Salve Paulinus,
I'm studying this opportuniy since a couple of year.
The legal system is quite hard and complicated. The model of
organization would be close to the WWF and other NGOs. Usually there
is an "headquerter" in a Country which cohordinates the local
organizations. In fact legally an organization should register
itself in any Nation. So f.e. there is a local WWF in any Nation
(WWF Italia, WWF France, WWF Brasil, etc.) following the guidelines
indicated by the general headquarter.
I studied any possibility to apply this kind of model to NR.
Unluckly it requires a strong knowledge of any national law about no-
profit organizations, many money to register the organization in any
Nation, etc.
My dream is to transfomr NR in an internationl organization working
in any Nation as the most important group about Ancient Rome. But I
suppose this would be a long-time project and it's only my personal
viwe... ;-)

In any way NR is moving the first step in the "international"
direction. I'm going to propose to the Senatus the creation of a
Bank account in Europe helping the payment of the taxes and the
financements for the citizens living in the Old Continent, East-
Europe, Russia, Mediterranean area, North-Africa. The european bank
account would low the expanses for bank actions erasing the taxes
applied to the movements from USA to the other side of the Ocean.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> One thing I would like to find out is if there is any way NR could
> incorporate herself in Canada, Europe and South America in order

to

> get a charity type tax number so that non-Americans could donate

and

> recieve tax write offs for their donations. Also the various

Legions

> could do the same. In that way I would be happy to donate a lot

more

> money than I do as would many others. As we found out in other
> organizations, people and sponsers can be very tight fisted when
> there are no write offs.
>
> Gaia Aurelia Falconis Silvana, I see from your note below that you
> are right up on this; do you have any suggestions on how to go

about

> this?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana"
> <silvanatextrix@g...> wrote:
> > G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana Gn. Equitio Marino, T. Galerio
> > Paulino omnibusque SPD.
> >
> > If anyone wants to look at an alternate template for
> > a non-profit society's constitution and by-laws, I
> > offer the site below.
> >
> > We just completed the registration of a non-profit fencing
> > club in our community (2004). I was responsible for most
> > of the set-up paperwork. Yes, there are alot of groups in
> > town that are *not* registered (ie incorporated) as non-profit
> > societies, and they do alot of great stuff. But they run
> > into problems especially around fund-raising, which it seems
> > to me Nova Roma does through taxes, the Magna Mater Project,
> > etc. Getting insurance may be another hurdle.
> >
> > The government of British Columbia offers a cookie-cutter
> > approach to the process. You have three options for your
> > founding documents: 1) write your own document in its
> > entirety; 2) use the basic constitution and bylaws provided
> > by the provincial government; 3) use the basic document but
> > append a list of amendments your society wants, to make the
> > generic document fit your society better.
> >
> > The *Constitution* is a very brief statement that needs to
> > contain the name of the proposed society, its purpose, and
> > what will happen if it wraps up (closes). That's all.
> > Everything else is in the bylaws, which must cover basic
> > administrative stuff, like defining membership, defining
> > society officers, procedures for elections and meetings,
> > etc.
> >
> > Yes, with the current international climate, this is one
> > way to avoid being classified as a "cult", or other
> > potentially harmful organization. If Nova Roma is to
> > be a reconstruction in the modern world of the best that
> > was Roman civilization, incorporation (somewhere)is probably
> > essential. "Render unto Caesar . . . ." :-)
> >
> > WEBSITE:
> > Government of British Columbia corporate registries,
> > Socities page:
> >
> > www.fin.gov.bc.ca/registries/corppg/crsocieties.htm
> >
> > The blurb at the top of the page says:
> > "From this page you can download and print to your own printer
> > most of the Society Act forms and information packages.
> >
> > Valete in pace Deorum.
> > G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> > <gawne@c...> wrote:
> > > Salve Tiberi Galeri, et salvete quirites,
> > >
> > > > Wasn't there a Senate committee/commission set up to look at
> this
> > issue
> > > > last year or the year before??
> > >
> > > There was. I established a commission of Senators and that
> > commission did
> > > absolutely nothing. Interested parties may check the

Tabularium

> to
> > learn the
> > > names of those Senatores who were appointed to the

incorporation

> > commission.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > -- Marinus

Salve Genialis,
I'm very sad to see another citizen leaving NR, I hope, Amice, you
would reconsider your resignation. I wish you good luck inviting you
contact me privatly for any help.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Seniro Consul



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Arminius Genialis
<tagenialis@y...> wrote:

>
> Salvete L Armini Fauste, M Armini Maior, Caesar F Quintiliane et

omnes

>
> I'm deeply sad to inform that I must leave Nova Roma because I

have no able time to keep my activities here.

>
> Since some months ago, I've been some idle, some away from NR, but

I was always trying to keep informed about what's happening. But now
it's becoming impossible for me to do it.

>
> Thus, I would like to ask you to void any offices (such as

interpreter) I should hold.

>
> I'm going to stop receiving group messages, although I'm not going

to unsubscribe from the groups and I'll not ask annulation of my
citizenship, because I hope I can come back some day.

>
> I thank all my friends here at NR and I hope Concordia may help

Nova Roma to follow its way long.

>
> Valete optime bene.
>
> Titus Arminius Genialis.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Converse com seus amigos em tempo real com o Yahoo! Messenger
> http://br.download.yahoo.com/messenger/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

Tito Arminio is not resigning, he is only taking a
long leave of absence due to lack of time. He probably
will return some day.

Vale
M.Arminius

--- FAC <sacro_barese_impero@...> escreveu:

> Salve Genialis,
> I'm very sad to see another citizen leaving NR, I
> hope, Amice, you
> would reconsider your resignation. I wish you good
> luck inviting you
> contact me privatly for any help.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Seniro Consul
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Arminius
> Genialis
> <tagenialis@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete L Armini Fauste, M Armini Maior, Caesar F
> Quintiliane et
> omnes
> >
> > I'm deeply sad to inform that I must leave Nova
> Roma because I
> have no able time to keep my activities here.
> >
> > Since some months ago, I've been some idle, some
> away from NR, but
> I was always trying to keep informed about what's
> happening. But now
> it's becoming impossible for me to do it.
> >
> > Thus, I would like to ask you to void any offices
> (such as
> interpreter) I should hold.
> >
> > I'm going to stop receiving group messages,
> although I'm not going
> to unsubscribe from the groups and I'll not ask
> annulation of my
> citizenship, because I hope I can come back some
> day.
> >
> > I thank all my friends here at NR and I hope
> Concordia may help
> Nova Roma to follow its way long.
> >
> > Valete optime bene.
> > Titus Arminius Genialis.

_______________________________________________________
Yahoo! Acesso Grátis - Internet rápida e grátis.
Instale o discador agora! http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/

C. Minucius Hadrianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete.

While it is interesting that a planetarium would have a presentation on
Mithraism and its connections with astrology, I should point out that
the website the article is on belongs to a "neo-nazi" white supremacist
organization called New Vanguard that promotes a sort of "pan-European"
Aryan racist ideology. I suspect that their interest in Mithras comes
from his "Aryan" Indo-Iranian roots.

Their eligibility statement for membership reads:

"I am a White person of good moral character*, of entirely European
descent, and at least 18 years of age. I believe in National Vanguard's
goal of creating a better world through racial integrity, racial
progress, self-determination, and freedom; and I will support the
efforts of National Vanguard by paying my dues and by volunteering my
efforts as indicated below to reach other White people with our message.

* Persons of Jewish descent, homosexuals or bisexuals, criminals,
persons with a non-White spouse or sexual partner, or persons with more
than an undetectable trace of non-White ancestry are specifically barred
from membership."

Not the sort of organization we would want to be associated with, no
matter how indirectly. I would hope that the individual posting the
article was unaware of the nature of the website he found it on.

If anyone wants the ugly details, just look on:

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/

http://www.natvan.com/

Valete bene,

C. Minucius Hadrianus



Rusty Mason wrote:

>Planetarium Highlights Lost Pan-European Faith
>
>"Family-friendly planetarium show focuses on Mysteries of Mithras,
>Pan-European God sacred to the Roman Legions
>
>"San Jose California's world-famous Rosicrucian Planetarium is
>producing a breath-taking star show examining the astrological beliefs
>of one of the Ancient World's most important faiths, the worship of
>Mithras.
>
>"The God Mithras, originally a Persian Deity, was honored in ..."
>
>Full Article:
>http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=5793
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is ante diem VI Kalendas Septembris; the day is Nefastus
Publicus.

"Aegroto, dum anima est, spes esse dicitur." (It is said that for a
sick man, there is hope as long as there is life) - Cicero, Ad Atticum

Today is the festival of the Volturnalia, dedicated to Volturnus, "god
of the waters", god of fountains. Volturnus was a tribal river god,
probably Samnite, who later was identified as the god of the Tiber
river. The Volturnus River, in southern Italy, is named for him.
Volturnus was the father of the goddess Juturna, who was first
identified with a spring in Latium near the Numicus River and later
with a pool near the temple of Vesta in the Forum of Rome. They were
both honored on this day with feasting, wine-drinking, and games.

"Fortunately, with one exception, there was a respite from foreign
war. The colonists of Velitrae, becoming wanton in a time of peace and
in the absence of any Roman army, made various incursions into Roman
territory and began an attack on Tusculum. The citizens, allies of
old, and now citizens, implored help, and their situation moved not
only the senate, but the plebs as well, with a sense of shame. The
tribunes of the plebs gave way and the elections were conducted by an
interrex. The consular tribunes elected were: L. Furius, A. Manlius,
Ser. Sulpicius, Ser. Cornelius, P. and C. Valerius. They did not find
the plebeians nearly so amenable in the enlistment as they had been in
the elections; it was only after a very great struggle that an army
was raised. They not only dislodged the enemy from before Tusculum,
but forced him to take refuge behind his walls. The siege of Velitrae
was carried on with far greater vigour than that of Tusculum had been.
Those commanders who had commenced the investment did not, however,
effect its capture. The new consular tribunes were: Q. Servilius, C.
Veturius, A. and M. Cornelius, Q. Quinctius, and M. Fabius. Even under
these tribunes nothing worth mention took place at Velitrae. At home
affairs were becoming more critical. Sextius and Licinius, the
original proposers of the laws, who had been re-elected tribunes of
the plebs for the eighth time, were now supported by Fabius Ambustus,
Licinius Stolo's father-in-law. He came forward as the decided
advocate of the measures which he had initiated, and whereas there had
at first been eight members of the college of tribunes who had vetoed
the proposals, there were now only five. These five, as usually
happens with men who desert their party, were embarrassed and
dismayed, and defended their opposition by borrowed arguments
privately suggested to them by the patricians. They urged that as a
large number of plebeians were in the army at Velitrae the Assembly
ought to be adjourned till the return of the soldiers, to allow of the
entire body of the plebs voting on matters affecting their interests.
Sextius and Licinius, experts after so many years' practice in the art
of handling the plebs, in conjunction with some of their colleagues
and the consular tribune, Fabius Ambustus, brought forward the leaders
of the patrician party and worried them with questions on each of the
measures they were referring to the people. "Have you," they asked,
"the audacity to demand that whilst two jugera are allotted to each
plebeian, you yourselves should each occupy more than five hundred
jugera, so that while a single patrician can occupy the land of nearly
three hundred citizens, the holding of a plebeian is hardly extensive
enough for the roof he needs to shelter him, or the place where he is
to be buried? Is it your pleasure that the plebeians, crushed by debt,
should surrender their persons to fetters and punishments sooner than
that they should discharge their debts by repaying the principal? That
they should be led off in crowds from the Forum as the property of
their creditors? That the houses of the nobility should be filled with
prisoners, and wherever a patrician lives there should be a private
dungeon?" - Livy, History of Rome 6.36



"Dicunt in tenero gramine pingium
custodes ouium carmina fistula
delectantque deum cui pecus et nigri
colles Arcadiae placent...
Verum pone moras et studium lucri,
nigrorumque memor, dum licet, ignium
misce stultitiam consiliis breuem:
dulce est desipere in loco."

(On the soft grass the keepers of fat flocks
utter songs [to the accompaniment] of the pipe,
and they give delight to the god who is pleased
by herds and the black hills of Arcadia...
But put aside delays and the pursuit of profit,
and mindful of the dark [funeral] fires, while it is
permitted, mix a bit of nonsense with your schemes:
it is sweet on occasion to play the fool) - Horace, Odes 4.12

"Pan curat oues ouiumque magistros" (Pan cares for sheep and their
master) - Vergil, Eclogues 2.33
"Pan deus Arcadiae" (Pan, god of Arcadia) - Op.cit. 10.26

"Among the shepherds, 'twas believed ever,
That not one fleecy lamb which thus did sever
From the white flock, but pass'd unworried
By angry wolf, or pard with prying head,
Until it came to some unfooted plains
Where fed the herds of Pan: ay great his gains
Who thus one lamb did lose...

'O THOU, whose mighty palace roof doth hang
From jagged trunks, and overshadoweth
Eternal whispers, glooms, the birth, life, death
Of unseen flowers in heavy peacefulness;
Who lov'st to see the hamadryads dress
Their ruffled locks where meeting hazels darken;
And through whole solemn hours dost sit, and hearken
The dreary melody of bedded reeds—
In desolate places, where dank moisture breeds
The pipy hemlock to strange overgrowth;
Bethinking thee, how melancholy loth
Thou wast to lose fair Syrinx—do thou now,
By thy love's milky brow!
By all the trembling mazes that she ran,
Hear us, great Pan!'

'Thou, to whom every fawn and satyr flies
For willing service; whether to surprise
The squatted hare while in half sleeping fit;
Or upward ragged precipices flit
To save poor lambkins from the eagle's maw;
Or by mysterious enticement draw
Bewildered shepherds to their path again;
Or to tread breathless round the frothy main,
And gather up all fancifullest shells
For thee to tumble into Naiads' cells,
And, being hidden, laugh at their out-peeping;
Or to delight thee with fantastic leaping,
The while they pelt each other on the crown
With silvery oak apples, and fir cones brown—
By all the echoes that about thee ring,
Hear us, O satyr king!' " - J. Keats, "Endymion"

In ancient Greece, today was celebrated in honor of the god Pan. Pan
is the son of Hermes, and the god of goatherds and shepherds. He is
mostly human in appearance but with goat horns and goat feet. He was
depicted as a satyr with a reed pipe, a shepherd's crook and a branch
of pine or crown of pine needles. He is an excellent musician and
plays the pipes. He is merry and playful frequently seen dancing with
woodland nymphs. He is at home in any wild place but, is favorite is
Arcady, where he was born. He is always in pursuit of one or another
of the nymphs but, always rejected because he is ugly. His name is the
basis for the word "panic"; there are two differing explanations for
this: either he is the source of noises in the woods which frighten
travellers, or it was his shouting and general antics that helped
Iuppiter defeat the Titans. For the Romans, the two divinities of the
woods were Silvanus, "Forester", and Faunus, "Favorer". In Vergil,
Faunus is son of Picus and grandson of Saturn and father (by Marica)
of Latinus. Both he and Silvanus were generally identified with Pan
and were thought to be responsible for strange and sudden sounds in
the woods. Faunus had oracular powers (both Latinus and the second
Roman king, Numa, consulted him), and his consort Fauna was identified
with the Bona Dea, whose worship was only open to women. Faunus as
the direct equivalent of the Arcadian god Pan was worshiped by King
Evander, who came from Arcadia and founded Pallanteum, the first
settlement on the Palatine Hill. His sanctuary was a cave on the
Palatine, called the Lupercal, where the infant Romulus and Remus were
later suckled by the wolf (lupa). In historical times young men ran
around the boundaries of the Palatine near-naked because Faunus had
tried to seduce Omphale when she and Hercules were asleep in the
Lupercal. He did not know that they had exchanged clothes and found
himself attempting to seduce Hercules. After that his followers (the
Luperci) went naked to prevent the repetition of such a painful error.

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy06.html), Wikipedia,
Smith's Dictionary
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts
/secondary/SMIGRA/home.html)
Roman mythology (http://www.crystalinks.com/romemythology.html), Odes
of Horace (http://www.merriampark.com/horcarm412.htm), John Keats
"Endymion" (http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/keats/keats6.html)

C. Aemilius Papinianus omnibus salutem!

I tried to have the citizenship-test sent to me yesterday using the
form on the NR cives site, but it didn't work. The mail was returned to
me with the comment "address unknown".

So what do I have to do to take the test?

Valete.

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

I almost forgot one of the most interesting stories about Pan...

"Gods of Hellas, gods of Hellas,
Can ye listen in your silence?
Can your mystic voices tell us
Where ye hide? In floating islands,
With a wind that evermore
Keeps you out of sight of shore? Pan, Pan is dead.

Jove, the right hand is unloaded,
Whence the thunder did prevail,
While in idiocy of godhead
Thou art staring the stars pale!
And thine eagle, blind and old,
Roughs his feathers in the cold. Pan, Pan is dead.

Where, O Juno, is the glory
Of thy regal look and tread?
Will they lay forevermore thee,
On thy dim, straight, golden bed?
Will thy queendom all lie hid
Meekly, under either lid? Pan, Pan is dead.

Ha, Apollo! floats his golden
Hair all mist-like where he stands,
While the Muses hang enfolding
Knee and foot with faint wild hands?
'Neath the clanging of thy bow,
Niobe looked lost as though! Pan, Pan is dead.

Neptune lies beside his trident,
Dull and senseless as a stone;
And old Pluto deaf and silent
Is cast out into the sun:
Ceres smileth stern thereat
"We all now are desolate - Now Pan is dead."

- Elizabeth Barret Browning, "The Dead Pan"



"As for the death among such beings, I have heard the words of a man
who was not a fool nor an impostor. The father of Aemilianus the
orator, to whom some of you have listened, was Epitherses, who lived
in our town and was my teacher in grammar. He said that once upon a
time, in making a voyage to Italy, he embarked on a ship carrying
freight and many passengers. It was already evening when, near the
Echinades Islands, the wind dropped, and the ship drifted near Paxi.
Almost everybody was awake, and a good many had not finished their
after-dinner wine. Suddenly from the island of Paxi was heard the
voice of someone loudly calling Thamus, so that all were amazed.
Thamus was an Egyptian pilot, not known by name even to many on board.
Twice he was called and made no reply, but the third time he answered;
and the caller, raising his voice, said, 'When you come opposite to
Palodes, announce that Great Pan is dead.' On hearing this, all, said
Epitherses, were astonished and reasoned among themselves whether it
was better to carry out the order or to refuse to meddle and let the
matter go. Under the circumstances Thamus made up his mind that if
there should be a breeze, he would sail past and keep quiet, but with
no wind and a smooth sea about the place, he would announce what he
had heard. So, when he came opposite Palodes, and there was neither
wind nor wave, Thamus, from the stern, looking toward the land, said
the words as he had heard them: 'Great Pan is dead.' Even before he
had finished, there was a great cry of lamentation, not of one person,
but of many, mingled with exclamations of amazement. As many persons
were on the vessel, the story was soon spread abroad in Rome, and
Thamus was sent for by Tiberius Caesar. Tiberius became so convinced
of the truth of the story that he caused an inquiry and investigation
to be made about Pan; and the scholars, who were numerous at his
court, conjectured that he was the son born of Hermes and Penelope." -
Plutarch, "The Obsolescence of Oracles", Moralia 419 A-E

Valete bene!

Cato

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

It has come to my attention that there is some great concern regarding
the posts of the Calendar in which I used material from the internet
but did *not* cite specific sources.

I am going to remove the Calendar postings up to the point where I
began including individual sources; since I intend to continue the
Calendar, the information will re-appear as the year rolls, only this
time all relevant (i.e., non public domain) sources will be referenced.

Once again, I apologize for having created this issue, and am taking
steps to correct it. It was unintentional, and I hope you will bear
with me.

Valete bene,

Cato

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Aemilio Papiniano quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
omnibus S.P.D.

>C. Aemilius Papinianus omnibus salutem!
>
> I tried to have the citizenship-test sent to me yesterday using the
> form on the NR cives site, but it didn't work. The mail was returned to
> me with the comment "address unknown".

Perhaps it was a glitch. However, our webmaster has left Nova Roma, so
if you addressed him, it might have bounced.

>
> So what do I have to do to take the test?

We have a request for that from you at the censor's office--but one of
our rogatores is in the process of a temporary international move, and some
scribae are still on vacation. If the one to whom you are assigned is away,
or has computer problems (as a couple of them do on a recurrent basis), your
request might not have reached the correct person. I don't have access to
the tests yet.

>
> Valete.

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

>
>
>

Salve,

This will be taken care of immediately.

Vale,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Censor

Gaius Aemilius Papinianus wrote:

> C. Aemilius Papinianus omnibus salutem!
>
> I tried to have the citizenship-test sent to me yesterday using the
> form on the NR cives site, but it didn't work. The mail was returned to
> me with the comment "address unknown".
>
> So what do I have to do to take the test?
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 8/27/2005 7:15:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:
I am going to remove the Calendar postings up to the point where I
began including individual sources; since I intend to continue the
Calendar, the information will re-appear as the year rolls, only this
time all relevant (i.e., non public domain) sources will be referenced.
Actually, Equitius, you just need to put a disclaimer at the bottom of each
posting.

"Information for this Calendar is drawn from blah bah blah & blah blah blah"

That covers your bottom.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Roma,
I am Lucius Cladius Romulus, I am in the Eastern Part of TN. I
have been a member for almost two years now, and still have not met
anyone, even in my area, and only two persons have responded to my e-
mails, of which I am gratefull.I love everything ancient Roman, yet
even after joining Nova Roma still do not have anyone to speak with. I
have signed up for several on-line classes from Nova Roma, and still no
replies. What is going on? Is Rome empty?
I am starting to feel all alone here.Did I join a group of stiffs,
people who will not converse with you unless they know you personally
already? I would love to participate in anything Nova Roma has to
offer, get more people to join, ect, but why? Only two people have
bothered to take the time to respond to my questions in two years!Is
this why Rome fell?

Vale,
Lucius Claudius Romulus

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is ante diem V Kalendas Septembris; the day is Comitialis.

"Cito enim arescit lacrima, praesertim in alienis malis." (Tears dry
quickly, especially when they are for others' misfortunes) - Cicero,
De partitione oratoria

"They were denouncing these indignities in the ears of men,
apprehensive for their own safety, who listened to them with stronger
indignation than the men who were speaking felt. They went on to
assert that after all there would be no limit to the seizure of land
by the patricians or the murder of the plebs by the deadly usury until
the plebs elected one of the consuls from their own ranks as a
guardian of their liberties. The tribunes of the plebs were now
objects of contempt since their power was shattering itself by their
own veto. There could be no fair or just administration as long as the
executive power was in the hands of the other party, while they had
only the right of protesting by their veto; nor would the plebs ever
have an equal share in the government till the executive authority was
thrown open to them; nor would it be enough, as some people might
suppose, to allow plebeians to be voted for at the election of
consuls. Unless it was made obligatory for one consul at least to be
chosen from the plebs, no plebeian would ever become consul. Had they
forgotten that after they had decided that consular tribunes should be
elected in preference to consuls in order that the highest office
might be open to plebeians, not a single plebeian was elected consular
tribune for four-and-forty years? What did they suppose? Did they
imagine that the men who had been accustomed to fill all the eight
places when consular tribunes were elected would of their own free
will consent to share two places with the plebs, or that they would
allow the path to the consulship to be opened when they had so long
blocked the one to the consular tribuneship? The people would have to
secure by law what they could not gain by favour, and one of the two
consulships would have to be placed beyond dispute as open to the
plebs alone, for if it were open to a contest it would always be the
prey of the stronger party. The old, oft-repeated taunt could no
longer be made now that there were no men amongst the plebs suitable
for curule magistracies. Was the government carried on with less
spirit and energy after the consulship of P. Licinius Calvus, who was
the first plebeian to be elected to that post, than during the years
when only patricians held the office? Nay, on the contrary, there had
been some cases of patricians being impeached after their year of
office, but none of plebeians. The quaestors also, like the consular
tribunes, had a few years previously begun to be elected from the
plebs; in no single instance had the Roman people had any cause to
regret those appointments. The one thing that was left for the plebs
to strive for was the consulship. That was the pillar, the stronghold
of their liberties. If they arrived at that, the Roman people would
realise that monarchy had been completely banished from the City, and
that their freedom was securely established, for in that day
everything in which the patricians were pre-eminent would come to the
plebs - power, dignity, military glory, the stamp of nobility; great
things for themselves to enjoy, but greater still as legacies to their
children. When they saw that speeches of this kind were listened to
with approval, they brought forward a fresh proposal, viz. that
instead of the duumviri (the two keepers of the Sacred Books) a
College of Ten should be formed, half of them plebeians and half
patricians. The meeting of the Assembly, which was to pass these
measures, was adjourned till the return of the army which was
besieging Velitrae." - Livy, History of Rome 6.37


In ancient Egypt today was celebrated as the Nativity of Nepthys. The
"Mistress of the House" (Nebet-het or Nebt-het in the Egyptian
Language), Nephthys is the "Friend of the Dead," and is first
mentioned in Old Kingdom funerary literature as riding the "night
boat" of the underworld, meeting the deceased king's spirit and
accompanying him into "Lightland." Her hair is metaphorically compared
to the strips of cloth which shroud the bodies of the dead. Nephthys
is almost universally depicted as a woman with the hieroglyphic
symbols of her name (a basket and a house, stacked on top of each
other) situated atop her head, though she can also be depicted as a
bird (most often a kite or some other form of falcon/hawk). She was
associated with funerary rituals throughout ancient Egyptian history
and was venerated not as Death itself, but as the companion who gives
guidance to the newly deceased, and as a Lady With Wings who comforts
the deceased's living relatives. Nephthys is in most myths the
youngest daughter of Nut, sister of Isis and Osiris and the
sister-consort of Seth. In later periods Nephthys is also considered
to be the mother of Anubis, a primordial form of the lord of the dead
who later became subservient to Osiris in the Egyptian cultic myth.

Nephthys had connections with life as well as death -- she stood at
the head of the birth-bed to comfort and assist the mother giving
birth (while her sister, Isis, stood at the foot to midwife the
child). To our current Egyptological knowledge, Nephthys did not have
her own cult or temples in Egypt until the Ptolemaic-Roman period;
however, as her name is merely a title (the same title given to the
eldest woman in any ancient Egyptian household), it is possible that
Nephthys may be a specialized form of another goddess; probable
candidates include Bat (as she is called the "Lady of Het," or
"Nebt-het") and Neith (with whom Nephthys is paired in the canopic
shrine quadrants, as Isis is with Serket, who is sometimes seen to be
an aspect of Isis. Neith's being the "eldest of goddesses," along
with her connection with weaving and funerary garments lends credence
to this theory, as does the interchangeable depiction of Neith and/or
Nephthys in symmetrical transposition on a number of Late Period
temples.


In the Roman Catholic Church, today is celebrated as the Feast Day of
St. Augustine of Hippo. Saint Augustine was born in A.D. 354 in
Tagaste, a provincial Roman city in North Africa. He was raised and
educated in Carthage. His mother Monica (Saint Monica) was a devout
Christian and his father Patricius a Pagan. As a youth Augustine
followed the unpopular Manichaean religion, much to the horror of his
mother. In Carthage, he developed a relationship with a young woman
who would be his concubine for over a decade and produce a son. His
education and early career was in philosophy and rhetoric, the art of
persuasion and public speaking. He taught in Tagaste and Carthage, but
soon aspired to compete with the best, in Rome. However, Augustine
grew disappointed with the Roman schools, which he found apathetic.
Manichean friends introduced him to the prefect of the City of Rome,
Symmachus, who had been asked to provide a professor of rhetoric for
the imperial court at Milan.

The young provincial won the job and headed north to take up his
position in late 384. At age thirty, Augustine had won the most
visible academic chair in the Latin world, at a time when such posts
gave ready access to political careers. However, he felt the tensions
of life at an imperial court, lamenting one day as he rode in his
carriage to deliver a grand speech before the emperor, that a drunken
beggar he passed on the street had a less careworn existence than he.
Although Monica pressed the claims of Christianity, it is the bishop
of Milan, Ambrose, who had most influence over Augustine. Ambrose was
a master of rhetoric like Augustine himself, but older and more
experienced. Prompted by Ambrose's sermons, Augustine moved away from
Manichaeism, but instead of becoming Catholic like Ambrose, he
converted to pagan Neoplatonism. Augustine's mother followed him to
Milan and he allowed her to arrange a society marriage, for which he
abandoned his concubine (however he had to wait two years until his
fiancée came of age - and promptly took up in the meantime with
another woman.)

In the summer of 386, in a garden, Augustine underwent a profound
personal crisis and decided to convert to Christianity, abandon his
career in rhetoric, quit his teaching position in Milan, give up any
ideas of marriage (much to the horror of his mother), and devote
himself full time to religion, celibacy and the priesthood. Ambrose
baptized Augustine on Easter day in 387, and soon thereafter in 388 he
returned to Africa. On his way back to Africa his mother died, as did
his son soon after, leaving him relatively alone. Upon his return to
north Africa he created a monastic foundation at Tagaste for himself
and a group of friends. In 391 he was ordained a priest in Hippo
Regius, (now Annaba, in Algeria). He became a famous preacher (more
than 350 preserved sermons are believed to be authentic), and was
noted for combating the Manichaean heresy.

In 396 he was made coadjutor bishop of Hippo (assistant with the right
of succession on the death of the current bishop), and remained as
bishop in Hippo until his death in 430. He left his monastery, but
continued to lead a monastic life in the episcopal residence. He left
a Rule (Latin, Regula) for his monastery that has led him to be
designated the "patron saint of Regular Clergy," that is, parish
clergy who live by a monastic rule. Augustine died on August 28,
during the siege of Hippo by the Vandals. He is said to have
encouraged its citizens to resist the attacks, primarily on the
grounds that the Vandals adhered to Arianism, which Augustine regarded
as heretical.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOUCRES

Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/), Encyclopedia Mythica
("Nephthys." Encyclopedia Mythica from Encyclopedia Mythica Online.
<http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nephthys.html>), Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo),

Eheu! Luci Claudi Romule!

No - Rome is not empty. I think that, with a week off politics (is that
really possible?), after a rather lively few weeks of political controversy,
contumely and conversation, most people are probably sitting back and
breathing a sigh of peace and contentment. Others are most likely on
holiday. There are always emails on this list and all are interesting to
read - why not join in with the various subjects that people post? Anyway,
after your posting on here, I'd be willing to bet you get loads of replies!

Vale optime!

Sextus Pilatus Barbatus



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of luciusclaudiusromulus
Sent: 28 August 2005 07:30
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Is Rome Empty?



Salve Roma,
I am Lucius Cladius Romulus, I am in the Eastern Part of TN. I
have been a member for almost two years now, and still have not met
anyone, even in my area, and only two persons have responded to my e-
mails, of which I am gratefull.I love everything ancient Roman, yet
even after joining Nova Roma still do not have anyone to speak with. I
have signed up for several on-line classes from Nova Roma, and still no
replies. What is going on? Is Rome empty?
I am starting to feel all alone here.Did I join a group of stiffs,
people who will not converse with you unless they know you personally
already? I would love to participate in anything Nova Roma has to
offer, get more people to join, ect, but why? Only two people have
bothered to take the time to respond to my questions in two years!Is
this why Rome fell?

Vale,
Lucius Claudius Romulus








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE LUCI CLAUDI ROMULE !

Yes, the Rome is not empty. But is summer and a lot of us are still on holiday. Or they discuss in different roman interest groups. I'll bet, too.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Peter Bird <p.bird@...> wrote:
Eheu! Luci Claudi Romule!

No - Rome is not empty. I think that, with a week off politics (is that
really possible?), after a rather lively few weeks of political controversy,
contumely and conversation, most people are probably sitting back and
breathing a sigh of peace and contentment. Others are most likely on
holiday. There are always emails on this list and all are interesting to
read - why not join in with the various subjects that people post? Anyway,
after your posting on here, I'd be willing to bet you get loads of replies!

Vale optime!

Sextus Pilatus Barbatus



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of luciusclaudiusromulus
Sent: 28 August 2005 07:30
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Is Rome Empty?



Salve Roma,
I am Lucius Cladius Romulus, I am in the Eastern Part of TN. I
have been a member for almost two years now, and still have not met
anyone, even in my area, and only two persons have responded to my e-
mails, of which I am gratefull.I love everything ancient Roman, yet
even after joining Nova Roma still do not have anyone to speak with. I
have signed up for several on-line classes from Nova Roma, and still no
replies. What is going on? Is Rome empty?
I am starting to feel all alone here.Did I join a group of stiffs,
people who will not converse with you unless they know you personally
already? I would love to participate in anything Nova Roma has to
offer, get more people to join, ect, but why? Only two people have
bothered to take the time to respond to my questions in two years!Is
this why Rome fell?

Vale,
Lucius Claudius Romulus








_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "Nova-Roma
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The roman empire

---------------------------------
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__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Piscinus,

< We did not leave due to the

> superabundance of
> regulation, but over how some magistrates did not
> abide by those
> regulae and instead abused the authority of their
> offices. Old
> issues I won't go into again.

There are also a bunch of citizens who left because of
you. You do bring a wealth of information back with
you and for that I am glad. You've brought new life to
the Religio list. It's too bad that the citizens of
Gens Cornelia don't come back as well.

The old NR of 1999-2001, no longer exists. Even with
the fighting that took place, at least this place had
spirit....

Diana Octavia

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciusclaudiusromulus"
<luciusclaudiusromulus@y...> wrote:

> Salve Roma,
> I am Lucius Cladius Romulus, I am in the Eastern Part of TN. I
> have been a member for almost two years now, and still have not met
> anyone, even in my area, and only two persons have responded to my e-
> mails, of which I am gratefull.I love everything ancient Roman, yet
> even after joining Nova Roma still do not have anyone to speak with. I
> have signed up for several on-line classes from Nova Roma, and still no
> replies. What is going on? Is Rome empty?
> I am starting to feel all alone here.Did I join a group of stiffs,
> people who will not converse with you unless they know you personally
> already? I would love to participate in anything Nova Roma has to
> offer, get more people to join, ect, but why? Only two people have
> bothered to take the time to respond to my questions in two years!Is
> this why Rome fell?
>
> Vale,
> Lucius Claudius Romulus

Salve Lucii,

well I've tried to set up some own initiatives to bring some more
'action' into NR and attract new members, and I'd be happy to have a
helping hand. The forum is up and running, but could use some new
active members. Recently, I've set up a blog. I'm still looking after
a couple of other people who could write some (medium sized) texts for
the blog, so if you're interested in helping me out with this, please
contact me on groentje123@...


unofficial NR Blog: http://novaromanews.blogspot.com/

unofficial NR Forum: http://www.takeforum.com/forum/?mforum=novaroma


Vale

Publius Minius Mercator

Salve Lucius Claudius Romulus,

> I am starting to feel all alone here.Did I join
> a group of stiffs,
> people who will not converse with you unless they
> know you personally
> already? I would love to participate in anything
> Nova Roma has to
> offer, get more people to join, ect, but why? Only
> two people have
> bothered to take the time to respond to my questions
> in two years!Is
> this why Rome fell?

The problem is that most of the poeple that you've
emailed from your province are inactive and are no
longer interested in NR. I can't understand why there
email addresses ares till on the citizens list.

Feel free to ask me questions and I'll answer. I've
been around NR since its infancy.
Vale,
Diana

>
>
> Vale,
> >
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.

S.V.G.E.R.


I have the pleasure to inform you all that I am back in home and
fully in my daily tribunician office.

Many thanks to my colleagues tribunes, specially to Hon. Maior and
Fuscus, who have given some of you some informations on my attending
in Rome european conventus concerning the senate report debate.
These answers would have shown, if necessary, that the Tribunate, in
spite of the freedom of action that each of its members keeps, works
continuously and collectively. Cordial thanks, also, to Consul
Caesar and Praeses Scipio for their messages on the same item.

Naturally, I will answer every letter that I have received during my
holidays, and give a full reply to the interesting senate report
question, using every useful contribution made on the subject(Censor
Marinus, Senatrix Strabo and Silvana ones, specially)

At last, I will join the illustri citizens who had said their
happiness in having attended the Rome conventus. Even if I had not
the possibility to participate to all its events, I did really
appreciate meeting all of the people there. I think that this event
has been fully successful, just, among others, in the fact that we
all have the possibility to speak directly and friendly each others.
My special thoughts go to our dear Equitius Cato, who has flied
across the ocean to join us, and to the whole Dacia team, which has
engaged important expenses for the conventus. These kind of things
do give you a lot of energy to carry on our office and involvment in
Nova Roma.

Valete omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Ludgunensis Galliae

Salve Cai Cato

I have been enjoying your excerpts from Livy. You did today,
however, seem to have neglected some additional information that
might be of interest to gentiles Romani. Today, in ante diem
quintum Kalendas Septemberias, is the feast day of Sol and Luna, the
day marking the dedication of a shrine in the Circus for the twin
lights of Latona, according to the Fasti Praenestini and in the
Fasti Furii Philocali.

Nurturing Sol, shining charioteer,
who brings forth and conceals light,
born each day unaltered, may you
Never see a city greater than Rome.

Gentle Moon, Ilithyia, Lucina,
by whatever name you wish called,
Gentalis, watch over mothers,
may you give them gentle deliveries.

~ Quintus Horatius Flaccus, Carmen Saeculares Lines 9-16


Vale
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> OSD G. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Today is ante diem V Kalendas Septembris; the day is Comitialis.
>
> "Cito enim arescit lacrima, praesertim in alienis malis." (Tears

dry

> quickly, especially when they are for others' misfortunes) -

Cicero,

> De partitione oratoria
>
> "They were denouncing these indignities in the ears of men,
> apprehensive for their own safety, who listened to them with

stronger

> indignation than the men who were speaking felt. They went on to
> assert that after all there would be no limit to the seizure of

land

> by the patricians or the murder of the plebs by the deadly usury

until

> the plebs elected one of the consuls from their own ranks as a
> guardian of their liberties. The tribunes of the plebs were now
> objects of contempt since their power was shattering itself by

their

> own veto. There could be no fair or just administration as long as

the

> executive power was in the hands of the other party, while they had
> only the right of protesting by their veto; nor would the plebs

ever

> have an equal share in the government till the executive authority

was

> thrown open to them; nor would it be enough, as some people might
> suppose, to allow plebeians to be voted for at the election of
> consuls. Unless it was made obligatory for one consul at least to

be

> chosen from the plebs, no plebeian would ever become consul. Had

they

> forgotten that after they had decided that consular tribunes

should be

> elected in preference to consuls in order that the highest office
> might be open to plebeians, not a single plebeian was elected

consular

> tribune for four-and-forty years? What did they suppose? Did they
> imagine that the men who had been accustomed to fill all the eight
> places when consular tribunes were elected would of their own free
> will consent to share two places with the plebs, or that they would
> allow the path to the consulship to be opened when they had so long
> blocked the one to the consular tribuneship? The people would have

to

> secure by law what they could not gain by favour, and one of the

two

> consulships would have to be placed beyond dispute as open to the
> plebs alone, for if it were open to a contest it would always be

the

> prey of the stronger party. The old, oft-repeated taunt could no
> longer be made now that there were no men amongst the plebs

suitable

> for curule magistracies. Was the government carried on with less
> spirit and energy after the consulship of P. Licinius Calvus, who

was

> the first plebeian to be elected to that post, than during the

years

> when only patricians held the office? Nay, on the contrary, there

had

> been some cases of patricians being impeached after their year of
> office, but none of plebeians. The quaestors also, like the

consular

> tribunes, had a few years previously begun to be elected from the
> plebs; in no single instance had the Roman people had any cause to
> regret those appointments. The one thing that was left for the

plebs

> to strive for was the consulship. That was the pillar, the

stronghold

> of their liberties. If they arrived at that, the Roman people would
> realise that monarchy had been completely banished from the City,

and

> that their freedom was securely established, for in that day
> everything in which the patricians were pre-eminent would come to

the

> plebs - power, dignity, military glory, the stamp of nobility;

great

> things for themselves to enjoy, but greater still as legacies to

their

> children. When they saw that speeches of this kind were listened to
> with approval, they brought forward a fresh proposal, viz. that
> instead of the duumviri (the two keepers of the Sacred Books) a
> College of Ten should be formed, half of them plebeians and half
> patricians. The meeting of the Assembly, which was to pass these
> measures, was adjourned till the return of the army which was
> besieging Velitrae." - Livy, History of Rome 6.37
>
>
> In ancient Egypt today was celebrated as the Nativity of Nepthys.

The

> "Mistress of the House" (Nebet-het or Nebt-het in the Egyptian
> Language), Nephthys is the "Friend of the Dead," and is first
> mentioned in Old Kingdom funerary literature as riding the "night
> boat" of the underworld, meeting the deceased king's spirit and
> accompanying him into "Lightland." Her hair is metaphorically

compared

> to the strips of cloth which shroud the bodies of the dead.

Nephthys

> is almost universally depicted as a woman with the hieroglyphic
> symbols of her name (a basket and a house, stacked on top of each
> other) situated atop her head, though she can also be depicted as a
> bird (most often a kite or some other form of falcon/hawk). She was
> associated with funerary rituals throughout ancient Egyptian

history

> and was venerated not as Death itself, but as the companion who

gives

> guidance to the newly deceased, and as a Lady With Wings who

comforts

> the deceased's living relatives. Nephthys is in most myths the
> youngest daughter of Nut, sister of Isis and Osiris and the
> sister-consort of Seth. In later periods Nephthys is also

considered

> to be the mother of Anubis, a primordial form of the lord of the

dead

> who later became subservient to Osiris in the Egyptian cultic myth.
>
> Nephthys had connections with life as well as death -- she stood at
> the head of the birth-bed to comfort and assist the mother giving
> birth (while her sister, Isis, stood at the foot to midwife the
> child). To our current Egyptological knowledge, Nephthys did not

have

> her own cult or temples in Egypt until the Ptolemaic-Roman period;
> however, as her name is merely a title (the same title given to the
> eldest woman in any ancient Egyptian household), it is possible

that

> Nephthys may be a specialized form of another goddess; probable
> candidates include Bat (as she is called the "Lady of Het," or
> "Nebt-het") and Neith (with whom Nephthys is paired in the canopic
> shrine quadrants, as Isis is with Serket, who is sometimes seen to

be

> an aspect of Isis. Neith's being the "eldest of goddesses," along
> with her connection with weaving and funerary garments lends

credence

> to this theory, as does the interchangeable depiction of Neith

and/or

> Nephthys in symmetrical transposition on a number of Late Period
> temples.
>
>
> In the Roman Catholic Church, today is celebrated as the Feast Day

of

> St. Augustine of Hippo. Saint Augustine was born in A.D. 354 in
> Tagaste, a provincial Roman city in North Africa. He was raised and
> educated in Carthage. His mother Monica (Saint Monica) was a devout
> Christian and his father Patricius a Pagan. As a youth Augustine
> followed the unpopular Manichaean religion, much to the horror of

his

> mother. In Carthage, he developed a relationship with a young woman
> who would be his concubine for over a decade and produce a son. His
> education and early career was in philosophy and rhetoric, the art

of

> persuasion and public speaking. He taught in Tagaste and Carthage,

but

> soon aspired to compete with the best, in Rome. However, Augustine
> grew disappointed with the Roman schools, which he found apathetic.
> Manichean friends introduced him to the prefect of the City of

Rome,

> Symmachus, who had been asked to provide a professor of rhetoric

for

> the imperial court at Milan.
>
> The young provincial won the job and headed north to take up his
> position in late 384. At age thirty, Augustine had won the most
> visible academic chair in the Latin world, at a time when such

posts

> gave ready access to political careers. However, he felt the

tensions

> of life at an imperial court, lamenting one day as he rode in his
> carriage to deliver a grand speech before the emperor, that a

drunken

> beggar he passed on the street had a less careworn existence than

he.

> Although Monica pressed the claims of Christianity, it is the

bishop

> of Milan, Ambrose, who had most influence over Augustine. Ambrose

was

> a master of rhetoric like Augustine himself, but older and more
> experienced. Prompted by Ambrose's sermons, Augustine moved away

from

> Manichaeism, but instead of becoming Catholic like Ambrose, he
> converted to pagan Neoplatonism. Augustine's mother followed him to
> Milan and he allowed her to arrange a society marriage, for which

he

> abandoned his concubine (however he had to wait two years until his
> fiancée came of age - and promptly took up in the meantime with
> another woman.)
>
> In the summer of 386, in a garden, Augustine underwent a profound
> personal crisis and decided to convert to Christianity, abandon his
> career in rhetoric, quit his teaching position in Milan, give up

any

> ideas of marriage (much to the horror of his mother), and devote
> himself full time to religion, celibacy and the priesthood. Ambrose
> baptized Augustine on Easter day in 387, and soon thereafter in

388 he

> returned to Africa. On his way back to Africa his mother died, as

did

> his son soon after, leaving him relatively alone. Upon his return

to

> north Africa he created a monastic foundation at Tagaste for

himself

> and a group of friends. In 391 he was ordained a priest in Hippo
> Regius, (now Annaba, in Algeria). He became a famous preacher (more
> than 350 preserved sermons are believed to be authentic), and was
> noted for combating the Manichaean heresy.
>
> In 396 he was made coadjutor bishop of Hippo (assistant with the

right

> of succession on the death of the current bishop), and remained as
> bishop in Hippo until his death in 430. He left his monastery, but
> continued to lead a monastic life in the episcopal residence. He

left

> a Rule (Latin, Regula) for his monastery that has led him to be
> designated the "patron saint of Regular Clergy," that is, parish
> clergy who live by a monastic rule. Augustine died on August 28,
> during the siege of Hippo by the Vandals. He is said to have
> encouraged its citizens to resist the attacks, primarily on the
> grounds that the Vandals adhered to Arianism, which Augustine

regarded

> as heretical.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> SOUCRES
>
> Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/), Encyclopedia

Mythica

> ("Nephthys." Encyclopedia Mythica from Encyclopedia Mythica Online.
> <http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nephthys.html>), Wikipedia
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo),

G. Equitius Cato M. Horationi Piscino quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve Piscinus et salvete omnes.

And thank you. I'll add that to my list of things to investigate for
future posts :-)

Also, this is a good time to once again encourage all citizens to send
me anything they would like to see in the calendar post on a specific
date: prayers, rites, anything they might want to share with the
quirites on any given date.

Vale et valete!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@s...> wrote:
> Salve Cai Cato
>
> I have been enjoying your excerpts from Livy. You did today,
> however, seem to have neglected some additional information that
> might be of interest to gentiles Romani. Today, in ante diem
> quintum Kalendas Septemberias, is the feast day of Sol and Luna [SNIP]

AVE TRIBUNE !

Tribune Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.
S.V.G.E.R.
<<I have the pleasure to inform you all that I am back in home and
fully in my daily tribunician office.>>

You are welcome !

<<At last, I will join the illustri citizens who had said their
happiness in having attended the Rome conventus. Even if I had not
the possibility to participate to all its events, I did really
appreciate meeting all of the people there.>>

Yes, indeed. It was nice to meet you.

<<My special thoughts go to our dear Equitius Cato, who has flied
across the ocean to join us, and to the whole Dacia team.>>

Thank you , tribune, for appreciations.

A photo for you.

OPTIME VALE,

IVL SABINVS






---------------------------------





Roma 129






"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Aventina, what are you talking about this morning/afternoon, dear?


Which 'bunch' of citizens left, supposedly because of Moravius
Piscinus?? And how in hades would you know because you were not
active at all during the time Piscinus came to us in 2000 and
departed 'with' several persons in Spring 2001?

Vado (remember him?) informed the readership of the Britannia list
(the old Britannia List)in the spring (April or so) of 2000 that you
had 'resigned'... I remember as I had just joined NR a couple of
months prior to this...it was around the time a few from the U.S.
gathered to meet with some citizens of Britannia.

Whether in fact you had zipped yourself away from your actual
citizenship via the censors is not my business...but I somehow don't
*exactly* think this makes you the most credible source of
information regarding who left NR during your absence.

To boot,you were never a filias of gens Cornelia from 2000 to mid
2004, unless of course you had two citizenships, and I'll give you
the benefit of the doubt here....let's not go there. At any rate,
your 'information' is perhaps based on works of either Hans
Christian Andersen or the Brothers Grimm....not any actual facts
that I am aware of to the above date....

Nothing like a good 'hogwash' of confabulation to get one wide
awake. Works like cold water on the face....for that you have my
sincere thanks this morning, my time if for nothing else... as I
have things to do...in alert mode.

Pompeia





In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<dianaaventina@y...> wrote:

> Salve Piscinus,
>
> < We did not leave due to the
> > superabundance of
> > regulation, but over how some magistrates did not
> > abide by those
> > regulae and instead abused the authority of their
> > offices. Old
> > issues I won't go into again.
>
> There are also a bunch of citizens who left because of
> you. You do bring a wealth of information back with
> you and for that I am glad. You've brought new life to
> the Religio list. It's too bad that the citizens of
> Gens Cornelia don't come back as well.
>
> The old NR of 1999-2001, no longer exists. Even with
> the fighting that took place, at least this place had
> spirit....
>
> Diana Octavia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

As Horatio Piscinus pointed out, today is indeed a celebration of Sol
and Luna. According to the Encyclopedia Mythica, Luna is the
personified goddess of the moon. Later she is identified with Diana,
Hecate, and most directly with Selene. Her temple, on the Aventine
Hill, was erected in the 6th century B.C. but was destroyed by the
great fire under Nero's regime. Sol is the personified god of the
sun, completely identical to the Greek Helios. He was possibly
worshipped as Sol Indiges in his temple on the Quirinalis. A second
temple was located at the Circus Maximus, near the race-tracks, where
he was considered to be the protector of the four-in-hands which
joined the races. The emperor Heliogabalus imported the cult of Sol
Invictus ("the invincible sun") from Syria and Sol was made god of the
state. (Encyclopedia Mythica - http://www.pantheon.org, "Sol" and "Luna")

Valete bene,

Cato

Salve Romans

Yes this shows how much better life is in NR when we don't talk about laws, constitutions and politics and the like. Yes this type of exchange is much more uplifting and productive. : (

I say we ban talk about politics forever. : )


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Multae sententiae de constitutione et de lege constitutiva


---Aventina, what are you talking about this morning/afternoon, dear?


Which 'bunch' of citizens left, supposedly because of Moravius
Piscinus?? And how in hades would you know because you were not
active at all during the time Piscinus came to us in 2000 and
departed 'with' several persons in Spring 2001?

Vado (remember him?) informed the readership of the Britannia list
(the old Britannia List)in the spring (April or so) of 2000 that you
had 'resigned'... I remember as I had just joined NR a couple of
months prior to this...it was around the time a few from the U.S.
gathered to meet with some citizens of Britannia.

Whether in fact you had zipped yourself away from your actual
citizenship via the censors is not my business...but I somehow don't
*exactly* think this makes you the most credible source of
information regarding who left NR during your absence.

To boot,you were never a filias of gens Cornelia from 2000 to mid
2004, unless of course you had two citizenships, and I'll give you
the benefit of the doubt here....let's not go there. At any rate,
your 'information' is perhaps based on works of either Hans
Christian Andersen or the Brothers Grimm....not any actual facts
that I am aware of to the above date....

Nothing like a good 'hogwash' of confabulation to get one wide
awake. Works like cold water on the face....for that you have my
sincere thanks this morning, my time if for nothing else... as I
have things to do...in alert mode.

Pompeia





In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<dianaaventina@y...> wrote:
> Salve Piscinus,
>
> < We did not leave due to the
> > superabundance of
> > regulation, but over how some magistrates did not
> > abide by those
> > regulae and instead abused the authority of their
> > offices. Old
> > issues I won't go into again.
>
> There are also a bunch of citizens who left because of
> you. You do bring a wealth of information back with
> you and for that I am glad. You've brought new life to
> the Religio list. It's too bad that the citizens of
> Gens Cornelia don't come back as well.
>
> The old NR of 1999-2001, no longer exists. Even with
> the fighting that took place, at least this place had
> spirit....
>
> Diana Octavia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>




SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+roman+empire&c=3&s=73&.sig=WUTlMtENoMRB6MOID9-IPQ> Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+roman+empire&c=3&s=73&.sig=7ZPJH_XakfyQXSLqXlFYDQ> The roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+roman+empire&c=3&s=73&.sig=EupvctrPtcX3_ywoebvYDQ>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

From the Archives of the Sodalis Coq et Coq

Recipe: Grilled Lobster (Apicius 399)


Serves two

Ingredients
1 lobster
1 Tbs. coriander
1/3 cup garum
Pepper to taste (no damm it lots!)
2/3 cup wine vinegar
1 Tbs. olive oil

Split the lobsters in half lengthways and remove the bitter, intestine and
stomach sac. Make a basting sauce of the remaining ingredients by
grinding them together with a pestle & mortar. Brush the lobster flesh
with the sauce and grill, flesh side down first to colour the shell. After a
couple of minutes turn the lobster over and grill flesh side up. Baste the
lobster regularly to prevent it drying out. Cooking time depends on the
lobsters weight but 15-20 minutes should be plenty.

This dish could also be prepared, indeed is probably best prepared, on a
barbecue. Care should be taken not to allow the flesh to stick. In this
case I would recommend starting it flesh side to the grill and then doing
the majority of the cooking shell side down whilst basting the top.

This dish is taken and slightly adapted from "A Taste of Ancient Rome"
by Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa.


Respectively submitted by the Sodalis Coq et Coq

In vino veritas

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Luci Claudi Romule, et salvete, omnes!

> Salve Roma,
> I am Lucius Cladius Romulus, I am in the Eastern Part of TN.

As do some other citizens.

> I
> have been a member for almost two years now, and still have not met
> anyone, even in my area, and only two persons have responded to my e-
> mails, of which I am gratefull.I love everything ancient Roman, yet
> even after joining Nova Roma still do not have anyone to speak with. I
> have signed up for several on-line classes from Nova Roma, and still no
> replies.

There was a very active citizen in the Nashville area; I believe that
there are others in that vicinity--but they may be away, or not have net
access apart from school. Here in the NE US at least, it's still summer
vacation.

I'm not aware that Nova Roma conducts any form of online classes, but
the Academia Thules does. However, I suspect that none is in progress right
now, for the very good reason that people are on vacation. I shall be
teaching a Latin course there which you are welcome to join, and so will my
colleague Avitus. Were the courses for which you signed up conducted by the
Academia Thules? Did they actually start? (some don't...) Were you on the
appropriate mailing list(s)?

>What is going on? Is Rome empty?
> I am starting to feel all alone here.

I'm the only active citizen in my county. There may be one inactive
one, and one in a county some 70 miles away. Some people are the only
citizens in their entire countries. Have you joined any sodality lists
(granted, communication there is spotty)? I greet all newcomers to the
sodalitates whose lists I moderate so that the newbies feel welcome.

>Did I join a group of stiffs,
> people who will not converse with you unless they know you personally
> already?

No, not at all. We make friends here.

>I would love to participate in anything Nova Roma has to
> offer, get more people to join, ect,

Did you attend the filming at the Nashville Parthenon last October?
There was an event open to the public, as well as the filming limited to
prior registrants.

>but why? Only two people have
> bothered to take the time to respond to my questions in two years!

When I became a citizen, I contacted most members of my gens, which at
the time numbered about 18 and was under the leadership of one individual,
as all gentes were at the time. I never received a single reply. Only one
person, a magistrate, answered my questions, and another official answered
some other questions.

Have you considered joining the New Roman list? You're not new, but
neither are all of the members there. You might find some friends there, or
in one of the sodalitates. What are your interests? There's an SIG
(sodalitas) for just about everything.

>Is
> this why Rome fell?

I don't think so...

>
> Vale,
> Lucius Claudius Romulus
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

>
>
>

Salvete!

This is a great topic for conversation. I have heard different views
about Augustus over the years both good and bad but overall I have
come to the conclusion that he was a shrewd politician who was able
to outwit the more military minded generals. The fall of the
republic was a forgone conclusion set in motion before his time.

When I think of Rome's golden age I think of Augustus; under his
administration Rome and her empire were really set on its feet with
Pax Romana. In comparison to other men and emperors of his time I
thought he did vey well. He seemed to be more Stoic in the way he
lived avoiding lavish lifestyles, trying to set some sorts of moral
codes. Even Cleopatra who knocked two tough generals off their feet
was unable to drag the younger Augustus to the sack; if she was the
great intellectual enchantress and beauty by the standards of those
times, she never phased the stronger character of Augustus which
showed that his privates did not rule his brain.

You can find fault with every human in the world; even Mother Teresa
and many writers have mentioned his short comings and weaknesses..
Overall however you did not get to such a position and let alone
hold it for such a long time by being weak in character and stupid
intellectually; in short, my hat goes off to Augustus. I think his
benevolence and service to Rome far exceeds his house cleaning
earlier on.

Now these are just my personal thoughts and do not mean this to be
an academic exercise so I haven't hit the books for quotes,
critiques etc.

Regards.

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, laurent_coffre@b... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> In an effort to keep political and other boring stuff at bay, I
copy below
> something I sent to the Britannia list some time ago when we were
> discussing the role Octavianus played in the fall of the republic.
The
> question, of course, has not been settled so I thought I could
poke around
> and see if some of you would like to comment and offer suggestions
or more
> evidence on what I have written ;-)
> I would be happy to provide my sources if anybody is interested...
>
> So here it goes below,
>
> Valete
>
> Laureatus
>
> xxxxxx
>
> Thank you both for taking interest in the discussion. I would
like, if I
> may, express a couple of things that prompted me to write on this
list
> about Octavius/Octavianus/Caesar/Augustus.
>
> Quite apart from any other consideration, his very name, as seen
above, has
> evolved over the years reflecting perhaps that the young man and
the older
> stateman were quite different. It may also indicate that Augustus
knew how
> to adapt to the different situations he faced and made the right
choice at
> the right time, ie phasing out Octavianus for Caesar. Both
cognomina were
> already in his full name but he chose the latter to be addressed
when he
> started his political career. In other words, he knew what he was
doing and
> what trick to use to gather popular support.
> But he could also have done so to honour the memory of his
assassinated
> “father” so the revenge argument is also valid.
>
> The young Octavianus was only 18 when Caesar died. I don’t know
about you
> but when I was 18, I was nowhere near capable enough of mounting a
> succesful coup! One could argue that Romans matured faster (?) or
rather
> that their abilities as adults were recognised earlier so that
Octavius was
> seen as an equal by his peers. But I doubt that. I have read that
he was
> not immune against mockery and there seems to be indications that
some
> Senators did not take him seriously. Indeed, it is good to
remember that
> the most junior magistracy, the quaestorship, was not available
for men
> under the age of 30. So it is very possible to imagine that when
Octavius
> arrived in Rome he had a hard time to convince people that he
would be a
> serious contendant.
>
> Furthermore, Octavius came from a relatively unknown family with no
> consular to speak of. He had done nothing in particular to be
noticed by
> his contemporaries, he had held no office, fought no battles. He
was too
> young and a nobody. Of course age is not always relevant: One can
turn to
> other examples of young men achieving great things, Alexander or
Bonaparte
> for instance. Those two generals, however, were exceptional
soldiers and
> earned their legitimacy for their later rule through their
abilities and
> successes in war. Octavius did not have this opportunity.
> If I had been a bookmaker in the summer of 44BC, I don’t think I
would have
> bet my old shirt on him to rule the Urbs.
>
> So, how did he do it? Did he have plans laid out and set out to
usurp
> power? Did he really want revenge against the murderers of his
“father”
> when no one else of substance and other relatives and friends
stood up to
> do just that? Did he get caught in the events and was lucky,
sometimes
> ruthless, in his decision making so that he would survive?
>
> I do not have an answer but I would investigate the matter along
two lines
> that could shed some light on my questions:
>
> 1. He was Caesar’s heir. That, in my opinion, is the single most
important
> fact to explain his head start. Just by having been adopted,
Octavius had
> at his disposal a colossal fortune, the largest numbers of clients
who
> passed traditionally from the deceased patron to his heir and the
support
> of Caesar’s veterans. This would certainly be enough for anybody
to
> emphasize the “Caesar” part of one’s name to take full
advantage of the
> situation. Antonius, it must be said, was not fooled and,
unsuccesfully,
> tried to keep the fortune and manage it “on behalf” of the
heir…
>
> 2. Octavianus, the triumvir, and Augustus, the princeps, built
some kind of
> unwritten “constitution” (the word is ill chosen, please
forgive me) that
> looked more like a patchwork than a planned project. He took the
old
> Republican institutions, kept their democratic appearance but
tweaked them
> so that, effectively, he retained and centralised power long
enough in the
> hand of one man, his own, to acquire enough dignitas and wealth.
Then as
> the ultimate patron he yielded enough influence over his clients,
or
> subjects, who comprised by then the whole citizen body.
>
> My instinct, at this point is to think the following. A very
intelligent
> and shrewd young man inherits the greatest wealth and influence of
the then
> known world. These were troubled times, and although he might not
have
> wanted it, he had to use the resources at his disposal first to
survive,
> then to consolidate his power so that he would not be threatened.
Colossal
> resources called for colossal changes. It is worth noting that the
ageing
> Augustus took great pains to ensure a return to morals and was more
> inclined to clementia when his ennemies were no more. He did not
need to be
> ruthless anymore, he did not fear for his life anymore.
> The only thing we can be disappointed with, as modern students and
with
> hindsight, is that he did not restore the Republic when peace and
posperity
> had returned. Perhaps we could discuss that in another thread but
I doubt
> the question really bothered the 90% of the non elite population
who were
> probably better off and rather prefered to give away some of the
liberty
> they never had for a peace they could feel!
>
> So, in conclusion, who is to blame for the principate, if there is
blame to
> be assigned? Octavius who navigated the troubled water or the
conditions
> that created the heavy seas? And to go back to the original
question,
> linked to the previous one: Was Octavius a conscious tyrant or
simply a man
> of his time playing the cards life had dealt him?
>
>
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_

G. Equitius Cato L. Claudio Romulo S.P.D.

Salve Romulus!

Rome is not empty; we've all just gone to Sorrentum for the August
holidays :-)

One small thing that may have kept the Forum a little quieter than
usual (as far as I'm concerned at least) is a vow I made not to talk
about law or politics for one week. The week is almost up (it ends
Wednesday, 31 August)...

Vale bene,

Cato

Salve,

This is exactly what I had read :-) Thank you. And I misnamed the forest; it is deciduous, not indigenous. (I'm also looking for info on newt and salamander habitats for my son. My mistake.)

I found several maps that show present day areas where the forest is and I'm hoping to find find where it has covered in the past. At the moment it is very sparse in the Mediterranean region, though it covers a good deal of Europe, a large area in Asia and the eastern U.S. (including southeastern Canada. I'm going to keep looking and hopefully I'll find its range throughout the classical world. If I find any good maps or interesting tid-bits of info I'll post them.

Thanks again!

Vale,
Metelliana

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
Salve Metelliana,

How are you? I can answer part of your question as I posted this
site about 10 days ago:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_May_June/Ecoscience__The_
Greek_and_The_Romans_Did_It_Too

Apparently the Ancient Greeks and Romans did quite a job of
deforestation in the Mediterranean area which has been refered to as
goatscape over the years, The deforestation of Northern Europe
apparently began in the 1300's as towns and cities were founded and
grown. Apparently it was awful in the 16th - 18 th century when many
wooden ships were needed for the age of exploration and trade.


Meanwhile the encyclopedia summarizes:


History
Deforestation has been practiced by humans for thousands of years.
Fire was probably the first tool that allowed humans to modify the
landscape. The first evidence of deforestation shows up in the
Mesolithic. Fire was probably used to drive game into more
accessible areas. With the advent of agriculture fire became the
prime tool to clear land for crops. In Europe there is little solid
evidence before 5000 BP. Mesolithic foragers used fire to create
openings for red deer and wild boar. In Britain shade tolerant
species like oak and ash are replaced in the pollen record by
hazels, brambles, grasses and nettles. Removal of the forests led to
decreased transpiration resulting in the formation of upland peat
bogs. Widespread decreased in elm pollen across Europe between 6400-
6300 BP and 5200-5000 BP, starting in southern Europe and gradually
moving north to Britain, may represent land clearing by fire at the
onset of Neolithic agriculture. A large bonfire Fire is a form of
combustion. ... The Mesolithic (Greek mesos=middle and lithos=stone
or the Middle Stone Age) is the period between the Paleolithic and
Neolithic periods. ... World map showing location of Europe Europe
is geologically and geographically a peninsula, forming the
westernmost part of Eurasia. ... (8th millennium BC – 7th millennium
BC – 6th millennium BC – other millennia) Events circa 7000 BC –
Agriculture and settlement at Mehrgarh in South Asia circa 6500 BC –
English Channel formed circa 6100 BC – The Storegga Slide, causing a
megatsunami in the Norwegian Sea circa 6000 BC – Neolithic Age in
Korea circa... Before Present is a year numbering system, used for
the far past times, relating dates to the year 1950. ... In
anthropology, the hunter-gatherer way of life is that led by certain
societies of the Neolithic Era based on the exploitation of wild
plants and animals. ... Binomial name Cervus elaphus Linnaeus,, 1758
Subspecies Numerous - see text. ... Binomial name Sus scrofa
Linnaeus, 1758 The Wild Boar (Sus scrofa) is the wild ancestor of
the domesticated pig. ... Species See List of Quercus species The
term oak can be used as part of the common name of any of several
hundred species of trees and shrubs in the genus Quercus, and some
related genera, notably Lithocarpus. ... Species Many, see text. ...
Pollen under microscope Palynology is the science that studies
contemporary and fossil palynomorphs, including pollen, spores,
dinoflagellate cysts, acritarchs, chitinozoans and scolecodonts,
together with particulate organic matter (POM) and kerogen found in
sedimentary rocks and sediments. ... This article is about the tree;
for other meanings of hazel, see Hazel (disambiguation). ...
Transpiration is a continuous process caused by the evaporation of
water from leaves of plants and its corresponding uptake from roots
in the soil. ... Virgin boreal acid bogs at Browns Lake Bog, Ohio A
bog is a wetland type that accumulates peat, a deposit of dead plant
material. ... Species See text Elms are deciduous trees of the genus
Ulmus, family Ulmaceae. ... The Neolithic, (Greek neos=new,
lithos=stone, or New Stone Age) was a period in the development of
human technology that is traditionally the last part of the Stone
Age. ...

The historic silting of ports along the southern coasts of Asia
Minor (e.g. Clarus) and in coastal Syria during the last centuries
BC, and the famous silting up of the harbor for Bruges, which moved
port commerce to Antwerp, follow periods of increased settlement
growth (and apparently of deforestation) in the river basins of
their hinterlands. Anatolia (Greek: ανατολη anatole, rising of the
sun or East; compare Orient and Levant, by popular etymology Turkish
Anadolu to ana mother and dolu filled), also called by the Latin
name of Asia Minor, is a region of Southwest Asia which corresponds
today to the Asian portion of Turkey. ... The Dogcow The Dogcow is a
bitmapped image first introduced by Apple Computer. ... Sometimes
referred to as the Venice of the North, Bruges has many waterways
that run through the city. ... The hinterland is the rural territory
associated with an urban area, often a port. ...

In Changes in the Land (1983), William Cronon collected 17th century
New England Englishmen's reports of increased seasonal flooding
during the time that the forests were initially cleared, though no
connection was made at the time. One of the best documented and
successful attempts at refosteration was effected by the Prussian
government in the mid-19th century to save the Curonian Spit from
being engulfed by dunes. While the states marked in red show the
core of New England, the regions cultural influence may cover a
greater or lesser area than shown. ... The coat of arms of the
Kingdom of Prussia, 1701-1918 The word Prussia (German: Preußen or
Preussen, Polish: Prusy, Lithuanian: Prūsai, Latin: Borussia) has
had various (often contradictory) meanings: The land of the Baltic
Prussians (in what is now parts of southern Lithuania, the
Kaliningrad exclave of... Curonian Spit map The Curonian Spit
(Lit. ...


Recent change
The rate of clearance increased during the second half of the 19th
century due to agricultural expansion in Europe. Deforestation rates
peaked in New England about 1900 and in the Great Lakes region of
the United States in the late 19th century. Rates of tropical
deforestation have increased substantially into the post-war period
as logging operations became mechanised. Alternative meaning:
Nineteenth Century (periodical) (18th century — 19th century — 20th
century — more centuries) As a means of recording the passage of
time, the 19th century was that century which lasted from 1801-1900
in the sense of the Gregorian calendar. ... World map showing
location of Europe Europe is geologically and geographically a
peninsula, forming the westernmost part of Eurasia. ... The Great
Lakes from space The Great Lakes are a group of five large lakes on
or near the United States-Canadian border. ... This article should
be transwikied to wiktionary The term post-war is generally used for
the period after the end of World War II, i. ...

Growing worldwide demand for wood to be used for fire wood or in
construction, paper and furniture - as well as clearing land for
commercial and industrial development (including road construction)
have combined with growing local populations and their demands for
agricultural expansion and wood fuel to endanger ever larger forest
areas. A tree trunk as found at the Veluwe, The Netherlands Wood is
an organic material found as the primary content of the stems of
woody plants, especially trees, but also shrubs. ... This page is
related to transport; you may be looking for the 2002 Bollywood
movie Road. ...

Agricultural development schemes in Mexico, Brazil and Indonesia
moved large populations into the rainforest zone, further increasing
deforestation rates. One fifth of the world's tropical rainforest
was destroyed between 1960 and 1990. Estimates of deforestation of
tropical forest for the 1990s range from ca. 55,630 km² to ca.
120,000 km² each year. At this rate, all tropical forests may be
gone by the year 2090. Rainforest on Fatu-Hiva, Marquesas Islands A
rainforest is a forested biome with high annual rainfall due to the
Intertropical convergence zone. ... Square kilometre (US spelling:
Square kilometer), symbol km², is an SI unit of surface area. ...


Regards,

QLP





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Salvete,

I have a question. How much contact did Octavius have with his uncle before Caesars death?

Valete,
Metelliana

"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
Salvete!

This is a great topic for conversation. I have heard different views
about Augustus over the years both good and bad but overall I have
come to the conclusion that he was a shrewd politician who was able
to outwit the more military minded generals. The fall of the
republic was a forgone conclusion set in motion before his time.

When I think of Rome's golden age I think of Augustus; under his
administration Rome and her empire were really set on its feet with
Pax Romana. In comparison to other men and emperors of his time I
thought he did vey well. He seemed to be more Stoic in the way he
lived avoiding lavish lifestyles, trying to set some sorts of moral
codes. Even Cleopatra who knocked two tough generals off their feet
was unable to drag the younger Augustus to the sack; if she was the
great intellectual enchantress and beauty by the standards of those
times, she never phased the stronger character of Augustus which
showed that his privates did not rule his brain.

You can find fault with every human in the world; even Mother Teresa
and many writers have mentioned his short comings and weaknesses..
Overall however you did not get to such a position and let alone
hold it for such a long time by being weak in character and stupid
intellectually; in short, my hat goes off to Augustus. I think his
benevolence and service to Rome far exceeds his house cleaning
earlier on.

Now these are just my personal thoughts and do not mean this to be
an academic exercise so I haven't hit the books for quotes,
critiques etc.

Regards.

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, laurent_coffre@b... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> In an effort to keep political and other boring stuff at bay, I
copy below
> something I sent to the Britannia list some time ago when we were
> discussing the role Octavianus played in the fall of the republic.
The
> question, of course, has not been settled so I thought I could
poke around
> and see if some of you would like to comment and offer suggestions
or more
> evidence on what I have written ;-)
> I would be happy to provide my sources if anybody is interested...
>
> So here it goes below,
>
> Valete
>
> Laureatus
>
> xxxxxx
>
> Thank you both for taking interest in the discussion. I would
like, if I
> may, express a couple of things that prompted me to write on this
list
> about Octavius/Octavianus/Caesar/Augustus.
>
> Quite apart from any other consideration, his very name, as seen
above, has
> evolved over the years reflecting perhaps that the young man and
the older
> stateman were quite different. It may also indicate that Augustus
knew how
> to adapt to the different situations he faced and made the right
choice at
> the right time, ie phasing out Octavianus for Caesar. Both
cognomina were
> already in his full name but he chose the latter to be addressed
when he
> started his political career. In other words, he knew what he was
doing and
> what trick to use to gather popular support.
> But he could also have done so to honour the memory of his
assassinated
> “father” so the revenge argument is also valid.
>
> The young Octavianus was only 18 when Caesar died. I don’t know
about you
> but when I was 18, I was nowhere near capable enough of mounting a
> succesful coup! One could argue that Romans matured faster (?) or
rather
> that their abilities as adults were recognised earlier so that
Octavius was
> seen as an equal by his peers. But I doubt that. I have read that
he was
> not immune against mockery and there seems to be indications that
some
> Senators did not take him seriously. Indeed, it is good to
remember that
> the most junior magistracy, the quaestorship, was not available
for men
> under the age of 30. So it is very possible to imagine that when
Octavius
> arrived in Rome he had a hard time to convince people that he
would be a
> serious contendant.
>
> Furthermore, Octavius came from a relatively unknown family with no
> consular to speak of. He had done nothing in particular to be
noticed by
> his contemporaries, he had held no office, fought no battles. He
was too
> young and a nobody. Of course age is not always relevant: One can
turn to
> other examples of young men achieving great things, Alexander or
Bonaparte
> for instance. Those two generals, however, were exceptional
soldiers and
> earned their legitimacy for their later rule through their
abilities and
> successes in war. Octavius did not have this opportunity.
> If I had been a bookmaker in the summer of 44BC, I don’t think I
would have
> bet my old shirt on him to rule the Urbs.
>
> So, how did he do it? Did he have plans laid out and set out to
usurp
> power? Did he really want revenge against the murderers of his
“father”
> when no one else of substance and other relatives and friends
stood up to
> do just that? Did he get caught in the events and was lucky,
sometimes
> ruthless, in his decision making so that he would survive?
>
> I do not have an answer but I would investigate the matter along
two lines
> that could shed some light on my questions:
>
> 1. He was Caesar’s heir. That, in my opinion, is the single most
important
> fact to explain his head start. Just by having been adopted,
Octavius had
> at his disposal a colossal fortune, the largest numbers of clients
who
> passed traditionally from the deceased patron to his heir and the
support
> of Caesar’s veterans. This would certainly be enough for anybody
to
> emphasize the “Caesar” part of one’s name to take full
advantage of the
> situation. Antonius, it must be said, was not fooled and,
unsuccesfully,
> tried to keep the fortune and manage it “on behalf” of the
heir…
>
> 2. Octavianus, the triumvir, and Augustus, the princeps, built
some kind of
> unwritten “constitution” (the word is ill chosen, please
forgive me) that
> looked more like a patchwork than a planned project. He took the
old
> Republican institutions, kept their democratic appearance but
tweaked them
> so that, effectively, he retained and centralised power long
enough in the
> hand of one man, his own, to acquire enough dignitas and wealth.
Then as
> the ultimate patron he yielded enough influence over his clients,
or
> subjects, who comprised by then the whole citizen body.
>
> My instinct, at this point is to think the following. A very
intelligent
> and shrewd young man inherits the greatest wealth and influence of
the then
> known world. These were troubled times, and although he might not
have
> wanted it, he had to use the resources at his disposal first to
survive,
> then to consolidate his power so that he would not be threatened.
Colossal
> resources called for colossal changes. It is worth noting that the
ageing
> Augustus took great pains to ensure a return to morals and was more
> inclined to clementia when his ennemies were no more. He did not
need to be
> ruthless anymore, he did not fear for his life anymore.
> The only thing we can be disappointed with, as modern students and
with
> hindsight, is that he did not restore the Republic when peace and
posperity
> had returned. Perhaps we could discuss that in another thread but
I doubt
> the question really bothered the 90% of the non elite population
who were
> probably better off and rather prefered to give away some of the
liberty
> they never had for a peace they could feel!
>
> So, in conclusion, who is to blame for the principate, if there is
blame to
> be assigned? Octavius who navigated the troubled water or the
conditions
> that created the heavy seas? And to go back to the original
question,
> linked to the previous one: Was Octavius a conscious tyrant or
simply a man
> of his time playing the cards life had dealt him?
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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attachments is confidential and may also be legally privileged. It
is intended only for the use of the named recipient.
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore British
American Tobacco does not accept legal responsibility for the
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immediately and then delete this document. Do not disclose the
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Metelliana,

JOEY NICOLE KING wrote:

> I have a question. How much contact did Octavius have with his uncle before Caesars death?

A fair amount. Octavianus went on campaign with his uncle for a year in
Spain, and at least according to Octavianus they had a lot of time
together in which the uncle taught the nephew. It was during this time
that Caesar the Dictator decided to name Octavianus as his heir and to
adopt him.

Vale,

-- Marinus

As far as Cleopara VII is concerned as we have had
this discussion in the past,an intellectual she was-
albeit lingua latina, a raving beauty she was not.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <metelliana@...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I have a question. How much contact did Octavius

have with his uncle befor

> e Caesars death?
>
> Valete,
> Metelliana
>
> "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"

<mjk@...> wrote:

> Salvete!
>
> This is a great topic for conversation. I have heard

different views

> about Augustus over the years both good and bad but

overall I have

> come to the conclusion that he was a shrewd

politician who was able

> to outwit the more military minded generals. The

fall of the

> republic was a forgone conclusion set in motion

before his time.

>
> When I think of Rome's golden age I think of

Augustus; under his

> administration Rome and her empire were really set

on its feet with

> Pax Romana. In comparison to other men and emperors

of his time I

> thought he did vey well. He seemed to be more Stoic

in the way he

> lived avoiding lavish lifestyles, trying to set some

sorts of moral

> codes. Even Cleopatra who knocked two tough generals

off their feet

> was unable to drag the younger Augustus to the sack;

if she was the

> great intellectual enchantress and beauty by the

standards of those

> times, she never phased the stronger character of

Augustus which

> showed that his privates did not rule his brain.
>
> You can find fault with every human in the world;

even Mother Teresa

> and many writers have mentioned his short comings

and weaknesses..

> Overall however you did not get to such a position

and let alone

> hold it for such a long time by being weak in

character and stupid

> intellectually; in short, my hat goes off to

Augustus. I think his

> benevolence and service to Rome far exceeds his

house cleaning

> earlier on.
>
> Now these are just my personal thoughts and do not

mean this to be

> an academic exercise so I haven't hit the books for

quotes,

> critiques etc.
>
> Regards.
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,

laurent_coffre@b... wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > In an effort to keep political and other boring

stuff at bay, I

> copy below
> > something I sent to the Britannia list some time

ago when we were

> > discussing the role Octavianus played in the fall

of the republic.

> The
> > question, of course, has not been settled so I

thought I could

> poke around
> > and see if some of you would like to comment and

offer suggestions

> or more
> > evidence on what I have written ;-)
> > I would be happy to provide my sources if anybody

is interested...

> >
> > So here it goes below,
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Laureatus
> >
> > xxxxxx
> >
> > Thank you both for taking interest in the

discussion. I would

> like, if I
> > may, express a couple of things that prompted me

to write on this

> list
> > about Octavius/Octavianus/Caesar/Augustus.

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> As far as Cleopara VII is concerned as we have had
> this discussion in the past,an intellectual she was-
> albeit lingua latina, a raving beauty she was not.
>

Salvete omnes,

Well from her busts and coins I would agree but she was not a beauty
by the standards of "our time" but maybe was considered attractive
then. Look back to the "beauties" from the 19th century , to the
court of Henry VIII, medieval portraits, the Medicis etc and they
are not attractive in comparisson to fashion models and starlets
today;
even during the 17th and 18th century plumpness or obesity was
considered beautiful, not to mention dark skin moles. I cannot help
but wonder what people of the past would view our standards of
beauty today!

Regards,

QLP

Saluete, romani

Ego sum ualde curiosus sciendi quot ciues in Nova Roma nunc sunt? Septembrem mensem exspecto ut ciuis romanus fiam.

I am from Portugal: is there any other portuguese in Nova Roma?

Valete optume

Lucius Iulius Lusus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and here are the results:

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm



Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern ones:

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm



She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern ones :-)

Valete bene,

Cato

(all images copywrite by http://sangha.net/messengers/)

>
> Well from her busts and coins I would agree but she was not a

beauty

> by the standards of "our time" but maybe was considered attractive
> then.

Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST BE
dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
Ptolomies
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

> G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and here

are the results:

>
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm
>
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm
>
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm
>
>
>
> Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern ones:
>
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm
>
>
>
> She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern ones

:-)

>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> (all images copywrite by

http://sangha.net/messengers/)

>
>
>
> >
> > Well from her busts and coins I would agree but

she was not a

> beauty
> > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was

considered attractive

> > then.
>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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VICESIMA QUARTA
The Newsletter of
LEGION XXIV - MEDIA ATLANTIA

AUGUST 2005

Gallio Velius Marsallas / George Metz
Praefectus - Commander
13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073-3014
610-353-4982
legionxxiv@... www.legionxxiv.org

Commilitones

ADVENAE - Newcomers
*** Salvatore Nardozzi,Jr, Septimus Severius Salvatoriensis Caecus, with a Roman name like that you would think he is a lawyer, and guess what? - He is!, in the Scranton PA area. Got a legal problem? - contact him at harley61@... Septimus Servius is also a Roman cook, now that is a real asset to the Legion! He is actively pursuing getting his kit together and we look forward to having him, and his cooking, with us soon.
*** Mark Clauser, Marcus Claudius Tacitus mclauser@... comes to us from Easton, PA. He is a Latin instructor and a fluent Latin speaker, and is a 3-year veteran of the Conventiculum Latinum in Lexington KY - there will be no more sloppy Latin in our camp, when he is around! He is also a Roman cook, the second one to apply to the Legion this month! Although he has little reenactment experience, Marcus Claudius is a lover of all things Roman and with his Latin and cooking skills, he should be an asset to our ranks.
*** With these two prospective Roman cooks, we may see an improvement in our campaign food after all, at those events where we don't have Merlinia and the Campbells cooking for us.
*** Erik Herb, Caius Gallus Hiberus grunt762@... is from Mar Lin, (north-central) PA. He is a sergeant in the PA National Guard and hopes to enhance his interest in ancient history with us.
*** John Beneduce magnus1357@... hails from Kings (Brooklyn) NY. He has experience in the martial arts, wrestling and boxing, and may find his calling with the Ludus Magnus, under John Ebel, but we are not going turn away a potential fierce defender of Rome. Celts, Barbarians and Enemies of Rome Beware!
*** Daniel Ingersoll ares424@... of Woodbine, NJ is signing on as a student-squire. He has researched all reenacting periods, but wants to learn about the Roman military and its culture as he studies Latin in school. We look forward to him being with us in future campaigns.
*** Joseph Perkins, Tiberius Aetius seth@... will be serving as a vexillation unit in Pikin, LA. He is interested in the gladiatorial and fighting techniques of Rome. We hope have with us when comes north sometime.

Please join me in welcoming these new members to our ranks.

LEGION XXIV ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL ON LABOR DAY !!
VCR Alert!! Several members from Legions III Cyrenaica, XXIV MA and XXX Ulpia Victrix, took part in the filming of the upcoming two-hour History Channel Special "Rome: Engineering an Empire" to be broadcast on Monday, September 5 (Labor Day) 9:00 PM. The sequences about "Caesar bridging the Rhine River", in which we took part, comprises the first act of this two-hour program, so all of the hard work from our weekend of shooting on the Hudson is featured in the first ten minutes.
It will be interesting to see how much of two whole days (22 hours) of filming sessions actually made it into the final production.
The History Channel has started advertisements, billboards and posters promoting the show which you may have already seen. The network has also created a website: http://www.historychannel.com/rome/
We did insist on using only hamata ring maile armor (no segmentata), but a few imperial helmets and Pompeii swords may be visible. The producers, KPI out of New York City, gave us little time to prepare and there was not enough Republican gear to go around. Your Commander appears as the Centurion-Engineer in the episode, with Robert Norton, Mike Heenen, Lee Holeva, Quinton Johanson and others taking part, along with a group of SCA barbarians with whom we do battle. It was quite an interesting and exhausting experience and we hope you will tune us in on the History Channel on Labor Day with your VCR's and TVO's recording it! As an added note, they seem to be tying the "Engineering" program to the HBO weekly series "ROME", which begins on August 28. You will need to be subscribed to HBO to see this "ROME" 12 episode series. The episodes will be shown several times at varying hours each week. Many of us do not have HBO so we will be unable to see it. Anyone who has HBO might want to capture it to DVD or tape and make copies available. That is, if it is reasonably accurate and worth the trouble to save it. Maybe then we can get together some date to view it - and critique it - both what they got right and what they got wrong.

POMPEII EXHIBIT OTTAWA EVENT AFTER-ACTION - AUGUST 6 & 7
The Canadian Museum (Musee) of Civilization, in Ottawa, Ontario Canada, played host to a large exhibit on Pompeii as it was at the time of the eruption of the "Vesuvius" Volcano in 79AD. The Museum, actually in Gatineau, Quebec across the Ottawa River from Ottawa, is one of the biggest in Eastern Canada. The building, while modern in design, is quite impressive and the Totem Pole display in the Great Hall was awesome. The Pompeii Exhibit was also well worth seeing, along with the many other displays alluding the Canada's history. The Musee asked to have Roman reenactors, both military and civilian, for the weekend of August 6 & 7. This was the weekend after the Fort Malden event in Amherstburg Ontario. However, a number of legionaries and civilians did turn-out in Ottawa. Not as many as was hoped, but we were able to present a decent impression for the several thousand museum patrons who came into the courtyard to view the encampments, pila tossing and catapulta shooting.
Arrangements were made to accommodate most if not all with a room to sleep in. A financial compensation was also provided for the adult participants. The Museum supplied bails of hay for the pilum shooting range and encampments.
Marc Sarault - Marcus Darius Firmitus - of Legion XII Fulminata did a superb job in organizing the reenactors for the event.

Robert Norton - Servius Rustius Noricus - of Legion XXX Ulpia Victrix conducted a workshop inside the museum making caligae, belts and other Roman military gear. He also served to direct the patrons to the outdoor encampments. Robert got to practice his French in a real time environment, and learned that he was much better at French than he thought, and not as good as he would like to be. Robert's demo itself went very well, but he found that he was spending more time answering questions than working. He may have broken a record for answering the same question in French and English. The record for the most concurrent questions to Robert/Servius was from a 12 year old boy who wanted to know everything and anything about the Romans. His funniest question was from a French lady, about his age (over 39), who wanted to know what he was wearing under his tunica.
The people who stopped to watch or ask questions were great, but all of them were surprised when he allowed them to touch the equipment. Also many of them were taken aback when they found out that we did not take money to have our their picture taken with us. He did get to do some work, however. He finished the sole on one sandal(caligae), and built two sword straps(balteus). He repaired shoes for two different women, and made adjustments to the belts of about ten Asian men (word gets around). He came to realize that when he was working, he was ignoring the people, so he would work until a crowd gathered then answer questions until the crowds were gone...He got about one hour's work done in the two days! So many children wanted to try on the equipment, that Legion XXX has decided to build some small versions of their equipment for the next season.
Bob wishes to take this opportunity to thank both Pam Cross and Genevieve for their help, patience, and resourcefulness in bringing this event to a successful conclusion.

Our trusty Quinton Johanson of Legion XXIV and Lee Holeva of Legion XXX, along with others and wives and children were kept busy answering may inquiries about our equipment, weapons and the Roman Military. There was there with his new chariot, along with two horses to pose with it. The original chariot was lost in an auto accident and the new one was even better than the first, however, the chariot did suffer a collapse on Saturday afternoon when several portly Roman senators and politicians climbed aboard for some pictures. It was repaired on Sunday morning and served well throughout the day.

Both days were warm and pleasant, with reasonable humidity. On Saturday the troops did two tacticals, but with only four soldiers, it really did not come-off all that well, so on Sunday no tacticals were held, but ongoing pila drills, catapulta demonstrations and camp lectures seemed to keep the public satisfied. The siege engines of Legions XXIV and XXX were kept busy during both days serving up lengthy shots of SCA arrow bolts and tennis balls. Due to the lack of a protected range, shots with serious "live round" arrow bolt and dart ammunition were curtailed to only a few. A high point for XXIV's Engine of Terror came on Saturday morning when a prototype arrow-dart was sent an estimated 300 feet, sailing well beyond the limits of the range. Unfortunately, the dart point broke off upon impact and due to the unsecured shooting area, no further attempts were made with the arrow-darts.

WEBSTER TIMELINE EVENT AFTER ACTION REPORT
Senator Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens submitted this report on his attendance at this event, which took place while the Commander and trooper "Quinius" Johanson were up north at the Pompeii Exhibit in Ottawa, Ontario.
Our thanks to Senator and Engineer Audens for his report.

To: Commander Legio XXIV and Commander Legio III "Cyrenaica"
I arrived at the Webster Military Timeline Event on Sunday in mid-morning with my driver and pack train. The Legio III "Cyrenaica" milles were already on-site, with tents and displays already set up. I quickly added my small number of elements to the display, which included a papyrus map of the Eastern Roman Empire, models of a signal /survey tower, a pontoon bridge, and a "pier" bridge, and some miscellaneous weapons both real and practice.
Due to the one day at the event, I did not set up my field office as usual, but rather enjoyed the shelter of the Optio's tent and fly. My thanks to the Legion III Optio for his very kind hospitality and initiation to this event.
Once set up, I took a young member of the Auxila, and two slings, and took them down to the pond to practice. Our practice session was not all that successful, and after about an hour returned to the Legio camp.
Towards the end of the day as the area cleared of other reenactors, the Legionaries and Auxila practiced with spears and Pilums. The Legio's new Auxila Scout produced his sling which was of a different design, and looked to be more efficient and better constructed. He generously offered the new sling for practice and the results were excellent, far better than before at the pond. So much so, that I have determined to build another sling along the same design.
In the mid-afternoon, we were about the only remaining unit on the hill, so with the lack of spectators, and the practice with spear and pilum over, we began to break camp. My pac train and driver arriving at the appointed time. We packed the camp and departed shortly thereafter.
Again my thanks to the Optio of Legio III "Cyrenaica" for his kind invitation and kinder hospitality. It was much appreciated.
Legio III suggestions discussed at the event:
---- Expansion of the "miles Immunes" part of the legio, with their particular skills displayed;
----Pursuit of the slingers and archers and their equipment / weapons / dress as part of the Auxila;
---"Roma Victrix!!!"---
Respectfully Submitted;
Marcus Minucius-Tiberius Audens


TIME LINE at CHARLESTOWN, NH SEPT 24-25
Ed Jadaszewski would like to put out an invitation to a time line event at "The Fort at #4" this September 24-25, 2005.
The event is in Charlestown, New Hampshire on the Vermont border. The site is beautiful and reenactment-friendly, and they hope to make this an annual event. Suttlers and any kinds of period demos are also welcomed, and of course, camping and campfires are permitted. For more information, the website is http://www.fortat4.com , and please contact Eric if you are interested, jrjada@....

CASTRA ROMANA NOV. 4 - 6
From Rusty Myers, Justus Rustius Longinus, 843-437-5587 justuslonginus@... of Legio VI Ferrata Fidelas Constans.


Knowing it is a bit of a drive for most, we are pulling out all the stops (including lots of new stuff!!) to make this an experience you will not want to miss, and will never forget!

While this event will be advertised and open to the public, our primary goal is to provide a unique experience to our participants. To this end we have a great number of events which will interest the Roman Reenactor, be they soldier or civilian! This will include a period smithy, Roman Vendors, potter, baker, Presentations, and more. If you have a unique impression you would like to bring and add, please contact us. There is no cost to our participants for any of the events they can participate in or for the encampment itself. The last years have been an outstanding success, and this year will be even better!

Soldiers will get the opportunity to drill and train with double weighted weapons, throw live pila on the pila range, practice live sword (against a post of course!), in addition to participating in Needlefelt mock combat both on the drill field for spectators Saturday, and in the woods on Sunday, you will see the Gladiators in the arena in daylight, and at a special torchlight nighttime match just before the Grand Convivia! We will also have Military Games, a 1.5 mile road march (there are Celts about... bring your Needlefelts), guard mount, pay issue (yes, you will get your 75 Denarii... minus a bit for the Centurion...), and more.

The highlight of the event will be the Centurios Convivium, a grande Roman Banquet prepared by our gourmet Roman Chef the Lady Helvia Elena Claudilla, and hosted by the Centurio. Ask anyone about our feast! The food alone is worth the drive!

Average Temperature in November in South Carolina is 65-75 degrees. In addition there are few if any events on the calendar for that period of time. Plus the mosquitoes are mostly dead! Legio VI will be onsite Thursday the 3rd to Monday the 7th, but you should try to arrive sometime Thursday or Friday unless you are setting up a special event or station. Re-enacting events start Friday night. Vendors are welcome to set up a display, but we ask that they remain in period as much as they are able, and you must contact us as soon as possible. We have limited room for vendors, but will endeavor to accommodate you in the period market, or vendor row. Remember this event is being planned for the participants, so we need you to attend! Please RSVP via EMAIL by October 1st with firm numbers if at all possible (this is so we can plan the feast).

It is our sincerest hope you will plan to attend. We will have an excellent time, and want you to be there to celebrate the growth of Roman Living Archeology, at the best Castra Romana EVER!








FOR SALE
Charles Pecquet of Legion XX is selling his kit as a set, with an asking price of $1500. Deepeeka Gallic H helmet (a good one, before they ruined the back!), Museum Replicas "Newstead" lorica, plus scutum, Pompeii gladius, tunic, caligae, belt with pugio, pilum, cloak with pin, pack pole and bag, and a canteen. Contact him for photos and more details, thepecquets@...
or 504-276-9001.


AND PLEASE REMEMBER to keep me updated on your e-mail, phone and other address info. If your e-mail
goes bad and I don't have any other info, you become "MIA" "Missing in Action", or more likely "Inaction"
and I do have a number of those, way too many, already.
Please advise me of your status and continued interest in the Legion? legionxxiv@...
Thank you for your attention to this.

UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS for LEGION XXIV and OTHER EVENTS for 2005
These events are not on our official schedule, but our members are most encouraged to take part.
*** September 24-25 Time Line Event at Fort #4, Charlestown, NH contact Eric, jrjada@....
*** October 22-23 Possible Ren Faire appearance, Waterloo Village, Netcong, NJ, I-80-exit 25 11AM-5PM
*** November 4-6 Castra Romana of Legio VI Ferrata Fidelas Constans, Givhans State Park in South Carolina.
Rusty Myers, Justus Rustius Longinus, 843-437-5587 justuslonginus@...

Thanking you for your continued support of Legion XXIV, I remain;

Yours in the Bonds of Ancient Rome

Gallio / George



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve
well the Cornelia are still here. some of us.
vale



Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<dianaaventina@y...> wrote:

> Salve Piscinus,
>
> < We did not leave due to the
> > superabundance of
> > regulation, but over how some magistrates did not
> > abide by those
> > regulae and instead abused the authority of their
> > offices. Old
> > issues I won't go into again.
>
> There are also a bunch of citizens who left because of
> you. You do bring a wealth of information back with
> you and for that I am glad. You've brought new life to
> the Religio list. It's too bad that the citizens of
> Gens Cornelia don't come back as well.
>
> The old NR of 1999-2001, no longer exists. Even with
> the fighting that took place, at least this place had
> spirit....
>
> Diana Octavia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

SALVETE OMNES !

When I have looking to the links, I saw a painting of Alma Tadema. Very nice paintings. I saw that paintings somewhere in the spring, and, I use one or two to the aedilis cohors web site. For all who are interested in paintings - a link :
http://www.goodart.org/artoflat.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and here are the results:

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm



Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern ones:

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm



She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern ones :-)

Valete bene,

Cato

(all images copywrite by http://sangha.net/messengers/)

>
> Well from her busts and coins I would agree but she was not a

beauty

> by the standards of "our time" but maybe was considered attractive
> then.

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SALVE !

I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark. Don't forget her
genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia. Ptolomeu I Soter was
general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the 7th Cleopatra from
the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.

VALE,
IVL SABINVS


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
> correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST BE
> dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> Ptolomies
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> >
> > Salvete omnes.
> >
> > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and here
> are the results:
> >
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm
> >
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm
> >
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern ones:
> >
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern ones
> :-)
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > (all images copywrite by
> http://sangha.net/messengers/)
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Well from her busts and coins I would agree but
> she was not a
> > beauty
> > > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was
> considered attractive
> > > then.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

SALVE !

Look what I find about this topic :

"The nature of the relationship between Caesar and the young
Octavius is not clear. Dio claims (45.1.2) that after Octavius
reached maturity (in 48 BC), Caesar took him in and began training
him to be his successor. This assertion is clearly more informed by
later imperial behavior than by Late Republican practice, and is
unlikely in any case, since Caesar was much occupied with the civil
wars at this time (49-45 BC). There is no evidence that the two
actually met before Octavius was in his mid-teens, but that the
dictator noticed Octavius is hardly to be doubted. Suetonius (Aug.
8.1) presents a more likely series of events. In 48 BC the young
Octavius was elected to the pontifical college. When Caesar
celebrated his multiple triumphs in September 46 BC, Octavius took
part in the procession and was accorded military honors. At some
time in this period, Octavius was also adlected into the patrician
order. He then followed Caesar to Spain when the latter went to
fight the Pompeians at Munda (45 BC). He earned the admiration of
the dictator for the daring of his journey, which included a
shipwreck; he was to show this same daring repeatedly in future
months and years. In 44 BC Caesar nominated the magistrates several
years in advance (another shunning of tradition on Caesar's part),
and the young man was included as his Master of Horse for 43 or 42
BC. Despite these indications of favor, it is fair to say that in
the broad scheme of things Octavius was a non-player and a political
nobody in March 44 BC, when his great-uncle was killed."

OPTIME VALE,
IVL SABINVS



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, JOEY NICOLE KING <metelliana@y...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I have a question. How much contact did Octavius have with his

uncle before Caesars death?

>
> Valete,
> Metelliana
>
> "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salvete!
>
> This is a great topic for conversation. I have heard different

views

> about Augustus over the years both good and bad but overall I have
> come to the conclusion that he was a shrewd politician who was

able

> to outwit the more military minded generals. The fall of the
> republic was a forgone conclusion set in motion before his time.
>
> When I think of Rome's golden age I think of Augustus; under his
> administration Rome and her empire were really set on its feet

with

> Pax Romana. In comparison to other men and emperors of his time I
> thought he did vey well. He seemed to be more Stoic in the way he
> lived avoiding lavish lifestyles, trying to set some sorts of

moral

> codes. Even Cleopatra who knocked two tough generals off their

feet

> was unable to drag the younger Augustus to the sack; if she was

the

> great intellectual enchantress and beauty by the standards of

those

> times, she never phased the stronger character of Augustus which
> showed that his privates did not rule his brain.
>
> You can find fault with every human in the world; even Mother

Teresa

> and many writers have mentioned his short comings and weaknesses..
> Overall however you did not get to such a position and let alone
> hold it for such a long time by being weak in character and stupid
> intellectually; in short, my hat goes off to Augustus. I think his
> benevolence and service to Rome far exceeds his house cleaning
> earlier on.
>
> Now these are just my personal thoughts and do not mean this to be
> an academic exercise so I haven't hit the books for quotes,
> critiques etc.
>
> Regards.
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, laurent_coffre@b... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > In an effort to keep political and other boring stuff at bay, I
> copy below
> > something I sent to the Britannia list some time ago when we were
> > discussing the role Octavianus played in the fall of the

republic.

> The
> > question, of course, has not been settled so I thought I could
> poke around
> > and see if some of you would like to comment and offer

suggestions

> or more
> > evidence on what I have written ;-)
> > I would be happy to provide my sources if anybody is

interested...

> >
> > So here it goes below,
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Laureatus
> >
> > xxxxxx
> >
> > Thank you both for taking interest in the discussion. I would
> like, if I
> > may, express a couple of things that prompted me to write on

this

> list
> > about Octavius/Octavianus/Caesar/Augustus.
> >
> > Quite apart from any other consideration, his very name, as seen
> above, has
> > evolved over the years reflecting perhaps that the young man and
> the older
> > stateman were quite different. It may also indicate that

Augustus

> knew how
> > to adapt to the different situations he faced and made the right
> choice at
> > the right time, ie phasing out Octavianus for Caesar. Both
> cognomina were
> > already in his full name but he chose the latter to be addressed
> when he
> > started his political career. In other words, he knew what he

was

> doing and
> > what trick to use to gather popular support.
> > But he could also have done so to honour the memory of his
> assassinated
> > “father” so the revenge argument is also valid.
> >
> > The young Octavianus was only 18 when Caesar died. I don’t

know

> about you
> > but when I was 18, I was nowhere near capable enough of mounting

a

> > succesful coup! One could argue that Romans matured faster (?)

or

> rather
> > that their abilities as adults were recognised earlier so that
> Octavius was
> > seen as an equal by his peers. But I doubt that. I have read

that

> he was
> > not immune against mockery and there seems to be indications

that

> some
> > Senators did not take him seriously. Indeed, it is good to
> remember that
> > the most junior magistracy, the quaestorship, was not available
> for men
> > under the age of 30. So it is very possible to imagine that when
> Octavius
> > arrived in Rome he had a hard time to convince people that he
> would be a
> > serious contendant.
> >
> > Furthermore, Octavius came from a relatively unknown family with

no

> > consular to speak of. He had done nothing in particular to be
> noticed by
> > his contemporaries, he had held no office, fought no battles. He
> was too
> > young and a nobody. Of course age is not always relevant: One

can

> turn to
> > other examples of young men achieving great things, Alexander or
> Bonaparte
> > for instance. Those two generals, however, were exceptional
> soldiers and
> > earned their legitimacy for their later rule through their
> abilities and
> > successes in war. Octavius did not have this opportunity.
> > If I had been a bookmaker in the summer of 44BC, I don’t think

I

> would have
> > bet my old shirt on him to rule the Urbs.
> >
> > So, how did he do it? Did he have plans laid out and set out to
> usurp
> > power? Did he really want revenge against the murderers of his
> “father”
> > when no one else of substance and other relatives and friends
> stood up to
> > do just that? Did he get caught in the events and was lucky,
> sometimes
> > ruthless, in his decision making so that he would survive?
> >
> > I do not have an answer but I would investigate the matter along
> two lines
> > that could shed some light on my questions:
> >
> > 1. He was Caesar’s heir. That, in my opinion, is the single

most

> important
> > fact to explain his head start. Just by having been adopted,
> Octavius had
> > at his disposal a colossal fortune, the largest numbers of

clients

> who
> > passed traditionally from the deceased patron to his heir and

the

> support
> > of Caesar’s veterans. This would certainly be enough for

anybody

> to
> > emphasize the “Caesar” part of one’s name to take full
> advantage of the
> > situation. Antonius, it must be said, was not fooled and,
> unsuccesfully,
> > tried to keep the fortune and manage it “on behalf” of the
> heir…
> >
> > 2. Octavianus, the triumvir, and Augustus, the princeps, built
> some kind of
> > unwritten “constitution” (the word is ill chosen, please
> forgive me) that
> > looked more like a patchwork than a planned project. He took the
> old
> > Republican institutions, kept their democratic appearance but
> tweaked them
> > so that, effectively, he retained and centralised power long
> enough in the
> > hand of one man, his own, to acquire enough dignitas and wealth.
> Then as
> > the ultimate patron he yielded enough influence over his

clients,

> or
> > subjects, who comprised by then the whole citizen body.
> >
> > My instinct, at this point is to think the following. A very
> intelligent
> > and shrewd young man inherits the greatest wealth and influence

of

> the then
> > known world. These were troubled times, and although he might

not

> have
> > wanted it, he had to use the resources at his disposal first to
> survive,
> > then to consolidate his power so that he would not be

threatened.

> Colossal
> > resources called for colossal changes. It is worth noting that

the

> ageing
> > Augustus took great pains to ensure a return to morals and was

more

> > inclined to clementia when his ennemies were no more. He did not
> need to be
> > ruthless anymore, he did not fear for his life anymore.
> > The only thing we can be disappointed with, as modern students

and

> with
> > hindsight, is that he did not restore the Republic when peace

and

> posperity
> > had returned. Perhaps we could discuss that in another thread

but

> I doubt
> > the question really bothered the 90% of the non elite population
> who were
> > probably better off and rather prefered to give away some of the
> liberty
> > they never had for a peace they could feel!
> >
> > So, in conclusion, who is to blame for the principate, if there

is

> blame to
> > be assigned? Octavius who navigated the troubled water or the
> conditions
> > that created the heavy seas? And to go back to the original
> question,
> > linked to the previous one: Was Octavius a conscious tyrant or
> simply a man
> > of his time playing the cards life had dealt him?
> >
> >
>

_____________________________________________________________________

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> attachments is confidential and may also be legally privileged. It
> is intended only for the use of the named recipient.
> > Internet communications are not secure and therefore British
> American Tobacco does not accept legal responsibility for the
> contents of this message.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
> immediately and then delete this document. Do not disclose the
> contents of this document to any other person, nor take any copies.
> > Violation of this notice may be unlawful.
> >
>

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G. Equitius Cato T. Iulio Sabino quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

"At the age of four he lost his father [59 B.C.]. In his twelfth year
he delivered a funeral oration to the assembled people in honour of
his grandmother Julia. Four years later, after assuming the gown of
manhood, he received military prizes at Caesar's African triumph,
although he had taken no part in the war on account of his youth. When
his uncle presently went to Spain to engage the sons of Pompeius [46
B.C.], although Augustus had hardly yet recovered his strength after a
severe illness, he followed over roads beset by the enemy with only a
very few companions, and that too after suffering shipwreck, and
thereby greatly endeared himself to Caesar, who soon formed a high
opinion of his character over and above the energy with which he had
made the journey. When Caesar, after recovering the Spanish provinces,
planned an expedition against the Dacians and then against the
Parthians, Augustus, who had been sent on in advance to Apollonia,
devoted his leisure to study. As soon as he learned that his uncle had
been slain and that he was his heir [44 B.C.], he was in doubt for
some time whether to appeal to the nearest legions, but gave up the
idea as hasty and premature. He did, however, return to the city and
enter upon his inheritance, in spite of the doubts of his mother and
the strong opposition of his stepfather, the ex-consul Marcius
Philippus. Then he levied armies and henceforth ruled the State, at
first with Marcus Antonius and Marcus Lepidus, then with Antonius
alone for nearly twelve years, and finally by himself for forty-four."
- Seutonius, The Lives of the Caesars, "The Deified Augustus" 8

So it appears that Octavius was not sure of his position after
Caesar's death; this would only be true if, as the author quoted by
Sabinus, he was not yet a real "player" in the quagmire of Roman
politics.

"When Caesar's will was read, however, Antony received a nasty shock.
In it Caesar named as his chief heir a virtual unknown by the name of
C. Octavius, adopting him (posthumously) as his son. Octavius was
Caesar's grand-nephew on his sister's side, a rather sickly
18-year-old with only limited political and military experience. Upon
his adoption, Octavius became C. Julius Caesar Octavianus (or, in
English, simply Octavian). Antony might well have expected little
trouble in dealing with a youth of so little experience, few political
connections, and virtually no personal authority. Unfortunately,
Antony failed to recognize that in Octavian he was dealing with a
natural born politician. Octavian never was an imposing figure
physically, and he owed his military victories largely to the skill of
his able lieutenants." - John Porter, University of Saskatchewan, 1995

This idea is bolstered by letters written by Cicero:

"....But I would like to know, how was the arrival of Octavius,
whether there was any crowd rushing to him, whether there was any
suspicion of a revolution. I think not, indeed; but nevertheless,
whatever it was like, I want to know...." - Cicero to Atticus (Ad Att.
14.5) Apr. 11, 44 B.C. Astura

"....Octavius came to Naples on April 18...[and it is reported that]
he will accept his inheritance. But, as you write, that will be a
great quarrel with Antony!..." - Cicero to Atticus (Ad Att. 14.10)
Apr. 19, 44 B.C. Cumae

"....With us here, full of respect and full of friendship, is
Octavius, whom his own people greet as Caesar; but [his host] does
not, and so we do not either. That I deny to be possible for a good
citizen. So many stand around us, who even threaten our friends with
death....What do you judge [will happen], when the boy comes to Rome,
where our liberators are not able to be safe? They, indeed, always
will be famous, and in the consciousness of their deed even happy. But
we, unless I am deceived, shall fall flat...." - Cicero to Atticus (Ad
Att. 14.12) Apr. 22, 44 B.C. Puteoli

"....From Octavian every day there is a letter—that I undertake
his business, that I come to Capua, that a second time I save the Res
Publica, that anyway I come to Rome....He has however acted very
vigorously, and he is still. To Rome he will come with a great army,
but he is so clearly a boy!...." - Cicero to Atticus (Ad Att. 16.11)
Nov. 5, 44 B.C. Puteoli

And further supported by letters written by Brutus:

"....Beyond your prudence—which you have in abundance—nothing
from you is asked for except moderation in the giving out of high
offices. All other things you have so much that with those of anyone
you like of the ancients your good qualities could be compared: this
one thing, from a grateful and generous spirit begun, is asked for: a
more cautious and a more moderate generosity. For in no way ought the
Senate to give to anyone what for those thinking in an evil way might
provide an example or an advantage. And so I fear, concerning the
consulship, lest that Caesar of yours think that he has climbed up so
high, by your decrees, that from there—if he is made
consul—he might
not climb down." - Brutus to Cicero (Ad Brut. 11) May 15, 43 B.C.

"That in every case Cicero has acted with the best spirit, I know; for
what to me could be more convincing than his spirit regarding the Res
Publica?....I don't know what to write to you except this one thing:
the boy's greediness and lawlessness have rather been excited than
repressed by Cicero, and he has handed over to him such a great amount
of indulgence, that he cannot restrain himself from malicious
remarks...." - Brutus to Atticus (Ad Brut. 17) early June, 43 B.C.


The letters of Cicero and Brutus seem to point to a young,
inexperienced (politically) man who was thrust onto the stage of
Republican politics --- and liked it. A lot. Gradually it became
clear that Octavius was very good at manipulating the great men around
him, and was given enormous leeway, enabling him to build for himself
an incredible foundation of political power. Brutus' fears proved
true.

Valete bene,

Cato




SOURCES

Cicero's Letters translations copyright Lewis Stiles, University of
Saskatchewan, 1995
(http://duke.usask.ca/~porterj/DeptTransls/CicLetters.html)

Comnmentary on Caesar's will copyright John Porter, University of
Saskatchewan, 1995 (http://www.historyinfilm.com/c
laudius/overview.htm)

Salva sis Diana Octavia

Pompeia did not recall, but of course I did remember that you were
newly arrived in Nova Roma back in 2000-2001. Not exactly back in
Nova Roma's infancy as you claimed. You joined gens Moravia after I
did. That was why when you needed to establish your former
citizenship as a Moravia with the censores, you came to me for
help.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<dianaaventina@y...> wrote:

> Salve Piscinus,
>
> < We did not leave due to the
> > superabundance of
> > regulation, but over how some magistrates did not
> > abide by those
> > regulae and instead abused the authority of their
> > offices. Old
> > issues I won't go into again.
>
> There are also a bunch of citizens who left because of
> you.

Probably true. After all, as the first consul of Societas Via
Romana and as pontifex maximus in its Collegium Religionis I did
help set standards for civil discussion and tolerance of the
opinions of all our sodales. There has never been a single incident
in SVR where someone flamed another, or resorted to personal
insults, or childish name-calling, as was all too common on Nova
Roma's lists in the past. Nor have we tolerated anyone bashing the
religious faith of others, or tolerated anyone attacking a person
because they hold to a different religious faith. Some people
appreciate a place where they can hold civil discussions on Roma
antiqua in a friendly atmosphere, and it is quite true that about
half the sodales of SVR have come from Nova Roma because they did
find a welcoming, friendly atmosphere in the Societas Via Romana. If
you wish to claim that by contributing towards making SVR into what
it is that I helped attract cives away from Nova Roma, then some
might wonder what it was about Nova Roma that made them leave?

>You do bring a wealth of information back with
> you and for that I am glad. You've brought new life to
> the Religio list.

Gratias. I am yet a student of the religio Romana, still researching
all the time, and as always I am willing to share whatever I learn.

>It's too bad that the citizens of
> Gens Cornelia don't come back as well.
>

Yes, Livia Cornelia was a valuable asset to Nova Roma. A most
active propraetor, and she was very active, too, in the
sodalitates. Hard working, honest, incorruptible. But then those
were her qualities that led some in gens Cornelia to hound her away,
and if you will recall it was Vado, he who had welcomed you to Nova
Roma, and a good portion of the Senate, as well as I and other
Moravii in filial pietas for Vado, who left over the mistreatment
that she and others were receiving in that former Nova Roma.

> The old NR of 1999-2001, no longer exists. Even with
> the fighting that took place, at least this place had
> spirit....
>
> Diana Octavia
>

Good. I am glad to hear that the old NR nolonger exists. Better
for everyone to leave it that way.

Vale
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

T. Octavius Salvius G. Equitio Catoni S.P.D

> Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and here are the

results:

> Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern ones:
>

>
>
>
> She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern ones :-)
>

That made me laugh! The legacy of the House of Ptolemy is not the
Pharos or the Library of Alexandria, but the original Cher.

Incidentally, have you come across 'A History of the Ptolemaic
Empire' by Gunther Holbl? I've just picked it up again after a year,
and it's a fascinating read, although it's really very difficult to
keep up with the Kings, what with the very unorigianl naming system
they had.

vale

T. Octavius Salvius

I agree with you. I know she Was a blonde. But most
Americans if they were asked would say that Hannibal &
Cleopatra are black.They wont accept otherwise.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> SALVE !
>
> I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark.

Don't forget her

> genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia.

Ptolomeu I Soter was

> general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the 7th

Cleopatra from

> the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.
>
> VALE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
> > correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST

BE

> > dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> > Ptolomies
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes.
> > >
> > > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and

here

> > are the results:
> > >
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm
> > >
> > >

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm

> > >
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern

ones:

> > >
> > >

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern

ones

> > :-)
> > >
> > > Valete bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > (all images copywrite by
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well from her busts and coins I would agree

but

> > she was not a
> > > beauty
> > > > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was
> > considered attractive
> > > > then.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

protection around

> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> I agree with you. I know she Was a blonde. But most
> Americans if they were asked would say that Hannibal &
> Cleopatra are black.They wont accept otherwise.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <iulius_sabinus@y...> wrote:
> > SALVE !
> >
> > I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark.
> Don't forget her
> > genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia.
> Ptolomeu I Soter was
> > general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the 7th
> Cleopatra from
> > the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.
> >
> > VALE,
> > IVL SABINVS
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
> > > correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST
> BE
> > > dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> > > Ptolomies
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > Salvete omnes.
> > > >
> > > > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and
> here
> > > are the results:
> > > >
> > > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern
> ones:
> > > >
> > > >
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern
> ones
> > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Valete bene,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > > (all images copywrite by
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well from her busts and coins I would agree
> but
> > > she was not a
> > > > beauty
> > > > > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was
> > > considered attractive
> > > > > then.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve,

Well, did anyone else watch it tonight? If so what was your opinion of it?
Thumb's up or Thumb's down. I give it two thumb's UP. And if any of our
historians saw it what are your pro's and con's on it. Also, how realistic
was the battle scene with the legionaries rotating on the command of the
Centurion's whistle so there were fresh fighters in the front of the
formation.

Vale,

Quintus Sevilius Priscus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

its because of PC run amuck


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: raymond fuentes<mailto:praefectus2324@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: From boy to tyrant...or benefactor?


I agree with you. I know she Was a blonde. But most
Americans if they were asked would say that Hannibal &
Cleopatra are black.They wont accept otherwise.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
<iulius_sabinus@...<mailto:iulius_sabinus@...>> wrote:
> SALVE !
>
> I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark.
Don't forget her
> genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia.
Ptolomeu I Soter was
> general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the 7th
Cleopatra from
> the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.
>
> VALE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
> > correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST
BE
> > dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> > Ptolomies
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes.
> > >
> > > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and
here
> > are the results:
> > >
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm<http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm>
> > >
> > >
http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm<http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm>
> > >
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm<http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern
ones:
> > >
> > >
http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm<http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern
ones
> > :-)
> > >
> > > Valete bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > (all images copywrite by
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/)<http://sangha.net/messengers/)>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Well from her busts and coins I would agree
but
> > she was not a
> > > beauty
> > > > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was
> > considered attractive
> > > > then.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

I have to add that Cleopatra was not only descended from the European
Ptolemy Line, but also was a granddaughter of Mithridates the Great
of Pontus. Half her blood line was semetic and it shows in her busts
with her strong jawline and huge nose. She may not have been dark as
in being "African" looking but she must have been darker than the
average European. Let's also not forget, that the Alexandrians and
the native Egyptians were two different peoples.

Pax
Falco


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> I agree with you. I know she Was a blonde. But most
> Americans if they were asked would say that Hannibal &
> Cleopatra are black.They wont accept otherwise.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <iulius_sabinus@y...> wrote:
> > SALVE !
> >
> > I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark.
> Don't forget her
> > genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia.
> Ptolomeu I Soter was
> > general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the 7th
> Cleopatra from
> > the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.
> >
> > VALE,
> > IVL SABINVS
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > Thats from the modern and I dare say politically
> > > correct stance that she is from Africa so she MUST
> BE
> > > dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> > > Ptolomies
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > Salvete omnes.
> > > >
> > > > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind, and
> here
> > > are the results:
> > > >
> > > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Compare the ancient portraits to these, modern
> ones:
> > > >
> > > >
> http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the modern
> ones
> > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Valete bene,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > > (all images copywrite by
> > > http://sangha.net/messengers/)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well from her busts and coins I would agree
> but
> > > she was not a
> > > > beauty
> > > > > by the standards of "our time" but maybe was
> > > considered attractive
> > > > > then.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve Cato,
Fortunately I am not interested in the polotics ! Too much back stabbing. As for the lull, it must be a two year lull.I do appreciate your e-mail, and hope we shall get to know each other in Rome.I knew surely I would get some replies from my e-mail. I want to be a very active member of Nova Roma, and do anything I can to help.
Vale,
Lucius Claudius

gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
G. Equitius Cato L. Claudio Romulo S.P.D.

Salve Romulus!

Rome is not empty; we've all just gone to Sorrentum for the August
holidays :-)

One small thing that may have kept the Forum a little quieter than
usual (as far as I'm concerned at least) is a vow I made not to talk
about law or politics for one week. The week is almost up (it ends
Wednesday, 31 August)...

Vale bene,

Cato







SPONSORED LINKS
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another factoid that is relatively unknown & goes
unmentioned in the dont offend anyone USA. The folks
in Alexandria thumbed thier noses at native Kemeti.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mfalco1@...>
wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I have to add that Cleopatra was not only descended

from the European

> Ptolemy Line, but also was a granddaughter of

Mithridates the Great

> of Pontus. Half her blood line was semetic and it

shows in her busts

> with her strong jawline and huge nose. She may not

have been dark as

> in being "African" looking but she must have been

darker than the

> average European. Let's also not forget, that the

Alexandrians and

> the native Egyptians were two different peoples.
>
> Pax
> Falco
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > I agree with you. I know she Was a blonde. But

most

> > Americans if they were asked would say that

Hannibal &

> > Cleopatra are black.They wont accept otherwise.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <iulius_sabinus@y...> wrote:
> > > SALVE !
> > >
> > > I'm not agree with this ideea. She was not dark.
> > Don't forget her
> > > genealogy. Her ancestors was from Macedonia.
> > Ptolomeu I Soter was
> > > general in the Alexander army. Cleopatra was the

7th

> > Cleopatra from
> > > the dinasty . Anyway the egiptians aren't dark.
> > >
> > > VALE,
> > > IVL SABINVS
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond

fuentes

> > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > > Thats from the modern and I dare say

politically

> > > > correct stance that she is from Africa so she

MUST

> > BE
> > > > dark. Very few folks even heard or know of the
> > > > Ptolomies
> > > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > G. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.
> > > > >
> > > > > Salvete omnes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paulinus brought up a question in my mind,

and

> > here
> > > > are the results:
> > > > >
> > > > >

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Greek.htm

> > > > >
> > > > >
> >

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Egyptian.htm

> > > > >
> > > > >

http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Coins.htm

> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Compare the ancient portraits to these,

modern

> > ones:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/Modern.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > She kinda looks like Cher in some of the

modern

> > ones
> > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Valete bene,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato
> > > > >
> > > > > (all images copywrite by
> > > > http://sangha.net/messengers/)
> > > > >

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salvete omnes!

Now this is a question that has intrigued me for years: what on earth was it
about Cleopatra that made her so desirable, so much so that Mark Antony
could not be drawn away from her? I've seen pictures of her - not just the
coin ones, but the famous bust - and in no way would one call her either
beautiful or attractive; yet Caesar and Antony couldn't resist her.

Sextus Pilatus Barbatus



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of raymond fuentes
Sent: 28 August 2005 19:50
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: From boy to tyrant...or benefactor?



As far as Cleopara VII is concerned as we have had
this discussion in the past,an intellectual she was-
albeit lingua latina, a raving beauty she was not.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <metelliana@...>
wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I have a question. How much contact did Octavius

have with his uncle befor

> e Caesars death?
>
> Valete,
> Metelliana
>
> "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"

<mjk@...> wrote:

> Salvete!
>
> This is a great topic for conversation. I have heard

different views

> about Augustus over the years both good and bad but

overall I have

> come to the conclusion that he was a shrewd

politician who was able

> to outwit the more military minded generals. The

fall of the

> republic was a forgone conclusion set in motion

before his time.

>
> When I think of Rome's golden age I think of

Augustus; under his

> administration Rome and her empire were really set

on its feet with

> Pax Romana. In comparison to other men and emperors

of his time I

> thought he did vey well. He seemed to be more Stoic

in the way he

> lived avoiding lavish lifestyles, trying to set some

sorts of moral

> codes. Even Cleopatra who knocked two tough generals

off their feet

> was unable to drag the younger Augustus to the sack;

if she was the

> great intellectual enchantress and beauty by the

standards of those

> times, she never phased the stronger character of

Augustus which

> showed that his privates did not rule his brain.
>
> You can find fault with every human in the world;

even Mother Teresa

> and many writers have mentioned his short comings

and weaknesses..

> Overall however you did not get to such a position

and let alone

> hold it for such a long time by being weak in

character and stupid

> intellectually; in short, my hat goes off to

Augustus. I think his

> benevolence and service to Rome far exceeds his

house cleaning

> earlier on.
>
> Now these are just my personal thoughts and do not

mean this to be

> an academic exercise so I haven't hit the books for

quotes,

> critiques etc.
>
> Regards.
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,

laurent_coffre@b... wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > In an effort to keep political and other boring

stuff at bay, I

> copy below
> > something I sent to the Britannia list some time

ago when we were

> > discussing the role Octavianus played in the fall

of the republic.

> The
> > question, of course, has not been settled so I

thought I could

> poke around
> > and see if some of you would like to comment and

offer suggestions

> or more
> > evidence on what I have written ;-)
> > I would be happy to provide my sources if anybody

is interested...

> >
> > So here it goes below,
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Laureatus
> >
> > xxxxxx
> >
> > Thank you both for taking interest in the

discussion. I would

> like, if I
> > may, express a couple of things that prompted me

to write on this

> list
> > about Octavius/Octavianus/Caesar/Augustus.

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



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