>
> That's it Diana. You've been warned. You're now on moderation for the
> next seven days.
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Diana Octavia Aventina wrote:
>
> > Domitius Constantinus Fuscus wrote:
> >
> > <You know, saying what Diana said is contemptable
> >
> > Who me? You must mean Pompeia. I found it absolutely deplorable that she publicly declared to
> be a
> > passionate suck. LOL! So get your names straight hun, blame the source! LOL!
> >
> > <A secerdos, mind you, who maybe should have a
> > <slightly higher, not way lower, standard than others,
> >
> > Poor guy, for your sake I hope that you don't throw around that line when you are trying to
> pick
> > up a babe...
> >
> > Here, let the Priestess of Venus educate you grasshopper: Sex is not a dirty thing but
> something
> > quite natural. This may come as a shock to you (sit down), but everyone here in this forum,
> > including you, is a result of sex.... and odds are that there was a passionate suck or two
> > involved in the act.
> >
> >
> >>public sexual innuendos
> >
> >
> > LOL! You should talk! Everytime I see your name, I think that it says Fucs-us
> >
> > < offensive towads a note civis...
> > Ho Ho Ho, I won't even touch that one!
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> To whom does one complain to about Praetores/Consules
> Marinus action against me since everyone
> else quit and the senate@... list is shut down?

> To whom does one complain to about Praetores/Consules Marinus

> else quit and the senate@n... list is shut down?

----- Original Message -----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizens leaving


F. Galerius Aurelianus Gn. Equitio Marino. Salve.

Actually, that is not such a bad idea but it needs to be considered in
conjunction with removing many of the old, superfluous laws from our tabularium. I
would take it a step farther and suggest that anyone who wanted to create a
new gens or activate an inactive one would have to pay their assidui tax and
also a $25.00 fee (or its reduced equivalent in other countries) before they
could do so. This would commit the new mater/paterfamilias to improving the
status quo in Nova Roma.

I would also like to see all the applicants for flamen and the other sacred
offices have a probationary period during which they would have to post a set
number of public rituals or festivals to their Diety and contribute some
information (with documentation) to the Religio section of the main site. Of
course, this is just an opinion since I am not a member of the Sacred Colleges; only
a private practitioner of the Religio.

Vale.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve,
> I joined because I am a pagen and i like Roma. I just came back

> Iraq and the same tiresome agruments are still going on as when I
> left. Dosen't antone read the Nova Roma website or do all that
> partake of these arguments think that it is fluff.
> Vale,
> Lucius Martianius Paullus
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus

> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salvete Senator Druse et omnes,
> >
> > Your idea of a citizenship test and a graduated probationary

> > is a good idea that has crossed my mind as well as others before.
> > Any test or exam over the internet would have to be open book

> > of course so you would think that if one was not ambitious

> to
> > hit the encyclopedias or internet sites to find the answers,

> > dedication to Rome would be certainly questionable.
> >
> > Now I'm sure that an implementation of this type of system would
> > certainly not bring massive hordes kicking down the gates of Res
> > Republica to become citizens but the few we would get over time
> > might prove to be of better quality and more dedicated to Nova

> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
> > <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > > Salve Consul,
> > >
> > > I Proposed something very similar to this over two years ago
> before
> > > the Socii were created.
> > >
> > > My proposal was that a Socii class be established as an

> > > membership in Nova Roma, one that would have no voting rights

> > > would have the right to take part in activites, and which

> > have
> > > either a reduced or no tax liability.
> > >
> > > This would be the entry point for joining Nova Roma, after 6
> > months as
> > > a Socius you would be eligible to take a citizenship exam

> you
> > > would have to show some minimal knowledge of Roman History &
> > > Government along with Nova Roman Government.
> > >
> > > You would have the option of retaining Socii status if you
> prefered
> > > that to full citizenship as I'm sure some would.
> > >
> > > I Realize that the idea of a citizenship exam is ahistoric,

> > > would over time give us a citizen base that knew more about

> > which
> > > would make Nova Roma operate in a more historic manner. It

> > make
> > > the Socii class one that contianed people who were active in

> > way
> > > instead of just being a storage area for former members.
> > >
> > > It would also give the new Socius a chance to meet people from
> > > assorted Gens so when he did select which Gens he wished to

> it
> > > wouldn't be a matter of luck if the Gens was one that he fit

> > >
> > > Of Course existing Nova Romans would be grandfathered as

> > > though I think it would be desirable to let them opt for the

> > > class if they prefered a reduced tax liability to being able

> > vote.
> > >
> > > L. Sicinius Drusus

> Salve,
> I joined because I am a pagen and i like Roma. I just came back

> Iraq and the same tiresome agruments are still going on as when I
> left. Dosen't antone read the Nova Roma website or do all that
> partake of these arguments think that it is fluff.
> Vale,
> Lucius Martianius Paullus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus L. Cornelio Sulla Felix. Salve.
>
> I agree with you. Every member of the Sacred Collegium should be
assidui and
> should be active in increasing our knowledge of the Religio with
articles,
> contributions to the main RR site, public rites, and spreading the
Religio by
> teaching and holding rituals at pagan festivals. Of course,
everyone who
> believes should also practice the household rites and keep a
lararium. I strongly
> recommend that for those wanting more information, to get in
correspondence
> with Modius Athanasios, Scaurus, Diana Octavia, L. Equitius, and our
other
> leading flamens, pontiffs, and augurs.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salve Consul,
>
> I Proposed something very similar to this over two years ago before
> the Socii were created.
>
> My proposal was that a Socii class be established as an associate
> membership in Nova Roma, one that would have no voting rights but
> would have the right to take part in activites, and which would have
> either a reduced or no tax liability.
>
> This would be the entry point for joining Nova Roma, after 6 months as
> a Socius you would be eligible to take a citizenship exam where you
> would have to show some minimal knowledge of Roman History &
> Government along with Nova Roman Government.
>
> You would have the option of retaining Socii status if you prefered
> that to full citizenship as I'm sure some would.
>
> I Realize that the idea of a citizenship exam is ahistoric, but it
> would over time give us a citizen base that knew more about Roma which
> would make Nova Roma operate in a more historic manner. It would make
> the Socii class one that contianed people who were active in some way
> instead of just being a storage area for former members.
>
> It would also give the new Socius a chance to meet people from
> assorted Gens so when he did select which Gens he wished to join it
> wouldn't be a matter of luck if the Gens was one that he fit into.
>
> Of Course existing Nova Romans would be grandfathered as citizens,
> though I think it would be desirable to let them opt for the Socii
> class if they prefered a reduced tax liability to being able to vote.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites, et salve Luci Sicini,
> >
> > Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >
> > > As long as becoming a citizen dosen't require any more effort than
> > > filling out a web form and having the luck to select a Gens that is
> > > good about approving people we will continue to have a lot of
> > > "butterfly" citizens who flutter in for a short time and then flutter
> > > off somewhere else.
> >
> > So let's do something about that. How much support do you think
> there'd
> > be for requiring some probationary period for new members before they
> > were granted their full citizenship? Perhaps 90 days for the new
> person
> > to study Nova Roma after they'd first applied for citizenship, after
> > which they'd be eligible to take some fairly simple citizenship test?
> >
> > We'd have to 'grandfather' all of our current citizens in, since
> > otherwise it would be an ex post facto law. But we could certainly
> > encourage all current citizens to take the test voluntarily.
> >
> > Valete Quirites,
> >
> > -- Marinus

>So, I do not understand how it goes: other religions are welcomed but their
>moral codes and ethics can be publically slandered? And again, it was Drusus,
>another pontifex, to start talking about religious moral codes, when the
>discussion was about the role of teh Censores in the qntiquity, based on quotes
>from classic writers.
>
>Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
>PF Constantinia
>Aedilis Urbis

>Ave
>
>I guess the people who are complaining about sexual innuendos would be actually shocked to death if they visited Pompeii and saw the phallic statues, good luck phallus's, and pictures of sexual positions in brothels that were done in public, let alone the massive amounts of Roman Graffiti.
>
>Vale,
>
>Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "flaviascholastica" <flavia@l...> wrote:
> Flavia Quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit.
>
> I find myself in the strange position of actually agreeing with
Drusus that a probationary
> period for new citizens might be a good idea. Many citzens do seem
to stick around for
> a month or two, then disappear, thus creating a rather high "churn
rate."
>
> However, Druse, you have forgotten a little something regarding any
possible
> examination for the privilege of Nova Roman citizenship--it's called
"Latin." (possibly
> you've heard of it? It's VERY Roman, quite in keeping with the Mos
Maiorum). According
> to the Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis, Latin is an official
language of Nova Roma.
> Should we not include some knowledge of Latin (particularly
composition) for
> citizenship? That would surely keep the riff-raff out. (LOL!)
Perhaps we could even have
> gradations of competency--higher magistrates would have to be able
to translate, say, a
> nice consular tax edict into Latin ;-) (no need to be elegant;
workmanlike will do),
> whereas lesser magistrates would have to be able to translate
something much easier,
> say an appointment edict, and ordinary citizens merely be able to
handle simple
> sentences. I am aware of at least half a dozen citizens who could
pass this test at the
> highest level; we would, of course, grandfather in existing
magistrates. . .
>
> Lingua firmly planted in bucca. . .for I happen to have a rather
good sense of humor, as
> well as a good one regarding certain other issues.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> Flavia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> > Salve Consul,
> >
> > I Proposed something very similar to this over two years ago before
> > the Socii were created.
> >
> > My proposal was that a Socii class be established as an associate
> > membership in Nova Roma, one that would have no voting rights but
> > would have the right to take part in activites, and which would have
> > either a reduced or no tax liability.
> >
> > This would be the entry point for joining Nova Roma, after 6 months as
> > a Socius you would be eligible to take a citizenship exam where you
> > would have to show some minimal knowledge of Roman History &
> > Government along with Nova Roman Government.
> >
> > You would have the option of retaining Socii status if you prefered
> > that to full citizenship as I'm sure some would.
> >
> > I Realize that the idea of a citizenship exam is ahistoric, but it
> > would over time give us a citizen base that knew more about Roma which
> > would make Nova Roma operate in a more historic manner. It would make
> > the Socii class one that contianed people who were active in some way
> > instead of just being a storage area for former members.
> >
> > It would also give the new Socius a chance to meet people from
> > assorted Gens so when he did select which Gens he wished to join it
> > wouldn't be a matter of luck if the Gens was one that he fit into.
> >
> > Of Course existing Nova Romans would be grandfathered as citizens,
> > though I think it would be desirable to let them opt for the Socii
> > class if they prefered a reduced tax liability to being able to vote.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete Quirites, et salve Luci Sicini,
> > >
> > > Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > >
> > > > As long as becoming a citizen dosen't require any more effort than
> > > > filling out a web form and having the luck to select a Gens
that is
> > > > good about approving people we will continue to have a lot of
> > > > "butterfly" citizens who flutter in for a short time and then
flutter
> > > > off somewhere else.
> > >
> > > So let's do something about that. How much support do you think
> > there'd
> > > be for requiring some probationary period for new members before
they
> > > were granted their full citizenship? Perhaps 90 days for the new
> > person
> > > to study Nova Roma after they'd first applied for citizenship,
after
> > > which they'd be eligible to take some fairly simple citizenship
test?
> > >
> > > We'd have to 'grandfather' all of our current citizens in, since
> > > otherwise it would be an ex post facto law. But we could certainly
> > > encourage all current citizens to take the test voluntarily.
> > >
> > > Valete Quirites,
> > >
> > > -- Marinus

----- Original Message -----
From: AthanasiosofSpfd@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dignitas!


Sulla;

Hey! That graffiti is from Imperial times and not the Republic and it was by low class citizens in brothels...or something like that from what I'm told.

I also heard that Romans during the Republic only has sex for procreation and...

Oh, nevermind. I had a momentary loss of sanity. :)

</sarcasm>

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 7/8/2004 11:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@...> writes:

>Ave
>
>I guess the people who are complaining about sexual innuendos would be actually shocked to death if they visited Pompeii and saw the phallic statues, good luck phallus's, and pictures of sexual positions in brothels that were done in public, let alone the massive amounts of Roman Graffiti.
>
>Vale,
>
>Sulla


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizens leaving


Ave,

Hmm Language policy... Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis... hmmm.

That sounds familiar, I've heard that somewhere before...

Oh I Got It!!!!

I Wrote it!

;-)

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "flaviascholastica" <flavia@l...> wrote:
> Flavia Quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit.
>
> I find myself in the strange position of actually agreeing with
Drusus that a probationary
> period for new citizens might be a good idea. Many citzens do seem
to stick around for
> a month or two, then disappear, thus creating a rather high "churn
rate."
>
> However, Druse, you have forgotten a little something regarding any
possible
> examination for the privilege of Nova Roman citizenship--it's called
"Latin." (possibly
> you've heard of it? It's VERY Roman, quite in keeping with the Mos
Maiorum). According
> to the Lex Cornelia de Linguis Publicis, Latin is an official
language of Nova Roma.
> Should we not include some knowledge of Latin (particularly
composition) for
> citizenship? That would surely keep the riff-raff out. (LOL!)
Perhaps we could even have
> gradations of competency--higher magistrates would have to be able
to translate, say, a
> nice consular tax edict into Latin ;-) (no need to be elegant;
workmanlike will do),
> whereas lesser magistrates would have to be able to translate
something much easier,
> say an appointment edict, and ordinary citizens merely be able to
handle simple
> sentences. I am aware of at least half a dozen citizens who could
pass this test at the
> highest level; we would, of course, grandfather in existing
magistrates. . .
>
> Lingua firmly planted in bucca. . .for I happen to have a rather
good sense of humor, as
> well as a good one regarding certain other issues.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> Flavia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus"
<drusus@b...> wrote:
> > Salve Consul,
> >
> > I Proposed something very similar to this over two years ago before
> > the Socii were created.
> >
> > My proposal was that a Socii class be established as an associate
> > membership in Nova Roma, one that would have no voting rights but
> > would have the right to take part in activites, and which would have
> > either a reduced or no tax liability.
> >
> > This would be the entry point for joining Nova Roma, after 6 months as
> > a Socius you would be eligible to take a citizenship exam where you
> > would have to show some minimal knowledge of Roman History &
> > Government along with Nova Roman Government.
> >
> > You would have the option of retaining Socii status if you prefered
> > that to full citizenship as I'm sure some would.
> >
> > I Realize that the idea of a citizenship exam is ahistoric, but it
> > would over time give us a citizen base that knew more about Roma which
> > would make Nova Roma operate in a more historic manner. It would make
> > the Socii class one that contianed people who were active in some way
> > instead of just being a storage area for former members.
> >
> > It would also give the new Socius a chance to meet people from
> > assorted Gens so when he did select which Gens he wished to join it
> > wouldn't be a matter of luck if the Gens was one that he fit into.
> >
> > Of Course existing Nova Romans would be grandfathered as citizens,
> > though I think it would be desirable to let them opt for the Socii
> > class if they prefered a reduced tax liability to being able to vote.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete Quirites, et salve Luci Sicini,
> > >
> > > Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > >
> > > > As long as becoming a citizen dosen't require any more effort than
> > > > filling out a web form and having the luck to select a Gens
that is
> > > > good about approving people we will continue to have a lot of
> > > > "butterfly" citizens who flutter in for a short time and then
flutter
> > > > off somewhere else.
> > >
> > > So let's do something about that. How much support do you think
> > there'd
> > > be for requiring some probationary period for new members before
they
> > > were granted their full citizenship? Perhaps 90 days for the new
> > person
> > > to study Nova Roma after they'd first applied for citizenship,
after
> > > which they'd be eligible to take some fairly simple citizenship
test?
> > >
> > > We'd have to 'grandfather' all of our current citizens in, since
> > > otherwise it would be an ex post facto law. But we could certainly
> > > encourage all current citizens to take the test voluntarily.
> > >
> > > Valete Quirites,
> > >
> > > -- Marinus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.
>
> I would like to raise a moderating viewpoint here over some of the
actions
> that have been going on the ML and some of the associated lists.
The Republic
> is currently in poor shape. We are a small village of 100 or so
active, voting
> citizens; 200 assidui, and an unknown number of citizens and socii
who have
> lost interest in Nova Roma to the point that they didn't even
bother to resign
> but just dropped out of sight. We are beginning to suffer the
fate of an old
> apple tree that is so choked with dead wood and weak branches that
not much
> fruit is being produced anymore.
>...
> I would definitely like to see some more positive strides in the
direction of
> getting our active citizenry more involved and our inactive
citizens more
> involved. I disagree that our number of laws is at the core of
the problem and
> believe it has more to do with the negative tone of many of our
posts.

Ohhhh... you had me until that very last sentence. Your evaluation
is on the whole correct, but your solution misses the mark, I fear.

Is the health of our Republic really to be measured by the tone
people take in a few emails? Are we really nothing more than an
email list and a website? Is that really all we aspire to?

I've expressed my own thought on this subject and shall do so again,
with all due thanks to F Galerius Aurelianus for setting the subject
up for me.

The problem with Nova Roma is not that our email list is too raucus,
or impolite, or whatever. Our problem is that our email list is--
for all intents and purposes-- our SOLE means of communicating with
our fellow citizens.

It is a truism that email communication fosters a certain sense of
anonymity, and anonymity fosters rudeness. It's far easier to shoot
off a firey or even flat-our rude email than it would be to say the
same thing to someone's face. And, similarly, when one is an officer
in an online organization, it's far easier to dismiss one's
responsibilities as being ephemeral and easily abandoned.
(Concomitantly, it's far harder to simply disappear from the world
if you have friends and colleagues whom you see and speak to on a
regular basis.)

My solution? Bring Nova Roma into the real world!

We have a system for Oppidia and Municipalia in place! We have
numerous places throughout the world where there are at least a
handful of citizens in easy (or just doable) distance. And if we
don't have a couple of other cives willing to get together? You have
the power-- yes YOU-- to find more. Just make up a flyer and put it
up around town. I did, and I'm averaging one new contact a week.
Just wait until I hit the colleges in the fall...

So, you want to have a more civil discourse? Get people meeting more
face to face. Travel yourself to whatever events you possibly can.
Try not to limit yourself to events that happen to feature something
you favor; just because an event doesn't have a ritual of the
Religio, or vendors, or gladiators, or whatever, think of it always
as an opportunity to put faces to names, and meet your fellow cives.

I guarantee you'll think differently before you fire off that angry
email, if its aimed at someone you shared a meal with last year.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Pater Patriae

> To whom does one complain to about

> else quit and the senate@... list is shut

>
> --- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>

> >
> > That's it Diana. You've been warned. You're now

> > next seven days.
> >
> > -- Marinus
> >
> > Diana Octavia Aventina wrote:
> >
> > > Domitius Constantinus Fuscus wrote:
> > >
> > > <You know, saying what Diana said is

> > >
> > > Who me? You must mean Pompeia. I found it

> > be a
> > > passionate suck. LOL! So get your names straight

> > >
> > > <A secerdos, mind you, who maybe should have a
> > > <slightly higher, not way lower, standard than

> > >
> > > Poor guy, for your sake I hope that you don't

> > pick
> > > up a babe...
> > >
> > > Here, let the Priestess of Venus educate you

> > something
> > > quite natural. This may come as a shock to you

> > > including you, is a result of sex.... and odds

> > > involved in the act.
> > >
> > >
> > >>public sexual innuendos
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL! You should talk! Everytime I see your name,

> > >
> > > < offensive towads a note civis...
> > > Ho Ho Ho, I won't even touch that one!
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > Diana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

> That's it Diana. You've been warned. You're now on
> moderation for the next seven days.
>
> -- Marinus

> Gaius Modius Athanasius Domitio Constantino Fusco salutem dicit
>
> Other religions are welcome, as the private expression of a citizens belief.
> Also, I can accept a person for being what they are, but I don't expect them
> to impose their morals upon me.
>
> Within Nova Roma I care about Romanitas; being Roman. As someone who makes
> offerings to the Gods of Rome I help to increase my Romanitas, and the
> Romanitas of Nova Roma. Don't expect me to increase my Romanitas by
> following a set of ethics that are not Roman, that will not happen in my
> capacity as a Nova Roman citizen, magistrate, or priest.
>
> I have several friends who are Christian in Nova Roma. When I am in their
> HOME I follow their customs, and traditionas and respect their moral code.
> That is being respectful. That doesn't mean, I have to honor a moral code
> that is foreign to Romanitas within this, or any other, Nova Roman forum.
>
> Vale;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 7/8/2004 10:49:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Domitius
> Constantinus Fuscus <dom.con.fus@...> writes:
>
> >So, I do not understand how it goes: other religions are welcomed but their
> >moral codes and ethics can be publically slandered? And again, it was
> Drusus,
> >another pontifex, to start talking about religious moral codes, when the
> >discussion was about the role of teh Censores in the qntiquity, based on
> quotes
> >from classic writers.
> >
> >Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
> >PF Constantinia
> >Aedilis Urbis
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Ex Officio
>
> As a Tribune I exercise Intercessio against Consul Marinus in his recent
> moderation of Diana Octavia on the grounds of the constitution that states:
>
> "The right to participate in all public forums and discussions, and the right
> to reasonably expect such forums to be supported by the State. Such
> communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the
> State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
> Republic. Such officially sponsored forums may be expected to be reasonably
> moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility;"
>
> I am of the opinion that the words of Diana Octavia were of no immediate
> threat to the state and was no worse than scores of other posts that have
> made it into our forum. These sanctions, and acts of censorship need to
> stop.
>
> I encourage my fellow Tribunes to stand up for freedom of speech and to
> support my action of intercessio.
>
> Let us remember that everyone here: citizen, magistrate, and priest are all
> here because we want to be. If someone wants to threaten another with harm
> then let them be moderated, but Diana did nothing to warrent her moderation
> on this list.
>
> And before I am being accused of "politics" I would never insist on anyone
> become moderated on my account. If someone has something to say to me, and
> about me, I would rather they say it, and I wouldn't want them to be
> moderated either (unless of course they violated constitution by being a
> threat to the welfare and safety of others).
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Tribunus Plebis

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Fr. Apulo Caesar. Salve.
>
> I hate to disagree with you, civis, but the phallus was not just a
lower
> class symbol or limited to brothels. Bakers carved the phallus on
their ovens as
> a symbol to turn away bad fortune. Phalli were among the
commonest pieces of
> jewelry found all over the Roman world in the form of amulets,
phylacteries,
> and rings. It was probably as common as a four leave clover is
today.
> Representations of the phallus have been found in many areas of
Pompeii, Herculaneum,
> and Ostia that had no association with brothels, just as
representations of
> Faunus and Priapus abounded in the ancient world.
>
> Vale.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Sulla;
>
> Hey! That graffiti is from Imperial times and not the Republic and
it was by low class citizens in brothels...or something like that
from what I'm told.
>
> I also heard that Romans during the Republic only has sex for
procreation and...
>
> Oh, nevermind. I had a momentary loss of sanity. :)
>
> </sarcasm>
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 7/8/2004 11:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "L.
Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> writes:
>
> >Ave
> >
> >I guess the people who are complaining about sexual innuendos
would be actually shocked to death if they visited Pompeii and saw
the phallic statues, good luck phallus's, and pictures of sexual
positions in brothels that were done in public, let alone the
massive amounts of Roman Graffiti.
> >
> >Vale,
> >
> >Sulla

> (on the nova Roma Laws list,
> for the ones who follow just this listÂ… you too Sulla, you, oh

> defender of the authority of the NR offices, who asked but a few

> very same moderators you criticize now to intervene in another

> Shall I start posting Catullus to the list?

> He is, unlike Martial, a
> republican poet, and I doubt he'd meet your standards of

> YEAH we can use some Catullus on this list! It will really upset

> "Further, in the interests of protecting our younger citizens,

> must be strictly within the context of an historical discussion.

> they are to be made in private. " (Edictum praetoricium de moderatione).

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Fusce,
>
> > (on the nova Roma Laws list,
> > for the ones who follow just this listÂ… you too Sulla, you, oh
> strenuous
> > defender of the authority of the NR offices, who asked but a few
> days ago the
> > very same moderators you criticize now to intervene in another
> case).
>
> I think you are seeing as all the citizens here that the Boni have a
> strange LIBRA: they change their opinions and battles in accordance
> to who is the victim.
> The libra goes to the side of the "moralist and integralist
> inquisition" if someone is huritng them ... in this case the libra
> is going to the side of the "heroes of the freedom" ;-)
> I think the libra need a detailed check-up. :-D
>
> Vale
> FAC

> I Can only laugh at the pretense that this policy is protecting all
> these children. I Have to question why only one group in Nova Roma

> some "right" to protect it's children at the expense of others.

> I Urge each of you to visit Nova Roma's splash page, not the Index
> page with the flag, the splash page with the Wolf at
> http://www.novaroma.org/
> This is one of the oldest sections of Nova Roma's site. It includes
> the following
>
> "Because Roman Virtues mean more than Family Values..."

> L. Sicinius Drusus

> G. Equitius Cato L. Sicinio Druso S.D.
>
> salve, Sicinius Drusus.
>
>
> > I Can only laugh at the pretense that this policy is protecting all
> > these children. I Have to question why only one group in Nova Roma
> has
> > some "right" to protect it's children at the expense of others.
>
> CATO: The point is not that I think there are hordes of eager
> children running through the List; the point is that the Edict, as
> written below, was violated. Now, if you don't think we *need* that
> edict, then I suggest that you try to have it repealed. Until such
> time, however, all citizens are *required* to obey it, whether or not
> they think it is reasonable or applicable. If I were to contravene
> an edict regarding the religio, I can only imagine the firestorm that
> would come down upon me from a great height, with all the fury and
> outrage of the Boni.
>
> "Further, in the interests of protecting our younger citizens,
> sexual references must be strictly within the context of an
> historical discussion. Otherwise, they are to be made in private. "
> (Edictum praetoricium de moderatione).
>
>
> > I Urge each of you to visit Nova Roma's splash page, not the Index
> > page with the flag, the splash page with the Wolf at
> > http://www.novaroma.org/
> > This is one of the oldest sections of Nova Roma's site. It includes
> > the following
> >
> > "Because Roman Virtues mean more than Family Values..."
>
> CATO: I don't care what the "Splash Page" says, I care about the
> laws and edicts of Nova Roma. If a citizen is free to scoff at one,
> what is to keep another citizen from scoffing at one that *you*
> like? Think well, pontiff, before you open this door.
>
>
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> vale,
>
> Cato

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizens leaving


Salve,

I think this has been brought up before. We could appoint a
Praeceptor(Guide) for each new
Citizen. For the 90 day probationary period the Praeceptor would be
the point of contact for
the Citizen. At the end of the 90 days the Praeceptor would contact
the new Citizen and ask
if he/she wanted to remain in NR. If not, the Praeceptor would
instruct the Citizen to e-mail
the Censors of his/her wish not to be a Citizen. The Praeceptor would
also notify theCensors
of the probationary Citizens desire to leave. How the Praeceptor's are
chosen I would leave up
to the Censor's due to the fact they would have to work closely together.

Vale,
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> The Childrens section of the edict should be deleted, it has become a
> betrayal of the Ideals that led to Nova Roma's foundation.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

> That's a rather Broad Brush you are painting with. It's a typical
> trick of some of the seedier politicians, to attempt to find one

> that one member of a group did and to try to present it as the

> of the group.

> This talk of the Boni is always amusing, largely because it's so

> The Boni list was my idea, the name is of my choosing, and it

> something about the group that has escaped most of it's critics,

> that is a situation I find a great deal of humor in.

> One thing is that the only religion officially
> recognized is the Religio Romana,
> another is taking the morals of the other religions
> and isse judgments
> (especially negative ones) about them over the
> public list, and unecessarly
> too, given that until Drusus had named them, no one
> had even vaguely hinted at
> christian morals.

> That is a great idea! We could leave them all in
> gens Nemo until
> they pass the test....

> The Splash page is important, it's VERY important, because it shows
> that section of the edict goes against the very ideals that Nova >?
>Roma was founded on, ones that are still contained in our splash
>page, even if some wish they weren't there.
>
> Those ideas remain valid to us today, far more vaild that promoting
>a "family values" system that was explictly rejected at Nova Roma's
> formation, but which is now being enforced on this list.
>
> The Childrens section of the edict should be deleted, it has become
>a betrayal of the Ideals that led to Nova Roma's foundation.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

> 4. what happens if someone failed it? Could we
> feed them to he
> wolves? Or toss 'em off the Tarpeian Rock? Or force
> them to map out
> the grammatical structure of one of Apollonius
> Cordus' posts?

>
> No, the purpose of a test is to say, 'this is what you
> need to know before you start. If you don't know it,
> go away and look up the answers. Keep trying until you
> know the answers. Then you'll be equipped to begin.'
> The purpose of asking a question is to force the
> applicant to find out the answer.

> A Test will be more than just a chance for a prospective citizen to
> show he has a basic knowledge of Roma by answering the questions, it
> will also be a chance for someone to aquire that knowledge while
> googling for the answers in the process of taking the test.
>
> It dosen't mater if the new citizen knew all the answers before he

> down to take the test, or if he learned them in the process of

> the test. The important thing is that he has that basic knowledge

> he assumes the duties of citizenship.

>
> Drusus

>
> CATO: I support without hesitation your right to believe this, and
> urge you then to take action to repeal it. Trying to support D.
> Octavia Aventina's actions by ridiculing it, however, really does not
> make your case stronger.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: FAC
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:17 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dignitas!


SAlvete Senator Sulla et Tribunus Athanasius,
I appreciated your sarcasm, I thing it's the best way to restore a
peaceful and friendly relationships ;-)
I would precise to you that I'm not shocked by the "sexual
innuendos", this is very funny and I'm young, man, etero, single and
italian ... ;-P In the beginning of my Cursus I proposed to an
higher Magistrate to organize a virtual photogallery of roman "top
models" and my idea was rejected. I know that it was rejected not
because this magistrate was too moralist, but because he was trying
to avoid "dangerous situations" anf to respect everyone here.
If you would use sexual innuendos here, I'll not against it, please
let do it. But I would read the comment of the fathers of mothers of
little nova romans reading sexual messages in the public list.

So, maybe you're usual to this situations thinking that someone here
is very close to pornographical jobs, but please consider the
consequences of your opinions and chooses.

P.S.: Illustri, I don't think here you're protecting the freedom of
speech of the public nova roman morality. I think you're protecting
a your friend amd nothing more. Honestly I don't think you're very
interesting to this topic and I would suppose that you as
traditionalists would attack an opponent which wrote a "low joke"
like the message by Diana.
But this are only personal supposition and opinions, you will never
confirm them.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> Sulla;
>
> Hey! That graffiti is from Imperial times and not the Republic and
it was by low class citizens in brothels...or something like that
from what I'm told.
>
> I also heard that Romans during the Republic only has sex for
procreation and...
>
> Oh, nevermind. I had a momentary loss of sanity. :)
>
> </sarcasm>
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 7/8/2004 11:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "L.
Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@e...> writes:
>
> >Ave
> >
> >I guess the people who are complaining about sexual innuendos
would be actually shocked to death if they visited Pompeii and saw
the phallic statues, good luck phallus's, and pictures of sexual
positions in brothels that were done in public, let alone the
massive amounts of Roman Graffiti.
> >
> >Vale,
> >
> >Sulla


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: FAC
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:43 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: About the moderation of Diana Aventina


Salve Fusce,

> (on the nova Roma Laws list,
> for the ones who follow just this list. you too Sulla, you, oh
strenuous
> defender of the authority of the NR offices, who asked but a few
days ago the
> very same moderators you criticize now to intervene in another
case).

I think you are seeing as all the citizens here that the Boni have a
strange LIBRA: they change their opinions and battles in accordance
to who is the victim.
The libra goes to the side of the "moralist and integralist
inquisition" if someone is huritng them ... in this case the libra
is going to the side of the "heroes of the freedom" ;-)
I think the libra need a detailed check-up. :-D

Vale
FAC


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ...our consul who says he has an open marriage.

> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.
>
> Well, I looked through my books at home to try to
> confirm what Ti. Arcanius Agricola mentioned about the
> censors' job including charging people with impiety.
> I'm afraid, Agricola, that I couldn't find any
> reference to it. Maybe I have the wrong books, but it
> may also be that it wasn't strictly part of the job,
> only an optional extra. But it would be perfectly in
> line with the rest of the duties.
>
> I did find another interesting tidbit about the
> censura, from Andrew Lintott's handy book, 'The
> Constitution of the Roman Republic' (Oxford University
> Press, 2003 paperback edn.), pp. 116-7:
>
> "The two censors were the magistrates appointed
> specifically to conduct the census... It may well have
> been initially undertaken by the consuls or another
> supreme magistrate... However, no substitute could
> perform for the censor the ritual purification, the
> lustrum, which was the culmination of the census
> itself. We cannot tell for sure that this was a duty
> of the censors when first they were elected, but it
> seems likely that the performance of the ritual was a
> major reason for the creation of the magistracy. In
> any case it must be regarded as central to the concept
> of the magistracy as we find it in the middle
> Republic, and it shows that more was at stake than the
> mechanical tasks of counting and assessment of
> property: the ranking of citizens and the assessment
> of their moral worth has a particular point as a
> preliminary to a purification."
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW

> My sarcasm has been in check in this conversation.

> What I do have here are pictures of Pomepii and postcards because

> Hey, I cannot help it if sex was a large part of the ancients

> Awww

> Apulus, are you really trying to bring up my past? I mean we are

> But that is nothing compared to our consul who says he has an open

> As for your PS. Have I called for anyone to be moderated?

----- Original Message -----
From: FAC
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Dignitas!


Salve Senator Sulla,

> My sarcasm has been in check in this conversation.

Of course, you and Tribunus Athanasius started the sarcastic posts
and I love them :-)

Sulla: Good for you. ;)

> What I do have here are pictures of Pomepii and postcards because
my best friend went to Italy last year. He told me just how many
phallus's he saw.

Senator, I live far 150 km from Pompei and I have seen the ruins
maybe 12-15 times. I can confirm that there are many phallus,
yes ... but I can confirm you that you could them this kind of
symbols only in the ancient poorest area of the city. You never find
them in the public orum, close to the arena, close to the houses of
the richest citizens. Please, trust me.
I would invite you here in Italy and visit togheter Pompei, I could
show you the ruins and at the end offer you a typical local dessert.
I would be honoured.

Sulla: One day in the future, I will have to take you up on your offer.

> Hey, I cannot help it if sex was a large part of the ancients
life. Again, this seems to be a problem with people who think of
the Romans as Victorians instead of well....Romans.

Oh no, senator, I agree with you, never the people should compare
the Ancient world with the english Victorian morality. I could
recall the interesting philosophical studies about the sexual
conventions in the Ancient Greece.

Sulla: Excellent. Since we just had our first Catullus post... Now I do have to disagree with you in part because I do not think the sexual interest was kept for the lower classes....because I do not think of Catullus or Caesar or Pompeius Magnus as apart of the lower classes. :)

> Awww

What is this? :-O Sorry, I didn't understood. Maybe are you
boring? ;-)

Sulla: Its awwwww....and no....I am not bored at all. Are you?

> Apulus, are you really trying to bring up my past? I mean we are
talking about 5 years ago, when I was a partner of a conglomerate.

Sorry, Sulla, maybe you misenderstood my words, I didn't write
anything about you and your personal life because I know nothing
about your private world and your past. I didn't reffered to you...

Sulla: Good. It seemed like you did...but I will take you at your word.

> But that is nothing compared to our consul who says he has an open
marriage. If you want to throw stones, make certain you spread it
around and be careful that you do not have a glass house yourself.

Why you are putting in the discussion the Consul? This is a little
conversation between you and me. In Italy we say that "it seems
you are doin free-climbing on the glass" ;-)

Sulla: Please! I have lived with my fiancee for 5 years and we are both committed to each other. We plan to get married once I graduate with my second Masters Degree and I begin teaching, and for the record we will not have an open marriage. <g> Honestly I do not care about our consul's personal life, I just think the duplicity in his morality is quite interesting. Hence my bringing it up. And, I am not familiar with your saying....is it similar to the one I mentioned previously?

> As for your PS. Have I called for anyone to be moderated?

mmmmhmmmhhmhm ... Sulla, I could just recall the messages n. 25255
and 25271 cliclking 2 or 3 times the button Previous ... ;-)

Sulla: In message 25255, I asked what does it take for someone to get moderated. And pretty much the same with message 25271. But thank you again for trying. The reason I asked what it takes was because a citizen called a senator a liar. Again, thank you for trying. I am eagerly waiting for your next attempt. <g>

Vale,

Sulla

... continuing </sarcasm>

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I do not remember of any Real Roman resigning from his office,
> without being forced by physical violence.

> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete!
>
> Here's an excellent collection of erotic art from the classical world.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/eros/
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
> Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:48 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: About the moderation of Diana Aventina


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
<dom.con.fus@f...> wrote:

> "Further, in the interests of protecting our younger citizens,
sexual references
> must be strictly within the context of an historical discussion.
Otherwise,
> they are to be made in private. " (Edictum praetoricium de moderatione).

Salvete Omnes,

What about the Children? The favorite cry of the modern flavor of
Censors. I Have to ask What Children?

Do we have parents who read the Nova Roma Main list to their children
as bed time stories? (Once apon a time Drusus posted...) I Can see
that it would have the advantage of quickly boring the tykes to sleep,
but I just don't think it's something that's commonly done.

Well what about older children, what about the 9 year olds. Sorry I
can only think of one way to get a child of that age to read the Nova
Roma Main List. Punishment. "Young Man, I Told you to clean your Room.
If you don't you are going to spend the next hour reading Nova Roman
Posts!" This may seem tempting but I have to warn you that the
authorities are likely to consider this to be child abuse.

Well maybe the teens are sneaking a peek at this list. I Don't think
so. This has to be one of the most uncool, unhip places in the history
of the Internet. We are talking Major League Geekdom here. Pocket
Protector, Taped up Glasses Nerds. We rank right up there with the
Comic Book Guy from "the Simpsons" on the Geek-o-meter. If you are 13
and your friends catch you reading this list you might as well strap a
caculator on your belt and join the Chess Club because you've blown
any chance of having a reputation for being cool.

The older Teens? This may shock some of you but the older teens not
only know about the Birds and the Bees, but are out there "stinging"
each other.

I Can only laugh at the pretense that this policy is protecting all
these children. I Have to question why only one group in Nova Roma has
some "right" to protect it's children at the expense of others.

Are there Vegans out there, do we have to censor the list to protect
their children?

"Alert The Modarators, Drusus is talking about cooking Hamburgers on
his Grill"

Or The Kosher?

"He's making them into Bacon Cheese Burgers!!"

Quirite's,

I Urge each of you to visit Nova Roma's splash page, not the Index
page with the flag, the splash page with the Wolf at
http://www.novaroma.org/

This is one of the oldest sections of Nova Roma's site. It includes
the following

"Because Roman Virtues mean more than Family Values..."

"Family Values", how many of you realize the signifiance of that phrase?

It's there as a slap at Jerry Falwell's campaign to cram his brand of
Christanity down America's throat under the label of "Family Values",
a campaign that includs the same kind of Purtianical Censorship to
"protect" the Children as we now see in Nova Roma.

Jerry Falwell's "Family Values" now rule this list instead of Roman
virtues.

L. Sicinius Drusus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> Senator, I live far 150 km from Pompei and I have seen the ruins
> maybe 12-15 times. I can confirm that there are many phallus,
> yes ... but I can confirm you that you could them this kind of
> symbols only in the ancient poorest area of the city. You never

> them in the public orum, close to the arena, close to the houses

> the richest citizens. Please, trust me.

> Fr. Apulus Caesar

> Salve L. Sicinius Drusus who said in part "I Have to ask What

>
> Scriboni for one.
>
> He is fourteen year old. He already knows he wants to be a Classical

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:48 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: About the moderation of Diana Aventina
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
> <dom.con.fus@f...> wrote:
>
> > "Further, in the interests of protecting our younger citizens,
> sexual references
> > must be strictly within the context of an historical discussion.
> Otherwise,
> > they are to be made in private. " (Edictum praetoricium de

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> What about the Children? The favorite cry of the modern flavor of
> Censors. I Have to ask What Children?
>
> Do we have parents who read the Nova Roma Main list to their children
> as bed time stories? (Once apon a time Drusus posted...) I Can see
> that it would have the advantage of quickly boring the tykes to sleep,
> but I just don't think it's something that's commonly done.
>
> Well what about older children, what about the 9 year olds. Sorry I
> can only think of one way to get a child of that age to read the Nova
> Roma Main List. Punishment. "Young Man, I Told you to clean your Room.
> If you don't you are going to spend the next hour reading Nova Roman
> Posts!" This may seem tempting but I have to warn you that the
> authorities are likely to consider this to be child abuse.
>
> Well maybe the teens are sneaking a peek at this list. I Don't think
> so. This has to be one of the most uncool, unhip places in the history
> of the Internet. We are talking Major League Geekdom here. Pocket
> Protector, Taped up Glasses Nerds. We rank right up there with the
> Comic Book Guy from "the Simpsons" on the Geek-o-meter. If you are 13
> and your friends catch you reading this list you might as well strap a
> caculator on your belt and join the Chess Club because you've blown
> any chance of having a reputation for being cool.
>
> The older Teens? This may shock some of you but the older teens not
> only know about the Birds and the Bees, but are out there "stinging"
> each other.
>
> I Can only laugh at the pretense that this policy is protecting all
> these children. I Have to question why only one group in Nova Roma has
> some "right" to protect it's children at the expense of others.
>
> Are there Vegans out there, do we have to censor the list to protect
> their children?
>
> "Alert The Modarators, Drusus is talking about cooking Hamburgers on
> his Grill"
>
> Or The Kosher?
>
> "He's making them into Bacon Cheese Burgers!!"
>
> Quirite's,
>
> I Urge each of you to visit Nova Roma's splash page, not the Index
> page with the flag, the splash page with the Wolf at
> http://www.novaroma.org/
>
> This is one of the oldest sections of Nova Roma's site. It includes
> the following
>
> "Because Roman Virtues mean more than Family Values..."
>
> "Family Values", how many of you realize the signifiance of that

>
> It's there as a slap at Jerry Falwell's campaign to cram his brand of
> Christanity down America's throat under the label of "Family Values",
> a campaign that includs the same kind of Purtianical Censorship to
> "protect" the Children as we now see in Nova Roma.
>
> Jerry Falwell's "Family Values" now rule this list instead of Roman
> virtues.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]