Salve.

We're working on it, I promise! Be paitient my friend!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos

lacedaemonius2004 wrote:

>Salve,
>I ask this...How can We reach people with modern outreach and
>teaching methods? We don't live in 2nd c.e. but now whith modern
>people. how can we bring the Religio to them?
>Luci
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salve Lucius

Thank you for your clarification. I am sure that is a hope shared by
many of us.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lacedaemonius2004"
<lacedaemonius2004@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Caesar,
> No I donot Support any Change in State or private worship. More

out

> reach and Also in the Methods of Worship. I.e. more worship centers
> and methods of worship. The Format of those worship would be
> Traditional but done in a diffrent route.
> What do I mean, More Temples, in the RW. More Lay leaders and more
> minor Priest/ess. In Real World locations. More Religio Teachers
> teaching the beliefs. I am not saying "lets say Mars is a laid back
> surfer dude" . I want to see Religio out in the World. Big.
> Luci

Salve C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.,
That's nice. I guess Congrats.
Luci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete, Drusus et Caesar.
>
> Saturn? Really? I would have thought that because Iuppiter is
> the "King of the Gods", he would be identified by the Romans with
> the the God ("King of the Universe") of the monotheists. I was
> thinking of the lightning/thunder aspect, as well. Saturn, Drusus?
> Why?
>
> valete,
>
> Cato

Saturn was a Lawgiver and so was the Jewish God.

Drusus

We're working on it, I promise! Be paitient my friend!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos

Salve C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix,
Thank You. That is all I really want is for Us to try and do so.
Vale,
Luci

Salve,

What tell You see my e-mail to all of the Pontifex in Nova Roma. ; )
I think Then all of You will want to knock me out. As my request
deals I want a Nova Roma Religio Book done.
Luci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lacedaemonius2004"
<lacedaemonius2004@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix Quiritibus S.P.D.,
> That's nice. I guess Congrats.
> Luci

Salve,
I don't know much about the Boni. So I don't want this to sound smart.
Luci

Salve, Drusus.

Ah. OK. Gotcha. Iuppiter's a better match, though, I think.

vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete, Drusus et Caesar.
> >
> > Saturn? Really? I would have thought that because Iuppiter is
> > the "King of the Gods", he would be identified by the Romans
with
> > the the God ("King of the Universe") of the monotheists. I was
> > thinking of the lightning/thunder aspect, as well. Saturn,
Drusus?
> > Why?
> >
> > valete,
> >
> > Cato
>
> Saturn was a Lawgiver and so was the Jewish God.
>
> Drusus

I Don't think you want to go down that road. How many kids did Iupiter
have? ;-)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:

> Salve, Drusus.
>
> Ah. OK. Gotcha. Iuppiter's a better match, though, I think.
>
> vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete, Drusus et Caesar.
> > >
> > > Saturn? Really? I would have thought that because Iuppiter is
> > > the "King of the Gods", he would be identified by the Romans
> with
> > > the the God ("King of the Universe") of the monotheists. I was
> > > thinking of the lightning/thunder aspect, as well. Saturn,
> Drusus?
> > > Why?
> > >
> > > valete,
> > >
> > > Cato
> >
> > Saturn was a Lawgiver and so was the Jewish God.
> >
> > Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@g...> wrote:

> Omnibus S.P.D. Fl Vedius Germanicus
>
> It is with vast pleasure and pride that I would like to announce
>that
> Juliana Vedia, my daughter, is once more a cive impubere, and I can
>say
> with confidence that she is the most precocious three-year-old Nova
> Roman around.

Congratulations dad for bringing her back in. It's good to see other
Nova Romans entering their children as citizens. Little Palladius
sends his greetings. (or so I'm interpreting those baby noises from
earlier today :-)


Vale,

Palladius

Luci;

I am the founder, and current treasurer of the Miami Valley Pagan Alliance.

I am the liturgy coordinator for Dayton Pagan Pride Day.

I have conducted workshops at Summerland Gathering, Elysium Gathering, and
Pagan Spirit Gathering -- all of which were well attended.

I have performed public Roman Reconstructionist rituals at Pagan Festivals.

I spend almost every aspect of my life devoted to a Pagan/Religio endeavor.
I work so I can afford to focus on my Pagan community and the Roman community.
When I have time I pick up a book. I find myself on the phone frequently
either working on a project or helping somone in my local community with a
problem.

Ground work IS being done. Things ARE being done. But it is impossible to
be all places at once, and community has to start locally.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 8/3/2004 12:26:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lacedaemonius2004@... writes:
Salve, Caeser.
I mean reaching out to those in the pan-pagan community and
teaching. Real outreach not adhoc. No Hare Krishna stuff just basic
ground work. Teach lore, Stories. Stuff, We as a nation can do. Heck
most of you seem Smart, most, I bet You could come up with an action
plan way better then I can. About how we can build better then
sitting in a back water

The comment stands I am a nobody. Beyond my views on Ethic Roman
Virtues and Religio, I have no views. I am a citizen. The comment
about Money giver is thus, A money giver has a right to voice his
views.
I guess that You guys pay your taxes. Not my business. I hope You do,
but my right as a tax paying citizen gives me the right to express my
views. That is all i meant.
Luci


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Drusus,

Quibbling being a high art here...

I feel obliged to point out that AA is not the only province with its own
spaceport (I will grant that it is the most developed one).
And the weather is better in California (ye gods, your humidity!).
Not to mention that most of the plausible sites here would be above sea
level through the next couple centuries. Much of AA may not be.
Besides, we do aqueducts out here like no one since the Romans.

Vale,
Ursus

> >In all
> > likelihood, the administrative center for Nova Roma WILL be built in
> > the USA.
>
>Not only in the USA, but in the garden spot of the planet, the Gods
>favored land, the best of all the Provinces, America Austrorientalis,
>the only Province with it's own Space Port, and the future home of
>Nova Roma's Forum.
>
>Drusus
>(Bet this one gets a lot of replies!) ;-)

gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote: And if it were in NYC, it'd be:

"YO! Get in here and worship Us! And bring coffee! And a bagel!"

OK, So in coming home from work, I thread my way through herds of
bomb dogs, armored vehicles, about 40 cop cars with lights flashing,
concrete barriers, hundreds of individuals in battle gear and Very
Large Guns, onto the #6 train, only to have service suspended for
a "police investigation". Could one of you, in some other state, do
SOMETHING to piss off the terrorists? The alert level in NYC is
always one step above the rest of the country anyways, so today was
somewhere between "Orange" and "Really Bright Orange". Sheesh.


Cato

Maybe we can get Arnie to call them "girlie men" and see what effect that has on the terrorists.

And if it were in southern California, it wouldn't matter how you'd say it, just as long as we can worship in our cars. Not so much because we do everything in our cars, but because we spend so much time sitting in traffic, might as well worship the Gods while we're parked on the freeways. Who knows? Maybe one of them will be so pleased, He or She will make the ten wheeler that has just spilled tons of cantaloupes across three lanes of the 101 dissappear, fruit included. :)

Wishing you better days in NYC,

Maxima Valeria Messallina


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex Officio Propraetoris Galliae

Edictum Propraetoricium V

About the Curia Interpretum

It is instituted in Gallia a Curia Interpretum.

This Curia will carry out all work of translation required by the
activity of Gallia, and in particular:
- Translation of the legislative and rules or regulations texts
published on the Nova-Roma's Main Site of Nova-Roma.
- Translation of the rules or regulations texts emitted within
Gallia.
- Translation necessary for the correspondence of official of
Gallia with those of the other Provinces of Nova-Roma.
- Translation necessary for the comprehension of the Gallia's
productions of Gallia by all the citizens of the Province, even by
those of the other provinces.

The daily management of the Curia concerns the Prefect in charge
with the General Organization and the Communication, which will ensure:
- transmission to the qualified translator of the requests made
by his colleagues and the return of the translations carried out.
- the follow-up of the planning of the translations requested.

The members of this Curia are appointed by the Propraetor of
Gallia, possibly on proposition of the Prefect in charge with the
General Organization and the Communication. They have rank of Scriba
Propraetoris and are subjected to the rules and obligations resulting
from Edictum III.

This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given in Lutetia August the 3, Year 2004 of the current Era, in the
year of the consulship of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus ante diem III Non. SEXTILES MMDCCLVII AUC.

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
+++++++++++++++
Ex Officio Propraetoris Galliae

Edictum Propraetoricium V

Concernant la Curia Interpretum

Il est institué en Gallia une Curia Interpretum

Cette Curia effectuera tous les travaux de traduction que nécessite
l'activité de Gallia et notamment:

-Travaux de traduction des textes législatifs et réglementaires
publiés sur le Site Principal de Nova-Roma.
-Travaux de traduction des textes réglementaires émis au sein de Gallia.

-Travaux de traduction nécessaire pour la correspondance des
officiels de Gallia avec ceux des autres Provinces de Nova-Roma.
-Travaux de traduction nécessaires pour la compréhension des
productions de Gallia par tous les citoyens de la Province, voire par
ceux des autres provinces.

La gestion ordinaire de la curia relève du Préfet Chargé de
l'Organisation Générale et de la Communication, qui assurera:
-La transmission au traducteur compétent des demandes faites par
ses collègues et le retour des traductions effectuées.
-Le suivi du planning des traductions demandées

Les membres de cette curia sont nommés par le Propraetor de Gallia,
éventuellement sur Proposition du Préfet Chargé de l'Organisation
Générale et de la Communication. Ils ont rang de Scriba Propraetoris
et sont soumis aux règles et obligations résultant de l'Edictum III.


Cet Edictum est applicable immédiatement.

Fait à Lutèce le 3 Août, Année 2004 de l'Ere courante, année du
Consulat de Gnaeus Salix Astur et Gnaeus Equitius Marinus ante diem
III Non. SEXTILES MMDCCLVII AUC.

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote: G. Equitius Cato Lucio S.D.

salve, Lucius.

Please don't be hesitant to post. I'm relatively new and I can't
keep my yap shut. A couple of things you might want to know about
this list, though:


You post something. Say, "The sky is blue."

Fabius Maximus will explain that when he and Heather Locklear were
shooting that promo, the sky was blue as well.

Drusus will claim that in the Republic, the sky was a CERTAIN COLOR
blue, not just "any" blue, and if you try to "modernize" the color,
you're in big trouble.

Iulius Caesar will ask if you really *really* think the sky is blue -
-- and WHY?

Sulla will tell you that when he and others founded Nova Roma, the
sky being blue wasn't nearly as important as the fact that the sky
did actually exist, and just needs someone to recognize the fact.

Fuscus will want to pass a law declaring that, in accordance with a
rigid Constitution, the sky will ALWAYS be blue. And NOT just in
the US, either.

Scaurus will sacrifice a chicken to ensure that the sky remains blue.

Diana Aventina will don a sky-blue virtual toga.

Maior will get sky-blue in the face shouting at Scaurus for
sacrificing the chicken AND at Drusus for --- well, because he's
Drusus.

Athanasius will declare that the Di Immortales have chosen the sky
to be sky blue and to think otherwise is blasphemy.

Vedius Germanicus will state that when he founded NR, he *intended*
for the sky to be this blue. He may have gotten the Latin a little
off, but really, it's all about the individual's need for the sky to
be the color they want it to be.

Cordus will send in a 27-page post regarding every possible aspect
of the blueness of the sky; taking direct quotes from every known
living meteorologist (and a few ancients, to create a nice balance),
and extrapolating an entire life- and world-view from the appearance
of blueness in the sky.

Just another day in paradise :-)

vale,

Cato

LOL
Thanks for the warnings. :)
Another newbie,
Maxima

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites,

The exchange of messages that has taken place in the last days has made me think a lot of in Nova Roma and the ancient Rome, and I have some problems that I would like to think about.

In the ancien Rome the citizens and the provinciae worked with a common interest, to make Rome greater. The resources of these provinciae were used with this end and Rome was the physical center in which all the looks converged and everybody wanted to go.

Today Nova Roma has been created with the purpose of reconstructing the ancient Rome. And following this task now we have provinciae and they even have resources that make of the new Rome something again bigger. But there is something in this equation that fails. At the present time we don't take a physical place of reference to direct our resources and to make bigger.

But the problem is more complicated than that. Some of you could say that buying 108 acres the problem is solved. The problem, from my point of view, resides in what will pass once that land is bought. The place that is chosen to buy the earth will make that the provincia where it is acquires a different status to that of the rest. The equality among all the provinciae will have disappeared, and it could even be considered that a physical space of reference exists as to the one that was in the ancient Rome.

My question is: how will it be restructured the relationships among the provinciae once that land exists? The old system of Rome was based, to a certain extent, in the prey of resources, especially in republican time. Will they become the provinciae in some simple banks where to take out money once a year? What Nova Roma will make for the provinciae? Will she leave them alone as up to now?

Vale bene,

Pompeianus.


---------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Apolloni Germanice,

I can safely say that my friend Fuscus would make a damn good officer of Nova
Roma whatever position he takes. I too have some experience in NR and I think
we are both capable to do the job. The differences are minimal and can be
found perhaps in our public postings, highlighting more the views we hold on
certain matters than the ability we both have to be quaestores ;-)

Optime vale

Moravius Laureatus

In a message dated 02/08/04 02:05:30 GMT Daylight Time,
roland.pirard@... writes:

> Salvete Domitius Constantinus Fuscus and Caius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
> !
>
> As both of you are candidates for the quaestorship, could you tell me why I
> should vote for one of you ?
>
> Gratiae.
> Titus Apollonius Germanicus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL this post was hilarious!!!! Gotta keep this one for my archieves! Today, for the first time in a long time, if ever, I have to say that the ML was much more entertaining than the Back Alley. :)

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:42 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation


G. Equitius Cato Lucio S.D.

salve, Lucius.

Please don't be hesitant to post. I'm relatively new and I can't
keep my yap shut. A couple of things you might want to know about
this list, though:


You post something. Say, "The sky is blue."

Fabius Maximus will explain that when he and Heather Locklear were
shooting that promo, the sky was blue as well.

Drusus will claim that in the Republic, the sky was a CERTAIN COLOR
blue, not just "any" blue, and if you try to "modernize" the color,
you're in big trouble.

Iulius Caesar will ask if you really *really* think the sky is blue -
-- and WHY?

Sulla will tell you that when he and others founded Nova Roma, the
sky being blue wasn't nearly as important as the fact that the sky
did actually exist, and just needs someone to recognize the fact.

Fuscus will want to pass a law declaring that, in accordance with a
rigid Constitution, the sky will ALWAYS be blue. And NOT just in
the US, either.

Scaurus will sacrifice a chicken to ensure that the sky remains blue.

Diana Aventina will don a sky-blue virtual toga.

Maior will get sky-blue in the face shouting at Scaurus for
sacrificing the chicken AND at Drusus for --- well, because he's
Drusus.

Athanasius will declare that the Di Immortales have chosen the sky
to be sky blue and to think otherwise is blasphemy.

Vedius Germanicus will state that when he founded NR, he *intended*
for the sky to be this blue. He may have gotten the Latin a little
off, but really, it's all about the individual's need for the sky to
be the color they want it to be.

Cordus will send in a 27-page post regarding every possible aspect
of the blueness of the sky; taking direct quotes from every known
living meteorologist (and a few ancients, to create a nice balance),
and extrapolating an entire life- and world-view from the appearance
of blueness in the sky.

Just another day in paradise :-)

vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve, Lucius.
>
> Modernisation of the Religio? I am puzzled by what areas one could
> modernise, or why we would want to. Surely the strength of the
Relgio
> was the observance of ritual in a time honoured fashion, according
to
> precise formulae which could not be deviated from?
>
> If you mean adopting some of the more "in your face" tactics of
some
> cults today, I am personally not at all in favour of that. The
> Religio is surely a matter of state and domestic ritual. The state
> rituals need no modernisation - we surely just have to strive to
> recover as much of those rituals as is possible. I would find TV
> evangelism innapropriate personally, if that is the sort of
> modernisation you are suggesting.
>
> As to domestic ritual, I think this is too individual a journey
even
> within the confines of ritual, too personal, to push people into
or
> more accurately be seen to be doing so.
>
> Lastly most of us on this list who post pay taxes. You are not
alone.
> I would like you to share your thoughts on modernisation and not
be
> inhibited by your self-assumed status as a "nobody". It is
important
> I think once you have raised such a flag as modernisation of the
> Religio to finish the job and tell us how - even general
suggestions.
> Discourse is a good thing.
>
> Vale
> Gn. Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lacedaemonius2004"
> <lacedaemonius2004@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Gaius Modius Athanasius ,
> > not my place to say. I am just a follower. But opening up of
Local
> > Congregations. The Development of outreach. The teaching of
Roman
> > Beliefs in the Gods, Ethic, Virtues and all the stuff Nova Roma
> says
> > that it stands for one the website.
> > That would be a good place to start.
> > Luci
> > But I am a nobody, I pay taxes thats all I am a Money giver.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow, I got two descriptions....I must be special! <g>

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Character List Erratum


Actually, I just thought of this:

Sulla would grant you that yes, the sky may be blue, but ONLY THE
SENATE can make any official decision regarding the color of...well,
anything, really.

Cato

Um, Fabius Maximus? I don't know if you realized this, but
superglue actually DOES make popsicle sticks stick...to horses...
<cough>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 09:39 PM 8/2/2004, you wrote:

> > thinking of the lightning/thunder aspect, as well. Saturn, Drusus?
> > Why?
> >
> > valete,
> >
> > Cato
>
>Saturn was a Lawgiver and so was the Jewish God.
>
>Drusus

Look at what day the Jewish Shabbat equates to.

And I suspect that the Romans found the stern, rather dour character of the
Hebrew god more akin to Saturn than to Iuppiter. I suppose that the Jewish
Temple's association with money (money-lenders in the court, etc) and money
that could be ritually acceptable in offerings might have firmed up the
association with Saturn.

Vale,
Ursus

Salve,

Since I wrote an academic paper on this topic, I think that my ideas could be of interest to you. Unfortunately the paper is in German, so I don't think it makes sense to send it to you.

One of the main things you seemed to miss in your account of the changes that Marius brought to the army, is also the armament of the troops and the way to fight. Before Marius, there were different kinds of infantry-soldiers, depending on the class and wealth of the soldier. After Marius, there was only the classic legionary.

As you probably know, the weaponry and armory of each soldier before Marius, had to be paid by the soldier. After the reforms, the state had to see to it, that each legionary was completely equipped. This meant that in each camp, there had to be armories, blacksmiths and so on, in order to make sure that after each battle, the loricas, gladii and so on were replaced if lost or repaired.

For more information, please feel free to ask.

Vale bene, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




---------------------------------
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Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Can you still post it in German, I would be interested in reading it. We could try to translate it via www.freetranslation.com or babelfish.

Respectfully,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: TiAnO
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; duemmelc@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


Salve,

Since I wrote an academic paper on this topic, I think that my ideas could be of interest to you. Unfortunately the paper is in German, so I don't think it makes sense to send it to you.

One of the main things you seemed to miss in your account of the changes that Marius brought to the army, is also the armament of the troops and the way to fight. Before Marius, there were different kinds of infantry-soldiers, depending on the class and wealth of the soldier. After Marius, there was only the classic legionary.

As you probably know, the weaponry and armory of each soldier before Marius, had to be paid by the soldier. After the reforms, the state had to see to it, that each legionary was completely equipped. This meant that in each camp, there had to be armories, blacksmiths and so on, in order to make sure that after each battle, the loricas, gladii and so on were replaced if lost or repaired.

For more information, please feel free to ask.

Vale bene, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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In a message dated 8/2/04 9:27:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gn_iulius_caesar@... writes:

> No-one ever asked ME to join the Boni. But then, what did
> >W.C. Fields say? "I wouldn't want to be part of a club that wanted
> >me as a member?" :-)
>

No it was Groucho Marks and the quote was "I could never been a Club that
would
allow me in as a member."
Woody Allen later paraphrased this.
Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I will try and find it, even if the part about Marius is only one chapter in a work about Caesar. However, I would not like it to be translated by freetranslation or babelfish because I have had very bad experiences with such translation programs. I will translate it myself and send you an English version, if you don't mind waiting a few days??

Vale, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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Ave,

Thank you very much, I would appreciate it. Please, take all the time you need, there is absolutely no rush. I will look forward to reading it. :)

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: TiAnO
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


Salve,

I will try and find it, even if the part about Marius is only one chapter in a work about Caesar. However, I would not like it to be translated by freetranslation or babelfish because I have had very bad experiences with such translation programs. I will translate it myself and send you an English version, if you don't mind waiting a few days??

Vale, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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AS will I, TiAnO. Please forward to me as well.

Vale

Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla [mailto:alexious@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:37 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


Ave,

Thank you very much, I would appreciate it. Please, take all the time you
need, there is absolutely no rush. I will look forward to reading it. :)

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: TiAnO
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


Salve,

I will try and find it, even if the part about Marius is only one
chapter in a work about Caesar. However, I would not like it to be
translated by freetranslation or babelfish because I have had very bad
experiences with such translation programs. I will translate it myself and
send you an English version, if you don't mind waiting a few days??

Vale, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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Salve Caesar,
No I donot Support any Change in State or private worship. More out
reach and Also in the Methods of Worship. I.e. more worship centers
and methods of worship. The Format of those worship would be
Traditional but done in a diffrent route.
What do I mean, More Temples, in the RW. More Lay leaders and more
minor Priest/ess. In Real World locations. More Religio Teachers
teaching the beliefs. I am not saying "lets say Mars is a laid back
surfer dude" . I want to see Religio out in the World. Big.
Luci

This general was Sertorius.

Titus Apollonius Germanicus

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Abboud
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


I think it set the stage for the rise the generals. The soldiers were dependant on the their Generals for pay, loot and land when their service was over. Their loyalty to the senate and the state is now in question. Hind sight 20/20 I guess. These changes allowed the generals to march on Rome, often with the help of locally raised ruffians and establish their own rule alla Sulla, Pompey and Caesar.There are others less famous... that did or attempted to do the same. Example Around this time or slightly in the future Spain was basically its own Latin kingdom as the general sent there to quell rebellion formed a kingdom of his own.(cant remember the generals name at this time). Mithridates tried to form an alliance with him.

Marius also introduced new tactics for the soldiers. I think they switched from the cohort to the maniple or vice versa. The switch allowed the Romans to deal with the fighting in Africa that Marius was sent to deal with.

T.Arcanus Agricola
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Duemmel
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


I'd be very interested in knowing what ther rest of the list readers think
of the effects of Marius' reforms on the Roman Military.

As a reminder on what these reforms were, I'll attempt to refresh your
memories:

Maruis made military service available to any Roman citizen, whether or not
they were land owners. this allowed th epoor to enter military service, and
set the stage for a professional army. Marius also provides each legion with
a single standard, the eagle. Marius also reduced the size of baggage trains
accompanying the legions during the campaign season. This was accomplished
by having the Individual legionairre carry his won essential gear. This
change brought about the term "Marius' mules".

As a student at Academia Thules, this compromises my 2nd assignment, and I
am very interested in your responses.

M. Vitellius Ligus
Prafectus Fabrum, America Austrorientalis
Praefectus Regio,Florida Regio of America Austrorientalis


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YHWH would have undoubtedly been equated with either Saturn or
Ouranus. There is little recorded about Ouranus, but he is confirmed
as the original ruler of the heavens, and indeed, was identified as
the personification of that plane itself. Additionally, he is the
progenitor of all gods, and therefore (by birth at least) highest in
geneological dignity, before the Titans and the Immortals. And though
Saturn was a lawgiver, it was Ouranus who gave breathed the first
breath of order into the universe. Although this sounds like a
slightly gnostic world view, I think it would have been more
acceptable to both Jews and Romans than most of the other
identifications (though the Romans may have historically implied
identification with Iuppiter when they tried to place his cult statue
inside the Jerusalem Temple).


-Lucius Iulius Kaelus
(Kaelus Iulius)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pat <p-mclaughlin@c...> wrote:
> At 09:39 PM 8/2/2004, you wrote:
> > > thinking of the lightning/thunder aspect, as well. Saturn,
Drusus?
> > > Why?
> > >
> > > valete,
> > >
> > > Cato
> >
> >Saturn was a Lawgiver and so was the Jewish God.
> >
> >Drusus
>
> Look at what day the Jewish Shabbat equates to.
>
> And I suspect that the Romans found the stern, rather dour
character of the
> Hebrew god more akin to Saturn than to Iuppiter. I suppose that
the Jewish
> Temple's association with money (money-lenders in the court, etc)
and money
> that could be ritually acceptable in offerings might have firmed up
the
> association with Saturn.
>
> Vale,
> Ursus

Salvete !


In German ?
You can send it to me.
I understand German.

Titus Apollonius Germanicus

----- Original Message -----
From: TiAnO
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; duemmelc@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


Salve,

Since I wrote an academic paper on this topic, I think that my ideas could be of interest to you. Unfortunately the paper is in German, so I don't think it makes sense to send it to you.

One of the main things you seemed to miss in your account of the changes that Marius brought to the army, is also the armament of the troops and the way to fight. Before Marius, there were different kinds of infantry-soldiers, depending on the class and wealth of the soldier. After Marius, there was only the classic legionary.

As you probably know, the weaponry and armory of each soldier before Marius, had to be paid by the soldier. After the reforms, the state had to see to it, that each legionary was completely equipped. This meant that in each camp, there had to be armories, blacksmiths and so on, in order to make sure that after each battle, the loricas, gladii and so on were replaced if lost or repaired.

For more information, please feel free to ask.

Vale bene, TiAnO



Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus of Nova Roma
Translator linguae Germanicae for Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris in Nova Roma
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Owner of the winning chariot in the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt or http://www.tylus.ch.tt

Citizen of the NRR




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and I come across an organization called Kemet .org. By the name you
can tell it has something to do with Egypt. It looks like the have
been around since 1994. They have established there 3rd real
temple/shrine. The buidling doesn't look all that grand on the
outside but they seem to take seriously there devotion to their Gods.

T.Arcanus Agricola

Salve

Gaius Modius Athanasius is absolutely right. Everything has to start at the grassroots level. I, too, am very active in my local pagan community but it wasn't always that way. When I started out sixteen years ago, there was nothing. Today, I am amazed at how far we have come and how much there is, but it took time, hard work and committment. Rome wasn't build in a day! :)

Vale

Maxima Valeria Messallina

AthanasiosofSpfd@... wrote:
Luci;

I am the founder, and current treasurer of the Miami Valley Pagan Alliance.

I am the liturgy coordinator for Dayton Pagan Pride Day.

I have conducted workshops at Summerland Gathering, Elysium Gathering, and
Pagan Spirit Gathering -- all of which were well attended.

I have performed public Roman Reconstructionist rituals at Pagan Festivals.

I spend almost every aspect of my life devoted to a Pagan/Religio endeavor.
I work so I can afford to focus on my Pagan community and the Roman community.
When I have time I pick up a book. I find myself on the phone frequently
either working on a project or helping somone in my local community with a
problem.

Ground work IS being done. Things ARE being done. But it is impossible to
be all places at once, and community has to start locally.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 8/3/2004 12:26:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lacedaemonius2004@... writes:
Salve, Caeser.
I mean reaching out to those in the pan-pagan community and
teaching. Real outreach not adhoc. No Hare Krishna stuff just basic
ground work. Teach lore, Stories. Stuff, We as a nation can do. Heck
most of you seem Smart, most, I bet You could come up with an action
plan way better then I can. About how we can build better then
sitting in a back water

The comment stands I am a nobody. Beyond my views on Ethic Roman
Virtues and Religio, I have no views. I am a citizen. The comment
about Money giver is thus, A money giver has a right to voice his
views.
I guess that You guys pay your taxes. Not my business. I hope You do,
but my right as a tax paying citizen gives me the right to express my
views. That is all i meant.
Luci


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Salvete Omnes,
several people here are joking about this argument and I'm quite
to have read stupid posts about the space-ports (we are not able to
live togheter in a mailing list and people are thinking yet to
conquer the moon ... strange and human!!!).
However I think this could be a good and serious topic.

> Fuscus, you might as well know about the truth of the matter. In

all

> likelihood, the administrative center for Nova Roma WILL be built

in

> the USA.

Why? this is not THE TRUTH and on contrary is quite un-historical
and illogical and wrong in my personal opinion.
Why an archeological and historical organization about the Ancient
Rome having goals about the conservation of the roman culture would
be built in a land where there aren't roman ruins, there isn't roman
culture, there aren't archeological projects, where the people must
to travel for thousands of kilometers to meet important public
istitutions giving it live projects, etc.?

Mine is not anti-americanism but I think we must to think about NR
like a common organization. Where NR could have more opportunities
to work and organize real and live projects on roman tresury?
If you take a popular academila book about economical sciences,
you'll find that the best thing for an organization (or society, or
group, etc. and first of all if it's small) is to be installed close
to the own target.

> Not because of ego or Ameri-centracism (is that actually a
> word?) but because we don't have any places the Romans actually

were

> here. We GOT NO Roman sites or ruins in the whole continent. You
> folks in Italia are surrounded by ruins and reconstructions of

actual

> Roman sites. You have groups and individuals (like TiAnO) who
> affiliate with those sites and get to have lots of fun among the
> villas, forts, vinyards, etc. We Americans are going to have to
> build it ourselves . . . from scratch.

And this is one of the best reason to choose no American places to
build our administrative center. In USA or Canada, etc. we will
never live the roman culture because wwould be too far from the
original places which could give more feelings and emotions.
And in any way we must think about the future and the well of our
organization and ask ourself what is the best solution to grow it.
The growth of NR means to raise more money, to build relationship
with important public istituitions, to create live projects
restoring roman ruins, to permit to our citizens to work in this
projects, to visit directly the places where our Fathers lived, to
work with the Offices managing this places, etc.

I know that this is very hard to be accepted by our american fellows
and it could seem "too european" ... but this is THE TRUTH! Everyone
here know that roman things are far from America and if we would
restore Roma Antiqua we couldn't build a faulse pantheon, a copy of
the colosseum, etc. This are ever copies and never the original. And
we wouldn't build a "roman disneyland" like the Caesar in Las Vegas.
This is not roman, this is not original, this is not traditionalism
and this is not reconstructionism. This is like the managers in Las
Vegas thinking that build a copy of Venice is like the original
Venice.
Only the original places could give us the real roman emotions and
restore the ancient virtutes.

> We got MILES & MILES OF MILES
> & MILES and it is near major highways & towns. We are not going

to

> look for land in the Balkans cause that place ain't been the same
> since the Illyrian Pirates had it. Poland may be good but you

never

> know when those Huns are going to overrun it again.

The large areas in USA are a good reason bu not enough. Why we
couldn't build the forum of NR too in the desert of Mexico, in the
forests of Canada or Brazil or Thule, or in North-Africa, or in a
greek island, or Australia, etc. The "miles" are not enough...

I wouldn't force you all to support the candidacy of Italy ;-)
... but I would give you an easy example.
My father have two very little pieces of land in the country close
to my city, in south-italy. In one of this we cultivate grape for
wine, the other is now empty. This second is exaclty in the center
of an ancient roman fort of the II cen. a.D., a wonderful place
where you can find little rests of roman amphoras in the land. If my
father will decide to sell this land, this could be a wonderful
place to build a very little nova roman forum.
Or again, in the country close to Rome there are several villas and
ancient buildings close to roman ruins. They're expansive but the
price is reasoned from the distance to the original places.
I'm sure that we could find similar locations in Spains, France,
Balcans, Germany, Britain, Belgium, Greece, Romania, etc.

> Now I am lucky to live in a city where we have a full replica of

the

> Parthenon and two major Greco-Roman public buildings but we can't

use

> them for Nova Roma (apart from the Video Shoot in October).

Sorry Aurelianus, with all the respect for you and yyour city, but I
think that a replica of the Parthenon is very sad ... ;-)
Have you seen the original Parthenon? Did it got you the same
emotions of the replica?
WOuld do you prefer live and work close to real greek building?


Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Thank you Caesar, I was beginning to feel ignored. However, you missed
the part where I link to a website explaining the Rayleigh scattering
which causes the sky to be blue.

-- Marinus

Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:

> Salve, Cato.
>
> Ok what about the "brass"? Well if you won't - I'm up for it:
>
> Marinus would cringe inwardly that someone had chosen such a
> provactive subject and would publically state that he was waiting for
> a Praetor to be appointed to check this out, but in a pinch might
> decide to look out of the window - if he really, really had to. He
> would not however issue a definitive yes or no as to blueness in case
> that caused further discord. Then he would then ask, not tell mind,
> ask you to apologise for raising the issue.
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
> wrote:
>
>>Actually, I just thought of this:
>>
>>Sulla would grant you that yes, the sky may be blue, but ONLY THE
>>SENATE can make any official decision regarding the color
>
> of...well,
>
>>anything, really.
>>
>>Cato
>>
>>Um, Fabius Maximus? I don't know if you realized this, but
>>superglue actually DOES make popsicle sticks stick...to horses...
>><cough>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

SAlvete Omnes,
for your information, the italian government is selling several
ancient and historical public locations. The State have public
buildings, archeological ruins, islands, monuments and
our "wonderful" administration decided to raise money selling them.
If I'm not wrong, in this list there aren't some roman archeological
places.
Maybe Nova Roma could be interested to buy one of this places to
build the own administrative center close to Roma...

However I don't how they many much, I suppose they would be a bit
exapnsive.

P.S.: As you can understand, I don't like and I disagree this
solution of the Berlusconi administration. This is a typical
occidental and (sorry, I have to say it... please aplogize me) bush-
oriented market's view thinking that the cutlure and the history of
a Nation are economical source first of all. As Fuscus said to
Drusus some days ago, in teh world there are different and better
points of view about the market. Luckly other alternative economical
systems exists and are possible... ;-) But this is only the opinion
of a little man in front of too "fat" and crazy men governing this
poor world ...

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Is it possible to read the list?
I'm interested to contribute in the "historical shopping".
Valete

Quintus Fabius Alectus

-------Messaggio originale-------

Da: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: 08/03/04 13:36:00
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] The administrative center [ex Re: Why is it that....
Aurelianus to Fuscus]

SAlvete Omnes,
for your information, the italian government is selling several
ancient and historical public locations. The State have public
buildings, archeological ruins, islands, monuments and
our "wonderful" administration decided to raise money selling them.
If I'm not wrong, in this list there aren't some roman archeological
places.
Maybe Nova Roma could be interested to buy one of this places to
build the own administrative center close to Roma...

However I don't how they many much, I suppose they would be a bit
exapnsive.

P.S.: As you can understand, I don't like and I disagree this
solution of the Berlusconi administration. This is a typical
occidental and (sorry, I have to say it... please aplogize me) bush-
oriented market's view thinking that the cutlure and the history of
a Nation are economical source first of all. As Fuscus said to
Drusus some days ago, in teh world there are different and better
points of view about the market. Luckly other alternative economical
systems exists and are possible... ;-) But this is only the opinion
of a little man in front of too "fat" and crazy men governing this
poor world ...

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar



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AVETE QUIRITES

Here follows last question and relative answer from prof S.
Giorcelli about Latin Epigraphy, for our project "Interview the
Expert".

VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Rector Academiae Italicae


Manius Constantinus Serapio:
What are those things we know only from epigraphy with no other
source?

The fundamental contributions which epigraphic documents brought to
our knowledge of Roman
history are many. I can only write a list and make some significant
examples.

I. The Romanisation, i.e. the impressive expansion process of Roman
civilization, both in the
East and in particular in the West, by which a systematic process of
political and cultural
integration of a conquered population took place. While we know the
military and diplomatic
steps of the conquest thanks to literary sources, we also know the
varied and complex mechanism
of expansion of the Roman institutions within the conquered
territories only through epigraphic
documents. For example: Inscriptions tell us about the mediating
work of certain persons who, in
particular in the East, attempted to defend their motherland from
the arrogant meddling of Roman
governors. Inscriptions attest the various ways Rome acted within
the military occupied territories
(as in Hispania), which caused the elimination or deportation of
local populations; in the founding
of colonies and in the distribution of parcels of land to the
colonists. In Italy Alpine populations
were reformed to administrative and jurisdictional Roman structures
following different methods
and charters which we know thanks solely to epigraphic documents.
We understand the reorganization of the rural territory in the
context of the colonization thanks to
aerial photography, but also because of those inscriptions telling
the names of the people who
made surveys, those inscriptions documenting the close relationship
between the colonies, the
military and roads, those epigraphs identifying small rural
settlements around the territory
(such settlements being not even identifiable archaeologically
today). Epigraphy also allows us to
know about disputes (mostly territorial ones) between Romans and
native populations and, in
general, about incidents of resistance to Romanisation. Finally,
epigraphic documentation records
the passage from local languages to Latin. First there is the
coexistence of two languages, then the
use of the Latin alphabet to write the native language, then the use
of Latin with more or less
visible traces of local elements, and finally the normalization of
writing, at this point conceived in
the Latin way, where only the persistence of local linguistic
rudiments indicates a link with
previous tradition.

II. In the case of City structures and urban civilization, the most
visible cultural manifestation is
the epigraphy. We know of the urban civilization mostly thanks to
the inscriptions. They played
the role of a mass medium, the way to spread public and private
messages. It was the main mean
of interpersonal communication, so it is not surprising to notice a
prevailing concentration within
the city. The knowledge of the urban area too often is the fruit of
epigraphic documentation. A
high amount of inscriptions often is the sole clue of the existence
of a city settlement, while within
already individuated cities it is possible to find out the
existence -without excavations- of
functional areas of relevant importance (e.g. sanctuaries or
religious spaces). Through the
inscriptions found on them we know the name of a number of
buildings, their destination, the
name and title of those who had them built, with whose money and
why. In some cases we know
a building existed by only the relevant inscription which has
survived..
Private homes are identifiable through brick stamps, water conduits
on which the name of the
owner was written, and boundary stones, sacred or honorary
inscriptions which can be found
inside.
Funeral and honorary inscriptions are the most numerous sources to
define many aspects of urban
society. The political careers of the citizens and in general the
leadership of the notables are
largely represented, as well as the role of imperial legates and of
patrons.
The picture is completed by decurional decrees, i.e. the decisions
taken within the curia of the city
(often imitating Rome's Senatus Consulta), and municipal laws, i.e.
the constitutions which
regulated the functioning of the city institutions. The latter in
particular are a new element: we
have a lot of fragments of municipal laws concerning several cities
of Spain (Salpensa, Malaca and
Irni), dating back to Domitian's reign (81-96 A.C.), which give us a
lot of details about local
justice, management of community goods, collection of taxes, public
activities, patron/client
relationships and the diplomatic relationship with the emperor or
with the governor of the
province, legations, magistrates' duties, magistrate's election
systems, and more. No literary
source could provide us with information about these aspects of the
Roman citizen's life.

III. Discovering the Historiography of individuals. Epigraphs, both
honorary and funeral, tells us
the biography and the public and private profile of the people, both
the elite (senators, equites and
city aristocracies) and simple folk (citizens without any public
role, workers, women, children,
freedmen, slaves). As to senators and equites we know their careers
which obviously changed as
the time went on. We can follow the steps and the transformations of
such careers thank hundreds
inscriptions at our disposal. Also we know local notables, i.e. the
upper class of the civic body
holding economic power and monopolizing public offices. The analysis
of their very wide
epigraphic documentation allows us to understand, for example, how
was it possible to climb the
social pyramid, which offices were considered a privileged position
of the political way, through
which conduct and financial means allowed the families more
opportunities to keep and increase
their prestige and power.
The most original information concerns the lower social class, which
are not represented in
literary sources (but in part in archaeological ones, at least as to
material life aspects), so slaves,
from those employed in rich houses to wretched men working in the
mines, tradesmen and
artisans, the slave and freed staff at the emperor's service, women,
members of collegia and
professional, religious, funeral and game corporations.
It is in this viewpoint of social representation, that Latin
epigraphy represents all of its
documentary potential.

G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

Well, I was in the middle of writing a blurb on our Consul, but
then my cable went out and it was lost :-( I remember laughing, so
it was probably humorous, and when I remember the whole thing...


I understand how the antics of Iuppiter might have not been so easy
to equate with the God of Israel from the Jews' or Chrisians' point
of view, but I wouldn't think the Romans would really care. The
idea of Him having given the law and thus being equal to Saturn
makes sense, as the Romans considered the law to be such a
significant item. Then again, I could simply be falling into
the "Stern Older Man With White Beard Sitting Upon a Throne"
syndrome of classification.


OH WAIT I remembered!

Marinus will poke his head in to announce that he's only going to
announce whether or not the sky is blue because there's just no-one
else who has the imperium to do so right now and so he's only
acting "in loco announcer" --- and that everyone should apologize to
everyone else if they wouldn't mind.


Iulius Kaelus, I need to remind you that the horse DOES have a name:
it's Nichomacus. I call him "Nick". Actually, I call him "sir".

valete,

Cato




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Thank you Caesar, I was beginning to feel ignored. However, you

missed

> the part where I link to a website explaining the Rayleigh

scattering

> which causes the sky to be blue.
>
> -- Marinus

I read an article that claimed Jove(I think that is the same as Iupiter) has some connection to YHWH or Jehovah(sp). Of course the article could be based on the fact that Jove and Jehovah(sp) simply sound alike.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kaelus Iulius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 1:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saturn-YHWH (was: Resignation)


YHWH would have undoubtedly been equated with either Saturn or
Ouranus. There is little recorded about Ouranus, but he is confirmed
as the original ruler of the heavens, and indeed, was identified as
the personification of that plane itself. Additionally, he is the
progenitor of all gods, and therefore (by birth at least) highest in
geneological dignity, before the Titans and the Immortals. And though
Saturn was a lawgiver, it was Ouranus who gave breathed the first
breath of order into the universe. Although this sounds like a
slightly gnostic world view, I think it would have been more
acceptable to both Jews and Romans than most of the other
identifications (though the Romans may have historically implied
identification with Iuppiter when they tried to place his cult statue
inside the Jerusalem Temple).



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Ditto" a famous latin phrase that means I agree.

T.Arcanus Agricola

----- Original Message -----
From: lacedaemonius2004
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:17 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation



Salve Caesar,
No I donot Support any Change in State or private worship. More out
reach and Also in the Methods of Worship. I.e. more worship centers
and methods of worship. The Format of those worship would be
Traditional but done in a diffrent route.
What do I mean, More Temples, in the RW. More Lay leaders and more
minor Priest/ess. In Real World locations. More Religio Teachers
teaching the beliefs. I am not saying "lets say Mars is a laid back
surfer dude" . I want to see Religio out in the World. Big.
Luci


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pat <p-mclaughlin@c...> wrote:

> Salve Drusus,
>
> Quibbling being a high art here...
>
> I feel obliged to point out that AA is not the only province with

its own

> spaceport (I will grant that it is the most developed one).
> And the weather is better in California (ye gods, your humidity!).

DRUSUS: That Humidity is just part of living near Iupiter here in the
Gods country. Rain and humidity go along with Thunder and Lighting.

> Not to mention that most of the plausible sites here would be above sea
> level through the next couple centuries. Much of AA may not be.

DRUSUS: Above Water until the Big One hits, then it's the big splash!

Land out there is just too expensive, unless we go for the Lex Luthor
land development plan from the first Superman movie. Anyone know where
we can get a few Nukes?

Salve Illustrus Fabius Alectus,

> Is it possible to read the list?
> I'm interested to contribute in the "historical shopping".

A group of private citizens managed by academical professors and no-
profit organization created a website for the protection of the
cultural and historical italian patrimony:
http://www.patrimoniosos.it
I'm sorry but this is in italian... Here you could find the
monuments in danger.

In truth, the worries and doubts of several italians come from teh
creation of a national society, the Patrimonio S.p.A., specialized
in the sell of the public patrinomy. The italian government is
passing to this private national society several monuments and the
management of some interesting area. At the beginning a decretum was
published within a full list of "available" monuments. For example I
could remember that in this list there was the final column of the
Via Appia in Brindisi (the ancient Brundisium). The problem is about
the management of some area too.
For example the Patrimonio S.p.A. is permitting the construction of
houses in an archeological area with several roman ruins close to
Recanati (Center Italy).
The situation seemes to be under control after the declaration of
our President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi defending the cultural and
historical patrimony of Italy.
However in the latest financial measures the Berlusconi
administration seems to re-take the possibility to sell a little
part of the public historical patrimony. I didn't seen the last
laws, but several people are worried again.

Vale
FAC

Cato;

Lets not forget Marcus Cassius Julianus:

I noticed that the sky looked blue, but I have been too busy with work and
other stuff I can't recal to take the time to think about it. Maybe tommorrow I
will get around to thinking about the sky. What were we talking about...

This is fun... :)

[Note: I'm just kidding...]

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 8/3/2004 9:47:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:
G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

Well, I was in the middle of writing a blurb on our Consul, but
then my cable went out and it was lost :-( I remember laughing, so
it was probably humorous, and when I remember the whole thing...


I understand how the antics of Iuppiter might have not been so easy
to equate with the God of Israel from the Jews' or Chrisians' point
of view, but I wouldn't think the Romans would really care. The
idea of Him having given the law and thus being equal to Saturn
makes sense, as the Romans considered the law to be such a
significant item. Then again, I could simply be falling into
the "Stern Older Man With White Beard Sitting Upon a Throne"
syndrome of classification.


OH WAIT I remembered!

Marinus will poke his head in to announce that he's only going to
announce whether or not the sky is blue because there's just no-one
else who has the imperium to do so right now and so he's only
acting "in loco announcer" --- and that everyone should apologize to
everyone else if they wouldn't mind.


Iulius Kaelus, I need to remind you that the horse DOES have a name:
it's Nichomacus. I call him "Nick". Actually, I call him "sir".

valete,

Cato


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> SAlvete Omnes,
> for your information, the italian government is selling several
> ancient and historical public locations. The State have public
> buildings, archeological ruins, islands, monuments and
> our "wonderful" administration decided to raise money selling them.
> If I'm not wrong, in this list there aren't some roman archeological
> places.
> Maybe Nova Roma could be interested to buy one of this places to
> build the own administrative center close to Roma...
>
> However I don't how they many much, I suppose they would be a bit
> exapnsive.
>
> P.S.: As you can understand, I don't like and I disagree this
> solution of the Berlusconi administration. This is a typical
> occidental and (sorry, I have to say it... please aplogize me) bush-
> oriented market's view thinking that the cutlure and the history of
> a Nation are economical source first of all. As Fuscus said to
> Drusus some days ago, in teh world there are different and better
> points of view about the market. Luckly other alternative economical
> systems exists and are possible... ;-) But this is only the opinion
> of a little man in front of too "fat" and crazy men governing this
> poor world ...
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

Preserving Culture and History aren't free, it costs money. That is a
fact that even nation-states can't evade forever. If you don't have
the funding you can't do it. That is the cold hard reality, and that
is a "law" that can't be repealled by any government. It can be evaded
for a time by borrowing, but sooner or later reality will catch up
with you.

Oh you are wrong about Berlusconi taking a Bush-oriented approach. If
he was doing that he would be blowing money he dosen't have, running
up a debt that will have to be paid one day, to keep those properities
he's selling off. ;-)

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
> several people here are joking about this argument and I'm quite
> to have read stupid posts about the space-ports (we are not able to
> live togheter in a mailing list and people are thinking yet to
> conquer the moon ... strange and human!!!).

Ave,

I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what could be
more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province that has
the World's finest Space Port?

Drusus ;-)

hello i am not a student of history but i am intereted in it,
can you send me recommendations of literature on the subject of
roman armies?

thank you mally2025
______________________________________________________________
Herbalife Independent Distributor http://www.healthiest.co.za

Grazie!!!
Mea domus in Mediolanum!!!

-------Messaggio originale-------

Da: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: 08/03/04 15:42:07
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: Rif: [Nova-Roma] The administrative center [ex Re: Why is it that..
..Aurelianus to Fuscus]

Salve Illustrus Fabius Alectus,

> Is it possible to read the list?
> I'm interested to contribute in the "historical shopping".

A group of private citizens managed by academical professors and no-
profit organization created a website for the protection of the
cultural and historical italian patrimony:
http://www.patrimoniosos.it
I'm sorry but this is in italian... Here you could find the
monuments in danger.

In truth, the worries and doubts of several italians come from teh
creation of a national society, the Patrimonio S.p.A., specialized
in the sell of the public patrinomy. The italian government is
passing to this private national society several monuments and the
management of some interesting area. At the beginning a decretum was
published within a full list of "available" monuments. For example I
could remember that in this list there was the final column of the
Via Appia in Brindisi (the ancient Brundisium). The problem is about
the management of some area too.
For example the Patrimonio S.p.A. is permitting the construction of
houses in an archeological area with several roman ruins close to
Recanati (Center Italy).
The situation seemes to be under control after the declaration of
our President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi defending the cultural and
historical patrimony of Italy.
However in the latest financial measures the Berlusconi
administration seems to re-take the possibility to sell a little
part of the public historical patrimony. I didn't seen the last
laws, but several people are worried again.

Vale
FAC



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.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senator Drusus,

first of all let me say thank you for your answer, this is agood way
to discuss about macro-problem interesting Nova Roma as world
organization.

> Preserving Culture and History aren't free, it costs money. That

is a

> fact that even nation-states can't evade forever. If you don't have
> the funding you can't do it. That is the cold hard reality, and

that

> is a "law" that can't be repealled by any government. It can be

evaded

> for a time by borrowing, but sooner or later reality will catch up
> with you.

Yes, I agree that the preservation and the management of the Culture
and History is quite exapansive and hard. This is an hard problem
for all the Nations and firtly for the Italy having 70% of the world
artistical patrimony. However I think that the selling of monuments
and buildings and areas is not a good solution because they have
more than an economical value, they exist in the cultural memory of
the citizens. And the memory and the culture of the population is
most important than the money. The State must to defense it and the
its elements avoiding to act like a private society.
There are alternative solutions. F.e. in Italy the private
sponsorship of cultural and artistical events started since few
time. The private use of the public doens't mean ever the selling,
the buildings can be rented or taken in management.
As I said in Italy there is the 70% of the artistical and historical
patrimony of the world (dates by UNESCO). This is an enourmous
economical source. In Britain, Germany, Belgium, etc the
admistrations build full cultural parks around an alone roman stone.
Here we have full and perfect original roman cities and we're not
able to preserve them... Why? Because we try to manage a Nation like
a private society, in my personal opinion.
</sadness>

> Oh you are wrong about Berlusconi taking a Bush-oriented approach.

If

> he was doing that he would be blowing money he dosen't have,

running

> up a debt that will have to be paid one day, to keep those

properities

> he's selling off. ;-)

Senator, maybe I wrong, I don't know exactly the politics by Bush as
you don't perfectly the administration by Mr. Berlusconi. In any way
I agree that he have the hard problem of the public debt: we have
the third public debt of the world but we are not the 3rd Nation in
the world.
However I don't like his methods, firstly if something like the
cultural and historical memories of the Nation are selled
... but as I said I'm a little man in front of this topics and of
course this is off-topic.

Vale
FAC

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeianus <ajorlor@y...> wrote:

> But the problem is more complicated than that. Some of you could say

that buying 108 acres the problem is solved. The problem, from my
point of view, resides in what will pass once that land is bought. The
place that is chosen to buy the earth will make that the provincia
where it is acquires a different status to that of the rest.

This is an easy problem to solve. Simply place the Forum in the
Province that is allready the best in Nova Roma (America
Austrorientalis) and you maintain the current status. ;-)

Drusus

Salve Senator Drusus,

> I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what could be
> more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province that has
> the World's finest Space Port?
>
> Drusus ;-)

Oh, I understood your joke and I could candidate the China as the
next most important Space Conquerer too ... And not forget the
growing european ESA, the official european space agency ;-)

However what I meaned is that I have read maybe 10-12 posts about
this joke and I think it's a waste of time. Maybe you all could use
your time not for joke or unpolite and unuseful discussions, you
could use it to write a message about the roman History or the
latest archeological news, or to organize a live event or to find a
solution for a real archeological project, or to promote the
knowledgment of the Religio Romana, etc ... ;-)

Vale bene
FAC

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I agree that the preservation and the management of the Culture
> and History is quite exapansive and hard. This is an hard problem
> for all the Nations and firtly for the Italy having 70% of the world
> artistical patrimony.

DRUSUS: My view on this is simple. The Treasures of the ancient world
are the common heiritage of Western Civilization and all western
nations should help defray the costs of preserving them. I View the
modern nations of Italy, of Greece, of Iraq, of Egypt, and all others
where these priceless artifacts were created as the natural custodians
of our common inheirtance, and am VERY opposed to the looting of these
treasures to fill far away museums and private collections. They mean
far less when they are taken out of their historic context and placed
in a building hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Getting this international support is made harder by the attitude that
these are just the national treasures of the nation they are located
in, and nothing more. They are far more than just the national
treasures of Italy, of Greece, and of the other nations they happen to
be located in. As long as these nations maintain the attitude that
they OWN them rather than that they are the custodians of the shared
inheritance of Western civilization they will make it easier for other
nations to avoid the responsibility of helping to preserve these
artifacts that are just as important to their culture as to that of
the nation they happen to be located in.

L. Sicinius Drusus

Salve Druse et al.,

First of all, thank you to have read the message. I won't value the importance of each provincia or if one is better than another, mainly because I don't have the necessary elements to make it.

However, although I recognize that you have written a joke, I cannot stop to see certain disturbing problems in it. As I have understood, the relationship among the provinciae of Nova Roma is through equality -at least, I don't know any type of classification. As I have said in the previous mail, to create a physical forum for all Nova Roma, would have in short, as direct consequence, the invigoration of a provinciae with regard to the other ones. In fact, That forum will be the place of the Senate, and when we will think in the senate, we will have the provinciae as a guide. Has somebody thought about how should be structured the relationships of the rest of provinciae with the provincia that will have the forum? would not be better to continue maintaining the virtual character of Nova Roma in this case, like an answer to the multiplicity of people that they form it? Would not be better to think the forum like the work of a single provincia that it doesn't involve to the rest of
Nova Roma? -for example as Magna Mater Project-. If some provincia wants to have a land and if she has enough money, then she buys it. But as the project of a provincia, not of all Nova Roma.

Vale bene,

Pompeianus.



---------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gai Modi;
I think rather that it is the Boni that do not permit diversity of
opinion, really I have many friends in NR who do not always agree
with me ; and we agree to disagree publicly & privately.
I do not possess a separate list, where I promise not to publicly
criticize someone else.
If I post usually it will be 1)q.fabius maximus 2)drusus 3)you ,
4) gnaeus Caesar, ....all boni who line up and reply. my friends
don't do that as we value differing opinions & diversity.

as for your ameliorative behavior, I remember just recently you
called Fuscus 'an Enemy of the Gods'.....
frankly i'm happier not to publicly associate my self with such
behavior....so thanks for expelling me.
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

Propraetrix Hiberniae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:

> Salve Senator Drusus,
>
> > I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what could be
> > more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province that has
> > the World's finest Space Port?
> >
> > Drusus ;-)
>
> Oh, I understood your joke and I could candidate the China as the
> next most important Space Conquerer too ... And not forget the
> growing european ESA, the official european space agency ;-)
>
> However what I meaned is that I have read maybe 10-12 posts about
> this joke and I think it's a waste of time. Maybe you all could use
> your time not for joke or unpolite and unuseful discussions, you
> could use it to write a message about the roman History or the
> latest archeological news, or to organize a live event or to find a
> solution for a real archeological project, or to promote the
> knowledgment of the Religio Romana, etc ... ;-)
>

The Humor defused a situation that could have led to a big argument
over where we are going to build a Forum that we don't even have the
funds for a downpayment on.

Don't we have enough arguments on this list without starting one over
something that we can't afford to do at the present time?

L. Sicinius Drusus
(Resident of the Gods Favorite Province) ;-)

G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

Once again I am stunned to find myself in agreement with my
erstwhile Nemesis, the Senator from the South :-)

The building of a forum is perfectly within the rights of any
Province, and if a Province finds itself in a position to do so, it
would certainly be a delightful step forward. The question of where
the New Capitol would be (the administrative center of the State) is
so far beyond our scope right now that it is sort of pointless to
argue over. Besides which, if anyone gets first dibs on the
Capitol, it's the Center of the Known Universe, New York City. I
mean, we've got the rats, the garbage, the filthy rivers, the noise,
the mind-numbing population numbers, the inhuman weather, the
gladiatorial combat (think Yankees vs. Mets) --- we're practically
ancient Rome reborn already.

valete,

Cato
Resident of the Gods' Hometown

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:
> > Salve Senator Drusus,
> >
> > > I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what
could be
> > > more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province
that has
> > > the World's finest Space Port?
> > >
> > > Drusus ;-)
> >
> > Oh, I understood your joke and I could candidate the China as
the
> > next most important Space Conquerer too ... And not forget the
> > growing european ESA, the official european space agency ;-)
> >
> > However what I meaned is that I have read maybe 10-12 posts
about
> > this joke and I think it's a waste of time. Maybe you all could
use
> > your time not for joke or unpolite and unuseful discussions, you
> > could use it to write a message about the roman History or the
> > latest archeological news, or to organize a live event or to
find a
> > solution for a real archeological project, or to promote the
> > knowledgment of the Religio Romana, etc ... ;-)
> >
>
> The Humor defused a situation that could have led to a big argument
> over where we are going to build a Forum that we don't even have
the
> funds for a downpayment on.
>
> Don't we have enough arguments on this list without starting one
over
> something that we can't afford to do at the present time?
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> (Resident of the Gods Favorite Province) ;-)

Salve citizens,

It's good to be back online! Last week my family (husband, three
cats) and I made the drive from Oregon to Texas to set up our new
villa in Austin. I am still feeling grateful to the gods that we all
made it safely. We drove through the desert in late July - not
something cats (and people like me) usually like.

As we crossed the state line in to Texas, I was surprised at how
green everything was. Unusually heavy rains have left the landscape
relatively lush, and we felt right at home.

Our route took us straight through Culberson County, Texas. While I
don't know the exact location of the ager publicus, I admit I felt a
bit of a pull driving through there, as if it was nearby, just
around the next bend or over the next hill. I found myself looking
for a Nova Roma flag, even though we rarely strayed from Highway 10.

All this is to say that I am happy to be living as close to it as I
now am, and to renew my offer to help create a real Nova Roman
community there.

vale bene,
Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia

Salve Pompeianus,

In this case I think we will have to do the same thing the United
States did when it was faced with the problem of which State it's
National Capital would be located in. The Forum and the Area around it
wouldn't be a part of any Province, it would be a seperate district
like the District of Columbia that The United States capital of
Washington is located in.

The Forum and an area around it, say a radius of 20 miles, will be
removed from the Province and become a seperate district called Latium
that is directly controlled by the Nova Roman Government. Roma wasn't
a part of any Province, and Nova Roma's Forum Area shouldn't be either.

Of Course America Austrorientalis being the Gods favorite province is
the logical one to give up this land for the forum. ;-)

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeianus <ajorlor@y...> wrote:
> Salve Druse et al.,
>
> First of all, thank you to have read the message. I won't value the
importance of each provincia or if one is better than another, mainly
because I don't have the necessary elements to make it.
>
> However, although I recognize that you have written a joke, I cannot
stop to see certain disturbing problems in it. As I have understood,
the relationship among the provinciae of Nova Roma is through equality
-at least, I don't know any type of classification. As I have said in
the previous mail, to create a physical forum for all Nova Roma, would
have in short, as direct consequence, the invigoration of a provinciae
with regard to the other ones. In fact, That forum will be the place
of the Senate, and when we will think in the senate, we will have the
provinciae as a guide. Has somebody thought about how should be
structured the relationships of the rest of provinciae with the
provincia that will have the forum? would not be better to continue
maintaining the virtual character of Nova Roma in this case, like an
answer to the multiplicity of people that they form it? Would not be
better to think the forum like the work of a single provincia that it
doesn't involve to the rest of
> Nova Roma? -for example as Magna Mater Project-. If some provincia
wants to have a land and if she has enough money, then she buys it.
But as the project of a provincia, not of all Nova Roma.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Pompeianus.

Salve Drusus,
the answer is very easy and I'm quite surprised that you didn't
uinderstood it. ;-)

The answer is ... because this treasures are inside the culture and
history of a population.
If you move the Colosseum or a paint of Michelangelo or a statue of
Leonardo or the Cappella Sistina or the Valley of Temples or Pompeii
or a roman arch from Italy to another place, you would be hurting
the Culture and the memory of a Nation. This happened when the
Gioconda will be moved to Paris or when we hear that Columbus
(Cristoforo Colombo is the correct name) is american or spanish.
I think you would feel the same offense if an italian come in NY and
move the Statue of Liberty in Milan. How do you feel? I suppose sad
and hurted because a part of your cultural background was taken.
And this is why several Nations like France and Italy are iving back
famous monuments to the original owners (look the columns in Place
de la Concorde in Paris to Egypt and the colums in Rome to Somalia).
So, I think the Nations are oriented to be the natural "custodians"
because their monuments and artistical treasures are the heritage of
the national culture and their location is the most natural.

In fact I never would see the Statue of Liberty in Melbourne or the
Inca's pyramids in Spain or the barcelona's buildings of Gaudi in
Los Angeles... because they're perfect in the place where they
weren'r created. :-)
I'm quite sure that you'ld receive the same answer from all the
people leaving in a State with an important and own culture.

Yes, I agree, the cultural and historical patrimony of a Nation is
of all the World (and not only of the Western world...) but the
natural location is Nation "created" it.
So if the USA administration think that the conservation of the
statue of David is important for the own culture, the best solution
should help the Nation hosting the statue to preservate it with
projects and jobs there. F.e. Whashington could officially invite
the Microsoft to sponsor the conservation of the paintings by Van
Gogh in Amsterdam. ;-)

Vale
FAC

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, I agree that the preservation and the management of the
Culture
> > and History is quite exapansive and hard. This is an hard
problem
> > for all the Nations and firtly for the Italy having 70% of the
world
> > artistical patrimony.
>
> DRUSUS: My view on this is simple. The Treasures of the ancient
world
> are the common heiritage of Western Civilization and all western
> nations should help defray the costs of preserving them. I View the
> modern nations of Italy, of Greece, of Iraq, of Egypt, and all
others
> where these priceless artifacts were created as the natural
custodians
> of our common inheirtance, and am VERY opposed to the looting of
these
> treasures to fill far away museums and private collections. They
mean
> far less when they are taken out of their historic context and
placed
> in a building hundreds or thousands of miles away.
>
> Getting this international support is made harder by the attitude
that
> these are just the national treasures of the nation they are
located
> in, and nothing more. They are far more than just the national
> treasures of Italy, of Greece, and of the other nations they
happen to
> be located in. As long as these nations maintain the attitude that
> they OWN them rather than that they are the custodians of the
shared
> inheritance of Western civilization they will make it easier for
other
> nations to avoid the responsibility of helping to preserve these
> artifacts that are just as important to their culture as to that of
> the nation they happen to be located in.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

Salve Apulius,

You misunderstood me, I'm VERY opposed to removing artifacts, to go
even farther the ones that were removed in the past should be restored
to their natural locations. This includes both international transfers
such as returning the Parthanon Marbles to Athens, and local ones such
as returning the Senate Doors in the Latern Church to their original
location in the Curia.

You are the curators of the Roman Heiritage, not the owners of it. As
long as you insist on acting like the owners other nations will
continue to have the attitude of if you own it you pay for it.

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Drusus,
> the answer is very easy and I'm quite surprised that you didn't
> uinderstood it. ;-)
>
> The answer is ... because this treasures are inside the culture and
> history of a population.
> If you move the Colosseum or a paint of Michelangelo or a statue of
> Leonardo or the Cappella Sistina or the Valley of Temples or Pompeii
> or a roman arch from Italy to another place, you would be hurting
> the Culture and the memory of a Nation. This happened when the
> Gioconda will be moved to Paris or when we hear that Columbus
> (Cristoforo Colombo is the correct name) is american or spanish.
> I think you would feel the same offense if an italian come in NY and
> move the Statue of Liberty in Milan. How do you feel? I suppose sad
> and hurted because a part of your cultural background was taken.
> And this is why several Nations like France and Italy are iving back
> famous monuments to the original owners (look the columns in Place
> de la Concorde in Paris to Egypt and the colums in Rome to Somalia).
> So, I think the Nations are oriented to be the natural "custodians"
> because their monuments and artistical treasures are the heritage of
> the national culture and their location is the most natural.
>
> In fact I never would see the Statue of Liberty in Melbourne or the
> Inca's pyramids in Spain or the barcelona's buildings of Gaudi in
> Los Angeles... because they're perfect in the place where they
> weren'r created. :-)
> I'm quite sure that you'ld receive the same answer from all the
> people leaving in a State with an important and own culture.
>
> Yes, I agree, the cultural and historical patrimony of a Nation is
> of all the World (and not only of the Western world...) but the
> natural location is Nation "created" it.
> So if the USA administration think that the conservation of the
> statue of David is important for the own culture, the best solution
> should help the Nation hosting the statue to preservate it with
> projects and jobs there. F.e. Whashington could officially invite
> the Microsoft to sponsor the conservation of the paintings by Van
> Gogh in Amsterdam. ;-)
>
> Vale
> FAC
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yes, I agree that the preservation and the management of the
> Culture
> > > and History is quite exapansive and hard. This is an hard
> problem
> > > for all the Nations and firtly for the Italy having 70% of the
> world
> > > artistical patrimony.
> >
> > DRUSUS: My view on this is simple. The Treasures of the ancient
> world
> > are the common heiritage of Western Civilization and all western
> > nations should help defray the costs of preserving them. I View the
> > modern nations of Italy, of Greece, of Iraq, of Egypt, and all
> others
> > where these priceless artifacts were created as the natural
> custodians
> > of our common inheirtance, and am VERY opposed to the looting of
> these
> > treasures to fill far away museums and private collections. They
> mean
> > far less when they are taken out of their historic context and
> placed
> > in a building hundreds or thousands of miles away.
> >
> > Getting this international support is made harder by the attitude
> that
> > these are just the national treasures of the nation they are
> located
> > in, and nothing more. They are far more than just the national
> > treasures of Italy, of Greece, and of the other nations they
> happen to
> > be located in. As long as these nations maintain the attitude that
> > they OWN them rather than that they are the custodians of the
> shared
> > inheritance of Western civilization they will make it easier for
> other
> > nations to avoid the responsibility of helping to preserve these
> > artifacts that are just as important to their culture as to that of
> > the nation they happen to be located in.
> >
> > L. Sicinius Drusus

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying? Are you saying
that we should not try and erect roman buildings in other countries
without previous roman occupancy? That any temples that are built
would simply be cheap knock-offs to you, if they are not the real
actual temple? I am using that as an example.
From what I understand, unless you have a building on private land,
most of these historical sites are not particularly easy to get
access to for individual groups. And I certainly doubt that any
government would like Nova Roma laying claim to them. I am sure it
would go over well if Nova Roma was claiming every major structure as
being it's, simply because they need one and their it is. Simply an
example.
Many of the temples are in ruins, and from pictures I have seen I
seriously doubt that they could be functioning temples without ALOT
of restoration, restoration that probably would not be able to
happen. The truth of the matter is no matter where you are at you
would have to do some building, alot of building. Not just in
America, anywhere.
Personally I don't care where the Forum is, so long as no one's head
swells to unproportioned size because it is where they are at (ie no
one I am better then you nener nener nener), in fact I would
personally hope that eventually there would be several centers on
different continents at least. And no matter where it is at there are
going to be copies!
Personally I think that the goal could be for any country. it is a
reconstruction of the culture, and no where is going to be less
authentic then another place as we are all Romans here.

As for me I will build what I can where i am at, as that is certainly
the Roman thing to do. If you don't believe me.. look at the roman
ruins all over europe *lol*

Lucia Modia Lupa



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
> several people here are joking about this argument and I'm quite
> to have read stupid posts about the space-ports (we are not able to
> live togheter in a mailing list and people are thinking yet to
> conquer the moon ... strange and human!!!).
> However I think this could be a good and serious topic.
>
> > Fuscus, you might as well know about the truth of the matter. In
> all
> > likelihood, the administrative center for Nova Roma WILL be built
> in
> > the USA.
>

Absolutely. The looting of ancient artifacts from it's country of
origin is very disturbing. As a child I read of Ephesus and how
columns from the temple were taken back to Italy and built into a
church, and of course the first reaction I had was.. well that
stupid. Tear that thing down and give the stupid columns back to
Turkey. I absolutely believe that artifacts belong in their country
of origin, but that it should not just be that country that is
responsible for teh welfare of the items and perserving them. It is
the heritage of teh western world, and we too should be responsible
for it's care (though not have possession of it).

Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> Salve Apulius,
>
> You misunderstood me, I'm VERY opposed to removing artifacts, to go
> even farther the ones that were removed in the past should be
restored
> to their natural locations. This includes both international
transfers
> such as returning the Parthanon Marbles to Athens, and local ones
such
> as returning the Senate Doors in the Latern Church to their original
> location in the Curia.
>
> You are the curators of the Roman Heiritage, not the owners of it.
As
> long as you insist on acting like the owners other nations will
> continue to have the attitude of if you own it you pay for it.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus

I would statrt with Greece and Rome at War by Peter Connolly. an excellent
book, and a must have for Ancient Military studies, IMHO. Also, reading the
Annals and Histories by Tacitus is very enlightening and gives the
perspective of someone who lived during some very violent and turbulent
times of the Empire.
-----Original Message-----
From: mally ka [mailto:mally2025@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:54 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Roman History Opinions


hello i am not a student of history but i am intereted in it,
can you send me recommendations of literature on the subject of
roman armies?

thank you mally2025
______________________________________________________________
Herbalife Independent Distributor http://www.healthiest.co.za

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well put, Senator. Perhaps we all need to step back and look at ourselves
sometimes with humor and smooth things over. IMHO, that is never a waste of
time or bandwidth.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobbins [mailto:drusus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:53 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why is it that.....Aurelianus to Fuscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Senator Drusus,
>
> > I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what could be
> > more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province that has
> > the World's finest Space Port?
> >
> > Drusus ;-)
>
> Oh, I understood your joke and I could candidate the China as the
> next most important Space Conquerer too ... And not forget the
> growing european ESA, the official european space agency ;-)
>
> However what I meaned is that I have read maybe 10-12 posts about
> this joke and I think it's a waste of time. Maybe you all could use
> your time not for joke or unpolite and unuseful discussions, you
> could use it to write a message about the roman History or the
> latest archeological news, or to organize a live event or to find a
> solution for a real archeological project, or to promote the
> knowledgment of the Religio Romana, etc ... ;-)
>

The Humor defused a situation that could have led to a big argument
over where we are going to build a Forum that we don't even have the
funds for a downpayment on.

Don't we have enough arguments on this list without starting one over
something that we can't afford to do at the present time?

L. Sicinius Drusus
(Resident of the Gods Favorite Province) ;-)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wouldn't Vatican City also be an excellent example of this, Senator?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Dobbins [mailto:drusus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes, provinciae and Nova Roma


Salve Pompeianus,

In this case I think we will have to do the same thing the United
States did when it was faced with the problem of which State it's
National Capital would be located in. The Forum and the Area around it
wouldn't be a part of any Province, it would be a seperate district
like the District of Columbia that The United States capital of
Washington is located in.

The Forum and an area around it, say a radius of 20 miles, will be
removed from the Province and become a seperate district called Latium
that is directly controlled by the Nova Roman Government. Roma wasn't
a part of any Province, and Nova Roma's Forum Area shouldn't be either.

Of Course America Austrorientalis being the Gods favorite province is
the logical one to give up this land for the forum. ;-)

L. Sicinius Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeianus <ajorlor@y...> wrote:
> Salve Druse et al.,
>
> First of all, thank you to have read the message. I won't value the
importance of each provincia or if one is better than another, mainly
because I don't have the necessary elements to make it.
>
> However, although I recognize that you have written a joke, I cannot
stop to see certain disturbing problems in it. As I have understood,
the relationship among the provinciae of Nova Roma is through equality
-at least, I don't know any type of classification. As I have said in
the previous mail, to create a physical forum for all Nova Roma, would
have in short, as direct consequence, the invigoration of a provinciae
with regard to the other ones. In fact, That forum will be the place
of the Senate, and when we will think in the senate, we will have the
provinciae as a guide. Has somebody thought about how should be
structured the relationships of the rest of provinciae with the
provincia that will have the forum? would not be better to continue
maintaining the virtual character of Nova Roma in this case, like an
answer to the multiplicity of people that they form it? Would not be
better to think the forum like the work of a single provincia that it
doesn't involve to the rest of
> Nova Roma? -for example as Magna Mater Project-. If some provincia
wants to have a land and if she has enough money, then she buys it.
But as the project of a provincia, not of all Nova Roma.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Pompeianus.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete;
the Boni are very sweet & kind & noble.
For those unacquainted with the great things they want for Nova Roma
please check the posts for Boni members for these months and find out
for yourselves.

Boni 'To Do List'

May: bring back the Dictator

June: Get rid of the State

July: get rid of the Laws

August: ?

valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

Cato.

The Romans respected Judaism because of its antiquity. There is no evidence
that Iuppiter was ever syncretized to Yahweh. In Beard's Roman Religion,
there is a whole section on how many Jewish houses of worship were in Rome. If
you want more information on Judaism in the Roman Republic & Empire, check with
Sulla Felix.

Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Ursus.

Yeah we all want to more to a province that is macronationally bankrupt, has
forest fires that wipe out a portion of the state every year, where there is
so little personal freedom you can't smoke on the beach but the cost of living
is three times higher than anywhere in AA. Oh yeah, you can't carry a sword
or gun, you can be arrested for whistling at a pretty girl, and the governor
bans smoking in public buildings but smokes in a tent set up in an alcove of the
state capital. Screw your good weather. You have lost all personal freedom
and choice there. You should try shooting a few politicians to keep them in
line. California is the Granola State where all the fruits, flakes, and nuts
end up (QFM excepted).

Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete;
tch tch;-)... may I refer you to the cultus of "Hypsistos" St.
Gregory of Nazanius's father was a member of this group. The exerpt
below is from "The Religions of the Roman Empire"by John Ferguson:

" The most interesting example of a blend is the worship of
Hypsistos in the Bosporus region. .....The original sectaries seem to
have been Jews but to have included proselytes known as 'adopted
brothers;; yet they use the formula 'under Zeus, Earth, Sun'. p.222

The Hypsistarii were popular in Cappadocia and the East. Hypsistos
is the title of YWYH in the Septuagint and also a cult title of Zeus,
Zeus-Hypsistos, it means 'Almighty' and 'Most-Highest'
I'm sure there are superior referenes to this interesting example
of syncretism, but I'm not near Trinity so I can't look into it. But
a fascinating topic!
valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

> Cato.
>
> The Romans respected Judaism because of its antiquity. There is no

evidence

> that Iuppiter was ever syncretized to Yahweh. In Beard's Roman

Religion,

> there is a whole section on how many Jewish houses of worship were

in Rome. If

> you want more information on Judaism in the Roman Republic &

Empire, check with

> Sulla Felix.
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well,ya'll are Welcome to come to Kansas! Lot's of FLAT land, dust,
no rain, lot's of rain,
wind, lot's of wind and the occassional Tornado or two. I should not
forget the other storms
like Thunderstorm's and Blizzard's. The PERFECT place for a Forum.

GnCL

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:37:59 EDT, padruigtheuncle@...
<padruigtheuncle@...> wrote:

> Salve, Ursus.
>
> Yeah we all want to more to a province that is macronationally bankrupt, has
> forest fires that wipe out a portion of the state every year, where there is
> so little personal freedom you can't smoke on the beach but the cost of living
> is three times higher than anywhere in AA. Oh yeah, you can't carry a sword
> or gun, you can be arrested for whistling at a pretty girl, and the governor
> bans smoking in public buildings but smokes in a tent set up in an alcove of the
> state capital. Screw your good weather. You have lost all personal freedom
> and choice there. You should try shooting a few politicians to keep them in
> line. California is the Granola State where all the fruits, flakes, and nuts
> end up (QFM excepted).
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Private e-mail to: charlie@...
iChatAV/AIM: RomanHillbilly

ROFL,

I Guess the old Main List just isn't complete without the daily hate!

http://www.channel1.com/users/randy/odd/dailyhate.html

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> Salvete;
> the Boni are very sweet & kind & noble.
> For those unacquainted with the great things they want for Nova Roma
> please check the posts for Boni members for these months and find out
> for yourselves.
>
> Boni 'To Do List'
>
> May: bring back the Dictator
>
> June: Get rid of the State
>
> July: get rid of the Laws
>
> August: ?
>
> valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

Salve Marcus Vitellius,

I Think Nova Roma would be a far better place if we just unwound and
enjoyed ourselves more often. Unfortually this list seems to have more
humor impaired people than I've ever seen in any one place.

Maybe we ought to send new citizens a welcome kit that includes a big
bottle of laxitive. If that dosen't work we will have to contact the
National Association for the Humor Impaired.

http://www.drhumor.com/

Drusus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Duemmel" <duemmelc@b...> wrote:
> Well put, Senator. Perhaps we all need to step back and look at
ourselves
> sometimes with humor and smooth things over. IMHO, that is never a
waste of
> time or bandwidth.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Dobbins [mailto:drusus@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:53 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why is it that.....Aurelianus to Fuscus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:
> > Salve Senator Drusus,
> >
> > > I Keep hearing that Nova Roma should be modern. Well what could be
> > > more modern that placing Nova Roma's Forum in the Province
that has
> > > the World's finest Space Port?
> > >
> > > Drusus ;-)
> >
> > Oh, I understood your joke and I could candidate the China as the
> > next most important Space Conquerer too ... And not forget the
> > growing european ESA, the official european space agency ;-)
> >
> > However what I meaned is that I have read maybe 10-12 posts about
> > this joke and I think it's a waste of time. Maybe you all could use
> > your time not for joke or unpolite and unuseful discussions, you
> > could use it to write a message about the roman History or the
> > latest archeological news, or to organize a live event or to find a
> > solution for a real archeological project, or to promote the
> > knowledgment of the Religio Romana, etc ... ;-)
> >
>
> The Humor defused a situation that could have led to a big argument
> over where we are going to build a Forum that we don't even have the
> funds for a downpayment on.
>
> Don't we have enough arguments on this list without starting one over
> something that we can't afford to do at the present time?
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> (Resident of the Gods Favorite Province) ;-)
>
>
>
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L Sicinio Druso S.P.D. Fl Vedius Germanicus

S.V.B.E.E.V.

I entirely agree with you about the need for funding to protect ancient
sites. Good intentions don't cut it; maintaining such sites _properly_
takes money to hire experts, buy equipment, conduct research and
restoration, etc. Often, governments either don't care enough or don't
have the funds to do the job. In such cases, it's up to local NGO's to
handle the job.

In the past, Nova Roma has subsidized such efforts; the Vindolanda fund
is a perfect example.

May I suggest that the Senate set up a permanent fund, dedicated solely
to the support of such efforts? While the recipients of our largesse
might naturally change from year to year, the mere fact that we made a
point of distributing such support to worthy organizations would have
the dual effect of giving our own cives the certain knowledge that a
portion of their dues are going to such a worthy cause (which may make
the payment of taxes more palatable to some), as well as allowing us to
increase our positive image among legitimate archaeological organizations.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae

John Dobbins wrote:

> Preserving Culture and History aren't free, it costs money. That is a
> fact that even nation-states can't evade forever. If you don't have
> the funding you can't do it. That is the cold hard reality, and that
> is a "law" that can't be repealled by any government. It can be evaded
> for a time by borrowing, but sooner or later reality will catch up
> with you.

Fr. Apulo Caesar S.P.D. Fl Vedius Germanicus,

S.V.B.E.E.V.

A "good and serious topic" it may well be, but as others have stated, it
is also a topic that is premature and apt to do nothing but foster
ill-feeling.

Personally, I've always envisioned Nova Roma's 108 acres as being in
Rome itself, preferably adjacent to the Vatican, if for no other reason
as to honk them off when the smoke from our sacrifices drifts languidly
over their enclosure. But I'm flexible, and we certainly don't need to
make such a decision now!

I find your argument that geographical proximity is a necessary
requirement to be lacking; in a world where one can fly from New York to
Rome in mere hours, or where you and I could have a face-to-face
conversation via the Internet right now if we pleased, and where funds
can be transferred by people half a world away literally instantly, such
things mean little. The Coca-Cola company (to take but one example out
of thousands) manages to operate in the most remote locales in the
world, despite having their corporate headquarters in Atlanta. Let's not
set any limits. The time is just not ripe.

Let us shelve discussion about _where_ to build our Forum until we have
the wherewithal to _do_ so. But on the other hand, let us not abandon
such a goal (nor, I should add, be ready to take advantage of sudden
opportunities that the Gods may see fit to place before us), even if it
is a task for generations, merely because we cannot make it happen RIGHT
NOW. It'll happen someday. No need to figure out the hows and wheres and
how-muches today.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae

FAC wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
> several people here are joking about this argument and I'm quite
> to have read stupid posts about the space-ports (we are not able to
> live togheter in a mailing list and people are thinking yet to
> conquer the moon ... strange and human!!!).
> However I think this could be a good and serious topic.
>
> > Fuscus, you might as well know about the truth of the matter. In
> all
> > likelihood, the administrative center for Nova Roma WILL be built
> in
> > the USA.
>
> Why? this is not THE TRUTH and on contrary is quite un-historical
> and illogical and wrong in my personal opinion.
> Why an archeological and historical organization about the Ancient
> Rome having goals about the conservation of the roman culture would
> be built in a land where there aren't roman ruins, there isn't roman
> culture, there aren't archeological projects, where the people must
> to travel for thousands of kilometers to meet important public
> istitutions giving it live projects, etc.?
>
> Mine is not anti-americanism but I think we must to think about NR
> like a common organization. Where NR could have more opportunities
> to work and organize real and live projects on roman tresury?
> If you take a popular academila book about economical sciences,
> you'll find that the best thing for an organization (or society, or
> group, etc. and first of all if it's small) is to be installed close
> to the own target.
>
> > Not because of ego or Ameri-centracism (is that actually a
> > word?) but because we don't have any places the Romans actually
> were
> > here. We GOT NO Roman sites or ruins in the whole continent. You
> > folks in Italia are surrounded by ruins and reconstructions of
> actual
> > Roman sites. You have groups and individuals (like TiAnO) who
> > affiliate with those sites and get to have lots of fun among the
> > villas, forts, vinyards, etc. We Americans are going to have to
> > build it ourselves . . . from scratch.
>
> And this is one of the best reason to choose no American places to
> build our administrative center. In USA or Canada, etc. we will
> never live the roman culture because wwould be too far from the
> original places which could give more feelings and emotions.
> And in any way we must think about the future and the well of our
> organization and ask ourself what is the best solution to grow it.
> The growth of NR means to raise more money, to build relationship
> with important public istituitions, to create live projects
> restoring roman ruins, to permit to our citizens to work in this
> projects, to visit directly the places where our Fathers lived, to
> work with the Offices managing this places, etc.
>
> I know that this is very hard to be accepted by our american fellows
> and it could seem "too european" ... but this is THE TRUTH! Everyone
> here know that roman things are far from America and if we would
> restore Roma Antiqua we couldn't build a faulse pantheon, a copy of
> the colosseum, etc. This are ever copies and never the original. And
> we wouldn't build a "roman disneyland" like the Caesar in Las Vegas.
> This is not roman, this is not original, this is not traditionalism
> and this is not reconstructionism. This is like the managers in Las
> Vegas thinking that build a copy of Venice is like the original
> Venice.
> Only the original places could give us the real roman emotions and
> restore the ancient virtutes.
>
> > We got MILES & MILES OF MILES
> > & MILES and it is near major highways & towns. We are not going
> to
> > look for land in the Balkans cause that place ain't been the same
> > since the Illyrian Pirates had it. Poland may be good but you
> never
> > know when those Huns are going to overrun it again.
>
> The large areas in USA are a good reason bu not enough. Why we
> couldn't build the forum of NR too in the desert of Mexico, in the
> forests of Canada or Brazil or Thule, or in North-Africa, or in a
> greek island, or Australia, etc. The "miles" are not enough...
>
> I wouldn't force you all to support the candidacy of Italy ;-)
> ... but I would give you an easy example.
> My father have two very little pieces of land in the country close
> to my city, in south-italy. In one of this we cultivate grape for
> wine, the other is now empty. This second is exaclty in the center
> of an ancient roman fort of the II cen. a.D., a wonderful place
> where you can find little rests of roman amphoras in the land. If my
> father will decide to sell this land, this could be a wonderful
> place to build a very little nova roman forum.
> Or again, in the country close to Rome there are several villas and
> ancient buildings close to roman ruins. They're expansive but the
> price is reasoned from the distance to the original places.
> I'm sure that we could find similar locations in Spains, France,
> Balcans, Germany, Britain, Belgium, Greece, Romania, etc.
>
> > Now I am lucky to live in a city where we have a full replica of
> the
> > Parthenon and two major Greco-Roman public buildings but we can't
> use
> > them for Nova Roma (apart from the Video Shoot in October).
>
> Sorry Aurelianus, with all the respect for you and yyour city, but I
> think that a replica of the Parthenon is very sad ... ;-)
> Have you seen the original Parthenon? Did it got you the same
> emotions of the replica?
> WOuld do you prefer live and work close to real greek building?
>
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

M. Arminia Maior Fabiana:

Yawn. So you don't like the Boni. Everyone already knows you hate sacred
tradition.

I know of no one in the Boni who has not put in countless hours of work into
the Republic. I believe that every single Bonus love our Republic without
question. You can attack us, but we will not go away. We only get stronger!

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Bonus

In a message dated 8/3/2004 5:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rory12001@... writes:
Salvete;
the Boni are very sweet & kind & noble.
For those unacquainted with the great things they want for Nova Roma
please check the posts for Boni members for these months and find out
for yourselves.

Boni 'To Do List'

May: bring back the Dictator

June: Get rid of the State

July: get rid of the Laws

August: ?

valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

T Arcano Agricolo S.P.D. Fl Vedius Germanicus

S.V.B.E.E.V.

Ah, yes. I stumbled across the Kemet.org folks back in Nova Roma's
initial days. My own thought-- borne purely of my own impressions, and
in no way intended to be any sort of official position, is that those
guys seemed a bit like a (modern) cult. They have a Pharoh, who claims
personal imprimatur from the Gods Themselves, and whose word, as far as
I can tell, is literally law. I think she's a God Herself, too, but I'm
not 100% sure of that.

The whole thing just made me itchy. One reason I never suggested Nova
Roma enter into any sort of formal arrangement with them. I'm sure the
Unification Church takes their devotion to God very seriously, too.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae

Mike Abboud wrote:

> and I come across an organization called Kemet .org. By the name you
> can tell it has something to do with Egypt. It looks like the have
> been around since 1994. They have established there 3rd real
> temple/shrine. The buidling doesn't look all that grand on the
> outside but they seem to take seriously there devotion to their Gods.
>
> T.Arcanus Agricola

Salve, Fabiana.

Domina, I think you are overstating things just a little bit on the post
about what the Boni have been doing for the last several months. I do not recall
all of the Boni proposing all these things and I recall calling for repealing,
rescinding, or consolidating several laws, but I am not of the Boni. You
should really consider standing down a bit on your feelings about the Boni
because you are gathering a few others in with such generalizing and exaggeration.

Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---

> Salve, Aureliane;

well I could be wrong & correct me, which is fine...;) I've been
wrong before, but the Vedius, the dictator returning thing, was boni.
Remember those "it's all over" posts;-).
And then the idea that we didn't need NR to be a micronation that
all we needed to be was just a religious group-boni. The Pontifex
Maximus was forced to tell them on the ML it's impious and there is
no religio without the state.
and finally the 'the laws' are driving all the cives away issue. And
we don't need them. Drusus et al. were pretty big on that until
Cordus and Faustus had to remind them that law and legislation were
an intrinsic part of Roman history and life.
So as I say, I can be wrong, but these are specific instances I
certainly remember.

I really don't know what the boni are for; but it doesn't seem to
have anything to do with restoring republican roma antiqua.
bene vale,
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

postscriptum: I used up all my Irish in reading your last letter, I'll
put a call & see if we don't have some Hiberni who have a cupla
focal..

>
>.
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]