Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Dec 11-15, 2003

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18119 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Endorsement of Curule Aediles, Praetores et Consules
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18120 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18121 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18122 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18123 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18124 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18125 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18126 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Endorsement for Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18127 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18128 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18129 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18130 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18131 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Voter Codes, Tribes and Centuries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18132 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18133 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18134 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18135 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18136 From: Anne Ferlat Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18137 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Suerte!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18138 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Roman Times
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18139 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18140 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements of M. Octavius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18141 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsement for the office of Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18142 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18143 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Palladius' Endorsement of Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18144 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Ite In Suffragium, Bene Iuvantibus Divis (Voting Begins)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18145 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18146 From: Cesca Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: (Voting Begins)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18147 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: As voting approaches
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18148 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Palladius' Endorsement of Consular Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18149 From: Cesca Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Voting Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18150 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Palladius' Endorsement of Consular Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18151 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18152 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18153 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18154 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: A big thank you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18155 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18156 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18157 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: It's time to vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18158 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18159 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18160 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18161 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18162 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18163 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18164 From: fin372000 Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Counting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18165 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18166 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Thanks to all
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18167 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Good luck in the Plebeian elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18168 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Counting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18169 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18170 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Thanks & Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18171 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Thanks & Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18172 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18173 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Attention Voters, very important information
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18174 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18175 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Ite In Suffragium, Bene Iuvantibus Divis (Voting Begins)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18176 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: attn. factio veneta members.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18177 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: For those who requested the full text of the last Senate Agenda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18178 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18179 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18180 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18181 From: ladykarisse Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18182 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18183 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18184 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18185 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: thanks for the support
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18186 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18187 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Pompeia's Two Denarii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18188 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18189 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18190 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18191 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18192 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18193 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18194 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18195 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Pompeia's Two Denarii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18196 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18197 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18198 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18199 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18200 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Pompeia's Two Denarii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18201 From: Flavia Lucilla Merula Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re Clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18202 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18203 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18204 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Re Clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18205 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18206 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Advice on Voting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18207 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Comitia Centuriata How-To
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18208 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18209 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Endorsements (why I won't make any)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18210 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18211 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18212 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Question for Censor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18213 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18214 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18215 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18216 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18217 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18218 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18219 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: For those who requested the full text of the last Senate Agenda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18220 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18221 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18222 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18223 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18224 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18225 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18226 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18227 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18228 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18229 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Roman clothing for women: attn Julilla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18230 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18231 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Additional Links
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18232 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18233 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18234 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Additional Links
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18235 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Roman clothing for women: attn Julilla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18236 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18237 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: FREEDOM FOR IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18238 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Comitia Centuriata: Phase 2 begins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18239 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18240 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Comitia Centuriata: Phase 2 begins (minor correction)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18241 From: caesarspassion Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: SENATE QUESTION
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18242 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: SENATE QUESTION
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18243 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18244 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: SENATE QUESTION
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18245 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18246 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Question about Lex Labiena de Nominibus Mutandis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18247 From: George Metz Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Ace of Spades Trumped - We Got Him !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18248 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Labiena de Nominibus Mutandis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18249 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Advice on Voting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18250 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Cincinnatus Augur, former Censor, endorses Q.Fabius Maximus for Cen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18251 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18252 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18253 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18254 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18255 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Good luck in the Plebeian elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18256 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18257 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Ace of Spades Trumped - We Got Him !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18258 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18259 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: A response to S. Equitius Mercnurius Troianus from his cousin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18260 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18261 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18262 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XII
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18263 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Re Clarification-To Servius Equitius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18264 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Twelve Tables -- Table II, Law I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18265 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XIII
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18266 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XIV
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18267 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XV
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18268 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18269 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18270 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18271 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18272 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18273 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Thanks to CORDVS ET PIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18274 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18275 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18276 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18277 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18278 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18279 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18280 From: Sp. Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18281 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18282 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18283 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18284 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18285 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18286 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18287 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: The Path to Destruction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18288 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18289 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18290 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18291 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18292 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: The Path to Destruction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18293 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18294 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: The Path to Destruction



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18119 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Endorsement of Curule Aediles, Praetores et Consules
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:

> CONSUL
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> is a man of honor and duty. [...]

Thank you Caeso Fabius, I appreciate your endorsement.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18120 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
It's probably Yahoo's problem. If you are using Yahoo Mail it could be
a problem with their servers. I am using Fastmail.FM, a for fee IMAP/POP
mail service and all my posts show up quickly. Check out Fastmail.FM
and look it over. Here's the URL for it:

http://fastmail.fm/mail/?STKI=16521

I don't work for them I'm just a satisfied user.

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

--
AIM: KSDeist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18121 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna is a fine Matrona and has done a lot of
work behind the scenes this year on the website team. She rescued our
Comitia Plebis Tributa vote a few months ago when she took the
initiative and when into the site to tidy up the cista which has us
all confused as to where the 'yes' buttons could be found. I wrote
two of those laws and I nearly sent my vote in as abstentions
because of the confusion. Julilla takes initiative to do things
without being asked. I think she would also make a fine Tribune. The
only reason that I did not place her in the top 5 is that she has not
taken part in any of the discussions during the pre-contio period. I
would have liked to have seen her reactions to some of the questions
posted here.

Diana, gratias multas for your many kind words. And you are right, I
haven't been able to post much during the last two weeks, mainly
because I've been flattened by the combined cold/'flu bug that's
galloping through the states at breakneck speed. It's been horribly
inconvenient not to have the full use of mind and body, and I
apologise to you and to the voters for having been so far out of it.

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18122 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Salve Cesca Daria

You actually joined up during the Political Season? I'm impressed! I'm new too, but if my first impression had been N.R. politics I would have gone right back to the good Hellenes who pointed me towards Nova Roma and said "You must be kidding! They call themselves Romans but are acting like Barbarians and worse!"
As it was, I lucked out and got here before the messiness, and had made enough good new friends that I've endured the vile bits secure in the knowlege that this too shall pass.
Welcome Cesca! If you've put up with us at our worst, you're going to love it when the Politics are over with!

Bene vale
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Cesca <cesca_nz@...>
Sent: Dec 10, 2003 6:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!

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<tt>
Salve<BR>
I am a very new member (1 month old) but I would be<BR>
VERY interested in joining the Geography Sodalitas. I<BR>
too love maps and  geography. My knowledge of world<BR>
grography and ancient history is quite extensive. <BR>
<BR>
Cesca Daria<BR>
<BR>
--- Scriboni89@... wrote: > Salve Cives,<BR>
> <BR>
>     I was thinking of starting a new sodalitas. The<BR>
> Sodalitas Geographia. It <BR>
> would be for the study of the Geography etc of<BR>
> Ancient Rome and the Ancient <BR>
> World! I have quite an interest in maps and<BR>
> geography. I have studied the <BR>
> provinces of Rome and I think I have quite a good<BR>
> knowledge of not just Roman but <BR>
> European geography. So I would like to find some<BR>
> people who would be interested <BR>
> in this and who would like to help me make this a<BR>
> new Sodalitas. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________ <BR>
Post your free ad now! <a href="http://personals.yahoo.ca">http://personals.yahoo.ca</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18123 From: D Butler Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
Citizens!

Let us elect a steady hand to the Helm of State:

Gnaeus Equitius MARINUS for Consul!

Let us elect a man who upholds the dignity of Rome:

Gnaeus Equitius MARINUS for Consul!

The Legacy of our Heritage calls us to the polls:

Gnaeus Equitius MARINUS for Consul!



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:
>
> > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus for Consul
>
> Thank you Gai Popilli, I appreciate your endorsement.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18124 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Cesca Daria
>
> You actually joined up during the Political Season? I'm
impressed! I'm new too, but if my first impression had been N.R.
politics I would have gone right back to the good Hellenes who pointed
me towards Nova Roma and said "You must be kidding! They call
themselves Romans but are acting like Barbarians and worse!"


Salve,

If anything Nova Romans are a bit more civilized than the Roman
politics of antiquity. Assassination was not uncommon, just ask the
brothers Grachii. The hiring thugs to beat the tar out of an
opponent's supporters was such a time honored tradition that Marius
and Sulla took it one step further and started the tradition of
marching legions into Rome every few years. The list could go on and
on, but I think you get the idea.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18125 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Salvete Scriboni et Cesca

I've always enjoyed the subject when it comes up: The map Links, the questions on forrestation, trade routes, Roman Roads, and all of the other recent Posts that touch on this topic. I'd love to see it all pulled together into one Resource! Count me in!

~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Cesca <cesca_nz@...>
Sent: Dec 10, 2003 6:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!

<html><body>


<tt>
Salve<BR>
I am a very new member (1 month old) but I would be<BR>
VERY interested in joining the Geography Sodalitas. I<BR>
too love maps and  geography. My knowledge of world<BR>
grography and ancient history is quite extensive. <BR>
<BR>
Cesca Daria<BR>
<BR>
--- Scriboni89@... wrote: > Salve Cives,<BR>
> <BR>
>     I was thinking of starting a new sodalitas. The<BR>
> Sodalitas Geographia. It <BR>
> would be for the study of the Geography etc of<BR>
> Ancient Rome and the Ancient <BR>
> World! I have quite an interest in maps and<BR>
> geography. I have studied the <BR>
> provinces of Rome and I think I have quite a good<BR>
> knowledge of not just Roman but <BR>
> European geography. So I would like to find some<BR>
> people who would be interested <BR>
> in this and who would like to help me make this a<BR>
> new Sodalitas. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________ <BR>
Post your free ad now! <a href="http://personals.yahoo.ca">http://personals.yahoo.ca</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18126 From: Shane Evans Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Endorsement for Tribunus Plebis
I would also like to endorse G Modius Athanasius for
Tribunus Plebis. I have been working with him on
several projects at the provincial level, and I feel
he would be a valuable asset to Nova Roma.


M. Scipio Africanus
Tribunus Militum

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18127 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Slave Tribunes,

Well, sir the paenula is a travelers cloak. I think you would want a
lacerna or sagum. I would defiantly recommend La Wrens Nest. They make excellent
quality tunics, cloaks etc. Also Flavia Tullia was the one whom gave me that
information. Also, sir, I have started my part in the project.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18128 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

If I might be excused for pontificating briefly, I'd
say that this shows the dangers of 'negative
campaigning'. When one feels strongly that a candidate
is not the right one for the job, it's tempting to
share that feeling with others; but it's almost
impossible to do so without causing upset or offence,
and there's even a risk of making, or seeming to make,
serious accusations with serious repurcussions. And of
course it may also place the candidates one supports
in a difficult position.

I'm glad to see that the campaigning has been almost
entirely positive so far (and I think it has, though I
know one or two candidates have felt otherwise); and I
hope it will continue that way.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18129 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
Salvete

I've noticed the same thing: Sometimes I make a Post, and I get a Reply before the orginal Post shows up in my Inbox!
Computers are quirky, and seem to operate on a Time Warp of their own.

~ Servius Equitius

-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@...>
Sent: Dec 11, 2003 11:01 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] yahoo or ML?

<html><body>


<tt>
Sometimes when I post, I have a response before I can<BR>
say Caesar.  Sometimes it takes 8-12 hours to get a<BR>
post.  When this happens, I can usually see it and<BR>
responses on the list, but sometimes, the original<BR>
post doesnt even get that far for a long time.<BR>
<BR>
M. Scipio Africanus<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________<BR>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR>
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.<BR>
<a href="http://photos.yahoo.com/">http://photos.yahoo.com/</a><BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18130 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
D Butler wrote:
>
> Citizens!
>
> Let us elect a steady hand to the Helm of State:
>
> Gnaeus Equitius MARINUS for Consul!

Thank you also for your kind endorsement. I very much appreciate
the vote of confidence.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18131 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-11
Subject: Voter Codes, Tribes and Centuries
Tribe and Century allocations were done this past weekend. Most citizens
will find themselves in a different century than before.

ALL VOTER CODES WERE RESET. This is done annually, to minimize the
impact of voter codes that are known to persons other than the legitimate
holders. New voter codes are of the form AAA111 (three letters,
then three digits). You can get your new voter code from your
Album Civium page.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18132 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Salve Cordus my Friend

I really must emend your comment: It has IMPROVED, it is now what it should have been all along, however there was a period of a week or two that went from bad to heinous. The slanders and affronts were such that at the turn of the last century there would have been at least half a dozen duels of honour and a funeral or two for our Priests to deal with. It was inexcusable and vile, and in at least one prolonged case it was calculated and collusive.

Now mind you, the Victorian morals of the turn of the previous century were a big improvement over what it would have been in Ancient Rome: Back then, this sort of behaviour would have resulted in knifings, poisonings, hired assassins and family wide vendettas - the body count would possibly have hit a dozen.

So by all means applaud the current tone of discussion, and hail, remember, and vote for those who NEVER stooped to such low tactics, but don't give me this selective memory routine: Do not forget and do not vote for those who sank into slander, lies, and utter dishonour - we don't want or need such people governing our Republic!

Vale
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Dec 11, 2003 5:33 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] In re Flaviae Tulliae

<html><body>


<tt>
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,<BR>
greetings.<BR>
<BR>
If I might be excused for pontificating briefly, I'd<BR>
say that this shows the dangers of 'negative<BR>
campaigning'. When one feels strongly that a candidate<BR>
is not the right one for the job, it's tempting to<BR>
share that feeling with others; but it's almost<BR>
impossible to do so without causing upset or offence,<BR>
and there's even a risk of making, or seeming to make,<BR>
serious accusations with serious repurcussions. And of<BR>
course it may also place the candidates one supports<BR>
in a difficult position.<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad to see that the campaigning has been almost<BR>
entirely positive so far (and I think it has, though I<BR>
know one or two candidates have felt otherwise); and I<BR>
hope it will continue that way.<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________________<BR>
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. <a href="http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk">http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18133 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: clarification
Flavia Tullia quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Now that I can once again read the texts of the numerous messages on this
board as well as the headers (which were all my e-mail program could
manage of late), it has come to my attention that several citizens, sacerdotal,
magisterial, and other, have interpreted some of my remarks from my earlier
post in a manner which I never intended, and which I sincerely regret.

The most serious of these accusations have to do with the mistaken
impression that I have charged Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia Aventina with
impiety. In truth, the thought never crossed my mind. Diana is a priestess,
and absent some compelling evidence to the contrary, no one should doubt
her devotion to the Religio, or to the deity she serves in particular. Perhaps
my wording was a bit clumsy on this; perhaps my literary style, developed in
academia, is not well suited to this more general audience, but whatever the
case, I am deeply sorry that this impression was conveyed and that this
statement was misconstrued in this fashion, as well as saddened that anyone
was offended thereby.

Please note, too, that I did not criticize spectators at reenactment events for
not wearing costumes, or, for that matter, for wearing costumes from historical
epochs and/or cultures different from those of the culture or chronological
period represented by the reenactors, only that one should observe some
decorum in so doing, and dress modestly. Indeed, those who were present at
this particular reenactment event would likely concur that a yellow fisherman's
slicker with matching pants and boots would have been the most sensible
attire for the deluge which greeted us, for the weather was so dreadful on the
first day that even the most serious reenactors were exempted from wearing
authentic footgear, and the legionaries repaired to the museum building.

Additionally, I did not intend to imply that Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia
Aventina had a low character, only that, in her statement of candidacy, she
adopted the garb of a meretrix, and refused to change this even when the
learned Iulilla Sempronia Magna gently corrected her. Some may find this a
distinction without a difference, but there is in fact a large one. Had she come
virtually attired in tunica and palla, or tunica, stola, and palla, or if she had
changed to these after correction, I would not have mentioned this. The
Romans were a people exceptionally oriented to a visual correlation between
outward appearance and social distinctions, that is, they had an unusually
strong preference for marking social class, gender, and other social
distincions by variations in dress, etc. Those who strive to adopt their ways
should follow their lead, at least in such settings. I was merely trying to help
DMA dress more appropriately, as was Iulilla, and administering some
correction that she chose not to do so, and that too in a flippant manner.

The consulship is a serious matter, and requires a serious temperament.
That does not mean that one cannot laugh, or have a good sense of humor, or
even share a mildly "adult" joke in the proper circumstances. It does mean
that one should take this high office seriously and accept advice where
necessary. It also means (as I noted in the original post, in a section which
seems to have escaped the notice of the commentators thereon), that one
should have a working knowledge of Roman civilization. Diana is a
hardworking, pleasant person devoted to Nova Roma and the Religio, but, in
my humble opinion, she seems to lack the "judicial temperament," if you will,
and possibly other elements, I deem necessary for this office.

Again, I regret any misunderstandings.

In closing, permit me to quote from a source familiar to at least some of you:

Integer vitae scelerisque purus
non eget Mauris iaculis neque arcu
nec venenatis gravida sagittis,
Fusce, pharetra, . . .

Quintus Horatius Flaccus, Carmina i. xxii

"An honorable person free of wrongdoing
doesn't need Moroccan javelins or bow and a
quiver full of poisoned arrows, dear Fuscus. . . "

[granted that there are other, and perhaps better,
ways to translate this.]


Valete,

Flavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18134 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Salve Diana,
thank you veru much for your fine words, good luck for your election

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salvete all,
> After days of thought and soul-searching, I would like to post my
endorsements for Tribunus Plebis.
> I will be honest when I say that I wish that I could endorse all 7
candidates.
>
> G Modius Athanasius:
> As I've mentioned before G Modius is my candidate of choice. Why?
I've been in contact with him on a
> regular basis for the entire year and many any times we have
discussed the position of Tribune in
> detail. I believe that he knows more than any other candidate what
this position entails. This year
> he even stepped out of the endless run-off elections so that a
fifth Tribune could be elected
> easier. This showed me beyond a doubt that this gentleman puts
Nova Roma first instead of his pride
> or the need for a title as a prerequisite for doing work in our
Republic. Since then he has stepped
> in more than once-- without being asked-- to do work for Nova
Roma behind the scenes. His
> humbleness and piussness sets an example for all of us.
>
> Lucius Arminius Faustus:
> I could sing this gentleman's praises all day and night and it
would never be enough. He is gentle,
> pius, brilliant and hard working. During the last month he has
shown how much he cares about NR and
> clearly understands the function of a Tribune. He is quite capable
and more than knowledgeable
> enough to do this job since he has already received a lot of
experience this year as a Plebeian
> magistrate as Plebeian Aedile. He took on the Aedileship this year
and kept things going smoothly
> even though he hit a rather gigantic bump in the road when his
Plebeian Aedile colleague had to
> resign. Even during this crisis, he had me laughing at loud many
times during the Ludi that he
> organized which is much more difficult than it looks. As a
Plebeian Aedile to me the next step up
> the Nova Roma totem-pole is clearly the Tribuneship.
>
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar:
> As with Drusus, I don't always agree with Franciscus but if I am
looking at the best candidates for
> Tribune in an unbiased way (as a Tribune *must* be when in office)
then I know that he will make a
> fine Tribune. He has shown me during this last month that he can
put aside his personal opinion and
> state 'that is not unconstitutional' even if he personally doesn't
agree with what the law states.
> Personalities or who your friends are in Nova Roma cannot be part
of the decision making process
> when a Tribune is called upon by a citizen to veto a new edicta or
leges. This is how a Tribune must
> be and Franciscus has already proven that he is in 'Tribune' mode
and ready to take on this
> important position.
>
> L Sicinius Drusus:
> He doesn't really need an introduction because he is always
present on the Mainlist discussing
> something. Now like me, you may not always agree with him and like
me, you may often cringe at his
> style but that said this gentleman knows the law backwards and
forwards. He would be a real asset to
> the Tribunal. Why?Because there is a rather grey area as to
whether or not the Tribune's can ever
> speak *at all* in the Senate. We all know that now the Tribunes
cannot take part in discussions. But
> what is very vague is when the Tribunes are concerned that
something on the Senate agenda is
> unconstitutional or when the Tribunes need to bring something to
the attention of the Senate. This
> is where Drusus would be extremely valuable. If he is elected as
Tribune he would also still retain
> his Senate seat--the Tribunes would have a direct line to the
Senate. Drusus has already given his
> word that he will always present the concerns of the Tribunes to
the Senate whether he agrees with
> it personally or not. In this I believe him.
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus:
> There are only 3 candidates left and I need to choose one as the
last that I can 'officially
> support.
> The main reason that I am choosing Tiberius is that I can be sure
that he will be very active for
> the
> entire year. As happened in 2755 and in 2756 certain Tribunes
dropped out of the picture when their
> term was only half-way through. Everyone who is on this list for a
day knows the fact that Tiberius
> raised the Eagle from its grave and created a dynamic magazine for
us. He has worked and slaved on a
> daily basis at this task and all for the love of our Republic and
its citizens. More times than I
> can count, he has stated that if NR couldn't afford to print the
Eagle he would pay for it out of
> his own pocket. I don't need to say 'he is a hard worker' because
that is a given. During the past
> month he has showed that he is also studying the laws and is ready
willing and able to take on the
> challenge of being a Tribune.
>
> Ok that was 5 and unfortunately that is all I could pick.
> That said, I won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't mention the
2 other candidates below whom I
> was so thrilled to death to see step forward as candidates.
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna is a fine Matrona and has done a lot of
work behind the scenes this year on
> the website team. She rescued our Comitia Plebis Tributa vote a
few months ago when she took the
> initiative and when into the site to tidy up the cista which has
us all confused as to where the
> 'yes' buttons could be found. I wrote two of those laws and I
nearly sent my vote in as abstentions
> because of the confusion. Julilla takes initiative to do things
without being asked. I think she
> would also make a fine Tribune. The only reason that I did not
place her in the top 5 is that she
> has not taken part in any of the discussions during the pre-contio
period. I would have liked to
> have seen her reactions to some of the questions posted here.
>
> Lucius Quintus Constantius has also shown to be extremely
intelligent and well versed about the law.
> The reason why I haven't put him in the 5 above is because he is
rather new to NR and so I don't
> have many posts of his to give present a more detailed reason of
why he should be Tribune. That
> said, my impression is that he is extremely well versed in the
law. If he wins, I am sure that Nova
> Roma would be better for it!
>
> Valete and the best of luck to all of the candidates for Tribunus
Plebis in the upcoming elections.
> May the Gods smile on you!
> Diana Moravia Aventina
> Tribunus Plebis 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18135 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Salve, god-like Tribuna,

Thanks... I´m flaterred - ;)

Although I am comming on the inverse way of the ´Plebeian via´ Cursus
Honorum, I think I must pull the praetextas of some consuls next
year. (If the tribunes are supposed not to be the pin on the flesh of
the consules, the veto-nightmare on their proposals, what utility do
they have?).

I cannot wait to throw you angry from the curule chair with a veto of
mine next year! Hum?! Gotcha?!


Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!


> Lucius Arminius Faustus:
> I could sing this gentleman's praises all day and night and it
would never be enough. He is gentle,
> pius, brilliant and hard working. During the last month he has
shown how much he cares about NR and
> clearly understands the function of a Tribune. He is quite capable
and more than knowledgeable
> enough to do this job since he has already received a lot of
experience this year as a Plebeian
> magistrate as Plebeian Aedile. He took on the Aedileship this year
and kept things going smoothly
> even though he hit a rather gigantic bump in the road when his
Plebeian Aedile colleague had to
> resign. Even during this crisis, he had me laughing at loud many
times during the Ludi that he
> organized which is much more difficult than it looks. As a Plebeian
Aedile to me the next step up
> the Nova Roma totem-pole is clearly the Tribuneship.
>
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar:
> As with Drusus, I don't always agree with Franciscus but if I am
looking at the best candidates for
> Tribune in an unbiased way (as a Tribune *must* be when in office)
then I know that he will make a
> fine Tribune. He has shown me during this last month that he can
put aside his personal opinion and
> state 'that is not unconstitutional' even if he personally doesn't
agree with what the law states.
> Personalities or who your friends are in Nova Roma cannot be part
of the decision making process
> when a Tribune is called upon by a citizen to veto a new edicta or
leges. This is how a Tribune must
> be and Franciscus has already proven that he is in 'Tribune' mode
and ready to take on this
> important position.
>
> L Sicinius Drusus:
> He doesn't really need an introduction because he is always present
on the Mainlist discussing
> something. Now like me, you may not always agree with him and like
me, you may often cringe at his
> style but that said this gentleman knows the law backwards and
forwards. He would be a real asset to
> the Tribunal. Why?Because there is a rather grey area as to whether
or not the Tribune's can ever
> speak *at all* in the Senate. We all know that now the Tribunes
cannot take part in discussions. But
> what is very vague is when the Tribunes are concerned that
something on the Senate agenda is
> unconstitutional or when the Tribunes need to bring something to
the attention of the Senate. This
> is where Drusus would be extremely valuable. If he is elected as
Tribune he would also still retain
> his Senate seat--the Tribunes would have a direct line to the
Senate. Drusus has already given his
> word that he will always present the concerns of the Tribunes to
the Senate whether he agrees with
> it personally or not. In this I believe him.
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus:
> There are only 3 candidates left and I need to choose one as the
last that I can 'officially
> support.
> The main reason that I am choosing Tiberius is that I can be sure
that he will be very active for
> the
> entire year. As happened in 2755 and in 2756 certain Tribunes
dropped out of the picture when their
> term was only half-way through. Everyone who is on this list for a
day knows the fact that Tiberius
> raised the Eagle from its grave and created a dynamic magazine for
us. He has worked and slaved on a
> daily basis at this task and all for the love of our Republic and
its citizens. More times than I
> can count, he has stated that if NR couldn't afford to print the
Eagle he would pay for it out of
> his own pocket. I don't need to say 'he is a hard worker' because
that is a given. During the past
> month he has showed that he is also studying the laws and is ready
willing and able to take on the
> challenge of being a Tribune.
>
> Ok that was 5 and unfortunately that is all I could pick.
> That said, I won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't mention the
2 other candidates below whom I
> was so thrilled to death to see step forward as candidates.
>
> Julilla Sempronia Magna is a fine Matrona and has done a lot of
work behind the scenes this year on
> the website team. She rescued our Comitia Plebis Tributa vote a few
months ago when she took the
> initiative and when into the site to tidy up the cista which has us
all confused as to where the
> 'yes' buttons could be found. I wrote two of those laws and I
nearly sent my vote in as abstentions
> because of the confusion. Julilla takes initiative to do things
without being asked. I think she
> would also make a fine Tribune. The only reason that I did not
place her in the top 5 is that she
> has not taken part in any of the discussions during the pre-contio
period. I would have liked to
> have seen her reactions to some of the questions posted here.
>
> Lucius Quintus Constantius has also shown to be extremely
intelligent and well versed about the law.
> The reason why I haven't put him in the 5 above is because he is
rather new to NR and so I don't
> have many posts of his to give present a more detailed reason of
why he should be Tribune. That
> said, my impression is that he is extremely well versed in the law.
If he wins, I am sure that Nova
> Roma would be better for it!
>
> Valete and the best of luck to all of the candidates for Tribunus
Plebis in the upcoming elections.
> May the Gods smile on you!
> Diana Moravia Aventina
> Tribunus Plebis 2756
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18136 From: Anne Ferlat Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: clarification
Dear all,
I would like to precise things on Diana. First, let me introduce myself : I
am married, have four children myself
and raise my husband's two sons. I am also doing a PhD on paganism.
I have known Diana Moravia Aventina for now six years.
She is a generous person full of life. As NC of Pagan Federation for France,
I could appreciate her dedication to her work and her seriousness and
straight faith. She took time to help me to correct some texts in English
when I had to present a paper for a conference. She supported me when I had
difficulties. We don't meet each other very often but I know something : I
can rely on her.


Anne

-----Message d'origine-----
De : flaviascholastica [mailto:flavia@...]
Envoyé : vendredi 12 décembre 2003 07:38
À : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Objet : [Nova-Roma] clarification


Flavia Tullia quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit.

Now that I can once again read the texts of the numerous messages on
this
board as well as the headers (which were all my e-mail program could
manage of late), it has come to my attention that several citizens,
sacerdotal,
magisterial, and other, have interpreted some of my remarks from my earlier
post in a manner which I never intended, and which I sincerely regret.

The most serious of these accusations have to do with the mistaken
impression that I have charged Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia Aventina with
impiety. In truth, the thought never crossed my mind. Diana is a
priestess,
and absent some compelling evidence to the contrary, no one should doubt
her devotion to the Religio, or to the deity she serves in particular.
Perhaps
my wording was a bit clumsy on this; perhaps my literary style, developed in
academia, is not well suited to this more general audience, but whatever the
case, I am deeply sorry that this impression was conveyed and that this
statement was misconstrued in this fashion, as well as saddened that anyone
was offended thereby.

Please note, too, that I did not criticize spectators at reenactment
events for
not wearing costumes, or, for that matter, for wearing costumes from
historical
epochs and/or cultures different from those of the culture or chronological
period represented by the reenactors, only that one should observe some
decorum in so doing, and dress modestly. Indeed, those who were present at
this particular reenactment event would likely concur that a yellow
fisherman's
slicker with matching pants and boots would have been the most sensible
attire for the deluge which greeted us, for the weather was so dreadful on
the
first day that even the most serious reenactors were exempted from wearing
authentic footgear, and the legionaries repaired to the museum building.

Additionally, I did not intend to imply that Tribunus Plebis Diana
Moravia
Aventina had a low character, only that, in her statement of candidacy, she
adopted the garb of a meretrix, and refused to change this even when the
learned Iulilla Sempronia Magna gently corrected her. Some may find this a
distinction without a difference, but there is in fact a large one. Had she
come
virtually attired in tunica and palla, or tunica, stola, and palla, or if
she had
changed to these after correction, I would not have mentioned this. The
Romans were a people exceptionally oriented to a visual correlation between
outward appearance and social distinctions, that is, they had an unusually
strong preference for marking social class, gender, and other social
distincions by variations in dress, etc. Those who strive to adopt their
ways
should follow their lead, at least in such settings. I was merely trying to
help
DMA dress more appropriately, as was Iulilla, and administering some
correction that she chose not to do so, and that too in a flippant manner.

The consulship is a serious matter, and requires a serious temperament.
That does not mean that one cannot laugh, or have a good sense of humor, or
even share a mildly "adult" joke in the proper circumstances. It does mean
that one should take this high office seriously and accept advice where
necessary. It also means (as I noted in the original post, in a section
which
seems to have escaped the notice of the commentators thereon), that one
should have a working knowledge of Roman civilization. Diana is a
hardworking, pleasant person devoted to Nova Roma and the Religio, but, in
my humble opinion, she seems to lack the "judicial temperament," if you
will,
and possibly other elements, I deem necessary for this office.

Again, I regret any misunderstandings.

In closing, permit me to quote from a source familiar to at least some
of you:

Integer vitae scelerisque purus
non eget Mauris iaculis neque arcu
nec venenatis gravida sagittis,
Fusce, pharetra, . . .

Quintus
Horatius Flaccus, Carmina i. xxii

"An honorable person free of wrongdoing
doesn't need Moroccan javelins or bow and a
quiver full of poisoned arrows, dear Fuscus. .
. "

[granted that there are other, and perhaps better,
ways to translate this.]


Valete,

Flavia








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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18137 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Suerte!
Salvete Omnes,
they're 7 hours before the beginning of the elections and the
personal endorsements "conquer" our mail browsers... ;-)
They are very good for the candidates but I think not useful for the
voters. However it's very funny to read them ... :-)
I can't avoid to do it too... ;-)
This year we'll can vote for two candidates but I would like to
suggest you all only the first name. I think all the candidates are
excellent citizens and Magistrates and I could spend a long list of
words for each of them. Please don't feel hurted for my first
choices, I hope you know what I think of you all and evrybody must
to choose two candidates...

I wish good luch to all the candidates!

My first vote will go to:

- GNAEUS SALIX ASTUR FOR CONSUL
I think Astur is ont of the best nova roman. He helped us in the
recostruction of Provincia Italia and his leges are wonderful. Never
I have seen a so aimed citizen.

- CAESO FABIUS QUINTILIANUS FOR CENSOR
Quintilianus is my nova roman Mecenate, he learned me the majority
of my knowledge and I give him my thankfull. I can't forget the help
in Provincia Italia, in my Cohors Aedilis and with the Magna MAter
Project.

- MARCUS ARMINIUS MAIOR AND OCTAVIUS NORICUS PRAETOR
I can't suggest you only a name because I think both the canidates
are wonderful. Everybody know the well job of Maior and I know what
good citizen is Noricus

- MARCUS IULIUS PERUSIANUS FOR AEDILE CURULE
Perusianus is one of my best friends. I can give you hundreds of
reasons to vote him. He is a column of the Provincia Italia and his
job about the Magna Mater Project give new goals to Nova Roma.

- JULILLA SEMPRONIA MAGNA FOR TRIBUNUS PLEBIS
I'm running for teh same Office too but if you don't want to vote
for me, I invite you to elect Sempronia Magna. I worked with her in
several fields, from ludi to the web and to the communication and I
can say that she's a wonderful and very skilled colleague.

- EMILIA CURIA FINNICA FOR AEDILE PLEBIS
I met Finnica in Bologna and I'm happy to know her. I was even very
impressed by her skills when she worked with me.

- CAIUS CURIUS SATURNINUS FOR QUAESTOR
I was very surprises to see Saturninus running as Quaestor, I think
he could start from an highest Office. During the last two years he
showed us his skills. I think he is one of the man of the future of
Nova Roma.

- MARCUS MINUCIUS AUDENS FOR CURATOR DIFFERUM
When I knew Audens for the first time, we had several problems of
communication. A young and unpolite magistrate discussing with an
experienced high Magistrate. However during the last 3 years I
appreciated the efforts of Audens to find common points and now I
can say that he's at the first places in my personal charts of
Magistrates ;-) I suggest you to vote him because I think he could
give to The Eagle more interesting and cultural versions.

Valete and good luck

Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18138 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Roman Times
Greetings Citizens!

It is my pleasure to announce that the next issue of the Roman Times
will soon be published, and that we are working on bringing you many
more!

I am currently accepting submissions for the Roman Times, and I want
to hear from you. Please contact me with your article or story ideas
as soon as possible!

Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
arnamentia_aurelia@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18139 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!
Ave Gnei Scriboni,

it's a great idea and I will join the ml when you create it! :-) I'm
very interested in the ancient geography.
If you want to take a look at Signa Romanorum
(http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum): it's basically about
monuments but I'm trying to add also ancient geographical information
(as the Latin names of places where the monuments stand).

vale

Marcus Iulius Perusianus ****for Aedile Curule**** on
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM




Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
11/12/03 14.38
Per favore, rispondere a Nova-Roma

Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 996

______________________________________________________________________
_

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:04:24 EST
From: Scriboni89@...
Subject: Salve.........Help to form a new Sodalitas!!!!

Salve Cives,

I was thinking of starting a new sodalitas. The Sodalitas Geographia.
It
would be for the study of the Geography etc of Ancient Rome and the
Ancient
World! I have quite an interest in maps and geography. I have studied
the
provinces of Rome and I think I have quite a good knowledge of not
just Roman but
European geography. So I would like to find some people who would be
interested
in this and who would like to help me make this a new Sodalitas.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.

P.S. Ave Servius et Iustinian!
I tired to send this to Octavianus aswell only it returned to me and
stated
that some sort of error accured. Something with him not having Yahoo.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18140 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements of M. Octavius
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

For your consideration, I would like to present the following
recommendations:

For CENSOR - CAESO FABIUS Quintilianus. I have corresponded with Caeso
this past year and believe that our administrative styles will mesh very
well when we share the Censors' office. As someone who is very
approachable and communicative, he will be the ideal "front end" for this
office, while I will continue to constitute the "back end" -- CAESO would
handle citizen contacts while I refine the tools and the automated processes.

For CONSUL - All candidates. This may surprise some, but I really don't
have a strong preference - they're all worthy to hold this office.

For PRAETOR - Once again we have three fine candidates, but I will make
recommendations in this case. Marcus ARMINIUS Maior has served as my
scriba this past year and performed extremely well in that task, doing
large-scale analyses of the data and reminding me of details I had
overlooked. Additionally, ARMINIUS has the most experience of any
candidate, having served as Propraetor, Tribune and Senator.

Gnaeus OCTAVIUS Noricus is one of this year's Consular Quaestores, and
comes very highly recommended by his Consul, T. Labienus. He handled
half of the registration of citizens as Assidui, and did this job quickly
and accurately. He is ready to advance to the next position in the
Cursus Honorum.

For TRIBUNE - though I am not allowed to vote in this election, I have
met or worked with several of the candidates and have some idea of their
suitability for this important office.

Julilla SEMPRONIA Magna is an outstanding candidate. She performed a
much-needed reorganization of the Tabularium while serving as Curator's
scriba; the following year she became Propraetor of her province.
Julilla SEMPRONIA maintains a high visibility on the main list, a
quality needed in a Tribune. She will do well as an advocate for any
citizen.

Franciscus APULUS Caesar has been one of our most active Propraetores.
He is very visible in his home province of Italia, and is involved in
several projects that may bring us much recognition - among these, the
Temple of Magna Mater. Additionally, as Curule Aedile he has brought
entertainment to us, providing a welcome break from the politics that
usually fill this list.

Gaius MODIUS Athanasius is worthy of your vote. I had the pleasure of
meeting and speaking with him at some length last year in Ohio, where
he performed the invocation to Minerva that began our provincial
gathering. He is active in his local pagan community and will serve
to increase our visibility there. I also believe him to be a man of
conscience and integrity, qualities which a Tribune must exemplify.

For QUAESTOR - Marcus BIANCHIUS Antonius is an outstanding candidate. As
Propraetor, he organized several successful gatherings for which citizens
came from as far away as Illinois. I am pleased to see him ready to
assume a role in our central administration.

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18141 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsement for the office of Censor
Gaius Modius Athanasius Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete:

There are two candidates for the esteemed office of Censor. Both candidates are men of integrity, of high ethical character, and examples of what it means to truly be a “new” Roman. I have had the pleasure of corresponding with both men, and feel that if tasked with the responsibility of Censor, either candidate would fulfill the task with honor.

With two extremely qualified candidates, a difficult choice must be made, as only one of these fine gentleman can be elected. Everyone has a reason for voting for the candidate they choose. Some will choose because of friendship, others because of nationality, or belief. I value dedicated service, and it is with this burden of choice, that I offer my support to a man that has worked his way up the cursus honorum.

I support Quintus Fabius Maximus.

Why do I support this man? Let me list the reasons.

He has been a member of our Republic since August 1st, 1998, and a Pater Familias of one of the founding Patrician Gens. With all of the conflict that has afflicted our Republic in the past it is a testimony to his spirit of commitment that he has maintained such a formidable presence when other leaders have abandoned our ways for easier pursuits.

He has served our Republic as Curule Aedile in 1999.
He has served our Republic as Consul in 2000.
He has served our Republic as Praetor in 2001.
He has served our Republic as Quaestor in 2002.
He was a Legate in California Province from 1999 – 2001.

He currently serves as Proconsul of California Province, and he has been a senator since January 2000. Additionally, he is scriba praetoris assisting Praetor Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.

Within the Religio Romana of Nova Roma he is a Pontifex and as such a member of the Collegium Pontificum, the highest decision making body within the Religio of Nova Roma.

I believe him to be the best qualified for the responsibility of Censor not because of his computers, his language skills, or his accomplishments outside of our Republic. I believe him to be the best man for the duty of Censor because of his commitment to our Republic, his dedication in times of frustration and turmoil, and his willingness to be an example of steadfast statesmanship when fortitude is necessary.

I would like everyone to understand that my endorsement of Quintus Fabius is in no way alluding that the other candidate, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus is not qualified for the office of Censor. Caeso Fabius is an excellent candidate, and will do a fine job of administering the duties of Censor if invested with this responsibility. However, I feel that between these two fine candidates the one that stands out is Quintus Fabuis Maxiumus. Why? Because of his prolonged dedication to our Republic over the past five years.

Valete:

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18142 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: clarification
Salvete quirites, et salve Flavia Tullia,

flaviascholastica wrote:
[a lot, answering collectively the many replies to her
earlier post to which many had objected]

Thank you Flavia, for making the effort to come back and
answer those who had questioned your earlier post. I know
it was not your first instinct to do so, and I respect the
fortitude you've demonstrated by doing this.

I expect that the matter is not closed, and that some
people will still have things to say to you. I hope
that those exchanges will be at least civil, if not
necessarily cordial.

Thank you also for clarifying your position with respect
to Diana Moravia, and stating your regret that any might
have interpreted your words to be the slur some thought
you'd intended. It is a relief to know it was not such.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18143 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Palladius' Endorsement of Praetor Candidates
Salvete Cives,


While there are many good candidates in all offices, some stand out
well above the others and I believe are worthy of an endorsement. In
the Praetorian race, we are blessed with an obvious first choice and
an excellent second choice. I will only recommend two candidates for
the two open offices.

The obvious first choice for Praetor is Decimus Iunius Silanus. I say
this not because he is in my gens, no matter his gens I would
recommend him. I say this because Silanus, far more than any other
candidate, is ready to be praetor. He has served as praetorian
quaestor and praetorian scribe this year and is intimately familiar
with all that the job entails. He worked closely with my colleague
and I throughout the year on all issues that pertained to the
Praetors, among them daily list moderation, possible suits and
creation of the list guidelines. He posts to this list often, so
people know as I do that he is fair-minded, intelligent and
unfailingly polite. Even though he is not a practitioner of the
Religio Romana he respects it and its position as the state religion
of Nova Roma.

Silanus' record of service extends back almost to when he joined Nova
Roma. He has served as Censorial Scribe to Censor Caius Flavius
Diocletianus for two years and has excelled in that position. Almost
two years ago he was appointed Propraetor of Britannia. At the time
he assumed that office Britannia was a province in decline. Britannia
had once been a thriving province but the year before Silanus became
governor, most of the province's citizens had seceded from Nova
Roma. Silanus took over this dispirited province, with only a
handful of remaining citizens and turned it around so that once again
it is thriving, and contributing to the Republic (including
contributing taxes).

Silanus displays the dedication we need in a praetor and you will be
doing the Republic a great service by voting for him.

The other candidate I am endorsing is Marcus Arminius Maior. He is a
devout practitioner of the Religio Romana who has served well as
senator, Tribune and propraetor. While he does not post often, when
he does what he says is worth hearing, even if I don't always agree
with him. He was a candidate last year for praetor as was I. His
presentation of his candidacy again this year shows determination.
This fair-minded man would make an excellent praetor.

I am pleased to recommend Decimus Iunius Silanus and Marcus Arminius
Maior for the office of Praetor.


Vote Silanus and Arminius for Praetor!

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,

Praetor, Senator, etc.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18144 From: labienus@novaroma.org Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Ite In Suffragium, Bene Iuvantibus Divis (Voting Begins)
T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Quiritibus SPD

Voting starts at 18:01 Rome time today (12 December). That is roughly half an
hour away as I send this announcement, though be aware that Yahoo and
other 'Net conditions may have interfered with its timely delivery. To check
the current time in Rome, you can use
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=215 (18:01 is 6:01 PM).

Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum, which was enacted in October of
this year, attempts to follow, as much as possible given our online nature, the
ancient practice of voting one centuria at a time. This results in a
relatively complex voting procedure. As this is the first real vote under
these new procedures, this is likely to result in some confusion. Therefore,
please take note of the following schedule.

12 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
Only Quirites of Centuria IV may vote

13 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
Only Quirites of Centuria IV may vote
The rogatores shall begin counting the results so far, and have 24 hours
in which to announce the results

14 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
Only Quirites of Class I may vote

16 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
Only Quirites of Class I may vote
The rogatores shall begin counting the results so far, and have 24 hours
in which to announce the results

17 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
All Quirites may vote

22 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
Voting ends
The rogatores have 48 hours in which to tally the results and report
them to me. Once they have done so, I have 24 hours in which to publicly
announce the results.

Additionally, you will notice that Caius Minius Messala Bellator does not
appear on the ballot. He is a member of the capite censi, and therefore not
eligible to stand for election. His inclusion in the announcement which
convened the comitia was an error, for which I apologize.

Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18145 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
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Salvete, Quirites.

Here comes my endorsements, for what they're worth. It's also a fairly
detailed list of how I intend to vote, personally, I guess...so take it
as nothing but a set of preferences and motivations for them, which may
or may not help you in your upcoming decisions. Remember, listen to
others and their opinions, but use your own judgement in making the
final decision. That's the basis of democracy, after all.

Censor: We have two candidates, both Fabii, one of which is the current
Senior Consul and former Aedile, active since joining Nova Roma in
shaping her future. He, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, started the Academia
Thules, which is currently in the process of gaining macronational
recognition, and is one of the instigators of the Magna Mater project. I
urge you to support him, as I will myself. He is an extremely
hard-working, sometimes too hard, and honest man, has proven himself
very competent as Propraetor, Aedile and Consul, and is now willing to
spend another year in service to the republic. I see no reason not to
support him.

Consul: Three candidates, one current Praetor, one current Aedile and
one current Tribune. I know all three of them, and have worked alongside
them in various staffs. However, I will only recommend two of them.
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus is a hard-working and dedicated man whom I have
the privilege to call my friend. What he lacks in terms of the cursus
honorum he makes up for by his time in the staffs of senior magistrates.
Gnaeus Salix Astur is one of my closer friends in Nova Roma, even though
our workloads have kept us from conversing that much lately. He gained
great renown as first Tribune and currently as Praetor, which also means
he's travelling up the traditional cursus honorum of plebeians. Very
knowledgeable and competent, and with the experience the romans wanted
in their magistrates.

Praetor: There's three candidates here as well, all of which have
performed most of the necessary steps on the cursus honorum. However,
two candidates in particular tickles my fancy.
Marcus Arminius Maior is already a senator, from past accomplishments
recognised by the Censors. This facts speaks for itself, but I will
nevertheless mention that as a former Tribune and Plebeian Aedile, he
has fulfilled both steps on the plebeian cursus honorum below the office
of Praetor. Now is his time, and I believe he will shine.
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus. 'nuff said, really. But I will say more.
Hard-working, intelligent and highly motivated, he comes with the best
possible resumé. This year, Gnaeus Noricus worked as Quaestor for one
Consul and accensus for the other. Others have recognised his skills,
and I urge you to do the same.

Aedilis Curulis: Two candidates for two positions. I can really
recommend both of them, but I will above all mention Marcus Iulius
Perusianus, a friend of mine who has worked hard on the Magna Mater
project, on which he intends to work even harder in the coming year.
Supporting him is, more or less, supporting Nova Romas credibility in
the academic community.
However, Gaius Iulius Scaurus is also worthy of your votes. I was
looking forward to working as his colleague, when I entered the running
myself, but now I will have to observe him from "the outside" instead.
Nevertheless, it will certainly prove interesting.
In short, vote for them both. :)

Aedilis Plebis: Three fine candidates. A pity us patricians can't vote
in their assemblies, so I will only mention Emilia Curia Finnica, with
whom I've worked almost since I first joined Nova Roma. This is her
first attempt at an actual magistracy, as she's only served under
various magistrates before, and I have the highest faith in her
abilities. She, along with her fiance Caius Curius Saturninus, are more
or less "parents" of the Academia Thules.

Tribunus Plebis: Seven candidates for five positions. Again, I'm a
patrician and can't vote. But some...alright, a lot of them...are
people I could recommend more highly than others.
Gaius Modius Athanasius, a Flamen (priest) and current procurator of
Lacus Magni has been active on the mainlist since he first joined,
without fear or hesitation expressing his opinions, no matter who he
opposed. These traits I recognise as trademarks of a good Tribune, an
Julilla Sempronia Magna has worked as part of my staff this year, and
before that we worked side by side in Marcus Germanicus' staff. She is
hard-working and very competent, and has my support.
Franciscus Apulus Caesar is one of our italian citizens, formerly
Quaestor and Curule Aedile. By the look of things, he's planning on
doing both plebeian and patrician cursus honorum. During his sejour as
Curule Aedile, he worked intimately with Marcus Iulius Perusianus on the
Magna Mater project, and is one of the citizens who will make us
internationally well-known.
Lucius Arminius Faustus has, as Franciscus, been both a Quaestor and a
Curule Aedile. Unlike Franciscus, though, he has held both positions at
once. Sharp, hungry and someone to look out for in the future. He shows
great promise.
Lucius Quintius Constantinus is a newcomer who here attempts his first
step on the plebeian cursus honorum. He seems a worthy person for the
position, and would have my vote if only I had one.

Quaestor: Eight candidates for eight positions. They all have my
support, but my recommendations are primarily for:
Caius Curius Saturninus, legate of regio Finnica (Finland), procurator
of the Academia Thules and accensus of the senior consul. My only
question is why he waited this long to start his cursus honorum.
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia has served as accensus to the Senior Consul
during the last year, as well as under Praetor Gnaeus Salix Astur. I
believe she will do quite well as a magistrate, as her former
"employers" speak highly of her.
Gaia Fabia Livia has been involved in sodalitates and her own provincia,
apart from serving in the staff of the Senior Consul. She has proven an
assett to the republic, and I have no doubt in her abilities.
Marcus Bianchius Antonius I don't know personally, but he is trusted
enough by our paterfamilias to be put in charge of his home provincia.
Therefore, he gets a vote for me.
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is new, but he shows promise. I would like to
see a bit more from him before I say anything about his abilities for
further magistracies, but I'm sure he'll do well as Quaestor.

Curator Araneum: "When there's only one candidate, there's only one
choice." Vote for Marcus Octavius Germanicus, paterfamilias of gens
Octavia, who returns to the office that was created for him, and has
always been occupied by one of us Octavii! *coughs* Too much?

Curator Differium: Marcus Minucius Audens needs no introduction from me.
One of the brightest lights of our republic, three-times Quaestor,
former Praetor, former Consul, former Proconsul of Nova Britannia. Has
served as Accensus for no less than three consuls, and is head of two of
our sodalitates. Spokesman for the senate. I need not have faith in him,
faith is reserved for things one does not know for sure. I *KNOW* he
will do very well, and am quite pleased to see him willing to work with
the Eagle.

Rogator: Three candidates for four positions, in this politically
neutral but oh-so-vital office. I suggest you vote for them all, I will.
We need rogators, and I have no reason to believe that any of the three
will perform less than adequate. I will mention Aulus Apollonius Cordus
in particular, as I've seen him at work this last year and been highly
impressed. He's knowledgeable, meticulous and a hard worker, which will
make him an excellent Rogator, and most anything else he'd care to be.

*takes a minute to breathe deeply*

There, those are my endorsements this year. Feel spammed. :)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18146 From: Cesca Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: (Voting Begins)
Ok Please ignore the last email I just sent. I seem to
be misreading the time. Sorry.

Cesca Daria


--- labienus@... wrote: > T Labienus
Fortunatus Consul Quiritibus SPD
>
> Voting starts at 18:01 Rome time today (12
> December). That is roughly half an
> hour away as I send this announcement, though be
> aware that Yahoo and
> other 'Net conditions may have interfered with its
> timely delivery. To check
> the current time in Rome, you can use
>
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=215
> (18:01 is 6:01 PM).
>


______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18147 From: Livia Cornelia Hibernia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: As voting approaches
Livia Cornelia Hibernia Quiritibus S.P.D.

As the time for voting approaches I wish to thank all of those
Citizens who publicly and privately have supported my candidacy for
Quaestor. I am very thankful and humbled that so many illustrious
Citizens have given me their support.

I also wish to thank in advance all of those Citizens who will
fullfill their civic duty and cast thier votes in this election and
ask that you remember me when doing so.

Bene Vale,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
Candidate for Quaestor for MMDCCLVII A.V.C.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18148 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Palladius' Endorsement of Consular Candidates
Salvete Cives,

I come before you to let those of you who may be interested know who
I believe are the best candidates for this year's races. Almost all
offices have more candidates than open positions, which is a good
sign of the health of our republic. This has not always been the
case.

While there are many good candidates, some stand out well above the
others and I believe are worthy of an endorsement. This year I am
fortunate to have met two of the three consular candidates at Roman
Days and worked with all three to a greater or lesser extent. Since
there are two open positions and three candidates, I will only
recommend two.

For consul, two candidates stand out above the rest and I give them
my wholehearted endorsement: Diana Moravia Aventina and Gnaeus Salix
Astur.

This year as tribune, Diana Moravia has shown she has boundless
reserves of energy, ability and intelligence. Despite personal
setbacks and family tragedy, she led the tribunes as a team to
protect the constitution, write laws, consider various vetoes,
including issuing a veto of the curule aediles' attempted creation of
a "secret police" to supervise the marketplace. She also maintained a
clear line of communication between the Senate and the People as part
of her duties. She is always available and ready to help a citizen.
If she does not know the answer to a question, she seeks out someone
who does know. Her experience as tribune has prepared her well for
consul, she has responded to citizen complaints, written laws, called
comitia to order, observed the workings of the senate and
familiarized herself with our laws. In fact, as consul, she will do
many of the same things that did as Tribune.

Diana Moravia is also a devoted practitioner of the Religio Romana
and a priestess of Venus and has created a website devoted to Her in
addition to her daily devotions. Moravia's dedication to the Gods of
Nova Roma and the Religio Romana mark her as extremely dedicated to
Nova Roma and our main mission, which is reviving the Pax Deorum and
the Religio Romana. This dedication in all facets of her life helps
to mark her as an outstanding candidate for consul.

It will surprise some people that I am endorsing another candidate,
my colleague Gnaeus Salix Astur. I know some of you were expecting
and even hoping for another Palladius vs. Salix campaign, like our
praetorian campaign last year. While I would enjoy running against
him or serving with him again, I cannot this coming year. But we are
young, the chance may come again. ;-) Feeling left out, we have
already promised to indulge at a future date in an entertaining
insult fest so common here of late. :-)

Seriously though, I have been impressed with Gnaeus Salix this past
year. He has worked his way up the cursus honorum and excelled in
each position he has held, especially as praetor. He is willing to
listen to all points of view and is intelligent, quick and helpful.
He is knowledgeable about our laws, having written several, and knows
quite a bit of ancient Roman law as well. He honestly is interested
in emulating the mos maiorum and our ancient forbearers as much as
possible in all things. Also, he is a devoted practitioner of the
Religio Romana, dedicated to the Pax Deorum and the Religio Romana.

I am proud to call both of these highly qualified candidates my
friends and my colleagues and recommend you vote for them.

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetor, Senator, etc.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18149 From: Cesca Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Voting Question
When do we cast our votes? I thought that voting
opened at 1800 Roman time (GMT Plus 2 hours) on
December 12. Thats now passed. Or have I misread
something?

I tried inputting my voter code, but all I get is a
page that says the following.

There are three Comitia. Each Comitia elects a
different set of magistrates. Patricians may vote in
two of the three Comitia; Plebeians may vote in all
three.
The following Comitia are now open for voting:
After that there is nothing.

Thanks

Cesca Daria


______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18150 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Palladius' Endorsement of Consular Candidates
Salvete Quirites; et salve, D. Iuni.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> It will surprise some people that I am endorsing another candidate,
> my colleague Gnaeus Salix Astur. I know some of you were expecting
> and even hoping for another Palladius vs. Salix campaign, like our
> praetorian campaign last year. While I would enjoy running against
> him or serving with him again, I cannot this coming year. But we
> are young, the chance may come again. ;-) Feeling left out, we
> have already promised to indulge at a future date in an
> entertaining insult fest so common here of late. :-)

It has been very disappointing for me to see that D. Iunius finally
could not run for the consulship. I had spent several weeks thinking
about all those really nasty insults. They were so nasty that I was
ready to put myself on moderation for them :-). Alas, they will have
to wait for a time in which we are less busy ;-).

> Seriously though, I have been impressed with Gnaeus Salix this past
> year. He has worked his way up the cursus honorum and excelled in
> each position he has held, especially as praetor. He is willing to
> listen to all points of view and is intelligent, quick and helpful.
> He is knowledgeable about our laws, having written several, and
> knows quite a bit of ancient Roman law as well. He honestly is
> interested in emulating the mos maiorum and our ancient forbearers
> as much as possible in all things. Also, he is a devoted
> practitioner of the Religio Romana, dedicated to the Pax Deorum and
> the Religio Romana.

Thank you very much for your kind words, collega. I wish you good
luck with your new projects for the next year. May the Gods shine
upon your household and family.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18151 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
Salvete quirites, et salve Cesca Daria,

Cesca wrote:

> When do we cast our votes? I thought that voting
> opened at 1800 Roman time (GMT Plus 2 hours) on
> December 12. Thats now passed. Or have I misread
> something?

You're reading correctly. All members of the Comitia
Populi Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa have been
able to vote in those comitia for the last 25 or so
minutes. The centuria praerogativa is voting in the
Comitia Centuriata, and voting there will follow the
timetable put forth by Consul Labienus earlier this morning.

> I tried inputting my voter code, but all I get is a
> page that says the following.
>
> There are three Comitia. Each Comitia elects a
> different set of magistrates. Patricians may vote in
> two of the three Comitia; Plebeians may vote in all
> three.
> The following Comitia are now open for voting:
> After that there is nothing.

That's odd. When I looked at that page just now there
was a listing of three comitia there. You might want to
write to webmaster@... if the page is not
resolving properly for you. You may have a browser
configuration problem, or something odd like that.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18152 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
I Would sugest going to the page and clicking on your browser's reload
button. You may be getting an old copy of the page from your browser's
cache..

L. Sicinius Drusus

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

> Salvete quirites, et salve Cesca Daria,
>
> Cesca wrote:
>
> > When do we cast our votes? I thought that voting
> > opened at 1800 Roman time (GMT Plus 2 hours) on
> > December 12. Thats now passed. Or have I misread
> > something?
>
> You're reading correctly. All members of the Comitia
> Populi Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa have been
> able to vote in those comitia for the last 25 or so
> minutes. The centuria praerogativa is voting in the
> Comitia Centuriata, and voting there will follow the
> timetable put forth by Consul Labienus earlier this morning.
>
> > I tried inputting my voter code, but all I get is a
> > page that says the following.
> >
> > There are three Comitia. Each Comitia elects a
> > different set of magistrates. Patricians may vote in
> > two of the three Comitia; Plebeians may vote in all
> > three.
> > The following Comitia are now open for voting:
> > After that there is nothing.
>
> That's odd. When I looked at that page just now there
> was a listing of three comitia there. You might want to
> write to webmaster@... if the page is not
> resolving properly for you. You may have a browser
> configuration problem, or something odd like that.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
> http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
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>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18153 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Voting Question
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Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:
| That's odd. When I looked at that page just now there
| was a listing of three comitia there. You might want to
| write to webmaster@... if the page is not
| resolving properly for you. You may have a browser
| configuration problem, or something odd like that.

Salve, Gnaeus Equiti Marine.

Nah, I was just doing my "lazy bum" impression through adding the "Vote
Now"-link prematurely. However, as the comitia were only started some
forty minutes ago, after Cesca Daria sent in her question, the link
would've led to the empty page she described. The comitia are up and
running now, though.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

- --

"Qui desiderat bellum, praeparet bellum." - Vetinari
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18154 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: A big thank you
Salve citizens of Nova Roma,

I would like to take this opportunity on the public forum to thank
all of those who have expressed support for my candidacy as
Quaestor, both here on this list and privately. I sincerely
appreicate your support, and am grateful for the opportunity to
continue to serve Nova Roma.

Vale Bene,
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18155 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
Salvete Quirites.

Here I am, ready to follow this peculiar Novoroman tradition one more
year :-). I'd bet that no one would be too interested in who I am
going to vote for, but... what the heck, I am not going to be the
only one that does not make it public!

First of all, I would like to thank all those who have supported my
candidacy during the last few weeks. You all have been very kind to
me.

Now, let's get on with my own preferences (I am the only one who
keeps thinking about the Oscar night? ;-) ):

CENSOR: I am going to vote for K. Fabius Quintilianus. Our censores
have several important duties, but one of the most important ones is
that they are the ones who deal with our newest citizens. Because of
his personal character, and precisely because he has a lot of
experience dealing with people, I think that K. Fabius Quintilianus
is the best possible choice for censor.

CONSUL: Well; I guess that many people will already know who I am
going to vote for ;-). I will also vote for Cn. Equitius Marinus. I
have had the opportunity to know him in the last few years, and I
think that he is a trustworthy and capable person, who will be an
excellent addition to the Senate and who will guide our Res Publica
towards a much needed period of change.

PRAETOR: This is the most difficult one for me, because *all* the
candidates seem truly excellent. M. Arminius Maior and I shared the
Tribunate two years ago, and I couldn't think of a better candidate
to fill the praetorial office. Not only he knows more about Novoroman
law than anyone else I've heard of, but he is trustworthy, hard
working and very kind.

I will also vote for Cn. Octavius Noricus. Whenever we have talked,
he has striken me as a very reasonable person. He is ready to listen
to what others have to say, and he is ready to accept the ideas of
others if he considers them appropriate. All in all, an excellent
candidate to the praetorship.

And then, I will *also* vote for D. Iunius Palladius. I would be
being completely unfair if I didn't, because he is an excellent
candidate as well. Not only has he worked hard to improve the
situation in Britannia, but he is pretty intelligent as well.

AEDILIS CVRVLIS: There isn't much of a competition here, because
there are only two candidates for two positions. But what a pair of
candidates! If Cicero said one thing about the Roman culture and C.
Iulius Scaurus said another, I'd bet that Cicero is the one who'd be
wrong! I am very excited for the prospect of seeing the kind of
historically accurate ludi C. Iulius Scaurus will prepare.

As for M. Iulius Perusianus, his work for the Magna Mater project
speaks for itself. Keep going!

AEDILIS PLEBEIVS: My first choice will be Emilia Curia Finnica. I
have had the pleasure to work with her in the Academia Thules, and I
know how constant, kind and amiable she is.

My second choice will M. Calidius Gracchus. Our Hibernian citizens
need our support :-).

TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: This is going to be long :-).

First of all, I will vote for Iulilla Sempronia Magna. She has the
experience, she has the charm, and she will make and excellent
tribuna plebis.

I will also vote for L. Arminius Faustus. I like the way he thinks.
He will be a good protector of the rights of the Plebs.

I will vote for Fr. Apulus Caesar. If neighbours don't support each
other, what a world would this be? Certainly not a Roman one :-).

I will also vote for C. Modius Athanasius. He strikes me as a very
well balanced, moderate and reasonable person. Exactly the kind of
qualities one would like to have in a tribunus plebis.

QVAESTOR: Once more, eight candidates for eight positions. I will be
voting for them *all*. I am particulary happy to see some names
beginning their Cursus Honorum: C. Curius Saturninus, Arnamentia
Moravia Aurelia, Gaia Fabia Livia and Caius Iulius Marius. I wish
them good luck in their political careers; I am sure that Nova Roma
will benefit with their presence.

VIGINTISEXTIVIRI: I will vote for everyone there, especially for my
old friends M. Minucius Audens and M. Octavius Germanicus, who are
once more upon the breach to serve Nova Roma. My salute, senatores!

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18156 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: yahoo or ML?
> Slave Tribunes,

LOL! Well we're not really slaves but sometimes we are a bit pressed to read the emails ontime :-)

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18157 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: It's time to vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa!!
Salvete Plebeian citizens!

The elections in the Comitia Plebis Tributa are now underway! I've just checked the cista and it is
working perfectly. A big thank you to our Curator Araneum for his hard work!

Remember we now have new voting procedures so Plebeians may vote for 5 candidates for Tribunus
Plebis and two candidates for Plebeian Aedile. Important: Plebeians may vote *now* for their choice
of Tribunus Plebis and Plebeian Aedile, but you can only vote in the Comitia Centuriata and the
Comitia Populi Tributi on specific days. So you can either wait and vote in all 3 elections on Dec
17 when all citizens can vote. Or you can vote right now in the Comitia Plebis Tributa and then
later on in the Comitia Centuiata and the Comitia Populi Tributa.

New voter codes have been issued but you can have it automatically mailed to you by doing the
following:

Just go to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes
Find the name of your gens (they are listed alphabetically).
Two columns to the right of your Gens name, click on the 'number of cives'.
A new page opens that contains a listing of all the citizens in your Gens.
Locate your name and click on the link.
On the new page you'll see a box which contains information about you.
Click on "Get voter code".
On the new page, enter your year of birth and click 'request voter code'.
Your voter code will be emailed to you.
Once you have your voter code, go to http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'.
Then click the "Get Ballot" box to the right of 'Comitia Plebis Tributa'
Then vote!

If there are any questions feel free to email me and I will answer tomorrow. I've just gotten home
form work (where I got great news) and am now on my way out to my company Holiday party :-) It's a
great day to begin the voting!

Thank you for your interest in this election! May the Gods guide you in your choice of candidates!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Senior Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18158 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:

> CONSUL: Well; I guess that many people will already know who I am
> going to vote for ;-). I will also vote for Cn. Equitius Marinus. I
> have had the opportunity to know him in the last few years, and I
> think that he is a trustworthy and capable person, who will be an
> excellent addition to the Senate and who will guide our Res Publica
> towards a much needed period of change.

Thank you Astur, for your endorsement and for your vote.
I look forward to working with you as your consular
colleague next year. There is much to be done.

Not that this will come as much of a shock to you, but
I'll be voting for those same two characters too.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18159 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salve, quirites,

I am indeed grateful for the many endorsements and words of support for my
candidacy. I deeply appreciate the praise I have received from such highly
respected people as Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Caeso Fabius Quintillianus, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Franciscus Apulus
Caesar, Titus Octavius Pius, Caius Curius Saturnius and Gaius Popillius
Laenas.
I believe that all candidates on the ballot are moved by much same energies
that draw me to serve Nova Roma: I am convinced that the only way Nova Roma
will continue to grow and improve is by giving her my committed service.
Therefore, it is only fair to add my voice to the ringing endorsements that
many of my fellow candidates have received.

For Aedilis Plebis:

a.. Emilia Curia Finnica: I have worked alongside her this year and
greatly admire her web talents and her marvelous attention to detail.
For Tribunus Plebis:

a.. Franciscus Apulus Caesar: I have worked together with this wonderful,
creative, energetic fellow for some years now, and would happily call him
colleague, if I am elected. He is a shining light for the cives Provinciae
Italiae, and would make a wonderful tribune.

a.. Lucius Arminius Faustus: I have worked with him in the Decuria of
Interpreters following his energetic lead (he is a tireless translator, one
of the most valuable and, perhaps, unsung heroes of Nova Roma) and, while I
haven't yet learned Portuguese, his devotion to Nova Roma needs few words,
for it is abundantly obvious.

a.. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: I have greatly admired this man's energies
and devotion to the ever-important task of Nova Roma public relations. He is
always there with good ideas

a.. Gaius Modius Athanasius: his piety is very well known, through his
service as Flamen Pomonalis. He has served both his provincia and Nova Roma
well and certainly will continue to do so.

a.. Last, I ask for your vote. I have served Nova Roma for nearly three
years, motivated by nothing more than the desire to make a difference. I am
a follower of the Religio Romana, which has greatly helped my pietas by
imbuing a newfound respect for the natural order.

When I am in good health (and that's always the case, which has made the
last few weeks extremely aggravating) I'd rival Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Lucius Arminius Faustus and Franciscus Apulus Caesar for high energy levels
;-)

Further, I am well able to render a fair assessment and judgment of issues.
I always speak the truth, however I try always to ensure that what I say is
fair and beneficial to all concerned. Negativity in word and deed concerns
me deeply; however, I can only ensure that I conduct myself always with
dignitas, veritas, aequitas.

Gratias multas,

---
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18160 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salve, Matrona!

Unsung heroes of Nova Roma! :)

No problem at all:

Sing, goddess, the wrath of Faustus Arminius
That brought countless ills upon the Novo Romans!
And made magistrates spoil for struggles and every politicians;
thus the Lex of Iove came to fulfillment,
From the time when first they parted in strife
The consules, kings of men, and brilliant tribunes.

What a pretention of mine! Unfortunatly, my ego is ´Caesarian´ size.
It is a shame having touched the ancient romans most on their flaws,
not virtues!

Thanks by the support! Everyone know how I am jealous when I am not
supported! :) I support you too as my colleague!

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE

>
> a.. Lucius Arminius Faustus: I have worked with him in the Decuria
of
> Interpreters following his energetic lead (he is a tireless
translator, one
> of the most valuable and, perhaps, unsung heroes of Nova Roma) and,
while I
> haven't yet learned Portuguese, his devotion to Nova Roma needs few
words,
> for it is abundantly obvious.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18161 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve, Matrona!

et nunc salve, amice,

*gasp* I bow low to superior wit, the muses never speak to me with
such winged words as yours!!

JSM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18162 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Salve, Salix,

>
> TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: This is going to be long :-).
>
> I will also vote for L. Arminius Faustus. I like the way he thinks.
> He will be a good protector of the rights of the Plebs.

> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR


Thanks, Salix dearest,... at least, you addimit ´I can think´ :)

Forgive my good humour and cheerful answers, Novoromans, (well...
like the Iliad parodia last email). With so good citizens supporting
me, sure it is a good omen for next year... and what is the word for
good omen on latin? FAUSTUS! So, FAUSTUS IS THE MAN!

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18163 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salve, Iulila,

MY WORDS? NEVER! It is almost sacrilege!

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hom.+Il.+1.5

Let me say I´ve plundered a very very very rich domus... :)

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<curatrix@v...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
> <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> > Salve, Matrona!
>
> et nunc salve, amice,
>
> *gasp* I bow low to superior wit, the muses never speak to me with
> such winged words as yours!!
>
> JSM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18164 From: fin372000 Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Counting
Salve,

This may be a bit early, but when will the results be announced?

vale

T. Octavius Salvius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18165 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements: Comitia Plebis Tributa
et nunc salve, quirites,

Having just visited the Cista and cast my pebbles, I now turn to endorsing
the candidacy of the following:

For Curule Aedile:

* Gaius Iulius Scaurus: Surely the Gods smiled upon Nova Roma the day that
C. Iulius Scaurus became a civis NovaRomani. The depth of his knowledge of
our history has yet to be plumbed, and my heart leaped when I learned he had
been accepted into the Collegium Pontificum and accepted the flaminate of
Quirinalis. What an outstanding Curule Aedile we see before us!

For Quaestor. All are abundantly worthy, particularly:

* Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia: If I had the eloquence of L. Arminius Faustus,
I would be able to more fully put into words the praise and delight I have
in Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia. I have had the privilege to call her my
legata and have worked beside her all this year. The icing on my crustulum
certainly was meeting her and her wonderful husband, now my gensmate Marcus
Sempronius Sophus this spring for Roman New Year. Any magistrate who
receives her service will be blessed with her piety, her dutifulness and her
ease of manners.

* Caius Curius Saturninus: I have so enjoyed working with Caius Curius
Saturninus this year. He has devoted much time and talent to serving Nova
Roma and this has given him a wonderful breadth of knowledge, not only of
Nova Roma but of project management as well. His attention to detail and
ability to manage multiple priorities are formidable talents!

* Livia Cornelia Hibernia: I am very pleased to see her step forward onto
the path of the cursus honorum. She has hit the ground running this year and
has many great skills and abilities to share, and a warm, enthusiastic
manner.

* Marcus Bianchius Antonius: a fellow provincial praetor, he has many skills
that make him well suited for this office.


For Rogator:

Ah, a job near and dear to my heart, as a former Rogatrix. No magistrates
work harder than these.

* Aulus Apollonius Cordus: he devotes much careful thought into analysis of
issues, and that attention to detail is just what is called for in this
position.

* Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus: his record of service in the
Officina Aerarii and his work in The Eagle make him eminently qualified for
this office.

* Gaius Minucius Hadrianus: my fellow provincial praetor has developed all
the skills needed to help him be an outstanding watchdog for accuracy in
voting.

For Curator Araneum:

* Marcus Octavius Germanicus: were there one candidate or one thousand,
Marcus Octavius Germanicus would always receive my heartfelt support. I have
worked alongside him ever since he appointed me scriba curator araneum, and
I know him to be devoted, highly ethical, hardworking and extremely
talented.

For Curator Differum:

* Marcus Minucius Audens: I so admire this man I hardly know what to say.
He'll have big shoes to fill, but, through his work in the Sodalitas
Egressus, and his vast knowledge of Nova Roma, he has all the skills a good
editor needs (and the firmitas to back up those editorial decisions!)

Cives, please exercise your duty to Nova Roma and vote!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18166 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Thanks to all
Salvete, quiritibus,

I want to most warmly thanks everyone for the support I am receiving.
You know how I am jealous of them! :)

Having already voted, I finish to shake hands and kiss babies on the
forum. The toga candida is brown of powder, wet of walking on the sun
visiting voters, and smiling as never before. And elections have only
just started... oh ambition, oh politics, oh tempora, oh mores, oh
hungryness to serve, oh delightful curso honorum, oh Nova Roma, our
addiction of romanitas! Queen Salus, save me of myself...

Now, I am going to my villa, rest a bit my anxious heart. I thanks
all supports. And pray silent on my Lararium for a good cista.

Oh, ambitious Faustus, roman only on the vicious, leaving the
electoral battlefiel on the starting? The first javelins just were
thrown...
Well, but we must keep the Castra as well! Ulisses had also to keep
calm on the heart...

Just kidding... for the stress... :)

Good election to all, quirites!

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18167 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Good luck in the Plebeian elections
Salvete Quirites!

As a Patrician I may not vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, but I
feel that I am free to wish candidates well known to me Good Luck as
I know them well and want to emphasize there advantages.

AEDILIS PLEBIS

Emilia Curia Finnica
is a very competent citizen who at the moment studies Latin and
Greek. She has served extremly well as webmaster for the Academia and
Roman Times. She has been an assistant in both my Cohors Aedilis and
Cohors Consulis, where she has shown her dutifullness and skill. I
have meet her two times, once in my home when she and her fiance
Caius Curius Saturninus visited me and the other Nova Romans about
one year ago. This summer we were together at the Nova Roman Rally in
Bologna and then we shared an appartment with Cais Curius Saturninus
and a friend of ours (Gallus Minicius Iovinius). For more that two
weeks I had a good chance to see that she is very dedicated to Rome
and Nova Roma. I certainly wish her all the Best in the elections!

TRIBUNE OF THE PLEBS

Julilla Sempronia Magna
is a very kind and thoughtfull citizens. Her intelligens and wit is
wellknown, as is her working capacity and her honesty. She has been
translating some of my messages during my Consulat and during that
perod she has done a lot of work in connection with citizens
contacts. She is a very serious and knowledgeable citizen. She takes
the tradition of the Tribunes very seriously. as her nomen indicates.
I can't think of anyone more fair and ready to defend the
Constitution and the Plebs. I wish her Good Luck in these elctions!

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
has been my Quaestor when I was Senior Curule Aedile. Never have I
met a more hard working person, he was always supporting me and he
administrated most of the Ludi. He is a wonderful person full of
ideas. This is something that he has shown even more of during his
term as Curule Aedile, He has continued the Magna Mater project and
will mean a lot for the project in the future, I am very happy to
have been able to meet him during the Nova Roman Rally in Bologna
this summer. I am sure that the Res Publica in him will find one of
its hardest working Tribunes ever. I wish him Good Luck in the
elections!

Lucius Quintius Constantius
has shown that he is a dedicated citizen and he has done everything
to understand the inner workings of the Res Publica. I certainly hope
to see him as Tribune this coming year.

Lucius Arminius Faustus
is a very fine gentkleman with a certain feeling for the poetic side
of all languages. He is one of the active interpretors of Nova Roma
in which position he has worked very hard. As a Plebeian Aedile has
has excelled and shown the way for future Plebeian Aediles. Even if
we don't always agree, I value him very much. It is easy to wish him
Good Luck in the elections as I know that he will be a very active
and competent Tribune!

Gaius Modius Athanasius
is a very serious and dedicated citizen. He always goes deep into the
issues that he feels need his support. He has run for Tribune before
and I think it would be a mistake to not vote for him this year. I
wish him Good Luck!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18168 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Counting
T. Octavius Salvinus asked:

> This may be a bit early, but when will the results be announced?

The results of the voting in the Comitia Centuriata
will be announced no earlier than 18:01 Roman time
on 24 December and no later than 18:01 Roman time on
25 December. The results of the Comitia Populis
Tributa should be announced at the same time, or
within a few minutes of it.

I can't say exactly when the results for the Comitia
Plebis Tributa will be announced, but I'd expect it
will be within a day or two of the other two Comitiae.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18169 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> I really must emend your comment: It has IMPROVED,
> it is now what it should have been all along,
> however there was a period of a week or two that
> went from bad to heinous.
...
> So by all means applaud the current tone of
> discussion, and hail, remember, and vote for those
> who NEVER stooped to such low tactics, but don't
> give me this selective memory routine...

Since you're not specific, I can't be sure what period
you have in mind. I think perhaps you mean the
vigourous exchange of views about events some years
ago among those who were closely involved in those
events. If this is what you have in mind, then I agree
that it was unpleasant, but I disagree that it was
campaigning. Only one of the people at the centre of
that argument had yet 'come out' as a candidate, and
the issues were completely unrelated to the election.
Perhaps it was made worse by the heightened tensions
of election-time, but in my view it didn't constitute
'negative campaigning' because it didn't constitute
campaigning of any kind.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18170 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Thanks & Endorsements
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

First of all, many thanks to all those who have
expressed support for my candidacy - if I were
slightly vainer I should be tempted to make a
scrap-book of all the nice things you've said about
me. :)

Next I'll give those of you who give a tinker's cuss
what I think a run-down of the candidates I'll be
voting for.

For Quaestor, I'm sure all the candidates will do very
well, but since the ballot paper says 'vote for those
whom you strongly support', I'll choose those with
whom I've had personal dealings and whose credentials
I can therefore attest. These are:
--C. Fabia Livia--
--Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia--
--C. Curius Saturninus--
I'm tempted to add Cornelia Hibernia to the list
merely for her passionate advocacy of the subjunctive.
:)

For Rogator I shall immodestly be voting for myself,
and, equally heartily, for --Flavius Galerius
Aurelianus Secundus--, who has always seemed to me a
model of good humour and good sense, and for
--Minucius Hadrianus--, whose eleventh-hour
declaration shows a laudable sense of duty.

I need hardly tell you that I shall be voting for
--Minucius Audens-- for Curator Differum and
--Octavius Germanicus-- for Curator Araneum: both are
distinguished, eminent and eminently qualified for
their chosen posts.

It's a great shame that Octavius Pius has had to
withdraw his candidacy for Curule Aedile, but I share
his confidence in --Iulius Perusianus-- to step into
his shoes; and I shall also vote with pleasure for his
clansman --Iulius Scaurus--, whose extensive knowledge
and penetrating mind are much in evidence on this list
and have been, if anything, even clearer to me since I
began to work with him on legislative matters.

The choice for the Praetorship is one of the hardest
for me. My own dealings with Iunius Silanus and
Octavius Noricus persuade me that both would be very
well suited to the role. Arminius Maior's impressive
record is equally persuasive, and I don't doubt that
he would make an excellent Praetor; but I think in the
end I'll back --Noricus-- and --Silanus-- since I've
had first-hand experience of their abilities.

For Consul, too, we have three very eligible
candidates, and no combination would come as a
disappointment. And again, those two whose powers of
leadership, organization and legislative acumen I've
experienced personally have the edge over the one
whose equally great abilities are known to me by
reputation only. Moravia Aventina only narrowly misses
out, but my votes go to --Salix Astur-- and --Equitius
Marinus--.

Finally, I shall vote for --Fabius Quintilianus-- for
Censor: I have great confidence in his dedication, his
ability and his moral fibre, and to top it all I'm
attracted by his intention to keep new citizens to the
historical straight and narrow when choosing their
names!

I'll comment on the plebeian offices on the plebeian list.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18171 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Thanks & Endorsements
A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

[...]
> my votes go to --Salix Astur-- and --Equitius Marinus--.

Thank you Cordus. I appreciate the vote and the endorsement.
(And I appreciate even more that you didn't deliver it in
iambic pentameter.)

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18172 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Salve friend Cordus

I beg to differ: The gangup on Drusus was directly political in nature, nor is it the only instance of bad behaviour.

Personally, I subscribe to the old Roman ideal that the only good Barbarian is a dead Barbarian. That not being practicable in a virtual situation, I will use every other means at my disposal to maintain civility on the Lists. If those whose job it is to maintain good order continue to fail to do so, I will simply start working my way through the various Leges and find the appropriate means of bringing this about. Where we lack a proceedure, I will invoke ancient Roman Law.

While I would happily ram a copy of Roberts Rules of Order down at least a dozen throats that I can think of, that too is not practicable at this time. Resorting to the rules, leges, proceedures and antecedents of Roman Law ARE available to me.
Those who get a perverse kick out of bad behaviour, be forewarned: I am about to give you a rude awakening over the coming year.

Vale,
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Dec 12, 2003 3:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] In re Flaviae Tulliae

<html><body>


<tt>
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius<BR>
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
<BR>
>   I really must emend your comment: It has IMPROVED,<BR>
> it is now what it should have been all along,<BR>
> however there was a period of a week or two that<BR>
> went from bad to heinous.<BR>
...<BR>
>   So by all means applaud the current tone of<BR>
> discussion, and hail, remember, and vote for those<BR>
> who NEVER stooped to such low tactics, but don't<BR>
> give me this selective memory routine...<BR>
<BR>
Since you're not specific, I can't be sure what period<BR>
you have in mind. I think perhaps you mean the<BR>
vigourous exchange of views about events some years<BR>
ago among those who were closely involved in those<BR>
events. If this is what you have in mind, then I agree<BR>
that it was unpleasant, but I disagree that it was<BR>
campaigning. Only one of the people at the centre of<BR>
that argument had yet 'come out' as a candidate, and<BR>
the issues were completely unrelated to the election.<BR>
Perhaps it was made worse by the heightened tensions<BR>
of election-time, but in my view it didn't constitute<BR>
'negative campaigning' because it didn't constitute<BR>
campaigning of any kind.<BR>
<BR>
________________________________________________________________________<BR>
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. <a href="http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk">http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk</a><BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18173 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Attention Voters, very important information
Salvete Quirites,

This is really important information so please bear with me.

At this time ONLY citizens of Century 4 may cast votes in the Comitia
Centuria. If you have voted already and are not in Century 4, your
vote is invalid and does not count as per the Lex Fabia de Ratione
Comitiorum Centuriatorum.
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-i.html

This means if you have already voted and not in Century 4 you will
need to vote again at the appropriate time.

I know this is very confusing to many as this is the first real run
under the new election laws. Consul T Labienus Fortunatus addresses
the changes and the voting schedule for the Comitia Centuria in a
previous message http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/18144.

All Plebian civis, regardless of tribe allotment are permitted to vote
until the close of the polling in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Before submitting your ballot please review your choices carefully as
once the ballot is submitted it can not be changed and only your first
ballot counts. The rogators will be "culling out the invalid votes"
during the time frames when voting is restricted to Century 4 and the
days when only the 1st Class centuries may vote so voting out of time
will not be held against you.

New voter codes were issued by the Censors. Please refer to the
message by Censor Marcus Octavius Germanicus on how to receive your
voter code. For ease the link to that message is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/18131

On behalf of myself and my fellow Rogators, I thank you for your
patience and participation in Nova Roma's electorial process.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18174 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
This endorsement letter, agreed upon by all who bear its signature,
namely outgoing Censor Caius Flavius Diocletianus and three former
censors, will be posted by each signee when he is able.



Salvete Cives,

With a complete understanding of the importance of the position of
censor in Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma and what is required of any
candidate for that office, we the undersigned former censors, with a
total of over seven years of service as censors, do hereby endorse
Quintus Fabius Maximus as the most suitable candidate present for
censor in this election. We urge all citizens to cast their votes for
him.

Since joining Nova Roma in 1998, Quintus Fabius has worked his way up
the cursus honorum and has served as scribe, legatus, quaestor, curule
aedile, praetor, consul, proconsul and pontifex. In 1999 he and his
gens were elevated to patrician status. In every position he has
shown rare dedication to Nova Roma and viewed each office with the
eyes of one dedicated to reviving the Religio Romana and the Mos
Maiorum.

Quintus Fabius is one of only a few citizens who have what can truly
be called a thorough Roman outlook on life. He lives and breathes
Rome. The office of censor is the most Roman of offices, and oversees
new citizen applications, new senators, the issuance of notae and the
public morality. It is an office that mostly must be performed
primarily by the officeholder with a small staff, not by someone who
will appoint a large staff to perform the work for him. This two year
office needs someone that is here for the long-term, someone with the
time, ability and desire to serve Nova Roma. Quintus Fabius has shown
he is willing to devote many hours to Nova Roma and in this election
campaign has defended himself admirably on the main list. Unlike
others, he does not let others speak for him but speaks for himself.
Censor requires such strength of character, as Quintus Fabius
possesses.

Citizens, we urge you to elect Quintus Fabius to the office of censor
as by far the most fitting person for this office.

Valete,

Caius Flavius Diocletianus, outgoing Censor
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Censor 2001-2002
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus, Censor 1998-1999
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Censor 2000-2001
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18175 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Ite In Suffragium, Bene Iuvantibus Divis (Voting Begins)
Salvete Quirites

Here is an additional bit of information for you, now that I'm at home
and can check my notes.

> 12 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> Only Quirites of Centuria IV may vote
>
> 13 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> Only Quirites of Centuria IV may vote
> The rogatores shall begin counting the results so far, and have 24 hours
> in which to announce the results
>
> 14 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> Only Quirites of Class I may vote

Class I consists of centuriae I through XIV.

> 16 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> Only Quirites of Class I may vote
> The rogatores shall begin counting the results so far, and have 24 hours
> in which to announce the results
>
> 17 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> All Quirites may vote
>
> 22 Dec, 18:01 Rome time
> Voting ends
> The rogatores have 48 hours in which to tally the results and report
> them to me. Once they have done so, I have 24 hours in which to publicly
> announce the results.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18176 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: attn. factio veneta members.
Salvete omnes.
This year is coming to an end and so my function as dominus factionis veneta. I hope you all enjoyed the games as veneta members. I hope next year we'll have a new dominus factionis and that the games continue. Thank you very much to all for choicing the "blue" . At the end of this year I'll close our group, since it'll come to an end too.
Habetis fortunam optimam et gratias plurimas vobis omnibus ago
Bene valete
L. Pompeius Octavianus
Dominus factionis veneta

Ego sidera stellasque amo et semper amabo. Atque Romam antiquam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18177 From: daniel villanueva Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: For those who requested the full text of the last Senate Agenda
Tribunus Plebis L Pompeius Octavianus Quiritibus omnibus S.P.D

Due to the fact that some citizens requested the full text of the last Senate meeting Agenda, I do hereby copy it into this message. I included also the items withdrawn.

Last agenda :

ITEM 1. Encouragement to invite, find and train potential augurs

At the moment there is only one Augur. The Constitution says: "VI. B.
2. The collegium augurum (college of augurs) shall be the
second-highest ranked of the priestly collegiae. It shall consist of
nine augurs, five from the plebeian order and four from the patrician
order." The aim of this S.C. is to lighten the burden of the present
Augur by encouraging an enlargment of the Collegium Augurum.
___________________

Senatus consultum on More Augurs

"The Senate is conscious of the historical importance of the
Collegium Augurum in Roma Antiqua, and of the amount of work involved
in meeting frequent requests for auspices. The Senate would therefore
encourage the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum to work
together to invite, find and train potential augurs and ultimately to
bring the Collegium Augurum. up to full strength."
___________________

I propose that the Senate approve the Senatus consultum on More Augurs

*******************
ITEM 2. Senatus Consultum de Agnoscitione Fetiali (Senatus Consultum
on Diplomatic Recognition)

There is a need to approve some clear guidelines on how to handle our
"foreign policy". This Senatus Consultum solves that situation by
replacing an old not very clear text with a similar, but much more
complete and clear text.
________________________

Senatus Consultum de Agnoscitione Fetiali (Senatus Consultum on
Diplomatic Recognition)

I. The Senate hereby adopts a four-leveled system of diplomatic
recognition. Each level of recognition shall be junior to each
superior class.

II. Membership in any class except the First class shall include
meeting the requirements of all lower classes.

III. The First Class of recognition shall be given to all nations who
are members of the United Nations, as well as those nations who are
recognized by the United Nations as being independent nations, who
shall be automatically recognized by the Senate as sovereign
territories.

IV. The Second Class of recognition shall be given to those nations
which are projects of genuine sovereignty which have set, in writing,
attainable goals for both such sovereignty and an international
presence, and which have taken and continue to take steps necessary
to achieve international recognition as a legitimate micronation.

V. The Third Class of recognition shall be given to those nations
which are projects of genuine sovereignty, which have attainable
goals for both such sovereignty and an international presence, but
which have not taken necessary steps to attain such a presence and
sovereignty, and the subsequent macronational recognition as a
legitimate micronation.

VI. The Fourth Class of recognition shall be given to those nations
which are serious projects of government but which have no
macronational and/or international goals and no intention of any
sovereignty or macronational recognition.

VII. It shall be possible for nations to move up and down between the
classes of recognition, if the Senate determines a change in
diplomatic status is warranted for any given nation, except those
nations of the First Class, who shall be permenant members.

VIII. A lack of recognition of any nation by the Senate should not be
construed to mean a declaration of hostility or enmity to such
nations.

IX. Those nations, of any class, who the Senate determines, by
whatever criteria the Senate decides upon, are worthy may be given
special recognition inside their class by being denoted as "Friend
and Ally of the Roman People."
____________________

I propose that the Senate approve the Senatus Consultum de
Agnoscitione Fetiali (Senatus Consultum on Diplomatic Recognition).

***************
ITEM 3. Appointment of Governors
_______________

3.1. Propraetor of Hibernia Provincia = Honorable Marcus Calidivs
Gracchvs. Who was the only one who fully answer the call for Governor
for Hibernia Provincia.
___________

I propose that the Senate appoint Marcus Calidivs Gracchvs as
Propraetor of Hibernia Provincia
_____________________

3.2. Propraetor of Mexico Provincia == Honorable Gaius Iulius
Barcinus Ciconius, former propraetor of Hispania Provincia
__________________

I propose that the Senate appoint Gaius Iulius Barcinus Ciconius as
Propraetor of Mexico Provincia
__________________

3.3. Propraetor of Canada Orientalis Provincia = Honorable Marcus
Darius Firmitus
_________________

I propose that the Senate appoint Marcus Darius Firmitus as
Propraetor of Canada Orientalis Provincia

****************
ITEM 4. Tthe Senate Communications Commission

During the last year there has become clear that there is a need for
a more visible communication "line" between the Senate and the
Populus. With the appintment of the Senate Communications Commission
I hope to contribute to a solution of this task.
_______________________

Senatus Consultum on the Senate Communications Commission

The Senate Communications Commission is hereby established to handle
communications between the Senate and the people. Its main tasks
shall be to answer, as far as it may, questions from the public about
Senate procedures and debates; to provide points of contact for
people wishing to approach the Senate; to maintain the Senate's
public profile and promote understanding of its role in government;
and to monitor the interaction of the Senate with the public,
recommending changes to the Consuls if appropriate.

The commission shall consist of the Coordinator Responsorum, acting
as chair, and two other Senators of his or her choice.

The Curator Araneum is directed to set up a page on the website
giving information about this commission and how it may be contacted
________________

I propose that the Senate approve the Senatus Consultum on the Senate
Communications Commission.

***************

ITEM 5. New Plebeian Aedile
_____________

New Plebeian Aedile

No candiate has appeared to take this position until the 31st of December.
________________

As I can't propose any appointment we have to leave this position
empty until the next Senate meeting.

**********
ITEM 6. Investigation and Activities done to prevent from
unauthorised use of our flag

Illustrus Alexander I.C. Probus M. has as my appointed Accensus dealt
with the unauthorised use of our flag by a Croatian group of PC
gamers based on http://spqr.gamer.hr/ The following is his report,
which is already submitted to the Senate. Now we must decide what to
do with this.
________________

Fathers Conscripti,

I would like to inform you about investigation and activities done to
prevent from unauthorised use of our flag by a Croatian group of PC
gamers based on http://spqr.gamer.hr/.

On July the 18th there was issued a Consular Edictum delegating me to
get in contact with the site owners and discuss the issue.

On July 20 I wrote them a message introducing Nova Roma, her
objectives, structure and legal status. I have informed them that I
was appointed as temporary Consular Accensus by EDICTUM CONSULARE
X. issued by Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and my competences to
contact them. I also introduced myself referring to my Bulgarian
macronational citizenship /there are histroricly good relations
between Croatians and Bulgarians based mostly on Anti-Serbian
sentiments/. I saw from the content of their site that this
organization groups nationalistically oriented individuals, so I
tried to explore that.

Since that was the time of the holiday season in Europe, I wait up to
the second half of August before writing a second message sent on the
August 23. In that message I kindly remind them about my first
message and have invited them to visit our web site and if interested
to become citizens of Nova Roma. I have also appealed to unit efforts
of all individuals devoted to the Roman Virtues. That message was
written in English but combined with
salutations in Croatian language.

Since no response was received I decided to apply for a membership
in their group even with some risks. That was done on September 14th.
I saw a risk since there are on their site some indications that this
group of gamers is a militant pro-Nazi oriented /photoes, comments/.
I think that these peoples are relatively young at about teenage up
to 20-22 years old.

Paralelly with that I tried to investigate for a phone number to
contact them. I used the Croatian yellow pages and also support of my
job assistant /He is a Serbian Slovak living close to Croatian
borders and travelling home
every two months via Croatia/. He has some relatives in Zagreb. I
asked him to investigate if there is possible to find somebody
knowing something about that group in Croatia. These efforts have
brought no result since these gamers are stricktly conspirative and
do not publish real identities.

Finally after having no response on the previous messages I send them
a strickt message on September the 28th and informing that
unauthorized use of our flag is not acceptable for Nova Roma. We are
legally registered and our state symbols are part of our corporate
identity and can not be used without our approval according the the
laws of the US. Using these symbols without our approval they risk to
get involved in court procedures and
trials. At the end I recommended them to use other symbols different than ours.

I see non of my efforts have brought positive results as they still
use our flag on their web site. On the other hand I am not sure if it
is worthy to discuss anything with a group of ignorant militant
teenagers. It is a matter of time to get them grow and become adult.
I would be pleased to know some recomendations from your side how to
deal with that issue.

Respecfully submitted

Alexander I.C. Probus M.
ACCENSI CONSULARIS PRO TEMPORE, SENATOR, LEGATUS PANNONIAE INFERIORIS
Bratislava, Pannonia Inferior, MMDCCLVI A.U.C., NOV. I.
________________

I have looked through the site the 16th of November and it seems as
if Illustrus Alexander I.C. Probus M. in the end has succeded in his
mission. I can't find our flag anywhere on their site.

I propose that the Senate decide to, with the above reported fact,
end the mission of Illustrus Alexander I.C. Probus M. and by this
extend its Thanks and Congratulations to him for a task well done!

***************
ITEM 7. COLLEGIUM AERARI

It has become very clear that there is a distinct need to involve the
Senate more in the Budget process, The Senate is the highest
financial authority in Nova Roma, to make financial and Budget
decisions and the Senate need to be well informed in these issues. In
the modern world decisionmaking bodies usually appoint a Financial
committee of some kind. To create such a group I propose that the
Senate within itself create the Collegium Aerarii which will be
involved in the Budget process.To avoid a political fight over the
positions in the Collegium Aerarii the following Senatus Consultum
let the memebrs of the Collegium Aerari be chosen by lot, by the
Rogatores.
_______________

SENATUS CONSULTUM DE COLLEGIO AERARII CONSTITUENDO
(on the establishment of a budget committee)

I. This Senatus Consultum establishes a senatorial committee called
"Collegium Aerarii".

II. The Collegium Aerarii is composed of five Senators chosen by lot
by the Rogatores. The head of the Collegium Aerarii will be chosen by
lot by the Rogatores among the five members of the Collegium itself.
The members of the Collegium Aerarii and its head are chosen on a
yearly basis.

III. The task of the Collegium Aerarii is to advise the Consules and
the Consular Quaestores on the National Budget before it is presented
to the Senate. To this end, the Collegium Aerarii shall check both
the "amount
spent" field for the current year and the "proposed budget" field for
the following year as drafted by the Consular Quaestores, making sure
no mistakes have been made. The Collegium Aerarii shall then have the
power to consider the proposed budget as drafted by the Consular
Quaetores and to propose to the Consules, through the head of the
Collegium itself, any modification they deem appropriate. However,
such a proposal shall not be binding upon the Consules.

IV. For such a task each member of the Collegium Aerarii will be
awarded 3 century points.
_____________

I propose that the Senate approve of the SENATUS CONSULTUM DE
COLLEGIO AERARII CONSTITUENDO.

*****************
ITEM 8. The Aedilian Fund and The Magna Mater Project

According to the The Senatus Consultum about the Aedilian Fund I
hereby present the following proposal from Illustrus Franciscus
Apulus Caesar.
__________________--

The Magna Mater Project

FRANCISCVS APVLVS CAESAR SENIOR AEDILIS CVRVLIS
SENATORIBVS REI PVBLICAE NOVAE ROMAE S P D

According to the Senatus Consultum of July 25 2756
[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/13411%5d and as Senior
Curule Aedile for the year 2756 a.u.c., I officially ask to the
Senate to manage the Aedilician Fund with the goal of raising funds
for 'the Magna Mater temple' project.

1. Preamble

In the year 2755, during the Megalesia Ludi held in honor of the
goddess Magna Mater, the Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus' Office gave me, as his Quaestor, the task
of planning a project about the restoration and the maintenance of an
archaeological Roman monument of public interest. After a long and
attentive study, I identified this subject in the ruins of the Magna
Mater temple, on the southwestern side of the Palatine hill, Rome.

The goddess, honored during the Ludi Megalesia, was, as you all
probably already know, a very important divinity of the Republican
age. Her cult included the more ancient one of the Mother Earth and,
it was believed by our ancestors, was connected with the myth of the
foundation of the Urbs itself. Many temples were built in her honor
in the Roman world, but the most important was the one on the
Palatine, restored by Octavianus Augustus.

During the first year our attention was mainly addressed to the study
of the cult of Magna Mater, the history of the building and about all
the historical and archaeological information regarding to the
Temple. Also, a Joint Declaration was produced, in which illustrious
citizens, magistrates of our Res Publica, and governors of some
Provinciae pledged to support the project. With this purpose a little
informative text website was published including periodical reports
by Scriba ad Historiam Provinciae Italiae Marcus Iulius Perusianus
(attached
below).

At the beginning of the year 2756, when I was elected as a Curule
Aedile, we had enough and detailed historical and religious
information about the divinity and, within the new Cohors Aedilis, we
planned an operative project. Marcus Iulius Perusianus, once he
became Scriba Aedilis and Legatus Internis Rebus, was appointed by
myself and by Provincia Italia to get in touch personally with the
public managers of the Temple and the surrounding
area.

2. Progress of the works

Currently the project is well advances. First we have found the
public bodies responsible and managers of the project.

The 'Roman Forum and Palatine' park is managed by Sovrintendenza
Archeologica del Comune di Roma, which
is the reference body for any finance and bureaucratic aspect of the area.

Early this summer we have met D.ssa Irene Iacopi, director of
Sovrintendenza, and presented her with our
project. She seemed to be favorably impressed and very interested
further collaboration with Nova Roma. As we have been explained, the
Sovrintendenza is just the public owner of the area; restoration and
other works on the monuments are carried out by different groups. The
University of Rome 'La Sapienza' is one of these and the southwestern
area of the hill is usually entrusted to it.

As advised, Perusianus contacted the Department of Archaeology of the
University, meeting with Prof. Patrizio Pensabene, director and
acknowledged as the best expert about that area and the temple.

Marcus Iulius Perusianus is now in collaboration with the Professor
and his first assistant (Alessandro D'Alessio) and he was able to
visit the Temple of Magna Mater, even though it has been closed to
the public for several years.

Pensabene, on behalf of the University of Rome, has made himself
available to our project and has given us much advice to help us
continue our work.

3. Goals

Our goals for the project are the following:

a.. To promote the research and the study of the temple of Magna
Mater and the archaeological evidence
on the Palatine hill connected with the temple
b.. To raise funds for the restoration and promotion of the Temple
c.. To promote knowledge of any religious, cultural, historical and
archaeological aspects of the cult of
Magna Mater and the Temple dedicated to this divinity
d.. To open official collaborations between Nova Roma and the
public entities responsible for the archaeological area of the
Palatine hill
e.. To improve the visibility of Nova Roma in the academic and
institutional world to plan and realize new archaeological projects

4. Proposal

To realize the above listed goals, the Curule Aedile Apulus' staff
has studied several solutions for the promotion of the project, the
realization of software tools and the restoration of the temple.

Of the various options, we, together with Prof. Pensabene, chose the
realization of an official and deeply professional Internet website
as the next step of the project. This website will be used to:

a.. Inform about the current state of knowledge about Magna Mater
and her cult
b.. Display the working progress of the restoration and the studies
about the Temple
c.. Promote the project to academic and public institutions

The website will be divided in two parts: one showing the project,
explaining its history, progress and evolution, and promoting
fund-raising; the other part being a display of updated information
about Magna Mater and archaeological area of the Palatine.

The contents will be controlled by an editorial office appointed by
the Curule Aedile and composed of Nova Roman citizens and a
collaborator from the University of Rome, recommended by Prof.
Pensabene, who will inform the public about the latest historical and
archaeological news. The staff will have a software program to be
able to manage the contents of the site and update it with new
articles.

The realization of the site would be entrusted to Informa scarl, an
Italian company with attested experience in communication and
information for public entities. Information about the company is
available at the site

www.cooperativainforma.it

Among several Internet sites, Informa scarl realized
www.retelavoro.net, www.bedandbest.it, www.equal-odea.org (WAI), a
cd-rom 'Guidalavoro' and other communication projects for Italian
provincial and regional organizations. Informa scarl is the first
Italian company with the European quality certification 'Vision 2000'
for public services and was named in 2001 as the best young European
company in Italy.

The website will be developed in ASP technology, with a static HTML
part with Flash animation, and a dynamic
part with a password-protected manager panel, reserved to the
redactors and updates of the news.

Informa scarl informed us that the price would be
1,500.00 euro (1,250.00 euro + V.A.T + change taxes)/
(about $1,740.00, or $1,450.00 + VAT + change taxes)
for the following items:

- realization of the structure and the design of a professional website

- software for the management of the website

- acquisition of a web domain (i.e. www.magnamater.org)

- tools useful for the promotion of the website

This price seems to be very competitive, having evaluated other
similar proposals from other companies. Attached to this document you
will find a detailed estimate.

Informa scarl would realize the website within 60 days after an
advanced payment day, providing for the technical maintenance of the
created software.

5. Epilogue

As Curule Aedile for the year 2756 and, according to the above
mentioned laws, I ask the illustrious members of the Senate of Nova
Roma for authorization to use the Aedilician Fund to gather 1,500.00
euros (about 1,740.00 US dollars). This sum will be used for the
realization of the Internet website, dedicated to the project 'Temple
of Magna Mater', in cooperation with the responsible of the
Department of Archaeology of the University of Rome 'La Sapienza',
Prof. Patrizio Pensabene.
_______________

I propose that the Senate allow the Aedilician Fund to be used with
the goal of raising funds for "the Magna Mater temple" project
according to the above description in the sections of the preamble,
the progress of work, goals, proposals and epilog.

***********

ITEM 9. The Budget for 2757 A.U.C.

________________

The Budget for 2757 A.U.C. may be seen at the Files section at the
Senate's Yahoo list and as a attachment to this mai (if Yahoo lets it
go through).
_______________

I propose that the Senate approve the Budget for 2757 A.U.C .

****************

ITEM 10. Classifying Nova Roman land in Texas

Nova Roma has been given land in Texas by the Pater Patriae Marcus
Cassius Julianus the "Senatus Consultum to classify the land in Texa"
is intend to regulate this issue.

__________________

Senatus Consultum to classify the land in Texas

The land acquired by Nova Roma in Culberson County, Texas, USA is
hereby designated ager publicus (public land) of the variety ager
arcifinius (unsurveyed land). Its maintenance and administration
shall be the responsibility of the Senate, which may delegate
authority to undertake everyday maintenance to individual senators as
it pleases
______________

I propose that the Senate approve the Senatus Consultum to classify
the land in Texas.

*************

ITEM 11. Exemption from the "age rules".
_____________________

Patres et Conscripti,

As you are doubtless aware, Section III of the LEX IUNIA DE MAGISTRATUUM
AETATE states that "No person may assume the office of quaestor, aedile,
or be appointed to the position of provincial governor, until he or she
has reached the age of 21."

I shall be 21 years old on the 6th of January 2004, but would like to
stand for Quaestor in the forthcoming elections.

In accordance with the LEX VEDIA DE MAGISTRATUM AETATE I am therefore
writing to request an exemption from Section III of the LEX IUNIA DE
MAGISTRATUUM AETATE, which I understand must be approved by a two-thirds
vote of the Senate, and both Censors. I therefore humbly ask the Senate
and Censors to support this request and permit me to stand.

Valete,

Gaia Fabia Livia
____________________

Because we usually have too few candidates for the Quaestorship and
as this citizens only "lacks" six days, I propose that we approve of
her request for an exemption from the "age rules" and grant her
permission to stand for Quaestor in the forthcoming elections.


Curate ut valeatis



Ego sidera stellasque amo et semper amabo. Atque Romam antiquam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18178 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
> This endorsement letter, agreed upon by all who bear its signature,
> namely outgoing Censor Caius Flavius Diocletianus and three former
> censors, will be posted by each signee when he is able.

But not the continuing censor - not the one person who will be
directly working with the voters' choice.

As Continuing Censor, I endorse CAESO Fabius.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18179 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

>
> > This endorsement letter, agreed upon by all who bear its signature,
> > namely outgoing Censor Caius Flavius Diocletianus and three former
> > censors, will be posted by each signee when he is able.
>
> But not the continuing censor - not the one person who will be
> directly working with the voters' choice.
>
> As Continuing Censor, I endorse CAESO Fabius.
>
> Vale, Octavius.

4 out of 5 Censors agree

Fabius Maximus is the best man for the Censor's Job.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18180 From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
> 4 out of 5 Censors agree

M. Cassius has apparently not been asked. So that's 4 of 6 with one
abstention.

Vale, O.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18181 From: ladykarisse Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: New Citizen
Salve!

Si vales valeo.

My name is Louise. I have loved Rome for years but had no idea
until now that a Roman reenactment society existed. I am a very
active SCAdian and am a student of Lingua Latina. There is much I
don't know, so I am hoping to learn a lot here. I'm an extremely
spiritual person and have Hecate, Proserpina and Pluto as my primary
deities. I live in Kentucky here in the US.

Any dialogue would be appreciated.

Vale!

Louise

P.S. I just have to end with this....Carthago delenda est!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18182 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: New Citizen
ladykarisse wrote:
>
> Salve!

Salve Louise!

> My name is Louise. I have loved Rome for years but had no idea
> until now that a Roman reenactment society existed.

While we have Roman reenactors among our citizens, we're not
*exactly* a reenactment society. We're more of a restorationist
society, if you appreciate the distinction.

> I am a very active SCAdian and am a student of Lingua Latina.

Pleased to have you here. I have in the past been both of those.

> There is much I don't know, so I am hoping to learn a lot here.

Have you read our website yet? If not, it's a good place to
get started. http://www.novaroma.org/main.html

> I'm an extremely
> spiritual person and have Hecate, Proserpina and Pluto as my primary
> deities. I live in Kentucky here in the US.

I'm a little east and north of you, in Maryland. I know we have
some very active citizens in Tennessee, but I can't say for sure
about Kentucky just now.

> P.S. I just have to end with this....Carthago delenda est!

I've been to Carthage Illinois, and it's pretty dead.

Anyhow, welcome to Nova Roma!

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18183 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Endorsements
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

I have been called away by a family emergency (my sister has been in
an automobile accident) and my internet access is limited until I
return home. However, I have promised to post my endorsements for the
election and I intend to keep my word.

The two candidates for Censor are both impeccably qualified to fulfill
the constitutional responsibilities of the office. C. Fabius has
impressed me with his willingness to listen and compromise even when
we have disagreed on legislative issues. I believe he is a man who
has Nova Roma's best interests always in mind and who has given much
of himself in service to our republic as Aedilis Curulis and Consul.
I am proud to count him a friend. Q. Fabius Maximus is also a man who
has given an extraordinary degree of service in the offices of the
cursus honorum since early in the republic. I have worked with him in
the Collegium Pontificum and know the depth of his commitment to the
Di Immortales. I am sorely tempted to leave the matter to Pater
Quirinus rather than decide between these two distinguished men.
However, both the lustrum and the nota arise from religious law and
should be administered by a practitioner of the Religio in accordance
with the mos maiorum. It is for religious reasons that I shall vote
for Q. Fabius Maximus.

The three candidates for Consul are also impeccably qualified to hold
office. I cannot conceal the deep fondness and friendship I feel for
Gn. Salix Astur. He was my first friend when I came to Nova Roma and
he first gave me the opportunity to serve the republic as his scriba.
He is a man of extraordinary integrity, a tremendous capacity for
work, sound political and moral judgment, and a pious practitioner of
the Religio. I have been constantly impressed by his intelligence,
prudence, compassion, and sense of justice. I count it as a privilege
for vote for him as consul. I have come to know D. Moravia Aventina
mainly through the Religio and secondarily through watching her
service as Tribuna Plebis. I believe her to be able, judicious, and
pious, and deeply devoted to the welfare to the cives Romani. I
encouraged her to seek the consulship, believing that she would bring
the energy and piety she has shown in the tribunate to consular
service. I also believe she has earned the senatorial rank which the
consulship brings. I shall vote for D. Moravia Aventina for consul.
Gn. Equitius Marinus is a man I deeply respect and one I am honoured
to call a friend. His service as Aedilis Curulis has brought honour
to the office. He is a man of good judgment with whom it has been a
pleasure to deal in matters both political and personal. If D.
Moravia were not running, I would support him enthusiastically. It is
a terrible thing to have to choose between friends. I urge the
Censors to consider Gn. Equitius for adlection to the Senate because
he, too, has earned that responsibility.

It is a pleasure to support two of our most able propraetores for the
praetorship. D. Iunius Silanus and M. Arminius Maior have earned my
respect by their tireless work on behalf of their provinces, building
Nova Roma from the grassroots. I shall vote for both.

I am particularly pleased to speak in support of M. Iulius Perusianus
for Aedilis Curulis. His contributions to the Magna Mater project
mark him as a man of energy, piety, and devotion and, if the Di
Immortales favour my candidacy, it will be a honour to serve with him.
I shall vote for him unreservedly.

We have this year an able and dedicated panel of candidates for
Quaestor. I shall be voting for all of them, thanking the Di
Immortales for the bounty they have provided us here.

I am a patrician and it would not be appropriate for me to speak to
the candidacies in the Comitia Plebis Tributa. May Ceres rightly
guide her devotees.

I am certain that M. Octavius and M. Minucius will serve again with
distinction in offices which they have honoured before. I shall be
voting for each for Curator Araneum and Curator Differum, respectively.

When we were drafting the Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum
Centuriatorum Tributorum, I argued with A. Apollonius Cordus that his
alternative voting system would seriously complicate the work of the
Rogatores. On the spot he pledged to run for Rogator. He is a man of
his word, as well as a man of unquestionable integrity who will bring
great distinction to a largely thankless job. I shall vote for him
without reservation. While I have had my share of disagreements with
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, there is no question that he is an
honest and hardworking citizen for whom I shall happily vote. G.
Minucius Hadrianus is a sacerdos whose contributions to the Religio
are well-known; we are fortunate to hallow the rogatorship with such a
priest and he has my complete support.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18184 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-12
Subject: Re: New Citizen
welcome!
--- cant97@... <cant97@...> wrote:
> Salve!
>
> Si vales valeo.
>
> My name is Louise. I have loved Rome for years but
had no idea
> until now that a Roman reenactment society existed.
I am a very
> active SCAdian and am a student of Lingua Latina.
There is much I
> don't know, so I am hoping to learn a lot here. I'm
an extremely
> spiritual person and have Hecate, Proserpina and
Pluto as my primary
> deities. I live in Kentucky here in the US.
>
> Any dialogue would be appreciated.
>
> Vale!
>
> Louise
>
> P.S. I just have to end with this....Carthago
delenda est!
>
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18185 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: thanks for the support
Salvete,

Thank you for the all kind persons who have in recent couple days
expressed their suport to me. Both Franciscus Apulus Caesar (the
excellent tribune-candidate) and Titus Octavius Pius were asking why
I have waited couple of years before starting my career. The reason
is that I wanted first to be sure that I have enough knowledge and
experience to do the job well.

Valete,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18186 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:
>
> > 4 out of 5 Censors agree
>
> M. Cassius has apparently not been asked. So that's 4 of 6 with one
> abstention.

I am not sure if Fabius asked Cassius or not. Vedius was willing to
sign but I recomended to Fabius he not sign as he is no longer a
citizen.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18187 From: pompeia_cornelia Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Pompeia's Two Denarii
Salvete Omnes Novae Romae:

I initially hesitated to endorse anyone, but upon further reflection
and suggestion that it might be of some benefit to the populace to do
so, I've decided to go ahead.

First of all. When I look at a person's suitability to do a job, I
look at them as individuals. I don't look at their party of political
affiliation as a primary characteristic. Some people are just more
suited in my opinion, and more qualified to undertake certain
magistracies than others. One can be a dynamite Praetor and perhaps
not a good Curule Aedile, and vice versa. So, keep this in mind,
please when you read this. It is very ecclectic in selection, but it
reflects the way I truly appraise things.

Consul:

My first choice would be G. Equitius Marinus

Your flexibility, education, approachability, and growth in your
already existing knowledge of Roman law has been exponential. You are
consistent in your convictions regarding what you feel is appropriate
and what is not, and you express yourself in such a pallitable and
likeable manner. Your students must love you...most of the time
atleast. Moreover, your astounding ability to speak out for the
rights of others, to wit, the religious freedoms of our practitioners,
is commendable, and I am sure, appreciated by those who feel their
freedoms are sometimes challenged in this regard.

A scientist, historian, teacher, serviceman, who has devoted tireless
hours to Sodalitas Militarium, spends time in Sodalitas Musarum, and
has to me, done, as far as my eyes can preview the archives, an
excellent job as Aedile, and Accensus to our Senior Consul Caeso
Fabius Quintillianus. You have also worked along side Gnaeus Salix
Astur, another long time statesman.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, and may the Gods of Roma
and all that is divine shine on you, Bill, know that your hard work
and dedication is appreciated by a good many whom have had the
privilege of knowing you and working with you.


CENSOR

As much as I think both men are qualified as magistrates in varying
areas, I would in my heart of hearts award the edge to Caeso Fabius
Quintillianus as Censor.

I do not subscribe to fears of an oversized staff, as I'm sure not
everyone of these staff members are going to have access to private
information. Unfortunately, no Censor, even with one Scriba,can
absolutely guarantee the actions of another. In a way (and I hope
this is taken as a compliment, as its meant as such) he reminds me of
another former Consul whose styles in some respects I admired, who
perhaps didn't assign formally a large staff, but engaged the populus
in their opinions in the promulgation of legislation, throwing ideas
about, and the like. I see little difference in this and what Caeso
Fabius does, except Caeso Fabius formalizes this a bit. Oh? the
Consul in question was Flavius Vedius Germanicus.

I am not upset or threatened with a larger than usual staff number
(not the whole republic of course :)). I like to see youth engaged in
constructive activities within Academia Thule, a junior advisor,
member of the youth sodalitas, as opposed to being on the street on
drugs, overkilling on alcohol, and the numerous other means they can
have their spirits destroyed. I am most impressed with the fine work
done by many of our younger people. We 'old' people can take a lesson
from them, myself included, on proper temper control.

Caeso Fabius has done, from my experience and knowledge of him since
year 2000, a fabulous job in making bricks from straw, by farming the
provincia Thule into an extremely busy and contributory provincia. He
has worked indefatigably with Salix Astur and subsequent staff in
forming the Academia Thule.

You are a committed teacher, Honoured Consul, a humanitarium,
approachable, and have always remained consistent and fair in your
approach with me and others. Your English is quite proficient, and
your ability and willingness to budget your time and the tempered
wisdom for this position are things for which I shall be voting 'uti
rogas'


PRAETOR

CURULE AEDILE

I really don't have a preference to endorse. I think all candidates
would serve just fine.

TRIBUNUS PLEBIUS

Please consider the hard work and wisdom of Julia Sempronia Magna ,
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Franciscus Apulus Caesar, Lucius Arminius
Faustas, and Lucius Sicinius Drusus.

I will dwell just a tad on Senator Drusus. I am big fan of Senator
Drusus. Yes, oh yes, he presents his messages 'crusty side up'
sometimes, but within the crust lies how he feels about something, and
'why'. We may not like to hear it, especially when he don't agree
with it, but it is meant with the needs of the republic in mind. I
had the privilege of speaking to this gentleman on the phone for three
hours last year, and he was very kind, displayed knowledge of the
Religio, genuine sincerity for best wishes for the republic. I do not
believe for a moment that he would not take a firm stance in
advocating for the rights of citizens when push comes to shove. I
cannot vote for him,being a patrician, but he is a good advocate,
which is what a Tribune does in part. Besides, I do not think it is a
bad thing to have a 'loyal opposition' as we call them in Canada...one
who challenges things, and motivates us to look at things from all
sides, even if perhaps we would rather not.

I've known Druse since early 2001 I guess, and no, we surely have not
always agreed. But he is consistent in his positions, unless there is
good reason to change his stance. His opinions regarding the Gender
Legislation and Gens reform are the same as they were back then. That
is an example of this consistency. He's not a fluff bunny, but I do
believe he does care deeply, and will act for you on his own conviction.

QUAESTORS

ROGATORS

PLEBIAN AEDILES

I wish all of you the best of luck.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18188 From: Neil Lucock Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Citizen
On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 02:18, Bill Gawne wrote:

> > P.S. I just have to end with this....Carthago delenda est!
>
> I've been to Carthage Illinois, and it's pretty dead.
Salve,

I've been to Carthage, Tunisia (Africa) and it's pretty dead too, not a
lot to see. There are some fantastic Roman remains in Tunisia including
an ampitheatre. It's worth going there.They also shot the Tatooine (Star
Wars) scenes at Matmata. I had dinner in Luke Skywalker's Uncle's home.
I suspect the citizens of Cartage in Illinios get fed up of people
quoting Cato.

Anyway, welcome Louise. There's a wide spectrum of people here,
including people who have religious beliefs like yours, classics fans,
military display people, linguists etc. I'm sure you'll find some
kindred spirits.
Vale,
Gaius Cornelius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18189 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Salve Gnaeus Salix,

> And then, I will *also* vote for D. Iunius
> Palladius.

Given that Palladius isn't running for office this
year I'm assuming you mean Silanus :-)

If so I thank you for your vote.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18190 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Salve Flavia Tullia,

I do believe that you've sent me an apology that isn't really an apology.... Therefore in the same
spirit I accept it.

No one else that attended the Roman Days seems to know who you are *except* Marinus. You are only
not in any photos. Strange. There were only about 15 people in the rain on Saturday and again none
of them were you.... Your comment below leads me to the conclusion that you were not at Roman Days
at all and may not even be a woman named Tullia.

< only that one should observe some decorum in so doing, and dress modestly. Indeed, those who were
present at this particular reenactment event would likely concur that a yellow fisherman's
> slicker with matching pants and boots would have been the most sensible
> attire for the deluge which greeted us, for the weather was so dreadful on the
> first day that even the most serious reenactors were exempted from wearing
> authentic footgear, and the legionaries repaired to the museum building.

Dress modestly? You are insinuating that I was not dressed modestly on Saturday but instead was
wearing bellydancing clothes in the rain.
I was wearing a very funeral like black pantsuit with a white shirt underneath. Strange mistake for
someone who is supposedly a 'scholar'.

Even more strange is that the one person who claims to know you (Marinus) defended your statements
against me, but he neglected to mention that he was the one who at the request of his wife drove me
from the camp back to the Hotel to pick up the bellydancing clothes. She thought that it would cheer
me up a bit. Why? Because I had spent the morning in severe pain in my right eye and had been
crying pink tears all morning between the worry that I had done permanent eye damage and the stress
of my father's horrible death a week before. Everyone there saw me enter holding my eye and in
tears... In fact, my eyesight was so disrupted that i walkd in not seeing that I had to pay so
palladius coming in behind me did so for me... My behavior that day was totally appropriate--
unless of course a woman who hides under a tent cryng and later takes photos and then buys the kids
popcorn is inappropriate. .

> Additionally, I did not intend to imply that Tribunus Plebis Diana Moravia
> Aventina had a low character, only that, in her statement of candidacy, she
> adopted the garb of a meretrix, and refused to change this even when the
> learned Iulilla Sempronia Magna gently corrected her.

< I was merely trying to help
> DMA dress more appropriately, as was Iulilla, and administering some
> correction that she chose not to do so, and that too in a flippant manner.

'Refused' to change my statement? 'Flippant manner'? Was Julilla's quite benign sounding comment
('you
should get yourself a nice stolla') an official question to me as a consular candidate? Was it a
well-hidden campaign tactic to be used against because I jokingly answered that if I wanted to take
on a historically male postion that I should wear a toga?

Now *this* is flippant: since *No one* knows who you are. And you gave it away that you weren't even
at Roman Days when you made it clear that you didn't know that I was wearing a black suit on
Saturday in the rain. So consider this 'acceptance' of your apology to be my last contact with you.
I only speak to real people and have never been known to talk to imaginary beings.....

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18191 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Salve Anne,

Thanks Anne! You should have also included the links to your Pagan books in French. We have some
French speaking citizens who may be interested.

It is nice to know that 'real' people who actually exist have nice things to say about me. The
opinion of one imaginary person and the Consular candidate who seems to be the only person who can
see her doesn't mean very much to me.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18192 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Some Endorsements
Thank you Laenas! it is nice to know that yet another Tribune colleague of mine supports me in my
bid for consul!

> Diana Moravia Aventina for Consul
>
> No cive has shown more enthusiasm for Nova Roma than Diana Moravia.
> She was extremely hard working and effective as Tribune this past
> year and she will make an excellent Consul.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18193 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Salve Cordus,

<I'm glad to see that the campaigning has been almost
<entirely positive so far

You're right: Almost but not entirely.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18194 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Endorsements for Tribunus Plebis
Salve Faustus,

<Although I am comming on the inverse way of the ´Plebeian via´ Cursus
<Honorum, I think I must pull the praetextas of some consuls next
<year. (If the tribunes are supposed not to be the pin on the flesh of
<the consules, the veto-nightmare on their proposals, what utility do
<they have?).

<I cannot wait to throw you angry from the curule chair with a veto of
<mine next year! Hum?! Gotcha?!

LOL! I look forward to it!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18195 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Pompeia's Two Denarii
Salve Honorable Pompeia Cornelia Strabo!

I thank You very much fpr your kind words!

>CENSOR
>
>As much as I think both men are qualified as magistrates in varying
>areas, I would in my heart of hearts award the edge to Caeso Fabius
>Quintillianus as Censor.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18196 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Outgoing and Former Censors Endorse Q. Fabius Maximus
Salve Illustrus Marcus Octavius Germanicus!

Thank You for your trust in me!

> > This endorsement letter, agreed upon by all who bear its signature,
>> namely outgoing Censor Caius Flavius Diocletianus and three former
>> censors, will be posted by each signee when he is able.
>
>But not the continuing censor - not the one person who will be
>directly working with the voters' choice.
>
>As Continuing Censor, I endorse CAESO Fabius.
>
>Vale, Octavius.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18197 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Salve Marinus,

> I expect that the matter is not closed, and that some
> people will still have things to say to you. I hope
> that those exchanges will be at least civil, if not
> necessarily cordial.

To me, the matter is not closed at least as far as your participation in this matter is concerned

Rest assured Marinus, both you and this Flavia Tullia can insinuate all day that I acted
inapproprately at Roman Days and make believe that it was an apology (LOL!) and I won't get angry
even while at the same time both you and Salix support each other for the Consulship as if it is a
boys club.

Calling a female candidate a slut (or your nicely phrased wording of 'inappropriate behavior') is an
easy accusation to make because it is nearly impossible to prove or disprove. Whereas attacking my
job as a Tribune is something based on fact and you wouldn't be able to touch me there.

In my opinion if someone posted here that one of our male Consular candidates has for example, an
open marriage no one would even blink. He could still keep his reputation of being a family man
because being unfaithful to one's wife (or at least trying to be unfaithful) is very Roman isn't it?
It's still a man's world even if we are in a virtual world.

If this person exists then I believe in her right of freedom of speech and opinion as I do in yours
an mine. But rest assured that I am looking into the matter. And that was not said in a flippant
manner.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18198 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
Salvete,

Judging from my private emails I may have made murky waters a little
more muddy.

Only the Comitia Centuria has restrictions on voting times based on
Century assignment. Regardless of your Century assignment you may
vote any time in the Comitia Plebis Tributa and the Comtia Populi
Tributa.

Currently in the Comitia Centuria only Century 4 is permitted to vote
(even though the Cista will tell you your ballot is accepted even if
you are not in Century 4). Between Dec. 14th 1801 and Dec 17th 1800
Roman Time only those civies who are assigned to the 1st Class
Centuries are permitted to vote. The 1st Class centuries are
centuries 1 thru 15. Starting Dec 17th 1801 Roman Time until the end
of voting on Dec 22, 1800 Roman time all civis may vote regardless of
century assignment.

If you have already voted in the Comitia Centuria and are not assigned
to Century 4 you will need to revote in the Comitia Centuria at the
appropriate time in order for your vote to count. If your Century
assignment is century 16 or higher that time is after Dec 17th 1801
Rome Time. You will not be required to revote in the Comitia Plebis
Tributa and/or the Comtia Populi Tributa as they are determined by
tribal assignment.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18199 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
>
> Salve Marinus,

Salve Diana,

> > I expect that the matter is not closed, and that some
> > people will still have things to say to you. I hope
> > that those exchanges will be at least civil, if not
> > necessarily cordial.
>
> To me, the matter is not closed at least as far as your participation
> in this matter is concerned

My participation in this matter has consisted of (a) trying to establish
the truth, and (b) trying to explain it to those concerned in as evenhanded
a way as possible.

> Rest assured Marinus, both you and this Flavia Tullia can insinuate
> all day that I acted inapproprately at Roman Days

Diana, I have insinuated no such thing. As far as I am concerned you
did NOT act inappropriately at Roman Days. I had no objection to what
you wore at the time, and if I had I would have told you then, and not
waited six months.

I'm sorry that you feel I've taken sides in this, when my effort has
been to hold myself neutral.

> I won't get angry even while at the same time both you and Salix
> support each other for the Consulship as if it is a boys club.

Who's playing the gender card Diana? I don't support Salix Astur
for Consul because he's male. I support him because he's the better
candidate. I've said repeatedly that you're qualified and that I
would welcome the opportunity to work with you if you should win.

> Calling a female candidate a slut (or your nicely phrased wording of
> 'inappropriate behavior')

I have not accused you of any inappropriate behavior Diana, and I
certainly have not thrown any slurs your way. Please don't put
words in my mouth. I would never say such a thing about you.

> If this person exists then I believe in her right of freedom of
> speech and opinion as I do in yours

If you doubt her existence, as you seem to be implying, then I
recommend you check with the Censors who approved her citizenship.
You should be perfectly aware of the fact that I can not provide
you with her personal census information since that would be a
violation of our laws. But you can ask the Censors to confirm
her existence, or you can ask other people in Nova Roma who have
corresponded with her. In fact, you can write to Paulina Gratidia
(aka Mrs. Marinus, who you know), and she will tell you about
meeting Flavia at Roman Days. If you don't have Paulina's
address handy just ask.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18200 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Pompeia's Two Denarii
pompeia_cornelia wrote:

> Consul:
>
> My first choice would be G. Equitius Marinus

Thank you Pompeia. I appreciate your kind words and ringing endorsement.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18201 From: Flavia Lucilla Merula Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re Clarification
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote



>I do believe that you've sent me an apology that isn't really an apology....
>
I have to say I totally agree. I found her first post extremely
'clever' in that it implied so much more than it actually said. It gave
the distinct impression that we are meant to read it and infer all sorts
of horrible things leaving the writer virtuously able to say at a later
date but I never said that, which is basically what's happened. The
apology, to me, seems merely to have been used to remind of these
scurrilous things we were meant to infer from the original post and I
have to say I also found the implication that we're not suited to a "
literary style, developed in academia" rather patronising.

I think posts like these say more about the character of the poster than
the person they're insulting and it may not be worth much but you've
certainly got my vote for consul.

Flavia Lucilla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18202 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Salva sis Diana

Pax, please!

Diana dear, politics and Flavia are like apples and oranges - two totally separate issues.

Yes, Flavia exists, she is quite real - I and several others have written to her in hopes that she will return to us. If she does, I sincerely hope that you will be gracious in your usual way.
Note please that I leapt to your immediate defense, and am still trying to get Flavia to return: Her opinions were taken entirely out of proportion, the reactions were over reactions, and we really should be focusing on healing at this point.
Marinus was trying to remain moderate, as he was stuck between two friends - who among us hasn't been in a similar situation? How can you fault him for wanting to get at the truth of the matter rather than taking sides? I took sides - your side - and received back from Flavia a letter of strong resentment at not having taken her side! For those of us who like both you and Flavia surely you can see what a no-win situation this has been! Why blame Marinus for trying to get at the truth rather than taking sides?

The other matter - the political endorsement - is just as subjective. Marinus announced who he felt were the best candidates. So what? He has had only favourable things to say about you throughout the entire campaign, has been supportive of your campaign, has said time and again that he would find it a pleasure to work with you as co-Consul if the votes turn out this way - Not "Boys Club" comments! So he threw his endorsement to the candidate he felt was more experienced - so what? I can see how it would be disappointing to you, but please! Marinus is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else. During the campaign, the two of you were so mutually complimentary - so very VERY mutually complimentary that on more than one occassion I was tempted to shout "GET A ROOM!!" ;-D
Really, Marinus has had nothing but nice things to say about you - accept it for the compliment that it is.

Bene vale
~ Servius Equitius Troianus


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gawne <gawne@...>
Sent: Dec 13, 2003 10:05 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] clarification

<html><body>


<tt>
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Salve Marinus,<BR>
<BR>
Salve Diana,<BR>
<BR>
> > I expect that the matter is not closed, and that some<BR>
> > people will still have things to say to you.  I hope<BR>
> > that those exchanges will be at least civil, if not<BR>
> > necessarily cordial.<BR>
> <BR>
> To me, the matter is not closed at least as far as your participation<BR>
> in this matter is concerned<BR>
<BR>
My participation in this matter has consisted of (a) trying to establish<BR>
the truth, and (b) trying to explain it to those concerned in as evenhanded<BR>
a way as possible.<BR>
<BR>
> Rest assured Marinus, both you and this Flavia Tullia can insinuate<BR>
> all day that I acted inapproprately at Roman Days<BR>
<BR>
Diana, I have insinuated no such thing.  As far as I am concerned you<BR>
did NOT act inappropriately at Roman Days.  I had no objection to what<BR>
you wore at the time, and if I had I would have told you then, and not<BR>
waited six months.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry that you feel I've taken sides in this, when my effort has<BR>
been to hold myself neutral.  <BR>
<BR>
> I won't get angry even while at the same time both you and Salix<BR>
> support each other for the Consulship as if it is a boys club.<BR>
<BR>
Who's playing the gender card Diana?  I don't support Salix Astur<BR>
for Consul because he's male.  I support him because he's the better<BR>
candidate.  I've said repeatedly that you're qualified and that I<BR>
would welcome the opportunity to work with you if you should win.<BR>
<BR>
> Calling a female candidate a slut (or your nicely phrased wording of<BR>
> 'inappropriate behavior')<BR>
<BR>
I have not accused you of any inappropriate behavior Diana, and I<BR>
certainly have not thrown any slurs your way.  Please don't put<BR>
words in my mouth.  I would never say such a thing about you.<BR>
<BR>
> If this person exists then I believe in her right of freedom of<BR>
> speech and opinion as I do in yours<BR>
<BR>
If you doubt her existence, as you seem to be implying, then I<BR>
recommend you check with the Censors who approved her citizenship.<BR>
You should be perfectly aware of the fact that I can not provide<BR>
you with her personal census information since that would be a<BR>
violation of our laws.  But you can ask the Censors to confirm<BR>
her existence, or you can ask other people in Nova Roma who have<BR>
corresponded with her.  In fact, you can write to Paulina Gratidia<BR>
(aka Mrs. Marinus, who you know), and she will tell you about <BR>
meeting Flavia at Roman Days.  If you don't have Paulina's<BR>
address handy just ask.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<BR>
Candidate for Consul<BR>
<a href="http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html">http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html</a><BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18203 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed
or inaccurate voter code:

#427

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted
previously to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18204 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Re Clarification
Salvete omnes

Given the vilification and demonization that she had received simply for voicing an opinion, followed by a Virtual Lynch Mob that essentially tarred, feathered & ran her out of town on a rail, are you really surprised?

It speaks volumes in FAVOUR of Flavia Tullia that she was willing to Post again on this site at all! It shows that her love of Roma can overcome whatever treatment she has received. Everyone who Posts regularly stumbles once in a while, everyone starts off as a Newbie who has to learn the local culture and ways. I am still in the process of learning, myself.

Forgive, I ask you, and if you must respond then correct the 'offender' gently and with understanding, preferably in Private.

Valete
~ S E M Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Flavia Lucilla Merula <k.a.wright@...>
Sent: Dec 13, 2003 12:15 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re Clarification

<html><body>


<tt>
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I do believe that you've sent me an apology that isn't really an apology....<BR>
><BR>
I have to say I totally agree.  I found her first post extremely <BR>
'clever' in that it implied so much more than it actually said. It gave <BR>
the distinct impression that we are meant to read it and infer all sorts <BR>
of horrible things leaving the writer virtuously able to say at a later <BR>
date but I never said that, which is basically what's happened.  The <BR>
apology, to me, seems merely to have been used to remind of these <BR>
scurrilous things we were meant to infer from the original post and I <BR>
have to say I also found the implication that we're not suited to a " <BR>
literary style, developed in academia" rather patronising.<BR>
<BR>
I think posts like these say more about the character of the poster than <BR>
the person they're insulting and it may not be worth much but you've <BR>
certainly got my vote for consul.<BR>
<BR>
Flavia Lucilla<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18205 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
Salvete omnes,

This is an interesting post about neutrality. When I have have see
quarrels or differences between my friends I ususally took the
neutral approach as well. Sadly, in my experience,I found that this
does not work. More often than not you end up with both parties
disliking you or outright dispising you. The best thing to do in my
opinion is to stay right out of the fray and give no comment or
support to either side on the particular dispute when you find
yourself in that situation; move on to other business. When I lost
the friends I mention they equated my neutrality with that Vichy
French Police Chief's character in the movie, "Casablanca" which most
of us haves seen. Oh well, live and learn I suppose!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salva sis Diana
>
> Pax, please!
>
> Diana dear, politics and Flavia are like apples and oranges - two
totally separate issues.
>
> Yes, Flavia exists, she is quite real - I and several others have
written to her in hopes that she will return to us. If she does, I
sincerely hope that you will be gracious in your usual way.
> Note please that I leapt to your immediate defense, and am still
trying to get Flavia to return: Her opinions were taken entirely out
of proportion, the reactions were over reactions, and we really
should be focusing on healing at this point.
> Marinus was trying to remain moderate, as he was stuck between
two friends - who among us hasn't been in a similar situation? How
can you fault him for wanting to get at the truth of the matter
rather than taking sides? I took sides - your side - and received
back from Flavia a letter of strong resentment at not having taken
her side! For those of us who like both you and Flavia surely you
can see what a no-win situation this has been! Why blame Marinus for
trying to get at the truth rather than taking sides?
>
> The other matter - the political endorsement - is just as
subjective. Marinus announced who he felt were the best candidates.
So what? He has had only favourable things to say about you
throughout the entire campaign, has been supportive of your campaign,
has said time and again that he would find it a pleasure to work with
you as co-Consul if the votes turn out this way - Not "Boys Club"
comments! So he threw his endorsement to the candidate he felt was
more experienced - so what? I can see how it would be disappointing
to you, but please! Marinus is as entitled to his opinion as anyone
else. During the campaign, the two of you were so mutually
complimentary - so very VERY mutually complimentary that on more than
one occassion I was tempted to shout "GET A ROOM!!" ;-D
> Really, Marinus has had nothing but nice things to say about you -
accept it for the compliment that it is.
>
> Bene vale
> ~ Servius Equitius Troianus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Gawne <gawne@c...>
> Sent: Dec 13, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] clarification
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Salve Marinus,<BR>
> <BR>
> Salve Diana,<BR>
> <BR>
> > > I expect that the matter is not closed, and that some<BR>
> > > people will still have things to say to you.  I hope<BR>
> > > that those exchanges will be at least civil, if not<BR>
> > > necessarily cordial.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > To me, the matter is not closed at least as far as your
participation<BR>
> > in this matter is concerned<BR>
> <BR>
> My participation in this matter has consisted of (a) trying to
establish<BR>
> the truth, and (b) trying to explain it to those concerned in as
evenhanded<BR>
> a way as possible.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Rest assured Marinus, both you and this Flavia Tullia can
insinuate<BR>
> > all day that I acted inapproprately at Roman Days<BR>
> <BR>
> Diana, I have insinuated no such thing.  As far as I am concerned
you<BR>
> did NOT act inappropriately at Roman Days.  I had no objection to
what<BR>
> you wore at the time, and if I had I would have told you then, and
not<BR>
> waited six months.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm sorry that you feel I've taken sides in this, when my effort
has<BR>
> been to hold myself neutral.  <BR>
> <BR>
> > I won't get angry even while at the same time both you and
Salix<BR>
> > support each other for the Consulship as if it is a boys club.<BR>
> <BR>
> Who's playing the gender card Diana?  I don't support Salix
Astur<BR>
> for Consul because he's male.  I support him because he's the
better<BR>
> candidate.  I've said repeatedly that you're qualified and that
I<BR>
> would welcome the opportunity to work with you if you should
win.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Calling a female candidate a slut (or your nicely phrased wording
of<BR>
> > 'inappropriate behavior')<BR>
> <BR>
> I have not accused you of any inappropriate behavior Diana, and
I<BR>
> certainly have not thrown any slurs your way.  Please don't put<BR>
> words in my mouth.  I would never say such a thing about you.<BR>
> <BR>
> > If this person exists then I believe in her right of freedom
of<BR>
> > speech and opinion as I do in yours<BR>
> <BR>
> If you doubt her existence, as you seem to be implying, then I<BR>
> recommend you check with the Censors who approved her
citizenship.<BR>
> You should be perfectly aware of the fact that I can not provide<BR>
> you with her personal census information since that would be a<BR>
> violation of our laws.  But you can ask the Censors to confirm<BR>
> her existence, or you can ask other people in Nova Roma who have<BR>
> corresponded with her.  In fact, you can write to Paulina
Gratidia<BR>
> (aka Mrs. Marinus, who you know), and she will tell you about <BR>
> meeting Flavia at Roman Days.  If you don't have Paulina's<BR>
> address handy just ask.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<BR>
> Candidate for Consul<BR>
> <a href="http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-
consul/index.html">http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-
consul/index.html</a><BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18206 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Advice on Voting
Salvete Quirites,

I have read a number of endorsements lately, an I have to say I'm rather
disappointed in some in the reasons we have been advised to vote for or
against a candidate. I Have seen many endorsements based on personality.
That would be fine if we were holding an election for Miss Congeniality,
but I haven't seen that "office" listed among those being contested.
Attendance at some event or another, the number of hands shaken, or the
number of babies kissed is NOT a qualification for Consul, for Praetor,
or for any other position of leadership. You should be voting for the
best qualified candidate even if it's someone whom you personally dislike.

Even more disturbing I have seen endorsements that hinted at geographic
reasons to vote for a candidate. We are ALL Romans. Voting for someone
simply because they happen to reside in the same Macronation, the same
Continent, or any other geographical criteria is as shallow and bigoted
as voting for someone because of the color of their skin. Don't fall
into that trap, if we adopt an "Us against Them" mentality then Nova
Roma will not endure as a united nation, it will split into regional
nations that spend as much time hurling insults at each other as doing
anything constructive.

When you cast your ballot you should only consider real qualifications,
things like experience, knowledge, and where the candidate wants to lead
Nova Roma, not some of the trivial matters that have been raised as
reasons for an endorsement.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18207 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Comitia Centuriata How-To
My honored colleague Quintus Cassius Calvus has tried to explain the
new Comitia Centuriata voting system.

Let me see if I can give you a step-by-step. I voted against this
lex, and the following procedure is why...

Comitia Centuriata Staggered Voting Procedure
(For magisterial elections, only)

1. A century is selected by lot among the rogatores as the 'century
praerogativa.'

2. First 48 hours: Only members of the century praerogativa may
vote.

3. 24 hours after start of voting: Rotagores tally the vote of the
century praerogativa and announce the results within 48 hours after
the start of voting.

4. 48 hours after the start of voting members of centuries 1-15 may
vote.

5. 96 hours after voting starts, the rogatores must tally the votes
received so far. The results must be given within 24 hours after
that.

6. At 120 hours after the start of voting, everyone else who has not
yet voted may cast a ballot.

7. Voting ceases in the Comitia Centuriata 216 hours after it begins.


For this election, that breaks down to:

Dec. 12, 2003 at 1800: Voting begins. Only the century praerogativa
may vote.

Dec. 13, 2003 at 1800: Rogatores tally the vote of the century
praerogativa. They must report it to the presiding magistrate by
Dec. 14, 2003 at 1800.

Dec. 14, 2003 at 1800: The members of centuries 1-15 may vote, as
well as anyone from tne century praerogative who has not yet voted.

Dec. 16, 2003 at 1800: The rogatores tally the votes cast to that
point and must give the results to the presiding magistrate by Dec.
17, 2003 at 1800.

Dec. 17, 2003 at 1800: Anyone who has not yet cast a ballot may now
vote.

Dec. 21, 2003 at 1800: Voting ends.

Dec. 23, 2003 at 1800: Rogatores must deliver the completed tally
and certified results to the presiding magistrates by this time.

Dec. 24, 2003 at 1800: The presiding magistrate must report the
results of the election to the populace by this time.

I hope that helps!

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18208 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
--- g_iulius_scaurus <gfr@...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.
>
> <snip>
>
> In short,
> for a number of reasons, auspices were never taken
> for the Concilium
> Plebis or Comitia Plebis Tributa in Roma antiqua.
> This is the mos
> maiorum.
>

I agree completely and I was very glad during the
debate on the Senior Tribune's lex for your earlier
analysis. This was the primary reason why I
eventually voted "no" on that lex, as I felt that the
benefit of having five Tribunes elected did not
outweigh the liability of going against the mos
maiorum in the matter of requesting auspices for the
Comitia Plebis Tributa.

> The blunt fact of the matter is that the Vedian
> legislation on the
> formation of the Comitia Plebis Tributa in NR got it
> wrong (looking at
> the texts of the three Comitia laws, I frankly
> wonder if it weren't an
> artifact of the somewhat cookie-cutter approach to
> legal language
> which facilitated this error, as well as the
> author's unfamiliarity
> with the historical facts). I frank wonder if NR
> collectively owes
> Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, from whom all auspicia
> come, a piaculum for
> having gotten it wrong for so long (this is a matter
> I intend to raise
> with the Collegium Pontificum), even if it were done
> with the best of
> intentions and in ignorance.

Again I agree. The problem arises that the Nova
Roman Constitution does not recognize the mos maiorum
as a legislative source. I would prefer that it did,
but it doesn't.

One of the primary functions of the Tribunes is to
ensure that things are done in accordance with the
Constitution as written, not as we would like it to
read.
>
> All the Collegia Pontificum et Augurum have done in
> the recent
> decretum with respect to the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> is clarify when a
> _state religious_ practice may not be done, and in
> doing so have
> brought us closer to the example of the historical
> mos maiorum. The
> Collegia have acted to ensure that proper religious
> observance in
> accordance with the mos maiorum is carried out and
> that the
> independence and dignitas of the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa be respected
> in a way in which our Roman forebearers thought
> necessary and proper.

I once again agree with you that the Collegia has
sought to come closer to the mos maiorum. An attitude
that I agree with and support. However, in doing so,
it brings up the question of does the Senior Tribune's
lex or the decretum take precedence, which is
essentially a question of constitutional
interpretation.

> I am frankly astounded that a measure which was
> aimed at
> strengthening the historical religious basis of the
> independence and
> dignitas of the Comitia Plebis Tributa has been
> taken as a usurpation
> of a right of the plebs. Nothing was further from
> the intent of the
> Collegia; I know because I proposed the section in
> question and made
> the principal argument for it.

I applaud you for doing so. What concerns me is the
fact that it seems that no one considered the awkward
position that this puts the Tribunes in. The Tribunes
are the primary defenders of the Constitution in Nova
Roma. If the clause dealing with legal precedence is
to have any meaning, then it means what it says when
it says that leges passed in comitia take precedence
over decreta of the priestly collegia. So in order to
comply with the Constitution, a presiding Tribune must
request the auspices, even against the decretum of the
Collegium Pontificum. Fortunately, the Collegium
Pontificum does not have to accede to the request.
That is solely within their own discretion.
The Constitution gives exclusive authority to
the public religious institutions over the Religio,
provided that their actions are constitutional.

Perhaps a hypothetical example would help to
illustrate my point:

Let's suppose that the Collegium Pontificum
decided to decree that the number of Pontifices be
reduced from 14 to 10. Clearly, under the
Constitution the Collegium Pontificum has the
exclusive right in matters of its own organization,
but this decree would be unconstitutional since the
Constitution states that the number of Pontifices is
14. Absent a change in the Constitution, the
Collegium Pontificum cannot reduce the regular number
of its members by decree.

So the Collegium's power over the Religio is
exclusive, but not absolute. If it was, what would be
the point of giving the Tribunes the authority to veto
pontifical decrees?

So you see the predicament that this places
next year's Tribunes in? If the Constitution is to be
applied, the Tribunes need to request that the
auspices be taken (as the Senior Tribune's lex takes
precedence). If the Tribunes accept the pontifical
decree, then they themselves violate the Constitution
that they are the primary defenders of.

It's further complicated by the fact that
failure to apply the pontifical decree may also be
considered unconstitutional.

I have been searching for a way to reconcile
the difficulties created by these clauses of the
Constitution. My conclusion was the same as that of
Quintus Cassius Calvus.

Most of us (I believe) are familiar with
Western-style constitutions. My experience in
constitutional interpretation is mostly through the
American and Canadian varieties. In Canada, there are
certain things that Parliament "may" legislate in. In
those areas, if Parliament chooses not to legislate on
those matters, then the Provincial legislatures may
legislate as they see fit. But once Parliament has
"occupied the field" no Provincial legislature is
allowed in that matter.

I mention this because I believe these clauses
of the Constitution can be read in as a double "occupy
the field" type. That is to say, if a comitia has
spoken, that decision cannot be subsequently
overridden by the Collegium Pontificum. Once the
Collegium Pontificum has "occupied the field" none of
the comitiae may then overturn that decision. In
applying it in the instant case, had there been no
legislation prescribing taking the auspices for the
Comitia Plebis Tributa and the Collegium Pontificum
passed the augury decree, it would stand, and the
Comitia Plebis Tributa would be foreclosed from
requesting auspices.

The other possible way I see to reconcile this is
to conclude that the original provision in the lex was
itself unconstitutional, as having usurped the right
of the Collegium Pontificum to regulate this matter.
In which case, that portion of the lex is invalid and
the pontifical decree takes precedence as the highest
subsisting constitutional authority in the matter.

> I look forward to the day when
> the plebeian population was sufficiently a majority
> of our citizenry
> that the provision for devolving to the Comitia
> Populi Tributa is no
> longer necessary and wanted to make certain that no
> religious
> impediment to the complete independence of the
> tribuni plebis as
> presiding magistrates of the Comitia Plebis remained
> in law.
>

As do I. This brings up a related question.

Because of the current numbers it is my
understanding that legislation from the Tribunes that
does not involve the internal procedures of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa must now be presented before
the Comitia Populi Tributa. Does that mean that a
Tribune presiding in the Comitia Populi Tributa will
be required to request the auspices?

I note that the newly passed Lex Fabia de Ratione
Comitiorum Populi Tributorum only contemplates the
consuls or praetors calling the comitia to order. It
doesn't mention our current situation in which that
Comitia may also be called to order by a tribune.



Lucius Quintius Constantius

__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18209 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Endorsements (why I won't make any)
There have been a flurry of endorsement
announcements on both the Main List and the Plebeian
list during this election period. Lest my silence in
this matter be misconstrued, I decided to take a
little time to explain why I don't issue endorsements.

Voting in a Republic is a sacred matter.
Fortunately, Nova Roma ensures the secrecy of the
ballot box (as do most Republics).

I do put a great deal of weight on what is said
about a candidate's abilities and proclivities. So I
do appreciate having factual information on how a
candidate has handled him/herself in past duties.

However, I put no weight whatsoever in endorsements.
Though I try to see things in the most positive light
possible as often as possible, I feel that a public
endorsement is often just a request for patronage
couched in another form.

As a Tribune candidate, if I endorsed some
candidates then that could create an awkward situation
should a candidate that I failed to endorse win during
the elections. That person may then be bitter towards
me and decide to retaliate by withholding their
support from legislation that I want, not because of
its merits, but because of their resentment at me not
endorsing them.

I appreciate the statements of support from some
that have come through the mailing list already.

I do not issue endorsements, nor do I ask for them.

If you feel I am the right person for the Tribune's
job then vote for me, if you feel that I'm not, then
vote for someone else.

I think Nova Roma has a fine group of candidates
this year and she would be well-served no matter which
of them are elected.

I will not comment any further on the other
candidates. My vote is my comment.

Lucius Quintius Constantius

__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18210 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
Law X.

The setting of the sun shall be the extreme limit of
time within which a judge must render his decision.

-------------------------------------------------------

Lucius Quintius Constantius

__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18211 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
politicog wrote:

>
> Because of the current numbers it is my
> understanding that legislation from the Tribunes that
> does not involve the internal procedures of the
> Comitia Plebis Tributa must now be presented before
> the Comitia Populi Tributa. Does that mean that a
> Tribune presiding in the Comitia Populi Tributa will
> be required to request the auspices?

The ban on Auspices only applies to the Comitia Plebis, not to the
Comitia Populi Tributa, so the Auspices will have to be conducted no
matter who calls the Comitia Populi Tributa. If the Magistrate who
summons the people is qualified to conduct the Auspices they may do so,
but no Tribune is qualified. This doesn't have anything to do with their
Plebeian Status. A Plebeian Consul or Praetor who is a practitioner of
the Religio can conduct the Auspices. It's the Tribune's lack of
Imperium that prevents them from conducting Auspices or Rituals on
behalf of the State. The Grant of Imperium has Religious implications,
it's not just a grant of secular powers. Imperium is required for a
magistrate to conduct any rituals on behalf of the state.

Since Auspices are required for the Comitia Populi Tributa and a Tribune
lacks the authority to conduct them they will have to request that
auspices be conducted for them.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18212 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Question for Censor Candidates
Here is a related question to those asked by Gaius
Iulius Scaurus.

Under the Lex Octavia de Senatoribus, it is provided
that regular members of the Senate must cast votes in
at least one-third of the Senate's sessions in a given
calendar year.

Will you look over the Senate voting record for the
past year and determine if any Senator is eligible for
removal under this lex?

Lucius Quintius Constantius

__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18213 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
Salve Luci,

Is that Rome, Eastern Standard, Rocky Mountain or Pacific time?
standard time zones were not invented until the mid or late 19th
century for the railroads from what I remember.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, politicog <politicog@y...> wrote:
> Law X.
>
> The setting of the sun shall be the extreme limit of
> time within which a judge must render his decision.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lucius Quintius Constantius
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18214 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Salve Louise;
welcome to Nova Roma, it really is a wonderful place. Join a Gens
and apply to become a civis & then..politics, real time meetings,
join us over at the Religio Romana list, take a course or help
instruct at Academia Thules, read The Roman Times, the sodalitates...
Except for the militarum we're not re-enactors, we're literally
acting to revive Roma Aeterna,
bene vale in pace deorem!
Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "ladykarisse" <cant97@b...> wrote:
> Salve!
>
> Si vales valeo.
>
> My name is Louise. I have loved Rome for years but had no idea
> until now that a Roman reenactment society existed. I am a very
> active SCAdian and am a student of Lingua Latina. There is much I
> don't know, so I am hoping to learn a lot here. I'm an extremely
> spiritual person and have Hecate, Proserpina and Pluto as my
primary
> deities. I live in Kentucky here in the US.
>
> Any dialogue would be appreciated.
>
> Vale!
>
> Louise
>
> P.S. I just have to end with this....Carthago delenda est!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18215 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salvete omnes,


I want to say my sincere thanks to everybody who has lately endorsed me:

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (my endorsement for Censor):
Thank you too for a very nice time in Bologna and Rome. In fact, all
the pictures I used on my campaign site a from the same trip. :) And,
thank you for noticing all my previous engagements within your
Cohors' and other things.

Julilla Sempronia Magna (my endorsement for Tribunus plebis):
Thank you for your nice words (especially those on paying attention
to details :) ) and being a very nice and helpful person.

Franciscus Apulus Caesar (my endorsement for Tribunus plebis):
Thank you once again! I'm happy that you have liked my previous work.

Titus Octavius Pius:
Thank you for support! I'm very happy having met you a year ago in Sweden. :)

Gnaeus Salix Astur (my endorsement for Consul):
Thanks! I must say that I have been very impressed by your work in
Academia Thules!

Manius Constantinus Serapio:
Thank you for your faith! I would surely endorse you if you were
applying for an office this year.

And, of course, my dear life companion Caius Curius Saturninus (my
endorsement for Quaestor with Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia):
I say publicly what I've already sayed privately: Thaks for all of
your love and support! I, along with other people, am very happy to
see you applying for Quaestorship.


I'm sorry for being a bit late sending my answers, my exams continue
for an another week because of a renovation at the university. I also
played a role in the Christmas play in our department's Saturnalia -
it's an old Finnish play, but we traditionally act and sing in
ancient Latin, Greek and Arabic. :)


Valete,
--


Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18216 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Ah thanks for the reminder Emilia :-)

While I think that all 3 Plebeian candidates are fine ones, my vote will go to Emilia Curia and
Marcus Calidius Gracchus since they are the ones who are actively seeking this office with
enthusiasm!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18217 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
Salve Honorable Lucius Quintius Constantius!

I expect the present pair of Censors to look into what happens during
their term. As the "next" pair will have to deal with what happens
during their term.

>Here is a related question to those asked by Gaius
>Iulius Scaurus.
>
> Under the Lex Octavia de Senatoribus, it is provided
>that regular members of the Senate must cast votes in
>at least one-third of the Senate's sessions in a given
>calendar year.
>
> Will you look over the Senate voting record for the
>past year and determine if any Senator is eligible for
>removal under this lex?
>
>Lucius Quintius Constantius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18218 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> I beg to differ: The gangup on Drusus was directly
> political in nature, nor is it the only instance of
> bad behaviour.

Political certainly; all I say that I don't consider
it part of anyone's electoral campaign, and therefore
it doesn't count as 'negative campaigning' because it
wasn't campaigning of any kind. But of course there is
room for disagreement about precisely what constitutes
campaigning.

> Personally, I subscribe to the old Roman ideal
> that the only good Barbarian is a dead Barbarian.

Goodness me, I hope this isn't said in seriousness.
What about a more constructive approach: the only good
barbarian is a barbarian trying to become civilized?

> That not being practicable in a virtual situation, I
> will use every other means at my disposal to
> maintain civility on the Lists. If those whose job
> it is to maintain good order continue to fail to do
> so, I will simply start working my way through the
> various Leges and find the appropriate means of
> bringing this about. Where we lack a proceedure, I
> will invoke ancient Roman Law.

I think the Praetors are fulfilling their duty of
moderation quite adequately: their brief is quite
specific, and doesn't permit them to stop people
criticising one another. They are primarily arbiters,
not prosecutors. The work of bringing prosecutions
lies with private citizens.

I can save you some time 'working your way through the
various leges': the ones you want are the lex Salicia
Iudiciaria (lex number LXI in the tabularium), which
sets out the general rules of the judicial system, and
the lex Salicia Poenalis (number LXXII), which defines
various crimes and their penalties. The relevant
crime, should you wish to prosecute anyone, is
calumnia (paragraph xiv).

Prosecution of a citizen for calumnia is not lightly
to be undertaken - the burden of proof would be on you
to prove that what the accused citizen said was (a)
false, (b) defamatory and (c) damaging to the
reputation of the injured party. I suspect you will
find that people can, if they are careful, be quite
unpleasant while skilfully avoiding saying anything
that is clearly false. However, I applaud your
determination to hold people to the law, and if you
believe there's a case to be made, fair enough.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18219 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: For those who requested the full text of the last Senate Agenda
A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune L. Pompeius Octavianus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Thanks for this - I appreciate your hard work, as I'm
sure does everyone.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18220 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: New Decretum regarding Augury
A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Quintius Constantius and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Not wishing to repeat myself unnecessarily I shan't
respond to your points in detail, but I invite you to
consider my recent suggestion for an interpretative
principle which would resolve these problems. I would
be interested to hear your comments.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18221 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: In re Flaviae Tulliae
Salve Cordus!

Ha ha, okay - I'll concede that a barbarian wanting to become civilized IS the better option, but otherwise I'd prefer it if they went off somewhere private and whacked on each other and left the rest of us out of it! I was speaking metaphorically anyway,
so to carry the metaphor forward let me state that helping barbarians become civilized is the goal here. If they don't care to behave in a civilized manner, then there are those of us who would like to invite them to take their fighting elsewhere. Note that I am not trying to abridge anyone's freedom of speech here or asking those with genuine enmity to "get along" - they can loathe each other in the coarsest terms in private all they want. They can even take it into the "Back Alley" for all I care, if they want to keep it a group fight.
However, since the main website points newcomers to the Main List, while the Back Alley is an option one has to actively seek out, this sort uncivil behaviour really has to stop happening on the Main List.

As for the admission that it was "political" but somehow not "negative campaigning" (it certainly wasn't Positive, my friend!), I think that's parsing things a tad too fine - more akin to splitting hairs, but I won't argue with you: You would know their motives better than I. However, in the future such personal arguments should be conducted in private and off the Main List. That goes for both sides, since it generally takes at least two sides to have a fight -- I don't want anyone to feel as though they are being singled out for criticism, since that is certainly NOT my intent. The point is that private arguments should be privately done.

Since I don't know what oaths the Praetors have sworn, I really cannot render an opinion on the discharging of their duties. If those duties include maintaining public civility or upholding the Main List Guidelines for posting, then clearly there is a problem:
The Guidelines are not being adhered to. Public civility is not being maintained. This is causing Citizens to un-subscribe from the Main List, while others are so disgusted by the hostility they are considering resigning their Citizenship, and I strongly suspect it is having an adverse effect on new membership. I know the first two for a fact, based on private e-mails I have received since first speaking out on this subject, and the third is a reasonable supposition based on the first two. This is a real problem.

Thank you for the pointers on which Leges would be most relevant. It is my sincerest wish that conditions will never reach that point, and that conditions on the Main List can be improved through the simple use of friendly reminders of the Guidelines and the occassional private note requesting the parties to "take it outside", as it were.

I appreciate your taking the time to reply, and hope we can work together in reigning in some of our more rambuctious colleagues, to make this a more welcoming List for the exchange of ideas and discussions of our future.

Cordially yours,
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From:
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Sent: Dec 13, 2003 7:15 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] In re Flaviae Tulliae

A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius
Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

>   I beg to differ: The gangup on Drusus was directly
> political in nature, nor is it the only instance of
> bad behaviour.

Political certainly; all I say that I don't consider
it part of anyone's electoral campaign, and therefore
it doesn't count as 'negative campaigning' because it
wasn't campaigning of any kind. But of course there is
room for disagreement about precisely what constitutes
campaigning.

>   Personally, I subscribe to the old Roman ideal
> that the only good Barbarian is a dead Barbarian.

Goodness me, I hope this isn't said in seriousness.
What about a more constructive approach: the only good
barbarian is a barbarian trying to become civilized?

> That not being practicable in a virtual situation, I
> will use every other means at my disposal to
> maintain civility on the Lists.  If those whose job
> it is to maintain good order continue to fail to do
> so, I will simply start working my way through the
> various Leges and find the appropriate means of
> bringing this about.  Where we lack a proceedure, I
> will invoke ancient Roman Law.

I think the Praetors are fulfilling their duty of
moderation quite adequately: their brief is quite
specific, and doesn't permit them to stop people
criticising one another. They are primarily arbiters,
not prosecutors. The work of bringing prosecutions
lies with private citizens.

I can save you some time 'working your way through the
various leges': the ones you want are the lex Salicia
Iudiciaria (lex number LXI in the tabularium), which
sets out the general rules of the judicial system, and
the lex Salicia Poenalis (number LXXII), which defines
various crimes and their penalties. The relevant
crime, should you wish to prosecute anyone, is
calumnia (paragraph xiv).

Prosecution of a citizen for calumnia is not lightly
to be undertaken - the burden of proof would be on you
to prove that what the accused citizen said was (a)
false, (b) defamatory and (c) damaging to the
reputation of the injured party. I suspect you will
find that people can, if they are careful, be quite
unpleasant while skilfully avoiding saying anything
that is clearly false. However, I applaud your
determination to hold people to the law, and if you
believe there's a case to be made, fair enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18222 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@a...> wrote:
> Salvete Quinte Calve et omnes ,
>
> "Only the Comitia Centuria has restrictions on voting times based on
Century assignment. Regardless of your Century assignment you may
vote any time in the Comitia Plebis Tributa and the Comtia Populi
Tributa.

Currently in the Comitia Centuria only Century 4 is permitted to vote
(even though the Cista will tell you your ballot is accepted even if
you are not in Century 4). Between Dec. 14th 1801 and Dec 17th 1800
Roman Time only those civies who are assigned to the 1st Class
Centuries are permitted to vote. The 1st Class centuries are
centuries 1 thru 15. Starting Dec 17th 1801 Roman Time until the end
of voting on Dec 22, 1800 Roman time all civis may vote regardless of
century assignment."


Quinte, these election regulations were drawn up and voted on so I do
not consider them your problem.
I just wish to point out to all concerned that I have the heaby
jeabies about this staggered voting. First of all, in the Macro world
it is the festive season and many people are going to be tied up,
occupied, travelling in this time frame or have their minds on many
other things. They jump to vote on the first few days and may forget
about coming back to vote in the Comitia Centuria even after they
discover their error of voting too early or feel a little frustrated
and just forget about it or get distracted by other things. Secondly
the 10 days of casting ballots, especially in this month of the year
seems a little lengthy. Now I asked last year about the voter turnout
and I was given a figure of more or less 20%. If it doesn't improve
this year perhaps the situation should be re-evaluated again.


Also, a lot of the instructions on this and many issues are perhaps
written in legal - like jargon. This level is just fine for many of
us who are older, familiar with ancient Rome or versed in Latin but
for many newcomers, I could see where there could be some problems in
really understanding what is going on. Could some of our writings be
more simplified for the benefit of those people who are new and may
be afraid to ask? Some may not know yet what the meaning of lex,
Comitia Centuria, Comitia Plebis Tributa etc. actually mean.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18223 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed
or inaccurate voter code:

#1434

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted
previously to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18224 From: aerdensrw Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline--

I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, the possibility of voters
deciding not to bother voting again after they have already voted
once; being away on winter holidays; and just plain being confused at
the whole timing of things in the Comitia Centuria is a concern to
us.

Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something that at least
aporoaches legal language. I would prefer that the language being
simpler, myself. The first time I read that lex for the test
election, I was pretty flummoxed and had to reread it a couple of
times and confer with others to be sure I understood exactly what I
needed to do.

Renata Corva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18225 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: clarification
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Flavia Tullia,

<much snippage>
> 'Flippant manner'? Was Julilla's quite benign sounding comment
('you should get yourself a nice stolla') an official question to me
as a consular candidate? Was it a well-hidden campaign tactic to be
used against because I jokingly answered that if I wanted to take
> on a historically male postion that I should wear a toga?

I hadn't commented on this before, because I was pretty sure that
Diana Moravia Aurelia would have been quite certain that I was
teasing ever so gently; that certainly was what *I* thought I was
doing.

Certainly from a historical point of view I'd assume that most
subscribers to this list are aware that by the late republic women
didn't wear togas, so the comment was very much in the nature of an
inside joke. But I'm a terrible joke-teller, so I don't know whether
Diana laughed when she read it first. It's certainly not laughable
now, and perhaps we can move on to more enjoyable sartorial
discussions, such as throwing off the toga for the pileus and
synthesis of Saturnalia.

I for one, am dreadfully fun-deficient.

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18226 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Salve Renata Corva, who wrote in part

"Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something that at least approaches legal language."

I have to ask WHY?

The Romans were a plain and straightforward people. Simple to them was better.
The only people that benefit from a political or legal system written in LEGALIZE are the advocates ( lawyers).




----- Original Message -----
From: aerdensrw
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure


Salve, Quinte Lani Pauline--

I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, the possibility of voters
deciding not to bother voting again after they have already voted
once; being away on winter holidays; and just plain being confused at
the whole timing of things in the Comitia Centuria is a concern to
us.

Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something that at least
aporoaches legal language. I would prefer that the language being
simpler, myself. The first time I read that lex for the test
election, I was pretty flummoxed and had to reread it a couple of
times and confer with others to be sure I understood exactly what I
needed to do.

Renata Corva





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18227 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
The first one posted before I was finished writing



Salve Renata Corva, who wrote in part

"Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something that at least approaches legal language."

I have to ask WHY?

The Romans were a plain and straightforward people. Simple to them was better.
The only people who benefits from a political or legal system written in LEGALIZE are the advocates ( lawyers).

Example: From the Twelve Tables Number IV section 5.

A child born after ten months since the father's death will not be admitted into a legal inheritance.

Simple , straightforward and full of common sense.

We need more laws that can be read and understood by the general public, without the aid of lawyers, accountants or other "experts"

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18228 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Renata Corva writes:

> The first time I read that lex for the test
> election, I was pretty flummoxed and had to reread it a couple of
> times and confer with others to be sure I understood exactly what I
> needed to do.

There *is* an Election Handbook which can be found in the files
section (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/) with
the name election_handbook.htm that was written specifically to
address the matter you're discussing. Have you read it?

I recommend it to every voter.

Please, people, remember that this law was the result of considerable
joint effort on the part of many people -- Gaius Iulius Scaurus and
me among them -- to provide a system that is as close to the practices
of antiquity while still allowing for the reality of a world-wide
voting population.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18229 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Roman clothing for women: attn Julilla
Salve Julilla!

> I hadn't commented on this before, because I was pretty sure that
> Diana Moravia Aurelia would have been quite certain that I was
> teasing ever so gently; that certainly was what *I* thought I was
> doing.

<so I don't know whether Diana laughed when she read it first.

I did laugh! And I thought that you were teasing. I teased back but then changed my 'virtual attire'
accordingly :-)

I have a serious clothing question now and to me you are the person to ask.

My patron Goddess is Venus Erucina for a few reasons. Besides the fact that I believe that Venus is
a Goddess who is honored by everyone on this Earth (who doesn't want to be loved?) my family is from
the modern town in Sicily where the temple of Venus Erucina used to be. So in April as part of the
Roman Day that I am organizing we'll be doing a Vinalia Priora ritual where both myself and Circe
(who posted here) will be wearing red togas and making offering to Venus.

The question (finally!)
The reason why I don't like to wear a stola is quite simply because I look like a cow in one
(really). And at Roman Days most of ladies (but not all !!) were wearing stolas that looked very
peasant-ish. I've seen the exact same type rough wool with a cord tied around the waist worn by
ladies at Celtic reenactments and Viking reenactments. I have a lot of Roman movies on DVD and the
ladies are wearing clothing that is certainly flattering and I am assuming historially correct.
Although I don't look like the type, I can recreate any clothing that I see without a pattern. So
what film do you think best portrays a lady's clothing? I would like to make a proper lady's outfit
but and avoid the cow problem :-) Plus we'll be having one of those booths 'dress like a Roman and
have your photo taken' and so I would like the ladies to look more beautiful in Roman clothes rather
than less.

vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18230 From: Emilia Curia Finnica Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salve Diana Moravia Aventina Tribune Plebis,

Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the best of luck with
your coming endeavours.


>Ah thanks for the reminder Emilia :-)
>
>While I think that all 3 Plebeian candidates are fine ones, my vote
>will go to Emilia Curia and
>Marcus Calidius Gracchus since they are the ones who are actively
>seeking this office with
>enthusiasm!
>
>Vale,
>Diana


Vale bene,
--


Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18231 From: g_iulius_scaurus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Additional Links
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Given the exigencies of time zones, delayed flights, and the
possibility that I may have to delay my return by a day or so. I have
decided to post the links for Monday and Tuesday, as well as a
piaculum for premature fulfillment of my vow.

For Monday here's a link to "Roman Traction Systems":

http://www.humanist.de/rome/rts/

This fascinating article by Dr. Judith Weller surveys the development
of various systems of land transportation and their relationship to
the evolution of the Roman economy.

For Tuesday here's a link to "Oil Lamps in the Ancient World":

http://ancientlamps.tripod.com/ancients/1860.html

This site, created by Dr.Bryan Howard, provides a splendid
introduction with illustrations of one of the principal soures of
illumination in the Roman world.

In piaculum for prematurely fulfilling my vow, I offer up two sites:

"Studi Sociali Sulla Morte nel Mondo Romano [Social Studies Regarding
Death in the Roman World":

http://www.catelli.too.it/

This site, created by Adolfo Catelli, provides an excellent
introduction to Roman attitudes and practices with respect to death
and dying, including a bibliography. The site is in Italian, but can
also be viewed via Altavista's Babelfish machine translation facility
(with the usual caveats about machine translation) at
http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn.

"Festus Grammaticus: De la signification des mots":

http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/erudits/Festus/index.htm

This site offers a French translation of books I-XI of Sextus Pompeius
Festus' _De verborum significatione_, a significant source of
information on the vocabulary of the Religio Romana.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18232 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Attention Voters, very important information clarification
Salve Quinte Lani,

The Lex was written to simulate as near as possible the voting
practices of the old Republic. In the old Republic the voters would
gather in the forum in designated areas for their Century They would
then be called forward to vote a century at a time starting with a
Century drawn by lot from the 1st Class, then the remainder of the 1st
Class, the 2nd Class, and so on.

It was the Rogator's job not only to count the votes, but to ensure
that no one voted out of turn. For better or worse for the next few
days it's not just my problem, it's all of my fellow Rogator's
problem. Next year it will be someone elses problem, right Cordus? <G>

I've tried to explain it as simply as I can and tried to get the word
out so people who've voted out of turn have the option to revote at
the appropriate time if they so chose.

It would have helped if the schedule for voting in the Comitia
Centuria had been posted on the Cista as not everyone who votes
subscribes to this list, but everyone who votes goes to the Cista.
I'd strongly recommend that in the future as a lesson learned.

The portions of the Lex Fabia concerning voting for multiple
candidates and the alternative vote counting method work very
efficiently and should be retained. Next year's Consuls may want to
consider amending the Lex Fabia to eliminate the staggered voting as
being unworkable as Nova Roma is currently organized. Alternately,
they might decided that voter education on the voting procedures would
be a better course and retain the Lex Fabia as is and see what happens
at next year's elections.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus







--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Quinte, these election regulations were drawn up and voted on so I do
> not consider them your problem.
> I just wish to point out to all concerned that I have the heaby
> jeabies about this staggered voting. First of all, in the Macro world
> it is the festive season and many people are going to be tied up,
> occupied, travelling in this time frame or have their minds on many
> other things. They jump to vote on the first few days and may forget
> about coming back to vote in the Comitia Centuria even after they
> discover their error of voting too early or feel a little frustrated
> and just forget about it or get distracted by other things. Secondly
> the 10 days of casting ballots, especially in this month of the year
> seems a little lengthy. Now I asked last year about the voter turnout
> and I was given a figure of more or less 20%. If it doesn't improve
> this year perhaps the situation should be re-evaluated again.
>
>
> Also, a lot of the instructions on this and many issues are perhaps
> written in legal - like jargon. This level is just fine for many of
> us who are older, familiar with ancient Rome or versed in Latin but
> for many newcomers, I could see where there could be some problems in
> really understanding what is going on. Could some of our writings be
> more simplified for the benefit of those people who are new and may
> be afraid to ask? Some may not know yet what the meaning of lex,
> Comitia Centuria, Comitia Plebis Tributa etc. actually mean.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18233 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Renata Corva Cantrix,
Curator Ti. Galerius Paulinus, Q. Lanius Paulinus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're all well; I'm well.

The sequential voting may be confusing, and the
argument that it may put off voters is a very
reasonable one - it would be interesting if after thsi
election the Rogators could count up the number of
people who voted too early and didn't come back.

In defence of staggered voting, I would point out that
it is an important part of the meritocratic weighting
of the centuries: as in history, this system gives
those in higher centuries the honour of going first
and of being able to indicate the way the vote is
going.

Perhaps a way to lessen confusion would be if the
presiding magistrate were to say not 'Voting will
start on such a date, but most people can't vote
until...' but something like 'voting will being on
such a date, though certain people will be able to
vote before then - here's how to find out if you're
one of those people.' Indeed, perhaps some mechanism
could be made available to the presiding magistrate
allowing him to e-mail privately all those who can
vote early, so those people know when to vote but
everyone else doesn't need to be confused by being
told the details.

At the last, though, I must say I'm not entirely easy
with the basic assumption here that ordinary people
are easily confused and don't know what's going on.
It's all very well for the four of us, who do know how
the system works, to sit around saying 'no one
understands it' - I'm not inclined to believe that
until someone actually comes forward to say he or she
doesn't understand it. If any such person doesn't
want to say so in public, he or she is welcome to
contact me privately (though I admit I'm not always
the best person to give simple explanations).

I'd like also to comment on this side of the
discussion. Curator Galerius Paulinus wrote:

> "Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something
> that at least approaches legal language."
>
> I have to ask WHY?
>
> The Romans were a plain and straightforward people.
> Simple to them was better.
> The only people that benefit from a political or
> legal system written in LEGALIZE are the advocates (
> lawyers).

The Romans were not a simple people, and that comment
does them a great disservice. They were pioneers of
the rule of law, and law was the basis of their entire
system of education. The reason Romans knew the law
wasn't that the law was dumbed down to their level,
but that they educated themselves up to the level of
the law.

The example "A child born after ten months since the
father's death will not be admitted into a legal
inheritance" is simple because it deals with a simple
matter. Those passages of the lex Fabia which are new
(I can't speak for those passages we took directly
from the lex Cornelia Octavia) are, in my view, as
simple as they can be while still saying what they
need to say. They contain no special legal technical
terms which are not clearly explained. If, however,
you can come up with a clearer text explaining the
same system then I shall change my view and urge the
consuls to amend the law to replace our version with
yours.

If I seem dismissive, it is not because I think it's
okay for things to be written badly. Of course it's
not, and things which are badly written should be
criticized. But I sometimes wonder whether the
criticism 'it's bad because it's written in
complicated language' isn't a poorly disguised version
of the criticism 'it's bad because it's complicated',
which is an argument so grossly insulting to the
intelligence of the nation that I have neither time
nor tolerance for it.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18234 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Additional Links
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gfr@w...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.
>
> For Tuesday here's a link to "Oil Lamps in the Ancient World":
>
> http://ancientlamps.tripod.com/ancients/1860.html
>
> This site, created by Dr.Bryan Howard, provides a splendid
> introduction with illustrations of one of the principal soures of
> illumination in the Roman world.

May I offer an update to Dr Howard's excellent site? I've bought
several of his lamps ($8 US each) and he now has his own domain:
www.ancientlamps.com

JSM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18235 From: Julilla Sempronia Magna Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Roman clothing for women: attn Julilla
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Julilla!

...et salve Diana!

> I did laugh! And I thought that you were teasing. I teased back but
then changed my 'virtual attire'
> accordingly :-)

Good, I love to laugh :-D
>
> I have a serious clothing question now and to me you are the person
to ask.
(snipped)
> The reason why I don't like to wear a stola is quite simply because
I look like a cow in one (really). And at Roman Days most of ladies
(but not all !!) were wearing stolas that looked very peasant-ish.
I've seen the exact same type rough wool with a cord tied around the
waist worn by ladies at Celtic reenactments and Viking reenactments.
I have a lot of Roman movies on DVD and the ladies are wearing
clothing that is certainly flattering and I am assuming historially
correct. Although I don't look like the type, I can recreate any
clothing that I see without a pattern. So what film do you think best
portrays a lady's clothing? I would like to make a proper lady's
outfit but and avoid the cow problem :-) Plus we'll be having one of
those booths 'dress like a Roman and have your photo taken' and so I
would like the ladies to look more beautiful in Roman clothes rather
than less.

O dear, I feel your pain, mainly because that's exactly how I feel,
and my favourite stola makes me feel even more so, because I blouse
the extra length over my hips (see the picture at the bottom of my
profile: http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=1621)

I'd be happy to work up some specific recommendations for you on
clothing, but here are some general comments:

* make your tunicae and pallae out of light fabric that drapes well.
The fabric I used is a synthetic rayon blend which looks like silk,
quite an inexpensive alternative. Of course, silk was wildly
expensive, but it WAS available in late Republican times!

* make your garments about 5-8 inches (13-20 cm) wider than your hips.

* belt them right under the bust instead of around the natural waist.
It's less "potato sacky"

oooh, movies. Well, most of the current ones that come to mind take
wild liberties with women's costumes. Try finding "A Funny Thing
Happened on the Way to the Forum," if you don't already have it;
other than the fact that too many people are dressed in white, it's
pretty faithful to historical fashion, and great fun too.

I'll be more than happy to work up more information for you if you
like!

te cura,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| Candidata, Tribuna Plebis
http://www.villaivlilla.com/tribunaplebis.htm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18236 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Salvete;
I'm one of those who rushed in to vote, but be assured once it was
explained that I only have to return to vote in the Comitia
Centuriata, that I will.
valete Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica
>
> The sequential voting may be confusing, and the
> argument that it may put off voters is a very
>



reasonable one - it would be interesting if after thsi
> election the Rogators could count up the number of
> people who voted too early and didn't come back.
>
>
>
> Perhaps a way to lessen confusion would be if the
> presiding magistrate were to say not 'Voting will
> start on such a date, but most people can't vote
> until...' but something like 'voting will being on
> such a date, though certain people will be able to
> vote before then - here's how to find out if you're
> one of those people.' Indeed, perhaps some mechanism
> could be made available to the presiding magistrate
> allowing him to e-mail privately all those who can
> vote early, so those people know when to vote but
> everyone else doesn't need to be confused by being
> told the details.
>
> At the last, though, I must say I'm not entirely easy
> with the basic assumption here that ordinary people
> are easily confused and don't know what's going on.
> It's all very well for the four of us, who do know how
> the system works, to sit around saying 'no one
> understands it' - I'm not inclined to believe that
> until someone actually comes forward to say he or she
> doesn't understand it. If any such person doesn't
> want to say so in public, he or she is welcome to
> contact me privately (though I admit I'm not always
> the best person to give simple explanations).
>
> I'd like also to comment on this side of the
> discussion. Curator Galerius Paulinus wrote:
>
> > "Unfortunately, laws have to be written in something
> > that at least approaches legal language."
> >
> > I have to ask WHY?
> >
> > The Romans were a plain and straightforward people.
> > Simple to them was better.
> > The only people that benefit from a political or
> > legal system written in LEGALIZE are the advocates (
> > lawyers).
>
> The Romans were not a simple people, and that comment
> does them a great disservice. They were pioneers of
> the rule of law, and law was the basis of their entire
> system of education. The reason Romans knew the law
> wasn't that the law was dumbed down to their level,
> but that they educated themselves up to the level of
> the law.
>
> The example "A child born after ten months since the
> father's death will not be admitted into a legal
> inheritance" is simple because it deals with a simple
> matter. Those passages of the lex Fabia which are new
> (I can't speak for those passages we took directly
> from the lex Cornelia Octavia) are, in my view, as
> simple as they can be while still saying what they
> need to say. They contain no special legal technical
> terms which are not clearly explained. If, however,
> you can come up with a clearer text explaining the
> same system then I shall change my view and urge the
> consuls to amend the law to replace our version with
> yours.
>
> If I seem dismissive, it is not because I think it's
> okay for things to be written badly. Of course it's
> not, and things which are badly written should be
> criticized. But I sometimes wonder whether the
> criticism 'it's bad because it's written in
> complicated language' isn't a poorly disguised version
> of the criticism 'it's bad because it's complicated',
> which is an argument so grossly insulting to the
> intelligence of the nation that I have neither time
> nor tolerance for it.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry!
Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be.
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18237 From: Scriboni89@aol.com Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: FREEDOM FOR IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Salve,
This is kind of off topic but.......WE GOT HIM!!! FREEDOM FOR THE IRAQI
PEOPLE!!!!!!!
BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Dec. 14) -- American forces captured a bearded Saddam Hussein
as he hid in a dirt hole under a farmhouse near his hometown of Tikrit, ending
one of the most intensive manhunts in history. The arrest, eight months after
the fall of Baghdad, was carried out without a shot fired and was a huge
victory for U.S. forces.


AP
Saddam in U.S. custody


''Ladies and gentlemen, we got him,'' U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer told
a news conference Sunday. ''The tyrant is a prisoner.''
Saddam was captured Saturday at 8:30 p.m. in a specially prepared ''spider
hole'' in a house in Adwar, a town 10 miles from Tikrit, said Lt Col. Ricardo
Sanchez, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq. The hole was six to eight feet
deep, with enough space to lie down, camouflaged with bricks and dirt and
supplied with an air vent to allow long periods inside.
A U.S. defense official said Saddam admitted his identity when captured.
Sanchez, who saw Saddam overnight, said the deposed leader ''has been
cooperative and is talkative.'' He described Saddam as ''a tired man, a man resigned
to his fate.''
In the capital, radio stations played celebratory music, residents fired
small arms in the air in celebration and passengers on buses and trucks shouted,
''They got Saddam! They got Saddam!''
Eager to give Iraqis evidence that the elusive former dictator had indeed
been captured, Sanchez played a video at the news conference showing the
66-year-old Saddam in custody. Saddam, with a thick, graying beard and bushy,
disheveled hair, was seen as doctor examined him, holding his mouth open with a tongue
depressor, apparently to get a DNA sample. Saddam touched his beard during
the exam. Then the video showed a picture of Saddam after he was shaved,
juxtaposed for comparison with an old photo of the Iraqi leader while in power.
Iraqi journalists in the audience stood, pointed and shouted ''Death to
Saddam!'' and ''Down with Saddam!''
Though the raid occurred Saturday afternoon American time, U.S. officials
went to great length to keep it quiet until medical tests and DNA testing
confirmed Saddam's identity.
Washington hopes Saddam's capture will help break the organized Iraq
resistance that has killed more than 190 American soldiers since President Bush
declared major combat over on May 1 and has set back efforts at reconstruction. U.S.
commanders have said that while in hiding Saddam played some role in the
guerrilla campaign blamed on his followers.
In the latest attack, a suspected suicide bomber detonated explosives in a
car outside a police station Sunday morning west of Baghdad, killing at least 17
people and wounding 33 more, the U.S. military said.
Saddam was being held at an undisclosed location, and U.S. authorities have
not yet determined whether to hand him over to the Iraqis for trial, Sanchez
said. Iraqi officials want him to stand trial before a war crimes tribunal
created last week.
''This success brings closure to the Iraqi people,'' Sanchez said.
''Saddam Hussein will never return to a position of power from which he can
punish, terrorize, intimidate and exploit the Iraqi people as the did for more
than 35 years.''
Ahmad Chalabi, a member of Iraq's Governing Council, said Sunday that Saddam
will be put on trial.
''Saddam will stand a public trial so that the Iraqi people will know his
crimes,'' said Chalabi told Al-Iraqiya, a Pentagon-funded TV station.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair hailed the capture, saying the deposed
leader ''has gone from power, he won't be coming back.''
''Where his rule meant terror and division and brutality, let his capture
bring about unity, reconciliation and peace between all the people of Iraq,''
Blair said in brief comments at his 10 Downing St. office.
In Tikrit, U.S. soldiers lit up cigars after hearing the news of Saddam's
capture.
Some 600 troops from the 4th Infantry Division along with Special Forces
captured Saddam, the U.S. military said. There were no shots fired or injuries in
the raid, called ''Operation Red Dawn,'' Sanchez said.
Two men ''affiliated with Saddam Hussein'' were detained with him, and
soldiers confiscated two Kalashnikov rifles, a pistol, a taxi and $750,000 in $100
bills, Sanchez said. The two men were ''fairly insignificant'' regime figures,
a U.S. defense official said.
Celebratory gunfire erupted in the capital, and shop owners closed their
doors, fearful that the shooting would make the streets unsafe.
''I'm very happy for the Iraqi people. Life is going to be safer now,'' said
35-year-old Yehya Hassan, a resident of Baghdad. ''Now we can start a new
beginning.''
Earlier in the day, rumors of the capture sent people streaming into the
streets of Kirkuk, a northern Iraqi city, firing guns in the air in celebration.
''We are celebrating like it's a wedding,'' said Kirkuk resident Mustapha
Sheriff. ''We are finally rid of that criminal.''
''This is the joy of a lifetime,'' said Ali Al-Bashiri, another resident. ''I
am speaking on behalf of all the people that suffered under his rule.''
Despite the celebration throughout Baghdad, many residents were skeptical.
''I heard the news, but I'll believe it when I see it,'' said Mohaned
al-Hasaji, 33. ''They need to show us that they really have him.''
Ayet Bassem, 24, walked out of a shop with her 6-year-old son
''Things will be better for my son,'' she said. ''Everyone says everything
will be better when Saddam is caught. My son now has a future.''
After invading Iraq on March 20 and setting up their headquarters in Saddam's
sprawling Republican Palace compound in Baghdad, U.S. troops launched a
massive manhunt for the fugitive leader, placing a $25 million bounty on his head
and sending thousands of soldiers to search for him.
Saddam was one of the most-wanted fugitives in the world, along with Osama
bin Laden, the leader of the al-Qaida terrorist network who hasn't been caught
despite a manhunt since November 2001, when the Taliban regime was overthrown
in Afghanistan.
Saddam proved elusive during the war, when at least two dramatic military
strikes came up empty in their efforts to assassinate him. Since then, he has
appeared in both video and audio tapes. U.S. officials named him No. 1 on their
list of 55 most-wanted Iraqis, the lead card in a special deck of most-wanted
cards.
Saddam's sons Qusai and Odai - each with a $15 million bounty on their heads
- were killed July 22 in a four-hour gunbattle with U.S. troops in a hideout
in the northern city of Mosul. The bounties were paid out to the man who owned
the house where they were killed, residents said.
Adnan Pachachi, member of Iraq's U.S.-appointed Governing Council, said
Saddam's capture will bring stability to Iraq.
''The state of fear, intelligence and oppression is gone forever,'' Pachachi
said. ''The Iraqi people are very happy and we look forward to a future of
national reconciliation between Iraqis in order to build the new and free Iraq,
an Iraq of equality.''


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18238 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Comitia Centuriata: Phase 2 begins
Salvete,

The second phase of voting for Censor, Consuls, and Praetors, in the
Comitia Centuriata has begun.

At this time all civis who are registered in the 1st Class Centuries
are now eligible to vote. The 1st Class Centuries are Centuries 1
thru 15. If you are in Century 1 thru 15 and have previously cast
your vote, you will need to go to the Cista and vote again in order
for your vote to count towards the election results. Voters in
Century 4 that have voted already do not need to vote again.

If, like myself, you are in century 16 or higher, you will need to
wait until Dec. 17, 2003 at 1801 Rome Time to cast your ballot, or
recast your ballot if you have voted before that time.

You do not have to revote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa and/or the
Comitia Populi Tributa.

I thank you for your patience and apologize if I'm starting to sound
like your mother nagging you to wear a hat because it's cold out.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18239 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Quiritibus SPD

The period in which only centuria IV could vote passed a little over an
hour ago. The centuria praerogativa has voted as follows.

Censor: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Consul: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and Diana Moravia Aventina
Praetor: A 3-way tie

Lex Labiena de Iure Civium: Yes
Lex Labiena de Gentibus: Yes
Lex Fabia Labiena de Iure Augurum: Yes
Lex Labiena de Obnuntiatione: Yes

From now until Dec 17, 18:01 Rome time, all citizens of the first class
may vote (including members of centuria IV who have not yet voted).
According to the last note I received from the censores, the first class
contains centuriae I through XIV (centuries ONE through FOURTEEN).

If you are uncertain which centuria you are in, go to
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes and click on the number of cives
in your gens (the third column). This will show you a list of the
people in your gens. (Patres and matres familias can skip this step by
clicking on their name in the second column.)

Click on your name to reach your personal information page. Once there,
you should see a row that reads something like "Century: 51 (35 pts)".
The first number is your centuria. The second is the number of century
points you have.

Remember that everyone may vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa and all
plebeians may vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa at this time. Only the
Comitia Centuriata uses a staggered method of voting.

Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18240 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Comitia Centuriata: Phase 2 begins (minor correction)
Salvete,

Correction: The 1st Class consists of Centuries 1 thru 14.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@a...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> The second phase of voting for Censor, Consuls, and Praetors, in the
> Comitia Centuriata has begun.
>
> At this time all civis who are registered in the 1st Class Centuries
> are now eligible to vote. The 1st Class Centuries are Centuries 1
> thru 15. If you are in Century 1 thru 15 and have previously cast
> your vote, you will need to go to the Cista and vote again in order
> for your vote to count towards the election results. Voters in
> Century 4 that have voted already do not need to vote again.
>
> If, like myself, you are in century 16 or higher, you will need to
> wait until Dec. 17, 2003 at 1801 Rome Time to cast your ballot, or
> recast your ballot if you have voted before that time.
>
> You do not have to revote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa and/or the
> Comitia Populi Tributa.
>
> I thank you for your patience and apologize if I'm starting to sound
> like your mother nagging you to wear a hat because it's cold out.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> Rogator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18241 From: caesarspassion Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: SENATE QUESTION
I have another question about the anchient Roman Senate. Suppose
someone wanted to speak in the senate that was not a senator would
they be allowed too? Also if they would have been allowed to how
would they go about doing it?

Calpurnia Velia Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18242 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: SENATE QUESTION
Calpurnia Velia Caesar writes:

> I have another question about the anchient Roman Senate. Suppose
> someone wanted to speak in the senate that was not a senator would
> they be allowed too?

Not normally. Exceptions were made sometimes, for example in
the case of Pompei Magnus, who was not a Senator but was allowed
to sit in and address the Senate more than once.

> Also if they would have been allowed to how
> would they go about doing it?

My guess would be that they stood in front of the assembled
Senate and spoke their address.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18243 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
A. Apollonius Cordus to Consul & Senator T. Labienus
Fortunatus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

May I ask for some clarification on this? I know it's
a little anorak-y, but I'm paying close attention to
this first proper run of the new system to see how it
operates.

When you say:

> The centuria praerogativa has voted as
> follows.
>
> Censor: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Consul: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and Diana Moravia
> Aventina
> Praetor: A 3-way tie

How have these results been calculated? Are these the
top one (for censor) or two (for consul) vote-winners
in the century, do they represent the entire selection
of votes cast, have these results been calculated by
AV, or are they something else I haven't thought of?

Naturally if it's impossible to answer this without
disclosing individual voters' votes then I shan't
press you any further. :)

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18244 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: SENATE QUESTION
A. Apollonius Cordus to Calpurnia Velia Caesar and all
citizens & peregrines, greetings.

Just to add a little to Aedile Marinus' answer:

> > I have another question about the anchient Roman
> Senate. Suppose
> > someone wanted to speak in the senate that was not
> a senator would
> > they be allowed too?
>
> Not normally. Exceptions were made sometimes, for
> example in
> the case of Pompei Magnus, who was not a Senator but
> was allowed
> to sit in and address the Senate more than once.

Also foreign ambassadors would usually present
themselves to the senate and make speeches there,
since the senate was traditionally responsible for
foreign policy. I'm not sure of the exact procedure,
but there are plenty of embassies in Livy so that's a
good place to start looking if they're what you're after.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18245 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
Salvete Aule Apolloni omnesque

> How have these results been calculated?

Well, there are two candidates for censor. One of them received more
votes than the other, so the centuria has voted for him. There are
three candidates for consul. Two of them tied, each receiving more
votes than the remaining candidate. All three candidates for praetor
received the same number of votes, so that's a tie. A majority of
voters within the centuria voted for each of the proposed leges. With
only one centuria being counted so far, there's not much else to report.

That said, Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum dictates that
the candidates ought to be listed in order of the number of votes they
received, with ties to be decided by lot. However, the rogatores simply
reported the number of votes each candidate received to me and I, not
having re-read the salient portion of the lex recently, passed those
results along to the list.

Please don't take that as me passing the buck to the rogatores. They're
a good team and we're all still getting used to the new way of doing things.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18246 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Question about Lex Labiena de Nominibus Mutandis
Salvete,

I'm sorry I didn't look more closely at these before voting but there
is a glaring error.

In the law being amended, I have to point out there is no section
IV.4. There *is* a section IV.B.4. This law we are voting on is not
amending anything in the Lex Cornelia et Maria de Mutandis Nominibus.

Below, it also says "All subsections under section IV.4 of Lex
Cornelia et Maria de Mutandis Nominibus are hereby repealed." Besides
the fact there is no section IV.4., there is nothng else in that
clause to amend except the sentence being replaced. Perhaps what is
meant is everything *after* the non-existent clause, more succinctly
phrased as everything in subsection IV.C. Under is a vague word in
this situation. In any case, it doesn't matter because the wrong
clause is referenced in the law we are voting on. The law will have
to be resubmitted next year by the new consuls, the text can not be
changed during voting.

Text of the current law is at the end of this message.

If I have missed something, which is quite possible, please let me
know but as it stands this law we are voting on will be invalid even
if it passes.

Vale,

Palladius



Lex Labiena de Nominibus Mutandis

I. Section IV.4 of Lex Cornelia et Maria de Mutandis Nominibus is
hereby amended to read:

The gender of the name is to be consistent; each part is to agree
with all others in gender.

II. All subsections under section IV.4 of Lex Cornelia et Maria de
Mutandis Nominibus are hereby repealed.


Lex Cornelia et Maria de Mutandis Nominibus
DEUTSCH | ENGLISH |

I. Introduction
A. This lex is set forth to define the procedures by which a citizen
may apply to add, alter, or substitute any portion of his or her
Roman name, and to state the guidelines by which such an application
may be judged. This is done in order to attain a measure of
conformity with ancient Roman naming conventions and tradition. Note
that this lex, and its procedures and guidelines, apply to changes
sought by citizens after the publication of this edictum, and do not
apply to citizens' existing names, although the information herein
will certainly be of use to new citizens choosing a Roman name.

B. This edict has no impact on chatroom handles, signatures to
private or casual e-mail messages, or any other alias that any
citizen may choose to use. Rather, 'Roman name' for the purposes of
this edict refers to the name used by the citizen in public oaths,
applications to sodalitates and in other official contexts; this
Roman name is the one recorded in the censorial album civium.

C. Note that the use of the male gender throughout this document is
done solely for clarity, and is not meant to imply any disparity
between the sexes before the law.

D. Also note that this document uses the word sex to describe the
physical sex of a person and the word gender to refer to linguistic
gender only.

E. It is not the intent of this edictum to discriminate against or to
make any judgment about homosexuality, transgenderedness, or any
other sexual identity. No such discrimination should be inferred from
any part of this document. Nor should it be used as a precedent for
any law, magisterial act, edictum, or other action that interferes
with the rights of any citizen on the basis of that citizen's sexual
identity.

F. The Edictum Censoriale de Mutandis Nominibus is hereby rescinded
in favor of this lex.

II. Definition of a Roman Name
A. A Roman name consists of a praenomen, nomen, (optionally)
cognomen, and (possibly) an agnomen, and, in rare cases, several
agnomina.

B. The praenomen is a citizen's given name, and is used to
distinguish between members of a particular gens. Since there are
very few historical praenomina, and since the praenomen's role is
almost entirely secondary, a citizen is almost never referred to by
praenomen alone.

C. The nomen identifies a citizen's gens. Since a change in the stem
of a citizen's nomen would necessitate a change in gens -- a case of
either adoptio or the founding of a new gens -- it is beyond the
scope of this edictum.

D. The cognomen was originally a nickname. It is used to further
identify members within a gens, who could easily be identically named
due to the paucity of praenomina. Over time, the cognomen became
inherited, and was used to identify specific family lines within a
single gens. Changes to adopt certain names as cognomina are
restricted, as set forth in paragraphs E and F below. Note that these
restrictions do not apply whatsoever to cognomina under which
citizens have already received citizenship.

E. An agnomen is an additional form of nickname that is commonly
bestowed upon a citizen by others, often to commemorate significant
accomplishments or important events in the citizen's life. While it
is possible for a citizen to add a new agnomen or change an existing
one by request, agnomina of distinction must be awarded by a senator,
curule magistrate, or pontifex in recognition of service to Nova
Roma. Official recognition of such awarded agnomina of distinction is
completed by the censors' entering the agnomina in the album civium.
Following each such entry by the censores, the latter will provide
the curator araneae with the full Roman name of the distinguished
citizen and an explanation of the circumstances and reasons
surrounding the award of the agnomen, that the curator araneae may
publish this information to the Nova Roma website as he sees fit.

F. Agnomina of distinction include, but are not limited to, the
following: Augur, Augustus, Felix, Invictus, Magnus, Maximus,
Optimus, Pius, Superbus, Victor. Note that these restrictions do not
apply whatsoever to agnomina under which citizens have already
received citizenship.

G. EXAMPLE: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Nepos would be Quintus of the
Metellus branch of gens Caecilia. His family would be referred to as
the Caecilii Metelli, in order to distinguish them from the other
families within gens Caecilia. His agnomen, Nepos, distinguishes him
from any other Quintus of the Caecilii Metelli. As nepos means
grandson, it also most likely distinguishes him as the third in a
line of like-named people.

III. Procedures
A. A citizen wishing to change his name shall first contact his
paterfamilias and present his reasons for desiring a name change, as
well as the desired name. The paterfamilias will in turn contact the
censores should he approve of the name change, or should he find that
he requires help in determining whether or not to approve the change.

B. Patresfamiliae are instructed to work cooperatively with members
of their gens who desire to change their names in order to help them
conform to the letter and spirit of this document.

C. Should a paterfamilias disapprove of a citizen's desired name
change, refusing to present it to the censores, said citizen may
appeal to the censores within ninety (90) days of the refusal.

D. A paterfamilias who wishes to change his name shall apply to the
censores directly.

E. Should an applicant fail to obtain a name change from the
censores, he may, within ninety (90) days of the refusal, appeal to a
consul or praetor to bring the matter before the people through a
vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa.

1. Note that such an action requires the citizen who desires the
change to temporarily waive his rights of confidentiality as defined
in Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus, in order that evidence for and
against the application may be presented to the populace.

2. Also note that the decision to convene the Comitia Populi Tributa,
along with the schedule for doing so, is the purview of the consules
and praetores, and is therefore beyond the scope of this edict.

IV. Guidelines
A. An application for a name change is confidential. The requested
name, along with any and all evidence presented with it, is
considered confidential information as covered by the Lex Cornelia de
Privatis Rebus. Censores, patresfamiliae, and anyone called to
provide testimony by any party in the procedure are not to divulge
any information applicable to the name change to anyone without the
applicant's written permission, except as directed by this edict.
Such exceptions include the following:

1. A paterfamilias providing relevant information upon referring a
request for a new name to the censores.

2. A paterfamilias or other citizen providing relevant information
upon a censor, consul, or praetor's request, as in the case of an
appeal of a denied application.

3. A citizen presenting evidence before the Comitia Populi Tributa in
the case of an appeal to those comitia.

B. The guiding principle in considering name changes is to be
conformity with ancient Roman tradition.

1. New praenomina should be historically attested ones.

2. As previously stated, agnomina of distinction (Maximus, Felix, et
cetera) are not to be granted to citizens on request, but can be
awarded to any citizen by any senator, curule magistrate, or pontifex
in recognition of any special service to the Republic. It is up to
the patresfamiliae and censores to determine what is and is not an
agnomen of distinction on a case-by-case basis.

3. Cognomina and agnomina can be new coinages, but must be conducive
to Latin declension, and must have a clear meaning -- both
semantically and in specific relation to the citizen requesting the
added or changed name.

4. The gender of the name is to be consistent. Each part is to agree
with all others in gender, and with the sex of the citizen requesting
the name change.

C. A citizen who wishes to change the gender of his name counter to
that dictated by his sex must present, in support of his application,
proof of acceptance of the contrary sex by an authority of a
macronation, state, or municipality. In other words, if the applicant
is physically a man and has a form of macronational or municipal
identification listing his sex as female, or is officially recognized
as a woman in his country of macronational citizenship, then he may
use a feminine name in Nova Roma.

1. An exception to this rule is allowed in the case of transsexual
citizens who are discussing surgical sex alteration with a health
care provider or undergoing other medical and psychological treatment
in preparation for such an operation. In these instances,
documentation pertaining to health care provider(s) may be required
of the applicant.

2. Post-operative transsexual citizens shall be named according to
their current sex.

3. Hermaphrodites shall be named according to the sex in which they
are recognized by their country of macronational citizenship.

Passed by Comitia Populi Tributa, Yes-23; No-12;

20 May MMDCCLIV

TABVLARIVM

mog
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18247 From: George Metz Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Ace of Spades Trumped - We Got Him !
The Ace of Spades has been Trumped !

Saddam Husayn Captured !

See the Most Wanted Iraqi Deck of Cards and those captured at
www.legionxxiv.org/iraqmostwanted


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18248 From: Fortunatus Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Labiena de Nominibus Mutandis
Salve Deci Iuni omnesque

> I'm sorry I didn't look more closely at these before voting but there
> is a glaring error.

Unfortunately, you're right. Thanks to a typo, I managed to drop the B
from IV.B.4. How unfortunate!

> The law will have to be resubmitted next year by the new consuls, the
> text can not be changed during voting.

Again, you're right. I'll just have to lobby next year's consules to
enact this lex with the B in its proper place.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Use every man after his desert, and who shall escape whipping? Use
them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more
merit is in your bounty."
-Shakespeare
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18249 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Re: Advice on Voting
very well said, senator! I whole-heartedly agree!
--- drusus@...
<drusus@...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I have read a number of endorsements lately, an I
have to say I'm rather
> disappointed in some in the reasons we have been
advised to vote for or
> against a candidate. I Have seen many endorsements
based on personality.
> That would be fine if we were holding an election
for Miss Congeniality,
> but I haven't seen that "office" listed among those
being contested.
> Attendance at some event or another, the number of
hands shaken, or the
> number of babies kissed is NOT a qualification for
Consul, for Praetor,
> or for any other position of leadership. You should
be voting for the
> best qualified candidate even if it's someone whom
you personally dislike.
>
> Even more disturbing I have seen endorsements that
hinted at geographic
> reasons to vote for a candidate. We are ALL Romans.
Voting for someone
> simply because they happen to reside in the same
Macronation, the same
> Continent, or any other geographical criteria is as
shallow and bigoted
> as voting for someone because of the color of their
skin. Don't fall
> into that trap, if we adopt an "Us against Them"
mentality then Nova
> Roma will not endure as a united nation, it will
split into regional
> nations that spend as much time hurling insults at
each other as doing
> anything constructive.
>
> When you cast your ballot you should only consider
real qualifications,
> things like experience, knowledge, and where the
candidate wants to lead
> Nova Roma, not some of the trivial matters that have
been raised as
> reasons for an endorsement.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Senator
>
>
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18250 From: Lucius Equitius Date: 2003-12-14
Subject: Cincinnatus Augur, former Censor, endorses Q.Fabius Maximus for Cen
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus SPD

I do indeed concur with the following statement.

With a complete understanding of the importance of the position of
censor in Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma and what is required of any
candidate for that office, we the undersigned former censors, with a
total of over seven years of service as censors, do hereby endorse
Quintus Fabius Maximus as the most suitable candidate present for censor
in this election. We urge all citizens to cast their votes for him.

Since joining Nova Roma in 1998, Quintus Fabius has worked his way up
the cursus honorum and has served as scribe, legatus, quaestor, curule
aedile, praetor, consul, proconsul and pontifex. In 1999 he and his gens
were elevated to patrician status. In every position he has shown rare
dedication to Nova Roma and viewed each office with the eyes of one
dedicated to reviving the Religio Romana and the Mos Maiorum.

Quintus Fabius is one of only a few citizens who have what can truly be
called a thorough Roman outlook on life. He lives and breathes Rome. The
office of censor is the most Roman of offices, and oversees new citizen
applications, new senators, the issuance of notae and the public
morality.

It is an office that mostly must be performed primarily by the
officeholder with a small staff, not by someone who will appoint a large
staff to perform the work for him. This two year office needs someone
that is here for the long-term, someone with the time, ability and
desire to serve Nova Roma. Quintus Fabius has shown he is willing to
devote many hours to Nova Roma and in this election campaign has
defended himself admirably on the main list.

Unlike others, he does not let others speak for him but speaks for himself. Censor requires such strength of character, as Quintus Fabius Maximus possesses.

In addition, I found it troubling that Paterfamilias Q Fabius Maximus
was challenged by his own gens member.

Citizens, we urge you to elect Quintus Fabius Maximus to the office of censor as
by far the most fitting person for this office.

Valete,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Censor 2001-2002
Caius Flavius Diocletianus, outgoing Censor
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus, Censor 1998-1999
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Censor 2000-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18251 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salve Gnaeus Salix,

Cordus brought up the 2 laws above.
I've stated before that I do not like any of the punishment laws and will not file charges against
anyone no matter what they say about me publicly. I also will not file counter charges against
anyone in retaliation. That said I am the perfect target for those who don't have the mental
fortitude to discuss/argue publicly or privately and in that way settle differences.

PARS QVARTA: DE IVDICIO
X. Once a tribunal has been appointed, the praetor shall inform the iudices of the formula that they
shall apply. The praetor shall decide if the trial is going to be conducted under the public
scrutiny or, should the dignitas of innocents be at stake, declare a secret summary and move the
trial away from public scrutiny.

Does the above sentence mean that even if a citizen is threatened by another citizens offlist that
charges will be brought against them, the citizenship cannot know?

For example, if a plaintiff (a Consular candidate) tells the defendant (by coincidence another
Consular) that he is filing a lawsuit against her and in the same email states that he suspects that
filing those charges would result in her not being able to be Consul. Shouldn't the citizenship be
informed about this rather than letting a candidate maintain a mild mannered persona publicly while
in the meantime he is trying to remove his competition from the election privately?

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18252 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
Salve Cordus

I am glad you are well, I have 6 inches of snow to shovel later. (Grin)

Cordus said "The Romans were not a simple people, and that comment does them a great disservice. They were pioneers of the rule of law, and law was the basis of their entire system of education. The reason Romans knew the law wasn't that the law was dumb down to their level, but that they educated themselves up to the level of the law."

TGP Nothing is my post was about the dumbing down of a lex just the need or at least the desire to have them written in plain, clear and unambiguous English, Latin, Spanish, German, etc

In his "Principles of Roman Law" Fritz Schulz has an entire chapter on "simplicity" as it was practiced by the Romans in their laws.

He writes

"...the facts remain however ;an essential characteristic of Roman law has been ascertained. Simplicity, not multiplicity and love of variations; simple uncomplicated forms; limitation to a few clearly recognizable themes-
these are indeed Roman principles. This is (what) was aimed at and for the most part attained by the republican and classical eras ."

"In conclusion a passing glance at Roman legal terminology as the expression of Roman striving after simplicity and clarity. The style of Roman laws passed by the people in our period originated at a time when a timid legal science was convinced that unambiguous expression of thought could only be attained through the medium of pedantic, circumstantial phrasing. A different legal phraseology would have been appropriate to the freer jurisprudence of the last period of the republic... This language- as may now be considered indisputable- is a special language, a scientific language which is basically opposed to the linguistic artificialities of the late republican and imperial times and which lays decisive stress on plainness, simplicity and clarity."

"In keeping with this is the peculiar vocabulary of the classical jurists. Not only do they exclude unusual, archaic ,ephemeral words and phrases; others which are customarily elsewhere, which indeed form a part of good Latin, are avoided by them entirely or wherever possible on account of the tendency to economy even in language"

Yes I agree the Romans were one of the first to push for the "rule of law" but the laws they pushed were written with a desire for " plainness, simplicity and clarity".


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Tribune



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18253 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salve Diana who wrote

"For example, if a plaintiff (a Consular candidate) tells the defendant (by coincidence another
Consular) that he is filing a lawsuit against her and in the same email states that he suspects that
filing those charges would result in her not being able to be Consul. Shouldn't the citizenship be
informed about this rather than letting a candidate maintain a mild mannered persona publicly while
in the meantime he is trying to remove his competition from the election privately?"

Diana what the hell is going on here????


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 1:24 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis


Salve Gnaeus Salix,

Cordus brought up the 2 laws above.
I've stated before that I do not like any of the punishment laws and will not file charges against
anyone no matter what they say about me publicly. I also will not file counter charges against
anyone in retaliation. That said I am the perfect target for those who don't have the mental
fortitude to discuss/argue publicly or privately and in that way settle differences.

PARS QVARTA: DE IVDICIO
X. Once a tribunal has been appointed, the praetor shall inform the iudices of the formula that they
shall apply. The praetor shall decide if the trial is going to be conducted under the public
scrutiny or, should the dignitas of innocents be at stake, declare a secret summary and move the
trial away from public scrutiny.

Does the above sentence mean that even if a citizen is threatened by another citizens offlist that
charges will be brought against them, the citizenship cannot know?

For example, if a plaintiff (a Consular candidate) tells the defendant (by coincidence another
Consular) that he is filing a lawsuit against her and in the same email states that he suspects that
filing those charges would result in her not being able to be Consul. Shouldn't the citizenship be
informed about this rather than letting a candidate maintain a mild mannered persona publicly while
in the meantime he is trying to remove his competition from the election privately?

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18254 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salvete Quirites; et salve, D. Moravia.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> PARS QVARTA: DE IVDICIO
> X. Once a tribunal has been appointed, the praetor shall inform the
> iudices of the formula that they shall apply. The praetor shall
> decide if the trial is going to be conducted under the public
> scrutiny or, should the dignitas of innocents be at stake, declare
> a secret summary and move the trial away from public scrutiny.
>
> Does the above sentence mean that even if a citizen is threatened
> by another citizens offlist that charges will be brought against
> them, the citizenship cannot know?

No. It means that the praetores have the ability to conduct *the
trial* (not the whole process) out of the public eye (but in front of
many selected witnesses, like the Tribuni Plebis) if they think that
the dignity of an innocent person could be damaged by conducting a
public trial. Nothing stops the plaintiff, for example, from
announcing that a trial is going to take place for this or that
reason. It is the actual procedures of the trial (the declaration of
witnesses, the presentation of proofs) what could be placed under a
secret summary.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18255 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Good luck in the Plebeian elections
Salve, Consul... or I would say ´soon consular´... ´censor to be´...

Thanks a lot. Pleasures me most your words.

Millor Fernandes, brazilian journalist and humourist, has forged a
immortal phrase that delights me about the true roles of the Press:

´Journalism is opposition, otherwise it is a department store´

Like saying ´what is the utility of a government sided press?´

I will adapt and make a parodia of this phrase to the tribuneship,
and this will be my hymm on my magistracy, if I be elected.

´Tribuneship is opposition, otherwise it is role playing´

To agree with consuls, we will have their accensus. The Tribune must
be the disbalancing factor. What will be the utility of ´sided
tribunes´?


Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus
FAUSTUS FOR TRIBUNE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Arminius Faustus
> is a very fine gentkleman with a certain feeling for the poetic
side
> of all languages. He is one of the active interpretors of Nova Roma
> in which position he has worked very hard. As a Plebeian Aedile has
> has excelled and shown the way for future Plebeian Aediles. Even if
> we don't always agree, I value him very much. It is easy to wish
him
> Good Luck in the elections as I know that he will be a very active
> and competent Tribune!

>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Senior Consul et Senator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18256 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salve, Emilia, et omnia candidates for Plebeian Aedile.

The candidates for Plebeian Aediles will receive my support only
AFTER election.

Why?

Well... many things slipped throught the Pleborum fingers this year
(yes, this genitive plural has only good-intentions).

Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make Tribuneship, 2756 must
be the year of the Aedilship.

After my experience this year, I have on my head some ideas for
legislation for the Plebeian Aedilship, as well as the tribunes this
year and candidates for consulship and praetorship.

So, prepare yourselves to work even more than your predecessors. Ludi
Cerealia (12-19 apr) and Plebeian (4-18 nov) are surely question of
honour, but on ancient Rome the aediles made more, even more, far
more...

It is impressive how simple measures can turn the tides and make work
easier... or glorier.

The future aediles are the key.

Anyway, the aediles, whoever of the three, can count with me. But
sure we will need them much more for the reforms.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior et Sole Plebeian Aedile
(until more two weeks, two weeks...)


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Emilia Curia Finnica <e.curia@w...>
wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
>
> I want to say my sincere thanks to everybody who has lately
endorsed me:
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (my endorsement for Censor):
> Thank you too for a very nice time in Bologna and Rome. In fact,
all
> the pictures I used on my campaign site a from the same trip. :)
And,
> thank you for noticing all my previous engagements within your
> Cohors' and other things.
> ng a bit late sending my answers, my exams continue
> for an another week because of a renovation at the university. I
also
> played a role in the Christmas play in our department's Saturnalia -

> it's an old Finnish play, but we traditionally act and sing in
> ancient Latin, Greek and Arabic. :)
>
>
> Valete,
> --
>
>
> Emilia Curia Finnica
> Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18257 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Ace of Spades Trumped - We Got Him !
Salve,

Be careful... this ace of spades can be followed by the XVI ´Le
Mansion de Dieu´ on the very hand of the IV ´L'Empereur´...

Vale,
Faustus

PS. Off-topic, but I couldn´t resist!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "George Metz" <legionxxiv@c...>
wrote:
> The Ace of Spades has been Trumped !
>
> Saddam Husayn Captured !
>
> See the Most Wanted Iraqi Deck of Cards and those captured at
> www.legionxxiv.org/iraqmostwanted
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18258 From: m_iulius@virgilio.it Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
M IVL PERVSIANVS G IVL SCAVRO SPD

I thank you very much, Scauri, for your kind words.

It will be my pleasure to have you as a colleague and I can promise right
now that Nova Roma will see two Aediles working in harmony and for its sake,
the glory of Rome and of our beloved gens Iulia!
Also my vote is for you!

vale

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors FAC: http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18259 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: A response to S. Equitius Mercnurius Troianus from his cousin
F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to his cousin Servius Equitius
Mercurius Troianus. Salve.

Cousin, if you believe that "The gangup on [the Illustrious Senator
L. Sicinius] Drusus was directly political in nature" then you are
entitled to your opinion. However, I would like to repeat that the
exchanges that he and I had were purely personal in nature. He and
I, despite our provincial associations, disagree on quite a number
of topics. I do not question his love of history, traditions, Nova
Roma, or his unwavering support of his political associates but I do
question his demeanor, his occasional use of foul or inappropriate
language, his evasiveness on questions, and his penchant for
misdirection on certain topics.
The important thing to remember and consider, dear cousin, is that
if it appeared that a group of Nova Romans 'ganged up' on the
Illustrious Senator Drusus, it was less likely to have been a
concerted political action than it was a reaction among like minded
citizens concerning the nature of his posts.
During NR elections there are always going to be a certain amount of
name calling, insinuation, personal reactions, suppositions, et
cetera that is to be expected. Robert's Rules of Order cannot be
applied to our organization because we are more likely to go with
Cato & Cicero's rules and guidelines. Once the dust has settled,
the elections decided, and the oaths taken, I am sure things will
begin to settle down. Vale.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve friend Cordus
>
> I beg to differ: The gangup on Drusus was directly political in
nature, nor is it the only instance of bad behaviour.
>
> Personally, I subscribe to the old Roman ideal that the only
good Barbarian is a dead Barbarian. That not being practicable in a
virtual situation, I will use every other means at my disposal to
maintain civility on the Lists. If those whose job it is to
maintain good order continue to fail to do so, I will simply start
working my way through the various Leges and find the appropriate
means of bringing this about. Where we lack a proceedure, I will
invoke ancient Roman Law.
>
> While I would happily ram a copy of Roberts Rules of Order down
at least a dozen throats that I can think of, that too is not
practicable at this time. Resorting to the rules, leges,
proceedures and antecedents of Roman Law ARE available to me.
> Those who get a perverse kick out of bad behaviour, be
forewarned: I am about to give you a rude awakening over the coming
year.
>
> Vale,
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> "=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?="
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...>
> Sent: Dec 12, 2003 3:06 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] In re Flaviae Tulliae
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Ser. Equitius Mercurius<BR>
> Troianus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.<BR>
> <BR>
> >   I really must emend your comment: It has IMPROVED,<BR>
> > it is now what it should have been all along,<BR>
> > however there was a period of a week or two that<BR>
> > went from bad to heinous.<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >   So by all means applaud the current tone of<BR>
> > discussion, and hail, remember, and vote for those<BR>
> > who NEVER stooped to such low tactics, but don't<BR>
> > give me this selective memory routine...<BR>
> <BR>
> Since you're not specific, I can't be sure what period<BR>
> you have in mind. I think perhaps you mean the<BR>
> vigourous exchange of views about events some years<BR>
> ago among those who were closely involved in those<BR>
> events. If this is what you have in mind, then I agree<BR>
> that it was unpleasant, but I disagree that it was<BR>
> campaigning. Only one of the people at the centre of<BR>
> that argument had yet 'come out' as a candidate, and<BR>
> the issues were completely unrelated to the election.<BR>
> Perhaps it was made worse by the heightened tensions<BR>
> of election-time, but in my view it didn't constitute<BR>
> 'negative campaigning' because it didn't constitute<BR>
> campaigning of any kind.<BR>
> <BR>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18260 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Twelve Tables -- Table I, Law X
--- "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
<mjk@...> wrote:
> Salve Luci,
>
> Is that Rome, Eastern Standard, Rocky Mountain or
> Pacific time?
> standard time zones were not invented until the mid
> or late 19th
> century for the railroads from what I remember.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
I'm pretty sure that it would be Rome time, as that
is where the court would be sitting.

After all, it's from the Twelve Tables, which were
published about 450 BC. Eastern Time was hardly a
glimmer in anyone's eyes at the time. :)

Lucius Quintius Constantius


> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, politicog
> <politicog@y...> wrote:
> > Law X.
> >
> > The setting of the sun shall be the extreme limit
> of
> > time within which a judge must render his
> decision.
> >
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Lucius Quintius Constantius
> >
> > __________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18261 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XI
(Spurius Postumius Tubertus please update the provincial website accordingly - MBA)



EX DOMO PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE LACUUM MAGNORUM

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS XI


Structure of Lacus Magni Leadership


Effective ante diem XVIII Kal. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c. (December 15, 2003) I, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Propraetor of the Provincia Lacus Magni, issue this edict concerning the organization of Great Provincia of Lacus Magni, and the structure of its leadership:



I. This edict replaces Edictum Propraetoris IX.

II. The province shall be governed by the Propraetor, appointed by the senate with authority as indicated in the Constitution of Nova Roma. To assist the Propraetor in his duties of governing the province he shall appoint provincial magistrates. These magistrates shall be composed of the following:

i. Procurator. There shall be one procurator within the province who shall answer directly to the Propraetor, and shall have the following privileges, responsibilities, and honors:

a. To act in the name and authority of the Propraetor, with his foreknowledge, on issues that pertain to the governance of Lacus Magni. This includes, but is not limited to, contacting other magistrates within Nova Roma, citizens both within and without Lacus Magni, and other persons and entities in the fulfillment of the duties as a magistrate of Lacus Magni province.

b. To assist the Propraetor in the governance and organization of Lacus Magni in the organization of local groups, festivals, gatherings, and other projects as deemed worthy by the Propraetor.

c. Shall act as primary advisor and council to the Propraetor on matters pertaining to the governance of the province.

d. Shall be considered a 1st rank official within the province as defined by LEX FABIA CENTURIATA.



ii. Legate. There shall be one Legate for every region within Lacus Magni. A legate shall report directly to the Propraetor regarding the governance of their respective regions, and shall have the following privileges, responsibilities, and honors:

a. To govern their respective region, under the direction of the Propraetor, in accordance with the edicts and proclamations as set forth by the Propraetor.

b. To communicate with the citizens within their respective region in the name of, and with the authority of, the Propraetor.

c. Shall act as a councilor to the Propraetor, especially in matters that pertain directly to their respective region.

d. Shall be considered a 2nd rank official within the province as defined by LEX FABIA CENTURIATA.



iii. Scribae. There shall be as many scribes within Lacus Magni as deemed necessary by the Propraetor. Scribes shall be appointed by the Propraetor to assist any of the provincial magistrates in their duties within the province, and shall answer to the magistrate they are assigned to assist. Scribae shall be considered a 3rd rank official within the province as defined by LEX FABIA CENTURIATA.

iv. All other leadership rolls within the Province shall comprise a fourth rank of leadership that shall be created on a case by case basis to assist the Propraetor, or other magistrates, in the execution of their provincial duties. Examples of which would include, but not limited to, advisors on various issues, special project coordinators, etc. These positions shall be created by order of the Propraetor in the form of an edict, and shall be considered a 4th rank official within the province as defined by LEX FABIA CENTURIATA.

III. In accordance with the spirit of LEX VEDIA DE ASSIDUI ET CAPITE CENSI all provincial magistrates shall be Assidui before they are officially appointed to their post.

IV. The provincia will be divided into three Regio. Lacus Magni Regionis Orientalis will consist of Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia. Lacus Magni Regionis Occidentalis will consist of Indiana, and Illinois. Lacus Magni Regionis Septemtrionalis will consist of Michigan and Wisconsin.

V. The office of Retiarius shall be of Scribae rank and shall have the duty of administering a high quality, regularly updated, website for the province.

VI. The Propraetor shall appoint up to six provincial Lictors. Lictors shall have the ceremonial duty of preceding the Propraetor, and have the right to carry the fasces when exercising their duties as stipulated in LEX VEDIA APPARITORIA. A Lictor shall be considered a 4th rank official.

VII. All officials of the province must take an oath of office as defined in a separate Edict.



Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18262 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XII
(Spurius Postumius Tubertus please update the provincial website accordingly - MBA)





EX DOMO PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE LACUUM MAGNORUM
EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS XII


On the Organization of Oppidum and Municipium.



Effective ante diem XVIII Kal. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c. (December 15, 2003) I, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Propraetor of the Provincia Lacus Magni, issue this edict concerning the organization of Oppidum and Municipium within the Great Provincia of Lacus Magni:



I. The ordinary magistrate that shall oversee the creation and administration of Oppidum and Municipium (henceforth referred to as local groups) within Lacus Magni is the Propraetor as defined in LEX FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS, however, that ordinary jurisdiction is hereby delegated to the office of Procurator. The Procurator shall be the contact person between forming local groups and the Propraetor. All citizens interested in creating local groups shall work with the Procurator in meeting the necessary requirements as stated in LEX FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS and those additional requirements mandated within this Edict. The Procurator shall report the status of all local groups, and forming local groups, to the Propraetor on at least a quarterly basis.

II. The requirements for creating local groups is outlined in LEX FABIA DE OPPIDIS ET MUNICIPIIS. The following additional requirements, procedures and honors are issued by the Propraetor:

a. All citizens, including magistrates, of a local group must be Assidui for their number to count towards the status of the local group. At least 5 citizens for Oppidum and 35 citizens for Municipium.

b. All local group magistrates within the Great Provincia of Lacus Magni must take an oath upon assuming office. This oath, listed in a separate Edict, shall be administered in person by either the Propraetor, Procurator, or Legate of the region local group is located. It can also be posted on the Provincial e-mail list with the permission of the Propreator in lieu of a physical administration of the oath.

c. All local magistrates shall be considered 4th rank officials within the Great Province Lacus Magni.

III. Once a potential local group has completed all the requirements the Procurator, and Legate of the Region of the potential local group, shall review the material and make a recommendation of approval or denial to the Propraetor. The final decision to approve or deny the foedus, or charter, of a local group is solely at the discretion of the Propraetor.

IV. Once a local group is created they are henceforth required to submit a monthly report (a municipium need only submit a report on a quarterly basis) to their respective Legate. The Legate shall forward a copy of the report to the office of the Procurator who shall maintain the Provincial archives of local group reports. Reports shall contain the following:

a. Any changes to the number of citizens in the local group.

b. Citizenship status of the members of the local group, ie., Assidui, Capite Censi, and Socius.

c. Any change of leadership, including results of any local elections.

d. Any changes to the foedus.

e. Any edicts issued by a local magistrate.

f. List of activities performed during the reporting period.

g. List of planned activities for the next month (or quarter).

h. Any problems that have been address, or that might require assistance from a Provincial Magistrate.

i. Financial records of the local group

a) Income.

b) Expenses.

c) Expenditures.

d) Savings.

V. Any group that fails to submit a report will be contacted by their Legate who will remind them of the need for them to submit their report. If they fail to submit two consecutive reports their Legate shall issue a second warning. After the third missed report the Procurator shall contact the magistrates of the local group for a report of the status of the group. The local group will have ten days to get into compliance otherwise the foedus of the local group will be rescinded.

VI. If a problem occurs within a local group that problem should initially be addressed by the Legate of the Region the local group is located. The Legate shall inform the Procurator of any problems, and the outcome of said problem. If necessary the Procurator will call upon the Propraetor to intervene in any local problem not handled by a subordinate magistrate.



Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18263 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Re Clarification-To Servius Equitius
Flavius Galerius to Servius Equitius. Salve, cousin.

I'm afraid that I must slide a comment in here about this matter.
The original post by Flavia Tullia did question the dignity, piety,
gravity, and morality of the Honorable Diana Moravia. It insinuated
that she is a lady of the demimonde and questioned the
appropriateness of her behavior & dress at Roman Days. Most of
these issues could have been addressed off list since the topic was
more of a personal reproach than a public or political post.
If Flavia Tullia had questions about the Honorable Tribune's actions
in her official capacity and had been backed up by specific examples
of inappropriate actions that violated the laws, edicts, or
Constitution of the Republic, I would have given it enough credence
to have at least studied on the issues Flavia Tullia brought up.
As it was, it appeared to be an unsolicited personal attack on a
public official by an essentially unknown individual who has never
posted on the mainlist on any topic that I can recall in the last
two years. Now, cousin, that appears to me to be a purely political
smear tactic. Vale.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> Given the vilification and demonization that she had received
simply for voicing an opinion, followed by a Virtual Lynch Mob that
essentially tarred, feathered & ran her out of town on a rail, are
you really surprised?
>
> It speaks volumes in FAVOUR of Flavia Tullia that she was
willing to Post again on this site at all! It shows that her love
of Roma can overcome whatever treatment she has received. Everyone
who Posts regularly stumbles once in a while, everyone starts off as
a Newbie who has to learn the local culture and ways. I am still in
the process of learning, myself.
>
> Forgive, I ask you, and if you must respond then correct
the 'offender' gently and with understanding, preferably in Private.
>
> Valete
> ~ S E M Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flavia Lucilla Merula <k.a.wright@n...>
> Sent: Dec 13, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re Clarification
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Diana Moravia Aventina wrote<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >I do believe that you've sent me an apology that isn't really an
apology....<BR>
> ><BR>
> I have to say I totally agree.  I found her first post extremely
<BR>
> 'clever' in that it implied so much more than it actually said. It
gave <BR>
> the distinct impression that we are meant to read it and infer all
sorts <BR>
> of horrible things leaving the writer virtuously able to say at a
later <BR>
> date but I never said that, which is basically what's happened. 
The <BR>
> apology, to me, seems merely to have been used to remind of these
<BR>
> scurrilous things we were meant to infer from the original post
and I <BR>
> have to say I also found the implication that we're not suited to
a " <BR>
> literary style, developed in academia" rather patronising.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think posts like these say more about the character of the
poster than <BR>
> the person they're insulting and it may not be worth much but
you've <BR>
> certainly got my vote for consul.<BR>
> <BR>
> Flavia Lucilla<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
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> <BR>
> </tt>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18264 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Twelve Tables -- Table II, Law I
TABLE II.

Concerning judgments and thefts.

Law I.

When issue has been joined in the presence of the
judge, sureties and their substitutes for appearance
at the trial must be furnished on both sides. The
parties shall appear in person, unless prevented by
disease of a serious character; or where vows which
they have taken must be discharged to the Gods; or
where the proceedings are interrupted through their
absence on business for the State; or where a day has
been appointed by them to meet an alien.

------------------------------------------------------

Lucius Quintius Constantius


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18265 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XIII
(Spurius Postumius Tubertus please update the provincial website accordingly - MBA)



EX DOMO PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE LACUUM MAGNORUM

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS XIII

Effective ante diem XVIII Kal. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c. (December 15, 2003)


On the Oaths of Office


With the Imperium invested in me, by the Senate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Propraetor of the Great Province of Lacus Magni, issue this Edict concerning the oaths of office for all provincial positions and offices as defined in LEX FABIA CENTURIATA. This Edict shall be effective immediately.

I. The Procurator of Lacus Magni and every Legate of Lacus Magni shall take the following Oath:

a. I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.



As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.



I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.



I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.



I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of [Roman Name (mundane name)] to the best of my abilities.



On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Procurator/Legate and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.



II. All Scribae (and those who follow under the classification of 4th rank official) of the Great Province of Lacus Magni shall take the following Oath of office, except those excempt from taking oaths as defined by LEX FABIA DE CIVITATE MINORUM:



a. I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] , do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honour of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of [Title and name of Magistrate serving under] while I hold this office, except when such action would be illegal or unconstitutional.

I, [Roman Name (mundane name)], further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of [Name of Office] to the best of my abilities while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, [Roman Name (mundane name)], swear to give faithful service to my magistrate, and not to divulge any information discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of the Propraetor of Lacus Magni.

On my honor as a citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of [Name of Office] with all the privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.



III. All those classified as a provincial sacerdotes shall take the following Oath:
I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of the Religio Romana in Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the Roman Gods, the Religio Romana, the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] as a member of the Priesthood, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion. I swear to serve the Roman Gods to the best of my ability in both public and private life, and to pursue the Roman virtues as an integral part of my
Priesthood.

I, [Roman Name (mundane name)], swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, [Roman Name (mundane name)] further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of [Name of Priesthood] to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma and the Great Province of Lacus Magni, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of [name of priesthood] and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18266 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XIV
(Spurius Postumius Tubertus please update the provincial website accordingly - MBA)





EX DOMO PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE LACUUM MAGNORUM

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS XIV

Effective ante diem XVIII Kal. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c. (December 15, 2003)


On the Organization of the Religio Romana within Lacus Magni


With the Imperium invested in me, by the Senate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Propraetor of the Great Province of Lacus Magni, issue this Edict concerning the organization of the Religio Romana of Lacus Magni. This Edict shall be effective immediately.



I. In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, and my oath as a Propraetor I recognize that the Religio Romana is the official State Religion of Nova Roma, and the Great Province of Lacus Magni. To better assist me in my duties to administer the affairs of the Province I shall create the office of Flamen Primoris - Provincia Lacus Magni, or First Flamen of the Great Lakes Province.

II. The Flamen Primoris shall have jurisdiction over the Religio Romana within the Province of Lacus Magni, and shall answer to both myself (as Propraetor) and the Collegium Pontificum of Nova Roma. To the office of Propraetor in issues that relate to the administration of the Great Province of Lacus Magni, and to the Collegium Pontificum in matters dealing with the Religio Romana.

III. The Flamen Primoris can be removed from office by the Collegium Pontificum of Nova Roma if the Collegium deems the Flamen Primoris incapable of fulfilling the duties, and responsibilities of said priesthood according to Roman tradition and custom.

IV. The Flamen Primoris is given the authority and responsibility to select any and all local and provincial sacerdotes within the province of lacus magni by way of cooption.

V. The Flamen Primoris is given the authority to issue decrees, binding upon the citizenry of Lacus Magni, but subject to veto by the Propraetor and the Collegium Pontificum of Nova Roma.

VI. The Flamen Primoris shall answer directly to the Propraetor, and shall be the primary advisor to the Propraetor in matters that relate to the Religio Romana.

VII. The Flamen Primoris shall be considered a �Provincial Sacerdos� as defined in LEX FABIA CENTURIATA, and shall take an oath, defined elsewhere, upon assuming the priesthood.

VIII. I hereby appoint Gaius Modius Athanasius to serve the Great Province of Lacus Magni as our first Flamen Primoris.



Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18267 From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Lacus Magni Provincial Edict XV
(Spurius Postumius Tubertus please update the provincial website accordingly - MBA)





EX DOMO PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE LACUUM MAGNORUM
EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS XV


On the Appointment of New Magistrates



Effective ante diem XVIII Kal. IANVARIAS MMDCCLVI a.u.c. (December 15, 2003) I, Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Propraetor of the Provincia Lacus Magni, issue this edict concerning the appointment Magistrates within the Great Provincia of Lacus Magni:



I. This edict replaces Edict X.

II. Gaius Modius Athanasius is hereby appointed Procurator of Lacus Magni.

III. Agrippina Modia Aurelia is hereby appointed Legate of Regionis Orientalis.

IV. Corvus Cassius Taurusis is hereby appointed Legate of Regionis Septemtrionalis

V. Prima Fabia Drusila is hereby retained as Legate of Regionis Occidentalis.

VI. Octavia Bianchia Crispiana is hereby retained as Scriba Proptaetoris for Lacus Magni.
Spurius Postumius Tubertus is hereby retained as Retiarius.


Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18268 From: politicog Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@...> wrote:
> Salve Honorable Lucius Quintius Constantius!
>
> I expect the present pair of Censors to look into
> what happens during
> their term. As the "next" pair will have to deal
> with what happens
> during their term.
>

This would place the whole responsibility on Marcus
Octavius Germanicus, as the continuing Censor.
Censors, like other magistrates, begin their term of
service on January 1 and it ends on December 31 two
years later. There is always one out-going Censor.

I believe a censorial nota is the only way to remove
a member of the Senate. Such a nota must be issued
"collegially." It would be impossible for Germanicus
and Diocletianus to issue a nota against a Senator for
violating the provisions of the law this year, because
the calendar year ends on December 31 and so we have
no idea who falls into that category of inactivity
until December 31.

It is true that the Lex Octavia de Senatoribus does
not mandate that the Censors issue a nota for a
Senator in this category. But your statement would
allow all Censors to forever evade the purpose of the
Lex. Is that your intention?

Should we allow Senators who no longer desire to
serve the Republic to continue in office indefinitely?
I think a lifetime office is a privilege and those
who wish to keep that privilege must act worthy of it.

Lucius Quintius Constantius




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18269 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salve, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus -

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 01:42:38AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> Salve Diana who wrote
>
> > "For example, if a plaintiff (a Consular candidate) tells the
> > defendant (by coincidence another Consular) that he is filing a
> > lawsuit against her and in the same email states that he suspects
> > that filing those charges would result in her not being able to be
> > Consul. Shouldn't the citizenship be informed about this rather than
> > letting a candidate maintain a mild mannered persona publicly while
> > in the meantime he is trying to remove his competition from the
> > election privately?"
> >
> Diana what the hell is going on here????

That's a very good question, indeed. If Diana is giving a purely
rhetorical example with no connection to actual events, I, for one,
would really appreciate her clearly denoting the above as such; "For
example" is not sufficient for the purpose - it could well be an example
of erotema, a rhetorical device that asserts or denies something
obliquely by asking a question (a.k.a. "push poll".) Her email does not
supply sufficient context to decide. On the other hand, if she's
accusing someone of underhanded activity as described above -
*particularly* after stating that she won't be bringing charges against
anyone - that would be an interesting demonstration of the method she
does intend to use instead of the legal one (which is not something I
would hope to see from anyone running for office in Nova Roma);
hopefully, this second example is _not_ the correct explanation. The
third possibility - one I also hope is not the case - is that Diana is
using implication to smear an opponent without any actual substance to
the issue.

I await the answer - keeping always in mind the possibility that there
may be yet other explanations - with bated breath.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Canis timidus vehementius latrat quam mordet.
A timid dog barks more violently than it bites.
-- Curtius Rufus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18270 From: agrippina_modia_aurelia Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Oath of Office
I, Agrippina Modia Aurelia (Heather Changeri) hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Agrippina Modia Aurelia (Heather
Changeri) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Agrippina Modia Aurelia (Heather Changeri) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.

I, Agrippina Modia Aurelia (Heather Changeri) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Agrippina Modia Aurelia (Heather Changeri) further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legate
Regionis Orientalis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Legate and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18271 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
AVE

Without wishing to be self-serving or sychophantic in any way. I wish
to publicly thank you honourable Cn. SALIX ASTVR for your public
endorsement of my candidature for the magistry of AEDILE PLEBIS. I am
truly honoured.

I know whoever is successful shall serve ROMA AETERNA well.

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
PROPRAETOR PROVINCIAE HIBERNIAE

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> Here I am, ready to follow this peculiar Novoroman tradition one
more
> year :-). I'd bet that no one would be too interested in who I am
> going to vote for, but... what the heck, I am not going to be the
> only one that does not make it public!
>
> First of all, I would like to thank all those who have supported my
> candidacy during the last few weeks. You all have been very kind to
> me.
>
> Now, let's get on with my own preferences (I am the only one who
> keeps thinking about the Oscar night? ;-) ):
>
> CENSOR: I am going to vote for K. Fabius Quintilianus. Our censores
> have several important duties, but one of the most important ones
is
> that they are the ones who deal with our newest citizens. Because
of
> his personal character, and precisely because he has a lot of
> experience dealing with people, I think that K. Fabius Quintilianus
> is the best possible choice for censor.
>
> CONSUL: Well; I guess that many people will already know who I am
> going to vote for ;-). I will also vote for Cn. Equitius Marinus. I
> have had the opportunity to know him in the last few years, and I
> think that he is a trustworthy and capable person, who will be an
> excellent addition to the Senate and who will guide our Res Publica
> towards a much needed period of change.
>
> PRAETOR: This is the most difficult one for me, because *all* the
> candidates seem truly excellent. M. Arminius Maior and I shared the
> Tribunate two years ago, and I couldn't think of a better candidate
> to fill the praetorial office. Not only he knows more about
Novoroman
> law than anyone else I've heard of, but he is trustworthy, hard
> working and very kind.
>
> I will also vote for Cn. Octavius Noricus. Whenever we have talked,
> he has striken me as a very reasonable person. He is ready to
listen
> to what others have to say, and he is ready to accept the ideas of
> others if he considers them appropriate. All in all, an excellent
> candidate to the praetorship.
>
> And then, I will *also* vote for D. Iunius Palladius. I would be
> being completely unfair if I didn't, because he is an excellent
> candidate as well. Not only has he worked hard to improve the
> situation in Britannia, but he is pretty intelligent as well.
>
> AEDILIS CVRVLIS: There isn't much of a competition here, because
> there are only two candidates for two positions. But what a pair of
> candidates! If Cicero said one thing about the Roman culture and C.
> Iulius Scaurus said another, I'd bet that Cicero is the one who'd
be
> wrong! I am very excited for the prospect of seeing the kind of
> historically accurate ludi C. Iulius Scaurus will prepare.
>
> As for M. Iulius Perusianus, his work for the Magna Mater project
> speaks for itself. Keep going!
>
> AEDILIS PLEBEIVS: My first choice will be Emilia Curia Finnica. I
> have had the pleasure to work with her in the Academia Thules, and
I
> know how constant, kind and amiable she is.
>
> My second choice will M. Calidius Gracchus. Our Hibernian citizens
> need our support :-).
>
> TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: This is going to be long :-).
>
> First of all, I will vote for Iulilla Sempronia Magna. She has the
> experience, she has the charm, and she will make and excellent
> tribuna plebis.
>
> I will also vote for L. Arminius Faustus. I like the way he thinks.
> He will be a good protector of the rights of the Plebs.
>
> I will vote for Fr. Apulus Caesar. If neighbours don't support each
> other, what a world would this be? Certainly not a Roman one :-).
>
> I will also vote for C. Modius Athanasius. He strikes me as a very
> well balanced, moderate and reasonable person. Exactly the kind of
> qualities one would like to have in a tribunus plebis.
>
> QVAESTOR: Once more, eight candidates for eight positions. I will
be
> voting for them *all*. I am particulary happy to see some names
> beginning their Cursus Honorum: C. Curius Saturninus, Arnamentia
> Moravia Aurelia, Gaia Fabia Livia and Caius Iulius Marius. I wish
> them good luck in their political careers; I am sure that Nova Roma
> will benefit with their presence.
>
> VIGINTISEXTIVIRI: I will vote for everyone there, especially for my
> old friends M. Minucius Audens and M. Octavius Germanicus, who are
> once more upon the breach to serve Nova Roma. My salute, senatores!
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18272 From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salve Faustus,

I'm very impressed from your passion for the plebeian Magistracies,
it's helping to give us a most large idea and consideration of the
Offices. I'm sure you'll be a very good Tribune. Congratulations!

However I hope you want insert the Office of the Curule Aedile in
this statement: "Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make
Tribuneship, 2756 must be the year of the Aedilship"
All the Offices are increased in teh last years, both the curulians
and the plebeians. We Aediles must manage not only the Ludi but a
big range of duties.
For example during the last year as Curule Aedile I organized
meetings, ludi, new groups of citizens (Ludi Circenses Factiones),
laws and first of all the live archeological project.
The Aedile mustn't to be only a good "game-master" but an important
and skilled officer managing a fund and raising money for a real
project involving money, contacts, istitutions, men, societies, etc.
I hope the Plebeian Aediles will have more duties and rights in the
future with your ideas like the Curule Aediles is making now.

I invite the candidates to the Offices of Plebeian and Curule Aedile
to use soon the Collegium of Aediles, to collaborate in the project
and ludi and find common solutions. We did it but you'lh have to do
more.

Yes, Faustus, I agree with you: the Aediles will be very important
in the next years. :-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve, Emilia, et omnia candidates for Plebeian Aedile.
>
> The candidates for Plebeian Aediles will receive my support only
> AFTER election.
>
> Why?
>
> Well... many things slipped throught the Pleborum fingers this
year
> (yes, this genitive plural has only good-intentions).
>
> Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make Tribuneship, 2756
must
> be the year of the Aedilship.
>
> After my experience this year, I have on my head some ideas for
> legislation for the Plebeian Aedilship, as well as the tribunes
this
> year and candidates for consulship and praetorship.
>
> So, prepare yourselves to work even more than your predecessors.
Ludi
> Cerealia (12-19 apr) and Plebeian (4-18 nov) are surely question
of
> honour, but on ancient Rome the aediles made more, even more, far
> more...
>
> It is impressive how simple measures can turn the tides and make
work
> easier... or glorier.
>
> The future aediles are the key.
>
> Anyway, the aediles, whoever of the three, can count with me. But
> sure we will need them much more for the reforms.
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Senior et Sole Plebeian Aedile
> (until more two weeks, two weeks...)
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Emilia Curia Finnica
<e.curia@w...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> >
> > I want to say my sincere thanks to everybody who has lately
> endorsed me:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (my endorsement for Censor):
> > Thank you too for a very nice time in Bologna and Rome. In fact,
> all
> > the pictures I used on my campaign site a from the same trip. :)
> And,
> > thank you for noticing all my previous engagements within your
> > Cohors' and other things.
> > ng a bit late sending my answers, my exams continue
> > for an another week because of a renovation at the university. I
> also
> > played a role in the Christmas play in our department's
Saturnalia -
>
> > it's an old Finnish play, but we traditionally act and sing in
> > ancient Latin, Greek and Arabic. :)
> >
> >
> > Valete,
> > --
> >
> >
> > Emilia Curia Finnica
> > Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> > Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18273 From: Sean Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Thanks to CORDVS ET PIVS
AVETE,

May I also be permitted to proffer my sincere and warmest thanks to
A. APOLLONIVS CORDVS for his endorsement of me and TITVS OCTAVIVS
PIVS for his kind words. They are deeply appreciated.

VALETE

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
PROPRAETOR PROVINCIAE HIBERNIAE

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18274 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salve, Apule, amice,

I was on no meaning lowering the Curule magistrature, no, I was
talking on `Plebeian context´. Tribuneship, Aedilship always ´of the
Plebis´. "Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make Tribuneship
(of the Plebis), 2756 must be the year of the Aedilship (of the
Plebis)"

There was a Tribuneship Militar, when tribunes were elected on place
of consuls. This was before consuls could be plebeian. So the
genitive.

I will be very sincere here. I myself didn´t a 1/10 of a plebeain
aedile could be capable of.

> For example during the last year as Curule Aedile I organized
> meetings, ludi, new groups of citizens (Ludi Circenses Factiones),
> laws and first of all the live archeological project.

Yes, but this is of the Curule Aedilship. On Ancient Rome, the both
pair of Aediles had the same duties. If it would be Plebeian, these
projects would have the same acceptance on Nova Roma?

I will let question open.

You all know the arguments I gave you on my speeches Contra Lex Fabia
Centuriata. You may read all on my office:
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/discursos/contra.htm
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/discursos/contra2.htm
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/discursos/contra3.htm
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/lafaustus/discursos/contra4.htm

Alas, another interesting source is:
http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romangvt.html (I find this cursus
honorum very interesting)

The Curule Aedilship already is on good hands, consacrated by good
laws and uses. But the Plebeian still is ´on the air´

I am not accusing anyone. If someone must be accused, it was supposed
to be I myself. I hadn´t needed to expect Tribuneship to do
something. I hadn´t needed to expect Lex Fabia Centuriata making
official the gap between the two Aedilships to notice THE ´gap´
before. I hadn´t needed to expect to a suffectus Plebeian Aedile not
raise alone from the lazzyness the Plebs had immersed without the
help of the Senior Aedile, I me myself Faustus alone. I hadn´t needed
to expect so bad omens to see how the Gods were angry, when the
Flaminem Cerealis and Iunior Aedile renounced. I hadn´t needed to
expect this year elections, when on the very start of last year
elections I have become candidate because there was no one. I hadn´t
needed to expect neither men neither omen if reading our Constitution
we can see that we can´t see what exactly a hell a Plebeian Aedile
can do.

Yes, mea culpa, mea magna culpa.

So, brilliant electoral campaign mine! Make me Tribune to correct
things on a magistrature I have endured without correcting. Citizens,
I have a judge worse than you all, my conscience.

The Aedilship as a whole did lots of things. However, misbalance can
turn everything to ashes. We had our grim defeats, yes, Senior Curule
Aedile. On the first semester, Megalesian Ludi was turned on a hell
of arguing. Before, we have the vetoed edictas of the Macellum,
another pain. And the small controverse of dirty tricks between Ludi
Victoria and Plebeian, although I myself who had spread the virus,
but there was people grieved.

At least, all ludi on our agenda was fulfilled, and this is a reason
of happyness and hope. If we can´t accomplish small things, we
cannot have credibility to say great things.

But I am talking too much. And there is a saying of poet Horatius
´The mountains will give birth, a mouse will be born´.

When we talk too much of too much grandeur, the results are often
disappointing.

Tacet, Fauste...

Vale bene in pacem deoum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior et Sole Plebeian Aedile.


PS.(The plebeians aediles had also the duty of throwing condenates
from the Tarpeian Rock... good to put on NR, Hum ;) Just kidding.)




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Faustus,
>
> I'm very impressed from your passion for the plebeian Magistracies,
> it's helping to give us a most large idea and consideration of the
> Offices. I'm sure you'll be a very good Tribune. Congratulations!
>
> However I hope you want insert the Office of the Curule Aedile in
> this statement: "Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make
> Tribuneship, 2756 must be the year of the Aedilship"
> All the Offices are increased in teh last years, both the curulians
> and the plebeians. We Aediles must manage not only the Ludi but a
> big range of duties.
> For example during the last year as Curule Aedile I organized
> meetings, ludi, new groups of citizens (Ludi Circenses Factiones),
> laws and first of all the live archeological project.
> The Aedile mustn't to be only a good "game-master" but an important
> and skilled officer managing a fund and raising money for a real
> project involving money, contacts, istitutions, men, societies, etc.
> I hope the Plebeian Aediles will have more duties and rights in the
> future with your ideas like the Curule Aediles is making now.
>
> I invite the candidates to the Offices of Plebeian and Curule
Aedile
> to use soon the Collegium of Aediles, to collaborate in the project
> and ludi and find common solutions. We did it but you'lh have to do
> more.
>
> Yes, Faustus, I agree with you: the Aediles will be very important
> in the next years. :-)
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Senior Curule Aedile
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
> <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> > Salve, Emilia, et omnia candidates for Plebeian Aedile.
> >
> > The candidates for Plebeian Aediles will receive my support only
> > AFTER election.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Well... many things slipped throught the Pleborum fingers this
> year
> > (yes, this genitive plural has only good-intentions).
> >
> > Hum... once at time. 2755 was the year to make Tribuneship, 2756
> must
> > be the year of the Aedilship.
> >
> > After my experience this year, I have on my head some ideas for
> > legislation for the Plebeian Aedilship, as well as the tribunes
> this
> > year and candidates for consulship and praetorship.
> >
> > So, prepare yourselves to work even more than your predecessors.
> Ludi
> > Cerealia (12-19 apr) and Plebeian (4-18 nov) are surely question
> of
> > honour, but on ancient Rome the aediles made more, even more, far
> > more...
> >
> > It is impressive how simple measures can turn the tides and make
> work
> > easier... or glorier.
> >
> > The future aediles are the key.
> >
> > Anyway, the aediles, whoever of the three, can count with me. But
> > sure we will need them much more for the reforms.
> >
> > Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> > L. Arminius Faustus
> > Senior et Sole Plebeian Aedile
> > (until more two weeks, two weeks...)
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Emilia Curia Finnica
> <e.curia@w...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > >
> > > I want to say my sincere thanks to everybody who has lately
> > endorsed me:
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (my endorsement for Censor):
> > > Thank you too for a very nice time in Bologna and Rome. In
fact,
> > all
> > > the pictures I used on my campaign site a from the same
trip. :)
> > And,
> > > thank you for noticing all my previous engagements within your
> > > Cohors' and other things.
> > > ng a bit late sending my answers, my exams continue
> > > for an another week because of a renovation at the university.
I
> > also
> > > played a role in the Christmas play in our department's
> Saturnalia -
> >
> > > it's an old Finnish play, but we traditionally act and sing in
> > > ancient Latin, Greek and Arabic. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Emilia Curia Finnica
> > > Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> > > Accensa Ordinaria Cohors Consulis CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18275 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Endorsements
Salve, propraetor,

Everything I´ve said on my previous email answering Emilia Curia
about the Aedilship applies to all candidates! I´m glad you´ve raise
to propraetorship of a so traditional province like Hibernia.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sean" <cybernaut911@y...> wrote:
> AVE
>
> Without wishing to be self-serving or sychophantic in any way. I
wish
> to publicly thank you honourable Cn. SALIX ASTVR for your public
> endorsement of my candidature for the magistry of AEDILE PLEBIS. I
am
> truly honoured.
>
> I know whoever is successful shall serve ROMA AETERNA well.
>
> M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS
> PROPRAETOR PROVINCIAE HIBERNIAE
>
> TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
> <salixastur@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites.
> >
> > Here I am, ready to follow this peculiar Novoroman tradition one
> more
> > year :-). I'd bet that no one would be too interested in who I am
> > going to vote for, but... what the heck, I am not going to be the
> > only one that does not make it public!
> >
> > First of all, I would like to thank all those who have supported
my
> > candidacy during the last few weeks. You all have been very kind
to
> > me.
> >
> > Now, let's get on with my own preferences (I am the only one who
> > keeps thinking about the Oscar night? ;-) ):
> >
> > CENSOR: I am going to vote for K. Fabius Quintilianus. Our
censores
> > have several important duties, but one of the most important ones
> is
> > that they are the ones who deal with our newest citizens. Because
> of
> > his personal character, and precisely because he has a lot of
> > experience dealing with people, I think that K. Fabius
Quintilianus
> > is the best possible choice for censor.
> >
> > CONSUL: Well; I guess that many people will already know who I am
> > going to vote for ;-). I will also vote for Cn. Equitius Marinus.
I
> > have had the opportunity to know him in the last few years, and I
> > think that he is a trustworthy and capable person, who will be an
> > excellent addition to the Senate and who will guide our Res
Publica
> > towards a much needed period of change.
> >
> > PRAETOR: This is the most difficult one for me, because *all* the
> > candidates seem truly excellent. M. Arminius Maior and I shared
the
> > Tribunate two years ago, and I couldn't think of a better
candidate
> > to fill the praetorial office. Not only he knows more about
> Novoroman
> > law than anyone else I've heard of, but he is trustworthy, hard
> > working and very kind.
> >
> > I will also vote for Cn. Octavius Noricus. Whenever we have
talked,
> > he has striken me as a very reasonable person. He is ready to
> listen
> > to what others have to say, and he is ready to accept the ideas
of
> > others if he considers them appropriate. All in all, an excellent
> > candidate to the praetorship.
> >
> > And then, I will *also* vote for D. Iunius Palladius. I would be
> > being completely unfair if I didn't, because he is an excellent
> > candidate as well. Not only has he worked hard to improve the
> > situation in Britannia, but he is pretty intelligent as well.
> >
> > AEDILIS CVRVLIS: There isn't much of a competition here, because
> > there are only two candidates for two positions. But what a pair
of
> > candidates! If Cicero said one thing about the Roman culture and
C.
> > Iulius Scaurus said another, I'd bet that Cicero is the one who'd
> be
> > wrong! I am very excited for the prospect of seeing the kind of
> > historically accurate ludi C. Iulius Scaurus will prepare.
> >
> > As for M. Iulius Perusianus, his work for the Magna Mater project
> > speaks for itself. Keep going!
> >
> > AEDILIS PLEBEIVS: My first choice will be Emilia Curia Finnica. I
> > have had the pleasure to work with her in the Academia Thules,
and
> I
> > know how constant, kind and amiable she is.
> >
> > My second choice will M. Calidius Gracchus. Our Hibernian
citizens
> > need our support :-).
> >
> > TRIBUNUS PLEBIS: This is going to be long :-).
> >
> > First of all, I will vote for Iulilla Sempronia Magna. She has
the
> > experience, she has the charm, and she will make and excellent
> > tribuna plebis.
> >
> > I will also vote for L. Arminius Faustus. I like the way he
thinks.
> > He will be a good protector of the rights of the Plebs.
> >
> > I will vote for Fr. Apulus Caesar. If neighbours don't support
each
> > other, what a world would this be? Certainly not a Roman one :-).
> >
> > I will also vote for C. Modius Athanasius. He strikes me as a
very
> > well balanced, moderate and reasonable person. Exactly the kind
of
> > qualities one would like to have in a tribunus plebis.
> >
> > QVAESTOR: Once more, eight candidates for eight positions. I will
> be
> > voting for them *all*. I am particulary happy to see some names
> > beginning their Cursus Honorum: C. Curius Saturninus, Arnamentia
> > Moravia Aurelia, Gaia Fabia Livia and Caius Iulius Marius. I wish
> > them good luck in their political careers; I am sure that Nova
Roma
> > will benefit with their presence.
> >
> > VIGINTISEXTIVIRI: I will vote for everyone there, especially for
my
> > old friends M. Minucius Audens and M. Octavius Germanicus, who
are
> > once more upon the breach to serve Nova Roma. My salute,
senatores!
> >
> > S.V.B.E.E.V.
> > CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18276 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Thanks to everybody who has endorsed me
Salvete,

Let me correct faster:

"I hadn´t needed to expect to a suffectus Plebeian Aedile not
> raise alone from the lazzyness the Plebs had immersed without the
> help of the Senior Aedile, I me myself Faustus alone. "


I mean that you couldn´t expect to have a new suffectus if the
remaining magistrate not ´agitate´ things. However, ´the lazzyness
Plebis had immersed´ because really there wouldn´t be necessary on a
class to be ´invoked´ by a magistrate to a citizen offer himself as
suffectus.

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18277 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salve,

> That's a very good question, indeed.

I said 'for example' as a Hint to Marinus that he should drop the charges which he promised me twice
offlist on Saturday that he would file. I then checked with the author of the two leges and he
confirmed the fact that I do not have to keep silent about this.

This is the second time that someone has filed charges against me in the last two weeks. The first
person's charges seemed to have been dropped so that doesn't need to be discussed. In between we
have the interesting email from Tullia folowed up by her brave re-entry in to the Forum to
'apologize' which was just a rewording of the first email. And both emails were gender specific
attempts at character assassination if ever I saw it-- men are rarely accused of 'innaproprate
behavior'. On the contrary if they do act 'inappropriately' they'll be patted on the back by their
mates and told "Way to go!".

So when the people here call for everyone to be friendly just remember that I show the same face to
the citizenry both publicly and pivately while others present their smiley face to the citizenry
even while knifing me in the back with a lawsuit behind the scenes.

Threatening me offlist is a sure way of getting me *not* to apologize or to try to work things out.
I have said before that I will not take anyone to court but that does not mean that I am going to
entirely turn the other cheek when lawsuits are filed against me.

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18278 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> I said 'for example' as a Hint to Marinus that he should
> drop the charges which he promised me twice offlist on
> Saturday that he would file.

You have an interesting way of characterizing a private
e-mail exchange initiated with the intention of keeping
matters civil Diana.

You will recall from the last note that I sent to you on
Saturday (I can post it in public if you wish, I do have
it saved) that I outlined what could happen if things went
to a legal action, and ended by asking you if you thought
it was worth it. Since then I have not taken any further
action on the matter, in the sincere hope that you would
come to your senses and retract your absurd allegation.

> This is the second time that someone has filed charges against me

I haven't (yet) filed any charges against you. I have
explained to you, in private, that I think I have cause,
based on what you posted here in messages 18190, 18191,
and 18197 this Saturday past.

> we have the interesting email from Tullia folowed up
> by her brave re-entry in to the Forum to 'apologize'
> which was just a rewording of the first email. And
> both emails were gender specific attempts at character
> assassination if ever I saw it--

So you're accusing Flavia Tullia of attempting character
assination against you too? You don't suppose it's at least
possible she just thinks you're a bad choice for Consul and
was trying to explain why she feels that way?

> So when the people here call for everyone to be friendly
> just remember that I show the same face to the citizenry
> both publicly and pivately while others present their
> smiley face to the citizenry even while knifing me in the
> back with a lawsuit behind the scenes.

Have no fear Diana. If I charge you with an offense against
the law I'll do it right out in front of the gods and
everybody.

However, I've been acting in the -- perhaps naive -- hope that
you and I could settle the matter privately without the kind
of public fallout that inevitably comes from such a confrontation.
No matter who wins the election, we're both committed to this
organization and we both have to work with each other.

> Threatening me offlist is a sure way of getting me
> *not* to apologize or to try to work things out.

I recall using the term "fair warning." If you think that
equates to "threat" you have a rather poor understanding of
corporate and business communications. Had I wanted to
harm you, I wouldn't have given you any warning at all.
I'd have just posted a sponsio bond and dragged you into a
lawsuit without any warning.

Since you haven't yet replied to my public reply to you,
which I posted on Saturday, I have to conclude that you're
going to ignore the facts and continue to stand obstinately
by your allegations. It's hard to have a public discussion
of anything when one of the respondents won't answer things
directly. Have you asked the Censors to check on the
existence of Flavia Tullia? Have you done any tracing of
her IP address as shown in her posts?

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18279 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
communication, there's this interesting website
I just learned about from a friend who is not in
Nova Roma.

http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/

Much food for thought there. While I realize that
many citizens do not practice the Religio or any
pagan tradition, there's enough in the article to
merit the time it takes to read it.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18280 From: Sp. Postumius Tubertus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Oath of Office
I, Sp. Postumius Tubertus (Lester A. Jones), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honour of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of Propraetor M. Bianchius Antonius while I hold this office, except when such action would be illegal or unconstitutional.

I, Sp. Postumius Tubertus (Lester A. Jones), further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Retiarius to the best of my abilities while following the Roman virtues and ideals.

I, Sp. Postumius Tubertus (Lester A. Jones)swear to give faithful service to my magistrate, and not to divulge any information discussed in confidence. I understand that I serve solely at the discretion of the Propraetor of Lacus Magni.

On my honor as a citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Retiarius with all the privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18281 From: deciusiunius Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
> communication, there's this interesting website
> I just learned about from a friend who is not in
> Nova Roma.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/
>
> Much food for thought there. While I realize that
> many citizens do not practice the Religio or any
> pagan tradition, there's enough in the article to
> merit the time it takes to read it.

If there was an article to read. The link you provide is empty.


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18282 From: Gnaeus Salix Astur Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salvete Quirites; et salve, D. Moravia.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> This is the second time that someone has filed charges against me
> in the last two weeks.

That statement is not true. No lawsuit against you has been presented
to the praetores by Cn. Equitius Marinus.

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18283 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question for Censor Candidates
Salve Honorable Lucius Quintius Constantius!

>--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
><christer.edling@...> wrote:
> > Salve Honorable Lucius Quintius Constantius!
>>
>> I expect the present pair of Censors to look into
>> what happens during
>> their term. As the "next" pair will have to deal
>> with what happens
>> during their term.
>>
>
> This would place the whole responsibility on Marcus
>Octavius Germanicus, as the continuing Censor.
>Censors, like other magistrates, begin their term of
>service on January 1 and it ends on December 31 two
>years later. There is always one out-going Censor.

Yes and this Censor has a duty to do until 31th of December. As the
next Censor would have the next year..

> I believe a censorial nota is the only way to remove
>a member of the Senate. Such a nota must be issued
>"collegially."

The lex doesn't say that a nota has to be used on the contrary.

It is part of the Censors right: "To maintain the album senatorium
(list of Senators), including the power to add and remove names on
that list according to qualifications set by law;" (The Constitution
IV A. 1 d.)

Nota is covered in The Constitution IV A. 1 f. and that is quite another issue.

>It would be impossible for Germanicus
>and Diocletianus to issue a nota against a Senator for
>violating the provisions of the law this year,

No it wouldn't, see below.

>because
>the calendar year ends on December 31 and so we have
>no idea who falls into that category of inactivity
>until December 31.

The last Senate meeting, to my knowledge, has been called to order
already. If the Censors keep tabs of the Senators which I guess that
they do, they would know by now if someone is close to this limit.
Usually we don't have any Senate meetings in the last half of
December and it should be easy for this years Censors to deal with
this as I will have to do during my last month if I am elected.

I am NOT saying that I would try to evade my duty if I would be
elected Censor, but that I will take responsibility for my own term
(should I be elected).

>
> It is true that the Lex Octavia de Senatoribus does
>not mandate that the Censors issue a nota for a
>Senator in this category.

As I have said this has nothing to do with nota.

>But your statement would
>allow all Censors to forever evade the purpose of the
>Lex. Is that your intention?

As You see it isn't. If the very unbelieveable situation would occur
that a Senate meeting is called very late (in the second half of
December) I would be forced to together with a colleague take action.
But as I see it this will very very seldom occur. I am talking about
what is realistic!

> Should we allow Senators who no longer desire to
>serve the Republic to continue in office indefinitely?

No and I have said nothing like it!

> I think a lifetime office is a privilege and those
>who wish to keep that privilege must act worthy of it.

I agree!

>Lucius Quintius Constantius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18284 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Marinus,

> You have an interesting way of characterizing a private
> e-mail exchange initiated with the intention of keeping
> matters civil Diana.

You and I obviously have different ideas of civil.

A) Your email was not civil once you mentioned a Lawsuit
B) My reply was not civil once you mentioned a lawsuit
C) your response to mine was not civil because again you mentioned a lawsuit

IF you are now changing your mind (due to your sense returning) say so. But don't try to make
believe to me that threatening your competition with a lawsuit is a civil thing to do. It isn't.
Apologize for trying to bully me first and then we can take it from there.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18285 From: Diana Moravia Aventina Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
> That statement is not true. No lawsuit against you has been presented
> to the praetores by Cn. Equitius Marinus.

Youre right. My mistake.He's going to the Censors and not the Praetores. Marinus wrote that I was
going to be fined in an amount that he is willing to post a sponsio bond against and the Censors
will issue a nota against me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18286 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities
Salvete

--- deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> escreveu: >
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius
> Marinus <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
> > communication, there's this interesting website
> > I just learned about from a friend who is not in
> > Nova Roma.
> > http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/
[..]
> If there was an article to read. The link you
> provide is empty.
> Palladius

M.Arminius: Interesting, it worked for me. Its a very
long and interesting article.
I noticed that, occasionally, some links that worked
for others doesnt worked for me, and vice versa. Do
somebody has an explanation (who can we blame, yahoo
services, local configuration etc.) ?

Vale
M.Arminius Maior

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail: 6MB, anti-spam e antivírus gratuito! Crie sua conta agora:
http://mail.yahoo.com.br
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18287 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: The Path to Destruction
Salvete Omnes,

This talk of lawsuits, of bringing charges before the Praetors is a
threat to Freedom of Speech in Nova Roma. Last Year I pushed for a
stricter definition of Blasphemy because a loosely defined Blasphemy
charge was having a chilling effect on freedom of speech. A Praetor of
Nova Roma felt that she couldn't defend herself against the rantings of
a bigoted Pagan without incuring the risk of being hauled before a court
on Blasphemy charges. Threats of Legal action for speaking on this list
will have the same chilling effects on freedom of speech, it will result
in a self Censorship that is as strict as any found in a dictatorship.

There are historic reasons why we shouldn't go down that road. Caesar
had to maintain Imperium to prevent his foes from burying him under a
flood of legal action where a single loss would have resulted in his
personal destruction. His need to retain Imperium destroyed the Ancient
Republic, and we will destroy the modern republic if we go charges crazy.

For a more recent example look at politics in the United States. An ever
escalating tit for tat series of charges against public officials
poisoned America with the politics of personal destruction. Laws were
stretched to the breaking point to get the dirt on someone in yet
another act of vengeance. One man was sentenced to federal prison for
bribery for inviting the secretary of Agriculture to a bar-b-que under a
90 year old law against bribing meat inspectors. The mess finally
resulted in the President of the United States being impeached on
utterly trivial charges as the madness for vengeance continued. Don't
bother trying to tell me how serious they were, I KNOW the congressman
who introduced the charges. The Articles of Impeachment were written for
a bogus charge of illegal campaign contributions and rewritten for the
stupid perjury charge. Bob was looking for an excuse to nail Clinton.

This crap is the last thing Nova Roma needs. If we get involved in a
series of pettier and pettier lawsuits in a cycle of vengeance then the
path to the praetors desk will be the road to the destruction of Nova Roma.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18288 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salve Diana

You were privately offered proof of Flavia Tullia's existence yet persisted in these wild allegations that Marinus invented her. You were the one who wouldn't accept Flavia's reality or her apology and then made allegations against Marinus despite repeated offers of proof that Flavia Tullia exists - and now you are asking for sympathy as a victim!
When people write you to offer help in clearing up a misunderstanding, it should be clear that there IS a misunderstanding - I have no political motives here, Diana, and never have other than my desire to keep you from going too far with this as a friend.

Vale
~ Servius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@...>
Sent: Dec 15, 2003 2:40 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis


> That statement is not true. No lawsuit against you has been presented
> to the praetores by Cn. Equitius Marinus.

Youre right. My mistake.He's going to the Censors and not the Praetores. Marinus wrote that I was
going to be fined in an amount that he is willing to post a sponsio bond against and the Censors
will issue a nota against me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18289 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Results of Voting in the Centuria Praerogativa
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
Fortunatus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Thank you for explaining what these results represent;
and let me emphasise that I didn't mean to suggest
you'd presented them improperly. The lex Fabia
actually doesn't specify in what form these interim
results should be given, which is why I wondered. :)

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18290 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Discussion of C. Centuriata Voting Procedure
A. Apollonius Cordus to Curator Ti. Galerius Paulinus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> Nothing is my post was about the dumbing down of
> a lex just the need or at least the desire to have
> them written in plain, clear and unambiguous
> English, Latin, Spanish, German, etc

Fair enough; I'd quite agree with that. I'd be
interested to hear precisely which provisions of the
lex Fabia you think are not plain, clear and
unambiguous.

> In his "Principles of Roman Law" Fritz Schulz has
> an entire chapter on "simplicity" as it was
> practiced by the Romans in their laws.
>
> He writes
>
> "...the facts remain however ;an essential
> characteristic of Roman law has been ascertained.
> Simplicity, not multiplicity and love of variations;
> simple uncomplicated forms; limitation to a few
> clearly recognizable themes-
> these are indeed Roman principles. This is (what)
> was aimed at and for the most part attained by the
> republican and classical eras ."

Again, I would agree that the Romans were not fond of
multiplicity and variation; they, like all decent
legislators, made things as simple as possible while
still functioning properly. Nonetheless, there is a
difference between expressing something simply and
expressing something simple. The Romans patently did
not prefer simple systems and institutions - their
constitution, for example, was one of the most
complicated political systems the ancient world ever
saw; they chose the system that worked best, and then
wrote it down as simply as possible. I contend that
this is precisely what has been done in the case under discussion.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18291 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune Diana Moravia Aventina
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

You wrote:

> Cordus brought up the 2 laws above.
> I've stated before that I do not like any of the
> punishment laws and will not file charges against
> anyone no matter what they say about me publicly. I
> also will not file counter charges against
> anyone in retaliation. That said I am the perfect
> target for those who don't have the mental
> fortitude to discuss/argue publicly or privately
> and in that way settle differences.

Tribune, this is the second time in as many months
that you have hi-jacked a message of mine to turn it
into a political point against someone else. I do not
care how legitimate your grievance, I must ask you
again *do not* make me party to your quarrels with
others by starting with 'a propos what Cordus was
saying'.

Secondly, may I correct your implication on a minor
matter:

> For example, if a plaintiff (a Consular candidate)
> tells the defendant (by coincidence another
> Consular) that he is filing a lawsuit against her
> and in the same email states that he suspects that
> filing those charges would result in her not being
> able to be Consul. Shouldn't the citizenship be
> informed about this rather than letting a candidate
> maintain a mild mannered persona publicly while
> in the meantime he is trying to remove his
> competition from the election privately?

I don't pretend to know the details of the case you're
alluding to beyond those which have been made public
so far by yourself and others; but I do know that the
only way a prosecution could prevent you running for
consul would be if you were convicted before voting
began. Even if charges had been filed against you up
to a week ago it is extremely unlikely that a trial
could have been organized in time to eliminate you
from the election or even dent your reputation before
voting began. I therefore cannot see how any charges,
or private warning of charges, against you can
possibly have been designed to 'remove you from the
election'.

Naturally I don't know what motives are at work on
either side of this story; I simply urge you not to
jump to unlikely conclusions.

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18292 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: The Path to Destruction
A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

You wrote:

> This talk of lawsuits, of bringing charges before
> the Praetors is a
> threat to Freedom of Speech in Nova Roma.
...
> Threats of Legal action for
> speaking on this list
> will have the same chilling effects on freedom of
> speech, it will result
> in a self Censorship that is as strict as any found
> in a dictatorship.

... and similar things, including copious use of words
like 'chilling' and 'destruction'.

Senator, may I suggest to you that rhetoric of this
kind, under the subject-line 'The Path to
Destruction', is not likely to encourage people to
remain calm and collected?

Prosecutions are not a 'path to destruction', nor a
'cycle of vengeance', nor any other kind of melodrama.
To suggest that people should not prosecute other
people is absurd. Obviously it is undesirable for
people to mount frivolous prosecutions. Equally
obviously it is positively desirable for people to
mount serious prosecutions if there are serious
charges to answer. Neither you nor I are equipped to
say which is the case here.

Our laws are there to provide restitution for those
who have been wronged and to deter those who might
otherwise commit offences. If we were to accept your
advice and avoid lawsuits like the plague then the law
would have neither of these effects.

The filing of lawsuits will not lead to censorship,
dictatorship, the end of freedom of speech or the
destruction of Nova Roma, as you hysterically claim.
Citizens may say what they please without fear of
punishment so long as they say nothing which is false
and defamatory. If people become afraid to say things
which are false and defamatory, so much the better.

If you continue to try to stir up unfounded panic, I
may begin to think you're doing it deliberately to
give yourself the chance to pose as the defender of
freedom. Defending it against what? Due process of
law? Not a vote-winner, Senator. Let's all stay calm,
shall we?

________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18293 From: rory12001 Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex Poenalis
Salvete Quirites;
I too have had correspondence with Flavia Tullia, before all this
brou-ha-ha & indeed she is a real live person. Let's go forward or go
to the Back Alley where the big boys & girls retire to duke it out!
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica



> Salve Diana
>
> You were privately offered proof of Flavia Tullia's existence yet
persisted in these wild allegations that Marinus invented her. You
were the one who wouldn't accept Flavia's reality or her apology and
then made allegations against Marinus despite repeated offers of
proof that Flavia Tullia exists - and now you are asking for sympathy
as a victim!
> When people write you to offer help in clearing up a
misunderstanding, it should be clear that there IS a
misunderstanding - I have no political motives here, Diana, and never
have other than my desire to keep you from going too far with this as
a friend.
>
> Vale
> ~ Servius Troianus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@p...>
> Sent: Dec 15, 2003 2:40 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question about Lex Salicia and Lex
Poenalis
>
>
> > That statement is not true. No lawsuit against you has been
presented
> > to the praetores by Cn. Equitius Marinus.
>
> Youre right. My mistake.He's going to the Censors and not the
Praetores. Marinus wrote that I was
> going to be fined in an amount that he is willing to post a sponsio
bond against and the Censors
> will issue a nota against me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 18294 From: L. Sicinius Drusus Date: 2003-12-15
Subject: Re: The Path to Destruction
There is NO way to stop people from coming to the conclusion that some
charges are politically motivated and once that conclusion is reached
the process in the comitia will become political. I Have seen it happen
firsthand in the United States and Nova Roma doesn't have some magical
protection against the process escalating from charges that are beleaved
to be politically motivated to charges that ARE political.

The Ill defined Blasphemy clause caused this problem last year, and the
process will recur under threats of litigation.

L. Sicinius Drusus


A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> You wrote:
>
> > This talk of lawsuits, of bringing charges before
> > the Praetors is a
> > threat to Freedom of Speech in Nova Roma.
> ...
> > Threats of Legal action for
> > speaking on this list
> > will have the same chilling effects on freedom of
> > speech, it will result
> > in a self Censorship that is as strict as any found
> > in a dictatorship.
>
> ... and similar things, including copious use of words
> like 'chilling' and 'destruction'.
>
> Senator, may I suggest to you that rhetoric of this
> kind, under the subject-line 'The Path to
> Destruction', is not likely to encourage people to
> remain calm and collected?
>
> Prosecutions are not a 'path to destruction', nor a
> 'cycle of vengeance', nor any other kind of melodrama.
> To suggest that people should not prosecute other
> people is absurd. Obviously it is undesirable for
> people to mount frivolous prosecutions. Equally
> obviously it is positively desirable for people to
> mount serious prosecutions if there are serious
> charges to answer. Neither you nor I are equipped to
> say which is the case here.
>
> Our laws are there to provide restitution for those
> who have been wronged and to deter those who might
> otherwise commit offences. If we were to accept your
> advice and avoid lawsuits like the plague then the law
> would have neither of these effects.
>
> The filing of lawsuits will not lead to censorship,
> dictatorship, the end of freedom of speech or the
> destruction of Nova Roma, as you hysterically claim.
> Citizens may say what they please without fear of
> punishment so long as they say nothing which is false
> and defamatory. If people become afraid to say things
> which are false and defamatory, so much the better.
>
> If you continue to try to stir up unfounded panic, I
> may begin to think you're doing it deliberately to
> give yourself the chance to pose as the defender of
> freedom. Defending it against what? Due process of
> law? Not a vote-winner, Senator. Let's all stay calm,
> shall we?
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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