T. Octavius Salvius G. Equitio Catoni SPD

Salve,

> This is, in effect, co-optation to the tribunate. This is a

violation

> of Nova Roman law.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato

Another point about this is that anyone could have been co-opted to
the tribunate.

When you resign your office you become a regular citizen without
extra power or responsibility. You have no more right to return to
your former office than someone who had never held that office.

vale

T. Octavius Salvius

Salve

I think I gave them out earlier in december, but since a couple of people
recently asked me for my IM contacts, and given I think a Tribunus must be
reachable in the closest form to talking that is allowed on the net, here are
my IM contacts:

YM: omegaalfa, domitius_constantinus_fuscus and guido_costantini (when I
connect, it connects randomly to one of those, so you might want to subscribe
all of them if you want to see me on every time I actually am)

MSN: moradan@...

AOL Messenger: romanflyke

ICQ: 731597

Anyone (but the couple of people I told to never contact me anymore), feel free
to contact me if you need/want to talk with this tribunus and I'll try my best
to make time.

Valete


Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis

Salve
well i get my latin copys from
Egmont Ehapa Verlag GmbH, Berlin, Germany
Vale
Marcus Cornelus Felix


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:

> Salve Manius Constantinus Serapio
>
> Thanks
>
> Do you know if we can obtain some Latin comics of Asterix and Obelix

for sale?

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Manius Constantinus Serapio<mailto:mcserapio@y...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:07 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Nova Roma Press
>
>
>
> AVE TI GALERI PAVLINE
>
> That's a great idea! :-)
> I fully support it!
>
> I remember Pinocchio (Pinoculus) has been translated into Latin as
> well. One can still find it sometimes on Ebay.
>
> BTW, if our intent is to increase the study of Latin, maybe it might
> be a good thing to make (only or also) easy translations for
> beginners (more or less like the Penguin small books for those who
> study English).
> I also remember the comics of Asterix and Obelix were translated
> into Latin. They were a nice thing for beginners :-)
>
> Congratulation Pauline. I'd give my full contribution to this
> project.
>
> OPTIME VALE
> M'C.Serapio
>
>
>
>
>
>

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>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ladies and Gentlemen;

Just a brief note to notify anyone who might be interested that an
unknown "gremlin" has been at work, and I no longer have internet
access at my home. I am writing this message from the library where
I have established a temporary mailbox:

jmath669642reng@...

until I can straighten the mess out at home. Anyone who has tried to
contact me in the last few days I cannot access my Webtv mailbox om
the library -- I'm not sure why -- but apparently that is part of
the "fun!!!"

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

A. Apollonius Cordus Pompejae Minuciae Straboni
omnibusque sal.

> I was under the impression, by your many posts
> tonight that you were
> not accepting of the veto...the 72 hours was up this
> afternoon and
> it is well into the evening my time and even more
> into the evening
> your time. I know you do not agree with it, of
> course, but you seem
> to remain somewhat pursuant.

I accept it, because that's the only thing one can do
with a veto. I have continued discussing the issue,
it's true, but that's because it's never too late to
persuade a person that he's wrong.

> The only disturbing element for me is that I wish
> you had of been as
> vocal about the legal elements of all this back when
> the Lex
> Cornelia Maria was being amended...that was the time
> to speak up on
> the language, given that you were legal assensus to
> the Consul, and
> had a bounty of opportunity to be a change agent.
> And, frankly,
> even prior to this time your approach to the matter
> appeared rather
> tepid.

You're mistaken. I wasn't employed by any magistrate
last year.

Also, you seem to think that I have some problem with
the language of the lex Cornelia Maria. I have no
problem with it, and I see no need to amend it. It is
perfectly clear, and it has nothing to do with
resignation from office.

> Why the accuity of expressed concern on your part
> now is my only
> lingering question, and being that I expressed this
> concern
> yesterday and today and had not received a
> clarification or
> response, I figured you just didn't want to talk
> about it.

Yes, you didn't actually ask me, though, did you? You
just insinuated that I had some nefarious purpose. I
didn't realize that this was your way of asking me
what my purpose really was.

If that's what you want to know, the answer depends on
whether you're talking about my "acuity of expressed
concern" about the legal situation or what ought to be
done about it. These are, I'm sure you'll agree, two
different issues.

The reason I'm continuing to explain why there is
nothing illegal about my suggested solution is that I
rather hope (perhaps naively) that if I can persuade
the tribuni that it is not illegal, they will allow us
to try it.

The reason I'm continuing to explain why Saturninus is
not a tribune is that people are saying he is.

> In the meantime, it shall remain as unanswered as
> you wish it to be.
> I shall not push the issue. And I shall continue to
> live under the
> delusion that Saturninus is still a tribune with
> full potestas.

Well, if proving your arguments incorrect isn't enough
to stop you believing it, I shall stop trying!





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Consular Edict Tax Rates for 2758 a.u.c.



Pursuant to the Senatus Consultum passed in November of 2755 a.u.c.,

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2002-11-09-results.html

I, Gaius Popillius Laenas, hereby establish the tax rates for 2758.

I. Tax rates for 2758 are set according to the values in the
following table. Tax rates are shown for each Province. In the case
of Provinces that contain multiple macronational countries that do
not
share a currency (i.e. the euro), rates for macronational countries
are shown.


Rate in US Local Rate in Local
Provincae Dollars Currency Currency
Britannia $9.00 British Pound GBP 5.00
Gallia $10.00 Euro EUR 7.00
Germania $10.00 Euro EUR 8.00
Hibernia $10.00 Euro EUR 8.00
Hispania $7.00 Euro EUR 5.00
Italia $9.00 Euro EUR 7.00
Pannonia
Hungary $5.00 Forint HUF 879.00
Slovakia $4.00 Slovak Koruna SKK 132.00
Sarmatia $3.00 Russian Ruble RUR 83.00
Thule $10.00 Euro EUR 8.00
Venedia $4.00 Zloty PLN 12.00
America Austroccidentalis $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
America Austrorientalis $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
America Boreoccidentalis $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
America Medioccidentalis $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
California $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
Canada Occidentalis $10.00 Canadian Dollar CAD 12.00
Canada Orientalis $10.00 Canadian Dollar CAD 12.00
Lacus Magni $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
Mediatlantica $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
Mexico $3.00 Mexican Peso MXN 34.00
Nova Britannia $13.00 US Dollar USD 13.00
Argentina $4.00 Argentine Peso ARS 11.00
Brasilia $3.00 Real BRL 7.00
Australia $10.00 Austrailan Dollar AUD 13.00
Nigeria $0.30 Naira NGN 39.00
South Africa $4.00 Rand ZAR 21.00


Citizens in the macronational area of Northern Ireland who use the
British Pound may pay the rate listed for Britannia in pounds, or
the rate for Hibernia in euros.

Apparent discrepancies between USD amounts and Euro amounts are due
to rounding. The tax rates for each Province and macronational
country were calculated consistently.

A cive who must pay in a currency not listed above may contact the
Consul who may then calculate the appropriate rate.

II. The deadline for remittance of taxes is the last day of April.
Taxes may be remitted after that date, with a penalty of an extra
50%.
For example, a citizen who owes $13 USD would need to pay $19.50 USD
after the deadline.


III. Each provincial governor is required to copy this edict to his
or
her provincial lists (where applicable). Each of Nova Roma's official
Interpreters is required to translate this edict into the language(s)
for which they are responsible. The appendix to this edictum contains
advice to citizens and should be forwarded/translated with the main
document.


This edictum is effective immediately.

Given under my hand, this ___8th___ day of February, 2758 ab urbe
condita in the consulship of Fr. Apulus Caesar and G. Popillius
Laenas.


APPENDIX - Advice to Citizens

Taxes can be paid in a variety of ways.

Citizens remitting their taxes in US dollars may send a check, money
order, or equivalent form of payment made out to Nova Roma directly
to:

Nova Roma
PO Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090

Other citizens will need to purchase an international money order in
US dollars for the full amount of their taxes and send it to the
address above. Note that is impractical to cash individual checks in
local currencies and/or drawn on non-US banks. Such items should no
be sent to the address above.

Some provincial governors have chosen to arrange a central point in
their Provinces to which citizens may remit their taxes so that the
Province will only need to make a single payment to the central
treasury. Citizens are encouraged to contact their provincial
governor, if any, to find out whether their Province will be doing
this.

Provincial governors who follow this practice may choose to retain
one-half of the taxes collected in their Province for local use
according to the local budgets they have prepared. This will have
the advantage of avoiding fees to have funds for local expenditures
transmitted back to the Province.

All citizens capable of doing so may pay their taxes through the
PayPal service. There is a link on the Nova Roma Web site's main page
for this. It is the purple image alternately displaying "DONO DARE"
and "give to Nova Roma via PayPal" located beneath the main menu.

All citizens must be sure to include the full Roman names of all
citizens for whom they are paying with their remittance!

PayPal provides a comments field when you use it, and you can provide
the name(s) there. This will ensure that each civis who pays taxes
will be properly enrolled in the Assidui.

Questions may be addressed to the Consul at

gaiuspopilliuslaenas@y....

A. Apollonius Cordus L. Modio Kaelo omnibusque sal.

> Thank you for the correction. And I knew that too
> (or did, once upon
> a time), though the differentiation between the two
> I'm not fully
> aware of (except that in this case the Plebians
> obviously would endow
> him with tribunicia potestas; but I mean potestas in
> general and
> imperium).

Imperium and potestas are both 'packages' or more
specific legal powers. Imperium contains all the
powers which potestas contains, plus some more - it's
the deluxe package, if you like.

> But what I meant on the point you responded to
> earlier in your reply
> was they simply can't confirm him as a tribune (as
> he is not
> tribune).
>
> Rather, wouldn't the assembly have to endow him with
> his potestas by
> voting him in again (or alternately, voting on the
> law to install him
> a legitimate and verified tribune)?

The comitia can give him the tribunicia potestas by
passing a plebiscitum giving him tribunicia potestas.
This is essentially what an election is, it's just a
question of whether the tribuni plebis accept any
other candidates or not.

> Would it not be easier [in the court of public
> opinion] to have
> another election, whether he ran opposed or not? The
> Plebians will
> decide either way, but if election is an option, I
> would think it
> should be the favoured one. At least that would put
> the issue to
> bed.. completely.

It might be better in some ways, but in practical
terms it would not be easier. I'll try to explain why.

The majority of the tribuni plebis are of the opinion
that Saturninus is a tribune. Therefore, they do not
accept the existence of a vacancy. Since they do no
accept the existence of a vacancy, they can't be
expected to permit an election to be held, because an
election requires a vacancy.

The compromise solution I suggested was that a
plebiscitum be passed making Saturninus tribune. This
ought to be acceptable both to those who believe that
he already is a tribune (since it can be done even if
there is no vacancy - it will just be a legal
restatement of the current position) and to those who
believe that he is not tribune (since it will make him
tribune, thus filling the vacancy).

To my mind this ought to have been a near-perfect
compromise, since it would allow us to completely
bypass the question of Saturninus' current legal
status and go directly to making sure that, one way or
another, there is a full college of tribunes, without
anyone having to admit to making a mistake.

Regrettably, the compromise idea has itself proved to
be ineffective, since for some incomprehensible reason
two of the tribunes have decided that they will not
allow it. I can only assume that they aren't
interested in solving the problem at all.





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A. Apollonius Cordus T. Octavio Pio omnibusque sal.

I'll quote your message more or less in full, because
your argument is quite detailed. My comments are at
the end.

> > In these cases, a vacancy occurs, even though
> there is no
> > léx which says that a vacancy can occur in this
> way. The
> > existence of the vacancy is not established by an
> explicit
> > statement of léx, but merely by common sense.
> >
> > So although the law does say that a person
> resigns from
> > office by resigning his citizenship, that doesn't
> > necessarily mean that this is the only way to
> resign from
> > office. This is confirmed by the fact that people
> have in
> > the past successfully resigned their offices
> without
> > resigning their citizenship.
>
> And here dies your argument. If you are willing to
> use common sense and
> past cases in interpreting the laws regarding
> resignation of offices,
> you should be willing to do the same when
> interpreting the Lex Cornelia
> et Maria. Let's spell it out explicitly, just for
> fun. Four alternatives:
>
> 1. We use common sense and past instances in both
> options. The current
> interpretation of the tribunes prevail, and
> Saturninus remains unchallenged.
>
> 2. We use common sense and past instances only
> regarding Lex Cornelia et
> Maria. Saturninus could not have resigned from his
> offices by other
> means than staying away for the full nine days.
> Saturninus remains
> unchallenged.
>
> 3. We use common sense and past instances only
> regarding resignation of
> offices. Saturninus resigned his offices but can't
> be reinstated as the
> law isn't fully clear on it. A new election is held.
>
> 4. We use common sense and past instances for
> interpreting neither
> situation. Saturninus could not have resigned his
> offices by other means
> than staying away for the full nine days. Saturninus
> remains unchallenged.
>
> Note that only the third instance goes against
> Saturninus' remaining
> tribune, and that option means that we use a curious
> set of double
> standards in order to get there, as would option
> two. The only two truly
> viable options are one and four, both of which keep
> Saturninus precisely
> WHERE THE OTHER TRIBUNES HAVE ALREADY CONFIRMED HIM.

You seem to think that I'm employing method number 3,
but in fact my method is number 1. Let me explain how
it goes.

We use common sense and past instances in both
options. So when we come to interpret the lex Cornelia
Maria, we use common sense and past instances as
follows:

Common sense: the lex Cornelia Maria says nothing
about any grace period for the resignation of a
magistracy, so there is no grace period for
resignation of a magistracy.

Past instances: the lex Cornelia Maria has never been
used as legal justification for allowing a resigned
magistrate to resume his office (see my detailed
explanation of the cases of Scaurus and Laenas), but
has in one past instance been interpreted as
preventing a resigned magistrate from resuming his
office (see my detailed explanation of the case of
Pompejus).

> I must admit I'm a bit confused why you would sink
> your own arguments by
> invoking common sense and past instances when
> defending your point of
> view, as you clearly oppose both and utilise a
> strictly legalistic
> approach when presenting it. Ah well.

I can understand why you're confused - it's because
you think that common sense and past instances are
incompatible with my interpretation of the law, and so
you're surprised that I advocate using them. But, as
I've explained, common sense and past instances
actually support my interpretation, so it's only
natural that I should use them!





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Salve Romans

I, Timothy Paul Gallagher, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Timothy Paul Gallagher, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Timothy Paul Gallagher, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Timothy Paul Gallagher, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Timothy Paul Gallagher, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Quaestor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Quaestor and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Given on this eighth day of February in the Consulship of Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas, 2758 A U C





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

I, Richard Arthur Malley, Quintus Cassius Calvus, do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the
best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Richard Arthur Malley, Quintus
Cassius Calvus, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my
public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and
private life.

I, Richard Arthur Malley, Quintus Cassius Calvus, swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.

I, Richard Arthur Malley, Quintus Cassius Calvus, swear to protect
and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Richard Arthur Malley, Quintus Cassius Calvus, further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of
Magister Aranearius to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Magister Aranearius and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Given on this eighth day of February in the Consulship of Franciscus
Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas, 2758 A U C

Vale,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Salve Romans

My sincere congratulations to Quintus Cassius Calvus on his election as Magister Aranearius and to Senator Marcus Tiberius Minucius Audens on his election as
EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM

Nova Roma could not have done better and is fortunate these citizens are willing to serve her as magistrates.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

please note that this blog can now be accessed by XML.
All profits made will be given to the Magna Mater project.

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio



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Salvete Quirites,

The macronational country of Romania is not currently part of a
Provincer and its tax rate was not published in the recent edict.

For our cives living there the 2758 a.u.c. tax rate is:

$2.00 USD
68.00 Leu (ROL)

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas
Consul

Salve Apollonius Scipio !

A great work. Congratulations !

VALE,
IVL SABINVS

Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@...> wrote:
Salvete,

please note that this blog can now be accessed by XML.
All profits made will be given to the Magna Mater project.

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio



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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE CONSULE !

Thank you for your promptness. I already republish your post in NRDacia - group.

VALE,
IVL SABINVS
DACIA PROVINCE

gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopilliuslaenas@...> wrote:

Salvete Quirites,

The macronational country of Romania is not currently part of a
Provincer and its tax rate was not published in the recent edict.

For our cives living there the 2758 a.u.c. tax rate is:

$2.00 USD
68.00 Leu (ROL)

Valete,

G. Popillius Laenas
Consul




Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Quirites;
I was just over at the Nova Roma Italia list and there was a great
post by Consul Caesar, from the Italian magazine "Living Archeology,"
on the results of DNA testing. The modern day Tuscans are not even
close relatives of the Etruscans. Researchers from the Universities
of Bologna and Florence did the tests. So what happened to the
Etruscans, where did they go? Fascinating..
optime valete
M.Hortensia Maior TRP

Salvete Quirites,

Lunacy strikes again! I wouldn't recommend this as serious reading, but
the web blurb does make for great humor.

http://tinyurl.com/6jouu

If conspiracy theories are the sophistication of the ignorant, this guy
would seem to be pretty sophisticated!

Valete,

-- Marinus

Salve,

Thank you and congratulations to you as well.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:

> Salve Romans
>
> My sincere congratulations to Quintus Cassius Calvus on his

election as Magister Aranearius and to Senator Marcus Tiberius
Minucius Audens on his election as

> EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM
>
> Nova Roma could not have done better and is fortunate these

citizens are willing to serve her as magistrates.

>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

My thanks to all who came out to vote and those that have extended
their congratulations on the outcome of the elections. I'll do my
best to maintain the website and address ongoing problems there in.
I can't promise and won't promise overnight miracles as with the new
family legislation the current database structure is obsolete. The
Censor's office has been keeping manual records of the recent
emancipations and formation of families and domiciles within the
current gens as well as addressing some other concerns with the
database.

Devising a new database structure will take some time and I ask for
some patience. I've put out some feelers towards people with talent
in this area hopefully someone will take the bait. <G> It is much
easier to take extra time to do something right than it is to take
extra time to fix it after the fact. Some would say I'm
interminably slow, I prefer to think of it as being methodical.

On a brighter note the translation of the citizen application forms
into Italian is just about complete. The forms are functional in
Italian now but there are a handful of error messages that need to
be translated and put into place. My thanks to Manius Constantinus
Serapio for all his hard work in the translation effort. The next
stop in the translation process will be translating the citizenship
application forms into Spanish.

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Salvete,

On the 14 of january, I made a donation of 10 euros to the Magna Mater project through
paypal to payments@.... To this date, the payment remains unclaimed. For paypal,
it could be that the email adress is not validated. Could you check?

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio




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SALVE M HORTENSIA MAIOR

(I do live in Pisa, where Arno river passes through; it happens to
be the ancient, historical northern border of Etruria, where used to
live Etruscans)

About this almost fabulous people, the vast majority of historians
agree with the fact that we have totally lost their roots, and that
many of their characteristics are not clear to us. I obviously
cannot answer to your questions (many books have been written about
this topic, I can forward you some of their titles), but I indeed
think that one of reasons is that in Tuscany beginning from Romans
passed so many different cultures, conquerors and populations, so
that these roots got lost. This is indeed a characteristic of the
all ancient and medieval history of Italy, but I don't know why in
other places of my nation this did not happen, and we can still see
some traits of the ancient local population.

BENE VALE
L IUL SULLA

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> Avete Quirites;
> I was just over at the Nova Roma Italia list and there was a
great
> post by Consul Caesar, from the Italian magazine "Living
Archeology,"
> on the results of DNA testing. The modern day Tuscans are not even
> close relatives of the Etruscans. Researchers from the
Universities
> of Bologna and Florence did the tests. So what happened to the
> Etruscans, where did they go? Fascinating..
> optime valete
> M.Hortensia Maior TRP

Salvete Omnes,

As Aedilician Quaestor, I confirm I am not informed of any donation
to the MM Project since January 1, 2005.

Valete !

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Provinciae Galliae Propraetor
Aedilician Quaestor


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Sextus Apollonius Scipio
<scipio_apollonius@y...> wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> On the 14 of january, I made a donation of 10 euros to the Magna

Mater project through

> paypal to payments@n... To this date, the payment remains

unclaimed. For paypal,

> it could be that the email adress is not validated. Could you check?
>
> Valete,
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Ave, Kaelus! Avete, omnes!
I would thank all the cives who helped me in this research.
Well, almost all of my friends are Christians and last saturday 3 of 'em
asked me to pray for food; I said only these three simple words "Bless this
food", with no referral to any god.
Now I can pray the right god.


Valete Optime,

Qvintvs Fabivs Allectvs (aka Alecto)
Pater Familias Fabiae Alectae
Civis NovaRomanus Italicus - http://italia.novaroma.org
Tirone Legio I Italica - Villadose (RO) - http://www.legio-i-italica.it
Cogito, ergo sum - http://jacktheripper1984.splinder.com



-------Messaggio originale-------

Da: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: 02/07/05 22:57:18
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman food gods/goddesses


Salve;

The answer more depends on what you're specifically asking.
But you can pray to any god, for any reason. You can also dedicate a
meal or give thanks to any god/dess you please, or who you think
helped give you such bounty. If it is cooked and/or eaten in the
home, you should probably thank Vesta and the household deities
(lares, penates, even mares).

But there is really no restriction, or "right" way, or "correct"
divinity to pray to. This is an informal sort of prayer, and not a
ritual. There are rituals based in a particular cultus or within
some familial traditions, but you're not explicitly bound to
anything.

Also, you can offer up the food beforehand, and then profane it
before eating it, probably giving some as a burnt-offering before it
is profaned. Or just pour a libation to any or all of the gods
(though it might be preferable to single out Iupiter as the foremost
god to give thanks to, as he is the 'king' of the Dii Immortales).

If you want something more specific based on some particular
practise or context, just ask.

Vale,
Kaelus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Jack the Ripper" <peaceboy@l...>
wrote:

> Avete, omnes!
> Is there any greek and/or roman god and/or goddess to pray for the

food we

> are going to eating?
>
>
> Valete Optime,
>
> Qvintvs Fabivs Allectvs (aka Alecto)
> Pater Familias Fabiae Alectae
> Civis NovaRomanus Italicus - http://italia.novaroma.org
> Tirone Legio I Italica - Villadose (RO) - http://www.legio-i-

italica.it

> Cogito, ergo sum - http://jacktheripper1984.splinder.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lucius Apollonius Clemens Omnibus S.P.D.

Salvete Omnes !

I come to you to recommend the reading of the book 'A.D.62 : Pompeii',
written by Rebecca East.

Written as a novel, the book presents the adventure of a 21st century
woman who travels to the past and arrives in Pompeii a few years before
its destruction. The story about the time-travelling machine is kept very
brief and not much detail is given about it. The book focuses on the
feelings and experience of its main character as she arrives in a Roman
world and sees the world through her 21st century way of thinking.

The novel is very easy to read and I could easily identify myself with the
character (although she is a woman, her 21st century origins make her look
very close to us, and I soon focused on what she saw around her, as if I
was there myself), appreciating then evering single detail, every single
encounter and roman talk that she conducted for me.

This was a fantastic experience. Max Gallo had taken me very close to
Julius Caesar in his book 'Caesar Imperator', but this was definitely a
journey to meet the common people and it revealed a lot of details about
the everyday life in Pompeii and how different it is depending on whose
life is observed (slave, freedmam, a daughter, a son, a matron, a
peterfamilias..).

Rebecca East changed a part of my understanding of history into a
collection of memories and I can't wait for her to release another book :)

For your pleasure, I strongly recommend the reading of this book. You can
find details about it here :

http://www.rebecca-east.com/index.html

And you can buy it on Amazon here :

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/059526882X/qid%3D1046655678/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-8634462-4112055

Well, I'm back to the cold historical analysis of Pierre Grimal now (which
is nonetheless enjoyable as well, don't take me wrong !) :)

Valete,

Lucius Apollonius Clemens.

Salve Luci Apolloni, et salvete Quirites,

Lucius Apollonius Clement wrote:

> I come to you to recommend the reading of the book 'A.D.62 : Pompeii',
> written by Rebecca East.

Yes, it is a lovely little book, isn't it?

I've taken the liberty of forwarding your post to the author. I'm sure
she will appreciate it.

Vale,

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

>
> Avete Quirites;
> I was just over at the Nova Roma Italia list and there was a great
> post by Consul Caesar, from the Italian magazine "Living

Archeology,"

> on the results of DNA testing. The modern day Tuscans are not even
> close relatives of the Etruscans. Researchers from the Universities
> of Bologna and Florence did the tests. So what happened to the
> Etruscans, where did they go? Fascinating..
> optime valete
> M.Hortensia Maior TRP

KAELUS: I'm not entirely sure, but I've read lots of conjecture in my
recent research regarding the various manifestations of Fulfuns
within Roman cultural art and religion... and most of those theories
are pretty vague and based on scant archeological evidence.

The Etruscans persisted as haruspecies employed during the Republican
period for quite some time until the Romans established their own
college of Etruscan divination. So obviously there were a decent
amount who survived the fall of Etruria and were eventually absorbed
into Roman society as a whole.

But from most of the opinions that I've heard, the Etruscans were
decimated around 400 BCE by Gaulish Celts, probably more so than is
represented in historical accounts. After the Po valley was
conquered, most probably started to migrate elsewhere for fear of
their safety. It's assumed that they scattered throughout Italy and
abroad (north and eastbound, most likely), away from their
traditional homeland as the Romans and their Latin allies settled the
areas in which they formerly lived while conquering those who
remained (and probably selling most of the survivors into slavery).

I don't think anyone really knows, but the theory presented above is
a fairly good guess.

Vale,
Kaelus

It was bcc'd to her already :)

Lucius

> Salve Luci Apolloni, et salvete Quirites,
>
> Lucius Apollonius Clement wrote:
>
> > I come to you to recommend the reading of the book 'A.D.62 : Pompeii',
> > written by Rebecca East.
>
> Yes, it is a lovely little book, isn't it?
>
> I've taken the liberty of forwarding your post to the author. I'm sure
> she will appreciate it.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
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> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

I just got my copy of "Pompeii: The Last Day" on DVD, and was somewhat
disheartened by the fact that they didn't all escape. I can't help
but feel that if they'd spent their time watching the Discovery
Channel instead of, say, "SURVIVOR: Cisalpine Gaul", they'd have
understood what was going on and gotten away...


Valete bene,

Cato

Salve,
I have to agree with you. Accept, I believe those Gladiators watched a little too much Fear Factor. When the one went walking out while rocks were falling from the sky....Fear was definitely not a factor for him.
Vale,
Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana

----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 9:41 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A.D.62 : Pompeii - Strongly recommended



OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

I just got my copy of "Pompeii: The Last Day" on DVD, and was somewhat
disheartened by the fact that they didn't all escape. I can't help
but feel that if they'd spent their time watching the Discovery
Channel instead of, say, "SURVIVOR: Cisalpine Gaul", they'd have
understood what was going on and gotten away...


Valete bene,

Cato






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you to announce the January Issue of "Aquila." My apologies for the lateness of this issue, but a combination of events have worked against us. I must give proper due to the Honored Senior Consul and his excellent staff for thier efforts in publishing this newsletter. They have created a new website for "Aquila", and have come up with some new ideas for the newsletter as well.

I than them most effusively for thier work in this area. We have n the "Aquila" staff a new Religious Editor, ProConsul and Pontiff Astur, who has stepped forward to fill the vacancy left by the resignation of his predesessor. My thanks for Senator Astur's willingness to fill this difficult position.

The website for the 2005 "Aquila" is

www.novaroma.org/aquila?

Please enjoy this newsletter, and I will be pleased to recieve all comments regarding "Aquila."

Very Respectfully;
Your Literary Servant;

Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens -- Editor Commentarium -- "Aquila" -- Nova Roma

--Salvete omnes;
I'm forwarding this from the Hellenic-Pagan list. I really enjoyed
seeing these statues painted as they would be. The Danish link works
fine, so
enjoy and watch out for those colours!
optime valete
M. Hortensia Maior


- In HellenicPagan@yahoogroups.com, "amyntoros" <York51@a...> wrote:


I might be taking this subject a little too far off-topic, but it
could be relevant if anyone was considering painting their own
statues of the gods. :-)

I've always been interested in the fact that the ancient Greeks and
Romans painted all their statues, probably because I studied art at
college, lo these many years ago.  I found out about an exhibition -
I believe at the Vatican museum - where statues in their possession
were copied and then painted with the original colours according to
remanants of paint found upon them.  There is an Athena amongst these
(obviously not the Parthenon Athena), and though she is only
partially painted, the colours are quite startling.  To say that the
colours on all these statues are garish is an understatement!

The last site below includes a link to a Guardian article which gives
details in English about the reconstructions.  However, the Guardian
link often locks up my computer and I have to reboot.  This happens
to me regularly with any news from the Guardian, although I don't
know of anyone else who has the same problem.  Still, I thought I
should warn you.

http://www.rivistadiequipeco.it/Eventi/Vat_coloridelbianco/museivatica
ni_2.htm

http://www.nyborg-gym.dk/uv/oldtidskundskab/classicolor/index.html

http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2004/11/025-0001-8548.html
--- End forwarded message ---

Salvete,

I got an offer from a rather good antiquity online store consisting of a 5% donation of
any sale done through a referral link. This store do not have a referral program nor the
technical knowledge to provide any solution. I think I should give it a try and I would
like to know if any of you could give advices in order to implement such a link. Profits,
if any, will be of course given to NR.
Thanks in advance.

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio



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Caius Minucius Scaevola Sextus Apollonius Scipio S.D.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 02:09:06PM -0800, Sextus Apollonius Scipio wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I got an offer from a rather good antiquity online store consisting of a 5% donation of
> any sale done through a referral link. This store do not have a referral program nor the
> technical knowledge to provide any solution. I think I should give it a try and I would
> like to know if any of you could give advices in order to implement such a link. Profits,
> if any, will be of course given to NR.
> Thanks in advance.

Shifted to private email.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Alea iacta est!
Let the dice fly!
-- Julius Caesar, at the Rubicon

Ex Officio L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus salutem dicit

Avete,

On behalf of the College Pontificum:


I. Decretum de Feria Fornacalia

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO QUIRITIBVS. The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to set the dates of the Feria Fornicalia, the decision was that: the rites of the Feria Fornicalia in the year MMDCCLVIII AUC shall be observed in the period a.d. III Id. Feb. (Feb. 11) through a.d. XIV Kal. Mar. (Feb. 16).


II. Decretum on Removal of Pontifices.

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO QUIRITIBVS. The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to comply with the Decretum on Collegium Pontificum Minimum Requirements, the decision was that:

Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar and Marcus Arcadius Pius are stricken from the
Collegium Pontificum in accordance with the Decretum on Collegium Pontificum Minimum requirements.

ante diem IV Idus Februarias MMDCCLVIII auc (10 Feb 2005)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Decreta were passed unanimously (8 Vti Rogas), excepting those Pontifices who have not been heard from in years.
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2002-04-18.html
Not voting:
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
Marcus Arcadius Pius

Valete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

Did M.Arcadius Pius lost his position of Flamen
Portunalis as well?

Valete
M.Arminius

--- Lucius Equitius <vergil96@...> escreveu:

>
> Ex Officio L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus
> salutem dicit
>
> Avete,
>
> On behalf of the College Pontificum:

[..]

> II. Decretum on Removal of Pontifices.

[..]

> Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar and Marcus Arcadius Pius
> are stricken from the
> Collegium Pontificum in accordance with the Decretum
> on Collegium Pontificum Minimum requirements.
> Valete

_______________________________________________________
Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Instale o discador do Yahoo! agora. http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/ - Internet rápida e grátis

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is ante diem III Idus Februarius; the day is Nefastus.

"Rident stolidi verba Latina." (Fools laugh at the Latin language) -
Ovid

In accordance with the decretum from the College of Pontiffs, today is
the celebration of the Fornicalia*. It was celebrated at the
level of the curiae (at least originally akin to the modern sense of
ward or even neighborhood). Every curia had a leader (the curio - at
least 50 years old and elected for life) and a citizen charged with
ensuring the observence of curial religious feasts (called the flamen
- but not technically a priest). The thirty curiones collectively
comprised the college of curiones, the head of which was the curio
maximus (the "most important curio" - until the end of the 3rd century
B.C. always a patrician). Every curia had its own meeting house where
members met to celebrate curial feast days. These, even the glory days
of Rome, were always simple, homey places - no silver goblets, the
offerings were cakes of grain and perhaps some first fruits. Every
year the curio maximus announced the date of the Fornicalia and posted
a separate notice for each curia in the Forum, probably indicating
where each curia should gather for the final part of the celebration.
We think that every family in the curia brought far (spelt - a kind of
grain) to be toasted at the meeting hall and sacrificed to ensure that
the household ovens wouldn't be burnt in the coming year. Then the
curiae assembled for a collective feast.

On February 17th, if anyone had forgotten the feast or didn't remember
which curiae he belonged to, he could make a private sacrifice at the
Quirinalia, a general assembly of all the curiae. The Romans called
the Quirinalia the "Feast of Fools."

*Special thanks to M. Calidius Gracchus for hunting down the
information regarding the Fornicalia!

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete,

From citizens from its provinces, decendents, lovers and scholars of
the latins on the New World, there is a old NR list:

NRlatinamerica-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Propraetor Brasiliae

Salvete omnes,

Does anybody know anything about Academia Thules? I applied to them a few weeks ago and have not received a response. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.

Valete bene,
Gallus Cassius Augurius




__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What about the Romans themselves? Is there any
indication that Republican Roman genes/ blood / DNA is
present in folks?
--- 21aprile@... <21aprile@...> wrote:

>
> SALVE M HORTENSIA MAIOR
>
> (I do live in Pisa, where Arno river passes through;

it happens to

> be the ancient, historical northern border of

Etruria, where used to

> live Etruscans)
>
> About this almost fabulous people, the vast majority

of historians

> agree with the fact that we have totally lost their

roots, and that

> many of their characteristics are not clear to us. I

obviously

> cannot answer to your questions (many books have

been written about

> this topic, I can forward you some of their titles),

but I indeed

> think that one of reasons is that in Tuscany

beginning from Romans

> passed so many different cultures, conquerors and

populations, so

> that these roots got lost. This is indeed a

characteristic of the

> all ancient and medieval history of Italy, but I

don't know why in

> other places of my nation this did not happen, and

we can still see

> some traits of the ancient local population.
>
> BENE VALE
> L IUL SULLA
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior"

<rory12001@y...> wrote:

> >
> > Avete Quirites;
> > I was just over at the Nova Roma Italia list and

there was a

> great
> > post by Consul Caesar, from the Italian magazine

"Living

> Archeology,"
> > on the results of DNA testing. The modern day

Tuscans are not even

> > close relatives of the Etruscans. Researchers from

the

> Universities
> > of Bologna and Florence did the tests. So what

happened to the

> > Etruscans, where did they go? Fascinating..
> > optime valete
> > M.Hortensia Maior TRP
>
>
>

=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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CN·SALVIVS·ASTVR·GAL·CASSIO·S·P·D

S·V·B·E·E·V

> Does anybody know anything about Academia Thules? I applied to them a > few weeks ago and have not received a response. Any information would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Valete bene,
> Gallus Cassius Augurius

I am one of the officers of the Academia. Please contact me privately.

BENE·VALETE·TV·TVIQVE·OMNES

CN·SALVIVS·T·F·A·NEP·OVF·ASTVR·SCRIPSIT

L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur M Arminio Maiori salutem dicit

Salve

"Did M.Arcadius Pius lost his position of Flamen Portunalis as well?"

Good question. The answer is, not yet.

The college hasn't gotten to this yet.
PRIESTHOOD ASSIDUI STATUS REQUIREMENT
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2003-11-02-i.htm

We have been simply spending too much time and effort administering these
types of situations.
Each time this happens it's necessitating changes to records (century points
etc, website updates, new appointments or elections). Just like citizens and
magistrates who resign or simply walk away, we spend too much time and
effort on people who have *nothing invested* in the success of Nova Roma.
I've advocated a more stringent application policy since 1998. I know many
people don't like the idea of standards to attain citizenship, but really we
must adopt something. It's just totally unfair to place the burden on the
rest of us citizens. We've been dealing with this issue for too long.
I've always thought the webform was a bad idea. I continue to believe that
an actual *signed* form is best. Then a 'provisional' citizenship pending
payment of "taxes" and a nonrefundable 'processing fee'.
I really don't believe we would have too many fewer serious citizens than we
have now. Sure we wouldn't have over 2K files to maintain, but that wouldn't
be a bad thing. This is a real problem. People are going to have to take
these commitments more seriously.

Just venting. We'll go through the records after the tax collection and see
who needs to be removed and vote on it.

Valete

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:04:07 -0300 (ART)
From: M Arminius Maior <marminius@...>
Subject: Re: Decreta announcement

Salvete

Did M.Arcadius Pius lost his position of Flamen
Portunalis as well?

Valete
M.Arminius

--- Lucius Equitius <vergil96@...> escreveu:

>
> Ex Officio L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus
> salutem dicit
>
> Avete,
>
> On behalf of the College Pontificum:

[..]

> II. Decretum on Removal of Pontifices.

[..]

> Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar and Marcus Arcadius Pius
> are stricken from the
> Collegium Pontificum in accordance with the Decretum
> on Collegium Pontificum Minimum requirements.
> Valete

Salve Romans

FYI

A web site you may fine useful


http://www.members.aol.com/TeacherNet/AncientRome.html<http://www.membersaol.com/TeacherNet/AncientRome.html>

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberi Galeri, et salvete quirites,

Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:

> A web site you may fine useful
>
>
> http://www.members.aol.com/TeacherNet/AncientRome.html

Unfortunately a large number of the links seem to be out of date. I got
a lot of 404 "this page not found" errors. But thanks for the pointer.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salve Marce Flavi,

You asked:

> What about the Romans themselves? Is there any
> indication that Republican Roman genes/ blood / DNA is
> present in folks?

I recall that Diana Octavia has said something about having taken some
sort of DNA test that showed she has the (mitochondrial?) DNA of Romans
from Roma Antiqua. A quick search of the web reveals these three
interesting websites:

1. Genetic Haplogroups (a part of the Lindsay clan website touching on
Roman and other genetics in British people)

http://www.clanlindsay.com/genetic_haplogroups.htm

2. Best of Sicily - Genetics

http://www.bestofsicily.com/genetics.htm

3. Sicilian Peoples - the Romans

http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art159.htm

I'm sure there's much more out there if one has the time and inclination
to look for it.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salve

Ah, i understand.
I thought that, if the Flamen Portunalis is a member
of the Collegium Pontificum (NR Constitution, VI.B.1),
and the language of the last decreta says "and M.
Arcadius Pius are stricken from the Collegium
Pontificum", he loses simulteanously both positions.

--- Lucius Equitius <vergil96@...> escreveu:

>
> L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur M Arminio Maiori
> salutem dicit
> Salve
> "Did M.Arcadius Pius lost his position of Flamen
> Portunalis as well?"
> Good question. The answer is, not yet.

[..]

> Valete

Vale
M.Arminius





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A. Apollonius Cordus M. Arminio Majori omnibusque sal.

> I thought that, if the Flamen Portunalis is a member
> of the Collegium Pontificum (NR Constitution,
> VI.B.1),
> and the language of the last decreta says "and M.
> Arcadius Pius are stricken from the Collegium
> Pontificum", he loses simulteanously both positions.

In historical terms, the only flamines who were
members of the collegium pontificum were the three
flamines majores: the flamen Dialis, the flamen
Martialis, and the flamen Quirinalis.

It's true that the constitution says that all the
flamines are members of the collegium, but perhaps the
flamines minores would be better considered associate
members (since they can't vote) rather than full members.





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L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur Quiritibus salutem dicit

Salvete

Like so many things in Nova Roma we're in a period of development where it's
necessary to make adaptations. We get more applications for 'Pontifex' than
for all the other priesthood positions combined.
I came up with the idea that applicants should hold a flaminate for a number
of months, or maybe a year of two, prior to being eligible to be considered
for the College proper.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2003-11-02-ii.htm
...The Collegium Pontificum is the guiding body of the Nova Roma Priesthood
as well as the Religio Romana, and therefore it is important that Pontifices
should have direct Priesthood experience through practical service.
Pontifices raised before this date and do not hold a Priesthood are
encouraged but not required to apply for a secondary priesthood;...

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:25:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1817

A. Apollonius Cordus M. Arminio Majori omnibusque sal.

> I thought that, if the Flamen Portunalis is a member
> of the Collegium Pontificum (NR Constitution,
> VI.B.1),
> and the language of the last decreta says "and M.
> Arcadius Pius are stricken from the Collegium
> Pontificum", he loses simulteanously both positions.

In historical terms, the only flamines who were
members of the collegium pontificum were the three
flamines majores: the flamen Dialis, the flamen
Martialis, and the flamen Quirinalis.

L Equitius: Who, by the way, were also Senatores.
I am a Senator, but alas the Flamen Quirinalis is not. He has met other
requirments for inclusion in the Senate too, but is being persecuted on
account of personal vendettas and of his 'zealous' defense of the
religio.

It's true that the constitution says that all the
flamines are members of the collegium, but perhaps the
flamines minores would be better considered associate
members (since they can't vote) rather than full members.

L Equitius: Only Gaius Modius Athanasius is Flamen Minor who is also a
Pontifex.
I do agree with you in principle Cordus, and in fact the other Flamen
Minores are non voting members.
They are, or should be, subscribed to the
NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com and are always welcome to comment and
bring items to the college for discussion.

Valete

Salvete Quirites,

I'm wondering if anyone here has read this book.

Classical Living: Reconnecting With the Rituals for Ancient Rome
by Frances Bernstein

http://tinyurl.com/5xuph

The book was mentioned in one of the other Roman web communities I read,
and seems to be well regarded. Has anyone here in NR read it?

Valete,

-- Marinus

Salvete,
This is just a general announcement to let people know that the
previously private temple of Diana list is now open upon request of
membership. It is place for those who worship the goddess Diana to
share thoughts, research etc.
You can find us at :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templeofdianaproject

Valete bene
Lucia Modia Lupa

M.Hortensia Maior Censori Marino spd;
I haven't read it , but the author posted twice last year at the
Religio Group, check the archives Marine, I think she was interested
in the ruins to Isis at Cumae.
optime vale
Maior

>
> Classical Living: Reconnecting With the Rituals for Ancient Rome
> by Frances Bernstein
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5xuph
>
> The book was mentioned in one of the other Roman web communities I

read,

> and seems to be well regarded. Has anyone here in NR read it?
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here has read this book.
>
> Classical Living: Reconnecting With the Rituals for Ancient Rome
> by Frances Bernstein

I have not only read it, I own it. I believe what Bernstein attempts
to do with "Classical Living" is not so much recreate specific
rituals but illustrate ways of living in the rhythm and balance of a
live lived in harmony with the Roman calendar. It's a nice companion
piece to the more substantive works such as John Scheid's "An
Introduction to Roman Religion" and "Dictionary of Roman Religion" by
Lesley and Roy Adkins.

valete,

Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salve Julilla, et salvete quirites,

Julilla Sempronia Magna wrote:
[about]

>>Classical Living: Reconnecting With the Rituals for Ancient Rome
>>by Frances Bernstein
>
>
> I have not only read it, I own it. I believe what Bernstein attempts
> to do with "Classical Living" is not so much recreate specific
> rituals but illustrate ways of living in the rhythm and balance of a
> live lived in harmony with the Roman calendar. It's a nice companion
> piece to the more substantive works such as John Scheid's "An
> Introduction to Roman Religion" and "Dictionary of Roman Religion" by
> Lesley and Roy Adkins.

Thank you. I think I'll add it to my wishlist.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Hi,

This piece from The Times newspaper might be of interest to some.

Regards,
N.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Women Warriors From Amazon
Fought For Britains Roman Army
By Lewis Smith
The Times - UK
22.12.2004

The remains of two Amazon warriors serving with the Roman army in
Britain have been discovered in a cemetery that has astonished
archaeologists. Women soldiers were previously unknown in the Roman
army in Britain and the find at Brougham in Cumbria will force a
reappraisal of their role in 3rd-century society.

The women are thought to have come from the Danube region of Eastern
Europe, which was where the Ancient Greeks said the fearsome Amazon
warriors could be found.

The women, believed to have died some time between AD220 and 300,
were burnt on pyres upon which were placed their horses and military
equipment. The remains were uncovered in the 1960s but full-scale
analysis and identification has been possible only since 2000 with
technological advances.

The soldiers are believed to have been part of the numerii, a Roman
irregular unit, which would have been attached to a legion serving in
Britain. Other finds show that their unit originated from the
Danubian provinces of Noricum, Pannonia and Ilyria which now form
parts of Austria, Hungary and the former Yugoslavia.

Hilary Cool, the director of Barbican Research Associates, which
specialises in post- excavation archaeological analysis, said that
the remains were the most intriguing aspects of a site that is
changing our understanding of Roman burial rites.

"It seems highly probable that we have a unit raised in the Danubian
lands and transferred to Britain," she says in British Archaeology.

"Though the numerii are generally referred to as irregular units,
they are not thought of as having women among their ranks. However,
the unit came from the area where the Ancient Greeks placed the
origin of women warriors called Amazons. Could the numerii be even
more irregular than anyone has ever dreamt?"

The cemetery at Brougham served a fort and the civilian settlement of
Brocavum in the 3rd century and analysis of the remains of more than
180 people showed that everybody's ashes were buried there.
Archaeologists have been able to determine the ages and gender of the
dead and to build up a detailed picture of Roman funerals in
Brougham.

One of the sets of women warrior's remains were found with the burnt
remnants of animals. Bone veneer, used to decorate boxes, was also
found alongside evidence of a sword scabbard and red pottery. The
possessions suggest that she was of high status and her age has been
estimated at between 20 and 40 years old. The other woman, thought to
be between 21 and 45, was buried with a silver bowl, a sword
scabbard, bone veneer and ivory.

Copyright 2004 Times Newspapers Ltd.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1411715,00.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
The Mysteries of Mithras:
The Pagan Belief That Shaped the Christian World.
http://www.innertraditions.com/isbn/1-59477-027-1

Ex Officio Censoris Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Edictum Censoris CFQ XXX about complementary appointments of three
Scribae Censoris CFQ to Cohors Censoris CFQ and a transference of a
Scribae Censoris CFQ within Cohors Censoris CFQ and the honorable
release of a Scriba Censoris CFQ

After discussions with the leadership of Provincia Italia and
Provincia Hispania I have decided to appoint one Scriba Censoris CFQ
from Provincia Hispania and transfer one Scriba Censoris CFQ from for
Provincia Italia. This appointment and transference can be seen as a
test of a higher language specialization within the Cohors. Futher a
Scriba Censoris CFQ will be appointed to manage welcome packets to
new citizens where there Governor prefer such support. Further one
Scriba Censoris within the Officina Approbatio will be honorably
released from her duties and another Scribae Censoris CFQ appointed
in her place.

I. I hereby appoint Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia as a Scriba Censoris
CFQ in the "Officina Ductus" (The Leading Office) to manage welcome
packets to new citizens in Provinciae where there Governor prefer
such support.

II. I. I hereby appoint Fausta Martiana Gangalia Minervalis as a
Scriba Censoris CFQ in "Officina Approbatio" (Office of Approvals) to
do general approval work.

III. I will hereby appoint Marcus Adrianus Complutensis as a Scriba
Censoris CFQ in Officina Approbatio (Office of Approvals), to be
specialized in handling Spanish applicants.

IV. Scriba Censoris CFQ Manius Constantinus Serapio will be
transfered from the "Officina Ductus" (The Leading Office) to
"Officina Approbatio" (Office of Approvals), to be specialized in
handling Italian applicants. He is still expected to continue his
work as a Latin advisor in the Cohors Censoris CFQ.

V. Due to personal reasons Gaia Flavia Aureliana has been forced to
ask to be released from her duties as Scriba Censoris CFQ in
Officina Approbatio (Office of Approvals). Which she hereby is
granted with full honors!

VI. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given the 13th of February, in the year of the Consulship of
Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas, 2758 AUC.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of Roman Times Quartely
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

---P. Minucia Tiberia Marco Minucio Tiberio Populesque S.P.D.

Kudos!


Might I say that this, in my opinion, is an excellent production.
My compliments to you, Marce Minuci Tiberi, all contributing writers
and to the technical staff who assisted with its graphic
composition. Excellent articles, and a very attractive layout.

I am not sure why the link you gave us is not lighting up, but when
I retype it, I get where I want to be.

I encourage everyone to have a gander through this month's Aquila,
and I look forward to future productions of Aquilia !

Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Audens" <MarcusAudens@w...>
wrote:

> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I come before you to announce the January Issue of "Aquila." My

apologies for the lateness of this issue, but a combination of
events have worked against us. I must give proper due to the
Honored Senior Consul and his excellent staff for thier efforts in
publishing this newsletter. They have created a new website
for "Aquila", and have come up with some new ideas for the
newsletter as well.

>
> I than them most effusively for thier work in this area. We have

n the "Aquila" staff a new Religious Editor, ProConsul and Pontiff
Astur, who has stepped forward to fill the vacancy left by the
resignation of his predesessor. My thanks for Senator Astur's
willingness to fill this difficult position.

>
> The website for the 2005 "Aquila" is
>
> www.novaroma.org/aquila?
>
> Please enjoy this newsletter, and I will be pleased to recieve all

comments regarding "Aquila."

>
> Very Respectfully;
> Your Literary Servant;
>
> Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens -- Editor Commentarium --

"Aquila" -- Nova Roma

You know not what youve wrought! LOL. Batten down the
hatches, Quirites, here we go again!
--- nabarz@...
<nabarz@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> This piece from The Times newspaper might be of

interest to some.

>
> Regards,
> N.
>

-----------------------------------------------------------

> Women Warriors From Amazon
> Fought For Britains Roman Army
> By Lewis Smith
> The Times - UK
> 22.12.2004
>
> The remains of two Amazon warriors serving with the

Roman army in

> Britain have been discovered in a cemetery that has

astonished

> archaeologists. Women soldiers were previously

unknown in the Roman

> army in Britain and the find at Brougham in Cumbria

will force a

> reappraisal of their role in 3rd-century society.
>
> The women are thought to have come from the Danube

region of Eastern

> Europe, which was where the Ancient Greeks said the

fearsome Amazon

> warriors could be found.
>
> The women, believed to have died some time between

AD220 and 300,

> were burnt on pyres upon which were placed their

horses and military

> equipment. The remains were uncovered in the 1960s

but full-scale

> analysis and identification has been possible only

since 2000 with

> technological advances.
>
> The soldiers are believed to have been part of the

numerii, a Roman

> irregular unit, which would have been attached to a

legion serving in

> Britain. Other finds show that their unit originated

from the

> Danubian provinces of Noricum, Pannonia and Ilyria

which now form

> parts of Austria, Hungary and the former Yugoslavia.

>
> Hilary Cool, the director of Barbican Research

Associates, which

> specialises in post- excavation archaeological

analysis, said that

> the remains were the most intriguing aspects of a

site that is

> changing our understanding of Roman burial rites.
>
> "It seems highly probable that we have a unit raised

in the Danubian

> lands and transferred to Britain," she says in

British Archaeology.

>
> "Though the numerii are generally referred to as

irregular units,

> they are not thought of as having women among their

ranks. However,

> the unit came from the area where the Ancient Greeks

placed the

> origin of women warriors called Amazons. Could the

numerii be even

> more irregular than anyone has ever dreamt?"
>
> The cemetery at Brougham served a fort and the

civilian settlement of

> Brocavum in the 3rd century and analysis of the

remains of more than

> 180 people showed that everybody's ashes were buried

there.

> Archaeologists have been able to determine the ages

and gender of the

> dead and to build up a detailed picture of Roman

funerals in

> Brougham.
>
> One of the sets of women warrior's remains were

found with the burnt

> remnants of animals. Bone veneer, used to decorate

boxes, was also

> found alongside evidence of a sword scabbard and red

pottery. The

> possessions suggest that she was of high status and

her age has been

> estimated at between 20 and 40 years old. The other

woman, thought to

> be between 21 and 45, was buried with a silver bowl,

a sword

> scabbard, bone veneer and ivory.
>
> Copyright 2004 Times Newspapers Ltd.
>

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1411715,00.html

>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------

> The Mysteries of Mithras:
> The Pagan Belief That Shaped the Christian World.
> http://www.innertraditions.com/isbn/1-59477-027-1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

=== Message Truncated ===


=====
S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
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OH NO!!!! Not this thread again. I never thought the other one would
end.


Quintus Servilius Fidenas

Salvete;
poor Nabarz, he's probably the only Mithras follower in Britannia.
I hope Scaurus hasn't read this or he'll burst an artery...;-)
M. Hortensia Maior

> OH NO!!!! Not this thread again. I never thought the other one

would

> end.
>
>
> Quintus Servilius Fidenas

*rolls eyes*

Indeed!
--- Charlie Collins <qservilius@...> wrote:

> OH NO!!!! Not this thread again. I never thought the other one
> would
> end.
>
>
> Quintus Servilius Fidenas
>
>

=====
Optia Vestinia Aurelia, called Vesta
Defensatrix Beldenia, Sgt. of Adiantum
Squire to Sir Ambrose Mavrorothakis
Jacobite, Smithereen, Rickmaniac and Donut
SCAdian, Filker, Bujold junkie and part-time pusher
Speaking only for myself and my evil twin Skippy.



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In a message dated 2/13/05 3:20:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:

poor Nabarz, he's probably the only Mithras follower in Britannia.



I think there are more then just him. I coresponded with several 4 years
ago.

Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

I thought it might not be offensive to link the Roman calendar with
popular contemporary festivities in some instances; as Valentine's Day
is celebrated pretty much around the world as a saecular holiday, I
offer this post.

The history of Valentine's Day --- and its patron saint --- is
shrouded in mystery. But we do know that February has long been a
month of romance. St. Valentine's Day, as we know it today, contains
vestiges of both Christian and ancient Roman tradition. As we'll see
(though I don't want to spoil the surprise too much) tomorrow is the
celebration of the Lupercalia, a wild and sexually-charged feria from
which the Western Christian Church took the idea of romantic
intercourse and combined it with the date of the martyrdom of
Valentine in Rome to create a less ... vivid ... celebration.

One legend contends that Valentine was a priest who served during the
third century in Rome. When Emperor Claudius II decided that single
men made better soldiers than those with wives and families, he
outlawed marriage for young men -- his crop of potential soldiers.
Valentine, realizing the cruelty of the decree, defied Claudius and
continued to perform marriages for young lovers in secret. When
Valentine's actions were discovered, Claudius ordered that he be put
to death. He was beaten with clubs, beheaded, and buried on the
Flaminian Way on 14 February c. A.D. 270; his relics were later
translated to the Church of Saint Praxedes.

According to one legend, Valentine actually sent the first "valentine"
greeting himself. While in prison, it is believed that Valentine fell
in love with a young girl -- who may have been his jailor's daughter
-- who visited him during his confinement. Before his death, it is
alleged that he wrote her a letter, which he signed 'From your
Valentine,' an expression that is still in use today. By the Middle
Ages, Valentine was one of the most popular saints in England and
France. He is the patron saint of affianced couples, against
fainting, bee keepers, engaged couples, epilepsy, greeting card
manufacturers (no joke), happy marriages, lovers, plague, travellers,
and young people.

Interestingly, the Eastern Church does not celebrate the feast of St.
Valentine; today the Orthodox remember St. Cyril, Apostle to the Slavs
--- he and his brother St. Methodius invented the alphabet used by
many Slavic countries to this day, including Russia, which is called
(drumroll please) the "cyrillic" alphabet.

Valete bene,

Cato

Charlie Collins <qservilius@...> wrote:

OH NO!!!! Not this thread again. I never thought the other one would end.


Quintus Servilius Fidenas

Salve Quintus Servilius Fidenas

Even I, the original instigator of that first thread, have to join you in your plea. Please, let's not go through all that again! This is a subject that was laid to rest and should remain so. Let's sleeping dogs lie!

Vale

Maxima Valeria Messallina


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Please keep in mind that we have new people coming or returning to
the main list every month. This particular name that posted the
article looks new to me so more than likely he or she missed that
conversation that dragged on before. It is not a good way to keep and
greet new people by expressing dismay about their posting. Want them
to shrug in frustration and leave?

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Valetudo quod fortuna,

Be it known that Gaius Metellus Caladus has manumitted Drusilla Metella
Germanica from his Potestas. This change was amenable to all parties and has
been approved by the Censors.

I thank him for his care and agreeableness in this matter.

I, Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus, have agreed to take Germanica under
my Tutelage.

Be it known that Drusilla Ulleria Germanica now walks amongst us.

May That Which Is Holy continue to Smile upon us all.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias, Tutor et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

--
Mind's reach should have, no bounds in search
For meaning and wit, riddles to solve
To seek and think, are greatest skills
In mankind's grasp, oftimes unused
- The Sayings of Venator

Salve,

sorry guys I didn't realise that newspaper article was already
postedÂ… obviously I need to check the list more often.

Btw I am not the only one, there are several other Mithras followers
in Britain :-)
Naturaly there are alot more in Italy, one group in Tuscany even
have their own new Mithraeum.

Regards,
Nabarz

----------------------------------------------------------------
The Mysteries of Mithras:
The Pagan Belief That Shaped the Christian World. By P.Nabarz
http://www.innertraditions.com/isbn/1-59477-027-1

Salve Nabarz;
my apologies;-. I'm glad you're here do tell, their own Mithraeum,
are the rites preserved enough so you can do the ritual?
fascinating,
Vajravand (hmm is that right?), Marca Hortensia

>

Btw I am not the only one, there are several other Mithras followers

> in Britain :-)
> Naturaly there are alot more in Italy, one group in Tuscany even
> have their own new Mithraeum.
>
> Regards,
> Nabarz
>
>

Saluete omnes!
This is a Valentine I understand although it appears there were at least another
three within the more structured church able to confuse and mask his threat to
them.

Assorted newspaper articles appear preceding today giving a short history of the
tracditional St. Valentine and his association with romance. His bones are
supposed to have been brought back to the Carmelite convent in Angiers St. If
the real Valentine's bones were brought back, then it throws an entirely unknown
light Irish Christian history. Almost certainly they were not because Saint
Valentine is a Church construct to hide the real Valentine away. He nearly
became Pope of Rome when the west still allowed other metropolitan bishops the
title and far from being a Saint in their eyes, he was the greatest figure in a
resurgent deep spiritual movement the Western churches have repeatedly killed
off, since the Dark Ages, literally. It has been rising again but this time
often giving up on calling itself Christian.

A full biography can be found under .../Valentinus - A Gnostic for All
Seasons.htm . Because all Gnostics, like most early Christians, were both
initiatory and secretive, we know more slander than actual detail. They had to
be secretive with Christians in general disliked and technically illegal, with
their less mystical rivals who made themselves the official churches even more
antagonistic, for one reason because Gnostics were not as hostile to the
prevailing religions. If anything, they were their equivalent using Christian
terminology.

Valentinus was born in North Africa around 100. He moved to education in
Alexandria and thence became prominant in Rome between 130 and 165. Tertullian
says he became a heretic in 175 but he could not be viewed as such in his
lifetime since no orthodoxy had been decided yet. His own claimed tradition ran
from Paul through Theodas (of whom we know zilch) and after him to Basilides,
who seems to have consolidated and formalised the teaching.

Gnostics teach a system of psychological self-knowledge believed to become
cosmic knowledge. Any faith is faith that the system works. Jesus occupies a
position something like the Buddha and Haile Selassie for intelligint
Rastafarians, the Representative Perfected Man who is God because Genesis states
"God[s] created Man in Their own Image, Male and Female created They Them", with
much elaborate gender disagreement impossible in a language without formal
grammatic gender.

There is certainly Origina Sin but it is God's (or rather the creator's) not
ours. If God by definition represents Perfection, anything not consciously God
is necessarily imperfect, that is, by comparison, 'sinful', which in the Greek
early Christians used means literally something like 'off-target'. The 'Fall' is
'Creation'. Jesus is the Redeemer, not by buying a wrathful deity off for us,
but as shower of the Way (like many religions, early Christians called
themselves 'The Way'), the Christ is the perfected human being which is God that
Jesus represents, and teaches us to be, not to worship knowing we never can
become. This is what really upset the more ritualised churches. Not that they
were too happy on distinguishing the Ultimate Unknowable God (the one Athenians
did not believe St. Paul about) from the creator, usually 'Jehovah', at best mad
at worst bad.

Valentinus appears to have been modern in realising that "God created man and
man created God. So is it in the world. Men make gods and they worship their
creations. If would be fitting for the gods to worship men". (Gospel of Philip,
Logion 85: 1-4). When speaking of gods, they seem to have been far more aware
than the liturgical churches that they were refering to mental projections and
personifications. The style of the day was myth. An outer circle would draw
conclusions from the story, many perhaps believing it a literal account of how
things came to be, initiates would understand it is as symbolic as a page of
equations we understand to describe, not to be, the 'real thing'. The liturgical
churches took things literally and have been laughing themselves silly at the
complexity of Gnostic myth ever since, much in the manner of a school bully
challenging the swot to tell him how solid his fist really isn't.

Valentinus would have liked our quantum science. It confirms what he realised
philosophically, that Imperfect Things are formed from Perfect No-thing, and
understanding the flaws in formation helps to bring it into line with a more
perfect expression. It can never be perfect of course, since it contrasts with
Perfection. Scientists say the observer is part of the experiment, Valentinus
takes that much further, that Understanding liberates from matter and liberates
matter. God is 'in' Existence only in the way water is 'in' ice, not like some
hidden virus. At the same time, God is beyond Existence, quite possibly
incapable of existential awareness except through living minds.

How Valentinus got himself linked to love is threefold. First, Gnostics either
hate the world or love its tragic unawareness of what it really is. Second,
Valentinians were not averse to pagan ceremonies and the archaic Roman
Lupercalia fertility rite took place on the 14th. This involved selected young
men performing secretive rites before running through the streets dressed in
fresh-flayed wolfskin whipping young women with the blood-dripping tail. Like
various less bloody rituals still enacted in Cornwall, any woman caught hoped
(or feared) to get pregnant. Since the day ended in a feast, it was extremely
popular with the less ascetic and the church tried to tone it down somewhat.

Third, Valentinians recognised seven sacrements of Baptism, Anointing,
Eucharist, Initiation of Priest/esses, Rite for the Dying, Redemption
(Apolytrosis) and Bridal Chamber. This was prominent among Valentinians and
there is every chance that others took it literally (or their enemies said so).
Some Gnostics took the evil creator Jehovah myth very literally to defy all
recognised 'standards of decency' as rules for the material world to be flouted
in worship of the Beyond. Some versions may well have used ritual sex equivalent
to the Great Rite in 3rd-level Wicca (even if that is a reconstruction).

The Bridal Chamber unifies what Jung later called the Female Animus and Male
Anima with the material Persona. There are also elements of reconciliation to
Sophia (Wisdom). Where Christ is the Logos, or Thought of God, Sophia is divine
Wisdom. Usually, she falls from Heaven through being too curious about
'Creation' and has a pretty bad time of it before recovering knowledge of
herself. (I think there is a version where her fall creates existence). Of
course as well as wisdom, very obviously prostituted to evil human ends, She is
also Us.

The Gospel of Philip again gives the basis: "When you make the two one, and when
you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the
below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the
male will not be male and the female not be female . . . then shall you enter
the kingdom". (Logion 22) Anybody who knows what that's all about probably
doesn't need it! Yet it can be seen as very modern, very simple
self-integration. A more literal expression of androgynous equality of course
underlies 1960s liberalism, the reason it terrified Conservatism into extreme
reaction like nothing else has. It revived many other Gnostic outlooks, though
not Christian. The Tao Te Ching was more familiar than the Nag Hammadi hoard.

The Gnostic principle is often called Dualistic. The Dualism is as much a
necessary distinction as matter particles in a system defining matter as energy.
Gnosticism is non-dualistic; it is what made itself orthodoxy that is dualist,
distinguishing literal Creator and Creation.

Thus the real Valentinus. A real saint in terms of his sublime teaching no
doubt, but not one for the later established Churches. Like so many things, it
is very simple and obvious, yet extremely complex to formulate into words. Had
he become 'Pope' he might perhaps have established a tolerant mystical
Christianity more like the way Buddhism developed. But by nature, Gnosticism is
élitist, individualistic and multiple. Such a system finds it hard to compete
with a formalised structure of simple faith.

A prayer and part of a blessing from the Great One Himself (Aeon is what St.Paul
called 'powers and principalities', orders of existence personified):

I am established, I am redeemed and I redeem my soul from this aeon and from all
that comes from it, in the name of IAO, who redeemed his soul unto the
redemption in Christ, the living one. (Quoted by Irenaeus).

May the Grace beyond time and space that was before the beginnings of the
Universe fill our inner man and increase within us the semblance of itself as
the grain of mustard seed.

Caesariensis

>
> I thought it might not be offensive to link the Roman calendar with
> popular contemporary festivities in some instances; as Valentine's Day
> is celebrated pretty much around the world as a saecular holiday, I
> offer this post.
>
> The history of Valentine's Day --- and its patron saint --- is
> shrouded in mystery. But we do know that February has long been a
> month of romance. St. Valentine's Day, as we know it today, contains
> vestiges of both Christian and ancient Roman tradition.

G. Equitius Cato Caesariensis quiritibusque S.P.D.

Zoinks! Well, without getting into too much discussion about You Know
Who, Caesariensis' post makes it pretty clear why Gnosticism is
considered a heresy by both Eastern and Western Churches :-)

One very significant difference I would point out between East and
West is the idea of Original Sin and the purpose of You Know Who's
work on earth:

In the West, God is seen as a sort of bookkeeper (the only root word
in the English language, by the way, with three sets of double letters
in a row --- the only other one being its dependant "bookkeeping"),
whose great ledger has on one side the accountability of Man and on
the other, to "balance" it, the grace of redemption through You Know
Who. Man is born into a corrupted state of essential sinfulness that
can only be submitted to God's justice by the sacrifice of You Know
Who. The emphasis on a legalistic approach to sin and the suffering
of You Know Who and its ramifications led to practices like
indulgences.

In the East, Man is born "good" by virtue of his creation by God, and
remains essentially "good" because Mankind does not have the power to
corrupt what God has declared good, but through Original Sin has
become unable to correctly worship God and has so been cut off from
eternal life. The work of You Know Who served to allow Mankind to
once again correctly worship (hence "orthodox" or "right/correct
praise") God and regain everlasting life through His Resurrection, and
as a by-product fulfilled the requirements for the atonement for sin
and re-opened the path of deification to Mankind. The emphasis
is placed on the glorification of You Know Who through His death and
Resurrection, and thereby the glorification of Mankind, our "theosis".

Consider the contrast between depictions of the Him on the Cross: in
the West, we have dolorous hymns like the "Stabat Mater"; in the East,
He is seen as the "King of Creation reigning from the Tree" and the
Trisagion.

While the emperor Claudius II was no great friend to the Christian
Church, the Valentine most often understood to be the foundation for
today's celebration was not punished for being a Christian per se, but
rather because he directly disobeyed a decree of the emperor. The
Romans were more concerned about public order and obedience than about
theological niceties; except for the Three Great Persecutions,
Christians were basically left to their own unless they created a
public disturbance or openly flaunted the breaking of the law, as in
St. Valentine's case.

Valete bene,

Cato

C. Albius Gadelicus Quiritibus Novae Romae S P D -

Salvete, all!

I just rejoined NR after being absent for quite some time. It's
interesting to see all the changes!

One that has me personally a bit confused, though, is NR's family
structure. I've been reading through the laws and it's helped, but my
grasp is still a little fuzzy. I'm sure this has all been gone
through *ad nauseam*, but I can't find it so I hope the good Censores
or someone else will be able to enlighten me.

As I understand it, there are no longer 'patres/matres familiarum' at
the level of the gens, only the family level. Nonne?

Is there then any control of nomina gentilia? That is, could just
anyone become a citizen with the nomen, say, Albius/Albia, and would
I therefore have to recognize him/her as gentilis meus/mea?

Is a prospective citizen still required to write to the founder (I
would say, 'pater/mater familias,' but that word now applies to heads
of *familiae* not *gentes*, correct?) asking for permission to take
the nomen?

As I say, forgive me if this has all been said before...

Valete bene,
C. Albius Gadelicus

Salve,

As someone new to Nova Roma and who missed the original discussion
regarding this, I would be interested to read a brief summary of any
conclusions arrived at by Nova Roma regarding this matter.

Vale!

>Charlie Collins <qservilius@...> wrote:
>
>OH NO!!!! Not this thread again. I never thought the other one would end.
>
>
>Quintus Servilius Fidenas
>
>Salve Quintus Servilius Fidenas
>
>Even I, the original instigator of that first thread, have to join you in
>your plea. Please, let's not go through all that again! This is a subject
>that was laid to rest and should remain so. Let's sleeping dogs lie!
>
>Vale
>
>Maxima Valeria Messallina
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Welcome to the newest member of the gens. I look forward to getting to know
you and will support you in what way I can

Clovius Ullerius Ursus

_____

From: Stefn Ullarsson [mailto:catamount_grange@...]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:57 PM
To: Forum Majorum
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A Name Change and Profer of Tutelage


Valetudo quod fortuna,

Be it known that Gaius Metellus Caladus has manumitted Drusilla Metella
Germanica from his Potestas. This change was amenable to all parties and
has
been approved by the Censors.

I thank him for his care and agreeableness in this matter.

I, Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus, have agreed to take Germanica
under
my Tutelage.

Be it known that Drusilla Ulleria Germanica now walks amongst us.

May That Which Is Holy continue to Smile upon us all.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias, Tutor et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

--
Mind's reach should have, no bounds in search
For meaning and wit, riddles to solve
To seek and think, are greatest skills
In mankind's grasp, oftimes unused
- The Sayings of Venator



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave;
here it is pro and con.

Con: women wove
Pro: they did not

vale
Marca Hortensia Maior, the original culprit;-

> Salve,
>
> As someone new to Nova Roma and who missed the original discussion
> regarding this, I would be interested to read a brief summary of any
> conclusions arrived at by Nova Roma regarding this matter.
>
> Vale!
>
>
>
>
>> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >

Salvete Quirites,

F & R Parkyn wrote:

> As someone new to Nova Roma and who missed the original discussion
> regarding this, I would be interested to read a brief summary of any
> conclusions arrived at by Nova Roma regarding this matter.

The concensus, such as it was, seems to have been that while it's
entirely possible for women of the period to have been employed as
warriors or guards in some private capacity, it's not plausible to claim
these women were actual soldiers in a Roman legion. They may have been
guards, they may have been private warriors employed in some other
capacity, they may have been prostitutes who were given gifts of armor,
they may have been something else. In order for evidence to rise to the
level of proof that a woman was actually a member of a legion it would
require something like a diploma (military discharge) with the woman's
name on it.

Valete,

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Nabarz;
> my apologies;-. I'm glad you're here do tell, their own Mithraeum,
> are the rites preserved enough so you can do the ritual?
> fascinating,
> Vajravand (hmm is that right?), Marca Hortensia
> >
>

Salve & Nama

There is the Mithras Liurgy rite, from around 300AD-400AD, which is a
complete ceremony. However, there are some debates about if its a
typical rite or one that combined with Egyptian material by the
person who wrote it. This is used extensively in neo-mithraism.

There are also number of inscriptions eg Santa Prisca which help.
Overall there is little material to use, hence people have been
experimenting with different ritual formats, ideas and material :)

I am interested in the revival of the Mithraic Mysteries, and I have
put togther seven mithras initiatory rites/meditations in my book for
the seven grade in Mithraism:
http://www.innertraditions.com/isbn/1-59477-027-1

There have mithraic based groups/people since 1910s, well at least
thats when first Mithraic revivalist books were published.

btw The Italian Mithraic group I mention have website in Italian at
www.mithra.it

Regards,
Nabarz

> Btw I am not the only one, there are several other Mithras

followers

> > in Britain :-)
> > Naturaly there are alot more in Italy, one group in Tuscany even
> > have their own new Mithraeum.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Nabarz
> >
> >

Valeatudo quod fortuna omnes,

Thought this might prove of some little interest.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050215/ap_on_sc/rome_s_origins&e=2


=======================================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

--
"In Romae viae omniae terminant"

C. Albius Gadelicus bonae Flauiae Tulliae Ualeriae Scholasticae
Quiritibusque Nouae Romae S P D

Auete!

I'm just returning to NR, and am slowly wading through the gazillion
posts on the list... :-) I had a couple of questions about this
ritual and the corrections.

I guess I should start by saying that this isn't directed at the
Cerealia ritual *per se*, just for my knowledge in adapting it for
other rituals. Anyway...

FTVS:

> 'Tus' is a
> neuter noun, so the accusative, here required, is also 'tus,'

not '*turum,' which, as the

> asterisk indicates, doesn't exist--at least not as an accusative

singular.

Salve bona Flauia Tullia -

My dictionary (Bantam New College Latin & English) has 'tus
turis' 'incense; frankincense' and gives the gender as masculine.

FTVS:

> A more common way of saying 'be honored,' particularly in a

religious context, is to

> say 'macte' + ablative, as Pontifex Scaurus has done many times--

'macte vino inferio esto'

> 'be honored with this humble wine.' The ablative of the

participle 'libante' is more normally

> 'libanti,' when used as an adjective as it is here, but may be in '-

e' as well. This is,

> however, a construction of the personal agent, so the

preposition 'a/ab' is required: 'a

> me vinum libanti,' though I have a feeling that the gerundive might

be a better way of

> expressing this 'a me vino libando.'

How about "macte hoc vino esto a me libato," would that work? It
seems simple, and I'm a fan of simple. :-)

Also, could someone who knows compare and contrast the meanings
of "afferre" and "offerre"? I tend to use "offerre" but maybe it's
not the most appropriate word.

I do appreciate the help - I think if I'm going to make offerings in
Latin, the least I can do is make sure my Latin is as good as I can
make it...

Tibi vobisque gratias ago.

Valete bene omnes,
C. Albius Gadelicus

> My dictionary (Bantam New College Latin & English) has 'tus
> turis' 'incense; frankincense' and gives the gender as masculine.

As a matter of fact, either is right, perhaps. Dr. Traupman has masculine; the folks at Oxford, neuter. Cato (De Agr., 134) seems to agree with Dr. Traupman by using what could essentially be either masculine or feminine, though not neuter. Cato doesn't make things easy, as this is the only place where he uses the word. Unfortunately, I don't see anything in the Teubnerian copy of the text, nor in the commentary, to shed any light on the matter. Given the ritual nature of things, though, it might be better to go with what is written in Cato, and use 'ture'.

[...]

> Also, could someone who knows compare and contrast the meanings
> of "afferre" and "offerre"? I tend to use "offerre" but maybe it's
> not the most appropriate word.

Here's how William Whitaker's program parses the two words:

adferr.e V PRES ACTIVE INF 0 X
adferr.e V PRES PASSIVE IND 2 S Early uncommon
adferr.e V PRES PASSIVE IMP 2 S
adfero, adferre, adtuli, adlatus V TRANS [XXXAO]
bring to, carry, convey; report, bring word, allege, announce; produce, cause;

offerr.e V PRES ACTIVE INF 0 X
offerr.e V PRES PASSIVE IND 2 S Early uncommon
offerr.e V PRES PASSIVE IMP 2 S
offero, offerre, obtuli, oblatus V [XXXAX]
offer; present; cause; bestow;

Not sure how much help this is. If anything needs clarification, just drop me a line and I'll be glad to oblige.

Vale,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus
Fetial

Flavia Tullia Scholastica Caio Albio Gadelico quiritibus, sociis,
peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.

In part because I have been asked in private not to discuss corrections
to the Latin of religious rituals in public, I'm going to answer portions of
this offlist, and will deal here only with matters which appear to be of
more general interest. I invite anyone who shares C. Albucius Gadelicus'
interest in correct Latin for ritual or other purposes to join the Sodalitas
Latinitatis (Latinitas, as Yahoo calls it), where it is perhaps more
appropriate to discuss matters of Latin. All of us should be aiming at
improving our Latin, and that in Nova Roma as a whole, but until such time
as we all are at least somewhat conversant with the niceties of Latin
grammar, I would prefer to avoid boring the (still) Latinless with
discussions on this topic--not that we shouldn't discuss Latin here.

> C. Albius Gadelicus bonae Flauiae Tulliae Ualeriae Scholasticae
> Quiritibusque Nouae Romae S P D
>
> Auete!
>
> I'm just returning to NR, and am slowly wading through the gazillion
> posts on the list... :-) I had a couple of questions about this
> ritual and the corrections.
>

Fortunately, the list has been fairly quiet the last few days. . .

> I guess I should start by saying that this isn't directed at the
> Cerealia ritual *per se*, just for my knowledge in adapting it for
> other rituals. Anyway...
>
> FTVS:
>> 'Tus' is a
>> neuter noun, so the accusative, here required, is also 'tus,'
> not '*turum,' which, as the
>> asterisk indicates, doesn't exist--at least not as an accusative
> singular.
>
> Salve bona Flauia Tullia -
>
> My dictionary (Bantam New College Latin & English) has 'tus
> turis' 'incense; frankincense' and gives the gender as masculine.
>

It is indeed 'tus, turis,' 'frankincense,' 'incense,' but the Oxford
Latin Dictionary (the best unabridged Latin dictionary in English) gives the
gender as neuter. The other (older, less extensive) unabridged
Latin-English dictionary, Lewis and Short, also give the gender as neuter,
as does Cassells' intermediate dictionary, though the Amsco New College
Latin Dictionary gives the gender as masculine. Perhaps both the Amsco, and
your dictionary as well, have typos--I would certainly be inclined to go
with the gender listed in the two most authoritative dictionaries, and that
in an old standby in the intermediate range. Even my Collins Gem dictionary
gives the gender as neuter--and that little one is approved by one of our
senior Latinists, Avitus.

There is also a variant spelling 'thus,' derived from the Greek,
'thyos.'

> FTVS:
>> A more common way of saying 'be honored,' particularly in a
> religious context, is to
>> say 'macte' + ablative, as Pontifex Scaurus has done many times--
> 'macte vino inferio esto'
>> 'be honored with this humble wine.' The ablative of the
> participle 'libante' is more normally
>> 'libanti,' when used as an adjective as it is here, but may be in '-
> e' as well. This is,
>> however, a construction of the personal agent, so the
> preposition 'a/ab' is required: 'a
>> me vinum libanti,' though I have a feeling that the gerundive might
> be a better way of
>> expressing this 'a me vino libando.'
>
> How about "macte hoc vino esto a me libato," would that work? It
> seems simple, and I'm a fan of simple. :-)
>

I'm going to deal with this section offlist.

> Also, could someone who knows compare and contrast the meanings
> of "afferre" and "offerre"? I tend to use "offerre" but maybe it's
> not the most appropriate word.
>

I'll discuss this at greater length offlist, but basically,
'afferre/adferre' means 'to bring to' and 'offerre' means 'to cause to be
encountered,' 'to put in the path of.' There are numerous other meanings,
but a quick check of 'offerre' doesn't seem to indicate much that would
apply to making sacrifices. The closest is 'to provide, supply' and 'to
hand over, deliver, surrender.'

> I do appreciate the help - I think if I'm going to make offerings in
> Latin, the least I can do is make sure my Latin is as good as I can
> make it...
>

This is a most laudable goal--and part of the reason why I corrected the
Latin of this ritual in public.

> Tibi vobisque gratias ago.

Flocci est.

> Valete bene omnes,
> C. Albius Gadelicus
>

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica

Salvete omnes,


Joining the list of people whose names have changed recently, I am now
Cyrene Gladia Corva Apollinaris. Thanks to the censores for their
assistance!



Bene valete,
Cyrene



--
AIM: Kyrene Ariadne Yahoo!: kyreneariadne
* Hellenion: http://www.hellenion.org
* Temenos Theon: http://kyrene.4t.com
* Demos Oreiadon: http://demos-oreiadon.8m.net

Beloved Pan, and all ye other gods who haunt this place,
make me beautiful within, and grant that what-ever
happens outside of me will help my soul to grow.
May I always be aware that true wealth lies in wisdom,
and may my "gold" be so abundant that only a wise
man can lift and carry it away. For me that is prayer
enough. - Socrates

M. Hortensia Maior Fl. Tulliae Valeriae Scholasticae spd;
May I say, I for one am very interested in rituals and the proper
Latin and would like this discussion to continue in public for all
our benefits.I don't know what person has a problem with a Latinist
helping them, but for sure I'd love it.

I really don't think that any of us are religious geniuses who knows
everything, so please let us all learn together. We can only get
wiser and the religio will benefit, and one day we'll all be speaking
Latin on this list!
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior TRP


In part because I have been asked in private not to discuss
corrections

> to the Latin of religious rituals in public, I'm going to answer

portions of

> this offlist,

A. Apollonius Cordus C. Albio Gadelico omnibusque sal.

While you're waiting for an official answer, here are
some unofficial answers:

> As I understand it, there are no longer
> 'patres/matres familiarum' at
> the level of the gens, only the family level. Nonne?

Correct. A gens now has no leader of any kind.

> Is there then any control of nomina gentilia? That
> is, could just
> anyone become a citizen with the nomen, say,
> Albius/Albia, and would
> I therefore have to recognize him/her as gentilis
> meus/mea?

Yes. Anyone can join any gens, subject to the
agreement of the censores or their delegates. This is
in line with historical practice.

> Is a prospective citizen still required to write to
> the founder (I
> would say, 'pater/mater familias,' but that word now
> applies to heads
> of *familiae* not *gentes*, correct?) asking for
> permission to take
> the nomen?

No, a prospective citizen does not have to write to
the founder of the gens; yes, the words paterfamilias
and materfamilias now refer exclusively to heads of familiae.





___________________________________________________________
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Salvete Quirites, et salve Gadelico,

The original message that Cordus is replying to below seems to have gone awry
in my e-mail. I'd have answered it before this had I seen it.

In any case, the answers that Cordus provides below are complete and correct.

Valete,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Censor, Novae Romae

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:

>
> A. Apollonius Cordus C. Albio Gadelico omnibusque sal.
>
> While you're waiting for an official answer, here are
> some unofficial answers:
>
> > As I understand it, there are no longer
> > 'patres/matres familiarum' at
> > the level of the gens, only the family level. Nonne?
>
> Correct. A gens now has no leader of any kind.
>
> > Is there then any control of nomina gentilia? That
> > is, could just
> > anyone become a citizen with the nomen, say,
> > Albius/Albia, and would
> > I therefore have to recognize him/her as gentilis
> > meus/mea?
>
> Yes. Anyone can join any gens, subject to the
> agreement of the censores or their delegates. This is
> in line with historical practice.
>
> > Is a prospective citizen still required to write to
> > the founder (I
> > would say, 'pater/mater familias,' but that word now
> > applies to heads
> > of *familiae* not *gentes*, correct?) asking for
> > permission to take
> > the nomen?
>
> No, a prospective citizen does not have to write to
> the founder of the gens; yes, the words paterfamilias
> and materfamilias now refer exclusively to heads of familiae.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salve

> Salvete Quirites, et salve Gadelico,
>
> The original message that Cordus is replying to below seems to have gone
> awry in my e-mail. I'd have answered it before this had I seen it.
>
> In any case, the answers that Cordus provides below are complete and
> correct.

In such case, I'd ask both the Censores, as a matter of kindness to someone who
actually created a gens, gave it his own real life name and tried (even if
admittedly with not great success so far) to have it developing following a
given idea and philosophy, not to agree to anyone coming from outside Italy
asking to become a Constantinus.

Gens Constantinia is currently made by Italians only and was created with that
exact idea in mind, in order to, in time, become a pole of attraction and
socialization with an active mailing list in italian and, by increasing
tehnumber of active and "stable" citizens, directly and indirectly benefit Nova
Roma as a whole.

Similar ideas were common to other gentes as well. Gens Minia, as far as I know,
is mostly a real life family in France, gens Modia was created to be a pole of
attraction for religio followers, gens Solaria is, as far as I know, mostly
made of people knowing each other in real life, dealing with real life
recostructionism and living in the Italian city of Bologna. And I'm sure there
are other examples. It is true that many Patres and Patres Gentium neglected
their duties, but as a matter of respect for the ones who actually put an
effort in shaping their own gentes, I hope the Censores shall respect their
original ideas and visions rather than allowing just everyone to "join"
indiscriminately and put in place what it will be and would be felt under all
aspects as a legal hjiacking of someone's else ideas, work and efforts.


valete

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus
Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis