There is NO way to stop people from coming to the conclusion that some
charges are politically motivated and once that conclusion is reached
the process in the comitia will become political. I Have seen it happen
firsthand in the United States and Nova Roma doesn't have some magical
protection against the process escalating from charges that are beleaved
to be politically motivated to charges that ARE political.

The Ill defined Blasphemy clause caused this problem last year, and the
process will recur under threats of litigation.

L. Sicinius Drusus


A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I hope you're well; I'm well.
>
> You wrote:
>
> > This talk of lawsuits, of bringing charges before
> > the Praetors is a
> > threat to Freedom of Speech in Nova Roma.
> ...
> > Threats of Legal action for
> > speaking on this list
> > will have the same chilling effects on freedom of
> > speech, it will result
> > in a self Censorship that is as strict as any found
> > in a dictatorship.
>
> ... and similar things, including copious use of words
> like 'chilling' and 'destruction'.
>
> Senator, may I suggest to you that rhetoric of this
> kind, under the subject-line 'The Path to
> Destruction', is not likely to encourage people to
> remain calm and collected?
>
> Prosecutions are not a 'path to destruction', nor a
> 'cycle of vengeance', nor any other kind of melodrama.
> To suggest that people should not prosecute other
> people is absurd. Obviously it is undesirable for
> people to mount frivolous prosecutions. Equally
> obviously it is positively desirable for people to
> mount serious prosecutions if there are serious
> charges to answer. Neither you nor I are equipped to
> say which is the case here.
>
> Our laws are there to provide restitution for those
> who have been wronged and to deter those who might
> otherwise commit offences. If we were to accept your
> advice and avoid lawsuits like the plague then the law
> would have neither of these effects.
>
> The filing of lawsuits will not lead to censorship,
> dictatorship, the end of freedom of speech or the
> destruction of Nova Roma, as you hysterically claim.
> Citizens may say what they please without fear of
> punishment so long as they say nothing which is false
> and defamatory. If people become afraid to say things
> which are false and defamatory, so much the better.
>
> If you continue to try to stir up unfounded panic, I
> may begin to think you're doing it deliberately to
> give yourself the chance to pose as the defender of
> freedom. Defending it against what? Due process of
> law? Not a vote-winner, Senator. Let's all stay calm,
> shall we?
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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Gaius Modius Athanasius Gnaeo Equitio Marino SPD:

Considering the recent dialogue you have had on the main list with Diana
Moravia, who just so happens to be a Sacerdos within the Religio Romana, and also
considering that you do not follow the Religio Romana (at least that is the
impression I get from you posts) I find this link highly inappropriate.

Anyone can search the internet and find an article that deals with "bullies"
of any religious tradition.

What does this article have to do with communication within this forum? What
does this article have to do with "the ongoing discussions about civility in
communication?" Is this post a veiled attempt of accusing Diana Moravia of
being a "Pagan Bully?"

What will be the next post? An article on woman who have strong wills? Or
woman who have opinions against yours?

For the record. I was going to stay out this battle. It did not concern me,
and I can see both sides of the story. However, by making it a "Pagan" issue
I take exception to that and voice my opinion out of conscious. I go to
great lengths to be respectful of the religious and moral beliefs of others, I
would recommend that you not bring up this sort of "angle" to the discussion.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 12/15/2003 4:28:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gawne@... writes:
Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
communication, there's this interesting website
I just learned about from a friend who is not in
Nova Roma.

http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/

Much food for thought there. While I realize that
many citizens do not practice the Religio or any
pagan tradition, there's enough in the article to
merit the time it takes to read it.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consul T. Labienus
> Fortunatus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> Thank you for explaining what these results represent;
> and let me emphasise that I didn't mean to suggest
> you'd presented them improperly. The lex Fabia
> actually doesn't specify in what form these interim
> results should be given, which is why I wondered. :)

Salve,

One also needs to remember interim results can be a bit fluid. When
the results of the 1st Class are announced tommorow (I think, I'm
getting a bit calendar crazy here with 101 deadlines at work and in
Nova Roma) those results might not look like the final results as
members of the 1st Classs who haven't voted by that deadline can still
vote up until the close of the voting.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salve Gnaee Modi;
perhaps we should cool off, I am an habituee of the Religio list and
female and found nothing offensive at all in Marinus's posting. My
thought is NR is after all devoted to bringing back the pax deorum so
the post seemed apropos though nothing new.
Really after the mild week of campaigning I think a lot of you
should be sent to law school; or maybe NR needs a course in Roman Law
and the rough and tumble of Roman politics....
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica

>
> What does this article have to do with communication within this

forum? What

> does this article have to do with "the ongoing discussions about

civility in

> communication?" Is this post a veiled attempt of accusing Diana

Moravia of

> being a "Pagan Bully?"
>
> What will be the next post? An article on woman who have strong

wills? Or

> woman who have opinions against yours?
>
> For the record. I was going to stay out this battle. It did not

concern me,

> and I can see both sides of the story. However, by making it

a "Pagan" issue

> I take exception to that and voice my opinion out of conscious. I

go to

> great lengths to be respectful of the religious and moral beliefs

of others, I

> would recommend that you not bring up this sort of "angle" to the

discussion.

>
> Vale;
>
> G. Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 12/15/2003 4:28:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> gawne@c... writes:
> Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
> communication, there's this interesting website
> I just learned about from a friend who is not in
> Nova Roma.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/
>
> Much food for thought there. While I realize that
> many citizens do not practice the Religio or any
> pagan tradition, there's enough in the article to
> merit the time it takes to read it.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Candidate for Consul
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Modius Athanasius SPD

Salvete:

I have approved the request of a potential citizen to join Gens Modia. I
have approved her petition to join the great Gens Modia, and I simply wait for
the censors to approve her citizenship within our Republic. However, in my eyes
she is already a Modia!

I would like to welcome Julia Modia (cant97@...). May the Gods
show her favor!

Valete:

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Pater Familias Gens Modia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gai Modi, et salvete quirites,

> Considering the recent dialogue you have had on the main list with Diana
> Moravia, who just so happens to be a Sacerdos within the Religio Romana, and also
> considering that you do not follow the Religio Romana (at least that is the
> impression I get from you posts) I find this link highly inappropriate.

I considered it appropriate because Nova Roma is, among other things,
a pagan reconstructionist organization.

> Anyone can search the internet and find an article that deals with "bullies"
> of any religious tradition.

It seemed to me that the article was particularly apt in that it discusses
problems among pagan communities, and the things about those communities
which make them particularly vulnerable to the kinds of methods that
unscrupulous people use. I didn't go looking for it. I got the link in
an e-mail from a friend who's a pagan priestess, and the context in which
she passed it had nothing at all to do with NR or anyone here.

> What does this article have to do with communication within this forum?

I've seen the kinds of bullying that this article discusses displayed
in this forum.

> What does this article have to do with "the ongoing discussions about
> civility in communication?"

A couple of people, most notably my gensmate Troianus, have been making a
concerted effort to improve the quality of discourse here. I posted the
link because it touches on concerns that he and I discussed over lunch
on Saturday.

> Is this post a veiled attempt of accusing Diana Moravia of
> being a "Pagan Bully?"

No. Until quite recently I have considered Diana a friend. Her recent
posts have made me rethink that, but I wouldn't characterize them as
bullying. Passive-aggressive perhaps, but not bullying.

> What will be the next post? An article on woman who have strong wills? Or
> woman who have opinions against yours?

Or should I just post nothing, lest anyone decide that whatever I post
bears somehow on my dispute with Diana?

> For the record. I was going to stay out this battle. It did not concern me,
> and I can see both sides of the story. However, by making it a "Pagan" issue
> I take exception to that and voice my opinion out of conscious.

Do you object to anything the website says? Or are you only objecting to
the hidden agenda you thought I had?

> I go to great lengths to be respectful of the religious and moral
> beliefs of others,

As do I. We've seen more than one instance of people using their religious
authority to intimidate others here. I think that the respect you speak of
calls for us to examine the question of how that might happen, and guard
ourselves against it in the future.

> I would recommend that you not bring up this sort of "angle" to the discussion.

You would, would you? If not me, then who would have the moral authority
to post about such a website?

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salve:

While I understand that you do not have to agree with how I feel about this,
understand Pomponia Fabia Vera, that my post was made out of conscious -- as I
am sure your post was made with similar intent. I felt that the post,
listing the link on "Pagan Bullies" was inappropriate. Roman Law aside. I make no
accusations of laws or lawsuits, but I feel that it is disrespectful to bring
this into the discussion. The Religio, Paganism, and religious beliefs have
NOTHING to do with the issues between Marinus and Diana Moravia.

I would have preferred the debate between the two of them to have been done
in private. However, I know that when tempers fly you sometimes post things
you normally would not. But I can assure you, Pomponia Fabia Vera, that I do
not need to cool off. I posted what I did in a mild manner and with full
intent. If my comments upset Marinus then so be it. It is my opinion, and how I
feel about it. Generally, I find both Marinus and Diana Moravia to be
excellent examples of citizenship. Both of them have my respect.

Vale:

G. Modius

In a message dated 12/15/2003 9:30:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:
Salve Gnaee Modi;
perhaps we should cool off, I am an habituee of the Religio list and
female and found nothing offensive at all in Marinus's posting. My
thought is NR is after all devoted to bringing back the pax deorum so
the post seemed apropos though nothing new.
Really after the mild week of campaigning I think a lot of you
should be sent to law school; or maybe NR needs a course in Roman Law
and the rough and tumble of Roman politics....
vale Pomponia Fabia Vera Attica


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Diana, et salvete quirites,

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:

> Apologize for trying to bully me first and then we can take it from there.

Very well. Diana, I apologise for communicating with you in a manner
which resulted in your feeling threatened. I shall endeavor to avoid
that in the future, and I ask that you please let me know if I ever
say anything that causes you to feel threatened.

As for the matter which brought this unfortunate exchange about, I
have word from Censor M. Octavius Germanicus that he has verified
the census data provided by Flavia Scholastica. Since you seem
unwilling to accept that assurance from me, I recommend that you
communicate with him to confirm the truth of the matter. Once you
have done so, I hope you will be satisfied that Flavia Tullia is
indeed a real person and not some construct of mine.

Given that we are leading the polls in early returns, I would like
to find a way to put this behind us, lest next year turn into a very
long year for both of us.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salve Gai Modi, et salvete quirites,

Gaius Modius writes:

> The Religio, Paganism, and religious beliefs have
> NOTHING to do with the issues between Marinus and Diana Moravia.

On that point, my sacredotal friend, we are in complete agreement.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> There is NO way to stop people from coming to the
> conclusion that some
> charges are politically motivated and once that
> conclusion is reached
> the process in the comitia will become political.

There is no *need* to stop people coming to that
conclusion. Whether a prosecution is politically
motivated or not may change how one feels about the
prosecutor (though it shouldn't necessarily), but it
doesn't affect the outcome of the case. If I were to
prosecute someone, it would make no difference at all
whether I did it from duty or from malice: the person
would get off if innocent or be convicted if guilty.

And I don't know what you mean by 'the process in the
comitia' - the comitia are a court of appeal only, and
most normal legal cases are handled by a tribunal
convened by the praetor under the lex Salica
Iudiciaria. Are you acquainted with our legal system?

> I
> Have seen it happen
> firsthand in the United States and Nova Roma doesn't
> have some magical
> protection against the process escalating from
> charges that are beleaved
> to be politically motivated to charges that ARE
> political.

Once again, who cares if charges are political? Has it
caused the United States to spiral into chaos? Whether
or not prosecutions are politically motivated makes
not the slightest difference. A groundless prosecution
motivated by political considerations will inevitably
back-fire on the prosecutor when the defendant is
acquitted; a well-founded prosecution motivated by
political considerations is nonetheless beneficial to
the republic if it results in the conviction of a
guilty party.

No one who is innocent has anything to fear. There is
no cause for alarm, Senator, except your own alarmism.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Gaius Modius Athanasius Gnaeo Equitio Marino SPD

Salve:

I have seen people on this list, who follow the Religio, in possession of
very strong personalities. I have seen these people hammer their point across
very loudly and very fiercely. Some would claim these individuals bullies.

I have also seen the Cohors of our senior Consul, a man I admire and respect,
defend the ideas of their patron (I use the word patron to indicate the
magistrate they serve). Some would claim these individuals to be bullies.

I am involved in several Pagan organizations. In addition to my work within
Nova Roma, and the Religio of Nova Roma I am an ordained priest in a different
organization. I lead a 501c3 Pagan congregation. I have conducted funerals,
weddings, and several rites of passage. I am involved in Pagan networking in
many different levels. I have been active in Pagan leadership for many
years. I think that I am qualified in saying that there are no "Pagan Bullies" in
Nova Roma. There are, however, very opinionated people. There are very
passionate people. These are citizens of our Republic exercising their
constitutional right to voice their opinion.

This article you referred to also has a section called "Book of Shadows for
combating bullies and character assassins.":
http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/spells.htm

Do you advocate that citizens of Nova Roma cast spells on those who they
consider a bully so the bully will "be their friend?" The inclusion of this
section within the article indicates to me that the article is a little off base
for our tastes.

Yes. Nova Roma is a Pagan Reconstructionist organization. But this article
is clearly Wiccan (of a liberal variety at that) and has no place within
Roman Reconstructionism -- IMO. If it was sent to you by a Pagan Priestess
perhaps that person should have posted it to the list themselves, and explain why?

I do agree that people on this forum should use more "decorum" and "tact."
Sometimes being blunt is not always appropriate. Sometimes it is.

Just because something is labeled as "Pagan" doesn't mean it has merit by
those within the Religio. Just like a copy of the Watchtower or Awake might not
be considered important to a Catholic or mainline Protestant, even though
Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christian (but are not considered
Christian by Catholics and mainline Protestants).

Posting something about "bullies" within organizations. Or "bullies" within
associations, societies, clubs, etc... would be more appropriate.
[Disclaimer: I consider Nova Roma more than just a club or association, but I use this
as an example].

Again, Marinus. I think you are a good man. I am not accusing you of
malicious intent. I just think you could have used a different medium to illustrate
your distaste for the posting and communicating habits of those who oppose
you, or who you disagree with.

Vale:

G Modius Athanasius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#478

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Salve Gai Modi, et salvete quirites,

Gaius Modius Athanasius writes:

[snipping matters on which I think we're in fundamental agreement]

> I think that I am qualified in saying that there are no "Pagan Bullies" in
> Nova Roma.

I don't think anybody currently active on the mainlist meets that
definition, but I do think you'd agree we've had such people in
the past. They caused a lot of havoc while they were here.

> This article you referred to also has a section called "Book of Shadows for
> combating bullies and character assassins.":
> http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/spells.htm
>
> Do you advocate that citizens of Nova Roma cast spells on those who they
> consider a bully so the bully will "be their friend?"

No, I don't. I know that in antiquity practitioners of the Religio did
create curse tablets, but I'd hope that Romans of today would not resort
to such things. Furthermore, I think spell casting is a bad idea in
general, for reasons you no doubt know.

> Yes. Nova Roma is a Pagan Reconstructionist organization. But this article
> is clearly Wiccan (of a liberal variety at that) and has no place within
> Roman Reconstructionism -- IMO.

There is much in the article which I consider germane to NR. No, we do not
practice a religion like that of the author, but our people share many of
the same characteristics which the author identifies with pagan people in
genera.

> If it was sent to you by a Pagan Priestess
> perhaps that person should have posted it to the list themselves,
> and explain why?

She's not a member of Nova Roma, and only knows of it through me. She
is into several sorts of reconstruction, but in a more syncreatic way
than I think you or the other sacerdos would care for.

> I do agree that people on this forum should use more "decorum" and "tact."

Thank you.

> Just because something is labeled as "Pagan" doesn't mean it has merit by
> those within the Religio.

Of course not. I imagine that in all the time I've been here in NR I've
posted maybe three things that came my way from pagan friends outside of
NR. This just struck me as having sufficient timeliness and import that
I should pass it along, given what Troianus has been attempting to raise
awareness of.

> Again, Marinus. I think you are a good man.

Thank you. I think the same of you, and find your dedication admirable.

Vale,

-- Marinus

The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#480

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M Arminius Maior <marminius@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete
>
> --- deciusiunius <bcatfd@t...> escreveu: >
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius
> > Marinus <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > > Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in
> > > communication, there's this interesting website
> > > I just learned about from a friend who is not in
> > > Nova Roma.
> > > http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/
> [..]
> > If there was an article to read. The link you
> > provide is empty.
> > Palladius
>
> M.Arminius: Interesting, it worked for me. Its a very
> long and interesting article.
> I noticed that, occasionally, some links that worked
> for others doesnt worked for me, and vice versa. Do
> somebody has an explanation (who can we blame, yahoo
> services, local configuration etc.) ?

Well, I read on the site. When I saw Marinus' message the right half
of his link ran into the ad on the page, so when I clicked on the
link it said page does not exist. Someone else has since sent me the
entire link, the last few words were cut off when I viewed it off the
site.

So, perhaps it is the difference is between email and reading on the
website.

Vale,

Palladius

Salve Palladius!

Well, days spent trying to 'head her off at the pass' for naught!
I can verify that this is NOT political on Marinus' part - we just had lunch on Saturday.
Ah well, we tried to prevent this, we really did! Er, um, uh - enjoy the fireworks?

Vale
~ Servius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
Sent: Dec 15, 2003 11:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interpersonal dynamics in Pagan Communities

<html><body>


<tt>
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M Arminius Maior <marminius@y...> <BR>
wrote:<BR>

> Salvete<BR>
> <BR>
>  --- deciusiunius <bcatfd@t...> escreveu: ><BR>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius<BR>
> > Marinus <gawne@c...> wrote:<BR>
> > > Apropos the ongoing discussions about civility in<BR>
> > > communication, there's this interesting website<BR>
> > > I just learned about from a friend who is not in<BR>
> > > Nova Roma.<BR>
> > > <a href="http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/">http://www.geocities.com/pagan_bullies/</a><BR>
> [..] <BR>
> > If there was an article to read. The link you<BR>
> > provide is empty. <BR>
> > Palladius<BR>
> <BR>
> M.Arminius: Interesting, it worked for me. Its a very<BR>
> long and interesting article.<BR>
> I noticed that, occasionally, some links that worked<BR>
> for others doesnt worked for me, and vice versa. Do<BR>
> somebody has an explanation (who can we blame, yahoo<BR>
> services, local configuration etc.) ?<BR>

<BR>
Well, I read on the site. When I saw Marinus' message the right half <BR>
of his link ran into the ad on the page, so when I clicked on the <BR>
link it said page does not exist. Someone else has since sent me the <BR>
entire link, the last few words were cut off when I viewed it off the <BR>
site. <BR>
<BR>
So, perhaps it is the difference is between email and reading on the <BR>
website. <BR>
<BR>
Vale,<BR>
<BR>
Palladius<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br><br>
<tt>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
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</tt>
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Salve:

I have kept abreast of the list, initially out of a need for
instruction on the new voting system, and then, well, quite frankly, I
miss alot of you guys, and now why wouldn't I?

With respect to the link G. Equitius posted, and in response to some
of the comments of Sarcedos Modius, I want to throw a few thoughts in
here.

To begin with, all political speculations aside, Sar. Modi, this
article has a twin with one which I have that I will send you
privately. The common demoninator of the two writings is that veteran
Pagans are cautioning their following, basically, not to fall into the
same trap that formerly dominating religions have, in terms of arguing
doctrines in the absence of demonstrating behaviourly and otherwise,
the sincerity and/or earnestness of spirituality which should
accompany these pontifications.

And when you look at history it is so true. Can you 'make' anyone
believe as you do about the divine? Can you 'alienate' persons into
believing as you or I do? Well, only to the lip service extent.
Paganism in general, from what I have observed, has a mainspine
doctrine of tolerance. Simply, those who have other ways of viewing
spiritual matters are left to their own devices and thoughts unless
they are asked for our direction.

I am not an average "Christian", in that I'm afraid I don't interpret
things in the Bible exactly like perhaps those who may have criticized
you have. They tend to be very fundamentalist in their interpretation
and level of tolerance. If you wish, I would be more than willing to
digress on this with you in private. I know how you feel when these
people tell you you are 'going to hell', ahh, the 'hell' which I read
is prepared 'for the devil and his angels", and as a Roman Catholic,
lots of these fundies look at me like I have three heads, because my
roots are from Roman Paganism, which indeed, and proudly, they are.
Not that I 'stole' them; it was, I believe a natural evolution from
Romans keeping their 'old' traditions and adopting them with their
new. Hell, even Constantius, to some texts, held to his pagan dieties.

I guess why I get rather passionate about religious bickering is two
fold: I am a nurse and I have viewed so many family pathologies,
patient pathologies from religious and political wars, over
doctrinisms, scapegoating, it is truly pathetic, and I won't carry on
further. But it would truly bring a tear to anyone's eye here.
Second: I thought, or was hoping, and to some extent still am hoping,
that we could somehow come to a common ground, since the door to Nova
Roma has been opened to nonpractitioners, where salt and pepper could
exist on the same table, to the glory of the legacy of Rome,
encompassing her history, culture and spirituality.

There are many history books addressing the history and culture, and,
well, I'm afraid, that in the modern day, the spirituality and
religion is left up to you, Modi and your religious colleagues.

I guess relating it to the article in question, I must relay hope that
you will not fall into the trap of the early Catholic Church, the old
Church of England, and the current Greek Othodox Church in
pontificating theocracies at the expense of those who are not in those
faiths, with respect to their religious and sometimes civil rights.
The pagans in Greece have a very difficult time right now, and I think
this is a travesty, where Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker and their
emmulants get away with much.
Please do not fall into this trap. Most pontiffs I speak to from the
RR don't seem to be into this mindset, but over the past year, I have
found within Nova Roma, and increased need on behalf of certain
persons to forge an almost defensive mode about their paganism, where
I feel that is an inalienable right...but maybe I'm Canadian and I
don't understand American laws very well. I can imagine that the
current administration, the war in Iraq, Jerry Falwell's ridiculous
comments that you people were responsible for 9/11 have been rather
threatening and burdenson. He's a horses ass, and most Christians
with brains and an ounce of love are keenly aware of that. Those who
adhere to this type to fundamentalism are not in Nova Roma for more
than a week, I would say, if ever :)

Let me illustrate something please: If one of the collegium gave a
child a colouring book on the Roman virtues, and some tidbits about
the spiritual history of Rome, as opposed to handing out a tract
defaming more neohistoric religions such as Christianity and Islam,
Bahai or the like, for 'stealing' their holidays, and digressing on
their oppressions, do you not think the former would be a better
measure, and an alternative to the tactics which have been practised
for centuries, to heartless avail?

I've thought of this: Give a child a set of scenerios depicting
different situations...'colour the scene which best describes
Clementia' Another idea...this is a 'cornucopia'..many know it today
as the horn of plenty at thanksgiving. The Romans gave thanks to the
Goddess Ceres for their harvest of the fruits and vegetables in the
cornucopia. Now who the heck would be threatened by that? Does this
mean that every child you hand a colouring book to will convert to the
RR? No. But it will give them some strong thinking to do about
virtue and the historical roots to which their everyday 'rules of
behaviour' are assigned, courtesy of a Sarcedos of Nova Roma. Modius,
if we teach children how to 'love', much of the superfluous titledom
falls by the wayside, and regardless you have still assisted in
someone else's journey to the truth and the things that truly matter,
nonne? Nobody can 'make' people believe anything. But they will
remember perhaps the good Sarcedos who handed them a very interesting
and thought provoking colouring book, instead of listening to their
dad griping about the religious fanatic on the street corner or an
email list blaming him for the crimes of ancient Romans, Muslims or
British.


A few years ago my son said to me "Mom, I'm VERY interested in
Ancient Rome ESPECIALLY the GODS and GODESSES"...do you think I will
love him less? When he was very young, he was playing Caesar III, and
of course he was governing this provincia. I had a hoot watching
him...everytime he had a problem, he erected a temple, which taught me
something about my son...he is very spiritual...unfortunately, his
practicality was at an all time low..."Mom, I have all these temples,
why is the Senate telling me they might kick me out as Governor?"
Well, of course as a governor of NR at the time I was kicking myself
with hillarity.....I said to him, "Well, son, sometimes, humanity and
divinity just 'aren't' quite in sync....in Rome, and in other places."

I know you do your best Modius, but for what its worth, this is where
I am coming from.

My point of all this, is, that is what the authors of these articles
are caution the Pagan community not to do...fall into the same
tract-handing, letter of the law, sort of stuff that has woefully
failed in the past.

My best to you my dear, and please know, that I am not, nor was I ever
your spiritual enemy, but your amica in Rome.

Pompeia

Salve Servius,

> You were privately offered proof of Flavia Tullia's existence yet persisted in <these wild allegations that Marinus invented her.

Really? I recall geting 2 emails *after* my accusation that this woman exists. If Marinus's email did not threaten suing me (and within two hours of my original post), I would have apologized immediately.

< and now you are asking for sympathy as a victim!
Where did I ask for sympathy?

<and never have other than my desire to keep you from going too far with this as <a friend.

Ok so here it is: Marinus I'm sorry that I said that his woman didn't exist and that you created her, etc. I didn't care about her first email but the second one ticked me off prety royally. If you hadn't threatened me with a lawsuit I would have apologized within a few hours, having received 2 other emails from people that know this woman.

That said, if you say a simple 'sorry I was pissed off too and so threatened a lawsuit' then to me the subject is closed. We then both will have said something that we can chalk up to just letting a stupid situation get the best of us for the few moments that it takes to write a few emails.

And then maybe I can still get some of that pumpkin pie that you promised me for the next Roman Days.

Vale
Diana Moravia

Salvete,

On the name of Mother Concordia, I was reading the site about
Bullies, which translation still is not very clear for me.

I think the author has a small problem. For me, what he is describing
is an ´default´ as***le (yes, this word, finding ´cleaner´ words
would not have the same meaning. None will prosecute me, hum?).

Bullies are on everywhere. I wondering I´ve found lots of POLITICIAN
BULLIES as well throught life. Bullies even on my Condominium, on the
petty elections of the Condo´s administrator.

May I say ´bulieness´?

BULLIENESSUM IMPERATRIX MUNDI!

However, the author seems to put some dark paint on bulliess, so dark
that bullies seems the shadow of the Devil.

BULLIENESSUM SACRA FAMES!

Psiquically, while he ´demonizes´ bullies, perhaps he fells himself
cleaner of his dark-bully-side.

Or maybe he just is grieved.

We must addimit that the well-entablished traditional and
hierarchical religions have its own disposivites to deal with
bullies. ´Shut up´ and ´Roma locuta causa finita´... amen. The Pagan
comunities have not this, so it is most threaten by bullies´ bullets.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

Hi Marinus,

Oops, I'm reading through my webmail at work and didn't see your eamil below.

That said, apology accepted and my apology was given in my previous email. I'll send you a better written one offlist when I get home.

As far as polls go, I would like to say to everyone that votes for Marinus and Salix (or are planning to) that they are making a good choice.
vale,
Diana

>Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
>
>> Apologize for trying to bully me first and then we can take it from there.
>
>Very well. Diana, I apologise for communicating with you in a manner
>which resulted in your feeling threatened. I shall endeavor to avoid
>that in the future, and I ask that you please let me know if I ever
>say anything that causes you to feel threatened.
>
>As for the matter which brought this unfortunate exchange about, I
>have word from Censor M. Octavius Germanicus that he has verified
>the census data provided by Flavia Scholastica. Since you seem
>unwilling to accept that assurance from me, I recommend that you
>communicate with him to confirm the truth of the matter. Once you
>have done so, I hope you will be satisfied that Flavia Tullia is
>indeed a real person and not some construct of mine.
>
>Given that we are leading the polls in early returns, I would like
>to find a way to put this behind us, lest next year turn into a very
>long year for both of us.
>
>Vale,
>
>--
>Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
>Candidate for Consul
>http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Salve, and thank you for the warm welcome!

It's an honor to be part of this great Republic and the great Gens Modia. I look forward to getting to know all the wonderful people here.

Vale!

Julia Modia of Gens Modia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a provincial Magistrate, and Priest I issue these public oaths of service to our Republic.

Oath as Procurator of Lacus Magni

Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.)

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Procurator of Lacus Magni to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Procurator and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Oath as Flamen Primoris - Provincia Lacus Magni

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of the Religio Romana in Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the Roman Gods, the Religio Romana, the Senate and People of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) as a member of the Priesthood, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion. I swear to serve the Roman Gods to the best of my ability in both public and private life, and to pursue the Roman virtues as an integral part of my Priesthood.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Modius Athanasius (David Oliver Kling, Jr.) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Flamen Primoris - Provincia Lacus Magni to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma and the Great Province of Lacus Magni, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Flamen Primoris - Provincia Lacus Magni and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

---Salve Faustus:

"Condo" Lords? lol!! I can believe that. That might make an
interesting novel....Condo Lords....or a series...'war of the Condo
Lords'...return of the Condo Lords, Sons of the Condo Lords, Ex
daughters-in- law of the Condo Lords, .....kind of a satire...sort of
like the Trailer Park Boys,but with a little less scruffy a pesentation..

.now to enter a bit of Roman Flair into this we could call this first
book "insula",yunno the towering apartment buildings of
antiquita...tales entailing all the juicy little goings on, and power
struggles within the hierarchy of the insula....there. I've just
given you a way to make millions of dollars!!!!!!!!

Po




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> On the name of Mother Concordia, I was reading the site about
> Bullies, which translation still is not very clear for me.
>
> I think the author has a small problem. For me, what he is describing
> is an ´default´ as***le (yes, this word, finding ´cleaner´ words
> would not have the same meaning. None will prosecute me, hum?).

>
> Bullies are on everywhere. I wondering I´ve found lots of POLITICIAN
> BULLIES as well throught life. Bullies even on my Condominium, on the
> petty elections of the Condo´s administrator.
>
> May I say ´bulieness´?
>
> BULLIENESSUM IMPERATRIX MUNDI!
>
> However, the author seems to put some dark paint on bulliess, so dark
> that bullies seems the shadow of the Devil.
>
> BULLIENESSUM SACRA FAMES!
>
> Psiquically, while he ´demonizes´ bullies, perhaps he fells himself
> cleaner of his dark-bully-side.
>
> Or maybe he just is grieved.
>
> We must addimit that the well-entablished traditional and
> hierarchical religions have its own disposivites to deal with
> bullies. ´Shut up´ and ´Roma locuta causa finita´... amen. The Pagan
> comunities have not this, so it is most threaten by bullies´ bullets.
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus

I just realized I used my son's email.

Po

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius Drusus, Honorable Diana Moravia, et al. Salve.

Has anyone brought any charges against anyone in Nova Roma during this election? Are there any active lawsuits or inactive lawsuits or any legal actions of any kind going on in Nova Roma? Is anyone currently threatening anyone with blasphemy charges in Nova Roma? Is anyone threatening anyone with any kind of charge on the mainlist? Are there any active/current/recent disputes in our legal system about property? invalid wills? disinheritance? sui impuberes? sui iuris? Can the Illustrious Senator Drusus produce evidence of legal hijinks directed at another candidate in the current election?
Is the Honorable Diana Moravia implying that one of the other consular candidates has threatened a legal action against her off the mainlist? If so, could she put a copy of the email on the mainlist so we can all see what sort of illegitimati the citizenry of Nova Roma might be voting for under a false public image?
Why did this discussion about lawsuits and implied threats suddenly appear during the middle of election? Why are all of the posts phrased in such a way to avoid the mention of specific names but implies specific persons or groups of persons or de facto political affiliations?
As a private citizen concerned with justice, I would like to have some answers to questions such as these. These are important issues that need clear, concise, and forthright responses. Vale.

Salvete Quirites; et salve, F. Galeri.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

> Has anyone brought any charges against anyone in Nova Roma during
> this election? Are there any active lawsuits or inactive lawsuits
> or any legal actions of any kind going on in Nova Roma?

The official answer to those two questions from the praetores is NO.

I think that it was a rhetoric question, but just in case :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius Drusus et al. Salve.

I must agree with you that "there is NO way to stop people from coming to the conclusion that some charges are politically motivated" if citizens like yourself continually and publicly say that actions and posts are politically motivated. Each and everyone of my posts to you on this list two or three weeks ago earned a response from you that I was acting in the interests of my so-called (by You and only You) 'Patron' because of my membership in the Senior Consular Cohors. I finally resigned as an accensus due to some comments that had been made on the list by someone whom I held in some regard for at that time; for the record, that person was not you, sir.
If some public officials and magistrates in Nova Roma always make statements that everything done to them or their friends is politically motivated, some folks will come to believe it much like the old saw about "if you tell a big enough lie often enough, some people will start to believe it." My exchanges with you, sir, were never politically motivated on my end. I never questioned your love of Nova Roma, your record of service, or your piety. I had no political agenda with you but I did have a personal problem with you. Those problems concerned my perception of YOUR politically motivated slanders, innuendoes, insinuations, generalities, misdirection, and evasions. If I were a younger man, I might be tempted to study at the feet of such an obvious master of rhetoric as you so obviously are, sir.
I PERSONALLY believe that the Republic would best be served if all candidates (except those necessary for the function of public office during the elections) for the next two days so that the citizens can get the vote completed without the distractions of endorsements, paths of destruction, prosecutions, slanders, implications, and insinuations. To confirm my personal stand on this matter:

I give my oath before the Gods and by my honor that I, Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, assidui and candidate for Rogator, swear to make no public post of any kind on the Nova Roman mainlist for the period beginning at 9:30 a.m. CST, on Tuesday, ante XVII Kalends Janus 2756 AUC, being December 16, 2003 Gregorian for two days hence regardless of what is said to me or about me on this list. I will only respond to private emails sent to me by other citizens from their private email addresses or by those who will post an alternative email on a mainlist message. I give public plea and prayer that the current candidates (excepting only those posts relating to their duties during the current election)would also keep silent for the same period for the good of the Republic. If I violate this oath, may my tools fail me, my powers leave me, and my honor and word be dust in the wind. Ita est!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, salixastur@y... wrote:

> Salvete Quirites; et salve, F. Galeri.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
>
> > Has anyone brought any charges against anyone in Nova Roma during
> > this election? Are there any active lawsuits or inactive

lawsuits

> > or any legal actions of any kind going on in Nova Roma?
>
> The official answer to those two questions from the praetores is NO.

Just a minor point, but the official answer should be that there are
no *current* or *active* lawsuits going on in Nova Roma. Any possible
suits have either been dropped or not presented yet.

As for the threatened lawsuit by Marinus against Diana Moravia,
nothing has yet crossed our desks and hopefully nothing will.

> I think that it was a rhetoric question, but just in case :-).

Not entirely rhetorical my friend. ;-)

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,
Praetor

Oh Please!
Claims that an action isn't political is one of the oldest political
tatics in the book. We are in the midst of a political campaign right
now and had talk of legal action related to statements made during that
campaign and you are going to try to tell me that isn't political? There
have been several disputes over laws this year and you are trying to
tell me that the tatics used in those disputes aren't political?

Nova Roma is dominated by politics. The Politics of the Micronation is
an 800 pound Gorilla that shoves everything else to the side, and that
800 pound gorilla will shove his way into the court system and dominate
that too. Disputes that start out over a difference in ideas quickly get
grabbed by the Gorilla and turned into political jockying for political
advantage.

We have have dirty campiagns this year, and in the past. We have seen
plenty of cases where people are willing to use all kinds of tatics to
advance their political agenda, and there will be people who see charges
as a means of eliminating or embaressing a political foe, and will use
that tatic.

I Have on intention of attempting to mislead either the people or myself
by trying to pretend that the Gorilla dosen't exist. He does exist, and
he is shoving the Religio, Culture, Latin, the arts, everything that
most of us joined Nova Roma for, to the side.

Yes I make many political statements. I'm also honest enough to admit it
instead of misleading the people and myself about their nature. This is
a case where I'm being brutaly honest and not sugar coating the situation.
L. Sicinius Drusus


PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to the Illustrious Senator L. Sicinius
> Drusus et al. Salve.
>
> I must agree with you that "there is NO way to stop people from coming
> to the conclusion that some charges are politically motivated" if
> citizens like yourself continually and publicly say that actions and
> posts are politically motivated. Each and everyone of my posts to you
> on this list two or three weeks ago earned a response from you that I
> was acting in the interests of my so-called (by You and only You)
> 'Patron' because of my membership in the Senior Consular Cohors. I
> finally resigned as an accensus due to some comments that had been
> made on the list by someone whom I held in some regard for at that
> time; for the record, that person was not you, sir.
> If some public officials and magistrates in Nova Roma always make
> statements that everything done to them or their friends is
> politically motivated, some folks will come to believe it much like
> the old saw about "if you tell a big enough lie often enough, some
> people will start to believe it." My exchanges with you, sir, were
> never politically motivated on my end. I never questioned your love
> of Nova Roma, your record of service, or your piety. I had no
> political agenda with you but I did have a personal problem with you.
> Those problems concerned my perception of YOUR politically motivated
> slanders, innuendoes, insinuations, generalities, misdirection, and
> evasions. If I were a younger man, I might be tempted to study at the
> feet of such an obvious master of rhetoric as you so obviously are, sir.
> I PERSONALLY believe that the Republic would best be served if all
> candidates (except those necessary for the function of public office
> during the elections) for the next two days so that the citizens can
> get the vote completed without the distractions of endorsements, paths
> of destruction, prosecutions, slanders, implications, and
> insinuations. To confirm my personal stand on this matter:
>
> I give my oath before the Gods and by my honor that I, Flavius
> Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, assidui and candidate for Rogator, swear
> to make no public post of any kind on the Nova Roman mainlist for the
> period beginning at 9:30 a.m. CST, on Tuesday, ante XVII Kalends Janus
> 2756 AUC, being December 16, 2003 Gregorian for two days hence
> regardless of what is said to me or about me on this list. I will
> only respond to private emails sent to me by other citizens from their
> private email addresses or by those who will post an alternative email
> on a mainlist message. I give public plea and prayer that the current
> candidates (excepting only those posts relating to their duties during
> the current election)would also keep silent for the same period for
> the good of the Republic. If I violate this oath, may my tools fail
> me, my powers leave me, and my honor and word be dust in the wind. Ita
> est!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo has done some weird things in the past, but having to remember
that:

' is an apostrophe, and that:

"

is a quotation mark is giving me a headache.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> One also needs to remember interim results can be a
> bit fluid. When
> the results of the 1st Class are announced tommorow
> (I think, I'm
> getting a bit calendar crazy here with 101 deadlines
> at work and in
> Nova Roma) those results might not look like the
> final results as
> members of the 1st Classs who haven't voted by that
> deadline can still
> vote up until the close of the voting.

Another fair point - thanks; and of course thanks to
you and your colleagues for your ongoing hard work.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to Flavius Galerius Aurelianus
Secundus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I give public plea and prayer
> that the current candidates (excepting only those
> posts relating to their duties during the current
> election)would also keep silent for the same period
> for the good of the Republic.

I'm afraid I don't intend to do as you plead. I
absolutely agree that campaigning while the polls are
open is thoroughly undesirable. To introduce new
arguments, new information, new reasons to vote one
way or another after people have begun to vote can
only distort the results, for it effectively means
that those who vote earlier are deprived of
information available to those who vote later.

The introduction of this matter of the lawsuits at
this stage is particularly unfortunate: I wish it had
happened before the polls opened or after the polls
closed. Nonetheless, it has happened the way it has
happened, and I can only applaud and echo Tribune
Aventina's advice to voters not to let it affect their
vote.

So certainly I shall not be doing any campaigning
while the polls are open (frankly I have not been
doing any anyway), and I hope other candidates will do
the same. But I can't see any reason to refrain from
my ordinary engagement in public life, and I shall
continue to write on interesting and important topics
that are not directly related to the election. Issues
such as Senator Drusus' insinuation that lawsuits are
bad in principle, Equitius Troianus' call for civil
discourse, &c., are issues which can and should be
discussed as they arise, whether an election is going
on or not, and I hope candidates will continue to
discuss them just as I hope they will refrain from campaigning.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> Issues
> such as Senator Drusus' insinuation that lawsuits are
> bad in principle,

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

Having a means of settling disputes inside of Nova Roma is good.

That dosen't mean that this process can't be abused by people following
a political or personal agenda, it can be abused, and if we aren't
viligant it will be abused.

I'm also saying that citizens need to show some self restraint in filing
cases or threatening to file cases or we will tear Nova Roma apart in
petty personal and political fueds that get drug before the Praetors.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Salvete omnes,

Forget about bullying, political intrigue and backbiting in NR. I am
beginning to think this yahoo system will beat all of these problems
to the punch. The constant barrrage of pop up menus, notifications
etc have been freezing me up to the point where it takes 3 or more
tries to get into the NR mainlists. I have updated, installed pop
blockers and everything yet the nemisis is hanging around like
barbarians at the gates or excrement that won't flush!

At this point I'd like to know if others are having the same problems
and if some of our gurus in the computer world have any suggestions.
I never have this kind of problem in the MSN network.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve Julia and Gai!

It is always great news to hear about the arrival of a new citizen.
You have a great, honorable and learned paterfamilias Julia and I
hope you will have a fufilling time here in NR. Any of us here will
be more than happy to help you out if you have any questions!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Roman Citizen

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Gaius Modius Athanasius SPD
>
> Salvete:
>
> I have approved the request of a potential citizen to join Gens
Modia. I
> have approved her petition to join the great Gens Modia, and I
simply wait for
> the censors to approve her citizenship within our Republic.
However, in my eyes
> she is already a Modia!
>
> I would like to welcome Julia Modia (cant97@b...). May the Gods
> show her favor!
>
> Valete:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Pater Familias Gens Modia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Popups? I Haven't seen any of those in a long time. Try using Mozilla
and you'll forget that they exist.

L. Sicinius Drusus


mjk@... wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> Forget about bullying, political intrigue and backbiting in NR. I am
> beginning to think this yahoo system will beat all of these problems
> to the punch. The constant barrrage of pop up menus, notifications
> etc have been freezing me up to the point where it takes 3 or more
> tries to get into the NR mainlists. I have updated, installed pop
> blockers and everything yet the nemisis is hanging around like
> barbarians at the gates or excrement that won't flush!
>
> At this point I'd like to know if others are having the same problems
> and if some of our gurus in the computer world have any suggestions.
> I never have this kind of problem in the MSN network.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c0t6jno/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1071687186/A=1853619/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732>
>
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>
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>
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>
>

Salve Paulinus, et salvete quirites,

> I am
> beginning to think this yahoo system will beat all of these problems
> to the punch. The constant barrrage of pop up menus, notifications
> etc have been freezing me up to the point where it takes 3 or more
> tries to get into the NR mainlists. I have updated, installed pop
> blockers and everything yet the nemisis is hanging around like
> barbarians at the gates or excrement that won't flush!

Yes, I've noticed the same problem while trying to read
messages from the Yahoo website in recent weeks. It's awfully
annoying. I find that turning off java script and java helps
some, though that means some other sites won't resolve at all.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Ho there!

Again Yahoo shows my point! Apos's etc added to my previous dialogue
that make me look like a barbarous lout that cannot write simple
English!!!!


Quintus Lanius Paulinus

A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Lanius Paulinus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> Again Yahoo shows my point! Apos's etc added to my
> previous dialogue
> that make me look like a barbarous lout that cannot
> write simple
> English!!!!

I'm getting the messages e-mailed to me (with
surprisingly little delay), and the apostrophes and
everything else show up fine - it's only on the
website that they come out dodgy.

Another odd thing is that even the archives on the
website have had these ''' type things inserted
into them where they weren't before. I noticed because
I've just been archiving some messages from another
yahoogroups list from months ago, and they've all been
affected retroactively. Bizarre.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

> I would like to welcome Julia Modia (cant97@...). May the Gods
> show her favor!

Congratulations to your newest gensmate Julia Modia! She's made an excellent choice !
Vale,
Diana

Salve Uncle,

> As a private citizen concerned with justice, I would like to have some answers to questions such

as these. These are important issues that need clear, concise, and forthright responses.

Actually I think we have cleared this up already. As far as I am concerned (and Marinus too I'm
pretty sure) our rather unpleasant discussion is behind us. Sometimes a bit of arguing is the best
way to clear up misunderstandings although it may not seem that way at first.

That is why a lot of couples say that making up is the best part of arguing :-)

Vale,
Diana

On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 18:52, mjk@... wrote:

> . The constant barrrage of pop up menus, notifications
> etc have been freezing me up to the point where it takes 3 or more
> tries to get into the NR mainlists. I have updated, installed pop
> blockers and everything yet the nemisis is hanging around like
> barbarians at the gates or excrement that won't flush!
>
> At this point I'd like to know if others are having the same problems
> and if some of our gurus in the computer world have any suggestions.
> I never have this kind of problem in the MSN network.

Salvete,

or you could install Linux (free download if you've got a fast
connection or lots of time-3 CDs). You can just tell your web browser to
not do pop-ups. (Alternatives to Linux; FreeBSD, Solaris, NetBSD, Open
BSD. Plenty of choice around if you look).
I just used my wife's Win XP PC to get something for my daughter's
homework.(I was using the Linux box, she used the XP machine.). You
forget what a bloody aweful web browser Internet Explorer is. It's not
even very quick .Reminds me how good Linux is to use. </end rant>
Valete,
Gaius Cornelius Severus

Salve,

Si vales, valeo!

You are most kind. I am quite thrilled with my gens.

Vale!

Julia

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] New Citizen within Gens Modia


> I would like to welcome Julia Modia (cant97@...). May the Gods
> show her favor!

Congratulations to your newest gensmate Julia Modia! She's made an excellent choice !
Vale,
Diana


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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

My biggest complaint with Yahoo lately is that it has been randomly shutting
down my Yahoo Groups memberships claiming my e-mail address has been
bouncing. I go in, re-activate my account, and a day or two later it happens
again, but with a different Group. Also, once I re-activate, Group e-mails
still take may a few hours to begin being forwarded to me again. It's very
weird, and extremely irritating.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

P.S. this is the 2nd time I had to sent this, because guess what? My account
was bouncing again! >:(


-----Original Message-----
From: mjk@... [mailto:mjk@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:53 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Path Of Destruction (Yahoo?)

Salvete omnes,

Forget about bullying, political intrigue and backbiting in NR. I am
beginning to think this yahoo system will beat all of these problems
to the punch. The constant barrrage of pop up menus, notifications
etc have been freezing me up to the point where it takes 3 or more
tries to get into the NR mainlists. I have updated, installed pop
blockers and everything yet the nemisis is hanging around like
barbarians at the gates or excrement that won't flush!

At this point I'd like to know if others are having the same problems
and if some of our gurus in the computer world have any suggestions.
I never have this kind of problem in the MSN network.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Salvete!

Sorry, just a test message. Yahoo's acting weird again....

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, hgreetings.

> Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.
>
> Having a means of settling disputes inside of Nova
> Roma is good.
>
> That dosen't mean that this process can't be abused
> by people following
> a political or personal agenda, it can be abused,
> and if we aren't
> viligant it will be abused.

Well, I'm glad to hear that you support the existence
of the judicial system. :)

I really don't think abuse of the judicial system is a
danger. Filing a lawsuit is not abusing the system.
Filing a lawsuit politically motivated lawsuit is not
abusing the system. If such a lawsuit is groundless,
then it will fail; if it is well-founded, it will
succeed. Either way, there has been no miscarriage of
justice.

> I'm also saying that citizens need to show some self
> restraint in filing
> cases or threatening to file cases or we will tear
> Nova Roma apart in
> petty personal and political fueds that get drug
> before the Praetors.

I can see only one way in which lawsuits could be
damaging to the state, and that is if they resulted in
unjust convictions. This is made neither more nor less
likely by the prosecutor being politically motivated.
The motives of the prosecutor and the outcome of the
case are completely unconnected.

Perhaps you mean that the public discussion of
lawsuits is divisive. That may well be true: legal
cases should therefore be kept out of the pulic arena
unless they actually come to trial. But I can't see
what harm is done by people filing lawsuits quietly,
however many they file and whatever their motives.

Moreover, anyone who tries to use the courts as a
weapon will soon find that they will come out looking
foolish unless they have persuasive evidence against
whoever they want to accuse. If they have that
evidence, what harm is there in a prosecution? And if
they have not, there's no harm done to anyone but
themselves.

I don't think you need to worry about this issue,
Senator. We frankly have no evidence at all that any
lawsuits have been filed against anyone ever, let
alone a destructive tidal wave of vengeful
prosecutions about to overwhelm us. There are no reds
under the bed, no Greeks bearing gifts. By all means
be watchful; but don't panic.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Gratias Agere!

It's great to be here. I hope to contribute to the Republic as best I can.

Everyone, please bear with me as I learn. All I know about the deities is from the Greek perspective. I now know that the Roman deities had many differences from their Greek counterparts. I look forward to learning about the Religio, as I am an extremely spiritual person. I believe in what we're doing here and am honored to be a part of it.

Vale!

Julia Modia

----- Original Message -----
From: mjk@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 1:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: New Citizen within Gens Modia


Salve Julia and Gai!

It is always great news to hear about the arrival of a new citizen.
You have a great, honorable and learned paterfamilias Julia and I
hope you will have a fufilling time here in NR. Any of us here will
be more than happy to help you out if you have any questions!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Roman Citizen


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Gaius Modius Athanasius SPD
>
> Salvete:
>
> I have approved the request of a potential citizen to join Gens
Modia. I
> have approved her petition to join the great Gens Modia, and I
simply wait for
> the censors to approve her citizenship within our Republic.
However, in my eyes
> she is already a Modia!
>
> I would like to welcome Julia Modia (cant97@b...). May the Gods
> show her favor!
>
> Valete:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Pater Familias Gens Modia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Aerial photo gallery of Roman Ruins in England":

http://www.lastrefuge.co.uk/images/html/aerials_UK_historical_sites/roman/index.htm

This site has excellent aerial photographs by Adrian Warren and Dae
Sasitom of Wroxeter, Hadrian's Wall, and Richborough.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete omnes,

I hope I haven't misread any previous posts but Nova Roma is
international. What is considered grounds for what I call frivilous
lawsuits in the US may not work in Canada, Mexico or Europe. Also my
opinion given here in NR will not cause anyone to lose their
macronational jobs, families, social standongs or whatever. Because
someone mouths off in Germany or Italy to a NR senator or another
magistrate in the US, I doubt you'll find too many lawyers willing to
go to the trouble and expense of crossing swords with legal systems
they no little or nothing about.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sicinius Drusus and
> all citizens and peregrines, hgreetings.
>
> > Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.
> >
> > Having a means of settling disputes inside of Nova
> > Roma is good.
> >
> > That dosen't mean that this process can't be abused
> > by people following
> > a political or personal agenda, it can be abused,
> > and if we aren't
> > viligant it will be abused.
>
> Well, I'm glad to hear that you support the existence
> of the judicial system. :)
>
> I really don't think abuse of the judicial system is a
> danger. Filing a lawsuit is not abusing the system.
> Filing a lawsuit politically motivated lawsuit is not
> abusing the system. If such a lawsuit is groundless,
> then it will fail; if it is well-founded, it will
> succeed. Either way, there has been no miscarriage of
> justice.
>
> > I'm also saying that citizens need to show some self
> > restraint in filing
> > cases or threatening to file cases or we will tear
> > Nova Roma apart in
> > petty personal and political fueds that get drug
> > before the Praetors.
>
> I can see only one way in which lawsuits could be
> damaging to the state, and that is if they resulted in
> unjust convictions. This is made neither more nor less
> likely by the prosecutor being politically motivated.
> The motives of the prosecutor and the outcome of the
> case are completely unconnected.
>
> Perhaps you mean that the public discussion of
> lawsuits is divisive. That may well be true: legal
> cases should therefore be kept out of the pulic arena
> unless they actually come to trial. But I can't see
> what harm is done by people filing lawsuits quietly,
> however many they file and whatever their motives.
>
> Moreover, anyone who tries to use the courts as a
> weapon will soon find that they will come out looking
> foolish unless they have persuasive evidence against
> whoever they want to accuse. If they have that
> evidence, what harm is there in a prosecution? And if
> they have not, there's no harm done to anyone but
> themselves.
>
> I don't think you need to worry about this issue,
> Senator. We frankly have no evidence at all that any
> lawsuits have been filed against anyone ever, let
> alone a destructive tidal wave of vengeful
> prosecutions about to overwhelm us. There are no reds
> under the bed, no Greeks bearing gifts. By all means
> be watchful; but don't panic.
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
__

> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry!

Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be.
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Salve

This is very interesting. Perhaps such a Sodalitas can
help us to improve our section about provincial maps
in the future, adding a "Roma Antiqua" flavor,
perhaps.

--- Scriboni89@... escreveu: > Salve Cives,

> I was thinking of starting a new sodalitas. The
> Sodalitas Geographia. It
> would be for the study of the Geography etc of
> Ancient Rome and the Ancient
> World! I have quite an interest in maps and
> geography. I have studied the
> provinces of Rome and I think I have quite a good
> knowledge of not just Roman but
> European geography. So I would like to find some
> people who would be interested
> in this and who would like to help me make this a
> new Sodalitas.

[..]

> BENE.VALE.

[..]

> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.

Vale
M.Arminius


______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail: 6MB, anti-spam e antivírus gratuito! Crie sua conta agora:
http://mail.yahoo.com.br

Salvete,

I just recently finished H.H. Scullard's A History of the Roman World 753 to
146 BC (which I thoroughly enjoyed!), and I'm thinking about dropping the
$30 to get his From the Gracchi to Nero: A History of Rome from 133 B.C. to
A.D. 68. I'm wondering if anyone here has read it and can recommend it? (or
not, as the case may be!)

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M Arminius Maior wrote:

>
> Salve
>
> This is very interesting. Perhaps such a Sodalitas can
> help us to improve our section about provincial maps
> in the future, adding a "Roma Antiqua" flavor,
> perhaps.

Scribonius and I have created a mailing list and you
(and everyone else) are welcome to come join in the fun.
Send a blank e-mail to:

SodalitasGeographica-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Are either of the censors online right now?


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1489

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

The citizen with the following voter tracking number has a malformed or
inaccurate voter code:

#1491

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is given, and if you
are unsure of your new code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Salvete!

As my message replying to message 18190 from DMA was lost, strayed, or stolen, I
shall re-post it.

Valete,

Flavia

[The following was posted to the main list c. 1:20 a.m. EST 15 December 2003, but never
appeared. It does not, therefore, reflect more recent developments in this matter. Pars
Secunda, originally sent together with Pars Prima, will follow].

Flavia Tullia quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam dicit,
praesertim Dianae Moraviae Aventinae.

Roman Days 2003 certainly have become much more controversial than their host
legion ever intended, for instead of tales of marching demonstrations and the like, we
now have reports that one of the attendees was an "imaginary being," much in the spirit
of Harvey the Rabbit.

Diana, you have far exceeded the skepticism of the original Doubting Thomas, for he
merely questioned the post-mortem existence and the wounds which caused the death of
the individual in question, whereas you question the flesh-and-blood existence of a living,
breathing, mortal (and fallible) person, who moreover did not originate in the Andromeda
Galaxy, the Valles Marineris, or even the Tycho crater.

Let's see if you remember Roman Days. It was no mere rain, but a flood warning,
which cancelled all scheduled activities on Saturday. It was absolutely teeming, which is
why everyone huddled in the tents or the Marietta Mansion. I went to the first tent, which
was occupied by several gentlemen in tunicae and togae, including James Mathews, who
was holding forth on matters gladiatorial, and a very rotund gentleman who was not
present on Sunday. There were a couple of other togati there, and Julie Brooks of La
Wren's Nest popped in from time to time to chat. I spoke with Mr. Mathews for a while,
then sought out Quintus Darius, with whom I had been corresponding.

As I recall, Quintus had either gone into the Mansion, or was on his way there, when I
met him. Everyone stowed his or her gear amid the pipes of the basement furnace room,
and several of us were chatting, while some children ran around--Olivia, the elevenish
daughter of the host legion's commander, and a boy named Ian, who appeared to be at
least a couple of years younger. In addition to Quintus, I spoke with Jane Walker,
Joanne Shaver (briefly; she will probably not remember), and some other ladies, and
listened as Quintus discussed a topic very dear to his heart, and those of his mostly-
gentlemanly audience. I also examined the numerous displays of Roman foods and
other cultural items tucked into the nooks and crannies of the Marietta Mansion in which
we had taken refuge from the downpour, but left early, as I had promised assistance to a
local friend who had accompanied me.

Sunday was far nicer, if not nice, and all activities went on as scheduled. In between
events, I spoke with Sean Edwards and George Metz, as well as Steve Peffley and
Asellina. The legionary demonstrations were quite impressive, especially the last one
during which the assembled legions marched upon the spectators with weapons drawn,
chanting "ROMA! ROMA! ROMA! " Steve Peffleys' demonstration of slingshots and non-
returning boomerangs was also interesting, though he was rather disappointed in some
elements of his performance that day, and many of us chuckled at the shield he had made
(and later shredded with his falx), taking off Campbell's Soup--Campbell's Chvnky
Legionary Soup, with Lorica Bits for Added Nutrition, though these may not be the exact
words. For us ladies, there was also a fashion show conducted by Emilie Amt, featuring
(among others) a Roman bride, a gentleman attired as a Greek, wearing a chlamys and a
Phrygian cap borrowed from one of the merchants, as well as at least one senator and a
matron, while the gents in particular enjoyed the gladiatorial combat.

I believe that I noticed you on Sunday, dressed in your black belly dance outfit, for it
was quite striking. You are rather well-endowed, and your somewhat close-fitting top
brought this out. You were not the only person in somewhat unusual dress, or otherwise
conspicuous, for there was a couple/family of Mennonites (I believe), and a black family
whose underage son wanted to buy a pointy toy from La Wren's Nest, a desire vetoed by
both the merchant and the lad's parents.

Quirites, am I real, and was I at Roman Days this past June? Some of you must have
been there, for I saw other persons later identified to me as Roman citizens.

[end of first section; close added for courtesy]

Vale pro tempore, Diana; valete pro tempore, Quirites.

Flavia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, flavia@l... wrote:

> Salvete!
>
> As my message replying to message 18190 from DMA was lost,
>strayed, or stolen, I shall re-post it.

It's possible with Yahoo it never got to us, one never knows. The
only way it could be "stolen," I suppose is for someone to have
physical control of your computer. If the email reaches the
moderators it goes to quite a number of people on our staff, there
would be a record of your message not being approved. I can guarantee
you it never reached the moderators as I am sure my colleague can
attest. I'm sure we would remember any post by you as you have only
posted 4 or 5 times since joining Nova Roma.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Praetor

Salve,

I just noticed, that I forgot to write down my tracking number, when I did my voting!!

What should I do? Can you check if my vote was correct, or should I just try voting again?

Thanks for helping me out on this!!

Valete bene, Tiberius Annaeus Otho



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cai Minuci,

> I'm thinking about dropping the
> $30 to get his From the Gracchi to Nero: A History
> of Rome from 133 B.C. to
> A.D. 68. I'm wondering if anyone here has read it
> and can recommend it? (or
> not, as the case may be!)

I recommend it. It encompasses quite a large time
period so nothing is covered in too great a detail,
but it is still better than most and there is some
great analysis in there too.

Make sure you get the latest edition, there have been
quite a few.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Ave Hadriane,

>I just recently finished H.H. Scullard's A History of the Roman World 753 to
>146 BC (which I thoroughly enjoyed!), and I'm thinking about dropping the
>$30 to get his From the Gracchi to Nero: A History of Rome from 133 B.C. to
>A.D. 68. I'm wondering if anyone here has read it and can recommend it? (or
>not, as the case may be!)

I suggest you to buy the second book too. I read three times the whole work (in Italian) and
I enjoyed it very very very much! Scullard is one of the first authors I read, and he fed my primitive
love for Rome. I especcially appreciated the virtual tour in Rome of chapter XVI (first book).
The second book is like the first one, I prefer the first not because it has been written in a better way
but because the Republican history is more exciting than the Imperial one.

In Italy I bought the two books at nearly 15 Euro, maybe you could find it at lower price.

Vale bene
Caius Ianus Mediolanensis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[The following is the second, shorter, portion of a post sent in the wee hours of
15 December 2003, responding to message 18190, etc., from DMA, which
was apparently lost in transit. The salutation is added for courtesy as the post
was divided.]

Flavia Tullia quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit, praesertim Dianae Moraviae Aventinae.

[Diana,] Your post also questioned the mental health and/or integrity of
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, who is not only the propraetor of the relevant
province, but also the junior curule aedile and an aide to the senior consul.
Moreover, in his real, macro-world life, he is a scientist, to wit, an astronomer,
who has worked on the Hubble Space Telescope and the Far Ultraviolet
Spectroscopic Explorer, among other things, who teaches college astronomy,
and apparently writes articles for astrophysical journals. Do you think that
Harvey the Rabbit lives at NASA? Gnaeus Equitius thinks in the logical, fact-
based manner one would expect from a scientist, and does not have any
imaginary correspondents, though he probably has a good many real ones.

You seem obsessed with my picture, or lack thereof. Why are you so
interested in my physical appearance? Is it because you want to become my
friend, and want to recognize me when and if you see me? I hardly think so.
Could you have something else in mind, something less benign? I never set
out to harm you in any way, only to note that I didn't think that you were
consular material at this time, and to give my reasons for this assessment. I
haven't had such an exchange with anyone since I was in high school.

As for my apology, what I wrote concerning the misunderstanding
regarding the charge of impiety was quite satisfactory for Pontifex and Flamen
Quirinalis Gaius Iulius Scaurus, as you may have noted from his post to the
main list. I have not yet addressed the other points he made in his long post
to me, but hope to do so shortly. My apology was sincerely intended, and I
regret that you didn't see it that way. I truly deplore this misunderstanding,
and having hurt your feelings in this matter, and ask you to reconsider the
genuineness of my efforts at placating you. If for no other reason than this
distressing present situation, I know exactly how it feels to have one's
motivations misinterpreted. I am sorry, too, that you had come to this country
(which I understand is your native land) for such a sad and tragic occasion,
and moreover were suffering from an eye ailment, but, though I have been
blamed for many things in this regard, this at least no one can lay at my
doorstep.

Vale, Diana; valete, Quirites.

Flavia

Salve,

Come and Join the Sodalitas Geographiae and learn about Graeco-Roman
Geogpraphy. At: http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/SodalitasGeographica/




BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tullia,

> I believe that I noticed you on Sunday, dressed in your black belly dance outfit, for it
> was quite striking.

You must be mistaking me for someone else then since I do not even own a black belly dancing outfit.

Vale,
Diana

Salve Tullia,

> [Diana,] Your post also questioned the mental health and/or integrity of
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, who is not only the propraetor of the relevant
> province, but also the junior curule aedile and an aide to the senior consul.

I think that since both Marinus and I have both already apologized to eachother, continuing this
thread would be rather counter-productive.
Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salve Flavia Tullia,

I have never doubted your existence. However, it is apparent that
you seem determined to engage in a campaign of attrition against one
of Nova Roma's most valued and dedicated citizens. Such negative
campaigning does not sit well with me, as I'm sure it does not with
many others. You do yourself, and those you seek to support, a grave
disservice.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> I really don't think abuse of the judicial system is a
> danger. Filing a lawsuit is not abusing the system.
> Filing a lawsuit politically motivated lawsuit is not
> abusing the system. If such a lawsuit is groundless,
> then it will fail; if it is well-founded, it will
> succeed. Either way, there has been no miscarriage of
> justice.

This may not be what the Senator intended to say, but I can see one
possible cause for concern here. That is to say, not only might lawsuits
be filed due to political motivation (which, as Cordus has pointed out,
would not be problematic in itself), but that they might be resolved
according to the same. In other words, that people might vote for guilt
or otherwise of the defendant according not to their view of the facts but
to their respective political affiliations. I hope that this will never
happen, but it is possible, and it is worth taking a look at whether we
have enough safeguards built in to guard against this.

Gaia Fabia Livia
(not campaigning, just chatting)

Salve Tullia,

< and a very rotund gentleman who was not present on Sunday.

That 'rotund' gentleman of whom you speak was quite charming with a bright smile. Being a larger
than average man does not make him deserving of your snide comment.

< You are rather well-endowed, and your somewhat close-fitting top brought this out.

Maybe next we can discuss the penis sizes of the male candidates ?

<You were not the only person in somewhat unusual dress, or otherwise

> conspicuous, for there was a couple/family of Mennonites (I believe), and a black family

Since when is being black 'conspicuous'?

Vale,
Diana Moravia

Salvete Flavia et omnes,

With regards to these NR lawsuits, I think its about time that we all
get with reality. Unless someone is trying to peddle kiddie porn or
something very drastic, it is not worth our time or effort. As
indicated on past posts, there are people here with great credentials
and talents. You try bringing in lawsuits they'll just say screw it,
I'm out of here and not only do we lose a citizen but the
satisfaction of seeing any justice done anyway.

At this stage NR is a voluntary organization which has a lot of
growing to do. Many of our citizens' times and could be better spent
making money with their talents rather than contributing to NR. I do
not think it is in our interests to piss them off.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia" <livia@s...>
wrote:

> > I really don't think abuse of the judicial system is a
> > danger. Filing a lawsuit is not abusing the system.
> > Filing a lawsuit politically motivated lawsuit is not
> > abusing the system. If such a lawsuit is groundless,
> > then it will fail; if it is well-founded, it will
> > succeed. Either way, there has been no miscarriage of
> > justice.
>
> This may not be what the Senator intended to say, but I can see one
> possible cause for concern here. That is to say, not only might

lawsuits

> be filed due to political motivation (which, as Cordus has pointed

out,

> would not be problematic in itself), but that they might be resolved
> according to the same. In other words, that people might vote for

guilt

> or otherwise of the defendant according not to their view of the

facts but

> to their respective political affiliations. I hope that this will

never

> happen, but it is possible, and it is worth taking a look at

whether we

> have enough safeguards built in to guard against this.
>
> Gaia Fabia Livia
> (not campaigning, just chatting)

Today is the first day of Saturnalia, ante diem XVI Kal. Ianvarias,
MMDCCLVI A.V.C. Today is nefastus publicus, so no work can take
place, still, our virtual Forum is packed.

Outside the Aedes Saturni, oldest temple in the Forum, priests have
set up a lectisternium, or dining couch, for the venerable Saturn, by
the Ara Saturni, Saturn's altar.

A great banquet, the convivium publicum, will be spread following the
sacrifice, and the men standing by to observe the sacrifice are
restive, eager to throw off the toga for the more festive synthesis,
or dining outfit. A few are jiggling tali, or knucklebones, in the
sinus of their togas, ready for the ban on public gambling to be
lifted.

... so opens the first day of Catullus' "Best of Days!"

Io Saturnalia!

Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete,

Sorry about the caps in the subject.

The trials and tribulations of using dialup. This morning while
downloading email someone called at the very end of downloading 46
messages. Somehow that screwed up the entire download and none of
them but a few are readable and those are incomplete. As far as I can
tell there are emails from Silanus, Moravia, Servius Equitius, G.
Salix Astur, G. Minucius Hadrianus and probably others.

Please, any of you who sent me email between 2:30 a.m. EST and 12
noon EST, please resend your email.

Dialup...and no cable isn't even an option where I live!

Valete,

Palladius

Salve Deci Iuni,

Darn, I sent you the winning numbers of nexts weeks Vermont State
lottery (top prize $30), but I can't remember for the life of me
what they are :-)

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> Salvete,
>
> Sorry about the caps in the subject.
>
> The trials and tribulations of using dialup. This morning while
> downloading email someone called at the very end of downloading 46
> messages. Somehow that screwed up the entire download and none of
> them but a few are readable and those are incomplete. As far as I

can

> tell there are emails from Silanus, Moravia, Servius Equitius, G.
> Salix Astur, G. Minucius Hadrianus and probably others.
>
> Please, any of you who sent me email between 2:30 a.m. EST and 12
> noon EST, please resend your email.
>
> Dialup...and no cable isn't even an option where I live!
>
> Valete,
>
> Palladius

Since no one is at work today I see the head count has packed the Forum.
Perfect time to give a speech. So: Io Saturnalia!

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:

>
> Since no one is at work today I see the head count has packed the

Forum.

> Perfect time to give a speech. So: Io Saturnalia!
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

...Shortest speech on record from the Rostra! ;-)


Io Saturnalia, Consular civesque NovaRomani!

Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete quirites, et salve Julilla,

Julilla Sempronia Magna writes:

> Today is the first day of Saturnalia, ante diem XVI Kal. Ianvarias,
> MMDCCLVI A.V.C. Today is nefastus publicus, so no work can take
> place,

Oh, I wish... Pity the rest of the world doesn't follow
the practice.

> Io Saturnalia!

Io Saturnalia! Let the revelry commence.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Candidate for Consul
http://www.villaivlilla.com/equitius-for-consul/index.html

Salvete,

Could anyone who sent me email since this request please send one
more time? While trying to recover those 46 messages, I ended up
inadvertently deleting this entire past week's worth of email,
including a few that were sent today! Everything is working now
though. <I hope>

Valete,

Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, bcatfd@t... wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Sorry about the caps in the subject.
>
> The trials and tribulations of using dialup. This morning while
> downloading email someone called at the very end of downloading 46
> messages. Somehow that screwed up the entire download and none of
> them but a few are readable and those are incomplete. As far as I
can
> tell there are emails from Silanus, Moravia, Servius Equitius, G.
> Salix Astur, G. Minucius Hadrianus and probably others.
>
> Please, any of you who sent me email between 2:30 a.m. EST and 12
> noon EST, please resend your email.
>
> Dialup...and no cable isn't even an option where I live!
>
> Valete,
>
> Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, danedwardsuk@y... wrote:

> Salve Deci Iuni,
>
> Darn, I sent you the winning numbers of nexts weeks Vermont State
> lottery (top prize $30), but I can't remember for the life of me
> what they are :-)

Uh-huh. ;-) As someone I know says, it was so profound it would have
changed both our lives and can't be repeated. That $30 would have
gone a long ways!

Vale,

Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Tullia,
>
> > I believe that I noticed you on Sunday, dressed in your black

belly dance outfit, for it

> > was quite striking.
>
> You must be mistaking me for someone else then since I do not even

own a black belly dancing outfit.

>
> Vale,
> Diana

Salve,

Just for the record. A picture of Diana's outfit is available at:

http://users.pandora.be/GensMoravia/Senators&aTribune.jpg

Unless I've suddenly gone color blind, it appears to be a maroon with
white trim top, a full length white skirt with a black belt probably
no more than 3" in width with some golden ornamentation. I've seen
women clad (or unclad to be exact) in far more scandalous attire at
the beach this past summer. In fact the Senator's are showing more leg
than Diana!

Vale,

Calvus

Salvete,

As of Dec 17th 1800 Roman Time the period where only the 1st Class
centuries (Centuries 1 thru 14) were permitted to vote in the Comitia
Centuriata ended. At this time ALL civis are eligible to vote in the
Comitia Centuriata.

If you have previously voted and are not assigned to Centuries 1 thru
14 if your vote was not valid and you'll need to vote again in order
to have cast a valid ballot for the final computations.

If you are completely confused by all of this and just aren't sure
whether or not your vote in the Comitia Centuriata was valid, then
please vote again. If your first vote was valid the second vote will
be marked invalid and not used in the final computations. If your
first vote was invalid, the second ballot will be considered valid and
used in the final computations.

You do not need to revote in either the Comitia Plebis Tributa or the
Comitia Populi Tributa.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator

Salvete Quirites!

I wish all citizens IO SATURNALIA!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here' a link to the "Epigraphische Datenbank Heidelberg (Heidelberg
Epigraphical Databank)":

http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/institute/sonst/adw/edh/

This site, created by Prof. Géza Alfödy, is a searchable database of
Latin inscriptions, primarily from the West. The site is available in
German and English.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

My sister is still in hospital, looking forward to a long recovery,
but, Dis volentibus, she will recover.

I would like to thank all those whose prayers and support have been
such a comfort to me and my family.

Gratias vobis ago.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Eheu Quirites;
Tullia Flavia just stop this it is extremely annoying and you are
not the fashion or body police; Diana Aventina be a Roman, be stoical
and wear a stola.
I really cannot take any more of this absurd discussion..
Io Saturnalia!
Pomponia Flavia Vera

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@p...>
wrote:

> Salve Tullia,
>
> < and a very rotund gentleman who was not present on Sunday.
>
> That 'rotund' gentleman of whom you speak was quite charming with a

bright smile. Being a larger

> than average man does not make him deserving of your snide comment.
>
> < You are rather well-endowed, and your somewhat close-fitting top

brought this out.

>
> Maybe next we can discuss the penis sizes of the male candidates ?
>
> <You were not the only person in somewhat unusual dress, or

otherwise

> > conspicuous, for there was a couple/family of Mennonites (I

believe), and a black family

>
> Since when is being black 'conspicuous'?
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia

Salve Palladius,

<Please, any of you who sent me email between 2:30 a.m. EST and 12
<noon EST, please resend your email.

Again? This usually only happens to us when the Yahoo Chat phone cuts out.

I wrote informing you of some profound things that would have changed your life for the better as
well as the answers to all of life's most important questions: Why are we here? Why were we born?
Why does the ocean look clear when you scoop some up in your hands but looks blue when standing on
the shore looking at it?

Once again you missed it. Your loss.. And well you know how I hate to repeat myself :-)

Vale,
Diana

> Uh-huh. ;-) As someone I know says, it was so profound it would have
> changed both our lives and can't be repeated.

LOL! I've just read this! God Bless you and your perfect memory!

Io Saturnalia!

The newer citizens may want to have a look at our website where Saturnalia is described:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/saturnalia.html

Here are a few more that you may want to take a look at. I haven't read the sites in detail yet:

A Saturnalia ritual. The website states that the primary sources for this ritual are Macrobius'
Saturnalia (Bk. I, Chs. 7, 8, 10, 11) and Scullard's Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic
(pp. 205-7). I'm curious as to our Pontifices opinion of the ritual.
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/Saturnalia.html

Here is the full text of Macrobius' Saturnalia on Lacus Curtius in Latin
http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Macrobius/Saturnalia/home.html

This one is from Selena Fox and is basically just a list of attributes of the holiday.
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/SaturnaliaInfo.html

Valete,
Diana Moravia

Salve Romani,

I was wondering. Does anyone know suppliers of Roman Pottery, Couches,
Beds, Oil Lamps, Wall Paper (Of the four Pompeian Styles), or anything else that
would be found in a home.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.DI.ROMA.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
DI.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.ET.NOVA.ROMA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:

> Salve Tullia,
>
> > [Diana,] Your post also questioned the mental health and/or

integrity of

> > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, who is not only the propraetor of the

relevant

> > province, but also the junior curule aedile and an aide to the

senior consul.

>
> I think that since both Marinus and I have both already apologized
>to eachother, continuing this thread would be rather counter-
>productive.

I agree and it is clear many others do also. Enough energy has been
expended reading these messages from Flavia Tullia etc, and replying
to them. All that needs to be said has been said, I would say this
should be your final word on this matter.

Vale,

Palladius

Salvete!!!

Io Saturnalia!

Let the merriment begin!!!!!

Bene valete in pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Minucius Hadrianus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I'll add a third voice to those recommending
Scullard's 'Gracchi to Nero'. And perhaps since it's
Saturnalia I'll be excused a little name-dropping -
the quotation on the back cover saying it's 'the best
introduction to the period' is from Dr. Miriam
Griffin, who was my tutor at Oxford, and I can tell
you from experience that she knows what she's talking
about. :)

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Lanius Paulinus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

> I hope I haven't misread any previous posts but Nova
> Roma is
> international. What is considered grounds for what I
> call frivilous
> lawsuits in the US may not work in Canada, Mexico or
> Europe. Also my
> opinion given here in NR will not cause anyone to
> lose their
> macronational jobs, families, social standongs or
> whatever. Because
> someone mouths off in Germany or Italy to a NR
> senator or another
> magistrate in the US, I doubt you'll find too many
> lawyers willing to
> go to the trouble and expense of crossing swords
> with legal systems
> they no little or nothing about.

I'm not quite clear what you're saying, but I think
perhaps you've misunderstood: we're not talking about
anyone taking cases to macronational courts. Obviously
for someone to sue someone else in a macronational
court over NR matters would in most cases be not only
extremely petty but seriously damaging to the
republic. But I don't see any harm in citizens
settling their disputes in NR courts - better they
settle them out of court, but if not, better in our
courts than not at all.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Fabia Livia and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> ... not only might lawsuits
> be filed due to political motivation (which, as
> Cordus has pointed out,
> would not be problematic in itself), but that they
> might be resolved
> according to the same. In other words, that people
> might vote for guilt
> or otherwise of the defendant according not to their
> view of the facts but
> to their respective political affiliations.

That's a fair point. I'd be inclined to say that it's
pretty unlikely to happen that way, since the lex
Salica Iudiciaria allows for selection of a panel of
disinterested iudices (where appropriate). But it is a
danger, as it is in any court in any country: the
trick is to have good praetors who will tell the
iudices to decide on the evidence and nothing else,
and a general understanding among all citizens that
politics is to be kept out of the courtroom.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:

> Salve Romani,
>
> I was wondering. Does anyone know suppliers of Roman Pottery,

Couches, Beds, Oil Lamps, Wall Paper (Of the four Pompeian Styles),
or anything else that would be found in a home.

Salve! Here are some links to get you or anyone else started on a
grand Saturnalia buying spree:

LAMPS
www.ancientlamps.com

Great reproductions, $8 US each

GLASSWARE

wonderful mould-blown beakers, freeblown glass, mosaic glass,
engraved glass, incredible!!
http://www.romanglassmakers.co.uk/

Other free-blown Roman jugs:
http://www.scanglas.se/en/indexe.htm

Pottery and many other goodies (I'm dying to order from these folk)
http://www.forumtraiani.de/index.htm

Furniture or wallpaper?? Eheu!!! Bonam Fortunam!!!
--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete Omnes,

Yes it's off topic, but I can't let today pass without noting that 100
years ago today the Wright Brothers realized a dream that had tantalized
mankind since the time of Daedalus, flight. Today on the 100 anniversary
another milestone was reached. SpaceShipOne made it's first powered
flight becoming the first privately financed manned aircraft or rocket
to break the sound barrier reaching a speed of Mach 1.2 and an altitude
of 68,000 feet.

Congratulations to the Wrights and to the folks at Scaled Composite for
reaching these milestones 100 years apart.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Salve Ladies

I was at Roman Days, both Saturday and Sunday ( selling the Eagle) and I would fit the description of a very rotund gentleman. However in a past post I said that I a well fed Roman Senator more than of a legion.

I like that description better " a well fed Roman Senator". Are there any other kind?

It was a wet but great weekend I can not wait until next years!!!

Long live the XX and XXIV Legions

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Dies Romanae MMIII, pars prima (perdita)


Salve Tullia,

< and a very rotund gentleman who was not present on Sunday.

That 'rotund' gentleman of whom you speak was quite charming with a bright smile. Being a larger
than average man does not make him deserving of your snide comment.

< You are rather well-endowed, and your somewhat close-fitting top brought this out.

Maybe next we can discuss the penis sizes of the male candidates ?

<You were not the only person in somewhat unusual dress, or otherwise
> conspicuous, for there was a couple/family of Mennonites (I believe), and a black family

Since when is being black 'conspicuous'?

Vale,
Diana Moravia


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD

Roughly eleven hours ago, voting in the Comitia Centuriata was opened to
all cives. Everyone who has not yet voted may do so until 18:01 Rome
time on the 22nd of December.

The results of voting in centuria I through XIV are as follows:

Censor: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Consul: Gnaeus Salix Astur
Diana Moravia Aventina and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus are tied
Praetor: Marcus Arminius Maior and Decimus Iunius Silanus

Lex Labiena de Iure Civium: Yes
Lex Labiena de Gentibus: Yes
Lex Fabia Labiena de Iure Augurum: Yes
Lex Labiena de Obnuntiatione: Yes

Please note that these results do not include the assignment of tied
centuriae by lot. Also, no race is decided yet, so by all means vote.

Valete

Are either of the Censors or members of their staff on line right now?


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

To any of those who I asked to send me email who have not done so,
you may disregard my last request. I recovered all my email. My
problem was that my 211 meg inbox (something like 12,000 emails back
to 1997 regarding NR mostly) was too big and my comp was having
trouble reading it. I broke it up into several folders with
difficulty and now my comp is purring like a kitten again. I found
all my emails including those from the botched download. No more
sluggish email program.

Valete,

Palladius