Salvete!

Thank you all who replied to my questions! I will check out the list
for Austroccidentalis and see what can be done about getting a group
of pics from out west. *grin*

And yes, reading the discussions all in a row felt much less like
watching the conversations of a bunch of people in their living room
pounding away on a keyboard, but like the forum you are trying to
create. In all my imagining of the ancestral curmudgeons and
firebrands butting heads and wielding words like finely crafted
weapons, alongside discussions of excitement and unified vision, I
have found it on this list. Wahooo! Long live Rome!

Gratias et valete!
Leigh Anne Bushkovski For Now

G. Popillius Laenas M. Hortensia Maior et Quirites S.P.D.

Here is a little more background information on this lex.

As was the practice in antiqua, a draft of the Lex Popillia
Senatoria was presented to the Senate for comment in February.
There was an active debate and the vast majority of Senate comments
and suggestions were incorporated into the final version submitted
to the Comitia. Although I cannot say the Lex has the support of
the Senate, because no vote was taken, I certainly believe that to
be the case.

The main purpose of the lex is to limit the size of the Senate to
some reasobable subset of our active / participating cives. I.e. to
avoid a Senate of 100 "governing" active cives numbering 200.

A secondary purpose is to improve the historacy of the process by
which Senators were sublected (added to the senate) and to provide
guidlines to the Censores for such sublection.

Accensus Cordus' research indictaes that The standard work covering
the lectio senatus (review of the senate-rolls) is P. Willems' "Le
Senat de la Republique Romaine", 2nd ed., Paris, 1885.

I will forward the relevant sections to you (or anyone else who
asks) privately.

As for postponment, April is an impossible month for legislation
because of the religious calendar, therefore, I have chosen to
present this now.

Valete,

Laenas





V--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

>
> M. Hortensia Maior Consulari G.Popillio Laenitas spd;
> Salve;
> with respect Consul Laenas, I ask you to postpone Contio. This

is

> an extremely serious law with various future consequences that
> affect us all.
>
> The writer of this Lex, A. Apollonius Cordus is away and not due
> back until next week.
>
> I am also in the process of moving and my Roman history and law
> books are packed.
>
> I cannot properly discuss and analyse the pros and cons of this

law

> and its future implications for the benefit of the Plebs, nor can

I

> ask Cordus to direct me to online sources.
>
> There is no rush to put this law into place; so I respectfully

ask

> you to postpone Contio, frankly most of us are tired from the

recent

> vote and the Saturninus affair and have a bit of lex fatigue.
>
> bene vale in pace deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP

M. Hortensia Maior G. Popillio Laenitas spd.
Salve;
I would appreciate Consul your sending me some of the research
Cordus has gathered. This is a serious change with future
consequences that affect all the people. Again I see much harm in
haste and the writer of the lex is unavailable.

I have checked the Calendar that thanks to Cordus and Scaevola has
the Dies Comitalis posted; http://okopnik.freeshell.org/NR/cal.cg

It shows Dies Comitilialis for April 24th, April 26th, April 27th,
April 28, April 29 and abundant ones for May. I respectfully ask you
to postpone the Contio. There is no urgency and it is a matter that
deserves our fullest attention and discusssion.
bene vale in pace deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP

> As for postponment, April is an impossible month for legislation
> because of the religious calendar, therefore, I have chosen to
> present this now.
>
> Valete,
>
> Laenas
>
>
>
>
>
> V--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia Maior Consulari G.Popillio Laenitas spd;
> > Salve;
> > with respect Consul Laenas, I ask you to postpone Contio.

This

> is
> > an extremely serious law with various future consequences that
> > affect us all.
> >
> > The writer of this Lex, A. Apollonius Cordus is away and not

due

> > back until next week.
> >
> > I am also in the process of moving and my Roman history and law
> > books are packed.
> >
> > I cannot properly discuss and analyse the pros and cons of this
> law
> > and its future implications for the benefit of the Plebs, nor can
> I
> > ask Cordus to direct me to online sources.
> >
> > There is no rush to put this law into place; so I respectfully
> ask
> > you to postpone Contio, frankly most of us are tired from the
> recent
> > vote and the Saturninus affair and have a bit of lex fatigue.
> >
> > bene vale in pace deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior TRP

--->

> M. Hortensia Maior G. Popillio Laenitas Quiritibusque spd.
> my apologies, I mistyped the url. This should be the correct

link.

>

the Dies Comitalis posted; http://okopnik.freeshell.org/NR/cal.cgi

>
> It shows Dies Comitilialis for April 24th, April 26th, April 27th,
> April 28, April 29 and abundant ones for May.

bene valete

Marca Hortensia Maior TRP

>
> > As for postponment, April is an impossible month for legislation
> > because of the religious calendar, therefore, I have chosen to
> > present this now.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > V--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia Maior Consulari G.Popillio Laenitas spd;
> > > Salve;
> > > with respect Consul Laenas, I ask you to postpone Contio.
> This
> > is
> > > an extremely serious law with various future consequences that
> > > affect us all.
> > >
> > > The writer of this Lex, A. Apollonius Cordus is away and not
> due
> > > back until next week.
> > >
> > > I am also in the process of moving and my Roman history and

law

> > > books are packed.
> > >
> > > I cannot properly discuss and analyse the pros and cons of

this

> > law
> > > and its future implications for the benefit of the Plebs, nor

can

> > I
> > > ask Cordus to direct me to online sources.
> > >
> > > There is no rush to put this law into place; so I

respectfully

> > ask
> > > you to postpone Contio, frankly most of us are tired from the
> > recent
> > > vote and the Saturninus affair and have a bit of lex fatigue.
> > >
> > > bene vale in pace deorum
> > > M. Hortensia Maior TRP

Salvete Quirites, et salve Leigh Anne,

izzytejedora wrote:

> I am researching my interest in the possibility of becoming a citizen
> and have been in contact with the office of the censores regarding
> acquiring a Roman name (*bow of gratias*).

You're most kindly welcome ma'am. Please do be patient with us, and I
feel sure we'll get you taken care of in reasonably short order.

> 1)As I haven't been able to find a website for America
> Austroccidentalis, I am hoping that this general hello will put me in
> touch with anyone from my area. I see multiple Colorado names in the
> album, and am wondering if there are any events in which I can meet
> people in person. I live in Pueblo.

Consul Laenas has already shown you the address for the provincial
mailing list. Additionally, you may wish to write to Arnamentia Moravia
Aurelia, who I expect will be approved as the next provincial governor
once the Senate finishes voting.

[...]

> I would like to know--if you are a citizen and
> you feel that you need Nova Roma, why?

I'm not going to wither away and die without it, but if you consider
things in terms of Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs, then my need for Nova
Roma ranks up there at the top of the pyramid in the self-actualization
needs. It's an organization and a society in which I can interact with
similar (and dissimilar) Romanophiles while building something enduring
for the future.

> but what makes you love the
> *society*? i.e. why did you wish to be a citizen in contrast to a
> website snooper or a list lurker?

Cato has already answered this quite stirringly. Mostly I'd say that in
my case it's the desire to be an active participant, rather than an
external observer.

> 3) I am still a bit fuzzy on the whole gens thing. I am getting the
> idea that procedures have recently changed

The change was a long time coming. A law was passed during 2003 and
ratified in early 2005 which gave people all of last year as a grace
period to organize themselves into familia. Most never noticed until
the Censors sent them e-mail early this year advising them to take some
action or it would be taken for them. That resulted in a certain amount
of turbulence during January most of which has died down now.

> --that petitioning a
> m/paterfamilias is no longer a requirement in choosing a family
> name.

Effectively yes. More to the point, there is no longer any special
privilege given to the heads of gentes, who were improperly being called
paterfamilias. We've adopted a system now which is much closer to the
system of antiquity.

> That each new citizen will become their own m/paterfamilias of
> their particular branch.

Most of the time. There's nothing preventing a new citizen from joining
a pre-existing family, but for most adults joining NR I'd recommend
joining as a 'sui iuris' citizen who is mater- or paterfamilias of your
own domus.

> Does the gens now function as more of an
> alphabetical listing of people who happen to share the same family
> name

Yes.

> 4) There are only two other passions higher on my list of priorities
> than All-Things-Roman, and those are my family and dancing. The list
> for the Sodalitates for the arts said specifically poetry. What is
> there for dance in this society?

There is the Collegia of Terpsichore (currently consisting of two
people! I'm one of them) which is devoted to dance in the Sodalitas
Musarum. So come on over and increase our number.

Vale, et valete Quirites,

-- Marinus

Salvete Quirites, et salve Secunde Martiani,

bomborwhack wrote:

> Hi everyone, I just turned in my application for citizenship and am
> very excited!! Any ideas how long it may take?

I imagine you'll be getting a reply from the Rogators pretty soon. Keep
an eye out for that and work with them. I'm going to guess that they'll
want you to consider a nomen other than Martianus, since it's not a
proper nomen but rather an agnomen meaning "adopted into the Martii."
But I'm sure you'll get things worked out in short order.

> Also, I had another idea that I would like to pitch? Would any of
> you be interested in an online community website for Nova Romans?

How would this be different from our current community website at
novaroma.org?

> Seeing the success of sites such as Friendster and Myspace, I think
> it would be really cool to have something like that where we all
> know we already have one thing in common!!

I'd be inclined to follow the fine Roman tradition of moving in and
taking over. If people want to have such a thing why not just get
Friendster accounts? We already have one website which requires a lot
of work to maintain.

Vale, et valete,

-- Marinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopilliuslaenas@y...> wrote:

> The main purpose of the lex is to limit the size of the Senate to
> some reasobable subset of our active / participating cives. I.e.

to

> avoid a Senate of 100 "governing" active cives numbering 200.

Salve,

I agree with you in principle that under the current system where
Praetors and above who when elected aren't Senators automatically
get enrolled will eventually lead to a Senate that is over sized for
its purpose, I don't think this law is the answer.

While it limits the number of Senators it doesn't limit the number
of people voting in the Senate as future Praetors, Consuls, Censors
who aren't Senators will be allowed to vote in Senate meetings. At
some point the number of non-Senators allowed to vote in Senate
meetings will exceed the number of actual Senators. So while the
Senate may only have say 28 Senators (the current number) there can
be well over that number allowed to vote so the effect of a 100
Senators governing 200 people remains except only a small subset
actually have the title of Senator.

For what it's worth this law looks like a backlash against the
recent adlections and appears to be slamming the door in the face of
anyone in the future from ever earning the honor of being a Senator
of Nova Roma. Even if this Lex is passed this is why I don't
believe it will remain in force very long. Sooner or later there
will be a Consul or a pair of Consuls elected that aren't already
Senators and they are unhappy that those that were Consuls in the
past were automatically enrolled as Senators and they aren't
(especially when there are Senators that have never been elected
Praetor, Consul, or Censor) and legislation will be promulgated to
rescind this proposed lex.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

I very much oppose the recent adlections into the senate, as most are well
aware.

However, I believe a possible solution to the current issue of senate cap is
to strip the senate of all senators who have not held the office of Praetor
or higher, and to require future senators to be either former praetors, and to
require consuls to have been praetors.

Additionally, it seems time to tighten up the cursus honorum.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 3/23/2005 4:47:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
richmal@... writes:

I agree with you in principle that under the current system where
Praetors and above who when elected aren't Senators automatically
get enrolled will eventually lead to a Senate that is over sized for
its purpose, I don't think this law is the answer.

While it limits the number of Senators it doesn't limit the number
of people voting in the Senate as future Praetors, Consuls, Censors
who aren't Senators will be allowed to vote in Senate meetings. At
some point the number of non-Senators allowed to vote in Senate
meetings will exceed the number of actual Senators. So while the
Senate may only have say 28 Senators (the current number) there can
be well over that number allowed to vote so the effect of a 100
Senators governing 200 people remains except only a small subset
actually have the title of Senator.

For what it's worth this law looks like a backlash against the
recent adlections and appears to be slamming the door in the face of
anyone in the future from ever earning the honor of being a Senator
of Nova Roma. Even if this Lex is passed this is why I don't
believe it will remain in force very long. Sooner or later there
will be a Consul or a pair of Consuls elected that aren't already
Senators and they are unhappy that those that were Consuls in the
past were automatically enrolled as Senators and they aren't
(especially when there are Senators that have never been elected
Praetor, Consul, or Censor) and legislation will be promulgated to
rescind this proposed lex.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,

The Senators and those others who attend its meetings (Aediles and
Tribunes) have known about this proposed Lex Popillia Senatoria
since early February.

Other cives, however, may be concerned about a proposal that may be
seen as revolutionary and far reaching. I do not see it as either,
so I though I would offer a summary of what I intend this lex to
accomplish.

(1) First, and foremost, the lex is intended to limit the size of
the Senate to some reasonable subset of our active citizens. What
is "reasonable", and what is "active" is, and has been in the
Senate, debatable. However, I have chosen measures which seem best
to me after consideration of several alternatives.

This main point is entirely my idea. My accensus Cordus is not to
blame for any perceived problems with this core idea.

My concern is that, without limits, the Senate would one day
encompass the entire body of active cives and this seems
unreasonable and undesirable. It would also be unhistorical.

(2) The lex provides some guidelines that the Censors must consider
in adding cives to the Senate.

They must first select ex-dictators, consuls, censors and praetors.
This is basically the way we do things now.

The lex does make some distinction between ex-magistrates who are
entitled to speak AND VOTE in the Senate who may not have been
formally added as Senators. This is an effort to be more historical
as there is evidence that this was the way it was done in
antiquity. It does not diminish the "power" of such magistrates and
ex-magistrates and they still speak and vote.

(3) The Censors retain their Constitutional power to add and remove
Senators. The proposed lex does not substantially alter the current
law.

To my mind that is it. The only truly new idea and change is the
limit itself.

Perhaps this will help the discussion.

Valete.

Salve Quinte Cassi.

SNIPPES

> ... and appears to be slamming the door in the face of
> anyone in the future from ever earning the honor of being a

Senator

> of Nova Roma.<<

Laenas: I do not see it that way. I do believe the number of
Assuidi will increase enough to allow new Consuls, Praetors, and
Censors who aren't Senators to be added, but not much above that.

It is true that either we will have to increase the number of
assidui cives (a good thing in my mind) or one will have to attain
the rank of Praetor in order to have a reasonable chance of entering
the Senate (something which I also think is not a bad thing).

>Even if this Lex is passed this is why I don't
> believe it will remain in force very long. Sooner or later there
> will be a Consul or a pair of Consuls elected that aren't already
> Senators and they are unhappy that those that were Consuls in the
> past were automatically enrolled as Senators and they aren't
> (especially when there are Senators that have never been elected
> Praetor, Consul, or Censor) and legislation will be promulgated to
> rescind this proposed lex.

Laenas: As I said, I believe there will be room to add new Consuls
etc. However, the law could easily be amended in the future to
change the measuring points (15% and assidui cives)if they proved
unworkable in our future circumstances.

Vale,

Laenas

G. Equitius Cato G. Popillius Laenas Consule quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve Consul, et salvete omnes.

I want to first state that I support wholeheartedly the effort you
have put into a reasonable lex regarding the size of the Senate in
comparison to the number of cives. It makes sense and I would vote
for it in a New York minute.

However, the laundry list of who "shall" be sublected first, second,
etc., is wholly unRoman and indeed goes against the very spirit of the
lex Ovinia of which mention is made. The lex Ovinia tribunicia (c.
318 B.C.) was a plebiscitum which gave the censors certain powers in
regulating the lists of the senators (ordo senatorius): the censors
were completely in control of who could and who could not be added to
the rolls of the Senate; the lex Ovinia was meant to be a guide,
emphasizing the importance of having held a magistracy before becoming
a senator.

So I agree with Modius Athanasius on his point regarding magistracies;
in fact, Livy makes clear that magistracy is a prerequisite of
membership in the Senate, in almost a throwaway sentence in the midst
of describing the disaster at Cannae:

"Amongst the number were both the quaestors attached to the consuls,
L. Atilius and L. Furius Bibulcus, twenty-nine military tribunes,
several ex-consuls, ex-praetors, and ex-aediles (amongst them are
included Cn. Servilius Geminus and M. Minucius, who was Master of the
Horse the previous year and, some years before that, consul), and in
addition to these, eighty men who had either been senators or FILLED
THE OFFICES QUALIFYING THEM FOR ELECTION TO THE SENATE [my emphasis]
and who had volunteered for service with the legions." - Livy, History
of Rome 22.49

At one point, the rolls of the Senate had fallen so low that one of
the former censors was actually elected Dictator in order to fill the
Senate House:

"There had been no revision of the roll of the senate since L.
Aemilius and C. Flaminius were censors, though there had been such
heavy losses amongst the senators during the last five years on the
field of battle, as well as from the fatalities and accidents to which
all are liable. In compliance with the unanimous wish, the subject was
brought forward by the praetor, M. Aemilius, in the absence of the
Dictator, who after the loss of Casilinum had rejoined the army. Sp.
Carvilius spoke at considerable length about the dearth of senators,
and also the very small number of citizens from whom senators could be
chosen....It was ultimately decided to nominate as Dictator a man who
had been censor before, and was the oldest man living who had held
that office, in order that the roll of senators might be revised." -
Livy, History of Rome 23.22

So we have two trains of thought here: one is that the censors are
completely free to enroll senators; two is that they were required
only to choose from among men who had held magistracies in order to
fill any vacancies --- as the lex Ovinia says, "ex omni ordine optimum
quemque curiatim" --- the ordo mentioned in this lex is the ordo
senatorius, i.e. men who were eligible for the senate because of the
office they had held.

I would strongly suggest that the Consul divide the lex he has
proposed into two parts; the first, dealing solely with the
calculation of the size of the Senate, the second dealing with his
proposed "order" of sublection. The first would be wholly reasonable
and makes perfect sense. The second would unfortunately not be in the
same category, as I feel it violates the letter and the spirit of the
ancients' intent.

Vale et valete,

Cato

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

I think the honorable thing for our current senators to do would be for
every senator who has never been a Praetor, Consul, or Censor to resign from the
senate. Then require Praetor as the initial step into the senate. Also,
encourage senators to run for Praetor and require consuls already be senators.

In a message dated 3/23/2005 6:09:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:

So we have two trains of thought here: one is that the censors are
completely free to enroll senators; two is that they were required
only to choose from among men who had held magistracies in order to
fill any vacancies --- as the lex Ovinia says, "ex omni ordine optimum
quemque curiatim" --- the ordo mentioned in this lex is the ordo
senatorius, i.e. men who were eligible for the senate because of the
office they had held.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopilliuslaenas@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve Quinte Cassi.
>
> SNIPPES
>
> > ... and appears to be slamming the door in the face of
> > anyone in the future from ever earning the honor of being a
> Senator
> > of Nova Roma.<<
>
> Laenas: I do not see it that way. I do believe the number of
> Assuidi will increase enough to allow new Consuls, Praetors, and
> Censors who aren't Senators to be added, but not much above that.
>
> It is true that either we will have to increase the number of
> assidui cives (a good thing in my mind) or one will have to attain
> the rank of Praetor in order to have a reasonable chance of

entering

> the Senate (something which I also think is not a bad thing).
>

Salve,

On two points we agree. Raising the number of Assidui citizens and
at least being elected Praetor as the minimum qualification to be a
Senator to be good things.

However intent and what something looks like can be miles apart. In
politics what something looks like can often be far more important
then the intention. The intent to have a Senate that is of
reasonable size and proportionate to the active population is not a
bad intent.

However what this looks like is a case of "We've got ours, the rest
of you go pound sand because no matter how hard you bust your butt
for Nova Roma you ain't getting in." This appearance is
counterproductive. Nova Roma already has a hard enough time filling
the lower magistracies as it is. Its the case of a carrot and a
stick and this lex pretty much leaves just the stick.

Besides the image problem this Lex presents it does nothing to
change the mathematics of the problem. Praetors, Consuls, and
Censors, both present and former would still be allowed to vote in
the Senate even without the honor of being called a Senator. If
reminds me of the "compromise Constitutional amendment" here in
Massachusetts caused by the same gender marriage issue. Everything
but the "m-word." In this case its everything but the "s-word."
The end result is still the hypothetical 100 people governoring 200
people the only difference being is of that 100 a small percentage
will be called "Senator."

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

G. Popillius Laenas G. Equitio Cato salutem dicit.

First, thanks for the kind words.

I may be extra dense tonight (it has been along day), but I cannot
follow your objection here.

As I understand it, you say the ancients required attainment of
certain magistraces in order to qualify for the Senate. I do not
disagree.

The proposed lex requires the Censors to first consider those who
have obtained similar magistracies in NR.

Where is the conflict?

True, the lex does not remove the power of the Censors to add those
who have not obtained such offices, but that power exists now and I
am not inclined to limit it further than the practical aspects of
the lex already cited.

If I am being obtuse, trust me it is unintentional.

Vale bene.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

>
> G. Equitius Cato G. Popillius Laenas Consule quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salve Consul, et salvete omnes.
>
> I want to first state that I support wholeheartedly the effort you
> have put into a reasonable lex regarding the size of the Senate in
> comparison to the number of cives. It makes sense and I would vote
> for it in a New York minute.
>
> However, the laundry list of who "shall" be sublected first,

second,

> etc., is wholly unRoman and indeed goes against the very spirit of

the

> lex Ovinia of which mention is made. The lex Ovinia tribunicia (c.
> 318 B.C.) was a plebiscitum which gave the censors certain powers

in

> regulating the lists of the senators (ordo senatorius): the censors
> were completely in control of who could and who could not be added

to

> the rolls of the Senate; the lex Ovinia was meant to be a guide,
> emphasizing the importance of having held a magistracy before

becoming

> a senator.
>
> So I agree with Modius Athanasius on his point regarding

magistracies;

> in fact, Livy makes clear that magistracy is a prerequisite of
> membership in the Senate, in almost a throwaway sentence in the

midst

> of describing the disaster at Cannae:
>
> "Amongst the number were both the quaestors attached to the

consuls,

> L. Atilius and L. Furius Bibulcus, twenty-nine military tribunes,
> several ex-consuls, ex-praetors, and ex-aediles (amongst them are
> included Cn. Servilius Geminus and M. Minucius, who was Master of

the

> Horse the previous year and, some years before that, consul), and

in

> addition to these, eighty men who had either been senators or

FILLED

> THE OFFICES QUALIFYING THEM FOR ELECTION TO THE SENATE [my

emphasis]

> and who had volunteered for service with the legions." - Livy,

History

> of Rome 22.49
>
> At one point, the rolls of the Senate had fallen so low that one of
> the former censors was actually elected Dictator in order to fill

the

> Senate House:
>
> "There had been no revision of the roll of the senate since L.
> Aemilius and C. Flaminius were censors, though there had been such
> heavy losses amongst the senators during the last five years on the
> field of battle, as well as from the fatalities and accidents to

which

> all are liable. In compliance with the unanimous wish, the subject

was

> brought forward by the praetor, M. Aemilius, in the absence of the
> Dictator, who after the loss of Casilinum had rejoined the army.

Sp.

> Carvilius spoke at considerable length about the dearth of

senators,

> and also the very small number of citizens from whom senators

could be

> chosen....It was ultimately decided to nominate as Dictator a man

who

> had been censor before, and was the oldest man living who had held
> that office, in order that the roll of senators might be

revised." -

> Livy, History of Rome 23.22
>
> So we have two trains of thought here: one is that the censors are
> completely free to enroll senators; two is that they were required
> only to choose from among men who had held magistracies in order to
> fill any vacancies --- as the lex Ovinia says, "ex omni ordine

optimum

> quemque curiatim" --- the ordo mentioned in this lex is the ordo
> senatorius, i.e. men who were eligible for the senate because of

the

> office they had held.
>
> I would strongly suggest that the Consul divide the lex he has
> proposed into two parts; the first, dealing solely with the
> calculation of the size of the Senate, the second dealing with his
> proposed "order" of sublection. The first would be wholly

reasonable

> and makes perfect sense. The second would unfortunately not be in

the

> same category, as I feel it violates the letter and the spirit of

the

> ancients' intent.
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato

Salve G.Popillius Laenas -

With all due respect, the Lex as currently written states "they shall
sublect" - it is phrased in a way that is implied to be mandatory. If
this section were truly meant as Guidelines, it should be phrased
"should be considered for sublection".

This seems to remove the discretion of the Censors; it also depends
entirely on accumulated titles rather than actual contribution to Nova
Roma, rank rather than genuine merit.

If this Lex only limited the size of the Senate - which *does* need to
be limited - I would applaud this Lex and could support it
wholeheartedly; however, the section on sublection to fill Senate
vacancies is not written as mere guidelines: It appears to compel who
the Censors promote to the Senate. This, as written, is not a Lex that
I can support.

A lifetime Senate seat should be based on merit above all, not just
accumulated titles. The Censors, as guardians of the public morality,
must retain their right of discretion because they express the values
of the People who elected them.

Sorry, but as currently written this Lex *does* "substantially alter
the current law" by removing Censorial choice.

Vale
- S E M Troianus

On Mar 23, 2005, at 5:12 PM, gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:

>
>
> Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,
>
> The Senators and those others who attend its meetings (Aediles and
> Tribunes) have known about this proposed Lex Popillia Senatoria
> since early February.
>
> Other cives, however, may be concerned about a proposal that may be
> seen as revolutionary and far reaching. I do not see it as either,
> so I though I would offer a summary of what I intend this lex to
> accomplish.
>
> (1) First, and foremost, the lex is intended to limit the size of
> the Senate to some reasonable subset of our active citizens. What
> is "reasonable", and what is "active" is, and has been in the
> Senate, debatable. However, I have chosen measures which seem best
> to me after consideration of several alternatives.
>
> This main point is entirely my idea. My accensus Cordus is not to
> blame for any perceived problems with this core idea.
>
> My concern is that, without limits, the Senate would one day
> encompass the entire body of active cives and this seems
> unreasonable and undesirable. It would also be unhistorical.
>
> (2) The lex provides some guidelines that the Censors must consider
> in adding cives to the Senate.
>
> They must first select ex-dictators, consuls, censors and praetors.
> This is basically the way we do things now.
>
> The lex does make some distinction between ex-magistrates who are
> entitled to speak AND VOTE in the Senate who may not have been
> formally added as Senators. This is an effort to be more historical
> as there is evidence that this was the way it was done in
> antiquity. It does not diminish the "power" of such magistrates and
> ex-magistrates and they still speak and vote.
>
> (3) The Censors retain their Constitutional power to add and remove
> Senators. The proposed lex does not substantially alter the current
> law.
>
> To my mind that is it. The only truly new idea and change is the
> limit itself.
>
> Perhaps this will help the discussion.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Gaius Modius Athanasius S.P.D.

Discretion would prevent the censors from adlecting five individuals into
the senate, thus causing a problem in the first place. In the absence of
discretion, something needs to be done to curtail further examples of partisan
politics.

In a message dated 3/23/2005 8:18:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
hermeticagnosis@... writes:

A lifetime Senate seat should be based on merit above all, not just
accumulated titles. The Censors, as guardians of the public morality,
must retain their right of discretion because they express the values
of the People who elected them.

Sorry, but as currently written this Lex *does* "substantially alter
the current law" by removing Censorial choice.

Vale
- S E M Troianus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve interum Quinte Cassi.

>
> Salve,
>
> On two points we agree. Raising the number of Assidui citizens

and

> at least being elected Praetor as the minimum qualification to be

a

> Senator to be good things.

Laenas: Well, I think the proposal is a step toward this

>
> However intent and what something looks like can be miles apart.

In

> politics what something looks like can often be far more important
> then the intention. The intent to have a Senate that is of
> reasonable size and proportionate to the active population is not

a

> bad intent.
>
> However what this looks like is a case of "We've got ours, the

rest

> of you go pound sand because no matter how hard you bust your butt
> for Nova Roma you ain't getting in." T

Laenas: Wouldn't one just have to bust one's butt to become
Praetor? Something we said we agree upon.

his appearance is

> counterproductive. Nova Roma already has a hard enough time

filling

> the lower magistracies as it is. Its the case of a carrot and a
> stick and this lex pretty much leaves just the stick.

Laenas: I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean here. One
already has to "hoe a pretty tough row" to enter the Senate.

>
> Besides the image problem this Lex presents it does nothing to
> change the mathematics of the problem. Praetors, Consuls, and
> Censors, both present and former would still be allowed to vote in
> the Senate even without the honor of being called a Senator. If
> reminds me of the "compromise Constitutional amendment" here in
> Massachusetts caused by the same gender marriage issue.

Everything

> but the "m-word." In this case its everything but the "s-word."
> The end result is still the hypothetical 100 people governoring

200

> people the only difference being is of that 100 a small percentage
> will be called "Senator."

Laenas: I guess I do not agree that the title would be so much more
important than the right to attend and vote.

Let me ask you amice, do you see a better way to implement the good
intentions I have stated.

Vale bene,

Laenas

>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus

Salve Troianus.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, S E M Troianus
<hermeticagnosis@e...> wrote:

> Salve G.Popillius Laenas -
>
> With all due respect, the Lex as currently written states "they

shall

> sublect" - it is phrased in a way that is implied to be

mandatory. If

> this section were truly meant as Guidelines, it should be phrased
> "should be considered for sublection".

Laenas: Current law automatically adds those such elected to the
Senate. The proposed lex retains this practice as far as is
practical while instituting size limits.

>
> This seems to remove the discretion of the Censors; it also

depends

> entirely on accumulated titles rather than actual contribution to

Nova

> Roma, rank rather than genuine merit.

Laenas: As I mentioned above, the Censors have no such discretion
today to exclude those magistrates. And, remember,these are elected
positions, not just titles, which would imply some merit, unless one
has no confidence in our voters.

>
> If this Lex only limited the size of the Senate - which *does*

need to

> be limited - I would applaud this Lex and could support it
> wholeheartedly; however, the section on sublection to fill Senate
> vacancies is not written as mere guidelines: It appears to compel

who

> the Censors promote to the Senate. This, as written, is not a Lex

that

> I can support.

Laenas: Would you then exclude our highest elected magistrates from
participation in the Senate? That would be unhistorical, and not
very practical.

>
> A lifetime Senate seat should be based on merit above all, not

just

> accumulated titles. The Censors, as guardians of the public

morality,

> must retain their right of discretion because they express the

values

> of the People who elected them.
>
> Sorry, but as currently written this Lex *does* "substantially

alter

> the current law" by removing Censorial choice.

Laenas: Do not those who have attained Consul and Praetor reflect
the values of those that elected them? This lex only removes the
Censor's choice in that it limits the number of Senators they can
add, which you have said you agree with. How else would you achieve
it?

Vale,

Laenas

Thanks for the reply-I guess you're right about everything. I was just thinking it was something the younger people might like to get involved in. Martianus was one of the names listed on the application? I thought it was acceptable. Maybe not? Can I choose, or make up, a different one instead? Talk with you soon I hope. Thanks for being so understanding Maybe I should remove the post can I do that? I feel sort of stupid about it now!!



Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
Salvete Quirites, et salve Secunde Martiani,

bomborwhack wrote:

> Hi everyone, I just turned in my application for citizenship and am
> very excited!! Any ideas how long it may take?

I imagine you'll be getting a reply from the Rogators pretty soon. Keep
an eye out for that and work with them. I'm going to guess that they'll
want you to consider a nomen other than Martianus, since it's not a
proper nomen but rather an agnomen meaning "adopted into the Martii."
But I'm sure you'll get things worked out in short order.

> Also, I had another idea that I would like to pitch? Would any of
> you be interested in an online community website for Nova Romans?

How would this be different from our current community website at
novaroma.org?

> Seeing the success of sites such as Friendster and Myspace, I think
> it would be really cool to have something like that where we all
> know we already have one thing in common!!

I'd be inclined to follow the fine Roman tradition of moving in and
taking over. If people want to have such a thing why not just get
Friendster accounts? We already have one website which requires a lot
of work to maintain.

Vale, et valete,

-- Marinus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopilliuslaenas@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve interum Quinte Cassi.

<snipped>

> Laenas: I guess I do not agree that the title would be so much

more

> important than the right to attend and vote.
>
> Let me ask you amice, do you see a better way to implement the

good

> intentions I have stated.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Laenas

Salve,

I've snipped the rest since this gets right down the to nitty
gritty. The intent, that is to have a Senate that is proportional
to the actual numbers of active citizens. In your proposal the
problem of "100 people governing 200" is not dealt with. What is
the difference between 100 Senators and 28 Senators and 78 non-
senators getting to vote in the Senate? There is none except the
title. Think of it as a math problem.

X=Y=T
T = number of people who can vote in the Senate
Y = number of non-Senators who can vote
X = number of Senators

X=(Ax15%) A = Assidui
X is limited in its growth via the number of Assidui. It would take
1.5% growth in the number of Assidui between Census periods to = 1
additional Senator (assuming maximum has not already been
exceeded).

Y has no restraints on its growth. In theory this number can
increase by a maximum of 6 people a year (2 praetors, 2 consuls, and
2 censors assuming any Dictator if needed would already be a Senator
or have voting rights in the Senate) In 10 years at maximum growth
we're talking 60 people. In reality a more realistic set of numbers
would be 2 people a year, or 20 people in 10 years.

What then is the difference between having 48 Senators in ten years
time and 28 Senators (current number) + 20 non Senators with voting
rights? Whether one multiplies 6 times 8 or 8 times 6 both = 48.
You aren't limiting the real size of the Senate, you're just
limiting the number of titles.

Let's face it it's not about restraining real numbers to be
proportional to the number of active citizens, if it were the
mathematical reality would reflect that. It's really about handing
a reprimand to the Censors for adlecting 5 people that there is a
substantial opinion of not deserving of being in the Senate.

If you want to hand a reprimand and curtail future mass adlections
it can be done without slapping the face of anyone who might one day
become a praetor or higher but be denied the honor of the purple
bordered toga because people got their togas in a twist a few years
back over the actions of a pair of Censors. The logic in this Lex
is akin to executing 100 innocent people to make sure you execute
the one guilty person.

If you want to prevent future mass adlections just pass a lex that
states a person must be elected Praetor to be enrolled in the
Senate, must have been at least a Tribune, Quaestor, or Aedile in
order to run for Praetor, must be a Praetor before they can run for
Consul and Consul before they can run for Censor and place some age
limits on the offices. IE Minimum age for Quaestor 25, Praetor 27,
Consul 29, Censor 31. This limits the maximum number of new
Senators to two a year, not an unreasonable growth and prevents
future mass adlections.

People can vote for that above. What your asking is for a whole
bunch of people to line up and vote to have their face slapped in
order to reprimand two other people. I'd vote to reprimand and
curtail future mass adlections by implementing a real Cursus
Honorarium, but I'm not going to vote for having my face slapped
sometime in the future in order to "punish" someone else.


Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

G. Equitius Cato G. Popillio Laeno Consule quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve Consul et salvete omnes.

No, I don't think you're particularly dense; I think I may not have
expressed myself as clearly as I should have.

I follow up on S.E. Mercurius Troianus' point: the argument is not
that you have not made magistracies a singularly important step in
enrollment in the Senate --- you have, and I agree 100% with where
you're going with that. What I absolutely disagree with is the
"laundry list" I mentioned, which you have created within your
proposed lex.

No-one, historically or under our laws and Constitution, has the right
or authority to *tell* the censors that they "shall" enroll anyone,
magistrate or otherwise, in the Senate in a particular order of
preference.

The censors have the full authority to do so as a prerogative of their
office. The lex Ovinia made it a guiding principle that the pool of
citizens from whom the censors could freely choose to enroll in the
Senate was composed of those who had been elected to a magistracy; it
started at the quaestors and went up. Now, in the ancient Republic
there were, in fact, members of the Senate who had *not* held
magistracies; those who were not were called senatores pedarii and
were not permitted to speak or vote, functioning much like the modern
"backbencher" in the British Parliament. They were called pedarii
because they were allowed to walk back and forth in the Senate House
to show numerical support to whichever side they agreed with.


What might be more beneficial to the res publica as a whole is if in
one lex we did indeed cap the number of senators, and in a seperate
lex we then tighten (as I believe Cassius Calvus and Modius Athanasius
have argued) the eligibility of those running for a praetorship by
clarifying the cursus honorum; the censors are then absolutely free to
enroll new senators from the pool of qualified --- by virtue of having
held magistracies in proper order --- candidates.


I would simply make Section II read as follows:

"II. The censores shall see to it that vacancies in the senate shall
be filled. After they have declared the maximum number of senatores
(and not before) according to Article I, the censores shall sublect
citizens to fill any vacancies in the senate up to the maximum which
they have set, or as near to the maximum as they consider reasonable."

Cut out the laundry list.



It also goes against historical fact to allow anyone other than a
senator to speak in the Senate. Such dignified offices as the
Pontifex Maximus were categorized as non-voting and non-speaking
members, with the exception of various religious rituals. I would cut
out everything in Section IV except as follows:

"IV. Higher magistrates and ex-magistrates shall be entitled to attend
meetings of the Senate, but solely as observers."

They should neither speak nor vote, as they are not senators.


These are my suggestions. I do not mean any disrespect towards your
efforts in any way, but I do not think that your proposal *as it
stands* will benefit the res publica as a whole.

Vale et valete,

Cato

Salve Laenas -

On Mar 23, 2005, at 8:40 PM, gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:

> This lex only removes the
> Censor's choice in that it limits the number of Senators they can
> add, which you have said you agree with. How else would you achieve
> it?
>
By doing just that: Set a cap, based on a percentage of Citizens or as
you have done based on Assidui.
Just set a cap on the Senate's size.
Obviously there wouldn't be any "automatic" elevations unless there was
space available within the limit.
None of this pseudo-Senator bit, of being a Senator in everything but
name; you're either a Senator, or not - this is not capping the size of
the Senate, this creation of pseudo-Senators. (It also takes away from
the honour of the Senate, by creating a class that is equivalent in all
but name.)

If after that there are still vacancies, the "pool" of possible
candidates is already defined in existing law.
None of this 'You must elevate those in this tier first, then this one,
etc.', removing the discretion of the Censors. The Censors must retain
their prerogative.

If limiting the size of the Senate is the goal - a worthy goal, I agree
- then this Lex misses the mark. Too many other things are mucked
with, when the goal should be a straightforward cap of the Senate's
size.


Vale
- Troianus

Salvete omnibusque;

I respectfully resign my commission as scriba in the service of the
Censors. Initially I was set back by some minor confusion and
miscommunication, but recently I have not had the time to invest in
this office as I would have liked, and it has become apparent that I
will not in the immediate future. This is primarily because of my
responsibilities at university, but also due to other reasons that I
will not go into in this forum.

If my superiors or anyone else have any questions or concerns,
please e-mail me and I will get back to you as soon as possible, but
I have limited internet access at the moment.

Thank you all for your patience.

Vale bene,
L. Modius Kaelus

AVETE OMNES

Just to remind you that Prof. Andrew Lintott is currently taking
part in our project "Interview the expert" and that you can send me
your questions for him.
He will answer to your questions about the following subject:

"The Constitution of the Roman Republic"

Andrew Lintott is a Fellow of Worcester College, Oxford and has
recently retired from the position of Professor of Roman History in
that university. His books are Violence in Republican Rome,
Violence and Civil Strife in the Classical City, Imperium Romanum,
Judicial Reform and Land Reform in the Roman Republic, The
Constitution of the Roman Republic, and a breviarium, The Roman
Republic. He has also been joint editor of two volumes (IX and X)
of the new Cambridge Ancient History. He has had regular contact
with Italy since the 1950s and has been a Visiting Fellow at the
British School at Rome.

You can send me your questions at mcserapio AT yahoo DOT it

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Aedilis Plebis
Propraetor Italiae
Senator
Magister Magnus Academiae Italicae

M. Hortensia Maior L. Modio Kaelo Quiritibusque salutem dicit;
Salvete;
please just inform the Censor's office privately. The ML is
no longer the place to resign and create mass sympathy; quite the
opposite;-.
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP
caput Offficina Iuiis
et Investigatio CFQ


I

> will not go into in this forum.
>
> If my superiors or anyone else have any questions or concerns,
> please e-mail me and I will get back to you as soon as possible,

but

> .
>
> Vale bene,
> L. Modius Kaelus

Salvete

>please just inform the Censor's office privately. The ML is
>no longer the place to resign and create mass sympathy; quite the
>opposite;-.
>                    
> Marca Hortensia Maior TRP
> caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ

Considering that everyone knew that Kaelus was among the ones to address for
Censorial related matters, I think it's more than proper that he announces
publicly that he's not longer in that position, so that everyone is properly
informed.

I think the "mass sympathy" comment was totally superflous, gratuitious and
out of place and, lastly, that is not Maior's job, not as a tribuns, nor as
" caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ", nor as citizen to state what
is proper or no to be sent over the main list or what the list is the place
for, we already have the Praetors for that.

Valete

DCF

--

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum

AVETE OMNES

It seems novaroma.org cannot be displayed. Is it only me or is
anybody of you having the same problem?

OPTIME VALETE
M'C.Serapio

>AVETE OMNES

>It seems novaroma.org cannot be displayed. Is it only me or is
>anybody of you having the same problem?

>OPTIME VALETE
>M'C.Serapio

I think this is a problem due to Internet Explorer, which sometimes doesn't
visualize Google, Yahoo, Geocities-linked sites, etc. due to internal errors.
Other browsers, like Mozilla Firefox for example, work fine all the time. :-)

Bene vale,
P Con. Placidus

P.S. @ Perusianus: Sorry for not always performing my duties as a moderator
properly, these days. I'm very busy at work.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,

As I have mentioned, a draft of the Lex Popillia Senatoria was
presented to the Senate for discussion in February.

The discussion was active. There were many questions, comments, and
suggestions; most of which were incorporated into the final version
presented for Contio. Much work was done answering the questions
and revising the draft; most of this work by my accensus A.
Apollonius Cordus.

There was no objection or comment from the Tribunes on the
proposal. (By Nova Roma tradition and procedure, Tribunes attend
and witness meetings of the senate, but may only speak with
permission of the presiding Consul. No Tribune asked to speak).

Presenting a proposed lex to the Senate is not required by our
laws. I did so, because it was ancient custom, and because, as an
advisory body to the Consuls, I wanted the input of that body.

As a result of the presentation in February, I felt I had good
reason to believe the Senate supported the lex and that the Tribunes
found no fatal flaws.

Apparently, I was wrong in this belief as no Senator has stepped
forward in support of the proposal and the version that was debated
in the Senate was vetoed.

Also, the ideas presented recently on the Main List by Quintus
Cassius Calvus have great merit in my mind, and I wish to consider
them further. My sincere thanks to Calvus.

Therefore, I am withdrawing the Lex Popillia Senatoria at least for
the present time.

My thanks to accensus Cordus for his work on the measure. No blame
for any faults in the proposal or the manner in which it was
presented should reflect on him.

Thank you for saying this. I think it very wise of Kaelus to place his
education above Nova Roma, especially since he is a classics major.

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 3/24/2005 7:07:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dom.con.fus@... writes:

Considering that everyone knew that Kaelus was among the ones to address for
Censorial related matters, I think it's more than proper that he announces
publicly that he's not longer in that position, so that everyone is properly
informed.

I think the "mass sympathy" comment was totally superflous, gratuitious and
out of place and, lastly, that is not Maior's job, not as a tribuns, nor as
" caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ", nor as citizen to state what
is proper or no to be sent over the main list or what the list is the place
for, we already have the Praetors for that.

Valete

DCF





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tribunus et Amice!

I have contacted Lucius Modius privately.

>Salvete
>
>>please just inform the Censor's office privately. The ML is
>>no longer the place to resign and create mass sympathy; quite the
>>opposite;-.
>>
>> Marca Hortensia Maior TRP
>> caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ
>
>Considering that everyone knew that Kaelus was among the ones to address for
>Censorial related matters, I think it's more than proper that he announces
>publicly that he's not longer in that position, so that everyone is properly
>informed.
>
>I think the "mass sympathy" comment was totally superflous, gratuitious and
>out of place and, lastly, that is not Maior's job, not as a tribuns, nor as
>" caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ", nor as citizen to state what
>is proper or no to be sent over the main list or what the list is the place
>for, we already have the Praetors for that.
>
>Valete
>
>DCF

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of Roman Times Quartely
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

M.Hortensia Maior Quiritibus spd;

it the Censor's wish that those who resign from his cohors write to
him personally and not on the ML, for the very reason that our kind
Censor Quintilianus wishes to support, sympathize and help those who
feel too pressed by circumstance, before it is official.

A tribune's duty is to the plebs. Both Modi are plebs, let them
realize that the people are no longer sympathetic to public
resignations, to do so could affect their public careers in NR.
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP
caput Officina
Iuriis et Investigatio CFQ

>
> Thank you for saying this. I think it very wise of Kaelus to

place his

> education above Nova Roma, especially since he is a classics major.
>
> Valete;
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius
>
> In a message dated 3/24/2005 7:07:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> dom.con.fus@e... writes:
>
> Considering that everyone knew that Kaelus was among the ones to

address for

> Censorial related matters, I think it's more than proper that he

announces

> publicly that he's not longer in that position, so that everyone

is properly

> informed.
>
> I think the "mass sympathy" comment was totally superflous,

gratuitious and

> out of place and, lastly, that is not Maior's job, not as a

tribuns, nor as

> " caput Offficina Iuiis et Investigatio CFQ", nor as citizen to

state what

> is proper or no to be sent over the main list or what the list is

the place

> for, we already have the Praetors for that.
>
> Valete
>
> DCF
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Serapio,

I just checked and it's resolving just fine for me.

-- Marinus

Manius Constantinus Serapio wrote:

>
> AVETE OMNES
>
> It seems novaroma.org cannot be displayed. Is it only me or is
> anybody of you having the same problem?
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> M'C.Serapio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

AVETE OMNES

I ask the Magister Aranearius to please publish this edict in the
Tabularium. Thank you.

EDICTVM AEDILIS PLEBIS II DE CERTAMINE PETRONIANO
Ex Officio Aed Pleb M' C. Serapionis

Last February the Senate approved the following text:

"The Senate hereby resolves and gives permission to Plebian Aedile
Manius Constantinus Serapio to organize an international literary
contest in Nova Roma's name to include both Nova Roma cives and non-
cives."


I- I hereby announce the Certamen Petronianum, an international
literary competition organized in Nova Roma's name and dedicated to
Petronius Arbiter, the well known author of Satyricon.


II- Competition Rules:

a- The Certamen Petronianum is open to all writers, bot cives and
non-cives, without any age or nationality restrictions.

b- Entries for the Certamen Petronianum 2005 must be tales set in
ancient Rome, during the Republic.

c- Entries must be written in English, and have a maximum length of
3000 words.

d- The closing date for entries is 30th June 2005.

e- Entrants may submit only one tale, and the entry must be
accompanied by a completed entry form.

f- Entries must be submitted in Word, RTF or plain text file. The
tale shall contain no pictures.

g- Entries will be judged anonymously.

h- Each tale must be the original work of the author, and must not
have been previously published or successfully entered in to other
contests.

i- The winner will be notified between 4th and 17th November 2005,
during the Ludi Plebei.

l- The judges' decision is final, and no correspondence will be
entered into.

m- Nova Roma reserves the right to publish or broadcast the five
best tales, in any medium or media, any number of times and at any
stage in the future. By submitting an entry to the contest,
entrants agree to grant such rights.

n- Entries should be sent to: certamen@... (certamen
AT novaromaitalia DOT org)


III- The Judges:

a- Entries will be read by a panel of preliminary judges who will
select the five best works.

b- The five best works will be judged by two final judges, one being
a professional novelist and one being an expert in Roman history.

c- The final judges of the first edition of the Certamen Petronianum
are Dr. Colleen McCullough and Prof. Dr. Peter Wiseman.


IV- Award:

a- The winning tale will be published on the website of Nova Roma
and on the following web magazines: "Aquila", "Roman Times
Quarterly", "Inter Alia" and "Pomerivm" (Italian translation).

b- The winner will receive:
1- a certificate signed by the final judges, Dr. McCullough and
Prof. Dr. Wiseman

2- the full Roman series to date by Colleen McCullough (The First
Man in Rome, The Grass Crown, Fortune's Favourites, Caesar's Women,
Caesar & The October Horse), each book being autographed by the
author.

3- The myths of Rome, by Dr. Peter Wiseman, autographed by the
author.


V- The notice of competition and the entry form are published on the
website of the Certamen Petronianum:
http://www.novaroma.org/certamen/index.htm

VI- This edict becomes effective immediately.

Given on 25th March 2756 aVc
Fr. Apulo Caesare et C. Popillio Laenate Cos

AVE CENSOR MARINE

> I just checked and it's resolving just fine for me.

Thank you, now it works with me too. :-)

OPTIME VALE
M'C.Serapio

Salvete Quirites, et salve Aedile Serapio!

Manius Constantinus Serapio wrote:

> c- The final judges of the first edition of the Certamen Petronianum
> are Dr. Colleen McCullough and Prof. Dr. Peter Wiseman.

Woah! Serapio, that is one heck of a coup you've managed!
Congratulations on obtaining such distinguished judges for this contest.
I'm going to have to take the time to write a story for it.

Quirites, I ask all of you who have any writing talent at all to
consider writing an entry for this contest. And please join me in
thanking Serapio for his outstanding effort.

Valete,

-- Marinus

EDICTVM AEDILIS PLEBIS I DE LVDIS CERIALIBVS ATQVE PLEBEIS
Ex Officio Aed Pleb M' C. Serapionis

According to the Lex Arminia de Officiis Aedilium Plebis, the
Aediles Plebis have to organize at least two big Ludi, the Ludi
Ceriales and the Ludi Plebei.

I. The celebration of the Ludi Ceriales will take place from April
12th to 19th.

II. The celebration of the Ludi Plebei will take place from November
4th to 17th.

Given on 25th March 2756 aVc
Fr. Apulo Caesare et C. Popillio Laenate Cos

P. Memmius Albucius Consuli Laenati s.d.

S.V.G.E.R.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopilliuslaenas@y...> wrote:

(..)

> Therefore, I am withdrawing the Lex Popillia Senatoria at least
> for the present time.

(..)


Let me honour your decision, which gives us time to discuss all
together about this important matter, specially for the future of
Nova Roma, the relations between the People and its institutions,
and the image that our Res publica gives beyond its boundaries.

The wisdom of your action is equal to the utility of the matter that
you have introduced through your draft.

The time now given will allow us all to take into account every wise
and appropriate reflection, such as Honourable Calvus, Cato or
Troianus have produced recently.

Vale, Consul.

P. Memmius Albucius
Tribunus Plebis

Salve Quirites!!

Good Luck with the contest and congratulations to the good ideas and
especially to the judges!

.....................................
........................................

>AVETE OMNES
>
>I ask the Magister Aranearius to please publish this edict in the
>Tabularium. Thank you.
>
>EDICTVM AEDILIS PLEBIS II DE CERTAMINE PETRONIANO
>Ex Officio Aed Pleb M' C. Serapionis
>
>Last February the Senate approved the following text:
>
>"The Senate hereby resolves and gives permission to Plebian Aedile
>Manius Constantinus Serapio to organize an international literary
>contest in Nova Roma's name to include both Nova Roma cives and non-
>cives."
>
>
>I- I hereby announce the Certamen Petronianum, an international
>literary competition organized in Nova Roma's name and dedicated to
>Petronius Arbiter, the well known author of Satyricon.

............
...............

>c- The final judges of the first edition of the Certamen Petronianum
>are Dr. Colleen McCullough and Prof. Dr. Peter Wiseman.
>
>
>IV- Award:
>
>a- The winning tale will be published on the website of Nova Roma
>and on the following web magazines: "Aquila", "Roman Times
>Quarterly", "Inter Alia" and "Pomerivm" (Italian translation).
>
>b- The winner will receive:
>1- a certificate signed by the final judges, Dr. McCullough and
>Prof. Dr. Wiseman
>
>2- the full Roman series to date by Colleen McCullough (The First
>Man in Rome, The Grass Crown, Fortune's Favourites, Caesar's Women,
>Caesar & The October Horse), each book being autographed by the
>author.
>
>3- The myths of Rome, by Dr. Peter Wiseman, autographed by the
>author.

.........................
..............



--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Proconsul Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of Roman Times Quartely
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve,

This is very interesting. I do have a question regarding the text to be submitted. Should it be submitted in English only or it could be written in any language. I am asking because English is not my first language (although I do not have any problem writing in English). Some very talented people could be uncomfortable writing in English and could feel penalized by this fact.

I thank you for this initiative.

Gaius Velius Tutor

Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...> wrote:

AVETE OMNES

I ask the Magister Aranearius to please publish this edict in the
Tabularium. Thank you.

EDICTVM AEDILIS PLEBIS II DE CERTAMINE PETRONIANO
Ex Officio Aed Pleb M' C. Serapionis

Last February the Senate approved the following text:

"The Senate hereby resolves and gives permission to Plebian Aedile
Manius Constantinus Serapio to organize an international literary
contest in Nova Roma's name to include both Nova Roma cives and non-
cives."


I- I hereby announce the Certamen Petronianum, an international
literary competition organized in Nova Roma's name and dedicated to
Petronius Arbiter, the well known author of Satyricon.


II- Competition Rules:

a- The Certamen Petronianum is open to all writers, bot cives and
non-cives, without any age or nationality restrictions.

b- Entries for the Certamen Petronianum 2005 must be tales set in
ancient Rome, during the Republic.

c- Entries must be written in English, and have a maximum length of
3000 words.

d- The closing date for entries is 30th June 2005.

e- Entrants may submit only one tale, and the entry must be
accompanied by a completed entry form.

f- Entries must be submitted in Word, RTF or plain text file. The
tale shall contain no pictures.

g- Entries will be judged anonymously.

h- Each tale must be the original work of the author, and must not
have been previously published or successfully entered in to other
contests.

i- The winner will be notified between 4th and 17th November 2005,
during the Ludi Plebei.

l- The judges' decision is final, and no correspondence will be
entered into.

m- Nova Roma reserves the right to publish or broadcast the five
best tales, in any medium or media, any number of times and at any
stage in the future. By submitting an entry to the contest,
entrants agree to grant such rights.

n- Entries should be sent to: certamen@... (certamen
AT novaromaitalia DOT org)


III- The Judges:

a- Entries will be read by a panel of preliminary judges who will
select the five best works.

b- The five best works will be judged by two final judges, one being
a professional novelist and one being an expert in Roman history.

c- The final judges of the first edition of the Certamen Petronianum
are Dr. Colleen McCullough and Prof. Dr. Peter Wiseman.


IV- Award:

a- The winning tale will be published on the website of Nova Roma
and on the following web magazines: "Aquila", "Roman Times
Quarterly", "Inter Alia" and "Pomerivm" (Italian translation).

b- The winner will receive:
1- a certificate signed by the final judges, Dr. McCullough and
Prof. Dr. Wiseman

2- the full Roman series to date by Colleen McCullough (The First
Man in Rome, The Grass Crown, Fortune's Favourites, Caesar's Women,
Caesar & The October Horse), each book being autographed by the
author.

3- The myths of Rome, by Dr. Peter Wiseman, autographed by the
author.


V- The notice of competition and the entry form are published on the
website of the Certamen Petronianum:
http://www.novaroma.org/certamen/index.htm

VI- This edict becomes effective immediately.

Given on 25th March 2756 aVc
Fr. Apulo Caesare et C. Popillio Laenate Cos





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am much more concerned with Kaelus finishing his education that furthering
a "career" in Nova Roma.

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 3/24/2005 10:46:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:

A tribune's duty is to the plebs. Both Modi are plebs, let them
realize that the people are no longer sympathetic to public
resignations, to do so could affect their public careers in NR.
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

" I do have a question regarding the text to be submitted. Should it
be submitted in English only or it could be written in any language. "

Yes, you can submit in any language, if you don´t care the message
won´t be understand by many. Alas, if I can suggest, I´d love see
messages completely on latin here... :)

Numa Roma Antiga tão cosmopólita que reuniu na cidade o que antes era
mundo, como podemos nos queixar de que o Fórum Romano tornou-se a
nova torre de Babel das mil línguas?

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus PR

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Simon Larente <slarente@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> This is very interesting. I do have a question regarding the text
to be submitted. Should it be submitted in English only or it could
be written in any language. I am asking because English is not my
first language (although I do not have any problem writing in
English). Some very talented people could be uncomfortable writing in
English and could feel penalized by this fact.
>
> I thank you for this initiative.
>
> Gaius Velius Tutor

P. Memmius Albucius Praetori Fausto s.d.

S.V.G.E.R.


--- "Lucius Arminius Faustus" wrote:

(...)

> Numa Roma Antiga tão cosmopólita que reuniu na cidade o que antes
>era mundo, como podemos nos queixar de que o Fórum Romano tornou-se
>a nova torre de Babel das mil línguas?

(..)

Because, dear Praetor, it is not here a matter of organization of
our novaroman tower - what we have set in our lex de linguis
publicis - but a question of equality between cives.

Bom dia e ... vale.

Tribune P. Memmius Albucius

Salve Illustrus Aedile Serapio,

as said in the past Senatus Consultum, very congratulations for your
wonderful initiative. It's a wonderful opportunity to meet the most
popular experts of Ancient Rome and to give credit to our Res
Publica. I'm sure our citizens will be enthusiatic.

We need this kind of event, they promote our organization to a large
public and to the academical world improving our importance and
raising new citizens: Nova Roma as the most exciting experience
about Roma Antiqua!
I would support anyone emulate our Illustrus Senator Serapio
organizing similar projects.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

Please ignore my last message. I really need to learn how to read! :)

Sorry about that!

Simon Larente <slarente@...> wrote:

Salve,

This is very interesting. I do have a question regarding the text to be submitted. Should it be submitted in English only or it could be written in any language. I am asking because English is not my first language (although I do not have any problem writing in English). Some very talented people could be uncomfortable writing in English and could feel penalized by this fact.

I thank you for this initiative.

Gaius Velius Tutor

Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...> wrote:

AVETE OMNES

I ask the Magister Aranearius to please publish this edict in the
Tabularium. Thank you.

EDICTVM AEDILIS PLEBIS II DE CERTAMINE PETRONIANO
Ex Officio Aed Pleb M' C. Serapionis

Last February the Senate approved the following text:

"The Senate hereby resolves and gives permission to Plebian Aedile
Manius Constantinus Serapio to organize an international literary
contest in Nova Roma's name to include both Nova Roma cives and non-
cives."


I- I hereby announce the Certamen Petronianum, an international
literary competition organized in Nova Roma's name and dedicated to
Petronius Arbiter, the well known author of Satyricon.


II- Competition Rules:

a- The Certamen Petronianum is open to all writers, bot cives and
non-cives, without any age or nationality restrictions.

b- Entries for the Certamen Petronianum 2005 must be tales set in
ancient Rome, during the Republic.

c- Entries must be written in English, and have a maximum length of
3000 words.

d- The closing date for entries is 30th June 2005.

e- Entrants may submit only one tale, and the entry must be
accompanied by a completed entry form.

f- Entries must be submitted in Word, RTF or plain text file. The
tale shall contain no pictures.

g- Entries will be judged anonymously.

h- Each tale must be the original work of the author, and must not
have been previously published or successfully entered in to other
contests.

i- The winner will be notified between 4th and 17th November 2005,
during the Ludi Plebei.

l- The judges' decision is final, and no correspondence will be
entered into.

m- Nova Roma reserves the right to publish or broadcast the five
best tales, in any medium or media, any number of times and at any
stage in the future. By submitting an entry to the contest,
entrants agree to grant such rights.

n- Entries should be sent to: certamen@... (certamen
AT novaromaitalia DOT org)


III- The Judges:

a- Entries will be read by a panel of preliminary judges who will
select the five best works.

b- The five best works will be judged by two final judges, one being
a professional novelist and one being an expert in Roman history.

c- The final judges of the first edition of the Certamen Petronianum
are Dr. Colleen McCullough and Prof. Dr. Peter Wiseman.


IV- Award:

a- The winning tale will be published on the website of Nova Roma
and on the following web magazines: "Aquila", "Roman Times
Quarterly", "Inter Alia" and "Pomerivm" (Italian translation).

b- The winner will receive:
1- a certificate signed by the final judges, Dr. McCullough and
Prof. Dr. Wiseman

2- the full Roman series to date by Colleen McCullough (The First
Man in Rome, The Grass Crown, Fortune's Favourites, Caesar's Women,
Caesar & The October Horse), each book being autographed by the
author.

3- The myths of Rome, by Dr. Peter Wiseman, autographed by the
author.


V- The notice of competition and the entry form are published on the
website of the Certamen Petronianum:
http://www.novaroma.org/certamen/index.htm

VI- This edict becomes effective immediately.

Given on 25th March 2756 aVc
Fr. Apulo Caesare et C. Popillio Laenate Cos





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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

But, dear tribune, Lex de Linguis Publicis rules only official legal
texts, not the forum, in which the Imperium of the magistrate rules.
So, the objectives here are comunication, if some person agree to use
a way not universal of comunication... it is personal freedom. Our
mission here is not allow personal freedom can be used to hurt the
others...

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus PR


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius"
<albucius_aoe@h...> wrote:

>
> P. Memmius Albucius Praetori Fausto s.d.
>
> S.V.G.E.R.
>
>
> --- "Lucius Arminius Faustus" wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> > Numa Roma Antiga tão cosmopólita que reuniu na cidade o que antes
> >era mundo, como podemos nos queixar de que o Fórum Romano tornou-

se

> >a nova torre de Babel das mil línguas?
>
> (..)
>
> Because, dear Praetor, it is not here a matter of organization of
> our novaroman tower - what we have set in our lex de linguis
> publicis - but a question of equality between cives.
>
> Bom dia e ... vale.
>
> Tribune P. Memmius Albucius

P. Memmius Albucius Praetori s.d.

S.V.B.E.E.V.

--- "Lucius Arminius Faustus" wrote:

>(..) Lex de Linguis Publicis rules only official legal
> texts,

If I may, I would say "not exactly", dear Praetor : this lex states
that "the official *ceremonial language* of Nova Roma. As such, it
shall be used in rites (..)" (§ II) and that "English is hereby
adopted as the *business language* of Nova Roma's *central
government*. As such, it shall be used in official communications
from and day-to-day business (..)"(§ III). The sole and secondary
part of this law where the expression "text" is used is about
differences between interpretations (§ V).

> not the forum, in which the Imperium of the magistrate
> rules.

I would have said "ruled by Lex Octavia de sermone". Besides - but
it was not the matter of my message - it is interesting to note that
leges Octavia and de Linguis publicis are not necessary incompatible.

> So, the objectives here are comunication, if some person agree to
>use a way not universal of comunication... it is personal freedom.
>Our mission here is not allow personal freedom can be used to hurt
>the others...

(..)

Naturally ! I think that I have been misunderstood : I have fully
understood your plea for the wealth that is for us our "mil linguas"
(1.000 languages). The lines beneath were more precisely an answer
to your post following itself Gaius Velius Tutor's sensible
intervention (message 34331).

Vale,

P. Memmius Albucius

> <albucius_aoe@h...> wrote:

(..) > > --- "Lucius Arminius Faustus" wrote:

> > (...)

> > > Numa Roma Antiga tão cosmopólita que reuniu na cidade o que

antes

> > >era mundo, como podemos nos queixar de que o Fórum Romano

tornou-

> se
> > >a nova torre de Babel das mil línguas?
> >
> > (..)
> >
> > Because, dear Praetor, it is not here a matter of organization

of

> > our novaroman tower - what we have set in our lex de linguis
> > publicis - but a question of equality between cives.
> >
> > Bom dia e ... vale.
> >
> > Tribune P. Memmius Albucius

Salve Consul G. Popillius Laenas

I would like to thank you for taking a statesman like approach to the suggestions of others on
how to make the LEX POPILLIA SENATORIA better.

I would add my two cents for your consideration during the rewrite

These grounds "conduct seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate" are nowhere defined.

If A Senator is going to be removed there should at least be some definition of what constitutes
"conduct seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate"

Fairness would seem to require a definition.

c. In adding new senators, they may pass
over any citizen qualified under II.b, c, e, or e on
grounds of conduct which would be seriously harmful to
the dignity of the senate.

Again no definition


In all other parts of this lex the Censors need to be in agreement to remove someone from the Senate why not also for
putting someone in the Senate?

What if one Censor wants citizen A placed in the Senate but the other Censors says no???

e. Any senator removed in this way and any
citizen passed over for addition to the senate in this
way shall no longer be entitled to attend, speak at,
or vote at meetings of the senate.


This could be trouble with this because this COULD be used to keep some or all of the Tribunes out of the Senate for whatever reason.
Also what if the Senator that is removed is also entitled to "attend" ( but not vote) the Senate in another capacity?
Its very good that this section was removed in the rewrite

V. The leges Vedia senatorial, Arminia senatorial, and Octavia de senatoribus are repealed.

Under these three current laws the citizens of Nova Romans have SOME influence in the selection of SOME members of the Nova Roma Senate by electing people to the offices of consul, censor, or praetor .

This limited influence is removed completely in the new Lex.

In ancient Rome election as Quaestor gave you a seat in the backbenches of the Senate or at least allowed the Censors to consider you for select to it.

Why are we doing away with this ancient tradition?

... "Any individual elected to the office of consul, censor, or praetor shall automatically be included in the album Senatorum (assuming that the individual was not already a member of the Senate)...

Under the LEX OCTAVIA DE SENATORIBUS membership in the Senate is for life but under the proposed lex it lasts until one is dismissed by the Censors.

I. Membership in the Senate of Nova Roma shall be for life, so long as a Senator maintains a minimum level of activity, as defined herein.
II. Level of Activity Required.
A. A Senator is required to cast votes in at least one third of the sessions of the Senate during any calendar year. Should he or she fail to do so, he or she may be removed at the option of the Censores.
B. Voting by proxy shall be considered acceptable for satisfying these requirements, if and only if the right of proxy is granted during the discussion period of the session for which proxy is granted.

III. Removal of a Senator.

A. The Censores are empowered to use their judgment when considering the removal of a Senator who has failed to maintain the minimum level of activity, and to either retain or remove that Senator at their option. The Censores should consider whether a valid excuse for failing to remain active has been offered.
B. The Senator to be removed has sixty days to appeal his or her removal to any magistrate capable of convening the Senate. A 2/3rds super-majority of the Senate, excluding the Censores, is required to override the Censores and halt the removal.
C. An ex-Senator who has been removed may be later restored to the Senate by the Censores.
IV. Exemptions.

A. Censores, Consuls, and Praetors are exempt during their year in office, regardless of their participation level the previous year. Any Senator appointed less than six months before the end of the preceding year is exempt.

B. In recognition of their service to the Republic, any Senator who has completed a full term as Consul or Censor may be removed from the Senate if and only if he or she fails the test described in Section II for four consecutive years.

C. Any Senator who has served in the Senate for ten years is forever after exempt from removal for reason of inactivity.

Under current law a Senator can be remove for the above reasons and they can appeal. There is an EXPRESSED change that would not allow
ANY appeal of the Censors actions. Why? If a Senator of Nova Roma can not appeal his/her removal from the Senate and removal on ground that are nowhere defined, where would an ordinary Roman find justice?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

This sentence "Its very good that this section was removed in the rewrite"

should have been remove in MY rewrite.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Popillius Laenas Ti. Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:

> Salve Consul G. Popillius Laenas
>
> I would like to thank you for taking a statesman like approach to

the suggestions of others on

> how to make the LEX POPILLIA SENATORIA better.

Laenas: Thank you, amice.

>
> I would add my two cents for your consideration during the

rewrite

Laenas: I have no current plans to re-write or re-sumbmit the lex,
but I will try and adress you questions.

>
> These grounds "conduct seriously harmful to the dignity of the

senate" are nowhere defined.

>
> If A Senator is going to be removed there should at least be some

definition of what constitutes

> "conduct seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate"
>
> Fairness would seem to require a definition.

Laenas: The Constitution already allows the Censors to remove
Senators and the only law we have defining their powers has to do
with a Senator's inactivity. In addition, this power of the censors
is historical.

This point was raised during the drafting and review in the Senate
and I decided such a definition was outide the scop of what we were
trying to accomplish.

> c. In adding new senators, they may pass
> over any citizen qualified under II.b, c, e, or e on
> grounds of conduct which would be seriously harmful to
> the dignity of the senate.
>
> Again no definition

Laenas: Same reason and logic

>
>
> In all other parts of this lex the Censors need to be in agreement

to remove someone from the Senate why not also for

> putting someone in the Senate?
>
> What if one Censor wants citizen A placed in the Senate but the

other Censors says no???

Laenas: The reason for this is historical evidence. According to
the sources, this is the way it was done in antiquity.

>
> e. Any senator removed in this way and any
> citizen passed over for addition to the senate in this
> way shall no longer be entitled to attend, speak at,
> or vote at meetings of the senate.
>
>
> This could be trouble with this because this COULD be used to keep

some or all of the Tribunes out of the Senate for whatever reason.

> Also what if the Senator that is removed is also entitled

to "attend" ( but not vote) the Senate in another capacity?

> Its very good that this section was removed in the rewrite

Laenas: I suppose it could, although from a practical standpoint
any cive so removed would be unlikely to be elected to any future
office. If the lex ever were to be re-introduced "attend" could be
stricken from the aboue, or a phrase "unless Constitutionally
mandated" or some such added.

>
> V. The leges Vedia senatorial, Arminia senatorial, and Octavia de

senatoribus are repealed.

>
> Under these three current laws the citizens of Nova Romans have

SOME influence in the selection of SOME members of the Nova Roma
Senate by electing people to the offices of consul, censor, or
praetor .

>
> This limited influence is removed completely in the new Lex.

Laenas: No I cannot agree that it would have. The practical effect
of the lex would have been that a cive who had not attained the rank
of Praetor would have a slim chance of entering the Senate. The lex
would have, IMO, give slightly more input to the people through the
election process.

>

> In ancient Rome election as Quaestor gave you a seat in the

backbenches of the Senate or at least allowed the Censors to
consider you for select to it.

>
> Why are we doing away with this ancient tradition?

Laenas: This was a Sullan reform and was not true for the majority
ot the Republic. Plus, the idea of the lex was to limit the size of
the Senate, not create additional automatic entrys ;-).

>
> ... "Any individual elected to the office of consul, censor,

or praetor shall automatically be included in the album Senatorum
(assuming that the individual was not already a member of the
Senate)...

Laenas: As I mentioned above, the practical impact of the lex would
not have changed any of the above.

>
> Under the LEX OCTAVIA DE SENATORIBUS membership in the Senate is

for life but under the proposed lex it lasts until one is dismissed
by the Censors.

>
> I. Membership in the Senate of Nova Roma shall be for life, so

long as a Senator maintains a minimum level of activity, as defined
herein.

> II. Level of Activity Required.
> A. A Senator is required to cast votes in at least one third of

the sessions of the Senate during any calendar year. Should he or
she fail to do so, he or she may be removed at the option of the
Censores.

> B. Voting by proxy shall be considered acceptable for satisfying

these requirements, if and only if the right of proxy is granted
during the discussion period of the session for which proxy is
granted.

>
> III. Removal of a Senator.
>
> A. The Censores are empowered to use their judgment when

considering the removal of a Senator who has failed to maintain the
minimum level of activity, and to either retain or remove that
Senator at their option. The Censores should consider whether a
valid excuse for failing to remain active has been offered.

> B. The Senator to be removed has sixty days to appeal his or her

removal to any magistrate capable of convening the Senate. A 2/3rds
super-majority of the Senate, excluding the Censores, is required to
override the Censores and halt the removal.

> C. An ex-Senator who has been removed may be later restored to the

Senate by the Censores.

> IV. Exemptions.
>
> A. Censores, Consuls, and Praetors are exempt during their year in

office, regardless of their participation level the previous year.
Any Senator appointed less than six months before the end of the
preceding year is exempt.

>
> B. In recognition of their service to the Republic, any Senator

who has completed a full term as Consul or Censor may be removed
from the Senate if and only if he or she fails the test described in
Section II for four consecutive years.

>
> C. Any Senator who has served in the Senate for ten years is

forever after exempt from removal for reason of inactivity.

>
> Under current law a Senator can be remove for the above reasons

and they can appeal. There is an EXPRESSED change that would not
allow

> ANY appeal of the Censors actions. Why? If a Senator of Nova Roma

can not appeal his/her removal from the Senate and removal on ground
that are nowhere defined, where would an ordinary Roman find justice?

Laenas: See my comments above, that portion of the lex was trying
to bring NR practice in line with the ancients, but I do understand
your concerns.

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks again for the kind words.

Vale,

Laenas

Salve,

Everything appears to be working fine now. I was working on some
things and the site was running real slow about 9 pm my time (about
2am yours). I had to stop for the night because it was just too
frustrating waiting for the screen to update. It most likely was
network congestion at a major routing center.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:

>
> AVETE OMNES
>
> It seems novaroma.org cannot be displayed. Is it only me or is
> anybody of you having the same problem?
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> M'C.Serapio

I highly recommend everyone check out the game "Shadow of Rome" by
Capcom. It features excellent recreations of ancient Rome! It's
clips and screenshots can be seen here:

http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/feature/6550

Enjoy!

CLARVS

EDICTUM AEDILICIUM IULIANUM SULLANUM V DE LUDIS MEGALENSIBUS
ANNO 2758 a.U.c.

Given on ante diem VIII Kalendas Aprilis in the year of the
consulship of Fr. Apulus Caesar and C. Popillius Laenas

I. According to our official calendar, I Lucius Iulius Sulla, Senior
Aedilis Curulis, present here Ludi Megalenses, that will be
celebrated in Rome from April 4th to April 10th.

II. This celebration will be held in honour of our great mother,
Magna Mater, and will be organized by me and my Cohors.

III. Calendar of the official events:

April 4th : Opening of Ludi Megalenses; Religious Celebrations in
honour to Magna Mater; Ludi Scaenici; Certamen Historicum 1;
April 5th: Venationes; Munera Gladiatoria quarters; Certamen
Historicum 2;
April 6th: Ludi Circenses quarters; Munera Gladiatoria semifinals;
Certamen Historicum 3;
April 7th: Megalenses Cultural Award; Certamen Historicum 4;
April 8th: Munera Gladiatoria final; Ludi Circenses semifinals;
Certamen Historicum 5;
April 9th: Rhetorical Poetry Contest; Certamen Historicum 6;
April 10th: Ludi Circenses final; Certamen Historicum 7; Magna Mater
monthly Bulletin; Closing of Ludi Megalenses.

IV. All the citizens will find in our website the extended and
uptodated general plan of the Ludi, all the rules and the
informations that are needed to participate to these celebrations
and to play at any of the games.
Our website has been developed by Iulius Sabinus and Iulius Probus:

www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro

V. During the next days the members of my Cohors and me will inform
Cives Novaromani about all the informations needed to play.

VI. This Edictum takes force immediately.

Salve!
I have read all the information on the case of Saturnias with
interest as a study in the ramifications of legal macinations. I have
a question that has not been answered by anyone.

I am a citizen of Nova Roma and take my citizenship very seriously.
Because of this I have voted in the recent election. I noticed that
unlike it is in RL politics the voters are not shown a record of the
candidate for Magistrate office. This is not fair to the electorate
in that such things as resignation and reassumption of an office is
not given thus a voter may be voting for someone who for any reason
resigned from his office and then changed his mind.

In my opinion the only solution for this lack of information is to
remove the nuntidina from the Lex in regards to return to office with
no penalty and the calling for a new election.

This in MHO will assure the electorate that the candidate they are
voting for did not resign for anything but emergency reasons. Thus
they will not be voting for someone who apparently does not take
their office seriously.

If any of the above has not been clear or should be changed I welcome
the critisism of my peers or my Magistrates.
Respectfully
Iusta Sempronia Iustina.

Gaius Popillius Laenas Iusta Sempronia Iustina salutem dicit.

You can find the record of any cive in their profile on the NR
website. It won't tell you if they have resigned in the past, but,
in an election, you can count on a candidate's opponemts to tell you
that ;-).

Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "shiarraeltradaik"
t<shiarraeltradaik@y...> wrote:

>
> Salve!
> I have read all the information on the case of Saturnias with
> interest as a study in the ramifications of legal macinations. I

have

> a question that has not been answered by anyone.
>
> I am a citizen of Nova Roma and take my citizenship very

seriously.

> Because of this I have voted in the recent election. I noticed

that

> unlike it is in RL politics the voters are not shown a record of

the

> candidate for Magistrate office. This is not fair to the

electorate

> in that such things as resignation and reassumption of an office

is

> not given thus a voter may be voting for someone who for any

reason

> resigned from his office and then changed his mind.
>
> In my opinion the only solution for this lack of information is to
> remove the nuntidina from the Lex in regards to return to office

with

> no penalty and the calling for a new election.
>
> This in MHO will assure the electorate that the candidate they are
> voting for did not resign for anything but emergency reasons. Thus
> they will not be voting for someone who apparently does not take
> their office seriously.
>
> If any of the above has not been clear or should be changed I

welcome

> the critisism of my peers or my Magistrates.
> Respectfully
> Iusta Sempronia Iustina.

Salve Iusta Semprinia, et salvete Quirites,

Iusta Sempronia Iustina wrote:

> I have a question that has not been answered by anyone.

I shall rectify that.

> I am a citizen of Nova Roma and take my citizenship very seriously.
> Because of this I have voted in the recent election. I noticed that
> unlike it is in RL politics the voters are not shown a record of the
> candidate for Magistrate office.

How so? There was a web page created listing the candidates and their
citizen pages. On each citizen page you can find the list of public
offices held, including the dates they were in office. If someone
didn't serve until 31 December in the year they were elected it's a good
bet they resigned. Some suffect magistrates don't serve a full year,
but that is because they come into office after January 1st. They still
should serve until Dec 31st. The only exception to this is provincial
governors, whose terms of office end on Feb 28th unless they are prorogued.

> In my opinion the only solution for this lack of information is to
> remove the nuntidina from the Lex in regards to return to office with
> no penalty and the calling for a new election.

As you'll have seen, you're in company with a good many citizens
thinking that the "resignation nundinum" ought to be done away with.

> This in MHO will assure the electorate that the candidate they are
> voting for did not resign for anything but emergency reasons. Thus
> they will not be voting for someone who apparently does not take
> their office seriously.

It's not quite that simple. A number of good magistrates have resigned
for reasons they felt were compelling at the time. Most of these
magistrates took their offices very seriously right up until their
resignations. Among these we can number one of our current Consuls, a
good and dedicated man who has given much to the Republic, and who
continues to serve us well. As a Tribune he had a personal crisis, and
submitted his resignation. So it's not a case of not taking one's
office seriously, because I know that many do.

That said, I am one of the people who would like to see the law changed
to eliminate the resignation nundinum for magistrates (and for that
matter for citizens too). I know this places me at odds with some of my
very good friends in Nova Roma, who consider the resignation nundinum a
vital tool in helping to keep valuable citizens with us, but it is a
position I've arrived at after much thought and consideration.

Now, you said that you had a question. Yet in all your message I found
no question. If you'd intended to ask one, please ask, so that I may
answer you.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salvete Quirites,

Lucius Iulius wrote:

> EDICTUM AEDILICIUM IULIANUM SULLANUM V DE LUDIS MEGALENSIBUS
> ANNO 2758 a.U.c.

[...]

> April 6th: Ludi Circenses quarters;
> April 8th: Ludi Circenses semifinals;
> April 10th: Ludi Circenses final;

For details and entry information see:

> www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro

Members of Factio Albata, this is our first opportunity of the new year.
Let's make a good showing.

Citizens! Come join Albata, and race with Nova Roma's most elite racing
factio. To join us and race in white, send your application to:

factio_albata-subscribe AT yahoogroups DOT com

Valete,

-- Marinus

VICESIMA QUARTA
The Newsletter of
LEGION XXIV - MEDIA ATLANTIA

MARCH 2005

Gallio Velius Marsallas / George Metz
Praefectus - Commander
13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073-3014
610-353-4982
legionxxiv@... www.legionxxiv.org

Commilitones

In just two weeks (Tempus Fugit!) we will be embarking from Winter Quarters and beginning our 2005 Campaigns.
Many events are scheduled and we will need as many of you as possible turning-out. Cris Goshey and several other newer members have indicated that they are getting prepared and will be taking part. Their service will be needed and greatly appreciated.

ADVENAE - Newcomers
*** Brad Carlen, Amulius Numerius Gaius, dr.carlen@... has asked to sign-on from way up north in Watertown WI.
*** Ben Bartleet benbartleet@... has inquired about Legion XXIV and he was redirected toward the several active Legions in California, where he resides.
*** Please join me in welcoming these new members to our ranks.

MID-WEST OPTIO AND TESSERARIUS DO A WALK-ABOUT IN ANN ARBOR
T. Flavius Ambiorix (John Shook), a new and up and coming auxiliary, went in full kit and gave a presentation at the Latin seminar at Univ. of Michigan, the weekend of March 19 & 20. It went well, and he walked around the streets of Ann Arbor with our Mid-West Optio, Quintus Fabricus Varus (David Smith), also in kit. They got some interesting questions, and puzzled looks. Ambiorix talked with Mr. Pauetter, who narrates ancient warfare on the History Channel. He was asked about auxiliaries carrying battle axes, and he said that they most certainly did, the evidence being on several tombstones.
So this means the Mid-West Vexillation Auxiliaries might think about having one person with an ax, instead of a sword or pugio.
Well Done, T. Flavius and Quintus Fabricus, for a successful campaign in spreading the heritage of Ancient Rome.

MARCHING THRU TIME - APRIL 16 & 17
The Annual Marching through Time multi-period event will be held at the Marietta Mansion, 5626 Bell Station Road, Glendale MD, on Saturday and Sunday, April 16 & 17. The Commander cannot attend on Saturday, but will be there on Sunday. Our troopers will fall-in with Matt Amt and Legion XX for the field drills and demonstrations. There will be a dinner served on Saturday evening. If you advise the Commander in advance that you will be attending the dinner and/or the MTT event, your MTT dinner will be paid for from the Legion treasury. The Legion XXIV catapulta with its new historically accurate trigger and prop leg will be undergoing field trials on Sunday.

ROMAN DAYS NORTHEAST - MAY 14 & 15
Julie and Lawrence of LaWrens Nest will be hosting their annual Roman Days Northeast event at the Fairgrounds, near Woodstock, CN. They are planning a varied and interesting event schedule, which will include some participation by the attending public. Legio III Cyrenaica, Legio III Italica, Legio X, Legio XXIV, and members of the SCA, Roman re-enactors and the Ludus Magnus Gladiators will be taking part. Unfortunately, your Commander cannot attend due to other commitments, but other Legion XXIV members are strongly encouraged to take part.
The more Romans there are, the better it is for the show.
Consult http://www.lawrensbasement.com/RomanDaysNE.html or contact lawrensnest@...
for more information, hotels, directions, etc.

Tentative Show Schedule:
11:00 - 11:30 am Rosenalia parade and celebration, military maneuvers and opening of the encampments
11:30 - 12:45 pm Roman Dude program - parade field
11:30 - 1:30 pm Legions, Gladiators, other Re-enactors (food, chariot) will
be holding their 15 minute presentation on their groups - at encampments
12:00 pm - shield making - kids activities area
12:30 pm - belldancers dance - parade field
2:00 pm - storytelling - children's area
2:00 pm - tax collectors taken hostage by Celts
2:00 - 2:30 pm confrontation with Celts and Legions, Celts taken prisoner and held for gladiator games
2:30 pm - pilum chucking demo - parade field
3:00 pm - siege weapon demo - place TBA
3:30 pm - gladiator fights - parade field
3:30 pm - storytelling - kids activities area
4:00 pm - military maneuvers - parade field
4:20 - 4:40 pm - new recruit contest - parade field
4:45 - 5:00 pm - closing ceremonies, rosenalia parade
Ongoing: all other kids activities, recruiting, food court, vendors, etc.

ROMAN DAYS - MARIETTA - JUNE 4 & 5

Matt Amt and his Legion XX will again be hosting their annual Roman Days event - All Rome! - All Day!! - on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, June 3, 4 & 5, at the Marietta Mansion, 5626 Bell Station Road, Glendale MD.
Roman Days is the Twentieth Legion's annual Big Event, to which all other Romans and other interested parties are invited. This year, the event is being run by Deb Fuller, and she has put together a series of informational pages which will explain all.
Goto http://www.larp.com/legioxx/rdays.html for detailed information on this great Roman Event.
There is an email discussion group for planning purposes, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/romandays/. Susan Wolfe is the Site Manager at Marietta, swolfe612@... or 301-464-5291.

SPECIAL ROMAN EVENT IN OTTAWA - AUGUST 6 & 7
The Canadian Museum of Civilization, in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada is organizing a huge exhibit on Pompeii at the time of the eruption of the Vesuvius Volcano in 79AD. They are asking to have Roman reenactors, both military and civilian, for the weekend of 6 and 7 of August. I do know that for many of you, including myself, that is right after the weekend at Fort Malden in Amhurstburg Ontario. However, it has been worked out that all participants will be compensated. Three meals a day will be provided, and not just hot dogs, including underaged participants.

Secondly, arrangements are being made to accommodate most if not all with a room to sleep in, children participating as reenactors included. A financial compensation will be provided for all adult participants. Bring everything you can, as we will need to be showing as much equipment as possible for this two day event. The museum will supply bails of hay for pilum shooting range and encampment. The Museum wants demos on pilae throwing and two maneuver demos daily. One at 11:00am and one at 2:00pm both Saturday and Sunday. For those who do not really know Ottawa well, the Museum is one of the biggest in Eastern Canada. It attracts about 10 million visitors per year and this special event will be no exception. Usually they attract thousands of interested people for that weekend alone. Please contact Marcus Darius Firmitus / "Marc Sarault" at 613-859-8289 for more details and questions, and to book your place as an individual or as a cohort or even as a legion. In return for the much appreciated Canadian hospitality in the past, Legion XXIV is expecting to have a major presence at this event.

Marcus Darius Firmitus
Propraetor, Canada Orientalis Provincia, Nova Roma
Legatus, Regio Nova Gallia
Tribunus Laticlavius LEG XII, Primus Pilus COH I
http://cf.geocities.com/legioqc http://www.novaroma.org http://www.canadaorientalis.webcentre.ca
Valete, Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX "Emporium" mamt@... legioxx@...

CATAPULTA NOW HAS PERIOD ACCURATE TRIGGER
The Legion's "Engine of Terror" catapulta has been out-fitted with a new "claw" style trigger, replacing the former SCA trigger, which worked very well, but was not historically accurate. The trigger was designed by the Commander and fabricated by Matthew Howe, a student at the Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades, near the Commander's domicile.
The Commander has also designed the proper skein collars, washers and anchor bars for the "Engine" and they are being fabricated at this time and could be in service by Roman Days in June. Go to www.legionxxiv.org/ballistapage and scroll down to the new trigger section for photos and how it works. Need a trigger for your catapult? Maybe the Commander's plans would work for you. Contact him at legionxxiv@....

UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS for 2005
*** April 16-17 Marching through Time, Marietta Mansion, Glendale, MD
*** May 13-14 Roman Days Northeast, Fairgrounds, Woodstock, CN. The Commander cannot attend, but other Legion members are most encouraged to take part. An interesting and varied program is planned.
*** May 20-21 Time Line Event with Ludus Magnus, Suffolk, LI, NY
*** June 3-5 Roman Days, Marietta Mansion, Glenn Dale, MD. Includes visits by school groups on Friday, and possibly a mini-symposium on Thursday.
*** June 18-19 Muster on the Maumee, Fort Meigs, Perrysburg, OH, south of Toledo
*** July 9-10 Rome Invades the "Harbor Fest" in Wells, ME, Thousands expected to Be There!
*** July 30-31 Annual Fort Malden Military Days, Amherstburg, Ontario
*** August 6-7 Major Roman Event at Canadian Museum of Civilization in Ottawa, Canada
*** August 16-20 Pennsic War, Coopers Lake Campground, New Castle, PA, I-79 and Rt 422
*** September Roman Market Days, Wells
*** October 22-23 Probable Ren Faire appearance, Waterloo Village, Netcong, NJ, I-80-exit 25 11AM-5PM

Get that armor and gear in shape for the upcoming Spring Campaigns! That's an Order! Get to It!


Thanking you for your continued support of Legion XXIV, I remain;

Yours in the Bonds of Ancient Rome

Gallio / George



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVE NOVA ROMANS !

Talking about victories is a commonly discussion,even so ,we forget that defeats have their specific contribution in the making of such an experience.
This year's subject consists in analyzing this kind of matter. And this matter altogether with similar ones contributed in the year 204 BC to the bringing forth of the Magna Matter Cult in Rome.
Those of you who will have the ability to illustrate in their essays the historical context,the miliary strategic elements and the dramatic nature of the events, as well as their consequences as reported to the Magna Matter Cult, shall be declared by the most honorable judge comittee the winners of Megalesia Cultural Award 2758.

THE BATTLE OF TRASIMENUs
In the early morning of June 24, 217 b.C., under a thick layer of fog, the best part of the Roman Army was already stationed in the plains. Hannibal had positioned his light cavalry and the Celts at the entrance to the valley to block any possible Roman retreat; the Libyans and Iberians protected his camp; the Balearics and Asiati closed the way to the hill of Montigeto. Hannibal gave orders that they should all attack at the same time. The battle continued for three hours, and 15,000 Roman soldiers who sought escape in the waters of the lake were killed.

Do you want more.....?

www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro

1) The literary award, "Megalensia Cultural Award" is open to all the citizens of Nova Roma. The task of the contest is to write a text about a historical deed connected to the cult of the Magna Mater in Rome.

2) The Award is open to single participants or to groups composed of a maximum of 5 citizens. Each participant or group of participants can participate with just _one_ work. It isn't allowed to be a member of a group and participate as a individual at the same time. The contributed work must be in English, with a maximum of 2000 words. These kinds of works are accepted: novel, drama, tragedy about the Trasimenus battle.

3) Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s):
Nova Roman name, real name, Nova Roman Province, age and e-mail address.

4) The deadline to send own work is April 4th 2005 (2758 a.u.c.) at 24.00 time of Roma, by e-mail to iulius_sabinus@... with the subject "Megalesia Cultural Award". Entries posted to any Nova Roma mailing list will be disqualified.

OPTIME VALE,

IVL SABINVS,

Curator Aedilis Aranei.

www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro
















__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

Today is ante diem VII Kalendas Aprilis; the day is Comitialis.

"Credula vitam spes fovet et melius cras fore semper dicit." -
(Credulous hope supports our life, and always says that tomorrow will
be better) - Tibullus

"After this division of the forces was augmented there was a second
collision with the Sabines, in which the increased strength of the
Roman army was aided by an artifice. Men were secretly sent to set
fire to a vast quantity of logs lying on the banks of the Anio, and
float them down the river on rafts. The wind fanned the flames, and as
the logs drove against the piles and stuck there they set the bridge
on fire. This incident, occurring during the battle, created a panic
among the Sabines and led to their rout, and at the same time
prevented their flight; many after escaping from the enemy perished in
the river. Their shields floated down the Tiber as far as the City,
and being recognised, made it clear that there had been a victory
almost before it could be announced. In that battle the cavalry
especially distinguished themselves. They were posted on each wing,
and when the infantry in the centre were being forced back, it is said
that they made such a desperate charge from both sides that they not
only arrested the Sabine legions as they were pressing on the
retreating Romans, but immediately put them to flight. The Sabines, in
wild disorder, made for the hills, a few gained them, by far the
greater number, as was stated above, were driven by the cavalry into
the river. Tarquin determined to follow them up before they could
recover from their panic. He sent the prisoners and booty to Rome; the
spoils of the enemy had been devoted to Vulcan, they were accordingly
collected into an enormous pile and burnt; then he proceeded forthwith
to lead his army into the Sabine territory. In spite of their recent
defeat and the hopelessness of repairing it, the Sabines met him with
a hastily raised body of militia, as there was no time for concerting
a plan of operations. They were again defeated, and as they were now
brought to the verge of ruin, sought for peace." - Livy, History of
Rome 1.37



"Jesus Christus, Gottes Sohn,
An unser Statt ist kommen
Und hat die Sünde weggetan,
Damit dem Tod genommen
All sein Recht und sein Gewalt,
Da bleibet nichts denn Tods Gestalt,
Den Stach'l hat er verloren.

Es war ein wunderlicher Krieg,
Da Tod und Leben rungen,
Das Leben behielt den Sieg,,
Es hat den Tod verschlungen.
Die Schrift hat verkündigt das,
Wie ein Tod den andern fraß,
Ein Spott aus dem Tod ist worden."

Valete bene,

Cato

Salvete omnes,

What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this morning?
I liked they way it was before but perhaps I have been used to it for
too long.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Salve Quinte Lani,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:

> What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this morning?

I don't much care for it. It makes the management functions harder to
perform, and takes longer to load.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salve Pauline !

And because the usage is the second nature, for me, now, it isn't very comfortable.

Vale,
Iulius Sabinus

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes,

What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this morning?
I liked they way it was before but perhaps I have been used to it for
too long.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVETE OMNES

I wish to thank all those who congratulated with me on the Certamen
Petronianum. It hasn't been easy to get in touch with the two
experts (Colleen McCullough in particular, as you can imagine),
still once I reached them they have been very kind and liked the
project of such a contest.
I hope the Certamen Petronianum will give Nova Roma a wider exposure
in the cultural world. It has already been published on a couple of
search engines for writing contests.

Someone complained about the fact entries must be written in
English. I see this point of view and I for one understand that many
citizens will be disadvantaged because of this. I hope to be able to
organize an Italian version of this contest next year with Italian
judges (myself being Italian), and I shall be glad to offer my
contribution to those who will wish to organize the same contest in
their own language.

As you know the winner will be announced during the Ludi Plebei
which I'll organize in November. I think it would be a nice thing if
every year the Certamen Petronianum will be organized by the
Plebeian Aediles. It could be a good way to ennoble this office
which to date is still considered as the younger brother of the
curule aedilship. What do you think?

OPTIME VALETE
M'C.Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

AVE CIVES NOVAROMANI !

<<Quare magna deum mater materque ferarum et nostri genetrix haec dicta est corporis una. Hanc veteres Graium docti cecinere poetae sedibus in curru biiugos agitare leones, aeris in spatio magnam pendere docentes tellurem neque posse in terra sistere terram.>>

(Therefore she is the Mother of the gods, the Mother of wild beasts, and our creator. Of her the learned poets of Greece sang of a time when she was drawn in a chariot by two yoked lions, meaning that the great earth hangs in the middle of the air and earth cannot rest on earth)

Titus Lucretius Caro, De Rerum Natura, Liber II, vv. 598-604

http://www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro

Ludi Megalesia Venationes How to Take Part

A players can choose TWO gladiators, animals or both for taking part in the Ludi (see the rules for types). The player will have to mail Titus Iulius Sabinus a message to iulius_sabinus@... with the following information: Name of the gladiator or animal, type of gladiator or animal and finally the tactics, that he will choose among these three:

1) "Defensive" tactics. It adds one point, but the gladiator or animal has 40 % of probabilities of surviving in case of defeat, because the public does not like these tactics.
2) "Yourself" tactics. It neither adds nor take points. 50 % of probabilities of which the public asks for the death in case of defeat.
3) "Total attack" tactics. It reduced one point, but the gladiator or animal has 65 % of probabilities of surviving in case of defeat, because the public likes these tactics.

Subscriptions are admitted until April 4th.

MORE IN :

http://www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro/rules.htm

http://www.cohorssullana.grafosystem.ro/howtotake.htm


OPTIME VALE !
IVL SABINVS
Curator Aedilis Aranei







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Quinte Lani;
I hate, hate, hate it! It's godawful trying to read in a tiny
vertical column, all the text space is for the blasted advertisemnt.
I am writing them a stiff letter asap,
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
>
> > What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this morning?
>
> I don't much care for it. It makes the management functions harder

to

> perform, and takes longer to load.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus

I think it blows chunks.
--- mjk@... <mjk@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came

up this morning?

> I liked they way it was before but perhaps I have

been used to it for

> too long.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
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Salvete

I am currently attempting to translate the names of about 60 cities and towns within the province of Canada Occidentalis. My Latin is quite poor as I had only taken a one-semester Latin class at university. If anyone can offer assistance, I would be grateful. Please email me off-list as I am hesitant to discuss my failings in public. I have enough ex-girlfriends that do that anyway :>

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Marca Hortensia, Censor Marine et omnes,

I argee with you 100%. You don't see the same info and the many
messages on one page anymore and loading seems slower. I have to
write to Yahoo and chew them out as well!

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Quinte Lani;
> I hate, hate, hate it! It's godawful trying to read in a tiny
> vertical column, all the text space is for the blasted
advertisemnt.
> I am writing them a stiff letter asap,
> bene vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
> >
> > > What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this
morning?
> >
> > I don't much care for it. It makes the management functions
harder
> to
> > perform, and takes longer to load.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > -- Marinus

It is no use complaining. Not long ago I was insulted twice by
some smart alecky kid there and couldn't even find an address or
person to complain to.

I hate it too.

Good luck.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Quinte Lani;
> I hate, hate, hate it! It's godawful trying to read in a tiny
> vertical column, all the text space is for the blasted
advertisemnt.
> I am writing them a stiff letter asap,
> bene vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
> >
> > > What do you all think of Yahoo's new look that came up this
morning?
> >
> > I don't much care for it. It makes the management functions
harder
> to
> > perform, and takes longer to load.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > -- Marinus

Salvete Quinte Lani, Marine omnesque;
there is an effective way to complain. I wrote to Yahoo, that no one
in our big group here, ages 18-35 will buy one advertised item until
we get our text back.
Believe me they care;-)

So write to them and tell them this! I just did IN CAPS!
sorry to yell:)
optime valete
Marca Hortenisa Maior

>

I argee with you 100%. You don't see the same info and the many

> messages on one page anymore and loading seems slower. I have to
> write to Yahoo and chew them out as well!
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>

Hi,

I'm a sixth form student and I've just set up a fresh and new
Ancient Rome group. Its therefore only just set up and needs some
help to really get going. All are welcome, wherever you are over the
world, whether you have just a casual interest in the era, or you
are an expert of the period. The group is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templejupiter/

Come and join us so we can have some vibrant and interesting
discussions. All views and opinions are respected, and we're hoping
to build a warm community.

Many thanks
Jordan Perry
Owner of the 'Temple of Jupiter'

G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete ones!

Hmmmm....could we form a mob (replete with torches, pitchforks, and
various other rustic farming equipment) and storm the Yahoo Evil
Fortress, chanting "Yahoo delenda est!" ?

Just a thought.

Valete,

Cato