Amt, the Centurion
> of Legio
> XX, and she was looking askance at your belly-dance outfit then. I
> think her
> disapproval is just something that has festered all this time.
>
> Anyhow, if you or Octavius would like to know more from me about her, her
> message headers, or anything else about her I can tell you, contact me
> off-list and we'll see what we can find. But I really think this is
> just a
> case of a proper old woman who is an academic and a Classicist being
> scandalized by something she saw.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus

Salve,

I Tend to agree with Marinus that this wasn't linked to the other
incidents, and will go farther to state that the only link between the
other two incidents might be that the "t-gurl" saw the uproar over the
pseudo citizen and thought it would be funny to pull a similar prank.
Copycats are not unknown. We can only guess unless we actually catch the
individual(s).

I Cared little for Flavia's post, and less for her reason for leaving.
The idea she can tear into Diana Moravia and be above reproach after
doing so isn't a concept that I agree with. If you can't take it, don't
dish it out.

L. Sicinius Drusus

In a message dated 12/4/03 4:11:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
livia@... writes:
Salvete
Since you asked me this publically I'll answer in the same venue.

> If I am a client of Caeso Fabius
> Quintilianus', and you are my Paterfamilias with all that entails,
> what am I to do in the upcoming election if either (or more
> specifically both) of you were to actually go so far as to ask me to
> vote for you?
>

If you honor your Patron, then Fabius. Since NR does not recognize Patria
Potestas, for obvious reasons, if you were to vote for me, it either would be in
recognition of my abilities or a sign of respect. Not because I so ordered
it.

> I am interested in this as a matter of historical precedent as much
> as anything else - what would the situation have been like if
> someone's patron came in to conflict with their paterfamilias?
>

Cicero felt that you honor your Patron until he dishonors himself. Then you
would be free to find a new Patron. My view would be within the Republic the
Paterfamilias relationship with his filafamilia would be the overriding
factor. Rome respected that authority and crafted leges to presurve it. So it had
to take precedent. And all Patrons would respect that authority. So if the
conflict existed, and the Patron insisted on him being so favored, he
dishonored himself, and the client released from the obligation.

> Incidentally, I am very grateful to you both for leaving me - and I
> presume the other Fabii - out of the fight entirely. I wouldn't want
> this to destroy our gens, and I think it reflects well on the
> characters of both gentlemen that they have not tried to split the
> gens over it by asking for our support or even inquiring which way we
> intend to vote.
>

I will, as Paterfamilias of the Fabii, post my own recomendations of who
should be voted on and why before the vote, but it is just the learned advice of
the old man following tradition, and my Gens are free to ignore it if they have
their own preference.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> When you had a vendetta against him, you didn't care how many people got
> hurt in the process, people like Marius who was hounded from Nova Roma.

Now you're trying to convince the citizens that the departures of 2001
were somehow my fault?

Truly, there is no limit to the lies and distortions that you will stoop
to in a feeble attempt discredit me and my friends.

The proverbial "last straw" triggering the mass exodus of the Ides of March 2001
was the Senate voting against the renewal of the governorship of Livia Marcia
Aurelia, formerly Livia Cornelia Aurelia.

You have access to the Senate list. Review message #2339 and you will see that
I voted *for* the retention of Livia Marcia, not against it.

In their departure letters on or around 2001/03/15, some of these citizens
listed the people that drove them away.

http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-03-15.html
Livia Marcia Aurelia wrote:
...people whom I have come to regard in all forms as sacer and deserving
only of contempt: namely, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Marcus Cassius Julianus.
M. Marcius Rex wrote:
I could live with an Octavius, a Cassius and certainly with a Minucius Audens
but I can only leave with a [Vedius] Germanicus, a Fabulus Maximus and a
Pornelius Sulla.

Another exodus occurred in December:
http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-12-15.html
Formosanus departed in December of that year. He wrote as he left:
"L. Cornelius Sulla "Felix" ... was the individual guilty of the outrages
against kindness, fairness and normal non-discriminatory practice in his
grossly unfair treatment of Marius Peregrinus ...
http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-12-22.html
S. Apollonius Draco resigned, writing:
Inspiring examples of Romanitas for me were people such as Titus Labienus,
Marcus Octavius...Caeso Fabius...
In contrast... my opponents... Quintus Fabius... Lucius Sicinius...
Lucius Cornelius. [he does have a few nice things to say about two
of these opponents; full text available at the URL above]

So, there you have it. Of those departing citizens who wrote of who drove
them away, the current allies of L. Sicinius Drusus - the so-called "Boni" -
are the ones who are most often named. None of them spoke ill of me,
or of Caeso Fabius.

> Then you had a falling out with your fellow Consul and launched a Pogram
> against his entire Gens that was quite Nasty and Public before going
> into the Senate.

Program? Pogrom? Penguin?

My goal was to give them the right to leave that gens if they chose to
do so. Hardly equal to mass murder.

Will you next accuse me of killing the Lindbergh baby?

> You are developing a reputation as someone who doesn't care how much
> collateral damage they cause once they develop a grudge against someone.

If someone whose opinion matters tells me I have such a reputation,
I'll take heed. Until then, your own incredibly biased opinion of me is of
no more consequence than a fart in a hurricane.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

ROFL,
The Fisrt time I took part in a political campaign I was 11 years old
and passing out campaign materials during the 1968 Presidental Campaign,
after 35 years of involvement in politics I'm quite capable of
recognizing political actions.

I Mentioned Marius, not anyone else who left. You supported the lex that
was the primary reason for his departure, and supported it mainly due to
your dislike of Formosanus.

You NEVER showed intrest in Gens reform until you had a falling out with
Sulla then all of a sudden you were Hell bent to use it as an excuse to
tear his Gens apart, and proceded without any intrest in any damage your
crusade would do to Nova Roma. You were clearly after Sulla and didn't
care who got hurt in the process.

Where is Cornelia? They were quite active in Nova Roma BEFORE you tried
to "liberate" them.

Drusus

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > When you had a vendetta against him, you didn't care how many people got
> > hurt in the process, people like Marius who was hounded from Nova Roma.
>
> Now you're trying to convince the citizens that the departures of 2001
> were somehow my fault?
>
> Truly, there is no limit to the lies and distortions that you will stoop
> to in a feeble attempt discredit me and my friends.
>
> The proverbial "last straw" triggering the mass exodus of the Ides of
> March 2001
> was the Senate voting against the renewal of the governorship of Livia
> Marcia
> Aurelia, formerly Livia Cornelia Aurelia.
>
> You have access to the Senate list. Review message #2339 and you will
> see that
> I voted *for* the retention of Livia Marcia, not against it.
>
> In their departure letters on or around 2001/03/15, some of these citizens
> listed the people that drove them away.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-03-15.html
> Livia Marcia Aurelia wrote:
> ...people whom I have come to regard in all forms as sacer and
> deserving
> only of contempt: namely, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix,
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Marcus Cassius Julianus.
> M. Marcius Rex wrote:
> I could live with an Octavius, a Cassius and certainly with a
> Minucius Audens
> but I can only leave with a [Vedius] Germanicus, a Fabulus Maximus
> and a
> Pornelius Sulla.
>
> Another exodus occurred in December:
> http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-12-15.html
> Formosanus departed in December of that year. He wrote as he left:
> "L. Cornelius Sulla "Felix" ... was the individual guilty of the
> outrages
> against kindness, fairness and normal non-discriminatory practice
> in his
> grossly unfair treatment of Marius Peregrinus ...
> http://www.novaroma.org/forum/mainlist/2001/2001-12-22.html
> S. Apollonius Draco resigned, writing:
> Inspiring examples of Romanitas for me were people such as Titus
> Labienus,
> Marcus Octavius...Caeso Fabius...
> In contrast... my opponents... Quintus Fabius... Lucius Sicinius...
> Lucius Cornelius. [he does have a few nice things to say about two
> of these opponents; full text available at the URL above]
>
> So, there you have it. Of those departing citizens who wrote of who drove
> them away, the current allies of L. Sicinius Drusus - the so-called
> "Boni" -
> are the ones who are most often named. None of them spoke ill of me,
> or of Caeso Fabius.
>
> > Then you had a falling out with your fellow Consul and launched a Pogram
> > against his entire Gens that was quite Nasty and Public before going
> > into the Senate.
>
> Program? Pogrom? Penguin?
>
> My goal was to give them the right to leave that gens if they chose to
> do so. Hardly equal to mass murder.
>
> Will you next accuse me of killing the Lindbergh baby?
>
> > You are developing a reputation as someone who doesn't care how much
> > collateral damage they cause once they develop a grudge against someone.
>
> If someone whose opinion matters tells me I have such a reputation,
> I'll take heed. Until then, your own incredibly biased opinion of me
> is of
> no more consequence than a fart in a hurricane.
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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>
>
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Q. Fabius Maximus wrote:

> Cicero felt that you honor your Patron until he dishonors himself.

Then you

> would be free to find a new Patron. My view would be within the

Republic the

> Paterfamilias relationship with his filafamilia would be the

overriding

> factor. Rome respected that authority and crafted leges to

presurve it. So it had

> to take precedent. And all Patrons would respect that authority.

So if the

> conflict existed, and the Patron insisted on him being so favored,

he

> dishonored himself, and the client released from the obligation.

That's a very clever failsafe - I like that; very neat. Thank you
for sharing it :)

Gaia Fabia Livia

Ah, that wonderful Yahoogroups service! I got this 6 hours after it was
posted.

Information on COPA or COPPA (it's refered to by both acronyms) can be
found on the website of the US Government agency that oversees it, the FTC.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/kidzprivacy/index.html

L. Sicinius Drusus

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:

> Salve Quirites!
>
> At the moment I am investigating if Nova Roman laws and especially
> "Lex Fabia Civitate Minorum" is in compliance with laws like COPA in
> USA. I am trying to investigate the legislation in USA and UK to
> begin with.
>
> I am no expert so I will try to get more precise answers for those
> who are or can consult such. I hope the citizens will be able to wait
> for an answer to this question just some more.
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
> Propraetor Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Consulis CFQ
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ceoisnn/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070653986/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
>
>
>
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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Salve,

I am very sad to hear of L. Cornelius Sulla's illness. I will pray to my
God, The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, to bless him and to give him
strength to overcome his illness and surgery. I shay say a prayer for him
tonight. Send him my blessings.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo Pontifici salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Fabi.

I have today offered to Pater Quirinus to safeguard senator and
consular L. Cornelius in his time of illness. I recommend to all
practitioners of the Religio that they offer to the Gods for his safe
recovery and request that those of other faiths make such remebrances
of L. Cornelius to their Deities as appropriate.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus Gaiae Fabiae Liviae salutem dicit.

Salve, G. Fabia.

> However, I find this a very interesting assertion of yours, because
> on a personal level it would put me in an even stranger position than
> I already find myself. If I am a client of Caeso Fabius
> Quintilianus', and you are my Paterfamilias with all that entails,
> what am I to do in the upcoming election if either (or more
> specifically both) of you were to actually go so far as to ask me to
> vote for you?
>
> I am interested in this as a matter of historical precedent as much
> as anything else - what would the situation have been like if
> someone's patron came in to conflict with their paterfamilias?

Get married in manu... quickly... you've given them both the idea now
:-).

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
(who hopes even the humour-impaired will recognise a joke)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:

> Nova Romans!
> I come to you with a request!
>
> Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great

statesman

>
> has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that

surgery

> will
> be needed to correct the problem.
> All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.

Salve,

I will certainly be praying for Sulla's speedy recovery. Please send
him my best wishes and regards.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Internet sites in violation of COPA can be fined up to 50,000 dollars a
> day for every day they are in violation.
>
> I'm asking again what do you intend to do to insure that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with national laws regulating the privacy of Minors?

Something like this perhaps?

if ( ($cgi{birthyear} > ($thisyear-13)) ||
(($cgi{birthyear} == ($thisyear-13)) &&
($cgi{birthmonth}>=$thismonth)))
{
errorAbort("Sorry, but due to US law we cannot accept personal information from anyone under 13.");
}


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Appivs Tullivs Cato Senatori Q. Fabi Maxime S.P.D.

This news has greatly saddened my heart. Although not in touch
with Lucius Cornelius for quite some time, he is a great Nova Roman
that I have always had great respect for, and I consider him a
friend, and a great contributer to the Res Publica.
I will certainly make an offering of frankincense, wine, and
little cakes at our family lararium, with prayers to Apollo Medicus,
and Aesculapius.
Please forward our best wishes to Lucius Cornelius for a
successful operation, and complete recovery, and assure him that our
prayers are with him. We look forward to his returning to us as soon
he is able. May our Gods and Goddesses be with him now, and give him
strength and good health.

Ben vale et Pax Deorum, Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@w...> wrote:

> G. Iulius Scaurus Gaiae Fabiae Liviae salutem dicit.

> Get married in manu... quickly... you've given them both the idea now
> :-).
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> (who hopes even the humour-impaired will recognise a joke)

Just make sure it's not a confarreatio marriage though. That is a
very permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> I Mentioned Marius, not anyone else who left.

You wrote: "people like Marius who was hounded from Nova Roma."

If by that you meant Marius and Marius alone, say so. To those of us
with competence in the English language, however, "people like" implies
that there were others.

> You supported the lex that
> was the primary reason for his departure, and supported it mainly due to
> your dislike of Formosanus.

Yes, I did. I have spoken with Marius since his departure, and there
is no ill will between us (in fact, for some time after that, I hosted
Marius' web site). I have also since admitted publicly that I
was wrong to have supported it.

Where is your condemnation for the others involved? L. Cornelius and
Q. Fabius were more vocal in support of that policy than I ever was,
and have not apologized - yet you seem awfully chummy with them these
days. Which is it - is it wrong to have supported that lex or not?


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

The Lex says we accept Minors, not Minors over a certain age.

We need a permission that is verifiable via a parent if someone is under
13. We also have to have a privacy notice on the mainpage and procedures
to safegaurd the privacy of minors.

That just covers US liability, other Nations may have laws that require
additional steps.

Drusus

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

>
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > Internet sites in violation of COPA can be fined up to 50,000 dollars a
> > day for every day they are in violation.
> >
> > I'm asking again what do you intend to do to insure that Nova Roma is in
> > compliance with national laws regulating the privacy of Minors?
>
> Something like this perhaps?
>
> if ( ($cgi{birthyear} > ($thisyear-13)) ||
> (($cgi{birthyear} == ($thisyear-13)) &&
> ($cgi{birthmonth}>=$thismonth)))
> {
> errorAbort("Sorry, but due to US law we cannot accept personal
> information from anyone under 13.");
> }
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cc7o9dj/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070678527/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116732>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

Salve Gens Corneli

L. Cornelius Sulla is in our prayers
Mi Shabayrach

Oh faithful healer of the sick, hear our prayers. We call unto you at this hour of need for our loved ones, neighbors and friends. Heed our prayers. Thou who art a loving father to all thy children guide their doctors, nurses and care givers. Endow them with skill and patience so that they may be thy messengers to restore the sick to health and useful living. Amen.



Pax

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A request to Romans


Nova Romans!
I come to you with a request!

Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great statesman

has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that surgery
will
be needed to correct the problem.
All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the most tireless
workers
in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the Cursus
Honorum in
four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of Cornelius
Sulla. If not to
Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a community, let this
community pray for one of its own.
I express my thanks in advance.

Valete
Q, Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

>
> Where is your condemnation for the others involved? L. Cornelius and
> Q. Fabius were more vocal in support of that policy than I ever was,
> and have not apologized - yet you seem awfully chummy with them these
> days. Which is it - is it wrong to have supported that lex or not?
>

It was wrong to have supported that Lex, and the people who were wrong
including you, Lucius Cornelius, Quintus Fabius, and everyone else who
supported it. My Friends who supported it are well aware of my position.

It started out with good intentions, a desire to have correct Roman
Names, but the execution of that intent was horrible, and the damage to
Nova Roma exceeded any "good" that came from not having one biological
woman using a mans name. Neither side in that debacle are free from
blame, the tactics used by the foes of that law made it almost
impossible for the supporters to back down.

The part of the whole sorry episode that galls me the most is too many
people didn't learn a key lesson from that mess, no matter how good you
think a plan is, if it causes a bitter fight with more damage done to
this organization than good, then it is NOT good for Nova Roma.

It's no secret that I think Nova Roma would be a better place if it was
more historic, and that includes the Gens, but I do NOT favor a
legislative plan to force people to be more historic. I Would love to
see a Gens reform plan that would ALLOW Gens to be more historic, but
would oppose one that would FORCE any Gens to be more historic. I Would
love to see more Historic Names, but am opposed to FORCING someone to
change to a more historic name.

If Any one has a plan to make Nova Roma better (from their viewpoint),
be it to make it more modern or more historic, step back and look at it
to see if you are going to touch off another long bitter fight, because
if you are then 99 times out of 100 the damage will exceed the value,
and Nova Roma will NOT be a better place.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
As you know from our conversations in the Militarium

> I share your feelings in this Marce. I hope to be
> able to encourage a significant increase in the
> number of local get-togethers of Nova Romans next

year.


I have spoken to several within my provincia about
this very same idea tonight, and with the permission
of our Honorable Propraetor, and the blessings of the
Senate, we plan to establish two such municipalities,
and test out this new format that the Republic has
ushered into law. We hope to serve as a test model
for its workability, and over the next year, help to
fine tune it if it becomes obvious that is needed.

M. Scipio Africanus
Tribunus Augusticlavii

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

The voting program has been modified to comply with new leges.

If you'd like to see or test it, go to:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/voting/c_cent/cista?votercode=1AAA11

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Has this new law been posted to the library yet? I would love to
read it to gain a better understanding, and an idea of how to
proceed. I would like to see a "prototype" of this project set up
and running in my home province of Lacus Magni, to test it out.

M. Scipio Africanus

Salve Drusus

Very good.

Vale
~ Servius

-----Original Message-----
From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@...>
Sent: Dec 4, 2003 11:32 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Collateral Damage

<html><body>


<tt>
<BR>
<BR>
Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:<BR>
<BR>

><BR>
> Where is your condemnation for the others involved?  L. Cornelius and<BR>
> Q. Fabius were more vocal in support of that policy than I ever was,<BR>
> and have not apologized - yet you seem awfully chummy with them these<BR>
> days.  Which is it - is it wrong to have supported that lex or not?<BR>
><BR>

It was wrong to have supported that Lex, and the people who were wrong <BR>
including you, Lucius Cornelius, Quintus Fabius, and everyone else who <BR>
supported it. My Friends who supported it are well aware of my position.<BR>
<BR>
It started out with good intentions, a desire to have correct Roman <BR>
Names, but the execution of that intent was horrible, and the damage to <BR>
Nova Roma exceeded any "good" that came from not having one biological <BR>
woman using a mans name. Neither side in that debacle are free from <BR>
blame, the tactics used by the foes of that law made it almost <BR>
impossible for the supporters to back down.<BR>
<BR>
The part of the whole sorry episode that galls me the most is too many <BR>
people didn't learn a key lesson from that mess, no matter how good you <BR>
think a plan is, if it causes a bitter fight with more damage done to <BR>
this organization than good, then it is NOT good for Nova Roma.<BR>
<BR>
It's no secret that I think Nova Roma would be a better place if it was <BR>
more historic, and that includes the Gens, but I do NOT favor a <BR>
legislative plan to force people to be more historic. I Would love to <BR>
see a Gens reform plan that would ALLOW Gens to be more historic, but <BR>
would oppose one that would FORCE any Gens to be more historic. I Would <BR>
love to see more Historic Names, but am opposed to FORCING someone to <BR>
change to a more historic name.<BR>
<BR>
If Any one has a plan to make Nova Roma better (from their viewpoint), <BR>
be it to make it more modern or more historic, step back and look at it <BR>
to see if you are going to touch off another long bitter fight, because <BR>
if you are then 99 times out of 100 the damage will exceed the value, <BR>
and Nova Roma will NOT be a better place.<BR>
<BR>
L. Sicinius Drusus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Avete Omnes,

I hope to have the following information clarifed:

Are these meetings going to be "sponsored by Nova Roma?"

(Please just give a yes or no answer.)

If the answer is Yes, is the Propraetor going to purchase insurance
to cover any potential liabilities?

If there is not going to be any purchase of insurance then I
certainly hope that these meetings will not be sponsored by Nova
Roma; and instead be private meetings/get together.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...>
wrote:

>
> --- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...> wrote:
> As you know from our conversations in the Militarium
> > I share your feelings in this Marce. I hope to be
> > able to encourage a significant increase in the
> > number of local get-togethers of Nova Romans next
> year.
>
>
> I have spoken to several within my provincia about
> this very same idea tonight, and with the permission
> of our Honorable Propraetor, and the blessings of the
> Senate, we plan to establish two such municipalities,
> and test out this new format that the Republic has
> ushered into law. We hope to serve as a test model
> for its workability, and over the next year, help to
> fine tune it if it becomes obvious that is needed.
>
> M. Scipio Africanus
> Tribunus Augusticlavii
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/

Salve Gn. Equiti,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salvete quirites,
>
> I have a message in my morning e-mail entitled "Vale"
> from Flavia Tullia, the author of the post which
> spawned this thread. She tells me she has unsubscribed
> from the Nova-Roma mailing list and is considering
> resigning her citizenship.

I don't blame her for being embarrassed and consider leaving, she
really put her foot in her mouth and received an appropriate and
expected dressing down from several citizens. However, she shouldn't
resign her citizenship for making a mistake but apologize for her
inappropriate remarks and continue on.

> I'll try to convince her to stay. It took me months
> to recruit her into NR after I met her at last
> summer's Roman Days. Yes, she is an older lady, and
> perhaps a bit more proper in her outlook than most,
> but I think she can be of significant value to NR
> and I'd hate to lose her over this.

By all means try to convince her to stay but don't whitewash what she
did when you speak to her. Her next post should be an apology.

You know, to be quite honest, Marinus, I am bit embarrassed for you
because of your reaction to this event. You seem more concerned about
keeping this older lady in Nova Roma than by any injury to the
dignitas and auctoritas of a distinguished magistrate and sacerdos
Veneris, who is also supposedly your friend. I think your judgment
and concern is way out of whack regarding this whole affair.

Vale,

Palladius

--- Robert Woolwine <alexious@...> wrote:

> Avete Omnes,
>
> I hope to have the following information clarifed:
>
> Are these meetings going to be "sponsored by Nova
> Roma?"

If the answer is Yes, is the Propraetor going to

> purchase insurance
> to cover any potential liabilities?

Very good questions Honorable Senator, and I hope to
answer them for you. This is a new concept for Nova
Roma. One which a great many people want to see
blossom. The overall idea is of coarse for these to
be official Nova Roma events. I reenact in several
different other time periods, and I have some
knowledge of insurance. There is a special sort of
policy which is used for reenactment organizations,
that is fairly cheap. I will dig up more information
on this to present officially.

M. Scipio Africanus
Tribunus Augusticlavii

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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Salvete Omnes,

I found out about L. Cornelius Sulla's illness the other day on the
Gens Cornelia list. Indeed, the surgery that he is facing is serious;
I know, I had the same kind of surgery about 20 years ago. It was
most definately NOT fun.

I will be praying to Aesculapius for his wellbeing while under the
knife and his speedy recovery.

Valete
Livia Cornelia Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> Nova Romans!
> I come to you with a request!
>
> Our own L. Cornelius Sulla, Paterfamilias of the Corneli, and great
statesman
>
> has fallen gravely ill. It has been decided by his physicians that
surgery
> will
> be needed to correct the problem.
> All surgery is life threatening, and we could lose him.
> Those who do not know of L. Cornelius Sulla, he is one of the most
tireless
> workers
> in the Rome. He was one of its first members and completed the
Cursus
> Honorum in
> four years! He has done much for Nova Roma.
> I request all the people here in Roma to pray for the health of
Cornelius
> Sulla. If not to
> Aesculapius, then to the deity of your choice. We are a community,
let this
> community pray for one of its own.
> I express my thanks in advance.
>
> Valete
> Q, Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Octavius,

I have discovered one bug in the program: it allows you to vote for
more choices than allowed. I deliberately check all 5 of the mock
candidates for Praetor, even though it says "(2 Openings)". I then
clicked the "Submit Vote" button and the program allowed this and
displayed the "Vote Accepted" page without so much as a warning.

Vale,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:

>
> The voting program has been modified to comply with new leges.
>
> If you'd like to see or test it, go to:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/voting/c_cent/cista?votercode=1AAA11
>
> Valete, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/

Salvete omnes,

The answer is obvious: A temporary injury to pride is NOT equal to the permanent loss of a Citizen. I say temporary because
Marinus DID say Flavia Tullia should apologize (and I feel that Diana should accept the apology, on the grounds that F. Tullia is new, so long as the apology is sinsere. An offering should also be made to Venus, who is the One truly offended here).

No offense intended Palladius my friend, but it is neither your place to be embarrassed for my kinsman nor for you to decide whether or not Diana accepts such an apology if proffered. You may at most suggest that she refuse the apology, just as I shall recommend that she accept it, just as I recommend to Flavia Tullia that she offer the apology. I've put my foot in it myself in my short time here, have always apologized and been far the better for it: These people I have clashed with have turned out to be good people, every time.

Valete
~ Servius Equitius


-----Original Message-----
From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
Sent: Dec 5, 2003 12:31 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: de delectu consulum

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve Gn. Equiti, <BR>
<BR>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <BR>
<gawne@c...> wrote:<BR>

> Salvete quirites,<BR>
> <BR>
> I have a message in my morning e-mail entitled "Vale"<BR>
> from Flavia Tullia, the author of the post which<BR>
> spawned this thread.  She tells me she has unsubscribed<BR>
> from the Nova-Roma mailing list and is considering<BR>
> resigning her citizenship.<BR>

<BR>
I don't blame her for being embarrassed and consider leaving, she <BR>
really put her foot in her mouth and received an appropriate and <BR>
expected dressing down from several citizens. However, she shouldn't <BR>
resign her citizenship for making a mistake but apologize for her <BR>
inappropriate remarks and continue on. <BR>
<BR>

> I'll try to convince her to stay.  It took me months<BR>
> to recruit her into NR after I met her at last<BR>
> summer's Roman Days.  Yes, she is an older lady, and<BR>
> perhaps a bit more proper in her outlook than most,<BR>
> but I think she can be of significant value to NR<BR>
> and I'd hate to lose her over this.<BR>

<BR>
By all means try to convince her to stay but don't whitewash what she <BR>
did when you speak to her. Her next post should be an apology. <BR>
<BR>
You know, to be quite honest, Marinus, I am bit embarrassed for you <BR>
because of your reaction to this event. You seem more concerned about <BR>
keeping this older lady in Nova Roma than by any injury to the <BR>
dignitas and auctoritas of a distinguished magistrate and sacerdos <BR>
Veneris, who is also supposedly your friend. I think your judgment <BR>
and concern is way out of whack regarding this whole affair. <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Palladius<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Salvete Quirites; et salve, M. Scipio.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...>

<<snipped>>

> I have spoken to several within my provincia about
> this very same idea tonight, and with the permission
> of our Honorable Propraetor, and the blessings of the
> Senate, we plan to establish two such municipalities,
> and test out this new format that the Republic has
> ushered into law. We hope to serve as a test model
> for its workability, and over the next year, help to
> fine tune it if it becomes obvious that is needed.
>
> M. Scipio Africanus

Excellent!
I intend to create a municipium in my own hometown in the next few
months, so we will be sharing experiences over the ocean :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salvete Quirites; et salve, M. Scipio.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@y...>
wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Very good questions Honorable Senator, and I hope to
> answer them for you. This is a new concept for Nova
> Roma. One which a great many people want to see
> blossom. The overall idea is of coarse for these to
> be official Nova Roma events. I reenact in several
> different other time periods, and I have some
> knowledge of insurance. There is a special sort of
> policy which is used for reenactment organizations,
> that is fairly cheap. I will dig up more information
> on this to present officially.
>
> M. Scipio Africanus

Please do it.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

In a message dated 12/4/03 8:40:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
drusus@... writes:

> Where is your condemnation for the others involved? L. Cornelius and
> Q. Fabius were more vocal in support of that policy than I ever was,
> and have not apologized - yet you seem awfully chummy with them these
> days. Which is it - is it wrong to have supported that lex or not?
>

Salvete Romans.
As the Senior Consul who was in charge of Nova Roma when this schismatic
edictum was issued and later codified, I am the one to take the blame. However,
the reasons for this Censor edict was born of necessity and reflected the times
of Nova Roma three years ago.
Nova Roma was fighting for her existence. We had just come out of a
Constitutional war that saw a Consul dismissed, several prominent Nova Romans forced
to resign, a dictator appointed to rewrite the Constitution, a new Consul
elected, after the dictator stepped down. Nova Roma had split temporary in three,
and the dictator was the first step in repairing the damage.
The Censor office was in complete disarray when L. Cornelius Sulla took over
in the new year of my Consulship as the sole operational Censor (the other
would soon resign). I remember he showed me the mess he inherited. ( I live
40 miles from his home in the San Gabriel valley). While he was engaged with
straightening this out, he received a bizarre request from one his best
friends. Now, this friend was a Roman amateur historian, could speak and read
flawless Latin, was a member of the IX Hispania legio, and oversaw the Forum as its
curator. The problem was this Roman was trapped in a female body. She wanted
to reenter her gender on the Rolls as male. Not in her macronational nation,
the United States, but only in Nova Roma.
Now I use the word "problem" very carefully. At the time, NR was bargaining
with the J. P Getty Foundation to allow us to do two things. One give us
grant money as part of a Roman historical study, two let us use the gardens of
the Santa Monica property to hold a Western Roman Days. The property is an
exact copy of a Roman Villa. I'm sure many of you have seen it. It is quite
famous.
The most important thing to remember here, is Nova Roma's credability. Or
lack of same. We were competing with a on line role playing game called Ancient
Sites. When I say competing, I mean we had citizens of Nova Roma involved.
I myself I had a paid membership. I resigned when I became Consul, figuring
I'd have little time to role play, running Nova Roma. I was right.
The Getty wanted to be sure that Nova Roma was a serious study of Roman
history, before they gave us a red cent. So that meant no "RPG"
Along comes Cornelius Sulla to me and Minucius Audens about his dilemma.
Minucius and I decided to see what the former Censors did about this Roman. So
we sent Cornelius back to discuss this with his former colleagues. This was
never done in a vacuum. Prominent Roman statesmen (our former Censors) were
involved as advisers to Cornelius. The fact was, this Roman in my and Cornelius
view, was trying to take advantage of Cornelius' friendship. Least that was
the way I saw it. No other Censor was ever approached, and this Roman seemed
satisfied with her status. Until Cornelius became censor, that is.
After listening to his fellow ex Censors, and getting my OK to support it,
Cornelius denied the request. The Roman was quite upset. So much so that she
threatened to resign from her positions unless the Senate approved her request.
Even if the Senate gave into her blackmail, there was not much we could do.
We couldn't order Cornelius to comply, the best we could do is request which
could be acted on. On the other hand he could ignore us and there would be
nothing to do about it, except lose the Senate's dignatas. Also, Minucius and I
felt if we gave into these demands, it would set a very bad precedent. So we
denied her and Cornelius Sulla issued the first draft of the Gender Edictum.
Now that it was a law that had to be obyed the Roman resigned her positions
as promised and left Nova Roma.
I actually was relived. This Edictum proved we were not a RPG, and should
be enough to secure a grant. Boy, was I wrong.

The Resistance.
Nova Roma, since it was a polytheistic organization, had its share of
interesting members who do not march to the beat of organization. In fact they march
to beat of their own drums.
It was there that the former Roman rallied support. In her these Romans saw
kindred and her message was pretty persuasive. "It's me today. How do you
know it won't be you tomorrow?"
Several members resigned their citizenship in protest, others decided to
found their own organization. Nova Roma was splitting up again. Then the
Tribunate got involved.
The Tribunes, were to protect the Constitution and veto those laws that were
unconstitutional. Was the Gender Edictum unconstitutional? I lobbied the
Tribunes.
If you want to be a Roman here in NR, you must be the gender that you are.
Nowhere in
the constitution does it guarantee that you may register as something you
aren't. If you are female and wish to called by a male name, that is courtesy
you may request of the citizens, but not demand it of the Censors or the Senate.
One Tribune saw it my way and convinced his colleague. The Edict was not
vetoed. Nova Roma was at peace again. Until the period before the Elections,
but that is more history for a later date.
Am I sad we lost so many people over this? Yes and no. Yes, because we lost
some very talented people, no, because they were going to leave anyway. If
not for this reason for another. Once the foot is out the door it takes very
little to have the other to join it. Alas, the idea was good, but the
reasoning flawed, we would never get the Getty grant, in their opinion we were an
online "RPG", no matter what we did, and not a serious study.
I still believe that if you are female you should register as such, and be
addressed as such in the Forum, but we don't need a Gender law for that.
Cornelius Sulla agrees, and we expect to start the process to repeal it next year.

I hope you will see that this whole idea was to gain NR credibility, not to
discriminate against one gender challenged person like so many said it was.
Though it was that person that set the events in motion, there were many other
factors that were involved in the final decision.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus.










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus Serv. Equitio Mercurio Troiano salutem dicit.

Salve, Serv. Equiti.

> The answer is obvious: A temporary injury to pride is NOT equal to

the permanent loss of a Citizen. I say temporary because

> Marinus DID say Flavia Tullia should apologize (and I feel that

Diana should accept the apology, on the grounds that F. Tullia is new,
so long as the apology is sinsere. An offering should also be made to
Venus, who is the One truly offended here).

A technical, but pertinent point: if a piaculum is owed, it is to
Pietas, not to Venus. Flavia Tullia's accusation centered on the
sincerity of D. Moravia's ritual oath to Pietas. However, if Flavia
Tullia is not a practitioner of the Religio Romana, this is unlikely
to be a practical matter in any case.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete gentlemen,

Ah, I see your posts are close so perhaps I can catch you both at
once on this question since I'm having a hard time getting clear
information.

During the 1st to 3rd centuries of the Roman Empire, was Europe,
meaning France, Northern Italy, parts of Germany, Britannia and
though not conquered by Rome, Hibernia still heavily forested? Did
the Romans have technology to level vast amounts of forest or did
that happen in the middle ages? In other words, I am curious that if
I had taken a trip from Rome to Londinium circa 180 AD, would the
great Roman roads have taken me through mostly forest from town to
town like colonial Eastern America from 1650 - 1790 or would there
have been many open farming and agricutural areas as I rode along.


Thanks in advance,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Fabi.

The more I think about the Gender Edictum and its consequences, the
more I am convinced the entire crisis could have been avoided if the
mos maiorum had been more closely followed. Livy (v.31) points out
that since the death of the censor G. Iulius Iullus in 362 a.u.c., it
was ruled under pontifical law that the lustrum of both censores was
profaned if one died or resigned. One L. Cornelius' colleague had
resigned, that pontifical law could have obligated L. Cornelius to
resign and a new censorial election to be held. New censores without
the deep attachment of friendship to the petitioner would likely have
made the request a moot point. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Lanio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Lani.

> During the 1st to 3rd centuries of the Roman Empire, was Europe,
> meaning France, Northern Italy, parts of Germany, Britannia and
> though not conquered by Rome, Hibernia still heavily forested? Did
> the Romans have technology to level vast amounts of forest or did
> that happen in the middle ages? In other words, I am curious that if
> I had taken a trip from Rome to Londinium circa 180 AD, would the
> great Roman roads have taken me through mostly forest from town to
> town like colonial Eastern America from 1650 - 1790 or would there
> have been many open farming and agricutural areas as I rode along.

By 180 CE deforestation around the Mediterranean, including northern
Italia, was already becoming something of a problem (by 400 CE it was
a serious problem) and, to the extent that your journey into Gallia
Lugdunensis and Belgica followed rivers (as many Roman roads did),
some deforestation would have been locally evident. However, the
deforestation of most of northern Gallia, Germania, Britannia, and
Hibernia was a medieval and early modern phenomenon.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve Consul Quintilianus,

> I will if I may, answer these questions shortly.

I look forward to it :-)

> I think that
> opposing forces are a fact of history and I agree
> with Illustri
> Lucius Arminius Faustus that this is part of what is
> driving history
> "forward".

I agree, although there comes a stage in the history
of all things when conflict needs to be put aside, at
least for a while, for the good of the whole.

Incessant and constant conflict can become a drain.
Forward momentum becomes impossible and reasoned
debate is drowned out by a crescendo of argument and
dispute. Nova Roma is not there yet but I fear it is
headed that way.

> Your Pater is a very
> honorable and honest man <snipped>

I think you are referring to the Iunian trait.
Apparently it runs in the family ;-)

> While thinking of it I remember that You soon may be
> "free" from your
> position as a Censorial Scriba. If I am elected
> Censor and if You
> think that You can work with me, I would be honored
> to offer You the
> same position in my Censorial Cohors, sometime in
> January. Please
> think of it!

I thank you for the offer. Hopefully I shall be kept
busy in an elected position but if I am unsuccesful in
my bid then I shall certainly consider it.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

Salve G. Iuli Scaure,

Thank you for your reply!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@w...> wrote:

> G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Lanio Paulino salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Q. Lani.
>
> > During the 1st to 3rd centuries of the Roman Empire, was Europe,
> > meaning France, Northern Italy, parts of Germany, Britannia and
> > though not conquered by Rome, Hibernia still heavily forested?

Did

> > the Romans have technology to level vast amounts of forest or did
> > that happen in the middle ages? In other words, I am curious that

if

> > I had taken a trip from Rome to Londinium circa 180 AD, would the
> > great Roman roads have taken me through mostly forest from town

to

> > town like colonial Eastern America from 1650 - 1790 or would

there

> > have been many open farming and agricutural areas as I rode along.
>
> By 180 CE deforestation around the Mediterranean, including northern
> Italia, was already becoming something of a problem (by 400 CE it

was

> a serious problem) and, to the extent that your journey into Gallia
> Lugdunensis and Belgica followed rivers (as many Roman roads did),
> some deforestation would have been locally evident. However, the
> deforestation of most of northern Gallia, Germania, Britannia, and
> Hibernia was a medieval and early modern phenomenon.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve & Thank You Scaurus

Granted, however as this also involved a person sworn to the service of Venus, and not just the oath itself, shouldn't the Goddess be considered as well - an offering to both then? To rephrase it, if the Oath has been offended against, then does it not also follow that the service (to Venus) rendered under that Oath (to Venus) has also been offended against? Thence, a need for an expiatory offering to both Pietas (for the Oath having been insulted) and to Venus (for the Service rendered under the Oath having been insulted)?
Personally, I would prefer to offer to both at least under the circumstances and probably a third general Offering just in case Anyone else were offended by the deed. As for being of the Religio or not, good manners are that local custom should be respected: It happened here, Religio custom should apply. Although admittedly, good manners have been in short supply lately.

Bene vale
~ Servius


-----Original Message-----
From: g_iulius_scaurus <gfr@...>
Sent: Dec 5, 2003 4:51 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: de delectu consulum

<html><body>


<tt>
G. Iulius Scaurus Serv. Equitio Mercurio Troiano salutem dicit.<BR>
<BR>
Salve, Serv. Equiti.<BR>
<BR>

>   The answer is obvious: A temporary injury to pride is NOT equal to<BR>

the permanent loss of a Citizen.  I say temporary because<BR>

> Marinus DID say Flavia Tullia should apologize (and I feel that<BR>

Diana should accept the apology, on the grounds that F. Tullia is new,<BR>
so long as the apology is sinsere.  An offering should also be made to<BR>
Venus, who is the One truly offended here).<BR>
<BR>
A technical, but pertinent point: if a piaculum is owed, it is to<BR>
Pietas, not to Venus.  Flavia Tullia's accusation centered on the<BR>
sincerity of D. Moravia's ritual oath to Pietas.  However, if Flavia<BR>
Tullia is not a practitioner of the Religio Romana, this is unlikely<BR>
to be a practical matter in any case.<BR>
<BR>
Vale.<BR>
<BR>
G. Iulius Scaurus<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Salve Servius, Justinian et Octavianus,

Well, as of now I don't have any Latin Books and probably won't until
after Christmas. Here is a great site for translating English-Latin or vic versa
Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid. So I would assume we will learn via the
Internet as I see Octavianus is form Australia, Correct me if I am wrong. So I
guess we could make plans have sort of an online meeting. I am usually free when
Im not in school until 4pm when I arrive home. Thanks.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

The illustrious G. Iulius Scaurus makes a great point ( yes with 20/20)

Question for the candidates for Consul and Censor give that

"Livy (v.31) points out that since the death of the censor G. Iulius Iulius in 362 a.u.c., it was ruled under pontifical law that the lustrum of both censors was profaned if one died or resigned. One L. Cornelius' colleague had resigned, that pontifical law could have obligated L. Cornelius to resign and a new censorial election to be held. "

Will you introduce a Lex to codify this practice of the Ancient Romans to bring us closer to the mos maiorum on this point. Why or why not?

In Ancient Rome election to the Quaestorship put you on the backbenches of the Senate.
Do you think we should adopt this practice in Nova Roma? Why or Why not?

Thanks to the candidates in advance



Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: g_iulius_scaurus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:36 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Some Nova Roman History


G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Fabi.

The more I think about the Gender Edictum and its consequences, the
more I am convinced the entire crisis could have been avoided if the
mos maiorum had been more closely followed. Livy (v.31) points out
that since the death of the censor G. Iulius Iullus in 362 a.u.c., it
was ruled under pontifical law that the lustrum of both censores was
profaned if one died or resigned. One L. Cornelius' colleague had
resigned, that pontifical law could have obligated L. Cornelius to
resign and a new censorial election to be held. New censores without
the deep attachment of friendship to the petitioner would likely have
made the request a moot point. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus Serv. Equitio Mercurio Troiano salutem dicit.

Salve, Serv. Equiti.

> Granted, however as this also involved a person sworn to the

service of Venus, and not just the oath itself, shouldn't the Goddess
be considered as well - an offering to both then? To rephrase it, if
the Oath has been offended against, then does it not also follow that
the service (to Venus) rendered under that Oath (to Venus) has also
been offended against? Thence, a need for an expiatory offering to
both Pietas (for the Oath having been insulted) and to Venus (for the
Service rendered under the Oath having been insulted)?

> Personally, I would prefer to offer to both at least under the

circumstances and probably a third general Offering just in case
Anyone else were offended by the deed. As for being of the Religio or
not, good manners are that local custom should be respected: It
happened here, Religio custom should apply. Although admittedly, good
manners have been in short supply lately.

The fundamental problem with the way you are approaching this is that
you are looking at it from the perspective of etiquette rather than
religious law. Expiation (piaculum) is a technical term with a
technical meaning in religious law.

A piaculum is for profanation or vitium of a ritual. Public
accusation of perjury in a ritual oath is such a profanation unless
the accusation has been proven at law. The offended deity is the one
to whom the ritual was offered, in this case Pietas. Piaculum is not
a generic apology to any Gods who might have been peripherally
involved with the human actors in the ritual, but only an expiation to
those Gods who were specifically invoked in the ritual (or to one of
the Gods, if, for example the profanation was a vitium in the formula
addressing one of the Gods invoked in the praefatio to witness a
sacrifice). Your preferences (or mine for that matter) about
apologies are entirely separate from the religious legal principles
which guide the performance of piaculum. This is not something we can
make up as we go, since we have clear guidance from historical Roman
sources on the question.

More important still, the Constitution of Nova Roma states that "[T]he
following rights of the Citizens who have reached the age of 18 shall
be guaranteed... 1. Complete authority over their own personal and
household rites, rituals, and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except
where this Constitution mandates participation in the rites of the
Religio Romana, such as the case of magistrates and Senators;"
(II.B.1). No non-senatorial or magisterial citizen can or should be
compelled to participate in the Religio Romana in any way. If there
were clear evidence, juridically determined, that a non-practitioner
citizen had caused a vitium in a ritual, unless the vitium amounted to
blasphemy under the Blasphemy Decretum or contumelia pietate under the
Lex Salicia Poenalis, no sanction can be imposed against the citizen.
Furthermore no sanction which requires a non-practitioner to offer
piaculum can be constitutionally imposed under either procedure at
law.. In such a case it would be up to the Collegium Pontificum to
determine if piaculum should be offered on behalf of the res publica
by the competent religious authorities of the state since the
non-practitioner citizen cannot be compelled to do so.

I do not understand what you mean by "to Venus (for the
Service rendered under the Oath having been insulted)" since the fact
that the oath-taker was a sacerdos of Venus only increases the infamia
of the accusation because of the offence to the dignitas of that
individual. The oath itself did not involve Venus in any way. Please
go back and look at the text of the oath and you will see this point.

A prudent practitioner might under these circumstances want also to
offer piaculum to Venus for diminishing the dignitas of her sacerdos,
but that is strictly a matter of individual conscience and is not
required by the historical evidence of Roman religious law.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salve

Our situation has caused a need for some ahistoric practices in the
Censors office. In Antiquita Both Censors were elected at the same time
so the lustrum was shared. Our Censors are not elected at the same time
so the lustrum is individual rather than shared.

It would be very hard to make the Censors office Historic unless we made
some major changes in awarding citizenship. Roman Censors were elected
every 5 years not every two years, and the period of lustrum lasted
until they completed their task of holding a Census and awarding state
contracts, typically 18 months. The Albums for the Senate and the
Citizens weren't kept up to date but were updated at the Census.

5 Years is a very long time to do the modern Censor's job. A Shared
Lustrum would mean there would be a period near the start of the term
when neither Censor was experienced. Having the Censors active for only
the first 18 months of a 5 year period would be very undesirable,
someone could wind up waiting 3 years to get their name entered in the
Album.

Election to Office as an automatic entry into the Senate is a Sullan
Reform. Prior to that the Censors normally would elevate a man who was
elected to the Senate, but were under no obligation to do so. Bringing
the Sullan practice into Nova Roma would quickly expand the Senate to an
absurd percentage of the citizens. In Antiquita the Senate was just 300
in a City that had hundreds of thousands of people living in it. The
percentage of citizens in the Senate would wind up being as ahistoric as
the percentage of Patricians in Nova Roma. If we are going to add any
automatic elevations to the Senate a better choice would be the major
Flamines.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Stephen Gallagher wrote:

> Salve Romans
>
> The illustrious G. Iulius Scaurus makes a great point ( yes with 20/20)
>
> Question for the candidates for Consul and Censor give that
>
> "Livy (v.31) points out that since the death of the censor G. Iulius
> Iulius in 362 a.u.c., it was ruled under pontifical law that the
> lustrum of both censors was profaned if one died or resigned. One L.
> Cornelius' colleague had resigned, that pontifical law could have
> obligated L. Cornelius to resign and a new censorial election to be
> held. "
>
> Will you introduce a Lex to codify this practice of the Ancient Romans
> to bring us closer to the mos maiorum on this point. Why or why not?
>
> In Ancient Rome election to the Quaestorship put you on the
> backbenches of the Senate.
> Do you think we should adopt this practice in Nova Roma? Why or Why not?
>
> Thanks to the candidates in advance
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: g_iulius_scaurus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:36 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Some Nova Roman History
>
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Q. Fabi.
>
> The more I think about the Gender Edictum and its consequences, the
> more I am convinced the entire crisis could have been avoided if the
> mos maiorum had been more closely followed. Livy (v.31) points out
> that since the death of the censor G. Iulius Iullus in 362 a.u.c., it
> was ruled under pontifical law that the lustrum of both censores was
> profaned if one died or resigned. One L. Cornelius' colleague had
> resigned, that pontifical law could have obligated L. Cornelius to
> resign and a new censorial election to be held. New censores without
> the deep attachment of friendship to the petitioner would likely have
> made the request a moot point. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Salve L. Sicinius Drusus

Very good points thanks for you thoughtful answers.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Questions for the candidates for Consul and Censor


Salve

Our situation has caused a need for some ahistoric practices in the
Censors office. In Antiquita Both Censors were elected at the same time
so the lustrum was shared. Our Censors are not elected at the same time
so the lustrum is individual rather than shared.

It would be very hard to make the Censors office Historic unless we made
some major changes in awarding citizenship. Roman Censors were elected
every 5 years not every two years, and the period of lustrum lasted
until they completed their task of holding a Census and awarding state
contracts, typically 18 months. The Albums for the Senate and the
Citizens weren't kept up to date but were updated at the Census.

5 Years is a very long time to do the modern Censor's job. A Shared
Lustrum would mean there would be a period near the start of the term
when neither Censor was experienced. Having the Censors active for only
the first 18 months of a 5 year period would be very undesirable,
someone could wind up waiting 3 years to get their name entered in the
Album.

Election to Office as an automatic entry into the Senate is a Sullan
Reform. Prior to that the Censors normally would elevate a man who was
elected to the Senate, but were under no obligation to do so. Bringing
the Sullan practice into Nova Roma would quickly expand the Senate to an
absurd percentage of the citizens. In Antiquita the Senate was just 300
in a City that had hundreds of thousands of people living in it. The
percentage of citizens in the Senate would wind up being as ahistoric as
the percentage of Patricians in Nova Roma. If we are going to add any
automatic elevations to the Senate a better choice would be the major
Flamines.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Stephen Gallagher wrote:

> Salve Romans
>
> The illustrious G. Iulius Scaurus makes a great point ( yes with 20/20)
>
> Question for the candidates for Consul and Censor give that
>
> "Livy (v.31) points out that since the death of the censor G. Iulius
> Iulius in 362 a.u.c., it was ruled under pontifical law that the
> lustrum of both censors was profaned if one died or resigned. One L.
> Cornelius' colleague had resigned, that pontifical law could have
> obligated L. Cornelius to resign and a new censorial election to be
> held. "
>
> Will you introduce a Lex to codify this practice of the Ancient Romans
> to bring us closer to the mos maiorum on this point. Why or why not?
>
> In Ancient Rome election to the Quaestorship put you on the
> backbenches of the Senate.
> Do you think we should adopt this practice in Nova Roma? Why or Why not?
>
> Thanks to the candidates in advance
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: g_iulius_scaurus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:36 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Some Nova Roman History
>
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Q. Fabi.
>
> The more I think about the Gender Edictum and its consequences, the
> more I am convinced the entire crisis could have been avoided if the
> mos maiorum had been more closely followed. Livy (v.31) points out
> that since the death of the censor G. Iulius Iullus in 362 a.u.c., it
> was ruled under pontifical law that the lustrum of both censores was
> profaned if one died or resigned. One L. Cornelius' colleague had
> resigned, that pontifical law could have obligated L. Cornelius to
> resign and a new censorial election to be held. New censores without
> the deep attachment of friendship to the petitioner would likely have
> made the request a moot point. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c706vvc/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1070711761/A=1853619/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116730>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Livia Cornelia,

> I have discovered one bug in the program: it allows you to vote for
> more choices than allowed. I deliberately check all 5 of the mock
> candidates for Praetor, even though it says "(2 Openings)".

I believe this is correct. From the Lex Fabia de Ratione
Comitiorum Centuriatorum:

] In the case of a magisterial election, for each candidate,
] each voter shall have the option to mark the candidate
] 'yes (vti rogas)' or to leave the candidate unmarked; each
] ballot shall carry the following direction: 'you may vote
] for as many candidates as you wish, but you are advised to
] vote only for those candidates you strongly support'.

Seems a bit odd, but I can see why someone might vote for more
than there are positions available -- a voter who has three friends
and two enemies who are running for a 2-seat office might give
his vote to three candidates, causing all of them to be strengthened
relative to the opponents.

Voting for all five, though, wouldn't make sense.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/

Salve Honorable M. Scipio Africanus!

I would be very happy to learn about the develpment of your municipia
or oppidia as the law was proposed by me. Just check the lex on:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-v.html

Please observe:
"II. b. According to their size, there shall be two kinds of local groups:
1. An "oppidum" shall be a local group of at least five members.
2. A "municipium" shall be a local group of at least
thirty-five members."

I think that we may see an oppidium in my homecity soon too. I will
see to it tat our effort in this regard will be reported as soon as
such local group is established.

Let us compare notes and also share experiences with each other, our
friends from Hispania, Urbs Roma and others to be able to deveop the
system and to give each other ideas to use in our common work for the
Res Publica.

Good luck in this important work!

>--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>As you know from our conversations in the Militarium
>> I share your feelings in this Marce. I hope to be
>> able to encourage a significant increase in the
>> number of local get-togethers of Nova Romans next
>year.
>
>
>I have spoken to several within my provincia about
>this very same idea tonight, and with the permission
>of our Honorable Propraetor, and the blessings of the
>Senate, we plan to establish two such municipalities,
>and test out this new format that the Republic has
>ushered into law. We hope to serve as a test model
>for its workability, and over the next year, help to
>fine tune it if it becomes obvious that is needed.
>
>M. Scipio Africanus
>Tribunus Augusticlavii

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness