C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix wrote:

> While all three candidates for the office of Aedilis
> Curulus have shown
> themselves to be dedicated and active citizens, I
> can only pick two of
> them, so based on their previous experience in
> working as Aedlican staff
> members I give my endorsement to Gaia Fabia Livia
> and Lucius Iulius Sulla.

and Decius Iunius Palladius wrote:

> For Curule aedile:
>
> Gaia Fabia Livia and Lucius Iulius Sulla are both
> enthusiastic about Nova
> Roma and excellent choices for curule aedile. You
> would serve our republic
> well by voting for either or both of them.

For which support I thank them both from the bottom of
my heart.

I am also glad to see that Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
has not in fact lost his faith in me, but will rather
be voting this year on the basis of age ;)

Livia


=====
C. Fabia Livia
Candidate for Curule Aedile





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Salve Deci Iuni, et salvete omnes,

bcatfd@... wrote:

[A lot, of which I'll only address a very little]

> Consul Marinus in his endorsement of her rightly noted that she has been
> well-behaved for six months but for the year before before that he wouldn't
> have endorsed her for dogcatcher. I too commend Pompeia for the six months
> of good behavior. However, this does not make her ready to serve as consul
> after being considered unfit for the lowest office.

This is a valid concern Palladi, and one that deserves comment. As you know
very well from our private correspondence in the past, I had some very grave
concerns when Pompeia chose to reenter the political arena. I have maintained
an ongoing correspondence with her since June, and in the course of that time
I've become convinced that she recognizes her earlier errors and has learned
from past mistakes. She has assured me that if elected she will serve her
entire term of office, and that as Consul she will exercise careful judgement
while dealing with all. I'm satisfied from this ongoing correspondence that
she is, indeed, ready to resume her cursus honorum from the point where she
left it in mid-November of her Praetorian year.

Just as I recognize that Gaius Popillius Laenus has overcome the personal
issues that led him to resign from office once, so I recognize that Pompeia has
done similarly.

I doubt this will change your mind with respect to Pompeia, but I value your
regard highly, and wanted you to understand that my endorsement is not given to
Pompeia without very careful deliberation.

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

A. Apollónius Cordus rogátor omnibus sal.

The preliminary results of the centuria praerogátíva
have been calculated.

For cénsor the top vote-winning candidate is Cn.
Equitius Marínus.

For cónsul the top two vote-winning candidates are C.
Popillius Laenas and C. Modius Athanasius.

For praetor the top two vote-winning candidates are
Diana Octávia Aventína and Ti. Galerius Paulínus.


Members of century number 5 who have not yet voted may
still vote until the close of voting.



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A. Apollónius Cordus rogátor omnibus sal.

Members of centuries 1 to 14 may now vote in the
comitia centuriáta. Members of century 5 may still vote.





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A. Apollónius Cordus rogátor omnibus sal.

The following votes have been cast too early and will
not be counted:

10001
10002
10004
10005
10006
10007
10008
10009
10011
10014
10015
10016
10017
10018
10019
10020
10021
10022
10023
10024

If any of these tracking-numbers is yours, please vote
again at the proper time.

Also, vote number 10013 has an invalid voter-code. If
this tracking number is yours, please check your voter
code and vote again.

Remember that only members of the first class
(centuries 1 to 14) may vote now. Members of all other
centuries may vote from 00:01 Roman time on the 20th
of December.



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Citizens of Nova Roma

The subject book has been of such great value to me as a student of Roman History and Culture that I thought to deal with each chapter individully on this net. It is a kind of continuing book report, and it is shared with any on this list who can use the information.

+++++++++++++++++++

--Lesley and Roy Adkins,"Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome," Oxford
University Press (New York and Oxford), 1994.

The chapters in the above volume are:

--Republic and Empire;

--Military Affairs;

--Geography of the Roman World;

--Towns and Countryside;

--Travel and Trade;

--Written Evidence;

--Religion;

--Economy and Industry;

--Everyday Life.

Starting with Chapter One; "Republic and Empire;"

There is a lengthy List of Events and Event Dates From the mythical Romulus / Remus twins to AD 536.

There is an extensive list of prominent people, by period and dynasty, within the Roman Culture throughout it's long period. There is also a small paragraph about each individual.

There is a section on Social Structure which discusses the Patrician and
Plebian Classes. There are also sections on Government, Taxes,
Finance, and Laws.

At the end of the Chapter is a Reading Section which gives a bibliography for further research in each of the above categories. The book, itself, provides a good beginning in each of the sections mentioned above. This is all accomplished on pages 3 through 48, so it is a short but information packed read. I found the chapter to be very
informative and well written. I use it a source book in my writing and
have found very few items of my interest not covered in this volume. It occupies a special place in my Roman Library.

The was a gift from a very Prominent Nova Roman ProConsul, and doubly valued because of that very kind and valued action.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius - Tiberius Audens

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
--- End forwarded message ---

This chapter has a wide variety of material in it relating to the Roman
Military Affairs. It begins with a History of the Legions; Legion
Development during the Monarchy, Early and Middle Republic, Marius
Reforms, Late Republic, Early Empire and Late Empire. It discusses
under the sub-chapter of Numbering and Stations of Legions; Republic
Legions, Civil War, Imperial Legions, and legion disposition. The
organization of the Legions is the next major sub-chapter which
discusses the organization of the legions in the different periods. The
Alae Sociorum, The Garrison AT Rome, and the Auxileries are also discussed
here .Folowing these is the sub-chapter for the Navy; it's bases, Crews, and Functions. Military Conditions of Service; are next, folowed by Training and Battle Tactics.

Sieges, Weapons and Equipment, Military Standards and Decorations,
Triumphs, Camps, Forts and Fortresses are addressed with a look at the
Frontiers. The Chapter ends with further suggested reading in each of
the sub-chapters indicated above. All of the preceeding is covered in
51 pages, so the book seems to be pretty well balanced as to the emphasis on the various areas of discussion. This of course is one of my favorite chapters, and one which has supplied me with further references and reading.

Next Question -- What is a Caltrop? What is it's purpose and what is it
made of. Those who have a copy of this manual, of course will know the
answer, so let's let some of the others take a guess.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
--- End forwarded message ---

Salvete Quirites!

I will make the following recommendation for these magistrates.

Censor

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Is a very experienced magistrate and also skilled in many fields in
the marco-world. As he is the only candidate I can only ask everybody
to vote for him as a homage to his great work this year as a Consul.
He will surely be a splendid Censor.

I fully support Gnaeus Marinus as Censor!


Consules

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
I have known Franciscus Apulus for three years now and his enthusiasm
for and loyalty to Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua is even strong now. I
am sure that he will continue the good work of Consul Gnaeus Marinus.
As Franciscus Apulus is amna of visions I amsure that he will
introduce some planning for new projects. I really look forward to
this as I think that Nova Roma must become a respected center for
Roman Culture. archeology and research. Franciscus Apulus is a man of
visions and I think that he will lift our work to new levels of
higher quality.

As Franciscus Apulus want balance in Nova Roma I am sure that he will
combine his visions with hard day-to-day work. As we have worked
together I know that he is a hard worker. I still think that he is
the harderest working Quaestor Nova Roma ever has seen. I trust
Franciscus Apulus to listen to good advise and make well based
decisions as he has done during his whole Cursus Honorum until today.
To achieve the things he strives for we need to vote for Franciscus
Apulus as Consul.

I fully support Franciscus Apulus!

Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo
There has been some discussion about some mistakes that Pompeia
Strabo have done in the past. In an answer to this Consul Gnaeus
Marinus skillfully met these questions. But we must remember that
Pompeia Strabo has a long history in Nova Roma long before that sad
autumn and that she has done good work after that time too. Now what
did she achieve when she wasn't taken by surprise by these events?

To me Pompeia Strabo is the one who greated me welcome as a member of
both Egressus and Sodalitas Militarium. She caught my attention with
her kind handling of all contacts with new memebers, a skill that I
think is well needed by a Consul of Nova Roma. Then I saw her good
work as a Propraetor of Canada Orientalis for nearly two years,
further she was more active as a Senator than most. She has been a
Accensa and Scriba to many magistrates and made an outstanding job of
it. She has always shown a special interest and knowledge of the Nova
Roman Constitution and leges. During the five years that Pompeia
Strabo has been a citizen she has been a hard worker and I expect her
to continue to build that record, as this is how Pompeia Strabo has
been during most of her time in Nova Roma.

I fully support Pompeia Strabo!


Praetores

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
I met Marcus Perusianus during the Nova Roma Rally in Bologna last
year, since then we have kept in touch and I appreciate him more for
each day. I was worried that he wouldn't be prepared to climb the
Cursus Honorum as I saw him as an extremly talented, honest, skillful
and hard working person. It is with great delight I see that he has
decided to give Nova Roma more of his valuable time. He is Romanitas
impersonated as I see it and I think that he will be a very good
Praetor for Nova Roma. Kind, fair, careful and still just he is
perfect for the job. I fully trust hm to see to it that the present
pleasant state at the main list is continued and that justice in the
full sense of the word is done.

I fully support Marcus Perusianus!

Lucius Arminius Faustus
Once again a man of visions. I think Nova Roma and justice is the
passion of Lucius Arminius. Sometimes his passion lead Lucius
Arminius to heated arguments. His dedication and willingneess to work
hard can't be doubted. When these personalty traits are combined with
a strong willingness to learn and study the situation during Roma
Antiqua, I think we will get a Praetor that will take his duty very
seriously. I trust that he will be as balanced in his justice as he
is passionate about Nova Roma in other fields as this is the right
thing to do and Lucius Arminius wants what is right. There still are
some unjust behavior and customs in Nova Roam and I am confident that
Lucius Arminius will kindly hunt these down and correct them.

I fully support Lucius Arminius!

Salvete Quirites;
let us rejoice today December 17th is the first day of Saturnalia!
Don't forget to exchange presents, make sweets and repect peace.

I am particulary grateful to Lucius Modius Kaelus who has updated
the NR interactive calendar to put the religious festivals in.
gratias tiba ago Kaelo!
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana

AVETE OMNES

It's time for me to express my full support for the candidacy of
Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus for Aedilis Curulis.

Pius is the kind of person you would call "a wise man". In fact he
is one of the people with the best analytic skill I ever saw. In
every situation he manages to easily get the whole picture and
elaborate a plan of action. This entails a remarkable organizational
capability which Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus already showed in
the past in his capacity as Quaestor and Magister Aranearius.

We all know how the office of the Curule Aediles has changed during
the recent years. Now it is much more intricate than before. Today
the Aedile needs a staff to fulfill all of his duties, which are no
longer limited to organizing small games, but involve a number of
other fields, such as commercial matters, events and cultural
projects. And every day there might be a new problem which you need
to solve in a few hours. I know this because I have been Quaestor to
a Curule Aedile last year.
In order to properly coordinate this whole amount of work, you need
a person with the skills Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus has.

I am sure he will make a perfect Aedilis Curulis.

Vote Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus for Aedilis Curulis!!!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Propraetor Italiae
Scriba Censoris CFQ
Beneficarius et Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressus
LIBRA ALLIANCE

Salvete Quirites!

Maior wrote:

> let us rejoice today December 17th is the first day of Saturnalia!

Io Saturnalia! Enjoy yourselves! Have fun! Make merry be joyful.

Valete,

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salve Deci Iuni, et salvete omnes,

Salve Gnae Equiti,

> bcatfd@t... wrote:
>
> [A lot, of which I'll only address a very little]

I did get a little wordy--sorry.

> > Consul Marinus in his endorsement of her rightly noted that she
>>has been well-behaved for six months but for the year before before
>>that he wouldn't
> > have endorsed her for dogcatcher. I too commend Pompeia for the
>>six months
> > of good behavior. However, this does not make her ready to serve
>>as consul
>> after being considered unfit for the lowest office.
>
> This is a valid concern Palladi, and one that deserves comment. As
>you know very well from our private correspondence in the past, I
>had some very grave concerns when Pompeia chose to reenter the
>political arena.

Yes, indeed, I do remember those conversations, which was why I was a
little surprised to see your endorsement, especially in light of her
far more qualified and less abrasive opponents.

>I have maintained an ongoing correspondence with her since June, and
>in the course of that time I've become convinced that she recognizes
>her earlier errors and has learned from past mistakes. She has
>assured me that if elected she will serve her entire term of office,
>and that as Consul she will exercise careful judgement while dealing
>with all. I'm satisfied from this ongoing correspondence that
> she is, indeed, ready to resume her cursus honorum from the point
>where she left it in mid-November of her Praetorian year.

Well, to be exact, she left in late October, not mid-November.
Anyway, I too am willing to believe she is ready to start over,
however the top magistracy in Nova Roma is not the place to start.
One does not go from being the last person one would consider for
dogcatcher to being a candidate for consul in six months. If I am not
entirely giving her the benefit of the doubt, then you give her far
too much, especially as the other three candidates are far less
controversial, much more qualified and more willing to listen to
other points of view than her (you did endorse one other, it is
true). In light of her past both she and the Republic would be better
served by seeing her serve in another office, especially as there is
no dearth of consular candidates.

> Just as I recognize that Gaius Popillius Laenus has overcome the
>personal issues that led him to resign from office once, so I
>recognize that Pompeia has done similarly.

Well, let's be fair, Laenas doesn't have the baggage with his
resignation that goes with Pompeia's resignation (actually she has
a fair amount from before her resignation but that's another issue),
nor a long record ill behavior. The positives far outweigh the
negatives with Laenas (or with Modius or Apulus for that matter).

> I doubt this will change your mind with respect to Pompeia, but I
>value your regard highly, and wanted you to understand that my
>endorsement is not given to Pompeia without very careful
>deliberation.

Thank you for taking the time to post this explanation, I appreciate
it. I think your endorsement of her for this office was wrong for the
Republic but I understand you didn't do it lightly.

Vale,

Palladius

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Quiritibus salutem dicit.

Salvete,

To help dispell some of the confusion about when to vote in the various
comitia, the *format* of the schedules for voting which appear both on the
main page and the entry page to the cista have been reformatted to their
Roman equivalents, to match the clock which is displayed with each of them.
So, if you are unsure as to when to vote, find your spot in the voting
schedule, and check that with the time shown on the clock (either halfway
down on the main page, or a few lines down on the entry page to the cista).

Valete,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Scriba Magistri Araneari

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
>
> Lastly but far from least. Given the job description and its
> requirements and comparing it to the calm and steady manner in
> which Palladius comports himself in NR, who could doubt that this
> was a position tailor made for someone who exudes fairness
>regardless of political viewpoint and who can be said to be truly
>here for the best of reasons. Palladius is honest to a fault and
>imapartial and I would encourage everyone to vote for him. A
>splendid Roman.

My dear Caesar, thank you for your kind words and endorsement. They
mean a lot to me. I kept looking over my shoulder wondering who you
were talking about. :-)

Vale,

Palladius

Salve C. Fabi Quintiliane,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
> Decius Palladius, the Senator, is my favorite opponent, always calm
> and intelligent. He has been a my Accensus and at the same time
>also my opponent.

Opponent but never an enemy, my friend. Even the word opponent seems
too strong. Over the years we've managed not to let differing views
get in the way of friendship or seeing the good in others, a lesson
others could learn in Nova Roma.

>He incarnates the good citizen, always standing for what
> is right, still also open to other's points of view.

Thank you. I will do my best to live up to yours and others'
confidence in me.

Vale,

Palladius

Salve Decius Iunius Palladius who said in part


"endorsements for praetor:

First off, I endorse Tiberius Galerius Paulinus. More than any of the
other candidates, he has earned this office. He is fair minded and
independent-stubbornly so. He is not swayed by politics or factions,
either by the former Boni when we were a semi-organized political
entity, nor is he swayed by the quite organized political party, the
so-called Libra Alliance or whatever other groups are out there this week.
He has taken the office of Tribune more seriously than any of his
colleagues this year and worked hard on behalf of the people.

Not only was he also an excellent quaestor when he was editor of the Eagle
he put out the best Eagle by far that Nova Roma has ever produced. His steady
service cannot be equaled. As a fair, impartial and always accessible
magistrate, he will make an excellent Praetor...."
WOW

Thank You!!!! Senator for you very kind and encouraging words. I try to keep your service to Nova Roma as my model of a good and effective magistrate as well as a good and decent man.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Salvete, Quirites.

I have for the last few months come as near as possible to despairing
of Nova Roma and the direction it has taken. It has seemed to me that
a faction has become dominant which sees the Religio and the mos
maiorum as impediments to their hegemony, which seeks to enshrine
modernism and impious innovation as the hallmarks of the respublica
and who are not loathe to persecute those who dare to oppose them. I
also expect that as soon as I have surrendered my imperium I shall
become the target of another lawsuit from an enemy of the Religio,
since neither consul has deigned to convene the Comitia to repeal the
leges Salicia which have become an instrument for harassment of
political and religious foes. In many respects this election is for
me the final determinant of whether NR is a failed experiment; seldom
have there been clearer choices.

G. Popillius Laenas is a man of great integrity, maturity of judgment,
and devotion to the mos maiorum. As consul he would be a bulwark
against pernicious innovation and sacrifice of the mos maiorum on the
altar of modernism. I support him without reservation and pray to the
Gods that his candidacy is successful.

I have disagreed on a number matters with G. Modius Athanasius, but he
is a practitioner and priest of the Religio and it is essential that
the consulship be filled by those who are not merely willing, but able
to carry out the requisite caerimoniae without vitium. I support him
as well.

I have known Diana Octavia Aventina to be a pious practitioner of the
Religio and a devoted priestess, whose service as Tribuna Plebis was
distinguished. Her election to the consulship last year was, frankly,
robbed from her by an electoral system which more apes modern
Australia than Roma Antiqua in the way in which it weights votes.
She was also subjected to a campaign of vilification and harassment, a
campaign to which more than one practitioner of the Religio was
subjected, as a result of which, as well as personal tragedy in the
death of her father, she resigned her quaestorship. The Quirites have
in her the opportunity to both right an injustice and ensure that the
praetorship is filled by someone who will be able to perform the
caerimoniae associated with it and administer the list with a full
appreciation of the importance of freedom of speech. I endorse her
candidacy unreservedly.

I have worked this year with M. Iulius Perusianus as my aedilician
colleague. I have found him to be a man of extraordinary integrity,
an enormous capacity for work, and a fine sense of justice. He will
do the praetorship great honour. I likewise endorse his candidacy.

Gaia Fabia Livia has distinguished herself in Provincia Britannia and
as a Quaestor, and would be a worthy Aedilis Curulis. L. Iulius Sulla
is an erudite young man who has ably served my aedilician colleague as
quaestor. I support the candidacies of both.

Q. Lanius Paulinus has served with distinction in my aedilician cohors
this year, as well as a propraetor, and will bring to the Quaestorship
an unrivalled degree of qualification and promise. Lucius Rutilius
Minervalis has served Provincia Gallia and Nova Roma and I am deeply
pleased to see him embarking on the cursus honorum. I support their
candidacies enthusiastically.

As a patrician I make no endorsements of candidates for plebeian
office. However, I point out that G. Vipsanius Agrippa served this
year as my aedilician Qaestor and disinguished himself as a dedicated
and efficient magistrate whose judgment I could trust implicitly.
Furthermore, C. Curius Saturninus' work as Quaestor and on behalf of
the Academia Thules has marked him as a most dingtuished citizen,
eager to serve the respublica. Finally, Marcus Bianchius Antonius has
been a successful propraetor and a prodigious worker on behalf of the
respublica; I hope I do not offend him too grievously by the
observation that, while he is well-qualified in every other respect, I
find it difficult to imagine that the sacrosanctitas of a tribunus
plebis who rejected the divinitas of the Di Immortales, as his
personal faith requires, would be entirely well-omened.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus
Aedilis Curulis, Pontifex et Flamen Quirinalis

Salve Laenas,

Thank you for your kind words! And of course you have my vote. I think that you and Modius would make a great team of Consuls. The best of luck to yoiu Laenas!
Vale,
Diana




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Moravius laureatus G. Iulio Scauro Sal.

Please let me thank you for expressing your views on this forum. I wholeheartidly agree with you that the result of these elections will be a turning point in the way Nova Roma will be led in the coming years. Our paths diverge however on our interpretation of these results and I would like, if I may, respond to a few comments you kindly shared with us.


In an email dated Fri, 17 12 2004 6:46:43 am GMT, "g_iulius_scaurus" <gregory.rose@...> writes:

>
>
>G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
>
>Salvete, Quirites.
>
>I have for the last few months come as near as possible to despairing
>of Nova Roma and the direction it has taken.  It has seemed to me that
>a faction has become dominant which sees the Religio and the mos
>maiorum as impediments to their hegemony, which seeks to enshrine
>modernism and impious innovation as the hallmarks of the respublica
>and who are not loathe to persecute those who dare to oppose them  I
>also expect that as soon as I have surrendered my imperium I shall
>become the target of another lawsuit from an enemy of the Religio,
>since neither consul has deigned to convene the Comitia to repeal the
>leges Salicia which have become an instrument for harassment of
>political and religious foes.  In many respects this election is for
>me the final determinant of whether NR is a failed experiment; seldom
>have there been clearer choices.
>

I do share your love for the Religio. I would like to point out, however, that the Religio should not, must not, be the sole focus point of these elections. I have said it before and will say it again, Nova Roma, like any other society, cannot be reduced to only one issue, however important it is to you. Nova Roma, by its very nature, that of a worldwide organisation, cannot be anything else than a melting pot of different individuals who share one common dream: The revival of the Romanitas. The Religio is a vital factor in this equation but it shares that priviledge with many other subjects. As such these elections, at least in my mind, will be decided on the identification of the real "bridge builders" in Nova Roma; Those people who act rather than talk; Those people who stay and do their job rather than disappear or resign at will; Those people who bring together our cives and bind our society on the basis of mutual understanding.
Far from trying to use your expertise and scholarship to become such pilar in our community I am disappointed that you should resort to the old "conspiracy theory" argument to make your point. I have always held you in high estime and I would have expected a more balanced and reasonable rationale behind your choice of candidates from a scholar such as yourself.

I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to once again exchange a few words with you. Please rest assured that I remain at your disposal should you wish to carry on this discussion in private.

Most respectfully

Optime vale

>G. Popillius Laenas is a man of great integrity, maturity of judgment,
>and devotion to the mos maiorum.  As consul he would be a bulwark
>against pernicious innovation and sacrifice of the mos maiorum on the
>altar of modernism.  I support him without reservation and pray to the
>Gods that his candidacy is successful.
>
>I have disagreed on a number matters with G. Modius Athanasius, but he
>is a practitioner and priest of the Religio and it is essential that
>the consulship be filled by those who are not merely willing, but able
>to carry out the requisite caerimoniae without vitium.  I support him
>as well.
>
>I have known Diana Octavia Aventina to be a pious practitioner of the
>Religio and a devoted priestess, whose service as Tribuna Plebis was
>distinguished.  Her election to the consulship last year was, frankly,
>robbed from her by an electoral system which more apes modern
>Australia than Roma Antiqua in the way in which it weights votes.  
>She was also subjected to a campaign of vilification and harassment, a
>campaign to which more than one practitioner of the Religio was
>subjected, as a result of which, as well as personal tragedy in the
>death of her father, she resigned her quaestorship.  The Quirites have
>in her the opportunity to both right an injustice and ensure that the
>praetorship is filled by someone who will be able to perform the
>caerimoniae associated with it and administer the list with a full
>appreciation of the importance of freedom of speech.  I endorse her
>candidacy unreservedly.
>
>I have worked this year with M. Iulius Perusianus as my aedilician
>colleague.  I have found him to be a man of extraordinary integrity,
>an enormous capacity for work, and a fine sense of justice.  He will
>do the praetorship great honour.  I likewise endorse his candidacy.
>
>Gaia Fabia Livia has distinguished herself in Provincia Britannia and
>as a Quaestor, and would be a worthy Aedilis Curulis.  L. Iulius Sulla
>is an erudite young man who has ably served my aedilician colleague as
>quaestor.  I support the candidacies of both.
>
>Q. Lanius Paulinus has served with distinction in my aedilician cohors
>this year, as well as a propraetor, and will bring to the Quaestorship
>an unrivalled degree of qualification and promise.  Lucius Rutilius
>Minervalis has served Provincia Gallia and Nova Roma and I am deeply
>pleased to see him embarking on the cursus honorum.  I support their
>candidacies enthusiastically.
>
>As a patrician I make no endorsements of candidates for plebeian
>office.  However, I point out that G. Vipsanius Agrippa served this
>year as my aedilician Qaestor and disinguished himself as a dedicated
>and efficient magistrate whose judgment I could trust implicitly.
>Furthermore, C. Curius Saturninus' work as Quaestor and on behalf of
>the Academia Thules has marked him as a most dingtuished citizen,
>eager to serve the respublica.  Finally, Marcus Bianchius Antonius has
>been a successful propraetor and a prodigious worker on behalf of the
>respublica; I hope I do not offend him too grievously by the
>observation that, while he is well-qualified in every other respect, I
>find it difficult to imagine that the sacrosanctitas of a tribunus
>plebis who rejected the divinitas of the Di Immortales, as his
>personal faith requires, would be entirely well-omened.
>
>Vale.
>
>G. Iulius Scaurus
>Aedilis Curulis, Pontifex et Flamen Quirinalis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

The Religio is not the only issue in Nova Roma, there are several. However,
the Religio is very important to many of us. The station and position of
the Gods should never be forgotten, or relegated to "just another" topic of
discussion in a political agenda.

As magistrates we have an obligation to honor the Gods, whether we do so
ourselves or vicariously through someone else.

I think Nova Roma is a wonderful experiment in Pagan and Christian
cooperation. I have a deep respect for Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy -- two
faiths I know fairly well -- and two people who I respect deeply in Nova
Roma come from those faiths; Marcus Bianchius and Equitius Cato. They bring
their talents and energy into Nova Roma, and we are strengthened because of it.
The Religio need not be something that separates us in Nova Roma, it should
simply be something in Nova Roma that *is*.

Magistrates in Nova Roma, especially Consuls, are very much like priests in
that they were expected in Roma Antiqua to make offerings to the Gods.

What I bring to the Consulship is my experience in working with other Nova
Roma magistrates, and my experience as a priest. I am also the only candidate
for Consul who is a priest in Nova Roma. As an augur I would not have to
seek another augur to convene the senate or call a comitia. As a Pontifex I
would be fully aware of the activities of the Collegium Pontificum; as I am a
member as both Pontifex and Flamen.

I have surrounded myself with friends in Nova Roma who come from many
different religious traditions. I think we can all work together to create a
better Nova Roma, and I would like an opportunity to do that.

I would like to make ONE very CLEAR statement for the other Consular
candidates:

If the people of Nova Roma do not collectively desire for me to be Consul
this year, I will accept their decision with humility. I would then offer my
services as an official advisor to either of the elected consuls as a member
of their cohors. As an Augur I can assist by taking the auspicies necessary
for convening the senate and the comitia, and as a Pontifex I can advise on
matters dealing with the state Religio.

What is important is that the Gods are honored, the fighting stops, and true
building can happen. I am willing to work for this peace, and a time of
long term prosperity in Nova Roma.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 12/17/2004 8:26:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
CornMoraviusL@... writes:

I do share your love for the Religio. I would like to point out, however,
that the Religio should not, must not, be the sole focus point of these
elections. I have said it before and will say it again, Nova Roma, like any other
society, cannot be reduced to only one issue, however important it is to you.
Nova Roma, by its very nature, that of a worldwide organisation, cannot be
anything else than a melting pot of different individuals who share one common
dream: The revival of the Romanitas. The Religio is a vital factor in this
equation but it shares that priviledge with many other subjects. As such these
elections, at least in my mind, will be decided on the identification of the
real "bridge builders" in Nova Roma; Those people who act rather than talk;
Those people who stay and do their job rather than disappear or resign at
will; Those people who bring together our cives and bind our society on the basis
of mutual understanding.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Modi Athanasi,

>Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
>The Religio is not the only issue in Nova Roma, there are several.   However,
>the Religio is very important to many of us.  The station and  position of
>the Gods should never be forgotten, or relegated to "just another"  topic of
>discussion in a political agenda.

Indeed, and you may have noticed that I did not imply that at all. I merely suggested that the Religio should not be the sole focus of the elections. Religio is very important to many of us but there are many other subjects that deserve equal attention from our magistrates, many other subjects where their talent as diplomats and team players will be required. I believe all candidates pay equal respect to the Religio; As such the only way for me to choose between them is to see what they intend to do on the temporal side of our world.


Vale

C. Moravius Laureatus

Salvete Quirites,

I wish to add one more name to my list of recommendations for
Quaestor:

Quintus Bianchius Rufinus

He is amamber of a fine gens and ready to begin his carrer of public
service in Nova Roma.

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas

---P. Minucia Tiberia D. Iunio Palladio Senatus Populesque S.P.D.

And to the right of Senator Palladius to his appraisal, I give a
resounding 'hear, hear'! I too, believe that the people should know
the full story....why I have never been shy to say that I am not
destined for deification by any means.

Indeed, our honourable Senator is more than correct that I have made
mistakes in the past, including my making some very costly
misjudgements about certain persons, and I am sure that from their
vantage, they don't see me in a much better light. And this has to
be, as I do not expect to be liked or agreed with by every single
citizen.

I have been repentant, penitant,and sincerely apologetic regarding
the mistakes of the past, and I continue to be, and I have attempted
to demonstrate my sincerity and not just talk about it. There are
six things anyone can do with his/her mistakes,from my perspective:

...i.... deny them
..ii.... justify them
.iii.... ignore them
..iv.... admit them
...v.... learn from them
..vi.... remedy any harm done to others by them

I have endeavored, and still endeavor, to implement iv,v, and vi. It
seems that any education in life we receive, we pay some form of
tuition for. The School of Hard Knocks :). We are human and it is
not always easy to learn from mistakes and face cold, hard truths,
but it is worth the effort, certainly.


These mistakes are not, however, a sudden newsflash; I have
referred to them periodically this year and late last year. I fully
admit I have made mistakes. I have been a member of this community
for nearly 5 years, and late 2002 and most of 2003 are not years I
embrace with 'undiluted fondness' akin to 'Give us More!', and
certainly the communicative climate of 2003 and most of this year
are not years after which I would wish to see NR pattern itself for
too much longer, when I review the archives.

What I am most humbled by, and what I treasure most, the 'pearl of
great price' in this for me, is the degree of clementia I have been
extended by many citizens, magistrates, and senators who have judged
me by my entire time here, and not strictly by the errors. Not that
said errors and misjudgements are condoned, but that they see them
as a bad perfomance, perhaps taking certain provocations into
account (still not an excuse) and not things solely representative
of the entire picture of my life



I nearly cried when I was within, I believe 7 Centuries of winning
this year's Censor Suffectus election. And within a coin toss of the
Praetor Suffectus election. This paints a humbling picture of how
fair and filled with clementia the people of Nova Roma are. Such
victories were not to be, and I can accept that, but I was indeed
awed by the support of citizens from the various provincia. That
made me feel **good** and I shall not forget the impact of such a
feeling. Oh the elections, like critics of a play, although
important, come and go....but clementia, amicitia...I'm gonna keep
these under lock and key.


So, in close of this **yawn** :) longer-than-it-should-be-post, I
would like to say 'thank you'...for extending me a 'quality of
mercy that is not strained' in the past, and I thank all of you who
are extending it to me during this current campaign.

Valete bene... and in service and best wishes to the republic, win
or lose

http://www.geocities.com/pompeia_minucia_tiberia/PoforConsul.html


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "bcatfd@t..." <bcatfd@t...> wrote:

> Salvete cives,
>
> <snip>
>
> The fourth choice for consul, Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo, quite
> frankly I believe to be utterly unfit for the job at this time. I

am

> surprised that some otherwise sober and reflective people have such
> short memories as to issue endorsements for this person for purely
> political reasons, not based on her ability or whether she is able

to carry

> out the task. Pompeia resigned her position as praetor in
> the fall of 2002 in fury and for the following year and a half

or more

> became more or less an embarassment for the Republic and a

nuisance for

> the
> magistrates, especially the praetors. (I was one last year and

remember

> quite
> clearly). She regularly insulted people of all political

persuasions for

> little provocation during that entire time. No one is perfect, it

is true.

> Modius and Apulus Caesar have had their share of bitter public

disputes

> but
> her invective surpasses everybody in Nova Roma without exception.
>
> Consul Marinus in his endorsement of her rightly noted that she

has been

> well-behaved for six months but for the year before before that he

wouldn't

> have endorsed her for dogcatcher. I too commend Pompeia for the

six months

> of
> good behavior. However, this does not make her ready to serve as

consul

> after
> being considered unfit for the lowest office. I think she should

prove

> herself by serving in some lower offices and working her way up,

not

> thinking
> she can jump to the top right off. She and Nova Roma would have

been better

> served off if she had proved herself by running for praetor and

finished

> that office or perhaps curule aedile. She is not ready to serve as

consul.

> Even her supporters know this but disregard the fact because they

see her

> as
> some kind of bulwark against the former "Boni" (though the way

they talk

> and
> rage about the Boni, you'd think the Boni were still an

active "faction.").

<snip>

>
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladiu
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .

Salve Senator Palladius,

> He has taken the office of Tribune more seriously than any of his
> colleagues this year and worked hard on behalf of the people.

I have great respect for Galerius Paulinus, he knows it and we never
hardly fought in our Office. I'm sure that all the outgoing Tribunes
worked very well and firstly they were very very serious. Anything
was proposed, discussed, the majority of us tried to find many
solutions to the majority of the situations. Each of us is involved
in a political "orientation", Paulinus too, I'm sure.

Now you're saying that Modius Athanasius, Sempronia Magna, Arminius
Faustus et me worked less seriously than Tribunus Paulinus.
How you could say it? Have you proofs, experiences, tales about our
job? Have you been involved in all the discussions between the
Tribunes?

I'm sure that we all worked as well as serious as possible with the
own behaviour and way. We all were very serious. How you could
compare our job?

Vale
Fr. Apulsu Caesar
Senator et Tribunus

--- P. Minucia Tiberia Mano Constantino Serapiono S.P.D.

I am full agreement with you here.

Indeed, I cannot find enough good things to say about Titus
Octavius. He has an excellent record, and using his advanced
computer skills, does alot of work behind the scenes which the
average citizen might not be aware of. Unsung hero duties...a long
standing record of commitment to this republic through hard work.
He will meet with success at just about anything he undertakes I'd
venture to think :), but in the case of Nova Roma, he makes for an
excellent choice as Curule Aedile.

Valete




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:

>
> AVETE OMNES
>
> It's time for me to express my full support for the candidacy of
> Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus for Aedilis Curulis.
>
> Pius is the kind of person you would call "a wise man". In fact he
> is one of the people with the best analytic skill I ever saw. In
> every situation he manages to easily get the whole picture and
> elaborate a plan of action. This entails a remarkable

organizational

> capability which Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus already showed in
> the past in his capacity as Quaestor and Magister Aranearius.
>
> We all know how the office of the Curule Aediles has changed

during

> the recent years. Now it is much more intricate than before. Today
> the Aedile needs a staff to fulfill all of his duties, which are

no

> longer limited to organizing small games, but involve a number of
> other fields, such as commercial matters, events and cultural
> projects. And every day there might be a new problem which you

need

> to solve in a few hours. I know this because I have been Quaestor

to

> a Curule Aedile last year.
> In order to properly coordinate this whole amount of work, you

need

> a person with the skills Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus has.
>
> I am sure he will make a perfect Aedilis Curulis.
>
> Vote Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus for Aedilis Curulis!!!
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Propraetor Italiae
> Scriba Censoris CFQ
> Beneficarius et Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressus
> LIBRA ALLIANCE

Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.

Oh come now.

You know full well that endorsements are just that. An endorsement.
They are based on many factors, not least "gut" instinct as well
as "evidence", as the person giving (or witholding) the endorsement
sees fit to describe actions and/or inactions.

You may not like or agree with the endorsements of Palladius but to
get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your input
as a Tribune is a little churlish.

For example - I de-endorse the European Union. I find that the
European Union is an organised gang of professional swindlers who
have spent the last 30 years extorting taxes from more efficient
nations to pay for inefficient ones, spending money on lavish
junkets and encouraging wasteful and corrupt fiscal practices. That
is based not just on "gut" - but on cold hard evidence of years of
waste and bureaucratic tomfoolery. I mention this as I note your
continued obsession with running off to these charlatans cap in hand
for some "whopping" great fiscal grant.

You are entitled to believe otherwise - just as I am to hold the
view of the EU that I do. Palladius is entitled to endorse who he
sees fit, or not. He doesn't have to justify those endorsements any
more than you do.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Palladius,
>
> > He has taken the office of Tribune more seriously than any of

his

> > colleagues this year and worked hard on behalf of the people.
>

---Salvete Iulilla Sempronia Magna Materfamilias Sempronia et Titus
Sempronius Marcellus

Your gens continues to prosper Iulilla, as it should.

I welcome you to the republic Titus Sempronius Marcellus. You have
picked an excellent gens with a very virtuous and knowledgeable
materfamilias.

Valete et Bona Fortuna,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<curatrix@v...> wrote:

> Villa Ivlilla StationeryJulilla Sempronia Magna omnibus SPD
>
> I'm a tad late in announcing the 13th member to join gens

Sempronius.

>
> Titus Sempronius Marcellus hails from Lacus Magni (Wisconsin) and

is

> interested in the Religio, politics, culture, reenactment, Latin

and

> history.
>
> Please make him welcome!
>
> ---
> @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> |||| materfamilias,
> @____@ Gens Sempronia
> |||| www.villaivlilla.com/GensSempronia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Equitius Cato I. Semproniae Magnae Ti. Sempronio Marcellusque
S.P.D.

Salvete!

Congratulations on the braodening of your gens, Iulilla Magna; and
welcome to Nova Roma, Tiberius Marcellus!

Valete bene,

Cato

> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
> <curatrix@v...> wrote:
> > Villa Ivlilla StationeryJulilla Sempronia Magna omnibus SPD
> >
> > I'm a tad late in announcing the 13th member to join gens
> Sempronius.
> >
> > Titus Sempronius Marcellus hails from Lacus Magni (Wisconsin)

and

> is
> > interested in the Religio, politics, culture, reenactment, Latin
> and
> > history.
> >
> > Please make him welcome!
> >
> > ---
> > @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> > |||| materfamilias,
> > @____@ Gens Sempronia
> > |||| www.villaivlilla.com/GensSempronia
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollónius Cordus omnibus sal.

After a little more reading I can give you a slightly
fuller account of the oaths required of Roman
magistrates; there may well be more evidence to be
found, but for the moment all my avenues of research
are exhausted.

1. The first oath was apparently taken immediately
after the elections were over. Pliny (Panegyric 64),
speaking of Trajan's oath, says that the electoral
ceremonies were over ("perácta erant sollemnia
comitiórum") and the crowd (of voters) was dispersing
("omnis turba commoverat"). Greenidge ("Roman Public
Life") suggests that it occurred before the presiding
magistrate's formal announcement of the results
(renúntiátió), but I can't find any evidence for this,
and it seems more likely that it occurred after the
renúntiátió.

The oath was administered by the presiding magistrate,
who sat in the curule chair and spoke the words of the
oath to the elected candidate, who, standing, then
repeated the words. The only direct evidence for the
content of this oath is from Pliny (loc. cit.), who
mentions only the execrátió in indirect speech: "caput
suum domum suam, sí scienter fefellisset, deórum irae
consecraret" ("he consigned his life and his property
to the anger of the gods if he knowingly broke his
oath"). The content of the main part of the oath I
haven't been able to discover. It is not clear whether
this oath was taken by anyone other than the
cónsulés-elect.

2. Livy XXI.63.7-8 seems to imply that the cónsulés,
and perhaps other magistrates, made "sollemnem vótórum
nuncupátiónem" ("ritual pronouncement of vows") as
part of the ceremonies at the capitoline temple of
Juppiter Optimus Máximus on the first day of the
political year (the 1st of January in the late
republic). These are presumably the same as the vows
"pró incolumitáte reí públicae" ("for the safety of
the republic") which are mentioned in Furneaux's notes
on Tacitus' Annals IV.70.1 and IV.17.1, though I
haven't been able to find Furneaux's source for this
phrase.

3. Pliny (Panegyric 65) also mentions an oath "in
légés" (literally "into the laws", i.e. an oath to
obey the laws"), saying that it was done on the
róstrum in the forum. Appian's Civil Wars I.4 mentions
one particular léx which included a clause requiring
magistrates to swear obedience to it within five days
or else lose their office; this oath, he says, was
administered at "the temple of Saturn, where the
quaestors were accustomed to administer oaths". Livy
XXXI.49.7-8 says that in 200 B.C. one of the
newly-elected aedílés curúlés, "because he was flámen
Diális, was unable to take the oath to obey the laws;
no one was permitted to hold a magistracy for more
than five days who did not swear to obey the laws"
("quia flámen Diális erat, júráre in légés nón
poterat; magistrátum plús quínque diébus, nisi quí
júrasset in légés, nón licébat gerere").

If we take these three texts together, we seem to have
evidence of an oath to obey the laws (possibly
including some specific laws by name) which a new
magistrate must swear within five days of taking
office or else be deprived of office again, and which
is administered by the quaestórés at the temple of
Saturn. Pliny's statement that the oath was taken on
the róstrum is only slightly at odds with Appian's
reference to the temple of Saturn, since the temple
was directly next to the róstra; either Pliny is being
imprecise, or else perhaps he means that Trajan
combined his oath with an address to the people in
contió (certainly it was customary for new cónsulés to
hold a contió soon after being elected in order to set
out their plans for the year); a third possibility
(see under 4 below) is that the oath was originally
administered by the quaestórés at the temple, but that
this changed at some time between the time of Marius
and that of Ciceró and that in Ciceró's time it was
taken on the róstrum at a contió before or after a
speech.

Livy helps us to be sure that this oath was taken by
the aedílés curúlés as well as by the cónsulés; it
must certainly therefore also have been taken by the
praetórés, and probably by the cénsórés also. Since it
was administered by the quaestórés (perhaps each
quaestor to his own magistrate?), it is hard to know
whether they themselves also took the oath, and, if
so, who administered it to them. Possibly they were
not expected to take it, since they performed their
duties under the supervision of superior magistrates
and were therefore not independent magistrates in the
same way as the others, but this is pure speculation
on my part. Whether the plebeian magistrates took the
oath is hard to decide; on the one hand, if the
aedílés curúlés took it, it would seem logical for the
aedílés plébis to take it also; on the other, there
are other examples of ritual requirements (such as the
taking of auspices) which did not apply to plebeian
magistrates.

Livy goes on to say (XXXI.49.8-10) that a solution was
found "ut légibus solverétur" ("so that he [the
aedile] might be exempted from the [requirement of]
laws"): the senate advised him to find someone who
would take the oath on his behalf, and advised the
cónsulés to ask the tribúní plébis to propose a
plébiscítum declaring the requirement satisfactorily
fulfilled. Now, Livy was no constitutional scholar,
and he does not always use his legal terms precisely;
but the fact that he talks about the aedile being
excused from the légés ("légibus solverétur") suggests
that the júsjúrandum in légés was not only a customary
but a statutory requirement. This is confirmed by the
fact that a senátúscónsultum was not sufficient to
waive the requirement: the concilium plébis had to
pass a plébiscítum declaring that the requirement had
been satisfied. So it seems that there was some
specific léx, or group of légés, which required this
oath to be sworn within five days on pain of loss of
office.

4. That cónsulés, and probably whatever other
magistrates took the júsjúrandum in légés, were
required also to "éjúráre magistrátum" ("swear away
the magistracy") by making an oath at the end of their
term of office. The oath is mentioned by Pliny
(Panegyric 65), who says that Trajan swore "[s]e nihil
contrá légés fécisse" ("that [he] had done nothing
contrary to the laws"). He implies again that this
oath was taken on the róstra. Ciceró mentions in
several places his own magistrátum éjúrátió (ad fam.
V.2.7; pró Sulla 34; in Pisónem 6; dé Domó 35.94),
which we can therefore reconstruct with some detail.
It was taken at a great contió ("in máximá contióne" -
pró Sulla 34; "in contióne" - in Pisónem 6) at which a
large number of people were present ("populus Rómánus
úniversus illá in contióne" he says at in Pisónem 7,
"the whole Roman populus at that contió", though of
course he is exaggerating), therefore probably in the
forum. He expected to make a speech, but a tribúnus
plébis prevented him from saying anything more than
the bare oath ("dícere á tribúnó plébis prohibérer ea
quae constitueram... is mihí tantum modo ut júrárem
permitteret", "by a tribune of the plebs I was
forbidden to say that which I had planned... he
allowed me only to swear the oath" - in Pisónem 6). He
then swore, evidently departing from the usual wording
of the oath, that he had saved the republic ("júráví
rem públicam atque hanc urbem meá únius operá esse
salvam", "I swore that the republic and this city had
been saved by my efforts alone" - in Pisónem 6-7).

Both Ciceró and Pliny appear to place the taking of
the oath in the forum, and Ciceró clearly expected to
make a speech about his consulate before laying down
his office; and both clearly indicate that the office
ceased immediately upon the swearing of the oath. It
seems, then, that this oath, unlike the júsjúrandum in
légés, was not in Ciceró's time administered by the
quaestórés at the temple of Saturn; and, if we imagine
that it was taken in the same way as the júsjúrandum
in légés (as Pliny seems to imagine), this may suggest
that by Ciceró's time both oaths were taken on the
róstrum at a contió, and that the magistrate usually
took the opportunity to make a speech at the same
time. But it should be noted that the two oaths may
not have been entirely equivalent.

There is no evidence to help us discover whether the
éjúrátió magistrátum was a statutory requirement like
the júrátió in légés. The fact that the tribúnus did
not stop Ciceró taking the oath, although he did stop
him making a speech, suggests that the oath was in
some way more essential than the speech, and may
perhaps suggest that it was a legal requirement, but
this is not very strong evidence. On the other side,
we may note that failure to take the júrátió in légés
was punished by the loss of office; it is hard to
imagine what the equivalent penalty could have been
for failing to make the éjúrátió.


Well, folks, that's all I have to say on the subject.
Any light anyone else can shed on the matter would be
most welcome! As for what we do about it, I would
certainly support a move toward a more historical
oath, or oaths, of office based on the various oaths
I've mentioned here.





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A. Apollónius Cordus omnibus candidátís sal.

Thank you very much to all the candidates who took the
time to answer my questions. Your answers, and, in
some ways more importantly, the way you approached the
questions, have helped me to make up my mind whom to
vote for, especially among those of you I don't
already know. Thanks again.



___________________________________________________________
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Salve;
I think to call one of the hardest working magistrates in Nova
Roma 'churlish' is not very diplomatic or even accurate.

This American would like to see one part of the U.S as active as
Provincia Italia. And they are hosting an incredible Conventus in
Rome this summer for all Nova Romans.

Apulus Caesar, deserves the respect; he earned it.
vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.
>
> Oh come now.
>
> to
> get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your input
> as a Tribune is a little churlish.
>
>

A. Apollónius Cordus P. Minió Albució Ser. Equitió
Trojánó omnibusque sal.

Let's recap our position up to now. I am advancing the
suggestion that "factió" in republican Latin cannot
mean "a group" or "a faction". Albucí, you contest
that. Correct?

We have looked at an extract from Livy, in which
"factió" could plausibly mean, as I suggest,
"factionalism" or "partisanship" or "the dominance of
a single group", or, as you, Albucí, suggest, "a
group" or "a faction". It proves nothing in either
direction, so we need help from other usages.

We have looked at an extract from Plautus, in which
"factió" could mean, as I suggest, "deed" or "action",
or, as you suggest, "plot" or "swindle". It is true,
Trojáne amíce, that the English word "plot" suggests a
group of plotters doing the plotting, but that clearly
cannot be the case in this particular passage, since
only two people are participating in the conversation,
and they are arguing about a debt. So in fact this
rather rules out Albucius' translation of "plot",
since only one person is involved. But "swindle"
remains plausible. But, either way, there is no way
"factió" can possibly mean "gang" or "group" in this
passage.

We have looked at an extract from Apulejus, in which
"factió" could mean, as I suggest, "domination by a
small group", or, as you, Albucí, suggest, "a gang".
Since both translations fit the sense of the passage
perfectly well, this passage again proves nothing
either way.

Surely if "factió" can mean "gang" or "faction" then
someone must be able to find at least one passage of
classical Latin in which it clearly means that and
nothing else?



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Salve Maior.

Well isn't that the same sort of subjective comparison that he
himself objected to? What about all the other magistrates? Are they
not equally hard working? Just because someone is hard working surely
doesn't exempt them from ever having their comments examined?

In my opinion it was churlish to take issue with an endorsement on
the grounds he did. Palladius himself doubted their value, but as he
stated it is traditional to do so, he gave his. If we all start
picking apart each other's endorsements we will still be going
hard "at it" come summer.

Let everyone give their endorsements and anyone remotely interested
can read them and judge for themselves.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve;
> I think to call one of the hardest working magistrates in Nova
> Roma 'churlish' is not very diplomatic or even accurate.
>
> This American would like to see one part of the U.S as active as
> Provincia Italia. And they are hosting an incredible Conventus in
> Rome this summer for all Nova Romans.
>
> Apulus Caesar, deserves the respect; he earned it.
> vale
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.
> >
> > Oh come now.
> >
> > to
> > get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your
input
> > as a Tribune is a little churlish.
> >
> >

SAlve Fabiana,

thank you for your fine words, but I don't want respect only for me,
I would respect for the hard job of all the Tribunes: Modius
Athanasius, Arminius Faustus, Sempronia Magna and Galerius Paulinus.

During the outgoing year we all worked seriously on very hard
situation, we discussed, we disagreed, we fought between us, we
agreed and found the best solutions... but ever with the same level
of seriousness. I think nobody joked or worked less...

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve;
> I think to call one of the hardest working magistrates in Nova
> Roma 'churlish' is not very diplomatic or even accurate.
>
> This American would like to see one part of the U.S as active as
> Provincia Italia. And they are hosting an incredible Conventus in
> Rome this summer for all Nova Romans.
>
> Apulus Caesar, deserves the respect; he earned it.
> vale
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.
> >
> > Oh come now.
> >
> > to
> > get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your
input
> > as a Tribune is a little churlish.
> >
> >

Salve Caesar,

> Oh come now.
>
> You know full well that endorsements are just that. An

endorsement.

> They are based on many factors, not least "gut" instinct as well
> as "evidence", as the person giving (or witholding) the

endorsement

> sees fit to describe actions and/or inactions.
>
> You may not like or agree with the endorsements of Palladius but

to

> get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your

input

> as a Tribune is a little churlish.

Caesar, I'm not criticing the endorsement about Paulinus, everyone
here is free to talk about and support the favourite candidate.
I would like to know only what are "factors" of Palladius permitting
him to claim that Paulinus worked more seriously than Athanasius,
Julilla, Faustus and me.

I'm sure Paulinus worked very seriously, but I'm sure that all the
Tribunes did the same.
The endorsement by Palladius doesn't reduce my job, I'm not
interesting in this opinion because I think to have worked
seriously. His endorsement reduces the very hard and serious job of
all the Tribunes.

Caesar, the endorsements are not a joke, they are not "messages in
the bottle" leaved in the ocean...
Personally, I would read critics to the job of the Magistrates only
if presented with serious and correct information about it.

> For example - I de-endorse the European Union. I find that the
> European Union is an organised gang of professional swindlers who
> have spent the last 30 years extorting taxes from more efficient
> nations to pay for inefficient ones, spending money on lavish
> junkets and encouraging wasteful and corrupt fiscal practices.

That

> is based not just on "gut" - but on cold hard evidence of years of
> waste and bureaucratic tomfoolery.

Caesar, there is a BIG difference between the own opinion about a
matter like the EU and the critics about a Nova Roman Office.
You are free to think what you want about the European Union as I'm
free to critic hardly the american government of Bush, the poltiical
chooses by Blair and Berlusconi, the war, the peace in the world,
the agreement of Kyoto, the international affairs of the biggest
Nations, the internal affair of USA influenced the life of our
organization...
But this is macro-politics and it's different by the personal
critics about our own job without correct information.

I don't understand why you're talking about an off-topical matter
comparing it to the comments by Palladius...

> I mention this as I note your
> continued obsession with running off to these charlatans cap in

hand

> for some "whopping" great fiscal grant.

Is it "my continued obsession"? Here I talked only about the
opportunities offered by European Union?
I would think that many people here have "continued obsession" about
the war in Iraq, the Superbowl, the american shuttle, etc.
Sometimes I talked about Eu and I putted it in my consular program
because I think EU could give to NR new opportunities for real live
and serious projects, because the people called "charlatans" by you
couldn't influence the life of NR in Europe, because the "fiscal
grant" is decided and imposed by each Nations and not by
this "charlatans".
I think EU could give us excellent opportunities because I know them
and I work in EU... If you don't think it, please don't vote for me.
But please, don't claim that my job (and the job of the other
Tribunes) for NR wasn't serious if you haven't correct and detailed
information.

> You are entitled to believe otherwise - just as I am to hold the
> view of the EU that I do. Palladius is entitled to endorse who he
> sees fit, or not. He doesn't have to justify those endorsements

any

> more than you do.

Caesar, Palladius is fully free to endorse his favourite candidate,
I'm not criticing it or your bad opinion about EU. We all are free
cives luckly.
I would like only to know on what information and factors Palladius
is sure that the other Tribunes worked less seriously than Paulinus.

This is not ny defense, this is respect for all the Tribunes which
worked hardly.

Further comments and words are not useful...

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus

Salve Gaius Popillius Laenas:

I wish to express my gratitude to you for your support of my
candidacy for the office of Quaestor. Indeed, I do wish to serve
the needs of our Republic. Thank You for your confidence, and for
your vote and support.

Vale:

Q. Bianchius Rufinus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I wish to add one more name to my list of recommendations for
> Quaestor:
>
> Quintus Bianchius Rufinus
>
> He is amamber of a fine gens and ready to begin his carrer of

public

> service in Nova Roma.
>
> Valete,
>
> G. Popillius Laenas

Salve Caesar,

you're fully free to think that it was churlish to want to know the
factors which permitted to Palladius to claim that teh other
Tribunes worked less seriously.

I would like only to know this factors, is it churlish for you? ok,
it's your opinion, not mine.

Thank you very much.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Maior.
>
> Well isn't that the same sort of subjective comparison that he
> himself objected to? What about all the other magistrates? Are

they

> not equally hard working? Just because someone is hard working

surely

> doesn't exempt them from ever having their comments examined?
>
> In my opinion it was churlish to take issue with an endorsement on
> the grounds he did. Palladius himself doubted their value, but as

he

> stated it is traditional to do so, he gave his. If we all start
> picking apart each other's endorsements we will still be going
> hard "at it" come summer.
>
> Let everyone give their endorsements and anyone remotely

interested

> can read them and judge for themselves.
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve;
> > I think to call one of the hardest working magistrates in Nova
> > Roma 'churlish' is not very diplomatic or even accurate.
> >
> > This American would like to see one part of the U.S as active

as

> > Provincia Italia. And they are hosting an incredible Conventus

in

> > Rome this summer for all Nova Romans.
> >
> > Apulus Caesar, deserves the respect; he earned it.
> > vale
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.
> > >
> > > Oh come now.
> > >
> > > to
> > > get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your
> input
> > > as a Tribune is a little churlish.
> > >
> > >

Salvete,

Roman people of the quirites, I have done a terrible mistaken when I
have put my endorsements. I have mistakenly missed the Curule Aediles
during the text writting for some unknown PC reason. I have realized
this only now - more than never I come to you to support these too
giants, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus and Lucius Iulius Sulla...
quae sera tandem...

What I could say about them, if been honest, hard-working, deep-
lovers of Rome, followers of our laws, isnt enought? What could I say
more? So I say this and I deeply ask your votes to them. Pius did a
wonderful job as curator aranea. And Iulius Sulla as the key of all
works on provincia Italia, and a wonderful Quaestor!

The Curule Aediles are the key of the good management of this
republic, and they will help the magistrates to undertake all reforms
we so badly need.

OCTAVIUS PIUS!
IULIUS SULLA!

May the gods of Rome bless these two candidates on their Curso
Honorum for the good of this Republic.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus

And now all the Curule Magistrates to vote!

STRABO AND CAESAR FOR CONSULES!
PERUSIANUS AND FAUSTUS FOR PRAETOR!
MARINUS FOR CENSOR!
IULIUS SULLA AND OCTAVIUS PIUS FOR CURULE AEDILES!

"the american government of Bush, the poltiical chooses by Blair and Berlusconi, the war, the peace in the world, the agreement of Kyoto, the international affairs of the biggest Nations, the internal affair of USA influenced the life of our organization..."

--Kinda like how European stupidty allowed the Rwanda genocide, how they are botching Darfur, How the French military has murdered civilians in the Ivory Coast, how Europe was taking kickbacks from Saddam? Tell me why have a show-trial for Milosevic but not Saddam? Why Nuremburg (6 million) but not get Stalin (10 million)? Why did Mao and many other barbarians get away scot free while Europe failed to act time and again? We also have European incompetence to thank for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Kyoto is garbage and won't work. You think Iran is going to foloow your farsical Uranium enrichment deal? Your kidding yourself. Learn to act and not APPEASE!!!! U.N. is a mess and outlived its purpose. If you don't like off-topic issues why raise more then? You should've let it alone.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Thank you very much to Censor Quintilianus and G. Iuli Scaurus for
theit confidence in my bid for Quaestor. Their input means a lot to
me and I shall be sure to meet their expectations.


Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve Caesar.

I haven't a clue what factors prompted Palladius to write as he did.
It is enough for me that he did. An endorsement is an endorsement and
comming from Palladius I for one am happy to treat it as carved in
stone. Of course I doubt you view it that way.

Since that probably won't satify you let me take a wild stab in the
dark at why; purely speculation on my own part.

The office of tribune was and should be as a protector against the
oppressive machinations of magistrates, so that someone in need has
someone to turn to in times of trouble. Perhaps standing up for a
citizen under imminent threat is more what a tribune should concern
himself/herself with than let us say, hypothetically of course,
acting as a biased de-facto prosecutor? Perhaps Palladius saw shadows
of those noble tribunes of old in him?

As to the EU example, anything that potentially involves NR being
dependant on a "foreign power" is of concern. I didn't realise you
actually worked for the EU directly. Maybe it would be better,
visually, if you didn't advocate for applying to the EU for grants.
We would want to avoid the suggestion of a conflict of interest at
all costs, wouldn't we?

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Caesar,
>
> you're fully free to think that it was churlish to want to know the
> factors which permitted to Palladius to claim that teh other
> Tribunes worked less seriously.
>
> I would like only to know this factors, is it churlish for you? ok,
> it's your opinion, not mine.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Maior.
> >
> > Well isn't that the same sort of subjective comparison that he
> > himself objected to? What about all the other magistrates? Are
> they
> > not equally hard working? Just because someone is hard working
> surely
> > doesn't exempt them from ever having their comments examined?
> >
> > In my opinion it was churlish to take issue with an endorsement

on

> > the grounds he did. Palladius himself doubted their value, but as
> he
> > stated it is traditional to do so, he gave his. If we all start
> > picking apart each other's endorsements we will still be going
> > hard "at it" come summer.
> >
> > Let everyone give their endorsements and anyone remotely
> interested
> > can read them and judge for themselves.
> >
> > Vale
> > Caesar
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve;
> > > I think to call one of the hardest working magistrates in Nova
> > > Roma 'churlish' is not very diplomatic or even accurate.
> > >
> > > This American would like to see one part of the U.S as active
> as
> > > Provincia Italia. And they are hosting an incredible Conventus
> in
> > > Rome this summer for all Nova Romans.
> > >
> > > Apulus Caesar, deserves the respect; he earned it.
> > > vale
> > > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> > > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve Senator Apulus Caesar.
> > > >
> > > > Oh come now.
> > > >
> > > > to
> > > > get hyper-sensitive because you think he somehow reduces your
> > input
> > > > as a Tribune is a little churlish.
> > > >
> > > >

Salvete omnes,

I would suggest that discussions of macro politics would be best held
off this list.

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas
Praetor

Salve Praetor.

If it were purely a debate about politics then I would agree.

Any time there is a proposal however to formally link this Res
publica with a macronational power/entity, through an application for
financial assistance, then I believe the fundamental nature of that
entity, warts an all, is relevant to the discussion of whether Nova
Roma should entertain the equivalent of diplomatic relations with
them.

Obviously though, I place myself at your direction on this matter. I
am satisfied for myself that there is little more than can be
achieved in this thread.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I would suggest that discussions of macro politics would be best

held

> off this list.
>
> Valete,
>
> G. Popillius Laenas
> Praetor

Salve Gnae Iuli et salvete omnes,

Actually I was referring to post #31109, which I think is taking us in
the wrong direction.

Valete,

Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Praetor.
>
> If it were purely a debate about politics then I would agree.
>
> Any time there is a proposal however to formally link this Res
> publica with a macronational power/entity, through an application for
> financial assistance, then I believe the fundamental nature of that
> entity, warts an all, is relevant to the discussion of whether Nova
> Roma should entertain the equivalent of diplomatic relations with
> them.
>
> Obviously though, I place myself at your direction on this matter. I
> am satisfied for myself that there is little more than can be
> achieved in this thread.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I would suggest that discussions of macro politics would be best
> held
> > off this list.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > G. Popillius Laenas
> > Praetor

Salvete Quirites;
whilst a discussion of the pros and cons of each candidate is more
than fine, I must insist that all fighting and macronational
unpleasantness cease in honour of Saturnalia.

It is our state holiday as announced by our Consul Marinus and in
these 7 days we are to merrymake, all fighting cease,

I give all Saturnalia greetings from myself and dear
gensbrother Lucius Arminius Faustus

IO SATURNALIA!

M. Arminia Maior Fabiana
candidate for Tribuna Plebis

Please do not mistake Caesar for me....
Cornelianus

gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@...> wrote:

Salve Gnae Iuli et salvete omnes,

Actually I was referring to post #31109, which I think is taking us in
the wrong direction.

Valete,

Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Praetor.
>
> If it were purely a debate about politics then I would agree.
>
> Any time there is a proposal however to formally link this Res
> publica with a macronational power/entity, through an application for
> financial assistance, then I believe the fundamental nature of that
> entity, warts an all, is relevant to the discussion of whether Nova
> Roma should entertain the equivalent of diplomatic relations with
> them.
>
> Obviously though, I place myself at your direction on this matter. I
> am satisfied for myself that there is little more than can be
> achieved in this thread.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I would suggest that discussions of macro politics would be best
> held
> > off this list.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > G. Popillius Laenas
> > Praetor

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Salvete Romani! Wanting to wish everyone a IO
SATVRNALIA!!! Wear the Pileus and Synthesis! IO
SATVRNALIA!!! Frater GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, Flamen
Florealis, Senior Paterfamilias Gentis Iuliae



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Salve Corneliane,

I haven't ;-).

Vale,

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:

> Please do not mistake Caesar for me....
> Cornelianus<<

AVETE CIVES ROMANI

A few words to thank all the Cives that are endorsing me for these
elections: one more time, I thank all of you and, if elected, I'll
put al my engagement and my knowledge to serve Nova Roma in the
right way.
I specially thank G Iulius Scaurus, a man that I hope we'll see soon
among us.

I want to spend a few more words about the office I'm trying to
reach with these elections: if elected I can give Nova Roma
something that other Cives, because of the geography, cannot assure:
if elected Curule Aedilis, I'll try to be assigned to the Magna
Mater project.
As you know, each year one among the Curules Aediles works to this
project of restoration.

I belong to the Cohors of this year Aedilis M Iulius Perusianus,
that I can say among my dearest friends in Nova Roma, and so I had
the chance to work all this year inside and for this project. I know
what we do want from this project and what we would like to reach.
Finally, I live very close to Roma (about 2.5 hrs. by car), and I go
there almost every month for my work! For this I ask your votes,
Cives Romani!

OPTIME VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Quaestor
Rector Academiae Italicae
Candidate for the Aedileship Curule

Salve Cordus -

On Dec 17, 2004, at 12:20 PM, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> Surely if "factió" can mean "gang" or "faction" then
> someone must be able to find at least one passage of
> classical Latin in which it clearly means that and
> nothing else?

Happy hunting!
Wouldn't it be nice if the Loeb Classics Library were entirely online,
with a "word search" option?

Vale
- Troianus
>

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

Agreed.

Every one of the tribunes worked hard this year. It was a rough year, at
least for me. But we made it, and no one resigned. That is a good thing.

Hats off to my fellow tribunes.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 12/17/2004 1:06:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
sacro_barese_impero@... writes:

SAlve Fabiana,

thank you for your fine words, but I don't want respect only for me,
I would respect for the hard job of all the Tribunes: Modius
Athanasius, Arminius Faustus, Sempronia Magna and Galerius Paulinus.

During the outgoing year we all worked seriously on very hard
situation, we discussed, we disagreed, we fought between us, we
agreed and found the best solutions... but ever with the same level
of seriousness. I think nobody joked or worked less...

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

You know with a tutorial like this and others that they have provided we really should be paying our resident scholars like A. Apollonius Cordus and G. Iulius Scaurus BIG BUCKS/POUNDS.

Nova Roma is many things but at times, It is simply an education and one at the post Graduate level at that.

My sincere Thanks to A. Apollonius Cordus and G. Iulius Scaurus for all that you teach us.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus<mailto:a_apollonius_cordus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Final report on the historical oath(s) of office


A. Apollónius Cordus omnibus sal.

After a little more reading I can give you a slightly
fuller account of the oaths required of Roman
magistrates; there may well be more evidence to be
found, but for the moment all my avenues of research
are exhausted.

1. The first oath was apparently taken immediately
after the elections were over. Pliny (Panegyric 64),
speaking of Trajan's oath, says that the electoral
ceremonies were over ("perácta erant sollemnia
comitiórum") and the crowd (of voters) was dispersing
("omnis turba commoverat"). Greenidge ("Roman Public
Life") suggests that it occurred before the presiding
magistrate's formal announcement of the results
(renúntiátió), but I can't find any evidence for this,
and it seems more likely that it occurred after the
renúntiátió.

The oath was administered by the presiding magistrate,
who sat in the curule chair and spoke the words of the
oath to the elected candidate, who, standing, then
repeated the words. The only direct evidence for the
content of this oath is from Pliny (loc. cit.), who
mentions only the execrátió in indirect speech: "caput
suum domum suam, sí scienter fefellisset, deórum irae
consecraret" ("he consigned his life and his property
to the anger of the gods if he knowingly broke his
oath"). The content of the main part of the oath I
haven't been able to discover. It is not clear whether
this oath was taken by anyone other than the
cónsulés-elect.

2. Livy XXI.63.7-8 seems to imply that the cónsulés,
and perhaps other magistrates, made "sollemnem vótórum
nuncupátiónem" ("ritual pronouncement of vows") as
part of the ceremonies at the capitoline temple of
Juppiter Optimus Máximus on the first day of the
political year (the 1st of January in the late
republic). These are presumably the same as the vows
"pró incolumitáte reí públicae" ("for the safety of
the republic") which are mentioned in Furneaux's notes
on Tacitus' Annals IV.70.1 and IV.17.1, though I
haven't been able to find Furneaux's source for this
phrase.

3. Pliny (Panegyric 65) also mentions an oath "in
légés" (literally "into the laws", i.e. an oath to
obey the laws"), saying that it was done on the
róstrum in the forum. Appian's Civil Wars I.4 mentions
one particular léx which included a clause requiring
magistrates to swear obedience to it within five days
or else lose their office; this oath, he says, was
administered at "the temple of Saturn, where the
quaestors were accustomed to administer oaths". Livy
XXXI.49.7-8 says that in 200 B.C. one of the
newly-elected aedílés curúlés, "because he was flámen
Diális, was unable to take the oath to obey the laws;
no one was permitted to hold a magistracy for more
than five days who did not swear to obey the laws"
("quia flámen Diális erat, júráre in légés nón
poterat; magistrátum plús quínque diébus, nisi quí
júrasset in légés, nón licébat gerere").

If we take these three texts together, we seem to have
evidence of an oath to obey the laws (possibly
including some specific laws by name) which a new
magistrate must swear within five days of taking
office or else be deprived of office again, and which
is administered by the quaestórés at the temple of
Saturn. Pliny's statement that the oath was taken on
the róstrum is only slightly at odds with Appian's
reference to the temple of Saturn, since the temple
was directly next to the róstra; either Pliny is being
imprecise, or else perhaps he means that Trajan
combined his oath with an address to the people in
contió (certainly it was customary for new cónsulés to
hold a contió soon after being elected in order to set
out their plans for the year); a third possibility
(see under 4 below) is that the oath was originally
administered by the quaestórés at the temple, but that
this changed at some time between the time of Marius
and that of Ciceró and that in Ciceró's time it was
taken on the róstrum at a contió before or after a
speech.

Livy helps us to be sure that this oath was taken by
the aedílés curúlés as well as by the cónsulés; it
must certainly therefore also have been taken by the
praetórés, and probably by the cénsórés also. Since it
was administered by the quaestórés (perhaps each
quaestor to his own magistrate?), it is hard to know
whether they themselves also took the oath, and, if
so, who administered it to them. Possibly they were
not expected to take it, since they performed their
duties under the supervision of superior magistrates
and were therefore not independent magistrates in the
same way as the others, but this is pure speculation
on my part. Whether the plebeian magistrates took the
oath is hard to decide; on the one hand, if the
aedílés curúlés took it, it would seem logical for the
aedílés plébis to take it also; on the other, there
are other examples of ritual requirements (such as the
taking of auspices) which did not apply to plebeian
magistrates.

Livy goes on to say (XXXI.49.8-10) that a solution was
found "ut légibus solverétur" ("so that he [the
aedile] might be exempted from the [requirement of]
laws"): the senate advised him to find someone who
would take the oath on his behalf, and advised the
cónsulés to ask the tribúní plébis to propose a
plébiscítum declaring the requirement satisfactorily
fulfilled. Now, Livy was no constitutional scholar,
and he does not always use his legal terms precisely;
but the fact that he talks about the aedile being
excused from the légés ("légibus solverétur") suggests
that the júsjúrandum in légés was not only a customary
but a statutory requirement. This is confirmed by the
fact that a senátúscónsultum was not sufficient to
waive the requirement: the concilium plébis had to
pass a plébiscítum declaring that the requirement had
been satisfied. So it seems that there was some
specific léx, or group of légés, which required this
oath to be sworn within five days on pain of loss of
office.

4. That cónsulés, and probably whatever other
magistrates took the júsjúrandum in légés, were
required also to "éjúráre magistrátum" ("swear away
the magistracy") by making an oath at the end of their
term of office. The oath is mentioned by Pliny
(Panegyric 65), who says that Trajan swore "[s]e nihil
contrá légés fécisse" ("that [he] had done nothing
contrary to the laws"). He implies again that this
oath was taken on the róstra. Ciceró mentions in
several places his own magistrátum éjúrátió (ad fam.
V.2.7; pró Sulla 34; in Pisónem 6; dé Domó 35.94),
which we can therefore reconstruct with some detail.
It was taken at a great contió ("in máximá contióne" -
pró Sulla 34; "in contióne" - in Pisónem 6) at which a
large number of people were present ("populus Rómánus
úniversus illá in contióne" he says at in Pisónem 7,
"the whole Roman populus at that contió", though of
course he is exaggerating), therefore probably in the
forum. He expected to make a speech, but a tribúnus
plébis prevented him from saying anything more than
the bare oath ("dícere á tribúnó plébis prohibérer ea
quae constitueram... is mihí tantum modo ut júrárem
permitteret", "by a tribune of the plebs I was
forbidden to say that which I had planned... he
allowed me only to swear the oath" - in Pisónem 6). He
then swore, evidently departing from the usual wording
of the oath, that he had saved the republic ("júráví
rem públicam atque hanc urbem meá únius operá esse
salvam", "I swore that the republic and this city had
been saved by my efforts alone" - in Pisónem 6-7).

Both Ciceró and Pliny appear to place the taking of
the oath in the forum, and Ciceró clearly expected to
make a speech about his consulate before laying down
his office; and both clearly indicate that the office
ceased immediately upon the swearing of the oath. It
seems, then, that this oath, unlike the júsjúrandum in
légés, was not in Ciceró's time administered by the
quaestórés at the temple of Saturn; and, if we imagine
that it was taken in the same way as the júsjúrandum
in légés (as Pliny seems to imagine), this may suggest
that by Ciceró's time both oaths were taken on the
róstrum at a contió, and that the magistrate usually
took the opportunity to make a speech at the same
time. But it should be noted that the two oaths may
not have been entirely equivalent.

There is no evidence to help us discover whether the
éjúrátió magistrátum was a statutory requirement like
the júrátió in légés. The fact that the tribúnus did
not stop Ciceró taking the oath, although he did stop
him making a speech, suggests that the oath was in
some way more essential than the speech, and may
perhaps suggest that it was a legal requirement, but
this is not very strong evidence. On the other side,
we may note that failure to take the júrátió in légés
was punished by the loss of office; it is hard to
imagine what the equivalent penalty could have been
for failing to make the éjúrátió.


Well, folks, that's all I have to say on the subject.
Any light anyone else can shed on the matter would be
most welcome! As for what we do about it, I would
certainly support a move toward a more historical
oath, or oaths, of office based on the various oaths
I've mentioned here.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes: I would like to announce my support for
Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo, and Gaius Popillius Laenas for the
very important position of Consul for the upcoming year. It is my
belief that both of these individual are highly qualified,
dedicated, and with a love for Nova Roma that will enable them to
give their best, and work hard for the betterment of Nova Roma and
all of Nova Roma's citizens.
I encourage everyone to give serious consideration to
supporting these honorable and worthy individuals in the elections.

Bene valete, Appius Tullius Cato
Senator

P. Minucia Tiberia Omnibus S.P.D.

I wish all of you a pleasant Feast of Saturnalia and the best of
fortune to you and your loved ones.

I shall be celebrating the next few days donned in a uniform for
the next 12 hours, alas, for :) or :(.....we shall see.

---P. Minucia Tiberia A. Tulli Catoni Senator Nova Roma S.P.D.

I am very greatful for your endorsement and support of me, Senator.
I thank you very much indeed.

Vale bene
Po


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "a_cato2002" <catoni52@s...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes: I would like to announce my support for
> Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo, and Gaius Popillius Laenas for the
> very important position of Consul for the upcoming year. It is my
> belief that both of these individual are highly qualified,
> dedicated, and with a love for Nova Roma that will enable them to
> give their best, and work hard for the betterment of Nova Roma and
> all of Nova Roma's citizens.
> I encourage everyone to give serious consideration to
> supporting these honorable and worthy individuals in the elections.
>
> Bene valete, Appius Tullius Cato
> Senator

L. Iulius Sulla wrote:

> I want to spend a few more words about the office
> I'm trying to
> reach with these elections: if elected I can give
> Nova Roma
> something that other Cives, because of the
> geography, cannot assure:
> if elected Curule Aedilis, I'll try to be assigned
> to the Magna
> Mater project.
> As you know, each year one among the Curules Aediles
> works to this
> project of restoration.

Tell you what - if you're not elected, I'll appoint
you as my scribe, and you can run the Magna Mater
project anyway.

Now you don't need to worry about that aspect of it at
all ;)

Livia


=====
C. Fabia Livia
Candidate for Curule Aedile



___________________________________________________________
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Salvete Quirites!

I wish You all a happy Saturnalia!

Salvete!
Greetings and salutations to all my fellow citizens in Nova Roma.
I have only been with you less then 6 months but I already consider
myself a part of this micronation. I am slowly learning all things
Roman such as language, politics, Arts and virtues. I trained as an
Anthropologist/Socialogist in College. Thank you all for your
assitance in my interests in this forum.
Valete
Iusta Sempronia Iustina

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:

>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Every one of the tribunes worked hard this year. It was a rough

year, at least for me. But we made it, and no one resigned. That
is a good thing.

>
> Hats off to my fellow tribunes.

And I doff my pileus to you and my fellow tribunes. It's been a
priviledge to serve and to serve with you.

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete omnes!

Woohoo! Io Saturnalia! We've got seven days of absolute non-
partisan, non-factio, non-anything merriment to make :-)

Valete bene,

Cato

A. Apollónius Cordus C. Fabiae Líviae suae omnibusque
sal.

Július Sulla wrote:

> > I want to spend a few more words about the office
> > I'm trying to
> > reach with these elections: if elected I can give
> > Nova Roma
> > something that other Cives, because of the
> > geography, cannot assure:
> > if elected Curule Aedilis, I'll try to be assigned
> > to the Magna
> > Mater project.
> > As you know, each year one among the Curules
> Aediles
> > works to this
> > project of restoration.

You replied:

> Tell you what - if you're not elected, I'll appoint
> you as my scribe, and you can run the Magna Mater
> project anyway.

If that doesn't work, perhaps we ought to make a
formal constitutional amendment saying that one curule
aedile every year must be Italian; that way we don't
have to keep pretending that it's a lucky
coincidence... ;)





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In a message dated 12/16/04 4:04:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
MarcusAudens@... writes:

> What is a Caltrop? What is it's purpose and what is it
> made of. Those who have a copy of this manual, of course will know the
> answer, so let's let some of the others take a guess.
>
>

I don't need a manual to know the answer to this. More to the point, when
was the caltrop first attested to, and what does the name mean?

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/16/04 4:56:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
christer.edling@... writes:

> I fully support Gnaeus Marinus as Censor!
>

Umm has it come to your attention, he is running unopposed?

I thought not.

Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/17/04 9:07:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:

> 2. Livy XXI.63.7-8 seems to imply that the cónsulés,
> and perhaps other magistrates, made "sollemnem vótórum
> nuncupátiónem" ("ritual pronouncement of vows") as
> part of the ceremonies at the capitoline temple of
> Juppiter Optimus Máximus on the first day of the
> political year (the 1st of January in the late
> republic).
>

This was, I thought, the basis for the oath being taken by our magistrates in
Nova Roma.
Did you notice the penalty for breaking such an oath?

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollónius Cordus Q. Fabió Máximó omnibusque sal.

> > 2. Livy XXI.63.7-8 seems to imply that the
> cónsulés,
> > and perhaps other magistrates, made "sollemnem
> vótórum
> > nuncupátiónem" ("ritual pronouncement of vows") as
> > part of the ceremonies at the capitoline temple of
> > Juppiter Optimus Máximus on the first day of the
> > political year (the 1st of January in the late
> > republic).
>
> This was, I thought, the basis for the oath being
> taken by our magistrates in
> Nova Roma.
> Did you notice the penalty for breaking such an
> oath?

For breaking the ones made at the temple of J.O.M.?
No, I didn't find any reference to that penalty, nor
even to the content of the vótórum nuncupátió. I'd be
very grateful for any citations you have on the subject.



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C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix S.P.D.

Salvete.

Stephen Gallagher wrote:

>Salve Romans
>
>You know with a tutorial like this and others that they have provided we really should be paying our resident scholars like A. Apollonius Cordus and G. Iulius Scaurus BIG BUCKS/POUNDS.
>
>Nova Roma is many things but at times, It is simply an education and one at the post Graduate level at that.
>
>My sincere Thanks to A. Apollonius Cordus and G. Iulius Scaurus for all that you teach us.
>
>

I'll second that. Great report Cordus - once again you succeed in making
the rest of us feel dumb *lol*! ^_~

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix

>Vale
>
>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>

Salve Iusta Sempronia!

shiarraeltradaik wrote:

>
> Salvete!
> Greetings and salutations to all my fellow citizens in Nova Roma.

Always a pleasure to welcome another Sempronia. Io Saturnalia!

Vale,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

Salvete Quirites, et salve Quinte Fabi,

QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:

> when was the caltrop first attested to, and what does the name mean?

The earliest use of caltrops I can find as portable 'chevaux de frise'
anti-cavalry impediments. Ahmed Ibn Arabshah reported that Timur (aka
Tamerlane) used caltrops against elephants in India in 1398.

The caltrop as a weapon is so named because it looks like the Star thistle,
Centaurea calcitrapa, whose Latin name calcitrapa means foot trap.

(With a tip of the old straw hat to Wikipedia.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop

Valete quirites,

--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

In a message dated 12/17/04 7:08:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gawne@... writes:

> The caltrop as a weapon is so named because it looks like the Star thistle,
>
> Centaurea calcitrapa, whose Latin name calcitrapa means foot trap.
>

Excellent.

They are first attested to in Roman use in the battle of Nisiblis 217 CE
where the Romans use them to stop a Parthian Cataphract Camel charge. I forgot
the author, I believe it is Zosimus, or Dio Cassius

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

L. Fidelius Graecus quirites S.P.D.

Salvete omnes!

I too want to extend greetings of this most joyous season to all
Romans. May the divine blessings find us and this noble republic in
good cheer and our holidays be a herald of a peaceful and prosperous
new year to come.

Optime valete,

-- L. Fidelius Graecus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete Romani! Wanting to wish everyone a IO
> SATVRNALIA!!! Wear the Pileus and Synthesis! IO

Salve Q. Fabius Maximus -

On Dec 17, 2004, at 8:58 PM, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
> Umm has it come to your attention, he is running unopposed?
>
So what?
What does that have to do with endorsing someone?
"I like Candidate A!" is just as valid if "A" is the only Candidate or
one among twenty.

Vale
- Troianus

Salvete, omnes -

Just a reminder for anyone in Gens Minucia-Tiberius: if you'd like to
join the gens discussion list, here are the contact addresses -

Post message: gens_minucia-tiberius@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: gens_minucia-tiberius-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: gens_minucia-tiberius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: gens_minucia-tiberius-owner@yahoogroups.com

Join us as we unscrew the inscrutable, save innocent young dragons from
ravening maidens, measure precisely how much fun is contained in a
barrelful of monkeys, and perform stunning feats of derring-do... even
though none of us owns a derring-do (I suspect it's lying on the shelf
next to the round tuit.) See you there!


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt.
The sky, and not his soul, changes the one who runs across the sea.
-- Horace, "Epistulae"

AVETE OMNES

> Tell you what - if you're not elected, I'll appoint
> you as my scribe, and you can run the Magna Mater
> project anyway.

Thank you, Livia, but after 18 months in which I've been involved as
a Scribe in this project, I'd like to show everybody I got the
qualities to lead it!

> Now you don't need to worry about that aspect of it at
> all ;)

Not worried anyway. If you'll be elected, you have to come to Rome
almost every month, I guess (I would do so); in any case, this is
the homepage of a pretty good low-cost airplane company, just give a
look!

http://www.terravision.it/news_promotions.html

VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Quaestor
Candidate for the Aedileship Curule

> Livia
>
>
> =====
> C. Fabia Livia
> Candidate for Curule Aedile
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

AVETE CIVES ROMANI

> > Tell you what - if you're not elected, I'll appoint
> > you as my scribe, and you can run the Magna Mater
> > project anyway.
>
> If that doesn't work, perhaps we ought to make a
> formal constitutional amendment saying that one curule
> aedile every year must be Italian; that way we don't
> have to keep pretending that it's a lucky
> coincidence... ;)

Well, it seems like someone has something to say about how Italians
followed this project? Infact, the last two Aediles (Ill.i Fr Apulus
Caesar and M Iul Perusianus) were Italians, but they were elected
with the Comitia Populi tributa. Or maybe someone has something to
say about these electoral results, of the last two years? Who knows?

Anyway, everybody can see the good job that the two last Aediles did
in their duties of Aediles, and for the project of Magna Mater.
You can visit our website here:

http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/ludi/templemagnamater.htm

or here:

http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/cohortis/MagnaMater2_eng.htm

I want to spend a few more words about these extraordinary Cives,
that are following a wonderful Cursus Honorum in Nova Roma, and this
year, as you know, are candidates for the Consulship and the
Praetorship. The project of Magna Mater Temple's restoration is just
one step in their great carreer, but one of the most impressive
indeed!

I'm just trying to follow their steps.

BENE VALETE
L IUL SULLA
Candidate for the Aedileship Curule

Ave Iuli Sulla amice,

> I want to spend a few more words about these extraordinary Cives,
> that are following a wonderful Cursus Honorum in Nova Roma, ...

it's my turn to say thank you for the kind words! :-)

And to have another chance to endorse you as Aedilis Curulis.

I think I'm going to draw on a wall in a vicus <<L IVL SULLA and T
OCTAVIVS PIVS for Aediles!>>

vale
M IVL PERVSIANVS
*** for Praetor *** at http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius/

SAlve Illustrus Cordus,

> If that doesn't work, perhaps we ought to make a
> formal constitutional amendment saying that one curule
> aedile every year must be Italian; that way we don't
> have to keep pretending that it's a lucky
> coincidence... ;)

The first Curule Aedilis of the Project Magna Mater is swedish, it
was Illustrus Caeso Fabius Quintilianus. I served him as Quaestor
supporting the creation of the Project...

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator et Tribunus

Salve Caesar,

> As to the EU example, anything that potentially involves NR being
> dependant on a "foreign power" is of concern.

I hope this discussion would be not off-topic...
Please, Caesar, explain me what mean for you "a foreign power"
involving NR. Would you mean NR should be only an american
organization for american citizens?
Please explain me as well as possible because your words sound me in
this way and I hope I'm wrong.

> I didn't realise you
> actually worked for the EU directly. Maybe it would be better,
> visually, if you didn't advocate for applying to the EU for

grants.

> We would want to avoid the suggestion of a conflict of interest at
> all costs, wouldn't we?

Sorry, Caesar, I don't work directly for the European Union. One of
societies where I work is an information desktop about the EU
programs for the youth. EU doesn't pay me but I know the basilar
information about the majority of the most popular financing
programs of the Union, The service, called Eurodesk, is free for
everyone (there is an Eurodesk in each european city) and it offers
favourite ways to meet partners, to know the latest programs and
activities, to check documents and materials, etc.
In any way I worked for 4 years in the Youth Information Center of
my Town Hall and I was specialized on information about the
opportunities for youth by the international Istitutions (Eu,
Unesco, Nato, British Council, Ministries, ESA, etc.)

Why my experience would be a conflict of interests?
I'm not dipendent of the EU and I suppose to be an advantage for
NR...
But if you are forced to think that this is a conflict of interests
and it could damage or destroy or give a disadvantage to our
organization, I'm ready to find a solution with you.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Marcus Iulius Perusianus wrote:

> And to have another chance to endorse you as Aedilis
> Curulis.
>
> I think I'm going to draw on a wall in a vicus <<L
> IVL SULLA and T
> OCTAVIVS PIVS for Aediles!>>

It's nice to see that you've decided on a second
candidate to vote for in the last two days (since you
made your endorsements). I'd be interested to know
what factors influenced your decision :)

Livia


=====
C. Fabia Livia
Candidate for Curule Aedile



___________________________________________________________
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Salve Caesar.

When I use the term foreign power I would include any macronational
government/entity/corporation on any side of any ocean, as opposed
to NR. The bottom line is if we seek grants there are usually
conditions attached, and even if the EU simply deposits large sums
with no preconditions, I don't think we should become reliant on
external funding from anyone. What we become should be based on our
collective genius to raise those funds independently of
macronational sources. That is even before a value assessment of the
the grantor of funds is undertaken.

As for the conflict of interest, if you consider there is none I
will trust your judgement. I merely point out that any connection
between the grantor and recepient of finances can be interpreted in
unfortunate ways, both by the EU and possibly in NR. If you advocate
for NR and advocate for the EU and NR receives funds, even the EU
may have pause ... or perhaps not (and for the taxpayers of Europe
that in itself should worry them).

I do not believe NR (leaving aside the corporate entity) should be
owned by any macronational group of people, Italian, American, not
even the British <g> (though we do have "recent" experience at
owning large chunks of the world :) ). The corporate entity is based
in the US and I see no reason to alter that, since it is only the
base around which everything else is built. Nor do I believe NR
should be North American in bias nor European. Equilibrium I think
is the latest "buzz" word..no?

I trust that clarifies the issues you raised?

Vale
Gn. Iulius Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Caesar,
>
> > As to the EU example, anything that potentially involves NR

being

> > dependant on a "foreign power" is of concern.
>
> I hope this discussion would be not off-topic...
>

SAlve Caesar,
thank you very much to have clarified, now your opinion is more
clear. But please leave comment your statements...

> When I use the term foreign power I would include any

macronational

> government/entity/corporation on any side of any ocean, as opposed
> to NR. The bottom line is if we seek grants there are usually
> conditions attached, and even if the EU simply deposits large sums
> with no preconditions, I don't think we should become reliant on
> external funding from anyone. What we become should be based on

our

> collective genius to raise those funds independently of
> macronational sources. That is even before a value assessment of

the

> the grantor of funds is undertaken.

I don't understand why you refuse the "external funding" from any
macronational istitution. Funds on special and detailed projects
from the US government or EU don't mean that Nova Roma Inc. would
become property of the macronational funder. One of the duties of
the modern States is support the special projects created by
associations. In Antiqua Roma there were several similar
opportunities given by the central government of by public and
privtae istitutions called FUNDATIO.
Caesar, we're an organization, a cultural and religious association.
If a State or an Istitution give the possibility to receive sum to
create projects, why we shoudln't take this opportunity? The sum
given by the States are not "profit", they're ever linked to
projects involving local communities or improving certain matters,
etc.
For example, Cultura is an EU's program giving a maximum of 50.000
euro for cultural projects. It's a large sum but it must to be used
only for an approved project. Of course Eu (like any States) doesn't
give money without regular documentation showing the seriuosness of
the organization, the economical reliability, the real expanses, the
details about the project, etc.

In my opinion the culture, teh Roman Culture, is a tresury of each
person in the world. It's an heritage of the national communities
and the State should substain any activities for the conservation
and promotion of the own historical patrimony. The State are not
ever able to do it alone, a way should be financing projects
organized by private no-profit organizations.

> As for the conflict of interest, if you consider there is none I
> will trust your judgement. I merely point out that any connection
> between the grantor and recepient of finances can be interpreted

in

> unfortunate ways, both by the EU and possibly in NR.

No, the EU doesn't interpert it as a conflict of interests, please
trust me. About the conflict of interests in NR, I don't see it
because anyone is direclty connected, payed, substained by the EU.
If you would be correct, we shouldn't elect any american citizen
serving in the US Army, or member of a political party, or volunteer
for any job for the US government, etc. This is un-correct and we
rightly don't look for conflicts.
Of course, please, I'm not criticing any people, I'm only saying
that there is conflict of interests between the membership in NR and
the own macronational public job.

> If you advocate
> for NR and advocate for the EU and NR receives funds, even the EU
> may have pause ... or perhaps not

No, trust me.

> (and for the taxpayers of Europe
> that in itself should worry them).

Why, Caesar? I dn't understand you. The focus is not on the
organizer of the project, the focus is about the importance of the
project. If I present a wonderful cultural project, the best
activity we could image, and I'm an EU's parliamentarian, why I
couldn't receive money for the project? Thinkin ever that the sum
must to be used ONLY for the project and its planning.

> I do not believe NR (leaving aside the corporate entity) should be
> owned by any macronational group of people, Italian, American, not
> even the British <g> (though we do have "recent" experience at
> owning large chunks of the world :) ).

Again, why you think that the organization of financing projects
means to be owned by the macronational group?

> The corporate entity is based
> in the US and I see no reason to alter that,

Nobody here would move the base from the USA!
Only we could create a "branch" in Europe too trying to receive
funds for projects, being closer to the public istitutions, the
archeological areas, etc. ... but ever Nova Roma will have the own
headquarter in Maine!

> since it is only the
> base around which everything else is built. Nor do I believe NR
> should be North American in bias nor European. Equilibrium I think
> is the latest "buzz" word..no?

Yes, you're claiming equilibrium but where is your? You say that NR
shouldn' be North-American or european... but NR now is North-
American, and following the equilibroum, Nr should be europeam,
south-american, australian, afrikan, etc. as an organization
protecting the world cultural roman heritage.
So for the equilibrium, your refuse to install a branch in Europe
(for the written good opportunities) is falling down ;-)

> I trust that clarifies the issues you raised?

Yes, you did it and I thank you very much.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

A. Apollónius Cordus L. Júlió Sullae omnibusque sal.

> > If that doesn't work, perhaps we ought to make a
> > formal constitutional amendment saying that one
> curule
> > aedile every year must be Italian; that way we
> don't
> > have to keep pretending that it's a lucky
> > coincidence... ;)
>
> Well, it seems like someone has something to say
> about how Italians
> followed this project?

It seems someone else isn't entering into the
Saturnalian spirit of anarchic humour...





___________________________________________________________
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Salve Caesar.

I realise that we would have to be half-wits if we signed an
agreement for a grant that transferred ownership of NR. That isn't
my concern. I simply believe that a true measure of independence can
only be gained by raising any required funds from our own efforts
and not by way of a grant. Also this modern world functions largely
on people sticking their hands out and receiving large sums of
public monies. A shabby trend in my view.

Credibility wise, in my opinion, we would gain far more by resisting
the temptation to join the line up for what I regard as the cultural
equivalent of the dole (unemployment money). If we all collectively
bend our minds to it we can raise money. We don't need quick fix
grants. That is too easy and too lazy and we do, in my opinion,
sacrifice a considerable chunk of our independence.

Europe (as I know well) has what is termed a strong "social ethic".
Loosely translated this equates to the public purse funding various
social issues. The taxpayers often have little input. I can see the
newspaper headlines now when some enterprising press reporter picks
up on a large cash donative to NR. They would not be favourable in
many EU countries disenchanted with the spendthrift nature of the
EU. No one thinks much of tabloids - but I can see the screetching
headlines in say the British Sun as the latest round of what they
would term waste was "exposed". Our credibility would suffer,
further.

Canada and the USA have a strong tradition of volunteering and
private fund raising. People here (the groups I am involved with
anyway and they are unremarkable in that respect) do not turn first
to government, they turn to members and supporters. It is a
different ethic and in my opinion far moe healthy for a volunteer
organization such as NR.

As to the conflict of interest, as I have said - you say it isn't
and I fully accept that. Tabloid press reporters in the UK for
instance, will not, I assure you.

So in conclusion I feel grants from the EU (or from any one else)
would be highly inadvisable.


Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> SAlve Caesar,
> thank you very much to have clarified, now your opinion is more
> clear. But please leave comment your statements...
>
> > When I use the term foreign power I would include any
> macronational
> > government/entity/corporation on any side of any ocean, as

opposed

> > to NR. The bottom line is if we seek grants there are usually
> > conditions attached, and even if the EU simply deposits large

sums

> > with no preconditions, I don't think we should become reliant on
> > external funding from anyone. What we become should be based on
> our
> > collective genius to raise those funds independently of
> > macronational sources. That is even before a value assessment of
> the
> > the grantor of funds is undertaken.
>
> I don't understand why you refuse the "external funding" from any
> macronational istitution. Funds on special and detailed projects
> from the US government or EU don't mean that Nova Roma Inc. would
> become property of the macronational funder. One of the duties of
> the modern States is support the special projects created by
> associations. In Antiqua Roma there were several similar
> opportunities given by the central government of by public and
> privtae istitutions called FUNDATIO.
> Caesar, we're an organization, a cultural and religious

association.

> If a State or an Istitution give the possibility to receive sum to
> create projects, why we shoudln't take this opportunity? The sum
> given by the States are not "profit", they're ever linked to
> projects involving local communities or improving certain matters,
> etc.
> For example, Cultura is an EU's program giving a maximum of 50.000
> euro for cultural projects. It's a large sum but it must to be

used

> only for an approved project. Of course Eu (like any States)

doesn't

> give money without regular documentation showing the seriuosness

of

> the organization, the economical reliability, the real expanses,

the

> details about the project, etc.
>
> In my opinion the culture, teh Roman Culture, is a tresury of each
> person in the world. It's an heritage of the national communities
> and the State should substain any activities for the conservation
> and promotion of the own historical patrimony. The State are not
> ever able to do it alone, a way should be financing projects
> organized by private no-profit organizations.
>
> > As for the conflict of interest, if you consider there is none I
> > will trust your judgement. I merely point out that any

connection

> > between the grantor and recepient of finances can be interpreted
> in
> > unfortunate ways, both by the EU and possibly in NR.
>
> No, the EU doesn't interpert it as a conflict of interests, please
> trust me. About the conflict of interests in NR, I don't see it
> because anyone is direclty connected, payed, substained by the EU.
> If you would be correct, we shouldn't elect any american citizen
> serving in the US Army, or member of a political party, or

volunteer

> for any job for the US government, etc. This is un-correct and we
> rightly don't look for conflicts.
> Of course, please, I'm not criticing any people, I'm only saying
> that there is conflict of interests between the membership in NR

and

> the own macronational public job.
>
> > If you advocate
> > for NR and advocate for the EU and NR receives funds, even the

EU

> > may have pause ... or perhaps not
>
> No, trust me.
>
> > (and for the taxpayers of Europe
> > that in itself should worry them).
>
> Why, Caesar? I dn't understand you. The focus is not on the
> organizer of the project, the focus is about the importance of the
> project. If I present a wonderful cultural project, the best
> activity we could image, and I'm an EU's parliamentarian, why I
> couldn't receive money for the project? Thinkin ever that the sum
> must to be used ONLY for the project and its planning.
>
> > I do not believe NR (leaving aside the corporate entity) should

be

> > owned by any macronational group of people, Italian, American,

not

> > even the British <g> (though we do have "recent" experience at
> > owning large chunks of the world :) ).
>
> Again, why you think that the organization of financing projects
> means to be owned by the macronational group?
>
> > The corporate entity is based
> > in the US and I see no reason to alter that,
>
> Nobody here would move the base from the USA!
> Only we could create a "branch" in Europe too trying to receive
> funds for projects, being closer to the public istitutions, the
> archeological areas, etc. ... but ever Nova Roma will have the own
> headquarter in Maine!
>
> > since it is only the
> > base around which everything else is built. Nor do I believe NR
> > should be North American in bias nor European. Equilibrium I

think

> > is the latest "buzz" word..no?
>
> Yes, you're claiming equilibrium but where is your? You say that

NR

> shouldn' be North-American or european... but NR now is North-
> American, and following the equilibroum, Nr should be europeam,
> south-american, australian, afrikan, etc. as an organization
> protecting the world cultural roman heritage.
> So for the equilibrium, your refuse to install a branch in Europe
> (for the written good opportunities) is falling down ;-)
>
> > I trust that clarifies the issues you raised?
>
> Yes, you did it and I thank you very much.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar