Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Nov 5-8, 2005

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38816 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-05
Subject: Re: Fears for safety in Romes forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38817 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-05
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38818 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38819 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Imperial Eagles
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38820 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38821 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38822 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Paris (was Pilate)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38823 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Corvinian Sovreignty
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38824 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38825 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38826 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: post. Id. Nov.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38827 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38828 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38829 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38830 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38831 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38832 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38833 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38834 From: David Santo Orcero Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: presentation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38835 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Roman message information?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38836 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: presentation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38837 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38838 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38839 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Flags
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38840 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38841 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38842 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: My appologies to the Republic.Frustration had the better of me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38843 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38844 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38845 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38846 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: My appologies to the Republic.Frustration had the better of me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38847 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38848 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38849 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38850 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38851 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38852 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38853 From: lucius_fidelius Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38854 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38855 From: walkyr@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38856 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38857 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38858 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: presentation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38859 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38860 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38861 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38862 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38863 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38864 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38865 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38866 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38867 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38868 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38869 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38870 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38871 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38872 From: Stefanie Beer Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38873 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38874 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38875 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Corvinian Sovreignty
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38876 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38877 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Pictures in the Album Civium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38878 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pictures in the Album Civium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38879 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38880 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pictures in the Album Civium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38881 From: paolocristiano1966 Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38882 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38883 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38884 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38885 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38886 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38887 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: SPQ Risiko, lo sapevate?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38888 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38889 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: a little art project
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38890 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38891 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38892 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38893 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: a.d VII Id. Nov.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38894 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38895 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38896 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Situation in Gallia - France
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38897 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38898 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38899 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38900 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38901 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38902 From: SVM STOICUS Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: test
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38903 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38904 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38905 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38906 From: CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Mari Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Respect and consideration
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38907 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38908 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38909 From: annia@ciarin.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38910 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38911 From: Lucius Servilius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Animals ??
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38912 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Animals ??
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38913 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Animals ??
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38914 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38915 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38916 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38917 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38918 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38919 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38920 From: Aulus Bianchius Pius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38921 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38922 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38923 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Correction: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38924 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Correction: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38925 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38926 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38927 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38928 From: Lucius Servilius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38929 From: Maior Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38930 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38931 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38932 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38933 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38934 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38935 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38936 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38937 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38938 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38939 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38940 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38941 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38942 From: G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Standard Gauge RRail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38943 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38944 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38945 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38946 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38947 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38948 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Situation in Gallia- attn T Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38949 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38950 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38951 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38952 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia- attn T Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38953 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38954 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38955 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Back from absence
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38956 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Putting NR on the Street (Was Mos Maiorum)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38957 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38958 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38959 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38960 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Nov.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38961 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38962 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38963 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38964 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38965 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38966 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: How Empires End
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38967 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: The truth throughout history is that the expansion of Islam has not
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38968 From: CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Mari Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Animals ??
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38969 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38970 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38971 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The truth throughout history is that the expansion of Islam has
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38972 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38973 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38974 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38975 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Fwd: [dontchangeyourself] What are the French riots about?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38976 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38977 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: LUDI PLEBEII opened!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38978 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38979 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: LUDI PLEBEII: chariot races
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38980 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38981 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38982 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38983 From: Maior Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Venationes: Gladiators! Subscribe for the Ludi Plebeii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38984 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38985 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38986 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38987 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38988 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Web site
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38989 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Web site
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38990 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38991 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38816 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-05
Subject: Re: Fears for safety in Romes forum
Thank you for your words.My Sentiments exactly.Our
passion for Romanitas is apparent,what of our passion
for one anotheror to make this a reality?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <wm_hogue@...>
wrote:
> M. Lucretius Agricola Marco Flavio Fidei S.P.D.
>
> I don't always agree with you, Sir, but you would
always find a
> welcome in my home and I hope some day I will be
able to raise a toast
> with you.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I would donate to that but we have to make sure
the
> > Senate is notified to be certain its not crack-pot
& a
> > law does not have to be ratified in regards. Vale.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <walkyr@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/5/2005 7:18:34 PM Pacific
> > Standard Time,
> > > praefectus2324@y... writes:
> > >
> > > An omen of an impending fall, perhaps?
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <hoplomachus@p...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Salve,
> > > >
> > > > The following was posted in the Rome HBO
> > Yahoogroup
> > > list:
> > > >
> > > > Fears for safety in Rome's forum
> > > > Sunday Nov 6 06:17 AEST
> > > >
> > > > A stretch of wall in Rome's ancient forum has
> > > collapsed, raising
> > > > fears that much of the popular tourist site
is
> > > potentially dangerous
> > > > for visitors.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or perhaps an opportunity for a fundraiser from
NR?
> > >
> > >
> > > "Faber est suae quisque fortunae."
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38817 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-05
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salve,

I agree. It is rude petty and unbecoming to use the word "crackpot" in
relation to the honest efforts of citizens. Thank you for bringing
this to my attention. That word should never have been used. I
apologize for using it here.

Optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <annia@c...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Calling it crackpot is a bit rude and petty, don't you think?
>
> Quite unbecoming.
>
> Vale,
> Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:46 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins
>
>
> >I have decided that you are right. I've withdrawn from this crackpot
> > project. Sorry to have bothered you. Now I'll return to grading
papers.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 11/5/2005 3:03:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> wm_hogue@y... writes:
> >> since it has been
> >> mentioned here on many occasions since it was started, and since it
> >> was discussed fully at the Conventus I am somewhat surprised at some
> >> of the recent comments
> >> Well, gee, 2/3rds the Senate wasn't at the Conventus were they?
> >>
> >> Perhaps why the Senate wasn't interested was because we at Nova Roma
> > listen
> >> to 150 crackpot ideas every year. If you have tentative designs, I
> > and other
> >> Senators want to see them. It'll save lot of time in the future if
> > the Senate
> >> rejects the design, and demands another. Then you can be ahead
of your
> >> production curve and not behind it.
> >>
> >> Q. Fabius Maximus
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38818 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/5/2005 2:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:
I apologize for the intemperate tone of this post, but frankly I am
pretty disappointed that someone would suddenly jump in, after showing
no interest and offering no help whatsoever, with this nonsense.
Ok, so let me get this straight: Our last coin had the NR logo on it while
this one won't?

What's it going to say: "Rome Rules?"

And for your info Cato the Clueless I did contact the first organizer, and
never received a reply. So naturally I figured another it was an other idea
that ran out of steam. Or died
of public disinterest.
A complete package is useless. Its like saying, "I want you to fire my clay
statue. How much will it cost? Oh, my statue size? Let me get back to you
on that."

Our last coin had the design displayed on a seperate website long before the
Senate
ever voted on it.
I would like to look at the designs. I believe so would some other Senators.
I don't think that's too much to ask at this point.

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38819 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Imperial Eagles
Salvete Omnes

In case anyone has missed it, the project to support the endangered
imperial eagles ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquilaheliaca/ ) is
going well and the group site has lots of interesting information and
pictures. It is indeed a worthy cause.

*Citizen now leaves forum and returns to his farm*

M. Lucretius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38820 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/5/2005 6:42:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:
think that Lucretius Agricola was referring (sarcastically) to
Fabius Maximus' implication that the new coin project is one of the
"150 crackpot ideas" the Senate is forced to suffer through "every
year" --- not that he [Agricola] actually thinks that is is a crackpot
idea.
Actually the farmer brought it on himself with the incredible statement that
I should know
about this since it was discussed at the European meeting that I somehow
missed.

Coinage is not in itself a "crackpot" idea. Those who have original coin(s)
in their position know by handling it how much more real Nova Roma becomes to
the bearer. But, we thought this idea was discontinued since we unfortunate
Senators did not attend the meeting. Imagine several us being surprised when
I. it was mentioned again, II. Someone involved accused the former Subscriber
of the first coin, of fraud. That raised several warning flags, and some
Senators sort wondered what exactly was going on.

Then Censor Marinius said it was under the control of the censor's office,
and then Censor Fabius admitted he had no idea what was really happening. We
Senators do talk via e-mail you know, and some of us decided we would like to
see the designs. The Censors are not the Senate, they are just two members of
the Senate. Now this may all bother you, I mean our concern about Nova Roma
and NR INC. and what's going on within Nova Roma, but if we didn't, we would be
pretty useless as the BoD of Nova Roma wouldn't we?

So what started out as what I thought was a simple inquiry into the nature of
the project, has turned into a life & death drama, accusations of mis use of
power, fraud and general incompetence. This was something I did not foresee
happening when I made what I thought was a simple request about something I am
technically involved in. All the Senate is. That's our job.
And I'm sorry that I insulted anybody and drove hundreds of members of NR
into the SVR's ranks. Oh wait. They have all returned. Guess NR is the
superior organization.
So when does the Senate see the designs? Just the frigging designs, we don't
need to see the funding, display cases, the list of subscriber names. We can
look at that at a later date. Now back to business.

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38821 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:

> So when does the Senate see the designs? Just the frigging designs,
we don't
> need to see the funding, display cases, the list of subscriber
names. We can
> look at that at a later date. Now back to business.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>

Go to the group website. Everything is there. Always has been.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38822 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Paris (was Pilate)
Salvete,

this is an off-topic talk; however I am more than willing to explain privately what is
going on in Paris. I live there.

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

--- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:

> Too much tolerance can be deadly. Just look at the
> problems in Germany,the American
> southwest,France,SPAIN,etc.For fear of a facist label
> the WEST dones nil.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > These riots would be nothing new to the Romans;
> check out about riots
> > in Roman Alexandria. I'm sure they found that whole
> middle east and its
> > provincials a real pest hole at times.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>




__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38823 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Corvinian Sovreignty
Salve omnes,

Ahhh at last- we are getting dangerously close to
having to invoke Godwin's Law on this post!

>> Not that I find merit in it, but I fear you have
forgotten that the imagination of one man spurred what
I dare call one of the worst, if not the worst,
genocide of the Twentieth Century, and perhaps all
time, lest the atrocities committed by members of the
Nazi party be left to oblivion! <<

The joys of online deebate!

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

--- "Q. Caecilius Metellus" <postumianus@...>
wrote:

> Q. Caecilius Metellus Fetialis T. Flavio sal.
>
> I allow that you may indeed have a vaild case that
> you have set before
> us (i.e., that Corvinia should no longer be a
> recognised state), but the
> reasons you have set out and the explanations you
> give with them fail to
> persuade me that our recognition should be
> withdrawn. But in fact, it
> is almost a moot point, as the fact of the matter is
> that the decision
> belongs not to the People, but to the Senate. So we
> must, by the very
> nature of the beast, defer the question to the
> Senate for debate. But
> for the moment, I would like to entertain your
> statements, and offer my
> counter-arguments.
>
> You state first, "Corvinia has no correlation in
> history or reality." I
> will grant you the latter point, but it is the
> former that requires some
> notice. Is the fact that Corvinia is not an attempt
> to reproduce, or
> resurrect, or live after any historical people a
> valid reason not to
> recognise it? If so, a logical following argument
> might be that Great
> Britain, or Russia, or Turkey, or any one of the
> countries currently
> recognised by the United Nations ought not to be
> recognised. The fact
> that it lacks that tie to history is not, in my
> opinion, enough to deny
> it recognition; remember that every state, every
> nation, every people
> must start from some point of origination.
>
> You next state, "The Corvinian website seems to
> indicate no recent
> activity", and base your argument on the fact that
> the most recent
> legislation was passed four years ago. Again, I
> disagree that this is
> reason for withdrawl of our recognition. It is
> possible, I think, for a
> government to operate without passing needless laws
> day in and day out.
> I would grant you that many governments are
> entirely incapable, it
> would seem, to do just this, but it is not
> impossible to be done by
> governments on the whole. So here, again, I do not
> find this to be
> enough, or even a factor leading to such a decision,
> to withdraw our
> recognition of Corvinia.
>
> Again from you, "Corvinia is centered on the
> imagination of one man".
> Is it that we are ready to take that jump, which
> would so clearly state
> that the imagination of one man is unimportant? Not
> that I find merit
> in it, but I fear you have forgotten that the
> imagination of one man
> spurred what I dare call one of the worst, if not
> the worst, genocide of
> the Twentieth Century, and perhaps all time, lest
> the atrocities
> committed by members of the Nazi party be left to
> oblivion! No, indeed
> I think we must now recognise the imagination of one
> person and the
> potency it has. And so again, I do not find this to
> be a factor to
> contribute to a decision to withdraw our recognition
> of Corvinia.
>
> So in the end, I have to say that, at least for the
> reasons you have
> presented, I do not believe that the Senate should
> withdraw our
> recognition of Corvinia. I find in your argument
> only one point which
> would adequately, and properly, contribute to such a
> decision, but the
> remainder of your reasoning I do not find properly
> and adequately
> leading the the result for which you are asking.
>
>




__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38824 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
C. Equitius Cato Q. Fabio Maximo sal.

Salve Quintus Fabius.

Quintus, you wrote:

"But, we thought this idea was discontinued since we unfortunate
Senators did not attend the meeting. Imagine several us being
surprised when I. it was mentioned again, II. Someone involved accused
the former Subscriber of the first coin, of fraud. That raised several
warning flags, and some Senators sort wondered what exactly was going on."

1. The idea of minting new coins was brought up on 9 June 2005; there
were several days of discussion regarding it; the creation of the coin
project List was on 14 June, 2005 --- two months before the Conventus.
The fact that some of us met and discussed some particulars
face-to-face at the Conventus has absolutely nothing to do with the
general knowledge that it was proceeding.

2. The new coin project has nothing to do with the old coin; as a
matter of fact, it was brought up publicly that we had repeatedly
attempted to get information about the mint used for the first coin
from Cassius Iulianus, with no response. We then announced that we
were looking for a new mint, and actually asked in this Forum for
anyone who had any kind of information regarding mints to visit the NR
Coin List or contact one of us.

3. If you had wanted to know "what was going on", you should have
looked at the NR Coins List; it is open to anyone to join and always
has been, and months of work and information are there --- every step
of the way. I do not know who the "several" of you who were suprised,
but this latest discussion (the appeal for more investors) is
certainly not the only time the new coin project has been brought up;
a quick search o the messages using "coin" brings up dozens of references.


You wrote:

"Now this may all bother you, I mean our concern about Nova Roma
and NR INC. and what's going on within Nova Roma, but if we didn't, we
would be pretty useless as the BoD of Nova Roma wouldn't we?"

Maximus, I will not address anyone other than *you* specifically,
because I do not know of a single other senator who has announced his
"concern" over the new coin project. If you were indeed so
"concern[ed]", once again, all you had to do was hop over to the NR
Coins List and read --- or even pay attention to the information that
was given here, in the Forum. But "[you] didn't" --- and I leave the
rest of your words to stand for themselves.


You wrote:

"So what started out as what I thought was a simple inquiry into the
nature of the project..."

No, you marched in and stated:

"However, as a Senator I have to complain that chain of command has
not been followed...Must I remind those involved that coining money is
the Senate's responsibility, especially coins with the NR logo on it."

Making it obvious that you had neither taken the time nor the care to
actually look at the new coin project before starting to wave your
"I'm a senator" club around. Again, no other senator has complained,
no other senator has made any kind of statement that even *infers*
concern about the progression of the project --- and there are four
senators on the NR Coins List as members.


You wrote:

"Ok, so let me get this straight: Our last coin had the NR logo on it
while this one won't? What's it going to say: "Rome Rules?"

Well, if you'd bother to take any kind of interest (what you refer to
as "[your] job"), you'd know exactly what kind of designs we've been
creating, and what we have decided on.


You wrote:

"Now back to business."

You have shown no interest, offered nothing, been of no use or help
whatsoever --- but instead have approached those of us who have worked
on this for almost six months with a patronizing, dismissive attitude.
You may go back to whatever "business" you might be involved in, but
it certainly hasn't been the new coin project. Before opening your
mouth regarding an issue of which you have show only the barest
glimmering of knowledge, you might want to actually *do* something to
learn about it.


Vale,

Cato "the Clueless"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38825 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Salve omnes,

I do not know the full back-story on the Paris riots;
however, whatever the politico-religious reason given
for them are meaningless. Rioting, in and of itself,
is still a criminal act and as such the rioters need
to be dealt with just as any other vandals (my apology
to the Vandal tribesmen out there). For a State to
quell rioting is not a Fascist act- no more than it is
a Communist act, or a Democratic act, or what have
you. Quelling a riot is simply a matter of the State
enforcing its own laws and restoring order to the
streets. I am sure the ancient Romans would have had
no second thoughts about putting down a riot- and they
would have done it without even thinking about trials
and jail time. You see a rioter- put him to the sword;
how simple is that? Obviously that tactic wouldn't
work today, but you see my point. Deal with them-
don't just let them ruin a city.

I vote for sending in the troops to clear the streets
of Paris and making them beautiful again.

Unfortunately I deleted the message, but I did see a
post from a member who lives in Paris. To you I send
my regards and wishes for a safe city for you; I hope
you are not in any personal danger from this unrest. I
had the good fortune to visit Paris many years ago
while stationed in Germany in the US Army. My stay was
not nearly as long as I would have liked; I hope to be
able to return one day.

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38826 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: post. Id. Nov.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est postridie Nones Novembris; haec dies fastus aterque est.


"M. Claudius Marcellus and T. Valerius were the new consuls. I find in
the annals Flaccus and Potitus variously given as the consul's
cognomen, but the question is of small importance. This year gained an
evil notoriety, either through the unhealthy weather or through human
guilt. I would gladly believe-and the authorities are not unanimous on
the point-that it is a false story which states that those whose
deaths made the year notorious for pestilence were really carried off
by poison. I shall, however, relate the matter as it has been handed
down to avoid any appearance of impugning the credit of our
authorities. The foremost men in the State were being attacked by the
same malady, and in almost every case with the same fatal results. A
maid-servant went to Q. Fabius Maximus, one of the curule aediles, and
promised to reveal the cause of the public mischief if the government
would guarantee her against any danger in which her discovery might
involve her. Fabius at once brought the matter to the notice of the
consuls and they referred it to the senate, who authorised the promise
of immunity to be given. She then disclosed the fact that the State
was suffering through the crimes of certain women; those poisons were
concocted by Roman matrons, and if they would follow her at once she
promised that they should catch the poisoners in the act. They
followed their informant and actually found some women compounding
poisonous drugs and some poisons already made up. These latter were
brought into the Forum, and as many as twenty matrons, at whose houses
they had been seized, were brought up by the magistrates' officers.
Two of them, Cornelia and Sergia, both members of patrician houses,
contended that the drugs were medicinal preparations. The
maid-servant, when confronted with them, told them to drink some that
they might prove she had given false evidence. They were allowed time
to consult as to what they would do, and the bystanders were ordered
to retire that they might take counsel with the other matrons. They
all consented to drink the drugs, and after doing so fell victims to
their own criminal designs. Their attendants were instantly arrested,
and denounced a large number of matrons as being guilty of the same
offence, out of whom a hundred and seventy were found guilty. Up to
that time there had never been a charge of poison investigated in
Rome. The whole incident was regarded as a portent, and thought to be
an act of madness rather than deliberate wickedness. In consequence of
the universal alarm created, it was decided to follow the precedent
recorded in the annals. During the secessions of the plebs in the old
days a nail had been driven in by the Dictator, and by this act of
expiation men's minds, disordered by civil strife, had been restored
to sanity. A resolution was passed accordingly, that a Dictator should
be appointed to drive in the nail. Cnaeus Quinctilius was appointed
and named L. Valerius as his Master of the Horse. After the nail was
driven in they resigned office." - Livy, History of Rome 8.18



"But Tiamat without turning her neck roared, spitting defiance from
bitter lips, 'Upstart, do you think yourself too great? Are they
scurrying now from their holes to yours?' Then the lord raised the
hurricane, the great weapon he flung his words at the termagant fury,
'Why are you rising, your pride vaulting, your heart set on faction,
so that sons reject fathers? Mother of all, why did you have to mother
war? 'You made that bungler your husband, Kingu! You gave him the
rank, not his by right, of Anu. You have abused the gods my ancestors,
in bitter malevolence you threaten Anshar, the king of all the gods.
'You have marshaled forces for battle, prepared the war-tackle. Stand
up alone and we will fight it you, you and I alone in battle.'" -
Babylonian Creation Epic, Tablet VI

On this day the ancient Babylonians celebrated the birth of Tiamat.
She took the form of a dragon and swam in the primal waters. Long
before the time of the new gods, and there was only chaos. This chaos
was ruled by the old gods Apsu (fresh water) and Tiamat (the sea). So
a new or younger generation of gods were created for the purpose of
bringing order to chaos. Summoning all of the other young gods,
Marduk went to war against Tiamat. Finally, in a one on one battle,
Tiamat was no match for the great Marduk, Lord of the Four Quarters.
Cornering Tiamat with the four winds at his command, Marduk caught
Tiamat up in his net. When Tiamat opened her mouth to breath fire at
him, Marduk let loose the Imhulla, "evil wind" or hurricane. The many
winds of Marduk filled her up. The winds churning her up from within,
rendered her defenseless. Then Marduk speared her with a lightning bolt.

Splitting Tiamat (the sea) in two, Marduk then raised half of her body
to create the sky and with the other half created the earth. In the
process of this splitting apart, Tiamat's eyes then became the sources
of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. In the realm above (heaven) Marduk
set Anu, the sky god, and in the realm below (earth) Marduk set Ea,
the earth god. Between the two, Marduk set the air god, Enlil. Other
gods were then given their places in the heavens and then the stars
were formed in their likeness.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/Liv2His.html),
Tiamat (http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html) and
(http://astrology.about.com/od/oddstrange/a/newyear.htm)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38827 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salve,

I think you're over dramatizing the discussion a bit. Life or death?
hehe. But I applaud you on your use of sarcasm.

/golf clap

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
>

> So what started out as what I thought was a simple inquiry into the
nature of
> the project, has turned into a life & death drama, accusations of
mis use of
> power, fraud and general incompetence. This was something I did
not foresee
> happening when I made what I thought was a simple request about
something I am
> technically involved in. All the Senate is. That's our
job.
> And I'm sorry that I insulted anybody and drove hundreds of members
of NR
> into the SVR's ranks. Oh wait. They have all returned. Guess NR
is the
> superior organization.
> So when does the Senate see the designs? Just the frigging
designs, we don't
> need to see the funding, display cases, the list of subscriber
names. We can
> look at that at a later date. Now back to business.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38828 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: NR Coinage
Salve omnes,

My knowledge of minting is nil, and my newness to NR
excludes me from being in-the-know regarding our
previous coinage, or the process in place to
approve/diapprove such things. I do have a few
questions, though, as this thread of discussion has
come to the forefront.

Regarding the NR 'logo'- the SPQR within a wreath- is
this logo copyrighted in some way? If not, then does
it not follow that anyone is free to use it with or
without the Senate's approval?

If a citizen, hypothetically speaking, were to mint
his own coins would he not be free to offer those to
the NR public as long as it was clear that these were
not offered as an 'official' NR product? Does NR have
the real-world legal authority to issue 'licenses' for
products?

The thought did strike me out of the blue that
virtually anyone can mint coins, given whatever
startup finances that would be required and a
rudimentary knowledge of casting and metallurgy. But
if one goes a low-tech route- eliminating fancy dies
and and presses and exotic metal compounds and such-
surely it can't be THAT bad.

I ask these questions not to incur further antagonism
over this subject, but to clarify the issue for myself
as well as any others who may be new and/or previously
'out of the loop' on the subject.

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38829 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
SALVE !

Gaius Licinius Crassus <g_licinius_crassus@...> wrote:
Salve omnes,

<<I do have a few questions, though, as this thread of discussion has
come to the forefront.

Regarding the NR 'logo'- the SPQR within a wreath- is
this logo copyrighted in some way? If not, then does
it not follow that anyone is free to use it with or
without the Senate's approval?>>



http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2003-03-03-i.html

<<If a citizen, hypothetically speaking, were to mint
his own coins would he not be free to offer those to
the NR public as long as it was clear that these were
not offered as an 'official' NR product? Does NR have
the real-world legal authority to issue 'licenses' for
products?>>

http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/nrinc.html


<<I ask these questions not to incur further antagonism
over this subject, but to clarify the issue for myself
as well as any others who may be new and/or previously
'out of the loop' on the subject. >>

That is correct.



VALE BENE,

IVL SABINVS



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com






SPONSORED LINKS
Fall of the roman empire

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------







"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38830 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
> Rape is a disgusting word. As a cop it is my dream
> to
> catch the skelis creep BEFORE he commits the
> act.Capture is implied not rape in the modern
> definition.

It sounds like the world of 'Minority Report' might be
good for you!
Vale, Diana



__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38831 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
M. Lucretius Agricola C. Licinio Crasso S.P.D.

Welcome to Nova Roma. As I like to mention to new citizens, there are
many worthy projects within the NR community that seldom or never
appear on this, the "Main List". It is good to seek them out.

The SPQR/wreath is a copyright of Nova Roma and can only be used with
the Senate's permission.

Outside of the copyright question there are no constraints on creating
Roman style or Roman theme objects. Without the Senate's permisson it
is impossible to create official currency, of course.

Note that there is an equestrian order here to which merchant citizens
may belong who wish to do business within Rova Roma. (See the
"macellum" page). I personally wish that more citizens would be
involved there.

The "rudimentary knowledge" to which you refer is put into practice by
an active guild of minters within the SCA. They use hand methods,
often very traditional hand methods, to produce coins, but often in
very limited numbers.

In terms of technology, minting coins in authentic Roman fashion would
require a garage, a couple friends and a trip to a decent hardware
store. Plus, and this is probably the hardest part, real talent in
cutting dies by hand at actual scale. I've seen a lot of coins, and if
you get to hold the real thing in your hand, something from the Roman
mint, not provincial, not barbaric, not late, and not totally worn
down I assure you that if you think about what you are seeing, if you
know how it was made, you will be moved to tears. Their artistry,
sometimes derided by Hellenists I know, was simply awesome. Then when
you remember the scale of production, that these were made in the
millions, you will be humbled. Even with all modern advances some
macronations produce truly ugly coins. Romans made art, by hand,
massively, and used it as small change. And they did it for centuries.


If you visit the AntiquaNova web site and see Pavel Newman's videos
you will get a good idea of what was involved.
http://www.antiquanova.com/ Pavel makes wonderful coins.


Using modern techniques and commercial sources, it is easy to make
coin-like objects (jetons). Any number of companies are available for
you. If one starts now one could have a finished product in hand in
three weeks. To make coins that are beautiful and at a very low price
is another thing entirely. Plan on six months. Maybe longer.


Well, enough of this. If you (or anyone) have/has any questions, feel
free to contact me directly.


Optime vale!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
<g_licinius_crassus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve omnes,
>
> My knowledge of minting is nil, and my newness to NR
> excludes me from being in-the-know regarding our
> previous coinage, or the process in place to
> approve/diapprove such things. I do have a few
> questions, though, as this thread of discussion has
> come to the forefront.
>
> Regarding the NR 'logo'- the SPQR within a wreath- is
> this logo copyrighted in some way? If not, then does
> it not follow that anyone is free to use it with or
> without the Senate's approval?
>
> If a citizen, hypothetically speaking, were to mint
> his own coins would he not be free to offer those to
> the NR public as long as it was clear that these were
> not offered as an 'official' NR product? Does NR have
> the real-world legal authority to issue 'licenses' for
> products?
>
> The thought did strike me out of the blue that
> virtually anyone can mint coins, given whatever
> startup finances that would be required and a
> rudimentary knowledge of casting and metallurgy. But
> if one goes a low-tech route- eliminating fancy dies
> and and presses and exotic metal compounds and such-
> surely it can't be THAT bad.
>
> I ask these questions not to incur further antagonism
> over this subject, but to clarify the issue for myself
> as well as any others who may be new and/or previously
> 'out of the loop' on the subject.
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38832 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
As a policeman and former soldier I agree w/ you.
Nonetheless,most U.S.cops are forced to use kid gloves
during riots thus giving thugs upper hand &
confidence.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<g_licinius_crassus@...> wrote:
> Salve omnes,
>
> I do not know the full back-story on the Paris
riots;
> however, whatever the politico-religious reason
given
> for them are meaningless. Rioting, in and of itself,
> is still a criminal act and as such the rioters need
> to be dealt with just as any other vandals (my
apology
> to the Vandal tribesmen out there). For a State to
> quell rioting is not a Fascist act- no more than it
is
> a Communist act, or a Democratic act, or what have
> you. Quelling a riot is simply a matter of the State
> enforcing its own laws and restoring order to the
> streets. I am sure the ancient Romans would have had
> no second thoughts about putting down a riot- and
they
> would have done it without even thinking about
trials
> and jail time. You see a rioter- put him to the
sword;
> how simple is that? Obviously that tactic wouldn't
> work today, but you see my point. Deal with them-
> don't just let them ruin a city.
>
> I vote for sending in the troops to clear the
streets
> of Paris and making them beautiful again.
>
> Unfortunately I deleted the message, but I did see a
> post from a member who lives in Paris. To you I send
> my regards and wishes for a safe city for you; I
hope
> you are not in any personal danger from this unrest.
I
> had the good fortune to visit Paris many years ago
> while stationed in Germany in the US Army. My stay
was
> not nearly as long as I would have liked; I hope to
be
> able to return one day.
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38833 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Salve Iuli Sabini,

Thank you for the reply and the links- a mere few
moments after I posted my original message I had a
blinding flash of the obvious and searched the NR site
for the incorporation documents and such!

However, as to the logo itself, I know the 'flag' is
use-protected, but what of the 'SPQR within a wreath'
by itself? I know that is indeed close to the mark,
but as you know all legalities nowadays are quite
nit-picky about details, details, details!

Vale optime,

G Licinius Crassus

--- iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> SALVE !
>
> Gaius Licinius Crassus
> <g_licinius_crassus@...> wrote:
> Salve omnes,
>
> <<I do have a few questions, though, as this thread
> of discussion has
> come to the forefront.
>
> Regarding the NR 'logo'- the SPQR within a wreath-
> is
> this logo copyrighted in some way? If not, then does
> it not follow that anyone is free to use it with or
> without the Senate's approval?>>
>
>
>
>
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2003-03-03-i.html
>
>
> <<If a citizen, hypothetically speaking, were to
> mint
> his own coins would he not be free to offer those to
> the NR public as long as it was clear that these
> were
> not offered as an 'official' NR product? Does NR
> have
> the real-world legal authority to issue 'licenses'
> for
> products?>>
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/nrinc.html
>
>
>
> <<I ask these questions not to incur further
> antagonism
> over this subject, but to clarify the issue for
> myself
> as well as any others who may be new and/or
> previously
> 'out of the loop' on the subject. >>
>
> That is correct.
>
>
>
> VALE BENE,
>
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Fall of the roman empire
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Every individual is the arhitect of his own
> fortune" - Appius Claudius
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38834 From: David Santo Orcero Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: presentation
Salvete, omnes!

My name is Lucius Tullius Malacitanus. I was born in Flavia Malacita, the
former Phoenithian colony of Malaka that became friend of Roman city
before the punic wars. The city is near Carteia (Colonia Latia
Libertorum), the first Roman colony outside italic land. It is on the
south of Hispania, serveral stadium near former Punic military post of
Qart Tima, on the coast of Mare Nostrum, between Gadir and Sexi.

I asked for Roman citicenship several days ago, and I use this message to
present myself to the Roman Civium and the Roman senate. I would also want
to ask several questions that were not solved on the FAQ.

First one; I filled the questionary on the web page. I have to do
something more to ask the citicienship, or now is just to wait?

Second one, digging on the history, I have found that several other gens
are more related with historical Roman Hispaniae than Tullius. As far as
It looks that my citienship request has not been processed, Do I fill
again the web formulary whith the trinomem of Lucius Cornelius
Malacitanus, or you take it into account when you process the citienship.

Yours:

Lucius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38835 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Roman message information?
A. Apollonius L. Fidelio omnibusque sal.

An interesting question (or two questions).

As C. Minucius has mentioned, the choice whether to
use a Latin salutation at the opening of a message is
purely personal. A lot of people do it, and it could
be regarded as a social convention, but then again a
lot more people don't do it. Some don't even bother to
indicate their names at any point in their message!
Nor need it necessarily be a salutation in Latin:
before I was confident about using Latin my habit was
to use an English salutation translating the Latin. I
would say "A. Apollonius Cordus to So-and-so,
greetings).

My own view is that the headers of the e-mail don't do
quite the same job. They certainly indicate who the
message is from. In a private message they also
indicate who the message is to, but this is not so in
a message to an e-mail list. For instance, the headers
of this e-mail tell you only that I am writing to this
list, but my own salutation tells you that I'm writing
specifically to you, and also (as a secondary
consideration) to everyone else ("omnibus").

Also the Latin salutation gives much more flexibility
than e-mail headers. They allow you to indicate the
level of formality of the message, and to include
compliments, terms of endearment, or even insults. For
instance, in my messages on public lists I generally
adopt a more formal tone, saying "A. Apollonius L.
Fidelio sal." - the use of two names is more formal
than the use of only one. (The use of all three names
is extremely formal and very rare in ancient texts.)
But in private messages to people I know I will tend
to say "Cordus Graeco sal."

When one addresses a person by name one of course must
choose which name or names to use, and this gives one
a chance to indicate your attitude. A nobilis (a
descendant of a curule magistrate) is entitled to be
addressed by praenomen + cognomen, and to address him
by praenomen + nomen would be rather insulting. On the
other hand a novus homo (someone who is not a nobilis)
would normally be addressed by praenomen + nomen, so
to call him by praenomen + cognomen is very
flattering. So I would normally say "A. Apollonius Q.
Maximo sal.", since Q. Maximus is a nobilis; but if I
should wish to cast doubt on his noble lineage I might
say "A. Apollonius Q. Fabio sal."

One can also add extra words to give added expression
to one's thoughts. For instance if I were feeling very
affectionate toward you I might say "A. Apollonius L.
Fidelio carissimo suo sal."; if, on the other hand, I
were feeling rather angry with you I might say "A.
Apollonius L. Fidelio homine despecto sal."

One more thing to notice is that Roman letters were
often hinged wooden or wax tablets, like a small book
with only two pages. It would be closed with a seal,
and on the outside would often be written the name of
the person the letter was for; perhaps also the name
of the sender. This would be something like an e-mail
header. But, inside, the letter would still begin with
the standard salutation. So with this in mind I like
to think that the Romans would have kept their
salutations even with e-mail headers.

Now, your second question was about status. I really
don't think we should make much of the difference
between patricians and plebejans. It was an important
difference in the early republic, but in the middle
and late periods it really didn't matter. The
important difference was between the nobilis and the
novus homo, and this can indeed be reflected in a
salutation as I mentioned. But both nobiles and novi
homines, both patricians and plebejans, used the
normal salutation in their letters. So I don't think
plebejans or novi homines should feel any inhibition
about using Latin salutations, or any Latin words or
phrases, in their messages. Indeed I would heartily
encourage everyone to use as much Latin as he wants!
The use of Latin can only increase our general
Romanitas.

I hope that helps!



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38836 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: presentation
A. Apollonius L. Tullio omnibusque sal.

Salve, welcome, L. Tulli. I hope you enjoy it here.
You're in an excellent province, as I'm sure you know
- all the cives Hispani I've met have been charmin,
and there are a ot of exciting provincial pojects
going on which we in the smaller province of Britannia
regard with envy. :)

If you want to change your nomen, you don't need to
fill in a new application form. You just need to
contact the censores to discuss it. I'll forward your
message to them, and you will hear from them fairly soon.



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38837 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
A. Apollonius K. Buteoni omnibusque sal.

> >Rest assured, the process of producing the new
> coins
> >will not go ahead until it has been approved by the
> >senate, and the censores are keeping a watchful eye
> on
> >it.
>
> Although I am following the project with the new
> coins from the
> side-lines, I am _not_ at all informed or
> "following" it as in
> "supervising" the project.

K. Buteo, you forget that it is a basic principle of
Roman constitutional law that the censores always act
collegially. Therefore any act taken by one censor and
not contradicted by the other is considered to be an
act taken by both censores. Your colleague has been
keeping an eye on the project by subscribing to the
public e-mail list on which the discussions are taking
place; and, in the eyes of the law, since he is there
you are also there. :)





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38838 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
A. Apollonius Q. Maximo omnibusque sal.

Q. Maxime, you are talking ex ano as usual.

The idea of minting a new coin was floated early this
year on this list. Many citizens including Cn.
Equitius censor were involved in the discussion, and,
if you look back in the archives, you will see that
the main focus of those discussions was to ensure that
the proper procedures were observed. Many citizens at
that time wrung their hands and feared that all this
legalistic stuff would kill the initiative, but it did
not.

It resulted in a special e-mail list being set up for
anyone interested in either helping with the project
or keeping an eye on it to ensure that nothing was
done improperly. I was one of those who joined for the
latter reason; Cn. Equitius was another. I ended up
assisting as well as auditing.

Throughout this year the project has been advertised
on this very list, and people interested in helping
have been invited to join the list. The list has been
public, and publicly listed, throughout.

From the very beginning, as you will see if you visit
that list and read its archives, it was understood
that the senate would be presented with a proposal for
approval as soon as some provisional designs had been
worked out and provisional contact been made with one
or more possible mints. We are now very close to that
stage, and all that remains is to draw up the proposal
itself and to ensure that the necessary money is in
place.

The idea of involving the whole senate in every stage
of the process is absolutely hare-brained. As you know
perfecly well, a single meeting of the senate takes at
least a month. Our designs have gone through at least
twenty different stages of evolution. If we had
invited the senate to participate at every stage, it
would have taken two years to get to the stage we are
now at, and probably longer.

You suggest that if the senate rejects the proposed
designs then we shall have wasted a lot of time.
That's true, but frankly it is none of your business.
We considered the possibilities and came to the
conclusion, rightly in my view, that it would be more
efficient to seek the senate's approval only when the
project was sufficiently advanced that, if the senate
should then give its approval, the designs could be
finalized quickly and coins be put into production as
soon as possible thereafter. We did not think the
senate or the people would be very pleased if we
received the senate's approval and then faffed around
for six months afterwards.

If you wish, as you seem to wish, that the senate
should closely supervise every stage of every project
which will eventually require its approval, then you
clearly have no conception how the ancient senate
worked. It was not a commerical ombudsman or regulator
of business. Such work was beneath its dignity. If
this is what you want to turn the senate into you will
find no support in Roman history and little, I
suspect, among your fellow senatores or in the populus
at large.

In short, this project has been operating in a
transparent and responsible way for almost a year. It
had been frequently advertised and mentioned. By
starting at this stage to say that you haven't heard
anything about it you are simply telling us what most
of us already know, which is that you have the
attention-span of a gnat and the memory of a goldfish.
The senate will be presented with a proposal for its
approval or rejection not because of your incoherent
grumbling but because that has been our intention
since the project began, as you would have known if
you took the slightest trouble to acquaint yourself
with what goes on in this republic. You have done
nothing here but cover yourself with shame and
embarrassment, senator, and I only hope that it does
not reflect badly on your august colleagues.



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38839 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Flags
A. Apollonius L. Servilio omnibusque sal.

> I have a problem and hope that someone can give me a
> good answer. Around 9-10-2005 I sent a check to the
> address in the Macellum section of N.R. homepage to
> purchase a flag. Well the check will no longer be
> good soon due to the amount of time passed is there
> a better way to purchase a flag. I just want to
> state that I live in Kansas and there is not any
> events close enough or even within several hundred
> miles for me to attend to purchase them at.
>
> Is there someone I can contact at the Macellum in
> Wells Me.

As has been mentioned, the man to talk to is M.
Cassius. If you are unable to resolve the matter in
that way, the next step is to contact the aediles, who
have supervision of commerical transactions in the Macellum.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38840 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
SALVE !

Gaius Licinius Crassus <g_licinius_crassus@...> wrote:
Salve Iuli Sabini,

<<Thank you for the reply >>
With pleasure.

<<However, as to the logo itself, I know the 'flag' is
use-protected, but what of the 'SPQR within a wreath'
by itself? I know that is indeed close to the mark,
but as you know all legalities nowadays are quite
nit-picky about details, details, details!>>



Yes, indeed, details, details. I'm working in these days to record a mark for my company. It's a unexpected very hard process. And I'm talking about a national mark.( to record an international mark, I belive, it's equivalent with a trip in hell ) The complete record will be done in a year and it cost a lot. The record validity is for ten years. And I have completed a lot of forms, with a lot of very similar variants. But of course all of that are a part of my country rules . No conections with anothers countries, and NR.



VALE BENE,

IVL SABINVS








"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38841 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Salve Caesariensis,

Most religions as well as cultures, including Islam have their own cosmology. You are correct though, they should not be confused with science, yet some of the most brilliant scientists were also quite driven by their religious beliefs and used their science to "explain" what their religion hinted at but could not adequately explain. The Greek philosophers were of very much cut out of this cloth as was Einstein.

FYI: If the tradition can be believed, Lao Tsu was not allowed to retire his government post and leave the kingdom to go into obscurity as he desired until he wrote those 5,000 words amice. The implication here is that he was forced to in order to live his life the way he wanted to. His work Dao De Jing is probably one of the most misunderstood pieces of "religious" literature ever written. Perhaps our posts are too?

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus




PS. Now can we get back to the fascinating speculations on what might have been
relationships between the various 'Zealot' groups and other sectarians from
which Christianity developed?

>(Me!)
I'd think it absolutely essential! The business of science is toexplain the
physical world on its own terms. The business of religion is about transcendent
experience and relationship, probablymorality, though not all religions are
moralistic. To treatreligious writ as a science or even history manual reduces



"Lao Tsu says those those who know do not tell while who tell do not know, So
how come Lao Tsu wrote 5,000 words?" - Chinese critic.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38842 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: My appologies to the Republic.Frustration had the better of me.
Salve all.I express regret & embarassment to all for
my rash labeling of the Res Publica as role playing.We
often hear of Roman arrogance...I fell right into it

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38843 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
Please Quirites! Novi Nova Roma coinage is a GOOD
thing.Lets not allow legalities & Constitutional
debate kill this thing.I know this is a good
thing-PROGRESS!
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius K. Buteoni omnibusque sal.
>
> > >Rest assured, the process of producing the new
> > coins
> > >will not go ahead until it has been approved by
the
> > >senate, and the censores are keeping a watchful
eye
> > on
> > >it.
> >
> > Although I am following the project with the new
> > coins from the
> > side-lines, I am _not_ at all informed or
> > "following" it as in
> > "supervising" the project.
>
> K. Buteo, you forget that it is a basic principle of
> Roman constitutional law that the censores always
act
> collegially. Therefore any act taken by one censor
and
> not contradicted by the other is considered to be an
> act taken by both censores. Your colleague has been
> keeping an eye on the project by subscribing to the
> public e-mail list on which the discussions are
taking
> place; and, in the eyes of the law, since he is
there
> you are also there. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________

> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC
calling worldwide with voicemail
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38844 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salvete quirites,

Anyone interested in seeing the proposed designs for the new coins may
do so by going to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrcoins/ and clicking on
"Files" in the left side banner. The files section contains the various
designs that have been worked up for this project.

The mailing list is open to anyone, and I think the posts are readable
by anyone.

Valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38845 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Salve Crassus,

They were Jewish! And, no factual evidence existed, which is precisely why it took generations of myth making, PR, and proselytizing. In my opinion the real reason Christianity finally took hold (with gentiles not Jews!) was simply because the "message" was indeed so radical and so profound that it made people take a second look and it changed their lives. In a world were people stabbed each other first and asked questions later it was such an unusually idealistic view of life, it must have been quite alien. It was also so uplifting for the human spirit! As you may already know, when you start to think positively and wish others well, everything within you changes as well as the responses you receive. Simply putting a smile on your face when meeting someone creates a difference in the way they respond to you. Adopting his message to their lives must have been such an overwhelming experience for those who could not have even imagined a world where you did not have to take an eye for an eye.

***The recent exchanges about the new coinage on this forum is a perfect example of what I am speaking of here.***

The "Divinization" of Jesus was many generations in the making. At first he was a great Rabbi, then a Prophet then a Messiah and finally God/Man. There is simply no way of knowing how many times the Canonical Gospels were altered between the time they were first told by word of mouth to the time they were finally codified, and frankly it doesn't matter as long as a person believes in them enough to make life altering decisions in the way they live their life. Just be careful in what you take verbatim from Religious Institutions because there is at least one verifiable "Law" of God that is repeatedly broken by many Christians due to their "Religious Institutions", to the consternation of both Judaism and Islam (the other two related sects of western monotheism) - the worship of Idols (Statues of Saints, the Virgin Mary and even of Jesus, Crucifixes, Icons, etc.) In certain cultures this has gone to an extreme that even the "Religious Institutions" do not condone - Latin American Santeria comes to mind. I know what most devout Catholics will say about this statement, but please really think about deeply it before making any comments about it.

One of the chief reasons why the gospel of Thomas and any other early and other unaltered versions of the gospels need to be taken much more seriously is because they did not undergo much of this alteration. Thomas' gospel was written down on those *particular papyrus pages* that were found between 70 and 80 AD and buried in the Fourth Century. Not too many alterations therefore were made, at least in my opinion. They reflect what was actually told about him within the first generation of his death. If any evidence can be given from a real copy of the Canonical Gospels that is dated to this early a period and prove that there were no alterations made over the several hundred years before their codification then I will stand down and agree most heartily that I am totally wrong in my "opinions". I guess, like the "other" Thomas I need to be shown proof. Personally, I believe this particular story in the Canonical gospels to be one of the alterations made much later on to "prove" divinity. Only one of the Canonical chroniclers even mentions the doubts of Didymus - John!

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
www.northerncrane.net


----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus


Salvete omnes,

Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.

>>The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was not Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is important.<<



But that is the whole point- Christianity is based one the single belief of Christ's divine origin! If you accepts the word of God without believing Jesus was the literal 'son of God' then you are...Jewish!



Our friend Joe Schmoe could go around today preaching the very same things, but the minute he says "I am the son of God" an awful lot of people are going to want some proof. How much more so do we want some sort of factual, contemporary- and unbiased- documentation of Jesus' life. Think of it this way- if Jesus was on trial for claiming to be the son of God, would there be enough hard evidence to conclude that he was telling the truth? Or are we basing his defense on documents of questionable provenance written years after the events they purport to comment upon- and many of those being in direct conflict with each others' accounts of the same events?



In this particular facet of the discussion, I think you have it all backwards. Yes, the message is important- but in this case the origin of the messenger is the more important 'hot topic'. If Jesus is not of divine origin, then he is merely another prophet- albeit a wise one- in a long line of prophets.



As I said in an off-board message recently, I have a much easier time believing in something factual, rather than to just take things on faith. This includes religion, politics, personal relationships, or what have you. I suppose my attitude is "Show me".



I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek Fire...



Valete,



G Licinius Crassus




Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes,

What I don't understand is quite simple. We live in the Twenty First Century and just about every thinking person that I know has reconciled the fact that evolution is compatible with creationism if you understand that the Bible was correct in essence if not in particulars. God works through nature, it's that simple. So science explained the particulars better than the ancient people who wrote the bible could.

*(BTW: It doesn't really matter how you view the Divine in my opinion. The pantheon of Roman Gods will work just as well if that is your belief system. You must be sincere in your beliefs, that's all.)

The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was not Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is important.

The same thing applies to the Divinity of Christ. Caesariensis is just as correct as scientists are about evolution. Let's get over it. If Joe Schmoe had given us the same message in Judea and had succeeded in his ministry as Jesus did we would be singing the praises of Joe Schmoe.

He did indeed call himself the "Son of Man" and he called us all his "Brothers" the implication here is that we are "all" children of God as he was and we can all be just as close to our "Father(s)*" as he was if we allow ourselves to be. The simplest way was to just emulate him. This is Christianity at its most profound in my humble opinion and could have spared a lot of blood over the millennia if his message had truly been followed instead of the worship of the messenger and the politics of "my God is better than your God or my God is the real God, yours is just a statue, etc.".

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus



----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus


C. Equitius Cato G. Licinio Crasso omnibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Licinus Crasus, you wrote:

"Perhaps it's merely semantics, but I believe this whole paragraph
still hinges on one omitted item- that all of this is based purely on
the *belief* in the divine nature of Jesus. For example, all of the
teachings attributed to Jesus are sound and pretty reasonable- BUT
these would be just as sound and reasonable if they came from Joe
Schmoe down the street. The whole of Christian religion is based on
one question- that of whether or not Jesus is literally the 'son of God'."

Exactly, precisely 100% correct --- although I did mention this
earlier :-) --- the crux of Christian belief is in Jesus' divinity,
and all that entails. Any belief system, no matter what it would
like to call itself, is *not* Christian if it does not acknowledge
Jesus' identity as God Incarnate crucified, dead, resurrected, and
ascended.

What we are doing on the NR Christians List (to which all interested
citizens are more than welcome) is discussing both the role of
Christians within the pagan res publica AND the misinformation about,
and misinterpretation of, Christianity itself --- which is
unfortunately a very real problem.

Vale et valete,

Cato








SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 11/3/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38846 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: My appologies to the Republic.Frustration had the better of me.
--- praefectus2324@...
<praefectus2324@...> wrote:
> Salve all.I express regret & embarassment to all for
> my rash labeling of the Res Publica as role
playing.We
> often hear of Roman arrogance...I fell right into it
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38847 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete quirites,
>
> Anyone interested in seeing the proposed designs for the new coins may
> do so by going to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrcoins/ and
clicking on
> "Files" in the left side banner. The files section contains the
various
> designs that have been worked up for this project.
>
> The mailing list is open to anyone, and I think the posts are readable
> by anyone.
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus
>


One correction. The MESSAGES are open to all but the FILES are not.
The list owner can change this.

M. Lucr. Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38848 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Salvete omnes,

I have a novel analogy in this ongoing discussion. The U. S. Constitution was written by consensus a little over two hundred years ago. Many other documents exist that were written at the same time by the authors of it. The Federalist papers as well as many or the correspondences of Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Adams etc. still in existence further explain their thoughts on this document. Yet we are still debating exactly what it says and there are many ways of interpreting it. Our NR Constitution was also the basis for quite a debate this past summer for more than a short while, and that is only a few years old.

Yet because a "faith" (i.e. a particular religious institution) demands total conformity to a certain tradition we are expected to believe everything that was codified in the Fourth Century as the absolute truth and nothing but the final truth on the subject or not be considered Christians? This is what is confirmed every time the Nicean Creed is recited! What Bull !!! Kool-Aid anyone?

My youngest daughter believes in Santa Clause and she is given evidence of his "existence" every December 25th. Many of us too at one time also believed this fabrication. Now that we know otherwise, does it take away from the joy of giving and receiving we experience during this great holiday. There is also no doubt about the fact that this holiday was co-opted by the Church from the Pagan Saturnalia and the Feast of the Birthday of Mithros. Another fabrication by the church. How many proven fabrications have to be mounted before a person starts to separate the message (which is authentic) from the misinformation about the messenger.

Confucius is another "religious" messenger figure highly misunderstood. He actually and emphatically stated that he did not want to be "worshipped" after his death. Yet that is precisely what happened - once again human nature being what it is - always misses the moon by concentrating on the finger.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus


Salvete omnes,

Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.

>>The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was not Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is important.<<



But that is the whole point- Christianity is based one the single belief of Christ's divine origin! If you accepts the word of God without believing Jesus was the literal 'son of God' then you are...Jewish!



Our friend Joe Schmoe could go around today preaching the very same things, but the minute he says "I am the son of God" an awful lot of people are going to want some proof. How much more so do we want some sort of factual, contemporary- and unbiased- documentation of Jesus' life. Think of it this way- if Jesus was on trial for claiming to be the son of God, would there be enough hard evidence to conclude that he was telling the truth? Or are we basing his defense on documents of questionable provenance written years after the events they purport to comment upon- and many of those being in direct conflict with each others' accounts of the same events?



In this particular facet of the discussion, I think you have it all backwards. Yes, the message is important- but in this case the origin of the messenger is the more important 'hot topic'. If Jesus is not of divine origin, then he is merely another prophet- albeit a wise one- in a long line of prophets.



As I said in an off-board message recently, I have a much easier time believing in something factual, rather than to just take things on faith. This includes religion, politics, personal relationships, or what have you. I suppose my attitude is "Show me".



I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek Fire...



Valete,



G Licinius Crassus




Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes,

What I don't understand is quite simple. We live in the Twenty First Century and just about every thinking person that I know has reconciled the fact that evolution is compatible with creationism if you understand that the Bible was correct in essence if not in particulars. God works through nature, it's that simple. So science explained the particulars better than the ancient people who wrote the bible could.

*(BTW: It doesn't really matter how you view the Divine in my opinion. The pantheon of Roman Gods will work just as well if that is your belief system. You must be sincere in your beliefs, that's all.)

The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was not Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is important.

The same thing applies to the Divinity of Christ. Caesariensis is just as correct as scientists are about evolution. Let's get over it. If Joe Schmoe had given us the same message in Judea and had succeeded in his ministry as Jesus did we would be singing the praises of Joe Schmoe.

He did indeed call himself the "Son of Man" and he called us all his "Brothers" the implication here is that we are "all" children of God as he was and we can all be just as close to our "Father(s)*" as he was if we allow ourselves to be. The simplest way was to just emulate him. This is Christianity at its most profound in my humble opinion and could have spared a lot of blood over the millennia if his message had truly been followed instead of the worship of the messenger and the politics of "my God is better than your God or my God is the real God, yours is just a statue, etc.".

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus



----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus


C. Equitius Cato G. Licinio Crasso omnibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Licinus Crasus, you wrote:

"Perhaps it's merely semantics, but I believe this whole paragraph
still hinges on one omitted item- that all of this is based purely on
the *belief* in the divine nature of Jesus. For example, all of the
teachings attributed to Jesus are sound and pretty reasonable- BUT
these would be just as sound and reasonable if they came from Joe
Schmoe down the street. The whole of Christian religion is based on
one question- that of whether or not Jesus is literally the 'son of God'."

Exactly, precisely 100% correct --- although I did mention this
earlier :-) --- the crux of Christian belief is in Jesus' divinity,
and all that entails. Any belief system, no matter what it would
like to call itself, is *not* Christian if it does not acknowledge
Jesus' identity as God Incarnate crucified, dead, resurrected, and
ascended.

What we are doing on the NR Christians List (to which all interested
citizens are more than welcome) is discussing both the role of
Christians within the pagan res publica AND the misinformation about,
and misinterpretation of, Christianity itself --- which is
unfortunately a very real problem.

Vale et valete,

Cato








SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 11/3/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38849 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
Salvete,

The process continues: Gay is good, homosexual is not. African/American is good, Negro is not, etc.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Bird
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman Trivia


The trouble is, the word is not a "bad" word in itself. It was in normal
polite usage still (meaning "dirt") in the first half of the 15th century.
It was only prissyness and an ever-increasing desire for euphemism that
banished it to the Bad Word List. (cf. Chaucer's Prologue to the Canterbury
Tales).

Sextus Pontius Pilatus Barbatus



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of raymond fuentes
Sent: 05 November 2005 02:04
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman Trivia



Youre not out of the woods...that word is going to
create a ****-storm HERE.Romans dont cuss,remember?
BTW,the Sabine story is way off-there was no
raid...LOL
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salve Paulinus,
>
> Excellent post amice. It's a good thing it wasn't on
the Sodalitas Militarium list, it wouldn't have been
allowed there because of the one word (S) Cicero liked
to use. I, like Cicero got blunt on a post and was
heavily chastised for it ;-) I still can't imagine how
a person can get truly informed about Rome without
dealing with all of it, the distasteful as well as the
pleasant.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:53 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I got this interesting fun trivia from Mary on the
IR2 list from a
> British site about Rome:
>
> When in Rome
>
> JONATHAN STAMP
>
>
> A for AQUEDUCT. "Greater than the Pyramids" was
how the Roman
> writer, Frontinus, described the water system of
ancient Rome, and
> it was all based on aqueducts that brought water
into the city from
> as far as 100km away. None of Rome's extraordinary
achievements
> would have been possible without them.
>
> B for BELLONA. As well as Mars, the god of war,
Romans also had a
> goddess of war. Bellona represented the bloodlust
that came over
> Roman soldiers in battle and helped them to their
great victories.
> Priests of Bellona gashed their arms open with
special knives during
> sacrifices to her.
>
>
> C for CZAR, which like "shah" and "kaiser" is a
term
> meaning "absolute ruler", derived from the word
"Caesar".
>
> D for DOG. The punishment for patricide (killing
your father) was to
> be tied up in a sack with a wild dog, a live
monkey, a snake and a
> cockerel, and be thrown into the River Tiber.
>
> E for ESQUILINE. Rome was famously built on seven
hills. As well as
> the Esquiline, there were the Palatine, the
Aventine, the Caelian,
> the Capitoline, the Quirinal and the Viminal.
Handy to know for the
> final round of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
>
> F for FASCES. The fasces were a bunch of bound
wooden sticks carried
> by men called lictors who escorted important
politicians in public.
> They symbolised the politician's authority. The
word fascism is
> derived from them.
>
> G for the GRACCHI BROTHERS. Two brothers, Gaius
and Tiberius, who
> campaigned for the rights of ordinary Romans,
upset the status quo,
> frightened the establishment and were assassinated
for their pains.
> For good measure one of them was decapitated and
had his skull
> filled with lead. Jack and Bobby Kennedy might
have done well to
> study them more closely.
>
> H for HUMAN SACRIFICE. This was practised by the
Romans in times of
> acute stress, such as war. It involved the burial
of slaves beneath
> the Forum.
>
> I for INSULA, the Latin word for an island, but
also for an
> apartment block, and the kind of accommodation in
which the majority
> of Romans lived. Insulas ranged from the swankiest
condominium on
> the Palatine Hill to the poorest, seven-storey
tenements in the
> notorious Roman slum, the Subura.
>
> J for JUPITER, the king of all the Roman gods -
and someone to have
> on your side. His temple on the Capitoline Hill
was the most
> important in Rome. So important that he was known
by his initials
> alone, JOM, standing for Jupiter Optimus Maximus
(Jupiter, Biggest
> and Best).
>
> K for KALENDS. The Romans had three set days in
every month: the
> Kalends, which fell on the first day of the month;
the Nones, which
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



SPONSORED LINKS


Fall
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Fall+of+the
+roman+empire&c=1&s=30&.sig=_o5rQWqUgwZuR8ossa62Yg> of the roman empire



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "Nova-Roma
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38850 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
Ah, semantics...
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> The process continues: Gay is good, homosexual is
not. African/American is good, Negro is not, etc.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Bird
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:05 AM
> Subject: RE: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman
Trivia
>
>
> The trouble is, the word is not a "bad" word in
itself. It was in normal
> polite usage still (meaning "dirt") in the first
half of the 15th century.
> It was only prissyness and an ever-increasing
desire for euphemism that
> banished it to the Bad Word List. (cf. Chaucer's
Prologue to the Canterbury
> Tales).
>
> Sextus Pontius Pilatus Barbatus
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of raymond fuentes
> Sent: 05 November 2005 02:04
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman
Trivia
>
>
>
> Youre not out of the woods...that word is going to
> create a ****-storm HERE.Romans dont
cuss,remember?
> BTW,the Sabine story is way off-there was no
> raid...LOL
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > Salve Paulinus,
> >
> > Excellent post amice. It's a good thing it
wasn't on
> the Sodalitas Militarium list, it wouldn't have
been
> allowed there because of the one word (S) Cicero
liked
> to use. I, like Cicero got blunt on a post and was
> heavily chastised for it ;-) I still can't imagine
how
> a person can get truly informed about Rome without
> dealing with all of it, the distasteful as well as
the
> pleasant.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:53 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Fun Ancient Roman Trivia
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I got this interesting fun trivia from Mary on
the
> IR2 list from a
> > British site about Rome:
> >
> > When in Rome
> >
> > JONATHAN STAMP
> >
> >
> > A for AQUEDUCT. "Greater than the Pyramids"
was
> how the Roman
> > writer, Frontinus, described the water system
of
> ancient Rome, and
> > it was all based on aqueducts that brought
water
> into the city from
> > as far as 100km away. None of Rome's
extraordinary
> achievements
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38851 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salvete omnes,

Unfortunately, Yahoo doesn't allow non-members to view files. I invite all those who are interested to join the NR coins list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrcoins/

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
List Owner

"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@c...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete quirites,
>
> Anyone interested in seeing the proposed designs for the new coins may
> do so by going to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrcoins/ and
clicking on
> "Files" in the left side banner. The files section contains the
various
> designs that have been worked up for this project.
>
> The mailing list is open to anyone, and I think the posts are readable
> by anyone.
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus
>


One correction. The MESSAGES are open to all but the FILES are not.
The list owner can change this.

M. Lucr. Agricola





SPONSORED LINKS
Fall of the roman empire

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38852 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: NR Coinage
Salvete

Speaking of the Macellum page, I received my license to use the NR logo and have been added to the Equestrian Order but my site hasn't been listed. I know we had no webmaster for a while but now that we have a new one, could I please be added?

The site is www.harpax.biz

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
M. Lucretius Agricola C. Licinio Crasso S.P.D.

Welcome to Nova Roma. As I like to mention to new citizens, there are
many worthy projects within the NR community that seldom or never
appear on this, the "Main List". It is good to seek them out.

The SPQR/wreath is a copyright of Nova Roma and can only be used with
the Senate's permission.

Outside of the copyright question there are no constraints on creating
Roman style or Roman theme objects. Without the Senate's permisson it
is impossible to create official currency, of course.

Note that there is an equestrian order here to which merchant citizens
may belong who wish to do business within Rova Roma. (See the
"macellum" page). I personally wish that more citizens would be
involved there.

The "rudimentary knowledge" to which you refer is put into practice by
an active guild of minters within the SCA. They use hand methods,
often very traditional hand methods, to produce coins, but often in
very limited numbers.

In terms of technology, minting coins in authentic Roman fashion would
require a garage, a couple friends and a trip to a decent hardware
store. Plus, and this is probably the hardest part, real talent in
cutting dies by hand at actual scale. I've seen a lot of coins, and if
you get to hold the real thing in your hand, something from the Roman
mint, not provincial, not barbaric, not late, and not totally worn
down I assure you that if you think about what you are seeing, if you
know how it was made, you will be moved to tears. Their artistry,
sometimes derided by Hellenists I know, was simply awesome. Then when
you remember the scale of production, that these were made in the
millions, you will be humbled. Even with all modern advances some
macronations produce truly ugly coins. Romans made art, by hand,
massively, and used it as small change. And they did it for centuries.


If you visit the AntiquaNova web site and see Pavel Newman's videos
you will get a good idea of what was involved.
http://www.antiquanova.com/ Pavel makes wonderful coins.


Using modern techniques and commercial sources, it is easy to make
coin-like objects (jetons). Any number of companies are available for
you. If one starts now one could have a finished product in hand in
three weeks. To make coins that are beautiful and at a very low price
is another thing entirely. Plan on six months. Maybe longer.


Well, enough of this. If you (or anyone) have/has any questions, feel
free to contact me directly.


Optime vale!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
<g_licinius_crassus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve omnes,
>
> My knowledge of minting is nil, and my newness to NR
> excludes me from being in-the-know regarding our
> previous coinage, or the process in place to
> approve/diapprove such things. I do have a few
> questions, though, as this thread of discussion has
> come to the forefront.
>
> Regarding the NR 'logo'- the SPQR within a wreath- is
> this logo copyrighted in some way? If not, then does
> it not follow that anyone is free to use it with or
> without the Senate's approval?
>
> If a citizen, hypothetically speaking, were to mint
> his own coins would he not be free to offer those to
> the NR public as long as it was clear that these were
> not offered as an 'official' NR product? Does NR have
> the real-world legal authority to issue 'licenses' for
> products?
>
> The thought did strike me out of the blue that
> virtually anyone can mint coins, given whatever
> startup finances that would be required and a
> rudimentary knowledge of casting and metallurgy. But
> if one goes a low-tech route- eliminating fancy dies
> and and presses and exotic metal compounds and such-
> surely it can't be THAT bad.
>
> I ask these questions not to incur further antagonism
> over this subject, but to clarify the issue for myself
> as well as any others who may be new and/or previously
> 'out of the loop' on the subject.
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>







---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38853 From: lucius_fidelius Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Salve Licini Crasse,

> Salvete omnes,

> Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about- one of the great things of the ML is that
it's a open forum. Occasional message on nearly any topic is welcomed
here I think and your messages are no exception- it's always good to
hear from any sensible Nova Roman. The bigger picture remains that
what's permissible is not always appropriate in a forum made for
Roman and Roman history related topics. To any ML post, I would
ask "what about Roma?" and the more it can answer the more it's what
I subscribed for.

>>The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else was
PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was not
Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is important.

Whatever the message, my overall concern is against willful
distortions of it or of the surrounding history- as we didn't have
adequate explanation of Christian religion in the world and we
weren't in a history-related forum.

>> I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek Fire...

The above will have to suffice for today, amice.

Vale bene,

L. Fidelius Graecus

P.S. Last shameless advertising:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Christians where our slogan is "Anne
Rice would subscribe and so should you." LOL Now that's some Greek
Fire right there.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
<g_licinius_crassus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.
>
> >>The message of the Christ is what it is and only that, all else
was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if he was or was
not Divine, his message was what it was and that is what is
important.<<
>
> But that is the whole point- Christianity is based one the single
belief of Christ's divine origin! If you accepts the word of God
without believing Jesus was the literal 'son of God' then you
are...Jewish!
>
> Our friend Joe Schmoe could go around today preaching the very same
things, but the minute he says "I am the son of God" an awful lot of
people are going to want some proof. How much more so do we want some
sort of factual, contemporary- and unbiased- documentation of Jesus'
life. Think of it this way- if Jesus was on trial for claiming to be
the son of God, would there be enough hard evidence to conclude that
he was telling the truth? Or are we basing his defense on documents
of questionable provenance written years after the events they
purport to comment upon- and many of those being in direct conflict
with each others' accounts of the same events?
>
> In this particular facet of the discussion, I think you have it all
backwards. Yes, the message is important- but in this case the origin
of the messenger is the more important 'hot topic'. If Jesus is not
of divine origin, then he is merely another prophet- albeit a wise
one- in a long line of prophets.
>
> As I said in an off-board message recently, I have a much easier
time believing in something factual, rather than to just take things
on faith. This includes religion, politics, personal relationships,
or what have you. I suppose my attitude is "Show me".
>
> I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek Fire...
>
>
> Valete,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38854 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
How about that, Anne Rice is a holy roller now,huh? No
more Roman vampires? What a shame.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <nexus909@...>
wrote:
> Salve Licini Crasse,
>
> > Salvete omnes,
>
> > Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.
>
> Nothing to be sorry about- one of the great things
of the ML is that
> it's a open forum. Occasional message on nearly any
topic is welcomed
> here I think and your messages are no exception-
it's always good to
> hear from any sensible Nova Roman. The bigger
picture remains that
> what's permissible is not always appropriate in a
forum made for
> Roman and Roman history related topics. To any ML
post, I would
> ask "what about Roma?" and the more it can answer
the more it's what
> I subscribed for.
>
> >>The message of the Christ is what it is and only
that, all else was
> PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter if
he was or was not
> Divine, his message was what it was and that is what
is important.
>
> Whatever the message, my overall concern is against
willful
> distortions of it or of the surrounding history- as
we didn't have
> adequate explanation of Christian religion in the
world and we
> weren't in a history-related forum.
>
> >> I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek
Fire...
>
> The above will have to suffice for today, amice.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> L. Fidelius Graecus
>
> P.S. Last shameless advertising:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Christians where
our slogan is "Anne
> Rice would subscribe and so should you." LOL Now
that's some Greek
> Fire right there.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius
Crassus
> <g_licinius_crassus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.
> >
> > >>The message of the Christ is what it is and only
that, all else
> was PR to sell the message. It doesn't really matter
if he was or was
> not Divine, his message was what it was and that is
what is
> important.<<
> >
> > But that is the whole point- Christianity is based
one the single
> belief of Christ's divine origin! If you accepts the
word of God
> without believing Jesus was the literal 'son of God'
then you
> are...Jewish!
> >
> > Our friend Joe Schmoe could go around today
preaching the very same
> things, but the minute he says "I am the son of God"
an awful lot of
> people are going to want some proof. How much more
so do we want some
> sort of factual, contemporary- and unbiased-
documentation of Jesus'
> life. Think of it this way- if Jesus was on trial
for claiming to be
> the son of God, would there be enough hard evidence
to conclude that
> he was telling the truth? Or are we basing his
defense on documents
> of questionable provenance written years after the
events they
> purport to comment upon- and many of those being in
direct conflict
> with each others' accounts of the same events?
> >
> > In this particular facet of the discussion, I
think you have it all
> backwards. Yes, the message is important- but in
this case the origin
> of the messenger is the more important 'hot topic'.
If Jesus is not
> of divine origin, then he is merely another prophet-
albeit a wise
> one- in a long line of prophets.
> >
> > As I said in an off-board message recently, I have
a much easier
> time believing in something factual, rather than to
just take things
> on faith. This includes religion, politics, personal
relationships,
> or what have you. I suppose my attitude is "Show
me".
> >
> > I stand awaiting the replies loaded with Greek
Fire...
> >
> >
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38855 From: walkyr@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
In a message dated 11/6/2005 9:40:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:

How about that, Anne Rice is a holy roller now,huh? No
more Roman vampires? What a shame.



She's just written a rather obsessive "autobiography" of Jesus at age 7.
Perhaps the motto should be changed?

VRE

"Faber est suae quisque fortunae."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38856 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins and Aulus Sempronius Regulus et A. Apollonius Cor
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
I agree. I think the idea of a Nova Roma coin is a great idea. I only have
a few of the original coins, and I like the idea of coins being available.
If a group of private citizens are planning to do this, and they are going
to produce and market these coins then I am completely supportive. Let the
senate approve the design, when its submitted, and let the rest of us enjoy
the coins. No need for drama, no need for debate.
Coins are a good idea. I believe its something Nova Roma should do. I
applaud the efforts of those who have taken it upon themselves to do this
project on their own.
Valete;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/6/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
>
> Please Quirites! Novi Nova Roma coinage is a GOOD
> thing.Lets not allow legalities & Constitutional
> debate kill this thing.I know this is a good
> thing-PROGRESS!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38857 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Flauio Fidei quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
> I have seen citizens dismayed enough to leave after
> only weeks or chatisement by leadership or our in
> house professors.
>
> ATS: And then there are those of us who endure such remarks, and stick
> with it. However, I know of only one Œin house professor¹ who has chastised
> anyone for anything, and can¹t recall much in the way thereof by any of our
> leaders unless it was fully justified.
>
> Its online practice for trial
> attorneys
>
> ATS: Well, we do have a few of those among us...and there are plenty of
> arguments by non-attorneys here.
>
>
>
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
>> > When I first arrived here I was motivated & I was
> glad
>> > that I could finally scream out loud I am a Roman
> Not
>> > that I needed NR-Ive always felt I was a Roman.
>> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <annia@...>
>> > wrote:
>>> > > Salve,
>>> > >
>>> > > That's funny, cause I'm not playing a role. And if
>> > this is a game, where's
>>> > > my character sheet? Do I have to roll dice in
> order
>> > to participate? Where's
>>> > > the DM? When do I level up?
>>> > >
>>> > > Roleplaying game, indeed.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > >
>>> > > Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: "raymond fuentes" <praefectus2324@...>
>>> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>>> > > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:36 PM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins & the
>> > arrogance of scholars.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>> > > > This is why NR is a role playing game.When cives
>> > get
>>>> > > > involved they are ridiculed.The drawn out
> debates
>>>> > > > about historical accuracy begin until a new lex
>> > pops
>>>> > > > up.
>>>> > > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <wm_hogue@...>
>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>>> > > >> I have decided that you are right. I've
> withdrawn
>>>> > > > from this crackpot
>>>>> > > >> project. Sorry to have bothered you. Now I'll
>> > return
>>>> > > > to grading papers.
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
>> > QFabiusMaxmi@a...
>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > In a message dated 11/5/2005 3:03:14 AM
> Pacific
>>>> > > > Standard Time,
>>>>>> > > >> > wm_hogue@y... writes:
>>>>>> > > >> > since it has been
>>>>>> > > >> > mentioned here on many occasions since it was
>>>> > > > started, and since it
>>>>>> > > >> > was discussed fully at the Conventus I am
>> > somewhat
>>>> > > > surprised at some
>>>>>> > > >> > of the recent comments
>>>>>> > > >> > Well, gee, 2/3rds the Senate wasn't at the
>>>> > > > Conventus were they?
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > Perhaps why the Senate wasn't interested was
>>>> > > > because we at Nova Roma
>>>>> > > >> listen
>>>>>> > > >> > to 150 crackpot ideas every year. If you
> have
>>>> > > > tentative designs, I
>>>>> > > >> and other
>>>>>> > > >> > Senators want to see them. It'll save lot of
>> > time
>>>> > > > in the future if
>>>>> > > >> the Senate
>>>>>> > > >> > rejects the design, and demands another.
> Then
>> > you
>>>> > > > can be ahead of your
>>>>>> > > >> > production curve and not behind it.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > Q. Fabius Maximus
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
>>>> > > > removed]
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
> Valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
> __________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38858 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: presentation
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Tullio Malacitano quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, omnes!
>
> My name is Lucius Tullius Malacitanus. I was born in Flavia Malacita, the
> former Phoenithian colony of Malaka that became friend of Roman city
> before the punic wars. The city is near Carteia (Colonia Latia
> Libertorum), the first Roman colony outside italic land. It is on the
> south of Hispania, serveral stadium near former Punic military post of
> Qart Tima, on the coast of Mare Nostrum, between Gadir and Sexi.
>
> I asked for Roman citicenship several days ago, and I use this message to
> present myself to the Roman Civium and the Roman senate. I would also want
> to ask several questions that were not solved on the FAQ.
>
> First one; I filled the questionary on the web page. I have to do
> something more to ask the citicienship, or now is just to wait?
>
> ATS: Perhaps some information on the workings of the censorial Officina
> Approbationum is in order here. The mail to the censores¹ box isn¹t collected
> every day, but it is collected every few days by the censor or the rogatrix,
> the latter of whom has been away while caring for an elderly parent. The
> prospective citizens¹ names are then sent to a separate mailing list for
> approval by two Latinists, A. Apollonius Cordus, who deals primarily with the
> historicity of the names, and yours truly, who deals primarily with the
> Latinity and, if necessary, the correct Greek, of the names in question,
> though both of us deal with Latin morphology and historicity. When and if a
> fully correct Roman name has been selected, the prospective citizen is
> assigned to a scriba for processing. Since all of the scribae and everyone
> else here is a volunteer, it isn¹t always possible to attend to any given
> citizen¹s application the minute it lands in the scribal assignment group.
> Computer problems and real-life emergencies also enter into the picture, so
> patience is advised, even though it is no longer necessary to await the
> verdict of a pater or materfamilias of the entire gens, some of whom were
> effectively AWOL.
>
> I believe that your application was approved by the triage group, and sent
> on to the main censorial list for scribal assignment. This is normally done
> by the rogatrix, who, as noted above, has been away for valid family matters,
> but there is a duty roster for this, and a scriba should have been assigned to
> your case. Since your name is correct Latin, it should not be long before you
> are accepted. No, you don¹t have to do anything else‹just wait.
>
>
> Second one, digging on the history, I have found that several other gens
> are more related with historical Roman Hispaniae than Tullius. As far as
> It looks that my citienship request has not been processed, Do I fill
> again the web formulary whith the trinomem of Lucius Cornelius
> Malacitanus, or you take it into account when you process the citienship.
>
> ATS: If you want to change your nomen, or gens-name, you should inform
> the censores. It¹s easy enough at this stage‹but Tullia is a nice gens...
>
> If you make a second application, one or the other will be denied‹if not
> both.
>
> Yours:
>
> Lucius
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Scriba Censoris Gn. Equiti Marini
>
>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38859 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
In our new sensitive America the term Merry Christmas
has fallen prey to the more tolerantHappy Holidays.
Now we wouldnt want to offend anyone,would we?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I have a novel analogy in this ongoing discussion.
The U. S. Constitution was written by consensus a
little over two hundred years ago. Many other
documents exist that were written at the same time by
the authors of it. The Federalist papers as well as
many or the correspondences of Jefferson, Madison,
Hamilton, Adams etc. still in existence further
explain their thoughts on this document. Yet we are
still debating exactly what it says and there are many
ways of interpreting it. Our NR Constitution was also
the basis for quite a debate this past summer for more
than a short while, and that is only a few years old.
>
> Yet because a "faith" (i.e. a particular religious
institution) demands total conformity to a certain
tradition we are expected to believe everything that
was codified in the Fourth Century as the absolute
truth and nothing but the final truth on the subject
or not be considered Christians? This is what is
confirmed every time the Nicean Creed is recited! What
Bull !!! Kool-Aid anyone?
>
> My youngest daughter believes in Santa Clause and
she is given evidence of his "existence" every
December 25th. Many of us too at one time also
believed this fabrication. Now that we know otherwise,
does it take away from the joy of giving and receiving
we experience during this great holiday. There is also
no doubt about the fact that this holiday was co-opted
by the Church from the Pagan Saturnalia and the Feast
of the Birthday of Mithros. Another fabrication by the
church. How many proven fabrications have to be
mounted before a person starts to separate the message
(which is authentic) from the misinformation about the
messenger.
>
> Confucius is another "religious" messenger figure
highly misunderstood. He actually and emphatically
stated that he did not want to be "worshipped" after
his death. Yet that is precisely what happened - once
again human nature being what it is - always misses
the moon by concentrating on the finger.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Okay, I have to weigh in on this again. Sorry.
>
> >>The message of the Christ is what it is and only
that, all else was PR to sell the message. It doesn't
really matter if he was or was not Divine, his message
was what it was and that is what is important.<<
>
>
>
> But that is the whole point- Christianity is based
one the single belief of Christ's divine origin! If
you accepts the word of God without believing Jesus
was the literal 'son of God' then you are...Jewish!
>
>
>
> Our friend Joe Schmoe could go around today
preaching the very same things, but the minute he says
"I am the son of God" an awful lot of people are going
to want some proof. How much more so do we want some
sort of factual, contemporary- and unbiased-
documentation of Jesus' life. Think of it this way- if
Jesus was on trial for claiming to be the son of God,
would there be enough hard evidence to conclude that
he was telling the truth? Or are we basing his defense
on documents of questionable provenance written years
after the events they purport to comment upon- and
many of those being in direct conflict with each
others' accounts of the same events?
>
>
>
> In this particular facet of the discussion, I
think you have it all backwards. Yes, the message is
important- but in this case the origin of the
messenger is the more important 'hot topic'. If Jesus
is not of divine origin, then he is merely another
prophet- albeit a wise one- in a long line of
prophets.
>
>
>
> As I said in an off-board message recently, I have
a much easier time believing in something factual,
rather than to just take things on faith. This
includes religion, politics, personal relationships,
or what have you. I suppose my attitude is "Show me".
>
>
>
> I stand awaiting
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38860 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/6/2005 3:03:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
annia@... writes:
I think you're over dramatizing the discussion a bit. Life or death?
hehe. But I applaud you on your use of sarcasm.
But of course. The only way you CAN get your point across here is with
overblown rhetoric. Otherwise you just disappear into the buzz.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38861 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
What interviews there have been show so far it is unco-ordinated and
multi-ethnic gangs trying to outdo each other's violence more to fight than to
combine. Though it is only a matter of time for somebody to claim them as
religious insurgency. The situation in Marseilles is slightly different but
still not equivalent to what jihadists would like. There, they believe
themselves denied equal rights as French citizens, wshich may well be the case.
So far the separatist jihadist excuse has not surfaced and is probably much less
evident in France than Britain and US owing to different peoples with a
different colonial background. Many of the French share with British Afro-Asians
that they came there because they prefered colonial rule (or the natives kicked
them out) and feel they have been let down by still being seen as colonials.
Caesariensis





Salve omnes,

I do not know the full back-story on the Paris riots;
however, whatever the politico-religious reason given
for them are meaningless. Rioting, in and of itself,
is still a criminal act and as such the rioters need
to be dealt with just as any other vandals (my apology
to the Vandal tribesmen out there). For a State to
quell rioting is not a Fascist act- no more than it is
a Communist act, or a Democratic act, or what have
you. Quelling a riot is simply a matter of the State
enforcing its own laws and restoring order to the
streets. I am sure the ancient Romans would have had
no second thoughts about putting down a riot- and they
would have done it without even thinking about trials
and jail time. You see a rioter- put him to the sword;
how simple is that? Obviously that tactic wouldn't
work today, but you see my point. Deal with them-
don't just let them ruin a city.

I vote for sending in the troops to clear the streets
of Paris and making them beautiful again.

Unfortunately I deleted the message, but I did see a
post from a member who lives in Paris. To you I send
my regards and wishes for a safe city for you; I hope
you are not in any personal danger from this unrest. I
had the good fortune to visit Paris many years ago
while stationed in Germany in the US Army. My stay was
not nearly as long as I would have liked; I hope to be
able to return one day.

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com








SPONSORED LINKS
Fall of the romanempire





YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on theweb.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










"Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38862 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:49:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
The senate will be presented with a proposal for its
approval or rejection not because of your incoherent
grumbling but because that has been our intention
since the project began, as you would have known if
you took the slightest trouble to acquaint yourself
with what goes on in this republic. You have done
nothing here but cover yourself with shame and
embarrassment, senator, and I only hope that it does
not reflect badly on your august colleagues.
Hmm? So once again if I understand you correctly, the burden of discovery
was on the
Senate, and not the holders of the franchise.
I don't think so. The Senate never awarded any private citizen a franchise
to mint coins,
but as you say, I have the attention span of gnat so perhaps I forgot to
vote, missed a meeting or the Gods forbid, blocked the progress of the proposed
franchise.

If I remember correctly, (sorry my feeble brain) some well meaning citizens
made an announcement about issuing a new run of Cassian coinage. When the
report was back that the old dies were destroyed, someone wanted to do new ones.
We even had coin collector make a very compelling argument why this would be
good for Nova Roma.
I thought at the time the Senate "adopted a wait and see" attitude. We never
formally put the Senate approval on any design, nor did we say that any
package would receive auto approval, since that seems to be the why a "package"
would be presented to the Senate. Here we have you, Apollonius, a champion of
Roman procedure, ignoring it. And to say the Senate should not be involved in
this thing because we are "too slow" well, I'm speechless...

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38863 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
No more than I support their Christian equivalents shooting abortionists or
for that matter murdering Hypatia for knowing too much. What I am getting at is
that apart from absolute madmen like the Taliban, the 'acceptable' face of
religiously extreme Islam keeps out of science and generally has done. It is not
trying to preach 'Creation' or close universities down. Quite the contrary, it
wants to show the West that its religion sets higher ethical standards without
interfering with actual research knowledge. Historically, Christianity has made
an appalling blunder by using the bible as science and therefore making itself
look ridiculous. If your religion requires you to deny observed evidence, you
chuck the baby that was supposed to matter out with that grubby bathwater and
end up excusing inhuman acts by claiming morality comes from the same
superstition that threatened Galileo with torture for admitting the earth
circled the sun.
Christianity has inherited a negative Gnostic view that things material
detract from things spiritual. Islam worked on 'to know creation is to know the
creator'. Worldwide, people like being told what to do and given the choice
between a disciplined educated society and an ignorant materialistic one, choose
the former. The 'scum' you refer to have a very warped idea of their own
religion, as most Imams point out. But had they been born in parts of the USA
they would be thinking exactly the same way waving a Bible (or at least Genesis)
instead of a Qur'an. They are really more cultists than true relious devotees.
The difference - and very dangerous difference - is that extremist Christianity
requires scientific ignorance while extremist Islam does not. There are many
things I don't like about Islam, just not as many as I dislike about
Christianity. To anyone in the 3rd world, Iran in particular is quite
deliberately contrasting its modern educated religiously oppressive society with
the hypocrisy that comes out of praying for the poor to cut taxes on the rich
and treat ancient myth in the most literal simplistic interpretation as more
important than human compassion or reverence for 'creation'.

Am I to believe that you support or condone these
Islamo-facist scum? PLEASE correct me if I am wrong!
Look at Paris right now, please.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
> I'd think it absolutely essential! The business of
science is to explain the
> physical world on its own terms. The business of
religion is about transcendent
> experience and relationship, probably morality,
though not all religions are
> moralistic. To treat religious writ as a science or
even history manual reduces
> it to what genuine research either confirms - so
religion is superfluous - or
> refutes - so religion is wrong and thereby lays
itself open to accusation of
> being wrong in other respects too. This is just
what the Western church has
> done, concentrating so much on opposing science that
would discredit beliefs
> irrelevent to religious understanding that it has
instead discredited itself
> and all that was good about it.
> If you look carefully, it is a mistake militant
Islam is /not/ making. That is
> whay in the long run, it has a greater appeal than
Christianity (and
> historically always has had). Allah concerns himself
with ethics, not geology.
> It is a pity of course that they can't be quite as
open about their own history.
> The next century may see American kids taught the
flat Earth was created 6,000
> years ago so no star can be more than 6,000 light
years away. Tehran and Riyadh
> will still be able to rival the best 'infidel'
universities. They do already.
> Caesariensis
> >



"Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38864 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
In a message dated 11/6/2005 2:03:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
me-in-@... writes:
Historically, Christianity has made an appalling blunder by using the bible
as science and therefore making itself look ridiculous. If your religion
requires you to deny observed evidence, you chuck the baby that was supposed to
matter out with that grubby bathwater and end up excusing inhuman acts by
claiming morality comes from the same superstition that threatened Galileo with
torture for admitting the earth circled the sun.
It is always about power. If you admit you were wrong about one thing, then
perhaps you were wrong about other things. Doubt removes control. Remember
what Einstein said.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38865 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
I'm sure others mis-take our posts, even if our posts are not 'mistaken' :) I
didn't know that about Lao Tzu. I do admit that reading works like that, even
allowing for the problems of translating a 'generic' language like Chinese
leaves me feeling I've been trying to hold clouds. I'm never sure whether it is
so meaningful I've missed something or so meaningless it could mean anything.
Unfortunately, I expect Master Lao would be the first to raise a delighted laugh
at such a thought!
As for the rest, everybody of course has their cosmology though Islam can
cheat a bit since only the Koran is allegedly dictated by God, so the rest can
be attributed to human error ion transmissin. I'll just add this thoug which I
found intriguing. I see 'Creation' as the continuous process of interpreting
energy into material form or the constant emanation/coalescence of
'no-thingness' which is not quite the same as 'nothingness'. Even scientists now
speak of 'plenum-void' direct from Hermes Trimegistos and Gnostic works (as
well as Buddhist).
I have read a fascinating reconciliation of science and creationism from a
professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. It's worth remembering that
Fred Hoyle gave 'Big Bang' its name dismissing it as "Genesis disguised as
science" because he believed in continuous creation. I suspect some truth in
both - that is usually the case.
The explanation of creation is complicated, relying on Einsteinian time
dilation. Jewish scholars are agreed that 'day' in the text means 24 hours.
However, there is only ONE act of creation, not recognisable in the English.
"God said 'Exist light' and light existed". Thereafter come various 'and there
was' 'brought forth according to its own manner' and so on. I'll say straight
off that for my money, it is more likely to show the ancients inherited a
scientific knowledge they no longer understood than that they had access to a
creator's diary, who in any case could not be a Supreme Existence. 'Creation' in
my view is the interpretation of the energetic background into successive
degrees of materiality.
As Hoyle said, the difference between one creation e nihilo and another may
depend on reasons assumed but doesn't affect the description. 'Light' we may
call scientifically 'undefined electro-magnetic energy' without really making
ourselves any the wiser. Scientifically, the Cosmos would be a point Black Hole
of near infinite density and gravity. Relativity says that processes would
therefore run almost infinitely slow compared to our experience. ('Time slows
down' - not an expression I like; a better one is to assume Time a subjective
experience of change).
As the Cosmos expands, so 'Time speeds up' compared to its original value.
Therefore, the first day measured in terms of the first instant when it becomes
possible to measure anything, lasts for billions of years by present
measurement. Light separates from dark (shades of the divine brothers Ahura
Mazda and Angra Mainya!) when some unformed energy coalesces into matter.
Thereafter come successively shorter periods of solid formation, life and so on,
'each according to its own kind'. So we roughly get, not as the English
suggests, sun and moon 'created' after Earth but 'becoming visible', correctly
that it would take geological ages of rain producing oceans for the primaeval
sky to clear. A recent Scientific American says this may have happened faster
and earlier than we used to think.
Science has a habit of going back on itself: I grew up when theory that the
Moon was knocked off the Earth leaving the Pacific was discreditted for a double
planet or a capture. It is now back in fashion that something knocked the Moon
out of Earth, even if it didn't leave the Pacific.
The only similar 'creation' comes when God 'breathes life' into Adam ('Dom:
Earth) which by Jewish tradition happened in Adam's 20th year.
I think it straining to fit what fits and ignore the rest as poetic infilling.
Apparantly one creature has the distinction of being classed as both reptile
and bird. But it is interesting and since the second creation account comes
much closer to what might be expected from people working out how it could have
happened, it has a logic of complexity of form restricting infinity of
potential. Why Jews should have revelatory access to information their
predecessors did not, I cannot imagine. I see no reason others before them
should not, even if they added fanciful additions to it.






Salve Caesariensis,

Most religions as well as cultures, including Islam have their own cosmology.You
are correct though, they should not be confused with science, yet some ofthe
most brilliant scientists were also quite driven by their religiousbeliefs and
used their science to "explain" what their religionhinted at but could not
adequately explain. The Greek philosophers were ofvery much cut out of this
cloth as was Einstein.

FYI: If the tradition can be believed, Lao Tsu was not allowed to retire
hisgovernment post and leave the kingdom to go into obscurity as he desired
untilhe wrote those 5,000 words amice. The implication here is that he was
forcedto in order to live his life the way he wanted to. His work Dao De Jing
isprobably one of the most misunderstood pieces of "religious"literature ever
written. Perhaps our posts are too?

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus




"Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38866 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
It is always about power. If you admit you werewrong about one thing, then
perhaps you were wrong about otherthings. Doubt removes control. Remember
what Einsteinsaid.

Q. Fabius Maximus

Yes. It was even said at the time - and I'm not quite sure when the time
was but very early on - that the moment the Pope started to lay down what
Christian belief was in detail, he split the church. This is where ancient
Judaeism and Islam score because they care much more about doing than
believing. Once you start taking metaphysics in literal physical terms you
make a monkey of it and yourself. The Emperors had control, the Popes invented
it (Donation of Constantine).
Obviously there has to be belief in the reason for the doing but not in
minor details. I don't posssess one, but actually the Koran preserves ancient
Christian views stifled elsewhere - for instance, "Jesus did not die upon the
cross, another took his place".



"Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38867 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salvet A. Tullia Scholastica et salvete omnes,

One thing to bear in mind is that we are all here in part to absorb
the better customs and philosophies of ancient Rome. Some of their
philosophy and vitues was the Stoic approach which helped one endure
tough or unpleasant situations both physically and mentally and
shake it off like water off a duck's back. Maybe, hard as it is, it
would be a good idea for NR citizens to stive to master a little of
this Stoicism. Remember that quote by Marcus Aurelius that says
begin each day by teeling yourself I'll be facing ingratitude,
insolence, intolerance etc...

As mentioned there are citizens who get a rebuff or rude,
insensitive comment and leave immediately, yet there are others I
could name both high and lower in NR and the Civil service who,
whether you like, agree with or dislike, got raked over the coals
but stuck to their guns, fought for their beliefs like tenacious
junk yard dogs and hey, they are still with us! Something to think
about isn't it?

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@l...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Flauio Fidei quiritibus, sociis,
peregrinisque
> > omnibus S.P.D.
> >
> > I have seen citizens dismayed enough to leave after
> > only weeks or chatisement by leadership or our in
> > house professors.
> >
> > ATS: And then there are those of us who endure such
remarks, and stick
> > with it. However, I know of only one Œin house professor¹ who
has chastised
> > anyone for anything, and can¹t recall much in the way thereof by
any of our
> > leaders unless it was fully justified.
> >
> > Its online practice for trial
> > attorneys
> >
> > ATS: Well, we do have a few of those among us...and there
are plenty of
> > arguments by non-attorneys here.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >> > When I first arrived here I was motivated & I was
> > glad
> >> > that I could finally scream out loud I am a Roman
> > Not
> >> > that I needed NR-Ive always felt I was a Roman.
> >> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <annia@c...>
> >> > wrote:
> >>> > > Salve,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > That's funny, cause I'm not playing a role. And if
> >> > this is a game, where's
> >>> > > my character sheet? Do I have to roll dice in
> > order
> >> > to participate? Where's
> >>> > > the DM? When do I level up?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Roleplaying game, indeed.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Vale,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > > From: "raymond fuentes" <praefectus2324@y...>
> >>> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> >>> > > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:36 PM
> >>> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins & the
> >> > arrogance of scholars.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > This is why NR is a role playing game.When cives
> >> > get
> >>>> > > > involved they are ridiculed.The drawn out
> > debates
> >>>> > > > about historical accuracy begin until a new lex
> >> > pops
> >>>> > > > up.
> >>>> > > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <wm_hogue@y...>
> >>>> > > > wrote:
> >>>>> > > >> I have decided that you are right. I've
> > withdrawn
> >>>> > > > from this crackpot
> >>>>> > > >> project. Sorry to have bothered you. Now I'll
> >> > return
> >>>> > > > to grading papers.
> >>>>> > > >>
> >>>>> > > >>
> >>>>> > > >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> >> > QFabiusMaxmi@a...
> >>>> > > > wrote:
> >>>>>> > > >> >
> >>>>>> > > >> > In a message dated 11/5/2005 3:03:14 AM
> > Pacific
> >>>> > > > Standard Time,
> >>>>>> > > >> > wm_hogue@y... writes:
> >>>>>> > > >> > since it has been
> >>>>>> > > >> > mentioned here on many occasions since it was
> >>>> > > > started, and since it
> >>>>>> > > >> > was discussed fully at the Conventus I am
> >> > somewhat
> >>>> > > > surprised at some
> >>>>>> > > >> > of the recent comments
> >>>>>> > > >> > Well, gee, 2/3rds the Senate wasn't at the
> >>>> > > > Conventus were they?
> >>>>>> > > >> >
> >>>>>> > > >> > Perhaps why the Senate wasn't interested was
> >>>> > > > because we at Nova Roma
> >>>>> > > >> listen
> >>>>>> > > >> > to 150 crackpot ideas every year. If you
> > have
> >>>> > > > tentative designs, I
> >>>>> > > >> and other
> >>>>>> > > >> > Senators want to see them. It'll save lot of
> >> > time
> >>>> > > > in the future if
> >>>>> > > >> the Senate
> >>>>>> > > >> > rejects the design, and demands another.
> > Then
> >> > you
> >>>> > > > can be ahead of your
> >>>>>> > > >> > production curve and not behind it.
> >>>>>> > > >> >
> >>>>>> > > >> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> >>>>>> > > >> >
> >>>>>> > > >> >
> >>>>>> > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> >>>> > > > removed]
> > === Message Truncated ===
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38868 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
See, this is what gets me.If you are in a host nation
you assimilate & become a productive citizen.You dont
enter illegally then DEMAND equality & Riot!Wow.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <me-in-@...>
wrote:
> What interviews there have been show so far it is
unco-ordinated and
> multi-ethnic gangs trying to outdo each other's
violence more to fight than to
> combine. Though it is only a matter of time for
somebody to claim them as
> religious insurgency. The situation in Marseilles is
slightly different but
> still not equivalent to what jihadists would like.
There, they believe
> themselves denied equal rights as French citizens,
wshich may well be the case.
> So far the separatist jihadist excuse has not
surfaced and is probably much less
> evident in France than Britain and US owing to
different peoples with a
> different colonial background. Many of the French
share with British Afro-Asians
> that they came there because they prefered colonial
rule (or the natives kicked
> them out) and feel they have been let down by still
being seen as colonials.
> Caesariensis
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve omnes,
>
> I do not know the full back-story on the Paris
riots;
> however, whatever the politico-religious reason
given
> for them are meaningless. Rioting, in and of itself,
> is still a criminal act and as such the rioters need
> to be dealt with just as any other vandals (my
apology
> to the Vandal tribesmen out there). For a State to
> quell rioting is not a Fascist act- no more than it
is
> a Communist act, or a Democratic act, or what have
> you. Quelling a riot is simply a matter of the State
> enforcing its own laws and restoring order to the
> streets. I am sure the ancient Romans would have had
> no second thoughts about putting down a riot- and
they
> would have done it without even thinking about
trials
> and jail time. You see a rioter- put him to the
sword;
> how simple is that? Obviously that tactic wouldn't
> work today, but you see my point. Deal with them-
> don't just let them ruin a city.
>
> I vote for sending in the troops to clear the
streets
> of Paris and making them beautiful again.
>
> Unfortunately I deleted the message, but I did see a
> post from a member who lives in Paris. To you I send
> my regards and wishes for a safe city for you; I
hope
> you are not in any personal danger from this unrest.
I
> had the good fortune to visit Paris many years ago
> while stationed in Germany in the US Army. My stay
was
> not nearly as long as I would have liked; I hope to
be
> able to return one day.
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Fall
of the romanempire
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on theweb.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38869 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
My friend, you seem a tad one sided on this.I believe
religions are inherently benevolent.People make them
bad.Can we agree MOST terrorists claim ISLAM?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <me-in-@...>
wrote:
> It is always about power. If you admit you
werewrong about one thing, then
> perhaps you were wrong about otherthings. Doubt
removes control. Remember
> what Einsteinsaid.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> Yes. It was even said at the time - and I'm not
quite sure when the time
> was but very early on - that the moment the Pope
started to lay down what
> Christian belief was in detail, he split the church.
This is where ancient
> Judaeism and Islam score because they care much more
about doing than
> believing. Once you start taking metaphysics in
literal physical terms you
> make a monkey of it and yourself. The Emperors had
control, the Popes invented
> it (Donation of Constantine).
> Obviously there has to be belief in the reason
for the doing but not in
> minor details. I don't posssess one, but actually
the Koran preserves ancient
> Christian views stifled elsewhere - for instance,
"Jesus did not die upon the
> cross, another took his place".
>
>
>
> "Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38870 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
I don't think there's much doubt about that at the moment. 100 years ago we
could probably say most terrorists were atheist or anarchist. The important
factors are feeling dispossessed on the grand scale I suppose. Personal;ly, I
think if Ilam doesn't get itself together the terrorists will soon be coming
'home' - have been events in Riyadh and Mecca already

My friend, you seem a tad one sided on this.I believe
religions are inherently benevolent.People make them
bad.Can we agree MOST terrorists claim ISLAM?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
> It is always about power. If you admit you
werewrong about one thing, then
> perhaps you were wrong about otherthings. Doubt
removes control. Remember
> what Einsteinsaid.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> Yes. It was even said at the time - and I'mnot
quite sure when the time
> was but very early on - that the moment the Pope
started to lay down what
> Christian belief was in detail, he split the church.
This is where ancient
> Judaeism and Islam score because they care much more
about doing than
> believing. Once you start taking metaphysics in
literal physical terms you
> make a monkey of it and yourself. The Emperors had
control, the Popes invented
> it (Donation of Constantine).
> Obviously there has to be belief in the reason
for the doing but not in
> minor details. I don't posssess one, but actually
the Koran preserves ancient
> Christian views stifled elsewhere - for instance,
"Jesus did not die upon the
> cross, another took his place".




"God created man and man created God. So is it in the world. Men make
gods and they worship their creations. If would be fitting for the gods to
worship men" - Gospel of Thomas, Logion 85:1-4



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38871 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Commentary on Paris Rioting
Salvete bene,

I must disagree with Caesarensis on the riots in France (Gallia). I
am myself from this country and province, and feel concerned about
it. There is, so far, no evident and direct connection to
fundamentalist muslims. The police has found that some
fundamentalist groups back the riots, but not officially and not on
the front line, while others try to quiet the situation down. None
of the youth in the streets has claimed to protest in the name of a
religion. It may be possible though, that some of the youth claim
religion as an identity against the French state that failed to
integrate them.

As far as counter-insurgency measures are concerned, I agree that it
is not enough. There ought to be a curfew in all hit areas; anyone
found out during the curfew should be arrested and jailed immediatly
as a potential rioter; the police ought to be given more power to
quell the riots, including the right to shoot if an officer is
DEEMED threatened by rioters.

In parallel, there must be a real roadmap concerning the suburbs: a
plan, will and funds to end the terrible situation that strikes
those areas.

Valete bene

T.Afr.Sec. Flamininus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38872 From: Stefanie Beer Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Salvete!
Why is this "off topic"? As far as I know this list serves as our "Forum
Romanum" a place where all Roman citizens and visitors meet and talk about
everything. I am quite sure that on the original forum there were folks
discussing politics, scandals, the best address to buy cloth or wine, the
latest games or races, their next neighbour´s broken leg or marriage
problems - in short everything that is discussed everywhere when people meet

This is why I don´t think the Paris situation is off topic.
(Plus the fact that I´m very interested in what goes on where - some might
call it nosey, other typically female;-))
Valete optime!
Lucia Flavia Lectrix

-------Originalmeldung-------

Von: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Datum: 11/06/05 10:53:07
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)

Salvete,

this is an off-topic talk; however I am more than willing to explain
privately what is
going on in Paris. I live there.

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

--- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:

> Too much tolerance can be deadly. Just look at the
> problems in Germany,the American
> southwest,France,SPAIN,etc.For fear of a facist label
> the WEST dones nil.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > These riots would be nothing new to the Romans;
> check out about riots
> > in Roman Alexandria. I'm sure they found that whole
> middle east and its
> > provincials a real pest hole at times.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>




__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38873 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
Salvete omnes,

For one of the best explanations I have ever read about creation and cosmology:

Stalking The Wild Pendulum
By Itzhak Bentov
ISBN 0-89281-202-8

This is rally a WOW book from a little known scientific genius.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pilate and Jesus


I'm sure others mis-take our posts, even if our posts are not 'mistaken' :) I
didn't know that about Lao Tzu. I do admit that reading works like that, even
allowing for the problems of translating a 'generic' language like Chinese
leaves me feeling I've been trying to hold clouds. I'm never sure whether it is
so meaningful I've missed something or so meaningless it could mean anything.
Unfortunately, I expect Master Lao would be the first to raise a delighted laugh
at such a thought!
As for the rest, everybody of course has their cosmology though Islam can
cheat a bit since only the Koran is allegedly dictated by God, so the rest can
be attributed to human error ion transmissin. I'll just add this thoug which I
found intriguing. I see 'Creation' as the continuous process of interpreting
energy into material form or the constant emanation/coalescence of
'no-thingness' which is not quite the same as 'nothingness'. Even scientists now
speak of 'plenum-void' direct from Hermes Trimegistos and Gnostic works (as
well as Buddhist).
I have read a fascinating reconciliation of science and creationism from a
professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. It's worth remembering that
Fred Hoyle gave 'Big Bang' its name dismissing it as "Genesis disguised as
science" because he believed in continuous creation. I suspect some truth in
both - that is usually the case.
The explanation of creation is complicated, relying on Einsteinian time
dilation. Jewish scholars are agreed that 'day' in the text means 24 hours.
However, there is only ONE act of creation, not recognisable in the English.
"God said 'Exist light' and light existed". Thereafter come various 'and there
was' 'brought forth according to its own manner' and so on. I'll say straight
off that for my money, it is more likely to show the ancients inherited a
scientific knowledge they no longer understood than that they had access to a
creator's diary, who in any case could not be a Supreme Existence. 'Creation' in
my view is the interpretation of the energetic background into successive
degrees of materiality.
As Hoyle said, the difference between one creation e nihilo and another may
depend on reasons assumed but doesn't affect the description. 'Light' we may
call scientifically 'undefined electro-magnetic energy' without really making
ourselves any the wiser. Scientifically, the Cosmos would be a point Black Hole
of near infinite density and gravity. Relativity says that processes would
therefore run almost infinitely slow compared to our experience. ('Time slows
down' - not an expression I like; a better one is to assume Time a subjective
experience of change).
As the Cosmos expands, so 'Time speeds up' compared to its original value.
Therefore, the first day measured in terms of the first instant when it becomes
possible to measure anything, lasts for billions of years by present
measurement. Light separates from dark (shades of the divine brothers Ahura
Mazda and Angra Mainya!) when some unformed energy coalesces into matter.
Thereafter come successively shorter periods of solid formation, life and so on,
'each according to its own kind'. So we roughly get, not as the English
suggests, sun and moon 'created' after Earth but 'becoming visible', correctly
that it would take geological ages of rain producing oceans for the primaeval
sky to clear. A recent Scientific American says this may have happened faster
and earlier than we used to think.
Science has a habit of going back on itself: I grew up when theory that the
Moon was knocked off the Earth leaving the Pacific was discreditted for a double
planet or a capture. It is now back in fashion that something knocked the Moon
out of Earth, even if it didn't leave the Pacific.
The only similar 'creation' comes when God 'breathes life' into Adam ('Dom:
Earth) which by Jewish tradition happened in Adam's 20th year.
I think it straining to fit what fits and ignore the rest as poetic infilling.
Apparantly one creature has the distinction of being classed as both reptile
and bird. But it is interesting and since the second creation account comes
much closer to what might be expected from people working out how it could have
happened, it has a logic of complexity of form restricting infinity of
potential. Why Jews should have revelatory access to information their
predecessors did not, I cannot imagine. I see no reason others before them
should not, even if they added fanciful additions to it.






Salve Caesariensis,

Most religions as well as cultures, including Islam have their own cosmology.You
are correct though, they should not be confused with science, yet some ofthe
most brilliant scientists were also quite driven by their religiousbeliefs and
used their science to "explain" what their religionhinted at but could not
adequately explain. The Greek philosophers were ofvery much cut out of this
cloth as was Einstein.

FYI: If the tradition can be believed, Lao Tsu was not allowed to retire
hisgovernment post and leave the kingdom to go into obscurity as he desired
untilhe wrote those 5,000 words amice. The implication here is that he was
forcedto in order to live his life the way he wanted to. His work Dao De Jing
isprobably one of the most misunderstood pieces of "religious"literature ever
written. Perhaps our posts are too?

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus




"Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38874 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salvete, quirites -

On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 01:59:06AM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/5/2005 2:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> mlcinnyc@... writes:
> I apologize for the intemperate tone of this post, but frankly I am
> pretty disappointed that someone would suddenly jump in, after showing
> no interest and offering no help whatsoever, with this nonsense.
> Ok, so let me get this straight: Our last coin had the NR logo on it while
> this one won't?
>
> What's it going to say: "Rome Rules?"
>
> And for your info Cato the Clueless I did contact the first organizer, and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Y'know, there's a very good reason for you losing the last election -
and there weren't even any hanging chads you could blame it on. It's the
reason that you will keep on losing, as long as Nova Roma has sensible
people in it.

Your "contributions" to Nova Roma have included actionable threats of
violence, replies like this one to people who are polite to you
_despite_ all your history here in NR, your unsupported boasting... you
and the rest of your Boni buddies - pardon me, The Organization Formerly
Known As Boni - have shown your colors often enough.

Show us that you've done something useful yourself, instead of trying to
undermine those who *are* doing something, or get out of the road.

> I would like to look at the designs. I believe so would some other Senators.
> I don't think that's too much to ask at this point.

I note that none of the other senators have said anything in that regard
on this list - presumably because those who are actually interested
(instead of being interested in showing their power to prevent and
destroy) contacted the group and got the information they needed.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Primum est non nocere.
First of all, do no harm.
-- Hippocrates; The maxim has become an ethical guiding principle in medicine.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38875 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Corvinian Sovreignty
Salve, G Licinius Crassus; salvete, omnes.

On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 02:21:21AM -0800, Gaius Licinius Crassus wrote:
> Salve omnes,
>
> Ahhh at last- we are getting dangerously close to
> having to invoke Godwin's Law on this post!
>
> >> Not that I find merit in it, but I fear you have
> forgotten that the imagination of one man spurred what
> I dare call one of the worst, if not the worst,
> genocide of the Twentieth Century, and perhaps all
> time, lest the atrocities committed by members of the
> Nazi party be left to oblivion! <<
>
> The joys of online deebate!

No need to invoke it; it's just a statement of fact, which has proven
itself yet again. As to the associated tradition, it's self-invoking -
and its conclusion is still valid. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.
What Jupiter may do, the ox may not.
(I.e., what is permitted for a high-ranking person isn't permitted for everybody.
Cf. aliis si licet, tibi non licet..)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38876 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 04:20:13PM -0500, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/2005 3:03:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> annia@... writes:
> I think you're over dramatizing the discussion a bit. Life or death?
> hehe. But I applaud you on your use of sarcasm.
> But of course. The only way you CAN get your point across here is with
> overblown rhetoric. Otherwise you just disappear into the buzz.

Ah. Thanks for letting us know.

Clearly, the thing to do is to discount your words by some large amount
- I'd suggest 99% for a start, with additions for every "very", every
usage of CAPITALS, and every instance of "I'm a senator, so I'm really
really important!!!" - in order to bring them to normal, human scale.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Saepe creat molles aspera spina rosas.
Often the prickly thorn produces tender roses
-- Ovid
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38877 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Pictures in the Album Civium
Salvete, quirites:

Those who would like to have their pictures posted in the Album Civium
(i.e., as part of their profiles), please email them to me along with
your Roman name. In fact, if you name the files with your Roman name
delimited by periods - i.e.,

Caius.Minucius-Tiberius.Scaevola.jpg

- then there's no chance for them to get misplaced (and it makes my
work easier, too, since that's the naming convention we use on the
website anyway. :)


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Melius frangi quam flecti.
It is better to break than to bend.
-- N/A
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38878 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pictures in the Album Civium
Are there any size or format restrictions we should know about? What
is the optimal size?




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@l...> wrote:
>
> Salvete, quirites:
>
> Those who would like to have their pictures posted in the Album Civium
> (i.e., as part of their profiles), please email them to me along with
> your Roman name. In fact, if you name the files with your Roman name
> delimited by periods - i.e.,
>
> Caius.Minucius-Tiberius.Scaevola.jpg
>
> - then there's no chance for them to get misplaced (and it makes my
> work easier, too, since that's the naming convention we use on the
> website anyway. :)
>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Melius frangi quam flecti.
> It is better to break than to bend.
> -- N/A
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38879 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Salve Lucia Flavia Lectrix,

I think this list is usually open to all topics; I was even asking
Censor Marinus last January about the probe landing on Titan since
he is an astronomer in the marcroworld. The riots are interesting
and as I eluded to the other day, Alexandria perhaps has the record
for riots since time in memorial and they started there at the drop
of a hat. The Romans had methods of dealing with these situations by
eliminating any trouble maker before he got off to first base.

In my opinion,the ML has to have some limits on how far you can go
since one does not like to put in peril the Roman peace here. If,
for example, we get arguing and criticizing about France and her
social engineering policies, start talking about Roman Iraq and
running down the American government, talk about homosexuality in
Ancient Rome and then start arguing about why Canada legalizes same
sex marriage etc. So then experience has shown us things get very
ugly and everyone gets resentful and defensive when their own
macronations come under fire. Religious discussions start out
innocent enough but eventually they can evolve where one religion or
another gets blamed for all the world's woes just as the redknecks
blame a certain ethnic group and relgion for the demise of wasp
civilization.

In short, when someone suggests something is offtopic, he or she
might be acting like Deputy Achia in " Gallio's Song" posted a few
days back by trying to keep the peace, knowing what slippery slope
is approaching.


Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stefanie Beer" <sbeer@n...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
> Why is this "off topic"? As far as I know this list serves as
our "Forum
> Romanum" a place where all Roman citizens and visitors meet and
talk about
> everything. I am quite sure that on the original forum there were
folks
> discussing politics, scandals, the best address to buy cloth or
wine, the
> latest games or races, their next neighbour´s broken leg or
marriage
> problems - in short everything that is discussed everywhere when
people meet
>
> This is why I don´t think the Paris situation is off topic.
> (Plus the fact that I´m very interested in what goes on where -
some might
> call it nosey, other typically female;-))
> Valete optime!
> Lucia Flavia Lectrix
>
> -------Originalmeldung-------
>
> Von: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Datum: 11/06/05 10:53:07
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
>
> Salvete,
>
> this is an off-topic talk; however I am more than willing to
explain
> privately what is
> going on in Paris. I live there.
>
> Valete,
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Propraetor Galliae
>
> --- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> > Too much tolerance can be deadly. Just look at the
> > problems in Germany,the American
> > southwest,France,SPAIN,etc.For fear of a facist label
> > the WEST dones nil.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@d...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > These riots would be nothing new to the Romans;
> > check out about riots
> > > in Roman Alexandria. I'm sure they found that whole
> > middle east and its
> > > provincials a real pest hole at times.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38880 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pictures in the Album Civium
On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 11:44:18PM -0000, M. Lucretius Agricola wrote:
> Are there any size or format restrictions we should know about? What
> is the optimal size?

Good question; I should have addressed it. 450x450 (or thereabouts)
would not require any reformatting; larger images will be resized to be
approximately that size.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Grammatici certant, et adhuc sub iudice lis est.
The scholars quarrel, and the case lies still undecided in the hands of the judge.
-- On that point the learned disagree.
-- Horace, "Ars poetica"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38881 From: paolocristiano1966 Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Pilate and Jesus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
>
> I'm sure others mis-take our posts, even if our posts are
not 'mistaken' :) I
> didn't know that about Lao Tzu. I do admit that reading works like
that, even
> allowing for the problems of translating a 'generic' language like
Chinese
> leaves me feeling I've been trying to hold clouds. I'm never sure
whether it is
> so meaningful I've missed something or so meaningless it could
mean anything.
> Unfortunately, I expect Master Lao would be the first to raise a
delighted laugh
> at such a thought!
> As for the rest, everybody of course has their cosmology though
Islam can
> cheat a bit since only the Koran is allegedly dictated by God, so
the rest can
> be attributed to human error ion transmissin. I'll just add this
thoug which I
> found intriguing. I see 'Creation' as the continuous process of
interpreting
> energy into material form or the constant emanation/coalescence of
> 'no-thingness' which is not quite the same as 'nothingness'. Even
scientists now
> speak of 'plenum-void' direct from Hermes Trimegistos and Gnostic
works (as
> well as Buddhist).
> I have read a fascinating reconciliation of science and
creationism from a
> professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. It's worth
remembering that
> Fred Hoyle gave 'Big Bang' its name dismissing it as "Genesis
disguised as
> science" because he believed in continuous creation. I suspect
some truth in
> both - that is usually the case.
> The explanation of creation is complicated, relying on
Einsteinian time
> dilation. Jewish scholars are agreed that 'day' in the text means
24 hours.
> However, there is only ONE act of creation, not recognisable in
the English.
> "God said 'Exist light' and light existed". Thereafter come
various 'and there
> was' 'brought forth according to its own manner' and so on. I'll
say straight
> off that for my money, it is more likely to show the ancients
inherited a
> scientific knowledge they no longer understood than that they had
access to a
> creator's diary, who in any case could not be a Supreme
Existence. 'Creation' in
> my view is the interpretation of the energetic background into
successive
> degrees of materiality.
> As Hoyle said, the difference between one creation e nihilo and
another may
> depend on reasons assumed but doesn't affect the
description. 'Light' we may
> call scientifically 'undefined electro-magnetic energy' without
really making
> ourselves any the wiser. Scientifically, the Cosmos would be a
point Black Hole
> of near infinite density and gravity. Relativity says that
processes would
> therefore run almost infinitely slow compared to our experience.
('Time slows
> down' - not an expression I like; a better one is to assume Time a
subjective
> experience of change).
> As the Cosmos expands, so 'Time speeds up' compared to its
original value.
> Therefore, the first day measured in terms of the first instant
when it becomes
> possible to measure anything, lasts for billions of years by
present
> measurement. Light separates from dark (shades of the divine
brothers Ahura
> Mazda and Angra Mainya!) when some unformed energy coalesces into
matter.
> Thereafter come successively shorter periods of solid formation,
life and so on,
> 'each according to its own kind'. So we roughly get, not as the
English
> suggests, sun and moon 'created' after Earth but 'becoming
visible', correctly
> that it would take geological ages of rain producing oceans for
the primaeval
> sky to clear. A recent Scientific American says this may have
happened faster
> and earlier than we used to think.
> Science has a habit of going back on itself: I grew up when
theory that the
> Moon was knocked off the Earth leaving the Pacific was
discreditted for a double
> planet or a capture. It is now back in fashion that something
knocked the Moon
> out of Earth, even if it didn't leave the Pacific.
> The only similar 'creation' comes when God 'breathes life' into
Adam ('Dom:
> Earth) which by Jewish tradition happened in Adam's 20th year.
> I think it straining to fit what fits and ignore the rest as
poetic infilling.
> Apparantly one creature has the distinction of being classed as
both reptile
> and bird. But it is interesting and since the second creation
account comes
> much closer to what might be expected from people working out how
it could have
> happened, it has a logic of complexity of form restricting
infinity of
> potential. Why Jews should have revelatory access to information
their
> predecessors did not, I cannot imagine. I see no reason others
before them
> should not, even if they added fanciful additions to it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Caesariensis,
>
> Most religions as well as cultures, including Islam have their own
cosmology.You
> are correct though, they should not be confused with science, yet
some ofthe
> most brilliant scientists were also quite driven by their
religiousbeliefs and
> used their science to "explain" what their religionhinted at but
could not
> adequately explain. The Greek philosophers were ofvery much cut
out of this
> cloth as was Einstein.
>
> FYI: If the tradition can be believed, Lao Tsu was not allowed to
retire
> hisgovernment post and leave the kingdom to go into obscurity as
he desired
> untilhe wrote those 5,000 words amice. The implication here is
that he was
> forcedto in order to live his life the way he wanted to. His work
Dao De Jing
> isprobably one of the most misunderstood pieces
of "religious"literature ever
> written. Perhaps our posts are too?
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>
>
>
>
> "Slow down and you will go far" - Satish Kumar
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Avete omnes americae terrae
ego sum Scipio Eutimo.
(gladiatore legionario and athlete pankration luctatio.)

I write from megalle hellas city Locri south italy and allied
faithful of Rome.
I would want to say my thought on the true religion:
Goddess of Mount Olympus and Mitra , they are only the true ones.
Muslim Hebrew Christians they are daughters of the same mother
here what makes:
> they kill destroy for having to be able and to take advantage of
people.They kill for having riches: oil, gold, diamonds.
The pagans have been exterminate from this people but the seed is
remained and now it to be in order to be born of .....
...IOVIS revenge He will be tremendous...


Salve,
o madre degli Dei, dai molti nomi, dalla bella prole;
salve,
o Ecate, custode delle porte, di gran potenza;
salve,
o Giano, progenitore, Zeus imperituro;
salve Zeus supremo;
rendete luminoso il cammino della mia vita,
colmo di beni, stornate i funesti morbi
dalle mie membra, e l'anima, che sulla terra delira,
traete in alto, purificata dalle iniziazioni che risvegliano la
mente.

salve,
or mother of Of i, from i many names, the beautiful sons
salve, or Ecate, caretaker of the doors, high power;
salve, or Giano;
salve supreme Zeus; you render the way of my life luminous, overflow
of assets, averted the terrible ones morbi from my limbs, and the
spirit, than on the earth raves, draws up, purified from the
initiations that wake up the mind.....
Valete omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38882 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Its NOT off topic.Anything that concerns our citizens
or pertains to nations that carry on the legacy of
Roma Antiqua by existing is VERY MUCH our business.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <sbeer@...>
wrote:
> Salvete!
> Why is this "off topic"? As far as I know this list
serves as our "Forum
> Romanum" a place where all Roman citizens and
visitors meet and talk about
> everything. I am quite sure that on the original
forum there were folks
> discussing politics, scandals, the best address to
buy cloth or wine, the
> latest games or races, their next neighbour´s broken
leg or marriage
> problems - in short everything that is discussed
everywhere when people mee
> t
>
> This is why I don´t think the Paris situation is off
topic.
> (Plus the fact that I´m very interested in what goes
on where - some migh
> t
> call it nosey, other typically female;-))
> Valete optime!
> Lucia Flavia Lectrix
>
> -------Originalmeldung-------
>
> Von: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Datum: 11/06/05 10:53:07
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
>
> Salvete,
>
> this is an off-topic talk; however I am more than
willing to explain
> privately what is
> going on in Paris. I live there.
>
> Valete,
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Propraetor Galliae
>
> --- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
wrote:
>
> > Too much tolerance can be deadly. Just look at
the
> > problems in Germany,the American
> > southwest,France,SPAIN,etc.For fear of a facist
label
> > the WEST dones nil.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > These riots would be nothing new to the Romans;
> > check out about riots
> > > in Roman Alexandria. I'm sure they found that
whole
> > middle east and its
> > > provincials a real pest hole at times.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
one click.
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38883 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
C. Equitius Cato Q. Fabio Maximo sal.

Salve Quintus Fabius.

Quintus, you wrote:

"...well, I'm speechless..."

That's a very good start. For the sake of the Republic, let's hope
the trend continues.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38884 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-06
Subject: Re: The new coins
Leave yourself open to a New Yorker & youre toast.
Nice diss, Cato! You 10-8d him!
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:
> C. Equitius Cato Q. Fabio Maximo sal.
>
> Salve Quintus Fabius.
>
> Quintus, you wrote:
>
> "...well, I'm speechless..."
>
> That's a very good start. For the sake of the
Republic, let's hope
> the trend continues.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38885 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
M. Lucretius Agricola Quinto Suetonio Paulino S. P. D.

I'm afraid I disagree with you, and here is why. Of course I have no
one person particularly in mind, I'm just writing about duty.



From ancient times, our community was led by a body of Senatores. They
deserve respect for taking on the burden of leadership. Even a madman,
were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be given respect. To do
otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the heart of the State.

Now when a Senator says that something is being done improperly it is
the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that citizen feels it is
wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius tells us how to bear this
burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully see things done our way.

If a madman were to be found in purple it is the job of the Senate and
the Censores to see that damage is done neither to the State nor to
their own august assembly. It is never proper for citizens to strike
at these, the very supports of the State, even if one of them might be
wholly rotten.

In my opinion it is patricians who should feel this most keenly.

There are many chances to be of service to the State. If one avenue is
closed off, even because of dishonorable words of another, the dutiful
citizen will simply find another way to be of service.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
>
> Salvet A. Tullia Scholastica et salvete omnes,
>
> One thing to bear in mind is that we are all here in part to absorb
> the better customs and philosophies of ancient Rome. Some of their
> philosophy and vitues was the Stoic approach which helped one endure
> tough or unpleasant situations both physically and mentally and
> shake it off like water off a duck's back. Maybe, hard as it is, it
> would be a good idea for NR citizens to stive to master a little of
> this Stoicism. Remember that quote by Marcus Aurelius that says
> begin each day by teeling yourself I'll be facing ingratitude,
> insolence, intolerance etc...
>
> As mentioned there are citizens who get a rebuff or rude,
> insensitive comment and leave immediately, yet there are others I
> could name both high and lower in NR and the Civil service who,
> whether you like, agree with or dislike, got raked over the coals
> but stuck to their guns, fought for their beliefs like tenacious
> junk yard dogs and hey, they are still with us! Something to think
> about isn't it?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@l...> wrote:
> >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Flauio Fidei quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque
> > > omnibus S.P.D.
> > >
> > > I have seen citizens dismayed enough to leave after
> > > only weeks or chatisement by leadership or our in
> > > house professors.
> > >
> > > ATS: And then there are those of us who endure such
> remarks, and stick
> > > with it. However, I know of only one Œin house professor¹ who
> has chastised
> > > anyone for anything, and can¹t recall much in the way thereof by
> any of our
> > > leaders unless it was fully justified.
> > >
> > > Its online practice for trial
> > > attorneys
> > >
> > > ATS: Well, we do have a few of those among us...and there
> are plenty of
> > > arguments by non-attorneys here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > >> > When I first arrived here I was motivated & I was
> > > glad
> > >> > that I could finally scream out loud I am a Roman
> > > Not
> > >> > that I needed NR-Ive always felt I was a Roman.
> > >> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <annia@c...>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>> > > Salve,
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > That's funny, cause I'm not playing a role. And if
> > >> > this is a game, where's
> > >>> > > my character sheet? Do I have to roll dice in
> > > order
> > >> > to participate? Where's
> > >>> > > the DM? When do I level up?
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Roleplaying game, indeed.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Vale,
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> > > From: "raymond fuentes" <praefectus2324@y...>
> > >>> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > >>> > > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:36 PM
> > >>> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins & the
> > >> > arrogance of scholars.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > This is why NR is a role playing game.When cives
> > >> > get
> > >>>> > > > involved they are ridiculed.The drawn out
> > > debates
> > >>>> > > > about historical accuracy begin until a new lex
> > >> > pops
> > >>>> > > > up.
> > >>>> > > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > <wm_hogue@y...>
> > >>>> > > > wrote:
> > >>>>> > > >> I have decided that you are right. I've
> > > withdrawn
> > >>>> > > > from this crackpot
> > >>>>> > > >> project. Sorry to have bothered you. Now I'll
> > >> > return
> > >>>> > > > to grading papers.
> > >>>>> > > >>
> > >>>>> > > >>
> > >>>>> > > >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > >> > QFabiusMaxmi@a...
> > >>>> > > > wrote:
> > >>>>>> > > >> >
> > >>>>>> > > >> > In a message dated 11/5/2005 3:03:14 AM
> > > Pacific
> > >>>> > > > Standard Time,
> > >>>>>> > > >> > wm_hogue@y... writes:
> > >>>>>> > > >> > since it has been
> > >>>>>> > > >> > mentioned here on many occasions since it was
> > >>>> > > > started, and since it
> > >>>>>> > > >> > was discussed fully at the Conventus I am
> > >> > somewhat
> > >>>> > > > surprised at some
> > >>>>>> > > >> > of the recent comments
> > >>>>>> > > >> > Well, gee, 2/3rds the Senate wasn't at the
> > >>>> > > > Conventus were they?
> > >>>>>> > > >> >
> > >>>>>> > > >> > Perhaps why the Senate wasn't interested was
> > >>>> > > > because we at Nova Roma
> > >>>>> > > >> listen
> > >>>>>> > > >> > to 150 crackpot ideas every year. If you
> > > have
> > >>>> > > > tentative designs, I
> > >>>>> > > >> and other
> > >>>>>> > > >> > Senators want to see them. It'll save lot of
> > >> > time
> > >>>> > > > in the future if
> > >>>>> > > >> the Senate
> > >>>>>> > > >> > rejects the design, and demands another.
> > > Then
> > >> > you
> > >>>> > > > can be ahead of your
> > >>>>>> > > >> > production curve and not behind it.
> > >>>>>> > > >> >
> > >>>>>> > > >> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> > >>>>>> > > >> >
> > >>>>>> > > >> >
> > >>>>>> > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > >>>> > > > removed]
> > > === Message Truncated ===
> > >
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38886 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/6/2005 6:50:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
praefectus2324@... writes:
For the sake of the
Republic, let's hope
> the trend continues.
Except I was here long before you were, have done more work, have had more
sleepless nights and I'll be here long after you are gone. There would been
nothing for you to join without I and a few others consistant involvement.
As for the insulting of a Senator, I'll let that pass.
Q Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38887 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: SPQ Risiko, lo sapevate?
avete omnes,

una notizia ha animato le discussioni (almeno di una parte di noi ;-)
durante l'incontro dei ragazzi dell'Urbe di venerdi passato. C.Ian.
Flaminius se ne è uscito cosi' <<lo sapevate che è uscito SPQ Risiko"?

:-)

d'uopo il salto a controllare su Internet! Tratto da un forum di
discussione:

Una nuova straordinaria edizione di Risiko, ambientata all'epoca
dell'Impero Romano! Legionari, triremi, arene e vessilli sono i nuovi
pezzi di gioco con i quali mettere alla prova la propria abilità di
stratega. I giocatori dovranno infatti dimostrare non solo di saper
conquistare il controllo delle province dell'Impero, ma anche dei
mari, per poi riuscire a ricostruire il potere di Roma. S.P.Q.RisiKo
è, infatti, ambientato nel periodo precedente alla salita al trono di
Diocleziano, un'epoca che vide grandi lotte interne e un continuo
ribaltamento degli equilibri politici. Uno scenario ideale per tutti
gli appassionati della grande strategia!

1. Note storiche ricavate dal regolamento
SPQRisiKo si svolge in un'epoca ben precisa della storia dell'antica
Roma, nota come periodo dell'anarchia militare. Questo periodo
particolarmente caotico ed instabile inizia nel 236 d.C. con la salita
al potere di Massimino, soldato di umilissime origini proveniente
dalla Tracia. I nobili senatori sono quasi completamente esautorati
del loro potere istituzionale a favore dei comandanti militari, ma il
regno di Massimino sarà di breve durata come quasi tutti quelli che
seguiranno, fino al giorno della salita al potere di Diocleziano (284
d.C.). In questi quasi cinquant'anni di storia si susseguono episodi
di ribellione interna, segno evidente delle tendenze disgregatrici
dell'Impero. Le Province eleggono nuovi Imperatori in modo del tutto
autonomo, creando continue lotte di potere che si concludono spesso
nel sangue. Gli episodi di tradimento e gli improvvisi cambiamenti di
schieramento da parte delle forze militari sono all'ordine del giorno.
L'unità stessa dell'Impero inizia a venire meno e si iniziano a porre
le basi per una scissione che diventerà effettiva solo molti decenni
più tardi. Le Province più lontane, sempre meno collegate al potere di
Roma, spingono per ottenere un'autonomia non solo formale e guardano
con crescente interesse ad altri imperi la cui forza crescente inizia
a mettere in discussione quella romana. L'Imperatore di turno si trova
così spesso a combattere contro i nemici storici, ma anche contro
tutti coloro che vorrebbero approfittare della situazione per
guadagnare favori e prestigio. Nelle zone occidentali nasce quello che
si autodefinisce il "Regnum Gallicum", alla cui testa si pone un certo
Postumo, mentre in quelle orientali sale al potere tale Macriano,
ufficiale dell'esercito di Valeriano postosi alla giuda delle truppe
superstiti. Entrambe queste manifestazioni di indipendentismo
derivano, principalmente, dalla sensazione di lontananza del potere
centrale e dalla necessità di provvedere con mezzi propri alla
difesa.Tutto questo mentre l'Imperatore "ufficiale" è Gallieno, che
resterà in carica fino al 268 d.C. Due anni dopo, nel 270, si
assisterà ad un tentativo di riorganizzazione dell'Impero ad opera di
Domizio Aureliano che passerà alla storia come "Restitur Orbis" (colui
che ha ridato al mondo la sua giusta forma). Dopo la sua morte (275),
il potere passerà ad altri tre imperatori: M. Claudio Tacito (il quale
si dichiara imparentato alla lontana con il più celebre scrittore e
storico), M. Aurelio Probo e M.Aurelio Caro, che si impegnarono
fondamentalmente nell'arginare il dilagare dei nemici alle frontiere,
sia occidentali che orientali. Nel 284 d.C., lontano da Roma, viene
incoronato Imperatore Diocleziano che riuscirà a riportare l'Impero
alla stabilità


2 - Il gioco in breve

2.1 SPQRisiKo è una nuova versione del celebre gioco Risiko,
ambientata all'epoca dell'Impero Romano e, più precisamente, tra il
234 e il 284 d.C., un periodo di totale anarchia militare durante il
quale si succedettero numerosi imperatori, quasi tutti provenienti
dalle file dell'esercito (sull'argomento, al termine del regolamento,
potete leggere delle note storiche più approfondite).


2.2 In SPQRisiKo, ogni giocatore interpreta il ruolo di un comandante
militare che deve dimostrare il proprio valore e la propria capacità
strategica, al fine di accumulare Punti Vittoria ed essere proclamato
Nuovo Imperatore.


2.3 SPQRisiKo si svolge su una mappa che raffigura i confini
dell'Impero Romano, suddiviso in 45 Province e 12 aree di mare. I nomi
ed i confini tracciati sulla mappa sono stati adattati alle esigenze
del gioco e hanno come unico obiettivo quello di creare uno scenario
verosimile, senza alcuna pretesa di precisione storica.

1 - Componenti



1.1 Una plancia di gioco raffigurante una mappa dell'Impero Romano,
suddivisa in 45 Province e 12 aree di mare e con una sezione (sotto la
scritta SPQRisiKo!) destinata al conteggio dei Punti Vittoria.


1.2 Una dotazione di pezzi di gioco in plastica in 5 diversi colori,
raffiguranti legionari, vessilli e triremi.

1.3 Una dotazione di 12 pezzi in plastica di colore neutro
raffiguranti delle arene (denominati Centri di Potere).


1.4 3 dadi rossi.


1.5 3 dadi blu.


1.6 Un mazzo di 55 carte speciali.


1.7 Un regolamento.

2 - Il gioco in breve

2.4 Il gioco si svolge a turni e, all'inizio di ciascun turno, ogni
giocatore può acquisire dei Punti Vittoria in base alle conquiste
fatte in precedenza. Questi punti vengono segnati sull'apposita
sezione della plancia di gioco e colui che raggiungerà per primo il
punteggio prefissato all'inizio della partita sarà proclamato Nuovo
Imperatore.


2.5 All'inizio della partita è dunque possibile decidere di giocare
con un limite di tempo oppure fino al raggiungimento di un determinato
punteggio, in modo da adeguare la durata della partita alle proprie
esigenze.


2.6 SPQRisiKo, si gioca sempre utilizzando i 5 eserciti disponibili,
anche se i giocatori sono in numero inferiore. I colori in eccesso
saranno infatti utilizzati come eserciti neutrali, incapaci di
effettuare attacchi, ma in grado di difendersi.


valete
M IUL PERVSIANVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38888 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
C. Equitius Cato Q. Fabio Maximo sal.

Salve Quintus Fabius.

Quintus, you wrote:

"As for the insulting of a Senator, I'll let that pass."

hmmmm.....let me get this straight: it is perfectly fine for you to
insult a patrician magistrate (see "Cato the Clueless") while at the
same time displaying an ignorance the likes of which would make the
galley-slaves on a grain barge cringe, but return the favor and you
pull out the "I'm a senator" club again --- and imply that there might
be....consequences?

That's an interesting take on the use of senatorial dignity.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38889 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: a little art project
M. Lucr. Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.

It has come to my attention that there may be some interest in this.



While I was attached to the coin project I did quite a lot of art. It
was never a secret, but it was never posted here because I wanted the
Senate to see the final art and have a chance to approve it or reject
it before it was revealed to the public at large. Now I am not
attached to that project, and they may choose to use this or not, at
their discretion, but it is mine and as an independent citizen I would
like to take this opportunity to share it with you, and a few of the
things I learned along the way.

If you go to the Photos area here, and click "Show All", the very last
image is "coindesign.jpg". Before you look there, though, please
indulge me and read a bit further.

The image you see is a very low resolution reduction of my working
images. My images are quite large and there is not space enough for
them here. The .jpg posted here gives you an idea though. The gray
areas you see are reserved for text. I'll tell you below what the text
would be.

Please remember that I am not an artist and never claimed to have any
artistic ability. It simply fell to me to do this, so I did my best. I
know very well that the file format I chose is incorrect for this sort
of thing, but I simply used what software I had on hand and was
familiar with.

You will see that the obverse (or "front" or "heads" side) has a large
image of a building. A word or two about Roman conventions in
portrayal of buildings is in order. Roman coins (and other plastic
art) did not always attempt to portray well-known buildings
realistically. Not only were details left out, major changes could be
made in building plan to suit the needs of the designer. A good
example is a relief in the Capitoline museum that shows the Capitolium
in the background. This relief shows the Capitolium as Corinthian
order and tetrastyle (having four columns across the front). This is
plainly impossible. Even if in times past the building had been Tuscan
order, wooden and tetrastyle, by the time it was rebuilt in the
Corinthian order the architrave would have been stone, not wood. Given
the known size of the building, spanning the front with a stone
architrave supported by only four columns would have been impossible.
Indeed, it is also shown elsewhere as Corinthian order and hexastyle
(six columns). What we learn from this is that Romans took a lot of
liberties when they portrayed buildings in art.

Every aspect of this design is based on features found in Roman coins,
either of the Republic or of the early Empire. Later coins were
ignored. The figures on the obverse are all based on extant statues.

If possible, resize the image on your computer screen until the coins
are 32 millimeters in diameter, the actual size proposed for these coins.

The OBVERSE

The obverse device (the picture part) shows the Capitolium (Temple of
Capitoline Iuppiter) with the Capitoline Triad of Iuno, Iuppiter and
Minerva on the porch. This was also done on Roman coins.

The building is topped by a quadriga (as it actually was) that is
coming toward the viewer. Only the fronts of the horses are shown. The
roof is bordered by seashell antefixi. the pedimental sculpture is a
"vajra" lightning bolt. This pedimental decoration was actually shown
on Capitolium coins of the Republic. It is a very important symbol,
appearing in a somewhat altered form on Roman shields. This vajra also
figures importantly in Buddhist art, symbolizing power and authority.
It is believed that the vajra was taken into Buddhist art at a very
early period, under the influence of Hellenistic art, which also
transmitted conventions of pose and draping. Thus the vajra, well
attested to in Roman art, forms a bridge across continents, cultures
and ages, always as a symbol of power. Only we Romans retain it in
anything like its original context.

The building shown here is Corinthian order. Note that the fluting is
drawn to suggest the roundness of the columns, with the center flute
being somewhat wider than the flanking ones. A Capitolium coin from
the time of Domitian showed the columns this way, and it is a very
dramatic feature, fine and delicate but linear, forming part of the
frame around the central figures. The columns and capitals will tax
the die-cutter's art to the limit. The architrave is somewhat
simplified and the dentils rather over sized, but again, they are
still pushing the limit of the die-cutter's skill.

The entire temple sits on a simple base supported by the large legend
"NOVA ROMA". This symbolically shows that Nova Roma supports the
Religio and provides a new home and welcome for the Roman deities.

The figures, as mentioned above, are all based on extant sculptures
and the poses are consistent with those on actual Roman coins.

Iuno on the left is shown as a proper and dutiful wife, wearing a
stola but crowned with a diadem. She makes an offering from a patera
while holding her staff in her hand.

Iuppiter is shown seated, holding his scepter which disappears out of
view above. He catches his constant companion Victory in his hand, who
offers him a wreath. Next to Iuppiter is a symbol of Terminus, who of
all the Gods refused to make way for the Temple of Iuppiter,
foreshadowing the stability of the city and the Romans.

On the right is Minerva, a dutiful daughter. She holds her spear and
shield, showing, along with her stern look, that she is ready to
defend family and home. She wears the aegis, adding to her fearsome
look, but it is possible to see that she is still a young woman.
Together with Iuno and Iuppiter she forms a family group, showing the
central importance of the family to the Romans.

At the base of the coin, curved against the rim is the word
"SESTERTIVS". This word never appeared on Roman coins, but we modern
Romans need a bit of help, and it corrects the "SESTERTIUS" of the
original coins.

The REVERSE

The surrounding gray band is the location of the consular date. Yes, I
know that takes a lot of letters and yes, there is enough room. I
measured.

The central figure is a common one from coins of the Republic;
Iuppiter in a quadriga driven by Victory.

Iuppiter again holds his staff, and now wields a vajra thunderbolt in
his upraised arm. Victory, wings spread behind her, hold the reins.
The horses go forward with energy but with dignity.

Iuppiter, Victory and the vajra tie the reverse image to the obverse,
and the seated Iuppiter with Victory on the obverse ties this coin to
the previous one.

The FUTURE

It was envisioned to keep the Capitolium die in use for some time, and
to produce future coins with new reverse dies showing the correct
consular date and a new central device. This continued use of the
obverse die would have two benefits. First, it would reduce the cost
of future coins by saving on the die cost. Second, it would establish
a thematic unity among the sestertius issues.

The COSTS

It has been suggested that the cost is far too high. There are several
reasons I feel this to be incorrect.

First, there are several markets outside of Nova Roma that I have
identified for these coins. Our first sestertius found its way outside
the circle of citizens. I have surveyed the products now on the market
and ours is far superior in design and far lower in price than what is
now available.

Second, the cost includes a limited number of "proof" coins. These are
coins specially struck for collectors. It is a common macronational
practice to mint proof coins that are then sold to collectors at a
premium price. The proceeds go to support the minting of ordinary
coins. Proof coins are struck in the press but loaded and unloaded by
hand. The dies are specially polished and the pressure used is higher
than normal. The metal blanks (planchettes) are also specially treated
and polished. The result is a very brilliant and clear coin that is
then specially packaged in a protector. These would be sold to
collectors with numbered certificates. Again, I have surveyed the
market and a demand does exist for proofs of our coins. Again, ours
are better looking and lower in price than other similar items on
offer, so I expect them to sell rapidly.

What about other coins?

At the present peg of one sestertius to fifty US cents, an "as" would
be valued at 12.5 cents and a denarius at two US dollars. An aureus
would be valued at fifty US dollars. I now know that given the will
to do so we can mint all of these coins and do it profitably. Because
of the different demands of each coin they would all be made at
different mints, but I regard this a good thing that would protect us
from disaster if a single mint would go out of business.

But as I said at the outset, I am no longer involved in the coin
project, so these are just the musings of a citizen, not a proposal of
any sort.

I hope you enjoyed reading this. Specialists will note that in places
I have simplified, but only for brevity. If you want to help with the
coin project, go to their website. If you want to complain, find
someone else to complain to. If you want to talk about Roman coins,
feel free to contact me.

M. Lucr. Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38890 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
M. Lucr. Agricola C. Equitio Catoni S.P.D.

I think lawyers say "res ipse loquitur". Let it pass, amice. He has
done no real harm, except perhaps to himself. Time to walk on.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato Q. Fabio Maximo sal.
>
> Salve Quintus Fabius.
>
> Quintus, you wrote:
>
> "As for the insulting of a Senator, I'll let that pass."
>
> hmmmm.....let me get this straight: it is perfectly fine for you to
> insult a patrician magistrate (see "Cato the Clueless") while at the
> same time displaying an ignorance the likes of which would make the
> galley-slaves on a grain barge cringe, but return the favor and you
> pull out the "I'm a senator" club again --- and imply that there might
> be....consequences?
>
> That's an interesting take on the use of senatorial dignity.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38891 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
A. Apollonius Q. Maximo omnibusque sal.

> Hmm? So once again if I understand you correctly,
> the burden of discovery
> was on the
> Senate, and not the holders of the franchise.

Once again you do not understand correctly!

The plan has always been, and still remains, that no
coins will be produced and no orders will be accepted
until a proposal has been approved by the senate. What
you seem to be demanding so petulantly is that we
should have got the senate's approval to start
developing a proposal for the senate's approval. But
why stop there, Maxime? Why not require that we should
seek the senate's approval before we think about
whether we ought to seek the senate's approval?

> I don't think so. The Senate never awarded any
> private citizen a franchise
> to mint coins,
> but as you say, I have the attention span of gnat so
> perhaps I forgot to
> vote, missed a meeting or the Gods forbid, blocked
> the progress of the proposed
> franchise.

Blimey, you really are being more obtuse than usual.
What exactly, in your near-paranoid state of mind, do
you think is actually happening? Do you think someone
is intending to mint coins of the republic without the
approval of the senate? Or do you think this has
actually been done already? Perhaps you imagine that
secretly we are all walking around with our pockets
full of shiny new coins of Nova Roma and you're the
only one who didn't know about it?

Let me tell you once again what you have already been
told at least five times over the last couple of days.
What we are talking about is a group of people trying
to come up with a plan for minting coins. Once the
plan is ready, it will be presented to the senate for
approval or rejection. If it is approved, coins will
be minted. If it is rejected, coins will not be
minted. Now perhaps you'd like to explain what's wrong
with that?

> If I remember correctly, (sorry my feeble brain)
> some well meaning citizens
> made an announcement about issuing a new run of
> Cassian coinage. When the
> report was back that the old dies were destroyed,
> someone wanted to do new ones.
> We even had coin collector make a very compelling
> argument why this would be
> good for Nova Roma.
> I thought at the time the Senate "adopted a wait and
> see" attitude. We never
> formally put the Senate approval on any design, nor
> did we say that any
> package would receive auto approval, since that
> seems to be the why a "package"
> would be presented to the Senate.

Goodness me, it seems you do remember after all. So
now I'm very puzzled at your reaction. Let's recap the
chain of events:

- Some people talk about making new coins.
- Some other people point out that the senate would
need to approve.
- Those people get together and start working out what
the coins could look like and how they could be made.
- The senate decides, quite properly, to do nothing
about it until a request for approval is forthcoming.

So far, so good. But then what happens?

- Someone mentions that the plan will soon be ready
for inspection by the senate.
- You, Maxime, start complaining that the senate has
not been consulted and accusing people of acting
illegally.

Now, think hard. Can you begin to see that the last
step doesn't make much sense?

I think you've actually realized already that you've
been talking nonsense, because you're starting to
back-track a bit. Now you're getting ready to say that
all along what you've really been objecting to is the
"fact" that we've been taking the senate's approval
for granted. You say:

> ... nor
> did we say that any
> package would receive auto approval, since that
> seems to be the why a "package"
> would be presented to the Senate.

Ah, now. So you're seeing that we've worked hard to
get everything ready so that if the senate approves we
can go into production very quickly. You're worried
that if the senate rejects the proposal we'll have
wasted a lot of time and effort. How sweet of you to
be concerned. But perhaps you'd like to explain how
exactly your kind concern for us comes to be expressed
in accusations of improper behaviour and disrespect
for constitutional procedure?

You say that the only reason for presenting the senate
with a "package" is that we have assumed the senate
will approve it. Oh? And how does that piece of logic
work exactly? Is it not possible - just possible -
that the reason for presenting the senate with a
"package" is that anything less would look amateurish
and unpersuasive and would make the senate quite
rightly doubt that we are capable of actually getting
anything done?

Seriously, what do you think the senate would have
thought if we had presented a petition saying "we'd
like to make some coins, please, but we don't know how
much it's going to cost, we haven't found anyone to
mint them, we don't know how long it will take, but on
the positive side we thought a picture of a horse
might be nice"? You'd have sent us away saying "come
back when you have a proper proposal with some
prospect of actually happening". And quite rightly so.

If you present a film-producer with a finished draft
of a script and say "I have a director who's agreed to
direct it if you approve, and I have enough financial
backers to fund the whole thing", of course you may
expect the producer to send you packing, or perhaps to
suggest some changes, put the script into development,
maybe change the director, and so on. But do you
expect the producer to say "How dare you come to me
with this 'package' as if I'm going to approve it with
no questions asked? You show disrespect to me and to
the studio! Get out, and don't come back until you
have only a very vague idea of what you'd like to do,
no script, no director, and no backers. Then we'll
talk"? No, of course you don't expect him to say that,
because that would be utterly stupid. Like what you've
been saying.

> ... Here we have you,
> Apollonius, a champion of
> Roman procedure, ignoring it. And to say the Senate
> should not be involved in
> this thing because we are "too slow" well, I'm
> speechless...

Maxime, I know you're not a big fan of paying
attention to what other people say, but I honestly do
recommend it. Sometimes it can help you avoid looking
a complete fool. For instance, you would have noticed
that what I've been saying is not that "the senate
should not be involved" but that the senate will be
involved, but only when we're ready to go into
production, because involving the senate any earlier
would be a waste of both its time and ours.

As for Roman procedure, that is precisely what we have
been following from the very beginning. You'd like to
take over from me as champion of Roman procedure,
would you? Well, come back when you can tell the
difference between Roman procedure and raving dementia.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38892 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.

> From ancient times, our community was led by a body
> of Senatores. They
> deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> leadership. Even a madman,
> were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be given
> respect. To do
> otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the heart of
> the State.

My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This is
nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals of
republican history are filled with very little else
than Romans challenging their superiors. The
republican constitution as we know it was formed by a
century of organized civil disobedience by the urban
plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At the
Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the story of
how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a quaestor at
the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
because he refused to obey the orders of the presiding
magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
naturally submissive to authority. Their society was,
it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically so,
not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
one had an unassailable right to respect.

> Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> improperly it is
> the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> citizen feels it is
> wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius tells us
> how to bear this
> burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully see
> things done our way.

Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his little
book the republic had been dead for more than a
century. His words take us into the mind of the
submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the principate,
not into that of the free and vigorous republican.

Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which gave
Aurelius and his contemporaries their submissive
mindset was alien to the republican mind. Only in the
last few generations of the republic did stoicism have
any sort of hold on the aristocratic consciousness,
and even then it was a very Romanized sort of
stoicism. The most stoic of them all was young Cato,
he who refused to obey a consul and had to be dragged
from the rostra; and not far behind him was Cicero,
who can hardly be accused of deferring to those he did
not respect.

Stoicism was a philosophy developed in Greece at a
time when democracy was broken-backed, the Greek
cities were enslaved by one Hellenistic king after
another, and thinking men felt they had no control of
their own destinies; accordingly they developed a
philosophy of acceptance, submission, and social
immobility. It's no coincidence that it became popular
at Rome at precisely the time when people who would
once have been leaders of a free republic were now at
the mercy first of feuding warlords and then of
autocrats.

The republican spirit is a fighting spirit. It is
dynamic and vigorous. Where it sees injustice, it
challenges injustice, no matter who perpetrates it.
What other ancient state put members of its own
aristocracy on public trial for oppressing foreigners
and bringing the state into disrepute with its allies?
We have a duty, yes, but it's a duty to the republic,
not to this or that individual. If someone is doing
harm to the republic our duty is to challenge, not to
submit. We are not subjects of monarchs who rule by
divine right but citizens governed by magistrates who
serve at our pleasure and suffrage and subject to the
law. To think otherwise is to invite autocracy.



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38893 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: a.d VII Id. Nov.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VII Idus Novembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"L. Papirius Crassus and L. Plautius Venox were thereupon elected
consuls, the former for the second time. At the beginning of the year
deputations came from Fabrateria and Luca, places belonging to the
Volscians, with a request to be received into the protection of Rome,
whose overlordship they would faithfully and loyally acknowledge if
they would undertake to defend them from the Samnites. The senate
acceded to their request, and sent to warn the Samnites against
violating the territory of these two cities. The Samnites took the
warning, not because they were anxious for peace, but because they
were not yet ready for war. This year a war commenced with Privernum
and its ally, Fundi; their commander was a Fundan, Vitrubius Baccus, a
man of great distinction not only in his own city but even in Rome,
where he had a house on the Palatine, which was afterwards destroyed
and the site sold, the place being thenceforth known as the Bacci
Prata. Whilst he was spreading devastation far and wide through the
districts of Setia, Norba, and Cora, L. Papirius advanced against him
and took up a position not far from his camp. Vitrubius had neither
the prudence to remain within his lines in presence of an enemy
stronger than himself nor the courage to fight at a distance from his
camp. He gave battle whilst his men were hardly clear of their camp,
and thinking more of retreating back to it than of the battle or the
enemy, was with very little effort put to a decisive defeat. Owing to
the proximity of the camp retreat was easy, and he had not much
difficulty in protecting his men from serious loss; hardly any were
killed in the actual battle, and only a few in the rear of the crowded
fugitives as they were rushing into their camp. As soon as it grew
dark they abandoned it for Privernum, trusting to stone walls for
protection rather than to the rampart round their camp.

The other consul, Plautius, after ravaging the fields in all
directions and carrying off the plunder, led his army into the
territory of Fundi. As he was crossing their frontier the senate of
Fundi met him and explained that they had not come to intercede for
Vitrubius and those who had belonged to his party, but for the people
of Fundi. They pointed out that Vitrubius himself had cleared them
from all responsibility by seeking shelter in Privernum and not in
Fundi, though it was his city. At Privernum, therefore, the enemies of
Rome were to be looked for and punished, for they had been faithless
both to Fundi and Rome. The men of Fundi wished for peace; their
sympathies were wholly Roman, and they retained a grateful sense of
the boon they received when the rights of citizenship were conferred
upon them. They besought the consul to abstain from making war upon an
unoffending people; their lands, their city, their own persons and the
persons of their wives and children were and would continue to be at
the disposal of Rome. The consul commended them for their loyalty and
sent despatches to Rome to inform the senate that the Fundans were
firm in their allegiance, after which he marched to Privernum.
Claudius gives a different account. According to him the consul first
proceeded against the ringleaders of the revolt, of whom three hundred
and fifty were sent in chains to Rome. He adds that the senate refused
to receive the surrender because they considered that the Fundans were
anxious to escape with the punishment of poor and obscure individuals.
" - Livy, History of Rome 8.19


PERSON OF THE DAY - TERMINUS

Terminus is the Roman deity protecting the boundaries between the
fields. Actually, the stone that marked the border was thought to be a
sacred object with divine powers. Each year, on February 23, the feast
of the Terminalia was held. At this ceremony people poured sacrificial
blood over the stone and placed wreaths of flowers to renew the powers
of the stone. Later, people began to regard the stone as a god.

The god Iuppiter, who also protected the borders as Iuppiter Terminus
or Terminalus, was closely connected with Terminus. Legend has it that
Terminus was the only god who did not give way to Iuppiter when he
moved into his temple on the Capitol. In this temple, a boundary stone
was worshipped as the stone of Terminus. It was also believed that a
curse was placed on anyone who would remove a boundary stone.


Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/Liv2His.html),
Terminus
(http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/roman/articles.html)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38894 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
M. Lucr. Agricola A. Apolloinio Cordo S.P.D.

Thank you, amice, for giving me much to consider. I do wonder, though,
if these characters made it into the histories because they were the
norm or because they were unusual.

Your posts and those of C. Equitius Cato always give me much food for
thought. Thanks to both of you for posting so freely.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
>
> > From ancient times, our community was led by a body
> > of Senatores. They
> > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > leadership. Even a madman,
> > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be given
> > respect. To do
> > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the heart of
> > the State.
>
> My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This is
> nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals of
> republican history are filled with very little else
> than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> republican constitution as we know it was formed by a
> century of organized civil disobedience by the urban
> plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At the
> Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the story of
> how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a quaestor at
> the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> because he refused to obey the orders of the presiding
> magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> naturally submissive to authority. Their society was,
> it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically so,
> not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
> where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
> auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
> one had an unassailable right to respect.
>
> > Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> > improperly it is
> > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > citizen feels it is
> > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius tells us
> > how to bear this
> > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully see
> > things done our way.
>
> Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his little
> book the republic had been dead for more than a
> century. His words take us into the mind of the
> submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the principate,
> not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
>
> Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which gave
> Aurelius and his contemporaries their submissive
> mindset was alien to the republican mind. Only in the
> last few generations of the republic did stoicism have
> any sort of hold on the aristocratic consciousness,
> and even then it was a very Romanized sort of
> stoicism. The most stoic of them all was young Cato,
> he who refused to obey a consul and had to be dragged
> from the rostra; and not far behind him was Cicero,
> who can hardly be accused of deferring to those he did
> not respect.
>
> Stoicism was a philosophy developed in Greece at a
> time when democracy was broken-backed, the Greek
> cities were enslaved by one Hellenistic king after
> another, and thinking men felt they had no control of
> their own destinies; accordingly they developed a
> philosophy of acceptance, submission, and social
> immobility. It's no coincidence that it became popular
> at Rome at precisely the time when people who would
> once have been leaders of a free republic were now at
> the mercy first of feuding warlords and then of
> autocrats.
>
> The republican spirit is a fighting spirit. It is
> dynamic and vigorous. Where it sees injustice, it
> challenges injustice, no matter who perpetrates it.
> What other ancient state put members of its own
> aristocracy on public trial for oppressing foreigners
> and bringing the state into disrepute with its allies?
> We have a duty, yes, but it's a duty to the republic,
> not to this or that individual. If someone is doing
> harm to the republic our duty is to challenge, not to
> submit. We are not subjects of monarchs who rule by
> divine right but citizens governed by magistrates who
> serve at our pleasure and suffrage and subject to the
> law. To think otherwise is to invite autocracy.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
> snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38895 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salve M. Lucr. Agricola et A. Apolloni Corde,

Thank you both for your comments and I learned much again from this
exchange. You are both on a higher level in Roman studies than me so
at this stage I'll sit back and listen!

QSP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@y...> wrote:
>
> M. Lucr. Agricola A. Apolloinio Cordo S.P.D.
>
> Thank you, amice, for giving me much to consider. I do wonder,
though,
> if these characters made it into the histories because they were
the
> norm or because they were unusual.
>
> Your posts and those of C. Equitius Cato always give me much food
for
> thought. Thanks to both of you for posting so freely.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> <a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
> >
> > > From ancient times, our community was led by a body
> > > of Senatores. They
> > > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > > leadership. Even a madman,
> > > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be given
> > > respect. To do
> > > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the heart of
> > > the State.
> >
> > My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This is
> > nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals of
> > republican history are filled with very little else
> > than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> > republican constitution as we know it was formed by a
> > century of organized civil disobedience by the urban
> > plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At the
> > Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the story of
> > how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a quaestor at
> > the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> > because he refused to obey the orders of the presiding
> > magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> > naturally submissive to authority. Their society was,
> > it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically so,
> > not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> > improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
> > where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
> > auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
> > one had an unassailable right to respect.
> >
> > > Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> > > improperly it is
> > > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > > citizen feels it is
> > > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius tells us
> > > how to bear this
> > > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully see
> > > things done our way.
> >
> > Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his little
> > book the republic had been dead for more than a
> > century. His words take us into the mind of the
> > submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the principate,
> > not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
> >
> > Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which gave
> > Aurelius and his contemporaries their submissive
> > mindset was alien to the republican mind. Only in the
> > last few generations of the republic did stoicism have
> > any sort of hold on the aristocratic consciousness,
> > and even then it was a very Romanized sort of
> > stoicism. The most stoic of them all was young Cato,
> > he who refused to obey a consul and had to be dragged
> > from the rostra; and not far behind him was Cicero,
> > who can hardly be accused of deferring to those he did
> > not respect.
> >
> > Stoicism was a philosophy developed in Greece at a
> > time when democracy was broken-backed, the Greek
> > cities were enslaved by one Hellenistic king after
> > another, and thinking men felt they had no control of
> > their own destinies; accordingly they developed a
> > philosophy of acceptance, submission, and social
> > immobility. It's no coincidence that it became popular
> > at Rome at precisely the time when people who would
> > once have been leaders of a free republic were now at
> > the mercy first of feuding warlords and then of
> > autocrats.
> >
> > The republican spirit is a fighting spirit. It is
> > dynamic and vigorous. Where it sees injustice, it
> > challenges injustice, no matter who perpetrates it.
> > What other ancient state put members of its own
> > aristocracy on public trial for oppressing foreigners
> > and bringing the state into disrepute with its allies?
> > We have a duty, yes, but it's a duty to the republic,
> > not to this or that individual. If someone is doing
> > harm to the republic our duty is to challenge, not to
> > submit. We are not subjects of monarchs who rule by
> > divine right but citizens governed by magistrates who
> > serve at our pleasure and suffrage and subject to the
> > law. To think otherwise is to invite autocracy.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
> > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38896 From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Situation in Gallia - France
Salvete Omnes,

I would like to thank the citizens that did express concerns about the situation in
Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
and none has suffered from the riots.

Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I spent the day with my children downtown
Paris with not a single problem. The riots are taking place mostly in remote suburbs.

Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a traditionnal stand-off between the police
and the mob. The riotters are very young (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
and act very carefully to avoid the police. They burn some cars or buildings and go right
away. And they act in their suburbs only destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The question now is to find out who is actually
manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother" who may be a dealer, an extremist or
simply somebody who wants to make the news.

Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well known. France is a very generous
country. French citizenship is granted to whoever is born in France. Needless to say that
the impoverished population coming mostly from Africa is trying to make it through the
borders and most of the time at the risk of their life. France put on 9 millions people
during the last 25 years or 16% of the population. Simply put and very infortunately, we
cannot take care of that much misery. And people being left out get angry.
There might be as well some racial discrimination but to my knowledge and by experience
this is not common. I work in the third largest bank and more than a third of the workers
are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.

If you would like more information, let me know.

Valete,





Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae



__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38897 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France
Salve Scipe,

Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis going on in your nation. The media basically always dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event. Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not when) their own true community leaders will see to it that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a rare thing to have real news coming from a region undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that it will all be sorted out soon.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France


Salvete Omnes,

I would like to thank the citizens that did express concerns about the situation in
Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
and none has suffered from the riots.

Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I spent the day with my children downtown
Paris with not a single problem. The riots are taking place mostly in remote suburbs.

Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a traditionnal stand-off between the police
and the mob. The riotters are very young (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
and act very carefully to avoid the police. They burn some cars or buildings and go right
away. And they act in their suburbs only destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The question now is to find out who is actually
manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother" who may be a dealer, an extremist or
simply somebody who wants to make the news.

Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well known. France is a very generous
country. French citizenship is granted to whoever is born in France. Needless to say that
the impoverished population coming mostly from Africa is trying to make it through the
borders and most of the time at the risk of their life. France put on 9 millions people
during the last 25 years or 16% of the population. Simply put and very infortunately, we
cannot take care of that much misery. And people being left out get angry.
There might be as well some racial discrimination but to my knowledge and by experience
this is not common. I work in the third largest bank and more than a third of the workers
are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.

If you would like more information, let me know.

Valete,





Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae



__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38898 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salve M Lucretius Agricola,

<Of course I have no one person particularly in mind,
<I'm just writing about duty.

Wow, if I were the hypothetical Senator that you were
referring to in your email below, I would be
hypothetically insulted....

<Even a madman,were he garbed in Senatorial colors,
<should be given respect.

> Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> improperly it is the duty of a citizen to desist,
<even if that citizen feels it is wrong to do so.

> If a madman were to be found in purple

<even if one of them might be wholly rotten.

On the other hand, your email could apply to a number
of NR Senators.

{{Diana spots one of the Praetores across the Forum,
as usual keeping a close eye on her and so she quickly
types...}}

Just kidding :-)))

Vale,
Diana




__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38899 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salve Diana,

The Subura Bully Boys are always watching you, but for different reasons honey ;-)

Vale,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Octavia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins & deterring retention.


Salve M Lucretius Agricola,

<Of course I have no one person particularly in mind,
<I'm just writing about duty.

Wow, if I were the hypothetical Senator that you were
referring to in your email below, I would be
hypothetically insulted....

<Even a madman,were he garbed in Senatorial colors,
<should be given respect.

> Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> improperly it is the duty of a citizen to desist,
<even if that citizen feels it is wrong to do so.

> If a madman were to be found in purple

<even if one of them might be wholly rotten.

On the other hand, your email could apply to a number
of NR Senators.

{{Diana spots one of the Praetores across the Forum,
as usual keeping a close eye on her and so she quickly
types...}}

Just kidding :-)))

Vale,
Diana




__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38900 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
Salve omnes,

I agree that the subject of the Paris riots is NOT necesarily
off-topic- unless it degenerates into just another thread of
Islam-bashing or some such nonsense. When this discussion reaches that
point, it's time to either put it to bed or move it to another forum.

On the other hand, though, as we have Citizens who actually reside in
Gallia it would be amiss of us NOT to keep up with current events from
first-hand observers. Think of it this way- if YOU were Emperor,
would you want your reports from the provinces to come from
scandal-mongers in the neighborhoods, or from someone who had actually
BEEN there to see what is happening?

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stefanie Beer" <sbeer@n...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
> Why is this "off topic"? As far as I know this list serves as our "Forum
> Romanum" a place where all Roman citizens and visitors meet and talk
about
> everything. I am quite sure that on the original forum there were folks
> discussing politics, scandals, the best address to buy cloth or
wine, the
> latest games or races, their next neighbour´s broken leg or marriage
> problems - in short everything that is discussed everywhere when
people meet
>
> This is why I don´t think the Paris situation is off topic.
> (Plus the fact that I´m very interested in what goes on where - some
might
> call it nosey, other typically female;-))
> Valete optime!
> Lucia Flavia Lectrix
>
> -------Originalmeldung-------
>
> Von: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Datum: 11/06/05 10:53:07
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Paris (was Pilate)
>
> Salvete,
>
> this is an off-topic talk; however I am more than willing to explain
> privately what is
> going on in Paris. I live there.
>
> Valete,
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> Propraetor Galliae
>
> --- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> > Too much tolerance can be deadly. Just look at the
> > problems in Germany,the American
> > southwest,France,SPAIN,etc.For fear of a facist label
> > the WEST dones nil.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@d...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > These riots would be nothing new to the Romans;
> > check out about riots
> > > in Roman Alexandria. I'm sure they found that whole
> > middle east and its
> > > provincials a real pest hole at times.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38901 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: test
testing e-mail address
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38902 From: SVM STOICUS Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: test
Why you tested my email ?

Tutor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38903 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
Each Roman had to struggle to
improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
one had an unassailable right to respect.

True, except in the Roman military. There we had to have discipline because
we needed
it.

Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation. Since we don't have our
armed slaves,
or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to insult everybody else, with no
retribution possible. Respect in Rome was directly tied to auctoritas,
(political clout) patronage, wealth and power with the ability to hire thugs to
rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been with NR since the beginning, and
have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in service
to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
One here can have all the wealth and power in the world, but unless he is
willing to travel outside his limited boundaries in the actual world, it
impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and insults appear so freely on these
lists.

As for Apollonius callous disregard for his personal safety after making his
inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual world, he'd last thirty
seconds in the real republic.
<grin>

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38904 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
In a message dated 11/7/2005 3:56:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wm_hogue@... writes:
it is perfectly fine for you to
> insult a patrician magistrate (see "Cato the Clueless") while at the
> same time displaying an ignorance the likes of which would make the
> galley-slaves on a grain barge cringe,
Sigh...How exactly have I displayed any ignorance? Just because I didn't
attended a meeting in Europe, and haven't visited a website, whose files are
closed to non members?

And there were no galley slaves on a grain barge, so who is the idiot now?

Since when is Cato a Patrician Magistrate? I thought he left the Equiti to
form his
his own family, which makes him a plebeian. So he can insult me, and I can't
insult him back? What bazzare world is this?

I on the other hand am a former curule magistrate, even have my chair, though
its wood and not ivory, have almost completed the honorum and a Patrician,
raised to that station by the founder himself in recognition of my hard work to
the republic after the "constitutional wars" Only one other family was so
raised, the Minuci.
pull out the "I'm a senator" club again --- and imply that there might
> be....consequences?
Not at all. I just realized that if you are modest here, no one knows who
you are...
<grin>

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38905 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Salvete omnes,

Looking for some bully boys from Subura, Senator? You came to my aid in the militarium. I now come to your aid with my virtual gladius. Now everybody, please leave the Senator alone. Make way or get sliced ;-)

Seriously now: The senator does make a point here. Please be aware that although this is a virtual forum, we are also part of a real macro world. Sooner or later someone is going to get pissed off enough to take their anger out with violence in the macro world. Can you all imagine the headline in the New York Post: (That's right) -

ROMAN CULTIST KILLS OVER COIN SQUABBLE.

Lets let this crap go. It isn't worth it. Slinging insults will just lead to worse things. The Senator was entitled to his opinion as we all are. Whether you agree or not, please have some decorum towards the Senator. Please try to be civil to each other no matter who you are. We can vehemently disagree with each other without being disagreeable -ne? Remember, you too may become a Senator one day and you will not like being treated with disrespect either, whether you happen to be correct or incorrect in any discussion.

Cato, I respect you immensely. Now stop acting too much like your stoic namesake, amice. You have made your point well enough. Remember your Christian ethos - forgive. This little country of ours will not grow if the top people in it are busy feuding with each other.

Senator, it takes a long time to create personal dignitas but only instant to destroy it. Please guard your most precious possession in this micronation. Don't let your emotions rule your intellect.

Since I am a Karate Sensei I will have to quote an ancient martial arts law that I try to live by (I hope it helps to hear it here):

Never mix violence with anger. It is OK to be angry sometimes. Things can happen to make us angry and we should not ignore our emotions, let them pour out. Then there are times when violence is necessary, that is also OK. But when we mix the two, nothing good ever comes from it. Just like alcohol and driving, they don't mix well.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins & deterring retention.


In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
Each Roman had to struggle to
improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
one had an unassailable right to respect.

True, except in the Roman military. There we had to have discipline because
we needed
it.

Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation. Since we don't have our
armed slaves,
or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to insult everybody else, with no
retribution possible. Respect in Rome was directly tied to auctoritas,
(political clout) patronage, wealth and power with the ability to hire thugs to
rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been with NR since the beginning, and
have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in service
to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
One here can have all the wealth and power in the world, but unless he is
willing to travel outside his limited boundaries in the actual world, it
impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and insults appear so freely on these
lists.

As for Apollonius callous disregard for his personal safety after making his
inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual world, he'd last thirty
seconds in the real republic.
<grin>

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38906 From: CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Mari Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Respect and consideration
Salve Marce Cassi, et salvete quirites,

Marcus Cassius Philippus <senseiphil@...> writes:

> Please try to be civil to each other no matter who you are. We can
> vehemently disagree with each other without being disagreeable -ne?

You are -- of course -- entirely right. Rudeness and insults do nothing to
improve the clarity of the communication around here.

It is unfortunate that Q. Fabius Maximus has often chosen a needlessly
aggressive and even offensive style of presentation. This has resulted in a
number of people who've had past interactions with him feeling little in the
way of patience or forbearance toward the man. It doesn't help that he is
prone to self-aggrandizment, and would seem to want you to believe he
commands some controling voting bloc in the Senate. In truth, his influence
is quite limited, but he's perhaps unaware of his limitations.

So while I sympathize with those who have been making free with the zingers
against QFM, I ask you all to regard the wisdom that Philippus offers above.
Please try to be civil to one another, no matter who you are.

Vale, et valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38907 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit
Gaius Equitius Cato IS a Patrician, and he is a Quaestor.
Here is his link on the Nova Roma website:
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=7186
According to LEX EQUITIA DE FAMILIA it states:
"X. Emancipation
a. A paterfamilias and / or materfamilias may emancipate a person, thus
releasing him or her from potestas or manus, provided that he, she, or they
notify the praetores of the emancipation, and provided that five witnesses
who have the capacity to witness legal transactions also notify the
praetores that they bear witness.
b. A citizen who is alieni iuris and whose paterfamilias and / or
materfamilias refuses(s) to emancipate him or her may petition the
praetores; if the praetores, after consulting with the paterfamilias and /
or materfamilias, consider the refusal unreasonable, they may declare the
petitioner sui iuris."

Cato is an emancipated adult within Gens Equitia. People who join Gens
Equitia NOW join as a Plebeian. Cato joined Gens Equitia as a Patrician,
under the old legislation, so he is both a Patrician and because of election
a Quaestor.
From my understanding of our constitution it would take an act of the
Comitia Curiate (of which I am a member) for a person to change orders. For
Cato to become a Plebeian he would have to petition the Comitia Curiate:
"A. The comitia curiata (Assembly of Curiae) shall be made up of thirty
lictores curiati (lictors of the curia), appointed to their position by the
collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs). It shall be called to order by
the Pontifex Maximus, and the collegium pontificum shall set the rules by
which the comitia curiata shall operate internally. It shall have the
following responsibilities:

1. To invest elected and appointed magistrates with Imperium (which is
necessary to employ coercitio (the power to compel obedience to their
edicts), interpret and execute law, and possess the honor of being preceded
by lictors as a symbol of office), without right of refusal individually or
as a body;
2. To witness the appointment of official priests and priestesses of
the Religio Romana, adoptions, and the recording of wills.
3. To approve or reject the elevation of a plebeian family to the Ordo
Patricius;
4. To approve or reject an adoption that elevates a plebeian to the
Ordo Patricius or lowers a patrician to the Ordo Plebeius;
5. To approve or reject an application from a patrician who wishes to
renounce his status and become a member of the plebeian order."

I am suprised that you, as a long standing Consular and Senator, are unaware
of these points. These are simple points of Nova Roma law.
Vale;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
On 11/7/05, QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2005 3:56:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> wm_hogue@... writes:
> it is perfectly fine for you to
> > insult a patrician magistrate (see "Cato the Clueless") while at the
> > same time displaying an ignorance the likes of which would make the
> > galley-slaves on a grain barge cringe,
> Sigh...How exactly have I displayed any ignorance? Just because I didn't
> attended a meeting in Europe, and haven't visited a website, whose files
> are
> closed to non members?
>
> And there were no galley slaves on a grain barge, so who is the idiot now?
>
> Since when is Cato a Patrician Magistrate? I thought he left the Equiti to
> form his
> his own family, which makes him a plebeian. So he can insult me, and I
> can't
> insult him back? What bazzare world is this?
>
> I on the other hand am a former curule magistrate, even have my chair,
> though
> its wood and not ivory, have almost completed the honorum and a Patrician,
> raised to that station by the founder himself in recognition of my hard
> work to
> the republic after the "constitutional wars" Only one other family was so
> raised, the Minuci.
> pull out the "I'm a senator" club again --- and imply that there might
> > be....consequences?
> Not at all. I just realized that if you are modest here, no one knows who
> you are...
> <grin>
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38908 From: David Kling Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit
I'm not so sure I believe you when you state, "he'd [Cordus] last thirty
seconds in the real republic." I believe that the knowledge that Cordus
holds on Roman law, and his ability to reason would be sufficient to make
him worth protecting. If we were truly in ancient Rome I would surely use
"my" hired thugs to protect the likes of Cordus. As a patrician, and a
pontifex I imagine I would have my fair share of "thugs" to execute my
orders. :)
Vale;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus
On 11/7/05, QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
> Each Roman had to struggle to
> improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
> where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
> auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
> one had an unassailable right to respect.
>
> ---
>
> As for Apollonius callous disregard for his personal safety after making
> his
> inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual world, he'd last thirty
> seconds in the real republic.
> <grin>
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38909 From: annia@ciarin.com Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: The new coins
Salvete Omnes,

So, hopefully all that claptrap is behind us, and now we can get back to
discussing the topic that happens to have remained in the subject title?

I would also like to send my appreciation for all those trying to make this
project a success. And I'll surely purchase some coins as soon as they
become available. I only wish I had enough money to donate to this worthy
cause, but unfortunately Hurricane Wilma has forbidden it at this time.

Bona Fortuna!


Salvete,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38910 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salvete omnes,

Whilst looking for some materials and info on Roman gangs, I came
across this site. It looks to me like a re-enactment society with a
very impressive display. The reason I am posting it here is to show
how tough and demanding some societies can be and perhaps the
demands and requests of NR are mild in comparison and we are not so
hard done by. One does not seem to get in without some sponsors
already there, you are expected in various positions to contribute
15.00 / month, have equipment and display unquestionable loyalty to
the group and show up to their events. Also look down the list to an
example election candidate ballots and see if anything rings a bell
or perhaps is only coincidental.

My interest and loyality is to NR through thick and thin but it is
good to know what other competative groups are up to as well. With
my oilfield contractual work and being away half the year I could
not meet their commitments in a million years. Others with work
similar to mine, military or business owners or 80 hr/ week people
should count there blessings here I suppose.
Are any other citizens familiar with this group?

http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/ForumRomanum/mosmaiorum/mosmaioru
m.htm




Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

PS: I almost forgot! In their links section they give a brief but
glowing reccomendation for NR.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38911 From: Lucius Servilius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Animals ??
AVE, Omnes.

I have a question regarding animals in ancient Rome. My question is did the ancient Romans connect animals with Myths, Legends, Superstions, or Omens as many other cultures did and some do still today. Like the black cat crossing ones path etc. If so I would like to get some examples if possible. And where did the mythological creatures like the Horse with the mans torso and the winged lion come from.

Vale, L. Servilius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38912 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Animals ??
> Salue, L. Seruili, et saluete, omnes.
>
>
> AVE, Omnes.
>
> That would be Œavete/auete...¹
>
> I have a question regarding animals in ancient Rome. My question is did the
> ancient Romans connect animals with Myths, Legends, Superstions, or Omens as
> many other cultures did and some do still today. Like the black cat crossing
> ones path etc. If so I would like to get some examples if possible. And where
> did the mythological creatures like the Horse with the mans torso and the
> winged lion come from.
>
> ATS: While I am no expert on mythology or iconography, I can provide a
> bit of information. The mythological horse with a man¹s torso is called a
> centaur, and didn¹t always have the form we are accustomed to seeing. In
> early Greek art, centaurs were portrayed as men with a horse from just behind
> the forequarters backward growing out of the man¹s lower back, replacing the
> gluteus maximus muscle, etc. Some believe that this is what the ancients
> thought they were seeing when they first saw men on horseback; if memory
> serves, the mounted men would have been Hittites. The winged lion is a motif
> in Assyrian art, not infrequently adorned with a human head; Pegasus and
> various forms of griffin also occur in the ancient orient (Mesopotamia).
>
> Vale, L. Servilius
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
A. Tullia Scholastica


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38913 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Animals ??
Salve, I believe black dogs were taboo,especially
during public ceremony.If I am wrong someone will
correct me, Im sure.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<luciusserviliusprimus@...> wrote:
>
> AVE, Omnes.
>
> I have a question regarding animals in ancient Rome.
My question is did th
> e ancient Romans connect animals with Myths,
Legends, Superstions, or Omens
> as many other cultures did and some do still today.
Like the black cat cro
> ssing ones path etc. If so I would like to get some
examples if possible. A
> nd where did the mythological creatures like the
Horse with the mans torso
> and the winged lion come from.
>
> Vale, L. Servilius
>
>
>
>
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38914 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
I dont want to sound like a grade school kid but he
startedit.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Looking for some bully boys from Subura, Senator?
You came to my aid in the militarium. I now come to
your aid with my virtual gladius. Now everybody,
please leave the Senator alone. Make way or get sliced
;-)
>
> Seriously now: The senator does make a point here.
Please be aware that although this is a virtual forum,
we are also part of a real macro world. Sooner or
later someone is going to get pissed off enough to
take their anger out with violence in the macro world.
Can you all imagine the headline in the New York Post:
(That's right) -
>
> ROMAN CULTIST KILLS OVER COIN SQUABBLE.
>
> Lets let this crap go. It isn't worth it. Slinging
insults will just lead to worse things. The Senator
was entitled to his opinion as we all are. Whether you
agree or not, please have some decorum towards the
Senator. Please try to be civil to each other no
matter who you are. We can vehemently disagree with
each other without being disagreeable -ne? Remember,
you too may become a Senator one day and you will not
like being treated with disrespect either, whether you
happen to be correct or incorrect in any discussion.
>
> Cato, I respect you immensely. Now stop acting too
much like your stoic namesake, amice. You have made
your point well enough. Remember your Christian ethos
- forgive. This little country of ours will not grow
if the top people in it are busy feuding with each
other.
>
> Senator, it takes a long time to create personal
dignitas but only instant to destroy it. Please guard
your most precious possession in this micronation.
Don't let your emotions rule your intellect.
>
> Since I am a Karate Sensei I will have to quote an
ancient martial arts law that I try to live by (I hope
it helps to hear it here):
>
> Never mix violence with anger. It is OK to be angry
sometimes. Things can happen to make us angry and we
should not ignore our emotions, let them pour out.
Then there are times when violence is necessary, that
is also OK. But when we mix the two, nothing good ever
comes from it. Just like alcohol and driving, they
don't mix well.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins &
deterring retention.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific
Standard Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
> Each Roman had to struggle to
> improve his place in the pecking order or even to
stay
> where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
certain
> auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
No
> one had an unassailable right to respect.
>
> True, except in the Roman military. There we had
to have discipline because
> we needed
> it.
>
> Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation.
Since we don't have our
> armed slaves,
> or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to
insult everybody else, with no
> retribution possible. Respect in Rome was
directly tied to auctoritas,
> (political clout) patronage, wealth and power with
the ability to hire thugs to
> rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American
Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
> are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been
with NR since the beginning, and
> have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in
service
> to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
> One here can have all the wealth and power in the
world, but unless he is
> willing to travel outside his limited boundaries
in the actual world, it
> impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and
insults appear so freely on these
> lists.
>
> As for Apollonius callous disregard for his
personal safety after making his
> inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual
world, he'd last thirty
> seconds in the real republic.
> <grin>
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Fal
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38915 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salvete omnes,

I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their 'field time' between the Society for Creative Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.

The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges, etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.

I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on the field, as evidenced by their photographs from various battles they have posted on their website.

They do have rather strict membership requirements, but the majority of these are based primarily on actual battlefield participation and combat leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about governmental forms and historical naming and such, but are geared more towards battelfield operations than political machinations and such.

If anyone is interested in such an organization, I urge you to visit their website (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html) and see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into real-world practice.

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

============================================================
From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about

============================================================
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38916 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Salve,
Documentation outside NR and email correspondence with
the party involved is sufficient, at least, outside
NR.

Vale,
A.S.R.

--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius
> Regulus
> <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> > Why am I not listed? Marcus Cassius took my checks
> for
> M. Hortensia A. Sempronio Regulo spd;
> Salve; anyone taking Criminal Law knows
> 'fraud requires
> intent'. I suggest you check first before making an
> unsavory
> accusation. And take a more temperate tone you could
> be sued for
> libel, as you've done it in a public forum and in
> print and that
> really is the legal definition.
> vale
> M. Hortensia Major
>
>
> (1) NR Flags, (2) NR T-shirt, and (3) NR taxes.
> > He committed fraud on all counts to be pursued
> both
> > inside and outside NR.
> >
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>


A. Sempronius Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)









__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38917 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Paulinus,

This is an SCA unit. It is not in any way authentic in any of its acruetiments. They simple beat each other up with matted equipment. Granted it's a lot of fun but no where near as authentic as our re-enactment units.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
Miles - Legio III Cyrenaica
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salvete omnes,

Whilst looking for some materials and info on Roman gangs, I came
across this site. It looks to me like a re-enactment society with a
very impressive display. The reason I am posting it here is to show
how tough and demanding some societies can be and perhaps the
demands and requests of NR are mild in comparison and we are not so
hard done by. One does not seem to get in without some sponsors
already there, you are expected in various positions to contribute
15.00 / month, have equipment and display unquestionable loyalty to
the group and show up to their events. Also look down the list to an
example election candidate ballots and see if anything rings a bell
or perhaps is only coincidental.

My interest and loyality is to NR through thick and thin but it is
good to know what other competative groups are up to as well. With
my oilfield contractual work and being away half the year I could
not meet their commitments in a million years. Others with work
similar to mine, military or business owners or 80 hr/ week people
should count there blessings here I suppose.
Are any other citizens familiar with this group?

http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/ForumRomanum/mosmaiorum/mosmaioru
m.htm




Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

PS: I almost forgot! In their links section they give a brief but
glowing reccomendation for NR.







SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38918 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

My friend this website belongs to a Roman Legion reenacting group of long standing
and is as far as I know well thought of.
It was at one time listed as recognized by NR.
I believe it was withdrawn a few years ago because its
internal organizational structure was not compatible
with Nova Roma's in that, it has an imperial outlook
and has an self appointed Imperator at its head.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salvete omnes,

Whilst looking for some materials and info on Roman gangs, I came
across this site. It looks to me like a re-enactment society with a
very impressive display. The reason I am posting it here is to show
how tough and demanding some societies can be and perhaps the
demands and requests of NR are mild in comparison and we are not so
hard done by. One does not seem to get in without some sponsors
already there, you are expected in various positions to contribute
15.00 / month, have equipment and display unquestionable loyalty to
the group and show up to their events. Also look down the list to an
example election candidate ballots and see if anything rings a bell
or perhaps is only coincidental.

My interest and loyality is to NR through thick and thin but it is
good to know what other competative groups are up to as well. With
my oilfield contractual work and being away half the year I could
not meet their commitments in a million years. Others with work
similar to mine, military or business owners or 80 hr/ week people
should count there blessings here I suppose.
Are any other citizens familiar with this group?

http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/ForumRomanum/mosmaiorum/mosmaioru<http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/ForumRomanum/mosmaiorum/mosmaioru>
m.htm




Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

PS: I almost forgot! In their links section they give a brief but
glowing reccomendation for NR.







SPONSORED LINKS Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&c=1&s=30&.sig=_o5rQWqUgwZuR8ossa62Yg>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38919 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Salve,
Thank you for the sentiment, but read my prior replies
to this thread.
Vale,
Aulus Sempronius Regulus

--- Diana Octavia Aventina <dianaaventina@...>
wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Since the reply below is filled with '> > >', I'm
> not
> quite sure who sent it. But since A Tullia
> Scholastica
> forwarded the email, I'll assume that it came from
> her.
>
> <Perhaps, however, your long silence has
> > kept you from the knowledge that M. Cassius has
> <suffered the sudden loss of his father,
>
> I read this list everyday and also missed the fact
> that Cassius' father died. I would have offered my
> condolences.
>
> But don't jump on Semprius too hard... Since he did
> not know that Cassius' father died, as far as he is
> concerned, the checks have been cashed and he hasn't
> gotten anything in return for it. Anyone would be
> annoyed.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
>
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
>


A. Sempronius Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)









__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38920 From: Aulus Bianchius Pius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve,
I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the entire history of Britain there. I was there in full Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach dance] and it was amusing to have the English and Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or British]....anybody know for sure?

Valete

Aulus Bianchius Pius

Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their 'field time' between the Society for Creative Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.

The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges, etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.

I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on the field, as evidenced by their photographs from various battles they have posted on their website.

They do have rather strict membership requirements, but the majority of these are based primarily on actual battlefield participation and combat leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about governmental forms and historical naming and such, but are geared more towards battelfield operations than political machinations and such.

If anyone is interested in such an organization, I urge you to visit their website (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html) and see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into real-world practice.

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

============================================================
From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...>
Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about

============================================================






---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38921 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Salve Flavius,

Now, now brother, you are a police officer and you know that stupid things have a habit of escalating into nasty events. Many people are doing hard time right now because they lost their cool and hurt someone even though if they had though twice about it with a cool head they would have realized the absurdity of it. Neighbors and their spite fences is a typical scenario. Many a tragic situation has started with a small insult between friends that then escalated because of pride and unchecked egos. The only winners are the lawyers.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: raymond fuentes
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble


I dont want to sound like a grade school kid but he
startedit.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Looking for some bully boys from Subura, Senator?
You came to my aid in the militarium. I now come to
your aid with my virtual gladius. Now everybody,
please leave the Senator alone. Make way or get sliced
;-)
>
> Seriously now: The senator does make a point here.
Please be aware that although this is a virtual forum,
we are also part of a real macro world. Sooner or
later someone is going to get pissed off enough to
take their anger out with violence in the macro world.
Can you all imagine the headline in the New York Post:
(That's right) -
>
> ROMAN CULTIST KILLS OVER COIN SQUABBLE.
>
> Lets let this crap go. It isn't worth it. Slinging
insults will just lead to worse things. The Senator
was entitled to his opinion as we all are. Whether you
agree or not, please have some decorum towards the
Senator. Please try to be civil to each other no
matter who you are. We can vehemently disagree with
each other without being disagreeable -ne? Remember,
you too may become a Senator one day and you will not
like being treated with disrespect either, whether you
happen to be correct or incorrect in any discussion.
>
> Cato, I respect you immensely. Now stop acting too
much like your stoic namesake, amice. You have made
your point well enough. Remember your Christian ethos
- forgive. This little country of ours will not grow
if the top people in it are busy feuding with each
other.
>
> Senator, it takes a long time to create personal
dignitas but only instant to destroy it. Please guard
your most precious possession in this micronation.
Don't let your emotions rule your intellect.
>
> Since I am a Karate Sensei I will have to quote an
ancient martial arts law that I try to live by (I hope
it helps to hear it here):
>
> Never mix violence with anger. It is OK to be angry
sometimes. Things can happen to make us angry and we
should not ignore our emotions, let them pour out.
Then there are times when violence is necessary, that
is also OK. But when we mix the two, nothing good ever
comes from it. Just like alcohol and driving, they
don't mix well.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins &
deterring retention.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific
Standard Time,
> a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:
> Each Roman had to struggle to
> improve his place in the pecking order or even to
stay
> where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
certain
> auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
No
> one had an unassailable right to respect.
>
> True, except in the Roman military. There we had
to have discipline because
> we needed
> it.
>
> Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation.
Since we don't have our
> armed slaves,
> or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to
insult everybody else, with no
> retribution possible. Respect in Rome was
directly tied to auctoritas,
> (political clout) patronage, wealth and power with
the ability to hire thugs to
> rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American
Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
> are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been
with NR since the beginning, and
> have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in
service
> to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
> One here can have all the wealth and power in the
world, but unless he is
> willing to travel outside his limited boundaries
in the actual world, it
> impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and
insults appear so freely on these
> lists.
>
> As for Apollonius callous disregard for his
personal safety after making his
> inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual
world, he'd last thirty
> seconds in the real republic.
> <grin>
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Fal
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38922 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Pius.

The Roman Empire was 47000 square miles at its height, while the
British Empire was 13.8 million square miles (that doesn't include the
oceans which we ruled de facto).

Vale
Gn. Iulius Caesar

<<It was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree on whose
empire was bigger? [Roman, or British]....anybody know for sure?
>
> Valete
>
> Aulus Bianchius Pius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38923 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Correction: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Pius.

I rechecked as that seemed rather small for the Roman Empire, so
allow me to correct my error, it was apparently 2.5 million square
miles at its height.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Pius.
>
> The Roman Empire was 47000 square miles at its height, while the
> British Empire was 13.8 million square miles (that doesn't include
the
> oceans which we ruled de facto).
>
> Vale
> Gn. Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38924 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Correction: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salvete

This is approximately the same size as the province of Canada Occidentalis. But I would trade Calgary for Rome anyday!

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

(ps. Flames suck)

Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
Salve Pius.

I rechecked as that seemed rather small for the Roman Empire, so
allow me to correct my error, it was apparently 2.5 million square
miles at its height.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Pius.
>
> The Roman Empire was 47000 square miles at its height, while the
> British Empire was 13.8 million square miles (that doesn't include
the
> oceans which we ruled de facto).
>
> Vale
> Gn. Iulius Caesar







SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire Roman empire

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38925 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
So lets kill all the lawyers. Just kidding. Youre
right.Silly fights were all too common in the Army
after a couple of beers & lets not mention New
Yorkers!
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salve Flavius,
>
> Now, now brother, you are a police officer and you
know that stupid things have a habit of escalating
into nasty events. Many people are doing hard time
right now because they lost their cool and hurt
someone even though if they had though twice about it
with a cool head they would have realized the
absurdity of it. Neighbors and their spite fences is a
typical scenario. Many a tragic situation has started
with a small insult between friends that then
escalated because of pride and unchecked egos. The
only winners are the lawyers.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: raymond fuentes
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Cultist
Kills Over Coin Squabble
>
>
> I dont want to sound like a grade school kid but
he
> startedit.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Looking for some bully boys from Subura,
Senator?
> You came to my aid in the militarium. I now come
to
> your aid with my virtual gladius. Now everybody,
> please leave the Senator alone. Make way or get
sliced
> ;-)
> >
> > Seriously now: The senator does make a point
here.
> Please be aware that although this is a virtual
forum,
> we are also part of a real macro world. Sooner or
> later someone is going to get pissed off enough to
> take their anger out with violence in the macro
world.
> Can you all imagine the headline in the New York
Post:
> (That's right) -
> >
> > ROMAN CULTIST KILLS OVER COIN SQUABBLE.
> >
> > Lets let this crap go. It isn't worth it.
Slinging
> insults will just lead to worse things. The
Senator
> was entitled to his opinion as we all are. Whether
you
> agree or not, please have some decorum towards the
> Senator. Please try to be civil to each other no
> matter who you are. We can vehemently disagree
with
> each other without being disagreeable -ne?
Remember,
> you too may become a Senator one day and you will
not
> like being treated with disrespect either, whether
you
> happen to be correct or incorrect in any
discussion.
> >
> > Cato, I respect you immensely. Now stop acting
too
> much like your stoic namesake, amice. You have
made
> your point well enough. Remember your Christian
ethos
> - forgive. This little country of ours will not
grow
> if the top people in it are busy feuding with each
> other.
> >
> > Senator, it takes a long time to create personal
> dignitas but only instant to destroy it. Please
guard
> your most precious possession in this micronation.
> Don't let your emotions rule your intellect.
> >
> > Since I am a Karate Sensei I will have to quote
an
> ancient martial arts law that I try to live by (I
hope
> it helps to hear it here):
> >
> > Never mix violence with anger. It is OK to be
angry
> sometimes. Things can happen to make us angry and
we
> should not ignore our emotions, let them pour out.
> Then there are times when violence is necessary,
that
> is also OK. But when we mix the two, nothing good
ever
> comes from it. Just like alcohol and driving, they
> don't mix well.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins &
> deterring retention.
> >
> >
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38926 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<gregory_seeley@...> wrote:
> Salve,
> I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
British]....anybody know for sure?
>
> Valete
>
> Aulus Bianchius Pius
>
> Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@...>
wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
'field time' between the Society for Creative
Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
>
> The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
>
> I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
various battles they have posted on their website.
>
> They do have rather strict membership requirements,
but the majority of these are based primarily on
actual battlefield participation and combat
leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
are geared more towards battelfield operations than
political machinations and such.
>
> If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
urge you to visit their website
(http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html) and
see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
real-world practice.
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
>
============================================================
> From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
<mjk@...>
> Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
think about
>
>
============================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38927 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Phillipe et salvete omnes,

Yes, it is true that ROME- as well as most other fighting groups- is nowehere near as authentic as true re-enactment groups, nor do they pretend to be. Authenticity comes at a price when it comes to 'playability' on the fighting field. That price, unfortunately, is usually paid in blood and broken bones- I know, I've been there and done that all in the name of 'authenticity'. In my case, I tried to go strictly by the fighting standards of the SCA- their 'conventional rules' state (basically) that all armor is considered to be a close helm (read: Norman helm with a nasal guard) and a maille hauberk. I made my own hauberk and obtained a legal helm and other required pieces of armor and set about it. It didn't take very long to figure out that while maille is excellent for stopping slashes and minor scrapes, it does absolutely nothing to stop mass weapons such as maces or, for that matter, the rattan swords used in the SCA. Rattan sword= baseball bat. Granted this happened in my fairly early days, but I still managed to gather a cracked collar bone and various cracked ribs over the year or so that I fought like that. That's why in the SCA you see people with 'Viking' or 'Saracen' personae running around in full plate armor- you need it for protection out there! Once the swords- and maces, and halberd, and spears- start flying, authenticity goes out the window.

We all have something to learn from each other, be you in an online group a la Nova Roma, or a truly authenticity-minded reenactment group (the Legio XX comes to mind- do a web search for them), or a fighting group such as ROME. We in Nova Roma talk about rebuilding the greatness of ancient Rome and resurrecting its institutions; reenactment groups strive to reproduce the 'way it was' down to the last sandal strap; and groups like ROME train and fight like the Legions of old while being relatively safe. Every group has something to contribute to the greater good.

Vale, et valete,

G Licinius Crassus


============================================================
From: "Sensei Phil Perez" <senseiphil@...>
Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 08:19:12 CST
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about

============================================================
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38928 From: Lucius Servilius Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
Salvete Omnes.

I sure am glad that chairs can not be thrown over the web. This is starting to resemble the chineese senate meetings. Is this the way things would have been handled in ancient rome. I would really like to know.

Vale L. Servilius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sensei Phil Perez" <senseiphil@n...> wrote:
>
> Salve Flavius,
>
> Now, now brother, you are a police officer and you know that stupid things have a habit of escalating into nasty events. Many people are doing hard time right now because they lost their cool and hurt someone even though if they had though twice about it with a cool head they would have realized the absurdity of it. Neighbors and their spite fences is a typical scenario. Many a tragic situation has started with a small insult between friends that then escalated because of pride and unchecked egos. The only winners are the lawyers.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: raymond fuentes
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Cultist Kills Over Coin Squabble
>
>
> I dont want to sound like a grade school kid but he
> startedit.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> senseiphil@n... wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Looking for some bully boys from Subura, Senator?
> You came to my aid in the militarium. I now come to
> your aid with my virtual gladius. Now everybody,
> please leave the Senator alone. Make way or get sliced
> ;-)
> >
> > Seriously now: The senator does make a point here.
> Please be aware that although this is a virtual forum,
> we are also part of a real macro world. Sooner or
> later someone is going to get pissed off enough to
> take their anger out with violence in the macro world.
> Can you all imagine the headline in the New York Post:
> (That's right) -
> >
> > ROMAN CULTIST KILLS OVER COIN SQUABBLE.
> >
> > Lets let this crap go. It isn't worth it. Slinging
> insults will just lead to worse things. The Senator
> was entitled to his opinion as we all are. Whether you
> agree or not, please have some decorum towards the
> Senator. Please try to be civil to each other no
> matter who you are. We can vehemently disagree with
> each other without being disagreeable -ne? Remember,
> you too may become a Senator one day and you will not
> like being treated with disrespect either, whether you
> happen to be correct or incorrect in any discussion.
> >
> > Cato, I respect you immensely. Now stop acting too
> much like your stoic namesake, amice. You have made
> your point well enough. Remember your Christian ethos
> - forgive. This little country of ours will not grow
> if the top people in it are busy feuding with each
> other.
> >
> > Senator, it takes a long time to create personal
> dignitas but only instant to destroy it. Please guard
> your most precious possession in this micronation.
> Don't let your emotions rule your intellect.
> >
> > Since I am a Karate Sensei I will have to quote an
> ancient martial arts law that I try to live by (I hope
> it helps to hear it here):
> >
> > Never mix violence with anger. It is OK to be angry
> sometimes. Things can happen to make us angry and we
> should not ignore our emotions, let them pour out.
> Then there are times when violence is necessary, that
> is also OK. But when we mix the two, nothing good ever
> comes from it. Just like alcohol and driving, they
> don't mix well.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: QFabiusMaxmi@a...
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The new coins &
> deterring retention.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/7/2005 4:37:40 AM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> > a_apollonius_cordus@y... writes:
> > Each Roman had to struggle to
> > improve his place in the pecking order or even to
> stay
> > where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
> certain
> > auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
> No
> > one had an unassailable right to respect.
> >
> > True, except in the Roman military. There we had
> to have discipline because
> > we needed
> > it.
> >
> > Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation.
> Since we don't have our
> > armed slaves,
> > or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to
> insult everybody else, with no
> > retribution possible. Respect in Rome was
> directly tied to auctoritas,
> > (political clout) patronage, wealth and power with
> the ability to hire thugs to
> > rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American
> Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
> > are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been
> with NR since the beginning, and
> > have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in
> service
> > to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
> > One here can have all the wealth and power in the
> world, but unless he is
> > willing to travel outside his limited boundaries
> in the actual world, it
> > impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and
> insults appear so freely on these
> > lists.
> >
> > As for Apollonius callous disregard for his
> personal safety after making his
> > inflammatory statements while safe in our virtual
> world, he'd last thirty
> > seconds in the real republic.
> > <grin>
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Fal
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38929 From: Maior Date: 2005-11-07
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
-Salve Regule;
I'm not here to fight. But I can tell you as a former lawyer,
admitted to the bar, that your remedy under the UCC (Uniform
Commercial Code) is either the goods or your money back, which is
perfectly fair.
I'm very fond of our Pontifex Maximus, who is a tad forgetful
but he has not an unkind bone in his body.
By the by, did you take out the Saso book on Goma ritual? (either
UNC lib. or Duke) I'll be learning this in a year or two!
vale
Marca Hortensia Major


-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
<a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> Documentation outside NR and email correspondence with
> the party involved is sufficient, at least, outside
> NR.
>
> Vale,
> A.S.R.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38930 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve.

The British Empire was larger. Square miles are square
miles...spread out or not. That is the whole point of measuring in
square miles - it condenses areas of different shapes to a common
measurement.

As for the American "Empire", you don't have one. Until such time as
your nation starts annexing large chunks of the world and planting
its flag, introducing American law and government bodies, all you
have is a sphere of influence, and economic muscle, but not an
empire in the accepted sense. It maybe a lot easier for you as a
nation (and probably the rest of the world) if you resolved this
very issue, but I suspect given your nation's revolutionary birth
and historic aversion to imperialism moving to a true imperial power
may not be easy.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
> the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gregory_seeley@s...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> > I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
> SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
> entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
> Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
> dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
> Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
> was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
> on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
> British]....anybody know for sure?
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Aulus Bianchius Pius
> >
> > Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
> post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
> regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
> city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
> primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
> 'field time' between the Society for Creative
> Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
> >
> > The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
> rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
> Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
> instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
> SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
> full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
> etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
> >
> > I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
> it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
> FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
> the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
> various battles they have posted on their website.
> >
> > They do have rather strict membership requirements,
> but the majority of these are based primarily on
> actual battlefield participation and combat
> leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
> governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
> are geared more towards battelfield operations than
> political machinations and such.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
> urge you to visit their website
> (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html) and
> see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
> real-world practice.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> > From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
> <mjk@d...>
> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
> think about
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38931 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.


It comes to me that your position is a perfectly suited on for a
person such as yourself, and please take no offence when I speak the
word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up hills and do
everything else needed to challenge authority. This sort of challenge
can be a very good thing, but it must also be balanced by a
stabilizing force.

The brake on this system is of course the weight of the patrician
class. Only through application of this brake can we be sure that
change will not become a headlong rush to disaster.

I think it is common knowledge that these two classes were bound
together by bonds of blood, of language, of respect in common for the
Immortals, and of a common culture. Strong ties these were indeed, and
if the Deathless Ones favor us we will forge them anew.

In common all Romans regard the name of "king" with hatred, and love
the freedom of the Res Publica above all.

I will leave it to others to advance the wheels of change, while it is
my lot to give deference to offices, while I hope that Those Who Are
Forever see fit to bless us more commonly with persons of talent and
discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
>
> > From ancient times, our community was led by a body
> > of Senatores. They
> > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > leadership. Even a madman,
> > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be given
> > respect. To do
> > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the heart of
> > the State.
>
> My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This is
> nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals of
> republican history are filled with very little else
> than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> republican constitution as we know it was formed by a
> century of organized civil disobedience by the urban
> plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At the
> Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the story of
> how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a quaestor at
> the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> because he refused to obey the orders of the presiding
> magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> naturally submissive to authority. Their society was,
> it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically so,
> not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> improve his place in the pecking order or even to stay
> where he was. Once at the top one acquired a certain
> auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost. No
> one had an unassailable right to respect.
>
> > Now when a Senator says that something is being done
> > improperly it is
> > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > citizen feels it is
> > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius tells us
> > how to bear this
> > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully see
> > things done our way.
>
> Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his little
> book the republic had been dead for more than a
> century. His words take us into the mind of the
> submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the principate,
> not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
>
> Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which gave
> Aurelius and his contemporaries their submissive
> mindset was alien to the republican mind. Only in the
> last few generations of the republic did stoicism have
> any sort of hold on the aristocratic consciousness,
> and even then it was a very Romanized sort of
> stoicism. The most stoic of them all was young Cato,
> he who refused to obey a consul and had to be dragged
> from the rostra; and not far behind him was Cicero,
> who can hardly be accused of deferring to those he did
> not respect.
>
> Stoicism was a philosophy developed in Greece at a
> time when democracy was broken-backed, the Greek
> cities were enslaved by one Hellenistic king after
> another, and thinking men felt they had no control of
> their own destinies; accordingly they developed a
> philosophy of acceptance, submission, and social
> immobility. It's no coincidence that it became popular
> at Rome at precisely the time when people who would
> once have been leaders of a free republic were now at
> the mercy first of feuding warlords and then of
> autocrats.
>
> The republican spirit is a fighting spirit. It is
> dynamic and vigorous. Where it sees injustice, it
> challenges injustice, no matter who perpetrates it.
> What other ancient state put members of its own
> aristocracy on public trial for oppressing foreigners
> and bringing the state into disrepute with its allies?
> We have a duty, yes, but it's a duty to the republic,
> not to this or that individual. If someone is doing
> harm to the republic our duty is to challenge, not to
> submit. We are not subjects of monarchs who rule by
> divine right but citizens governed by magistrates who
> serve at our pleasure and suffrage and subject to the
> law. To think otherwise is to invite autocracy.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
> snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38932 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Here in New York they are not covering it at all &
when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the Stockholm
Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being used.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salve Scipe,
>
> Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis
going on in your nation. The media basically always
dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event.
Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what
you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not
when) their own true community leaders will see to it
that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the
authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a
rare thing to have real news coming from a region
undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a
career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that
it will all be sorted out soon.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I would like to thank the citizens that did
express concerns about the situation in
> Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no
direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
> and none has suffered from the riots.
>
> Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike
what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
> not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I
spent the day with my children downtown
> Paris with not a single problem. The riots are
taking place mostly in remote suburbs.
>
> Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a
traditionnal stand-off between the police
> and the mob. The riotters are very young
(sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
> and act very carefully to avoid the police. They
burn some cars or buildings and go right
> away. And they act in their suburbs only
destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
> typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The
question now is to find out who is actually
> manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother"
who may be a dealer, an extremist or
> simply somebody who wants to make the news.
>
> Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well
known. France is a very generous
> country. French citizenship is granted to whoever
is born in France. Needless to say that
> the impoverished population coming mostly from
Africa is trying to make it through the
> borders and most of the time at the risk of their
life. France put on 9 millions people
> during the last 25 years or 16% of the population.
Simply put and very infortunately, we
> cannot take care of that much misery. And people
being left out get angry.
> There might be as well some racial discrimination
but to my knowledge and by experience
> this is not common. I work in the third largest
bank and more than a third of the workers
> are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.
>
> If you would like more information, let me know.
>
> Valete,
>
>
>
>
>
> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
>
> Propraetor Galliae
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38933 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
How do words betwixt two citizens turn into a class
struggle? Unless you know either of these cives
personally the plebian might be a tycoon in the
macroworld.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <wm_hogue@...>
wrote:
> M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.
>
>
> It comes to me that your position is a perfectly
suited on for a
> person such as yourself, and please take no offence
when I speak the
> word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up
hills and do
> everything else needed to challenge authority. This
sort of challenge
> can be a very good thing, but it must also be
balanced by a
> stabilizing force.
>
> The brake on this system is of course the weight of
the patrician
> class. Only through application of this brake can we
be sure that
> change will not become a headlong rush to disaster.
>
> I think it is common knowledge that these two
classes were bound
> together by bonds of blood, of language, of respect
in common for the
> Immortals, and of a common culture. Strong ties
these were indeed, and
> if the Deathless Ones favor us we will forge them
anew.
>
> In common all Romans regard the name of "king" with
hatred, and love
> the freedom of the Res Publica above all.
>
> I will leave it to others to advance the wheels of
change, while it is
> my lot to give deference to offices, while I hope
that Those Who Are
> Forever see fit to bless us more commonly with
persons of talent and
> discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius
Cordus"
> <a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
> >
> > > From ancient times, our community was led by a
body
> > > of Senatores. They
> > > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > > leadership. Even a madman,
> > > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be
given
> > > respect. To do
> > > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the
heart of
> > > the State.
> >
> > My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This
is
> > nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals
of
> > republican history are filled with very little
else
> > than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> > republican constitution as we know it was formed
by a
> > century of organized civil disobedience by the
urban
> > plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At
the
> > Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the
story of
> > how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a
quaestor at
> > the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> > because he refused to obey the orders of the
presiding
> > magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> > naturally submissive to authority. Their society
was,
> > it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically
so,
> > not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> > improve his place in the pecking order or even to
stay
> > where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
certain
> > auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
No
> > one had an unassailable right to respect.
> >
> > > Now when a Senator says that something is being
done
> > > improperly it is
> > > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > > citizen feels it is
> > > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius
tells us
> > > how to bear this
> > > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully
see
> > > things done our way.
> >
> > Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his
little
> > book the republic had been dead for more than a
> > century. His words take us into the mind of the
> > submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the
principate,
> > not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
> >
> > Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which
gave
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38934 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> How do words betwixt two citizens turn into a class
> struggle? Unless you know either of these cives
> personally the plebian might be a tycoon in the
> macroworld.

My friend, they don't. It is just a conversation between two citizens,
who also happen to be aquainted with each other. I'm pretty sure A.
Apollonius is not a tycoon, or if he is, he is an unusually discrete one.

I'm trying to explain to my friend why I felt it was necessary to drop
out of the new coin project when a Senator said certain things in
public against the propriety of the project (in which I played a
certain part). That project is for me in the past now, and forgotten.
Now two friends are having a discussion. Nothing more.

I'm still here, by the way, and already have a new project in hand,
I'll talk about that later, when it is more mature. I hope that
doesn't sound like it is a secret.

Optime vale

M. Lucr. Agricola


> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <wm_hogue@y...>
> wrote:
> > M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.
> >
> >
> > It comes to me that your position is a perfectly
> suited on for a
> > person such as yourself, and please take no offence
> when I speak the
> > word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up
> hills and do
> > everything else needed to challenge authority. This
> sort of challenge
> > can be a very good thing, but it must also be
> balanced by a
> > stabilizing force.
> >
> > The brake on this system is of course the weight of
> the patrician
> > class. Only through application of this brake can we
> be sure that
> > change will not become a headlong rush to disaster.
> >
> > I think it is common knowledge that these two
> classes were bound
> > together by bonds of blood, of language, of respect
> in common for the
> > Immortals, and of a common culture. Strong ties
> these were indeed, and
> > if the Deathless Ones favor us we will forge them
> anew.
> >
> > In common all Romans regard the name of "king" with
> hatred, and love
> > the freedom of the Res Publica above all.
> >
> > I will leave it to others to advance the wheels of
> change, while it is
> > my lot to give deference to offices, while I hope
> that Those Who Are
> > Forever see fit to bless us more commonly with
> persons of talent and
> > discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius
> Cordus"
> > <a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
> > >
> > > > From ancient times, our community was led by a
> body
> > > > of Senatores. They
> > > > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > > > leadership. Even a madman,
> > > > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be
> given
> > > > respect. To do
> > > > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the
> heart of
> > > > the State.
> > >
> > > My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This
> is
> > > nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals
> of
> > > republican history are filled with very little
> else
> > > than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> > > republican constitution as we know it was formed
> by a
> > > century of organized civil disobedience by the
> urban
> > > plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At
> the
> > > Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the
> story of
> > > how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a
> quaestor at
> > > the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> > > because he refused to obey the orders of the
> presiding
> > > magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> > > naturally submissive to authority. Their society
> was,
> > > it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically
> so,
> > > not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> > > improve his place in the pecking order or even to
> stay
> > > where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
> certain
> > > auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
> No
> > > one had an unassailable right to respect.
> > >
> > > > Now when a Senator says that something is being
> done
> > > > improperly it is
> > > > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > > > citizen feels it is
> > > > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius
> tells us
> > > > how to bear this
> > > > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully
> see
> > > > things done our way.
> > >
> > > Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his
> little
> > > book the republic had been dead for more than a
> > > century. His words take us into the mind of the
> > > submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the
> principate,
> > > not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
> > >
> > > Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which
> gave
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38935 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salve Marce Lucreti.

I think that Roman politicians and statesmen were no different than
their counterparts throughout the ages. When you say:

<snipped> "...bless us more commonly with persons of talent and
discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast."

there is an inherent inference that those in power who
display "bluster and bombast" are in a group that precludes "talent
and discretion". The former set of qualities can be found in those
who without question have exhibited the latter and vice-versa. They
are not mutually exclusive, rather they are inclusive and intrinsic
qualities of most politicians and statesmen, Roman or otherwise.

The ancient sources were often penned far after the events in
question that they describe, often from scant source material, often
with a patron in mind to please (and in the imperial age one had to
be very careful about content, for mistakes could prove fatal) and
to satiate an audience imbued with their nation's greatness. Hardly
any wonder then that some of the accounts should be treated more as
nationalistic propaganda and alternative historical fiction, than as
objective accounts.

Therefore I suggest that pen pictures of the wise old statesmen of
Rome don't always reflect that to survive in the often vicious and
deadly environment of Roman politics required as much "bluster and
bombast" as "talent and discretion". Cicero and Cato immediately
spring to mind.

We should bear in mind that the accounts of history are frequently
shaped by the victor, in either the political or military sphere,
and that those that survive and last the longest have an increased
chance of carving their own niche in history, which at the very
least is likely to be more favourable than their defeated "foes".

So let's not assume that those that exhibit what you may
term "bluster and bombast" don't also possess "talent and
discretion". This is as true today as it was in Ancient Rome.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@y...> wrote:
>
> M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.
>
>
> It comes to me that your position is a perfectly suited on for a
> person such as yourself, and please take no offence when I speak
the
> word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up hills and do
> everything else needed to challenge authority. This sort of
challenge
> can be a very good thing, but it must also be balanced by a
> stabilizing force.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38936 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Salve omnes,

Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media soft-pedaling of the
issue! I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present admnistration? Then
again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what would the ancient Senate
have done? Refrained from discussing foreign unrest in public, or keep
the citizens informed and take steps to prevent such an occurrence?

Perhaps these are questions that need no answer, but something to think
about nevertheless...

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

raymond fuentes wrote:

> Here in New York they are not covering it at all &
> when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the Stockholm
> Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being used.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > Salve Scipe,
> >
> > Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis
> going on in your nation. The media basically always
> dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event.
> Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what
> you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not
> when) their own true community leaders will see to it
> that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the
> authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a
> rare thing to have real news coming from a region
> undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a
> career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that
> it will all be sorted out soon.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France
> >
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I would like to thank the citizens that did
> express concerns about the situation in
> > Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no
> direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
> > and none has suffered from the riots.
> >
> > Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike
> what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
> > not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I
> spent the day with my children downtown
> > Paris with not a single problem. The riots are
> taking place mostly in remote suburbs.
> >
> > Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a
> traditionnal stand-off between the police
> > and the mob. The riotters are very young
> (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
> > and act very carefully to avoid the police. They
> burn some cars or buildings and go right
> > away. And they act in their suburbs only
> destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
> > typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The
> question now is to find out who is actually
> > manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother"
> who may be a dealer, an extremist or
> > simply somebody who wants to make the news.
> >
> > Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well
> known. France is a very generous
> > country. French citizenship is granted to whoever
> is born in France. Needless to say that
> > the impoverished population coming mostly from
> Africa is trying to make it through the
> > borders and most of the time at the risk of their
> life. France put on 9 millions people
> > during the last 25 years or 16% of the population.
> Simply put and very infortunately, we
> > cannot take care of that much misery. And people
> being left out get angry.
> > There might be as well some racial discrimination
> but to my knowledge and by experience
> > this is not common. I work in the third largest
> bank and more than a third of the workers
> > are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.
> >
> > If you would like more information, let me know.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> >
> > Propraetor Galliae
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38937 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,

I completely agree that America does not yet have a traditional Empire-
although it may as well, as much as we seem to have our fingers in
everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are correct in that it would be
better for us- and the world- if we were to resolve the issue and decide
what our nation's true course is going to be. At present, it seems we
are simply 'flying on autopilot' until we have to react to another
crisis that will reshape our society yet again, and not necessarily to
our benefit.

However, and this relates to the thread regarding the reenactment
groups, how can we as Nova Romans parlay the vast storehouse of
knowledge obviously possessed by our members into real, concrete action
'in the field' to put together an all-encompassing organization that
covers all aspects of Roman culture? With the obvious benefit if having
a large pool of potential recruits among reenactors as well as
Roman-flavored fighting groups, it would seem an obvious match. Perhaps
it could be the beginning of a group greater than the sum of its parts.
We have all of this knowledge and scholarship available; it seems almost
a crime not to translate that into real-world activities.

Again another post in my humble opinion, but something to think about.

Vale, et valete,

G Licinius Crassus

Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:

> Salve.
>
> The British Empire was larger. Square miles are square
> miles...spread out or not. That is the whole point of measuring in
> square miles - it condenses areas of different shapes to a common
> measurement.
>
> As for the American "Empire", you don't have one. Until such time as
> your nation starts annexing large chunks of the world and planting
> its flag, introducing American law and government bodies, all you
> have is a sphere of influence, and economic muscle, but not an
> empire in the accepted sense. It maybe a lot easier for you as a
> nation (and probably the rest of the world) if you resolved this
> very issue, but I suspect given your nation's revolutionary birth
> and historic aversion to imperialism moving to a true imperial power
> may not be easy.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
> > the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <gregory_seeley@s...> wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > > I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
> > SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
> > entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
> > Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
> > dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
> > Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
> > was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
> > on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
> > British]....anybody know for sure?
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > > Aulus Bianchius Pius
> > >
> > > Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
> > post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
> > regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
> > city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
> > primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
> > 'field time' between the Society for Creative
> > Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
> > >
> > > The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
> > rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
> > Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
> > instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
> > SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
> > full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
> > etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
> > >
> > > I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
> > it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
> > FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
> > the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
> > various battles they have posted on their website.
> > >
> > > They do have rather strict membership requirements,
> > but the majority of these are based primarily on
> > actual battlefield participation and combat
> > leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
> > governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
> > are geared more towards battelfield operations than
> > political machinations and such.
> > >
> > > If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
> > urge you to visit their website
> > (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html)
> <http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html%29> and
> > see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
> > real-world practice.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > G Licinius Crassus
> > >
> > >
> > ============================================================
> > > From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
> > <mjk@d...>
> > > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
> > think about
> > >
> > >
> > ============================================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38938 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Class war! I love it! Shades of Red October! Down with the Running Dog
Lackeys of Imperialist Capitalist.....oh, wait. Wrong Group.

With tongue firmly in cheek...

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus


raymond fuentes wrote:

> How do words betwixt two citizens turn into a class
> struggle? Unless you know either of these cives
> personally the plebian might be a tycoon in the
> macroworld.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <wm_hogue@...>
> wrote:
> > M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.
> >
> >
> > It comes to me that your position is a perfectly
> suited on for a
> > person such as yourself, and please take no offence
> when I speak the
> > word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up
> hills and do
> > everything else needed to challenge authority. This
> sort of challenge
> > can be a very good thing, but it must also be
> balanced by a
> > stabilizing force.
> >
> > The brake on this system is of course the weight of
> the patrician
> > class. Only through application of this brake can we
> be sure that
> > change will not become a headlong rush to disaster.
> >
> > I think it is common knowledge that these two
> classes were bound
> > together by bonds of blood, of language, of respect
> in common for the
> > Immortals, and of a common culture. Strong ties
> these were indeed, and
> > if the Deathless Ones favor us we will forge them
> anew.
> >
> > In common all Romans regard the name of "king" with
> hatred, and love
> > the freedom of the Res Publica above all.
> >
> > I will leave it to others to advance the wheels of
> change, while it is
> > my lot to give deference to offices, while I hope
> that Those Who Are
> > Forever see fit to bless us more commonly with
> persons of talent and
> > discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius
> Cordus"
> > <a_apollonius_cordus@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.
> > >
> > > > From ancient times, our community was led by a
> body
> > > > of Senatores. They
> > > > deserve respect for taking on the burden of
> > > > leadership. Even a madman,
> > > > were he garbed in Senatorial colors, should be
> given
> > > > respect. To do
> > > > otherwise is to strike a deadly blow at the
> heart of
> > > > the State.
> > >
> > > My friend, I must totally disagree with you. This
> is
> > > nothing like the Roman way of thinking. The annals
> of
> > > republican history are filled with very little
> else
> > > than Romans challenging their superiors. The
> > > republican constitution as we know it was formed
> by a
> > > century of organized civil disobedience by the
> urban
> > > plebs. Nor did it end with the early republic. At
> the
> > > Conventus last summer Cato was telling us the
> story of
> > > how his namesake M. Cato Uticensis, only a
> quaestor at
> > > the time, had to be dragged bodily from a contio
> > > because he refused to obey the orders of the
> presiding
> > > magistrate to stop talking. The Romans were not
> > > naturally submissive to authority. Their society
> was,
> > > it's true, hierarchical, but it was dynamically
> so,
> > > not oppressively so. Each Roman had to struggle to
> > > improve his place in the pecking order or even to
> stay
> > > where he was. Once at the top one acquired a
> certain
> > > auctoritas, but it was easily squandered and lost.
> No
> > > one had an unassailable right to respect.
> > >
> > > > Now when a Senator says that something is being
> done
> > > > improperly it is
> > > > the duty of a citizen to desist, even if that
> > > > citizen feels it is
> > > > wrong to do so. Our beloved Marcus Aurelius
> tells us
> > > > how to bear this
> > > > burden, not how to steel ourselves to willfully
> see
> > > > things done our way.
> > >
> > > Please remember that when M. Aurelius wrote his
> little
> > > book the republic had been dead for more than a
> > > century. His words take us into the mind of the
> > > submissive, grovelling aristocracy of the
> principate,
> > > not into that of the free and vigorous republican.
> > >
> > > Remember, too, that the stoic philosophy which
> gave
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38939 From: Aulus Sempronius Regulus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Salve,
His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
So, payment for two separate items, two separate
checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.

Vale,
A.S.R.

--- "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...>
wrote:

> > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori A.
> Sempronio Regulo quiritibus,
> > sociis, peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius
> Regulus
> > <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salvete,
> >> > Why am I not listed? Marcus Cassius took my
> checks for
> > M. Hortensia A. Sempronio Regulo spd;
> > Salve; anyone taking Criminal Law
> knows 'fraud requires
> > intent'. I suggest you check first before making
> an unsavory
> > accusation. And take a more temperate tone you
> could be sued for
> > libel, as you've done it in a public forum and in
> print and that
> > really is the legal definition.
> > vale
> > M. Hortensia Major
> >
> >
> > (1) NR Flags, (2) NR T-shirt, and (3) NR taxes.
> >
> > ATS: Regule, there were plenty of NR flags
> and T-shirts at Market Days.
> > Maybe you should consider attending so that you
> can buy what you like on the
> > spot. Perhaps, however, your long silence has
> kept you from the knowledge
> > that M. Cassius has suffered the sudden loss of
> his father, who was apparently
> > intestate, and is quite distracted by dealing with
> the ramifications of that.
> > In addition, his wife, who usually handles the tax
> payments and other business
> > matters, has/had taken a job in another state
> which means that she
> > doesn¹t/didn¹t get back home as often as both of
> them might like. He does,
> > however, have a long reputation for tardiness in
> this respect. As for the
> > taxes, it took several months before my first tax
> payment was found and
> > credited to me, and quite some time this year for
> the check to clear. Others
> > have had similar difficulties. As M. Hortensia
> observed, there has to be
> > intent for fraud, and that does not seem to be the
> case here.
> >
> > Moreover, as M. Hortensia also pointed out,
> your remarks are quite
> > intemperate. There are better ways of going about
> this than to reappear after
> > months or years of silence and spew venom on a
> good person who happens to be
> > not quite as quick on the trigger as you might
> like. For one thing, the
> > macellum is regulated by the aediles, and anyone
> as familiar with Roman
> > culture as you are should have known that you
> should take your complaint to
> > them first, then perhaps to the praetores. Your
> posts were so heated that I,
> > as praetorian scriba and moderatrix of the ML,
> refused to either approve or
> > reject these posts, and sent a note to the other
> moderators to that effect
> > recommending that this matter be handled by the
> praetores. Unfortunately, one
> > of the moderators saw the pending messages before
> the note I had sent, and
> > approved these rash and vituperative comments.
> Again as M. Hortensia notes,
> > the very viciousness of these remarks may open not
> Cassius, but you, to
> > criminal prosecution.
> >
> >
> >
> >> > He committed fraud on all counts to be pursued
> both
> >> > inside and outside NR.
> >
> > ATS: I don¹t theenk so. He¹s just not the
> most efficient business man on
> > the planet.
> >> >
> >> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> > sophrosyne kalon...to meden agan pasin esti
> khresimon
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


A. Sempronius Regulus

Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace
MMDCCLVIII Anno urbis conditae (AUC)








__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38940 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Licini Crasse.

Yes, that is indeed the most important question for Nova Roma to
answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to work outside of
this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova Roma is now and
what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the case may be).

Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a motivational
problem, for if many of our citizens are not prepared to donate a
mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes, expecting them to
spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even just a
contribution of time, to attend real-world activities maybe a
forlorn hope.

Having said that, it is clear that the number of real-world
activities are increasing. It will be a slow process, but of course
Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had Nova Romans been
in charge we may just have been laying the foundations for the first
wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).

We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes, this isn't very
Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way into developing
what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to reconstruct, lest
we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to come.

Vale
Gn. Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
<glcrassus@b...> wrote:
>
> Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,
>
> I completely agree that America does not yet have a traditional
Empire-
> although it may as well, as much as we seem to have our fingers in
> everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are correct in that it
would be
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38941 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part

"I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present administration?"

Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American citizens were free to express their
dissatisfaction with the present or any American administration.

I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to the polls they lose.
Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend to be conservatives they lose.
The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, the Washington Post, La and NY Times might
as well be an adjunct to the DNC.

If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have more to with the fact
that it illustrates clearly that the "West" has a very big Islamic problem on
its hands and not just on distant battlefields.

We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the current administration.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Licinius Crassus<mailto:glcrassus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political correctness?


Salve omnes,

Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media soft-pedaling of the
issue! I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present admnistration? Then
again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what would the ancient Senate
have done? Refrained from discussing foreign unrest in public, or keep
the citizens informed and take steps to prevent such an occurrence?

Perhaps these are questions that need no answer, but something to think
about nevertheless...

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

raymond fuentes wrote:

> Here in New York they are not covering it at all &
> when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the Stockholm
> Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being used.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > Salve Scipe,
> >
> > Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis
> going on in your nation. The media basically always
> dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event.
> Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what
> you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not
> when) their own true community leaders will see to it
> that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the
> authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a
> rare thing to have real news coming from a region
> undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a
> career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that
> it will all be sorted out soon.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France
> >
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I would like to thank the citizens that did
> express concerns about the situation in
> > Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no
> direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
> > and none has suffered from the riots.
> >
> > Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike
> what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
> > not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I
> spent the day with my children downtown
> > Paris with not a single problem. The riots are
> taking place mostly in remote suburbs.
> >
> > Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a
> traditionnal stand-off between the police
> > and the mob. The riotters are very young
> (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
> > and act very carefully to avoid the police. They
> burn some cars or buildings and go right
> > away. And they act in their suburbs only
> destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
> > typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The
> question now is to find out who is actually
> > manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother"
> who may be a dealer, an extremist or
> > simply somebody who wants to make the news.
> >
> > Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well
> known. France is a very generous
> > country. French citizenship is granted to whoever
> is born in France. Needless to say that
> > the impoverished population coming mostly from
> Africa is trying to make it through the
> > borders and most of the time at the risk of their
> life. France put on 9 millions people
> > during the last 25 years or 16% of the population.
> Simply put and very infortunately, we
> > cannot take care of that much misery. And people
> being left out get angry.
> > There might be as well some racial discrimination
> but to my knowledge and by experience
> > this is not common. I work in the third largest
> bank and more than a third of the workers
> > are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.
> >
> > If you would like more information, let me know.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> >
> > Propraetor Galliae
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com<http://farechase.yahoo.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
Roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38942 From: G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Standard Gauge RRail
G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana omnes SPD.

Now for a compleate change of Topique. :-^

Our local Coffee News handbill, Nov. 7 - 13, 2005,
contains the following brief article in the
"Did You Know" section:

======================================================

STANDARD GAUGE:
We refer to most American and European railway tracks
as standard gauge. The term comes from the length of
the axle on a Roman chariot -- 4 feet 8 inches.

======================================================

Although I suppose one could make a connection with
the Mos Maiorum thread, or the Coin Squab[ble] thread,
etc, etc.

Valete in pace Deorum.

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38943 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
M. Lucr. Agricola C. Iulio Caesari S.P.D.

This is so well put, and I thank you sincerely for it. I spoke rather
glibly because it was not the main point of the discussion.

In fact, you suggest an additional support for my point. Indeed, it is
possible that for some, intemperate speech (for example) could mask
great ability from view. All the more reason to support the idea that
it is the office, not the officeholder, that should command our
respect. Even if one thinks privately "This is a crackpot" one's duty
is clear. Respect the office as that is simply an extension of the
majesty of the State.

I suppose you would agree that this is an eternal truth, since human
traits also seem to be eternal.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve Marce Lucreti.
>
> I think that Roman politicians and statesmen were no different than
> their counterparts throughout the ages. When you say:
>
> <snipped> "...bless us more commonly with persons of talent and
> discretion than with persons of bluster and bombast."
>
> there is an inherent inference that those in power who
> display "bluster and bombast" are in a group that precludes "talent
> and discretion". The former set of qualities can be found in those
> who without question have exhibited the latter and vice-versa. They
> are not mutually exclusive, rather they are inclusive and intrinsic
> qualities of most politicians and statesmen, Roman or otherwise.
>
> The ancient sources were often penned far after the events in
> question that they describe, often from scant source material, often
> with a patron in mind to please (and in the imperial age one had to
> be very careful about content, for mistakes could prove fatal) and
> to satiate an audience imbued with their nation's greatness. Hardly
> any wonder then that some of the accounts should be treated more as
> nationalistic propaganda and alternative historical fiction, than as
> objective accounts.
>
> Therefore I suggest that pen pictures of the wise old statesmen of
> Rome don't always reflect that to survive in the often vicious and
> deadly environment of Roman politics required as much "bluster and
> bombast" as "talent and discretion". Cicero and Cato immediately
> spring to mind.
>
> We should bear in mind that the accounts of history are frequently
> shaped by the victor, in either the political or military sphere,
> and that those that survive and last the longest have an increased
> chance of carving their own niche in history, which at the very
> least is likely to be more favourable than their defeated "foes".
>
> So let's not assume that those that exhibit what you may
> term "bluster and bombast" don't also possess "talent and
> discretion". This is as true today as it was in Ancient Rome.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@y...> wrote:
> >
> > M. Lucretius A. Apollonio sal.
> >
> >
> > It comes to me that your position is a perfectly suited on for a
> > person such as yourself, and please take no offence when I speak
> the
> > word, a Plebeian. It falls by lot to you to run up hills and do
> > everything else needed to challenge authority. This sort of
> challenge
> > can be a very good thing, but it must also be balanced by a
> > stabilizing force.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38944 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
Salve,

It's a shame you have been wronged. Perhaps if Nova Roma had an
online store that could accept credit cards or paypal payments, it'd
make the process of a refund easier. It would also have documentation
of who ordered what(invoices) available in case a problem arises.
It'll definitely make things more efficient and professional. It
wouldn't be that hard to put one up, I could make a mock-up of one if
anyone wishes.


Vale,
Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
<a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
> of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
> April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
> and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
> there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
> I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
> So, payment for two separate items, two separate
> checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
> several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
> and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
> neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.
>
> Vale,
> A.S.R.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38945 From: Timothy P. Gallagher Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Salve Gnaeus Iulius Caesar who said in part

"revolutionary birth and historic aversion to imperialism moving
to a true imperial power may not be easy."

The US tried "Empire" in the late 19th century and found it not to our liking.
Our revolutionary birth as the first colony to assume independence made us
reluctant to become imperial in turn.

The simple truth is that Americans and our institutions are simply
not arrogant enough to want or to keep an empire.

We are more into armies of liberation. (real liberation not Marxist-Leninist BS)

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar<mailto:gn_iulius_caesar@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salve.

The British Empire was larger. Square miles are square
miles...spread out or not. That is the whole point of measuring in
square miles - it condenses areas of different shapes to a common
measurement.

As for the American "Empire", you don't have one. Until such time as
your nation starts annexing large chunks of the world and planting
its flag, introducing American law and government bodies, all you
have is a sphere of influence, and economic muscle, but not an
empire in the accepted sense. It maybe a lot easier for you as a
nation (and probably the rest of the world) if you resolved this
very issue, but I suspect given your nation's revolutionary birth
and historic aversion to imperialism moving to a true imperial power
may not be easy.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
> the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gregory_seeley@s...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> > I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
> SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
> entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
> Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
> dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
> Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
> was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
> on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
> British]....anybody know for sure?
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Aulus Bianchius Pius
> >
> > Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
> post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
> regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
> city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
> primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
> 'field time' between the Society for Creative
> Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
> >
> > The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
> rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
> Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
> instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
> SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
> full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
> etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
> >
> > I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
> it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
> FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
> the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
> various battles they have posted on their website.
> >
> > They do have rather strict membership requirements,
> but the majority of these are based primarily on
> actual battlefield participation and combat
> leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
> governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
> are geared more towards battelfield operations than
> political machinations and such.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
> urge you to visit their website
> (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html)<http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html)> and
> see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
> real-world practice.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> > From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
> <mjk@d...>
> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
> think about
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>






SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
Roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38946 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Salve G. Aurelia Falconis,

Yes, I have a book a home since I was a kid that metions this; I
tell people and they stare at me in disbelief until I show them in
blac and white!

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana"
<silvanatextrix@g...> wrote:
>
> G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana omnes SPD.
>
> Now for a compleate change of Topique. :-^
>
> Our local Coffee News handbill, Nov. 7 - 13, 2005,
> contains the following brief article in the
> "Did You Know" section:
>
> ======================================================
>
> STANDARD GAUGE:
> We refer to most American and European railway tracks
> as standard gauge. The term comes from the length of
> the axle on a Roman chariot -- 4 feet 8 inches.
>
> ======================================================
>
> Although I suppose one could make a connection with
> the Mos Maiorum thread, or the Coin Squab[ble] thread,
> etc, etc.
>
> Valete in pace Deorum.
>
> G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38947 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
M Lucretius Agricola Anniae Minuciae-Tiberiae Audenti Semproniae S.P.D.

I agree that the advantages of such a system would be manifold.

I wonder if we should use publicans? Private tax collecting agents
were used in antiquity, I believe. Safeguards would have to be put in
place, of course, but that is true whatever is done.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens
Sempronia" <annia@c...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> It's a shame you have been wronged. Perhaps if Nova Roma had an
> online store that could accept credit cards or paypal payments, it'd
> make the process of a refund easier. It would also have documentation
> of who ordered what(invoices) available in case a problem arises.
> It'll definitely make things more efficient and professional. It
> wouldn't be that hard to put one up, I could make a mock-up of one if
> anyone wishes.
>
>
> Vale,
> Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
> <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
> > of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
> > April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
> > and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
> > there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
> > I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
> > So, payment for two separate items, two separate
> > checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
> > several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
> > and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
> > neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.
> >
> > Vale,
> > A.S.R.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38948 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Situation in Gallia- attn T Galerius Paulinus
Salve T Galeri Pauline,

I had prepared a lengthy reply to your post noted below, itself in reply
to my own, but decided not to publish it for fear of setting off yet
another firestorm of venom-filled posts- we are surely aware that
politics, especially in America at this time, is a very touchy subject
and there simply seems to be no middle ground to work with! Suffice it
to say that I agree with much of what you have said, but for differing
reasons. I am no fan of the current administration, yet I realize- as
you have- that we have a larger problem that must be dealt with, and
soon, before the violence in our own streets makes 'Paris look like a
campfire', so t speak. (My respects to our Gallic friends, who I know
are dealing with their own problems even now.)

If you wish to discuss our conclusions off-board I will be most happy to
do so; we've had enough ill will voiced on-board to last us for a while,
don't you agree?

Vale bene,

G Licinius Crassus

Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:

> Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part
>
> "I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
> on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
> expressing their dissatisfaction with the present administration?"
>
> Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American citizens were
> free to express their
> dissatisfaction with the present or any American administration.
>
> I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to the
> polls they lose.
> Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend to be
> conservatives they lose.
> The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, the Washington Post, La and NY
> Times might
> as well be an adjunct to the DNC.
>
> If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have more to
> with the fact
> that it illustrates clearly that the "West" has a very big Islamic
> problem on
> its hands and not just on distant battlefields.
>
> We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the current
> administration.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Licinius Crassus<mailto:glcrassus@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the
> Romans embrace political correctness?
>
>
> Salve omnes,
>
> Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media soft-pedaling of the
> issue! I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
> on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
> expressing their dissatisfaction with the present admnistration? Then
> again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what would the ancient
> Senate
> have done? Refrained from discussing foreign unrest in public, or keep
> the citizens informed and take steps to prevent such an occurrence?
>
> Perhaps these are questions that need no answer, but something to think
> about nevertheless...
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
> raymond fuentes wrote:
>
> > Here in New York they are not covering it at all &
> > when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the Stockholm
> > Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being used.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > > Salve Scipe,
> > >
> > > Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis
> > going on in your nation. The media basically always
> > dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event.
> > Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what
> > you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not
> > when) their own true community leaders will see to it
> > that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the
> > authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a
> > rare thing to have real news coming from a region
> > undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a
> > career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that
> > it will all be sorted out soon.
> > >
> > > Vires et honos,
> > > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I would like to thank the citizens that did
> > express concerns about the situation in
> > > Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no
> > direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
> > > and none has suffered from the riots.
> > >
> > > Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike
> > what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
> > > not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I
> > spent the day with my children downtown
> > > Paris with not a single problem. The riots are
> > taking place mostly in remote suburbs.
> > >
> > > Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a
> > traditionnal stand-off between the police
> > > and the mob. The riotters are very young
> > (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
> > > and act very carefully to avoid the police. They
> > burn some cars or buildings and go right
> > > away. And they act in their suburbs only
> > destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
> > > typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The
> > question now is to find out who is actually
> > > manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother"
> > who may be a dealer, an extremist or
> > > simply somebody who wants to make the news.
> > >
> > > Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well
> > known. France is a very generous
> > > country. French citizenship is granted to whoever
> > is born in France. Needless to say that
> > > the impoverished population coming mostly from
> > Africa is trying to make it through the
> > > borders and most of the time at the risk of their
> > life. France put on 9 millions people
> > > during the last 25 years or 16% of the population.
> > Simply put and very infortunately, we
> > > cannot take care of that much misery. And people
> > being left out get angry.
> > > There might be as well some racial discrimination
> > but to my knowledge and by experience
> > > this is not common. I work in the third largest
> > bank and more than a third of the workers
> > > are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.
> > >
> > > If you would like more information, let me know.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > >
> > > Propraetor Galliae
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
> > one click.
> > > http://farechase.yahoo.com<http://farechase.yahoo.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > === Message Truncated ===
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Ancient history
> >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>>>
>
> > Fall of the roman empire
> >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>>>
>
> > The fall of the roman empire
> >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>>>
>
> >
> > Roman empire
> >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>>>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>>"
> on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Ancient
> history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>>
> Fall of the roman
> empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>>
> The fall of the roman
> empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>>
>
> Roman
> empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group
> "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38949 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
I recall a couple of months ago a prospective citizen
proclaim that he would not pay a fee to use this list
just on principal.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> Salve Licini Crasse.
>
> Yes, that is indeed the most important question for
Nova Roma to
> answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to
work outside of
> this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova
Roma is now and
> what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the
case may be).
>
> Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a
motivational
> problem, for if many of our citizens are not
prepared to donate a
> mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes,
expecting them to
> spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even
just a
> contribution of time, to attend real-world
activities maybe a
> forlorn hope.
>
> Having said that, it is clear that the number of
real-world
> activities are increasing. It will be a slow
process, but of course
> Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had
Nova Romans been
> in charge we may just have been laying the
foundations for the first
> wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).
>
> We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes,
this isn't very
> Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way
into developing
> what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to
reconstruct, lest
> we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to
come.
>
> Vale
> Gn. Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius
Crassus
> <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,
> >
> > I completely agree that America does not yet have
a traditional
> Empire-
> > although it may as well, as much as we seem to
have our fingers in
> > everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are
correct in that it
> would be
>
>
>
>


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38950 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
The problem is only going to get worse as long as the
West keeps denying the problem.Our open societies &
attempt to accept is being used against us.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part
>
> "I wonder if American media outlets are not
deliberately sitting
> on the story to not encourage some of our own
disgruntled people from
> expressing their dissatisfaction with the present
administration?"
>
> Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie
American citizens were free to express their
> dissatisfaction with the present or any American
administration.
>
> I also believe that every time the opposition party
has gone to the polls they lose.
> Every single time democrats act like democrats and
don't pretend to be conservatives they lose.
> The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, the Washington
Post, La and NY Times might
> as well be an adjunct to the DNC.
>
> If the "old media" is not coving this story it
might have more to with the fact
> that it illustrates clearly that the "West" has a
very big Islamic problem on
> its hands and not just on distant battlefields.
>
> We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help
the current administration.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Licinius
Crassus<mailto:glcrassus@...>
> To:
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia -
France Would the Romans embrace political correctness?
>
>
> Salve omnes,
>
> Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media
soft-pedaling of the
> issue! I wonder if American media outlets are not
deliberately sitting
> on the story to not encourage some of our own
disgruntled people from
> expressing their dissatisfaction with the present
admnistration? Then
> again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what
would the ancient Senate
> have done? Refrained from discussing foreign
unrest in public, or keep
> the citizens informed and take steps to prevent
such an occurrence?
>
> Perhaps these are questions that need no answer,
but something to think
> about nevertheless...
>
> Valete,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
> raymond fuentes wrote:
>
> > Here in New York they are not covering it at all
&
> > when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the
Stockholm
> > Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being
used.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > > Salve Scipe,
> > >
> > > Thank you sir for the objective update to the
crisis
> > going on in your nation. The media basically
always
> > dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any
event.
> > Bad news sells much better than good news -ne?
If what
> > you say is correct it is only a matter of time
(if not
> > when) their own true community leaders will see
to it
> > that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to
the
> > authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It
is a
> > rare thing to have real news coming from a
region
> > undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda
or a
> > career to build or prop up. My prayers are
asking that
> > it will all be sorted out soon.
> > >
> > > Vires et honos,
> > > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia -
France
> > >
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38951 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Salve Pauline.

The experience your nation has had at "liberating" other less
fortunate nations is similar to the quandary that confronted Rome in
its early years of expansion outside of Italy. It is easy to get
drawn into a conflict, less easy to extract yourself from one. The
lessons of all the great empires should have taught your nation
that.

The British Empire was simply a collection of trading posts that had
morphed ever further into the hinterlands of the lands where they
were situated, either in pursuit of further resources or in order to
eradicate threats to trade (European or "native"). The Roman Empire
in its early years was a series of provinces that fell into the lap
of a reluctant mistress, either wrested from Carthage or occupied to
eradicate a threat to Rome's security. Even Napoleon, one of the few
who could be said to have "planned" to create an empire to some
extent blundered into some of his possessions.

Imperialism, as a defined concept, didn't really emerge in Britain
until long after 1776, a product of Disraeli's fertile political
acumen. Gladstone and Liberals had to coin a reason to stay
embroiled in the mud of imperialism (giving up an Empire that isn't
in decay would have been political suicide), and the great Christian
moralists of the day invented the concept of the "white man's
burden". Given the propensity of the inhabitants of some of our
former colonies to still routinely butcher each other in great
numbers and in the case of one of their leaders (not an isolated
case sadly) to keep the heads of his victims in his fridge for
steady consumption, I don't think they were very successful. Better
to have recognized the nature and consequences of Empire for what
they truly were, rather than the white-wash of missionary work.

Wars of liberation almost always end up in periods of occupation,
very long periods at that. It is at that point that the lines get
blurred. In Rome, the Senate finally conceded defeat on its attempts
to withdraw and simply embarked on annexation. Much more efficient.

Your nation faces a similar quandary each time it "liberates"
someone. Given the simple fact that liberation becomes occupation it
may be a wise course for a nation that recognises that (in advance
of the invasion) to simply face facts and plan accordingly.

The USA is an imperial power without an empire. Imperial patterns of
thought and policy are dictating its course, just as they did in
Rome and Britain. It would be a lot more efficient, honest and
possibly with better planning less costly in life to recognise that
and do the job properly (or not at all). Half-measures end in
disaster and "liberation" is always in the eye of the beholder.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:
>
> Salve Gnaeus Iulius Caesar who said in part
>
> "revolutionary birth and historic aversion to imperialism moving
> to a true imperial power may not be easy."
>
> The US tried "Empire" in the late 19th century and found it not
to our liking.
> Our revolutionary birth as the first colony to assume independence
made us
> reluctant to become imperial in turn.
>
> The simple truth is that Americans and our institutions are
simply
> not arrogant enough to want or to keep an empire.
>
> We are more into armies of liberation. (real liberation not
Marxist-Leninist BS)
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar<mailto:gn_iulius_caesar@y...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about
>
>
> Salve.
>
> The British Empire was larger. Square miles are square
> miles...spread out or not. That is the whole point of measuring
in
> square miles - it condenses areas of different shapes to a
common
> measurement.
>
> As for the American "Empire", you don't have one. Until such
time as
> your nation starts annexing large chunks of the world and
planting
> its flag, introducing American law and government bodies, all
you
> have is a sphere of influence, and economic muscle, but not an
> empire in the accepted sense. It maybe a lot easier for you as a
> nation (and probably the rest of the world) if you resolved this
> very issue, but I suspect given your nation's revolutionary
birth
> and historic aversion to imperialism moving to a true imperial
power
> may not be easy.
>
> Vale
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
> > the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <gregory_seeley@s...> wrote:
> > > Salve,
> > > I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
> > SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
> > entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
> > Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
> > dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
> > Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
> > was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
> > on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
> > British]....anybody know for sure?
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > > Aulus Bianchius Pius
> > >
> > > Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
> > post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
> > regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
> > city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
> > primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
> > 'field time' between the Society for Creative
> > Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
> > >
> > > The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
> > rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
> > Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
> > instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
> > SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
> > full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
> > etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
> > >
> > > I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
> > it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
> > FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
> > the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
> > various battles they have posted on their website.
> > >
> > > They do have rather strict membership requirements,
> > but the majority of these are based primarily on
> > actual battlefield participation and combat
> > leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
> > governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
> > are geared more towards battelfield operations than
> > political machinations and such.
> > >
> > > If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
> > urge you to visit their website
> > (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html)
<http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html)> and
> > see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
> > real-world practice.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > G Licinius Crassus
> > >
> > >
> > ============================================================
> > > From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
> > <mjk@d...>
> > > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
> > think about
> > >
> > >
> > ============================================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire
&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrf
WGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman
empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+rom
an+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.
sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman
empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the
+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=1
03&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
> Roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3
=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC
8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-
Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38952 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia- attn T Galerius Paulinus
As a policeman, Army veteran and citizen of media
dependant NYC. I wholly agree w/ Paulinus. For the
sake of peace the West is overly pacified,media is
biased.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<glcrassus@...> wrote:
> Salve T Galeri Pauline,
>
> I had prepared a lengthy reply to your post noted
below, itself in reply
> to my own, but decided not to publish it for fear
of setting off yet
> another firestorm of venom-filled posts- we are
surely aware that
> politics, especially in America at this time, is a
very touchy subject
> and there simply seems to be no middle ground to
work with! Suffice it
> to say that I agree with much of what you have said,
but for differing
> reasons. I am no fan of the current administration,
yet I realize- as
> you have- that we have a larger problem that must be
dealt with, and
> soon, before the violence in our own streets makes
'Paris look like a
> campfire', so t speak. (My respects to our Gallic
friends, who I know
> are dealing with their own problems even now.)
>
> If you wish to discuss our conclusions off-board I
will be most happy to
> do so; we've had enough ill will voiced on-board to
last us for a while,
> don't you agree?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
>
> Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:
>
> > Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part
> >
> > "I wonder if American media outlets are not
deliberately sitting
> > on the story to not encourage some of our own
disgruntled people from
> > expressing their dissatisfaction with the present
administration?"
> >
> > Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie
American citizens were
> > free to express their
> > dissatisfaction with the present or any American
administration.
> >
> > I also believe that every time the opposition
party has gone to the
> > polls they lose.
> > Every single time democrats act like democrats and
don't pretend to be
> > conservatives they lose.
> > The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, the Washington
Post, La and NY
> > Times might
> > as well be an adjunct to the DNC.
> >
> > If the "old media" is not coving this story it
might have more to
> > with the fact
> > that it illustrates clearly that the "West" has a
very big Islamic
> > problem on
> > its hands and not just on distant battlefields.
> >
> > We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to
help the current
> > administration.
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gaius Licinius
Crassus<mailto:glcrassus@...>
> > To:
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia -
France Would the
> > Romans embrace political correctness?
> >
> >
> > Salve omnes,
> >
> > Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media
soft-pedaling of the
> > issue! I wonder if American media outlets are
not deliberately sitting
> > on the story to not encourage some of our own
disgruntled people from
> > expressing their dissatisfaction with the
present admnistration? Then
> > again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what
would the ancient
> > Senate
> > have done? Refrained from discussing foreign
unrest in public, or keep
> > the citizens informed and take steps to prevent
such an occurrence?
> >
> > Perhaps these are questions that need no answer,
but something to think
> > about nevertheless...
> >
> > Valete,
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38953 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@y...> wrote:
>
> M Lucretius Agricola Anniae Minuciae-Tiberiae Audenti Semproniae S.P.D.
>
> I agree that the advantages of such a system would be manifold.
>
> I wonder if we should use publicans? Private tax collecting agents
> were used in antiquity, I believe. Safeguards would have to be put in
> place, of course, but that is true whatever is done.


I forgot to say that this would also mean that the State would get out
of the retail business. In practice it would mean that any "official"
product would be licensed and sold from the Macellum, where normal
commercial protections and market forces apply.

M. Lucr. Agricola



>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens
> Sempronia" <annia@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > It's a shame you have been wronged. Perhaps if Nova Roma had an
> > online store that could accept credit cards or paypal payments, it'd
> > make the process of a refund easier. It would also have documentation
> > of who ordered what(invoices) available in case a problem arises.
> > It'll definitely make things more efficient and professional. It
> > wouldn't be that hard to put one up, I could make a mock-up of one if
> > anyone wishes.
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> > Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
> > <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
> > > of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
> > > April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
> > > and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
> > > there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
> > > I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
> > > So, payment for two separate items, two separate
> > > checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
> > > several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
> > > and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
> > > neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > A.S.R.
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38954 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salvete omnes,

Hate to sound mercenary here but I dunno; I like paying some sort of
fee on principle. You can get a lot out of NR depending what you are
willing to put into it. I realize as time goes on that we need to
get to the field, have face to face meetings, parties and all but
for the time being we are all learning from one another. We have
experts from the classical field who give us much of their time and
we all know that time is money for many people. Also many citizens
come from various walke of life and I have learned on and off the
lists about theology, philosophy, science, engineering, the
military, movie industry etc. One time one of our citizens helped me
clear up a computer glitch which may have cost me over 100.00 had I
gone to some computer shop.

Right now some citizens are taking Latin courses here. Community
college and language schools usually cost about 200.00 for six
weeks, university courses 25 years ago cost 200.00 for the two
semesters but now I understand one Latin course would be 1000.00 +, -
Now,in the past we took history, philosophy, religio romano and a
few other courses to boot. All in all not a bad return for 10.00 per
year don't you think?

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> I recall a couple of months ago a prospective citizen
> proclaim that he would not pay a fee to use this list
> just on principal.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Licini Crasse.
> >
> > Yes, that is indeed the most important question for
> Nova Roma to
> > answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to
> work outside of
> > this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova
> Roma is now and
> > what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the
> case may be).
> >
> > Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a
> motivational
> > problem, for if many of our citizens are not
> prepared to donate a
> > mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes,
> expecting them to
> > spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even
> just a
> > contribution of time, to attend real-world
> activities maybe a
> > forlorn hope.
> >
> > Having said that, it is clear that the number of
> real-world
> > activities are increasing. It will be a slow
> process, but of course
> > Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had
> Nova Romans been
> > in charge we may just have been laying the
> foundations for the first
> > wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).
> >
> > We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes,
> this isn't very
> > Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way
> into developing
> > what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to
> reconstruct, lest
> > we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to
> come.
> >
> > Vale
> > Gn. Iulius Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius
> Crassus
> > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > I completely agree that America does not yet have
> a traditional
> > Empire-
> > > although it may as well, as much as we seem to
> have our fingers in
> > > everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are
> correct in that it
> > would be
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38955 From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Back from absence
Salve

I've just returned from an absence of 10 days (I was in Malta) with
absolutely no net access. I just realized I actually hadn't warned of
such absence, and I apologize for that. I'm trying to catch up with
the mails recieved in this perod and will try to send a reply when
needed within the next 48 hours.

If you have contacted me and you will have not recieved an answer by
then, feel free, actually feel invited, to bug me again, because the
case is that either I have not recieved yoru mail or it got lost among
the over 400 I found once I got back.

valete,

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38956 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Putting NR on the Street (Was Mos Maiorum)
Salve,

IMHO, it would seem the only way to chage such a fee would be to allow
admission only to those who have paid their taxes, or some such; but the
measure itself would be self-defeating as those people could just as
easily move to another Yahoo!-sponsored Group and have no use for this
one. I'm not sure if having such a 'pay-to-play' system is within Yahoo!
Group rules, though, but I have no evidence as to that.

raymond fuentes wrote:

> I recall a couple of months ago a prospective citizen
> proclaim that he would not pay a fee to use this list
> just on principal.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> > Salve Licini Crasse.
> >
> > Yes, that is indeed the most important question for
> Nova Roma to
> > answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to
> work outside of
> > this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova
> Roma is now and
> > what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the
> case may be).
> >
> > Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a
> motivational
> > problem, for if many of our citizens are not
> prepared to donate a
> > mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes,
> expecting them to
> > spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even
> just a
> > contribution of time, to attend real-world
> activities maybe a
> > forlorn hope.
> >
> > Having said that, it is clear that the number of
> real-world
> > activities are increasing. It will be a slow
> process, but of course
> > Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had
> Nova Romans been
> > in charge we may just have been laying the
> foundations for the first
> > wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).
> >
> > We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes,
> this isn't very
> > Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way
> into developing
> > what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to
> reconstruct, lest
> > we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to
> come.
> >
> > Vale
> > Gn. Iulius Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius
> Crassus
> > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > I completely agree that America does not yet have
> a traditional
> > Empire-
> > > although it may as well, as much as we seem to
> have our fingers in
> > > everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are
> correct in that it
> > would be
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38957 From: Gaius Licinius Crassus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Salve,

My credentials to speak on this are limited, at best- I havent' even
TAKEN my citizenship test yet!- but I believe I would support the idea
of a dedicated online NR store. In practice, as a thought, it could
actually be run through eBay or something like that, could it not? If
so, then PayPal and their other payment methods are already in place
without much prior 'grunt work' needing to be done to get it up and
running, or so it seems from my understanding of the system. I'm not a
businessman- just an observer- so I'm not really up on how all of that
works beind the scenes.

Vale,

G Licinius Crassus

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia wrote:

> Salve,
>
> It's a shame you have been wronged. Perhaps if Nova Roma had an
> online store that could accept credit cards or paypal payments, it'd
> make the process of a refund easier. It would also have documentation
> of who ordered what(invoices) available in case a problem arises.
> It'll definitely make things more efficient and professional. It
> wouldn't be that hard to put one up, I could make a mock-up of one if
> anyone wishes.
>
>
> Vale,
> Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
> <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
> > of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
> > April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
> > and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
> > there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
> > I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
> > So, payment for two separate items, two separate
> > checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
> > several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
> > and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
> > neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.
> >
> > Vale,
> > A.S.R.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38958 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
C. Equitius Cato omnibus S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

We sort of already do have an online store: Gaius Vipsanius
Agrippa's. His business sells many Nova Roma items; perhaps it would
be simpler to just move the inventory of flags, etc., that we have to
his store, rather than re-create the wheel, as it were?

The link to his store is: http://www.harpax.biz

Just a thought.

Valete,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
<glcrassus@b...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> My credentials to speak on this are limited, at best- I havent' even
> TAKEN my citizenship test yet!- but I believe I would support the
idea of a dedicated online NR store. In practice, as a thought, it
could actually be run through eBay or something like that, could it
not? If so, then PayPal and their other payment methods are already in
place
> without much prior 'grunt work' needing to be done to get it up and
> running, or so it seems from my understanding of the system. I'm not a
> businessman- just an observer- so I'm not really up on how all of that
> works beind the scenes.
>
> Vale,
>
> G Licinius Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38959 From: Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
Salve!

Thanks for sharing the link, I had never heard of his store before.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> We sort of already do have an online store: Gaius Vipsanius
> Agrippa's. His business sells many Nova Roma items; perhaps it
would
> be simpler to just move the inventory of flags, etc., that we have
to
> his store, rather than re-create the wheel, as it were?
>
> The link to his store is: http://www.harpax.biz
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
> <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > My credentials to speak on this are limited, at best- I havent'
even
> > TAKEN my citizenship test yet!- but I believe I would support the
> idea of a dedicated online NR store. In practice, as a thought, it
> could actually be run through eBay or something like that, could it
> not? If so, then PayPal and their other payment methods are already
in
> place
> > without much prior 'grunt work' needing to be done to get it up
and
> > running, or so it seems from my understanding of the system. I'm
not a
> > businessman- just an observer- so I'm not really up on how all of
that
> > works beind the scenes.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38960 From: gaiusequitiuscato Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Nov.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Idus Novembris; haec dies comitialis est.


"Whilst Privernum was invested by two consular armies, one of the
consuls was recalled home to conduct the elections. It was in this
year that the carceres were erected in the Circus Maximus. The trouble
of the war with Privernum was not yet over when a most alarming report
of a sudden movement amongst the Gauls reached the senate. Such
reports were not often treated lightly. The new consuls, L. Aemilius
Mamercinus and C Plautius, were immediately ordered to arrange their
respective commands on the very day they assumed office, namely July
1. The Gaulish war fell to Mamercinus, and he allowed none of those
who were called up for service to claim exemption. It is even asserted
that the mob of mechanics and artizans, a class utterly unfit for
warfare, were called out. An immense army was concentrated at Veii to
check the advance of the Gauls. It was thought better not to march any
further in case the enemy took some other route to the City. After a
thorough reconnaissance had been made, it was ascertained after a few
days that all was quiet as far as the Gauls were concerned, and the
whole force was thereupon marched to Privernum. From this point there
is a twofold story. Some state that the city was stormed and Vitrubius
taken alive; other authorities aver that before the final assault the
townsmen came out with a caduceus and surrendered to the consul,
whilst Vitrubius was given up by his own men. The senate, when
consulted as to the fate of Vitrubius and the Privernates, instructed
the consul to demolish the walls of Privernum and station a strong
garrison there, and then to celebrate his triumph. Vitrubius was to be
kept in prison until the consul returned and then to be scourged and
beheaded; his house on the Palatine was to be razed and his goods
devoted to Semo Sancus. The money realised by their sale was melted
down into brazen orbs which were deposited in the chapel of Sancus
opposite the temple of Quirinus. With regard to the senate of
Privernum, it was decreed that every senator who had remained in that
city after its revolt from Rome should be deported beyond the Tiber on
the same conditions as those of Velitrae. After his triumph, when
Vitrubius and his accomplices had been put to death, the consul
thought that as the senate was satisfied with the punishment of the
guilty, he might safely refer to the matter of the Privernates. He
addressed the House in the following terms: "Since the authors of the
revolt, senators, have been visited by the immortal gods and by you
with the punishment they deserved, what is your pleasure with regard
to the innocent population? Although it is my duty to ask for opinions
rather than to give them, I should like to say that in view of the
fact that the Privernates are neighbours of the Samnites, with whom
peaceful relations are now upon a most uncertain footing, I am anxious
that as few grounds of complaint as possible should exist between us
and them."

The question was not an easy one to settle, for the senators, were
governed largely by their temperaments and some advised a harsh,
others a gentler course. The general divergence of opinion was widened
by one of the Privernate envoys who was thinking more of the state of
things in which he had been born than of his present plight. One of
the senators who was advocating sterner measures asked him what
punishment he thought his countrymen deserved. He replied: "The
punishment which those deserve who assert their liberty." The consul
saw that this spirited reply only exasperated those who were already
adverse to the cause of the Privernates, and he tried to get a softer
answer by a more considerate question. "Well," he said, "if we spare
you now, what sort of a peace may we hope to have with you for the
time to come?" "A real and lasting one," was the reply, "if its terms
be good, but if they are bad, one that will soon be broken." On
hearing this, some of the senators exclaimed that he was using open
threats, and that it was by such language that even those states which
had been pacified were incited to renew hostilities. The better part
of the senate, however, put a more favourable construction on his
reply, and declared that it was an utterance worthy of a man and a man
who loved liberty. Was it, they asked, to be supposed that any people
or for that matter, any individual would remain longer than he could
help under conditions which made him discontented? Peace would only be
faithfully kept where those who accepted it did so voluntarily; they
could not hope that it would be faithfully kept where they sought to
reduce men to servitude. The senate was brought to adopt this view
mainly by the consul himself who kept repeating to the consulars-the
men who had to state their opinions first-in a tone loud enough for
many to hear, "Men whose first and last thought is their liberty
deserve to become Romans." Thus they gained their cause in the senate,
and the proposal to confer full citizenship on the Privernates was
submitted to the people." - Livy, History of Rome 8.20



Today is the last celebration of the Mania, and the rite of mundus was
performed for the final time of the year. In this ceremony an effigy
representing the sky was placed upside down in a pit and and covered
with a large stone called the lapis manalis. Three times a year,
including today, the stone was removed to alow the spirits of the
underworld access to the upper regions of the earth. Mania is the
goddess of the dead and along with Mantus rules the underworld. She is
said to be the mother of ghosts, the undead and other spirits of the
night, as well as the Lares and the Manes, the spirits of Roman
ancestors. Mania was borrowed from the Etruscan goddess Manea after
the assimilation of the Etruscan people by the Romans, and from the
Greeks as the goddess of madness and death --- with her sister
Insania, utter madness, she was a cruel mistress.



"Illustrious Rhea ... Mother of Gods and Men, who from Gaia (Earth)
and spacious Ouranos (Heaven) derives her glorious birth." –Orphic
Hymn 14 to Rhea

"Ops is said to be the wife of Saturn. By her they designated the
earth, because the earth distributes all goods to the human gender." -
Festus 203:19



Today is also sacred to Ops, or the Greek Rhea. Ops is the goddess of
harvests. She was the wife of Saturn, by whom she bore Iuppiter and
Iuno. At her festivals, the Opiconsivia and the Opalia, held in August
and December, respectively, she was worshiped as a goddess of sowing
and reaping and was associated with Consus, god of crops. She was
later identified with the Greek Rhea. The Latin word ops means
"riches, goods, abundance, gifts, munificence, plenty". This word is
also related to opus, meaning "work" and, particularly "working the
earth, ploughing, sowing". Ops was the goddess of plenty among the
Latins (Romans). She was the spouse of Saturn, the bountiful monarch
of the Golden Age. Just as Saturn was identified to Kronos, his Greek
counterpart, Ops was identified to Rhea, the wife of Kronos (or
Kronus, in the Latin spelling). The cult of Ops was instituted by King
Titus Tatius, the Sabine monarch. And Ops soon became the patroness of
riches, abundance, and prosperity both personal and national. She is
shown seated, holding sheaves of grain.

In Greek mythology, Rhea was the mother of the gods, daughter of
Uranus and Gaia. She was married to her brother Cronus and was the
mother of Demeter, Hades, Hera, Hestia, Poseidon and Zeus. Cronus was
jealous of the future power of his children and, to secure his
dominion, he ate his own children. Rhea managed to rescue one son,
Zeus. She hid him in the Dictean Cave in Crete and gave Cronus a stone
wrapped in the clothes of the infant, which he swallowed. Thus Rhea
succeeded in making him believe that he had killed all of his
children. When Zeus reached maturity he overpowered and dethroned his
father and made Cronus disgorge his siblings. Rhea is identified with
mother goddess Cybele from Asia Minor and is also known as Rhea Cybele
and Magna Mater ("great mother"). She was worshipped with orgiastic
rites. Rhea is depicted between two lions or on a chariot pulled by lions.



Valete bene!

Cato




SOURCES

Livy (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/Liv2His.html),
Mania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) Ops/Rhea
(http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanisRhea.html) and
(http://www.answers.com/topic/ops-1)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38961 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Online Store Ideas (Was the Taxpayer Thread)
M. Lucretius Agricola C. Equitio Caroni Omnibusque sal

I don't think we should have a single "official" flag. We should have
many licensed flags. Let the normal licensing mechanism be used.
Merchants who provide good value and fast, relaible service will
prosper and all citizens will benefit. It should be a free market. No
state that I know of in the world keeps a state monopoly on national
flag production.

For products that are State monopolies, like coins, a different
mechanism can be used. Vendors could bid for the right to distribute
State monopoly products. They would enjoy prestige, but poor service
would result in the loss of the contract. Again, the citizens benefit.

Same thing for taxes. Being a contracted tax collection site would
bring prestige (and traffic) and poor service would see the contract
end. Citizens win.

I can see that in the early days it was good to have anything at all,
and perhaps only the Res Publica could provide these products. We are
clearly past that stage now. It is time to let the economy begin to
function freely.

Our cry: "Free Trade in Nova Roma!"


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@y...>
wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> We sort of already do have an online store: Gaius Vipsanius
> Agrippa's. His business sells many Nova Roma items; perhaps it would
> be simpler to just move the inventory of flags, etc., that we have to
> his store, rather than re-create the wheel, as it were?
>
> The link to his store is: http://www.harpax.biz
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius Crassus
> <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > My credentials to speak on this are limited, at best- I havent' even
> > TAKEN my citizenship test yet!- but I believe I would support the
> idea of a dedicated online NR store. In practice, as a thought, it
> could actually be run through eBay or something like that, could it
> not? If so, then PayPal and their other payment methods are already in
> place
> > without much prior 'grunt work' needing to be done to get it up and
> > running, or so it seems from my understanding of the system. I'm
not a
> > businessman- just an observer- so I'm not really up on how all of
that
> > works beind the scenes.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38962 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Crassus,

I know what you're talking about. I have had my injuries as well. Broken nose (several times), wrist, ribs, fingers, toes, collar bone and fractured neck. I am a veteran with hand to hand fighting experience as well as a dozen full contact kick boxing bouts in my martial arts career. Not to mention being the Uke (translation - Oh bruised one) for several Oriental Masters on their USA tours. One of them, a Philippino rattan stick master (Escrima/Arnis) took delight in slamming my arms while showcasing disarming techniques.

I am familiar with the SCA. They have to give up too much authenticity in Roman fighting techniques however, not just accouterments, amice. Medieval fighting is very different, they can get away with it since most of the techniques are of slashing type. Authentic Roman fighting doesn't lend itself to the rattan very well. Grappling was also quite prevalent in the ancient Roman battlefield since the heavy shield (scutum) was not exactly useful once the ranks broke. The miles where expert in the gladius/pugio combination. They had to be, and they had to come in very close to be inside the arc of the battle axe and long swords of most of their enemies. Which of course also accounted for their grappling (Pankration) skills.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salve Phillipe et salvete omnes,

Yes, it is true that ROME- as well as most other fighting groups- is nowehere near as authentic as true re-enactment groups, nor do they pretend to be. Authenticity comes at a price when it comes to 'playability' on the fighting field. That price, unfortunately, is usually paid in blood and broken bones- I know, I've been there and done that all in the name of 'authenticity'. In my case, I tried to go strictly by the fighting standards of the SCA- their 'conventional rules' state (basically) that all armor is considered to be a close helm (read: Norman helm with a nasal guard) and a maille hauberk. I made my own hauberk and obtained a legal helm and other required pieces of armor and set about it. It didn't take very long to figure out that while maille is excellent for stopping slashes and minor scrapes, it does absolutely nothing to stop mass weapons such as maces or, for that matter, the rattan swords used in the SCA. Rattan sword= baseball bat. Granted this happened in my fairly early days, but I still managed to gather a cracked collar bone and various cracked ribs over the year or so that I fought like that. That's why in the SCA you see people with 'Viking' or 'Saracen' personae running around in full plate armor- you need it for protection out there! Once the swords- and maces, and halberd, and spears- start flying, authenticity goes out the window.

We all have something to learn from each other, be you in an online group a la Nova Roma, or a truly authenticity-minded reenactment group (the Legio XX comes to mind- do a web search for them), or a fighting group such as ROME. We in Nova Roma talk about rebuilding the greatness of ancient Rome and resurrecting its institutions; reenactment groups strive to reproduce the 'way it was' down to the last sandal strap; and groups like ROME train and fight like the Legions of old while being relatively safe. Every group has something to contribute to the greater good.

Vale, et valete,

G Licinius Crassus


============================================================
From: "Sensei Phil Perez" <senseiphil@...>
Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 08:19:12 CST
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about

============================================================




SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38963 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Caesar,

You are quite correct. Americans don't want an Empire. We want trading partners. Free trade and commerce is much better than subjugation. It would probably be easier to subjugate at first in order to bring some backward or recalcitrant nation that has gotten into a fight with us out of the dark and into the light of freedom but we do so only when it is necessary as in Iraq, Japan and Germany. But we did not like being subjugated and therefore don't want to be subjugators. We liberate and leave these countries better than we find them when they are vanquished - and we do leave them as soon as possible to govern themselves completely!

Most of the problems of the modern world are the result of such behavior by earlier European powers such as Britain, France, The Netherlands, Spain, Russia, Portugal, etc. Their former colonies are the ones experiencing all this strife precisely because of colonial their former long term subjugation. The USA is just the scapegoat because we "represent" the culture of the "Western Powers" in the modern world much more than the original powers which caused all of these problems to start with. Can you blame these countries for thinking that we are up to the same thing? It's only after the fact that they come to realize that we are not of the same ilk. I'm sure that there are plenty of little countries (former European colonies) hoping for the USA to come and rescue them from their bloody tyrants next. I sincerely hope we don't, no one likes it when we do except for the ones we rescue (of course). That is most of them - France is the exception - we came to their rescue twice yet they continually act as if the USA was the country that subjugated them, not Germany.

Now please let's leave modern History alone. This post is just a friendly response to Caesar's post. Please let's not get into a political insult match here. There has been more than enough. I mentioned Iraq only because it is a fact that the USA is there right now. I don't want to rehatch the old quarrels that they never attacked us, etc. The USA did what it did because it felt very insecure while that madman was there and because of what he could soon do if he got the chance. That chance would have come soon, enough people were being paid handsomely in order to let that happen. All of the people who damned the USA for the invasion seem to have had a greedy monetary reason for not supporting it as the investigations of the UN are now finally bringing to light. No matter how you may feel about it, the world is much better off without that despot in power and the Iraqi people most of all.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salve.

The British Empire was larger. Square miles are square
miles...spread out or not. That is the whole point of measuring in
square miles - it condenses areas of different shapes to a common
measurement.

As for the American "Empire", you don't have one. Until such time as
your nation starts annexing large chunks of the world and planting
its flag, introducing American law and government bodies, all you
have is a sphere of influence, and economic muscle, but not an
empire in the accepted sense. It maybe a lot easier for you as a
nation (and probably the rest of the world) if you resolved this
very issue, but I suspect given your nation's revolutionary birth
and historic aversion to imperialism moving to a true imperial power
may not be easy.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> The American empire is the largest. Actually I believe
> the Roman was largest but the English more spread out.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gregory_seeley@s...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> > I once had the pleasure of seeing the Roman's at
> SCA. It was a "Celtic" festival and they invited the
> entire history of Britain there. I was there in full
> Victorian [I do Victorian re-enactment and teach
> dance] and it was amusing to have the English and
> Romans [the two great imperialists] "talk shop". It
> was alot of fun, but nrither of us were able to agree
> on whose empire was bigger? [Roman, or
> British]....anybody know for sure?
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Aulus Bianchius Pius
> >
> > Gaius Licinius Crassus <glcrassus@b...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I am familiar with the group you mentioned in your
> post, Paulinus, as I have been in contact with them
> regarding the formation of a fighting Legion in my
> city. The group is known simply as "Rome" and is
> primarily an actual fighting group, dividing their
> 'field time' between the Society for Creative
> Anachronism and Dagorhir Battle Games.
> >
> > The SCA has strict armor requirements and uses solid
> rattan weapons for fighting (www.sca.org), while
> Dagorhir has less stringent armor requirements and
> instead uses padded weapons (www.dagorhir.com). The
> SCA prohibits grappling, while Dagorhir allows
> full-contact fighting in the form of shield charges,
> etc. but no beat-downs or punching-outs.
> >
> > I can speak only for SCA fighting, as I have been at
> it off and on for the past twenty or so years...it's
> FUN!! And yes, the ROME group is quite impressive on
> the field, as evidenced by their photographs from
> various battles they have posted on their website.
> >
> > They do have rather strict membership requirements,
> but the majority of these are based primarily on
> actual battlefield participation and combat
> leadership. They are not as strict as NR is about
> governmental forms and historical naming and such, but
> are geared more towards battelfield operations than
> political machinations and such.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in such an organization, I
> urge you to visit their website
> (http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/index.html) and
> see for yourself how ROME puts...well, Rome into
> real-world practice.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> > From: "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
> <mjk@d...>
> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon PM 04:11:17 CST
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mos Maiorum - something to
> think about
> >
> >
> ============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>






SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38964 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Salvete omnes,

I totally agree with Paulinus on this.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Timothy P. Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political correctness?


Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part

"I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present administration?"

Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American citizens were free to express their
dissatisfaction with the present or any American administration.

I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to the polls they lose.
Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend to be conservatives they lose.
The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, the Washington Post, La and NY Times might
as well be an adjunct to the DNC.

If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have more to with the fact
that it illustrates clearly that the "West" has a very big Islamic problem on
its hands and not just on distant battlefields.

We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the current administration.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Licinius Crassus<mailto:glcrassus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political correctness?


Salve omnes,

Ahhh the joys of Political Correctness and media soft-pedaling of the
issue! I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present admnistration? Then
again, from our Nova Roman point of view...what would the ancient Senate
have done? Refrained from discussing foreign unrest in public, or keep
the citizens informed and take steps to prevent such an occurrence?

Perhaps these are questions that need no answer, but something to think
about nevertheless...

Valete,

G Licinius Crassus

raymond fuentes wrote:

> Here in New York they are not covering it at all &
> when they do it is sparse & laden w/ the Stockholm
> Syndrome.Displaced youth phrasenot race being used.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> > Salve Scipe,
> >
> > Thank you sir for the objective update to the crisis
> going on in your nation. The media basically always
> dwells on the most inflammatory aspects of any event.
> Bad news sells much better than good news -ne? If what
> you say is correct it is only a matter of time (if not
> when) their own true community leaders will see to it
> that the malcontent ring leaders are given up to the
> authorities. Please do keep us all informed. It is a
> rare thing to have real news coming from a region
> undergoing a crisis that doesn't have an agenda or a
> career to build or prop up. My prayers are asking that
> it will all be sorted out soon.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France
> >
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I would like to thank the citizens that did
> express concerns about the situation in
> > Gallia. So far, and to my knowledge, there is no
> direct threat to any citizen in Gallia
> > and none has suffered from the riots.
> >
> > Concerning the extent of the fights, and unlike
> what the medias tend to tell, Paris is
> > not burning. At least, not yet. Last Sunday, I
> spent the day with my children downtown
> > Paris with not a single problem. The riots are
> taking place mostly in remote suburbs.
> >
> > Concerning the type of fight, we do not have a
> traditionnal stand-off between the police
> > and the mob. The riotters are very young
> (sometimes less than 14... and mostly below 18)
> > and act very carefully to avoid the police. They
> burn some cars or buildings and go right
> > away. And they act in their suburbs only
> destroying what is actually theirs. This is the
> > typical behaviour of a manipulated mob. The
> question now is to find out who is actually
> > manipulating: it is obviously the "older brother"
> who may be a dealer, an extremist or
> > simply somebody who wants to make the news.
> >
> > Concerning the causes of the riots, they are well
> known. France is a very generous
> > country. French citizenship is granted to whoever
> is born in France. Needless to say that
> > the impoverished population coming mostly from
> Africa is trying to make it through the
> > borders and most of the time at the risk of their
> life. France put on 9 millions people
> > during the last 25 years or 16% of the population.
> Simply put and very infortunately, we
> > cannot take care of that much misery. And people
> being left out get angry.
> > There might be as well some racial discrimination
> but to my knowledge and by experience
> > this is not common. I work in the third largest
> bank and more than a third of the workers
> > are not caucasians and business is going smoothly.
> >
> > If you would like more information, let me know.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> >
> > Propraetor Galliae
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in
> one click.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com<http://farechase.yahoo.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Ancient history
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ>>
> Fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA>>
> The fall of the roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>>
>
> Roman empire
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "Nova-Roma
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
Roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38965 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
Salve Paulinus,

I agree completely. Although I received my BA back when it was inexpensive to go to college ($3,400 Total indebtedness after all was said and done). That wouldn't pay for one semester at a state college today, and the quality of instruction has sadly gone steadily downhill since then.

I have learned more about Roman history and the ancient world in general from NR members on these lists and at re-enactment events than from all the ancient and Roman history classes I took while in college. The Latin class we are both in right now is much more challenging than any class I ever took while in college! Ironically, because it is being offered for free here it has not been taken seriously by many. I believe we are down to six active students just a month and a half into it. What a shame. The caliber of instruction being offered here is world class!

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:54 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about


Salvete omnes,

Hate to sound mercenary here but I dunno; I like paying some sort of
fee on principle. You can get a lot out of NR depending what you are
willing to put into it. I realize as time goes on that we need to
get to the field, have face to face meetings, parties and all but
for the time being we are all learning from one another. We have
experts from the classical field who give us much of their time and
we all know that time is money for many people. Also many citizens
come from various walke of life and I have learned on and off the
lists about theology, philosophy, science, engineering, the
military, movie industry etc. One time one of our citizens helped me
clear up a computer glitch which may have cost me over 100.00 had I
gone to some computer shop.

Right now some citizens are taking Latin courses here. Community
college and language schools usually cost about 200.00 for six
weeks, university courses 25 years ago cost 200.00 for the two
semesters but now I understand one Latin course would be 1000.00 +, -
Now,in the past we took history, philosophy, religio romano and a
few other courses to boot. All in all not a bad return for 10.00 per
year don't you think?

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> I recall a couple of months ago a prospective citizen
> proclaim that he would not pay a fee to use this list
> just on principal.
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
> > Salve Licini Crasse.
> >
> > Yes, that is indeed the most important question for
> Nova Roma to
> > answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to
> work outside of
> > this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova
> Roma is now and
> > what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the
> case may be).
> >
> > Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a
> motivational
> > problem, for if many of our citizens are not
> prepared to donate a
> > mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes,
> expecting them to
> > spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even
> just a
> > contribution of time, to attend real-world
> activities maybe a
> > forlorn hope.
> >
> > Having said that, it is clear that the number of
> real-world
> > activities are increasing. It will be a slow
> process, but of course
> > Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had
> Nova Romans been
> > in charge we may just have been laying the
> foundations for the first
> > wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).
> >
> > We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes,
> this isn't very
> > Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way
> into developing
> > what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to
> reconstruct, lest
> > we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to
> come.
> >
> > Vale
> > Gn. Iulius Caesar
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Licinius
> Crassus
> > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iuli Caesar et salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > I completely agree that America does not yet have
> a traditional
> > Empire-
> > > although it may as well, as much as we seem to
> have our fingers in
> > > everyone's pies these days. Perhaps you are
> correct in that it
> > would be
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>






SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38966 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: How Empires End
Salvete omnes,

Here is a short yet illumniating article on what may be happening in France right now:

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10116

It start this way:

The Romans conquered the barbarians-and the barbarians conquered Rome. So it goes with empires.

And comes now the penultimate chapter in the history of the empires of the West.


Although you may not agree with the author, it is thought provoking.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38967 From: raymond fuentes Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: The truth throughout history is that the expansion of Islam has not
While Islam is full of grievance,the West is full of
guilt.We preach the equality of all faiths.Islam
rejects equality.Islam is assertive,the West apologetic.

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38968 From: CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Mari Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Animals ??
Salve Luci Servili, et salvete quirites,

Lucius Servilius <luciusserviliusprimus@...> writes:

> ... did the ancient Romans connect animals with Myths, Legends,
> Superstions, or Omens

Yes, they did. Birds were often considered to indicate messages from the Dii
Immortales. Most augury consisted of watching the flight of birds. Dogs were
generally considered to be unclean and nefas.

Vale, et valete,

-- Marinus

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38969 From: Benjamin A. Okopnik Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Salve, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus amice; salvete, omnes.

On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 09:11:36AM -0000, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:
> Salve G. Aurelia Falconis,
>
> Yes, I have a book a home since I was a kid that metions this; I
> tell people and they stare at me in disbelief until I show them in
> blac and white!
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana"
> <silvanatextrix@g...> wrote:
> >
> > G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana omnes SPD.
> >
> > Now for a compleate change of Topique. :-^
> >
> > Our local Coffee News handbill, Nov. 7 - 13, 2005,
> > contains the following brief article in the
> > "Did You Know" section:
> >
> > ======================================================
> >
> > STANDARD GAUGE:
> > We refer to most American and European railway tracks
> > as standard gauge. The term comes from the length of
> > the axle on a Roman chariot -- 4 feet 8 inches.
> >
> > ======================================================
> >
> > Although I suppose one could make a connection with
> > the Mos Maiorum thread, or the Coin Squab[ble] thread,
> > etc, etc.

I hate to disappoint folks - it's a fun and plausible-sounding story -
but:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm

``
Claim: The United States standard railroad gauge derives from the
original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
Status: False.
''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legend


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Imperium et libertas.
Empire and liberty.
-- Benjamin Disraeli; from Cicero and Tacitus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38970 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Valetudo quod fortuna Cn Iulius;

On 11/8/05, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> Salve Pauline.
>
> The experience your nation has had at "liberating" other less
> fortunate nations is similar to the quandary that confronted Rome in
> its early years of expansion outside of Italy. [excision]
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>

One of the more thoughtful essays I've ever scene on a working meaning
of Imperialism.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
--
"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances
with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean,
as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be
understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing
engagements."
- George Washington's Farewell Address,
September 17, 1796
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38971 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The truth throughout history is that the expansion of Islam has
I civilization that lacks the will to defend itself, will not long survive.
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius

On 11/8/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
>
> While Islam is full of grievance,the West is full of
> guilt.We preach the equality of all faiths.Islam
> rejects equality.Islam is assertive,the West apologetic.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38972 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Standard Gauge RRail
Five Roman feet, one Passus militaris in fact. The connection is that after
the Romans, wagons started to make ruts in the road so carpenters kept on making
wagons to fit the ruts. So when England laid rails into mines the tracks fitted
the trucks (pulled by women and ponies then), And when they came to lay powered
rail of course they used the same gauge and still do, with all the instability
of sticking much wider cars on narrrow wheelbases. Isambard Kingdom Brunel
didn't though. He went for a seven foot gauge with comfortable wide cars. It's
still noticible how much wider the spaced is between platforms on the Great
Western. Spain and Russia use wider gauges. Maybe they didn't borrow British
engineers.
Caesariensis





Salve G. Aurelia Falconis,

Yes, I have a book a home since I was a kid that metions this; I
tell people and they stare at me in disbelief until I show them in
blac and white!

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana"
wrote:
>
> G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana omnes SPD.
>
> Now for a compleate change of Topique. :-^
>
> Our local Coffee News handbill, Nov. 7 - 13, 2005,
> contains the following brief article in the
> "Did You Know" section:
>
> ======================================================
>
> STANDARD GAUGE:
> We refer to most American and European railway tracks
> as standard gauge. The term comes from the length of
> the axle on a Roman chariot -- 4 feet 8 inches.
>
> ======================================================
>
> Although I suppose one could make a connection with
> the Mos Maiorum thread, or the Coin Squab[ble] thread,
> etc, etc.
>
> Valete in pace Deorum.
>
> G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana
>










SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history
Fall of the roman empire
The fall of the romanempire
Roman empire




YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on theweb.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.










There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say there
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38973 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
Salve Marce Lucreti.

I am familiar with, and have worked in that environment and trained
others in, the credo that if you cannot respect the person you
should respect the rank he holds. There is an equal credo that
better a bad order well carried out than a bad order badly carried
out. These are concepts more applicable to a disciplined service
unit than to relationships between a citizen and a magistrate.

I think that whatever one does has to be measured and deliberate, so
some civil disobedience is a sign of a healthy and thinking
republic. Too much is a sign of anarchy. A citizen calling a Senator
demented or a Senator calling ideas crackpot won't diminish the
dignity of either individual or the state. It is just rambunctious
politics.

Vale
Gnaeus Iulius Caesar


> M. Lucr. Agricola C. Iulio Caesari S.P.D.
<snipped>
> Respect the office as that is simply an extension of the
> majesty of the State.
>
> I suppose you would agree that this is an eternal truth, since
> human traits also seem to be eternal.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38974 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Yet disgruntled people do riot in America and appear to run low-key permanent
no-go areas on a fairly regular basis. The news so far is fairly consistent
that these are poor youg men who believe themselves overlooked and not treated
equally as other French citizens, whther that is actually true or not. Because
of where they live and who they are, they are mostly descendents of ex-colonial
immigrants but by no means all and so far there appears to be no attempt to
take it over as a political or religious co-ordinated movement. I have a very
long article on it showing how this kind of thing is the inevitable result of
putting money before people. Of course it will be claimed by parties with a use
for it and has been on the international scale, first by Moscow and latterly by
various Muslim offshoots with their own internal agendas. Iran for instance
needs to show its sect compatible with modernity and a degree of democracy
while others are not or must sell out to materialism, one thing all Iranians
have rejected however little they like some of their puritanism.
Caesariensis

Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part

"I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present administration?"

Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American citizenswere free to
express their
dissatisfaction with the present or anyAmerican administration.

I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to the polls
theylose.
Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend tobe
conservatives they lose.
The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC,the Washington Post, La and NY Times might
as well be an adjunct to theDNC.

If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have moreto with the fact
that it illustrates clearly that the "West"has a very big Islamic problem on
its hands and not just on distantbattlefields.

We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the currentadministration.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say there
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38975 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Fwd: [dontchangeyourself] What are the French riots about?
----- Message Forwarded on Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:43:52 GMT -----
From: Lunetta
To: Dontchangeyourself
Subject: [dontchangeyourself] What are the French riots about?
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:34:10 +1100




Lynette
*******
www.okulture.com
*******

referenced articles (included at bottom):
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/international/europe/07france.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501515.html

---

One of the themes I've been developing, with respect to
neoliberalism, is the notion of "being left by the
wayside".

This notion arises because neoliberalism combines two
aspects, which together are very alarming.

The first aspect has to do with the dog-eat-dog
marketplace, what some call a 'race to the bottom'.
Whether you're an individual or a nation -- if you want to
succeed -- you find yourself in a competitive game of "The
Weakest Link". Many fail in this game, as we see with the
unemployed and the homeless and the West (in the case of
individuals), and with collapsed economies in the third world
(in the case of whole nations).

The second aspect of neoliberalism has to do with
'entitlements', or 'safety nets': they are being
systematically eliminated, in a process that goes under
the ironic name of 'reform'. For individuals, the
relentless process of 'reform' continues to reduce
government services, social welfare benefits, working
condition and employment guarantees, pensions, etc. For
nations, 'reform' undermines budgets with reckless tax
cuts, forcing the reductions in benefits, and takes away
the ability of nations to function effectively, by ever
greater demands for privatization and austerity.

For years in the EU there have been major waves of
protests, as one group after another has seen its safety
nets removed - farmers, truckers, civil servants, medical
workers, pensioners, students etc. etc. In the third world
the removal of safety nets has been most extreme, leading
directly to mass deaths by starvation and disease.
Collapsed economies and destroyed infrastructures take
away the ability of governments to maintain order: with
the safety net of social order removed, the result is
genocidal civil wars as armed factions compete to survive.

I've seen no evidence that our esteemed leaders have any
intention of halting this 'reform' process. The evidence
clearly indicates that safety nets generally have been
targeted for extinction. In the third world, particularly
Africa, we can see that process in its final stages. With
Washington's various free-trade area initiatives -- NAFTA,
CAFTA, FTAA etc. -- we see blatant intent to rapidly
demote North American economies to third-world status. To
the extent this succeeds, that then puts pressure on the
EU -- if it wants to remain competitive in global markets
-- to further 'reform', to match North America.

With safety nets being systematically removed, and with
economic success becoming ever more difficult and
competitive, what is to happen to those who 'fall by the
wayside', those who 'have no place' in the system?

In Africa, eg. Rwanda, Zaire, The Sudan, etc., we've seen
one answer to this question: mass die-offs, and wasting
away in refugee camps. In the West, these riots in France
-- and the response to those riots by officials and the
media -- provides us with a microcosm indicator of how
those 'left by the wayside' are going to be dealt with as
the neoliberal assault continues.

NY Times: Unemployment in the neighborhoods is double and
sometimes triple the 10 percent national average, while
incomes are about 40 percent lower.
...Though a majority of the youths committing the actsare
Muslim, and of African or North African origin, themayhem
has yet to take on any ideological or religiousovertones.

Here we have a classic case of a group being left by the
neoliberal wayside. Unemployment generally is increasing
in Europe, and as the more advantaged people are forced to
compete for crumbs, those in disadvantaged communities are
increasingly left with no hope of employment or hope for
improvement in their lives. Prostitution, drugs, and crime
remain, as other 'career paths' disappear. The community
becomes 'hostile territory' in the eyes of police:

NY Times: Young people in the poor neighborhoods
incubating the violence have consistently complained that
police harassment is mainly to blame. "If you'retreated
like a dog, you react like a dog"...
...The youths have singled out the Frenchinterior minister,
Nicolas Sarkozy, complaining about hiszero-tolerance
anticrime drive and dismissive talk. (Hefamously called
troublemakers in the poor neighborhoodsdregs, using a
French slur that offended manypeople.)

'Dregs' sums up the situation quite nicely: those left by
the wayside are 'the dregs' - the part that settles to the
bottom - having no value in the neoliberal economy. And
what do you do with dregs, as in your tea or coffee
pot?... you dump them out, get rid of them, flush them
away; they have no place in a clean kitchen. The word
'dregs' candidly captures the neoliberal attitude
toward those who don't fit in.

One way that these people are 'flushed away' has to do
with how other people respond to their plight
psychologically. In many cases, people choose to
rationalize away any sympathy they might feel, typically
'by blaming the victims' for their plight, thus making
them unworthy of sympathy:

NY Times: The attack angered people in the neighborhood,
which includes the old Jewish quarter and is still a
center of Jewish life in the city. "We escaped from
Romania with nothing and came here and worked our fingers
to the bone and never asked for anything, never
complained," said Liliane Zump, a woman in her 70's,
shaking with fury on the street outside the scarred
building.

I must respect this sentiment, having always been blessed
myself by relatively privileged opportunities. And I know
that conditions in earlier times, e.g. Victorian Britain
and Ireland, were far worse for the underprivileged than
in today's Western ghettos. Nonetheless there's something
different about the plight of today's 'dregs', and that
has to do with the plight of the middle classes.

When Ms. Zump escaped from Romania, the middle classes
were on the rise in France, and the path of hard work
could enable one to 'improve ones station' in life, to
move up to the middle class. Not all succeeded, but the
opportunity was there, particularly for the skilled and
educated. But when the 'dregs' today look up and see their
middle class brothers and sisters spiraling downward, then
what hope can they have? If people are tumbling down the
ladder of success, there's no room for anyone to climb up.
For young people the sense of hopelessness is even
greater, seeing no hopeful future for themselves:

Wash. Post: Rezzoug said about 18 youths between the ages
of 15 and 25 are responsible for most of the fires and
attacks on police in Le Blanc-Mesnil, though he said some
young men from neighboring towns have joined in themayhem.
..."We don't have the American dreamhere," said
Rezzoug, as he surveyed the clusters ofyoung men. "We
don't even have the French dreamhere."

Chronic hopelessness, combined with economic deprivation,
is a heavy burden to bear psychologically. Resentment and
anger are natural responses to being first abandoned by
the system, then blamed for your plight, and finally
harassed by the authorities:

NY Times: "We have 10 policemen that were hit by gunfire
in Grigny, and two of them are in the hospital"...
...the violence, which has become one of the mostserious
challenges to governmental authority here innearly 40
years, showed no sign of abating...

Consider this situation from the perspective of
'attention'. If your situation seems hopeless, and no one
is paying any attention to you, except to annoy you, then
you're going to feel resentment, and you're going to feel
ignored -- as individuals, and as a community. It would be
entirely natural to feel a need to 'gain the attention' of
the larger society:

Wash. Post: Rage of French Youth Is a Fight for Recognition.
Spreading Rampage in Country's Slums Is Rooted in
Alienation and Abiding Government Neglect
..."It's not a political revolution or aMuslim
revolution," said Rezzoug. "There's alot of rage. Through
this burning, they're saying, 'Iexist, I'm here.' "

Despite this latent drive to gain attention, 'dregs' communities
typically do not spontaneously start riots in order to get
attention. Rather we see a multi-stage process.

What usually happens first is some singular outrage, such
as the filming of the Rodney King beating in LA, which
provides a focus for pent-up anger, igniting it into overt
collective aggression against symbols of the system. Once
rioting begins, it creates, among other things, a sense of
community, of empowerment, of 'being heard'.

This situation arises of itself, not necessarily
anticipated by those who first threw stones in anger. Once
it does arise -- this community empowerment aspect -- then
the riots have an additional potential source of momentum,
other than just pent up anger and resentment. The 'dregs'
community learns, in the experience of rioting, that
collective action can 'make waves'. Depending on how deep
is the sense of hopelessness, and how urgent the need for
improved conditions, there is a fine line between rioting
and insurrection, between chaos and a genuine, homegrown,
non-CIA funded, 'Colored Revolution':

Wash. Post: "We want to change the government," he said,a
black baseball cap pulled low over large,chocolate-brown
eyes and an ebony face. "There's noway of getting their
attention. The only way tocommunicate is by burning."

NY Times: Despite help from thousands of reinforcements,
the polhttp://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/international/europe/07france.html


November 7, 2005

10 Officers Shot as Riots Worsen in French Cities
By CRAIG S. SMITH

PARIS, Monday, Nov. 7 - Rioters fired shotguns at the
police in a working-class suburb of Paris on Sunday,
wounding 10 officers as the country's fast-spreading urban
unrest escalated dangerously. Just hours earlier,
President Jacques Chirac called an emergency meeting of
top security officials and promised increased police
pressure to confront the violence.

"The republic is completely determined to be stronger than
those who want to sow violence or fear," Mr. Chirac said
at a news conference in the courtyard of Élysée Palace
after meeting with his internal security council. "The
last word must be from the law."

But the violence, which has become one of the most serious
challenges to governmental authority here in nearly 40
years, showed no sign of abating, and Sunday was the first
day that police officers had been wounded by gunfire in
the unrest. More than 3,300 vehicles have been destroyed,
along with dozens of public buildings and private
businesses, since the violence began.

"This is just the beginning," said Moussa Diallo, 22, a
tall, unemployed French-African man in Clichy-sous-Bois,
the working-class Parisian suburb where the violence
started Oct. 27. "It's not going to end until there are
two policemen dead."

He was referring to the two teenage boys, one of
Mauritanian origin and the other of Tunisian origin, whose
accidental deaths while hiding from the police touched off
the unrest, reflecting longstanding anger among many
immigrant families here over joblessness and
discrimination. Mr. Diallo did not say whether he had
taken part in the vandalism.

On Saturday night alone, the tally in the rioting reached
a peak of 1,300 vehicles burned, stretching into the heart
of Paris, where 35 vehicles were destroyed, and touching a
dozen other cities across the country.

Fires were burning in several places on Sunday night and
hundreds of youths were reported to have clashed with the
police in Grigny, a southern suburb of Paris where the
shooting took place. On Saturday night, a car was rammed
into the front of a McDonald's restaurant in the town.

"We have 10 policemen that were hit by gunfire in Grigny,
and two of them are in the hospital," Patrick Hamon, a
national police spokesman, said Monday morning.

He said one of the officers hospitalized had been hit in
the neck, the other in the leg, but added that neither
wound was considered life-threatening.

Rampaging youths have attacked the police and property in
cities as far away as Toulouse and Marseille and in the
resort towns of Cannes and Nice in the south, the
industrial city of Lille in the north and Strasbourg to
the east.

In Évreux, 60 miles west of Paris, shops, businesses, a
post office and two schools were destroyed, along with at
least 50 vehicles, in Saturday night's most concentrated
attacks. Five police officers and three firefighters were
injured in clashes with young rioters, a national police
spokesman said.

Despite help from thousands of reinforcements, the police
appeared powerless to stop the mayhem. As they apply
pressure in one area, the attacks slip away to another.

On Sunday, a gaping hole exposed a charred wooden
staircase of a smoke-blackened building in the historic
Marais district of Paris, where a car was set ablaze the
previous night. Florent Besnard, 24, said he and a friend
had just turned into the quiet Rue Dupuis when they were
passed by two running youths. Within seconds, a car
farther up the street was engulfed in flames, its windows
popping and tires exploding as the fire spread to the
building and surrounding vehicles.

"I think it's going to continue," said Mr. Besnard, who is
unemployed.

The attack angered people in the neighborhood, which
includes the old Jewish quarter and is still a center of
Jewish life in the city. "We escaped from Romania with
nothing and came here and worked our fingers to the bone
and never asked for anything, never complained," said
Liliane Zump, a woman in her 70's, shaking with fury on
the street outside the scarred building.

While the arson is more common than in the past, it has
become a feature of life in the working-class suburbs,
peopled primarily by North African and West African
immigrants and their French-born children. Unemployment in
the neighborhoods is double and sometimes triple the 10
percent national average, while incomes are about 40
percent lower.

While everyone seems to agree that the latest violence was
touched off by the deaths of the teenagers last week, the
unrest no longer has much to do with the incident.

"It was a good excuse, but it's fun to set cars on fire,"
said Mohamed Hammouti, a 15-year-old boy in
Clichy-sous-Bois, sitting Sunday outside the gutted
remnants of a gymnasium near his home. Like many people
interviewed, he denied having participated in the
violence.

Most people said they sensed that the escalation of the
past few days had changed the rules of the game: besides
the number of attacks, the level of destruction has grown
sharply, with substantial businesses and public buildings
going down in flames. Besides the gunfire on Sunday,
residents of some high-rise apartment blocks have been
throwing steel boccie balls and improvised explosives at
national riot police officers patrolling below.

In the Parisian suburb of Aubervilliers early Sunday, with
smoke hanging in the air and a helicopter humming
overhead, a helmeted police officer in a flak jacket
carried a soft drink bottle gingerly away from where it
had landed near him and his colleagues moments before. The
bottle, half-filled with a clear liquid and nails, had
failed to explode.

Teenagers in neighboring Clichy-sous-Bois said they had
seen young men preparing similar devices with acid and
aluminum foil. "They make a huge bang," said Sofiane
Belkalem, 13.

The police discovered what they described as a firebomb
factory in a building in Évry, south of Paris, in which
about 150 bombs were being constructed, a third of them
ready to use. Six minors were arrested.

Many politicians have warned that the unrest may be
coalescing into an organized movement, citing Internet
chatter that is urging other poor neighborhoods across
France to join in. But no one has emerged to take the lead
like Daniel Cohn-Bendit, known as Danny the Red, did
during the violent student protests that rocked the French
capital in 1968.

Though a majority of the youths committing the acts are
Muslim, and of African or North African origin, the mayhem
has yet to take on any ideological or religious overtones.
Youths in the neighborhoods say second-generation
Portuguese immigrants and even some children of native
French have taken part.

In an effort to stop the attacks and distance them from
Islam, France's most influential Islamic group issued a
religious edict, or fatwa, condemning the violence. "It
is formally forbidden for any Muslim seeking divine grace
and satisfaction to participate in any action that blindly
hits private or public property or could constitute an
attack on someone's life," the fatwa said, citing the
Koran and the teachings of Muhammad.

Young people in the poor neighborhoods incubating the
violence have consistently complained that police
harassment is mainly to blame. "If you're treated like a
dog, you react like a dog," said Mr. Diallo of
Clichy-sous-Bois, whose parents came to France from Mali
decades ago.

The youths have singled out the French interior minister,
Nicolas Sarkozy, complaining about his zero-tolerance
anticrime drive and dismissive talk. (He famously called
troublemakers in the poor neighborhoods dregs, using a
French slur that offended many people.)

But Mr. Sarkozy has not wavered, and after suffering
initial isolation within the government, with at least one
minister openly criticizing him, the government has closed
ranks around him. Mr. Chirac, who is under political and
popular pressure to stop the violence, said Sunday that
those responsible would face arrest and trial, echoing
earlier vows by Mr. Sarkozy. More than 500 people have
been arrested, some as young as 13.

The government response is as much a test between Mr.
Sarkozy and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, both of
whom want to succeed Mr. Chirac as president, as it is a
test between the government and disaffected youths.

Mr. Villepin, a former foreign minister, has focused on a
more diplomatic approach, consulting widely with community
leaders and young second-generation immigrants to come up
with a promised "action plan" that he said would address
frustrations in the underprivileged neighborhoods. He has
released no details of the plan.

If the damage escalates and sympathy for the rioters
begins to fray, Mr. Sarkozy could well emerge the
politically stronger of the two.

Ariane Bernard contributed reporting for this article.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501515.html

washingtonpost.com

Rage of French Youth Is a Fight for Recognition

Spreading Rampage in Country's Slums Is Rooted in
Alienation and Abiding Government Neglect

By Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 6, 2005; A01

LE BLANC-MESNIL, France, Nov. 5 -- Mohammed Rezzoug,
caretaker of the municipal gymnasium and soccer field,
knows far more about the youths hurling firebombs and
torching cars on the streets of this Paris suburb than do
the police officers and French intelligence agents
struggling to nail the culprits.

He can identify most of the perpetrators. So can almost
everyone else in the neighborhoods that have been
attacked.

"They're my kids," said Rezzoug, a garrulous 45-year-old
with thinning black hair and skin the color of a walnut.

While French politicians say the violence now circling and
even entering the capital of France and spreading to towns
across the country is the work of organized criminal
gangs, the residents of Le Blanc-Mesnil know better. Many
of the rioters grew up playing soccer on Rezzoug's field.
They are the children of baggage handlers at nearby
Charles de Gaulle International Airport and cleaners at
the local schools.

"It's not a political revolution or a Muslim revolution,"
said Rezzoug. "There's a lot of rage. Through this
burning, they're saying, 'I exist, I'm here.' "

Such a dramatic demand for recognition underscores the
chasm between the fastest growing segment of France's
population and the staid political hierarchy that has been
inept at responding to societal shifts. The youths
rampaging through France's poorest neighborhoods are the
French-born children of African and Arab immigrants, the
most neglected of the country's citizens. A large
percentage are members of the Muslim community that
accounts for about 10 percent of France's 60 million
people.

One of Rezzoug's "kids" -- the countless youths who use
the sports facilities he oversees -- is a husky,
French-born 18-year-old whose parents moved here from
Ivory Coast. At 3 p.m. on Saturday, he'd just awakened and
ventured back onto the streets after a night of setting
cars ablaze.

"We want to change the government," he said, a black
baseball cap pulled low over large, chocolate-brown eyes
and an ebony face. "There's no way of getting their
attention. The only way to communicate is by burning."

Like other youths interviewed about their involvement in
the violence of the last 10 days, he spoke on the
condition he not be identified for fear the police would
arrest him.

But he and others described the nightly rampages without
fear, surrounded by groups of younger boys who listened
with rapt attention. A few yards away, older residents of
the neighborhood, many with gray hair, passed out notices
appealing for an end to the violence.

A man with wire-rimmed glasses handed one of the sheets to
the black-capped youth. He accepted the paper, glanced at
it and smiled respectfully at his elder. The boy then
carefully folded it in half and continued the conversation
about how the nightly targets are selected.

"We don't plan anything," he said. "We just hit whatever
we find at the moment."

In Le Blanc-Mesnil, halfway between the northern edge of
Paris's city limits and the country's largest airport,
youths have burned a gym, a youth center and scores of
cars and trucks. Residents here say the violence that
began in these northern suburbs on Oct. 27 is the worst
ever in these low-income neighborhoods and the most
widespread social unrest in France since student riots
nearly four decades ago.

Rezzoug said about 18 youths between the ages of 15 and 25
are responsible for most of the fires and attacks on
police in Le Blanc-Mesnil, though he said some young men
from neighboring towns have joined in the mayhem. The
youths said they dodge the authorities by splitting into
small groups, using their cellular telephones and text
messaging to alert each other to the location of police
and firefighters.

For the young men of Le Blanc-Mesnil and hundreds in other
impoverished suburbs, one man represents all they find
abhorrent in the French government: Interior Minister
Nicolas Sarkozy, who has been considered the country's
leading contender in the 2007 presidential elections. Last
month, he recommended waging a "war without mercy" against
criminals and other troublemakers in the poor areas.

A week later, two Muslim teenagers from the northern
suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois were electrocuted in a power
substation where they were hiding from police who they
believed were chasing them. French officials have said
police were not pursuing the youths. Their deaths
triggered the violence that quickly spread, particularly
when Sarkozy called the perpetrators of the violence
"scum" and "thugs."

"I'm a citizen of France, but I don't count," said an
athletic 28-year-old who identified himself only as Abdel.
With his trim black beard and short hair gelled into shiny
black wavelets, Abdel hovered on the edge of the circle
surrounding the youths who admitted to their involvement
in the violence.

"They call us maggots," added a thin teenager hunched
inside a thin polyester windbreaker that offered little
protection from the damp chill of a gray fall afternoon.

Beyond their hatred of Sarkozy, the youths involved in the
rampages and their companions offer a disparate list of
grievances against the government.

Abdel, echoing the anger of many of the youths, said he
resented the French government's efforts to thrust Muslim
leaders into the role of mediators between the police and
the violent demonstrators.

"This has nothing to do with religion," he said. "But
non-Muslims are afraid of people like me with a beard. I
look suspicious to them. Discrimination is all around us.
We live it every day. It's become a habit. It's in the
air."

He continued: "I grew up in France, yet I speak of God and
religion. I have a double culture. I belong to both. We
should stop the labeling."

Rezzoug, the caretaker, said he has seen local youths
struggle with deep personal conflicts caused by their dual
cultures. "They go to the mosque and pray," he said. "But
this is France, so they also drink and party."

"They also are out to prove to their parents and brothers
and uncles they can't take it any more," he said. "They're
burning the places where they play, where they sit --
they're burning their own playpens."

Le Blanc-Mesnil is not a community where youths aspire to
spend their lives. There is none of the glamour that most
of the world associates with Paris, just a 25-minute drive
or train ride away. It is an industrial city of boxy
apartment complexes and strip malls. In a nation where
unemployment has hovered at 10 percent this year, the
rates are here four to five times as high among people
under 25.

"We feel rejected, compared to the kids who live in better
neighborhoods," said Nasim, a chunky 16-year-old with
braces and acne. "Everything here is broken down and
abandoned. There's no place for the little kids to go."

As on most Saturday afternoons, there was little for Nasim
or his friends to do. They sauntered among the older
youths who spent the late afternoon hanging out on street
corners or the sidewalks in front of coffee shops.

Several of the older youths fingered pockets bulging with
plastic packets of hashish for sale or trade. As they read
local newspaper accounts of their previous night's
exploits, they began discussing Saturday night's plans
with more of an air of boredom than a commitment to a
cause.

"We don't have the American dream here," said Rezzoug, as
he surveyed the clusters of young men. "We don't even have
the French dream here."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

--

--------------------------------------------------------
http://cyberjournal.org

"Apocalypse Now and the Brave New World"
http://www.cyberjournal.org/cj/rkm/Apocalypse_and_NWO.html

Posting archives:
http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?dateJan2006&batch%&lists=newslog

Subscribe to low-traffic list:
cj-subscribe@...
___________________________________________
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a
prior interest in receiving the included information for
research and educational purposes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cj-unsubscribe@...
For additional commands, e-mail: cj-help@...








YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "dontchangeyourself"on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
dontchangeyourself-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.











There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say there
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38976 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: imperial power
Sprechen Sie Deutch meine freund?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefn Ullarsson
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: imperial power


Valetudo quod fortuna Cn Iulius;

On 11/8/05, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> Salve Pauline.
>
> The experience your nation has had at "liberating" other less
> fortunate nations is similar to the quandary that confronted Rome in
> its early years of expansion outside of Italy. [excision]
>
> Vale
> Caesar
>

One of the more thoughtful essays I've ever scene on a working meaning
of Imperialism.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
--
"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances
with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean,
as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be
understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing
engagements."
- George Washington's Farewell Address,
September 17, 1796


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date: 11/8/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38977 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: LUDI PLEBEII opened!
CAIUS CURIUS SATURNINUS TRIBUNUS PLEBIS QUIRITIBUS SPD,

As an Tribunus Plebis elected by the people of Nova Roma I declare the
Ludi Plebeii 2758 opened starting from today, November 8th.* Although
Ludi Plebeii is originally a plebeian festival, everyone is invited to
honour Iuppiter with participation and offerings. The festivities last
for ten days and follow this program:

4th November (no program)
5th November (no program)
6th November (no program)
7th November (no program)
8th November Opening of the games
9th November Information about Ludi Plebeii and Jupiter
10th November Information about Religious Aspect (Marcus Horatius
Piscinus), Quiz 1
11th November Quiz 2
12th November Quiz 3
13th November Quiz 4
14th November Quiz 5
15th November Ludi Circenses Quarter Races
16th November Ludi Circenses Semifinal Races
17th November Ludi Circenses Final Races, Announcement of the Winner of
Writing Contest, Closing games

You can find all the information about how to take part into the events
from the Ludi website:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/ludiplebeii/


*If you are wondering why am I posting this and not the Plebeian Aedile
Servius Labienus Cicero whose duty would have been to arrange this
Ludi: the reason is that neither the Tribunes or other Plebeian Aedile
Manius Constantinus Serapio have been able to contact Servius Labienus
Cicero, and since there has been no program arranged 4th-7th of
November we assume he has disappeared at least temporarely. I discussed
about this with other Tribunes and since Manius Constantinus Serapio
has already arranged the magnificient Ludi Cerialia and is unable to
arrange this event due macronational work traveling, we felt that as
Plebeians we need to do something and do best we can to provide the
citizens and Gods the Ludi the deserve. I'm greatly indebted for my
colleagues Marca Hortensia Maior and Domitius Constantinus Fuscus to
arrange these events as well as my wife Emilia Curia Finnica who kindly
gave permission to use some of the materials she had prepared for last
year's Ludi Plebeii, many thanks for you all!

Also I would like to point out that this event is arranged for
citizens, and only actively participating into it, we can make this
Ludi memorable, without participants the Ludi is sad sight like an
empty circus, with participants it's what we Romans live for: greater
glory of Roman people and it's Gods!

Valete and stay tuned for more information about how to participate to
the events.

Caius Curius Saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38978 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
A. Apollonius Q. Maximo omnibusque sal.

> Here in Nova Roma, we have a strange situation.
> Since we don't have our
> armed slaves,
> or lictors or bodyguards, everybody is free to
> insult everybody else, with no
> retribution possible. Respect in Rome was directly
> tied to auctoritas,
> (political clout) patronage, wealth and power with
> the ability to hire thugs to
> rough up people. (Sounds a lot like the American
> Mafia, doesn't it?) Then we
> are shocked when we "gray beards" who have been with
> NR since the beginning, and
> have accumulated all sorts of titles and honors in
> service
> to the republic are dissed. We shouldn't be.
> One here can have all the wealth and power in the
> world, but unless he is
> willing to travel outside his limited boundaries in
> the actual world, it
> impresses no one. This is why the flame wars and
> insults appear so freely on these
> lists.

This is an interesting point, but I think there's more
to say about the way influence worked in the ancient
republic. For one thing, until the late republic it
very rarely came down to gangs of thugs fighting in
the streets, or even - as far as the sources say -
intimidating people in the back-streets. It was much
more a matter of patronage and constraints exercised
by social and political networks. If we're imagining
what would have happened in a dispute such as ours in
the old days, we must think about what would have
happened before it went as far as violence.

First, we would both be part of a network of social,
political, and economic relationships. You would have
your supporters, including people who agree with your
political views, people who depend on you
economically, people who hope you will advance their
careers, and so on. You might also be a supporter of
someone more senior than yourself in the network. I
would be in a similar position, though my junior age
and rank would mean that I would probably have fewer
supporters below me and, on the other hand, would be a
supporter of more people above me.

Our various contacts, above, below, and alongside us,
would have their own views on our dispute, whether as
a matter of principle or because it might affect their
own interests. Some might want us to make peace, and
would use their various different types of
relationship to encourage us in that direction; others
might urge us to fight harder. Naturally I would be
more susceptible to pressure from my contacts, than
you to pressure from yours, because I would be more
dependent on my contacts than they on me, whereas you
would be dependent on relatively few people.

Nonetheless, it is entirely possible for supporters to
exert influence on their leaders. A leader must have
supporters in order to get things done in this ancient
republican world. They are dependent on him, but if
they think that another leader or patron will serve
their needs better they may desert him, and then he
will be left without the means of exerting his
influence. So if a large number of your supporters had
some strong reason to want you to back down, they
might well be able to persuade you to do so in spite
of your apparently dominant position. This might
happen if, for instance, a number of people as senior
as you or more so decided that, although they didn't
want to get involved in the dispute directly, they
would nonetheless rather like you to lose it; they
would then put pressure on their supporters, and that
pressure would be transmitted sideways to yours, and
then upwards again to you. In the small world of Roman
politics everyone is connected to everyone else either
directly or indirectly, so pressure at one point in
the system has an effect throughout the system.

So I think your analysis is rather simplistic. The
Roman political elite was a complex system and
operated in subtle ways. Wealth was important, but it
wasn't a guarantee of influence: many poor men were
influential, and many rich men were not. There were
other ways to attract support. Military success was
one, because it lent a person a certain glamour which
attracted people even though it didn't necessarily
mean he had anything much to offer them by way of
money or advancement. Another, though less common, was
the giving of legal advice: a person who gave free
legal advice earned a lot of favours in return even
though he didn't give his supporters any money or
political assistance. Some people seem to have built
political careers on sheer charisma without being able
to offer their supporters any obvious benefits.

Sheer wealth was not the only way to attract
supporters back then. And, conversely, it could still
be a way to attract supporters nowadays. If you have a
lot of money, there's nothing stopping you paying
people to support you. Sure, you couldn't pay them to
go and beat me up, but you could certainly pay them to
say nasty things about me on this list and in private,
to vote against me in elections, and generally to make
my public life rather difficult.

Similarly, you often mention the fact that you've been
here for a long time. Well, having been around for a
long time was no guarantee of support in the old days.
One could get be born, live, and die of old age in
total obscurity without attracting any political
supporters at all. To be sure, nobiles had more
influence than novi homines, but that wasn't because
they themselves had been around for a long time; it
was because they had influential ancestors. They
inherited a lot of the prestige and influence of their
parents and grandparents, whereas a novus homo had to
build up his support from nothing. But we are all novi
homines here, more or less. None of us had any
supporters ten years ago.

And what about the third thing you might feel ought to
give you influence: your status as a senator and
former consul? Well, why did these things confer
influence in the old days? Partly because they show
success and service to the republic, and that attracts
respect. But that could be easily lost: the number of
people who got as far as the consulate and then
vanished into obscurity is pretty large. More
importantly, a senator attracted supporters because he
had a voice in the senate and magistrates might listen
to his advice, so he was a useful friend to have. But
this, of course, depended on his actually being
influential in the senate. If he has no allies in the
senate, and if magistrates rarely listen to his
advice, then he is not much use to anyone.

Things haven't changed so much. We still have our
supporters, our leaders, our opponents. If you haven't
got as many supporters as you'd like, well, maybe it's
because we're all so un-Roman, and maybe you can
comfort yourself by thinking that in the old days
you'd have been able to snap your fingers and have me
squashed. But maybe you wouldn't. Maybe the things
that deprive you of supporters today would have
deprived you of supporters in the old days too. Maybe
the world is so different today that nobody has large
numbers of supporters ready to leap to their aid. But
maybe someone people have, and it's just you who
hasn't.

I think my level of support and yours are about the
same: not much. I haven't got much because I haven't
earned it yet. You haven't got much because you've
squandered it.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38979 From: Caius Curius Saturninus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: LUDI PLEBEII: chariot races
Salvete,

As promised, here is information how to take part into Ludi Plebeii.

Mission: TO FILL THE CIRCUS MAXIMUS WITH CHARIOTS

All you need to do is to send me privately following information before
14th of November:

A. His/her name in Nova Roma;
B. The name of his/her driver;
C. The name of his/her chariot;
D. His/her tactics (1-6) for the Quarter and Semifinals;
E. His/her tactics (1-6) for the Finals;
F. The name of his/her "factio" or team (Albata, Praesina, Russata, or
Veneta);
G. Dirty actions against another factio in a specific round
(quarter-final, semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in
support of it (an entrant does not have to pay sesterces to commission
a dirty action, but doing so increases the chances of success);
H. Defence against dirty actions in a specific round (quarter-final,
semi-final, or final) and amount of sesterces paid in support of it (an
entrant does not have to pay sesterces to defend against a dirty
action, but doing so decreases the chances of success of the dirty
action);
I. If sesterces from multiple entrants are pooled to take a dirty
action or defend against a dirty action, the subscription of each
entrant of the pool must so indicate.

More information about the rules and details you can find at the Ludi
website:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/ludiplebeii

And naturally, you can ask me about any question you may have.


Valete,


Caius Curius Saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38980 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: The new coins & deterring retention.
A. Apollonius M. Lucretio omnibusque sal.

Fair enough. It's true that we can't all rock the boat
at once. I'm not sure that the distinction between
patrician and plebejan is a very helpful one, though,
even so. Much more meaningful for most of republican
history was the distinction between nobilis and
non-nobilis, which operated in a slightly different
way. It was still a case of a small group of people on
top and a large group of under-people, but, unlike the
patrician / plebejan gap, there was the possibility of
movement up and, to a lesser extent, down. One could
earn noble status, not for oneself, but for one's
children; similarly, although one never technically
lost noble status, one could certainly contribute to
the descent of one's family into total obscurity by
inaction. So we shouldn't be too passively accepting
of our stations in life: it is perfectly Roman to
aspire. :)





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38981 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Salve Caesariensis,

The current situation of the "underclasses" in the USA is strictly due to the "ultra-liberal" elite that has dominated the education system for 40 years here and considers multiculturalism and diversity much more important that reading, writing and arithmatics in preparing the inner city youth for the "real" world. You have no idea the kind of muck these kids are getting from the schools and colleges in the USA today. Add to that the widespread drug culture and we have a catastrophe in the making here in the USA.

These kids aren't even qualified to work at fast food restaurants. Recently a nearby McDonald's shut down for the day because their cash registers were down and they couldn't tabulate the charges or the 5% tax by hand! PC has run amuck for so long in our schools that immigrants are now the typically the most qualified applicants for higher level technical jobs. So please don't listen to the propaganda machine that publish most of the article out there explaining the downtrodden American "underclasses" as being subjugated by the capitalist upper classes. Believe me there are problems there as well but it is not the reason for it.

A Korean family moved into town less than 5 years ago and started a "nail" parlor. Because the USA gives them a 7 year tax free status as legal immigrants, they already "own" the half a block that the business is in and have tripled the rent for everyone there! AND they still pay no taxes!!!

We have a lot of problems in the USA but they are completely the opposite as most people abroad believe since the New York Times with their dribble sets the agenda for such crap being published.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus


----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political correctness?


Yet disgruntled people do riot in America and appear to run low-key permanent
no-go areas on a fairly regular basis. The news so far is fairly consistent
that these are poor youg men who believe themselves overlooked and not treated
equally as other French citizens, whther that is actually true or not. Because
of where they live and who they are, they are mostly descendents of ex-colonial
immigrants but by no means all and so far there appears to be no attempt to
take it over as a political or religious co-ordinated movement. I have a very
long article on it showing how this kind of thing is the inevitable result of
putting money before people. Of course it will be claimed by parties with a use
for it and has been on the international scale, first by Moscow and latterly by
various Muslim offshoots with their own internal agendas. Iran for instance
needs to show its sect compatible with modernity and a degree of democracy
while others are not or must sell out to materialism, one thing all Iranians
have rejected however little they like some of their puritanism.
Caesariensis

Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part

"I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people from
expressing their dissatisfaction with the present administration?"

Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American citizenswere free to
express their
dissatisfaction with the present or anyAmerican administration.

I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to the polls
theylose.
Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend tobe
conservatives they lose.
The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC,the Washington Post, La and NY Times might
as well be an adjunct to theDNC.

If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have moreto with the fact
that it illustrates clearly that the "West"has a very big Islamic problem on
its hands and not just on distantbattlefields.

We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the currentadministration.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say there
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date: 11/8/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38982 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Ave M Cassius:

On 11/8/05, Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Sprechen Sie Deutch meine freund?
>

Unfortunately, my command of the German I learned in high school is
limited to just enough to get a beer, find the "rest room," get to the
nearest police station and so forth.

So I would say, "eine bischen."

I am, though, one of the best Heathen poets writing in modern American English.

I also, write a poem to the Roman spirit from time to time.

Ad libertas per aspira - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38983 From: Maior Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Venationes: Gladiators! Subscribe for the Ludi Plebeii
M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
Many cheers to Tribune Caius Curius Saturninus for making sure the
Ludi Plebeii commence!!

subscribe now your favorite gladiator, gladiatrix or animal for the
Ludi Plebeii, remember this is the Roman way of honouring the people
and Iuppiter OP!! so quirites please write to me at
rory12001atyahoo.com

& check the Ludi Plebei website as it describes the wonderful
Retiarus, Thraex, Murmillo and more. Learn about gladiators and
tactics. the games will be exciting, I promise!!
http://www.insulaumbra.com/ludii_plebeii/ludi_ple_venationes.html

Then simply write to me, you can choose 2 Gladiators, animals or both
send to me Marca Hortensia at rory12001atyahoo.com

-name of gladiator or animal
-type of gladiator or animal
-the tactics, that you will choose among these 3:

1. Defensive
2. "Yourself"
3. "Total Attack"

If you have any questions just ask me Marca Hortensia and I'm glad
to help!
again for the rules just check the Ludi Plebeii site here:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/ludi_plebeii/

"Venationes" Quirites, join in the celebration to honour Iuppiter!
& praise our Tribune Saturninus who has taken on
this job with the absence of the plebian aedile,
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38984 From: Sensei Phil Perez Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Salve Venator,

Did you miss my point that badly? Never mind my friend. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Jorge Santayana 1863-1952

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus
----- Original Message -----
From: Stefn Ullarsson
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power


Ave M Cassius:

On 11/8/05, Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Sprechen Sie Deutch meine freund?
>

Unfortunately, my command of the German I learned in high school is
limited to just enough to get a beer, find the "rest room," get to the
nearest police station and so forth.

So I would say, "eine bischen."

I am, though, one of the best Heathen poets writing in modern American English.

I also, write a poem to the Roman spirit from time to time.

Ad libertas per aspira - Venator


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date: 11/8/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38985 From: Stefn Ullarsson Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: German skill - Religio Sep, was Re: imperial power
Ave Philippus

On 11/8/05, Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:
> Salve Venator,
>
> Did you miss my point that badly? Never mind my friend. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Jorge Santayana 1863-1952
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>

I suppose I did ,-)

Venii, the sometimes credulous Naif <BEG>

"We must welcome the future, remembering that soon it will be the past.
And we must respect the past, remembering that once it was all that was
humanly possible." - Santayana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38986 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
Salve Maece Cassi et omnes,

Plus you could give each Nova Roman citizen 1 million US; within 10
years some would be on the cover of Forbes, others would be
maintaining the status quo and others may become addicts of one sort
or another and poor. There's an old saying that a fool and his money
soon part.

Bill Gates was speaking a while back at a seminar in Canada. He was
also pointing out that young kids and students perhaps should not be
coddled and sheltered from the 3 r's, work and social responsibility
in the school system. When they get out of their Alice In Disneyland
situations they will find how ugly the real world will be. If you
have a fight with your partner, kids have runny noses, arguments
with family and friends, beset by a few bullies, financial stress,
eating disorders, trouble integrating because of your culture and be
fail to report for work and do your job, there shall be no
counciling, sympathy, group talks, anger management sessions etc.
No, you will be fired, your reputation, tarred with pitch and
feathers and quickly run off to be replaced by someone more reliable.
since others have to take up the slack for you affecting their life
and times off as well.

Such is life! (Ned Kelly's last words at the scaffold)

Regards,











--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sensei Phil Perez"
<senseiphil@n...> wrote:
>
> Salve Caesariensis,
>
> The current situation of the "underclasses" in the USA is strictly
due to the "ultra-liberal" elite that has dominated the education
system for 40 years here and considers multiculturalism and
diversity much more important that reading, writing and arithmatics
in preparing the inner city youth for the "real" world. You have no
idea the kind of muck these kids are getting from the schools and
colleges in the USA today. Add to that the widespread drug culture
and we have a catastrophe in the making here in the USA.
>
> These kids aren't even qualified to work at fast food restaurants.
Recently a nearby McDonald's shut down for the day because their
cash registers were down and they couldn't tabulate the charges or
the 5% tax by hand! PC has run amuck for so long in our schools that
immigrants are now the typically the most qualified applicants for
higher level technical jobs. So please don't listen to the
propaganda machine that publish most of the article out there
explaining the downtrodden American "underclasses" as being
subjugated by the capitalist upper classes. Believe me there are
problems there as well but it is not the reason for it.
>
> A Korean family moved into town less than 5 years ago and started
a "nail" parlor. Because the USA gives them a 7 year tax free status
as legal immigrants, they already "own" the half a block that the
business is in and have tripled the rent for everyone there! AND
they still pay no taxes!!!
>
> We have a lot of problems in the USA but they are completely the
opposite as most people abroad believe since the New York Times with
their dribble sets the agenda for such crap being published.
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: me-in-@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the
Romans embrace political correctness?
>
>
> Yet disgruntled people do riot in America and appear to run low-
key permanent
> no-go areas on a fairly regular basis. The news so far is
fairly consistent
> that these are poor youg men who believe themselves overlooked
and not treated
> equally as other French citizens, whther that is actually true
or not. Because
> of where they live and who they are, they are mostly
descendents of ex-colonial
> immigrants but by no means all and so far there appears to be
no attempt to
> take it over as a political or religious co-ordinated movement.
I have a very
> long article on it showing how this kind of thing is the
inevitable result of
> putting money before people. Of course it will be claimed by
parties with a use
> for it and has been on the international scale, first by Moscow
and latterly by
> various Muslim offshoots with their own internal agendas. Iran
for instance
> needs to show its sect compatible with modernity and a degree
of democracy
> while others are not or must sell out to materialism, one thing
all Iranians
> have rejected however little they like some of their puritanism.
> Caesariensis
>
> Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part
>
> "I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
> on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled people
from
> expressing their dissatisfaction with the present
administration?"
>
> Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie American
citizenswere free to
> express their
> dissatisfaction with the present or anyAmerican administration.
>
> I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to
the polls
> theylose.
> Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretend
tobe
> conservatives they lose.
> The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC,the Washington Post, La and
NY Times might
> as well be an adjunct to theDNC.
>
> If the "old media" is not coving this story it might have
moreto with the fact
> that it illustrates clearly that the "West"has a very big
Islamic problem on
> its hands and not just on distantbattlefields.
>
> We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help the
currentadministration.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> There is a war between those who say there is a war and those
who say there
> isn't.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The
fall of the roman empire
> Roman empire
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:
11/8/2005
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38987 From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romans embrace political
I don't recall the underclasses in 'Grapes of Wrath' being much better off.
Then again, it seems that on the one hand you expect better education allowing
them a chance but on the other resent immigtrrants doing what immigrants have
been expected and proud to do since there was a USA! Anyway, it has no bearing
on the French situation which is supposed to be assimilationist and clearly is
not under the present right-wing government at least. This is a geographical
problem, not an ethnic one, though by nature a large number of the poor in those
areas are of migrant descent. It is just no longer possible to work your way up
from the bottom because of the emphasis put on formal training.
Caesariensis





Salve Caesariensis,

The current situation of the "underclasses" in the USA is strictlydue to the
"ultra-liberal" elite that has dominated the educationsystem for 40 years here
and considers multiculturalism and diversity muchmore important that reading,
writing and arithmatics in preparing the innercity youth for the "real" world.
You have no idea the kind of muckthese kids are getting from the schools and
colleges in the USA today. Add tothat the widespread drug culture and we have a
catastrophe in the making herein the USA.

These kids aren't even qualified to work at fast food restaurants. Recently
anearby McDonald's shut down for the day because their cash registers were
downand they couldn't tabulate the charges or the 5% tax by hand! PC has run
amuckfor so long in our schools that immigrants are now the typically the
mostqualified applicants for higher level technical jobs. So please don't
listento the propaganda machine that publish most of the article out
thereexplaining the downtrodden American "underclasses" as beingsubjugated by
the capitalist upper classes. Believe me there are problemsthere as well but it
is not the reason for it.

A Korean family moved into town less than 5 years ago and started a "nail"
parlor. Because the USA gives them a 7 year tax free status aslegal immigrants,
they already "own" the half a block that thebusiness is in and have tripled the
rent for everyone there! AND they stillpay no taxes!!!

We have a lot of problems in the USA but they are completely the opposite asmost
people abroad believe since the New York Times with their dribble setsthe agenda
for such crap being published.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus


----- Original Message -----
From: me-in-@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Situation in Gallia - France Would the Romansembrace
political correctness?


Yet disgruntled people do riot in America and appear to runlow-key permanent
no-go areas on a fairly regular basis. The newsso far is fairly consistent
that these are poor youg men whobelieve themselves overlooked and not treated
equally asother French citizens, whther that is actually true or not. Because
of where they live and who they are, they are mostly descendentsof
ex-colonial
immigrants but by no means all and so far there appears to be no attempt to
take it over as a political orreligious co-ordinated movement. I have a very
long articleon it showing how this kind of thing is the inevitable result of
putting money before people. Of course it will be claimed byparties with a
use
for it and has been on the international scale, first by Moscow and latterly
by
various Muslim offshootswith their own internal agendas. Iran for instance
needs toshow its sect compatible with modernity and a degree of democracy
while others are not or must sell out to materialism, one thingall Iranians
have rejected however little they like some oftheir puritanism.
Caesariensis

Salve G Licinius Crassus who said in part

"I wonder if American media outlets are not deliberately sitting
on the story to not encourage some of our own disgruntled peoplefrom
expressing their dissatisfaction with the presentadministration?"

Last time I checked "disgruntled people" ie Americancitizenswere free to
express their
dissatisfaction with the present or anyAmerican administration.

I also believe that every time the opposition party has gone to thepolls
theylose.
Every single time democrats act like democrats and don't pretendtobe
conservatives they lose.
The "old media" CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC,the Washington Post, Laand NY Times might
as well be an adjunct to theDNC.

If the "old media" is not coving this story it mighthave moreto with the fact
that it illustrates clearly that the"West"has a very big Islamic problem on
its hands andnot just on distantbattlefields.

We know for a fact that they are NOT trying to help thecurrentadministration.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who saythere
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the
roman empire
Roman empire


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on theweb.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:11/8/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history
Fall of the roman empire
The fall of the romanempire
Roman empire




YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on theweb.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an emailto:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.











There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say there
isn't.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38988 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Web site
Salvete Omnes,

I note that messages sent to the webmaster via the contacts page come
back "User unknown" (bouncing off <richmal@...>).

M. Luctretius Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38989 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Web site
Salve M. Luctreti Agricola,

Richmal@ was the email name for Quintus Cassius Calvus who left and
signed off from NR about 2 months back. He was the former webmaster.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I note that messages sent to the webmaster via the contacts page come
> back "User unknown" (bouncing off <richmal@c...>).
>
> M. Luctretius Agricola
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38990 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
> Salue, M. Cassi Philippe, et saluete, omnes!
>
> Salve Paulinus,
>
> I agree completely. Although I received my BA back when it was inexpensive to
> go to college ($3,400 Total indebtedness after all was said and done). That
> wouldn't pay for one semester at a state college today, and the quality of
> instruction has sadly gone steadily downhill since then.
>
> I have learned more about Roman history and the ancient world in general from
> NR members on these lists and at re-enactment events than from all the ancient
> and Roman history classes I took while in college. The Latin class we are both
> in right now is much more challenging than any class I ever took while in
> college! Ironically, because it is being offered for free here it has not been
> taken seriously by many. I believe we are down to six active students just a
> month and a half into it.
>
> ATS: There are actually more than that, for some students have had
> unusual macro life events which have temporarily distracted them from learning
> Latin. As you know, too, there are a good many auditors, who for various
> reasons couldn¹t keep up with the work, but wanted to learn.
>
> We do learn a lot from each other here as so many people with such
> divergent interests centering around ancient Rome share their knowledge.
>
> What a shame. The caliber of instruction being offered here is world class!
>
> ATS: Why, thank you! The Latin faculty at least does provide a lot of
> information above and beyond what¹s in the book, and I trust that other
> praeceptores do as well. That¹s why you have a teacher...
>
> If you think that the consonant stem third declension nouns are bad, wait
> Œtil you see the ­i stems... ;-)
>
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
A. Tullia Scholastica


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:54 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mos Maiorum - something to think about
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Hate to sound mercenary here but I dunno; I like paying some sort of
> fee on principle. You can get a lot out of NR depending what you are
> willing to put into it. I realize as time goes on that we need to
> get to the field, have face to face meetings, parties and all but
> for the time being we are all learning from one another. We have
> experts from the classical field who give us much of their time and
> we all know that time is money for many people. Also many citizens
> come from various walke of life and I have learned on and off the
> lists about theology, philosophy, science, engineering, the
> military, movie industry etc. One time one of our citizens helped me
> clear up a computer glitch which may have cost me over 100.00 had I
> gone to some computer shop.
>
> Right now some citizens are taking Latin courses here. Community
> college and language schools usually cost about 200.00 for six
> weeks, university courses 25 years ago cost 200.00 for the two
> semesters but now I understand one Latin course would be 1000.00 +, -
> Now,in the past we took history, philosophy, religio romano and a
> few other courses to boot. All in all not a bad return for 10.00 per
> year don't you think?
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I recall a couple of months ago a prospective citizen
>> > proclaim that he would not pay a fee to use this list
>> > just on principal.
>> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> > <gn_iulius_caesar@y...> wrote:
>>> > > Salve Licini Crasse.
>>> > >
>>> > > Yes, that is indeed the most important question for
>> > Nova Roma to
>>> > > answer. How do we take our strengths and put them to
>> > work outside of
>>> > > this screen? We come back full circle to what Nova
>> > Roma is now and
>>> > > what it's citizens are prepared to do (or not as the
>> > case may be).
>>> > >
>>> > > Suffice it to say that Nova Roma obviously has a
>> > motivational
>>> > > problem, for if many of our citizens are not
>> > prepared to donate a
>>> > > mere 4 cents per day (rounded up) for their taxes,
>> > expecting them to
>>> > > spend considerably more on air fares, gas, or even
>> > just a
>>> > > contribution of time, to attend real-world
>> > activities maybe a
>>> > > forlorn hope.
>>> > >
>>> > > Having said that, it is clear that the number of
>> > real-world
>>> > > activities are increasing. It will be a slow
>> > process, but of course
>>> > > Rome wasn't built in a day (though one suspects had
>> > Nova Romans been
>>> > > in charge we may just have been laying the
>> > foundations for the first
>>> > > wall around the city when the Vandals charged in).
>>> > >
>>> > > We certainly could develop a vision and a plan. Yes,
>> > this isn't very
>>> > > Roman but they just bumbled and stumbled their way
>> > into developing
>>> > > what we know as Ancient Rome. One needs a plan to
>> > reconstruct, lest
>>> > > we end up bumbling and stumbling around for years to
>> > come.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale
>>> > > Gn. Iulius Caesar
>>> > >
>> > S P Q R
>> >
>> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>> >
>> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
>> > Roman Citizen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 38991 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2005-11-08
Subject: Re: Taxpayers as of October 25, 2758
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Lucretio Agricolae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
>
> M Lucretius Agricola Anniae Minuciae-Tiberiae Audenti Semproniae S.P.D.
>
> I agree that the advantages of such a system would be manifold.
>
> I wonder if we should use publicans? Private tax collecting agents
> were used in antiquity, I believe. Safeguards would have to be put in
> place, of course, but that is true whatever is done.
>
> ATS: Such a move may be in progress, and not because of this discussion.
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
>
A. Tullia Scholastica


>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens
> Sempronia" <annia@c...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve,
>> >
>> > It's a shame you have been wronged. Perhaps if Nova Roma had an
>> > online store that could accept credit cards or paypal payments, it'd
>> > make the process of a refund easier. It would also have documentation
>> > of who ordered what(invoices) available in case a problem arises.
>> > It'll definitely make things more efficient and professional. It
>> > wouldn't be that hard to put one up, I could make a mock-up of one if
>> > anyone wishes.
>> >
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> > Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aulus Sempronius Regulus
>> > <a_sempronius_regulus@y...> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve,
>>> > > His father, as he claimed died last Jan., and yet, end
>>> > > of last March he offered to sell me flags. At end of
>>> > > April/beginning of May, he apologized for the delay
>>> > > and said the flags were in the mail. He also said
>>> > > there were NR t-shirts in my size if I was interested.
>>> > > I said I was. Taxes could also be sent to the same PO.
>>> > > So, payment for two separate items, two separate
>>> > > checks, were sent last May. In June, he emailed
>>> > > several in NR he refused to send me the merchandise
>>> > > and admitted he held the checks. As of November,
>>> > > neither merchandise nor checks have been returned.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > > A.S.R.
>>> > >
>> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]