Salve Cato

I think as we are all still researching the sources it really
wouldn't serve any purpose to sully a perfectly fine historical
thread with a side-line political thread :)

Vale
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Caesar.
>
> I was not "straying" anywhere, Iulius Caesar --- I was walking
> firmly and with utter purpose into "Nova Roman politics", because
> that is the *point* of this discussion.
>
> So, do you feel that the CP should continue to utilize the
> unhistoric powers it has been granted, or that the CP should
> voluntarily relinquish them with the aim, and in the interest, of
> creating a more strictly reconstructionist College?
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>

A. Apollonius Cordus Cn. Júlió Caesarí omnibusque sal.

> I think as we are all still researching the sources
> it really
> wouldn't serve any purpose to sully a perfectly fine
> historical
> thread with a side-line political thread :)

With regard to female pontificés and the election of
pontificés there may indeed be more research to be
done, but no one needs to do any more research to
discuss the point which Cató is raising here, which is
the historical powers of the collégium. The matter is
extremely clear: the collégium had no legislative or
judicial power, and no historian IÂ’ve ever read claims
that it had. Is this not a reasonable subject for discussion?





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Salve Corde.

I doubt that a discussion is what Cato has in mind. A party
political broadcast for the "Moderati Party" is what would result;
something I am not prepared to participate in. Cato doesn't need me
to say his bit. He can go ahead without me :)

In any case I will be out for the remainder of the morning.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius Cordus Cn. Júlió Caesarí omnibusque sal.
>
> > I think as we are all still researching the sources
> > it really
> > wouldn't serve any purpose to sully a perfectly fine
> > historical
> > thread with a side-line political thread :)
>
> With regard to female pontificés and the election of
> pontificés there may indeed be more research to be
> done, but no one needs to do any more research to
> discuss the point which Cató is raising here, which is
> the historical powers of the collégium. The matter is
> extremely clear: the collégium had no legislative or
> judicial power, and no historian I've ever read claims
> that it had. Is this not a reasonable subject for discussion?
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW

Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

In a message dated 9/24/04 9:58:10 AM, rory12001@... writes:

<< let all true lovers of Roma Antiqua read Livy X.6.1-9.2 for the

discussion of the struggle between the patricians's monopoly of

religious knowledge and access to the divine and the plebs.

trust you to come up with this one.
this to me proves that you are not tightly wrapped.
only you could come up with a class struggle between pops and opts.

this would be well and good if we were all romans. oh yeah,
we aren't.

this struggle as you put it comes down to one thing peoples' beliefs
and their inability to accept what they see is control over their beliefs.

since in real rome EVERYBODY believed, isn't your point rather moot.

when i first came here i fell into the same trap, reading too much momesen,
and yes i saw a potential class struggle, but between the haves (the senate)
and the non senators the (people). the religio never entered into it.

now thats changed. so since the people cannot dominate the religio, shades
of 21st cent thinking, they now think they have too.


Our struggle right now is the classic one between "'optimates and

populares ... religious debate too seems to have become increasingly

concerned with issues of control between aristocracy and people: with

attcks on the stranglehold of the optimates over priestly office-

holding and with attempts to locate religious (along with political)

authority more firmly in the hands of the people as a whole."

Beard & North "Religions of Rome" p.135
\
gee you can read beard and north. i read them too. so? does
this makes you an expert on the religio? it takes a lot more
reading then just mary beard who is not totally objective to get
to the crux of the matter.

you are just pissed off because the cp fired you. hey i have studied
shintoism and buddaism and taoism. i never used them as part of my religio. i have
never publically questioned the cp either. i have never let my personal
beliefs color my public ones.

you did, and you are proud of it! is it any wonder you were fired?


The historian Sallust saw this conflict exactly in the above terms

See Sallust, Jugurthine War 31.10

and so does bunt, parrotting Sallust.

but non of this has anything to do with the current topic.

which is: you were fired and you are unhappy you were.
so you have decided that the cp traditional approach was not
for you. what a surprise....

q. fabius maximus

In a message dated 9/24/04 11:25:48 AM, gawne@... writes:

<< If we were discussing differences in the interpretation of Type Ia
supernovae, some people might read what Saul Perlmuter has to say and
others what David Branch has written.

i always thought that perlmuter made more sense but thats my opinion...
q fabius maximus

In a message dated 9/24/04 5:31:19 PM, quintus_cassius@... writes:

<< Don't assume an individual who has all the credentials in the world is
incapable of doing flawed research.

Vale, Quintus Cassius Brutus

>>

or have a personal agenda...
q fabius maximus

In a message dated 9/24/04 5:33:22 PM, mlcinnyc@... writes:

<< the powers our College of Pontiffs currently exercize are

unhistorical. Just because our College of Pontiffs cannot expect to

be obeyed "automatically" does not give them the right to assume

powers which were never theirs for the taking and still claim any

kind of historical foundation; our citizenry is not as malleable as

that of ancient Rome, and that is a fact that the CP must learn to

deal with.


So you are left either defending the unhistorical assumption of the

powers that the CP has been given, or you can make your claims for a

truly "historical" res publica more real by urging the College to

renounce those powers and assume its proper place within Republican

Roman society. This is NOT an attack on the CP in and of itself; it

was given unhistorical powers by the Founders of the Republic, and it

is not the fault of those currently in it that this is so. However,

those in the CP who declare their unswerving devotion to "strict

reconstruction" should then voluntarily relinquish those unhistoric

powers in the interest of creating a more historic res publica.


Valete,


Cato





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"

<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

> Salve Cato.

>

> I never advanced the suggestion that they were mediators. That must

> be your point, not mine.

>

> As for their being un-political, if you re-read the review what he

> actually says in essence is that there was no need for priests to

be

> political, since the "political" machinery of the state acted upon

> their "advice" accordingly. If the climate of the time was that the

> Collegium of antiquity could automatically rely on its advice being

> followed, then correspondingly there was no need for it to

> become "political".

>

> The most important lesson to draw from that comment is that in Rome

> of Antiquity the Collegium didn't have to constantly face an

> unoffical inquistitorial panel pouring over its every move and

> questioning its motives. Roman magistrates of the day and the

senate

> accepted their advice at face value, and translated that if

required

> into force of law. The Collegium in Nova Roma is of course not so

> fortunate.

>

> Vale

> Caesar

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"

> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> > O.S.D. G. Equitius Cato.

> >

> > Salvete, omnes.

> >

> > Actually, Iulius Caesar, I was pointing out that even the

> professor

> > whose review you admired recognized that the roman priesthoods

did

> > not act as mediators, nor did the Republican priesthoods have

> > decision-making powers. Your own authority supports a return to

> an

> > un-political religious authority, as Apollonius Cordus has

pointed

> > out in some detail, if the res publica is going to try to be

truly

> > historical in that respect.

> >

> > Vale et valete,

> >

> > Cato

> >

> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"

> > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

> > > Salvete omnes.

> > >

> > > Of course Cato has employed his famous scissors and snipped the

> > > other sentances that followed these partial quotes:

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>>

>
> trust you to come up with this one.
> this to me proves that you are not tightly wrapped.
>

Avete;
I will ignore the above insult from our Boni pontiff. Instead I
will ask you directly since you are a professional historian,

1. why have you belonged and take pride in belonging to an
association that would have been looked on with disgust by Cato
Uticensis?

2. Why is the Collegium Pontificium entirely unhistorical?

a) since you are not ignorant; then it must be on purpose.


3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever again I will sue you
under the Lex Salicia and most probably macronationally,

as an attorney it costs me nothing to pursue this.

valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

In a message dated 9/24/04 5:33:22 PM, mlcinnyc@... writes:

<< The fact is, Caesar, that whether or not there was a perceived "need"

or not in ancient Rome, the priests did not have the power to make

decisions; the powers our College of Pontiffs currently exercize are

unhistorical. Just because our College of Pontiffs cannot expect to

be obeyed "automatically" does not give them the right to assume

powers which were never theirs for the taking and still claim any

kind of historical foundation; our citizenry is not as malleable as

that of ancient Rome, and that is a fact that the CP must learn to

deal with.

i must have missed something here. what power does the cp have other then
that to do with the public worship?

and the reason that the populace isn't superstious and mallable was the
reason for
added a historical powers. basically vedius forsaw people like you, and
wanted to keep your damage to a minimum.

if we had no power, the fact that we have only 4 senators as pontifices has
helped, we would have no traditional religio, instead we'd have some frothy
blend od paganism that really doesn't have a thing to do with the religio.

q. fabius maximus




So you are left either defending the unhistorical assumption of the

powers that the CP has been given, or you can make your claims for a

truly "historical" res publica more real by urging the College to

renounce those powers and assume its proper place within Republican

Roman society. This is NOT an attack on the CP in and of itself; it

was given unhistorical powers by the Founders of the Republic, and it

is not the fault of those currently in it that this is so. However,

those in the CP who declare their unswerving devotion to "strict

reconstruction" should then voluntarily relinquish those unhistoric

powers in the interest of creating a more historic res publica.


Valete,


Cato





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"

<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

> Salve Cato.

>

> I never advanced the suggestion that they were mediators. That must

> be your point, not mine.

>

> As for their being un-political, if you re-read the review what he

> actually says in essence is that there was no need for priests to

be

> political, since the "political" machinery of the state acted upon

> their "advice" accordingly. If the climate of the time was that the

> Collegium of antiquity could automatically rely on its advice being

> followed, then correspondingly there was no need for it to

> become "political".

>

> The most important lesson to draw from that comment is that in Rome

> of Antiquity the Collegium didn't have to constantly face an

> unoffical inquistitorial panel pouring over its every move and

> questioning its motives. Roman magistrates of the day and the

senate

> accepted their advice at face value, and translated that if

required

> into force of law. The Collegium in Nova Roma is of course not so

> fortunate.

>

> Vale

> Caesar

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"

> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> > O.S.D. G. Equitius Cato.

> >

> > Salvete, omnes.

> >

> > Actually, Iulius Caesar, I was pointing out that even the

> professor

> > whose review you admired recognized that the roman priesthoods

di >>

In a message dated 9/25/04 11:06:52 AM, rory12001@... writes:

<< 1. why have you belonged and take pride in belonging to an

association that would have been looked on with disgust by Cato

Uticensis?

A steering committee trying to keep rome on the course as it was first
explained to
me when i joined?
how is this illegal?


2. Why is the Collegium Pontificium entirely unhistorical?

only parts are. it would appear that when the founders set up nova roma,
they had
some concern that people would not be interested in the religio. when vedius
rewrote the second he increased those powers.

why? well today is a pretty good example. cato the xtian keeps saying
one thing and then turns around and says something else. and he is right isn't
he? the populace
is no longer mallable, which is a bad word, i'd say downright hostile. it
was not this way three years ago when I first joined the college.




3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever again I will sue you

under the Lex Salicia and most probably macronationally,



as an attorney it costs me nothing to pursue this.

counselor
when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly wrapped! i have been accused of
the
exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked at a roman conference.
speaking of conferences i have never seen such a back biting lot as those
profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and academia makes that look tame...

but you have to admit your point was pretty specious.
war between the pops and the opts, come on!
i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across as sour grapes.
it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or else...revolution!

how would you respond to pressure like that?

q.fabius maximus

ps does irish courts have a filing fee?






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------- >>

Ah,

I realize that Maior is clever and all but if she or any other lawyer
in NR wish to take legal action here, they best get a lawyer and pay
up too. A while back I was in a court room in Canada where a lawyer
was defending himself. The judge roared at him in disgust saying any
lawyer who defends himself has a bloody fool for a client. This was a
traffic issue so am angered judge went on to say your a fine sample
to those other violators so he got a much higher fine than the rest
of us!

Regards,

QLP

>
> 3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever again I will sue

you

>
> under the Lex Salicia and most probably macronationally,
>
>
>
> as an attorney it costs me nothing to pursue this.
>
> counselor
> when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly wrapped! i have been

accused of

> the
> exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked at a roman

conference.

> speaking of conferences i have never seen such a back biting lot as

those

> profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and academia makes that

look tame...

>
> but you have to admit your point was pretty specious.
> war between the pops and the opts, come on!
> i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across as sour grapes.
> it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or else...revolution!
>
> how would you respond to pressure like that?
>
> q.fabius maximus
>
> ps does irish courts have a filing fee?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------

~-->

>
> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
>
> <A

HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWQplB/TM">Click
Here!

> </A>
>
> ------- >>

Salvete Fabius Maximus Pontifex et Senator, et Omnes:

Proof Positive: No list moderator should publically announce his
absence of the ML without citing how is going to be taking his
place..that is 'who' with imperium is going to take his place.
Fortunately there are 'two' Praetores and the Consuls.

I have no authority beyond being a citizen, but I have some rights
to express opinions; there is no need for potentially actionable
statements of calumnious natures, inciting inuria and baseless
accusations of hostility of the populace, and inciting of
revolutions. This has occurred within a span of less than half an
hour.

Everyone has atleast one common agenda with respect to discussing
history...to make their point, because this is what they interpreted
from they have read, and they would like to lend their learning. I
fail to see where this within itself, minus ad hominem attacks, etc.
is not a positive thing.

I can understand religious/historical discussions getting heated,
but a differing opinion does not infer insanity, and because person
A has been called 'nuts' in some time and place in the past, doesn't
justify Person A calling Person B mentally unglued in so many words.

When you take, Senator, such caustic issue with those who are
academically opposed to you, I think it is natural tendency for
people to begin to question the bottom line'why' and wonder if
there is perhaps an underlying reason why certain 'powers' are being
claimed by a few as dogmatically historical, as in the case of the
CP, when there is atleast some entertainable evidence, portions of
which are backed by historical legislation, that said authorities
were not quite as hierarchial as yourself and others have suggested
in the past. This is not a hostile populace, a prejudice populace, a
populace trying to undermine the Religio. It is an educated,
critically thinking, and interested populace. As Equitius Cato (?)
said yesterday, the populace is not like the Plebs of old...is more
educated and less malleable.

Valete,
Pompeia

i am a highway patrolman and i am in court every
monday. i love going up against attorneys. they throw
the title in our face as soon as they are pulled over.
--- mjk@... <mjk@...> wrote:

> Ah,
>
> I realize that Maior is clever and all but if she or

any other lawyer

> in NR wish to take legal action here, they best get

a lawyer and pay

> up too. A while back I was in a court room in Canada

where a lawyer

> was defending himself. The judge roared at him in

disgust saying any

> lawyer who defends himself has a bloody fool for a

client. This was a

> traffic issue so am angered judge went on to say

your a fine sample

> to those other violators so he got a much higher

fine than the rest

> of us!
>
> Regards,
>
> QLP
> >
> > 3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever

again I will sue

> you
> >
> > under the Lex Salicia and most probably

macronationally,

> >
> >
> >
> > as an attorney it costs me nothing to

pursue this.

> >
> > counselor
> > when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly

wrapped! i have been

> accused of
> > the
> > exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked

at a roman

> conference.
> > speaking of conferences i have never seen such a

back biting lot as

> those
> > profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and

academia makes that

> look tame...
> >
> > but you have to admit your point was pretty

specious.

> > war between the pops and the opts, come on!
> > i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across

as sour grapes.

> > it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or

else...revolution!

> >
> > how would you respond to pressure like that?
> >
> > q.fabius maximus
> >
> > ps does irish courts have a filing fee?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

--------------------

> ~-->
> >
> > $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
> >
> > <A
>

HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWQplB/TM">Click

> Here!
> > </A>
> >
> > ------- >>
>

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





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Salve Praefecte,

Well I heard an American judge once say that it is like a neural
surgeon preforming brain surgery on himself.

I don't know about the US system but here, when you take some one to
court, the losing party has to pay all the court costs and legal
fees for both lawyers; a little bit of the Hamarubbi code still left
I suppose but it makes one think harder about frivalous types of
lawsuits.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> i am a highway patrolman and i am in court every
> monday. i love going up against attorneys. they throw
> the title in our face as soon as they are pulled over.
> --- mjk@d... <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Ah,
> >
> > I realize that Maior is clever and all but if she or
> any other lawyer
> > in NR wish to take legal action here, they best get
> a lawyer and pay
> > up too. A while back I was in a court room in Canada
> where a lawyer
> > was defending himself. The judge roared at him in
> disgust saying any
> > lawyer who defends himself has a bloody fool for a
> client. This was a
> > traffic issue so am angered judge went on to say
> your a fine sample
> > to those other violators so he got a much higher
> fine than the rest
> > of us!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > QLP
> > >
> > > 3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever
> again I will sue
> > you
> > >
> > > under the Lex Salicia and most probably
> macronationally,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > as an attorney it costs me nothing to
> pursue this.
> > >
> > > counselor
> > > when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly
> wrapped! i have been
> > accused of
> > > the
> > > exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked
> at a roman
> > conference.
> > > speaking of conferences i have never seen such a
> back biting lot as
> > those
> > > profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and
> academia makes that
> > look tame...
> > >
> > > but you have to admit your point was pretty
> specious.
> > > war between the pops and the opts, come on!
> > > i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across
> as sour grapes.
> > > it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or
> else...revolution!
> > >
> > > how would you respond to pressure like that?
> > >
> > > q.fabius maximus
> > >
> > > ps does irish courts have a filing fee?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------
> > ~-->
> > >
> > > $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
> > >
> > > <A
> >
>

HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWQplB/TM">Click

>
> > Here!
> > > </A>
> > >
> > > ------- >>
> >
>
>
> =====
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com

Salvete Quirites,

While we all have passionate opinions, I remind you all that accusations
of mental instability are actionable, both in Nova Roman law and in the
macronational courts. Please refrain from making such accusations unless
you are prepared to deal with the consequences.

Valete,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

---Salvete Q. Lanius Paulinus Propraetor Canada Occidentalis et
Marcus Fides (is that correct nomenclature?), Citizen et Highway
Patrolman NYPD:

These are very interesting legal stories, but what does this have to
do with today's incivility on this list to the extent where legal
action should have to be remotely entertainable? The fact that you
both seem to be confident that such suits are frivolous and perhaps
would not go far, does not mean that we should use this as a means
to justify a verbal free-for-all on our mainlist, where there are
persons examining the list and judging NR by our conduct here, and
there are impuberes to whom we own some semblence of a good example
on how good communication can be utilized to effectively convey
one's point.

I am not saying that I am above an angry outburst, as I am sure
several will be quick to remind you...but 'because it's unlikely I
can be sued' is not equitable with 'it is right and therefore I
can/should act as I please'. I do not see it as 'acting in the best
interests of the Roman people'...a line in the oath of office.
Correct me, but this is the impression that I'm getting from reading
your posts.

Let me add another little story to our anthology: Someone from the
province of Ontario Canada wrote entertainer Michael Jackson an
email threatening his life this summer. This author's computer was
seized and he is charged with 'uttering a death threat'...email or
no. This is not a frivolous civil suit, this is a criminal charge.
How far it will go is unknown. But uttering of a death threat, even
by comp, is still an act of criminality. Electronic communication
seems to be becoming less and less of a joke.

It is ok for you to advocate for the Senator/friend/political
compatriot...whatever the case may be if you wish, but not in a
fashion as you suggest above. If you were to say, "He was having a
bad day" or "He strongly feels the way he does and morphed into
overkill"...this would be understandable..."That we can't sue him
with any success, so get over it, folks" is not representative of
the type of attitude relishable from a Propraetor Nova Roma 'or' a
macronational law inforcement officer,.... is it?

PMTS






In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salve Praefecte,
>
> Well I heard an American judge once say that it is like a neural
> surgeon preforming brain surgery on himself.
>
> I don't know about the US system but here, when you take some one

to

> court, the losing party has to pay all the court costs and legal
> fees for both lawyers; a little bit of the Hamarubbi code still

left

> I suppose but it makes one think harder about frivalous types of
> lawsuits.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > i am a highway patrolman and i am in court every
> > monday. i love going up against attorneys. they throw
> > the title in our face as soon as they are pulled over.
> > --- mjk@d... <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > > Ah,
> > >
> > > I realize that Maior is clever and all but if she or
> > any other lawyer
> > > in NR wish to take legal action here, they best get
> > a lawyer and pay
> > > up too. A while back I was in a court room in Canada
> > where a lawyer
> > > was defending himself. The judge roared at him in
> > disgust saying any
> > > lawyer who defends himself has a bloody fool for a
> > client. This was a
> > > traffic issue so am angered judge went on to say
> > your a fine sample
> > > to those other violators so he got a much higher
> > fine than the rest
> > > of us!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > QLP
> > > >
> > > > 3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever
> > again I will sue
> > > you
> > > >
> > > > under the Lex Salicia and most probably
> > macronationally,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > as an attorney it costs me nothing to
> > pursue this.
> > > >
> > > > counselor
> > > > when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly
> > wrapped! i have been
> > > accused of
> > > > the
> > > > exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked
> > at a roman
> > > conference.
> > > > speaking of conferences i have never seen such a
> > back biting lot as
> > > those
> > > > profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and
> > academia makes that
> > > look tame...
> > > >
> > > > but you have to admit your point was pretty
> > specious.
> > > > war between the pops and the opts, come on!
> > > > i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across
> > as sour grapes.
> > > > it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or
> > else...revolution!
> > > >
> > > > how would you respond to pressure like that?
> > > >
> > > > q.fabius maximus
> > > >
> > > > ps does irish courts have a filing fee?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------
> > > ~-->
> > > >
> > > > $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
> > > >
> > > > <A
> > >
> >
>

HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWQplB/TM">Click

> >
> > > Here!
> > > > </A>
> > > >
> > > > ------- >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > http://vote.yahoo.com

i was referring to attys always identifying themselves
as such when things dont go thier way. much like
docters and rich folks. nothing to do w/ nr at all.ok
--- pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:

> ---Salvete Q. Lanius Paulinus Propraetor Canada

Occidentalis et

> Marcus Fides (is that correct nomenclature?),

Citizen et Highway

> Patrolman NYPD:
>
> These are very interesting legal stories, but what

does this have to

> do with today's incivility on this list to the

extent where legal

> action should have to be remotely entertainable?

The fact that you

> both seem to be confident that such suits are

frivolous and perhaps

> would not go far, does not mean that we should use

this as a means

> to justify a verbal free-for-all on our mainlist,

where there are

> persons examining the list and judging NR by our

conduct here, and

> there are impuberes to whom we own some semblence of

a good example

> on how good communication can be utilized to

effectively convey

> one's point.
>
> I am not saying that I am above an angry outburst,

as I am sure

> several will be quick to remind you...but 'because

it's unlikely I

> can be sued' is not equitable with 'it is right and

therefore I

> can/should act as I please'. I do not see it as

'acting in the best

> interests of the Roman people'...a line in the oath

of office.

> Correct me, but this is the impression that I'm

getting from reading

> your posts.
>
> Let me add another little story to our anthology:

Someone from the

> province of Ontario Canada wrote entertainer Michael

Jackson an

> email threatening his life this summer. This

author's computer was

> seized and he is charged with 'uttering a death

threat'...email or

> no. This is not a frivolous civil suit, this is a

criminal charge.

> How far it will go is unknown. But uttering of a

death threat, even

> by comp, is still an act of criminality. Electronic

communication

> seems to be becoming less and less of a joke.
>
> It is ok for you to advocate for the

Senator/friend/political

> compatriot...whatever the case may be if you wish,

but not in a

> fashion as you suggest above. If you were to say,

"He was having a

> bad day" or "He strongly feels the way he does and

morphed into

> overkill"...this would be understandable..."That we

can't sue him

> with any success, so get over it, folks" is not

representative of

> the type of attitude relishable from a Propraetor

Nova Roma 'or' a

> macronational law inforcement officer,.... is it?
>
> PMTS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius

Paulinus (Michael

> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salve Praefecte,
> >
> > Well I heard an American judge once say that it is

like a neural

> > surgeon preforming brain surgery on himself.
> >
> > I don't know about the US system but here, when

you take some one

> to
> > court, the losing party has to pay all the court

costs and legal

> > fees for both lawyers; a little bit of the

Hamarubbi code still

> left
> > I suppose but it makes one think harder about

frivalous types of

> > lawsuits.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > i am a highway patrolman and i am in court every
> > > monday. i love going up against attorneys. they

throw

> > > the title in our face as soon as they are pulled

over.

> > > --- mjk@d... <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > > > Ah,
> > > >
> > > > I realize that Maior is clever and all but if

she or

> > > any other lawyer
> > > > in NR wish to take legal action here, they

best get

> > > a lawyer and pay

=== Message Truncated ===


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
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Salve Pompeia,

Yes, there are limits to what one can do on the eletronic media. I
cannot lure 13 year old girls, threaten celebrities and others as
you indicate without some kind of reprocussion.

This was not my initial point however. My point is that any lawyer
who needs to bring on a lawsuit ought to get proper legal help when
his or her own head is on the block. As I indicate, how many
doctors, dentists etc. that you work with do surgery on themselves
or their own diagnosis without consulting others in their
professions? If we didn't have medicare would they do this? I doubt
it.

Now I'll continue on a little. I have an x-brother-in-law and a good
friend who are both lawyers. I showed, discussed and talked of
threats on the Nova Roma list and various situations with them. The
chances of a law firm hauling someone into court because I called
someone in Germany a horse's ass or a French NR citizen a lousy
lawyer or someone in the US is off his rocker would be very remote
to the point of laughter. When you deal with across border things,
international law, Napoleonic code etc. etc, you'd be dealing with
thousands of dollars. Furthermore someone in the list here in NR
saying Quintus is a lousy geologist, Marcus is senile, why Doctor
Sextus, if he's so great as he claims is a used car salesman etc. is
really not going to have a big effect on the scheme of things. If an
academic here like Scaurus said I don't know sheep manure from
cherry stones with regards to Rome, QFM says Quintus is off his
rocker, don't give him matches, I'll certainly not get a lay off
notice from the petroleum industry, a forclosure on my home,
cancellation of credit cards or AH of the month award in some girly
mag. My life and reputation will be intact in the microworld and
that is where heard the difficulties would be. The above thoughts
came from 2 other lawyers, not me.

Also I suppose a decent propraetor or highway patrol officer should
be able to also ascertain what is dead serious or what is frivlous
and a possible waste of time and effort.I have my ideas and opinions
on this, shall express them but I'll still listen or consider
others' thoughts on this matter.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:

> ---Salvete Q. Lanius Paulinus Propraetor Canada Occidentalis et
> Marcus Fides (is that correct nomenclature?), Citizen et Highway
> Patrolman NYPD:
>
> These are very interesting legal stories, but what does this have

to

> do with today's incivility on this list to the extent where legal
> action should have to be remotely entertainable? The fact that

you

> both seem to be confident that such suits are frivolous and

perhaps

> would not go far, does not mean that we should use this as a means
> to justify a verbal free-for-all on our mainlist, where there are
> persons examining the list and judging NR by our conduct here, and
> there are impuberes to whom we own some semblence of a good

example

> on how good communication can be utilized to effectively convey
> one's point.
>
> I am not saying that I am above an angry outburst, as I am sure
> several will be quick to remind you...but 'because it's unlikely

I

> can be sued' is not equitable with 'it is right and therefore I
> can/should act as I please'. I do not see it as 'acting in the

best

> interests of the Roman people'...a line in the oath of office.
> Correct me, but this is the impression that I'm getting from

reading

> your posts.
>
> Let me add another little story to our anthology: Someone from

the

> province of Ontario Canada wrote entertainer Michael Jackson an
> email threatening his life this summer. This author's computer

was

> seized and he is charged with 'uttering a death threat'...email or
> no. This is not a frivolous civil suit, this is a criminal

charge.

> How far it will go is unknown. But uttering of a death threat,

even

> by comp, is still an act of criminality. Electronic communication
> seems to be becoming less and less of a joke.
>
> It is ok for you to advocate for the Senator/friend/political
> compatriot...whatever the case may be if you wish, but not in a
> fashion as you suggest above. If you were to say, "He was having

a

> bad day" or "He strongly feels the way he does and morphed into
> overkill"...this would be understandable..."That we can't sue him
> with any success, so get over it, folks" is not representative of
> the type of attitude relishable from a Propraetor Nova Roma 'or'

a

> macronational law inforcement officer,.... is it?
>
> PMTS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > Salve Praefecte,
> >
> > Well I heard an American judge once say that it is like a neural
> > surgeon preforming brain surgery on himself.
> >
> > I don't know about the US system but here, when you take some

one

> to
> > court, the losing party has to pay all the court costs and legal
> > fees for both lawyers; a little bit of the Hamarubbi code still
> left
> > I suppose but it makes one think harder about frivalous types of
> > lawsuits.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > i am a highway patrolman and i am in court every
> > > monday. i love going up against attorneys. they throw
> > > the title in our face as soon as they are pulled over.
> > > --- mjk@d... <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > > > Ah,
> > > >
> > > > I realize that Maior is clever and all but if she or
> > > any other lawyer
> > > > in NR wish to take legal action here, they best get
> > > a lawyer and pay
> > > > up too. A while back I was in a court room in Canada
> > > where a lawyer
> > > > was defending himself. The judge roared at him in
> > > disgust saying any
> > > > lawyer who defends himself has a bloody fool for a
> > > client. This was a
> > > > traffic issue so am angered judge went on to say
> > > your a fine sample
> > > > to those other violators so he got a much higher
> > > fine than the rest
> > > > of us!
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > QLP
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Finally if you impugn my mental state ever
> > > again I will sue
> > > > you
> > > > >
> > > > > under the Lex Salicia and most probably
> > > macronationally,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > as an attorney it costs me nothing to
> > > pursue this.
> > > > >
> > > > > counselor
> > > > > when it comes to nr NONE of us are tightly
> > > wrapped! i have been
> > > > accused of
> > > > > the
> > > > > exactly the same thing. And Gryllius was mocked
> > > at a roman
> > > > conference.
> > > > > speaking of conferences i have never seen such a
> > > back biting lot as
> > > > those
> > > > > profs in the ivory tower. i was in radio and
> > > academia makes that
> > > > look tame...
> > > > >
> > > > > but you have to admit your point was pretty
> > > specious.
> > > > > war between the pops and the opts, come on!
> > > > > i'm sorry, but most of your comments come across
> > > as sour grapes.
> > > > > it is like you are saying to us, reinstate me or
> > > else...revolution!
> > > > >
> > > > > how would you respond to pressure like that?
> > > > >
> > > > > q.fabius maximus
> > > > >
> > > > > ps does irish courts have a filing fee?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------
> > > > ~-->
> > > > >
> > > > > $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > <A
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWQplB/TM">Click

> > >
> > > > Here!
> > > > > </A>
> > > > >
> > > > > ------- >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> > > http://vote.yahoo.com

Salvete! I hope all Iulii of the Gens Iulia will join
me tomorrow in honoring the Patroness of the Gens,
Venus Genetrix on Her festival with offerings of
incense and wine. Make this a special day for Venus
our Patroness and Mater! SALVE VENVS! Valete! Frater
GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Senior Paterfamilias Gentis Iuliae



__________________________________
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Salve Gaius Iulius Iulianus,

I wish you and all members of your great gens a great time of
reflection and celebration. A few members in our family have
birthdays tomorrow and the next day. That's a nice coinincidence!

Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete! I hope all Iulii of the Gens Iulia will join
> me tomorrow in honoring the Patroness of the Gens,
> Venus Genetrix on Her festival with offerings of
> incense and wine. Make this a special day for Venus
> our Patroness and Mater! SALVE VENVS! Valete! Frater
> GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Senior Paterfamilias Gentis Iuliae
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS QVIRITIBVS ET CONSVLI Gn. EQVITIO MARINO S.P.D.

AVETE ET SALVE MARINE,

Honourable Consul I commend your timely and judicious reminder. To my
brothers and sisters in the fellowship of the Roman Republic I say:

Fellow Romans, I earnestly implore you, let not our debates,
impassioned and sincere as they doubtless are, slide into insult and
rancour. By all means, let us have full-blooded and unfettered
debate, let us have argument and counter-argument but let us also do
so with Roman Virtues uppermost in our minds. Let not selfish pride,
self-serving motives, anger or jealousy rule our hearts or our posts.

I am not naive, I understand that political and religious debates, in
particular, but debates generally can become heated. I also
understand there can be personality clashes - that's life. But
should we all not try to avoid hurt, respect different opinions and
become a little less ready to decry someone's motives? It is only
human nature that when one perceives they are being attacked that
they defend themselves often payment in kind.

I single out no one, I take sides with no one, I do not wish to
lecture, condescend or patronise any CIVE but please let us all take
a little step back and re-examine how we conduct ourselves on this
list. As you all know, I have only recently returned to Rome, so you
might say I come to these debates with a fresh pair of eyes but when
I see the tone of some of the posts on this list I am at once shocked
and saddened. I can't help but wonder what onlookers, guests and new
CIVES make of it?

Please, fellow Romans, take this as a heartfelt plea not in any way
designed to ruffle anyone's feathers or cause offence. I belong to
no group, faction or other alignment. I speak freely and
independently as a Roman citizen. My only intent is to be
constructive and see Rome prosper.

VALETE

M. CALIDIVS M f. M n. M pr. VAL. GRACCHVS

TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
CIVIS NOVAE ROMAE

MORIBVS ANTIQVIS RES STAT ROMANA VIRISQVE

VERITAS LVX MEA

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bill Gawne <gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> While we all have passionate opinions, I remind you all that
accusations
> of mental instability are actionable, both in Nova Roman law and in
the
> macronational courts. Please refrain from making such accusations
unless
> you are prepared to deal with the consequences.
>
> Valete,
>
> --
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Titus Aurelius Ursus Omnibus SPD

Salvete, amici.

I came across this article from a friend of mine the other day, and
found it interesting to say the least.

http://www.stanford.edu/~nickpk/writings/Romansuicide.html

It's called Cato and His Heirs: Roman Ideals of Suicide.

I hope you'll all give it a read.

Valete bene optime,

Ursus.

it is i marcus flavivs fides {proper nomenclature}
headcount{before you point it out} have i wronged you?
why are your replies to my posts so not nice? really.

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
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A. Apollonius Cordus T. Aurelió Ursó omnibusque sal.

An interesting article - thank you.

I think it's important to emphasise that although
stoic thinking considers that a person who is a burden
to himself, to others, and to the community as a whole
(for instance as a result of debilitating illness) has
a duty to commit suicide, the stoics also believed
that a person who is a benefit to others and to the
community has a duty to keep himself alive for that
very reason - so even to the stoics, suicide is not
always a good thing.

I can't remember my source for this - it was an
article in JRS, possibly by Brunt; I'm sure it must
also be mentioned in Griffin's two articles cited at
the bottom of the link you provided, though I haven't
read them (Dr. Griffin isn't one to go out of her way
to include her own work on students' reading-lists).
If anyone desparately wants to find the JRS article, I
can dig out my notes - e-mail me privately.

(By the way, and if I may ask, are you ursus a male
bear, or úrsus a wild ox?)





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Avete;
We were having a thoughtful discussion with historical
references, the tone of the Main List has picked up wonderfully since
Modius started the Peace List.
I did not appreciate Maximus's remark on my mental competance, as
Propraetrix I try to recruit for NR and my friends come here,
additonally I am training for the ministry, how do you think that
looks?
Finally I remember during the last election for praetor, Diana
Aventina questioned Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo's mental
competance. I do not know if this is a Boni strategy, as their list
is kept secret, but I do know that is up to all of us to take back
the Main List.
I am all for a cordial tone, when I overstepped I apologized to
Gnaeus Caesar, there is no reason, except that there are those who
want to bully and stop reasoned discussion to bomb throw and I for
one will not be bullied.
optime valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

A Apollonio Cordo Omnibusque T Aurelius Ursus SPD

Salvete!

Apolloni Corde,

My cognomen is supposed to be 'Male Bear,' but sometimes I get a bit
stubborn like a 'Wild Ox' so I suppose it can serve a dual purpose :-P

Yours,

T. Aurelius 'Male Bear' Ursus

Salve Quinte Fabi Maxime,

I have recieved several email over the last day or so with your
name, an attachment and a file titled subject. My Norton detected a
virus in the file. Normal I ignore and delete but I sent you a note
the other day and don't know if you replied with that attachment
still haunting you. I don't know how one can get rid of this stuff
or if a prangster is using your address but I thought I'd better let
you know. Sometimes I wish we could have some Shiria law governing
hackers or malicious code writing people; off with their fingers!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salvete Quirites,

Several small edits in the Lex de Familia, and one in the Lex de
Iurisdictione. My thanks to the dilligent citizens who have been
reading these leges and providing their feedback.

-- Marinus

Valete,

Gn. Equitius Marinus

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Consul Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dicit

In accordance with our laws, augur Gaius Modius Athanasius has taken
an auspicium at my request, for the purpose of convening the Comitia.
The augury being favorable, I call the Comitia Populi Tributa for the
purpose of voting on the following laws.


LEX EQVITIA DE TIROCINIO CIVIVM NOVORVM

I. A. Vt pater aut materfamilias personam gentilem tollat et magistratus
proprios quibus praestat cives in album referre de hac approbatione
certiores faciat, civitas Novae Romae ilico coepit.

I. A. Nova Roman citizenship begins at the instant a pater or
materfamilias recognizes a person as a member of his or her Nova
Roman familia and informs the appropriate Nova Roman
magistrates in charge of citizen registration of this recognition.

B. Ad familias nuper creatas quarum patres vel matresfamiliarum
cives novi sunt, civitatem simul recipientes ac familias
constituentes
in album referentesque, censoribus probantibus civitas incipit.

B. In the case of newly-created familiae whose patres or
matresfamiliarum are new citizens receiving citizenship at the same
time as the familiae are being formed and registered, citizenship
begins with the approval of the Censors.

II. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, omnes cives novi Novae Romae
tirocinio ut minimum nonaginta dierum subicientur, per quod eis iura
publica non licebit; nec suffragium ferant, nec aliquem honorem
publicum
petant.

II. Beginning Kalendis Ianuarias, MMDCCLVIII, all new citizens of Nova
Roma shall be subject to a probationary period of at least 90 days,
during which they will not be allowed the 'iura publica', the right
to vote and to stand for any public office.

III. A. Post nonaginta dies, cum civis novus periculum probationis
simplicis de rebus magni momenti civitati Novae Romae,
rudimentisque historiae, religionis, linguae, consuetudinum
civiliumque Romanorum subeat et approbetur, tirocinium
conficiet.

III. A. The probationary period will end when 90 days have passed
and the
new citizen has taken and passed a simple examination covering
elementary matters of Nova Roman citizenship and basic Roman
history, religion, language, and social practices.

B. Petitore roganti, haec probatio in promptu erit versa in omnes
linguas quibus interpretes periti Novae Romae adsunt.

B. This examination shall be made available, upon request of the
applicant, in any of the languages for which Nova Roma has
qualified translators.

C. Probatio a censoribus vel magistratibus aliis designatis a
censoribus excoletur, et quotannis a Senatu recensebitur.

C. The examination will be developed by the Censors or such other
magistrates as the Censors may designate, and shall be
reviewed
annually by the Senate.

D. Exercitia a censoribus vel talibus aliis e lege praescriptis
notabitur.

D. The examination will be graded by the Censors or by such other
persons as may be directed by law.


IV. A. In rebus raris, haec necessaria omnino vel partim a Senatu
remittentur.

IV. A. These requirements may be wholly or partially waived by the
Senate in exceptional circumstances.

B. Nullo pacto circumscribantur; exempla immunitatum talium autem
includant:

B. Examples of such exceptions would include, but not be
limited to:

1. Petitores qui cives peregrini municipi vel oppidi sex
menses
fuerunt.

1. Applicants who have been peregrine citizens of a
municipium
or oppidum for 6 months.

2. Petitores qui cives peregrini municipi vel oppidi qui
duumviri, aediles, vel magistratus suffragiis creati
delecti
sunt.

2. Applicants who are peregrine citizens of municipia or
oppida
who have been elected to an elective office such as
duumvir
or aedilis.

3. Petitores a magistratu curuli provinciae praesidenteve
commendantur.

3. applicants sponsored by a curule magistrate, including
provincial governors.

4. Petitores qui potestates raras academicas professionisve
habent.

4. Applicants with exceptional academic and professional
qualifications.

V. A. Civibus impuberibus qui post Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII
participes Novae Romae erunt et qui nondum duodeviginti annos
nati sunt periculum probationis subeant usque ad nonaginta
dies
ante diem natale duodevicesimum suum licet.

V. A. Minor citizens who join Nova Roma after Kalendis Ianuarias,
MMDCCLVIII and who have not yet reached 18 years of age may
take
the examination up to 90 days before their 18th birthday.

B. Periculo probationis praemature subeundo et superando non liceat
suffragia ferant aut honores petant ante diem natalem suum
duodevicesimum.

B. Taking and passing the examination early will not entitle them to
vote or stand for office before their 18th birthday.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE TIROCINIO CIVIVM NOVORVM]

This next law corrects an overly punitive provision of an old law which
has recently proven damaging to the health of our Republic by needlessly
penalizing citizens who have contributed greatly to Nova Roma. I don't
yet have the Latin translation of this law available, but the English
text is provided for voter review.


LEX EQUITIA DE CIVITATE EIURANDA

I. The Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda is hereby amended as
follows:

A. Section III is hereby annulled.

B. Section V is hereby altered to read as follows:

1. The ex-citizen, in the event that he desires to reacquire
citizenship, must apply in the same fashion as any other person desirous
of citizenship would, with the exception that he/she is directed to
state in his/her application the reasons behind his/her resignation and
decision to reverse the resignation and come back. His/her Roman name
may be resumed if no other citizen of Nova Roma has taken it up in
his/her absence.

2. As offices are de facto resigned when Citizenship is
resigned, no public offices held at the time of resignation
automatically carry over to the returning citizen, with the exception of
any religious title and corresponding century points that may be
specified by the Collegium Pontificum.

3. Any titles, honors and effects of past offices, or century
points carry over to the returning citizen only after a period of six
months, with the exception of any religious title and corresponding
century points that may be specified by the Collegium Pontificum.

4. Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the
Censores collegially.

5. Gens affiliation in all instances remains at the
discretion of the pater or materfamilias.

C. Section VI is hereby altered to read as follows:

1. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and
resigns a second time, that ex-citizen is barred for two years from
reinstatement.

II. Any Citizen who has, in the past, fallen under the effect of the Lex
Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda, shall be treated as being under
the effect of these amendments.

III. The amended Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda shall be
held to apply to any individual who has resigned their Citizenship since
the founding of the Republic on March 1, 1998 CE, regardless of whether
or not it had or had not been passed prior to that time.

[End text of LEX EQUITIA DE CIVITATE EIURANDA]

The next law was already presented in contio, but due to an error
in the Cista the populous was not able to vote on it during the
last voting interval. Therefore I present it again. Please note
that it repeals three existing laws, replacing them all with this
one. Again, the Latin text is not yet available, but I provide
the English text for your review.


LEX EQVITIA DE VIGINTISEXVIRIS

Praeambulatio


Romae antiquae, vigintisexviri magistratus minores erant, qui negotia
translaticia rei publicae administrandae tractabant. Novae Romae nomen
VIGINTISEXVIRORVM magistratibus minoribus conservamus, nec vigintisex
postulantes, nec viris solis hos magistratus definientes.

Preamble

In Roma Antiqua, the Vigintisexviri--literally, 'the twenty-six
men'--were minor magistrates who handled much of the routine
administrative business of Rome. In Nova Roma, we preserve the title
VIGINTISEXVIRI for minor magistracies, without requiring twenty-six, and
without restricting these magistracies to men.

I. A. Ex hac, Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri, Lex Minucia de Rogatoribus, et
Lex Equitia de Mutandis Appellationibus Duorum Magistratuum Minorum
abrogantur.

I. A. The Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri, Lex Minucia de Rogatoribus, and Lex
Equitia de Mutandis Appellationibus Duorum Magistratuum Minorum are
hereby repealed.

B. Omnes leges, decreta, edictaque Novae Romae memorantes magistratus
vigintisexvirorum retractantur, ut inscriptionibus infra definitis utantur.

B. All Nova Roman laws, decrees, and edicts which make reference to
magistrates of the Vigintisexviri are revised to use the titles defined
below.

II. E Constitutione Novae Romae, magistratus minores in numero
vigintisexvirorum definiuntur:

II. In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, the following
minor magistracies are defined within the category of Vigintisexviri:

A. Magister aranearius. Magister situs interretialis.

A. Webmaster.

1. Magister aranearius descriptioni, tuitioni, mutationique
alicui situum interretialium publicorum Re Publica editorum praestabit.

1. The magister aranearius shall be responsible for the
design, maintenance, and any alteration of the official web site(s)
sponsored by the State.

2. Magister aranearius scientiam ab aliis magistratibus
institutisque Novae Romae ambiet de rebus quae in sitibus
interretialibus insunt.

2. The magister aranearius shall solicit input from the other
magistrates and institutions of Nova Roma regarding content for the web
site.

3. Licebit magistro araneario scribas suos creare, si necesse
habet.

3. The magister aranearius shall have the authority to
appoint his own scribae, should he deem it necessary.

B. Editor Commentariorum--Editor Novorum Scriptorum.

B. Editor of Written News.


1. Editor commentariorum producendis, foras efferendis,
distribuendisque editionum publicarum editarum Re Publica praestabit.

1. The editor commentariorum shall be responsible for the
production, publication, and distribution of the official publications
sponsored by the State.

2. Editori commentariorum licebit scribas suos creare, si
necesse habet.

2. The editor commentariorum shall have the authority to
appoint his own scribae, should he deem it necessary.

C. Rogatores. Magistratus ad consignandos suffragium ferentes.

1. a. Vsque ad Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII, quattuor rogatores
curae electionibus et in curiis suffragiis in tabulas referendis
praestabunt.

1. a. Until the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January 2005),
four rogatores shall be responsible for the administration of elections
and the recording of votes among the curiae.

b. Licebit rogatori cuique scribas suos creare, si necesse
habet.

b. Each rogator shall have the authority to appoint his own
scribae, should he deem it necessary.

c. Inopia sui numeri ipsa vel societatis gnavae quattuor
rogatorum electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

c. The lack of a full complement of, or the active
participation of, four rogatores shall not in and of itself be
sufficient to invalidate or postpone a particular election.

d. Rogatores munera su inter se ratione eis idonea et usui
describant.

d. The rogatores may divide their duties amongst themselves
as they see fit and practical.

e. Cum e definitione rogatores singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere rogatorum manent, non licebit rogatoribus
munera aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

e. Since the rogatores are by definition privy to the
details of the election process, they may not run for any elective
office while they serve in office as rogatores.

2. a. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, duo rogatores ministri
censoribus creabuntur, praestantes eis qui ius suffragi ferendi habent
consignandis, leges eis suffragium ferentibus proponentibus, et
rationibus petitionum translaticiarum civitati administrandis.

2. a. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January
2005), two rogatores shall be elected to act as subordinate magistrates
to the censores, responsible for registering qualified voters, issuing
voter codes, and administering the routine citizenship application process.

2. b. Per intervalla temporis in quibus nulli censores officio
praestant, rogatores conservationem translaticiam Albi Civium Albi
Gentiumque cum magistro araneario exsequantur.

b. During intervals when no censors are serving in office, the
rogatores may carry out the routine maintenance of the Album Civium and
the Album Gentium in concert with the magister aranearius.

c. Licebit rogatori cuique scribas suos creet, si necesse habet.

c. Each rogator shall have the authority to appoint his own
scribae, should he deem it necessary.

C. Diribitores--Suffragiorum computatores.

1. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, usque ad quattuor diribitores
suffragiis in curiis enumerandis praestabunt.

1. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January
2005), up to four diribitores shall be responsible for the counting of
votes among the curiae.

2. Inopia sui numeri ipsa vel societatis gnavae quattuor
diribitorum electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

2. The lack of a full complement of, or the active participation
of, four diribitores shall not in and of itself be sufficient to
invalidate or postpone a particular election.

3. Custodibus approbantibus, diribitores munera sua inter se modo
eis idoneo et usui describant.

3. The diribitores may divide their duties among themselves as they
see fit and practical with the approval of the custodes.

4. Cum e definitione diribitores singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere diribitorum manent eis non licebit munera
aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

4. Since the diribitores are by definition privy to the details of
the election process, they may not run for any elective office while
they serve in office as diribitores.

5. Diribitores modo suffragia enumerabunt, nec suffragia paria
constituant.

5. Diribitores shall only count votes, and shall not engage in any
tie-breaking.

E. Custodes. Iudices Electionum.

1. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, duo custodes recognoscendis
tesseris suffragiorum in electionibus eis a diribitoribus relatis
praestabunt, suffragia paria in centuriis tribusque statuentes, et
exitus electionum centuriis tribusve magistratibus electionibus
praesidentibus praebentes.

1. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January 2005),
two custodes shall be responsible for certifying the tally of votes in
elections as reported to them by the diribitores, breaking any ties
among the centuries and tribes, and providing the results of elections
to the magistrates presiding over the elections.

2. Cum e definitione custodes singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere custodum manent, eis non licebit munera
aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

2. Since by definition the custodes are privy to the details of the
election process, they may not run for any elective office while they
serve in office as custodes.

3. Inopia ipsa sui numeri vel societatis gnavae amborum custodum
electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

3. The lack of a full complement of, or the active participation
of, both custodes shall not in and of itself be sufficient to invalidate
or postpone a particular election.

4. Si eis placeat, custodes suffragiis enumerandis diribitores
adiuvent.

4. Custodes may, if they choose, assist the diribitores in the
vote-counting process.

5. Si nulli diribitores sint, custodes munera diribitorum
suscipiant dum satis diribitorum creati sunt.

5. In the event that there are no diribitores, the custodes
shall assume the duties of diribitores until sufficient diribitores have
been elected.

III. Magistratus minores, omnes vigintisexviri Ius Edicendi habebunt,
ius edictorum edendorum in finibus munerum suorum.

III. As minor magistrates, all vigintisexviri shall possess the Ius
Edicendi, the right to publish edicta within the scope of their
magisterial duties.

IV. A. Omnes vigintisexviri a Comitiis Populi Tributis in electionibus
anniversariis creabuntur.

IV. A. All vigintisexviri shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa
during the annual elections.

B. Spatium normale munerum vigintisexvirorum annus erit.

B. The normal term of office for the vigintisexviri shall be one year.

C. Magistratus vigintisexviri suffecti creati ad substituendos
magistratus qui in muneribus manere non possunt usque ad finem anni in
quo sunt creati servient.

C. Suffectus (replacement) vigintisexviri magistrates elected to
replace magistrates who are unable to continue in office shall serve
until the end of the year in which they are elected.

V. Si magistratus minores ulli vigintisexvirorum vacui fiant post Idus
Septembres anno proprio, licebit Senatui suffectum facere ut magistratu
reliquum anni fungatur magis quam comitia in Comitiis Populi Tributis
habeant.

V. If any of the minor magistracies of the vigintisexviri become vacant
after the Ides of September in a given year, the Senate may appoint a
suffectus to fill that magistracy for the remainder of the year in lieu
of holding an election in the Comitia Populi Tributa.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE VIGINTISEXVIRIS]

The fourth law offered is a comprehensive Family Law lex which
implements a number of practices from Roma Antiqua within Nova
Roma. This lex is the compliment of the constitutional amendment
offered in the Comitia Centuriata as the Lex Equitia de Gentibus.

LEX EQUITIA DE FAMILIA

I. Legal Status
a. Every citizen is either sui iuris (in his own power) or alieni
iuris (in another's power).
b. Any citizen who is a paterfamilias (father of the household)
or a materfamilias (mother of the household) is sui iuris; any citizen
who is sui iuris is a paterfamilias or materfamilias.
c. Any citizen who is a filiusfamilias (son in power) or a
filiafamilias (daughter in power) is in the patria potestas (hereafter
'potestas') of his or her paterfamilias and / or materfamilias.
d. A wife who is married cum manu is in the manus of her husband;
if her husband is a filiusfamilias she is also in the potestas of her
husband's paterfamilias and / or materfamilias. If her husband is sui
iuris, he is her paterfamilias; if her husband is alieni iuris, his
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias is / are her paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias.
e. Any citizen who is in potestas or in manus is alieni iuris.

II. Familiae
a. A familia (household) consists of a paterfamilias and everyone
who is in his potestas or manus; or a materfamilias and everyone who is
in her potestas; or two heads of household together in a free marriage
and everyone who is in their shared potestas.
b. Within this law, the phrase 'paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias' means the paterfamilias where he has sole potestas over
his familia, or the materfamilias where she has sole potestas over her
familia, or both heads of household where they share potestas over their
familia.
c. Within this law, the phrase 'paterfamilias or materfamilias'
means the paterfamilias where he has sole potestas over his familia, or
the materfamilias where she has sole potestas over her familia, or
either one of the heads of household where they share potestas over
their familia.
d. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias hold(s) potestas over
his, her, or their legal descendants (except those who have been
emancipated, married cum manu into another familia, or adopted into
another familia) and the wives cum manu of those legal descendants.
e. A male citizen who is sui iuris is the paterfamilias of all
those in his potestas or manus; a female citizen who is sui iuris is the
materfamilias of all those in her potestas.
f. Potestas cannot be shared except by two citizens who are
married to one another in a free marriage and are both sui iuris. Where
two or more citizens who are sui iuris but are not married to one
another in a free marriage have a claim under this law to potestas over
another citizen, the praetores may decide the matter, giving potestas to
whichever party is best able to fulfill the duties and exercise the
rights of a paterfamilias or materfamilias towards the person concerned.
g. For the purpose of family law, and with regard to their
familia, a sui iuris citizen couple in a free marriage who share
potestas are treated as a single legal person, and any action taken by
one of them by virtue of their potestas is considered a join action by
both together. For all other purposes each remains individually
answerable at law for his or her own actions.

III. Rights & Duties of Patria Potestas & Manus
a. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may make legal contracts and
transactions, and acquire, hold, and dispose of property and contractual
rights, benefits, and obligations, on behalf of his or her familia or
its individual members.
b. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may give or withold specific
or general consent for members of his or her familia to make legal
contracts or transactions, or acquire or dispose of property or
contractual rights, benefits, or obligations.
c. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may regulate the conduct of
members of his or her familia by means of rewards and punishments. No
officer or organ of the state shall interfere either to assist or to
prevent the imposition of punishment by a paterfamilias or materfamilias
upon a member of his or her familia.
d. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias hold(s) responsibility
for the upbringing, education, good conduct, and well-being of those in
his, her, or their potestas or manus.

IV. Legal Capacity
a. A citizen who is alieni iuris has no legal capacity to make or
witness any legal contract or transaction, or to acquire or dispose of
property or contractual rights, benefits, or obligations, except with
the explicit consent (whether specific or general) of his or her
paterfamilias or materfamilias.
b. A citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has no
legal capacity to make or witness any legal contract or transaction, or
to acquire or dispose of property or contractual rights, benefits, or
obligations, except through his or her tutor or tutrix.
c. Anyone who, having entered into such a contract or
transaction, later discovers that the other party was at the time alieni
iuris and acting without the necessary consent, has 60 days to petition
the praetores for the restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status
quo ante; if he or she does not, it is considered that he or she has
reaffirmed that contract or transaction as between himself or herself
and the paterfamilias and / or materfamilias of the original party.
d. Any paterfamilias or materfamilias who discovers that anyone
in his or her potestas or manus has entered into such a contract or
transaction without the necessary consent has 60 days to petition the
praetores for the restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status quo
ante; if he or she does not, it is considered that he or she has
reaffirmed the contract or transaction as between himself or herself and
the other party.
e. Anyone who, having entered into such a contract or
transaction, later discovers that the other party was at the time sui
iuris but below the age of 18 and not acting through his or her tutor or
tutrix, has 60 days to petition the praetores for the restoration, as
nearly as possible, of the status quo ante; if he or she does not, it is
considered that he or she has reaffirmed that contract or transaction.
f. Any tutor or tutrix who discovers that his or her pupillus or
pupilla has entered into such a contract or transaction without acting
through him or her has 60 days to petition the praetores for the
restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status quo ante; if he or she
does not, it is considered that he or she has reaffirmed the contract or
transaction.

V. Legal Action
a. A citizen who is alieni iuris may not be party to legal action
except where explicitly provided by lex, decretum, edictum, or
senatusconsultum.
b. If a citizen who is alieni iuris commits an offence, his or
her paterfamilias and / or materfamilias are liable for it; if, in such
a case, the paterfamilias' and / or materfamilias' failure to prevent
the commission of the offence was due to his or her unavoidable physical
absence, the praetor may, at his or her discretion, include in the
formula an exceptio (defence) or vis maior (insurmountable necessity).
c. If anyone commits an offence against or incurs a legal
obligation to a citizen who is alieni iuris, the latter's paterfamilias
or materfamilias may take legal action on his or her behalf.
d. A tutor or tutrix may represent and act on behalf of his or
her pupillus or pupilla in legal matters, but is not personally liable
for the offences of the pupillus or pupilla.
e. No one shall be held legally liable for any offence except one
who was legally liable at the time.

VI. Changes In Legal Status
a. A filiusfamilias or filiafamilias becomes sui iuris if he or
she is emancipated.
b. A filiusfamilias or filiafamilias becomes sui iuris if he or
she has no legal ascendant who is a citizen.
c. A wife cum manu becomes sui iuris if her marriage is dissolved.
d. A wife cum manu becomes sui iuris if her husband dies or loses
his citizenship.
e. A citizen who is alieni iuris becomes sui iuris if he or she
is or becomes a flamen, rex sacrorum, a pontifex, or a civil magistrate.
f. A paterfamilias or materfamilias becomes alieni iuris if he or
she is adopted by adrogatio.
g. A matefamilias becomes alieni iuris is she is married cum manu.

VII. Marriage
a. If two people live together with affectio maritalis (marital
affection), i.e., regarding themselves as married to one another, their
relationship is a free marriage.
b. If a male and a female citizen live together for a full year
with affectio maritalis without the woman being absent from their home
for three or more nights in a row, they may declare their relationship a
marriage cum manu contracted by usus. Without such declaration their
marriage remains a free marriage.
c. If a male and a female citizen undergo the ceremony of
coemptio in the presence of five witnesses who have the capacity to
witness legal transactions, their relationship is a marriage cum manu
contracted by coemptio.
d. If a male and a female citizen of whom one is a patrician or a
member of the collegium pontificium undergo the ceremony of confarreatio
in the presence of the pontifex maximus, their relationship is a
marriage cum manu contracted by confarreatio.
e. If two people are married to one another under the law of the
state in which they live but meet none of the criteria set out in VII.a,
b, c, or d, their relationship is a free marriage.
f. If a materfamilias marries cum manu, those in her potestas are
transferred to the potestas of her husband.

VIII. Dissolution Of Marriage
a. If a person in a free marriage notifies his or her spouse in
writing that he or she wishes the marriage to end, that marriage is
dissolved. If, however, both spouses regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as if there had been no
dissolution.
b. If a person in a free marriage contracts a new marriage in any
of the ways set out in VII, the former marriage is dissolved. If,
however, the original spouses regain affectio maritalis within a year of
the dissolution, the marriage resumes as if there had been no dissolution.
c. If a husband married cum manu by coemptio or by usus
emancipates his wife, the marriage is dissolved. If, however, the
spouses retain affectio maritalis or regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as a free marriage.
d. If a couple married cum manu by confarreatio undergoes the
ceremony of diffareatio, the marriage is dissolved. If, however, the
spouses retain affectio maritalis or regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as a free marriage.

IX. Prohibited Marriages
a. No marriage may exist if either party is younger than 18 years.
b. No marriage may exist between a citizen and his or her legal
or biological ascendant or descendant.
c. No marriage may exist between a citizen and his or her legal
or biological collateral relative if either party is fewer than two
degrees removed from their common ascendant; except that a marriage
between adoptive collateral relatives may exist if at least one party is
sui iuris.
d. No marriage may exist between a citizen and the former spouse
of his or her legal or biological ascendant or descendant, or between a
citizens and the legal or biological ascendant or descendant of his or
her former spouse.

X. Emancipation
a. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may emancipate a
person, thus releasing him or her from potestas or manus, provided that
he, she, or they notify the praetores of the emancipation, and provided
that five witnesses who have the capacity to witness legal transactions
also notify the praetores that they bear witness.
b. A citizen who is alieni iuris and whose paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias refuses(s) to emancipate him or her may petition the
praetores; if the praetores, after consulting with the paterfamilias and
/ or materfamilias, consider the refusal unreasonable, they may declare
the petitioner sui iuris.

XI. Adoption
a. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may adopt by adrogatio
another citizen who is sui iuris provided that the adoptive parent(s) is
/ are at least 18 years older than the adopted child, and provided that
the adoptive parents(s) and the adopted child all notify the pontifex
maximus of their consent, and provided that the pontifex maximus
consents, and provided that the comitia curiata bears witness (without
right of refusal).
b. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may adopt by adoptio
another citizen who is alieni iuris provided that the adoptive parent(s)
is / are at least 18 years older than the adopted child, and provided
that the adoptive paterfamilias and / or materfamilias and the former
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias all notify the praetores of their
consent, and provided that five witnesses who have the capacity to
witness legal transactions also notify the praetores that they bear witness.
c. A citizen adopted by adrogatio becomes the legal child of the
adoptive parent(s) and passes into his, her, or their potestas, and
ceases to be the legal child relative of his or her former relatives
except those in his or her potestas or manus; anyone in the potestas or
manus of the adopted child becomes the legal descendant of the adoptive
parent(s) in whatever relationship is appropriate to the new
relationship between the adopted child and the adoptive parent(s), and
passes into the potestas of the adoptive parent(s).
d. A citizen adopted by adoptio becomes the legal child of the
adoptive parent(s) and ceases to be the legal relative of his or her
former relatives, and passes from the potestas of his or her former
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias into the potestas of the adoptive
parent(s).
e. A citizen adopted by adrogatio or by adoptio takes the name of
his or her adoptive father (or, if there is no adoptive father, the name
of his or her adoptive mother), adjusted to his or her gender as
appropriate, and adds an agnomen formed from his or her former nomen
with the ending -ianus or -iana (e.g., Salix becomes Salicianus, Equitia
becomes Equitiana). Any other relatives transferred from one familia to
another by adrogatio also change their names in the same way.

XII. Tutela
a. Any citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 must
have a tutor or tutrix (guardian); a citizen who has a tutor is referred
to as a pupillus or pupilla.
b. If a citizen is emancipated by his or her paterfamilias and /
or materfamilias, his or her former paterfamilas and / or materfamilias
is / are his or her tutor, tutrix, or tutores, unless during the
emancipation process it is explicitly stated in the notification to the
praetores and explicitly witnessed by all the witnesses that one of the
witnesses it to be tutor instead.
c. If a citizen is emancipated by the praetores, the praetores
must appoint a tutor or tutrix.
d. If a citizen becomes sui iuris on the death of his or her
paterfamilias or materfamilias, and if in a valid will the deceased has
nominated an eligible citizen as tutor or tutrix, the nominated citizen
has 30 days from the time when the will takes effect to accept the
nomination; if he or she does not, he or she is considered to have refused.
e. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
no tutor under XII.b, XII.c, or XII.d, his or her nearest eligible legal
relative is tutor or tutrix, without right of refusal; if several
eligible legal relatives are equally closely related, they are joint
tutores.
f. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
no tutor under XII.b, XII.c, XII.d, or XII.e, the praetores may appoint
a consenting eligible citizen to be tutor or tutrix.
g. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
need of a temporary tutor or tutrix (for instance while waiting for a
tutor nominated in a will to accept, or to take legal action on behalf
of the pupillus or pupilla against the latter's regular tutor or
tutrix), the praetores may appoint a consenting eligible citizen to be
tutor or tutrix for a specified period or until a specified condition be
fulfilled.
h. To be eligible to be a tutor or tutrix a person must be a full
citizen over the age of 18, sui iuris, and not prohibited from doing so
by a court judgement of the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
i. A tutor or tutrix may make legal contracts or transactions,
and acquire, hold, and dispose of property and contractual rights,
benefits, and obligations, on behalf of his or her pupillus or pupilla,
but only in such a way as to conserve or increase the property and
contractual rights and benefits of his or her pupillus or pupilla.
k. A tutor or tutrix must make arrangements and, if necessary,
financial provision for his or her pupillus' or pupilla's education and
upbringing.
l. When a pupillus or pupilla reaches the age of 18 his or her
tutor or tutrix is relieved or his or her duties and must surrender to
the pupillus or pupilla any property or contractual rights, benefits, or
obligations acquired or held on his or her behalf.
m. If a pupillus or pupilla enters the potestas of another
citizen, his or her tutor is relieved of his or her duties and must
surrender to the new paterfamilias and / or materfamilias any property
or contractual rights, benefits, or obligations acquired or held on
behalf of the pupillus or pupilla.

XIII. Succession
a. Any citizen who is sui iuris and aged 18 or above, and who is
not prohibited from doing so by a court judgement or the ruling of a
magistrate with imperium, may make a legal will.
b. A will is invalid unless witnessed by five citizens who have
the capacity to witness legal transactions, and unless the testator was
of sound mind at the time when the will was written, and unless the will
clearly names as heir at least one citizen who is sui iuris (or becomes
sui iuris on the testator's death) and not prohibited from acting as
heir by a court judgement or the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
c. A citizen named as heir in a valid will may refuse up to 30
days after discovering that he or she has been named as heir. The will
may name another eligible citizen as secondary heir in case the primary
heir refuses, and so on indefinitely. If no heir so named accepts, the
will is invalid. A citizen who becomes sui iuris as a result of the
death of the deceased may not refuse the inheritance.
d. If a paterfamilias or materfamilias dies without leaving a
valid will, any citizens who become sui iuris as a result of the death
become heirs without right of refusal; if no citizens become sui iuris
as a result of the death, the nearest eligible legal relative(s)
become(s) heir(s), each having the right to refuse up to 30 days after
discovering that he or she is heir; if there are no eligible legal
relatives prepared to accept the inheritance, the inhertiance passes to
the gens of the deceased and may be disposed of by agreement of the
patresfamilias and matresfamilias of the gens.
e. If more than one person is heir and the will, if there is one,
does not state in what proportions they are to share the inheritance,
the inheritance is shared equally; except that if there is no valid will
and the heirs are those who have become sui iuris as a result of the
death, stirpitial representation applies as in ancient law. If one
person who is named co-heir in a will refuses the inheritance, his or
her share goes to the other heirs in proportion to their existing shares.
f. The heir(s) inherit(s) any property and contractual rights,
benefits, and obligations which were held by the deceased and within the
jurisdiction of Nova Roma, and must put into effect the instructions
given by the deceased in any valid will except any instructions which
are illegal, immoral, or impossible; and must assume responsibility for
the familial sacra of the deceased.

XIV. Remedies
a. Any citizen who has the legal capacity to take legal action
may bring an action under the lex Salicia iudiciaria, or whatever lex
shall supersede it, against a paterfamilias and / or materfamilias for
seriously and consistently failing in his, her, or their duties to his,
her, or their familias or a particular member of it. The praetor shall
direct in his or her formula that if the reus, rea, or rei be found
guilty his, her, or their familia or a particular member of it be
removed from his, her, or their potestas or manus and, if necessary,
placed under the tutela of a tutor or tutrix. The praetor may include
other penalties at his or her discretion.
b. Any citizen who who has the legal capacity to take legal
action may bring an action under the lex Salicia iuridiciaria, or
whatever lex shall supersede it, against a tutor or tutrix for failing
in his or her duties to his or her pupillus or pupilla. A pupillus or
pupilla may petition the praetores to appoint a temporary tutor or
tutrix to bring such an action on his or her behalf. The praetor shall
direct in his or her formula that if the reus be found guilty his
pupillus or pupilla be removed from his or her tutela and placed under
the tutela of another tutor or tutrix. The praetor may require the reus
or rea to make restitution for any avoidable diminution of the property
or contractual rights or benefits of the pupillus or pupilla and to meet
personally any contractual obligations incurred by the tutor or tutrix
on behalf of the pupillus or pupilla, and may include other penalties at
his or her discretion.

XV. New Citizens
a. A new citizen entering Nova Roma as the legal child of another
citizen takes that citizen's nomen and cognomen, and may choose a
praenomen and agnomina subject to the approval of his or her new legal
parent and of the magistrates tasked with citizen registration. A new
citizen entering Nova Roma as the legal child of a married citizen
couple takes the nomen and cognomen of his or her legal father, and may
choose a praenomen and agnomina subject to the approval of his or her
new legal parents and of the magistrates tasked with citizen registration.
b. A person who is the biological child of a citizen or of a
married citizen couple, or who is the legally adopted child of a citizen
or of a married citizen couple according to the law of the state in
which he or she lives, shall have the right to become a citizen as the
legal child of that citizen or married citizen couple.
c. A new citizen entering Nova Roma as a paterfamilias or
materfamilias takes the nomen appropriate to his or her gens and a
cognomen not already held by any member of that gens.

XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions
a. To have capacity to witness a legal transaction a person must
be a citizen, sui iuris, aged 18 years or above, and not prohibited from
doing so by a court judgement of the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
b. All citizens retain those rights guaranteed in the
Constitution of Nova Roma. The rights of alieni iuris citizens may be
exercised on their behalf by their paterfamilias, materfamilias, tutor,
or tutrix, except where an alieni iuris citizen is petitioning a praetor
directly.
c. No citizen may vote in comitia for another citizen, regardless
of familial status, unless a proxy statement has been filed by the
citizen granting a voting proxy. This proxy statement must be filed with
the presiding magistrate of the comitia during the contio period prior
to the vote.
d. The praetores may clarify, supplement, and interpret this law
with reference to the relevant provisions and practices of republican
Roman law, and with reference to the principles of justice and equity,
as was done by the praetores of antiquity.

[End text of LEX EQUITIA DE FAMILIA]

The fifth law defines the jurisdiction of the praetors and provides
for provincial promagistrates to act as legal authority in legal
cases where all involved citizens reside within their province.

LEX EQVITIA DE IVRISDICTIONE

This law is enacted in order to further define the term "competence" as
used in the lex Salicia iudiciaria.

I. The praetores shall have competence to grant trial in any matter
between citizens (or in any matter between a citizen and a peregrinus or
between peregrini provided that the conditions set in the lex Salicia
poenalis article VII.B are observed), with the following exceptions:

a. The praetores shall not grant trial against a reus who is a
sitting magistrate.
b. The praetores shall not grant trial against a reus who is a
former dictator regarding any action taken by that person in the course
of his duties as dictator.

II. Whenever a praetor shall receive a petitio actionis regarding which
he is forbidden by this lex from granting trial, he shall dismiss the
petitio actionis under the lex Salicia iudiciaria article II.a.

III. The governor of a provincia shall have competence to grant trial in
any matter between citizens who live in that provincia (or in any matter
between a citizen and a peregrinus who both live in that provincia or
between peregrini who both live in that provincia provided that the
conditions set in the lex Salicia poenalis article VII.B are observed).

a. In such cases, all laws concerning the administration of
justice shall apply as usual, any reference to the praetor or the
praetores being construed as referring to the governor.
b. Should the praetores receive any petitio actionis concerning a
matter which is between two citizens who live in the same provincia, or
between a citizen and a peregrinus who live in the same provincia, or
between two peregrini who live in the same provincia, they shall pass
the petitio to the governor of that provincia.
c. Should a petitio submitted to a governor be dismissed by that
governor, or should the governor fail to respond to such a petitio
within 120 hours (5 days) of its submission, the petitioner may submit
the same petitio to the praetores, and the praetores may deal with the
petitio as under the lex Salicia iudiciaria and all other relevant laws.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE IVRISDICTIONE]


=================================================================

The presidium shall be Fabia (Tribe I).

Schedule for the Contio and vote:

22 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio begins at dawn Roma time
23 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
24 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
25 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
26 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
27 Septembris (dies comitialis) At dawn (06:00) Roma time contio ends
and voting begins
28 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
29 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
30 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
1 Octobris (dies nefastus) Voting suspended at 00:01 Roma time
2 Octobris (dies fastus) Voting suspended
3 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting resumes at 00:01 Roma time
4 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
5 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting ends at dusk (18:00) Roma time


Please note that the time in Roma is Central European Time (CET), which
is six hours later than Eastern Standard Time in the United States, and
one hour later than Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).


Valete Quirites,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Consul

Salvete Quirites,

One more edit, this time to the Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiruranda.
Apologies for two of these updates in quick succession.

-- Marinus

Valete,

Gn. Equitius Marinus

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Consul Quiritibus Salutem Plurimam Dicit

In accordance with our laws, augur Gaius Modius Athanasius has taken
an auspicium at my request, for the purpose of convening the Comitia.
The augury being favorable, I call the Comitia Populi Tributa for the
purpose of voting on the following laws.


LEX EQVITIA DE TIROCINIO CIVIVM NOVORVM

I. A. Vt pater aut materfamilias personam gentilem tollat et magistratus
proprios quibus praestat cives in album referre de hac approbatione
certiores faciat, civitas Novae Romae ilico coepit.

I. A. Nova Roman citizenship begins at the instant a pater or
materfamilias recognizes a person as a member of his or her Nova
Roman familia and informs the appropriate Nova Roman
magistrates in charge of citizen registration of this recognition.

B. Ad familias nuper creatas quarum patres vel matresfamiliarum
cives novi sunt, civitatem simul recipientes ac familias
constituentes
in album referentesque, censoribus probantibus civitas incipit.

B. In the case of newly-created familiae whose patres or
matresfamiliarum are new citizens receiving citizenship at the
same
time as the familiae are being formed and registered, citizenship
begins with the approval of the Censors.

II. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, omnes cives novi Novae Romae
tirocinio ut minimum nonaginta dierum subicientur, per quod eis iura
publica non licebit; nec suffragium ferant, nec aliquem honorem
publicum
petant.

II. Beginning Kalendis Ianuarias, MMDCCLVIII, all new citizens of Nova
Roma shall be subject to a probationary period of at least 90 days,
during which they will not be allowed the 'iura publica', the right
to vote and to stand for any public office.

III. A. Post nonaginta dies, cum civis novus periculum probationis
simplicis de rebus magni momenti civitati Novae Romae,
rudimentisque historiae, religionis, linguae, consuetudinum
civiliumque Romanorum subeat et approbetur, tirocinium
conficiet.

III. A. The probationary period will end when 90 days have passed
and the
new citizen has taken and passed a simple examination
covering
elementary matters of Nova Roman citizenship and basic Roman
history, religion, language, and social practices.

B. Petitore roganti, haec probatio in promptu erit versa in omnes
linguas quibus interpretes periti Novae Romae adsunt.

B. This examination shall be made available, upon request of the
applicant, in any of the languages for which Nova Roma has
qualified translators.

C. Probatio a censoribus vel magistratibus aliis designatis a
censoribus excoletur, et quotannis a Senatu recensebitur.

C. The examination will be developed by the Censors or such other
magistrates as the Censors may designate, and shall be
reviewed
annually by the Senate.

D. Exercitia a censoribus vel talibus aliis e lege praescriptis
notabitur.

D. The examination will be graded by the Censors or by such other
persons as may be directed by law.


IV. A. In rebus raris, haec necessaria omnino vel partim a Senatu
remittentur.

IV. A. These requirements may be wholly or partially waived by the
Senate in exceptional circumstances.

B. Nullo pacto circumscribantur; exempla immunitatum talium autem
includant:

B. Examples of such exceptions would include, but not be
limited to:

1. Petitores qui cives peregrini municipi vel oppidi sex
menses
fuerunt.

1. Applicants who have been peregrine citizens of a
municipium
or oppidum for 6 months.

2. Petitores qui cives peregrini municipi vel oppidi qui
duumviri, aediles, vel magistratus suffragiis creati
delecti
sunt.

2. Applicants who are peregrine citizens of municipia or
oppida
who have been elected to an elective office such as
duumvir
or aedilis.

3. Petitores a magistratu curuli provinciae praesidenteve
commendantur.

3. applicants sponsored by a curule magistrate, including
provincial governors.

4. Petitores qui potestates raras academicas professionisve
habent.

4. Applicants with exceptional academic and professional
qualifications.

V. A. Civibus impuberibus qui post Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII
participes Novae Romae erunt et qui nondum duodeviginti annos
nati sunt periculum probationis subeant usque ad nonaginta
dies
ante diem natale duodevicesimum suum licet.

V. A. Minor citizens who join Nova Roma after Kalendis Ianuarias,
MMDCCLVIII and who have not yet reached 18 years of age may
take
the examination up to 90 days before their 18th birthday.

B. Periculo probationis praemature subeundo et superando non liceat
suffragia ferant aut honores petant ante diem natalem suum
duodevicesimum.

B. Taking and passing the examination early will not entitle them to
vote or stand for office before their 18th birthday.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE TIROCINIO CIVIVM NOVORVM]

This next law corrects an overly punitive provision of an old law which
has recently proven damaging to the health of our Republic by needlessly
penalizing citizens who have contributed greatly to Nova Roma. I don't
yet have the Latin translation of this law available, but the English
text is provided for voter review.


LEX EQUITIA DE CIVITATE EIURANDA

I. The Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda is hereby amended as
follows:

A. Section III is hereby annulled.

B. Section V is hereby altered to read as follows:

1. The ex-citizen, in the event that he desires to reacquire
citizenship, must apply in the same fashion as any other person desirous
of citizenship would, with the exception that he/she is directed to
state in his/her application the reasons behind his/her resignation and
decision to reverse the resignation and come back. His/her Roman name
may be resumed if no other citizen of Nova Roma has taken it up in
his/her absence.

2. As offices are de facto resigned when Citizenship is
resigned, no public offices held at the time of resignation
automatically carry over to the returning citizen, with the exception of
any religious title and corresponding century points that may be
specified by the Collegium Pontificum.

3. Any titles, honors and effects of past offices, or century
points carry over to the returning citizen only after a period of six
months, with the exception of any religious title and corresponding
century points that may be specified by the Collegium Pontificum.

4. Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the
Censores collegially.

5. Gens affiliation in all instances remains at the
discretion of the pater or materfamilias.

C. Section VI is hereby altered to read as follows:

1. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and
resigns a second time, that ex-citizen is barred for two years from
reinstatement.

[End text of LEX EQUITIA DE CIVITATE EIURANDA]

The next law was already presented in contio, but due to an error
in the Cista the populous was not able to vote on it during the
last voting interval. Therefore I present it again. Please note
that it repeals three existing laws, replacing them all with this
one. Again, the Latin text is not yet available, but I provide
the English text for your review.


LEX EQVITIA DE VIGINTISEXVIRIS

Praeambulatio


Romae antiquae, vigintisexviri magistratus minores erant, qui negotia
translaticia rei publicae administrandae tractabant. Novae Romae nomen
VIGINTISEXVIRORVM magistratibus minoribus conservamus, nec vigintisex
postulantes, nec viris solis hos magistratus definientes.

Preamble

In Roma Antiqua, the Vigintisexviri--literally, 'the twenty-six
men'--were minor magistrates who handled much of the routine
administrative business of Rome. In Nova Roma, we preserve the title
VIGINTISEXVIRI for minor magistracies, without requiring twenty-six, and
without restricting these magistracies to men.

I. A. Ex hac, Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri, Lex Minucia de Rogatoribus, et
Lex Equitia de Mutandis Appellationibus Duorum Magistratuum Minorum
abrogantur.

I. A. The Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri, Lex Minucia de Rogatoribus, and Lex
Equitia de Mutandis Appellationibus Duorum Magistratuum Minorum are
hereby repealed.

B. Omnes leges, decreta, edictaque Novae Romae memorantes magistratus
vigintisexvirorum retractantur, ut inscriptionibus infra definitis utantur.

B. All Nova Roman laws, decrees, and edicts which make reference to
magistrates of the Vigintisexviri are revised to use the titles defined
below.

II. E Constitutione Novae Romae, magistratus minores in numero
vigintisexvirorum definiuntur:

II. In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, the following
minor magistracies are defined within the category of Vigintisexviri:

A. Magister aranearius. Magister situs interretialis.

A. Webmaster.

1. Magister aranearius descriptioni, tuitioni, mutationique
alicui situum interretialium publicorum Re Publica editorum praestabit.

1. The magister aranearius shall be responsible for the
design, maintenance, and any alteration of the official web site(s)
sponsored by the State.

2. Magister aranearius scientiam ab aliis magistratibus
institutisque Novae Romae ambiet de rebus quae in sitibus
interretialibus insunt.

2. The magister aranearius shall solicit input from the other
magistrates and institutions of Nova Roma regarding content for the web
site.

3. Licebit magistro araneario scribas suos creare, si necesse
habet.

3. The magister aranearius shall have the authority to
appoint his own scribae, should he deem it necessary.

B. Editor Commentariorum--Editor Novorum Scriptorum.

B. Editor of Written News.


1. Editor commentariorum producendis, foras efferendis,
distribuendisque editionum publicarum editarum Re Publica praestabit.

1. The editor commentariorum shall be responsible for the
production, publication, and distribution of the official publications
sponsored by the State.

2. Editori commentariorum licebit scribas suos creare, si
necesse habet.

2. The editor commentariorum shall have the authority to
appoint his own scribae, should he deem it necessary.

C. Rogatores. Magistratus ad consignandos suffragium ferentes.

1. a. Vsque ad Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII, quattuor rogatores
curae electionibus et in curiis suffragiis in tabulas referendis
praestabunt.

1. a. Until the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January 2005),
four rogatores shall be responsible for the administration of elections
and the recording of votes among the curiae.

b. Licebit rogatori cuique scribas suos creare, si necesse
habet.

b. Each rogator shall have the authority to appoint his own
scribae, should he deem it necessary.

c. Inopia sui numeri ipsa vel societatis gnavae quattuor
rogatorum electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

c. The lack of a full complement of, or the active
participation of, four rogatores shall not in and of itself be
sufficient to invalidate or postpone a particular election.

d. Rogatores munera su inter se ratione eis idonea et usui
describant.

d. The rogatores may divide their duties amongst themselves
as they see fit and practical.

e. Cum e definitione rogatores singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere rogatorum manent, non licebit rogatoribus
munera aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

e. Since the rogatores are by definition privy to the
details of the election process, they may not run for any elective
office while they serve in office as rogatores.

2. a. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, duo rogatores ministri
censoribus creabuntur, praestantes eis qui ius suffragi ferendi habent
consignandis, leges eis suffragium ferentibus proponentibus, et
rationibus petitionum translaticiarum civitati administrandis.

2. a. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January
2005), two rogatores shall be elected to act as subordinate magistrates
to the censores, responsible for registering qualified voters, issuing
voter codes, and administering the routine citizenship application process.

2. b. Per intervalla temporis in quibus nulli censores officio
praestant, rogatores conservationem translaticiam Albi Civium Albi
Gentiumque cum magistro araneario exsequantur.

b. During intervals when no censors are serving in office, the
rogatores may carry out the routine maintenance of the Album Civium and
the Album Gentium in concert with the magister aranearius.

c. Licebit rogatori cuique scribas suos creet, si necesse
habet.

c. Each rogator shall have the authority to appoint his own
scribae, should he deem it necessary.

C. Diribitores--Suffragiorum computatores.

1. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, usque ad quattuor diribitores
suffragiis in curiis enumerandis praestabunt.

1. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January
2005), up to four diribitores shall be responsible for the counting of
votes among the curiae.

2. Inopia sui numeri ipsa vel societatis gnavae quattuor
diribitorum electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

2. The lack of a full complement of, or the active participation
of, four diribitores shall not in and of itself be sufficient to
invalidate or postpone a particular election.

3. Custodibus approbantibus, diribitores munera sua inter se modo
eis idoneo et usui describant.

3. The diribitores may divide their duties among themselves as they
see fit and practical with the approval of the custodes.

4. Cum e definitione diribitores singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere diribitorum manent eis non licebit munera
aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

4. Since the diribitores are by definition privy to the details of
the election process, they may not run for any elective office while
they serve in office as diribitores.

5. Diribitores modo suffragia enumerabunt, nec suffragia paria
constituant.

5. Diribitores shall only count votes, and shall not engage in any
tie-breaking.

E. Custodes. Iudices Electionum.

1. A Kalendis Ianuariis MMDCCLVIII, duo custodes recognoscendis
tesseris suffragiorum in electionibus eis a diribitoribus relatis
praestabunt, suffragia paria in centuriis tribusque statuentes, et
exitus electionum centuriis tribusve magistratibus electionibus
praesidentibus praebentes.

1. Beginning on the Kalends of January MMDCCLVIII (1 January 2005),
two custodes shall be responsible for certifying the tally of votes in
elections as reported to them by the diribitores, breaking any ties
among the centuries and tribes, and providing the results of elections
to the magistrates presiding over the elections.

2. Cum e definitione custodes singulorum rationis electionis
conscii sunt, dum in munere custodum manent, eis non licebit munera
aliqua suffragiis creata petant.

2. Since by definition the custodes are privy to the details of the
election process, they may not run for any elective office while they
serve in office as custodes.

3. Inopia ipsa sui numeri vel societatis gnavae amborum custodum
electionem propriam infirmare vel differre non sufficiet.

3. The lack of a full complement of, or the active participation
of, both custodes shall not in and of itself be sufficient to invalidate
or postpone a particular election.

4. Si eis placeat, custodes suffragiis enumerandis diribitores
adiuvent.

4. Custodes may, if they choose, assist the diribitores in the
vote-counting process.

5. Si nulli diribitores sint, custodes munera diribitorum
suscipiant dum satis diribitorum creati sunt.

5. In the event that there are no diribitores, the custodes
shall assume the duties of diribitores until sufficient diribitores have
been elected.

III. Magistratus minores, omnes vigintisexviri Ius Edicendi habebunt,
ius edictorum edendorum in finibus munerum suorum.

III. As minor magistrates, all vigintisexviri shall possess the Ius
Edicendi, the right to publish edicta within the scope of their
magisterial duties.

IV. A. Omnes vigintisexviri a Comitiis Populi Tributis in electionibus
anniversariis creabuntur.

IV. A. All vigintisexviri shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa
during the annual elections.

B. Spatium normale munerum vigintisexvirorum annus erit.

B. The normal term of office for the vigintisexviri shall be one
year.

C. Magistratus vigintisexviri suffecti creati ad substituendos
magistratus qui in muneribus manere non possunt usque ad finem anni in
quo sunt creati servient.

C. Suffectus (replacement) vigintisexviri magistrates elected to
replace magistrates who are unable to continue in office shall serve
until the end of the year in which they are elected.

V. Si magistratus minores ulli vigintisexvirorum vacui fiant post Idus
Septembres anno proprio, licebit Senatui suffectum facere ut magistratu
reliquum anni fungatur magis quam comitia in Comitiis Populi Tributis
habeant.

V. If any of the minor magistracies of the vigintisexviri become vacant
after the Ides of September in a given year, the Senate may appoint a
suffectus to fill that magistracy for the remainder of the year in lieu
of holding an election in the Comitia Populi Tributa.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE VIGINTISEXVIRIS]

The fourth law offered is a comprehensive Family Law lex which
implements a number of practices from Roma Antiqua within Nova
Roma. This lex is the compliment of the constitutional amendment
offered in the Comitia Centuriata as the Lex Equitia de Gentibus.

LEX EQUITIA DE FAMILIA

I. Legal Status
a. Every citizen is either sui iuris (in his own power) or alieni
iuris (in another's power).
b. Any citizen who is a paterfamilias (father of the household)
or a materfamilias (mother of the household) is sui iuris; any citizen
who is sui iuris is a paterfamilias or materfamilias.
c. Any citizen who is a filiusfamilias (son in power) or a
filiafamilias (daughter in power) is in the patria potestas (hereafter
'potestas') of his or her paterfamilias and / or materfamilias.
d. A wife who is married cum manu is in the manus of her husband;
if her husband is a filiusfamilias she is also in the potestas of her
husband's paterfamilias and / or materfamilias. If her husband is sui
iuris, he is her paterfamilias; if her husband is alieni iuris, his
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias is / are her paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias.
e. Any citizen who is in potestas or in manus is alieni iuris.

II. Familiae
a. A familia (household) consists of a paterfamilias and everyone
who is in his potestas or manus; or a materfamilias and everyone who is
in her potestas; or two heads of household together in a free marriage
and everyone who is in their shared potestas.
b. Within this law, the phrase 'paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias' means the paterfamilias where he has sole potestas over
his familia, or the materfamilias where she has sole potestas over her
familia, or both heads of household where they share potestas over their
familia.
c. Within this law, the phrase 'paterfamilias or materfamilias'
means the paterfamilias where he has sole potestas over his familia, or
the materfamilias where she has sole potestas over her familia, or
either one of the heads of household where they share potestas over
their familia.
d. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias hold(s) potestas over
his, her, or their legal descendants (except those who have been
emancipated, married cum manu into another familia, or adopted into
another familia) and the wives cum manu of those legal descendants.
e. A male citizen who is sui iuris is the paterfamilias of all
those in his potestas or manus; a female citizen who is sui iuris is the
materfamilias of all those in her potestas.
f. Potestas cannot be shared except by two citizens who are
married to one another in a free marriage and are both sui iuris. Where
two or more citizens who are sui iuris but are not married to one
another in a free marriage have a claim under this law to potestas over
another citizen, the praetores may decide the matter, giving potestas to
whichever party is best able to fulfill the duties and exercise the
rights of a paterfamilias or materfamilias towards the person concerned.
g. For the purpose of family law, and with regard to their
familia, a sui iuris citizen couple in a free marriage who share
potestas are treated as a single legal person, and any action taken by
one of them by virtue of their potestas is considered a join action by
both together. For all other purposes each remains individually
answerable at law for his or her own actions.

III. Rights & Duties of Patria Potestas & Manus
a. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may make legal contracts and
transactions, and acquire, hold, and dispose of property and contractual
rights, benefits, and obligations, on behalf of his or her familia or
its individual members.
b. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may give or withold specific
or general consent for members of his or her familia to make legal
contracts or transactions, or acquire or dispose of property or
contractual rights, benefits, or obligations.
c. A paterfamilias or materfamilias may regulate the conduct of
members of his or her familia by means of rewards and punishments. No
officer or organ of the state shall interfere either to assist or to
prevent the imposition of punishment by a paterfamilias or materfamilias
upon a member of his or her familia.
d. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias hold(s) responsibility
for the upbringing, education, good conduct, and well-being of those in
his, her, or their potestas or manus.

IV. Legal Capacity
a. A citizen who is alieni iuris has no legal capacity to make or
witness any legal contract or transaction, or to acquire or dispose of
property or contractual rights, benefits, or obligations, except with
the explicit consent (whether specific or general) of his or her
paterfamilias or materfamilias.
b. A citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has no
legal capacity to make or witness any legal contract or transaction, or
to acquire or dispose of property or contractual rights, benefits, or
obligations, except through his or her tutor or tutrix.
c. Anyone who, having entered into such a contract or
transaction, later discovers that the other party was at the time alieni
iuris and acting without the necessary consent, has 60 days to petition
the praetores for the restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status
quo ante; if he or she does not, it is considered that he or she has
reaffirmed that contract or transaction as between himself or herself
and the paterfamilias and / or materfamilias of the original party.
d. Any paterfamilias or materfamilias who discovers that anyone
in his or her potestas or manus has entered into such a contract or
transaction without the necessary consent has 60 days to petition the
praetores for the restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status quo
ante; if he or she does not, it is considered that he or she has
reaffirmed the contract or transaction as between himself or herself and
the other party.
e. Anyone who, having entered into such a contract or
transaction, later discovers that the other party was at the time sui
iuris but below the age of 18 and not acting through his or her tutor or
tutrix, has 60 days to petition the praetores for the restoration, as
nearly as possible, of the status quo ante; if he or she does not, it is
considered that he or she has reaffirmed that contract or transaction.
f. Any tutor or tutrix who discovers that his or her pupillus or
pupilla has entered into such a contract or transaction without acting
through him or her has 60 days to petition the praetores for the
restoration, as nearly as possible, of the status quo ante; if he or she
does not, it is considered that he or she has reaffirmed the contract or
transaction.

V. Legal Action
a. A citizen who is alieni iuris may not be party to legal action
except where explicitly provided by lex, decretum, edictum, or
senatusconsultum.
b. If a citizen who is alieni iuris commits an offence, his or
her paterfamilias and / or materfamilias are liable for it; if, in such
a case, the paterfamilias' and / or materfamilias' failure to prevent
the commission of the offence was due to his or her unavoidable physical
absence, the praetor may, at his or her discretion, include in the
formula an exceptio (defence) or vis maior (insurmountable necessity).
c. If anyone commits an offence against or incurs a legal
obligation to a citizen who is alieni iuris, the latter's paterfamilias
or materfamilias may take legal action on his or her behalf.
d. A tutor or tutrix may represent and act on behalf of his or
her pupillus or pupilla in legal matters, but is not personally liable
for the offences of the pupillus or pupilla.
e. No one shall be held legally liable for any offence except one
who was legally liable at the time.

VI. Changes In Legal Status
a. A filiusfamilias or filiafamilias becomes sui iuris if he or
she is emancipated.
b. A filiusfamilias or filiafamilias becomes sui iuris if he or
she has no legal ascendant who is a citizen.
c. A wife cum manu becomes sui iuris if her marriage is dissolved.
d. A wife cum manu becomes sui iuris if her husband dies or loses
his citizenship.
e. A citizen who is alieni iuris becomes sui iuris if he or she
is or becomes a flamen, rex sacrorum, a pontifex, or a civil magistrate.
f. A paterfamilias or materfamilias becomes alieni iuris if he or
she is adopted by adrogatio.
g. A matefamilias becomes alieni iuris is she is married cum manu.

VII. Marriage
a. If two people live together with affectio maritalis (marital
affection), i.e., regarding themselves as married to one another, their
relationship is a free marriage.
b. If a male and a female citizen live together for a full year
with affectio maritalis without the woman being absent from their home
for three or more nights in a row, they may declare their relationship a
marriage cum manu contracted by usus. Without such declaration their
marriage remains a free marriage.
c. If a male and a female citizen undergo the ceremony of
coemptio in the presence of five witnesses who have the capacity to
witness legal transactions, their relationship is a marriage cum manu
contracted by coemptio.
d. If a male and a female citizen of whom one is a patrician or a
member of the collegium pontificium undergo the ceremony of confarreatio
in the presence of the pontifex maximus, their relationship is a
marriage cum manu contracted by confarreatio.
e. If two people are married to one another under the law of the
state in which they live but meet none of the criteria set out in VII.a,
b, c, or d, their relationship is a free marriage.
f. If a materfamilias marries cum manu, those in her potestas are
transferred to the potestas of her husband.

VIII. Dissolution Of Marriage
a. If a person in a free marriage notifies his or her spouse in
writing that he or she wishes the marriage to end, that marriage is
dissolved. If, however, both spouses regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as if there had been no
dissolution.
b. If a person in a free marriage contracts a new marriage in any
of the ways set out in VII, the former marriage is dissolved. If,
however, the original spouses regain affectio maritalis within a year of
the dissolution, the marriage resumes as if there had been no dissolution.
c. If a husband married cum manu by coemptio or by usus
emancipates his wife, the marriage is dissolved. If, however, the
spouses retain affectio maritalis or regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as a free marriage.
d. If a couple married cum manu by confarreatio undergoes the
ceremony of diffareatio, the marriage is dissolved. If, however, the
spouses retain affectio maritalis or regain affectio maritalis within a
year of the dissolution, the marriage resumes as a free marriage.

IX. Prohibited Marriages
a. No marriage may exist if either party is younger than 18 years.
b. No marriage may exist between a citizen and his or her legal
or biological ascendant or descendant.
c. No marriage may exist between a citizen and his or her legal
or biological collateral relative if either party is fewer than two
degrees removed from their common ascendant; except that a marriage
between adoptive collateral relatives may exist if at least one party is
sui iuris.
d. No marriage may exist between a citizen and the former spouse
of his or her legal or biological ascendant or descendant, or between a
citizens and the legal or biological ascendant or descendant of his or
her former spouse.

X. Emancipation
a. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may emancipate a
person, thus releasing him or her from potestas or manus, provided that
he, she, or they notify the praetores of the emancipation, and provided
that five witnesses who have the capacity to witness legal transactions
also notify the praetores that they bear witness.
b. A citizen who is alieni iuris and whose paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias refuses(s) to emancipate him or her may petition the
praetores; if the praetores, after consulting with the paterfamilias and
/ or materfamilias, consider the refusal unreasonable, they may declare
the petitioner sui iuris.

XI. Adoption
a. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may adopt by adrogatio
another citizen who is sui iuris provided that the adoptive parent(s) is
/ are at least 18 years older than the adopted child, and provided that
the adoptive parents(s) and the adopted child all notify the pontifex
maximus of their consent, and provided that the pontifex maximus
consents, and provided that the comitia curiata bears witness (without
right of refusal).
b. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may adopt by adoptio
another citizen who is alieni iuris provided that the adoptive parent(s)
is / are at least 18 years older than the adopted child, and provided
that the adoptive paterfamilias and / or materfamilias and the former
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias all notify the praetores of their
consent, and provided that five witnesses who have the capacity to
witness legal transactions also notify the praetores that they bear witness.
c. A citizen adopted by adrogatio becomes the legal child of the
adoptive parent(s) and passes into his, her, or their potestas, and
ceases to be the legal child relative of his or her former relatives
except those in his or her potestas or manus; anyone in the potestas or
manus of the adopted child becomes the legal descendant of the adoptive
parent(s) in whatever relationship is appropriate to the new
relationship between the adopted child and the adoptive parent(s), and
passes into the potestas of the adoptive parent(s).
d. A citizen adopted by adoptio becomes the legal child of the
adoptive parent(s) and ceases to be the legal relative of his or her
former relatives, and passes from the potestas of his or her former
paterfamilias and / or materfamilias into the potestas of the adoptive
parent(s).
e. A citizen adopted by adrogatio or by adoptio takes the name of
his or her adoptive father (or, if there is no adoptive father, the name
of his or her adoptive mother), adjusted to his or her gender as
appropriate, and adds an agnomen formed from his or her former nomen
with the ending -ianus or -iana (e.g., Salix becomes Salicianus, Equitia
becomes Equitiana). Any other relatives transferred from one familia to
another by adrogatio also change their names in the same way.

XII. Tutela
a. Any citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 must
have a tutor or tutrix (guardian); a citizen who has a tutor is referred
to as a pupillus or pupilla.
b. If a citizen is emancipated by his or her paterfamilias and /
or materfamilias, his or her former paterfamilas and / or materfamilias
is / are his or her tutor, tutrix, or tutores, unless during the
emancipation process it is explicitly stated in the notification to the
praetores and explicitly witnessed by all the witnesses that one of the
witnesses it to be tutor instead.
c. If a citizen is emancipated by the praetores, the praetores
must appoint a tutor or tutrix.
d. If a citizen becomes sui iuris on the death of his or her
paterfamilias or materfamilias, and if in a valid will the deceased has
nominated an eligible citizen as tutor or tutrix, the nominated citizen
has 30 days from the time when the will takes effect to accept the
nomination; if he or she does not, he or she is considered to have refused.
e. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
no tutor under XII.b, XII.c, or XII.d, his or her nearest eligible legal
relative is tutor or tutrix, without right of refusal; if several
eligible legal relatives are equally closely related, they are joint
tutores.
f. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
no tutor under XII.b, XII.c, XII.d, or XII.e, the praetores may appoint
a consenting eligible citizen to be tutor or tutrix.
g. If a citizen who is sui iuris but is below the age of 18 has
need of a temporary tutor or tutrix (for instance while waiting for a
tutor nominated in a will to accept, or to take legal action on behalf
of the pupillus or pupilla against the latter's regular tutor or
tutrix), the praetores may appoint a consenting eligible citizen to be
tutor or tutrix for a specified period or until a specified condition be
fulfilled.
h. To be eligible to be a tutor or tutrix a person must be a full
citizen over the age of 18, sui iuris, and not prohibited from doing so
by a court judgement of the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
i. A tutor or tutrix may make legal contracts or transactions,
and acquire, hold, and dispose of property and contractual rights,
benefits, and obligations, on behalf of his or her pupillus or pupilla,
but only in such a way as to conserve or increase the property and
contractual rights and benefits of his or her pupillus or pupilla.
k. A tutor or tutrix must make arrangements and, if necessary,
financial provision for his or her pupillus' or pupilla's education and
upbringing.
l. When a pupillus or pupilla reaches the age of 18 his or her
tutor or tutrix is relieved or his or her duties and must surrender to
the pupillus or pupilla any property or contractual rights, benefits, or
obligations acquired or held on his or her behalf.
m. If a pupillus or pupilla enters the potestas of another
citizen, his or her tutor is relieved of his or her duties and must
surrender to the new paterfamilias and / or materfamilias any property
or contractual rights, benefits, or obligations acquired or held on
behalf of the pupillus or pupilla.

XIII. Succession
a. Any citizen who is sui iuris and aged 18 or above, and who is
not prohibited from doing so by a court judgement or the ruling of a
magistrate with imperium, may make a legal will.
b. A will is invalid unless witnessed by five citizens who have
the capacity to witness legal transactions, and unless the testator was
of sound mind at the time when the will was written, and unless the will
clearly names as heir at least one citizen who is sui iuris (or becomes
sui iuris on the testator's death) and not prohibited from acting as
heir by a court judgement or the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
c. A citizen named as heir in a valid will may refuse up to 30
days after discovering that he or she has been named as heir. The will
may name another eligible citizen as secondary heir in case the primary
heir refuses, and so on indefinitely. If no heir so named accepts, the
will is invalid. A citizen who becomes sui iuris as a result of the
death of the deceased may not refuse the inheritance.
d. If a paterfamilias or materfamilias dies without leaving a
valid will, any citizens who become sui iuris as a result of the death
become heirs without right of refusal; if no citizens become sui iuris
as a result of the death, the nearest eligible legal relative(s)
become(s) heir(s), each having the right to refuse up to 30 days after
discovering that he or she is heir; if there are no eligible legal
relatives prepared to accept the inheritance, the inhertiance passes to
the gens of the deceased and may be disposed of by agreement of the
patresfamilias and matresfamilias of the gens.
e. If more than one person is heir and the will, if there is one,
does not state in what proportions they are to share the inheritance,
the inheritance is shared equally; except that if there is no valid will
and the heirs are those who have become sui iuris as a result of the
death, stirpitial representation applies as in ancient law. If one
person who is named co-heir in a will refuses the inheritance, his or
her share goes to the other heirs in proportion to their existing shares.
f. The heir(s) inherit(s) any property and contractual rights,
benefits, and obligations which were held by the deceased and within the
jurisdiction of Nova Roma, and must put into effect the instructions
given by the deceased in any valid will except any instructions which
are illegal, immoral, or impossible; and must assume responsibility for
the familial sacra of the deceased.

XIV. Remedies
a. Any citizen who has the legal capacity to take legal action
may bring an action under the lex Salicia iudiciaria, or whatever lex
shall supersede it, against a paterfamilias and / or materfamilias for
seriously and consistently failing in his, her, or their duties to his,
her, or their familias or a particular member of it. The praetor shall
direct in his or her formula that if the reus, rea, or rei be found
guilty his, her, or their familia or a particular member of it be
removed from his, her, or their potestas or manus and, if necessary,
placed under the tutela of a tutor or tutrix. The praetor may include
other penalties at his or her discretion.
b. Any citizen who who has the legal capacity to take legal
action may bring an action under the lex Salicia iuridiciaria, or
whatever lex shall supersede it, against a tutor or tutrix for failing
in his or her duties to his or her pupillus or pupilla. A pupillus or
pupilla may petition the praetores to appoint a temporary tutor or
tutrix to bring such an action on his or her behalf. The praetor shall
direct in his or her formula that if the reus be found guilty his
pupillus or pupilla be removed from his or her tutela and placed under
the tutela of another tutor or tutrix. The praetor may require the reus
or rea to make restitution for any avoidable diminution of the property
or contractual rights or benefits of the pupillus or pupilla and to meet
personally any contractual obligations incurred by the tutor or tutrix
on behalf of the pupillus or pupilla, and may include other penalties at
his or her discretion.

XV. New Citizens
a. A new citizen entering Nova Roma as the legal child of another
citizen takes that citizen's nomen and cognomen, and may choose a
praenomen and agnomina subject to the approval of his or her new legal
parent and of the magistrates tasked with citizen registration. A new
citizen entering Nova Roma as the legal child of a married citizen
couple takes the nomen and cognomen of his or her legal father, and may
choose a praenomen and agnomina subject to the approval of his or her
new legal parents and of the magistrates tasked with citizen registration.
b. A person who is the biological child of a citizen or of a
married citizen couple, or who is the legally adopted child of a citizen
or of a married citizen couple according to the law of the state in
which he or she lives, shall have the right to become a citizen as the
legal child of that citizen or married citizen couple.
c. A new citizen entering Nova Roma as a paterfamilias or
materfamilias takes the nomen appropriate to his or her gens and a
cognomen not already held by any member of that gens.

XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions
a. To have capacity to witness a legal transaction a person must
be a citizen, sui iuris, aged 18 years or above, and not prohibited from
doing so by a court judgement of the ruling of a magistrate with imperium.
b. All citizens retain those rights guaranteed in the
Constitution of Nova Roma. The rights of alieni iuris citizens may be
exercised on their behalf by their paterfamilias, materfamilias, tutor,
or tutrix, except where an alieni iuris citizen is petitioning a praetor
directly.
c. No citizen may vote in comitia for another citizen, regardless
of familial status, unless a proxy statement has been filed by the
citizen granting a voting proxy. This proxy statement must be filed with
the presiding magistrate of the comitia during the contio period prior
to the vote.
d. The praetores may clarify, supplement, and interpret this law
with reference to the relevant provisions and practices of republican
Roman law, and with reference to the principles of justice and equity,
as was done by the praetores of antiquity.

[End text of LEX EQUITIA DE FAMILIA]

The fifth law defines the jurisdiction of the praetors and provides
for provincial promagistrates to act as legal authority in legal
cases where all involved citizens reside within their province.

LEX EQVITIA DE IVRISDICTIONE

This law is enacted in order to further define the term "competence" as
used in the lex Salicia iudiciaria.

I. The praetores shall have competence to grant trial in any matter
between citizens (or in any matter between a citizen and a peregrinus or
between peregrini provided that the conditions set in the lex Salicia
poenalis article VII.B are observed), with the following exceptions:

a. The praetores shall not grant trial against a reus who is a
sitting magistrate.
b. The praetores shall not grant trial against a reus who is a
former dictator regarding any action taken by that person in the course
of his duties as dictator.

II. Whenever a praetor shall receive a petitio actionis regarding which
he is forbidden by this lex from granting trial, he shall dismiss the
petitio actionis under the lex Salicia iudiciaria article II.a.

III. The governor of a provincia shall have competence to grant trial in
any matter between citizens who live in that provincia (or in any matter
between a citizen and a peregrinus who both live in that provincia or
between peregrini who both live in that provincia provided that the
conditions set in the lex Salicia poenalis article VII.B are observed).

a. In such cases, all laws concerning the administration of
justice shall apply as usual, any reference to the praetor or the
praetores being construed as referring to the governor.
b. Should the praetores receive any petitio actionis concerning a
matter which is between two citizens who live in the same provincia, or
between a citizen and a peregrinus who live in the same provincia, or
between two peregrini who live in the same provincia, they shall pass
the petitio to the governor of that provincia.
c. Should a petitio submitted to a governor be dismissed by that
governor, or should the governor fail to respond to such a petitio
within 120 hours (5 days) of its submission, the petitioner may submit
the same petitio to the praetores, and the praetores may deal with the
petitio as under the lex Salicia iudiciaria and all other relevant laws.

[End text of LEX EQVITIA DE IVRISDICTIONE]


=================================================================

The presidium shall be Fabia (Tribe I).

Schedule for the Contio and vote:

22 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio begins at dawn Roma time
23 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
24 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
25 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
26 Septembris (dies comitialis) Contio continues
27 Septembris (dies comitialis) At dawn (06:00) Roma time contio ends
and voting begins
28 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
29 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
30 Septembris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
1 Octobris (dies nefastus) Voting suspended at 00:01 Roma time
2 Octobris (dies fastus) Voting suspended
3 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting resumes at 00:01 Roma time
4 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting continues
5 Octobris (dies comitialis) Voting ends at dusk (18:00) Roma time


Please note that the time in Roma is Central European Time (CET), which
is six hours later than Eastern Standard Time in the United States, and
one hour later than Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).


Valete Quirites,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Consul

MAGNA MATER PROJECT BULLETIN SEPTEMBER 2757 A.U.C.

_____________________________________________________________________________

"Who is the Mother of the Gods? She is the source of the intellectual and creative Gods, who in their turn guide the Visible Gods; she is both the Mother and the Spouse of Mighty Zeus; she came into being next and together with the Great Creator; she is in control of every form of life and the course of all generations; she easily brings to perfection all things that are made; without pain she brings to birth; She is the Motherless Maiden, enthroned at the very side of Zeus, and in very truth is the Mother of All the Gods....."
................................Emperor Julian II 'The Blessed' , from an Oration to Cybele composed at Pessinus MCXVI A.V.C. (1116 years Ab Urb Condita)

__________________________________________________________________________

I. Magna Mater General Plan

Listed below are the general goals being worked on to the achieve our overall objectives of the Magna Mater Project:

i. Official Website

A draft of the graphics and infrastructure has been presented to Aedilis Marcus Iulianus Perusianus and forwarded to the website deign company, INFORMA SCARL. The design has received official approval of the Curule Aedile and we are very close to making the website a reality.



ii. Material to Promote This Project
....leaflets
....publications
....business cards
....DVD:
Good news! Filming of portions of the content for the DVD has recently been accomplished in both Sauvo, Finland, and in Villadose, Italy, during the Mercato della Centuriazione (see more on this event below). More content is going to be filmed in Rome within the next two months.There are plans for a movie shoot in the Vallis Murcia, in the Forum Boarium and on the banks of the river Almo (nowadays only a little creek). The first version of the product is expected to be completed at the beginning of next year. Much has yet to be discussed with respect to the most desired distribution/marketing avenues, but we will keep you abreast of any new developments.

iii. A 6-month scholarship for a student of the University of Rome (est. 6,000 Euros)

iv. Multimedia CD ROM
There are three viable options:
a) simple CD of presentation of the Project (10-50 pictures, 5-20 text pages, 100-1000 copies)
b) generic content CD (100-200 pictures, 25-70 text pages, music and audio effects, 3-D animations, more than 1000 copies)
c) professional CD (cost would be higher than the above: pictures, some with reserved rights, 2 or 3 experts in the multimedia field)

__________________________________________________________________________

II. COHORS AEDILES WEBSITE

**Please note an address change: Marcus Iulius Perusianus, Curule Aedile, has a new email address: M_Iulius@... (formerly Virgilio.it). Please feel free to contact him with any questions, ideas or concerns regarding the Magna Mater Project or other affairs with the jurisdiction of this Magisterium.

The address MagnaMater@... remains available as well.

Please visit http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus for a detailed look at the work of the Cohors and the Magna Mater Project.
____________________________

***Call for Volunteers***

Caius Curius Saturninus, Webmaster for the Magna Mater Project has recently been appointed as Chief of Editorial Staff for the Project by the Curule Aedile. He is seeking volunteers to work with him, specifically 2-3 graphic designers and 1-2 webpage compilers.

Graphic Designer Duties

The most suitable candidate will work as Art Director for the graphic design of the project. His/her duties are specially tailored according to his/her experience and preferences. Other graphic designers work under his/her instructions. There will be graphic design required for atleast, but not limited to, the following types of products: web banners, website, DVD menu and covers, T-shirts and other merchandise (such as mouse pads, coffee mugs, etc.) business cards and other identity material (such as envelopes).

Graphic Designers' Requirements

Some experience in the field of graphic design (electronic or print media) ..the following programs are recommended, but not necessarily needed (and any applicant can suggest his/her alternative choices): Adobe Photoshop, Macromedia Freehand, Macromedia Fireworks. Skills in the field of animation, 3D modeling and skinning, video/movie visuals, as well as print media are appreciated but not a firm requirement.

Web Compiler Duties

Produced material has to be compiled into proper html or similar kind of webpublishing format and updated to the website.

Webpage Compiler Requirements

Knowhow of html and/or other similar kinds of webpublishing formats. It is also possible to use compiler programs like Adobe GoLive or Macromedia Dreamweaver

For more information on these positions please contact C. Curius Saturninus @ C.Curius@...

______________________________


Ludi Romani News

Congratulations to the winner of the Chariot Race of the just-concluded Ludi Romani, H. Rutilius Bardulius...Ave Victor!! The Cohort wishes to thank Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus for his hard work in hosting this successful event.

Congratulations are also extended to the winners of our Historical Photographic contest, hosted by Aedile Perusianus. They are H. Rutillius Bardulius and D. Constantinus Fuscus.

In our Cultural Contest, hosted by M. Iulius Sulla, Quaestor et Cohor Aedilis, our winner was Livia Iulia Drusilla. Congrats, Iulia!

Our thanks to those of the Cohort who helped organize these events and to all participants who made this an enjoyable and successful undertaking. Ave!

__________________________________________________________________________


III. THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

During the last few weeks, many questions have materialized about the Magna Mater Project, on the mainlist and on other forums. The Curule Aedile wishes to thank Senator et Tribunis F. Apulus Caesar and Flamen Cerealis F. Galerius Tiberius Aurelianus for their help in answering some of these questions while the Aedile was vacationing during the summer. For the benefit of those still curious about certain aspects of the project, here is an FAQ List, with answers from Marcus Iulius Perusianus himself.

???COULD SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME THE PURPOSE OF THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT???

The ultimate goal is the restoration of the temple, but this is honestly very long term, especially when one takes into account our current financial situation. But even having money, there are several other small, but necessary steps which are already under develpment to 'restore' the temple, in a wider significance of the meaning. To restore it also means to 'valorize' the sancturary, its historical and archaeological aspects, the significance of the cult of the Magna Mater. Put another way, 'enhancing' would be perhaps a better term for these first steps of the Project.

It's become a duty of my Aedileship and my Cohors to send a monthly bulletin to explain to all the NR citizens what the purpose of this project is, both in the short term and in the long run, and to report on the progress we have made.

More details at:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus/magnamater2.html


????HOW ARE DONATIONS FRM NOVA ROMA UTILIZED IN THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT???

Consider this list of things to do in the near future (as part of the MM project):
i. official website
II. material to promote this project (leaflets publications, DVD with topographical introduction to the location, archaeological remains and evidences, history of the Sanctuary of the Cult of Cybele in Rome
iii. a six-month scholarship for a student of the University of Rome
iv. multimedia CD Rom (see section I of bulletin to review details)

???WHAT IS THE RETURN ON THIS INVESTMENT? WHY IS THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT SO IMPORTANT???

It is important because it permits NR to spread its name into the academic world, and provides the mechanism by which we may be entitiled to manage Roman monuments. It's an opportunity to make our name known in the macronational, physical world, after having done so much in the virtual, electronic world.

???WILL NOVA ROMA EVER BE ALLOWED TO HOLD RITUAL THERE TO MAGNA MATER???

A certain number of NR citizens were able to visit the proximity of the temple this past April, courtesy of a special pass by the Soprintendenza Archaeologica of Rome (the entire south-west side of the Palatine, the Germalus, has been closed for the past 5-7 years). We were accompanied by a guardian for almost the entire visit, and at our tour of the house of Augustus, I guess a very simple rite could have been held. I believe that a longer than 5 minute ceremony, with an attendance of more than 10-15 people, would hardly be tolerated. I am not talking about 'religious' intolerance; it is just a question of security. Soprintendenza is working in the Germalus areas, and it is not easy to attain permission to enter. Honestly, I think to have a ritual there is currently quite impossible. Mind you, I am only speaking of what I foresee during my Aedileship.

???WHAT HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE DO THE TREES CURRENTLY GROWING ON TOP OF THE MM SANCTUARY HOLD? WHY ARE THEY MORE HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT THAN THE RESTORATION OF ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT TEMPLE SITES OF ROME???

I have asked this of the manager of the Palatine ruins. Currently, it is deemed a useless effort to cut these environmentally and historically protected trees, as the only part of the structure remaining is the basement of the temple (not considering the short remains of a couple of columns). We won't have a better view of the bricks with the presence of these trees, which have been there for some centuries. The general guidelines of the Soprintendenza Archaeologica of Rome is to maintain the monuments as they are, unless there is original material of the structure to position in their respective places. And, even when these materials are found, it takes alot of time to study exactly where they fit. It is a matter of academic official opinion that not a single reconstruction effort can be made without appropriate archaeological evidence to support such action.

__________________________________________________________________________


IV. FINANCIAL STATUS AND FUNDRAISING

Many thanks to Gaius Moravius Laureatus Amoricus, Quaestor Suffectus of the Magna Mater Project, for his hard work in updating our financial spreadsheet. Our financial totals, as reported by him on September 23 are as follows:

1,439.69 USD or 1,168.10 EUROS, accounting for monetary conversions as of this date.

Fundraising Efforts

A committee for Fund Raising Efforts has been established for the Magna Mater Project, and is comprised of the following citizens:

P. Minucia Tiberia Strabo
G. Equitius Marinus, Consul
S. Equitius Mercurius Troianus
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana, Propraetrix

Would you like to help out in this regard, even with the lending of a few ideas? For more information on taking part in this committee, please write P. Minucia Tiberia Strabo, @ Pompeia_Minucia_Tiberia@...

_______________________

For information on how you could link your website to ours and help promote donations to the Magna Mater Fund this way, please contact our Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus @
M_Iulius@...

__________________________________________________________________________


V. PROMOTION OF THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT

Propraetor Italia Manius Constantinus Serapio, et Curule Aedile Marcus Iulius Perusianus were privileged to hold a presentation of Nova Roma and the Magna Mater Project at a rather prominent Roman Reenactment and Archaeological Festival in Italia Provincia, known as "Mercato Della Centuriazione", held in Villadose, Italy. This year's festival took place the weekend of Sept. 3 to 5.

The festival entails a rather comprehensive display of Roman Markets, Roman encampments with military reenactors, ancient music, dance, food and drink, and of course, the Ludi, with javelin-throwing competitions, et al.

The president of the Villadose Archaeological Group and the Mayor of Villadose took the time to congratulate our Curule Aedile and Propraetor on their much appreciated and enlightening efforts in explaining the objectives of the Magna Mater Project and Nova Roma herself.

For those who are still curious about this festival, here's a link for more information:

http://www.centuriazione.it/mercato/english.html

____________________________Fini

















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Salve G. Equitius Marinus Consul:

A round of personal applause to both you and your team of assistants
in the compilation of the obviously labourious task entailing the
compilaton/revision/retweaking/historical repair (whatever the case)
of the proposed laws you present.

I am particularily pleased to see the Family Law. Overall, aside
from some nitpicky things I indicated to you earlier, which are
really a matter of linguistics, I find it very historical, and
constitutional,detailing quite throughly the functions of
mater/paterfamlia, the roles of filiae, and the legalities pertinent
to such. It also gives the option of reconstruction of marriage from
antiquita,all yielded of course by the protective checks and
balances of the constitution and pursuant laws, including
macronational law.

I dabbled in this area of study when I was involved in Gens Reforms
discussions, enough to know that the essence of the research
involves alot of legal terminology describing one's relationship to
one's pater/husband/filiae, etc. Very mindboggling in spots, and so
I think you all have done just great in weeding through all of this
to provide us with, what I feel is an excellent package of what is
likely the most important element of the via Romana, outside the
spiritual/religious component, and that is the familia.

AVE!
Pompeia

Make the losing side pay the fees? Not bad it might keep out half the ridiculous lawsuits that lawyers thrive on. Sorry bout the sterotyping andyone in alw but just my perception. Vale, QCB


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Attn: All Citizens of Nova Roma,

While I have been engaged much in the recent debates regarding the Religio, there is something that has caught up with me. What has caught up with me is a clear lack of judgement, negligence, and irresponsibility. I have been informed and admitted my guilt in having multiple names in Nova Roma. Those names that are associated with my natural birth name are Quintus Cornelius Caesar, Quintus Meridius Brutus, Quintus Cassius, and Quintus Aemilius Laetus. I have misled my Pater Marcus Cassius Julianus not once but twice. I have also misled the other Pater's involved in this affair.

The fact that I have multiple identities within Nova Roma raises serious questions about voting. Most importantly is did I use these accounts to engage in fraudulent behavior to impact the result of a vote. The answer to that is most definitely no. I at no time voted using multiple identities to impact any vote. This then makes one ask why then the muliple identities?

The answer to that is simple. Since this involves all citizens an explanation is due. When I initially became a citizen on 09-25-01 I was in college. The workload eventually took up more and more of my time and I was unable to be as active a member as I would have liked to. Eventually my yahoo account for the Cornelia citizenship became inaccessible. I also forgot my password to my citizen's page. So I took the lazy man's route of creating another identity. However, due to college this laid the grounds for a repetitious pattern. This is why there exist mulitple identities attached to my natural name.

I however, am now finished with college and do have the time to contribute towards being an active citizen within the Nova Roma community. I did not wish to create such problems for Nova Roma. However, after having the extent of my negligence explained to me when the charges were layed out against me I now understand how far reaching my irresponsibility has gone. It not only violates the law of Nova Roma but also has more far-reaching consequences that could have created legal problems for myself as well as Nova Roma. For this all I can do is say that I am sorry. My actions should be shunned and frowned upon. I hope with time that each citizen can forgive me. But for all the problems I have created sorry is not enough. Words are meaninglesswithout the actions to support them. So as time goes by I hope you all individually can forgive me for my irresponsibility, negligence, and deceit.
Vale, Quintus Cassius Brutus


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A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.

Since I was one of those who worked on the proposed
léx dé familiá, and since I have the time to spare, I
thought I'd try to give you a summary of the law and a
little of the thinking behind it. I'm afraid even this
summary is fairly long, but hopefully it ought to be
easier than the law itself. Of course I advise you
read the text itself before you vote, but reading this
first may help you to understand the text more
quickly.

So, here's a brief(ish) explanation of the léx Equitia
dé familiá.

What this law does is, in essence, to bring the family
law of Nova Róma into line with Roman family law. It
completes the reform begun by last year's léx Labiena
dé géntibus. It ensures that patrésfamilíás and
mátrésfamiliás will be treated as real parents, with
the appropriate rights and responsibilities. It also
protects the rights of all the members of familiae. In
all, it brings the social structures and the whole
society of Nova Róma closer to that of ancient Rome.
I'll go through it article by article, summarizing
what each article does and explaining the historical
basis and any departures from historical accuracy.

I. Legal Status

In Roman law, everyone was either a paterfamiliás or
in the potestás of a paterfamiliás. Patrésfamiliás
were suí júris, which means they had the full set of
legal rights and could buy and sell property, sign
contracts, and so on. Other people were aliéní júris,
which meant that they were under the power and the
protection of a paterfamiliás, who looked after them
and acted on their behalf when they needed to do
things which only a paterfamiliás could do.

At the moment, Nova Róma allows people who are not
patrésfamiliás or mátrésfamiliás to be suí júris,
which in Roman law is a nonsensical idea. This has
already caused some problems, and more problems will
arise as Nova Róma grows and more and more citizens
have families. So this law restores the principle that
only a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can be suí
júris. What this means in practice will become clear
later.

II. Familiae

A familia was a household - not quite the same as a
family, though many people in the same familia would
also have been in the same family. A familia was a
paterfamiliás and everyone who was in his potestás. A
man would normally have potestás over his children,
and their children, and so on. He would also have
potestás over his wife if he had married her in one of
the more old-fashioned ways (more on this later). But
he wouldn't have potestás over any of his children
whom he had emancipated (more on that later), or any
of his daughters who had got married in the
old-fashioned way. No one could be in the potestás of
more than one person.

This law restores these principles too. The only
difference is that in Nova Róma a woman can be a
máterfamiliás, and can have potestás over her own
children. This raises a problem: who has potestás over
the children of a married couple? This law solves that
problem by allowing a married couple to have joint
potestás, as if they were a single person. This is,
perhaps, a slightly un-Roman solution, but it is, at
seems, the best way to solve the problem without
abandoning the principle of equality between men and
women.

III. Rights & Duties of Patria Potestás & Manus

In Roman law, there were many things that a person who
was aliéní júris (i.e., someone who was not a
paterfamiliás) could not do. It wouldn't be practical
or desirable to bring all those restrictions back in
Nova Róma, but this law restores some of them. If a
person who is aliéní júris wants to buy or sell
anything, or make a legal contract, he or she has to
get permission from his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás. But this could, of course, be rather
impractical, so this law allows patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás to give general permission - i.e. they
can say "I give you permission to buy and sell
whatever you like, whenever you like". And in
practice, I expect this is what most patrésfamiliás
and mátrésfamiliás will do.

But of course a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will
have responsibilities as well. He or she will be
responsible for raising and educating the people in
his or her potestás, and for making sure they behave
well (using, if they wish, rewards or punishments). If
they fail to do these things adequately, it may result
in them losing potestás over those people. So this law
leaves people who are aliéní júris much better off
than they were in Roman law; and it also gives to
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás their historical
rights and duties, which Nova Róma has previously
denied them.

IV. Legal Capacity

Since people who are aliéní júris are unable to make
contracts without the agreement of their paterfamiliás
or máterfamiliás, there need to be rules to say what
happens if one does make a contract. This article
contains those rules. They give the paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás a chance to cancel the contract, and
they give the same chance to whoever the contract was
made with. If neither side wants to back out, the
contract remains valid.

V. Legal Action

Another thing a person who is aliéní júris can't do,
both in Roman law and in this proposed law, is to
appear in court. Their paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás
will be able to take legal action on their behalf, so
their legal rights remain fully protected. Also, a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will be held
responsible for anything illegal which anyone in his
or her potestás does, since it is his or her
responsibility to ensure that those in his or her
potestás behave properly. However, in order to avoid
unfairness, the praetórés will be allowed to excuse
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás if there was
genuinely nothing he or she could have done to prevent
it.

VI. Changes In Legal Status

This article explains how people who are aliéní júris
can become suí júris, and how people who are suí júris
can become aliéní júris. These various ways are all
precisely the same as in Roman law. Some of them are
self-explanatory; others, like emancipation, will be
dealt with later.

VII. Marriage

Roman law was very reluctant to interfere in people's
private lives, so Roman marriage law is very liberal.
If people live together and consider themselves
married, they are considered married by Roman law -
nice and simple; and the same applies in this law.
This type of marriage was called a free marriage.
There were some more old-fashioned forms of marriage
which survived, but became less popular during the
republic. These are called manus-marriages, because
the wife was in the manus (which is similar to the
potestás) of her husband, and was not suí júris. There
were three different ways to make a manus-marriage,
and these are explained in this article.

VIII. Dissolution Of Marriage

This article explains the ways in which marriages can
come to an end. Again, the law is liberal - a free
marriage can be ended just by either spouse telling
the other one that it's over. Manus-marriages are a
bit harder to get out of, and this article explains
the ways in which they can be ended, and the ways in
which they can be made into free marriages.

IX. Prohibited Marriages

As one would expect, Roman law didn't accept some
types of marriage - marriages between siblings or
first cousins, for instance, were not allowed. Nor
could a person marry the child or parent of his or her
ex-spouse; and also people had to be at least 18 to
get married. All these Roman rules are contained in
this law, precisely as they were in Roman law during
the republic.

X. Emancipation

Apart from the death of his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, emancipation is the only way a person
who is aliéní júris can become suí júris. In Roman law
it was a complicated process for which the praetor had
to be present in person. This law simplifies it a
little, but preserves the main point. The main point
is that a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can tell the
praetor that he wants to emancipate the person
concerned, and as long as he can get five witnesses,
it's done.

In Roman law, no one could emancipate himself. But in
the interests of fairness, this law creates a way in
which this can happen. If someone's paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás refuses to emancipate him or her, he or
she can go the praetor directly. The praetor talks to
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás, and decides
whether he thinks the refusal is unreasonable. If it
is, he can emancipate the person himself. Though this
is not directly historical, it is similar to a rule
created by Augustus which said that if a paterfamiliás
unreasonably refused to let his son or daughter get
married, the praetor could overrule him - so although
this is not a Roman solution, it is certainly the sort
of solution the Romans would have come up with.

XI. Adoption

At the moment, the ways in which people can move from
géns to géns and familia to familia are not well
defined. This article restores the Roman rules of
adoption, which is the only way people can move from
one géns and familiae to another. There were two types
of adoption: adrogátió for people who are suí júris,
and adoptió for people who aren't. The rules for each
of these are set out in this article. Adrogátió is an
important and serious matter because it will often
mean the end of a familia and therefore also the end
of that familia's religious traditions, so adrogátió
requires the agreement of the pontifex máximus.
Adoptiío is simpler, and requires only five witnesses.
This article also contains various other rules
regarding adoption. All of them are historically
accurate.

XII. Tútela

It can sometimes happen that someone can be suí júris
but under 18 years old. According to Roman law, any
person of this kind has to have a tútor or tútrix. A
tútor or tútrix has less power than a paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, but can still do what he or she needs
to do to look after the interests of the person
concerned until his or her 18th birthday. Roman law
had various complicated rules about how to work out
who ought to be tútor, and those rules are accurately
reproduced in this article, with a couple of very
minor changes (such as reducing some of the time
limits, since communications are faster these days).
It also contains the rules (again the same as in Roman
law) which allow a tútor to be removed if he fails in
his duties.

XIII. Succession

This article contains some rules, almost precisely the
same as in Roman law, about wills and inheritance.
Most of these won't be used very often, but it's
important to have them mostly to ensure that familial
religious traditions are preserved. These rules
explain who becomes heir when another person dies, and
whoever becomes heir is responsible for continuing
those religious traditions. So this article is
primarily of religious importance, though wills can be
used to pass on property as well, and in any case
Roman wills were often used to deliver a final message
to one's friends and relatives, which is a Roman
tradition worth preserving.

XIV. Remedies

The Twelve Tables contained a rule that a
paterfamiliás who went mad could have his familiae
taken away from him and placed under the care of a
tútor. This article expands on that rule, allowing it
to go into effect not only when the paterfamiliás is
mad but also if he consistently and serious fails in
his duties toward those in his care. This will not be
casually done, because the issue has to be considered
intially by the praetor and then decided by a panel of
júdicés. However, it does provide an important
protection for people who are aliéní júris, and an
important way to make sure that patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás behave responsibly.

XV. New Citizens

This article is obviously partly modern, but is based
on Roman principles. It contains rules about the
status and names of people joining Nova Róma,
depending on whether they join existing familiae or
start new ones. It also guarantees the children of
citizens the right to join Nova Róma as members of the
familia of their parents.

XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions

This article contains a few different things. It
defines who can act as a witness for the purposes of
the law, and gives guidance about how the law is to be
interpreted. It also restates the fact that people who
are aliéní júris keep their constitutional rights, and
their ability to access them through their
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás, except that a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can't vote for anyone
else unless the usual procedures are observed.

And that's the end of the law. Thanks for reading. :)





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A. Apollonius Cordus rogátor omnibus sal.

This is just a reminder that voting in the comitia
centuriáta and in the comitia populí tribúta will
begin in a little less than five hours, at 06:00 Roman
time. Everyone can vote simultaneously. There will be
no sequential voting.

Polls will remain open until 18:00 Roman time on the
5th of October, which will be a Tuesday. I'll remind
you about that nearer the time.

On the 1st and 2nd of October (Friday and Saturday)
voting will be suspended for religious reasons. My
colleagues and I will not count any votes cast on
these two days.

We will post notices alerting you to any votes cast
incorrectly, so that you can vote again. Please check
regularly for these notices. We will post the tracking
number of any incorrect votes. The tracking number is
given to you by the web-cista after you submit your
vote. Please make a note of that tracking number so
you can tell whether our notices concern you.

If in doubt, vote again. And if you have any
questions, please don't hesitate to ask me or my
colleagues, either privately or on this list.





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Can we crucify him; I haven't seen a good crucifixion since...well never. If
we can't then I'll just forgive him.



Vale

Tiberius Arcanus Agricola

mikeabboud@...



_____

From: Quintus Cassius Brutus [mailto:quintus_cassius@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 2:25 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ATTN: ALL CITIZENS: Apology



Attn: All Citizens of Nova Roma,

While I have been engaged much in the recent debates regarding the
Religio, there is something that has caught up with me. What has caught up
with me is a clear lack of judgement, negligence, and irresponsibility. I
have been informed and admitted my guilt in having multiple names in Nova
Roma. Those names that are associated with my natural birth name are
Quintus Cornelius Caesar, Quintus Meridius Brutus, Quintus Cassius, and
Quintus Aemilius Laetus. I have misled my Pater Marcus Cassius Julianus not
once but twice. I have also misled the other Pater's involved in this
affair.

The fact that I have multiple identities within Nova Roma raises
serious questions about voting. Most importantly is did I use these
accounts to engage in fraudulent behavior to impact the result of a vote.
The answer to that is most definitely no. I at no time voted using multiple
identities to impact any vote. This then makes one ask why then the muliple
identities?

The answer to that is simple. Since this involves all citizens an
explanation is due. When I initially became a citizen on 09-25-01 I was in
college. The workload eventually took up more and more of my time and I was
unable to be as active a member as I would have liked to. Eventually my
yahoo account for the Cornelia citizenship became inaccessible. I also
forgot my password to my citizen's page. So I took the lazy man's route of
creating another identity. However, due to college this laid the grounds
for a repetitious pattern. This is why there exist mulitple identities
attached to my natural name.

I however, am now finished with college and do have the time to
contribute towards being an active citizen within the Nova Roma community.
I did not wish to create such problems for Nova Roma. However, after having
the extent of my negligence explained to me when the charges were layed out
against me I now understand how far reaching my irresponsibility has gone.
It not only violates the law of Nova Roma but also has more far-reaching
consequences that could have created legal problems for myself as well as
Nova Roma. For this all I can do is say that I am sorry. My actions should
be shunned and frowned upon. I hope with time that each citizen can forgive
me. But for all the problems I have created sorry is not enough. Words are
meaninglesswithout the actions to support them. So as time goes by I hope
you all individually can forgive me for my irresponsibility, negligence, and
deceit.
Vale, Quintus Cassius Brutus


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe the Romans allowed Females to be married as young as 13. Men
usually didnÂ’t marry until mid 20 or early 30s



Vale

Tiberius Arcanus Agricola

mikeabboud@...



_____

From: A. Apollonius Cordus [mailto:a_apollonius_cordus@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:12 PM
To: Main List
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The proposed léx Equitia dé familiá



A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.

Since I was one of those who worked on the proposed
léx dé familiá, and since I have the time to spare, I
thought I'd try to give you a summary of the law and a
little of the thinking behind it. I'm afraid even this
summary is fairly long, but hopefully it ought to be
easier than the law itself. Of course I advise you
read the text itself before you vote, but reading this
first may help you to understand the text more
quickly.

So, here's a brief(ish) explanation of the léx Equitia
dé familiá.

What this law does is, in essence, to bring the family
law of Nova Róma into line with Roman family law. It
completes the reform begun by last year's léx Labiena
dé géntibus. It ensures that patrésfamilíás and
mátrésfamiliás will be treated as real parents, with
the appropriate rights and responsibilities. It also
protects the rights of all the members of familiae. In
all, it brings the social structures and the whole
society of Nova Róma closer to that of ancient Rome.
I'll go through it article by article, summarizing
what each article does and explaining the historical
basis and any departures from historical accuracy.

I. Legal Status

In Roman law, everyone was either a paterfamiliás or
in the potestás of a paterfamiliás. Patrésfamiliás
were suí júris, which means they had the full set of
legal rights and could buy and sell property, sign
contracts, and so on. Other people were aliéní júris,
which meant that they were under the power and the
protection of a paterfamiliás, who looked after them
and acted on their behalf when they needed to do
things which only a paterfamiliás could do.

At the moment, Nova Róma allows people who are not
patrésfamiliás or mátrésfamiliás to be suí júris,
which in Roman law is a nonsensical idea. This has
already caused some problems, and more problems will
arise as Nova Róma grows and more and more citizens
have families. So this law restores the principle that
only a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can be suí
júris. What this means in practice will become clear
later.

II. Familiae

A familia was a household - not quite the same as a
family, though many people in the same familia would
also have been in the same family. A familia was a
paterfamiliás and everyone who was in his potestás. A
man would normally have potestás over his children,
and their children, and so on. He would also have
potestás over his wife if he had married her in one of
the more old-fashioned ways (more on this later). But
he wouldn't have potestás over any of his children
whom he had emancipated (more on that later), or any
of his daughters who had got married in the
old-fashioned way. No one could be in the potestás of
more than one person.

This law restores these principles too. The only
difference is that in Nova Róma a woman can be a
máterfamiliás, and can have potestás over her own
children. This raises a problem: who has potestás over
the children of a married couple? This law solves that
problem by allowing a married couple to have joint
potestás, as if they were a single person. This is,
perhaps, a slightly un-Roman solution, but it is, at
seems, the best way to solve the problem without
abandoning the principle of equality between men and
women.

III. Rights & Duties of Patria Potestás & Manus

In Roman law, there were many things that a person who
was aliéní júris (i.e., someone who was not a
paterfamiliás) could not do. It wouldn't be practical
or desirable to bring all those restrictions back in
Nova Róma, but this law restores some of them. If a
person who is aliéní júris wants to buy or sell
anything, or make a legal contract, he or she has to
get permission from his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás. But this could, of course, be rather
impractical, so this law allows patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás to give general permission - i.e. they
can say "I give you permission to buy and sell
whatever you like, whenever you like". And in
practice, I expect this is what most patrésfamiliás
and mátrésfamiliás will do.

But of course a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will
have responsibilities as well. He or she will be
responsible for raising and educating the people in
his or her potestás, and for making sure they behave
well (using, if they wish, rewards or punishments). If
they fail to do these things adequately, it may result
in them losing potestás over those people. So this law
leaves people who are aliéní júris much better off
than they were in Roman law; and it also gives to
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás their historical
rights and duties, which Nova Róma has previously
denied them.

IV. Legal Capacity

Since people who are aliéní júris are unable to make
contracts without the agreement of their paterfamiliás
or máterfamiliás, there need to be rules to say what
happens if one does make a contract. This article
contains those rules. They give the paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás a chance to cancel the contract, and
they give the same chance to whoever the contract was
made with. If neither side wants to back out, the
contract remains valid.

V. Legal Action

Another thing a person who is aliéní júris can't do,
both in Roman law and in this proposed law, is to
appear in court. Their paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás
will be able to take legal action on their behalf, so
their legal rights remain fully protected. Also, a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will be held
responsible for anything illegal which anyone in his
or her potestás does, since it is his or her
responsibility to ensure that those in his or her
potestás behave properly. However, in order to avoid
unfairness, the praetórés will be allowed to excuse
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás if there was
genuinely nothing he or she could have done to prevent
it.

VI. Changes In Legal Status

This article explains how people who are aliéní júris
can become suí júris, and how people who are suí júris
can become aliéní júris. These various ways are all
precisely the same as in Roman law. Some of them are
self-explanatory; others, like emancipation, will be
dealt with later.

VII. Marriage

Roman law was very reluctant to interfere in people's
private lives, so Roman marriage law is very liberal.
If people live together and consider themselves
married, they are considered married by Roman law -
nice and simple; and the same applies in this law.
This type of marriage was called a free marriage.
There were some more old-fashioned forms of marriage
which survived, but became less popular during the
republic. These are called manus-marriages, because
the wife was in the manus (which is similar to the
potestás) of her husband, and was not suí júris. There
were three different ways to make a manus-marriage,
and these are explained in this article.

VIII. Dissolution Of Marriage

This article explains the ways in which marriages can
come to an end. Again, the law is liberal - a free
marriage can be ended just by either spouse telling
the other one that it's over. Manus-marriages are a
bit harder to get out of, and this article explains
the ways in which they can be ended, and the ways in
which they can be made into free marriages.

IX. Prohibited Marriages

As one would expect, Roman law didn't accept some
types of marriage - marriages between siblings or
first cousins, for instance, were not allowed. Nor
could a person marry the child or parent of his or her
ex-spouse; and also people had to be at least 18 to
get married. All these Roman rules are contained in
this law, precisely as they were in Roman law during
the republic.

X. Emancipation

Apart from the death of his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, emancipation is the only way a person
who is aliéní júris can become suí júris. In Roman law
it was a complicated process for which the praetor had
to be present in person. This law simplifies it a
little, but preserves the main point. The main point
is that a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can tell the
praetor that he wants to emancipate the person
concerned, and as long as he can get five witnesses,
it's done.

In Roman law, no one could emancipate himself. But in
the interests of fairness, this law creates a way in
which this can happen. If someone's paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás refuses to emancipate him or her, he or
she can go the praetor directly. The praetor talks to
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás, and decides
whether he thinks the refusal is unreasonable. If it
is, he can emancipate the person himself. Though this
is not directly historical, it is similar to a rule
created by Augustus which said that if a paterfamiliás
unreasonably refused to let his son or daughter get
married, the praetor could overrule him - so although
this is not a Roman solution, it is certainly the sort
of solution the Romans would have come up with.

XI. Adoption

At the moment, the ways in which people can move from
géns to géns and familia to familia are not well
defined. This article restores the Roman rules of
adoption, which is the only way people can move from
one géns and familiae to another. There were two types
of adoption: adrogátió for people who are suí júris,
and adoptió for people who aren't. The rules for each
of these are set out in this article. Adrogátió is an
important and serious matter because it will often
mean the end of a familia and therefore also the end
of that familia's religious traditions, so adrogátió
requires the agreement of the pontifex máximus.
Adoptiío is simpler, and requires only five witnesses.
This article also contains various other rules
regarding adoption. All of them are historically
accurate.

XII. Tútela

It can sometimes happen that someone can be suí júris
but under 18 years old. According to Roman law, any
person of this kind has to have a tútor or tútrix. A
tútor or tútrix has less power than a paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, but can still do what he or she needs
to do to look after the interests of the person
concerned until his or her 18th birthday. Roman law
had various complicated rules about how to work out
who ought to be tútor, and those rules are accurately
reproduced in this article, with a couple of very
minor changes (such as reducing some of the time
limits, since communications are faster these days).
It also contains the rules (again the same as in Roman
law) which allow a tútor to be removed if he fails in
his duties.

XIII. Succession

This article contains some rules, almost precisely the
same as in Roman law, about wills and inheritance.
Most of these won't be used very often, but it's
important to have them mostly to ensure that familial
religious traditions are preserved. These rules
explain who becomes heir when another person dies, and
whoever becomes heir is responsible for continuing
those religious traditions. So this article is
primarily of religious importance, though wills can be
used to pass on property as well, and in any case
Roman wills were often used to deliver a final message
to one's friends and relatives, which is a Roman
tradition worth preserving.

XIV. Remedies

The Twelve Tables contained a rule that a
paterfamiliás who went mad could have his familiae
taken away from him and placed under the care of a
tútor. This article expands on that rule, allowing it
to go into effect not only when the paterfamiliás is
mad but also if he consistently and serious fails in
his duties toward those in his care. This will not be
casually done, because the issue has to be considered
intially by the praetor and then decided by a panel of
júdicés. However, it does provide an important
protection for people who are aliéní júris, and an
important way to make sure that patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás behave responsibly.

XV. New Citizens

This article is obviously partly modern, but is based
on Roman principles. It contains rules about the
status and names of people joining Nova Róma,
depending on whether they join existing familiae or
start new ones. It also guarantees the children of
citizens the right to join Nova Róma as members of the
familia of their parents.

XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions

This article contains a few different things. It
defines who can act as a witness for the purposes of
the law, and gives guidance about how the law is to be
interpreted. It also restates the fact that people who
are aliéní júris keep their constitutional rights, and
their ability to access them through their
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás, except that a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can't vote for anyone
else unless the usual procedures are observed.

And that's the end of the law. Thanks for reading. :)





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I should probably have read through everything before so now it looks like a
lot of nit pick things.



Woman had Tutors well past their 18 birthday; they never could be without
one. In the early republic the tudor had more authority but as time passed
the tutor (in the late republic) was more of a lawyer representing the
interests of the female in court, which females never had a right to do.
Also the Tutor ensured that the female never sold agricultural land without
his permission, this was put in place to maintain the estates that generated
the income that ensured the families maintained their status. I donÂ’t know
all of the laws of Nova Roma but if youÂ’re going for detail this should be
addressed.



Mike, Ailin and Buffy Abboud

Omaha, Nebraska

mikeabboud@...



_____

From: A. Apollonius Cordus [mailto:a_apollonius_cordus@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:12 PM
To: Main List
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The proposed léx Equitia dé familiá



A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.

Since I was one of those who worked on the proposed
léx dé familiá, and since I have the time to spare, I
thought I'd try to give you a summary of the law and a
little of the thinking behind it. I'm afraid even this
summary is fairly long, but hopefully it ought to be
easier than the law itself. Of course I advise you
read the text itself before you vote, but reading this
first may help you to understand the text more
quickly.

So, here's a brief(ish) explanation of the léx Equitia
dé familiá.

What this law does is, in essence, to bring the family
law of Nova Róma into line with Roman family law. It
completes the reform begun by last year's léx Labiena
dé géntibus. It ensures that patrésfamilíás and
mátrésfamiliás will be treated as real parents, with
the appropriate rights and responsibilities. It also
protects the rights of all the members of familiae. In
all, it brings the social structures and the whole
society of Nova Róma closer to that of ancient Rome.
I'll go through it article by article, summarizing
what each article does and explaining the historical
basis and any departures from historical accuracy.

I. Legal Status

In Roman law, everyone was either a paterfamiliás or
in the potestás of a paterfamiliás. Patrésfamiliás
were suí júris, which means they had the full set of
legal rights and could buy and sell property, sign
contracts, and so on. Other people were aliéní júris,
which meant that they were under the power and the
protection of a paterfamiliás, who looked after them
and acted on their behalf when they needed to do
things which only a paterfamiliás could do.

At the moment, Nova Róma allows people who are not
patrésfamiliás or mátrésfamiliás to be suí júris,
which in Roman law is a nonsensical idea. This has
already caused some problems, and more problems will
arise as Nova Róma grows and more and more citizens
have families. So this law restores the principle that
only a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can be suí
júris. What this means in practice will become clear
later.

II. Familiae

A familia was a household - not quite the same as a
family, though many people in the same familia would
also have been in the same family. A familia was a
paterfamiliás and everyone who was in his potestás. A
man would normally have potestás over his children,
and their children, and so on. He would also have
potestás over his wife if he had married her in one of
the more old-fashioned ways (more on this later). But
he wouldn't have potestás over any of his children
whom he had emancipated (more on that later), or any
of his daughters who had got married in the
old-fashioned way. No one could be in the potestás of
more than one person.

This law restores these principles too. The only
difference is that in Nova Róma a woman can be a
máterfamiliás, and can have potestás over her own
children. This raises a problem: who has potestás over
the children of a married couple? This law solves that
problem by allowing a married couple to have joint
potestás, as if they were a single person. This is,
perhaps, a slightly un-Roman solution, but it is, at
seems, the best way to solve the problem without
abandoning the principle of equality between men and
women.

III. Rights & Duties of Patria Potestás & Manus

In Roman law, there were many things that a person who
was aliéní júris (i.e., someone who was not a
paterfamiliás) could not do. It wouldn't be practical
or desirable to bring all those restrictions back in
Nova Róma, but this law restores some of them. If a
person who is aliéní júris wants to buy or sell
anything, or make a legal contract, he or she has to
get permission from his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás. But this could, of course, be rather
impractical, so this law allows patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás to give general permission - i.e. they
can say "I give you permission to buy and sell
whatever you like, whenever you like". And in
practice, I expect this is what most patrésfamiliás
and mátrésfamiliás will do.

But of course a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will
have responsibilities as well. He or she will be
responsible for raising and educating the people in
his or her potestás, and for making sure they behave
well (using, if they wish, rewards or punishments). If
they fail to do these things adequately, it may result
in them losing potestás over those people. So this law
leaves people who are aliéní júris much better off
than they were in Roman law; and it also gives to
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás their historical
rights and duties, which Nova Róma has previously
denied them.

IV. Legal Capacity

Since people who are aliéní júris are unable to make
contracts without the agreement of their paterfamiliás
or máterfamiliás, there need to be rules to say what
happens if one does make a contract. This article
contains those rules. They give the paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás a chance to cancel the contract, and
they give the same chance to whoever the contract was
made with. If neither side wants to back out, the
contract remains valid.

V. Legal Action

Another thing a person who is aliéní júris can't do,
both in Roman law and in this proposed law, is to
appear in court. Their paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás
will be able to take legal action on their behalf, so
their legal rights remain fully protected. Also, a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás will be held
responsible for anything illegal which anyone in his
or her potestás does, since it is his or her
responsibility to ensure that those in his or her
potestás behave properly. However, in order to avoid
unfairness, the praetórés will be allowed to excuse
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás if there was
genuinely nothing he or she could have done to prevent
it.

VI. Changes In Legal Status

This article explains how people who are aliéní júris
can become suí júris, and how people who are suí júris
can become aliéní júris. These various ways are all
precisely the same as in Roman law. Some of them are
self-explanatory; others, like emancipation, will be
dealt with later.

VII. Marriage

Roman law was very reluctant to interfere in people's
private lives, so Roman marriage law is very liberal.
If people live together and consider themselves
married, they are considered married by Roman law -
nice and simple; and the same applies in this law.
This type of marriage was called a free marriage.
There were some more old-fashioned forms of marriage
which survived, but became less popular during the
republic. These are called manus-marriages, because
the wife was in the manus (which is similar to the
potestás) of her husband, and was not suí júris. There
were three different ways to make a manus-marriage,
and these are explained in this article.

VIII. Dissolution Of Marriage

This article explains the ways in which marriages can
come to an end. Again, the law is liberal - a free
marriage can be ended just by either spouse telling
the other one that it's over. Manus-marriages are a
bit harder to get out of, and this article explains
the ways in which they can be ended, and the ways in
which they can be made into free marriages.

IX. Prohibited Marriages

As one would expect, Roman law didn't accept some
types of marriage - marriages between siblings or
first cousins, for instance, were not allowed. Nor
could a person marry the child or parent of his or her
ex-spouse; and also people had to be at least 18 to
get married. All these Roman rules are contained in
this law, precisely as they were in Roman law during
the republic.

X. Emancipation

Apart from the death of his or her paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, emancipation is the only way a person
who is aliéní júris can become suí júris. In Roman law
it was a complicated process for which the praetor had
to be present in person. This law simplifies it a
little, but preserves the main point. The main point
is that a paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can tell the
praetor that he wants to emancipate the person
concerned, and as long as he can get five witnesses,
it's done.

In Roman law, no one could emancipate himself. But in
the interests of fairness, this law creates a way in
which this can happen. If someone's paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás refuses to emancipate him or her, he or
she can go the praetor directly. The praetor talks to
the paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás, and decides
whether he thinks the refusal is unreasonable. If it
is, he can emancipate the person himself. Though this
is not directly historical, it is similar to a rule
created by Augustus which said that if a paterfamiliás
unreasonably refused to let his son or daughter get
married, the praetor could overrule him - so although
this is not a Roman solution, it is certainly the sort
of solution the Romans would have come up with.

XI. Adoption

At the moment, the ways in which people can move from
géns to géns and familia to familia are not well
defined. This article restores the Roman rules of
adoption, which is the only way people can move from
one géns and familiae to another. There were two types
of adoption: adrogátió for people who are suí júris,
and adoptió for people who aren't. The rules for each
of these are set out in this article. Adrogátió is an
important and serious matter because it will often
mean the end of a familia and therefore also the end
of that familia's religious traditions, so adrogátió
requires the agreement of the pontifex máximus.
Adoptiío is simpler, and requires only five witnesses.
This article also contains various other rules
regarding adoption. All of them are historically
accurate.

XII. Tútela

It can sometimes happen that someone can be suí júris
but under 18 years old. According to Roman law, any
person of this kind has to have a tútor or tútrix. A
tútor or tútrix has less power than a paterfamiliás or
máterfamiliás, but can still do what he or she needs
to do to look after the interests of the person
concerned until his or her 18th birthday. Roman law
had various complicated rules about how to work out
who ought to be tútor, and those rules are accurately
reproduced in this article, with a couple of very
minor changes (such as reducing some of the time
limits, since communications are faster these days).
It also contains the rules (again the same as in Roman
law) which allow a tútor to be removed if he fails in
his duties.

XIII. Succession

This article contains some rules, almost precisely the
same as in Roman law, about wills and inheritance.
Most of these won't be used very often, but it's
important to have them mostly to ensure that familial
religious traditions are preserved. These rules
explain who becomes heir when another person dies, and
whoever becomes heir is responsible for continuing
those religious traditions. So this article is
primarily of religious importance, though wills can be
used to pass on property as well, and in any case
Roman wills were often used to deliver a final message
to one's friends and relatives, which is a Roman
tradition worth preserving.

XIV. Remedies

The Twelve Tables contained a rule that a
paterfamiliás who went mad could have his familiae
taken away from him and placed under the care of a
tútor. This article expands on that rule, allowing it
to go into effect not only when the paterfamiliás is
mad but also if he consistently and serious fails in
his duties toward those in his care. This will not be
casually done, because the issue has to be considered
intially by the praetor and then decided by a panel of
júdicés. However, it does provide an important
protection for people who are aliéní júris, and an
important way to make sure that patrésfamiliás and
mátrésfamiliás behave responsibly.

XV. New Citizens

This article is obviously partly modern, but is based
on Roman principles. It contains rules about the
status and names of people joining Nova Róma,
depending on whether they join existing familiae or
start new ones. It also guarantees the children of
citizens the right to join Nova Róma as members of the
familia of their parents.

XVI. Miscellaneous Provisions

This article contains a few different things. It
defines who can act as a witness for the purposes of
the law, and gives guidance about how the law is to be
interpreted. It also restates the fact that people who
are aliéní júris keep their constitutional rights, and
their ability to access them through their
patrésfamiliás and mátrésfamiliás, except that a
paterfamiliás or máterfamiliás can't vote for anyone
else unless the usual procedures are observed.

And that's the end of the law. Thanks for reading. :)





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberi Arcane Agricola,

According to ancient Roman law, a person carrying Roman citizenship
was indeed privileged because it was forbidden by Roman law to
cruxcify or flogg a citizen, contrary to Hollywood's film ideas.
Based on that, your second alternativw seems best.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Abboud" <mikeabboud@c...>
wrote:

> Can we crucify him; I haven't seen a good crucifixion since...well

never. If

> we can't then I'll just forgive him.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Arcanus Agricola
>
> mikeabboud@c...
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Quintus Cassius Brutus [mailto:quintus_cassius@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 2:25 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ATTN: ALL CITIZENS: Apology
>
>
>
> Attn: All Citizens of Nova Roma,
>
> While I have been engaged much in the recent debates

regarding the

> Religio, there is something that has caught up with me. What has

caught up

> with me is a clear lack of judgement, negligence, and

irresponsibility. I

> have been informed and admitted my guilt in having multiple names

in Nova

> Roma. Those names that are associated with my natural birth name

are

> Quintus Cornelius Caesar, Quintus Meridius Brutus, Quintus

Cassius, and

> Quintus Aemilius Laetus. I have misled my Pater Marcus Cassius

Julianus not

> once but twice. I have also misled the other Pater's involved in

this

> affair.
>
> The fact that I have multiple identities within Nova Roma

raises

> serious questions about voting. Most importantly is did I use

these

> accounts to engage in fraudulent behavior to impact the result of

a vote.

> The answer to that is most definitely no. I at no time voted

using multiple

> identities to impact any vote. This then makes one ask why then

the muliple

> identities?
>
> The answer to that is simple. Since this involves all

citizens an

> explanation is due. When I initially became a citizen on 09-25-01

I was in

> college. The workload eventually took up more and more of my time

and I was

> unable to be as active a member as I would have liked to.

Eventually my

> yahoo account for the Cornelia citizenship became inaccessible. I

also

> forgot my password to my citizen's page. So I took the lazy man's

route of

> creating another identity. However, due to college this laid the

grounds

> for a repetitious pattern. This is why there exist mulitple

identities

> attached to my natural name.
>
> I however, am now finished with college and do have the time

to

> contribute towards being an active citizen within the Nova Roma

community.

> I did not wish to create such problems for Nova Roma. However,

after having

> the extent of my negligence explained to me when the charges were

layed out

> against me I now understand how far reaching my irresponsibility

has gone.

> It not only violates the law of Nova Roma but also has more far-

reaching

> consequences that could have created legal problems for myself as

well as

> Nova Roma. For this all I can do is say that I am sorry. My

actions should

> be shunned and frowned upon. I hope with time that each citizen

can forgive

> me. But for all the problems I have created sorry is not enough.

Words are

> meaninglesswithout the actions to support them. So as time goes

by I hope

> you all individually can forgive me for my irresponsibility,

negligence, and

> deceit.
> Vale, Quintus

Cassius Brutus

>
>
> ---------------------------------
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