Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jan 17-22, 2005

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32598 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32599 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32600 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32601 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32602 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32603 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: off list
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32604 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: off list
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32605 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32606 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32607 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32608 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Interactive Calendar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32609 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32610 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32611 From: Maxima Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: The website (and a proposition to the webmaster).
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32612 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32614 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: [newroman] Candidacy for the position of Editor Commentariorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32615 From: Ancie Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32616 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Edictum Praetoricium III - Designation of Scribes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32617 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32618 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32619 From: ancuta loredana Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32620 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32621 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32622 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32623 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32624 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32625 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32626 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: [newroman] Candidacy for the position of Editor Commentariorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32627 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32628 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32629 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32630 From: Fr. Apulus Caesar Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA IS CALLED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32631 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32632 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32633 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32634 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32635 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Emergency: One French Translator needed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32636 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32637 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32638 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32639 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32640 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32642 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Candidacy for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32643 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32644 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Check in
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32645 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32646 From: Lucius Apollonius Clement Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Emergency: One French Translator needed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32647 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32648 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32649 From: titus sempronius marcellus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Bellona
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32650 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: 1/3000 taxes per caput of the following persons ...pls... :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32651 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Candidacy For Edtor Commentariorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32652 From: Marcus Minucius Audens Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: My Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32653 From: Marcus Minucius Audens Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: My Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32654 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Edictum Aedilicium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32655 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Bellona
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32656 From: ancuta loredana Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Minerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32657 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32658 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32659 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32660 From: Craig Jacobs Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32661 From: JEAN COLLINS Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32662 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32663 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32664 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: sorry test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32666 From: C. Fabia Livia Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32667 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Minerva -->ATTN: Long answer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32668 From: J Auger Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Bellona
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32669 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32670 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: PLEASE OBSERVE: Edictum Censoris CFQ XXVII about the emancipation o
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32671 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32672 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Minerva -->ATTN: Long answer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32673 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32674 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32675 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32676 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32677 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32678 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32679 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32680 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32681 From: Quintus Servilius Fidenas Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32682 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32683 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32684 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32685 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32686 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32687 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32688 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32689 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32690 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32691 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32692 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32693 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32694 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32695 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32696 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32697 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32698 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Cista Now Open
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32699 From: t_octavius_salvius Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32700 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32701 From: shiarraeltradaik Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32702 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32703 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Problem with the Cista
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32704 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32705 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Paterfamilias Ullerius scripsit
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32706 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32707 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Cista now functional
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32708 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32709 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32710 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32711 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32712 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32713 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32714 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32715 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32716 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32717 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32718 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32719 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32720 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32721 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32722 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32723 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32724 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32725 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32726 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32727 From: Samantha Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32728 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32729 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32730 From: Quintus Servilius Fidenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32731 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32732 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32733 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation what a mistake!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32734 From: hucke@cynico.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Failure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32736 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32737 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32738 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32739 From: Lucius Apollonius Clement Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32740 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: New Religio Priesthoods
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32741 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32742 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32743 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32744 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32745 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32746 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32747 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Ave!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32748 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Nova Roma Newsletter Article Pool
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32749 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Fwd: Gens/Familia/Emancipation Stuff: Links to Current Legislation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32750 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32751 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32752 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32753 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32754 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32755 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32756 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32757 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32758 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32759 From: Jack the Ripper Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Rif: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Newsletter Article Pool
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32760 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: FYI:APA meeting in 2006 we solicit papers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32762 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32764 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Resignation (Cross Posted)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32765 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32766 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32767 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32768 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Edictum Censoris CFQ XXVII (Emancipation): French Translation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32769 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: My MSN/ICQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32770 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Salve!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32771 From: mlcinnyc Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32772 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32773 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Back In Business!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32774 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32775 From: Fr. Apulus Caesar Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: I - EDICTVM CONSVLARE FAC DE NOMINATIONIBVS ACCENSIBVS CONSOLARIBVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32776 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Fwd: [Nova-Roma] Re: Emancipation (Clarification Requested from M
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32777 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: ERRATA CORRIGE - Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32778 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32779 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Cista now functional



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32598 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Well, I certainly volunteer to continue posting the calendar. I'm
having fun with it, and unless the pontiffs do not find me suitable
to continue, I will.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Done.
>
> In a message dated 1/17/2005 1:29:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> rory12001@y... writes:
>
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Quiritibus spd;
>
> All right, I'm putting out a formal call to the pontifices to take
> charge of the Calendar please! The Res Publica is dependent on
this
> calendar, our official business and religious feriae depend upon
> this. Please either do it yourself or delegate this important task
to
> someone.
> Please Athanasius or L. Equitius Cincinnatus forward this to the
> pontiffs list and take care of religious business.
> bene valete
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> Propraetrix Hiberniae
> caput Officina Iuriis
> et Investigatio CFQ
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32599 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Must be a Vietnam expert I take it? Particularly in the area of Marines? Would that be about right Marinus?


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32600 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Salve Marinus

Not to argue but you said "though most commanded larger forces and enjoyed greater victories than Scipio."

While I do not dispute the first part about the larger forces I must disagree with the later statement about "greater victories". The victories won by any commander must be seen in the time frame in which they lived.

Scipio did nothing less than serve as another Roman Cincinnatus and pave the way for the establishment of the Empire of Rome. Not I would think as small thing.

Vale

Tiberius



----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<mailto:gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Scipio


Salve Corneliane,

"Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...<mailto:julius_cornelianus@...>> writes:

> You could dig even deeper and find people of equal greatness
> as any Grant or Lee who have much available on them but are simply not big.
> John Mosby was an excellent confederate colonel who led the Ranger's.
> Nathan Bedford Forest was a great guerilla with the forces he led (though
> his later history is less respectable).

Undoubtedly. Not only is there the host of fine commanders out of the
American Civil War that you allude to above, but if we turn to my own
particular area of military expertise there are great commanders and
visionaries such as Archibald Henderson, Jacob Zelin, John A. LeJeune,
Smedley D. Butler, Lewis B. Puller, Archer A. Vandegriff, Victor Krulak,
Evans Carlson, H. M. Smith, Earl Ellis, and Al Gray. Most people reading
this will have no idea who these men were/are, though most commanded larger
forces and enjoyed greater victories than Scipio.

Vale,

-- Marinus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32601 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
"Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...> writes:

> Must be a Vietnam expert I take it?

Not especially.

> Particularly in the area of Marines?

Yes. All the names I listed were/are US Marines. The earliest one I named
commanded the expedition against the Seminole Indians in Florida back in the
early 19th century. The most recent is a retired Commandant who was credited
with developing the warfighting methods that enjoyed such textbook perfect
success in the first Gulf war. If you want the complete list send me a note
off-list and I'll detail their accomplishments for you.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32602 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
M. Arminia Maior G. Equitio Cato spd;
continue Cato I'm certainly more than happy to see the calendar
posting on the ML every day, but I was speaking about the interactive
calendar at the Nova Roma website.
The magistrates absolutely need the entire month done to be
able to plan things ahead, like elections, edicts,etc..I wouldn't
like to post some new idea or plan on a Dies Ater! The Pontifex
Maximus posted the moveable festivals so I fowarded that to the
Tribunes's list so they can take it into account.
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
>
> OSD G. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Well, I certainly volunteer to continue posting the calendar. I'm
> having fun with it, and unless the pontiffs do not find me suitable
> to continue, I will.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
> >
> > Done.
> >
> > In a message dated 1/17/2005 1:29:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > rory12001@y... writes:
> >
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Quiritibus spd;
> >
> > All right, I'm putting out a formal call to the pontifices to
take
> > charge of the Calendar please! The Res Publica is dependent on
> this
> > calendar, our official business and religious feriae depend
upon
> > this. Please either do it yourself or delegate this important
task
> to
> > someone.
> > Please Athanasius or L. Equitius Cincinnatus forward this to the
> > pontiffs list and take care of religious business.
> > bene valete
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> > Propraetrix Hiberniae
> > caput Officina Iuriis
> > et Investigatio CFQ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32603 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: off list
Shall I assume your more an expert in modern warfare? I lean towards spec-ops community and small tactical units like the LRRP/LRP units of Nam. Green Beret's like the Mobile Guerilla Force (working with Cambodians)is also very interesting. We neglect them far too often as a tool.

I should say you should read "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" by Lt Col. David Grossman. I know he gives lectures to the Law Enforcement community. It's on the psychological effects of killing. It goes through the different choices one can make of "fight", "flight", and I think there is one more. But basically the premise is if you and me were enemies in war (lets say never having killed before as soldiers) if I'm a blip in the distance or on a screen its easy for you to pull the trigger or push a button and watch the blip disappear than if we were 3 feet from each other and had to take the enemy out. You and me are neither blips but full grown living breathing human beings. Not blips. Its easier to make a blip go away than a human life.

In relation to Rome, its interesting how society has changed and in someways it gives you something to reflect on how much it has changed. I find it interesting to think on this book when looking at war today compared to Roman times. Now onto your interests...list away.

Cornelianus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32604 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: off list
Dang it....I hate e-mail sometimes!!!!

Cornelianus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32605 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Ave Tiberius,

This is why I have a much greater appreciation for classical warfare. While I take nothing away from modern warriors (who have much to live with after any war) I think from a commanders stand point it takes more skill to maneuver a massive body of men armed with swords and shields and best your opponent than to shoot a gun or missile and kill from afar. This is coming from someone who has not served so any veterans please don't sharpen the daggers. Plus I feel there is something to ancient warfare that I think is missing. The most recent accounts I ever read that really aroused my attention were WWII armour battles of the Panzers.

Corneluianus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32606 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Salve Tiberi Galeri,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus writes:

> Salve Marinus
>
> Not to argue but you said "though most commanded larger forces and enjoyed
> greater victories than Scipio."

I chose my wording carefully.

> While I do not dispute the first part about the larger forces I must
> disagree with the later statement about "greater victories". The victories
> won by any commander must be seen in the time frame in which they lived.

At the level of grand strategy I'll agree, and I'll say a few things about the
grand strategic value of the victories won by the commanders I named in just a
minute. But in general when you estimate the 'greatness' of a battle you do
so in the operational context of the conflict in which it takes place.

> Scipio did nothing less than serve as another Roman Cincinnatus and pave
> the way for the establishment of the Empire of Rome. Not I would think as
> small thing.

Of course it's not a small thing. But now consider the commanders I named and
what they accomplished. Henderson defeated the Seminoles, securing Georgia
and Florida for further development. Vandegriff won Guadalcanal, and turned
the tide of the war in the Pacific. LeJeune invented modern amphibious
warfare and in doing so provided the means for victory in North Africa,
Italy, Normandy, and the entire Pacific theatre. Ellis was the visionary who
wrote Advanced Base Force Operations in Micronesia, which became War Plan
Orange. Carlson and Krulak laid the foundations, via the Raiders, of modern
Special Operations.

Imagine, if you will, how the absence of any of these would have altered
history. Sure, perhaps some other would have stepped forward and
accomplished the same thing, and perhaps if there'd been no Scipio some
Aemilius or Iulius or Aurelius would have stepped forward and accomplished
the defeat of Carthage. In terms of overall strategic success Scipio's is on
a par with Bonaparte, or McArthur, or Eisenhower; but in the scale of
operational success battles like Ilpa and Zama have to take their place
beside Guadalcanal and Tarawa.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32607 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Salve Q.Cassius Calvus -

The first one is the one that is a problem - it's blank, with no day
status or festivals entered.

Vale
- Troianus
On Jan 17, 2005, at 1:16 PM, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:

> Which one? There is a calendar on this page
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cview
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32608 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Interactive Calendar
Salve Troiane, et salvete omnes,

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...> writes:

>
> Salve Q.Cassius Calvus -
>
> The first one is the one that is a problem - it's blank, with no day
> status or festivals entered.
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
> On Jan 17, 2005, at 1:16 PM, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
>
> > Which one? There is a calendar on this page
> > http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cview

By using the arrows up at the top it's possible to go back to January of the
previous year. I'd recommend that magistrates who need to plan for a month
use this feature, since with the exception of the moveable festivals the days
had the same religious status from one year to the next. It's klunky, but it
works.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32609 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
In a message dated 1/17/05 9:11:29 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
richmal@... writes:

There already is a place in the Tabularium for Decreta of the
Collegium.
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/index.html I knew
about the Decretum Collegii Pontificum et Augurum De Iure Auspicandi
et Tripudio http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2003-12-07-
i.htm but chose to inform Publius Minius Albucius about it via
private email rather than make a public spectacle.




Salvete

And if someone would actually read these things they would realize there are
no auspices taken to convine the assembly of the Plebs. To do so IMO would
insult the Gods.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32610 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Scipio
Salve Marinus

I agree

BTW my dad was 1st battalion ,5th Marine regiment, 1st Marine division, re-enforced

at New Britain , Cape Gloucester, Peleliu , Okinawa ect

USMC from November 1940-November 1945 came out a Gunnery Sergeant


Vale

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<mailto:gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Scipio


Salve Tiberi Galeri,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus writes:

> Salve Marinus
>
> Not to argue but you said "though most commanded larger forces and enjoyed
> greater victories than Scipio."

I chose my wording carefully.

> While I do not dispute the first part about the larger forces I must
> disagree with the later statement about "greater victories". The victories
> won by any commander must be seen in the time frame in which they lived.

At the level of grand strategy I'll agree, and I'll say a few things about the
grand strategic value of the victories won by the commanders I named in just a
minute. But in general when you estimate the 'greatness' of a battle you do
so in the operational context of the conflict in which it takes place.

> Scipio did nothing less than serve as another Roman Cincinnatus and pave
> the way for the establishment of the Empire of Rome. Not I would think as
> small thing.

Of course it's not a small thing. But now consider the commanders I named and
what they accomplished. Henderson defeated the Seminoles, securing Georgia
and Florida for further development. Vandegriff won Guadalcanal, and turned
the tide of the war in the Pacific. LeJeune invented modern amphibious
warfare and in doing so provided the means for victory in North Africa,
Italy, Normandy, and the entire Pacific theatre. Ellis was the visionary who
wrote Advanced Base Force Operations in Micronesia, which became War Plan
Orange. Carlson and Krulak laid the foundations, via the Raiders, of modern
Special Operations.

Imagine, if you will, how the absence of any of these would have altered
history. Sure, perhaps some other would have stepped forward and
accomplished the same thing, and perhaps if there'd been no Scipio some
Aemilius or Iulius or Aurelius would have stepped forward and accomplished
the defeat of Carthage. In terms of overall strategic success Scipio's is on
a par with Bonaparte, or McArthur, or Eisenhower; but in the scale of
operational success battles like Ilpa and Zama have to take their place
beside Guadalcanal and Tarawa.

Vale,

-- Marinus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32611 From: Maxima Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: The website (and a proposition to the webmaster).
Kudos to an excellent suggestion! I hope it is implemented soon!

Maxima Valeria Messallina


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Apollonius Clement
<lucius.apollonius@y...> wrote:

> I would like to suggest that a second website is put online in order
to act as the evolving one, while the official website only receives
updates when the webmaster is happy with the changes made on the
second website.

In the present example for instance, visitors would still see the old
website on novaroma.org, while the webmaster would change pages on
(let's say) geocities.com/novaroma/ and collect feedback to change
them again. In a few days, the webmaster would refine his changes
according to the feeback he had, and only when he is happy whith it
and considers it finished and stable, he could simply update the
official website with the second one.

It is just a matter of keeping the novaroma.org untouched while
experiencing unstable changes. Beta-testing, releases and the whole lot
I hope this help and I would like to thank the webmaster for all the
work and effort done on this website. It is not perfect but it is
thanks to people putting themselves forward and giving time and
dedication to their work within our community that we will make it
better.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32612 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-17
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Q. Fabio Maximo spd;

Salve, one of the positive benefits of this discussion is that the
tribunes are all engaged in tasks to make sure we're all cognizant of
these laws ie; by cross-indexing and organizing the religious
decrees, discussing vetoes with a pontiff, downloading Cordus's
explanation of the different dies, the PM's list of moveable
feriae.
Now could you please or one of the other pontiffs update the
interactive calendar as soon as possible so we could all observe it
properly when planning our tasks?
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ

>
>
> Salvete
>
> And if someone would actually read these things they would realize
there are
> no auspices taken to convine the assembly of the Plebs. To do so
IMO would
> insult the Gods.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32614 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: [newroman] Candidacy for the position of Editor Commentariorum
Salve Senator Audens -

While I do not presume to speak for Cincinnatus Augur, as one who can
contain myself I shall try to explain as well as I can.

He is not concerned about your lack of interest in the Religio - your
disinterest is, of course, your right.
What seems to concern him - based on his replies - is that you used
this disinterest to issue a Ban on Religio articles. It is this Ban
that was of concern to him: Banning Religio articles was seen as
undermining the position of the Religio.

It is illegal for a Magistrate to undermine the position of the
Religio. The Editor of Aquila is a Magistrate position. The Aquila is
the official news outlet of Nova Roma. The Religio is the official
religion of Nova Roma, and as such cannot be banned from the pages of
Aquila as that is seen to be undermining the position of the Religio.

So it is not your disinterest that is a cause for concern, but the Ban
on Religio articles. Based on one of your earlier explanations, it was
believed that the Ban was due to your disinterest in the Religio, but
it was the Ban and not the disinterest that was deemed to be improper.

That Ban has been successfully resolved: There is no Ban anymore.
As for why more of the Pontifices have not spoken up about this
resolution, the answer is simple: They do not speak with one voice. A
couple helped with the resolution, a couple have been critical, and the
others have reserved their opinions for the time being, no doubt for
various good reasons.

This is, of course, just my interpretation of the various replies made:
I cannot presume to speak for another. To find out precisely what he
meant you would have to ask him.

Vale
- S E M Troianus
On Jan 16, 2005, at 10:25 PM, MarcusAudens@... wrote:

>
> Citizens Of Nova Roma;
>
> I again come before you in the white toga of a Candidate for the
> position of Editor Commentariorum --"Aquila"
>
> The four publications that I mentioned before to you are now completed
> and only await some final editing before I send the material to the
> Printers.
>
> I have some further good news in that with the help of Master Tiberius,
> a former "Eagle" Editor, there may well be a way to forward the
> literary
> efforts of Nova Roma to another level, and in a more specific way.
> The
> final decision must wait until I can get some firm data on cost and
> availability, but the opportunity looks very good and MasterTiberius
> was
> good enough to bring it to my attention. As soon as I get the final
> infomation I shall be pleased to get it to you, together with an
> explanation of the possible new idea.
>
> I am, however, at this point, rather confused on a subject which was
> earlier very forcibly brought to my attention, by a long time member of
> Nova Roma in a very agressive way. I have made no secret of the fact
> that I do not believe in the Roman Religio. I understand that Nova
> Roma
> is a refuge for those beliefs, but I do not wish to partake of it. I
> indicated that I had little interest in the Religio, which is true,
> just
> as I have little interest in Roman pottery, the history of Roman Poets,
> and the widespread religion of Isis. I have been truthfu forthcomingl
> and straightforward about this lack of interest but Senator Cincinnatus
> continues to bring it up as though there were something wrong with my
> not being interested in a religion that I dont believe in. So I am
> somewhat confused. My recent adventure on the Main Lst has resulted in
> a outburst of such consequence and insult that I hesitate again to
> involve myself in an individual message or a dialy digest on the NR
> Main
> List. However, I am still curious as to what requirement the good
> Senator is talking about.
>
> I will not talk with him again since he has chosen to upbraid me in
> public, to the extreme for having well defined personal concerns, but
> perhaps someone who is able to contain himself and who is aware of what
> Senator Cincinnatus is talking about, would be pleased to explain to me
> my great trespss in not includig the Roman Religo on my list of
> interests. If it will help, I am can say that I am interested in
> Mithracism, and I am interested in Druidism both as interesting
> historical images, but the Roman Religio is of little interest to me
> simply because---------well, it is not, to me interesting. I fail to
> see the problem in that. I am also interested in ancient Christianity
> in early Rome, which I am given to understad was practiced within the
> Roman Culture during this period as was a variety of other sects and
> cults, if that will help any in answering my question.
>
> However, in this Candidacy, as I have indicated, I have taken care of
> that problem, and there is as I have indicated previously an Asst.
> Editor for Religion attached to the "Aquila" Staff to evaluate any
> religous topics that are forwarded to me. My efforts in this concer,
> however, have recieved no recognition from those Pontiffs whom I had
> supposed would be pleased at the appointment of such. I have recieved
> the appreciation of Pontiff Athanasios, and the appreciation of the
> Pontifex Maximus, but not the even moderationof the thers. Can it
> possibly be that the Religio Romao is not unamimous in the Pontiffs
> views?? That is hard to beieve considering how devoted thay have all
> indicated that they are. Hence my confusion. I suppose that
> eventually
> someone may well be pleased to helpme out in this question.
>
> My thanks for your very kind attention to this message, and I invite
> your kind consideration of this Candidacy for which I stand.
>
> Very Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
> Candidate for
> Editor Commetariorum -- "Aquila"
>
> Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
> dicipline.
>
> Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32615 From: Ancie Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: (no subject)
Hi!



I am Wim. I am living in the Netherlands. I am really enjoyed that I can join your club!



Thanks J



With kind regards,







W. van Stormbroek


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32616 From: Marcus Iulius Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Edictum Praetoricium III - Designation of Scribes
M IVL PERVSIANVS PR QVIRITIBVS SPD

avete omnes,

EDICTUM PRAETORICIUM III - Designation of Scribes

1. In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Iulius Perusianus, Praetor, appoint the following citizens as Scribae, with the duty to aid in the moderation of the main list of Nova Roma and to assist with legal research and other duties as needed:

Flavia Valeria Tullia Scholastica
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Cornelianus
Publius Constantinus Placidus

2. Quaestor Gaius Geminus Germanus is entrusted with the same powers in the moderation of the main list of Nova Roma.

DATVM·AD·XV·KAL·FEB·ANN·MMDCCLVIII·AVC
FR·APULE·CAESARI·C·POPILIO·LAENAE·CONSVLIBVS

M·IVL·PERVSIANVS
Praetor MMDCCLVIII AVC

18 January 2005


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32617 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
A. Apollónius Cordus M arminiae Májórí amícae
omnibusque sal.

> The magistrates absolutely need the entire
> month done to be
> able to plan things ahead, like elections,
> edicts,etc..I wouldn't
> like to post some new idea or plan on a Dies Ater!

In the absence of any official announcement from the
pontificés, I have a working model of the calendar for
this year based on all the historical information I've
been able to find; anyone who wants it is welcome to
contact me for a copy (I have also sent it to the
pontificés in case they find it of any help, but I
imagine they are already aware of all the sources I've
used).

As Equitius Marínus says, almost all the diés are the
same every year, so I'm pretty confident that my
working model will turn out to be pretty similar to
whatever the pontificés eventually decree.

Diés atrí, by the way, occur on the day after the
Kalendae, the day after the Nónae, and the day after
the Ídús every month.





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32618 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re:
Dag Wim,

Welkom bij Nova Roma!

Groetjes,

Diana



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32619 From: ancuta loredana Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
I'd like to have a copy of your calendar.If you can sent it to me i'd be grateful


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32620 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Request for auspices before next CT Plebis session
Cordus Albució sal.

Here are my suggestions, interspersed among the
original text, with comments where necessary.

> AEDILES of the PLEBS LAW (Lex Minia de Aedilibus
> Plebis)

Minian statute on the aediles of the plebs (lex Minia
de aedilibus plebis)

> The Tributes Comices of the Plebs having adopted by
> XX votes against
> YY and WW abstentions the following text.

The concilium plebis, has adopted by XX votes against
YY with WW abstentions the following text.

OR

The comitia plebis tributa have adopted by XX votes
against YY with WW abstentions the following text.

(Comment: I think 'comices tributes' is a French
translation of 'comitia tribúta' - if it is Latin, I
can't it in any dictionary; I can only find it on
French websites.)

> Tribune X. XX XXX, as presiding magistrate,
> promulgates the law in
> its following terms :

Tribune X. XX XXX, as presiding magistrate,
promulgates the statute in the following terms:

> On sight of article IV.A.5 of the Constitution of
> Nova Roma which
> creates ordinary magistrates designed as " Aediles
> of the Plebs " ;

Pursuant to article IV.A.5 of the Constitution of Nova
Roma which creates ordinary magistrates designated as
"Aediles of the Plebs";

> On sight of Continuity of the magistracy of the
> Plebs Grylla law of
> November, 14 2752 ;

In view of the Gryllan statute on the securing of
magistrates of the plebs (lex Grylla de securandis
magistratus plebis) of November 14, 2752;

> On sight of Functions of Aediles of the Plebs
> Arminia law of June 2,
> 2004 ;

In view of the Arminian statute on the duties of
aediles of the plebs (lex Arminia de officiis aedilium
plebis) of June 2, 2757;

> On sight of cursus honorum Arminia law of June 2,
> 2004 ;

In view of the Arminian statute on the cursus honorum
(lex Arminia de cursu honorum) of June 2, 2757;

> On sight of Centuriata Fabia law of December 2, 2003
> ;

In view of the Fabian centuriate statute (lex Fabia
centuriata) of December 2, 2756;

> On sight of Management and moderation of public
> forums ;

In view of the management and moderation of public
forums;

> On sight of the necessity to precise the functions
> of these Aediles
> in order to implement at best the constitutional
> rules which are
> related to them ;

In view of the need to define the functions of these
aediles in order best to implement the constitutional
rules which concern them;

> On sight of the necessity to strengthen the
> coherence of the
> institutions of the Plebs ;

In view of the need to strengthen the coherence of the
institutions of the plebs;

> Whereas a law is not allowed to restrict the
> dispositions laid down
> by the Constitution of Nova Roma ;

Whereas a statute may not restrict the dispositions
laid down by the Constitution of Nova Roma;

> Disposes :

It is disposed:

> Article 1 :
>
> Functions of Aediles of the Plebs Arminia law of
> June 2, 2004 is
> abrogated and replaced by
> the present law.

Article 1:

The Arminian statute on the duties of the aediles of
the plebs (lex Arminia de officiis aedilium plebis) of
June 2, 2757 is abrogated and replaced by the present
statute.

> Cursus honorum Arminia law of June 2, 2004 is
> abrogated and replaced
> par the present law.

The Arminina statute on the cursus honorum (lex
Arminia de cursu honorum) of June 2, 2757 is abrogated
and replaced by the present statute.

> Article 2 :
>
> The citizens belonging to the Plebs order, and thus
> called "
> Plebeians ", are the only ones authorized to apply
> for to a
> magistracy of the Plebs, specially for the two
> magistracies defined
> by the Constitution of Nova Roma, Tribunate and
> Aedility.

Article 2:

The citizens belonging to the order of the plebs, and
thus called "the plebeians", are the only ones
authorized to stand for a magistracy of the plebs,
specifically for the two magistrates defined by the
Constitution of Nova Roma, the tribunate of the plebs
and the aedility of the plebs.

> Article 3 :
>
> The only Plebeians authorized to apply for Aedility
> are those who
> are able to prove that they have at least one year's
> service as
> Tribune of the Plebs, Quaestor, Curator, Provincial
> governor or
> Assistant (scribe) Aedile of the Plebs. Concerning
> this last
> function, the scribe must be an in office on the
> date of the
> convening of the Comices asked for the election of
> one or both
> Aediles of the Plebs.
> For the present law, " Aedility " means either the
> function occupied
> by on or several Aediles, or the institution as a
> whole, whatever
> the number of the Aediles in office at a certain
> time.
> For the present law, the word " Law " designs all
> kinds of legal
> binding rules, from the Constitution and the laws to
> edicts or other
> types of regulations.

Article 3:

The only plebeians authorized to stand for the
aedility of the plebs are those who are able to prove
that they have served for at least one year as tribune
of the plebs, quaestor, curator, provincial governor,
or assistant (scribe) to an aedile of the plebs. In
the last case, the scribe must be serving at the date
when the comitia are convened for the election of one
or both aediles of the plebs.

In the present statute, "aedility of the plebs" means
either the office held by one or more aediles of the
plebs, or the institution as a whole, whatever the
number of aediles of the plebs in office at a certain
time.

In the present statute, the word "law" signifies all
kinds of legally binding rules, from the Constitution
and the laws to edicts and regulations of other kinds.

(Comment: if you want to use "law" with the meaning
you explain here, then you cannot also use it to mean
"lex"; so I have corrected "law" in the sense of "lex"
to "statute" throughout.)

> Article 4 :
>
> According to Constitution, Aediles of the Plebs
> (beneath designed
> also as " Aediles ") are fully responsible of the
> following
> missions :

Article 4:

According to the Constitution, aediles of the plebs
(hereinafter called "aediles") are fully responsible
for the following tasks:

> - organization of public games and others festivals,
> events and
> gatherings ;
> - maintaining order during public religious events ;
> - management of every public property that the State
> of Nova Roma
> could
> acquire.
> - administration of Law.

- the organization of public games and other
festivals, events, and gatherings;
- the maintenance of order during public religious
events;
- the management of all public property that the state
of Nova Roma may acquire;
- the administration of law.

> By the present law, Aediles are also entrusted with
> the two
> following missions :

By the present statute, aediles are also entrusted
with the two following tasks:

> - management (also called in this special case "
> ownership ") of
> Tributes
> Comices public forums ;

- the management (also called in this special case
"ownership") of the public forums of the concilium
plebis;

OR

- the management (also called in this special case
"ownership") of the public forums of the comitia
plebis tributa;

> - preservation of the whole corpus of Law rules or
> Nova Roma, in
> force or
> obsolete, concerning the Plebs or edicted or
> promulgated by a
> magistrate of the
> Plebs.

- the preservation of the whole corpus of law of Nova
Roma, in force or obsolete, which concerns the plebs
or which is edicted or promulgated by magistrates of
the plebs.

> For these two missions, the Aediles are attentive to
> maintain a
> close collaboration with the Tribunes of the Plebs.

For these two tasks, the aediles are directed to
maintain a close collaboration with the tribunes of
the plebs.

> Article 5 :
>
> Aediles of the Plebs exercise their functions
> jointly. They divide
> up, as they see fit, the missions that they have to
> carry out, in
> the will to render the best public service to the
> citizens of Nova
> Roma.
> In case of prolonged vacancy of an Aedile office
> that elections
> regularly convened in the appropriate Comices did
> not succeed
> filling, the Aedile of the Plebs alone in office
> takes charge of the
> whole range of the missions that ordinarily fall
> under Law to both
> Aediles's lot.
> For the present law, the word " Aediles " must thus
> be understood as
> committing also the Aedile who is in office alone.

Article 5:

Aediles of the plebs shall exercise their functions
jointly. They may divide up, as they see fit, the
tasks that they have to carry out, so as to render the
best public service to the citizens of Nova Roma.

In case of prolonged vacancy of an aedilician office
which has not been filled by the regular elections in
the appropriate comitia, the aedile of the plebs who
is alone in office shall take charge of all the tasks
which are ordinarily entrusted by law to both aediles.

In the present statute, the word "aediles" must thus
be understood as applying also to an aedile who is in
office alone.

> Article 6 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for the
> organization of public games and others festivals,
> events and
> gatherings.

Article 6:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the organization of public games and
other festivals, events, and gatherings.

> Public games, whose organization is incumbent on the
> Aediles of the
> Plebs are Ceres games and Plebs games. Both events
> are acknowledged
> as official games of the Republic of Nova Roma and
> thus get the
> support of all the institutions of Nova Roma and the
> financial
> commitment of the State as far as needed.
> Aediles of the Plebs appoint and organize, as they
> see fit, the
> dates of the Games, their length and agenda.

The public games whose organization is incumbent on
the aediles of the plebs are the games of Ceres and
the Plebeian games. Both events are acknowledged as
official games of the republic of Nova Roma and shall
thus receive the support of all the institutions of
Nova Roma and the financial commitment of the state as
far as necessary.

Aediles of the plebs shall appoint and organize, as
they see fit, the dates of the games, their length,
and their agenda.

> Aediles manage the budget of the Games - if this one
> exists - make
> expenses and receipts according the proceedings
> defined by a senatus-
> consultum. The Treasure of Nova Roma will reimburse
> all expenses
> that could be made by the Aediles on their personal
> funds upon
> presentation of expenses proofs.

The aediles shall manage the budget of the games - if
there be one - and make expenditures and receipts
according to the rules defined by any relevant senatus
consultum. The treasury of Nova Roma will reimburse,
upon presentation of proofs of expenditure, all
expenses incurred by the aediles from their own
pockets.

> When the Treasure of Nova Roma is asked by the
> Aediles to
> participate to the organization, taking place,
> development or budget
> balance of the Games, the Aediles must establish a
> presentation file
> which contains :
> - an estimated budget for each event, which includes
> expenses and
> receipts
> provided for ;
> - a synthetic presentation note joined to this
> budget ;
> - every useful additional document.

When the treasury of Nova Roma is asked by the aediles
to participate in the organization, occurrence,
development, or budgeting of the games, the aediles
must create a presentation file which contains:
- an estimated budget for each event, including
expenses and receipts provided for;
- a summary presentation note accompanying this
budget;
- any useful additional documents.

> This file is sent to a Tribune of the Plebs who
> convenes
> immediately, specially if necessary, the Senate with
> a view to
> examine these documents. The Tribune must pass on
> this file, but is
> authorized to accompany it with her/his
> observations.

This file shall be sent to a tribune of the plebs, who
shall immediately convene the senate, specially if
necessary, to examine these documents. The tribunes
shall pass this file to the senate, and may add her /
his own comments.

> The Senate approves or rejects this file. A reject
> forbids the
> Aediles to organize the Games, unless they do it
> without Nova Roma
> funds. The approval of the file allows the
> organization of the Games
> and the incurring of the expense which will be
> charged to the
> Treasure of Nova Roma. The Senate modifies, if
> necessary, the
> general budget of Nova Roma in collaboration with
> Consular Quaestors.
> Aediles watch in these events over their correct
> development, their
> morality, dignity, and over the respect of Nova Roma
> values. They
> maintain order in these events.

The senate shall approve or reject this file. A
rejection forbids the aediles to organize the games,
unless they do it without funds from Nova Roma. An
approval allows the games to be organized at the
expense of the treasury of Nova Roma as set out in the
file. The senate shall modify, if necessary, the
general budget of Nova Roma in collaboration with the
consular quaestors.

(Comment: I am not sure whether by "these events" in
the next sentence you mean the games or the procedures
concerning the budget. Below are two alternative
versions, depending on the meaning.)

The aediles shall supervise these events with an eye
to their correct development, their morality, their
dignity, and their respect for the values of Nova
Roma. They shall maintain order at these events.

OR

The aediles shall supervise this process with an eye
to correct procedure, morality, dignity, and respect
for the values of Nova Roma. They shall maintain order
during this process.

> In case of default or prolonged vacancy of both
> Aediles, the
> Tribunes of the Plebs
> act in concert with the Consuls so that the Games
> can take place. In
> this case, the Curule Aediles may be asked to be
> responsible of the
> Games. Their agreement is then necessary.

In case of default or prolonged vacancy of both
aediles, the tribunes of the plebs shall act in
concert with the consuls to ensure that the games take
place. In this case, the curule aediles may be invited
to take responsibility for the games, but may not be
compelled to do so.

> Article 7 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for
> maintaining order during public religious events.
> They thus watch in
> these events over their correct development, their
> morality,
> dignity, and over the respect of Nova Roma values.

Article 7:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the maintenance of order during public
religious events. They shall thus supervise these
events with an eye to their correct development, their
morality, their dignity, and their respect for the
values of Nova Roma.

> Aediles exercise this mission in collaboration with
> the sacerdotal
> colleges and their delegates.

The aediles shall perform this task in collaboration
with the priestly colleges and their delegates.

> This mission exercises in the limits of the laws and
> edicts of Nova
> Roma and in the limits of laws and regulations to
> which It is
> submitted.

This task is to be performed within the limits set
down by the law of Nova Roma.

> Article 8 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for the
> management of every public property that the State
> of Nova Roma
> could acquire.

Article 8:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the management of any public property
that the state of Nova Roma may acquire.

> For the present law, the word " property " means
> every personal or
> real estate in the sense of Nova Roma laws and
> regulations or, for
> lack of them, in the sense of the macronational Law
> of the place
> where this property has been duly registered.

In the present statute, the word "property" means any
personal property or real estate as defined by the law
of Nova Roma or, in the absence of any relevant law of
Nova Roma, as defined by the macronational law of the
place where the property is duly registered.

> For the present law, the word " public " designs
> every property, as
> defined above, acquired by Nova Roma according Its
> laws and
> regulations, whatever its use.

In the present statute, the word "public" signifies
any property, as defined above, acquired by Nova Roma
according to its law, whatever its use.

> Every public property trusted to the Aediles is
> considered having
> been acquired according the macronational laws and
> regulations of
> the country where the property is located, or on the
> territory of
> which the acquirement contract of this property by
> Nova Roma has
> been located.

All public property entrusted to the aediles is
considered to have been acquired according to the
macronational law of the country where the property is
located or where the contract took place by which Nova
Roma acquired the property.

> The Aedile who ever suspects that such an
> acquirement of a public
> property trusted to him is not regular, in the
> meaning of the
> previous paragraph, may besides issue a note in
> which he officially
> exempt her/himself from responsibility, considering
> the elements
> come to her/his knowledge.

Any aedile who suspects that any public property
entrusted to him has been acquired irregularly, as set
out in the paragraph above, may issue a note in which
she / he officially exempts herself / himself from
responsibility, considering the facts which have come
to her / his knowledge.

(Comment: I'm not sure what you mean by this, so my
suggestion is a bit vague - if you could explain what
you mean, I can make it a bit clearer.)

> Aediles present every year to the Senate a report on
> the management
> of the public properties trusted to them. This
> report is sent,
> before it is presented to the Senate, to the
> Tribunes of the Plebs
> and to the Consuls which are allowed to join to it
> their own
> observations. These observations are communicated to
> the Senate with
> this report, and at the same time. The convening of
> the Senate is,
> for this purpose, made by the Tribunes of the Plebs.

The aediles shall present every year to the senate a
report on the management of the public property
entrusted to them. This report, before it is presented
to the senate, shall be sent to the tribunes of the
plebs and to the consuls, who may add their own
comments. These comments shall be communicated to the
senate together with the report. The tribunes of the
plebs shall convene the senate for this purpose.

> The Senate ratifies or rejects this report. A reject
> involves the
> responsibility of the Aediles concerned, in the
> limits of the laws
> and regulations of Nova Roma and, possibly, in the
> limits of
> macronational laws and regulations to which It is
> submitted.

(Comment: again, I don't understand what this means.
Could you explain?)

> Exceptionally, et even if the term of Aediles yearly
> mandate has
> been reached, their office is extended in time until
> their modified
> report could be approved by the Senate. This
> extension of time just
> concerns the sole modification of the report and
> does not prevent
> the newly elected Aediles to enter in office and
> take up their
> duties.

Exceptionally, even if the term of the aediles' annual
mandate has been reached, their term may be extended
until their modified report has been approved by the
senate. This extension is solely to allow the aediles
to modify the report, and shall not prevent the newly
elected aediles from entering office and taking up
their duties.

> Article 9 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for
> administering laws.
> This responsibility exercises itself concurrently
> with the
> responsibility of other magistrates concerned by
> this mission.

Article 9:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the administration of law.

This responsibility is held concurrently with the
responsibility of other magistrates who have the same
responsibility.

> Article 10 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for the
> management (also called in this special case "
> ownership ") of
> Tributes Comices public forums.

Article 10:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the management (also called in this
special case "ownership") of the public forums of the
concilium plebis.

OR

Article 10:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the management (also called in this
special case "ownership") of the public forums of the
comitia plebis tributa.

> They watch in these forums, over good behavior,
> dignity, and respect
> of civil rights and Nova Roma values.

They shall supervise these forums with an eye to good
behaviour, dignity, and respect for civil rights and
for the values of Nova Roma.

> They comply with any request of a Tribune of the
> Plebs concerning
> the insertion of a communication or the execution of
> a managing or
> moderation task.

They shall comply with any request by a tribune of the
plebs to issue a communication or to do anything
concerning the management or moderation of the forum.

> Tributes Comices secretariat is in the hands of
> Tribunate of the
> Plebs.

(Comment: what do you mean by 'secretariat'?)

> Article 11 :
>
> According to article two above, Aediles are
> responsible for the
> preservation of the whole corpus of Law rules or
> Nova Roma, in force
> or obsolete, concerning the Plebs or edicted or
> promulgated by a
> magistrate of the Plebs.

Article 11:

According to article 4 above, the aediles are
responsible for the preservation of the whole corpus
of the law of Nova Roma, in force or obsolete, which
concerns the plebs or which is edicted or promulgated
by magistrates of the plebs.

> This provision concerns obsolete as in force rules
> and does not
> distinguish the way these rules are compiled
> (individually, by type
> of rules, in a codex, etc.).

This provision concerns obsolete law as well as
current law and does not limit the way in which the
law is compiled (whether individually, by type, in a
codex, &c.)

> This mission exercises in close collaboration with
> the Tribunes of
> the Plebs.

This task is to be performed in close collaboration
with the tribunes of the plebs.

> The Aediles comply, in these bounds, with every
> possible instruction
> of Tribunes of the Plebs as well as with every
> request from them for
> the insertion of any forgotten or new document,
> support or rule. The
> Aediles communicate to the Tribunes of the Plebs, on
> their request,
> all informations existing inside the managed
> collections.

The aediles shall comply, within these limits, with
every instruction by a tirbune of the plebs as well as
with every request by a tribune of the plebs for a new
or forgotten document to be inserted. The aediles
shall communicate to the tribunes of the plebs, on
request, all information contained within the
collections which they manage.

> Added to the necessity of a conservation of the
> Plebeian Law corpus,
> the Aediles must have, in their mission, the will to
> render to the
> citizens of Nova Roma the best public service
> through the access to
> the managed collections.

In addition to the task of conserving the corpus of
plebeian law, the aediles shall take care to provide
the citizens of Nova Roma with the best possible
public service by means of access to the collections
which they manage.

> After agreement of all Tribunes of the Plebs, the
> Aediles can
> authorize every citizen of any order to consult
> these collections,
> for example through Nova Roma official web site.

With the agreement of all the tribunes of the plebs,
the aediles may authorize any citizen of any order to
consult these collections, for example through the
Nova Roma official website.

> Article 12 :
>
> In order to fulfill their office, the Aediles of the
> Plebs organize,
> as they see fit, their departments. Like the other
> magistrates
> considered by the Constitution of Nova Roma, they
> may issue edicts,
> appoint assistants (scribes) to which they can
> delegate their powers
> in the bounds of Law, create discussing forums (also
> called "
> lists ") whose access may be, in their liking,
> public or restricted
> to administrative and managerial communication
> inside Aediles team.

Article 12:

In order to perform their duties, the aediles of the
plebs shall organize their affairs as they see fit.
Like the other magistrates dealt with by the
Constitution of Nova Roma, they may issue edicts,
appoint assistants (scribes) to whom they may delegate
their powers as limited by law, create discussion
forums (also called "lists") whose membership may be,
at their discretion, either public or restricted to
administrative and managerial communication within the
aediles' staffs.

> Article 13 :
>
> Aediles of the Plebs may hold their office with a
> Senator position
> under the conditions provided for in Senate Arminia
> Law of June 2,
> 2004.

(Comment: what do you mean here?)

> Article 14 :
>
> The part of the paragraph II.B.1 of the Centuriata
> Fabia law of
> December 2, 2003 concerning the Aediles of the Plebs
> is modified as
> follows :
>
> " Aediles of the Plebs receives, because of their
> office, the same
> amount of century points than Curule Aediles, namely
> fourteen (14)
> for a current service and seven (7) for a past
> service.".

Article 14:

The part of paragraph II.B.1 of the Fabian centuriate
law (lex Fabia centuriata) of December 2, 2756 which
concerns the aediles of the plebs is modified as
follows:

"Aediles of the plebs receive, on account of their
office, the same number of century points as the
curule aediles, namely fourteen (14) for current
service and seven (7) for past service."

> The present law shall be executed as a law of Nova
> Roma Republic.

The present statute shall be executed as a statute of
the republic of Nova Roma.

> Issued in Rome, on [month] [day], 2005.
> The presiding magistrate,
> XX XXXX XXXX
> Tribune of the Plebs

Issued in Roma, on [month] [day], 2758.
The presiding magistrate,
X. XX XXX
Tribune of the plebs

> Second text :
>
> CITIZENSHIP AND OFFICES RESIGNATION LAW
> (LEX MINIA DE EIURATIONE CIVITATIS OFFICIORUMQUE)

MINIAN LAW ON THE RESIGNATION OF CITIZENSHIP AND OF
OFFICE
(LEX MINIA DE EIURATIONE CIVITATIS HONORUMQUE)

(Comment: 'officium' is normally used in the sense of
'duty' rather than 'office'; 'office' is normally
rendered with 'honor', as in 'cursus honorum' rather
than 'cursus officiorum'.)

> The Tributes Comices of the Plebs having adopted by
> XX votes against
> YY and WW abstentions the following text.

The concilium plebis, has adopted by XX votes against
YY with WW abstentions the following text.

OR

The comitia plebis tributa have adopted by XX votes
against YY with WW abstentions the following text.

> Tribune P. Minius Albucius, as presiding magistrate,
> promulgates the
> law in its following terms :

Tribune P. Minius Albucius, as presiding magistrate,
promulgates the statute in the following terms:

> In sight of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specially
> its paragraph
> II.A.4.,

In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specifically
its paragraph II.A.4;

> In sight of Citizenship resignation Cornelia and
> Maria Law (Lex
> Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda) May 20, 2001
> (2754 a.u.c.),
> specially its first and second pargraphs,

In view of the Cornelian Marian statute on the
resignation of citizenship (lex Cornelia Maria de
civitate eiuranda) of May 20, 2754, specifically its
first and second paragraphs;

> Considering the need of precising the conditions of
> resignation from
> citizenship of Nova Roma and offices held in Its Res
> Publica,

In view of the need to clarify the conditions of
resignation of citizenship and of office in Nova Roma;

> Disposes :

It is disposed:

> Article 1
>
> The first (I) and second (II) paragraphs of
> Citizenship resignation
> Cornelia and Maria Law (Lex Cornelia et Maria de
> civitate eiuranda)
> May 20, 2001 (2754 a.u.c.) are replaced by the
> following ones :

Article 1:

The first (I) and second (II) paragraphs of the
Cornelian Marian statute on the resignation of
citizenship (lex Cornelia Maria de civitate eiuranda)
of May 20, 2654 are replaced by the following ones:

> « I. Resignation of citizenship from Nova Roma, as
> stated in
> paragraph II.A.4. of the constitution of Nova Roma,
> is made either
> by notification to the Censors, or by a message
> posted to an
> official Nova Roma e-mail list or electronic message
> board.

"I. Resignation of citizenship from Nova Roma, as
stated in paragraph II.A.4 of the constitution of Nova
Roma, is made either by notification to the censors,
or by a message posted to an official Nova Roma e-mail
list or electronic message board.

> The communicated information must contain, from the
> citizen willing
> to resign her/his novaroman citizenship, her/his
> clear intent to do
> it.

The notification must make clear the intent of the
citizen to resign her / his citizenship.

> If the citizen precises a future date from which
> her/his resignation
> becomes effective, the following rules will apply :
> a) if this date is further nine (9) days after than
> the
> communication day, the resignation will be effective
> from this date ;
> b) if this date is less than nine (9) days after
> than the
> communication day, the resignation will not be
> effective before this
> nine days period is passed.

If the citizen specifies a future date from which her
/ his resignation shall become effective, the
following rules will apply:
a) if this date is more than nine (9) days after the
day when the notification is sent, the resignation
will be effective from this date specified;
b) if this date is fewer than nine (9) days after the
day when the notification is sent, the resignation
will be effective from the tenth day after the day
when the notification is sent, regardless of the date
specified.

> If the citizen does not fix a date for her/his
> resignation, this one
> becomes effective after a period of nine (9) days
> after the
> communication day.

If the citizen does not specify a date for her / his
resignation, the resignation becomes effective on the
tenth day after the day when the notification is sent.

> This nine (9) days period is called, for the purpose
> of the present
> law, « the nundina ».

This nine-day period is called, for the purpose of the
present statute, "the nuninda".

> The resignation may be published through a message
> posted either to
> the e-mail « Main list » of Nova Roma, or to another
> Nova Roma
> official e-mail list or electronic message board.

The resignation may be published through a message
posted either to the e-mail "Main List" of Nova Roma,
or to another official e-mail list or electronic
message board of Nova Roma.

> The message posted to the e-mail « Main list » of
> Nova Roma is
> reputed, because of the wide diffusion of this list,
> to be
> communicated to many citizens. As such, the
> registered posting date
> of the resignation message by the owner of the list
> makes the
> nundina begin without any postponement.

A message of resignation posted to the e-mail "Main
List" of Nova Roma is considered, because of the large
membership of this list, to be communicated to many
citizens. Accordingly, the nundina shall begin
immediately from the registered posting date of the
resignation message.

> The message posted to another official e-mail list
> or electronic
> message board makes the nundina begin as soon as the
> resignation
> message will have been followed, in the
> chronological list of the
> messages sent to the concerned list or board, by at
> least three
> messages posted by three different novaroman
> citizens.

If a message of resignation is posted to another
official e-mail list or electronic message board, the
nundina shall begin as soon as the message has been
followed, in the chronological list of the messages
sent to the list or board in question, by at least
three messages posted by three different citizens.

> The resignation communicated verbally or by a
> writing to the Censors
> must be published by them on the « Main list » of
> Nova Roma, no
> later than 18 hours after they have received it. The
> censorial
> publication then includes the date and hour of the
> reception of the
> resignation message by their services.
> The beginning of the nundina then starts from this
> date and hour.

A resignation communicated verbally or in writing to
the censors must be published by them on the "Main
List" of Nova Roma no more than 18 hours after they
received it. In doing so, the censors shall also state
the date and hour when they received the resignation,
and the nundina shall begin from this date and hour.

> For the purpose of the present law :
> - « date » and « day » means the calendar date, and
> the hour of the
> considered action, if this hour is known ;
> - periods of time, as for example the nundina, are
> counted from the
> date and hour considered.

In the present statute:
- "date" and "day" mean the calendar date of the
action in question, and the hour if the hour is known;
- period of time, as for example the nundina, are to
be counted from the date and hour in question.

> II. The nundina period allows the resigning citizen
> to withdraw his
> or her resignation. During it, the resigning citizen
> keeps all
> her/his rights linked to her/his citizenship. When
> the nundina ends,
> the concerned person which would not have withdrawn
> her/his
> resignation looses automatically her/his
> citizenship.

II. The nundina allows the resigning citizen to
withdraw his or her resignation. During it, the
resigning citizen keeps all her / his rights of
citizenship. When the nundina ends, the person in
question automatically loses her / his citizenship if
she / he has not previously withdrawn her / his
resignation.

> The concerned citizen may, during the nundina,
> freely withdraw
> her/his resignation without penalty, except as
> defined in the third
> paragraph of the present law. This withdrawal takes
> the form of a
> message posted to the e-mail « Main list » of Nova
> Roma containing
> the clear decision of the citizen to withdraw
> her/his former
> resigning decision. The subject of this message,
> written in capital
> letters, will then be : « Resignation withdrawal».
> The citizen who
> does not follow these formal proceedings is reputed
> not having
> withdrawn her/his resignation.

The citizen in question may, during the nundina,
freely withdraw her / his resignation without penalty,
except as defined in the third paragraph of this
statute. This withdrawal must take the form of a
message posted to the e-mail "Main Lis" of Nova Roma
making clear the decision of the citizen to withdraw
her / his former resignation. The subject of this
message, written in capital letters, must be:
"RESIGNATION WITHDRAWAL". A citizen who does not
follow these formal rules is considered not to have
withdrawn her / his resignation.

> During the nundina, the citizen who would have
> communicated before
> her/his intent for resigning keeps also all her/his
> duties towards
> the Res publica. The citizen who thus occupies at
> this time one or
> several public office(s), honour(s) or
> distinction(s) must stay in
> this(these) position(s) and do her/his work as
> usual.

During the nundina, a citizen who has declared her /
his resignation also keeps all her / his duties toward
the res public. Thus a citizen who holds at that time
one or more public office(s), honour(s), or
distinction(s) shall retain this (these) and continue
to perform her / his duties as normal.

> The citizen who would not fulfill her/his public
> obligations during
> the nundina, would receive, during this period or
> after its end if
> the concerned citizen is still defaulting, an
> admonishing. This
> admonishing will be edicted either by her/his higher
> magistrate if
> the citizen is an apparitor, or, in other cases of
> positions
> provided for by the Constitution of Nova Roma, by
> one of the Censor
> or, if the concerned citizen belongs to a collegial
> magistracy (in
> which she/he stands with at least another citizen),
> by one of
> her/his colleagues.

A citizen who does not perform her / his public duties
during the nundina shall receive, during this periof
of after its end if the citizen in question is still
in default, and admonition. This admonition shall be
issued by edict by her / his magistrate if the citizen
is an apparitor, or, in the case of other positions
provided for by the constitution of Nova Roma, by one
of the censors or, if the citizen in question holds a
collegial magistracy (one which she / he holds with at
least one other citizen), by one of her / his
colleagues.

> The citizen who will have, according the present
> law, regularly
> withdrawn her/his resignation but will have received
> such an
> admonishing, must request an authorization to come
> back in office.
> This authorization is delivered by the unanimity of
> both Censors and
> all her/his colleagues in office.

A citizen who withdraws her / his resignation as
provided by this statute but who receives such an
admonition must request authorization to resume
office. Authorization may only be granted by the
agreement of both censors together with all the
citizen's colleagues in office.

> If only one of these magistrates does not agree with
> this
> authorization, the concerned citizen and magistrate
> will be reputed
> having resigned from her/his office. This
> authorization is edicted
> in the seven days following the request asked by the
> citizen. If no
> authorization is issued during this week, the
> request asked is
> reputed rejected, and the concerned citizen
> similarly reputed having
> resigned from her/his office.

If any one of these magistrates does not agree to give
authorization, the citizen in question is considered
to have resigned her / his office. This authorization
must be issued by edict within seven days from the
request of the citizen. If no authorization is given
within these seven days, the request is considered to
have been rejected, and the citizen in question is
considered to have resigned her / his office.

> In these both cases of reputed resignation, an
> election to fill the
> office left vacant by this citizen will be organized
> as soon as
> possible by the appropriate magistrates.

If by these means a citizen is considered to have
resigned her / his office, ane election to fill the
vacancy thus created shall be organized as soon as
possible by the appropriate magistrates.

> The present law shall be executed as a law of Nova
> Roma Republic.

This statute shall be executed as a statute of the
republic of Nova Roma.

> Issued in Rome, on [month] [day], 2005.
> The presiding magistrate,
> P. Minius Albucius
> Tribune of the Plebs

Issued in Roma, on [month] [day], 2758.
The presiding magistrate,
P. Minius Albucius
Tribune of the plebs





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32621 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Please ignore my last message
A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.

I really am making this mistake far too often. That
ought to have gone to Albucius privately, of course.
Apologies to everyone.





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32622 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Actually Apollonius Cordus, it was a pretty interesting read :-)

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.
>
> I really am making this mistake far too often. That
> ought to have gone to Albucius privately, of course.
> Apologies to everyone.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32623 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Salvete,

> In the absence of any official announcement from the
> pontificés, I have a working model of the calendar for this
> year based on all the historical information I've been able
> to find; anyone who wants it is welcome to contact me for a
> copy (I have also sent it to the pontificés in case they find
> it of any help, but I imagine they are already aware of all
> the sources I've used).

Incidentally, that happens to be the same information which I'm using to
make my nundinal posts. If a monthly posting would be more useful, then, in
addition to my nundinal posts, I'll put the calendar for the coming month in
with my last post for the month prior (e.g., the calendar for the entirety
of February would be included in my post for 24-31 Jan.).

Valete,

Quintus Caecilius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32624 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
M' CON SERAPIO A APOL CORDO SPD

While I read that message was not for the Main list, I couldn't
avoid to notice that you replaced "law" with "statute" wherever it
appeared. May I ask why? Aren't they laws?

Thank you in advance :-)

OPTIME VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32625 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
A. Apollónius Cordus M'. Constantínó Serapióní amícó
omnibusque sal.

> While I read that message was not for the Main list,
> I couldn't
> avoid to notice that you replaced "law" with
> "statute" wherever it
> appeared. May I ask why? Aren't they laws?

They are laws, but I noticed that in Albucius'
proposal he said:

> For the present law, the word " Law " designs all
> kinds of legal
> binding rules, from the Constitution and the laws to
> edicts or other
> types of regulations.

If he wants to use the word "law" to mean "the
constitution, légés, décréta, édicta, and senátús
cónsulta" then it would be confusing also to use the
same word to mean only "léx", so I suggested using
"statute" to mean "léx".

I hope that's clear - it's a bit hard to explain. :)





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32626 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: [newroman] Candidacy for the position of Editor Commentariorum
Quaestor Troianus;

My thanks for your explanation. It is a pleasure to work with someone
of the Religio who is able to contain himself and speak without
invective, accusation or insult.

Now that you have clearly explained the possible (not absolute) views of
those whoo have been rather agressive in thier words in this matter, I
in my turn can make sure that I consider these possibilities in my futre
actions in order not to unduly upset anyone or any group..

In response, I do not agree and never considered the possibility, that
limiting the material in a newsletter is undermiing anything.
Particularly since the reason for the limitation was clearly stated, and
the final result of the matter is the very explosion of insult,
invective and very crude name-calling which resulted ehich was the
reason that the limitation was put in place to delete. Since no
protest of such, by the Pontifex Maximus was heard in relation to
"undermining the Religio," and in regard to my conduct towards those
whose beliefs, in the Senate on ever voting occasion since I was
elevated to a Senate seat, encompass the Religio, and further the
support of the Pontifex Maximus and certain other pontiffs in reachng
this final determination, I reject the whole idea of my "Trying to
undermine he Religio." It seems to me that certain peope are looing for
trouble where there is none.

However, I am pleased at your explanation and at the opportunity to talk
again with you. You have proven yourself to be a quiet reasonable
person, who prefers to ask rather than accuse. In my world you would go
far, and I hope the same will apply for your world as well.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32627 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Salvete, Quirites.

As one of the pontifices who has worked most intimately with the
calendar, let me assure the Tribuni Plebis that the calendar on the NR
website contains the information necessary for them to make judgments
about convening the Comitia without violating religious law. The dies
fasti, nefasti, nefasti publici, comitiales, and endotercisi are
listed for each month on the calendar and are correct. The dies atri
will eventually be so listed as the calendar is amplified, but dies
atri are merely customary and not binding in religious law, i.e., it
was customary not to initiate new business on a dies ater, but doing
so did not religiously invalidate the business. In addition to the
day after the Kalendae, Nonae, and Idus there are a handful of other
dies atri. The legal status of days did not change from year to year
except for the moveable feriae which were determined by the Collegium
at the beginning of the month in which they occurred (or in the month
immediately prior in a handful of cases because they occurred at the
beginning of a month); unfortunately the Collegium cannot apprise the
Tribuni any sooner of those because they change from year to year.
There is a problem with the nundinal days listing on the website,
since it is based on a late antique paradigm which was not in use in
the republic. I hope to have that corrected when I have a chance to
update the calendar during my spring break. I hope this answers the
outstanding questions.

Valete.

Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32628 From: Manius Constantinus Serapio Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
M' CON SERAPIO A APOL CORDO SPD

> If he wants to use the word "law" to mean "the
> constitution, légés, décréta, édicta, and senátús
> cónsulta" then it would be confusing also to use the
> same word to mean only "léx", so I suggested using
> "statute" to mean "léx".
>
> I hope that's clear - it's a bit hard to explain. :)

I perfecty understand. My only concern was about the possibility of
troubles with the principle of legal precedence, as the Constitution
explicitly talks about "laws" to mean "leges". I wouldn't like the
use of the term "statute" to create some silly quarrel in the
future. :-)

Well, I know I'm maybe a bit excessive, still we saw a lot of things
in NR, you know... :-)

OPTIME VALE
Serapio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32629 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Minerva
I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
to national armed defense?

I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
always obvious, so I usually question.

Decimus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32630 From: Fr. Apulus Caesar Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA IS CALLED
FRANCISCVS APVLVS CAESAR CONSVL OMNIBVS S.P.D.

The Comitia Populi Tributa is called to vote for the Tribal magistrates for
calendar year 2758 auc.

The Contio will begin at noon in Roma (Central European Time) on XX January
2005 and will continue until midnight of the same day.
Voting will then commence, beginning at 00:01 XXI January 2005 and lasting
until midnight XXVIII January 2005.
All the days are Comitiales.
No votes received after 00:00 XXIX January 2005 will be counted.

The presidium tribe shall be Horatia (tribe IV).

There is one vacant place. I'll continue to accept declarations of
candidacies from qualified candidates for the last place of Quaestor during
the Contio until such time as candidates exist to fill all vacancies or the
Voting period will start.
Please, send your candidacy at fraelov@... [fraelov @ yahoo.it]

The magistracies, and the candidates for them, are:

QUAESTOR (1 opening)

Still need at least one candidate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

MAGISTER ARANEARIUS (webmaster, 1 opening)

Quintus Cassius Calvus
citizen since 2001 / 12 / 17
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=3170

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM (editor of the Aquila, 1 opening)

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
1998 / 07 / 01
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=20


Valete bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
------------------------------
NOVA ROMA
------------------------------
Senior Consul
Senator
Legatus Italiae - http://italia.novaroma.org
Lictor et Scriba
Pater Familiae Gens Apula - http://italia.novaroma.org/apula/
Dominus Factionis Russatae - http://aediles.novaroma.org/russata/
Magister Academiae Italicae - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32631 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Minerva
Its not a stupid question. I prayed and offered to
Minerva feverishly during legal difficulty last year.
Her defensive skills got me through a tough fix.
--- jojobean20@... <jojobean20@...>
wrote:
>
> I've been doing a little research on Minerva.
Considering she is
> the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense
would be
> included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or
physical
> defense such as muggings and assaults or is this
just relgated
> to national armed defense?
>
> I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers
aren't
> always obvious, so I usually question.
>
> Decimus Iulius Caesar
>
>
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32632 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
--- M. Arminia Maior Fabiana spd;
Salve Gai Iuli unfortunately I am confused. Being a Gaia Average
I went back to the NR website and clicked on the interactive calendar.
I just see a bunch of gray colored days listed with Roman numerals,
when I click on it it says nothing for that day.

Where are the nice red, green colors? Where are the "NP" legends,
what the heck do the Roman numerals stand for (I found out after 10
minutes, the Gregorian Calender) I tried to find the feria for the
Ara Pacis which comes at the end of the month, I don't know when it
is.
I think there is a big disconnect somewhere and I'm not the only
one with this problem, so please explain.
bene vale in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32633 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: Minerva
Q. Caecilius Metellus D. Iulio Caesari salutem dicit.

> I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
> the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
> included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
> defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
> to national armed defense?

Well, She's generally deemed to handle defensive war, which would imply what
you phrase as "national armed defense," but I don't see why She wouldn't
handle personal defense. If you agree with the equation of Athene to
Minerva, and Ulysses' journey, then it would appear to me that She surely
handles personal defense.

As I usually say on matters of personal practice, this is something which is
entirely personal, and boils down to your relationship with Her Royal
Highness the Wisest.

Vale Bene,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus

--
Sparen beginnt mit GMX DSL: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32634 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
> Where are the nice red, green colors? Where are the "NP" legends,
> what the heck do the Roman numerals stand for (I found out after 10
> minutes, the Gregorian Calender) I tried to find the feria for the
> Ara Pacis which comes at the end of the month, I don't know when it
> is.

The quick answer is that the calendar is connected to a database file, which
would have to be written every year. So getting that programmed for the
coming year isn't exactly the quickest thing to do. But, you can take my
word for it, it's being worked on.

As for the feriae, those were, as far as I know, posted to the calendar
individually. That function still functions, and is fairly easily used.

Vale Bene,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32635 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Emergency: One French Translator needed
Salvete,

I am in need of a person who is fluent in both French and English to
transcribe a rather complicated text from English into French. I'll
need this done as soon as humanly possible.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Scriba Censoris adCommunicationes Primus
for Censor Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32636 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> --- M. Arminia Maior Fabiana spd;
> Salve Gai Iuli unfortunately I am confused. Being a Gaia
Average
> I went back to the NR website and clicked on the interactive
calendar.
> I just see a bunch of gray colored days listed with Roman
numerals,
> when I click on it it says nothing for that day.
>
> Where are the nice red, green colors? Where are the "NP" legends,
> what the heck do the Roman numerals stand for (I found out after
10
> minutes, the Gregorian Calender) I tried to find the feria for the
> Ara Pacis which comes at the end of the month, I don't know when
it
> is.

Salve,

As Quintus Caecilius Metellus has explained the need to rewrite the
database for the coming year in the meantime:
http://www.novaroma.org/calendar/januarius.html

This one lists the Ara Pacis as III Kalends Feb. (Jan 30th). As I
do not believe the Ara Pacis is a moveable feast that should be the
date this year as well.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32637 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Salvete Metelle et Calve;
thanks very much for both your replies, I sort of was wondering;-)
I certainly can see where reprogramming takes a lot of time, can this
be done ahead of time?
bene valete
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ


So getting that programmed for the
> coming year isn't exactly the quickest thing to do. But, you can
take my
> word for it, it's being worked on.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32638 From: Gregory Rose Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
G. Iulius Scaurus M. Arminiae Maiori Fabianae salutem dicit.

Salve, M. Arminia Maior.

I am not talking about the interactive calendar, which to my knowledge
has never been fully implemented, but rather the calendar in the
Religio section:

http://www.novaroma.org/calendar/

I hope this clarifies what I mean.

Vale.

Scaurus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32639 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Minerva
I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
to national armed defense?

I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
always obvious, so I usually question.

Decimus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32640 From: Caius Minucius Scaevola Date: 2005-01-18
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Sa

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 02:43:42AM +0100, Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus wrote:
> > Where are the nice red, green colors? Where are the "NP" legends,
> > what the heck do the Roman numerals stand for (I found out after 10
> > minutes, the Gregorian Calender) I tried to find the feria for the
> > Ara Pacis which comes at the end of the month, I don't know when it
> > is.
>
> The quick answer is that the calendar is connected to a database file, which
> would have to be written every year. So getting that programmed for the
> coming year isn't exactly the quickest thing to do. But, you can take my
> word for it, it's being worked on.

The version that I was talking about building, intended to contain the
info from G. Equitius Cato's calendar posts, is pretty well done. I'm
working on prettifying the output, but the functional end of it is up.
We are meeting tomorrow so we can discuss some of the layout and other
aspects.

I'm very grateful to A. Apollonius Cordus, without whose help this would
not have been nearly as easy; his compiled calendar data has been
invaluable, and is in fact being used as the source "database" for this
project.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes.
It is foolish to fear what you cannot avoid.
-- Cicero, "De officiis"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32642 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Candidacy for Quaestor
Salve, Citizens of Rome!

I , Tiberius Galerius Paulinus humbly come before you to ask for your support
and vote for the office of Quaestor I have asked for and received your support
three times in the past and I ask for it again. I have had the honor of serving
you as Curator Differium, Quaestor, and this year as Tribune.
I am 47 years old, and I have been a citizen of Nova Roma since the 21st day of
the Ianuarius 2755.

I am employed as a teacher in the macro world , teaching
government and history in Mediatlantica Provincia. I have the honor of serving
our Junior Consul Gnaeus Equitius Marinus as a Legate in his capacity as
Propraetor.


I believe I have maintained the highest integrity and dedication to the welfare
of Nova Roma and her citizens.



Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Quaestor
Fortuna Favet Fortibus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32643 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestor
Salve Tiberi Galeri Pauline!

Thanks for stepping up to the plate. You certainly have my support
and I'd be glad to work with you in this department. Good luck!

QLP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salve, Citizens of Rome!
>
> I , Tiberius Galerius Paulinus humbly come before you to ask for
your support
> and vote for the office of Quaestor I have asked for and received
your support
> three times in the past and I ask for it again. I have had the
honor of serving
> you as Curator Differium, Quaestor, and this year as Tribune.
> I am 47 years old, and I have been a citizen of Nova Roma since the
21st day of
> the Ianuarius 2755.
>
> I am employed as a teacher in the macro world , teaching
> government and history in Mediatlantica Provincia. I have the honor
of serving
> our Junior Consul Gnaeus Equitius Marinus as a Legate in his
capacity as
> Propraetor.
>
>
> I believe I have maintained the highest integrity and dedication to
the welfare
> of Nova Roma and her citizens.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Quaestor
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32644 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Check in
Salvete omnes,

It has been as cold as a witches t... er chest out where I'm working
(-42 C) and things have been a little delayed on our project starting
with the fast internet. It should be up in a day or two so I can
communicate full time in NR.

Censor Marine, Quintiliane and Quinte Calve - I saw your
correspondence regarding that issue we were addressing, I concur with
your findings and want to thank you all for the effort. If I ever
find out any more info through future corresspondance I'll let you
know right away. See you all in a day or two!


QLP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32645 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Minerva
Salve !

I think that Minerva, being given her other attributions, is rather
the Goddess of tactical intelligence and strategy, that includes
spiritual defense. She does not seem to me related to physics
violence and brutality.

Vale !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor
Aedilician Quaestor


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <jojobean20@h...> wrote:
>
>
> I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
> the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
> included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
> defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
> to national armed defense?
>
> I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
> always obvious, so I usually question.
>
> Decimus Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32646 From: Lucius Apollonius Clement Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Emergency: One French Translator needed
Lucius Apollonius Clement Q. Cassio Calvo S.P.D.

Salve !

Can you send me the text ? I am fluent both in English and French and I
can probably help you. No promise is to be made on the result though, as
it will depend on my availibility and the amount of work you need to be
done.

Vale,

Lucius Apollonius Clement.

>
> Salvete,
>
> I am in need of a person who is fluent in both French and English to
> transcribe a rather complicated text from English into French. I'll
> need this done as soon as humanly possible.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> Scriba Censoris adCommunicationes Primus
> for Censor Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32647 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Salvete Quirites,

Two years ago I had the benefit of a fine Quaestor during my year as
Curule Aedile. His name: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus. This man knows
the job of Quaestor well, and will perform it admirably. Please vote
for him.

Valete,

-- Marinus

> I , Tiberius Galerius Paulinus humbly come before you to ask for your support
> and vote for the office of Quaestor[...]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32648 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: call to Pontifices! about the Calendar ( was Reque...
Salve Scaevola;
my thanks, that is terrific! I wish the pontifices would
contact our citizens to help them with projects like this. But I am
more than glad you, Cordus and good Cato had the initiative to go
forward.
I think this is an excellent example of cives who are not members
of the Religio contributing to its growth and dissemination. We
really are fortunate in Nova Roma.
gratias tibi ago
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ

> The version that I was talking about building, intended to contain
the
> info from G. Equitius Cato's calendar posts, is pretty well done.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32649 From: titus sempronius marcellus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Bellona
Salve,
I am looking for as much info on the goddess bellona can any one
help me
vale
Titus Sempronius Marcellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32650 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: 1/3000 taxes per caput of the following persons ...pls... :)
M. Flavius Philippus Conservatus omnibus salutem dicit.

who wants to play lottery if you one of them as family member? :))


privet means of:

M.Licinius Crassus ca 200mio sestertii (1st half 1st century BC)

L.Licinius Lucullus ca 100mio sestertii (2nd half 1st century BC)

L.Cornelius Balbus ca 50mio sestertii (2nd half 1.century BC)

Cn.Cornelius Lentulus ca 400mio sestertii (Augustus era)

C.Iulius Licinius ca 200-300mio sestertii (Augustus era)

M.Vipsanius Agrippa ca >100mio sestertii (Augustus era)

L.Tarius Rufus ca 100mio sestertii (Augustus era)

C.Caecilius Isidorus ca 100mio sestertii (Augustus era)

M.Gavius Apicius ca 110mio sestertii (Tiberius era)

M.Antonius Pallas ca 300mio sestertii (Claudius era)

L.Volusius Saturninus ca 300mio sestertii (Claudius era)

C.Sallustius Crispus Passienus ca 200mio sestertii (Claudius era)

C.Iulius Callistus ca >200mio sestertii (Claudius era)

Arruntius ca 30mio sestertii (Claudius era)

Q.Stertinius & C.Stertinius Xenophon ca >30mio sestertii (Claudius era)

Narcissus ca 400mio sestertii (Nero era)

L.Annaeus Seneca ca 300mio sestertii (Nero era)

Krinas of Massilia ca 20mio sestertii (Nero era)

T.Clodius Eprius Marcellus ca 200mio sestertii (Vespasianus era)

Iunius Quintus Vibius Crispus ca 300mio sestertii (2nd half 1st century AD)

Ti.Claudius Hipparchus ca 100mio sestertii (Domitianus era)

M.Aquilius Regulus ca 60-120mio sestertii (Domitianus era)

G.Plinius Caecilius Secundus ca 20mio sestertii (Traianus era)

Ti.Claudius Atticus Herodes ca >100mio sestertii (Hadrianus era)

L.Vibullius Hipparchus Tiberius Claudius Atticus Herodes ca >100mio sestertii (Marcus Aurelius era)



minimum to be member of the od. equ. 400.000 sestertii (republic)

minimum to be member in the reigns of senators 1.000.000 sestertii (Augustus era)



sources:
http://www.imperiumromanum.com/wirtschaft/wert/loehne_03.htm
K.-W.Weeber, "Luxus im alten Rom",
H.-J.Drexhage, "Preise, Mieten/Pachten, Kosten und Löhne im römischen Ägypten",
F.De Martino, "Wirtschaftsgeschichte des alten Rom"
______________________________________________________________
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32651 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Candidacy For Edtor Commentariorum
Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you in the White Toga to again announce my Candidacy for
the subject Magistry. Since the Honored Senior Consul has been pleased
to announce the make -up elections this month, I come before you one
last time to brief you on my latest activity in that subject area..

I come before you, not as some have indicated, to bore you, but rather
to keep you informed as to both my Candidacy for this Magistry, my
concerns for this Magistry, as well as my progress as the Editor
Commentariorum (Brevis - Temporary).

As I have indicated previously, the material for the four planned
publications has been gathered, and will all be forward to the printers
by the 20th of this month for planned issue by the 31st..

The question of religious materials has been settled by cooler heads,
and at this time there will be one Religious element appearing in
"Aquila" and hopefully (depending upon individual scheduling) one in the
"Roman Times Quarterly" as well.

In regard to additional literary efforts for Nova Roma, I have recieved
a document which has been donated to Nova Roma for publishing. I am
schedlued to meet today with my local printers / publishers, to
determine the cost of the publishing effort, which will in turn
establish the cost for the publication to you, the Ciizens of Nova Roma,
should you be interested.

I have also included the twelve 2005 "Eagle (Aquila)" issues in my
consideration for a Nova Roma publication and have previously offered
them to you in hard cover at the price it costs for printing plus a
small profit for Nova Roma. I am at the moment pursueing a third
opportunity for a possible future publication, if the owner will donate
the material to Nova Roma and entrust me with the task.

So, I have been engaged in a few new areas of endeavor in this Tempory
Magistry in an effort to bring to you, the Citizens of Nova Roma, a more
complete choice of Literary selections for your enjoyment.

That is all of my current news at the moment. When I learn more, I
shall be pleased to keep you updated as to my actions and what I am both
doing, and what I am investigating and / or planning. After all, that,
in my view, is one of the requirements of any group or individual
within Nova Roma who enjoys the support of the Citizens.

If my service to you in the past 13 months has been satisfactory, and
has met my promises and your requirements for this Magistry, then in
closing, I ask for your consideration at the polls when they are opened
on the 20th of this month.

Very Respecfully;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
Acting Editor (Brevis) for "Aquila"

A Candidate for the Nova Roman Magistry of Editor Commentariorum


Wishing you all the best, with Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32652 From: Marcus Minucius Audens Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: My Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you to recommend to you M. Tiberius Paulinus. I have known and worked with this gentleman for some time. While we do not always agree we can and have agreed to disagree and to me that is the mark of a mature individual. Nova Roma needs all of these that she can get!!!!

In addition, he has performed very well as the Curator Differum during his term, and at the end of it, was instrumental in pursuading another to take his place as a Candidate for the following year. He has performed well, according to his lights, as a Tribune, and in my face-to-face involvement with him has been most agreeable and capable in whatever he has undertaken.

I am plased to support Master Tiberius in his Candidacy for Quaestor, and I predict that with your support, you will have a strong Magistrate who, as Censor Marinus has indicated, will do his job well because he knows it well, and who has always looked to the benefit of the Citizens of Nova Roma and to the micronation as well. Please give your consideration to Master Tiberius as you go to the polls,and I appeal to you as a long-time Citizen of Nova Roma, Please!!!!!! Do go to the polls and vote!!!!

Very Respectfully

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32653 From: Marcus Minucius Audens Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: My Endorsement of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you to recommend to you M. Tiberius Paulinus. I have known and worked with this gentleman for some time. While we do not always agree we can and have agreed to disagree and to me that is the mark of a mature individual. Nova Roma needs all of these that she can get!!!!

In addition, he has performed very well as the Curator Differum during his term, and at the end of it, was instrumental in pursuading another to take his place as a Candidate for the following year. He has performed well, according to his lights, as a Tribune, and in my face-to-face involvement with him has been most agreeable and capable in whatever he has undertaken.

I am plased to support Master Tiberius in his Candidacy for Quaestor, and I predict that with your support, you will have a strong Magistrate who, as Censor Marinus has indicated, will do his job well because he knows it well, and who has always looked to the benefit of the Citizens of Nova Roma and to the micronation as well. Please give your consideration to Master Tiberius as you go to the polls,and I appeal to you as a long-time Citizen of Nova Roma, Please!!!!!! Do go to the polls and vote!!!!

Very Respectfully

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32654 From: Lucius Iulius Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Edictum Aedilicium
EDICTVM AEDILICIVM
DE PRAECEDENTIA EDICTA COMMERCIALIA CONFIRMANDA

In accordance with the Constitution of Nova Roma, we, G Fabia Livia
and L Iulius Sulla, Aediles Curules for the current year, confirm
and promulgate the following Edicta issued by the past Aediles
Curules Gn Iulius Scaurus and M Iulius Perusianus:

EDICTUM AEDILICIUM DE LEGIBUS PAREUNDIS IN REBUS COMMERCII
EDICTUM DE INTERDICTO RESTITUTORIO PER FORMULAM ARBITRARIAM
EDICTUM AEDILICIUM DE COMMERCIO IUSTO

Follows the complete text of the mentioned Edita.


EDICTUM AEDILICIUM DE LEGIBUS PAREUNDIS IN REBUS COMMERCII

Since violation of macronational law in a venue sponsored or
operated by Nova Roma opens the republic and corporation to the
possibility of legal action for abetting that violation, the Aediles
Curules are compelled to protect the republic and the corporation by
ensuring that such violations cease immediately on determination
that they have occurred.
Therefore,
I. To meet macronational legal requirements vendors in Nova
Roman venues in the United States of America who take orders by
surface mail, email, or telephone are required to comply with the
Mail and Telephone Merchandise Order Rule of the Federal Trade
Commission. The text of the rule and guidelines for compliance are
provided by the Federal Trade Commission at:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.htm
II. In the event that the Aediles Curules receive a complaint of
noncompliance with this rule by a vendor under their authority and
the Aedilician Court in accordance with the Edictum do Commercio
Iusto should find that the rule has been violated, the violator's
privilege of advertising in the Macellum will be suspended
immediately for a period of one year, a request will be placed
before the Censores for removal of the violator from the Ordo
Equester, if applicable, and for a nota depriving the violator of
the rights of commercium (carrying on business in NR venues),
honores (holding office, including senatorial rank), and suffragium
(voting in Comitia) for one year, and the Federal Trade Commission
will be informed of the violation.
III. Like all judgments of the Aedilician Court in accordance
with the Edictum de Commercium Iusto, a judgment under this edictum
shall be subject to appropriate intercessio and appeal to the
Comitia Populi Tributa. Notice of appeal must be received within
seventy-two hours of publication of the judgment.
IV. This edictum takes effect immediately.


EDICTUM DE INTERDICTO RESTITUTORIO PER FORMULAM ARBITRARIAM

I. Arbitration for Commercial Disputes
A. Aedilician Jurisdiction
1. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.e, endows the
Aediles Cururles with the power and obligation "to maintain the
venues where the Ordo Equester are engaged in commerce, within Nova
Roma property," the Aediles Curules assume jurisdiction over
commercial disputes arising from transactions between Nova Roman
citizens and peregrines on Nova Roman property, at Nova Roman
events, or through the Macellum;
2. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.b, endows the
Aediles Curules with the power and obligation "to administer the
law," the jurisdiction of the Aediles Curules over commercial
disputes as specified in I.A.1 of this edictum shall include the
establishment of tribunals to arbitrate such disputes and the
issuance of interdicta restitutoria per formulam arbitrariam to
resolve them;
3. Whereas the Constitution of Nova Roma, IV.A.4.a, empowers
and obliges the Aediles Curules "to hold imperium," the procedures
of arbitration specified in this edictum shall have the force of law
and default or defiance thereof shall constitute obstruction of
justice.
B. Requirement of Arbitration Agreement
1. The actor of an arbitration must execute an agreement to
accept binding arbitration and submit it at the time of the request
for arbitration.
2. The reus of an arbitration must execute an agreement to
accept binding arbitration and submit it at the time of the reply to
the request for arbitration.
3. The text of the agreement to accept binding arbitration is
found in Appendix I of this edictum.
C. Definition of Terms
1. Arbitration. Arbitration is a form of interdictum
restitutorium per formulam arbitrariam. It consists of a binding
agreement between parties to place their commercial dispute before
an Aedilis Curulis for resolution by a tribunal of arbitri appointed
by the presiding Aedilis Curulis and to abide by that resolution
permanently and entirely.
a. Arbitration is a form of interdictum restitutorium because
its determination forbids the illicit transfer of possession of
something of value from one party to another, voiding the commercial
transaction, and restoring the status quo ante the dispute,
compensating by award such parties as may have been injured by the
status quo post.
b. Arbitration is per formulam arbitrariam since it entails
determination by a tribunal of arbitri rather than a quaestio of
iudices, requires no sponsio, and its determination does not result
in criminal sanction.
2. Criminal sanction may arise from default or obstruction of
justice in the arbitration process.
3. Presiding Aedilis Curulis. The presiding Aedilis Curulis is
the Aedilis Curulis to whom the instant request for arbitration has
been presented; the presiding Aedilis Curulis must cede the right to
preside to his Aedilician colleague in the event of a demonstrated
conflict of interest involving himself and the parties when either
Aedilis Curulis judges that such a conflict exists.
4. Party
a. A party is a person or group of persons who have a dispute
with another person or persons over a single commercial transaction.
i. A single commercial transaction may involve multiple objects
or purchases possession of which is taken at the same time.
b. Only citizens of Nova Roma, members of the Ordo Equester,
vendors on Nova Roman property, at Nova Roman events, or through the
Macellum, and peregrines who have executed an agreement to binding
abritration (Appendix I of this edictum) may be a party to a request
for arbitration or reply to a request for arbitration.
i. An actor may refuse to execute an agreement to binding
arbitration, but in such cases the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall
refuse the request for arbitration with prejudice.
ii. A member of the Ordo Equester may refuse to execute an
agreement to binding arbitration. However, on such refusal the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall notify the Censores and request
entry of a nota indicating the refusal. Such a refusal shall result
in termination of the arbitration process.
iii. A vendor on the Macellum may refuse to execute an agreement
to binding arbitration, but the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall
require the Curator Araneum to post a report of the refusal in
connection with the vendor's advertisement in the Macellum
permanently. Such a refusal shall result in termination of the
arbitration process.
iv. A vendor on Nova Roman property or at Nova Roman events may
refuse to execute an agreement to binding arbitration and shall be
refused permission to vend at the above specified venues. Such a
refusal shall result in termination of the arbitration process.
v. Execution of an agreement to binding arbitration does not
preclude pursuit of praetorian and/or macronational remedies for
offences specified in I.E of this edictum.
c. The party who submits the request for arbitration is the
actor;
d. The party against whom the claim is lodged in the request
for arbitration is the reus.
5. Arbiter. An arbiter is a fair and impartial determiner of
fact, appointed by the presiding Aedilis in accordance with III.A
and B and IV.A of this edictum. No person shall be an arbiter who is
not assiduus at the time of appointment and through the final
determination of the arbitration.
6. Tribunal. A Tribunal is a panel of three arbitri who shall
hear evidence and make a final determination of the arbitration by
majority vote.
7. Pignus.
a. The pignus is a surety provided by each party. The pignus
may consist of the disputed property or a sum of money equal to the
value of the requested award.
b. The award shall be paid from the pignus.
c. In extraordinary circumstances in the interest of justice
and with the concurrence of both the presiding Aedilis Curulis and
his aedilician colleague, the requirement of a pignus may be waived
by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
d. The pignus of each party shall be safeguarded by the
quaestor of the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
e. In the event of termination of the arbitration by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis for any reason except default or
determination, the pignus of each party shall be returned to each
party.
f. In the event of default the pignus of the defaulting party
shall be given to the non-defaulting party and the non-defaulting
party's pignus returned.
D. Confidentiality.
1. All arbitrations, excepting the deliberation of the arbitri,
shall be a matter of public record.
2. Parties to the arbitration and their witnesses, and the
arbitri must waive their right to confidentiality under the Leges
Cornelia et Vedia de Privatus Rebus.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall ensure that a permanent
record is kept of all official correspondence pertaining to
arbitrations and that a record of hearing and determination is
prepared and issued at his direction.
E. Default Praetorian and Macronational Jurisdiction. Any
request for arbitration which alleges a Nova Roman or macronational
criminal offence shall be rejected by the presiding Aedilis Curulis
and referred by default to praetorian jurisdiction and macronational
authorities for appropriate action. The presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall also inform the Consules of such referral in timely fashion
and, through them, the Senate.
II. Communications, Time Periods, Prohibited Dates, and Place of
Arbitration
A. Methods of communication. Surface mail, mail, telefax, and
telephonic conference are permitted methods of communication except
as indicated below. Hearings shall be conducted by email, telephonic
conference, or physical meeting. The means of communication not
specified below for procedures shall be determined from the above
list by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
B. Time period. A nundinum shall be reckoned as a period of
eight days inclusive.
C. Prohibited Dates. No business pertaining to arbitration
shall be conducted on a dies nefastus. If business pertaining to
arbitration is accidentally conducted on a dies nefastus, the
business must be conducted anew and an expiation performed as
recommended by the Collegium Pontificum.
D. Place of Arbitration. The electronic or physical venue of
hearing and deliberation shall be determined by the presiding
Aedilis Curulis after consultation with the parties and their
advocati.
III. Procedures for Filing for Arbitration
A. Request for Arbitration
1. Any party, as defined in I.C.4 above, to a commercial
transaction may file a request for arbitration by written
communication to the presiding Aedilis Curulis. The requesting party
shall be termed the actor. Such a request must contain the following
information:
a. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of all
parties and witnesses;
b. Designation of the actor's advocatus, if any;
c. A brief description of nature and circumstances of the
dispute and the actor's claim;
d. A brief statement of relief sought and amount, if any,
claimed;
e. A signed agreement to accept binding arbitration; the signed
agreement must be sent by post to the presiding Aedilis Curulis (the
form of the agreement must be that found in Appendix I of this
edictum);
f. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of two
arbitri proposed by the actor.
g. The disputed propery or check or international money order
in the amount of the pignus, if required; the financial instrument
for the pignus must be sent by post to the presiding Aedilis
Curulis;
h. The oath of the actor in Appendix II of this edictum.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall acknowledge in writing
receipt of the request for arbitration from the actor;
3. The aedilis shall forward a full copy of the request for
arbirtration to the reus within one nundinum of original receipt of
the request.
4. If any of the material required in III.A.1 is absent from
the request for arbitration, the request shall be dismissed without
prejudice. Five copies of all the material required in III.A.1 shall
be submitted at the time of request.
5. The presiding Aedilis Curulis may refuse to accept a request
for arbitration on grounds of jurisdictional incompetence, defect of
law, or inconsistency with reason. The presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall inform the actor of the refusal and its grounds within one
nundinum of receipt of the request for arbitration.
B. Reply of Reus to the Request for Arbitration.
1. The reus shall have two nundina from the date of
transmission or postmark of the forwarded original request for
arbitration to reply to that request. The reply to request must be
by written communication to the presiding Aedilis Curulis and
include:
a. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of all
parties and witnesses;
b. Designation of the reus' advocatus, if any;
c. A brief description of nature and circumstances of the
dispute and reply to the actor's claim;
d. A signed agreement to accept binding arbitration; the signed
agreement must be sent by post to the Curulis Aedilis (the form of
the agreement must be that found in Appendix I of this edictum);
e. Names, addresses, email, telephone and/or telefax of two
arbitri proposed by the reus;
f. The disputed property or a check or international money
order in the amount of the pignus, if required; the financial
instrument for the pignus must be sent by post to the presiding
Aedilis Curulis;
g. The oath of the reus in Appendix II of this edictum.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall acknowledge in writing
receipt of the reply to request for arbitration from the reus.
3. The aedilis shall forward a full copy of the reply to
request for arbitration to the actor within one nundinum of receipt
of the reply to the request.
4. A continuance of no more than two nundina may be granted by
the presiding Aedilis Curulis for compliance with III.B.1.
5. If the reus declines to participate in arbitration, the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall deny the request for arbitration.
6. If the reus accepts arbitration and if any of the material
required in III.B.1. is absent from the reply to the request, the
reus shall be held to be in default. Five copies of all the material
required in III.A.1 shall be submitted at the time of request.
C. Upon receipt of the reply to request for arbitration the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall initiate the procedures of
arbitration within two nundina and notify the parties thereof.
IV. Procedures of Arbitration
A. Appointment of Arbitri and Default Appointment
1. Upon notification that arbitration has been initiated by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis, the actor may preemptorily challenge one
of the reus' arbitri; notice of challenge shall be communicated to
the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
2. Upon notification that arbitration has been inititated by
the presiding Aedilis Curulis, the reus may preemptorily challenge
one of the actors' arbitri; notice of challenge shall be
communicated to the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint the unchallenged
arbitri of the actor and reus arbitri on a tribunal to hear,
deliberate, and determination the outcome of the arbitration. If no
arbiter is challenged, the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall select
one from each submitted panel.
4. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint an impartial and
independent third arbitrator of his selection to service as arbiter
on a tribunal to hear, deliberate, and determination the outcome of
the arbitration.
5. In the event that a arbiter duly appointed for the actor or
reus shall be unable to perform his duties before commencement of
the hearing, the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall appoint an
impartial and independent replacement of his selection.
6. If the actor and/or reus shall refuse to accept any
appointment of arbiter to the tribunal, the refusing party/parties
shall be held in default.
7. If, the hearing having commenced, a arbiter is unable to to
perform his duties, the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall act as
arbiter in his place. If more than one arbiter is unable to perform
his duties under these circumstances, the tribunal shall be
dissolved and a new tribunal selected in accordance with III.A.1.f,
III.B.1.f, and IV.A. of this edictum.
8. No citizen shall be compelled to serve as an arbiter, but,
having accepted the office, no arbiter shall withdraw except for
corruption, conflict of interest, grave illness, or other serious
reason sufficient to the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
B. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall preside over the
tribunal and rule upon points of order and law. The decisions of the
presiding Aedilis Curulis shall be binding on the arbitri, the
parties, their advocati, and witnesses.
1. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall prepare a formula on the
basis of the request for arbitration and the reply to the request
for arbitration.
2. This formula shall take the form: "N, NN, and NNN shall be
the arbitri. If it appears that the claim of the actor, Titius, to
wit [statement of claim of the actor] should prevail in the matter
in dispute, the arbitri shall require that the reus, Seius, provide
the award, to wit [statement of the award] to the actor; otherwise
the arbitri shall absolve the reus."
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall inform the parties and
arbitri of the formula at the time specified in III.C of this
edictum.
4. When the cause of justice shall require, the presiding
Aedilis Curulis may amend the formula at any point prior to
conclusion of the hearing. The parties and arbitri shall be notified
immedidately of any amendments to the formula.
5. No award in formula shall require a reus to perform a
dishonourable, criminal, or otherwise infamous act.
C. Oaths
1. Of arbitri. Each arbiter appointed to the tribunal shall
take the oath specified in Appendix II of this edictum before
undertaking his duties;
2. Of Parties. Each party shall take the oath specified in
Appendix II of this edictum in the request for arbitration or reply
to the request for arbitration.
3. Of Witnesses. Each witness shall take the oath specified in
Appendix II of this edictum before giving evidence.
D. General Powers of the Tribunal
1. The Tribunal shall serve as the court of hearing,
deliberation, and determination of the binding arbitration;
2. Arbitri may query witnesses and examine documents through
the presiding Aedilis Curulis;
3. Arbitri may request the presiding Aedilis Curulis to compel
witnesses to testify under penalty of fine for refusal; no reus
shall be compelled to testify against himself;
4. Arbitri may not deviate from the formula provided by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis;
5. If an arbiter is found to have been corrupted at any stage
of the arbitration, that arbiter shall be dismissed and the
arbitration dismissed;
a. With the agreement of the parties, a new tribunal shall be
empaneled in accordance with I.A.1.f, I.B.1.e, and III.A of this
edictum; uncorrupted arbitri of the previous tribunal may be
empaneled in its successor;
b. The corrupted arbiter shall be prosecuted for perjury and
obstruction of justice.
E. Language of Arbitration
1. The official language of arbitration shall be English;
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall arrange with the Decuria
Interpres for translation into other languages as needed, but no
more than one continuance shall be granted to facilitate procurement
of translation.
F. Advocati
1. Any party to the arbitration may be represented by an
advocatus of his choosing; neither actor nor reus shall be required
to be represented by an advocatus.
2. No advocatus shall be compensated for his services.
G. Hearing
1. The place, date, time of the hearing shall be determined by
the presiding Aedilis Curulis after consultation with the parties
and their advocati. The parties are responsible for ensuring the
presence of witnesses and documentary evidence.
2. The following procedures shall be followed at hearings:
a. The actor and/or his advocatus shall state the claim, the
evidence to be submitted for that claim, and the relief and/or
amount requested.
b. The reus and/or his advocatus shall state the denial of the
claim and the evidence to be submitted for that denial.
c. The actor and/or his adovcatus shall present the evidence
for the claim and relief in the form of witnesses for examination
and cross-examination by the reus and/or his advocatus, the
presiding Aedilis Curulis, or the arbitri, and/or documents
certified to the tribunal by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
d. The reus and/or his adovcatus shall present the evidence
against the claim and relief in the form of witnesses for
examination and cross-examination by the actor and/or his advocatus,
the presiding Aedilis Curulis, or the arbitri, and/or documents
certified to the tribunal by the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
3. Ex parte Communications. No party or witness shall
communicate, except with the permission of the presiding Aedilis
Curulis, with any other party or witness regarding the dispute from
the opening of the hearing until the final determination has been
made.
4. Continuance. The presiding Aedilis Curulis may adjourn and
continue a hearing for a period up to a nundinum at the request of a
party or at his discretion.
5. Waiver and Stipulation. Parties shall have the right to
waive their portion of the procedures of sections VI.G.2 of this
edictum. Parties may stipulate by agreement to facts.
6. Termination by Settlement. If, prior to final determination
and with the consent of the presiding Aedilis Curulis, the parties
agree to settle their dispute outside the arbitration, the tribunal
shall be dismissed and the aribtration terminated. No dispute
terminated by settlement may be resubmitted for arbitration.
H. Deliberation and Determination
1. Upon completion of the hearing, the tribunal shall retire to
deliberate privately. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall accompany
them to rule on points of law and chair their deliberation. Unless
also a arbiter under IV.A.5 of this edictum, the presiding Aedilis
Curulis shall not vote on the final determination of the
arbitration.
2. Determination of the arbitration shall be a vote to accept
or reject (1) the actor's claim and (2) the actor's award in the
formula presented by the presiding Aedilis Curulis. Determination of
the arbitration shall be on preponderance of the evidence by a
majority vote of the arbitri. Abstentions shall be counted as votes
against the claim or award of the actor.
a. If the actor's claim is accepted, the award specified in the
formula must be made in accordance with the formula.
b. The tribunal is not obligated to give an award, even if a
determination has been made, unless otherwise specified in the
formula of the presiding Aedilis Curulis.
3. The determination shall be given to the presiding Aedilis
Curulis for notification of the parties.
I. Award. The amount of award shall be determined by the
tribunal in accordance with the presiding Aedilis Curulis' formula,
but shall not exceed the amount claimed for relief in the request
for arbitration. The award shall be paid from the pignus of the reus
and the pignus of the actor returned. In the event that the pignus
of the reus has been waived by the Aediles Curules, the reus shall
have one nundinum to surrender the appropriate pignus to the
Quaestor of the presiding Aedilis Curulis. A reus who refuses to
surrender the pignus within this time limit shall be subject to
prosecution before the Praetor for fraud and obstruction of justice.
J. Costs and Fines
1. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall recover from the parties
such receipted costs for communications, copying, exhibits, and the
like as are reasonable. a. In the event that a party shall dispute
the recovery, the matter shall be referred to the presiding Aedilis
Curulis' aedlician colleague for decision; his decision shall be
final.
2. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall be empowered to fine any
party or advocatus who violates the procedures of the arbitration.
The fine shall not exceed twenty-five U.S. dollars ($25.00) per
violation.
a. In the event that a party or advocatus shall dispute the
fine, the matter shall be referrerd to the presiding Aedilis
Curulis' aedlician colleague for decision; his decision shall be
final.
b. Fines must be paid within two nundina of their imposition.
Failure to pay a fine will result in prosecution before the Praetor
for obstruction of justice.
3. The presiding Aedilis Curulis shall be empowered to fine any
defaulting party up to the amount of the pignus, as well as awarding
the pignus to the non-defaulting party.
a. In the event that a party dispute the fine, the matter shall
be referrerd to the presiding Aedilis Curulis' aedlician colleague
for decision; his decision shall be final.
b. Fines must be paid within two nundina of their imposition.
Failure to pay a fine will result in prosecution before the Praetor
for obstruction of justice.
K. Exclusion of Liability. The parties shall exclude Nova Roma,
the presiding Aedilis Curulis, and arbitri from any legal liability
arising from the arbitration.
L. Waiver of Defamation. The parties shall agree to waive any
action for defamation arising from sworn testimony or admitted
written evidence in the hearing.
M. Default. A party shall be held in default if that party
fails to follow the procedures directed in this edictum, to provide
requested documents or testimony, or acts to disrupt or evade the
agreed upon arbitration. In the event that a party shall default,
the presiding Aedilis Curulis shall determine that the non-
defaulting party has prevailed and shall award reflief in accordance
with IV.I of this edictum. A defaulting party may be fined by the
presiding Aedilis Curulis.
N. Appeals
1. To Consular or Praetorian Jurisdiction. As a condition of
arbitration, the parties shall agree not to attempt to invoke
consular or praetorian jurisdiction over the arbitration.
2. To Comitia Centuriata. Appeal of a binding arbitration may
be made by either party only to the Comitia Centuriata and only on
grounds of a serious procedural error in the arbitration. The
Comitia Centuriata shall conduct trial as an appellate court in case
of such an appeal.
O. Intercessio
1. Tribunician or superior curule intercessio may be applied to
any procedure in abritration in accordance with the Constitution of
Nova Roma. Such an intercessio shall terminate the aribtration
without prejudice.
2. As a condition of arbitration, the parties shall agree not
to seek tribunician or superior curule intercessio over the
arbitration.
________________________________________
Appendix I
The following text is the agreement to accept binding arbitration
which must be executed by actor and reus in accordance with I.B of
this edictum:
AGREEMENT TO ACCEPT BINDING ARBITRATION
The undersigned party at interest in the matter of
______________________________________________ agrees to submit the
dispute now pending with ________________________________________ to
binding arbitration under the Aedilician Edictum on Binding
Arbitration of Commercial Disputes of Nova Roma.
The party agrees that a tribunal of arbiters appointed by a Aedilis
Curulis of Nova Roma will serve as arbitrators and decide the matter.
The party agrees that the Edictum Aedilicium de Interdicto
Restitutorio per Formulam Arbitrariam of Nova Roma shall govern all
rules of all proceedings related to this arbitration.
The party agrees that the tribunal's award is binding in all
respects upon all parties and may be entered as a final judgment in
any court of competent jurisdiction.
The party agrees that the tribunal shall hear and determine the
controversy on the evidence submitted. The presiding Aedilis Curulis
shall have ultimate responsibility to determine the relevancy and
admissibility of all evidence and to submit the formula. The party
agrees that the hearing and all other procedures will be conducted
in accordance with the Edictum Aedilicium de Interdicto Restitutorio
per Formulam Arbitrariam of Nova Roma. Any party who proceeds
through the arbitration after knowledge that any provision or
requirement of this edictum has not been complied with or fails to
object in writing, shall be deemed to have waived the objection. The
undersigned party agrees that should any party violate this
agreement, that party shall indemnify Nova Roma and the non-
violating party for any and all resulting costs.
This agreement for binding arbitration may be executed in several
counterparts, each of which shall be deemed an original, but all of
which shall be considered one and the same valid and enforceable
agreement.
Actor/Reus:_______________________________________________

Witness:_______________________________________________

Date:_______________________________________________

Presiding Aedilis Curulis:_________________________________________

Date:_______________________________________________
APPENDIX II
The following text is the oath which each arbiter shall take before
undertaking his duties:
I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear to accept the
office of arbiter and perform the duties of that office fairly and
impartially and to accept neither favour nor compensation for my
determination of this arbitration. On my honour as a citizen and in
the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by
their will and favour I undertake this oath. [Arbitri of religions
other than the Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose
presence the oath is undertaken, or if atheist, on his or her honour
alone].
The following text is the oath which a citizen actor shall take in
the request for arbitration:
I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim
I have made in my request for arbitration is true to the best of my
knowledge and that I have made a good-faith effort to resolve the
matter in dispute before requesting arbitration. On my honour as a
citizen and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
people and by their will and favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens
of religions other than the Religio Romana may specify the
deity/deities in whose presence the oath is undertaken, or if
atheist on his or her honour alone].
The following text is the oath which a peregrine actor shall take in
the request for arbitration:
I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I have made
in my request for arbitration is true to the best of my knowledge
and that I have made a good-faith effort to resolve the matter in
dispute before requesting arbitration. On my honour and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people I undertake
this oath. [Peregrines of religions other than the Religio Romana
may specify the deity/deities in whose presence the oath is
undertaken or, if atheist, on his or her honour alone].
The following text is the oath which a citizen reus shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:
I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim
I have made in my reply to the request for arbitration is true to
the best of my knowledge. On my honour as a citizen and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their
will and favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens of religions other
than the Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose
presence the oath is undertaken, or if atheist, on his or her honour
alone].
The following text is the oath which a peregrine reus shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:
I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the claim I have made
in my reply to the request for arbitration is true to the best of my
knowledge. On my honour and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people I undertake this oath. [Peregrines of
religions other than the Religio Romana may specify the
deity/deities in whose presence the oath is undertaken, or if
atheist, on his or her honour alone].
The following text is the oath which a citizen witness shall take in
the reply to the request for arbitration:
I, [legal and Roman names], do hereby solemnly swear that the
evidence I shall give is true and that I have neither received nor
shall receive compensation for my testimony. On my honour as a
citizen and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
people and by their will and favour I undertake this oath. [Citizens
of religions other than the Religio Romana may specify the
deity/deities in whose presence the oath is undertaken, or if
atheist, on his or her honour alone].
The following text is the oath which a peregrine witness shall take
in the reply to the request for arbitration:
I, [legal name], do hereby solemnly swear that the evidence I shall
give is true and that I have neither received nor shall receive
compensation for my testimony. On my honour and in the presence of
the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and
favour I undertake this oath. [Peregrines of religions other than
the Religio Romana may specify the deity/deities in whose presence
the oath is undertaken, or if atheist, on his or her honour alone].


EDICTUM AEDILICIUM DE COMMERCIO IUSTO

Since the establishment of the office of Aedilis Curulis in
antiquity, the Aediles Curules have been charged with maintaining
fair and just business practices within the marketplaces of Roma.
Nova Roman citizens deserve the same assurances of fair dealing as
their fellow Roman citizens of antiquity, and promise of redress in
the event of grievance.
Therefore,
I. Any Nova Roman citizen may seek justice from the Aediles
Curules in the event they feel they have been dealt with unfairly in
any marketplace operating under the authority of Nova Roma.
II. Marketplaces under this edict include world wide web based
businesses operated by members of the Ordo Equester, businesses
operating at sponsored Nova Roma events, and any other business
activity carried out with express knowledge that Nova Roma citizens
are involved, whether by Nova Roma citizens or by associates who
knowingly do business with Nova Roma.
III. The Aediles Curules shall examine charges brought by
citizens, and shall determine whether an investigation into the
charges and specifications is warranted. The Aediles Curules shall
accept complaints only from parties to the instant business
transaction, unless the complainant can show direct financial damage
as result of the failure to meet obligations by a third party (e.g.,
as in a merchant whose supply of product is adversely affected by
the failure of another merchant to meet an obligation to a supplier
upon whom the first merchant depends).
IV. If in the process of investigation a settlement agreeable to
the parties can be reached, the matter will be closed.
V. The Aediles Curules may offer binding arbitration as a
dispute resolution method.
VI. If investigation of a charge reveals probable default of
obligation, no settlement can be reached by the parties, and one or
more of the parties refuses binding arbitration, the Aediles Curules
shall accept a petitio actionis, a formal charge of default of
obligation, from the actor (the complainant) against the reus (the
defendant). The Aediles Curules shall convene an Aedilician Court to
hear arguments from the parties and render a judgment. If the actor
of the petitio actionis shall refuse to appear or present argument,
the actio will be dismissed. If the reus of the petitio actionis
shall refuse to appear or present argument, a default judgment shall
be issued in favour of the actor. The rules of procedure for such
Aedilician Courts shall be those of Lex Salicia Iudiciaria,
excepting that the tribunal of iudices shall consist of the Aediles
Curules and the roles prescribed therein for the praetor shall be
undertaken by the Aediles Curules. The penalties for conviction in
the Aedilician Court shall be specified in the Aediles' formula and
may include:
A. Full restitution of the sought amount or merchandise;
B. Damages not to exceed twice the value of the disputed
merchanise or service;
C. Denial of the privilege of advertising in the Macellum;
D. Request to the Censores for removal from the Ordo Equester;
E. Request to the Censores for a nota affecting other iures
civiles, including honores (the right to hold office) and suffragium
(the right to vote in the Comitia).
Judgments of the Aedilician Court are public records and will be
announced publicly. Judgments of the Aedilician Court shall be
subject to appropriate intercessio and may be appealed to the
Comitia Populi Tributa. Notice of appeal must be given within
seventy-two hours of issue of the judgment.
VII. In cases where a prima facie case for criminal wrongdoing
can be made, the Aediles Curules shall remand the petitio actionis
to the praetores for action under the Lex Salicia Poenalis and, in
those cases where macronational law is involved, to the local civil
authorities.
VIII. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

The Aediles Curules

Given on January 19 2005
Fr Ap Caesare atque G Pop Laene consulibus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32655 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Bellona
M. Arminia Maior T. Sempronio Marcello;
Salve a very interesting goddess ! Really Ma Bellona from the
East Her priests were usually ex-gladiators, who would whip
themselves in a bit of a frenzy she usually shared the temple of
Magna Mater whom she was associated with.
Smith's dictionary should have a nice article on her and I'll
check my materials as well. Beard & North, Scheid et al.
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "titus sempronius marcellus"
<royalspencers@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve,
> I am looking for as much info on the goddess bellona can any one
> help me
> vale
> Titus Sempronius Marcellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32656 From: ancuta loredana Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Minerva
From my own knowledge Minerva was the Godess of wisdom and defender of arts and human activities. I hope i'm right.




Chris <jojobean20@...> wrote:


I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
to national armed defense?

I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
always obvious, so I usually question.

Decimus Iulius Caesar








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32657 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
A. Apollónius Cordus M'. Constantínó Serapióní amícó
omnibusque sal.

> I perfecty understand. My only concern was about the
> possibility of
> troubles with the principle of legal precedence, as
> the Constitution
> explicitly talks about "laws" to mean "leges". I
> wouldn't like the
> use of the term "statute" to create some silly
> quarrel in the
> future. :-)

Yes, I suppose that could be a problem. In the middle
of last year during the constitutional review process
I suggested that we could make the same change in the
constitution too, but no one leapt up and cheered, so
I don't know whether that will happen. :)

I suppose the other option would be to use 'léx'
untranslated to mean 'léx' and allow 'law' to do what
it likes. Not ideal, though. It's a tricky business!





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32658 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: Please ignore my last message
Salve Cordus -
On Jan 19, 2005, at 6:09 PM, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> Yes, I suppose that could be a problem. In the middle
> of last year during the constitutional review process
> I suggested that we could make the same change in the
> constitution too, but no one leapt up and cheered, so
> I don't know whether that will happen. :)

Okay, consider me leaping and cheering! ;-)
Just as long as we're *consistent*.
We really do need to avoid possible confusion.

Vale
- Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32659 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: rome:total war
Hello, I am not Valeria Metella, I am her husband, and I recently bought her Rome:Total War. Unfortunately for my would-be Emperoress, it seems as if my system is not advanced enough to play this game correctly. We installed a new graphics card but this does not seem to be enough. Are there any of you out there playing this game who might be able to give us some advice?
Thanks
Immaculo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32660 From: Craig Jacobs Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: rome:total war
It could be a couple of things. First make sure your processor is fast enough to run the game. The box that the game came in should tell you what the minimum requirement is. Also check on the box for the minimum amount of memory necessary (this is not the same as hard drive storage space). My recommendation would be to get the game going as fast as possible. I have it and I must say it is simply fantastic. You'll be addicted for hours on end.

immaculo@... wrote:
Hello, I am not Valeria Metella, I am her husband, and I recently bought her Rome:Total War. Unfortunately for my would-be Emperoress, it seems as if my system is not advanced enough to play this game correctly. We installed a new graphics card but this does not seem to be enough. Are there any of you out there playing this game who might be able to give us some advice?
Thanks
Immaculo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32661 From: JEAN COLLINS Date: 2005-01-19
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Salve! citizen
I play this game and it needs at least a pentium 4
prossesor f you don't hav it. also, maybe direcxX9
might be missing and maybe more memory
--- immaculo@... wrote:

>
> Hello, I am not Valeria Metella, I am her husband,
> and I recently bought her Rome:Total War.
> Unfortunately for my would-be Emperoress, it seems
> as if my system is not advanced enough to play this
> game correctly. We installed a new graphics card
> but this does not seem to be enough. Are there any
> of you out there playing this game who might be able
> to give us some advice?
>
> Thanks
>
> Immaculo
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
>




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32662 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Okay lets see here new graphics card...what kind? I ask this because this came specifically handles: ATI Radeon 8500, 9000, 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800 and GeForce 3 or higher....I'd recommend 128 mb card or higher but 64mb will pass. That is important with the card. Outside of that Direct X9 and processor are the only options...RAM if it is under 256 would slow it down and kill the game play....512 is overkill (I have 512 and I don't see much of a difference between that and 256. Oh when you get it running don't set army size to huge otherwise unit size is 160 men and a full army with that setting will create major lag in manual warfare mode (which is the beauty of the game).


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32663 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Salve

> Salve! citizen
> I play this game and it needs at least a pentium 4
> prossesor f you don't hav it. also, maybe direcxX9
> might be missing and maybe more memory

Actually, I'm running it (well, the few times I had the time to and before
getting Hearts of Iron 2) on an Athlon 900 with 512 MB of memory and a
Nvidia Geforce2 MX/MX 400 card (yes, all at least 4 years old stuff). Yes,
I had to turn fancy graphics off and limit the number of soldiers
displayed, but it did work (and altho the strategic part is as a-historic
as it can get, I have to admit that wacking the running gauls with your
light roman cavalry is... satisfing).

A bit more description of what the problem is would help (It doesn't start
at all? It crashes? it loads the start screen but not the campaign? It
moves too slow? It doesn't display anything or teh display is twisted?).

Vale

DCF


> --- immaculo@... wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello, I am not Valeria Metella, I am her husband,
>> and I recently bought her Rome:Total War.
>> Unfortunately for my would-be Emperoress, it seems
>> as if my system is not advanced enough to play this
>> game correctly. We installed a new graphics card
>> but this does not seem to be enough. Are there any
>> of you out there playing this game who might be able
>> to give us some advice?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Immaculo
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
>> removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32664 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: sorry test
sorry test



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32666 From: C. Fabia Livia Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
We recently tried this game, and had a bit of trouble
getting it going properly & without computer crashes.
It now works - after installing new graphics drivers &
increasing the virtual memory to 1GB (overkill,
undoubtedly, but it cut out a lot of trial & error!).
That's on a Pentium 4.

Livia






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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32667 From: philipp.hanenberg@web.de Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Minerva -->ATTN: Long answer
M. Flavius Philippus Conservatus Decimo Iulio Caesari omnibusque salutem dicit.

>
>I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
>the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
>included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
>defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
>to national armed defense?
>
>I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
>always obvious, so I usually question.
>
>Decimus Iulius Caesar
>

Minerva (greek. Athene, etrusk. Menrva, Menerva) is an old italian goddess of probably etruscan origin.
With the newer capitolian Trias her cella was to the rightside of the Iuppiter too (Iuno leftside).
Their functions were adapted gradually of the Greek Athene.

She was the protection lady of the craftsmen, artists and teachers.
As Minerva Medica also the physicians adore her in a temple on the Esquilin.
As a city goddess of Rome it had a temple on the Aventin since etruscan time;
in proximity of the Diana sanctuary.

The temple was the main sanctuary of the tradesmen, organized in the collegia.
Augustus renewed it; perhaps even by a new building.
Since this time the goddess possessed also her own Flamen.

A received altar refers to the installation of the Minerva cult by Augustus.
The statue donated by him stood before the temple on a column.
Since the 1.century AD it became the much-mentioned point of reference in military diplomas.
Many of these documents were attached at a wall in the proximity of the statue.
The proximity was meaningful, since numerous veterans established themselves as craftsmen.
Since Nero the congiarium (imperial grain donation) was distributed in the proximity of a Minerva statue
Perhaps it concerned the same statue.

The celebration Quinquatrus on the 19th of March was already in the calendar before Caesar's reform
provided with the additive of the Minerva.
From old calendar notes it is to be seen that the goddess displaced Mars of this day.
The craftsmen celebrated the celebration on the fifth day after the Iden of March and
attached still four further days, so that the ceremonies lasted by 23 March.

This were also the few holidays, which applied to pupils and teachers.
On this day the teaching instructors received their wages.
Ovid stated numerous further occupations, which celebrated Quinquatrus:
Wool spinning and flax spinning women, weavers, fullings, washers, dyeworks,
shoemakers, carpenters, physicians, painters, sculptors,
Toreuten (artist, who chasing and impel metal) as well as poets and actors.

The latters were allowed only since 207 BC to participate in the ceremonies;
as thank saying for a choir song composed of Livius Andronicus to the successful reconciliation of the Gods.

Eastern of Rome a Minerva temple was excavated, which had already existed in the 2nd half of the 6th century BC.
From this temple numerous to life-large terracotta statues were saved from the 4th century BC.
A Minerva image of around 400 BC exhibits particularly awesome views.
A three-headed snake winds itself around the right arm, a many heads counting reptile around its body.
Snakes ruling also helmet and shield, which are supported by a tritonic (sea divinity) Daemon.

The Minerva of Latium was thus connected with the sea.
This showed up also with first lectisternium (God regaling) from 217 v.Chr.,
where she arose together with Neptun.
Minerva had arrived not only by ship to Italy, but with the Argo she had also built the first ship.
Hardly amazingly are therefore representations, which show the goddess in connection with shipbuilding
(particularly with the sails).
It brought further the art of weaving, the building of cars, harrow and plough(plow) to the humans.
Besides she was the deviser of the flute.

Beside Iuppiter and Iuno she also possessed the power to hurl the lightnings.

Contrary to other old divinities in Rome Minerva originally possessed no Flamen (special priest).
This therefore, since the goddess did not have to do anything with the old farmer religion of the natives in Latium.
Thus it does not surprise also that Minerva is brought with only one plant in connection:
the oil tree.
This was only introduced under the Tarquinian into Rome.
Numerous olive oil containers from that time carried the coat of arms of Athens (imported attican quality oil) with Pallas Athene.

After the writer Varro the goddess was taken over (with a number of others) by the Sabinian.

In oldest time the war God Mars had with the nearly unknown goddess Nerio a cult partner.
Their name was overlaid soon by Minerva and corresponded from now on to the Greek counterpart Ares/Athene.
This displacement must have already happened in archaic time.

Despite all wisdom in such a way Minerva remained particularly awesome views
(e.g. one, if one got her unjustified to face, went blind)

Minerva was like Diana a virgin goddess (greek Athena Parthenos) and punished all merciless,
which stepped too close to this virginity.
In one of men dominated religion Minerva had an important role for women.
Numerous finds suggest female puberty rites.
In this sense it was awake also over right and order.

The proximity to work relating to crafts and artistic owes the introduction to Minerva into numerous Lararien.
Carved copies might have preceded the bronze and silver figurine of the imperial era,
in the republic from wood (possibly oil tree).



Bene vale et valete
Conservatus
______________________________________________________________
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32668 From: J Auger Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Bellona
Salve,

She was a Roman goddess of war. Bellona has been identified with Enyo, the Greek goddess of war. Her originally name was Duellona.

Bellona had sometimes been described as a sister or wife of Mars (Ares). Whatever her relationship with Mars, she rode in a chariot with Mars and Discordia (Eris), goddess of strife, during the time of war.

Her temple was outside the city gates, in Campus Martius. Her festival was celebrated on June 3.

Enyo
Enyo was the Greek goddess of war, and she was equivalent to the Roman Bellona. She has no mythology of her own, and was probably only a personification of war. Her name appeared in the Iliad, where she rides into battle on a chariot with Ares, god of war. Originally, she may have being a Minoan war goddess in Bronze Age Crete.
This information can be found at:

www.timelessmyths.com/classical/roman.html

Vale,

Gallus Cassius Augurius


titus sempronius marcellus <royalspencers@...> wrote:


Salve,
I am looking for as much info on the goddess bellona can any one
help me
vale
Titus Sempronius Marcellus








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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32669 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: rome:total war
my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible. I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
Thanks,
Valeria Metella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32670 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: PLEASE OBSERVE: Edictum Censoris CFQ XXVII about the emancipation o
Ex Officio Censoris Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani


Edictum Censoris CFQ XXVII about the emancipation of Nova Roma
citizens and the date 29th of January

The important date of January 29th is approaching, this will have a
profound effect on the citizens of Nova Roma as the family leges will
be in full effect. This edictum is issued to make the choices clear
to all citizens before the 29th of January.

I. Citizens have until January 29th to emancipate themselves and
retain their full legal competence and "sui iuris" status.

II. "Sui Iuris" indicates majority, rights and privileges of an adult
citizen that has attained full legal competence in Nova Roma, the
rights and privileges all our citizens are currently enjoying.

III. If citizens do not emancipate themselves before January 29th
they will then lose their full legal competence and become legal
minors "alieni iuris". These citizens will be under the power of the
Pater or Mater familias of their present familia (probably their
former gens head) just like a minor child. The Pater or Mater
Familias may punish them, may forbid them to marry, may prevent them
from doing business in the Macellum or with other Nova Roma citizens
according the law of Nova Roma and inside its limits. Other losses of
rights are detailed in paragraph IV of Lex Equitia de Familia

IV. Though citizens who are "alieni iuris" may run for office and
vote, all citizens of Nova Roma are advised to emancipate themselves
before the date of January 29th.

V. Domus and adoptions. Those that write to the Censor's office
before January 29th to join their Paterfamilias's domus may do this.
This means that they will bear the nomen and cognomen of their
present Gens Pater or Materfamilias (who will become the Pater or
Mater familias of their own familia after the 29th of January), but
will not fall under their potestas. They will be "sui iuris" and
regarded as very close relatives, akin to cousins, siblings, uncles
and aunts.

VI. Please also observe that it is still possible to write to the
Censor's' office before January 29th to emancipate and become the
Pater or Mater familias of a familia of one's own familia. This seem
to be the choice of most of our citizens.

VII. Familia and adoptions. After the date above all citizens who
haven't emancipated themselves will need to petition the Praetores to
emancipate themselves. If they don't emancipate themselves they will
by law have to take the nomen and cognomen of their (former Gens)
Mater and Pater familias and add it to their name to show their legal
position. They will become the legal child of the Pater or
Materfamilias. They will lose their "sui iuris" status and become
"alieni iuris" with all that that means and be under the "postestas"
(power) of their Pater or Mater familas.

VIII. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given the 20th of January, in the year of the Consulship of
Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas, 2758 AUC.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32671 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:


Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for the game.


Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from the manufacturers' websites.


Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select Properties.
2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.

For Windows XP and 2000:
1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
2) Double-click the Display icon.
3) Click the Settings tab.
4) Click the Advanced button.
5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.


All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the game.

immaculo@... wrote:
my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible. I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
Thanks,
Valeria Metella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32672 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Minerva -->ATTN: Long answer
Salve,

That was a very interesting read. I thank all who have responded.
I have learned a lot about Minerva from the participation of Nova
Romans and independent studies. Considering I'm into the art,
Minerva seems to be an adequate patron Goddess. I also learn how
the owl is connected to wisdom, do to her being wise and her animal
symbol being the owl. Pretty fascinating that some Roman cultural
values still survive today in very obscure forms. I thank you all
again. Have a great day.

Vale,
Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <philipp.hanenberg@w...> wrote:
> M. Flavius Philippus Conservatus Decimo Iulio Caesari omnibusque
salutem dicit.
>
> >
> >I've been doing a little research on Minerva. Considering she is
> >the Goddess of wisdom and defense, what defense would be
> >included? Would she grant spiritual defense and/or physical
> >defense such as muggings and assaults or is this just relgated
> >to national armed defense?
> >
> >I know perhaps a stupid question, but some answers aren't
> >always obvious, so I usually question.
> >
> >Decimus Iulius Caesar
> >
>
> Minerva (greek. Athene, etrusk. Menrva, Menerva) is an old italian
goddess of probably etruscan origin.
> With the newer capitolian Trias her cella was to the rightside of
the Iuppiter too (Iuno leftside).
> Their functions were adapted gradually of the Greek Athene.
>
> She was the protection lady of the craftsmen, artists and teachers.
> As Minerva Medica also the physicians adore her in a temple on the
Esquilin.
> As a city goddess of Rome it had a temple on the Aventin since
etruscan time;
> in proximity of the Diana sanctuary.
>
> The temple was the main sanctuary of the tradesmen, organized in
the collegia.
> Augustus renewed it; perhaps even by a new building.
> Since this time the goddess possessed also her own Flamen.
>
> A received altar refers to the installation of the Minerva cult by
Augustus.
> The statue donated by him stood before the temple on a column.
> Since the 1.century AD it became the much-mentioned point of
reference in military diplomas.
> Many of these documents were attached at a wall in the proximity
of the statue.
> The proximity was meaningful, since numerous veterans established
themselves as craftsmen.
> Since Nero the congiarium (imperial grain donation) was
distributed in the proximity of a Minerva statue
> Perhaps it concerned the same statue.
>
> The celebration Quinquatrus on the 19th of March was already in
the calendar before Caesar's reform
> provided with the additive of the Minerva.
> From old calendar notes it is to be seen that the goddess
displaced Mars of this day.
> The craftsmen celebrated the celebration on the fifth day after
the Iden of March and
> attached still four further days, so that the ceremonies lasted by
23 March.
>
> This were also the few holidays, which applied to pupils and
teachers.
> On this day the teaching instructors received their wages.
> Ovid stated numerous further occupations, which celebrated
Quinquatrus:
> Wool spinning and flax spinning women, weavers, fullings, washers,
dyeworks,
> shoemakers, carpenters, physicians, painters, sculptors,
> Toreuten (artist, who chasing and impel metal) as well as poets
and actors.
>
> The latters were allowed only since 207 BC to participate in the
ceremonies;
> as thank saying for a choir song composed of Livius Andronicus to
the successful reconciliation of the Gods.
>
> Eastern of Rome a Minerva temple was excavated, which had already
existed in the 2nd half of the 6th century BC.
> From this temple numerous to life-large terracotta statues were
saved from the 4th century BC.
> A Minerva image of around 400 BC exhibits particularly awesome
views.
> A three-headed snake winds itself around the right arm, a many
heads counting reptile around its body.
> Snakes ruling also helmet and shield, which are supported by a
tritonic (sea divinity) Daemon.
>
> The Minerva of Latium was thus connected with the sea.
> This showed up also with first lectisternium (God regaling) from
217 v.Chr.,
> where she arose together with Neptun.
> Minerva had arrived not only by ship to Italy, but with the Argo
she had also built the first ship.
> Hardly amazingly are therefore representations, which show the
goddess in connection with shipbuilding
> (particularly with the sails).
> It brought further the art of weaving, the building of cars,
harrow and plough(plow) to the humans.
> Besides she was the deviser of the flute.
>
> Beside Iuppiter and Iuno she also possessed the power to hurl the
lightnings.
>
> Contrary to other old divinities in Rome Minerva originally
possessed no Flamen (special priest).
> This therefore, since the goddess did not have to do anything with
the old farmer religion of the natives in Latium.
> Thus it does not surprise also that Minerva is brought with only
one plant in connection:
> the oil tree.
> This was only introduced under the Tarquinian into Rome.
> Numerous olive oil containers from that time carried the coat of
arms of Athens (imported attican quality oil) with Pallas Athene.
>
> After the writer Varro the goddess was taken over (with a number
of others) by the Sabinian.
>
> In oldest time the war God Mars had with the nearly unknown
goddess Nerio a cult partner.
> Their name was overlaid soon by Minerva and corresponded from now
on to the Greek counterpart Ares/Athene.
> This displacement must have already happened in archaic time.
>
> Despite all wisdom in such a way Minerva remained particularly
awesome views
> (e.g. one, if one got her unjustified to face, went blind)
>
> Minerva was like Diana a virgin goddess (greek Athena Parthenos)
and punished all merciless,
> which stepped too close to this virginity.
> In one of men dominated religion Minerva had an important role for
women.
> Numerous finds suggest female puberty rites.
> In this sense it was awake also over right and order.
>
> The proximity to work relating to crafts and artistic owes the
introduction to Minerva into numerous Lararien.
> Carved copies might have preceded the bronze and silver figurine
of the imperial era,
> in the republic from wood (possibly oil tree).
>
>
>
> Bene vale et valete
> Conservatus
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32673 From: Chris Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32674 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
AHHHHHH

actually, the CTD on tutorial is a known event. Make sure you have the
latest patch for the game and the latest driver for the graphic card. Try
to play the campaign game, if it happens again, then you have a problem
for real. I do not think the Direct X is the problem, tho, as they are
backward compatible (which means, if your computer can handle 9.0c, it can
handle 9.0b).

vale (and good luck)

DCF

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:10:11 -0500, <immaculo@...> wrote:

> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she read the
> box.)
> She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is running 9.0c. She said
> that she
> didn't think they are compatible. I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer
> is
> still running c. She didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that
> we may
> have to do a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
> computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I haven't
> played many)
> so I started with the tutorial. It plays until it moves you to the
> battle then
> it quits-cuts the game off entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow,
> but I
> think it moves just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays,
> everything is
> beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32675 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Oh!! You guys should not even mention Star Wars Battlefront. My husband will have to go get it (he wants it) and it won't matter if Rome will play because I'll never get the chance. (Ha Ha) We're running windows xp and I'm pretty sure it's a Pentium 4. So I believe the we meet the requirements. I have to wait for him to come home before I try to change any settings. Did you say that you had star wars for the x box? If so, that may save me. He can play on it.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war




Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32676 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
No PC and it is great...Be the Empire (always liked the bad guys :) what kinda graphics crad do you have though? What exactly is the brand and series number? I listed off the necessary one so if it isn't one of those the game will not work or will have serious problems...

immaculo@... wrote:
Oh!! You guys should not even mention Star Wars Battlefront. My husband will have to go get it (he wants it) and it won't matter if Rome will play because I'll never get the chance. (Ha Ha) We're running windows xp and I'm pretty sure it's a Pentium 4. So I believe the we meet the requirements. I have to wait for him to come home before I try to change any settings. Did you say that you had star wars for the x box? If so, that may save me. He can play on it.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war




Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




---------------------------------
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All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32677 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
I know that it is a nvidia card but I'm not sure about the rest. It was an
extra card that she had. She built her computer from the ground up. Like I
said, she did read the box and said it would work. She didn't tell me
anything about the card, she just put it in. But, when she was talking
about doing the factory restore she gave me a website so that I could make
the card work again. I'll go to that site and see if I can get some info on
it. She's too hard to track down sometimes.-Thanks
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war



No PC and it is great...Be the Empire (always liked the bad guys :) what
kinda graphics crad do you have though? What exactly is the brand and
series number? I listed off the necessary one so if it isn't one of those
the game will not work or will have serious problems...

immaculo@... wrote:
Oh!! You guys should not even mention Star Wars Battlefront. My husband
will have to go get it (he wants it) and it won't matter if Rome will play
because I'll never get the chance. (Ha Ha) We're running windows xp and I'm
pretty sure it's a Pentium 4. So I believe the we meet the requirements. I
have to wait for him to come home before I try to change any settings. Did
you say that you had star wars for the x box? If so, that may save me. He
can play on it.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war




Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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---------------------------------
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All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32678 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
hmmm....well Nvidia GeForce 3 or better is needed...so try and find exactly what it is....I am assuming the PC was built somewhat recently with all new parts so I don't understand how it could not be a 3 series or better...it seems the graphics card is the problem and nothing else (from what I'm getting)....find out exactly what it is, how many mb the card is, and check for latest drivers for that specific card....I think in there you'll find a solution to this problem so you can starting to build your empire :) PS be the Julii
Gn Iulius Caesar Cornelianus

immaculo@... wrote:

I know that it is a nvidia card but I'm not sure about the rest. It was an
extra card that she had. She built her computer from the ground up. Like I
said, she did read the box and said it would work. She didn't tell me
anything about the card, she just put it in. But, when she was talking
about doing the factory restore she gave me a website so that I could make
the card work again. I'll go to that site and see if I can get some info on
it. She's too hard to track down sometimes.-Thanks
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war



No PC and it is great...Be the Empire (always liked the bad guys :) what
kinda graphics crad do you have though? What exactly is the brand and
series number? I listed off the necessary one so if it isn't one of those
the game will not work or will have serious problems...

immaculo@... wrote:
Oh!! You guys should not even mention Star Wars Battlefront. My husband
will have to go get it (he wants it) and it won't matter if Rome will play
because I'll never get the chance. (Ha Ha) We're running windows xp and I'm
pretty sure it's a Pentium 4. So I believe the we meet the requirements. I
have to wait for him to come home before I try to change any settings. Did
you say that you had star wars for the x box? If so, that may save me. He
can play on it.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war




Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
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All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links














---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32679 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Well I went to the website and found out nothing. I don't even know how I would reinstall it if I did have to do a factory restore. Can I found out what it is through my computer? I mean will it say what kind of card it is? The pc is about 4 years old. when I first got the game and installed it the first time it wouldn't play at all, it just acted like it was in slow motion and it came in blocks of graphics. After she installed the new card it seemed like it was alright, until the battle scene. And it seems to me maybe she didn't give me drivers for it and that is why she said if I did the restore to go to the website. Anyway it was something like that. Oh, by the way, I do appreciate your help.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war


hmmm....well Nvidia GeForce 3 or better is needed...so try and find exactly what it is....I am assuming the PC was built somewhat recently with all new parts so I don't understand how it could not be a 3 series or better...it seems the graphics card is the problem and nothing else (from what I'm getting)....find out exactly what it is, how many mb the card is, and check for latest drivers for that specific card....I think in there you'll find a solution to this problem so you can starting to build your empire :) PS be the Julii
Gn Iulius Caesar Cornelianus

immaculo@... wrote:

I know that it is a nvidia card but I'm not sure about the rest. It was an
extra card that she had. She built her computer from the ground up. Like I
said, she did read the box and said it would work. She didn't tell me
anything about the card, she just put it in. But, when she was talking
about doing the factory restore she gave me a website so that I could make
the card work again. I'll go to that site and see if I can get some info on
it. She's too hard to track down sometimes.-Thanks
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war



No PC and it is great...Be the Empire (always liked the bad guys :) what
kinda graphics crad do you have though? What exactly is the brand and
series number? I listed off the necessary one so if it isn't one of those
the game will not work or will have serious problems...

immaculo@... wrote:
Oh!! You guys should not even mention Star Wars Battlefront. My husband
will have to go get it (he wants it) and it won't matter if Rome will play
because I'll never get the chance. (Ha Ha) We're running windows xp and I'm
pretty sure it's a Pentium 4. So I believe the we meet the requirements. I
have to wait for him to come home before I try to change any settings. Did
you say that you had star wars for the x box? If so, that may save me. He
can play on it.
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: rome:total war




Rome: Total War, very well made game. I'm a big freak about micro-
managing aspects in civilization games like Civilization Call to
Power, Rise of Nations and Pharoah. Rome has all of that, managing
your cities and waging war. SO very challenging to manage both. I
love it. Graphically it's beautiful. Activision did a great job
with this game

I play mine on my laptop, which is a 1.o Ghz Celeron processor with
a 32 MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with about 256 MB of RAM. It works
fine. Hell, even Rise of Nations works better on this than my 1.8
Ghz Pentium 4 desktop.

Star Wars Battlefront, that game is also addictive, I have that for
XBox. I played that game for a whole weekend when I first I got it.

Decimus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
<julius_cornelianus@y...> wrote:
> I have Star Wars Battlefront which uses DX9C and I can still run
RTW. Can you say what your settings are at for RTW? Have you tried
tweaking them to see if they are running too high for your PC? Also
looking up troubleshooting on Activision I found this:
>
>
> Make sure the computer meets the minimum system requirements for
the game.
>
>
> Make sure you have the latest video and sound card drivers from
the manufacturers' websites.
>
>
> Make sure the 3D hardware acceleration is turned all the way up.
> 1) Right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop and select
Properties.
> 2) Select the Performance tab and click the Graphics button.
> 3) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
> For Windows XP and 2000:
> 1) Click on the Start button > Settings > Control Panel.
> 2) Double-click the Display icon.
> 3) Click the Settings tab.
> 4) Click the Advanced button.
> 5) Click the Troubleshoot tab.
> 6) Make sure the acceleration slider is set to Full.
>
>
> All background applications must be shutdown prior to running the
game.
>
> immaculo@b... wrote:
> my friend that installed the card said that it would work (she
read the box.) She said it may be directx 9.0b. My computer is
running 9.0c. She said that she didn't think they are compatible.
I downloaded the 9.0b but, my computer is still running c. She
didn't know how to override 9.0c and told me that we may have to do
a factory restore to install b. Although, I know nothing about
computers, my friend seems to think other than that it should run.
> now, more on what it is doing. I like to start games easy (I
haven't played many) so I started with the tutorial. It plays until
it moves you to the battle then it quits-cuts the game off
entirely. My husband thinks it moves slow, but I think it moves
just like Diablo II. It plays great while it plays, everything is
beautiful, and it just shuts down entirely.
> Thanks,
> Valeria Metella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
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>
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32680 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Salve

> hmmm....well Nvidia GeForce 3 or better is needed...so try and find
> exactly what
> it is....

Again, I'm running it (with details down and small units) with a geforce2
and with a all around 4 years old computer...

Vale

DCF
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32681 From: Quintus Servilius Fidenas Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Salve,

I wish they would port this to Mac OSX! The best Mac Roman game I can
find is Legion from Freeverse. Here is the link for it(there is a link
on the page for the Official Legion site
also): http://www.freeverse.com/legion/

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Fidenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32682 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
thats what I meant by running into problems....if you had the think kicked up more you'd probably hit lag in battle when you had two massive armies going toe to toe.

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus <dom.con.fus@...> wrote:
Salve

> hmmm....well Nvidia GeForce 3 or better is needed...so try and find
> exactly what
> it is....

Again, I'm running it (with details down and small units) with a geforce2
and with a all around 4 years old computer...

Vale

DCF





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32683 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Emancipation
M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;

Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to

Please Emancipate Yourselves

it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
mater.

"I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"

so for example mine looks like:

" I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"

If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
others are too.
bene valete in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32684 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
immaculo@... wrote:
> Well I went to the website and found out nothing.

Salve, Valeria Metella.

(For all links below, if they get mangled in transition, please attempt
to reconstruct the URLs. Generally, all you have to do is concatenate
two or more consecutive lines of text. Not too hard.)

Try downloading and installing the two patches/upgrades below:

http://download.activision.com/activision/totalwar/downloads/RomeTW_1.1_Patch.exe
http://download.activision.com/rtcw/RTW_Kit.zip

And the quicktime movie viewer:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

And the latest nVidia drivers:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_66.93

And the latest DirectX-drivers:

www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/downloads/default.asp

If all of those are installed properly, and the game STILL doesn't work,
go to the retailer and whack him over his head with the game and demand
a replacement.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32685 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
----- Original Message -----
From: Maior
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation



M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;

Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to

Please Emancipate Yourselves

it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
mater.

"I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"

so for example mine looks like:

" I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"

If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
others are too.
bene valete in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32686 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves? I've missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to what is going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
Valeria Metella
----- Original Message -----
From: Maior
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation



M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;

Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to

Please Emancipate Yourselves

it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
mater.

"I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"

so for example mine looks like:

" I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"

If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
others are too.
bene valete in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32687 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
Kristoffer From wrote:
> Try downloading and installing the two patches/upgrades below:
>
> http://download.activision.com/rtcw/RTW_Kit.zip

Salve iterum,

Ignore this one. It's apparently a "Fan Site Kit" with pictures and
things, and not at all relevant to the actual game.

The other Activision download, though, is very useful.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32688 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salva Valeria Metella -

Gladly!
In short, our current Gens system is unhistorical: You join a Gens and
are considered somehow vaguely related but nothing is spelled out.
Last year we passed a Law that brings us closer to actual Roman
practice.
If you stay as you are, you will be considered legally under you Mater
or Paterfamilias' jurisdiction and they have legal rights and
responsibilities over you: Essentially, you fall under their "potestas"
like in Ancient Rome. In effect you are treated as their "child".

If you emancipate yourself, you are declaring yourself an independent
adult and "sui iuris" - legally responsible for yourself, with full
rights and responsibilities of an adult Citizen. You become
Materfamilias of your own domos or "Familia" - head of your own
household.

So do go ahead and send in an Emancipation notice! Otherwise your
legal status will be that of a child under your Gens parent's control.

Vale bene
- Troianus
On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:40 PM, <immaculo@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves? I've
> missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to what is
> going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
> Valeria Metella
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
>
>
>
> M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;
>
> Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
> Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to
>
> Please Emancipate Yourselves
>
> it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
> mater.
>
> "I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
> mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"
>
> so for example mine looks like:
>
> " I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
> the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"
>
> If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
> type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
> 29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
> Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
> emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.
>
> If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
> others are too.
> bene valete in pace deorum
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> Propraetrix Hiberniae
> caput Officina Iuriis
> et Investigatio CFQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32689 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
This very idea is insanity. To ask everyone to emancipate themselves is chaotic and is also counterproductive. It serves no good in Nova Roma to have every citizen who is currently considered alieni iuris to emancipate themselves to "retain their full legal competence and sui iuris status." What is the end result of this? What will happen in Nova Roma as a result of mass emancipation?

The end result is the dissolving of each familia. Any familia that currently exists will be dissolved. Each individual member of a familia will cease to be a member of that familia. They then will go on to be a mater/pater of their own familia. But what are they to be head of? No one will be in their potestas. Being of alienis iuris status you have certain benefits afforded you that your mater/pater does not have. Being in that individuals potestas affords you a certain protection. Its your mater/pater who pays the price for your wrongs and liabilities. Not you. But you have just as much freedom as they do. For those who seek an active life in Nova Roma in the political arena: "IV. Though citizens who are alieni iuris may run for office and vote..."

The familia is the basic building block in Nova Roma. Where people can first come to meet members of their own familia. They can also start their to meet their fellow familia members and expand elsewhere to meet cives. This leads to the development of friendships and adds enjoyment to the experience here in Nova Roma. This mass emancipation proposal is just downright farsical. What is to be accomplsihed by urging citzens to claim their sui iuris status? It's going to created many new mater's/pater's of nothing.

I hope the citzens out there of alieni iuris staus don't just jump at the idea of emancipation. Unless you truly wish to be the mater/pater of your own familia don't waste your time. There is no great benefit in being emancipated. You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as anyone of sui iuris status) and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status). There is no need for this urge for everyone to emancipate themselves.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32690 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: rome:total war
There's only one patch out right now. It mainly affects Multiplayer play. A larger singleplayer patch is going to be coming out (hopefully soon).

Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:Kristoffer From wrote:
> Try downloading and installing the two patches/upgrades below:
>
> http://download.activision.com/rtcw/RTW_Kit.zip

Salve iterum,

Ignore this one. It's apparently a "Fan Site Kit" with pictures and
things, and not at all relevant to the actual game.

The other Activision download, though, is very useful.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.



---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

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Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32691 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
O.K., so all I have to do is write the Censors and my current paterfamilias and declare myself the paterfamilias of the family Valeria Metella?
----- Original Message -----
From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation


Salva Valeria Metella -

Gladly!
In short, our current Gens system is unhistorical: You join a Gens and
are considered somehow vaguely related but nothing is spelled out.
Last year we passed a Law that brings us closer to actual Roman
practice.
If you stay as you are, you will be considered legally under you Mater
or Paterfamilias' jurisdiction and they have legal rights and
responsibilities over you: Essentially, you fall under their "potestas"
like in Ancient Rome. In effect you are treated as their "child".

If you emancipate yourself, you are declaring yourself an independent
adult and "sui iuris" - legally responsible for yourself, with full
rights and responsibilities of an adult Citizen. You become
Materfamilias of your own domos or "Familia" - head of your own
household.

So do go ahead and send in an Emancipation notice! Otherwise your
legal status will be that of a child under your Gens parent's control.

Vale bene
- Troianus
On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:40 PM, <immaculo@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves? I've
> missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to what is
> going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
> Valeria Metella
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
>
>
>
> M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;
>
> Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
> Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to
>
> Please Emancipate Yourselves
>
> it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
> mater.
>
> "I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
> mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"
>
> so for example mine looks like:
>
> " I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
> the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"
>
> If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
> type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
> 29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
> Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
> emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.
>
> If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
> others are too.
> bene valete in pace deorum
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> Propraetrix Hiberniae
> caput Officina Iuriis
> et Investigatio CFQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32692 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve;
exactly.

In answer to you Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, every civis right
now is free 'sui iuris' there are no 'alieni iuris' citizens unless
they are children.
If people want to stay in the Domus of your gens paterfamilias Gn.
Iulius Caesar they can, they may have longstanding relationships, but
that is not the case with our new cives.
With returning to the ways of Republican Rome we are that much
closer in Nova Roma to making it reality.
That's the norm as Nova Roma matures. A number of our cives are
having children. Many are couples. I think it's wonderful that we are
recognizing this.
bene vale in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP


- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> O.K., so all I have to do is write the Censors and my current
paterfamilias and declare myself the paterfamilias of the family
Valeria Metella?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
>
>
> Salva Valeria Metella -
>
> Gladly!
> In short, our current Gens system is unhistorical: You join a
Gens and
> are considered somehow vaguely related but nothing is spelled out.
> Last year we passed a Law that brings us closer to actual Roman
> practice.
> If you stay as you are, you will be considered legally under you
Mater
> or Paterfamilias' jurisdiction and they have legal rights and
> responsibilities over you: Essentially, you fall under
their "potestas"
> like in Ancient Rome. In effect you are treated as their "child".
>
> If you emancipate yourself, you are declaring yourself an
independent
> adult and "sui iuris" - legally responsible for yourself, with
full
> rights and responsibilities of an adult Citizen. You become
> Materfamilias of your own domos or "Familia" - head of your own
> household.
>
> So do go ahead and send in an Emancipation notice! Otherwise
your
> legal status will be that of a child under your Gens parent's
control.
>
> Vale bene
> - Troianus
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:40 PM, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves?
I've
> > missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to
what is
> > going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
> > Valeria Metella
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Maior
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
> >
> >
> >
> > M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;
> >
> > Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
> > Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to
> >
> > Please Emancipate Yourselves
> >
> > it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens
pater or
> > mater.
> >
> > "I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
> > mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"
> >
> > so for example mine looks like:
> >
> > " I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare
myself
> > the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"
> >
> > If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a
cousin-
> > type relationship. You can do so but you have only until
January
> > 29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to
the
> > Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You
need to
> > emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on
the ML.
> >
> > If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus
and many
> > others are too.
> > bene valete in pace deorum
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> > Propraetrix Hiberniae
> > caput Officina Iuriis
> > et Investigatio CFQ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > -------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32693 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Then that was my error in terminology but either way declaring emancipation amounts to dissolving each familia to have people become a mater/pater of nothing. No one will be in their potestas its ridiculous.

Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
Salve;
exactly.

In answer to you Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, every civis right
now is free 'sui iuris' there are no 'alieni iuris' citizens unless
they are children.
If people want to stay in the Domus of your gens paterfamilias Gn.
Iulius Caesar they can, they may have longstanding relationships, but
that is not the case with our new cives.
With returning to the ways of Republican Rome we are that much
closer in Nova Roma to making it reality.
That's the norm as Nova Roma matures. A number of our cives are
having children. Many are couples. I think it's wonderful that we are
recognizing this.
bene vale in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP


- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> O.K., so all I have to do is write the Censors and my current
paterfamilias and declare myself the paterfamilias of the family
Valeria Metella?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
>
>
> Salva Valeria Metella -
>
> Gladly!
> In short, our current Gens system is unhistorical: You join a
Gens and
> are considered somehow vaguely related but nothing is spelled out.
> Last year we passed a Law that brings us closer to actual Roman
> practice.
> If you stay as you are, you will be considered legally under you
Mater
> or Paterfamilias' jurisdiction and they have legal rights and
> responsibilities over you: Essentially, you fall under
their "potestas"
> like in Ancient Rome. In effect you are treated as their "child".
>
> If you emancipate yourself, you are declaring yourself an
independent
> adult and "sui iuris" - legally responsible for yourself, with
full
> rights and responsibilities of an adult Citizen. You become
> Materfamilias of your own domos or "Familia" - head of your own
> household.
>
> So do go ahead and send in an Emancipation notice! Otherwise
your
> legal status will be that of a child under your Gens parent's
control.
>
> Vale bene
> - Troianus
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:40 PM, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves?
I've
> > missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to
what is
> > going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
> > Valeria Metella
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Maior
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
> >
> >
> >
> > M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;
> >
> > Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
> > Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to
> >
> > Please Emancipate Yourselves
> >
> > it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens
pater or
> > mater.
> >
> > "I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
> > mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"
> >
> > so for example mine looks like:
> >
> > " I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare
myself
> > the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"
> >
> > If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a
cousin-
> > type relationship. You can do so but you have only until
January
> > 29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to
the
> > Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You
need to
> > emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on
the ML.
> >
> > If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus
and many
> > others are too.
> > bene valete in pace deorum
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> > Propraetrix Hiberniae
> > caput Officina Iuriis
> > et Investigatio CFQ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > -------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32694 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Gn. Iulio Caesari Corneliano spd;

no problem with that error. Now back to the issue well you can be
the pater/mater of your children, they are in your potestas and if
you are married cum manu then your wife would be in your potestas.
So children and wives can be in someone's power: potestas. I'm not
sure if husbands and partners can;) Will check that.

And as I said those who have a real closeness and friendship to
their gens mater/pater can elect to remain in that Domus.

I am actually in a bit of a pickle myself being adopted into the gens
Arminia, if I remain I'll be part of the domus of M. Arminius Maior.
No I have no intention of inflicting myself on poor Maior as he
doesn't know me;-) also Cordus pointed out to me I might have a duty
and liability for the other members of the Domus under V.C.3 of the
Lex Salicia Poenalis.
so I hope this is helpful, I'm glad above all
we're having a discussion.
bene vale
M. Arminia Maior TRP



wrote:
> Then that was my error in terminology but either way declaring
emancipation amounts to dissolving each familia to have people become
a mater/pater of nothing. No one will be in their potestas its
ridiculous.
>
> Maior <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32695 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

I have a real problem with the current "Gens" reform. I created Gens Modia.
I brought Gens Modia to life with a clear vision. I intended Gens Modia to
be for Roman/Hellenic Polytheists, and for them ONLY. While I have many
Christian friends in Nova Roma, whom I deeply respect and care about, they are
not welcome in Gens Modia. Gens Modia is for the Gods.

This vision of Gens Modia is gone. Anyone can now become a Modia, even if
they are an atheist.

I am very much apposed to this. The Modia are a community among themselves.
I have heard all the arguments against the old system, and I do not accept
them. I have even been tempted to leave Gens Modia and encourage others
within the Gens to do the same, as I would rather the Gens disappear than to be
tarnished by having people in the Gens who do not share the vision that
created it.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius
Pater Familias -- Gens Modia

In a message dated 1/20/2005 5:48:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:

Salve;
exactly.

In answer to you Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, every civis right
now is free 'sui iuris' there are no 'alieni iuris' citizens unless
they are children.
If people want to stay in the Domus of your gens paterfamilias Gn.
Iulius Caesar they can, they may have longstanding relationships, but
that is not the case with our new cives.
With returning to the ways of Republican Rome we are that much
closer in Nova Roma to making it reality.
That's the norm as Nova Roma matures. A number of our cives are
having children. Many are couples. I think it's wonderful that we are
recognizing this.
bene vale in pace deorum
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32696 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso Corneliano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Iulius Cornelianus, it is most definitely *not* "ridiculous".

The basis of Roman civil law was the familia, a group consisting of a
head, the paterfamilias, and his descendants in the male line. Free
members and slaves, all under the guardianship and control of the
paterfamilias, were also part of the familia. Free members were the
wives, unmarried children (biological and adopted) and other
dependents. The members of the familia had no voice in the Curiae, yet
they were subject to its decisions and laws, as well as to the
decisions made on the family level by the patriarch.

The formal head of the legally recognized family, the paterfamilias,
was the oldest surviving male ascendant, and his authority over his
descendants lasted until his death, unless formally resolved by a
legal act. He was the anchor of the family, the decision maker, and
the financial manager. Women, children, and slaves had a very inferior
status. They had a constant awareness of his power and position. Every
member of the familia was in the potestas of the paterfamilias. The
virtually absolute power of the paterfamilias over the rest of his
household may have been necessary or desirable in early days when the
state had no regular courts or police force and did not involve itself
in private morality. The father of the Roman family had the power over
everyone and everything in the home. This power was legally
recognized. If any member of the family behaved in any way that he
considered exceeding the boundaries of proper behavior he had the
power to punish the offender with harsh sentences such as banishment,
slavery, and death. This power extended to the man's slaves and tenant
farmers as well. Only the paterfamilias had the right before law to
buy, sell, or hold property. He owned, as agent and trustee, all the
property of the extended family and held absolute power over persons
within his household. As long as the paterfamilias was alive, the sons
could not own property or have legal authority over their own
children. Though the paterfamilias had the authority to do all of
these things, if he inflicted terrible punishment or wasted family
property, his reputation would be ruined. Sometimes a father would let
his son go on to rule his own family. Upon the paterfamilia's death,
each of the sons became rulers of their own households.

Technically, legally, if a citizen is under the potestas of their
pater-/materfamilias, they could be refused permission to do just
about anything, including but not limited to speaking in the Forum or
running for office. You are correct that the *family* was the
backbone of Roman life; it was the family, *not* the gens. Nova Roman
law is now coming closer to that state, a closer identification with
the social system of the ancient Republicans.

Vale et valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32697 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Gnae Iuli, et salvete omnes,

"Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus" <julius_cornelianus@...> writes:

> ... declaring emancipation amounts to dissolving each familia

Nonsense. Both of my adult daughters remain Equitia Marina, and members of
domus Equitia Marina. That each one is also mater of her own familia is
simple reality.

That neither one is in my patria potestas is entirely appropriate given their
ages and circumstances. Even in Roma Antiqua there were a great many sui
iuris adult women. In Nova Roma it makes simple good sense.

Emancipation is a legal process. It has nothing at all to do with "dissolving
familia." My children will always be part of my family. What they're not is
my dependents.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32698 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Cista Now Open
Salvete,

The Cista is now open for voting in the Comitia Populi Tributa.
Voting will continue until 0:01 Rome time 28 Jan 2005. The voting
schedule is posted at the Cista page.

http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32699 From: t_octavius_salvius Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve,

> Then that was my error in terminology but either way declaring
emancipation amounts to dissolving each familia to have people
become a mater/pater of nothing. No one will be in their potestas
its ridiculous.

It's not really that ridiculous. There are Gentes now with only one
person in them.

It's also not really about having people in your potestas. It's more
realistic to have many 'branches' of one family than one huge family
with one person at its head. It's also truer to the example of the
Roman Republic.

Just my opinion on the matter.

vale

T. Octavius Salvius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32700 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
"The basis of Roman civil law was the familia, a group consisting of a head, the paterfamilias, and his descendants in the male line. Free members and slaves, all under the guardianship and control of the paterfamilias, were also part of the familia."

--True enough. But this very idea that everyone should emancipate themselves to become the head of their own familia IS ridiculous. It is absolutley unnecessary at this juncture. What are they to become the head of? I hear pins drops echoing through the halls of the family household.


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32701 From: shiarraeltradaik Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Emancipation
Salve!
"Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
Thank you so much for explainng Emancipation I was totally confused
and upset. I belong to the Gens Sempronia and have since I joined
Nova Roma. It is a wonderful Gens and I wish to stay a member of it.
I am not yet a citizen but I have come to feel welcome in my Gens and
in Nova Roma. I have not posted much too the list. I am only just
starting to study Roman History and re-learning Latin so I do not
feel qualified to join in discussions.
Respectfully
Vale bene
Iusta Sempronia Iustina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32702 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
My advice make friends within your familia, then make friends outside of it and use your forebrain to make decisions for you not the "urge" of others. Unless you truly desire to have your own familia there is no real point in emancipating. The familia I am part of is quite strong and friendly and we have no problems...now if each of us wanted emancipation we would cease to be in the potestas of our pater, in essence break apart the familia and we'd be able to have our own familia...from my point of view this urge for everyone to en masse emancipate is pointless...

shiarraeltradaik <shiarraeltradaik@...> wrote:
Salve!
"Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
Thank you so much for explainng Emancipation I was totally confused
and upset. I belong to the Gens Sempronia and have since I joined
Nova Roma. It is a wonderful Gens and I wish to stay a member of it.
I am not yet a citizen but I have come to feel welcome in my Gens and
in Nova Roma. I have not posted much too the list. I am only just
starting to study Roman History and re-learning Latin so I do not
feel qualified to join in discussions.
Respectfully
Vale bene
Iusta Sempronia Iustina





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32703 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Problem with the Cista
Salvete,

Before everyone emails me that the Cista isn't working, I already
know. Nova Roma recently changed servers (the physical hardware
that the software is stored in) and it is now no longer able to
locate a particular file as it is now searching for it on the old
server.

I've notified the server provider of this problem and hope to have
it rectified shortly.

I apologize for this unforseen technical glitch and will do all I
can to rectify this problem as quickly as possible.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32704 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salvete omnes.

The Lex Equitia de Familia will I believe ultimately be judged to be
the most significant law Nova Roma has ever passed to date. Many hate
it, many love it, many haven't a clue what it is about.

I applaud the Censors for bringing this to the front. It is vital
everyone has a clear understanding of what is involved.

I think there will be those that don't want to leave their Gens or in
the case of Athanasius see their Gens opened up. Historically any Tom
Dick or Harry could arrive in Rome, a new citizen having only just
recently been a woad painted barbarian from Britannia, and take the
name Modius. The familia of Modius Athanasius can remain intact and
if none of its members want emancipation then they don't have to take
it. Yes - you could end up with someone called Modius who is a
Christian; but not a Modius Athanasius. You would have to refine the
focus from the old gens Modia to that of the familia and domus of
Modius Athanasius being a bastion of the Religio.

Ultimately this law gives greater historical accuracy, choice and a
structure for the future. Those gens that have close ties will
survive either with all their members under the patria potestas of
their former Gens pater - now their familia pater, or, with some in
the domus of that pater but not in his familia. In short those gens
with close knit ties will make the transition to familia easily.
Those larger gens may have a more problematic passage. Within a short
time though these teething issues will all level out.

In closing I will stress the opposite side of the coin. Those who
don't want to sever a connection with their pater/mater in its most
direct form won't have to, if that pater/mater is willing to accept
full responsibility for them. This is not to be taken lightly, but if
both sides want to preserve and strengthen the ties they can. No one
HAS to emancipate themselves and I think this message is getting
lost. Some people will say it is preferable or you should. Well
frankly the only thing that matters is what you and your pater/mater
want.

No one HAS or MUST emancipate themselves. Paters and maters though,
be aware, you will be legally responsible under Nova Roman law. This
requires considerable thought, but again no one HAS or MUST
emanicpate themselves. The focus that was on the gens has shifted to
that of the familia. Very historic and very correctly so.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> I have a real problem with the current "Gens" reform. I created
Gens Modia.
> I brought Gens Modia to life with a clear vision. I intended
Gens Modia to
> be for Roman/Hellenic Polytheists, and for them ONLY. While I
have many
> Christian friends in Nova Roma, whom I deeply respect and care
about, they are
> not welcome in Gens Modia. Gens Modia is for the Gods.
>
> This vision of Gens Modia is gone. Anyone can now become a Modia,
even if
> they are an atheist.
>
> I am very much apposed to this. The Modia are a community among
themselves.
> I have heard all the arguments against the old system, and I do
not accept
> them. I have even been tempted to leave Gens Modia and encourage
others
> within the Gens to do the same, as I would rather the Gens
disappear than to be
> tarnished by having people in the Gens who do not share the vision
that
> created it.
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
> Pater Familias -- Gens Modia
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2005 5:48:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> rory12001@y... writes:
>
> Salve;
> exactly.
>
> In answer to you Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, every civis right
> now is free 'sui iuris' there are no 'alieni iuris' citizens
unless
> they are children.
> If people want to stay in the Domus of your gens paterfamilias Gn.
> Iulius Caesar they can, they may have longstanding relationships,
but
> that is not the case with our new cives.
> With returning to the ways of Republican Rome we are that much
> closer in Nova Roma to making it reality.
> That's the norm as Nova Roma matures. A number of our cives are
> having children. Many are couples. I think it's wonderful that we
are
> recognizing this.
> bene vale in pace deorum
> M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32705 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Paterfamilias Ullerius scripsit
Valetudo quod fortuna,

I come before you, my fellow citizens of Nova Roma, to declare the nature of my
Gens.

I am Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus, Pater of Gens Ulleria, which was
elevated to Patrician status for the small services I have rendered over time to
our Republic.

If the following is illegal under our system of laws, I should like to invite
the applicable magistrates to comment here in the public forum. In part, I am
here to learn, AND, to inform.

Gens Ulleria is not a traditional Roman Gens, but more like a Germanic Tribal
Gathering of Clans and Families.

Those who are accepted as members of Gens Ulleria are adults: freeborn,
free-minded, freely welcomed.

I hereby declare that all members of Gens Ulleria are as cousins to mine own
household, which contains my beloved wife and I. One exception is Clovius
Ullerius Ursus. C. Ullerius is as a brother to me. Our Bond goes back more
than a decade before the founding of the New City. His wife is also part of my
family, as will their child soon-to-be.

I hereby declare that Gens Ulleria has and will continue to grow by accepting as
members those who would be in a bond of friendship, and will be associated by
freewill acceptance of each other.

I hereby declare that this may not be totally Roman, but then again, neither am I.

-----------------------------------------

I've been here in Nova Roma since near the beginning. I've been real quiet from
time to time, but have never left.

I'm here because my Faithway requires me to honor all of my ancestors, Northern
and otherwise.

I'm here because my Heart requires me to honor all of my ancestors, Northern and
otherwise.

I'm here because my Mind requires me to honor all of my ancestors, Northern and
otherwise.

I'm here because Romans need a good home, just like the German, Norse, Celtic
and other reconstructionists have built over the years.

I am a Heathen, who is also Roman. (Much to the chagrin of some of my fellow
Heathens .-)

In the grand scheme of things, our venture is still young.

-----------------------------------------

Members of Gens Ulleria who read these words above, please write me off list so
I know you are here. My address book is badly out of date.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

--
Living a virtuous life need not be complicated at all.
Honor the Holy Powers in word and deed.
Honor your Family and Forebears.
Give heed to knowledge and skill.
Attempt to do that which is Right;
with Wisdom, Generosity and Personal Honor.
Read, Write, Love, Laugh, Hate, Cry, Cook, Build,
Sit quietly with family enjoying the birds flying by;
just be the best of that for which you are capable as a Man.
Remember that everything you do adds to the weight of your Past,
for Good or Ill. - Venii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32706 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Gn. Iulio Caesari spd;

Salve Caesar,
well said, no one HAS to emancipate themselves. If you do not
want to, absolutely don't do it. I've reposted Caesar's thoughtful
discussion below.
> bene vale
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ
>
In closing I will stress the opposite side of the coin. Those who
> don't want to sever a connection with their pater/mater in its most
> direct form won't have to, if that pater/mater is willing to accept
> full responsibility for them. This is not to be taken lightly, but
if
> both sides want to preserve and strengthen the ties they can. No
one
> HAS to emancipate themselves and I think this message is getting
> lost. Some people will say it is preferable or you should. Well
> frankly the only thing that matters is what you and your
pater/mater
> want.
>
> No one HAS or MUST emancipate themselves. Paters and maters though,
> be aware, you will be legally responsible under Nova Roman law.
This
> requires considerable thought, but again no one HAS or MUST
> emanicpate themselves. The focus that was on the gens has shifted
to
> that of the familia. Very historic and very correctly so.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
> >
> > I have a real problem with the current "Gens" reform. I created
> Gens Modia.
> > I brought Gens Modia to life with a clear vision. I intended
> Gens Modia to
> > be for Roman/Hellenic Polytheists, and for them ONLY. While I
> have many
> > Christian friends in Nova Roma, whom I deeply respect and care
> about, they are
> > not welcome in Gens Modia. Gens Modia is for the Gods.
> >
> > This vision of Gens Modia is gone. Anyone can now become a
Modia,
> even if
> > they are an atheist.
> >
> > I am very much apposed to this. The Modia are a community among
> themselves.
> > I have heard all the arguments against the old system, and I do
> not accept
> > them. I have even been tempted to leave Gens Modia and
encourage
> others
> > within the Gens to do the same, as I would rather the Gens
> disappear than to be
> > tarnished by having people in the Gens who do not share the
vision
> that
> > created it.
> >
> > Valete;
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius
> > Pater Familias -- Gens Modia
> >
> > In a message dated 1/20/2005 5:48:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > rory12001@y... writes:
> >
> > Salve;
> > exactly.
> >
> > In answer to you Gn. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, every civis
right
> > now is free 'sui iuris' there are no 'alieni iuris' citizens
> unless
> > they are children.
> > If people want to stay in the Domus of your gens paterfamilias
Gn.
> > Iulius Caesar they can, they may have longstanding
relationships,
> but
> > that is not the case with our new cives.
> > With returning to the ways of Republican Rome we are that much
> > closer in Nova Roma to making it reality.
> > That's the norm as Nova Roma matures. A number of our cives are
> > having children. Many are couples. I think it's wonderful that
we
> are
> > recognizing this.
> > bene vale in pace deorum
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32707 From: quintuscassiuscalvus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Cista now functional
Salvete,

The Cista is now up and working properly. If you received an error
message when you went to vote, please log in and vote again. Anyone
receiving an error message did not have a ballot cast.

My thanks and gratitude to Marcus Octavius Germanicus (the physical
custodian of the server hardware) for his quick response.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32708 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve GJC Cornelianus -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:

> There is no great benefit in being emancipated.

Actually, there is.

> You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as anyone
> of sui iuris status)

As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to Shut
Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says and not
post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So no,
you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias says
you do.

> and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).

No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office. You
would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you are
elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read the
Law.

Vale
- Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32709 From: cassius622@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Salvete Omnes,

It is with pleasure I announce that the following candidates have been
approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium Pontificum

Marcus Cornelius Felix
Sacerdos Templi Mercurius

Gnaeus Salix Astur
Pontifex

Lucius Martianus Paullus
Sodalus Palatinus

Lucia Modia Lupa
Vestal

It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will assist in welcoming these
fine people to their chosen public positions in the Religio Romana! It is also
my great hope that the new members of the Priesthood above will be active on
the lists and become well known for public efforts in the Religio.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
(on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32710 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Troianus.

I think Cornelianus realised its full impact but he isn't concerned
because of the discussions I and my familia have had on the extent
and implementation of potestas; for instance inder what
circumstances would I tell him to "shut up". Speaking for myself,
only when I see that someone is heading for a big pit <g> which of
course given the nature of the law they won't fall into but I
will :) At that point I would have a vested interest in changing the
direction of posts. I suppose in in ideal world I would be saved
from danger by the Praetors mdoerating the member of my familia
early in the issue.

So Cornelianus is approaching this from the position of having a
paterfamilias who has already throughly gone over this and
established the way in which patria poestas would be applied.
Frankly if any member of my familia wanted to stand for office and I
thought it was a bad idea I would counsel against it but not forbid
it. Sometimes advice only becomes valued when those fingers get put
in the fire and burned :)

Troianus you are very correct to counsel caution though. Those that
remain in potestas are palcing a great deal of trust in their
pater/mater, BUT let us not forget that the Lex Equitia de Familia
allows for someone denied emanicipation by their pater/mater (in the
event they change their mind and want to be sui iuris) to appeal to
the Praetors. Of course it is better to get it right now, but there
is an escape mechanism built into the law.

Anyway that may cast some perspective on the matter.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>
> > There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
>
> Actually, there is.
>
> > You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as
anyone
> > of sui iuris status)
>
> As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to
Shut
> Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says
and not
> post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So
no,
> you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias
says
> you do.
>
> > and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).
>
> No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office.
You
> would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you
are
> elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read
the
> Law.
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32711 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

Congratulations to all the new priests...

But especially to Lucia Modia Lupa!! You make gens Modia shine!


In a message dated 1/20/2005 8:59:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cassius622@... writes:

Salvete Omnes,

It is with pleasure I announce that the following candidates have been
approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium Pontificum

Marcus Cornelius Felix
Sacerdos Templi Mercurius

Gnaeus Salix Astur
Pontifex

Lucius Martianus Paullus
Sodalus Palatinus

Lucia Modia Lupa
Vestal

It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will assist in welcoming these
fine people to their chosen public positions in the Religio Romana! It is
also my great hope that the new members of the Priesthood above will be active
on the lists and become well known for public efforts in the Religio.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
(on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32712 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Finally, great news!
--- AthanasiosofSpfd@...
<AthanasiosofSpfd@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Congratulations to all the new priests...
>
> But especially to Lucia Modia Lupa!! You make gens
Modia shine!
>
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2005 8:59:52 P.M. Eastern
Standard Time,
> cassius622@... writes:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is with pleasure I announce that the following
candidates have been
> approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium
Pontificum
>
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur
> Pontifex
>
> Lucius Martianus Paullus
> Sodalus Palatinus
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal
>
> It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will
assist in welcoming these
> fine people to their chosen public positions in the
Religio Romana! It is
> also my great hope that the new members of the
Priesthood above will be active
> on the lists and become well known for public
efforts in the Religio.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
> (on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32713 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
M. Arminia Maior Quiritibus spd;

many congratulations to Gn. Salix Astur, I am really filled with
happiness and yes the Modi are doing great things, Gai Modi if you
have Lupa enter your domus as "Lucia Modia Athanasia Lupa" I think
you'd be very happy so why not do so with your close gensmates before
January 29th.

On another note, I feel a sense of real sadness as my 'nefas' status
has never been lifted nor my life-long prohbition against holding a
priesthood. I hope the pontifices reconsider my case and realize what
a strong supporter of the Religio they have in me.
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Congratulations to all the new priests...
>
> But especially to Lucia Modia Lupa!! You make gens Modia shine!
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32714 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Troianus...I imagine a pater/mater would not do such extreme measures in general. Unless in forum you were saying things that were on the brink of boiling into a territory where it would haunt them as a result of their "underlings" actions. Don't latch onto underlings I use it loosely here. However, for the most part I would think a pater/mater would look out for the best interests of those in their potestas so they can enjoy the best of NR while remaining in good standing and not causing unnecessary grief. My pater for example has warned me when I was starting to goa bit far or used terminology that could be viewed as too far even though I did not intend it as such. I'm sure in the future, since I am not going to ask for emancipation, he will help guide me and give me advice on getting involved more and more in NR in various things. Others may think or operate differently but thats their choice because its they who are impacted not I or those in their potestas. I guess this
depends on your PoV. I have much leeway from my PoV given to me from my Pater. But he also wants us, in my opinion to enjoy NR without him being authoritarian as he could be as your post points out.

Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...> wrote:Salve GJC Cornelianus -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:

> There is no great benefit in being emancipated.

Actually, there is.

> You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as anyone
> of sui iuris status)

As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to Shut
Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says and not
post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So no,
you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias says
you do.

> and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).

No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office. You
would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you are
elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read the
Law.

Vale
- Troianus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32715 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Gn. Iulius Caesar -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
> Salve Troianus.
>
> I think Cornelianus realised its full impact but he isn't concerned
> because of the discussions I and my familia have had on the extent
> and implementation of potestas [snipped].

You are to be applauded and congratulated on your foresight!
However, Cornelianus should refrain from assuming that the same holds
true in other Gentes. How often on this list do we see an appeal "Help
me - I can't reach my Paterfamilias of Gens Absentia!"? About once a
month. You are taking the responsibilities of a Paterfamilias
seriously, but all too many others are M.I.A. or just don't care.
People in such a situation should be urged to become sui iuris.

> I suppose in in ideal world I would be saved from danger by the
> Praetors mdoerating the member of my familia
> early in the issue.

Sensible, but again Cornelianus is assuming other Paters and Maters are
equally sensible - or even paying attention. I suspect the upcoming
Census will show several M.I.A.s are really "drifted aways". I just
don't want to see a lot of Citizens having to go to the Praetors later
as a result of hastily spoken advice.

People should be urged - and urged repeatedly - to make informed
decisions, based on their actual circumstances within their Gens.
>
> So Cornelianus is approaching this from the position of having a
> paterfamilias who has already throughly gone over this and
> established the way in which patria poestas would be applied.

Yes, exactly: Without having given thought to if the same holds true
within other Gentes. That's what concerns me. You've done well by
your familia, and he is making a very hasty assumption that every other
Pater and Mater have done likewise.
>
> Frankly if any member of my familia wanted to stand for office and I
> thought it was a bad idea I would counsel against it but not forbid
> it. Sometimes advice only becomes valued when those fingers get put
> in the fire and burned :)

True enough, and wise of you. :-)
However, the right of Potestas includes the right to refuse a dependent
running for office. The person may then appeal to the Praetors, but it
could easily be too late to run for office that year by the time it is
resolved. People need to understand this. Cornelius should have said
"Within Gens Iulia our Pater has assured us that these basic rights
will not change. Check with your own Mater or Pater about these
important issues, so you can make an informed decision".
>
> Troianus you are very correct to counsel caution though. Those that
> remain in potestas are palcing a great deal of trust in their
> pater/mater,

Thank you, Gn. Iulius!
Yes, they are placing a great deal of trust by remaining in Potestas,
and so I hope that trust proves well founded for every Citizen in every
Gens who chooses to remain in dependence.

> BUT let us not forget that the Lex Equitia de Familia
> allows for someone denied emanicipation by their pater/mater (in the
> event they change their mind and want to be sui iuris) to appeal to
> the Praetors.

Indeed, but who knows how long this might take?
If speech proves the issue that sends one to the Praetors, then surely
the debate or discussion will be over before it is resolved; if running
for office then the deadline for announcing Candidacy may have passed.
It is simply not a decision to be made lightly, or on uninformed advice.

> Of course it is better to get it right now, but there
> is an escape mechanism built into the law.
>
Indeed!
Let us hope this discussion makes the choice more clear for others, or
at least spurs them to give it some serious thought.

> Anyway that may cast some perspective on the matter.
>
Yes, thank you.

Vale bene
- S E M Troianus
> Vale
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
>> Salve GJC Cornelianus -
>> On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>>
>>> There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
>>
>> Actually, there is.
>>
>>> You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as
> anyone
>>> of sui iuris status)
>>
>> As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to
> Shut
>> Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says
> and not
>> post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So
> no,
>> you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias
> says
>> you do.
>>
>>> and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).
>>
>> No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office.
> You
>> would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you
> are
>> elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read
> the
>> Law.
>>
>> Vale
>> - Troianus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32716 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve GJC Cornelianus -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:41 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>
> Troianus...I imagine a pater/mater would not do such extreme measures
> in general.

Please don't assume what other Maters and Paters might or might not do.
You don't know, and neither do I. The point is what they *could* do,
within their rights and within the Law, and that people should think
about this possibility when making their decision.

> Unless in forum you were saying things that were on the brink of
> boiling into a territory where it would haunt them as a result of
> their "underlings" actions. Don't latch onto underlings I use it
> loosely here.

But they are "underlings" in the truest since of the word: They are
under the Potestas of another. Don't you see the possibility for abuse
here? You have a good Pater who has taken the time to discuss these
things with you and your other Gensmen. Other Paters and Maters have
*not*, and the members of those Gentes need to be cautioned to make
*informed* decisions, not ones based on wishful thinking or what they
think would be reasonable.

> However, for the most part I would think a pater/mater would look out
> for the best interests of those in their potestas so they can enjoy
> the best of NR while remaining in good standing and not causing
> unnecessary grief.

Hopefully this will prove to be the case. Note, though, that even you
have used the qualifier "for the most part". People need to find out
whether their Mater or Pater are indeed as reasonable as you and I hope
they will be. Get it?? They need to make *informed* decisions.

> My pater for example has warned me when I was starting to goa bit far
> or used terminology that could be viewed as too far even though I did
> not intend it as such.

Your Pater is one of the good ones. Really. He takes his
responsibilities seriously.
Keep in mind though those poor civies who come onto this list asking
help in tracking down a missing Pater - Do you really think those
M.I.A. Paters have put in the thought and attention that yours has?
Such Citizens, in such a situation, would likely be better off sui
iuris.

> I'm sure in the future, since I am not going to ask for emancipation,
> he will help guide me and give me advice on getting involved more and
> more in NR in various things.

Again, yours is one of the good ones: You are making an informed
decision, and I congratulate you for it.
Unfortunately you also urged others to make the same decision without
having a clue what the situation is like within their Gens. That was
hasty.

> Others may think or operate differently but thats their choice because
> its they who are impacted not I or those in their potestas.

That's right: They will be impacted, and so they should not listen to
vague advice to do this or not, but should be giving serious thought to
their own circumstances and make their own informed decision as you
have done.

> I guess this depends on your PoV. I have much leeway from my PoV
> given to me from my Pater. But he also wants us, in my opinion to
> enjoy NR without him being authoritarian as he could be as your post
> points out.
>
Yes, but again you have a *good* Pater. Knowing what Potestas
involves, can you seriously recommend anyone remaining a dependent when
their Pater or Mater *isn't* as serious, thoughtful, or responsible as
yours? Because that is precisely the advice you have given, and which
I have objected to.

They should all be urged, repeatedly and often up until the deadline,
to give serious consideration to this matter and make an *informed*
decision.

I hope each of them, upon doing this, will find themselves in as good a
situation as you have in Gens Iulia - but if not, then I hope they will
take advantage of this period to make their situation the way they want
it and become sui iuris if that is what they feel is best for them.

Vale bene
- S E M Troianus
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus <hermeticagnosis@...>
> wrote:Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>
>> There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
>
> Actually, there is.
>
>> You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as anyone
>> of sui iuris status)
>
> As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to Shut
> Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says and not
> post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So no,
> you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias says
> you do.
>
>> and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).
>
> No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office. You
> would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you are
> elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read the
> Law.
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32717 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Ave Troianus,

I will clarify something you mentioned in your post to my pater. I state things from my point of view based on what I am exposed to in NR those whom I talk and the conclusions I draw. As would anyone else. I do not assume every familia to be like the one I am happily a member of. Nor do I assume every mater/pater to be like Caesar.

It is up to each individual cive who is in the potestas of another cive to evaluate their own situation and what is in their best interests as an individual cive. If they have a pater/mater who is M.I.A. then ya emancipation might be a good idea. Or any other situation where they might be uncomfortable or what not. They don't need to be urged to emancipate. They should've, FROM MY PoV, be told you have till X date to decide whether you wish to emancipate, and here's the deal regardless what you choose here are the results and provide necessary information from relevent legislation.

If people disagree with my words so be it. I don't expect everyone to agree or every mater/pater to be the same. That is obvious just by the opinions people hold over wide ranging issues related to Rome. But I simply don't believe people should be urged. This is a decision to be taken seriously. Being urged to me comes across as rushing and can POSSIBLY but not necessarily in all cases lead to a rushed and poor decision that didn't have to be made. But then again thats how I see it.

Cornelianus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32718 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Troianus.

I won't quote your post in order to keep it brief, but I agree
totally with your words of caution.

I think, like you, the Census will reveal the extent of pater/mater
drain and it may not be a pretty picture. The Gens Iulia is ahead of
the game on this issue, and already has three active domus/familia
with a number of sui iuris members. Other Gens are not in that
fortunate position and no doubt there will be a lot of scrabbling
around over the next few days in those. Within my own familia as I
said this matter has been discussed.

Change has come and it has to be embraced and run with if a healthy
familia system is to emerge. The time to oppose the law, for those
here who clearly don't like it, was while it was being voted on. So
since the clock is ticking for those paters/maters and citizens who
have now awoken to the full scope of the Lex Equitia de Familia,
time wasted on railing against the law will ultimately be time lost.

I also agree with you that the discussion, even at this late stage,
is valuable and necessary. I think that even though you, I and Maior
and others are approaching this from different perspectives the
message is the same;

You can choose to be a pater/mater of somone, you can choose to be
in someone's potestas, you can choose emancipation. Whatever you
choose consider wisely, carefully and with a full understanding of
the issues and possible consequences, but don't dilly-dally as the
clock is ticking.

I still believe that once the dust has settled this law will mark a
watershed in Nova Roma, and a very good one.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve Gn. Iulius Caesar -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
> > Salve Troianus.
> >
> > I think Cornelianus realised its full impact but he isn't
concerned
> > because of the discussions I and my familia have had on the
extent
> > and implementation of potestas [snipped].
>
> You are to be applauded and congratulated on your foresight!
> However, Cornelianus should refrain from assuming that the same
holds
> true in other Gentes. How often on this list do we see an
appeal "Help
> me - I can't reach my Paterfamilias of Gens Absentia!"? About
once a
> month. You are taking the responsibilities of a Paterfamilias
> seriously, but all too many others are M.I.A. or just don't care.
> People in such a situation should be urged to become sui iuris.
>
> > I suppose in in ideal world I would be saved from danger by
the
> > Praetors mdoerating the member of my familia
> > early in the issue.
>
> Sensible, but again Cornelianus is assuming other Paters and
Maters are
> equally sensible - or even paying attention. I suspect the
upcoming
> Census will show several M.I.A.s are really "drifted aways". I
just
> don't want to see a lot of Citizens having to go to the Praetors
later
> as a result of hastily spoken advice.
>
> People should be urged - and urged repeatedly - to make informed
> decisions, based on their actual circumstances within their Gens.
> >
> > So Cornelianus is approaching this from the position of having a
> > paterfamilias who has already throughly gone over this and
> > established the way in which patria poestas would be applied.
>
> Yes, exactly: Without having given thought to if the same holds
true
> within other Gentes. That's what concerns me. You've done well
by
> your familia, and he is making a very hasty assumption that every
other
> Pater and Mater have done likewise.
> >
> > Frankly if any member of my familia wanted to stand for office
and I
> > thought it was a bad idea I would counsel against it but not
forbid
> > it. Sometimes advice only becomes valued when those fingers get
put
> > in the fire and burned :)
>
> True enough, and wise of you. :-)
> However, the right of Potestas includes the right to refuse a
dependent
> running for office. The person may then appeal to the Praetors,
but it
> could easily be too late to run for office that year by the time
it is
> resolved. People need to understand this. Cornelius should have
said
> "Within Gens Iulia our Pater has assured us that these basic
rights
> will not change. Check with your own Mater or Pater about these
> important issues, so you can make an informed decision".
> >
> > Troianus you are very correct to counsel caution though. Those
that
> > remain in potestas are palcing a great deal of trust in their
> > pater/mater,
>
> Thank you, Gn. Iulius!
> Yes, they are placing a great deal of trust by remaining in
Potestas,
> and so I hope that trust proves well founded for every Citizen in
every
> Gens who chooses to remain in dependence.
>
> > BUT let us not forget that the Lex Equitia de Familia
> > allows for someone denied emanicipation by their pater/mater (in
the
> > event they change their mind and want to be sui iuris) to appeal
to
> > the Praetors.
>
> Indeed, but who knows how long this might take?
> If speech proves the issue that sends one to the Praetors, then
surely
> the debate or discussion will be over before it is resolved; if
running
> for office then the deadline for announcing Candidacy may have
passed.
> It is simply not a decision to be made lightly, or on uninformed
advice.
>
> > Of course it is better to get it right now, but there
> > is an escape mechanism built into the law.
> >
> Indeed!
> Let us hope this discussion makes the choice more clear for
others, or
> at least spurs them to give it some serious thought.
>
> > Anyway that may cast some perspective on the matter.
> >
> Yes, thank you.
>
> Vale bene
> - S E M Troianus
> > Vale
> > Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
> > Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> >> Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> >> On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus
wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
> >>
> >> Actually, there is.
> >>
> >>> You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as
> > anyone
> >>> of sui iuris status)
> >>
> >> As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you
to
> > Shut
> >> Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says
> > and not
> >> post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is.
So
> > no,
> >> you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your
Paterfamilias
> > says
> >> you do.
> >>
> >>> and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris
status).
> >>
> >> No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office.
> > You
> >> would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if
you
> > are
> >> elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read
> > the
> >> Law.
> >>
> >> Vale
> >> - Troianus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32719 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Flavia Tullia Scholastica Valeriae Metellae sociis, peregrinis, quiritibusque omnibus S.P.D.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> O.K., so all I have to do is write the Censors and my current paterfamilias and declare
myself the paterfamilias of the family Valeria Metella?

Not exactly, unless your gender is different from that represented by your name. If, as
your name seems to indicate, you are female, you would be the MATERfamilias, not the
PATERfamilias. If the head of your gens is male, he is indeed a paterfamilias; if not, she is
a materfamilias. Incidentally, the plural is 'patresfamiliarum' and 'matresfamiliarum,' though
the form 'patresfamilias' also occurs.

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica
Scriba Latinitati Censori Gnaeo Equitio Marino


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
>
>
> Salva Valeria Metella -
>
> Gladly!
> In short, our current Gens system is unhistorical: You join a Gens and
> are considered somehow vaguely related but nothing is spelled out.
> Last year we passed a Law that brings us closer to actual Roman
> practice.
> If you stay as you are, you will be considered legally under you Mater
> or Paterfamilias' jurisdiction and they have legal rights and
> responsibilities over you: Essentially, you fall under their "potestas"
> like in Ancient Rome. In effect you are treated as their "child".
>
> If you emancipate yourself, you are declaring yourself an independent
> adult and "sui iuris" - legally responsible for yourself, with full
> rights and responsibilities of an adult Citizen. You become
> Materfamilias of your own domos or "Familia" - head of your own
> household.
>
> So do go ahead and send in an Emancipation notice! Otherwise your
> legal status will be that of a child under your Gens parent's control.
>
> Vale bene
> - Troianus
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:40 PM, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, I have a question. Why are we emancipating ourselves? I've
> > missed something somewhere, I do believe. I'm unclear as to what is
> > going on. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks!!
> > Valeria Metella
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Maior
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:23 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Emancipation
> >
> >
> >
> > M.Arminia Maior Fabian Quiritibus spd;
> >
> > Avete omnes; since no one has written a word about the
> > Emancipation edict, I just want to urge all the Plebians to
> >
> > Please Emancipate Yourselves
> >
> > it's really easy just write to the Censors & cc your gens pater or
> > mater.
> >
> > "I 'roman name" emancipate myself and declare myself the
> > mater/paterfamilias of the family nomen+cognomen"
> >
> > so for example mine looks like:
> >
> > " I Marca Arminia Maior Fabiana emancipate myself and declare myself
> > the materfamilias of the familia 'Arminia Maior Fabiana'"
> >
> > If you want to join your gens pater or mater's family in a cousin-
> > type relationship. You can do so but you have only until January
> > 29th. Write your gens pater for permission and then write to the
> > Censor's office telling you want to be part of his Domus. You need to
> > emancipate yourselves also. So please let's discuss this on the ML.
> >
> > If you have any questions I'm happy to help, I know Cordus and many
> > others are too.
> > bene valete in pace deorum
> > M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
> > Propraetrix Hiberniae
> > caput Officina Iuriis
> > et Investigatio CFQ
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32720 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
"Please don't assume what other Maters and Paters might or might not do. You don't know, and neither do I. The point is what they *could* do, within their rights and within the Law, and that people should think about this possibility when making their decision. Don't you see the possibility for abuse here? People need to find out whether their Mater or Pater are indeed as reasonable as you and I hope they will be. Get it?? They need to make *informed* decisions." -Troianus

I am entitled to an opinion right? Well I don't assume that all pater's or mater's are the same. I never explicitly stated that was the case. I gave my opinion. As I've said each cive needs to evaluate their own situation. That is how they make an "*informed*" decision. You know fire up a few synapse get the forebrain working.

The whole abuse idea is a scare tactic. Everyone DOES NOT need to emancipate en masse just because it was urged. Are we going to go through this every year? Time in and time out urge people to emancipate so no one is ever in anyone's potestas because someone "could" abuse their power? Telling people to think about their pater/mater abusing their power is a scare tactic. Are we ever going to have anyone in anyone's potestas? Next January can expect to read "EMANCIPATE!!! EMANCIPATE!!! I URGE YOU!!! EVERY CIVE EMANCIPATE!!!" The Nova Roman's are smart enough...oops I'm assuming...I hope all Nova Roman's are smart enough to think this over for themselves and not take into consideration scare tactics. This is why I am not telling them what to do. I have expressed my opinion, view it as you will, against an en masse emancipation as being unnecessary but have neither urged them to make one decsion or another.


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32721 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Salvete Quirites,

Congratulations to all the new priests and our new Vestal priestess.

> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur
> Pontifex
>
> Lucius Martianus Paullus
> Sodalus Palatinus
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32722 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve GJC Cornelianus -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:

> Are we going to go through this every year?

No. That's the point.
This is the *only* opportunity for a Get Out Of Potestas Free Card.
After this, it will require a hearing with the Praetors and be up to
them to decide on a case by case basis.
The Praetors *may* decide "No".
This is the last chance for those who might want sui iuris status to
get it without a hassle.

So everyone really needs to give it some thought, because as your Pater
pointed out so eloquently "the clock is ticking".

Vale
- Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32723 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Troianus.

I think one specific point you make is one I have to specifically
agree with. For someone whose pater/mater truly has gone the way of
a number of citizens, paters, magistrates et al and obviously been
abducted by aliens, then clearly being in the potestas of such a
shade would be pointless. For those I agree could EITHER choose to:

1. Become emancipated - fully.
2. Elect to join a domus of another pater/mater with permission of
the latter.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>
> > Are we going to go through this every year?
>
> No. That's the point.
> This is the *only* opportunity for a Get Out Of Potestas Free Card.
> After this, it will require a hearing with the Praetors and be up
to
> them to decide on a case by case basis.
> The Praetors *may* decide "No".
> This is the last chance for those who might want sui iuris status
to
> get it without a hassle.
>
> So everyone really needs to give it some thought, because as your
Pater
> pointed out so eloquently "the clock is ticking".
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32724 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-20
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Gn. Iulius -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 10:55 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
> 1. Become emancipated - fully.
> 2. Elect to join a domus of another pater/mater with permission of
> the latter.

Thank you for pointing that out!
Moving to another familia *is* always an option, and one some Citizens
may want to consider.
Normally it's someone who joined not knowing anyone, who then makes
friends within a particular Gens and wants to join it, but the option
is always open to everyone and this period of Familia formation really
is a golden time for it.

Vale bene
- Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32725 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
---Salvete Omnes:

Just an addendum to Troianus Quaestor's excellent points:


Let us turn to the Leges Salicia...if you wish in future to file a
petitio actio against someone who has vexed you with a injury, be it
libel, legal infarction, etc....well...simply... if you are not
emancipated, ya can't...because this legislation stipulates that you
can't be a minor and be party to such litigation....

Also, if I read the Lex Equitia Familia correctly, emancipation
after this deadline is subject to approval of your
mater/paterfamilias. If she/he says 'no', well, you may stand in
line at the Praetores office to contest this, as this law provides
for such, even if you are a minor. The sticky part is, you 'might'
be in for a potentially nasty fight if your mater/pater contested
this in the first place....*why* they would I dunno, but one can
never predict the future behaviour of another, even that of himself
sometimes, nonne?

Another possible scenerio down the road is in the possible view of
a presiding Praetor: "well kid, you are a minor...." Even with the
provision of the Lex Equitia Familia, or the Lex Anything, Praetores
are human, have been known to err and can and have been rather
closed to reversing the dismissal of a petitio. The Tribunes cannot
veto a 'nonaction' of the Praetor, just an 'action'. So an appeal
to the Tribunes would have to be legally effected in other ways,
should you choose to appeal to them. But they cannot legally force
the Praetor's hand on our behalf.

...do you want or need these problems? *Yawn*?

So, if there are any lingering doubts, err on the side of caution
and emancipate yourself...and if you have questions, the Censores
are more than willing to help.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Censor posted a rather detailed post on
the emancipation process on this list this morning. So if in doubt
regarding any elements, do write the Censores.

Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
>
> > There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
>
> Actually, there is.
>
> > You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just as
anyone
> > of sui iuris status)
>
> As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you to
Shut
> Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says
and not
> post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is. So
no,
> you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your Paterfamilias
says
> you do.
>
> > and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris status).
>
> No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office.
You
> would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if you
are
> elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read
the
> Law.
>
> Vale
> - Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32726 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve Po.

I think that you are taking a somewhat pessimistic view of the Lex
Equitia de Familia, and more importantly about those people who are
paters and maters. Yes we know that some have gone awol. Most
unfortunate, but the extension of the scenario to paters/maters
frustrating citizens who want to get elected or emancipated is
another leap entirely. It is possible of course, but so is a mad
dictator exiling everyone - unlikely but remotely possible. Equally
the assumption that we will be presented with a praetor, or one
assumes two prateors who are dismissive of any case for emancipation
is again another leap and an unjustifiably negative one.

The Lex Equitia de Familia is a move towards historical accuracy. I
understand and echo the caution echoed by Troianus, to choose wisely
and expeditiously, but for you then to extend the scenario from
absent paters/maters to malicious ones is a little alarmist to put
it mildly. To assume that the judicial appeal could be useless due
to incompetent or dismissive Praetors is again too great a leap.

Troianus pitched the right note of caution and concern, but I think
we are straying ever so slightly into a feeling that the scenario
you paint is almost bound to happen. I don't think we can make that
assumption, but having read your post I failed to find one positive
message about the future structure of the familia. It is most
disturbing that you seem to have no faith in the future development
of NR.

Yes you do say if there are "any lingering doubts, err on the side
of caution and emancipate yourself" which seems moderate enough - on
its own, but that follows hard on the heels of some very drastic
scenarios. For new citizens, or for citizens who are somewhat
confused about this law, I think your post could easily tip them
froma state of ignorance or confusion into a state of potential
panic. I don't think causing panic at this late stage is at all
helpful to the citizens themselves.

I really think that a somewhat more balanced, positive and hopeful
attitude is called for, yes tinged with caution, but a more upbeat
view of what lies ahead. I don't think we should enter a situation
created by one of the corner stones of Marinus's legislative program
of last year in such a defeatist manner. None of your scenarios are
impossible, but I really feel that like the mad dictator unlikely,
and if it happens we should trust to our legal system, the benefits
of which were so much trumpted last year, no?

Let us have faith in the law, in the people's choice of Praetor's
now and in the future to deliver justice, in the wisdom of our
former Consul Marinus whose law it was, in the paters and maters of
Nova Roma, and most importantly of all in the common sense of our
citizens. That I think is the message we should be promoting - not
if I may say a *Yawn*.

Please - let's be cautious but also upbeat.

Valete
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
>
> ---Salvete Omnes:
>
> Just an addendum to Troianus Quaestor's excellent points:
>
>
> Let us turn to the Leges Salicia...if you wish in future to file a
> petitio actio against someone who has vexed you with a injury, be
it
> libel, legal infarction, etc....well...simply... if you are not
> emancipated, ya can't...because this legislation stipulates that
you
> can't be a minor and be party to such litigation....
>
> Also, if I read the Lex Equitia Familia correctly, emancipation
> after this deadline is subject to approval of your
> mater/paterfamilias. If she/he says 'no', well, you may stand in
> line at the Praetores office to contest this, as this law provides
> for such, even if you are a minor. The sticky part is,
you 'might'
> be in for a potentially nasty fight if your mater/pater contested
> this in the first place....*why* they would I dunno, but one can
> never predict the future behaviour of another, even that of
himself
> sometimes, nonne?
>
> Another possible scenerio down the road is in the possible view
of
> a presiding Praetor: "well kid, you are a minor...." Even with the
> provision of the Lex Equitia Familia, or the Lex Anything,
Praetores
> are human, have been known to err and can and have been rather
> closed to reversing the dismissal of a petitio. The Tribunes
cannot
> veto a 'nonaction' of the Praetor, just an 'action'. So an appeal
> to the Tribunes would have to be legally effected in other ways,
> should you choose to appeal to them. But they cannot legally
force
> the Praetor's hand on our behalf.
>
> ...do you want or need these problems? *Yawn*?
>
> So, if there are any lingering doubts, err on the side of caution
> and emancipate yourself...and if you have questions, the Censores
> are more than willing to help.
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Censor posted a rather detailed post on
> the emancipation process on this list this morning. So if in doubt
> regarding any elements, do write the Censores.
>
> Pompeia
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> > On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus wrote:
> >
> > > There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
> >
> > Actually, there is.
> >
> > > You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just
as
> anyone
> > > of sui iuris status)
> >
> > As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you
to
> Shut
> > Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he says
> and not
> > post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas is.
So
> no,
> > you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your
Paterfamilias
> says
> > you do.
> >
> > > and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris
status).
> >
> > No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for office.
> You
> > would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if
you
> are
> > elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please read
> the
> > Law.
> >
> > Vale
> > - Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32727 From: Samantha Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Salvete,
I would like to thank everyone for their kind words, I will do my
utmost ability to serve as Vestal to the degree of which I am
currently serving as sacerdos Diana. Be assured I will put every bit
of my heart and effort into it :)

Valete,
Lucia Modia Lupa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Congratulations to all the new priests and our new Vestal priestess.
>
> > Marcus Cornelius Felix
> > Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
> >
> > Gnaeus Salix Astur
> > Pontifex
> >
> > Lucius Martianus Paullus
> > Sodalus Palatinus
> >
> > Lucia Modia Lupa
> > Vestal
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32728 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Can we join another gens instead of becoming our own ? I'm not ready for that. Even though I have three children of my own I don't believe I'm Materfamilias material. I need someone and although I found my paterfamilias rather lacking I was glad to have that ( though more could have been done to guide me.)
Also, in the ancient times how many women were actually the materfamilias w/o a paterfamilias? Not to say it didn't happen but, I don't believe it would happen on this scale. I'm not trying to argue, I simply want to understand. Everything I've read seems to point out that a woman must have a male 'guardian'. That is what history tells me. Now, to keep to the historical we need to emancipate? I don't see where this is any more historical than, let's say, capitalism. I realize it was practiced by a few but, not the majority.
Maybe I just don't understand the 'politics' of the matter quite well enough.
Valete,
Valeria Metella
Original Message-----
From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Emancipation


Salve Gn. Iulius -
On Jan 20, 2005, at 10:55 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
> 1. Become emancipated - fully.
> 2. Elect to join a domus of another pater/mater with permission of
> the latter.

Thank you for pointing that out!
Moving to another familia *is* always an option, and one some Citizens
may want to consider.
Normally it's someone who joined not knowing anyone, who then makes
friends within a particular Gens and wants to join it, but the option
is always open to everyone and this period of Familia formation really
is a golden time for it.

Vale bene
- Troianus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32729 From: immaculo@bellsouth.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: rome:total war
Well guys (and girls) after everything it still won't play right. I'm really losing hope. Wish me luck. I need it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32730 From: Quintus Servilius Fidenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salve,

When the 29th gets here I'm planning on merging my recently formed
Plebeian Gens Servilia to Gens
Cornelia to form a Plebeian branch(i.e. Cornelia Servilia). Since I use
to belong to Cornelia
I am going reassume part of my old Cornelian name in the process(Gnaeus
Cornelius Servilius). I
had this planned before the Emancipation announcement came out.

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Fidenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32731 From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salva Valeria Metella -
On Jan 21, 2005, at 2:03 AM, <immaculo@...> wrote:
> Can we join another gens instead of becoming our own ?

Yes indeed! That has always been an option. Simply approach the Pater
or Materfamilias whose Gens you would like to join, to get their
approval. Then request permission to leave from your current
P/Materfamilias. Once you have that, notify the Censors & include a
copy of both "Parents" agreements and they'll make your name change
official. They will notify you if there is anything else they need to
complete the process, but that should be enough.

> I'm not ready for that. Even though I have three children of my own I
> don't believe I'm Materfamilias material. I need someone and although
> I found my paterfamilias rather lacking I was glad to have that (
> though more could have been done to guide me.)

That's quite all right - it's perfectly acceptable to remain under a
Pater's potestas.

> Also, in the ancient times how many women were actually the
> materfamilias w/o a paterfamilias? Not to say it didn't happen but, I
> don't believe it would happen on this scale. I'm not trying to argue,
> I simply want to understand. Everything I've read seems to point out
> that a woman must have a male 'guardian'. That is what history tells
> me.

While I'm fairly sure there were some Roman women who were independent
heads of their households, my understanding of Roman Law indicates that
there weren't very many because you are correct: Women were normally
required to have a Guardian to look out for her interests. However,
Roman Law later said that any woman could dismiss her Guardian if she
didn't like his decisions - meaning the Guardian either permitted
whatever she wanted or found himself replaced by someone who would.
Which means that there were effectively and practically *many* such
women running many such households.

So many, in fact, that by the time Christianity was spreading it was
recognized as a problem: Too many wealthy Matrons were being "taken
advantage of" by evangelizers. The "Guardians" were totally
ineffective by this time.

> Now, to keep to the historical we need to emancipate?

Nope. To be historical, we need to create actual relationships on the
Roman model, including households and familiae. As for Materfamiliae,
because women are equal under the Law in Nova Roma we had to permit
Materfamilia on a scale not seen in Antiquity. This Law applies to
everyone, not just to women.

> I don't see where this is any more historical than, let's say,
> capitalism. I realize it was practiced by a few but, not the
> majority.

Well, likewise we don't have slavery or other people as chattel -
modern times are what they are, and we have to live within modern Law
and realities. This isn't a role playing game, after all (not that
many people would want to recreate those positions anyway, as the lack
of peasants in the SCA shows) - this is the New Roman Republic.

> Maybe I just don't understand the 'politics' of the matter quite well
> enough.

Politics? No, just a desire to be more historical, or at least as
historical as we can. Having complete strangers be somehow vaguely
"related" in Gens the way we currently are is inaccurate: New Citizens
voluntarily join a "family" where they don't know anyone, becoming
"relatives" in some undefined way. By our current system, the wife and
daughters of one of our Censors are no more or less related to him than
I am, since we're all in Gens Equitia and previously NR Law went no
further than that in defining relationships; by the new Law, they will
be recognized as an actual Roman Familia, he and his wife as an actual
Roman household - as it should be.

It isn't Politics. What it is, is both more Historical and better
representative of Reality - as well as being more Roman.

Vale bene
- S E M Troianus

> Valete,
> Valeria Metella
> Original Message-----
> From: Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Emancipation
>
>
> Salve Gn. Iulius -
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 10:55 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
>> 1. Become emancipated - fully.
>> 2. Elect to join a domus of another pater/mater with permission of
>> the latter.
>
> Thank you for pointing that out!
> Moving to another familia *is* always an option, and one some
> Citizens
> may want to consider.
> Normally it's someone who joined not knowing anyone, who then makes
> friends within a particular Gens and wants to join it, but the option
> is always open to everyone and this period of Familia formation
> really
> is a golden time for it.
>
> Vale bene
> - Troianus
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32732 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: test
>
>
>
>sorry test



____________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32733 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation what a mistake!
II have to say for someone involved with history, you are amazingly short
sighted.
Why do you think there were Gens or Clans? They were proto family units. In
20 years maybe we will have families, real Roman families, but like the real
Romans this takes time. We have been going 7 years?
That's not even a 1/2 generation.
As for the child like comment, I lend my Gensmate money, I give them advice,
and I give them help when they need it. They are not children, yet I care
what happens to them. So if that makes me a daddy sue me! As for Potestas the
Censors made that illegal years ago.
Rome was not built in in a day. And generations who were members of extended
families that eventually split off and formed their families, yet still
retained the patron of gens.
We cannot exist seven years and expect to have 400 families of one or two
and seem rational.
The late republic did not happen over night. We need the clans to lay the
groundwork.
When Vedius formed NR he was following Dionysios example, strangers would
conjoin into friends and eventually become family. And the Cornelians, Iulians,
Equitians, Cassians, even the Fabians were rather large once NR began. We
tried to give stability to NR newcomers, a place to answer questions etc.
Well since we are not ready, and i forsee this as one large CF, I suspect it
will put additional strain on our institutions and cause numerous fractures
in friendships.
We have not evolved. Without the process there is nothing. Vedius wished
that NR evolve slowly. Not take leaps of absurdity
This silly lex put an end to all that.
Ah well, another nail in NRs coffin.
Q. Fabius Maximus



.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32734 From: hucke@cynico.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Failure
Forwarded message is available.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32736 From: Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Congratulations to all the new priests!

valete,
Arnamentia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is with pleasure I announce that the following candidates have
been
> approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium Pontificum
>
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur
> Pontifex
>
> Lucius Martianus Paullus
> Sodalus Palatinus
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal
>
> It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will assist in
welcoming these
> fine people to their chosen public positions in the Religio Romana!
It is also
> my great hope that the new members of the Priesthood above will be
active on
> the lists and become well known for public efforts in the Religio.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
> (on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32737 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

My sincerest congratulations to Marcus Cornelius Felix, Gnaeus Salix
Astur, Lucius Martianus Paullus, and Lucia Modia Lupa on their
elevations. May they serve the res publica with grace and may the
Gods give them Their blessings.

Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32738 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caesao Corneliano S.P.D.

Salve, Iulius Cornelianus.

You do have every right to your opinion, and you are absolutely free
to express it --- unless your pater decides you may not :-)
If for *any* reason, your pater decides to order you to be silent, he
may do so, regardless of any "agreement" you may have with him.
That's the law.

It is not a "scare tactic" to make citizens aware of the ways in which
potestas affects their legal existence, nor is it a safe assumption
that all patres-/matresfamiliae are as flexible and active as yours.

So, it is absolutely a private decision between the citizens of a gens
and their pater-/materfamilias as to which would suit their individual
needs, emancipation or not.

It may not be appropriate to jump around in the Forum shouting for
people to emancipate themselves, but neither is it appropriate to tell
them that emancipation is not a seriously affective act.

Vale bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32739 From: Lucius Apollonius Clement Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Lucius Apollonius Clement Gaio Equitio Cato S.P.D.

Salve Cato,

I sent you a private message about a week ago, which subject is relative
to your emancipation. As I don't know if you check your emails or if you
react on this list directly using the Web yahoo interface, I am posting
this in public to catch your attention.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Vale Bene,

Lucius Apollonius Clement.

>
> G. Equitius Cato Gn. Iulio Caeso Corneliano quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salve et salvete.
>
> Iulius Cornelianus, it is most definitely *not* "ridiculous".
>
> The basis of Roman civil law was the familia, a group consisting of a
> head, the paterfamilias, and his descendants in the male line. Free
> members and slaves, all under the guardianship and control of the
> paterfamilias, were also part of the familia. Free members were the
> wives, unmarried children (biological and adopted) and other
> dependents. The members of the familia had no voice in the Curiae, yet
> they were subject to its decisions and laws, as well as to the
> decisions made on the family level by the patriarch.
>
> The formal head of the legally recognized family, the paterfamilias,
> was the oldest surviving male ascendant, and his authority over his
> descendants lasted until his death, unless formally resolved by a
> legal act. He was the anchor of the family, the decision maker, and
> the financial manager. Women, children, and slaves had a very inferior
> status. They had a constant awareness of his power and position. Every
> member of the familia was in the potestas of the paterfamilias. The
> virtually absolute power of the paterfamilias over the rest of his
> household may have been necessary or desirable in early days when the
> state had no regular courts or police force and did not involve itself
> in private morality. The father of the Roman family had the power over
> everyone and everything in the home. This power was legally
> recognized. If any member of the family behaved in any way that he
> considered exceeding the boundaries of proper behavior he had the
> power to punish the offender with harsh sentences such as banishment,
> slavery, and death. This power extended to the man's slaves and tenant
> farmers as well. Only the paterfamilias had the right before law to
> buy, sell, or hold property. He owned, as agent and trustee, all the
> property of the extended family and held absolute power over persons
> within his household. As long as the paterfamilias was alive, the sons
> could not own property or have legal authority over their own
> children. Though the paterfamilias had the authority to do all of
> these things, if he inflicted terrible punishment or wasted family
> property, his reputation would be ruined. Sometimes a father would let
> his son go on to rule his own family. Upon the paterfamilia's death,
> each of the sons became rulers of their own households.
>
> Technically, legally, if a citizen is under the potestas of their
> pater-/materfamilias, they could be refused permission to do just
> about anything, including but not limited to speaking in the Forum or
> running for office. You are correct that the *family* was the
> backbone of Roman life; it was the family, *not* the gens. Nova Roman
> law is now coming closer to that state, a closer identification with
> the social system of the ancient Republicans.
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32740 From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: New Religio Priesthoods
Ladies and Gentlemen;

My sincerest congratulations to you for achieving this landmark within
Nova Roma. You have both my best wishes for your future endaevors, and
my respect and admiration for your eftorts. I join with the Pontifex
Maximus in the hope that you will join together in harmony for the goal
of your beliefs.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens




Wishing you all the best, with Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32741 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
---P. Minucia Tiberia Omnibus S.P.D.

Replying to the rather interesting response of Caesar, but for
everyone's benefit:

If I had a suspicious nature, after reading this respondeo and other
posts... I'd say that a certain group of pater/mater?familiae are
terrified of giving up their patriapotestas...if you can imagine
that!

This has been a long standing problem in NR...a certain few
maintaining unrealistically rigid views of just about
everything...politics, religion...and patriapotestas issues, past
and present. Seems to boil down to 'control'. Check the archives,
if you think you need to.

While Caesar, citizen of about a year, states 'Have faith!', I,
citizen of 5 years, am cautioning you to 'Check the facts, while
you're at it'.



The Family law of Equitius voted in last year is pursuant to the Lex
Labiena Gentibum, passed late 2003, after much discussion in prior
years, and also the Lex Equitia Gentibum 2004. It is a historical
and quite comprehensive approach to a plan of gens development which
was voted in by comitia. Gens reforms, emancipation options, the
whole nine yards is a comitia (people)-mandated approach...from
last year. It is not an innovation of the Censores of this year, or
the Consuls of last year..their administrative actions are mandatory
as it is law,... and, in keeping with our historical
reconstructionist motives, we are doing it up according to history.

There is no point in a certain few worrying about their 'control'
over their gensmates, as it is no longer in their hands, but in
those of the filiae.



I wrote last night to give you, the populace, more of the already
presented facts, which I feel you need and should know, in weighing
out an informed decision regarding your plans to emancipate...or if
you so choose not emancipate. Apparently I hit a nerve. I recommend
personally emancipation, but I respect the right of people to choose
as always. If there is 'any doubt', do emancipate. In either case,
be informed.



Heck, it is no suprise to me that I receive a reply like the one
below, stating that it is 'thought' that I am engaging in stirring
up panic, it is 'thought' that I am promoting a negative view of the
Lex Equitia Familia (I did?), that somehow I need admonishment to
have more faith in the ability of Consularis/Censor G. Equitius
Marinus in promoting justice, etc. etc. Thank you for the lecture,
Caesar :), but it is hardly necessary, really.

My suggesting that magistrates, maters/paters are not infallible is
hardly trumpeting pessimism...it is advising caution and being
truthful. So is citing your limitations if you don't emancipate. I
will not promote naivity, after being here for 5 years...nice place,
but we have had our moments. A fair statement.

I am always suspcious when we are asked to take a 'naive' approach,
and a 'don't worry, be happy' attitude, in lieu of examination of
law and facts. Sincere, objective advice rarely asks you to ignore
the facts, in my view. The more informed you are, the happier you
will be. Always. In anything, I do believe.


Fact: Unemancipated,you will have trouble launching a petitio actio
according to the Lex Salicia, unless you are doing it with support
of your paterfamilius.

Fact: Unemancipated you are guaranteed to encounter alot of legal
red tape with the Praetores should you change your mind and wish to
become emancipated. You may be challenged by your paterfamilias,
especially if he clings to his potestas like a child clings to a
favourite stuffed toy. The Praetores past and future are not saintly
nor are they perfect in their administrations. A fair statement.
There is a limit on how much the Tribunes might do for you, in
this. A fair statement...not spontaneous fantasies :) .. but
episodes based on NR history. These scenerios don't happen often,
but they have histories. Scaremongering, or citing facts? You
decide.

Fact: Yes,the above legal fiddlefaddle can be rather pedantic and
headache provoking, Quirites. **yawn**. Atleast I, for one, can find
other things to do with my time. So you need to be informed and make
an informed decision.

You should visit the Tabularium and read the Lex Labiena Gentibum,
the Lex Equitia Gentibum, the pertinent Leges Saliciae of 2003
outlining our judicial system. About 15-20 minutes of reading. You
are worth it.

http://www.novaroma.org click on Tabularium, click on Leges



This balloon of a respondeo gets bigger, more superfluous and
rather presumptuous with each ensuing sentence. When you reexamine
what I wrote, I 'think' grandiosity. But as I say, I rather expected
this. This is a standard guilt trip type post anytime something is
posted that collides with the rigid conservative views and control
issues of a few...some of whom are 'thought' still to be affiliated
with the F*B*I..(former Boni of Independents) :) There is a
protest from Q. Fabius Maximus, of last night, but I am not sure to
whom he is speaking. He doesn't say.

And if you have any questions, as I said in my last post, do contact
the Censors, whom, contrary to the 'thoughts' of Caesar, I have
sufficient faith in, enough to have recommended them to you in the
first place, and then some, after having known them for 5 years.

And I will not entertain any subsequent replies to the effect that I
am overstating my position, or overreacting to what I view herein as
an obvious attempt to downplay an important familial issue, which
calls for decisions of citizens...the results of which may have more
profound consequences than they perhaps realize.











In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Po.
>
> I think that you are taking a somewhat pessimistic view of the Lex
> Equitia de Familia, and more importantly about those people who
are
> paters and maters. Yes we know that some have gone awol. Most
> unfortunate, but the extension of the scenario to paters/maters
> frustrating citizens who want to get elected or emancipated is
> another leap entirely. It is possible of course, but so is a mad
> dictator exiling everyone - unlikely but remotely possible.
Equally
> the assumption that we will be presented with a praetor, or one
> assumes two prateors who are dismissive of any case for
emancipation
> is again another leap and an unjustifiably negative one.
>
> The Lex Equitia de Familia is a move towards historical accuracy.
I
> understand and echo the caution echoed by Troianus, to choose
wisely
> and expeditiously, but for you then to extend the scenario from
> absent paters/maters to malicious ones is a little alarmist to put
> it mildly. To assume that the judicial appeal could be useless due
> to incompetent or dismissive Praetors is again too great a leap.
>
> Troianus pitched the right note of caution and concern, but I
think
> we are straying ever so slightly into a feeling that the scenario
> you paint is almost bound to happen. I don't think we can make
that
> assumption, but having read your post I failed to find one
positive
> message about the future structure of the familia. It is most
> disturbing that you seem to have no faith in the future
development
> of NR.
>
> Yes you do say if there are "any lingering doubts, err on the side
> of caution and emancipate yourself" which seems moderate enough -
on
> its own, but that follows hard on the heels of some very drastic
> scenarios. For new citizens, or for citizens who are somewhat
> confused about this law, I think your post could easily tip them
> froma state of ignorance or confusion into a state of potential
> panic. I don't think causing panic at this late stage is at all
> helpful to the citizens themselves.
>
> I really think that a somewhat more balanced, positive and hopeful
> attitude is called for, yes tinged with caution, but a more upbeat
> view of what lies ahead. I don't think we should enter a situation
> created by one of the corner stones of Marinus's legislative
program
> of last year in such a defeatist manner. None of your scenarios
are
> impossible, but I really feel that like the mad dictator unlikely,
> and if it happens we should trust to our legal system, the
benefits
> of which were so much trumpted last year, no?
>
> Let us have faith in the law, in the people's choice of Praetor's
> now and in the future to deliver justice, in the wisdom of our
> former Consul Marinus whose law it was, in the paters and maters
of
> Nova Roma, and most importantly of all in the common sense of our
> citizens. That I think is the message we should be promoting - not
> if I may say a *Yawn*.
>
> Please - let's be cautious but also upbeat.
>
> Valete
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
> <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> >
> > ---Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > Just an addendum to Troianus Quaestor's excellent points:
> >
> >
> > Let us turn to the Leges Salicia...if you wish in future to file
a
> > petitio actio against someone who has vexed you with a injury,
be
> it
> > libel, legal infarction, etc....well...simply... if you are not
> > emancipated, ya can't...because this legislation stipulates that
> you
> > can't be a minor and be party to such litigation....
> >
> > Also, if I read the Lex Equitia Familia correctly, emancipation
> > after this deadline is subject to approval of your
> > mater/paterfamilias. If she/he says 'no', well, you may stand
in
> > line at the Praetores office to contest this, as this law
provides
> > for such, even if you are a minor. The sticky part is,
> you 'might'
> > be in for a potentially nasty fight if your mater/pater
contested
> > this in the first place....*why* they would I dunno, but one can
> > never predict the future behaviour of another, even that of
> himself
> > sometimes, nonne?
> >
> > Another possible scenerio down the road is in the possible view
> of
> > a presiding Praetor: "well kid, you are a minor...." Even with
the
> > provision of the Lex Equitia Familia, or the Lex Anything,
> Praetores
> > are human, have been known to err and can and have been rather
> > closed to reversing the dismissal of a petitio. The Tribunes
> cannot
> > veto a 'nonaction' of the Praetor, just an 'action'. So an
appeal
> > to the Tribunes would have to be legally effected in other ways,
> > should you choose to appeal to them. But they cannot legally
> force
> > the Praetor's hand on our behalf.
> >
> > ...do you want or need these problems? *Yawn*?
> >
> > So, if there are any lingering doubts, err on the side of
caution
> > and emancipate yourself...and if you have questions, the
Censores
> > are more than willing to help.
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Censor posted a rather detailed post
on
> > the emancipation process on this list this morning. So if in
doubt
> > regarding any elements, do write the Censores.
> >
> > Pompeia
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Servius Equitius Mercurius
Troianus
> > <hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:
> > > Salve GJC Cornelianus -
> > > On Jan 20, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus
wrote:
> > >
> > > > There is no great benefit in being emancipated.
> > >
> > > Actually, there is.
> > >
> > > > You can freely voice your opinion in the public forum (just
> as
> > anyone
> > > > of sui iuris status)
> > >
> > > As long as you aren't sui iuris you Paterfamilias can tell you
> to
> > Shut
> > > Up. You will be in his potestas and will have to do as he
says
> > and not
> > > post a thing. You don't seem to get how absolute potestas
is.
> So
> > no,
> > > you *don't* retain the same rights, not unless your
> Paterfamilias
> > says
> > > you do.
> > >
> > > > and you can run for office (just as anyone of sui iuris
> status).
> > >
> > > No. Your Paterfamilias can forbid you from running for
office.
> > You
> > > would only be allowed to run if your Pater permits it, and if
> you
> > are
> > > elected then you become automatically emancipated. Please
read
> > the
> > > Law.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > - Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32742 From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Salvete Quirites!

Congratulation to all new priests and priestesses and especially to
my dear friend Gnaeus Salix Astur! Good Luck to You all!

>Salvete Omnes,
>
>It is with pleasure I announce that the following candidates have been
>approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium Pontificum
>
>Marcus Cornelius Felix
>Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
>
>Gnaeus Salix Astur
>Pontifex
>
>Lucius Martianus Paullus
>Sodalus Palatinus
>
>Lucia Modia Lupa
>Vestal
>
>It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will assist in welcoming these
>fine people to their chosen public positions in the Religio Romana! It is also
> my great hope that the new members of the Priesthood above will be active on
>the lists and become well known for public efforts in the Religio.
>
>Valete,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>Pontifex Maximus
>(on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32743 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: rome:total war
You'll get it working....keep the faith....its RTW def. not worth giving up on!!!

immaculo@... wrote:Well guys (and girls) after everything it still won't play right. I'm really losing hope. Wish me luck. I need it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32744 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Cato,

From my PoV it was a scare tactic. Or even if I give the benefit of the doubt here and say it was from how I took it a poorly worded way of expressing possibilities. One need least only their position (the individual in potestas) and the power of the mater/pater. The very suggestion of potential for abuse coupled with the fact people are urging citizens to emancipate is a scare tactic and nothing more than a reinforcement to push people to emancipate. That is why I won't "urge" anyone in anyway. I've expressed my opinion and people can do with it what they want. All of us have fully functioning forebrains and I'm sure we all have at least 1/2 a synapse to fire up to think this over and any possibilities. This is why people need to make the decision for themselves on which avenue to pursue without being nudged in any direction.


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32745 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Salvete omnes.

I am just suggesting that in order for informed choices to be made it
would be more productive to provide a more optimistic view, and if
that is too optimistic for some in itself, then try a balanced view.

As for the comment about paters and maters being terrified, that
again I think is incorrect. The issue is that many paters and maters
are very attached to the concept of one Gens as opposed to many
families. It really has nothing to do with trying to control people -
but a concern that fragmentation will lead to disolving the links
shared through association by nomen alone. I don't subscribe to this
view, but it is a genuine fear they have; one of many.

Insinuating that there are base motives at work just reduces the
debate to the normal level of a verbal custard pie throwing contest.
I withdraw from that contest, on this occasion, becuase the stakes
for citizens are too high to engage in a thread that is begining to
shift from informative to accusatory.

In closing not everything in Nova Roma has to be reduced to the level
of dubious motives, potential oppression, exploitation and though it
hasn't surfaced..yet..insinuations of plots. Sometimes the reality
really is very simple. Sadly I doubt that the simplest explantion
will be accepted by everyone.

Valete
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
>
> ---P. Minucia Tiberia Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Replying to the rather interesting response of Caesar, but for
> everyone's benefit:
>
> If I had a suspicious nature, after reading this respondeo and
other
> posts... I'd say that a certain group of pater/mater?familiae are
> terrified of giving up their patriapotestas...if you can imagine
> that!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32746 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Ave Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia,

A certain group of pater/mater fear losing patriapotestas? I find that funny considering several in the familia have already stated quite clearly before my pater made a public post that we we had no intention of emancipating. But yet fear mongering continues. It has moved from pushing the idea of authoritarian patriarchs or matriarchs to a control issue. If that is the case then why are all of you pushing so hard for citizens to emancipate? You talk about "suspicious nature". I find it rather suspicious that it is being pushed so hard for people to emancipate.

You talk about people being "terrified". Well TERROR is the appropriate word here. But who is really spreading it? Those who are walking a fine line between expressing disagreement against a push for en masse emancipation or those pushing or urging en masse emancipation while in the same breathe saying "abuse", "control", that intiself is fear mongering and IS a scare tactic.

What you should have done is provide cold hard facts and let the facts speak for themselves. What does the law say? Cite rlevent text that outlines what being in someone's potestas is. Cite what authority the pater/mater has. Then the close date of January 29. But instead you chose to mix that with your own opinions on this matter. That is what drew a reaction. Let the citizens decide for themselves they don't need to be pushed along by anyone.

"I am always suspcious when we are asked to take a 'naive' approach"

So am I. But the "naive approach" is emancipating just because people are urging you to. As has been pointed out this is a serious decision to be made and scare tactics and people pishing you in one direction has no place here. Each citizen needs to evealuate there own situation and make the decision for themselves. BY THEMSELVES. But is urging people in one direction really "obejective advice"? If people pushing this were really that objective they won't be using terminology such as "abuse" and "control" and then negatively targetting opposition.

"The more informed you are, the happier you will be."

Informed? What or whose standard is this based off of? Nevermind forget I asked. But informed would not require someone's continued support of scare tactics would ti? So stop using such negative means to push what you want. Again see above cite the law(s), January 29th end of story. There are your facts. But you charged on injecting your own voice into. One's opiniond does not constitute fact.


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32747 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Ave!
Ave Nova Roma!

My name is Fernando Cardozo Silva. I´m Brazilian and micronationalist about 5 years. Now, I´m on the way to be a new citizen of Nova Roma and here I am to know better those who are members of the Republic and uderstand how it works and how different it is from the Brazilian micronations.

Good day!

Fernando Cardozo Silva (trying to be Caius Flamen Tyranus)





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32748 From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Nova Roma Newsletter Article Pool
To anyone who may be interested;

Well at the moment, the Editor for the four newsletters is myself --
self-appointed. It is a task which in my view needs to be done, and one
which I seem to have a liking for if not a talent.

The four newsletters are:

--"Aquila,"

--"Roman Times Quarterly",

-- "Pilum,"

-- "Nova Britannia."

The first two are Nova Roma newsletters and whatever Roman interests
members of Nova Roma is "grist for the mill." Religious articles are
reviewed by the Religious Editor for suitability.

Recipes, Poetry, Archaeology, History, Law, Agriculture etc.

"Pilum" is a military newsletter and anything regarding the Roman
Military is also quite acceptable.

"Nova Britannia" is about the Northeast U.S.. Anything of Roman interest
in that area is "good news."

Remember also that "Aquila" is a monthly and the remainder are quarterly
so "Aquila" will eat up an article pool faster than the others All
articles should be sent to me for Edit, and review. Deadline for
submission to any month is the 20th, and the material should be
submitted to me HTML or (jpeg). Length of the article is not important,
Roman interest is.

The Editor reserves the right to make the final determination regarding
article presentation.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32749 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Fwd: Gens/Familia/Emancipation Stuff: Links to Current Legislation
"P. Minucia Tiberia" <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:52:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "P. Minucia Tiberia"

To: Pompeia_Minucia_Tiberia@...

Salvete Omnes:

I wasn't going to do this but, well, simply, I've changed my mind :)

Below you will find the urls to the legislations I mentioned in my previous post today regarding the gens to familia emancipation issues, and a line or two on what aspects they address.

I hope this helps you render an informed decision, regarding your options.

****************

I. Lex Labiena de Gentibus:

The constitutional amendment adopted by comitia in Dec. 2003 and ratified by the Senate Jan. 29 2004...a plan for gens to familia reform became law:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-12-24-ii.html

II. Lex Equitia de Gentibus:

The constitutional amendment to portions of the Lex Labienia which were adopted by comitia to augment the above processes:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-10-07-ii.html

III. Lex Equitia de Familia

This is the lex which defines patriapotestas (the power of the pater/mater), your rights as a minor (alien sui) and your rights as an emancipated head of your own familia within a gens (sui iuris), how these circumstances can be changed.

NR Marriage laws,contract laws, etc. etc. Based on historical models. I commend the research, based on my experience in reading the same things in the past.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-10-07-vii.html

* IV. The Lex Salicia Iudiciaria

This is the lex which specifically states that both parties must be sui iuris in a law petition under NR law, and cites clearly as an example : a minor cannot play the role of an actor (plaintiff)

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html


I have not included the Lex Salicia Peonalis, which details, to make a long story short 'crimes and punishments' , as it really does not directly effect the emancipation process, although a gander through it would not hurt, but is not essential, I would think at this point.

It will take a little time, but it is time well spent to read these through, imo




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32750 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Candidacy for Quaestor
Salvete Omnes,

I am very glad to see mi amice Tiberius Galerius stand for Quaestor.
He certainly has my support.

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salve, Citizens of Rome!
>
> I , Tiberius Galerius Paulinus humbly come before you to ask for
your support
> and vote for the office of Quaestor I have asked for and received
your support
> three times in the past and I ask for it again. I have had the honor
of serving
> you as Curator Differium, Quaestor, and this year as Tribune.
> I am 47 years old, and I have been a citizen of Nova Roma since the
21st day of
> the Ianuarius 2755.
>
> I am employed as a teacher in the macro world , teaching
> government and history in Mediatlantica Provincia. I have the honor
of serving
> our Junior Consul Gnaeus Equitius Marinus as a Legate in his capacity as
> Propraetor.
>
>
> I believe I have maintained the highest integrity and dedication to
the welfare
> of Nova Roma and her citizens.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Quaestor
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32751 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
A. Apollonius Cordus omnibus sal.

Anyone who is uncertain what to do about emancipation
and would like one-to-one advice is welcome to write
to me. I don't work for the censores, but I have a
good understanding of the legal issues involved, and I
think I can safely say that I'll be able to help most
people.

If you would like advice, please e-mail me privately.
Explain briefly what your concerns are and tell me
anything about your personal circumstances which you
think might be relevant, especially whether you have
relatives or family members (or anyone you consider a
member of your family even if not technically related
to you) who are citizens or who might like to become citizens.





___________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32752 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
Salvete Omnes,

My congratulations to all of those assuming new positions in the
Religio and my thanks for their willingness to serve.

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas

-------------------------------------------------------

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is with pleasure I announce that the following candidates have been
> approved for Priesthood positions by the Collegium Pontificum
>
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur
> Pontifex
>
> Lucius Martianus Paullus
> Sodalus Palatinus
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal
>
> It is my hope that the Citizens of Nova Roma will assist in
welcoming these
> fine people to their chosen public positions in the Religio Romana!
It is also
> my great hope that the new members of the Priesthood above will be
active on
> the lists and become well known for public efforts in the Religio.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
> (on behalf of the Collegium Pontificum)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32753 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
---Salve Cornelianus et Salvete Omnes:

Cornelianus, your emotionally charged post will go unaddressed by
me. However, whilst you were complaining of the poor referencing in
my last post regarding legislation pertinent to this discussion, I
was in my private box, testing urls I had looked up to provide the
citizens with a quicker access to the proper legislation. Great
minds think alike :)

I will point out, though, that in my last post I did atleast provide
the website url, directing folks to the Tabularium and Leges
sections, citing the names of the Leges in question. This indeed
didn't seem quite helpful 'enough' to me, but given that my inferior
effort is more than some people have offered as references in their
posts to date, I'm not sure about the basis for this aspect of your
criticism.

Ahh,.... where are the legal and historical references which
influence your opinions, Cornelianus, might I ask...or have I just
missed them?

Pompeia
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32754 From: Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Emancipation
Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia,

I am hardly emotionally charged. But if that is how you take my words then so be it. I'm not going to argue over how you should take my words. Yes I saw your post with links to appropriate lex and brief statement....no opinions...this is how this should've been done from the get-go with January 29th as end date. Now may the citizens decide FOR THEMSELVES.....

Cornelianus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32755 From: Maior Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Announcement - New Priesthoods of Nova Roma
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana Quiritibus spd;
I find it very hard to think that someone like Senatrix Patricia
Cassia wants to serve and is denied the opportunity. With women
pontifices as part of Nova Roma's past I think it is pretty awful for
her and entirely unfair.
Gaius Iulius Scaurus found one fact where women could not attend a
rite, why can not something be done to make sure women pontifices
return!
M. Arminia Maior Fabiana TRP
Propraetrix Hiberniae
caput Officina Iuriis
et Investigatio CFQ

>
> My congratulations to all of those assuming new positions in the
> Religio and my thanks for their willingness to serve.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32756 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Salve Romans

Last week I posted a couple of questions to any and all magistrates about citizenship and have only had one answer and that from a former Consul.

Is it asking to much for the Magistrates of Nova Roma to answer theses two questions?

****************************************************************************************************

Salve Romans


Before the adoption of the Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda on May 20 2754 (2001), when did a resignation of a citizen become official ?

Was there any grace period before the one establish in the Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda?


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32757 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Salve

> Last week I posted a couple of questions to any and all magistrates about
> citizenship and have only had one answer and that from a former Consul.
>
> Is it asking to much for the Magistrates of Nova Roma to answer theses
> two questions?

No, it is not of course, but I guess you also want a precise and correct
answer. In doubt, I did prefer not to reply, but given you insist I shall
give my unproofed answers

> Before the adoption of the Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda on
> May 20 2754 (2001), when did a resignation of a citizen become official ?

When it was expressed, I think, immediatly, but with endless discussions
if it was possible to withdraw it or not and all the consequences

> Was there any grace period before the one establish in the Lex Cornelia
> et Maria de civitate eiuranda?

Not officially, as far as I know, but, again, endless discussions about if
it was possible or not to come back.

That's what I can offer as answers, and, again, I'm not sure about them.

Vale

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32758 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Salve Tiberi Galleri,

I saw the response and I did not see any thing to add, but...



> Before the adoption of the Lex Cornelia et Maria de civitate
eiuranda on May 20 2754 (2001), when did a resignation of a citizen
become official ?

Laenas: When it was announced.



> Was there any grace period before the one establish in the Lex
Cornelia et Maria de civitate eiuranda?

Laenas: No. In at least two instances I can recall a Consul refusing
to accept the resignation, but there was no specifical lax governing a
grace period.

Vale,

Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32759 From: Jack the Ripper Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: Rif: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Newsletter Article Pool
Ave, Marce, et vale bene!
How can I subscribe myself to the newsletters?


Vale Optime,

Qvintvs Fabivs Valerivs Maximvs Allectvs
Civis NovaRomanus - http://www.novaroma.org
Tirone Legio I Italica - Villadose (RO) - http://www.legio-i-italica.it



-------Messaggio originale-------

Da: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: 01/21/05 19:39:37
A: Egressus@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma Newsletter Article Pool

To anyone who may be interested;

Well at the moment, the Editor for the four newsletters is myself --
self-appointed. It is a task which in my view needs to be done, and one
which I seem to have a liking for if not a talent.

The four newsletters are:

--"Aquila,"

--"Roman Times Quarterly",

-- "Pilum,"

-- "Nova Britannia."

The first two are Nova Roma newsletters and whatever Roman interests
members of Nova Roma is "grist for the mill." Religious articles are
reviewed by the Religious Editor for suitability.

Recipes, Poetry, Archaeology, History, Law, Agriculture etc.

"Pilum" is a military newsletter and anything regarding the Roman
Military is also quite acceptable.

"Nova Britannia" is about the Northeast U.S.. Anything of Roman interest
in that area is "good news."

Remember also that "Aquila" is a monthly and the remainder are quarterly
so "Aquila" will eat up an article pool faster than the others All
articles should be sent to me for Edit, and review. Deadline for
submission to any month is the 20th, and the material should be
submitted to me HTML or (jpeg). Length of the article is not important,
Roman interest is.

The Editor reserves the right to make the final determination regarding
article presentation.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"

Command is a matter of wisdom, integrity, humanity, courage and
dicipline.

Sun Tzu -- "The Art of War"



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32760 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-01-21
Subject: FYI:APA meeting in 2006 we solicit papers
Salve Romans FYI

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

*********************************************************************************

Roman Virtues and Vices

Organizers: Karla Pollmann, St Andrews; Eric Casey, Sweet Briar College; William Harris, Columbia University; Brad Inwood, University of Toronto; Robert A. Kaster, Princeton; David Konstan, Brown University; Irmgard Männlein-Robert, Würzburg; Matt Roller, Johns Hopkins; David Wray, University of Chicago.

The cultural centrality and conceptual rigor of ancient "virtue language" provides a rich ground for exploring notions, representations and transformations of ancient virtues and vices. In the last decade or so, "virtue ethics" has become an increasingly prevalent avenue of investigation in modern ethical reflections, focusing on aretaic concepts of excellence and (in fewer cases) their opposites, and on the moral character and motives of actions. This new departure within ethical philosophy, which is influenced by Aristotle but has so far hardly taken any Latin texts into account, will provide the questions to be considered in the panels of the proposed colloquium and may also be challenged by papers. The colloquium focuses on Roman culture, from the beginnings of Latin literature through Late Antiquity, including early Christianity. It aims at contextualizing the academic conversation about virtue ethics in a new way by paying more attention to ancient social contexts-for example, through examining and questioning the specific "Romanness" of given ethical values, as well as their relation to Greek culture. Interdisciplinary approaches are encouraged, especially those involving philosophy, history with its subdisciplines, as well as linguistic and literary investigations. Junior scholars are welcome.

For the APA meeting in 2006 we solicit papers on the following topic:

Roman Virtues, Vices & Their Transformation The panel will explore the development of Roman morality in all periods through Late Antiquity. We invite authors to ask the following questions by using a diachronic approach and/or comparing contemporaneous cultures in contact with one another: how stringent are the demands of 'Roman' morality through time? what is the good life as opposed to the bad life, and what part do virtues and vices play in it? how do human needs and economic, social, and political changes interrelate with virtues and vices?

For the APA meeting in 2006, abstracts (no more than 800 words) are due by February 4, 2005. Submit abstracts, by email (preferred) or as hard copy with disk, to Eric Casey (ecasey@...<mailto:ecasey@...>), Sweet Briar College, Sweet Briar, VA, 24595. Abstracts will be judged anonymously by two referees.

.. seen on the Classicists list




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32762 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Legal Questions for our Magistrates: second posting
Salve Tiberi Galeri, et salvete Quirites,

Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:

> Salve Romans
>
> Last week I posted a couple of questions to any and all
> magistrates about citizenship and have only had one answer
> and that from a former Consul.

In fact, you addressed your question to those former magistrates who had
been in office at or before the time of the change. I think that most
current magistrates were not even in Nova Roma then, and therefore
didn't feel it appropriate to speculate about the past we were not a
part of. Since there is no clear policy statement in the Tabularium, it
would be quite impossible for those who were not yet in the organization
to answer the question authoritatively.

> Is it asking to much for the Magistrates of Nova Roma to answer
> theses two questions?

It is in the cases of those magistrates who have no direct knowledge of
the situation, yes. The Lex Cornelia et Maria was the first
codification of a policy.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32764 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Resignation (Cross Posted)
G. Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

The following was posted to the NR Announce list on Monday January
17th (a.d XVI Kal. Feb.). For a number of reasons it was just
realeased from that list. AS it affects all of Nova Roma, I am cross
posting it here.

Valete.

----------------------------------------------------------

>>Members of Nova Roma:

Due to unforseen, and unfortunate events in the macro-world, that
have recenctly transpired, I am left with no choice but to resign
from my office of Quaestor, and to resign and renounce my
citizenship in Nova Roma itself. The events of my life are private,
and I will not discuss them in this forum.

I ask that I be removed from all mailing lists, and from the roster
of citizens. It is not my intention to stir up any hard feelings or
negativity. I apologize for having to leave my office vacant, and I
apologize to Consul Laenas in particular, for leaving him without a
quaestor. I am certain that my position will be filled quickly, and
life will go on in Nova Roma without me.

I wish you all well as you continue this journey, however, mine must
take a different path.

Sincerely:

Quintus Bianchius Rufinus<<
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32765 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
G. Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Because of the resignation of Quaestor Quintus Bianchius Rufinus, we
have a second vacancy in the Quaestorship which needs to be filled.

There is still time for a cive interested in serving to declare before
the Comitia is called to vote.

Please submit your candidacy to Consul Apulus Caesar at:

fraelov@...

or send it to me at

ksterne@...

and I will forward it.

Vles bene.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32766 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

Why did he resign?

It upsets me that a person that I endorse leaves office before he even
started it. What is up with people?


In a message dated 1/22/2005 3:38:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ksterne@... writes:

Because of the resignation of Quaestor Quintus Bianchius Rufinus, we
have a second vacancy in the Quaestorship which needs to be filled.





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32767 From: AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
I just read his "resignation" letter....

I find it pretty pathetic that a person finds their life suddenly in such
crisis that they have to resign office, and resign citizenship at the same
time. I apologize to the citizens of Nova Roma for endorsing Quintus Bianchius
Rufinus. I was wrong in judging his character.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 1/22/2005 4:57:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
AthanasiosofSpfd@... writes:


Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

Why did he resign?

It upsets me that a person that I endorse leaves office before he even
started it. What is up with people?





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32768 From: Lucius Rutilius Minervalis Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Edictum Censoris CFQ XXVII (Emancipation): French Translation
Salvete Omnes,

I think very useful to translate in french this Edictum, for the
french-readers citizen who do not suscribed to NR-Gallia list.

Valete !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor
Aedilician Quaestor

======================================================================

Officio ex Censoris Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani Edictum
Censoris CFQ XXVII au sujet de l'émancipation des citoyens de
Nova-Roma et de la date du 29 Janvier

La date importante du 29 janvier s'approche, et ceci aura un effet
profond sur les citoyens de Nova-Roma car les lois sur la famille
seront dans leur plein effet. Cet edictum est publié pour rendre les
choix clairs à tous les citoyens avant le 29 Janvier.

I Les citoyens ont jusqu'au 29 janvier pour s'émanciper et maintenir
leur plein statut juridique et leur statut de "sui juris".

II "Sui Iuris" signifie la majorité, les droits et les privilèges d'un
citoyen d'adulte qui a atteint la pleine capacité juridique à Nova
Roma, les droits et privilèges dont jouissent tous nos citoyens
actuellement.

III Si les citoyens ne s'émancipent pas eux-mêmes avant le 29 janvier,
ils perdront alors leur pleine capacité juridique et deviendront les
mineurs juridiques "iuris alieni". Ces citoyens seront sous la
puissance des Pater/Mater familias de leur familia (probablement leur
ancienne tête de gens) exactement comme un enfant mineur. Le Pater ou
le Mater Familias peut les punir, peut leur interdire de se marier,
peut les empêcher de faire des affaires dans le Macellum ou avec
d'autres citoyens de Nova-Roma, selon la loi de Nova-Roma et intérieur
ses limites. D'autres pertes de droits sont détaillées dans le
paragraphe IV de Lex Equitia de Familia.

IV. Bien que les citoyens qui sont des "alieni iruis" puissent
postuler à des charges et voter, il est conseillé à tous les citoyens
de nova Roma de s'émanciper avant la date du 29 janvier.

V. Domus et adoptions. Ceux qui écrivent au bureau du censeur avant
le 29 janvier pour joindre le domus de leur Paterfamilias peuvent le
faire. Ceci signifie qu'ils porteront les nomen et cognomen de leur
Pater/Mater familias actuel (qui deviendront les Pater/Mater familias
de leur propre familia après le 29 Jjanvier), mais ne tomberont pas
sous leur potestas. Ils seront des "sui iuris" et considéré en tant
que parents très étroits, apparentés aux cousins, aux enfants de mêmes
parents, aux oncles et aux tantes.

VI. Veuillez observer également qu'il est encore possible d'écrire au
bureau des censeurs avant le 29 janvier pour s'émanciper et de devenir
les Pater/Mater familias d'une familia de sa propre familia. Ceci
semble être le choix de la plupart de nos citoyens.

VII. Familia et adoptions. Après la date ci-dessus, tous les citoyens
qui ne seront pas émancipés devront pétitionner auprès des Praetores
pour s'émanciper. S'ils ne s'émancipent pas, ils devront, par la
volonté de la loi, prendre les nomen et cognomen de leur Pater/Mater
familias (de leur ancienne Gens) familias et l'ajouter à leur leur nom
pour montrer leur position légale. Ils deviendront l'enfant juridique
du Pater ou du Materfamilias. Ils perdront leur statut de "sui iuris"
et deviendront des "alieni iuris" avec le tout ce que cela signifie
d'être sous la "postestas" (puissance) de leur Pater/Mater familias.

VIII. Cet Edictum est applicable immédiatement.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32769 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: My MSN/ICQ
Anybody here use MSN Messenger or ICQ? If so, take my contacts.

ICQ: 215477783
MSN: fernand_heinrich@...

Fernando Cardozo Silva


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador do Yahoo! agora.

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32770 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Salve!
Salve Nova Romans!

Let me introduce myself. I´m Fernando Cardozo Silva, Brazilian, 20 years old, and It´s honor meeting you.

Ave!

F. Cardozo Silva


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador do Yahoo! agora.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32771 From: mlcinnyc Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
G. Equitius Cato F. Hernando Henrico Silvae salutem plurimam dicit.

Salve vir.

Welcome to Nova Roma! Are you applying for citizenship? Take a look
around our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/main.html

and see what we're about. It's always good to see new faces.

Vale optime,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva
<cardozo_silva@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Nova Romans!
>
> Let me introduce myself. I´m Fernando Cardozo Silva, Brazilian, 20
years old, and It´s honor meeting you.
>
> Ave!
>
> F. Cardozo Silva
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador
do Yahoo! agora.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32772 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Salve Gai Modi Athanasi,

Don't worry, all of us in life have recommended people that do not
work out for one reason or another. Just happened with me in the oil
patch.

The only interesting outcome of this is that he has corroborated my
theory about why some people leave as we were discussing elsewhere.
I'll check around and see if I can find another citizen to run but
don't forget he is entitled to his 9 day reconsideration period which
still is deemed to be in effect.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:ay
>
> I just read his "resignation" letter....
>
> I find it pretty pathetic that a person finds their life suddenly
in such
> crisis that they have to resign office, and resign citizenship at
the same
> time. I apologize to the citizens of Nova Roma for endorsing
Quintus Bianchius
> Rufinus. I was wrong in judging his character.
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 1/22/2005 4:57:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> AthanasiosofSpfd@a... writes:
>
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.
>
> Why did he resign?
>
> It upsets me that a person that I endorse leaves office before he
even
> started it. What is up with people?
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32773 From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Back In Business!
Salvete omnes,

Civilization has come to me in the barbarian wilderness. I have high
speed internet on site now so I'm in touch with NR around the clock.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32774 From: Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
Thank you so much. Yes, I´m applying citizenship. The request is 8434.
It´s always good meet new faces to. =) Where are you from?

Fernando

mlcinnyc <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:


G. Equitius Cato F. Hernando Henrico Silvae salutem plurimam dicit.

Salve vir.

Welcome to Nova Roma! Are you applying for citizenship? Take a look
around our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/main.html

and see what we're about. It's always good to see new faces.

Vale optime,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva
wrote:
>
> Salve Nova Romans!
>
> Let me introduce myself. I´m Fernando Cardozo Silva, Brazilian, 20
years old, and It´s honor meeting you.
>
> Ave!
>
> F. Cardozo Silva
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador
do Yahoo! agora.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







Yahoo! Groups Links









---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32775 From: Fr. Apulus Caesar Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: I - EDICTVM CONSVLARE FAC DE NOMINATIONIBVS ACCENSIBVS CONSOLARIBVS
FRANCISCVS APVLVS CAESAR CONSVL OMNIBVS S.P.D.

I - EDICTVM CONSVLARE FAC DE NOMINATIONIBVS ACCENSIBVS CONSOLARIBVS

Isto aliquos cives accensus consulares facio ad annum MMDCCLVIII auc.
Illi ab legibus Nova Roma statuti universa munia commodaque obtinent.

GAIUS MODIUS ATHANASIUS
MANIUS CONSTANTINUS SERAPIO
JULILLA SEMPRONIA MAGNA
LUCIUS IULIUS SULLA
POMPEIA MINUCIA-TIBERIA STRABO
MARCUS FLAVIUS PHILIPPUS CONSERVATUS

Non postulabunt iur iurandum iurare.

A.d. IV ides Ian. Fr. Apulus Caesar and G. Popillius Laenas consulibus




+++++++++
english version
+++++++++

I hereby appoint the following citizens as my consular accensi for
the year 2758, with all the obligations and privileges prescribed by
the Laws of Nova Roma:

GAIUS MODIUS ATHANASIUS
MANIUS CONSTANTINUS SERAPIO
JULILLA SEMPRONIA MAGNA
LUCIUS IULIUS SULLA
POMPEIA MINUCIA-TIBERIA STRABO
MARCUS FLAVIUS PHILIPPUS CONSERVATUS

They shall not be required to make any kind of oath.

Given a.d. IV ides Ian. in the Consulship of Fr. Apulus Caesar and G.
Popillius Laenas



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32776 From: P. Minucia Tiberia Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Fwd: [Nova-Roma] Re: Emancipation (Clarification Requested from M
P. Minucia Tiberia G. Iuliano Caesarono Corneliano Populesque S. P. D.

Below, you will find a forward post of this forward issued yesterday by G. Iulius Caesar Cornelianus, suggesting his constraint of what I should say and in what format I should say it, no less in this forum. I am in addition, requesting a legal clarification in this matter.

After his 11 rather passionate posts on this issue in which he clearly issues 'opinions' he is now suggesting that *I* should not be opining, lest they sway peoples opinions, preventing them from deciding themselves.

Next time, Cornelianus, I shall follow your excellent examples of avoiding opinions, and I shall continue to back them up as well as you have herein:

#32689: "This idea is insanity".."To ask everyone to emancipate themselves is chaeotic and is also counterproductive"
( It is a process of law that people atleast be given the option, regardless of our individual opinions on the matter)

#32699: "Either way declaring emancipation amounts to dissoliving each familia to have people become a mater/pater of nothing. No one will be in their potestas. It's ridiculous"
(The number of people in ones 'potestas' is hardly the golden calf here, it is emancipation)


#32702: "My advice"...(Cornelianus you told me I should not opine, according to the message I am responding to of yours?)

#32714: "I imagine"....(Cornelianus I didn't 'imagine'. Visualization is allowed by you, but not opinions based on law, history and experience, I guess.)

In messages #32744 and #32746 Cornelianus opines and seems to be suggesting a plan of public scaremongering to those he responds to. One of them was myself.

Quirites, I have offered opinions, and stated them as such. Any recommendations I have made is based on established and often cited laws and historical chronology that is easily accessed. I even went for far as to provide a link to the tabularium where people could access certain laws. I have a couple of times said more or less: I recommend emancipation myself; when in doubt, emancipate; make an informed decision,; read the laws I've cited;, and contact the Censores if you have a question.

Here are my posts: 32725, 32741, 32749, 32753, and of course this one.

I later thought that looking up the direct links to these pertinent laws (as opposed to just giving the names and linking to the Tabularium alone) might be of more help to especially newer citizens and so I went ahead and did this. This issue has been in the works for two years. I was part of the early discussions when I was a Senator. And I feel that I am being singled out and told to 'shut up' and stick to the facts, which I have provided likely better than anyone who has posted.

Here are my legal concerns:

If Cornelianus was not a *list moderator*, I would not be worried. He has not told anyone else they are not entitled to opinions. Troianus for example, Maior Tribuna, someone was rather nasty with Cato but I can't find that post. No matter.

I would like Cornelianus, to confirm to me, via this list, that his 'should and shouldn't' manifesto for Pompeia is a personal *opinion* , which he has applied to date to only me to this contricting extent, and NOT an official act by which he is using to quell my constitutional rights to freedom of speech, speech which is further quite permissable by the list guidelines.

As a private citizen Cornelianus, in laying down these rules for just me... to wit, no opinion, cites the links, and get off the stage, lest I influence others' thinking by 'scaremongering' ....you have taken a rather hypocritical and partisan stance when I look at your own posts...you don't like what I'm saying so I can just shut up.

But as a list moderator, such behaviours are blatently illegal and totally unacceptable.

I am not sure how people can bandy between "unofficial" and "official" capacities as a list moderator, magistrate, etc.... being the same person, they usually follow the same set of rules, officially or unofficially, for themselves and others, but some people claim otherwise.... and be two separate persons almost. Actually, there are some who have been 'many' persons at different times, such reincarnations of sorts being a matter of documented history. So if speaking 'unofficially' is his excuse, fine, for the moment.

Lastly, have a good look at this documentation, Cornelianus:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/constitution.html
Citizenship

4. ...the right (of citizens) to participate in all public fora and discussions and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility.

This includes us all, Cornelianus. It is not selectively applicable by any citizen or moderator, when they don't like the opinons expressed. They must be illegal or blasphemous to be actionable and prohibitable. And there is a process for this.

Please familiarize yourself with the list guidelines, which remain in effect this day, which apply to you Cornelianus, whether you are on duty or not.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/praetor-2004-02-04.html

In either case, given the above presentation, I could 'imagine' that this type of conduct from you is 'scaremongering' of its own right. You have no right to restrict my freedom of speech tigher than the constitution or the list guidelines do.. Again, please clarify that you are not doing this as list moderator, and I will feel comfortable ignoring the literature below.



pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gn. Julius Caesar Cornelianus"
wrote:

Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia,

I am hardly emotionally
charged. But if that is how you take my words then so be it. I'm
not going to argue over how you should take my words. Yes I saw
your post with links to appropriate lex and brief statement....no
opinions...this is how this should've been done from the get-go with
January 29th as end date. Now may the citizens decide FOR
THEMSELVES.....

Cornelianus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- End forwarded message ---







---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32777 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: ERRATA CORRIGE - Re: A Second Quaestor Vacancy
Salvete Omnes,
I respectfully correct my Illustrus colleague Consul Laenas.
We can't accept other candidacies because officially there is no
vacant places. In fact followign the laws of Nova Roma the
resignation of illustrus Quintus Bianchius Rufinius will be official
in 9 days.
In any way, all the interested candidates for the Office of Quaestor
could candidate theirself during the next Comitia Populi Tributa
which would be organized as soon as possible.

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
------------------------------
NOVA ROMA
------------------------------
Senior Consul
Senator
Legatus Italiae - http://italia.novaroma.org
Lictor et Scriba
Pater Familiae Gens Apula - http://italia.novaroma.org/apula/
Dominus Factionis Russatae - http://aediles.novaroma.org/russata/
Magister Academiae Italicae -
http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica/


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:
>
> G. Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.
>
> Because of the resignation of Quaestor Quintus Bianchius Rufinus,
we
> have a second vacancy in the Quaestorship which needs to be filled.
>
> There is still time for a cive interested in serving to declare
before
> the Comitia is called to vote.
>
> Please submit your candidacy to Consul Apulus Caesar at:
>
> fraelov@y...
>
> or send it to me at
>
> ksterne@b...
>
> and I will forward it.
>
> Vles bene.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32778 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Salve!
salve Mr. Silva,

welcome in Nova Roma, I hope you'll find here what you're searching
about Ancient Rome.

For ay doubts or questions, please contact me, I'll happy to help
you.

Vale
Fr Apulus Caesar
Consul

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Henrique Cardozo Silva
<cardozo_silva@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Nova Romans!
>
> Let me introduce myself. I´m Fernando Cardozo Silva, Brazilian, 20
years old, and It´s honor meeting you.
>
> Ave!
>
> F. Cardozo Silva
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o
discador do Yahoo! agora.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 32779 From: FAC Date: 2005-01-22
Subject: Re: Cista now functional
salve Calvus,
thank you very much for your excellent job and for the help by
Senator Germanicus
I would only inform you that there is a little error at
http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ : the deadline of the
Comitia is not on 00:01 XXVIII December, it's on 00:01 XXVIII
JANUARY.

Thank you again.

Vale
FR. Apulus Caesar
Consul


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@c...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> The Cista is now up and working properly. If you received an
error
> message when you went to vote, please log in and vote again.
Anyone
> receiving an error message did not have a ballot cast.
>
> My thanks and gratitude to Marcus Octavius Germanicus (the
physical
> custodian of the server hardware) for his quick response.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus