Salve Pomponia Fabia,

<Finally if you wish to converse on the ML I would suggest you
<respect Serapio & refer to him as civis or in a more dignifed manner
<than 'sweetie' or'dear'. We are Nova Romans, how you conduct yourself
<over at the Back Alley is of course your own concern.

'Dear and sweetie' is a term of endearment. When I met Serapio in person I'm sure that I referred
to him and other citizens who attended the same way. It is a part of my vocabulary and quite handy
for someone like me who is bad with names. In all the years that I've been in NR and other
organiazations you are the first person to comment negatively. Still though I'll note your
complaint: I'll be sure never to refer to you as sweetie or dear.

We *are* role playing in the Taverna -- drinking virtual drinks, etc. and we've all had quite a
few laughs there. In other words hon', lighten up.

Vle,
Diana

Salve Serapio,

<Ok, so you got a sign which you interpreted in a certain way, then
<you got a second one which you interpreted in the opposite way.
<Therefore I deduce that Venus changed Her minds, which to me is
<perfectly possible.
<Ok, thank you very much for clarifying.

I believe that you didn't understand my email or didn't read it carefully.

<I see that this point has been misunderstood. It is surely my fault.
<I meant: "If you think that Consulship is a mere consolation prize,
<how do you consider Quaestorship?", i.e. do you think it is less
<than nothing?

I believe that I've already answered that as well.

Vale,
Diana

Salve Aule Apolloni,

> Interestingly, this is what I and some of my then
> colleagues strongly encouraged everyone to do. Sadly
> no one seemed interested in testing the system for
> themselves, though several people demanded that we
> test it for them.

I tested it :-)

Nothing scientific mind, but I ran through it with
numerous permutations (as many as I could think of). I
disliked it (for reasons you know, we almost discussed
it to death, no need to repeat the debate again) and I
voted against it.

Hope you feel better soon.

Bene vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

AVE Q CASSI CLAVE

> I think it is best we just agree to disagree, but we are probably

both

> correct just seeing it from different perspectives.

That's ok with me. :-)

> See, I can be a
> reasonable person. <grin>

I never doubted it! ;-)

OPTIME VALE
M'Con.Serapio

AVE DIANA MORAVIA

> I believe that you didn't understand my email or didn't read it

carefully.

I am sure it is as you say :-)

> I believe that I've already answered that as well.

That's possible as well! Anyway, as I told you, that was a
rhetorical question which did not even require an answer! ;-)

BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio

Salvete omnes,

As some of you know already it was my wish last year to run for Quaestor.
Unfortunately, as a capite censi I couldn't offer my services even after a
very good friend of mine, Senator Iunius Silanus had paid my taxes (but too
late). I took it as a heavenly sign : Perhaps I would be called to do
something else, perhaps I didn't have the required experience...
Yet another opening for Quaestorship was publicised and before I could get
to my keyboard, I was delighted to see that my soror Diana was already on
the ranks ! Surely somebody on Mons Olympus must have a laugh at my expense
;-) Now an assisdui I do not wish to run against Diana and renounce any hope
to the Quaestorship this year : She is very qualified and has impressed me
as a tribune. Although I do not share some of her views she truly is a great
asset to our Republic and I will certainly support her with all my heart.
Let me also indulge in family pride in congratulating my other sister
Arnamentia for already being Quaestor : What a great year for the Moravii !

Optime valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

Cn. Salix Astur S.P.D.

I hereby appoint the following citizens as my ACCENSI for the current
consular period, with all the obligations and privileges prescribed
by the Laws of Nova Roma:

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Gaius Iulius Scaurus
Lucius Iulius Sulla
Decimus Iunius Silanus

They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.

This edictum is effective immediately.

Datum pridie Nonas Ianuarias anno MMDCCLVII A.V.C. Cn. Salici Asturi
Cn. Equitio Marino Consulibus.
[Given the 4th of January of 2004 CE]

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve ladies,

What is the list for ladies in NR? There seems to be more than one now.

Valete,
Diana

Salvete citizens,

I'd like to inform you that I'm leaving Nova Roma. I've enjoyed your
company for a couple of months (and I hope you've enjoyed my modest
contributions to your debates) and offer you my best wishes for the
future.
I'm leaving for three reasons:
1. The success of the group means that I typically get 30 to 50 emails a
day.I've recently started a new job and I have fewer hours to devote to
reading them.
2. As people keep pointing out, Nova Roma was founded as a place for
like-minded pagans to practise the Religio. The intention of the group
seems to be religious, rather than historical or linguistic. I'd
describe myself as a humanist atheist. I'd prefer not to lie to you by
pretending to follow the Religio, so I'm also excluded from any public
office (even if I managed to convince you that I'd be worthy of
election).
3. The term "micro-nation" seems to be the same as "club" or group. Real
nations with their own languages and thousands of potential citizens
have problems getting recognised by other counties. (Look at the
problems between the Macedonians and the Greeks).
Real nations have guns and imperium. Their citizens have no options,
they must obey the national laws. If they choose not to, they will be
fined or imprisoned.
Clubs have voluntary rules they you are free to disobey. Clubs can expel
you, but not fine or imprison you unless you have broken the laws of the
parent nation.
A club with 2000 members worldwide (of which perhaps half are active)
does not need a "foreign policy" any more than a computer club does.
When you are recognised by the UN, then sort out your "foreign policy".
To persist in having the machinery of government (senators, magistrates
etc.) without having anyone to rule suggests hubris. Calling a voluntary
subscription to the club a "tax" is also inaccurate. Clubs have rules
that say that if you pay to join, you get to vote.Goverments set taxes,
they are not voluntary.

As such, I feel that I don't really belong here. I'm not a pagan and I
don't share your objectives in creating a "micro-nation". I'd like to
thank everyone who made me feel so welcome and wish you all the best for
the future
Valete,
Gaius Cornelius Severus

Salve, Diana,

My list is called conventusmatronas and focuses on beauty and homemaking.
The other list is sodalitesfeminaeromae. My group focuses on beauty and
homemaking. I believe the other one is general discussion.

Vale,

Julia Modia

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia [mailto:sacerdosveneris@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:57 AM
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women's lists

Salve ladies,

What is the list for ladies in NR? There seems to be more than one now.

Valete,
Diana



_____

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

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<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Women of Rome,

Yes, Ladies of Rome, there are two lists. This an invitation to
join the Conventus Matronas (at Yahoo Groups) moderated by our own
gracious and Julia Modia.

The Conventus Matronas is an uplifting haven for us in the spirit
of 'taking the baths', a time and place for 'self care' away from
the fray, of polite disourse as compared to debate, where art,
beauty, hobbies and homemaking skills are cherished and etiquette
prevails. Emphasis is upon specifically Roman aesthetics.

As for the other list; several of us gave it our best efforts. The
moderatrix' own postings and florid signature are a burden under
which I for one shall not labor.

Thus in a very ladylike and elegant fashion, we are simply
withdrawing to take our ease 'at the baths', our own very Roman
Conventus Matronas.

Women of Rome, please do come join us in the original Conventus
Matronas where you will find welcome, calm and surcease of strife!
Where for a few moments out of the day we can enjoy classical
fashions, beauty creams, jewelry and homemaker arts, lots of
unabashedly feminine 'girl talk'. We can bemourn a broken fibula,
swap patterns and generally take our ease as Romans and as ladies.

--Sabina Cornelia Mima Polyglottos
(unannointed, unappointed, and with both feet on the ground)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Moravia
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salve ladies,
>
> What is the list for ladies in NR? There seems to be more than one

now.

>
> Valete,
> Diana

Salve Gai,

Well I'm sorry to see you leave and many off us will miss your input
an debates. You need not resign your citizenship and when you take
time off, the door is always open here.

1) All the best in your new job. I visit the ML each day and chose
the option of saying, " NO EMAILS, I'll just read the postings.That
way I get nothing clogging my mail other than spam.

2) You do not have to be a Religio Romano practitioner to hold office
here. You just have to take the oath to "protect" the religion as far
as I can see. I like to study about the religion and will take
courses on it in future in order to be informed and also the religion
was the foundation of ancient Roman culture. I do not practice the
religion myself. If, in the future as a few posts suggested, that it
is may be compulsory to be a religio practioner to hold office then,
in my opinion, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot because many
others will leave and with them goes a lot of talent. Personally, I
would stay and work as a civil servant in a few departments as I am
doing now. Many discussions here are historical but religion and
politics always seem to heat up in the fall come election time.

3)Every nation or great club has to start somewhere and grow. You do
not build these things over night and nationhood takes decades, if
not centuries to achieve. Also, in any organization or club I have
belonged to, only a small percentage of people stay active at any one
time and keep the system going. This will always be the case no
matter where one goes; for example my wife and I as well as 3 other
friends do 99.9% of the work for our Mexican Cultural association
which caters off and on to 400+ people. We do the thinking, the
others do the drinking! Nova Roma runs very well in comparison but
this illustrates my point.

4) Finally, every club, culture and nation has her ups and downs as
well as trials, tribulations and growing pains. I find it best to put
those behind us and just keep plodding on.


All the best,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Neil Lucock <neil.lucock@z...>
wrote:

> Salvete citizens,
>
> I'd like to inform you that I'm leaving Nova Roma. I've enjoyed your
> company for a couple of months (and I hope you've enjoyed my modest
> contributions to your debates) and offer you my best wishes for the
> future.
> I'm leaving for three reasons:
> 1. The success of the group means that I typically get 30 to 50

emails a

> day.I've recently started a new job and I have fewer hours to

devote to

> reading them.
> 2. As people keep pointing out, Nova Roma was founded as a place for
> like-minded pagans to practise the Religio. The intention of the

group

> seems to be religious, rather than historical or linguistic. I'd
> describe myself as a humanist atheist. I'd prefer not to lie to you

by

> pretending to follow the Religio, so I'm also excluded from any

public

> office (even if I managed to convince you that I'd be worthy of
> election).
> 3. The term "micro-nation" seems to be the same as "club" or group.

Real

> nations with their own languages and thousands of potential citizens
> have problems getting recognised by other counties. (Look at the
> problems between the Macedonians and the Greeks).
> Real nations have guns and imperium. Their citizens have no options,
> they must obey the national laws. If they choose not to, they will

be

> fined or imprisoned.
> Clubs have voluntary rules they you are free to disobey. Clubs can

expel

> you, but not fine or imprison you unless you have broken the laws

of the

> parent nation.
> A club with 2000 members worldwide (of which perhaps half are

active)

> does not need a "foreign policy" any more than a computer club does.
> When you are recognised by the UN, then sort out your "foreign

policy".

> To persist in having the machinery of government (senators,

magistrates

> etc.) without having anyone to rule suggests hubris. Calling a

voluntary

> subscription to the club a "tax" is also inaccurate. Clubs have

rules

> that say that if you pay to join, you get to vote.Goverments set

taxes,

> they are not voluntary.
>
> As such, I feel that I don't really belong here. I'm not a pagan

and I

> don't share your objectives in creating a "micro-nation". I'd like

to

> thank everyone who made me feel so welcome and wish you all the

best for

> the future
> Valete,
> Gaius Cornelius Severus

Salve Nova Romans


I would like to announce that the Honorable Gaius Basilicatus Agricola, an advocate in the macro world has agreed to work with me in the capacity of Scriba Lex Iuridicialis Secundus, and is appointed to my staff for one year.

I consider myself very fortunate that he has agreed to serve me and Nova Roma in this capacity.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Tribunus Plebis 2757 a.u.c.
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I do hope you are feeling a little better today. I know what feeling
under the weather is like all too well so you have my sympathies.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Cassius Calvus and all
> citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> You say this as though the system has a mind of its
> own, knows who it wants to win, and shuffles the votes
> accordingly. I've seen a lot of people express this
> sort of view lately. It's absurd. A system can't rig
> itself. There is no electoral system anyone can devise
> which will elect X but won't elect Y if X and Y have
> the same number of votes in the same configurations.
> The Fabian system doesn't elect candidates based on
> its own preferences, or mine, or Consul Marinus', or
> anyone's. It elects the most widely supported
> candidates. Even if Hannibal or Alaric the Visigoth
> were running against Romulus and Scipio Africanus the
> system would elect not the best candidate but the one
> who had the widest support.

You can take the same configuration of votes and 5 different voting
systems and depending on what system is used get 5 different winners.

Proof of my statement:

18 voters submitted this IPL: 1 4 5 3 2

12 voters submitted: 2 5 4 3 1

10 voters submitted: 3 2 5 4 1

9 voters submitted: 4 3 5 2 1

6 voters submitted 5 2 4 3 1

Now, let us employ different voting methods for this example, and note
the winners for each: I'm going to presume you are familiar with each
of these, if you are not I'll explain them to you privately as I'm
sure most people's eyes glaze over when people start talking about
voting systems.

Plurality Candidate #1 wins

Loser Elimination Candidate #3 wins

Standard Borda Count Candidate #4 wins

Nonstandard Borda Count Candidate #2 wins

(2 points for 1st, 1 point for 2nd, 0 points otherwise)

Condorcet Pairwise Competition Candidate #5 wins

So tell me who then was really the voter's choice? You can't because
each system takes the same votes and comes up with a different winner.
This is Arrow Theorem: "There is only one voting situation
guaranteed to be fair, and to produce a winner: a plurality (or
majority) vote of 'n' voters choosing from among exactly two
alternatives."

> > However in the case of single slate
> > of candidates to
> > fill multiple positions, a plurality is generally
> > considered the
> > standard needed for election. The fatal flaw within
> > the Lex Fabia is
> > it takes a standard for a single position election
> > and applies it to a
> > multiposition election...
>
> This 'fatal flaw' is lifted wholesale from genuine
> Roman republican practice, and constitutes (in the
> words of a citizen more knowledgeable about Roman
> history than I) Rome's single most important
> contribution to electoral practice. The Romans did not
> permit anyone to become a magistrate unless he had won
> a majority of tribes or centuries. In this respect the
> Romans were centuries ahead of the game, and the
> Fabian system simply follows their example. Accepting
> less than a majority, as you advise, would be a huge
> step backward.

Actually we have no idea what the vote counting method was used by the
Romans to elect majority candidates. What we know for certain about
their electorial practices:

They voted by tribe/century in a specific order.
The Comitia Centuriata met on the Campus Martius
They could cast votes for multiple candidates
Patricians couldn't vote in the Comitia Plebis Tributa

How those votes were counted, no one really knows for sure, but we can
postulate given the technology of the time that it was probably not a
complicated system like Condorcet Pairwise Competition. I actually
suspect it was what is now called Standard Borda Count as that is a
system based on majority and the computations needed to implement it
were well within the technology of the time. One must also remember
that elections in the Republic as time went by became less about
voting in good solid magistrates and more about how the Senatorial
Families "kept score" of their internal pecking order.

If one looks at the Moravian system it is actually based on Standard
Borda Count ranking of candidates and with a few minor tweeks be
completely converted to Standard Borda Count thus satisfying the
requirements of majority. Of all the alternative voting methods I
prefer Standard Borda Count as it takes in all possible premutations
that a voter could generate and weighs them equally. Arrows Theorem
tells us that once you go beyond two choices the terms "fair" and
"accurate" go out the window and it really comes down to personal
preference of what is best. You and I just have different opinions of
what is best, but I think we both believe that a system that produces
interminable run-offs is probably the worst.

As for the argument as to whether simple is better than complex, it
depends entirely on the task. A bulldozer is far more complex than a
hand trowel but one wouldn't use a bulldozer to plant tulip bulbs.
Elephants are more complex than bacteria, but you can't make yogart
using elephants (well maybe you can but I wouldn't want to eat it).
Oak trees are more complex than yeast but oak trees won't leaven your
bread dough, you'll just get matzo that tastes like sawdust.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

SALVETE OMNES


I need to say that it will be a pleasure for me to work as Accensus
in the Cohors Consularis of Consul Gn. Salix Astur.

Thank you for your trust.


L IUL SULLA
Civis Romanus
Italia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
<salixastur@y...> wrote:

> Cn. Salix Astur S.P.D.
>
> I hereby appoint the following citizens as my ACCENSI for the

current

> consular period, with all the obligations and privileges

prescribed

> by the Laws of Nova Roma:
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> Gaius Iulius Scaurus
> Lucius Iulius Sulla
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
>
> They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.
>
> This edictum is effective immediately.
>
> Datum pridie Nonas Ianuarias anno MMDCCLVII A.V.C. Cn. Salici

Asturi

> Cn. Equitio Marino Consulibus.
> [Given the 4th of January of 2004 CE]
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
> CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salvete omnes,

Thank you Gnae. I also am honored and look forward to working for our
Consul Gn. Gnaus Salix Astur.

I too thank you for your confidence.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Iulius" <21aprile@e...>
wrote:

> SALVETE OMNES
>
>
> I need to say that it will be a pleasure for me to work as Accensus
> in the Cohors Consularis of Consul Gn. Salix Astur.
>
> Thank you for your trust.
>
>
> L IUL SULLA
> Civis Romanus
> Italia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Salix Astur"
> <salixastur@y...> wrote:
> > Cn. Salix Astur S.P.D.
> >
> > I hereby appoint the following citizens as my ACCENSI for the
> current
> > consular period, with all the obligations and privileges
> prescribed
> > by the Laws of Nova Roma:
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > Gaius Iulius Scaurus
> > Lucius Iulius Sulla
> > Decimus Iunius Silanus
> >
> > They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.
> >
> > This edictum is effective immediately.
> >
> > Datum pridie Nonas Ianuarias anno MMDCCLVII A.V.C. Cn. Salici
> Asturi
> > Cn. Equitio Marino Consulibus.
> > [Given the 4th of January of 2004 CE]
> >
> > S.V.B.E.E.V.
> > CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve Athanasius,
I think you have to read the past message before to attack me.

I answered to an offense of Fabius Maximus: he insulted Lucius
Iulius Sulla and me. He said that Iulius Sulla is my "slap dog"
maybe because I'm supporting his candidacy. By the way I explained
that I'm supporting Sulla because he is my friend.
Maybe Maximus couldn't understand this kind of relations between
Nova romans.

This is what I mean and never I attacked the relations in the other
Provinciae.
If I hurted you all, I present my apologies.

Vale
Fr. Apulus CAesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Fr. Apulus;
>
> What does this mean? Are you insinuating that other Provinces
somehow charge for events? This is not the case within the Great
Province of Lacus Magni.
>
> And when you say "usually we have friendly and free
collaborations," is it safe to assume that from time to time you
also have "hostile and costly collaborations" as well?
>
> Your insult of Quintus Fabius, a provincial governer himself (ie.,
Proconsul), is unfounded. I have heard of no impropriety within his
Provincial administration.
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
>
> In a message dated 1/3/2004 9:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@l... writes:
>
> > And I have to say you that maybe the Provincia Italia is so
> > big now because
> > usually we have friendly and free collaborations.
> > It seems you are not so close to this kind of friendships.
> >
> > Vale
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar

I, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium to the Nova Roman magistrates for the year 2757 AUC.

I also recognize Imperium for all prorogued and newly appointed Provincial Praetors of Nova Roma, and also recognize that Imperium which may be bestowed upon those Provincial Praetors or appointed during the course of the coming year.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over the Magistrates of
Nova Roma, grant them the guidance and wisdom to use their Imperium.
May this sacred bond bring favor upon our Nation and our Citizens in this coming year.

Ita sit.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE OMNES

I would like to tell you all some reasons to vote for me in next
Contio. If I will be elected, I'll do everything our Res Publica
will ask me; I however would like to work with Aed. Curulis M Iulius
Perusianus to the project of restauration of the temple of Magna
Mater, as I could do last year; this is a wonderful project our
provincia Italia is taking care of, and I sincerely trust it.

Indeed, my friendship with Perusianus will help me to do so in the
best way, I guess.

I would like to manipulate billions of euros for our project, but I
think that it won't be possible, at the moment (unless honorable Q
Fabius Maximus will keep his money for a big donation to Nova Roma).
So, I think I could take care of our few, but important savings, as I
have many years of experience in manipulating THIS amount of money.

Even if our laws allow other ways to get to bigger offices, I want
to start my Cursus Honorum with Quaestorship because Romans did so,
and I think that just following the real Cursus Honorum can produce
all the knowledge to do the best for our Res Publica.


BENE VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Italia

SALVETE CIVES ROMANI, SALVE Q FABI MAXIME

I will not answer to the bleak words of Q Fabius Maximus
about "bunch of jackals" and "Apulus' lap dog"; everybody in this
mailing list could read them and has judged those words about me and
my friends; my Dignitas (do you know what I'm talkin' about, Q. Fabi
Maxime?) was unaffected.
Q. Fabi Maxime, you should understand that breeding and smartness
could be learnt even if you are not a child. Maybe, you sould learn
this smartness from your candidate D. Moravia Aventina.

And about all the experts I have contacted for Nova Roma and
Academia Italica, you can find out everything in the home page of
Academia Italica:
http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica/esperto.htm.

You can read everything, even the answers of our experts... if I'm
not wrong you told us you can fluently read and speak Italian, don't
you?!

OPTIME VALETE
L IUL SULLA

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund), do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of its citizens and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia
Finnlund), swear to honor the gods and goddesses of Roma in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund), swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund), swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Emilia Curia Finnica (Emilia Finnlund), further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Aedilis Plebis
to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
gods and goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Aedilis Plebis and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

--


Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Aedilis Plebis

Salvete all,

I would like to announce that today I received official permission from Marcus Octavius Germanicus
to join his gens. Amongst others, he is someone that I have always greatly admired in Nova Roma. I
am happy to now be a member of his Roman family. My gensmates in Gens Moravia were simply the best
and so my leaving has nothing to do with them at all.

After it is offical in the records, I will be known as Diana Octavia Aventina.

I hope that this pleases some of you as much as this pleases me!

Valete,
Diana (still Moravia for a tiny bit longer!)

PS to Laureatus Moravius-- run for Quaestor! Now you won't have to run against your Materfamilias :-)

Salve Diana,

Congratulations on your new gens. Octavius (Augustus) has always been
one of my favourite Romans and his statue always comes in a flash in
my mind whenever I hear the name, Ancient Rome.

I was wondering who will be the new pater or materfamilias of the
gens Moravia when your change in name is finalized?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Moravia
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salvete all,
>
> I would like to announce that today I received official permission

from Marcus Octavius Germanicus

> to join his gens. Amongst others, he is someone that I have always

greatly admired in Nova Roma. I

> am happy to now be a member of his Roman family. My gensmates in

Gens Moravia were simply the best

> and so my leaving has nothing to do with them at all.
>
> After it is offical in the records, I will be known as Diana

Octavia Aventina.

>
> I hope that this pleases some of you as much as this pleases me!
>
> Valete,
> Diana (still Moravia for a tiny bit longer!)
>
> PS to Laureatus Moravius-- run for Quaestor! Now you won't have to

run against your Materfamilias :-)

Salve Iulius,

Being a person willing to work is a good enough reason to run. But do you have any specific
financial experience ?

<I would like to manipulate billions of euros for our project, but I
<think that it won't be possible, at the moment (unless honorable Q
<Fabius Maximus will keep his money for a big donation to Nova Roma).
<So, I think I could take care of our few, but important savings, as I
<have many years of experience in manipulating THIS amount of money.

Maybe so, but the Quaestors don't manipulate (invest) the money of Nova Roma because it is not
ours to invest.. We basically keep track of it for the magistrate that we are assigned to.

And when/if Q Fabius Maximus donates money to NR the person that he would want in charge of it
would be someone like me who has a grand total of 17 years (1985 to 2002) in the financial sector.
:-)

Vale,
Diana Octavia

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dictit,

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) swear to uphold and defend the
Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in
a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus (Adrian R. Gunn) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Rogator to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Rogator and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.



Bene valete in pace Deorum,



C. Minucius Hadrianus

Minerva Templi Sacerdotes

Rogator

Propraetor Nova Britannia

Lictor



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<I was wondering who will be the new pater or materfamilias of the
<gens Moravia when your change in name is finalized?

Salve Paulinus,

Before I forget, congratulations on your appointment to the Senior Consul's staff! This is great
news. You are way too smart not to officially serve Roma in some capacity :-)

I am offical already-- that's the good part of having a Paterfamilias who is also a Censor :-)

With regards to Gens Moravia, I am not sure how it works. It used to be that the most senior
member would become the materfamilias, in this case Quaestor and Priestess of Diana, Arnamentia
Moravia. It is also possible that the gens decides who will be the new Mater/Pater. I'll have to
find out and check back. I'm not toally up-to-date with that part of the gens laws.

Vale,
Diana

Salvete,

While away on holiday leave I encountered some difficulties with my e-mail
(of course....) and as such have lost any e-mails sent directly to me after
the 29th of December. If by chance, anyone here had attempted to send me an
e-mail between 29 December and 3 January, please re-send it! If anyone has
tried to contact me these last 2 weeks on via list, I'm going back through
the message archives on all my groups websites so please be patient! I
should be caught up in a day or two. Thanks!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Diana,

Thanks! I'll do my best in this staff capacity and learn all I can
about the government at the same time. I see I'm in great company on
the staff!

That will be great if Diana Armentia becomes gens head in Moravia.
She has great spunk and character from what I have seen in her
communications.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> <I was wondering who will be the new pater or materfamilias of the
> <gens Moravia when your change in name is finalized?
>
> Salve Paulinus,
>
> Before I forget, congratulations on your appointment to the Senior

Consul's staff! This is great

> news. You are way too smart not to officially serve Roma in some

capacity :-)

>
> I am offical already-- that's the good part of having a

Paterfamilias who is also a Censor :-)

>
> With regards to Gens Moravia, I am not sure how it works. It used

to be that the most senior

> member would become the materfamilias, in this case Quaestor and

Priestess of Diana, Arnamentia

> Moravia. It is also possible that the gens decides who will be the

new Mater/Pater. I'll have to

> find out and check back. I'm not toally up-to-date with that part

of the gens laws.

>
> Vale,
> Diana

Salve All

I was wondering if someone can direct me as to how to join the
Plebian list.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Salve All

I am not sure where I should send this to, but since I joined the
main list with my new settings I have not received any individual
emails from the main list as I requested. I am doing all my
communicating through yahoo groups. Can anyone help direct me in
the right direction with this?

Vale

QS

Salve Quinte,

Is this the address you are looking for?





ComitiaPlebisTributa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


I'll send you a test mail regarding your next post.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "nateguiboche" <nate@m...> wrote:
>
> Salve All
>
> I was wondering if someone can direct me as to how to join the
> Plebian list.
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
> Propraetor
> Canada Occidentalis

--
Congratulations Quinte Lani;
I know you will serve Roma with devotion. And thanks for that url,
I'd meant to join the ComitiaPlebsList, look forward to the day when
I can orate before a real NR jury!
optime vale P. Fabia Vera

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve Quinte,
>
> Is this the address you are looking for?
>
>
>
>
>
> ComitiaPlebisTributa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> I'll send you a test mail regarding your next post.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "nateguiboche" <nate@m...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > I was wondering if someone can direct me as to how to join the
> > Plebian list.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> > Propraetor
> > Canada Occidentalis

When I updated My group setting to send my mail to a new address it took
Yahoo several days to get the mail to the correct address.

Drusus


nateguiboche wrote:

>
> Salve All
>
> I am not sure where I should send this to, but since I joined the
> main list with my new settings I have not received any individual
> emails from the main list as I requested. I am doing all my
> communicating through yahoo groups. Can anyone help direct me in
> the right direction with this?
>
> Vale
>
> QS

SALVE D MORAVIA OCTAVIA AVENTINA

> Being a person willing to work is a good enough reason to run.

Thank you, but I'm not expecting your judgement about my good wills,
nor I asked you. You can be sure that any facts will support this
statement.

> Maybe so, but the Quaestors don't manipulate (invest) the money of
> Nova Roma because it is not ours to invest.. We basically keep
> track of it for the magistrate that we are assigned to.

I don't think we can go far doing such kind of sophisms.
I just said that I, you or anybody do not need to be the director of
a bank to manage our money; for being a good Quaestor you should be
firstly honest, keen and respectful of all the money our Cives gave
us to manage.

> And when/if Q Fabius Maximus donates money to NR the person that
> he would want in charge of it would be someone like me who has a
> grand total of 17 years (1985 to 2002) in the financial sector.

Yes, if you'll be elected as Quaestor ;-)

Should we interpret this fact as a promise of donation by honorable
Q. Fabius Maximus, or not?!

VALE
L IUL SULLA

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Moravia
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salvete all,
>
> I would like to announce that today I received official permission

from Marcus Octavius Germanicus

> to join his gens. Amongst others, he is someone that I have always

greatly admired in Nova Roma. I

> am happy to now be a member of his Roman family. My gensmates in

Gens Moravia were simply the best

> and so my leaving has nothing to do with them at all.
>
> After it is offical in the records, I will be known as Diana

Octavia Aventina.

Omigoodness *faints* FELICITATIO, what a surprise!! Land sakes, who's
going to fill your shoes as mater/paterfamilias?!

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete omnes!

Please allow me to endorse my favourite candidate for the last Quaestor position:
I am going to vote for Diana Moravia, erm..., Diana Octavia Aventina, that is now.

She is undoubtedly more than qualified, and her readiness to serve the republic even after the events of the last weeks shows that she is not lusting for power, but eager to work for us.

I think it would be a shame not to put her talents and devotion to use.

Please consider Diana Octavia when voting for the last Quaestor.

--
Optime valete!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator D. Iunius Silanus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm recovering.

> > Interestingly, this is what I and some of my then
> > colleagues strongly encouraged everyone to do.
> Sadly
> > no one seemed interested in testing the system for
> > themselves, though several people demanded that we
> > test it for them.
>
> I tested it :-)

You're quite right - sorry for forgetting you! Yes, I
remember you and Quintius Constantius each making very
pertinent comments.

As I recall you favour a more proportional system,
which is a very reasonable position - to be frank the
only opposing position I found credible. I think we
even started drafting a proportional alternative
system, just in case. :)

________________________________________________________________________
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A. Apollonius Cordus to Cornelius Moravius Laureatus
Armoricus and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm getting better, I think.

> ... Now an assisdui I do not wish to run against
> Diana and renounce any hope
> to the Quaestorship this year : She is very
> qualified and has impressed me
> as a tribune.

A noble move! I hope, and indeed I'm sure, your
(suddenly ex-) clanswoman appreciates it. I also hope
you'll stand for office at the end of this year - the
republic would benefit greatly from your service.

________________________________________________________________________
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Salvete people of Roma!

Gnaeus Octavius has offered the very sentiment that I would like to
express regarding the last open Quaestor position. I, too, will be
voting for Diana Octavia. She is qualified and dedicated, energetic
and kind, and a great asset to Nova Roma.

Diana, I am so sorry to lose you as a gensmate, but I know that you
will do a fantastic job as Quaestor!

Arnamentia Moravia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
<cn.octavius.noricus@g...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes!
>
> Please allow me to endorse my favourite candidate for the last

Quaestor position:

> I am going to vote for Diana Moravia, erm..., Diana Octavia

Aventina, that is now.

>
> She is undoubtedly more than qualified, and her readiness to serve

the republic even after the events of the last weeks shows that she
is not lusting for power, but eager to work for us.

>
> I think it would be a shame not to put her talents and devotion to

use.

>
> Please consider Diana Octavia when voting for the last Quaestor.
>
> --
> Optime valete!
>
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

Salve Diana Octavia Aventina,

congratualtions for your new Gens, Gens Octavia is a wonderful
patrician family with honorable adnd illustri members and friends
like Marcus Germanicus and Gnaeus Noricus.

But, please, I'm a bit curious ... ;-) Why you have changed again
gens? Didn't you like the honourable Gens Moravia? What are the
reasons of your third change?

Good luck in your new gens!

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Moravia
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salvete all,
>
> I would like to announce that today I received official permission

from Marcus Octavius Germanicus

> to join his gens. Amongst others, he is someone that I have always

greatly admired in Nova Roma. I

> am happy to now be a member of his Roman family. My gensmates in

Gens Moravia were simply the best

> and so my leaving has nothing to do with them at all.
>
> After it is offical in the records, I will be known as Diana

Octavia Aventina.

>
> I hope that this pleases some of you as much as this pleases me!
>
> Valete,
> Diana (still Moravia for a tiny bit longer!)
>
> PS to Laureatus Moravius-- run for Quaestor! Now you won't have to

run against your Materfamilias :-)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Cassius Calvus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> I do hope you are feeling a little better today. I
> know what feeling
> under the weather is like all too well so you have
> my sympathies.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm improving. It occurs to me
that some people must rather wish a sore throat
stopped me typing like it stops me speaking. :)

> You can take the same configuration of votes and 5
> different voting
> systems and depending on what system is used get 5
> different winners.

... [Example omitted]...

> So tell me who then was really the voter's choice?
> You can't because
> each system takes the same votes and comes up with a
> different winner.

It's very true that different systems return different
candidates. When I say that AV returns the candidate
with the widest support, I simply mean that I believe
AV to be the most reliable system for choosing the
candidate who has what I consider the right quantity
and distribution of support to be the winner. But that
takes longer to type.

> Actually we have no idea what the vote counting
> method was used by the
> Romans to elect majority candidates.

This is true, but I believe (though I can't recall the
references) that it is positively attested that
candidates needed to win more than half the centuries
or tribes in order to win. But since I'm asserting,
the burden of proof is on me, so I'll try to find some
evidence - unless a better historian should come to my
rescue first. :)

> ... I actually
> suspect it was what is now called Standard Borda
> Count as that is a
> system based on majority and the computations needed
> to implement it
> were well within the technology of the time.

This strikes me as very unlikely. Naturally we can
only go on instinct, but I can't see the Romans coming
up with any method of calculating elections which
don't involve counting one pebble as one pebble and
one tribe or century as one century. Not that they
couldn't have done, of course, but I don't think they
would have done. They probably didn't use AV either,
but it strikes me as the more plausible of the two.
Incidentally, we did consider Borda Count as an
alternative, but partly for this reason we considered
AV preferable.

My suspicion, for what it's worth, is that they used
some fairly simple and not terribly accurate system
which if we used it would produce frequent run-offs
but which worked for them because they had far higher
numbers of voters.

> If one looks at the Moravian system it is actually
> based on Standard
> Borda Count ranking of candidates and with a few
> minor tweeks be
> completely converted to Standard Borda Count thus
> satisfying the
> requirements of majority.

If that were done, it would certainly be a
considerable improvement on the present system. But
the fact that the existing system looks somewhat (I
wouldn't say very) like Borda Count and could be made
into it doesn't mean that it's not a pretty
undesirable system as it currently stands.

Just to complicate things further, I'll say what I've
said before on the plebeian list: in my view the
tribunes ought to be elected not on a majority
principle at all but proportionally. But that's
another kettle of fish.

> As for the argument as to whether simple is better
> than complex, it
> depends entirely on the task. [Examples omitted]

True, and pretty much the point I was trying to make.
The fact that one system is simple and another complex
is neither here nor there, and ought not to intrude
upon the debate.

________________________________________________________________________
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Salve Diana,

I have to make a little correction. It's clear and reasonable that
probably the new Quaestor will be assigned to an Aedile. I think the
actual Quaestores are assigned to teh Consules, Censores and
Praetores.
Of course, the historical duties of the Quaestor are economical and
financial.
However the Nova Roman situation is a bit different and I can talk
to you about it because I was a Quaestor and I worked with a
wonderful Quaestor in the last year. The Quaestores assigned to the
Aediles mustn't to have financial skills because no budget is
assigned to the Aediles by the Res Publica. The Aediles should have
powers about the Macellum but there aren't detailed laws about it.
So usually the lucky Quaestores serving the Aediles are obliged to
organize the Cohors, project edicta and help the Aediles to organize
Ludi and Meetings. Of course, very important and useful jobs for the
Aediles, but nothing about financial issues...
In the last year the Senate approved the Aedilician Fund, a bank
account to raise money for a specific project authorized by the
Senate and presented by a Curule Aedile. In this moment there is
just one progect, the big project of Magna Mater. And I think just
one Curule Aedile (Iulius Perusianus because he knows very well the
project) needs a Quaestor with economical skills. And this Quaestor
must to be able not only to "calculate" the raised money, but to
talk with the local Istitutions (University of Rome and
Sovrintendenza of Rome), with the comunication-agency, meet them,
plan visit and activities, manage the new website, raise the funds,
plan teh promotion of the project, etc.
I think and I hope he'll do them... :-)

At the end, what I mean is that the new Quaestor would have 25% of
probabities to accomplish financial and economical duties.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salve Iulius,
>
> Being a person willing to work is a good enough reason to run. But

do you have any specific

> financial experience ?
>
> <I would like to manipulate billions of euros for our project, but

I

> <think that it won't be possible, at the moment (unless honorable

Q

> <Fabius Maximus will keep his money for a big donation to Nova

Roma).

> <So, I think I could take care of our few, but important savings,

as I

> <have many years of experience in manipulating THIS amount of

money.

>
> Maybe so, but the Quaestors don't manipulate (invest) the money of

Nova Roma because it is not

> ours to invest.. We basically keep track of it for the magistrate

that we are assigned to.

>
> And when/if Q Fabius Maximus donates money to NR the person that

he would want in charge of it

> would be someone like me who has a grand total of 17 years (1985

to 2002) in the financial sector.

> :-)
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is pridie Nonae Ianuarii; the day is comitialis.

Tomorrow is the Nonae Ianuarii and the feria of Vicae Potae; the day
is nefastus. In Roma antiqua the Rex Sacrorum would announce the
regular fixed feriae of the month on the Nonae by edictum. The Nonae
were sacred to Iuno Covella and a Pontifex announced, "Die quinti te
kalo Iuno Covella," and the Regina Sacrorum sacrificed to Iuno at the
Regia. The feria of Vicae Potae is the anniversary of the
establishment of the temple of Vica Pota on the Velia. She is thought
to have been an ancient Goddess of Victory, only later superseded by
the personified virtue Victoria.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

A. Apollonius Cordus to Diana Moravia Aventina and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> After it is offical in the records, I will be known
> as Diana Octavia Aventina.

Naturally, I hope you enjoy your new gens and flourish
in it.

However, I have to admit that if you had left more
than three quarters of an hour between this
announcement and your announcement that the process
had been completed, I'd have started being
obstructive. :)

Nothin serious - it's just that one the tiny things in
Nova Roma that niggles and nags at me is the naming
practice in adoptions. Historically the adopted person
(whether by adoptio or adrogatio, I believe) would
take the name of the adoptive father with the addition
of his original nomen as an agnomen, but ending
'-anus' rather than '-us'. So your name ought to be
Marca Octavia Germanica Moraviana.

I prefer that way not just because it's historical but
because one of the nice things about a Roman's name is
that it tells you something about him or her - in this
case, it tells you three things:
1. She's been adopted;
2. She used to be Moravia;
3. Her adoptive father is M. Octavius Germanicus.

I hope the next adoption will be done using the
traditional naming practice - and I'll be looking
particularly to Censor Fabius Quintilianus to make
sure that it is, since 'more historical names' was one
of his manifesto promises.

But you got away with it thanks to your
super-efficient new pater - well done. ;) Best wishes.

________________________________________________________________________
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G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Les dodécaèdres gallo-romains ajourés et bouletés
[Openwork and Overshot Gallo-Roman Dodecahedrons]":

http://membres.lycos.fr/dodeca/histoire.htm

This site traces the history of one of the most mysterious artifact
types found in Gallo-Roman archaeology. The site is in French.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus Cn. Salicic Asturi salutem dicit.

Salve, Cn. Salix.

I am honoured by your confidence and grateful for the opportunity to
serve. If I serve you half so well as you will serve the res
publica, I shall have accomplished a great deal, amice.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Accensus

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Cassius Calvus and all
> citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> > I do hope you are feeling a little better today. I
> > know what feeling
> > under the weather is like all too well so you have
> > my sympathies.
>
> Thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm improving. It occurs to me
> that some people must rather wish a sore throat
> stopped me typing like it stops me speaking. :)

Shhhhh. Don't say that too loud someone might hire someone to break
your fingers. <grin>

> It's very true that different systems return different
> candidates. When I say that AV returns the candidate
> with the widest support, I simply mean that I believe
> AV to be the most reliable system for choosing the
> candidate who has what I consider the right quantity
> and distribution of support to be the winner. But that
> takes longer to type.

Maybe or maybe not, but Borda does resolve ambiguity a little better.
For instance if in century "X" there are three voters and three
candidates:

Currently all the rogators will know is that:

voter 1 voted a/b
voter 2 voted b/c
voter 3 voted a/c

First problem is there is a three way tie, but that can happen with
any system, the current and apparently historical solution was to
resolve ties by lot this means that century X could be ranked as:

A, B, C or
A, C, B or
B, A, C or
B, C, A or
C, A, B or
C, B, A

If I forgot a possibility forgive me, but I think what's there is
pretty ample.


But with Borda:

voter 1 voted a=3 b=2 c=1
voter 2 voted b=3 c=2 a=1
voter 3 voted a=3 c=2 b=1

You now know that the actual preference for that century is
a=7
b=6
c=5

Still the possiblity of a three or two way tie but that can happen in
any system. I think this also works better to explain what I mean by
"discriminatory" and one set gets to cast two votes and one set gets
to cast one vote statement. I should have been a little more clear in
my logic steps, I have a bad habit of skipping over steps and assuming
people will just follow along and know what I mean.

When computating the century results in that century each candidates
Borda Count would be candidate a = 3, b=2, and c=1.

> This is true, but I believe (though I can't recall the
> references) that it is positively attested that
> candidates needed to win more than half the centuries
> or tribes in order to win. But since I'm asserting,
> the burden of proof is on me, so I'll try to find some
> evidence - unless a better historian should come to my
> rescue first. :)
>
> > ... I actually
> > suspect it was what is now called Standard Borda
> > Count as that is a
> > system based on majority and the computations needed
> > to implement it
> > were well within the technology of the time.
>
> This strikes me as very unlikely. Naturally we can
> only go on instinct, but I can't see the Romans coming
> up with any method of calculating elections which
> don't involve counting one pebble as one pebble and
> one tribe or century as one century. Not that they
> couldn't have done, of course, but I don't think they
> would have done. They probably didn't use AV either,
> but it strikes me as the more plausible of the two.
> Incidentally, we did consider Borda Count as an
> alternative, but partly for this reason we considered
> AV preferable.

Don't discount their mathematical abilities. The Romans were fine
mathematicians especially when one considers they didn't have the
number zero. It completely boggles my mind how they managed to do the
mathematics required in their engineering feats without the number
zero and the decimal system. I think a Borda Count type system would
be the more plausable of the two as it could be done with colored
beads of glass and holes in boards. I should clarify that the voters
themselves didn't use it they just marked yea or nay next to
candidates names, the Borda Count system would have been employed
within the centuries/tribes themselves to rank the candidates. Or we
both could be completely wrong and they decided things using "papyrus,
rocks, and scissors". (I'm pretty sure Romans had scissors anyway.)

> My suspicion, for what it's worth, is that they used
> some fairly simple and not terribly accurate system
> which if we used it would produce frequent run-offs
> but which worked for them because they had far higher
> numbers of voters.

> > As for the argument as to whether simple is better
> > than complex, it
> > depends entirely on the task. [Examples omitted]
>
> True, and pretty much the point I was trying to make.
> The fact that one system is simple and another complex
> is neither here nor there, and ought not to intrude
> upon the debate.

Simplicity vs. complexity has a place in debate if the merits and
demerits of each aren't at least discussed you can wind up with a
system too simplistic to accomplish the task or far to complex to put
into action.

Shall we next bore everyone with a debate on which is the better test
for fairness in a Condorcet system, the Black one-peakedness or the
Sen Coherence?

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salvete;

Fr. Apulus, according to the Constitution of Nova Roma the duties of a Quaestor are as follows, "...One quaestor shall be assigned to each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such cannot be made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall have the power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned..."

Additionally, under the definition of Aediles Curules it states, "To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and other tasks, as he shall see fit."

A Quaestor is a financial representative. If the magistrate chooses to delegate additional responsibilities to their quaestor then that is their right. However, the duties of a Quaestor are spelled out in our constitution. To insinuate that a Quastor has "other" duties -- not spelled out in our constitution -- is unconstitutional.

If a magistrate desires to have his quaestor act as his personal advisor then that too is the magistrates personal choice. But the citizens should not VOTE on an office because one candidate is located at a specific location or of a specific macro-nationality. We are all citizens together in the Republic of Nova Roma.

I support the Magna Mater project -- what I know of it. However, if the Propraetor of Italia is going to advocate for members of his province being elected simply because the are from Provincia Italia, then perhaps Provincia Italia should provide the sole source of funding for the project.

In closing, I counter your statement. A questors responsibilities are 100% financial, according to our Constitution.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Tribunus Plebis

In a message dated 1/4/2004 8:55:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

> At the end, what I mean is that the new Quaestor would have
> 25% of
> probabities to accomplish financial and economical duties.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Lanio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Lani amice.

I have only one brief comment.

>2) You do not have to be a Religio Romano practitioner to hold office
>here. You just have to take the oath to "protect" the religion as far
>as I can see. I like to study about the religion and will take
>courses on it in future in order to be informed and also the religion
>was the foundation of ancient Roman culture. I do not practice the
>religion myself. If, in the future as a few posts suggested, that it
>is may be compulsory to be a religio practioner to hold office then,
>in my opinion, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot because many
>others will leave and with them goes a lot of talent. Personally, I
>would stay and work as a civil servant in a few departments as I am
>doing now. Many discussions here are historical but religion and
>politics always seem to heat up in the fall come election time.

The Collegium Pontificum has no plans whatsoever to require
magistrates to be practitioners of the Religio; it has always been
proper for a non-Religio magistrate to appoint a proxy to perform the
caerimoniae for him. We know perfectly well what changing that
policy would do and we are not quite that stupid (despite the
opinions of others about some of us to the contrary :-).
Furthermore, it would violate the mos maiorum, in my view, since it
was the compromise arrived at under the Christian emperors.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

> Nothin serious - it's just that one the tiny things in
> Nova Roma that niggles and nags at me is the naming
> practice in adoptions. Historically the adopted person
> (whether by adoptio or adrogatio, I believe) would
> take the name of the adoptive father with the addition
> of his original nomen as an agnomen, but ending
> '-anus' rather than '-us'. So your name ought to be
> Marca Octavia Germanica Moraviana.

I don't really think of this as an adoption - after all, Diana is
in another country, and won't be sleeping in my house or eating my
food. And, once we move to a system of gentes containing familiae,
she won't be in my familia. Diana will be in a different familia
within Gens Octavia, and hence should have a substantially
different name.

Vale, Octavius.


--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess;
moderation is for monks. - Heinlein

Salve G. Iuli Scaure amice,

Thank you for your comment and clarification on this matter. I am
sure that some people will feel more at ease now with regards for
running for political office. I will forward your comments to Gai on
this matter just in case he left the list already.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Rose <gfr@w...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Lanio Paulino salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Q. Lani amice.
>
> I have only one brief comment.
>
> >2) You do not have to be a Religio Romano practitioner to hold
office
> >here. You just have to take the oath to "protect" the religion as
far
> >as I can see. I like to study about the religion and will take
> >courses on it in future in order to be informed and also the
religion
> >was the foundation of ancient Roman culture. I do not practice the
> >religion myself. If, in the future as a few posts suggested, that
it
> >is may be compulsory to be a religio practioner to hold office
then,
> >in my opinion, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot because
many
> >others will leave and with them goes a lot of talent. Personally, I
> >would stay and work as a civil servant in a few departments as I am
> >doing now. Many discussions here are historical but religion and
> >politics always seem to heat up in the fall come election time.
>
> The Collegium Pontificum has no plans whatsoever to require
> magistrates to be practitioners of the Religio; it has always been
> proper for a non-Religio magistrate to appoint a proxy to perform
the
> caerimoniae for him. We know perfectly well what changing that
> policy would do and we are not quite that stupid (despite the
> opinions of others about some of us to the contrary :-).
> Furthermore, it would violate the mos maiorum, in my view, since it
> was the compromise arrived at under the Christian emperors.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

Salve Iulius,

<Thank you, but I'm not expecting your judgement about my good wills,
<nor I asked you.

Then your wills aren't good? (just kidding)

Just as you responded to my declaration of candidacy without invitation, I replied to your
'Presentation' email also without invitation. I've read the list guidelines as posted by our
Praetores a few days ago and any reference to 'Diana is not allowed to reply to the Iulius who is
running for Quaestor" is certainly not there.

Vale,
Diana Octavia

Salve Scaurus,

A very interesting site! There is an entire large room and a presentation dedicated to this at the
Gallo-Roman museum of Tongeren Belgium with fancy lights and about 50 of the 50 dede.... Oops,
I've forgotten the English name of it...
My theory is that it is a children's toy :-)
Vale,
Diana

--- g_iulius_scaurus <gfr@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Les dod�ca�dres gallo-romains ajour�s et boulet�s
[Openwork and Overshot Gallo-Roman Dodecahedrons]":

http://membres.lycos.fr/dodeca/histoire.htm

This site traces the history of one of the most mysterious artifact
types found in Gallo-Roman archaeology. The site is in French.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus



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Salve Diana Octavia,

Good luck in your new gens!!!

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> I would like to announce that today I received
> official permission from Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> to join his gens. Amongst others, he is someone that
> I have always greatly admired in Nova Roma. I
> am happy to now be a member of his Roman family. My
> gensmates in Gens Moravia were simply the best
> and so my leaving has nothing to do with them at
> all.
>
> After it is offical in the records, I will be known
> as Diana Octavia Aventina.
>
> I hope that this pleases some of you as much as this
> pleases me!
>
> Valete,
> Diana (still Moravia for a tiny bit longer!)
>
> PS to Laureatus Moravius-- run for Quaestor! Now you
> won't have to run against your Materfamilias :-)

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
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Ego, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) hoc ipso facto
sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper pro Novae Romae
Populo atque Senatu agere. Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae temporibus atque
Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita persequi.


Ego Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) Romanam religionem favere et defendere IVRO ut Novae Romae
Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut eius status publicae
religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat. Praeterea ego Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) IVRO quam
optime fungi officium muneris Tribuni Plebis.

Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque deabus et
eorum voluntate et favore, munus <magistrature Tribuni Plebis ACCIPIO
una cum iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus
comportat.

In Brasilia Provincia V CLNDS IANUARIUS, anno 2756 A.V.C.




________________________________________________



Eu, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), por meio deste solenemente juro guardar a honra de Nova Roma, e trabalhar sempre para os melhores interesses do Senado e povo de Nova Roma.

Como um magistrado de Nova Roma, Eu, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), juro honrar os Deuses e Deusas de Roma nas minhas atividades públicas, bem como almejar as virtudes públicas romanas na minha vida pública e privada.

Eu,Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), juro sustentar e defender a Religio Romana como a Religião Estatal de Nova Roma e juro nunca agir de forma que vá ameaçar sua posição como religião oficial.

Eu, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), juro proteger e defender a constituição de Nova Roma.

Eu, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), no mais juro cumprir as obrigações e responsabilidades do cargo de Tribuno da Plebe no melhor de minhas habilidades.

Pela minha honra como cidadão de Nova Roma, na presença dos Deuses e Deusas do Povo Romano, pelas suas mercês e favores, aceito a magistratura de Tribuno da Plebe bem como todos seus direitos, privilégios, obrigações e responsabilidades decorrentes de agora em diante.



_______________________________________________

I, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Lucius Arminius Faustus (Andre L. Santos) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Tribune of the Plebis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Tribune of the Plebis and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.







Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus




---------------------------------
Central anti-spam do Yahoo! Mail: com dicas, dúvidas e curiosidades!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

I just happened to quickly look at the official Nova Roman oath
formula in Latin and I noticed some details that were a bit
surprising. Are they taken from some archaic formulas (see below)? I
must say I don't know much about how the ancient Romans gave their
oaths. Are there some survived formulas that were used in the Roman
republic?

>Ego, NN hoc ipso facto
>sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper
>pro Novae Romae Populo atque Senatu agere.

-What's the rection of "iurare"?
-"decus", shouldn't this be "decorem" (because it's the 3. declination)

>Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego NN,
>Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae
>temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita
>persequi.

-"Ut" should be left out, I think, because magistratus as an
apposition is sufficient by itself to describe "as something"
-"persequi" equals almost to persecute, maybe "sequi" would be more appropriate
-"in" should be left out, I think, because "tempus" is an expression
of time in itself

>Ego NN Romanam religionem favere et defendere
>IVRO ut Novae Romae Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut
>eius status publicae religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat.

-"favere" should normally be arranged with dativus, thus "Romanae religioni"

>Praeterea ego NN IVRO quam optime fungi officium
>muneris X.

-What is the meaning of "quam" here?
-"fungi" should normally be arranged with ablativus, thus "officio"

>Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque deabus
>et eorum voluntate et favore, munus X ACCIPIO una cum
>iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus comportat.

-"munus", shouldn't this be "munerem" (because it's the 3. declination)
-I didn't quite understand the last line (iuribus ... comportat)


Vale,
--


Emilia Curia Finnica
Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Aedilis Plebis

Salvete Quirites.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> A very interesting site! There is an entire large room and a
> presentation dedicated to this at the Gallo-Roman museum of
> Tongeren Belgium with fancy lights and about 50 of the 50 dede....
> Oops, I've forgotten the English name of it...
> My theory is that it is a children's toy :-)
> Vale,
> Diana

Now that you mention theories... :-).
I also have my own theory. Not long ago, I saw a photograph of one of
those artifacts. It had the symbols of the zodiac marked in its
faces!

Think about it. A dodecaedron (I think that that is its English
name ;-) ) has twelve faces, and there are twelve signs in the
zodiac. I think that it was the tool of an astrologer :-).

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve, excelent Aedile,

The oath on latin was translated by the illustrious interpreter Salix
Davianus, great friend, awesome magistrate, honor of Nova Roma. I´ve
just uploaded it on NR site and filled the blanks when use the oath.
Better ask him about the declinations... on my poor knowledge,
neither I see patterns of modern latin... much less archaic! :)

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Emilia Curia Finnica <e.curia@w...>
wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I just happened to quickly look at the official Nova Roman oath
> formula in Latin and I noticed some details that were a bit
> surprising. Are they taken from some archaic formulas (see below)?

I

> must say I don't know much about how the ancient Romans gave their
> oaths. Are there some survived formulas that were used in the Roman
> republic?
>
>
> >Ego, NN hoc ipso facto
> >sollemniter IVRO Novae Romae decus defendere et semper
> >pro Novae Romae Populo atque Senatu agere.
>
> -What's the rection of "iurare"?
> -"decus", shouldn't this be "decorem" (because it's the 3.

declination)

>
> >Ut Novae Romae magistratus ego NN,
> >Romae deos deasque colere IVRO in omnibus publicae vitae
> >temporibus atque Romanas virtutes et publica et privata vita
> >persequi.
>
> -"Ut" should be left out, I think, because magistratus as an
> apposition is sufficient by itself to describe "as something"
> -"persequi" equals almost to persecute, maybe "sequi" would be more

appropriate

> -"in" should be left out, I think, because "tempus" is an

expression

> of time in itself
>
> >Ego NN Romanam religionem favere et defendere
> >IVRO ut Novae Romae Reipublicae religionem et numquam agere ita ut
> >eius status publicae religionis aliquid detrimenti capiat.
>
> -"favere" should normally be arranged with dativus, thus "Romanae

religioni"

>
> >Praeterea ego NN IVRO quam optime fungi officium
> >muneris X.
>
> -What is the meaning of "quam" here?
> -"fungi" should normally be arranged with ablativus, thus "officio"
>
> >Meo Novae Romae civis honore et coram Populi Romani deis atque

deabus

> >et eorum voluntate et favore, munus X ACCIPIO una cum
> >iuribus, privilegiis. munera atque officia quae meum munus

comportat.

>
> -"munus", shouldn't this be "munerem" (because it's the 3.

declination)

> -I didn't quite understand the last line (iuribus ... comportat)
>
>
> Vale,
> --
>
>
> Emilia Curia Finnica
> Scriba Araniae Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Aedilis Plebis

L. Arminius Faustus Tribunus omnia quiritibus plus salutat

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-v.html


New Magistrates, on ianuary, pay attention to Lex Arminia de Rationem Edictibus. I adress you to go to tabularium, or contact your predecessor, and make a list of the past edicta to re-issue it if you desire, on contrary the past edictas will not be valid.


Vale bene in pacem deorum,



---------------------------------
Central anti-spam do Yahoo! Mail: com dicas, dúvidas e curiosidades!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

> Salvete;
>
> Fr. Apulus, according to the Constitution of Nova Roma the duties

of a Quaestor are as follows, "...One quaestor shall be assigned to
each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such cannot be
made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall have the
power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned..."

>
> Additionally, under the definition of Aediles Curules it

states, "To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as he shall see fit."

>
> A Quaestor is a financial representative. If the magistrate

chooses to delegate additional responsibilities to their quaestor
then that is their right. However, the duties of a Quaestor are
spelled out in our constitution. To insinuate that a Quastor
has "other" duties -- not spelled out in our constitution -- is
unconstitutional.

>
> If a magistrate desires to have his quaestor act as his personal

advisor then that too is the magistrates personal choice. But the
citizens should not VOTE on an office because one candidate is
located at a specific location or of a specific macro-nationality.
We are all citizens together in the Republic of Nova Roma.

>
> I support the Magna Mater project -- what I know of it. However,

if the Propraetor of Italia is going to advocate for members of his
province being elected simply because the are from Provincia Italia,
then perhaps Provincia Italia should provide the sole source of
funding for the project.

>
> In closing, I counter your statement. A questors responsibilities

are 100% financial, according to our Constitution.

>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Tribunus Plebis
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2004 8:55:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

sacro_barese_impero@l... writes:

>
> > At the end, what I mean is that the new Quaestor would have
> > 25% of
> > probabities to accomplish financial and economical duties.
> >
> > Vale
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salvete omnes,

as you probably know I've promised, as candidate for the position of
Aedile Curule, to follow (among other topics) the Nova Roman project
of the Magna Mater. This will be done also thanks to the
collaboration with my colleague Senior Aedile G Iulius Scaurus.

This year I'm planning to get at least two important goals for the
project:
- rasing as much as possible money for the project; it will be
gathered in the new Aedilian fund, under the control of the Senate.
The quaestor, I'm going to cooperate with, will probably have this
duty.
- create the official website where people working in the Palatine
area and in the offices of the University of Rome will write
text/collaborate. We already had important connections with both of
them.

We have now two great candidates:
- one has a great reputation, for the importance of her previous work
inside NR; I've never worked with her but I have many witnesses who
says this;
- the other person: I met him many times and cooperated with him on
different topics inside our provincia. He has made connections for us
with some important scholars.

First I thought about Sulla because he could involve these scholars
in the academic network we wish to create around the Magna Mater
project.
It's clear that I would choose, among the other, a friend who could
come with me there, to talk with this people, and, why not, go alone
sometime when it won't be possible for me. Sulla has expressed his
interest in the Nova Roman project and his availability of time to
come from Pisa to Rome, as already happened several times in the past.
He's also a person who is only a low-cost phone call away. And a
person with whom I could speak in my native language without any
problems of misunderstanding, as an exchange of emails or my not
perfect English could induce.

That's why it seems to me that Lucius Iulius Sulla could be better
for the position of Quaestor.

valete

M IVL PERVSIANVS
Aedile Curule

LOL, thanks ;-)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Caius Minucius Scaevola Trajan Justinian SD.
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 05:14:28PM -0000, Trajan Justinian wrote:
> > Since today is the last day of the year globally (National,

Federal,

> > International, Calander-wise)in the Eastern US, I wish you all a

very

> > Happy, Healthy and Prosperous new year.
> >
> > Chinese New Year will be the 22nd of January and we will be

entering

> > the year of the Monkey
> > Goddess/Witches New Year began November first
> > The Hebrew new year was Rosh Hoshana Septeber 27
> > Islamic New Year was sometime in March
> > The Myan New Year was sometime last week
> >
> > I'm sure there are a few other new year markers out there for

various

> > faiths and traditions but I do not know them.
>
> [grin] Here are a just a few you might have missed:
>
> <http://www.ecben.net/calendar.shtml>
>
> ("A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two

is

> never sure.")
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

=-

> Amicus verus est rara avis.
> A true friend is a rare bird.
> -- N/A

>Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0000
> From: "Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@...>
>Subject: Re:
>Les_dodécaèdres__gallo-romains_ajourés_et_bouletés_[Openwork_and_Overshot_Gallo-
>
>Salvete Quirites.
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
><sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:
>
>> A very interesting site! There is an entire large room and a
>> presentation dedicated to this at the Gallo-Roman museum of
>> Tongeren Belgium with fancy lights and about 50 of the 50 dede....
>> Oops, I've forgotten the English name of it...
>> My theory is that it is a children's toy :-)
>> Vale,
>> Diana
>
>Now that you mention theories... :-).
>I also have my own theory. Not long ago, I saw a photograph of one of
>those artifacts. It had the symbols of the zodiac marked in its
>faces!
>
>Think about it. A dodecaedron (I think that that is its English
>name ;-) ) has twelve faces, and there are twelve signs in the
>zodiac. I think that it was the tool of an astrologer :-).
>
>S.V.B.E.E.V.
>CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Salve,

You guessed I could not avoid commenting this? ;-)

I saw the object in question (or was it a
replica?) at the museum in Tongeren. Interesting
was that the museum guide told us that there has
been a lot them found. I'm not sure was that
there has been findings all over the empire or
was just the Northern side of Mediterranean
empire, but anyway, numerous of those has been
found.

About it being of any use to astrologer I found
difficult to concur. I think that the signs have
just decorational/symbolical value there. All the
holes on the object were different size and
regularly shaped, this would indicate that they
had some function. In order it to be tool for
astrologer the sizes of those holes should have
some connection to the signs presented each side,
and also to be of some concrete use for some
task. I fail to see how the circular holes would
help astrologer in his work, mathematical tables
are much more useful. It can of course be some
lost tradition, but still it would have to be
something very peculiar, as astrology in itself
does not contain any practises requiring
measuring of physical objects, rather it's a work
for theoretic and mathematican.

My guess is that the object which name I shall
not try to write in English (it's called
dodekaedri in Finnish) has been use some
profession in connect with magical rites or
something similar, e.g. doctors measuring
quantity of herbs/medicine etc. and zodiac signs
would be thus linked into it without connection
to the actual astrology.

Vale,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Quaestor
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

---

Salvete Sacredos Modius Omnesque:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

> Salvete;
>
> Fr. Apulus, according to the Constitution of Nova Roma the duties of

a Quaestor are as follows, "...One quaestor shall be assigned to each
of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such cannot be made,
by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall have the power
and obligation to administer those funds that shall be allocated to
them by the Senate in its annual budget under the supervision of that
magistrate to whom they are assigned..."

>
> Additionally, under the definition of Aediles Curules it states, "To

appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and other
tasks, as he shall see fit."

>
> A Quaestor is a financial representative. If the magistrate chooses

to delegate additional responsibilities to their quaestor then that is
their right. However, the duties of a Quaestor are spelled out in our
constitution. To insinuate that a Quastor has "other" duties -- not
spelled out in our constitution -- is unconstitutional.

Pompeia Respondeo: I don't know that Senator Apulus was insinuating
that there are other obligatory duties; he is speculating that since
he thinks that other Quaestors have already been assigned, that this
newly elected Quaestor might be assigned to an aedile. That is
speculation pursuant to the constitution and general mission of NR, as
I read it, not a statement in antagonism of its language.

Further, he is, as a former Quaestor, digressing that since Aedilar
Quaestorship doesn't not entail a good deal of financial duty, such
magistrate often has free time to assist with the duties of the
Aedile...not that he 'has' to, but that the time is available for such
a magistrate to so do.

>
> If a magistrate desires to have his quaestor act as his personal

advisor then that too is the magistrates personal choice. But the
citizens should not VOTE on an office because one candidate is located
at a specific location or of a specific macro-nationality. We are all
citizens together in the Republic of Nova Roma.

Pompeia respondeo: Theoretically, you are correct. But there is
nothing wrong with speculation as to where and what a Quaestor might
end up doing in Nova Roma, and which magistrates he might be serving,
given that this is a secondary election looking for one Quaestor.

>
> I support the Magna Mater project -- what I know of it. However, if

the Propraetor of Italia is going to advocate for members of his
province being elected simply because the are from Provincia Italia,
then perhaps Provincia Italia should provide the sole source of
funding for the project.

Pompeia respondeo: I believe more mention was made of the Magna Mater
project, which by circumstance, happens to involve several members of
Italia Provincia, which is a secondary circumstance, really. The
Aedilician fund is not Italian in nature. The Magna Mater is for the
benefit of all of Nova Roma.

So Senator/propraetor Apulus' 'insinuations' based on his experience
and calculated speculations are perfectly legit and not
anticonstitutional. I think your language is rather strong, Modius,
with due respect.

And further,Quaestor hopeful Sulla has done insatiable amounts of work
in both his provincia and Magna Mater. I know this from being on
Provincia Italia list until fairly recently, where I unsubbed for a
bit due to lack of time. That Sulla is willing to do 'other stuff'
above and beyond the call of duty as Quaestor is not to me, a bad
thing; that his experience, financial, is pertinent to Nova Roma is
also to me 'not a bad thing'. Matter of fact, these factors 'add up',
no pun intended :) to qualifications and enthusiams inherent in a good
magistrate, and one who deserves weighted consideration this election
as Quaestor of Nova Roma, no?

>
> In closing, I counter your statement. A questors responsibilities

are 100% financial, according to our Constitution.

Pompeia respondeo: See above. No disagreement there. But when one
has proven to be a team player, and has already demonstrated
willingness to do other stuff, as a support to the magistrate he
'might' serve, that is a bonus for Nova Roma, pursuant to the mission
of Nova Roma, as well as consitutional in terms of fulfilling
financial duties.

Valete,
P. Cornelia

>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Tribunus Plebis
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2004 8:55:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

sacro_barese_impero@l... writes:

>
> > At the end, what I mean is that the new Quaestor would have
> > 25% of
> > probabities to accomplish financial and economical duties.
> >
> > Vale
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salvete,

Dixit Diana :

PS to Laureatus Moravius-- run for Quaestor! Now you won't have to run
against your Materfamilias :-)

Respondeo : But I'll still be running against Diana and it wouldn't be a
nice feeling : Fly my pretty and get that office for old times'sake!

Valete

Moravius Laureatus

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Salvete,

The Pythagoreans considered the dodecahedron to have a mystic connection
to the cosmos. They attempted to supress knowledge of it for a time
until one of the Pythagoreans publicly revealed it. when this man
drowned they considered it devine retribution apon him for revealing the
secrect of the sphere with 12 sides. Most likely the dodecahedrons are
connected to the Pythagoreans.

Intrestingly one of the newer theories of the Universe is that it's
finate and shapped like a dodecahedron.

L. Sicinius Drusus


Caius Curius Saturninus wrote:

> >Message: 9
> > Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:21:36 -0000
> > From: "Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@...>
> >Subject: Re:
> >Les_dodécaèdres__gallo-romains_ajourés_et_bouletés_[Openwork_and_Overshot_Gallo-
> >
> >Salvete Quirites.
> >
> >--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
> ><sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:
> >
> >> A very interesting site! There is an entire large room and a
> >> presentation dedicated to this at the Gallo-Roman museum of
> >> Tongeren Belgium with fancy lights and about 50 of the 50 dede....
> >> Oops, I've forgotten the English name of it...
> >> My theory is that it is a children's toy :-)
> >> Vale,
> >> Diana
> >
> >Now that you mention theories... :-).
> >I also have my own theory. Not long ago, I saw a photograph of one of
> >those artifacts. It had the symbols of the zodiac marked in its
> >faces!
> >
> >Think about it. A dodecaedron (I think that that is its English
> >name ;-) ) has twelve faces, and there are twelve signs in the
> >zodiac. I think that it was the tool of an astrologer :-).
> >
> >S.V.B.E.E.V.
> >CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR
>
> Salve,
>
> You guessed I could not avoid commenting this? ;-)
>
> I saw the object in question (or was it a
> replica?) at the museum in Tongeren. Interesting
> was that the museum guide told us that there has
> been a lot them found. I'm not sure was that
> there has been findings all over the empire or
> was just the Northern side of Mediterranean
> empire, but anyway, numerous of those has been
> found.
>
> About it being of any use to astrologer I found
> difficult to concur. I think that the signs have
> just decorational/symbolical value there. All the
> holes on the object were different size and
> regularly shaped, this would indicate that they
> had some function. In order it to be tool for
> astrologer the sizes of those holes should have
> some connection to the signs presented each side,
> and also to be of some concrete use for some
> task. I fail to see how the circular holes would
> help astrologer in his work, mathematical tables
> are much more useful. It can of course be some
> lost tradition, but still it would have to be
> something very peculiar, as astrology in itself
> does not contain any practises requiring
> measuring of physical objects, rather it's a work
> for theoretic and mathematican.
>
> My guess is that the object which name I shall
> not try to write in English (it's called
> dodekaedri in Finnish) has been use some
> profession in connect with magical rites or
> something similar, e.g. doctors measuring
> quantity of herbs/medicine etc. and zodiac signs
> would be thus linked into it without connection
> to the actual astrology.
>
> Vale,
> --
>
> Caius Curius Saturninus
>
> Quaestor
> Legatus Regionis Finnicae
> Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
> Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
> www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
> gsm: +358-50-3315279
> fax: +358-9-8754751
>
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>

This is pretty interesting...
* * * * *

Did West Nile Conquer Alexander the Great?
December 17, 2003 06:03:06 AM PST , HealthDay

By Randy Dotinga
HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, Dec. 17 (HealthDayNews) -- For more than 2,300 years,
historians have been trying to diagnose the mystery illness that
struck down Alexander the Great, one of most powerful men of all
time. The long list of suspects includes poison, plague, polio and
typhoid fever.
Now, armed with a computerized analysis of ancient clues,
researchers are blaming a seemingly modern malady -- the West Nile
virus.

Alexander's symptoms closely match those caused by West Nile, and
the researchers think it's possible the disease has existed in the
Middle East for millennia. The possible clincher in the case,
however, has more to do with man's feathered friends than the
general's medical history.

Contemporary accounts report that ravens flew into Babylon and died
at Alexander's feet before his own death. West Nile disease, which
became famous only after it hit New York City in 1999, also strikes
birds, especially crows and jays -- and ravens. To two professors,
this spells a solution to the Alexander mystery.

"What you've got is a couple of old gomers talking about things that
happened 2,000 years ago, and a couple of years ago putting it all
together," says self-deprecating study co-author Charles H.
Calisher, an infectious diseases expert at Colorado State
University.

At the time of his death at the age of 32 or 33, the Greek emperor
Alexander ruled an empire stretching across Africa, Asia and Europe,
making him perhaps history's greatest conqueror. "This guy went
around and killed people. That's what he did for a living," Calisher
says. "He captured slaves and took all their gold and belongings and
women. You know what history is about. It's a mess, people not
minding their own business."

However, things began going south in Alexander's life before his
illness became obvious. "A lot of people thought he was becoming
crazy, or at least a megalomaniac," says Rutgers University
professor of ancient history Jack Cargill. "He is supposed to have
killed one of his friends in a moment of drunken anger. He had begun
to see plots everywhere, and seeing people plot against him. A lot
of people got executed who weren't trying to kill him."

Alexander didn't exactly lead a quiet life. He drank, fooled around
and got burned (his male lover had recently died), and, of course,
he was always running around conquering people. "I just figured he
abused his body and died young from all the stress he'd been put
under, all the battles, all the wounds," Cargill says. "He was like
the Hank Williams of his day."

Luckily for historians, Alexander's contemporaries kept a close eye
on his physical deterioration, although ordinary citizens were
spared the level of detail that accompany the bouts of modern-day
American presidents.

This much is clear: Alexander became ill upon returning to ancient
Babylon, near present-day Baghdad. He developed a fever and chills,
became delirious and finally died after two weeks of misery.

What killed him? Calisher and co-author John S. Marr, an
epidemiologist at the Virginia Department of Health, analyzed the
case and report their findings in the December issue of the journal
Emerging Infectious Diseases.

Alexander didn't have high approval ratings among ancient big shots,
so the possibility of murder has long intrigued scholars, including
Plutarch, who thought Aristotle -- yes, that Aristotle -- killed the
man he tutored. But the authors reject that possibility because
poisons available at the time didn't cause long periods of fever.

They also discount other diseases because Alexander didn't have
their major symptoms, including intermittent fevers (malaria) and
cough and diarrhea (typhoid fever).

The little-noticed death of the ravens may have solved the mystery,
Calisher says. West Nile virus is carried by mosquitoes and strikes
humans, horses and birds, which become "little bags of virus." Other
mosquitoes feast on the birds, fill up with virus-laden blood, and
go off to bite humans.

While the disease became famous after striking the New York City
region, it was actually discovered in 1937 in Uganda. Calisher
suspects it may have been around for much longer.

A computer analysis of Alexander's symptoms suggested that influenza
was the most likely killer, but there were no reports of a flu
epidemic at the time. When the computer was told that the disease
was carried by birds, it pointed to West Nile.

Once Alexander was infected, the virus apparently made its way to
his brain, causing swelling and weakness that left him unable to
move. Doctors were just as helpless as they are now. "All you do is
treat the symptoms and hope for the best," Calisher says. "Either
they recover or they don't."

Alexander didn't. Would-be emperors fought over the spoils. Within
about 20 years, his empire fell apart. "A lot of people think he
wouldn't have been able to hold it together, even with his own
charisma, but he didn't live long enough to show that one way or
another," Cargill says.

And what of the disease that vanquished the conqueror? If it was
indeed the West Nile virus, it survived to threaten us today.

Now that was a catching title, lol.
Very interesting article (especially for me living here in the
Hamptons on the East end of Long Island).
In Alexander's case though, would it have been called East Nile
considering demographics? LOL ;-D.
Vale and again, interesting article.
Justinian

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia"
<arnamentia_aurelia@y...> wrote:

> This is pretty interesting...
> * * * * *
>
> Did West Nile Conquer Alexander the Great?
> December 17, 2003 06:03:06 AM PST , HealthDay
>
> By Randy Dotinga
> HealthDay Reporter
>
> WEDNESDAY, Dec. 17 (HealthDayNews) -- For more than 2,300 years,
> historians have been trying to diagnose the mystery illness that
> struck down Alexander the Great, one of most powerful men of all
> time. The long list of suspects includes poison, plague, polio and
> typhoid fever.
> Now, armed with a computerized analysis of ancient clues,
> researchers are blaming a seemingly modern malady -- the West Nile
> virus.
>
> Alexander's symptoms closely match those caused by West Nile, and
> the researchers think it's possible the disease has existed in the
> Middle East for millennia. The possible clincher in the case,
> however, has more to do with man's feathered friends than the
> general's medical history.
>
> Contemporary accounts report that ravens flew into Babylon and died
> at Alexander's feet before his own death. West Nile disease, which
> became famous only after it hit New York City in 1999, also strikes
> birds, especially crows and jays -- and ravens. To two professors,
> this spells a solution to the Alexander mystery.
>
> "What you've got is a couple of old gomers talking about things

that

> happened 2,000 years ago, and a couple of years ago putting it all
> together," says self-deprecating study co-author Charles H.
> Calisher, an infectious diseases expert at Colorado State
> University.
>
> At the time of his death at the age of 32 or 33, the Greek emperor
> Alexander ruled an empire stretching across Africa, Asia and

Europe,

> making him perhaps history's greatest conqueror. "This guy went
> around and killed people. That's what he did for a living,"

Calisher

> says. "He captured slaves and took all their gold and belongings

and

> women. You know what history is about. It's a mess, people not
> minding their own business."
>
> However, things began going south in Alexander's life before his
> illness became obvious. "A lot of people thought he was becoming
> crazy, or at least a megalomaniac," says Rutgers University
> professor of ancient history Jack Cargill. "He is supposed to have
> killed one of his friends in a moment of drunken anger. He had

begun

> to see plots everywhere, and seeing people plot against him. A lot
> of people got executed who weren't trying to kill him."
>
> Alexander didn't exactly lead a quiet life. He drank, fooled around
> and got burned (his male lover had recently died), and, of course,
> he was always running around conquering people. "I just figured he
> abused his body and died young from all the stress he'd been put
> under, all the battles, all the wounds," Cargill says. "He was like
> the Hank Williams of his day."
>
> Luckily for historians, Alexander's contemporaries kept a close eye
> on his physical deterioration, although ordinary citizens were
> spared the level of detail that accompany the bouts of modern-day
> American presidents.
>
> This much is clear: Alexander became ill upon returning to ancient
> Babylon, near present-day Baghdad. He developed a fever and chills,
> became delirious and finally died after two weeks of misery.
>
> What killed him? Calisher and co-author John S. Marr, an
> epidemiologist at the Virginia Department of Health, analyzed the
> case and report their findings in the December issue of the journal
> Emerging Infectious Diseases.
>
> Alexander didn't have high approval ratings among ancient big

shots,

> so the possibility of murder has long intrigued scholars, including
> Plutarch, who thought Aristotle -- yes, that Aristotle -- killed

the

> man he tutored. But the authors reject that possibility because
> poisons available at the time didn't cause long periods of fever.
>
> They also discount other diseases because Alexander didn't have
> their major symptoms, including intermittent fevers (malaria) and
> cough and diarrhea (typhoid fever).
>
> The little-noticed death of the ravens may have solved the mystery,
> Calisher says. West Nile virus is carried by mosquitoes and strikes
> humans, horses and birds, which become "little bags of virus."

Other

> mosquitoes feast on the birds, fill up with virus-laden blood, and
> go off to bite humans.
>
> While the disease became famous after striking the New York City
> region, it was actually discovered in 1937 in Uganda. Calisher
> suspects it may have been around for much longer.
>
> A computer analysis of Alexander's symptoms suggested that

influenza

> was the most likely killer, but there were no reports of a flu
> epidemic at the time. When the computer was told that the disease
> was carried by birds, it pointed to West Nile.
>
> Once Alexander was infected, the virus apparently made its way to
> his brain, causing swelling and weakness that left him unable to
> move. Doctors were just as helpless as they are now. "All you do is
> treat the symptoms and hope for the best," Calisher says. "Either
> they recover or they don't."
>
> Alexander didn't. Would-be emperors fought over the spoils. Within
> about 20 years, his empire fell apart. "A lot of people think he
> wouldn't have been able to hold it together, even with his own
> charisma, but he didn't live long enough to show that one way or
> another," Cargill says.
>
> And what of the disease that vanquished the conqueror? If it was
> indeed the West Nile virus, it survived to threaten us today.

Salve Franciscus Apulus,

<So usually the lucky Quaestores serving the Aediles are obliged to
<organize the Cohors, project edicta and help the Aediles to organize
<Ludi and Meetings. Of course, very important and useful jobs for the
<Aediles, but nothing about financial issues...

Where in the Consitution does it say that the above is there job desciption? Are you a Tribune or
not? Tribunes go 'by the book'. If you are correcting me based on something that is not in the
Constitution then I suggest that you go back and study it as I advised you last week before you
officially took office.

Vale,
Diana

Salve P. Cornelia;

Sounds like what Iulius Sulla is best suited at is being an Aedilian Scribae
designated to work on the Magna Mater project. As I have stated, Quaestors
are financial magistrates.

I suspect that both Iulius Sulla and Diana Octivia would make fine quaestors.
However, I do not like the office of quaestor linked with the Magna Mater
project (something that I know very little about, and I am sure I am not the
only citizen who feels in the dark about this project).

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/5/2004 1:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
scriba_forum@... writes:
And further,Quaestor hopeful Sulla has done insatiable amounts of work
in both his provincia and Magna Mater. I know this from being on
Provincia Italia list until fairly recently, where I unsubbed for a
bit due to lack of time. That Sulla is willing to do 'other stuff'
above and beyond the call of duty as Quaestor is not to me, a bad
thing; that his experience, financial, is pertinent to Nova Roma is
also to me 'not a bad thing'. Matter of fact, these factors 'add up',
no pun intended :) to qualifications and enthusiams inherent in a good
magistrate, and one who deserves weighted consideration this election
as Quaestor of Nova Roma, no?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Modius Athanasius Marco Iulio Perusiano SPD

It sounds like you need a good scribae, this is mandated in the Constitution
and you have every right as a Curule Aedile to appoint Sulla as a scribe. You
could very easily give him the responsibility of raising money for the fund,
and other activities you deem appropriate.

A Quaestor is a financial magistrate, not a go between to Universities and
other agencies.

You, and others, are advocating for a man from Italia province to be Quaestor
simply because he lives close to you, speaks Italian, and is involved in the
Magna Mater project. What about next year? Is Nova Roma going to HAVE to
elect an Italian Curule Aedile, and an Italian Quaestor? This sets a precedence
that I do not think is appropriate.

A quaestor is a financial magistrate, not a catch all assistant to the
magistrate they work with. They do not take an oath of servitude to the magistrate
they are assigned to, they are not a scribe.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Tribunus Plebis

In a message dated 1/5/2004 11:02:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
m_iulius@... writes:
First I thought about Sulla because he could involve these scholars
in the academic network we wish to create around the Magna Mater
project.
It's clear that I would choose, among the other, a friend who could
come with me there, to talk with this people, and, why not, go alone
sometime when it won't be possible for me. Sulla has expressed his
interest in the Nova Roman project and his availability of time to
come from Pisa to Rome, as already happened several times in the past.
He's also a person who is only a low-cost phone call away. And a
person with whom I could speak in my native language without any
problems of misunderstanding, as an exchange of emails or my not
perfect English could induce.

That's why it seems to me that Lucius Iulius Sulla could be better
for the position of Quaestor.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I have seen a great deal of fuss concerning Quaestors and this Magna Mater thing. Could someone please explain what the Magna Mater is? I gather it is something to do with the Palantine hill in Rome.....

Thanks in advance for the answer.

Vale,




Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni
Paterfamilias, gens Bianchia
Quaestor, Nova Roma

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Gai Modi;
so you feel more comfortable with the Moravaia, no Octavia a
priestess & materfamilia who dumped her Gens with no replacement? The
head of the Gens is also repsonsible for the prayers for the entire
Gens, but perhaps she is ignorant of that.
As for the Magna Mater project, why don't you ask someone? I did,
are you a new citizen? or somehow not interested? It is about
restoring Roma Aeterna, something we are all devoted to...
vale P. Fabia Vera


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

> Salve P. Cornelia;
>
> Sounds like what Iulius Sulla is best suited at is being an

Aedilian Scribae

> designated to work on the Magna Mater project. As I have stated,

Quaestors

> are financial magistrates.
>
> I suspect that both Iulius Sulla and Diana Octivia would make fine

quaestors.

> However, I do not like the office of quaestor linked with the

Magna Mater

> project (something that I know very little about, and I am sure I

am not the

> only citizen who feels in the dark about this project).
>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. LANIUS FALCO Quirtibus SPD

Salvete omnes,

I am inviting any and all cives who reside in the four counties of western
Massachusetts to join with me in establishing a local community of Nova Roma
according to the Lex Fabia de Oppidis et Municipiis. If you live in Berkshire,
Franklin, Hampshire, or Hampden counties I would love to hear from you
regarding this opportunity. There are many ways we can share our love of ancient Rome
but they certainly take on much more meaning if we can meet face-to-face.

Let me know if you are interested in helping to start our own community this
year!

Valete,

G. Lanius Falco
Legatus Provincia Nova Britannia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>Moravia; (sic) I used to balance 4 billion dollars within 8 hours

each day, that comes to 8,333,333,33 dollars

> per minute. Considering that NR could only have a maximum treasury

of 4800 (2000 citizens paying

> the maximum of 12 dollars taxes each year) I think that you don't

need to be a math whiz to figure

> out that this small amount would be done by me in seconds :-) That

leaves plenty of time left for

> the Gods.
>
> Fabia: Excuse me, I only had tax class in Law School which I humbly

did not do too well in (the math) but by my calculation; 10 x 2,000
=20,000 and 2 x 2,000 = 4,000
which means NR would have a treasury of 24,000 thousand dollars,
not 4,800 hundred dollars.

I won't comment on your handling of Billions, but you seem unable to
multiply correctly. And you want to be Questor?

vale Fabia Vera

I hope that everyone had a pleasant and happy Saturnalia/Yule/
Solstice/Kwanzaa/Hannukah/Christmas holiday and a happy New Year
Celebration.

During the last six months or so, my posts on the mainlist have been
described in many different ways--funny, insulting, witty, boorish,
political, apolitical, informative, thoughtful, thoughtless, though -
provoking, friendly, hateful, threatening, diplomatic, and tactless--
by many different citizens. Some of you have been by friends since
I joined, others have become my friends or gensmates, and I've lost
a couple of friends. Then there are those who have never been a
friend of mine or are now an enemy. To those who are my friends, I
thank you for your support, affections, and respect despite my
occasional lapses of good behavior or judgement.

To those that are my enemies, I extend an olive branch for the
coming year that we may lapse into an uneasy cease fire with
occasional sniping rather than the constant skirmishes and battles
between individuals who pretty much loath and despise one another.

Soon I have to take my oath of office as rogator and the nature of
that oath will bind me from engaging in the public fun-and-games of
the last several months. This makes it very important for those who
see my posts as merely being personally vindictive and without merit
to understand that I have spent the last week or so in quiet
contemplation and thinking about the need for a Rogator to show an
absolute impartiality in their public life and demonstrating
restraint and tact.

The new year offers the opportunity for our organization to grow
into the REAL world by forming new groups and meeting each other in
our provinces and macronational countries. It is also a time to
begin to discuss the purchase/rental/use of land for Nova Roma (in
each macronational country or province) or use of historical/nature
sites for events. Now is the time for more citizens to flesh out
their Romitas by reading, corresponding with other, joining the
sodalites, going to museums and lectures about Rome, getting
together with 2 or 3 local citizens for a convivium or collegia, and
going to pagan gatherings to share the Religio with other pagans
(who may become new citizens). I encourage all those citizens (and
other Romanophiles) who live with in the Middle Tennessee, Southern
Kentucky, and Northern Alabama area to get in touch with me soon
about holding some collegia/convivium events in 2004.

It is likely to be easier to keep these events unofficial to avoid
legal complications and requirements. Nova Roma will be stronger
with 50 groups of 3-4 citizens who get together regularly in
unofficial collegiae than with 5 groups of 10 citizens who only get
together once or twice a year. The small local groups will be able
to hold semi-annual regional events to bring in even more members
and ultimately the idea of the Roman Summer Camp with hundreds of
citizens could be accomplished.

I pray that Nova Roma will enjoy a great year for 2757 and that much
will be accomplisted. Valete.

I hope that everyone had a pleasant and happy Saturnalia/Yule/
Solstice/Kwanzaa/Hannukah/Christmas holiday and a happy New Year
Celebration.

During the last six months or so, my posts on the mainlist have been
described in many different ways--funny, insulting, witty, boorish,
political, apolitical, informative, thoughtful, thoughtless, though -
provoking, friendly, hateful, threatening, diplomatic, and tactless--
by many different citizens. Some of you have been by friends since
I joined, others have become my friends or gensmates, and I've lost
a couple of friends. Then there are those who have never been a
friend of mine or are now an enemy. To those who are my friends, I
thank you for your support, affections, and respect despite my
occasional lapses of good behavior or judgement.

To those that are my enemies, I extend an olive branch for the
coming year that we may lapse into an uneasy cease fire with
occasional sniping rather than the constant skirmishes and battles
between individuals who pretty much loath and despise one another.

Soon I have to take my oath of office as rogator and the nature of
that oath will bind me from engaging in the public fun-and-games of
the last several months. This makes it very important for those who
see my posts as merely being personally vindictive and without merit
to understand that I have spent the last week or so in quiet
contemplation and thinking about the need for a Rogator to show an
absolute impartiality in their public life and demonstrating
restraint and tact.

The new year offers the opportunity for our organization to grow
into the REAL world by forming new groups and meeting each other in
our provinces and macronational countries. It is also a time to
begin to discuss the purchase/rental/use of land for Nova Roma (in
each macronational country or province) or use of historical/nature
sites for events. Now is the time for more citizens to flesh out
their Romitas by reading, corresponding with other, joining the
sodalites, going to museums and lectures about Rome, getting
together with 2 or 3 local citizens for a convivium or collegia, and
going to pagan gatherings to share the Religio with other pagans
(who may become new citizens). I encourage all those citizens (and
other Romanophiles) who live with in the Middle Tennessee, Southern
Kentucky, and Northern Alabama area to get in touch with me soon
about holding some collegia/convivium events in 2004.

It is likely to be easier to keep these events unofficial to avoid
legal complications and requirements. Nova Roma will be stronger
with 50 groups of 3-4 citizens who get together regularly in
unofficial collegiae than with 5 groups of 10 citizens who only get
together once or twice a year. The small local groups will be able
to hold semi-annual regional events to bring in even more members
and ultimately the idea of the Roman Summer Camp with hundreds of
citizens could be accomplished.

I pray that Nova Roma will enjoy a great year for 2757 and that much
will be accomplisted. Valete.

Oops. Sorry for the double send.

F Gal Aur Sec


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
<Patrick.Owen@s...> wrote:

> I hope that everyone had a pleasant and happy Saturnalia/Yule/
> Solstice/Kwanzaa/Hannukah/Christmas holiday and a happy New Year
> Celebration.
>
> During the last six months or so, my posts on the mainlist have

been

> described in many different ways--funny, insulting, witty,

boorish,

> political, apolitical, informative, thoughtful, thoughtless,

though -

> provoking, friendly, hateful, threatening, diplomatic, and

tactless--

> by many different citizens. Some of you have been by friends

since

> I joined, others have become my friends or gensmates, and I've

lost

> a couple of friends. Then there are those who have never been a
> friend of mine or are now an enemy. To those who are my friends,

I

> thank you for your support, affections, and respect despite my
> occasional lapses of good behavior or judgement.
>
> To those that are my enemies, I extend an olive branch for the
> coming year that we may lapse into an uneasy cease fire with
> occasional sniping rather than the constant skirmishes and battles
> between individuals who pretty much loath and despise one

another.

>
> Soon I have to take my oath of office as rogator and the nature of
> that oath will bind me from engaging in the public fun-and-games

of

> the last several months. This makes it very important for those

who

> see my posts as merely being personally vindictive and without

merit

> to understand that I have spent the last week or so in quiet
> contemplation and thinking about the need for a Rogator to show an
> absolute impartiality in their public life and demonstrating
> restraint and tact.
>
> The new year offers the opportunity for our organization to grow
> into the REAL world by forming new groups and meeting each other

in

> our provinces and macronational countries. It is also a time to
> begin to discuss the purchase/rental/use of land for Nova Roma (in
> each macronational country or province) or use of

historical/nature

> sites for events. Now is the time for more citizens to flesh out
> their Romitas by reading, corresponding with other, joining the
> sodalites, going to museums and lectures about Rome, getting
> together with 2 or 3 local citizens for a convivium or collegia,

and

> going to pagan gatherings to share the Religio with other pagans
> (who may become new citizens). I encourage all those citizens

(and

> other Romanophiles) who live with in the Middle Tennessee,

Southern

> Kentucky, and Northern Alabama area to get in touch with me soon
> about holding some collegia/convivium events in 2004.
>
> It is likely to be easier to keep these events unofficial to avoid
> legal complications and requirements. Nova Roma will be stronger
> with 50 groups of 3-4 citizens who get together regularly in
> unofficial collegiae than with 5 groups of 10 citizens who only

get

> together once or twice a year. The small local groups will be

able

> to hold semi-annual regional events to bring in even more members
> and ultimately the idea of the Roman Summer Camp with hundreds of
> citizens could be accomplished.
>
> I pray that Nova Roma will enjoy a great year for 2757 and that

much

> will be accomplisted. Valete.

Salve,
I have always found you to be a model Roman full of wit, humor and
intelligence; I always enjoy your posts and this one especially.
You demonstrate honorable intentions as always and the offering of
the olive branch is an incredible gesture.
Were I one of those who differed in oppinion and belief from you, I
would take that branch and extend one in return.
I will miss you in the fun and games portion but understand your new
position will inhibit that.
Congratulations on your position and I hope we can all emulate your
example as good Romans.
Be well,
Justinian


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
<Patrick.Owen@s...> wrote:

> I hope that everyone had a pleasant and happy Saturnalia/Yule/
> Solstice/Kwanzaa/Hannukah/Christmas holiday and a happy New Year
> Celebration.
>
> During the last six months or so, my posts on the mainlist have

been

> described in many different ways--funny, insulting, witty, boorish,
> political, apolitical, informative, thoughtful, thoughtless,

though -

> provoking, friendly, hateful, threatening, diplomatic, and tactless-

-

> by many different citizens. Some of you have been by friends since
> I joined, others have become my friends or gensmates, and I've lost
> a couple of friends. Then there are those who have never been a
> friend of mine or are now an enemy. To those who are my friends, I
> thank you for your support, affections, and respect despite my
> occasional lapses of good behavior or judgement.
>
> To those that are my enemies, I extend an olive branch for the
> coming year that we may lapse into an uneasy cease fire with
> occasional sniping rather than the constant skirmishes and battles
> between individuals who pretty much loath and despise one another.
>
> Soon I have to take my oath of office as rogator and the nature of
> that oath will bind me from engaging in the public fun-and-games of
> the last several months. This makes it very important for those

who

> see my posts as merely being personally vindictive and without

merit

> to understand that I have spent the last week or so in quiet
> contemplation and thinking about the need for a Rogator to show an
> absolute impartiality in their public life and demonstrating
> restraint and tact.
>
> The new year offers the opportunity for our organization to grow
> into the REAL world by forming new groups and meeting each other in
> our provinces and macronational countries. It is also a time to
> begin to discuss the purchase/rental/use of land for Nova Roma (in
> each macronational country or province) or use of historical/nature
> sites for events. Now is the time for more citizens to flesh out
> their Romitas by reading, corresponding with other, joining the
> sodalites, going to museums and lectures about Rome, getting
> together with 2 or 3 local citizens for a convivium or collegia,

and

> going to pagan gatherings to share the Religio with other pagans
> (who may become new citizens). I encourage all those citizens (and
> other Romanophiles) who live with in the Middle Tennessee, Southern
> Kentucky, and Northern Alabama area to get in touch with me soon
> about holding some collegia/convivium events in 2004.
>
> It is likely to be easier to keep these events unofficial to avoid
> legal complications and requirements. Nova Roma will be stronger
> with 50 groups of 3-4 citizens who get together regularly in
> unofficial collegiae than with 5 groups of 10 citizens who only get
> together once or twice a year. The small local groups will be able
> to hold semi-annual regional events to bring in even more members
> and ultimately the idea of the Roman Summer Camp with hundreds of
> citizens could be accomplished.
>
> I pray that Nova Roma will enjoy a great year for 2757 and that

much

> will be accomplisted. Valete.