A. Apollonius C. Curio omnibus tribunis plebis sal.

The results of the certamen Petronianum were due to be
announced during the ludi Plebeji, which are now
nearly over. Is it your intention to announce the
results and, if not, can you tell us how and when they
will be announced?



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

avete omnes,

let the Praetor just add something here ;-) I have one idea why most
of the people in the ML is silent: that is because some of you have
exchanged this list for an internal american mailing list.

Mind you that I am one who is for free speech in this Forum, even if
Roma Antiqua should be the main topic, but, please (and this has
nothing to do with my Praetorian duties or there's nothing against the
law which was broken) understand that many people here simply are not
interested in internal political, social or cultural deeds.
There should be local mls for this, I know many provinciae have.

Just a quick note :-)

valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS
Praetor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

>
> Listen,Bush is no walk in the park but do we really
> want the NERONIAN Clintons back in the White House?
> Slick WILLIE may have Europe duped but NO WAY,not
> again!
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@n...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > *Ahem* God forbid! We cannot trust one person to
> come along and solve it. Ronald Reagan was one of a
> kind and did hold it together for a while. Caesar was
> also one of a kind and managed to hold it together for
> a while. Both men were despised by the elites of their
> nation. One was assassinated, the other was almost
> assassinated. Caesar eliminated the Gallic Menace,
> Reagan eliminated the Soviet Menace. The death of
> Caesar set in motion a whirlwind that ended in
> Autocratic rule by Octavian. The end of the Reagan
> administration has started a whirlwind as well. It is
> the closest to a civil war we could have in the USA
> without actually coming to blows. The last several
> elections prove my point as well as the attacks by the
> "elites" on the Bush Administration. The comparison
> could also be made between the Islamic Terrorist
> threat and the Jewish Revolt in the first century. The
> comparisons are weird.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tenney Frank and the Fall
> of Rome
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Unfortunately, at times I believe the
> Balkanization of the US has
> > already begun! With our current governmental
> system it seems unlikely
> > that a real leader will be elected anytime soon;
> we seem to be *ahem*
> > lacking in that department lately.
> >
> > The REAL question is...WWRD? What Would Rome Do?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
> >
> > raymond fuentes wrote:
> >
> > > When you live in a country that is a patchwork
> of
> > > people & ideals without a COMMON ground thats
> not a
> > > nation,its a way station until something better
> comes
> > > up
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> > > > Salve omnes,
> > > >
> > > > True, this seems to be happening- but (NOTE:
> PLAYING
> > > THE DEVIL'S
> > > > ADVOCATE) what is the criteria for judging one
> > > civilization against
> > > > another? Surely everyone recognizes ancient
> Rome as
> > > the greatest single
> > > > civilization in history- but there are also
> the
> > > Chinese civilization,
> > > > the rise of Islamic nations, the earlier
> Hellenic
> > > civilization, etc.
> > > > Just as we can't judge ancient Rome by
> modern-day
> > > standards, we can't
> > > > presuppose Western civilization to be any
> better
> > > than any other present
> > > > civilization- it's simply comparing apples to
> > > oranges. In my opinion,
> > > > civilizations aren't inherently any 'better'
> than
> > > others- just different.
> > > >
> > > > One may say, of course, "Muslim nations demean
> their
> > > women" or "The
> > > > Chinese murder their own children"...I don't
> agree
> > > with either practice
> > > > at all, BUT taken in the context of that
> particular
> > > society's situation
> > > > and needs those may be perfectly acceptable
> > > behaviors. It doesn't matter
> > > > if WE like it or not- it's their ball of wax,
> not
> > > ours. Who is to say
> > > > that the Masai of Africa are inferior because
> they
> > > don't have big cities
> > > > or scientific geniuses among them? They have a
> > > perfectly workable system
> > > > that has served them quite well for centuries-
> > > without resorting to wars
> > > > of conquest or economic blackmail- at a time
> when
> > > many of our own
> > > > Western nations are tearing themselves apart
> from
> > > within.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, however, I am proud to be of
> > > Germanic descent- the West
> > > > has it's problems, but every civilization goes
> > > through change over time.
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Severus Cordo omnibusque sal.

Thank you very much, A. Apollonius Cordus, for expressing what many Nova
Romans have been thinking about those discussions regarding United States
political affairs and particular interests, which are of no relevance for
us, since we are not citizens of that country, nor live there. I hope the
Nova Roman cives living in the United States, would have their own mail
list, such as we have almost everywhere else, and the main list remains
as a forum for all Nova Romans.

Valete,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR

--
_______________________________________________
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This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

My apologies. I will certainly keep the "we" in mind. The subject under discussion was and still is "Was Christianity a major cause for the demise of the Roman Empire?" The tangents this topic has taken are, well - typical of any discussion among many different personalities. The modern analogies are just useful devices to use in our debate and certainly more interesting than quoting some obscure book one of us may have read on the subject 150 years ago that no one but the person who brought it into the discussion to make his or her point has or will ever read. At least when these modern analogies are made, they are understood. Whether for any political/religious/cultural reason they are not liked is a different topic altogether. They are (at least on my part) not meant in any other way than to illustrate some aspect of the original discussion - I do try to stay focused on it like a dog on a bone although sometimes that damn bone gets buried by my pals ;-)

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Just a quick note


avete omnes,

let the Praetor just add something here ;-) I have one idea why most
of the people in the ML is silent: that is because some of you have
exchanged this list for an internal american mailing list.

Mind you that I am one who is for free speech in this Forum, even if
Roma Antiqua should be the main topic, but, please (and this has
nothing to do with my Praetorian duties or there's nothing against the
law which was broken) understand that many people here simply are not
interested in internal political, social or cultural deeds.
There should be local mls for this, I know many provinciae have.

Just a quick note :-)

valete
M IVL PERVSIANVS
Praetor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>
> Listen,Bush is no walk in the park but do we really
> want the NERONIAN Clintons back in the White House?
> Slick WILLIE may have Europe duped but NO WAY,not
> again!
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <senseiphil@n...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > *Ahem* God forbid! We cannot trust one person to
> come along and solve it. Ronald Reagan was one of a
> kind and did hold it together for a while. Caesar was
> also one of a kind and managed to hold it together for
> a while. Both men were despised by the elites of their
> nation. One was assassinated, the other was almost
> assassinated. Caesar eliminated the Gallic Menace,
> Reagan eliminated the Soviet Menace. The death of
> Caesar set in motion a whirlwind that ended in
> Autocratic rule by Octavian. The end of the Reagan
> administration has started a whirlwind as well. It is
> the closest to a civil war we could have in the USA
> without actually coming to blows. The last several
> elections prove my point as well as the attacks by the
> "elites" on the Bush Administration. The comparison
> could also be made between the Islamic Terrorist
> threat and the Jewish Revolt in the first century. The
> comparisons are weird.
> >
> > Vires et honos,
> > Marcus Cassius Philippus
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tenney Frank and the Fall
> of Rome
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Unfortunately, at times I believe the
> Balkanization of the US has
> > already begun! With our current governmental
> system it seems unlikely
> > that a real leader will be elected anytime soon;
> we seem to be *ahem*
> > lacking in that department lately.
> >
> > The REAL question is...WWRD? What Would Rome Do?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > G Licinius Crassus
> >
> > raymond fuentes wrote:
> >
> > > When you live in a country that is a patchwork
> of
> > > people & ideals without a COMMON ground thats
> not a
> > > nation,its a way station until something better
> comes
> > > up
> > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
> > > > Salve omnes,
> > > >
> > > > True, this seems to be happening- but (NOTE:
> PLAYING
> > > THE DEVIL'S
> > > > ADVOCATE) what is the criteria for judging one
> > > civilization against
> > > > another? Surely everyone recognizes ancient
> Rome as
> > > the greatest single
> > > > civilization in history- but there are also
> the
> > > Chinese civilization,
> > > > the rise of Islamic nations, the earlier
> Hellenic
> > > civilization, etc.
> > > > Just as we can't judge ancient Rome by
> modern-day
> > > standards, we can't
> > > > presuppose Western civilization to be any
> better
> > > than any other present
> > > > civilization- it's simply comparing apples to
> > > oranges. In my opinion,
> > > > civilizations aren't inherently any 'better'
> than
> > > others- just different.
> > > >
> > > > One may say, of course, "Muslim nations demean
> their
> > > women" or "The
> > > > Chinese murder their own children"...I don't
> agree
> > > with either practice
> > > > at all, BUT taken in the context of that
> particular
> > > society's situation
> > > > and needs those may be perfectly acceptable
> > > behaviors. It doesn't matter
> > > > if WE like it or not- it's their ball of wax,
> not
> > > ours. Who is to say
> > > > that the Masai of Africa are inferior because
> they
> > > don't have big cities
> > > > or scientific geniuses among them? They have a
> > > perfectly workable system
> > > > that has served them quite well for centuries-
> > > without resorting to wars
> > > > of conquest or economic blackmail- at a time
> when
> > > many of our own
> > > > Western nations are tearing themselves apart
> from
> > > within.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, however, I am proud to be of
> > > Germanic descent- the West
> > > > has it's problems, but every civilization goes
> > > through change over time.
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>






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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 11/15/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete:
I personally am very sympathetic to keeping Nova Roma discussion as
international as possible. However, the problem of provincial lists is that
they are not so simple in the United States. Should Nova Roma have a Nova
Rome USA list? Lacus Magni, for example, has an e-mail list. But it it only
the citizens of Lacus Magni, and does not include citizens from the West
coast, or the East coast of the United States. Likewise, citizens of other
USA provinces have lists, but those lists are for them.
Personally, I would rather citizens engage in discussion here. An Italian
Nova Roma list, or a Spanish Nova Roma list is essentially a provincial
list. But I feel a list for all of the United States would be problematic
becuase it would foster a USA vs. Europe/South America attitude -- something
I don't want to see happen.
I think being mindful that there are citizens in Nova Roma who live outside
of the USA is better then simply "taking it to another list." On a similar
note, I AM interested in what is going on around the world. Only so much
news is reported by the US media, and I am interested in politics, and
culture outside of the United States. I would welcome discussion of EU
politics (being mindful of course that we are here mainly because of our
interest in Rome), for example.
Valete;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/15/05, Marcus Iulius Perusianus <m_iulius@...> wrote:
>
> avete omnes,
>
> let the Praetor just add something here ;-) I have one idea why most
> of the people in the ML is silent: that is because some of you have
> exchanged this list for an internal american mailing list.
>
> Mind you that I am one who is for free speech in this Forum, even if
> Roma Antiqua should be the main topic, but, please (and this has
> nothing to do with my Praetorian duties or there's nothing against the
> law which was broken) understand that many people here simply are not
> interested in internal political, social or cultural deeds.
> There should be local mls for this, I know many provinciae have.
>
> Just a quick note :-)
>
> valete
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
> Praetor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

P. Memmius Albucius Praetor Perusiano omnibusque s.d.

You wrote, Perusiane :

> (..)I have one idea why most of the people in the ML is silent:
>that is because some of you have exchanged this list for an
>internal american mailing list.

I had the same thought, dear Perusiane. Most of our ML posts :
- seem to be interesting for one provincia ;
- do not generally concern Roma or Nova Roma.

This situation keeps some of our cives far from the ML, and makes
others waist time when, because of their public offices, they are
obliged to check regularly the List.

Why would not we use private mails, sodalitates forums or external
forums to speak of all these questions ? Yes yes... all these
possibilities do exist !

Vale ac valete omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius

Salvete:
One thing some people seem to miss is that the United States is composed of
Eight Provinces:
America Austroccidentalis
America Austrorientalis
America Boreoccidentalis
America Medioccidentalis Superior
California
Lacus Magni
Mediatlantica
Nova Britannia
I imagine each of these provinces have their own e-mail lists. However, the
Main List is the ONLY list were all of these provinces come together and
citizens of these provinces are allowed to come together and communicate. I
understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be interested in
what is going on in the United States but what should citizens in the United
States do? Not communicate? The Nova Roma list has always been a high
traffic list.
I AGREE that citizens of the United States should not make the assumption
that everyone "on this list" is of the United States, because we know that
is not true. When I refer to the United States I try to be very mindful of
not saying "we or us" when referring to the USA.
I'm not convinced that it is the best solution to tell people to "take to
your provincial lists." I don't think that is the answer.
Valete;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/15/05, Tribune Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> P. Memmius Albucius Praetor Perusiano omnibusque s.d.
>
> You wrote, Perusiane :
>
>
> > (..)I have one idea why most of the people in the ML is silent:
> >that is because some of you have exchanged this list for an
> >internal american mailing list.
>
>
> I had the same thought, dear Perusiane. Most of our ML posts :
> - seem to be interesting for one provincia ;
> - do not generally concern Roma or Nova Roma.
>
> This situation keeps some of our cives far from the ML, and makes
> others waist time when, because of their public offices, they are
> obliged to check regularly the List.
>
> Why would not we use private mails, sodalitates forums or external
> forums to speak of all these questions ? Yes yes... all these
> possibilities do exist !
>
> Vale ac valete omnes,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

I support this idea.

> C. Equitius and I talked briefly in Rome in the summer
> about the idea of having a specific e-mail list for
> U.S. citizens of Nova Roma.

Valete,



Sextus Apollonius Scipio

Propraetor Galliae




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

L.Flavia Lectrix M.Cassio Philippo spd

"quote"
Salve Cato,

Interestingly you brought up Kaiser, and it is quite a stretch to call his
domain an "Empire" of course there is also the Tzar. Are we to also assume
that they were also part of the Roman Empire just because they may have
believed they were? Otherwise why those titles? They obviously thought of
themselves as the inheritors of the Caesars, therefore of Rome itself. The
same can be said of Byzantium after the sixth or seventh century. This is
precisely why another name was devised for it. It was not any longer the
same nation, civilization or culture. In order to understand them they had
to be distinguished from each other. The Ethiopians believe they are the
ancestors of one of the lost tribes of Israel. They very well could be but
there is no way anyone could confuse the two distinctly different
civilizations.
"unquote""
As far as I understood the part of Cato´s post he didn´t claim that Kaiser Wilhelm I or Bismarck claimed to be the inheritor of the Roman Empire. He simply stated that the "Third Reich" was called thus, because the Nazis longed to resurrect Germany (at that time called "Deutsches Reich" -i.e. German Empire) to a state of equal grandeur as the two earlier "Reichs" possessed in the mind of the average citizen. And those were the "Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation" when a German king was awarded the Emperor´s crown by the pontifex maximus of the Roman Catholic Church and the "Deutsches Reich" founded by Bismarck and Wilhelm I. I´d have to look up the exact names and dates - and I will if you really insist - but that´s the gist of it. And although the first of these Reichs still had "Rome" in it this referred to the medieval Rome not Roma antiqua.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites,

If you'd be interested in subscribing to a Nova-Roma USA (NRUSA) mailing list,
or possibly a Nova-Roma North America (NRNorAm), please drop me a note at:
gawne (at) cesmail (dot) net. If there's sufficient interest I'll create the
mailing list.

Valete,

-- Marinus

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salve Flavia,

True enough. My point was simply that just because someone uses these Roman "titles" does not make them Roman. His point was that Byzantium was as Roman as the Rome of Augustus. My point is that is not so. It may have been true up through the beginning of the "dark" ages but it was certainly no longer true even during the times of the Crusades, even if they still used the same titles. Just the same as the rest of the nations since then that have used Roman titles - as in the Kaiser and the Tzars in modern times.

Byzantium was no more a Roman Empire than the British or French Empires were or for that matter what people are now pegging the USA with - "The New Roman Empire" why, just because it has a "Senate" ;-)

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Stefanie Beer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tenney Frank and the Fall of Rome


L.Flavia Lectrix M.Cassio Philippo spd

"quote"
Salve Cato,

Interestingly you brought up Kaiser, and it is quite a stretch to call his
domain an "Empire" of course there is also the Tzar. Are we to also assume
that they were also part of the Roman Empire just because they may have
believed they were? Otherwise why those titles? They obviously thought of
themselves as the inheritors of the Caesars, therefore of Rome itself. The
same can be said of Byzantium after the sixth or seventh century. This is
precisely why another name was devised for it. It was not any longer the
same nation, civilization or culture. In order to understand them they had
to be distinguished from each other. The Ethiopians believe they are the
ancestors of one of the lost tribes of Israel. They very well could be but
there is no way anyone could confuse the two distinctly different
civilizations.
"unquote""
As far as I understood the part of Cato´s post he didn´t claim that Kaiser Wilhelm I or Bismarck claimed to be the inheritor of the Roman Empire. He simply stated that the "Third Reich" was called thus, because the Nazis longed to resurrect Germany (at that time called "Deutsches Reich" -i.e. German Empire) to a state of equal grandeur as the two earlier "Reichs" possessed in the mind of the average citizen. And those were the "Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation" when a German king was awarded the Emperor´s crown by the pontifex maximus of the Roman Catholic Church and the "Deutsches Reich" founded by Bismarck and Wilhelm I. I´d have to look up the exact names and dates - and I will if you really insist - but that´s the gist of it. And although the first of these Reichs still had "Rome" in it this referred to the medieval Rome not Roma antiqua.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Caius Minucius Scaevola A. Apollonio Corde Omnibus SPD.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 04:40:07PM +0000, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
> C. Equitius and I talked briefly in Rome in the summer
> about the idea of having a specific e-mail list for
> U.S. citizens of Nova Roma. (There is already a
> similar list for Europe, though it is virtually dead
> because most European activity is coordinated through
> provincial lists or by private e-mail.) It has its
> advantages and its disadvantages. We don't want to
> create divisions within the population, and it would
> be a shame if such a move were to divert interesting
> discussions away from this forum. But on the other
> hand it would at least counteract the tendency of some
> U.S. citizens to treat this forum, which is meant to
> be for everyone, as a specifically American forum.

Herein lies the problem, amice: I don't think that it would, _unless_
the list rules expressly prohibited it - and I don't see that kind of
broad prohibition serving Nova Roma. However, it may be worth
considering adding hate speech to the list of things disallowed in this
forum; to my mind, the xenophobic statements repeatedly made here by
Marcus Flavius Fides qualify in full.

When people react to a statement of "Rome changed because barbarians
were granted citizenship" with "yeah and LIBERALS are destroying
AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by creating a new list. I
normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll admit that the racist
tone of these posts got under my skin today. To hear this coming from
someone who, supposedly, protects the public of one of America's
greatest cities - a city famous for its multicultural heritage - was no
less than revolting. The NYPD would label it "unprofessional conduct",
at the very least - and they would be dead right to do so.

I agree, the issues that started this are, at least in part, US-centric.
However, the xenophobia and the racism I've seen expressed in those
posts is wrong, vile, and inappropriate for this list no matter _what_
country they originate in, nor what group they focus on.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
A liar needs a good memory.
-- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"

Salve Marine,

Although I could see why some people may have such an interest in this NRUSA list, I think that if the reason for it is strictly for what has been posted lately on the ML it is unwarranted. If someone wants to make a modern analogy in a discussion to make their point more clearly, what's wrong with that? Some of the most interesting posts on these recent subjects have come from our brethren in Europe, Canada and Japan. If we were to have limited these discussions to the USA alone they wouldn't have been half as interesting to read and respond to. Even when the responses are sometimes tapped out violently on those keyboards ;-) I also know some members who read them voraciously but prefer to stay spectators rather than participants and that's OK too. Just because they are silent does not necessarily make them objectors. They are probably laughing a lot about all this bickering back and forth, that's all.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: CN.EQVIT.MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Marinus)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:57 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] NRUSA/NRNorAm mailing lists?


Salvete quirites,

If you'd be interested in subscribing to a Nova-Roma USA (NRUSA) mailing list,
or possibly a Nova-Roma North America (NRNorAm), please drop me a note at:
gawne (at) cesmail (dot) net. If there's sufficient interest I'll create the
mailing list.

Valete,

-- Marinus

CN.EQVIT.MARINVS


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve filius et Amice!

I certainly agree with You and hope that we don't such a list. We
need to keep Nova Roma international.

At 12.16 -0500 05-11-15, David Kling wrote:

>But I feel a list for all of the United States would be problematic
>becuase it would foster a USA vs. Europe/South America attitude -- something
>I don't want to see happen.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFBQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete omnes,

One thing I must state in defense of Flavius is the fact that he uses one of those hand held devices like the Blackberry or some such device limiting his posts to minimal statements. If he were to be at a real computer I think he would be a bit more erudite in his postings and he would certainly be more capable of putting his thoughts together in a way that would be better tied into the discussions. Cut him some slack.

Our Italian brethren Cristiano with his translating machine was certainly given the benefit of the doubt. His message could have been considered just as inflammatory but we all acknowledged his lack of being limited by his language skills in English and cut him a lot of slack. The same may be the case here but for different reasons. He just hasn't let everyone know that this is why, where as Cristiano did.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] the Fall of Rome.Has history taught us nothing?


Caius Minucius Scaevola A. Apollonio Corde Omnibus SPD.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 04:40:07PM +0000, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
> C. Equitius and I talked briefly in Rome in the summer
> about the idea of having a specific e-mail list for
> U.S. citizens of Nova Roma. (There is already a
> similar list for Europe, though it is virtually dead
> because most European activity is coordinated through
> provincial lists or by private e-mail.) It has its
> advantages and its disadvantages. We don't want to
> create divisions within the population, and it would
> be a shame if such a move were to divert interesting
> discussions away from this forum. But on the other
> hand it would at least counteract the tendency of some
> U.S. citizens to treat this forum, which is meant to
> be for everyone, as a specifically American forum.

Herein lies the problem, amice: I don't think that it would, _unless_
the list rules expressly prohibited it - and I don't see that kind of
broad prohibition serving Nova Roma. However, it may be worth
considering adding hate speech to the list of things disallowed in this
forum; to my mind, the xenophobic statements repeatedly made here by
Marcus Flavius Fides qualify in full.

When people react to a statement of "Rome changed because barbarians
were granted citizenship" with "yeah and LIBERALS are destroying
AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by creating a new list. I
normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll admit that the racist
tone of these posts got under my skin today. To hear this coming from
someone who, supposedly, protects the public of one of America's
greatest cities - a city famous for its multicultural heritage - was no
less than revolting. The NYPD would label it "unprofessional conduct",
at the very least - and they would be dead right to do so.

I agree, the issues that started this are, at least in part, US-centric.
However, the xenophobia and the racism I've seen expressed in those
posts is wrong, vile, and inappropriate for this list no matter _what_
country they originate in, nor what group they focus on.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
A liar needs a good memory.
-- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"


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Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 11/15/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I've managed to just ignore most of it. We have enough politics IN Nova
Roma, we don't need america's or europe's to go along with it.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus" <christer.edling@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Just a quick note


> Salve filius et Amice!
>
> I certainly agree with You and hope that we don't such a list. We
> need to keep Nova Roma international.
>
> At 12.16 -0500 05-11-15, David Kling wrote:
>>But I feel a list for all of the United States would be problematic
>>becuase it would foster a USA vs. Europe/South America attitude --
>>something
>>I don't want to see happen.
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Censor, Consularis et Senator
> Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
> Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Censoris CFBQ
> http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 11/15/2005 6:15:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nexus909@... writes:
(Hypatia? Don't get me started...) That's where we disagree. What you
call a Druidical movement, I call cultural vestiges and folk beliefs.
I think the examples you quote support my view more as you provide a
sermon to Christians who kept up some pagan practices (like augury)
rather than to Druids or even pagans.
As any historian will tell you, cultural vestiges and folk beliefs restart
movements when
enough people believe in them.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Back from dentist. Root canal - DONE! Teeth - shiny and sparkly!
Painkillers - working!

Cassius, you repeat the idea that although the Eastern Empire called
itself the Roman Empire, although it was referred to as the Roman
Empire by every single contemporaneous culture and nation, and
continued to be regarded as such for another 1000 years, it was not.

This is the crux of the disagreement.

I repeat that you do not have the right to decide, 600-1000 years
after the fact, what the Eastern Empire was; you simply cannot decide
that because it doesn't fit your idea of what the Roman Empire *should
have* been, it was not. That is *precisely* the transgression visited
upon the Eastern Empire by the philosophers of the "Enlightenment", a
group of intellectuals who, 300 years after the fall of the great City
of Constantinople, decided that it did not jibe with their idealized,
pre-concieved, romanticized vision of what the Roman Empire was ---
and so, with the scratch of a quill pen, created a new identity for it
out of whole cloth.

The romanitas of a Nicephorus Phocas or a Justinian was just as
solidly entrenched as that of a Scipio Africanus or a Iulius Caesar.

Valete bene,

Cato

Salve, Marcus Cassius Philippus; salvete, omnes.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:32:52PM -0500, Sensei Phil Perez wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> One thing I must state in defense of Flavius is the fact that he uses
> one of those hand held devices like the Blackberry or some such device
> limiting his posts to minimal statements. If he were to be at a real
> computer I think he would be a bit more erudite in his postings and he
> would certainly be more capable of putting his thoughts together in a
> way that would be better tied into the discussions. Cut him some
> slack.

I don't see that as any sort of a defense against his constant harping
on the evil effects of minorities in the US - especially on this list,
where it has no bearing on the main interest of the group. Brevity does
not incline to hate speech, any more than loquacity does.

I've seen Flavius' posts here since the day he has joined. Whether he
uses a Blackberry, a laptop, or a CPU-based toaster, his posts have been
consistently discriminatory, uninformative, lacking in historical
perspective, and almost always in violation of Netiquette. If I were to
post from, say, my phone, I'm quite confident that my posts would not
suddenly become filled with reference to America-hating foreigners in
New York.

I cut people a lot of slack for inability to speak precise English; I'm
the editor-in-chief of a large web publication, and many of our authors
are from outside the US. I cut _zero_ slack to those who express blind
hatred of others. That's a very large distinction.

> Our Italian brethren Cristiano with his translating machine was
> certainly given the benefit of the doubt. His message could have been
> considered just as inflammatory but we all acknowledged his lack of
> being limited by his language skills in English and cut him a lot of
> slack. The same may be the case here but for different reasons. He
> just hasn't let everyone know that this is why, where as Cristiano
> did.

"Cristiano" (I don't recall the full name he used in his post) is new to
the group, both to its purpose and its usages - as well as being hobbled
by his inability to express himself well in English. Marcus Flavius
Fides is neither new, nor ignorant of group purpose or protocol, and
speaks English every day. I would not be suprised to learn that the tone
of "Christiano"'s posts came from emulating what he saw here - yet
another damaging effect of that kind of "discussion".

I fail to see how one can be compared to the other.


Valete, omnes.
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dum inter homines sumus, colamus humanitatem.
As long as we are among humans, let us be humane.
-- Seneca, "De ira"

Racist?I get called names because of my last name in
this day & age.I sir am no racist.If youre offended by
me there are really problems here.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Caius Minucius Scaevola A. Apollonio Corde Omnibus

SPD.

>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 04:40:07PM +0000, A.

Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> > A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
> >
> > C. Equitius and I talked briefly in Rome in the

summer

> > about the idea of having a specific e-mail list

for

> > U.S. citizens of Nova Roma. (There is already a
> > similar list for Europe, though it is virtually

dead

> > because most European activity is coordinated

through

> > provincial lists or by private e-mail.) It has its
> > advantages and its disadvantages. We don't want to
> > create divisions within the population, and it

would

> > be a shame if such a move were to divert

interesting

> > discussions away from this forum. But on the other
> > hand it would at least counteract the tendency of

some

> > U.S. citizens to treat this forum, which is meant

to

> > be for everyone, as a specifically American forum.
>
> Herein lies the problem, amice: I don't think that

it would, _unless_

> the list rules expressly prohibited it - and I don't

see that kind of

> broad prohibition serving Nova Roma. However, it may

be worth

> considering adding hate speech to the list of things

disallowed in this

> forum; to my mind, the xenophobic statements

repeatedly made here by

> Marcus Flavius Fides qualify in full.
>
> When people react to a statement of "Rome changed

because barbarians

> were granted citizenship" with "yeah and LIBERALS

are destroying

> AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by

creating a new list. I

> normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll

admit that the racist

> tone of these posts got under my skin today. To hear

this coming from

> someone who, supposedly, protects the public of one

of America's

> greatest cities - a city famous for its

multicultural heritage - was no

> less than revolting. The NYPD would label it

"unprofessional conduct",

> at the very least - and they would be dead right to

do so.

>
> I agree, the issues that started this are, at least

in part, US-centric.

> However, the xenophobia and the racism I've seen

expressed in those

> posts is wrong, vile, and inappropriate for this

list no matter _what_

> country they originate in, nor what group they focus

on.

>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
> A liar needs a good memory.
> -- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

SALVETE !

David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote: I imagine each of these provinces have their own e-mail lists. However, the
Main List is the ONLY list were all of these provinces come together and
citizens of these provinces are allowed to come together and communicate. I
understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be interested in
what is going on in the United States>>>

Can you tell me from where that conclusion is coming ? Or what it means Dacia for you ?

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS



SPONSORED LINKS
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I make my posts using a cellphone. I do not inter-net
access & have to limit my posts to 160 words or less
which is why I dont bother w/ greetinqs.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> One thing I must state in defense of Flavius is the

fact that he uses one of those hand held devices like
the Blackberry or some such device limiting his posts
to minimal statements. If he were to be at a real
computer I think he would be a bit more erudite in his
postings and he would certainly be more capable of
putting his thoughts together in a way that would be
better tied into the discussions. Cut him some slack.

>
> Our Italian brethren Cristiano with his translating

machine was certainly given the benefit of the doubt.
His message could have been considered just as
inflammatory but we all acknowledged his lack of being
limited by his language skills in English and cut him
a lot of slack. The same may be the case here but for
different reasons. He just hasn't let everyone know
that this is why, where as Cristiano did.

>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Benjamin A. Okopnik
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] the Fall of Rome.Has

history taught us nothing?

>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola A. Apollonio Corde Omnibus

SPD.

>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 04:40:07PM +0000, A.

Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> > A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
> >
> > C. Equitius and I talked briefly in Rome in the

summer

> > about the idea of having a specific e-mail list

for

> > U.S. citizens of Nova Roma. (There is already a
> > similar list for Europe, though it is virtually

dead

> > because most European activity is coordinated

through

> > provincial lists or by private e-mail.) It has

its

> > advantages and its disadvantages. We don't want

to

> > create divisions within the population, and it

would

> > be a shame if such a move were to divert

interesting

> > discussions away from this forum. But on the

other

> > hand it would at least counteract the tendency

of some

> > U.S. citizens to treat this forum, which is

meant to

> > be for everyone, as a specifically American

forum.

>
> Herein lies the problem, amice: I don't think that

it would, _unless_

> the list rules expressly prohibited it - and I

don't see that kind of

> broad prohibition serving Nova Roma. However, it

may be worth

> considering adding hate speech to the list of

things disallowed in this

> forum; to my mind, the xenophobic statements

repeatedly made here by

> Marcus Flavius Fides qualify in full.
>
> When people react to a statement of "Rome changed

because barbarians

> were granted citizenship" with "yeah and LIBERALS

are destroying

> AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by

creating a new list. I

> normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll

admit that the racist

> tone of these posts got under my skin today. To

hear this coming from

> someone who, supposedly, protects the public of

one of America's

> greatest cities - a city famous for its

multicultural heritage - was no

> less than revolting. The NYPD would label it

"unprofessional conduct",

> at the very least - and they would be dead right

to do so.

>
> I agree, the issues that started this are, at

least in part, US-centric.

> However, the xenophobia and the racism I've seen

expressed in those

> posts is wrong, vile, and inappropriate for this

list no matter _what_

> country they originate in, nor what group they

focus on.

>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Mendacem memorem esse oportet.
> A liar needs a good memory.
> -- Quintilianus, "De institutione oratoria"
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an

email to:

> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

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>
>
> -----------------------------------------

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

I make my posts using a cellphone. I do not inter-net
access & have to limit my posts to 160 words or less
which is why I dont bother w/ greetinqs.

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

I dont hate anyone, youre tossing the words hate and
racist around I guess because they get a reaction,isnt
that what tabloids do? Quit it,please.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Salve, Marcus Cassius Philippus; salvete, omnes.
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 01:32:52PM -0500, Sensei

Phil Perez wrote:

> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > One thing I must state in defense of Flavius is

the fact that he uses

> > one of those hand held devices like the Blackberry

or some such device

> > limiting his posts to minimal statements. If he

were to be at a real

> > computer I think he would be a bit more erudite in

his postings and he

> > would certainly be more capable of putting his

thoughts together in a

> > way that would be better tied into the

discussions. Cut him some

> > slack.
>
> I don't see that as any sort of a defense against

his constant harping

> on the evil effects of minorities in the US -

especially on this list,

> where it has no bearing on the main interest of the

group. Brevity does

> not incline to hate speech, any more than loquacity

does.

>
> I've seen Flavius' posts here since the day he has

joined. Whether he

> uses a Blackberry, a laptop, or a CPU-based toaster,

his posts have been

> consistently discriminatory, uninformative, lacking

in historical

> perspective, and almost always in violation of

Netiquette. If I were to

> post from, say, my phone, I'm quite confident that

my posts would not

> suddenly become filled with reference to

America-hating foreigners in

> New York.
>
> I cut people a lot of slack for inability to speak

precise English; I'm

> the editor-in-chief of a large web publication, and

many of our authors

> are from outside the US. I cut _zero_ slack to those

who express blind

> hatred of others. That's a very large distinction.
>
> > Our Italian brethren Cristiano with his

translating machine was

> > certainly given the benefit of the doubt. His

message could have been

> > considered just as inflammatory but we all

acknowledged his lack of

> > being limited by his language skills in English

and cut him a lot of

> > slack. The same may be the case here but for

different reasons. He

> > just hasn't let everyone know that this is why,

where as Cristiano

> > did.
>
> "Cristiano" (I don't recall the full name he used in

his post) is new to

> the group, both to its purpose and its usages - as

well as being hobbled

> by his inability to express himself well in English.

Marcus Flavius

> Fides is neither new, nor ignorant of group purpose

or protocol, and

> speaks English every day. I would not be suprised to

learn that the tone

> of "Christiano"'s posts came from emulating what he

saw here - yet

> another damaging effect of that kind of

"discussion".

>
> I fail to see how one can be compared to the other.
>
>
> Valete, omnes.
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Dum inter homines sumus, colamus humanitatem.
> As long as we are among humans, let us be humane.
> -- Seneca, "De ira"

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

So as uninformed as Ive been labled, I was right in
the sense that the Byzantines would not even respond
to that title.Now,how did the world view them?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Back from dentist. Root canal - DONE! Teeth -

shiny and sparkly!

> Painkillers - working!
>
> Cassius, you repeat the idea that although the

Eastern Empire called

> itself the Roman Empire, although it was referred to

as the Roman

> Empire by every single contemporaneous culture and

nation, and

> continued to be regarded as such for another 1000

years, it was not.

>
> This is the crux of the disagreement.
>
> I repeat that you do not have the right to decide,

600-1000 years

> after the fact, what the Eastern Empire was; you

simply cannot decide

> that because it doesn't fit your idea of what the

Roman Empire *should

> have* been, it was not. That is *precisely* the

transgression visited

> upon the Eastern Empire by the philosophers of the

"Enlightenment", a

> group of intellectuals who, 300 years after the fall

of the great City

> of Constantinople, decided that it did not jibe with

their idealized,

> pre-concieved, romanticized vision of what the Roman

Empire was ---

> and so, with the scratch of a quill pen, created a

new identity for it

> out of whole cloth.
>
> The romanitas of a Nicephorus Phocas or a Justinian

was just as

> solidly entrenched as that of a Scipio Africanus or

a Iulius Caesar.

>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

I personally witnessed it on Flatbush & Atlantic Ave
in Brooklyn.Why is that so hard to believe?Plenty of
things happen each day in Gotham that go unreported.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Salve -
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 06:00:03AM -0800, raymond

fuentes wrote:

> > The one poster who reports this stuff lives in

Queens

> > where there is plenty of anti-Americanism, Im a

cop, I

> > see & hear it everyday.The Dancing On 911 HAPPENED
>
> OK. References, please? Newspapers reporting it? TV

news reports?

> Photos? Police reports, which would SURELY have been

filed? Police

> records of hundreds of officers being called in to

either a) haul away

> the bodies of the Arabs who would have been killed

by the non-Arabs

> around them or b) protect the Arabs from being

killed? Credible

> eye-witness reports, even, recorded ANYWHERE by any

credible news

> source?
>
> I await the flood of data impatiently. Surely, in

this great country of

> ours, where our shameless Liberal media, who will

cover *anything* to

> make a buck, there must be reams and mounds of

reports to choose from.

>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes.
> It is foolish to fear what you cannot avoid.
> -- Cicero, "De officiis"

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

Salvete, Marcus Flavius Fides et omnes.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:32:09AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:
> Racist?I get called names because of my last name in
> this day & age.I sir am no racist.If youre offended by
> me there are really problems here.

I'll quote the part of the post that you've responded to, just so we're
both talking about the same thing:

> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...> wrote:
> >
> > When people react to a statement of "Rome changed because barbarians
> > were granted citizenship" with "yeah and LIBERALS are destroying
> > AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by creating a new list. I
> > normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll admit that the racist
> > tone of these posts got under my skin today. To hear this coming from
> > someone who, supposedly, protects the public of one of America's
> > greatest cities - a city famous for its multicultural heritage - was no
> > less than revolting. The NYPD would label it "unprofessional conduct",
> > at the very least - and they would be dead right to do so.

And now, I'll quote several of your recent posts - all of which have the
tone of racism or xenophobia to which I've referred:

---------------------------------------------------------
#39269, "E. Pluribus Unum no longer- in Queens at least"
The problem as far as NYC is concerned is that are TOO
many races,cultures,lifestyles & its bad to be
American.When I was a kid it mattered to be
American...
---------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------
#39270, "The Tenney Frank Question"
Dont worry about China. Since our free trade debacle
Bejing is doing fine at our expense.
---------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------
#39283, "Re:Why M.F.Fides keeps comparing todays Western World W/ ROMA"
The similarities are eerie.The uncontrolled incursions
of peoples that cared not for Roma or her institutions
much less her defense was a definiate catalyst.
---------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------
#39288, "Tenney Frank and the Fall of Rome"
The American school system does not help.Kids are
taught that Western civilization is inferior to
wherever it is the kids come from.They thumb noses
more so.
---------------------------------------------------------

I could go on. And on, and on.

Sir, the fact that you get called names is not in any way, shape, or
form an excuse to practice that same behavior on others; passing it on
is not a rational response. You can stand up and counter those insults,
you can refuse to accept them, you can realize that those who produce
them as mere bullies who live in terror of someone being better than
them... but passing them on, continuing that culture of bullying is not
acceptable behavior, no matter what your last name may be.

I have not called you a racist; I have said that your statements have a
racist and xenophobic tone. The former would have implied that you are
incorrigible; the second, to me, implies that you can change your
statements, and thus, your presentation. The decision is yours.


Vale, et valete -
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for example in physics."

To clarify my question- When the BYZANTINES showed up
on a battlefield, did the enemy forces say The damned
Romans are here! What did the world call them?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<praefectus2324@...> wrote:

> So as uninformed as Ive been labled, I was right in
> the sense that the Byzantines would not even respond
> to that title.Now,how did the world view them?
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@...>
> wrote:
> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> >
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
> > Back from dentist. Root canal - DONE! Teeth -
> shiny and sparkly!
> > Painkillers - working!
> >
> > Cassius, you repeat the idea that although the
> Eastern Empire called
> > itself the Roman Empire, although it was referred

to

> as the Roman
> > Empire by every single contemporaneous culture and
> nation, and
> > continued to be regarded as such for another 1000
> years, it was not.
> >
> > This is the crux of the disagreement.
> >
> > I repeat that you do not have the right to decide,
> 600-1000 years
> > after the fact, what the Eastern Empire was; you
> simply cannot decide
> > that because it doesn't fit your idea of what the
> Roman Empire *should
> > have* been, it was not. That is *precisely* the
> transgression visited
> > upon the Eastern Empire by the philosophers of the
> "Enlightenment", a
> > group of intellectuals who, 300 years after the

fall

> of the great City
> > of Constantinople, decided that it did not jibe

with

> their idealized,
> > pre-concieved, romanticized vision of what the

Roman

> Empire was ---
> > and so, with the scratch of a quill pen, created a
> new identity for it
> > out of whole cloth.
> >
> > The romanitas of a Nicephorus Phocas or a

Justinian

> was just as
> > solidly entrenched as that of a Scipio Africanus

or

> a Iulius Caesar.
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve


This article about the battle of Manzikert says that,
in 1071 AD, not only the Byzantines called themselves
Romans, but their opponents too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert


Vale
M.Arminius

--- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
escreveu:

> To clarify my question- When the BYZANTINES showed
> up
> on a battlefield, did the enemy forces say The
> damned
> Romans are here! What did the world call them?

_______________________________________________________
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I dont hate anyone.What I am trying to point out is
that the unified & diverse city I grew up in and
protect is no longer as unified as it should be.Im
sad.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Salvete, Marcus Flavius Fides et omnes.
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 11:32:09AM -0800, raymond

fuentes wrote:

> > Racist?I get called names because of my last name

in

> > this day & age.I sir am no racist.If youre

offended by

> > me there are really problems here.
>
> I'll quote the part of the post that you've

responded to, just so we're

> both talking about the same thing:
>
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

<ben@...> wrote:

> > >
> > > When people react to a statement of "Rome

changed because barbarians

> > > were granted citizenship" with "yeah and

LIBERALS are destroying

> > > AMERICA!!!", you're not going to divert them by

creating a new list. I

> > > normally avoid responding to such trolling; I'll

admit that the racist

> > > tone of these posts got under my skin today. To

hear this coming from

> > > someone who, supposedly, protects the public of

one of America's

> > > greatest cities - a city famous for its

multicultural heritage - was no

> > > less than revolting. The NYPD would label it

"unprofessional conduct",

> > > at the very least - and they would be dead right

to do so.

>
> And now, I'll quote several of your recent posts -

all of which have the

> tone of racism or xenophobia to which I've referred:
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------

> #39269, "E. Pluribus Unum no longer- in Queens at

least"

> The problem as far as NYC is concerned is that are

TOO

> many races,cultures,lifestyles & its bad to be
> American.When I was a kid it mattered to be
> American...
>

---------------------------------------------------------

>
>

---------------------------------------------------------

> #39270, "The Tenney Frank Question"
> Dont worry about China. Since our free trade debacle
> Bejing is doing fine at our expense.
>

---------------------------------------------------------

>
>

---------------------------------------------------------

> #39283, "Re:Why M.F.Fides keeps comparing todays

Western World W/ ROMA"

> The similarities are eerie.The uncontrolled

incursions

> of peoples that cared not for Roma or her

institutions

> much less her defense was a definiate catalyst.
>

---------------------------------------------------------

>
>

---------------------------------------------------------

> #39288, "Tenney Frank and the Fall of Rome"
> The American school system does not help.Kids are
> taught that Western civilization is inferior to
> wherever it is the kids come from.They thumb noses
> more so.
>

---------------------------------------------------------

>
> I could go on. And on, and on.
>
> Sir, the fact that you get called names is not in

any way, shape, or

> form an excuse to practice that same behavior on

others; passing it on

> is not a rational response. You can stand up and

counter those insults,

> you can refuse to accept them, you can realize that

those who produce

> them as mere bullies who live in terror of someone

being better than

> them... but passing them on, continuing that culture

of bullying is not

> acceptable behavior, no matter what your last name

may be.

>
> I have not called you a racist; I have said that

your statements have a

> racist and xenophobic tone. The former would have

implied that you are

> incorrigible; the second, to me, implies that you

can change your

> statements, and thus, your presentation. The

decision is yours.

>
>
> Vale, et valete -
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
> Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
> -- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for

example in physics."


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

>

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
omnibus S.P.D.

OSD C. Equitius Cato

>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> The expression "Deus le/lo vult!" was used by Crusaders in the 11th
> and 12th centuries A.D. as a battle cry --- "God wills it!" --- in the
> assault on the Holy Land to recover the areas sacred to Christians,
> primarily Jerusalem and the Holy Sepulchre.
>
> ATS: I seem to have remembered something like this, and therefore rather
> suspected that Io could not possibly have been the object of the phrase
> supplied by M. Flavius Fides, nor could the interjection io be correct,
> especially in light of the translation he supplied. This isn¹t quite Latin by
> my definition; it¹s more like medieval French (or whatever; le Dieu le veut,
> in modern French, if I¹m not mistaken), which is why I suggested that the
> copying may be inaccurate, and that a pronominal object was wanted.
>
> Another catchy one was "HEP! HEP!", which stood for "Hierosolyma est
> Perdita!" --- "Jerusalem is lost!" --- and was generally used when
> slaughtering Jews and/or Moslems in the cities and towns between
> France and Palestine. Even as late as the 19th century A.D.,
> antisemitic rioters in Europe often shouted "Hep! Hep!" while on the
> prowl for Jews. Mob harrassment of Jews in Hamburg, Frankfurt, and
> other German cities in 1819, in fact, became known as the "Hep! Hep!"
> Riots.
>
> see: http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=80
>
> From this acronym many scholars believe we get the current "hip hip
> hooray".
>
> ATS: And maybe hep cats?
>
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> Scholastica
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE OMNES!

As a member of Nova roma organisation i have subscribed to the
official maling list and i read all the messages with equal interest.
what i did notice and what kept me away from discussions was the
fact that all the issues were discussed/still are at the level of
small groups which do not take into consideration other opinions.
another thing that i have learned from here is that one is encouraged to remain
at a theoretical level.nobody encouraged me to actually go out there and perform a ritual.
the Roman civilisation came into direct contact with this part of the world and if not
here then where else one could experience a practical reenactment?
and who says that the Dacians are not interested in what is happening in the USA.i would
have asked for details concerning the rituals held there.the answer would have been invariably the same : go and read some books on the subject.
i quote: "I
understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be interested in
what is going on in the United States but what should citizens in the United
States do? Not communicate? "C. Fabius Butaeo Modianus
why the issue of this communication problem between americans?and why are we,the Dacians ,mentioned?i can perfectly understand what you write and ,most important of all, what you really mean.sincerely, i rather doubt that you could assess the real roman experiences which do happen here.
Marcus Aurelius said it nicer than I did: "Because a thing seems difficult for you,do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish."

vale optime,
Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege

iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
SALVETE !

David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote: I imagine each of these provinces have their own e-mail lists. However, the
Main List is the ONLY list were all of these provinces come together and
citizens of these provinces are allowed to come together and communicate. I
understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be interested in
what is going on in the United States>>>

Can you tell me from where that conclusion is coming ? Or what it means Dacia for you ?

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS



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Iulia Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege
Provincial Sacerdos
Legatus Internis Rebus Provincia Dacia.



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All the way in 1071? Thats amazing.Why arent there any
movies about this part of Roman history?Does anyone
know of any? Thanks for the link.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <marminius@...>
wrote:

> Salve
>
>
> This article about the battle of Manzikert says

that,

> in 1071 AD, not only the Byzantines called

themselves

> Romans, but their opponents too.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert
>
>
> Vale
> M.Arminius
>
> --- raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...>
> escreveu:
> > To clarify my question- When the BYZANTINES showed
> > up
> > on a battlefield, did the enemy forces say The
> > damned
> > Romans are here! What did the world call them?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________________

> Yahoo! Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis.
> Instale o discador agora!
> http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salvete, omnes!

I love New York City. I am not a citizen of the U.S. NYC is a magic
place, and one of the main ingredients of that magic, is its diversity.
Many peoples, cultures, languages, religions, visions of the universe,
live --mainly peacefully-- in the Big Apple. When somebody complains
because in NYC there "are too many races, cultures, lifestyles & its bad
to be American", I find that person to be a racist. He doesn't like
precisely what millions of persons like me, find marvelous about that
mangnificent city...

In this sense, NYC has a true Roman spirit.

Valete,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR

--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete;
I have nothing whatsoever against Dacia, or modern day Romania. In my post
I mentioned: "I understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be
interested in what is going on in the United States but what should citizens
in the United States do? Not communicate? The Nova Roma list has always been
a high traffic list."
Notice that I mentioned "for example," I could have used ANY non-USA
province in Nova Roma to illustrate my point. I used Dacia for my example
because it was easily recalled as the correct name/spelling of a province,
and I didn't want to go to the Nova Roma website and look up the correct
spelling of another province when I could easily recall the name of province
Dacia.
Also notice that I posted "might not be interested," this also presupposed
that they "might be interested." I don't speak for other provinces, but it
is safe to make the assumption that if citizens in Italy, Mexico, and other
parts of the world are not interested in US politics (et al), then it is
safe -- I believe -- to make the assumption that there MIGHT be citizens in
other provinces such as Dacia who are also not interested in US politics.
I hope this explanation is sufficient to the citizens of Dacia, that I
indeed have nothing against your fine province. I simply chose your province
as an example to my point. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Valete;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/15/05, Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege <cytheris_aege@...> wrote:
>
> SALVETE OMNES!
>
> As a member of Nova roma organisation i have subscribed to the
> official maling list and i read all the messages with equal interest.
> what i did notice and what kept me away from discussions was the
> fact that all the issues were discussed/still are at the level of
> small groups which do not take into consideration other opinions.
> another thing that i have learned from here is that one is encouraged to
> remain
> at a theoretical level.nobody encouraged me to actually go out there and
> perform a ritual.
> the Roman civilisation came into direct contact with this part of the
> world and if not
> here then where else one could experience a practical reenactment?
> and who says that the Dacians are not interested in what is happening in
> the USA.i would
> have asked for details concerning the rituals held there.the answer would
> have been invariably the same : go and read some books on the subject.
> i quote: "I
> understand that citizens of Dacia, for example, might not be interested in
> what is going on in the United States but what should citizens in the
> United
> States do? Not communicate? "C. Fabius Butaeo Modianus
> why the issue of this communication problem between americans?and why are
> we,the Dacians ,mentioned?i can perfectly understand what you write and
> ,most important of all, what you really mean.sincerely, i rather doubt
> that you could assess the real roman experiences which do happen here.
> Marcus Aurelius said it nicer than I did: "Because a thing seems difficult
> for you,do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish."
>
> vale optime,
> Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

>Congratulations to Tita Artoria Marcella for her >victory,

My thanks to you, D. Constantinus Fuscus, for your hard work on the quiz. The questions were indeed difficult, but in answering them I have learned a great deal.

Vale,
T. Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Sabine,

Congratulations, Artoria Marcella ! A nice job. And it wasn't easy,
I know that very well !

Thank you, Sabinus. You were a worthy opponent! It wasn't easy, but it was very educational.

Vale,
T. Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

A. Tullia Scholastica Praetori M. Iulio Perusiano quiritibus, sociis,
peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.

> avete omnes,
>
> let the Praetor just add something here ;-) I have one idea why most
> of the people in the ML is silent: that is because some of you have
> exchanged this list for an internal american mailing list.
>
> Mind you that I am one who is for free speech in this Forum, even if
> Roma Antiqua should be the main topic, but, please (and this has
> nothing to do with my Praetorian duties or there's nothing against the
> law which was broken) understand that many people here simply are not
> interested in internal political, social or cultural deeds.
> There should be local mls for this, I know many provinciae have.
>
> ATS: I¹m sure that this works very well where one country=one prouincia,
> but that is not the case here in North America. There are two prouinciae in
> Canada, and (I believe) seven in the U.S. I am on three provincial mailing
> lists‹mine and the two adjacent, reasonable driving-distance ones. There is
> little mail traffic on any, and none on one of them since I joined it.
>
> Realistically, it should be of some interest to the rest of the world that
> certain attitudes, cultural practices, etc., are taught in a rather large U.S.
> state, or in the country as a whole, since this will eventually affect many
> others. Moreover, the politics of our macro countries (especially the larger
> and more developed ones) also affect others, and are of considerable interest
> to certain scholars outside of the country in question. Many of us rely on
> the media for our information about events in other countries; I for one think
> it is beneficial to hear about these matters from ordinary people, especially
> educated ones, living in other lands, who share their information with those
> who share their interest in ancient Rome.
>
> Yes, it might be nice to have an all U.S., or a north American, mailing
> list...but I don¹t see one in the works.
>
> Just a quick note :-)
>
> valete
> M IVL PERVSIANVS
> Praetor
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>

A. Tullia Scholastica

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Listen,Bush is no walk in the park but do we really
>> > want the NERONIAN Clintons back in the White House?
>> > Slick WILLIE may have Europe duped but NO WAY,not
>> > again!
>> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> > <senseiphil@n...> wrote:
>>> > > Salve,
>>> > >
>>> > > *Ahem* God forbid! We cannot trust one person to
>> > come along and solve it. Ronald Reagan was one of a
>> > kind and did hold it together for a while. Caesar was
>> > also one of a kind and managed to hold it together for
>> > a while. Both men were despised by the elites of their
>> > nation. One was assassinated, the other was almost
>> > assassinated. Caesar eliminated the Gallic Menace,
>> > Reagan eliminated the Soviet Menace. The death of
>> > Caesar set in motion a whirlwind that ended in
>> > Autocratic rule by Octavian. The end of the Reagan
>> > administration has started a whirlwind as well. It is
>> > the closest to a civil war we could have in the USA
>> > without actually coming to blows. The last several
>> > elections prove my point as well as the attacks by the
>> > "elites" on the Bush Administration. The comparison
>> > could also be made between the Islamic Terrorist
>> > threat and the Jewish Revolt in the first century. The
>> > comparisons are weird.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vires et honos,
>>> > > Marcus Cassius Philippus
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: Gaius Licinius Crassus
>>> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:33 AM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tenney Frank and the Fall
>> > of Rome
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve,
>>> > >
>>> > > Unfortunately, at times I believe the
>> > Balkanization of the US has
>>> > > already begun! With our current governmental
>> > system it seems unlikely
>>> > > that a real leader will be elected anytime soon;
>> > we seem to be *ahem*
>>> > > lacking in that department lately.
>>> > >
>>> > > The REAL question is...WWRD? What Would Rome Do?
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > >
>>> > > G Licinius Crassus
>>> > >
>>> > > raymond fuentes wrote:
>>> > >
>>>> > > > When you live in a country that is a patchwork
>> > of
>>>> > > > people & ideals without a COMMON ground thats
>> > not a
>>>> > > > nation,its a way station until something better
>> > comes
>>>> > > > up
>>>> > > > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>>> > > > <glcrassus@b...> wrote:
>>>>> > > > > Salve omnes,
>>>>> > > > >
>>>>> > > > > True, this seems to be happening- but (NOTE:
>> > PLAYING
>>>> > > > THE DEVIL'S
>>>>> > > > > ADVOCATE) what is the criteria for judging one
>>>> > > > civilization against
>>>>> > > > > another? Surely everyone recognizes ancient
>> > Rome as
>>>> > > > the greatest single
>>>>> > > > > civilization in history- but there are also
>> > the
>>>> > > > Chinese civilization,
>>>>> > > > > the rise of Islamic nations, the earlier
>> > Hellenic
>>>> > > > civilization, etc.
>>>>> > > > > Just as we can't judge ancient Rome by
>> > modern-day
>>>> > > > standards, we can't
>>>>> > > > > presuppose Western civilization to be any
>> > better
>>>> > > > than any other present
>>>>> > > > > civilization- it's simply comparing apples to
>>>> > > > oranges. In my opinion,
>>>>> > > > > civilizations aren't inherently any 'better'
>> > than
>>>> > > > others- just different.
>>>>> > > > >
>>>>> > > > > One may say, of course, "Muslim nations demean
>> > their
>>>> > > > women" or "The
>>>>> > > > > Chinese murder their own children"...I don't
>> > agree
>>>> > > > with either practice
>>>>> > > > > at all, BUT taken in the context of that
>> > particular
>>>> > > > society's situation
>>>>> > > > > and needs those may be perfectly acceptable
>>>> > > > behaviors. It doesn't matter
>>>>> > > > > if WE like it or not- it's their ball of wax,
>> > not
>>>> > > > ours. Who is to say
>>>>> > > > > that the Masai of Africa are inferior because
>> > they
>>>> > > > don't have big cities
>>>>> > > > > or scientific geniuses among them? They have a
>>>> > > > perfectly workable system
>>>>> > > > > that has served them quite well for centuries-
>>>> > > > without resorting to wars
>>>>> > > > > of conquest or economic blackmail- at a time
>> > when
>>>> > > > many of our own
>>>>> > > > > Western nations are tearing themselves apart
>> > from
>>>> > > > within.
>>>>> > > > >
>>>>> > > > > That being said, however, I am proud to be of
>>>> > > > Germanic descent- the West
>>>>> > > > > has it's problems, but every civilization goes
>>>> > > > through change over time.
>> > === Message Truncated ===
>> >
>> >
>> > S P Q R
>> >
>> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>> >
>> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
>> > Roman Citizen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________
>> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Welcome to the chariot races of Ludi Plebeii. We have here today
almost full tracks and most certainly an event full of thrill and
emotion! Even while there is information coming from Provincia Thule
that first serious late Autumn storm has hit it’s area, the weather
in circus couldn’t be more warm... no it’s flaming hot when see how
the first chariots are starting to line up to the grid... LET THE
RACE BEGIN!

QUARTERS

1st race

For the first race starting grid is arranged as following:

Owner: Gn. Equitius Marinus
Driver: Petronius Gnipho
Chariot: Vita Brevis
Factio: Albata

Owner: Maxima Valeria Messallina
Driver: Maximus
Chariot: Windchaser
Factio: Veneta

Owner: Caius Arminius Reccanellus
Driver: Judah Ben-Hur
Chariot: Ultio mea est
Factio: Russata

Owner: Julilla Sempronia Magna
Driver: Crescens
Chariot: Delecta Mea
Factio: Praesina


In the special section of rows of seats we can see the owners of the
chariots, they seem to be even more excited than the drivers who all
are terribly concentrated to do their job. But wait a second, it
seems that Caius Arminius Reccanellus isn’t that much exited, he is
just sitting there looking very satisfied... what nerves must he have
to be so calm, or perhaps his purse is heavy enough that he doesn’t
worry about the race results?

Now, there they are readying themselves, the crowd cheers and hardly
anyone is sitting still, people are ready, drivers are ready, horses
are ready and Tribune Saturninus is ready to give a signal for start,
he raises his hand, it’s only matter of seconds and we’ll see the
start...

Hey wait, what is happening? There is some commotion in the pits and
angry shouting requiring the race to be stopped before it even has
begun! Tribune Saturninus looks into the direction and waves the
Veneta crew to come closer and signals for silence. The spectators
wouldn’t even need to be asked to be silent, everone is wondering
what is happening now.

Veneta crew comes to the starting grid and presents evidence that
driver Judah Ben-Hur has tried to sabotage Windchaser by loosening
some bolts in it. The Windchaser is examined and this is noted to be
the case, evidently Judah Ben-Hur had committed the dirty action but
hadn’t noticed stable boy of Veneta who had been secretly courting
with a slave girl in the stables!

Ultio Mea Est and Judah Ben-Hur are disqualified and brought disgrace
for their owner... now where is Caius Arminius? Has anyone seen him?

But who cares, everything is now ready for the race itself! Delectea
Mea takes the lead in the first lap and GREENs are cheering wildly,
will this be another triumph for Delecta Mea? Vita Brevis got also a
good start and is slowly but surely catching up Delecta Mea in the
corners. Windchaser is third maybe its driver is not yet got his act
together after dramatic events.

The race is very even in the middle laps of the race and Vita Brevis
is giving a good fight for Delecta Mea. However when these two are
compeating for the first place the Windchaser loyally to its name
chases them and is catching up everytime Delecta Mea and Vita Brevis
are riding alongside each other.

When coming the last lap Vita Brevis finally overtakes Delecta Mea
with beautiful horsemanship just after the corner. However now
Windchaser really puts the last bits of strenght into the game and
when coming to the final straight first bypasses Delecta Mea and then
is riding side by side with Vita Brevis. Now the struggles against
Delecta Mea are paying their toll for Vita Brevis because as mighty
it’s horses are they still are tired while Windchasers horses are
almost literally flying and put last desperate effort to take the
lead. And so Windchaser takes the lead just before the finishline and
is the winner! Vita Brevis comes second and Delecta Mea comes in
third. What a start for the races!

1st Windchaser
2nd Vita Brevis
3rd Delecta Mea
DISQUALIFIED Ultio mea est for trying dirty action!


2nd race

Owner: Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
Driver: Gustavus Barbarus
Chariot: Proeliator
Factio: Russata

Owner: Quintus Servilius Priscus
Driver: Trophimus
Chariot: The Sunburst
Factio: Praesina

Owner: Diana Octavia Aventina
Driver: Latina Harmonia
Chariot: The Love Chariot
Factio: Albata

For the second race there is only three chariots, but they all are
strong and mighty, well maybe except The Love Chariot that could be
described as... eh... pink. Pink or not, here comes the start signal
for the race!

After some time we see Proeliator on the track again and it seems
that it has huge horses from the coldest and darkest corner of
Provincia Thule, and what a start it has! After the first lap
Proeliator leads by lenght of several chariots and as second comes
The Sunburst. It seems that Latina Harmonia has taken a slow start
and is waving to the audience and sending flying kisses at them.

In the middle laps of the race the huge horses of Proeliator are
going on like train, one wonders what do beasts like that eat (and
how much they must eat!). The Love Chariot has managed to get right
behind The Sunburst and has obviously taken a more serious attitude
towards the race. Now they are riding side by side along the back
straight and Latina Harmonia is, yes she is giving flirtatious looks
towards Trophimus, and poor Trophimus is concentrating only to the
long blond hair waving in the wind and those eyes and lips.... ehem
sorry, in short he is not concentrating to something else than to the
fact that at the end of straight there is a turn, and that turn is
closing in at very rapid speed. Then before the turn Latina Harmonia
just sends a flying kiss for Trophimus and turns at the last possible
moment, and poor Sunburst is hitting the stone wall with horrible
speed. When the medics carry Trophimus away, what a luck the man has
by the way, he is heard muttering something about long blond hair
waving in the wind and about the eyes and lips... ehem sorry, about
something else than chariot race!

In the final laps it seems that huge heavy horses of Proeliator are
finally giving up in strenght and The Love Chariot is closing the gap
rapidly. In the very final lap the chariots are running side by side
but it seems that Proeliator manages to keep up higher speed, but
then, what happens?! Latina Harmonia gets out a bunch of roses and
throws them for Gustavus Barbarus, what effect could that possibly
have? I mean to throw a good sized stone against competitor seems
rather rational thing to do, but roses?! Then we all can see how
clever move that was: Gustavus Barbarus is from Regio Suecica and
everyone knows the gentlemanly ideals of Swedish education...
Gustavus Barbarus has to stop to pick up the roses from lady, and so
The Love Chariot passes the finish line first and Proeliator as
second! Strange race indeed!

1st The Love Chariot
2nd Proeliator
3rd ACCIDENT: The Sunburst


3rd race

Owner: Iulius Sabinus
Driver Iulius Sabinus Crassus
Chariot: Aprilis
Factio: Rusata.

Owner: Lucius Servilius Primus
Driver: Ioannes Fulmen
Chariot: Velocitas Plaustrum
Factio: Praesina

Owner: Tita Artoria Marcella
Driver: Hurrius Maximus
Chariot: Windsong
Factio: Russata

Owner: Caius Curius Saturninus
Driver: Euthymus
Chariot: Inexpugnabilis IV
Factio: Praesina

For the third race of today we have again full track, however there
are two GREENs and two REDs. The race starts! Velocitas Plaustrum
takes the lead and is followed by Aprilis, Inexpugnabilis IV and
Hurrius Maximus. There has been word going about in the pit lane that
Hurrius Maximus has somekind of special reinforced axels and wheels,
maybe they are too much reinforced?

In the middle laps of the race Hurrius Maximus however starts to
become worthy of its name and is compeating for the lead furiously
slashing the horses to go even faster. Now it’s compeating against
Aprilis in the corner, at next moment against Velocitas Plaustrum. Oh
my, it seems that Velocitas Plaustrum makes a mistake and the chariot
swirls wildly and hits Hurrius Maximus, luckily now it seems, Hurrius
Maximus has the reinforced wheels, as otherwise they surely would be
in bits on the track. Velocitas Plaustrum seems to suffering some
sort of damage and has to give up for Aprilis and Inexpugnabilis IV.

In the final laps of the race Aprilis and Inexpugnabilis are
compeating of the first place evenly, at some point other takes the
lead and at some point the other. The heavy wheels of Hurrius Maximus
are taking their toll and despite heroic battle against now furious
Velocitas Plaustrum who lost his lead in such dramatic way, the
Hurrius Maximus doesn’t have enough speed to compeate for the third
place.

Aprilis wins and Inexpugnabilis IV comes as second, then Velocitas
Plaustrum and as last Hurrius Maximus.

1st Aprilis
2nd Inexpugnabilis IV
3rd Velocitas Plaustrum
4th Hurrius Maximus


4th race

Owner: Marca Hortensia Maior
Driver: Herodias
Chariot: Stella Iudaeae
Factio: Praesina

Owner: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Driver: Enea Columba Silvestris
Chariot: Venus Genitrix
Factio: Russata

Owner: G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana
Driver: Spandex the Vandal
Chariot: Velociraptor
Factio: G R E E N

For the last race of today we have three chariots, two GREENs and one
RED. It is no secret that Spandex the Vandal has trained hard and
found out all sorts of neat little things to upgrade his chariot
Velociraptor. However he will not get anything for free, victory the
least when he is racing against two astronomically famous chariots
that are known to race at supernatural speed: Stella Iudaeae and
Venus Genitrix.

The race begins! Stella Iudaeae takes the lead followed by Venus
Genitrix, it doesn’t look good for Velociraptor which got a bad start
when Spendex was too confused with all the extra equipment he seems
to have in his chariot to have a good start.

Stella Iudaeae still leads when coming to the middle laps of the
race, it seems that Herodias has got her horses trained well. However
also Spandex has trained a lot and it could be described as a strong
battle-hardened team. It seems that Spandex’ tactic is to go steadily
and not to make number out of himself, and he manages to keep the
distance comfortable and even in this way control the race against
Venus Genitrix.

In the last laps it seems that the pace of Stella Iudaeae is dying
out somewhat and both Venus Genitrix and Velociraptor are closing in.
Venus Genitrix makes a bold move to overtake Stella Iudaeae but does
this right after the curve. Now Velociraptor shows how dangerous it
can be and Spandex shouts magic command for his horses to make
miraculous exiting of the curve and we have all three chariots riding
alongside each other! There’s going to be very little room in the end
of straight!

To amazement of all but those who have been following rumors lately,
Velociraptor overtakes both Venus Genitrix and Stella Iudaeae. Now
the last lap is about to begin and Velociraptor is surely not going
to give away the lead it has. Venus Genitrix manages to bypass Stella
Iudaeae who perhaps suffers from amazement of seeing the overtaking
of Velociraptor. The race has ended and Velociraptor is the winner
with Venus Genitrix as second and Stella Iudaeae as third.

1st Velociraptor
2nd Venus Genitrix
3rd Stella Iudaeae


CONCLUSION OF THE FIRST DAY
For the Semi-Finals are qualified two best chariots from each of
todays race. So following chariots continue to there:

Velociraptor
Venus Genitrix
Aprilis
Inexpugnabilis IV
The Love Chariot
Proeliator
Windchaser
Vita Brevis

Good luck for all and see you tomorrow!


Valete,


Caius Curius Saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

To Byzantine historians Manzikert will always be referred to as "that
terrible day."
It ranks as high the disaster that leveled the Eastern Army at Hadrianople

Wikipeda says that the Roman army was unaffected yet that simply was not
true. The battle was culmination of Constantine X hatred of the Army forcing it's
decline.

I'm not going to bore you with Tagmatic and Thematic differences in the army,
consider the first the regular army, the second the militia in a simplified
explanation.
Nevertheless, the results were very tangible. From my monograph on the
battle and its
results:

"But the disaffected relative of the late Constantine X, Andronikos, spread
the rumor in the second line that Romanus had been killed and the Turkish
numbers were greater than theirs. The Armenians on the wing fled first, so that
all got away, the Duxs of the Frontiers followed, if the emperor had been
defeated, their own forces must be preserved, since their people depended on them
for defense.
The Franks (Normans) may have thought about saving the emperor and those
fighting around him, but they followed Andronikos from the field. Only the Utes,
Patzinaks and the Companions of the second line rode to the rescue. They were
too late.
The leading Tagmas had broken, the emperor was captured by the Sultan. Some
allied Turks defected to the Seljuks, the rest of the army joined Andronikos
in the retreat. In two hours of hard fighting the eastern Tagmata had been
destroyed. The fact it took that long to break an enemy formation struck in the
rear, tells what high morale the Tagmas must have had. Only dusk saved the
remnants of the disorganized and panic stricken army.

It is easy to curse the emperor for committing to an attack with his large
untrained army. However with hindsight it is always easy. Romulus had no idea
that his army would fall apart conducting a simple change of face and that the
Turks could reform and counter attack so swiftly.
Nor did he realize his trusted second line commander would not support him
as the tactical manuals dictated. In his favor he knew he could never assemble
such a large army again. He would not have the fiances. Better to fight now,
and get it over with.
The results of this great defeat were swift. While the Roman high command
reformed the remnants of the eastern army, the sultan released Romanus in return
for a treaty ceding the border zone from Antioch to Manzikert. But Romanus’s
enemies, the supporters of Constantine X, had already seized power in
Constantinople during his absence. Romulus rallied some of his old Tagmatic army, but
was up against the stronger western Thematic army, which defeated him,
captured him and had him put to death.
Romanus’s loyal general Philaretus Brachamius managed to hold the themes
around Melitenel, with of the remains of the eastern Tagmata, and the Anatolikan
themes much reduced in size after Manzikert. Other rebels held the frontier
from Taron to Edessa.
The new government of Constantine X’s son Michael VII held Antioch at the
southern end of the frontier and the city of Theodosiopolis at the northern end.
But between fortresses of Taron and Aeodosiopolis there was a huge breach, and
no one could stop the Turks from rushing into Anatolia in large numbers.
The Turks enveloped the disused fortresses and the half-trained thematic
troops were dispersed just as Romulus had predicted. This correctly proved the
emperor’s fears. He had been right in not retreating. Small consolation to his
loyal supporters now, however.
Separated from the rest of the empire, Philaretus used the remains of the
eastern Tagmata to secure a fief of his own stretching western Armenia to
Cilicia.
Meanwhile despite more debasement of the treasury, Michael’s government did
not have enough money to pay its mercenaries, who now repeatedly mutinied
stalling any counterattack . Though the government reformed a new Tagma of
Immortals to replace that of the eastern tagma, this was not nearly enough. The Viglia
and Ikanatoi were gone, never to be mentioned again in the histories. The
Campanions were at 1/4 strength, since most had taken service with Philaretus.
The western Tagmata rebelled three times, and twice were suppressed by Turks,
helping the new government o occupy the larger part of Asia Minor. This
helped reduce the Western army's numbers even further.
In 1081 the Domestic of the West, Alexius Comnenus seized power at
Constantinople with the help of the Varangians and some other mercenaries The Turks
continued advancing in Anatolia, and the Normans of formerly occupied Italy
invaded the Balkans, where the Normans and Italian allies badly defeated the emperor
near Dyrrhachium on the Balkan coast, apparently dispersing the little of
what remained of the western Tagmata and slaughtering the Varangians.
The Excubitors are mentioned just before the defeat at Dyrrhachium, but
afterwards there no is mention of them, or the Scholae nor the Hicanati. It is
apparent the scraps were never reformed. The last Tagma mentioned in the sources
is the reconstituted Immortals, in 1176.
Elements of the eastern Tagmata may have survived in the East for a time
under Philaretus and his sons, and perhaps even in the new Kingdom of Armenian
Cilicia that lasted three hundred years. But being cut-off, they were unable
to rejoin the empire. Most Anatolia was
lost both as recruiting ground for troops and income producing area. It was
so tied into the identify of New Rome, that the Seljiks called it the
Sultanate of Rum, Rum being the Turkish word for "Rome" It was a vital loss — the
death blow to an Empire.
Alexius Comnenus gathered new forces after his defeat at Dyrrhachium. Most of
them were mercenaries,some were Turks, Utes, and Patzinaks paid with Imperial
gold, some being raised by papal fervor in the West to retake the Holy Land
and with these Crusaders' aid, Alexis embarked on the conquest of East
Anatolia, but for the national army it was too late. The old Roman army, units that
could trace their heritage back to the Legiones and Auxiliaries of the Roman
Principate were gone, either destroyed in the battle, or destroyed in its
turbulent aftermath. The new Roman army would be based on western feudalism and
eastern mercenaries. It was the end of an era.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I live here.Always have,always will.Im not a
tourist.Folks,enough with the hes a racist nonsense.I
know racism I didnt speak ENGLISH until I was
9,alright?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:

> Salvete, omnes!
>
> I love New York City. I am not a citizen of the U.S.

NYC is a magic

> place, and one of the main ingredients of that

magic, is its diversity.

> Many peoples, cultures, languages, religions,

visions of the universe,

> live --mainly peacefully-- in the Big Apple. When

somebody complains

> because in NYC there "are too many races, cultures,

lifestyles & its bad

> to be American", I find that person to be a racist.

He doesn't like

> precisely what millions of persons like me, find

marvelous about that

> mangnificent city...
>
> In this sense, NYC has a true Roman spirit.
>
> Valete,
>
> M•IVL•SEVERVS
> SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
> MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
> PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Check out the latest SMS services @

http://www.linuxmail.org

> This allows you to send and receive SMS through your

mailbox.

>
> Powered by Outblaze
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

If it's a miss-spelling it does. Are you sure it hasn't been copied badly from
DEVS ID VOLT ? (Not IO)





It means God Wills It! Correct?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> >
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis,

peregrinisque omnibus, praesertim

> Sex. Pontio Pilato Barbato S.P.D.
>
>
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Not sure about the "io" (normally an exclamation

of joy), but the rest is

> > solid Latin! Deus = God; "volt" an alternative

form of "vult" (wants).

> The
> > only other "Io" I've heard of is that poor young

lady that Jupiter turned

> > into a cow!
> >
> > ATS: And I suspect that she¹s the very one meant

here‹one of my gram

> mars
> > lists Io as an alternate accusative singular of

this Greek noun borrowed

> into
> > Latin; the OLD confirms this as used by Ouidius.
> >
> > Vale bene!
> >
> > S Pontius Pilatus Barbatus
> >
> > Curate ut ualeatis optime,
> >
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Beh

> alf
> > Of raymond fuentes
> > Sent: 15 November 2005 06:03
> > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] This is Latin, isnt it?
> >
> >
> >
> > The term Deus Io Volt! Is Latin, isnt it? If not,

what

> > is it?
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was trying to convey is that conformity is largely
lost.That makes me a racist?I am a minority,I learned
the language & blended in.ANY nation expect less?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<praefectus2324@...> wrote:

> I live here.Always have,always will.Im not a
> tourist.Folks,enough with the hes a racist

nonsense.I

> know racism I didnt speak ENGLISH until I was
> 9,alright?
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
> > Salvete, omnes!
> >
> > I love New York City. I am not a citizen of the

U.S.

> NYC is a magic
> > place, and one of the main ingredients of that
> magic, is its diversity.
> > Many peoples, cultures, languages, religions,
> visions of the universe,
> > live --mainly peacefully-- in the Big Apple. When
> somebody complains
> > because in NYC there "are too many races,

cultures,

> lifestyles & its bad
> > to be American", I find that person to be a

racist.

> He doesn't like
> > precisely what millions of persons like me, find
> marvelous about that
> > mangnificent city...
> >
> > In this sense, NYC has a true Roman spirit.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > M•IVL•SEVERVS
> > SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
> > MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> > SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
> > PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Check out the latest SMS services @
> http://www.linuxmail.org
> > This allows you to send and receive SMS through

your

> mailbox.
> >
> > Powered by Outblaze
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in

one click.

> http://farechase.yahoo.com

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve Romans

As the year is fast coming to an end and elections will soon be held for next years magistrates
I had a question about the list guidelines.

Currently each years Praetors have a freehand in rewriting
the guideline to suit their joint outlook on list moderation.
For the most part modest changes are made year to year
but the essential framework remains the same.

Do you believe this system works well or would a more formal approach
to the list guidelines, say the guidelines adopted as a Lex be better?



Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

please-do bore me with the details.So much is
discussed about West that the East is largely
ignored.Can you fwd details off list?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <QFabiusMaxmi@...>
wrote:

> To Byzantine historians Manzikert will always be

referred to as "that

> terrible day."
> It ranks as high the disaster that leveled the

Eastern Army at Hadrianople

>
> Wikipeda says that the Roman army was unaffected yet

that simply was not

> true. The battle was culmination of Constantine X

hatred of the Army forci

> ng it's
> decline.
>
> I'm not going to bore you with Tagmatic and Thematic

differences in the arm

> y,
> consider the first the regular army, the second the

militia in a simplified

>
> explanation.
> Nevertheless, the results were very tangible. From

my monograph on the

> battle and its
> results:
>
> "But the disaffected relative of the late

Constantine X, Andronikos, spread

>
> the rumor in the second line that Romanus had been

killed and the Turkish

> numbers were greater than theirs. The Armenians on

the wing fled first, so

> that
> all got away, the Duxs of the Frontiers followed, if

the emperor had been

> defeated, their own forces must be preserved, since

their people depended o

> n them
> for defense.
> The Franks (Normans) may have thought about saving

the emperor and those

> fighting around him, but they followed Andronikos

from the field. Only the

> Utes,
> Patzinaks and the Companions of the second line rode

to the rescue. They w

> ere
> too late.
>
> The leading Tagmas had broken, the emperor was

captured by the Sultan. Som

> e
> allied Turks defected to the Seljuks, the rest of

the army joined Androniko

> s
> in the retreat. In two hours of hard fighting the

eastern Tagmata had been

>
> destroyed. The fact it took that long to break an

enemy formation struck i

> n the
> rear, tells what high morale the Tagmas must have

had. Only dusk saved the

>
> remnants of the disorganized and panic stricken

army.

>
> It is easy to curse the emperor for committing to an

attack with his large

>
> untrained army. However with hindsight it is always

easy. Romulus had no

> idea
> that his army would fall apart conducting a simple

change of face and that

> the
> Turks could reform and counter attack so swiftly.
> Nor did he realize his trusted second line

commander would not support him

>
> as the tactical manuals dictated. In his favor he

knew he could never asse

> mble
> such a large army again. He would not have the

fiances. Better to fight now

> ,
> and get it over with.
> The results of this great defeat were swift. While

the Roman high command

>
> reformed the remnants of the eastern army, the

sultan released Romanus in r

> eturn
> for a treaty ceding the border zone from Antioch to

Manzikert. But Romanus

> ’s
> enemies, the supporters of Constantine X, had

already seized power in

> Constantinople during his absence. Romulus rallied

some of his old Tagmati

> c army, but
> was up against the stronger western Thematic army,

which defeated him,

> captured him and had him put to death.
> Romanus’s loyal general Philaretus Brachamius

managed to hold the t

> hemes
> around Melitenel, with of the remains of the eastern

Tagmata, and the Anato

> likan
> themes much reduced in size after Manzikert. Other

rebels held the frontier

>
> from Taron to Edessa.
> The new government of Constantine X’s son Michael

VII held Antioch

> at the

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Thats what I did,yes.Thank You.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <me-in-@...>
wrote:

> If it's a miss-spelling it does. Are you sure it

hasn't been copied badly

> from
> DEVS ID VOLT ? (Not IO)
>
>
>
>
>
> It means God Wills It! Correct?
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
> > >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque omnibus, praesertim
> > Sex. Pontio Pilato Barbato S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Salve!
> > >
> > > Not sure about the "io" (normally an

exclamation

> of joy), but the rest is
> > > solid Latin! Deus = God; "volt" an alternative
> form of "vult" (wants).
> > The
> > > only other "Io" I've heard of is that poor

young

> lady that Jupiter turned
> > > into a cow!
> > >
> > > ATS: And I suspect that she¹s the very one

meant

> here‹one of my gram
> > mars
> > > lists Io as an alternate accusative singular of
> this Greek noun borrowed
> > into
> > > Latin; the OLD confirms this as used by

Ouidius.

> > >
> > > Vale bene!
> > >
> > > S Pontius Pilatus Barbatus
> > >
> > > Curate ut ualeatis optime,
> > >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Beh
> > alf
> > > Of raymond fuentes
> > > Sent: 15 November 2005 06:03
> > > To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] This is Latin, isnt it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The term Deus Io Volt! Is Latin, isnt it? If

not,

> what
> > > is it?
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Washinton and Madisen at least were Masons. Jefferson was probably a
Rosicrusian. And om Paine did his own thinking for himself!

<
And not only Masons. :)

A few quotes from the Founding Fathers:

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
George Washington: The United States is in no sense founded upon
Christian Doctrine.

Thomas Paine: I do not believe in the creed professed by the JewishChurch,
by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church,by the
Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My ownmind is my own
Church.

Thomas Jefferson: The day will come when the mystical generation ofJesus,
by the Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a virgin, willbe
classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brainof
Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and the freedomof
thought in these United States will do away with this artificial
scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of
this most venerated Reformer of human errors.

James Madison: During almost fifteen centuries the legalestablishment
known as Christianity has been on trial, and what have beenthe fruits,
more or less, in all places? These are the fruits: pride, indolence,
ignorance, and arrogance in the clergy. Ignorance,arrogance, and
servility in the laity, and in both clergy and laity,superstition,
bigotry, and persecution.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

No, the United States was not formed with Christianity as its basis.
Tolerance, freedom, individualism, - yes. Christianity, no - whatever the
current crop of politicians claim in order to pull the majority vote.

Of *anyone* in the world today, those who study history should be the
most aware of the tendency of politicians to rewrite it for their own
purposes.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dum inter homines sumus, colamus humanitatem.
As long as we are among humans, let us be humane.
-- Seneca, "De ira"






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I await the flood of data impatiently. Surely, in this great country of
ours, where our shameless Liberal media, who will cover *anything* to
make a buck, there must be reams and mounds of reports to choose from.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
I find this last a terrifyingly 'Chinese' sort of view: free media are
supposed to cover anything and everything, not to be told by eg Rupert
Murdoch or religious advertisers what to write. In a capitalist system, they
are of course expected to do this in order to make a buck.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I concur with this. I find also that interference to broaden American views or
criticism of teir preconceptions in a less parachial light has them the first
to be howling victimhood at te alleged abuse of everything they hold dear - as
if admitting that turkey and pumkin really are tasteless and Mom couldn't bake
an apple pie to save her life, while of course happily demonstrating their
ignorance of world affairs.




Severus Cordo omnibusque sal.

Thank you very much, A. Apollonius Cordus, for expressing what many Nova
Romans have been thinking about those discussions regarding United States
political affairs and particular interests, which are of no relevance for
us, since we are not citizens of that country, nor live there. I hope the
Nova Roman cives living in the United States, would have their own mail
list, such as we have almost everywhere else, and the main list remains
as a forum for all Nova Romans.

Valete,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR

--
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And continued to do so until Turkey was kicked out of the Ottoman Province of
Rum - that is, the Balkans, except for the tiny bit around Constantinople that
it still holds as Istanbul..





Salve


This article about the battle of Manzikert says that,
in 1071 AD, not only the Byzantines called themselves
Romans, but their opponents too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert


Vale
M.Arminius

--- raymond fuentes
escreveu:

> To clarify my question- When the BYZANTINES showed
> up
> on a battlefield, did the enemy forces say The
> damned
> Romans are here! What did the world call them?

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