OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is Kalendis Septembribus; the day is Fastus.

"Ille dolet vere, qui sine teste dolet." (He mourns honestly who
mourns without witnesses) - Martial, Epigrammaton liber

""Their aim is not to sue for honours but to extort them from you, and
they will get the greatest favours from you without showing the
gratitude due even for the smallest. They prefer seeking posts of
honour by trusting to accident rather than by personal merit. There is
many a man, too proud to submit his merits and claims to inspection
and examination, who would think it quite fair that he alone among his
competitors should be quite certain of attaining a post of honour, who
would withdraw himself from your judgment and transfer your free votes
into compulsory and servile ones. Not to mention Licinius and Sextius,
whose years of uninterrupted power you number up as though they were
kings in the Capitol, who is there in the State to-day in such humble
circumstances as not to find the path to the consulship made easier by
the opportunities offered in that measure for him than it is for us
and our children? Even when you sometimes wish to elect us you will
not have the power; those people you will be compelled to elect, even
if you do not wish to do so. Enough has been said about the indignity
of the thing. Questions of dignity, however, only concern men; what
shall I say about the duties of religion and the auspices, the
contempt and profanation of which specially concern the gods? Who is
there who knows not that it was under auspices that this City was
founded, that only after auspices have been taken is anything done in
war or peace, at home or in the field? Who have the right to take the
auspices in accordance with the usage of our fathers? The patricians,
surely, for not a single plebeian magistrate is elected under
auspices. So exclusively do the auspices belong to us that not only do
the people when electing patrician magistrates elect them only when
the auspices are favourable, but even we, when, independently of the
people, we are choosing an interrex, only do so after the auspices
have been taken: we as private citizens have the auspices which your
order does not possess even as magistrates. What else is the man doing
who by the creation of plebeian consuls takes away the auspices from
the patricians who alone can possess them - what else, I ask, is he
doing but depriving the State of the auspices? Now, men are at liberty
to mock at our religious fears. 'What does it matter if the sacred
chickens do not feed, if they hesitate to come out of their coop, if a
bird has shrieked ominously?' These are small matters, but it was by
not despising these small matters that our ancestors have achieved the
supreme greatness of this State. Now, as though there were no need of
securing peace with the gods, we are polluting all ceremonial acts.
Are pontiffs, augurs, kings for sacrifice to be appointed
indiscriminately? Are we to place the mitre of the Flamen of Jupiter
upon any one's head provided only he be a man? Are we to hand over the
sacred shields, the shrines, the gods, and the care of their worship
to men to whom it would be impious to entrust them? Are laws no longer
to be passed, or magistrates elected in accordance with the auspices?
Are the senate no longer to authorise the Assembly of centuries, or
the Assembly of curies? Are Sextius and Licinius to reign in this City
of Rome as though they were a second Romulus, a second Tatius, because
they give away other people's money and other people's lands? So great
a charm is felt in preying upon other people's fortunes, that it has
not occurred to them that by expelling the occupiers from their lands
under the one law vast solitudes will be created, whilst by the action
of the other all credit will be destroyed and with it all human
society abolished. For every reason I consider that these proposals
ought to be rejected, and may heaven guide you to a right decision!" "
- Livy, History of Rome 6.41

"He built many public works, in particular the following: his forum
with the temple of Mars the Avenger, the temple of Apollo on the
Palatine, and the fane of Jupiter the Thunderer on the Capitol...He
dedicated the shrine to Jupiter the Thunderer because of a narrow
escape; for on his Cantabrian expedition during a march by night, a
flash of lightning grazed his litter and struck the slave dead who was
carrying a torch before him." - Seutonius, Life of Augustus 29

"Hegiae Minerva Pyrrhusque rex laudatur et celetizontes pueri et
Castor ac Pollux ante aede Iovis Tonantis, Hagesiae in Pario colonia
Hercules, Isidoti buthytes. Lycius Myronis discipulus fuit, qui fecit
dignum praeceptore puerum sufflantem languidos ignes et Argonautas;
Leochares aquilam sentientem, quid rapiat in Ganymede et cui ferat,
parcentemque unguibus etiam per vestem puero, Autolycum pancratii
victorem, propter quem Xenophon symposium scripsit, Iovemque illum
Tonantem in Capitolio ante cuncta laudabilem, item Apollinem
diadematum, Lyciscum mangonem, puerum subdolae ac fucatae
vernilitatis, Lycius et ipse puerum suffitorem. " - Pliny, Natural
History xviii.78, 79


On this day in 22 B.C., the magnificent temple of Iuppiter Tonans was
dedicated on the Capitoline Hill by Augustus.

"I built the curia the Chalcidicum adjoining it, the temple of Apollo
on the Palatine with its porticoes, the temple of the deified Julius,
the Lupercal, the portico at the Circus Flaminius which I allowed to
be called Octavia after the name of him who had constructed an earlier
one on the same site, the state box at the Circus Maximus, the temples
on the capitol of Jupiter Feretrius and Jupiter Tonans, the temple of
Quirinus, the temples of Minerva, of Juno the Queen, and of Jupiter
Libertas, on the Aventine, the temple of the Lares at the highest
point of the Sacra Via, the temple of the Di Penates on the Velia,
and of the Great Mother on the Palatine." - Augustus, de res Gestae
Augustus IV. 19

Augustus visited this temple frequently, and on one occasion is said
to have dreamed that Jupiter complained that the popularity of this
new temple had sensibly diminished the number of worshippers in the
great temple of the god. Whereupon Augustus replied that Iuppiter
Tonans was only the doorkeeper of Iuppiter Capitolinus, and proceeded
to hang bells on the gables of the former to indicate this
relationship:

"Being in the habit of making constant visits to the temple of Jupiter
the Thunderer, which he had founded on the Capitol, he dreamed that
Jupiter Capitolinus complained that his worshippers were being taken
from him, and that he answered that he had placed the Thunderer hard
by to be his doorkeeper; and accordingly he presently festooned the
gable of the temple with bells, because these commonly hung at
house-doors." - Seutonius, Life of Augustus 91


Also on this day was dedicated the temple of Iuno Regina on the
Aventine Hill, vowed by the Dictator Camillus:

"An enormous crowd went and filled the camp. After the Dictator had
taken the auspices and issued orders for the soldiers to arm for
battle, he uttered this prayer: "Pythian Apollo, guided and inspired
by thy will I go forth to destroy the city of Veii, and a tenth part
of its spoils I devote to thee. Thee too, Queen Juno, who now dwellest
in Veii, I beseech, that thou wouldst follow us, after our victory, to
the City which is ours and which will soon be shine, where a temple
worthy of thy majesty will receive thee." ... The deportation of Queen
Juno to Rome was entrusted to a body of men selected from the whole
army, who after performing their ablutions and arraying themselves in
white vestments, reverently entered the temple and in a spirit of holy
dread placed their hands on the statue, for it was as a rule only the
priest of one particular house who, by Etruscan usage, touched it.
Then one of them, either under a sudden inspiration, or in a spirit of
youthful mirth, said, "Art thou willing, Juno, to go to Rome?" The
rest exclaimed that the goddess nodded assent. An addition to the
story was made to the effect that she was heard to say, "I am
willing." At all events we have it that she was moved from her place
by appliances of little power, and proved light and easy of transport,
as though she were following of her own accord. She was brought
without mishap to the Aventine, her everlasting seat, whither the
prayers of the Roman Dictator had called her, and where this same
Camillus afterwards dedicated the temple which he had vowed. Such was
the fall of Veii, the most wealthy city of the Etruscan league,
showing its greatness even in its final overthrow, since after being
besieged for ten summers and winters and inflicting more loss than it
sustained, it succumbed at last to destiny, being after all carried by
a mine and not by direct assault...After this he signed a contract for
building the temple of Queen Juno on the Aventine and dedicated one to
Matuta the Mother." - Livy, History of Rome 5.21-23


Today is also the great Pig Fair in Bonnat, France:

"On the Plateau de la Marche, in a quintessentially rural French
village, the first of September every year is given over to everything
and anything porcine. Some 5000 people attend, mostly to see pigs
exhibited and awarded prizes, and for trade purposes - you could even
buy one yourself if you have a bit of room in your car.
Alternatively, if you think pigs are best off cooked, partake of some
Porcelet à la broche (roasted piglet on a spit), washed down with
some of the vin d'honneur (a delicious oaky white, from an area justly
famed for it). There will also be music, dancing and friendly folk."

as well as the Kewanee Illinois (U.S.) Hog Festival:

"Sometime around today, Kewanee, Illinois, will be pulling out all the
stops for the Hog Capital of the World Festival, the most significant
feature of which is the World's Largest Pork Chop Barbeque. (I think
they mean quantity of chops barbequed rather than a barbeque featuring
one really big chop.) There are supposed to be 60,000 attendees at
this fete, which features, of course, a beauty pageant for little
girls, a tractor pull, and "professional entertainment," among other
activities that seem to be requisite for this sort of event."


Last but not least, on this day in A.D. 1939, the armies of Nazi
Germany stormed into Poland in a nightmarish wave, sparking the
conflagration known as World War II.

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/), Augustus
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts
/Suetonius/12Caesars/Augustus*.html#91),
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts
/Augustus/Res_Gestae/4*.html#19),
Bonnat Pig Fair
(http://www.whatsontheplanet.com/wow/ptnr/rci/page
.jsp?fx=event&event_id=15114),
Kewanee Hog Festival (http://www.goatview.com/september1suuueee.htm)

Ave, and thank you for the reply. I wasn't aware the Temple of the
Religio Romana was recognized as a church. I'll check that out ASAP.

Marcus Artorius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> M. Hortensia Marco Arturo spd;
> Salve; yes that certainly is within the province of the CP,
to
> get an idea of what it might look like I suggest you visit
> the "Temple of the Religio Romana" which is indeed an offically
> recognized 'church' in California and was set up with the help of
> former augur Marcus Horatius Piscinus and Pontifex Graecus. I
would
> imagine that under such a rubric you would have different priests
> and priestesses for the various cults, no reason to create a new
> org. optime vale,
> Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
> > I would also imagine that the College of Pontiffs would be the
only
> > body authorized under the Constitution and laws of the Republic
to
> > create such an entity *within* Nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Coleman"
> <stardragon1@m...>
> > wrote:
> > > Ave!
> > >
> > > I have a question, is the Nova Roman Religion setup as an
actual
> > > church/temple anywhere? Such as having priests that are fully
> > > authorized to perform ceremonies such as weddings, that would
be
> > > recognized legally by the country it was performed in (such as
> > > performing a legal marriage in the USA as a Nova Roman priest).
> > >
> > > If not, has there been any plans to do so? I think it would be
a
> > > great step to making the religion a viable alternative for the
> > > citizens of Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > Also, would the foreign religions be included in such an
> > > incorporation? Or would each one have to be set up as as their
> own
> > > entity for legal purposes? Or how would that work? Say if
> someone
> > > wanted to set up a modern day Church of Mithras for example,
> would
> > > it be headed as a member of Nova Roma, or as its own seperate
> > > church? And if someone wanted to do that with one of the
foreign
> > > religions, what would he have to do, with regards to Nova
Roma,
> to
> > > get permission to do that? Say if I wanted to open the above
> > > mentioned Church, would I have to get offical approval from
the
> > > Senate?
> > >
> > > Marcus Artorius

Salvete Marce Artori, comreligiones et alii

Laws vary from country to country on establishing a legally
recognized religious organization. From what I understand it is
easier to do that in the US than elsewhere. A religious
organization is set up through state and federal laws and is about
the same process throughout the US.

Establishing individual temples as you refer to would depend on
state laws and they vary greatly. Cato says 10 people needed for
NY. In some states it is only five where other states require as
many as 50 people. These temples might need to be set up
independently, each incorporated separately, which could then
affiliate with a religious organization. Doing it the other way,
with the religious organization trying to establish temples in
different states can pose more difficult problems. In some states it
can come down to a court ruling that you are a religion (same
problem in Europe).

As for your priests gaining legal recognition, this also varies from
state to state. The priest would need written recognition as a
priest from his or her sponsoring temple. Then in states that
require it, the priest would have to apply for a license authorizing
him or her to perform marriages. In Ohio the fee was $10.00 when I
applied to the State's Attorney General, and then I had to register
at the county court house. Performing marriages without a license
in Ohio I think brings a fine of $600.00 and up to six months
incarceration for each marriage performed.

Currently the only legally recognized temple in the US, as Marca
Hortensia said, is the Temple of Religio Romana in the LA area of
southern California. http://www.religioromana.net/index.htm It is
not affiliated in any way with Nova Roma. Gryllus Graecus and I do
form the Board of Advisors to the Temple's Board of Directors. There
are groups in other states that are trying now to incorporate and
gain legal recognition as temples. None of those groups with which
I work currently are affiliated with Nova Roma.

Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> G. Equitius Cato Marco Arturio S.P.D.
>
> Salve Marcus Artorius.
>
> I do not think the religio has been set up (at least within Nova

Roma

> or under her auspices) as a legal church in the U.S. I do know

that

> in New York at least you must have something like 10 members

willing

> to sign an affidavit swearing that they are, indeed, members of the
> church, accompanied by incorporation papers, a charter, etc. ---
> basically an entirely seperate legal entity.
>
> I would also imagine that the College of Pontiffs would be the only
> body authorized under the Constitution and laws of the Republic to
> create such an entity *within* Nova Roma.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Coleman"

<stardragon1@m...>

> wrote:
> > Ave!
> >
> > I have a question, is the Nova Roman Religion setup as an actual
> > church/temple anywhere? Such as having priests that are fully
> > authorized to perform ceremonies such as weddings, that would be
> > recognized legally by the country it was performed in (such as
> > performing a legal marriage in the USA as a Nova Roman priest).
> >
> > If not, has there been any plans to do so? I think it would be a
> > great step to making the religion a viable alternative for the
> > citizens of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Also, would the foreign religions be included in such an
> > incorporation? Or would each one have to be set up as as their

own

> > entity for legal purposes? Or how would that work? Say if

someone

> > wanted to set up a modern day Church of Mithras for example,

would

> > it be headed as a member of Nova Roma, or as its own seperate
> > church? And if someone wanted to do that with one of the foreign
> > religions, what would he have to do, with regards to Nova Roma,

to

> > get permission to do that? Say if I wanted to open the above
> > mentioned Church, would I have to get offical approval from the
> > Senate?
> >
> > Marcus Artorius

FRANCISCVS APVLVS CAESAR CONSVL OMNIBVS S.P.D.

II - EDICTVM CONSVLARE FAC DE NOMINATIONE ACCENSI
CONSVLARIS

+++++++++++++++++
LATIN VERSION
+++++++++++++++++

Ex hoc Gnaeum Cornelium Lentulum: Accensum Consularem
omnibus officiis privilegiisque in Novae Romae legibus
scriptis i8n annum MMDCCLVIII. creo.

Ille ius iurandum facere non debet.

Datum est Kal. SEPTEMBRES MMDCCLVIII a.u.c. Fr. Apulo Caesare C.
Popillio Laenate consulibus


+++++++++
english version
+++++++++

I hereby appoint Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus as my
consular accensus for
the year 2758, with all the obligations and privileges
prescribed by
the Laws of Nova Roma.

He'll not be required to make any kind of oath.

Given Kal. SEPTEMBRES MMDCCLVIII a.u.c. in the Consulship of Fr.
Apulus Caesar and G.Popillius Laenas

Salvete Omnes,

some clarification added to the comments by Tribunus Albucius, as I
have already wrote here.

> 2/ On Consular Quaestor Paulinus's remarks (message ML 36903) :
>
> a) « You also posted that the Senate was considering
> removing "INTERPRETERS AND
> « LICTORES" counted as members of the Capite Censi. It should be
> noted that both Senator Lucius Cornelius « Sulla Felix and Lucius
> Sicinius Drusus taxes are paid and are both Assidui. »
>
> I have just taken in account the internal report of Consul Caesar,
> quoted in my introduction (6th « in view »). I was not authorized

to

> contest such an information which enters the consular field of
> competency. My task is here to report to the People, using this

way

> the informations given by the consular office.
> If the presiding consul has been wrong in including Hon. Sulla and
> Sicinius in the list of the citizens that he has suggested to
> dismiss from office, he should have been warned before he convoked
> the Senate, and by you, dear consular Quaestor ;-). I thus see

here

> two logical possibilities : either both Senators were assidui

before

> Consul Caesar convoked the Senate, and a problem thus occurred in
> your consular office internal communication ; or they became

assidui

> after the convocation, and the decision of the Senate keeps its

full

> effect. Anyway, it is an internal consular question that you

should

> see with Consul Caesar.

As said, Illustri Senatores Sulla and Drusus were members of the
Capite Censi at the beginning of the Consultum. During the votation
period someone payed their taxes and I specified in the Senatus that
actions would had taken about just only the Magistrates members of
the Capite censi at the end of the Contio. All the voting Senatores
knew the situation.

> 3/ On Senatrix Strabo's remark (message ML 36912)
>
> « Section B5 troubles me with respect to the situation at hand:
> Quoting: "If the Senate has voted on an item of a confidential
> nature, for example, the dismissal of a citizen, for the

protection

> of the citizen(s) in question the reporting Tribune should confer
> with the Senate as to what details of the

discussion/comments/voting

> should be reported to the citizens." ».
>
> I took here in consideration first the fact that the presiding
> consul did not underlined me a possible difficulty with the point
> voted by the Senate.
> Furthermore and second, I have considered, like Consul Caesar,

that

> the fact that some officers do not pay their taxes cannot be, by
> essence, « of a confidential nature » since paying the annual tax

is

> a legal condition to hold an office. At last, our citizens must be
> dully informed each time one of us looses (or wins) its office,

i.e.

> the right of representing our Res publica.

The Costitution says about "dismissal of a citizen, for the
protection of the citizen(s) in question". I don't think the
involved not-tax-payers Magistrates needed protection and I don't
consider this informational confidential. On contrary I think that
the Populus must to know that some of our Magistrates, Senatores and
Priests are members of the Capite Censi. For this reason I'm working
about a modification of the rules about the tax-raising permitting
to elect only Assidui citizens.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

Salve bene Luci Luse

The festivals that my family celebrated when I was a child always
included much food, wine, song, dance, and games. The family back
then, in the 1950's, had fresh meat, which we slaughtered ourselves,
and performed as a ritual, offering parts of the lamb (usually) to
the Gods and a libation of wine to Giove, poured over the roots of
our vines. Quite a bit more wine was drunk by us though.

I have never had bottle bear. I have eaten fresh bear before, and a
number of other animals in exotic places. I like to experiment with
local cuisines.

The core of the religio Romana is the cultus for the Di Manes. Some
of these rituals, though certainly not all, can be festive as we we
invite our ancestores to dine and drink with us, dance and
participate in all our celebrations. We also do give thanks to the
Gods for what They provide us and we do celebrate life. There is a
variety of rituals performed in the religio Romana, not all of which
are festive celebrations. Formal rituals to be performed by
sacredotes and/or magistrates require prepatory rites and it was to
these that Cicero and other Roman authors referred. These involve
purification rites and the taking of auspices, as well as a
propitiary sacrifice prior to sacra publica. Some rituals in the
cultus of a gens can be as formal and therefore have similar
requirements. Generally these formal rituals were combined in with
the festive celebrations of festivals.

Enjoy your feasting and dancing, the Gods are pleased by the
laughter of Their children.

Di Deaeque te bene ament
M Moravius Piscinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Lusus <luciuslusus@y...>
wrote:

> Auete
>
> Lucius Iulius Lusus omnibus salutem dicit.
>
> Care Marce Horati, I found your speech about the sincerity of mind

and purity of heart as key aspects in the Religio Romana very
impressive, and I agree with you. But I must pay attention to the
very sensorial and sometiemes sensual aspects of the core of
paganism.

>
> I frequently see the pagan rites as celebrations of the most basic

pysiological needs sublimated into divinity. Pagan rituals
frequently involved sacrifices of animals because the animals were
eaten by the assistants thereafter. In ancient times there were no
refridgerators, meat was to eaten immediately and a party was made
around the mealing. A modern pagan ritual, in my opinion, would by
faithful to their past versions, if it involves a lot of food and
drinking, which fortunately in the Western World, we have a lot and
can buy it very practically in supermarkets. The key question is how
to integrate the physiological needs of the mortal organism into a
higher order of cosmic immortality and, in this way, make them a
gift to Gods. Most probably this will be done by poetry and witty
speechs, sincerely felt, just like hunger, lust and need for
intoxication can be deeply sincerely felt.

>
> Great Bacchus, exhilarate my bottle of bear,
> Bring Silenus and the rest of your companion:
> And, Winds of Cupid, don´t let me faint.
> But instead rise me to the kisses of my beauty.
>
> Valete
>
> Lucius Iulius Lusus
>
> Marcus Horatius <mhoratius@s...> wrote:
> Salve bene Cai Cato
>
> Scripsisti:
> The idea being that how you approach (the) God(s) spiritually is at
> least as important, if not more, than the mechanisms by which you

do

> so. Which leads me to the most important question I have. You seem
> to be building on the foundation that the religio is a faith-based
> practice, rather than orthopractical --- or, rather than solely
> orthopractical. Is this in fact the case as far as the ancients

were

> concerned? Or is it an adaptation of the religio to fit into the
> ideas we have been brought up with regarding religion and/or faith

in a Western, Judeo-Christian-assimilated world?

>
>
>
>
> "The Gods rejoice more in the innocence of worshippers than in

elaborate prayers; the man who enters Their temples with a pure
heart is more agreeable to the Gods than anyone who recites a
carefully prepared litany (Pliny the Younger Panegyric 3).

>
>
>
> Rigidly following a formalistic rite with exactness, paying

attention that every little detail is performed in presumed
correctness, when done without spirituality, is nothing more than
superstition (Cicero De Natura Deorum 2.70-72). Outward performance
without inner spirituality is an offense against the Gods. That was
the judgement of Jupiter on Tullus Hostilius for his "perversion of
religion" (Pliny the Elder Natural History 28.14; Valerius Maximus
9.12.1; Livy 1.31.8). Focusing so greatly on how its rituals are to
be performed correctly serves only to make the religio Romana into a
superstition. That is, if you neglect the spiritual aspects of the
religio Romana and the requirement for spirituality when performing
its rites.

>
>
>
>
>
> Ad Divos adeunto caste, pietatem adhibento, opes amovento.
>
> Qui secus faxit, Deus ipse vindex erit.
>
>
>
> Cicero De Legibus VIII (19)
>
>
>
> "May they approach the Gods and Goddesses while pure and chaste,

bringing piety, and leaving riches behind. Whosoever should do
otherwise, will be avenged upon by the Gods Themselves."

>
>
>
> When the time came for Vei to be removed from Her temple in

Etruria to Rome, Camillus selected out certain young men for the
task. They cleansed themselves at the river and donned white
garments. But it was the reverence that they showed towards the
Goddess that allowed them to approach Her (Livy 5.22.4-5). Cicero is
quite clear on this point in explaining the law he provided above.

>
>
>
> Cicero De Legibus II.x, 24-5:
>
>
>
> "that is, purity of mind, for everything is included by that. This

does not remove the requirement of bodily purityÂ…for in the former
case impurity is removed by the sprinkling of water or the passage
of a certain number of days, but a mental stain can neither be
blotted out by the passage of time nor washed away by any stream. Â…
uprightness is pleasing to the Gods, but great expenditure is to be
avoidedÂ…nothing would be less pleasing to a God Himself than that
the pathway to His favour and to His worship should not be open to
all alike."

>
>
>
>
>
> The only acceptable offerings to present to the Gods are "holiness

of mind and purity of hearth (Persius Satires 2.73-74)."

>
>
>
> "But the best and also the most chaste, holiest and most pious way

of worshipping the Gods is ever to venerate Them with purity,
sincerity, and innocence both in thought and of speech (Cicero De
Natura Deorum 2.71)."

>
>
> You might also look again at the inscription I posted earlier:
>
>
> CIL VI 18817
>
>
>
> "Whole-heartedly I pray to you, most holy Manes, may you admit my

dear husband among you, and, may you want to be most indulging in
this, that in the hours of the night I may see him and also be
advised by him on what to do, in order that I may be able to swiftly
and sweetly come stand by his side."

>
>
> What is this woman really saying here? Doesn't she fully expect

to see and hear her deceased husband, as she expects him to now
become one of her Lares? And what does she hope for, for herself,
by receiving his advice now? Isn't she implying that one's fate in
the afterlife depends on what one does in life? But is she implying
that it depends on rigidly following some ritual formulae, or is she
instead saying that one act in life sincerely towards the Gods,
chaste and pure in one's thoughts, words, and deeds?

>
> Roman understanding of pietas is not the same as Christian piety.

And Roman fides is not the same as a Christian understanding of
faith. I do not know exactly what you may mean by a faith-based
religion, because I am not, and I have never been a Christian, or
for that matter a Jew or Muslim. You could say that Roman
orthopraxy results from Roman pietas and fides. Pietas involves
maintaining rites for one's Lares, and also maintaining rites vowed
to the Gods by one's ancestors. And fides concerns the reciprical
obligations that build up in the relationship between the Gods and
mortal through faithfully abiding in one's pietas. How the two
interrelate, you cannot expect the Gods to trust in your vows to
Them if you do not keep to the obligations you owe to your Lares.
And the Lares are not going to trust in any vows you make to them if
you do not keep the obligations you owe to others in this life.
There is a whole lot more to the practice of the religio Romana than
just "going

> through the motions."
>
> Varro said, "The superstitious man fears the Gods, the religious

man reveres Them as he would his parents, for They are good, more
apt to spare than punish." (Frag. 47 Card.) From that same idea
you find other expressions of trust in the Gods.

>
>
> Petronius Satyricon 98
>
> In You, dearest Father, in Your hands do we place our safekeeping.
>
> In tua, pater carissime, in tua sumus custodia.
>
>
>
> Propertius Eligiae 4.9.74
>
> Holy One, may You wish to be with me and Your guiding right hand

in my books.

>
> Sancte, velis libro dexter inesse meo.
>
>
>
> Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 4.674-5
>
> "Whosoever You may be among the Gods, I shall follow wherever You

may lead, in faithful trust that You do not deceive."

>
>
> These are not expressions of people quivering in fear of Gods lest

they make some minor error in ritual. Tullius Hostilius was not
struck down be Jupiter for improperly reciting the formula used by
Numa, but rather because he approached the Gods without the same
sincerity in worship as had Numa Pompilius. And also in Dio
Cassius, Roman History, book 78, section 15, as Nantonos Aedui
pointed out in my class at Academia Thule, the character and cruelty
of the emperor Caracalla (called Antoninus here) alienated him from
the Gods:

>
> "But to Antoninus not even one of the Gods gave any response that

conduced to healing either his body or his mind, although he paid
homage to all the more prominent ones. This showed most clearly that
They regarded not his votive offerings or his sacrifices, but only
his purposes and his deeds. He received no help from Apollo Grannus,
nor yet from Aesculapius or Serapis, in spite of his many
supplications and his unwearying persistence. For even while abroad
he sent to Them prayers, sacrifices and votive offerings, and many
couriers ran hither and thither every day carrying something of this
kind; and he also went to them himself, hoping to prevail by
appearing in person, and did all that devotees are wont to do; but
he obtained nothing that contributed to health."

>
>
> The religio Romana is not at all about how you physically perform

a rite. Faith in the Gods, sincere worship of the Gods, purity of
heart when approaching the Gods, mindfulness, with spirituality, is
essential in the performance of Roman ritual, and along with that is
also how you live your life. I don't know how one would have faith
in the Gods without also believing in the existence of the Gods. So
that is part of it too, but we leave it to the individual to find
the Gods for himself or herself, and for people to find their own
understanding of the Gods. Belief comes through experiencing the
Gods, and that has to come to each person individually, but it does
come through a way of life in relationship with the Gods. So my
understanding of "faith-based practice" may be a little different
from yours, but yes, that is how I view the religio Romana.

>
> Vale optime et vade in Deos
> Piscinus
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

salve Artorius,

> I've recently settled in the Southern part of the California
> Provincia, and I would love to be able to find other citizens in

this

> area, but unfortunately, the website of Nova Roma doesn't list

what

> part or city a citizen is in within the province.
>
> So, without emailing some 160+ members, how can I find what

members

> are in my area?

I would suggest you to contact the Propraetor Provinciae
Californiae. He should be able to raise the information about the
citizens of your Provincia. You could accomplish this job with his
collaboration. Or you could send an announce in the provincial
mailing list, if it exists.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

Well, I have emailed the Proconsul, two Legates and the Scribe for
California...the scribe and one legate came back as a bad email
address, and the proconsul and other legate have yet to reply to me.
And they don't have a mailing list that I have been able to find.

Thus why I came here asking. Are there any other routes if I can't
get a hold of the leadership in California?

Marcus Artorius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <sacro_barese_impero@l...>
wrote:

> salve Artorius,
>
> > I've recently settled in the Southern part of the California
> > Provincia, and I would love to be able to find other citizens in
> this
> > area, but unfortunately, the website of Nova Roma doesn't list
> what
> > part or city a citizen is in within the province.
> >
> > So, without emailing some 160+ members, how can I find what
> members
> > are in my area?
>
> I would suggest you to contact the Propraetor Provinciae
> Californiae. He should be able to raise the information about the
> citizens of your Provincia. You could accomplish this job with his
> collaboration. Or you could send an announce in the provincial
> mailing list, if it exists.
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Senior Consul

Ah okay...thank you for the information and to clear up a few things.

To my understanding then, if I were to become a priest of a specific
god in Nova Roma, and I aspired to creating a church, I would first
have to find a following, second I would assume get authorization
from the College of Pontiffs, then go through all the legal routes
and establish a church of my god in the state I reside, get priests
authorized for various legal ceremonies like marriage, and work
towards getting a building. Okay, sounds easy enough ;)

Thank you all,

Marcus Artorius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@s...>
wrote:

> Salvete Marce Artori, comreligiones et alii
>
> Laws vary from country to country on establishing a legally
> recognized religious organization. From what I understand it is
> easier to do that in the US than elsewhere. A religious
> organization is set up through state and federal laws and is about
> the same process throughout the US.
>
> Establishing individual temples as you refer to would depend on
> state laws and they vary greatly. Cato says 10 people needed for
> NY. In some states it is only five where other states require as
> many as 50 people. These temples might need to be set up
> independently, each incorporated separately, which could then
> affiliate with a religious organization. Doing it the other way,
> with the religious organization trying to establish temples in
> different states can pose more difficult problems. In some states

it

> can come down to a court ruling that you are a religion (same
> problem in Europe).
>
> As for your priests gaining legal recognition, this also varies

from

> state to state. The priest would need written recognition as a
> priest from his or her sponsoring temple. Then in states that
> require it, the priest would have to apply for a license

authorizing

> him or her to perform marriages. In Ohio the fee was $10.00 when

I

> applied to the State's Attorney General, and then I had to

register

> at the county court house. Performing marriages without a license
> in Ohio I think brings a fine of $600.00 and up to six months
> incarceration for each marriage performed.
>
> Currently the only legally recognized temple in the US, as Marca
> Hortensia said, is the Temple of Religio Romana in the LA area of
> southern California. http://www.religioromana.net/index.htm It is
> not affiliated in any way with Nova Roma. Gryllus Graecus and I

do

> form the Board of Advisors to the Temple's Board of Directors.

There

> are groups in other states that are trying now to incorporate and
> gain legal recognition as temples. None of those groups with

which

> I work currently are affiliated with Nova Roma.
>
> Valete optime
> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:
> > G. Equitius Cato Marco Arturio S.P.D.
> >
> > Salve Marcus Artorius.
> >
> > I do not think the religio has been set up (at least within Nova
> Roma
> > or under her auspices) as a legal church in the U.S. I do know
> that
> > in New York at least you must have something like 10 members
> willing
> > to sign an affidavit swearing that they are, indeed, members of

the

> > church, accompanied by incorporation papers, a charter, etc. ---
> > basically an entirely seperate legal entity.
> >
> > I would also imagine that the College of Pontiffs would be the

only

> > body authorized under the Constitution and laws of the Republic

to

> > create such an entity *within* Nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Coleman"
> <stardragon1@m...>
> > wrote:
> > > Ave!
> > >
> > > I have a question, is the Nova Roman Religion setup as an

actual

> > > church/temple anywhere? Such as having priests that are fully
> > > authorized to perform ceremonies such as weddings, that would

be

> > > recognized legally by the country it was performed in (such as
> > > performing a legal marriage in the USA as a Nova Roman priest).
> > >
> > > If not, has there been any plans to do so? I think it would be

a

> > > great step to making the religion a viable alternative for the
> > > citizens of Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > Also, would the foreign religions be included in such an
> > > incorporation? Or would each one have to be set up as as their
> own
> > > entity for legal purposes? Or how would that work? Say if
> someone
> > > wanted to set up a modern day Church of Mithras for example,
> would
> > > it be headed as a member of Nova Roma, or as its own seperate
> > > church? And if someone wanted to do that with one of the

foreign

> > > religions, what would he have to do, with regards to Nova

Roma,

> to
> > > get permission to do that? Say if I wanted to open the above
> > > mentioned Church, would I have to get offical approval from

the

> > > Senate?
> > >
> > > Marcus Artorius

G. Equitius Cato Marco Artorio S.P.D.

Salve Marcus Artorius

Basically, yes :-)

You should FIRST apply to the College of Pontiffs to become a
functioning sacerdote in Nova Roma (or flamen or augur or whatever
route it is you plan to pursue). But that only authorizes you to act
within Nova Roma on behalf of the Republic.

Forming your own legal church in the macronational world is an
entirely seperate activity.

I would contact the Pontifex Maximus regarding the possibilities of
becoming an "official" church representing Nova Roma, or even if any
such possibilities exist. I think you would be breaking new ground,
as it were. Good luck, and let us know how it goes :-)

As far as California goes...hmph. Silly state, silly people, silly
weather. Move to New York.

Vale bene,

Cato


DISCLAIMER - The comments about California are meant ONLY in a
humorous and light-hearted way; they do not reflect the official
attitudes or feelings of any other Nova Romans in any way shape or form.

Ave Cato,

Well, I have already applied to become a Sacerdos of one of the
foreign cults (Isis and Serapis), so now I have to wait the required
4-6 weeks before I can bug them about my application.

If I could find the people in California, I do plan on attempting
the legal church route. After years of trying to find dedicated
practicioners or locations of fellowship (in the pagan community at
least), and becoming quite frustrated at finding neither, I would
like to try and do something about it.

We'll see how it goes...

As for California, well, we almost moved to New York or Mass...but
my wife had family in California, and grew up here (in Santa
Barbara), so we moved to California.

Marcus Artorius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> G. Equitius Cato Marco Artorio S.P.D.
>
> Salve Marcus Artorius
>
> Basically, yes :-)
>
> You should FIRST apply to the College of Pontiffs to become a
> functioning sacerdote in Nova Roma (or flamen or augur or whatever
> route it is you plan to pursue). But that only authorizes you to

act

> within Nova Roma on behalf of the Republic.
>
> Forming your own legal church in the macronational world is an
> entirely seperate activity.
>
> I would contact the Pontifex Maximus regarding the possibilities of
> becoming an "official" church representing Nova Roma, or even if

any

> such possibilities exist. I think you would be breaking new

ground,

> as it were. Good luck, and let us know how it goes :-)
>
> As far as California goes...hmph. Silly state, silly people, silly
> weather. Move to New York.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> DISCLAIMER - The comments about California are meant ONLY in a
> humorous and light-hearted way; they do not reflect the official
> attitudes or feelings of any other Nova Romans in any way shape or

form.

Publius Memmius Albucius omnibus quiritibus s.d.

Please find below the edict of publication of the results of the
last vote of the comitia tributa populi on lex Memmia de
provocatione :

_____________________________________________________________________


TRIBUNE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 58-19) ON THE PUBLICATION OF
THE VOTING RESULTS ON LEX MEMMIA DE PROVOCATIONE

I, Publius Minius Albucius, Tribune of the Plebs, by the authority
vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma,

In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma,
In view of my Edict 58-15 and 58-16 on the convening of the comitia
tributa populi,
In view of the session of the comitia, which has ended on the 14th
August 2005,
In view of the messages of the 30th August 2005, by Custos Decius
Iunius Palladius Invictus and Diribitor Caius Minucius Scaevola
communicating and certifying the results of the vote on the
proposed draft law,

Edicts :

Article 1 :

The results of the vote are the following ones :

Lex Memmia de provocatione draft has been refused by 14 tribes
against 12, 9 tribes casting a « void » vote (no citizen cast a
vote).

Article 2

The appropriate magistrates of Nova Roma and their departments are
responsible, as far as each one is concerned by the present edict,
and in due consideration of the constitution, for executing it. This
edict will be published in the Tabularium of Nova Roma.


Issued in Cadomago, Gallia, this first day (1st) of September, 2005
C.E. (Kal. Sept. MMDCCLVIII a.u.c.), during the consulate of
Fr. Apulus Caesar and Ga. Popillius Laenas



---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments


Thanks to every citizen who has voted, yes or no, and to all the
magistrates who helped this event happen.

The aim of lex Memmia de provocatione was to precise the legal frame
on provocatio, following the appeal made by Quaestor Paulinus.

This proposal took the narrow path existing between the necessity of
precising this frame and the difficulty to change it basically, for
such a modification may only be made by an constitutional amendment
through a vote of the comitia centuriata.

I had, if some of you remind it, accepted the appeal of provocatio
made by Ti.Galerius Paulinus against our tribunician collective
decision of January (which set that there was in our view no vacancy
in the Tribunate). Accepting the appeal, I have thus considered
that, even if he/she thinks that the appealant is wrong, no
magistrate might refuse to convoke the comitia populi tributa to
hear the citizen claim. My decision was vetoed by a majority of my
tribuni collegae.

With the negative vote on « de provocatione » draft, the People
considers that the proposed answer is not accurate.

So we come back to the situation which existed when my decision has
been vetoed.

Our debate has shown us that a constitutional modification is the
only way to redefine the field of right to provocatio, for example
according what existed in ancient Rome. Some citizens have surely
taken this consideration in account and cast a negative vote against
the proposed text.

But some other citizens may consider, like Hon. Ti. Galerius
Paulinus, that we must not limit the right of provocatio as it is
currently written in our constitution.

For the moment, we are in an unpleasant situation where a
constitutional right of a plebeian citizen to be listened by the
comitia has been denied thanks to an « key » power recognized by the
same constitution to the tribunes of the plebs.

I think that the importance of such an event must not be
underestimated. And make us think on how works our hierarchy of
legal rules and powers.

The positive vote of the « de provocatione » draft would have opened
for us a way to smooth the difficulties recently created and,
possibly, to prepare a modification of the constitutional rules on
provocatio.

The current negative vote result could make things harder,
radicalize the different positions, and make us all loose a precious
time.

I have personally done all that I could do to propose an immediate
answer and a fair, legal, medium and non-political way to get out of
the asked question. Though many voices daily claim, in our forum,
for less politics, we have lost a real opportunity to have this wish
come true.

Valete omnes,

Scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia, Kal. Sept. MMDCCLVIII a.u.c.

Publius Memmius Albucius
Tribunus Plebis

Salve,

If I may ask, what states are these other Temples in?

Thanks!
mTv

marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salvete Marce Artori, comreligiones et alii

Laws vary from country to country on establishing a legally
recognized religious organization. From what I understand it is
easier to do that in the US than elsewhere. A religious
organization is set up through state and federal laws and is about
the same process throughout the US.

Establishing individual temples as you refer to would depend on
state laws and they vary greatly. Cato says 10 people needed for
NY. In some states it is only five where other states require as
many as 50 people. These temples might need to be set up
independently, each incorporated separately, which could then
affiliate with a religious organization. Doing it the other way,
with the religious organization trying to establish temples in
different states can pose more difficult problems. In some states it
can come down to a court ruling that you are a religion (same
problem in Europe).

As for your priests gaining legal recognition, this also varies from
state to state. The priest would need written recognition as a
priest from his or her sponsoring temple. Then in states that
require it, the priest would have to apply for a license authorizing
him or her to perform marriages. In Ohio the fee was $10.00 when I
applied to the State's Attorney General, and then I had to register
at the county court house. Performing marriages without a license
in Ohio I think brings a fine of $600.00 and up to six months
incarceration for each marriage performed.

Currently the only legally recognized temple in the US, as Marca
Hortensia said, is the Temple of Religio Romana in the LA area of
southern California. http://www.religioromana.net/index.htm It is
not affiliated in any way with Nova Roma. Gryllus Graecus and I do
form the Board of Advisors to the Temple's Board of Directors. There
are groups in other states that are trying now to incorporate and
gain legal recognition as temples. None of those groups with which
I work currently are affiliated with Nova Roma.

Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@y...> wrote:

> G. Equitius Cato Marco Arturio S.P.D.
>
> Salve Marcus Artorius.
>
> I do not think the religio has been set up (at least within Nova

Roma

> or under her auspices) as a legal church in the U.S. I do know

that

> in New York at least you must have something like 10 members

willing

> to sign an affidavit swearing that they are, indeed, members of the
> church, accompanied by incorporation papers, a charter, etc. ---
> basically an entirely seperate legal entity.
>
> I would also imagine that the College of Pontiffs would be the only
> body authorized under the Constitution and laws of the Republic to
> create such an entity *within* Nova Roma.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Coleman"

<stardragon1@m...>

> wrote:
> > Ave!
> >
> > I have a question, is the Nova Roman Religion setup as an actual
> > church/temple anywhere? Such as having priests that are fully
> > authorized to perform ceremonies such as weddings, that would be
> > recognized legally by the country it was performed in (such as
> > performing a legal marriage in the USA as a Nova Roman priest).
> >
> > If not, has there been any plans to do so? I think it would be a
> > great step to making the religion a viable alternative for the
> > citizens of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Also, would the foreign religions be included in such an
> > incorporation? Or would each one have to be set up as as their

own

> > entity for legal purposes? Or how would that work? Say if

someone

> > wanted to set up a modern day Church of Mithras for example,

would

> > it be headed as a member of Nova Roma, or as its own seperate
> > church? And if someone wanted to do that with one of the foreign
> > religions, what would he have to do, with regards to Nova Roma,

to

> > get permission to do that? Say if I wanted to open the above
> > mentioned Church, would I have to get offical approval from the
> > Senate?
> >
> > Marcus Artorius

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Ita di deaque faxint!
Marcus Traianus Valerius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Artorio salutem dicit

I have seen your application to become a Sacerdos and have forwarded to the
Collegium Pontificum list. We are currently convened, and are voting on
several issues. Hopefully we can address your application by the end of
September.

Currently Nova Roma is incorporated as a "Cultural" society (or something of
the sort). I would like to see Nova Roma (via the Collegium Pontificum)
also incorporate as a religious organization for the advancement of the Religio
Romana, but there needs to be more support for such an endeavor.

Vale;

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
Pontifex

In a message dated 9/1/2005 4:18:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stardragon1@... writes:

Ave Cato,

Well, I have already applied to become a Sacerdos of one of the
foreign cults (Isis and Serapis), so now I have to wait the required
4-6 weeks before I can bug them about my application.

If I could find the people in California, I do plan on attempting
the legal church route. After years of trying to find dedicated
practicioners or locations of fellowship (in the pagan community at
least), and becoming quite frustrated at finding neither, I would
like to try and do something about it.

We'll see how it goes...

As for California, well, we almost moved to New York or Mass...but
my wife had family in California, and grew up here (in Santa
Barbara), so we moved to California.

Marcus Artorius






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Salvete Quirites of US!

What can I say, my heart goes out to Louisiana. Mississippi and the
whole of US!

The terrible hurricane has destroyed many cities and killed a huge
number of people in these areas and I am so sad when I think of all
that is lost. Swedish authorities has promised to send what little
help our small country can send if such help is asked for. I am sure
that we soon will see the whole world gather to support the victims
of the hurricane.

Let us pray to the Gods for their support and comfort.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I can only echo the words of support issued by my Pater Familias. I have
been following the devastation of Hurricane Katrina and I cannot put into words
the devastation that it has caused. Nova Romans needs to come together and
pray to whatever God or Gods they hold dear for the relief of the victims of
this natural tragedy.

Also, please also remember Lucia Modia Lupa, a Vestal of Nova Roma. She and
her daughter have recently moved to New Orleans. I pray for their health
and safety.

Vale;

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

In a message dated 9/1/2005 6:12:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
christer.edling@... writes:

Salvete Quirites of US!

What can I say, my heart goes out to Louisiana. Mississippi and the
whole of US!

The terrible hurricane has destroyed many cities and killed a huge
number of people in these areas and I am so sad when I think of all
that is lost. Swedish authorities has promised to send what little
help our small country can send if such help is asked for. I am sure
that we soon will see the whole world gather to support the victims
of the hurricane.

Let us pray to the Gods for their support and comfort.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave C. Fabius Buteo Modianus, and thank you for letting me know my
application has been recieved and about when to hear something.
Hopefully something good too.

What may I ask though, would be required for the Religio Romana to
incorporate as a religious organization? How much support would it
need, etc? I'm fairly well knowledged in what it takes at the state
level, but what about national level? Or even internationally?

Marcus Artorius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
>
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Artorio salutem dicit
>
> I have seen your application to become a Sacerdos and have
forwarded to the
> Collegium Pontificum list. We are currently convened, and are
voting on
> several issues. Hopefully we can address your application by the
end of
> September.
>
> Currently Nova Roma is incorporated as a "Cultural" society (or
something of
> the sort). I would like to see Nova Roma (via the Collegium
Pontificum)
> also incorporate as a religious organization for the advancement
of the Religio
> Romana, but there needs to be more support for such an endeavor.
>
> Vale;
>
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Pontifex
>
> In a message dated 9/1/2005 4:18:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> stardragon1@m... writes:
>
> Ave Cato,
>
> Well, I have already applied to become a Sacerdos of one of the
> foreign cults (Isis and Serapis), so now I have to wait the
required
> 4-6 weeks before I can bug them about my application.
>
> If I could find the people in California, I do plan on attempting
> the legal church route. After years of trying to find dedicated
> practicioners or locations of fellowship (in the pagan community
at
> least), and becoming quite frustrated at finding neither, I would
> like to try and do something about it.
>
> We'll see how it goes...
>
> As for California, well, we almost moved to New York or
Mass...but
> my wife had family in California, and grew up here (in Santa
> Barbara), so we moved to California.
>
> Marcus Artorius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Marce Valeri et omnes

On the Ides of September I shall be going to Philadelphia to assist a
group there in a public right at a Pagan Festival. The ritual is to
be performed for Jupiter O. M., Juno Capitolina and Minerva, and may
involve the rite of the hammering of the nail to mark the begining of
their temple.

Another temple will soon be formed in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area of
Texas. I have tentative plans to go to Texas next spring to meet with
them, and possibly go on to Austin and another city in Texas. A
group in my home state of Ohio should be incorporated before the end
of the year. I was in Minnesota last March, but nothing much came of
that trip. There are some other individuals in the eastern US who
have asked me about forming temples, but they have not yet formed
groups to begin the work. These are in North Carolina, western
Pennsylvannia, Tennessee, Wisconsin, and D. C.

Valete optime et vadete in pace Deorum
M Moravius Piscinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Traianus Valerius
<genstraiana@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> If I may ask, what states are these other Temples in?
>
> Thanks!
> mTv
>
>

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Artorio salutem dicit

It would take the approval of the Senate, and the Collegium Pontificum. I
suppose the Collegium Pontificum COULD do it on their own, but I would think
it best to gain senate approval. Once the approval of the pontifices and the
senators has been accomplished the actual incorporation papers would need to
be filed (that's the easy part). Getting the pontifices and the senators to
agree... that is the difficult part -- and what Nova Roma politics are about
:) .

Vale;

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
Pontifex

In a message dated 9/1/2005 6:22:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
stardragon1@... writes:

Ave C. Fabius Buteo Modianus, and thank you for letting me know my
application has been recieved and about when to hear something.
Hopefully something good too.

What may I ask though, would be required for the Religio Romana to
incorporate as a religious organization? How much support would it
need, etc? I'm fairly well knowledged in what it takes at the state
level, but what about national level? Or even internationally?

Marcus Artorius






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tribune Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@h...> wrote:

> Trb. Albucius Paulino, Athanasio, Calvo aliis omnibusque s.d.
>
> S.V.B.E.E.V.
>
>
> I have posted yesterday a modified version of my edict 58-18 of

the

> 5th august reporting the last Senate session.
>
> Here are the answers that I may bring to the interesting remarks
> made by some citizens :
>
> 1/ The language : the previous version of my edict included
> some mistakes. Some are big ones, others seem smaller. I give you
> all my apologies for the first ones, committed on the night before
> my driving to Rome. Concerning the second ones, I have well
> understood that every of you have underlined the fact that this
> point was not a real problem if the text is fully understandable.

At

> last, reading some of previous laws or magisterial edicts has
> convinced me that the respect of « the language of Shakespeare »,

to

> quote some of honorable citizens, was, even for English speaking
> citizens, as variable as the use of latin at ancient roman times.
>
>
> 2/ On Consular Quaestor Paulinus's remarks (message ML 36903) :
>
> a) « You also posted that the Senate was considering
> removing "INTERPRETERS AND
> « LICTORES" counted as members of the Capite Censi. It should be
> noted that both Senator Lucius Cornelius « Sulla Felix and Lucius
> Sicinius Drusus taxes are paid and are both Assidui. »
>
> I have just taken in account the internal report of Consul Caesar,
> quoted in my introduction (6th « in view »). I was not authorized

to

> contest such an information which enters the consular field of
> competency. My task is here to report to the People, using this

way

> the informations given by the consular office.
> If the presiding consul has been wrong in including Hon. Sulla and
> Sicinius in the list of the citizens that he has suggested to
> dismiss from office, he should have been warned before he convoked
> the Senate, and by you, dear consular Quaestor ;-). I thus see

here

> two logical possibilities : either both Senators were assidui

before

> Consul Caesar convoked the Senate, and a problem thus occurred in
> your consular office internal communication ; or they became

assidui

> after the convocation, and the decision of the Senate keeps its

full

> effect. Anyway, it is an internal consular question that you

should

> see with Consul Caesar.
>
> b) « Senator Lucius Sicinius Drusus (..) has not been allowed

to «

> resume his place in the Senate by action of our two Censors

because

> of « last years controversy »
>
> Both Consuls have just confirmed to me that Senator Drusus is a
> member of the Senate, and that the list of the Senate contained in
> NR web site is accurate.
>
>
>
> 3/ On Senatrix Strabo's remark (message ML 36912)
>
> « Section B5 troubles me with respect to the situation at hand:
> Quoting: "If the Senate has voted on an item of a confidential
> nature, for example, the dismissal of a citizen, for the

protection

> of the citizen(s) in question the reporting Tribune should confer
> with the Senate as to what details of the

discussion/comments/voting

> should be reported to the citizens." ».
>
> I took here in consideration first the fact that the presiding
> consul did not underlined me a possible difficulty with the point
> voted by the Senate.
> Furthermore and second, I have considered, like Consul Caesar,

that

> the fact that some officers do not pay their taxes cannot be, by
> essence, « of a confidential nature » since paying the annual tax

is

> a legal condition to hold an office. At last, our citizens must be
> dully informed each time one of us looses (or wins) its office,

i.e.

> the right of representing our Res publica.
>
>
> 4/ The fact that the report would not be understandable
>
> I have read this criticism in Caius Modius Athanasius and Q.

Cassius

> Calvus's messages, which think that the report « needs to be
> simpler ». This observation seems to be supported by 3
> considerations :
>
> a) The introduction
>
> « There is no need for paragraph after paragraph of "in
> light of this and in light of that" in order to explain what is

self

> explanitory (..) it's the format that is confusing on top of all

the

> unneccessary 5 articles of legal introductory » (Magister
> Aranearius Q. Cassius Calvus)
>
> I know that, for some of you, these « introductory » lines may

seem

> unuseful. In my view, there are useful for every citizen or
> magistrate who may thus see on which ground I take my edict, here

on

> the publication of the senate session results. For example, the

fact

> that I quote the Consul message let you all understand that I take
> my informations from this message with no power of judgment on the
> informations given by it. This paragraph has, thus, sometimes, a
> great importance.
>
> Concerning the style « in view of.. », I thank you trusting me

that

> this style is, in my culture, juridically correct. I am also
> convinced that such formal processes, identifying each of the step
> of the magistrate's reasoning, help citizens and magistrates have

a

> clear information on the decision, and thus law be much better
> respected by all. This writing is not contrary to the laws of Nova
> Roma and seems understandable by all good willing citizen. If some
> cives had still some understanding difficulties, they could
> replace « in view of » by « taking in consideration.. » or...

write

> me privately, so that I give them new informations if necessary.
>
>
> b) The contents itself
>
> Whatever one might think, the more the session of the senate is

long

> and complex, the more the report is complex.
>
> I think that the difficulty that Caius Modius Athanasius has lived
> may be located in the fact that the votes of the senators are

given

> in a sole line (ex. UR/ABS/UR), instead of having each item
> presented in a specific article.
>
> On this point, I am not opposed to come back to this presentation
> next time.
>
> On the matter, the difference is small. In case of reading
> difficulty, I suggest you to copy the text of the edict in Word

and

> to print it : it makes the reading far easier.
>
>
> c) « the commentary must be clear within the context of the report
> to be that of the reporting Tribune. » (Calvus)
>
> It is. A specific article is provided for this commentary.
>
>
>
> 5/ On others Calvus's observations
>
>
> a) « I can't make either heads nor tails of it for the
> purposes of posting in the Tabularium under the subsection reserved
> for the meetings of the Senate. »
>
> The magister aranearius has to adapt the tools that he/she
> creates to the life of the Res publica and to the decisions of its
> assemblies and magistrates. Not the contrary.
>
> I am however open to every request from the Magister aranearius

that

> would be made directly, from a magistrate to another, not via the
> forum : our main list is the place for democracy, debates and
> communication, not for daily government.
>
>
>
> b) « Technically what was issued is >>>>not<<<< even a Senatorial
> Report. It is an Edict. »
>
> Unless Hon. Calvus has reacted as a citizen - but he seemed
> have not, for I see a « magister aranearius » in the signing at

the

> bottom of the messages, I have to say my surprise reading such a
> jugment from a magister aranearius.
>
> I do not want to recall here that such a magister, according Lex
> Equitia de vigintisexviris, « shall be responsible for the design,
> maintenance, and any alteration of the official web site(s)
> sponsored by the State. ». I do not find in these provisions the
> power of inferring in the way a tribunus plebis fulfill her/his
> office.
>
> Just to stay in a pedagogical field, dear Calvus, I shall remind
> that the edict is just the formal way a magistrate uses to make an
> act. If a governor designs an accensus, he/she should make this
> designation public through an edict ; if he dismisses an officer,
> idem ; if her/she organizes her/his province, idem, etc..
> Even if a tribune makes a report, this report should be issued
> through an edict. Why ? Because this formal way has both
> characteristics : to create some compulsary effects ; to be
> published so that the magisterial act could be juridically

attacked.

> So we must not confound the edict - the legal envelop - and the
> contents : reporting what the Senate has said and decided.
>
> Generally speaking, if you have, dear Magister, too much work, let
> us all know it and try to find some help in your hard office.
>
>
> 6/ On the use of templates, such as Aventina's one
>
> Diana Octavia Aventina has considered that « It's a shame that

they

> [the tribunes] don't use [the template that she has communicated

to

> the tribunate]. » (message ML 36925, then 36954 and 36955).
>
> Do not worry, dear Aventina, we tribunes do use your « Tribunes's
> handbook ». I have personnally included it in the Tribunate files

at

> the beginning of this year and still refer to it regularly, as

other

> tribunes do. However, you should imagine, as wise as you are, that
> the daily life of a well occupied tribune leaves a very tiny place
> for regular consulting of previous and illustrious magistrates :

we

> have still not much time to coordinate we five ! So, even we do

not

> ask you for information, you are still, with your handsbook, by

our

> side. Is it not a great thing, indeed ?
>
> So please do not forget two points : first that life goes on, and

we

> are all to improve the tools that our wise predecessors have left
> us. In this view, some of year 2758 tribunes edicts might be added
> to your Handbook to carry on improving it, for your templates have
> not provided all situations ; the second point is on how we write

in

> the ML. On this last point, I think that your « it's a shame «
> should not be read through its worst sense (« honte » in French),
> should it ?
>
>
> 7/ On various things
>
> I have read at last different considerations, which do not seem to
> have a precise and direct relation with the question of the senate
> session reporting : too much technocracy, too many laws, too much
> talk, and the asking by Hon. Athanasius to my colleague Maior to «
> take your job seriously » (message ML 36955).
>
> I will not react on the three first considerations : we may all of
> us agree with it, because these judgments are as good as they are
> general ones. Bringing solutions to these deep questions would ask
> us more common work, that is not in direct relation with our small
> senate reporting question.
>
> On your suggestion, dear Athanasius, to Tribune Maior to « (..)

take

> [her] job seriously and heed the counsel of the people instead of
> sitting perched on your ego with blinders on.», I think, dear
> Athanasius, that your reproach is not justified at all in this
> context.
>
> Your honor of civis romanus and Pontifex should incite you to
> apologize for this unfair judgment : first, I am not sure that you
> may speak, in this circumstance, on behalf of the whole People of
> Nova Roma ; second, here, Tribune Maior has acted with virtue and
> moderation. I do not see at last any form of «ego » in the fact

that

> she has taken in charge, while I was in the conventus Romae, a

part

> of my charge, including the discussion she had with you. At he
> contrary. So thanks to you in advance, for your understanding and
> the kind words that you could send to Hon. Hortensia Maior, dear
> Athanasius. :-)
>
>
> Valete omnes,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> Tribunus Plebis

Salvete Omnes:

I was all set to reply to a message of today in this forum...and I
accidentally pressed 'send' and I had intended to press 'cancel',
because I have to log off...so there is no reply from me attached to
the message I just sent...doh!...as you might see and scratch your
head...that's ok...nothing else has gone right today :) one of those
days.....

My apologies
Pompeia

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.


De profundis clamavi ad te, Domine:
Domine, exaudi vocem meam:
Fiant aures tuae intendentes,
in vocem deprecationis meae.

Oculi omnium in te sperant, Domine, et tu das illis escam in tempore
opportuno. Edent pauperes et saturabuntur, et laudabunt Dominum, qui
requirunt eum: vivant corda eorum in saeculum saeculi.

Te lucis ante terminum, rerum Creator, poscimus ut pro tua clementia
sis praesul et custodia. Procul recedant somnia et noctium
phantasmata; hostemque nostrum comprime, ne polluantur corpora.

Magnae Deus potentiae, qui ex aquis ortum genus partim remittis
gurgiti, partim levas in aera. Ut cum profunda clauserit diem caligo
noctium, fides tenebras nesciat et nox fide reluceat.

Domine, ne in furore tuo arguas me, neque in ira tua corripias me.
Miserere mei, Domine, quoniam infirmus sum; sana me, Domine, quoniam
conturbata sunt ossa mea.
Et anima mea turbata est valde, sed tu, Domine, usquequo?
Convertere, Domine, et eripe animam meam; salvum me fac propter
misericordiam tuam.
Quoniam non est in morte, qui memor sit tui, in inferno autem quis
confitebitur tibi?
Laboravi in gemitu meo, lavabo per singulas noctes lectum meum;
lacrimis meis stratum meum rigabo.
Turbatus est a furore oculus meus, inveteravi inter omnes inimicos meos.


Requiem in aeternum dona eis Domine; et lux perpetua luceat eis.



Valete in pax Deum.

Cato

I echo this. I left a part of my soul in New Orleans this year, and
the stories of the people are heart wrenching. I have been in
mourning past few days, and urge all those in the Religio Romana to
pray to the gods that the people be rescued and the cities restored.



Valete,
Cyrene Gladia Corva Apollonis

On 9/1/05, AthanasiosofSpfd@... <AthanasiosofSpfd@...> wrote:
>
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> I can only echo the words of support issued by my Pater Familias. I have
> been following the devastation of Hurricane Katrina and I cannot put into
> words
> the devastation that it has caused. Nova Romans needs to come together and
>
> pray to whatever God or Gods they hold dear for the relief of the victims
> of
> this natural tragedy.
>
> Also, please also remember Lucia Modia Lupa, a Vestal of Nova Roma. She
> and
> her daughter have recently moved to New Orleans. I pray for their health
> and safety.
>
> Vale;
>
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> In a message dated 9/1/2005 6:12:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> christer.edling@... writes:
>
> Salvete Quirites of US!
>
> What can I say, my heart goes out to Louisiana. Mississippi and the
> whole of US!
>
> The terrible hurricane has destroyed many cities and killed a huge
> number of people in these areas and I am so sad when I think of all
> that is lost. Swedish authorities has promised to send what little
> help our small country can send if such help is asked for. I am sure
> that we soon will see the whole world gather to support the victims
> of the hurricane.
>
> Let us pray to the Gods for their support and comfort.

Thank you for the information. Can you put me in contact with the people in Wisconsin? I live in Kenosha.

Vale!
mTv


marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salvete Marce Valeri et omnes

On the Ides of September I shall be going to Philadelphia to assist a
group there in a public right at a Pagan Festival. The ritual is to
be performed for Jupiter O. M., Juno Capitolina and Minerva, and may
involve the rite of the hammering of the nail to mark the begining of
their temple.

Another temple will soon be formed in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area of
Texas. I have tentative plans to go to Texas next spring to meet with
them, and possibly go on to Austin and another city in Texas. A
group in my home state of Ohio should be incorporated before the end
of the year. I was in Minnesota last March, but nothing much came of
that trip. There are some other individuals in the eastern US who
have asked me about forming temples, but they have not yet formed
groups to begin the work. These are in North Carolina, western
Pennsylvannia, Tennessee, Wisconsin, and D. C.

Valete optime et vadete in pace Deorum
M Moravius Piscinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Traianus Valerius
<genstraiana@y...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> If I may ask, what states are these other Temples in?
>
> Thanks!
> mTv
>
>

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Ita di deaque faxint!
Marcus Traianus Valerius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete, omnes -

We have followed the whole Katrina disaster on TV and I know that many
people here are numbed by the sheer scale of destruction and the power of
the elements. Of course our thoughts and prayers go out to all those caught
up in these frightening events, along with the hope that urgent action will
be taken to ensure that such a thing can never happen again. Yes, Marce
Flavi, the US has lost an entire city - and a famous one all over the world
- but the scale of it did not really penetrate to our TVs here till
yesterday.

Di vobiscum maneant.

Sextus Pilatus Barbatus.



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of raymond fuentes
Sent: 01 September 2005 22:47
To: newavewarriors@yahoogroups.com; nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The price of being America.



Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vale Marcvs Flavivs Fides

With all due respect for the people hit in New Orleans and around
(among whom I count a friend of mine, professor at the New Orleans
University, from whom I have no news whatsoever since 5 days ago), I
do not think think the silence of the mailing list of these hours is
to be blamed on the evilness of the people here towards the United
States.

The fact is, I think the human spirit is usually more moved by and is
more ready to react to tragedies hitting people who already have an
every day tragic life (and most of the Asiatic south east falls within
the category), then when to be hit by an equally huge tragedy is the
first superpower of the world which, theoretically, should be able to
hold its own and should have by itself the necessary means to prepare
appropiately for such events and deal with the consequences.

It took a while for us to realize the extent of what happened
(actually, to your authorities as well, if it tooks them 2 days to
have an idea of what is going on) and I guess the reaction around is
still of disbelief, together with lack of understanding (and news like
the suspension of reliefs because people are sacking what is left of
the city and shooting on the relief personnel doesn't help us at all),
rather than anything else. It is a bit like when this landmark you
have seen all your life crumbles in front of you, it takes a while to
realize the extent of it and the fact people could be under the
rubbles.

So, while I hope with all my strenghts that the situation will be
under control soon, and I'm sure that help will soon be on its way
from all around the world (several squads of the italian civil
protection are being embarked on planes to US just in these hours,
just to make an example), I think that mails like this, bringing the
message "oh, you evil people here hate the US", while possibly
justified by the heat of the moment, both don't reflect the real
situation and can't but be pointlessly divisive for the american and
non american communities of Nova Roma.

Personally, my thoughts are with all the people hit by this new
disaster and I'll be sure to make my donation when a fund will be
opened here in Italy (which I'm sure it's going to be today).

Vale

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum

On 9/1/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
> Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
> pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
> U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>

G. Tullius Rufus G. Vipsanio Agrippae salutem dicit:

Yet another reason for me to buy 'Rome: Total War' as Jennifer Love Hewitt is particularly gorgeous! Even though she would be but a computer sprite or polygon or whatever they are these days...

Vale optime!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:56 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rome-Total War question


Salvete omnes

I finally got some free time and started playing Rome - Total War. I just have a question that maybe some other players can answer. One member of the retinue of a city governor is the slave girl. Is this just wishful thinking on my part or does she really look like Jennifer Love Hewitt to anyone else?

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is postridie Kalendas Septembris; the day is Fastus, and it is a
dies ater.

"Stat sua cuique dies, breve et irreparabile tempus omnibus est
vitae." (The day is decided for each and everyone, the lifespan is
short and irreplaceable for everybody) - Vergil, Aenis

"The speech of Appius only availed to effect the postponement of the
voting. Sextius and Licinius were re-elected for the tenth time. They
carried a law providing that of the ten keepers of the Sibylline
Books, five should be chosen from the patricians and five from the
plebeians. This was regarded as a further step towards opening the
path to the consulship. The plebs, satisfied with their victory, made
the concession to the patricians that for the present all mention of
consuls should be dropped. Consular tribunes were accordingly elected.
Their names were A. and M. Cornelius (each for the second time), M.
Geganius, P. Manlius, L. Veturius, and P. Valerius (for the sixth
time). With the exception of the siege of Velitrae, in which the
result was delayed rather than doubtful, Rome was quiet so far as
foreign affairs went. Suddenly the City was startled by rumours of the
hostile advance of the Gauls. M. Furius Camillus was nominated
Dictator for the fifth time. He named as his Master of the Horse T.
Quinctius Poenus. Claudius is our authority for the statement that a
battle was fought at the Anio with the Gauls this year, and that it
was then that the famous fight took place on the bridge in which T.
Manlius killed a Gaul who had challenged him and then despoiled him of
his golden collar in the sight of both armies. I am more inclined,
with the majority of authors, to believe that these occurrences took
place ten years later. There was, however, a pitched battle fought
this year by the Dictator, M. F. Camillus, against the Gauls in the
Alban territory. Although, bearing in mind their former defeat, the
Romans felt a great dread of the Gauls, their victory was neither
doubtful nor difficult. Many thousands of the barbarians were slain in
the battle, many more in the capture of their camp. Many others,
making chiefly in the direction of Apulia, escaped, some by distant
flight, and others who had become widely scattered and in their panic
had lost their way.

By the joint consent of the senate and plebs a triumph was decreed to
the Dictator. He had hardly disposed of that war before a more
alarming commotion awaited him at home. After tremendous conflicts,
the Dictator and the senate were worsted; consequently the proposals
of the tribunes were carried, and in spite of the opposition of the
nobility the elections were held for consuls. L. Sextius was the first
consul to be elected out of the plebs. Even that was not the end of
the conflict. The patricians refused to confirm the appointment, and
matters were approaching a secession of the plebs and other
threatening signs of appalling civic struggles. The Dictator, however,
quieted the disturbances by arranging a compromise; the nobility made
a concession in the matter of a plebeian consul, the plebs gave way to
the nobility on the appointment of a praetor to administer justice in
the City who was to be a patrician. Thus after their long estrangement
the two orders of the State were at length brought into harmony. The
senate decided that this event deserved to be commemorated - and if
ever the immortal gods merited men's gratitude, they merited it then -
by the celebration of the Great Games, and a fourth day was added to
the three hitherto devoted to them. The plebeian aediles refused to
superintend them, whereupon the younger patricians were unanimous in
declaring that they would gladly allow themselves to be appointed
aediles for the honour of the immortal gods. They were universally
thanked, and the senate made a decree that the Dictator should ask the
people to elect two aediles from amongst the patricians, and that the
senate should confirm all the elections of that year." - Livy, History
of Rome 6.42


On this day in 31 B.C., Marc Antony lost the naval battle of Actium to
Octavian and Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa. Antony's fleet consisted
primarily of massive quinqueremes with bronze plates while Octavianus'
fleet was made up mainly of smaller Liburnian vessels. The
quinqueremes had the advantage of height from which to shoot or attack
from and the advantage of the plates which protected them from
ramming. The Liburnian ships were much more maneuverable. At the time
the primary nature of Roman naval battles was to maneuver into
position to ram the opponent and thus sink their ship. Since the
quinqueremes couldn't maneuver quick enough to ram the faster
Liburnian ships and the Liburnians couldn't do much damage even if
they did ram the plated quinqueremes the battle progressed more as a
land battle than a standard sea battle. Antony's ships rowed out in
two wings where Octavianus' ships were gathered at the entrance to the
Gulf. Antony tried to flank Octavianus' right but the sudden move
threw his own center into confusion. When Octavianus' center took
advantage of the confusion the fighting grew heavy. All day the
unusual battle progressed with the land tactics of arrows and spears
being fired back and forth without much chance of tangible gain. Late
in the afternoon, Cleopatra and her squadron of 60 ships suddenly
raised their sails and raced away from the center of the battle to the
open ocean. Antony's reaction has baffled historians for ages. When
he saw Cleopatra leaving, Antony immediately left his command ship and
followed her with 40 of his own ships following. Some have attributed
Antony's rash departure to being caught off guard when his lover
decided to leave him. Others have argued that Antony and Cleopatra had
always secretly planned for him to steal away with her once her ships
had the opportunity to break free. What is certain is that a quarter
of Antony's fleet left without warning in the middle of the battle
leaving the remainder of his fleet to their doom. By the end of the
day the Antonian forces had lost 5000 lives and 300 ships. Octavianus
no longer had an enemy capable of contending with him on the sea. A
week later when all hope of Antony's return was lost, Antony's land
forces surrendered as well.


"When it was resolved to stand to a fight at sea, they set fire to all
the Egyptian ships except sixty; and of these the best and largest,
from ten banks down to three, he manned with twenty thousand
full-armed men, and two thousand archers. Here it is related that a
foot captain, one that had fought often under Antony, and had his body
all mangled with wounds, exclaimed, "O, my general, what have our
wounds and swords done to displease you, that you should give your
confidence to rotten timbers? Let Egyptians and Phoenicians contend at
sea, give us the land, where we know well how to die upon the spot or
gain the victory." To which he answered nothing, but, by his look and
motion of his hand seeming to bid him be of good courage, passed
forwards, having already, it would seem, no very sure hopes, since
when the masters proposed leaving the sails behind them, he commanded
they should be put aboard, "For we must not," said he, "let one enemy
escape."

That day and the three following the sea was so rough they could not
engage. But on the fifth there was a calm, and they fought; Antony
commanding with Publicola the right, and Coelius the left squadron,
Marcus Octavius and Marcus Insteius the center. Caesar gave the charge
of the left to Agrippa, commanding in person on the right. As for the
land-forces, Canidius was general for Antony, Taurus for Caesar; both
armies remaining drawn up in order along the shore. Antony in a small
boat went from one ship to another, encouraging his soldiers, and
bidding them stand firm, and fight as steadily on their large ships as
if they were on land. The masters he ordered that they should receive
the enemy lying still as if they were at anchor, and maintain the
entrance of the port, which was a narrow and difficult passage. Of
Caesar they relate, that, leaving his tent and going round, while it
was yet dark, to visit the ships, he met a man driving an ass, and
asked him his name. He answered him that his own name was "Fortunate,
and my ass," says he, "is called Conqueror." And afterwards, when he
disposed the beaks of the ships in that place in token of his victory,
the statue of this man and his ass in bronze were placed amongst them.
After examining the rest of his fleet, he went in a boat to the right
wing, and looked with much admiration at the enemy lying perfectly
still in the straits, in all appearance as if they had been at anchor.
For some considerable length of time he actually thought they were so,
and kept his own ships at rest, at a distance of about eight furlongs
from them. But about noon a breeze sprang up from the sea, and
Antony's men, weary of expecting the enemy so long, and trusting to
their large tall vessels, as if they had been invincible, began to
advance the left squadron. Caesar was overjoyed to see them move, and
ordered his own right squadron to retire, that he might entice them
out to sea as far as he could, his design being to sail round and
round, and so with his light and well-manned galleys to attack these
huge vessels, which their size and their want of men made slow to move
and difficult to manage.

When they engaged, there was no charging or striking of one ship by
another, because Antony's, by reason of their great bulk, were
incapable of the rapidity required to make the stroke effectual, and,
on the other side, Caesar's durst not charge head to head on Antony's,
which were all armed with solid masses and spikes of brass; nor did
they like even to run in on their sides, which were so strongly built
with great squared pieces of timber, fastened together with iron
bolts, that their vessels' beaks would easily have been shattered upon
them. So that the engagement resembled a land fight, or, to speak yet
more properly, the attack and defense of a fortified place; for there
were always three or four vessels of Caesar's about one of Antony's,
pressing them with spears, javelins, poles, and several inventions of
fire, which they flung among them, Antony's men using catapults also,
to pour down missiles from wooden towers. Agrippa drawing out the
squadron under his command to outflank the enemy, Publicola was
obliged to observe his motions, and gradually to break off from the
middle squadron, where some confusion and alarm ensued, while
Arruntius engaged them. But the fortune of the day was still
undecided, and the battle equal, when on a sudden Cleopatra's sixty
ships were seen hoisting sail and making out to sea in full flight,
right through the ships that were engaged. For they were placed behind
the great ships, which, in breaking through, they put into disorder.
The enemy was astonished to see them sailing off with a fair wind
towards Peloponnesus. Here it was that Antony showed to all the world
that he was no longer actuated by the thoughts and motives of a
commander or a man, or indeed by his own judgment at all, and what was
once said as a jest, that the soul of a lover lives in some one else's
body, he proved to be a serious truth. For, as if he had been born
part of her, and must move with her wheresoever she went, as soon as
he saw her ship sailing away, he abandoned all that were fighting and
spending their lives for him, and put himself aboard a galley of five
ranks of oars, taking with him only Alexander of Syria and Scellias,
to follow her that had so well begun his ruin and would hereafter
accomplish it." - Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Antony"


"And golden Dionysus took to wife
the fair-haired Ariadne, Minos' child:
The son of Kronos saved her from death and age." - Hesiod, Theogony,
947-949

"I saw Phaedra, Procne and the beautiful Ariadne
she who had been the daughter of baneful Minos, she whom Theseus
had once tried to take from Crete to the hill of sacred Athens
but did not even enjoy her" - Homer, Odyssey xi.321-324

In ancient Greece, today was celebrated in honor of Ariadne.
Originally Ariadne was a vegetation goddess in Crete related to the
other Cretan goddesses especially to Britomartis. Sometimes Ariadne
was associated with the surname "Very Holy Maid," because her name is
a variant of Ariagne from the Greek word agni, which means "the most
holy." Under this title -- agni -- Aphrodite on Delos was honoured.
According to the Greek myths Ariadne was the daughter of the Cretan
king Minos and his wife Pasiphae. The story about her life and death
was narrated by many ways in the different regions, but in all of her
legends she left Crete and she suffered terrible sorrow.

In the Odyssey is told that Ariadne was abducted and taken to the
island of Dia where she died, because Artemis put her to death.
According to the myth which was the most known, she fell in love with
the Athenian hero Theseus, who was coming to Crete to kill the
Minotaur and to rescue the Athenian youth. In the older version of the
myth she was already the loved one of Dionysus, when Theseus came to
Crete. Thus Ariadne helped Theseus by promising her to take her to
Athens as his wife. She gave him two special gifts -- a sword and a
clue of thread --- to find a way back from the Cnossian Labyrinth
after killing the Minotaur. As promised, she left Crete with Theseus
and with the Athenian youth and they stopped on the island of Naxos.
While Ariadne was asleep, in her dream (or in Theseus' dream?) the god
Dionysus appeared on her and gave her a divine command to stay in
Naxos, because he wanted to marry her. Interestingly, we know also
some other versions, why Theseus deserted his sleeping Ariadne in
Naxos: maybe he had already a new lover or he was afraid to bring
Ariadne with him to Athens? So, Theseus with the rescued Athenian
youth, but without Ariadne, sailed to Attica over Delos (a small
island near Mykonos), where they performed some rites (a special
dance) and dedicated the old statue of the goddess from Crete to the
local sanctuary. Ariadne in the meantime felt extremely unhappy, when
Dionysus came to save her in Naxos. So, trying to make her feel better
he put on her head a golden crown of Thetis, a work of Hephaestus.
Nevertheless we have to mention that in the other version of the
Ariadne-myth, she received this crown from Theseus (and not from
Dionysus) as a gift of Amphitrite. After this gift Dionysus
immediately married her. Short while after Ariadne gave birth to many
famous children -- first of all to Staphylos, Thoas and Oinopion. The
last two became the kings of the islands Lemnos and Chios and in some
other versions of the myth they are represented as the sons of
Theseus.

Another totally different version of this myth about Ariadne and
Theseus is known to be originating from Cyprus. According to this
story, the Cretans and the Athenians made an agreement about their
friendship, which was ratified with the union of their crowns -- which
means with the marriage of Ariadne and Theseus. After the long
celebrations in Crete, the married couple sailed to Athens, but a
storm pushed them to the shores of Cyprus. Ariadne was already in a
high stage of pregnancy, so she stayed in Amathus on the island of
Cyprus, but unfortunately she died on this place during her
childbirth. She was buried there in a small grove called in her honour
Aridela. It is also said that Ariadne never married Dionysus, on the
contrary that he was angry with her and with Theseus, because they
desecrated his cave in Naxos. Due to this reason the goddess Artemis
killed Ariadne during her childbirth by her arrows.

The cult of Ariadne consisted of a ceremonial dance, the orgiastic
rites and some lamentations. In the Iliad, Homer mentioned the
Ariadne's dancing place (choros) prepared by the craftsman Daedalus in
the Cnossian Palace. According to the Delian myth the famous Cretan
Crane Dance was performed for the first time on the island of Delos by
rescued youth, who were travelling with Theseus from Crete to Athens.
So, this dance and image of Ariadne played always an important role in
the cult on Delos. Also some vase painters depicted Ariadne in a
context with dancing. There is a supposition that this ceremonial
dance was a part of the collective marriage ritual for marrying
couples. The Ariadne's cult on Naxos was performed also with the
orgiastic rites (like the festivals of joy) together with lamentations
and expressions of sorrow (like during funeral ceremonies). In Amathus
the sacrifices were brought in honour of Ariadne and at this place a
special cult was practised in which a young man was simulating the
pains of a woman giving childbirth with some screaming. Ariadne was
also remembered in the Athenian festival The Oschophoria (celebration
in honour of Theseus) and in the other Athenian festival The
Anthesteria (performed in honour of Dionysus) as the wife of both of
these two protagonists.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy06.html), Actium
(http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_tex
t_plutarch_antony.htm),
Battle of Actium
(http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=16),
Ariadne (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/ariadne.html)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
> pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
> U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>

Salve Marce Flavi Fides

Here in Japan there is almost no time devoted to this in the news. I
saw a nice long program yesterday on the NATIONAL broadcaster (NHK)
about the lunch preferences of the Japanese though. Sorry.

M. Gladius Agricola

Salvete,

in the name of Gallia, I present here all my grief and sympathy to our American citizens.
Prayers will be done. We have not realized the extent of this tragedy until yesterday and
yet we are all afraid that even worse might come.

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

--- Peter Bird <p.bird@...> wrote:

> Salvete, omnes -
>
> We have followed the whole Katrina disaster on TV and I know that many
> people here are numbed by the sheer scale of destruction and the power of
> the elements. Of course our thoughts and prayers go out to all those caught
> up in these frightening events, along with the hope that urgent action will
> be taken to ensure that such a thing can never happen again. Yes, Marce
> Flavi, the US has lost an entire city - and a famous one all over the world
> - but the scale of it did not really penetrate to our TVs here till
> yesterday.
>
> Di vobiscum maneant.
>
> Sextus Pilatus Barbatus.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of raymond fuentes
> Sent: 01 September 2005 22:47
> To: newavewarriors@yahoogroups.com; nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] The price of being America.
>
>
>
> Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
> pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
> U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae

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Avete, cives

Lucius Iulius Lusus omnibus salutem dicit

I have a friend that works with ceramics, tiles and handcraft. She wants images of roman ceramics and information about the ancient roman techniques of ceramics and roman tesselae. She also wants images of roman theatre masks.

If some of you, can send this information, we'll be very grateful.

Valete bene


---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

A couple of weeks ago (I believe) I saw a posting dealing with the need for artwork for Nova Roma coinage. Perhaps I may be able to help. I am proficient in the Corel Draw Illustration software program and although I have not illustrated in quite some time I would be willing to give it a shot.

Vires et Honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
www.northerncrane.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

in what a strange World we're living...
I see the news report on Tv and on the web and any week we have a
tragedy and we cry for friends, parents or fellow-citizens.

Everybody is crying for the situation in New Orleans. I have never
seen an hurricane but I could suppose how it could be tremendous.
I'm hearing about thiefs, alone childrens, homeless family... All my
support goes now to the USA citizens.

But, please, Flavivs Fides, look for other silent tragedies in other
Countries. We're leaving in a world where the tragedies are daily
and we must to cry for all the disasters everywhere.

NR was silent, but I cry for the thousand of iraqi citizens dead 3
days ago close to the mosque in Baghdad. The bridge falled down and
nobody is reminding one more sad tragedy for already poor persons.

And Nr was silent, but I cry for the citizens in Swiss which lost
homes and parents under a new alluvium. I croosed this lands one day
before the alluvium...

Other people are dying in many Nations, in Rwanda, in many afrikan
countries, in Asia, in South America by the hands of other men or by
the natural events.

The men are crazy and the Nature is rebeling. Maybe this is the
moment to change our "modus vivendi" in peace between the men and
respect for the world...

My best wishes to the american citizens, you have my full simpathy.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Consul

Salvete Marce Flavi et omnes ,

I was away the last two days in Calgary.
I guess it took a few days to realize the scope of this catastrophy.
At first the news said there had been flooding and perhaps a few
dozen lives lost but now we know about 80% of the city is flooded
with probably thousands lost. My heart and prayers go out to the
people Of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.

Canada's Red Cross which is coordinated and has various bilateral
agreements with yours is on a big money raising campaign right now.
Our governments are in contact and teams of doctors, nurses,
soldiers, city infrastructure workers are ready to go when your
government gives the word. Your home emergency fellow said great and
hang tight until the chaos is stabilized. Right now local radio
stations are canvessing lots of money in hard cash is needed.

Regards,

QLP

PS: I am sure lots of help is coming from around the world. Your
country has been monumental in helping with disasters around the
world before and that is not forgotten. The only problem is the news
agencies that I also get here have not mentioned anything about
foreign aid and are concentrating and complaining on a lot of other
issues related to this tradgedy.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

> Where is the outpouring of grief encouraging words &
> pledges of support from the rest of the world? The
> U.S. just lost an entire city, NR is relatively silent..
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

I've been asked by a couple of people to clarify the workings of the virtual parts of the Ludi Romani - i.e. the chariot races, and gladiator and animal fights.

In previous years' races, for example, there has been a choice from a limited number of fixed tactics. Results have then been calculated using complex formulae and some random number generation.

This year will be a little different.

Competitors can use any tactics they can think of and describe (legal or otherwise - but if you cheat, you run the risk of being caught), and we will consider in each race the result of that particular combination of intended tactics. Race line-ups will be determined by pulling names out of a hat once I have all the entries (and know how many heats are necessary). There may be random events beyond the control of the competitors - you never can tell.

Similarly for gladiators. The result of the animal fights will depend, I expect, largely on which animals are drawn against one another.

I hope this makes things a bit clearer :)

Livia

P.S. I'm in Finland at the moment, then going to Estonia, so I can't read the main list for a few days - only private messages.





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Salvete Omnes,

Because Nova Roma is an international community and many may not
know much about hurricanes, and because the topic was broached here,
I thought I would share some experiences.

I now live in Memphis, Tennessee USA a little over 300 miles North
of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Here in Memphis, it is estimated we
have received 10,000 to 15,000 refugees from Hurricane Katrina, most
from the New Orleans area of Louisiana. Overnight this Thursday,
the price of gasoline rose 25% and about two thirds of the stations
are closed as people panic over the high prices and horde. That,
thank the Gods, is the extent of our problems locally.

I grew up in Biloxi, Mississippi, one of the communities hardest hit
by the storm. Luckily, again, I no longer have any family there,
only a few high school friends.

36 years ago, in 1969 when I was 14, another powerful hurricane,
Camille, hit Biloxi. Camille was a category 5 storm with winds
exceeding 200 miles per hour - on paper, a substantially more
powerful storm than Katrina.

My family had been through several hurricanes before and decided to
weather the storm in our home as we always had. The house was on
the Biloxi beach about 250 yards/meters from the water.

The storm hit at night and about 10PM, my Dad called me to look out
an un-boarded window to see a novelty: how remarkably high the water
had risen - it was up into our front yard. Ten minutes later, we
were trying to hold the front doors shut as waves pounded into
them. The doors eventually broke off their hinges and water flooded
into the house. We were lucky as that was about the height of the
water's rise. Our house was flooded only about 8 to 12 inches or
so; we retreated to the back of the house, and survived along with
the family daschund and parakeet.

The aftermath was brutal. The retreating waters left 6 inches of
stinking black salt-water mud covering everything in our house.
There was no running water for 2 ½ weeks and no electricity for 6.
Martial law was declared and the Army (National Guard) arrested (or
shot) anyone out after dark. If you have not lived through
something like that, it is hard to imagine.

The main danger from a hurricane is not the winds but the rapidly
rising waters called the storm surge. Katrina, although only a
category 4 storm, covered a much wider area than Camille and moved
much more slowly. The resulting storm surge was estimated at 25 to
29 feet (that is above normal high tide) compared to 22 for Camille.

Yesterday, I found satellite pictures from our National weather
service that showed me that the house that had protected my family
and stood during Camille, had been completely destroyed by Katrina.
There is nothing there now, but some bricks and assorted rubble. If
we had been in that house this time around, we would all surely have
died.

Until this week, I certainly felt that if something in Biloxi had
survived Camille, it would survive anything. I am sure many that
still lived there felt the same way. Camille killed 250+ in and
around Biloxi, Mississippi. I expect the final count from Katrina
to be much more.

Many here in the US are now voicing some of the thoughts I have read
here, "We are the mighty United States of America. We can help
Tsunami victims halfway around the world, but we can't help our own
people?"

I think the simple answer is that the storm was beyond all
expectation. Some are saying it is the worst natural disaster to
hit our Nation since a 1900 hurricane in Galveston, Texas killed
6,000 to 12,000 (they do not know for sure). Just as I am sure
people in Biloxi never expected anything to exceed Camille, the
authorities and people in New Orleans never expected their levees to
break (the source of 90% of that city's problems). After all, they
never had before.

Now that the true impact is sinking in, the response will be swift
and total. My personal thanks for the thoughts and prayers of Nova
Roma's citizens and my prayers to the Gods for anyone affected by
this catastrophe.

Valete,

Gaius Popillius Laenas

But, there is a site where the games are played?????

Valete
C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR·PROVINCIAE·BRASILIAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

----- Original Message -----

To: NR main
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ludi
I've been asked by a couple of people to clarify the workings of the virtual parts of the Ludi Romani - i.e. the chariot races, and gladiator and animal fights.
In previous years' races, for example, there has been a choice from a limited number of fixed tactics. Results have then been calculated using complex formulae and some random number generation.
This year will be a little different.
Competitors can use any tactics they can think of and describe (legal or otherwise - but if you cheat, you run the risk of being caught), and we will consider in each race the result of that particular combination of intended tactics. Race line-ups will be determined by pulling names out of a hat once I have all the entries (and know how many heats are necessary). There may be random events beyond the control of the competitors - you never can tell.
Similarly for gladiators. The result of the animal fights will depend, I expect, largely on which animals are drawn against one another.
I hope this makes things a bit clearer :)
Livia
P.S. I'm in Finland at the moment, then going to Estonia, so I can't read the main list for a few days - only private messages.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Consul Gaius Popillius Laenas!

Thank You for your story, it sure made me think. Once again thank You!

>Salvete Omnes,
>
>Because Nova Roma is an international community and many may not
>know much about hurricanes, and because the topic was broached here,
>I thought I would share some experiences.

..........................
.....................

>Valete,
>
>Gaius Popillius Laenas

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senior Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.

I am forwarding a message sent to the Grex Latine Loquentium, an
all-Latin mailing list, to this board as it is relevant to the present
horror in the U.S. Gulf Coast, which has been the subject of some of the
recent messages here. The writer is the moderator of the Grex Latine; he
lives in Tokyo, Japan, but is European by descent.

Those of you who can read Latin will see that there is a good deal of
sympathy for the horror of this situation--those who can't will at least be
able to make out some of the words as he mentions the absence of the most
basic necessities. Links to the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera (hope
I got that right) and others have been posted on the GLL, and are copied in
the second forwarded message below. Perhaps others now know of the hundreds
and thousands of displaced survivors living alongside the interstate
highways with nothing but the clothes on their backs--no water, no food, no
shelter, nothing.

----------
From: Hermann Gottschewski <TOKYO.AC.JP>
Reply-To: Grex Latine loquentium GREX <GREX@...>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 02:07:10 +0900
To: GREX@...
Subject: Re: [GREX] Urbem a natura vulneratam nunc diripiunt 'hyaenae'.

Agricola Sodalibus s.p.d.

De Novae Aureliae interitu prooemium

Quomodo fit, numeri! verbis, quae balbutimus,
Qui moderati eritis? rerum quid vultis earum,
Quae populos turbant, speciem taetram horribilemque,
Quidque a fluminibus tam perniciosibus usta
Cogere in artificis verborum flumina amoena?
Nonne videtis eos, quibus haec sua cuncta abigebat
Tempestas ­ etiamque suos! ­, non carmine egere
Vel lepido, sed aqua, medicina, pane, receptu?
Cum quod et invictos vos vos rigidosque geratis
Autem iterum atque iterum nobis monstratum habeatis
(Nam neque de bellis atrocibus esse tacendum
Nec de sanguineis ac foedis caedibus olim
Arbitrabantur sibimet vobisque poetae)
Iam non ausus ero vos abstinuisse prementes
Hoc a consilio. qui Musas credere nolo
Ipsos, o numeri, mihi vos assitis adoro!

Valete!

On 02.09.2005, at 16:57, Victorius Ciarrocchi wrote:

> Victorius omnibus legentibus s.p.d.
>
> Titulum e variis de urbe 'Nova Aurelia' deprompsi nuntiis, quos hodie
> vulgarunt primis in paginis acta diurna haec:
>
> 1) www.ilmessaggero.it
>
> 2) www.repubblica.it
>
> 3) www.ilrestodelcarlino.it
>
> 4) www.corriere.it
>
> <Punctum, finis epistulae>, ut brevitatis amantibus ego quoque morem
> interdum geram!
>
> Valete.

> ********************************************************
> Vivitur ingenio, cetera mortis erunt (Andreas Vesalius).
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Victorius Ciarrocchi, Italus Pisaurensis.
> ********************************************************
>
Valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

Everyone;

It may be a month or longer before I post again to the Yahoo fan
fiction groups, RPGs, and Pagan groups. I am on my way in a few days
to the great South of the United States to help with the hurricane
disaster as a Red Cross volunteer. Wish me luck and say prayers for
those affected by this disaster. I will be gone for probably two
weeks and won't be taking my computer with me. We can't donate money,
we are beyond strapped right now due to the workman comp checks being
screwed up for my mother, whom I take care of. So, we're donating me.

Thoughts and prayers for the stress and finances to ease up would be
appreciated.

Blessings
Frau Hunter
Drusilla Ulleria Germanica

Perhaps well meet. My Police Dept. is sending a
contigent of police officers to help restore order. I
will be one of those officers, Mars & Isis be w/ me.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <hunterash@...>
wrote:

> Everyone;
>
> It may be a month or longer before I post again to

the Yahoo fan

> fiction groups, RPGs, and Pagan groups. I am on my

way in a few days

> to the great South of the United States to help with

the hurricane

> disaster as a Red Cross volunteer. Wish me luck and

say prayers for

> those affected by this disaster. I will be gone for

probably two

> weeks and won't be taking my computer with me. We

can't donate money,

> we are beyond strapped right now due to the workman

comp checks being

> screwed up for my mother, whom I take care of. So,

we're donating me.

>
> Thoughts and prayers for the stress and finances to

ease up would be

> appreciated.
>
> Blessings
> Frau Hunter
> Drusilla Ulleria Germanica
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

--- praefectus2324@...
<praefectus2324@...> wrote:

> I leave soon for New Orleans as part of a NY
> Army/Police Task Force to restore order and assist

our

> brothers in the New Orleans Police. Sua Sponte! USA

first!

>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

protection around

> http://mail.yahoo.com

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Today is ante diem III Nonas Septembris; the day is Comitialis.

"Malum quidem nullum esse sine aliquo bono." (There is no evil without
something good) - Pliny the Elder, Natural History

"This year will be noteworthy for the first consulship held by a
plebeian, and also for two new magistracies, the praetorship and the
curule aedileship. These offices the patricians created in their own
interest as an equivalent for their concession of one consulship to
the plebs, who bestowed it on L. Sextius, the man who had secured it
for them. The patricians secured the praetorship for Sp. Furius, the
son of old Camillus, and the two aedileships for Gnaeus Quinctius
Capitolinus and P. Cornelius Scipio, members of their own order. L.
Aemilius Mamercus was elected from the patricians as colleague to L.
Sextius. The main themes of discussion at the beginning of the year
were the Gauls, about whom it was rumoured that after wandering by
various routes through Apulia they had reunited their forces and the
Hernici, who were reported to have revolted. All preparations were
deferred with the sole purpose of preventing any action from being
taken by the plebeian consul; everything was quiet and silent in the
City, as though a suspension of all business had been proclaimed, with
the one exception of the tribunes of the plebs. They did not silently
submit to the procedure of the nobility in appropriating to themselves
three patrician magistrates, sitting in curule chairs and clothed in
the praetexta like consuls, as a set-off against one plebeian consul -
the praetor even administering justice, as though he were a colleague
of the consuls and elected under the same auspices. The senate felt
somewhat ashamed of their resolution by which they had limited the
curule aediles to their own order; it had been agreed that they should
be elected in alternate years from the plebs; afterwards it was left
open.

The consuls for the following year were L. Genucius and Q. Servilius.
Matters were quiet as regarded domestic troubles or foreign wars, but,
lest there should be too great a feeling of security, a pestilence
broke out. It is asserted that one of the censors, one of the curule
aediles, and three tribunes of the plebs fell victims, and in the
population generally there was a corresponding proportion of deaths.
The most illustrious victim was M. F. Camillus, whose death, though
occurring in ripe old age, was bitterly lamented. He was, it may be
truly said, an exceptional man in every change of fortune; before he
went into exile foremost in peace and war, rendered still more
illustrious when actually in exile by the regret which the State felt
for his loss, and the eagerness with which after its capture it
implored his assistance, and quite as much so by the success with
which, after being restored to his country, he restored his country's
fortunes together with his own. For five-and-twenty years after this
he lived fully up to his reputation, and was counted worthy to be
named next to Romulus, as the second founder of the City." - Livy,
History of Rome 7.1


On this day in A.D. 301, San Marino, one of the smallest countries in
the world, was created by a skilled worker known as St. Marinus.
Tradition is that he was a blacksmith by trade who came from the
island of Rab on the other side of the Adriatic. Although a sovereign
nation, it is strongly dependent on Italy, by which it has been
completely surrounded since that country's unification in the 19th
century. Giuseppe Garibaldi was unifying Italy in the 1860's and took
refuge from his enemies in San Marino. There he acquired aid and money
and supplies to continue his campaign for unification from San Marino
citizens and leaders. In return, Garibaldi guaranteed that San Marino
would always be an independent sovereign nation. San Marino is an
enclave in Italy, on the border between the regions of Emilia-Romagna
and Marche. Its topography is dominated by the Apennines mountain
range, and it has a rugged terrain. The highest point in the country,
Monte Titano, is situated at 749m above sea level. There are no bodies
of water of any significant size. The Consiglio Grande e Generale, or
Grand and General Council, is elected by popular vote every five
years. This parliament selects two of its members to serve as Regents
for periods of six months. These regents are known as the Capitani
Reggenti, or Ruling Captains. The Capitani Reggenti and the cabinet
form the executive branch of the government. The Council also elects
the Consiglio dei XII (Council of Twelve), which forms the judicial
branch during the period of legislature of the Council.


This day, 3 September A.D. 1666, saw the almost complete destruction
of the City of London in what is known as the "Great Fire". The Great
Fire of London began on the night of September 2, 1666, as a small
fire on Pudding Lane, in the bakeshop of Thomas Farynor, baker to King
Charles II. At one o'clock in the morning, a servant woke to find the
house aflame, and the baker and his family escaped, but a fear-struck
maid perished in the blaze. At this time, most London houses were of
wood and pitch construction, dangerously flammable, and it did not
take long for the fire to expand. The fire leapt to the hay and feed
piles on the yard of the Star Inn at Fish Street Hill, and spread to
the Inn. The strong wind that blew that night sent sparks that next
ignited the Church of St. Margaret, and then spread to Thames Street,
with its riverside warehouses and wharves filled with food for the
flames: hemp, oil, tallow, hay, timber, coal and spirits along with
other combustibles. The citizen firefighting brigades had little
success in containing the fire with their buckets of water from the
river. By eight o'clock in the morning, the fire had spread halfway
across London Bridge. The only thing that stopped the fire from
spreading to Southwark, on the other side of the river, was the gap
that had been caused by the fire of 1633.

The standard procedure to stop a fire from spreading had always been
to destroy the houses on the path of the flames, creating
"fire-breaks", to deprive a fire from fuel. Lord Mayor Bludworth,
however, was hesitant, worrying about the cost of rebuilding. By the
time a Royal command came down, carried by Samuel Pepys, the fire was
too out of control to stop. The Trained Bands of London were called in
to demolish houses by gunpowder, but often the rubble was too much to
be cleared before the fire was at hand, and only eased the fire's way
onward. The fire blazed unchecked for another three days, until it
halted near Temple Church. Then, it suddenly sprang to life again,
continuing towards Westminster. The Duke of York had the presence of
mind to order the Paper House demolished to create a fire break, and
the fire finally died down.

Although the loss of life was minimal, some sources say only sixteen
perished, the magnitude of the property loss was staggering. Some 430
acres, as much as 80% of the city proper was destroyed, including
13,000 houses, 89 churches, and 52 Guild Halls. Thousands of citizens
found themselves homeless and financially ruined. The Great Fire, and
the fire of 1676, which destroyed over 600 houses south of the river,
changed the face of London forever. The one positive effect of the
Great Fire was that the plague, which had ravished London since 1665,
diminished greatly, due to the mass death of the plague-carrying rats
in the blaze. King Charles II appointed six Commissioners to redesign
the city. The plan provided for wider streets and buildings of brick,
rather than timber. By 1671, 9000 houses and public buildings had been
completed. Sir Christopher Wren was commissioned to design and oversee
the construction of nearly 50 churches, not least of them a new St.
Paul's Cathedral, construction of which began in 1675. The King also
had Wren design a monument to the Great Fire, which stands still today
at the site of the bakery which started it all, on a street now named
Monument Street.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy07.html), San Marino
from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page), Great Fire of
London (http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/greatfire.htm)

Salve, Artore;

There are indeed practitioners within Nova Roma in California (and in
the surrounding area). Actually, one of our pontifices, Maximus, lives
in that area.

Vale,
Kaelus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Coleman" <stardragon1@m...>
wrote:

> Ave C. Fabius Buteo Modianus, and thank you for letting me know my
> application has been recieved and about when to hear something.
> Hopefully something good too.
>
> What may I ask though, would be required for the Religio Romana to
> incorporate as a religious organization? How much support would it
> need, etc? I'm fairly well knowledged in what it takes at the state
> level, but what about national level? Or even internationally?
>
> Marcus Artorius
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, AthanasiosofSpfd@a... wrote:
> >
> > C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Artorio salutem dicit
> >
> > I have seen your application to become a Sacerdos and have
> forwarded to the
> > Collegium Pontificum list. We are currently convened, and are
> voting on
> > several issues. Hopefully we can address your application by the
> end of
> > September.
> >
> > Currently Nova Roma is incorporated as a "Cultural" society (or
> something of
> > the sort). I would like to see Nova Roma (via the Collegium
> Pontificum)
> > also incorporate as a religious organization for the advancement
> of the Religio
> > Romana, but there needs to be more support for such an endeavor.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
> > Pontifex
> >
> > In a message dated 9/1/2005 4:18:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > stardragon1@m... writes:
> >
> > Ave Cato,
> >
> > Well, I have already applied to become a Sacerdos of one of the
> > foreign cults (Isis and Serapis), so now I have to wait the
> required
> > 4-6 weeks before I can bug them about my application.
> >
> > If I could find the people in California, I do plan on attempting
> > the legal church route. After years of trying to find dedicated
> > practicioners or locations of fellowship (in the pagan community
> at
> > least), and becoming quite frustrated at finding neither, I would
> > like to try and do something about it.
> >
> > We'll see how it goes...
> >
> > As for California, well, we almost moved to New York or
> Mass...but
> > my wife had family in California, and grew up here (in Santa
> > Barbara), so we moved to California.
> >
> > Marcus Artorius
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Modius Kaelus"
<xkaelusx@y...> wrote:

> Salve et salvete,
>
> Actually it's in the tens of thousands. Possibly much, much more?

Correction and clarification. I meant that many of the estimates are
now over 10,000. As one reporter on FOX said, 5,000 may now be a
-very- conservative estimate as each hour passes.

-Kaelus.

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
The Pontifex Maximus, Marcus Cassius Julianus, has authorized me to post
the voting results of the Collegium Pontificum. In a spirit of openess and
transparency the individual votes are recorded below along with comments in
the same spirit that the Senate results are posted.
Valete:
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
Pontifex
-----
*QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO QUIRITIBVS*

The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to vote on four priesthood
applications and the removal of the Nefas status against M. Hortensia Maior,
the decision was that Octavianus Titinia shall serve our Republic as
Sacerdos to Kleio, the Nefas status against M. Hortensia Maior (formerly
known as Spuria Fabia Vera Fausta) has been removed, and Quintus Caecilius
Metellus Postumianus has been co-opted as a Pontifex. The priesthood
applications of T. Iulius Sabinus, and Marcus Ambrosius Falco have been
rejected.**

* *

Collegium Pontificum Voting Results August 2005

* *

Pontifices

*[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus*

*[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus*

*[AGG] Antonius Gryllus Graecus*

*[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus*

*[GIS] Gaius Iulius Scaurus*

*[LSD] Lucius Sicinius Drusus*

*[GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus*

*[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur***

* *

* *

*ITEM I** *Octavianus Titinia Application for Sacerdos to Kleio *APPROVED*
UTI ROGAS: 5 ANTIQUO: 2 ABSTINEO: 0

*[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**

*[LECA] *UTI ROGAS: this is the kind of application that we should have
approved already.**

*[AGG] *ANTIQVO: Kleio is a Greek deity, not roman, so it is out of our
business.**

*[QFM] *ANTIQVO: Kleio is a Hellenic, not Roman, and I do not no know of a
cross linked deity.* *

[GIS] UTI ROGAS.

*[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
[GFBM] VTI ROGAS: I know nothing of this individual, and I'm not even sure
if he is still interested in the priesthood. We should really make an effort
to get applications like this voted on more quickly than we have been.
[GSA] VTI ROGAS: I don't really know too much about this gentleman, but he
seems to be prepared to be placed in the service of the Muses.


*ITEM II** *Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Application for Pontifex
Assidui *APPROVED*

UTI ROGAS: 4 ANTIQUO: 2 ABSTINEO: 1

*[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**

*[LECA] *ANTIQUO: he just had a vote a few months ago. He's still too young
to be a Pontifex. A Pontifex ought to be a Senator, and I mean that in the
traditional sense as well as in our present condition as a Nova Romans.**

*[AGG] *VTI ROGAS.**

*[QFM] *VTI ROGAS Yes he is young. But Gods he is dedicated. We need
dedication like this.
And he will learn even more as part of us, and perhaps spur us to do more.

[GIS] ANTIQUO. While I deeply respect Postumianus, I am uncomfortable with
adlection prior to the age of 25.

*[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
[GFBM] VTI ROGAS: Metellus is young, but he has been an active citizen for
three years and has been involved since he joined Nova Roma. He should be
the exception to the rule. I have met with him on several occasions and I
feel he would bring youth and activity to the Collegium Pontificum --
something we need.

[GSA] ABSTINEO: I have discussed his candidacy with him, but I am not sure
yet whether he knows why he wants to be a pontifex and what does he want to
accomplish as pontifex.

*ITEM III* T. Iulius Sabinus Application for Quindecimvir Sacris Faciundis *
REJECTED*
UTI ROGAS: 1 ANTIQUO: 4 ABSTINEO: 2

*[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**

*[LECA] *ANTIQUO: insufficient application information and not enough time
as a citizen for my tastes.**

*[AGG] *ANTIQVO. Not enough information and proof of past dedication to the
matter at hand.**

*[QFM] *ANTIQVO. I would need more information about this candidate.* *

[GIS] ANTIQUO. A Quindecimvir should have a good reading knowledge of Latin
and Greek and I see no indication of such language skills in the
application.

*[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
[GFBM] ABSTINEO: This priesthood is too important, in my opinion, to be
given to a person who is fairly new to Nova Roma. He should apply for
something else first.

[GSA] ABSTINEO: I met T. Julius personally in Rome, and I think that he is
an excellent citizen, and that he will be an excellent priest. But being a
quindecimvir sacris faciundis entails dealing with the Libri Sybillini. In
particular, the people appointed to that position will have to *reconstruct*
the Libri Sybillini from the little information we have. If there is a
position in which we need a very learned scholar, this is it, and I have the
impression that T. Julius does not have the necessary level of scholarship. I
will most happily support his future candidacies to other priestly positions
that do not require such special abilities.


*ITEM IV** *Marcus Ambrosius Falco Application for Augur *REJECTED*
UTI ROGAS: 0 ANTIQUO: 7 ABSTINEO: 0

*[MCJ] *ANTIQUO.**

*[LECA] *ANTIQUO: I don't know him. Also, he hasn't been a citizen long
enough to be considered for such an important position. Neither has he
demonstrated a record of service to the Res Publica. I guess people don't
get it, religious positions and "civil service" positions are not mutually
exclusive. Additionally, his application was more along the lines of what he
wants, rather than what he knows.**

*[AGG] *ANTIQVO. Still not enough time and dedication in NR.**

*[QFM] *ANTIQVO. Not convinced dedication to NR Religio based on his
statements.

[GIS] ANTIQUO. I think that we need to develop specific standards of prior
knowledge which candidates must meet. Augurship is probably the most
demanding in terms of detailed, technical knowledge and not
appropriate for OJT.

*[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
[GFBM] ANTIQVO: I have had no contact with this man, and feel that Augur is
too important to be given out without knowing the person first.

[GSA] ANTIQVO: This citizen's application hasn't convinced me that he is the
kind of person we need in the Collegium Augurum.


*ITEM V** *Removal of Nefas status from M. Hortensia Maior *APPROVED*
UTI ROGAS: 4 ANTIQUO: 3 ABSTINEO: 0
The Collegium Pontificum of Nova Roma rescinds the status of Nefas from M.
Hortensia Maior. This revocation of Nefas does not constitute approval or
condonement of past actions by Hortensia Maior, nor does it restore her to
any formal priesthood in Nova Roma.

*[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS: And on this one I'll comment: Although I don't trust
Piscinus as a person, I've always trusted his scholarship. His recent post
pointed out that declaring M. Hortensia Maior "Nefas" was completely
unhistorical, and also makes Nova Roma itself Nefas if her status is
continued. That overall contamination issue makes this revocation
imperative. Piscinus simply thought out the matter more thoroughly than
Scarus did in his original anger. I believe that it is time for Scarus to be
a true scholar and admit a scholarly error here. I'm not adverse to the
Collegium leveling a completely new and more correct charge against M.
Hortensia Maior in its place, but leaving ALL OF NOVA ROMA contaminated and
technically also "Nefas" is extremely dangerous. Scarus et al; if you hate
Hortensia that much, get with Piscenus and come up with a more historical
charge or set of charges that metes equally grevious punishment. Don't leave
all of Nova Roma in contaminated status over one person through an
unhistorical vote that obviously endangers us all.**

*[LECA] *ANTIQVO.**

*[AGG] *VTI ROGAS. I greatly respect the opinions and intentions of those
who are against, but personally I do not agree with this. I think it is too
much and can bring more problems than benefits.**

*[QFM] *ANTIQVO. I realize now that the college has made up their mind, and
have caved to political pressure. This is major mistake, and will aid in the
continuing desecration of the RR. Mark my words� You cannot function as an
educational/religious body, when the non religious people tell you what you
can and cannot do.

[GIS] ANTIQUO.

*[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
[GFBM] VTI ROGAS: The long term affects of this Nefas status upon Nova Roma
is too severe for this status to be maintained. I believe it is time for the
Collegium Pontificum to have the necessary humility to simply LET IT GO.

[GSA] VTI ROGAS: I am convinced that that declaration was a huge mistake,
since very few people were considered nefas in Antiquity, and only those who
had commited the most nefarious crimes. M. Hortensia's behaviour might not
have been commendable, but this punishment is disproportionate.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Patre, et salvete omnibus.

I hope to see more reports from the Collegium like this. This was
outstanding, Modianus.

Also, congradulations to Octavianus on his appointment to the
priesthood, and even warmer congradulations to my friend Metellus on
his co-option. I can honestly say no one deserves it more than he, and
I'm sure he'll do wonderful things through this position.

I am also personally glad to see this slight against Hortensia
corrected, and I definately commend the wisdom of the CP in this
decision. I wasn't sure it would ever happen, but the pontifices
showed character in while admitting the offenses were not minor, the
punishment most definately did not fit the crime.

Valete bene,
Kaelus


(Also, Marinus, if you're out there, do you have any idea what
happened to my other post? It doesn't seem to be showing up now)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@g...> wrote:
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
> The Pontifex Maximus, Marcus Cassius Julianus, has authorized me to
post
> the voting results of the Collegium Pontificum. In a spirit of
openess and
> transparency the individual votes are recorded below along with
comments in
> the same spirit that the Senate results are posted.
> Valete:
> C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Pontifex
> -----
> *QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO QUIRITIBVS*
>
> The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to vote on four
priesthood
> applications and the removal of the Nefas status against M.
Hortensia Maior,
> the decision was that Octavianus Titinia shall serve our Republic as
> Sacerdos to Kleio, the Nefas status against M. Hortensia Maior
(formerly
> known as Spuria Fabia Vera Fausta) has been removed, and Quintus
Caecilius
> Metellus Postumianus has been co-opted as a Pontifex. The priesthood
> applications of T. Iulius Sabinus, and Marcus Ambrosius Falco have been
> rejected.**
>
> * *
>
> Collegium Pontificum Voting Results August 2005
>
> * *
>
> Pontifices
>
> *[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus*
>
> *[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus*
>
> *[AGG] Antonius Gryllus Graecus*
>
> *[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus*
>
> *[GIS] Gaius Iulius Scaurus*
>
> *[LSD] Lucius Sicinius Drusus*
>
> *[GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus*
>
> *[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur***
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ITEM I** *Octavianus Titinia Application for Sacerdos to Kleio
*APPROVED*
> UTI ROGAS: 5 ANTIQUO: 2 ABSTINEO: 0
>
> *[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**
>
> *[LECA] *UTI ROGAS: this is the kind of application that we should have
> approved already.**
>
> *[AGG] *ANTIQVO: Kleio is a Greek deity, not roman, so it is out of our
> business.**
>
> *[QFM] *ANTIQVO: Kleio is a Hellenic, not Roman, and I do not no
know of a
> cross linked deity.* *
>
> [GIS] UTI ROGAS.
>
> *[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
> [GFBM] VTI ROGAS: I know nothing of this individual, and I'm not
even sure
> if he is still interested in the priesthood. We should really make
an effort
> to get applications like this voted on more quickly than we have been.
> [GSA] VTI ROGAS: I don't really know too much about this gentleman,
but he
> seems to be prepared to be placed in the service of the Muses.
>
>
> *ITEM II** *Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Application for
Pontifex
> Assidui *APPROVED*
>
> UTI ROGAS: 4 ANTIQUO: 2 ABSTINEO: 1
>
> *[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**
>
> *[LECA] *ANTIQUO: he just had a vote a few months ago. He's still
too young
> to be a Pontifex. A Pontifex ought to be a Senator, and I mean that
in the
> traditional sense as well as in our present condition as a Nova
Romans.**
>
> *[AGG] *VTI ROGAS.**
>
> *[QFM] *VTI ROGAS Yes he is young. But Gods he is dedicated. We need
> dedication like this.
> And he will learn even more as part of us, and perhaps spur us to do
more.
>
> [GIS] ANTIQUO. While I deeply respect Postumianus, I am
uncomfortable with
> adlection prior to the age of 25.
>
> *[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
> [GFBM] VTI ROGAS: Metellus is young, but he has been an active
citizen for
> three years and has been involved since he joined Nova Roma. He
should be
> the exception to the rule. I have met with him on several occasions
and I
> feel he would bring youth and activity to the Collegium Pontificum --
> something we need.
>
> [GSA] ABSTINEO: I have discussed his candidacy with him, but I am
not sure
> yet whether he knows why he wants to be a pontifex and what does he
want to
> accomplish as pontifex.
>
> *ITEM III* T. Iulius Sabinus Application for Quindecimvir Sacris
Faciundis *
> REJECTED*
> UTI ROGAS: 1 ANTIQUO: 4 ABSTINEO: 2
>
> *[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS.**
>
> *[LECA] *ANTIQUO: insufficient application information and not
enough time
> as a citizen for my tastes.**
>
> *[AGG] *ANTIQVO. Not enough information and proof of past dedication
to the
> matter at hand.**
>
> *[QFM] *ANTIQVO. I would need more information about this candidate.* *
>
> [GIS] ANTIQUO. A Quindecimvir should have a good reading knowledge
of Latin
> and Greek and I see no indication of such language skills in the
> application.
>
> *[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
> [GFBM] ABSTINEO: This priesthood is too important, in my opinion, to be
> given to a person who is fairly new to Nova Roma. He should apply for
> something else first.
>
> [GSA] ABSTINEO: I met T. Julius personally in Rome, and I think that
he is
> an excellent citizen, and that he will be an excellent priest. But
being a
> quindecimvir sacris faciundis entails dealing with the Libri
Sybillini. In
> particular, the people appointed to that position will have to
*reconstruct*
> the Libri Sybillini from the little information we have. If there is a
> position in which we need a very learned scholar, this is it, and I
have the
> impression that T. Julius does not have the necessary level of
scholarship. I
> will most happily support his future candidacies to other priestly
positions
> that do not require such special abilities.
>
>
> *ITEM IV** *Marcus Ambrosius Falco Application for Augur *REJECTED*
> UTI ROGAS: 0 ANTIQUO: 7 ABSTINEO: 0
>
> *[MCJ] *ANTIQUO.**
>
> *[LECA] *ANTIQUO: I don't know him. Also, he hasn't been a citizen long
> enough to be considered for such an important position. Neither has he
> demonstrated a record of service to the Res Publica. I guess people
don't
> get it, religious positions and "civil service" positions are not
mutually
> exclusive. Additionally, his application was more along the lines of
what he
> wants, rather than what he knows.**
>
> *[AGG] *ANTIQVO. Still not enough time and dedication in NR.**
>
> *[QFM] *ANTIQVO. Not convinced dedication to NR Religio based on his
> statements.
>
> [GIS] ANTIQUO. I think that we need to develop specific standards of
prior
> knowledge which candidates must meet. Augurship is probably the most
> demanding in terms of detailed, technical knowledge and not
> appropriate for OJT.
>
> *[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
> [GFBM] ANTIQVO: I have had no contact with this man, and feel that
Augur is
> too important to be given out without knowing the person first.
>
> [GSA] ANTIQVO: This citizen's application hasn't convinced me that
he is the
> kind of person we need in the Collegium Augurum.
>
>
> *ITEM V** *Removal of Nefas status from M. Hortensia Maior *APPROVED*
> UTI ROGAS: 4 ANTIQUO: 3 ABSTINEO: 0
> The Collegium Pontificum of Nova Roma rescinds the status of Nefas
from M.
> Hortensia Maior. This revocation of Nefas does not constitute
approval or
> condonement of past actions by Hortensia Maior, nor does it restore
her to
> any formal priesthood in Nova Roma.
>
> *[MCJ] *UTI ROGAS: And on this one I'll comment: Although I don't trust
> Piscinus as a person, I've always trusted his scholarship. His
recent post
> pointed out that declaring M. Hortensia Maior "Nefas" was completely
> unhistorical, and also makes Nova Roma itself Nefas if her status is
> continued. That overall contamination issue makes this revocation
> imperative. Piscinus simply thought out the matter more thoroughly than
> Scarus did in his original anger. I believe that it is time for
Scarus to be
> a true scholar and admit a scholarly error here. I'm not adverse to the
> Collegium leveling a completely new and more correct charge against M.
> Hortensia Maior in its place, but leaving ALL OF NOVA ROMA
contaminated and
> technically also "Nefas" is extremely dangerous. Scarus et al; if
you hate
> Hortensia that much, get with Piscenus and come up with a more
historical
> charge or set of charges that metes equally grevious punishment.
Don't leave
> all of Nova Roma in contaminated status over one person through an
> unhistorical vote that obviously endangers us all.**
>
> *[LECA] *ANTIQVO.**
>
> *[AGG] *VTI ROGAS. I greatly respect the opinions and intentions of
those
> who are against, but personally I do not agree with this. I think it
is too
> much and can bring more problems than benefits.**
>
> *[QFM] *ANTIQVO. I realize now that the college has made up their
mind, and
> have caved to political pressure. This is major mistake, and will
aid in the
> continuing desecration of the RR. Mark my wordsÂ… You cannot function
as an
> educational/religious body, when the non religious people tell you
what you
> can and cannot do.
>
> [GIS] ANTIQUO.
>
> *[LSD] DID NOT VOTE*
> [GFBM] VTI ROGAS: The long term affects of this Nefas status upon
Nova Roma
> is too severe for this status to be maintained. I believe it is time
for the
> Collegium Pontificum to have the necessary humility to simply LET IT
GO.
>
> [GSA] VTI ROGAS: I am convinced that that declaration was a huge
mistake,
> since very few people were considered nefas in Antiquity, and only
those who
> had commited the most nefarious crimes. M. Hortensia's behaviour
might not
> have been commendable, but this punishment is disproportionate.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,
This is a quit note to let everyone know that I made it out of New
Orleans before the Hurricane hit. I am now in Arkansas where I have
family and am being accepted in transfer to the university here so I
can continue school. For those who know me and were concerned I
apologize for not being able to get in touch until now, I just got here
from Laurel, Mississippi where our car broke down in fleeing the
Hurricane, and have been without power for the last several days.
I think my greatest possession loss was that of my altars, particular
the altar to Diana which was the most developed. All I was able to
smuggle into my pack was a small statue of her. Altars that took years
to develope are gone. But I am grateful that I got out safe with my
daughter. I shall rebuild and continue my service to the gods.

Valete,
Lucia Modia Lupa
sacerdos Diana
Vestal

C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Luciae Modiae Lupae salutem dicit
I am very pleased to know you are doing well. Very sorry to hear about your
altar, but material possessions can be replaced -- you cannot! :)
Vale;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 9/3/05, Samantha <lucia_modia_lupa@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
> This is a quit note to let everyone know that I made it out of New
> Orleans before the Hurricane hit. I am now in Arkansas where I have
> family and am being accepted in transfer to the university here so I
> can continue school. For those who know me and were concerned I
> apologize for not being able to get in touch until now, I just got here
> from Laurel, Mississippi where our car broke down in fleeing the
> Hurricane, and have been without power for the last several days.
> I think my greatest possession loss was that of my altars, particular
> the altar to Diana which was the most developed. All I was able to
> smuggle into my pack was a small statue of her. Altars that took years
> to develope are gone. But I am grateful that I got out safe with my
> daughter. I shall rebuild and continue my service to the gods.
>
> Valete,
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> sacerdos Diana
> Vestal
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Metellus Quiritibus sal.

For the month of September:

Kalendis Septembribus : 01 Sep 2005 : F
a.d. IV Non. Sep. : 02 Sep 2005 : F (Ater)
a.d. III Non. Sep. : 03 Sep 2005 : C
pr. Non. Sep. : 04 Sep 2005 : C
Nonis Septembribus : 05 Sep 2005 : F (Nun.)*
a.d. VIII Id. Sep. : 06 Sep 2005 : F (Ater)
a.d. VII Id. Sep. : 07 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. VI Id. Sep. : 08 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. V Id. Sep. : 09 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. IV Id. Sep. : 10 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. III Id. Sep. : 11 Sep 2005 : C
pr. Id. Sep. : 12 Sep 2005 : N
Idibus Septembribus : 13 Sep 2005 : NP (Nun.)
a.d. XVIII Kal. Oct. : 14 Sep 2005 : F (Ater)
a.d. XVII Kal. Oct. : 15 Sep 2005 : N
a.d. XVI Kal. Oct. : 16 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. XV Kal. Oct. : 17 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. XIV Kal. Oct. : 18 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. XIII Kal. Oct. : 19 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. XII Kal. Oct. : 20 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. XI Kal. Oct. : 21 Sep 2005 : C (Nun.)
a.d. X Kal. Oct. : 22 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. IX Kal. Oct. : 23 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. VIII Kal. Oct. : 24 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. VII Kal. Oct. : 25 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. VI Kal. Oct. : 26 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. V Kal. Oct. : 27 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. IV Kal. Oct. : 28 Sep 2005 : C
a.d. III Kal. Oct. : 29 Sep 2005 : C (Nun.)
pr. Kal. Oct. : 30 Sep 2005 : C

* Nun. = Nundinae

Valete Bene!

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius
Fetialis