> Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Octaviae Minuciae Sabinae S.P.D.

> It was White on Green. Petronius Gnipho, driving Vita Brevis for Gn.
> Equitius Marinus, versus Euthymus, driving Inexpugnabilis III for C.
> Curius Saturninus.

> Gnipho was out the gate first, with Euthymus on his heels.

> As they turned into the fourth
> lap, the strangest thing happened. A woman, dressed in green, crowned
> with a garland of roses hurtled the ditch between spectators and track.
> She threw herself before Gnipo's oncoming team, shouting something. I
> could not make it out. I later learned she was shouting that she was
> offering herself in devotio to Flora as a sacrifice. Gnipho pulled back
> with all his might and barely managed to stop his horses short of
> trampling her. The most amazing thing happened them. Euthymus could
> have pulled away to an unbeatable lead, but he pulled his team up a few
> paces beyond Gnipho and stopped in a gesture of truly noble
> sportsmanship to his rival.

> The crowd went mad at it, cheering. But
> even they were silenced -- in fact I suspect that even Iuppiter on far
> away Olympus dropped his goblet in startlement, when Scaurus rose to his
> feet and bellowed to the attendants: "Get that madwoman off the track
> now!" She was dragged off. Gnipho pulled parallel to Euthymus, each
> nodded to the other, and they were off again.

> The sixth dolphin dropped and then Euthymus' strategy became clear.
> Lashing them onward he forced his team to fever pitch, outpacing Gnipho
> by two lengths, then three, then four. The race seemed his when
> suddenly the left wheel of his quadriga began to wobble, and then came
> away. In an instant cut the leather straps which bound him to the
> chariot and leapt, his foot barely touching the quadriga's front panel.
> He landed astride the left centre horse of his team. Gnipho pressed
> forward, closing the gap to but a length. Still, Euthymus urged his
> team on, dragging the broken chariot behind, as they crossed the alba linea.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greek or Roman..??


Salve,

Actually it's hard to separate the two because Greek Civilization had
a profound effect on Roman Civilization.

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "antesignanus" <antesignanus@y...>
wrote:
>
> There has been a discussion lately between me and my friends.I
> wanted to carry the simple main question here ..It is:
>
> Considering the big picture of the western civilization...which
> one really established and contributed more to the western
> civilization of today ?Ancient Greeks or ancient Romans..?? Any
> evidences for the argument will be appreciated...
>
> Thanks and as you say Vale...
>
> Seren




Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "sabina_equitia_doris" <doris-butler@...>


>, I simply state that
> as an average Western woman, moderately well educated, it simply
> never dawned on me that modern Westerners, my peers, would practice
> animal sacrifice.

The Religio was based on animal sacrifice. I joined Nova Roma because here
I found somewhere that wanted to offer a home to the Religio today. As
another "average Western woman, moderately well educated," it would never,
ever have dawned on me that this DIDN'T include animal sacrifice. Otherwise
it would have been making a mockery of my deeply held religious beliefs.

Flavia Lucilla Merula

> avete omnes,
>
> May 1st 2004 is the "day of welcomes", one of the most important

> in recent European history.
> The accession of ten new member states to the European Union
> signifies the re-unification of Europe and the ending of the
> artificial divisions of the last century.
> (www.eu2004.ie)(www.eurunion.org).
>
> I'd like to publicly welcome NR citizens from the following

> in this new home of 25 countries and 455 millions of people:
> Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania,

> Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia.
>
> valete
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
> Aedilis Curulis, Legatus Internis Rebus Italiae

> The "Best of" Dead Horse has been throughly flogged as many times as
> the Slavery strawman has been trotted out.
>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > salvete omnes,
> >
> > Well, I just re-read the Constitution. And I realized that I had
> > missed something all along. There, enshrined in the VERY SECOND
> > SENTENCE, is all the argument I need.
> >
> > "We, the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and
> > sovereign nation, herewith set forth this Constitution as the
> > foundation and structure of our governing institutions and common
> > society. We hereby declare our Nation to stand as a beacon for

> > who would recreate the best of ancient Rome."
> >
> > "THE BEST OF ANCIENT ROME".

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Unforgiven wrote:
>
> > How much are these "taxes"?
>
> 1/3000 of the GDP of your home country. For a US citizen that

> to $12 US. For citizens of other countries it's different

> can check the tabularium for the current year tax edictum to get

> information.
>
> The deadline for payment of this year's tax without late penalty

> midnight tonight.
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus

> Salvete Omnes et salve mi mince Druse.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> drusus@b...> wrote:
> >>The "Best of" Dead Horse has been throughly flogged as many times
> as the Slavery strawman has been trotted out.
>
> Drusus<<
>
> Exactly why I used the phrase to begin with, and qualified it as
> a "subjective" best of. I was, and am, well aware of the wording

> our Constitution. The "best of" is what is possible and practical.
>
> Valete,
>
> Gaius Popillius Laenas

> From: "Gregory Rose" <gfr@w...>
>
>
> >
> > There is no consistent real-life activity in Nova Roma without the
> > Religio Romana. It is the core of our community in the real world

> > way that nothing else we do is. It is the only consistent, day in and
> > day out real-life activity in Nova Roma.
>

> --- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > I also ask all Quirites who can, in good conscience, offer

> > for this person to please do so.
>
>
> I will be honored to offer prayers to Diana Ephesus for the health
> of Lucius Cornelius Sulla's loved one. Thank you for letting us

>
> A. Moravia Aurelia

> Salve Amica!
>
> Thank you for the well thought out letter. I simply do not chip in
> my money to contribute to slaughter by proxy in any venue. If
> someone asks me to contribute towards paying for a luncheon, I ask
> what is it to buy? If the grocery list includes meat, I will then
> offer to bring a vegetarian dish instead, or simply not participate.
>
> I am very scrupulous to avoid slaughter by proxy in any setting. I
> have met many people who do not understand this, but few who do not
> respect it.
>
> My concern is that the Nova Roma home pages and their links give no
> hint that Nova Roma condones modern animal sacrifice. If a person
> eats meat, he goes and buys it and eats it. This is honest. So

> as he does not decieve me out of my time, energy or money to obtain
> his meat, while I do not condone his actions, I nonetheless keep my
> peace, and hope to lead by example that vegetarianism is a wise and
> healthy way of life.
>
> When and if Nova Roma spells out in blunt plain language that it
> condones animal sacrifice, then I will know that others will not
> have to find themselves in the dilemma I now find myself, and I
> shall be on my way. Meanwhile, all I am asking for is that the
> plain truth be readily accessable to all prospective citzens
> *before* they invest their time, money and energy into an
> organisation the practices of which many will have to find out the
> hard way are unreconcilable to concience or faith.
>
> --Sabina Equitia Doris
>
>

> Is it the consensus of NR that an elected official
> is "ALWAYS ON DUTY" and is therefore ALWAYS
> speaking as an elected official even though they
> sign off without using their title to signify that
> this is not an "official" communication and is
> simply the posting of a citizen who happens to be an
> elected official?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato L. Sicinio Druso G. Poppillio Laeno quiritibusque
> S.P.D.
>
> salvete,
>
> Hold on guys. You cannot have it both ways.
>
> The Constitution says simply "the best of ancient Rome"; it does not
> mention subjectivity or objectivity, obviously. I believe it is
> giving us, the citizens of NR, the power to decide for ourselves
> what "the best of ancient Rome" means for us. Secondly, the
> Constitution does not say "whatever is practical and possible"...it
> says "in all manners practical and *acceptable* "...a huge difference.
>
> So you have a choice, we *all* have a choice: either we obey the
> letter of the Constitution, or we do not. I choose to obey it.
>
> valete,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes et salve mi mince Druse.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > drusus@b...> wrote:
> > >>The "Best of" Dead Horse has been throughly flogged as many times
> > as the Slavery strawman has been trotted out.
> >
> > Drusus<<
> >
> > Exactly why I used the phrase to begin with, and qualified it as
> > a "subjective" best of. I was, and am, well aware of the wording
> of
> > our Constitution. The "best of" is what is possible and practical.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas

> Avete M Iuli et omnes,
>
> I was thinking that it would be interesting to bring back Latin as
> the common business language uniting the EEC. Perhaps this idea

> been thought about before; a revival would be wonderful,

> for us in NR.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
> <m_iulius@v...> wrote:
> > avete omnes,
> >
> > May 1st 2004 is the "day of welcomes", one of the most important
> days
> > in recent European history.
> > The accession of ten new member states to the European Union
> > signifies the re-unification of Europe and the ending of the
> > artificial divisions of the last century.
> > (www.eu2004.ie)(www.eurunion.org).
> >
> > I'd like to publicly welcome NR citizens from the following
> nations,
> > in this new home of 25 countries and 455 millions of people:
> > Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania,
> Malta,
> > Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia.
> >
> > valete
> > M IVL PERVSIANVS
> > Aedilis Curulis, Legatus Internis Rebus Italiae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, curatrix@v... wrote:
> Your document is attached.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve,
>
> L. Arminius Faustus TRP omnia quiritibus plus salutat
>
> I´ve seen posts that the main objective of NR is the religio. Yes,

> will not deny... however...
>
> 1. The Religio Romana requires a great level of ´cultural roman
> knowledge´ from its practitioner. It is written on the ´applicaion
> for priesthood´ and I cannot agree more.
>
> So, if we really want to help the religio as priority 1, we must do
> the priority 0, roman cultural increasing, roman knowledge, roman
> culture. We are still lacking on it.
>
> The religio will not grow on a poor earth. So, we must enrich it

> true knowledge, true teaching, true spreading of romanitas. Without
> this... the gods will receive a poor, or wrong, worship.
>
> The religious feeling is a very deep and comples matter. We cannot
> simply pick a person on the street and say ´Come to my lararium, to
> worshipp Saturn, Ianus and Vesta´. ´Vesta what?´ you will hear.

> doesn´t work.
>
> I deeply admire public rituals. But while we have people that
> understand the deep meaning of this, we have others that does not
> know the difference between Potestas and Curule Magistrature, for
> example... or the Palatine and Aventine... or Romulus and Aeneas.

> would be very strange, for example, worshipping Iove Indigete and
> don´t know who Aeneas was...
>
> I hope you understand my point.
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Here is the document


Salvete Omnes,

This message is one of the ones generated by the Netsky Worm (Virus).
The person who's address is listed here may not be the person who has
the infected computer, but the number of netsky infected messages
showing up in Nova Roma does mean that someone in Nova Roma has an
infected Computer.

If you are running a Computer that uses Microsoft Windows YOU COULD BE
THE OWNER OF THE INFECTED COMPUTER.

Microsoft Windows computers are subject to Virus infections, if you
insist on running this Operating System you have to purchase an
anti-virus program and pay for the updates to keep it current.

Some Viruses can steal your personal information like credit card
numbers. Others can be used to give a hacker remote control of your
computer so that it can be used for sending SPAM or for illegal
activities.

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, curatrix@v... wrote:
> Your document is attached.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve,
>
> Have you ever seen the movie "Groundhog Day"? The one where Bill

> is trapped in a time loop and is living the same day over and over?
>
> Many of us feel like Bill Murry when we come to this list and see

> exact same disputes presented over and over year after year. It's
> always Febuary 2nd in Nova Roma, and there is nothing to look

> to tomorrow but reliving Febuary 2nd again and again. That gets
> tiresome and leads to a certain shortness when the same point is

> replyed to for the hundredth time.
>
> Including the phrase "Best Of" in the Constitution was a horrible
> mistake. It's so vauge that almost any meaning can be applied to it,
> and that has lead to many pointless and heated arguments in the past
> and will continue to do so into the future.
>
> The person who wrote that phrase is no longer a citizen of Nova

> but if you check with anyone who knew him you will quickly discover
> that he had no intention of introducing something into Nova Roma's
> Constitution that has the overly broad meaning that some people are
> attempting to read into that phrase. Vedius would have been one of

> last people who would have advocated tossing out vast hunks of Roman
> traditions in favor of modern inovations and attempting to read that
> into his words is a distortion of what he intended.
>
> If it were up to me that unfortunate and misunderstood phrase would

> stricken from the Constitution.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato L. Sicinio Druso G. Poppillio Laeno

> > S.P.D.
> >
> > salvete,
> >
> > Hold on guys. You cannot have it both ways.
> >
> > The Constitution says simply "the best of ancient Rome"; it does

> > mention subjectivity or objectivity, obviously. I believe it is
> > giving us, the citizens of NR, the power to decide for ourselves
> > what "the best of ancient Rome" means for us. Secondly, the
> > Constitution does not say "whatever is practical and

> > says "in all manners practical and *acceptable* "...a huge

> >
> > So you have a choice, we *all* have a choice: either we obey the
> > letter of the Constitution, or we do not. I choose to obey it.
> >
> > valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> > <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes et salve mi mince Druse.
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > > drusus@b...> wrote:
> > > >>The "Best of" Dead Horse has been throughly flogged as many

> > > as the Slavery strawman has been trotted out.
> > >
> > > Drusus<<
> > >
> > > Exactly why I used the phrase to begin with, and qualified it

> > > a "subjective" best of. I was, and am, well aware of the

> > of
> > > our Constitution. The "best of" is what is possible and

> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Gaius Popillius Laenas

> Ave,
>
> Let us not forget the fact that any attachment sent to the NR main

>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:18 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Here is the document
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> This message is one of the ones generated by the Netsky Worm (Virus).
> The person who's address is listed here may not be the person who has
> the infected computer, but the number of netsky infected messages
> showing up in Nova Roma does mean that someone in Nova Roma has an
> infected Computer.
>
> If you are running a Computer that uses Microsoft Windows YOU COULD BE
> THE OWNER OF THE INFECTED COMPUTER.
>
> Microsoft Windows computers are subject to Virus infections, if you
> insist on running this Operating System you have to purchase an
> anti-virus program and pay for the updates to keep it current.
>
> Some Viruses can steal your personal information like credit card
> numbers. Others can be used to give a hacker remote control of your
> computer so that it can be used for sending SPAM or for illegal
> activities.
>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, curatrix@v... wrote:
> > Your document is attached.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Ex-Officio Tribunus Plebis Tiberius Galerius Paulinus SPD
>
> Romans!
>
>
> I would like to request that we take the weekend off from the

>
> When you post on any subject please keep in mind the Roman virtues

>
> Vale
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


> Tribunus Plebs

>
>
> *********************************
>
> The Roman Virtues
>
> Personal Virtues
> These are the qualities of life to which every Citizen (and,

>
> Auctoritas: "Spiritual Authority" The sense of one's social

>
> Comitas: "Humor" Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and friendliness.
>
> Clementia: "Mercy" Mildness and gentleness.
>
> Dignitas: "Dignity" A sense of self-worth, personal pride.
>
> Firmitas: "Tenacity" Strength of mind, the ability to stick to one's

>
> Frugalitas: "Frugalness" Economy and simplicity of style, without

>
> Gravitas: "Gravity" A sense of the importance of the matter at hand,

>
> Honestas: "Respectability" The image that one presents as a

>
> Humanitas: "Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being

>
> Industria: "Industriousness" Hard work.
>
> Pietas: "Dutifulness" More than religious piety; a respect for the

>
> Prudentia: "Prudence" Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.
>
> Salubritas: "Wholesomeness" Health and cleanliness.
>
> Severitas: "Sternness" Gravity, self-control.
>
> Veritas: "Truthfulness" Honesty in dealing with others.
>
> Public Virtues
> In addition to the private virtues which were aspired to by

>
> Abundantia: "Abundance, Plenty" The ideal of there being enough food

>
> Aequitas: "Equity" Fair dealing both within government and among the

>
> Bonus Eventus: "Good fortune" Remembrance of important positive events.
>
> Clementia: "Clemency" Mercy, shown to other nations.
>
> Concordia: "Concord" Harmony among the Roman people, and also

>
> Felicitas: "Happiness, prosperity" A celebration of the best aspects

>
> Fides: "Confidence" Good faith in all commercial and governmental

>
> Fortuna: "Fortune" An acknowledgement of positive events.
>
> Genius: "Spirit of Rome" Acknowledgement of the combined spirit of

>
> Hilaritas: "Mirth, rejoicing" An expression of happy times.
>
> Iustitia: "Justice" As expressed by sensible laws and governance.
>
> Laetitia: "Joy, Gladness" The celebration of thanksgiving, often of

>
> Liberalitas: "Liberality" Generous giving.
>
> Libertas: "Freedom" A Virtue which has been subsequently aspired to

>
> Nobilitas: "Noblility" Noble action within the public sphere.
>
> Ops: "Wealth" Acknowledgement of the prosperity of the Roman world.
>
> Patientia: "Endurance, Patience" The ability to weather storms and

>
> Pax: "Peace" A celebration of peace among society and between nations.
>
> Pietas: "Piety, Dutifulness" People paying honor to the gods.
>
> Providentia: "Providence, Forethought" The ability of Roman society

>
> Pudicita: "Modesty, Chastity." A public expression which belies the

>
> Salus: "Safety" Concern for public health and wellfare.
>
> Securitas: "Confidence, Security" Brought by peace and efficient

>
> Spes: "Hope" Especially during times of difficulty.
>
> Uberitas: "Fertility" Particularly concerning agriculture.
>
> within society and government.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Here is the document


I Get at least a dozen copies of netsky sent to me every day from the
pontifices@... mail alias along with assorted copies to my
drusus@brandxcomputers address, all of which still contain the virus.

Also not all of the mailing lists in Nova Roma are set up to block
attachments.

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Let us not forget the fact that any attachment sent to the NR main
list is erased by Yahoogroups.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:18 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Here is the document
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> This message is one of the ones generated by the Netsky Worm (Virus).
> The person who's address is listed here may not be the person who has
> the infected computer, but the number of netsky infected messages
> showing up in Nova Roma does mean that someone in Nova Roma has an
> infected Computer.
>
> If you are running a Computer that uses Microsoft Windows YOU COULD BE
> THE OWNER OF THE INFECTED COMPUTER.
>
> Microsoft Windows computers are subject to Virus infections, if you
> insist on running this Operating System you have to purchase an
> anti-virus program and pay for the updates to keep it current.
>
> Some Viruses can steal your personal information like credit card
> numbers. Others can be used to give a hacker remote control of your
> computer so that it can be used for sending SPAM or for illegal
> activities.
>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, curatrix@v... wrote:
> > Your document is attached.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salvete Omnes:
>
> For the record, Senator et Pontifex Drusus, Sabina Equitia is not a
> 'jerk'...she is a citizen with an opinion differing from yours. I am
> not sure where in this year's guidelines you are at liberty to make
> personal attacks, but I would ask you in good faith, Sir, to apologize
> to this citizen, in the name of the Religio and the virtues you
> officially pontificate.
>
> Monday is fine.
>
> Pompeia

>
> I'm also perplexed about the Mos Maiorum issue. As Troianus rightly

> out in the NRL list, that is not an objective concept. I'm sure the Mos
> Maiorum of the year 753 BC was something pretty different than the

> centuries later and that was again something different than the one

> CE. Between the three, which one should we follow? Who shall decide

> one has the priority? And what about the portion of Mos Maiorum that

> made it to present day or about which there is a degree of uncertainty?
>
> As much as I can tell, about some aspects of the Mos Maiorum there is
> dispute between academics, surely there is about several issues of

> right.

> I Get at least a dozen copies of netsky sent to me every day from the
> pontifices@... mail alias along with assorted copies to my
> drusus@brandxcomputers address, all of which still contain the virus.
>
> Also not all of the mailing lists in Nova Roma are set up
> to block
> attachments.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Drusus;
>
> I get bombarded with mail at censors@n... and tribunes@n...! Tons
of spam!
>
> Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 5/1/2004 6:22:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
drusus@b... writes:
>
> > I Get at least a dozen copies of netsky sent to me every day from the
> > pontifices@n... mail alias along with assorted copies to my
> > drusus@brandxcomputers address, all of which still contain the virus.
> >
> > Also not all of the mailing lists in Nova Roma are set up
> > to block
> > attachments.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Rose" <gfr@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Fusce, I've had enough


> G. Iulius Scaurus D. Constantino Fusco dicit.
>
> >Esteemed Iulius Scaurus
> >
> Don't call me "esteemed." You clearly don't esteem someone you accuse
> three paragraphs later of committing a fraud.
>
> >Ive read with attention your post and find it a magnificent
contradiction.
> >
> Unlike you, I've actually talked with the people who founded NR and I
> have studied its archives to discover exactly what NR was established to
> be. That, of course, it is a mere historicist fallacy in the view of
> your normative constitutional legalism.
>
> >On one side you say that Nova Roma has made a mistake to present itself
to the
> >people wishing to join, by not making clear enough how the Religion is,
> >effectively, the central core of what all Nova Roma is about.
> >For this reason, and fairness, we should start a debate about how to
solve the
> >issue and not be dishonest with teh ones in future wanting to join.
> >
> >Wheres the contradiction? Well, a post that seemingly wants to address a
matter
> >of fairness forgets a very, basic, essential and prioritary issue: what
about
> >the people who have *already* joined, who have contributed already with
their
> >energies and, at times, money, in the mistaken opinion (but mistaken
because,
> >as you admit, you have misrepresented Nova Roma and thus you are
responsible
> >for it.. and I mean you as you and the ones who share your views of
course, not
> >you alone) that Religio was a part, but only a part, of Nova Roma? Shall
you
> >give them their money back and the economical of their hours spent
working for
> >Nova Roma, given its impossible to give them back their time, from the
moment
> >you published the Constitution till now?
> >
>
> I did not write the constitution. I did not design the website. I have
> been a citizen for less than a year and a half. I have committed no
> fraud on anyone. It is you who are the liar. You gave me you word
> privately that you did not aim at disestablishing the Religio. And yet
> every word you write on this matter aims at weaseling an interpretation
> of the constitution based on a technical, lawyerly trick of treating the
> document as if it were written by a team of corporate lawyers instead of
> devout practitioners of the Religio with no legal training which aims at
> nothing short of marginalising the Religio completely so that you can
> have your
>
> "great, international,
> interracial, interreligious (and the Religio wouldnt by that be made
less, on
> the contrary) organization capable, considering the number of people
gifted of
> extreme enthusiasm, of superior education (that not only being a school
degree)
> and surely of averagely superior open-mindness, of great things, be it
> international study groups, international re-enactment meetings and so
on."
>
> You want Nova Roma to be everything to everyone, just so long as your
modernist, political-scientific-legalist notion of how everything should be
done prevails. The Religio wouldn't be less under such a system? Just how
damned stupid do you think I am? You wield the constitution as a weapon
against the mos maiorum and the most fundamental aspects of Roman
governance. You are nothing more than Lucius Appuleius Saturninus with a
law degree. You are, indeed, a "Constantinus" -- you, too, stand poised to
drive a sword through classical antiquity's heart like your imperial
namesake, only you use the subtle assassin's blade of legal sophistry.
>
> >And we are back at the core of the issue. It would be nice if people
would
> >realize that their own personal perspective about Nova Roma are
secondary,
> >included the ones of the founding fathers, once you put down in the
> >Constitution a sentence that, reading The primary functions of Nova Roma
shall
> >be to promote the study and practice of pagan Roman civilization, defined
as
> >the period from the founding of the City of Rome in 753 BCE to the
removal of
> >the altar of Victory from the Senate in 394 CE and encompassing such
fields as
> >religion, culture, politics, art, literature, language, and philosophy,
makes
> >the Religio just one, for how important and noble (as I never denied it
to be
> >and teh Constitution goes a great lenght in affirming), of the several
things
> >Nova Roma is about.
> >
> If I had you as a student in a historiography seminar, I'd flunk you
> instantly for this idiotic approach to textual criticism. The words only
> mean the one thing that a legalist's cramped neurons can encompass.
> Their history, their context, the men who wrote them, their intentions
> -- all that means nothing next to the sterile logic of a lawyer with a
> legal dictionary. An approach to law more alien to the way Romans
> understood jurisprudence I cannot imagine.
>
> >Therefore, while I share most of your ideas about micronations (the happy
case
> >of Sealand in fact shall hardly be allowed again), and I agree that
Religio is
> >important and is taken seriously in Nova Roma, I decisely reject your
statement
> >that it is central to the mission of Nova Roma, being only one of,
expressly,
> >seven main areas of focusing (fourteen, if you divide the study and the
> >practice). And I reject that, not because that's my personal opinion that
it
> >isn't so, but because it's the Constitution to explicitally deny it,
placing
> >the Religio among many other things of equal importance. Of course,
considering
> >your statement about constitutional matters and teh discussions and
analysys
> >about it, one is brought to make some considerations about the value you
seem
> >to give to the Constitution's lines that do not fit your view, and thats
> >extremely sad, even if understandable, given your position within Nova
Roma and
> >the Colelgium Pontificarum, that of course is not supposed to have the
most
> >unbiased view about Nova Roma and the Religio.
> >
>
> I reject your ahistorical, legalist-constitutionalist approach to the
> governance of Nova Roma. I'd oppose it as vigorously if I were a
> Christian or a Buddhist. I oppose it because it is a bastardised
> modernism which runs contrary to how Romans governed themselves and
> dealt with law.
>
> >Whats even sadder is that persisting in such a line of giving to the
Religio
> >the central and supreme importance in Nova Roma is of detriment to the
Res
> >Publica and will eventually strangle it. We could be a great,
international,
> >interracial, interreligious (and the Religio wouldnt by that be made
less, on
> >the contrary) organization capable, considering the number of people
gifted of
> >extreme enthusiasm, of superior education (that not only being a school
degree)
> >and surely of averagely superior open-mindness, of great things, be it
> >international study groups, international re-enactment meetings and so
on.
> >
> If the respublica is harmed by trying to govern it in accordance with
> the mos maiorum, then we should just shoot it in the head like the dying
> horse you'd beat it into. You would turn the respublica into a "we're
> vaguely interested in Roman things club." I'm rather more than vaugely
> interested in things Roman and I've got better things to do than be
> lectured on how NR should be run like the European Union by someone who
> thinks the proper place for the Religio Romana is on the mantel with all
> the other antique knick-knacks. If you want to tell someone how to write
> a constitution, write to Brussels. If for damned certain don't want a
> Nova Roma run like American constitutionalism, and I find Europeanist
> constitutionalism no more palatable.
>
> >What will you achieve, instead, trying to push the view (against the
> >Constitution) that the Religio is most if not all that Nova Roma is
about? A
> >little group of people united by a very important thing of course, but
unable
> >to confront themselves with the others and demonstrating this unability
by
> >forcing out the ones not sharing their orthodox view and cheering about
it.
> >You, apparently, are afraid of being belittled, ridiculized and
persecuted,
> >yet you are doing exactly what is needed to be treated as such, meaning
> >isolating yourselves. Once, *if*, you will have managed to alienate the
ones
> >like Gneus Carantus and expell, sooner or later, with more or less
"legal"
> >ways, the more stubborn ones who do not share your views, what shall you
be
> >left with? Livy would say a desert that you call peace. Of course you
might
> >very well enjoy to live in a desert, but then one doesnt understand your
> >striving for being recognized by the others, and your having opened this
place
> >to non Religio practitioners.
> >
>
> You are the one who is floating a novel constitutionalist theory with
> the intention of forcing Nova Roma to abandon the way it has done things
> since its founding You are the one who is using modernist methodology to
> force Nova Roma into your modernist straightjacket -- Oh, my, we've been
> acting unconstitutionally all along; how stupid of us; we need to change
> things right now because some lawyer says we must. Carantus, who never
> contributed a thing to NR but to bitch about it, left. As far as I am
> concerned, we lost _nothing_. I am not seeking ways to drive anyone out
> of NR. It would be entirely within my rights to place a motion before
> the Collegium Pontificum to invoke the Blasphemy Decretum against you --
> and in such an event I would be pleased to prosecute. It would be
> entirely within my rights to petition the senate to remove you
> immediately as Aedilis Urbis Romae for disrespect to the Religio. Have I
> done any of that? No. I have bent over backwards to afford the greatest
> possible freedom to diverse opinion. But I am very sick of being
> lectured by an historical ignoramus about how Nova Roma is engaging in
> fraud because it doesn't conduct itself exactly the way the
> idiosyncratic political philosophy of a lawyer dictates. We conduct
> ourselves rather closer to the way the Romans did than anything you
> propose. I am sick of the sneering tone you take toward the Religio and
> the Collegium Pontificum. There is no conspiracy of the Collegium to
> take over Nova Roma. There does appear to be a conspiracy to neuter the
> Religio and put it out to pasture so it doesn't interfere with turning
> Nova Roma into a role-playing-game-cum-antiquarian-society.
>
> >Now, Ive been a citizen for fours years, I did and do my little part in
Nova
> >Roma (admittedly, more in the real life Nova Roma than in the "virtual"
one,
> >still&), I confide in the Constitution and Im afraid I will always
oppose the
> >ones, like you in this case, trying to pass their own vision as THE
vision.
> >Change the Constitution, democratically with the mans it gives you to do
so,
> >but until then, dont smuggle your *vision* of Nova Roma, no matter how
> >followed it is, as Nova Roma, because until you will have 2/3 of the
people
> >changing the Constitution and the Senate with it, Nova Roma is, again,
about 
> >promote the study and practice of pagan Roman civilization, defined as
the
> >period from the founding of the City of Rome in 753 BCE to the removal of
the
> >altar of Victory from the Senate in 394 CE and encompassing such fields
as
> >religion, culture, politics, art, literature, language, and philosophy.
> >
>
> What a clever little piece of sophistry. The people who advocate Nova
> Roma governing itself as it always has now have to amend the
> constitution to keep it so. It's a brilliant lawyer's trick. Push it far
> enough and those of us you whom insult and revile as the perpetrators of
> fraud against our citizens and conspirators against the republic will
> finally lose our patience and treat you as the traitor to Nova Roma you
> seem aspiring to be.
>
> Scaurus
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A hierarchy of purposes


The person who posted this note is clearly demonstrating that they are not a
gentleman and cannot disagree with other citizens without descending to base
insults, especially when addressing a fellow citizen and a lady. Regardless of
the provocation or level of disagreement, a Southern gentleman does not act
the uncouth boor or the uncultured barbarian especially when they are
representing both the temporal and sacred offices of our organization. It is obvious
that the artificial shield of the Internet makes some people feel they cannot
be bothered with social politeness and manners. Were this a more genteel time,
I would feel inclined to give offense to this person and force them to resent
it, so we could settle the manner in a civilized manner.

F. Galerius Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A hierarchy of purposes


A difference of opinion is not a fact since it is usually based on the most
subjective of rationales--individual opinion. However, good manners can be
practiced regardless of how strong the disagreement may be. I will be the first
to admit that I have been goaded and stung into acting in an ungentlemanly
fashion from time to time by the sheer outrageous behavior and insulting behavior
of some members of the Nova Roman Senate. Normally, I would suppose that
most citizens expect a higher standard of behavior from those who represent
either the Senate or the Sacred Colleges but as you said; a fact is a fact no
matter how you dress it up. However, since you have given me an old adage, let me
return the favor.
A pig in a silk suit is still a pig.

F. Galerius Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Could anyone share with me what the Latin word DECVRSIO means?

> I was
> awarded a Roman coin at the Scottish Games on Saturday for my role as
> judge in the Roman presentations. I was awared a coin with the
> engraved image of Nero and on back of the coin are two engaved
> horses. The coin that I was awarded with is called a Sestertius. It
> was the main coin used for any major money transactions in the Roman
> Empire.

>The crowd rose as one -- Greens, Whites, Blues, and Reds -- and the
>shouting, cheering, stomping of their celebration continued unabated for
>a quarter of an hour. It was only with the greatest difficulty that the
>aediles finally quieted them so they could present the palma aurea to
>Euthymus. Scaurus had arranged for the victor to dine and spend a night
>of dalliance with the five most expensive members of the Prostitutes'
>Guild. But they refused him, handed back the purse, claiming that the
>honour was theirs, since none of them had ever bedded a demi-god before.
> I suppose there will be an Inexpugnabilis IV.

>
> Could anyone share with me what the Latin word DECVRSIO means?

> I was
> awarded a Roman coin at the Scottish Games on Saturday for my role as
> judge in the Roman presentations. I was awared a coin with the
> engraved image of Nero and on back of the coin are two engaved
> horses. The coin that I was awarded with is called a Sestertius. It
> was the main coin used for any major money transactions in the Roman
> Empire.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> A difference of opinion is not a fact since it is usually based on
the most
> subjective of rationales--individual opinion. However, good manners
can be
> practiced regardless of how strong the disagreement may be. I will
be the first
> to admit that I have been goaded and stung into acting in an
ungentlemanly
> fashion from time to time by the sheer outrageous behavior and
insulting behavior
> of some members of the Nova Roman Senate. Normally, I would suppose
that
> most citizens expect a higher standard of behavior from those who
represent
> either the Senate or the Sacred Colleges but as you said; a fact is
a fact no
> matter how you dress it up. However, since you have given me an old
adage, let me
> return the favor.
> A pig in a silk suit is still a pig.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Ave,
>
> Good manners, wait, if someone insults my faith am I supposed to

>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A hierarchy of purposes
>
>
> A difference of opinion is not a fact since it is usually based

> subjective of rationales--individual opinion. However, good

> practiced regardless of how strong the disagreement may be. I

> to admit that I have been goaded and stung into acting in an

> fashion from time to time by the sheer outrageous behavior and

> of some members of the Nova Roman Senate. Normally, I would

> most citizens expect a higher standard of behavior from those who

> either the Senate or the Sacred Colleges but as you said; a fact

> matter how you dress it up. However, since you have given me an

> return the favor.
> A pig in a silk suit is still a pig.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Your Hypocrisy is showing.
>
> Your need for manners didn't appear when Doris was ignoring polite
> requests to consider that her tirades were an insult to many of her
> fellow citizens deeply held religious beliefs, nor did it show up

> Carantus posted his venom directed at the Religio Romana.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> > A difference of opinion is not a fact since it is usually based on
> the most
> > subjective of rationales--individual opinion. However, good

> can be
> > practiced regardless of how strong the disagreement may be. I

> be the first
> > to admit that I have been goaded and stung into acting in an
> ungentlemanly
> > fashion from time to time by the sheer outrageous behavior and
> insulting behavior
> > of some members of the Nova Roman Senate. Normally, I would

> that
> > most citizens expect a higher standard of behavior from those who
> represent
> > either the Senate or the Sacred Colleges but as you said; a fact

> a fact no
> > matter how you dress it up. However, since you have given me an

> adage, let me
> > return the favor.
> > A pig in a silk suit is still a pig.
> >
> > F. Galerius Aurelianus
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> What would the Romans do in a situation like this? I do not know.

> Do we need a statement of purpose?

> purpose voted on and approved by the majority of citizens will be so
> watered-down as to be
> meaningless.

> I get bombarded with mail at censors@... and
> tribunes@...! Tons of spam!

> Having a viewpoint is one thing, presenting in a manner that shows
> ZERO respect for something that many of Nova Roma's citizens consider
> a Sacred Ritual is another mater entirely.
>
> Her posts were as offensive and intolarant as the Christian Bashing
> posts that you resigned your postion of Praetor over, and she
> continued to frame her arguments in offensive terms despite several
> requests that she consider that she was talking about her fellow
> citizens religous beliefs.

>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_cornelia"
> <scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > For the record, Senator et Pontifex Drusus, Sabina Equitia is not a
> > 'jerk'...she is a citizen with an opinion differing from yours. I am
> > not sure where in this year's guidelines you are at liberty to make
> > personal attacks, but I would ask you in good faith, Sir, to apologize
> > to this citizen, in the name of the Religio and the virtues you
> > officially pontificate.
> >
> > Monday is fine.
> >
> > Pompeia

> Good manners, wait, if someone insults my faith am I supposed to have good manners to them? If someone compares the holocaust to say consuming chicken, does that mean I should still have good manners for them? Sorry, but I don't buy into that PC touchy feely, oh please don't hurt my feelings world you obviously think exists! If one insults your beliefs you have full right to call a spade a spade. Drusus felt she was intolerant and disrespectful of his religion (which is the religion practiced by the ancients and the reason why NR was founded) and called her on it. That's perfectly acceptable, of course unless you have a double standard, something I have
> always complained about in NR.

>
> At any rate, Doris is not a 'jerk' and no Priestly powers condone you
> publicly calling her such.....and I think you owe her an apology.
> That she will get it? Well, you tell me..., maybe the Praetores will
> tell you....But you owe her, in my view.

> I was thinking that it would be interesting to bring back Latin as
> the common business language uniting the EEC. Perhaps this idea

> been thought about before; a revival would be wonderful,

> for us in NR.

----- Original Message -----
From: pompeia_cornelia
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Message 22890......


---Salve Druse:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Having a viewpoint is one thing, presenting in a manner that shows
> ZERO respect for something that many of Nova Roma's citizens consider
> a Sacred Ritual is another mater entirely.
>
> Her posts were as offensive and intolarant as the Christian Bashing
> posts that you resigned your postion of Praetor over, and she
> continued to frame her arguments in offensive terms despite several
> requests that she consider that she was talking about her fellow
> citizens religous beliefs.

As you wish...Christian bashing, also Wiccan and Isis bashing is
'apparently' entirely ok....becoming more and more within the current
'mos' ,divine forbid that someone should be denied their
'rights'......however, name calling is 'not' ok. And Doris is not a
Christian, a Wiccan or an Isis devotee to the best of my knowledge, if
that makes a difference somehow.

You forget that Taurinus (I assume you are referring to this short-
stay mercinary of less than a month and his assaults on the list in
2002) wanted the priests of Nova Roma to offer 'stuffies', yes
'stuffed animals' to the Gods. I didn't hear any members of the CP
exploding over that comment, amongst his other stuff. The closest
remark to any CP negativity he received was 'inflexible'...that is the
closet remark from any Pontiff who is making a great fuss about it
this year.

As Praetor I was mortified, but that was his opinion, and in the
absence of any official direction one way or the other from the
Collegium, I couldn't find the matter anything but 'an
opinion'...likewise I find Equitia's opinion an 'opinion'...She has a
problem with the slaughter of amimals and would rather offer 'flora'
rather than 'fawna'. She is not suggesting that we offer Elmo. This
Taurinus fellow tells the collegium basically, that 'they've got it
all wrong' in more than one area, and the Priestly reactions were so
weak, they barely had a pulse.

Ahh, if it had of been so easy that he called citizens a litany of
names after being warned...no, I know better than that.

At any rate, Doris is not a 'jerk' and no Priestly powers condone you
publicly calling her such.....and I think you owe her an apology.
That she will get it? Well, you tell me..., maybe the Praetores will
tell you....But you owe her, in my view.



Pompeia




>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_cornelia"
> <scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > For the record, Senator et Pontifex Drusus, Sabina Equitia is not a
> > 'jerk'...she is a citizen with an opinion differing from yours. I am
> > not sure where in this year's guidelines you are at liberty to make
> > personal attacks, but I would ask you in good faith, Sir, to apologize
> > to this citizen, in the name of the Religio and the virtues you
> > officially pontificate.
> >
> > Monday is fine.
> >
> > Pompeia


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