>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> One fun thing for the guys of Ancient Rome was that

> big age diffence between the men and women and

> been interesting to have a child bride half your

> near that sort of situation once in my life when a

> lined me up with their daughter who was above 18 but

> junior. My sister dragged me out for some drinks and

> shaking her head in dismay or gisgust she said, "

> grey hair and acne just don't mix!"
>
> I see now that she was right since other friends and

> married much younger girls overseas and what she

> more often than not things didn't work out for them

> Oh well, perhaps the social cliamate was much

> Rome and this situation was more of the norm of the

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> >
> > M. Porcius Cato the famous Stoic who modeled his

> > ways of ancient Rome had a wife Marcia whom he

> she
> > was devoted to him. The orater Hortensius an old

> Marcia
> > and wanted to have a child with her.
> > He asked Cato for Marcia and Cato gave her to

> > with Hortensius until his death and then

> > Was Cato virtuous in giving Marcia to

> > Do you think Marcia was similarly virtuous?
> >
> > Enjoy! This is a real historical episode, so

> > optime vale
> > M.Hortensia Maior TRP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> >
> >
> >
> >

> ----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salvete,
> I should probably leave this alone but, I can't. My personal
feelings lean toward those of the Boni. I do not believe them to be
women haters and I feel that the real point is missed when charges
like that get tossed around. in this modern age the reconstruction
of Roman anything is going to be tricky. First of all women in
Ancient Rome were in a completely different sphere than the men.
Everyone must admit that. Secondly, the women who were praised or
held in high esteem are the women that played the hand the men dealt
them, played it well, and then won. Those women would not stand up
and shout for women's rights. The thought would not have occurred
to them. They were happily ruling in their own sphere.
> Understanding the ancient mind is a very hard thing to do from a
modern perspective. I'm trying and I will continue to try.
> As an end note I don't think the Boni or the Roman men of history
are terrified of 'girl cooties'. There is simply a proper place and
time for everything.
> Valete,
> Servia Iulia Caesaris
Metelliana

>
> Salvete,
>
> Two others have answered well regarding a more

> so I won't write that one again, however I would

> that the genie is out of the bottle. We are not

> even Shakers..and it isn't likely that any major

> are going to slide into utter meekness any time in

> We keep saying that we are the heirs, the cultural

> We are, in that we are the natural heirs to the

> version of it. There is, however, a real set of

> culture and they are Italians! There are reminders

> place there, from the Vatican and it's inhabitants

> the manners of the countryside. They are, obviously,

> by the weakening of the individual instituted by the

> church, (not a slur and of value sociologically and

> topic), whose home is so nearby, however even there

> subjugated.
> Time passes, progress is made and people change.

> trying to create NR as an heir to the RA, we can

> how the people who really were there progressed,

> becoming Christian.
> If you wish to be meek and mild, never speak up to

> (meaning men) and not hold office or have self

> that is your choice. It isn't going to be a popular

> others though. I'm sure you will be praised by being

> some...it won't be me...but that is your choice.
> I'm not sure how you live your life, but I

> like that. Not with the need to be employed and be

> well as military leader, interact firmly with

> schools, instruct the children with confident

> importantly, actually drive on the freeway could I

> that mentality.
> We have to keep things like that in mind when we

> are to be treated in NR. You don't expect her to

> bacon then not only cook it, but serve it on bended

> bed hungry on top of it.
> Terribly sorry for the long-winded response, but

> bother me inordinately and this version of meekness

> of the Christian-ized version of what like for the

>
> Valete,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...>

> > Salvete,
> > I should probably leave this alone but, I can't.

> feelings lean toward those of the Boni. I do not

> women haters and I feel that the real point is

> like that get tossed around. in this modern age the

> of Roman anything is going to be tricky. First of

> Ancient Rome were in a completely different sphere

> Everyone must admit that. Secondly, the women who

> held in high esteem are the women that played the

> them, played it well, and then won. Those women

> and shout for women's rights. The thought would not

> to them. They were happily ruling in their own

> > Understanding the ancient mind is a very hard

> modern perspective. I'm trying and I will continue

> > As an end note I don't think the Boni or the Roman

> are terrified of 'girl cooties'. There is simply a

> time for everything.
> > Valete,
> > Servia Iulia

> Metelliana
>
>
>
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
> Excuse me. I didn't mean that Cato wasn't virtuous. Just that I
see that story in different light. What I've read about Cato I've
read in biographies of other prominent men like Caesar, Pompey and
Cicero. I know that Cato was a virtuous man, maybe too much so for
his contemporaries. That is why when he got Marcia back with her
inheritance he was attacked. "Caesar also accused Cato of avarice.
That was given as the motive for his divorce of his wife so that she
could marry Hortensius and his subsequent remarriage with her when
Hortensius left her a rich widow." Party Politics in the Age of
Caesar, Taylor, p.171.
> If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I wouldn't have a
choice. But I can't help to agree with Caesar. Doesn't that seem
like an odd situation to you? It doesn't fit with his character but
he did it. We all make mistakes.
> Vale,
> Servia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae sd;
> Salve;
> Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I think Metellina you
should
> give this some deeper thought.
> You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny that either Cato
or
> Marcia posess them.
> Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue that you should
examine.
> If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a stranger would you
> obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an answer in without
> examining your premises. Think, analyze, critique, especially
your
> own opinions.
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
> I'm already familiar with the story of Cato and Marcia. I do not
> think I would consider either of them virtuous but, I have a
> different take on the story. Correct me if I'm wrong but,
Hortensius
> was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia retained his money.
> Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this was even used against
> Cato when people tried attacking his character. So, although
they
> may have loved one another, I believe it was a money scam.
> > Vale,
> > Servia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
<SNIP>
> If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I wouldn't have a
choice. But I can't help to agree with Caesar. Doesn't that seem
like an odd situation to you? It doesn't fit with his character but
he did it. We all make mistakes.
> Vale,
> Servia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae sd;
> Salve;
> Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I think Metellina you
should
> give this some deeper thought.
> You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny that either Cato
or
> Marcia posess them.
> Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue that you should
examine.
> If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a stranger would
you
> obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an answer in without
> examining your premises. Think, analyze, critique, especially
your
> own opinions.
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
> I'm already familiar with the story of Cato and Marcia. I do
not
> think I would consider either of them virtuous but, I have a
> different take on the story. Correct me if I'm wrong but,
Hortensius
> was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia retained his money.
> Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this was even used
against
> Cato when people tried attacking his character. So, although
they
> may have loved one another, I believe it was a money scam.
> > Vale,
> > Servia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
>
> Salvete
> I don't believe
> consensus is achieved through the vote in the comitiae. The
comitiae are
> the instrument through which the final decision is made, yea or
nay. The
> contio is where they discuss the merits of the proposal itself.
The
> consensus as to what is being voted on comes before that time; in
> discussions private and public, in villas and public baths, in the
> streets and shops, and, in Nova Roma, here on the Nova-Roma email
list.
> Word does filter up. I respectfully submit that doing so, and
> encouraging it, is a wiser course than dropping fully-formed
legislation
> out of nowhere. It's not required, but it could be
considered "best
> practice".
> Actually, let's take this one step further. Right now the advice
of the
> Senate means nothing.
> It is the People who are final decision, and often the People do
not
> understand half the things they are voting on. Also since voting
has declined in
> Nova Roma, it would appear that they no have wish to.
> The People trust their elected magistrates to do the right thing.
After all
> why elect them? As Apollonius Cordus so eloquently pointed out,
the
> Magistrates have no reason to act in the people interests except to
be elected for
> another office. There was an unspoken trust I assume that we
operate under, but
> none that is codified. That was a mistake.
>
>
> That being said, I have a few ideas of my own, first on the cursus
> honorum...
>
> * In Roma Antiqua, it was required for a candidate for office to
go
> through a stint in the army. Naturally, we don't have such a thing.
I
> would suggest a minimum time as a Citizen, say 1 year. I could even
see
> 2 at this stage (maybe save that for another change in a couple of
> years). What should not be possible is for someone to run for
office
> before they had had a chance to vote in at least 1 year-end
election.
> So, 1 year minimum as full (taxes paid) citizen.
> Before you Nova Hommes came along, we had discussed this problem.
(Gee
> imagine that)
> When Nova Roma started there was no tradition, no honorum no
anything.
> Anybody
> who wanted to work on the project found themselves in a position
of power
> and were rewarded.
> We had 19 year old female Provincial Praetors, 16 year old male
Provincial
> Praetors.
> But that was at the beginning. We have 7 years under our belts,
and we can
> finally add
> some structure.
>
> * Quaestor must preceed praetor, tribune, and aedile.
>
> We have always assumed this after 2001. However most Consuls
myself included
> came from the Aedile's Office. Why? Because we are the most visible
to the
> People. On the face of it, the Consulship turns out to be a
popularity
> contest.
>
> The honorum made sense from the Roman POV. Quaestor allowed one to
get the
> hang of Roman Politics, Praetor its laws. Quaestor was the entry
level for
> serious Republican politics.
>
> Here in Nova Roma, we went a different way. We allowed the forming
of
> personal groups. These “cohors” allowed political seasoning but
also made the
> candidate bound to the man who allowed him to work with him and not
Rome. We had
> the late Republic recreated perfectly, except we missed the early
and middle
> part. A lot of Nova Roma observers (mostly college professors) saw
this very
> thing and warned us against it. As did some astute Nova Roma
citizens most
> who have since resigned.
>
> Aedile should have nothig to do with our honorum. Aedileships
should be open
> to the young, since it is the young who have the best ideas of how
to
> entertain our populace of a virtual nation
> Also the Aediles will gain respect for the Religio Romana as they
are
> charged with setting up
> the public celebrations for the various feasts of the Gods. This
also allows
> our youth to do something, since they are used to the fast track,
something
> the honorium is designed not to allow.
> The same with the lesser positions. Youth should occupy these as
well. After
> all if they slack off
> they get fired. Face it, most magistrates don't need assistants.
This is
> simple ego stroking.
>
> So Quaestor is the start of honorum. Applicant must have held
Roman
> citizenship two years and be visible, i.e. posting in the Forum,
taking part in
> events, holding minor posts an Aedileship, etc.
> Minimum age adult, 21 years old. And Quaestors must be evaluated
at the end
> of their term.
> I did nothing during my Quaestorship. Literally I was never called
on to
> work. But my Questorship was at the end of my political career so
I guess they
> wanted to leave the old man alone. (Grin).
>
> Praetorship is next. A Quaestor wanting to be a Praetor will have
to serve
> as a Praetor's Quaestor.
> The reason is obvious. Minimum age 30. (Do you want some 22 year
old snot
> nose kid presiding over your trial?) Praetorship means automatic
enterence into
> the Senate. Four Preators seem excessive considering our current
population.
>
> Consul is the final step of the honorum. He must have followed the
honorum
> of course AND be a provincial Praetor. (more on that later.) His
minimum age
> has to be 35. Yes I know we have had younger Consuls and look how
well they
> did.
>
> Censor. Censor really was never part of the honorum. Yet only
Consuls
> apparently can be Censors.
> Livius has a story about a Praetor who became Censor but that was
an
> emergency as I recall.
>
> The Senate. We cannot have a top heavy Senate. Right now we have
400 active
> citizens give or take 50. The Senate functions best at 23 members
with this
> populace.
> I'd say we cap the enterance to just two a year. If both Praetors
are new,
> that ends the intake for that year.
>
> Provincial Praetors as Senators. Yes, Yes and we finally have
enought to do
> so. All Senators should have Praetorship. I.E., to oversee their
province were
> they live. Because of the internet they can do this. If they
refuse to be
> involved in day to day activities (which speaks volumes of their
interest in
> Nova Roma) they can appoint Legates.
> The original requirement that Provincial Praetorship of three
years should
> be set aside.
> Sulla instituted that because we wanted to reward merit, three
years of
> continuous service seemed meritorious enough. However we assumed
if that they
> were politically bent they would have entered the honorum and
started their
> climb to political office and achieve membership that way.
>
> I would echo Sulla's original idea of leaving off a year between
the office
> of Praetor and the office of Consul, if the age requirement is met.
I also
> believe that we are too young a entity to allow a constant infusion
of new blood
> in our Magistrates. Rome had the same people in their offices over
and over
> again for a reason. Continuity.
>
> Finally the College of Pontiffs and the Senate.
> I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject of the college,
and it is
> apparent that all members of the college were Senators except the
Reginia and
> the V Maximia. I see no reason why this is not the case today.
Currently in
> the College the bulk of the members are Senators, but that is
because most of
> us were interested in all aspects of Rome and were here at the
beginning. So
> uit is a luckly councidence that the College has a presence in the
Senate,
> not ordained. I believe it should be ordained.
>
> Now, I can just hear our young People saying "Bummer! I can't be
Consul
> until 35? That's old!" Well exactly. NR is NOT a video game for
your benefit. By
> the time you are standing for Consul you will have been seasoned,
everybody
> will have a good idea what your politics are, and there will be no
surprises in
> store for a gullible Populace.
> That is my view. Thanks for listening.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I see that Sulla's name has come up on a few posts over the last
> month or so. I think we should, in his case take a wait and see
> attitude because I have the gut feeling he could be in rough shape
> healthwise and may recieve some awful news one of these days.
>
> Sulla was once upset when he misunderstood a note, thinking I was
> going to quit NR and he personally emailed me to say no one in

> right mind "ever" gave up Roman citizenship and I should

> Furthermore I always found Sulla to be more of an "Uncle Buck"

> character and I am confident both his friends and foes know

> well that if just disillusionment with NR was his main issue, he
> would not let himself be cheated by leaving for I could just see

> in the Emperor's throne in the arena, laurels on his head laughing
> away, rubbing his hands and enjoying the wine and sweet meats as

> razzed his foes in both the back alley and the main list.
>
> Based on my thoughts above, I pray things are well and hope for

> safe return someday.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus<mailto:christer.edling@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Warning: please show restraint


Salvete Quirites!

Ex Officio Censoris

The Censores have sent warnings to certain officials who have tended
to act contrary to public morality. They appear to be of different
political tendencies. It is time to cool down and start acting with
more restraint!

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Censores, Novae Romae
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of Roman Times Quartely
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> MAGNA MATER PROJECT BULLETIN JANUARY 2758 A.U.C.
>
>

>
> Salvete Novae Romae!
>
> And we are in yet another year of working toward the goals of the

>
> We have in addition, the services of our Aedilician Quaestor for

>
> This year's cohors were officially named by Lucius Iulius Sulla

>
> The staff for the Magna Mater Project this year includes:
>
> Caius Curius Saturninus (Staff Assistant for Graphics and Editing)
> Pompeia Minucia Tiberia (Staff Assistant for Fundraising

> Francisus Apulus Caesar Consul
> Vestinia Caprenia
> Gaius Iulius Caesar Cornelianus
> Gaius Moravius Laureatus Amoricus
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Manius Constantinus Serapio
> Marca Hortensia Maior
> Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
> Servius Equitius Mercurius Troianus
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
>
>

>
>
>
> MAGNA MATER GENERAL PLAN
>
>
> Listed below are the general goals being worked on to the achieve

>
> i. Official Website
>
> Thanks to the work of the administration of Marcus Iulius

>
> A domain has recently been purchased for hosting of our official

>
> The task which lies ahead is to develop the site in cooperation

>
>
>
> ii. Material to Promote This Project
> ....leaflets
> ....publications
> ....business cards
> ....DVD:
> To keep you updated on key developments from last year....

>
> iii. A 6-month scholarship for a student of the University of Rome

>
> iv. Multimedia CD ROM
> There are three viable options:
> a) simple CD of presentation of the Project (10-50 pictures, 5-20

> b) generic content CD (100-200 pictures, 25-70 text pages, music

> c) professional CD (cost would be higher than the above:

>
>

>
>
> UNIVERSITY OF ROME AND SOPRINTENDENZA COOPERATION
>
>
> Our primary contact individual with the University of Rome La

>
> http://antichita.let.uniroma1.it/def_eng.htm
>
> Our website texts and accompanying graphics are currently being

>
>

>
>
> COHORS AEDILES WEBSITE
>
> For any inquiries concerning the work of the Curule Aedile or the

>
>
> The address MagnaMater@n... remains available as well.
>
> Please visit http://www.insulaumbra.com/aediles/perusianus for a

>
>
>

>
>
> FINANCIAL STATUS AND FUNDRAISING
>
> Currently, our balance is $679.66 EUROS, accounting for monetary

>
> All donations to this exciting initiative are very much

>
>
> .If you wish to help out with fundraising, yet don't have time to

>
>

>
>
> PROMOTION OF THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT
>
> ........IV Conventus Novae Romae 2758 Roma Italia!
>
> Your chance to convene with other Novae Romae in the Eternal

> And...your chance to tour many of the city's ancient sites,

> August 4-11
>
> Please visit the main website page for the link to the details
>
> http://www.novaroma.org
>
> Fill out your passport application if you do not have one, and

>
>
>
>
> ____________________________Fini
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae et Omnes;
>
> The below portion of your post is almost..well, completely,
> irresistable. Would you really do that? ]

> When did the law change that placed the Censors office in
> change of list moderation?

> Stop being disingenuous Tiberius.

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS"
> <cybernaut911@y...> wrote:
> >
> > M. CALIDIVS GRACCHVS QVIRITIBVS S.P.D.
> >
> > SALVETE
> >
> > I wish to echo the sentiments and wise counsel of my friend
> > honourable PAVLINVS. Few could truthfully question the
> > contribution and commitment SVLLA has made to our RES PVBLICA.
> >
> > QVIRITES, should we not - each of us - send our best wishes to

> > and pray to IVPPITER the best and the greatest on his behalf.
> >
> > VALETE
> >
> >
> > M.CALIDIVS M.f.M.n.GRACCHVS
> >
> > TVVS IN SODILICIO RES PVBLICA ROMANAE
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Indeed yes! I have not heard from mi amice Lucius Cornelius Sulla
> Felix for some months. I have heard, however, that he is in poor

>
> My prayers for one, are with Sulla and his family.
>
> Valete,
>
> G. Popillius Laenas

> Salve Marinus,

> ....You two Censores
> are only proving us right by semi-veiled threats of
> notas for public immorality against those of us who
> are courageous enough to speak out against your
> actions.

----- Original Message -----
From: aoctaviaindagatrix
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)



Salve S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae et Omnes;

The below portion of your post is almost..well, completely,
irresistable. Would you really do that? Suppose your Pater found the
most physically repulsive, cantankerous, old, explosively-tempered
and all around ill favored man to wed you to. Suppose this man also
believed in the strictest possible definition of re-creating RA in
NR, would you really wed him and be the picture of female
subservience and put yourself under this hideous man's absolute
power?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
<SNIP>
> If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I wouldn't have a
choice. But I can't help to agree with Caesar. Doesn't that seem
like an odd situation to you? It doesn't fit with his character but
he did it. We all make mistakes.
> Vale,
> Servia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae sd;
> Salve;
> Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I think Metellina you
should
> give this some deeper thought.
> You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny that either Cato
or
> Marcia posess them.
> Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue that you should
examine.
> If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a stranger would
you
> obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an answer in without
> examining your premises. Think, analyze, critique, especially
your
> own opinions.
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
> I'm already familiar with the story of Cato and Marcia. I do
not
> think I would consider either of them virtuous but, I have a
> different take on the story. Correct me if I'm wrong but,
Hortensius
> was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia retained his money.
> Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this was even used
against
> Cato when people tried attacking his character. So, although
they
> may have loved one another, I believe it was a money scam.
> > Vale,
> > Servia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: aoctaviaindagatrix
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)



Salve S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae et Omnes;

The below portion of your post is almost..well, completely,
irresistable. Would you really do that? Suppose your Pater found the
most physically repulsive, cantankerous, old, explosively-tempered
and all around ill favored man to wed you to. Suppose this man also
believed in the strictest possible definition of re-creating RA in
NR, would you really wed him and be the picture of female
subservience and put yourself under this hideous man's absolute
power?

Vale,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salve,
<SNIP>
> If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I wouldn't have a
choice. But I can't help to agree with Caesar. Doesn't that seem
like an odd situation to you? It doesn't fit with his character but
he did it. We all make mistakes.
> Vale,
> Servia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae sd;
> Salve;
> Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I think Metellina you
should
> give this some deeper thought.
> You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny that either Cato
or
> Marcia posess them.
> Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue that you should
examine.
> If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a stranger would
you
> obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an answer in without
> examining your premises. Think, analyze, critique, especially
your
> own opinions.
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
> I'm already familiar with the story of Cato and Marcia. I do
not
> think I would consider either of them virtuous but, I have a
> different take on the story. Correct me if I'm wrong but,
Hortensius
> was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia retained his money.
> Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this was even used
against
> Cato when people tried attacking his character. So, although
they
> may have loved one another, I believe it was a money scam.
> > Vale,
> > Servia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
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of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "raymond fuentes" <praefectus2324@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)


>
> Caesar had no room to talk. He would have made the
> Trojan man a household icon. Certain aspects of Roman
> 101 I find irritating.I refuse to swap lovers-sacra!
> --- immaculo@... <immaculo@...>
> wrote:
>> Salve,
>> Excuse me. I didn't mean that Cato wasn't virtuous.
> Just that I see that story in different light. What
> I've read about Cato I've read in biographies of other
> prominent men like Caesar, Pompey and Cicero. I know
> that Cato was a virtuous man, maybe too much so for
> his contemporaries. That is why when he got Marcia
> back with her inheritance he was attacked. "Caesar
> also accused Cato of avarice. That was given as the
> motive for his divorce of his wife so that she could
> marry Hortensius and his subsequent remarriage with
> her when Hortensius left her a rich widow." Party
> Politics in the Age of Caesar, Taylor, p.171.
>> If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I
> wouldn't have a choice. But I can't help to agree
> with Caesar. Doesn't that seem like an odd situation
> to you? It doesn't fit with his character but he did
> it. We all make mistakes.
>>
> Vale,
>>
> Servia
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Maior
>> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
>> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a
> grip, folks)
>>
>>
>>
>> M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae
> sd;
>> Salve;
>> Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I think
> Metellina you should
>> give this some deeper thought.
>> You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny
> that either Cato or
>> Marcia posess them.
>> Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue that
> you should examine.
>> If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a
> stranger would you
>> obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an answer
> in without
>> examining your premises. Think, analyze,
> critique, especially your
>> own opinions.
>> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>>
>>
>> I'm already familiar with the story of Cato and
> Marcia. I do not
>> think I would consider either of them virtuous
> but, I have a
>> different take on the story. Correct me if I'm
> wrong but, Hortensius
>> was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia
> retained his money.
>> Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this was
> even used against
>> Cato when people tried attacking his character.
> So, although they
>> may have loved one another, I believe it was a
> money scam.
>> >
> Vale,
>> >
> Servia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>>
>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>>
>
>
> =====
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: aoctaviaindagatrix
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:44 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Get a grip, folks



Salvete,

Two others have answered well regarding a more popular situation
so I won't write that one again, however I would like to point out
that the genie is out of the bottle. We are not Amish or Quakers or
even Shakers..and it isn't likely that any major portion of women
are going to slide into utter meekness any time in the future.
We keep saying that we are the heirs, the cultural heirs, of RA.
We are, in that we are the natural heirs to the pre-Christian
version of it. There is, however, a real set of heirs to that
culture and they are Italians! There are reminders all over the
place there, from the Vatican and it's inhabitants to the cities and
the manners of the countryside. They are, obviously, well influenced
by the weakening of the individual instituted by the early Catholic
church, (not a slur and of value sociologically and a whole separate
topic), whose home is so nearby, however even there women aren't
subjugated.
Time passes, progress is made and people change. While we are
trying to create NR as an heir to the RA, we can learn a lot from
how the people who really were there progressed, even in the face of
becoming Christian.
If you wish to be meek and mild, never speak up to your "betters"
(meaning men) and not hold office or have self determination, then
that is your choice. It isn't going to be a popular choice for many
others though. I'm sure you will be praised by being that way by
some...it won't be me...but that is your choice.
I'm not sure how you live your life, but I couldn't live a life
like that. Not with the need to be employed and be an executive as
well as military leader, interact firmly with teachers at the kids'
schools, instruct the children with confident guidance and, most
importantly, actually drive on the freeway could I function with
that mentality.
We have to keep things like that in mind when we direct how women
are to be treated in NR. You don't expect her to bring home the
bacon then not only cook it, but serve it on bended knee and go to
bed hungry on top of it.
Terribly sorry for the long-winded response, but these posts
bother me inordinately and this version of meekness offered smacks
of the Christian-ized version of what like for the ancients was like.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> Salvete,
> I should probably leave this alone but, I can't. My personal
feelings lean toward those of the Boni. I do not believe them to be
women haters and I feel that the real point is missed when charges
like that get tossed around. in this modern age the reconstruction
of Roman anything is going to be tricky. First of all women in
Ancient Rome were in a completely different sphere than the men.
Everyone must admit that. Secondly, the women who were praised or
held in high esteem are the women that played the hand the men dealt
them, played it well, and then won. Those women would not stand up
and shout for women's rights. The thought would not have occurred
to them. They were happily ruling in their own sphere.
> Understanding the ancient mind is a very hard thing to do from a
modern perspective. I'm trying and I will continue to try.
> As an end note I don't think the Boni or the Roman men of history
are terrified of 'girl cooties'. There is simply a proper place and
time for everything.
> Valete,
> Servia Iulia Caesaris
Metelliana






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry pitifully like

> Servia
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> M.Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae spd;
> Salve;
> your answer below indicates, that you think Nova Roma is a some
sort
> of role-playing game, quite the opposite. I recommend that you
speak
> in private with your paterfamilias and disabuse yourself of this
idea.
>
> I would also recommend that you do not address anyone or sign
> yourself by your praenomen. You may refer to someone by his or her
> cognomen, nomen + cognomen or praenomen +nomen, always sign
yourself
> by your full name.
> vale
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> > No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry pitifully
like
> the good widow. Then after everything has died down, frolic away
> with my young lover.
> > Servia
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<mailto:gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Warning: yes please show restraint senior Censor




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve Maior.
>
> She does not view it as such. You may think she does, but she does
> not. Hers was a light hearted reply to a thread that is already
> beginning to slide towards the edge.
>
> I will speak to her, but the text of my enails will be about

> being entrapped in threads like this with some very adroit and

> motivated posters.
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> >
> > M.Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae spd;
> > Salve;
> > your answer below indicates, that you think Nova Roma is a some
> sort
> > of role-playing game, quite the opposite. I recommend that you
> speak
> > in private with your paterfamilias and disabuse yourself of this
> idea.
> >
> > I would also recommend that you do not address anyone or sign
> > yourself by your praenomen. You may refer to someone by his or

> > cognomen, nomen + cognomen or praenomen +nomen, always sign
> yourself
> > by your full name.
> > vale
> > M. Hortensia Maior TRP
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> > > No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry pitifully
> like
> > the good widow. Then after everything has died down, frolic

> > with my young lover.
> > > Servia
> > >

> I vaguely remember reading somewhere that when colonies or puppet
> states got too rebellious in a mouthy sort of way as well as
> fortifying and building arms etc, the Roman government would usually
> send three warnings before lowerin the boom so to speak. That seemed
> rather fair and gernerous in my opinion and I was wondering if any
> fellow citizens had more information on this practice.

> > I vaguely remember reading somewhere that when colonies or puppet
> > states got too rebellious in a mouthy sort of way as well as
> > fortifying and building arms etc, the Roman government would

> > send three warnings before lowerin the boom so to speak. That

> > rather fair and gernerous in my opinion and I was wondering if

> > fellow citizens had more information on this practice.
>
> My conjecture on the matter is that it has to do with a practice of

> Law (which gets many of its practices from a more archaic civil

> thirty-three day period which Fetials gave an offending nation to

> with the demands of Rome came in three periods. After the demands

> made, the count began. Eleven days after that, the Fetials made

> again. Eleven days later (day 22), the Fetials made final demand.

> eleven more days (day 33) the demands were not met, the Fetials

> Rome, reported to the Senate, and waited for further instruction.

> is that the three warnings here may be a direct shot from (or to)

> warnings you mention. But that's sheer conjecture.
>
> Vale,
>
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> Fetial

----- Original Message -----
From: Maior
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)



M.Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae spd;
Salve;
your answer below indicates, that you think Nova Roma is a some sort
of role-playing game, quite the opposite. I recommend that you speak
in private with your paterfamilias and disabuse yourself of this idea.

I would also recommend that you do not address anyone or sign
yourself by your praenomen. You may refer to someone by his or her
cognomen, nomen + cognomen or praenomen +nomen, always sign yourself
by your full name.
vale
M. Hortensia Maior TRP


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...> wrote:
> No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry pitifully like
the good widow. Then after everything has died down, frolic away
with my young lover.
> Servia
>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima <violetphearsen@y...> wrote:
> gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>
> OSD G. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> uhhhh....I don't drive. Will there be any cabbies Left Behind?
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
> Salve, Gaius Equitius Cato
>
> Now, what do you need with cabbies? I thought you had a horse?
> I have one, so I'm not worried. Let the End come. My horse will
survive all.
>
> Bene vale
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima <violetphearsen@y...> wrote:
> Salve, Gaius Equitius Cato
>
> LOL
> I don't know about my Romulus. Half the time, he is a good horse,
but the rest of the time he's a little devil. Hmmm......guess I'll
just have to wait and see.
>
> Valete
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>
> gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Maxima Messalina!
>
> I'm just afraid that since Nichomachus is such a GOOD horse, he'll
> probably get taken up, leaving me behind and whinnying his laughter
> hysterically the whole time...
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima <violetphearsen@y...> wrote:
> > gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> >
> > OSD G. Equitius Cato
> >
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
> > uhhhh....I don't drive. Will there be any cabbies Left Behind?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > Salve, Gaius Equitius Cato
> >
> > Now, what do you need with cabbies? I thought you had a horse?
> > I have one, so I'm not worried. Let the End come. My horse will
> survive all.
> >
> > Bene vale
> >
> > Maxima Valeria Messallina
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry

> Servia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: aoctaviaindagatrix
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:32 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a

>
>
>
> Salve S. Iuliae Caesaris Metellinae et Omnes;
>
> The below portion of your post is almost..well,

> irresistable. Would you really do that? Suppose

> most physically repulsive, cantankerous, old,

> and all around ill favored man to wed you to.

> believed in the strictest possible definition of

> NR, would you really wed him and be the picture of

> subservience and put yourself under this hideous

> power?
>
> Vale,
> Annia Octavia Indagatrix
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <immaculo@b...>

> > Salve,
> <SNIP>
> > If my paterfamilias gave me away in marriage I

> choice. But I can't help to agree with Caesar.

> like an odd situation to you? It doesn't fit with

> he did it. We all make mistakes.
> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Maior
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:54 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get

> >
> >
> >
> > M. Hortensia Maior S. Iuliae Caesaris

> > Salve;
> > Cato was famous as an incorruptible man, I

> should
> > give this some deeper thought.
> > You profess to admire Roman virtues but deny

> or
> > Marcia posess them.
> > Perhaps it is your own definition of virtue

> examine.
> > If you paterfamilias gave you in marriage to a

> you
> > obey? Don't be facile, don't throw out an

> > examining your premises. Think, analyze,

> your
> > own opinions.
> > M. Hortensia Maior TRP
> >
> >
> > I'm already familiar with the story of Cato

> not
> > think I would consider either of them virtuous

> > different take on the story. Correct me if

> Hortensius
> > was a very rich man. Upon his death Marcia

> > Which in turn went to Cato. I believe this

> against
> > Cato when people tried attacking his

> they
> > may have loved one another, I believe it was a

> > >

> > >

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: raymond fuentes
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Women in RA (was:Re: Get a grip, folks)


Outstanding! A lady that knows her history...always a
turn on for me. BRAVO!
--- immaculo@... <immaculo@...>
wrote:
> No I would Not. I would probably poison him and cry
pitifully like the good widow. Then after everything
has died down, frolic away with my young lover.
> Servia



=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> OSD G. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Today is postridie Kalendas Februarius; the day is Nefastus and it

> a dies ater.
>
> "Be present O Queen of the Heavenly Gods, we Your chaste daughters
> pray and bring forth this venerable gift, we, all the Roman women of
> noble name, have woven this mantle with our own hands, embroidered

> for You with threads of gold. This veil You shall wear for now, O
> Iuno, until we mothers grow less fearful for our sons. But if You

> grant that we may repel these African storm clouds from our land,

> shall set upon You a flashing crown of diverse gems set in gold." -

> Silius Italicus, Punica 7.78-85
>
> "Leve fit, quod bene fertur, onus." (The burden which is borne well
> becomes light) - Ovid
>
>
>
> "However this may be, the Sabines were in possession of the citadel.
> And they would not come down from it the next day, though the Roman
> army was drawn up in battle array over the whole of the ground

> the Palatine and the Capitoline hill, until, exasperated at the loss
> of their citadel and determined to recover it, the Romans mounted to
> the attack. Advancing before the rest, Mettius Curtius, on the side

> the Sabines, and Hostius Hostilius, on the side of the Romans,

> in single combat. Hostius, fighting on disadvantageous ground,

> the fortunes of Rome by his intrepid bravery, but at last he fell;

> Roman line broke and fled to what was then the gate of the Palatine.
> Even Romulus was being swept away by the crowd of fugitives, and
> lifting up his hands to heaven he exclaimed: "Jupiter, it was thy

> that I obeyed when I laid here on the Palatine the earliest
> foundations of the City. Now the Sabines hold its citadel, having
> bought it by a bribe, and coming thence have seized the valley and

> pressing hitherwards in battle. Do thou, Father of gods and men,

> hence our foes, banish terror from Roman hearts, and stay our

> flight! Here do I vow a temple to thee, 'Jove the Stayer,' as a
> memorial for the generations to come that it is through thy present
> help that the City has been saved." Then, as though he had become
> aware that his prayer had been heard, he cried, "Back, Romans!

> Optimus Maximus bids you stand and renew the battle." They stopped

> though commanded by a voice from heaven - Romulus dashed up to the
> foremost line, just as Mettius Curtius had run down from the citadel
> in front of the Sabines and driven the Romans in headlong flight

> the whole of the ground now occupied by the Forum. He was now not

> from the gate of the Palatine, and was shouting: "We have conquered
> our faithless hosts, our cowardly foes; now they know that to carry
> off maidens is a very different thing from fighting with men." In

> midst of these vaunts Romulus, with a compact body of valiant

> charged down on him. Mettius happened to be on horseback, so he was
> the more easily driven back, the Romans followed in pursuit, and,
> inspired by the courage of their king, the rest of the Roman army
> routed the Sabines. Mettius, unable to control his horse, maddened

> the noise of his pursuers, plunged into a morass. The danger of

> general drew off the attention of the Sabines for a moment from the
> battle; they called out and made signals to encourage him, so,
> animated to fresh efforts, he succeeded in extricating himself.
> Thereupon the Romans and Sabines renewed the fighting in the middle

> the valley, but the fortune of Rome was in the ascendant." - Livy,
> History of Rome 1.12
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato

>
> Salve,
> That is beautiful.
> All I did for the Kalends is double fold.. though sorry it really
> doesn't have anything to do with your post *lol*.
> I finalized my oath to Vesta to retain a state of virginity as well
> as resuming an even older similar oath to Diana that I held when I
> was a teenager.
> I picked today most especially for this function.
>
> Anyway thanks for posting something else meaningful for this day :)
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa

> attempt to intimidate protected political speech, aimed at muzzling
> those who oppose the censors by threatening them with proscription,
> and in violation of article II.B.4 of the Nova Roma Constitution:
>
> >
> I shall be consulting legal counsel and am prepared to avail myself

> the full range of Nova Roman and macronational redress in the event
> that I am sanctioned. I advise anyone similarly threatened to do
> likewise.
>
> I call upon the Senate as the macronational board of directors of

> Roma, Inc., to investigate and sanction the censors for what amounts
> to a threat of proscription.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Pontifex et Flamen Quirinalis
> (Dr. Gregory Rose)

>
> Salve Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Staboni,
>
>
> >
> > I wonder, with respect to the promulgating Tribune, what manner

> > urgency, if any, prevails that you could not have been left to
> > undertake this Consul as you said you would. And indeed, it

> > to me that this is one of the shortest contios I've seen. What's
> > the hurry?
>
> Laenas: I do not know. It appears Tribune Albucius had these ideas
> working for some time.
>
> >
> > I am confused about the presiding comitia, but I've taken that
> > question to private mail, for my own edification. I will say
> > though, that Faustus Tribunus used the CPT last year as often as
> > possible (I know we had one controversy with his comitia

> > because he did not want a disproportionately small number of

> > electing polsalve icy for the entirety of us. This in itself
> suggests to
> > me that even late last year we were Patrician heavy....have we

> > alot of Patricians in the past 2 months that the CPT can't be

> > in this election? As Tribune if he promulgated something which
> > would be binding on the entirety of the populace, pats and plebs,

> > wanted to afford both pats and plebs a say in the matter.
>
> Laenas: Yes, as I have said I am distrubed by the choice of

> I think Partician cives should have a say on this matter. I believe
> Tribune Faustus last year, only resorted to the Plebian Assembly

> the issues were solely issues of the Plebs.
>
> Vale,
>
> Laenas

>
> > I finalized my oath to Vesta to retain a state of virginity as

> > as resuming an even older similar oath to Diana that I held when

> > was a teenager.
> > I picked today most especially for this function.
> >
> > Anyway thanks for posting something else meaningful for this

> >
> > Lucia Modia Lupa

>
> Salve, excelent Consul, and Salve excelent senatora,
>
> Well... I am back from vacations. It was very nice. I want to the
> wonderful Diamantina XVIII century city. Very very very deligtful.
>
> I will support you and advance on the subject I studied a bit, during
> my tribunate.
>
> What we have on the Republic nowadays:
>
> I dont like the division our Constitution have about Comitia Plebis
> and Comitia Populi, and this must be reformed. On Ancient, the Plebs
> were 99% of the population, so the Comitia Plebis and Populi almost
> were the same, called Comitia Populi. This you can see on Smith and
> Livius.
>
> Surely, the body called ´Comitia Plebis´ we will have, but only for
> the election of the ´magistrates´, ie, plebeian sacrosainct bodies...
> ie, it could be Comitia Populi with all its rules less patricians.
>
> On all other subjects, the tribune must call the Comitia Populi,
> which must have all legislative power.
>
> Although the Comitia Centuriata have legislative power, it has fallen
> in disuse of laws, and the consules called only CPT. The ´political
> power´ were the same, since it just changed on cerimonies and
> division. The roman people remained the same. Alas, the CPT were more
> ´practical´ for summoning. Even the consules lost the uses to
> propose reforms, the tribunes been asked to do it. (That is why aslo
> the CPT must also propose constituional reforms.)
>
> Why ´taking out´ legislative powers of the Comitia Plebis?
> Because this is nor fair with half of our citizens. That is why I am
> hole-hearted in favour of long time approved and accepted Lex Salicia
> (although there is some people said last year it went against the
> Constitution, but problably it was the heat of incoming elections)
>
> The Comitia Populi/Plebis had overwhelming rule over all romani when
> the Plebis were almost all roman population.
>
> However, nowadays we have almost 50% of patricians. So we have the
> same ´demographic´ composition of early Republic. It is not fair so
> choosing a procedure of middle/later Republic.
>
> It is not fair (so Lex Salicia) passing a law for all without seeing
> opinion of all. That is why on doubt, I always choosed to pass my
> proposals under C. Populi. If a pratrician feel ´hurt´ by this or
> dont agree with the tribune choices, abstain on elections. I just
> dont think right taking out the patricians from the cista.
>
> Other point is that if you really seek the legislation, you will see
> the Comitia Populi and Comitia Plebis has MANY different rules. For
> exemple, the tribunitian election this year havent followed the
> Comitia Plebis rule, but the Comitia Populi. I tried with my last
> proposal to finally unify what there isnt reason to be different
> (Tribal assembly is tribal assembly, no matter who votes) but the law
> was repealed, a sadness, because it was a pretty good proposal.
> However, it seems the election followed the ´natural good sense´ the
> proposal pledged.
>
> Alas, nowadays, we have not much ´tension´ between patricians and
> plebeians, so the boundaries ´plebeian matter´ are very tenue and
> scarce. That is why we need a equality of the aedileships as well,
> but this is other subject.
>
> Valete bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus PR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <ksterne@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Staboni,
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I wonder, with respect to the promulgating Tribune, what manner
> of
> > > urgency, if any, prevails that you could not have been left to
> > > undertake this Consul as you said you would. And indeed, it
> seems
> > > to me that this is one of the shortest contios I've seen. What's
> > > the hurry?
> >
> > Laenas: I do not know. It appears Tribune Albucius had these ideas
> > working for some time.
> >
> > >
> > > I am confused about the presiding comitia, but I've taken that
> > > question to private mail, for my own edification. I will say
> > > though, that Faustus Tribunus used the CPT last year as often as
> > > possible (I know we had one controversy with his comitia
> choice) ,
> > > because he did not want a disproportionately small number of
> people
> > > electing polsalve icy for the entirety of us. This in itself
> > suggests to
> > > me that even late last year we were Patrician heavy....have we
> lost
> > > alot of Patricians in the past 2 months that the CPT can't be
> called
> > > in this election? As Tribune if he promulgated something which
> > > would be binding on the entirety of the populace, pats and plebs,
> he
> > > wanted to afford both pats and plebs a say in the matter.
> >
> > Laenas: Yes, as I have said I am distrubed by the choice of
> Comita.
> > I think Partician cives should have a say on this matter. I believe
> > Tribune Faustus last year, only resorted to the Plebian Assembly
> when
> > the issues were solely issues of the Plebs.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Laenas
>
>
>
>
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>

> Same old Faustus, I see.
>
> "I don't like this, and this must be reformed."
>
> My predictions made during the election are coming true, I fear.
>
> FVG

>
> OSD G. Equitius Cato
>
> Salve Flavius Germanicus et salvete omnes.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> <germanicus@g...> wrote:
> > Same old Faustus, I see.
> >
> > "I don't like this, and this must be reformed."
> >
> > My predictions made during the election are coming true, I fear.
> >
> > FVG
>
>
> CATO:
>
>
> "What then? Ought no innovation ever to be introduced; and because a
> thing has not yet been done - and in a new community there are many
> things which have not yet been done - ought they not to be done,

> when they are advantageous? In the reign of Romulus there were no
> pontiffs, no college of augurs; they were created by Numa Pompilius.
> There was no census in the State, no register of the centuries and
> classes; it was made by Servius Tullius. There were never any

> when the kings had been expelled they were created. Neither the

> nor the name of Dictator was in existence; it originated with the
> senate. There were no tribunes of the plebs, no aediles, no

> it was decided that these offices should be created. Within the last
> ten years we appointed decemvirs to commit the laws to writing and
> then we abolished their office. Who doubts that in a City built for
> all time and without any limits to its growth new authorities have

> be established, new priesthoods, modifications in the rights and
> privileges of the houses as well as of individual citizens?" - Livy,
> History of Rome 4.4
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato

>
> Salve, Vedi Germanice,
>
> I dont know if your ´predictions´ will come true, you said many
> things silly that time. But my electoral promises will become true
> indeed,

>
> "Licurgus was the best legislator of all time, and gave the best

> a individual could give to a country. And its country grew. But

> many centuries even Lisander and Agesilaus felt the need to reform
> it. There wasnt reform. So, Cleomenes had by strenght changed all"
>
>
> Salve,
>
> What I meant (since the yahoo sent early the message) was that the
> needs of reforms of the spartan legislation of Licurgus, due to the
> victory of the spartans on the Peloponesian War, that Lisander

> to entablish slowly, haven´t been done. Licurgus legislation was

> good for a small republic to rule Laconia and fight Arcadia, but

> plus ultra. So, unable to adapt itself to new times (Sparta was
> indeed ruling all greek world that time) Sparta lost all its
> possessions soon, just after one defear (Battle of Leuctra) and
> started its decadence, that mainly caused the overruling of king
> Clemones taking out all Licurgus laws forever (and causing a small
> rebirth of Sparta during the Cleomenic War).
>
> Very different than Rome. As Rome growns, new laws and reforms
> allowed Rome to rule more and more. And even after the worst

> (Caudinas Valley, Heracleia, Drepana, Utica under Regilus,

> Lake, Cannae) Rome has gained momentum and survived.
>
> This what I meant. We are Nova Roma, not Nova Sparta. The lesson

> the spartans is: Licurgus is pretty good on its times. If we dont
> allow Lisander to adapt it under its laws, we will perish

> under Cleomenes and the changes will not be subtle when the time
> presses us. Or we have the wiseness to adapt our laws, or the own
> times can make we lose all.
>
> And since we are Rome, not Sparta, we have better than Lisander, we
> have the wisdow of the Senate and People to lead us.
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus PR
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
> <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve, Vedi Germanice,
> >
> > I dont know if your ´predictions´ will come true, you said many
> > things silly that time. But my electoral promises will become

> > indeed,

> > Well, gee whiz. You changed your name again.

> And I imagine lots people here are scared that Yahoo might

> violations . Petty tyrants usually fear real authority.
> Haven't seen any TOS violations in a long time, so I think we are

> And your are correct. Senator L. Sicinius Drusus is a great man.
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>