Salvete,

Although not everything is known about the practice, the Roman context (in light of the Indo-European context without having to interpolate IE aspects, in this case) sheds some light on the meaning.

First, a look at the Indo-European linguistics of Ceres. Her name derives from the same Latin root as cresco and creare. She is, in name, derived from the Indo-European *ker, or growth as a person or beginning, stimulating impulse. The archaic Latin roots ties her to Janus. Just as Janus is "cerus", "ceres manus" and "ceres bonus" in terms of public order (religion, peace and war) of humans, so Ceres is in the cult of the field -- agri-cult- agriculture. Some older scholars posited Janus as Ceres consort but most scholars reject that in light of better evidence.

Second, as the cult of Telus and Ceres become closer in nature and in the calendar, [the old Cerialia of 19 April becomes a festival starting on 12 April, with the Fordicidia coming days later on the 15), both the Ceres and Tellus are sacrificed a pregnant cow. But this is a later (although quite early, imposition of the Tellus cult onto the Ceres cult). Ceres, as growth personified, in archaic times did not take a sacrifice taking a life. Rather, as stimulator, her sacrifice was to create excitement, stimulus, ceres bonus. The original and archaic bloodless sacrifice of Ceres (before the sacrifice of the pregnant cow to Tellus bacame part of both cults) was one with those foxes.

The Ludi of 19 April, where foxes are released with torches tied to their tails in the Circus is to creare a commotion, stir things up, while separating the boundary between the wild (Diana, Mars, Faunus, Fauns) and the domesticated (Minerva, Ceres, Silvanus, Lares). The grains are already stimulated -- the foxes with their tails on fire -- are tied to Mars (also warlike protector of the fields from ravage, the Semones (spirits or sprites or elves, ??? of growth), the Lares (spirits of the place), and their release causes the stir, the commotion, the hazard, the stimulus of the ancillary forces of growth that require domestic order, a marking between domesticated (Slivanus) and wild (Faunus) while stimulating the Semones and Lares to their renewed roles in growing crops and protecting fields. In essence, letting the foxes go with fire on their tails was the non-death sacrifice that got the slumbering forces assisting domesticated growth and protecting domestic fields and cultivation
awakened and off their spiritual duff. It is also indicated this was considered a triple circumambulatio of the pagus.

Valete,

Lucia Cassia Silvana <lucia_silvana@...> wrote:


Salvete! I'm wondering if anyone has done any research into the
possible reasons behind the loosing of foxes into the Circus at the
end of the Cerialia? If there are any new writings/ideas about why that
was done? I've read Cato's posting on the story relayed by Publius
Ovidius Naso and some thoughts from others about it (warding off of
fires or corn blight, etc.) but wondered if any citizens here had
researched/written on the topic. I ask because as I wandered through
the forest today and took my rest at the edge of the airfield where
there are presently vast acres of dry golden grass, I saw a brilliant
golden-red fox sprinting through it. :)

Valete!
Cassia Silvana









---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



A. Sempronius Atratinus Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius A. Sempronio omnibusque sal.
>
> > Roman names are an area I have not really studied
> in
> > depth. But here is a sketch of my understanding
> and
> > question. Already in Republican times it appears
> the
> > "classic three name" formula was already too
> simple
> > in some cases. The person I picked to be named
> after
> > had two cognomina as a "stirps" off the gens
> > Sempronius -- namely Atratinus, Regulus.
>
> If Sempronius Atratinus Regulus was a magistrate
> during the republic, he's not in Broughton. Was he a
> private citizen? I can find a number of Sempronii
> Atratini, but no Atratini Reguli.

Yes, a bunch of Aulus Sempronius Atratinius. According
to my research, the Sempronia originally hail from
Umbria. It is a guess the Roman division between
patrician and plebian branches might reflect a
division in the Umbrian gens between those for and
against the Romans. There is a Umbrian Atratinius
Regulus that is Roman plebeian. So, why the Regulus?
As you say, four names are rare in this period. Rarer
among plebeians. So, either the Regulus is a
descriptive nickname (the cognomen could be that,
yes?) or an Umbrian branch of the Sempronii originally
opposed to the Romans, ex hypothesi.

>
> > It is my understanding that a gens could have a
> > stirps. But it also seems a stirps could itself
> have
> > its own stirps, yes? For example, the gens
> Cornelia,
> > for example, developed stirps of the Scipiones,
> and
> > this in turn the stirpsof the Nasicae. So we find
> > the fourfold name Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica.
> > Is this correct?
>
> Yes, and it could go even further (e.g. P. Cornelius
> P. f. P. n. Scipio Nasica Corculum and his
> contemporary P. Cornelius P. f. P. n. Scipio Nasica
> Serapio). But very few people had more than three
> names until the late republic.
>
> I would urge you to content yourself with the usual
> three names.

I'm happy with the three name. I picked it based on
history (I rather have a fondness for both early
Sempronii and the Gracchi) but the Umbrian original is
an Atratinius Regulus. After all the discussion on
this topic (especially the Buteo post), I thought I
should add the Atratinius, but also, ask about it.

Adding an extra cognomen was usually

> only
> done in ancient times when a stirps contained so
> many
> people that several of them had identical names and
> needed to be distinguished.

It is my understanding that it could also be a
descriptive nickname of a branch (yes?), an honorific
(for an individual and not passed on to his
descendents, usually), and/or social class within the
same gens and same stirp.


Since your stirps

> contains
> only one person, there's no danger that you will be
> confused with anyone else. And if you start with
> four
> names, what will happen in future generations of
> your
> line? Five, six, seven names? Your
> great-grandchildren
> might take several minutes to introduce themselves!
> :)

My children already do and without mentioning their
names (like, "hey, dude, you blade?...").;-)

Vale,

A. Sempronius Atratinus Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide

Salvete,

Is it true that the next pope will get a better score
out of the cardinals than the cardinals can get in
each and every of their games during the baseball
season?

There is a fair amount of material on Roman humor.
Perhaps the Muses list or some NR list should have a
Roman humor/joke list [mostly, historically authentic
-- I've heard Bundeswehr jokes that were a re-hash of
Imperial German jokes, some of which come from a
classics education).

Valete,

A. Sempronius Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

Salve Illustrus Regulus,
try to visit this website http://www.romanhideout.com/suppliers.asp
It contains a long list of merchants in all the world, you could
find what you're searching.

vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
<a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> Is there a recommended US maker of reproduction Roman furniture?
>
> I discovered a couple of British and Italian merchants but import

to US

> cost more than I would like to pay.
>
> I already have some pieces copied by the Amish but they can't make
> it if I don't have something to copy. I am, in particular, looking

for

> candelaria and chairs.
>
> Tibi gratias,
>
>
>
> A. Sempronius Atratinus Regulus
>
> Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
> Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
> MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVETE OMNES

Today is the last day of the Ludi Ceriales! Today we'll know the
winner of the chariot races!
The Sun of the morning walks on the sky and lights the nervous faces
of the spectators, they are very impatient awaiting the final race.
Though they´re only greens and blues, because the whites and the reds
are in their homes, chewing the humiliating and sad defeat in these
Ludi.
The circus is a spectacle in two colors!
In the theatre box of honour there are important personalities like
Consul Caesar, who is a famous red fan, Consul Laenas, the aediles,
many governors of the provinces and very honourable senators and
priests, though today only green and blue.

------------FINAL RACE---------------

On the sand, four champion chariots are awaiting the race:

Tiberius Annaeus Otho
chariot: Basilea
driver: Septimius Raurax
Factio: Praesina

Caius Curius Saturninus
chariot: Inexpugnabilis III
driver: Euthymius
Factio: Praesina

Lucius Vitellius Triarius
Chariot: Velox Puteulanus Sors
Auriga: Felix Celeris
Factio: Veneta

Marca Hortensia Maior
chariot: Stella Iudeae
driver: Herodias
Factio: Praesina


Three greens vs one blue. The blues want revenge of past defeats and
the greens want to increase their glory.
On the green steps, Tiberius Annaeus Otho has brought an enormous
statue of Ceres. So the green Otho waits to obtain the
favour of the goddess in this race. Caius Curius Saturninus had to
bring his young son to the circus. This will be his first race!
Marca hortensia Maior is very concentrated and nobody dares annoying
her...
On the blue steps, Lucius Vitellius Triarius touches a string amulet.

But now the trumpets blare!!! The race is starting!!!

Velox Puteulanus is the first in the first curve. The blues
shouts "Felix Celeris, Felix Celeris!" but the statue of Ceres
trembles and Felix Celeris suffers a terrible sneeze-attack on the
straight line. It´s incredible!! His
sneezes are terrible!
Now Basilea takes advantage but Stella Iudeae runs very
close. Stella Iudeae stalks Basilea, and Inexpugnabilis III runs
behind both, waiting for its chance, while Velox Puteulanus of Felix
Celeris is
slower each moment because its driver does not stop sneezing.
The fight between Basilea and Stella Iudeae is memorable. The
public gets up and waves the flags encouraging to the chariots. The
greens are roaring as wild beasts. Lucius Vitellius Triarius is so
nervous that he bites his string amulet. Meanwhile Stella Iudeae
takes advantage, but the statue of Ceres trembles again and its
driver Herodias suffers a frightful irritation in his back. The
irritation is so uncontrollable that he has to stop his chariot for
scratching himself before the laughs of all the blue
fans. His master Marca Hortensia Maior chokes on Ceres' statue and
coughs disconsolately. The fury of some of the greens is enormous on
the steps, but
they can do nothing against the power of the goddess. The blue
chariot
has a sneeze driver and a green chariot a scraper one.
Therefore this race will be between two green chariots: Basilea and
Inexpugnabilis III!!!
But the goddess Ceres is not happy yet. The statue trembles again
and Felix Celeris stops sneezing. He can start again!
At a certain point, after one more lap, Euthymius of Inexpugnabilis
III finds in front of himself the chariot Stella Iudeae, which is
stationary in the middle of the track as its driver is still
scratching himself. Euthymius has to suddenly curb his horses. Velox
Puteulanus takes advantage of the situation to pass Inexpugnabilis
III and set off in pursuit of Basilea which is leading the race.
Inexpugnabilis III bypasses Stella Iudeae and resumes the race.
Velox Puteulanus is now just behind Basilea and after the curve
takes again the lead! Euthymius doesn't intend to give up and spurs
his horses: Inexpugnabilis starts hurrying and in one lap reaches
the leading group. Now the three chariots are very close!
It's the last lap! Velox Puteulanus is leading the race and
Inexpugnabilis III passes Basilea!!!!


AAAAARGH!!!!!

That Stella Iudeae is always there in the middle of the track!!!
Velox Puteulanus has to suddenly turn left to avoid the chariot of
the scraper, thus cutting across Euthymius' path who has to stop his
chariot Inexpugnabilis to avoid a disaster! Velox Puteulanus manages
to restart but Basilea is again the leader! Basilea wins!!! Velox
Puteulanus is second and Inexpugnabilis III is third! Another
victory for Factio Praesina!
A wave of green flags rises in the sky while the happy Tiberius
Annaeus Otho is congratulated by the members of his factio, who pray
fervently before Ceres' statue.
This season may be another green one!!!

Veneta is the secondary actor in the races, while Russata and Albata
sink.
Maybe the next Ludi will have a different result. But now
the Circus is green.

Results:
1st Basilea (Praesina)
2nd Velox Puteulanus Sors (Veneta)
3rd Inexpugnabilis III (Praesina)
4th Stella Iudeae (Praesina) (scrape accident)

WINNER: BASILEA!!!! (PRAESINA)

Congratulations to the winner!!!!



Last news: Herodias has been brought to the hospital. Doctors said
they can do nothing to relieve pain. The only thing he can do is to
keep scratching himself. Anyway they assured the irritation in his
back should pass in a couple of months.


OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

Salve,
If any Citizen's use Nextel or Boost Mobile Cell phones and use the Direct
Connect/Walkie Talkie feature let me know. Just send me a private e-mail
with your DC# and we'll talk this evening.

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Fidenas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,
sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with boring
tonsillits.
I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the efforts
by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the Propraetor
Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.

However I offer you another important answer coming from this last
event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we all should
ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.

If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar group, it
means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe sometimes
we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.

Any opinion is welcome.

Valete
Fr.Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

AVETE OMNES

Let me remind you that from August 4th to 10th it will take place
the 4th Conventus Novae Romae, the international rally of Nova Roma!

It is a great honour for Provincia Italia to host the IV Conventus
Novae Romae in Europa, an event which has become a tradition and
which has been growing year after year.

This Conventus will be held in Rome. What better place to get
together? The Eternal City will show you Her sacred history, you
will walk along the same streets our ancestors walked along, you
will see their temples, their monuments, their houses. You will
visit places which tourists are not usually allowed to see, you will
take part in most interesting and informative discussions about
Romanitas, you will eat like a Roman and will fight like a Roman!

It will be the perfect opportunity to meet a lot of other Novaroman
citizens, to discuss our Res Publica in person, to compare our
Provinciae and improve them by sharing experiences, ideas and new
projects.

All information is available at our website at:

http://italia.novaroma.org/conventus2758/index.htm

You cannot miss this fantastic event. After all, Rome was and always
will be the most important Roman city in the world! Take part in the
IV Conventus Novae Romae. It will be an unforgettable experience!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Propraetor Italiae

F. Galerius Aurelianus Flamen Cerealis S.P.D.

The Cerealia was the most important festivals celebrated in Rome to
honor Ceres, Goddess of Grain & Agriculture and Protectress of the
Plebs. It began on April the 12th, coinciding with the Forcidicia
(Feast of Tellus Gravida) and extended until April the 19th. It was
a feast of plebeian character and it was organized by the Plebeian
Aediles, while the Patricians were considered guests during these
days (although before, in the feasts of Cybele –Ludi Megalesia-the
Patricians were the ones who invited the Plebeians). In
these days people dressed in white, as an expression of their
happiness for Proserpina-Persephone-Libera's return to Ceres' side
and it was customary to carry pine torches on the street. The Flamen
Cerealis presided over the lighting of two pines trees that were
ritually fired by night to provide light for Ceres in Her search for
Her lost child. It was forbidden to have sexual relations from April
11 until the end of the Cerealia on April 19 to represent the
barreness of the Earth during the period that Ceres was separated
from Her daughter. Another rite of this day was to walk three times
around the fields or boundaries of one's land with a sow, before
sacrificing it to Ceres. Ovid says that spelt flour and salt can be
sacrified to the Goddess on the lararium's fire (focus), as well as
incense or resin rich pine branches. Virgilio adds milk, honey and
wine among possible offerings.

[This post is offered for the good of the Senate & People of Nova
Roma from F. Galerius Aurelianus, Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus, L.
Arminius Faustus, and the current Plebeian Aediles & Tribunes).

Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,

The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens seemingly
under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on that
province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of Canada
Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from a member
of his gens and our province complaining about how awful things were
in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.

Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus, Senator
Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit or
resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious blow to Res
Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off and on
with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help build NR
and they stay around through thick and thin putting their time,
effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I have
with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they contribute
nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no responsibilities,
lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and swan song,
one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find their
own nitch or kingdom.

This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you know, my
wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused that our
harshist critics and detractors are those people which have done the
least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up chairs
and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems within
the organization. I can think of many other organizations and clubs
that have this same problem.

I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had failed as
artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so hard for NR
and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens but
those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then damning
NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations as a
joke and treat them accordingly.

Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.


Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
> sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with boring
> tonsillits.
> I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the

efforts

> by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the Propraetor
> Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.
>
> However I offer you another important answer coming from this last
> event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we all

should

> ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.
>
> If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar group,

it

> means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe

sometimes

> we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
>
> Any opinion is welcome.
>
> Valete
> Fr.Apulus Caesar
> Senior Consul

F. Galerius Aurelianus Flamen Cerealis S.P.D.

O Universal mother, Ceres fam'd
August, the source of wealth, and various named:
Great nurse, all-bounteous, blessed and divine,
Who reveled in peace, to nourish corn is thine:
Goddess of seed, of fruits abundant, fair,
Harvest and threshing, are thy constant care;
Who dwellest in Eleusina's seats retired,
Lovely, delightful queen, by all desired.
Nurse of all mortals, whose benign mind,
First ploughing oxen to the yoke confined;
And gave to men, what nature's wants require,
With plenteous means of bliss which all desire.
In verdure flourishing in honor bright,
Assessor of great Liber, bearing light:
Rejoicing in the reapers sickles, kind,
Whose nature lucid, earthly, pure, we find.
Prolific, venerable, Nurse divine,
Thy daughter loving, holy Proserpine:
A cart with dragons yoked, 'tis thine to guide,
And orgies singing round thy throne to ride:
Only-begotten, much-producing queen,
All flowers are thine and fruits of lovely green.
Bright Goddess, come, with Summer's rich increase
Swelling and pregnant, leading smiling Peace;
Come, with fair Concord and republican Health,
And join with these a needful store of wealth.

This prayer is offered on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova
Roma in the name of the Tribunes of the Plebs and the Plebian
Aediles, by the Flamen Cerealis:

C. Curius Saturinus
P. Memmius Albucius
D. Constantius Fuscus
Marca Hortensia Maior
M. Bianchius Antonius

Manius Contantinus Serapio
S. Labienus Cicero

F. Galerius Aurelianus

This ode was written by L. Arminius Faustus who was one of the
Plebeian Aediles during the Ludi Cerealia, AVC 2756.

I Sing the Tears of Ceres
— L. Faustus

I sing the tears of Mother Ceres
Without sleep, mourning on Olympus High Peaks,
Missing beloved Core,
Kidnapped on the deep Hades
By the Invisible God in love
- Tricks of cheerful Venus
That not even brings happiness to the hearts
Of Mortals and Gods.

Sicily noble lands
Springly ever flourishing lands
Valley of the River Ena
Core and the nimphs used to play
Like infant kids
Their innocent tricks.

Hear a strange noise?
The basement of Earth shakes
Open its dark mounth
Then from the deepest
Come the God gloriously
His chariot of blackest horses
Shining on ultmost bright gold

Strong but soft arms caught the virgin
(Because father Pluto wasn´t so used
To court and love´s ways)
Why, Muses, the King of Hades
Tried a so desesperated measure?
He felt a pain on his heart
Neither nectar our sweetest ambrosia
Haven´t taken out that suffering as well.
Core! He painly desires his niece
Ceres should had undestand
(Thought the almigh Lord of the Deads)
For a brother a daughter she shouldn´t deny!

As the golden chariot descended on darkness
Core, on despair, cried for the Mother.
But the Illustrious Klymenos touching the beloved girl
Felt a kind of peace and pleasure
Like a warm wind shaking the flowers
On the bessed valleys of Arcadia
Our when the nimphs sings
On the sacred Idean florest of the Mother of Gods.

While the cave faded the cries of the girl
Core realized a mourning on their ears
The Invisible King was talking to her
Strange speech for the Lord of the Deads

´May you loves or hates me
I really don´t care now
On the name of my ciclopian helmet
Or even of the Stigian River
Ceres can do all noise on Olympus
Standing on the knee of Themis
Can even Iove threats me
Or the gods, on assembly, coming here
Triyng to change my mind
I shall not abandon you!
Be my Queen, Core beloved,
Like the your mother´s seeds
That sleeps waiting to grown
On the edge of my reign!´

This ode is posted on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova Roma
by the Flamen Cerealis that the Goddess will grant us all blessings,
full fields, and bountiful harvests.

THE CEREALIA RITUAL, AVC 2758, offered by F. Galerius Aurelianus
Flamen Cerealis, on the final day of the Ludi Cerealia on the behalf
of the Senate and People of Nova Roma in the sincere hope that the
Goddess will find this rite pleasing and will grant our people full
fields and bountiful harvests.

I bathed in preparation, then, garbed in toga virilis, cinctu Gabino,
capite velato, I began the praefatio.

[RUBRICS *Adoratio ^Right Hand to Heart]

Praefatio

"Iane pater*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum Quiritum
[Father Ianus, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers,
so that you may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and
People of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I placed incense in the
focus of the altar.

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum
Quiritum [Iuppiter Best and Greatest, by offering this incense to
you I pray good prayers, so that you may be willingly propitious to
me and the Senate and People of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I
placed incense in the focus of the altar.

"Iuno Regina*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitia mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum Quiritum
[Queen Iuno, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so
that you may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People
of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I placed incense in the focus of
the altar.

"Minerva Dea*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitia mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum Quiritum
[Goddess Minerva, by offering this incense to you I pray good
prayers, so that you may be willingly propitious to me and the
Senate and People of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I placed
incense in the focus of the altar.

"Mars pater*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum Quiritum
[Father Mars, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so
that you may be willingly propitious to me and the Senate and People
of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I placed incense in the focus of
the altar.

"Quirine pater*, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi^ et Senatui Populoque Novaromanorum Quiritum
[Father Quirinus, by offering this incense to you I pray good
prayers, so that you may be willingly propitious to me and the
Senate and People of the Novaromans, the Quirites]." I placed
incense in the focus of the altar.

"Iane pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Ianus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene
precatus sum, eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Iuppiter
Best and Greatest, as by offering to you the incense virtuous
prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this
humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Iuno Regina*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Queen Iuno, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the
focus of the altar.

"Minerva Dea*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Goddess Minerva, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

"Mars pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Mars, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the
focus of the altar.

"Quirine pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus
sum, eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Quirinus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

I washed my hands in preparation for the praecatio.

Precatio

"Ceres mater*, quae in mente communi omnes Plebii consociat, quae
tibi fieri oportet in die ludioram culignam vini, ergo macte hac
pollucenda esto. [Mother Ceres, who unites all the Plebs in a common
purpose, because it is proper on the day of the games to offer you a
cup of wine, therefore be honored by this feast offering.]" I poured
a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Ceres mater*, quae tibi fieri oportet in die ludioram incensum,
ergo macte hac pollucenda esto." ["Mother Ceres, because it is proper
on the day of the games to offer incense to you, therefore be
honored by this feast offering.]" I placed incense of pine resin &
salt on the focus of the altar.

I washed my hand in preparation for the redditio.

Redditio

"Ceres mater*, macte istace dape pollucenda esto, macte vino inferio
esto." [Mother Ceres, may you be honored by this feast offering, may
you be honored by the humble wine.]" I placed spelt cakes and wine
on the focus of the altar.

"Quirine pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus
sum, eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Quirinus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

"Mars pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Mars, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the
focus of the altar.

"Minerva Dea*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Goddess Minerva, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

"Iuno Regina*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Queen Iuno, as by offering
to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of
this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the
focus of the altar.

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene
precatus sum, eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Iuppiter
Best and Greatest, as by offering to you the incense virtuous
prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this
humble wine.]" I poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Iane pater*, uti te ture ommovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto [Father Ianus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for
the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]" I poured a
libation on the focus of the altar.

"Vesta Dea*, custos ignis sacri, macte vino inferio esto [Goddess
Vesta, guardian of the sacred fire, be honored by this humble wine.]"
I poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

"Ita vultis, ita est!" ["As You will, so it is!"]

"Illicet [It is permitted to go.]"

I profaned wine and cakes, and I partook of the epulum with Ceres
mater, praying as I ate and offering libations in my private
devotions.

Piaculum

As the actual complete rites at the Closing of the Ludi Ceralia have
not yet been recovered, I offer a piaculum to Ceres mater if
anything in this caerimonia should offend her and I made this
offering as atonement.

"Ceres mater*, si quidquam tibi in hac caerimonia displicet, hoc
vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio."
[Mother Ceres, if anything in this ceremony is displeasing to you,
with this humble wine I ask forgiveness and expiate my fault.]" I
poured a libation on the focus of the altar.

This ritual is performed on the closing day of the Ludi Cerealia AVC
2758. I express my sincere gratitude to the Plebeian Aediles—S.
Labienus Cicero and Manius Constantinus Serapio-for organizing this
Ludi.

I also wish to express my thanks to M. Cassius Julianus, G. Iulius
Scaurus, G. Modius Athansios, Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus, Patricia
Cassia, Antonius Gryllus Graecus, G. Minucius Hadrianus, and L.
Arminius Faustus for all they have done to help restore the Religio
Romana and the Cult of the Goddess Ceres.

A. Apollonius A. Sempronio omnibusque sal.

> Yes, a bunch of Aulus Sempronius Atratinius.
> According
> to my research, the Sempronia originally hail from
> Umbria. It is a guess the Roman division between
> patrician and plebian branches might reflect a
> division in the Umbrian gens between those for and
> against the Romans.

Possibly; but I'd think it more likely that the
plebeian branches of the gens were originally clients
or freedmen of the patrician Sempronii. Of course the
nature of the patriciate in early Rome is a tricky
question - I quite like Cornell's theory.

> ... There is a Umbrian Atratinius
> Regulus that is Roman plebeian.

That's very interesting, for of course the famous
Sempronii Atratini were patricians (almost the only
patrician branch of that gens). Is your Atratinus
Regulus attested in a literary source or in an
inscription? I'm sure Julilla Sempronia would be
interested in this information too - as you probably
know, she's collected a lot of information on the
Sempronii at her website
(http://www.villaivlilla.com/GensSempronia/about.htm).

> ... So, why the Regulus?
> As you say, four names are rare in this period.
> Rarer
> among plebeians. So, either the Regulus is a
> descriptive nickname (the cognomen could be that,
> yes?) or an Umbrian branch of the Sempronii
> originally
> opposed to the Romans, ex hypothesi.

Yes, cognomina often began as nicknames. It would be
an unusual nickname, for presumably this fellow wasn't
really a chieftan or petty king. But perhaps he was a
demanding child - "little king".

> I'm happy with the three name. I picked it based on
> history (I rather have a fondness for both early
> Sempronii and the Gracchi) but the Umbrian original
> is
> an Atratinius Regulus. After all the discussion on
> this topic (especially the Buteo post), I thought I
> should add the Atratinius, but also, ask about it.

I think our censor decided to add an extra name not
because he feels we should all be named after genuine
historical people, but because he personally wanted a
proper cognomen to pass on to his descendants
("Quintilianus", of course, is merely an adoptive
cognomen and applies only to the individual who has
been adopted). So I don't think you should feel any
pressure to add an extra cognomen if you don't want
to.

> It is my understanding that it could also be a
> descriptive nickname of a branch (yes?), an
> honorific
> (for an individual and not passed on to his
> descendents, usually), and/or social class within
> the
> same gens and same stirp.

Yes, that's about right, except that I'm not aware of
any examples of a single stirps containing both
patricians and plebeians - generally a stirps is
either patrician or plebeian.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Salve Illustrus Paulinus,
honestly I fully disagree. Why? Because you as a group of citizens
think what citizens could do or give to our Res Publica and not what
our organization (a real no-profit organization in the world) is
offering to its members.
I thought ever that if a gentleman pay to be member of a groups the
only reasons of the voluntary, of donation to the association, to
the own passion or to the Classical culture in general is not
enough. What we have to understand is that if we offer good and
serious services to our paying members, we'ld more and more
assiduii. This is a basilar rule of the no-profit marketing.
This reasonament could be applied to all the matters of our
organization. Maybe the majority of the citizens doesn't partecipe
in the list, doesn't put their voice, doesn't work for our Res
Publica because it find them not interesting or not useful for the
own passions. Maybe the lists are full only of the same 150 citizens
because our efforts are concentrated to take strictly what we have
and not to welcome new partecipants with more interesting services.

About the list of the illustri names that you have done, I think
that NR must to give honour and prices to them. We have to consider
them not the normality, we have to consider them our excellent
citizens and we have to give importance to the "sleeping" citizens
or capite censi.
What we're doing now? we're ignoring them, we think that they are
close to zero because they are silent and they give nothing to the
growth of teh organization and for this reason in our general
opinion they have no importance.
Wrong! they're important like any member (paying or not) of this
organization. The strong group of working people could organize and
manage our Res Publica but they will put in no more active citizens
because this group is closed and it doesn't look for needs of the
newbies.

Honestly our centralism is not working, we're loosing citizens and
it means that we're loosing taxes payers and we're loosing
opportunities to grow.
This kind of attitude whcih ignore the reasons of our absent growth,
is not useful. Because we must to be able and available to critic
ourself, to find the errors and their reasons and to correct them.
We must to break to think about the save of the Res Publica, we must
to begin to think about the growth and improvement of NR Inc.
We should start to be a member-oriented organization and not a
chiefs-oriented group!

This is my policy and I would like that many of us work about it.

Now, I'm not interesting how many message teh Gens Minia sent, I'm
not interesting how many Minians parteciped in the public
activities. I'm not interesting about the importance of this Gens.
They could be the last Gens of this organization, but I'm
interesting to know why they're leaving NR. Why they didn't
parteciped in the social life? If they were able to send a public
message, it means that maybe they were interested to work in NR.
What needs NR was unable to soddisfy?

We should take this questions anytime a citizens leave this
organization.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,
>
> The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens seemingly
> under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on that
> province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of

Canada

> Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from a

member

> of his gens and our province complaining about how awful things

were

> in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.
>
> Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus,

Senator

> Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit or
> resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious blow to

Res

> Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off and on
> with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
> dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help build NR
> and they stay around through thick and thin putting their time,
> effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I have
> with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they

contribute

> nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no responsibilities,
> lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and swan

song,

> one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find their
> own nitch or kingdom.
>
> This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you know,

my

> wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
> Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused that

our

> harshist critics and detractors are those people which have done

the

> least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up chairs
> and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems within
> the organization. I can think of many other organizations and

clubs

> that have this same problem.
>
> I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had failed

as

> artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so hard for

NR

> and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens but
> those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then

damning

> NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations as a
> joke and treat them accordingly.
>
> Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> > sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with boring
> > tonsillits.
> > I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the
> efforts
> > by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the

Propraetor

> > Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.
> >
> > However I offer you another important answer coming from this

last

> > event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> > Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we all
> should
> > ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.
> >
> > If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar group,
> it
> > means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe
> sometimes
> > we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
> >
> > Any opinion is welcome.
> >
> > Valete
> > Fr.Apulus Caesar
> > Senior Consul

Salvete omnibus

Well, I wonder. I applied for citizenship weeks ago. Apart from an email at
the beginning of March telling me that my name choice was unacceptable (and
which I then amended), I have heard nothing since.

If you really want interested, committed and dedicated citizens, I would
have thought the courtesy of at least a reply by now would have been
forthcoming. If prospective citizens are ignored, no wonder people wish to
leave and set up elsewhere.

Peter



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
Sent: 19 April 2005 16:58
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Please stop the joking, we need Provincia Gallia!




Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,

The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens seemingly
under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on that
province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of Canada
Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from a member
of his gens and our province complaining about how awful things were
in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.

Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus, Senator
Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit or
resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious blow to Res
Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off and on
with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help build NR
and they stay around through thick and thin putting their time,
effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I have
with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they contribute
nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no responsibilities,
lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and swan song,
one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find their
own nitch or kingdom.

This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you know, my
wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused that our
harshist critics and detractors are those people which have done the
least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up chairs
and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems within
the organization. I can think of many other organizations and clubs
that have this same problem.

I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had failed as
artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so hard for NR
and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens but
those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then damning
NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations as a
joke and treat them accordingly.

Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.


Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
> sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with boring
> tonsillits.
> I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the

efforts

> by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the Propraetor
> Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.
>
> However I offer you another important answer coming from this last
> event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we all

should

> ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.
>
> If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar group,

it

> means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe

sometimes

> we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
>
> Any opinion is welcome.
>
> Valete
> Fr.Apulus Caesar
> Senior Consul

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Francisco Apulo omnibusque sal.

> About the list of the illustri names that you have
> done, I think
> that NR must to give honour and prices to them. We
> have to consider
> them not the normality, we have to consider them our
> excellent
> citizens and we have to give importance to the
> "sleeping" citizens
> or capite censi.

During last year's constitutional discussions we
talked about the idea of changing the nature of the
ordo equester. The suggestion was to make this ordo a
sort of order of merit (like the British O.B.E. - I'm
sure other countries have similar things), so that at
every census the censores can recognize the
contribution of ordinary citizens by making them
equites.

The grant of equestrian status could recognize many
different types of contribution, including the
contributions which are currently unrewarded - local
and provincial activity, activity in sodalitates, and
so on. Provincial governors could recommend people to
the censores, so that people can be recognized who
don't participate in central life.

Of course, the simple title "eques" may not seem like
much of a reward, but it might be a start along the
lines you suggest. A very small lex could make this
change in time for the next census.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Salve Consul Fr. Apule Caesar,

Thank you for your quick response to my letter. I will study your
point of view but I will wait for more citizens to share their
thoughts with us before I make any more comments.

Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Illustrus Paulinus,
> honestly I fully disagree. Why? Because you as a group of citizens
> think what citizens could do or give to our Res Publica and not

what

> our organization (a real no-profit organization in the world) is
> offering to its members.
> I thought ever that if a gentleman pay to be member of a groups

the

> only reasons of the voluntary, of donation to the association, to
> the own passion or to the Classical culture in general is not
> enough. What we have to understand is that if we offer good and
> serious services to our paying members, we'ld more and more
> assiduii. This is a basilar rule of the no-profit marketing.
> This reasonament could be applied to all the matters of our
> organization. Maybe the majority of the citizens doesn't partecipe
> in the list, doesn't put their voice, doesn't work for our Res
> Publica because it find them not interesting or not useful for the
> own passions. Maybe the lists are full only of the same 150

citizens

> because our efforts are concentrated to take strictly what we have
> and not to welcome new partecipants with more interesting services.
>
> About the list of the illustri names that you have done, I think
> that NR must to give honour and prices to them. We have to

consider

> them not the normality, we have to consider them our excellent
> citizens and we have to give importance to the "sleeping" citizens
> or capite censi.
> What we're doing now? we're ignoring them, we think that they are
> close to zero because they are silent and they give nothing to the
> growth of teh organization and for this reason in our general
> opinion they have no importance.
> Wrong! they're important like any member (paying or not) of this
> organization. The strong group of working people could organize

and

> manage our Res Publica but they will put in no more active

citizens

> because this group is closed and it doesn't look for needs of the
> newbies.
>
> Honestly our centralism is not working, we're loosing citizens and
> it means that we're loosing taxes payers and we're loosing
> opportunities to grow.
> This kind of attitude whcih ignore the reasons of our absent

growth,

> is not useful. Because we must to be able and available to critic
> ourself, to find the errors and their reasons and to correct them.
> We must to break to think about the save of the Res Publica, we

must

> to begin to think about the growth and improvement of NR Inc.
> We should start to be a member-oriented organization and not a
> chiefs-oriented group!
>
> This is my policy and I would like that many of us work about it.
>
> Now, I'm not interesting how many message teh Gens Minia sent, I'm
> not interesting how many Minians parteciped in the public
> activities. I'm not interesting about the importance of this Gens.
> They could be the last Gens of this organization, but I'm
> interesting to know why they're leaving NR. Why they didn't
> parteciped in the social life? If they were able to send a public
> message, it means that maybe they were interested to work in NR.
> What needs NR was unable to soddisfy?
>
> We should take this questions anytime a citizens leave this
> organization.
>
> Valete
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Senior Consul
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus

(Michael

> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,
> >
> > The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens seemingly
> > under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on that
> > province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of
> Canada
> > Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from a
> member
> > of his gens and our province complaining about how awful things
> were
> > in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.
> >
> > Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus,
> Senator
> > Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit or
> > resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious blow to
> Res
> > Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off and on
> > with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
> > dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help build

NR

> > and they stay around through thick and thin putting their time,
> > effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I have
> > with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they
> contribute
> > nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no

responsibilities,

> > lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and swan
> song,
> > one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find

their

> > own nitch or kingdom.
> >
> > This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you know,
> my
> > wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
> > Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused that
> our
> > harshist critics and detractors are those people which have done
> the
> > least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up

chairs

> > and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems

within

> > the organization. I can think of many other organizations and
> clubs
> > that have this same problem.
> >
> > I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had

failed

> as
> > artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so hard

for

> NR
> > and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens but
> > those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then
> damning
> > NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations as a
> > joke and treat them accordingly.
> >
> > Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.
> >
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC"

<sacro_barese_impero@l...>

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with boring
> > > tonsillits.
> > > I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the
> > efforts
> > > by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the
> Propraetor
> > > Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.
> > >
> > > However I offer you another important answer coming from this
> last
> > > event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> > > Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we all
> > should
> > > ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.
> > >
> > > If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar

group,

> > it
> > > means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe
> > sometimes
> > > we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
> > >
> > > Any opinion is welcome.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > > Fr.Apulus Caesar
> > > Senior Consul

Salve Peter,

Peter Bird wrote:

> I applied for citizenship weeks ago. Apart from an email at
> the beginning of March telling me that my name choice was unacceptable (and
> which I then amended), I have heard nothing since.

I shall look into this immediately. Have you written to either Censor
Quintilianus or myself about this? I know I haven't received any
messages from you but I also appreciate that e-mail sometimes goes missing.

In any case, I shall make sure you get a prompt reply from the Rogators
about the status of your citizenship application.

Vale,

-- Marinus

And thank you for serving as Flamen Cerealis!!

Valete;

Gaius Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 4/19/2005 1:27:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Patrick.Owen@... writes:

This ritual is performed on the closing day of the Ludi Cerealia AVC
2758. I express my sincere gratitude to the Plebeian Aediles—S.
Labienus Cicero and Manius Constantinus Serapio-for organizing this
Ludi.

I also wish to express my thanks to M. Cassius Julianus, G. Iulius
Scaurus, G. Modius Athansios, Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus, Patricia
Cassia, Antonius Gryllus Graecus, G. Minucius Hadrianus, and L.
Arminius Faustus for all they have done to help restore the Religio
Romana and the Cult of the Goddess Ceres.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE OMNES !

This is my opinion :

The first problem is in provinces. If there the local magistrates
don't come with something interesting for citizens, all of they, in
time, will go on.
It's a matter of ability to give them, what they want to find. They
want to know, they want to be active in different activities. Why ?
Because they are comfortably, at the beginning, with provincial
mailing lists, where they can talk in their native language, where
they can ask about everything without the risk to transform that in
a joke. The provinces represent the first place where a citizen can
understand what NR real represent. I remember very well the days
when I come in NR. I don't understand nothing from the NR ML. I
study all alone. And in that days, belive me, how I want to have
someone closer to explain what is really happen ! At the end of
january the paterfamilias of the gens disapear. One of they, of
course, don't do anything, but another was dedicated. It was my case
in Iulii, where Iulius Caesar was like a theacher. It's important
from a citizen to be sui iuris, but when ? When is ready for that.
What it means to be ready ? To know, that it means, and to be able
to do the same for another who will come.
In the same time, NR ML has an inertial existence. Here I find only
the very dedicated citizens. For they is simple. But what the
beginner can do here ? What they can talk with all who have
experience, and forgot from where they start ? In the same time is
not the very dedicated citizens duty to do that. A lot of they, like
Senator Audens, already have a lot of work. NR it means only max. 50
citizens ?
For that I sustain my opinion, that, the problems come from
provinces.

OPTIME VALE,
IVL SABINVS



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

>
> Salve Consul Fr. Apule Caesar,
>
> Thank you for your quick response to my letter. I will study your
> point of view but I will wait for more citizens to share their
> thoughts with us before I make any more comments.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Illustrus Paulinus,
> > honestly I fully disagree. Why? Because you as a group of

citizens

> > think what citizens could do or give to our Res Publica and not
> what
> > our organization (a real no-profit organization in the world) is
> > offering to its members.
> > I thought ever that if a gentleman pay to be member of a groups
> the
> > only reasons of the voluntary, of donation to the association,

to

> > the own passion or to the Classical culture in general is not
> > enough. What we have to understand is that if we offer good and
> > serious services to our paying members, we'ld more and more
> > assiduii. This is a basilar rule of the no-profit marketing.
> > This reasonament could be applied to all the matters of our
> > organization. Maybe the majority of the citizens doesn't

partecipe

> > in the list, doesn't put their voice, doesn't work for our Res
> > Publica because it find them not interesting or not useful for

the

> > own passions. Maybe the lists are full only of the same 150
> citizens
> > because our efforts are concentrated to take strictly what we

have

> > and not to welcome new partecipants with more interesting

services.

> >
> > About the list of the illustri names that you have done, I think
> > that NR must to give honour and prices to them. We have to
> consider
> > them not the normality, we have to consider them our excellent
> > citizens and we have to give importance to the "sleeping"

citizens

> > or capite censi.
> > What we're doing now? we're ignoring them, we think that they

are

> > close to zero because they are silent and they give nothing to

the

> > growth of teh organization and for this reason in our general
> > opinion they have no importance.
> > Wrong! they're important like any member (paying or not) of this
> > organization. The strong group of working people could organize
> and
> > manage our Res Publica but they will put in no more active
> citizens
> > because this group is closed and it doesn't look for needs of

the

> > newbies.
> >
> > Honestly our centralism is not working, we're loosing citizens

and

> > it means that we're loosing taxes payers and we're loosing
> > opportunities to grow.
> > This kind of attitude whcih ignore the reasons of our absent
> growth,
> > is not useful. Because we must to be able and available to

critic

> > ourself, to find the errors and their reasons and to correct

them.

> > We must to break to think about the save of the Res Publica, we
> must
> > to begin to think about the growth and improvement of NR Inc.
> > We should start to be a member-oriented organization and not a
> > chiefs-oriented group!
> >
> > This is my policy and I would like that many of us work about it.
> >
> > Now, I'm not interesting how many message teh Gens Minia sent,

I'm

> > not interesting how many Minians parteciped in the public
> > activities. I'm not interesting about the importance of this

Gens.

> > They could be the last Gens of this organization, but I'm
> > interesting to know why they're leaving NR. Why they didn't
> > parteciped in the social life? If they were able to send a

public

> > message, it means that maybe they were interested to work in NR.
> > What needs NR was unable to soddisfy?
> >
> > We should take this questions anytime a citizens leave this
> > organization.
> >
> > Valete
> > Fr. Apulus Caesar
> > Senior Consul
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> (Michael
> > Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,
> > >
> > > The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens

seemingly

> > > under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on

that

> > > province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of
> > Canada
> > > Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from a
> > member
> > > of his gens and our province complaining about how awful

things

> > were
> > > in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.
> > >
> > > Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus,
> > Senator
> > > Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit or
> > > resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious blow

to

> > Res
> > > Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off and

on

> > > with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
> > > dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help build
> NR
> > > and they stay around through thick and thin putting their

time,

> > > effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I

have

> > > with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they
> > contribute
> > > nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no
> responsibilities,
> > > lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and swan
> > song,
> > > one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find
> their
> > > own nitch or kingdom.
> > >
> > > This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you

know,

> > my
> > > wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
> > > Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused

that

> > our
> > > harshist critics and detractors are those people which have

done

> > the
> > > least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up
> chairs
> > > and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems
> within
> > > the organization. I can think of many other organizations and
> > clubs
> > > that have this same problem.
> > >
> > > I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had
> failed
> > as
> > > artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so hard
> for
> > NR
> > > and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens

but

> > > those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then
> > damning
> > > NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations as

a

> > > joke and treat them accordingly.
> > >
> > > Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC"
> <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > > sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with

boring

> > > > tonsillits.
> > > > I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated the
> > > efforts
> > > > by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the
> > Propraetor
> > > > Galliae, we need now the activities of this great Provincia.
> > > >
> > > > However I offer you another important answer coming from

this

> > last
> > > > event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> > > > Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we

all

> > > should
> > > > ask to ourself why we have important resignation each month.
> > > >
> > > > If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar
> group,
> > > it
> > > > means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors, maybe
> > > sometimes
> > > > we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
> > > >
> > > > Any opinion is welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Valete
> > > > Fr.Apulus Caesar
> > > > Senior Consul

Salvete,

By Ceres almight, I really got tears on eyes by seeing by bad written
poem reminded!

Valete,
L. Arminius Faustus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
<Patrick.Owen@s...> wrote:

>
> This ode was written by L. Arminius Faustus who was one of the
> Plebeian Aediles during the Ludi Cerealia, AVC 2756.
>
> I Sing the Tears of Ceres
> — L. Faustus
>
> I sing the tears of Mother Ceres
> Without sleep, mourning on Olympus High Peaks,
> Missing beloved Core,
> Kidnapped on the deep Hades
> By the Invisible God in love
> - Tricks of cheerful Venus
> That not even brings happiness to the hearts
> Of Mortals and Gods.
>
> Sicily noble lands
> Springly ever flourishing lands
> Valley of the River Ena
> Core and the nimphs used to play
> Like infant kids
> Their innocent tricks.
>
> Hear a strange noise?
> The basement of Earth shakes
> Open its dark mounth
> Then from the deepest
> Come the God gloriously
> His chariot of blackest horses
> Shining on ultmost bright gold
>
> Strong but soft arms caught the virgin
> (Because father Pluto wasn´t so used
> To court and love´s ways)
> Why, Muses, the King of Hades
> Tried a so desesperated measure?
> He felt a pain on his heart
> Neither nectar our sweetest ambrosia
> Haven´t taken out that suffering as well.
> Core! He painly desires his niece
> Ceres should had undestand
> (Thought the almigh Lord of the Deads)
> For a brother a daughter she shouldn´t deny!
>
> As the golden chariot descended on darkness
> Core, on despair, cried for the Mother.
> But the Illustrious Klymenos touching the beloved girl
> Felt a kind of peace and pleasure
> Like a warm wind shaking the flowers
> On the bessed valleys of Arcadia
> Our when the nimphs sings
> On the sacred Idean florest of the Mother of Gods.
>
> While the cave faded the cries of the girl
> Core realized a mourning on their ears
> The Invisible King was talking to her
> Strange speech for the Lord of the Deads
>
> ´May you loves or hates me
> I really don´t care now
> On the name of my ciclopian helmet
> Or even of the Stigian River
> Ceres can do all noise on Olympus
> Standing on the knee of Themis
> Can even Iove threats me
> Or the gods, on assembly, coming here
> Triyng to change my mind
> I shall not abandon you!
> Be my Queen, Core beloved,
> Like the your mother´s seeds
> That sleeps waiting to grown
> On the edge of my reign!´
>
> This ode is posted on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova Roma
> by the Flamen Cerealis that the Goddess will grant us all

blessings,

> full fields, and bountiful harvests.

AVETE OMNES

The Carthaginians are running away! Rome won! Hannibal is now
leaving Italy and is going to Africa.
Well done!

But now we're going to find out who has been the most valiant
participant of "Battle against Carthago"! ;-)

Let me remind you the results of the first part of the game:

Titus Iulius Sabinus: 42 points
Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus : 1 point
Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana : 0 points
Lucia Cassia Silvana : 0 points
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis : 0 points

And now let's talk about the second part of the game.
HOW MANY WORDS!!! There were much more words than I thought! You
certainly did a great job! :-)
Here below you can read those which I put on purpose in the picture
(but you found many more):

Academia, Aequitas, Ager, Album, Amor, Antiquo, Aquila, Augur,
Auriga, Calendarium, Centuria, Cerealia, Certamen, Cista, Civis,
Cohors, Collis, Comitia, Conventus, Deus, Dictator, Dies, Dignitas,
Diribitor, Domus, Edictum, Emancipatio, Equester, Falernus, Familia,
Fides, Forum, Genius, Gens, Gladius, Historia, Humanitas, Idus,
Imperium, Index, Industria, Intercessio, Lararium, Lares, Legio,
Lingua, Maius, Martius, Mater, Munera, Municipium, Nomen, Omen,
Omnes, Oppidum, Ordo, Parilia, Perduellio, Pietas, Plebs, Pontifex,
Post, Potestas, Praenomen, Praetor, Provincia, Quaestor, Religio,
Reus, Rogator, Salus, Salve, Saturnalia, Scriba, Senatus, Sodalitas,
Spes, Templum, Toga, Tunica, Urbs, Venationes, Viator, Virtus


The results of the second part of the game:

Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 words
Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 words
Titus Iulius Sabinus: 60 words
Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 words
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis: 56 words
Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana: 41 words
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 40 words


Therefore the final results of "Battle against Carthago" are:

1-TITUS IULIUS SABINUS: 102 points

2-Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 points

3-Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 points

4-Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 points

5-Lucius Rutilius Minervalis 56 points

6-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 41 points
6-Servia Iuliua Caesaris Metelliana: 41 points

7-Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points


Titus Iulius Sabinus is the winner of "Battle against Carthago"!!!!

My congratulations to Flavia Tullia Scholastica as well on her
outstanding result in the second part of the game! :-)


OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

Salve!

It seems as if the Censorial Scriba that handles your case has never
got any mail back from You about your corrected name. Have You
written to her to remind her? This could be a case of mails
disappearing. The work of my Cohors usually is very swift and
effective, but I am sorry that You have had problems.

I am looking into this and hope that this will be solved soon. Please
contact me on my private address if You don't hear from Fausta soon.

>Salvete omnibus
>
>Well, I wonder. I applied for citizenship weeks ago. Apart from an email at
>the beginning of March telling me that my name choice was unacceptable (and
>which I then amended), I have heard nothing since.
>
>If you really want interested, committed and dedicated citizens, I would
>have thought the courtesy of at least a reply by now would have been
>forthcoming. If prospective citizens are ignored, no wonder people wish to
>leave and set up elsewhere.
>
>Peter

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

AVETE OMNES

Here we are. We are about to discover the winner of the last game of
these Ludi Ceriales.

The answer to the seventh sentence was "Marcus Tullius Tiro", the
slave, secretary, adviser, and later freedman of Marcus Tullius
Cicero, from whom he took his first two names when he was
manumitted. He is perhaps best known for the invention of Tironian
Shorthand, or "Notae Tironianae", a secretary's shorthand used in
the transcription of Cicero's speeches. It apparently consisted
mostly of abbreviations for prepositions and case endings.

Now we just have to discover who is the winner of "De Romanis
Illustribus"!

The final results are:

1-PUBLIUS CONSTANTINUS PLACIDUS – 14 points

2-Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana – 13 points

3-Caius Sentius Maximianus Caesar – 12 points
3-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus – 12 points
3-Julilla Sempronia Magna – 12 points

4-Titus Iulius Sabinus – 11 points

5-Lucia Cassia Silvana – 10 points
5-Sextus Apollonius Scipio – 10 points
5-Lucius Rutilius Minervalis – 10 points

6-Caius Ianus Flaminius – 8 points
6-Marcus Arminius Maior – 8 points
6-Flavia Tullia Scholastica – 8 points

7-Marcus Iulius Perusianus – 6 points

8-Gaius Equitius Cato – 5 points

9-Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius – 4 points

10-Servia Adriana Marcella – 2 points
10-Marca Hortensia Maior – 2 points

11-Marcus Cassius Peregrinus – 1 point


Publius COnstantinus Placidus is the winner of "De Romanis
Illustribus"!!!!
My congratulations on an outstanding victory!!!

We must admit Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana has also been a very
good opponent!

Thank you to all the participants of "De Romanis Illustribus"!!!


OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

AVETE OMNES

-Winner of the Chariot Races: TIBERIUS ANNAEUS OTHO

-Winner of "Battle against Carthago": TITUS IULIUS SABINUS
(winner of the 2nd part of "Battle against Carthago": FLAVIA TULLIA
SCHOLASTICA)

-Winner of "De Romanis Illustribus": PUBLIUS CONSTANTINUS PLACIDUS


After announcing the winners of the games of this year, I hereby
declare the Ludi Ceriales closed.

With these Ludi I had two main intentions. The first one was to
offer the citizens some new kind of game which had never been
offered before. Hence the double game "Battle against Carthago" and,
in some way, "De Romanis Illustribus". Anyway I kept the chariot
races because today they are a tradition in Nova Roma, and because
they have been a tradition of the Ludi Ceriales since their
introduction in ancient Rome.
My second intention was to extend the Ludi and their spirit to as
many citizens as possible. For this reason maybe we had less games
as a whole than in the Ludi of the past years, but they have been
held in three languages, i.e. English, French and Italian. I think
this should be improved in the next games, and I for one will do my
best to add new languages in the next Ludi I shall organize, i.e.
the Ludi Plebei in November.

These were small games, but if it's true that "Ceres is pleased with
little, if it's pure in kind", as Ovid says, I hope Ceres will
appreciate our efforts.

I hope you all enjoyed the Ludi Ceriales.
Thank you to the participants, and thank you to our Flamen Cerialis
for his posts and his rituals on Nova Roma's behalf.

May Ceres smile upon us!

OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

So beautifully moving! Thank you for sharing.

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
> <Patrick.Owen@s...> wrote:
> >
> > This ode was written by L. Arminius Faustus who was one of the
> > Plebeian Aediles during the Ludi Cerealia, AVC 2756.
> >
> > I Sing the Tears of Ceres
> > — L. Faustus
> >
> > I sing the tears of Mother Ceres
> > Without sleep, mourning on Olympus High Peaks,
> > Missing beloved Core,
> > Kidnapped on the deep Hades
> > By the Invisible God in love

Salvete Omnes,

as this subject goes bigger, I would like to explain what happened with part of the Gens
Minia. However, it might not put any light on the problem NR might have to get and keep
citizens.

The Gens Minia is very numerous in Gallia (25 on 89 citizens) and 9 of them were in the
government.

When they joined, they present themselves as being true Romans, expressing their
Romanitas on the daily basis in the macroworld. We all had high expectations and we
started some ambitious projects that were conducted by my predecessor.

Unfortunately, almost three years later, we have not got any tangible work done despite
agreements on the goals and the means.

When I took office two weeks ago, I asked to see the projects. The only thing I got is
nine resignations. When I asked for some explanations, I did not get anything I consider
acceptable in the sense that, because an office in NR is subject to an oath to the Gods,
a resignation should have a serious reason.

I came to the conclusion that the resigning citizens did not have the same ideas about
expressing Romanitas and that they were not happy in NR.

In such a situation, it is better to let them go. At least, we all tried to make it
together. It simply did not work.

I will make a precise report to the Senate anytime soon.

Optime valete,



Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide

Salvete,

I would like here to thank for the work that has been put in these wonderful games.
I cannot wait for the next ones...

Valete,

> These were small games, but if it's true that "Ceres is pleased with
> little, if it's pure in kind", as Ovid says, I hope Ceres will
> appreciate our efforts.
>
> I hope you all enjoyed the Ludi Ceriales.
> Thank you to the participants, and thank you to our Flamen Cerialis
> for his posts and his rituals on Nova Roma's behalf.
>
> May Ceres smile upon us!
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Aedilis Plebis
>
>
>
>
>

Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve! I, for one, had alot of fun with these games. I didn't think
they were "small" at all and I know you put alot of time into them
(just keeping track of everyone's answers by email and posting results
daily were laudable feats in themselves). Most importantly, I learned
things (such as "arenum" isn't a Latin word & instinct is often right
when considering "Cornelia" over "Magna Mater," LOL). Thank you for
the considerable amount of time and effort you spent these past few
days to provide us with these festivities! -Lucia Cassia Silvana

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:

> These were small games, but if it's true that "Ceres is pleased with
> little, if it's pure in kind", as Ovid says, I hope Ceres will
> appreciate our efforts.
> I hope you all enjoyed the Ludi Ceriales.
> Thank you to the participants, and thank you to our Flamen Cerialis
> for his posts and his rituals on Nova Roma's behalf.
> May Ceres smile upon us!
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Aedilis Plebis

> I would like here to thank for the work that has
> been put in these wonderful games.
> I cannot wait for the next ones...

Don't worry, there isn't long to wait - the Floralia
begin in a little over a week :)

Livia

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

SALVE ILLUSTRE SERAPIO !

Thank you very much for this Ludi. As always, you oblige us. Now we
must find the way to do, in the next Ludi, something to be at the
same level. That it means progress !
It was the first Ludi where I was participating. I have another
vision about Roman Religion and I understand what Hortensia Maior
said, when she explain me, that, the games represent a part of the
religious celebration. You have realized the both intention, and
indeed Ludi Ceriales was a great religious ceremony and a
interesting experience thanks your new kind of games.
What I can say like a winner of " Battle against Carthago " ?
Nova Romani, don't worry, the ROMAN LIMES still have good swords and
good arms !

OPTIME VALE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:

>
> AVETE OMNES
>
> -Winner of the Chariot Races: TIBERIUS ANNAEUS OTHO
>
> -Winner of "Battle against Carthago": TITUS IULIUS SABINUS
> (winner of the 2nd part of "Battle against Carthago": FLAVIA

TULLIA

> SCHOLASTICA)
>
> -Winner of "De Romanis Illustribus": PUBLIUS CONSTANTINUS PLACIDUS
>
>
> After announcing the winners of the games of this year, I hereby
> declare the Ludi Ceriales closed.
>
> With these Ludi I had two main intentions. The first one was to
> offer the citizens some new kind of game which had never been
> offered before. Hence the double game "Battle against Carthago"

and,

> in some way, "De Romanis Illustribus". Anyway I kept the chariot
> races because today they are a tradition in Nova Roma, and because
> they have been a tradition of the Ludi Ceriales since their
> introduction in ancient Rome.
> My second intention was to extend the Ludi and their spirit to as
> many citizens as possible. For this reason maybe we had less games
> as a whole than in the Ludi of the past years, but they have been
> held in three languages, i.e. English, French and Italian. I think
> this should be improved in the next games, and I for one will do

my

> best to add new languages in the next Ludi I shall organize, i.e.
> the Ludi Plebei in November.
>
> These were small games, but if it's true that "Ceres is pleased

with

> little, if it's pure in kind", as Ovid says, I hope Ceres will
> appreciate our efforts.
>
> I hope you all enjoyed the Ludi Ceriales.
> Thank you to the participants, and thank you to our Flamen

Cerialis

> for his posts and his rituals on Nova Roma's behalf.
>
> May Ceres smile upon us!
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Aedilis Plebis

Salve,

My congratulations to the T. Iulius Sabinus, and to Flavia Tullia
Scholastica for nearly pulling off an impossible come from behind
win.

The Carthaginians will be removed from the website shortly.

I think we owe Manius Constantinus Serapio a round of applause (what
is the emoticon for clapping?) for putting on a game for the Ludi
Ceriales that to my knowledge had never been done before. Since I
knew where they were all hidden on the website I was disqualified
from competing, but I thank him for allowing me to have some part in
this never been done before competition.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<mcserapio@y...> wrote:

>
> AVETE OMNES
>
> The Carthaginians are running away! Rome won! Hannibal is now
> leaving Italy and is going to Africa.
> Well done!
>
> But now we're going to find out who has been the most valiant
> participant of "Battle against Carthago"! ;-)
> Therefore the final results of "Battle against Carthago" are:
>
> 1-TITUS IULIUS SABINUS: 102 points
>
> 2-Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 points
>
> 3-Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 points
>
> 4-Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 points
>
> 5-Lucius Rutilius Minervalis 56 points
>
> 6-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 41 points
> 6-Servia Iuliua Caesaris Metelliana: 41 points
>
> 7-Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points
>
>
> Titus Iulius Sabinus is the winner of "Battle against Carthago"!!!!
>
> My congratulations to Flavia Tullia Scholastica as well on her
> outstanding result in the second part of the game! :-)

>

Salve, Quinte Cassi Calve, et salvete, omnes!

> Salve,
>
> My congratulations to the T. Iulius Sabinus, and to Flavia Tullia
> Scholastica for nearly pulling off an impossible come from behind
> win.
>

Plurimas gratias! Less than a day before the deadline for the word
game, I discovered that it WAS a word game, and not a Carthaginian hunt.
Every time I looked at the page, I saw more words, but ran out of time to do
a good job. Even so, second place isn't bad, considering time and other
factors.

> The Carthaginians will be removed from the website shortly.
>

Send them back to Africa, with their tails between their legs, and their
land amply salted!

> I think we owe Manius Constantinus Serapio a round of applause (what
> is the emoticon for clapping?) for putting on a game for the Ludi
> Ceriales that to my knowledge had never been done before. Since I
> knew where they were all hidden on the website I was disqualified
> from competing, but I thank him for allowing me to have some part in
> this never been done before competition.
>

One of my friends did a good job of Carthaginian-hunting, but didn't
participate in the game. Even I found a couple, but figured that they had
already been located.

These were very interesting games--the word game appealed to us
language-oriented folk, and the soldier-hunting to the military types.
Bravo to MCS!

> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
> <mcserapio@y...> wrote:
>>
>> AVETE OMNES
>>
>> The Carthaginians are running away! Rome won! Hannibal is now
>> leaving Italy and is going to Africa.
>> Well done!
>>
>> But now we're going to find out who has been the most valiant
>> participant of "Battle against Carthago"! ;-)
>> Therefore the final results of "Battle against Carthago" are:
>>
>> 1-TITUS IULIUS SABINUS: 102 points
>>
>> 2-Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 points
>>
>> 3-Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 points
>>
>> 4-Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 points
>>
>> 5-Lucius Rutilius Minervalis 56 points
>>
>> 6-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 41 points
>> 6-Servia Iuliua Caesaris Metelliana: 41 points
>>
>> 7-Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points
>>
>>
>> Titus Iulius Sabinus is the winner of "Battle against Carthago"!!!!
>>
>> My congratulations to Flavia Tullia Scholastica as well on her
>> outstanding result in the second part of the game! :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Flavia Tullia Scholastica Manio Constantino Serapioni quiritibus, sociis,
peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.

> AVETE OMNES
>
> The Carthaginians are running away! Rome won! Hannibal is now
> leaving Italy and is going to Africa.
> Well done!

Get that reeking pest and his unwashed barbarian hordes out of our turf!

> But now we're going to find out who has been the most valiant
> participant of "Battle against Carthago"! ;-)
>
> Let me remind you the results of the first part of the game:
>
> Titus Iulius Sabinus: 42 points
> Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus : 1 point
> Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana : 0 points
> Lucia Cassia Silvana : 0 points
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis : 0 points
>
> And now let's talk about the second part of the game.
> HOW MANY WORDS!!! There were much more words than I thought! You
> certainly did a great job! :-)
> Here below you can read those which I put on purpose in the picture
> (but you found many more):
>

> Academia, Aequitas, Ager, Album, Amor, Antiquo, Aquila, Augur,
> Auriga, Calendarium, Centuria, Cerealia, Certamen, Cista, Civis,
> Cohors, Collis, Comitia, Conventus, Deus, Dictator, Dies, Dignitas,
> Diribitor, Domus, Edictum, Emancipatio, Equester, Falernus, Familia,
> Fides, Forum, Genius, Gens, Gladius, Historia, Humanitas, Idus,
> Imperium, Index, Industria, Intercessio, Lararium, Lares, Legio,
> Lingua, Maius, Martius, Mater, Munera, Municipium,

actually, 'municipium' was missing its final 'm'. . .which is why I
wrote 'municipi,' its genitive case.

> Nomen, Omen,
> Omnes, Oppidum, Ordo, Parilia, Perduellio, Pietas, Plebs, Pontifex,
> Post, Potestas, Praenomen, Praetor, Provincia, Quaestor, Religio,
> Reus, Rogator, Salus, Salve, Saturnalia, Scriba, Senatus, Sodalitas,
> Spes, Templum, Toga, Tunica, Urbs, Venationes, Viator, Virtus
>
>

For the edification of the citizenry, I'm going to list the words I
found, though many aren't in alphabetical order. I have, however, grouped
together words whose letters form several others. Several of the words are
grammatical forms (cases, elements of conjugations, thus requiring a
knowledge of Latin), and some are somewhat unusual.

aequitas, [and aequi, which I didn't get] album, amas, amor, boni,
cadem, cista, [and ista, also missed] cohors, colli, collis, comiti,
comitia, miti, mitia, deus, dita, dius, edictum, dictum, dictu, ictum, ictu,
Eidus [old form of Idus], Idus, eques, esto, exui, historia, historias,
fides, gladius, humani, humanitas, ilex, ille, iter, iugla, lararium,
larari, lues [plague, pest, misfortune], mater, municipi, Marti, arti, mens,
meri, mori, munera, [and era, missed, but didn't count] munio, nasu, natu,
nega, nemo, nomen, odit, oppidum, orat, orato, ordo, parilia, ilia, ponti,
pontifex, potestas, testas, testa, potes, stas [and pote, which I didn't
get], praetor, rara, reus, reti, Roma, scriba, salve, satin [colloquial for
satis-ne], sodalitas, litas, tabeam, tamen, templum, virtus.

I think I copied them all, but may have missed some, as I believe I did
between my first and second drafts. . .the clock was ticking fast. . .

'Illud' was almost there, but it was 'iilud,' which may have been a
typo--it's easy enough to do, but as is, it won't work.

In addition, there were several Latin words containing two or three
letters, which didn't qualify for the contest, but a partial list might
prove instructive: api, at, diu, do, dum, ei, et, fit, mas, mea, nam, ne,
num, par, pes, qui, sat, se, seu, sui, suo, sto, tu, vir, vix, uni, ut.

Some of these were repeated.

As noted in an earlier post, I had less than a day to do this. . .and am
surprised that I managed to find this many words in such a short time, for I
am not a game-oriented person, and rarely indulge. This, however, was quite
interesting.

> The results of the second part of the game:
>
> Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 words

You mean I won? Ohmigosh!

> Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 words
> Titus Iulius Sabinus: 60 words
> Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 words
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis: 56 words
> Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana: 41 words
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 40 words
>
>
> Therefore the final results of "Battle against Carthago" are:
>
> 1-TITUS IULIUS SABINUS: 102 points
>
> 2-Flavia Tullia Scholastica: 84 points
>
> 3-Lucius Vitellius Triarius: 69 points
>
> 4-Lucia Cassia Silvana: 57 points
>
> 5-Lucius Rutilius Minervalis 56 points
>
> 6-Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: 41 points
> 6-Servia Iuliua Caesaris Metelliana: 41 points
>
> 7-Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus: 3 points
>
>
> Titus Iulius Sabinus is the winner of "Battle against Carthago"!!!!
>
> My congratulations to Flavia Tullia Scholastica as well on her
> outstanding result in the second part of the game! :-)
>

Plurimas gratias!

>
> OPTIME VALETE
> Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Aedilis Plebis
>

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Salvete Cives Novaromani!

Excellent Ludi, I must say.

First, I congratulate all the participants of the games...even
Tiberius Annaeus Otho. I move that future "Dirty Tactics" for the
Circus events include sabotaging large statues of dieties, that is,
if disguised as a member of another Factio (LOL)!

>On the green steps, Tiberius Annaeus Otho has brought an enormous
>statue of Ceres.

I admire the innovation and cleverness of Otho's "Trojan Horse"
concept with the Ceres Statue...GREEKS COVERTLY PREPARING FOR ATTACK
concept replaced with SLAVES COVERTLY BLOWING RED PEPPER concept!
Hey, Just because Praesina is "the biggest and most popular" doesn't
guarantee a thing for the future...after all, I still have my string
amulet for Veneta!

>Velox Puteulanus is the first in the first curve. The blues
>shouts "Felix Celeris, Felix Celeris!" but the statue of Ceres
>trembles and Felix Celeris suffers a terrible sneeze-attack on the
>straight line. It´s incredible!! His sneezes are terrible!

My regards to Censor Marinus on his unfortunate chariot's accident in
the Quarters.

(Triarius thwaps his nephew, Vopiscus, on the side of the head for
his driver's unruly actions against the driver of the Illustrious
Censor's chariot...even though it was a legal tactic...I
mean "technically"...you know...)

I very much enjoyed the Battle of Carthago, even though I missed the
first part due to that nasty concept of work. I did go back
and "locate" the Carthaginians and found several very interesting and
informative pages on the NR website that I wasn't aware existed. This
part of the game was a very good "teaching" tool for organizational
information...at least for me.

(Triarius knows he will eventually tie in one of these Latin Word
games with Flavia Scholastica one day...maybe...just, maybe...oh,
probably not...)

Lastly, to the Honorable F. Galerius Aurelianus, the Flamen Cerealis
and BBMFRAAE, et al, for an eloquent series of ceremonial posts.

(BBMFRAAE: Big Boss-Magna Flume Regio-America Austrorientals)

As a new citizen this was my 2nd Ludi experience and, in many ways, a
completely different atmosphere from the first. I am looking forward
to future Ludi events and what they have to offer. Praises to all who
help organize these events! They can never be commended enough for
their Humanitas, Liberalitas, and Industria!

Ovid was correct and Ceres must be pleased...given the state of the
world today...such thoughts, efforts, and honors must surely be
pleasing.


Valete,

Triarius

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LVCIVS VITELLIVS TRIARIVS
Plebian, Magna Flumen Regio, America Austrorientalis
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/vitellia/
Owner, Factio Veneta Chariot Velox Puteulanus Sors
Owner of the Gladiator Superstes
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu."
"The important thing isn't how long you live,
but how well you live" - L. Annaeus Seneca

Salvete Cives Provincia Gallia!

In light of the Gens Minia issue, I urge each civis of Gallia to
introduce a friend to Nova Roma in the coming weeks. With the
absence of Gens Minia in Gallia, there are still over 30 Gens
represented in the provincia according to the Album Provinciae. If
each civis brought a friend to the Via Romana, this absence could be
corrected in a rather short time.

No, not every one is Assidui, and some are not active at all. Contact
them and invite them back to the Via Romana. This is Spring...the
time of rebirth and new life. It is a wonderful time to experience an
explosive growth in Gallia!

If you are not a member of the Provincial Government, contact your
Praetor and volunteer to do something, big or small, whatever you
can. I believe there are 9 vacancies now...or something like that I
read in a previous post.

It is a sad loss to loose so many members, and Rome lost Gallia the
first time. I urge you to support Praetor Sextus Apollonius Scipio so
that history does not repeat itself. Go and find 1, 3, or 5 friends
that share your love of all things Roman and give them this link:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/apply

Let's face it, Rome really wouldn't be fun at all without Gallia!

Valete,

Triarius

P.S. If you don't live in Gallia, but you know someone who does and
who shares your interests and/or passions for the Via Romana, I urge
you to send them the link, too.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Sextus Apollonius Scipio
<scipio_apollonius@y...> wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> as this subject goes bigger, I would like to explain what happened

with part of the Gens

> Minia. However, it might not put any light on the problem NR might

have to get and keep

> citizens.
>
> The Gens Minia is very numerous in Gallia (25 on 89 citizens) and 9

of them were in the

> government.
>
> When they joined, they present themselves as being true Romans,

expressing their

> Romanitas on the daily basis in the macroworld. We all had high

expectations and we

> started some ambitious projects that were conducted by my

predecessor.

>
> Unfortunately, almost three years later, we have not got any

tangible work done despite

> agreements on the goals and the means.
>
> When I took office two weeks ago, I asked to see the projects. The

only thing I got is

> nine resignations. When I asked for some explanations, I did not

get anything I consider

> acceptable in the sense that, because an office in NR is subject to

an oath to the Gods,

> a resignation should have a serious reason.
>
> I came to the conclusion that the resigning citizens did not have

the same ideas about

> expressing Romanitas and that they were not happy in NR.
>
> In such a situation, it is better to let them go. At least, we all

tried to make it

> together. It simply did not work.
>
> I will make a precise report to the Senate anytime soon.
>
> Optime valete,
>
>
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
>
> Propraetor Galliae
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
> http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide

Salve and thank you for replying.

I emailed back immediately to the same email address from which the message
came. Not wishing to be presumptive - especially if the scriba is
particularly busy - I did not press the matter but instead waited patiently.

To me, a teacher of Latin for more years than I care to remember, the whole
concept of Nova Roma seemed exciting and full of possibilities for the
future. I therefore joined the group to follow the postings from members. I
was exceptionally impressed - and still am - with the erudition and depth of
understanding of what Rome really meant and means today of Cato, whose
postings I follow with great interest. This led me to want to become a
citizen.

My basic point of view is that Rome is the foundation and fount of so many
elements of our current society (culture, arts, law, religion, language -
one could go on and on) that we ignore its values and its history at our
peril. In an age when "relevance" to modernity is all that counts for most
people (including particularly in the educational world) we need
groups/societies which will remind us of our real roots.

In case my original email was lost (as I know can happen) the text is as
follows:

"Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I got the names wrong - I had not
realised that there were lists for praenomina and cognomina as well. So I've
decided on the following:

praenomen = Sextus

cognomen = Barbatus



Apologies again - cum facie rubra

Peter Bird

Thank you again for taking this up.

Vale optime

Peter



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
Sent: 19 April 2005 21:29
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Cohors Censoris CFQ; Peter Bird
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Please stop the joking, we need Provincia
Gallia!



Salve!

It seems as if the Censorial Scriba that handles your case has never
got any mail back from You about your corrected name. Have You
written to her to remind her? This could be a case of mails
disappearing. The work of my Cohors usually is very swift and
effective, but I am sorry that You have had problems.

I am looking into this and hope that this will be solved soon. Please
contact me on my private address if You don't hear from Fausta soon.

>Salvete omnibus
>
>Well, I wonder. I applied for citizenship weeks ago. Apart from an email at
>the beginning of March telling me that my name choice was unacceptable (and
>which I then amended), I have heard nothing since.
>
>If you really want interested, committed and dedicated citizens, I would
>have thought the courtesy of at least a reply by now would have been
>forthcoming. If prospective citizens are ignored, no wonder people wish to
>leave and set up elsewhere.
>
>Peter

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Triarius,

The suggestions you make are quite good. I have to say though, that I have contacted all of the citizens in the Album Gentium more than once over the last 6 years and have gotten no responses. During my year as Tribune (2003) I held a monthly meeting in Tongeren and again, no Nova Romans showed up-- ever--. Luckily some of my Pagan friends came each week to keep me company.

One of the problems is language. Gallia is I think the only province that contains two totally different language groups: Dutch and French. Historically, the Dutch speakers who are part of NR Gallia were in Roman times in their separate province of Germania Inferior. At least once it was suggested that Germania Inferior be given its own province and the idea was shot to hell (I think this was at the end of 2000 or early 2001).

When emails are sent to Provincia Gallia, they are always in French with a fine attempt at an English translation. This leaves the Dutch speakers totally left out. Historically as well as currently, this is a sore point for Dutch speakers: no one ever learns our language and we always have to learn others language to communicate. When I sent emails to all the Gallians, I sent them in English and Dutch, again not ideal becuase then the French speakers are left out. and we all know how the French-- just like everyone else-- love to use there own language.

I realize that I am pessimistic as far as Gallia goes. Scipio was the Governor a few years back and nothing improved here. Rutilius took the job after my short stint as Governor and again nothing improved. I would be enthusiastic if there was a separate Germania Inferior Province. That said, I wish Sipio the best of luck in his newest stint as Governor of Gallia.

Vale,
Diana Octavia



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

I bookmarked this site.. http://www.kreiss.com/ which is a modern
furniture maker that has several good pieces that will fit into a
period house. They also have fine sheets and linens with excellent
period-hinted decoration. Several greek inspired as well as Roman
inspired.

Valete,
Annia Octavia Indagatrix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<curatrix@v...> wrote:

>
> I bookmarked this site a while back. They sell to dealers only, but
> there are several pieces that, while not strictly reproductions, are
> very tempting!
>
> http://www.accintl.com/c99.htm
>
> --
> Julilla Sempronia Magna

AVETE OMNES

Thank you everybody for your kind words. I'm glad that you enjoyed the
Ludi.
I wish to thank Quintus Cassius Calvus and Consul Franciscus Apulus
Caesar for helping me by placing all those Carthaginians on our
website.

OPTIME VALETE
M'C.Serapio
Aedilis Plebis

AVE OPTIMA FLAVIA TVLLIA

> actually, 'municipium' was missing its final 'm'. . .

I checked the picture just to be sure and I could read it. Look
carefully and you'll see the full word as well ;-)

OPTIME VALE
M'C.Serapio

Salve,

The same situation is also in Thule where we have Finnish being totally
different from close relatives of Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and
Icelandic (and then there are some small minority languages like Saame
and Greenlandish). We haven't attempted to use national languages in
our internal communications instead we usually write in English, except
some few cases when it has been faster to write a short note in
national language. But this doesn't of course change the situation in
Gallia any better.

Vale,

On 20.4.2005, at 14:32, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> One of the problems is language. Gallia is I think the only province
> that contains two totally different language groups: Dutch and French.


Caius Curius Saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

AVETE OMNES

Oh, and I can't forget to mention Quintus Salix Cantaber. I thank
him for calculating the results of the chariot races with his
software :-)

OPTIME VALETE
M'C.Serapio

> AVETE OMNES
>
> Thank you everybody for your kind words. I'm glad that you enjoyed

the

> Ludi.
> I wish to thank Quintus Cassius Calvus and Consul Franciscus

Apulus

> Caesar for helping me by placing all those Carthaginians on our
> website.
>
> OPTIME VALETE
> M'C.Serapio
> Aedilis Plebis

Salvete Omnes,
well, we have celebrated during the last weeks the Magna Mater and
Ceres and wee have done it in the best ways. Thank you very much to
our Aediles, Iulius Sulla and Constantinus Serapio, which organized
wonderful festivals. They recalled me the first Ludi organized by
Illustrus Quintilianus and me and I haven't see a so large number of
excellent activities and partecipants since many time.

Congratulations and thank you very much!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Seionr Consul

Salve Diana Octavia!

You bring up some very interesting points.

>At least once it was suggested that Germania Inferior be given its
>own province and the idea was shot to hell (I think this was at the
>end of 2000 or early 2001).

Since I was not a civis at that time, I am not familiar with those
arguments. I do not feel the need to go back and review any posts
concerning this, because the argument was probably valid at the
time. I am a fan of republican government and feel that it works if
allowed to, however, it is now important to realize a couple of
things concerning this action.

First, decisions to establish new boundaries for anything that
violate extremely long-standing boundaries on the lines of language
is a cardinal mistake. This is how the British Empire totally screwed
up Africa. I'm not a professional historian, but I do have a degree
in government and politics and have had many discussions with others
on this particular subject in political science. This is not
debatable. It simple has been proven time and time again to not work.

Second, a decision to split Gallia into two separate provinces along
these guidelines...in my opinion...lies predominantly on the thoughts
and feelings of the cives of the province. If it is not working, and
the general feeling amongst the cives is pretty much the same as
yours...and things stay the same...then, Gallia will probable stay
the same. Again, I feel that a previous decision of not allowing a
separate Germania Inferior may, as I have mentioned before, have been
part of the 7 employee company with a 4000 page employee manual
concept. What I mean by this is not an insult to the founders, but
rather, a well thought out concept for the future and a plan to grow
that concept effectively. If you have 7700 employees in facilities
worldwide, then a 4000 page employee manual system is no big deal.
If you have 7 employees, it can be. You have all the bases covered,
but it can be a problem. Starting from scratch in the beginning years
of anything is not pleasant. But, that was a few years ago. NR has
grown and progressed since then, and now...it is Springtime again.
The main thing to remember is that change, if not allowed to occur,
will guarantee that change will not occur.

When organizations first get started, like companies, they are a
reflection of their founders' interests and visions for the future.
As the entity grows, some things change and some do not. However,
some things most often HAVE to change, because they are not working
to their optimum or just simply are not working. When you have 2
cives in Western Europe, it is better to have 2 provinces. When you
have 4 people in your marketing department, maybe, it is better to
divide the duties up in to 4 different areas of market development,
advertising, promotions, public relations. When you have 40 people in
that department, maybe, it is better to have 4 separate departments
who work together. (Promo guys like to work with promo guys, and PR
gals like to work with PR gals...) I know this because I am the COO
of a chemical company that I helped start in 1996...I have SEEN IT
ALLLLLLL!!! And, as we say in the South (USA), "It Ain't Pretty!"

Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, the time was not right. Maybe it is now.
Maybe it is not. Time will tell. But, Time - Action = Lost Time.

>When emails are sent to Provincia Gallia, they are always in French
>with a fine attempt at an English translation. This leaves the Dutch
>speakers totally left out. Historically as well as currently, this
>is a sore point for Dutch speakers: no one ever learns our language
>and we always have to learn others language to communicate. When I
>sent emails to all the Gallians, I sent them in English and Dutch,
>again not ideal becuase then the French speakers are left out. and
>we all know how the French-- just like everyone else-- love to use
>there own language.

Maybe, at least until membership has grown enough to justify two
separate provinces, there should be two separate regios established
along language-based borders, each with a separate communications
through a Dutch-speaking Legate and a French-speaking Legate. Not in
the since as a "province-wide" institution, but individually working
under the same banner type of thing. In your case (Gallia), French-
wide or Dutch-wide communications see to me to probably be a waste of
bandwidth. Again, I think you are correct in your assessment of the
Gallia problems. Language barriers tend to annihilate political
processes. Look at the UN.

The main goal is to start things in Gallia to working again.
Recruiting, in my opinion again, large membership groups like the
Minia action, when you are small and trying to grow often results in
things like the Minia action. Organizations are most effectively
grown, built and sustained by increasing membership through personal
contacts and friendships over time. Leave the recruiting of other
Large Roman Organizations, Professional Pagan Cults, and others like
Minia for later on. That way, if they are a temporary thing that
contributes little to the advancement of the program, they will not
be missed or upset the balance of things if they do leave. In the US,
we call it "grass roots" politics...and it works.

As I have said before, I feel that NR will be built upon the
individual domus...not the Regio, not the Provincia, and not the Res
Publica...the Individual domus.

> I realize that I am pessimistic as far as Gallia goes.

Congratulations, so am I most of the time. Definition of Pessimist:
An Optimist with Experience. (I was a door gunner on a military
helicopter for a while...You develop a "if something bad hasn't
happened, it soon will" kind of attitude...helps you really learn to
identify problems and take corrective action before your day is
completely ruined...or shot to Hell!)

>I would be enthusiastic if there was a separate Germania Inferior

Province.

We will see! There could be no historical argument for its non-
existence.


Vale,

Triarius

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LVCIVS VITELLIVS TRIARIVS
Plebian, Magna Flumen Regio, America Austrorientalis
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/vitellia/
Owner, Factio Veneta Chariot Velox Puteulanus Sors
Owner of the Gladiator Superstes
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu."
"The important thing isn't how long you live,
but how well you live" - L. Annaeus Seneca
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tired of High Gas Prices and Emissions Problems?
http://www.myenergycel.com/emissions

Salve Illustrus Sabinus,

your is a good point, thank you for your contribution.
I agree that the Provincia have an important role in the recruitment
and management of the new citizens. It should give assistance,
virtual and real services, activities and infrastructures, etc. The
discussions and the improvement of the interests are easier if done
in the own language and they are the beginning of possible projects.

In this situation the resignment of the citizens is quite clear if
the Provincia doesn't assist them or it doesn't offer anything.

However we have two problems.
The first is that the Provincia should have the possibilities,
features and expert citizens to soddisfy the needs of the new
citizens. Sometimes this is possible, sometimes it's more hard,
quite impossible. Firstly for the young or "sleeping" Provinciae,
like Provincia Gallia, a great sleeping Provincia with hard problems
of languages and distances.
In this situation the central government should assist and help the
Provinciae creating services and infrastructures for any of them. We
all should understand that the Provinciae are the hearth of our
organization and move efforts to them.

Now the second problem. I take teh example of Provincia Italia or
Hispania. They're rwo very active and big Provinciae, with many
expert citizens and magistrates organizing live activites,
discussions, interests, etc.
But how many italian and spanish citizens are active in the public
social life of NR Inc.? How many are interesting to the activities
of the central goverment? I see very very few...
In Italy and Spain I see many skilled and professional members which
partecipe to the provincial discussions and activities but they're
not interesting in our international affairs. Why?
What I would mean is that the problem is not only in the Provinciae,
the problem is what NR Inc is offering to its own members, what are
the "points of attraction" and how it soddisfy the needs of the
citizens. In fact when the citizens exit from their own Provincia,
what they find? In my opinion they don't find interests attracting
them to the public and organizational life.
And so here we're even the same citizens working hardly for few
citizens and ignoring the new civis.

So IMHO we have the first 2 critical points:
1) the improvement of the Provinciae and of their activities
2) the improvement of the services offered by NR Inc. to its own
members.

What do you all think?

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@y...> wrote:

>
> SALVE OMNES !
>
> This is my opinion :
>
> The first problem is in provinces. If there the local magistrates
> don't come with something interesting for citizens, all of they,

in

> time, will go on.
> It's a matter of ability to give them, what they want to find.

They

> want to know, they want to be active in different activities.

Why ?

> Because they are comfortably, at the beginning, with provincial
> mailing lists, where they can talk in their native language, where
> they can ask about everything without the risk to transform that

in

> a joke. The provinces represent the first place where a citizen

can

> understand what NR real represent. I remember very well the days
> when I come in NR. I don't understand nothing from the NR ML. I
> study all alone. And in that days, belive me, how I want to have
> someone closer to explain what is really happen ! At the end of
> january the paterfamilias of the gens disapear. One of they, of
> course, don't do anything, but another was dedicated. It was my

case

> in Iulii, where Iulius Caesar was like a theacher. It's important
> from a citizen to be sui iuris, but when ? When is ready for that.
> What it means to be ready ? To know, that it means, and to be able
> to do the same for another who will come.
> In the same time, NR ML has an inertial existence. Here I find

only

> the very dedicated citizens. For they is simple. But what the
> beginner can do here ? What they can talk with all who have
> experience, and forgot from where they start ? In the same time is
> not the very dedicated citizens duty to do that. A lot of they,

like

> Senator Audens, already have a lot of work. NR it means only max.

50

> citizens ?
> For that I sustain my opinion, that, the problems come from
> provinces.
>
> OPTIME VALE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus

(Michael

> Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Consul Fr. Apule Caesar,
> >
> > Thank you for your quick response to my letter. I will study

your

> > point of view but I will wait for more citizens to share their
> > thoughts with us before I make any more comments.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC"

<sacro_barese_impero@l...>

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Illustrus Paulinus,
> > > honestly I fully disagree. Why? Because you as a group of
> citizens
> > > think what citizens could do or give to our Res Publica and

not

> > what
> > > our organization (a real no-profit organization in the world)

is

> > > offering to its members.
> > > I thought ever that if a gentleman pay to be member of a

groups

> > the
> > > only reasons of the voluntary, of donation to the association,
> to
> > > the own passion or to the Classical culture in general is not
> > > enough. What we have to understand is that if we offer good

and

> > > serious services to our paying members, we'ld more and more
> > > assiduii. This is a basilar rule of the no-profit marketing.
> > > This reasonament could be applied to all the matters of our
> > > organization. Maybe the majority of the citizens doesn't
> partecipe
> > > in the list, doesn't put their voice, doesn't work for our Res
> > > Publica because it find them not interesting or not useful for
> the
> > > own passions. Maybe the lists are full only of the same 150
> > citizens
> > > because our efforts are concentrated to take strictly what we
> have
> > > and not to welcome new partecipants with more interesting
> services.
> > >
> > > About the list of the illustri names that you have done, I

think

> > > that NR must to give honour and prices to them. We have to
> > consider
> > > them not the normality, we have to consider them our excellent
> > > citizens and we have to give importance to the "sleeping"
> citizens
> > > or capite censi.
> > > What we're doing now? we're ignoring them, we think that they
> are
> > > close to zero because they are silent and they give nothing to
> the
> > > growth of teh organization and for this reason in our general
> > > opinion they have no importance.
> > > Wrong! they're important like any member (paying or not) of

this

> > > organization. The strong group of working people could

organize

> > and
> > > manage our Res Publica but they will put in no more active
> > citizens
> > > because this group is closed and it doesn't look for needs of
> the
> > > newbies.
> > >
> > > Honestly our centralism is not working, we're loosing citizens
> and
> > > it means that we're loosing taxes payers and we're loosing
> > > opportunities to grow.
> > > This kind of attitude whcih ignore the reasons of our absent
> > growth,
> > > is not useful. Because we must to be able and available to
> critic
> > > ourself, to find the errors and their reasons and to correct
> them.
> > > We must to break to think about the save of the Res Publica,

we

> > must
> > > to begin to think about the growth and improvement of NR Inc.
> > > We should start to be a member-oriented organization and not a
> > > chiefs-oriented group!
> > >
> > > This is my policy and I would like that many of us work about

it.

> > >
> > > Now, I'm not interesting how many message teh Gens Minia sent,
> I'm
> > > not interesting how many Minians parteciped in the public
> > > activities. I'm not interesting about the importance of this
> Gens.
> > > They could be the last Gens of this organization, but I'm
> > > interesting to know why they're leaving NR. Why they didn't
> > > parteciped in the social life? If they were able to send a
> public
> > > message, it means that maybe they were interested to work in

NR.

> > > What needs NR was unable to soddisfy?
> > >
> > > We should take this questions anytime a citizens leave this
> > > organization.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > > Fr. Apulus Caesar
> > > Senior Consul
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > (Michael
> > > Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salvete Consul Fr. Aupule Caesar et omnes,
> > > >
> > > > The gens that left the province of Gallia is one gens
> seemingly
> > > > under the direction of one citizen and is no reflection on
> that
> > > > province. When we sent out a questionaire to the citizens of
> > > Canada
> > > > Occidentalis, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar got a good-bye note from

a

> > > member
> > > > of his gens and our province complaining about how awful
> things
> > > were
> > > > in NR and to strike his name off the list forever.
> > > >
> > > > Now if people like Manius Constantine Serapio, QFM, Scaurus,
> > > Senator
> > > > Audens & Pompeia to Censor Marinus and Pontifex Modius quit

or

> > > > resign I would feel very bad and consider this a serious

blow

> to
> > > Res
> > > > Publica. Why? Because whether one agrees or disagrees off

and

> on
> > > > with the likes of these citizens, we all see that they have
> > > > dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to help

build

> > NR
> > > > and they stay around through thick and thin putting their
> time,
> > > > effort and even money where their mouths are. The problem I
> have
> > > > with other citizens is that we never hear from them, they
> > > contribute
> > > > nothing to the lists, stay Capite Censi, hold no
> > responsibilities,
> > > > lift not a finger then suddenly trumpet a last hurrah and

swan

> > > song,
> > > > one of their main contributions to NR then disappear to find
> > their
> > > > own nitch or kingdom.
> > > >
> > > > This sort of situation is not unique to NR. As some of you
> know,
> > > my
> > > > wife has been helping to run our Mexican association here in
> > > > Alberta. People come and go but I am always greatly amused
> that
> > > our
> > > > harshist critics and detractors are those people which have
> done
> > > the
> > > > least to help and have done nothing from helping to set up
> > chairs
> > > > and tables or steam a tamale to helping to correct problems
> > within
> > > > the organization. I can think of many other organizations

and

> > > clubs
> > > > that have this same problem.
> > > >
> > > > I once heard it said that harsh critics are those that had
> > failed
> > > as
> > > > artists. I am not talking about those who have worked so

hard

> > for
> > > NR
> > > > and have earned respect for their opinions from our citizens
> but
> > > > those who slept in the shadows doing little or nothing then
> > > damning
> > > > NR once and for all. I cannot help but take such situations

as

> a
> > > > joke and treat them accordingly.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you Consul for the opportunity to speak on this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC"
> > <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > > > sorry for the late answer, I was at bed for a wekk with
> boring
> > > > > tonsillits.
> > > > > I fully agree with Censor Quintilianus and I appreciated

the

> > > > efforts
> > > > > by you all breaking the jokes. I add my support to the
> > > Propraetor
> > > > > Galliae, we need now the activities of this great

Provincia.

> > > > >
> > > > > However I offer you another important answer coming from
> this
> > > last
> > > > > event. Why the full Gens Minia resign from NR?
> > > > > Nobody looked for the reasons of this withdrawment and we
> all
> > > > should
> > > > > ask to ourself why we have important resignation each

month.

> > > > >
> > > > > If this gentlemen is leaving NR to create another similar
> > group,
> > > > it
> > > > > means in my opinion that we're falling in some errors,

maybe

> > > > sometimes
> > > > > we don't offer what they wait for from our Res Publica.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any opinion is welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Valete
> > > > > Fr.Apulus Caesar
> > > > > Senior Consul

Salvete Diana et omnes,

I do not think that different languages are is the main problem. In
Canada Occidentalis we just speak English and have 4 or 5 active
participants for the time being. On two occasions over the last year
I wrote to the other 35 + citizens as did one of my legates and only
got 2 replies. Our province is quite vast in area and inter
provincial flights cost as much as an overseas flight; its a 15 hour
drive to visit my friend Sertorius in the Winnepeg province and a 24
hour drive to get to our friends in the North West Territories etc.
This situation will have to be overcome in time and we need to get
active citizens who can operate and do projects within their own
jurisdictions.

Something I notice with so many volunteer organizations cultural to
the Churches is that more often than not, no matter what the number
of people, is that usually only a relatively small handful of people
do all the work and the majority just cruise along in the background
for the ride. This majority will come to the festivities, be
entertained then disappear until the next one and voice their
criticisms in the interim. I often ask these people to please come
to our meetings, voice their concerns and tell them that the
administration is more than happy to step aside, call elections and
let them do it if they have the wherewithall to do a better job...
you guessed it, total silence and no help! It is interesting what
the Propraetor of Gallia just mentioned. He contacted 9 people,
asked how the project was going, were they going to work now etc.
Suddenly he had 9 resignations. I vaguely remember Senator Audens
mentioning a few years ago that he would here from people who did
not like the way things were going in NR so he would entertain their
suggestions and give them some tasks to work on... again the totally
disappeared off the map.

Anyway I think you macro-military citizens have a saying that only
piss poor officers blame their men. I therefore think we should not
place blame on inactive or uninterested citizens for any stagnation
here in NR but accept the fact that the trend shall be that a
handful of dedicated people will be the backbone of NR, many others
wish to go along for a ride, be entertained but not be actively
involved. Since we accept this situation for the time being, the
doors of the administration should always be open a eagerly ready to
accept those who wish to help but at the same time the active
citizens should not cry, go to the baths and open their veins when
an inactive, uninterested citizen quits.

Finally, I have seen over the years that when organizations are
composed of too many, " What's in it for me? " type people and they
fare not to well in the long run. Perhaps it is better to have those
who say, " You get what you put into it."


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Poekie <poekiejr@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Triarius,
>
> The suggestio
















--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Poekie <poekiejr@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Triarius,
>
> The suggestions you make are quite good. I have to say though,
that I have contacted all of the citizens in the Album Gentium more
than once over the last 6 years and have gotten no responses. During
my year as Tribune (2003) I held a monthly meeting in Tongeren and
again, no Nova Romans showed up-- ever--. Luckily some of my Pagan
friends came each week to keep me company.
>
> One of the problems is language. Gallia is I think the only
province that contains two totally different language groups: Dutch
and French. Historically, the Dutch speakers who are part of NR
Gallia were in Roman times in their separate province of Germania
Inferior. At least once it was suggested that Germania Inferior be
given its own province and the idea was shot to hell (I think this
was at the end of 2000 or early 2001).
>
> When emails are sent to Provincia Gallia, they are always in
French with a fine attempt at an English translation. This leaves
the Dutch speakers totally left out. Historically as well as
currently, this is a sore point for Dutch speakers: no one ever
learns our language and we always have to learn others language to
communicate. When I sent emails to all the Gallians, I sent them in
English and Dutch, again not ideal becuase then the French speakers
are left out. and we all know how the French-- just like everyone
else-- love to use there own language.
>
> I realize that I am pessimistic as far as Gallia goes. Scipio was
the Governor a few years back and nothing improved here. Rutilius
took the job after my short stint as Governor and again nothing
improved. I would be enthusiastic if there was a separate Germania
Inferior Province. That said, I wish Sipio the best of luck in his
newest stint as Governor of Gallia.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

i usually don't handle citizens applications on the main list (this
list), but I thought that there wqas something strange with your
case, so it only fair to give You an open answer. Now I hope that we
can leave the main list and that You can solve this of-list together
with Fausta.

>Salve and thank you for replying.
>
>I emailed back immediately to the same email address from which the message
>came. Not wishing to be presumptive - especially if the scriba is
>particularly busy - I did not press the matter but instead waited patiently.

As soon as anyone has questions to a magistrate I think that one
should aske questions directly and preferably privately.

>To me, a teacher of Latin for more years than I care to remember, the whole
>concept of Nova Roma seemed exciting and full of possibilities for the
>future.

I certainly agree. Have You considered to offer Academia Thules to
become a Praeceptor of Latin at the Academia?

>I therefore joined the group to follow the postings from members. I
>was exceptionally impressed - and still am - with the erudition and depth of
>understanding of what Rome really meant and means today of Cato, whose
>postings I follow with great interest. This led me to want to become a
>citizen.

I am happy to welcome You among us. We are many enthusiasts from many
corners of the world. I am for example from Sweden. ;-)

>My basic point of view is that Rome is the foundation and fount of so many
>elements of our current society (culture, arts, law, religion, language -
>one could go on and on) that we ignore its values and its history at our
>peril. In an age when "relevance" to modernity is all that counts for most
>people (including particularly in the educational world) we need
>groups/societies which will remind us of our real roots.

Very true!

>In case my original email was lost (as I know can happen)

I know that my Scriba had problems with her old Internet provider,
but now everything seems to work smoothly.

>the text is as
>follows:
>
>"Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I got the names wrong - I had not
>realised that there were lists for praenomina and cognomina as well. So I've
>decided on the following:
>
>praenomen = Sextus
>
>cognomen = Barbatus
>
>

We usually don't discuss these things on the main list. Fausta have,
I hope, already contacted You privately.

>Apologies again - cum facie rubra

No problem.

>Peter Bird
>
>Thank you again for taking this up.

It is my duty! ;-)

>Vale optime
>
>Peter

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve, Aedilis Mani Constantine Serapio, et salvete, omnes!

> AVE OPTIMA FLAVIA TVLLIA
>
>> actually, 'municipium' was missing its final 'm'. . .
>
> I checked the picture just to be sure and I could read it. Look
> carefully and you'll see the full word as well ;-)
>

I found 'municipiu' in the fourth column from the right, reading top to
bottom. I also found 'sodalitas,' and 'abeam' (elsewhere) which I think are
among those I missed due to time and other factors. 'Sol' and 'vir' were
also among the words too short to count for this exercise, as were 'ire,'
'ita,' 'ago,' and 'mia.'

This was most interesting--I hope the supervisors of other ludi will
include such interesting games, though it might be best to separate enemy
soldier hunting completely from word games--we'll lick the Carthaginians
either way, but those who excel in one part of this are unlikely to excel in
the other. It was certainly novel to hide those Carthaginians on the web
site, and to have Latin word games. Optime!

> OPTIME VALE
> M'C.Serapio
>

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica

>
>

Let us try harder to promote Latin - even vulgar Latin - as an international
language and get back to the real roots!

Connitimur plus ad linguam latinam - etiam vulgarem - promulgandum sicut
lingua internationalis, quae nos radicibus veris conferat!

Sextus Pilatus Barbatus omnibus salutem optimam dicens hoc scripsit.



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Caius Curius Saturninus
Sent: 20 April 2005 14:50
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 1900



Salve,

The same situation is also in Thule where we have Finnish being totally
different from close relatives of Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and
Icelandic (and then there are some small minority languages like Saame
and Greenlandish). We haven't attempted to use national languages in
our internal communications instead we usually write in English, except
some few cases when it has been faster to write a short note in
national language. But this doesn't of course change the situation in
Gallia any better.

Vale,

On 20.4.2005, at 14:32, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> One of the problems is language. Gallia is I think the only province
> that contains two totally different language groups: Dutch and French.


Caius Curius Saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751




_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesoni Fabio Buteoni Quintiliano gratias ago .

Thank you for your helpful and kind reply. The Scriba has kindly replied to
me, and all is going smoothly. As for asking questions of a magistrate, a
new aspirant citizen is not necessarily aware of the protocols - but will be
in future. :-)

Of course, I would be more than happy to share my knowledge of Latin in any
way that others would find useful. I am at your service. Within my head
there is a treasury of experience of many years' teaching the language - I
would hate to it die with me, as I would hate such a beautiful language to
die.

Thank you again, Censor, for your welcome.

I look forward to taking the test!

Peter (until I become officially Sextus Pilatus Barbatus)



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
Sent: 20 April 2005 18:23
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Please stop the joking, we need Provincia
Gallia!



Salve!

i usually don't handle citizens applications on the main list (this
list), but I thought that there wqas something strange with your
case, so it only fair to give You an open answer. Now I hope that we
can leave the main list and that You can solve this of-list together
with Fausta.

>Salve and thank you for replying.
>
>I emailed back immediately to the same email address from which the message
>came. Not wishing to be presumptive - especially if the scriba is
>particularly busy - I did not press the matter but instead waited

patiently.

As soon as anyone has questions to a magistrate I think that one
should aske questions directly and preferably privately.

>To me, a teacher of Latin for more years than I care to remember, the whole
>concept of Nova Roma seemed exciting and full of possibilities for the
>future.

I certainly agree. Have You considered to offer Academia Thules to
become a Praeceptor of Latin at the Academia?

>I therefore joined the group to follow the postings from members. I
>was exceptionally impressed - and still am - with the erudition and depth

of

>understanding of what Rome really meant and means today of Cato, whose
>postings I follow with great interest. This led me to want to become a
>citizen.

I am happy to welcome You among us. We are many enthusiasts from many
corners of the world. I am for example from Sweden. ;-)

>My basic point of view is that Rome is the foundation and fount of so many
>elements of our current society (culture, arts, law, religion, language -
>one could go on and on) that we ignore its values and its history at our
>peril. In an age when "relevance" to modernity is all that counts for most
>people (including particularly in the educational world) we need
>groups/societies which will remind us of our real roots.

Very true!

>In case my original email was lost (as I know can happen)

I know that my Scriba had problems with her old Internet provider,
but now everything seems to work smoothly.

>the text is as
>follows:
>
>"Thank you for your email. I'm sorry I got the names wrong - I had not
>realised that there were lists for praenomina and cognomina as well. So

I've

>decided on the following:
>
>praenomen = Sextus
>
>cognomen = Barbatus
>
>

We usually don't discuss these things on the main list. Fausta have,
I hope, already contacted You privately.

>Apologies again - cum facie rubra

No problem.

>Peter Bird
>
>Thank you again for taking this up.

It is my duty! ;-)

>Vale optime
>
>Peter

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Sexte Pilati,

You signed yourself:

> Peter (until I become officially Sextus Pilatus Barbatus)

You are officially that now. The test will insure that you know a
little bit about Nova Roma so that you may hold the iura publica.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Flavia Tullia Scholastica Petro Avi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
omnibus S.P.D.

> Of course, I would be more than happy to share my knowledge of Latin in any
> way that others would find useful. I am at your service.

We would be delighted to have you in the Sodalitas Latinitatis. . .esne
quoque sodalis Gregis Latine Loquentium?

As for teaching at the Academia Thules, Avitus will be teaching Assimil
method basic Latin next year, and I was invited to teach Basic Latin from
Wheelock, but somehow the course materials never got transmitted to me, and
the course didn't get off the ground. Avitus is currently teaching Assimil
method as an intermediate course, however.

>Within my head
> there is a treasury of experience of many years' teaching the language - I
> would hate to it die with me, as I would hate such a beautiful language to
> die.
>

We Latinists and classicists in particular share your love for the Latin
language, and welcome those with a knowledge of Latin here. Even in Nova
Roma, there are very few here with a reading knowledge of Latin, to say
nothing of a writing or speaking knowledge. Extensive teaching experience
in addition makes you a treasure. Would you perchance be able to assist
with translating laws, or other elements of the website?

>
> I look forward to taking the test!
>

You must be the first person in the history of education who said that!

> Peter (until I become officially Sextus Pilatus Barbatus)
>

I dunno about Pilatus, but the rest should work. . .

Vale, et valete,

Flavia Tullia Scholastica
Scriba Latinitati Censoris Gnaei Equiti Marini
Moderatrix Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista et Hellenista Sodalitatis Musarum

> _____
>

Q. Caecilius Metellus Fetialis Quiritibus salutem dicit.

Si tu vales, valemus.

I don't know how many of you are literate in German (I know I'm not), but
(one of the benefits of working in the Classics library) I ran across a new
book by Jörg Rüpke, _Fasti Sacerdotum_. Unfortunately, since I'm German
illiterate, I've not been able to translate much beyond that, but it seems
to me that it's a chronicle of the priests of Rome from 300 BCE-499 CE.
Anyhow, it seems to also be a very comprehensive book (divided into three,
fairly-sized volumes). Perhaps one of our German literate cives might be
able to give a summary (or, even better, a review) of the work. In any
case, I thought I'd let you all know about it. Here's the link to the entry
in the University of Cincinnati's catalog:

http://uclid.uc.edu/search/cbl815p7r87+2005/cbl++815+p7+r87+2005/1%2C1%2C3%2
CE/frameset&FF=cbl++815+p7+r87+2005&1%2C%2C3
(If it doesn't work, let me know, and I'll guide you to the entry.)

Optime Valete!

Salvete,
I've tried the link again from my campus hooked-up
computer and the link doesn't work.

I should add that I would expect to see a lot of stuff
coming out especially on the early Roman priesthoods
and college of pontiffs. One of the key contributors
to a "revolution" in our understanding has been the
research of the internationally renowned expert in
Roman religion and Roman law, Alan Watson. His work is
an absolute must to get both Roman law and religion
down right. Some major misconceptions have been blown
out of the water and joined the academic dung heap of
the history of failed hypotheses and misguided putting
to-gether pieces of the relatively unknown puzzle of
Roman law and religion -- like pontifex maximus as
sort of a "pagan pope" --. Boy we were way off there
projecting Roman Catholic and Romano-Byzantine
conceptions back into Roman paganism of the early
Principate and Republic. Its root as "way-maker"
denotes, we now know, he was the highest political
mediator between the sacred and profane, sacred and
secular, the go-between the King and College of
Pontiffs as the "secretary-emissary" of the high
priests, later go-between the Senate and College of
Pontiffs as their "secretary-emissary". So while he
was the highest religious authority in the secular
sphere, he only the fourth highest priestly office
under the higher flamen maiores. We could never get
clear what was going on with why flamens were
appointed for life but the pontifex maximus was only
for a year; why the flamens were higher than the
pontifex maximus in the sacerdotal ordo but he was
higher as a quasi-political authority; why there could
be several pontifex maximus in a single year; why
otherwise non-priests could be pontifex maximus. Now
it all makes sense and falls into place. To a current
analogy with Catholicism, he was not the pope but the
vicar of the Vatican, roughly and in effect.

Again, Alan Watson's work on Roman law and religion is
an absolute must but most of the material and research
on all this are (unfortunately for those who are
limited to English) in European languages (especially,
German).

Valete,




--- "Q. Caecilius Metellus" <postumianus@...>
wrote:

> Q. Caecilius Metellus Fetialis Quiritibus salutem
> dicit.
>
> Si tu vales, valemus.
>
> I don't know how many of you are literate in German
> (I know I'm not), but
> (one of the benefits of working in the Classics
> library) I ran across a new
> book by J�rg R�pke, _Fasti Sacerdotum_.
> Unfortunately, since I'm German
> illiterate, I've not been able to translate much
> beyond that, but it seems
> to me that it's a chronicle of the priests of Rome
> from 300 BCE-499 CE.
> Anyhow, it seems to also be a very comprehensive
> book (divided into three,
> fairly-sized volumes). Perhaps one of our German
> literate cives might be
> able to give a summary (or, even better, a review)
> of the work. In any
> case, I thought I'd let you all know about it.
> Here's the link to the entry
> in the University of Cincinnati's catalog:
>
>

http://uclid.uc.edu/search/cbl815p7r87+2005/cbl++815+p7+r87+2005/1%2C1%2C3%2

> CE/frameset&FF=cbl++815+p7+r87+2005&1%2C%2C3
> (If it doesn't work, let me know, and I'll guide
> you to the entry.)
>
> Optime Valete!
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com