Salvete Omnes,
as requested I explain you all shortly what is the Project of Magna Mater.

The Project of the Temple of Magna Mater born two years ago by the former
Curule Aedile Fabius Quintilianus and me. Honorating the Megalesia Ludi, we
found the original temple of the Goddess in the Palatine in Rome. We decided
to start a project of restoration of the temple searching the collaboration
of the interested Propraetores, the past Magistrates, priets and citizens.
We created a join declaration where everyone supported the project.
The project continued under my Aedileship in the past year and I involved
citizens the Illustrus Marcus Iulius Perusianus, Aurelia Iulia Pulchra,
Vopisca Iulius Cocceia, Caius Curius Saturininus, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus,
Lucius Iulius Sulla, Manius Costantinus Serapio, etc. We decided to improve
the project and try to give it a more important role for Nova Roma. Our
first goal was to try to restorate part of teh Temple but we understood that
this kind of actions should be very very expansive.
Iulius Perusianus wrote two important reports about the history of the cult,
the history of the Temple, the actual archeological situation of the Temple
and the referrers in Rome. He met the Sovrintendenza of Rome firstly
obtaining a good collaboration with the local public Istitution managing the
economical and burocratic affairs of teh Palatine. In the same time Serapio
and Quintilianus proposed to the Senate a new feature for the Curule Aedile,
the possibility to raise donations about a detailed project, in a Nova Roman
bank account and under the authorization and control of the Senate.
The sovrintenza of Rome gave us the name of the director of the
archeological areas of the Palatine informing us that the University La
Sapienza of Roma is directing the archeological parc. Perusianus met the
Director of teh palatine, the Illustrus prof. Pensabene, one of the most
important expert of the Palatine and of Magna Mater. The area is now closed
to the public because under restoration and archiviation, but Pensabene
permitted us to enter in this restricted area to check the status of the
Temple, visit it and make some unuffocial photos. We presented this dates
and photos during the last International Nova Roman Rally in Bologna to the
Consul Quintilianus.
The most important thing is that we obtained the close collaboration of
Pensabene and his assistent Doct. D'Alessio about the project having several
suggestions about our job.
In the last months the Senate approved my proposal to use the Aedilician
Fund to raise the donations for the project.

Now the situation is the follow. The archeological area where is the Temple
is restricted but we have the un-official authorization of prof. Pensabene
and we could ask an official permission to visit the area from the
Sovrintenza Archeological of Rome. We have all the informations about the
history of the building and some maps about it. We're searching further
informations about the cult of Magna Mater.
It's not possible to restorate the Temple now because it's covered by an
historical little wood. However in the future it's possible to restorate
some parts of the buildings.
With the University we have a good collaboration. Our first goal is create a
promotional and informative website about the project and the Temple. This
website should be managed by Nova Romans and a couple of experts of the
University of Rome. We're trying to have the official patrocine of the
University: in this way we could promote the project (and Nova Roma) to
other Universities in the world and create a network. The collaboration with
the University of Rome gives us an important credits and the access to the
informations about the Temple and the close archeological area.
We didn't started the fund-raise because we're waiting to know dates and
further informations about the bank account. But I think this is the first
goal of our new Curule Aedile Perusianus.

IMHO the project of Magna Mater is very important for Nova Roma because it
gives us credits in the academical world, it permits us to create a network
of experts, it permits us to create strong and close collaboration with the
most important archeological istitution in Rome, the University La Sapienza,
it gives us the possibility to increase our curriculum about live events and
actions, it permits us to accomplish one of our macro-goals, the protection
of the roman heritage, etc.

I hope to have not missed important informations. If you want further
informations please contact Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus which is
the new chief of the project.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
------------------------------
NOVA ROMA
------------------------------
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Italiae - http://italia.novaroma.org
Scriba et Accensus
Pater Familiae Gens Apula - http://italia.novaroma.org/apula/
Vicarius Academiae Italicae - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica/

Salve Pompeia,
thnak you very much for your help, you understood exactly what I said and
your explanation is what I mean.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Diana Octavia Aventina,

> Third? Technically second but as you know I only entered Gens Apollonius

temporarily due to a

> database error and at the specific request of Caeso Fabius so that I could

organize the NR Rally

> in Tongeren.

Sorry, Diana, I don't remember it but I suppose you're right.

> You and I were both his scriba's back then on his Cohors Aediles team.

Yes, I remember this and I remember that was a good and useful collaboration
thanking to the wonderful organization of our former Curule Aedile Fabius
Quintilianus too.
However I was sad to not have been at the Rally of Tongeren... :-(

> My reason for becoming a citizen of Gens Octavia is that I think Octavius

is great. I've never

> kept that a secret and really it is a simple as that. I now have the

priviledge of bearing the

> name of someone that I admire greatly.
>
> A few citizens think that this was done in a rush-- it wasn't. I had been

thinking about it for a

> long long time. For the last year and a half, anytime I have spoken to

Octavius offlist or read

> one of his emals onlist I would think 'damn I wish I were in his Gens".

But it was only sometime

> in December that I finally asked. It only went quickly in public.
>
> My former gensmates and I are working together offlist so that this

transition can be a smooth one

> for them. Laureatus was briefly Paterfamilias of Gens Moravia during 2001

when the rest of the

> Gens packed up and moved out of Rome without me. After me, Arnamentia is

the most senior citizen

> of the resurrected Gens Moravia of 2002. So between the two of them, the

gens is certainly in good

> hands.

Thank you very much for your explanation, I wish you happy new year in your
new patrician Gens.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Athanasius,

> > Regarding the Magna Mater project. I don't think I should have
> to "ask" about a project that is budgeted for. The information
> should be available on the website.

The informations ARE available in several websites, in our Main website
under the Senatus Consulta area and in the archive of this mailing list.
We're informing the citizens about the project almoust monthly in this list.
The first goal of my authorized proposal is the creation of a professional
website informing and promoting the project and within news about the
archeological area of the Palatine.
However I agree with Fabia Vera, if you don't find a website, informations
or the text of the project you SHOULD ask, it's a your right as nova roman
in my modest opinion. And honestly I think if the informations should be
temporaly not available, you should have a bit of patient, we're working for
it and we're all ready to inform you about everything in every moment.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Diana Octavia,

> Where in the Consitution does it say that the above is there job

desciption? Are you a Tribune or

> not? Tribunes go 'by the book'. If you are correcting me based on

something that is not in the

> Constitution then I suggest that you go back and study it as I advised you

last week before you

> officially took office.

As I explained, I'm not saying that the Quaestores assigned to the Aediles
MUST to accomplish other duties. What I'm saying (but it seems you don't
want understand it) is that "in the reality" the Aedilician Quaestores don't
accomplish only economical duties as prescripted by the Costitution because
there aren't budgets assigned to the Aediles. If there isn't money assigned,
how a Quaestor could accomplish his economical duties? I know that the
Costitution says that the only duty of the Quaestores is the economical
matter, I studied it well (I hope..). But I think that the Quaestores
assigned to an Aedile don't would like to work about nothing because there
isn't a budget. So they ask to accomplish different jobs as volunteers.
This is not unconstitutional because the "different" jobs accomplished by
the Quaestores assigned to an Aedile, are volunteer and the Quaestores are
not obliged to accomplish other duties different from the economical and
financial issues. Please, interview the past Quaestores and ask them if they
preferred manage 0 $ or work about something. Of course, I'm not correcting
you based on our Costitution, but I'm correcting you based on the real
life.
Of course the Quaestores are free to do no other jobs different ... but
they're doing them because they don't want have "empty hands" (I hope this
kind of metaphore sounds in english as it sounds in italian :-).
I hope the Quaestores assigned to the Aediles can accomplish economical
duties as soon as possible and I hope you'll be assigned to an Aedile to
understand what I mean. After, at the end of the next year, I'll contact you
and you'll say me honestly if what I'm saying now is correct or wrong.

[ P.S.: in my past Quaestorship I asked to Quintilianus to work about
different matters like Ludi, live projects, etc. because there weren't
budgets. In the past year "my" former Questor Serapio asked me to project
the Aedilician Fund because there weren't assigned budgets. But he asked me
to organize the Rally too and soem events during the Ludi.]

For other explanations or if my langauge is not perfect, please read the
perfect messages of Pompeia Cornelia.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Athanasius

> A Quaestor is a financial magistrate, not a go between to Universities and
> other agencies.

Sorry, Illustrus Athanasius, but the financial side of the Project Magna
Mater involves Nova Roma, an private agency and in a little side the
University of Rome. Please, read the proposal authorized by the Senate
during the last season.
So the Questor assigned to Aedile Perusianus would manage the Aedilician
Fund and take of care the financial contacts between all the members of the
Project. If you managed money you should know that it don't mean only
calculate coins...

> You, and others, are advocating for a man from Italia province to be

Quaestor

> simply because he lives close to you, speaks Italian, and is involved in

the

> Magna Mater project.

Athanasius, this kind of skills are very useful for the Quaestor assigned to
the Aedile Perusianus and are advantages. They are good reasons to vote for
Sulla. I have to add that Sulla knows very well some important roman
experts, he could manage personally the financial contacts with all the
members of the Project speaking italian and english, I have seen his good
economical and organizational skills in the past, he knows well the project
so he has a clear advantage, he don't think that the Quaestorship is lass
than "a consolation prize", etc.
And reading a past message of Diana about the calculation of 2.000x12 =
4800, I'll support stronger Sulla.
This is enough for me.

> What about next year? Is Nova Roma going to HAVE to
> elect an Italian Curule Aedile, and an Italian Quaestor? This sets a

precedence

> that I do not think is appropriate.

I don't know what is the future. I only hope that the Curule Aedile of the
2758 would like to continue the Project and with the same passion we had.
I only know that in this moment we have two candidates, Sulla and Aventina,
and I think that Sulla could be perfect as Quaestor assigned to Perusianus.
This is my personal opinion and this is why I'll vote for Sulla.

vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Amica!

She has left Nova Roma, I removed her from our list of citizens. You
may find copies of the communiction on the Censor's Joint list. Look
for "Forthegodshonor"

>I'm trying to reach Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana, who no longer seems to
>have a Nova Roma profile, to discuss organisation plans and status of
>the Nova Roma women's group.
>
>Please contact me or post in the group,
>
>gratias,
>--
>Julilla Sempronia Magna

At 02.32 -0500 04-01-04, Forthegodshonor@... wrote:

>Salvete good sirs and madams,
>
>Please erase Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana (Catherine V. Bidwell/Katie
>Bidwell) from the citizen's base. I am leaving Nova Roma.
>Unfortunately, there is no place amongst you for me - at this time.
>Maybe someday we'll meet again. Take care, be well, much love.
>
>Valete,
>
>~*~**~ Katie/Seta/Anneia/Ari ~**~*~

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Salve Amica!
>
> She has left Nova Roma, I removed her from our list of citizens.

I am sorry to hear that. Gratias for letting me know.

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

I think she is actually in Gens Iulia...but I could be wrong. She should
know if she is a Iulia or Iuliana, but I thought I saw her listed under Iulia.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius


In a message dated 1/6/2004 1:08:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
curatrix@... writes:
I'm trying to reach Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana, who no longer seems to
have a Nova Roma profile, to discuss organisation plans and status of
the Nova Roma women's group.

Please contact me or post in the group,

gratias,
--
Julilla Sempronia Magna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

> I think she is actually in Gens Iulia...but I could be wrong. She

should

> know if she is a Iulia or Iuliana, but I thought I saw her listed

under Iulia.

>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius

Gratias Gai, she was, the "Iuliana" was her addition.

J

Fr. Apulus;

When will the rituals to Magna Mater be conducted at this temple? Nova Roma
does have a sacerdos to Magna Mater, although I don't know if she will be able
to make it to Roma - she should at least be consulted.

Vale;

Gaius Modius

In a message dated 1/6/2004 3:26:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:
The informations ARE available in several websites, in our Main website
under the Senatus Consulta area and in the archive of this mailing list.
We're informing the citizens about the project almoust monthly in this list.
The first goal of my authorized proposal is the creation of a professional
website informing and promoting the project and within news about the
archeological area of the Palatine.
However I agree with Fabia Vera, if you don't find a website, informations
or the text of the project you SHOULD ask, it's a your right as nova roman
in my modest opinion. And honestly I think if the informations should be
temporaly not available, you should have a bit of patient, we're working for
it and we're all ready to inform you about everything in every moment.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<And reading a past message of Diana about the calculation of 2.000x12 =
<4800, I'll support stronger Sulla.

LOL! Nah, that is called Yahoo sending out an email in the middle of typing it which is happening
a lot these days. I would have resent it but I knew that one of you would have jumped in
immediately and said "see she made a mistake the first time". At least this way it took you 2 days
to notice..

<This is enough for me.

You were already supporting him or you would have posted in public- when I cannot remember ever
insulting you at all-- that I was too stupid to do simple calculations.

Calculations are easy, but I certainly am so stupid as to say 'thanks' to you for what I believed
to be an offlist apology.

Vale,
Diana

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:

>Salve Amica!
>
>She has left Nova Roma, I removed her from our list of citizens. You
>may find copies of the communiction on the Censor's Joint list. Look
>for "Forthegodshonor"
>
>
>At 02.32 -0500 04-01-04, Forthegodshonor@... wrote:
>
>
>>Salvete good sirs and madams,
>>
>>Please erase Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana (Catherine V. Bidwell/Katie
>>Bidwell) from the citizen's base. I am leaving Nova Roma.
>>Unfortunately, there is no place amongst you for me - at this time.
>>Maybe someday we'll meet again. Take care, be well, much love.
>>
>>Valete,
>>
>>~*~**~ Katie/Seta/Anneia/Ari ~**~*~
>>

If I'm out of order here, I apologise in advance but
Katie/Seta/Anneia/Ari Forthegodshonor@... is listed as the owner of
sodalitasfeminaenovaroma. I thought this was part of NovaRoma but how
can it be so if the owner is no longer a citizen?

Flavia Lucilla (confused)

>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVE C MODI ATHANASI

> When will the rituals to Magna Mater be conducted at this temple?

Well, I think the quaestion should be 'Could we conduct rituals at
this Temple?' And the question should be directed at the
Archaeological Superindance of Roma and the Archaeological Office of
University La Sapienza of Roma.
I don't know what the answer could be, even though I could imagine
it. The vast majority of people in the world think the Religio does
not even exist any more. Anyway, who knows?

> Nova Roma
> does have a sacerdos to Magna Mater, although I don't know if she

will be able

> to make it to Roma - she should at least be consulted.

Illustris Vopisca Iulia Cocceia, Sacerdos of Magna Mater, has been
informed since the beginning of the project and is fully aware of
it. She gave her contribution by sending prayers to Magna Mater
during the Ludi Megalesia in 2755 and 2756. In addition she already
contributed to the project with two donations.
I hope this solve you concerns.

OPTIME VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio

In a message dated 1/6/04 11:02:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, gfr@...
writes:

> But munus is neuter and the nominative and accusative inflections are
> therefore the same, hence munus rather than munerem.
>

That's correct as well, but annalists in the third century AD has written it
the other.
It would appear that rules of Grammer are getting lax in the third century.

QFM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 1/6/04 11:25:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@... writes:

> I come before you to make the following announcement The Censors have
> just informed me that the requested merger of the Nova Roma Gens Mnucius
> and Tiberius has been completed. All members of both Gens have been
> contacted at least twice to the best of my knowledge and reports, and
> all members of both Gens have been registered under the new Gens
> Minucius-Tiberius.
>

Well, guys, any historical outcome in Rome you want qoute for this? Are you
just making this up as you go along? You are not Germans, who hyphenate
clans, I thought we were supposed to be following Roman precedent. Why don't one
Gens (Minuci) adopt the other? At least we would be staying closer to history.
For myself I will continue to address the Gens as the Minuci.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Honorable Flavia Lucilla!

Anyone can start an e-mail list and then leave Nova Roma. This is
what she did. You don't have to have the approval from the Nova Roman
government to do it, You can even call such a list a Sodalits. But to
get a Sodalitas approved by Nova Roma You will have to approach the
Senate. Look at:

LEX CASSIA DE CREATIONE SODALITATVM

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-12-04-ii.html

You could of course write to her if she still use her e-mail address
and ask her to transfer the list to a citizen. Otherwise You can
create a new list after consulting the members of her "old" list.

>Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
>
>>Salve Amica!
>>
>>She has left Nova Roma, I removed her from our list of citizens. You
>>may find copies of the communiction on the Censor's Joint list. Look
> >for "Forthegodshonor"
> >>
>If I'm out of order here, I apologise in advance but
>Katie/Seta/Anneia/Ari Forthegodshonor@... is listed as the owner of
> sodalitasfeminaenovaroma. I thought this was part of NovaRoma but how
>can it be so if the owner is no longer a citizen?
>
>Flavia Lucilla (confused)

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

The Magna Mater project looks very interesting but there didn't seem
to be much information on how to get involved in other ways other
then financial contribution (which I have plans to do). Information
on getting involved and ways to help out would be greatly
appreciated :)

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, m_iulius@v... wrote:
> ave Pompeia,
>
> thank your very much for your kind words.
>
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
>
>

Salvete omnes,

A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once it
was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a museum,
or was the altar destroyed?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

---


Salvete Censor Fabius et Omnes:

How unfortunate. I tried to join her womens group, and it kept coming
up as nonexistent in the Yahoo database, despite my repeated spelling
checks.





In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Salve Amica!
>
> She has left Nova Roma, I removed her from our list of citizens. You
> may find copies of the communiction on the Censor's Joint list. Look
> for "Forthegodshonor"
>
> >I'm trying to reach Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana, who no longer seems to
> >have a Nova Roma profile, to discuss organisation plans and status of
> >the Nova Roma women's group.
> >
> >Please contact me or post in the group,
> >
> >gratias,
> >--
> >Julilla Sempronia Magna
>
>
> At 02.32 -0500 04-01-04, Forthegodshonor@a... wrote:
> >Salvete good sirs and madams,
> >
> >Please erase Anneia Iuliana Rusticiana (Catherine V. Bidwell/Katie
> >Bidwell) from the citizen's base. I am leaving Nova Roma.
> >Unfortunately, there is no place amongst you for me - at this time.
> >Maybe someday we'll meet again. Take care, be well, much love.
> >
> >Valete,
> >
> >~*~**~ Katie/Seta/Anneia/Ari ~**~*~
>
>
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Censor, Consularis et Senator
> Proconsul Thules
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dictit.

The Nova Britannia Provincial website and the Online Temple to Minerva have
moved to new locations!

The Nova Britannia Provincial website is now at: www.novabritannia.org

The Online Temple to Minerva is at www.novabritannia.org/temple.htm

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Rogator
Propraetor Nova Britannia
Lictor




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE PAULINE

> A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once

it

> was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a

museum,

> or was the altar destroyed?

I do not know any museum having it....
Ending IV century, there was a controversial among Pagans (Simmacus)
and Christians (St. Ambrosy) about Altar of Victory, ruling
Gratianus; won St. Ambrosy, and the altar was put out Curia Iulia,
while the statue of Victory remained there; the last informations we
have about the statue are of 410 and the sack of Alaricus...we do
not know if the statue was plundered or just destroyed by flames
(that part of Furum was burning)!

VALE

L IUL SULLA

Salvete Omnes,

I know this has nothing what so ever to do with Roma. But I have no where
else to go. Does anyone know a good place to find information about the
history of the Tank. I am doing a school report and can't find any good info. Also,
can someone tell me if my signature makes sense in Latin. I am learning and
am not sure if this is right or not.

BENE.VALE.
I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.ROMAE.
ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
NOVAE.ROMAE.ET.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.
OPTIO.SODALITAE.MILITARI.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm. I would
advise in the future, to direct military related
questions to the Militarium site to prevent anyone
getting upset on this list. (like that ever
happens<grin>

M. Africanus


--- Scriboni89@... wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I know this has nothing what so ever to do with
> Roma. But I have no where
> else to go. Does anyone know a good place to find
> information about the
> history of the Tank. I am doing a school report and
> can't find any good info. Also,
> can someone tell me if my signature makes sense in
> Latin. I am learning and
> am not sure if this is right or not.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.ROMAE.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> NOVAE.ROMAE.ET.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.
> OPTIO.SODALITAE.MILITARI.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

Salve Luci,

Thanks for the answer. It is indeed a pity that it was not preserved.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Iulius" <21aprile@e...>
wrote:

> SALVE PAULINE
>
> > A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once
> it
> > was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a
> museum,
> > or was the altar destroyed?
>
> I do not know any museum having it....
> Ending IV century, there was a controversial among Pagans

(Simmacus)

> and Christians (St. Ambrosy) about Altar of Victory, ruling
> Gratianus; won St. Ambrosy, and the altar was put out Curia Iulia,
> while the statue of Victory remained there; the last informations

we

> have about the statue are of 410 and the sack of Alaricus...we do
> not know if the statue was plundered or just destroyed by flames
> (that part of Furum was burning)!
>
> VALE
>
> L IUL SULLA

, I thought we were supposed to be following Roman precedent. Why
don't one

> Gens (Minuci) adopt the other? At least we would be staying closer

to history.

> For myself I will continue to address the Gens as the Minuci.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>

Yes, I agree with Quintus Fabius this seems very odd. Cannot the
present Gens changes and merges be subsumed under adoption. Cordus
also made the very same pertinent point in regard to this issue.
vale Fabia Vera

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Modius Athanasius Manio Constantino Serapio SPD

I assume that those individuals that are involved in the Magna Mater project
have informed the academic professionals involved in the project that Nova
Roma is a Reconstructionist organization devoted to bringing back the Religio
Romana in addition to the Roman culture. One of the purposes of Nova Roma is to
educate the "vast majority" of people and let them know that the Immortals
have not been forgotten.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/6/2004 4:51:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mcserapio@... writes:
I don't know what the answer could be, even though I could imagine
it. The vast majority of people in the world think the Religio does
not even exist any more. Anyway, who knows?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus Fr. Apulo Caesari salutem dicit.

Salve, Fr. Apule.

I would not for a moment attempt to block my colleague M. Iulius from
taking L. Iulius as his quaestor, if L. Iulius were to be elected.
However, no aedilician quaestores have yet been appointed and
tradition and protocol gives the first choice of the aedilician
quaestores to the senior aedilis curulis. I rather resent being
excluded in principle from selecting L. Siulius as my quaestor
because the whole campaign electing him was based on his serving with
M. Iulius and my doing so would then thwart the will of the
electorate. Since M. Iulius and I have agreed to forgo the
senior/junior distinction in all respects except religious rituals
and to act collegially, for this year it is a moot point, because I
would not deny my colleague the quaestor he wanted. However, a
campaign for quaestor based on serving one particular aedilis sets a
precedent which could effectively force our successors to organise
their aedileship the same way we have and that is unfair and
disrespectful to those who will follow us.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit.

Salve, Q. Fabi.

> > But munus is neuter and the nominative and accusative inflections are
>> therefore the same, hence munus rather than munerem.
>>
>
>That's correct as well, but annalists in the third century AD has written it
>the other.
>It would appear that rules of Grammer are getting lax in the third century.

Since those texts are in much later manuscripts, the palaeographer in
me is inclined to think that it is either scribal error or a
phenomenon of medieval rather than classical Latin.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem VIII Idus Ianuarii; the day is fastus.

Tomorrow is ante diem VII Idus Ianuarii; the day is comitialis.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Numismatische Bilddatenbank Eichstätt
[Numismatic Graphic Database Eichstätt]:

http://www.ifaust.de/nbe/

This site, created by Prof. Jürgen Malitz, is searchable by persons,
date, face value, moneyer, reference numbers, weight, catalog text,
and legend. The site is in German and is an outstanding Roman
numismatic resource.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete Omnes!

Good news! The Conventus Matronas has convened:

conventusmatronas@yahoogroups

and it is not only up and going, but thriving!

There is also a responsible and orderly effort to regroup
the 'feminae' list into a proper NR organisation.

These efforts within the two groups are most amicable, and things
are working out wonderfully, even with a potential to later combine
the groups. Greater minds than mine are at work, and I merely have
the pleasure of delivering the good news:

Ladies of Rome! Please do come join us in the Conventus Matronas,
as concieved and founded by our own Julia Modia.

(I hope the above link works, if by any chance it does not, please
look up 'Conventus Matronas at Yahoo Groups' I'm a regular dinosaur
at computer communication and extend my apologies if needed.)

--Sabina Cornelia Mima Polyglottos

Salve, Caius Minius Draco -

On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 05:20:18PM +0200, Caius Minius Draco wrote:
> Thx, I am using Netscape communicator at home and will read the messages
> directly on the yahoo's website when at work ;)
> Still searching for the option (the order thing) for Netscape ...

I don't have Netscape close to hand, but its successor, Mozilla, has it
under "View/Sort/By Thread".


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Whatever this may be, I fear the Greeks even when they're bringing gifts.
-- Vergil, "Aenis. The priest Laokoon's warning when seeing the Trojan horse."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once it
> was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a museum,
> or was the altar destroyed?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

I'm sure people are looking at their watches wondering how long it
will be until I comment on this. "Hmm, question about the Altar of
Victory, Palladius will be here in about 10, 9, 8....

Nothing like being predictable. :-) Anyway, below is something I
posted in response to a question about the Altar several years ago
and am reposting it.

In the 4th Century the Altar of Victory was removed from and put back
into the Senate several times until its likely final removal in 394
during the reign of Theodosius. What happened to it after that is a
mystery from what I have been able to determine. At first it was
probably put into storage near the senate curia. Likely it
remained there for a number of years, even decades until it appeared
certain it was not going to be returned to its place of honor in the
senate. I have 3 theories as to what happened to it at that point: 1.
it may have been destroyed at the instigation of some overzealous
Christian senators or officials, since the Ara Victoriae represented,
more than any other item, pagan Rome personified;

2. It may have been moved to the private residence of one of
remaining members of the pagan senatorial aristocracy or a
sympathetic Christian senator who wished to save it for the future
and love of art and history. From there it may have been buried to
save it for posterity, fell into ruin through years of neglect or
turned into building material by the family's descendants who did not
appreciate what was in their possession ;

3. Or it may have stayed in senate storage until being
taken out and broken into pieces for building material for a wall or
new structure, as many ancient artifacts and buildings were that were
no longer wanted.

Which scenario is most likely? Least likely I think is option 1. The
Christians of Rome did not display the destructiveness of those
elsewhere, such as in Alexandria. Neglect and barbarians did more
damage than religious zealots. The Italians during the Renaissance
did more damage to Rome than the barbarians ever did, as did the sack
of Rome in 1527 by the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. Still,
destruction during the classical period is a possibiltity--or during
a later period.

I am a romantic and like to think option two is what happened, that
some pagan or Christian senatorial family saved the Ara Victoriae on
their property and that eventually it was buried to preserve it or
protect it. I am optimistic and hope that it will be found intact.
However,realistically I am just as inclined to go with option 3, that
it was taken out and used for building material for a new structure,
or even for road material. If this is the case then it is possible
that the pieces will be found through archelogical excavation and
pieced together, as has happened with some artifacts. This is all
speculation, however.

The fate of the statue is also unknown beyond the last removal of the
Altar in 394. I have read that the Altar and statue of Victory were
possibly placed back in the Senate by Stilcho in 408 but that
information is scanty and does not seem credible.


Vale,

Palladius

Salve Palladi!

Thank you very much for going to all this work to answer my question
about the Altar Of Victory. I have seen photos of some
reconstructions and beautiful it is; I would like to hope it has
preserved and hidden over the centuries.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once
it
> > was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a
museum,
> > or was the altar destroyed?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> I'm sure people are looking at their watches wondering how long it
> will be until I comment on this. "Hmm, question about the Altar of
> Victory, Palladius will be here in about 10, 9, 8....
>
> Nothing like being predictable. :-) Anyway, below is something I
> posted in response to a question about the Altar several years ago
> and am reposting it.
>
> In the 4th Century the Altar of Victory was removed from and put
back
> into the Senate several times until its likely final removal in 394
> during the reign of Theodosius. What happened to it after that is a
> mystery from what I have been able to determine. At first it was
> probably put into storage near the senate curia. Likely it
> remained there for a number of years, even decades until it
appeared
> certain it was not going to be returned to its place of honor in
the
> senate. I have 3 theories as to what happened to it at that point:
1.
> it may have been destroyed at the instigation of some overzealous
> Christian senators or officials, since the Ara Victoriae
represented,
> more than any other item, pagan Rome personified;
>
> 2. It may have been moved to the private residence of one of
> remaining members of the pagan senatorial aristocracy or a
> sympathetic Christian senator who wished to save it for the future
> and love of art and history. From there it may have been buried to
> save it for posterity, fell into ruin through years of neglect or
> turned into building material by the family's descendants who did
not
> appreciate what was in their possession ;
>
> 3. Or it may have stayed in senate storage until being
> taken out and broken into pieces for building material for a wall
or
> new structure, as many ancient artifacts and buildings were that
were
> no longer wanted.
>
> Which scenario is most likely? Least likely I think is option 1.
The
> Christians of Rome did not display the destructiveness of those
> elsewhere, such as in Alexandria. Neglect and barbarians did more
> damage than religious zealots. The Italians during the Renaissance
> did more damage to Rome than the barbarians ever did, as did the
sack
> of Rome in 1527 by the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. Still,
> destruction during the classical period is a possibiltity--or
during
> a later period.
>
> I am a romantic and like to think option two is what happened, that
> some pagan or Christian senatorial family saved the Ara Victoriae
on
> their property and that eventually it was buried to preserve it or
> protect it. I am optimistic and hope that it will be found intact.
> However,realistically I am just as inclined to go with option 3,
that
> it was taken out and used for building material for a new
structure,
> or even for road material. If this is the case then it is possible
> that the pieces will be found through archelogical excavation and
> pieced together, as has happened with some artifacts. This is all
> speculation, however.
>
> The fate of the statue is also unknown beyond the last removal of
the
> Altar in 394. I have read that the Altar and statue of Victory were
> possibly placed back in the Senate by Stilcho in 408 but that
> information is scanty and does not seem credible.
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius

Salvete omnes,

First of all, thank you very much for the many mails and responses to my question. I am very happy to receive these because the university project I am working on is not yet finished and I can use your replies for the project!!

As it seems, NR is very happy with the Email system, except for Yahoo, and therefore I think it should stay that way in NR.

I just wanted to find out, how people think about this and if they would have thought it to be a good idea, we could have developed something. As it seems that most of you don't like that, then we can just drop this issue again.

Again, thank you all for your answers and please continue discussion if you like, but we can also just leave it here.

Valete bene in pace deorum, Tiberius Annaeus Otho

kenn_halliwell <kenn_halliwell@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes,

This is all IMHO (in my humble opinion).

A forum is basically a bulletin board.

There are _some_ advantages to a forum but there are many
disadvantages as well. In my opinion, the disadvantages far
outweigh the advantages.

Advantages: It's available via web browser which means you
can access it from anywhere. Typically, all the controls (post,
history, etc.) are readily available.

Disadvantages: It's more suited to the occasional user. It
tends to be slow, even with a broadband connection, as you have to
wait for each item to download before you can read it or navigate
to the next one.

Also there's additional 'real-time' needed to keep tabs on what you
have and haven't read, so the server at the other end (which manages
the board) has to be fast, up to scratch, and needs a lot of
management on the part of the moderator.

Perhaps the biggest disadvantage of a forum is that it's only
possible to read it when you are connected, so there's no
downloading and reading it later at your leisure!

Also, if you subscribe to additional forums (main forum, Religio
forum, provincial forum, etc.) then switching between each one (which
typically involves a login and password verification) would become
an unwieldy task very quickly!

You also have the issue (as pointed out in a previous post)
of the bandwidth required by the server. 400+ people accessing a
forum (or 2 or 10) hourly or even daily, takes a lot of bandwidth...
since with each access you also have to load the graphics (controls,
skin, etc.) and the messages. And if the NR Web site is on borrowed
bandwidth, a forum would probably exceed the allocation and incur
extra charges. In addition, a forum is server intensive and may
exceed the processor time allocations from the hosting company.
Plus the immense storage space required to save all previous messages,
as well as the profiles and preferences of all the users (active or
not) would eat up disk space quickly.

I say let Yahoo deal with the bandwidth, processor time, and storage.

Personally, I prefer an email-based system...where I can use the
delete button at my own discretion and save (locally) things I find
of interest.

Valete,

Lucius Geminius Publicus
eques draconum





---------------------------------
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Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Diana Octavia,

> <And reading a past message of Diana about the calculation of

2.000x12 =

> <4800, I'll support stronger Sulla.
>
> LOL! Nah, that is called Yahoo sending out an email in the middle

of typing it which is happening

> a lot these days. I would have resent it but I knew that one of

you would have jumped in

> immediately and said "see she made a mistake the first time". At

least this way it took you 2 days

> to notice..

Sorry, I'm not the first to have published your mistake ;-)
If you knew that we "jumped in" why you didn't sent an errata
corrige soon? ;-)

> <This is enough for me.
>
> You were already supporting him or you would have posted in public-

when I cannot remember ever

> insulting you at all-- that I was too stupid to do simple

calculations.

>
> Calculations are easy, but I certainly am so stupid as to

say 'thanks' to you for what I believed

> to be an offlist apology.

Diana, I didn't insulted you calling you "stupid", never, because I
think "stupid" is a great offense. And I never thought that you are
stupid. You know that I appreciated your job and I think you're a
very skilled citizen, I said you publicly and privatly.
The problems of calculation is not stupidity, it's very hard to
calculate great sums and I myself am not a genius in maths and I
don't think I'm stupid. So I can understand you.
However I never read somebody called you "stupid" or something like
it. Stupidity is more than a couple of calculations and I hate this
kind of bad words...
But, Diana, if you claim wonderful and great financial and
economical skills saying that you manipulate millions of dollars,
you know that the people will critic you reading this kind of
mistakes. Is it? ;-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

M IVL PERVSIANVS AED CVR QVIRITIBUS SPD

>Information on getting involved and ways to help out would be greatly

appreciated

At the moment I'm quite busy in several topics, and, among the others, the
development of the MM project during the year.

On a regular monthly basis the Cohors is going to post, on this mailing
list, a report about the progress of the MM project.

In a few days some people are going to be appointed to follow the first
steps of the creation of the official website and the fund raising. I'm
asking to some NR citizens to enter the Cohors, according to their
experience, skills and so on.
The definition of a larger editorial staff will follow later during the
year.

By the way if someone is already interested





Nova-Roma@yahoog
roups.com Per: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
07/01/04 03.01 Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 1061
Per favore,
rispondere a
Nova-Roma





Message: 11
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:50:20 -0000
From: "Samantha" <lucia_modia_lupa@...>
Subject: Re: The Magna Mater project and a quaestor

The Magna Mater project looks very interesting but there didn't seem
to be much information on how to get involved in other ways other
then financial contribution (which I have plans to do). Information
on getting involved and ways to help out would be greatly
appreciated :)

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, m_iulius@v... wrote:
> ave Pompeia,
>
> thank your very much for your kind words.
>
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
>
>




________________________________________________________________________

M IVL PERVSIANVS AED CUR QVIRITIBVS SPD

>Information on getting involved and ways to help out would be

greatly appreciated

At the moment I'm thinking about the composition of the Cohors and,
among other duties, who is going to follow the MM project's first
steps this year. In the very next days I'm going to appoint some NR
citizens, according to their skills and experience. The main goals
are, by now, the fund raising and the development of an official
website.

On a regular monthly basis the Cohors is going to post on this ml, a
report about the progress of the MM project.

According to an agreement with University of Rome, later this year
we'll probably need of a larger editorial staff (to be defined in
terms of number and skills).
Of course I will write again about this topic but, if some of you
wishes, you can also write to me now at m_iulius @ virgilio.it (one
single word) for information or to be considered in this next request
for volunteers.

thanks

Valete

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Aedile Curule MMDCCLVII
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

Salvete omnes

Why are private messages like this "You're welcome. Best of luck..." being posted on the Main List? It is to an individual reply to an individual - it contains no new information and should have been sent Privately.
Instead, over 600 people have to hit the Delete button - grossly inconsiderate!

Valete
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
Sent: Jan 6, 2004 9:41 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A New Year with a New Gens

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> <Respondeo : But I'll still be running against Diana and it

wouldn't be a

> <nice feeling : Fly my pretty and get that office for old

times'sake!

>
> Salve Laureatus,
>
> I'll do my best!
>
> And to my new brother Noricus, my sister-in-spirit Quaestor
>Arnamentia Moravia, Quaestor Gaia Fabia, Proconsul Decius Iunius,
>Praetor Decimus Iunius, Proconsul Q Fabius for reminding me that
>duty to Rome always comes first, 3 of our Tribunes Julilla, Tiberius
>and Athanasius, and all the others who have supported me: THANK YOU!

You're welcome! Best of luck in the new year with a new name/gens and
hopefully a new magistracy as well!

Palladius





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Salvete Quirites; et salve, Cn. Scriboni.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Scriboni89@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I know this has nothing what so ever to do with Roma. But I
> have no where else to go. Does anyone know a good place to find
> information about the history of the Tank. I am doing a school
> report and can't find any good info. Also, can someone tell me if
> my signature makes sense in Latin. I am learning and am not sure if
> this is right or not.
>
> BENE.VALE.
> I.MANERE.IN.AMORA.ROMAE.
> ET.FORTIS.IN.FIDE.
> GNAEVS.SCRIBONIVS.SCRIPTOR.
> NOVAE.ROMAE.ET.LEGIO.XXIV.MA.
> OPTIO.SODALITAE.MILITARI.

I don't know much about tanks, but perhaps I can help you with your
Latin inscription. Are you trying to say "Remain (you, plural) in
love of Rome and strong in faith"? That would be something
like "Manete in amore Romae et fortes in fide" in literal
translation, although perhaps a Roman would express it in a very
different way. I am sure that our latinists will help you with that.

For the second part of your signature, where you try to say "Optio of
the Sodalitas Militarium", it should be "Optio Sodalitatis
Militarium".

S.V.B.E.E.V.
CN.SALIX.T.F.A.NEP.OVF.ASTVR

Fr. Apulus:

You criticize Diana for a mathematical error -- that has very little
relevance -- yet every single e-mail you send is riddled with grammatical errors and
spelling blunders.

What is corrige? What is soddisfy? And YOU are going to report the
activities of the Senate? Or is one of your "scribes" going to do it for you?

I think its about time you stop pointing out the mistakes of others, and
start looking a little closer to home.

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/7/2004 4:08:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:
Sorry, I'm not the first to have published your mistake ;-)
If you knew that we "jumped in" why you didn't sent an errata
corrige soon? ;-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Apples & Oranges, Athanasius, apples & oranges.

F. Apulus was merely pointing out a math error made by someone who is running for an office requiring some math skills, which is relevant, although I do not personally think it is too relevant - actually, I thought it was a typo.

However, you are criticizing his English skills when he is not a native English speaker, as you well know, and while he is making a private post - not campaigning for a position as Scribe; so your comment about his grammar is not only irrelevant but is rude and insulting.

We are an international organization with many English as a Second Language people; your criticizing their English grammar skills is obscene. How's your Italian for replying to F. Apulus, if you don't like his English, or your German if you want to get into the Forum discussions? Your Spanish? Your Portuguese?

If you were forced to participate via one of the overseas Lists, you would probably think twice about this kind of behaviour.

Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus


-----Original Message-----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
Sent: Jan 7, 2004 5:10 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Magna Mater project and a quaestor

Fr. Apulus:

You criticize Diana for a mathematical error -- that has very little
relevance -- yet every single e-mail you send is riddled with grammatical errors and
spelling blunders.

What is corrige? What is soddisfy? And YOU are going to report the
activities of the Senate? Or is one of your "scribes" going to do it for you?

I think its about time you stop pointing out the mistakes of others, and
start looking a little closer to home.

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/7/2004 4:08:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:
Sorry, I'm not the first to have published your mistake ;-)
If you knew that we "jumped in" why you didn't sent an errata
corrige soon? ;-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus:

I stand by my words. You don't like them, that is your right. But I will
not sit back and watch him and his provincial staff attack a person I feel has
served our Republic well. I take his statements as attacks. If he were using
these same tactics against someone else I would also defend that person, I
believe his attacks are unjustified and without merit.

BTW, a Tribune in Nova Roma reports the results of the Senate in English.
Reports have to be accurate. It is "obscene" to point out a mathematical error
(more likely a keyboarding error) of a potential quaestor while ignoring your
own errors in communication in an office were communication is critical. This
is not apples and oranges, but fruit from the same tree.

One may contend that my comments are rude, but attacking a woman for a simple
error in an e-mail and then questioning her abilities within her chosen
profession is a far graver offense.

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/7/2004 8:39:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hermeticagnosis@... writes:
Apples & Oranges, Athanasius, apples & oranges.

F. Apulus was merely pointing out a math error made by someone who is
running for an office requiring some math skills, which is relevant, although I do
not personally think it is too relevant - actually, I thought it was a typo.

However, you are criticizing his English skills when he is not a native
English speaker, as you well know, and while he is making a private post - not
campaigning for a position as Scribe; so your comment about his grammar is not
only irrelevant but is rude and insulting.

We are an international organization with many English as a Second Language
people; your criticizing their English grammar skills is obscene. How's your
Italian for replying to F. Apulus, if you don't like his English, or your
German if you want to get into the Forum discussions? Your Spanish? Your
Portuguese?

If you were forced to participate via one of the overseas Lists, you would
probably think twice about this kind of behaviour.

Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Omnes,

The web site informs me that the Censores have approved a new cive
who has chossen to join gens Popillia:

"Marcus Popillius"

Popillia is not a large gens so the addition of a member is a big
event for us.

If you see Marcus around Nova Roma, please make him welcome. My
thanks to the Censores for their prompt action.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Paterfamilias gens Popillia

Salve Athanasius,
I'm sorry for my language and grammatical errors, I know that my
english is very bad and I'm usual to write fast by my keyboard. Of
course. I'm frequenting an english class to improve my english and I
hope to "grow" my skills as soon as possible.

As Tribune, I'll ask to the official italian interpreter to check my
english in the official texts and senatorial reports before.

However I never said I write a perfect english, I don't claim my
english grammatical skills. And my posts to Diana are not official
texts as Magistrate.
Diana claimed his financial skills as important requirements of
Quaestor and his "point of power" in this election. I didn't
attacked her, I have only wrote that I'll vote for Sulla because I
read a math error in a message of Diana and for other reasons.
If you read it as an attack, please, take my apologies, I don't want
hurt her or you. It started as endorsements for Iulius Sulla.
By the way if you read well my message to Diana Octavia, you'll find
several nice emoticons and never my tone was rude.
As I said in several posts, I think diana Octavia is a wonderful
citizen and she did a good job in the last year. But in this
election I support Iulius Sulla.
Please, Athanasius, don't manipulate my words, because the
manipulation is a kind of attack too.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus:
>
> I stand by my words. You don't like them, that is your right.
But I will
> not sit back and watch him and his provincial staff attack a
person I feel has
> served our Republic well. I take his statements as attacks. If
he were using
> these same tactics against someone else I would also defend that
person, I
> believe his attacks are unjustified and without merit.
>
> BTW, a Tribune in Nova Roma reports the results of the Senate in
English.
> Reports have to be accurate. It is "obscene" to point out a
mathematical error
> (more likely a keyboarding error) of a potential quaestor while
ignoring your
> own errors in communication in an office were communication is
critical. This
> is not apples and oranges, but fruit from the same tree.
>
> One may contend that my comments are rude, but attacking a woman
for a simple
> error in an e-mail and then questioning her abilities within her
chosen
> profession is a far graver offense.
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 1/7/2004 8:39:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> hermeticagnosis@e... writes:
> Apples & Oranges, Athanasius, apples & oranges.
>
> F. Apulus was merely pointing out a math error made by someone
who is
> running for an office requiring some math skills, which is
relevant, although I do
> not personally think it is too relevant - actually, I thought it
was a typo.
>
> However, you are criticizing his English skills when he is not a
native
> English speaker, as you well know, and while he is making a
private post - not
> campaigning for a position as Scribe; so your comment about his
grammar is not
> only irrelevant but is rude and insulting.
>
> We are an international organization with many English as a
Second Language
> people; your criticizing their English grammar skills is obscene.
How's your
> Italian for replying to F. Apulus, if you don't like his English,
or your
> German if you want to get into the Forum discussions? Your
Spanish? Your
> Portuguese?
>
> If you were forced to participate via one of the overseas Lists,
you would
> probably think twice about this kind of behaviour.
>
> Vale
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quintus Lanius Paulinus

From the January 2756 Eagle

" What Happened to the Altar of Victory?"
BY Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
Curator Differum Emeritus

The Altar of Victory, the Ara Victoriae, which once stood in the Senate House in Rome, has long fascinated many people, including me. This is probably because it came to be imbued with potent symbolism, and was seen to represent Classical Paganism's very struggle to survive in the face of Christian persecution during the waning years of the Empire.

The struggle of Quintus Aurelius Symmachus and others to have the Altar of Victory restored to the Senate still strikes a chord, as does the poignancy of their loss. That noble struggle and its details have survived to the present and are well known. They were the subjects of a two-part article I wrote for The Eagle almost three years ago.

There is another aspect to this tale, however, that is lost to history and moves one primarily into the realm of reasonable speculation. That speculation leads to a still unanswered question: what happened to the Altar of Victory after the final defeat of the Pagan Senatorial aristocracy?

What is known is that in the 4th Century the Altar of Victory was removed from and put back into the Senate Curia several times until its likely final removal in 394 during the reign of Theodosius. (I say likely because it is possible Stilicho briefly restored it to the Senate in 408).

What happened to it after that is a mystery from what I have been able to determine. At first, it was probably put into storage in or near the senate curia. Likely, it remained there for a number of years, even decades until it appeared certain it was not going to be returned to its place of honor in the senate. I have four theories as to what may have happened to it at that point:

It might have been destroyed at the instigation of some overzealous Christian senators or officials, since the Ara Victoriae represented, more than any other item, pagan Rome.

It may have been moved to the private residence of one of remaining members of the pagan senatorial aristocracy or a sympathetic Christian senator who wished to save it for the future and love of art and Roman history

From there it may have been buried for to protect it; possibly it fell into ruin through years of neglect or was turned into building material by the family's descendants who did not appreciate, or feared what was in their possession.

Possibly it stayed in senate storage until being taken out and broken into pieces for building material for a wall or new structure, as many ancient artifacts and buildings were that were no longer wanted. It could have been destroyed in the 410 sack of Rome.

Which scenario is most likely? Least likely I think is option one. The Christians of Rome did not display the destructiveness of that elsewhere, such as in Alexandria. Neglect and barbarians did more damage to Rome than religious zealots. Still, it is a possibility, as is option four.

If barbarians destroyed it during the sack of Rome, however, I am certain that Christian writers would have not been silent on the event but would have praised the act.

I am a romantic and like to think option two is what happened, that some pagan or Christian senatorial family saved the Ara Victoriae on their property and that eventually it was buried to preserve it or protect it. I am optimistic and hope that it will be found intact.

However, realistically I am just as inclined to go with option three, that it was taken out and used for building material for a new structure, or even for road material. If this is the case then it is possible that the pieces will be found through archaeological excavation and pieced together, as has happened with some artifacts, such as the Augustan Ara Pacis,
Altar of Peace.

This is all speculation. It does give one hope, however, for its eventual recovery. When a Curia is built someday for the Nova Roman Senate, it would be fitting to again have an Altar of Victory in a place of honor at which we will be able to make offerings before sessions. So much the better if the ancient one is found so we will be able to make a precise copy.

Never think an Altar of Victory is not needed, if only as a symbol. In the words of Quintus Aurelius Symmachus, Quis ita familiaris est barbaris, ut aram Victoriae non-requirat! "We are not on such terms with the barbarians that we do not need an Altar of Victory!"

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Altar Of Victory


Salvete omnes,

A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once it
was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a museum,
or was the altar destroyed?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus





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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Fr. Apulus;

You support Iulius Sulla, and think it is great that you openly support the
candidate you feel would best do the job. If Diana were not running for
quaestor I would gladly vote for Sulla myself - as I have heard good things about
him. However, I would suggest that when you offer support for a candidate you
do so by lamenting the good qualities of the candidate for the office they are
applying for and not formally criticize the qualities of the other candidate
(unless of course you want the supporters of the other candidate to come to
that persons defense).

I do think your tone was rude, and I know your supporters feel that my tone
has been rude as well. At this point discussing the matter further -- in
public -- will serve no purpose. I have no desire to drag this out any further.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius


In a message dated 1/7/2004 9:30:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:
By the way if you read well my message to Diana Octavia, you'll find
several nice emoticons and never my tone was rude.
As I said in several posts, I think diana Octavia is a wonderful
citizen and she did a good job in the last year. But in this
election I support Iulius Sulla.
Please, Athanasius, don't manipulate my words, because the
manipulation is a kind of attack too.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE,

I'm reading a lot of messages for the new elections of a Quaestor, so I want
openly support Lucius Iulius Sulla.

In the last months I had many opportunities to work with Sulla. He is the
most available person I know (by mail, by phone or face to face).
His works and his effort may be evaluated by the project "Ask to the expert"
(or "Chiedilo all'esperto" in Italian).
He realized many other things for NR, but I bring to you this example
because it's one of the most "time consuming" project I know. A lot of time,
patience, money is necessary to maintain relations with the Italian Academic
world.

Is my opinion that the grow of NR must be set out of NR, many other persons
need to be involved in NR to allow to NR itself to grow. Sulla has this
competence so, growing in the Cursus Honorum, I'm sure he will give to NR
more and more of himself.

So I think he deserves to be elected as Quaestor. I hope he will be elected.

Good luck Sulla !

VALETE
C IVL MARIVS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE

I'm reading about the recent change of Gens of a citizen. She passed from a
plebeian Gens to a patrician Gens and, if I correctly remember, she was
Tribunus Plebis.

Is there an historic example of a plebeian elected as Tribunus Plebis and,
then, passed in a patrician Gens ?

VALETE
C IVL MARIVS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete omnes,

sorry, message no.19415 was, of course, sent for a mistake. Please
consider only no.19416

(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/post?
act=reply&messageNum=19416)

Thanks
M IVL PERVSIANVS

Salvete,

While I do have much respect for the members of Gentes Minucia and Tiberia I
am at a loss to understand why such a drastic step -merging- has been taken
to get these two gentes together.

I am surprised to see that the champions of historical veracity have stayed
so silent so far, with the exception of noble Fabius Maximus who expressed
some doubts about the whole exercise...

I understand that one of the paterfamilias is currently unavailable for very
good reasons and that it was felt that a new approach to gens "leadership"
should be adopted until his return but wouldn't have been simpler to trust
one of the Tiberii to act as pro-pater ?

In any case as senator Maxime pointed out a proper adoption procedure should
have been followed instead of resorting to "merging". Perhaps our Censores
would care to explain the reasons why they allowed such a move ?

Please note that I am only debating on the technicality and spirit of the
"merging" and have no grief against any of the above gentes members...

Optime valete

Corn. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
"To a man with a hammer, every issue looks like a nail"

pompeia_cornelia wrote:

>---
>Salvete Censor Fabius et Omnes:
>
>How unfortunate. I tried to join her womens group, and it kept coming
>up as nonexistent in the Yahoo database, despite my repeated spelling
>checks.
>

The group has changed it's name to sodalitasfeminaenovaroma. If you try
that at Yahoo groups you should find it.

Flavia Lucilla

>
>
>
>
>
>

Salve Athanasius,

thank you very much for your answer and for your suggestions, I'll
take them checking my tone in the past messages. I hope you'll do
the same.
If my language was too rude, please, Athanasius and Diana and
everybody, apologize me, I don't want insulte anybody.
I think our little "fight" was hurting this two wonderful
candidates. As I said you privately, I'm sad thinking that one of
them will not a Quaestor because they are very citizens.

I agree with you, our discussion is not useful now and it produces
only critical topics boring the citizens. So I'll try to answer to
you and Diana's supporters in private.

In any way, I'll continue to support Iulius Sulla as Quaestor ;-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Salve Fr. Apulus;
>
> You support Iulius Sulla, and think it is great that you openly
support the
> candidate you feel would best do the job. If Diana were not
running for
> quaestor I would gladly vote for Sulla myself - as I have heard
good things about
> him. However, I would suggest that when you offer support for a
candidate you
> do so by lamenting the good qualities of the candidate for the
office they are
> applying for and not formally criticize the qualities of the other
candidate
> (unless of course you want the supporters of the other candidate
to come to
> that persons defense).
>
> I do think your tone was rude, and I know your supporters feel
that my tone
> has been rude as well. At this point discussing the matter
further -- in
> public -- will serve no purpose. I have no desire to drag this
out any further.
>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
>
> In a message dated 1/7/2004 9:30:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> sacro_barese_impero@l... writes:
> By the way if you read well my message to Diana Octavia, you'll
find
> several nice emoticons and never my tone was rude.
> As I said in several posts, I think diana Octavia is a wonderful
> citizen and she did a good job in the last year. But in this
> election I support Iulius Sulla.
> Please, Athanasius, don't manipulate my words, because the
> manipulation is a kind of attack too.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mari,

Yes, these adoptions were possible. Also the "Dictionary Of the Roman
Empire" mentions that in the later republic and empire that some
Patricians had themselves adopted into Plebian families in order to
be eligable to run for tribunes and perhaps tow the point of view of
the patricians and senate.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C IVL MARIVS" <c_iul_marius@y...>
wrote:

> SALVETE
>
> I'm reading about the recent change of Gens of a citizen. She

passed from a

> plebeian Gens to a patrician Gens and, if I correctly remember, she

was

> Tribunus Plebis.
>
> Is there an historic example of a plebeian elected as Tribunus

Plebis and,

> then, passed in a patrician Gens ?
>
> VALETE
> C IVL MARIVS
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve amice,

Thank you for posting the article. I found a few pictures on the web
of a reproduction of this altar. To nova Romans such a find would be
as significant as finding the Ark Of The Covenant to the Christians
and Jewish people don't you think?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

> Salve Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
> From the January 2756 Eagle
>
> " What Happened to the Altar of Victory?"
> BY Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
> Curator Differum Emeritus
>
> The Altar of Victory, the Ara Victoriae, which once stood in the

Senate House in Rome, has long fascinated many people, including me.
This is probably because it came to be imbued with potent symbolism,
and was seen to represent Classical Paganism's very struggle to
survive in the face of Christian persecution during the waning years
of the Empire.

>
> The struggle of Quintus Aurelius Symmachus and others to have the

Altar of Victory restored to the Senate still strikes a chord, as
does the poignancy of their loss. That noble struggle and its details
have survived to the present and are well known. They were the
subjects of a two-part article I wrote for The Eagle almost three
years ago.

>
> There is another aspect to this tale, however, that is lost to

history and moves one primarily into the realm of reasonable
speculation. That speculation leads to a still unanswered question:
what happened to the Altar of Victory after the final defeat of the
Pagan Senatorial aristocracy?

>
> What is known is that in the 4th Century the Altar of Victory was

removed from and put back into the Senate Curia several times until
its likely final removal in 394 during the reign of Theodosius. (I
say likely because it is possible Stilicho briefly restored it to the
Senate in 408).

>
> What happened to it after that is a mystery from what I have been

able to determine. At first, it was probably put into storage in or
near the senate curia. Likely, it remained there for a number of
years, even decades until it appeared certain it was not going to be
returned to its place of honor in the senate. I have four theories as
to what may have happened to it at that point:

>
> It might have been destroyed at the instigation of some overzealous

Christian senators or officials, since the Ara Victoriae represented,
more than any other item, pagan Rome.

>
> It may have been moved to the private residence of one of remaining

members of the pagan senatorial aristocracy or a sympathetic
Christian senator who wished to save it for the future and love of
art and Roman history

>
> From there it may have been buried for to protect it; possibly it

fell into ruin through years of neglect or was turned into building
material by the family's descendants who did not appreciate, or
feared what was in their possession.

>
> Possibly it stayed in senate storage until being taken out and

broken into pieces for building material for a wall or new structure,
as many ancient artifacts and buildings were that were no longer
wanted. It could have been destroyed in the 410 sack of Rome.

>
> Which scenario is most likely? Least likely I think is option one.

The Christians of Rome did not display the destructiveness of that
elsewhere, such as in Alexandria. Neglect and barbarians did more
damage to Rome than religious zealots. Still, it is a possibility,
as is option four.

>
> If barbarians destroyed it during the sack of Rome, however, I am

certain that Christian writers would have not been silent on the
event but would have praised the act.

>
> I am a romantic and like to think option two is what happened, that

some pagan or Christian senatorial family saved the Ara Victoriae on
their property and that eventually it was buried to preserve it or
protect it. I am optimistic and hope that it will be found intact.

>
> However, realistically I am just as inclined to go with option

three, that it was taken out and used for building material for a new
structure, or even for road material. If this is the case then it is
possible that the pieces will be found through archaeological
excavation and pieced together, as has happened with some artifacts,
such as the Augustan Ara Pacis,

> Altar of Peace.
>
> This is all speculation. It does give one hope, however, for its

eventual recovery. When a Curia is built someday for the Nova Roman
Senate, it would be fitting to again have an Altar of Victory in a
place of honor at which we will be able to make offerings before
sessions. So much the better if the ancient one is found so we will
be able to make a precise copy.

>
> Never think an Altar of Victory is not needed, if only as a symbol.

In the words of Quintus Aurelius Symmachus, Quis ita familiaris est
barbaris, ut aram Victoriae non-requirat! "We are not on such terms
with the barbarians that we do not need an Altar of Victory!"

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:34 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Altar Of Victory
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> A question please; what ever became of the Altar of Victory once

it

> was removed from the Senate house? Does it still exist in a

museum,

> or was the altar destroyed?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ciao! mi interessa molto al progetto. Parlo Italiano, Francese, ed
Inglese.
bene vale Fabia Vera (nel Hibernia)

Please excuse my error for posting a private communication.



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

> Ciao! mi interessa molto al progetto. Parlo Italiano, Francese, ed
> Inglese.
> bene vale Fabia Vera (nel Hibernia)

Salve Pomponia,

I'll bet they'd love to have your help. Anyway its easy, when
distracted sometimes, to click the yahoo posting address rather than
the person's address. I've done that a few times and went a little
red faced!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Please excuse my error for posting a private communication.
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > Ciao! mi interessa molto al progetto. Parlo Italiano, Francese,
ed
> > Inglese.
> > bene vale Fabia Vera (nel Hibernia)

Salve Pauline,

many thanks for your answer. I think it should be interesting for all us.

C IVL MARIVS
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) [mailto:mjk@...]
Inviato: mercoledì 7 gennaio 2004 19.53
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: An historical question


Salve Mari,

Yes, these adoptions were possible. Also the "Dictionary Of the Roman
Empire" mentions that in the later republic and empire that some
Patricians had themselves adopted into Plebian families in order to
be eligable to run for tribunes and perhaps tow the point of view of
the patricians and senate.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What skills would you consider to be beneficial in assisting on
this? I am not very good with computers so alot of the web designing
and such if that is what you are looking for I would be rather inept
at it. Perhaps saying in what areas you are looking for ability then
perhaps I will be able to find something that I may be able to
contribute :)

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
<m_iulius@v...> wrote:

> M IVL PERVSIANVS AED CUR QVIRITIBVS SPD
>
> >Information on getting involved and ways to help out would be
> greatly appreciated
>
> At the moment I'm thinking about the composition of the Cohors and,
> among other duties, who is going to follow the MM project's first
> steps this year. In the very next days I'm going to appoint some NR
> citizens, according to their skills and experience. The main goals
> are, by now, the fund raising and the development of an official
> website.
>
> On a regular monthly basis the Cohors is going to post on this ml,

a

> report about the progress of the MM project.
>
> According to an agreement with University of Rome, later this year
> we'll probably need of a larger editorial staff (to be defined in
> terms of number and skills).
> Of course I will write again about this topic but, if some of you
> wishes, you can also write to me now at m_iulius @ virgilio.it (one
> single word) for information or to be considered in this next

request

> for volunteers.
>
> thanks
>
> Valete
>
> Marcus Iulius Perusianus
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Aedile Curule MMDCCLVII
> Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
> Magister Academiae Italicae
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
> SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

Salve Quinte Lani Pauline,

I've had no luck finding pictures of the altar reproduction - would you be
able to suggest a link, please? Gratias tibi ago.

Vale,

Placidia Prisca



In a message dated 07/01/04 19:02:30 GMT Standard Time, mjk@...
writes:

> Salve amice,
>
> Thank you for posting the article. I found a few pictures on the web
> of a reproduction of this altar. To nova Romans such a find would be
> as significant as finding the Ark Of The Covenant to the Christians
> and Jewish people don't you think?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to my readings, the Altar of Victory disappeared from history following the Sack of Rome in 455 by Gaiseric and his Vandals out of North Africa.

F. Gal Aur Sec

Salve Cai Minuci Scaevola,

Thanks for the suggestion of sorting by subject - it's making it a lot easier
to manage incoming E-mail and follow threads. I just wish the subject had
cropped up when the daily postings went into three figures prior to the
elections!

Vale,

Placidia Prisca

In a message dated 06/01/04 15:17:37 GMT Standard Time, ben@...
writes:

> Hint: enable _threading_ in your email program (I'm not sure what it's
> called in 0utlook and such; probably "Sort by subject" or something
> similar.)
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a very interesting question.

I used to be a Patrician, as a member of Gens Cassia, but now I am a Plebeian
as Pater Familias of Gens Modia. I asked Salix Astur -- then a Tribune at
the time -- if it would prohibit me from running for tribune (I ran and did not
get elected in 2002), he said it was perfectly fine to run for tribune now
that I was a Plebeian citizen.

Interesting question, I too would be interested in knowing the historical
accuracy of this.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/7/2004 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
c_iul_marius@... writes:
I'm reading about the recent change of Gens of a citizen. She passed from a
plebeian Gens to a patrician Gens and, if I correctly remember, she was
Tribunus Plebis.

Is there an historic example of a plebeian elected as Tribunus Plebis and,
then, passed in a patrician Gens ?

VALETE
C IVL MARIVS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

> This is a very interesting question.
>
> I used to be a Patrician, as a member of Gens Cassia, but now I am

a Plebeian

> as Pater Familias of Gens Modia. I asked Salix Astur -- then a

Tribune at

> the time -- if it would prohibit me from running for tribune (I

ran and did not

> get elected in 2002), he said it was perfectly fine to run for

tribune now

> that I was a Plebeian citizen.
>
> Interesting question, I too would be interested in knowing the

historical

> accuracy of this.
>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius

In 59 BCE during Ceasar's consulship the Patrician Publius Clodius
Pulcher had himself adopted into a Plebian family specifically to
run for Tribune. He was successful and elected for 58 BCE. I do
not know of the reverse ever happening ins antiquia.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Salve Athanosius

I have already agreed it was likely a typo. Furthermore, I was close to the point of asking him to cease on the grounds of redundancy - this is the third day on a petty matter, and discussions cannot be said to be "advancing" as per the Main List Guidellines - far from it!

Whatever your personal grievance with him, however, you may have succeeded by your comments on the grammar of a non-native English speaker to give offense to everyone of our Citizens who uses English as a Second Language. That was my objection.

As you know, I don't much care about Politics, but the Main List is a key issue with me. Every visitor who was reading our List yesterday who wasn't from England or North America now may be feeling this is a hostile environment for non-native English speakers. That kind of impression is the only thing I am concerned with here.

Our conduct on the Main List must remain Civilized and welcoming.

Vale
~ Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus

-----Original Message-----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
Sent: Jan 7, 2004 9:06 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Magna Mater project and a quaestor

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus:

I stand by my words. You don't like them, that is your right. But I will
not sit back and watch him and his provincial staff attack a person I feel has
served our Republic well. I take his statements as attacks. If he were using
these same tactics against someone else I would also defend that person, I
believe his attacks are unjustified and without merit.

BTW, a Tribune in Nova Roma reports the results of the Senate in English.
Reports have to be accurate. It is "obscene" to point out a mathematical error
(more likely a keyboarding error) of a potential quaestor while ignoring your
own errors in communication in an office were communication is critical. This
is not apples and oranges, but fruit from the same tree.

One may contend that my comments are rude, but attacking a woman for a simple
error in an e-mail and then questioning her abilities within her chosen
profession is a far graver offense.

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/7/2004 8:39:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hermeticagnosis@... writes:
Apples & Oranges, Athanasius, apples & oranges.

F. Apulus was merely pointing out a math error made by someone who is
running for an office requiring some math skills, which is relevant, although I do
not personally think it is too relevant - actually, I thought it was a typo.

However, you are criticizing his English skills when he is not a native
English speaker, as you well know, and while he is making a private post - not
campaigning for a position as Scribe; so your comment about his grammar is not
only irrelevant but is rude and insulting.

We are an international organization with many English as a Second Language
people; your criticizing their English grammar skills is obscene. How's your
Italian for replying to F. Apulus, if you don't like his English, or your
German if you want to get into the Forum discussions? Your Spanish? Your
Portuguese?

If you were forced to participate via one of the overseas Lists, you would
probably think twice about this kind of behaviour.

Vale
Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

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SALVETE OMNES

About Altar of Victory, I found the famous epistolary exchange among
Symmachus, Prefect of Rome, and St Ambrose, bishop of Milan.
You can read it at the following address:

http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/christopher.haas/symm-ambr.htm

It's interesting, as it can be considered one of the last Struggle
between Christianity and Ancient Customs.

VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Italia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

> According to my readings, the Altar of Victory disappeared from
>history following the Sack of Rome in 455 by Gaiseric and his
>Vandals out of North Africa.

That's Interesting, I've never heard of it beyond 408 (I believe this
is from Claudian) and the last credible info I've seen is it
disappeared from sight in 394--though I may have overlooked
something. What's your source? That doesn't sound right at so late a
date.

Palladius

Ave Lupa,

> According to an agreement with University of Rome, later this year
> we'll probably need of a larger editorial staff (to be defined in
> terms of number and skills).

as said, I still don't know exactly what kind of skills we need. But
I guess that you're right when you say that web design is part of the
job.
I'll answer to the question as soon as I have more information :-)

vale
M IVL PERVSIANVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha" <lucia_modia_lupa@y...>
wrote:

>
> What skills would you consider to be beneficial in assisting on
> this? I am not very good with computers so alot of the web

designing

> and such if that is what you are looking for I would be rather

inept

> at it. Perhaps saying in what areas you are looking for ability

then

> perhaps I will be able to find something that I may be able to
> contribute :)
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
> <m_iulius@v...> wrote:
> > M IVL PERVSIANVS AED CUR QVIRITIBVS SPD
> >
> > >Information on getting involved and ways to help out would be
> > greatly appreciated
> >
> > At the moment I'm thinking about the composition of the Cohors

and,

> > among other duties, who is going to follow the MM project's first
> > steps this year. In the very next days I'm going to appoint some

NR

> > citizens, according to their skills and experience. The main

goals

> > are, by now, the fund raising and the development of an official
> > website.
> >
> > On a regular monthly basis the Cohors is going to post on this

ml,

> a
> > report about the progress of the MM project.
> >
> > According to an agreement with University of Rome, later this

year

> > we'll probably need of a larger editorial staff (to be defined in
> > terms of number and skills).
> > Of course I will write again about this topic but, if some of you
> > wishes, you can also write to me now at m_iulius @ virgilio.it

(one

> > single word) for information or to be considered in this next
> request
> > for volunteers.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Marcus Iulius Perusianus
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Aedile Curule MMDCCLVII
> > Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
> > Magister Academiae Italicae
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> > Italia Provincia: http://italia.novaroma.org
> > SignaRomanorum: http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

Salvete omnes
Begining January 15th I'll be away on vacations until the first days of February (probably Feb. 7th or so).

A partir del 15 de Enero estaré fuera de Internet , en vacaciones hasta principios de Febrero (probablemente Febrero 7)

Bene valete
L. Pompeius Octavianus



Ego sidera stellasque amo et semper amabo. Atque Romam antiquam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Placidia Prisca -

On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 02:34:28PM -0500, KECTAM@... wrote:
> Salve Cai Minuci Scaevola,
>
> Thanks for the suggestion of sorting by subject - it's making it a lot easier
> to manage incoming E-mail and follow threads. I just wish the subject had
> cropped up when the daily postings went into three figures prior to the
> elections!

[grin] I suspect you're also thinking of "Delete by Subject", too...
You're certainly welcome, and I'm glad it was of help.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
My conscience means more to me than all speech.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"

Salvete omnes,

Sorry, I goofed up and lost the url I had with a picture; I'm looking
and will keep my eyes peeled. Frustrating to say the least!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > According to my readings, the Altar of Victory disappeared from
> >history following the Sack of Rome in 455 by Gaiseric and his
> >Vandals out of North Africa.
>
> That's Interesting, I've never heard of it beyond 408 (I believe
this
> is from Claudian) and the last credible info I've seen is it
> disappeared from sight in 394--though I may have overlooked
> something. What's your source? That doesn't sound right at so late
a
> date.
>
> Palladius

A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Iulius Iustinus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm recovering from a cold, but
otherwise well.

> A few questions on changes of gens, if I may. The
> Lex Cornelia et
> Maria de Mutandis Nominibus says at II.C, "The nomen
> identifies a
> citizen's gens. Since a change in the stem of a
> citizen's nomen would
> necessitate a change in gens -- a case of either
> adoptio or the
> founding of a new gens -- it is beyond the scope of
> this edictum."
>
> Is this lex interpreted to mean that all changes of
> gens are either
> adoptions or the founding of a new gens? Or is there
> a third category
> where the changes of gens are merely changes of
> gens?

Family law is relatively under-developed in Nova Roma,
so the area is hazy. I personally would say that the
wording of the clause you quote is not strong enough
to make adoption and gens-creation unquestionably the
only two legal ways in which a citizen may change
gens. But it does imply it, and it's a reasonable
implication.

I suspect, and hope, that we shall see family law in
Nova Roma becoming much tighter and better worked-out
once our system of gentes and familiae is set upon a
historical footing, since this will allow Roman legal
principles to be applied to Nova Roma much more
easily.

> The Constitution, at III.A.2, gives the Comitia
> Curiata the
> responsibility, inter alia, to witness adoptions.
>
> Does this mean that the Comitia Curiata ratifies
> adoptions previously
> approved by the Pater/Materfamilias? If so, does the
> adoption take
> effect upon approval by the Pater/Materfamilias, or
> upon
> the "witness" of the Comitia Curiata?

Historically, only the type of adoption called
adrogatio had to be voted by the comitia curiata.
Adrogatio occurred, as I understand it, only when the
adopted person was sui iuris - in other words, not
under the patria potestas of any other person, i.e. an
adult man whose father was no longer living or who had
been emancipated by his father.

If transposed to Nova Roma, adrogatio would be the
more common form of adoption (at least to begin with)
since we have more adult citizens than children and
all adult citizens are held to be sui iuris.

I know of no examples in Nova Roma's history of an
adoption being ratified by the comitia curiata, and I
don't think the section of the constitution you quote
is clear enough to make it a legal requirement for
adoptions to be ratified by that assembly. It would,
however, be desirable either to require instances of
adrogatio to be ratified by the comitia curiata or
else to make it legally explicit that they need not
be.

As a side-note, the other historical form of adoption,
adoptio, had to be performed in the presence of a
curule magistrate or a provincial governor - I suspect
this requirement is not strictly adhered to in Nova
Roma either, if indeed there has ever been a case of
adoptio here at all.

I hope this is of some help.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
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A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

Tribune Galerius Paulinus recently used the title

> Curator Differum Emeritus

... and I think I noticed Senator Equitius Cincinnatus
call himself Censor Emeritus.

Now, I know nowadays 'emeritus' is often attached to
the end of a title to indicate former possession of
the office in question. But when I look in my portable
Latin dictionary (I'm not at home at the moment) the
primary meanings of 'emeritus' are given as
'superannuated' and 'worn out', which of course are
rather less flattering.

Is my dictionary too small to tell me that there's a
more positive meaning, or are we accidentally
insulting our former magistrates?

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

Salve Omnes:

What is the current arrangement for paying taxes?


Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Nauta

A. Apollonius Cordus to Cornelius Laureatus Armoricus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm getting better.

I have sent a note of protest to the censors on this
matter. But it seems to be becoming a matter of minor
public interest; and since you say...

> I am surprised to see that the champions of
> historical veracity have stayed
> so silent so far, with the exception of noble Fabius
> Maximus who expressed
> some doubts about the whole exercise...

... I feel I ought, having recently made a minor fuss
over another point of naming protocol, to comment
briefly.

I have the greatest respect for Senator Minucius
Audens and for both the censors, but I must say this
procedure strikes me as highly undesirable. I know of
no precedent for the merging of gentes in this way,
and double-barrelled nomina verge on the ridiculous to
say the least.

It will grieve me to see the names of such eminent
citizens as Senator Audens, my former colleague
Minucius Scaevola and my current colleague Minucius
Hadrianus disfigured in this profoundly un-Roman way.
I hope the parties involved will consider reversing
the move, and at the least I hope there will be no
sequel.

To broaden the issue briefly: everyone is agreed that
the formal institutions of our system of gentes need
to be made more historical, and that we must treat
gentes and families less as associations of friends or
role-play relatives and more as genuine units of
kinship (whether this is blood-kinship or ties of
mutual obligation with similar strength). Hopefully we
will soon see these formal changes made. But we will
not deserve them if we continue to regard gentile and
familial relationships in our old way. There is a
difference between liking and admiring someone and
wanting to be his or her son or daughter. There is a
difference between undertaking to keep an eye on
another person's family and assimilating that family
into one's own.

I understand that we have not achieved gens reform
yet, and these peculiarities may be excused by the
argument that it is not yet possible to consider
gentes as genuine families. I do not condemn anyone
for behaving in this way. But if gens reform is
coming, we really must wean ourselves off this way of
thinking as soon as possible. If in a few years' time
we are not able to say that, by and large, every set
of citizens with the same nomen and cognomen are
either related by blood or so devoted to one another
that one would think they were, why, we shall not have
deserved gens reform at all.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

A. Apollonius Cordus to L. Iulius Sulla and all
citizens and peregrines, rgeetings.

> It's interesting, as it can be considered one of the
> last Struggle
> between Christianity and Ancient Customs.

As this subject wanders past, let me recommend a book:
C.W. Hendrick, 'History and Silence: The Purge and
Rehabilitation of Memory in Late Antiquity'
(University of Texas Press, 2000).

Cunningly disguised as a dry and obscure treatise on a
late Roman inscription, this book is a very
interesting and readable exploration of the conflicts
of Christianity and paganism, the nature of
commemoration and its absence, and just about
everything else. Absolutely fascinating.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Tribune Galerius Paulinus recently used the title
>
> > Curator Differum Emeritus
>
> ... and I think I noticed Senator Equitius Cincinnatus
> call himself Censor Emeritus.
>
> Now, I know nowadays 'emeritus' is often attached to
> the end of a title to indicate former possession of
> the office in question. But when I look in my portable
> Latin dictionary (I'm not at home at the moment) the
> primary meanings of 'emeritus' are given as
> 'superannuated' and 'worn out', which of course are
> rather less flattering.
>
> Is my dictionary too small to tell me that there's a
> more positive meaning, or are we accidentally
> insulting our former magistrates?

Salve,

[Latin meritus, past participle of merr, to earn by service : -, ex-,
from; see ex- + merr, to deserve, earn; see (s)mer-2 in Indo-European
Roots.] -- courtsey of Dictionary.com

Ov coarse now everyone nose howe I uszuale mange two rite widout two
manie spelign erers. <G>

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

In a message dated 1/7/04 5:43:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:

Salvete

> will grieve me to see the names of such eminent
> citizens as Senator Audens, my former colleague
> Minucius Scaevola and my current colleague Minucius
> Hadrianus disfigured in this profoundly un-Roman way.
> I hope the parties involved will consider reversing
> the move, and at the least I hope there will be no
> sequel.
>

I too was upset, only because this moves us away from being Romans, and more
towards being Germans. What's next, we all get our Comitenses?

> To broaden the issue briefly: everyone is agreed that
> the formal institutions of our system of gentes need
> to be made more historical, and that we must treat
> gentes and families less as associations of friends or
> role-play relatives and more as genuine units of
> kinship (whether this is blood-kinship or ties of
> mutual obligation with similar strength).

The problem with this is simple. Too soon. We have no blood ties in a gens
that has 50 members like Iuli, or 45 members like the Corneli. Such ties
would be impossible.
I have no family interested in Romans other than those members who are in my
gens, and who you disparaging call role players.

Hopefully we > will soon see these formal changes made. But we will

> not deserve them if we continue to regard gentile and
> familial relationships in our old way. There is a
> difference between liking and admiring someone and
> wanting to be his or her son or daughter. There is a
> difference between undertaking to keep an eye on
> another person's family and assimilating that family
> into one's own.
>

Again you are right and I see this happening in 20 years. But not at this
time.
What about the rights of the paters that work so hard in putting these gens
together?
Aren't their rights protected under Roman law as well?

> I understand that we have not achieved gens reform
> yet, and these peculiarities may be excused by the
> argument that it is not yet possible to consider
> gentes as genuine families. I do not condemn anyone
> for behaving in this way. But if gens reform is
> coming, we really must wean ourselves off this way of
> thinking as soon as possible. If in a few years' time
> we are not able to say that, by and large, every set
> of citizens with the same nomen and cognomen are
> either related by blood or so devoted to one another
> that one would think they were, why, we shall not have
> deserved gens reform at all.
>

That is a ridiculous statement for someone as learned as you. We are at the
point were the Latins were back in the 8th century BCE. Do you really believe
that Roman families sprang up overnight? It took at least 200 years for the
Roman family system to be valid, the Gentes by that time was a legendary
memory. Roman families honor their Gens and its ancestors as their starting point,
nothing more. We cannot have family ties without families.
I consider all my Gens members- joined and adopted- to be an extended family,
yes even Casio Fabius, and I try to help them out whenever asked in anyway I
can.

That was the way it was in the early times, and so it should be now, in our
sixth year of existance.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus" <
a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Tribune Galerius Paulinus recently used the title
>
> > Curator Differum Emeritus
>
> ... and I think I noticed Senator Equitius Cincinnatus
> call himself Censor Emeritus.
>
> Now, I know nowadays 'emeritus' is often attached to
> the end of a title to indicate former possession of
> the office in question. But when I look in my portable
> Latin dictionary (I'm not at home at the moment) the
> primary meanings of 'emeritus' are given as
> 'superannuated' and 'worn out', which of course are
> rather less flattering.
>
> Is my dictionary too small to tell me that there's a
> more positive meaning, or are we accidentally
> insulting our former magistrates?
>

___________________________________________________________________

> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

Flavia Tullia Aulo Apollonio Cordo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.

"Emeritus" is the past participle of "emereo," which Lewis and Short, the unabridged
Latin-English dictionary, defines as "obtain by service, merit, deserve, gain," "gain the
favor of, deserve well of, lay under obligation," "to serve out, complete," ergo "emeritus,"
a soldier who has served out his time, a veteran, an exempt." The meanings "worn out,
unfit for service" are also given, as are "burned out, extinguished, " but these are at the
end of the list, and probably less common.

We wouldn't dream of insulting our former magistrates, now would we (especially not
our sole augur)?

Once again, I shall add my disclaimer: this is not intended to insult anyone, whether
or not named above--not even small dictionaries, which I also use upon occasion. The
unabridged one is quite heavy, and won't fit in my purse (lingua in bucca)!

Valete,

Flavia Tullia

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem VII Idus Ianuarii; the day is comitialis.

Tomorrow is ante diem VI Idus Ianuarii; the day is comitialis.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Philip I, Emperor of Rome AD 244 - 249: Antoninianus
Presentation":

http://ettuantiquities.com/Philip_1/index.htm

This site provides a detailed study of the coins of Philip the Arab.
It is, however, sponsored by an antiquities dealer and while the
information is accurate, I oppose in principle the trade in
antiquities and do not recommend commercial patronage.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete Apollonius Nauta et Omnes,


The Consuls have not yet issued the edict on taxes for MMDCCLVII
A.V.C. Currently, in fact almost as I type, the tax rates for the
various macronations within our Provinciae are being calculated, the
exchange rates calculated and the tax in both US dollars and local
currency is being calculated. When that task is completed, the edict
drafted and approved, the Consuls will issue it. The methods to be
used to pay taxes will be listed in the edict.

I am glad to see so many people who are so eager to pay their taxes!
Please be patient, there will be plenty of time in which to do so.

Valete,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia
Quaestor
livia_cornelia_hibernia@...
http://members.cox.net/livia_cornelia_hibernia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, ames0826@c... wrote:
> Salve Omnes:
>
> What is the current arrangement for paying taxes?
>
>
> Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Nauta

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

The only reasons I have no weighed in on this issue earlier are a
personal one (I think our current gens system is so much a
goat-screw, as we used to call such things in the army, that I
despair of implementing a truly Roman system in any way but
incrementally -- as consular T. Labienus and the current consules
propose -- and letting two generations work out real familial
relationships) and a philological one. There are a handful of gens
names from the regal period which look philologically like fusions of
two independent nomen elements. I don't quite have the ballocks to
tell a consular not to do something the censores have permitted him
to do, if there's a chance he's done something Numa Rex permitted (or
which antedated him into the mists of Roman antiquity).

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/7/04 5:43:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@y... writes:

Salve Q. Fabi, salve A. Apolloni, salvete omnes,

> > To broaden the issue briefly: everyone is agreed that
> > the formal institutions of our system of gentes need
> > to be made more historical, and that we must treat
> > gentes and families less as associations of friends or
> > role-play relatives and more as genuine units of
> > kinship (whether this is blood-kinship or ties of
> > mutual obligation with similar strength).
>
> The problem with this is simple. Too soon. We have no blood ties
>in a gens that has 50 members like Iuli, or 45 members like the
>Corneli. Such ties would be impossible.
> I have no family interested in Romans other than those members who
>are in my gens, and who you disparaging call role players.

You are right, it is far too soon for the so-called gens reform as we
are embarking upon now. Historical gentes are impossible in Nova Roma-
-gens reform won't change that. Only many decades will change that
and even then it may not.

You have the hit the crux of the matter when referring to families.
Historical gentes and familiae are impossible for all but a few
because most of don't have Roman families and likely NEVER will. No
one in my family is interested in Rome at all, who knows if any
children will; my only familial Roman connections are my gens members
or friends I am close to. Moving to so-called historical familiae
will only create hundreds of one person families, all pater/maters of
their own families with no connection to others who bear their names.
It will divide Nova Romans and be another--probably the biggest--nail
in NR's coffin.

I understand the desire of the handful of people in NR who have whole
Roman families, husband and wife, sometimes children. Those people
should have created new gentes entirely instead of joining
preexisting ones. I don't understand the desire to take us down this
path of division.

The only chance to create "historical" gentes and familiae was at the
founding of Nova Roma and it likely wouldn't have worked even then.
At that time one person or couple would have taken any gens name.
There would have been one person with the name Iunius, two with the
name Cassius, two Vedii. And so on with other names as people joined,
one Equitius, one Cornelius, etc. Any children any of us had or have
would have been designated by cognomina. Those children would have
created familiae of their own, and their children familiae, etc. That
would have been a true founding of historical gentes, from one
family. Since most people wouldn't be able to have a true Roman
family, the gens names would die with the original founder(s) except
for the occasional possible adoptions.

Since that course was impossible and remains impossible in an
organization composed of hundreds of individuals scattered throughout
the world, the other option was to bind us together through our
gentes, which we have done.

> > I understand that we have not achieved gens reform
> > yet, and these peculiarities may be excused by the
> > argument that it is not yet possible to consider
> > gentes as genuine families. I do not condemn anyone
> > for behaving in this way. But if gens reform is
> > coming, we really must wean ourselves off this way of
> > thinking as soon as possible. If in a few years' time
> > we are not able to say that, by and large, every set
> > of citizens with the same nomen and cognomen are
> > either related by blood or so devoted to one another
> > that one would think they were, why, we shall not have
> > deserved gens reform at all.
> >
>
> That is a ridiculous statement for someone as learned as you. We
>are at the point were the Latins were back in the 8th century BCE.
>Do you really believe that Roman families sprang up overnight? It
>took at least 200 years for the Roman family system to be valid, the
>Gentes by that time was a legendary memory. Roman families honor
>their Gens and its ancestors as their starting point,
> nothing more. We cannot have family ties without families.
> I consider all my Gens members- joined and adopted- to be an
>extended family, yes even Casio Fabius, and I try to help them out
>whenever asked in anyway I can.

Again you are right. I think it highly likely, almost certain, that
we will NOT be able to say that in a few year's time that most people
with the same nomen and cognomen will be related. Perhaps in 20 or 50
years if we still exist there may be a small core of Roman families
but I suspect that we will still primarily be a group of individuals,
not familes. No, Nova Roma does not deserve gens reform inflicted
upon it. This is one area where it is impossible to be historical.

Valete,

Palladius

SALVE A. APOLLONI CORDE

> > It's interesting, as it can be considered one of the
> > last Struggle
> > between Christianity and Ancient Customs.
>
> As this subject wanders past, let me recommend a book:
> C.W. Hendrick, 'History and Silence: The Purge and
> Rehabilitation of Memory in Late Antiquity'
> (University of Texas Press, 2000).

Thank you very much, great theme. I'll look for it as soon I'll leave
my hospital!

VALE
L IUL SULLA