Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jun 9-17, 2004

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24620 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24621 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Hypatia of Alexandria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24622 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24623 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Names And Faces
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24624 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24625 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: De absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24626 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24627 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: De absentia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24628 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24629 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24630 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24631 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24632 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Spam Problems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24633 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24634 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Spam Problems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24635 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Spam Problems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24636 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24637 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24638 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24639 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24640 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24641 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24642 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Signa Romanorum search engine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24643 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24644 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24645 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24646 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24647 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24648 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24649 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24650 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24651 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24652 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24653 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: SPQR Rings UPDATE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24654 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: ante diem IV Idus Iuni
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24655 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24656 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24657 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24658 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: World tour about Pompei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24659 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Calendar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24660 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24661 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24662 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 51-1
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24663 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 51-1
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24664 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24665 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24666 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24667 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24668 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24669 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24670 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24671 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24672 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24673 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: E-Mail Test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24674 From: O. Flavius Pompeius Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Well wishes from the colony
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24675 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: pridie Idus Iunii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24676 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: improved
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24677 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Re: E-Mail Test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24678 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Temple of Minerva (was Re: [Nova-Roma] pridie Idus Iunii)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24679 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Re: Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24680 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: I'm back
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24681 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Idus Iunii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24682 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: I'm Back
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24683 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Report of Caerimonia Feria Quinquatra Minuscula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24684 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Senate email shut down?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24685 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Re: Senate email shut down?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24686 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24687 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Senate email shut down?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24688 From: Denise Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24689 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: XVII Kalendae Quinctilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24690 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24691 From: Petrus Domitianus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: oath of office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24692 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24693 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24694 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24695 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24696 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24697 From: vipasaniamagna Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24698 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24699 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24700 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: African soldiers patroled Hadrian's Wall
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24701 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24702 From: maria rotella Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24703 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24704 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24705 From: Samantha Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24706 From: Samantha Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24707 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24708 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24709 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24710 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium, Addition
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24711 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24712 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24713 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24714 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24715 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: CORRECTION: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24716 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: EDICTUM AEDILIS DE LUDIS TAUREI QUINQUENNALIBUS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24717 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24718 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: ante diem XVII Kalendae Quinctilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24719 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: (to senate) Roman Days Financial Report
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24720 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24721 From: Marcus Bianchius Antonius Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24722 From: Agrippina Modia Aurelia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24723 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24724 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24725 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24726 From: vipasaniamagna Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Province
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24727 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Province
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24728 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24729 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24730 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24731 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24732 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24733 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24734 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24735 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24736 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Religio Romana Survey
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24737 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Religio Romana Survey
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24738 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: ante diem XVI Kalendae Quinctilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24739 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24740 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24741 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24742 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24743 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24744 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24745 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24746 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24747 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24748 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24749 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24750 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24751 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24752 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24753 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Censor Suffectus Position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24754 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24755 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Articles on Roman Government - XIII - Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24756 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24757 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24758 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24759 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24760 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24761 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24762 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24763 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24764 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24765 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24766 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24767 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24768 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Comitia Centuriata Convened
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24769 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24770 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Allegation of Impropriety
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24771 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus and learning the Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24772 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24773 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24774 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24775 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24776 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: New file uploaded to Nova-Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24777 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24778 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: C
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24779 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24780 From: bsmith3121 Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Technical Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24781 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24782 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24783 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24784 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Technical Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24785 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Technical Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24786 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24787 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24788 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: MAGNA MATER PROJECT BULLETIN JUNE 2757 A.U.C.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24789 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24790 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24791 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24792 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: ante diem XV Kalendae Quinctilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24793 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus Position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24794 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Lost E-mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24795 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24620 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Salvete Omnes,
it's a pleasure for me to show you the latest photos about the
partecipation of some italian Nova Romans at Festival Occidente, a
wonderful re-enactment's event organized by La Compagnia delle Armi
e delle Arti close to Venice.

http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/occidente/index.html

The last week-end, the Legatus Italiae Alexander Solaris Draco and
Sempronia Solaria Messalina invited the Provincia Italia to this
wonderful festival, which hosted groups of several and different
cultures. There were Romans, Germans, Celts, Etruscs, etc. Everybody
in the same meeting and with a very fascinating friendship.
In the pics you could see Some of our Magistrates like Aedile Marcus
Iulius Perusianus and Propraetor Italiae Manius Constantinus
Serapio. And also Aurelia Iulia Pulchra, the former candidate
Aeilius Solaris Marullinus and Caius Ianus Flaminius.
I would suggest you to not loose Propraetor Serapio as sacerdos
fetialis starting the battle between Romans and Germans. And the
etrusc aruspex, a fascinating re-enactor.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24621 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Hypatia of Alexandria
Salve Octavia,

No, not by me. She was a great mind far ahead of her time but what
I'm indicating is that aside from the library, it was off and on a
hostile social environment for great minds like hers. Some Romans
also dreaded being posted there since many days were like Watts
after the Rodney King verdict. Actually, there is an article on the
net that equates the politics of her demise to the Rodney King and
modern situations:

Cyril of Alexandria

"Ten years after the death of Athanasius, the great champion of
faith in Christ as fully God, the bishopric of Alexandria was
bestowed on one Theophilus. He was a man of fiery temperament, and
ruthless and violent in the pursuit of what he conceived to be his
duty. Having obtained the consent of the government, he destroyed
pagan temples, and the monastaries of monks whose views differed
from his own. He is on the Egyptian (Coptic) and the Syrian
calendars, but not on most eastern or any western ones. Summary:
unpleasant but orthodox (Right but Repulsive). Upon his death in
412, he was succeeded by his nephew Cyril.

Cyril began his career as Bishop of Alexandria by showing himself to
be an ill-tempered, quarrelsome, hasty, and violent man. He shut the
churches of the Novatianists (a group of Christians who were
indistinguishable in doctrine and manner of worship from other
Christians, but who as descendants of those who had stood firm in
the persecutions 260 years earlier could have nothing to do with the
descendants of those who had not -- nearly a century earlier, the
emperor Constantine had disgustedly told their leader to set up a
ladder and climb to heaven by himself), he drove out the Jews, he
quarrelled with the imperial prefect Orestes, and with Orestes'
friend Hypatia, a distinguished neo-Platonist scholar. (Hypatia was
murdered by a mob. There is no evidence that Cyril was directly
guilty, but the murderers were persons who regarded him as their
leader.) In short, he made a bad beginning.

Then there arose a controversy over the relation between Christ's
Divinity and His Humanity. One view, associated with the name of
Nestorius, spoke of Jesus as a sinless man in whom the Spirit of God
fully dwelt, suggesting that the difference between Jesus and any
other good man was a matter of degree. (Jones is an almost sinless
man in whom the Spirit of God dwells almost fully. He is therefore
99% whatever Jesus is 100%.) This may not do justice to the subtlety
of the Nestorian position, but it is the danger that others saw in
it, and the Nestorians were unable to explain what safeguards their
position had against this danger. Cyril wrote learnedly and with
great logic and conviction against the Nestorian position, and was
largely instrumental in getting it condemned at the Council of
Ephesus in 431. Afterwards (surprisingly in view of his earlier
record), he worked to reconcile the two parties, and to bring many
of the less extreme Nestorians back into the fellowship of the
church. But it is as a theologian and a scholar, not as a bishop or
human-relations man, that Cyril is honored. I do not find him on any
Anglican calendars, and I think I know why.

But on the other hand....

As I was taking a cab back from the airport (thank you, William
Raspberry), the driver asked me, "What are you writing there?"

I said: "A biographical sketch of Cyril of Alexandria."

He said: "Not an altogether enthusiastic appraisal, right?"

I said: "Of course not."

He said: "That figures. What do people like you have against Cyril
anyway? Why can't you leave the guy alone? He was a great
theologian!"

I said: "He was a bigot and a tyrant. To start with, he forcibly
closed the churches of the Novatianists."

He said: "That was not a matter of forcing men to give up their
faith. The Novatianists held exactly the same beliefs as other
Christians in Egypt. They just couldn't stand to worship with others
whose ancestors had a less pure record than their own ancestors.
When the government integrated the public schools and made the
children of former slaveholders go to school with the children of
former slaves, did you wax indignant? I thought not!"

I said: "Next thing, you'll be defending the murder of Hypatia."

He said: "Last time I checked, there was no evidence that Cyril had
anything to do with the murder of Hypatia."

I said: "Not directly. But his sermons and denunciations created the
climate of hate that led to her murder."

He said: "Climate of hate, indeed. You guys always trot that out
when it suits you. After the Oklahoma City bombing, you said that
anyone who had complained about the government's actions in Waco was
guilty of creating a climate of hate that caused the bombings. When
an abortionist was shot, you said that anyone who talked about
abortion as the taking of innocent life was responsible for creating
a climate of hate that encouraged the shooting of abortionists. Do
you ever put the shoe on the other foot? Have you ever written a
column saying that people who complain about police brutality or
complain that blacks in the United States face systematic injustice
are responsible for creating a climate of hate that resulted in the
Los Angeles riots after the Rodney King trial or the Watts riots in
1965 or the Detroit riots in 1968? Do you say that people who raise
concerns about battered wives are responsible for creating a climate
of hatred that leads women to mutilate their husbands or set them on
fire while they are sleeping? Just when does this 'climate of hate'
argument apply and when doesn't it?"

I gave him less than my usual generous tip. If there's anything I
can't stand, it's an uppity cabdriver."

Article from Justus Anglican.org







--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix"
<christyacb@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Hope that my posting that link wasn't taken wrong. I posted it
> because she was an interesting person and an unusual woman for her
> time. Not because of her death, though that was unusual too.
> I just thought it might be interesting for anyone who hadn't
> heard of her.
>
> Valete,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus
(Michael
> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Thats an intersesting article and indeed a tradgedy but not
> unusual.
> > Sadly, even for its cosmopoliton make up and contributions to
> > Western society Alexandria was always a pest hole for the Romans
> > even before the Christian era. The diversity of Hellenism,
> Egyptian
> > Pagananism and Judiasm made the city a powder keg from what I've
> > read.
> >
> <SNIP>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24622 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Salve Fr. Apule Caesar,

Very nice pictures. It is always good to put names with faces. I
hope to do so in person one day.

Vale bene,

Gaius Popillius Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
> it's a pleasure for me to show you the latest photos about the
> partecipation of some italian Nova Romans at Festival Occidente, a
> wonderful re-enactment's event organized by La Compagnia delle
Armi
> e delle Arti close to Venice.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/occidente/index.html
>
> The last week-end, the Legatus Italiae Alexander Solaris Draco and
> Sempronia Solaria Messalina invited the Provincia Italia to this
> wonderful festival, which hosted groups of several and different
> cultures. There were Romans, Germans, Celts, Etruscs, etc.
Everybody
> in the same meeting and with a very fascinating friendship.
> In the pics you could see Some of our Magistrates like Aedile
Marcus
> Iulius Perusianus and Propraetor Italiae Manius Constantinus
> Serapio. And also Aurelia Iulia Pulchra, the former candidate
> Aeilius Solaris Marullinus and Caius Ianus Flaminius.
> I would suggest you to not loose Propraetor Serapio as sacerdos
> fetialis starting the battle between Romans and Germans. And the
> etrusc aruspex, a fascinating re-enactor.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24623 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Names And Faces
Salvete omnes,

I agree with the previous post. The subject of names and faces was
brought up before but again I'd like to remind my fellow citizens
that it would be great if most of us could get our pictures posted
in the Album Gentium. It is always great to put a face to a name.
Citizens should know however, which is the quikest way to do so. I
know that the administators of the site used to like to do numbers
of pictures all at once but the waiting time seemed to take forever.
Any suggestions?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24624 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Salvete omnes,

How do we get our photo onto the Album Civium? I have my pic on my
Profile, but don't know how to put the photo up on my citizen
profile...

valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I agree with the previous post. The subject of names and faces was
> brought up before but again I'd like to remind my fellow citizens
> that it would be great if most of us could get our pictures posted
> in the Album Gentium. It is always great to put a face to a name.
> Citizens should know however, which is the quikest way to do so. I
> know that the administators of the site used to like to do numbers
> of pictures all at once but the waiting time seemed to take forever.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24625 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: De absentia
Salve,

Due to macronational Hollidays, I will be problably absent until next
monday.

However, if situation heats too much, the Tribunes have my mobile
phone.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus TRP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24626 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Salvete Quirites,

Cato asks:
> How do we get our photo onto the Album Civium?

Since we don't currently have an active webmaster, you may have to wait
a bit. That said, I recommend you contact the active Censor (Censor
Quintilianus) to see if one of his scribes can help with this.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24627 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: De absentia
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Due to macronational Hollidays, I will be problably absent until
next
> monday.
>
> However, if situation heats too much, the Tribunes have my mobile
> phone.
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus TRP

Salve Fauste,

Watch out for excess beer and wine mi amice :-).

Vale,

C. Popillius Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24628 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Salvete,

For those of you who want your photo in the Album Civium, send it (sized not more than 150x150 pixels) to me at postumianus@... (that is, postumianus AT gmx DOT net), with your Nova Roman Name, and the name of your gens (I ask that you specify this so I can find you in the Album, and make sure the picture shows up correctly). Once your photo is in the Album, I will send a confirmation so you can see how things look. Your photo should be in the Album within 48 hours of your sending it, unless I inform you otherwise.

Valete,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24629 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Visiting Nova Britannia
Salvete Quirites;
I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of July
weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR talk!
bene valete
Arminia Fabiana Veriana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24630 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
AVETE OMNES

The Festival Occidente ("occidente" meaning western world) was
really great! We took part to the even with our gazebo. Many people
came asking about us, and in these very days we're getting much more
visits to our website.
Of course there was a lot of re-enactment. We had two battles
between Romans and Venets against Gauls and Germans. By the way I
was the Sacerdos Fetialis which officially declared war by throwing
Mars' spear into the enemy land. Several other citizens where
fighting in the legio, while Aelius Solaris Marullinus was a lictor
holding the fasces which preceded the Rix, the head of the Gauls
which surrendered and was granted the honours of war. Alexander
Solaris Draco was the director of the whole battle. But there were
many other citizens I didn't mention here: Sempronia Solaria
Messalina, Brettia Solaria Danica, Taurus, Spartacus, Hatriaticus,
Flaminius, Aurelia, and of course Marcus Iulus Perusianus as well!
There were more, but I can't remember their names now, sorry! ;-)
However, there was not only reenactment, of course. We organized a
lecture about Magna Mater and the Project we are following. People
were very interested and Nova Roma got congratulations on what we
are doing.

In September we are going to take part to another very important
event. We'll let you know, of course! ;-)

For the time being, enjoy the pictures about festival Occidente!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24631 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
C. Minucius Hadrianus FeliSalvex M. Arminiae Maior Fabianae Veranae S.P.D.

Salve.

If I'm not scheduled to work on the 17th I'd be game. I'll know my
schedule for next week on Monday. I'll forward your post to the Nova
Britannia list and see if we can scare up anyone else.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Rogator
Lictor
Legatus Regionis Massachusetts

M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana wrote:

> Salvete Quirites;
> I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of July
>weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
>Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR talk!
> bene valete
> Arminia Fabiana Veriana
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24632 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Spam Problems
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salve.

There has been a large influx of Spam on Yahoo Groups recently - just
about every group I belong to with an "open" membership (and I belong to
alot of groups) has been getting hit, and I would not be suprised if it
gets worse.

Perhaps Nova Roma should consider making it's official lists "members"
only, and only allow citizens or pending citizens to join? Other than
deleting spamers from the lists after the fact, I can't really see much
else we could do to address the issue. Just a thought - I'd like to hear
what others think on the matter.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24633 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Names And Faces
Salvete Omnes,
as former Scriba Curatoris Araneum, I'm able too to publish your
photo on your personal profile. The instructions are the same said
by Illustrus Caecilius Metullus. If I could help him, I'll heppy to
do it.
Please, send your pics at fraelov@... (fraelov at yahoo.it)

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Caecilius Metellus"
<postumianus@g...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> For those of you who want your photo in the Album Civium, send it
(sized not more than 150x150 pixels) to me at postumianus@g... (that
is, postumianus AT gmx DOT net), with your Nova Roman Name, and the
name of your gens (I ask that you specify this so I can find you in
the Album, and make sure the picture shows up correctly). Once your
photo is in the Album, I will send a confirmation so you can see how
things look. Your photo should be in the Album within 48 hours of
your sending it, unless I inform you otherwise.
>
> Valete,
>
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24634 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Spam Problems
Salve Gai Minuci, et salvete Quirites,

> There has been a large influx of Spam on Yahoo Groups recently - just
> about every group I belong to with an "open" membership (and I belong to
> alot of groups) has been getting hit, and I would not be suprised if it
> gets worse.
>
> Perhaps Nova Roma should consider making it's official lists "members"
> only, and only allow citizens or pending citizens to join?

It wouldn't solve the specific problem, which involves address spoofing.
We already place all new members of the mailing list on moderated
status by default when they join, and only take them off after they've
proven themselves to be real people who aren't going to cause trouble.
This takes care of the mass spammers who join mailing lists using some
bogus account to spew spam.

But the technique we've seen here in Nova Roma has involved 'spiders'
that scan Yahoo for the e-mail addresses of posters, and then spoofs the
From field of the spam with one of those addresses, so it appears that
the message came from someone who's already allowed to post here.
There's really not anything short of requiring the moderators to approve
every single message that would stop that.

Valete Quirites,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24635 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Spam Problems
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Gn. Equitio Marino S.P.D.

Salve.

Thanks for the response, I wasn't aware of spiders. It's pretty
frightening that an e-mail can be spoofed like that, though I suppose I
really shouldn't be suprised.

I just hope it remains on the nusiance level!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

>Salve Gai Minuci, et salvete Quirites,
>
>
> It wouldn't solve the specific problem, which involves address spoofing.
>
> We already place all new members of the mailing list on moderated
>status by default when they join, and only take them off after they've
>proven themselves to be real people who aren't going to cause trouble.
>This takes care of the mass spammers who join mailing lists using some
>bogus account to spew spam.
>
>But the technique we've seen here in Nova Roma has involved 'spiders'
>that scan Yahoo for the e-mail addresses of posters, and then spoofs the
> From field of the spam with one of those addresses, so it appears that
>the message came from someone who's already allowed to post here.
>There's really not anything short of requiring the moderators to approve
>every single message that would stop that.
>
>Valete Quirites,
>
>-- Marinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24636 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-09
Subject: Re: Ludi
Fl Vedius Germanicus Fr. Apulo Caeso S.P.D.



(One of these days I�ll get my Latin declensions right. I don�t think today is that day. Apologies.)



My thanks for your thoughts on my ideas regarding real-world ludii.



If I may boil down your objections to their salient points (and I know in doing so I know I am probably missing some nuances), it seems that in particular, you are saying:



1) Nova Roma is international, and it would be impossible to bring all the Cives together in one place to attend any ludii, and

2) For anyone to organize real-world ludii would be prohibitively expensive



You offer a possible solution to point 1) in saying that we could organize an annual �rally� where at least a goodly number of cives could be expected to attend (I would argue that we would still fall far short of a majority, but that�s not a reason not to do it).



That�s my understanding of what you�re saying, and my following comments are based thereon. If I got your meaning wrong, my apologies.



If I may take the last point first, I think having an annual get-together is a TERRIFIC idea. Indeed, during my second Consulship, I recall proposing just such a thing, but it never panned out. Something that would move from province to province, giving more people an opportunity to get to something big at least once every couple of years without having to travel thousands of miles, is a great idea. WorldCon for Nova Roma! I�m not sure it would be best to have that be under the purview of the Consuls or Aediles, since it would be a nation-wide gathering, but that�s a detail that can be worked out. (I think every province should do at least one such provincial gathering a year, as well, by the way!)



Now, to address your first point as I perceive it, I don�t see any reason why the celebration of ludii must necessarily be something that everyone in Nova Roma can participate in or witness. Even if there are only a handful of witnesses to a given ludus, the mere fact that it was staged, and particularly was done so properly (remember a ludus is a religious ceremony, after all) on behalf of the Republic would, I think, be sufficient. Of course, if there are photographs (or, even better, video!) so that those of us unable to attend can at least participate vicariously, so much the better. Eventually, a live video stream would be the ideal solution (and that goes for sacrifices too, by the way, pontifices!), but let�s not get ahead of ourselves.



Now, to take the final remaining point; the expense.



You are entirely right.



It is a very expensive proposition to put on horse-races, or chariot races. (Until such time, of course, as we have a Sodalitas dedicated to such things, which would presumably have access to its own horses and equipment, but once more that�s way off in the future.) However, I would point out that there are different sorts of ludii that could be staged. The reading of poetry, or the performance of drama. Gymnastic competition. Gladiatorial combats (which are, admittedly, late in our period to apply to ludii, but still well within it) have some expense involved for equipment, but that�s a one-time expense. Such things don�t cost much, and could be as much fun to practice for as they are to undertake.



Here�s something of a germ of an idea, not fully formed by any means. What if there formed a sort of unwritten tradition that, to take one example, Nova Caesaria (New Jersey, part of the Mediatlantica provincial) did the Ludii Romanii? And Roma did the Ludii Plebii? And Britannia did another? And so forth? If there were active local groups in those places, it could be doable, and with minimal funding (as long as we kept things horse-free initially). It might also give those local groups something to focus on (�Next week we�re doing our rehearsal for Plautus� �The Haunted House� that we�re performing for the Ludii Romanii! Let�s be ready, people!�)



I guess my point is that things can be done locally on behalf of the entire Republic, and the things that are done don�t need to be the most expensive things on the menu. We are still growing, and there are doubtless thousands of things that we will need to grow into. Even if not everyone can be present, we can all see pictures, or videos.



Rather than saying it�s too big to do completely right from the outset, so let�s do nothing, I think we are better served by saying let�s do what we can now, and lay the groundwork for what we shall doubtless be able to in the future.



Vale,



Flavius Vedius Germanicus,

Pater Patriae



-----Original Message-----
*From:* FAC [mailto:sacro_barese_impero@...]
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 09, 2004 7:36 AM
*To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi



Salve Germanicus,
I agree with you, we need in each field of NR more real activities.
This is what we're doing in Provincia Iitalia and we noted that the
active partecipation and relationships between citizens and the
recruitment is going to grow when we organize something face-to-
face. This shoudl be the first and most important goal of all the
Provinciae and of NR.

I ever like the idea of real Ludi, sports and live shows. However I
give you my opinions haveing two years of experience in aedilician
offices. I could claim to be one of the inventors of the virtual
nova roman Ludi with Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and Gnaeus Salix
Galaicus. ;-)
I like them but I think too they're closer to RPG than to the
original Ludi. And I noted that the people is tired of this kind of
games after 3 years. So I started to think to alternative events...
I agree with you about the interesting and fascinating idea of live
Ludi, but I disagree that we would start to organize something.

First of all NR is a world organization within members from each
Nations. This means that if I'm an Aedile ad I organize live Ludi
with live combats, I would organize them in my land. The number of
partecipants to this Ludi could be a maximum of 5-6. This aren't
popular Ludi for the people ... this are festival for few people.
And this is not a duty of an elected Aedile.

Secondly the organization of live games is very expansive. Nobody
know that when I was Curule Aedile I thought to organize live Ludi
Circenses. I asked for horses in rent and for the production of
charriots. I can claim that never I could organize them: 3 horses
coasted 1500-2000 euro per day, 250 euro per charriots and you have
to add the health of the horses, the circus, the public protectiona
nd sanity for the people and the animals, etc. Everything for 5-6
Nova Romans ... ;-)

An alternative to the first point in my opinion is organize
international Rally like Quintilianus did during the summer 2002 and
liek I did the last year in Italy. During this rallies the aedile
could mix the meeting and the shows in just one event. But this
would be only an optional or go in parallel with the daily job of an
Aedile.

Me, Perusianus and another young pannonian citizen was working to a
special project for the Ludi Circenses, something of most realistic
and fascinating. Virtual but closer to the reality. We breaked it
the last month, but I hope to re-start it as soon as possible.

In any way, as former Aedile and lover of live roman events, I would
offer you my collaboration to future live projects.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24637 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Flavio Vedio Germanico SPD

Sorry if I manage to reply only today... work and such at times leave no
spare time whatsoever (but do not worry Gneus Iuluius Caesar, I'll always
find time in the end, despite your ungraceful wishes for me to move away).

I do not mind at all if my posts are used as "spring-boards" (see, I even
get to learn new words) and sure can't but be flattered if that particular
one was of inspiration, besides I do agree with you that more RL is needed.
After all, I'm one of the aediles of the full fledged Oppidum, and not by
chance (also, there are actually two oppida right now, the other is in Spain
and has a slightly larger number of cives, too).

On the other side, I believe that one has to work with what is in his hands.
My comments about why August wouldn't be a good month to hold the ludi came
from the fact that the matter was to decide when having "online" ludi. In
that regard, I think it would be generally better to have them when the
greatest number of cives could partecipate and that shouldn't ring any alarm
bell, I think, as it was just an answer balanced on a specific question. If
one had asked when is the best time to hold "rl" ludi, I'd say depends where
you want to have them... in Europe probably the best time would be around
Easter: schools and universities closed and not impossible for the working
cives to get a couple of days off, hotels slightly cheaper than in summer,
greater chances to get discounted flights.

Now, about RL Ludi. Yes, we should have them, yet we should also know a
problem about it. NR is spread over five continents.. now that's great and
all, but poses some great logistic problems. Online "events" have the bad
side of being just virtual, but the good side of getting, potentially, all
the cives together and create a sense of community. Also. moving to RL and
giving it the greatest focus will, eventually, split NR in at least 2
halves... US and Europe (and I apologize with the cives living in the other
continents, I do not mean to ignore you, just focusing on the two largest
"groups") with European Cives going to the European events and American to
American events. Now, it is a feeling of mine (but just a "skin" feeling,
mind you) that the American and European attitudes in NR are (wild
generalization here, mind you) a tad different. By focusing in the
organization of rl events that, necessarily, will separate even physically
the cives, the differences will surface in an even stronger way.

Shouldn't we, then, organize RL events? By all means, we should, but I think
that some sort of "unifying" events should be still organized and should be
regarded as important as well, and those kind of events will have to be
necessarily, at least until someone will put on the market the Start Trek
beamer, online. Regarding the internet activities with a minimum of
interactivity as "RP" means to cut out all the cives that, for various
reasons, will seldom or will never be able to take a plane for the States or
for wherever in Europe the RL events will take place. I do not like too much
the idea of "first division" cives being the ones who have the means and
time to travel around and "second division" cives being the ones who cannot
for lack of money and time. In that regard, online events are democratic:
everyone can take part in them no matter what.

There's also another problem in RL ludi: language. Just a handful of us can
hold their own with written latin, much less with spoken latin. English,
while being way more widely known, still poses a problem for a good
percentage of the non-American population.

Also, there are some activities that have been little explored within NR
which are, still, internet based, but definitely worth a try, in my opinion.
One could be Research Groups, meaning groups of 3-5 cives getting together
(virtually) and focusing their attention on a specific issue related to
romanity in order to put together an essay for either publication (hard) or
just to keep on NR website (which actually *is* publication, even if in a
non-profit form). Such activities would have a huge return to NR: first
*doing* something together, even if just virtually, creates bonds among the
cives, secondly, if enough material is produced, NR might become something
to present to academics or rather to present it in a better way, thirdly it
would, in any case, be an occasion to learn things that otherwise would be
generally little known.

Vale Bene

DCF

PF Constantinia
Aedilis Urbis
Curator of the Codex Juris Novae Romae Constantini
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24638 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
M.Arminia Maior Fabiana Caio Minucio Hadriano Felico SPD

Excellent, what's the point of travel if you cannot meet up with
Nova Romani; I'm looking forward to it.
bene vale,
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
(the proper form for adoptions according to my good friend Cordus)
>
>

If I'm not scheduled to work on the 17th I'd be game. I'll know my
> schedule for next week on Monday. I'll forward your post to the
Nova
> Britannia list and see if we can scare up anyone else.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
> Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
> Rogator
> Lictor
> Legatus Regionis Massachusetts
>
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana wrote:
>
> > Salvete Quirites;
> > I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of
July
> >weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
> >Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR
talk!
> > bene valete
> > Arminia Fabiana Veriana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24639 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
Salve Fusce,

How do you see the American and European views on NR being
different?

Vale
Gn. Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24640 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salve Illustrus Germanicus,

> Fl Vedius Germanicus Fr. Apulo Caeso S.P.D.
>
> (One of these days I'll get my Latin declensions right. I don't
think today is that day. Apologies.)

Don't worry, I understand it ;-)

> My thanks for your thoughts on my ideas regarding real-world ludii.

Thank you too for your attenction, I would answer to your comments.

> If I may boil down your objections to their salient points (and I
know in doing so I know I am probably missing some nuances), it
seems that in particular, you are saying:
>
> 1) Nova Roma is international, and it would be impossible to
bring all the Cives together in one place to attend any ludii, and

Almoust correct.

> 2) For anyone to organize real-world ludii would be
prohibitively expensive

Correct

> You offer a possible solution to point 1) in saying that we could
organize an annual "rally" where at least a goodly number of cives
could be expected to attend (I would argue that we would still fall
far short of a majority, but that's not a reason not to do it).

This is not a possible solution, we're doing it now. Former Curule
Aedile Quintilianus started with the meeting in Tongeren (Belgium),
I continued with a Rally in Bologna (Italy). The 2004 Rally will be
in Segovia (Spain) but it isn't organized by an Aedile. However I
knew that IUlius Scaurus was thinking to do one in USA and Iulius
Perusianus a little meeting in Rome.

> If I may take the last point first, I think having an annual get-
together is a TERRIFIC idea. Indeed, during my second Consulship, I
recall proposing just such a thing, but it never panned out.
Something that would move from province to province, giving more
people an opportunity to get to something big at least once every
couple of years without having to travel thousands of miles, is a
great idea. WorldCon for Nova Roma! I'm not sure it would be best to
have that be under the purview of the Consuls or Aediles, since it
would be a nation-wide gathering, but that's a detail that can be
worked out. (I think every province should do at least one such
provincial gathering a year, as well, by the way!)

Pater, I think we're talking about the same topic :-)
What we organized was a a couple of international meetings with
shows, tours, fights, discussions, etc. It's easy to suppose that
in 2003 in Italy we'ld had citizens from the closer Provinciae. But
we were very happy to see Illustri cives coming from Sweden and
Finland.
This means that we could strongly invite the Provinciae to organize
annual meetings in each continent (North-America, South-America,
Europe, Australia, etc.) under the supervision of the Aediles, the
magistrates historically assigned to this kind of activities.
In my jobs as Aedile and Propraetor I noted that the meetinf face-to-
face are one of the most important point for the growth of NR. I
think to be friend of each citizen meeting directly because the
virtual nova roman communications are too "cold". So IMHO NR should
put the live meetings in the first 3 places of our long list of
goals.

(I'm quite lucky because in Italy we have 3-4 meetings per year.
During this year we met yet 2 times and we are planning other two
meetings in September. Unlucky all the events are organized in the
north of my Provincia, quite far from my city. So sadly sometime I'm
forced to be asbent in soem rallies.)

> Now, to address your first point as I perceive it, I don't see any
reason why the celebration of ludii must necessarily be something
that everyone in Nova Roma can participate in or witness. Even if
there are only a handful of witnesses to a given ludus, the mere
fact that it was staged, and particularly was done so properly
(remember a ludus is a religious ceremony, after all) on behalf of
the Republic would, I think, be sufficient. Of course, if there are
photographs (or, even better, video!) so that those of us unable to
attend can at least participate vicariously, so much the better.
Eventually, a live video stream would be the ideal solution (and
that goes for sacrifices too, by the way, pontifices!), but let's
not get ahead of ourselves.

Honestly I disagree. Yes, I agree, the Ludi are religious
celebrations but they're public. This means that they would be
organized for the public, the people. And trying to see them on a
political side, the Aedile is elected from the people and he must to
serve the Res Publica and the citizens. If he organized Ludi in
Kenya and only 5 cives partecipated because nobody could travel for
so many KMs, IMHO he didn't accomplished fully his duties as Aedile.
As Magistrate he must to serve the majority of the people and his
electors.
Yes, Of course, the Ludi are religious events and the most important
point is their correct celebration, but you know that in the Ancient
Rome they had social roles too. They were used to celebrate, to
soddisfy the public, to honourate the glory of a God or of a
magistrate, to rule and normalyze the society, to sacrifice
the "rei", etc. They are religious events, but f you see them only
as religious events,

Pics of the Ludi are not enough for my needs of games as Roman ;-)
As common citizen if I give my vote to a candidate, I want he
accomplish his duties when he'll elect. And if he organize Ludi in
Japan for 4 cives and the partecipation is impossible, I'm quite
sure he didn't accomplished his job ;-)

Streaming video are a great idea, it would be fascinating to see
live events directly on the web. However as professionist of this
field I know that this kind of technologic features is not common
and easy and cheap. The Aedile would be informatics and able to
raise cameras and firewall capture tools and to have advanced
internet and server skills. Very far for the actual situation ... ;-)

> Now, to take the final remaining point; the expense.
>
> You are entirely right.
>
> It is a very expensive proposition to put on horse-races, or
chariot races. (Until such time, of course, as we have a Sodalitas
dedicated to such things, which would presumably have access to its
own horses and equipment, but once more that's way off in the
future.) However, I would point out that there are different sorts
of ludii that could be staged. The reading of poetry, or the
performance of drama. Gymnastic competition. Gladiatorial combats
(which are, admittedly, late in our period to apply to ludii, but
still well within it) have some expense involved for equipment, but
that's a one-time expense. Such things don't cost much, and could be
as much fun to practice for as they are to undertake.

I full agree with you. Of course, the chariot races are the most
fascinating and popular games, the people love them. However it's
possible to organize little sport events and drama shows with few
expanses.
A possible idea could be raise funds at sponsors and adv. It's could
be useful for a boutique or little enterprise see the logo in a
public and special sport event.
Or think to create a little nova roman account for very little
remboursements.

> Here's something of a germ of an idea, not fully formed by any
means. What if there formed a sort of unwritten tradition that, to
take one example, Nova Caesaria (New Jersey, part of the
Mediatlantica provincial) did the Ludii Romanii? And Roma did the
Ludii Plebii? And Britannia did another? And so forth? If there were
active local groups in those places, it could be doable, and with
minimal funding (as long as we kept things horse-free initially). It
might also give those local groups something to focus on ("Next week
we're doing our rehearsal for Plautus' "The Haunted House" that
we're performing for the Ludii Romanii! Let's be ready, people!")

I again agree with you. I think that NR must to "stress" this field
increasing the range of activities by the local groups. The Lex
Fabia de Oppida created a good base for the creation and
organization of local active groups. Now we have to increase it and
create opportunities and activities for this groups. They could be
the new heart of NR.
I think you understood well that in my opinion the live activities
and the growth of the local groups are one of the most important
goals of NR ;-)

> I guess my point is that things can be done locally on behalf of
the entire Republic, and the things that are done don't need to be
the most expensive things on the menu. We are still growing, and
there are doubtless thousands of things that we will need to grow
into. Even if not everyone can be present, we can all see pictures,
or videos.

Again, I agree for the local Ludi overlooked and managed by the
Aediles with little axpanses. However I disagree this is the only
solution for the reasons written on the top. The local groups are
great only if any region'ld have one. If a region haven't it, this
couldn't be in the only solution.

> Rather than saying it's too big to do completely right from the
outset, so let's do nothing, I think we are better served by saying
let's do what we can now, and lay the groundwork for what we shall
doubtless be able to in the future.

I think nobody here (or of course the former and actual Aediles
since 3 years ago) is thinking "let's do nothing". Everybody (and
Aedile are one of the firsts) are involved in some projects, have
expanses, give to NR time and money. I think the spot "let's do what
we can now" is old now, we are claiming it from many time and I
remember that this is what I have read when I joined NR in '99.
Now it's the time to claim "We're doing, let's do more and more and
in a best way". In teh past we did the live Ludi, the virtual Ludi,
the internation meetings, the RPGs, etc. now what we could to do?
We are seeing about today and tomorrow, I ever see to the day after
tomorrow, because our common claim should be "the best growth for
our organization".

Vale
FR. Apulus CAesar
Senator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24641 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
Gaius Modius Athanasius Fr. Apulo Caeser salutem dicit

Thank you for posting this! I love photographs, and think it is great that you can have these activities in Italia.

Vale;

Gaius Modius

In a message dated 6/9/2004 11:47:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

> it's a pleasure for me to show you the latest photos about the
> partecipation of some italian Nova Romans at Festival Occidente, a
> wonderful re-enactment's event organized by La Compagnia delle Armi
> e delle Arti close to Venice.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/occidente/index.html
>
> The last week-end, the Legatus Italiae Alexander Solaris Draco and
> Sempronia Solaria Messalina invited the Provincia Italia to this
> wonderful festival, which hosted groups of several and different
> cultures. There were Romans, Germans, Celts, Etruscs, etc. Everybody
> in the same meeting and with a very fascinating friendship.
> In the pics you could see Some of our Magistrates like Aedile Marcus
> Iulius Perusianus and Propraetor Italiae Manius Constantinus
> Serapio. And also Aurelia Iulia Pulchra, the former candidate
> Aeilius Solaris Marullinus and Caius Ianus Flaminius.
> I would suggest you to not loose Propraetor Serapio as sacerdos
> fetialis starting the battle between Romans and Germans.
> And the
> etrusc aruspex, a fascinating re-enactor.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24642 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Signa Romanorum search engine
avete omnes,

on the Signa Romanorum website is now available a search engine to
find strings inside the pages.

Just try it at:
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum/ricerca.htm

Type the word you are looking for and you'll find the pages where the
word is in. The engine is case-insensitive and you can use also a
part of the word. If the string is between quotation marks, the
engine is then case-sensitive. You can also search for two words at
the same time: just separete them with a comma.

thanks
valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24643 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Provincia Italia at Occidente
avete omnes,

>We organized a lecture about Magna Mater and the Project we are
>following. People were very interested and Nova Roma got
>congratulations on what we are doing.

thanks Serapio amice for reminding this. The MM project is moving its
first steps outside the Nova Roma. This was our second lecture after
the one held a couple of months ago in Pisa. :-)

After Occidente, the great festival that some Italic citizens and
myself attended this last weekend, I'm more convinced than ever: NR
needs vis-a-vis contacts to improve.
It's a great experience, a full-immersion event when you can exchange
hundreds of multimedia messages with your fellows, compared with our
usual way of communication which are the emails.

I briskly invite you, people of NR, to gather wherever is possible
and as much as possible with other NRomans or people with our same
values. Such events in Italy are increasing and we are trying to do
attend them or have meetings in a local basis (i.e. our Urbs
group).This is totally changing (for better) our way of considering
ourselves as Nova Romans.

valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Gaius Modius Athanasius Fr. Apulo Caeser salutem dicit
>
> Thank you for posting this! I love photographs, and think it is
great that you can have these activities in Italia.
>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius
>
> In a message dated 6/9/2004 11:47:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sacro_barese_impero@l... writes:
>
> > it's a pleasure for me to show you the latest photos about the
> > partecipation of some italian Nova Romans at Festival Occidente,
a
> > wonderful re-enactment's event organized by La Compagnia delle
Armi
> > e delle Arti close to Venice.
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/occidente/index.html
> >
> > The last week-end, the Legatus Italiae Alexander Solaris Draco
and
> > Sempronia Solaria Messalina invited the Provincia Italia to this
> > wonderful festival, which hosted groups of several and different
> > cultures. There were Romans, Germans, Celts, Etruscs, etc.
Everybody
> > in the same meeting and with a very fascinating friendship.
> > In the pics you could see Some of our Magistrates like Aedile
Marcus
> > Iulius Perusianus and Propraetor Italiae Manius Constantinus
> > Serapio. And also Aurelia Iulia Pulchra, the former candidate
> > Aeilius Solaris Marullinus and Caius Ianus Flaminius.
> > I would suggest you to not loose Propraetor Serapio as sacerdos
> > fetialis starting the battle between Romans and Germans.
> > And the
> > etrusc aruspex, a fascinating re-enactor.
> >
> > Valete
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24644 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi
G. Equitius Cat D. Constantino Fusco F. Vedio Germanico S.P.D.

salvete, virii.

Vedius, I think the idea of each Province sponsoring a set of ludi
each year is excellent; Fuscus, I think that the differences you
mention might actually work to the benefit of all involved. Where
English may be a problem, it would force those of us who speak
English to help our fellow-citizens understand it (hey, you just
learned "spring board" :-) ), and conversely, our non-English-
speakers could help those of us who struggle with a second (or third)
language to hone our speaking skills. We might have to keep Latin as
the "official" language, as was in fact practiced at least in the
imperial period, while utilizing our indigenous tongues for everyday
use (or use at the various ludi).

If there were "set" orders of ludi around the world, vacationing Nova
Romans could even plan to visit specifically to enjoy them; I for
instance would love to go to Italy to see the local group run around.

valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24645 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior Flavi Vedi Germanice salutem dicit


I like the idea to go out and set ludi in the RL. I was looking around a bit here in Provincia Germania and we have a very nice place where we can run such events or just enjoy other ludi and roman things. And there are also lots of other people.

Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xanten)

If you like I can ask to use the Amphitheatrum too. This ancient city offers interested people a lot of various things.


A bit about Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xantan) the Roman town in the lower Rhine area.

Xanten has become a treasure trove for archeologists because it is the only Roman town north of the Alps which has not been built over since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Its ground plan has remained intact under the fields and pastures. Nowadays it is not only a place where archeologists are employed.

In addition, the results of their excavations have been reconstructed on a scale of 1:1 over the original foundations and since 1977 the Rhineland Landscape Association has made them accessible to the public in the Xanten Archeological Park.


You can find a reconstructed taverna too andenjoy original roman food and mulsum
(no, no ... mulsum and food are not 2000 yrs old ;-) )


I think this can be a great place to set some RL ludi and other activities and as said above lots of roman interested people are there too.

http://www.lvr.de/fachdez/kultur/museen/apx/ (sorry, they have a German site only)


But let's hear other opinions. What are you thinking about?


Vale
Ph. Flavius Conservatus Maior

_______________________________________________________________________
Moechten Sie Ihre SMS noch ausdrucksstaerker und emotionaler gestalten?
Fuegen Sie einfach ein Bild hinzu! http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021194
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24646 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salve Phillipe Flavi;
with such an excellent site, it sounds wonderful; perhaps Germania
would like to be the meeting place of next years Conventus (old
European Rally).
bene vale




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <philipp.hanenberg@w...> wrote:
> Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior Flavi Vedi Germanice salutem
dicit
>
>
> I like the idea to go out and set ludi in the RL. I was looking
around a bit here in Provincia Germania and we have a very nice place
where we can run such events or just enjoy other ludi and roman
things. And there are also lots of other people.
>
> Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xanten)
>
> If you like I can ask to use the Amphitheatrum too. This ancient
city offers interested people a lot of various things.
>
>
> A bit about Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xantan) the Roman town in the
lower Rhine area.
>
> Xanten has become a treasure trove for archeologists because it is
the only Roman town north of the Alps which has not been built over
since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Its ground plan has remained
intact under the fields and pastures. Nowadays it is not only a place
where archeologists are employed.
>
> In addition, the results of their excavations have been
reconstructed on a scale of 1:1 over the original foundations and
since 1977 the Rhineland Landscape Association has made them
accessible to the public in the Xanten Archeological Park.
>
>
> You can find a reconstructed taverna too andenjoy original roman
food and mulsum
> (no, no ... mulsum and food are not 2000 yrs old ;-) )
>
>
> I think this can be a great place to set some RL ludi and other
activities and as said above lots of roman interested people are
there too.
>
> http://www.lvr.de/fachdez/kultur/museen/apx/ (sorry, they have a
German site only)
>
>
> But let's hear other opinions. What are you thinking about?
>
>
> Vale
> Ph. Flavius Conservatus Maior
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
_
> Moechten Sie Ihre SMS noch ausdrucksstaerker und emotionaler
gestalten?
> Fuegen Sie einfach ein Bild hinzu! http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021194
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24647 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites;
> I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of
July
> weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
> Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR
talk!
> bene valete
> Arminia Fabiana Veriana

Salve,

Unfortunately with the 17th being on a Thursday, that date is out of
the question due to work. However the 5th is doable.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24648 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salvete,

Some quick thoughts on this,

Perhaps we could divide Nova Roma into regions, ie,
Region 1 Eastern North America.
Region 2 Northern Europe.
Region 3 Western North America.
Region 4 Southern Europe.

I'm not certain how many civies we have outside these 4 regions, but
the vast majority are in them. As the population grows we could add
more regions, say Region 5 might be South America.

Each Year Nova Roma could stage a "Roman Days" type event in one of
the regions running through them in numerical order. If next year we
held the event in Region one, the the following year it would be in
region two, region three the year after that, etc.

Ludi could be included in these events. I would prefer that the games
be as historic as possible, but I would even consider a modern game of
football to be an improvement over virtual games. Last year's virtual
murder of a virtual contestant in the virtual races convinced me that
the virtual games had gone way too far in the direction of roleplaying
and that any real games, even modern ones, would be an improvement.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
<germanicus@g...> wrote:

>
> If I may take the last point first, I think having an annual
get-together is a TERRIFIC idea. Indeed, during my second Consulship,
I recall proposing just such a thing, but it never panned out.
Something that would move from province to province, giving more
people an opportunity to get to something big at least once every
couple of years without having to travel thousands of miles, is a
great idea. WorldCon for Nova Roma! I'm not sure it would be best to
have that be under the purview of the Consuls or Aediles, since it
would be a nation-wide gathering, but that's a detail that can be
worked out. (I think every province should do at least one such
provincial gathering a year, as well, by the way!)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24649 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Salve Calve;
wonderful, it will be nice to finally meet in person and not just
online at the Censor's list & we can have a long dark laugh about
Roman Naming practices;-) Hadrianus does that work for you?
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@c...>
wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana"
> <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites;
> > I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of
> July
> > weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
> > Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR
> talk!
> > bene valete
> > Arminia Fabiana Veriana
>
> Salve,
>
> Unfortunately with the 17th being on a Thursday, that date is out
of
> the question due to work. However the 5th is doable.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24650 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Modern Gladiator games would be fantastic. Since we really can not fight with real weapons we could use "boffer" weapons. This is not 100% true to form but it is a good start. I would gladly through my name into the list. :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 4:06 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi


Salvete,

Some quick thoughts on this,

Perhaps we could divide Nova Roma into regions, ie,
Region 1 Eastern North America.
Region 2 Northern Europe.
Region 3 Western North America.
Region 4 Southern Europe.

I'm not certain how many civies we have outside these 4 regions, but
the vast majority are in them. As the population grows we could add
more regions, say Region 5 might be South America.

Each Year Nova Roma could stage a "Roman Days" type event in one of
the regions running through them in numerical order. If next year we
held the event in Region one, the the following year it would be in
region two, region three the year after that, etc.

Ludi could be included in these events. I would prefer that the games
be as historic as possible, but I would even consider a modern game of
football to be an improvement over virtual games. Last year's virtual
murder of a virtual contestant in the virtual races convinced me that
the virtual games had gone way too far in the direction of roleplaying
and that any real games, even modern ones, would be an improvement.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
<germanicus@g...> wrote:

>
> If I may take the last point first, I think having an annual
get-together is a TERRIFIC idea. Indeed, during my second Consulship,
I recall proposing just such a thing, but it never panned out.
Something that would move from province to province, giving more
people an opportunity to get to something big at least once every
couple of years without having to travel thousands of miles, is a
great idea. WorldCon for Nova Roma! I'm not sure it would be best to
have that be under the purview of the Consuls or Aediles, since it
would be a nation-wide gathering, but that's a detail that can be
worked out. (I think every province should do at least one such
provincial gathering a year, as well, by the way!)



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24651 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Salve,

Unfortunately, I can't make it on the 5th of July since I will be up in
Ontario getting myself married ~_^

I' don't know if you want to meet with folks on both days, but I'll be
able to check if I'm free for the 17th on Monday.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix


M. Arminia Maior Fabiana wrote:

> Salve Calve;
> wonderful, it will be nice to finally meet in person and not just
>online at the Censor's list & we can have a long dark laugh about
>Roman Naming practices;-) Hadrianus does that work for you?
> bene vale
>M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@c...>
>wrote:
>
>
>>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Verana"
>><rory12001@y...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Salvete Quirites;
>>> I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of
>>>
>>>
>>July
>>
>>
>>>weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
>>>Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR
>>>
>>>
>>talk!
>>
>>
>>> bene valete
>>> Arminia Fabiana Veriana
>>>
>>>
>>Salve,
>>
>>Unfortunately with the 17th being on a Thursday, that date is out
>>
>>
>of
>
>
>>the question due to work. However the 5th is doable.
>>
>>Vale,
>>
>>Q. Cassius Calvus
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24652 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Tibi Congratulatio!
Some things come before Nova Roma:) I wish you and your nupta fine
weather for the day and every happiness.
Hadriane yes, do check for the 17th I've only met two other Nova
Romani in person: Hiberni, so it would be nice to expand my horizons;)
vale
M.Arminia Maior Fabiana

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
<c.minucius.hadrianus@n...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Unfortunately, I can't make it on the 5th of July since I will be
up in
> Ontario getting myself married ~_^
>
> I' don't know if you want to meet with folks on both days, but I'll
be
> able to check if I'm free for the 17th on Monday.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
>
>
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana wrote:
>
> > Salve Calve;
> > wonderful, it will be nice to finally meet in person and not just
> >online at the Censor's list & we can have a long dark laugh about
> >Roman Naming practices;-) Hadrianus does that work for you?
> > bene vale
> >M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
Verana"
> >><rory12001@y...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Salvete Quirites;
> >>> I will be in Boston June 17 & then July 5& 6th (I know 4th of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>July
> >>
> >>
> >>>weekend;-) but if there are any cives in the neighborhood or
> >>>Cambridge I certainly would like to meet them for coffee and NR
> >>>
> >>>
> >>talk!
> >>
> >>
> >>> bene valete
> >>> Arminia Fabiana Veriana
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Salve,
> >>
> >>Unfortunately with the 17th being on a Thursday, that date is out
> >>
> >>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>the question due to work. However the 5th is doable.
> >>
> >>Vale,
> >>
> >>Q. Cassius Calvus
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24653 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: SPQR Rings UPDATE
Count me in on the ring!!! It's about time, thanks!

Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:Salve

For those who are on the wait list or anybody else that would like to buy one of the SPQR rings, this is what you need to do.

Send a check or money order made out to "United States Eagle Rings" ( name of the company that is making our ring) and

mail o ME at Tim Gallagher
5496 Ross Court
New Market, Maryland 21774

Once I have received the money from everybody on the list, and any other people who want one we will place and order and send the money to Mike Carroll.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24654 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: ante diem IV Idus Iuni
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem IV Idus Iunii and the Feria Vestalia; the Feria
Vestalia continued.

Tomorrow is ante diem III Idus Iunii, the Feria Matralia, and is sacred
to Fortuna; the day is nefastus. The feria of Mater Matuta, Goddess of
childbirth, motherhood, and the raising of children. Mothers are honored
by their children and husbands, and mothers pray for their children and
the children of their siblings. The statue of Mater Matuta could only
be decorated for the feria by a univira (the wife of a first marriage).
Female slaves were excluded from the temple, with the exception of one
who was ritually beaten. Testuacia (special cakes) are offered to the
Goddess, cooked in testu
.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24655 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-10
Subject: Re: Ludi
Flavius Vedius Germanicus FR. Apulo Caeso S.P.D.



Salve Senator,



(Forgive my presumption, but I applied my spell-checker to your words as well as mine, if for no other reason than to clarify our conversation for the sake of others who might be following it.)



> -----Original Message-----

> *From:* FAC [mailto:sacro_barese_impero@...]

> *Sent:* Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:38 AM

> *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi

>

> > My thanks for your thoughts on my ideas regarding real-world ludii.

>

> Thank you too for your attention, I would answer to your comments.



You honor me with your own attention. I am only thankful that our thoughts seem to be so in line with one another.



> > If I may boil down your objections to their salient points (and I

> > know in doing so I know I am probably missing some nuances), it

> > seems that in particular, you are saying:

> >

> > 1) Nova Roma is international, and it would be impossible to

> > bring all the Cives together in one place to attend any ludii, and

>

> Almost correct.

>

> > 2) For anyone to organize real-world ludii would be

> > prohibitively expensive

>

> Correct

>

> > You offer a possible solution to point 1) in saying that we could

> > organize an annual "rally" where at least a goodly number of cives

> > could be expected to attend (I would argue that we would still fall

> > far short of a majority, but that's not a reason not to do it).

>

> This is not a possible solution, we're doing it now. Former Curule

> Aedile Quintilianus started with the meeting in Tongeren (Belgium),

> I continued with a Rally in Bologna (Italy). The 2004 Rally will be

> in Segovia (Spain) but it isn't organized by an Aedile. However I

> knew that Iulius Scaurus was thinking to do one in USA and Iulius

> Perusianus a little meeting in Rome.



No offense intended; by �possible� I did not mean to imply �hypothetical�.



> > If I may take the last point first, I think having an annual get-

> > together is a TERRIFIC idea. Indeed, during my second Consulship, I

> > recall proposing just such a thing, but it never panned out.

> > Something that would move from province to province, giving more

> > people an opportunity to get to something big at least once every

> > couple of years without having to travel thousands of miles, is a

> > great idea. WorldCon for Nova Roma! I'm not sure it would be best to

> > have that be under the purview of the Consuls or Aediles, since it

> > would be a nation-wide gathering, but that's a detail that can be

> > worked out. (I think every province should do at least one such

> > provincial gathering a year, as well, by the way!)

>

> Pater, I think we're talking about the same topic :-)

> What we organized was a a couple of international meetings with

> shows, tours, fights, discussions, etc. It's easy to suppose that

> in 2003 in Italy we�d had citizens from the closer Provinciae. But

> we were very happy to see Illustri cives coming from Sweden and

> Finland.

> This means that we could strongly invite the Provinciae to organize

> annual meetings in each continent (North-America, South-America,

> Europe, Australia, etc.) under the supervision of the Aediles, the

> magistrates historically assigned to this kind of activities.

> In my jobs as Aedile and Propraetor I noted that the meetinf face-to-

> face are one of the most important point for the growth of NR. I

> think to be friend of each citizen meeting directly because the

> virtual nova roman communications are too "cold". So IMHO NR should

> put the live meetings in the first 3 places of our long list of

> goals.



I couldn�t agree more, and that is my own top priority. Nova Roma must be more than just the website and this email list. Our good Lucius Sicinius Drusus has made some excellent comments on this subject, to which I�ll be replying forthwith.



> (I'm quite lucky because in Italy we have 3-4 meetings per year.

> During this year we met yet 2 times and we are planning other two

> meetings in September. Unlucky all the events are organized in the

> north of my Provincia, quite far from my city. So sadly sometime I'm

> forced to be absent in some rallies.)



Lucky indeed! I�m just pleased to be able to go to Roman Days this upcoming weekend, and (hopefully) Roman Market Days up in New England come September. Both are about a 4-hour drive, but I�m happy to do it (and fortunate to live where I do, where attending such things is viable).



> > Now, to address your first point as I perceive it, I don't see any

> > reason why the celebration of ludii must necessarily be something

> > that everyone in Nova Roma can participate in or witness. Even if

> > there are only a handful of witnesses to a given ludus, the mere

> > fact that it was staged, and particularly was done so properly

> > (remember a ludus is a religious ceremony, after all) on behalf of

> > the Republic would, I think, be sufficient. Of course, if there are

> > photographs (or, even better, video!) so that those of us unable to

> > attend can at least participate vicariously, so much the better.

> > Eventually, a live video stream would be the ideal solution (and

> > that goes for sacrifices too, by the way, pontifices!), but let's

> > not get ahead of ourselves.

>

> Honestly I disagree. Yes, I agree, the Ludi are religious

> celebrations but they're public. This means that they would be

> organized for the public, the people.



Then we disagree. Oh, well! Certainly men of goodwill can disagree and still remain not only civil, but friends as well (a point which is not always in evidence here on the �Main List�, but which I hope all would eventually take to heart). Who knows? Maybe some day I�ll convince you that my position is more correct (in fact I�ll try to do so below), or you may do the same. But we must drain the poison that says �if you disagree with me, you must be crushed�.



> And trying to see them on a

> political side, the Aedile is elected from the people and he must to

> serve the Res Publica and the citizens. If he organized Ludi in

> Kenya and only 5 cives participated because nobody could travel for

> so many KMs, IMHO he didn't accomplished fully his duties as Aedile.

> As Magistrate he must to serve the majority of the people and his

> electors.



I confess I fail to see your reasoning here.



On the one hand, you say that an Aedile should serve a majority of the people when organizing activities, or else his duty goes unfulfilled. Yet, as an example of something you regard as the way things should be done, you mention the Rally (which I still think is a great achievement�don�t get me wrong) in Provincia Italia, which as far as I know had an attendance measured in tens. Is that really so much better than an event in Kenya measured in fives?



As long as we remain so geographically distant, any gathering is going to only serve a small subset of our entire population. That�s just a fact.



> Yes, Of course, the Ludi are religious events and the most important

> point is their correct celebration, but you know that in the Ancient

> Rome they had social roles too. They were used to celebrate, to

> satisfy the public, to honor the glory of a God or of a

> magistrate, to rule and normalize the society, to sacrifice

> the "rei", etc. They are religious events, but if you see them only

> as religious events,



I�m sorry your message seems to have gotten cut off at this point. I�ll reply as best I can.



The Ludii that originally sparked this discussion were indeed religious in nature. And you are also correct that they served a social and even a political function. But I don�t think the social functions can only be served solely by having every event they sponsor be directly accessible to all the cives. I do see them as having a religious function as well as a social and political one, but I do believe that the mere knowledge that a few dozen people actually got together somewhere�Kenya, Japan, Rome, or New Jersey�and undertook to perform the ludii is at least as satisfying (more so in my own case) as knowing that a computer generated some random numbers which got translated into a virtual chariot race.



(No disrespect at all to those who have come up with those computer simulations; they are great, but I am only saying we need to move beyond such things and into a less virtual world, even if it means we have to replace virtual chariot races with real plays and gymnastics.)



> Pics of the Ludi are not enough for my needs of games as Roman ;-)



Again, we must disagree, as I feel that transcripts of a computer game aren�t enough for my needs of games as a Roman, either. ;-)



> As common citizen if I give my vote to a candidate, I want he

> accomplish his duties when he'll elect. And if he organize Ludi in

> Japan for 4 cives and the participation is impossible, I'm quite

> sure he didn't accomplish his job ;-)



At the risk of pressing home the point, you�d think he did accomplish the job if he organized the Ludii in Italia for 20 cives? I don�t see how you can make that distinction. Or am I missing your point here? I certainly don�t discount that possibility!



> Streaming video are a great idea, it would be fascinating to see

> live events directly on the web. However as professional of this

> field I know that this kind of technologic features is not common

> and easy and cheap. The Aedile would be informatics and able to

> raise cameras and firewall capture tools and to have advanced

> internet and server skills. Very far for the actual situation ... ;-)



Okay then; not something streaming live. But perhaps archived video. It doesn�t take a lot of skill to point a video camera and transfer the tape to digital. Or even just distribute tapes or DVDs. Anyone with a halfway modern computer can make such things nowadays. I know from personal experience the vicarious thrill of seeing one�s coreligionists celebrating a festival, even if edited, and even if months or even years delayed. It really does matter, and have meaning, and I would give anything to see a video of one of the rallies you have conducted. Wouldn�t it be grand to be able to see a video of the 2780 AUC Ludii Romanii conducted in Brindizi???



> > Now, to take the final remaining point; the expense.

> >

> > You are entirely right.

> >

> > It is a very expensive proposition to put on horse-races, or

> > chariot races. (Until such time, of course, as we have a Sodalitas

> > dedicated to such things, which would presumably have access to its

> > own horses and equipment, but once more that's way off in the

> > future.) However, I would point out that there are different sorts

> > of ludii that could be staged. The reading of poetry, or the

> > performance of drama. Gymnastic competition. Gladiatorial combats

> > (which are, admittedly, late in our period to apply to ludii, but

> > still well within it) have some expense involved for equipment, but

> > that's a one-time expense. Such things don't cost much, and could be

> > as much fun to practice for as they are to undertake.

>

> I full agree with you. Of course, the chariot races are the most

> fascinating and popular games, the people love them. However it's

> possible to organize little sport events and drama shows with few

> expenses.

> A possible idea could be raise funds at sponsors and adv. It's could

> be useful for a boutique or little enterprise see the logo in a

> public and special sport event.

> Or think to create a little nova roman account for very little

> reimbursements.



That�s positively inspired! A wonderful idea! I love the idea of getting sponsors for such events!! Perhaps our good Pontifex Maximus could interject here; I understand that Roman Market Days is being undertaken in conjunction with a city in Massachusetts. I can�t help but think that some sort of private business wouldn�t be willing to get some advertising at one of our events in return for some sort of sponsorship (monetarily or in kind).



> > Here's something of a germ of an idea, not fully formed by any

> > means. What if there formed a sort of unwritten tradition that, to

> > take one example, Nova Caesaria (New Jersey, part of the

> > Mediatlantica provincial) did the Ludii Romanii? And Roma did the

> > Ludii Plebii? And Britannia did another? And so forth? If there were

> > active local groups in those places, it could be doable, and with

> > minimal funding (as long as we kept things horse-free initially). It

> > might also give those local groups something to focus on ("Next week

> > we're doing our rehearsal for Plautus' "The Haunted House" that

> > we're performing for the Ludii Romanii! Let's be ready, people!")

>

> I again agree with you. I think that NR must to "stress" this field

> increasing the range of activities by the local groups. The Lex

> Fabia de Oppida created a good base for the creation and

> organization of local active groups. Now we have to increase it and

> create opportunities and activities for this groups. They could be

> the new heart of NR.

> I think you understood well that in my opinion the live activities

> and the growth of the local groups are one of the most important

> goals of NR ;-)



I hope so. It�s a drum I was beating four years ago. :-) In fact, I think the Lex Fabia was based on a lex I was proposing during my own second Consulship, but which never really grabbed the popular imagination. Perhaps the time has finally come.



> > I guess my point is that things can be done locally on behalf of

> > the entire Republic, and the things that are done don't need to be

> > the most expensive things on the menu. We are still growing, and

> > there are doubtless thousands of things that we will need to grow

> > into. Even if not everyone can be present, we can all see pictures,

> > or videos.

>

> Again, I agree for the local Ludi overlooked and managed by the

> Aediles with little expenses. However I disagree this is the only

> solution for the reasons written on the top. The local groups are

> great only if any region'd have one. If a region haven't it, this

> couldn't be in the only solution.



I�m not quite sure I understand your point here; are you saying that relying on local groups is only good when everyone has access to a local group? I must disagree. Let the most active local groups pave the way. The more that we do incrementally�a Ludus in NJ, or Gaul, or Britannia�will help spread the perception that Nova Roma is a real, serious, endeavor, and stimulate growth in those places where we are not yet strong.



> > Rather than saying it's too big to do completely right from the

> > outset, so let's do nothing, I think we are better served by saying

> > let's do what we can now, and lay the groundwork for what we shall

> > doubtless be able to in the future.

>

> I think nobody here (or of course the former and actual Aediles

> since 3 years ago) is thinking "let's do nothing".



Apologies. Perhaps �do nothing� was a poor choice of words. I�m not exactly sure how to convey my meaning; �do nothing in the real world�, perhaps? That still doesn�t seem right. I simply don�t place virtual reality on the same plane as real reality.



> Everybody (and

> Aedile are one of the firsts) are involved in some projects, have

> expanses, give to NR time and money.



As have I. Just this week I put out more than US$200 for goods to be sold at Roman Days, profits to be given to the treasury.



> I think the spot "let's do what

> we can now" is old now, we are claiming it from many time and I

> remember that this is what I have read when I joined NR in '99.

> Now it's the time to claim "We're doing, let's do more and more and

> in a best way". In the past we did the live Ludi, the virtual Ludi,

> the international meetings, the RPGs, etc. now what we could to do?



My answer here is simple. Away from the virtual, and towards the live. But I must disagree; we must always �do what we can now�. But I don�t see that as an excuse to do less, but a challenge to do more!



> We are seeing about today and tomorrow, I ever see to the day after

> tomorrow, because our common claim should be "the best growth for

> our organization".

>

> Vale

> FR. Apulus CAesar

> Senator



My thanks for entertaining my suggestions. This has been a most stimulating discussion.



Vale,



Flavius Vedius Germanicus,

Pater Patriae





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24656 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Flavius Vedius Germanicus Lucio Sicinio Druso S.P.D.



Salve Pontifex,



-----Original Message-----

> *From:* Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:drusus@...]

> *Sent:* Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:07 PM

> *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi

>

> Some quick thoughts on this,

>

> Perhaps we could divide Nova Roma into regions, ie,

> Region 1 Eastern North America.

> Region 2 Northern Europe.

> Region 3 Western North America.

> Region 4 Southern Europe.

>

> I'm not certain how many civies we have outside these 4 regions, but

> the vast majority are in them. As the population grows we could add

> more regions, say Region 5 might be South America.

>

> Each Year Nova Roma could stage a "Roman Days" type event in one of

> the regions running through them in numerical order. If next year we

> held the event in Region one, the the following year it would be in

> region two, region three the year after that, etc.

>

> Ludi could be included in these events. I would prefer that the games

> be as historic as possible, but I would even consider a modern game of

> football to be an improvement over virtual games. Last year's virtual

> murder of a virtual contestant in the virtual races convinced me that

> the virtual games had gone way too far in the direction of roleplaying

> and that any real games, even modern ones, would be an improvement.

>

> L. Sicinius Drusus

> Pontifex



I�m not so sure how I�d feel about football as a suitable substitute, but I cannot agree more with your sentiments regarding �virtual� games.



A rotating geographic locale for a Nova Roma-wide national gathering is an excellent idea. But I would even make the vision broader than �Roman Days� which is essentially a reenactment gathering. The National assembly should be that, but more as well; religious, cultural, political, and social events all intertwined.



I live for the day when the Senate can meet in realtime. I wrote the rules of the Senate with such a possibility in mind.



I am pleased to see that we are thinking along the same lines, honored Pontifex. I am truly glad to be home.



Vale,



Flavius Vedius Germanicus,

Pater Patriae



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24657 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salve Conservatus Maior,

impressive and fascinating place, Colonia Ulpia Traiana could be a
wonderful location where organize an International Nova Roman Rally.
Why don't you think to organize the european rally for the summer of
2005 in collaboration with Provincia Germania and the closer
Provinciae?
Here we could organize several activities.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <philipp.hanenberg@w...> wrote:
> Philippus Flavius Conservatus Maior Flavi Vedi Germanice salutem
dicit
>
>
> I like the idea to go out and set ludi in the RL. I was looking
around a bit here in Provincia Germania and we have a very nice
place where we can run such events or just enjoy other ludi and
roman things. And there are also lots of other people.
>
> Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xanten)
>
> If you like I can ask to use the Amphitheatrum too. This ancient
city offers interested people a lot of various things.
>
>
> A bit about Colonia Ulpia Traiana (Xantan) the Roman town in the
lower Rhine area.
>
> Xanten has become a treasure trove for archeologists because it is
the only Roman town north of the Alps which has not been built over
since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Its ground plan has remained
intact under the fields and pastures. Nowadays it is not only a
place where archeologists are employed.
>
> In addition, the results of their excavations have been
reconstructed on a scale of 1:1 over the original foundations and
since 1977 the Rhineland Landscape Association has made them
accessible to the public in the Xanten Archeological Park.
>
>
> You can find a reconstructed taverna too andenjoy original roman
food and mulsum
> (no, no ... mulsum and food are not 2000 yrs old ;-) )
>
>
> I think this can be a great place to set some RL ludi and other
activities and as said above lots of roman interested people are
there too.
>
> http://www.lvr.de/fachdez/kultur/museen/apx/ (sorry, they have a
German site only)
>
>
> But let's hear other opinions. What are you thinking about?
>
>
> Vale
> Ph. Flavius Conservatus Maior
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
__
> Moechten Sie Ihre SMS noch ausdrucksstaerker und emotionaler
gestalten?
> Fuegen Sie einfach ein Bild hinzu! http://freemail.web.de/?
mc=021194
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24658 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: World tour about Pompei
Salvete Omnes.
I suggest you to visit this special world event "Storie da
un'eruzione: Pompei, Ercolano, Oplontis." (Tales by an eruption:
Pompei, Hercalenum, Oplointis) organized by the Soprintendenza
Archeologica di Pompei with the Soprintendenza per i Beni
Archeologici di Napoli e Caserta and Region Campania-Assessorato ai
Beni Culturali.

For the first time rests and reportages about Pompei and its tragedy
of A.C. will tour the word. Special reportages thanking an hard
organization of archeological new documents, orignial human figures
and a special colletcion directly from the ruins.
The exposition will give the rare opportunity to see the walls of
the triclinium A, part of teh ruins of Pompei suburbium, precious
paints founded in Villa 6 of Terzigno remembering the megagraphy of
Villa dei Misteri.
And also teh human skeletons, wall pictures, sculptures, precioud
jewels and common objects.

This is the schedule of the tour:

São Paulo, Museu de Arte de São Paulo Assis Chateaubriand - from
March 25th to June 12th 2004;

Rio de Janeiro, Centro Cultural Banco do Brasil - from July 19th to
September 19th 2004;

Mannheim, Reiss-Engelhorn Museen - form November 28th 2004 to April
17th 2005;

Chicago, The Field Museum - from October 18th 2005 to March 26th
2006;

Other events could be organized at Royal British Columbia Museum of
Victoria (Canada), some japanese museums and the Castello di
Miramare in Trieste (Italy).

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24659 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Calendar
A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I see the calendar is once again marked with dies
fasti &c. - many thanks to whomever is responsible.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24660 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salve Pater Patriae, et Omnes,


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
<germanicus@g...> wrote:

>
> I'm not so sure how I'd feel about football as a suitable
substitute, but I cannot agree more with your sentiments regarding
"virtual" games.
>

DRUSUS: Football certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a Ludi
event, but even it would be better than a virtual game. The Ludi are
religous events, not just a secular event like the modern World Series
or World Cup. The Efforts of the athletes, everything they felt from
the pain of an injury to the elation of a victory, and in ancient
times the untimely death of a contestant, was an offering to the
Immortal(s) that the Ludi was staged in honor of. This vital element
of the Ludi can never be present in a virtual simulation, but is
present in real games, even modern ones if we are unable to stage any
other kind. Football, Softball, Basketball, etc, would be a last
resort and a poor tempary substitute for historic events, but still a
vast improvement from the Religous standpoint.

>
> A rotating geographic locale for a Nova Roma-wide national gathering
is an excellent idea. But I would even make the vision broader than
"Roman Days" which is essentially a reenactment gathering. The
National assembly should be that, but more as well; religious,
cultural, political, and social events all intertwined.
>
>
DRUSUS: There is a danger of being too ambitious when we start
planning these regional events. Nova Roma still has limited resources
and if we attempt too much at the outset the task will quickly become
too daunting for our abilities. I Would suggest that we start out
small and let the events grow in magnitude as Nova Roma grows. This
will get the regional meetings started as soon as possible rather than
seeing them slip into an undetermined future date because of limited
resources.

I Feel that it is better to do a few thing really well than to do many
things poorly, or even worse to not be able to do anything because too
much was planned and the task became unmanageable. That is why I think
we should limit what we attempt at annual regional meetings untill we
become accomplished at staging them with a limited agenda. Once we get
them launched with this limited agenda and make them a sucess, then we
can start expanding the scope untill they encompass all of the things
that we would like to do.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24661 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Ludi
Salvete Omnes,
a funny and ridiculous idea about real Ludi Cicercenses without
expanses horses and chariots. Some month ago someone posted the
website of a funny man which created Roman chariots by little
scooter. He took a scooter and build up the structure of a chariot.
A funny idea to substitue temporaly the great Ludi Circenses.

:-)

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24662 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 51-1
----- Original Message -----
From: <jnls.cust.serv@...>
To: <GROMEJ-L@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:25 AM
Subject: ToC for Greece and Rome 51-1


> Greece and Rome -- Table of Contents Alert
>
> A new issue of Greece and Rome
> has been made available:
>
> April 2004; Vol. 51, No. 1
>
> URL: http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_51/Issue_01/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Fall-out from Dissent: Hero and Audience in Sophocles' Ajax
> Elton Barker, pp. 1-20
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Aristophanes, Acharnians 1118-21
> John R. Porter, pp. 21-33
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No Woman No War: Women's Participation in Ancient Greek Warfare
> Pasi Loman, pp. 34-54
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Notes on Contributors p. 54
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Authorial Voice and Theatrical Self-definition in Terence and Beyond: The
Hecyra Prologues in Ancient and Modern Contexts
> Ismene Lada-Richards, pp. 55-82
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Arminius into Hermann: History into Legend
> Herbert W. Benario, pp. 83-94
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Death-loration: the Eroticization of Death in the Thebaid
> Claire Jamset, pp. 95-104
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> G. Santana Henriquez: Tradicion Clasica y Literatura Española
> Reviewed by Catalina Balmaceda, p. 105
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Greg Rowe: Princes and Political Cultures
> Reviewed by Alison E. Cooley, p. 106
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> G. R. Boys-Stones: Post-Hellenistic Philosophy
> Reviewed by Jane Barton, p. 107
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Greek Literature
> Stephen Halliwell, pp. 108-112
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Latin Literature
> D. E. Hill, pp. 112-115
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Greek History
> Thomas Harrison, pp. 116-121
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Roman History
> Barbara Levick, pp. 121-127
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Art and Archaeology
> Nigel Spivey, pp. 127-129
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Philosophy
> George Boys-Stones, pp. 129-132
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> General
> Christopher Burnand and Katherine Clarke, pp. 132-137
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Books Received pp. 138-143
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Index of Reviews pp. 144-146
>
>
> You are registered for the Oxford University Press journals' email
alerting
> service. Details on how to subscribe and unsubscribe follow below. You can
> also use the webinterface at http://www3.oup.co.uk/jnls/tocmail/ and
follow
> the instructions.
>
>
> HOW TO SUBSCRIBE
>
> To subscribe to this mailinglist send a message to
> LISTSERV@... with "subscribe GROMEJ-L" as the body of the
> message.
>
> HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a message to
> LISTSERV@... with "signoff GROMEJ-L" as the body of the
> message.
>
> OTHER EMAIL ALERTING SERVICES FROM OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS
>
> For the latest tables of contents of other journals in your area visit:-
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/jnls/tocmail/
>
> For advance details of appropriate new books (including details of special
> offers) visit:-
>
> http://www.oup.co.uk/emailnews/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24663 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 51-1
Salve


--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...>
escreveu: >
> > Arminius into Hermann: History into Legend
> > Herbert W. Benario, pp. 83-94


MAM: This one seems to be interesting.


Vale
M.Arminius


______________________________________________________________________

Participe da pesquisa global sobre o Yahoo! Mail:
http://br.surveys.yahoo.com/global_mail_survey_br
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24664 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: National Gathering
Salvete Omnes,

Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an annual
meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,

Region 1 Eastern North America.
Region 2 Northern Europe.
Region 3 Western North America.
Region 4 Southern Europe.

These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting would be
held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within region
one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.

The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting because
the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one year,
in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between geographic
areas when it's turn comes.

Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit citizens
by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting with
many activities.

Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the same
time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be in
the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend outdoor
events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)

The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as any
Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental actions can
take place as well as the games.

My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in July.
This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition to the
Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi Apollinares, so
this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events during
the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and the
last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when governmental
business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24665 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salvete;
in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it is
the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we are
thinking of sites for next year.
As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real life
get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia Thules,
I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
Romans.
I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.

I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How many
cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together to
learn Latin?
In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn College
all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
I think with diligence you could have many active local and then
national events.
bene valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
annual
> meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
>
> Region 1 Eastern North America.
> Region 2 Northern Europe.
> Region 3 Western North America.
> Region 4 Southern Europe.
>
> These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
> other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting would
be
> held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within region
> one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
>
> The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
> that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting because
> the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
year,
> in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
geographic
> areas when it's turn comes.
>
> Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit citizens
> by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
> travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
> logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting with
> many activities.
>
> Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the same
> time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be in
> the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
outdoor
> events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
>
> The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
> events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as
any
> Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental actions
can
> take place as well as the games.
>
> My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in July.
> This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition to
the
> Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi Apollinares,
so
> this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events during
> the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and the
> last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when governmental
> business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24666 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve,

A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not a
National meeting.

Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if that is
all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova Roma's
central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete;
> in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it is
> the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we are
> thinking of sites for next year.
> As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real life
> get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia Thules,
> I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> Romans.
> I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
>
> I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How many
> cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together to
> learn Latin?
> In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn College
> all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> I think with diligence you could have many active local and then
> national events.
> bene valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> annual
> > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> >
> > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > Region 3 Western North America.
> > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> >
> > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
> > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting would
> be
> > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within region
> > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> >
> > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
> > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting because
> > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> year,
> > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> geographic
> > areas when it's turn comes.
> >
> > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit citizens
> > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
> > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
> > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting with
> > many activities.
> >
> > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the same
> > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be in
> > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> outdoor
> > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> >
> > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
> > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as
> any
> > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental actions
> can
> > take place as well as the games.
> >
> > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in July.
> > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition to
> the
> > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi Apollinares,
> so
> > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events during
> > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and the
> > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when governmental
> > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24667 From: FAC Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve Senator Drusus,

With all my respect, I would underline a thing.
The last year Rally in Italy organized by us wasn't an "European
meeting", it was and International event. We kindly invited all the
citizens of NR from everywhere to join with us. The advertisment and
recruitment started 5 months before.
Unlucky nobody from the other continents came in Bologna, we
had "only" ;-) cives from Thule, Germania, Italia and Gallia (?).
However the meeting was called International Nova Roman Rally.

Vale bene
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not a
> National meeting.
>
> Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if that
is
> all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
Roma's
> central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete;
> > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it
is
> > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we
are
> > thinking of sites for next year.
> > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
life
> > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
Thules,
> > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> > Romans.
> > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> >
> > I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How
many
> > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together
to
> > learn Latin?
> > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
College
> > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > I think with diligence you could have many active local and
then
> > national events.
> > bene valete
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > annual
> > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions
were,
> > >
> > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > >
> > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
any
> > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
would
> > be
> > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
region
> > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > >
> > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
after
> > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
because
> > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America
one
> > year,
> > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > geographic
> > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > >
> > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
citizens
> > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
make
> > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
the
> > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
with
> > > many activities.
> > >
> > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at
the same
> > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
be in
> > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > outdoor
> > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > >
> > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
the
> > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
as
> > any
> > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
actions
> > can
> > > take place as well as the games.
> > >
> > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
July.
> > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In
addition to
> > the
> > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
Apollinares,
> > so
> > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
during
> > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
and the
> > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
governmental
> > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24668 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve;
I think you misheard, I'm an American, I've met a lot of Nova
Romans and will meet more in Boston, there is no factionalism at all,
just lots of good fellowship!!!
I suggest we all work at making friendships all over Nova Roma. I
can travel to three continents on the good friends I've made.
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana





In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Salve,
>
> A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not a
> National meeting.
>
> Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if that
is
> all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
Roma's
> central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete;
> > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it
is
> > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we
are
> > thinking of sites for next year.
> > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
life
> > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
Thules,
> > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> > Romans.
> > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> >
> > I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How
many
> > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together to
> > learn Latin?
> > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
College
> > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > I think with diligence you could have many active local and
then
> > national events.
> > bene valete
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > annual
> > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> > >
> > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > >
> > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
any
> > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
would
> > be
> > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
region
> > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > >
> > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
after
> > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
because
> > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> > year,
> > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > geographic
> > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > >
> > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
citizens
> > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
make
> > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
the
> > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
with
> > > many activities.
> > >
> > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the
same
> > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
be in
> > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > outdoor
> > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > >
> > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
the
> > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
as
> > any
> > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
actions
> > can
> > > take place as well as the games.
> > >
> > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
July.
> > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition
to
> > the
> > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
Apollinares,
> > so
> > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
during
> > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
and the
> > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
governmental
> > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24669 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve Tribune,

The post I was replying to called the event the "NR European Rally"
rather than using someother term.

There is a world of diferance between an event that is carefully
rotated among geograpihic locations and staged by Nova Roma's National
Government and an unofficial event held in one region that indiviuals
opt to call a "national" meeting despite the fact that a large portion
of Nova Roma's citizens being unable to afford the costs of
international travel.

I'm proposing an official National meeting each year held by Nova
Roma's government, one that would rotate from one region to another to
give as many citizens as possible the chance to take part in at least
one of Nova Roma's official national meetings during the rotation cycle.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Senator Drusus,
>
> With all my respect, I would underline a thing.
> The last year Rally in Italy organized by us wasn't an "European
> meeting", it was and International event. We kindly invited all the
> citizens of NR from everywhere to join with us. The advertisment and
> recruitment started 5 months before.
> Unlucky nobody from the other continents came in Bologna, we
> had "only" ;-) cives from Thule, Germania, Italia and Gallia (?).
> However the meeting was called International Nova Roman Rally.
>
> Vale bene
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Senator et Tribunus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not a
> > National meeting.
> >
> > Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if that
> is
> > all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> > important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
> Roma's
> > central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > Salvete;
> > > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it
> is
> > > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we
> are
> > > thinking of sites for next year.
> > > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
> life
> > > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
> Thules,
> > > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> > > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> > > Romans.
> > > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> > >
> > > I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How
> many
> > > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together
> to
> > > learn Latin?
> > > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
> College
> > > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > > I think with diligence you could have many active local and
> then
> > > national events.
> > > bene valete
> > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > >
> > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > > annual
> > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions
> were,
> > > >
> > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > >
> > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
> any
> > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
> would
> > > be
> > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
> region
> > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > >
> > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
> after
> > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
> because
> > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America
> one
> > > year,
> > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > > geographic
> > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
> citizens
> > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
> make
> > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
> the
> > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
> with
> > > > many activities.
> > > >
> > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at
> the same
> > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
> be in
> > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > > outdoor
> > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
> the
> > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
> as
> > > any
> > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
> actions
> > > can
> > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > >
> > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
> July.
> > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In
> addition to
> > > the
> > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> Apollinares,
> > > so
> > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
> during
> > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
> and the
> > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> governmental
> > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24670 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Ave,

Then surely you have no objections to a chance to meet even more
people at Nova Roma's Offical National meeting each year.

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salve;
> I think you misheard, I'm an American, I've met a lot of Nova
> Romans and will meet more in Boston, there is no factionalism at all,
> just lots of good fellowship!!!
> I suggest we all work at making friendships all over Nova Roma. I
> can travel to three continents on the good friends I've made.
> bene vale
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not a
> > National meeting.
> >
> > Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if that
> is
> > all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> > important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
> Roma's
> > central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > Salvete;
> > > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it
> is
> > > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we
> are
> > > thinking of sites for next year.
> > > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
> life
> > > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
> Thules,
> > > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> > > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> > > Romans.
> > > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> > >
> > > I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How
> many
> > > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together to
> > > learn Latin?
> > > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
> College
> > > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > > I think with diligence you could have many active local and
> then
> > > national events.
> > > bene valete
> > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > >
> > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > > annual
> > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> > > >
> > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > >
> > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
> any
> > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
> would
> > > be
> > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
> region
> > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > >
> > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
> after
> > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
> because
> > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> > > year,
> > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > > geographic
> > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
> citizens
> > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
> make
> > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
> the
> > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
> with
> > > > many activities.
> > > >
> > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the
> same
> > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
> be in
> > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > > outdoor
> > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
> the
> > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
> as
> > > any
> > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
> actions
> > > can
> > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > >
> > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
> July.
> > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition
> to
> > > the
> > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> Apollinares,
> > > so
> > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
> during
> > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
> and the
> > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> governmental
> > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24671 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salvete;
considering that a round trip ticket from Boston to Dublin, is about
$300, and flights to Spain, Germany can be about 35 euros, due to
lovely Ryanair I haven't the vaguest idea why you suddenly don't want
to see all the temples, ampitheatres, aqueducts, towns available all
over the continent and that includes Turkey, Tunisia, Syria and Libya!
Though I love the US, Hibernia and have many Australian friends I
don't see the point of spending $1,000 to visit a country with no
Roman ruins, its just silly.

Please just attempt one convivium in your area and get the group to
speak Latin. I've proposed to the Hiberni thanks to Flavia
Scholastica that we purchase "Conversational Latin for Oral
Proficiency" by John Traupman, there is also a tape.
We can practice Latin on a road trip to a site, in a cafe, or when
busy with work, on the internet in Latin emails. This is the road to
making Nova Roma.
valete
M.Arminia Maior Fabiana



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Then surely you have no objections to a chance to meet even more
> people at Nova Roma's Offical National meeting each year.
>
> Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > Salve;
> > I think you misheard, I'm an American, I've met a lot of Nova
> > Romans and will meet more in Boston, there is no factionalism at
all,
> > just lots of good fellowship!!!
> > I suggest we all work at making friendships all over Nova
Roma. I
> > can travel to three continents on the good friends I've made.
> > bene vale
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not
a
> > > National meeting.
> > >
> > > Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if
that
> > is
> > > all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> > > important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
> > Roma's
> > > central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > > Salvete;
> > > > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year,
it
> > is
> > > > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already
we
> > are
> > > > thinking of sites for next year.
> > > > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
> > life
> > > > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
> > Thules,
> > > > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager
to
> > > > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow
Nova
> > > > Romans.
> > > > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> > > >
> > > > I think you need to form convivium right where you are.
How
> > many
> > > > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get
together to
> > > > learn Latin?
> > > > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > > > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
> > College
> > > > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > > > I think with diligence you could have many active local
and
> > then
> > > > national events.
> > > > bene valete
> > > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > <drusus@b...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding
an
> > > > annual
> > > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions
were,
> > > > >
> > > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > > >
> > > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings
were
> > > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't
have
> > any
> > > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the
meeting
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also
be
> > > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province
within
> > region
> > > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold
the
> > > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
> > after
> > > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
> > because
> > > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America
one
> > > > year,
> > > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > > > geographic
> > > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should
be
> > > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
> > citizens
> > > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions,
and
> > make
> > > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will
become
> > > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope
because
> > the
> > > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a
meeting
> > with
> > > > > many activities.
> > > > >
> > > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at
the
> > same
> > > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It
should
> > be in
> > > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity
as
> > > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or
attend
> > > > outdoor
> > > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part
of
> > the
> > > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as
well
> > as
> > > > any
> > > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
> > actions
> > > > can
> > > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > > >
> > > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares
in
> > July.
> > > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In
addition
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> > Apollinares,
> > > > so
> > > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of
events
> > during
> > > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies
Nefastus,
> > and the
> > > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> > governmental
> > > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the
festivities.
> > > > >
> > > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24672 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-11
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Ave,

Then simply don't attend any National Meetings that are held in the
United States rather than attempting to prevent the people who do want
to attend National meetings here from doing so.

Under my plan there would be a meeting in Europe every other year, at
least until another region gained enough citizens to be included in
the rotation, then it would be 2 out of every 5 years.

I Could have proposed that ALL the meetings be held where the majority
of the Senators and the Pontiffs reside, the United States, so that
they could attend as many meetings as possible, but I'm attempting to
propose a plan that would be as inclusive as possible, rather than
attempting to freeze a large number of citizens out by limiting
meetings to one region.

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete;
> considering that a round trip ticket from Boston to Dublin, is about
> $300, and flights to Spain, Germany can be about 35 euros, due to
> lovely Ryanair I haven't the vaguest idea why you suddenly don't want
> to see all the temples, ampitheatres, aqueducts, towns available all
> over the continent and that includes Turkey, Tunisia, Syria and Libya!
> Though I love the US, Hibernia and have many Australian friends I
> don't see the point of spending $1,000 to visit a country with no
> Roman ruins, its just silly.
>
> Please just attempt one convivium in your area and get the group to
> speak Latin. I've proposed to the Hiberni thanks to Flavia
> Scholastica that we purchase "Conversational Latin for Oral
> Proficiency" by John Traupman, there is also a tape.
> We can practice Latin on a road trip to a site, in a cafe, or when
> busy with work, on the internet in Latin emails. This is the road to
> making Nova Roma.
> valete
> M.Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > Then surely you have no objections to a chance to meet even more
> > people at Nova Roma's Offical National meeting each year.
> >
> > Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > Salve;
> > > I think you misheard, I'm an American, I've met a lot of Nova
> > > Romans and will meet more in Boston, there is no factionalism at
> all,
> > > just lots of good fellowship!!!
> > > I suggest we all work at making friendships all over Nova
> Roma. I
> > > can travel to three continents on the good friends I've made.
> > > bene vale
> > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Salve,
> > > >
> > > > A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting, not
> a
> > > > National meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if
> that
> > > is
> > > > all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's also
> > > > important that we have true national meetings sponsered by Nova
> > > Roma's
> > > > central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > > > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Salvete;
> > > > > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year,
> it
> > > is
> > > > > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already
> we
> > > are
> > > > > thinking of sites for next year.
> > > > > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real
> > > life
> > > > > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
> > > Thules,
> > > > > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager
> to
> > > > > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow
> Nova
> > > > > Romans.
> > > > > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you need to form convivium right where you are.
> How
> > > many
> > > > > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get
> together to
> > > > > learn Latin?
> > > > > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> > > > > University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
> > > College
> > > > > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > > > > I think with diligence you could have many active local
> and
> > > then
> > > > > national events.
> > > > > bene valete
> > > > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > > <drusus@b...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding
> an
> > > > > annual
> > > > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions
> were,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings
> were
> > > > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't
> have
> > > any
> > > > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the
> meeting
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also
> be
> > > > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province
> within
> > > region
> > > > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold
> the
> > > > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
> > > after
> > > > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
> > > because
> > > > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America
> one
> > > > > year,
> > > > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > > > > geographic
> > > > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should
> be
> > > > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
> > > citizens
> > > > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions,
> and
> > > make
> > > > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will
> become
> > > > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope
> because
> > > the
> > > > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a
> meeting
> > > with
> > > > > > many activities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It
> should
> > > be in
> > > > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity
> as
> > > > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or
> attend
> > > > > outdoor
> > > > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as
> well
> > > as
> > > > > any
> > > > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
> > > actions
> > > > > can
> > > > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares
> in
> > > July.
> > > > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In
> addition
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> > > Apollinares,
> > > > > so
> > > > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of
> events
> > > during
> > > > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies
> Nefastus,
> > > and the
> > > > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> > > governmental
> > > > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the
> festivities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24673 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: E-Mail Test
Just checking to see if my new Google Mail(Gmail) account is working properly.

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24674 From: O. Flavius Pompeius Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Well wishes from the colony
Salve amici,

Pardon me for bothering you governor, but I saw you're email regarding citizens of Britannia contacting you, simply to get to know them, and I couldn't resist. Granted I don't live in Britiannia, but in Australia. Little England Down Under ;) I certianly hope you don't mind me contacting you, but I've been wanting to get in touch with other Nova Romans outside of my usual sphere.

Well allow me to introduce myself. My name is Octavianus Flavius Pompeius, I've only been a citizen of Nova Roma for about 9 months or so, give or take a while. A practitioner of the relgio of course, I'm assuming you are as well? I understand that some governmental positions require religious duties? Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to presume too much. I'm only 18 going on 19 I'll grant you that, but I'd like to think my love of Rome compensated for any lacking in age. :) I live also in Sydney and am attending my first year at university.

Well hopefully this should be enough to get things started, once again hello! :)

Vale.

O. Flavius Pompeius




---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24675 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: pridie Idus Iunii
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is pridie Idus Iunii; the day is nefastus.

Tomorrow is Idus Iunii and the Feria Quinquatra Minusculae; the day is
nefastus publicus. The Feria Quinquatra Minuscula is a festival of the
tibicines (flute-players who play at religious occasions to drown out
any ill-omened noises). For three days they wander the city in masks and
festive clothing and performing music. The feria is sacred to Minerva,
who is the patron Goddess of the tibicines. The highpoint of the
festival was a sacrifice at the temple of Minerva and a banquet.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24676 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: improved
I have attached your document.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24677 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Re: E-Mail Test
Got it. :)

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Collins
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] E-Mail Test


Just checking to see if my new Google Mail(Gmail) account is working properly.

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24678 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Temple of Minerva (was Re: [Nova-Roma] pridie Idus Iunii)
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete.

With the Feria Quinquatra Minusculae beginning tommorow I would like to
remind everyone that the online Temple to Minerva is available at:

www.novabritannia.org/temple.htm

I would like to invite all of the Quirites to visit, learn a bit about
Nova Roma's grey eyed protector and perhaps leave your thoughts, or an
offering of a hymn, poem or prayer.

Valete in pace Deorum,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes


Gregory Rose wrote:

>G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.
>
>Salvete, Quirites.
>
>Today is pridie Idus Iunii; the day is nefastus.
>
>Tomorrow is Idus Iunii and the Feria Quinquatra Minusculae; the day is
>nefastus publicus. The Feria Quinquatra Minuscula is a festival of the
>tibicines (flute-players who play at religious occasions to drown out
>any ill-omened noises). For three days they wander the city in masks and
>festive clothing and performing music. The feria is sacred to Minerva,
>who is the patron Goddess of the tibicines. The highpoint of the
>festival was a sacrifice at the temple of Minerva and a banquet.
>
>G. Iulius Scaurus
>Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24679 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2004-06-12
Subject: Re: Ludi
F. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.

The Roman Video Shoot in Nashville, TN on October 14-17, 2004 offers an
excellent opportunity for Nova Romans in America Austrorientalis and Laci Magna to
meet one another and recruit new members. Gary Barbosa has already agreed to
allow a Nova Roman information and recruiting tent to be onsite. I will be
supplying the canvas, stools, tables, and some other Roman gear. The Propraetor
Popilius Laenas has given his blessing and hopes to attend as have some other
citizens. However, more citizens need to commit to coming and helping out.
Among the Roman reenactors will be more Nova Romans but Gary has indicated
that he still needs some Senators and other civilians for the video. I strongly
recommend this as an excellent opportunity for Nova Romans in the area to get
together, meet one another, and plan for more gatherings in 2005 (2758-9).
Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24680 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: I'm back
Salvete all,

I've just gotten back from Crete and Santorini where we've think that we may have finally
deciphered the Phaestos disc.

I have 800 emails in my inbox and will catch up today and tomorrow. My apologies to anyone who has
emailed me in the last two weeks and not received a reply.

Valete,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24681 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Idus Iunii
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is Idus Iunii and the Feria Quinquatra Minuscula; the day is
nefastus publicus. The Feria Quinquatra Minuscula is a festival of the
tibicines (flute-players who play at religious occasions to drown out
any ill-omened noises). For three days they wander the city in masks and
festive clothing and performing music. The feria is sacred to Minerva,
who is the patron Goddess of the tibicines. The highpoint of the
festival was a sacrifice at the temple of Minerva and a banquet.

Tomorrow is XVIII Kalendae Quinctilis and the Feria Quinquatra
Minuscula; the day is nefastus. The Feria Quinquatra Minuscula continued.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24682 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: I'm Back
Hi Diana,

It is great to see you back safe and sound. I hope you had a
terrific trip and I'm sure many of us would love to hear of your
adventures!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24683 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Report of Caerimonia Feria Quinquatra Minuscula
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today, Idus Iunii (June 13th) is the Feria Quinquatra Minuscula,
sacred to Dea Minerva.

As Minerva Templi Sacerdotes, to observe this feria I performed the
following caerimonia:

I bathed in preparation, then, garbed in toga praetexta, cinctu Gabino,
capite velato, I began the praefatio.

Praefatio

"Iane pater, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum Quiritum [Father
Ianus, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you
may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People of the Nova
Romans, the Quirites"]. I placed incense in the focus of the altar.

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti
sies volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum
[Iuppiter Best and Greatest, by offering this incense to you I pray good
prayers, so that you may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate
and People of the Nova Romans, the Quirites"]. I placed incense in the
focus of the altar.

"Iuno Dea, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitia mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum Quiritum [Goddess
Iuno, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you
may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People of the Nova
Romans, the Quirites"]. I placed incense in the focus of the altar.

"Mars pater, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum Quiritum [Father
Mars, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you
may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People of the Nova
Romans, the Quirites.]" I placed incense in the focus of the altar.

"Quirine pater, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum Quirites
[Father Quirinus, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers,
so that you may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People
of the Nova Romans, the Quirites.]" I placed incense in the focus of the
altar.

"Iane pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Ianus, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus
of the altar.

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene
precatus sum, eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Iuppiter Best
and Greatest, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were
well prayed, for the sake of this be honoured by this humble wine.]" I
poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Iuno Dea, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum, eiusdem
rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Goddess Iuno, as by offering to you
the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be
honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of the
altar.

"Mars pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Mars, as by offering to
you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this
be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of
the altar.

"Quirine pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Quirinus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the
sake of this be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on
the focus of the altar.

I washed my hands in preparation for the praecatio.

Precatio

"Minerva Sapientissima, fons fluens artium et artificiorum et scientiae
sapientiaeque, ad defensionem Senatus Populique Novorum Romanorum
Quiritum salias perinde ac a capite Iovis armata copiose saluisti; tibi
fieri oportet culignam vini dapi, eius rei ergo hac illace dape
pullucenda esto [Most Wise Minerva, flowing font of arts, crafts,
knowledge, and wisdom, may you leap to the defence of the Senate and
People of the Nova Romans, the Quirites, just as you leapt fully armed
from the head of Iuppiter; to you it is proper for a cup of wine to be
given, for the sake of this thing may you be honoured by this feast
offering]." I poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

Again I washed my hands in preparation for the redditio.

Redditio

"Minerva Sapientissima, Regina Aventina, a quo omnes res bonas mentis et
manus accipimus, macte istace dape pollucenda esto, macte vino inferio
esto [Most Wise Minerva, Aventine Queen, from whom we receive all good
things of mind and hand, may you be honoured by this feast offering, may
you be honoured by the humble wine.]" I offered Minerva Sapientissima
cakes and wine on the focus of the altar.

"Quirine pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Quirinus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the
sake of this be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on
the focus of the altar.

"Mars pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Mars, as by offering to
you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this
be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of
the altar.

"Iuno Dea, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum, eiusdem
rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Goddess Iuno, as by offering to you
the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be
honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of the
altar.

"Iane pater, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Ianus, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus
of the altar.

"Vesta Dea, custos ignis sacri, macte vino inferio esto [Goddess Vesta,
guardian of the sacred fire, be honoured by this humble wine.]" I poured
a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Illicet [It is permitted to go.]"

I profaned wine and cakes, and I partook of the epulum with Minerva
Sapientissima, praying as I ate and offering libations in my private
devotions.

Piaculum

Since the historical caerimonia of the feria of Quinquatria has not yet
been recovered, I offered a piaculum to Minerva Sapientissima if
anything in this caerimonia should offend her:

"Minerva Sapientissima, si quidquam tibi in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc ture veniam peto et vitium meum expio [Most Wise Minerva, if
anything in this ceremony is displeasing to you, with this incense I ask
forgiveness and expiate my fault.]" I offered incense on the focus of
the altar.

"Minerva Sapientissima, si quidquam tibi in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio [Most Wise Minerva, if
anything in this ceremony is displeasing to you, with this humble wine I
ask forgiveness and expiate my fault.]" I poured a libation on the focus
of the altar.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24684 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Senate email shut down?
Salvete,

I just tried to send a financial report from my activities at Roman Days in Maryland, USA, this past weekend to the Senate, and imagine my surprise when my email bounced back with the message "shut down for spam control".

Is there in fact any way to address the Senate as a whole? Did I receive this message in error?

The Senate should know how much money was made this weekend on behalf of the Republic. I would love to tell them. However, I need to know how to do so.

Roman Days was a blast, btw, and we made a ton of money for the treasury. I'll have a full report to this list later this week!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Pater Patriae



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24685 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-06-13
Subject: Re: Senate email shut down?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
<germanicus@g...> wrote:
> Salvete,

Salve,


>
> I just tried to send a financial report from my activities at Roman
Days in Maryland, USA, this past weekend to the Senate, and imagine
my surprise when my email bounced back with the message "shut down
for spam control".
>
> Is there in fact any way to address the Senate as a whole? Did I
receive this message in error?
>
> The Senate should know how much money was made this weekend on
behalf of the Republic. I would love to tell them. However, I need to
know how to do so.
>
> Roman Days was a blast, btw, and we made a ton of money for the
treasury. I'll have a full report to this list later this week!
>
> Valete,


That was no error. The senate at novaroma.org address has indeed
been shut down due to the amount of spam received at that address. I
don't know if an alternate method of communicating with the senate is
in the works or not. Se nd me your report and I will post it on the
senate list for you.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24686 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Flavius Vedius Germanicus Novaromanii S.P.D.,

Salvete omnes,

I've finally caught up on this thread, and if I may interject, I think there may be a slight miscommunication. If I understand what's being proposed...

Each province should indeed host its own gathering, every year.

And of those gatherings, one should be declared the "national gathering", on a rotating basis. That doesn't mean the others cannot go on, and be wonderfully enjoyable local/regional gatherings, but one of those would be the officially-designated "national gathering".

I confess I don't see the point of such a gathering to "see Roman ruins" so much as to get together with fellow Nova Romans. I absolutely agree we need to have events in the ancient territories, but that should never preclude us from getting together wherever we are. Let there certainly be an event in Brittania, and one in Italia, and one in Maryland, and another in Maine, and New Jersey and Australia, and all the rest! Let us by all means have events that center around genuine Roman ruins. But let us not limit ourselves to such things being the be-all and end-all of Nova Roma.

But one of those events-- of whatever stripe--, per year, should be the "official national" one, which we should make an extra-special effort to attend, even if it don't end up being able to. That is the "rotation" that was mentioned, I think.

So, nobody's talking about there being only one "big event" a year, but only that one would be "extra big".

At least, that's my understanding, or at the very least, that's how I'd do it.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Pater Patriae



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24687 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Senate email shut down?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:

>
>
> That was no error. The senate at novaroma.org address has indeed
> been shut down due to the amount of spam received at that address. I
> don't know if an alternate method of communicating with the senate is
> in the works or not. Se nd me your report and I will post it on the
> senate list for you.
>

Ave,

There is a web form for contacts, though it dosen't seem that all of
the links have been replaced yet.


here is the link is for the senate
http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php?to=senate,

You can use the drop down menu in the first line to contact any of the
groups that had the old Nova Roma addresses. If you want to make
bookmarks out of the URL just replace the "senate" part with the
name(s) listed in the drop down menu for the groups that you need to
contact.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24688 From: Denise Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: New Citizen
Salve,

My name is Fausta Martiana Minervalis, and I'm both honored and
delighted to be accepted as a new citizen of Nova Roma, and a member
of Gens Martiana. I'm mainly interested in the Religio, and in the
arts and sciences. I first posted a while back as "Eutropia", but now
I have a name that's not only "proper", but I'm much happier with.
I'll be doing more studying than posting for a while (so I'll be more
able to make worthwhile contributions), and I hope to be an active,
and worthy, member of the community. (I would also welcome any and
all advice and suggestions!)

Vale,

Fausta Martiana Minervalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24689 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: XVII Kalendae Quinctilis
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem XVII Kalendae Quinctilis, the Feria Quinquatra
Minuscula, and the ritual of Vesta Clauditur; the day is fastus. The
Feria Quinquatra Minuscula continued. The ritual of Vesta Clauditur was
the ceremonial cleaning of the temple of Vesta, which concluded the
rites to Vesta begun on Nonae Iunii.

Tomorrow is ante diem XVI Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24690 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve,

Interesting distribution!

> Region 1 Eastern North America.
> Region 2 Northern Europe.
> Region 3 Western North America.
> Region 4 Southern Europe.


And SOUTH America? Brazil, Argentina? I´d said South America?
I´d say SOUTH HEMISPHERE? Australia?

And we from south hemisphere? Forgotten?

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Propraetor of Brasilia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
annual
> meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
>
> Region 1 Eastern North America.
> Region 2 Northern Europe.
> Region 3 Western North America.
> Region 4 Southern Europe.
>
> These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
> other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting would
be
> held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within region
> one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
>
> The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
> that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting because
> the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
year,
> in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
geographic
> areas when it's turn comes.
>
> Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit citizens
> by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
> travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
> logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting with
> many activities.
>
> Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the same
> time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be in
> the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
outdoor
> events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
>
> The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
> events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as
any
> Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental actions
can
> take place as well as the games.
>
> My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in July.
> This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition to
the
> Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi Apollinares,
so
> this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events during
> the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and the
> last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when governmental
> business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24691 From: Petrus Domitianus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: oath of office
Salvete!

I, Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus (Bartek Hildebranski) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and
the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus (Bartek
Hildebranski) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and
to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus (Bartek Hildebranski) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way
that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus (Bartek Hildebranski) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Petrus Domitianus Artorinus Longinus (Bartek Hildebranski) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Interpreter to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses
of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position
of Interpreter and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities
attendant thereto.

Valete bene!
Petrus Domitianus A.L.
Propraetor Venediae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24692 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Ave omnes

Just a little note about national gatherings and such. Official or not, I've the
firm intention of organizing a meeting for Nova Romans in Rome and for that to
become a yearly event. It will not be possible to have it this October as I
initially planned due conflicting events being organized by the Provincia, but
hopefully from Spring 2005 on...

Also, given that summer is here and with that touristic plans... I thought it
was understood, but just in case, if any Nova Roman is planning to visit the
ideal motherland, he/she can count on all the logistic support we can provide
here. At the very least, I knwo I can help in finding accomodations (but mind
you, Rome was and became even more in teh last years extremely expensive) and
the first directions about things to see and places where having meals and
icecreams...

valete (and leave a blank weekend in your schedule for next spring...)

DCF
PF Constantinia
Aedilis Urbis
Curator of the Codex Juris Novae Romae Constantini
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24693 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

There has been considerable talk about national gatherings, and meetings of Nova Romans. However, I would like to point out one very important point.

If a National Gathering is held and the Immortals are not honored then the event, in my opinion is without merit.

EVERY public/community action of the Romans was an opportunity to honor the Immortals, to hold a public event without honoring them is to exclude them.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/14/2004 8:09:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dom.con.fus@... writes:

> Just a little note about national gatherings and such. Official or not, I've the
> firm intention of organizing a meeting for Nova Romans in Rome and for that to
> become a yearly event. It will not be possible to have it this October as I
> initially planned due conflicting events being organized by
> the Provincia, but
> hopefully from Spring 2005 on...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24694 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve Propraetor,

When I first mentioned the idea in the Ludi thread I stated that I
wasn't sure how many citizens we have outside those four regions, but
that we would add other regions as Nova Roma grows and mentioned that
South America would likely become region 5.

We have to strike some balance regarding population. We couldn't very
well have South Asia as region 6 with one of the official meetings
because 1 or 2 people from India applied for citizenship.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Interesting distribution!
>
> > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > Region 3 Western North America.
> > Region 4 Southern Europe.
>
>
> And SOUTH America? Brazil, Argentina? I´d said South America?
> I´d say SOUTH HEMISPHERE? Australia?
>
> And we from south hemisphere? Forgotten?
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Propraetor of Brasilia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> annual
> > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> >
> > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > Region 3 Western North America.
> > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> >
> > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
> > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting would
> be
> > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within region
> > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> >
> > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
> > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting because
> > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> year,
> > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> geographic
> > areas when it's turn comes.
> >
> > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit citizens
> > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
> > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
> > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting with
> > many activities.
> >
> > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the same
> > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be in
> > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> outdoor
> > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> >
> > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
> > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as
> any
> > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental actions
> can
> > take place as well as the games.
> >
> > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in July.
> > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition to
> the
> > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi Apollinares,
> so
> > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events during
> > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and the
> > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when governmental
> > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24695 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve,

Excelent! I was starting to fell a bit forgotten... however, if we
see the census, we will see South America has already a considerable
population, and the Common Market between Brazil and Argentina makes
easy the moving of citizens throught its boundaries.

Vale bene,
L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salve Propraetor,
>
> When I first mentioned the idea in the Ludi thread I stated that I
> wasn't sure how many citizens we have outside those four regions,
but
> that we would add other regions as Nova Roma grows and mentioned
that
> South America would likely become region 5.
>
> We have to strike some balance regarding population. We couldn't
very
> well have South Asia as region 6 with one of the official meetings
> because 1 or 2 people from India applied for citizenship.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Pontifex
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
> <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Interesting distribution!
> >
> > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> >
> >
> > And SOUTH America? Brazil, Argentina? I´d said South America?
> > I´d say SOUTH HEMISPHERE? Australia?
> >
> > And we from south hemisphere? Forgotten?
> >
> > Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> > L. Arminius Faustus
> > Propraetor of Brasilia
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > annual
> > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> > >
> > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > >
> > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
any
> > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
would
> > be
> > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
region
> > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > >
> > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
after
> > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
because
> > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> > year,
> > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > geographic
> > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > >
> > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
citizens
> > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
make
> > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
the
> > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
with
> > > many activities.
> > >
> > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the
same
> > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
be in
> > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > outdoor
> > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > >
> > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
the
> > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
as
> > any
> > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
actions
> > can
> > > take place as well as the games.
> > >
> > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
July.
> > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition
to
> > the
> > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
Apollinares,
> > so
> > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
during
> > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
and the
> > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
governmental
> > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24696 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salve,

No, I haven't forgotten our citizens in South America, nor have I
forgotten Australia or any of the citizens who reside outside of any
currently organized provinces. I Was just concetrating on areas where
I knew there were already enough citizens to make a national meeting a
possibility.

Of course the Senate would have the final say in how many regions
there are and where they will be. I'm just putting out some ideas to
see what the citizens think of them. For now this a rough draft rather
than a finished proposal.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Pontifex

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Excelent! I was starting to fell a bit forgotten... however, if we
> see the census, we will see South America has already a considerable
> population, and the Common Market between Brazil and Argentina makes
> easy the moving of citizens throught its boundaries.
>
> Vale bene,
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > Salve Propraetor,
> >
> > When I first mentioned the idea in the Ludi thread I stated that I
> > wasn't sure how many citizens we have outside those four regions,
> but
> > that we would add other regions as Nova Roma grows and mentioned
> that
> > South America would likely become region 5.
> >
> > We have to strike some balance regarding population. We couldn't
> very
> > well have South Asia as region 6 with one of the official meetings
> > because 1 or 2 people from India applied for citizenship.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Pontifex
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
> > <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > Interesting distribution!
> > >
> > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > >
> > >
> > > And SOUTH America? Brazil, Argentina? I´d said South America?
> > > I´d say SOUTH HEMISPHERE? Australia?
> > >
> > > And we from south hemisphere? Forgotten?
> > >
> > > Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> > > L. Arminius Faustus
> > > Propraetor of Brasilia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > > <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > >
> > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> > > annual
> > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> > > >
> > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > >
> > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have
> any
> > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
> would
> > > be
> > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
> region
> > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > >
> > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in
> after
> > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
> because
> > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> > > year,
> > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> > > geographic
> > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
> citizens
> > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and
> make
> > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because
> the
> > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
> with
> > > > many activities.
> > > >
> > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the
> same
> > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should
> be in
> > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> > > outdoor
> > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of
> the
> > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well
> as
> > > any
> > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
> actions
> > > can
> > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > >
> > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
> July.
> > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition
> to
> > > the
> > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> Apollinares,
> > > so
> > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
> during
> > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus,
> and the
> > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> governmental
> > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24697 From: vipasaniamagna Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete;
> in Europe we already have a national gathering once a year, it is
> the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and already we
are
> thinking of sites for next year.
> As an American I admire what the cives here are doing, real life
> get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through Academia
Thules,
> I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are eager to
> visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow Nova
> Romans.
> I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
>
> I think you need to form convivium right where you are. How many
> cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get together to
> learn Latin?
> In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is Columbia
> University, New York University, Hunter College, and Brooklyn
College
> all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> I think with diligence you could have many active local and
then
> national events.
> bene valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma holding an
> annual
> > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The regions were,
> >
> > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > Region 3 Western North America.
> > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> >
> > These regions would only exist to ensure that the meetings were
> > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't have any
> > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the meeting
would
> be
> > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would also be
> > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province within
region
> > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> >
> > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to hold the
> > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming in after
> > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first meeting
because
> > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North America one
> year,
> > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates between
> geographic
> > areas when it's turn comes.
> >
> > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur should be
> > determined at least two years in advance. This will benifit
citizens
> > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions, and make
> > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will become
> > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope because the
> > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a meeting
with
> > many activities.
> >
> > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place at the
same
> > time each year to make long term planning possible. It should be
in
> > the summer so that we can have as much geographic diversity as
> > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or attend
> outdoor
> > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> >
> > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be part of the
> > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as well as
> any
> > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that Govermental
actions
> can
> > take place as well as the games.
> >
> > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi Apollinares in
July.
> > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In addition
to
> the
> > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
Apollinares,
> so
> > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of events
during
> > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies Nefastus, and
the
> > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
governmental
> > business could be taken care of in addition to the festivities.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > Pontifex

Salvete!
Is there a directory of Nova Romans so we can find out if there are
any Nova Romans in the area? I'm moving to Houston, Texanensis, and
wonder if any Nova Romans live in that area? Vipsania
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24698 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salvete Quirites, et salve Vipsania,

vipasaniamagna wrote:

> Is there a directory of Nova Romans so we can find out if there are
> any Nova Romans in the area? I'm moving to Houston, Texanensis, and
> wonder if any Nova Romans live in that area? Vipsania

Because of privacy issues, we don't offer public information about the
specific locations of our citizens. You could find out who lives in
Texas easily enough, but not who's in Houston or Dallas or San Angelo.

But you can join the provincial mailing list for your province, and just
ask people.

Valete Quirites,

-- Marinus (still happily reminiscing on this weekend's Roman Days)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24699 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Salve !

Welcome to an another "Minervalis" citizen ! ;)

Vale !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Denise" <pazuzuhammer@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> My name is Fausta Martiana Minervalis, and I'm both honored and
> delighted to be accepted as a new citizen of Nova Roma, and a member
> of Gens Martiana. I'm mainly interested in the Religio, and in the
> arts and sciences. I first posted a while back as "Eutropia", but now
> I have a name that's not only "proper", but I'm much happier with.
> I'll be doing more studying than posting for a while (so I'll be more
> able to make worthwhile contributions), and I hope to be an active,
> and worthy, member of the community. (I would also welcome any and
> all advice and suggestions!)
>
> Vale,
>
> Fausta Martiana Minervalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24700 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: African soldiers patroled Hadrian's Wall
This comes from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/11/nswall11.xml . I thought it was absolutely fascinating. Enjoy!

-FVG

Borders folk may be descended from Africans

Families who have lived in the English-Scottish Borders for generations could be descended from African soldiers who patrolled Hadrian's Wall nearly 2,000 years ago.

Archaeologists say there is compelling evidence that a 500-strong unit of Moors manned a fort near Carlisle in the third century AD.
Richard Benjamin, an archaeologist at Liverpool University who has studied the history of black Britons, believes many would have settled and raised families.

"When you talk about Romans in Britain, most people think about blue eyes and pale complexions," he said. "But the reality was very different."

Writing in the journal British Archaeology, Mr Benjamin describes a fourth century inscription discovered in Beaumount, two miles from the remains of the Aballava fort at Burgh by Sands. The inscription refers to the "numerus of Aurelian Moors" - a unit of North Africans, probably named after the emperor Marcus Aurelius.

The unit is also mentioned in the Notitia Dignitatum, a Roman list of officials and dignitaries. It describes the prefect of the "numeri Maurorum Aurelianorum, Aballaba".

The unit was probably mustered in the Roman province of Mauretania, in modern-day Morocco, by the emperor Septimus Severus and arrived in Britain in the second or third centuries AD. Aballava lay at the western end of Hadrian's Wall in Cumbria.

Mr Benjamin suspects that the unit would have been blooded in battles in Germany and the Danube where more inscriptions refer to a unit of Moors. Their number is unknown, but the fort could have held up to 500 men.

"There was freedom of movement for civilians and those in administration of the armed forces. Discharge certificates indicate that the veteran soldiers settled in Britain," he said. "Soldiers would have had plenty of money to spend in native settlements on the outskirts of the forts. They would have sought entertainment in brothels. Many would probably have wanted more permanent relationships."

Mr Benjamin is calling for a major study of black Roman Britons. He believes that DNA tests of locals could reveal genetic links with modern-day north Africans, while skeletons of Romans found in the area might contain telltale clues to their childhood origins.

Buildings in the village may have been built from recycled Roman materials. Some might be of African origin, he said.

The unit is likely to have been composed of Berbers from North Africa, but may also have had darker-skinned soldiers from Nubia.

In 1989, archaeologists discovered a 1,900-year-old wooden sculpture of a black African head in London carved in the first century.

Contemporary records also point to Africans living in Britain during the Roman occupation. The emperor Septimus Severus is reported to have been approached by a black African soldier while he crossed Hadrian's Wall on his return from a battle in Scotland.

In South Shields, a Roman tombstone refers to a 20-year-old "Moor by race, the freed slave of Numerians".



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24701 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Fl Vedius Germanicus Novaromanii et Gn Equitio Marino S.P.D.



Salvete,



> -----Original Message-----
*From:* Gnaeus Equitius Marinus [mailto:gawne@...]
*Sent:* Monday, June 14, 2004 12:44 PM
*To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: National Gathering

>

> Salvete Quirites, et salve Vipsania,
>
> vipasaniamagna wrote:
>
> > Is there a directory of Nova Romans so we can find out if there are
> > any Nova Romans in the area? I'm moving to Houston, Texanensis, and
> > wonder if any Nova Romans live in that area? Vipsania
>
> Because of privacy issues, we don't offer public information about the
> specific locations of our citizens. You could find out who lives in
> Texas easily enough, but not who's in Houston or Dallas or San Angelo.
>
> But you can join the provincial mailing list for your province, and just
> ask people.
>
> Valete Quirites,
>
> -- Marinus (still happily reminiscing on this weekend's Roman Days)



Here�s an idea; perhaps (once we get a full-time Curator Araneum, that is), we could change the album civium somewhat. Include a section that says �Warning�any information you enter below will be visible to others� or somesuch. It would be completely voluntary, where citizens can put up more information about themselves; city, interests, etc.



It might make finding others that are local or who are interested in a particular topic a bit easier; I�m sure some folks don�t even know that a provincial email list for their area exists.



Ah, yes, Roman Days. This past weekend was as fine a time as I�ve had in NR. There really is no substitute for pressing the flesh and meeting your fellow cives face-to-face.



Valete,



Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Pater Patriae





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24702 From: maria rotella Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Ave
I a new citizien. My name's Octavia Sentia Caesaria and I'm interested to Politic and roman's culture


...

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24703 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizen
Salve Octavia Sentia,

Octavia Sentia Caesaria wrote:

> I a new citizien. My name's Octavia Sentia Caesaria
> and I'm interested to Politic and roman's culture

You've come to the right place! Welcome. What particular political and
cultural matters are you interested in?

Vale,

--
Gn. Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24704 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: New Citizens
Salvete Fausta et Octavia,

Welcome to Nova Roma and this main list. I hope you both have an
interesting time here where there is a wealth of knowledge. There
are also other groups within Nova Roma that cover everything from
religion and politics to ancient cooking. Please do not hesitate to
ask any questions or help for finding your way around. Citizens here
will be more than glad to assist you.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24705 From: Samantha Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
I am still looking forward to the day, myself, when I will be able to
at least attend a provincial gathering, much less a national one.
Though I am all for the idea :).
Being in Alaska it is more difficult for me to get to gatherings in
my province simply for getting around requires airfair. Lacking the
advantage of being able to hop the greyhound (which was nice when I
lived in Washington... I did that a couple of times). Being one who
is way out in the boonies so to speak, I can sympathise with those
areas that are outside of provinces :)

Again what an excellent idea.

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> No, I haven't forgotten our citizens in South America, nor have I
> forgotten Australia or any of the citizens who reside outside of any
> currently organized provinces. I Was just concetrating on areas
where
> I knew there were already enough citizens to make a national
meeting a
> possibility.
>
> Of course the Senate would have the final say in how many regions
> there are and where they will be. I'm just putting out some ideas to
> see what the citizens think of them. For now this a rough draft
rather
> than a finished proposal.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Pontifex
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24706 From: Samantha Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Sometimes international travel simply is not possible for many folks.
For myself, yes I would love to someday see Italy when I have the
financial oppertunity. But that considers alot of airfair on my part.
To get to Boston which you quoted here.. I would have to first fly
from Alaska to Seattle and then get a transfer flight to the east
coast. That there is a fullday of flying and would be around 600
dollars most likely. Then adding cost to fly from the east coast to
Europe. Not to mention being able to have money available for food,
transportation and accomidations. All in all that is alot of money.
And I am sure that I am not the only person on a rather meager supply
of money, between working and schooling and being a single mother. It
is not all that easy to hop a plane to get to Europe. Europe is on my
someday list, I would have better chances attending gatherings that
are closer. I have yet to even get to a provincial gathering, and
most likely a gathering would be somewhere in that general area
before I had the chance to do so.

So it is not about not wanting to see roman ruins and monuments,
someday I will, but rather about praticality of being able to
actually attend anytime in the foreseeable future. I am sure I am not
the only person who would have a difficult time flying to Europe to
attend. I think the rotation idea is excellent in that those of us
who someday will be able to make it to other places, it still allows
us a chance to attend at least some of the other national gatherings
rather then being discounted for inability to travel great distances.
Fortunately citizenship is not based on the size of one's pocketbook
*lol*!! :) :) :)

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete;
> considering that a round trip ticket from Boston to Dublin, is
about
> $300, and flights to Spain, Germany can be about 35 euros, due to
> lovely Ryanair I haven't the vaguest idea why you suddenly don't
want
> to see all the temples, ampitheatres, aqueducts, towns available
all
> over the continent and that includes Turkey, Tunisia, Syria and
Libya!
> Though I love the US, Hibernia and have many Australian friends
I
> don't see the point of spending $1,000 to visit a country with no
> Roman ruins, its just silly.
>
> Please just attempt one convivium in your area and get the group
to
> speak Latin. I've proposed to the Hiberni thanks to Flavia
> Scholastica that we purchase "Conversational Latin for Oral
> Proficiency" by John Traupman, there is also a tape.
> We can practice Latin on a road trip to a site, in a cafe, or
when
> busy with work, on the internet in Latin emails. This is the road
to
> making Nova Roma.
> valete
> M.Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > Then surely you have no objections to a chance to meet even more
> > people at Nova Roma's Offical National meeting each year.
> >
> > Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > Salve;
> > > I think you misheard, I'm an American, I've met a lot of Nova
> > > Romans and will meet more in Boston, there is no factionalism
at
> all,
> > > just lots of good fellowship!!!
> > > I suggest we all work at making friendships all over Nova
> Roma. I
> > > can travel to three continents on the good friends I've made.
> > > bene vale
> > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> <drusus@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Salve,
> > > >
> > > > A European Rally by it's very nature is a regional meeting,
not
> a
> > > > National meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Regional, Provincial and Local meetings are important, but if
> that
> > > is
> > > > all we have it could lead to geographic factionalism. It's
also
> > > > important that we have true national meetings sponsered by
Nova
> > > Roma's
> > > > central government as a unifying force in Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
> > > > <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Salvete;
> > > > > in Europe we already have a national gathering once a
year,
> it
> > > is
> > > > > the NR European Rally and this year is in Segovia and
already
> we
> > > are
> > > > > thinking of sites for next year.
> > > > > As an American I admire what the cives here are doing,
real
> > > life
> > > > > get-togethers, oppidum, Rallys, scholarship through
Academia
> > > Thules,
> > > > > I have so far only a few cives in Hibernia but they are
eager
> to
> > > > > visit sites in Britannia, Germania, Italia and meet fellow
> Nova
> > > > > Romans.
> > > > > I have friends in Thule, Britannia, Hispania, Italia.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you need to form convivium right where you are.
> How
> > > many
> > > > > cives are there in Atlanta where you live? Do you get
> together to
> > > > > learn Latin?
> > > > > In NYC area where Vedius Germanicus lives there is
Columbia
> > > > > University, New York University, Hunter College, and
Brooklyn
> > > College
> > > > > all with Classics Departments. Excellent places to recruit.
> > > > > I think with diligence you could have many active local
> and
> > > then
> > > > > national events.
> > > > > bene valete
> > > > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > > <drusus@b...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeasterday I mentioned the possibility of Nova Roma
holding
> an
> > > > > annual
> > > > > > meeting, and rotating it to different regions. The
regions
> were,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Region 1 Eastern North America.
> > > > > > Region 2 Northern Europe.
> > > > > > Region 3 Western North America.
> > > > > > Region 4 Southern Europe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These regions would only exist to ensure that the
meetings
> were
> > > > > > rotated on as fair a basis as possible, and they wouldn't
> have
> > > any
> > > > > > other purposes. If it was Region one's turn then the
> meeting
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > held in one of the provinces in that region. It would
also
> be
> > > > > > desirable to hold the meeting in a different province
> within
> > > region
> > > > > > one when it came time for the next meeting in that region.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fair thing to do for selecting the first region to
hold
> the
> > > > > > meeting would be to draw lots, with the rotation comming
in
> > > after
> > > > > > that. We would only want to draw lots for the first
meeting
> > > because
> > > > > > the rotation is set up to have the meeting in North
America
> one
> > > > > year,
> > > > > > in Europe the next and each contitent also rotates
between
> > > > > geographic
> > > > > > areas when it's turn comes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Exactly where in each region the meeting will occur
should
> be
> > > > > > determined at least two years in advance. This will
benifit
> > > citizens
> > > > > > by insuring that they have a long time to plan vactions,
> and
> > > make
> > > > > > travel arrangements if they desire to attend. This will
> become
> > > > > > increassingly important as the meetings grow in scope
> because
> > > the
> > > > > > logistics will have to be set up well in advance for a
> meeting
> > > with
> > > > > > many activities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Timming is also important. The meeting should take place
at
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > time each year to make long term planning possible. It
> should
> > > be in
> > > > > > the summer so that we can have as much geographic
diversity
> as
> > > > > > possible. I certainly wouldn't want to try to stage or
> attend
> > > > > outdoor
> > > > > > events wearing a Toga in Chicago or Maine in January. ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The meeting should be during Ludi so that these can be
part
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > events. The timing should also include Dies Comitialis as
> well
> > > as
> > > > > any
> > > > > > Dies Nefastus associated with the Ludi so that
Govermental
> > > actions
> > > > > can
> > > > > > take place as well as the games.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Personal sugestion would be during the Ludi
Apollinares
> in
> > > July.
> > > > > > This Ludi runs 8 days from July 6th through the 13. In
> addition
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Races there were also cultural events during the Ludi
> > > Apollinares,
> > > > > so
> > > > > > this would give us the greatest possible diversity of
> events
> > > during
> > > > > > the meeting. The first 4 days of the Ludi are Dies
> Nefastus,
> > > and the
> > > > > > last 4 are Dies Comitialis so there would be days when
> > > governmental
> > > > > > business could be taken care of in addition to the
> festivities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > L. Sicinius Drusus
> > > > > > Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24707 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Updating the Tabularium
Salvete Omnes:

As Junior Plebeian Aedile, it's been brought to my attention that a number of laws have not been posted to the Tabularium, specifically the LEX ARMINIA DE OFFICIIS AEDILIUM PLEBIS, the LEX ARMINIA SENATORIA, the LEX ARMINIA DE RATIONE COMITIORUM PLEBIS TRIBUTORUM, the LEX ARMINIA DE MINISTRIS PROVINCIALIBUS, and the LEX EQUITIA DE PRAETORIS OCTAVIVS NORICUS, the texts of which were contained in messages #414 and 415 on the
NovaRoma-Announce group list.

Whew.

So, what's the deal. Quite frankly, I've other matters nipping at my heels and I can't track down every officer and function of said officer without reaching the point where a razor on the wrist would be an acceptable alternative, so I am invoking my Potestas to ask the questions:

(1) Why are the above laws not listed on the Tabularium. Earlier today, the most current entry was the LEX LABIENA DE OBNUNTATIONE, though, as of 5:00 PM (EST), two more laws had been added: the LEX EQUITIA DE CORRIGENDIS LEGUM ERRATIS, and the LEX ARMINIA DE CURSO HONORUM. I applaud these additions. Bravo! What of the rest of the previously listed laws?

(2) That's it. I've been told the upload of files into the Tabularium is the duty of Curator Araneum.

I think most Nova-Romans would like to consider the Tabularium, in part, as a dependable repository and reference source
of the LEGES binding upon Nova-Romans. To that end, I believe it is important to determine:

(1) What laws are missing from the Tabularium, and;

(2) Why.

If my tone seems brusque, please, PLEASE understand it is not meant to be flippant. Ceremony is a useless commodity in a virtual group, and as such, we can't always stand on ceremony unless we're content to drown in it. I was elected by the Plebs to get things done and not to suck up to the Powers That Be, so I can afford to be brusque. At lease until the next election.

I would very much appreciate any and all information on the foregoing. I welcome your opinions, your lectures, and your
criticisms: that's what I'm here for. Send your comments to jwalzer5@....

For all those reading this far, you have my thanks; and my admiration. I remain, I hope, your friend.

Valete Omnes.

L. Suetonius Nerva


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24708 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Salve Illustris L. Suetonius Nerva!

> (2) That's it. I've been told the upload of files into the
>Tabularium is the duty of Curator Araneum.

At the moment we don't have a Curator Araneum. Expect one to be
elected as soon as we may have a Comitia meeting according to which
days are allowed and when the auspices are favourable.

> If my tone seems brusque, please, PLEASE understand it is not
>meant to be flippant. Ceremony is a useless commodity in a virtual
>group, and as such, we can't always stand on ceremony unless we're
>content to drown in it. I was elected by the Plebs to get things
>done and not to suck up to the Powers That Be, so I can afford to be
>brusque. At lease until the next election.

No problem for me, but I still think that it doesn't hurt to be as
kind as possible as we have seen this list go off into flames over
small things. I am sure that You and I can take it, but isn't it
better to be cautious? I have cc this to the Consuls be sure that
their will see your mail in the flood of mails that they get. Ihope
this helps.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24709 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus L. Suetonio Nervae et Omnibus Civibus S.P.D.

Salvete Omnes, et Salve Luci Suetoni,

> So, what's the deal. Quite frankly, I've other matters nipping at my heels and I can't track down every officer and function of said officer without reaching the point where a razor on the wrist would be an acceptable alternative, so I am invoking my Potestas to ask the questions:

> (1) Why are the above laws not listed on the Tabularium. Earlier today, the most current entry was the LEX LABIENA DE OBNUNTATIONE, though, as of 5:00 PM (EST), two more laws had been added: the LEX EQUITIA DE CORRIGENDIS LEGUM ERRATIS, and the LEX ARMINIA DE CURSO HONORUM. I applaud these additions. Bravo! What of the rest of the previously listed laws?

As it just so happens, I'm the one who put those two in the Tabularium, but some pressing business came up in the middle of finishing, so I had to stop for a moment. The remaining leges from the most recent vote will be in the Tabularium within the next hour, if not less.

>
> (2) That's it. I've been told the upload of files into the Tabularium is the duty of Curator Araneum.

If my reading of the Lex Arminia de Officiis is correct, Aedile, it is now your responsibility to make sure the leges proposed by the Tribunes make it into the Tabularium, so that negates your point here.

> I think most Nova-Romans would like to consider the Tabularium, in part, as a dependable repository and reference source
> of the LEGES binding upon Nova-Romans. To that end, I believe it is important to determine:
>
> (1) What laws are missing from the Tabularium

The following are missing from the Tabularium:

Lex Arminia Senatoria
Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialibus

> (2) Why.

Let me begin with this: If my understanding of the law around here is correct, the Lex Arminia de Ratione is null and void any which way you look at it, simply because it has to do strictly with a plebeian matter and went to the Comitia Populi Tributa instead of the Comitia Plebis Tributa. In order for it to have any legal force whatsoever, it needs to be proposed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa and ratified by the plebeian assembly. Beyond that, first, there is no Curator Araneum. Secondly, we are a volunteer organization, and unless you intend to format and publish all the legal documents into the Tabularium yourself, you might want to be a little more understanding. Also, keep in mind that no web team was appointed this year, so again, we are all doing this in whatever spare time we can muster. We try to keep things timely, as does, I truly believe, every magistrate and scribe, but sometimes things get backed up. And, as a college student with two jobs, time does run very thin. I understand the reasoning for your tone, so please, understand why things take a little more time to get done than we would like. Frankly, there are not enough people and not enough time. I know the reasons for both, so I try to work with them. Please do the same.

In any case, I am working on getting the above leges into the Tabularium. Be patient.

Valete,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24710 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium, Addition
Salvete Iterum Omnes,

To add one more thing, Paragraph I.D. of the Constitution states that only the Comitia Centuriata may amend the Constitution, and such must be approved by a 2/3 majority of the Senate. If my understanding of the law is right again, adding duties to the job description of a constitutionally empowered magistrate is, in effect, a constitutional amendment, or should be. That being so, the Lex Arminia de Officiis Aedilium Plebis is also null and void on those grounds. If nothing else, since the Plebeian Aediles are Plebeian magistrates, this is a law which should have gone at least to the Plebeian Assembly, and not to the Comitia Populi. Perhaps the Praetors or the Senate can help in determining what should have been done here. Perhaps I'm wrong. We'll see what comes of things.

Valete,

Metellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24711 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium
Salve Q. Caecilius Metellus:

My post posed questions. It did not, and was never intended, to impute, blame.

Blame implies error, and I don't believe there is anything in my original post claiming error.

I do not doubt your zeal, Caecilius. The very fact of Nova-Roma's existence presupposes
a network of hard-working and selfless officials such as yourself. I am sorry if my original
post, intended to gather information, unintentionally gave offense, but I don't believe there
was a single accusatory line in that post.

Vale.

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Q. Caecilius Metellus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium


Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus L. Suetonio Nervae et Omnibus Civibus S.P.D.

Salvete Omnes, et Salve Luci Suetoni,

> So, what's the deal. Quite frankly, I've other matters nipping at my heels and I can't track down every officer and function of said officer without reaching the point where a razor on the wrist would be an acceptable alternative, so I am invoking my Potestas to ask the questions:

> (1) Why are the above laws not listed on the Tabularium. Earlier today, the most current entry was the LEX LABIENA DE OBNUNTATIONE, though, as of 5:00 PM (EST), two more laws had been added: the LEX EQUITIA DE CORRIGENDIS LEGUM ERRATIS, and the LEX ARMINIA DE CURSO HONORUM. I applaud these additions. Bravo! What of the rest of the previously listed laws?

As it just so happens, I'm the one who put those two in the Tabularium, but some pressing business came up in the middle of finishing, so I had to stop for a moment. The remaining leges from the most recent vote will be in the Tabularium within the next hour, if not less.

>
> (2) That's it. I've been told the upload of files into the Tabularium is the duty of Curator Araneum.

If my reading of the Lex Arminia de Officiis is correct, Aedile, it is now your responsibility to make sure the leges proposed by the Tribunes make it into the Tabularium, so that negates your point here.

> I think most Nova-Romans would like to consider the Tabularium, in part, as a dependable repository and reference source
> of the LEGES binding upon Nova-Romans. To that end, I believe it is important to determine:
>
> (1) What laws are missing from the Tabularium

The following are missing from the Tabularium:

Lex Arminia Senatoria
Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialibus

> (2) Why.

Let me begin with this: If my understanding of the law around here is correct, the Lex Arminia de Ratione is null and void any which way you look at it, simply because it has to do strictly with a plebeian matter and went to the Comitia Populi Tributa instead of the Comitia Plebis Tributa. In order for it to have any legal force whatsoever, it needs to be proposed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa and ratified by the plebeian assembly. Beyond that, first, there is no Curator Araneum. Secondly, we are a volunteer organization, and unless you intend to format and publish all the legal documents into the Tabularium yourself, you might want to be a little more understanding. Also, keep in mind that no web team was appointed this year, so again, we are all doing this in whatever spare time we can muster. We try to keep things timely, as does, I truly believe, every magistrate and scribe, but sometimes things get backed up. And, as a college student with two jobs, time does run very thin. I understand the reasoning for your tone, so please, understand why things take a little more time to get done than we would like. Frankly, there are not enough people and not enough time. I know the reasons for both, so I try to work with them. Please do the same.

In any case, I am working on getting the above leges into the Tabularium. Be patient.

Valete,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24712 From: John Walzer Date: 2004-06-14
Subject: Re: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium
Salve Caeso Fabius Quintilianus:

Your quick and courteous reply is exactly what I would expect from an illustrious Roman.

I welcome your assistance. I would add that sometimes flames are exactly what is required to
clear out the deadwood. Any that would misinterpret an honest attempt to address the issues
might be unsalvageable.

Optime Vale.

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Gnaeus Salix Astur ; Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: [SPAM!!!] Re: [Nova-Roma] Updating the Tabularium


Salve Illustris L. Suetonius Nerva!

> (2) That's it. I've been told the upload of files into the
>Tabularium is the duty of Curator Araneum.

At the moment we don't have a Curator Araneum. Expect one to be
elected as soon as we may have a Comitia meeting according to which
days are allowed and when the auspices are favourable.

> If my tone seems brusque, please, PLEASE understand it is not
>meant to be flippant. Ceremony is a useless commodity in a virtual
>group, and as such, we can't always stand on ceremony unless we're
>content to drown in it. I was elected by the Plebs to get things
>done and not to suck up to the Powers That Be, so I can afford to be
>brusque. At lease until the next election.

No problem for me, but I still think that it doesn't hurt to be as
kind as possible as we have seen this list go off into flames over
small things. I am sure that You and I can take it, but isn't it
better to be cautious? I have cc this to the Consuls be sure that
their will see your mail in the flood of mails that they get. Ihope
this helps.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24713 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus Novae Romae SPD:

With the resignation of Marcus Octavius Germanicus as Censor, a vacancy
exists for a Censor Suffectus to serve the remainder of Germanicus' term
of office.

Fully qualified candidates interested in serving as Censor should
contact me, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, by private e-mail to establish your
candidacy. Once candidacy has been established a public announcement of
candidacy to the main Nova Roma mailing list should follow.

Given the requirement for the Censor suffectus to step in and deal with
duties quickly, I would particularly hope that Senators with prior
service as Censor would be willing to step forward to take on this
responsibility.

This Call for Candidates shall extend for 120 hours after its initial
posting.

Valete Quirites,

--
Gn. Equitius Marinus
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24714 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Salvete Novae Romae:

I have forwarded this note from the list to my private box, and back to you,
hence the >>'s :) Regarding the qualifications for Censor, may I refer you
to the prevailing Lex on the matter:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-02-26-i.html

To wit, the Lex Vedia Curso Honourum

"No individual may assume the office of Censor,Consul or Praetor, who has
not previously completed atleast 6 months of a term as one of the ordinarii
(not including the Apparitores)"

The lex is essentially silent on the matter of the Vingintesexviri, who are
identified under a separate category from the Ordinarii and the
Extraordinarii...but they are not elected, and as I read the lex, this is
this issue..now I am going by the language as it is written.

You may read the remainder of the language for yourself at the above url.

These are the qualifications for becoming Censor under current law.

So...you may have been a Quaestor, Consul...a Praetor...a Censor who
resigned....if you have served six months in an elected position (the
ordinarii), you may stand in your white stola, toga and apply for Censor. I
do not say this without cautioning you that it is a two-year commitment, and
not one to be taken lightly, but, you do not have to be a Senator or a
previous Censor or Consul to be qualified under prevailing legislation.

Indeed, there are a handful of persons qualified under law who would make
excellent cenors...caring, loving people, who have served six months as an
ordinarii.

With respect to Consul Marinus, I am not sure where being a Senator comes
into play, and frankly, that, in my view has little to do with the issue,
except to express subjective sentiments which are best left in a separate
announcement, no offense intended. We all would like to see certain persons
in the position of Censor, and I guess some of them are in the Senate, but
being in the Senate, doesn't really 'lend' more experience to being a
Censor, I would say, that being a 'Governor", in the trenches, separating
the Romans from the Barbarians, face-to-face. But governors are no more
qualified than veteran and/or favoured Senators, according to the prevailing
Lex Vedia.

Frankly , there are some Censors who happen to be Senators, that I
personally do not wish to see in the office again, but I prefer to keep this
out of an objective announcement, but that is just 'me'.

In closing, quirites, do read the law, and if you are considering running
for Censor, the Senate standing has really nothing to do with how well your
commitment and virtue may be received, in either a legal or a electorial
standing.

Just giving you the facts...

P. Minucia Tiberia





/
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
>wrote:
>Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus Novae Romae SPD:
>
>With the resignation of Marcus Octavius Germanicus as Censor, a vacancy
>exists for a Censor Suffectus to serve the remainder of Germanicus' term
>of office.
>
>Fully qualified candidates interested in serving as Censor should
>contact me, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, by private e-mail to establish your
>candidacy. Once candidacy has been established a public announcement of
>candidacy to the main Nova Roma mailing list should follow.
>
>Given the requirement for the Censor suffectus to step in and deal with
>duties quickly, I would particularly hope that Senators with prior
>service as Censor would be willing to step forward to take on this
>responsibility.
>
>This Call for Candidates shall extend for 120 hours after its initial
>posting.
>
>Valete Quirites,
>
>--
>Gn. Equitius Marinus
>Consul
>--- End forwarded message ---
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24715 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: CORRECTION: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
---Salvete Novae Romae:

I was having a cerebral discharge of flatulence (a brain fa_rt)

A provincial governor who has served for six months is qualified for
Censor under the Lex Vedia as quoted below.

Apologies,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Minucia Tiberia"
<scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Novae Romae:
>
> I have forwarded this note from the list to my private box, and back
to you,
> hence the >>'s :) Regarding the qualifications for Censor, may I
refer you
> to the prevailing Lex on the matter:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-02-26-i.html
>
> To wit, the Lex Vedia Curso Honourum
>
> "No individual may assume the office of Censor,Consul or Praetor,
who has
> not previously completed atleast 6 months of a term as one of the
ordinarii
> (not including the Apparitores)"
>
> The lex is essentially silent on the matter of the Vingintesexviri,
who are
> identified under a separate category from the Ordinarii and the
> Extraordinarii...but they are not elected, and as I read the lex,
this is
> this issue..now I am going by the language as it is written.
>
> You may read the remainder of the language for yourself at the above
url.
>
> These are the qualifications for becoming Censor under current law.
>
> So...you may have been a Quaestor, Consul...a Praetor...a Censor who
> resigned....if you have served six months in an elected position (the
> ordinarii), you may stand in your white stola, toga and apply for
Censor. I
> do not say this without cautioning you that it is a two-year
commitment, and
> not one to be taken lightly, but, you do not have to be a Senator or a
> previous Censor or Consul to be qualified under prevailing legislation.
>
> Indeed, there are a handful of persons qualified under law who would
make
> excellent cenors...caring, loving people, who have served six months
as an
> ordinarii.
>
> With respect to Consul Marinus, I am not sure where being a Senator
comes
> into play, and frankly, that, in my view has little to do with the
issue,
> except to express subjective sentiments which are best left in a
separate
> announcement, no offense intended. We all would like to see certain
persons
> in the position of Censor, and I guess some of them are in the
Senate, but
> being in the Senate, doesn't really 'lend' more experience to being a
> Censor, I would say, that being a 'Governor", in the trenches,
separating
> the Romans from the Barbarians, face-to-face. But governors are no
more
> qualified than veteran and/or favoured Senators, according to the
prevailing
> Lex Vedia.
>
> Frankly , there are some Censors who happen to be Senators, that I
> personally do not wish to see in the office again, but I prefer to
keep this
> out of an objective announcement, but that is just 'me'.
>
> In closing, quirites, do read the law, and if you are considering
running
> for Censor, the Senate standing has really nothing to do with how
well your
> commitment and virtue may be received, in either a legal or a
electorial
> standing.
>
> Just giving you the facts...
>
> P. Minucia Tiberia
>
>
>
>
>
> /
> >
> >--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
> >wrote:
> >Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Quiritibus Novae Romae SPD:
> >
> >With the resignation of Marcus Octavius Germanicus as Censor, a vacancy
> >exists for a Censor Suffectus to serve the remainder of Germanicus'
term
> >of office.
> >
> >Fully qualified candidates interested in serving as Censor should
> >contact me, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, by private e-mail to establish
your
> >candidacy. Once candidacy has been established a public
announcement of
> >candidacy to the main Nova Roma mailing list should follow.
> >
> >Given the requirement for the Censor suffectus to step in and deal with
> >duties quickly, I would particularly hope that Senators with prior
> >service as Censor would be willing to step forward to take on this
> >responsibility.
> >
> >This Call for Candidates shall extend for 120 hours after its initial
> >posting.
> >
> >Valete Quirites,
> >
> >--
> >Gn. Equitius Marinus
> >Consul
> >--- End forwarded message ---
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24716 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: EDICTUM AEDILIS DE LUDIS TAUREI QUINQUENNALIBUS
EDICTUM AEDILIS DE LUDIS TAUREI QUINQUENNALIBUS

I. In accordance with the mos maiorum and in revival of an ancient rite
I proclaim that the Ludi Taurei Quinquennales shall be held on ante diem
VII Kalendae Quinctilis and ante diem VI Kalendae Quinctilis (June
25-26) to honour the Di Inferni.

II. Ludi circenses shall be held in connection with the Ludi Taurei
Quinquennales. Any entrant who wishes to participate in the Ludi
Circenses must send a subscription to G. Vipsansius Agrippa at
canadaoccidentalis@... by 00:01 Roman time on ante diem XI Kalendae
Quinctilis (June 21). Subscriptions are open from the publication of
this edictum. Each subscription must bear the subject header "Ludi
Circenses" and include the following information:

A. His/her name in Nova Roma;

B. The name of his/her driver;

C. The name of his/her chariot;

D. His/her tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals;

E. His/her tactics for the Finals;

F. The name of his/her "factio" or team (Albata, Praesina, Russata, or
Veneta);

G. Dirty actions against another factio in a specific round
(quarter-final, semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in
support of it (an entrant does not have to pay sesterces to commission a
dirty action, but doing so increases the chances of success);

H. Defence against dirty actions in a specific round (quarter-final,
semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in support of it (an
entrant does not have to pay sesterces to defend against a dirty action,
but doing so decreases the chances of success of the dirty action);

I. If sesterces from multiple entrants are pooled to take a dirty action
or defend against a dirty action, the subscription of each entrant of
the pool must so indicate.

III. The rules of the ludi circenses shall be those of the Edictum
Aedilicium de Ratione Ludorum Circensum appended below.

IV. This edictum shall take effect immediately.

Given on ante diem XVII Kalendae Quinctilis in the consulship of Cn.
Salix Astur and Gn. Equitius Marinus.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
_________________________________________

EDICTUM AEDILICIUM DE RATIONE LUDORUM CIRCENSUM

I. Any Nova Roman citizen or socius who is not under Aedilician sanction
may take part in the Ludi Circenses organised by the Aediles Curules.
Each citizen may enter no more than one chariot per ludi.

II. An entrant who wishes to participate in the Ludi Circenses must send
a subscription to G. Vipsansius Agrippa at canadaoccidentalis@...
no less than one week prior to the commencement of the ludi unless
otherwise specified by edictum. Each subscription must bear the subject
header "Ludi Circenses" and include the following information:

A. His/her name in Nova Roma;

B. The name of his/her driver;

C. The name of his/her chariot;

D. His/her tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals;

E. His/her tactics for the Finals;

F. The name of his/her "factio" or team (Albata, Praesina, Russata, or
Veneta);

G. Dirty actions against another factio in a specific round
(quarter-final, semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in
support of it (an entrant does not have to pay sesterces to commission a
dirty action, but doing so increases the chances of success);

H. Defence against dirty actions in a specific round (quarter-final,
semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in support of it (an
entrant does not have to pay sesterces to defend against a dirty action,
but doing so decreases the chances of success of the dirty action);

I. If sesterces from multiple entrants are pooled to take a dirty action
or defend against a dirty action, the subscription of each entrant of
the pool must so indicate.

III. Tactics: Four (4) race tactics are possible:

A. To hurry in the last laps

B. To pass the curves closely the "spina" of the circus.

C. To support a constant pace

D. To lash the rivals

E. To push the rivals to the wall of the circus

F. To hurry in the straight lines

IV. Dirty actions.

A. An entrant can try the assassination of the driver of a rival factio
or the sabotage of his/her chariot.

1. Assassination of the driver of a rival factio. The entrant must
specify which factio he/she attacks. The base chance of success is 30 %.
If the attempt fails it is is discovered and the name of the entrant who
commissioned the assassination and those who contributed sesterces in
support of the assassination will be announced and subject to
disciplinary action by the Aediles Curules. Such disciplinary action may
include disqualification from the current ludi, banning from future ludi
for a specified period of time, or banning from participation in the
ludi for the remainder of the year. The decision of the Aediles Curules
in such matters is final. If the attempt is successful, the player with
the murdered driver cannot take part in the race and the murderer
remains undiscovered.

2. Sabotage of a chariot. The entrant must specify which factio he/she
attacks. The base chance is 45 %. If the attempt is unsuccessful, it is
discovered and the name of the entrant who commissioned the
assassination and those who contributed sesterces in support of the
sabotage will be announced and subject to disciplinary action by the
Aediles Curules. Such disciplinary action may include disqualification
from the current ludi, banning from future ludi for a specified period
of time, or banning from participation in the ludi for the remainder of
the year. The decision of the Aediles Curules in such matters is final.
If the attempt is successful, the player with the broken chariot will
have an accident in the race.

B. Defence against and support for dirty actions. Each entrant shall
receive one hundred sesterces for each ludi. These sesterces may be used
in any round of any race, accumulated from race to race, or accumulated
from other entertainments (e.g., official-sponsored wagering on munera).
These sesterces are not redeemable in Nova Roman or any other currency
and may not be used outside the ways specified in this edictum. The
Aediles Curules shall record the number of sesterces held and expended
by each entrant and their computations shall be final and unappealable.
The sesterces may be expended in any of the following ways:

1. Application of one hundred sesterces by any entrant to defence of
his/her driver and chariot will render the driver and chariot immune for
one round in the ludi;

2. Entrants from the same factio may pool their sesterces for defence in
a round; for every one hundred sesterces pooled, the chance of success
of a dirty action against that factio is reduced by 5% in that round.

3. Entrants may pool their sesterces for offence in a round; for every
one hundred sesterces pooled, the chance of success of a dirty action
against the targeted factio is increased by 5% in that round.

V. Organisation of Competition.

A. There will be three rounds to each competition: quarter, semi-finals,
and final.

B. The competition will be for elimination in each round. Every race
will involve no more than four entrants.

C. In the Quarter rounds there will be one entrant from each factio in
each race, unless there are too few entrants from a factio to make this
possible. The first two first place entrants shall advance to the
semi-final round; the remaining two entrants will be eliminated.

D. In the Semifinal round the winners of the Quarter rounds shall
compete. The winning entrants of the Semi-final rounds shall advance to
the final.

E. In the Final round the four best players race; the first place
entrant shall be the winner of the ludi.

VI. Computation of victory.

A. Accidents.

1. Before doing the calculations of a race, the Aediles Curules
determine who has an accident. For it, they roll one dice 0-100 for
every chariot. The resultant number will be its percentage of accident:

- The drivers with tactics 1 will have 0 to 15 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 25 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.

- The drivers with tactics 2 will have 0 to 20 percentage of accident
always. 0 to 35 if there are one or more drivers with tactics 4 or 5.

- The drivers with tactics 3 will have 0 to 10 percentage always.

- The drivers with tactics 4 will have 0 to 15 percentage always. 0 to
25 if there are other drivers with tactics 4.

- The drivers with tactics 5 will have 0 to 15 always. 0 to 25 if there
are other drivers with tactics 5.

- The drivers with tactics 6 will have 0 to 5 percentage always. 0 to 20
if there are other drivers with tactics 4 or 5.

B. Calculation of the races.

1. The Aediles Curules shall determine whether any dirty actions are
successful. If a dirty action is determined to be successful, a chariot
shall be eliminated by lot from among the entrants of the targeted
factio and either declare the driver assassinated or that an accident
caused by sabotage has occurred.

2. After determining which chariots (if any) have been eliminated from a
race due to an accident, the Aediles Curules must calculate the order in
which the remaining teams finished the race.

3. The Aediles Curules will roll one die 0-10 for every entrant. This
will be the Value of Race (VR) of every car.

4. To know the final position of a chariot in the race the VR of every
player is divided by the sum of all the VR and the result is multiplied
by 50. This ewstablishes each entrant's Chance to Win (CW). For example,
if there is a race with 4 chariots with these VR: 6,5,4,2 then the first
chariot, with the VR 6, would have the following Chance to to Win: 6/17
(17 is the sum of 6+5+4+2) x 50 = 17.6 (rounding, 18). The CW of the
first chariot will be 18 points. The second chariot, with VR 5, would
have 5/17x50 = 14.7 (rounding, 15), therefore its CW is 15 points.

5. The tactics modify the CW of the following way:

Tactics 1) +6 points.

Tactics 2) +8 points.

Tactics 3) No points. The tactics 4 and 5 do not affect it.

Tactics 4) +2 points. The tactics 5 do not affect it.

Tactics 5) +2 points. The tactics 4 do not affect it.

Tactics 6) +4 points.

For example, the Aediles Curules assign each entrant a specific range of
numbers out of a series of 100 that is equal to the entrant's Chance to
Win. They assign these team ranges consecutively. In our sample race,
for example, Chariot 1's range (with tactics 2) would be 01 through 25
(18+7). Chariot 2's range (with tactics 4) would be 26 through 40.

6. In the final step the Aediles Curules will roll a die 0-100 to
determine the order of finish. The chariot within whose range the first
dice 0-100 roll falls is the team that finishes the race in first place.
The chariot within whose range the second dice 0-100 roll falls is the
team that finishes the race in second place. The chariot within whose
range the third D100 roll falls is the chariot that finishes the race in
third place, and so on. Once a chariot's position has been determined,
subsequent rolls that fall within its range are ignored and the Aediles
Curules roll again.

VII. Automatic computation of results by computer in accordance with the
rules established herein is permitted.

VIII. This edictum takes effect immediately.

Given on ante diem V Idus Martii in the consulship of Cn. Salix Astur
and Gn. Equitius Marinus.

G. Iulius Scaurus, Aedilis Curulis and M. Iulius Perusianus, Aedilis Curulis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24717 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
Gaius Modius Athanasius Quinto Caecilio Metello salutem dicit

I think you have done a fine job thus far, in everything you have done within Nova Roma and your efforts are appreciated. Without a full time webmaster it makes some things difficult within Nova Roma, and its a blessing to our Republic that you are still willing to do updates.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/14/2004 7:47:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, postumianus@... writes:

> Let me begin with this: If my understanding of the law around here is correct, the Lex Arminia de Ratione is null and void any which way you look at it, simply because it has to do strictly with a plebeian matter and went to the Comitia Populi Tributa instead of the Comitia Plebis Tributa. In order for it to have any legal force whatsoever, it needs to be proposed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa and ratified by the plebeian assembly. Beyond that, first, there is no Curator Araneum. Secondly, we are a volunteer organization, and unless you intend to format and publish all the legal documents into the Tabularium yourself, you might want to be a little more understanding. Also, keep in mind that no web team was appointed this year, so again, we are all doing this in whatever spare time we can muster. We try to keep things timely, as does, I truly believe, every magistrate and scribe, but sometimes things get backed up. And, as a college student with two jobs, time does run very thin. I understand the reasoning for your tone, so please, understand why things take a little more time to get done than we would like. Frankly, there are not enough people and not enough time. I know the reasons for both, so I try to work with them. Please do the same.
>
> In any case, I am working on getting the above leges into
> the Tabularium. Be patient.
>
> Valete,
>
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24718 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: ante diem XVII Kalendae Quinctilis
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem XVII Kalendae Quinctilis, the Feria Quinquatra
Minuscula, and the ritual of Vesta Clauditur; the day is fastus. The
Feria Quinquatra Minuscula continued. The ritual of Vesta Clauditur was
the ceremonial cleaning of the temple of Vesta, which concluded the
rites to Vesta begun on Nonae Iunii.

Tomorrow is ante diem XVI Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24719 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: (to senate) Roman Days Financial Report
Master Germanicus;

I am pleased to offer my congratulations for your success in the "Roman
Days" sales venture. You have, as you have reported, increased the Nova
Roma Treasury by a significant sum, and have supplied the potential for
further financial gain from your sales skills.

I am pleased to be able to offer my thanks for your efforts, and my
congratulations for your success.

Respectfully

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens -- Senator -- ProConsul -- Curator
Differum -- Nova Roma

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24720 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: A US-Wide NR Rally
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

When I sought the office of aedilis curulis, one of the issues I raised
was to sponor at least one European-wide and one US-wide Nova Roman
event under directly the auspices of Nova Roma. While the European
rallies have now developed into a self-sustaining reality, in the US we
are limited to providing a Nova Roman presence at events sponsored by
Roman reenactment organisations, most of which occur on the eastern
seaboard. After much research I have come to the conclusion that a
US-wide rally orgganised by NR is possible, but it will take
approximately two years to plan and organise (and for citizens to raise
the transportation costs for such an event). It must be more centrally
located. Missouri is ideal from a geographical perspective, but NR
population distribution makes Ohio or Kentucky the demographic mid-point
for our citizen population. This is further abetted by a core of
activecitizens in the Cincinnati area. It is, however, impractical to
assume that the arrangements can be made and the event held without a
roughlyeighteen-month lead time, which requires either that my successor
be committed to carrying it through or than the Senate appoint a
commission to plan and organise such a rally under the general authority
of the aediles curules. I shall shortly be asking the consuls to put
forward establishment of such a commission for a rally in 2005/2006. I
agree with Drusus' suggestion of regionally rotating international
rallies, but in the interim at least one, regular, annual NR-sponsored
rally is both feasible and highly desirable. I urge citizens
interested in helping to plan and execute such a rally contact me a
gfr@....

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24721 From: Marcus Bianchius Antonius Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
I like the idea of a commission to get a US Rally going.
Also, we (Lacus Magni) have had a few gatherings in tha last few years (in Columbus) and would be more than willing to help with such a venture if so needed.

MBA

Gregory Rose <gfr@...> wrote:
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

When I sought the office of aedilis curulis, one of the issues I raised
was to sponor at least one European-wide and one US-wide Nova Roman
event under directly the auspices of Nova Roma. While the European
rallies have now developed into a self-sustaining reality, in the US we
are limited to providing a Nova Roman presence at events sponsored by
Roman reenactment organisations, most of which occur on the eastern
seaboard. After much research I have come to the conclusion that a
US-wide rally orgganised by NR is possible, but it will take
approximately two years to plan and organise (and for citizens to raise
the transportation costs for such an event). It must be more centrally
located. Missouri is ideal from a geographical perspective, but NR
population distribution makes Ohio or Kentucky the demographic mid-point
for our citizen population. This is further abetted by a core of
activecitizens in the Cincinnati area. It is, however, impractical to
assume that the arrangements can be made and the event held without a
roughlyeighteen-month lead time, which requires either that my successor
be committed to carrying it through or than the Senate appoint a
commission to plan and organise such a rally under the general authority
of the aediles curules. I shall shortly be asking the consuls to put
forward establishment of such a commission for a rally in 2005/2006. I
agree with Drusus' suggestion of regionally rotating international
rallies, but in the interim at least one, regular, annual NR-sponsored
rally is both feasible and highly desirable. I urge citizens
interested in helping to plan and execute such a rally contact me a
gfr@....

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex.



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24722 From: Agrippina Modia Aurelia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Salvete,

I am the legate for Regionis Orientalis (OH,WV,KY) in Lacus Magni and
I live in Cincinnati. I've organized a few gatherings over the years
(including a small one for NR) and would be more than willing to
assist!

I've also compiled a list of contacts at most of the universities in
Ohio - not only classics departments but other related departments
too - as well as Kentucky and a few states in Lacus Magni for
promotional (among other) purposes. I'm sure it could come in handy
for this as well. I can also begin to research facility locations -
although Gaius Modius Athanasius may have a good site already. He
hosts a yearly gathering at a great site not far from Cinci.

Perhaps we should start a group (or rename a 'dead' one) for this
discussion?

Valete,

Agrippina Modia Aurelia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Bianchius Antonius
<imperialreign@y...> wrote:
> I like the idea of a commission to get a US Rally going.
> Also, we (Lacus Magni) have had a few gatherings in tha last few
years (in Columbus) and would be more than willing to help with such
a venture if so needed.
>
> MBA
>
> Gregory Rose <gfr@w...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.
>
> Salvete, Quirites.
>
> When I sought the office of aedilis curulis, one of the issues I
raised
> was to sponor at least one European-wide and one US-wide Nova Roman
> event under directly the auspices of Nova Roma. While the European
> rallies have now developed into a self-sustaining reality, in the
US we
> are limited to providing a Nova Roman presence at events sponsored
by
> Roman reenactment organisations, most of which occur on the eastern
> seaboard. After much research I have come to the conclusion that a
> US-wide rally orgganised by NR is possible, but it will take
> approximately two years to plan and organise (and for citizens to
raise
> the transportation costs for such an event). It must be more
centrally
> located. Missouri is ideal from a geographical perspective, but NR
> population distribution makes Ohio or Kentucky the demographic mid-
point
> for our citizen population. This is further abetted by a core of
> activecitizens in the Cincinnati area. It is, however, impractical
to
> assume that the arrangements can be made and the event held without
a
> roughlyeighteen-month lead time, which requires either that my
successor
> be committed to carrying it through or than the Senate appoint a
> commission to plan and organise such a rally under the general
authority
> of the aediles curules. I shall shortly be asking the consuls to
put
> forward establishment of such a commission for a rally in
2005/2006. I
> agree with Drusus' suggestion of regionally rotating international
> rallies, but in the interim at least one, regular, annual NR-
sponsored
> rally is both feasible and highly desirable. I urge citizens
> interested in helping to plan and execute such a rally contact me a
> gfr@w...
>
> Valete.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24723 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: National Gathering
Salvete Quirites, et salve Flavi Vedi,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> Here’s an idea; perhaps (once we get a full-time Curator Araneum,
> that is), we could change the album civium somewhat. Include a
> section that says “Warning—any information you enter below will be
> visible to others” or somesuch. It would be completely voluntary,
> where citizens can put up more information about themselves; city,
> interests, etc.

It's an excellent idea, and one I'll recommend to a Webmaster just as
soon as we have one.

> Ah, yes, Roman Days. This past weekend was as fine a time as
> I’ve had in NR. There really is no substitute for pressing the
> flesh and meeting your fellow cives face-to-face.

Yes, it was a lovely time. I'm pleased that you were able to join us.

Valete Quirites,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24724 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Salvete omnes:
Hadrianus, Calvus I'm leaving for Boston Thursday! Hadriane; are
you free the 17th? Calvus will we meet up July 5th?
looking forward to it!
valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24725 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix M. Arminae Maior Fabiane S.P.D.

Salve.

Unfortunately, I'm going to be working Wednsday & Thursday nights (16th
& 17th), though I will be free all of Friday and Saturday in the
afternoon & evening. I'm actually going to be in Boston on Saturday
anyways, as I'm taking the exam for the Boston University Police
Department in the AM.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix

M. Arminia Maior Fabiana wrote:

> Salvete omnes:
> Hadrianus, Calvus I'm leaving for Boston Thursday! Hadriane; are
>you free the 17th? Calvus will we meet up July 5th?
> looking forward to it!
> valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24726 From: vipasaniamagna Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Province
Salvete Omnes,

This is a very basic question-but how do I find out which Province I
belong to? vale, Vipsania
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24727 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Province
Salvete Quirites,

I've replied to this request privately.

-- Marinus

vipasaniamagna wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> This is a very basic question-but how do I find out which Province I
> belong to? vale, Vipsania
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24728 From: M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
Salvete Hadriane;
unfortunately, I'll be going to the Berkshires that weekend, another
time, Bona Fortuna on the exam! got to love the idea of Nova Roma
cops:)
"fac ut exsultem, furcifer" Make my day, punk
vale
Arminia Maior, who is dying to say that

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
<c.minucius.hadrianus@n...> wrote:
> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix M. Arminae Maior Fabiane S.P.D.
>
> Salve.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm going to be working Wednsday & Thursday nights
(16th
> & 17th), though I will be free all of Friday and Saturday in the
> afternoon & evening. I'm actually going to be in Boston on Saturday
> anyways, as I'm taking the exam for the Boston University Police
> Department in the AM.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
>
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana wrote:
>
> > Salvete omnes:
> > Hadrianus, Calvus I'm leaving for Boston Thursday! Hadriane;
are
> >you free the 17th? Calvus will we meet up July 5th?
> > looking forward to it!
> > valete
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24729 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Minucia Tiberia"
<scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Novae Romae:
>
> I have forwarded this note from the list to my private box, and
back to you,
> hence the >>'s :) Regarding the qualifications for Censor, may I
refer you
> to the prevailing Lex on the matter:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-02-26-i.html
>
> To wit, the Lex Vedia Curso Honourum
>
> "No individual may assume the office of Censor,Consul or Praetor,
who has
> not previously completed atleast 6 months of a term as one of the
ordinarii
> (not including the Apparitores)"
>
> The lex is essentially silent on the matter of the
Vingintesexviri, who are
> identified under a separate category from the Ordinarii and the
> Extraordinarii...but they are not elected, and as I read the lex,
this is
> this issue..now I am going by the language as it is written.

Salve,

The Constitution of Nova Roma lists the Vingintesexviri under the
classification of "Ordinarii" under section IV.A.8 and some of them
are elected. The Curator Differum, the Curator Araneum, and the
Rogators are all classified as Vingintesexviri and are elected
postitons. The Tribunes are also listed as Ordinarii under the Nova
Roman Constitution, section IV.A.7.

Historically though the Censorship was the capstone of a political
career and one who had not been Consul would never have even
considered running for Censor as he'd have been chased out of the
Forum for such hubris.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24730 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: Visiting Nova Britannia
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Arminia Maior Fabiana"
<rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes:
> Hadrianus, Calvus I'm leaving for Boston Thursday! Hadriane;
are
> you free the 17th? Calvus will we meet up July 5th?
> looking forward to it!
> valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

Salve,

July 5th it is.

Vale,

Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24731 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
Fl Vedius Germanicus Q Cassio Calvo et Novaromanii S.P.D.



Salvete



-----Original Message-----
> *From:* quintuscassiuscalvus [mailto:richmal@...]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:14 PM
> *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus

>

> Historically though the Censorship was the capstone of a political
> career and one who had not been Consul would never have even
> considered running for Censor as he'd have been chased out of the
> Forum for such hubris.



This is very true, and perhaps this might be a good time to go into a little more background of how things came to be the way they are in Nova Roma, for the benefit of those who weren�t here when the deeds were done.



Way back in the misty depths of time (1998), we didn�t have any sort of Cursus Honorum. Every office was open to anyone, and this was so for a very good reason; if we had implemented the historical Cursus Honorum from the outset, we would never have been able to fill anything but the lowest-tier magistracies, for simple lack of qualified members!



As our numbers grew, and in particular the number of experienced former and present magistrates grew, it was decided that it might be time to implement a limited form of the Cursus Honorum; hence the passage of the Lex Vedia de Curso Honorum. The Lex Vedia established minimum requirements of prior officeholding for Censor, Consul, and Praetor. It was never intended to be the end of the process to implement the full requirements of the Cursus Honorum as it was practiced in Roma Antiqua. Rather, it was a nudge in the right direction that was felt to be appropriate, given the circumstances of the time.



I fully expect that, in the fullness of time, and as the ranks of our former magistrates grow to a level sufficient to permit such a thing on a practical basis, we might get one or more nudges in the direction of the ancient Cursus Honorum until it exists in Nova Roma with the force of law as it did in Roma Antiqua. Since the specific issue has come up, perhaps we could even take such a small step this year, requiring Censores to be former Consuls. Just a thought�



Bottom line; the Cursus Honorum as it currently exists in NR law was never intended to be a permanent state of affairs, but rather an intermediate stage necessitated by practical concerns.



I might also point out that the modern practice of keeping a continuous string of Censores in office for two years is extremely ahistorical, and was done simply because we couldn�t think of any better way to handle a continuous influx of new Cives. The result is that, rather than being an honor and �the capstone of a political career� (as Q Cassius Calvus correctly states above), the office of Censor is in reality one of the most arduous, annoying, and close-to-full-time jobs that exists within the Republic. I think I�ve finally figured something out to change the nature of the Censorship to be more in line with history while at the same time allowing for our continuous influx of cives. If there�s some interest in such a thing, I�d be happy to write it up in some more detail; it�d be a pretty big change in the way the Censorship is handled in NR, but for the better, I think.



Valete,



Flavius Vedius Germanicus,

Pater Patriae



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24732 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Salvete Quintus Calvus et Omnes:

(snippage for brevity)

If the office of Censor of Nova Roma is a political capstone, and the
very thought of a Censor being such without first being a Consul is a
notion of hubris, then why was C. Flavius Diocletionus elected Censor
in 2001-2002? He was a Praetor....never Consul.

Former Censor Suffectus C. Marius Merullus was neither Consul nor
Praetor, yet served the remainder of Flavius Germanicus' term in 2000.

Priscilla Vedia Serena et Marcus Marcius Rex (then Senator) both ran
for Censor, and were qualified to do such even under our current
prevailing legislation.

Consequently, one may accurately argue that its against the 'mos' in
antiquita for one to run for Censor without being Consul, but it is
certainly not totally unheard of in Nova Roma.

A simple check of former Censors and their political histories in Nova
Roma reveals much, and saves one declaring that the awkwardness of
declaring that another poster is disproportionately erroneous in
giving information and leges pertinent to same.

I just feel strongly that people should know the facts regarding their
potential qualifications, should they wish to run for
Censor...Historically, they were usually always Consulars...in NR,
no...and there is no mandatory cursus beyond the Lex Vedia de Curso
Honorum...there isn't even much of a 'mos' established yet, as we are
too young a micronation, IMO.

Valete
Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24733 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Salve Po,

<<there isn't even much of a 'mos' established yet, as we are
too young a micronation, IMO>>

Actually I was amazed that given the length of time Nova Roma has
existed that so little progress has been made towards firmly
establishing the mos. Any step we can take should be taken.

As to the Censors, as was pointed out in the debate on the position
of Praetor, in Antiquity unsuitable applications could have been
rejected under the mos. I don't think that it says anywhere in the
Constitution or any lex that an application/nomination has to be
accepted (I couldn't see anything - I maybe wrong). Consequently in
the face of such silence one could strongly argue for the mos to
apply.

That begs the question what is a suitable candidate. I would presume
that we all want to see someone who has the ability and Auctoritas
to make difficult decisions, sometimes involving citizens of long
standing. I think that requires someone who won't be too cautious,
hesitant or even timid to step into the middle of often some charged
situations and show leadership. It requires experience and I would
suggest at a higher level than Provincial. After all if NR only
really consists of 200 plus citizens, the Propraetors may not of had
much experience at dealing with the issues a Censor has to.

Finally I am not sure that loving or caring is a necessary
qualification. In fact as a former police officer (and a Censor
sometimes has to essentially play that role) being loving and caring
could blind one to necessary decisions, reduce an officer to a state
of inaction and create more havoc than had they simply assessed the
situation in an efficient and detached manner and made a decision.

Vale

Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24734 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Quintus Calvus et Omnes:
>
> (snippage for brevity)
>
> If the office of Censor of Nova Roma is a political capstone, and
the
> very thought of a Censor being such without first being a Consul
is a
> notion of hubris, then why was C. Flavius Diocletionus elected
Censor
> in 2001-2002? He was a Praetor....never Consul.
>
> Former Censor Suffectus C. Marius Merullus was neither Consul nor
> Praetor, yet served the remainder of Flavius Germanicus' term in
2000.
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena et Marcus Marcius Rex (then Senator) both
ran
> for Censor, and were qualified to do such even under our current
> prevailing legislation.


Salve,

Unfortunately you snipped the most important part where I was
writing of the historical traditional qualifications, not modern
Nova Roman practice. By snipping what you did you inadvertantly
make it appear that I was maligning C. Flavius Diocletianus and
others by accusing them of hubris. However since C. Flavius
Diocletianus and I while not close friends are on good terms, I
don't believe that he or any of the others would reach that
conclusion, but others might due to the snippage. I don't believe
that was your intent as I can't recall any bad political blood
between us in the past and I don't forsee any in the future.

When Nova Roma was founded there hadn't been a Consular in nearly
2000 years (not even our most august Senator is that old!). So it's
obvious that given the situation concessions to reality have been
made in the past and until such time there is a large enough body of
Consulars such concessions to reality will be made in the future.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24735 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-15
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
<germanicus@g...> wrote:
> I might also point out that the modern practice of keeping a
continuous string of Censores in office for two years is extremely
ahistorical, and was done simply because we couldn't think of any
better way to handle a continuous influx of new Cives. The result is
that, rather than being an honor and "the capstone of a political
career" (as Q Cassius Calvus correctly states above), the office of
Censor is in reality one of the most arduous, annoying, and close-to-
full-time jobs that exists within the Republic.

Salve,

You've nailed that right on the head. I work as a scribe in the
Censor's office and you do speak the truth on it being a labor
intensive job.

You're also correct about the Censor's office elections being
completely ahistorical. Historically, if I remember correctly, the
Censorship was a 5 year term and if one of the two died or left
office for any reason there wasn't an election to replace him. The
surviving Censor was to step down and the offices of Censor remained
vacant for the remainder of the five years.

Given the need of Nova Roma to have at least one functioning Censor
at all times and the work load involved, I don't think that re-
establishing a 5 year term (burn out) and should a vacancy occur the
Censor's office be shut down for the remainder of the 5 years would
be a good idea. While non-historical the present situation works
for the most part and as the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it."

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24736 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Religio Romana Survey
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete.

I am conducting a quick survey to determine the number of active
practicioners of the Religio Romana and follwers of the Roman Gods we
have in Nova Roma.
If you are a follower of the Religio, established foreign cult or a
polythiest/pagan who includes the Roman Gods in your belief system I
would apperciate it if you could take a few moments of your time and
complete the survey. Please e-mail completed surveys to
c.minucius.hadrianus@.... The results (minus names) will
be posted on both the religio and mainlist once the survey is complete.
They survey will be open for 7 days, and will conclude at 12:00 am EST
on June 23rd. Thank you!

Survey:

I. Are you a Citizen of Nova Roma (if so please include your Roman name
& provincia)?

II. If you are a Citizen, are you Assidui or Capite Censi? (taxpayer or
non-taxpaer)?

III. How much of your interest and invlovement in Nova Roma is based on
your religious beleifs? Answer on a scale of 1 to 5

1. Not at all
2. Somewhat, though not my primary interest
3. It's one of many reasons
4. It's a major factor
5. It's the only reason I'm here

IV. Would you define yourself as:

a. Practicioner of the Religio Romana.
b. A follower of an established "foreign" cult (i.e. Isis & Serapis,
Mithras, Sol Invictus, Magna Mater, Apollo, the Eleusian Mysteries, etc.
- please specify).
c. Pacticioner of another reconstructionist pagan/ethnic religion (i.e..
Hellenismos, Asatru, Kemeticism, etc) who also honors the Roman Gods.
d. A non-reconstructionist pagan/neo-pagan who incorporates the Roman
Gods into your worship (i.e. wiccan, eccecltic, solitary, etc.).
e. Other (Please specify).

V. Do you have a lararium in your home?

VI. Do you pray and make offerings to the Gods on a regular basis?

VII. Is there a specific diety or dieties you feel an affinty for?

VIII. Would you ever have any interest in becoming an official
Priest/ess of the State Religio?

IX. If there was a local NR Religio Romana collegium (group) in your
area, would you become invloved (i.e. rituals, festivals, discussion
groups, classes, etc.)?

X. Is there anythign specific you would like to see Nova Roma do in
regards to the Religio Romana (i.e. better website, more public rituals,
online classes, local groups, etc.)?

XI. If you have any additional comments, please feel free to add them!

Valete bene,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24737 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Religio Romana Survey
Ave!

Oh I haven't done a nationwide survey since I was Consul for my first time, oh the memories!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Religio Romana Survey


C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete.

I am conducting a quick survey to determine the number of active
practicioners of the Religio Romana and follwers of the Roman Gods we
have in Nova Roma.
If you are a follower of the Religio, established foreign cult or a
polythiest/pagan who includes the Roman Gods in your belief system I
would apperciate it if you could take a few moments of your time and
complete the survey. Please e-mail completed surveys to
c.minucius.hadrianus@.... The results (minus names) will
be posted on both the religio and mainlist once the survey is complete.
They survey will be open for 7 days, and will conclude at 12:00 am EST
on June 23rd. Thank you!

Survey:

I. Are you a Citizen of Nova Roma (if so please include your Roman name
& provincia)?

Yes, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Calfornia.

II. If you are a Citizen, are you Assidui or Capite Censi? (taxpayer or
non-taxpaer)?

Assidui

III. How much of your interest and invlovement in Nova Roma is based on
your religious beleifs? Answer on a scale of 1 to 5

1. Not at all
2. Somewhat, though not my primary interest
3. It's one of many reasons
4. It's a major factor
5. It's the only reason I'm here

Between 1 and 2

IV. Would you define yourself as:

a. Practicioner of the Religio Romana.
b. A follower of an established "foreign" cult (i.e. Isis & Serapis,
Mithras, Sol Invictus, Magna Mater, Apollo, the Eleusian Mysteries, etc.
- please specify).
c. Pacticioner of another reconstructionist pagan/ethnic religion (i.e..
Hellenismos, Asatru, Kemeticism, etc) who also honors the Roman Gods.
d. A non-reconstructionist pagan/neo-pagan who incorporates the Roman
Gods into your worship (i.e. wiccan, eccecltic, solitary, etc.).
e. Other (Please specify).

E. Jewish.

V. Do you have a lararium in your home?

No.

VI. Do you pray and make offerings to the Gods on a regular basis?

No, but it has been done before.

VII. Is there a specific diety or dieties you feel an affinty for?

Nope. Unless you want to count the G-d of Judiasm.

VIII. Would you ever have any interest in becoming an official
Priest/ess of the State Religio?

Nope. I am Jewish and take my religion seriously and will not diminish the role of the Religo for the sake of another title.

IX. If there was a local NR Religio Romana collegium (group) in your
area, would you become invloved (i.e. rituals, festivals, discussion
groups, classes, etc.)?

Sure. I have a love of learning that includes learning more about the Religio.

X. Is there anythign specific you would like to see Nova Roma do in
regards to the Religio Romana (i.e. better website, more public rituals,
online classes, local groups, etc.)?

Pontiffs teaching classes geared to their specialty? More interaction of Pontiffs on lists. More focus on lists geared to religion.

XI. If you have any additional comments, please feel free to add them!

I hope my comments were helpful as a non-practitioner.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Valete bene,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minerva Templi Sacerdotes






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24738 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: ante diem XVI Kalendae Quinctilis
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem XVI Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

Tomorrow is ante diem XV Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24739 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Ave omnes

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> As to the Censors, as was pointed out in the debate on the position
> of Praetor, in Antiquity unsuitable applications could have been
> rejected under the mos. I don't think that it says anywhere in the
> Constitution or any lex that an application/nomination has to be
> accepted (I couldn't see anything - I maybe wrong). Consequently in
> the face of such silence one could strongly argue for the mos to
> apply.

Now, if there is one field that shouldn't be left to an uncertain
mass of traditions that span over a period of one thousand years,
where contradictions are not uncommon (and how they couldn't be?
Traditions evolves with the men who carry them, and we are talking of
1000 years in which they evolved), about what scholars themselves
often disagrees and that in Nova Roma would be left to an aprioristic
and often misguided principle of authority, that is the requirements
to hold offices or if one specific person is entitled to run to a
given office or not.

Have a more defined law about the cursus honorum, if you feel the one
we have is inadequate, but to leave the matter to the mos maiorum
would mean months of discussions to see who's the higher authority
entitled to speak in NR about what the mos maiorum is in the specific
case.

BTW, if we'd have to follow the mos maiorum about the requirements
for being a candidate for a magistrate position, we should also face
the problem of women holding offices, as it is undoubtly against the
mos maiorum.

vale

DCF
PF Constantinia
Aedilis Urbis
Curator of the Codex Juris Novae Romae Constantini
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24740 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Salve Fuscus

Oh here we go again....I know that you prefer a constitution over
the elegance of the mos maiorum. You have told us all that
before..... over and over again.

The mos has relevance here because Consul Marinus has relied on it
before in his decision making process. He may have to again in the
event that thoroughly unqualified people apply. As consul he would
have to decide on whether someone was unqualified.

The challenge of rebuilding a mos maiorum here is infinitely more
intriguing than scribbling yet another irrelevant law into
existence. It is also quite possible to achieve this goal - assuming
the will is there.

I can always rely on you to appear like a jack-in-the-box as soon as
the mos is mentioned and adopt a stance of implacable opposition.
You have this fear that somehow the mos will be used to what? Squash
Fuscus? Sideline modernism and curtail its pernicious influence?

The mos would act as a guide around which we could test the validity
of proposed actions. Instead of throwing bricks into the greenhouse,
why don't you lend that huge intellect of yours to the challenge of
rebuilding the mos?

Is the reason that you dislike the mos as a concept based on just
that - a fear that were it to be developed it would act as a bulwark
against attempts to turn Nova Roma into a community whose only
relation to Rome and its principles would be in its name?

No smoke without fire Fuscus...you bang the drum of opposition to
such a core principle of Rome, that you must fear it for a reason. I
am sure that you will cite supposed nefarious purposes the mos could
be turned to. Paranonia - sheer unmitigated paranoia.

We could achieve so much as a community but you and others are bent
on preventing that by ubstructionsist nonsense and fear mongering.
You are rapidly becoming the Elmer Fudd of Nova Roma, obsessing over
that "pesky wabbit".

Vale

Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24741 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
---
Salve Caesar et Omnes:

Regarding the loving and caring, well, maybe that is too mooshey a
language, but Censors are also guardians of public morality, and must
make decisions in this regard as well.

We do not need a Censor who is going to slap notas on citizens
'because they can'...so in this respect, in my selection of Censor I
call for some gravity in virtue (which includes caring and loving I
guess in a general sense for regard for his fellow man) .

Vale
Po (who cannot understand when I merely quote a law in Nova Roma the
blood pressures of a few skyrocket)

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Po,
>
> <<there isn't even much of a 'mos' established yet, as we are
> too young a micronation, IMO>>
>
> Actually I was amazed that given the length of time Nova Roma has
> existed that so little progress has been made towards firmly
> establishing the mos. Any step we can take should be taken.
>
> As to the Censors, as was pointed out in the debate on the position
> of Praetor, in Antiquity unsuitable applications could have been
> rejected under the mos. I don't think that it says anywhere in the
> Constitution or any lex that an application/nomination has to be
> accepted (I couldn't see anything - I maybe wrong). Consequently in
> the face of such silence one could strongly argue for the mos to
> apply.
>
> That begs the question what is a suitable candidate. I would presume
> that we all want to see someone who has the ability and Auctoritas
> to make difficult decisions, sometimes involving citizens of long
> standing. I think that requires someone who won't be too cautious,
> hesitant or even timid to step into the middle of often some charged
> situations and show leadership. It requires experience and I would
> suggest at a higher level than Provincial. After all if NR only
> really consists of 200 plus citizens, the Propraetors may not of had
> much experience at dealing with the issues a Censor has to.
>
> Finally I am not sure that loving or caring is a necessary
> qualification. In fact as a former police officer (and a Censor
> sometimes has to essentially play that role) being loving and caring
> could blind one to necessary decisions, reduce an officer to a state
> of inaction and create more havoc than had they simply assessed the
> situation in an efficient and detached manner and made a decision.
>
> Vale
>
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24742 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
---Salve Quintus Calvus:

The snippage was as I said for Brevity. I gave your full credit for
your correctness with respect to your historical information, and I
felt to repeat the whole discourse was, although interesting, a waste
of bandwidth.

The practises of Antiquita was hardly the subject upon which you were
contesting my statements. You seemed not to realize that the election
of Censors here in NR is different from antiquita, and to say such is
a practical point, not one to contradict your historical facts, or to
speak hubris-rooted foolishness.

And again, I quoted the law because, unlike antiquita, there are lots
of people more qualified to run than generally people might think.
I can't for the life of me understand where and 'what' you think I
might have to gain by snipping your verbage, to make some kind of
National Enquirer slant against your post for 'bad political blood' or
otherwise.

Calve!!?????? All I did was quote the law. Is that ok? Gessh...I am
going to start passing around some Oxygen and Tai Chi manuals.

Valete,
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@c...>
wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
> <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete Quintus Calvus et Omnes:
> >
> > (snippage for brevity)
> >
> > If the office of Censor of Nova Roma is a political capstone, and
> the
> > very thought of a Censor being such without first being a Consul
> is a
> > notion of hubris, then why was C. Flavius Diocletionus elected
> Censor
> > in 2001-2002? He was a Praetor....never Consul.
> >
> > Former Censor Suffectus C. Marius Merullus was neither Consul nor
> > Praetor, yet served the remainder of Flavius Germanicus' term in
> 2000.
> >
> > Priscilla Vedia Serena et Marcus Marcius Rex (then Senator) both
> ran
> > for Censor, and were qualified to do such even under our current
> > prevailing legislation.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Unfortunately you snipped the most important part where I was
> writing of the historical traditional qualifications, not modern
> Nova Roman practice. By snipping what you did you inadvertantly
> make it appear that I was maligning C. Flavius Diocletianus and
> others by accusing them of hubris. However since C. Flavius
> Diocletianus and I while not close friends are on good terms, I
> don't believe that he or any of the others would reach that
> conclusion, but others might due to the snippage. I don't believe
> that was your intent as I can't recall any bad political blood
> between us in the past and I don't forsee any in the future.
>
> When Nova Roma was founded there hadn't been a Consular in nearly
> 2000 years (not even our most august Senator is that old!). So it's
> obvious that given the situation concessions to reality have been
> made in the past and until such time there is a large enough body of
> Consulars such concessions to reality will be made in the future.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24743 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Ave omnes

Dear Iulius, an italian song goes like "words, words words words and only
words, words between us".

And words you spent in great amount, but in your lengthy, and probably
uninteresting for most of the cives, analysis of my character and my motives
you fail (you really do? I doubt it) to see a little point: I do not prefer the
constitution over the "elegance" (interesting choice of word, just as elegant a
can be a nimble dodge) of the mos maiorum, I just prefer, like anyone who is
even minimally versed in legal matters, certainty over fogginess.

Now, it is of plain evidence for anyone facing the matter with a minimum of
good faith (and, as the person of good faith he always demonstrated to be, to
the Consul Marinus himself who you quote in support of your thesis.. why don't
you join the Law list one of these days, you might get to know some
interesting things for a change), that the Mos Maiorum is a wonderful label
under which lays 1000 years of noble, but little known, sometimes
contradictory,
often arrived to us uncompleted or even distorted, traditions.

On the other side we have a, probably unperfected and perfectible, Constitution
and a set of "laws" (that you very gallantly define irrelevant with good peace
of the respect due to the decisions taken so far by the cives of Nova Roma),
that at least have the good point of being there for everyone to see and know
beforehand. It is not a case that as men became more generally cultured and the
social environment a bit more complex than the one involving, basically, a
single city, the balance between traditions and written law saw the latter
triumphing.

You see, I'm more democratic (not to mention, adhering to the rules
we cives have accepted to follow) in supporting the publically available
Constitution and the laws voted by all the cives than you are in
aprioristically bringing forward a set of rules the full extension of which no
one really knows and that no one has agreed upon but that already now,
sometimes we follow (e.g. no female pontifices admitted anymore), sometimes not
(un-virgin Vestals, no slavery, males and females having equal rights, ...)

You want the Mos Maiorum? Great, let's put it down so everyone know what we are
talking about. Or you'd rather want a set of rules unwritten, known only to the
initiates to the art of knowing the customs of the antiques and left to the
interpretation of a few men as it basically is right now? You do not want it,
Iulius, right? As you see, I do not have a stance of "implacable opposition",
we just have to agree on some basic rules. The day people will stop waving as a
banner the "Mos Maiorum" to call it in support of their own positions (and
forget it when its against those) and will actually drop down a list of those
mores, then I will have nothing more to say on the issue of using it (where not
in contrast with the Constitution and the laws taken following its
procedures).

Speaking of which, if you take your time in doing a little search in the yahoo
archives, you will see that I *already* volunteered, a while ago, to be part of
a group in charge of putting the mos Maiorum together (so as you see, I did
actually "lend that huge intellect of mine to the challenge of rebuilding the
mos"... surprise surprise), but the thing was dropped as a hot stone... the
reason why it happened, it's to the cives to judge, but my own personal idea is
that the persons who cry "Mos Maiorum" all the time are the very same who
wouldn't like so much for it to be an objective set of rules for anyone to
know.

Incidentally, thank you for the comparison to Elmer Fudd, for having, not even
so indirectly, made hypothesis about an alledged paranoid state of me and given
me of the "fear mongering"... very dignified and a very civil way to hold a
conversation, but of course, nothing new.

vale

DCF
PF Costantinia
Aedilis Urbis


Scrive Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>:

> Salve Fuscus
>
> Oh here we go again....I know that you prefer a constitution over
> the elegance of the mos maiorum. You have told us all that
> before..... over and over again.
>
> The mos has relevance here because Consul Marinus has relied on it
> before in his decision making process. He may have to again in the
> event that thoroughly unqualified people apply. As consul he would
> have to decide on whether someone was unqualified.
>
> The challenge of rebuilding a mos maiorum here is infinitely more
> intriguing than scribbling yet another irrelevant law into
> existence. It is also quite possible to achieve this goal - assuming
> the will is there.
>
> I can always rely on you to appear like a jack-in-the-box as soon as
> the mos is mentioned and adopt a stance of implacable opposition.
> You have this fear that somehow the mos will be used to what? Squash
> Fuscus? Sideline modernism and curtail its pernicious influence?
>
> The mos would act as a guide around which we could test the validity
> of proposed actions. Instead of throwing bricks into the greenhouse,
> why don't you lend that huge intellect of yours to the challenge of
> rebuilding the mos?
>
> Is the reason that you dislike the mos as a concept based on just
> that - a fear that were it to be developed it would act as a bulwark
> against attempts to turn Nova Roma into a community whose only
> relation to Rome and its principles would be in its name?
>
> No smoke without fire Fuscus...you bang the drum of opposition to
> such a core principle of Rome, that you must fear it for a reason. I
> am sure that you will cite supposed nefarious purposes the mos could
> be turned to. Paranonia - sheer unmitigated paranoia.
>
> We could achieve so much as a community but you and others are bent
> on preventing that by ubstructionsist nonsense and fear mongering.
> You are rapidly becoming the Elmer Fudd of Nova Roma, obsessing over
> that "pesky wabbit".
>
> Vale
>
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24744 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Censor Suffectus
Salvete Omnes,

There is one point about the Censor's office in Nova Roma that should
be considered in the search for a Censor Suffectus.

In Nova Roma the terms of the two Censors overlap rather than running
concurrently. Normally this insures that one of the two Censors has at
least a year's experance in the office at any given time.

Since it was the more experanced of the two Censors who resigned we
have lost this advantage, and I would think that we would be best
served if one of the former Censors who has the experance that we need
in one of the two Censors would step forward to fill the postion of
Censor Suffectus.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24745 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

The site we use for Elysium Gathering (an annual Pagan festival near Yellow Springs Ohio -- not far from Dayton or Columbus) is a fairly good site; its a 4-H camp. There are more than enough cabins (rustic cabins), a large pavillion, and a dinning hall with kitchen facilities. There is a large parade field as well.

The site has been used by a variety of groups, including the SCA who need a lot of open land for fighting. The site could accomodate several hundred people if necessary. It is also about 30 minutes from Dayton International Airport.

I have wanted to host a provincial event at this location for awhile now. The only real problem is the $ for the site. Last year the Lacus Magni annual event had about 5 people in attendance. We would need a lot more than 5 people attending to pay for the site cost. However, running events *CAN* be a source of income. At Elysium last year we made about $1600.

Personally, I am not really interested in re-enactment only events (events that exclude the Religio). I joined Nova Roma for the Religio and will only attend an event were the Religio is a part of the event (as all community actions in Roma Antiqua involved the Immortals). I can see this as a potential problem for some people. Any official event within Nova Roma should, and dare I say must, include some sort of Religio presence. If there are no priests present, the responsibility falls upon the magistrate organizaing the event, to offer the necessary honors to the Immortals.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:42:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whiterose13.geo@... writes:

> I am the legate for Regionis Orientalis (OH,WV,KY) in Lacus Magni and
> I live in Cincinnati. I've organized a few gatherings over the years
> (including a small one for NR) and would be more than willing to
> assist!
>
> I've also compiled a list of contacts at most of the universities in
> Ohio - not only classics departments but other related departments
> too - as well as Kentucky and a few states in Lacus Magni for
> promotional (among other) purposes. I'm sure it could come in handy
> for this as well. I can also begin to research facility locations -
> although Gaius Modius Athanasius may have a good site already. He
> hosts a yearly gathering at a great site not far from Cinci.
>
> Perhaps we should start a group (or rename a 'dead' one)
> for this
> discussion?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24746 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

The site we use for Elysium Gathering (an annual Pagan festival near Yellow Springs Ohio -- not far from Dayton or Columbus) is a fairly good site; its a 4-H camp. There are more than enough cabins (rustic cabins), a large pavillion, and a dinning hall with kitchen facilities. There is a large parade field as well.

The site has been used by a variety of groups, including the SCA who need a lot of open land for fighting. The site could accomodate several hundred people if necessary. It is also about 30 minutes from Dayton International Airport.

I have wanted to host a provincial event at this location for awhile now. The only real problem is the $ for the site. Last year the Lacus Magni annual event had about 5 people in attendance. We would need a lot more than 5 people attending to pay for the site cost. However, running events *CAN* be a source of income. At Elysium last year we made about $1600.

Personally, I am not really interested in re-enactment only events (events that exclude the Religio). I joined Nova Roma for the Religio and will only attend an event were the Religio is a part of the event (as all community actions in Roma Antiqua involved the Immortals). I can see this as a potential problem for some people. Any official event within Nova Roma should, and dare I say must, include some sort of Religio presence. If there are no priests present, the responsibility falls upon the magistrate organizaing the event, to offer the necessary honors to the Immortals.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:42:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whiterose13.geo@... writes:

> I am the legate for Regionis Orientalis (OH,WV,KY) in Lacus Magni and
> I live in Cincinnati. I've organized a few gatherings over the years
> (including a small one for NR) and would be more than willing to
> assist!
>
> I've also compiled a list of contacts at most of the universities in
> Ohio - not only classics departments but other related departments
> too - as well as Kentucky and a few states in Lacus Magni for
> promotional (among other) purposes. I'm sure it could come in handy
> for this as well. I can also begin to research facility locations -
> although Gaius Modius Athanasius may have a good site already. He
> hosts a yearly gathering at a great site not far from Cinci.
>
> Perhaps we should start a group (or rename a 'dead' one)
> for this
> discussion?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24747 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: A US-Wide NR Rally
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

The site we use for Elysium Gathering (an annual Pagan festival near Yellow Springs Ohio -- not far from Dayton or Columbus) is a fairly good site; its a 4-H camp. There are more than enough cabins (rustic cabins), a large pavillion, and a dinning hall with kitchen facilities. There is a large parade field as well.

The site has been used by a variety of groups, including the SCA who need a lot of open land for fighting. The site could accomodate several hundred people if necessary. It is also about 30 minutes from Dayton International Airport.

I have wanted to host a provincial event at this location for awhile now. The only real problem is the $ for the site. Last year the Lacus Magni annual event had about 5 people in attendance. We would need a lot more than 5 people attending to pay for the site cost. However, running events *CAN* be a source of income. At Elysium last year we made about $1600.

Personally, I am not really interested in re-enactment only events. I joined Nova Roma for the Religio and will only attend an event were the Religio is a part of the event (as all community actions in Roma Antiqua involved the Immortals). I can see this as a potential problem for some people. Any official event within Nova Roma should, and dare I say must, include some sort of Religio presence. If there are no priests present, the responsibility falls upon the magistrate organizaing the event, to offer the necessary honors to the Immortals.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:42:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whiterose13.geo@... writes:

> I am the legate for Regionis Orientalis (OH,WV,KY) in Lacus Magni and
> I live in Cincinnati. I've organized a few gatherings over the years
> (including a small one for NR) and would be more than willing to
> assist!
>
> I've also compiled a list of contacts at most of the universities in
> Ohio - not only classics departments but other related departments
> too - as well as Kentucky and a few states in Lacus Magni for
> promotional (among other) purposes. I'm sure it could come in handy
> for this as well. I can also begin to research facility locations -
> although Gaius Modius Athanasius may have a good site already. He
> hosts a yearly gathering at a great site not far from Cinci.
>
> Perhaps we should start a group (or rename a 'dead' one)
> for this
> discussion?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24748 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
---Salvete Honoured Pontifex L. Sicinius Drusus:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...>
wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> There is one point about the Censor's office in Nova Roma that should
> be considered in the search for a Censor Suffectus.
>
> In Nova Roma the terms of the two Censors overlap rather than running
> concurrently. Normally this insures that one of the two Censors has at
> least a year's experance in the office at any given time.

Pompeia: Indeed. This would be ideal, but not legally essential,
according to the Lex Vedia prevalent.
>
> Since it was the more experanced of the two Censors who resigned we
> have lost this advantage, and I would think that we would be best
> served if one of the former Censors who has the experance that we need
> in one of the two Censors would step forward to fill the postion of
> Censor Suffectus.

Pompeia: "Experienced" does not always proove to be 'the ideal',
however. It depends on the performance during this tenure of
experience, which varies from candidate to candidate. Consequently,
in my selection of Censor, I will not just be saying "Oh, he was
Censor before he was experienced", I will be saying "Oh, what kind of
'experience' did NR have during this person's term of office? If it
was a positive one, I shall consider him. If it was not so positive,
I will look to someone who has not be Censor, has proven committed,
capable and levelheaded (reasonably, tall order these days :)), and
likely give him more consideration.

I know you didn't get ansy with the quoting of the Lex Vedia Curus
Honorum, but alot of trouble went into this law, to set a standard of
six months experience as an ordinarii to qualify to curule
positions...if we are just going to say, well 'the mos rules', why do
we have these laws to begin with?

I thought the rationale behind laws such as the Lex Vedia, as I
understand it, is to assist in the steering of Nova Roma into a more
historical mos of behaviours. That was my understanding when it was
promulgated...to 'take baby steps' I believe is what the Consul 2001
said, toward a more historical cursus.

If we need to tighten it some more in the views of others, so be
it...but this is how it reads now. And right now, nonSenators,
nonConsulars are entitled to run.

Valete,
Pompeia
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24749 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Gaius Modius Athanasius L. Sicinio Druso salutem dicit

I agree. I know that Censor Caeso Fabius has been working to learn the office, and has commented that it is not an easy office to hold and has also stated that there is much to learn in administering the duties fo the office.

It makes perfect sense to have a censor suffectus that has *experience* at being a censor, and one who will not need to be training to fulfill the responsibilities of office. If the people want to elect a former quaestor or provincial magistrate to censor then so be it, but that will mean that the current Censor will have yet another responsiblity; train the new censor.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Tribunus Plebis, Flamen Pomonalis, Pontifex, and Augur.

In a message dated 6/16/2004 8:42:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drusus@... writes:

> There is one point about the Censor's office in Nova Roma that should
> be considered in the search for a Censor Suffectus.
>
> In Nova Roma the terms of the two Censors overlap rather than running
> concurrently. Normally this insures that one of the two Censors has at
> least a year's experance in the office at any given time.
>
> Since it was the more experanced of the two Censors who resigned we
> have lost this advantage, and I would think that we would be best
> served if one of the former Censors who has the experance that we need
> in one of the two Censors would step forward to fill the
> postion of
> Censor Suffectus.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24750 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
Fuscus,

The mos was part oral tradiion, part written. By all means lets all
work on both. That is, even for you, an exceptionally silly thing to
suggest that I want to mos to be secret. That is evidence more of
your paranoia. For the mos to be relevant it has to be known and
understood by everyone, even by you.

As to the laws group...I already am a member - unless its some
select secret club you have formed. I am also a member of
Continuum_NR as you are. You will recall that forum as the one where
again you expended a large amount of energy denegrating the concept
of the mos. The posts on that topic foundered after
your "contribution". Very helpful I am sure.

The mos would require a discussion of core principles. I suppose
principles and your chosen profession of lawyer don't always fit
togther well do they? Maybe that is the core of the problem.

Shockingly I do think that majority of laws are either irrelevant to
a community of 200 or if they do have relevance are badly written
and shot full of holes. But we couldn't have a Nova Roma with
limited laws could we Fuscus...after all what else would you talk
about if that happened?

Vale
Gn. Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24751 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

salvete, omnes.

I have been reading and absorbing the conversation regarding (once
again) the contrast between the Constitution and the "mos maiorum".
I put "mos" in quotes precisely because it is not a set of specific
rules/regulations by which questions can be validated or rejected.

I must with the greatest possible respect disagree with my colleague
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar in his response to Fuscus. Why? Because
the "mos" is not a artifact to be revered and put on a pedestal; it
is the "will of the people as has been expressed over time". It is a
living, breathing entity, adapting and molding itself to the will of
the citizens for the benefit of the State. The "mos" cannot be "put
to nefarious purposes" (Gn. Iulius Caesar) because the "mos" is hat
the people will it to be. One question that no-one has ever answered
to any degree of satisfaction is: does the "mos maiorum" that people
keep clinging to like a rock in a stormy sea include ALL of the 2800
years of Rome's existence (including us); or does our "mos" end when
the Altar of Victory disappears from the Senate? Do we, in fact,
ignore 1700 years? If so, does this "mos", defined as "the will of
the people over time", actually reflect the will of the people, i.e.,
us? The "mos" does not have to be "developed"...it already exists,
as the expressed practices and will of the people over time.


SINCE NR HAS ALREADY "ADAPTED" THE "MOS MAIORUM" IN MANY WAYS (i.e.,
women's rights, slavery, use of English rather than Latin, etc.) TO
THE 28th CENTURY, WHO DECIDES HOW IT IS TO BE ADAPTED IN THE FUTURE,
AND BY WHAT MECHANISM? <--- not shouting, only emphasizing

The answer seems to be the Constitution, another a-historical entity
that was seen as necessary by our founding Fathers. But every time
Fuscus brings up the Constitution as a guide, he is slapped down as
being fussy or nit-picking or ridiculous or whatever-it-is that
people don't like about it. Again, I remind us that we, as citizens,
agreed to abide by the Constitution. We agreed that we would form
that social contract with the State, unlike anything that existed in
ancient Rome, to guide us and serve as our plumb-line. It, rather
than the nebulous "mos", already acts as the "guide around which we
could test the validity of proposed actions" (Gn. Iulius Caesar) It
is an impartial, impersonal, dispassionate set of guidelines.
Contrary to my fellow-citizen's apparent belief, the "mos maiorum" is
neither elegant nor neat; it is a jumbled mess of contradictory
actions, beliefs, and social, ethical and political accretions.

I am discouraged by the view that our laws and Constitution can be
demeaned to the point where a citizen can claim that we are
merely "scribbling yet another irrelevant law into existence" (Gn.
Iulius Caesar). The law which is dismissed so lightly is the
foundation-stone of a just society; and if we deem it not so, we can,
by the powers invested in us in the Constitution, change any
injustice, if it is the will of the people. Thus changed, it is
added to the "mos maiorum".
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24752 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
--- Salvete Tribunis Modius et Omnes:

Indeed, slipping into your perspective for a moment I can see where
this all makes practical sense to you :)


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Gaius Modius Athanasius L. Sicinio Druso salutem dicit
>
> I agree. I know that Censor Caeso Fabius has been working to learn
the office, and has commented that it is not an easy office to hold
and has also stated that there is much to learn in administering the
duties fo the office.

Pompeia: Any office requires this, indeed.
>
> It makes perfect sense to have a censor suffectus that has
*experience* at being a censor, and one who will not need to be
training to fulfill the responsibilities of office. If the people
want to elect a former quaestor or provincial magistrate to censor
then so be it, but that will mean that the current Censor will have
yet another responsiblity; train the new censor.

Pompeia: Well, judging by what I know of the capabilities of Caeso
Fabius, he is known to be a quick learner, a gem at referencing this
historically, for consideration of any legislation he has proposed,
and has no difficulty conveying instructions to another person. So,
his 'training' an already responsible person with good learning skills
and experience in Nova Roma government is quite doable.

The point is, they 'are' qualified to run, and it is up to the voters
to make responsible decisions.

It would work out well for some, I am sure, because the vast majority
of those who are experienced Censors are either in the Boni or a
strict othodox member of the Collegium Pontificium. This worries me
as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights/needs
of 'all' citizens, not just conservatives or those who practise the
Religio according to the models the CP currently has advocated in
various rulings throughout the year. Yes, the Religio and the Mos are
very important. But over and above these things, citizens of Nova
Roma 'still' have rights in the Constitution which need to be
addressed by Censors irrespective of a citizens' political and
religious beliefs.

So, when the circle of candidates is narrowed down to 'experienced
censors', however unlawfully, by Conservatives/Boni and their
sympathetics, I can see the political fruitfullness to some, but not
all citizens of NR.

I know you would want to present things on the ML from an entirely
objective stance to your constituents, with due respect to the
Constitution and prevailing legislation on the matter, Modius, being a
Tribune, regardless of your personal preferences.

Valete,
Pompeia
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Tribunus Plebis, Flamen Pomonalis, Pontifex, and Augur.
>
> In a message dated 6/16/2004 8:42:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
drusus@b... writes:
>
> > There is one point about the Censor's office in Nova Roma that should
> > be considered in the search for a Censor Suffectus.
> >
> > In Nova Roma the terms of the two Censors overlap rather than running
> > concurrently. Normally this insures that one of the two Censors has at
> > least a year's experance in the office at any given time.
> >
> > Since it was the more experanced of the two Censors who resigned we
> > have lost this advantage, and I would think that we would be best
> > served if one of the former Censors who has the experance that we need
> > in one of the two Censors would step forward to fill the
> > postion of
> > Censor Suffectus.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24753 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Censor Suffectus Position
Avete Citizens of Nova Roma,

Recently the Censor's office has become vacant and today it is my honor to offer my services to the Republic for the remainder of the term in office. I believe that I am one of the best candidates to hold the office and with the vacancy I believe my prior experience will be beneficial. I know that I have a long and varied history in NR, being the first Nova Roman to complete the Cursus Honorum, but this post will just focus on my abilities to complete the remaining term as Censor.

I was created the first Censor handbook, which is still available online at http://home.earthlink.net/~alexious. I was the first censor to complete a full term in office. I was always prompt when in response to emails and have tried to do the best I could to make sure that all inquires were answered in a timely manner. I was able to be online for at least 4+ hours day, and today that has even increased since my last tenure as Censor.

It is my belief that I will be an asset to the Republic as Censor and will do my best to work with the existing Censor.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Senator
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
Lictor
Censor 2000-2001
Consul 2002 & 1999
Praetor 1999
Proconsul of California 2000-2001
Quaestor 1998
Various Scribe, Accenssus, and Sodalitas positions

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24754 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Question
Would the 9th of August be shown as:

Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?

And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?

Thanks
Ita di deaque faxint!
Marcus Traianus Valerius

------------------------------------------------------------
Gens Traiana Home Page
www.geocities.com/genstraiana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24755 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Articles on Roman Government - XIII - Censor
Salvete,

Let´s learn from Ancient.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus TRP



***


Articles on Roman Government - XIII - Censor


This text is provided here with cultural and educational purposes
only. The text is copyright of its owner.


Censor
(timêtês). One of the officials whose duty it was (after B.C. 444) to
take the place of the consuls in superintending the quinquennial
census. The office was one of the higher magistracies, and could only
be held once by the same person. It was at first confined to the
patricians; but in B.C. 351 was thrown open to the plebeians, and
after 339 one of the censors was obliged by law to be a plebeian. On
the occasion of a census, the censors were elected soon after the
accession to office of the new consuls, who presided over the
assembly. They were usually chosen from the number of consulares, or
persons who had been consuls. Accordingly the censorship was
regarded, if not as the highest office of State, at least as the
highest step in the ladder of promotion. The newly elected censors
entered immediately, after due summons, upon their office. Its
duration was fixed in B.C. 433 to eighteen months, but it could be
extended for certain purposes. For the object of carrying out their
proper duties--the census and the solemn purification (lustrum) that
concluded it--they had the power of summoning the people to the
Campus Martius, where, after B.C. 434, they had an official residence
in the Villa Publica. The tribunes had no right of veto as against
their proceedings in taking the census; indeed, so far as this part
of their duties was concerned, they were irresponsible, being bound
only in conscience by the oath which they took on entering upon and
laying down their office. Having no executive powers, they had no
lictors, but only messengers (viatores) and heralds (praecones).
Their insignia were the sella curulis and a purple toga. The
collegiate character of the office was so pronounced that, if one
censor died the other abdicated. From the simple act of taking the
census and putting up the new list of citizens, their functions were
in course of time extended, so as to include a number of very
important duties. Among these must be mentioned in particular a
general superintendence of conduct (regimen morum). In virtue of this
they had the power of setting a stigma upon any citizen, regardless
of his position, for any conceivable offence for which there was no
legal punishment. Such offences were neglect of one's property,
celibacy, dissolution of marriage, bad training or bad treatment of
children, undue severity to slaves and clients, irregular life, abuse
of power in office, impiety, perjury, and the like. The offender
might be punished with degradation--that is, the censors could expel
a man from the Senate or the ordo equester; [p. 315] or they could
transfer him from a country tribe into one of the less respectable
city tribes, and thus curtail his right of voting; or, again, they
could expel him from the tribes altogether, and thus completely
deprive him of the right of voting. This last penalty might be
accompanied by a fine in the shape of additional taxation. The
censors had also the power of issuing edicts against practices which
threatened the simplicity of ancient Roman manners--for instance,
against luxury. These edicts had not the force of law, but their
transgression might be punished by the next censors. The effect of
the censorial stigma and punishment lasted until the next census. The
consent of both censors was required to ratify it, and it directly
affected men only, not women. The censors exercised a special
superintendence over the equites and the Senate. They had the lectio
Senatus, or power of ejecting unworthy members and of passing over
new candidates for the senatorial rank--as, for instance, those who
had held curule offices. The equites had to pass singly, each leading
his horse, before the censors in the Forum, after the completion of
the general census. (See Travectio.) An honourable dismissal was then
given to the superannuated or the infirm; if an eques was now found,
or had previously been found, unworthy of his order (as for
neglecting to care for his horse), he was expelled from it. The
vacant places were filled up from the number of such individuals as
appeared from the general census to be suitable. (See Equites.) There
were certain other duties attached to the censorship, for the due
performance of which they were responsible to the people, and subject
to the authority of the Senate and the veto of the tribunes. (1) The
letting of the public domain lands and taxes to the highest bidder.

(2) The acceptance of tenders from the lowest bidder for works to be
paid for by the State. In both these cases the period was limited to
five years.

(3) Superintendence of the construction and maintenance of public
buildings and grounds, temples, bridges, sewers, aqueducts, streets,
monuments, and the like.

After B.C. 167, Roman citizens were freed from all taxation; and
after the time of Marius, the liability to military service was made
general. The censorship was now a superfluous office, for its
original object, the census, was hardly necessary. Sulla disliked the
censors for their power of meddling in matters of private conduct,
and accordingly, in his constitution of B.C. 81, the office was, if
not formally abolished, practically superseded. It was restored in
B.C. 70, in the consulship of Pompey and Crassus, and continued to
exist for a long time, until under the Empire it disappeared as a
separate office. The emperor kept in his own hands the right of
taking the census. He took over also the other functions of the
censor, especially the supervision of morals, a proceeding in which
he had Caesar's example to support him. The care of public buildings,
however, he committed to a special body.

CENSOR
CENSOR (timêtês), the name of two magistrates of high rank in the
Roman republic. Their office was called Censura (timêteia or
timêtia). The Census, which was a register of Roman citizens and of
their property, was first established by Servius Tullius, the fifth
king of Rome. After the expulsion of the kings it was taken by the
consuls; and special magistrates were not appointed for the purpose
of taking it [p. 398] till the year B.C. 443. Livy (iv. 8, 5) assigns
as the reason of this alteration the appointment in the preceding
year of tribuni militum with consular power in place of the consuls;
as these tribunes might be plebeians, the patricians were unwilling
that the right of taking the census and performing the formal
sacrifice of purification should pass into their hands. This
explanation is very doubtful, considering the comparative
unimportance of the office at this time. It is more probable that it
had been found to be inconvenient that the chief magistrates should
be detained at home by duties necessarily discharged at Rome, when
their presence might be required in the field, and this view is
confirmed by the fact that no lustrum was held for at least sixteen
years before the appointment of censors. The office was at first
restricted to patricians, but was probably thrown open to plebeians
by the Licinian laws of B.C. 367, and in B.C. 351 C. Marcius Rutilus
was the first plebeian censor (Liv. vii. 22). Twelve years
afterwards, B.C. 339, it was provided by one of the Publilian laws,
that one of the censors must necessarily be a plebeian, and that both
might be plebeians (Liv. viii. 12), but it was not till B.C. 280 that
a plebeian censor performed the solemn purification of the people
(lustrum condidit, Liv. Epit. 13). In B.C. 131 the two censors were
for the first time plebeians.

There were always two censors, because the two consuls had previously
taken the census together. If one of the censors died during the time
of his office, another had at first to be chosen in his stead, as in
the case of the consuls. This, however, happened only once, namely,
in B.C. 393; because the capture of Rome by the Gauls in this lustrum
excited religious fears against the practice (Liv. v. 31). From this
time, if one of the censors died, his colleague resigned, and two new
censors were chosen. (Liv. vi. 27, ix. 34, xxiv. 43, xxvii. 6.)

The censors were elected in the comitia centuriata held under the
presidency of a consul. (Gell. xiii. 15; Liv. xl. 45.) It was
necessary that both censors should be elected on the same day; and
accordingly, if the voting for the second was not finished, the
election of the first went for nothing, and new comitia had to be
held. (Liv. ix. 34.) The comitia for the election of the censors were
held under different auspices from those at the election of the
consuls and praetors; and the censors were accordingly not regarded
as their colleagues, although they likewise possessed the maxima
auspicia (Gell. xiii. 15). The comitia were held by the consuls of
the year very soon after they had entered upon their office (Liv.
xxiv. 10, xxxix. 41); and the censors, as soon as they were elected
and the censorial power had been granted to them by a lex centuriata,
were fully installed in their office. (Cic. de Leg. Agr. ii. 1. 1,
26; Liv. xl. 45.) As a general rule the only persons chosen for the
office were those who had previously been consuls; but a few
exceptions occur. At first there was no law to prevent a person being
censor a second time; but the only person who was twice elected to
the office was C. Marcius Rutilus in B.C. 265, who received in
consequence the surname of Censorinus (Plut. Coriol. 1; Val. Max. iv.
1, § 3). A law was shortly after-wards passed enacting that no one
should be chosen censor a second time (Mommsen, Röm. Staatsr. i.2
502, note 2).

The censorship is distinguished from all other Roman magistracies by
the fact that it was not conferred for a definite period. The censors
were appointed to discharge a special duty, i.e. ut conderent
lustrum; and although in theory this duty was performed once in every
four years (quinto quoque anno), in practice the interval varied
considerably, partly owing to accidental irregularities, and partly
from a later interpretation of the language employed, which made the
interval one of five, not four years (cf. Mommsen, Stcatsr. ii. 331).
The period during which the lustra were held with the greatest
regularity is the half-century following the outbreak of the Second
Punic War; before this time there are numerous irregularities, and
after it they occur occasionally. According to Livy (iv. 24; cf. ix.
33), the censors were required by a law of the dictator Mam. Aemilius
to resign office within eighteen months of their appointment; but it
is a probable conjecture of Mommsen's that this limitation was
introduced from the first, and that they were allowed eighteen months
from the time of their election for a duty which the consuls had been
required to complete within a year. The censors also held a very
peculiar position with respect to rank and dignity. No imperium was
bestowed upon them, and accordingly they had no lictors. (Zonar. vii.
19.) The jus censurae was granted to them by a lex centuriata, and
not by the curiae, and in official precedence they ranked below the
consuls and praetors, and even below the magister equitum. (Mommsen,
Röm. Staatsr. i. 543, note 3.) But notwithstanding this, the
censorship was regarded as, in some respects, the highest dignity in
the state, with the exception of the dictatorship; it was a hiera
archê, a sanctus magistratus, to which the deepest reverence was due.
(Plut. Cat. Maj. 16, Flamin. 18, Camill. 2, 14, Aemil. Paul. 38; Cic.
ad Fans. iii. 10, 11.) The high rank and dignity, which the
censorship obtained, was owing to the various important duties
gradually entrusted to it, and especially to its possessing the
regimens morum, or general control over the conduct and morals of the
citizens; in the exercise of which power they were regulated solely
by their own views of duty, and were not responsible to any other
power in the state. (Dionys. Excerpt. xx. 13, Kiessling; Liv. iv. 24,
xxix. 37; Val. Max. vii. 2, § 6.) The censors possessed of course the
sella curulis (Liv. xl. 45), and during their term of office wore the
toga praetexta (Zonar. vii. 19; Athen. xiv. p. 660 c), but were
honoured at burial with the toga purpurea (cf. Polyb. vi. 53, and
Mommsen, Staatsr. i. 425, note 3). The funeral of a censor was always
conducted with great pomp and splendour, and hence a funus censorium
was voted even to the emperors (Tac. Ann. iv. 15; xiii. 2).

The censorship continued in existence for 421 years, namely, from
B.C. 443 to B.C. 22; but during this period many lustra passed by
without any censor being chosen at all. According to one statement,
the office was abolished by Sulla (Schol. Gronov. ad Cic. Div. in
Caecil. 3, p. 384, ed. Orelli), but the authority on which this
statement rests is not of much weight, and [p. 399] the fact itself
is not probable (cf. Cic. in Pis. 5, 10); for although there was no
census during the two lustra which elapsed from Sulla's dictatorship
to the first consulship of Pompeius (B.C. 82-70), there is no
reference to any law restoring it, and censors reappear in B.C. 70.
Its power was limited by one of the laws of the tribune Clodius (B.C.
58), which prescribed certain regular forms of proceeding before the
censors in expelling a person from the senate, and the concurrence of
both censors in inflicting this degradation. (Dio Cass. xxxviii. 13;
Cic. pro Sest. 25, 55, de Prov. Cons. 19, 46.) This law, however, was
repealed in the third consulship of Pompey (B.C. 52), on the
proposition of his colleague Caecilius Metellus Scipio (Dio Cass. xl.
57), but the censorship never recovered its former power and
influence. During the civil wars which followed soon afterwards no
censors were elected; and it was only after a long interval that they
were again appointed, namely in B.C. 22, when Augustus caused L.
Munatius Plancus and Paullus Aemilius Lepidus to fill the office.
(Suet. Aug. 37, Claud. 16; Dio Cass. liv. 2.) This was the last time
that such magistrates were appointed; the emperors in future
discharged the duties of their office under the name of Praefectura
Morum. Some of the emperors sometimes took the name of censor when
they actually held a census of the Roman people, as was the case with
Claudius, who appointed the elder Vitellius as his colleague (Suet.
Claud. 16; Tac. Ann. xii. 4, Hist. i. 9), and with Vespasian, who
likewise had a colleague in his son Titus. (Suet. Vesp. 8, Tit. 6.)
Domitian assumed the title of censor perpetuus (Dio Cass. liii. 18),
but this example was not imitated by succeeding emperors. In the
reign of Decius we find the elder Valerian nominated to the
censorship without a colleague (Trebell. Pollio, Valer. 1, 2); and
towards the end of the fourth century it was proposed to revive the
censorship (Symmach. Ep. iv. 29, v. 9), but this design was never
carried into effect.

The duties of the censors may be divided into three classes, all of
which were however closely connected with one another: I. The Census,
or register of the citizens and of their property, in which were
included the lectio senatus, and the recognitio equitum; II. The
Regimen Morum; and III. The administration of the finances of the
state, including also the superintendence of the public buildings and
the erection of all new public works. The original business of the
censorship was at first of a much more limited kind, and was
restricted almost entirely to taking the census (Liv. iv. 8); but the
possession of this power gradually brought with it fresh power and
new duties, as is shown below. A general view of these duties is
briefly expressed in the following passage of Cicero (de Leg. iii. 3,
7):--Censores populi aevitates, suboles, familias pecuniasque
censento: urbis templa, vias, aquas, aerari [so Mommsen: MSS.
aerarium] vectigalia tuento: populique partes in tribus discribunto:
exin pecunias, aevitates, ordines partiunto: equitum, peditumque
prolem describunto: caelibes esse prohibento: mores populi regunto:
probrum in senatu ne relinquunto.

I. THE CENSUS, the first and principal duty of the censors, for which
the proper expression is censum agere (Liv. iii. 3, 22, iv. 8), was
always held in the Campus Martius; like all public acts concerning
the Roman people, viewed as an exercitus: and from the year B.C. 435
a special building called Villa Publica, which was erected for that
purpose by the second pair of censors, C. Furius Pacilus and M.
Geganius Macerinus (Liv. iv. 22; Varr. R. R. iii. 2), was used as the
censor's office, the actual census, however, being conducted in the
open air. But all other business of the censors, including the
recognitio equitum, was transacted in the forum. An account of the
formalities with which the census was opened is given in a fragment
of the Tabulae Censoriae, preserved by Varro (L. L. vi. 86, 87, ed.
Müller). After the auspicia had been taken, the citizens were
summoned by a public crier (praeco) to appear before the censors.
Each tribe was called up separately (Dionys. v. 75); and the names in
each tribe were probably taken according to the lists previously made
out on the basis of the latest census by the curatores of the tribes.
Every paterfamilias had to appear in person before the censors, who
were seated in their curule chairs; and those names were taken first
which were considered to be of good omen, such as Valerius, Salvius,
Statorius, &c. (Festus, s. v. Lacus Lucrinus; Schol. Bob. ad Cic. pro
Scaur. p. 374, ed. Orelli.) The censors do not appear to have
considered themselves responsible for determining whether a man
claiming to be enrolled was really entitled to the franchise; hence
the occurrence of a name on the censor's roll was evidence merely
that the franchise had been claimed, not that there was any
justification for the claim (Cic. pro Arch. 5, 11). The census was
conducted ad arbitrium censoris; but the censors laid down certain
rules (Liv. iv. 8, xxix. 15), sometimes called leges censui censendo
(Liv. xliii. 14), in which mention was made of the different kinds of
property subject to the census, and the way in which their value was
to be estimated. According to these rules, each citizen had to give
an account of himself, of his family, and of his property upon oath,
ex animi sententia. (Dionys. iv. 15; Liv. xliii. 14.) First he had to
give his full name (praenomen, nomen, and cognomen) and that of his
father, or if he were a freedman that of his patron, and he was
likewise obliged to state his age. He was then asked, Tu, ex animi
tui sententia, uxorem babes? and if married he had to give the name
of his wife, and likewise the number, names, and ages of his
children, if any. (Gell. iv. 20; Cic. de Orat. ii. 64, 260; Tab.
Heracl. 142 (68); Dig. 50, tit. 15, s. 3.) Single women who were sui
iuris (viduae) and orphans (orbi orbaeque) were represented by their
tutores; their names were entered in separate lists, and they were
not included in the sum total of capita. (Comp. Liv. iii. 3, Epit.
59.) After a citizen had stated his name, age, family, &c., he then
had to give an account of all his property, so far as it was subject
to the census. In making this statement he was said dedicare or
deferre in censum, or sometimes censere or censeri, as a deponent, to
value or estimate himself, or as a passive, to be valued or
estimated: the censor, who received the statement, was also said
(censui censendo) as were property ex jure Quiritium. At first each
citizen appears to have merely given the value of his whole property
in general without entering into details (Dionys. iv. 15; Cic. de
Leg. iii. 3, 7 ; Festus, s. v. Censores); but it soon became the
practice to give a minute specification of each article, as well as
the general value of the whole. (Comp. Cic pro Flacc. 32, 79; Gell.
vii. 11; Plut. Cat, Maj. 18.) Land formed the most important article
in the census; but public land, the possessio of which only belonged
to a citizen, was excluded as not being Quiritarian property. If we
may judge from the practice of the imperial period, it was the custom
to give a most minute specification of all such land as a citizen
held ex jure Quiritium. He had to state the name and situation of the
land, and to specify what portion of it was arable, what meadow, what
vineyard, and what olive-ground; and to the land thus minutely
described he had to affix his own valuation. (Dig. 50, tit. 15, s.
4.) Slaves and cattle formed the next most important item, as
constituting along with the land the necessaries of agriculture, and
being res mancipi (=res censui censendo, Cic. pro Flacc. 32, 79). The
censors also possessed the right of calling for a return of such
objects as had not usually been given in, such as clothing, jewels,
and carriages. (Liv. xxxix. 44; Plut. Cat. Maj. 18.) They undoubtedly
possessed the power of setting a higher valuation on the property
than the citizens themselves had put. It is in fact expressly stated
that on one occasion they made an extravagant surcharge on articles
of luxury (Liv. xxxix. 44; Plut. Cat. Maj. 18); and even if they did
not enter in their books the property of a person at a higher value
than he returned it, they accomplished the same end by compelling him
to pay down the tax upon the property at a higher rate than others.
The tax (tributum) was usually one per thousand upon the property
entered in the books of the censors; but on one occasion the censors,
as a punishment, compelled a person to pay eight per thousand
(octuplicato censu, Liv. iv. 24). The censors were aided by certain
assessors (in consilio vocati) and iuratores (Liv. xxxix. 44; Plaut,
Trin. 878, Poen. prol. 56), who administered the oath, i. e. asked
the formal questions.

A person who voluntarily absented himself from the census, and thus
became incensus, was subject to the severest punishment. Servius
Tullius is said to have threatened the incensus with imprisonment and
death (Liv. i. 44); and in the republican period he might be sold by
the state as a slave (Cic. pro Caecin. 34, 99). In the later times of
the republic a person who was absent from the census might be
represented by another, and thus be registered by the censors (Varr.
L. L, vi. 86). Whether the soldiers who were absent on service had to
appoint a representative, may be questioned. In ancient times the
sudden breaking out of a war prevented the census from being taken
(Liv. vi. 31), because a large number of the citizens would
necessarily be absent. It is supposed from a passage in Livy (xxix.
37), that in later times the censors sent commissioners into the
provinces with full powers to take the census of the Roman soldiers
there; but this seems to have been only a special case. It is, on the
contrary, probable from the way in which Cicero pleads the absence of
Archias from Rome with the army under Lucullus, as a sufficient
reason for his not having been enrolled in the census (pro Arch, 5,
11), that service in the army was a valid excuse for absence. Before
the Social War the census of the allies was taken in their own towns:
and this practice seems to have continued after they had been
admitted to the franchise (Cic, pro Cluent. 14, 41).

After the censors had received the names of all the citizens with the
amount of their property, they then had to make out the lists of the
tribes, and also of the classes and centuries; for by the legislation
of Servius Tullius the position of each citizen in the state was
determined by the amount of his property. [COMITIA. CENTURIATA.]
These lists formed a most important part of the Tabulae Censoriae,
under which name were included all the documents connected in any way
with the discharge of the censors' duties. (Cic. de Leg. iii. 3, 7;
Liv. xxiv. 18; Plut. Cat. Maj. 16; Cic. de Leg. Agr. i. 2) These
lists, as far at least as they were connected with the finances of
the state, were deposited in the aerarium, which was the temple of
Saturn (Liv. xxix, 37); but the regular depository for all the
archives of the censors was in earlier times the Atrium Libertatis,
near the Villa publica (Liv. xliii. 16, xlv. 15), and in later times
the temple of the Nymphs (Cic. pro Mil. 27, 73), which has recently
been discovered in camps (Ephem. Epigr. i. 35).

Besides the arrangement of the citizens into tribes, centuries, and
classes, the censors had also to make out the lists of the senators
for the ensuing lustrum, or till new censors were appointed; striking
out the names of such as they considered unworthy, and making
additions to the body from those who were qualified. This important
part of their duties is explained under SENATUS. In the same manner
they held a review of the equites equo publico and added and removed
names as they judged proper. [EQUITES]

After the lists had been completed, the number of citizens was
counted up, and the sum total announced; and accordingly we find
that, in the account of a census, the number of citizens is likewise
usually given. They are in such cases spoken of as capita, sometimes
with the addition of the word civium, and sometimes not; and hence to
be registered in the census was the same thing as caput habere.
[CAPUT]

II. REGIMEN MORUM. This was the most important branch of the censors'
duties, and the one which caused their office to be the most revered
and the most dreaded in the Roman state. It is not mentioned in
connexion with the institution of the censorship (Liv. iv. 8), but it
appears in the account of the second lustrum (ib. iv. 24). Its main
purpose was to determine how far each citizen fulfilled his duty
towards the state; but the limits of the inquiry were defined only by
the discretion of the censors. In this manner the censors gradually
became possessed of a complete superintendence over the whole public
and private life of every citizen. They were constituted the
conservators of [p. 401] public and private virtue and morality; they
were not simply to prevent crime or particular acts of immorality,
but their great object was to maintain the old Roman character and
habits, the mos majorum. The proper expression for this branch of
their power was regimen morum (Cic. de Leg. iii. 3, 7; Liv. iv. 8,
xxiv. 18, xl. 46, xli. 27, xlii. 3; Suet. Aug. 27), which was called
in the times of the empire cura or praefcctura morum. The punishment
inflicted by the censors in the exercise of this branch of their
duties was called Nota or Notatio, or Animadversio Censoria. In
inflicting it they were guided only by their conscientious
convictions of duty; they had to take an oath that they would act
neither through partiality nor favour; and, in addition to this, they
were bound in every case to state in their lists, opposite the name
of the guilty citizen, the cause of the punishment inflicted on him,--
Subscriptio censoria. (Liv. xxxix. 42; Cic. pro Cluent. 6, 42-48;
Gell. iv. 20.) A citizen was usually required to appear before the
censors in his own defence, when threatened with the nota; and
in .some cases a censor required the appearance of a prosecutor,
before he would take any action (Cic. pro Cluent. 48, 133; cf. Val.
Max. iv. 1, 10). In fact, a kind of trial was held, but one not
fettered by the ordinary legal forms of procedure.

This part of the censors' office invested them with a peculiar kind
of jurisdiction, which in many respects resembled the exercise of
public opinion in modern times; for there are innumerable actions
which, though acknowledged by every one to be prejudicial and
immoral, still do not come within the reach of the positive laws of a
country. Even in cases of real crimes, the positive laws frequently
punish only the particular offence, while in public opinion the
offender, even after he has undergone punishment, is still
incapacitated for certain honours and distinctions which are granted
only to persons of unblemished character. Hence the Roman censors
might brand a man with their nota censoria in case he had been
convicted of a crime in an ordinary court of justice, and had already
suffered punishment for it. The consequence of such a nota was only
ignominia and not infamia (Cic. de Rep. iv. 6, 6) [INFAMIA], and the
censorial verdict was not a judicium or res judicata (Cic. pro
Cluent. 42, 117), for its effects were not lasting, but might be
removed by the following censors, or by a lex. A nota censoria was
moreover not valid, unless both censors agreed. The ignominia was
thus only a transitory capitis deminutio, which does not even appear
to have deprived a magistrate of his office (Liv. xxiv. 18), and
certainly did not disqualify persons labouring under it for obtaining
a magistracy, for being appointed as judices by the praetor, or for
serving in the Roman armies. Mam. Aemilius was thus, notwithstanding
the animadversio censoria, made dictator. (Liv. iv. 31.)

A person might be branded with a censorial nota in a variety of
cases, which it would be impossible to specify, as in a great many
instances it depended upon the discretion of the censors and the view
they took of a case; and sometimes even one set of censors would
overlook an offence which was severely chastised by their successors.
(Cic. de Senect. 12, 42.) But the offences which are recorded to have
been punished by the censors are of a threefold nature.

1. Such as occurred in the private life of individuals, e. g. (a) The
dissolution of matrimony or betrothment in an improper way, or for
insufficient reasons. (Val. Max. ii. 9, § 2.) (b) The obligation of
marrying was frequently impressed upon the citizens by the censors,
and the refusal to fulfil it was punished with a fine [AES UXORIUM].
But celibacy in itself can hardly have been visited with a nota; for,
however undesirable, it cannot have been regarded as a probrum. (c)
Improper conduct towards one's wife or children, as well as harshness
or too great indulgence towards children, and disobedience of the
latter towards their parents. (Plut. Cat. Maj. 17 ; compare Cic. de
Rep. iv. 6, 16; Dionys. xx. 3.) (d) Inordinate and luxurious mode of
living, or an extravagant expenditure of money. A great many
instances of this kind are recorded. (Liv. Epit. 14, xxxix. 44; Plut.
Cat. Maj. 18; Gellius, iv. 8, xvii. 21, 39; Vell. ii. 10; Val. Max.
ii. 9, § 4.) At a later times the leges sumptuariae were made to
check the growing love of luxuries. (e) Neglect and carelessness in
cultivating one's fields. (Gell. iv. 12; Plin. H. N. xviii. § 11.)
(f) Cruelty towards slaves or clients. (Dionys. xx. 3.) (g) The
carrying on of a disreputable trade or occupation (Dionys. l. c.),
such as acting in theatres. (Liv. vii. 2.) (h) Legacy-hunting,
defrauding orphans, &c.

2. Offences committed in public life, either in the capacity of a
public officer or against magistrates. (a) If a magistrate acted in a
manner not befitting his dignity as an officer, if he was accessible
to bribes, or forged auspices. (Cic. de Senect. 12, 42; Liv. xxxix.
42; Val. Max. ii. 9, § 3; Plut. Cat. Maj. 17; Cic. de Div. i. 1. 6,
29.) (b) Improper conduct towards a magistrate, or the attempt to
limit his power or to abrogate a law which the censors thought
necessary. (Liv. iv. 24; Cic. de Orat. ii. 64, 260; Val. Max. ii. 9,
§ 5; Gellius, iv. 20.) (c) Perjury. (Cic. de Off. i. 1. 3; Liv. xxiv.
18; Gell. vii. 18.) (d) Neglect, disobedience, and cowardice of
soldiers in the army. (Val. Max. ii. 9, § 7; Liv. xxiv. 18, xxvii.
11.) (e) The keeping of the equus publicus in bad condition. [EQUITES]

3. A variety of actions or pursuits which were thought to be
injurious to public morality might be forbidden by the censors by an
edict (Gellius, xv. 11), and those who acted contrary to such edicts
were branded with the nota and degraded. For an enumeration of the
offences that might be punished by the censors with ignominia, see
Mommsen, Staatsr. ii. 364-368.

The consequence of the censor's nota was the removal of the citizen
thus censured from the tribe to which he belonged, and his
degradation to the aerarii. The former act was the main one, and
therefore in exact language is always mentioned first ( tribu movere
et aerarium facere: Liv. iv. 24, 7; xxiv. 43, 3; xliv. 16, 8; xlv.
15. 8), though sometimes the order is reversed. In the earlier times,
when the tribes represented the freeholders [TRIBUS], this
degradation brought with it the serious disadvantage that the
degraded citizen paid taxes on [p. 402] the whole of his property,
and not merely on his landed estate. But after the changes introduced
by Appius Claudius, by which the aerarii were included in the tribus
urbanae, and the distinction between aerarii and tribules thus ceased
to exist, the phrase tribu movere, or what was now the same thing in
aerarios referre, came to mean the removal from the country to the
less respectable city tribes. In the case of a senator this
degradation involved the loss of his place in the senate, which could
however be recovered by subsequent election to a curule office. (Cic.
pro Cluent. 42, 117.) In the case of an eques, it accompanied the
ademptio equi. Women, as not included among the tributes, did not
come at all under the control of the censors.

III. THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE FINANCES OF THE STATE was another part
of the censors' office. In the first place the tributum, or property-
tax, had to be paid by each citizen according to the amount of his
property registered in the census, and, accordingly, the regulation
of this tax naturally fell under the jurisdiction of the censors.
(Comp. Liv. xxxix. 44.) [TRIBUTUM.] They also had the superintendence
of all the other revenues of the state, the vectigalia, such as the
tithes paid for the public lands, the salt works, the mines, the
customs, &c. [VECTIGALIA] All these branches of the revenue the
censors were accustomed to let out to the highest bidder for the
space of a lustrum or five years. The act of letting was called
venditio or locatio (cf. Fest. p. 376, venditiones dicebantur olim
censorum locationes), and seems to have taken place in the month of
March (Macrob. Sat. i. 12), in a public place in Rome (Cic. de Leg.
Agr. i. 3. 7; ii. 21, 55). The terms on which they were let, together
with the rights and duties of the purchasers, were all specified in
the leges censoriae, which the censors published in every case before
the bidding commenced. (Cic. ad Qu. Fr. i. 1, § 12, Verr. iii. 7, 18,
de Vat. Deor. iii. 19, 49; Varr. de Re Rust. ii. 1.) For further
particulars see PUBLICANI The censors also possessed the right,
though probably not without the concurrence of the senate, of
imposing new vectigalia (Liv. xxix. 37, xl. 51), and even of selling
the land belonging to the state (Liv. xxxii. 7). It would thus appear
that it was the duty of the censors to bring forward a budget for a
lustrum, and to take care that the income of the state was sufficient
for its expenditure during that time. So far their duties resembled
those of a modern minister of finance. The censors, however, did not
receive the revenues of the state. All the public money was paid into
the aerarium, which was entirely under the jurisdiction of the
senate; and all disbursements were made by order of this body, which
employed the quaestors as its officers. [AERARIUM; SENATUS.]

In one important department the censors were entrusted with the
expenditure of the public money; though the actual payments were no
doubt made by the quaestors. The censors had the general
superintendence of all the public buildings and works (opera
publica) ; and to meet the expenses connected with this part of their
duties, the senate voted them a certain sum of money or certain
revenues, to which they were restricted, but which they might at the
same time employ according to their discretion. (Polyb. vi. 13; Liv.
xl. 46, xliv. 16.) They had to see that the temples and all other
public buildings were in a good. state of repair (aedes sacras tueri
and sarta tecta exigere, Liv. xxiv. 18, xxix. 37, xlii. 3 [where
Madvig rightly emends locare tuenda for loca tuenda], xlv. 15), that
no public places were encroached upon by the occupation of private
persons (Liv. xliii. 16), and that the aqueducts,. roads, drains, &c.
were properly attended to. [AQUAEDUCTUS; VIAE; CLOACA.] The repairs
of the public works and the keeping of them in proper condition were
let out by the censors by public auction to the lowest bidder, just
as the vectigalia were let out to the highest bidder. These expenses
were called ultro tributa,--a remarkable phrase, probably intended to
imply the complete discretion which the senate desired to reserve to
itself in conceding or refusing the application of a magistrate for
the usual grants; and hence we frequently find vectigalia and ultro
tributa contrasted with one another. (Liv. xxxix. 44, xliii. 16; cf.
Lex Municip. 1. 73: publiceis vectigalibus, ultrove tributeis. ) The
persons who undertook the contract were called conductores, mancipes,
redemptores, susceptores, &c. ; and the duties they had to discharge
were specified in the Leges Censoriae. The censors had also to
superintend the expenses connected with the worship of the gods, even
for instance the feeding of the sacred geese in the Capitol, the
contract for which was always the first given out. (Plut. Quaest.
Rom. 98 ; Plin. H. N. x. § 51; Cic. pro Rose. Am. 20, 57.) Besides
keeping existing public works--in a proper state of repair, the
censors also constructed new ones, either for ornament or utility,
both in Rome and in other parts of Italy, such as temples, basilicae,
theatres, porticoes, fora, walls of towns, aqueducts, harbours,
bridges, cloacae, roads, &c. These works were either performed by
them jointly, or they divided between them the money which had been
granted to them by the senate. (Liv. xl. 51, xliv. 16.) They were let
out to contractors, like the other works mentioned above ; and when
they were completed, the censors had to see that the work was
performed in accordance with the contract: this was called opus
probare or in acceptum referre. (Cic. Verr. i. 5. 7, 149; Liv. iv.
22, xlv. 15; Lex Puteol. in C. I. L. i. 163.) When there were no
censors in office, their financial duties lapsed to the consuls, who
often appear as giving out contracts for buildings, &c.

The aediles had likewise a superintendence over the public buildings;
and it is not easy to define with accuracy the respective duties of
the censors and aediles: but it may be remarked in general that the
superintendence of the aediles had more of a police character, while
that of the censors had reference to all financial matters.

After the censors had performed their various duties and taken the
census, the lustrum or solemn purification of the people followed.
When the censors entered upon their office, they drew lots to see
which of them should perform this purification (lustrum facere or
condere, Varr. L. L. vi. 86; Liv. xxix. 37, xxxv. 9, xxxviii. 36,
xlii. 10); but both censors were obliged of course to be present at
the ceremony. [LUSTRUM] [p. 403]

In the Roman and Latin colonies and in the municipia there were
censors, who likewise bore the name of quinquennales. They are spoken
of under COLONIA

A census was usually taken in the provinces, even under the republic
(Cic. Verr. ii. 5. 3, 131; 56, 139); but there seems to be no single
instance of a general census under the empire, with the exception of
that mentioned by St. Luke (ii. 2) in the time of Augustus: on which
see Mommsen, Staatsr. ii. 412, and Meyer, ad loc. (Cf. Joseph. Ant.
Jud. xvii. 13, § 5; xviii. 1, § 1; 2, § 1.) As a rule the census of
the various provinces was taken quite independently, often called
censitores, sometimes by persons of equestrian rank, charged with the
census of particular communities or groups of communities, sometimes
by imperial legati pro praetore appointed for whole provinces (Tac.
Ann. ii. 6; vi. 41; xiv. 46), sometimes by officials of still higher
rank for several provinces together. It was quite in accordance with
the principles of imperial government that while the lists, upon
which taxation and levies were based, should be kept with great
accuracy, and regularly transmitted to Rome, no public or general
statement should be made as to the results so obtained (cf. Mommsen,
Staatsr. ii. 410-413). At Rome the census still continued to be taken
under the empire, but the old ceremonies connected with it were no
longer continued, and the ceremony of the lustration was not
performed after the time of Vespasian. The two great jurists, Paulus
and Ulpian, each wrote works on the census in the imperial period;
and several extracts from these works are given in a chapter in the
Digest (50, tit. 15), to which we must refer our readers for further
details respecting the imperial census.

The word census, besides the meaning of valuation of a person's
estate, has other significations, which must be briefly mentioned: 1.
It signified the amount of a person's property, and hence we read of
census senatorius, the estate of a senator; census equestris, the
estate of an eques. 2. The lists of the censors. 3. The tax which
depended upon the valuation in the census. The Lexicons will supply
examples of these meanings.

(Becker, Handbuch der römischen Alterthümer, vol. ii. part ii. pp.
191-247, with additions and corrections by Mommsen, Staatsrecht, vol.
ii. pp. 319-461. Compare Niebuhr, History of Rome, vol. ii. p. 397;
Arnold, History of Rome, vol. i. p. 346, &c.; Göttling, Römische
Staatsverfassung, p. 328, &c.; Gerlach, Die römische Censur in ihrem
Verhaitnisse zur Verfassung, Basel, 1842; Lange, Röm. Alterthümer, i.
667-690; Dureau de la Malle, Économie Politique des Romains, vol. i.
p. 159, &c.) [W. S.] [A. S. W.]






This text is based on the following book(s):
A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. William Smith, LLD.
William Wayte. G. E. Marindin. Albemarle Street, London. John Murray.
1890.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24756 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Salve,

On 117AUC the consules ordinarii were L. Valerius Potitus and P.
Cornelius Maluginensis. Valerius was suceeded by the consul sufectus
L. Lucretius Tricipitinus Flavus.

On 117AD (393AUC) the consules were L. Caecilius Metellus Diadematus
and Q. Mucius Scaevola.


Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus TRP


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Traianus Valerius"
<genstraiana@y...> wrote:
> Would the 9th of August be shown as:
>
> Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?
>
> And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>
> Thanks
> Ita di deaque faxint!
> Marcus Traianus Valerius
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gens Traiana Home Page
> www.geocities.com/genstraiana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24757 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Avete Omnes,

Actually in 117 AD the Consuls were:

117 Q. Aquilius Niger, M. Rebilus Apronianus

Here is the link I found the info:

http://www.fact-index.com/l/li/list_of_early_imperial_roman_consuls.html

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question


Salve,

On 117AUC the consules ordinarii were L. Valerius Potitus and P.
Cornelius Maluginensis. Valerius was suceeded by the consul sufectus
L. Lucretius Tricipitinus Flavus.

On 117AD (393AUC) the consules were L. Caecilius Metellus Diadematus
and Q. Mucius Scaevola.


Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus TRP


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Traianus Valerius"
<genstraiana@y...> wrote:
> Would the 9th of August be shown as:
>
> Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?
>
> And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>
> Thanks
> Ita di deaque faxint!
> Marcus Traianus Valerius
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gens Traiana Home Page
> www.geocities.com/genstraiana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24758 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Avete Marcus Traianus et Omnes,

To answer your first question I did a quick google search and found this website:

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/aegsa/rome/aug06.htm#aug09

Here is the info it provided for August 9th:

Modern Date : August 9th Market Day

ante diem V Idus August
The Festival of the Sun
This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens could vote on political or criminal matters.
This day is sacred to Sol Indiges, the solar deity. A public sacrifice was made by the priests on the Quirinal. The animals sacrificed by the temples were provided by the wealthy, or by temple donations, and afterwards they were used to provide free meals to the people attending the ceremonies, or to any poor or homeless people in the streets.
On this day in 48 BCE, Julius Caesar defeated Pompey's troops at Pharsalus, causing Pompey to flee to Egypt.
This was the day in 378 AD that the combined forces of the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths inflicted a crushing defeat on the Romans at Hadrianople, and killed the emperor Valens. The empire never recovered militarily and severe decline set in after this. The event had been entirely unnecessary -- the Visigoths had agreed to an alliance in exchange for land, after being forced out by the Huns, but corrupt Roman officials had so exploited and abused them that they became outraged.
August was originally called Sextilis, or the sixth month (after March). It was renamed in honor of Augustus Caesar, the most revered of the Roman emperors.











Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Traianus Valerius
To: NovaRoma Main List
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question


Would the 9th of August be shown as:

Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?

And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?

Thanks
Ita di deaque faxint!
Marcus Traianus Valerius

------------------------------------------------------------
Gens Traiana Home Page
www.geocities.com/genstraiana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24759 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Salvete Quirites,

Marcus Traianus Valerius asked:

> Would the 9th of August be shown as:
>
> Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?

No, the Romans kept time in terms of the number of days until the next
major day. So it was always either the Kalends, Nones, or Ides; or some
number of days before one of those. In the case of 9 Aug, it would be
ante diem V Id. Sextillis. (Five days before the ides of Sextillis.
It's five, and not four, because Roman custom is to include the current
day in the count.)

I often say that the Romans would have loved having a space program,
since the countdown was a cultural norm with them.

> And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?

As Tribune Faustus has just recently posted, L. Caecilius Metellus
Diadematus and Q. Mucius Scaevola.

Valete Quirites,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24760 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Thank you. I am working on gathering info for Traianus (my adopted ancestor) for the Gens website.

Ita di deaque faxint!
Marcus Traianus Valerius

------------------------------------------------------------
Gens Traiana Home Page
www.geocities.com/genstraiana
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question


Avete Omnes,

Actually in 117 AD the Consuls were:

117 Q. Aquilius Niger, M. Rebilus Apronianus

Here is the link I found the info:

http://www.fact-index.com/l/li/list_of_early_imperial_roman_consuls.html

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question


Salve,

On 117AUC the consules ordinarii were L. Valerius Potitus and P.
Cornelius Maluginensis. Valerius was suceeded by the consul sufectus
L. Lucretius Tricipitinus Flavus.

On 117AD (393AUC) the consules were L. Caecilius Metellus Diadematus
and Q. Mucius Scaevola.


Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus TRP


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Traianus Valerius"
<genstraiana@y...> wrote:
> Would the 9th of August be shown as:
>
> Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?
>
> And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>
> Thanks
> Ita di deaque faxint!
> Marcus Traianus Valerius
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gens Traiana Home Page
> www.geocities.com/genstraiana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24761 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
Salve, Valerii

This was a trick one. Do you, Valerii, want the consules on AFTER
CHRIST (Anno Domine) or BEFORE CHRIST (AC for neolatin languages)?

On doubt, sum 753 to the years after christ and write the AUC, ad
urbe condita, since the foundation of Rome. Or do you want the
consules on 117AUC?

If they are Imperial Consules, remember the consulship was not
yearly, but the consules remained two-three months only, but this is
not a rule. The first consules, the ordinarii, gave the name to the
year, but problably there was much more than two consules on one
year. So if you pick the names to the Imperial Consules ordinarii,
make an estimative they left the office on february-march.

Perhaps it is for some Historic Romance, and this is important.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Marcus Traianus Valerius asked:
>
> > Would the 9th of August be shown as:
> >
> > Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?
>
> No, the Romans kept time in terms of the number of days until the
next
> major day. So it was always either the Kalends, Nones, or Ides; or
some
> number of days before one of those. In the case of 9 Aug, it would
be
> ante diem V Id. Sextillis. (Five days before the ides of
Sextillis.
> It's five, and not four, because Roman custom is to include the
current
> day in the count.)
>
> I often say that the Romans would have loved having a space
program,
> since the countdown was a cultural norm with them.
>
> > And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>
> As Tribune Faustus has just recently posted, L. Caecilius Metellus
> Diadematus and Q. Mucius Scaevola.
>
> Valete Quirites,
>
> -- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24762 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Salve, Valerii
>
> This was a trick one. Do you, Valerii, want the consules on AFTER
> CHRIST (Anno Domine) or BEFORE CHRIST (AC for neolatin languages)?


It wasn't a trick question, it's just your eyes playing tricks on
you. :-) He specifically asked for the consuls in 117 AD (Anno
Domini).

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24763 From: Marcus Traianus Valerius Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
That was Anno Domini.. Sorry...

Thanks to everyone that offered assistance!!!


----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question


Salve, Valerii

This was a trick one. Do you, Valerii, want the consules on AFTER
CHRIST (Anno Domine) or BEFORE CHRIST (AC for neolatin languages)?

On doubt, sum 753 to the years after christ and write the AUC, ad
urbe condita, since the foundation of Rome. Or do you want the
consules on 117AUC?

If they are Imperial Consules, remember the consulship was not
yearly, but the consules remained two-three months only, but this is
not a rule. The first consules, the ordinarii, gave the name to the
year, but problably there was much more than two consules on one
year. So if you pick the names to the Imperial Consules ordinarii,
make an estimative they left the office on february-march.

Perhaps it is for some Historic Romance, and this is important.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Marcus Traianus Valerius asked:
>
> > Would the 9th of August be shown as:
> >
> > Ninth day from the Kalends of Sextilis...?
>
> No, the Romans kept time in terms of the number of days until the
next
> major day. So it was always either the Kalends, Nones, or Ides; or
some
> number of days before one of those. In the case of 9 Aug, it would
be
> ante diem V Id. Sextillis. (Five days before the ides of
Sextillis.
> It's five, and not four, because Roman custom is to include the
current
> day in the count.)
>
> I often say that the Romans would have loved having a space
program,
> since the countdown was a cultural norm with them.
>
> > And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>
> As Tribune Faustus has just recently posted, L. Caecilius Metellus
> Diadematus and Q. Mucius Scaevola.
>
> Valete Quirites,
>
> -- Marinus


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24764 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Salve Cato,

Well my friend we must agree to disagree. I have already covered
before what I think are the problems with relying on constitutions
and not meeting the challenge of developing the mos.

The mos to me, at least, would be the formulation of certain key
principles from which Nova Roma cannot depart. To a large extent
those principles would be drawn from the principles of Antiquity.
They would not always be a mirror image because we meet new
challenges today which never had to be contended with in Antiquity.
Where we have to "develop" or "rediscover" elements of the mos, we
would be guided by principles extant from that period which exemplify
Romanitas. My view only - I don't know we have ever as a community
got far enough to even agree on the methodology for pursuing this
project.

The point about elevating the mos is not to produce a proto-deity
which (unless I am mistaken) appears to be what you or others think
that I am articulating. It is to enshrine key principles that will
stand the test of time and survive laws and constitutions.

After sufficent passage of time I suspect that the majority of the
elements of the constitution would find their way into the mos. The
mos as a collection of principles is valueless unless the citizens
accept it. At that point the constitution would be irrelevant as the
mos would be ingrained in the community.

The problem is that Fuscus (it seems this way to me anyway)
consistently raises the spectre of shadowy personages deciding what
the mos is and imposing it on some brow-beaten citizenry. He appears
to view the calls to establish the mos as some sort of plot to
subjugate everyone under a myserious and secret set of rules.

Frankly that is utter piffle of the highest order. Sheer bunkum. It
is scare mongering, whether deliberate or whether because he actually
believes it. Instead of Fuscus (virtually) hopping around on one leg
every time the mos is mentioned and implying all this twadle, we
would be better served by meeting the real challenge - the ultimate
challenge - of taking the principles of antiquity and clearly and
cogently spelling them out. Of course people will disagree and
debate, but at least we will be heading in a positive direction at
that point.

Laws can be bad. Laws can be poorly written. Constitutions can be
amended. The mos would be harder to re-animate but infintely
stronger. I have no idea why so much negativity surrounds the most
exciting and ultimately unifying project we could ever undertake. To
build a national set of principles that are the collective expression
of the community? Why would you, Cato, not want a part of that?

Fuscus is a lawyer. Lawyers regard every law and constitution as
changeable. The key is to make the mos more impervious to idle
changes, which can happen under laws. There is no formula yet for
building the mos again because of this incessant bleating and hand
wringing that starts evertime the mos is mentioned. It really is,
sorry, very very silly and timewasting to do this.

I am not advocating a means to divide, but a means to unify. It may
take years to get there, but if we don't start somewhere we will be
stuck in this rut. So come on Cato, why don't we re-animate that
discussion on the mos in Continuum and see where it goes? I want
everyone to think about the mos and we should develop a forum soley
dedicated to this - where everyone can go and discuss rationally and
sanely the whys and hows. If however such discussions have to endure
opposition in principle then it will be another fatuous waste of time.

If you are discouraged I refer to "scribbling", I am very discouraged
by this Nelsonian blindness that seems to grip some people over the
mos. I believe passionately that we can collectively do this and I
will not allow Fuscus the field to engage in all this "chicken
little, the sky is falling" style of debate on the mos, without
challenging him on it.

I maybe somewhat direct but there is no law yet (until Fuscus writes
one no doubt) preventing me from honestly but moderately making my
points. Laws will fade and be repealed or become irrelevant.
Principles will endure.

Vale

Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24765 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Question
In a message dated 6/16/04 9:03:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
genstraiana@... writes:

> And Does anyone happen to know who the consul's were in 117AD?
>

Salvete

By this time, the Consul position was more an prominent
achievement to Senators and the last stage of the Cursus
Honorum. Each Roman year was still named for the Consuls
Ordinarii. Under the Republic they had served for a calendar
year. Now they would only served for two to three months, before
being succeeded by a series of replacements(Consuls Suffecti).
This permitted more Senators to achieve the Consulship in each
year. This meant that there were repeated consulships held be
competent men. A number behind a Senators name indicated how many
times he had the consulship.

If you want to know who the Consuls Ordinarii were for 117, I believe Cassius
Dio has
that information. Off hand I do not remember.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24766 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Ex Officio Consulis Gnaei Equiti Marini

EDICTVM CONSVLARE A GNAEO EQVITIO MARINO VII:


De Nominatione Accensi

Concerning the Naming of an Assistant


Tempus consulare praesens ex hoc edicto civem sequentem accensum meum
una cum officiis privilegiisque omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae
designo.

I hereby appoint the following citizen as my accensus, together with all
the obligations and privileges prescribed by the laws of Nova Roma.


Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus (antea Spurius Postumius
Tubertus) accensus designatur.

Quintus Caecilius Postumianus (formerly Spurius Postumius Tubertus) is
appointed accensus.


Quidquam ius iurandum non poscetur.

He shall not be required to make any kind of oath.


Hoc edictum statim valet.

This edict is effective immediately.


Datum sub manu mea ante diem XVI Kal. QVINTILES MMDCCLVII A.V.C.

Given under my hand this 16th day of June, 2004 C.E.


Gnaeo Salici Asturi Gnaeo Equitio Marino Consulibus

In the Consulship of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24767 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Salvete Quirites,

I know it's normally bad form to followup to one's own post, but for
this I'll make an exception.

> Quintus Caecilius Postumianus (formerly Spurius Postumius Tubertus) is
> appointed accensus.

This young man has been participating in Nova Roma for several years
now. He has been active in the sodalites, and has participated as an
accensus iunior in the work of last year's consul Caeso Fabius
Quintillianus as well as in my consular cohort in the same capacity.
Earlier this month, he attained his majority. I am pleased to finally
be able to appoint him to the job he has already been performing so well.

Congratulations Postumianus. You have honored me by your service and it
is my pleasure to now name you Accensus.

Valete Quirites,

--
Gn. Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24768 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Comitia Centuriata Convened
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Consul Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dixit

In accordance with our laws, pullarius Gaius Iulius Scaurus has taken
an auspicium at my request, for the purpose of convening the Comitia
Centuriata. The augury being favorable, I now convene the Comitia
Centuriata for the purpose of electing a replacement for Censor Marcus
Octavius Germanicus, who has resigned; and to vote on a Constitutional
Amendment which will define conditions under which a missing magistrate
may be found to have vacated office.

Currently there is only one declared candidate to fill the vacancy,
though other candidates may declare over the course of the next several
days. If other candidates do declare I shall announce those names in a
revised posting of this convening order.

Candidate for Censor:

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, date of Citizenship: 1998/03/01


=== Begin Text of Proposed Constitutional Amendment ==============

Lex Equitia Galeria de Ordinarii

Article IV of the Nova Roma Constitution is amended to read as follows.

IV. Magistrates are the elected and appointed officials responsible for
the maintenance and conduct of the affairs of state. There are two
categories of magistrates: those who are ordinarily elected, the
ordinarii; and those who are only occasionally appointed or
elected, the extraordinarii. Qualifications necessary to hold these
positions may be enacted by law properly passed by one of the comitia.

Should an office in mid-term become vacant -- and a vacancy shall occur
if the magistrate resigns, dies while in office, or has not been in
contact with the Senate or the Censors for a period of two months,
unless prior notification of required absence has been provided to the
Senate and the People -- the Censors will declare publicly that they
have tried and failed to find the missing magistrate. If suitable
candidates are at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate
comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term
within forty-five days of the Censors' public declaration. Should one of
the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, as defined by the
comitia that elected him, that magistrate may be removed by a law
originating in the comitia that elected him.

The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

=== End Text of Constitutional Amendment =============================


The Centuria Praerogativa, which shall vote first, will be the IX Century.

Schedule for the Contio and vote:

16 Iun (dies comitialis) Contio begins 21:00 Roma time
17 Iun (dies comitialis)
18 Iun (dies comitialis)
19 Iun (dies comitialis)
20 Iun (dies comitialis)
21 Iun (dies comitialis) Voting begins 00:01 Roma time
22 Iun (dies comitialis)
23 Iun (dies comitialis)
24 Iun (dies comitialis)
25 Mai (dies comitialis)
26 Mai (dies comitialis)
27 Mai (dies comitialis)
28 Mai (dies comitialis)
29 Mai (dies comitialis)
30 Mai (dies comitialis) Voting ends midnight (00:00) Roma time


Valete Quirites,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24769 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Ave omnes

Ave omnes

Iulius, are you really so obsessed with me that you have to name me 6 or 7
times, covering me with all kind of offences and pretending to analyze my
mind (are you telepathic? A professional net-psychologist?), even in mails
addressed to third persons?

Besides, I did propose to create a group (months ago and again today) to put
down the Mos Maiorum and you, *again*, decided to ignore it (and you pretend
to be the one saying to start the challenge! But when someone says ok, let's
do it, you prefer to skip it.. ah well). Of course, if you can't but label
as paranoid whoever has an opinion that differs from yours, the group will
do little of practical use indeed, but such is life, the proposal is there.

The funny thing is that we are saying the same thing, the mos has to be put
down in written form to be of any use, but you are too blinded by hatred, or
whatever it is, to see it. Maybe if you and the ones who more support the
mos maiorum were slightly more civil in bringing forward your ideas you
wouldn't meet with "Nelsonian blindness" and if you think you are
"moderately" making your point by using the sentences you use, God saves us
from when you will drop your moderate suit.

Btw, I'm not a lawyer, and in any case, your wild generalization about
lawyers is as good as any wild generalizations of this world and even if by
an obscure coincidence of the universe, this particular wild generalization
was true, I could, for all you know, be the exception to the general rule.
Together with all the lawyers are bad do you, by chance, think that all
Italians have mafia ties? Just to know.

Incidentally, I guess that calling a fellow civis paranoid and comparing
him to a pig cartoon character is fair game for the moderators of the
group... sad. And then you and others complain if someone goes directly to
the praetor. Not once I dropped an insult your way, yet you can't refrain
from doing it, considering the moderators won't do anything, what else is
one supposed to do?

Annoying, and sad.

DCF

PF Constantinia
Aedilis Urbis
Curator of the Codex Juris Novae Romae Constantini

> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar [mailto:gn_iulius_caesar@...]
> Inviato: mercoledì 16 giugno 2004 20.49
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> Well my friend we must agree to disagree. I have already covered
> before what I think are the problems with relying on constitutions
> and not meeting the challenge of developing the mos.
>
> The mos to me, at least, would be the formulation of certain key
> principles from which Nova Roma cannot depart. To a large extent
> those principles would be drawn from the principles of Antiquity.
> They would not always be a mirror image because we meet new
> challenges today which never had to be contended with in Antiquity.
> Where we have to "develop" or "rediscover" elements of the mos, we
> would be guided by principles extant from that period which exemplify
> Romanitas. My view only - I don't know we have ever as a community
> got far enough to even agree on the methodology for pursuing this
> project.
>
> The point about elevating the mos is not to produce a proto-deity
> which (unless I am mistaken) appears to be what you or others think
> that I am articulating. It is to enshrine key principles that will
> stand the test of time and survive laws and constitutions.
>
> After sufficent passage of time I suspect that the majority of the
> elements of the constitution would find their way into the mos. The
> mos as a collection of principles is valueless unless the citizens
> accept it. At that point the constitution would be irrelevant as the
> mos would be ingrained in the community.
>
> The problem is that Fuscus (it seems this way to me anyway)
> consistently raises the spectre of shadowy personages deciding what
> the mos is and imposing it on some brow-beaten citizenry. He appears
> to view the calls to establish the mos as some sort of plot to
> subjugate everyone under a myserious and secret set of rules.
>
> Frankly that is utter piffle of the highest order. Sheer bunkum. It
> is scare mongering, whether deliberate or whether because he actually
> believes it. Instead of Fuscus (virtually) hopping around on one leg
> every time the mos is mentioned and implying all this twadle, we
> would be better served by meeting the real challenge - the ultimate
> challenge - of taking the principles of antiquity and clearly and
> cogently spelling them out. Of course people will disagree and
> debate, but at least we will be heading in a positive direction at
> that point.
>
> Laws can be bad. Laws can be poorly written. Constitutions can be
> amended. The mos would be harder to re-animate but infintely
> stronger. I have no idea why so much negativity surrounds the most
> exciting and ultimately unifying project we could ever undertake. To
> build a national set of principles that are the collective expression
> of the community? Why would you, Cato, not want a part of that?
>
> Fuscus is a lawyer. Lawyers regard every law and constitution as
> changeable. The key is to make the mos more impervious to idle
> changes, which can happen under laws. There is no formula yet for
> building the mos again because of this incessant bleating and hand
> wringing that starts evertime the mos is mentioned. It really is,
> sorry, very very silly and timewasting to do this.
>
> I am not advocating a means to divide, but a means to unify. It may
> take years to get there, but if we don't start somewhere we will be
> stuck in this rut. So come on Cato, why don't we re-animate that
> discussion on the mos in Continuum and see where it goes? I want
> everyone to think about the mos and we should develop a forum soley
> dedicated to this - where everyone can go and discuss rationally and
> sanely the whys and hows. If however such discussions have to endure
> opposition in principle then it will be another fatuous waste of time.
>
> If you are discouraged I refer to "scribbling", I am very discouraged
> by this Nelsonian blindness that seems to grip some people over the
> mos. I believe passionately that we can collectively do this and I
> will not allow Fuscus the field to engage in all this "chicken
> little, the sky is falling" style of debate on the mos, without
> challenging him on it.
>
> I maybe somewhat direct but there is no law yet (until Fuscus writes
> one no doubt) preventing me from honestly but moderately making my
> points. Laws will fade and be repealed or become irrelevant.
> Principles will endure.
>
> Vale
>
> Caesar
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24770 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Allegation of Impropriety
[posted, with copy to DCF]


Salvete Quirites, et salve Fusce,

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus wrote:

> Incidentally, I guess that calling a fellow civis paranoid and comparing
> him to a pig cartoon character is fair game for the moderators of the
> group... sad.

Would you please provide me with a specific reference? The current
active moderators of this mailing list are Decius Iunius Palladius,
Lucius Iulius Sulla, and me. Others watch over the list on occassion,
but it's the three of us who have taken it upon ourselves to monitor the
goings-on. If I missed something actionable in the long exchange of
posts I'd appreciate you bringing the matter to me (via e-mail to
Nova-Roma-owner AT yahoogroups DOT com) and the other moderators. We'll
gladly look at the issue for you.

That said, just in general a comparison to a cartoon character is not of
itself sufficient to warrant a private admonition to a citizen from the
moderators. Furthermore, admonitions are not normally made known to any
but the other moderators and the person admonished.

> And then you and others complain if someone goes directly to
> the praetor.

As you know, we have one semi-active Praetor right now. You'll get
quicker action by writing to the people who are actually following the
mailing list.

> Not once I dropped an insult your way, yet you can't refrain
> from doing it, considering the moderators won't do anything, what else is
> one supposed to do?

The moderators will do much, Fuscus. Stop trying to undermine our
authority with the Populace. If you have a complaint, bring it to us
and stop carrying out these pointless discussions in the public forum.

Quirites, please know that we are watching, but we can't possibly catch
everything. If you see something that you think is a violation of list
policies, please bring it to our attention.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24771 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus and learning the Office
Salve Quirites et Illustris Gaius Modius Athanasius!

>Gaius Modius Athanasius L. Sicinio Druso salutem dicit
>
>I agree. I know that Censor Caeso Fabius has been working to learn
>the office, and has commented that it is not an easy office to hold
>and has also stated that there is much to learn in administering the
>duties fo the office.

Today I think that I truely can say that I have already learnt all
the tasks that I have taken as my tasks and more. I may even have one
thing or another to _teach_ today. ;-)

Still there are some tasks that require a skilled computer wizard
(which I'm not) to fullfil or maybe a Curator Araneum (which we don't
have either).

>It makes perfect sense to have a censor suffectus that has
>*experience* at being a censor, and one who will not need to be
>training to fulfill the responsibilities of office.

Well most of the job that need to be done require good computer
skills or assistants with such skills.

>If the people want to elect a former quaestor or provincial
>magistrate to censor then so be it, but that will mean that the
>current Censor will have yet another responsiblity; train the new
>censor.

I might have to do that anyway as many tasks are new or at least different.

>Valete;
>
>Gaius Modius Athanasius
>Tribunus Plebis, Flamen Pomonalis, Pontifex, and Augur.


--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24772 From: Michael Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso quiritibusque S.P.D.

salve Caesar et salvete omnes.

Caesar, amice, I think that you and I are indeed looking at the same
thing and calling it by different names perhaps. The "enshrinement
of key principles" is, to my mind, exactly the position that the
Constitution should take. The "mos" should in fact be the root and
trunk of the Constitution. As you say, laws can be changed, and
constitutions amended; the U.S. Constitution has indeed been amended,
but the key issues contained therein have remained the same
throughout the past two centuries. The amendments *mostly* involve
including greater and greater parts of the people living in the U.S.
in the benefits outlined in the Constitution; i.e., abolition of
slavery, enfranchisement of both ex-slaves and eventually women, etc.

The "mos" of the U.S. has changed, and with it, the Constitution,
exemplifying perfectly the vision I have of the place of the
Constitution and the "mos"; the "mos" of the U.S. is still evolving,
and so laws are continually adopted and discarded to reflect that
evolution.

The fear that I have (and perhaps have imperfectly explained) is that
the "mos" itself might become brittle and stagnant de jure, while de
facto it must by its very definition be malleable and adaptable.

I am, perhaps, exactly UNlike my namesake the great Marcus Porcius
Cato "the Censor" in that I recognize that it is impossible to turn
the clock back to the "good old days" completely; that the "mos" has
evolved and we must recognize it and evolve with it. The best way to
do so, in my humble opinion, is to reflect those changes, those
advancements, in laws that take them into account.

I would be pleased to continue this in the Continuum, but as long as
we can debate (if that's not too strong a word) like civilized
Romans, I see no problem in carrying on here. I leave that to your
discretion.

As for your Frustration With Fuscus, my friend, I can only say that
it may be that the two of you, like the clarissimus pontifex Scaurus
and I, must simply agree that your world-views are different to the
point of almost incompatibility. I say "almost" because I believe
that in the end, Scaurus acts in what he sincerely believes is for
the best and greatest of the State, and I think he may think likewise
of me, although we disagree vehemently on some issues. I think that
Fuscus, like most Italians (and as a first-generation Italian-
American I include myself in this boat), enjoys the thrust and parry
of loud discussion to a fault; in my own family, you pretty much have
to be nose-to-nose with someone to hear each other over the
shouting :-) We may smack each other on the backs of our heads, but
we always end up eating together...

vale et valete,

Cato





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Cato,
>
> Well my friend we must agree to disagree. I have already covered
> before what I think are the problems with relying on constitutions
> and not meeting the challenge of developing the mos.
>
> The mos to me, at least, would be the formulation of certain key
> principles from which Nova Roma cannot depart. To a large extent
> those principles would be drawn from the principles of Antiquity.
> They would not always be a mirror image because we meet new
> challenges today which never had to be contended with in Antiquity.
> Where we have to "develop" or "rediscover" elements of the mos, we
> would be guided by principles extant from that period which
exemplify
> Romanitas. >
> The point about elevating the mos is not to produce a proto-deity
> which (unless I am mistaken) appears to be what you or others think
> that I am articulating. It is to enshrine key principles that will
> stand the test of time and survive laws and constitutions.
>
> After sufficent passage of time I suspect that the majority of the
> elements of the constitution would find their way into the mos. The
> mos as a collection of principles is valueless unless the citizens
> accept it. At that point the constitution would be irrelevant as
the
> mos would be ingrained in the community.
>
> Laws can be bad. Laws can be poorly written. Constitutions can be
> amended. The mos would be harder to re-animate but infintely
> stronger. I have no idea why so much negativity surrounds the most
> exciting and ultimately unifying project we could ever undertake.
To
> build a national set of principles that are the collective
expression
> of the community? Why would you, Cato, not want a part of that?
>
> Fuscus is a lawyer. Lawyers regard every law and constitution as
> changeable. The key is to make the mos more impervious to idle
> changes, which can happen under laws. There is no formula yet for
> building the mos again because of this incessant bleating and hand
> wringing that starts evertime the mos is mentioned. It really is,
> sorry, very very silly and timewasting to do this.
>
> I am not advocating a means to divide, but a means to unify. It may
> take years to get there, but if we don't start somewhere we will be
> stuck in this rut. So come on Cato, why don't we re-animate that
> discussion on the mos in Continuum and see where it goes? I want
> everyone to think about the mos and we should develop a forum soley
> dedicated to this - where everyone can go and discuss rationally
and
> sanely the whys and hows. If however such discussions have to
endure
> opposition in principle then it will be another fatuous waste of
time.
>
> If you are discouraged I refer to "scribbling", I am very
discouraged
> by this Nelsonian blindness that seems to grip some people over the
> mos. I believe passionately that we can collectively do this and I
> will not allow Fuscus the field to engage in all this "chicken
> little, the sky is falling" style of debate on the mos, without
> challenging him on it.
>
> I maybe somewhat direct but there is no law yet (until Fuscus
writes
> one no doubt) preventing me from honestly but moderately making my
> points. Laws will fade and be repealed or become irrelevant.
> Principles will endure.
>
> Vale
>
> Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24773 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Salve Fusce

I most certainly am not obsessed with you. I think you advocate a
very poor future for NR. That is just my opinion - yours I am sure is
that your vision is all fine and dandy I do not hate you. Why do have
to get so emotional about everything? I hardly think saying you are
at risk of developing an Elmer Fudd fixation is so awful. You may
disagree but I doubt anyone will henceforth visualize you as a pig.

No <big sigh> of course I don't think all Italians have mafia ties
anymore than people in their 80's and 90's in Chicago were part of
the mob, or everyone that goes to a football game in the UK is a
hooligan. Again such dramatic excess. I am being moderate but I just
maybe more direct in my points than you like. Sorry - I call a spade
a spade.

As to lawyers - well they are not the most popular or admired group
on the planet. I know some fine lawyers. I also know some that barely
graze above the level of pond-life through their associations with
criminals (back in the UK). As to you...well you studied law and you
describe yourself on your CV as a legal assistant. If you are a non-
practiscing lawyer I can refer to you as "the legal assistant"
or "the non-practising lawyer", or anything you like. If you want to
be called a "donought" then I will ensure that is how I address you.

As to paranoid - I am not responsible for your behavioural
typecasting. Clearly you think there are "fell-deeds" afoot (I
thought you would appreciate the small Tolkien like reference). I
contend that is paranonia. That is my opinion only. No I am not a
medical person, and if you feel in need of one then I am sure Rome's
Yellow Pages has copious listings for them. Shrinks are a bit like
lawyers and bunnies...they seem to magically expand to fill the
living space available.

I am glad you have clarified - finally - that your only objection to
establishing the mos is that we write it down. Now we can all start
work on determining what should go into the mos. A most satisfactory
end to the issue.

Vale
Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24774 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Salve Honorable Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo!

> > > It makes perfect sense to have a censor suffectus that has
>*experience* at being a censor, and one who will not need to be
>training to fulfill the responsibilities of office. If the people
>want to elect a former quaestor or provincial magistrate to censor
>then so be it, but that will mean that the current Censor will have
>yet another responsiblity; train the new censor.
>
>Pompeia: Well, judging by what I know of the capabilities of Caeso
>Fabius, he is known to be a quick learner, a gem at referencing this
>historically, for consideration of any legislation he has proposed,
>and has no difficulty conveying instructions to another person. So,
>his 'training' an already responsible person with good learning skills
>and experience in Nova Roma government is quite doable.

I am very flattered by your kind words! I also agree that it would be
possible for me to guide a colleague at this point of my term. There
is nothing new with that as it is my profession to guide or teach.
;-) Further if I do this two times during my term or one time is of
no consequence.

>The point is, they 'are' qualified to run, and it is up to the voters
>to make responsible decisions.

I certainly agree with You here!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24775 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
Salve Cato

I didn't think you objected outright to the mos. Your concern over
stagnation is valid, but I am sure as a community we could rise to
that challenge. Constitutions are equally prone to that sort of
stagnation.

The difference is not really in how we record the mos or its
updating, but getting everyone to understand that what is needed is
that national mindset that would underpin the mos. That is the real
key and the real beauty of the mos. That is how it differs from a
constitution. A parrot can recite a constitution - it doesn't mean
the parrot understands it or it is of relevance to the life of a
parrot. It just mimics sounds.

Some of the mos will eventually be oral tradition, probably not much
but some of the newer aspects as it develops.

Anyway of course I am willing to continue this in Continuum and as
long as I don't see the debate drifting towards whether we need the
mos, rather than "how do we make this work", then I think that it
would be both relevant and productive. What we decide there won't
decide anything, but it will start the cognitive process in a
positive way amongst some of us (hopefully).

I will be unavailable over the next few weeks, so don't take my
silence for then backing off from the discussion. I will pick the
threads up in July.

Vale
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> salve Caesar et salvete omnes.
>
> Caesar, amice, I think that you and I are indeed looking at the
same
> thing and calling it by different names perhaps. The "enshrinement
> of key principles" is, to my mind, exactly the position that the
> Constitution should take. The "mos" should in fact be the root and
> trunk of the Constitution. As you say, laws can be changed, and
> constitutions amended; the U.S. Constitution has indeed been
amended,
> but the key issues contained therein have remained the same
> throughout the past two centuries. The amendments *mostly* involve
> including greater and greater parts of the people living in the
U.S.
> in the benefits outlined in the Constitution; i.e., abolition of
> slavery, enfranchisement of both ex-slaves and eventually women,
etc.
>
> The "mos" of the U.S. has changed, and with it, the Constitution,
> exemplifying perfectly the vision I have of the place of the
> Constitution and the "mos"; the "mos" of the U.S. is still
evolving,
> and so laws are continually adopted and discarded to reflect that
> evolution.
>
> The fear that I have (and perhaps have imperfectly explained) is
that
> the "mos" itself might become brittle and stagnant de jure, while
de
> facto it must by its very definition be malleable and adaptable.
>
> I am, perhaps, exactly UNlike my namesake the great Marcus Porcius
> Cato "the Censor" in that I recognize that it is impossible to turn
> the clock back to the "good old days" completely; that the "mos"
has
> evolved and we must recognize it and evolve with it. The best way
to
> do so, in my humble opinion, is to reflect those changes, those
> advancements, in laws that take them into account.
>
> I would be pleased to continue this in the Continuum, but as long
as
> we can debate (if that's not too strong a word) like civilized
> Romans, I see no problem in carrying on here. I leave that to your
> discretion.
>
> As for your Frustration With Fuscus, my friend, I can only say that
> it may be that the two of you, like the clarissimus pontifex
Scaurus
> and I, must simply agree that your world-views are different to the
> point of almost incompatibility. I say "almost" because I believe
> that in the end, Scaurus acts in what he sincerely believes is for
> the best and greatest of the State, and I think he may think
likewise
> of me, although we disagree vehemently on some issues. I think
that
> Fuscus, like most Italians (and as a first-generation Italian-
> American I include myself in this boat), enjoys the thrust and
parry
> of loud discussion to a fault; in my own family, you pretty much
have
> to be nose-to-nose with someone to hear each other over the
> shouting :-) We may smack each other on the backs of our heads,
but
> we always end up eating together...
>
> vale et valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Cato,
> >
> > Well my friend we must agree to disagree. I have already covered
> > before what I think are the problems with relying on
constitutions
> > and not meeting the challenge of developing the mos.
> >
> > The mos to me, at least, would be the formulation of certain key
> > principles from which Nova Roma cannot depart. To a large extent
> > those principles would be drawn from the principles of Antiquity.
> > They would not always be a mirror image because we meet new
> > challenges today which never had to be contended with in
Antiquity.
> > Where we have to "develop" or "rediscover" elements of the mos,
we
> > would be guided by principles extant from that period which
> exemplify
> > Romanitas. >
> > The point about elevating the mos is not to produce a proto-deity
> > which (unless I am mistaken) appears to be what you or others
think
> > that I am articulating. It is to enshrine key principles that
will
> > stand the test of time and survive laws and constitutions.
> >
> > After sufficent passage of time I suspect that the majority of
the
> > elements of the constitution would find their way into the mos.
The
> > mos as a collection of principles is valueless unless the
citizens
> > accept it. At that point the constitution would be irrelevant as
> the
> > mos would be ingrained in the community.
> >
> > Laws can be bad. Laws can be poorly written. Constitutions can be
> > amended. The mos would be harder to re-animate but infintely
> > stronger. I have no idea why so much negativity surrounds the
most
> > exciting and ultimately unifying project we could ever undertake.
> To
> > build a national set of principles that are the collective
> expression
> > of the community? Why would you, Cato, not want a part of that?
> >
> > Fuscus is a lawyer. Lawyers regard every law and constitution as
> > changeable. The key is to make the mos more impervious to idle
> > changes, which can happen under laws. There is no formula yet for
> > building the mos again because of this incessant bleating and
hand
> > wringing that starts evertime the mos is mentioned. It really is,
> > sorry, very very silly and timewasting to do this.
> >
> > I am not advocating a means to divide, but a means to unify. It
may
> > take years to get there, but if we don't start somewhere we will
be
> > stuck in this rut. So come on Cato, why don't we re-animate that
> > discussion on the mos in Continuum and see where it goes? I want
> > everyone to think about the mos and we should develop a forum
soley
> > dedicated to this - where everyone can go and discuss rationally
> and
> > sanely the whys and hows. If however such discussions have to
> endure
> > opposition in principle then it will be another fatuous waste of
> time.
> >
> > If you are discouraged I refer to "scribbling", I am very
> discouraged
> > by this Nelsonian blindness that seems to grip some people over
the
> > mos. I believe passionately that we can collectively do this and
I
> > will not allow Fuscus the field to engage in all this "chicken
> > little, the sky is falling" style of debate on the mos, without
> > challenging him on it.
> >
> > I maybe somewhat direct but there is no law yet (until Fuscus
> writes
> > one no doubt) preventing me from honestly but moderately making
my
> > points. Laws will fade and be repealed or become irrelevant.
> > Principles will endure.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24776 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: New file uploaded to Nova-Roma
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Nova-Roma
group.

File : /MainlistGuidelines
Uploaded by : equitius_marinus <gawne@...>
Description : Posting Guidelines for Nova-Roma

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/MainlistGuidelines

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

equitius_marinus <gawne@...>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24777 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Updating the Tabularium
A. Apollonius Cordus to his friend Q. Caecilius
Metellus Postumianus, and to all citizens and
peregrines, greetings.

First of all, let me applaud your continuing hard work
on the website - a less diligent man would have given
up when faced with the sudden resignation of his boss,
but you seem on the contrary to have taken on still
more work.

Next I hope I may comment on a couple of your remarks.

> Let me begin with this: If my understanding of the
> law around here is correct, the Lex Arminia de
> Ratione is null and void any which way you look at
> it, simply because it has to do strictly with a
> plebeian matter and went to the Comitia Populi
> Tributa instead of the Comitia Plebis Tributa. In
> order for it to have any legal force whatsoever, it
> needs to be proposed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> and ratified by the plebeian assembly.

From the way this sentence of yours fits into the
context of your whole message, I presume that this
doesn't mean that you intend not to enter the law into
the tabularium; and indeed I see that you have entered
it, for there it is. Your interpretation may be
correct (we shall see in due course whether the
tribunes agree), but the lex Arminina is a duly
created expression of the will of the people and must
be recorded, even if its legal effect is nil.

You also say,

> To add one more thing, Paragraph I.D. of the
> Constitution states that only the Comitia Centuriata
> may amend the Constitution, and such must be
> approved by a 2/3 majority of the Senate. If my
> understanding of the law is right again, adding
> duties to the job description of a constitutionally
> empowered magistrate is, in effect, a constitutional
> amendment, or should be. That being so, the Lex
> Arminia de Officiis Aedilium Plebis is also null and
> void on those grounds. If nothing else, since the
> Plebeian Aediles are Plebeian magistrates, this is a
> law which should have gone at least to the Plebeian
> Assembly, and not to the Comitia Populi. Perhaps the
> Praetors or the Senate can help in determining what
> should have been done here. Perhaps I'm wrong. We'll
> see what comes of things.

Giving additional duties to magistrates is, in my
view, by no means a constitutional amendment, it is
merely a constitutional supplement. If the alternative
were true, then many of the laws in the tabularium
would also be invalid: the lex Fabia de oppidiis at
municipiis, for instance, gives additional powers to
provincial governors and the senate; the lex Labiena
de praetoribus agendis in loco parentis gives
additional powers to the praetors; the various leges
de ratione comitiorum give the rogatores additional
powers. Indeed, if a constitutional amendment were
necessary to make legal something which was not
previously in the constitution, then every law would
have to be a constitutional amendment. So I think you
need not worry about the law on that count.

Regarding your other point, I would draw your
attention to the lex Salicia de tribunicia
convocatione comitiorum, articles I and II, which
require all tribunician bills to be submitted to the
comitia populi except those regarding the internal
operations of the concilium plebis, or elections of
plebeian magistrates, both of which must be done in
the concilium plebis. The law in question concerns the
office of plebeian aedile, but it does not concern the
internal operation of the concilium plebis and is not
an election, so the tribune was quite correct to
submit it to the comitia populi.

I hope you stand somewhat reassured. :)





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24778 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: C
A. Apollonius Cordus to Q. Cassius Calvus, and to all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> You're also correct about the Censor's office
> elections being
> completely ahistorical. Historically, if I remember
> correctly, the
> Censorship was a 5 year term and if one of the two
> died or left
> office for any reason there wasn't an election to
> replace him. The
> surviving Censor was to step down and the offices of
> Censor remained
> vacant for the remainder of the five years.

A small correction, if I may: the censors' term was
not five years, but a mere 18 months. They were,
however, only elected every 5 years. So for three and
a half years at a stretch there were no censors.

> Given the need of Nova Roma to have at least one
> functioning Censor
> at all times and the work load involved, I don't
> think that re-
> establishing a 5 year term (burn out) and should a
> vacancy occur the
> Censor's office be shut down for the remainder of
> the 5 years would
> be a good idea. While non-historical the present
> situation works
> for the most part and as the saying goes, "If it
> ain't broke, don't
> fix it."

It's always healthy to have one's axioms challenged,
so I hope you won't mind me challenging yours: Nova
Roma doesn't need at least one functioning censor at
all times. It needs some sort of person, group,
system, or institution which is capable of doing
continuously the things the censors currently do, but
it doesn't have the be the censors. Indeed I think it
would be far better for it not to be the censors.

This isn't simply because the censorship used to be
two for 18 months every 5 years and is now one for two
years every year; the problem goes deeper than one of
mere numerical disjunction. The fundamental nature of
the censorship has been transformed by the changes
Nova Roma has made to it. The Nova Roman censorship
has no inherent moral authority or supreme prestige
except the little bits we can scrape together by our
force of will: we know that the censorship ought to be
like that, so we try to regard it like that. But,
viewed objectively, the job of the censors of Nova
Roma is actually a tiresome, menial, bureaucratic job
which requires no great moral uprightness and carries
no inherent dignity. As we go up the cursus, the
menial and everyday tasks of the magistracies decrease
and the general policy-making and leadership duties
increase, so the dignity and prestige increases
accordingly. That is until one reaches the censorship,
which carries probably the heaviest burden of menial,
everday duties of any magistracy and therefore leaves
the holder with the smallest amount of time left to
fulfill the primary role of the historical censorship,
which was to preserve the moral life of the nation.
Think of past campaigns for censor: how much time have
candidates spent discussing the extent of their spare
time and the processing power of their computers, and
how much have they spent demonstrating their moral
virtue?

It's easy to see why the censorship is the way it is:
the need to deal with confidential information
suggests a need for trustworthiness and moral sense,
and the heavy workload needs a high prestige to make
peopl want it at all. It makes sense. But what ought
to have been an add-on to the main job of the censors
has become the whole job, and the menial nature of the
job has deprived the office of its prestige and of its
beneficial moral effect on the population. We have had
some very upright censors, with our current one high
on the list, but consider honestly when was the last
time you felt that any censor was doing anything - had
time to do anything - to elevate the moral wellbeing
of ordinary citizens?

I'm not normally one to agree with 'if it ain't broke,
don't fix it' to begin with, but in this case it's
beside the point: the censorship is 'broke'. It's
doing very well as a paperwork-processing job, but in
fulfilling its primary, traditional purpose (one which
badly needs to be fulfilled in Nova Roma) it is doing
extremely badly, despite having been filled by a
series of exemplary people. So contrary to your view,
I think we should consider very seriously the idea of
overhauling the censorship, restoring its historical
prestige and authority, making it less frequent (and
thus broadening the pool of candidates), and finding
some alternative way to do the very necessary
pen-pushing which the censors are quite the wrong
magistrates to do.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24779 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call for Candidates -- Censor Suffectus
A. Apollonius Cordus to his friend Domitius
Constantinus Fuscus, to Gn. Iulius Caesar, and to all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Two small contributions towards mutual understanding
and friendliness between you:

Caesar wrote:

> As to the laws group...I already am a member -
> unless its some
> select secret club you have formed. I am also a
> member of
> Continuum_NR as you are. You will recall that forum
> as the one where
> again you expended a large amount of energy
> denegrating the concept
> of the mos. The posts on that topic foundered after
> your "contribution". Very helpful I am sure.

Now, this is not very fair. Fuscus' contribution was a
reply to a post of mine which invited criticism of the
use of the phrase 'mos maiorum' in a certain context.
His comments were not criticisms of the mos maiorum
itself, but of its appropriateness in the context in
which I was proposing to use it, and they seemed to me
entirely constructive; moreover, they were similar to
views expressed by at least one other member of the
group who I know we both hold in considerable esteem.
And finally, the topic did not quite founder. It
simply came to my turn to post, and because I was busy
counting votes at the time I did not reply for a long
time. However, I did eventually reply, and the
discussion is still ambling along at a very gentle
pace - please do go and have a look, I'd welcome your
thoughts on my most recent message.

And Fuscus wrote:

> Iulius, are you really so obsessed with me that you
> have to name me 6 or 7
> times...

Ah, but in Roman culture to mention someone by name is
to do him an honour (see, for example, Cicero, pro
Roscio Comoedo, chapter something-or-other). Perhaps
Caesar, supporter as he is of the mos maiorum, was
writing within this tradition, and was in fact paying
you 6 or 7 compliments?

As for the wider issue between you, I think you both
know my views: I regard both law and custom as
important, I regret the disjuncture between the two
which Nova Roma currently suffers, and I believe that
the best solution is not to choose one over the other
but to bring the law into line with the mos while
thoughtfully and carefully expanding the mos with some
of the modern ideas which are currently inherent in
our laws. Think what we could achieve if the two of
you were working together to achieve that!





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24780 From: bsmith3121 Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Technical Question
I continue to have problems with hard bounces. How can I prevent
this? I have tried to do what Yahoo tells me to do, but have now had
the proble twice in the past two weeks. Can anyone help?

Caius Titinius Varus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24781 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> It's always healthy to have one's axioms challenged,
> so I hope you won't mind me challenging yours: Nova
> Roma doesn't need at least one functioning censor at
> all times.

Actually it does because the Constitution states that the Censors
are the Secretaries of Nova Roma, Inc, the non-profit. Therefore we
must have at least one functioning Censor at all times. The rest of
your posting, while I don't disagree with it in essence would
require a Constitutional Amendment to change the Censors from being
Secretaries of the Corporation to another role. Still Nova Roma
must have at least one Secretary of the Corporation to deal with all
the hassles of paperwork that the Censors currently deal with no
matter what that person(s) Roman title might be.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24782 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Gaius Modius Athanasius Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Strabo salutem dicit

The picture that you point of the Boni is very disturbing, to say the least. The fact that you, personally, have a problem with your ex-Pater Familias has nothing to do with the nature of the Boni. You somehow insinuate that the Boni is bad, and by that accusation also bad for Nova Roma. Would you please elaborate why you feel the Boni are somehow bad for Nova Roma, as that is what is implied by "This worries me as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights..."

I happen to be legally ordained clergy. I have conducted several weddings, and two funerals (one for a suicide and another for a bady who dies of SIDS). I have spent countless hours working with people who have sought me out for spiritual counseling and advice, into the wee hours of the night. I have gone out of my way to visit people who count of me in the hospital, and while I don't currently conduct a prison ministry I have made myself available if any reasonably close inmates need a priest.

Your accusation of the Boni being "un-empathetic" is both unfounded, and insulting. The Boni is much different now than it was when you were once a member. The number of Boni has more than doubled since that time, and we are growing. Why? Because there are people out there who truly respect the work that the Boni are doing.

Frankly, if I were a citizen I would be worried about a person like yourself. Someone who will accuse a whole group of people -- many of which have served Nova Roma diligently -- as somehow being unfit for office. Perhaps you should look at yourself Strabo. You resigned from office as Propraetor and Praetor, that says volumes to me, and it should to the voters. You left office because you could not accept your Oath of office, because a "newby" came on the list and started trouble that made you feel you had to choose between being Catholic and a Nova Roman Magistrate (at least that is how I understood your resignation letter).

Furthermore, you attack the Collegium Pontificum with the same vigor that you attack the Boni. The majority of the Collegium take being a Roman Reconstructionist serious. Why? Because as an orthopraxic faith, to do otherwise would make the Religio irrelevant.

The law is clear who CAN and who CANNOT run for Censor. I will vote and personally support someone who has experience in the upper leadership of Nova Roma already. Someone I feel who could do the job well. If someone with much less experience wants to run, they may be allowed under law but that doesn't mean I have to vote for them. Nor does it mean I have to endorse them.

Just because I am a Tribune, doesn't mean I am doormat. Especially to you, a Patrician who should mind her own business when it comes to tribunes. You don't need to remind me of my constitutional duties.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pompeia_minucia_tiberia@... writes:

> It would work out well for some, I am sure, because the vast majority
> of those who are experienced Censors are either in the Boni or a
> strict othodox member of the Collegium Pontificium. This worries me
> as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights/needs
> of 'all' citizens, not just conservatives or those who practise the
> Religio according to the models the CP currently has advocated in
> various rulings throughout the year. Yes, the Religio and the Mos are
> very important. But over and above these things, citizens of Nova
> Roma 'still' have rights in the Constitution which need to be
> addressed by Censors irrespective of a citizens' political and
> religious beliefs.
>
> So, when the circle of candidates is narrowed down to 'experienced
> censors', however unlawfully, by Conservatives/Boni and their
> sympathetics, I can see the political fruitfullness to some, but not
> all citizens of NR.
>
> I know you would want to present things on the ML from an entirely
> objective stance to your constituents, with due respect to the
> Constitution and prevailing legislation on the matter,
> Modius, being a
> Tribune, regardless of your personal preferences.
>
> Valete,
> Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24783 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Consular Edictum -- Appointment of Accensus
Gaius Modius Athanasius G. Eguitio Marinio saluten dicit

I agree. I have found Quintus Caecilius Postumianus to be a most articulate, and dedicated young man! I look forward to watching him grow and prosper in Nova Roma!

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/16/2004 3:03:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gawne@... writes:

> I know it's normally bad form to followup to one's own post, but for
> this I'll make an exception.
>
> > Quintus Caecilius Postumianus (formerly Spurius Postumius Tubertus) is
> > appointed accensus.
>
> This young man has been participating in Nova Roma for several years
> now. He has been active in the sodalites, and has participated as an
> accensus iunior in the work of last year's consul Caeso Fabius
> Quintillianus as well as in my consular cohort in the same capacity.
> Earlier this month, he attained his majority. I am pleased to finally
> be able to appoint him to the job he has already been performing so well.
>
> Congratulations Postumianus. You have honored me by your
> service and it
> is my pleasure to now name you Accensus.
>
> Valete Quirites,
>
> --
> Gn. Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24784 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Technical Question
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "bsmith3121" <bsmith3121@m...>
wrote:
> I continue to have problems with hard bounces. How can I prevent
> this? I have tried to do what Yahoo tells me to do, but have now
had
> the proble twice in the past two weeks. Can anyone help?
>
> Caius Titinius Varus

Salve,

From time to time I have that problem as well. A lot of spam is
generated using phoney Yahoo! addresses. If your anti-spam software
is like mine it blacklists the spammers domain once I've i.d.'d the
email as spam and then sends back a bounce message saying I don't
exist. The problem there is that Yahoo! can pick that up as your
email is bouncing and put your Yahoo! account into "stasis" until
you follow their instructions to reactivate it. If your anti-spam
software doesn't act like mine then there goes my pet theory as to
why Yahoo! every couple of weeks says I'm hard bouncing!

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24785 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Technical Question
Can you give a bit more specific info? What address are you emailing that is giving you the hard bounce? Can you send the error message you are receiving?

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: bsmith3121
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:27 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Technical Question


I continue to have problems with hard bounces. How can I prevent
this? I have tried to do what Yahoo tells me to do, but have now had
the proble twice in the past two weeks. Can anyone help?

Caius Titinius Varus


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24786 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-06-16
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Avete Omnes,

Po has a problem with Fabius. Po has serious problems with Diana. She had problems with Scaurus when he filed a lawsuit against her. She had problems with M. Octavius, and this list goes on and on. Now Po has a problem with me because I would not endorse both candidates for Praetor

Because I would not endorse her she switched Gentes, what kind of virtue is that? What kind of example is she showing to the masses of citizens? Especially given the political differences that have been shown between the Gens Fabia, yet you do not see them branching off at the first public disagreement.

Whatever her problem is it is something she is going to have to deal with it. Because after a while when you start having issues with so many different people it becomes apparent that maybe the problem is with her and not with the other individuals?

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Censor Suffectus


Gaius Modius Athanasius Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Strabo salutem dicit

The picture that you point of the Boni is very disturbing, to say the least. The fact that you, personally, have a problem with your ex-Pater Familias has nothing to do with the nature of the Boni. You somehow insinuate that the Boni is bad, and by that accusation also bad for Nova Roma. Would you please elaborate why you feel the Boni are somehow bad for Nova Roma, as that is what is implied by "This worries me as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights..."

I happen to be legally ordained clergy. I have conducted several weddings, and two funerals (one for a suicide and another for a bady who dies of SIDS). I have spent countless hours working with people who have sought me out for spiritual counseling and advice, into the wee hours of the night. I have gone out of my way to visit people who count of me in the hospital, and while I don't currently conduct a prison ministry I have made myself available if any reasonably close inmates need a priest.

Your accusation of the Boni being "un-empathetic" is both unfounded, and insulting. The Boni is much different now than it was when you were once a member. The number of Boni has more than doubled since that time, and we are growing. Why? Because there are people out there who truly respect the work that the Boni are doing.

Frankly, if I were a citizen I would be worried about a person like yourself. Someone who will accuse a whole group of people -- many of which have served Nova Roma diligently -- as somehow being unfit for office. Perhaps you should look at yourself Strabo. You resigned from office as Propraetor and Praetor, that says volumes to me, and it should to the voters. You left office because you could not accept your Oath of office, because a "newby" came on the list and started trouble that made you feel you had to choose between being Catholic and a Nova Roman Magistrate (at least that is how I understood your resignation letter).

Furthermore, you attack the Collegium Pontificum with the same vigor that you attack the Boni. The majority of the Collegium take being a Roman Reconstructionist serious. Why? Because as an orthopraxic faith, to do otherwise would make the Religio irrelevant.

The law is clear who CAN and who CANNOT run for Censor. I will vote and personally support someone who has experience in the upper leadership of Nova Roma already. Someone I feel who could do the job well. If someone with much less experience wants to run, they may be allowed under law but that doesn't mean I have to vote for them. Nor does it mean I have to endorse them.

Just because I am a Tribune, doesn't mean I am doormat. Especially to you, a Patrician who should mind her own business when it comes to tribunes. You don't need to remind me of my constitutional duties.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pompeia_minucia_tiberia@... writes:

> It would work out well for some, I am sure, because the vast majority
> of those who are experienced Censors are either in the Boni or a
> strict othodox member of the Collegium Pontificium. This worries me
> as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights/needs
> of 'all' citizens, not just conservatives or those who practise the
> Religio according to the models the CP currently has advocated in
> various rulings throughout the year. Yes, the Religio and the Mos are
> very important. But over and above these things, citizens of Nova
> Roma 'still' have rights in the Constitution which need to be
> addressed by Censors irrespective of a citizens' political and
> religious beliefs.
>
> So, when the circle of candidates is narrowed down to 'experienced
> censors', however unlawfully, by Conservatives/Boni and their
> sympathetics, I can see the political fruitfullness to some, but not
> all citizens of NR.
>
> I know you would want to present things on the ML from an entirely
> objective stance to your constituents, with due respect to the
> Constitution and prevailing legislation on the matter,
> Modius, being a
> Tribune, regardless of your personal preferences.
>
> Valete,
> Pompeia

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24787 From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: The Cursus Honorum and the Censores (was Re: FW: PLEASE NOTE: Call
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> the smallest amount of time left to
> fulfill the primary role of the historical censorship,
> which was to preserve the moral life of the nation.

Actually the concept that a Censor's primary duty was preserving
public morals is a modern concept.

A Roman Censor's primary duties were to conduct a Census, to update
the albums based mainly on the results of the Census though morality
could play a part in the decession of who would be listed as a Senator
or a Knight, and to grant public contracts on behalf of the state.

Preserving public morality was nothing more than an incendantal part
of one of the Censor's primary tasks, not the reason the office existed.

If Nova Roma were to persue an historic Censors office, then we would
elect two censors every 5 years if the Consuls thought we needed to
conduct a Census. They weren't always elected. The two Censors would
remain in office until they finished their tasks of Conducting a
Census, updating the albums, and placing contracts for services up for
bids. In Antiquita this normally took about 18 months but the time
could vary. In Nova Roma it shouldn't require more than 6 months at
the most.

The Lustrum would then end, and the office would remain vacant for at
least 4 years, ot longer if the Consuls didn't feel the need for a
Census when it came time to elect another pair.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24788 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: MAGNA MATER PROJECT BULLETIN JUNE 2757 A.U.C.
MAGNA MATER PROJECT BULLETIN JUNE 2757 A.U.C.

*******************************************************************************


I. HISTORICAL RESEARCH ON THE MAGNA MATER CULT AND TEMPLES

Drusilla Iulia Hibernia, Scriba to Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus,
has been busy researching information on the temples of the Magna Mater,
incluing the temple of the Palatine, upon which our Magna Mater project is
based. She offers us some interesting information in the article below.
Our thanks to Drusilla Iulia for lending her research and educational
efforts to this month's bulletin and to the Project in general:

Drusilla writes:

"The basement of the temples at Pessinus and at Vienne both have
characteristic side aisles and a central chamber, referred to as the
marriage chamber. Ostia, a much later temple, has a multi-vaulted podium.

Given the reported fracture lines over a metre in from the outer walls in
the foundation, it may be possible that the Palatine temple was similarily
constructed over side aisles and a central chamber. The fractures would
coincide with where the points side aisles would reach the back wall, and
would be due to the weight of the podium above being greater than that on
the outer walls currently, causing a small sinking of the inner walls of the
foundation (if any). The fractures are currently attributed to enlargement
from the Augustinian reconstruction; some consideration ought to be given to
the possibility that the Palatine temple is constructed with similar
foundations to the Vienne and Pessinus sites.

For many years, an account has been believed regarding the three foot stone
discovered by Monsignor Bianchini in 1730; he describes a deep brown
concical stone 3 ft. high, which was lost as he had no idea what it was.
Later archeologists believed it to be the stone brought from Phrygia.

A contemporary account of the stone, though, described it as follows: If
the histories tell the truth, and do not insert what is false in their
accounts of events, nothing else truly is said to have been brought from
Phrygia, sent by King Attalus, than a stone, not large, which could be
carried in a man's hand without any pressure--of a dusky and black
colour--not smooth, but having little corners standing out, and which today
we all see put in that image instead of a face, rough and unhewn, giving to
the figure a countenance by no means lifelike [Arnobius, Book Seven, Seven
Books Against the Heathens (adversus gentes)]

The life and spiritual philosophy of the Priestesses of Cybele is my current
undertaking. This task is made a bit more formidable by the lack of
existant materials in the form of original sources on Pagan monasticism. I
am getting some help with this from some Sisters of St. Benedict, who
pointed out to me that the administrative structure of their order, dating
to the 6th century, was far different than any later order. There has been
some speculation that Benedict, lacking any Christian model (none existed),
at least in part used Pagan models of monasticism (except for celebacy).
They also point out the hints and residues of Montanism in some of their
prayer and meditation. It is a starting point, anyway."

II. MAGNA MATER GENERAL PLAN

i. Official Website

Informa SCARL, the software company which will build the general structure
of the website, is quite ready to start. The developer presented us with a
detailed plan of the job. Once they begin (they are waiting for our 'go',
say, before the end of this month) they accomplish and test the database in
15-20 days. Informa will create a Content System Manager, able to insert
news with images and comments in two languages (two articles published on
two different pages), abstract with miniature on the homepage and detailed
and a full-length article in the same layout.

If we decide on different content or presentation, they could create a
different graphic for each style. The articles will be modified and removed
by a restricted administration plan. there will be a database for usernames
and passwords. Further information will be sent to us in the coming days.

With respect to the graphics and infrastructure, a structure will be
presented to Aedilis Perusianus later this week, at a meeting with Informa.
In any event, the website will be composed by a flash intro with double
access for English and Italian users. The general and informative pages
will be in HTML.

ii. Material to Promote This Project

..leaflets
..publications
..DVD
..a topographic introduction to the location, archeological remains and
evidence, history of the Sanctuary and the Cult of Cybele in
Rome...everything within multimedial means to present the ideas, progress
and the general and specific goals of the Magna Mater Project. This
includes, of course, information on how one might donate financially to the
Project itself.

iii. A 6-month scholarship for a student of the University of Rome (est.
about 6,000 Euros)

iv. Multimedia CD ROM
There are three viable options:

..a) simple CD of presentation of the Project (10-50 pictures, 5-20 text
pages 100-1000 copies)

..b) generic content CD (100-200 pictures, 25-70 text pages, music and audio
effects, 3D animations, more than 1000 copes)

..c) professional CD (cost would be higher than the above; pictures, some
with reserved rights, 2 or 3 experts in the multimedia field)


III. COHORS AEDILES WEBSITE

Please visit http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus

For information on how you could link up to this page and advertise this
project through your website, please contact the Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius
Perusianus at:

M_Iulius@...

Websites are wonderful, but there is nothing like face-to-face contact when
one is eager to promote a project such as the Magna Mater undertaking.
Recently, our Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus and Propraetor Italia
Manius Constantius Serapio joined some other citizens of Nova Roma in
attending the Festival Occidente, a cultural and reenactment event organized
by La Comagnia delle Armi e delle Arti, near Venice.

A lecture was organized for this event detailing the goals of the Magna
Mater Project. People were very interested and Nova Roma received
congratulations on the work we are doing. Indeed, there is much to be said
abut 'word of mouth' promotion.

For some pictures, please visit:

http:..novaroma.org/gallery/occidente/index.html


IV. UNIVERSITY AND SOPRINTENDENZA OF ROME COOPERATION

On Monday June 14, a meeting at the Soprintendenza Archeologica del Foro
Romano e Palatino, was held in Rome. Present at the meeting were D.ssa
Irene Iacope, head of the Soprintendenza and personnel from her staff.
Present from our staff were Propraetor Italia Manius Constantius Serapio,
Aedilis Curulis Marcus Iulius Perusianus, and Professor Franco Nicastro
(with two people from his organization). professor Nicastro is an
archaeologist and a collarborator inside Provincia Italia.

New scenerios for promoting the MM Project were explained to the staff of
the administrative organization, and we exchanged ideas for Step Two in the
General MM Plan.


V. FUNDRAISING

Magna Mater Project Quaestrix Diana Octavia Aventina reports a balance of
$1,324.92 USD as of May 31, 2757.

The Curule Aediles and their staff would like to extend sincere thanks to
those who have donated to this paramount project of Nova Roma to date. And
please remember, no donation is ever 'too small', and is much appreciated.
Please consider that you will be party to reviving a vital part of Roman
history, culture and spirituality with your support.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24789 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
---

Salvete Gaius Modius Tribune et Pontifex:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Gaius Modius Athanasius Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Strabo salutem dicit
>
> The picture that you point of the Boni is very disturbing, to say
the least.

Pompeia: Yes, I can appreciate your emotions in this regard, be they
a tad disproportional to what was actually stated.

The fact that you, personally, have a problem with your ex-Pater
Familias has nothing to do with the nature of the Boni.

Pompeia: I'm afraid I do not see your correlation here. What does
the general partisanship of an entire group, and several of you
disclosed yourselves last month, have anything to do with my
relationship with my former Paterfamilias? Now, who is drawing loose
conclusions...you, or I? I am addressing political and religious
partisanship, not zeroing in on one-on-one relationships to make a point.

Is this the best you can do? :)

You somehow insinuate that the Boni is bad, and by that accusation
also bad for Nova Roma. Would you please elaborate why you feel the
Boni are somehow bad for Nova Roma, as that is what is implied by
"This worries me as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with
the rights..."

Pompeia: I shall elaborate on NO such thing:) I did not call you
'bad'..now Modius, who am I to justify or unjustify anything in the
eyes of the divine, however we perceive such a supremecy? But I am
correct in addressing the Boni as being "partisan" to wit, "someone
who actively supports a party, cause or principle" (Webster's
Dictionary, Lexicon). To 'me' and of course this is my humble
opinion, a group who claims comradry with political and perhaps
religious reasons within their own membership, automatically has
exclusions to those not being part of the group.

Modi, maybe its just my cerebral dysfunction, but how on earth can one
be so much 'for' a group, and not have any exclusion to those outside
the group?

So let's not get extreme and say 'Po called us bad' when she
didn't...let's just say that Po is saying that a partisan candidate is
'less than ideal', when in reality, the scope of eligible candidates
if far greater than one might think; candidates who are not members of
a politically 'partisan' group with no defined mission statement.

Must I quote every single post where one conservative has endorsed
another on a rather consistent basis, even when one contradicts
himself? Modi, do you remember being 'disturbed' in Jan. 2004 by the
fact that Fr. Apulus Caesar was both Tribune and Senator, yet a month
or so previous you were endorsing L. Sicinius Drusus for Tribune, when
in fact, he was also a Senator?? It is either a bad thing or a good
thing, but Senators to be Tribunes, and vice versa, not 'bad' for one
man and 'good' for another. And we all know who endorsed who in the
December 2003 elections, and who cried sour grapes after the votes
were counted...goodness....hey, there's nothing wrong with liking one
another per se, is there???.....

And my goodness, I cannot say 'bad', or naughty or evil, any of those
things, after all, who am I?

I am quite willing to show the Praetors a few unsolicited private
emails that I've received from 'declared conservatives' criticizing me
for comments made on the ML (what happened to freedom of speech?), and
one post in particular 'suggesting' that I was on a mission to
'undermine' the Religio by suggesting that nonpractitioners not get
involved in the animal sacrifice debate? I had my opinion, but I
could no longer hold my tongue when Equitia Doris was called a 'jerk'
for expressing her opinion on animal sacrifice, which is against list
guidelines, and one would think, against the general drift of Roman
Virtue, but we'll worry about that some other time, I guess.

These items tend to disturb me, when I think of 'partisanship' and the
censorship...I am sorry if that upsets you. We are trying to build a
micronation, not a group of partisan cliques.


>
> I happen to be legally ordained clergy. I have conducted several
weddings, and two funerals (one for a suicide and another for a bady
who dies of SIDS). I have spent countless hours working with people
who have sought me out for spiritual counseling and advice, into the
wee hours of the night. I have gone out of my way to visit people who
count of me in the hospital, and while I don't currently conduct a
prison ministry I have made myself available if any reasonably close
inmates need a priest.

Pompeia: Ahh, Modius...'where' did I remotely imply that you had no
goodness, and that you were not capable of doing positive things?
Please reread my post. I am a Registered Nurse...in Ontario and
Michigan. I believe in Roy's theory of nursing. I 'too' try to see
health from a spiritual aspect as well. I do not recall one instance
where I have failed to deliver my best because someone didn't have the
same political or religious beliefs as myself. Such would be
unproductive fanaticism, a product neither you nor I want, right?
>
> Your accusation of the Boni being "un-empathetic" is both unfounded,
and insulting. The Boni is much different now than it was when you
were once a member. The number of Boni has more than doubled since
that time, and we are growing. Why? Because there are people out
there who truly respect the work that the Boni are doing.

Pompeia: Partisanship tends to lead to a lack of empathy for those
outside the group. This is a matter of sociological and psychological
findings, circles and sticks knowledge anyone can find on the web
through a search engine. If you are within a subgroup, you tend to
lose touch with the needs of those outside the group.

And, just what, if I might ask, is exactly encompassed by the "work
that the Boni are doing?" They have never come out with a formal
mission statement. Heck, they didn't even formally admit they
existed, short of some members disclosing themselves last month. Why
the big secret for so long, if you see yourselves as a boni fide group
within Nova Roma? There are several you know...Sodalitates and such.

I remember another formal party in Nova Roma in 2000-2001 called the
Amici Dignatis. But they had a formal mission statement, which they
published on the ML, upon announcing their formation.
>
> Frankly, if I were a citizen I would be worried about a person like
yourself.

Pompeia: Modi, I worry about myself too :), but not for the same
reasons you do.


Someone who will accuse a whole group of people -- many of which
have served Nova Roma diligently -- as somehow being unfit for office.

Pompeia: I cited apprehension regarding their objectivity. If you
choose to refer to it as 'unfit', that's your perrogative. People
have read my post, they can judge for themselves, and they will,
believe me.
As for me, I prefer to have a nonpartisan, objective individual as
Censor, and it is my perrogative to say such. I would expect that
this is what you would want as Tribune as well, but there again, I am
opining, within my right to do so.


Perhaps you should look at yourself Strabo.

Pompeia: I do, but with that one strabismic eye, it gets difficult :)
The condition is improving, however.


You resigned from office as Propraetor and Praetor, that says
volumes to me, and it should to the voters.

Pompeia: Pray continue....


You left office because you could not accept your Oath of office,
because a "newby" came on the list and started trouble that made you
feel you had to choose between being Catholic and a Nova Roman
Magistrate (at least that is how I understood your resignation letter).

Pompeia: Well, you are being rather defensive, so a comment like this
is expected; unfortunately it isn't entirely accurate, but you're mad,
and that's ok. No, I am still in NR, a Catholic and if the climate of
the time was to ignore list guidelines in favour of a podex who was
allowed to make levity of Wicca, Isis, Jesus, with no constitutional
recourse or redress from those of higher stations to protect those of
these faiths, the office of Praetor was a joke. I believe in
religious freedom Modius. The only religion I do not advocate is
religious bigotry. Nobody is that 'right' in my opinion.
>
> Furthermore, you attack the Collegium Pontificum with the same vigor
that you attack the Boni. The majority of the Collegium take being a
Roman Reconstructionist serious. Why? Because as an orthopraxic
faith, to do otherwise would make the Religio irrelevant.

Pompeia: You call it orthopraxy. I call it orthodoxy. The Collegium
Pontificium is not the equivalent to the Holy See and/or the College
of Cardinals. But that is how I view history, admittedly. You may do
as you wish, as a CP. However, I hesitate to recommend someone to
religious life under your rule, if they are going to be treated by the
same lack of due process as Fabia Vera...no warning, not much of a
procedure for hearing in that there was no advocacy, and no
counsel...sorry, but if some of you are politicians and you are
orthodox in your religious calls, I would expect one of these people
to be equally stringent in the capacity of Censor.

The Pontifices, Flamens etc. were teachers, leaders, facilitator of
the Religio in antiquita, but the Religio was so engrained into their
culture that there was never an 'us' vs. 'them' as far as clergy vs.
seculars...they did not have the Gods of Rome in their back
pocket...there was not license on the truth...just guidance and
facilitation. Why is it not the same in NR?
>
> The law is clear who CAN and who CANNOT run for Censor.

Pompeia: Yes. The Lex Vedia Cursus Honorum...its in the
tabularium...I am not requoting the link...you should know the general
content of the lex :)

I will vote and personally support someone who has experience in the
upper leadership of Nova Roma already. Someone I feel who could do
the job well. If someone with much less experience wants to run, they
may be allowed under law but that doesn't mean I have to vote for
them. Nor does it mean I have to endorse them.

Pompeia: Good for you! You certainly may make your decisions as your
conscience dictates. However, the law states that persons 'with less
experience' and perhaps equal capability are duly entitled to run
>
> Just because I am a Tribune, doesn't mean I am doormat. Especially
to you, a Patrician who should mind her own business when it comes to
tribunes. You don't need to remind me of my constitutional duties.

Pompeia: Modius, calm yourself. A doormat? No, I would not say that
about you. And as a Patrician I am entitled to recourse to you as
defender of the Constitution. Am I then supposed to mind my own business?

ROTFLMAO!!!

(do you know what that means?)

Also, you can bet that if I think the Plebs are being shortchanged by
legislation, however incidentally, this "Patrician" shall open her
mouth and say something, in the same manner as I am saying something
regarding who is and who is not qualified to run for Censor...because,
well, I guess I am just 'like that'.


Pompeia


>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y... writes:
>
> > It would work out well for some, I am sure, because the vast majority
> > of those who are experienced Censors are either in the Boni or a
> > strict othodox member of the Collegium Pontificium. This worries me
> > as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the rights/needs
> > of 'all' citizens, not just conservatives or those who practise the
> > Religio according to the models the CP currently has advocated in
> > various rulings throughout the year. Yes, the Religio and the Mos are
> > very important. But over and above these things, citizens of Nova
> > Roma 'still' have rights in the Constitution which need to be
> > addressed by Censors irrespective of a citizens' political and
> > religious beliefs.
> >
> > So, when the circle of candidates is narrowed down to 'experienced
> > censors', however unlawfully, by Conservatives/Boni and their
> > sympathetics, I can see the political fruitfullness to some, but not
> > all citizens of NR.
> >
> > I know you would want to present things on the ML from an entirely
> > objective stance to your constituents, with due respect to the
> > Constitution and prevailing legislation on the matter,
> > Modius, being a
> > Tribune, regardless of your personal preferences.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24790 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
---Lucius Cornelius Sulla:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> Po has a problem with Fabius.

Pompeia: Damned straight. Thanks for pointing that out. His
behaviour this year has been reprehensible. I don't know him anymore,
sadly. And I have been honest about my beefs on this list, honestly
and head on. As for any issues prior to this year, I do believe I
have had the intestinal fortitude to discuss them with him head on.
Now mind you, if there is anything I have missed, I am sure you can
find something in your archives. Have him write to me privately
regarding any lingering issues, and I shall answer him, how's that?
Unless you want to splatter private conversations on the ML, but as a
candidate for 'guardian of public morality' I would venture to say
such is not advisable. Hundreds of people read this list, and I
wouldn't count on them all being 'in your camp'.

Po has serious problems with Diana.

Pompeia: Again, you are too kind. Diana' performance as Tribune,
well, yes I certainly have ethical and moral issues with...her
legislation regarding the Tribunes having to take auspices shows a
shameful lack of research into the powers of the Tribunes, giving what
out the republic has from the hands of the CP, right back to them, on
a plate.

From a personal point of view, she spouted off rather irresponsibly in
the Back Alley in July 2003, regarding the state of my mental health,
and implied that 'she had no idea' why notes were being crosscopied to
the Senate by me. Well, they were being crosscopied to the Tribunes
too...it was about the petitio actione Scaurus initiated against
me...so she 'did' know, and chose to misrepresent the truth. When I
questioned her about it, she stated that she was 'speak
abstentio'...we'll you are never 'abstentio' from your oath of office
as long as your hold the magistracy..you are required to maintain
confidentiality at least....she failed to do this. I have the posts
saved to file with the headers.

Further, I am not sure what the rant of 23383 was based on: a dream,
delusions, or just calculated mistruth. She stated to her
paterfamilias, 'the too numerous to count visious emails that she
posted to me were all just a terrible misunderstanding'....

The truth is, and I welcome her to prove otherwise, is that I have not
written the woman privately since Dec. 2002. Any posts that I wrote
her after this point were ex officium via 'tribunes @ Nova Roma.org'

Next.....

She had problems with Scaurus when he filed a lawsuit against her.

Pompeia: At this point, after appraising his behaviour, his foul
language, the fact that he called me a 'mad woman', I think the whole
litigation is quite amusing...like the pot calling the kettle black.
And that does not mean to say that I am not truly sorry for upsetting
the populace and for insulting the Pontifex Maximus in his official
capacity.

Also, the petitio had several errors, charging me with things I did
not say, like calling Consul Fabius Quintillianus a fascist. Being a
Swede, he seems quite adept at reading English as a second
language...and one poster worries about him being able to show a
Censor Suffectus the ropes? Also, there were errors in the procedure
itself.

Coupled with the fact that Diana, Tribune of the Plebs sullied my
chances for a fair trial by misconveying facts to potential jurors...I
don't care if it was the Back Alley or not...they were my potential
jurors...it made for a rather legally ragged scenerio.




She had problems with M. Octavius,

Pompeia: Yes, we did, and we made up. One would think you would be
happy. Why aren't you? Is it possible that I became privy to certain
information too late? I can see where we were both in awkward
political situations...we have decided that there isn't a damned thing
either one of us can do about it, and we are taking it from there and
picking up where we left off.

and this list goes on and on.

Pompeia: Oh, it does? Pray, tell me...or is this some idle remark I
said somewhere in private? But wait, this is the very thing you
criticized me for on May 18 post "The Praetoral Elections"


Now Po has a problem with me because I would not endorse both
candidates for Praetor

Pompeia: No, noooo, I have a problem with Paterfamilias who accuse
their filiae of lying to them....oh, perhaps I misunderstood your
instructions regarding 'not' telling the Senate Diana was in the
Boni...shhhhhh....sorry, but when have I deliberately 'lied' to
you...when......when????

"THAT" is where I draw the line. I could care less if your
endorsement was for Laneus, and I think he was a great Quaestor...but
that is not why I left...you lied about me, you defamed my character
to nearly 900 people. Consequently, I will no longer respect your
potestas.

And I was quite vocal earlier in the year, and when I was Praetor
about those paters (especially those who were Religio practitioners)
to have potestas over their gens, with respect to any parameters of
successive familiae eminating from said gens...in those who are quick
to criticize me for being somehow a bucket of water on the flame of
the Religio, my behaviour is rather strange, wouldn't you say?

Nobody remembered this from the CP and the Boni last month, I notice
:) No matter.


But I never said that Paters could abuse and lie. To do such is to
hold a very superficial view of being a paterfamilias....so shallow I
will not respect it. Nor should anyone else.
>
> Because I would not endorse her she switched Gentes, what kind of
virtue is that? What kind of example is she showing to the masses of
citizens? Especially given the political differences that have been
shown between the Gens Fabia, yet you do not see them branching off at
the first public disagreement.

Pompeia: See above. And I am not sure what Gens Fabia has to do with
all of this. I do not see QFM or CFM logging on to the ML and
misrepresenting truth about their filiae for what??? Political
reasons? So no, I guess they don't have those kinds of problems and
they are not leaving.
>
> Whatever her problem is it is something she is going to have to deal
with it. Because after a while when you start having issues with so
many different people it becomes apparent that maybe the problem is
with her and not with the other individuals?

Pompeia: So...what issues, what other people, and how do you suggest
that I deal with all the problems you perceive I have??? I await your
response with bated breath.......**************and while we're at it.....

O Candidate for Guardian of Public Morality...

You are so good at cleaning out my dirty closet...let us examine your own:

REPRIMAND OF LUCIUS CORNELIUS SULLA

Http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/1999-03-03-i.html

It becomes clear to me that you have not grown up, as I thought you
have, judging by your posts this year.....you are very good at
dredging up all you can about others, but fail to remember your own
iniquities.

Also, look at a couple of other links:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html
http://www.novarma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-ii.html

The above are Leges Saliciae..if you make a career of pursuing the
defamation of another's character, even if they are not in the Boni :)
you may be held accountable, and I think you should familiarize
yourself with this legislation, if you are to indeed guard the public
morality.

Also, macronational law is honing close to cyberspace...electronic
communication's 'free ride' is soon to demand its toll.

Pompeia




>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AthanasiosofSpfd@a...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Censor Suffectus
>
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Strabo salutem
dicit
>
> The picture that you point of the Boni is very disturbing, to say
the least. The fact that you, personally, have a problem with your
ex-Pater Familias has nothing to do with the nature of the Boni. You
somehow insinuate that the Boni is bad, and by that accusation also
bad for Nova Roma. Would you please elaborate why you feel the Boni
are somehow bad for Nova Roma, as that is what is implied by "This
worries me as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the
rights..."
>
> I happen to be legally ordained clergy. I have conducted several
weddings, and two funerals (one for a suicide and another for a bady
who dies of SIDS). I have spent countless hours working with people
who have sought me out for spiritual counseling and advice, into the
wee hours of the night. I have gone out of my way to visit people who
count of me in the hospital, and while I don't currently conduct a
prison ministry I have made myself available if any reasonably close
inmates need a priest.
>
> Your accusation of the Boni being "un-empathetic" is both
unfounded, and insulting. The Boni is much different now than it was
when you were once a member. The number of Boni has more than doubled
since that time, and we are growing. Why? Because there are people
out there who truly respect the work that the Boni are doing.
>
> Frankly, if I were a citizen I would be worried about a person
like yourself. Someone who will accuse a whole group of people --
many of which have served Nova Roma diligently -- as somehow being
unfit for office. Perhaps you should look at yourself Strabo. You
resigned from office as Propraetor and Praetor, that says volumes to
me, and it should to the voters. You left office because you could
not accept your Oath of office, because a "newby" came on the list and
started trouble that made you feel you had to choose between being
Catholic and a Nova Roman Magistrate (at least that is how I
understood your resignation letter).
>
> Furthermore, you attack the Collegium Pontificum with the same
vigor that you attack the Boni. The majority of the Collegium take
being a Roman Reconstructionist serious. Why? Because as an
orthopraxic faith, to do otherwise would make the Religio irrelevant.
>
> The law is clear who CAN and who CANNOT run for Censor. I will
vote and personally support someone who has experience in the upper
leadership of Nova Roma already. Someone I feel who could do the job
well. If someone with much less experience wants to run, they may be
allowed under law but that doesn't mean I have to vote for them. Nor
does it mean I have to endorse them.
>
> Just because I am a Tribune, doesn't mean I am doormat.
Especially to you, a Patrician who should mind her own business when
it comes to tribunes. You don't need to remind me of my
constitutional duties.
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:45:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y... writes:
>
> > It would work out well for some, I am sure, because the vast
majority
> > of those who are experienced Censors are either in the Boni or a
> > strict othodox member of the Collegium Pontificium. This worries me
> > as far as objectivity in being able to empathize with the
rights/needs
> > of 'all' citizens, not just conservatives or those who practise the
> > Religio according to the models the CP currently has advocated in
> > various rulings throughout the year. Yes, the Religio and the
Mos are
> > very important. But over and above these things, citizens of Nova
> > Roma 'still' have rights in the Constitution which need to be
> > addressed by Censors irrespective of a citizens' political and
> > religious beliefs.
> >
> > So, when the circle of candidates is narrowed down to 'experienced
> > censors', however unlawfully, by Conservatives/Boni and their
> > sympathetics, I can see the political fruitfullness to some, but not
> > all citizens of NR.
> >
> > I know you would want to present things on the ML from an entirely
> > objective stance to your constituents, with due respect to the
> > Constitution and prevailing legislation on the matter,
> > Modius, being a
> > Tribune, regardless of your personal preferences.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Pompeia
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24791 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus
Gaius Modius Athanasius Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Strabo salutem dicit

I am honored that you took all the time necessary to write such a long response to me. However, I only care to address the following points:

1. But I am correct in addressing the Boni as being "partisan" to wit, "someone
who actively supports a party, cause or principle" (Webster's Dictionary, Lexicon).

Modius: At least the Boni give our group of people a name, and several of our members are publically identified. To claim there is no other such political "faction" in Nova Roma is a silly claim, because it is not true. There is clearly a group of magistrates who maintain opposition to the Boni, and they do everything they can to oppose the Boni...including convincing you to run for Praetor.

I have found the members of the Boni to be GOOD men and women. To be strong supporters of Nova Roma.

2. Modi, maybe its just my cerebral dysfunction, but how on earth can one
be so much 'for' a group, and not have any exclusion to those outside
the group?

Modius: Well, most of the people in Gens Modia are not in the Boni yet I don't view them as "opposition." For that matter, most of the people in Lacus Magni are not in the Boni but I don't see them as "opposition." You, Po, I do see as opposition. You attack the Boni any opportunity you can. But the average citizen, no there is no opposition to them. In fact it is "factions" like the Boni that will make Nova Roma a BETTER place for the citizens of Nova Roma. We, the Boni, exist BECAUSE of a need to serve and better our Republic. The fact that many of our members are senators, magistrates, and pontifices says a lot about the character and make-up of the Boni. We are a group of people who have dedicated A LOT to Nova Roma. Not that others have not, those in the Boni have simply chosen to work together for the BETTER of Nova Roma.

3. Modi, do you remember being 'disturbed' in Jan. 2004 by the
fact that Fr. Apulus Caesar was both Tribune and Senator, yet a month
or so previous you were endorsing L. Sicinius Drusus for Tribune, when
in fact, he was also a Senator??

Modius: I don't recall issuing an endorsement of Drusus. What was the number of the e-mail that I used to endorese him?

4. Partisanship tends to lead to a lack of empathy for those
outside the group.

Modius: Not when the group was founded to protect the fiber of the Republic that protects the long-term future of everyone in Republic. You seem to think the Boni intends to create its own little Nova Roma Empire. Simply untrue. The Boni stand to help preserve the Republic, and to build it up.

5. As for me, I prefer to have a nonpartisan, objective individual as
Censor, and it is my perrogative to say such. I would expect that
this is what you would want as Tribune as well, but there again, I am
opining, within my right to do so.

Modius: You can tell the people of Nova Roma this, but most people who have been around for awhile know you are a political personal and that you have found a side that will "take you in." Great, I am glad you found a home. But you are not nonpartisan by any means. You are part of the Anti-Boni faction.

6. You call it orthopraxy. I call it orthodoxy.

Modius:

You can call it whatever you wish. However, the Religio Romana is an orthopraxic faith. Your constant jabs against the Collegium Pontificum and your attitude towards the Religio, however subtle, coupled with the fact that you could not honor your oath (since it conflicted with your beliefs) really disturbs me.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24792 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: ante diem XV Kalendae Quinctilis
G. Iulius Scaurus S. P. D.

Salvete, Quirites.

Today is ante diem XV Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

Tomorrow is ante diem XIV Kalendae Quinctilis; the day is comitialis.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Flamen Quirinalis et Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24793 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: Censor Suffectus Position
Salve Sulla,

I think it is great that you are offering to step in and help out as Censor. I know that Caeso
Fabius is capable of training a new Censor, but I truly believe that it would make his life a heck
of a lot easier if he had a co-Censor who was already very experienced and could even possible
give him advice.

Good luck with the election (in the event that someone else declares).

Vale,
Diana Octavia

---------------------------------
Avete Citizens of Nova Roma,

Recently the Censor's office has become vacant and today it is my honor to offer my services to
the Republic for the remainder of the term in office. I believe that I am one of the best
candidates to hold the office and with the vacancy I believe my prior experience will be
beneficial. I know that I have a long and varied history in NR, being the first Nova Roman to
complete the Cursus Honorum, but this post will just focus on my abilities to complete the
remaining term as Censor.

I was created the first Censor handbook, which is still available online at
http://home.earthlink.net/~alexious. I was the first censor to complete a full term in office. I
was always prompt when in response to emails and have tried to do the best I could to make sure
that all inquires were answered in a timely manner. I was able to be online for at least 4+ hours
day, and today that has even increased since my last tenure as Censor.

It is my belief that I will be an asset to the Republic as Censor and will do my best to work with
the existing Censor.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Senator
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
Lictor
Censor 2000-2001
Consul 2002 & 1999
Praetor 1999
Proconsul of California 2000-2001
Quaestor 1998
Various Scribe, Accenssus, and Sodalitas positions

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24794 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Lost E-mail
Salve Romans


I have not been receiving my NR e-mail for over a week ( since June 10) because of bouncing e-mail?????. I am getting it now.

I have started to read the yahoo lists that I am a member of but if anybody sent be something privately please send it again.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 24795 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2004-06-17
Subject: Re: That Crazy Ole Mos Maiorum
G. Iulius Scaurus G. Equitio Catoni salutem dicit.

Salve, Cato.

>SINCE NR HAS ALREADY "ADAPTED" THE "MOS MAIORUM" IN MANY WAYS (i.e.,
>women's rights, slavery, use of English rather than Latin, etc.) TO
>THE 28th CENTURY, WHO DECIDES HOW IT IS TO BE ADAPTED IN THE FUTURE,
>AND BY WHAT MECHANISM? <--- not shouting, only emphasizing
>

This is the single most powerful argument I have ever seen presented for
not yielding a single inch further in compromise with modernity. I have
always mistrusted the claims of the modernists that they were only
tweaking Roman principles around the edges to make Nova Roma possible in
the modern world. It is refreshing to see an open admission that the
intention is to strip the bones until the only resemblance the carcass
has to the original is the name. I don't mean this as an insult; I am
genuinely puzzled: if you wish to recreate so little of Roman antiquity
that everything is up for grabs, why even bother talking about being Roman?

Vale.

Scaurus


>
>