G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is Kalendae Februarii; the day is nefastus. It is the feria of
Iuno Sospita. A sacrifice to Iuno Sospita and Ianus was made by a
Pontifex and the Rex Sacrorum in the Comitia Calabra, and another
sacrifice was made at the temple of Iuno Sospita, after which the
Pontifex would announce the date of the Nonae Februarii. Shortly
thereafter the Regina Sacrorum made sacrifice to Iuno Sospita in the
Regia. Iuno Sospita (Iuno the Saviour) is an aspect of Iuno
associated with agriculture and fertility.


Tomorrow is ante diem IV Nonae Februarii; the day is nefastus and
sacred to Iuno Februra, the mother of Mars, and the Feria Cereris.
Roasted spelt and salt was was offered to Ceres on this day. The
rites to Iuno Februra on this day are not known, although they too,
according to Ovid, involved spelt cakes and salt. There is probably
some etymological connection between the appellation Februra and the
februa, instruments used for propitiation to ward off divine anger,
like the goat-skin strips of the Lupercalia later in the month.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Wondrous Glass: Reflections on the World of Rome, c.
50 BC-AD 650":

http://www.umich.edu/~kelseydb/Exhibits/WondrousGlass/MainGlass.html

This is a virtual exhibition of the Kelsey Museum of Archaeology of
the Univ. Of Michigan.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Salvete Pompeia Cornelia, Gai Modi Athanasi, Gai Lani Falco et omnes,

Thank you for your good wishes on my new appointment as Legate for
Canada Occidentalis. I look forward to working with our Propraetor
and citizens to build a strong and productive province in NR.

I will be changing locations tomorrow and am standing by for the
arrival of a new rig in our area; therefore I may be off line for a
day or two. I'll catch up on things then.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Lanius Falco Omnibus SPD

Salvete, omnes

Information about a program of interest follows below:


Monday, February 9, 2004
____________________________________________________

7-8pm -- Modern Marvels - The Colosseum
Nothing symbolizes the Roman Empire at its height
or Rome in magnificent ruins more than the
Colosseum. Built in 70 AD, it seated 80,000
people, boasted a retractable roof, underground
staging devices, marble seating, and lavish
decorations. It still serves as the prototype for
the modern stadium. The complexity of its
construction, the beauty of its architecture, and
the functionality of its design made it the
perfect place for massive crowds to congregate
for the bloody spectacles it contained.


Valete,

G. Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Citizens and Magistrates of Rome!

In the NR Main List posting #20298, Q Fabius Maximus wrote:

"I think you are full of horse dung...can I say that, Praetors?"

He was apparently addressing this first remark to citizen Servius
Equitius Mercurius Troianus, from whose letter he had just quoted at
length, although the barnyard insult bore no salutation.

I would refer to the Edictum Praetoricium (ML Guidelines) article V
subheading 'Inappropriate Behavior': "...criticising a poster's
character as opposed to criticising his ideas".

I am merely a citizen, but I did not join NR to participate in a
Forum where a man in high office may presume to address a citizen
with such ad hominem barnyard coprolalia, and not be called to
account for it. The comment refered directly to the man himself,
not to his ideas. It was not "Your opinion is (worthless)". And it
was not even an insult which could extrapolate into the realm of
ideology, such as "You are ignorant" or "you are vainglorious". It
was, in fact, as crude a barnyard ad hominem attack upon the
recipient's character as could be crafted.

Are we citizens to labor under this abuse of power? Or are we a
nation of laws?

"Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far drives the thundering jet,
Up leaps a race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet ---

We pray for one last landing
On the globe that gave us birth;
Let us rest our eyes on the fleecy skies
And the cool, green hills of Earth."
Robert Anson Heinlein

Rick D. Husband, Commander
William C. McCool, Pilot
Michael P. Anderson, Payload Commander
Kalpana Chawla, Mission Specialist
David M. Brown, Mission Specialist
Laurel B. Clark, Mission Specialist
Ilan Ramon, Israel, Payload Specialist

Columbia, STS-107
08:59 EST
February 1, 2003

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess;
moderation is for monks. - Heinlein

This week also marks the third disaster that befel the United States
space program.

On January 27th 1967 the Apollo 1 crew was doing preflight tests for
the first Apollo mission planned for a Feburay 1967 launch.

A Fire broke out in the Apollo 1 Capsule killing all three astronauts,
two of whom had achieved the status of national heros for thier
earlier deeds in space.

Three Hills on Mars were named for these men last week.

Virgil "Gus" Grissom
Edward White
Roger Chaffee

A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune Ti. Galerius Paulinus
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I hope you're well; I'm well.

This sounds like an excellent idea. Off the top of my
head I can think of a duplicate copy of some of
Plutarch's Roman lives that I could send (though I
should have to consult with Fabia Livia - what's hers
is mine, &c.).

Before I send it off, though, I wonder whether you
could clarify: will the library be a private
enterprise run by yourself as a philanthropic project,
or will it be run or supervised in any way by the
senate or any other organ of the state? And how will
the library be run? If there is a charter,
constitution or other regulatory document which gives
the answer to such questions, feel free simply to
refer me to it.

Thanks.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Salve, Pompeia Cornelia; salvete, omnes.

On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 11:08:18PM -0000, pompeia_cornelia wrote:
> ---Salvete Minucius et Omnes:
>
> I am Canadian.
>
> I use Shaw Cable, which as far as I know are competitors of Rogers. I
> know of no Roger's connections in my immediate area, unless they are
> used for Laps. We have only one LAN connection.
>
> Just wanted to confirm that I read this note, and my system *seems* to
> be ok, although these days one says that with baited breath.

...unless one runs Linux. :) Or BSD, or OS/X, or any non-legacy system.
That's why I'm perfectly unworried about people sending me these things.
As for the Wind0ws folks - well, these are the traditional steps:

1) Boot with a known clean floppy. (Note the large assumption in this!)
2) Run your anti-virus checker with the latest updated info.

Most people do not do the first, which makes the test meaningless (once
a stealth virus is up and running, it's pretty much impossible to detect
- and many viruses today are stealthed.)

> thanks for the heads up.

[smile] A pleasure. Hope it helps someone.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat.
Great is the power of truth that can easily defend itself with its own force.
-- N/A

Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus -

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:12:44AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
> > and his actions were far more akin to, say, someone in America in
> > 1775 or 1776 appealing to the British government for help, something
> > that would be seen as treason.
>
> Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola,
>
> Treason is an ideological concept. In China the concepts of
> democratic elections, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion are
> considered treason and until little over a decade ago the same was
> true in a huge swath of real estate then known as the Soviet Union and
> the Warsaw Pact. In 1775 in the eyes of the British Crown a "Tory"
> was a loyal citizen and the likes of Washington, Jefferson, Paine,
> Adams, Franklin, Hancock were nothing more than rabble-rousing traitors.
>
> Drusus' actions hardly rise to the level of treason. Perhaps to the
> level of farting in an airlock or belching loudly in a 5 star
> restaurant, but not treason.

Please note that I agree with you. I was not saying that Drusus actions
*were* treason; I was correcting Palladius' apologia/metaphor which was
_completely_ divorced from the situation to something that was a bit
closer.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
-- Cicero, "Philippicae orationes". Often quoted "errare humanum est,
ignoscere divinum" - to err is human, to forgive divine.

Salve -

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 12:18:02PM -0000, D Butler wrote:
> Citizens and Magistrates of Rome!
>
> In the NR Main List posting #20298, Q Fabius Maximus wrote:
>
> "I think you are full of horse dung...can I say that, Praetors?"
>
> He was apparently addressing this first remark to citizen Servius
> Equitius Mercurius Troianus, from whose letter he had just quoted at
> length, although the barnyard insult bore no salutation.
>
> I would refer to the Edictum Praetoricium (ML Guidelines) article V
> subheading 'Inappropriate Behavior': "...criticising a poster's
> character as opposed to criticising his ideas".
>
> I am merely a citizen, but I did not join NR to participate in a
> Forum where a man in high office may presume to address a citizen
> with such ad hominem barnyard coprolalia, and not be called to
> account for it. The comment refered directly to the man himself,
> not to his ideas. It was not "Your opinion is (worthless)". And it
> was not even an insult which could extrapolate into the realm of
> ideology, such as "You are ignorant" or "you are vainglorious". It
> was, in fact, as crude a barnyard ad hominem attack upon the
> recipient's character as could be crafted.
>
> Are we citizens to labor under this abuse of power? Or are we a
> nation of laws?

We are, in fact, a nation of laws - something that is being tested now
with the Nota against LSD, who spurned our legal structure. However, the
laws - or at least their current interpretation - require someone to
formally petition the Praetors in regard to the specific violation. I've
been mulling on this particular instance; Quintus Fabius Maximus has, in
fact, been frothing entirely too much and showing himself more and more
desirous of moderation.

Yes, I think it's time - and past time. Praetors, I'll be sending a
formal request in a separate email.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
Don't you know then, my son, how little wisdom rules the world?
-- Said by the Swedish chancellor Axel Oxenstierna to encourage his son Johan when
he doubted his ability to represent Sweden at the Westphalian peace conference.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D Butler" <doris-butler@s...> wrote:

> Citizens and Magistrates of Rome!
>
> Are we citizens to labor under this abuse of power? Or are we a
> nation of laws?

Salve,

Those are two very good questions. If I may, I'd like to add a third
question. Are we going to permit the selective enforcement of Nova
Roma's laws against those that express politically inconvenient
opinions while allowing others to get a "free ride"? The question
of "abuse of power" is a sword that cuts both ways.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus -
>
> On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:12:44AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > and his actions were far more akin to, say, someone in America in
> > > 1775 or 1776 appealing to the British government for help, something
> > > that would be seen as treason.
> >
> > Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola,
> >
> > Treason is an ideological concept. In China the concepts of
> > democratic elections, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion are
> > considered treason and until little over a decade ago the same was
> > true in a huge swath of real estate then known as the Soviet Union and
> > the Warsaw Pact. In 1775 in the eyes of the British Crown a "Tory"
> > was a loyal citizen and the likes of Washington, Jefferson, Paine,
> > Adams, Franklin, Hancock were nothing more than rabble-rousing

traitors.

> >
> > Drusus' actions hardly rise to the level of treason. Perhaps to the
> > level of farting in an airlock or belching loudly in a 5 star
> > restaurant, but not treason.
>
> Please note that I agree with you. I was not saying that Drusus actions
> *were* treason; I was correcting Palladius' apologia/metaphor which was
> _completely_ divorced from the situation to something that was a bit
> closer.
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola

Salve,

If you agree with me that Drusus' actions hardly rise to the level of
treason, then would you not say that your analogy was just as divorced
from the situation than Palladius' metaphor? If so why bring treason
into the word picture at all? There are some that might consider
doing so to be slanderous and I wouldn't want to see you brought up on
charges in a political feeding frenzy.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 03:21:49PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Please note that I agree with you. I was not saying that Drusus actions
> > *were* treason; I was correcting Palladius' apologia/metaphor which was
> > _completely_ divorced from the situation to something that was a bit
> > closer.
>
> Salve,
>
> If you agree with me that Drusus' actions hardly rise to the level of
> treason, then would you not say that your analogy was just as divorced
> from the situation than Palladius' metaphor?

No; mine at least parallels the situation.

> If so why bring treason
> into the word picture at all?

Because that would be the equivalent of his action in a macronation. We
aren't one, so it isn't - but all metaphors are limited, which, of
course, makes /reductio ad absurdum/ trivial.

> There are some that might consider
> doing so to be slanderous and I wouldn't want to see you brought up on
> charges in a political feeding frenzy.

I truly appreciate your concern, but it's not an issue I'm worried
about. Anyone who wishes to bring charges against me for something I've
clearly stated to be a metaphor rather than actuality is welcome to do
so; unlike Drusus, I'm willing to use and trust our justice system.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
A liar needs a good memory.
-- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"

Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus; salvete, omnes -

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 03:10:17PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D Butler" <doris-butler@s...> wrote:
> > Citizens and Magistrates of Rome!
> >
> > Are we citizens to labor under this abuse of power? Or are we a
> > nation of laws?
>
> Salve,
>
> Those are two very good questions. If I may, I'd like to add a third
> question. Are we going to permit the selective enforcement of Nova
> Roma's laws against those that express politically inconvenient
> opinions while allowing others to get a "free ride"? The question
> of "abuse of power" is a sword that cuts both ways.

Could you perhaps describe the selective permission mechanism that
you're seeing? I must confess to being completely at a loss to see it.
If someone here has broken the law, I can't think of anything that would
prohibit anyone from preferring charges no matter what the violator's
political affiliation may be. For example, I've just written to the
Praetors about Quintus Fabius Maximus' violation of the list guidelines,
and feel sure that he will be punished impartially and to the same
extent as any violator would be - if the Praetors decide that his
actions merit it, of course - regardless of his senatorial status, gens
affiliation to our high magistrates, or any pull that his political
friends may exert. You may certainly trust me to protest most
vociferously if I see any of those factors as mitigating matters in the
least; in fact, I would expect anyone who is even slightly concerned
with the question you've brought up to add their voices to mine if that
should come to pass.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Terence, "Phormio"

Ex Officio Consulis Gnaei Equiti Marini

EDICTVM CONSVLARE A GNAEO EQVITIO MARINO II: EDICTVM VECTIGALE

Secundum Senatus consultum mense Novembre anno MMDCCLV A.V.C. iussum,
<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2002-11-09-results.html>,
pretium vectigalium anno MMDCCLVII ex hoc statuo.

Pursuant to the Senatus consultum passed in November of 2755 auc,
<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2002-11-09-results.html>
I hereby establish the tax rates for 2757.

I. Pretia vectigalium anno MMDCCLVII secundum aestimationes in tabula
comitanti constituta sunt. Patriae in provinciis exstantibus sitae
secundum provinciarum ordinem primo scribuntur; patriae sine provinciis
secundum litterarum nominum ordinem sequuntur.

1. Tax rates for 2757 are set according to the values in the following
table. Countries within existing provinces are listed first in order
of province, followed by countries without provinces in alphabetical
order.


TABVLA PRETIORVM VECTIGALIVM ANNO MMDCCVII A.V.C.
TAX RATE TABLE FOR 2757 ab urbe condita

Tax Amount in Tax Amount
Macronation Provincia Local Currency in USD
==========================================================================
United States America Austroccidentalis 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Austrorientalis 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Boreoccidentalis 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Medioccidentalis Sup. 12.00 USD 12.00
Argentina Argentina 10.00 ARS 3.48
Israel Asia Occidentalis 30.00 ILS 6.83
Turkey Asia Occidentalis 3330000.00 TRL 2.44
Korea, South Asia Orientalis 7700.00 KPW 6.51
Philippines Asia Orientalis 85.00 PHP 1.54
Japan Asia Orientalis 1020.00 JPY 9.62
Singapore Asia Orientalis 14.00 SGD 8.28
Malaysia Asia Orientalis 11.00 MYR 2.89
Australia Australia 12.00 AUD 9.30
Brazil Brasilia 7.00 BRL 2.46
United Kingdom Britannia 5.00 GBP 9.09
United States California 12.00 USD 12.00
Canada Canada Occidentalis 13.00 CAD 10.16
Canada Canada Orientalis 13.00 CAD 10.16
Belgium Gallia 8.00 EUR 10.26
France Gallia 7.00 EUR 8.97
Netherlands Gallia 7.00 EUR 8.97
Switzerland Germania 13.00 CHF 10.57
Austria Germania 7.00 EUR 8.97
Germany Germania 7.00 EUR 8.97
Ireland Hibernia 8.00 EUR 10.26
Portugal Hispania 5.00 EUR 6.41
Spain Hispania 6.00 EUR 7.69
Italy Italia 7.00 EUR 8.97
United States Lacus Magni 12.00 USD 12.00
United States Mediatlantica 12.00 USD 12.00
Mexico Mexico 32.00 MXN 2.95
United States Nova Britannia 12.00 USD 12.00
Czech Republic Pannonia 130.00 CZK 5.13
Hungary Pannonia 930.00 HUF 4.44
Slovakia Pannonia 132.00 SKK 4.13
Ukraine Sarmatia 8.00 UAH 1.50
Russia Sarmatia 94.00 RUR 3.23
Sweden Thule 62.00 SEK 8.68
Denmark Thule 56.00 DKK 9.59
Finland Thule 7.00 EUR 8.97
Iceland Thule 700.00 ISK 10.04
Norway Thule 75.00 NOK 11.06
Poland Venedia 12.00 PLN 3.27

Albania 155.00 ALL 1.47
Andorra 5.00 EUR 6.41
Armenia 645.00 AMD 1.20
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.00 BAM 0.55
Bulgaria 3.00 BGN 1.96
Chile 1900.00 CLP 3.37
China 13.00 CNY 1.57
Colombia 5600.00 COP 2.04
Costa Rica 1160.00 CRC 2.77
Croatia 20.00 HRK 3.32
Greece 5.00 EUR 6.41
Honduras 15.00 HNL 0.84
Macedonia 83.00 MKD 1.70
Morocco 11.00 MAD 1.27
New Zealand 10.00 NZD 6.80
Nicaragua 11.00 NIO 0.71
Nigeria 41.00 NGN 0.30
Romania 82100.00 ROL 2.53
South Africa 22.00 ZAR 3.34
Uruguay 76.00 UYU 2.63
Venezuela 2900.00 VEB 1.82
Vietnam 12000.00 VND 0.77


II. Pridie Kalendas Maias dies ultima in qua vectigalia sine poena
pendantur constituta est. Licet vectigalia pendere post illam diem,
sed poena dimidia parte (quinquaginta [L] percento) debebitur. Exempli
gratia, necesse est ut civis qui ante diem ultimam thaleros duodecim
($XII) debeat, postquam thaleros duodeviginti ($XVIII) pendat.

2. The deadline for remittance of taxes is the last day of April.
Taxes may be remitted after that date, with a penalty of an extra 50%.
For example, a citizen who owes $12 would need to pay $18 after the
deadline.

III. Vnicuique qui/quae provinciae gubernator est exemplar huius
edicti ad provinciae indices (ubi exstant) transmittendum est.
Vnicuique traductori Novae Romae publico hunc edictum in linguam/linguas
quarum rationem reddere debet vertendum. Edicti huius appendix
consilium civibus continet, et cum edicto semetipso transmitti/verti debeat.

3. Each provincial governor is required to copy this edict to their
provincial lists (where applicable). Each of Nova Roma's official
Interpreters is required to translate this edict into the language(s)
for which they are responsible. The appendix to this edictum contains
advice to citizens and should be forwarded/translated with the main
document.

Hoc edictum statim valet.

This edictum is effective immediately.

Datum sub manu mea Kalendis Februariis, MMDCCVII A.V.C.
Gnaeo Salice Asturi et Gnaeo Equitio Marino consulibus

Given under my hand, this First day of February, 2757 ab urbe condita
in the consulship of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

APPENDIX - Advice to Citizens

Taxes can be paid in a variety of ways.

Citizens remitting their taxes in US dollars may send a check, money
order, or equivalent form of payment made out to Nova Roma directly to:

Nova Roma
PO Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090

Other citizens will need to purchase an international money order in US
dollars for the full amount of their taxes and send it to the address
above. Note that individual checks in local currencies sent directly to
the Nova Roma address will likely cost more to cash than they are worth.

Some provincial governors have chosen to arrange a central point in
their provinciae to which citizens may remit their taxes so that the
province will only need to make a single payment to the central
treasury. Citizens are encouraged to contact their provincial governor,
if any, to find out whether their province will be doing this.

Citizens in Europe whose provincial governor has chosen not to act as a
collection point may contact Quaestor Caius Curius Saturninus
(mikko.sillanpaa@...), in order to arrange payment if they wish.

All citizens capable of doing so may pay their taxes through the PayPal
service. There is a link on the Nova Roma Web site's main page for
this. It is the purple image alternately displaying "DONO DARE" and
"give to Nova Roma via PayPal" located beneath the main menu.

All citizens should be sure to include the full Roman names of all
citizens for whom they are paying with their remittance! PayPal provides
a comments field when you use it, and you can provide the name(s) there.
This will ensure that each civis who pays taxes will be properly
enrolled in the Assidui.

Questions may be addressed to myself (gawne@...) or my
quaestor, Livia Cornelia Hibernia (livia_cornelia_hibernia@...).
If you post your question to the main list, please Cc my address to
ensure that I see the message.

APPENDIX LATINE - CONSILIVM CIVIBVS

Vectigalia modis diversis pendi possunt.

Cives vectigalia sua thaleris Americanis denominata vel perscriptionem,
vel iussum pecuniarium, vel solutionis formam aequalem, scriptam Novae
Romae recta mittant apud:

Nova Roma
P.O. Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090

Necesse erit ut alii cives iussum omnium gentium pecuniarium denominatum
thaleris Vnitorum Statuum Americae vectigalium tota summa emant et ad
locum supra scriptum mittant. Animadvertatis perscriptiones privatas
denominatas pecuniis regionalibus ad Novae Romae locum recta missas
probabiliter plus quam valeant pecunia numerata solvi constaturas esse.

Aliqui e numero gubernatorum provincialium partem mediam provinciarum
suarum quo cives vectigalia pendant statuere delegerunt ut provinciae
suae solutionem solam aerario centrali pendere debeant. Vt comperiant
si provincia sua hoc modo utatur, cives qui gubernatorem provincialem
habent ei aut epistulas scribere aut apparatu telephonico eum/eam vocare
hortati sunt.

Licet civibus in Europa habitantibus quorum gubernatores nec locum
medium deligere nec vectigalia se exigere volunt epistulas Quaestori
Caio Saturnino scribere (mikko.silanpaa@...) ut volentes
vectigalium solutionem constituant.

Licet civibus omnibus qui ita possint vectigalia sua via officio
"Solutioni Amico" pendere. Est ad hanc finem vinculum in pagina araneae
Novae Romae prima, imago purpurea sita sub indice principali quae
invicem verba "DONO DARE" et "date Novae Romae via 'Solutioni Amico'
(sed posteriora anglice reddita sunt) ostentat.

Omnes cives se certiores faciant ut nomina Romana plena civium omnium
quibus se vectigalia pendant cum solutione ascribantur! "Solutioni
Amicus" locum commentarium utentibus praebet ubi nomina ascribere
poteritis. Hoc facto, certum erit ut civis quisque vectigalia pendens
recte inter assiduos ascribatur.

Licet quaestiones ad me ipsum (gawne@...) vel ad quaestricem
meam, Liviam Corneliam Hiberniam (livia_cornelia_hibernia@...)
mittere. Si quaestiones vestras ad indicem principalem mittatis, vos
rogo ut exemplar ad inscriptionem meam inscribatis ad me certiorem
epistulas vestras a me legendas faciendum.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus; salvete, omnes -

> Could you perhaps describe the selective permission mechanism that
> you're seeing? I must confess to being completely at a loss to see it.
> If someone here has broken the law, I can't think of anything that would
> prohibit anyone from preferring charges no matter what the violator's
> political affiliation may be.

Let's see hmmmm....

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17654 where Flavia
Tullia basically says, "Don't vote for Diana, she dresses and acts
like a wanton slut?" Don't see a Nota for that one do you?

Let's go back a little further in NR history shall we?

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/1999-03-03-i.html

Here Sulla hacked into the Senate ect. An act, in my opinion, far
more worthy of a Nota than all of Senator Drusus' track record. All
Sulla received was the equivilant of Captain Kangaroo lecturing Mr.
Bunny Rabbit to leave those carrots alone.

Heck, I've said some nasty things on here in the heat of verbal battle
and so have you. Po has written some nasty comments on here, Diana
has revealed contents of personal email on here. Where are our Notas
or at the very least reprimands?

The real questions I have given Nr's history is, "Why Drusus and why
now?" Near as I can tell Drusus makes an easy target as his bombastic
rhetorical style of using hydrogen bombs to swat a fly has rankled
everyone at some point. As for the "why now?" question all I can
figure is that given NR's history, the timing has more to do with the
perfect target presenting itself. All things considered the issuance
of a Nota against Drusus is like using a hydrogen bomb against a fly.

My fear is the precident that this sets. Soon NR will be as bland as
cold oatmeal at best and at worse a Jerry Springeresque legal circus
where we spend all our time bringing each other up on charges and what
little free time we have will between filing petitions is spent in
NR's courts either defending ourselves, prosecuting someone else, or
sitting in a jury.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salvete Quirites,

> Columbia, STS-107
> 08:59 EST
> February 1, 2003

"Buildings shook in Texas. Columbia was coming home."

(quoted from a fine article written after the sad events of a year ago)

-- Marinus

Salvete omnes,

It looks like my server may be having problems this weekend. I have
not been able to access my email since midnight so please direct your
mail to miguelkelly15@... for the next few days.

Also, on the NR main page the adressess for "questions for the
priests, senate etc. do not work. You get a postmaster's
undeliverable notice when mailing to these addresses. Will this be
corrected soon for the sake of our new citizens?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salvete Tribunes,

Since I do believe that a veto of the nota against L Sicinius Drusus was publicly asked for and as
far as I am aware the deadline to do so is long past, when will you be posting a statement of why
you did not veto? Although there is no law that I know of that states that you must do this, this
is usually what has been done in the past.

Valete,
Diana Octavia Aventina

Salvete Quirites,

Earlier, I quoted:

> "Buildings shook in Texas. Columbia was coming home."

Then, inspired by the memory, I went and found the whole article.
It's kind of long, and will take you a while to read, but I think
anyone who prizes the Virtues will find reading it worth their while.

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000033.html

The title is, quite aptly, "Courage."

-- Gn. Equitius Marinus

Salve Gnaeus Equitius

Wow! That's a tear-jerker.
Gratias tibi ago.

It's one of those ironies of history, a reminder from the Fates, that
the three worst disasters to hit the US space program are all
clustered around the same time of the year: Apollo 1, Challenger and
Columbia, all within a week on the calendar.

While we may "slip the surly bonds of earth ... and touch the face of
God", we are not gods. We make mistakes. We become complacent,
arrogant in our successes and border on hubris in the certainty of
our own greatness. As an engineer, I have seen that kind of behaviour
all too often. We forget our own maxim that "if something _can_ go
wrong it _will_ go wrong". Seventeen astronauts and I don't know how
many cosmonauts have paid the price for that.

I try very hard to remember it with each line of code that I write. I
try to remember that somewhere a paramedic, firefighter or cop is
depending upon my work to get them through their shift and home to
their family in one piece. That a patient, property owner or crime
victim is depending upon my work to bring help to them on time. I
pray that I will never fall victim to my own pride and believe that I
_can't_ be wrong. I can. We all can. We are mortal.

Apollo 1, Challenger, Columbia; May they rest in peace.
All fallen firefighters and peace officers; may they rest in peace.

Optime Vale in pace deorum
Livia Cornelia Hibernia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Equitius Marinus"
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Earlier, I quoted:
> > "Buildings shook in Texas. Columbia was coming home."
>
> Then, inspired by the memory, I went and found the whole article.
> It's kind of long, and will take you a while to read, but I think
> anyone who prizes the Virtues will find reading it worth their

while.

>
> http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000033.html
>
> The title is, quite aptly, "Courage."
>
> -- Gn. Equitius Marinus

Though our astronauts come from civilian life and the Air Force, as
well as the Navy, it is not too far a stretch to see space as the
great Deep. In honor of those who have passed through and now reside
in that Deep:

"Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidst the mighty ocean deep,
Its own appointed limits keep:
O hear us when we cry to Thee
For those in peril on the sea"
The Navy Hymn

A nice .mp3 can be found at http://www.usna.edu/USNABand/

"A bloody cursed week to fly."
-- Miles Graff

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <drusus@...> wrote:

> This week also marks the third disaster that befel the United
> States space program.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

P. Galerius Cicero S.P.D.

Salve my friends,

As my subject line notes I have a couple of questions in reguards to
the Lupercalia. Number one I am curious if anyone in NR celebrates
this day as it is recorded in histroy that it was observed ie Livius
as well as Plutarch in his lives of I. Caesar, if I remember
correctly, concerning M. Antonius. My next question is for our
scholars. As most know I am a Christian by my religion, not
Catholic, and for religious reasons I do not celebrate the holiday
of Valentines Day but I have heard by many that this holiday, so to
speak, of the Catholic church originates from the Lupercalia; can
anyone cleay up this question for me? Gratius.
Valete,
P. Galerius Cicero

P. Galerius Cicero Consuli Gn. Equiti Marini S.P.D.

Salve honorable Consul of NR,

Many thanks for the wonderful article. George Santayana once said
that "those who do not remember history will be condemned to repeat
it" and all throughout history we have these little reminders that
we are all still to human and very fragile. It's a shame that
tragedies are what it takes to remind us of this and that it takes
Titanic size losses to show us how sinkable we really are. Gratias.
Columbia Astronauts In Pace Requiescat.

Valete,
P. Galerius Cicero

The Censors, having reached agreement with Senator Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
with the aid of Tribune G. Modius Athanasius and Pontifex G. Iulius Scaurus,
do hereby WITHDRAW and RESCIND the edict of 26 January 2004, thus
repudiating and cancelling the Nota. L. Sicinius Drusus will remain
a Senator, and the record shall show continuous uninterrupted holding
of Senatorial rank ever since his appointment over one year ago. The
edict of Nota shall be stricken from the Tabularium.

Signed,
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor.
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Censor.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
http://www.graveyards.com/
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess;
moderation is for monks. - Heinlein

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:22:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
doris-butler@... writes:

> Forum where a man in high office may presume to address a citizen
> with such ad hominem barnyard coprolalia, and not be called to
> account for it. The comment refered directly to the man himself,
> not to his ideas. It was not "Your opinion is (worthless)". And it
> was not even an insult which could extrapolate into the realm of
> ideology, such as "You are ignorant" or "you are vainglorious". It
> was, in fact, as crude a barnyard ad hominem attack upon the
> recipient's character as could be crafted.
>

Sigh...I was expressing disdain for the citizen's incredulous statement about
the population
number in favor of the absurd act of our Censors. Romans were very colorful
in their speech
in the Forum. Sorry if I offended you. I'm glad you were not here four
years ago. Things were a lot more, ummm shall we say, blunt and to the point.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

I Will be taking a sabbatical from my duties as a Senator. For the
comming Months I will not be taking part in Senate Debates nor Voting.
The Censors have agreed to this arangement.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator et Pontifex

Do escritório do Cônsul Gnaues Equitius Marinus

ÉDITO CONSULAR DE GNAEUS EQUITIUS MARINUS NÚMERO II: ÉDITO DOS IMPOSTOS
VERSÃO EM LÍNGUA PORTUGUESA
Tradução por Titus Arminius Genialis


Em decorrência do Senatus consultum aprovado em novembro de 2755 auc,
<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2002-11-09-results.html>
eu estabeleço por meio desde édito os valores dos impostos para 2757.

1. Os valores dos impostos para 2757 estão fixados nos valores da seguinte
tabela. Países que constituiem províncias estão listados primeiro, seguidos
pelos países sem províncias. Sempre em ordem alfabética por províncias.


TABELA DOS VALORES DOS IMPOSTOS DE 2757 a.u.c.

Valor na moeda Valor em
País Província local dólares EUA
==========================================================================
Estados Unidos America Austroccidentalis 12.00 USD 12.00
Estados Unidos America Austrorientalis 12.00 USD 12.00
Estados Unidos America Boreoccidentalis 12.00 USD 12.00
Estados Unidos America Medioccidentalis Sup. 12.00 USD 12.00
Argentina Argentina 10.00 ARS 3.48
Israel Asia Occidentalis 30.00 ILS 6.83
Turquia Asia Occidentalis 3330000.00 TRL 2.44
Coréia do Sul Asia Orientalis 7700.00 KPW 6.51
Filipinas Asia Orientalis 85.00 PHP 1.54
Japão Asia Orientalis 1020.00 JPY 9.62
Singapura Asia Orientalis 14.00 SGD 8.28
Malásia Asia Orientalis 11.00 MYR 2.89
Austrália Australia 12.00 AUD 9.30
Brasil Brasilia 7.00 BRL 2.46
Reino Unido Britannia 5.00 GBP 9.09
Estados Unidos California 12.00 USD 12.00
Canadá Canada Occidentalis 13.00 CAD 10.16
Canadá Canada Orientalis 13.00 CAD 10.16
Bélgica Gallia 8.00 EUR 10.26
França Gallia 7.00 EUR 8.97
Holanda Gallia 7.00 EUR 8.97
Suíça Germania 13.00 CHF 10.57
Áustria Germania 7.00 EUR 8.97
Alemanha Germania 7.00 EUR 8.97
Irlanda Hibernia 8.00 EUR 10.26
Portugal Hispania 5.00 EUR 6.41
Espanha Hispania 6.00 EUR 7.69
Itália Italia 7.00 EUR 8.97
Estados Unidos Lacus Magni 12.00 USD 12.00
Estados Unidos Mediatlantica 12.00 USD 12.00
México Mexico 32.00 MXN 2.95
Estados Unidos Nova Britannia 12.00 USD 12.00
República TchecaPannonia 130.00 CZK 5.13
Hungria Pannonia 930.00 HUF 4.44
Eslováquia Pannonia 132.00 SKK 4.13
Ucrânia Sarmatia 8.00 UAH 1.50
Rússia Sarmatia 94.00 RUR 3.23
Suécia Thule 62.00 SEK 8.68
Dinamarca Thule 56.00 DKK 9.59
Finlândia Thule 7.00 EUR 8.97
Islândia Thule 700.00 ISK 10.04
Noruega Thule 75.00 NOK 11.06
Polônia Venedia 12.00 PLN 3.27
Albânia 155.00 ALL 1.47
Andorra 5.00 EUR 6.41
Armênia 645.00 AMD 1.20
Bósnia-Herzegovina 1.00 BAM 0.55
Bulgária 3.00 BGN 1.96
Chile 1900.00 CLP 3.37
China 13.00 CNY 1.57
Colômbia 5600.00 COP 2.04
Costa Rica 1160.00 CRC 2.77
Croácia 20.00 HRK 3.32
Grécia 5.00 EUR 6.41
Honduras 15.00 HNL 0.84
Macedônia 83.00 MKD 1.70
Marrocos 11.00 MAD 1.27
Nova Zelândia 10.00 NZD 6.80
Nicáragua 11.00 NIO 0.71
Nigéria 41.00 NGN 0.30
Romênia 82100.00 ROL 2.53
África do Sul 22.00 ZAR 3.34
Uruguai 76.00 UYU 2.63
Venezuela 2900.00 VEB 1.82
Vietnã 12000.00 VND 0.77


2. O último dia para o envio do dinheiro é o último dia de abril. Depois
dessa data, será cobrada multa de 50%. Por exemplo, um cidadão que deveria
pagar $12 pagaria $18 após 30 de abril.

3. Cada governador provincial deverá eviar uma cópia deste édito à sua lista
local (quando houver uma). Cada intérprete de Nova Roma deverá traduzir este
édito para suas línguas correspondentes. O apêndice deste édito contém
conselhos aos cidadãos e deverá ser encaminhado/traduzido junto com o texto
principal.

Este édito tem valor imediatamente.

Dado por minhas mãos, no primeiro dia de fevereiro de 2757 ab urbe condita,
no consulado de Gnaeus Salix Astur e Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.


APÊNDICE - Conselhos aos cidadãos

Os impostos podem ser pagos em diversas maneiras.

Cidadãos que forem pagar em dólares americanos podem enviar cheque, dinheiro
ou forma equivalente de pagamento em nome de Nova Roma diretamente para:

Nova Roma
PO Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090 USA

Outros cidadãos precisarão adquirir ordem de pagagento internacional em
dólares americanos (como os "cheques-correios" por exemplo) no valor total
dos seus impostos e enviá-la para o endereço indicado acima. Observe que
cheques expressos em moedas locais enviadas diretamente para Nova Roma
provavelmente custarão mais para serem trocadas por dólares quando chegarem
do que seu próprio valor nominal.

Alguns governadores provinciais elegeram um local de arrecadação em suas
províncias, que receberão o dinheiro e enviarão tudo junto ao tesouro
central. Os cidadãos devem contatar seus governadores para saber se sua
província está fazendo algo parecido.

Cidadãos da Europa cujo governador provincial não organizou um local de
arrecadação podem contatar o Quaestor Caius Curius Saturninus
<mikko.sillanpaa@...> para efetuar o pagamento, se desejarem.

Quem puder pode fazer o pagamento através do serviço PayPal. Há um link no
site principal de Nova Roma para isso. É um ícone roxo piscando
alternadamente "DONO DARE" e "give to Nova Roma via PayPal" localizado logo
após o menu principal.

Todos os cidadãos devem prestar atenção para não esquecer de incluir seus
nomes romanos completos quando efetuarem o pagamento! Na página de pagamento
do PayPal, há um campo de comentários, e você deve escrever seu nome lá.
Caso você esteja fazendo o pagamento por vários cidadãos, inclua os nomes de
cada um neste campo. Assim, teremos a certeza de quem pagou, para que possa
ser classificado como Assidui.

Dúvidas podem ser enviadas a mim mesmo (gawne@...) ou meu quaestor,
Livia Cornelia Hibernia (livia_cornelia_hibernia@...).

Se você publicar sua dúvida na lista principal, por favor envie uma cópia
(Cc) para mim, para ter certeza de que eu vou receber a sua mensagem.


-- FIM --

Observações: O serviço PayPal está disponível apenas em língua inglesa.
Mensagens enviadas para os e-mails citados no texto devem ser escritas em
inglês. Se necessário esclarecer dúvidas sobre os impostos com mensagens em
português, contate-me <tagenialis@...> e eu encaminharei a sua
mensagem traduzida para as pessoas correspondentes.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/1/2004

Salvete Censores,

Thank you to all who were involved in this decision.

I truly hope that no grudges will be held on either side of this issue and that we can all go
forward together as citizens of our Republic.


Valete,
Diana Octavia

Salve Senator Lucius Sicinius Drusus,

<I Will be taking a sabbatical from my duties as a Senator.

May the Gods keep you happy & healthy during your sabbatical. We'll be here when you get back.

Vale,
Diana Octavia

Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus -

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 05:06:09PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
> > Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus; salvete, omnes -
>
> > Could you perhaps describe the selective permission mechanism that
> > you're seeing? I must confess to being completely at a loss to see it.
> > If someone here has broken the law, I can't think of anything that would
> > prohibit anyone from preferring charges no matter what the violator's
> > political affiliation may be.
>
> Let's see hmmmm....
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/17654 where Flavia
> Tullia basically says, "Don't vote for Diana, she dresses and acts
> like a wanton slut?" Don't see a Nota for that one do you?

Pardon me - I don't mean to sound rude, but... could you please reread
what I wrote? I said that nothing _prohibits_ your or anyone else's
application to the legal system. What you're saying is, "in the above
case, no one invoked the system." It sounds like we're talking past
each other, without an actual point of contention. Please let me know if
you see one.

> Let's go back a little further in NR history shall we?
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/1999-03-03-i.html
>
> Here Sulla hacked into the Senate ect. An act, in my opinion, far
> more worthy of a Nota than all of Senator Drusus' track record. All
> Sulla received was the equivilant of Captain Kangaroo lecturing Mr.
> Bunny Rabbit to leave those carrots alone.

[shrug] I wasn't here for it, and am unwilling to judge from a single
piece of evidence, nor do I see any relevance to the cives' _freedom_ to
file a suit with the Praetors, etc.

> Heck, I've said some nasty things on here in the heat of verbal battle
> and so have you. Po has written some nasty comments on here, Diana
> has revealed contents of personal email on here. Where are our Notas
> or at the very least reprimands?

Did any one of the people you've cited bypass the NR legal system and
invoke an outside authority that could do damage to Nova Roma? The Nota
against Drusus is not simply for "nasty comments". Not by a long shot.

> The real questions I have given Nr's history is, "Why Drusus and why
> now?"

Let's try this example: New York gets a new mayor. After coming into
office, he looks around and decides that the law regarding annual dog
tags is either being completely ignored by the New York's pet owners, or
only obeyed in a few cases, so he puts his people on it and starts
issuing citations. Is "why now?" a reasonable question to ask? In short,
does lack of enforcement somehow make violation into reasonable
behavior?

Drusus behavior was an egregious case of not only violating Nova Roman
law but of going outside it, - invoking the 900-lb. gorilla, if you
will, which could wreak havoc in Nova Roma because the concerns of Nova
Roma are foreign to it. If that was enough to cause the Censors to
censure him for it, I see nothing wrong with that; in fact, I can only
approve.

> Near as I can tell Drusus makes an easy target as his bombastic
> rhetorical style of using hydrogen bombs to swat a fly has rankled
> everyone at some point.

That's not the issue here, but - Drusus is welcome to modify his style
or practice it somewhere else. I, for one, do not see him as
indispensable; in fact, given his expressed *and* acted-out contempt for
Nova Roma and her justice system, I see quite the opposite.

I dislike Drusus intensely - many here do - but that in itself is not
relevant to how I feel about this Nota, although I'm sure that his
suppporters will clamor otherwise. Endangering Nova Roma by involving an
outside agent goes completely against his senator's oath; publishing
private email is universally-deprecated behavior on the Internet -

(From Rick Moen's "Bureau of the Netiquette-challenged",
<http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=netiquette>:)

* (You posted my private mail to you, sent to you in confidence, to
third parties and/or a public forum.)

Absent extraordinary justification (which you currently lack),
this is an extremely scummy thing to do. Some boneheads who do
this justify it by saying they wanted to "open the discussion for
broader input". If, to accomplish this, you send my private
comments to parties I never intended, then you have given
considerable offence, and your pleas of haplessness and good
intentions (see above) will not avail you.

- and Drusus has violated that as well as Nova Roman law.

Tell me... what *would* you consider sufficient provocation for a Nota
if all of the above does not suffice?

> My fear is the precident that this sets. Soon NR will be as bland as
> cold oatmeal at best and at worse a Jerry Springeresque legal circus
> where we spend all our time bringing each other up on charges and what
> little free time we have will between filing petitions is spent in
> NR's courts either defending ourselves, prosecuting someone else, or
> sitting in a jury.

I feel certain that any magistrate responsible for creating the sort of
environment you're describing would find himself out of office in short
order, possibly as a result of one of those petitions. Please let me
know if you see this happening rather than conjecturing that it _may_
happen; I will happily cooperate with you toward that end.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit.
No fort is so strong that it cannot be taken with money.
-- Cicero, "In Verrem"

Salve Silanus,

sorry, I can't see the Britannia's newsletter because I'm not member
of the Britannic mailing list. I would liek to read it, can you send
me privately at fraelov @ yahoo.it?

Thank you very much.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Salve Diana Octavia Aventina,
sorry if I don't give you a more detailed and explaining answer, but
I'm affected by influenza and to think not is very hard ;-)
BTW I think some messages sended after this your explains why we
Tribunes didn't vetoed the Censorial Nota.

IMHO: I think the intercessio is not a good action and ever there
are other different solutions for just one problem :-D

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Tribune


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<sacerdosveneris@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Tribunes,
>
> Since I do believe that a veto of the nota against L Sicinius

Drusus was publicly asked for and as

> far as I am aware the deadline to do so is long past, when will

you be posting a statement of why

> you did not veto? Although there is no law that I know of that

states that you must do this, this

> is usually what has been done in the past.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Octavia Aventina

Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus -

> Pardon me - I don't mean to sound rude, but... could you please reread
> what I wrote? I said that nothing _prohibits_ your or anyone else's
> application to the legal system. What you're saying is, "in the above
> case, no one invoked the system." It sounds like we're talking past
> each other, without an actual point of contention. Please let me know if
> you see one.

I don't see a bone of contention between us. Nothing prohibits the
Censors or Praetors from acting absent a petition either when they see
an act or several acts that requires their intervention. Your
scenario where a person must file a petition before they can act is
like telling police officers they can't act when a crime is being
comitted in their very presence unless someone files a complaint. Do
you now see what I am saying.

<snipped>

> Drusus behavior was an egregious case of not only violating Nova Roman
> law but of going outside it, - invoking the 900-lb. gorilla, if you
> will, which could wreak havoc in Nova Roma because the concerns of Nova
> Roma are foreign to it. If that was enough to cause the Censors to
> censure him for it, I see nothing wrong with that; in fact, I can only
> approve.

I hardly think going to Yahoo! as a 900lb gorilla about to tear Nova
Roma into shreds. It is Yahoo's best interest to do nothing about one
single solitary complaint when compared to the level of traffic Nova
Roma gives them to show off their various advertisements.

> > Near as I can tell Drusus makes an easy target as his bombastic
> > rhetorical style of using hydrogen bombs to swat a fly has rankled
> > everyone at some point.
>
> That's not the issue here, but - Drusus is welcome to modify his style
> or practice it somewhere else. I, for one, do not see him as
> indispensable; in fact, given his expressed *and* acted-out contempt for
> Nova Roma and her justice system, I see quite the opposite.
>
> I dislike Drusus intensely - many here do - but that in itself is not
> relevant to how I feel about this Nota, although I'm sure that his
> suppporters will clamor otherwise. Endangering Nova Roma by involving an
> outside agent goes completely against his senator's oath; publishing
> private email is universally-deprecated behavior on the Internet -

> Tell me... what *would* you consider sufficient provocation for a Nota
> if all of the above does not suffice?

I consider sufficient provocation for a Nota to be along the lines of
hacking into NR's server and messing with the NR website. Also
slander and libel come readily to mind. Adultry could also be a
reason for a Nota as that falls within the realm of morals. So would
conviction of child-molestation, spousal abuse, other forms of child
abuse. Being rude, insulting, and generally bombastic on the ML being
placed on moderation is definitely in order but hardly rising to the
level of a Nota.

> I feel certain that any magistrate responsible for creating the sort of
> environment you're describing would find himself out of office in short
> order, possibly as a result of one of those petitions. Please let me
> know if you see this happening rather than conjecturing that it _may_
> happen; I will happily cooperate with you toward that end.

I would hope that would be the case that any magistrate who created
such an atmosphere would be removed from office or at least suddenly
find himself unelectable. However it does not require a magistrate to
create such an atmosphere. All it takes is us to start pestering the
Praetors everytime someone says something not to our liking to create
just such an atmosphere.

Do I see this happening? I see the groundwork for it happening today
with your talk of filing against Fabius Maximus for his scatalogical
comments. If you go back through the files since the Lex Salicia
Poenalis has been enacted a number of times people have more or less
implied that they might take action against someone else under on
provision of that Lex or another, but they won't because they want to
be nice.

All it takes is a little blood in the water and the sharks go nuts.
If you and I agree on nothing else, I think we both agree there is
enough bad blood and simmering personal feuds to start a feeding
frenzy to rival my family at an all you can eat buffet.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Cavlus

Salvete Omnes,

> I read something about a scholarship fund being discussed on the
> forum a long time ago. I was wondering what happened to the idea...
> did it become a reality, and how does one go about applying for
> the scholarship? I understand it was intended for students majoring
> in the Classics?

I don't think there's enough money yet in the fund to give it out at this point, though I could be wrong. At least I can see that this is the first I've seen about it in a while. But I do have the same questions as you. Hopefully one of the quaestors could answer this for us.

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Civis Privatus

C. Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete,

I am thrilled to announce that the Nova Britannia Patriots have won
Super Bowl XXXVIIII by a field goal..... again!!!

In accordance to my vow, I will make an offering of incense and wine to
Victoria tommorrow for granting this victory.

Go Pats!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Propraetor Nova Britannia

Ave Minucius Hadrianus

Congratulations to all Citizens in Nova Britannia on the victory of
the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXVIII !

Although I now reside in Provincia California (San Diego), I was born
and raised in Nova Britannia (Lowell, MA), long enough ago to
remember when the "Boston" Patriots were founded and played their
games in Harvard Stadium!

This was one of the best Super Bowls ever!
What a specticle! So very Roman in so many ways.

Optime Vale
Livia Cornelia Hibernia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
<c.minucius.hadrianus@n...> wrote:

> C. Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am thrilled to announce that the Nova Britannia Patriots have won
> Super Bowl XXXVIIII by a field goal..... again!!!
>
> In accordance to my vow, I will make an offering of incense and

wine to

> Victoria tommorrow for granting this victory.
>
> Go Pats!
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Propraetor Nova Britannia

L. CORNELIA HIBERNIA QUIRITIBUS S.P.D.

I wish to thank all involved for the peaceful resolution of this
situation. I believe that the piaculum to Concordia and all of
Pontifex G. Iulius Scaurus was particularly instrumental in bringing
about the changes of heart needed to resolve this situation. Once
again, we see the positive results of honoring the Gods and Goddesses
and maintaining the Pax Deorum.

Valete
Livia Cornelia Hibernia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:

>
> The Censors, having reached agreement with Senator Lucius Sicinius

Drusus,

> with the aid of Tribune G. Modius Athanasius and Pontifex G. Iulius

Scaurus,

> do hereby WITHDRAW and RESCIND the edict of 26 January 2004, thus
> repudiating and cancelling the Nota. L. Sicinius Drusus will remain
> a Senator, and the record shall show continuous uninterrupted

holding

> of Senatorial rank ever since his appointment over one year ago.

The

> edict of Nota shall be stricken from the Tabularium.
>
> Signed,
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor.
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Censor.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> http://www.graveyards.com/
> Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess;
> moderation is for monks. - Heinlein

Salve Marce Octavi, Salve C. Fabi, salvete omnes,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<hucke@c...> wrote:

>
> The Censors, having reached agreement with Senator Lucius Sicinius
>Drusus, with the aid of Tribune G. Modius Athanasius and Pontifex G.
>Iulius Scaurus, do hereby WITHDRAW and RESCIND the edict of 26
>January 2004, thus repudiating and cancelling the Nota. L. Sicinius
>Drusus will remain a Senator, and the record shall show continuous
>uninterrupted holding
> of Senatorial rank ever since his appointment over one year ago.
>The edict of Nota shall be stricken from the Tabularium.

Imagine my delight to turn my computer on after two days and the
first thing I see on the site is this message. Thank you gentlemen,
thank you to all involved for a just action and agreement.

Valete,

Palladius

Salve, Quintus Cassius Calvus -

On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 01:51:25AM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
>
> > It sounds like we're talking past
> > each other, without an actual point of contention. Please let me know if
> > you see one.
>
> I don't see a bone of contention between us. Nothing prohibits the
> Censors or Praetors from acting absent a petition either when they see
> an act or several acts that requires their intervention.

It's been my experience on the ML that this is not at all the case.
There have been at least two incidents in which I remember the Praetors
telling the person who was complaining about another's behavior here to
file a formal complaint with them. I must say that I found it surprising
the first time it happened.

> Your
> scenario where a person must file a petition before they can act is
> like telling police officers they can't act when a crime is being
> comitted in their very presence unless someone files a complaint. Do
> you now see what I am saying.

I do; thank you for clarifying. However, you'd mentioned "selective
enforcement... while allowing others to get a free ride", and that's
what I was responding to; it seemed like you were asking for the law to
be enforced to the maximum and without any flexibility in every single
instance OR not to be enforced at all, a binary state with no gray areas
in between. I'm afraid that I can't imagine a society in which either
one is possible; certainly Nova Roma cannot be expected to fit that
picture. The application of law has to begin _somewhere,_ and the first
violator to be punished is not being discriminated against, despite the
seeming appearance of it.

> > Drusus behavior was an egregious case of not only violating Nova Roman
> > law but of going outside it, - invoking the 900-lb. gorilla, if you
> > will, which could wreak havoc in Nova Roma because the concerns of Nova
> > Roma are foreign to it. If that was enough to cause the Censors to
> > censure him for it, I see nothing wrong with that; in fact, I can only
> > approve.
>
> I hardly think going to Yahoo! as a 900lb gorilla about to tear Nova
> Roma into shreds.

The key word is, of course, "could". Involving Yahoo's complaint
department in something for which we have existing legal mechanisms
shows only contempt for Nova Roma; furthermore, since NR has no power to
affect the workings of that agency _and_ their decisions are arbitrary,
final, and unconnected with the concerns of Nova Roma, damage to NR is
*inevitable* in a certain percentage of the cases (just as enough
bullets fired in random directions absolutely *will* hit a given
target.) If we're unlucky, the first time may well be significant for us
in a highly unpleasant fashion - unless Drusus has already withdrawn his
request.

> It is Yahoo's best interest to do nothing about one
> single solitary complaint when compared to the level of traffic Nova
> Roma gives them to show off their various advertisements.

Having seen Yahoo in action in several instances on other lists, I would
say that logical behavior cannot be considered a reasonable expectation.
:)

> > Tell me... what *would* you consider sufficient provocation for a Nota
> > if all of the above does not suffice?
>
> I consider sufficient provocation for a Nota to be along the lines of
> hacking into NR's server and messing with the NR website.

Agreed.

> Being rude, insulting, and generally bombastic on the ML being
> placed on moderation is definitely in order but hardly rising to the
> level of a Nota.

Again, that was not the reason stated for the Nota.

> > I feel certain that any magistrate responsible for creating the sort of
> > environment you're describing would find himself out of office in short
> > order, possibly as a result of one of those petitions. Please let me
> > know if you see this happening rather than conjecturing that it _may_
> > happen; I will happily cooperate with you toward that end.
>
> I would hope that would be the case that any magistrate who created
> such an atmosphere would be removed from office or at least suddenly
> find himself unelectable. However it does not require a magistrate to
> create such an atmosphere. All it takes is us to start pestering the
> Praetors everytime someone says something not to our liking to create
> just such an atmosphere.

Much would depend on the Praetors' handling of the situation. However,
appealing to the Praetors - the office which has _required_ complaints
to be formally filed before taking action in the past - cannot
reasonably be described as "pestering".

> Do I see this happening? I see the groundwork for it happening today
> with your talk of filing against Fabius Maximus for his scatalogical
> comments. If you go back through the files since the Lex Salicia
> Poenalis has been enacted a number of times people have more or less
> implied that they might take action against someone else under on
> provision of that Lex or another, but they won't because they want to
> be nice.

Consider what you have just said in the light of your own earlier
question, please. Do you think that may have been the case with the
"selective enforcement" that you saw? This is precisely how I saw it
(primarily because it reflected my own feelings on the matter.)
As to my "filing" against QFM, it's simply a request for moderation
rather than a suit under the above Lex; the latter would be excessive.

[grin] "Moderation in all things" is perhaps the appropriate thought for
the day.

> All it takes is a little blood in the water and the sharks go nuts.
> If you and I agree on nothing else, I think we both agree there is
> enough bad blood and simmering personal feuds to start a feeding
> frenzy to rival my family at an all you can eat buffet.

[chuckle] I've never met your family, but - I hang around with a bunch
of sailors. "Free food/booze" are words to be spoken softly and
preferably from behind a stout barrier, lest you get trampled by the
thundering herd.

I do agree that personal feuds should have no place in the magistrates'
decisions, and I can understand your concern in that regard; in this
case, I did not see anything like that happening.

Frankly, I think the factor that drives a lot of the concern, one that
many people have explicitly avoided mentioning, is the unpleasant
encounter that Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Sicinius Drusus had
here several months ago. (Exacting tact is one thing that few would
accuse me of. :) In my opinion, the Censor is a man of high integrity
who would not let a personal factor of that sort influence the execution
of his duties - including not letting it deter him from doing the right
thing despite the certainty of being accused of revenge motives or at
least prejudicial treatment.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Whatever this may be, I fear the Greeks even when they're bringing gifts.
-- Vergil, "Aenis. The priest Laokoon's warning when seeing the Trojan horse."

---Salvete Livia Cornelia et Omnes:

Well said honoured Quaestor. I want to say again, in adding my voice
to yours, that I too feel we must applaud the censores for their
willingness atleast rexamine their positions on the situation.

Not always do we encounter such willingness on the part of magistrates
to entertain the thinking of its constituents. By doing this, they
demonstrate that they have good government in mind, and a genuine
willingness to satisfy public justice and morality, while helping to
construct an only budding mos maiorum in Nova Roma, which satisfies
both virtue and justice.

Indeed, these two Censores do not see themselves "just as ones in
high positions", but "ones in high positions who want to be just :)",
in keeping with the exingencies of discouraging what is
inappropriate, and to help define same, without being overly harsh.

For C. Iulius Scaurus, not often do we see one exercize his priestly
roles in this manner. As you point out Livia, I thought the priestly
decretum to announce a day of Concordia was both spiritually fruitful
for all, in the sincere intercession for justice and peace, among
other things, and gave us all a chance to cool off. I would like to
see 'religion' and 'virtue' married more often, and I think this was
an instance where they were.

Valete,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Livia Cornelia Hibernia"
<livia_cornelia_hibernia@c...> wrote:

> L. CORNELIA HIBERNIA QUIRITIBUS S.P.D.
>
> I wish to thank all involved for the peaceful resolution of this
> situation. I believe that the piaculum to Concordia and all of
> Pontifex G. Iulius Scaurus was particularly instrumental in bringing
> about the changes of heart needed to resolve this situation. Once
> again, we see the positive results of honoring the Gods and Goddesses
> and maintaining the Pax Deorum.
>
> Valete
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> <hucke@c...> wrote:
> >
> > The Censors, having reached agreement with Senator Lucius Sicinius
> Drusus,
> > with the aid of Tribune G. Modius Athanasius and Pontifex G. Iulius
> Scaurus,
> > do hereby WITHDRAW and RESCIND the edict of 26 January 2004, thus
> > repudiating and cancelling the Nota. L. Sicinius Drusus will remain
> > a Senator, and the record shall show continuous uninterrupted
> holding
> > of Senatorial rank ever since his appointment over one year ago.
> The
> > edict of Nota shall be stricken from the Tabularium.
> >
> > Signed,
> > Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Censor.
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Censor.
> >
> > --
> > Marcus Octavius Germanicus.
> > http://www.graveyards.com/
> > Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess;
> > moderation is for monks. - Heinlein

Salvete Galerius et Omnes:

I want to say, from the top of my roof, that I think, despite the fact
that you have been at odds with Senator Drusus with what appears to be
some time, you had the sense of justice within you to come forth
publicly and rally for justice for your adversary. Not that there
wasn't any ugliness involved, yes there was.

But rather than just remain silent over the whole issue, you indicated
to this forum that you, paraphrased, wanted a 'fair shake' for Drusus.
When I read your remarks I almost cried.

Although you have been in dispute, you wouldn't not want anyone
treated any differently than you would like to be treated, and that
you are an irrespector of persons when it comes to fair play.

You in my eyes, are just 'too cool'. All this hallmarks a good person,
and I shall remember you if you ever run for office, because you are
just the person who will look after each of us all by same rules, and
the same heart. My applause also to your parents who did a very good
job:)

Valete et Magna Kudos,
Pompeia

Salve C. Minuci,

Since the nota is no more, I am going to keep this short. I just want
to make a minor correction to what you said.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:

> Salve, Decius Iunius Palladius -
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 07:42:15AM -0000, deciusiunius wrote:
> >
> > Let's please keep some perspective
> > here about degrees of right and wrong.
>
> [snip]
>
> > A nota in such a case is like advocating the death penalty for
> > someone who drove 60 mph in a 50 mph zone, except unlike speeding
> > Drusus broke no law or rule so perhaps the speeding analogy is

too

> > serious.
>
> Sorry, didn't you just mention keeping some perspective? A nota is
> nothing like the death penalty - in fact, since Drusus has shown a
> complete disregard for the legal structure of Nova Roma and has
> repeatedly stated his contempt for Nova Roma, to him it is no
>penalty at all - and his actions were far more akin to, say, someone
>in America in 1775 or 1776 appealing to the British government for
>help, something that would be seen as treason. Your metaphor shares
>no resemblance to any of the pertinent facts,

You are answering the wrong point. Up above, where I admit I was a
tad hyperbolic, I was not referring to Drusus circumventing the legal
system but rather his publicly posting an email by his "enemy"
Galerius Secundus. Hardly a treasonous action. You may find that act
reprehensible, I find it a minor wrong considering the context but it
was not treason by any stretch of the imagination.

My discussion of circumventing the system came later in my email (and
you responded at length) and I made no speeding analogies in that
discussion but agreed it was the more serious part of the nota.

Just as a historical note, it would have depended who you were and in
which part of America you lived whether it was treason to appeal to
the British government. Large parts of the 13 colonies remained in
British hands and many people were still loyal to the Crown,
especially in the South. After the war, John Adams estimated that
during the Revolution, about one third of the people supported the
Revolution, one third remained loyal to the Crown and one third
didn't care one way or the other.

To those one third still loyal to the Crown, an appeal to the British
government was only natural, it was the only government they knew and
were loyal to since birth. If you ever get a chance, I recommend the
novel Oliver Wiswell (sp?) by Kenneth Roberts, written entirely from
the perspective of a young Tory. It's a very effective historical
novel and really personalizes in a sympathetic way how the Revolution
was viewed by the Loyalist one third.

Vale,

Palladius

---Alas, while I sit recovering from the flu waiting for my Gravol to
kick in, my husband informs me that, being a Patriot fan, he won
$100.00 in a football pool.

And, he didn't have to buy me drinks or food because I wasn't there!

I do confess, I go more for the halftime show. I wouldn't make a very
good quarterback I'm afraid:)

Po

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
<c.minucius.hadrianus@n...> wrote:

> C. Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am thrilled to announce that the Nova Britannia Patriots have won
> Super Bowl XXXVIIII by a field goal..... again!!!
>
> In accordance to my vow, I will make an offering of incense and wine to
> Victoria tommorrow for granting this victory.
>
> Go Pats!
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Propraetor Nova Britannia

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem IV Nonae Februarii; the day is nefastus and
sacred to Iuno Februra, the mother of Mars, and the Feria Cereris.
Roasted spelt and salt was was offered to Ceres on this day. The
rites to Iuno Februra on this day are not known, although they too,
according to Ovid, involved spelt cakes and salt. There is probably
some etymological connection between the appellation Februra and the
februa, instruments used for propitiation to ward off divine anger,
like the goat-skin strips of the Lupercalia later in the month.

Tomorrow is ante diem III Nonae Februarii; the day is nefastus.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Roman Artifacts from the David M. Robinson Collection":

http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/classics/roman.html

This site provides a sampling of the extensive collection of Roman
antiquities in the David M. Robinson Collection of the University
Museums of the Univ. of Mississippi.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I notice there have been many comments in the Forum
recently to the effect that the list guidelines have
not always been even-handedly enforced, and others
pointing out that the praetors are not obliged to
enforce those guidelines unless formally requested to
do so.

In fact, as far as I'm aware, the praetors are under
no legal obligation to enforce the list guidelines at
all. True, the guidelines theoretically constitute an
edict; but the phrasing of the guidelines is advisory
throughout ('we recommend', 'please consider', 'is
discouraged' &c.) with the sole exception of the
sentence "The arbitrary advertisment of goods and
services (SPAM) is not permitted on the Nova Roma
mainlist, unless the advertiser is a member of Nova
Roma's marketplace, the Macellum." That, therefore, is
the only legally binding item in the entire edict.

So what is the use of these guidelines? To be sure,
they are helpful to new arrivals as a brief run-down
of what is and is not considered appropriate. Beyond
that, it seems to me that they serve only as a weapon
with which opponents can beat one another about the
ears.

Not only this, but their recommendations are flouted
with great frequency, and it would be both absurd and
impossible for the praetors to attempt to sanction
everyone by whom they are flouted. What is the result
of this? That whenever they are enforced there is a
justifiable outcry of 'selective justice'; and
whenever they are not enforced there is an equally
justifiable outcry of 'then what are they there for?'

What *are* they there for? Thanks to the efforts of
our present Senior Consul we have both the lex
poenalis, which make it specifically illegal to libel
and threaten, and the lex iudiciaria, which gives the
praetors discretion to punish any other behaviour they
consider illegal if asked to do so. The praetors have
the authority of their own imperium to put a stop to
behaviour they consider disruptive or dangerous to
public order.

I can see no use for these guidelines whatever, except
perhaps as a primer to be issued to new subscribers.
There is certainly no need for the guidelines to be
embodied in an edict, since only one sentence in the
whole text has any binding force anyway. They patently
do not stop people from threatening or insulting one
another in the Forum, so their deterrent value is nil.
They are phrased so as to make them unenforceable, so
their judicial value is nil. They are, in fact, a
positive hinderance to civil discourse in that they
create false expectations and consequent
disappointment.

I think I remember hearing that the praetors are
revising the guideliness for reissue. I hope they
decide to revise them out of existence altogether.

________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Salvete Omnes,

Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
made in the latter part of last year but I was
honestly having second thoughts right up until I
pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(

My reasons for resigning are multiple, and I will not
bore you with them now. Suffice to say I think two
years is ample time to occupy any magistracy and I now
feel the time is right for a fresh pair of hands to
take our bouyant provincia forward.

There are some people I would like to thank for all
their help and assistance in the past two years.
Chronologically, my invaluable provincial assistants,
past and present:

Lucius Salix Cicero
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
Aulus Apollonius Cordus
Equestria Iunia Laeca and
Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus

In addition, two prominent citizens stand out for me
as well,

Gaia Fabia Livia and
Gaia Flavia Aureliana.

To you all, and everybody else who has impacted
positively on our provincia, thank you.

I'm sure that a call for candidates for my replacement
will be forthcoming in due course. I will of course
stay on as governor until a suitable replacement is
found.

Bene valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae


________________________________________________________________________
BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Salve Decime Iuni Silane,

Great work in your term as Propraeter of Britannia. We all look
foward to seeing you in other departments and political offices in
future.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<iuniussilanus@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
> tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
> senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
> made in the latter part of last year but I was
> honestly having second thoughts right up until I
> pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(
>
> My reasons for resigning are multiple, and I will not
> bore you with them now. Suffice to say I think two
> years is ample time to occupy any magistracy and I now
> feel the time is right for a fresh pair of hands to
> take our bouyant provincia forward.
>
> There are some people I would like to thank for all
> their help and assistance in the past two years.
> Chronologically, my invaluable provincial assistants,
> past and present:
>
> Lucius Salix Cicero
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
> Aulus Apollonius Cordus
> Equestria Iunia Laeca and
> Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
>
> In addition, two prominent citizens stand out for me
> as well,
>
> Gaia Fabia Livia and
> Gaia Flavia Aureliana.
>
> To you all, and everybody else who has impacted
> positively on our provincia, thank you.
>
> I'm sure that a call for candidates for my replacement
> will be forthcoming in due course. I will of course
> stay on as governor until a suitable replacement is
> found.
>
> Bene valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
> Propraetor Britanniae
>
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
__

> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and

save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Salvete Quirites,

Decimus Iunius Silanus wrote:

> Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
> tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
> senate of Nova Roma. [...]

This is a sad day for us all, Silanus. You have been an exemplary
governor for Britannia, and your successor will have an awfully large
pair of caligae to fill.

Thank you so very much for your two years of service to the Republic. I
hope that your life circumstances will permit you to continue to be
active in your province, and in Nova Roma at large, in other ways.

-- Marinus

Ave Decius Iunius,

What a bittersweet moment this must be for you! Good luck on your future endeavors and may the Senate appoint a propraetor who is able to step into your shoes in the near future!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Iunius Silanus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; britanniaprovincia@yahoogroups.com
Cc: salixcicero@...
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation


Salvete Omnes,

Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
made in the latter part of last year but I was
honestly having second thoughts right up until I
pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(

My reasons for resigning are multiple, and I will not
bore you with them now. Suffice to say I think two
years is ample time to occupy any magistracy and I now
feel the time is right for a fresh pair of hands to
take our bouyant provincia forward.

There are some people I would like to thank for all
their help and assistance in the past two years.
Chronologically, my invaluable provincial assistants,
past and present:

Lucius Salix Cicero
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
Aulus Apollonius Cordus
Equestria Iunia Laeca and
Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus

In addition, two prominent citizens stand out for me
as well,

Gaia Fabia Livia and
Gaia Flavia Aureliana.

To you all, and everybody else who has impacted
positively on our provincia, thank you.

I'm sure that a call for candidates for my replacement
will be forthcoming in due course. I will of course
stay on as governor until a suitable replacement is
found.

Bene valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae


________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I also would like to announce that I have notfied the Consuls that I am
stepping down
as the Propraetor of Nova Britanna so that I might better concentrate on
my other responsibilites
to the Res Publica. My decision to step down was not an easy one, but I
have given it considerable
though and I believe it is the correct one under the circumstances. I
would like to thank both the
magistrates and citizens of Nova Britannia for helping make our
Provincia one of the most active in
Nova Roma.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Rogator
Lictor

---

Salvete Apollonius Cordus et Omnes:

My comments below.... A little long but your words certainly merit a
good response.

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> I notice there have been many comments in the Forum
> recently to the effect that the list guidelines have
> not always been even-handedly enforced, and others
> pointing out that the praetors are not obliged to
> enforce those guidelines unless formally requested to
> do so.
>
> In fact, as far as I'm aware, the praetors are under
> no legal obligation to enforce the list guidelines at
> all. True, the guidelines theoretically constitute an
> edict; but the phrasing of the guidelines is advisory
> throughout ('we recommend', 'please consider', 'is
> discouraged' &c.) with the sole exception of the
> sentence "The arbitrary advertisment of goods and
> services (SPAM) is not permitted on the Nova Roma
> mainlist, unless the advertiser is a member of Nova
> Roma's marketplace, the Macellum." That, therefore, is
> the only legally binding item in the entire edict.

Pompeia: Well, at one point, 2000 to early 2002 we had a Curatrix
Sermonen, who had authority over the list, but was subject to veto by
those higher than her. Then, with the advent of the Praetors's
taking it over, I understand that it was the Praetor's dominion.
This was discussed with me when I was Praetor, and Labienus, and one
of the questions asked of me was of course, would I moderate it, and
I said yes. So Marcus Octavius the Consul (correct me if I'm wrong)
drafted legislation which was passed, to have the Praetor's act as
list moderators, with the Office of Curatrix Sermonen being
abolished. This legislation was in I believe April or May of 2002,
as P. Vedia had resigned I believe March the 15th. It should still
be in the Tabularium. So, with this, Apollonius, I *do* see an
obligation on the part of the Praetors to moderate this list, and
maintain civility.

As far as 'waiting' to be petitioned, I didn't. Simply that's not
the way "i was trained, (grin)", and I also I felt then as you, that
guidelines, unless enforced consistently, were not worth the
bandwidth they displayed. I would try to keep issues person to person
(if they chose not to keep it that way, well)...But I would speak
out publicly if I felt that we were treading on thin macronational
ice, re libel and slander and a couple of times when magistrates were
made to look foolish by other magistrates.

>
> So what is the use of these guidelines? To be sure,
> they are helpful to new arrivals as a brief run-down
> of what is and is not considered appropriate. Beyond
> that, it seems to me that they serve only as a weapon
> with which opponents can beat one another about the
> ears.

Pompeia: Indeed. "Should", "consider", "please" etc. are words
steering people in the right direction of communication, but, alas,
from the letter of the law, people will do what they can and not what
they should. But in the writing of the initial script, (the words of
P. Cassia) which has been amended by myself and my successors, I
guess these words were given as 'friendly reminders' rather than
a 'do this or else' stance, giving people the benefit of the doubt in
terms of their willingness to be civil.

>
> Not only this, but their recommendations are flouted
> with great frequency, and it would be both absurd and
> impossible for the praetors to attempt to sanction
> everyone by whom they are flouted. What is the result
> of this? That whenever they are enforced there is a
> justifiable outcry of 'selective justice'; and
> whenever they are not enforced there is an equally
> justifiable outcry of 'then what are they there for?'

Pompeia: Indeed, they are flouted big-time. But at the time that
was 'all' we had for legislation pertaining to common electronic
dialogue. The Praetoral legislation existant other than the list
guidelines were more outlining the Procedures for submitting a
petiton and court proceedings from there, the actual Peonalis was the
List Guidelines.

In a way, I think we could do without them, but I had read the Lex
Salicia Peonalis, and aside from slander and libel, and harassment,
there is nothing really that addresses name calling, referring to
another's ideas as the product of animal catabolism, discrimination
of other natures except for religion (unless I've missed that).
Also, is it 'worth' the trouble of setting up a court when someone
acts like a jerk on the mainlist? Sometimes a simple warning, then
if need be, a period of moderation is indicated. It depends on the
severity of the issue of course.



When I was a Praetor I had scribes to assist me. But again, unless
they are consistently applied, and in a bipartisan fashion, they are
useless in that they serve to breed an electronic food-fight. Most of
the year it wasn't too bad. But let's face it, the list moderator
isn't the most popular person at the best of times, I should think.

>
> What *are* they there for? Thanks to the efforts of
> our present Senior Consul we have both the lex
> poenalis, which make it specifically illegal to libel
> and threaten, and the lex iudiciaria, which gives the
> praetors discretion to punish any other behaviour they
> consider illegal if asked to do so. The praetors have
> the authority of their own imperium to put a stop to
> behaviour they consider disruptive or dangerous to
> public order.
>
> I can see no use for these guidelines whatever, except
> perhaps as a primer to be issued to new subscribers.
> There is certainly no need for the guidelines to be
> embodied in an edict, since only one sentence in the
> whole text has any binding force anyway. They patently
> do not stop people from threatening or insulting one
> another in the Forum, so their deterrent value is nil.
> They are phrased so as to make them unenforceable, so
> their judicial value is nil. They are, in fact, a
> positive hinderance to civil discourse in that they
> create false expectations and consequent
> disappointment.

Pompeia: Well, might I suggest that they might 'might' at one point
keep us out of court. Yes, court :) I have heard one lawyer say
that the chances of us ever being sued are remote. They are today.
But maybe not tomorrow. I am not sure how much research you have
done on electronic communication, but the occurrence of "Internet
Bullying" is becoming a widespread problem. People who like
to 'bully' other people...blatently on lists like this, privately
writing nastygrams berating the characters of another, lying about
things they said or did, constructing websites where people's faces
are on the bodies of others in an attempt to defame their
character....although the latter is usually kids. But the whole
thing is being worked on. It is hard to prove as yet, but in time to
come, I believe with the advancements made in tracking software, such
persons will be caught and duly prosecuted.

If we 'forgo' any proactive attempt to discourage civility and simply
wait for people to petition the Praetors, we open doors to people
like this, and allow our citizens to be victims of these people (who
may also be citizens). It is no joke. I have read accounts of
people who have gone to Doctors over being bullied both
electronically or personally through psychological abuse, and they
have been diagnose with depressions and Post Traumatic Stress
Syndrome. The problem is likely not esculating, it is likely just
being discovered. We simply 'don't know' all the dope on every poster.

Otherwise,we already have atleast one post which is 'contra rem' of
the Criminal Code of Canada's Hate Laws (oooooh, bet I scared you
guys eh eh eh?) and some which might be litigous civally there and in
other places, if one had lots of money to sue us for the sake of
suing us.

Also, Apolloni, please consider that the richer we get, the more we
are a target for a law suit.

Further, I would not want Nova Roma to become the victim of legal
harassment by those (they are there) who do not approve of the
religio and would like nothing better than to do her a bad hand.
Such is not nice, but there's a diversity of people out there, some
of them are quite fundamentalist in their views, and the bigger and
richer we get, the more we are subject to this, simply because we are
worth $$$ it, whether we deserve it or not. If the mainlist is full
of dialogue anologous with a rap battle (yes I'm not one to talk)
then this only muddies the waters of virtue, declares what we say on
the mainlist as bologna (not Italy, I refer to a really horrible fat-
filled meat grin) and that we are not a wellmeaning organization. If
we invite people on the mainlist, in a civil fashion, they come into
the mainlist only to be beaten up, this might not be cause for a
suit, but it will fuel a bad reputation.

The disclaimer we have on our home page at Yahoo Groups is by no
means a 'cutting edge' against law suits....it is a "ginsu" , a bone,
a sop in terms of protection. It was placed there, after discussion
with Marcus Octavius and the Senate to state "we as a corporation are
not encouraging of behaviour unrecognized by Yahoo Groups TOS or our
own Constitution and Laws.

So as much as you and I wonder...what good are these doing anyway?
Well, nothing, if they are passively enforced (and that is not saying
anything nasty about any Praetor, just stating a fact), but if they
are actively enforced they will gently steer our viewers into
contributing to a positive experience (how about an unnecessarily
negative one) on the list, discouraging behaviour which might lead to
macronational troubles, and discouraging those who would render
psychological abuses to citizens....because they 'can'.

>
> I think I remember hearing that the praetors are
> revising the guideliness for reissue. I hope they
> decide to revise them out of existence altogether.

Pompeia: For reasons I have addressed above, I'm really not quite
sure I wanna put a rubber stamp on complete agreement with you. I
think they maybe need a rewrite with some stronger reenforcement,
although your comments are welltaken in other areas.

And on a personal note....Po fires a series of recently purchased
crumpets on Apollonius' desk, in flying saucer fashion. Apollonius,
these are terrible, I'm sorry. I had these when I was a kid and I
thought they were, well 'better'....what am I supposed to do with
these, eh?????? (g)



Valete,
Pompeia

>
>

______________________________________________________________________
__

> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and

save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk

Ave Gaius Minucius,

Another bittersweet moment, I wonder if there will be a third today! <g> Good luck on your future endeavors!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; Nova Britannia Mailing List
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:30 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation as Propraetor Nova Brtiannia


Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I also would like to announce that I have notfied the Consuls that I am
stepping down
as the Propraetor of Nova Britanna so that I might better concentrate on
my other responsibilites
to the Res Publica. My decision to step down was not an easy one, but I
have given it considerable
though and I believe it is the correct one under the circumstances. I
would like to thank both the
magistrates and citizens of Nova Britannia for helping make our
Provincia one of the most active in
Nova Roma.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Rogator
Lictor





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites, et salve Gai Minuci,

> I also would like to announce that I have notfied the Consuls that I am
> stepping down as the Propraetor of Nova Britanna

Another loss for the Republic, though I respect your need to take this
step at this time. Nova Britannia will be hard-pressed to find another
such as you, though I'm sure your fine example will help your successor
to grow into the role.

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<iuniussilanus@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,

Salve Silane,

> Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
> tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
> senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
> made in the latter part of last year but I was
> honestly having second thoughts right up until I
> pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(

It is indeed a sad day but sadness tempered by the knowledge that
Britannia is a much stronger province due to your efforts. Well done.

Vale,

Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
<c.minucius.hadrianus@n...> wrote:

> Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salve Hadriane,

> I also would like to announce that I have notfied the Consuls that
>I am stepping down as the Propraetor of Nova Britanna so that I
>might better concentrate on my other responsibilites
> to the Res Publica. My decision to step down was not an easy one,
>but I have given it considerable though and I believe it is the
>correct one under the circumstances.

You have served our province well indeed and should be proud of your
work. Thank you. And you picked a good time to announce your
resignation, right after the superbowl victory!!

Vale,

Palladius

Salve Amice!

I am still lurking here on the Britannia list. Now I had to come the
surface and tell You that even if I understand You, I am very sorry
because You have meant a lot for your Provincia.

Well my friend, now You will have to promise to continue your good
work in the Provinicia under other circumstances and I really hope
that this doesn't mean that You wont continue as usual on the
international level.

>Salvete Omnes,
>
>Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
>tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
>senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
>made in the latter part of last year but I was
>honestly having second thoughts right up until I
>pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(
>
>My reasons for resigning are multiple, and I will not
>bore you with them now. Suffice to say I think two
>years is ample time to occupy any magistracy and I now
>feel the time is right for a fresh pair of hands to
>take our bouyant provincia forward.
>
>There are some people I would like to thank for all
>their help and assistance in the past two years.
>Chronologically, my invaluable provincial assistants,
>past and present:
>
>Lucius Salix Cicero
>Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
>Aulus Apollonius Cordus
>Equestria Iunia Laeca and
>Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
>
>In addition, two prominent citizens stand out for me
>as well,
>
>Gaia Fabia Livia and
>Gaia Flavia Aureliana.
>
>To you all, and everybody else who has impacted
>positively on our provincia, thank you.
>
>I'm sure that a call for candidates for my replacement
>will be forthcoming in due course. I will of course
>stay on as governor until a suitable replacement is
>found.
>
>Bene valete
>
>Decimus Iunius Silanus
>Propraetor Britanniae
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and
>save £80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BritanniaProvincia/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BritanniaProvincia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Illustri C. Minucius Hadrianus!

It is with some sadness I see You leave this post, still I am sure
tat You will continue your good work in Nova Roma at another
position. Thank You for your good work!

>Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>I also would like to announce that I have notfied the Consuls that I am
>stepping down
>as the Propraetor of Nova Britanna so that I might better concentrate on
>my other responsibilites
>to the Res Publica. My decision to step down was not an easy one, but I
>have given it considerable
>though and I believe it is the correct one under the circumstances. I
>would like to thank both the
>magistrates and citizens of Nova Britannia for helping make our
>Provincia one of the most active in
>Nova Roma.
>
>Valete,
>
>C. Minucius Hadrianus
>Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
>Rogator
>Lictor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Decimus Iunius Silanus
<iuniussilanus@y...> wrote:

>Salvete Omnes,

>Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
>tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
>senate of Nova Roma.

Placidia Prisca Decimo Iunio Silano, Propraetor Britanniae. Salutem Plurimam
Dicit.

I should like to offer my thanks for the wisdom and strength with which you
have led us, as governor of our province.

Optime vale.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites,

Congratulations to my very good friend Decimus Iunius Silanus on his
successful tenure as Propraetor Britanniae.

I am sorry to see him leave his post, but I know he has his
reasons. May the Gods guide the Senate in choosing a successor.

Good luck going forward Decime Iuni!

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas

Salve Silane,

I wish to publicly thank you for the opportunity to serve such an exemplary
leader. It has been a fruitful year for the province under your assured
guidance. Thank you my friend.

Bene vale,

Equestria

----- Original Message -----
From: "Decimus Iunius Silanus" <iuniussilanus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>; <britanniaprovincia@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <salixcicero@...>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation


> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
> tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
> senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
> made in the latter part of last year but I was
> honestly having second thoughts right up until I
> pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(
>
> My reasons for resigning are multiple, and I will not
> bore you with them now. Suffice to say I think two
> years is ample time to occupy any magistracy and I now
> feel the time is right for a fresh pair of hands to
> take our bouyant provincia forward.
>
> There are some people I would like to thank for all
> their help and assistance in the past two years.
> Chronologically, my invaluable provincial assistants,
> past and present:
>
> Lucius Salix Cicero
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
> Aulus Apollonius Cordus
> Equestria Iunia Laeca and
> Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
>
> In addition, two prominent citizens stand out for me
> as well,
>
> Gaia Fabia Livia and
> Gaia Flavia Aureliana.
>
> To you all, and everybody else who has impacted
> positively on our provincia, thank you.
>
> I'm sure that a call for candidates for my replacement
> will be forthcoming in due course. I will of course
> stay on as governor until a suitable replacement is
> found.
>
> Bene valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
> Propraetor Britanniae
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80
http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Brandon W. wrote:

> I have heard by many that this holiday, so to
>speak, of the Catholic church originates from the Lupercalia; can
>anyone cleay up this question for me?
>

Well I'm no scholar but, from what I've read, I believe The Lupercalia
was February 15th and in 494 Pope Gelasius I made Feb 15th the Festival
of the Purification of the Virgin Mary since the Lupercalia had been so
popular and difficult to eradicate.

Flavia Lucilla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/2/04 8:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
iuniussilanus@... writes:

> Today is quite a sad day for me. I have officially
> tended my resignation as governor of Britannia to the
> senate of Nova Roma. In truth, it was a decision I
> made in the latter part of last year but I was
> honestly having second thoughts right up until I
> pressed send on my second and final annual report :-(
>

Salvete
Your commitment to the project is beyond measure. You stepped in on the
heels of a revolt
and brought back one of our earliest European provinces to glory. For that
you have my eternal gratitude and my endorsement for any other magistracy you
wish to stand for.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

I would like to inform my fellow citizens that I shall be changing my
praenomen from Cornelius to Gaius as from today.
I have done so to come closer to roman practice in name nomenclature as
rarely (if ever!) was a gentile nomen used as a praenomen.
This has been done with the agreement of both censores.

Optime valete

C. Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
Scriba Censoris CFQ

Salvete omnes,

I'll be off line and on the move for a few days by the look of
things. I'll catch up on my mail and duties when I return in a few
days.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve, Decius Iunius Palladius:

On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 06:37:22AM -0000, deciusiunius wrote:
>
> Since the nota is no more, I am going to keep this short. I just want
> to make a minor correction to what you said.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 07:42:15AM -0000, deciusiunius wrote:
> >
> > > A nota in such a case is like advocating the death penalty for
> > > someone who drove 60 mph in a 50 mph zone, except unlike speeding
> > > Drusus broke no law or rule so perhaps the speeding analogy is
> too
> > > serious.
> >
> > Sorry, didn't you just mention keeping some perspective? A nota is
> > nothing like the death penalty - in fact, since Drusus has shown a
> > complete disregard for the legal structure of Nova Roma and has
> > repeatedly stated his contempt for Nova Roma, to him it is no
> >penalty at all - and his actions were far more akin to, say, someone
> >in America in 1775 or 1776 appealing to the British government for
> >help, something that would be seen as treason. Your metaphor shares
> >no resemblance to any of the pertinent facts,
>
> You are answering the wrong point. Up above, where I admit I was a
> tad hyperbolic, I was not referring to Drusus circumventing the legal
> system but rather his publicly posting an email by his "enemy"
> Galerius Secundus. Hardly a treasonous action. You may find that act
> reprehensible, I find it a minor wrong considering the context but it
> was not treason by any stretch of the imagination.

Hmm, I must have said that Drusus committed treason right next to where
you said that he had actually been executed, blood on the floor and
entrails scattered... or something like that. Unfortunately, that post
seems to have been lost, or perhaps came out of that stretch of
imagination. A _long_ stretch.

In either case, whatever the original referent, I was simply
underscoring your hyperbole by comparing it to a more balanced metaphor.
That was all.

> My discussion of circumventing the system came later in my email (and
> you responded at length) and I made no speeding analogies in that
> discussion but agreed it was the more serious part of the nota.

There, we're in agreement. However, I do not think of violations of
email privacy as lightly as you seem to - in pretty much every other Net
group I know of, the person doing this would have been ostracized on the
simple principle of self-protection (and negative reinforcement, in the
best sense of the term), something I see as the correct response to such
behavior.

> Just as a historical note, it would have depended who you were and in
> which part of America you lived whether it was treason to appeal to
> the British government.

Of course. As in any revolution, most of the population are neutrals,
some percentage are The Old School, and some The New Guys. I'm looking
at it from my current macronational perspective - that of the winner in
the conflict.

> After the war, John Adams estimated that
> during the Revolution, about one third of the people supported the
> Revolution, one third remained loyal to the Crown and one third
> didn't care one way or the other.

Possibly good motivational propaganda, but I doubt that it was an
accurate estimate; 5/5/90 would probably be much closer. The average
Joe doesn't want war; he's got a harvest to get in, kids to raise, and
clothes to mend.

> If you ever get a chance, I recommend the
> novel Oliver Wiswell (sp?) by Kenneth Roberts, written entirely from
> the perspective of a young Tory. It's a very effective historical
> novel and really personalizes in a sympathetic way how the Revolution
> was viewed by the Loyalist one third.

Thank you for the recommendation! I'd picked up a copy of "Speeches in
the Senate and Congress" (1894-95) a while back, a little two-volume set
that explored the high points of American history from the political
perspective which of course covered the revolutionary viewpoint. The
Wiswell book sounds like it would provide a fascinating balance.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit.
No fort is so strong that it cannot be taken with money.
-- Cicero, "In Verrem"

Salvete Quirites,

I've read what Cordus and Pompeia have written, and rather than quote
text and reply to specific items, I'm going to simply start fresh and
offer my own take on the problem of keeping our forum a civil and
welcoming place.

We all live in societies where some kind of law enforcement agencies
exist. We have been socialized into a mindset of "calling the police"
when a crime of sufficient severity occurs, and otherwise of living and
letting live, rather than "taking the law into our own hands." All of
these are good practices for our modern day, living as we do in
heterogeneous societies with the differing attitudes, values, and
beliefs of those individuals making up our nations.

In Nova Roma we have no police. The Praetors are not police. They are
more like judges. The closest thing we have to a policeman here would
be the Aediles, who are tasked with maintaining fair business practices
in the markets. They have authority somewhat like a Sheriff in the Old
West, or a Chief of Police in the modern day. To prosecute a wrongdoing
they still have to bring the case before a higher magistrate, such as
our Praetors.

In Roma Antiqua, going back to about 110 BCE, or 643 auc, which is
roughly where we placed our point of departure in creating our own
institutions of government, the business of enforcing the laws fell upon
the citizens themselves. In principle, citizens within each of the
social classes would keep each other in line, taking a matter before the
magistrates only when an egregious wrong had been done. There was no
jail to speak of, at least not for a citizen of Roma. If someone was
charged with a heinous offense, the Praetor might task some of his
lictors to guard that person awaiting trial. Otherwise, law
enforcement, like warfighting, was the right and duty of all able bodied
adult men.

I imagine it worked about as well then as it does now for us. Those
people of good will do voluntarily police themselves, maintaining
civility most of the time and issuing a sincere apology if in a moment
of passion they transgress. A few people who consider themselves above
the law, who consider the majority of our citizens to be nothing more
than "the mob," carry on in their high-handed manner replicating the
behavior of those foolish and arrogant Romans of similar high social
rank who abused their rank and violated the social compact of Roma
Antiqua back then. The younger ones could be dealt with if they went to
serve in the Legions, either learning respect for their fellow citizens
via some barracks justice, or gaining posthumous honors after a battle,
while nobody mentioned that the spear thrust had been through the back.
The older ones had to largely be put up with as best each citizen might.
Save for a Censorial nota, there wasn't much else that could be done
when a person had social and economic power to weild.

We know that some people tried to make the system work. But we see in
the last century of the Old Republic that prosecution became ever more a
matter of political factions jostling for control of the government, and
less a matter of fair and equal justice. In the Roman law courts of the
8th century a.u.c., the rule truly was "How much justice can you afford?"

I don't know about you, but I don't want to see Nova Roma come to that.

As Rome grew, and the problems of people flouting the laws became worse,
the Vigiles, originally formed as a fire brigade, took up the business
of enforcing the laws as well. This modification to things occured in
the Principate, which would make Vigiles an ahistoric institution for
us. But perhaps it's time for us to create our own Vigiles, modified to
suit our own needs today?

Think about it. Let's discuss the idea and see how we, collectively,
feel about it. Perhaps it's not the right step at this time, but
perhaps it is. If we do decide to create something like a group of
Vigiles, they should, I think, come under the direct authority of the
Aediles who would in turn send serious charges, when warranted, to the
Praetors. But that's all ultimately for the Praetors and the Aediles to
work out among themselves. I offer you the idea as a basis for
discussion. If it turns out to be something that we have a consensus
about doing, we'll craft the necessary enabling legislation, and put it
up for a vote in the Comitiae.

Valete!

Gn. Equitius Marinus

How sad it is to bid farewell to two provincial colleagues: Decimus Iunius
Silanus, Propraetor Britanniae, and Caius Minucius Hadrianus, Propraetor
Novae Britanniae. These two excellent gentlemen have been such a pleasure to
work with, and I have learned much from each of them.

I applaud your service -- in this and so many other tasks!

---
IVLI.SEMPRON.MAGN.PR.AM.BOR.
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis
|||| http://ambor.novaroma.org
Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves/

AVE DECIME IVNI SILANE

It is sad you are resigning your position as Propraetor of
Britannia, expecially because everyone is wondering how your
Provincia could grow with you keeping leading it.
Indeed, today Britannia is a very important Provincia in Europe.
Thank you!

OPTIME VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Legatvs Italiae

Salvete Omnes,

several people sent messages of gratitude after the resignations of
two great Propraetores. Please, leave me to do the same wishing the
best luck to Iunius Silanus and to Minucius Hadrianus. Two men
worked hardly for the local growment of Nova Roma.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Propraetor Italiae

Salvete Quirites;

Now all I can do is hail the future propraetores, may they,
inspired by the examples of Silanus and Hadriunus, lead their
respective Provinciae to an even greater future!
valete Fabia Vera



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> several people sent messages of gratitude after the resignations of
> two great Propraetores. Please, leave me to do the same wishing the
> best luck to Iunius Silanus and to Minucius Hadrianus. Two men
> worked hardly for the local growment of Nova Roma.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Propraetor Italiae

Salvete omnes,

In approximately 5 minutes the film "Gladiator" will be shown as the ABC
Monday Night Movie. Check your local listings and happy viewing!

Valete,

G. Lanius Falco


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Livia Cornelia Hibernia"
<livia_cornelia_hibernia@c...> wrote:

> Ave Minucius Hadrianus
>
> Congratulations to all Citizens in Nova Britannia on the victory of
> the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXVIII !
>
> Although I now reside in Provincia California (San Diego), I was born
> and raised in Nova Britannia (Lowell, MA), long enough ago to
> remember when the "Boston" Patriots were founded and played their
> games in Harvard Stadium!
>
> This was one of the best Super Bowls ever!
> What a specticle! So very Roman in so many ways.
>
> Optime Vale
> Livia Cornelia Hibernia

Salve,

It was an excellent, well fought game by both teams, wasn't it. Two
years ago though I think was the best. That whole season almost
seemed like a Hollywood drama. Second string QB thrust into the
limelight taking a team that was one of the worst in the league to the
Super Bowl and winning with a 48 yard field goal as the clock expired.
Now that was high sports drama!

This one didn't quite have that drama, but it was full of irony.
Ricky Proehl was the receiver for the Rams that scored the TD that
tied things up against the Pats in Super Bowl XXXVI only to have
Vinatieri win the game as the clock ticked out. Bill Belichick is
given a lot of credit for defense, but his biggest unsung ability is
to know how to use the clock to his advantage.

At least Nova Britannians have something to be cheerful about until
the Red Sox break our hearts once again. <G>

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola,

I guess that its really a moot point since the Nota has been
withdrawn. At this stage we agree on some things and we disagree on
others. Since we're both stuborn we'll never concede those points
where we disagree, will we? At least we've kept it somewhat civil
between us, so I guess that's a start, either that or we a slipping in
our old age. <G>

> > All it takes is a little blood in the water and the sharks go nuts.
> > If you and I agree on nothing else, I think we both agree there is
> > enough bad blood and simmering personal feuds to start a feeding
> > frenzy to rival my family at an all you can eat buffet.
>
> [chuckle] I've never met your family, but - I hang around with a bunch
> of sailors. "Free food/booze" are words to be spoken softly and
> preferably from behind a stout barrier, lest you get trampled by the
> thundering herd.

Are you sure you haven't met my family? You've pretty much described
my brother's wedding reception! Come to think of it, bad blood and
simmer personal feuds describes my grandmother's funeral without the
free booze and food. Someday I will figure out a way to turn that
experience into dinner theatre without having the whole family turn on
me like the pack of wolves they are. Goodbye "Sal and Martha's Comedy
Wedding" and hello "Grandma's Comedy Funeral."

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Forward:

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: <oup@...>
To: <CLQUAJ-L@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:30 AM
Subject: ToC for The Classical Quarterly 53-2


> The Classical Quarterly -- Table of Contents Alert
>
> A new issue of The Classical Quarterly
> has been made available:
>
> December 2003; Vol. 53, No. 2
>
> URL: http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> A testimony of Anaximenes in Plato
> Daniel W. Graham, pp. 327-337
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530327.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Praxidamas' crown and the omission at Pindar, Nemean 6.18
> J. Fenno, pp. 338-346
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530338.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Mapping Phleious: politics and myth-making in Bacchylides 9
> David Fearn, pp. 347-367
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530347.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Motherhood or status? Editorial choices in Sophocles, Electra 187
> Margalit Finkelberg, pp. 368-376
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530368.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gender and transgression in Sophocles' Electra
> Graham Wheeler, pp. 377-388
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530377.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Euripides and Macedon, or the silence of the Frogs
> Scott Scullion, pp. 389-400
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530389.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Making the stronger argument the weaker: Euripides, Electra 518-441
> Robert L. Gallagher, pp. 401-415
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530401.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Croesus' second reprieve and other tales of the Persian court
> Stephanie West, pp. 416-437
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530416.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> '&038C;[rho][kappa]o[upsi] [pi][alpha]&03AF;&03DB;
&03AD;[sigma][tau]ì[nu] &03AC;[nu]&03CE;[nu][upsi][mu]o&03DB;: the
aftermath of Plataean perjury
> Stephanie West, pp. 438-447
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530438.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Numbers in Greek poetry and historiography: quantifying Fehling
> Catherine Rubincam, pp. 448-463
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530448.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Personal enmity as a motivation in forensic speeches
> Asako Kurihara, pp. 464-477
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530464.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Aesthetics and recall: Callimachus frs. 226-9 Pf. reconsidered
> Benjamin Acosta-Hughes, pp. 478-489
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530478.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Did the Greek ear detect 'careless` verbal repetitions?
> P. E. Pickering, pp. 490-499
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530490.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Plato's mathematical construction
> Reviel Netz, pp. 500-509
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530500.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The ethnic origins of the friends of the Antigonid kings of Macedon
> James L. O'Neil, pp. 510-522
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530510.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Pliny the Elder on the melting and corrosion of silver with tin solders:
prius liquescat argentum ... ab eo erodi argentum (HN 34.161)
> E. Paparazzo, pp. 523-529
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530523.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The new Vindolanda writing-tablets
> J. N. Adams, pp. 530-575
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530530.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Plotinus' last words
> Glenn W. Most, pp. 576-587
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530576.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The new Rome and the old: Ammianus Marcellinus' silences on Constantinople
> Gavin Kelly, pp. 588-607
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530588.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gnesippus and the rivals of Aristophanes
> J. H. Hordern, pp. 608-613
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530608.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Polyaenus on Iphicrates
> David Whitehead, pp. 613-616
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530613.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Horace's satelles orci (odes 2.18.34)
> Archibald Allen, pp. 616-619
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530616.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vain repetitions? Notes on the text of Ovid, Ars Amatoria 2.593 and
Metamorphoses 14.240
> E. J. Kenney, pp. 619-620
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530619.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Birds, flames and epic closure in Ovid, Metamorphoses 13.600-20 and
14.568-80
> Sophia Papaioannou, pp. 620-624
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530620.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ovidian plumbing in Metamorphoses 4
> Robert Shorrock, pp. 624-627
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530624.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Manilius' solitary chariot-ride (Astronomica 2.138-40)
> Katharina Volk, pp. 628-633
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530628.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hot or strong? A textual note on Seneca, Phoenissae 254
> S. J. Harrison, pp. 633-634
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530633.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thyestes' belch (Seneca, Thy. 911-12)
> Gottfried Mader, pp. 634-636
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530634.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Embola Petroniana
> F. S. Naiden, pp. 637-639
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/hdb/Volume_53/Issue_02/530637.sgm.abs.html
>
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G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem III Nonae Februarii; the day is nefastus.

Tomorrow is pridie Nonae Februarii; the day is nefastus.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex

G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "Trajan's Roman Cavalry Site":

http://www.trajan20.freeserve.co.uk/index.html

This site, created by a British reenactor provides some wonderful
photographs of recreations of Roman cavalry equipment.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus