G. Equitius Cato M. Cornelio Tiberio quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve Marcus Tiberius et salvete omnes.

I've had a couple of informal discussions with computer-wahoos and
it's actually possible to adapt our own website to include these
kinds of features. That's an appealing idea primarily because we
would then no longer be in submission to the whims or restrictions
of Yahoo! and their vast evil machinery but would instead me in
complete control of the format and rules which would apply.

L. Modius Kaelus explained some of this to me, and although I am so
un-computer-wahoo-like that my eyes quickly began to glaze over, it
seemed to make sense. Of course, first we need a webmaster...


Vale et valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cornelius Tiberius"
<mcorneliustiberius@y...> wrote:

>
>
> I have a suggestion for NR to put before Senate if they will
> hear it. Currently, NR uses Yahoo Groups, but I wonder if it
> wouldn't be better,and more efficient to use a ubb forum. Often,
> particuliarly with the ML, it is difficult to keep up with a

discussion

> because of all the other conversations going on there. With a
> forum, each discusion has it's own separate topic. As for the
> different Gens and Sodalitas, each could be given its own forum
> on the main ubb board. For an example, please see
> http://scn.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x This forum has many feratures,
> even on the basic, non-paying membership level. For a long
> time, this forum was able to get by without the administration
> having to pay for the space it took up. Recently, the board
> outgrew this free space due to its own popularity, so the Admin
> came up with a system to help pay for the new space by
> restricting certain features to paying members. If NR can find
> someone, possibly within it's own ranks to host a forum, not
> unlike SCN, it should. Senate could appoint Administrators and
> Moderators on a volunteer basis to maintian the board once it is
> set up.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

Salve Auli Artori Sarmatice,

CONGRATULATIONS!!! I share you pleasure and pride and wish the young
Roman strong health, joyfull babyhood and blessing of all the
Heavenly forces on him.

Best wishes

Alexander I.C. Probus

> Salvete omnes,
>
> it is with great pleasure and pride I'd like to announce that a new
> Roman is born - I've become a father of a boy. He is now 5 weeks
> old:)
> We (mostly I:))) decided to name him Roman - from Romanus, the
> Roman:) Now I am in process of choosing a Roman name for him, I
> believe I only have to choose the praenomen, as other parts of the
> name will be Artorius Arius Romanus:)

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus:

> Since I know not everyone is "fluent" in Roman dates, I figured it
> wouldn't be a bad idea to offer a posting on how dates are given in
> Latin.

What sort of mailing list posting do you call this? You didn't insult
anyone, you didn't spin a conspiracy theory, you didn't threaten to
resign, and worst of all, you actually provided useful content germane
to ancient Rome during the Republic. If everyone else exhibited this
level of disregard for the prevailing mores on this list, rampant
civility might break out, and then where would we be?

Vale,
Claudia Iulia

--
Claudia Iulia <futabachan@...>

A. Probus Macedonicus:

> I would to ask colleagues diribitors . . .
> to send me on my private e-mail: zorik@s... your suggestions
> concerning distribution of tasks and responsibilities according to D3
> point of the Lex cited above.

Sorry for taking this long to respond; I've been busy for the past few
days. I'll follow up by email.

--
Claudia Iulia <futabachan@...>

Salve mi care Auli Artori Sarmatice,

You are full right Roman citizen for a quite long time and please do
not call yourself "half citizen". Of course it will be good if you
get more active in public life of our republic and especially if to
focuse on provincial administration of your province. If I can help
you somehow, I shall do it.
As for the taxes, similar difficulties like you meet also some
citizens from Pannonia province too. Please do not worry about. I
shall arrange it for you.

Bene vale

Alexander I.C. Probus

P.S. Please send me your postal address. I have here a small gift for
your little son.

Salve Claudia Iulia,

> What sort of mailing list posting do you call this? You
> didn't insult anyone, you didn't spin a conspiracy theory,
> you didn't threaten to resign, and worst of all, you actually
> provided useful content germane to ancient Rome during the
> Republic. If everyone else exhibited this level of disregard
> for the prevailing mores on this list, rampant civility might
> break out, and then where would we be?

Sshhhh!!! They might realize that those Roman Virtues are more than words on
a webpage.

Metellus

Salve Claudia Iulia,

That is OK. If you have any suggestions on how the tasks to be
distributed, please send me on my private email: zorik at stonline
dot sk.

Bene vale

Alexander

>
> Sorry for taking this long to respond; I've been busy for the past

few

> days. I'll follow up by email.
>
> --
> Claudia Iulia <futabachan@y...>

Salve Tiberius,
we talked for several times about the possibility to change our
internal communication system. Someone like you suggested forum
(first of all developed in PHP language), someone the new groups by
Google, other chats or mailing list like Majordomo, etc.
I agree with you all. The Yahoo service is not so bad but it's quite
clear that it forces us to use only some limited features. The
situation could be worrying if Yahoo would change the own commercial
politics as indicated a couple of months ago.
It's quite clear too that we would consider the diadvantages moving
to another service. Where the archives would go? how to have
features like the files archive, the database, the agenda, etc.?
And what about the web usability, the easy management, the
accesibility to the forum?
I'm a professional web designer and I developed several web-forum. I
know that each service have teh own particular features.

One of my goals as Consul is reconsider the internal and exetrnal
comunication of NR Inc. I would consider seriously any alternative
solution and your suggestion would be analyzed.
Thank you and please contact me if you have other ideas.

Vale
Fr.Apulus Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cornelius Tiberius"
<mcorneliustiberius@y...> wrote:

>
>
> I have a suggestion for NR to put before Senate if they will
> hear it. Currently, NR uses Yahoo Groups, but I wonder if it
> wouldn't be better,and more efficient to use a ubb forum. Often,
> particuliarly with the ML, it is difficult to keep up with a

discussion

> because of all the other conversations going on there. With a
> forum, each discusion has it's own separate topic. As for the
> different Gens and Sodalitas, each could be given its own forum
> on the main ubb board. For an example, please see
> http://scn.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x This forum has many feratures,
> even on the basic, non-paying membership level. For a long
> time, this forum was able to get by without the administration
> having to pay for the space it took up. Recently, the board
> outgrew this free space due to its own popularity, so the Admin
> came up with a system to help pay for the new space by
> restricting certain features to paying members. If NR can find
> someone, possibly within it's own ranks to host a forum, not
> unlike SCN, it should. Senate could appoint Administrators and
> Moderators on a volunteer basis to maintian the board once it is
> set up.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

Salvete omnes.

As you know, Hispania Provincia is formed by two States: Spain
and Portugal. In order to improve the implantation of Nova Roma
in this last country, the provincial administration is searching
a novarroman citizen both from Spain or Portugal who can manage
day-to-day translations from Castilian-Spanish to Portuguese
language.

If you're interested in helping us with this task, please send
me an email to:

gens_rutilia@...
gens_rutilia AT yahoo DOT es

Thank you in advance.


Valete optime,

P. Rutilius Bardulus Hadrianus
Legatus Externis Rebus
Provincia Hispania




=====
Si vales bene est et gaudeo; ego autem valeo.

P·RVTILIVS·I·F·R·N·CLV·BARDVLVS·HADRIANVS



______________________________________________
Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: ¡250 MB GRATIS!
Nuevos servicios, más seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es

Salve Sarmatice, et salvete quirites,

"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <sarmaticus@...> writes:

> > Visa card you can certainly use PayPal.
>
> I afraid I ceartainly can't. I looks like PAyPal doesn't serve
> Russian users:
> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_registration-run.
> No Russia there...

Well heck. I'm sorry. Perhaps we can work out some process for the Eastern
European provinces to collect taxes together and then transfer them from
somewhere that allows it to the central treasury. The current consuls and
their consular quaestors should look into this.

> I wonder if I can still use it as if I were from EU, e.g.?

We've gotten a lot of tax payments from EU citizens.

> > Of course that would be absurd.
>
> Sure, and this was the only reason I had spend so much time arguing
> about this tax matter in 1999...

We've gone to considerable effort to make the process managable for all of our
citizens. For example, the tax rate is set at 1/3000 of macronational GDP
rather than a flat rate of $12.00 USD. I think we can work with you to find
a way to make this possible without being absurdly difficult.

Vale,

-- Marinus

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

<Cato nudges Metellus> I TOLD you you should've said something
incredibly controversial at the end as a toss-away remark. Now
people are going to start thinking we can be CONSTRUCTIVE, by
Hercules. Sheesh.

Metellus is a doody-head!

There, that should get us back on track. <eg>

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...>
wrote:

>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus:
> > Since I know not everyone is "fluent" in Roman dates, I figured

it

> > wouldn't be a bad idea to offer a posting on how dates are given

in

> > Latin.
>
> What sort of mailing list posting do you call this? You didn't

insult

> anyone, you didn't spin a conspiracy theory, you didn't threaten to
> resign, and worst of all, you actually provided useful content

germane

> to ancient Rome during the Republic. If everyone else exhibited

this

> level of disregard for the prevailing mores on this list, rampant
> civility might break out, and then where would we be?
>
> Vale,
> Claudia Iulia
>
> --
> Claudia Iulia <futabachan@y...>

Senator Alexander Probus;

I sent you a Christmas Card, but it has been returned to me. I sent it
to the address that you had provided to me earlier:

================================
Mr. and Mrs. Alexander Hadjiivandov

Viglasska

851 07 Bratislava

Slovakia
====================

The address is lined out with the following items checked --

"Inconne"

I am sorry that you did not get my greeting.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens


Wishing you all the best, with Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar,

I would like to add my view on this as a regular Yahoo! groups user
and some-time computer Wahoo...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

> we talked for several times about the possibility to change our
> internal communication system. Someone like you suggested forum
> (first of all developed in PHP language), someone the new groups by
> Google, other chats or mailing list like Majordomo, etc.
> I agree with you all. The Yahoo service is not so bad but it's

quite

> clear that it forces us to use only some limited features. The
> situation could be worrying if Yahoo would change the own

commercial

> politics as indicated a couple of months ago.

The Yahoo! groups service is an excellent choice for communication
these days. I have yet to see usage statistics though I see it's use
all over the net- it appears to me it is to email lists what google
is to search engines.

> It's quite clear too that we would consider the diadvantages moving
> to another service. Where the archives would go? how to have
> features like the files archive, the database, the agenda, etc.?
> And what about the web usability, the easy management, the
> accesibility to the forum?

This is the paragraph that makes me respond. I'd like to promote the
idea that we don't need to necessarily move anything as long as one
service, be it on Yahoo! or on a NR hosted site is dedicated as the
primary official forum. The NR mainlist functions as a service-
however, cybernetically it forms a focus of community or a "virtual
city" on the internet landscape. As long as it suits the purposes of
NR and has activity, we might be doing a disservice to uproot it in
any way.

> One of my goals as Consul is reconsider the internal and exetrnal
> comunication of NR Inc. I would consider seriously any alternative
> solution and your suggestion would be analyzed.
> Thank you and please contact me if you have other ideas.

You have a noble task ahead of you. Personally, I'd like to see any
NR domain hosted forums as being part of a larger effort in upgrading
the site as a whole, though I would hope it's current html/java
format remain available.

Best of fortune to your goals of making for more serviceable
communications.

Vale

L.Fidelius Graecus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "a_cato2002" <catoni52@s...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve Lucia:
> I apologise for the problem you have been having, but
> as you can see your name was never sent to me as a propsective

member

> of the gens because, as Julilla Sempronia Magna has pointed out, you
> were listed as "socius". I am not sure what happened with your e-

mail to me. I never received it.

> On top of that, I had closed the gens to new members. But as you
> had wished to join before I closed it, I have temporarily re-opened

it for you to join, in your case only, because of the problem.

> Allow me to welcome you to gens Tullia. There is not a lot

going on I am afraid, and I have a very busy life, but perhaps
things will change.

>
> Bene vale, Appius Tullius Cato
> Senator
> Paterfamilias, Gens Tullia

My thanks for recifying my status. I too have a very busy life but
it is my hope that I will be able to contribute the gens and to Nova
Roma at large.

Bene vale
Lucia Tullia (at last!) Vatia

Ave,

I thought I should reply as well and maybe help to explain a little
bit better.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L.F. Graecus"
<nexus909@h...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve Fr. Apulus Caesar,
>
> I would like to add my view on this as a regular Yahoo! groups

user

> and some-time computer Wahoo...
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC"

<sacro_barese_impero@l...>

> wrote:

<*snipped*>

>
> The Yahoo! groups service is an excellent choice for

communication

> these days. I have yet to see usage statistics though I see it's

use

> all over the net- it appears to me it is to email lists what google
> is to search engines.

I for one am un-impresed with Yahoo. Their rules are very
restrictive, and they themselves seem to have trouble living up to
their end of the fine print. I have also known them to close
groups with little or no warning, seemingly on a whim. As for
excellent, well, I again am unimpressed with its capablities. As I
explained in my first message, it is very hard to follow along in
conversations because of how the groups are set up.

> > It's quite clear too that we would consider the diadvantages

moving

> > to another service. Where the archives would go? how to

have

> > features like the files archive, the database, the agenda, etc.?
> > And what about the web usability, the easy management, the
> > accesibility to the forum?

The archives would have to essentially be copy-pasted into a
new archive at the forum. It would be tetius and time consuming,
but it could be done. As for files archive, they can be set up
using the forums attachment feature, and if you organized it all
ahead of time (ie, the files go into a particuliar thread within each
forum), it wouldn't even be that hard. Same goes for the
database. As for the agenda, an announcement forum can be
set up to searve such a purpose. Again, I highly recommend you
look to SCN as an example. Accesiblity is soething that will have
to be decided on when the board is being set up. I would
recommend that posting be restricted to members only, but that
visators be allowed to read what has already been posted.
Forums you wouldn't want to be seen by non-citizens can be
restricted to a userlist of pre-existing members (so maybe you
could have a forum or forums dedicated to magistrates and able
to be accessed by only those individuals), or you could even
have them made to be invisible to those not onthe forum's
userlist.

> This is the paragraph that makes me respond. I'd like to

promote the

> idea that we don't need to necessarily move anything as long

as one

> service, be it on Yahoo! or on a NR hosted site is dedicated as

the

> primary official forum. The NR mainlist functions as a service-
> however, cybernetically it forms a focus of community or a

"virtual

> city" on the internet landscape. As long as it suits the purposes

of

> NR and has activity, we might be doing a disservice to uproot it

in

> any way.

A large board of forums could also serve as an excellent "virtual
city" Forums always have a sense of community no matter what
their theme or purpose. Nova Roma actually has something of
an advantage in that we already have the community spirit, the
new forum would simply make it stronger. As such a forum
could be set up within the actual main website Nova Roma
already has, it would also make it easier in that everything _is_
in one place. Who knows, maybe having it set up so visitors can
browse through but not post may generate more interest and
earn us some more new citizens?

> > One of my goals as Consul is reconsider the internal and

exetrnal

> > comunication of NR Inc. I would consider seriously any

alternative

> > solution and your suggestion would be analyzed.
> > Thank you and please contact me if you have other ideas.
>
> You have a noble task ahead of you. Personally, I'd like to see

any

> NR domain hosted forums as being part of a larger effort in

upgrading

> the site as a whole, though I would hope it's current html/java
> format remain available.
>
> Best of fortune to your goals of making for more serviceable
> communications.
>
> Vale
>
> L.Fidelius Graecus

I'd also like to see this done as an upgrade to the main website.
Thanks for hearing me. :)

Vale,

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

I have just returned to read the dreadful news. It is always a sad
day when anyone resigns their citizenship, but when such a talented,
dedicated and active civis resigns -- well, the Gods Themselves must
weep.

Sadly,
--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix G. Equito Cato et Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete.



gaiusequitiuscato wrote:

>G. Equitius Cato M. Cornelio Tiberio quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
>Salve Marcus Tiberius et salvete omnes.
>
>I've had a couple of informal discussions with computer-wahoos and
>it's actually possible to adapt our own website to include these
>kinds of features. That's an appealing idea primarily because we
>would then no longer be in submission to the whims or restrictions
>of Yahoo! and their vast evil machinery but would instead me in
>complete control of the format and rules which would apply.
>
>

I thoroughly agree. I'm not sure if anyone has this problem but I've
noticed up to 6 hour delays in my messages getting posted through the
various yahoo groups I subscribe to. Yahoo was a good (and obviously
economical) solution for Nova Roma in its early stages, but something
more (and more reliable is needed now).
I am an advocate of switching to forums from mailing lists. It is far
easier to follow the various conversations (and keep them seperate) and
has the advantage of allowing people to only read the threads they are
interested in which should appeal to those citizens who wish to avoid
some of the more unpleasant and tedious postings. Mailing lists, such as
the Nova Roma Announce list could be kept for official buisness.

I recently purchased some new webpage editing software (WebEditor 6
Suite) that has a forum building tool included with it. Once I get it
installed and tinker with it a bit, I'll see how well it works and get
back to everyone.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix

>L. Modius Kaelus explained some of this to me, and although I am so
>un-computer-wahoo-like that my eyes quickly began to glaze over, it
>seemed to make sense. Of course, first we need a webmaster...
>
>
>Vale et valete,
>
>Cato
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cornelius Tiberius"
><mcorneliustiberius@y...> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a suggestion for NR to put before Senate if they will
>>hear it. Currently, NR uses Yahoo Groups, but I wonder if it
>>wouldn't be better,and more efficient to use a ubb forum. Often,
>>particuliarly with the ML, it is difficult to keep up with a
>>
>>
>discussion
>
>
>>because of all the other conversations going on there. With a
>>forum, each discusion has it's own separate topic. As for the
>>different Gens and Sodalitas, each could be given its own forum
>>on the main ubb board. For an example, please see
>>http://scn.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x This forum has many feratures,
>>even on the basic, non-paying membership level. For a long
>>time, this forum was able to get by without the administration
>>having to pay for the space it took up. Recently, the board
>>outgrew this free space due to its own popularity, so the Admin
>>came up with a system to help pay for the new space by
>>restricting certain features to paying members. If NR can find
>>someone, possibly within it's own ranks to host a forum, not
>>unlike SCN, it should. Senate could appoint Administrators and
>>Moderators on a volunteer basis to maintian the board once it is
>>set up.
>>
>>Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cornelius Tiberius"
<mcorneliustiberius@y...> wrote:

>
> Ave,
>
> I thought I should reply as well and maybe help to explain a

little

> bit better.
>

> I for one am un-impresed with Yahoo. Their rules are very
> restrictive, and they themselves seem to have trouble living up to
> their end of the fine print. I have also known them to close
> groups with little or no warning, seemingly on a whim. As for
> excellent, well, I again am unimpressed with its capablities. As

I

> explained in my first message, it is very hard to follow along in
> conversations because of how the groups are set up.

True- but let us not forget, groups are email lists rather than
actual groups, the "group" is a web interface for list
usage/management. The problems of groups are the native problems of
an email list. A hosted web forum is superior in many ways- though
you are required to visit a web site and often, to supply login
credentials. With lists, you just use your email account. As with
nearly everything, there is a trade-off. ... Per closing groups,
they have been reasonably fair though you are correct- there is no
real guarantee unless you are paying for service, which Yahoo!
decided not to do with groups.

> > > It's quite clear too that we would consider the diadvantages
> moving
> > > to another service. Where the archives would go? how to
> have
> > > features like the files archive, the database, the agenda,

etc.?

> > > And what about the web usability, the easy management, the
> > > accesibility to the forum?
>
> The archives would have to essentially be copy-pasted into a
> new archive at the forum. It would be tetius and time consuming,
> but it could be done.

I've noticed that publicly accessable message archives are open to
search engines though this can't be relied on. Surely someone has a
copy of all or most messages in individual or digest form. If none
of the moderators do, I'm wagging my finger at you guys right
now. ;-) Still, there are automated programs for such a task.

>
> A large board of forums could also serve as an excellent "virtual
> city" Forums always have a sense of community no matter what
> their theme or purpose. Nova Roma actually has something of
> an advantage in that we already have the community spirit, the
> new forum would simply make it stronger. As such a forum
> could be set up within the actual main website Nova Roma
> already has, it would also make it easier in that everything _is_
> in one place. Who knows, maybe having it set up so visitors can
> browse through but not post may generate more interest and
> earn us some more new citizens?

I fully agree, and I think it would serve as a better one. You might
want to take a look at what SVR has going (only endorsing
a working example of Roman forums, not content). ... That's not to
say 'NR @ Yahoo! groups' should be shelved IMHO, I think most would
still use it because so many of us are subscribed to non-NR groups
as well. Besides, territory is virtual- why not stake a free claim
in Yahoo! space as long as the terms are good?

> Thanks for hearing me. :)

It's very good to hash this out as opinion among civis, it may make
a difference to an 'appropriate person' who wants to see as many
sides of this thing as possible.

Vale,

-- L. Fidelius Graecus

Salvete,

As Pontifex Maximus I announce the Moveable Feriae for MMDCCLVIII A.V.C.

The Compitalia, the Celebration of the Lares Compitales, will be tomorrow -
Wednesday, January 5th.

The Sementivae will be as follows:

The Festival of Tellus will be on Monday, January 24th.
The Festival of Ceres will be on Wednesday February 2nd.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
Nova Roma



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

As circumstances have dictated an extremely short announcement period for
the Compitalia this year, I would like to post some quick information for those
interested in celebrating this moveable Feria.

The Compitalia is a feast of the Lares. It was traditional to hang wooden
dolls in the trees on the edge of family property - one doll for each member of
the household, and a wooden ball for each slave in the household. It is
thought that the dolls, as representatives of the household, might receive the
"numen" of the Lares in this way.

For those unable to do such a symbolic act this year, it would certainly be
appropriate to honor the Lares at the home lararium with offerings of food,
wine and incense.

The Compitalia is also a time of feasting, so a special celebratory meal,
shared with the Lares at the Lararium would also be welcome. :)

As the Compitalia followed the Saturnalia, it was something of the
equivalent of the modern "New Year's" celebrations of today. This makes it an
excellent time to honor the Lares as the protectors of the home for the coming year.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Modius Athanasius Marco Cassio Iuliano salutem dicit

It is very good to see this announcement!

I have great hopes for 2005, and look forward to working with you within the
Collegium.

Vale;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/4/2005 9:00:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cassius622@... writes:

Salvete,

As Pontifex Maximus I announce the Moveable Feriae for MMDCCLVIII A.V.C.

The Compitalia, the Celebration of the Lares Compitales, will be tomorrow -
Wednesday, January 5th.

The Sementivae will be as follows:

The Festival of Tellus will be on Monday, January 24th.
The Festival of Ceres will be on Wednesday February 2nd.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
Nova Roma





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVE OPTIME CASSI JVLIANE

> The Sementivae will be as follows:
>
> The Festival of Tellus will be on Monday, January 24th.
> The Festival of Ceres will be on Wednesday February 2nd.

Isn't February 2nd a Dies Religiosus according to the Roman calendar?
How can we make offerings/sacrifices on that day? :-(

Thank you

OPTIME VALE
Serapio

> I am an advocate of switching to forums from mailing lists. It is
> far easier to follow the various conversations (and keep them
> seperate) and has the advantage of allowing people to only read the
> threads they are interested in which should appeal to those
> citizens who wish to avoid some of the more unpleasant and tedious
> postings.

Salvete,

I can definitely understand the appeal of avoiding unpleasant postings
but I wonder if the public good would be served by pushing them into
separate forums. In order to serve as a Forum (in the Roman sense) I
think the Main List needs to be a place where voices are heard even if
they are sometimes too loud or abrasive. To remain vibrant the Main
List needs to have a good volume of discourse that keeps people
involved and reading.

I would strongly endorse migrating off of Yahoo if the discussions
could be moved to a more open protocol that would allow citizens to
choose a client with the features that they would prefer. For
example, a Usenet (NNTP) model might be a good system since there are
a variety of free readers available and users can choose how they want
to browse articles, e.g. in chronological order like Yahoo or by
thread. Some readers (I use Gnus) also allow for scoring posts so
that a post by someone that I enjoy reading or a subject that I find
interesting is moved to the top of the list.

Just my two sestertii...

Valete,

Numerius Gladius Bibulus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

>
> Absolutely:)! Diana, and I also extend the olive branch to Gnaeus
> Iulius Caesar, Vestinia Caprenia, Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus,
> Decius Iunius Silanus, Decius Iunius Palladius Invictor, et omnes
> Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP

I too accept your olive branch.

Vale,

Palladius Invictus

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is Nonis Ianuariis; the day is Fastus.

On this day, the Rex Sacrorum would announce the schedule of the
month's religious festivals from the Arx Victoria at the Shrine of
Vica Pota. The Shrine of Vica Pota was built over the site of the
Domus P. Valerii, on the crest of the Velia facing the Forum:

"It was rumoured that he [P. Valerius] was aiming at monarchy, for
he had held no election to fill Brutus' place, and he was building a
house on the top of the Velia, an impregnable fortress was being
constructed on that high and strong position. The consul felt hurt
at finding these rumours so widely believed, and summoned the people
to an assembly. As he entered, the 'fasces' were lowered, to the
great delight of the multitude, who understood that it was to them
that they were lowered as an open avowal that the dignity and might
of the people were greater than those of the consul ... 'Will you,'
he cried, 'never deem any man's merit so assured that it cannot be
tainted by suspicion? Am I, the most determined foe to kings to
dread the suspicion of desiring to be one myself? Even if I were
dwelling in the Citadel on the Capitol, am I to believe it possible
that I should be feared by my fellow-citizens? Does my reputation
amongst you hang on so slight a thread? Does your confidence rest
upon such a weak foundation that it is of greater moment where I am
than who I am? The house of Publius Valerius shall be no check upon
your freedom, your Velia shall be safe. I will not only move my
house to level ground, but I will move it to the bottom of the hill
that you may dwell above the citizen whom you suspect. Let those
dwell on the Velia who are regarded as truer friends of liberty than
Publius Valerius.' All the materials were forthwith carried below
the Velia and his house was built at the very bottom of the hill
where now stands the temple of Vica Pota." (Livy, Hist. of Rome
2.7)

The deity Vica Pota was apparently either identical to or another
form of Victoria, for the shrine was also called "aedes Victoriae".
The Aedes Victoria proper was a shrine built on the Palatine Hill by
the consul L. Postumius Megellus (294 B.C.) with money raised from
fines:

"and previous to his departure he dedicated the temple to Victory
which he had, when curule aedile, built out of the proceeds of
fines." (op. cit. 10.33)



Valete bene,

Cato

> > The Sementivae will be as follows:
> >
> > The Festival of Tellus will be on Monday, January 24th.
> > The Festival of Ceres will be on Wednesday February 2nd.
>
> Isn't February 2nd a Dies Religiosus according to the Roman calendar?
> How can we make offerings/sacrifices on that day? :-(

Actually, as the Collegium has not yet set the Calendar for the year, it can
be any day you want it to be, though my calendar has it as a Dies Ater.

Vale,

Quintus Caecilius

Salvete


I uploaded, to the "files" section of this email group, two
archives; one called Arqlex.doc and another called Lexlist.doc, both
in MS Word.
The Arqlex.doc lists all the leges approved in Nova Roma, included
the superceded ones (that are excluded from the Tabularium), in a
single archive, with 106 laws and 153 pages.
The Listlex.doc is a statistics table, with comitia, date of
approval etc.
Hope anyone of our new magistrates find some utility in it; if not,
is there anyway. :)


Vale
M.Arminius

Salve LF Graecus -

On Jan 4, 2005, at 8:09 PM, L.F. Graecus wrote:
> Salve,
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cornelius Tiberius"
> <mcorneliustiberius@y...> wrote:
>> Ave,
>> I thought I should reply as well and maybe help to explain a little
>> bit better.
>> I for one am un-impresed with Yahoo.

I'm unimpressed with the quality of their service, but the simplicity
and the price are both plusses.

>> Their rules are very restrictive, and they themselves seem to have
>> trouble living up to their end of the fine print. I have also known
>> them to close groups with little or no warning, seemingly on a whim.

Not on a whim, really - they do so upon receipt of a complaint, and do
so summarily rather than "investigate", in order to stave off being
dragged into a potential legal matter. Most e-mail list and bulletin
board services do the same thing. They simply refuse to pay for extra
staff to do a real investigation as to whether the complaint has any
merit or not - it's so much easier and cheaper to just pull the plug.

>> As for excellent, well, I again am unimpressed with its capablities.
>> As I explained in my first message, it is very hard to follow along
>> in conversations because of how the groups are set up.
>
There are many mail handler programs that will organize mail any way
you want: By person, subject/thread, date received and so on. If
that's the main complaint, it is one that is easy enough to fix with a
simple download.

> True- but let us not forget, groups are email lists rather than actual
> groups, the "group" is a web interface for list
> usage/management. The problems of groups are the native problems of an
> email list. A hosted web forum is superior in many ways- though you
> are required to visit a web site and often, to supply login
> credentials.

I can't speak for others, but I for one long ago began simplifying my
life by refusing to sign up for anything requiring yet another login
passcode - I got tired of keeping track of them all, simply put. If it
doesn't have a "remember password" option, I don't use it anymore.
It's as simple as that. Have to log in for each session? No thanks,
with vehemence. I stopped even *looking* at anything in WebRing for
just that reason. Checking something out should not require a Login
each time or a membership in advance.

Somewhere or other I have a three ring binder full of passcodes and
logins - and I don't use *any* of them any more.
Honestly, what on Earth makes Web-wallahs think *anyone* wants to
memorize yet another Login/Username or keep track of another piece of
paper with a password on it? Life is cluttered enough as it is.

> With lists, you just use your email account. As with nearly
> everything, there is a trade-off. ... Per closing groups, they have
> been reasonably fair though you are correct- there is no real
> guarantee unless you are paying for service, which Yahoo! decided not
> to do with groups.
>
>>>> It's quite clear too that we would consider the diadvantages moving
>>>> to another service. Where the archives would go? how to have
>>>> features like the files archive, the database, the agenda, etc.?
>>>> And what about the web usability, the easy management, the
>>>> accesibility to the forum?
>>
The ease of management is the primary concern: We have a different
elected amateur each year. Often gifted, very bright individuals, but
they're volunteers - it mustn't be any more difficult than necessary,
or no one will volunteer for the job.

>> The archives would have to essentially be copy-pasted into a new
>> archive at the forum. It would be tetius and time consuming, but it
>> could be done.
>
Yes, it could be done, but again remember it has to be done by a
volunteer Magistrate - and this year we had no takers for the job that
were of age. This isn't like most groups, where there is a permanent
Webmaster: Here it's an elected position, so it better be intuitive -
we can't have to train a new person every year.

> I've noticed that publicly accessable message archives are open to
> search engines though this can't be relied on. Surely someone has a
> copy of all or most messages in individual or digest form. If none of
> the moderators do, I'm wagging my finger at you guys right now. ;-)
> Still, there are automated programs for such a task.
>>
>> A large board of forums could also serve as an excellent "virtual
>> city" Forums always have a sense of community no matter what their
>> theme or purpose. Nova Roma actually has something of an advantage
>> in that we already have the community spirit, the new forum would
>> simply make it stronger. As such a forum could be set up within the
>> actual main website Nova Roma already has, it would also make it
>> easier in that everything _is_
>> in one place. Who knows, maybe having it set up so visitors can
>> browse through but not post may generate more interest and earn us
>> some more new citizens?
>
Very few people Post while still just a "Visitor", so I'm not following
your reasoning here. It would only make things a bit more frustrating
for those few who do, and therefore might actually cost us a few
potential Citizens. As it is, our "Welcome" mat is always out - all
are free to come, to read, to join in on the spur of the moment if they
wish. You would be retracting that "Welcome", and make them jump
through hoops and wait on the Censors response before they could even
*test* interacting with any of our people. I'm against this notion - I
like our perpetual "Welcome" policy.

> I fully agree, and I think it would serve as a better one. You might
> want to take a look at what SVR has going (only endorsing a working
> example of Roman forums, not content). ...

Been there, got frustrated, then left. Been there three different
times in the past year, in fact, since occassionally people speak well
of it - and absolutely hated the setup. Browsing? Difficult. Many
things restricted. You need a roadmap and an instruction book and
frankly that's too much work just to check out what appears to be a
social group & see if it might be worthwhile. I'd be very surprised if
anyone just casually goes there to check them out.

In fact, last time I looked at them they appear to have changed format,
since the first time I checked them out last year - and that change was
even worse. I don't know if it's a problem with that kind of system in
general or if they just have a bad Webmaster who set it up poorly, but
it definitely makes me leery of the entire format: Whenever I see
something similar, I just exit. Immediately. I don't even bother
trying to navigate it, since they all are slightly different. Just not
worth the hassle. If something has restricted or blocked access, I
want to know *before* I try selecting it so I won't be wasting my time.
Likewise, why on Earth would I join something that I haven't even been
able to check out?

Another point: Some of these places have great graphics but take
forever to load by dialup. Of course, most Web-wallahs have high speed
internet service and design their sites with this in mind. Well, most
of the world uses dialup - cutesy graphics just aren't worth the extra
time. Really, they aren't. We go to a site for *content*, not to be
amazed at pretty borders and clever backgrounds while various *things*
flash on and off.

> That's not to say 'NR @ Yahoo! groups' should be shelved IMHO, I think
> most would still use it because so many of us are subscribed to non-NR
> groups as well. Besides, territory is virtual- why not stake a free
> claim in Yahoo! space as long as the terms are good?
>
As long as the space remains free, I'd wager most of the Sodalitates
will stay right where they are: Most are "owned" by various Citizens,
not by the Senate, and would have no reason to change.

>> Thanks for hearing me. :)
>
Likewise. ;-)

> It's very good to hash this out as opinion among civis, it may make a
> difference to an 'appropriate person' who wants to see as many sides
> of this thing as possible.
>
It's been hashed out before, and no doubt will be again. There's
always someone who says "But these other types look so COOL!!! We
should have one of these!"

I'm not persuaded.
Not even close - *especially* by any referral to SVR's site as an
example.

Vale
- S E M Troianus

> Vale,
>
> -- L. Fidelius Graecus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salvete omnes -

On Jan 4, 2005, at 2:19 AM, aoctaviaindagatrix wrote:
> Salvete omnes, esp Vestinia Caprinia,
>
> While the idea of Christianity induced modesty is probably true for
> most of the populace in a general setting, the idea of privacy in the
> field..most particulary under the conditions of the last 2 years of
> the war when so much previously available infrastructure was denied or
> destroyed..gets a little hazy.

The attitudes remained, however, and were practiced as much as
possible: Modesty can be preserved by the simple hanging of an old
sheet off a line, and often was maintained in a similarly jerry-rigged
manner. We're talking about people who bathed in their long johns,
after all (while wealthy civilians wore bath robes in the bath).

Nor was such modesty a Christian thing: The Romans were rather famous
for it. Young males may have run around naked at the gymnasium, and
everyone got naked for the baths, but otherwise the Romans were big on
covering their "shameful parts" as Cicero put it. They thought the
Egyptians were decadent and shameless for their public nakedness, and
were quite apalled by Barbarians who rushed into battle wearing nothing
but body paint. Even the poorest Roman fieldworker would don
sackcloth, if that's all he can afford, rather than toil naked like
some "primitive".

Modesty was considered a Virtue, remember - though one with more (and
different) connotations than Christianity attaches to the word.
Ultimately, the "shame" wasn't because nakedness was a vice - it
wasn't, really - but because Roman culture was a very class conscious
society where appearrances were very important: Even the poorest
freedman was determined to show he was "better" than the "barbarians"
and "savages" from "lesser" cultures. A matter of pride, no matter how
humble the Roman.

> There were problems left for existing populace in areas where even
> short duration camps were set up such as open trenches for toilet
> usage left wide open, polluted well and ground water (which led to
> outbreaks of disease in N.C. and S.C. particularly) and general filth
> in areas inhabited. I'm sure some sort of modesty was attempted, but
> open trenches for toilets aren't very conducive to such. And the
> ability to claim needing more than a pee meant
> squatting in a field wasn't suspicious.

Well, there are ways around this: Wait until a time no one else is
using the "facilities". Squat anyway and let people assume it's for a
"male" reason. Use the handy button flap underwear to conceal the
reality. Volunteer to forage for supplies or firewood - and then do
your business away from camp. Put on airs of "respectability" and
insist on "accomodations" - like an improvised outhouse or the like.
Use a chamberpot in your own small tent. Lots of ways. That is, of
course, how a few women got away with it in the A.C.W..

These things would likely have been harder in a Roman outfit, where
only the highmost had any kind of privacy at all.
Nearly impossible, since the wealthy had servants intruding on their
privacy.

> Open stream bathing, when it was available at all, was the norm for
> the fielded CW soldier and represented their laundry facilities as
> well, when laundry was even thought of under those conditions.
>
Yes, but again we're talking about people who often bathed while
wearing some form of clothing, if they bathed at all. Except for kids
at the swimming hole, it was an era where any nakedness was deemed
"indecent". Again, far different from Roman culture where stripping
down to bathe or swim was the norm - nakedness wasn't a "vice", it was
a "shame", a sign of poverty or barbarity which doesn't apply to
bathing (quite the opposite: Bathing was a mark of Civilization).

> The majority of troops didn't have the moving city parts that we
> associate with romans. Tent, pot, weaponry and precious little else.
> They certainly weren't constructing forts every night. Forts with
> specific tent mates and a regular construction means that it would be
> simpler to establish a routine that would work for anyone hiding
> behavior. Haphazard camps within woodlands with a different set up
> every night eliminated predictability of surroundings.

Now, you are only speaking here of the behaviour of irregular units in
the A.C.W.: The regular armies of both sides were commanded by
professional West Point graduates who taught, drilled and trained them
to military discipline - including properly distant latrines and camps
in orderly rows. These are not rabbles, they were Armies and were
given as much training as possible. Camp discipline was especially
important, as the effects of poor sanitation and disease were well
known and determinedly prevented - disease was the highest source of
casualties, and of great concern.

> The lack of food to repress menstruation was known and most likely
> made things a lot easier. Too much activity was also thought to cause
> it and was noted in Victorian times as well so most likely this
> information has been around for a good bit longer. Obviously how it
> was done was always a question to survivors when their stories began
> to be told and basically, they found a way. Either they were stinky
> until the time was right or they snuck away
> at night to wash when the opportunity arose. Given that fielded
> soldiers in RA didn't construct a proper bath
> every night, but did in longer camps and certainly when wintering they
> bathed, getting away with it might be harder than in the CW.

Much harder, I'd expect.

> As you mentioned, there is the American Revolution and there is
> considerable debate as to how many women have, unknown to anyone, died
> in the field during both of these wars as burial wasn't always
> possible. Disrobing dead soldiers wasn't often done except in the case
> where the clothing was usable and needed by a particular
> soldier; with the exception of boots. They were simply left there or
> buried in groups depending on the situation.

Even if outer garb was salvaged, the dead would be left their dignity -
and their undergarments. Keep in mind that the ridiculous modesty of
the times would have prevented reporting of the female body: You'd be
admitting you were stripping the body more than was considered
"decent", and worse you'd be admitting to stripping a woman with whom
you had no proper relationship and possibly even be accused of "taking
liberties"! Victorian America was frequently ludicrous. People would
look down on such a person - even for just "handling" a female body.
They'd almost certainly keep it to themselves - and probably be ashamed
of it.
>
> While difficult at any time in history, and perhaps more so in some
> times, I again state that I don't think it can categorically be ruled
> out for a civilization as long as RA's as a for-sure-never-happened
> thing.

Especially considering the number of "foreign" people holding Roman
Citizenship but retaining "barbarian" values and serving in the
Auxilliaries. The number of actual Romans serving in the Roman Army
kept dropping as time went on, until in Christian times whole units
were "barbarian" - and may not have cared one whit about a woman
serving.
Would a Roman chronicler even look closely at such a unit, or just
blame the sense of decline on the "foreigners" in general?

> Not that these two are such, only that it can't be ruled out. It
> happened in Russia, America (in at least 2 wars until
> physicals became compulsory), Germany and probably many other
> countries of long standing at some point. Some people's nature simply
> demands it. Conidering that there have been at least 5 births on board
> Navy ships where no one..except the mother..knew of the pregnancy on a
> ship at very close quarters certainly does bring home that people
> really are amazing at hiding things.

Don't forget the uniforms! The 17 & 18oo's used so much cloth you
could have concealed a second person in there, almost. Modern uniforms
are skimpy by comparison, as were Roman uniforms (which weren't
especially uniform). So much easier to conceal body parts under the
multiple layers of a Redcoat than a simple tunic.

> And I'd almost swear some of the women on my ship were men just trying
> to live in the female officer's quarters. And the amount of
> sex..secret marriages. Well, secrets are everywhere.).

Which is again why the prudish centuries offered better chances for
concealment: Not only because of the modesty and layers of cloth, but
also because sex was supposed to be completely hidden (and some types
"unspeakable"); now, as in Roman times, sex of all types is an
acknowledged fact (and equally futile attempts made to regulate it)
while the uniforms offer less concealment.

With sex and occassional "exposure" just considered natural and a part
of living in a community, someone in Roman times would have been
thought very odd for never changing in the presence of others, never
using a public toilet, never using the public baths or brothels, and
remaining fully garbed at all times.

Valete
- S E M Troianus
>
> Valete,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Vestinia, called Vesta"
> <optia_vesta@y...> wrote:
>> --- aoctaviaindagatrix <christyacb@y...> wrote:
>> Salve A. Octavia Indagatrix
>>
>>> By way of example, I'd like to put forth the American Civil War.
>>
>> The only difference here is that Christianity had formented the
> idea
>> of personal modesty.
>>
>> I've read a great deal about women in Andersonville and women like
>> Deborah Sampson (American Revolutionary War). The primary
> assistance
>> they had concealing their identities as women was:
>> 1) Lack of food eliminated menstruation
>> 2) Social habits of physical modesty gave them the opportunity to
>> eliminate and bathe (when possible) alone
>>
>> While these days we can see 1) in our high-end athletes (gymnasts,
>> etc), 2) is something we don't see at all. We let each other know
>> that we are male or female -- we seek identifiers which are more
> than
>> clothing based. In many ways, we've re-merged the ideas of
> biological
>> sex and sociological gender; these were separated in many ways and
>> codified, not only by behaviour, but also by trappings.
>>
>> George Eliot was really Mary Anne Evans. But she chose a male role
>> and dressed and conducted herself for it.
>>
>> Other examples are Billy Tipton (born Dorothy Tipton), the jazz
>> musician, and Murray Hall (born Mary Anderson). They conformed to
> the
>> sociological construction of gender (Murray Hall's "mannerisms were
>> so masculine that no one ever questioned" his sex).
>>
>> Romans, with the public baths and the close quarters and a social
>> tradition which did not encourage physical modesty, would defy a
>> woman's attempt to construct a male public persona.
>>
>> While the idea of a cross-dressing female warrior may seem possible
>> at the outset, I believe that the cultural differences which make
>> such women possible in a Christian society preclude their existence
>> in Roman times.
>>
>> Vestinia Caprenia
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
>> http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Alright, who pissed him off? fess up. No one gives up
just like that unless they are PISSED- especially not
a Roman of his caliber, no way!
--- sacro_barese_impero@...
<sacro_barese_impero@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Saturnine, Amice,
>
> I hope you'll read this message when you'll come

back... because I

> pray you to reconsider your resignation from NR. I'm

quite very

> surprised and displeased, this news is very sad for

our Res Publica.

> My dearest friend, you're one of the best man in

Nova ROma, I can't

> see the future of this organization without you. I

worked with you

> for many time and you know how I'm happy to have

done it.

> Please, think about, we need you.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Consul
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Curius

Saturninus

> <c.curius@w...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Time has become to face the facts. NR is a only a

cause of

> unhappiness
> > for me and there is no point of losing ones peace

of mind for the

> sake
> > of role-playing game. I entered with little hopes

and with little

> hopes
> > I will leave you all, I think NR will fail. Not

counting some very

> > special friends there is no honour in NR and it

has become clear

> that I
> > have no means to change that.
> >
> > I am very sorry for my friends to cause this

trouble and I will

> > understand very well if you will not forgive me as

I have failed

> to be
> > worthy of your trust and I don't deserve any

forgiveness. I hope

> you
> > all have better life without me troubling with

you.

> >
> > I will unsubscribe from all the mailing lists so

there is no point

> of
> > making any public non-sense about this. I resign

from all my posts

> and
> > my citizenship.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> >
> > Caius Curius Saturninus
> >
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Legatus Regionis Finnicae
> > Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana

Antiqua et Nova

> >
> > e-mail: c.curius@a...
> > www.academiathules.org
> > gsm: +358-50-3315279
> > fax: +358-9-8754751
>
>
>

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> I'm not persuaded.
> Not even close - *especially* by any referral to SVR's site as an
> example.

Okay, I admit it wasn't a great example. I maybe should have just
stopped at 'PhP bulletin board system' which are all very
configurable. A better example of use is
http://www.fulldisklosure.org - seems safer to recommend conspiracy
theories and apocalyptic prophecies than that S place. ;)

Vale bene

- LFG

Salve LF Graecus -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:51 AM, L.F. Graecus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>> I'm not persuaded. Not even close - *especially* by any referral to
>> SVR's site as an example.
>
> Okay, I admit it wasn't a great example. I maybe should have just
> stopped at 'PhP bulletin board system' which are all very
> configurable. A better example of use is
> http://www.fulldisklosure.org

Yes, those are nice setups. Very easy to navigate and everything right
there on the Menu Bar, with the latest topics prominently in the
middle. I do a lot of BBS browsing, and the PhP's are good.
One thing solidly in its favour would be the ability to list all
Sodalitates and side Lists - actually there are probably too many, but
a front page menu could list categories like "Regional Announcement
Lists", "Interest Groups" and so on, which in turn take you to a
complete list for that category - link, link & there you are. Most
people don't even know of all the smaller Lists available. I keep
having to advise new Citizens to do a Google search and ignore the Nova
Roma hotel chain, just to see what's available.

One drawback would be the loading speed. In all honesty, my mail
handler is faster than my web browser & I have all mail forwarded from
the Lists to my computer - much, much faster than waiting for each
linked-to page to load from a bulletin board.
Another advantage of doing it that way is the ability to work on
e-mails offline - important in a house with a shared phone line: Just
"Get Mail", then disconnect. Others can use the phone line while I
read and answer all NR stuff "offline". My responses queue up in my
"Out" box until I re-connect, then they auto-send. Very efficient.
With a bulletin board I can't respond disconnected, nor can I read
anything beyond the currently loaded page. That's a drawback.
Still, a BBS system has many advantages, I'll agree. It also may be
*necessary* as NR continues to grow, because of sheer volume. If it
ever reaches the point of thousands of postings on a single day, it
will become impossible to read everything, yet alone find anything in
particular. By averaging over a hundred messages a day it's already
stretching *my* limitations, though my computer has no problems with it
- yet. (Knock on wood veneer.) It may get to the point of *having* to
pick & choose between threads, at some point.
That kind of growth would actually be nice!
For now, though, the only problem some people seem to be having is
following threads, which can be solved with the right mail handler
easily enough.
Can you think of any other problems that would make a change of venue
and format desirable or even compelling at this time? Really, most of
what I hear boils down to "Yahoo's sorting sucks" (which it does). I'll
admit, the problems we experienced recently in my area make me doubt
Yahoo somewhat, but a BBS would be similarly vulnerable to server
failures and technical glitches - though presumably a pay service might
be more reliable.

One thing NR does *not* have - and really needs - is a way to query the
Citizens. We have no idea what actual percentage is visiting the
YahooGroups site or having mail forwarded, how many use dialup or high
speed. No real numbers to work from, to identify need or capabilities
- or limitations. Reason for caution, to go slowly and carefully.

Vale
- Troianus


The only problem I have with them is
> - seems safer to recommend conspiracy theories and apocalyptic
> prophecies than that S place. ;)
>
Heh heh - it wasn't meant as a slight to the good people of the SVR. I
just don't like their site. At all.


> Vale bene
>
> - LFG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

P. Minius Albucius M. Arminio Maiori omnibusque s.d.

S.V.G.E.R.

You wrote:

(..)

> The Arqlex.doc lists all the leges approved in Nova Roma, included
> the superceded ones (that are excluded from the Tabularium), in a
> single archive, with 106 laws and 153 pages.
> The Listlex.doc is a statistics table, with comitia, date of
> approval etc.

Wonderful ! It joins my reflexions about how to get a better
approach to our global law production.

I think that the next step will be to think on a "Codex legium", so
that any citizen could verifiy, on any subject, what is the
applicable Law.

> Hope anyone of our new magistrates find some utility in it; if

not,

> is there anyway. :)

Yes, sure for me ! Thanks again.


Optime vale(-te).

scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia, Nonas Ian. MMDCCLVIII
a.u.c.


Publius Minius Albucius
Tribunus Plebis
Scriba Propraetoris Galliae
http://geocities.com/publiusalbucius/great_outdoors.html

G. Equitius Cato M. Arminio Maori S.P.D.

Salve, Arminius Maior.

Gratias tibi ago! Excellent set up. Long overdue. Between
Constantinus Fuscus' digest and yours, the laws are much more
approachable.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Arminius Maior"
<marminius@y...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
>
>
> I uploaded, to the "files" section of this email group, two
> archives; one called Arqlex.doc and another called Lexlist.doc,

both

> in MS Word.
> The Arqlex.doc lists all the leges approved in Nova Roma, included
> the superceded ones (that are excluded from the Tabularium), in a
> single archive, with 106 laws and 153 pages.
> The Listlex.doc is a statistics table, with comitia, date of
> approval etc.
> Hope anyone of our new magistrates find some utility in it; if

not,

> is there anyway. :)
>
>
> Vale
> M.Arminius

Salve Illustrus Pontifex Maximus,
I applaude you and teh Colelgium Pontificium for this iniziative, in
my opinion this is the correct way to "promote" the Religio Romana
at the non-pratictioners. I hope you too would send us some
istructions or suggestions to celebrate the next festiavals, it
would be very appreciable.
Thank you again

Vale
Fr. Apulus CAesar
Consul

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> As Pontifex Maximus I announce the Moveable Feriae for MMDCCLVIII
A.V.C.
>
> The Compitalia, the Celebration of the Lares Compitales, will be
tomorrow -
> Wednesday, January 5th.
>
> The Sementivae will be as follows:
>
> The Festival of Tellus will be on Monday, January 24th.
> The Festival of Ceres will be on Wednesday February 2nd.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
> Nova Roma
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

> I think that the next step will be to think on a "Codex legium", so
> that any citizen could verifiy, on any subject, what is the
> applicable Law.

Been there, done that, has to updated it with the last 6 months of laws tho.

It's at http://village.flashnet.it/~ua01823/Codex/

vale


Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
PF Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis
--
Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f

Sponsor:
Mal di schiena? Le nostre panche ad inversione sono la soluzione giusta per
te: distendono la colonna vertebrale e rilassano i muscoli.

Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=2843&d=20050105

Really nice work Fuscus!! A great initiative!
Vale,
Diana

> Been there, done that, has to updated it with the
> last 6 months of laws tho.
>
> It's at http://village.flashnet.it/~ua01823/Codex/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

Salve Valeria Metella,

Try this site where there is some interesting data:

http://www.thetroth.org/resources/ourtroth/burial.html

Regards,

QLP

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "immaculo" <immaculo@b...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> I have a question for anyone who knows about Indo-European
burials.
> I recall reading that the bodies were placed in a particular
> direction but, I cannot remember what direction it was. I've
> apparently misplaced the book, which is a text book, and I've
found
> references to it in my search. If anyone knows or could look this
> up for me I would greatly appreciate it. The book that I'm
refering
> to is "In Search of the Indo-Europeans".
>
> Valete,
> Valeria Metella

Salvete Omnes,

PhP lists from our own site do offer us a better level of control,
but they also come with work and maintenance. Transferring the data
isn't a huge problem as we can use the migratory approach. Those who
want to continue a thread over on a new board simply cut and paste
from their yahoo window to the new window while both are open. Then,
the thread is transferred. Eventually all the ones on this list will
be exhausted and full transfer complete. Marcus Octavius is already
backing up our messages here to the NR web and they are searchable
there, so we shouldn't lose anything in total so long as he does a
back up again.

Though it will be a pain for some, most particularly those who are
using the connect-dump-disconnect method via email, most should find
it easier since all the various lists associated with NR will be in
one place with the most recent message time on the front page. No
more clicking on each group to see if a response has been received.
Just hit F5 and refresh the page.

I fully agree that because we are international and the modem
still rules in much of the land, we should avoid pretty pictures and
stay with the more streamlined version. (Those of us on cable or DSL
tend to forget the way it was with a modem, so a modem volunteer
would be good as a tester.) This is actually pretty easy to do and
simply means less customization of appearance. You can also set them
up so that they will automatically forward responses to email,
depending on the shell of the site.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> Salve LF Graecus -
> On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:51 AM, L.F. Graecus wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius

Troianus

> > <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> >> I'm not persuaded. Not even close - *especially* by any

referral to

> >> SVR's site as an example.
> >
> > Okay, I admit it wasn't a great example. I maybe should have

just

> > stopped at 'PhP bulletin board system' which are all very
> > configurable. A better example of use is
> > http://www.fulldisklosure.org
>
> Yes, those are nice setups. Very easy to navigate and everything

right

> there on the Menu Bar, with the latest topics prominently in the
> middle. I do a lot of BBS browsing, and the PhP's are good.
> One thing solidly in its favour would be the ability to list all
> Sodalitates and side Lists - actually there are probably too many,

but

> a front page menu could list categories like "Regional

Announcement

> Lists", "Interest Groups" and so on, which in turn take you to a
> complete list for that category - link, link & there you are.

Most

> people don't even know of all the smaller Lists available. I keep
> having to advise new Citizens to do a Google search and ignore the

Nova

> Roma hotel chain, just to see what's available.
>
> One drawback would be the loading speed. In all honesty, my mail
> handler is faster than my web browser & I have all mail forwarded

from

> the Lists to my computer - much, much faster than waiting for each
> linked-to page to load from a bulletin board.
> Another advantage of doing it that way is the ability to work on
> e-mails offline - important in a house with a shared phone line:

Just

> "Get Mail", then disconnect. Others can use the phone line while

I

> read and answer all NR stuff "offline". My responses queue up in

my

> "Out" box until I re-connect, then they auto-send. Very

efficient.

> With a bulletin board I can't respond disconnected, nor can I read
> anything beyond the currently loaded page. That's a drawback.
> Still, a BBS system has many advantages, I'll agree. It also may

be

> *necessary* as NR continues to grow, because of sheer volume. If

it

> ever reaches the point of thousands of postings on a single day,

it

> will become impossible to read everything, yet alone find anything

in

> particular. By averaging over a hundred messages a day it's

already

> stretching *my* limitations, though my computer has no problems

with it

> - yet. (Knock on wood veneer.) It may get to the point of

*having* to

> pick & choose between threads, at some point.
> That kind of growth would actually be nice!
> For now, though, the only problem some people seem to be having is
> following threads, which can be solved with the right mail handler
> easily enough.
> Can you think of any other problems that would make a change of

venue

> and format desirable or even compelling at this time? Really,

most of

> what I hear boils down to "Yahoo's sorting sucks" (which it does).

I'll

> admit, the problems we experienced recently in my area make me

doubt

> Yahoo somewhat, but a BBS would be similarly vulnerable to server
> failures and technical glitches - though presumably a pay service

might

> be more reliable.
>
> One thing NR does *not* have - and really needs - is a way to

query the

> Citizens. We have no idea what actual percentage is visiting the
> YahooGroups site or having mail forwarded, how many use dialup or

high

> speed. No real numbers to work from, to identify need or

capabilities

> - or limitations. Reason for caution, to go slowly and carefully.
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
>
>
> The only problem I have with them is
> > - seems safer to recommend conspiracy theories and apocalyptic
> > prophecies than that S place. ;)
> >
> Heh heh - it wasn't meant as a slight to the good people of the

SVR. I

> just don't like their site. At all.
>
>
> > Vale bene
> >
> > - LFG

> >

Salvete Omnes,

On the NR main site I would like to propose that some of our new
magistrates get their pictures in the magistrates album on the NR
main site; for that matter, the pater and materfamili also. It is
always nice to put a face on the people you work with.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Ex Officio Censoris Gnaei Equiti Marini

EDICTVM CENSORIVM A GNAEO EQVITIO MARINO I

De Creatione Scribarum

On the Naming of Scribae

Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo.

I hereby appoint the following citizens as my scribae, together
with all the obligations and privileges prescribed by the laws of Nova Roma.

Flavia Tullia Valeria Scholastica, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (antea Renata
Corva Cantrix), Julilla Sempronia Magna, et Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Postumianus scribae creantur.

Flavia Tullia Valeria Scholastica, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (formerly
Renata Corva Cantrix), Julilla Sempronia Magna and Quintus Caecilius
Metellus Postumianus are appointed scribae.

Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur.

They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.

Hoc edictum statim valet.

This edict is effective immediately.

Datum sub manu mea Nonus Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII ab urbe condita

Given under my hand this 5th day of January 2758 a.u.c (2005 C.E.)

Francisco Apulo Caesare Gaio Popillio Laenate consulibus.

In the consulship of Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius
Laenas.

Salve Censor Marinus,

Wow! Talk about the ultimate backup and support!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Ex Officio Censoris Gnaei Equiti Marini
>
> EDICTVM CENSORIVM A GNAEO EQVITIO MARINO I
>
> De Creatione Scribarum
>
> On the Naming of Scribae
>
> Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
> omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo.
>
> I hereby appoint the following citizens as my scribae, together
> with all the obligations and privileges prescribed by the laws of

Nova Roma.

>
> Flavia Tullia Valeria Scholastica, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (antea

Renata

> Corva Cantrix), Julilla Sempronia Magna, et Quintus Caecilius

Metellus

> Postumianus scribae creantur.
>
> Flavia Tullia Valeria Scholastica, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (formerly
> Renata Corva Cantrix), Julilla Sempronia Magna and Quintus

Caecilius

> Metellus Postumianus are appointed scribae.
>
> Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur.
>
> They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.
>
> Hoc edictum statim valet.
>
> This edict is effective immediately.
>
> Datum sub manu mea Nonus Ianuarias MMDCCLVIII ab urbe condita
>
> Given under my hand this 5th day of January 2758 a.u.c (2005 C.E.)
>
> Francisco Apulo Caesare Gaio Popillio Laenate consulibus.
>
> In the consulship of Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius
> Laenas.

Salve Quinte Lani,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:

> Salve Censor Marinus,
>
> Wow! Talk about the ultimate backup and support!

Hey, when you have good people you hang onto them. In 5 days I've seen
that there's a lot of work in a Censor's life. My colleague has done an
excellent job of assembling a great group of people, and now I'm
bringing in a few of my own. Depending on how things go I may be adding
a few more in about 5 or 6 months, as we ramp up to the biennial census.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salva Annia Octavia Indagatrix -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 11:06 AM, aoctaviaindagatrix wrote:

> You can also set them up so that they will automatically forward
> responses to email,
> depending on the shell of the site.
>
Really? I didn't know they had that capability.
Which for those of us who forward everything as e-mails just leaves the
question: Is it possible to set it up so all chosen Forums e-mail all
postings, or is it limited to replies only? On those boards where I am
a member, I have found the "reply" notices unhelpful, since they don't
tell you if anyone has replied to other portions of the thread, posted
by someone else - one is potentially missing over half of the
conversation. Which means logging into and remaining on the Board,
which may mean more "casual" Citizens.

Vale
- Troianus

Ex Officio Propraetoris Galliae

Edictum Propraetoricium XIII

About the appointement of a Legate in Regio Nova Lugdunensis

Flavius Minius Clinamens is hereby appointed as legate for Regio
Nova Lugdunensis. He will exert in this Regio all the
responsibilities, will be held of all the obligations, and will be
able to take all the initiatives, attached to his office and to his
rank and defined in Edictum Propraetoricium I.

He is asked to, within one week for the appointment date, swear the
public oath shown in Lex Iunia de Iusiurando
(http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lex99191002.html). The Oath must
be published on the Gallia List and the Nova Roma Main List.

This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given in Lutetia January the 05, Year 2005 of the current Era, in
the year of the consulship of Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius
Popillius Laenas Nonus IANVARIAS MMDCCLVIII AUC.



Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ex Officio Propraetoris Galliae

Edictum Propraetoricium XIII

Concernant la nomination du Légat pour la Regio Nova Lugdunensis

Flavius Minius Clinamens est nommé Légat pour la Regio Nova
Lugdunensis. Il exercera dans cette Regio toutes les responsabilités,
sera tenu de toutes les obligations, et pourra prendre toutes les
initiatives, attachées à sa charge et à son rang et définies dans
l'Edictum Propraetoricium I.

Il est tenu, dans les huit jours de la date de sa nomination, de
prêter le serment public requis par la Lex Iunia de Iusiurando
(http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lex99191002.html). Le Serment doit
être publié sur la Liste de Gallia et la Liste Principale de Nova Roma.

Cet Edictum est applicable immédiatement.

Fait à Lutèce le 5 Janvier, Année 2005 de l'Ere courante, année du
Consulat de Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas
IANVARIAS MMDCCLVIII AUC.

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor

Salvete Omnes

I'd support anything that gets us away from Yahoo. It has too many
annoying features and too few good ones. I really hate is the
requirement to enter my password every 24 hours. It's frustrating
and there's nothing of critical importance (such as my bank details)
on my account anyway. We also can't edit or delete our posts.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

T. Octavius Salvius

Salve T. Octavius Salvius -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 5:29 PM, t_octavius_salvius wrote:

> I really hate is the requirement to enter my password every 24 hours.
> It's frustrating

I agree. Set your Yahoo account to forward everything to your home
computer as e-mails. That's what I did. That way you don't *ever*
have to visit the site - it all just magically appears whenever you
check your Mail. Very handy!

Vale
- Troianus

Ave,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius
Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> There are many mail handler programs that will organize mail

any way

> you want: By person, subject/thread, date received and so on.

If

> that's the main complaint, it is one that is easy enough to fix

with a

> simple download.

I guess I'm kind of a neat freak and like how a typical forum (at
least in my experiance) looks as opposed to even something
such as this. With a board of foorums, everything is always in
the same place.

> I can't speak for others, but I for one long ago began

simplifying my

> life by refusing to sign up for anything requiring yet another

login

> passcode - I got tired of keeping track of them all, simply put. If

it

> doesn't have a "remember password" option, I don't use it

anymore.

> It's as simple as that. Have to log in for each session? No

thanks,

> with vehemence. I stopped even *looking* at anything in

WebRing for

> just that reason. Checking something out should not require a

Login

> each time or a membership in advance.

I guess every forum I have been a member of has had this
option to "Always Log-in".

> The ease of management is the primary concern: We have a

different

> elected amateur each year. Often gifted, very bright individuals,

but

> they're volunteers - it mustn't be any more difficult than

necessary,

> or no one will volunteer for the job.

How would it be any more difficult than a Yahoo Group? If you
are refering to Administration and Moderation of the board and
its various forums, I agree that it would be unwise to have
elected officials in these positions, and I am not advocating
such. These positions should be held by volunteers with the
necessary skills (or who can be trained to have them, which isn't
that difficult with most of your boards), who would be appointed
to these positions and hold them for as long as they will have
them.

> Very few people Post while still just a "Visitor", so I'm not

following

> your reasoning here. It would only make things a bit more

frustrating

> for those few who do, and therefore might actually cost us a

few

> potential Citizens. As it is, our "Welcome" mat is always out -

all

> are free to come, to read, to join in on the spur of the moment if

they

> wish. You would be retracting that "Welcome", and make them

jump

> through hoops and wait on the Censors response before they

could even

> *test* interacting with any of our people. I'm against this

notion - I

> like our perpetual "Welcome" policy.

I was simply listing options that most forums have. You can also
set up a visitor's forum. Most boards to which I am a member do
not allow non-members to post because of problems in the past
with trolls and spammers.

> > I fully agree, and I think it would serve as a better one. You

might

> > want to take a look at what SVR has going (only endorsing a

working

> > example of Roman forums, not content). ...
>
> Been there, got frustrated, then left. Been there three different
> times in the past year, in fact, since occassionally people

speak well

> of it - and absolutely hated the setup. Browsing? Difficult.

Many

> things restricted. You need a roadmap and an instruction book

and

> frankly that's too much work just to check out what appears to

be a

> social group & see if it might be worthwhile. I'd be very

surprised if

> anyone just casually goes there to check them out.
>
> In fact, last time I looked at them they appear to have changed

format,

> since the first time I checked them out last year - and that

change was

> even worse. I don't know if it's a problem with that kind of

system in

> general or if they just have a bad Webmaster who set it up

poorly, but

> it definitely makes me leery of the entire format: Whenever I

see

> something similar, I just exit. Immediately. I don't even bother
> trying to navigate it, since they all are slightly different. Just not
> worth the hassle. If something has restricted or blocked

access, I

> want to know *before* I try selecting it so I won't be wasting my

time.

> Likewise, why on Earth would I join something that I haven't

even been

> able to check out?

I would advocate UBB format; it's very simple and intuative. As
for not joining before you can check out, isn't Yahoo already like
that, where you can't see anything until you have been added to
the list? All the boards I have been a member of _do_ let visitors
read through their forums, even if they have policies against
non-members posting there.

> As long as the space remains free, I'd wager most of the

Sodalitates

> will stay right where they are: Most are "owned" by various

Citizens,

> not by the Senate, and would have no reason to change.

Well, that would be their choice, of course, I guess, but each
having their own forum might make life easier for them. I guess
the emphasis would be on the "might" here because everyone
has their own preferance.

> It's been hashed out before, and no doubt will be again.

There's

> always someone who says "But these other types look so

COOL!!! We

> should have one of these!"

I've said nothing of the sort, I am mearly pointing out a system
that has great potential to improve our community. My example
was just that, an example, to show the UBB format, not the
content, or the flashing icon at the top of the page used to keep
track of donations.

> I'm not persuaded.
> Not even close - *especially* by any referral to SVR's site as an
> example.

What about UBB or PHP?

> Vale
> - S E M Troianus

Vale,

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

Master Maior;

I am an infrequent visitor to this list, any more, as I have in the past found many offensive comments herein. The recent public discussion regarding my very personal beliefs is a case in point.

Some have indicated that I have "shell-like ears," however as I have responded, that is a false assumption as well. Very much as Master Saturnius has recently said, harsh, acid and gutter language I believe is unnecessary and inappropriate. While I have heard a great deal of it in my time, it depresses me, and I do not care for it. Therefore I do not care to indulge in a List that allows such.

In my view, the English language is rich enough that an educated person does not need to descend to those depths, and I understand that there is still a list in which to indulge oneself in such if the need be too great to resist.

However, I don't believe that you and i Have ever had words, and so while your offer probably does not apply to me for cause, I am pleased to accept your offer of the Olive Branch, commend you for your decision to make the offer, and could wish that those who engage in such language as described above would have the courage and strength to make the same offer.

I offer my thanks as well to you and to all on this list whom I might have offended by word or action, I too, am pleased to extend my apologies and the Olive Branch so recently accepted from Master Maior.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
Senator and ProConsul

Ladies and Gentlemen;

A further consideration is that there are those Citizens who use Webtv
instead of a computer. Very oftenWebtv cannot acces som of the more
exoticweb formats. So while you are looking for a suitable substitute
for Yahoo, remember that there are those who are very interested (such
as myself) but who have little idea wat you are talking about on the
MainList. When you start using initials and code words you leave me
behind.

Since I am honored to be a member of the Senate those items wil have to
be explained to the satisfaction of those like myself who do not talk
the language of the internet, so the explanations will have to be made
sooner or later, at your choice.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens


Wishing you all the best, with Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Salve Romans

I was wondering if any body knows of any out-of print books on
Roman....anything that we could have reprinted. For example I have a
volume of the History for Young Readers: ROME dated 1912 and
written by E. M. Sewell and published by D. Appleton and Company
that might be something we could reprint as a "Nova Roma" imprint.
We would need to research the copyrights and such but we could
reproduce some nice books on Rome establish and a small publishing
branch that will add money to the treasury?

Any suggestions?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Salve(-te)


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:


(..) if any body knows of any out-of print books on

> Roman....anything that we could have reprinted.

(..)

> We would need to research the copyrights and such but we could
> reproduce some nice books on Rome establish and a small
>publishing branch that will add money to the treasury?

Excellent idea, Tribune ! I back it up.

Scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia, a.d. VIII Id. Ian.
MMDCCLVIII a.u.c.

Publius Minius Albucius
Tribunus Plebis
Scriba Propraetoris Galliae
http://www.geocities.com/publiusalbucius/great_outdoors.html

Salvete Gnaeus Marinus, Marcus Audens et Omnes!

I have found a little toy that I think might interest the above fine
gentlemen, who are my dear friends, and with whom I share some
interest in military history. I also think that they both, deep down,
still are boys. ;-) As I myself certainly still is a boy, not very
deep down at all, I have decided to share the following toy with
these boys, so that we as boys might have some fun and relax from all
serious business. (All three of us are quite good at serious business
too. ;-) ) The rest of You may also take a peek at my suggestion to
them. There might even be some more "boys" or "girl" out there.

So over to the fun. The toy is rather serious, but still fun and
entertaining. And the best of it all, it is Roman:

It is the board game: "The Rise of the Roman Republic" (RRR) in "The
Ancient" world" series. The game is published by "GMT Games" and
there will soon be published another game in the series called
"Carthage"soon:
http://www.gmtgames.com/awcarth/main.html

RRR seem to be very interesting GMT has actually tried very hard to
combine history, with gaming and fun. GMT has a very good idea
because You can print the rules if You go to their "live rules" page
at: http://www.gmtgames/living_rules/living_rules.html

A short description of the game can be found at:
http://www.gmtgames.com/gmt0g.htm#aw

GMT:s mainpage is located at: http://www.gmtgames.com/

Please tell me if You already is a naughty little boy or girl and
already have played this game. I have ordered it from Germany and
hope to have it with me within two months. If You buy or play the
game because of me, only tell me if it was good. I don't want lawyers
breathing down my neck. ;-)

OK, I think I dare listen what all of You say. What do You think?

Salve Romans

Would any of our resident lawyers be available to help with a
copyright search? So far I have found no evidence that the book I
mentioned, History for Young Readers: Rome by Miss E. M. Sewell
and published in 1912 is still copyrighted.

Any help would be appreciated.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Minius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@h...> wrote:

>
> Salve(-te)
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:
>
>
> (..) if any body knows of any out-of print books on
> > Roman....anything that we could have reprinted.
>
> (..)
>
> > We would need to research the copyrights and such but we could
> > reproduce some nice books on Rome establish and a small
> >publishing branch that will add money to the treasury?
>
>
> Excellent idea, Tribune ! I back it up.
>
> Scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia, a.d. VIII Id. Ian.
> MMDCCLVIII a.u.c.
>
> Publius Minius Albucius
> Tribunus Plebis
> Scriba Propraetoris Galliae
> http://www.geocities.com/publiusalbucius/great_outdoors.html

Salve,

Just because a work is out of print does not mean the copyright has
expired.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:

>
> Salve Romans
>
> I was wondering if any body knows of any out-of print books on
> Roman....anything that we could have reprinted. For example I have

a

> volume of the History for Young Readers: ROME dated 1912 and
> written by E. M. Sewell and published by D. Appleton and Company
> that might be something we could reprint as a "Nova Roma" imprint.
> We would need to research the copyrights and such but we could
> reproduce some nice books on Rome establish and a small

publishing

> branch that will add money to the treasury?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Salvete,

There has been a good deal of talk regarding "replacing" the current Nova
Roma main list with a different sort of forum. I certainly agree that there are
certain advantages to an "online forum" as opposed to the current Yahoo list.

However, there is *no* possibility that an online forum will be replacing
this list entirely. There are many reasons for this. Some people want to receive
lists in their email rather than having to find them online. Some folks just
aren't that computer literate, or have systems which might have trouble with
online forums.

The largest reason for not abandoning this list is quite simple: public
exposure. Yahoo groups are huge forums. People "find" Nova Roma by searching
through Yahoo and finding us in the Yahoo search engine. None of the other online
forums have anything like Yahoo's numbers or searchability... no matter what
wonderful features the forums themselves have.

At this point in time Nova Roma is terribly "under advertised." We aren't
particularly well placed in any of the Web searches, including Google. (In
fact, we're very difficult to find under any search engine criteria other than
"Religio Romana." Searches on terms such as Roman, Roman Pagan, Roman nation,
Roman Micronation, Roman reenactment, Roman sovereignty, and a whole bunch of
others don't seem to list Nova Roma as far up as even the first ten or twenty
pages (and I mean *pages* of lists, not individual listings themselves.)

In short, we can afford to *augment* the communications of Nova Roma by
*adding* a new forum that has new features, but it would be unwise in the extreme
to abandon Yahoo completely. It is the place where Yahoo is the "most
findable" on the entire Internet... and it happens to be a place where a lot of
people are actually looking around for stuff to find us.

I'd be happy to see the infrastructure of Nova Roma expanded by another
forum that would be easier to deal with messages by thread. However, as the
"owner" of this list, I assure everyone that this list isn't going to "go away."
We need this place as an outreach tool.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Pontifex Maximus, Pater Patriae


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marcus Cornelius Tiberius et salvete omnes -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Marcus Cornelius Tiberius wrote:
> Ave,

Please pardon the length, everyone.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>> There are many mail handler programs that will organize mail any way
>> you want: By person, subject/thread, date received and so on. If
>> that's the main complaint, it is one that is easy enough to fix with
>> a simple download.

> I guess I'm kind of a neat freak and like how a typical forum (at
> least in my experiance) looks as opposed to even something such as
> this.

Oh, I agree that appearance is of some importance. I think that's been
well accomplished with our initial page with the Wolf and the Twins.
Once they get further in, they're either interested in the content or
they're not.

On a day-to-day level, for existing members, appearance doesn't matter
much. Since I have everything forwarded as e-mails I never even look
at the site except when it's time to vote.

It's that sort of everyday convenience that is a plus. It's just
e-mails, and we all check our e-mail every day anyway. Simplicity
itself. A BBS may look nicer and be well organized, but it still
takes a lot longer to load than e-mails. For our active Citizens who
are here several times a day, that's important.

> With a board of foorums, everything is always in the same place.
>
True, and this would be a big plus for checking out the various
interest groups, which currently have to be Googled for since there is
no central directory listing them all.

However, it's entirely possible for someone to create a Links e-mail
listing all known NR groups and just post it periodically. There are
ways to accomplish most things already. They just aren't as elegant.

>> I can't speak for others, but I for one long ago began simplifying my
>> life by refusing to sign up for anything requiring yet another login
>> passcode - I got tired of keeping track of them all, simply put. If
>> it doesn't have a "remember password" option, I don't use it anymore.
>> It's as simple as that. Have to log in for each session? No
> thanks, with vehemence. I stopped even *looking* at anything in
> WebRing for just that reason. Checking something out should not
> require a Login each time or a membership in advance.
>
> I guess every forum I have been a member of has had this option to
> "Always Log-in".

I have come across quite a few that don't, so I'm just saying this is a
feature we definitely want to make sure is available.

As a personal aside, while Yahoo *theoretically* has this option, it
has never worked for *me* - when it's time to vote or change my
settings I have to log in. Fortunately it's one of the few I've used
often enough to have memorized.
>
>> The ease of management is the primary concern: We have a different
>> elected amateur each year. Often gifted, very bright individuals,
>> but they're volunteers - it mustn't be any more difficult than
>> necessary, or no one will volunteer for the job.
>
> How would it be any more difficult than a Yahoo Group?

I don't know, and that is what makes it a crucial question for those
who *do* know. One person has already responded that she *knows* that
the PhP boards require more maintenance and hands-on webmastering than
the YahooGroups do - and we had no takers (who were of age) for the
Webmaster's magistracy. So some none web savvy volunteer is going to
have to keep it going until we find a new Webmaster. See the problem?
Ease is a MUST.

> If you are refering to Administration and Moderation of the board and
> its various forums, I agree that it would be unwise to have elected
> officials in these positions, and I am not advocating such. These
> positions should be held by volunteers with the necessary skills (or
> who can be trained to have them, which isn't that difficult with most
> of your boards), who would be appointed to these positions and hold
> them for as long as they will have them.
>
>> Very few people Post while still just a "Visitor", so I'm not
>> following your reasoning here. It would only make things a bit more
>> frustrating for those few who do, and therefore might actually cost
>> us a few potential Citizens. As it is, our "Welcome" mat is always
>> out - all are free to come, to read, to join in on the spur of the
>> moment if they wish. You would be retracting that "Welcome", and
>> make them jump through hoops and wait on the Censors response before
>> they could even *test* interacting with any of our people. I'm
>> against this notion - I like our perpetual "Welcome" policy.
>
> I was simply listing options that most forums have.

Oh, I know - and it's appreciated. :-)
We *will* outgrow an e-mail group at some point, so it's wise to
explore our options. I figure we have at most a year or three before
moving becomes an absolute necessity. Depends on Citizen retention.

> You can also set up a visitor's forum. Most boards to which I am a
> member do not allow non-members to post because of problems in the
> past with trolls and spammers.

We solve that by putting newbies on Moderation, where every post has to
be cleared by a Moderator before it appears on the board. It works.
>
>>> I fully agree, and I think it would serve as a better one. You might
>>> want to take a look at what SVR has going (only endorsing a working
>>> example of Roman forums, not content). ...
>>
>> Been there, got frustrated, then left. Been there three different
>> times in the past year, in fact, since occassionally people speak
>> well of it - and absolutely hated the setup. Browsing? Difficult.
>> Many things restricted. You need a roadmap and an instruction book
>> and frankly that's too much work just to check out what appears to be
>> a social group & see if it might be worthwhile. I'd be very
>> surprised if anyone just casually goes there to check them out.
>>
>> In fact, last time I looked at them they appear to have changed
>> format, since the first time I checked them out last year - and that
>> change was even worse. I don't know if it's a problem with that kind
>> of system in general or if they just have a bad Webmaster who set it
>> up poorly, but it definitely makes me leery of the entire format:
>> Whenever I see something similar, I just exit. Immediately. I don't
>> even bother trying to navigate it, since they all are slightly
>> different. Just not worth the hassle. If something has restricted
>> or blocked access, I want to know *before* I try selecting it so I
>> won't be wasting my time. Likewise, why on Earth would I join
>> something that I haven't even been
>> able to check out?
>
> I would advocate UBB format; it's very simple and intuative. As for
> not joining before you can check out, isn't Yahoo already like that,
> where you can't see anything until you have been added to the list?

No. I didn't have to become a Yahoo member until I actually decided to
join NR. Up 'til then, I was able to view pages and see if a group was
worthwhile - which is *not* the case with many other services, like MSN
or WebRing, where they require you to become a member *first* and log
in every time - hence that thrice damned three ring binder full of
Logins, Usernames and Passcodes that is now gathering dust because the
hassle just isn't worth it.

> All the boards I have been a member of _do_ let visitors read through
> their forums, even if they have policies against non-members posting
> there.

Guess I websurf in more obscure places than you do, because I've come
accross quite a few that do *not*. Which is a shame, because if it's a
relatively small webservice company then it is simply *not* worth
filling out a Membership and waiting for the confirmation e-mail just
to check out *one* site that might not even be any good.

Most boards *do* allow viewing but not posting for visitors, but not
all. Quite a few services are ad driven and want clicks for ad revenue
and your e-mail address to sell to spammers. It's how they stay
"free". Of course, none of us want spam - which is why I now just exit
rather than signing up to check it out. More people are doing the
same, and we do *not* want to be with such a service. We want
interested people to be able to check us out with no hassle.
>
>> As long as the space remains free, I'd wager most of the Sodalitates
>> will stay right where they are: Most are "owned" by various Citizens,
>> not by the Senate, and would have no reason to change.
>
> Well, that would be their choice, of course, I guess, but each having
> their own forum might make life easier for them. I guess the emphasis
> would be on the "might" here because everyone has their own
> preferance.
>
Too true, which is why ideally we would pick a type of board that
allows us to put Links there - even if those Links are to YahooGroups -
just so we can show all interest groups and announcement Lists in the
same place.

>> It's been hashed out before, and no doubt will be again. There's
>> always someone who says "But these other types look so COOL!!! We
>> should have one of these!"
>
> I've said nothing of the sort,

I didn't say that *you* did, I said that some have - and they have.
This topic has come up before. Plenty of web wallahs have suggested
change because they feel our current site looks plain: They want
movement, fading graphics, blinking icons and all the rest of the
current crop of bells and whistles because they look spiffy.

> I am mearly pointing out a system that has great potential to improve
> our community. My example was just that, an example, to show the UBB
> format, not the content, or the flashing icon at the top of the page
> used to keep
> track of donations.
>
Yep, I agree - other systems *do* have potential. That's why a few of
us are taking time to have this discussion, no?

>> I'm not persuaded.Not even close - *especially* by any referral to
>> SVR's site as an example.
>
> What about UBB or PHP?

I like PHP boards. I'm pretty sure I've seen UBB's before, too, but no
examples spring to mind (I do a LOT of web surfing) - Could you please
post a link to an example, so I can check it out?

Thanks!

Also, let's start keeping a "Wish List" at the bottom of this dialogue,
to keep track of the features that a future site ought to have.

For example:

Ease and speed of loading, for dialup users.
Links permitted - both within the board and externally to YahooGroups
(for example)
Pictures permitted - YahooGroups do not allow attachments, and there's
lots of great Roman pictures out there.
New Activity Notices: If you *have* to log onto and stay on a Board,
don't waste time loading Forum pages with no new activity! New
activity needs to be clearly evident or have notices sent.
MUST have the broadest compatibility possible - We have people on many
different browsers and OS's. It must work for *everyone*.
Ease of Maintenance - Our Webmaster is an annually elected position
with a new person each year. It must be easy to run and as foolproof
as possible.
Content must be viewable my non-Members. We *want* people to check us
out!

These are just a few of the things we've covered so far. Let's flesh
it out into a full list of desired options, so a real search can be
undertaken. While the discussion is worthwhile in and of itself, we
really should strive to have something to *show* for our efforts! ;-)
>
Vale et valete
- S E M Troianus
>> Vale
>> - S E M Troianus
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salve Senator Audens -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 7:39 PM, jmath669642reng@... wrote:
> Ladies and Gentlemen;

Salve Senator Audens, et salvete omnes -
>
> A further consideration is that there are those Citizens who use Webtv
> instead of a computer. Very oftenWebtv cannot acces som of the more
> exoticweb formats.

Have no fear! "Maximum compatibility" is on the list of traits
required - & examples will have to be checked by people with differing
systems *first* just to make sure. As my own web browser runs into the
same situation at times, it's an issue I am very sensitive to.

> So while you are looking for a suitable substitute for Yahoo,
> remember that there are those who are very interested (such as myself)
> but who have little idea wat you are talking about on the MainList.
> When you start using initials and code words you leave me behind.
>
I am very much in the same boat - I recognize most of the technical
terms but often have only the vaguest notion what they mean and no idea
about their technical applications. Hence leaping into this
conversation: Enlightened self interest. Don't want Techspeak and
Jargon to override common sense and practicality.

> Since I am honored to be a member of the Senate those items wil have
> to be explained to the satisfaction of those like myself who do not
> talk the language of the internet, so the explanations will have to be
> made sooner or later, at your choice.

Thank you! I shall use this quote to persuade the technologically
savvy Web-wallahs to periodically translate it into plain English for
all of our benefit. :-)

We will soon be reaching the practical limit of an e-mail list, as the
daily flood of e-mails shows. It seems a good idea to begin exploring
what qualities and capabilities we will want in the future, then begin
searching for something that might fit our future needs while meeting
everybody's capabilities. It will probably be a long, drawn out
process.

Vale bene
- S E M Troianus
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
>
>
> Wishing you all the best, with Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Okay my take on this is this:

Both formats yahoo and forum style have their pluses. Reflecting on my experience in using both forums to communicate for NR I would prefer Yahoo. Firstly, I like the fact that I can cite a specific post# if I quote someone or criticize someone for past words. This allows the reader to have a) a reference point and b) if the choose to double check and quikcly reference what I cited. It's also very public. So if someone who I don't keep in communication with regularly writes something I like or wish to follow through privately I can e-mail them privately or vice versa. Yahoo I also know when something new is written where as forum you have to follow through to check dates of last post and sometimes even times since multiple posts will likely be in one day. Forums have private messages which is cool (it keeps your privacy) but I'd rather have my e-mail addie there so someone could contact me privately and even continue to do so outside of the forum setting rather than have to
exchange. I also have reservations about PM's because of an experience on one I had. A gaming clan I was with had the umm "leaders" reading PM's being sent. I gave the guy a piece of my mind and well needless to say there was a departure of some nature from the group (use your imagination). So I find that to be rather uncomfortable or have misgivings. While I trust people here to have higher integrity than that that gives me misgivings about it being used or abused.

A plus would be clumping alot of the lists onto one forum. Moderator need only grant access to the ones you wish to be a part of or are authorized to access. This won't necessarily clean up people changing topics mid subject on posts (which I find annoying). But skip it and move on.

I agree with Cassius Julianus in the advertising. I came across NR doing a search for "Roma Victor" to get a wav of Maximus yelling it from Gladiator. Roma alone brought up for me several links to NR. So the more public the better. Ok well thats my rambling on this.

Cornelianus


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve GJC Cornelianus et salvete omnes -

On Jan 5, 2005, at 11:02 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
> Okay my take on this is this:
> Both formats yahoo and forum style have their pluses. Reflecting on
> my experience in using both forums to communicate for NR I would
> prefer Yahoo. Firstly, I like the fact that I can cite a specific
> post# if I quote someone or criticize someone for past words.

Can a BBS be set up to number the posts? It really is a good
reference, and a good point.

> This allows the reader to have a) a reference point and b) if the
> choose to double check and quikcly reference what I cited. It's also
> very public. So if someone who I don't keep in communication with
> regularly writes something I like or wish to follow through privately
> I can e-mail them privately or vice versa.

Another good point. Can a BBS be set to only accept messages from
valid e-mail accounts and show those return addresses? We don't allow
anonymous postings, and that would be a good policy to continue.

> Yahoo I also know when something new is written where as forum you
> have to follow through to check dates of last post and sometimes even
> times since multiple posts will likely be in one day.

Agreed. Any alternative venue would *have* to show the reader if
anything was New since their last visit. Otherwise our Citizens would
have to check every Forum they belong to, which would be a lot of
wasted load time since many of our Lists have low activity.

> Forums have private messages which is cool (it keeps your privacy)

Which is something we *cannot* have. We don't allow anonymous postings.

> but I'd rather have my e-mail addie there so someone could contact me
> privately and even continue to do so outside of the forum setting
> rather than have to exchange. I also have reservations about PM's
> because of an experience on one I had. A gaming clan I was with had
> the umm "leaders" reading PM's being sent. I gave the guy a piece of
> my mind and well needless to say there was a departure of some nature
> from the group (use your imagination). So I find that to be rather
> uncomfortable or have misgivings. While I trust people here to have
> higher integrity than that that gives me misgivings about it being
> used or abused.

Well, most of our group Lists *are* both privately owned and Moderated,
so there is nothing to prevent a Citizen being barred from one after
suitable warning. Fortunately, we have a high grade of members here -
I don't know of any cases of abuse of authority on any of the group
Lists. Some do have higher standards of civility than others, but
that's only to be expected among multiple Group Owners.

This would continue to be the case: Nova Roma doesn't "own" most of the
Sodalitate Lists. They would continue to be privately Moderated.
>
> A plus would be clumping alot of the lists onto one forum. Moderator
> need only grant access to the ones you wish to be a part of or are
> authorized to access. This won't necessarily clean up people changing
> topics mid subject on posts (which I find annoying). But skip it and
> move on.
>
Very much agreed: Having a master list of all interest groups and
announcement Lists would be a big plus. As it is now, only a fraction
are "Official", with Senate authorization and listed on our website.

> I agree with Cassius Julianus in the advertising.

So do I: We need more exposure, not less.
Web-wallahs, I know there's a "trick" to getting a higher prominence
from the Google algorithm - do any of you know how it's done? It
really would be great if Nova Roma showed up on the first page of a
Google search for "Rome".

> I came across NR doing a search for "Roma Victor" to get a wav of
> Maximus yelling it from Gladiator. Roma alone brought up for me
> several links to NR. So the more public the better.

I came accross it over in WebRings, after looking into a Hellenistic
group's site. We really are all over the place, just not very
prominently - often it's just as one of many "Friendly Sites" on a Link
page or deep into a search engine result, frequently several pages in.
We really need to improve this somehow. I'm certain there are many
others out there who are looking for something just like Nova Roma but
can't find us.

> Ok well thats my rambling on this.
>
Thanks, Cornelianus! You raised a number of very good points. I'm
very curious to see what the web savvy sorts have to say about the
shortcomings of bulletin boards and whether those concerns can be
addressed in that kind of Forum - there are many kinds of BBS out
there, and some of them may very well have all of these capabilities.
I don't know. Literally.

> Cornelianus
Vale et valete
- Troianus
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is ante diem VIII Idus Ianuarius; the day is Fastus, a Dies
Ater. Today was celebrated the nocturnal rites of Core.

"Not that fair field of Enna where Proserpine gathering flowers,
Herself a fairer flower by gloomy Dis was gathered, which cost Ceres
all that pain." - Milton, Paradise Lost, Book IV

Core became the Goddess Proserpine after her encounter with Pluto,
God of the Underworld. Core had been gathering lilies when Pluto
saw her, and struck with her beauty, fell in love, and dragged her
off to his kingdom; on his way, when he reached the River Cyane, and
it opposed his passage, he struck the riverbank with his trident,
and the earth opened and gave him a passage to Tartarus. Core's
mother, Ceres the Goddess of the harvest, searched everywhere for
her. In her grief over her missing daughter, and believing that the
earth itself had opened to allow Pluto to drag off her daughter,
Ceres refused to allow the earth to give its bounty; cattle died,
harvests withered where they stood, no new crops grew, and the earth
began to grow barren. Ceres then sat, weeping, under a willow tree
at the site of the future city of Eleusis. Arethusa, the nymph of
the River Cyane, explained to Ceres that while she was trying to
escape from Alphaeus, the amorous river God (a whole story in
itself!), she'd been through the Underworld and had seen Core (now
Proserpine) on the throne of Erebus there. Ceres then turned her
chariot towards heaven and hastened to present herself before the
throne of Iuppiter O.M. She told the story of her bereavement, and
implored Iuppiter to interfere to procure the restitution of her
daughter. Iuppiter consented on one condition, namely, that
Proserpine should not during her stay in the lower world have taken
any food; otherwise, the Fates forbade her release. Accordingly,
Mercury was sent, accompanied by Spring, to demand that Pluto
release Proserpine in accordance with this condition. Pluto, a
slippery and jealous God, agreed --- but Core had taken a
pomegranate which Pluto offered her, and had eaten six of the seeds.
This was enough to prevent her complete release; but a compromise
was made, by which she was to pass half the time with her mother,
and the rest with her husband Pluto, as the queen of the Underworld,
with the name Proserpine.

Sacred to Core are bats, willows, grain, and pomegranates. Like her
mother Ceres, she is depicted with a torch, crown, sceptre and
stalks of grain.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salve Q. Cassius Calvus

That is understood but as best I can tell any work written before
1978 had a 28 year copyright life and one 28 year renewal available
if taked (US LAW). So the copyright on a 1912 book would have run
till 1940 or as late as 1968. Our legal types in NR can tell us for
sure. I am not suggesting we do anything until we KNOW what works we
can reprint and what ones are worth reprinting. It would also be
nice if we could reprint some old historic comics with an ancient
history and/or Roman theme.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> Just because a work is out of print does not mean the copyright

has

> expired.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
> <spqr753@m...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Romans
> >
> > I was wondering if any body knows of any out-of print books on
> > Roman....anything that we could have reprinted. For example I

have

> a
> > volume of the History for Young Readers: ROME dated 1912 and
> > written by E. M. Sewell and published by D. Appleton and Company
> > that might be something we could reprint as a "Nova Roma"

imprint.

> > We would need to research the copyrights and such but we could
> > reproduce some nice books on Rome establish and a small
> publishing
> > branch that will add money to the treasury?
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Avete omnibus.
This comes, via a few forwards, from the SFWA ONLINE
UPDATE, #206, 1/2/2005; an electronic publication of
Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America.

Clarke Reports From Disaster Area
Sir Arthur C. Clarke, a longtime resident of Sri
Lanka, found himself in the midst of the Indian Ocean
tsunami disaster a week ago. Clarke was not hurt,
allaying fears many in the SF community had for his
safety. The message below is one he sent to Pamela
Sargent and George Zebrowski:
"Thank you for your concern about my safety in the
wake of last Sunday's devastating tidal wave. I am
enormously relieved that my family and household have
escaped the ravages of the sea that suddenly invaded
most parts of coastal Sri Lanka, leaving a trail of
destruction.
�But many others were not so fortunate. For over
two million Sri Lankans and a large number of foreign
tourists holidaying here, the day after Christmas
turned out to be a living nightmare reminiscent of The
Day After Tomorrow. My heart-felt sympathy goes out
to all those who lost family members or friends.
�Among those who directly experienced the waves were
my staff based at our diving station in Hikkaduwa, and
my holiday bungalows in Kahawa and Thiranagama, all
beachfront properties located in southern areas that
were badly hit. Our staff members are all safe, even
though some are badly shaken and relate harrowing
first hand accounts of what happened. Most of our
diving equipment and boats at Hikkaduwa were washed
away. We still don't know the full extent of damage
-- it will take a while for us to take stock as
accessing these areas is still difficult.
�This is indeed a disaster of unprecedented magnitude
for Sri Lanka, which lacks the resources and capacity
to cope with the aftermath. We are encouraging
concerned friends to contribute to the relief efforts
launched by various national and international
organisations. If you wish to join these efforts, I
can recommend two options.
- Contribute to a Sri Lanka disaster relief fund
launched by an internationally operating humanitarian
charity, such as Care or Oxfam.
- Alternatively, considering supporting Sarvodaya,
the largest development charity in Sri Lanka, which
has a 45-year track record in reaching out and helping
the poorest of the poor. Sarvodaya has mounted a well
organised, countrywide relief effort using their
countrywide network of offices and volunteers who work
in all parts of the country, well above ethnic and
other divisions. Their website, www.sarvodaya.lk,
provides bank account details for financial donations.
They also welcome contributions in kind -- a list of
urgently needed items is found at:
http://www.sarvodaya.lk/Inside_Page/urgently%20needed.htm
�There is much to be done in both short and long
terms for Sri Lanka to raise its head from this blow
from the seas. Among other things, the country needs
to improve its technical and communications facilities
so that effective early warnings can help minimise
losses in future disasters.
Arthur Clarke
29 December 2004"

Clarke has listed specific website addresses for the
above relief organizations on the homepage of the
Clarke Foundation, at
http://www.clarkefoundation.org/

End of clip from SFWA.

Cives, this is an excellent opportunity to help in a
guided and focused way, with the advice of a
knowledgeable individual who is actually on the scene.

Valete in luce deorum.
Salvia Sempronia Graccha
Cislunia melior, translunia celerior.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

"Which is something we *cannot* have. We don't allow anonymous postings."

--They're not really postings. It's like me e-mailing you or anyone else privately. My concern about the private messages despite high integrity of officials is like if I e-mail you privately and wahlah citzen C is over reading my e-mail before you even do...this was an extreme case I cited of someone going on a Stalinist power trip to put it nicely....

"I don't know of any cases of abuse of authority on any of the group Lists"

--I certainly would not suggest such of anyone without proof...I think the adults here have a little more maturity and integrity than what I described but agin it was an extreme case to point out why I have misgivings about certain forum features...

"I'm very curious to see what the web savvy sorts have to say about the shortcomings of bulletin boards and whether those concerns can be addressed in that kind of Forum"

--I'm curious as to whether they can be modified to carry over or rather maintain for us certain features Yahoo offers that are beneficial such as the post# for reference purposes...


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! � What will yours do?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Paulinus,

Good idea. I have to change my photo though because it
was too big and now my head looks sideways on the
website :-)
I would also like to suggest that Fuscus laws section
be linked to NR or if Fuscus allows it, the entire
thing to be put on the NR site. Honestly, it is simply
excellent.
Vale,
Diana




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso Corneliano S. Equitio Mercurio
Troiano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

One thing that Mercurius Troianus mentioned which should probably be
decided at the outset is a list of exactly those features that are
*necessary* as opposed to those which are secondary; the "bells and
whistles" would obviously fall into the latter category.

Caesar Cornelianus, you bring up several excellent issues regarding
what basically amounts to unhindered "freedom" of speech; freedom to
communicate privately as you see fit (among others), which is also a
concern of mine.

I guess one thing to remember is that *we* would decide the
parameters within which we want to work; the web-wallahs could then
tell us if what we want is *possible*. And Senator Audens is
correct in that whatever we decide should be geared towards ease of
use by the vast majority of our citizens, even if this means
sacrificing some of the bells and whistles.

Caesar Cornelianus, Mercurius Troianus, and Octavia Indagatrix, I'd
suggest that perhaps you might want to speak at length with L.
Modius Kaelus (maybe even create a List specifically for this
discussion); he has as I mentioned put an enormous amount of thought
into this precise topic, and you would probably understand him
better than I could :-)

Valete bene,

Cato

Salvwete omnes--

Regarding this idea of changing the provider of our mailing list from
yahoo to something else--

Passwords--I'm mainly indifferent to this. Entering a password is so
ubiquitous everywhere I go on the Web, that having to enter one for
Yahoo doesn't bother me.

What _does_ make things difficult about Yahoo is the inability to
organize messages for easy retrieval. Yahoo's search string function
doesn't work as well as it used to--it's gone decidedly downhill, as
raf as I'm concerned. It used to search the entirety of an archive,
and it no longer seems to do that; you have to keep paging through
messages, in hopes of finding the string of characters you are looking
for, once an archive gets big enough.

http://www.livejournal.com

If there were something that combined the best aspects of both Yahoo
and LiveJournal, I would love it. LiveJournal has something called the
memories page, in which you can store links to so-called 'memorable
posts' for easy retrieval later, and it can be personalized in each
person's journal to suit their needs. This makes posts on particular
subjects much easier to find in LJ than is possible in Yahoo.

Additionally, LJ is open-source, so the code could conceivably be
tinkered with by someone knowledgeable in it, to suit NR's needs.

The only downside to LJ is that the journal entries won't come to your
mailbox; only the replies to your entries do. However, you can at
least read everyone's messages on your Friends page, and you can
configure your settings so that you need not log in every time you
visit the site.

I would love to be able to tinker with LJ code well enough to assist
with such a thing, but unfortunately, that's not my area of geekdom.
(g)

Paulla Corva Gaudialis
(Renata)

Salve Diana,

As always, its great to hear from you again. Thanks for supporting
that idea about photos.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Aventina <dianaaventina@y...>
wrote:

> Salve Paulinus,
>
> Good idea. I have to change my photo though because it
> was too big and now my head looks sideways on the
> website :-)
> I would also like to suggest that Fuscus laws section
> be linked to NR or if Fuscus allows it, the entire
> thing to be put on the NR site. Honestly, it is simply
> excellent.
> Vale,
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Salvete, cives.

I wonder can anyone help me - I'd like to have (buy, get anyhow…) something Novaroman - as e.g. NR sestertii ("sold out" at the main site;((() or NR flag… Where to find these things?

P.S. I even myself made an SPQR flag:) Well… not really myself, I asked my girl:) But of course I'd like to have something more professionally made.
--
Valete bene,
A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus mailto:sarmaticus@...
Civis Romanus

Master Tiberius;

I thank you for the publishing idea. I had wanted to publish a series
of Roman Poetry, early on and had the author convinced that it was a
good idea when I was a Consul. However, one of the Verbal Citizens,
opened his / her mouth, insulted the author and he withdrew his offer
and left NR.

(Another casualty with "shell-like" ears that did not want his work
published by a group represented to him as a People who could not be
polite in their disagreements.)

The following books are ones which I have copied for my own use, and
which now reside in home-made covers in my Roman Library. Perhaps they
may be of some small use to you in your idea:

--Simon James,""Ancient Rome -- Eyewitness Books," Alfred A. Knopf Inc.
(Borzoi Book), New York, 1990. ISBN 0-679-90741-6 (lib. bdg.);

--Mike Corbishley,"Ancient Rome - Cultural Atlas For Young People,"
Facts On File, New York and Oxford (An Equinox Book), 1989, ISBN
0-8160-1970-3;

--Jonathon Rutland, "A Roman Town - See Inside," Warwick Press, New
York, 1986, ISBN 0-531-19014-5;

--Kathryn Hinds,"The Ancient Romans -Cultures Of The Past," Benchmark
Books, New York, 1997, ISBN 0-7614-000-7 (lib. blg.);

--H,H, Scullard, "Roman Britain - Outpost OF The Empire," Thames and
Hudson Ltd., London, 1979, Library Of Congress Card No. 78-63042;

--Merle Severy (Chief),"Greece and Rome - Builders Of Our
World,"Natuonal Geographic Society, 1968;

--Marcel Dunan (Gen. Ed.),"Larousse Encyclopedia Of Ancient and Medieval
History," Harper and Row, New York, 1963, Library Of Congress Catalog
Card Number 63-12711.

Some of these books are children's books, but the drawings and photos
are vivid and informative. At any rate, these items are forwarded for
your consideration as perhaps having some small value in the pursuit of
your excellent idea.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens


Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"

Ave Fr. Apulus Caesar.
Gratias tibi ago, noble consul, for your gracious words of welcome; and I
agree with you that I was either fortunate or perspicacious, or both, in
my selection of materfamilias.
Vale in luce deorum.
Salvia Sempronia Graccha
Cislunia melior, translunia celerior.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Salvete

Herewith my corrected oath of office:

ENGLISH:

I, Lucius Cornelius Cicero (Michael Campbell Coetzee), do hereby
solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in
the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma I, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, swear
to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtures in my public and private life.

I, Lucius Cornelius Cicero , swear to uphold and defend the
Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of quaestor to the
best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of quaestor and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


LINGUA LATINA:


Ego, Lucius Cornelius Cicero (Michael Campbell Coetzee), hac re ipsa
decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae
Romae acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, officio quaestoris Novae Romae
accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus
culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me
persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam
defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum
esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Lucius Cornelius Cicero, officiis muneris quaestoris me quam
optime functurum esse praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani,
et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus quaestoris una cum iuribus,
privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.


Bene Valete,

Lucius Cornelius Cicero
Interpreter
Quaestor