Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Sep 3-8, 2004

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28379 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28380 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28381 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28382 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28383 From: Michael Loughlin Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28384 From: Galus Agorius Taurinus Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Trying to understand the Boni
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28385 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28386 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28387 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28388 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28389 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: Tink!!!! does it ever end?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28390 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28391 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28392 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28393 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28394 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28395 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28396 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28397 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28398 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28399 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28400 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28401 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28402 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28403 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28404 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28405 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28406 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28407 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28408 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28409 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28410 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28411 From: Gaia Fabia Livia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28412 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28413 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28414 From: Chris Duemmel Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28415 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28416 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28417 From: oddissius raz Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28418 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28419 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Password Reset for you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28420 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28421 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28422 From: Doris Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: We Mature, Do We Not?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28423 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28424 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28425 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28426 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Moderates?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28427 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28428 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28429 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Venice-Rome Connection?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28430 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Venice-Rome Connection?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28431 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Venice-Rome Connection?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28432 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28433 From: Pat Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28434 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28435 From: Mike Abboud Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28436 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28437 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28438 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28439 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28440 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28441 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28442 From: faustamartianaminervalis Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28443 From: Ursula Numeria Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28444 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Tiberius Ambrosius Quintilianus sum.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28445 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: The Password is "Spider"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28446 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28447 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28448 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28449 From: AnglMscOG@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28450 From: Seia Silvania Atia Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28451 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28452 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28453 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28454 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28455 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28456 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28457 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28458 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28459 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28460 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28461 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28462 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28463 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28464 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28465 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28466 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28467 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28468 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28469 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28470 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28471 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28472 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28473 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28474 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28475 From: Michael Loughlin Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28476 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28477 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Ludi Romani: rules for the photo quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28478 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] explorator 7.19
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28479 From: Nabarz Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: A Mithras rite of Autumn Equinox
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28480 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28481 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: wait a second...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28482 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28483 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28484 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Ya know...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28485 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28486 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28487 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28488 From: Maxima Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: salt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28489 From: Maxima Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: New Group to Support the Imperial Eagle, Aquila Heliaca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28490 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Ludi Romani photo quiz : picture 1 / 10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28491 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28492 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28493 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Wikipedia entries
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28494 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Concerned about appts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28495 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Articles on Roman Government - XX - Edictum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28496 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28497 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28498 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28499 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28500 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28501 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Cultural contest - Rules
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28502 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: FIRST QUESTION CUL CONT LUDI ROMANI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28503 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Gaius Iulius Iulianus' NR Status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28504 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28505 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: An important week-end for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28506 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28507 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28508 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28509 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28510 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28511 From: Marcus Cassius Julianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28512 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28513 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28514 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28515 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again! (and maybe a bit of hipocracy???)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28516 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Patronage (was Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My NR status, again!)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28517 From: octavius_romulus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: An important Opportunity for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28518 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: salt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28519 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28520 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Ludi Romani photo quiz : photo 1 / 10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28521 From: Petrus Domitianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: map
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28522 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28523 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28524 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28525 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Ager Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28526 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Germanicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28527 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28528 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28529 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28530 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: to po...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28531 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28532 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28533 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28534 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Ager Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28535 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28536 From: aoctaviaindagatrix Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28537 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Password
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28538 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28539 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Germanicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28540 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Second question Ludi Romani (waitin' for the I one...)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28541 From: Maior Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28542 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Answer of the first question Ludi Romani
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28543 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28544 From: Daniel Dreesbach Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Change in Moderators
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28545 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28546 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Fw: SPQR Ring
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28547 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28548 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28549 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28550 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Ludi Romani: photo 3/10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28551 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Palladius:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28552 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Bona fide
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28553 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Calling all armchair generals!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28554 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: Calling all armchair generals!!



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28379 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Salve Cato.

That your are a "moderati" is no "shocker". It is equally
no "shocker" that you have taken the field to provide a spin on
Troianus's contradictory posts. It is even less a "shocker" that
your tactic is to refer to old unrelated posts of mine and try to
focus on semantics.

The semantics: as to my "vituperativeness", I was using the
phrase "festering hate" to describe the principal driving force
behind many of the problems in Nova Roma. Anyone can subscribe to
peaceNR and read the posts and decide for themselves if it is
personality issues rather than principle that is the root cause of
problems. If you have trouble with the phrase, then the solution is
for you to help heal your compatriots in the "moderati" that suffer
from it. Sweeping it under the rug will not help or make it go away.

Now as to your post. its all very interesting stuff, but totally
irrelevant to the glaring discrepancies in Troianus's accounts on
peaceNR and here on the Main List.

We can talk about cooperation, building together and why someone
left this faction or the other until the cows come home, but until
you and the "Moderati" in general can demonstrate an ounce of
honesty and consistency in relation to your faction, what can be
achieved?

Ultimately Cato you can post gallons of treacle over this list, but
it won't obscure the fact that Troianus contradicted himself to such
a severe degree that it raises a huge question mark over the honesty
and consistency of your "moderati".

You would be better off writing a script for Troianus and letting
him post it under his name.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> Well. Let's see...where do I begin? First of all, I am (this is
a
> shocker, so Iulius Caesar, please sit down before proceeding) a
> member of what is now known as the "Moderati". Just to clarify,
it
> was I who suggested the nane, and it wasn't even until about a
week
> and a half ago. It wasn't voted on or subject to any formal
> discussion: I just started using the word in emails.
>
> I am surprised by Caesar's vituperativeness; for one who attacks
> others for being immature and eaten up with "festering hate" these
> themselves are certainly divisive words. If there is to be any
sort
> of coming-to-terms between the existing factions, Iulius Caesar's
way
> is not going to bear much fruit.
>
> I have made my opinions clear on a variety of subjects; that some
may
> disagree with me does not make me wrong, no matter what office or
> position they hold, or to what faction they may belong; nor does
it
> make me right. I have been willing to acknowledge my fault when I
> recognized it to be so, and I will remain firm when I believe I am
> right. Is this so extraordinary? Unusual? No. Any of you
reading
> this would naturally act the same way. I happen to talk a lot, be
> pushy and/or arrogant at times, unlike many and like some others.
>
> Iulius Caesar, in some ways you are correct: I am certainly not an
> idiot and I think very carefully before posting *most* of what I
> post. I often post with a specific idea in mind, in an attempt to
> make my point both known and understood on a wide scale. Again,
is
> this extraordinary? Unusual? Again, no.
>
> Now, Iulius Caesar seems to be fueled by the idea that I have a
> personal, evil vendetta against Cornelius Sulla. As a matter of
> fact, I harbor no personal ill-will against Sulla, and I daresay
that
> Sulla knows this. I'd also be willing to bet that Sulla has no
> particular ill-will towards me. We each happen to think that the
> other is incorrect in the interpretation of certain events
recently.
> We have each accepted the outcomes of the particular events,
unlike
> Iulius Caesar, who has fixated upon it. Sulla and I have
continued
> our banter on other, private Lists, with little or no rancor
(albeit
> some sarcasm). That does not mean he agrees with me, or
necessarily
> appreciates the depth to which we disagree with each other; it
just
> means that he has enough common sense to realize that
> actively "hating" someone is pretty useless, and absolutely not
> constructive.
>
> I did not support the lawsuit against Sulla because I "hate" him;
I
> supported it because I believe that Sulla was wrong. That does
not
> make me evil or twisted or vindictive: it just means that I think
> Sulla was wrong. Sulla brought the suit against Taurinus, and
Iulius
> Caesar is among those shouting the loudest that Sulla was only
doing
> what was his duty; that it was not evil or twisted or vindictive:
it
> meant that Sulla believed what he was doing was right.
>
> So, let's put this puppy to bed. The lawsuits are over. Iulius
> Caesar, I know that you want frothing at the mouth and jumping up
and
> down. You ain't gonna get it. I'm a Moderatus. I disagree
strongly
> with most of what most of the Boni stand for.
>
> I think that there are valuable lessons to be learned from the
past
> 1700 years, that can be applied skillfully and successfully to NR
to
> make it a stronger place, and not necessarily sacrifice the mos
> maiorum on an altar of "modernity", either. Let's talk about that
> instead.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28380 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Ha ha! LOVE the idea!
Of course, a *certain* faction would absolutely freak out trying to
figure who's actually "aligned", who just chose the colour when they
joined, and who's actually signed up to race.

Hmmm... I'd have to run it past everyone else, but I have a sneaking
suspicion the majority in our group would favour "Greens" if we went
this route.

Took us a while to come up with a name; we temporarily went along with
the "ABC" bit coined on the Peace List after nameless months, until
serendipity (& Cato) proffered "Moderati".

Vale bene
~ Troianus

On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 09:51 PM, Matt Hucke wrote:

>
>
> Troianus wrote:
>
>> Different groups. No merger. The one I'm in refers to ourselves as
>> "the Moderati". I don't know by what name Octavius' group call
>> themselves.
>
> We haven't formally chosen one yet, though we've had some discussion.
>
> Perhaps each faction should choose one of the four existing racing
> factions (red, blue, green, white); there's a widget on the website
> already for indicating which one you support on your profile page,
> and it'd make it easier to tell who's allied with who.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> hucke@...
> http://www.graveyards.com
>
> Curiosity killed the cat;
> Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28381 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
When their real agenda is fixed and has remained fixed for, oh lets
see at least six months, then I suppose we can all make judgements
on what the "moderati" really stand for and what their real
objectives are.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> Caesar:
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28382 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve Iulius Caesar.

Iulius Caesar, until you have something else to say besides simply
restating your dislike for anyone who is not a Bonus, there's really
no point in responding to you. If you want to sit in a pile of mud
and splatter it as far as you can, constantly re-hashing useless
accusations, you are welcome to. As I said before, this is neither
useful nor interesting, and it is certainly not productive.

You know what? People's thoughts and views change constantly; that's
what it means to be adaptive. It's a fairly common human trait.
That's why I consider myself a Moderatus: apart from a core idea that
syncretism and adaptability are strengths, not weaknesses, I am not
so chained to a specific set of rules and regulations that I cannot
move. Neither is Troianus. If you would like to claim that the Boni
have always felt a specific way about every single issue in Nova
Roma, you are either wrong or they are guilty of the same
adaptability that you so despise in anyone who is non-Boni.

As long as you continue your diatribe against anyone who disagrees
with anything the Boni say, you are NOT part of a solution. You are
the problem.You've got a lot of anger going on there, and I'm not
sure where it's coming from. If you acted this way on the street in
NYC, you wouldn't be on your feet for very long. That is NOT a
threat, simply an observation. Try to be a little
more...uhhh....moderate. When you have something productive to say
regarding specific differences surrounding specific issues, I'll be
glad to discuss it with you.

Vale,

Cato





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Cato.
>
> That your are a "moderati" is no "shocker". It is equally
> no "shocker" that you have taken the field to provide a spin on
> Troianus's contradictory posts. It is even less a "shocker" that
> your tactic is to refer to old unrelated posts of mine and try to
> focus on semantics.
>
> The semantics: as to my "vituperativeness", I was using the
> phrase "festering hate" to describe the principal driving force
> behind many of the problems in Nova Roma. Anyone can subscribe to
> peaceNR and read the posts and decide for themselves if it is
> personality issues rather than principle that is the root cause of
> problems. If you have trouble with the phrase, then the solution is
> for you to help heal your compatriots in the "moderati" that suffer
> from it. Sweeping it under the rug will not help or make it go away.
>
> Now as to your post. its all very interesting stuff, but totally
> irrelevant to the glaring discrepancies in Troianus's accounts on
> peaceNR and here on the Main List.
>
> We can talk about cooperation, building together and why someone
> left this faction or the other until the cows come home, but until
> you and the "Moderati" in general can demonstrate an ounce of
> honesty and consistency in relation to your faction, what can be
> achieved?
>
> Ultimately Cato you can post gallons of treacle over this list, but
> it won't obscure the fact that Troianus contradicted himself to
such
> a severe degree that it raises a huge question mark over the
honesty
> and consistency of your "moderati".
>
> You would be better off writing a script for Troianus and letting
> him post it under his name.
>
> Vale
> Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28383 From: Michael Loughlin Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: introduction
Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of melodrama, perhaps I can offer an interlude in this and introduce myself to the public. My citizens name is Quintus Cassius Brutus, my real-life name is Michael. I have a BA in Criminal Justice and Political Science that I received from Franklin Pierce College in Rindge, NH. I have a concentration in Poli-Sci in International Politics. I am interested in history as well but did not feel up to dishing out another $20,000 to loan institutions. So I spend my time reading what I can pick-up at the bookstore and enjoying history. Historically speaking, I enjoy WWII, Irish History (particularly The Troubles), Imperial Roman History, and various philosophical writings. I am 24 yrs old ummm any other questions...ask away....


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28384 From: Galus Agorius Taurinus Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Trying to understand the Boni
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:

> We have two things in common, friendship, and a concern that Nova
Roma
> is losing sight of Roma to persue intrests that have nothing to do
> with Roma. We have no intrest in seeing modern political
experiments,
> 19th century moral codes, 21st century international politics,
> Political Corectness, or other assorted non-roman ideas displacing
> Real Roman Ideas.
>



Drusus, I think you and I have been through this before. You can't
chop Rome out of the pages of a history book and plop it down in the
21st century. That is outside of the range of sense or reality.

Would you mind sharing with me, or with other people here, PRECISELY
what these "Roman Ideas And Values" are that you feel are being
replaced and ignored? Because I'm sort of confused.

I hear the Boni saying that Nova Roma has gotten "away" from where it
started or is "drifting away" from where it is supposed to be going,
but they never say EXACTLY what these holy virtues and ideals are
that

1. Ancient Rome Had, and which are still worthy of a one-for-one,
unaltered translation into the modern day

and

2. Which Nova Roma "used" to have, but started drifting away from.


I am speaking as an honest, non-factional outsider from these faction
wars- I don't like the Boni, but there are only two reasons why I
don't: You and Sulla. Your hostility towards me has led me to hate
your faction by default.

Other than that one prejudice of mine, I have no political
affiliation; only to the Spirit/Dream of Nova Roma, the Gods, the
exultation of the Religio above all other religious groups here, and
to my Gens, do I feel any loyalty.


So please answer my questions, and put aside your hostility. What
Great Thing or Things did NR used to have, that it got away from?
What Great Things did ancient Rome have, that we don't have today and
need?


Taurinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28385 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
A sincere welcome Quinte Cassi


> Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of
melodrama<<

Well there has rarely been any other kind of time here ;-).

Good luck!

Vale,

G. Popillius Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28386 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Salve Cato.

Cato - just so you are quite clear, I am not angry and this is not a
diatribe. That is a classic diffusion tactic to take the focus off
the issue of your groups difficulty in keeping the same "story"
concerning your objectives and motivations from one week to the next.

Your faction appears to have undergone a dramatic turnabout. One
moment anti-boni according to Troianus on peaceNR and now not "anti"
anyone. Forgive me that appears to be stretching the truth too far,
even for a "moderati".

As to who is and who is not part of the problem, you are the last
person to voice an opinion on that.

As to specific differences, lets start with the specific difference
between the Anit-Boni Coalition on peaceNR and the faction that they
became here, the "moderati".

As to your silly veiled "almost" threat, it is beneath contempt. You
include such drivel only to difuse and distract.

Vale
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve Iulius Caesar.
>
> Iulius Caesar, until you have something else to say besides simply
> restating your dislike for anyone who is not a Bonus, there's
really
> no point in responding to you. If you want to sit in a pile of
mud
> and splatter it as far as you can, constantly re-hashing useless
> accusations, you are welcome to. As I said before, this is
neither
> useful nor interesting, and it is certainly not productive.
>
> You know what? People's thoughts and views change constantly;
that's
> what it means to be adaptive. It's a fairly common human trait.
> That's why I consider myself a Moderatus: apart from a core idea
that
> syncretism and adaptability are strengths, not weaknesses, I am
not
> so chained to a specific set of rules and regulations that I
cannot
> move. Neither is Troianus. If you would like to claim that the
Boni
> have always felt a specific way about every single issue in Nova
> Roma, you are either wrong or they are guilty of the same
> adaptability that you so despise in anyone who is non-Boni.
>
> As long as you continue your diatribe against anyone who disagrees
> with anything the Boni say, you are NOT part of a solution. You
are
> the problem.You've got a lot of anger going on there, and I'm not
> sure where it's coming from. If you acted this way on the street
in
> NYC, you wouldn't be on your feet for very long. That is NOT a
> threat, simply an observation. Try to be a little
> more...uhhh....moderate. When you have something productive to
say
> regarding specific differences surrounding specific issues, I'll
be
> glad to discuss it with you.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Cato.
> >
> > That your are a "moderati" is no "shocker". It is equally
> > no "shocker" that you have taken the field to provide a spin on
> > Troianus's contradictory posts. It is even less a "shocker" that
> > your tactic is to refer to old unrelated posts of mine and try
to
> > focus on semantics.
> >
> > The semantics: as to my "vituperativeness", I was using the
> > phrase "festering hate" to describe the principal driving force
> > behind many of the problems in Nova Roma. Anyone can subscribe
to
> > peaceNR and read the posts and decide for themselves if it is
> > personality issues rather than principle that is the root cause
of
> > problems. If you have trouble with the phrase, then the solution
is
> > for you to help heal your compatriots in the "moderati" that
suffer
> > from it. Sweeping it under the rug will not help or make it go
away.
> >
> > Now as to your post. its all very interesting stuff, but totally
> > irrelevant to the glaring discrepancies in Troianus's accounts
on
> > peaceNR and here on the Main List.
> >
> > We can talk about cooperation, building together and why someone
> > left this faction or the other until the cows come home, but
until
> > you and the "Moderati" in general can demonstrate an ounce of
> > honesty and consistency in relation to your faction, what can be
> > achieved?
> >
> > Ultimately Cato you can post gallons of treacle over this list,
but
> > it won't obscure the fact that Troianus contradicted himself to
> such
> > a severe degree that it raises a huge question mark over the
> honesty
> > and consistency of your "moderati".
> >
> > You would be better off writing a script for Troianus and
letting
> > him post it under his name.
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28387 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
G. Equitius Cato Q. Cassio Bruto S.P.D.

Salve, Cassius Brutus.

Welcome to Nova Roma :-) There's never a dull moment. Well,
actually, there ARE dull moments, but no-one's around to see them...

Vale bene,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michael Loughlin
<quintus_cassius@y...> wrote:
>
> Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of
melodrama, perhaps I can offer an interlude in this and introduce
myself to the public. My citizens name is Quintus Cassius Brutus, my
real-life name is Michael. I have a BA in Criminal Justice and
Political Science that I received from Franklin Pierce College in
Rindge, NH. I have a concentration in Poli-Sci in International
Politics. I am interested in history as well but did not feel up to
dishing out another $20,000 to loan institutions. So I spend my time
reading what I can pick-up at the bookstore and enjoying history.
Historically speaking, I enjoy WWII, Irish History (particularly The
Troubles), Imperial Roman History, and various philosophical
writings. I am 24 yrs old ummm any other questions...ask away....
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28388 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: introduction
--- Salve Quinte Cassi:

Well met!

My name is Pompeia, "Po" for short, and welcome to NR.

I 'hear' you when you talk about student loans vs. the desire to
pick up another degree, diploma etc. I enjoy history, and I find
that, since I don't really 'need' the degree for my nursing career,
I do alot of home study as an armchair historian. It's cheaper and
you learn as you can. I supplied some free humour for my nursing
collegues one evening when I trotted into work with the "Cambridge
Book of Ancient History' under my arm, as opposed to a Daniel
Steele...It's all what you are interested in, and 'Rome' has been my
forte since I was a kid. I have learned a tremendous amount about
Roman Military History, Roman Politics, Religio particulars, and
even how to sew a decent stola while being here in Nova Roma, and
I'm sure you could learn much too. We have some well learned
individuals here who are not stingy in giving references from where
you can learn more.

If you are interested in military history, there is Sodalitas
Militarium

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodalitasmilitarium

There are other Sodalitates in NR and groups which discuss various
topics of interests related to NR (they are not all political
factions, trust me:)) A search of Nova Roma through a search engine
will get you some quick URLs and I 'think' new subscribers still get
a list of all the main groups. Plus there are provincia mailing
lists. I am not sure which provincia you are in...if you go to
school close to home I suspect its Nova Britannia, and they do have
a mailing list.

Anyway, a warm welcome, and if you have any questions, do ask.

Vale
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michael Loughlin
<quintus_cassius@y...> wrote:
>
> Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of
melodrama, perhaps I can offer an interlude in this and introduce
myself to the public. My citizens name is Quintus Cassius Brutus,
my real-life name is Michael. I have a BA in Criminal Justice and
Political Science that I received from Franklin Pierce College in
Rindge, NH. I have a concentration in Poli-Sci in International
Politics. I am interested in history as well but did not feel up to
dishing out another $20,000 to loan institutions. So I spend my
time reading what I can pick-up at the bookstore and enjoying
history. Historically speaking, I enjoy WWII, Irish History
(particularly The Troubles), Imperial Roman History, and various
philosophical writings. I am 24 yrs old ummm any other
questions...ask away....
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28389 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: Re: Tink!!!! does it ever end?
---Cornelia Aternia...affectionately known as....

Tink!

Moi...."Forever Gracious"???...ahh, maybe Martha Stewart (poor
Martha) but not I...but I thank you for the typically kind gesture.

I tried to email you privately a while back and your email bounced.
Now I'm a fine one to talk because one of my email addies is
bouncing and I had some harddrive troubles this summer.

I'm not sure if it was this one I replied to or not. I'll try
writing you a more lengthy letter privately within the next day or
so.

Vale,
Po

P.S. (


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gurupoetess" <TolkienOutlaw@e...>
wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > isnt there a law list where all the nr atty- types can
> > take this. i for one am tiring of the dozens of
> > e-mails of chest beating crap. i am not alone,i am sure.
> >
> > =====
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
>
>
> Salve Marcus Flavius,
>
> Does it ever end? Now that is a good question.. And there are two
> ways one can go about dealing with the situation....
> (A.) The Delete key as the forever gracious Pompeia Minucia
Tiberia
> pointed out
> (B.) Just keep hoping one day the bickering will suddenly
disappear
> into the dark void from whence it came.
>
> Either way don't lose hope, Nova Roma is more than this or at
least
> it can be.
>
> Vale,
> R. Cornelia Aeternia
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28390 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-03
Subject: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve, Iulius Caesar.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
"Your faction appears to have undergone a dramatic turnabout. One
moment anti-boni according to Troianus on peaceNR and now not "anti"
anyone. Forgive me that appears to be stretching the truth too far,
even for a "moderati". [SNIP]
As to specific differences, lets start with the specific difference
between the Anit-Boni Coalition on peaceNR and the faction that they
became here, the "moderati"."

Well done. Let's talk about that specific difference. It is the
bald truth, Iulius Caesar, that we Moderati realize that just
being "anti-Boni" is not productive. It is what brought most of us
together, and is a touch-stone from which we are developing a much
more organized way of approaching issues, but simply being a
negative force is, well, negative. To be "anti" someone or something
is not a foundation on which to build; we have realized that we can
be a very productive force in NR, and would rather turn our efforts
to building. If the Boni, either in singular or plural form,
disagree with how we would approach an issue, then it that
particular instance, on that particular issue yes, we would
be "anti"-Boni --- but would present an alternative viewpoint,
rather than simply screech without purpose or aim.

I have in the very recent past, announced my total agreement with
various Boni on various diverse issues; I will continue to do so
when I agree with them. I will announce my opposition when I
disagree with a Bonus or Boni, as I have done with my fellow
Moderati. The point of having a coniuratio (I will bow to
Apollonius Cordus' superior knowledge in correctly naming a
similiarly-opinioned group) is that we are not, and will in the
future not be, a chorus of "nay-sayers". We will present our ideas
and opinions after careful consideration and conversation with each
other. If we still disagree, we are free to voice our individual
opinions.

We call ourselves "Moderati" because we have a much broader vision
of what Nova Roma can be, without a pre-conceived set of straight-
jacket-like approaches to any issue. We, like the Romans, are
willing to syncretize, to adapt, to mold and shape as we see best
for Nova Roma, even if it involves branching out into new
territories --- always with a firm eye fixed on Roma Antiqua.

This is my country too. I want it to be a living, breathing,
growing force --- not a series of set pieces engraved in stone that
are decorative but serve no useful purpose.

Vale,

Cato
Moderatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28391 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Cato.

Then the "moderati" won't be prone to the knee-jerk reactions that
your former incarnation of the Anti-Boni Coalition would have likely
have been, by virtue of howling down any position or suggestion made
by the Boni, either collectively or individually?

So if I, for example, were to moot an idea, then you and ALL
the "moderati" will examine it rationally and base your judgement on
its intrinsic value, rather than who suggested it?

If that is truly so, then it maybe helpful to communicate what
the "moderati" stands for, in general terms. You have described your
collective mind set and methodolgy of issue evaluation, "to
syncretize, to adapt, to mold and shape as we see best" but no
overall stance.

It maybe that you will be issue driven, which is understandable, and
feel unwilling to expand further. Either way some indication of this
would be a benefit to all.

One last point, if I alone were to disagree with your faction, you
would not be disagreeing with the Boni, but with me, and vice-versa.
So it would not be correct to say in that instance you were anti-
boni.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> "Your faction appears to have undergone a dramatic turnabout. One
> moment anti-boni according to Troianus on peaceNR and now
not "anti"
> anyone. Forgive me that appears to be stretching the truth too
far,
> even for a "moderati". [SNIP]
> As to specific differences, lets start with the specific
difference
> between the Anit-Boni Coalition on peaceNR and the faction that
they
> became here, the "moderati"."
>
> Well done. Let's talk about that specific difference. It is the
> bald truth, Iulius Caesar, that we Moderati realize that just
> being "anti-Boni" is not productive. It is what brought most of
us
> together, and is a touch-stone from which we are developing a much
> more organized way of approaching issues, but simply being a
> negative force is, well, negative. To be "anti" someone or
something
> is not a foundation on which to build; we have realized that we
can
> be a very productive force in NR, and would rather turn our
efforts
> to building. If the Boni, either in singular or plural form,
> disagree with how we would approach an issue, then it that
> particular instance, on that particular issue yes, we would
> be "anti"-Boni --- but would present an alternative viewpoint,
> rather than simply screech without purpose or aim.
>
> I have in the very recent past, announced my total agreement with
> various Boni on various diverse issues; I will continue to do so
> when I agree with them. I will announce my opposition when I
> disagree with a Bonus or Boni, as I have done with my fellow
> Moderati. The point of having a coniuratio (I will bow to
> Apollonius Cordus' superior knowledge in correctly naming a
> similiarly-opinioned group) is that we are not, and will in the
> future not be, a chorus of "nay-sayers". We will present our
ideas
> and opinions after careful consideration and conversation with
each
> other. If we still disagree, we are free to voice our individual
> opinions.
>
> We call ourselves "Moderati" because we have a much broader vision
> of what Nova Roma can be, without a pre-conceived set of straight-
> jacket-like approaches to any issue. We, like the Romans, are
> willing to syncretize, to adapt, to mold and shape as we see best
> for Nova Roma, even if it involves branching out into new
> territories --- always with a firm eye fixed on Roma Antiqua.
>
> This is my country too. I want it to be a living, breathing,
> growing force --- not a series of set pieces engraved in stone
that
> are decorative but serve no useful purpose.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
> Moderatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28392 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve, Caesar.

The answers to your questions are: read my post. I'm not sure how
much more general I can get, Iulius Caesar :-)

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Cato.
>
> Then the "moderati" won't be prone to the knee-jerk reactions that
> your former incarnation of the Anti-Boni Coalition would have
likely
> have been, by virtue of howling down any position or suggestion
made
> by the Boni, either collectively or individually?
>
> So if I, for example, were to moot an idea, then you and ALL
> the "moderati" will examine it rationally and base your judgement
on
> its intrinsic value, rather than who suggested it?
>
> If that is truly so, then it maybe helpful to communicate what
> the "moderati" stands for, in general terms. You have described
your
> collective mind set and methodolgy of issue evaluation, "to
> syncretize, to adapt, to mold and shape as we see best" but no
> overall stance.
>
> It maybe that you will be issue driven, which is understandable,
and
> feel unwilling to expand further. Either way some indication of
this
> would be a benefit to all.
>
> One last point, if I alone were to disagree with your faction, you
> would not be disagreeing with the Boni, but with me, and vice-
versa.
> So it would not be correct to say in that instance you were anti-
> boni.
>
> Vale
> Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28393 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Cato.

i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more general
and also an assurance that you were representing the will and
direction of ALL of the "moderati".

I see you are unwilling to go further :)

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Caesar.
>
> The answers to your questions are: read my post. I'm not sure how
> much more general I can get, Iulius Caesar :-)
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Cato.
> >
> > Then the "moderati" won't be prone to the knee-jerk reactions
that
> > your former incarnation of the Anti-Boni Coalition would have
> likely
> > have been, by virtue of howling down any position or suggestion
> made
> > by the Boni, either collectively or individually?
> >
> > So if I, for example, were to moot an idea, then you and ALL
> > the "moderati" will examine it rationally and base your
judgement
> on
> > its intrinsic value, rather than who suggested it?
> >
> > If that is truly so, then it maybe helpful to communicate what
> > the "moderati" stands for, in general terms. You have described
> your
> > collective mind set and methodolgy of issue evaluation, "to
> > syncretize, to adapt, to mold and shape as we see best" but no
> > overall stance.
> >
> > It maybe that you will be issue driven, which is understandable,
> and
> > feel unwilling to expand further. Either way some indication of
> this
> > would be a benefit to all.
> >
> > One last point, if I alone were to disagree with your faction,
you
> > would not be disagreeing with the Boni, but with me, and vice-
> versa.
> > So it would not be correct to say in that instance you were anti-
> > boni.
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28394 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve, Iulius Caesar.

When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed you
meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you say "overall
stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request for
specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
carefully.

And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
Moderati in this.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Cato.
>
> i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
general
> and also an assurance that you were representing the will and
> direction of ALL of the "moderati".
>
> I see you are unwilling to go further :)
>
> Vale
> Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28395 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Cato.

Yes - I have read it, carefully :).

Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
(suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for example) -
albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>
> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed you
> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
say "overall
> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request
for
> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
> carefully.
>
> And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
> Moderati in this.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Cato.
> >
> > i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
> general
> > and also an assurance that you were representing the will and
> > direction of ALL of the "moderati".
> >
> > I see you are unwilling to go further :)
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28396 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve, Iulius Caesar.

Yes. When they are being discussed :-) I do not see the need for
a laundry list of the issues from the Moderati anymore than from the
Boni, or any other coniuratio. As issues arise, it will be quite
clear. My fellow-citizens can then decide with whom (if anyone)
they feel more confident that the best interests of *all* Nova
Romans are being served. Until then,

Vale bene,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> Salve Cato.
>
> Yes - I have read it, carefully :).
>
> Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
> (suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for example) -
> albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >
> > Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >
> > When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
> > the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
you
> > meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
> say "overall
> > stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request
> for
> > specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
> > carefully.
> >
> > And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
> > Moderati in this.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > > Salve Cato.
> > >
> > > i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
> > general
> > > and also an assurance that you were representing the will and
> > > direction of ALL of the "moderati".
> > >
> > > I see you are unwilling to go further :)
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28397 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Cato.

Ahhh :) Its a secret list :)

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>
> Yes. When they are being discussed :-) I do not see the need
for
> a laundry list of the issues from the Moderati anymore than from
the
> Boni, or any other coniuratio. As issues arise, it will be quite
> clear. My fellow-citizens can then decide with whom (if anyone)
> they feel more confident that the best interests of *all* Nova
> Romans are being served. Until then,
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Cato.
> >
> > Yes - I have read it, carefully :).
> >
> > Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
> > (suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for example) -

> > albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> > <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> > > G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> > >
> > > When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate
what
> > > the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
> you
> > > meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
> > say "overall
> > > stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a
request
> > for
> > > specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit
more
> > > carefully.
> > >
> > > And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
> > > Moderati in this.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> > > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > > > Salve Cato.
> > > >
> > > > i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
> > > general
> > > > and also an assurance that you were representing the will
and
> > > > direction of ALL of the "moderati".
> > > >
> > > > I see you are unwilling to go further :)
> > > >
> > > > Vale
> > > > Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28398 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>
> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed you
> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you say "overall
> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request for
> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
> carefully.

Salve Cato,

I think what Caesar is all so patiently saying is that your list of
general aphorisms tell nothing about what you or your group believe.
It was a vague statement that probably anyone in NR would agree with.
All it says is how you feel but he is asking how you think, what you
believe.

Vale,

Palladius

P.S. Sorry for paraphrasing you Caesar but I think Nick is
distracting him.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28399 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Caesar ~

"Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a Magic
Decoder Ring and special handshake.

Vale
~ Troianus

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:32 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:

> Salve Cato.
>
> Ahhh :) Its a secret list :)
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>
>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>
>> Yes. When they are being discussed :-) I do not see the need
> for
>> a laundry list of the issues from the Moderati anymore than from
> the
>> Boni, or any other coniuratio. As issues arise, it will be quite
>> clear. My fellow-citizens can then decide with whom (if anyone)
>> they feel more confident that the best interests of *all* Nova
>> Romans are being served. Until then,
>>
>> Vale bene,
>>
>> Cato
>>
>>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
>> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>>> Salve Cato.
>>>
>>> Yes - I have read it, carefully :).
>>>
>>> Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
>>> (suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for example) -
>
>>> albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?
>>>
>>> Vale
>>> Caesar
>>>
>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
>>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>>>
>>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>>>
>>>> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate
> what
>>>> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
>> you
>>>> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
>>> say "overall
>>>> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a
> request
>>> for
>>>> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit
> more
>>>> carefully.
>>>>
>>>> And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
>>>> Moderati in this.
>>>>
>>>> Vale,
>>>>
>>>> Cato
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
>>>> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>>>>> Salve Cato.
>>>>>
>>>>> i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
>>>> general
>>>>> and also an assurance that you were representing the will
> and
>>>>> direction of ALL of the "moderati".
>>>>>
>>>>> I see you are unwilling to go further :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Vale
>>>>> Caesar
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28400 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Troianus

Now I am confused. Cato has indicated that what was the Anti-Boni
Coalition has changed, butterfly like, into the "Moderati". A
beautiful and uplifting event at the birth - no doubt. He went on to
say that the moderati was adopting a more organised approach to
issues.

Now you are telling me that it is this informal group of friends who
compare notes. That doesn't sound very organised. It sounds like a
trainspotting club. You can't both be correct...or can you? Let me
guess...you can and someone is going to explain at length how, and
how it was so obvious.

Cato seemed to indicate that there were some policies, but that we
would only be told about them in due course. Hence why I stated that
seemed as though it was a secret list :) Actually that was a tad of
a joke, but as you got a little defensive, I am now starting to
wonder....

Vale
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Caesar ~
>
> "Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
> compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a Magic
> Decoder Ring and special handshake.
>
> Vale
> ~ Troianus
>
> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:32 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> wrote:
>
> > Salve Cato.
> >
> > Ahhh :) Its a secret list :)
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> > <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> >> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >>
> >> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >>
> >> Yes. When they are being discussed :-) I do not see the need
> > for
> >> a laundry list of the issues from the Moderati anymore than from
> > the
> >> Boni, or any other coniuratio. As issues arise, it will be
quite
> >> clear. My fellow-citizens can then decide with whom (if anyone)
> >> they feel more confident that the best interests of *all* Nova
> >> Romans are being served. Until then,
> >>
> >> Vale bene,
> >>
> >> Cato
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> >> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> >>> Salve Cato.
> >>>
> >>> Yes - I have read it, carefully :).
> >>>
> >>> Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
> >>> (suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for
example) -
> >
> >>> albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?
> >>>
> >>> Vale
> >>> Caesar
> >>>
> >>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> >>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> >>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >>>>
> >>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >>>>
> >>>> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate
> > what
> >>>> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
> >> you
> >>>> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
> >>> say "overall
> >>>> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a
> > request
> >>> for
> >>>> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit
> > more
> >>>> carefully.
> >>>>
> >>>> And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
> >>>> Moderati in this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Vale,
> >>>>
> >>>> Cato
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> >>>> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> >>>>> Salve Cato.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
> >>>> general
> >>>>> and also an assurance that you were representing the will
> > and
> >>>>> direction of ALL of the "moderati".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I see you are unwilling to go further :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Vale
> >>>>> Caesar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28401 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Caesar ~
>
> "Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
> compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a Magic
> Decoder Ring and special handshake.

Oh then in that case I assume anyone can join so we can read your
posts and see who your members are. What's the URL? :-)


Vale,


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28402 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
<<Not some Secret Society with a Magic Decoder Ring>>

Wouldn't you need a Magic Decoder Ring to work out what the name of
your faction was meant to be on any particular day; like the Enigma
code machine from WWII?

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus
> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > Salve Caesar ~
> >
> > "Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
> > compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a
Magic
> > Decoder Ring and special handshake.
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28403 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Salve Octavi, salvete omnes,

At first this was a response to you but it ended up being a late
night rambling response to many of the issues discussed today.
Indulge me, it's late. :-)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@c...> wrote:
> Salve Gnae Iuli,
>
> > I wasn't even including your group in with this "moderati"
faction.
>
> Thanks for that. It seemed that it was directed at all who have
> ever been "anti-Boni", though we are a diverse lot.

You know, reading this discussion, one would get the idea that all
these factions that "oppose" the Boni were created in *reaction* to
the Boni when the truth is more the opposite: the Boni were formed to
combat increasingly concerted and organized factionalism on
the "modernist" side of the fence. The impending election of C.
Fabius Quintilianus in 2002 and the fear--which turned out to be well
founded--of the creation of a large bureaucracy (Cohors) spurred the
creation of the Boni. In a very real way, the Cohors created the
Boni.

Of course, as the Modermali are discovering, one cannot forever
remain in opposition to something but must be for something; things
are going full circle in a way though I don't think they've quite
figured yet what they're going to stand for. Ironic that now it is
the Boni by which all other groups are measured in Nova Roma.

Naturally there have always been factions in Nova Roma; as Taurinus
and Caesar both said, factions are inevitable when dealing with
people. For my first four years here I studiously avoided them and
remained aloof but I eventually found, just as the "Moderati" have,
that if you don't like the way events unfold that there is strength
in numbers to change things. One can try to remain aloof from
factions and try to work with anyone and everyone but in the end you
are less effective. Plus the factions are a haven from the incredible
nastiness that characterizes daily civil life in Nova Roma (and I
note that those opposed to the Boni excel in bringing to the fore
that nastiness at least as well as the Boni.)Yes there IS baggage in
ANY faction. But you learn that's life, and factions aren't going
away as long as people believe different things or have different
personalities.

Sorry to ramble, it's late. Anyway, I suppose some of you may have
read between the lines and gathered I'm uncomfortable with the whole
idea of factional politics and being a member of a faction, I'm too
independent I suppose and idealistically believe we should all work
together for Nova Roma. However, that's too simplistic because then
the question arises, which Nova Roma should we all work together to
create? That's when factions form (then personal dislike of various
people on all sides fuels the fire).

Ok, your dose of boredom ends here. Goodnight all.

Valete,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28404 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Ha ha!
A month ago that might have been the case! :-)
We've decided on Moderati though, so it's "official".
Wish we'd thought of those Rings while it was under discussion
though....

Vale
~ Troianus

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 02:29 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:

> <<Not some Secret Society with a Magic Decoder Ring>>
>
> Wouldn't you need a Magic Decoder Ring to work out what the name of
> your faction was meant to be on any particular day; like the Enigma
> code machine from WWII?
>
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@t...> wrote:
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus
>> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>>> Salve Caesar ~
>>>
>>> "Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
>>> compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a
> Magic
>>> Decoder Ring and special handshake.
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28405 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Palladius ~

Caesar has already read my Post on the Peace NR List, and that contains
much of what our people have agreed on unanimously so far. The issues
and our position on each is fairly clearly stated.

Every day we're discussing more things, reaching agreement on various
topics and issues. As Cato has said, when the issues arise we will
make our position on it clear ~ if we have one at that time: It's a new
group, after all.

Vale
~ Troianus

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:40 AM, deciusiunius wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
> wrote:
>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>
>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>
>> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
>> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed you
>> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you say "overall
>> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request for
>> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
>> carefully.
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> I think what Caesar is all so patiently saying is that your list of
> general aphorisms tell nothing about what you or your group believe.
> It was a vague statement that probably anyone in NR would agree with.
> All it says is how you feel but he is asking how you think, what you
> believe.
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius
>
> P.S. Sorry for paraphrasing you Caesar but I think Nick is
> distracting him.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28406 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Caesar ~

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 02:01 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:
>
> Salve Troianus
>
> Now I am confused.

Sorry. Confused how?

> Cato has indicated that what was the Anti-Boni
> Coalition has changed, butterfly like, into the "Moderati".

We agreed on a name. No "changed" about it. "Anti Boni Coalition" was
never an "official" name ~ it was a tag borrowed from the Peace NR
List. Now we've agreed on a name.

> A
> beautiful and uplifting event at the birth - no doubt. He went on to
> say that the moderati was adopting a more organised approach to
> issues.

That's correct. Octavius actually guessed pretty accurately ~ read his
Post if you haven't already. We're getting more organized every day.
Note the "getting": It's a work in progress.
>
> Now you are telling me that it is this informal group of friends who
> compare notes. That doesn't sound very organised.

I've already stated this too, and it's a tad late at night for this
much redundancy. It's getting organized, more so every day.

> It sounds like a
> trainspotting club.

Ha ha! Nope ~ no drugs, no suicidal stunts. (I'm referring to the
movie.)

> You can't both be correct...or can you? Let me
> guess...you can and someone is going to explain at length how, and
> how it was so obvious.
>
It's already been stated, and there is no conflict. You seem to be
thinking in terms of all or nothing, neglecting the fact that groups
evolve. Our group is evolving, becoming steadily better organized.
Hope that wasn't too long!

> Cato seemed to indicate that there were some policies, but that we
> would only be told about them in due course.

Yep.

> Hence why I stated that
> seemed as though it was a secret list :) Actually that was a tad of
> a joke, but as you got a little defensive,

"Magic Decoder Rings" sounded like I took it seriously and defensively?
Do you Boni have Magic Decoder Rings ~ did I hit too close to home?

> I am now starting to
> wonder....

Wonder can be a wonderful thing! ;-)

It's late ~ Have a wonderful night!
>
> Vale
> Caesar

Vale
~ Troianus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>> Salve Caesar ~
>>
>> "Secret List"? It's a network of friends. We write each other,
>> compare notes ~ that's all. Not some Secret Society with a Magic
>> Decoder Ring and special handshake.
>>
>> Vale
>> ~ Troianus
>>
>> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:32 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Salve Cato.
>>>
>>> Ahhh :) Its a secret list :)
>>>
>>> Vale
>>> Caesar
>>>
>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
>>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>>>
>>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. When they are being discussed :-) I do not see the need
>>> for
>>>> a laundry list of the issues from the Moderati anymore than from
>>> the
>>>> Boni, or any other coniuratio. As issues arise, it will be
> quite
>>>> clear. My fellow-citizens can then decide with whom (if anyone)
>>>> they feel more confident that the best interests of *all* Nova
>>>> Romans are being served. Until then,
>>>>
>>>> Vale bene,
>>>>
>>>> Cato
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
>>>> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>>>>> Salve Cato.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes - I have read it, carefully :).
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me clarify; do you feel able to enunciate specific policies
>>>>> (suggested legislative / constitutional amendments for
> example) -
>>>
>>>>> albiet in general terms as opposed to finite detail?
>>>>>
>>>>> Vale
>>>>> Caesar
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
>>>>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>>>>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate
>>> what
>>>>>> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
>>>> you
>>>>>> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
>>>>> say "overall
>>>>>> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a
>>> request
>>>>> for
>>>>>> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit
>>> more
>>>>>> carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yes, I can comfortably say that I do indeed represent the
>>>>>> Moderati in this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vale,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cato
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
>>>>>> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>>>>>>> Salve Cato.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i was hoping for something a little more specific, not more
>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> and also an assurance that you were representing the will
>>> and
>>>>>>> direction of ALL of the "moderati".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see you are unwilling to go further :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vale
>>>>>>> Caesar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28407 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Moderati (was "The F-Word")
Salve Troianus

The post on the peaceNR list was exclusively concerned with what you
were opposed to - the Boni. This was when you were the Anit-Boni
Coalition, remember?

Cato today said that you became the Moderati because it was felt
that to just associate with negativity wasn't productive.

So the policies on peaceNR list that you enunciated relate to a
defunct and "negative" group. By referring us back to that post for
an explanation of the policies of the "Moderati", you are linking
your, latest, incarnation as a faction with negativity and an anti-
boni stance. That is in clear contradiction to what Cato has said
this evening. So you are all unanimously still anti-boni and
negative regardless of Cato's explanation to the contrary?

Based on this continuing level of contradiction, counter-
contradiction and even mesier contradiction, who knows what your
policies and position are? Obviously not even you and Cato can
agree, so where does that leave the rest of Nova Roma? I assume
conviently in the dark?

<<It's a new group, after all>>

Indeed it is. It appears to have been formed today, after you got
yourself in a bit of a pickle with all your contradictory posts.
Based on today's performance I assume that the Moderati will be
dissolved by tomorrow because its just too contradictory (as opposed
to the last which was just too negative), and we can expect a new
named faction to pop up?

If I were you chaps, I'd invest in that Magic Decoder Ring after all.

Vale
Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Palladius ~
>
> Caesar has already read my Post on the Peace NR List, and that
contains
> much of what our people have agreed on unanimously so far. The
issues
> and our position on each is fairly clearly stated.
>
> Every day we're discussing more things, reaching agreement on
various
> topics and issues. As Cato has said, when the issues arise we
will
> make our position on it clear ~ if we have one at that time: It's
a new
> group, after all.
>
> Vale
> ~ Troianus
>
> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:40 AM, deciusiunius wrote:
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...>
> > wrote:
> >> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >>
> >> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >>
> >> When I read your words "maybe [sic] helpful to communicate what
> >> the 'moderati' stands [sic] for, in general terms", I assumed
you
> >> meant "general", and not "specific"; likewise when you
say "overall
> >> stance" --- this is not a term generally equated with a request
for
> >> specifics. I urge you once more to read my post, but a bit more
> >> carefully.
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> >
> > I think what Caesar is all so patiently saying is that your list
of
> > general aphorisms tell nothing about what you or your group
believe.
> > It was a vague statement that probably anyone in NR would agree
with.
> > All it says is how you feel but he is asking how you think, what
you
> > believe.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Palladius
> >
> > P.S. Sorry for paraphrasing you Caesar but I think Nick is
> > distracting him.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28408 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: introduction
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michael Loughlin
<quintus_cassius@y...> wrote:
>
> Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of
melodrama, perhaps I can offer an interlude in this and introduce
myself to the public. My citizens name is Quintus Cassius Brutus,

[SNIP]

Salve Brute,

There is far less drama at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/ the
"New Roman" list. It is a small,friendly list for newer citizens.

Vale!

M. Gladius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28409 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Password
The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?

Flavia Lucilla Merula

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28410 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around 4:00am.

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus


On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:37:18 +0100, k.a.wright <k.a.wright@...> wrote:
> The request to reset the password came from
> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28411 From: Gaia Fabia Livia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:

> I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
4:00am.

Someone tried mine, too:

e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at 04/09/03 23:52:16
(US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.

Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28412 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
I had one attempt:

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 01:42:50 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia" <livia@s...>
wrote:
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
> > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
> 4:00am.
>
> Someone tried mine, too:
>
> e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at 04/09/03 23:52:16
> (US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28413 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: introduction
Gaius Modius Athanasius Quinto Cassio Bruto salutem dicit

Welcome to Nova Roma. Yes, this is a time fro melodrama, but sadly to say
most of the time you can see drama in Nova Roma...tis the nature of the beast
I presume. I would, however, encourage you to be active and voice your
opinions on the various Nova Roma lists. I know it can be intimidating at times,
but there are several good people here that can help you sort through things.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/3/2004 11:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
quintus_cassius@... writes:

Okay, being that it seems I've joined Nova Roma around a time of melodrama,
perhaps I can offer an interlude in this and introduce myself to the public.
My citizens name is Quintus Cassius Brutus, my real-life name is Michael. I
have a BA in Criminal Justice and Political Science that I received from
Franklin Pierce College in Rindge, NH. I have a concentration in Poli-Sci in
International Politics. I am interested in history as well but did not feel
up to dishing out another $20,000 to loan institutions. So I spend my time
reading what I can pick-up at the bookstore and enjoying history. Historically
speaking, I enjoy WWII, Irish History (particularly The Troubles), Imperial
Roman History, and various philosophical writings. I am 24 yrs old ummm any
other questions...ask away....





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28414 From: Chris Duemmel Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
1 attempt here...rather confusing...
-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar [mailto:gn_iulius_caesar@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 6:35 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Password


I had one attempt:

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 01:42:50 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia" <livia@s...>
wrote:
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
> > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
> 4:00am.
>
> Someone tried mine, too:
>
> e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at 04/09/03 23:52:16
> (US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Livia


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28415 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Collins <iguard@g...> wrote:
> I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around 4:00am.
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:37:18 +0100, k.a.wright <k.a.wright@n...> wrote:
> > The request to reset the password came from
> > 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> > Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >

Mine too:

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 01:55:49 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

M. Gladius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28416 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
All these people who were nearly hacked. It must be a moderati
plot! <g>

They can't make up their minds who and what they are - so it stands
to reason they couldn't make up their minds who to hack.

Oh - for any humour impaired moderati (or whatever the name of your
group is post 0600hrs) - that was a gentle jest.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Gladius Agricola"
<whogue@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Collins <iguard@g...>
wrote:
> > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
4:00am.
> >
> > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:37:18 +0100, k.a.wright <k.a.wright@n...>
wrote:
> > > The request to reset the password came from
> > > 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > > at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > > using Mozilla/4.0.
> > >
> > > Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma
password?
> > >
> > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> > >
>
> Mine too:
>
> The request to reset the password came from
> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> at 04/09/04 01:55:49 (US/Central timezone)
> using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> M. Gladius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28417 From: oddissius raz Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
GREETINGS TO EVERYBODY,
Some wrote of factionalism, eagles, special things which only have thier interest and as NR acolyte have the interest of joining this micro nation before, since it is clear in thier by laws that serves the interest of all Nova Romans. Since all of us wanted to have a Roman society; be it old fashion, modern, or hyper modern at least we must have a good leader,researchers,planners etc. to sthrenghten this organization.Maybe we cannot reach around 3 million members in my estimate. How could we become a micro nation if our energy is not collective fighting inside a system is a decay. I have an intuition that we will become a micronation should we toe in the line and establish a system in different countries of this world, any way its the nation of conquerors and conquering does not mean war. we have the sodalitas militarium, the religio and others which could be used in enhancing capabilities of every NR member to become a strong empire. Even Mussolini
was dreaming of it but make it an extreme case. My name is Porticus Marcus from the philippines and joining this empire hoping that there will be a bond for sthrength. Since it is proven that energy can be transformed from one system to another if I still remember maybe it cannot be destroyed or created. Factionalism is tensionnad can be summated and simply from its place of origin.
So long and May the Supreme God bless.

Porticus Marcus


Galus Agorius Taurinus <g_agorius_taurinus@...> wrote:
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I don't have enough fingers to count the many times has it been
> brought up in one form or another as to what Nova Roma's problem
> is? Nova Roma's problem is the "F-word." No, not that "F-word,"
> this is a far more sinister "F-word." This "F-word" is just as
> vulgar and destructive to cooperation between people. This "F-
word"
> only serves to divide people and create distrust. This "F-word" is
> Factionalism.
>
> Do we need more proof that what I say is true than to look at Nova
> Roma today?



Ancient Rome was factional. So was Ancient Ireland, Scotland, Wales,
England, Spain, Germany, France, Africa, Asia, India, Pacifica, and
EVERYWHERE else on earth. And things haven't changed much.

Welcome to life as a human being. WE can't "cut out" factionalism. We
have to learn how to fairly sublimate it.


Taurinus





Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Get unlimited calls to

U.S./Canada


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28418 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
Salve Deci Iuni,

> the Boni were formed to
> combat increasingly concerted and organized factionalism on
> the "modernist" side of the fence. The impending election of C.
> Fabius Quintilianus in 2002 and the fear--which turned out to be well
> founded--of the creation of a large bureaucracy (Cohors) spurred the
> creation of the Boni. In a very real way, the Cohors created the
> Boni.

The Boni existed as an identifiable faction - with that name - long
before. The boni_nr list on Yahoo was created on Sep 5, 2002,
more than two months before Caeso announced his intention of
running for Consul. The Boni existed when Caeso was only an Aedile.

As for the fear being well founded... that's a bit like saying
you have a well founded fear of hats, or cheese. What harm did
Caeso ever do to you at that point, and what harm did his large
staff do to Nova Roma?

The Boni reaction to his appointments was disgusting. In the first
days of January, the new Consul was abused and villified, and there
were public calls for a veto. Never before had a Consul been treated
so shabbily, so early in his term.

Your behaviour in January caused our own unnamed faction to grow -
by attacking everyone associated with Caeso in a small way, most
of them became much stronger allies of his, and of ours.

Before that, I had though that the problem in NR politics was
simply that Sulla and I mix like oil and water, and that things
would return to normal once we were no longer consuls; but
on the second day of Caeso's term, when an innocuous series
of appointments met with an obscene over-reation, it became
evident that the Boni intended to continue the fight.

Vale, Octavius.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

Curiosity killed the cat;
Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28419 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Password Reset for you
> Someone has requested that instructions for changing your password
> on the Nova Roma web server be mailed to your registered email
> address.

> The request to reset the password came from
> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)

Looks like everyone got hit with these. Perhaps it's a *very* badly-behaved
web crawler, that submits every "POST" form it can find.

They're harmless - unless someone else is capable of reading your mail,
they won't be able to reset the password.

It's still annoying though, and thus:

nyarlathotep# route add -net 62.68.184.0 -netmask 255.255.255.0 127.0.0.1 -blackhole

...what this means is that the offender, and anyone on his network, now cannot
see the server at all, and will get "Connection timed out" when trying to contact it.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

Curiosity killed the cat;
Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28420 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "k.a.wright" <k.a.wright@n...>
wrote:
> The request to reset the password came from
> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula


Salve,

I received two emails myself one from at a little before midnight
and the other around 4 am from this same URL. Enternet.hu is a
valid hosting service in Hungary. Since it's written in Hungarian I
can't understand a word of their website. The URL 62.68.184.116
appears to be either a completely bogus or a dynamic URL created on
the fly and then discarded. But I don't have the most sophisticated
of tracing software. I'll let Octavius know someone has been
trolling the website and perhaps he can do a more concrete trace.

This has happened before. At that time someone was using a spider
program to harvest email addresses and spider program tripped the
password resets for just about everyone. That time it wsn't just
once or twice it was about a dozen times each. Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28421 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
the scythians are at it again!
--- richmal@... <richmal@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "k.a.wright"
<k.a.wright@n...>
> wrote:
> > The request to reset the password came from
> > 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> > Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova
Roma password?
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
>
> Salve,
>
> I received two emails myself one from at a little
before midnight
> and the other around 4 am from this same URL.
Enternet.hu is a
> valid hosting service in Hungary. Since it's written
in Hungarian I
> can't understand a word of their website. The URL
62.68.184.116
> appears to be either a completely bogus or a dynamic
URL created on
> the fly and then discarded. But I don't have the
most sophisticated
> of tracing software. I'll let Octavius know someone
has been
> trolling the website and perhaps he can do a more
concrete trace.
>
> This has happened before. At that time someone was
using a spider
> program to harvest email addresses and spider
program tripped the
> password resets for just about everyone. That time
it wsn't just
> once or twice it was about a dozen times each. Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28422 From: Doris Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: We Mature, Do We Not?
Salvete Omnes!

Sometimes all one can do is draw up to her full if diminuative
height and say Here I Stand.

I *was* an "anti-boni". I began corresponding with other quirites
who have been lambasted by that faction, and there are a lot of us.
Yes, we had an "anti-boni" group at one time. It faded. Perhaps it
was hacked, or we just went our seperate ways. Many of we original
members stayed in private correspondence. Some few may remain
virulently "anti-" whatever. Many more of us got aquainted and
found we have common CONSTRUCTIVE interests. I and several other
correspondents joined PeaceNR, skeptical at first, but willing to
say we gave it an honest effort.

Much wonderful good has come from the PeaceNR list! Many
compromises made, many swords beaten into plowshares!

I am now a "moderate" for whatever it is worth. Call me what you
like; it has been tried before by the betters of any here. After
sixteen years of marriage to a Special Forces VietNam combat
veteran, I know invective as a fine art, and it sways me little,
except to cause me to rise up and reach out to comfort other
recipients of such. Public namecalling and cynicism say nothing
about the character of their recipient, but speak volumes as to the
character of the perpetrator.

The "anti-boni" has disbanded and we as individuals have (on the
whole) MATURED. Again, my compliments to the founder of PeaceNR, who
has inspired myself and others to "go thou and do likewise";
compromise and move forward.

Do you see me fighting or name calling here? NO! You see me doing
something CONSTRUCTIVE:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquilaheliaca/?yguid=164345709

an effort to revitalize the gravely threatened living symbol of
rominatas, the Imperial Eagle, aquila heliaca.

While you all are spewing invective, there is work to be done.

Whatever is your CONSTRUCTIVE contribution to Nova Roma, will you
please just go do it!

Lambaste away and expect to be ignored. I have work to do.

--Sabina Equitia Doris
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28423 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Doris" <doris-butler@s...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> Sometimes all one can do is draw up to her full if diminuative
> height and say Here I Stand.
>
> I *was* an "anti-boni". I began corresponding with other quirites
> who have been lambasted by that faction, and there are a lot of us.

Oh like that came out of nowhere?

Are you forgetting or ignoring your own actions? Several Times I
attempted to politely remind you that you were speaking about a Ritual
that many of your fellow citizens considered sacred, but you were on
your soapbox and nothing anyone said was going to stop you from making
self rightous and derogatory comments about other people's religion.

LSD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28424 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Ha ha!
Actually, Caesar, since it happened to so many of OUR people too, we
were wondering if it was a BONI Plot ~ until all these reports came in
on the ML!

SOMEBODY sure is curious about Nova Romans!

Vale
~ Troianus

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 07:25 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:

> All these people who were nearly hacked. It must be a moderati
> plot! <g>
>
> They can't make up their minds who and what they are - so it stands
> to reason they couldn't make up their minds who to hack.
>
> Oh - for any humour impaired moderati (or whatever the name of your
> group is post 0600hrs) - that was a gentle jest.
>
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Gladius Agricola"
> <whogue@a...> wrote:
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Collins <iguard@g...>
> wrote:
>>> I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
> 4:00am.
>>>
>>> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:37:18 +0100, k.a.wright <k.a.wright@n...>
> wrote:
>>>> The request to reset the password came from
>>>> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
>>>> at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
>>>> using Mozilla/4.0.
>>>>
>>>> Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma
> password?
>>>>
>>>> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>>>>
>>
>> Mine too:
>>
>> The request to reset the password came from
>> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
>> at 04/09/04 01:55:49 (US/Central timezone)
>> using Mozilla/4.0.
>>
>> M. Gladius Agricola
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28425 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

One note: the greatest catalyst for we Moderati to regroup as a
constructive power was that several months ago, a group of us were
invited to a specifically "anti"-Boni List to voice our grievances,
lick wounds, and consider what kind of action to take. We did, and
soon noticed that issues we were discussing were turning up with
alarming regularity on this, the Main List, to be mocked and
attacked. The creator of that List has since been revealed as a
Bonus --- and a quite vociferous one at that. Interesting tactic,
nonne? Turncoat, double agent, spy, liar --- by whatever name you
call it, it comes up petty. Never has a member of the Moderati
pretended to be a Bonus.

But rest assured, one of that List's members has the posts from that
List archived, including comments that the Boni might find
particularly interesting coming from one of their own.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28426 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Moderates?
Salvete,

The Moderates?

I Have talked to people who were present at the start of Nova Roma.
They have told me that there was some debate about allowing Xtians in,
and that it was decided that Xtians would be allowed to join with a
Blasphemy Clause to protect the Religio, a moderate postion.

We now have "Modertes" who want to do away with that clause.

We had a situation where the Blasphemy Clause was being misconstrued
as preventing Xtians from speaking out. The Pontiffs issused a
Decretum that established narrow guidelines for evoking it, a moderate
postion.

We now have "Moderates" who want to do away with that Decretum.

We had a situation where the historic practice of Animal Sacrifices
was being dodged. The Pontiffs issused a Decretum that clairified the
postion as being Sacrifice wasn't manditory for Priests who had
personal convictions against it, and that no requests for state
funding would be made to perform Rituals involving Animal Sacrifices,
a moderate postion.

We now have "Moderates" demanding a ban or restrictions on other
people's religous rituals.

There is a clause in Nova Roma's Constution that recognizes citizens
Freedom of Speech.

We now have "Moderates" who want to restrict that freedom in the name
of "manners", and who's actions show that ANY crictism of their
postions will be denounced as bad manners.

These people aren't moderates by any reasonable meaning of the term,
they are radicals.

LSD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28427 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: We Mature, Do We Not?
Gee "Senator Joe McCarthy", do you also have a scrap of paper to wave
around while making claims that it's a list of card carrying
Communists in the Boni?

Making unsubstaintated claims about an unnamed Bonus is a classic Tail
Gunner Joe Tactic.

LSD

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> One note: the greatest catalyst for we Moderati to regroup as a
> constructive power was that several months ago, a group of us were
> invited to a specifically "anti"-Boni List to voice our grievances,
> lick wounds, and consider what kind of action to take. We did, and
> soon noticed that issues we were discussing were turning up with
> alarming regularity on this, the Main List, to be mocked and
> attacked. The creator of that List has since been revealed as a
> Bonus --- and a quite vociferous one at that. Interesting tactic,
> nonne? Turncoat, double agent, spy, liar --- by whatever name you
> call it, it comes up petty. Never has a member of the Moderati
> pretended to be a Bonus.
>
> But rest assured, one of that List's members has the posts from that
> List archived, including comments that the Boni might find
> particularly interesting coming from one of their own.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28428 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
It seems that your memory is as bad as your skills at making a
"private" message.

LSD

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> > We have two things in common, friendship, and a concern that Nova
> Roma
> > is losing sight of Roma to persue intrests that have nothing to do
> > with Roma. We have no intrest in seeing modern political
> experiments,
> > 19th century moral codes, 21st century international politics,
> > Political Corectness, or other assorted non-roman ideas displacing
> > Real Roman Ideas.
> >
> > LSD
>
> Two words as a FORMER Boni, Bull and Shit! The only interest I ever
> saw while I was in the Boni is how can we get even with this person,
> that person, this faction, that one, and this one. As for the
> accustation that the Boni stacked the deck in the CP, they pegged
> that one right on the money. I was there when you can Scaurus got
> your posts in the CP and how the Boni was suppose to celebrate
> seizing control of the Religio from Cassius. That was the first eye
> opener.
>
> The second one was when you were supposedly worried that Nova Roma
> the corporation had some legal problems that could place its non-
> profit status in jeapardy. I asked a friend of mine who was a
> paralegal in Maine those questions. Instead of actually addressing
> the problems you, Sulla, and Fabius used that information in an
> attempt to sieze control of Nova Roma the Corporation and force
> Cassius out. That is when I left the Boni because I would be no
> part of your skullduggery.
>
> Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28429 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Venice-Rome Connection?
G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

I'm reading Norwich's "History of Venice", and I came across a
passage where he says that there is a legend in which Aneas stopped
at the Rialto on his way from the Trojan War (on his way to Rome, I
guess), and founded the city of Venice. He doesn't say where the
legend came from. Anyone know?

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28430 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Venice-Rome Connection?
---Salvete Equitius Cato et Omnes:

Now, Cato, that's an interesting question. I have a link that cites
information from the geographer Strabo on the founding of the city.
He credits the founding by the Cretes, but wasn't Strabo Greek by
birth? :) I stand corrected but I think so.

At any rate, it is worth a read.

http://www.itw.com.tr/html/miletus.html

Valete,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> I'm reading Norwich's "History of Venice", and I came across a
> passage where he says that there is a legend in which Aneas
stopped
> at the Rialto on his way from the Trojan War (on his way to Rome,
I
> guess), and founded the city of Venice. He doesn't say where the
> legend came from. Anyone know?
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28431 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Venice-Rome Connection?
---Whoops! wrong link :)

Po

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> ---Salvete Equitius Cato et Omnes:
>
> Now, Cato, that's an interesting question. I have a link that
cites
> information from the geographer Strabo on the founding of the
city.
> He credits the founding by the Cretes, but wasn't Strabo Greek by
> birth? :) I stand corrected but I think so.
>
> At any rate, it is worth a read.
>
> http://www.itw.com.tr/html/miletus.html
>
> Valete,
> Pompeia
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> >
> > Salvete, omnes.
> >
> > I'm reading Norwich's "History of Venice", and I came across a
> > passage where he says that there is a legend in which Aneas
> stopped
> > at the Rialto on his way from the Trojan War (on his way to
Rome,
> I
> > guess), and founded the city of Venice. He doesn't say where
the
> > legend came from. Anyone know?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28432 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Cato.

The unnamed Bonus is myself. The list was called Volcanus. It was
actually founded by a cives called Carantus, if my memory serves
correct. This was in April 2004, just at the time of the big debate
on sacrifice. Carantus and a few other newbies, myself included, had
been emailing back and forth, and he had suggested creating a list
specifically for newbies. I created the list and having done so,
turned over ownership to Carantus. He asked me to stay and assist
with the list in an owner role. I obliged.

The intent of the list was that it should be a haven for those of us
to discuss issues in a list setting, without having to worry about
upsetting other citizens with our views. It was indeed intended as a
short of First Aid Station.

I then posted my infamous Joys of Battle speech. At about the same
time Doris was posting to the ML concerning using stuffed toys as
substitutes for sacrifice, and Cato was in full throttle posting
about needles (or was it pin heads?) on the ML. Clearly neither of
these needed "First Aid" after all. It was at this time that my wife
became seriously ill. Carantus left the list and I think Nova Roma
as well. I posted to the Volcanus list that I felt it had now
outlived its usefulness and I was leaving as I felt it was too much
of an investment on my time to keep the posts alive (the amount of
posts were drying up). I informed them of my wife's illness and I
made all the remaining members owners and unsubscribed.

I then remained in a political no-mans land, independent of any
group, from roughly the beginning of May until I joined the Boni in
June. When the list had been created there was no blood oath
extracted that it should remain unmentioned by its members, but
there was a general agreement to keep silent about its existence. Of
course as I know now NR is probably littered with such lists. I kept
to that agreement, even when in the Boni, despite there being many
times when I could have shed light on so so many issues. After
I "outted myself", lo the list disappeared. Obviously from what Cato
says, because they changed the name. I confided in one member of the
Boni at this point and explained basically what I have written here,
no longer feeling bound by that initial agreement.

Now, as to Cato's feeble attempt at blackmail: publish and be damned
sir.

Those posts were written while I was not a Boni, before I left and I
am sure they are as damming of the Boni as their posts were of me at
the time. Please feel free to send them all to Drusus or any other
Bonus. Splatter them all over the Main List for all I care. Quite
frankly Cato you have managed to disgust me today. I always imagined
that you had some shred of dignity and understanding of the word.
You have stepped forth in your true colours, and how fortunate at a
time when you are a co-founder of a faction that seeks to clothe
itself in the Virtues.

You would seek to intimidate a citizen based on posts that you have
obviously assidiously stored? That is essentially blackmail in my
book. As to your posts and emails Cato, and those of so so many
others, from top to bottom in Nova Roman society that were in my
possession; did I distribute them and gain considerable political
adavantage for the Boni? No. Did I post veiled threats to these
people on the ML? No. Did I share them with the Boni? No. I also
knew that to share much of what I still know would have been a
despicable thing. No such consideration obviously stopped you.

Your post is revolting as is your feeble attempt to blackmail or
intimidate me into silence.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Dobbins" <drusus@b...> wrote:
> Gee "Senator Joe McCarthy", do you also have a scrap of paper to
wave
> around while making claims that it's a list of card carrying
> Communists in the Boni?
>
> Making unsubstaintated claims about an unnamed Bonus is a classic
Tail
> Gunner Joe Tactic.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28433 From: Pat Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
At 03:06 AM 9/4/2004, you wrote:
>Subject: Password
>
>The request to reset the password came from
>3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
>at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
>using Mozilla/4.0.
>
>Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
>
>Flavia Lucilla Merula

I experienced the same attempt, same source. I forwarded it to the webmaster.

So, (rising from my profound ennui with the current squabbling) is this a
Boni or Moderati plot? Or has some other nefarious group arrived on the scene?

O tempora, O mores!

With that, I'm off to perform far more Roman virtues, helping someone build
a rock wall (cement--a Roman virtue?) and tending a garden.

Let me know if we find the password culprit; I'd like him(her?) hurled from
the Tarpeian Rock. I have little tolerance for that kind of crap (is that
sentiment political? Am I a bonus, moderatus or simply irritated... and
thus what... frustratus?).

Valete,
M Umbrius Ursus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28434 From: KECTAM@aol.com Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Salvete Omnes,

I got a mail about this too (details below.)

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 00:57:23 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Can anyone please explain why we have received this message and what it
means?

Valete et gratias vobis ago,

Placidia Prisca






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28435 From: Mike Abboud Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
I didn't request a password change either. What's going on



Vale

Tiberius Arcanus Agricola

mikeabboud@...



_____

From: KECTAM@... [mailto:KECTAM@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 12:21 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Password



Salvete Omnes,

I got a mail about this too (details below.)

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 00:57:23 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Can anyone please explain why we have received this message and what it
means?

Valete et gratias vobis ago,

Placidia Prisca






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129v0mq9o/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1094404857/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=785648915>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28436 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.

Salve, Iulius Caesar.

"Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."

Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you get
caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28437 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Cato.

I have not been "caught". You tried to blackmail me. It failed. You
have no dignity for me to lecture you on.

Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>
> "Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."
>
> Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you get
> caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28438 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
A. Apollonius Cordus L. Sicinio Druso Senatori
omnibusque sal.

> > Factions like the Boni and these new fellows the
> > Moderati owe nothing of their existence or mode of
> > organization to Roman history, and everything to
> > ingrained modern habits of party-politics. The
> Roman
> > word for groups like these was not 'factio' but
> > 'coniuratio' - as in 'coniuratio Catilinae' or
> > 'coniuratio Bacchanalium'. Any Roman consul worth
> his
> > salt would have suppressed them as a threat to the
> republic.
>
> And how, pray tell do you know enough of the
> organization of the Boni
> to come to such a conculsion?

From what members have written on this list, which I
have no reason to disbelieve.

> Beleave it or not we have exactly two rules, the
> first is what is
> discussed on list is private and not to be discussed
> elsewhere. The
> second is any member can reject a proposed new
> member. That is it,
> hardly the modern political party you are trying to
> make us out to be.

I did not say that the Boni constitute a political
party; I said they constitute a coniuratio. Secret
meetings (a closed list), a black-ball
membership-application procedure, and an avowed
political ideology is quite enough to constitute a
coniuratio according to the standard usage of that
word in republican Latin.

> We have two things in common, friendship, and a
> concern that Nova Roma
> is losing sight of Roma to persue intrests that have
> nothing to do
> with Roma. We have no intrest in seeing modern
> political experiments,
> 19th century moral codes, 21st century international
> politics,
> Political Corectness, or other assorted non-roman
> ideas displacing
> Real Roman Ideas.

I am very glad to hear that you are all so dedicated
to historical accuracy. It gives me hope that when a
consul eventually comes to close down your group, just
as a republican one would have done, you will not be
heard appealing to such un-Roman ideas as freedom of association.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28439 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

>
> I did not say that the Boni constitute a political
> party; I said they constitute a coniuratio. Secret
> meetings (a closed list), a black-ball
> membership-application procedure, and an avowed
> political ideology is quite enough to constitute a
> coniuratio according to the standard usage of that
> word in republican Latin.
>

So are you trying to tell us that the factions that existed in Ancient
Rome held their meetings in the Forum where anyone could listen in on
what they were planning? That they allowed any passerby to become a
member? That their members didn't have any common political ideas?

LSD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28440 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Salvete Omnes !

Same thing for me ! Two attempts, same identity !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia" <livia@s...> wrote:
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
> > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
> 4:00am.
>
> Someone tried mine, too:
>
> e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at 04/09/03 23:52:16
> (US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28441 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
A. Apollonius Cordus L. Sicinio Druso Senatori sal.

> So are you trying to tell us that the factions that
> existed in Ancient
> Rome held their meetings in the Forum where anyone
> could listen in on
> what they were planning? That they allowed any
> passerby to become a
> member? That their members didn't have any common
> political ideas?

The factions of ancient Rome didn't have meetings at
all. They didn't have members. They were just labels
for people who had certain ideas and attitudes, like
the modern terms "socialist" or "liberal". You don't
have to apply to become a liberal. There are no
official meetings of the liberal faction. It's just an
attitude.

Don't take my word for it, please:

"There have always in this city been two kinds of men
who have been ambitious of being concerned in affairs
of state, and of arriving at distinction by such a
course and of these two kinds one wish to be
considered popular men and the others wish both to be
and to be considered of the party of the best men in
the state. Those whose object it was that whatever
they did and whatever they said should be agreeable to
the multitude, were the popular party [populares]; but
those who conducted themselves in such a way as to
induce all the best men to approve of their counsels
were considered of the best party [optimates].

Who then are they? Every good man. If you ask what are
their numbers, they are innumerable. For if they were
not, we could not stand. They are the chief men of the
public council; they are those who follow their school
they are the men of the highest orders of the state to
whom the senate house is open; they are the citizens
of the municipal towns and Roman citizens who dwell in
the country; they are men engaged in business; there
are even some freedmen of the best party. The number,
as I have said, of this party is widely scattered in
various directions; but the entire body (to prevent
all mistakes) can be described and defined in a few
words. All men belong to the best party, who are not
guilty of any crime, nor wicked by nature, nor madmen,
nor men embarrassed by domestic difficulties. Let it
be laid down, then, that these men (this race, as you
call them) are all those who are honest and in their
senses, and who are well off in their domestic
circumstances. Those who are guided by their wishes,
who consult their interests and opinions in the
management of the republic, are the partisans of the
best men, and are themselves accounted best men, most
wise and most illustrious citizens, and chief men in
the state.

What then, is the object proposed to themselves by
these directors of the republic, which they are bound
to keep their eyes fixed upon, and towards which they
ought to direct their course? That which is most
excellent and most desirable to all men in their
senses, and to all good and happy men,--ease conjoined
with duty. Those who seek this are all best men; those
who effect it are considered the chief leaders in and
the preservers of their states. For men ought not to
he so elated by the dignity of the affairs which they
have undertaken to manage, as to have no regard to
their ease; nor ought they to dwell with fondness on
any sort of ease which is inconsistent with dignity."

That's Cicero, "Pro Sestio" 96-8. The translation is
from Perseus, where you can also see the original
Latin, of course.

We may also notice that the same writer, having at one
time identified himself as an optimas, later came to
the conclusion that the existence even of such
decentralized, incoherent factions (far less organized
and defined than the Boni, as you can see from the
passage above) was detrimental to the republic:

"For the administration of the government, like the
office of a trustee, must be conducted for the benefit
of those entrusted to one's care, not of those to whom
it is entrusted. Now those who care for the interests
of a part of the citizens and neglect another part,
introduce into the civil service a dangerous element -
dissension and party strife. The result is that some
are found to be loyal supporters of the democratic
[populares], others of the 'aristocratic' [optimates]
party, and few of the nation as a whole."

Cicero, "De Officiis" 1.85, translation from an
article at
http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/eras/edition_3/chambers.htm
- an article which has some relevance to this whole
discussion.

Such were the factions of ancient Rome. Their
membership was not restricted or governed by any sort
of application-procedure. They had no rules governing
their members' conduct. They did not hold secret
meetings of their members.

I am not, I think, pronouncing any slanders on the
Boni when I say that it is a group which engages in
political discussion, which has a defined membership,
which has a particular procedure for becoming a
member, and which holds its discussions in secret.
These are all things which have been freely admitted
by its members. I am simply saying that any group with
those features would have been regarded by the Romans
as a coniuratio - a conspiracy. If you regard that as
anything other than a plain fact, then I invite you to
produce some evidence to the contrary.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28442 From: faustamartianaminervalis Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Salve,

I'm starting to feel neglected - I only had one attempt. :) I ignored
it, as instructed. No harm done.

Vale,

Fausta Martiana Minervalis



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis"
<pjtuloup@y...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes !
>
> Same thing for me ! Two attempts, same identity !
>
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> Provinciae Galliae Propraetor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia" <livia@s...>
wrote:
> > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
> >
> > > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and another around
> > 4:00am.
> >
> > Someone tried mine, too:
> >
> > e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at 04/09/03 23:52:16
> > (US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> > Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28443 From: Ursula Numeria Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Salvete!

I just checked my e-mail on hotmail and then came
right over to yahoo to check the list to say something
about the attempt on my password. Same deal here:

The request to reset the password came from
3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
at 04/09/04 04:51:55 (US/Central timezone)
using Mozilla/4.0.

Since I am posting anyway, I think I will take this
opportunity to simply say hi to everyone. It's been a
long time, but I am kind of back now. And I have a lot
of catching up to do.

Valete,
Ursula Numeria Fortunata


--- Lucius Rutilius Minervalis <pjtuloup@...>
escribió:
> Salvete Omnes !
>
> Same thing for me ! Two attempts, same identity !
>
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> Provinciae Galliae Propraetor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaia Fabia Livia"
> <livia@s...> wrote:
> > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
> >
> > > I had two attempts also. One about midnight and
> another around
> > 4:00am.
> >
> > Someone tried mine, too:
> >
> > e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116) at
> 04/09/03 23:52:16
> > (US/Central timezone) using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> > Livia
>
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias.
Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28444 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Tiberius Ambrosius Quintilianus sum.
I am very much interested in the land project occurring in Southern
Texas and would be honored in spearheading any plans to contruct a
temple or governmental facility to be constructed there.

I think at this point in Nova Roma's history, it is time that such an
action be taken. This isn't to say believe we should cut any corners
when building Roma's spiritual capital by any means. I request, of the
Roman Senate and People, that I be granted permission to take charge
in the plans for construction within this glorious desert province in
which we hold lands. It is only right and adaptive of our micronation
to endeavor to perserve a permanent Roman occupation of these lands.

I am currently a longtime scribe in the Nova Brittania province, but
must bring a request for a Republic-wide taxation towards this land
project before the citizens and senators of this great nation in order
to go further. I request to be put in charge of a monetary grant, with
a senator as an overseer in order for this project to begin to take form.

Ave atque vale.

-T.A.Q.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28445 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: The Password is "Spider"
Salvete,

Octavius has confirmed that a web crawler program aka "a spider"
trolled Nova Roma's website tripping people's password reset forms.
Most likely it was an attempt to harvest email addresses to bombard
you with yet more spam.

The reset form function only sends an email to the address that
you've provided Nova Roma, giving you instructions on how to reset
your password. Unless someone else has access to that email account
you have nothing to worry about. However, if you feel insecure in
light of this spider attack you can always change your password
anyway. Please don't use "spider" as it would be too obvious after
this post!

In the meantime Octavius has taken preventive measures to block Nova
Roma's website from a repeat attack from that URL. Unfortunately
it's a piece of badly written software that any one can use from
anywhere so there is no guarantee it won't happen again.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Magister Aranearius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28446 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
---Salve Quinte Cassi:

Thank you for this information, and thanks to Marcus Octavius for
his effort as well. I've never seen anything quite like this,
although attachment viruses are rather abundant on our various
NR/Yahoo Lists.

I'm sure you've settled a few fears regarding email securities, etc.
and other related concerns.

Vale,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@c...>
wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Octavius has confirmed that a web crawler program aka "a spider"
> trolled Nova Roma's website tripping people's password reset
forms.
> Most likely it was an attempt to harvest email addresses to
bombard
> you with yet more spam.
>
> The reset form function only sends an email to the address that
> you've provided Nova Roma, giving you instructions on how to reset
> your password. Unless someone else has access to that email
account
> you have nothing to worry about. However, if you feel insecure in
> light of this spider attack you can always change your password
> anyway. Please don't use "spider" as it would be too obvious
after
> this post!
>
> In the meantime Octavius has taken preventive measures to block
Nova
> Roma's website from a repeat attack from that URL. Unfortunately
> it's a piece of badly written software that any one can use from
> anywhere so there is no guarantee it won't happen again.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> Magister Aranearius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28447 From: Marcus Gladius Agricola Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "faustamartianaminervalis"
<pazuzuhammer@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I'm starting to feel neglected - I only had one attempt. :) I ignored
> it, as instructed. No harm done.
>
> Vale,
>
> Fausta Martiana Minervalis
>
>

Salve Minervalis,

Just one for me too. I took it as a good chance to replace my silly
weak one word password with a long alphanumeric pseudorandom string.
It is a good thing to do, probably.

M. Gladius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28448 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-04
Subject: Re: Password
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pat <p-mclaughlin@c...> wrote:
> I experienced the same attempt, same source. I forwarded it to
the webmaster.
>
> So, (rising from my profound ennui with the current squabbling) is
this a
> Boni or Moderati plot? Or has some other nefarious group arrived
on the scene?
>

It is neither. It's something far worse in my book, spammers
attempting to harvest email addresses using an ineptly
written "spider" program that tripped everyone's password reset form
at least once. A legitimate search engine "spider" is not going to
go making "post" attempts on every form it encounters.

> Let me know if we find the password culprit; I'd like him(her?)
hurled from
> the Tarpeian Rock. I have little tolerance for that kind of crap)

No one's password has been stolen as the "token link" email is only
sent to the email address provided to Nova Roma regardless of the
URL that made the "post" request.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28449 From: AnglMscOG@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Password
Salvete,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that got it. I was beginning to wonder what
was going on. It was from the same identity as everyone else's.

Valete,
Lucia Ambrosia Apollinaris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28450 From: Seia Silvania Atia Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
My official address got 2 password reset requests. This happens a
couple of times a year. I don't know if there IS a way around it.

Pax
Crys

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Octavius has confirmed that a web crawler program aka "a spider"
> trolled Nova Roma's website tripping people's password reset
forms.
> Most likely it was an attempt to harvest email addresses to
bombard
> you with yet more spam.
>
> The reset form function only sends an email to the address that
> you've provided Nova Roma, giving you instructions on how to reset
> your password. Unless someone else has access to that email
account
> you have nothing to worry about. However, if you feel insecure in
> light of this spider attack you can always change your password
> anyway. Please don't use "spider" as it would be too obvious
after
> this post!
>
> In the meantime Octavius has taken preventive measures to block
Nova
> Roma's website from a repeat attack from that URL. Unfortunately
> it's a piece of badly written software that any one can use from
> anywhere so there is no guarantee it won't happen again.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> Magister Aranearius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28451 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Salvete omnes.

Today on post 28425 G. Equitius Cato attempted to exert pressure on
me by indicating that he had retained posts of mine to an,
apparently, defunct list which I knew at that time as Volcanus. This
followed a day of my attempting to elicit from Cato or Troianus the
specifics of what the moderati stood for. You can all read that
chain of posts for yourself, if you haven't already done so.

The only explanation for Cato's actions is that he was attempting to
intimidate me into silence concerning the moderati, presumably
through fear he may release those posts to my fellow Boni. I
consider this a very shabby attempt at blackmail.

In that same post he alluded to me, not by name but by fact, as
either "Turncoat, double agent, spy, liar" I refute all of those
calumnies utterly. I require Cato to either provide proof of those
facts, irrefutable proof and not half-baked theories, to this list
where he slandered me, or to withdraw them. I also call on Cato to
apologize publicly for his unbelievably crass attempt at
intimidating me though barefaced threats.

Gn. Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28452 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@c...> wrote:
> Salve Deci Iuni,
>
> > the Boni were formed to
> > combat increasingly concerted and organized factionalism on
> > the "modernist" side of the fence. The impending election of C.
> > Fabius Quintilianus in 2002 and the fear--which turned out to be
well
> > founded--of the creation of a large bureaucracy (Cohors) spurred
the
> > creation of the Boni. In a very real way, the Cohors created the
> > Boni.
>
> The Boni existed as an identifiable faction - with that name - long
> before. The boni_nr list on Yahoo was created on Sep 5, 2002,
> more than two months before Caeso announced his intention of
> running for Consul. The Boni existed when Caeso was only an Aedile.

Long before? It was only a month or so before election announcements.
His plans to run began in the summer, it was no real secret, just
like it's no secret people right now are no doubt making plans for
various campaigns.

> As for the fear being well founded... that's a bit like saying
> you have a well founded fear of hats, or cheese. What harm did
> Caeso ever do to you at that point,

Quintilianus (it's kind of rude to refer to him as Caeso you know)
has never done me any harm at any point. Why would he? I like and
respect the man. I don't agree with him politically but that's only
politics. I view political opponents as just that--political
opponents, not enemies. No offense but you should try it sometime.

>and what harm did his large
> staff do to Nova Roma?

The whole concept of a large staff smacked of the imperial period,
not the republican. I viewed it as setting a precedent for a large
permanent bureaucracy though so far that doesn 't seem to be the
case.

> The Boni reaction to his appointments was disgusting. In the first
> days of January, the new Consul was abused and villified, and there
> were public calls for a veto. Never before had a Consul been
>treated so shabbily, so early in his term.

> Your behaviour in January caused our own unnamed faction to grow -

Don't say "your behavior." For one thing, I agree it wasn't a pretty
sight heavily criticizing the consul so early in his term, though
some of his most outspoken critics were not Boni. If you'll recall, I
didn't publicly participate in that affair, though I lobbied
Quintilinus privately to reconsider his appointments.


> by attacking everyone associated with Caeso in a small way, most
> of them became much stronger allies of his, and of ours.

I have no doubt of that, which is why I preferred to work behind the
scenes. I didn't want to create martyrs on your side over the issue,
though in turn the Boni did grow in strength as a result of that
affair.

> Before that, I had though that the problem in NR politics was
> simply that Sulla and I mix like oil and water,

Hmm, I don't know, I've always thought you guys fought too much for
it to be hate. ;-)

>and that things
> would return to normal once we were no longer consuls; but
> on the second day of Caeso's term, when an innocuous series
> of appointments met with an obscene over-reation, it became
> evident that the Boni intended to continue the fight.

Continue? That's really when the fight started.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28453 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Salve Caesar ~

On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:

> Cato.
>
> I have not been "caught".

True ~ you identified yourself.

> You tried to blackmail me.

"Blackmail" requires "demands" does it not? There were no demands;
Therefore it wasn't "blackmail".

> It failed.

What? The non-existent "Blackmail"? Of course it "failed" ~ it didn't
exist!

> You have no dignity for me to lecture you on.
>
This from the Bonus who alleges "contradiction", "confusion", and
"blackmail" where there is none? You people find no Virtue in anything
that isn't wearing the Boni label, so your inability to see Cato's
Dignitas is just a result of your Boni bias.

> Caesar
>
Vale
~ Troianus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>
>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>
>> "Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."
>>
>> Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you get
>> caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.
>>
>> Vale,
>>
>> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28454 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Troianus.

My post was addressed to Cato and concerns Cato alone. It is not for
you to answer for or try to excuse his actions.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Caesar ~
>
> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> wrote:
>
> > Cato.
> >
> > I have not been "caught".
>
> True ~ you identified yourself.
>
> > You tried to blackmail me.
>
> "Blackmail" requires "demands" does it not? There were no
demands;
> Therefore it wasn't "blackmail".
>
> > It failed.
>
> What? The non-existent "Blackmail"? Of course it "failed" ~ it
didn't
> exist!
>
> > You have no dignity for me to lecture you on.
> >
> This from the Bonus who alleges "contradiction", "confusion", and
> "blackmail" where there is none? You people find no Virtue in
anything
> that isn't wearing the Boni label, so your inability to see Cato's
> Dignitas is just a result of your Boni bias.
>
> > Caesar
> >
> Vale
> ~ Troianus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> > <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> >> G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >>
> >> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >>
> >> "Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."
> >>
> >> Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you
get
> >> caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.
> >>
> >> Vale,
> >>
> >> Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28455 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Salve Caesar ~

If you want to chat with Cato privately, then write him privately; you
have his e-mail address.

It is not for you to decide which Posts I may or may not answer ~ This
is a Public List, and I am a Citizen.

Furthermore, Cato is a friend of mine; don't presume to tell me what
does or does not concern me.

For what it's worth, I think sometimes Cato goes a bit overboard in his
exuberance and I told him so after the Post in question; but I also
believe you have misinterpreted his words ~ I know for a fact you
misconstrued what he meant about the Volcanus Posts because he and I
have discussed this privately.

Vale
~ Troianus
On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 02:25 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:

> Troianus.
>
> My post was addressed to Cato and concerns Cato alone. It is not for
> you to answer for or try to excuse his actions.
>
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>> Salve Caesar ~
>>
>> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cato.
>>>
>>> I have not been "caught".
>>
>> True ~ you identified yourself.
>>
>>> You tried to blackmail me.
>>
>> "Blackmail" requires "demands" does it not? There were no
> demands;
>> Therefore it wasn't "blackmail".
>>
>>> It failed.
>>
>> What? The non-existent "Blackmail"? Of course it "failed" ~ it
> didn't
>> exist!
>>
>>> You have no dignity for me to lecture you on.
>>>
>> This from the Bonus who alleges "contradiction", "confusion", and
>> "blackmail" where there is none? You people find no Virtue in
> anything
>> that isn't wearing the Boni label, so your inability to see Cato's
>> Dignitas is just a result of your Boni bias.
>>
>>> Caesar
>>>
>> Vale
>> ~ Troianus
>>>
>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
>>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>>>>
>>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
>>>>
>>>> "Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."
>>>>
>>>> Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you
> get
>>>> caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.
>>>>
>>>> Vale,
>>>>
>>>> Cato
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28456 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

Hey, let's all jump between Cato and Caesar.

> For what it's worth, I think sometimes Cato goes a bit overboard in
>his
> exuberance and I told him so after the Post in question; but I also
> believe you have misinterpreted his words ~ I know for a fact you
> misconstrued what he meant about the Volcanus Posts because he and
>I have discussed this privately.

Come now, just how could Caesar misconstrue being called Turncoat,
double agent, spy, and liar? Were these really meant to be Victorian
compliments or terms of endearment? ;-)

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28457 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Salve Troianus.

Normally I would debate with you in lieu of Cato. On this I cannot
debate or discuss it with a proxy, friend though you are. I would
not presume to restrict your right to reply, nor be concerned, but I
do have the right to decline to engage you on this matter.

I posted my to this list as this is where this all started and it is
essential for me that I do not stand idly by and let these comments
stand unchallenged, lest people who read those threads presume they
are true.

I could sit on my pride now and wait for Cato to approach me, but I
will write to him in an effort to resolve this.

Cato is indeed impetuous at times.

Vale
Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Caesar ~
>
> If you want to chat with Cato privately, then write him privately;
you
> have his e-mail address.
>
> It is not for you to decide which Posts I may or may not answer ~
This
> is a Public List, and I am a Citizen.
>
> Furthermore, Cato is a friend of mine; don't presume to tell me
what
> does or does not concern me.
>
> For what it's worth, I think sometimes Cato goes a bit overboard
in his
> exuberance and I told him so after the Post in question; but I
also
> believe you have misinterpreted his words ~ I know for a fact you
> misconstrued what he meant about the Volcanus Posts because he and
I
> have discussed this privately.
>
> Vale
> ~ Troianus
> On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 02:25 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:
>
> > Troianus.
> >
> > My post was addressed to Cato and concerns Cato alone. It is not
for
> > you to answer for or try to excuse his actions.
> >
> > Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> > Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> >> Salve Caesar ~
> >>
> >> On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gnaeus Iulius
Caesar
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cato.
> >>>
> >>> I have not been "caught".
> >>
> >> True ~ you identified yourself.
> >>
> >>> You tried to blackmail me.
> >>
> >> "Blackmail" requires "demands" does it not? There were no
> > demands;
> >> Therefore it wasn't "blackmail".
> >>
> >>> It failed.
> >>
> >> What? The non-existent "Blackmail"? Of course it "failed" ~ it
> > didn't
> >> exist!
> >>
> >>> You have no dignity for me to lecture you on.
> >>>
> >> This from the Bonus who alleges "contradiction", "confusion",
and
> >> "blackmail" where there is none? You people find no Virtue in
> > anything
> >> that isn't wearing the Boni label, so your inability to see
Cato's
> >> Dignitas is just a result of your Boni bias.
> >>
> >>> Caesar
> >>>
> >> Vale
> >> ~ Troianus
> >>>
> >>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> >>> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> >>>> G. Equitius Cato Gn. iulio Caeso S.P.D.
> >>>>
> >>>> Salve, Iulius Caesar.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Oh, what tangled webs we weave..."
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you get dizzy when you spin like this? It happens when you
> > get
> >>>> caught, Caesar. Do not presume to lecture me on dignity.
> >>>>
> >>>> Vale,
> >>>>
> >>>> Cato
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28458 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
>
Salve Palladius ~

> Come now, just how could Caesar misconstrue being called Turncoat,
> double agent, spy, and liar? Were these really meant to be Victorian
> compliments or terms of endearment? ;-)
>
> Palladius

Oh, come now, Palladius: Don't try to be cute! Cato said *someone* on
Volcanus apparently passed along information, and used those words to
express his opinion about such a person. There were (at least) three
people it could have been, and that is why Cato didn't name names: He
didn't know who had done it.

It was Caesar who then claimed that it was he that Cato had been
describing; then he turns around and claims he's been slandered because
it WASN'T him! How ludicrous can it get!

If Caesar really thinks he can claim Calumny, then let him file
charges. WE, on the other hand, are perfectly willing to accept his
claim that it WASN'T him and disregard his claim that it was ~ it could
just as easily have been either of the other two, so far as we're
concerned.

There is nothing more to it, which is just as well because it's bedtime.
Have a good night!

Vale
~ Troianus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28459 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Salve Caesar ~

On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 01:51 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:

> Salvete omnes.
>
> Today on post 28425 G. Equitius Cato attempted to exert pressure on
> me by indicating that he had retained posts of mine to an,
> apparently, defunct list which I knew at that time as Volcanus.

No, Cato did not say that he had retained those Posts; he said that
"someone" had. This is true. It was not to "exert pressure" ~ he never
asked you to do or to stop doing anything, so how can you say you were
being pressured? No, he was just letting you know these Posts exist
still.

> This
> followed a day of my attempting to elicit from Cato or Troianus the
> specifics of what the moderati stood for. You can all read that
> chain of posts for yourself, if you haven't already done so.
>
You mean it capped off a lengthy Fishing Expedition on your part. :-)

> The only explanation for Cato's actions is that he was attempting to
> intimidate me into silence concerning the moderati,

If he'd wanted you to shut up, he would have said so ~ Cato doesn't
mince words. You should know that by now. Nor would he feel any need
to "pressure" you ~ he'd just tell you to sod off, or simply cease
replying. We feel no need to "silence" you, Caesar, or we wouldn't
have indulged this Fishing Expedition of yours for as long as we have.
Now, however, we're going to have to end it: We have better things to
do. New people, among other things.

> presumably
> through fear he may release those posts to my fellow Boni.

Neat trick that would be. He isn't the one who has them.

> I consider this a very shabby attempt at blackmail.

If it were any form of Blackmail, then it would indeed have been
shoddily done since no demands were ever made; however, it wasn't
"blackmail" in any way, shape, or form. It was just F.Y.I.
>
> In that same post he alluded to me, not by name but by fact, as
> either "Turncoat, double agent, spy, liar" I refute all of those
> calumnies utterly.

If it was "by fact", "not by name" but you stood forth and said "It was
me!", then how can you "refute" it?

The reason Cato didn't name names is because there were several people
there at the beginning who promptly disappeared soon afterwards; it
could have been any of them. It was YOU who stepped forth and said it
was you ~ but now seem to be claiming it wasn't. Which is it?

Cato posted his opinion of an unknown person; you then stepped forth
and claimed credit, that it was you. Now you're saying you feel
"slandered", and that it wasn't you. You can't blame Cato for his
opinion of an unknown and thus un-named individual ~ it was an opinion,
and YOU were never named for a good reason: We don't know that it was
you. You claimed it was, now you claim it wasn't. You can claim it
either way, but you cannot claim slander.

> I require Cato to either provide proof of those
> facts, irrefutable proof and not half-baked theories, to this list

He said someone did it; he didn't say it was you, Caesar ~ YOU did.
Now you deny it as "calumnies" ~ fine, but don't claim Cato ever
accused you of anything: He only said that *someone* did, and there
were (at least) three people who it might have been. You say it wasn't
you, then fine ~ we accept your retraction.
>
> where he slandered me,

He did nothing of the sort. If you feel you were slandered, file
charges and you will be proven wrong.

> or to withdraw them.

There is nothing to withdrawal. He never said it was you, just someone
~ and there were at least three possibilities. YOU were the only one
who said it was you, so YOU withdrawal it!

> I also call on Cato to
> apologize publicly for his unbelievably crass attempt at
> intimidating me though barefaced threats.
>
He just might apologize ~ Cato's a nice guy ~ but let's be clear about
this: He never threatened you, he informed you that the Posts still
exist ~ which they do, or so I'm told. I don't know what they
contain, and nor do I care; you claimed that you don't care about the
contents either, and now you claim you are "threatened" by them. Which
is it? Doesn't matter; it wasn't a "threat" ~ and Cato doesn't owe you
squat.

> Gn. Iulius Caesar
>
Vale
~ Troianus
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28460 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Retraction required from G. Equitius Cato
Troianus.

As I said, I decline to debate this with a proxy.

Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Caesar ~
>
> On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 01:51 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
wrote:
>
> > Salvete omnes.
> >
> > Today on post 28425 G. Equitius Cato attempted to exert pressure
on
> > me by indicating that he had retained posts of mine to an,
> > apparently, defunct list which I knew at that time as Volcanus.
>
> No, Cato did not say that he had retained those Posts; he said
that
> "someone" had. This is true. It was not to "exert pressure" ~ he
never
> asked you to do or to stop doing anything, so how can you say you
were
> being pressured? No, he was just letting you know these Posts
exist
> still.
>
> > This
> > followed a day of my attempting to elicit from Cato or Troianus
the
> > specifics of what the moderati stood for. You can all read that
> > chain of posts for yourself, if you haven't already done so.
> >
> You mean it capped off a lengthy Fishing Expedition on your
part. :-)
>
> > The only explanation for Cato's actions is that he was
attempting to
> > intimidate me into silence concerning the moderati,
>
> If he'd wanted you to shut up, he would have said so ~ Cato
doesn't
> mince words. You should know that by now. Nor would he feel any
need
> to "pressure" you ~ he'd just tell you to sod off, or simply cease
> replying. We feel no need to "silence" you, Caesar, or we
wouldn't
> have indulged this Fishing Expedition of yours for as long as we
have.
> Now, however, we're going to have to end it: We have better things
to
> do. New people, among other things.
>
> > presumably
> > through fear he may release those posts to my fellow Boni.
>
> Neat trick that would be. He isn't the one who has them.
>
> > I consider this a very shabby attempt at blackmail.
>
> If it were any form of Blackmail, then it would indeed have been
> shoddily done since no demands were ever made; however, it wasn't
> "blackmail" in any way, shape, or form. It was just F.Y.I.
> >
> > In that same post he alluded to me, not by name but by fact, as
> > either "Turncoat, double agent, spy, liar" I refute all of those
> > calumnies utterly.
>
> If it was "by fact", "not by name" but you stood forth and
said "It was
> me!", then how can you "refute" it?
>
> The reason Cato didn't name names is because there were several
people
> there at the beginning who promptly disappeared soon afterwards;
it
> could have been any of them. It was YOU who stepped forth and
said it
> was you ~ but now seem to be claiming it wasn't. Which is it?
>
> Cato posted his opinion of an unknown person; you then stepped
forth
> and claimed credit, that it was you. Now you're saying you feel
> "slandered", and that it wasn't you. You can't blame Cato for his
> opinion of an unknown and thus un-named individual ~ it was an
opinion,
> and YOU were never named for a good reason: We don't know that it
was
> you. You claimed it was, now you claim it wasn't. You can claim
it
> either way, but you cannot claim slander.
>
> > I require Cato to either provide proof of those
> > facts, irrefutable proof and not half-baked theories, to this
list
>
> He said someone did it; he didn't say it was you, Caesar ~ YOU
did.
> Now you deny it as "calumnies" ~ fine, but don't claim Cato ever
> accused you of anything: He only said that *someone* did, and
there
> were (at least) three people who it might have been. You say it
wasn't
> you, then fine ~ we accept your retraction.
> >
> > where he slandered me,
>
> He did nothing of the sort. If you feel you were slandered, file
> charges and you will be proven wrong.
>
> > or to withdraw them.
>
> There is nothing to withdrawal. He never said it was you, just
someone
> ~ and there were at least three possibilities. YOU were the only
one
> who said it was you, so YOU withdrawal it!
>
> > I also call on Cato to
> > apologize publicly for his unbelievably crass attempt at
> > intimidating me though barefaced threats.
> >
> He just might apologize ~ Cato's a nice guy ~ but let's be clear
about
> this: He never threatened you, he informed you that the Posts
still
> exist ~ which they do, or so I'm told. I don't know what they
> contain, and nor do I care; you claimed that you don't care about
the
> contents either, and now you claim you are "threatened" by them.
Which
> is it? Doesn't matter; it wasn't a "threat" ~ and Cato doesn't
owe you
> squat.
>
> > Gn. Iulius Caesar
> >
> Vale
> ~ Troianus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28461 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Caesar;

If you post was to Cato and Cato alone, then why didn't make it a private
post?

Instead you prefered to muddy up my weekend by posting yet more politcal
crap that NO ONE but you cares about.

---> get a life. Stop role-playing. You live in the 21st century. You are
sitting in front of a computer, NOT dressed in a toga in the forum. No one
is impressed by your rhetoric. Read a book, walk your dog, spend time with
your family, but stop posting these constantly irritating politcal posts. No
one cares.

Regards;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/5/2004 2:27:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gn_iulius_caesar@... writes:

Troianus.

My post was addressed to Cato and concerns Cato alone. It is not for
you to answer for or try to excuse his actions.

Caesar





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28462 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
----- Original Message -----
From: <AthanasiosofSpfd@...>

> Instead you prefered to muddy up my weekend by posting yet more politcal
> crap that NO ONE but you cares about.

Actually it's posts like this that I take exception to. I'd have a lot more
respect for you if you said that you thought it was political crap that YOU
don't care about.

Trust me, you're not psychic so please don't presume to think you know how
I, or the rest of the Nova Roman citizens, feel or what we do or do not care
about. I'll make up my own mind about issues that are posted and I certainly
don't need you to speak publicly on my behalf.

Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28463 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Modius

Read the thread. It should be obvious, even to you, why I posted it
here.

Caesar.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> Caesar;
>
> If you post was to Cato and Cato alone, then why didn't make it a
private
> post?
>
> Instead you prefered to muddy up my weekend by posting yet more
politcal
> crap that NO ONE but you cares about.
>
> ---> get a life. Stop role-playing. You live in the 21st
century. You are
> sitting in front of a computer, NOT dressed in a toga in the
forum. No one
> is impressed by your rhetoric. Read a book, walk your dog, spend
time with
> your family, but stop posting these constantly irritating
politcal posts. No
> one cares.
>
> Regards;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 9/5/2004 2:27:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> gn_iulius_caesar@y... writes:
>
> Troianus.
>
> My post was addressed to Cato and concerns Cato alone. It is not
for
> you to answer for or try to excuse his actions.
>
> Caesar
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28464 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Good Morning!
O.S.D. G. Equitius Cato

Salvete, omnes.

And happy birthday to Louis "the Sun King" XIV (A.D.1638) and
Johannes "I can write music better than anybody alive --- except my
father" Christian Bach (A.D. 1735).

Now, on to more pressing matters.

Caesar has written me privately and I am preparing to respond to him
in like manner. I am sure that one (or both) of us will return this
to the public forum if that is seen as necessary.

As to the Moderati and how we view the future of Nova Roma: as I
said in one of my original posts (as the response to Caesar's clear
request for a "general" outline of the Moderati position), when it
is appropriate to present our stance on a particular issue --- one
that is being actively discussed --- we will do so.

If one of us runs for public office, no doubt a more detailed
explication of the Moderati view on several issues will be offered
at once, so as to let our fellow-citizens understand more fully how
we see what we offer as being valuable to a more energetic and
positive Nova Roma.

But the root and foundation of the Moderati view is that syncretism,
adaptation, a willingness to blend and mold the social and ethical
advances of the past 1700 years onto the sturdy frame of the
Republican Roman system is not only possible, but absolutely
necessary for Nova Roma to grow and thrive. Just as we are proud to
wear a toga in the 28th century AUC, we are proud to acknowledge
what human history and experience have taught us SINCE Romam
citizens wore them the first time around.

VIVAT NOVA ROMA IN AETERNUM.

Valete bene, omnes.

Cato
Moderatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28465 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
> Long before? It was only a month or so before election announcements.
> His plans to run began in the summer,

He was planning to run for Praetor at first, not Consul; it was only
due to the need to have two strong candidates for Consul that,
late in the year, he changed the plan.

> I view political opponents as just that--political
> opponents, not enemies. No offense but you should try it sometime.

I view you as a political opponent, not as an enemy. The same goes
for Caesar, Scaurus, Aventina, and several other Boni - for all of those
I disagree with on political rather than ethical grounds.

> > Your behaviour in January caused our own unnamed faction to grow -
>
> Don't say "your behavior."

Curse this imprecise language! If English had a distinct second-person
plural, I'd have written something like "y'all's behavior" there. I didn't
remember whether you personally were involved, and was referring to
the Boni and their various hangers-on as a group.

> Continue? That's really when the fight started.

What was the summer of 2002 then? That was as nasty as anything that
came the following year, and involved most of the same people, in the
same two camps - even if neither had a name at that point.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

Curiosity killed the cat;
Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28466 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Gaius Modius Athanasius Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

Then you have my sincerest apologies.

I should have stated that *I* grow tired of the it, instead of presuming to
speak for everyone.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/5/2004 7:45:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
k.a.wright@... writes:

Actually it's posts like this that I take exception to. I'd have a lot more
respect for you if you said that you thought it was political crap that YOU
don't care about.

Trust me, you're not psychic so please don't presume to think you know how
I, or the rest of the Nova Roman citizens, feel or what we do or do not care
about. I'll make up my own mind about issues that are posted and I certainly
don't need you to speak publicly on my behalf.

Flavia Lucilla Merula






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28467 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
Gaius Modius Athanasius G. Equitio Cato salutem dicit

I am interested in how this view of things manifests itself on the issues.
As a "traditionalists" I am concerned about keeping a link with the past,
while embracing the present. I am not opposed to adaption, as long as it is
done with an eye to tradition. For example I -- personally -- don't have an
ethical problem with woman pontifices because I view pontifex as more of a
political and administrative role than that of flamen or vestal. But I think it
appropriate to consult the Gods as a means of re-negotiating the "contract" of
the Pax Deorum.

Regarding issues like animal sacrifice -- not this debate again -- I think
the current decretum on animal sacrifice is a moderate position and one that I
can readily accept. Animal sacrifice was a common form of ritual work, and
it was also used to prepare animals for consumption. I believe, in our
modern world that if the same curcumstances prevail then animal sacrifice is just
as legitimate now as it was back then. If the animal is worth of the Gods,
and it is going to be consumed then it would be more meritorious to consecrate
the animal to the Gods then to send it to a dirty slaughter house. Some
people feel that all meat consumption is wrong. I don't necessarily agree that
it is wrong, although from a health perspective I will acknowledge that it is
healthier to be a non-meat eater (I did it for six months last year, and lost
weight and felt better).

These are just two issues that divide Nova Romans into different factions.
I am interested in how others perceive these issues, and other issues. I
suspect they will be very important issues to address come election time.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/5/2004 9:21:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:

But the root and foundation of the Moderati view is that syncretism,
adaptation, a willingness to blend and mold the social and ethical
advances of the past 1700 years onto the sturdy frame of the
Republican Roman system is not only possible, but absolutely
necessary for Nova Roma to grow and thrive. Just as we are proud to
wear a toga in the 28th century AUC, we are proud to acknowledge
what human history and experience have taught us SINCE Romam
citizens wore them the first time around.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28468 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
G. Equitius Cato G. Modio Athanasio S.P.D.

Salve, Modius Athanasius.

Your post brings up an very good point (well, several, but one I'd
like to address): adaptation, with a link to the past. It is the
position of the Moderati that any innovation (or supposed
innovation), be it legislative or otherwise, should answer this
question: "Does this bring us closer to the spirit of the
ancients?" It is absolutely possible to innovate and/or adapt but
still preserve the spirit of the ancients. How would we guage this?
by asking that any suggested change/adaptation/innovation be
accompanied by a source text from the ancients supporting it OR show
that the ancients would have supported it, using a philosophical or
legal construction. I've mentioned this on the PeaceNR List, I
believe, but an example would go something like this:

Say I wanted to pass a law requiring all male citizens to wear togas
in public.

LEX CATONI TOGATUS
"All male citizens must wear a toga when appearing in public."

Now, I would quote a source directly supporting it, like this:

"All citizens are required to wear the garb of a citizen when in
public" - LEX VEDIA TOGATUS (214 B.C.), Livy, "Histories", XV.I.22

OR quote a source that would philosophically support it, like:

"It is the singular glory of a Roman that he wears the toga, striding
across continents in a garment permitted only those whose destiny it
is to rule the world and make mankind obey." - CICERO, "In Harmonium
Mundum", IV.3.ii

In other words, I would look back with a clear eye, in order to move
forward. (P.S. - I made both "source" quotations up - they don't
really exist) It would be the responsibility of the person proposing
the idea to support it, and the responsibility of the citizens to
question, suggest, support, or argue against it.

I hope this makes sense.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28469 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
A. Apollonius Cordus Decio Iunio Palladio Senatori
omnibusque sal.

It was interesting to hear your explanation of the
origins of the Boni (or perhaps for accuracy I ought
to say your perception of the origins, for apparently
Senator Germanicus has a different perception, and
perhaps even your 'co-conspirators' [humour intended]
will have different memories).

I hope you'll permit me to make an observation:

> The whole concept of a large staff smacked of the
> imperial period,
> not the republican. I viewed it as setting a
> precedent for a large
> permanent bureaucracy though so far that doesn 't
> seem to be the
> case.

This may have been a reasonable fear at the time, but
as you say, that particular bombshell has turned out
to be a dud. As so often, the protest group has
outlived the object of its protests. This is one of
the problems with organized (even loosely organized)
political groups: they may be formed to address
particular issues, and rightly so, but once they have
been formed something strange happens. Silently, and
quite unnoticed by the various members, the original
objective - whatever it was - is replaced by the
group's instinct to perpetuate its own existence.

Some new and worthy cause always comes up, doesn't it?
And each individual cause or project seems perfectly
reasonable; but when you look back over the course of
a year or two, it begins to seem like the group is
really using a succession of issues to camouflage the
fact that it has no intention of ever disbanding.

What, one might say, does it matter, so long as these
important causes are being championed by someone?
Isn't it much simpler to keep the same group than to
disband it every time and form a new one when a new
issue comes up? But if you do the latter, you find
that the membership of each group differs somewhat -
naturally so, since people feel differently about
different things. If, on the other hand, the group is
the same one it has always been, then people who are
in the group feel under some pressure to agree with
the new cause, or at least to keep quiet about it, and
at the same time the members of the group fail to make
common cause with non-members who feel the same about
the issue in question.

And if a member finds himself too often or too
seriously in disagreement with the other members (or,
rather, with the general attitude of the group as a
whole, for the group begins to have its own
personality which is not entirely determined by the
various members), he will have to leave, often with
recriminations and feelings of betrayal. On the other
hand, people who often agree with the group will join.
After a while it may be that none of the original
members remain. But the group itself continues,
doesn't it? Not only has the group become more than
the sum of its members, the members have become
dispensible to the group in its quest to perpetuate
itself.

And it's around this time that the group becomes a
focus of loyalty in itself. "You want to leave? Why
not? Don't you like the group? Hasn't it helped and
supported you? Don't you believe in the ideals it
stands for?" Or, "Join our group! It has a great and
honourable history! It stands for all the best things
in the world!" People like their groups. They promote
them and work for them. They advertise them. They give
them money.

And before you know it, it's what Cicero said in the
De Officiis: everyone's loyalty and hard work is for
the sake of some group or other, and no one has any
energy left for the res publica which the groups are
supposed to be helping. Quite possibly the groups do
help, but how much more could be done by
re-channelling directly into the res publica all the
energy which goes into forming groups, maintaining
groups, protecting the reputations of groups (yes,
plenty of that in the last few days), doing down other
groups (that too), trying to distinguish one group
from another (always tricky), and even writing lengthy
messages about why groups are bad?

Compared to this, what does one actually gain by
forming a faction? Can five people in a faction really
achieve more than five people on their own, or five
people who talk to one another in private e-mails? And
even if they can, why not form it for a particular,
stated purpose, so that everyone knows what it's for
and so that it can be dismantled when that purpose is
achieved, with no recriminations or chest-beating?

I have to say, without wishing to be personal, that I
find it hard to understand what you in particular get
out of being in a faction, since you seem quite
capable of making up your own mind and carrying out
your own decisions without the need for such a
support-mechanism. Don't answer this, because I don't
want to cause trouble between you and your friends,
but is there really anything keeping you in the Boni
except that leaving would be too troublesome? That, of
course, is precisely how groups get lives of their
own: it just takes too much effort for their members
to keep them in check.

They're like bob-sleds: you get inside, you set it
going, and whee! off you go. Then you find you can't
control where it goes, you can't get out, and you
can't stop it.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28470 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
A. Apollonius Cordus C. Equitio Catoni amico
omnibusque, coniuratoribus praesertim.

> If one of us runs for public office, no doubt a more
> detailed
> explication of the Moderati view on several issues
> will be offered
> at once, so as to let our fellow-citizens understand
> more fully how
> we see what we offer as being valuable to a more
> energetic and
> positive Nova Roma.

Would your group, and indeed any others there may be,
like to give the populus an undertaking that any
member running for office will declare his membership
before the opening of the polls?





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28471 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
----- Original Message -----
From: <AthanasiosofSpfd@...>

> Gaius Modius Athanasius Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
>
> Then you have my sincerest apologies.
>
> I should have stated that *I* grow tired of the it, instead of presuming
to
> speak for everyone.

Thank you - I accept your apology. I simply got angry because I saw
someone, whose opinions I have on occasion regarded quite highly have his
dignitas inpugned and then was told that no one was interested in hearing
his rebuttal. I had no wish to have anyone presume that I was so
uninterested in justice but your apology was gracious and swiftly tendered
so - thank you.

Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28472 From: k.a.wright Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
----- Original Message -----
From: "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>

> Caesar has written me privately and I am preparing to respond to him
> in like manner. I am sure that one (or both) of us will return this
> to the public forum if that is seen as necessary.
>
> As to the Moderati and how we view the future of Nova Roma: as I
> said in one of my original posts........

Thank you for your explanation of the Moderati and I am glad you intend to
respond privately with Caesar. I do find it quite interesting that your
priorities lie in first explaining yourself to the list publicly and only
then dealing with your private correspondence.

Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28473 From: John Dobbins Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The "F-Word"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@c...> wrote:

>
> Curse this imprecise language! If English had a distinct second-person
> plural, I'd have written something like "y'all's behavior" there. I
didn't
> remember whether you personally were involved, and was referring to
> the Boni and their various hangers-on as a group.

Only a minority of Boni members took part in speaking out against
CFQ's Cohors, along with citizens who were never members, and I wasn't
one of them. Rather the opposite since after a while I told the Boni
members that they had made their point and continuing to speak out
would become counter productive.

That Does NOT mean that I in any way approved of the practice. It
means that I wasn't a mind reader, so I had no idea of what CFQ's
intent was. I Doubt that he ever heard of Tamny Hall, the most corrupt
of all American political machines, but if he had used Tamny Hall as a
model for setting up a political macnine the end result would have
been an organization like his Cohors. Regardless of this similarity
being an accident or an intentional act the patronage system that
political machines rely on was put in place with the creation of the
Cohors. Even if CFQ had no intention of abusing it, the precedent for
an abusive system had been created.

>
> > Continue? That's really when the fight started.
>
> What was the summer of 2002 then? That was as nasty as anything that
> came the following year, and involved most of the same people, in the
> same two camps - even if neither had a name at that point.
>

I Would date the start back to December of 2001. That is when Strabo,
then a member of Gens Cornelia, finished first in the Praetors race
ahead of two people that many thought more qualified for the postion.
From that point on there was a growing tendancy to look at Gens
Cornelia as some kind of political organization and the events of the
summer of 2002 grew out of that perception.

LSD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28474 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
G. Equitius Cato F. Lucillae Merulae S.P.D.

Salve, Lucilla Merula.

I'm glad you find *something* about me quite interesting. Better
than being thought dull. :-)

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "k.a.wright" <k.a.wright@n...>
wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
>
> > Caesar has written me privately and I am preparing to respond to
him
> > in like manner. I am sure that one (or both) of us will return
this
> > to the public forum if that is seen as necessary.
> >
> > As to the Moderati and how we view the future of Nova Roma: as I
> > said in one of my original posts........
>
> Thank you for your explanation of the Moderati and I am glad you
intend to
> respond privately with Caesar. I do find it quite interesting that
your
> priorities lie in first explaining yourself to the list publicly
and only
> then dealing with your private correspondence.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28475 From: Michael Loughlin Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: introduction
Yes the arm chair degree is cheaper and you learn more in area's of interest too something universities don't always allow...I've already signed up for serveral of the Soliditas "Po" thank you for the information and the welcome as to other citizens who have welcomed me...
Vale,
Quintus cassius Brutus

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:
--- Salve Quinte Cassi:

Well met!

My name is Pompeia, "Po" for short, and welcome to NR.

I 'hear' you when you talk about student loans vs. the desire to
pick up another degree, diploma etc. I enjoy history, and I find
that, since I don't really 'need' the degree for my nursing career,
I do alot of home study as an armchair historian. It's cheaper and
you learn as you can. I supplied some free humour for my nursing
collegues one evening when I trotted into work with the "Cambridge
Book of Ancient History' under my arm, as opposed to a Daniel
Steele...It's all what you are interested in, and 'Rome' has been my
forte since I was a kid. I have learned a tremendous amount about
Roman Military History, Roman Politics, Religio particulars, and
even how to sew a decent stola while being here in Nova Roma, and
I'm sure you could learn much too. We have some well learned
individuals here who are not stingy in giving references from where
you can learn more.

If you are interested in military history, there is Sodalitas
Militarium

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodalitasmilitarium

There are other Sodalitates in NR and groups which discuss various
topics of interests related to NR (they are not all political
factions, trust me:)) A search of Nova Roma through a search engine
will get you some quick URLs and I 'think' new subscribers still get
a list of all the main groups. Plus there are provincia mailing
lists. I am not sure which provincia you are in...if you go to
school close to home I suspect its Nova Britannia, and they do have
a mailing list.

Anyway, a warm welcome, and if you have any questions, do ask.

Vale
Pompeia

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28476 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: The Password is "Spider"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Seia Silvania Atia"
<DomusLudus@j...> wrote:
> My official address got 2 password reset requests. This happens a
> couple of times a year. I don't know if there IS a way around it.
>
> Pax
> Crys

Salve,

There is no way to prevent it happening in the future short of
banning every URL from accessing Nova Roma's website. That would be
as helpful as a tourniquet for a nose bleed. All that can be done
is note the URL sources of "spider attacks" and ban those URL's from
accessing the website in the future.

I'm sure Nova Roma's website gets spiders attempting to harvest
email addresses all the time. We just don't know about it because
they are well written spiders unlike the poorly written one that
just left such an obvious trail.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28477 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Ludi Romani: rules for the photo quiz
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

Just how well are you able to identify photos depicting the glory of Rome?

Well here's your chance to show the entire republic and all peregrini your expertise!!

Each day, for 10 days, a picture will be displayed... something related to Roman engineering, architecture, sculptures, arts in general.

Your job, once you've viewed the photo of a given day, is to write the Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus <M_Iulius@...> (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) and identify the subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject.

Easy, right? For citizens of Nova Roma this otta be a snap :)

For the first 5 photos displayed (from Sept 6th to 10th), the following scores will be awarded:

1 if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.

For the last 5 photos displayed (from Sept 13rd to 17th), which will be just a 'wee bit' more
difficult to identify both subject matter and location, you will receive:

2 point for being partly correct, and 3 points for being completely correct.

The keenest eyes and the most historically learned of the Ludi Romani will be determined by who has the most points at the end of the 10 days.

Every new picture will be displayed at around 12.00(Roman time) beginning later today (now being almost midnight in Rome); you will have 24 hrs to send your answer!


Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!




M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
-------------------------
Aedilis Curulis
Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
---------------------------------------------
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
---------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28478 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Fw: [Explorator] explorator 7.19
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Meadows" <dmeadows@...>
To: <explorator@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:49 AM
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 7.19


>
>
> ================================================================
> explorator 7.19 September 5, 2004
> ================================================================
> Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
> hours from the time of publication.
>
> For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
> and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
> arrives otherwise!!!
> ================================================================
> ================================================================
>
> Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Bill Kennedy, Adrian Murdoch, Clark
> Whelton, Croman mac Nessa, Chris Hopkins, Donna Hurst,
> Fay Geenhuizen, Francis Deblauwe, fireflye, Glenn Meyer, Hernan
> Astudillo, Joan Griffith, John McMahon, John Hill, Joseph Lauer,
> John McChesney-Young, Louis A. Okin, Maurice O'Sullivan, Paul
> Montgomery, Peter Archdale, Sally Winchester, Tony Jackson,
> W. Richard Frahm, and
> Yonatan Nadelman for headses upses this week (as always hoping I
> have left no one out).
>
>
> Have you visited our blog yet?
>
> http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism/
>
> If you're using an (ahem) old or clunky browser, try accessing
> it via Bloglines:
>
> http://www.bloglines.com/preview?siteid=21809
>
> editor's note: folks who are reluctant to register to some
> of these online sources should visit http://bugmenot.com/ and
> type in the url of the newspaper in question. They will provide
> you (usually) with a useable user name and password. For the
> record, though, I've never had any problems with any of the
> sites used in Explorator ...
>
> editor's note II: last week we suggested a burial of a pile of
> headless bodies had been found in Australia; several folks
> wrote in (thanks!) to point out the find was actually in
> Vanuatu. Apologies for any confusion (especially to producers
> of *Survivor* who, no doubt, will want to make a big deal out
> of this to hype the next installment of that series) [there's
> a repeat of the story in the 'Repeats' section in case you
> missed it]
> ================================================================
> ================================================================
> AFRICA, EUROPE, AND ASIA
> ================================================================
> A Mesolithic site in Scotland:
>
> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1018502004
>
> Road construction has revealed a Bronze Age burial ground in
> Co Down (Ireland):
>
> http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=556975
>
> I think this is a repeat (about a Viking figurine which is
> somehow connected to Seahenge) ... but it's amazing the headline
> on this one got past the editors:
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040823/seahenge.html
>
> One of the big finds announced this past week was a "hidden"
> (duh) tomb very near the pyramid of Khafre/Chephren:
>
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5899361/
> http://tinyurl.com/56pjd (AP via Yahoo)
> http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/9565729.htm
> http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,270892,00.html
> http://tinyurl.com/5emwr (IOL)
> http://tinyurl.com/4y9bb (Australian)
> http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/9565729.htm
>
> Happily, we are getting some English coverage of the 'discovery'
> of a hidden chamber in the Great Pyramid:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6c2c4 (AFP via Yahoo)
> http://tinyurl.com/3j7fo (IOL)
> http://tinyurl.com/6epf8 (Guardian)
>
> ... and it appears there's major head butting going on about it:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3o63w (Seattle PI)
>
> A major coin hoard from the Dead Sea:
>
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/471833.html
>
> Evidence of an 700 b.p. earthquake in Tzfat:
>
> http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=68408
>
> Assorted archaeological news from the Israel Ministry of Foreign
> Affairs (most of which we've mentioned, but there are some nice
> photos):
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4zoly (MFA)
>
> NPR had an interview with Shimon Gibson this week:
>
> http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3877861
>
> al-Ahram has a nice feature on Auguste Mariette:
>
> http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/705/he1.htm
>
> The Torlonia Marbles will soon be viewable by the public:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5rf8d (Guardian)
> http://tinyurl.com/7ydzt (Telegraph)
> http://tinyurl.com/4877a (Reuters)
>
> A pile of amphorae dating to the second century B.C./B.C.E. have
> been found in a pit near Cattolica:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3wr8u (NewRimini ... Italian)
>
> The north slope of the Acropolis will be viewable by tourists
> again:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/69god (Kathimerini)
>
> Chinese history and the Koguryo relics:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4yduk (Korea Times)
>
> Looking for the lost 'Sleeping Buddha':
>
> http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/176389-1053-010.html
>
> A pair of 2000-3000 b.p. burials have been found in Vietnam:
>
> http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2004-08/30/Stories/17.htm
>
> A shipwreck off Ireland discovered five years ago might be
> Oliver Cromwell's flagship:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4m4z8 (Australian)
> ================================================================
> THE AMERICAS
> ================================================================
> Searching for Fort St. Louis:
>
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5866714/
>
> A Woodland site in Ohio is causing excitement:
>
> http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/08/30/ancestral.html
>
> The discovery of a Native American burial ground is delaying
> development of a housing site in L.A.:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6r3s4 (AP via Yahoo)
>
> ...cf. a semi-similar situation in Alabama:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/46tfe (Daily Home)
>
> This week marks the 350th anniversary of the arrival of the
> first Jewish refugees in North America:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/arts/03JEWI.html
>
> NPR had a nice feature on the 'Bladensburg Races' ... a.k.a.
> the burning of Washington by British/Canadian troops:
>
> http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3862200
>
> Searching for relics of the Lewis and Clark expedition ... in
> the Peabody Museum:
>
> http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0831/p18s02-hfks.html
>
> A touristy thing on Tepoztlan:
>
> http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/09/05/travel/05tepotz.html
>
> We've said it before and we'll say it again ... Walmarts and
> archaeological sites just don't mix (this time, near
> Teotihuacan):
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1296985,00.html
> http://tinyurl.com/3ocbz (Reuters via Yahoo)
>
> Seed varieties used by assorted First Nations people have been
> saved from extinction:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5wp5y (La Tercera ... Spanish)
> ================================================================
> ALSO OF INTEREST
> ================================================================
> The 'reconstructing the face' of long-dead people thing seems
> to have peaked a couple of years ago (probably due to that
> UK series 'Meet the Ancestors'), but today there's an
> interesting piece on xray scanning technology being used to
> reconstruct the face of a mummy without unwrapping it:
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040901095031.htm
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5880009/
> http://tinyurl.com/4xznn (Scienceblog)
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996340
>
> Neanderthal life was apparently "no tougher" than that lived
> by present-day Inuit:
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903084421.htm
>
> People in the early Middle Ages were apparently taller than
> we have been conventionally told:
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040902090552.htm
>
> Interesting article on the guy who 'cracked' the Voynich
> manuscript:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6ghp4 (Wired)
>
> The New York Times has a sort of meta-touristy page on things
> to see in Rome:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4d3fy
> see also: http://tinyurl.com/5alfh
>
> ... they also have one for Mexico:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5p7uy
>
> ... also an interesting piece on the place Hermann Melville (and
> some other literary types) lived:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/travel/escapes/03BERK.html
>
> Searching for the Santa Maria:
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/columbus.html
>
> A touristy thing on Libya (there has actually been one of
> these almost every week for the past year ... none of them
> particularly exciting, but it's a slow week):
>
> http://www.iht.com/articles/536381.htm
>
> Nice article on what conservators do:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/42ctl (Journal-Star)
>
> Interesting piece on the Vienna Genesis:
>
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/473092.html
>
> A number of important works were damaged/destroyed in a fire at
> the Anna Amalia Library in Berlin this week:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/04/books/04libr.html
>
> All sorts of things you wanted to know about glass:
>
> http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/305/5689/1407
>
> Poetry through the ages:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5y85h (Toronto Star)
>
> Knights Templar/Masonic stuff:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3uah8 (Star Banner)
>
> Hawaiian influences at Yale:
>
> http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/current/old_yale.html
>
> An archaeologist on her day off:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5yxl9
> ================================================================
> MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
> ================================================================
> Biblical Archaeology Review (September/October):
>
> http://www.bib-arch.org/bswb_BAR/indexBAR.html
>
> Lee Levin, "Rome vs. Carthage: The Day the Earth Trembled":
>
> http://www.historynet.com/mh/blromevscarthage/
>
> Antiquity (September 2004):
>
> http://antiquity.ac.uk/CurrentIssue/currentindex.html
>
> ... see also the updated Project Gallery:
>
> http://antiquity.ac.uk/ProjGall/301.html
>
> Heroic Age (7):
>
> http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/7/toc.html
> ================================================================
> ON THE WEB
> ================================================================
> The Nisa Archaeological Expedition site has been updated for the
> 2004 season:
>
> http://parthia.com/nisa.htm
>
> Early American Large Cents in the National Numismatic
> Collection:
>
> http://staff.jccc.net/scarr/
>
> Conte Collection at the Fitzwilliam Museum (Norman and Angevin
> coins):
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3j6qe
> ================================================================
> CRIME BEAT
> ================================================================
> Jiroft continues to be plundered:
>
> http://www.chn.ir/english/eshownews.asp?no=2812
>
> A commentary piece on the destruction happening in Babylon:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1293931,00.html
>
> Destruction of sites in Hebron?:
>
> http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/9379/
>
> The arrest of some guys for looting sites in Indiana has led
> to the search for some of those sites:
>
> http://www.theindychannel.com/news/3694564/detail.html
> ================================================================
> BOOK REVIEWS
> ================================================================
> Jack Turner, *Spice: The History of a Temptation*:
>
> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/critique.cfm?id=1027112004
>
> Larry and Christopher Merriam, *Spiro Mound: A Photo Essay*:
>
> http://newsok.com/article/1304436/?template=entertainment/main
>
> Tony Perrottet, *Naked Olympics*:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5lhm3 (KRT)
> ================================================================
> PERFORMANCES
> ================================================================
> Warriors of Heaven and Earth (movie):
>
> http://movies2.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/movies/03WAR.html
>
> Hecuba:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3zud4 (Telegraph)
> ================================================================
> EXHIBITIONS
> ================================================================
> National Museum of Prehistory (in the Dordogne):
>
> http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/09/05/travel/05dordogne.html
>
> Assorted works with a 'food theme' at the Met:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/arts/design/03MIMI.html
>
> American Fancy: Exuberance in the Arts, 1790-1840:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/arts/design/03GLUE.html
>
> Play It Again: Asian Games and Pastimes:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/arts/design/03ANTI.html
>
> Courtly Art of the Ancient Maya:
>
> http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/9581324.htm
>
> Great Travellers in Athens:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3tde9 (Kathimerini)
> ================================================================
> CLASSICIST'S CORNER
> ================================================================
> An interview with the producer of the upcoming Alexander flick:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/01/movies/01alex.html
> http://www.iht.com/articles/537043.htm
>
> On Polyclitean (Polyklitan?) proportions:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6slkp (Telegraph)
>
> Latest on the Hannibal flick:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5srcs (kathimerini)
>
> A marathon reading:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6vctm (Newsday)
>
> Latin is alive and well in Utah:
>
> http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595087752,00.html
>
> On Alexander and Rakhi:
>
> http://internationalreporter.net/scripts/headDetails.asp?id=269
> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=558106
>
> Greek bilingualism:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6u89f (Athens News)
>
> The Alexander Desktop is now available for downloading:
>
> http://alexanderthemovie.warnerbros.com/xtreme_desktop/
>
> Vatican Dictionary gets some press:
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/31/1093938925635.html
>
> Alden Smith has become director of the Honors program at Baylor:
>
> http://pr.baylor.edu/story.php?id=005322
>
> A nice article on Shilpal Raval:
>
> http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=26034
>
> Gloucestershire Roman Villa is doing it right:
>
> http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3443881
>
> In case you missed it, Classics is threatened at MSU:
>
> http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/040901/coverstory/index.asp
>
> Akropolis News in Classical Greek (it has returned!):
> http://www.akwn.net/
>
> Radio Finland's Nuntii Latini
> [best accessed via rogueclassicism on Sundays]
>
> Radio Bremen's Der Monatsrückblick - auf Latein
> http://www.radiobremen.de/online/latein/
>
> Weather in Latin:
> http://latin.wunderground.com/
>
> ================================================================
> OBITUARIES
> ================================================================
> David Woodward (Map Historian):
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/obituaries/31woodward.html
> ================================================================
> REPEATS
> ================================================================
> 2700 b.p. tomb from Egypt:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6llaa (La Tercera ... Spanish)
>
> Vanuatu Burials:
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200408/s1188374.htm
> ================================================================
> OTHER SOURCES OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL NEWS
> ================================================================
> About.com Ancient History (blog):
> http://ancienthistory.about.com/
>
> About.com Archaeology (blog):
> http://archaeology.about.com/mbody.htm
>
> Archaeologica:
> http://www.archaeologica.org/NewsPage.htm
>
> Archaeology in Europe (blog):
> http://archaeology.eu.com/weblog/
>
> Archaeology Magazine's Newsbriefs:
> http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=0305/newsbriefs/index
>
> Bible and Interpretation Breaking News:
> http://www.bibleinterp.com/news.htm
>
> CBA Newsfeed:
> http://www.britarch.ac.uk/newsfeed/index.html
>
> CBA Archaeoblog:
> http://www.britarch.ac.uk/archaeoblog/
>
> Classics in Contemporary Culture (blog):
> http://www.people.memphis.edu/~mhooker/ccc.html
>
> Cronaca (blog):
> http://www.cronaca.com/
>
> Egyptology News (blog):
> http://www.egyptology.blogspot.com/
>
> Francis Deblauwe's 'Iraq War and Archaeology' site:
> http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/fdeblauwe/iraq.html
>
> Maritime Underwater Archaeological News:
> http://www.munarchaeology.com/munarchaeology/news/main.htm
>
> Megalithic Portal
> http://www.megalithic.co.uk
>
> Michael Ruggeri's Ancient America and Mesoamerica News:
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Topiltzin-2091/MIKERUGGERISANCIENT
>
> Mirabilis.ca (blog):
> http://www.mirabilis.ca
>
> Paleojudaica (blog):
> http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com
>
> Stone Pages Archaeo News:
> http://www.stonepages.com/news/
>
> Texas A&M Anthropology News Site:
> http://www.tamu.edu/anthropology/news.html
>
> ================================================================
> EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
> the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
> on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
> ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
> to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
> game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
> charge!
> ================================================================
> Useful Addresses
> ================================================================
> Read the latest Explorator on the web at:
> http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism/categories/explorator
>
> Past issues of Explorator are available on the web at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Explorator/messages
>
> To subscribe to Explorator, send a blank email message to:
> mailto:Explorator-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email message to:
> mailto:Explorator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To send a 'heads up' to the editor or contact him for other
> reasons, reply to this message.
> ================================================================
> Explorator is Copyright (c) 2004 David Meadows. Feel free to
> distribute these listings via email to your pals, students,
> teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. These
> links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
> by direct posting or snagging from a usenet group or some other
> email source) without my express written permission. I think it
> is only right that I be made aware of public fora which are
> making use of content gathered in Explorator. Thanks!
> ================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28479 From: Nabarz Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: A Mithras rite of Autumn Equinox
Salve and Nama all!

I hope its ok to post this here?

Its details of a forth coming neo Mithraic rite(Roman cult of
Mithras).

This might be of interest to those based in the UK.

Below is outline and draft one of an public Autumn Equinox rite to be
carried out in week 21/22nd Sept in Oxon, England. If interested in
coming drop me a email.

Regards,
Nabarz

------------------------------------------------------------------
A Mithraic rite at Autumn Equinox.
by writen by Nabarz
(Draft one).

Time: 8:00pm Tuesday Sept 21st (or Wed 22nd)
Meeting place: ceremony will be on a small island in middle of Isis
river in Oxon. A bonfire will be lit to mark the occasion at sunset.


The below ceremony to mark the Autumn Equinox (Mehergan) is
adaptation of Mithras Liturgy (in translation from Greek magical
papyri), and Hymn Lines from Santa Prisca Mithraeum in Rome, Mithra
festival of Persian Mehergan celebrations, The Mystical Hymns of
Orpheus (in translation from Greek, as used in the Eleusian
Mysteries), and some creative writing and reworking on my part.

I have tried to stick to Greeco-Roman classical sources and for a
change tried to avoid using neo-pagan sources.

The ceremony involves number of deities: Pales (mother earth),
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Moon, Sun, Saturn, Mithras.


The version of Mithras Liturgy adapted here is from:
The "Mithras" Liturgy
http://www.hermetic.com/pgm/mithras-liturgy.html
from the Paris Codex
Edited and Translated by Marvin W. Meyer, 1976.



Autumn Equinox

A bonfire will be lit to mark the occasion at sunset.

Props:
-Clearing and setting space.
-Place 7 lit torches, bonfire in centre.
-Set up altar with statue of Mithras slaying the bull.
-symbols of seven planetry deities.
-Raven feather (Mercury)-
-Statue of Anahita (Venus), lamp, veil, spring water in cup (from red
spring of Chalice Well).
-dagger & kit bag (Mars).
-sistrum, incense, & incense burner (Jupiter)
-Honey & scythe (Moon)
-flaming torch(large candle in sun candle holder) (sun).
-staff, libation bowl (Saturn).
-corn/wheat.
-Food and Drinks for the feast of the Bull.
-bottle of Bulls Blood wine(its Hungerian red wine label).

Start by doing the salute to the sun (yoga) three times as warm up
exercise.

Pater: Great kosmokrater (mover of cosmos), O spirit of this place,
and spirit of river Isis and Land of Ox-ford. We ask thy permission
and blessings for this Autumn Equinox rite.

Be gracious to us, 0 Providence and Psyche, as we enact and manifest
these mysteries handed down not for gain but for instruction; and for
an only child we request immortality, O initiates of this our power
[furthermore, it is necessary for you, O daughter, to take the juices
of herbs and spices, which will to you at the end of my holy
treatise], which the great god Helios Mithras ordered to be revealed
to us by his archangel, so that we may ascend into heaven as an
inquirer and behold the universe.

This is the invocation of the ceremony:

Opening:

Fertile Earth Pales who procreates everything.


Guardians of the Seven Gates the Planetry initiates
 Mercury (Corax/Raven)
 Venus (Nymphus/ bee chrysalis or male bride)
 Mars (Miles/ soldier)
 Jupites (Leo/ lion)
 Moon (Perses /Persian)
 Sun (Heliosdromus)
 Saturn (Pater)



Seven directions are invited in their own words:
Raven opens East (Air),
Nymphus opens West (water)
Miles opens North (Earth)
Leo opens South (Fire)
Perses opens below (underworld)
Heliosdromus opens above (upper world/ stary sky)
Pater opens within (boundary of Space).



Cauotes: "The soul, having started on its downward course from the
intersection of the zodiac and the Milk Way to the successive spheres
lying beneath, as it passes through these spheres, not only takes on
the afore-mentioned envelopment in each sphere by approaching a
luminous body, but also acquires each of the attributes which it will
exercise later. In the sphere of Saturn it obtains reason and
understanding, in Jupiter sphere the power to act, in Mars' sphere a
bold spirit, in the Sun's sphere sense-perception and imagination. In
Venus' sphere the impulse of passion, in Mercury's' sphere the
ability to speak and interpret and in the lunar sphere the function
of the molding and increasing bodies." (from Platonist Macrobius
commentary on Cicero's `Scipio's dream' fifth century AD. Manfred
Clauss "The Roman cult of Mithras" ).


 Invocation of seven planetry deities: Mercury, Venus, Mars,
Jupiter, Moon, Sun, Saturn. Each person `becomes' the planet they
calling on.

 [Each planet is invoked using the The Mystical Hymns of
Orpheus
Translated from the Greek And Demonstrated to Be the Invocations
which were used in the Eleusian Mysteries By Thomas Taylor 1824
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/%5d


 Mercury:
The Orphic Hymn to Mercury
(The Fumigation from Frankincense).

Hermes, draw near, and to my pray'r incline,
Angel of Jove, and Maia's son divine;
Prefect of contest, ruler of mankind,
With heart almighty, and a prudent mind.
Celestial messenger of various skill,
Whose pow'rful arts could watchful Argus kill.
With winged feet 'tis thine thro' air to course,
O friend of man, and prophet of discourse;
Great life-supporter, to rejoice is thine
In arts gymnastic, and in fraud divine.
With pow'r endu'd all language to explain,
Of care the loos'ner, and the source of gain.
Whose hand contains of blameless peace the rod,
Corucian, blessed, profitable God.
Of various speech, whose aid in works we find,

And in necessities to mortals kind.
Dire weapon of the tongue, which men revere,
Be present, Hermes, and thy suppliant hear;
Assist my works, conclude my life with peace,
Give graceful speech, and memory's increase.


 Venus:
The Orphic Hymn to Venus


HEAV'NLY, illustrious, laughter-loving queen,
Sea-born, night-loving, of an awful mien;
Crafty, from whom necessity first came,
Producing, nightly, all-connecting dame:
Tis thine the world with harmony to join,
For all things spring from thee, O pow'r divine.
The triple Fates are rul'd by thy decree,
And all productions yield alike to thee:
Whate'er the heav'ns, encircling all contain,
Earth fruit-producing, and the stormy main,
Thy sway confesses, and obeys thy nod,
Awful attendant of the brumal God:
Goddess of marriage, charming to the sight,
Mother of Loves, whom banquetings delight;
Source of persuasion, secret, fav'ring queen,
Illustrious born, apparent and unseen:
Spousal, lupercal, and to men inclin'd,
Prolific, most-desir'd, life-giving., kind:
Great sceptre-bearer of the Gods, 'tis thine,
Mortals in necessary bands to join;
And ev'ry tribe of savage monsters dire
In magic chains to bind, thro' mad desire.
Come, Cyprus-born, and to my pray'r incline,
Whether exalted in the heav'ns you shine,
Or pleas'd in Syria's temple to preside,
Or o'er th' Egyptian plains thy car to guide,
Fashion'd of gold; and near its sacred flood,
Fertile and fam'd to fix thy blest abode;
Or if rejoicing in the azure shores,
Near where the sea with foaming billows roars,
The circling choirs of mortals, thy delight,
Or beauteous nymphs, with eyes cerulean bright,
Pleas'd by the dusty banks renown'd of old,
To drive thy rapid, two-yok'd car of gold;
Or if in Cyprus with thy mother fair,
Where married females praise thee ev'ry year,
And beauteous virgins in the chorus join,
Adonis pure to sing and thee divine;
Come, all-attractive to my pray'r inclin'd,
For thee, I call, with holy, reverent mind.

 Mars:
The Orphic Hymn to Mars

The Fumigation from Frankincense


Magnanimous, unconquer'd, boistrous Mars,
In darts rejoicing, and in bloody wars
Fierce and untam'd, whose mighty pow'r can make
The strongest walls from their foundations shake:
Mortal destroying king, defil'd with gore,
Pleas'd with war's dreadful and tumultuous roar:
Thee, human blood, and swords, and spears delight,
And the dire ruin of mad savage fight.
Stay, furious contests, and avenging strife,
Whose works with woe, embitter human life; 10
To lovely Venus, and to Bacchus yield,
To Ceres give the weapons of the field;
Encourage peace, to gentle works inclin'd,
And give abundance, with benignant mind.

 Jupiter:
The Orphic Hymn to Jupiter

The Fumigation from Storax


O Jove, much-honour'd, Jove supremely great,
To thee our holy rites we consecrate,
Our pray'rs and expiations, king divine,
For all things to produce with ease thro' mind is thine.
Hence mother Earth and mountains swelling high
Proceed from thee, the deep and all within the sky.
Saturnian king, descending from above,
Magnanimous, commanding, sceptred Jove;
All-parent, principle and end of all,
Whose pow'r almighty shakes this earthly ball;
Ev'n Nature trembles at thy mighty nod,
Loud-sounding, arm'd with light'ning, thund'ring God.
Source of abundance, purifying king,
O various-form'd, from whom all natures spring;
Propitious hear my pray'r, give blameless health,
With peace divine, and necessary wealth.

 Moon:
The Orphic Hymn to the Moon

The Fumigation from Aromatics



Hear, Goddess queen, diffusing silver light,
Bull-horn'd, and wand'ring thro' the gloom of Night.
With stars surrounded, and with circuit wide
Night's torch extending, through the heav'ns you ride:
Female and male, with silv'ry rays you shine,
And now full-orb'd, now tending to decline.
Mother of ages, fruit-producing Moon,
Whose amber orb makes Night's reflected noon:
Lover of horses, splendid queen of night,
All-seeing pow'r, bedeck'd with starry light,
Lover of vigilance, the foe of strife,
In peace rejoicing, and a prudent life:
Fair lamp of Night, its ornament and friend,
Who giv'st to Nature's works their destin'd end.
Queen of the stars, all-wise Diana, hail!
Deck'd with a graceful robe and ample veil.
Come, blessed Goddess, prudent, starry, bright,
Come, moony-lamp, with chaste and splendid light,
Shine on these sacred rites with prosp'rous rays,
And pleas'd accept thy suppliants' mystic praise.


 Sun:
The Orphic Hymn to the Sun

The Fumigation from Frankincense and Manna




Hear, golden Titan, whose eternal eye
With matchless sight illumines all the sky.
Native, unwearied in diffusing light,
And to all eyes the object of delight:
Lord of the Seasons, beaming light from far,
Sonorous, dancing in thy four-yok'd car.
With thy right hand the source of morning light,
And with thy left the father of the night.
Agile and vig'rous, venerable Sun,
Fiery and bright around the heav'ns you run,
Foe to the wicked, but the good man's guide,
O'er all his steps propitious you preside.
With various-sounding golden lyre 'tis thine
To fill the world with harmony divine.
Father of ages, guide of prosp'rous deeds,
The world's commander, borne by lucid steeds.
Immortal Jove, flute-playing, bearing light,
Source of existence, pure and fiery bright;
Bearer of fruit, almighty lord of years,
Agile and warm, whom ev'ry power reveres.
Bright eye, that round the world incessant flies,
Doom'd with fair fulgid rays to set and rise;
Dispensing justice, lover of the stream,
The world's great master, and o'er all supreme.
Faithful defender, and the eye of right,
Of steeds the ruler, and of life the light:
With sounding whip four fiery steeds you guide,
When in the glittering car of day you ride,
Propitious on these mystic labours shine,
And bless thy suppliants with a life divine.


 Saturn:
The Orphic Hymn to Saturn

The Fumigation from Storax


ETHERIAL father, mighty Titan, hear,
Great fire of Gods and men, whom all revere:
Endu'd with various council, pure and strong,
To whom perfection and decrease belong.
Consum'd by thee all forms that hourly die,
By thee restor'd, their former place supply;
The world immense in everlasting chains,
Strong and ineffable thy pow'r contains
Father of vast eternity, divine,
O mighty Saturn, various speech is thine:
Blossom of earth and of the starry skies,
Husband of Rhea, and Prometheus wife.
Obstetric Nature, venerable root,
From which the various forms of being shoot;
No parts peculiar can thy pow'r enclose,
Diffus'd thro' all, from which the world arose,
O, best of beings, of a subtle mind,
Propitious hear to holy pray'rs inclin'd;
The sacred rites benevolent attend,
And grant a blameless life, a blessed end.



After all seven invocation taken place, everyone sits down for
chanting.

Chant: Ya doust Mithra. While performing transiting

[note: Transitting is based on one of the Sufi Zeker (dhikr)
technique (for details see Shaykh Hakim Moinuddin Chishti `The book
of Sufi healing', Inner Traditions, 1991, 144-146). To chant `Ya dost
Mithra', begin with your head facing left and start intoning `Yaaa'
and move your head in an arc gently down toward the center of your
body and toward your right shoulder intoning `doooussst' at the same
time. Next, the head in brought down towards the chest
intoning `Miiitt' then bring your head up intoning `raaaa'. This can
repeated a number of times and carried on for few minutes, inducing a
trance state. Move slowly, and be very careful with your neck
muscles. Do not do this if you have neck injuries, simply chant. ]


Chant is carried out by everyone while each planet reads their
section of Mithras liturgy, this invocation is read aloud above the
chant.

Corax(Mercury): First -origin of my origin, AEEIOYO, first beginning
of my beginning, spirit of spirit, the first of the spirit in me,
fire given by god to my mixture of the mixtures in me, the first of
the fire in me, water of water, the first of the water in me, earthy
substance, the first of the earthy substance in me, my complete
body I whose mother is _Pales_(mother earth), which was formed by a
noble arm and an incorruptible right hand in a world without light
and yet radiant, without soul and yet alive with soul, now if it be
your will, in another place, give me over to immortal birth and,
following that, to my underlying nature, so that after the present
need which is pressing me exceedingly, I may gaze upon the immortal
beginning with the immortal spirit, with the immortal water, with
the most steadfast air, that I may be born again in thought, and
the sacred spirit may breathe in me, so that I may wonder at the
sacred fire, that I may gaze upon the unfathomable, awesome water of
the dawn, and the vivifying ,and encircling aether may hear me, for
today I am about to behold, with immortal eyes -- I, born mortal from
mortal womb, but transformed by tremendous power and an incorruptible
right hand -- and with immortal spirit, the immortal Aion and master
of the fiery diadems—


Nymphus: I, sanctified through holy consecrations!-- while there
subsists within me, holy, for a short time, my human soul-might,
which I will again receive after the present bitter and relentless
necessity which is pressing down upon me--
I, _______ whose mother is __Pales (mother earth)_ according to the
immutable decree of god, Since it is impossible for me, born
mortal, to rise with the golden brightnesses of the immortal
brilliance, stand, O perishable nature of mortals, and at once me
safe and sound after the inexorable and pressing need. For I am the
son, I am."

Visualise: Draw in breath from the rays, drawing up three times as
much as you can, and you will see yourself being lifted up and
ascending to the height, so that you seem to be in mid-air. You will
hear nothing either of man or of any other living thing, nor in that
hour will you see anything of mortal affairs on earth, but rather you
will see all immortal things. For in that day and hour you will see
the divine order of the skies: the presiding gods rising into heaven,
and others setting. Now the course of the visible gods will appear
through the disk of god, my father; and in similar fashion the so-
called "pipe", the origin of the ministering wind. For you will see
it hanging from the sun's disk like a pipe. You will see the outflow
of this object toward the regions westward, boundless as an east
wind, if it be assigned to the regions of the East--and the other
(viz. the west wind), similarly, toward its own regions. And you will
see the gods staring intently at you and rushing at you. So at once
put your right finger on your mouth and say:
"Silence! Silence! Silence! Symbol of the living, incorruptible god!
Guard me, Silence,


Miles (Mars): Then you will see the gods looking graciously upon you
and no longer rushing at you, but rather going about in their own
order of affairs. So when you see that the world above is clear and
circling, and that none of the gods or angels is threatening you,
expect to hear a great crash of thunder, so as to shock you. Then say
again: "Silence! Silence! (the prayer) I am a star, wandering about
with you, and shining forth out of the deep". Immediately after you
have said these things the sun's disk will be expanded. And after you
have said the second prayer, where there is "Silence! Silence!" and
the accompanying words, make a hissing sound twice and a popping
sound twice, and immediately you will see many five- pronged stars
coming forth from the disk and filling all the air. Then say
again: "Silence! Silence!"
And when the disk is open, you will see the fireless circle, and the
fiery doors shut tight (585). At once close your eyes and recite the
following prayer.

Leo (Jupiter): .
Puts more incense on the burner and says:

Receive the incense- burners, Father, receive the Lions, Holy One,
through whom we offer incense, through whom we offer ourselves
consumed!

The third prayer:
"Give ear to me, hearken to me, _______ whose mother is __Pales
(mother earth)_____, O Lord, you who have bound together with your
breath the fiery bars of the fourfold root, O Fire-Walker, Light-
Maker, Fire-Breather, Fire-Feeler, IAO, Light-Breather, OAI, Fire-
Delighter, Beautiful Light, Aion, Light-Master, Fire-Body, Light-
Giver, Fire-Sower, Fire-Driver, Light-Forcer, AIO, Fire-Whirler,
Light-Mover, Thunder-Shaker (600), IE OE IOEIO, Glory-Light, Light-
Increaser, Fire-Light-Maintainer, Star-Tamer: open for me,
PROPROPHEGGE EMETHEIRE MORIOMOTYREPHILBA, because on account of the
pressing and bitter and inexorable necessity, I invoke the immortal
names, living and honored, which never pass into mortal nature and
are not declared in articulate speech by human tongue or mortal
speech (610) or mortal sound: EEO OEEO IOO OE EEO EEO OE EO IOO OEEE
OEE OOE IE EO OO OE IEO OE OOE IEO OE IEEO EE IO OE IOE OEO EOE OEO
OIE OIE EO OI III EOE OYE EOOEE EO EIA AEA EEA (615) EEEE EEE EEE IEO
EEO OEEEOE EEO EYO OE EIO EO OE OE EE OOO YIOE."
Say all these things with fire and spirit, until completing the first
utterance; then, similarly, begin the second, until you complete the
seven immortal gods of the world. When you have said these things,
you will hear thundering and shaking in the surrounding realm; and
you will likewise feel yourself being agitated. Then say
again: "Silence!" (the prayer) Then open your eyes and you will see
the doors (625) open and the world of the gods which is within the
doors, so that from the pleasure and joy of the sight your spirit
runs ahead and ascends. So stand still and at once draw breath from
the divine into yourself, while you look intently. Then when (630)
your soul is restored, say: "Come, Lord, ARCHANDARA PHOTAZA PYRIPHOTA
ZABYTHIX ETIMENMERO PHORATHEN ERIE PROTHRI PHORATHI."

Perses (moon):
When you have said this, the rays will turn toward you; look at the
center of them. For when (635) you have done this, you will see a
youthful god, beautiful in appearance, with fiery hair, and in a
white tunic and a scarlet cloak, and wearing a fiery crown. At once
greet him with the fire-greeting:
"Hail, O Lord, Great Power, Great Might, King, Greatest of gods,
Helios, the Lord of heaven and earth, God of gods: mighty is your
breath; mighty is your strength, O Lord. If it be your will, announce
me to the supreme god, the one who has begotten and made you: that a
man --
I, _______ whose mother is __Pales (earth mother)_ who was born from
the mortal womb of _______ and from the fluid of semen, and who,
since he has been born again from you today, has become immortal out
of so many myriads in this hour according to the wish of god the
exceedingly good-- resolves to worship you, and prays with all his
human power (that you may take along with you the horoscope of the
day and hour today, which has the name THRAPSIARI MORIROK, that he
may appear and give revelation during the good hours, EORO RORE ORRI
ORlOR ROR ROI OR REORORI EOR EOR EOR EORE!)."
After you have said these things, he will come to the celestial pole,
and you will see him walking as if on a road. Look intently and make
a long bellowing sound, like a horn, releasing all your breath and
straining your sides; and kiss the amulets and say, first toward the
right: "Protect me, PROSYMERI!" After saying this, you will see the
doors thrown open, and seven virgins coming from deep within, dressed
in linen garments, and with the faces of asps. They are called the
Fates of heaven, and wield golden wands. When you see them, greet
them in this manner:
"Hail, O seven Fates of heaven, O noble and good virgins, O sacred
ones and companions of MINIMIRROPHOR, O most holy guardians of the
four pillars!
Hail to you, the first, CHREPSENTHAES!
Hail to you, the second, MENESCHEES!
Hail to you, the third, MECHRAN!
Hail to you, the fourth, ARARMACHES!
Hail to you, the fifth, ECHOMMIE!
Hail to you, the sixth, TICHNONDAES!
Hail to you, the seventh, EROY ROMBRIES!

Helios (sun): There also come forth another seven gods, who have the
faces of black bulls, in linen loin-cloths, and in possession of
seven golden diadems. They are the so-called Pole-Lords of heaven,
whom you must greet in the same manner, each of them with his own
name: "Hail, O guardians of the pivot, O sacred and brave youths, who
turn at one command the revolving axis of the vault of heaven, who
send out thunder and lightning and jolts of earthquakes and
thunderbolts against the nations of impious people, but to me, who am
pious and god-fearing, you send health and soundness of body, and
acuteness of hearing and seeing, and calmness in the present good
hours of this day, O my Lords and powerfully ruling Gods!
Hail to you, the first, AIERONTHI!
Hail to you, the second, MERCHEIMEROS!
Hail to you, the third, ACHRICHIOYR!
(690) Hail to you, the fourth, MESARGILTO!
Hail to you, the fifth, CHICHROALITHO!
Hail to you, the sixth, ERMICHTHATHOPS!
Hail to you, the seventh, EORASICHE!"

Pater: Now when they take their place, here and there, in order, look
in the air and you will see lightning-bolts going down, and lights
flashing , and the earth shaking, and a god descending, a god
immensely great, having a bright appearance youthful, golden-haired,
with a white tunic and a golden crown and trousers, and holding in
his right hand a golden shoulder of a young bull: this is the Bear
which moves and turns heaven around, moving upward and downward in
accordance with the hour. Then you will see lightning-bolts leaping
from his eyes and stars from his body. And at once produce a long
bellowing sound, straining your belly, that you may excite the five
senses: bellow long until the conclusion, and again kiss the amulets,
and say: "MOKRIMO PHERIMOPHERERI, life of me, _______" stay!
Dwell in my soul! Do not abandon me, for one entreats you, ENTHO
PHENEN THROPIOTH."
And gaze upon the god while bellowing long; and greet him in this
manner:
"Hail, O Lord, O Master of the water!
Hail, O Founder of the earth!
Hail, O Ruler of the wind!
O Bright Lightener!
Give revelation 0 Lord, concerning the matter of _mysteries of Autumn
Equinox _____.
O Lord, while being born again, I am passing away; while growing and
having grown, I am dying; while being born from a life-generating
birth, I am passing on, released to death-- as you have founded, as
you have decreed, and have established the mystery.
I am PHEROYRA MIOYRI."
After you have said these things, he will immediately respond with a
revelation. Now you will grow weak in soul and will not be in
yourself, when he answers you. He speaks the oracle to you in verse,
and after speaking he will depart. But you remain silent, since you
will be able to comprehend all these matters by yourself; for at a
later time you will remember infallibly the things spoken by the
great god, even if the oracle contained myriads of verses.

-Oracle of Mithras by ? someone who feels moved.

-Giving Thanks to Mithras. Then planetry deities in reverse order,
descend back to earth: Saturn, Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Mars, Venus,
Mercury, and thanks to 7 directions.

-Ritual meal, feast of the Bull!
Began by saying: This young Bull which he carried on his shoulders
according to his ways. And after which I had received it, I have
carried on my shoulders the greatest things of the gods.

-Share meal.

-Clear space.

*Nabarz Autumn Equinox, Sept 2004.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28480 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-05
Subject: Re: Good Morning!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
> G. Equitius Cato F. Lucillae Merulae S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Lucilla Merula.
>
> I'm glad you find *something* about me quite interesting. Better
> than being thought dull. :-)

Or, as I believe mae West sa id, it's better to be looked over than
overlooked, right? :-)


Vale,


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28481 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: wait a second...
salve all. i would like to point out, albeit
selfishly, when i said crap as pertains to certain
redundant issues, i was scolded. lol. thats poo!

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28482 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
pssst...you said crap.
--- p-mclaughlin@... <p-mclaughlin@...> wrote:
> At 03:06 AM 9/4/2004, you wrote:
> >Subject: Password
> >
> >The request to reset the password came from
> >3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> >at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> >using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> >Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova
Roma password?
> >
> >Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
> I experienced the same attempt, same source. I
forwarded it to the webmaster.
>
> So, (rising from my profound ennui with the current
squabbling) is this a
> Boni or Moderati plot? Or has some other nefarious
group arrived on the scene?
>
> O tempora, O mores!
>
> With that, I'm off to perform far more Roman
virtues, helping someone build
> a rock wall (cement--a Roman virtue?) and tending a
garden.
>
> Let me know if we find the password culprit; I'd
like him(her?) hurled from
> the Tarpeian Rock. I have little tolerance for that
kind of crap (is that
> sentiment political? Am I a bonus, moderatus or
simply irritated... and
> thus what... frustratus?).
>
> Valete,
> M Umbrius Ursus
>
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28483 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
heh heh heheh heheheh

he said crap

heh heheheh heh

raymond fuentes wrote:

> pssst...you said crap.
> --- p-mclaughlin@... <p-mclaughlin@...> wrote:
> > At 03:06 AM 9/4/2004, you wrote:
> > >Subject: Password
> > >
> > >The request to reset the password came from
> > >3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > >at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > >using Mozilla/4.0.
> > >
> > >Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova
> Roma password?
> > >
> > >Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> > I experienced the same attempt, same source. I
> forwarded it to the webmaster.
> >
> > So, (rising from my profound ennui with the current
> squabbling) is this a
> > Boni or Moderati plot? Or has some other nefarious
> group arrived on the scene?
> >
> > O tempora, O mores!
> >
> > With that, I'm off to perform far more Roman
> virtues, helping someone build
> > a rock wall (cement--a Roman virtue?) and tending a
> garden.
> >
> > Let me know if we find the password culprit; I'd
> like him(her?) hurled from
> > the Tarpeian Rock. I have little tolerance for that
> kind of crap (is that
> > sentiment political? Am I a bonus, moderatus or
> simply irritated... and
> > thus what... frustratus?).
> >
> > Valete,
> > M Umbrius Ursus
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12934llj9/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1094530266/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28484 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Ya know...
Valetudo...

Only Boni I have in my house is Ada Boni: "Talisman Italian Cookbook."

Pax - Venii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28485 From: L. Cornelius Sulla Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
Someone's been watching Beavis and Butthead...LOL Thank G-d for MTV2 on the weekends!

Sulla
(Back from having PC probs)
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Password


heh heh heheh heheheh

he said crap

heh heheheh heh

raymond fuentes wrote:

> pssst...you said crap.
> --- p-mclaughlin@... <p-mclaughlin@...> wrote:
> > At 03:06 AM 9/4/2004, you wrote:
> > >Subject: Password
> > >
> > >The request to reset the password came from
> > >3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > >at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > >using Mozilla/4.0.
> > >
> > >Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova
> Roma password?
> > >
> > >Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> > I experienced the same attempt, same source. I
> forwarded it to the webmaster.
> >
> > So, (rising from my profound ennui with the current
> squabbling) is this a
> > Boni or Moderati plot? Or has some other nefarious
> group arrived on the scene?
> >
> > O tempora, O mores!
> >
> > With that, I'm off to perform far more Roman
> virtues, helping someone build
> > a rock wall (cement--a Roman virtue?) and tending a
> garden.
> >
> > Let me know if we find the password culprit; I'd
> like him(her?) hurled from
> > the Tarpeian Rock. I have little tolerance for that
> kind of crap (is that
> > sentiment political? Am I a bonus, moderatus or
> simply irritated... and
> > thus what... frustratus?).
> >
> > Valete,
> > M Umbrius Ursus
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12934llj9/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=1705313712:HM/EXP=1094530266/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352&partid=5285298>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28486 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Password
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@g...> wrote:
> heh heh heheh heheheh
>
> he said crap
>
> heh heheheh heh

no way, butthead. cool. heheh heheh heheh


> raymond fuentes wrote:
>
> > pssst...you said crap.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28487 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Salvete to the Censors or to whom it may concern! I'm
having trouble getting any word out of the Pontifex
Maximus Marcus Cassius Julianus, and I haven't heard
anything more from any of the Censors concerning my
present status within Nova Roma! Were my taxes ever
paid?! Am I still a "socius?!" What gives here?! I
haven't had ANY more communication whatsoever from
anyone concerned and this doesn't speak well as far as
I am concerned!!! I am sorry, but what am I to think?!
Anyway, and with all due respect, I hope to please
hear from someone in this regard! Valete! Frater GAIVS
IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Flamen Floralis, Senior Paterfamilias
Gentis Iuliae.



_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28488 From: Maxima Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: salt
kriss112233 <kriss112233@...> wrote: hej!

what for is the salt on an altar used for?

thanks for answers
Kriss!

Salve, Kriss

Salt is a natural preservative and has purifying qualities. It is used to do the purifying part of any ritual, regardless to whom the ritual is performed to.
Some sprinkle salt around the area where they perform their ritual to cleanse it of bad energy. Some like to mix the salt with water and sprinkle their altar, and/or themselves, and/or the area where the ritual is being performed. Some place a pinch of salt on the tongue at the start of a ritual, to purify the mouth and symbolically cleanse one's speech, that the words used during any ritual will not offend the Deities one is offering the ritual to.
Some say only sea salt should be used. Others say rock salt is fine. Me, I use good old Morton salt, with the iodine included.
And that's the lowdown on why there is salt on an altar and what is is used for.

Vale

Maxima Valeria Messallina


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28489 From: Maxima Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: New Group to Support the Imperial Eagle, Aquila Heliaca
Salve, Sabina

Well done! You can count on me to join and help in any way I can.

Vale

Maxima

sabina_equitia_doris <doris-butler@...> wrote:
Salvete Omnes!

I have put together a new yahoo group devoted to helping save the
last one or two thousand living Roman Imperial Eagles, the Aquila
Heliaca.

Some may come to this group out of love for nature and conservation,
others by interest in Roman military history, while for some (many
perhaps!) the Imperial Eagle is a bird of good augery. All are
welcome whether in Nova Roma or not, provided that we are devoted to
seeing this noble bird once again thrive.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquilaheliaca/?yguid=164345709

"Dedicated to the preservation of the Roman Imperial Eagle, Aquila
Heliaca, a living symbol of romanitas and the glory of the ancient
Roman republic and its armies. Now this magnificent bird is in
danger of extinction, and we share our knowledge and search for ways
to keep our Imperial Eagles flying wild and free across the lands
that were once Rome."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquilaheliaca/?yguid=164345709

This is above and beyond factionalism or politics. We can *all*
unite to help "our" noble eagles not merely survive, but thrive.

--Sabina Equitia Doris
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28490 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Ludi Romani photo quiz : picture 1 / 10
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

it's time to begin the contest! In the following link you'll find the first picture.
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz

Just write to m_iulius@... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject. Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)

For this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.

remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around midday, the second picture!!!

Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!




M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
-------------------------
Aedilis Curulis
Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
---------------------------------------------
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
---------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28491 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
Does Nova Roman law offer any advice as to the admissability of
comments from "outside" Nova Roma -- that is, on unrelated or
unofficial mailing lists -- in terms of Nova Roman indictment?


On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:55:17 -0000, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> Cato.
>
> The unnamed Bonus is myself. The list was called Volcanus. It was
> actually founded by a cives called Carantus, if my memory serves
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28492 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
As a newcomer, I've found this discussion fascinating, if a bit
overheated at times.

I was drawn to Nova Roma out of respect for the Roman Republic's
political genius, as well as my avocational interest in all things
Roman. However, I am not currently a practitioner of the Religio. I
respect it, and I respect those that practice it, but it is not in my
scheme of beliefs at this time in my life. (For me, anyway, these
things are evolutionary -- my spiritual ideas have changed throughout
my life, and will likely continue to do so.)

But I knew coming into Nova Roma that I was freely choosing to enter a
community based not on the First Amendment principles of my United
States, but on Roman principles. Nova Roma is, to my eye, pretty
up-front about the role of the Religio in the society. While
non-practioners are welcome, all coming in know the score when they
seek citizenship.



----- Original Message -----
From: John Dobbins <drusus@...>
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:42:05 -0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moderates?
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com

Salvete,

The Moderates?

I Have talked to people who were present at the start of Nova Roma.
They have told me that there was some debate about allowing Xtians in,
and that it was decided that Xtians would be allowed to join with a
Blasphemy Clause to protect the Religio, a moderate postion.

.......
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28493 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Wikipedia entries
I do hope no Carthaginian micronations arise. Watch out for the
virtual elephants.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Ambrosius Artorus <artorus@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 05:19:44 -0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Wikipedia entries
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com

Salve Troiane,

My first impulse is to question whether a Roman micronation would
really want to recognize another Roman micronation ;)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28494 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Concerned about appts.
I have long been a citizen and proponent of Nova Roma, and I've
also been a supporter of a form of taxation, though I haven't felt
motivated myself to make gigantic financial contributions to Nova Roma
because of my being essentially, though unintentionally, barred from
governmental positions that I've been seeking for a long time.

I have voiced my concerns about not having been made the legate of
Vermont within the Nova Brittania province in the past, simply because
of a former resident's seniority within the province. I believe it
would be more practicial in Northern New England for me to be
officially appointed a regional leader, recognized by Nova Roman
government, as most Nova Roman residents of Vermont reside very close
to me. This is also insequitur of my aforementioned support of taxes...

I think a more effective strategy for this consulate's year,
would be to endorse a legate-paid tax system. Though this might sound
at first somewhat fuedal, the way our government is structured, I
believe that legates and governors of provinces should be responsible
for paying taxes for their positions of authority, and being funded
partly by the citizens underneath them. E.G: I will collect taxes from
the residents of VT if made legate, and forward this money to the Nova
Roman federal government via paypal, other legates could theoretically
do the same. I think this system would work better because there is a
buffer between the federal and local, which in my experience, makes
people see the sense in separating themselves from their hard earned
money so that it can manifest itself in our temples and cultural
projects to come.

-T. Ambrosius Quintilianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28495 From: Lucius Arminius Faustus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Articles on Roman Government - XX - Edictum
Articles on Roman Government - XX - Edictum

This text is provided here with cultural and educational purposes
only. The text is copyright of its owner. I am not the author of the
proceeding document, it has been presented for Educational purposes
and all known Authors have been given due and proper credit.


EDICTUM


EDICTUM The jus edicendi, or power of issuing edicts--public and
authoritative notices on matters which fell within their
jurisdiction, or formed part of their official business--belonged to
all the higher magistrates at Rome. The censors published edicts
relative to a coming census (Liv. xxxix. 44; cf. Plin. H. N. xiv. §
95, xxxvi. § 4): the consuls thus summoned the senate and the
comitia. Cicero (in Verr. ii. 41) mentions an edict of the tribunes
connected with their right of intercession; and the edicts of the
aediles, which are alluded to by Plautus (Capt. iv. 2, v. 43) and
Cicero (de Off. iii. 17), had an important influence on the law of
sale. Gaius tells us (i. 6) that the aedilician [p. 705] jurisdiction
was exercised in provinces of the Roman people by quaestors, but that
there were no such quaestors in the provinces of the emperor. Such
magisterial edicts, so long as they remained in force, were reckoned
an integral part of the law of Rome, among the sources of which they
are enumerated (e. g. Cic. Top. 5; Gaius, i. 2): they are said (Dig.
44, 7, 2) to constitute the jus honorarium as distinct from the jus
civile, because their authors were invested with the honores or
higher magistracies. But the edicts of which we hear most are those
of the. praetors ( amplissimum jus est in edictis duorum praetorum,
Gaius, i. 6): hence jus praetorium and jus honorarium are sometimes
used as equivalent and interchangeable expressions.

The term edictum signifies generally any public notice made by a
competent authority (Cic. in Pison. 8; Liv. ii. 30, xxviii. 25, xxxi.
6; Tac. Ann. i. 7; Gell. xiii. 15; Dig. 1, 16, 4, 3; 49, 16, 4, 13),
and in particular, under the republic, rules promulgated by a
magistrate by writing them in albo and placing them, like the leges
(Dion. Hal. iii. 36), in a conspicuous place, unde de plano recte
legi potest: hence the edicts of the magistrates are described by
Justinian (Inst. i. 2, 3) after Ulpian (Dig. 1, 1, 5, pr.) as part of
the jus scriptures of Rome. It became usual for the praetor, at the
commencement of his year of office, to proclaim by an edict the
principles which, apart from the established rules of the jus civile,
he intended to observe in the administration of justice; and
eventually this usage developed into a constitutional obligation.
Such edict was called edictum perpetuum, because the practice was
constant and unbroken, and was contrasted with edicta repentina (Cic.
in Verr. iii. 1. 4), isolated orders which the praetor made during,
and not at the commencement of, his year of office, and generally,
though not always, relating to some specific case. Not unfrequently,
however, a praetor acted contrary to his edictum perpetuum (e. g.
Verres, Cic. in Verr. i. 4. 6), or varied the rules therein stated by
subsequent edicta repentina: but this was made illegal by a Lex
Cornelia, B.C. 67 (Asconius ad Cic. pro Cornelio; Dio Cass. xxxvi.
23).

Technically speaking, no edictum perpetuum had validity for a longer
period than its author's tenure of the praetorship, for it was upheld
only by his imperium: hence Cicero (in Verr. ii. 1, 42) calls the
edict annua lex. But it became the rule, at least as early as the
time of Cicero (de Invent. ii. 22), for each successive praetor to
adopt, in substance, the edict of his predecessor, with such
additions, abrogations, and changes as he deemed expedient (Cic. in
Verr. ii. 1, 44), such part as he adopted being called edictum
tralaticium. In this way the edict gradually grew into a considerable
and permanent body of law, the excellence of which was guaranteed by
the ease with which obnoxious innovations made by one praetor could
be repealed by his next successor. Edicts, formulae, and actions
which were of special importance, though remaining part of the
permanent edict, were commonly named after their original authors: e.
g. Edictum Carbonianum; formula Rutiliana, Aquiliana; judicium
Cascellianum; interdictum Salvianum; actio Publiciana, Pauliana,
Serviana, &c.

Originally there had been but one praetor; but in 247 B.C. a second
one, called praetor peregrinus, to distinguish him from the praetor
urbanus, was established for the administration of justice at Rome
between aliens or between aliens and Roman citizens. When the state
extended her territories beyond the limits of Italy, new praetors
were created to act as governors of the new provinces for short terms
of years: in the time of Julius Caesar they numbered altogether
sixteen. All of these praetors issued annual edicts, and those of the
praetors urbanus and peregrinus at any rate were handed on from year
to year, and thus were in point of fact permanent and constantly
growing bodies of law. The edict of the praetor peregrinus is
commonly represented as consisting of rules which he found were
practically acknowledged as binding by all the Italian peoples with
whom Rome had any dealings, whence the Romans are supposed to have
first got the conception of a jus gentium: but other writers hold
that even at this time the Roman law consisted of two portions--one
purely indigenous and peculiar to the race, the other common to the
other Italian tribes, and that the latter part was applied by the
praetor peregrinus in adjudicating on suits in which at least one
party was an alien. The edicts issued by the praetors who governed
provinces, and who under the empire got the name of praesides, were
termed edicta provincialia: some parts of them appear to have been
handed on from governor to governor (Cic. ad Fam. iii. 8; ad Att. v.
21), others to have been taken from the edictum urbanum (Cic. in
Verr. ii. 1, 46; 3, 65): in cases not otherwise provided for Cicero
proclaimed, when a provincial governor, that he would follow the
perpetual edict of Rome (ad Att. vi. 1).

It is, however, the urban edict which is of the greatest importance
and interest, because it was binding on Roman citizens inter se, and
therefore alone formed part of the Roman law in the strictest sense
of the term. Many of the most considerable rules and legal doctrines
which it established had been developed before the time of Cicero (in
Verr. i. 44): for instance, the doctrine of bonorum possessio or
praetorian inheritance; the system of bankruptcy execution, known as
venditio or emptio bonorum: and the theory of possession as distinct
from ownership (dominium) protected by special praetorian remedies of
its own [INTERDICTUM]. Indeed, in Cicero's time (de Legg. i. 5; ii.
23) the edict was regularly read in the course of legal study, and
the jurists who were his contemporaries had begun to comment on it in
lieu of the Twelve Tables and other early statutes of the republican
period. Under the early empire it continued to receive, year by year,
fresh development from the hands of successive praetors, though owing
to the practical curtailment of their authority by the imperial power
their activity in this direction seems to have diminished; the
necessary additions and alterations in the law being made rather by
direct legislation, and changes being effected in the edict
principally in order to accommodate the system of procedure to the
new rights and duties which that legislation created. It may easily
be believed that, when neither comitia [p. 706] nor senate ventured
to enact a statute unless it was initiated by the emperor personally
or with his assent, a magistrate would have hesitated to repeal,
alter, or extend the law with the boldness and independence which had
been usual under the free republic.

The year 131 A.D. was a notable one in the history of the jus
praetorium. The Emperor Hadrian then issued, through Salvius
Julianus, praetor designate (Eutrop. viii. 17), a revised edition of
the edictum urbanum, combining with it the edict of the aedile
(Theoph. i. 2, 7: Const. omnem reipub. § 4), and probably also that
of the praetor peregrinus and parts of the edicta provincialia. This,
which was arranged according to subjects in Titles, was called the
edictum perpetuum par excellence, and was published with the force of
law for the whole empire, so that the jus honorarium from this time
onward had statutory validity, instead of depending on an annual re-
enactment. Hence-forward, too, though the magistrates in
constitutional theory retained their jus edicendi, the old practice,
according to which each praetor issued an edictum perpetuum at the
commencement of his year of office, was abandoned. The jurists after
Hadrian regard the edict of their own time as something permanent and
unalterable except by the action of the emperor: and Hadrian himself
evidently directed that any defect which might subsequently be
discovered in the law should be supplied by imperial legislation
(Justinian in Const. tanta de confirm. Digest. § 18). This
codification of the edicts seems to have been in some way connected
with another reform of Hadrian's, by which he divided the whole of
Italy into Rome, with its immediately surrounding territory, and four
other districts: Rome and its suburbs remained under the authority of
the old magistrates, and among them of the praetor, while the other
districts were placed under the administration of a new class of
officials, called at first consulares, and after M. Aurelius (A.D. 61-
180) juridici.

The scope of the edict is described by the jurist Papinian as
adjuvandi vel supplendi vel corrigendi juris civilis gratia propter
utilitatem publicam (Dig. 1, 1, 7); its purpose was ancillary to that
of the civil law, the voids in which it supplied, and in some cases
mitigated its hardships even by the enforcement of a contrary rule.
An example of its auxiliary operation may be seen in the cases in
which it sanctioned a lex imperfecta (e. g. by the exceptio legis
Cinciae), and in the great use made by civil-law heirs of the
interdict Quorum bonorum, a remedy designed in origin for praetorian
successors only. Of its supplementary character no better
illustration can be cited than many of the classes of bonorum
possessio, especially that given to cognates, who under the civil law
had no right of intestate inheritance whatever: and in in integrum
restitutio it is found correcting and even subverting the operation
of the jus civile.

The precise mode in which the praetor worked through the edict is
deserving of notice. Technically speaking, he had no legislative
authority: but from the enactment of the Lex Aebutia (of unknown
date; see LEX) he had the complete control of the courts and of the
system of procedure, and this enabled him to practically alter and
extend the substantive law almost as absolutely as any legislator. If
so and so happens, he proclaimed, judicium dabo : and by giving an
action he practically gave a substantive legal right which before had
not existed. In other cases he assisted a defendant by new forms of
defence (exceptiones), awarded possession of property under an
equitable title, and protected it with interdicts, and cancelled
legal rights and duties by restoring parties in statum quo; and in
fact, by allowing or disallowing actions or other forms of legal
process, he was enabled to introduce a large number of new and
important legal principles. The characteristic features of the law
which he thus created were its liberality and common sense. It has
none of the peculiarities of the jus civile--formality,
exclusiveness, rigidity; the vast majority of its rules are what we
should call rules of equity, fitted by their very equitableness and
simplicity to endure through all time. It is in fact based on the jus
gentium, or rather on the natural sense of right, the naturalis
aequitas, in which the Romans recognised that law's internal and
generative principle, and which gave the edict such an honourable
prominence among the sources of their positive law.

The juristic commentaries on the edict have been already referred to.
The first of them was by Aulus Ofilius, a contemporary of Cicero.
Labeo, the founder of the Proculian school of jurists, composed four
books on the edictum urbanum; and another work of his, in thirty
books, on the edict of the praetor peregrinus, is cited by Ulpian in
dig. 4, 3, 9. Gaius wrote commentaries on the edicts of both praetors
and of the aedile, and there were numerous treatises on the same
subject by other eminent lawyers (e. g. Ulpian and Paulus), besides
other juristic writings not expressly on the edict, but which
followed its arrangement: e. g. the epitome of Hermogenianus (Dig. 1,
5, 2). The result of this continuous annotation was that the
commentaries obtained more authority than the edict itself, and
became the basis of instruction for law students, especially those of
Ulpian and Paulus. Some few fragments of the older edicts are found
in the Roman writers, but it is chiefly from the works of the great
jurists, as preserved in the Digest, that we knew anything of the
edictum perpetuum of Salvius Julianus, and in these the actual words
of the praetor are frequently preserved. The arrangement of this
great edict was to a considerable extent the basis of that of
Justinian's Digest, and it was followed still more closely in the
Code.

The edicta or edictales constitutiones of the emperors are mentioned
under CONSTITUTIO.

(The most complete collections of the fragments of the edicts are
those of Wieling, Fragmenta Edicti Ferpetui, Franek. 1733, and of
Rudorff: the latest treatise on the subject is by Lenel, Das Edictum
perpetuum, Leipzig, 1883. Cf. also Walter, Gosch. des röm. Rechts, §
§ 236, 312, 429, 440; Savigny, Gesch. des röm. Rechts. im Mittelater,
ch. i. System, i. p. 109 ff.; Puchta, Institutionen, 8th ed., vol. i.
pp. 184-201, 314-322; Böcking, Institutionen, § 16.) [J. B. M.]


This text is based on the following book(s):
A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. William Smith, LLD.
William Wayte. G. E. Marindin. Albemarle Street, London. John Murray.
1890.





Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28496 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
Salve Petrei,

I agree with you on this point. Nova Roma was founded by a few
gentlemen with a main goal of reviving the Roman Religion and
Virtues. At the same time they did recognize that there are so many
of us non- practitioners out there with a passion and interest for
Rome as well. They have been very inclusive and courteous about
accepting the non-practioners when this could have been just a very
exclusive organization for the religio leaving many of us out.

I always felt that locking horns, quarreling or causing strife with
respect to the religio is rather like spitting in the face of a host
who kindly invited me to dinner.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Cassius Petreius
<petreius@g...> wrote:
> As a newcomer, I've found this discussion fascinating, if a bit
> overheated at times.
>
> I was drawn to Nova Roma out of respect for the Roman Republic's
> political genius, as well as my avocational interest in all things
> Roman. However, I am not currently a practitioner of the
Religio. I
> respect it, and I respect those that practice it, but it is not in
my
> scheme of beliefs at this time in my life. (For me, anyway, these
> things are evolutionary -- my spiritual ideas have changed
throughout
> my life, and will likely continue to do so.)
>
> But I knew coming into Nova Roma that I was freely choosing to
enter a
> community based not on the First Amendment principles of my United
> States, but on Roman principles. Nova Roma is, to my eye, pretty
> up-front about the role of the Religio in the society. While
> non-practioners are welcome, all coming in know the score when they
> seek citizenship.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Dobbins <drusus@b...>
> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:42:05 -0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moderates?
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> Salvete,
>
> The Moderates?
>
> I Have talked to people who were present at the start of Nova Roma.
> They have told me that there was some debate about allowing Xtians
in,
> and that it was decided that Xtians would be allowed to join with a
> Blasphemy Clause to protect the Religio, a moderate postion.
>
> .......
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28497 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Moderates?
G. Equitius Cato Q. Lanio Paulino S.P.D

Salve, Lanius Paulinus.

I also agree -- but only to a point. We are not "guests", we are
citizens. We are not "peregrines", we live here. The founders were
extraordinarily intent upon making sure that there would be, for all
intents and purposes, freedom of private religion; for that, we
should be thankful :-) I think it is healthy to have discussions
regarding issues that affect all citizens, but we're learning how to
do so in a more polite, civil atmosphere.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salve Petrei,
>
> I agree with you on this point. Nova Roma was founded by a few
> gentlemen with a main goal of reviving the Roman Religion and
> Virtues. At the same time they did recognize that there are so many
> of us non- practitioners out there with a passion and interest for
> Rome as well. They have been very inclusive and courteous about
> accepting the non-practioners when this could have been just a very
> exclusive organization for the religio leaving many of us out.
>
> I always felt that locking horns, quarreling or causing strife with
> respect to the religio is rather like spitting in the face of a
host
> who kindly invited me to dinner.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Cassius Petreius
> <petreius@g...> wrote:
> > As a newcomer, I've found this discussion fascinating, if a bit
> > overheated at times.
> >
> > I was drawn to Nova Roma out of respect for the Roman Republic's
> > political genius, as well as my avocational interest in all things
> > Roman. However, I am not currently a practitioner of the
> Religio. I
> > respect it, and I respect those that practice it, but it is not
in
> my
> > scheme of beliefs at this time in my life. (For me, anyway, these
> > things are evolutionary -- my spiritual ideas have changed
> throughout
> > my life, and will likely continue to do so.)
> >
> > But I knew coming into Nova Roma that I was freely choosing to
> enter a
> > community based not on the First Amendment principles of my United
> > States, but on Roman principles. Nova Roma is, to my eye, pretty
> > up-front about the role of the Religio in the society. While
> > non-practioners are welcome, all coming in know the score when
they
> > seek citizenship.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Dobbins <drusus@b...>
> > Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:42:05 -0000
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moderates?
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > The Moderates?
> >
> > I Have talked to people who were present at the start of Nova
Roma.
> > They have told me that there was some debate about allowing
Xtians
> in,
> > and that it was decided that Xtians would be allowed to join with
a
> > Blasphemy Clause to protect the Religio, a moderate postion.
> >
> > .......
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28498 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
A. Apollonius Cordus C. Iulio Iuliano omnibusque sal.

> I'm
> having trouble getting any word out of the Pontifex
> Maximus Marcus Cassius Julianus, and I haven't heard
> anything more from any of the Censors concerning my
> present status within Nova Roma! Were my taxes ever
> paid?! Am I still a "socius?!" What gives here?! I
> haven't had ANY more communication whatsoever from
> anyone concerned and this doesn't speak well as far
> as
> I am concerned!!! I am sorry, but what am I to
> think?!
> Anyway, and with all due respect, I hope to please
> hear from someone in this regard! Valete! Frater
> GAIVS
> IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Flamen Floralis, Senior
> Paterfamilias
> Gentis Iuliae.

A quick look in the album gentium reveals only one
member of gens Iulia with a name similar to yours. He
is listed as Gaius Iulius Iulianus Octavianus, and is
capite census, which means he is a full citizen (not a
socius) but has not paid his taxes this year. He is
not listed as a paterfamilias or as a flamen. Is this
you?

Alternatively, there is a Gaius Iulius Iulianus listed
as a socius and flamen Florealis, though he is not a
paterfamilias either. Is this you?

According to the law, all you have to do to stop being
a socius (if you are one) is to write to the censores
and ask. They must restore you to the status of full
citizen unless there are compelling reasons not to. To
write to them, go to the following link:

http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php?to=censores

It may be that some delay was caused by our lack of a
webmaster. We have one now, but he has only recently
taken office and may have a back-log of tasks.
However, I am sure that if you write to the censores
they will probably ask the webmaster to change your
status on the website.

You can check your status at any time by going to the
following page:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/cives

This gives you a list of all citizens and socii. Find
your name on the list, and click it. This will show
you your current status.

I hope this helps.





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28499 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Cato, Volcanus and Blackmail (was Re: We Mature, Do We Not?)
A. Apollonius Cordus M. Cassio Patreio omnibusque sal.

> Does Nova Roman law offer any advice as to the
> admissability of
> comments from "outside" Nova Roma -- that is, on
> unrelated or
> unofficial mailing lists -- in terms of Nova Roman
> indictment?

This has recently been discussed on the Laws list. The
prevailing view seems to be that comments made on
independent mailing lists, or anywhere else, may be
used as evidence in a Novaroman trial, but that people
can't be sued in a Novaroman court for a comment made
on an outside list, except for blasphemy, which has no
such restriction.

But the law is not explicit on this question, and
there are other interpretations. It hasn't yet been
tested. My advice to anyone would be to err on the
safe side and not say anything on any list which you
wouldn't want other people to find out about.

I hope that's of some help. E-mail me privately if you
want a more detailed explanation:

a_apollonius_cordus AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28500 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
A. Apollonius Cordus T. Ambrosio Quintiliano
omnibusque sal.

> I think a more effective strategy for this
> consulate's year,
> would be to endorse a legate-paid tax system....

Let me see if I've understood your suggestion:

Taxes would no longer be paid by individual citizens
directly to the central treasury. In stead, there
would be a compulsory tax on provincial legates, which
the legates would have to pay to the central treasury.
The legates could then choose whether to pay all the
money themselves or raise the money by taxing the
citizens in their provinces. Is that correct?

It's an interesting idea, and has the merit of being
somewhat similar to the way the Romans raised taxes
(though it wasn't legates but tax-farmers who did the
tax-collecting). There are a few things which would
need to be decided, though.

For one thing, would each legate be taxed the same
amount? If so, then that would be a good incentive for
legates to recruit more citizens in their regions, so
that the burden of taxation could be spread more
thinly. But on the other hand, it would also penalize
legates who had small regions. It would also mean that
a provincial governor could reduce the amount of money
his province has to pay by appointing a smaller number
of legates - in fact, he could reduce it to zero by
having no legates at all, though that could be avoided
by taxing the governors themselves rather than the
legates. Even then, though, it would still penalize
governors of small provinces.

Alternatively, the amount of money each legate (or
each governor) had to pay could be worked out by
looking at the number of citizens in that person's
province. That would be fairer, though it would not
provide an incentive to recruit new citizens. But then
it would penalize governors or legates who couldn't
persuade their citizens to pay taxes, and I'm not sure
what the advantage would be.

Could you explain in more detail how you suggest the
system ought to work, and what you think the
advantages would be?





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28501 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Cultural contest - Rules
AVETE CIVES ROMANI

Here follow the rules for the Ludi Romani cultural contest,
organized for the cohors of our Aedilis M Iul Perusianus.

The rules are simple: I will post here once a day for two weeks
(from Monday to Friday) an historical quiz.
All you have to do is to read it and answer to me, at my email
address (21aprile AT email DOT it).
DO NOT ANSWER HERE, THE ANSWER WOULD BE JUDGED WRONG ANYWAY!
You have 24 hours to answer the question.
Anyone can start this cultural contest anytime since the first
question has been published.
2 pts for the completely correct answers, 1 for the partially
correct ones, 0 for the wrong ones.
I will held, and publish daily, the classification.

Honour and glory for the final winner!

Now, enjoy our historical contest!

VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28502 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: FIRST QUESTION CUL CONT LUDI ROMANI
AVETE CIVES

The first question for the Ludi Romani cultural contest:

Which was the ancient name of Collis Aventinus, in Rome, and what is
the origin of this name?

You have 24 hours to answer, just send it to 21aprile AT email DOT
it.

VALETE!
L IUL SULLA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28503 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Gaius Iulius Iulianus' NR Status
Salve,

Gaius Iulius, you did not hear from me because I was away on vacation over
Labor Day weekend. I've only been back for about an hour and just now see your
post!

Your 2004 taxes in Nova Roma HAVE been paid. I sent payment by Paypal for
the full amount plus the "late charge". It may take some time for you to be
listed as a fully paid Assidui Citizen on the website, but technically you're
all set.

It is my belief that this brings you in good standing as Flamen Florealis.
If anyone questions your status I can always forward the PayPal confirmation of
payment to them.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


Gaius Iulius Iulianus writes:

Salvete to the Censors or to whom it may concern! I'm
having trouble getting any word out of the Pontifex
Maximus Marcus Cassius Julianus, and I haven't heard
anything more from any of the Censors concerning my
present status within Nova Roma! Were my taxes ever
paid?! Am I still a "socius?!" What gives here?! I
haven't had ANY more communication whatsoever from
anyone concerned and this doesn't speak well as far as
I am concerned!!! I am sorry, but what am I to think?!
Anyway, and with all due respect, I hope to please
hear from someone in this regard! Valete! Frater GAIVS
IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Flamen Floralis, Senior Paterfamilias
Gentis Iuliae.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28504 From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
Salve,

Augustine I wrote:

> I have long been a citizen and proponent of Nova Roma, and I've
> also been a supporter of a form of taxation, though I haven't felt
> motivated myself to make gigantic financial contributions to Nova Roma
> because of my being essentially, though unintentionally, barred from
> governmental positions that I've been seeking for a long time.
>
> I have voiced my concerns about not having been made the legate of
> Vermont within the Nova Brittania province in the past, simply because
> of a former resident's seniority within the province. I believe it
> would be more practicial in Northern New England for me to be
> officially appointed a regional leader, recognized by Nova Roman
> government, as most Nova Roman residents of Vermont reside very close
> to me.

Forgive me for saying so, but this sounds rather petulant of you.

Just because the governor of Nova Britannia hasn't chosen to appoint you
as a legatus is no reason to temper your involvement in, dedication to,
and contributions to Nova Roma. That's a decision of a single
individual, and historically the Senate has given our provincial
governors quite a wide berth in such internal decisions, and wisely so,
in my opinion. Suitability for legate is not based solely on seniority,
but on a variety of factors, and I would daresay that one's
participation in Nova Roma as a whole, as well as in Provincial matters,
would count in that decision.

If you are inclined to take a practical suggestion, why not set up an
oppidium in Vermont? Especially if most of our cives are within an easy
drive, as you say, it should be an easy matter to set such a thing up. I
would be more than happy to help in such an effort, as much as I can,
from my experience of setting up such a thing here in New Jersey.

And I would also point out that as duumvir of an oppidium, you'd have
more opportunity to interact with your fellow cives on a practical and
personal level.

So the governor doesn't want to appoint you as legatus. So what? Form a
local group and get some real on-the-ground interest going. I guarantee
that'll be worth more than mere financial contributions. Of course, I
suppose that depends on how "gigantic" you were talking about...

Hope that helps.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28505 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: An important week-end for NR
AVETE OMNES

During the last week-end Provincia Italia officially took part to
the first and most important Roman re-enactment and experimental
archaeology event in Italy, the "Mercato della Centuriazione" in
Villadose.
During these three days the whole town turns into a Roman town. A
Roman market rises and every inhabitant get dressed the Roman way.
The legionaries build their encampment and four teams from the Roman
cities of Hatria, Hostilia, Patavium and, of course, Roma, prepare
for the Ludi.
On Friday night the Greek tragedy "Antigone" by Sophocles, was
performed.
On Saturday there was the official opening of the event with a
propitiatory ritual in Jupiter's honour. Then the Roman encampment
of Legio I Italica was opened so that people could visit it.
During the day there were military trainings (both the legionaries
and the praetorians) and some dance by the "Ancient Music and Dance
Department" of the Villadose Archaeological Group.
Aedilis Curulis Marcus Iulius Perusianus and I also took part to the
local congress talking about the Magna Mater Project. This congress
was very interesting and a lot of matters where discussed, such as
medicine in Roman age, Roman vinification techniques, the role of
experimentation in the understanding of Roman military techniques
and tactics, the creation of a DVD on Roman centuriation, a project
of reconstruction of a Venetic village etc.
At the end of the congress the President of the Villadose
Archaeological Group and the town mayor congratulated with us on our
activity.
Then the Roman Centuriation museum opened its doors, as well as a
very interesting exhibition about the results of the excavations in
the Roman villa found a few years ago right in Villadose.
On Sunday there were more military training and fighting, and more
Roman music. Then a long Roman parade and, finally, the Ludi! The
four teams challenged each other to race, fight, javelin throwing
and harpastum! (some kind of rugby)
Then you have to add a lot of Roman wine and mulsum, food, fun,
history, etc. ;-)
We also had a quite nice stand just in front of the Roman
encampment, and a lot of people came to ask for information and to
get material about NR. We also sold a lot of NR coins.
In addition it has been a wonderful opportunity to gather a lot of
Novaroman citizens from all over Italy.
As you can imagine it has been a very important event for Nova Roma
in Italy. Now a lot of new people know about us, and we got
recognition for what we are doing. That's the kind of things that
help Nova Roma growing, and last week-end we had the proof! We can
say it has been a step forward for Nova Roma!

Of course, you'll soon see the pictures! ;-)

Concluding, let me thank all the citizens who took part in the
organization of the event, the Legio I Italica for having been so
kind with us, and the Villadose Archaeological Group and its
President.

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Propraetor Italiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28506 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

I believe that this is the person, Flamen Florealis.

I am of the opinion that if a priest within Nova Roma EVER becomes listed as
a socius then they should loose their priesthood, as the priesthood is for
citizens and citizens only and a socius is "technically" not a citizen, and
therefore unable to hold a priesthood.

I am also of the opinion that everyone should have to pay their own taxes.
Or if someone is going to give them a handout they should be thankful and not
make a big deal about when the handout is given.

But, that is my (more than likely unpopular) opinion.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/6/2004 1:49:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:

Alternatively, there is a Gaius Iulius Iulianus listed
as a socius and flamen Florealis, though he is not a
paterfamilias either. Is this you?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28507 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Salve Athanasius ~

Just one minor quibble, if I may: I for one have been sponsoring
another Citizen's taxes for two tax periods now, and gladly. Nova Roma
needs all the taxes it can get, for our various projects, so anyone who
can really should consider sponsoring someone who cannot.

For the good of the Republic.

Vale bene
~ S E M Troianus

On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 08:23 PM, AthanasiosofSpfd@...
wrote:

>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> I believe that this is the person, Flamen Florealis.
>
> I am of the opinion that if a priest within Nova Roma EVER becomes
> listed as
> a socius then they should loose their priesthood, as the priesthood is
> for
> citizens and citizens only and a socius is "technically" not a
> citizen, and
> therefore unable to hold a priesthood.
>
> I am also of the opinion that everyone should have to pay their own
> taxes.
> Or if someone is going to give them a handout they should be thankful
> and not
> make a big deal about when the handout is given.
>
> But, that is my (more than likely unpopular) opinion.
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 9/6/2004 1:49:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
>
> Alternatively, there is a Gaius Iulius Iulianus listed
> as a socius and flamen Florealis, though he is not a
> paterfamilias either. Is this you?
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28508 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
i smell patronage...
--- hermeticagnosis@...
<hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:
> Salve Athanasius ~
>
> Just one minor quibble, if I may: I for one have
been sponsoring
> another Citizen's taxes for two tax periods now, and
gladly. Nova Roma
> needs all the taxes it can get, for our various
projects, so anyone who
> can really should consider sponsoring someone who
cannot.
>
> For the good of the Republic.
>
> Vale bene
> ~ S E M Troianus
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 08:23 PM,
AthanasiosofSpfd@...
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
> >
> > I believe that this is the person, Flamen
Florealis.
> >
> > I am of the opinion that if a priest within Nova
Roma EVER becomes
> > listed as
> > a socius then they should loose their priesthood,
as the priesthood is
> > for
> > citizens and citizens only and a socius is
"technically" not a
> > citizen, and
> > therefore unable to hold a priesthood.
> >
> > I am also of the opinion that everyone should have
to pay their own
> > taxes.
> > Or if someone is going to give them a handout they
should be thankful
> > and not
> > make a big deal about when the handout is given.
> >
> > But, that is my (more than likely unpopular)
opinion.
> >
> > Valete;
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/2004 1:49:34 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
> > a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
> >
> > Alternatively, there is a Gaius Iulius Iulianus
listed
> > as a socius and flamen Florealis, though he is
not a
> > paterfamilias either. Is this you?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28509 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Salve,

In a previous post I have mentioned that Gaius Iulius Iulianus' taxes have
indeed been paid, and that he technically now holds "Assidui" status for the
current year. I don't know how long it will take for the website to reflect
the fact. To reply to Athanasius:

Gaius Modius Athanasius writes:

I am of the opinion that if a priest within Nova Roma EVER becomes listed as
a socius then they should loose their priesthood, as the priesthood is for
citizens and citizens only and a socius is "technically" not a citizen, and
therefore unable to hold a priesthood.

Cassius:
Gaius Iulius Iulianus was unaware that we now have rules that Citizens must
hold Assidui status in order to become a member of the Priesthood. Upon
finding this out, he has been most active in seeing that his status is "legal" so
that he may continue in the public service of the Gods.

The fault in this case is actually mine... I had mentioned some months ago
to Gaius Iulius that I would be happy to pay his taxes for him since he is
unable. Unfortunately it slipped my mind and am quite glad that Gaius Iulius was
able to remind me about it.

Athanasius:
I am also of the opinion that everyone should have to pay their own taxes.
Or if someone is going to give them a handout they should be thankful and not
make a big deal about when the handout is given.

Cassius:
There will always be cases of a very few people being unable to pay their
Citizen taxes. If others are willing to assist, what possible difference could
it make to Nova Roma?

Also, it seems rather low to imply that Gaius Iulius is somehow "not
grateful enough" or "is making a big deal" about the situation by doing all that he
can to make sure his Citizen and Priesthood status are set to rights. He
wants to do the right thing and obviously wants to continue his Priesthood. These
are laudable actions rather than a reason for you to continue to call for
his removal.

Athanasius:
But, that is my (more than likely unpopular) opinion.

Cassius:
I must admit this opinion is unpopular with me at least. Would you wish to
be summarily removed from your offices if you ran into financial difficulty?
Would you consider it fair for it to be "illegal" for anyone knowing your
dedication to the Gods to be able to come to your aid?

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28510 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
---Ave Manius Constantinus Serapio Propraetor Italia:

You certainly packed alot of activity into a weekend :)

Provincia Italia sounds like one of the top Provinciae for a citizen
of Nova Roma to live!

My sincere admiration for all that you, and your fellow magistrates
and citizens for your successful efforts in promoting the Magna
Mater project and NR as a whole.

Laurels!! :)
Pompeia




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:
> AVETE OMNES
>
> During the last week-end Provincia Italia officially took part to
> the first and most important Roman re-enactment and experimental
> archaeology event in Italy, the "Mercato della Centuriazione" in
> Villadose.
> During these three days the whole town turns into a Roman town. A
> Roman market rises and every inhabitant get dressed the Roman way.
> The legionaries build their encampment and four teams from the
Roman
> cities of Hatria, Hostilia, Patavium and, of course, Roma, prepare
> for the Ludi.
> On Friday night the Greek tragedy "Antigone" by Sophocles, was
> performed.
> On Saturday there was the official opening of the event with a
> propitiatory ritual in Jupiter's honour. Then the Roman encampment
> of Legio I Italica was opened so that people could visit it.
> During the day there were military trainings (both the legionaries
> and the praetorians) and some dance by the "Ancient Music and
Dance
> Department" of the Villadose Archaeological Group.
> Aedilis Curulis Marcus Iulius Perusianus and I also took part to
the
> local congress talking about the Magna Mater Project. This
congress
> was very interesting and a lot of matters where discussed, such as
> medicine in Roman age, Roman vinification techniques, the role of
> experimentation in the understanding of Roman military techniques
> and tactics, the creation of a DVD on Roman centuriation, a
project
> of reconstruction of a Venetic village etc.
> At the end of the congress the President of the Villadose
> Archaeological Group and the town mayor congratulated with us on
our
> activity.
> Then the Roman Centuriation museum opened its doors, as well as a
> very interesting exhibition about the results of the excavations
in
> the Roman villa found a few years ago right in Villadose.
> On Sunday there were more military training and fighting, and more
> Roman music. Then a long Roman parade and, finally, the Ludi! The
> four teams challenged each other to race, fight, javelin throwing
> and harpastum! (some kind of rugby)
> Then you have to add a lot of Roman wine and mulsum, food, fun,
> history, etc. ;-)
> We also had a quite nice stand just in front of the Roman
> encampment, and a lot of people came to ask for information and to
> get material about NR. We also sold a lot of NR coins.
> In addition it has been a wonderful opportunity to gather a lot of
> Novaroman citizens from all over Italy.
> As you can imagine it has been a very important event for Nova
Roma
> in Italy. Now a lot of new people know about us, and we got
> recognition for what we are doing. That's the kind of things that
> help Nova Roma growing, and last week-end we had the proof! We can
> say it has been a step forward for Nova Roma!
>
> Of course, you'll soon see the pictures! ;-)
>
> Concluding, let me thank all the citizens who took part in the
> organization of the event, the Legio I Italica for having been so
> kind with us, and the Villadose Archaeological Group and its
> President.
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Propraetor Italiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28511 From: Marcus Cassius Julianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes wrote:

> i smell patronage...

Cassius respondit:

It is one thing to help a friend because they're a friend, or simply
to make sure that Nova Roma doesn't lose good, interested and active
people who for some reason can't pay the Citizen Tax.

It would be something else entirely to pay someone's Citizen taxes in
expectation of "something in return." That is not the case here, nor
have I ever known it in any other similar situation in Nova Roma.

There are many folks here, myself included, who just want Nova Roma
to *work*, and are willing to put their money where their mouth is
when necessary. It would be a tragedy for Nova Roma to lose active
and interested officers should they happen to fall onto temporary
hard times.

Most organizations make provisions for the few interested members
that for some valid reason cannot pay dues for a time. We currently
have no such option. It is therefore up to us to help one another in
certain rare situations. I'd certainly hope that someone would do the
same for me if I fell into a problem where I couldn't pay! I'd also
damned well expect that they were doing it for Nova Roma, not because
they expected that I would "owe them" political favors.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28512 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
whoa! before im overrun by a deluge of angry
responses.i totally agree w/ helping each other out. i
was kidding about patronage! where are the senses of
humor?
--- cassius622@... <cassius622@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
wrote:
>
> > i smell patronage...
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> It is one thing to help a friend because they're a
friend, or simply
> to make sure that Nova Roma doesn't lose good,
interested and active
> people who for some reason can't pay the Citizen
Tax.
>
> It would be something else entirely to pay someone's
Citizen taxes in
> expectation of "something in return." That is not
the case here, nor
> have I ever known it in any other similar situation
in Nova Roma.
>
> There are many folks here, myself included, who just
want Nova Roma
> to *work*, and are willing to put their money where
their mouth is
> when necessary. It would be a tragedy for Nova Roma
to lose active
> and interested officers should they happen to fall
onto temporary
> hard times.
>
> Most organizations make provisions for the few
interested members
> that for some valid reason cannot pay dues for a
time. We currently
> have no such option. It is therefore up to us to
help one another in
> certain rare situations. I'd certainly hope that
someone would do the
> same for me if I fell into a problem where I
couldn't pay! I'd also
> damned well expect that they were doing it for Nova
Roma, not because
> they expected that I would "owe them" political
favors.
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
>
>
>
>
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28513 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Gaius Modius Athanasios Marco Cassio Juliano salutem dicit

I have ran into financial difficulty, and have for over the past year.
Money is very tight, and very rare. I understand what it means to be financially
challenged, and my situation just got worse with my wife recently loosing
her job.

You have paid the taxes of our Flamen Florialis, so order has been restored.
That, is a good thing.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 9/6/2004 9:16:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cassius622@... writes:

Cassius:
I must admit this opinion is unpopular with me at least. Would you wish to
be summarily removed from your offices if you ran into financial
difficulty?
Would you consider it fair for it to be "illegal" for anyone knowing your
dedication to the Gods to be able to come to your aid?

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28514 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Patronage? Neat trick, that: He's a minor and cannot vote! :-)
However, he's also a friend and very proud of his Nova Roman
Citizenship, and very much wanted Assidui status. No, our Pontifex
Maximus has the right of it: It's a matter of friendship.

Besides: $35 per vote? Are you mad?
Kidding, just kidding! ;-)

Vale
~ Troianus

On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 08:59 PM, raymond fuentes wrote:

>
> i smell patronage...
> --- hermeticagnosis@...
> <hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:
>> Salve Athanasius ~
>>
>> Just one minor quibble, if I may: I for one have
> been sponsoring
>> another Citizen's taxes for two tax periods now, and
> gladly. Nova Roma
>> needs all the taxes it can get, for our various
> projects, so anyone who
>> can really should consider sponsoring someone who
> cannot.
>>
>> For the good of the Republic.
>>
>> Vale bene
>> ~ S E M Troianus
>>
>> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 08:23 PM,
> AthanasiosofSpfd@...
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>>>
>>> I believe that this is the person, Flamen
> Florealis.
>>>
>>> I am of the opinion that if a priest within Nova
> Roma EVER becomes
>>> listed as
>>> a socius then they should loose their priesthood,
> as the priesthood is
>>> for
>>> citizens and citizens only and a socius is
> "technically" not a
>>> citizen, and
>>> therefore unable to hold a priesthood.
>>>
>>> I am also of the opinion that everyone should have
> to pay their own
>>> taxes.
>>> Or if someone is going to give them a handout they
> should be thankful
>>> and not
>>> make a big deal about when the handout is given.
>>>
>>> But, that is my (more than likely unpopular)
> opinion.
>>>
>>> Valete;
>>>
>>> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>>>
>>> In a message dated 9/6/2004 1:49:34 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
>>> a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
>>>
>>> Alternatively, there is a Gaius Iulius Iulianus
> listed
>>> as a socius and flamen Florealis, though he is
> not a
>>> paterfamilias either. Is this you?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> =====
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28515 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Re: My NR status, again! (and maybe a bit of hipocracy???)
---Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus et Omnes S.P.D.

I am not sure how this citizen feels he in a position of authority
to determine reasons, motivations, what have you, for payment of
taxes to Nova Roma, by citizens, whether they choose to pay for just
themselves, or decide to extend a hand to those who cannot remit for
one reason or another.

My goodness, the Senate has forgiven taxes, or atleast delayed
payment for entire provincia (e)? in financial distress..is this an
act of partisanship with a 'smell', or an extention of Roman virtue
to a functioning provincia in financial distress due to
macronational exingencies???

The Album Gentium, as of this time of writing, shows Flavius Fides
as a CAPUT CENSI. So, unless he has an explanation, I find his
words a bandwidth of straw, and again, in a 'miserly' position to
evaluate anyone's motivations.

Valete Omnes
Po


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cassius Julianus"
<cassius622@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes wrote:
>
> > i smell patronage...
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> It is one thing to help a friend because they're a friend, or
simply
> to make sure that Nova Roma doesn't lose good, interested and
active
> people who for some reason can't pay the Citizen Tax.
>
> It would be something else entirely to pay someone's Citizen taxes
in
> expectation of "something in return." That is not the case here,
nor
> have I ever known it in any other similar situation in Nova Roma.
>
> There are many folks here, myself included, who just want Nova
Roma
> to *work*, and are willing to put their money where their mouth is
> when necessary. It would be a tragedy for Nova Roma to lose active
> and interested officers should they happen to fall onto temporary
> hard times.
>
> Most organizations make provisions for the few interested members
> that for some valid reason cannot pay dues for a time. We
currently
> have no such option. It is therefore up to us to help one another
in
> certain rare situations. I'd certainly hope that someone would do
the
> same for me if I fell into a problem where I couldn't pay! I'd
also
> damned well expect that they were doing it for Nova Roma, not
because
> they expected that I would "owe them" political favors.
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28516 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: Patronage (was Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My NR status, again!)
Salvete,

And even if it *was* patronage (and I'm not saying it was ~_^), so what?
What could be more Roman than patronage? What we might view today as an
unscrupulous practice of "buying votes" was simply part of the social
and political fabric of ancient Rome. Your patron helps you out with his
money and influence, and you support him in elections. I mean really,
what sort of ungrateful bastard wouldn't vote for his patron? ^_^ *lol*

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix

P.S. and before anyone starts jumping to conclusions I am neither
anyone's patron nor client. I just don't see why anyone shouldn't feel
free to develop that sort of relationship here in NR if they so choose.



Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus wrote:

>Patronage? Neat trick, that: He's a minor and cannot vote! :-)
>However, he's also a friend and very proud of his Nova Roman
>Citizenship, and very much wanted Assidui status. No, our Pontifex
>Maximus has the right of it: It's a matter of friendship.
>
>Besides: $35 per vote? Are you mad?
>Kidding, just kidding! ;-)
>
>Vale
> ~ Troianus
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28517 From: octavius_romulus Date: 2004-09-06
Subject: An important Opportunity for NR
Ave,


Making my first appearance here in the main discussion, let me
introduce myself. I am Lucianus Octavius Romulus, citizen since
November of last year, and I come to you all with a suggestion.


Upon reading the news of the wild success of the Italian provincia's
exploits over the weekend, it occured to me: why not take that
success, its main concept, and see if we can't make it grow into the
beginnings of an even larger success? By this I mean, why don't we
try to encourage this type of event in more locales, on a grander
scale? I also write with the Roman Market Day looming in the near
future in my region; that event I greatly laud. But we could do so
much more. Let me give some examples:


We could easily extend our hand to local public schools, teachers of
history, much in the way that SCA does. We could re-create whole
swaths of Roman culture in front of the eyes of the waiting audience
of school children, not only lending a bit more publicity to our name,
but also making history so much more than words on a page to these
young folk. I myself, a good number of years ago, watched with eager
eyes a troupe from the SCA - I was no more than eleven years then -
and it was one of the most memorable moments of that time. I hear now
of my local schools having "Shakespeare Day", where all the students
re-enact in some way the Elizabethan Era (some make costumes, others
produce plays, others still build authentic trebuchets!)


On a similar note, has anyone in the US seen the public television
program, Frontier House? I think you see where I'm going with this,
but for those of you who may not know, it documents the life of a
modern family plopped down into a "frontier" home in Montana who must
eat, sleep, farm, and do all else in the manner of the "pioneers" for
a number of weeks. Just think: Roman House. I recall seeing another
program which populated a small village in the manner of the early
Massachusetts colonists. Has anyone thought to approach some
organization like PBS (or, I presume, the BBC) with a proposal of
something like this? We could serve as experts on the ground in these
cases! It would be the ultimate publicity for Nova Roma: national
television.


Just a few thoughts I wanted shared. Again, congrats to Italia for a
successful weekend, and may the gods bless us with a similar Roman
Market Day.


Vale


Lucianus Octavius Romulus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28518 From: Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: salt
C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix S.P.D.

Salve.

>kriss112233 <kriss112233@...> wrote: hej!
>
>what for is the salt on an altar used for?
>
>thanks for answers
>Kriss!
>
>
>
In public sacrifices performed according to the Ritus Romanus, Mola
Salsa - a mix of roasted spelt flour and salt ritually made each year by
the Vestals - was sprinkled along the back of the sacrifical animal. The
officiant then sprinkled wine on the animals brow and passed a knife
along its spine. This act consecrated the animal to the God/ess being
addressed, making it /sacer/ (i.e. the property of the God/ess). Mola
Salsa could also be offered up in its own right in certain bloodless
public sacrifices. It is not clear if Mola Salsa was made by anyone
other than the Vestals or was used in any private sacrifices or rituals.

Vale bene,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28519 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: My NR status, again!
Salve Cassi Iuliane,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cassius Julianus"
<cassius622@a...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes wrote:
>
> > i smell patronage...
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> It is one thing to help a friend because they're a friend, or
>simply to make sure that Nova Roma doesn't lose good, interested and
>active people who for some reason can't pay the Citizen Tax.
>
> It would be something else entirely to pay someone's Citizen taxes
>in expectation of "something in return." That is not the case here,
>nor have I ever known it in any other similar situation in Nova
>Roma.

Not that there would be anything wrong if such situations existed or
if that was what you were doing here. The patron-client relationship
was (is?) one of the most Roman of institutions.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28520 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Ludi Romani photo quiz : photo 1 / 10
Salvete Cives,

just to remind you that you have only two hours to go to figure out
what place is displayed at this link:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz

That's very easy!
In a few hours the new picture will be displayed and the answer to
the previous picture. Also a first rating of the NR citizens who
answered.

So, just write your answer writing to m_iulius@... (m_iulius at
yahoo dot it)!

valete

> M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
> -------------------------
> Aedilis Curulis
> Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
> Magister Academiae Italicae
> ---------------------------------------------
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> http://italia.novaroma.org
> http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> ---------------------------------------------
> AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM


-- In novaroma_europe@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Iulius <m_iulius@y...>
wrote:
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> Just how well are you able to identify photos depicting the glory
of Rome?
>
> Well here's your chance to show the entire republic and all
peregrini your expertise!!
>
> Each day, for 10 days, a picture will be displayed... something
related to Roman engineering, architecture, sculptures, arts in
general.
>
> Your job, once you've viewed the photo of a given day, is to write
the Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus <M_Iulius@y...> (m_iulius
at yahoo dot it) and identify the subject matter of the photo, and
the location of the subject.
>
> Easy, right? For citizens of Nova Roma this otta be a snap :)
>
> For the first 5 photos displayed (from Sept 6th to 10th), the
following scores will be awarded:
>
> 1 if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.
>
> For the last 5 photos displayed (from Sept 13rd to 17th), which
will be just a 'wee bit' more
> difficult to identify both subject matter and location, you will
receive:
>
> 2 point for being partly correct, and 3 points for being completely
correct.
>
> The keenest eyes and the most historically learned of the Ludi
Romani will be determined by who has the most points at the end of
the 10 days.
>
> Every new picture will be displayed at around 12.00(Roman time)
beginning later today (now being almost midnight in Rome); you will
have 24 hrs to send your answer!
>
>
> Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!
>
>
>
>
> M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
> -------------------------
> Aedilis Curulis
> Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
> Magister Academiae Italicae
> ---------------------------------------------
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> http://italia.novaroma.org
> http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> ---------------------------------------------
> AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28521 From: Petrus Domitianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: map
Salvete!

i found this http://www.terra-alliance.com/database/citymap.htm
who knows somthing about

Valete!
Petrus Domitianus A.L.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28522 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

24 hrs are gone and it's time for the second picture! The link is the same:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz

IMPORTANT: even if you haven't sent an email yesterday, you can send it today and still be in the game!!! There a lot of time to climb the positions! :-)

On the proposed page you will find a link with the answer to yesterday's pic and a first top ranking list!

Just write to m_iulius@... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject. Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)

Even for this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.

remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around midday, the third picture!!!

Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!




M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
-------------------------
Aedilis Curulis
Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
---------------------------------------------
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
---------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

---------------------------------
Scopri Mister Yahoo! - il fantatorneo sul calcio di Yahoo! Sport'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28523 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Ave, amice Perusuiane.

Nova Roman name: QUINTUS SALIX CANTABER.

Subject matter of the photo: STATUA EQUESTRE DELL'IMPERATORE MARCO AURELIO.

Location of the subject: PIAZZA COLONNA nel monte CAPITOLINO: ROMA

Vale bene.

Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28524 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
I'm glad that I've opened discussion on an idea that's been, more
recently, running through my mind. The initial goal within this system
of taxation, in my view, would be to spread the idea of actually
having to pay taxes as a citizen of Nova Roma... for I think far too
many of our current citizenry believe that giving money to Rome should
be an entirely optional action.
If legates were taxed, I believe there would be greater incentive
(from the perspective of legates) to collect taxes on a more local
level. I believe governors should also be taxed, but with respect to
their legatii and their respective taxes. Therein, I suppose I'm
suggesting a sort of system of taxation that is run on a
sovereignity-suzereignty sort of mentality. (One can allude to the
lands of noble lords in the Middle Ages, each lesser noble paying
taxes to the nobles above him, until the money finds itself in large
sums in the hands of the central government, which in our case, is the
Consulate).
I'm willing to pay an annual duty of $100 if made Legatus of
Vermont, although there are only 4 citizens other than myself
currently residing there at the current time. This pledge, if
undertaken by all legatii across our nation; indeed empire, should
serve to bring forth unprecendented revenue for Nova Roma. I'm
staunchly holding to a pledge of raising over $500 in Nova Brittannia
alone within this current year, AUC.
I do need, and shall wait, for my appt. from Roma and the Consuls
as Legate of Vermont, but will begin preparations for such immediately.

En bref: A legatus is an appointed official of Nova Roma, if they
believe they shouldn't have to pay taxes... they aren't worthy of
their distinction and authority. Though the common citizen who might
be only involved in Nova Roma for entertainment of educational
purposes... I don't believe a tax should be as firmly levied.

Ave atque vale.

T. Ambrosius Quintilianus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28525 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Ager Publicus
I have recently come upon 5 acres of land in Culberson county Texas,
where, as many or all of you probably already know, is where NR
currently owns 10 acres of land. I am interested in ceding this land
to Nova Roma, in exchange for political authority within the America
Austrooccidentalis Province.

Consular and other governmental personas can contact me by email at
ebyrnes@... in order to obtain other information as well as
telephone numbers, etc.

T. Ambrosius Quintilianus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28526 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Germanicus
I'm sorry if I sounded petulant in my previous post... I didn't
mean to convey that sort of a, "vibe." The matter isn't so much that
the governor doesn't want to appoint me legate, in fact, the last time
I requested the appt... it was 2002. I'm merely reviving the issue,
because, as I'd imagine you'd agree, the recognition of an individual
by Nova Roma's government gives the individual extended legitimacy for
spearheading local events. If this isn't the case, I'd imagine we'd
have done away with the position of legate. If my request sounds
petulant, I would by all means accept a title of "soccer mom" so long
as it is recognized by Nova Roma, so that I can better organize events
within my region, but to my understanding, in lieu of, "soccer mom" NR
choses to make people legatii. Furthermore, it is inefficient and
conducive of stagnation to give a title of legate to someone not
currently residing in the regio over which they preside.

I immensely respect your role in founding Nova Roma, as consul and
as brief dictator during the bellum civiles... I wouldn't by any means
want to ruffle your feathers, simply because you are one of NR's
founders and, I believe, deserve the respect as such.

Currently, I believe NR needs an influx of Classics students,
historians, and practitioners of the Religio, I am a mixture of these
three demographics, and it rather ruffles my feathers to see NR's
stagnation in any of its regii or provinciae, no matter how rural or
distant from New Jersey, or other places where prominent NR citizens
reside. I am currently the only citizen of the Vermont regio who is
voices my converns on government, which rather makes me a de jure
representative of the members from that region. I know the rest of the
few members of this regio, and while this might be a rarity within NR,
I consider any overlooking NR might show me, an abandonment of my
regio as a whole. I trust the central government will offer support to
the citizens on the northern fringe of Nova Brittania.

-T.A.Q.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28527 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Oh... That error I have made!

I'm sorry... I Regret it a lot


Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28528 From: Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
Avete

If, I'm an idiot... but only for today (I think)

Pardon pardon, pardon...

Naturally, I retire of the competition of the photo quiz...

Vale.

Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus


----- Mensaje original -----
De: Marcus Iulius
Para: NR main
CC: NR Geographia
Enviado: martes, 07 de septiembre de 2004 12:25
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10



Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

24 hrs are gone and it's time for the second picture! The link is the same:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz

IMPORTANT: even if you haven't sent an email yesterday, you can send it today and still be in the game!!! There a lot of time to climb the positions! :-)

On the proposed page you will find a link with the answer to yesterday's pic and a first top ranking list!

Just write to m_iulius@... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject. Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)

Even for this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.

remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around midday, the third picture!!!

Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!




M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
-------------------------
Aedilis Curulis
Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
---------------------------------------------
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
---------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28529 From: Bill Gawne Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
Petrus Domitianus wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> i found this http://www.terra-alliance.com/database/citymap.htm
> who knows somthing about

It's pretty obviously something from a fantasy role-playing game.

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28530 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: to po...
salve all, yes po, i am headcount. i realized that a
month ago when i wrote 2 checks.[ 1 for the spqr ring
and 1 for taxes] i said i was joking. was that needed

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28531 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
Salvete Quirites, et salve Serapio,

Manius Constantinus Serapio wrote:

> AVETE OMNES
>
> During the last week-end Provincia Italia officially took part to
> the first and most important Roman re-enactment and experimental
> archaeology event in Italy, the "Mercato della Centuriazione" in
> Villadose.
[...]

Wow! What an amazing event. I wish I could have been there.

My thanks to all in Provincia Italia who contributed to this effort, and
made such a great event possible. I hope that it becomes an annual event.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28532 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
> i found this http://www.terra-alliance.com/database/citymap.htm
> who knows somthing about

Even in recent years, we're not the first to use the name "Nova Roma";
Marvel Comics used that name in the 1980s for a Roman colony in
Brazil, hidden in a jungle, cut off from the rest of civilization
for 2000 years. One of its citizens, a super-powered "mutant", became
a member of the team in the "New Mutants" series. The last paragraph
on that website makes some references to these comics.

More recently, the latest installment of John Barnes' "Thousand Cultures"
series (three books, two more planned) makes a few very brief references
to a colony called Nova Roma. These books are about the reunification of
humanity after a thousand-year diaspora, with thirty planets originally
settled by sublight colony ships now reunited due to the discovery
of a teleportation device. Many of these cultures were experimental,
populated by volunteers with a vision, and he classifies Nova Roma
as one of these.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

Curiosity killed the cat;
Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28533 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
---Salve Salix Cantaber Amice:

As one who has had alot of experience at various times of 'idiot for
a day' I'm sure more than once :), I must ask you not to be so hard
on yourself. A simple mistake, right?

"No Biggie"
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS"
<qsalixcant@y...> wrote:
> Avete
>
> If, I'm an idiot... but only for today (I think)
>
> Pardon pardon, pardon...
>
> Naturally, I retire of the competition of the photo quiz...
>
> Vale.
>
> Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus
>
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De: Marcus Iulius
> Para: NR main
> CC: NR Geographia
> Enviado: martes, 07 de septiembre de 2004 12:25
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
>
>
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> 24 hrs are gone and it's time for the second picture! The link
is the same:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz
>
> IMPORTANT: even if you haven't sent an email yesterday, you can
send it today and still be in the game!!! There a lot of time to
climb the positions! :-)
>
> On the proposed page you will find a link with the answer to
yesterday's pic and a first top ranking list!
>
> Just write to m_iulius@y... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the
answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the
subject. Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)
>
> Even for this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are
partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.
>
> remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around
midday, the third picture!!!
>
> Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!
>
>
>
>
> M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
> -------------------------
> Aedilis Curulis
> Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
> Magister Academiae Italicae
> ---------------------------------------------
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> http://italia.novaroma.org
> http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> ---------------------------------------------
> AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28534 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Ager Publicus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Augustine I" <EricByrnes1984@h...>
wrote:
> I have recently come upon 5 acres of land in Culberson county Texas,
> where, as many or all of you probably already know, is where NR
> currently owns 10 acres of land. I am interested in ceding this land
> to Nova Roma, in exchange for political authority within the America
> Austrooccidentalis Province.


Political authority over a province on the other side of the
continent? Whatever do you mean by that?

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28535 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Concerned about appts.
A. Apollonius Cordus T. Ambrosio Quintiliano
omnibusque sal.

It might be useful to mention a few things before we
talk any more about your idea for taxation.

Firstly, with regard to your own status, it's
important to say that the senate and the consules have
no say in which legati a governor appoints. A governor
is completely free to choose his own legati, and no
matter how much money you offer to Nova Roma, no one
is going to overrule the governor's decision. So I
strongly suggest that you stop asking the senate and
the consules to overrule your governor. It's not going
to happen, and it might make people annoyed. You need
to talk to your governor - he's the only one who can
give you that job. Vedius Germanicus' suggestion that
you could form an oppidum is also an excellent idea.

Secondly, I don't think it would be very easy to tax
legati directly. It seems that your province is
divided into regions, and that each region has a
legate. That's fine, of course, but it's not how every
province works. In Britannia, for instance, there are
two legati, but they do not have responsibility for
any particular region; in stead, they just help the
governor to govern the whole province. So in Britannia
your plan, as you've explained it, wouldn't quite work
- the two legati have exactly the same geographical
spheres of authority, so they would each have to tax
the same people, and the citizens of Britannia would
have to pay tax twice. Also, you propose to tax both
legati and governors. That would mean that the
citizens of Britannia would have to pay three
different taxes - one to each legatus, and the third
to the governor. So I think your plan is not quite
'ready to roll' - it would need some changes.

You suggest that a legate of Vermont could be taxed
$100. You also say that in Vermont there are 4
citizens. Okay, let's try some examples using that as
a basis. Let's imagine that the governor of your
province has ten legates, including the legate of
Vermont. Each pays $100. Vermont has 4 citizens, but
maybe the region governed by one of the other legati
has 8 citizens. That means the the citizens of Vermont
have to pay $25 dollars each, whereas the citizens of
this other region only have to pay $12.50. Is that
fair?

Also, let's go back to those ten legates. Ten legates
paying $100 each means that that your province would
be paying $1,000 a year to the central treasury. But
the citizens feel that their taxes are too heavy, and
they're becoming unhappy. The governor has an easy way
to make them happier: he sacks five legates, and makes
each legate's region twice as large. That means each
citizen is now paying only half what he paid before.
But he could go even further: he could sack all his
legates, and then his province would have to pay no
tax at all. Wonderful! But not exactly the result we
want to encourage, is it?

So let's imagine a slightly different system. In stead
of taxing the legates, we tax the governors. That
means two things: firstly, it means all the citizens
of that province pay at the same rate, which is
fairer; secondly, it means the governor can't reduce
the amount of money he owes by sacking legates. So
with that minor change, your idea is looking better.

I think it still has a couple of drawbacks, though.
One is that it's going to encourage governors to put
pressure on their citizens to pay up. Now, that's a
good thing in a way, but we don't want it to go too
far: we don't want people being bullied or harrassed.
The second drawback is that people will be reluctant
to offer themselves as candidates for the
governorships of provinces which don't have many
citizens, because if there aren't many citizens then
there's more chance that the governor will have to pay
the taxes out of his own pocket. So provinces with few
citizens might end up going without governors, while
populous and successful provinces will have no trouble
finding governors. That's the wrong way round, really,
because the unpopulated provinces are the ones we
ought to be encouraging, and they're the ones that
badly need governors to lead them.

So can you think of any way your idea could be adapted
to get around those two problems?





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28536 From: aoctaviaindagatrix Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Password
One attempt on me too. Same identity.

Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "k.a.wright" <k.a.wright@n...>
wrote:
> The request to reset the password came from
> 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> using Mozilla/4.0.
>
> Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28537 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Password
Salvete omnes,

Yes, I got the same thing as well. This happened last year also but
I deleted the notice each time.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus








--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aoctaviaindagatrix"
<christyacb@y...> wrote:
> One attempt on me too. Same identity.
>
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "k.a.wright" <k.a.wright@n...>
> wrote:
> > The request to reset the password came from
> > 3e44b874.adsl.enternet.hu (62.68.184.116)
> > at 04/09/04 02:02:52 (US/Central timezone)
> > using Mozilla/4.0.
> >
> > Why on earth would anyone attept to change my Nova Roma password?
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28538 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: map
Salvete omnes,

Also when surfing the net I see there is a hotel complex somewhere
in Italy called Nova Roma.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@c...> wrote:
>
>
> > i found this http://www.terra-alliance.com/database/citymap.htm
> > who knows somthing about
>
> Even in recent years, we're not the first to use the name "Nova
Roma";
> Marvel Comics used that name in the 1980s for a Roman colony in
> Brazil, hidden in a jungle, cut off from the rest of civilization
> for 2000 years. One of its citizens, a super-powered "mutant",
became
> a member of the team in the "New Mutants" series. The last
paragraph
> on that website makes some references to these comics.
>
> More recently, the latest installment of John Barnes' "Thousand
Cultures"
> series (three books, two more planned) makes a few very brief
references
> to a colony called Nova Roma. These books are about the
reunification of
> humanity after a thousand-year diaspora, with thirty planets
originally
> settled by sublight colony ships now reunited due to the discovery
> of a teleportation device. Many of these cultures were
experimental,
> populated by volunteers with a vision, and he classifies Nova Roma
> as one of these.
>
>
> --
> hucke@c...
> http://www.graveyards.com
>
> Curiosity killed the cat;
> Unspeakable rituals brought it back.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28539 From: deciusiunius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Germanicus
Salve T. Ambrosi,

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Augustine I" <EricByrnes1984@h...>
wrote:
>I'm merely reviving the issue,
> because, as I'd imagine you'd agree, the recognition of an
>individual by Nova Roma's government gives the individual extended
>legitimacy for spearheading local events. If this isn't the case,
>I'd imagine we'd have done away with the position of legate. If my
>request sounds petulant, I would by all means accept a title
>of "soccer mom" so long as it is recognized by Nova Roma, so that I
>can better organize events within my region,

As Germanicus said, you can form an oppidum in that part of the
state, since, as you say, the majority of the state's population
lives there.

When I was at UVM I plastered the campus with fliers regularly,
nothing prevents you from doing that.

> but to my understanding, in lieu of, "soccer mom" NR
> choses to make people legatii. Furthermore, it is inefficient and
> conducive of stagnation to give a title of legate to someone not
> currently residing in the regio over which they preside.

Hmm, last I looked I *do* live in this regio, albeit a very remote
part of it.

> Currently, I believe NR needs an influx of Classics students,
> historians, and practitioners of the Religio, I am a mixture of
>these three demographics, and it rather ruffles my feathers to see
>NR's stagnation in any of its regii or provinciae, no matter how
rural or
> distant from New Jersey, or other places where prominent NR citizens
> reside. I am currently the only citizen of the Vermont regio who is
> voices my converns on government, which rather makes me a de jure
> representative of the members from that region.

You're hardly the only one in Vermont who voices his concerns on
government. If you looked at the provincial page on the website
you'll see that. Vermont has been represented in the government since
the first day of Nova Roma.

Speaking of voices in government and promoting Nova Roma, I have
talked to you on IM and you expressed little interest in promoting
Nova Roma over in your part of the state. I didn't realize the lack
of interest came from a lack of a title. It's too bad because you
could be a lot of help because of your location near the populated
areas.

Also, I was reading with interest your disucssion of taxes and was
surprised to see you listed as capite censi for non-payment of taxes.
Is this is an error on the website or is it accurate?

>I know the rest of the
> few members of this regio, and while this might be a rarity within
>NR, I consider any overlooking NR might show me, an abandonment of my
> regio as a whole.

Any overlooking Nova Roma might show you is an overlooking of the
regio? That's a bit much.

If you want the job, ask the provincial governor. I have in the past
told our governors that if someone suitable in a more central,
populated location wants the position to by all means appointment the
person. I know I'm pretty isolated here. However, a self-described
petulant appeal helps your case little.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28540 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Second question Ludi Romani (waitin' for the I one...)
AVETE OMNES

While you still have some hours to answer to the I question of our
cultural contest for Ludi Romani, I invite you all to answer to the
II one, that follows.

The classification after the I question will be published as soon as
possible after the end of the 24 hrs.

II question:
Which was the first Republican Temple built? When was the Temple of
Saturnus inaugurated, as for the tradition?

BENE VALETE
L IUL SULLA,
for Aedilis Curulis M Iul Perusianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28541 From: Maior Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: An important week-end for NR
Avete;
no fair; Itali having all the fun! I'm taking some Hiberni over for
next year's event!
valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
Propraetrix Hiberniae
scriba Iuris et
Investigatio CFQ



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites, et salve Serapio,
>
> Manius Constantinus Serapio wrote:
>
> > AVETE OMNES
> >
> > During the last week-end Provincia Italia officially took part to
> > the first and most important Roman re-enactment and experimental
> > archaeology event in Italy, the "Mercato della Centuriazione" in
> > Villadose.
> [...]
>
> Wow! What an amazing event. I wish I could have been there.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28542 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Answer of the first question Ludi Romani
AVETE CIVES

Answer of the first question: which was the ancient name of Collis
Aventinus, in Rome, and what is the origin of this name?

Mons Murcus, from the nearest Vallis Murcia and Murcia, an ancient
name of Fortuna Virilis and Venere. We do not exactly know the
origin of the name Aventinus, even if there are some theories, like
the son of Hercules, or from the word "aves", of from a king of Alba
Longa.
Fonts: Coarelli, Archaeological guides; T Mommsen, History of
Ancient Rome.

Here follows the classification for the Ludi Romani cultural
contest, uptodated to the I answer.
I remember you that anytime you want to join our cultural contest,
you can do it!

2 pts.:
Dom Constantinus Fuscus
P Constantinus Vetranio

1 pt.:
H. Rutilius Bardulus
Q Salix Cantaber
Gn Equitius Marinus
M Iulius Aurelianus

0 pts.:
A Minicius Iordannes Pompeianus

VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28543 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
avete Cantaber omnesque,

Pompeia is right...it's just a common mistake and this is only a
game :-)

So, come on, and enjoy the contest...you are still in!

And...your answer is not so exact, after all! So beware of get
Cantaber's clue for yourselves ;-)

valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS
Aedilis Curulis


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Salix Cantaber URANICUS"
<qsalixcant@y...> wrote:
> Avete
>
> If, I'm an idiot... but only for today (I think)
>
> Pardon pardon, pardon...
>
> Naturally, I retire of the competition of the photo quiz...
>
> Vale.
>
> Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus
>
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De: Marcus Iulius
> Para: NR main
> CC: NR Geographia
> Enviado: martes, 07 de septiembre de 2004 12:25
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] ludi Romani: photo quiz 2/10
>
>
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> 24 hrs are gone and it's time for the second picture! The link is
the same:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz
>
> IMPORTANT: even if you haven't sent an email yesterday, you can
send it today and still be in the game!!! There a lot of time to
climb the positions! :-)
>
> On the proposed page you will find a link with the answer to
yesterday's pic and a first top ranking list!
>
> Just write to m_iulius@y... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the
answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject.
Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)
>
> Even for this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are
partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.
>
> remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around
midday, the third picture!!!
>
> Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!
>
>
>
>
> M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
> -------------------------
> Aedilis Curulis
> Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
> Magister Academiae Italicae
> ---------------------------------------------
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
> http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
> http://italia.novaroma.org
> http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
> ---------------------------------------------
> AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28544 From: Daniel Dreesbach Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: Re: Change in Moderators
I look forward to performing my duties as scriba and moderator of the mailing list.

Gauis Geminius Germanus

Keith Sterne <ksterne@...> wrote:
Salvete All (I was using the term Moderati, but that seems to have been
co-opted ;-).

Gaius Geminius Germanus had offered some time ago to help me in my role as
Praetor. I have accepted his offer and he will serve as a scribe and
moderator on the ML.
I have been unable to contact Renata Corva Cantrix, and I do not feel
comfortable reappointing her as moderator until she has agreed to do so.
Therefore, I am removing her moderator status.
I will issue an edict regarding G. Gemini shorthy.
Valete,
Laenas
Praetor






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28545 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-07
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
Salvete Omnes,

When Nova Roma was founded, I had a grand vision for the rebirth of all
possible aspects of Roman Religion in the modern world. It was almost impossible
for such a vision NOT to be grand, for the ancient Roman world held the most
varied, tolerant, inclusive, syncretistic, and universal forms of religion
ever experienced in the world before or since.

At our Founding it seemed certain that the ancient cosmopolitan world view
of Roma Antiqua was perfect for a rebirth today. Think of it - an organized,
moral, and inclusive, and non dogmatic system that was and could be again
respectful to all deities, able to grow and change, able to understand other
systems, live along side them in peace, and even incorporate them without losing
its unique identity.

Surely such a religion could be shared peacefully by *everyone* that had
even a tangental interest in the ancient Gods, or even in ancient philosophies
or ancient Virtues. It would be the cement that would bind a new sovereign
community together. It would help bridge gaps of nationality and 'modern'
heritage, and create tolerance and understanding.

The Founding Document I created for such a vision was the Declaratio Religio
Romana, which can still be found at:
_http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html_
(http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html)

That document sought to clearly establish a carefully reconstructed calendar
of State rituals, to help rebuild a direct link between our modern sovereign
community and the ancient Roman State. Yet it also left specific provision
for other aspects of the ancient Roman religious world to exist publicly so
that our community could learn, grow, and create new bonds among ourselves and
with the Gods.

So far that has not happened. While official reconstructionism has certainly
grown, it has seemed to me that many other religious ideals that existed and
thrived in Roma antiqua have withered here. It is my personal feeling that
this lack of completeness has caused some serious rifts in our community,
namely a lack of common ground for building shared ideas, ideals, and beliefs.

As Pontifex Maximus, there is little I can do about that. The Collegium
Pontificum is responsible solely for the State Cults, and the rebuilding of the
official rites that were part of the official infrastructure of the Roman
State. However, it has occurred to me that I am also a simple Roman Citizen, and
that I may act in that capacity to build outside the "official infrastructure"
of Nova Roma, to help provide variety of experience to the Roman community
at large.

I have therefore created a new and completely *unofficial* Religio Romana
list; "Nova Religio Romana", at:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaReligioRomana/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaReligioRomana/)

This independent Religio Romana list has been set up for the discussion of
topics which are not currently accepted within the official sphere of Nova
Roma.

Topics here include aspects of the Religio from times later than the Middle
Republic, personal material from Citizens (what we as modern people may think
and feel about the Gods in our lives), Rites that are semi or even non
reconstructionist, Mystery Religions, Imperial Cults, the 'syncretistic' blending
of the Religio in the Provinces, and more.

It may be thought of, perhaps, as a "Religio Back Alley List." Well, with
one huge difference: this list is a "safe" list as free as possible from
infighting and argument.

The idea here is for people to be able to discuss all aspects of Roman
Religion, both ancient and modern, freely and without judgment. Members posting
personal attacks or starting arguments can and will be moderated to standards of
common courtesy rather than exact limits of Nova Roman law. (Hopefully,
however, such things will be very minimal, since there is no "official" standard
of reconstructionism here.)

It is my great hope that members of this list will be able to experience the
Religio Romana as a living, vibrant religion for today. Our thoughts,
inspirations, ideas and creativity are important and are a vital part of a true
religion.

May the Gods of Rome be worshipped again in Nova Roma as OUR Gods, as well
as "traditional" Gods.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae
Roman Citizen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28546 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Fw: SPQR Ring
Salve Romans

FYI about he ring orders

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
----- Original Message -----
From: MIKE CARROLL
To: Stephen Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: SPQR Ring


Tim, FYI.. I just completed the SPQR rings for the
orders you sent and am planning to send the rings out
tomorrow via priority insured mail. All came out well. Mike

=====
Mike Carroll
United States Eagle Rings
http://www.eaglerings.com
or - http://www.carrollcollection.com
16144 Port Clinton Rd.
Prairie View, IL 60069
847-821-1333
mike@...



_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28547 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
G. Equitius Cati P.M. M. Cassio Iuliano S.P.D.

Salve, Pontifex Maximus.

Cassius Iulianus, I wanted to say two things. Well, say one and ask
another.

The first is that I hold you in the highest esteem, knowing that you
occupy a difficult and frustrating place in Nova Roma. You should
know that there is a large...VERY large, contingent of Nova Romans
who feel the way I do, and anything we can do to support you, we
will.

Which leads to the second, a question. I am an Orthodox Christian.
I cannot be anything else. But I want to show support for you and
for a via moderatorum within Nova Roma. How do you think I am able
to do this? What can I do, and by extension, other Christians in NR
do? With the state the CP is in, it would be easier for a rich man
to pass through the eye of the needle than for a Christian to exert
any influence there.

I do intend to run for public office when I can (this year). I can,
without any personal fear of offending Almighty God, take a public
oath of office. There are other Christians who cannot, and that is
between them and their faith. I have joined your new RR List, but am
not sure what use I can be there, not being a practitioner.

Please let me know what we can do.

Vale bene, illustris.

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28548 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio Romana List
O.S.D. G. Equitius CatO

Salvete, omnes.

I just realized I spelled my own name wrong. That's what happens
when you type too fast (with one finger, by the way). Who put
the "i" so close to the "o" anyways?

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> G. Equitius Cati P.M. M. Cassio Iuliano S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Pontifex Maximus.
>
> Cassius Iulianus, I wanted to say two things. Well, say one and
ask
> another.
>
> The first is that I hold you in the highest esteem, knowing that
you
> occupy a difficult and frustrating place in Nova Roma. You should
> know that there is a large...VERY large, contingent of Nova Romans
> who feel the way I do, and anything we can do to support you, we
> will.
>
> Which leads to the second, a question. I am an Orthodox
Christian.
> I cannot be anything else. But I want to show support for you and
> for a via moderatorum within Nova Roma. How do you think I am
able
> to do this? What can I do, and by extension, other Christians in
NR
> do? With the state the CP is in, it would be easier for a rich
man
> to pass through the eye of the needle than for a Christian to
exert
> any influence there.
>
> I do intend to run for public office when I can (this year). I
can,
> without any personal fear of offending Almighty God, take a public
> oath of office. There are other Christians who cannot, and that
is
> between them and their faith. I have joined your new RR List, but
am
> not sure what use I can be there, not being a practitioner.
>
> Please let me know what we can do.
>
> Vale bene, illustris.
>
> Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28549 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - New Religio List
G. Equitius Cato writes:

Which leads to the second, a question. I am an Orthodox Christian.
I cannot be anything else.

Cassius:
Actually, I have always thought it possible to be "involved" in many aspects
of Roman culture besides those of politics, etc. without breaking one's
Christian faith. Roman Virtues, for instance, are something that can be shared by
all Citizens, as can Roman Philosophy. The big thing is that while Religions
may be separate, "Romanitas" can still be a great unifier in our community,
helping us to work with instead of against one another.

Cato:
But I want to show support for you and
for a via moderatorum within Nova Roma. How do you think I am able
to do this? What can I do, and by extension, other Christians in NR
do?

Cassius:
Firstly, by participating in all things that you *can* comfortably share.
We're all here to learn, stay active, and enjoy our NR involvement. Secondly,
by supporting anything positive and unifying that may happen. In the last
couple of years there seem to have been a lot of divisive things going on within
our community. NR wasn't intended to be that way, at least by me.

Cato:
I do intend to run for public office when I can (this year). I can,
without any personal fear of offending Almighty God, take a public
oath of office. There are other Christians who cannot, and that is
between them and their faith.

Cassius:
As it should be. The Oath is not intended to bar anyone from taking
political office. It was instead intended to help deter folks that cannot abide being
around any religious ideas other than their own. Sometimes I wish that oath
could work *both* ways if you know what I mean, but as it stands it still has
helped our political offices to be held mostly by those who can stand to
work alongside those of other faiths.

Cato:
I have joined your new RR List, but am
not sure what use I can be there, not being a practitioner.

Cassius:
Well, you can learn, for one thing! Topics there should be interesting
enough, and there should indeed be some discussions you can join in on. Much of
Roman mythology, philosophy and literature carried into later eras, and still
form a foundation which we all share. Other topics, directly relating to
religious practice, might be of less interest to you, but that sort of thing
happens to most of us on all lists.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28550 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Ludi Romani: photo 3/10
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

24 hrs are gone and it's time for the third picture! The link is the same:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/photo_quiz

IMPORTANT: even if you haven't sent an email yesterday, you can send it today and still be in the game!!! There a lot of time to climb the positions! :-)

On the proposed page you will find a link with the answer to yesterday's pic and a first top ranking list!

Just write to m_iulius@... (m_iulius at yahoo dot it) the answer: subject matter of the photo, and the location of the subject. Also add your Nova Roman name ;-)

Even for this picture you will be awarded 1 point if you are partly correct, and 2 if you are completely correct.

remember: you have 24 hrs to send your answer! Tomorrow, around midday, the fourth picture!!!

Bona Fortuna, and Enjoy the Ludi!!!






M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
-------------------------
Aedilis Curulis
Vicarius Propraetoris Provinciae Italiae
Magister Academiae Italicae
---------------------------------------------
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/signaromanorum
---------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM

---------------------------------
Scopri Mister Yahoo! - il fantatorneo sul calcio di Yahoo! Sport'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28551 From: Augustine I Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Palladius:
Political authority on the other side of the continent? That would
be referential to what? Perhaps, let us venture... where I own land?
Last time I checked the US Senate follows a similar policy, and
consequently Hillary Clinton is currently a senator in New York,
which, on a related subject, is on the other side of the continent
from Arkansas.

This being said... what is the point you are trying to make? I
think, perhaps, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, you missed
the portion of my post concerning land I currently own *being ceded*
to Nova Roma? It is a great talent to be able to process bits of
information, though I would think it's an even greater talent to be
able to process and creatively stir a mixture of miniciae and find
yourself understanding the proposal I've suggested, if, on the other
hand, you'd prefer to proverbially, "shit on" everything I propose,
then I suppose I'll dash this alphabet soup I've served you with a few
grains of salt.

Though we are Nova Romans, agism loses it's trendiness and
applicability in a ratio-based fashion. An elder man toying with the
mind of a young boy is all in good fun, however, an elder man
dishonoring a younger man who is nonetheless his peer, this fringes on
breaches in ettiquette, if not old-fashioned rudeness. I'm going to
expect more cordial responses from you in the future, albeit whilst
biting my tongue.

I hadn't been aware of your continuing residence within VT, as I'd
been misinformed by the provincial government in the past, being told,
if memory serves, that you'd relocated to NH. I do believe you may
have misinterpreted my regard of you, thereby giving you
acknowledgeable though small grounds to take an even more puerile tone
against me than the one I'd been maligned heavily for initially
having. I hope, despite all of this, to successfully convince you to
calmly take a breath of air and resign from flexing those histrionic
muscles in the future.

-T. Ambrosius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28552 From: Marcus Cassius Petreius Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Bona fide
I'm pleased to report that I have been informed I am now a Citizen of
Nova Roma. I look forward to increasing my participation and helping
to build this nation.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28553 From: Decimus Iunius Silanus Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Calling all armchair generals!!
Salvete,

A gigantic yet fantastic free download at this link:

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/140000/144640.shtml

allows you to take control of the Carthaginian army at
the Battle of Trebia. Well worth a look!!

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 28554 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2004-09-08
Subject: Re: Calling all armchair generals!!
io barbaros!
--- iuniussilanus@...
<iuniussilanus@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> A gigantic yet fantastic free download at this link:
>
> http://www.fileplanet.com/files/140000/144640.shtml
>
> allows you to take control of the Carthaginian army
at
> the Battle of Trebia. Well worth a look!!
>
> Valete
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail