Salve Tite Octavi Pi,

LOL, where are our other priests today? You'll need one on the back of
your chariot saying, remember Tite Octavi,thou art mortal!.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

>
> Salve, T. Artoria Marcella.
>
> Thank you and I'm glad you liked it. As my head is still swelling

with

> pride (or is it hubris?), I'm sure my next story will be available in
> your local bookstore. ;)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>

Salve, G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana.

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana wrote:

> I've just read your entry in the Certamen Petronianum. I am awed.

I'm glad you liked it and that most other people who have also seem to
like it...but awed? I am not sure it, or I, deserve such praise.

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana wrote:

> Congratulations, and magnas gratias tibia ago, for bringing such
> a treasure to us all. Tight, clean structure, rising to a poignant
> book-end, and a subdued style make this story feel like a painting
> in the finest miniaturist style.

Thank you very much and you're welcome. It's very nice to get such
positive feedback on my style, but surely there must be something I
could improve on? Or do you want my head to no longer fit through the
openings in my shirts?

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana wrote:

> And you touch on one of my life-long favorite themes: how oridinary
> people like your sheep-herder and his wife are entwined with the
> legendary and the mighty of history.

Yes, this is what I was looking for. I myself have always been
fascinated with the giants of history, the sheer scale of what they have
wrought, as I am sure many others have. However, both to provide a
backdrop to their acts and a link of commonality with the history, the
"little people" need to be emphasised.

If their contributions are emphasised just right, then perhaps the
people reading the story will realise that they can influence the future
of the world, that apathy is the only way to really and truly fail.

Erhmm...pardon my political and ideological ramblings. :)

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana wrote:

> The rest of us now have a good idea of the kind of standards
> we need to rise to.

Darn it. There goes my regular t-shirts. Do I have any v-necks, those
might still fit...

But seriously, you shouldn't be intimidated by the prose of anyone.
Nobody should. If I'd been, which I nearly was, I wouldn't have
submitted my entry before Dr. McCullough and Prof. Wiseman. Take the
chance, I did and do you see me regretting it? ;)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:

> LOL, where are our other priests today? You'll need one on the back
> of your chariot saying, remember Tite Octavi,thou art mortal!.

Salve, Quinte Suetoni Pauline.

They are busy making offerings before my new altar. I may be mortal, but
my stories will last as long as mankind! To quote Shelley, "My name is
Ozymandias, King of Kings, Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

(All said in good humour, of course.)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Congratulations to G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana! The Gods have favored you with victory and it is well deserved!
*catches some of the roses thrown into the crowd and hands one to G. Equitius Marinus**
I hear Crassus is coming next time as a T-Rex. Just so long as I have a good seat to see that!
Special kudos to C. Curius Saturninus for the wonderful and exciting commentary! Well done indeed! **applause**
Come, dear Goofus, let me give you a ride in my chariot to the Tavern of the Elephant for the celebration. Maximus is off somewhere doing his own celebrating, but not to worry. I can handle a chariot on my own. It's easy to find mine in the chariot parking lot. It's the one with the bumper stick on the back that reads: "I LOVE CHARIOT RACING!!!"
Can't wait till the next time!

Vale bene,

Maxima Valeria Messallina


---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Messallina,

Maxima Valeria Messallina

> *catches some of the roses thrown into the crowd and hands one
> to G. Equitius Marinus**

Why, thank you!

Far be it from me to decline such a gracious offer!

-- Marinus

Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!

[ piggybacking on a post, please excuse ]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 07:48:18AM -0000, Maior wrote:
> M. Hortensia T.Octavio spd;
> Euge! many congratulations to you Tite Octavi, you must be
> absolutely thrilled to bits to have such a distinguished jury award
> you the prize.

I would like to add my own (belated) congratulations to everyone else's
- my most sincere felicitations on your sucess, amice! It gave me great
pleasure to see you win this well-deserved honor. Please don't forget
your friends when you are wealthy and famous. :)


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for example in physics."

Salvete, omnes -

I just ran across a site - a little crudely put together, but still
useful - that focuses on geographical/political/historical maps, etc.
for Europe. Part of the site is dedicated to Roma Antiqua, and has some
very interesting overviews; e.g.,

http://www.euratlas.net/Roma/7colli.htm

shows the seven hills of Rome, and

http://www.euratlas.net/Roma/rome100.htm

represents the various districts (zoomable) overlaid on that map. I
can't vouch for its accuracy, but it's certainly interesting to explore.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
When two do the same thing, it isn't the same (i.e. one can get away with doing
something while another cannot).
-- Terence, "Adelphoe". Cf. "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

Salve Tite Octave Pie,

Congratulations. A fine piece of literature!

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ! ! ! THE WINNER OF THE 1st CERTAMEN PETRONIANUM ! ! !


Salve, Titus Octavius Pius Amice!

[ piggybacking on a post, please excuse ]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 07:48:18AM -0000, Maior wrote:
> M. Hortensia T.Octavio spd;
> Euge! many congratulations to you Tite Octavi, you must be
> absolutely thrilled to bits to have such a distinguished jury award
> you the prize.

I would like to add my own (belated) congratulations to everyone else's
- my most sincere felicitations on your sucess, amice! It gave me great
pleasure to see you win this well-deserved honor. Please don't forget
your friends when you are wealthy and famous. :)


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.
-- Principle known as Occam's Razor, "used for example in physics."


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Pius,

> Thank you, Consul. I am glad you appreciated my story, and I am

indeed

> honoured by the award.

Yes, I like it, it's very interesting.

Maybe if we'ld continue the Certamen, we could publish a book with
all the tales written during the next years.

> What are you doing up this late on a weekday?

Yes, I know, it's late for "normal people". But not for me, my
broken left arm forces me at home and sometimes at hospital, so I
can be up during the night and wake up in the late morning ;-)

> And why am I up and active
> enough to answer within five minutes? Oh tempora, oh mores.

Excellent, very fast :-D

Vale
FAC

Sensei Phil Perez wrote:

> Congratulations. A fine piece of literature!

Salve, Marce Cassi Philippe.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! :)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Benjamin A. Okopnik wrote:

> I would like to add my own (belated) congratulations to everyone else's
> - my most sincere felicitations on your sucess, amice! It gave me great
> pleasure to see you win this well-deserved honor. Please don't forget
> your friends when you are wealthy and famous. :)

Salve, Cai Minuci Scaevola.

Thank you very much. I'm not sure I deserve the honour, as I feel
certain other participants must have worked harder than myself, but I am
nonetheless happy to have been recognised for my talent and a sincere
effort.

By the way, good sir, who are you?

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

P.S. I hope you've read, or take the time to read, the story. Feel free
to comment, in public or in private. I can take criticism. :)

Salve, Caesar.

FAC wrote:

> Maybe if we'ld continue the Certamen, we could publish a book with
> all the tales written during the next years.

Now that sounds like an idea! The rules of the contest states:

"Nova Roma reserves the right to publish or broadcast the five best
tales, in any medium or media, any number of times and at any stage in
the future."

So with each story being less than 3000 words, or 8 pages, five entries
each year means 40 pages a year. In 5 years, an anthology of some 200
pages should be possible.

I'd buy a copy! :)

FAC wrote:

> Yes, I know, it's late for "normal people". But not for me, my
> broken left arm forces me at home and sometimes at hospital, so I
> can be up during the night and wake up in the late morning ;-)

And today I'm up at almost 3AM, without your excuse. Hmm...I might have
mildly sprained my ancle the day before yesterday, does that count?

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

SERVIVS IVLIVS PERTINAX TITO OCTAVIO PIO

Salve Pi

From the sunny country of Costa Rica IÂ’ve got news for
you... YOUR VICTORY SHOOK US LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE...
AND WE ARE STILL TREMBLING WITH JOY AND HAPPINESS!!!


Now YOU fly on the wings of heavenly Victory. I pray
the GODS may give you everlasting inspiration to
keep on writing and to keep on delighting us with such
good literature...

I would say more... BUT I CANÂ’T WAIT TO READ YOUR
NOVEL!!!

VALE

Servius Iulius Pertinax



______________________________________________
Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!
Nuevos servicios, más seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es

As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"Fabius immediately summoned his troops to assembly, and appealed to
them to show the same courage with which they had defended the
republic from a brave and determined foe in protecting from the
unrestrained ferocity of the Dictator the man under whose auspices and
generalship they had been victorious. He was coming, maddened by
jealousy, exasperated at another man's merits and good fortune,
furious because the republic had triumphed in his absence. If it were
in his power to change the fortune of the day, he would rather that
victory rested with the Samnites than with the Romans. He kept talking
about the contempt of orders as though the reason why he forbade all
fighting were not precisely the same as that which makes him vexed now
that we have fought. Then, prompted by jealousy, he wanted to suppress
the merits of others and deprive of their arms men who were most eager
to use them, so as to prevent their being employed in his absence; now
he is exasperated and furious because the soldiers were not crippled
or defenceless though L. Papirius was not with them, and because Q.
Fabius considered himself Master of the Horse and not the lacquey of
the Dictator. What would he have done if, as often happens amid the
chances of war, the battle had gone against us, seeing that now, after
the enemy has been thoroughly defeated and a victory won for the
republic which even under his unrivalled generalship could not have
been more complete, he is actually menacing the Master of the Horse
with punishment! He would, were it in his power, treat all with equal
severity, not only the Master of Horse but the military tribunes, the
centurions, the men of the rank and file. Jealousy, like lightning,
strikes the summits, and because he cannot reach all he has selected
one man as his victim whom he regards as the chief conspirator-your
general. If he should succeed in crushing him and quenching the
splendour of his success, he will treat this army as a victor treats
the vanquished and with the same ruthlessness which he has been
allowed to practice on the Master of the Horse. In defending his cause
they will be defending the liberty of all. If the Dictator sees that
the army is as united in guarding its victory as it was in fighting
for it, and that one man's safety is the common concern of all, he
will bring himself to a calmer frame of mind. His closing words were:
" I entrust my fortunes and my life to your fidelity and courage." His
words were greeted with universal shouts of approval. They told him
not to be dismayed or depressed, no man should harm him while the
legions of Rome were alive." - Livy, History of Rome 8.31


On this day in A.D. 1492, Christopher Columbus discovered Puerto Rico.

On this day in A.D. 1600, King Charles I of England was born.


Today is the National Holiday of the Principality of Monaco. Hercules
was said to have passed through the area, and the founders of the
nearby Greek colony, the Phoceans, built him a "single temple"
("monoikos") to commemorate the event.

Monaco was re-founded in 1215 as a colony of Genoa. Monaco has been
ruled by the House of Grimaldi since 1297, when Francois Grimaldi
seized the fortress protecting the famous rock while dressed up as a
Franciscan monk ("monaco" in Italian); the only exception to this was
from 1793 to 1814, when Monaco was under French control. Designated as
a protectorate of Sardinia from 1815 until 1860 by the Congress of
Vienna, Monaco's sovereignty was recognised by the Franco-Monegasque
Treaty of 1861. The Prince of Monaco was an absolute ruler until a
constitution was promulgated in 1911. In July 1918, a treaty was
signed providing for limited French protection over Monaco. The
treaty, written into the Treaty of Versailles, established that
Monegasque policy would be aligned with French political, military,
and economic interests.

Prince Rainier III acceded to the throne following the death of his
grandfather, Prince Louis II, in 1949. A new constitution, proclaimed
in 1962, abolished capital punishment, provided for female suffrage,
and established a Supreme Court to guarantee fundamental liberties. In
1993, Monaco became an official member of the United Nations with full
voting rights. In 2002, a new treaty between France and Monaco
clarifies that if there are no heirs to carry on the dynasty, the
Principality will remain an independent nation rather than revert to
the French. Monaco's military defence, however, is still the
responsibility of France.

Prince Rainer will be crowned today as ruler of Monaco.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Monaco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco)

M. Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.

I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with you,
sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you yourself
said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn for you as
a person or a citizen.

I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I feel
there is room for all views on macronational issues as long as we all
keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

>
> As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

Salve,

I wish you wouldn't go. I actually liked reading your posts. Please stay.
I'm planning on returning to the US Army as an officer too by the way. Bona
fortuna. Mvlti svnt vocati, pavci vero electi.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

----- Original Message -----
From: "raymond fuentes" <praefectus2324@...>
To: <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 5:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


> As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salvete omnes,

A real Roman departs our midst to do what real Romans have always done: To fight Barbarians! The rest of us can continue to sit here in the forum and talk all the nonsense we want. Our rights to do so protected by young men like Flavius. Yes, even those of us who do not live in the USA. What he goes to fight will endanger us all sooner or later if not stopped in its tracks. The USA has drawn a line in the sand so it won't have to be drawn in our streets. May the gods of Rome protect him as well as the Supreme Being he may believe in.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: raymond fuentes
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 5:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 11/18/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:

I don't understand why do you want to leave us. If you feel yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you belong in the New Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have to ask the question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not care for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a Nova Roman, a citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't be more... Please consider that!

Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!

CN CORN LENTVLVS


"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> ha scritto: M. Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.

I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with you,
sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you yourself
said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn for you as
a person or a citizen.

I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I feel
there is room for all views on macronational issues as long as we all
keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

>
> As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen

Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve M. Flavi Fide,

I think everyone here would rather see you stay in NR. I just wanted
to ask you how you think things would be different in the us army as
far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I see many of your
liberal American senators with serious clout, spouting off with views
totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines and army or navy.
A few of our girls I know and respect very much in NR are ex army,
one in the navy yet and I believe another had been to the middle east
yet they are liberal at times in their views.

Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be facing or
fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more conservative,
tenacious and nastier with their words and actions and far to the
right of Atilla The Hun.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
>
> I don't understand why do you want to leave us. If you feel

yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you belong in the New
Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have to ask the
question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not care
for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a Nova Roman, a
citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't be
more... Please consider that!

>
> Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
>
> CN CORN LENTVLVS
>
>
> "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha scritto: M.

Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.

>
> I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with you,
> sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you yourself
> said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn for

you as

> a person or a citizen.
>
> I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I feel
> there is room for all views on macronational issues as long as we

all

> keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
> Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
> Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve;
I have come under attack several times in Nova Roma, from several sides.
Its part of being a Roman who voices his or her opinion. I don't understand
exactly what you mean by "liberal" Nova Roma. There are several here who are
more "liberal" than I, and some who are more conservative. I think Nova Roma
is a good cross section of political ideologies.
If you feel you must go, then go. If you return then welcome back.
Otherwise, go in peace.
Vale;
C. Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/19/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
>
> As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as a
policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear for
the West
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
wrote:

> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> I think everyone here would rather see you stay in

NR. I just wanted

> to ask you how you think things would be different

in the us army as

> far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I

see many of your

> liberal American senators with serious clout,

spouting off with views

> totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines

and army or navy.

> A few of our girls I know and respect very much in

NR are ex army,

> one in the navy yet and I believe another had been

to the middle east

> yet they are liberal at times in their views.
>
> Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be

facing or

> fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more

conservative,

> tenacious and nastier with their words and actions

and far to the

> right of Atilla The Hun.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius

Lentulus

> <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> >
> > I don't understand why do you want to leave us.

If you feel

> yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you

belong in the New

> Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have

to ask the

> question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman

citizen. Do not care

> for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a

Nova Roman, a

> citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave

us, you won't be

> more... Please consider that!
> >
> > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
> >
> > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> >
> >
> > "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha

scritto: M.

> Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> >
> > I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I

don't agree with you,

> > sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed,

sure, but you yourself

> > said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I

seen scorn for

> you as
> > a person or a citizen.
> >
> > I personally would be pleased indeed were you

not to leave. I feel

> > there is room for all views on macronational

issues as long as we

> all
> > keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond

fuentes

> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by

most for my

> > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR &

return to

> > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid

of me.

> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae

Scholasticae Senior

> > Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Latinista, Classicus Philologus

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

Salve my friend Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part

"they'll be far more conservative, tenacious and nastier with their words and actions and far to the right of Attila The Hun."

"Conservatism, a general state of mind that is averse to rapid change and innovation and strives for balance and order, while avoiding extremes."

The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who kill without conscience men, women and child of all faiths to bring about
an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the worlds people.

Please try and be reasonable on what you label conservative.

I have also asked Marcvs Flavivs Fides to stay but I have done so off list. Nova Roma is big enough for ALL viewpoints, even the ones I disagree with and too small for us to lose any of our citizens.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...


Salve M. Flavi Fide,

I think everyone here would rather see you stay in NR. I just wanted
to ask you how you think things would be different in the us army as
far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I see many of your
liberal American senators with serious clout, spouting off with views
totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines and army or navy.
A few of our girls I know and respect very much in NR are ex army,
one in the navy yet and I believe another had been to the middle east
yet they are liberal at times in their views.

Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be facing or
fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more conservative,
tenacious and nastier with their words and actions and far to the
right of Atilla The Hun.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
>
> I don't understand why do you want to leave us. If you feel
yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you belong in the New
Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have to ask the
question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not care
for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a Nova Roman, a
citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't be
more... Please consider that!
>
> Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
>
> CN CORN LENTVLVS
>
>
> "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha scritto: M.
Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
>
> I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with you,
> sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you yourself
> said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn for
you as
> a person or a citizen.
>
> I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I feel
> there is room for all views on macronational issues as long as we
all
> keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
> Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
> Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Francisco Apulo T. Octavio omnibus sal.

> > Maybe if we'ld continue the Certamen, we could
> publish a book with
> > all the tales written during the next years.
>
> Now that sounds like an idea! The rules of the
> contest states:
>
> "Nova Roma reserves the right to publish or
> broadcast the five best
> tales, in any medium or media, any number of times
> and at any stage in
> the future."
>
> So with each story being less than 3000 words, or 8
> pages, five entries
> each year means 40 pages a year. In 5 years, an
> anthology of some 200
> pages should be possible.

Yes, it's a nice idea. I have to say, though, next
year I'd like to see the word-limit a bit more
generous, maybe 5,000 words. I don't know about you,
but I found it very difficult to squeeze a story into
such a short space - my first draft was about 4,000
words and I lost some nice material cutting it down.
Did you find that problem?



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

I would never renounce NR, it is so much a part of
me.I will remain in touch and pay my taxes but I feel
my time in service is better spent in green not blue.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <wm_hogue@...>
wrote:

> M. Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
>
> I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't

agree with you,

> sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure,

but you yourself

> said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen

scorn for you as

> a person or a citizen.
>
> I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to

leave. I feel

> there is room for all views on macronational issues

as long as we all

> keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most

for my

> > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return

to

> > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of

me.

> >
> > S P Q R
> >
> > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> >
> > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home

page!

> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>
>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve M. Flavi Fide,

Well stick around with us anyway. Here you can defend your views all
you like and are not hampered by protocals or forced political
correctness as you are in the police. Another thing is that you and
the conserative right may well proved correct in time. Should the
west lose and fall eventually under the caliphates your situation as
a male will change little other than growing some stubble and
changing hat styles. You can then sit back (no alcohol), chew some
khat and grin sardonically watching the clamp down on libertarians,
pagans, the staunch femenists etc whilst thinking and saying I told
you so!

Sounds like you are having a difficult week. Sit back, put away a
hogs head of ale, or some spiced wine, clear your head and stick
around. Like they say in New York... fawget about it.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus








--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
<praefectus2324@y...> wrote:

>
> I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as a
> policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
> comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear for
> the West
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@d...>
> wrote:
> > Salve M. Flavi Fide,
> >
> > I think everyone here would rather see you stay in
> NR. I just wanted
> > to ask you how you think things would be different
> in the us army as
> > far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I
> see many of your
> > liberal American senators with serious clout,
> spouting off with views
> > totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines
> and army or navy.
> > A few of our girls I know and respect very much in
> NR are ex army,
> > one in the navy yet and I believe another had been
> to the middle east
> > yet they are liberal at times in their views.
> >
> > Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be
> facing or
> > fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more
> conservative,
> > tenacious and nastier with their words and actions
> and far to the
> > right of Atilla The Hun.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius
> Lentulus
> > <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> > >
> > > I don't understand why do you want to leave us.
> If you feel
> > yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you
> belong in the New
> > Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have
> to ask the
> > question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman
> citizen. Do not care
> > for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a
> Nova Roman, a
> > citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave
> us, you won't be
> > more... Please consider that!
> > >
> > > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
> > >
> > > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> > >
> > >
> > > "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha
> scritto: M.
> > Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> > >
> > > I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I
> don't agree with you,
> > > sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed,
> sure, but you yourself
> > > said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I
> seen scorn for
> > you as
> > > a person or a citizen.
> > >
> > > I personally would be pleased indeed were you
> not to leave. I feel
> > > there is room for all views on macronational
> issues as long as we
> > all
> > > keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond
> fuentes
> > > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by
> most for my
> > > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR &
> return to
> > > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid
> of me.
> > > >
> > > > S P Q R
> > > >
> > > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > > >
> > > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > > Roman Citizen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae
> Scholasticae Senior
> > > Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > > Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
> === Message Truncated ===
>
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>

Allah Ahkbar!

"The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who kill
without conscience men, women and child of all faiths to bring about

> an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the

worlds people."

>

My friend, you have the tongue of a serpent! By the beard of the
prophet, keep it wagging and I'll cut it out! -:


Peace be upon you,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:

>
> Salve my friend Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part
>
> "they'll be far more conservative, tenacious and nastier with their

words and actions and far to the right of Attila The Hun."

>
> "Conservatism, a general state of mind that is averse to rapid

change and innovation and strives for balance and order, while
avoiding extremes."

>
> The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who

kill without conscience men, women and child of all faiths to bring
about

> an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the

worlds people.

>
> Please try and be reasonable on what you label conservative.
>
> I have also asked Marcvs Flavivs Fides to stay but I have done so

off list. Nova Roma is big enough for ALL viewpoints, even the ones I
disagree with and too small for us to lose any of our citizens.

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@d...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:48 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...
>
>
> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> I think everyone here would rather see you stay in NR. I just

wanted

> to ask you how you think things would be different in the us army

as

> far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I see many of

your

> liberal American senators with serious clout, spouting off with

views

> totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines and army or

navy.

> A few of our girls I know and respect very much in NR are ex

army,

> one in the navy yet and I believe another had been to the middle

east

> yet they are liberal at times in their views.
>
> Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be facing or
> fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more conservative,
> tenacious and nastier with their words and actions and far to the
> right of Atilla The Hun.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> >
> > I don't understand why do you want to leave us. If you feel
> yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you belong in the

New

> Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have to ask the
> question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not

care

> for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a Nova Roman, a
> citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't

be

> more... Please consider that!
> >
> > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
> >
> > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> >
> >
> > "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha scritto:

M.

> Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> >
> > I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with

you,

> > sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you

yourself

> > said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn

for

> you as
> > a person or a citizen.
> >
> > I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I

feel

> > there is room for all views on macronational issues as long

as we

> all
> > keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
> > Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "Nova-

Roma<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma>" on the web.

>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma-

unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

Funny very funny. : ) Unless they win. : (


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:05 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...


Allah Ahkbar!

"The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who kill
without conscience men, women and child of all faiths to bring about
> an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the
worlds people."
>
My friend, you have the tongue of a serpent! By the beard of the
prophet, keep it wagging and I'll cut it out! -:


Peace be upon you,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
<spqr753@m...> wrote:
>
> Salve my friend Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part
>
> "they'll be far more conservative, tenacious and nastier with their
words and actions and far to the right of Attila The Hun."
>
> "Conservatism, a general state of mind that is averse to rapid
change and innovation and strives for balance and order, while
avoiding extremes."
>
> The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who
kill without conscience men, women and child of all faiths to bring
about
> an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the
worlds people.
>
> Please try and be reasonable on what you label conservative.
>
> I have also asked Marcvs Flavivs Fides to stay but I have done so
off list. Nova Roma is big enough for ALL viewpoints, even the ones I
disagree with and too small for us to lose any of our citizens.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@d...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:48 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...
>
>
> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> I think everyone here would rather see you stay in NR. I just
wanted
> to ask you how you think things would be different in the us army
as
> far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I see many of
your
> liberal American senators with serious clout, spouting off with
views
> totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines and army or
navy.
> A few of our girls I know and respect very much in NR are ex
army,
> one in the navy yet and I believe another had been to the middle
east
> yet they are liberal at times in their views.
>
> Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be facing or
> fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more conservative,
> tenacious and nastier with their words and actions and far to the
> right of Atilla The Hun.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> >
> > I don't understand why do you want to leave us. If you feel
> yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you belong in the
New
> Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have to ask the
> question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not
care
> for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a Nova Roman, a
> citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't
be
> more... Please consider that!
> >
> > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
> >
> > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> >
> >
> > "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha scritto:
M.
> Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> >
> > I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I don't agree with
you,
> > sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed, sure, but you
yourself
> > said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I seen scorn
for
> you as
> > a person or a citizen.
> >
> > I personally would be pleased indeed were you not to leave. I
feel
> > there is room for all views on macronational issues as long
as we
> all
> > keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by most for my
> > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
> > Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 06:10:48AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:

> I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as a
> policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
> comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear for
> the West

Ah, still here despite the grand announcement. Great.

The rest of the NYPD would be _amazed_ to hear that their job consists
of "fighting... the left"; in fact, I think they would say that your job
is to *protect* *the* *public*. Whether that public is right, left,
center, or a continuous spiral arranged in a Witch of Agnesi. If you
have abandoned your duty to the extent of "fighting the left" while
you're getting paid to protect all, then your concept of duty needs
revisiting.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Melius frangi quam flecti.
It is better to break than to bend.
-- N/A

Salvete, omnes -

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 07:44:40AM -0500, Sensei Phil Perez wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> A real Roman departs our midst to do what real Romans have always
> done: To fight Barbarians! The rest of us can continue to sit here in
> the forum and talk all the nonsense we want. Our rights to do so
> protected by young men like Flavius. Yes, even those of us who do not
> live in the USA.

Amice, weren't you the one who said "can we please get back to
discussing Roma", or something of the sort? Repeatedly, in fact?
However, since you bring it up: I disagree with you. Completely. Flavius
has gone off to protect the interests of Big Oil, the private political
grudges of Bush and Co. When I was in the US Army, I was proud to serve
the United States; today, I would be ashamed and I would feel that my
effort and sacrifice were going to serve dishonorable ends.

Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in combat - and yet,
they scream for young men to serve their ends and die for them. I find
their endless lies to be nothing more than filthy distortions, designed
to do nothing more than stir up hate. The fact that they are wildly
successful - that over TWO THOUSAND of our men have died in a sand pit
into which those lies have lured them - should be a wakeup call to
everyone, not just here in the US but all over the world.

Bush lied about Iraq's involvement with the events of 9/11.
He lied about Saddam's ties with the religious fanatics.
He lied about the later intelligence he got about Iraq.
He lied about Iraqi oil paying for this war.
He lied about WMDs.
He lied about terrorism statistics (terrorism has risen sharply in the
recent years.)
He lied about his military record.
He lied about not being arrested.
He lied about funding schools.
He lied about Social Security.
He lied about tax cuts.
He lied about the AIDS funding his administration is providing.
He lied about not knowing how intense Katrina was when it approached NO.

He has not stopped lying from day one:
http://www.bushwatch.net/bushlies.htm

His lies have cost us thousands of American lives, they have cost us the
financial future of our descendants, and they continue to bleed us white
every day.

The top supporter of the military and of our veterans' interests,
Congressman John Murtha, has called for immediate withdrawal as the only
sane policy from this point forward - and the Bush machine has
immediately gone into overdrive to discredit and dishonor this Vietnam
veteran who fought with distinction.

I consider Bush and his entire political machine to be vile murderers.
I've never tied myself to any political party, but these days, the
Republicans are completely anathema to me for their support of him and
his policies of religious fanaticism-driven mass murders.

> What he goes to fight will endanger us all sooner or
> later if not stopped in its tracks. The USA has drawn a line in the
> sand so it won't have to be drawn in our streets.

It's a line drawn only in their own minds. I served in the US Army's
Military Intelligence branch, and I assure you that this country is
completely porous to any threat that any terrorist would care to
perpetrate on it; we have spent the money that could have gone to
*real*, in-depth defense on "security theater", on creating a show that
will calm the populace by its appearance but has provided no benefit
(and a large detriment by consuming the resources that could have been
used properly.)

> May the gods of Rome
> protect him as well as the Supreme Being he may believe in.

May the Gods of Rome, and any other force that can be brought to bear,
protect him in his misdirected effort. May they protect his life, and
may they help him to discover some small measure of honor in the
completely dishonorable endeavor in which he is now entangled.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Whatever this may be, I fear the Greeks even when they're bringing gifts.
-- Vergil, "Aenis. The priest Laokoon's warning when seeing the Trojan horse."

I fight for the young idealistic infantryman and o311s
I might be able to help...not for the cause but for
the men who need experienced leaders.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Salvete, omnes -
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 07:44:40AM -0500, Sensei

Phil Perez wrote:

> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > A real Roman departs our midst to do what real

Romans have always

> > done: To fight Barbarians! The rest of us can

continue to sit here in

> > the forum and talk all the nonsense we want. Our

rights to do so

> > protected by young men like Flavius. Yes, even

those of us who do not

> > live in the USA.
>
> Amice, weren't you the one who said "can we please

get back to

> discussing Roma", or something of the sort?

Repeatedly, in fact?

> However, since you bring it up: I disagree with you.

Completely. Flavius

> has gone off to protect the interests of Big Oil,

the private political

> grudges of Bush and Co. When I was in the US Army,

I was proud to serve

> the United States; today, I would be ashamed and I

would feel that my

> effort and sacrifice were going to serve

dishonorable ends.

>
> Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in

combat - and yet,

> they scream for young men to serve their ends and

die for them. I find

> their endless lies to be nothing more than filthy

distortions, designed

> to do nothing more than stir up hate. The fact that

they are wildly

> successful - that over TWO THOUSAND of our men have

died in a sand pit

> into which those lies have lured them - should be a

wakeup call to

> everyone, not just here in the US but all over the

world.

>
> Bush lied about Iraq's involvement with the events

of 9/11.

> He lied about Saddam's ties with the religious

fanatics.

> He lied about the later intelligence he got about

Iraq.

> He lied about Iraqi oil paying for this war.
> He lied about WMDs.
> He lied about terrorism statistics (terrorism has

risen sharply in the

> recent years.)
> He lied about his military record.
> He lied about not being arrested.
> He lied about funding schools.
> He lied about Social Security.
> He lied about tax cuts.
> He lied about the AIDS funding his administration is

providing.

> He lied about not knowing how intense Katrina was

when it approached NO.

>
> He has not stopped lying from day one:
> http://www.bushwatch.net/bushlies.htm
>
> His lies have cost us thousands of American lives,

they have cost us the

> financial future of our descendants, and they

continue to bleed us white

> every day.
>
> The top supporter of the military and of our

veterans' interests,

> Congressman John Murtha, has called for immediate

withdrawal as the only

> sane policy from this point forward - and the Bush

machine has

> immediately gone into overdrive to discredit and

dishonor this Vietnam

> veteran who fought with distinction.
>
> I consider Bush and his entire political machine to

be vile murderers.

> I've never tied myself to any political party, but

these days, the

> Republicans are completely anathema to me for their

support of him and

> his policies of religious fanaticism-driven mass

murders.

>
> > What he goes to fight will endanger us all sooner

or

> > later if not stopped in its tracks. The USA has

drawn a line in the

> > sand so it won't have to be drawn in our streets.
>
> It's a line drawn only in their own minds. I served

in the US Army's

> Military Intelligence branch, and I assure you that

this country is

> completely porous to any threat that any terrorist

would care to

> perpetrate on it; we have spent the money that could

have gone to

> *real*, in-depth defense on "security theater", on

creating a show that

> will calm the populace by its appearance but has

provided no benefit

> (and a large detriment by consuming the resources

that could have been

> used properly.)
>
> > May the gods of Rome
> > protect him as well as the Supreme Being he may

believe in.

>
> May the Gods of Rome, and any other force that can

be brought to bear,

> protect him in his misdirected effort. May they

protect his life, and

> may they help him to discover some small measure of

honor in the

> completely dishonorable endeavor in which he is now

entangled.
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Im not resigning.Im just putting my boots back on the
ground instead of my mouth.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
wrote:

> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> Well stick around with us anyway. Here you can

defend your views all

> you like and are not hampered by protocals or forced

political

> correctness as you are in the police. Another thing

is that you and

> the conserative right may well proved correct in

time. Should the

> west lose and fall eventually under the caliphates

your situation as

> a male will change little other than growing some

stubble and

> changing hat styles. You can then sit back (no

alcohol), chew some

> khat and grin sardonically watching the clamp down

on libertarians,

> pagans, the staunch femenists etc whilst thinking

and saying I told

> you so!
>
> Sounds like you are having a difficult week. Sit

back, put away a

> hogs head of ale, or some spiced wine, clear your

head and stick

> around. Like they say in New York... fawget about

it.

>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond fuentes
> <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as

a

> > policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
> > comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear

for

> > the West
> > --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@d...>
> > wrote:
> > > Salve M. Flavi Fide,
> > >
> > > I think everyone here would rather see you stay

in

> > NR. I just wanted
> > > to ask you how you think things would be

different

> > in the us army as
> > > far as liberal and social attitudes are

concerned? I

> > see many of your
> > > liberal American senators with serious clout,
> > spouting off with views
> > > totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex-

marines

> > and army or navy.
> > > A few of our girls I know and respect very much

in

> > NR are ex army,
> > > one in the navy yet and I believe another had

been

> > to the middle east
> > > yet they are liberal at times in their views.
> > >
> > > Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't

be

> > facing or
> > > fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far

more

> > conservative,
> > > tenacious and nastier with their words and

actions

> > and far to the
> > > right of Atilla The Hun.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus

Cornelius

> > Lentulus
> > > <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei

salutem:

> > > >
> > > > I don't understand why do you want to leave

us.

> > If you feel
> > > yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times,

you

> > belong in the New
> > > Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I

have

> > to ask the

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve, Marce Flavi Fides!

If you're unhappy in your present situation, you're doing the right thing!
But stay with Nova Roma! I always enjoy your pithy, common-sense,
down-to-earth comments and would miss them if they stopped arriving. And I
write as the son of a policeman who died in the line of duty.

Take care and vale optime.

S Pontius Pilatus Barbatus



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of raymond fuentes
Sent: 19 November 2005 14:11
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...



I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as a
policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear for
the West
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
wrote:

> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> I think everyone here would rather see you stay in

NR. I just wanted

> to ask you how you think things would be different

in the us army as

> far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? I

see many of your

> liberal American senators with serious clout,

spouting off with views

> totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marines

and army or navy.

> A few of our girls I know and respect very much in

NR are ex army,

> one in the navy yet and I believe another had been

to the middle east

> yet they are liberal at times in their views.
>
> Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't be

facing or

> fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far more

conservative,

> tenacious and nastier with their words and actions

and far to the

> right of Atilla The Hun.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius

Lentulus

> <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> >
> > I don't understand why do you want to leave us.

If you feel

> yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times, you

belong in the New

> Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I have

to ask the

> question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman

citizen. Do not care

> for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a

Nova Roman, a

> citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave

us, you won't be

> more... Please consider that!
> >
> > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime, Marce Flavi!
> >
> > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> >
> >
> > "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@y...> ha

scritto: M.

> Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> >
> > I don't understand this at all. Sometimes I

don't agree with you,

> > sure, and sometimes your ideas are opposed,

sure, but you yourself

> > said you get some quiet support. Nowhere have I

seen scorn for

> you as
> > a person or a citizen.
> >
> > I personally would be pleased indeed were you

not to leave. I feel

> > there is room for all views on macronational

issues as long as we

> all
> > keep sight of our common interest in Romanitas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, raymond

fuentes

> > <praefectus2324@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > As A proud Roman & civi that is scorned by

most for my

> > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR &

return to

> > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid

of me.

> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae

Scholasticae Senior

> > Scriba Magistri Araneari Q. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Latinista, Classicus Philologus

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I really hope you're not implying that those of use who have served and
didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


> Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in combat - and yet,
> they scream for young men to serve their ends and die for them.

No.Absolutely not.Combat is nothing to glorify.YOU
raised your right hand,you have my respect.Besides,
Ive been a fan of yours since youve first scolded me.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <annia@...>
wrote:

> Salve,
>
> I really hope you're not implying that those of use

who have served and

> didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...
>
>
> > Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in

combat - and yet,

> > they scream for young men to serve their ends and

die for them.

>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve,

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 11:38:05AM -0500, annia@... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I really hope you're not implying that those of use who have served and
> didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.

Please show me where you have seen me say or imply that. If you can, I
will certainly apologize for the misperception that my words would have
fostered.

Should I quote the endless battles and wars in which the soldiers have
served honorably while serving the insane, idiotic, or misdirected ends
for which their leaders were striving? Or can you think of a few - or a
few dozen - yourself?

Soldiers do the job on the ground; they do not get to make the
high-level decisions that put them into a given combat theater. If you
have mistaken my denunciation of the politicians who have placed our
soldiers in a death pit from vile motives with the actions of the
soldiers themselves within that pit, then you have misunderstood what I
have written, and I apologize for not having been clear enough.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Docendo discimus.
We learn by teaching.
(After Seneca Philosophus, "homines dum docent discunt" - men learn while they
teach.)

When I do depart it will not be for good, I imagine my
posts might become less frequent.I love NR & sometimes
my tongue slips but Im full of love not hatred.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <p.bird@...>
wrote:

> Salve, Marce Flavi Fides!
>
> If you're unhappy in your present situation, you're

doing the right thing!

> But stay with Nova Roma! I always enjoy your pithy,

common-sense,

> down-to-earth comments and would miss them if they

stopped arriving. And I

> write as the son of a policeman who died in the line

of duty.

>
> Take care and vale optime.
>
> S Pontius Pilatus Barbatus
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

> Of raymond fuentes
> Sent: 19 November 2005 14:11
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...
>
>
>
> I fight a losing battle with the left everyday as a
> policeman and I am miserable doing it.I am more
> comfortable fighting amongst the right...I fear for
> the West
> --- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mjk@...>
> wrote:
> > Salve M. Flavi Fide,
> >
> > I think everyone here would rather see you stay in
> NR. I just wanted
> > to ask you how you think things would be different
> in the us army as
> > far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned?

I

> see many of your
> > liberal American senators with serious clout,
> spouting off with views
> > totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex-

marines

> and army or navy.
> > A few of our girls I know and respect very much in
> NR are ex army,
> > one in the navy yet and I believe another had been
> to the middle east
> > yet they are liberal at times in their views.
> >
> > Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't

be

> facing or
> > fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'll be far

more

> conservative,
> > tenacious and nastier with their words and actions
> and far to the
> > right of Atilla The Hun.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius
> Lentulus
> > <cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fidei salutem:
> > >
> > > I don't understand why do you want to leave

us.

> If you feel
> > yourself Roman, as you' ve written many times,

you

> belong in the New
> > Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, I

have

> to ask the
> > question whether you are indeed a devoted Roman
> citizen. Do not care
> > for other citizens' personal opinion: you are a
> Nova Roman, a
> > citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave
> us, you won't be
> > more... Please consider that!
> > >

=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve,

I think it's because you faulted the president for not having been in
combat, which actually isn't a fault. I've never been in combat either, but
I served faithfully for 3 years, and I'm planning to go back in after
college. If I never see combat, I will consider it a good thing, not
something that I should be faulted for if I ever go into political office.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...

> Please show me where you have seen me say or imply that. If you can, I
> will certainly apologize for the misperception that my words would have
> fostered.

Oh, and to address the _other_ point here directly:

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 11:38:05AM -0500, annia@... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I really hope you're not implying that those of use who have served and
> didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.

Unless you're a high-level politician screaming for others to spill
their blood for you, your non-combat service is not an issue - is, in
fact, completely unrelated to anything I've said here.

The "war hawks" in the government are almost exclusively non-combatants;
those who oppose them on the issue of the war are largely combat
veterans, most of them decorated.

Feel free to tell me who has more right to make decisions involving
going into combat, in your opinion. Mine is certainly made up.

http://takeittokarl.blogspot.com/2005/07/army-and-marine-vet-draw-your-own.html


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Docendo discimus.
We learn by teaching.
(After Seneca Philosophus, "homines dum docent discunt" - men learn while they
teach.)

On 11/19/05, Benjamin A. Okopnik <ben@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete, omnes -
>
> Bush lied about Iraq's involvement with the events of 9/11.
> He lied about Saddam's ties with the religious fanatics.
> He lied about the later intelligence he got about Iraq.
> He lied about Iraqi oil paying for this war.
> He lied about WMDs.
> He lied about terrorism statistics (terrorism has risen sharply in the
> recent years.)
> He lied about his military record.
> He lied about not being arrested.
> He lied about funding schools.
> He lied about Social Security.
> He lied about tax cuts.
> He lied about the AIDS funding his administration is providing.
> He lied about not knowing how intense Katrina was when it approached NO.

And he and Blair both lied about the use of chemical weapons in Iraq
Flavia Lucilla Merula

--

> Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 12:25:57PM -0500, annia@... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I think it's because you faulted the president for not having been in
> combat, which actually isn't a fault. I've never been in combat either, but
> I served faithfully for 3 years, and I'm planning to go back in after
> college. If I never see combat, I will consider it a good thing, not
> something that I should be faulted for if I ever go into political office.

I fault him and his group of war hawks for sending men and women into
combat for his own ends; for spouting endless lies that lead to their
senseless deaths.

If his stance on the military situation had been "since I know nothing
about military service - let me consult with those who do" - and Colin
Powell's opposition to going into this senseless war is well known -
then his lack of combat experience would be meaningless. As it is, he
took the decision away from those who could have made it with knowledge
and understanding, and our people are dying in a country which was never
a threat to us for his petty personal hatreds and his desire for money.

I don't despise George Bush for not having been in combat. I have made
my reasons explicit here; one of them is simply his lack of
*qualifications* for making the decisions which are now resulting in
deaths of thousands, and are creating terrorists by the planeload by
providing them with the finest combat training in the world. I despise
him for the fact that my children will be reaping what he has sown. I
despise him for his inability to create a coherent policy, or even a
coherent sentence. His lack of combat experience is only a single factor
in his inability to set that policy - and it's one that matters to a
large degree at this moment.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
When two do the same thing, it isn't the same (i.e. one can get away with doing
something while another cannot).
-- Terence, "Adelphoe". Cf. "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."

The FACT is not LEFT or RIGHT . We are there.Let our
soldiers and Marines fight.Being handcuffed as a cop
by PC rules is bad.In a war its INSANITY.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> Salve,
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 12:25:57PM -0500,

annia@... wrote:

> > Salve,
> >
> > I think it's because you faulted the president for

not having been in

> > combat, which actually isn't a fault. I've never

been in combat either, but

> > I served faithfully for 3 years, and I'm planning

to go back in after

> > college. If I never see combat, I will consider it

a good thing, not

> > something that I should be faulted for if I ever

go into political office.

>
> I fault him and his group of war hawks for sending

men and women into

> combat for his own ends; for spouting endless lies

that lead to their

> senseless deaths.
>
> If his stance on the military situation had been

"since I know nothing

> about military service - let me consult with those

who do" - and Colin

> Powell's opposition to going into this senseless war

is well known -

> then his lack of combat experience would be

meaningless. As it is, he

> took the decision away from those who could have

made it with knowledge

> and understanding, and our people are dying in a

country which was never

> a threat to us for his petty personal hatreds and

his desire for money.

>
> I don't despise George Bush for not having been in

combat. I have made

> my reasons explicit here; one of them is simply his

lack of

> *qualifications* for making the decisions which are

now resulting in

> deaths of thousands, and are creating terrorists by

the planeload by

> providing them with the finest combat training in

the world. I despise

> him for the fact that my children will be reaping

what he has sown. I

> despise him for his inability to create a coherent

policy, or even a

> coherent sentence. His lack of combat experience is

only a single factor

> in his inability to set that policy - and it's one

that matters to a

> large degree at this moment.
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
> When two do the same thing, it isn't the same (i.e.

one can get away with doing

> something while another cannot).
> -- Terence, "Adelphoe". Cf. "quod licet Iovi, non

licet bovi."


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 09:56:01AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:

> The FACT is not LEFT or RIGHT . We are there.Let our
> soldiers and Marines fight.Being handcuffed as a cop
> by PC rules is bad.In a war its INSANITY.

I agree: throwing our soldiers into combat without good intelligence
*is* insanity. Report from a man who trains our interrogators and
*gathers* the necessary intelligence:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/pecunium/151529.html


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Exitus acta probat.
The result validates the deeds.
-- Ovid, "Heroides. Cf. finis coronat opus."

Salve,

No good leader is worthless.

There are, however, somethings that can not be taught via training alone. Those experiences and skills, well they are needed. They are needed now.

Vale,

Gaia Iulia Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: annia@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


Salve,

I really hope you're not implying that those of use who have served and
didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


> Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in combat - and yet,
> they scream for young men to serve their ends and die for them.




SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scaveoli, et salvete omnes

As many posts have been presented recently lamenting the number of messages having to do with present-day internal US politics I feel I must, in good conscience, take a stand here as I have in the macroworld. To those citizens who have no interest in US politics, I beg pardon and invite you to pass this message by. To all others, read on if you will:

I go on record as agreeing with everything said in the orginal post by Scaveola; many people dance around the truth of the matter, but this is one post I feel has hit the mark squarely. I have posted my own views at various times, and not only in this forum, and I believe each and every time I have made my postion as clear as my fellow citizen here. I have no love for this administration; I feel it is made up of cowards and political opportunists out to gather as much power and money for themselves as they can before their term expires or they are hounded out of office. They lied to us to get us into a war they had no idea how to prosecute, and now they are lying to save themselves. Notice the current round of indictments and investigation going on in Washington- they aren't happening for no reason. Blood is in the water in Washington, and it's only going to get worse as the truth comes out.

For those in search of yet another source for the truth, I invite you to http://www.antiwar.com

Perhaps in ancient Rome things might have gone differently, with those in power able to dupe their citizens as to the real reasons for war or pacify them with a series of Games. It doesn't work that way in today's world- the common man is able to inform himself on world events and form his own conclusions, and figure out what to do when he finds out he's been led down a garden path to hell. Et tu, Brute?

Perhaps if Dubya hadn't been such a loser in his earlier days he wouldn't feel the need to drag an entire nation- nay, an entire world- into his own little fantasy world of self-destruction.

============================================================
From: "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@...>
Date: 2005/11/19 Sat AM 09:49:48 CST
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...

============================================================
Neither Bush nor any of his cronies have served in combat - and yet,
they scream for young men to serve their ends and die for them. I find
their endless lies to be nothing more than filthy distortions, designed
to do nothing more than stir up hate. The fact that they are wildly
successful - that over TWO THOUSAND of our men have died in a sand pit
into which those lies have lured them - should be a wakeup call to
everyone, not just here in the US but all over the world.

Bush lied about Iraq's involvement with the events of 9/11.
He lied about Saddam's ties with the religious fanatics.
He lied about the later intelligence he got about Iraq.
He lied about Iraqi oil paying for this war.
He lied about WMDs.
He lied about terrorism statistics (terrorism has risen sharply in the
recent years.)
He lied about his military record.
He lied about not being arrested.
He lied about funding schools.
He lied about Social Security.
He lied about tax cuts.
He lied about the AIDS funding his administration is providing.
He lied about not knowing how intense Katrina was when it approached NO.

He has not stopped lying from day one:
http://www.bushwatch.net/bushlies.htm

His lies have cost us thousands of American lives, they have cost us the
financial future of our descendants, and they continue to bleed us white
every day.

The top supporter of the military and of our veterans' interests,
Congressman John Murtha, has called for immediate withdrawal as the only
sane policy from this point forward - and the Bush machine has
immediately gone into overdrive to discredit and dishonor this Vietnam
veteran who fought with distinction.

I consider Bush and his entire political machine to be vile murderers.
I've never tied myself to any political party, but these days, the
Republicans are completely anathema to me for their support of him and
his policies of religious fanaticism-driven mass murders.

> What he goes to fight will endanger us all sooner or
> later if not stopped in its tracks. The USA has drawn a line in the
> sand so it won't have to be drawn in our streets.

It's a line drawn only in their own minds. I served in the US Army's
Military Intelligence branch, and I assure you that this country is
completely porous to any threat that any terrorist would care to
perpetrate on it; we have spent the money that could have gone to
*real*, in-depth defense on "security theater", on creating a show that
will calm the populace by its appearance but has provided no benefit
(and a large detriment by consuming the resources that could have been
used properly.)

yea Gods, we agree on something? Is there hope in the
world?
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <ben@...>
wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 09:56:01AM -0800, raymond

fuentes wrote:

> > The FACT is not LEFT or RIGHT . We are there.Let

our

> > soldiers and Marines fight.Being handcuffed as a

cop

> > by PC rules is bad.In a war its INSANITY.
>
> I agree: throwing our soldiers into combat without

good intelligence

> *is* insanity. Report from a man who trains our

interrogators and

> *gathers* the necessary intelligence:
>
>

http://www.livejournal.com/users/pecunium/151529.html

>
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

> Exitus acta probat.
> The result validates the deeds.
> -- Ovid, "Heroides. Cf. finis coronat opus."

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen





__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve,

I believe the charge is directed at those who use their influnce to ENSURE they never have to see combat. Today's Iraq is yesterday's Vietnam- if Dubya is now so gung-ho about sending people off to war, why wasn't he so gung-ho to go to war when it was HIS head on the chopping block? He was a fighter pilot, wasn't he? I've heard fighter pilots are supposed to be aggressive and spoiling for a fight, knowing they are the best and will not be defeated- or maybe he just didn't measure up and was scared to face the enemy face-to-face?

No, I served for 12 years between the Marine Corps and the Army- I missed out on Grenada, Beirut, Panama, and Gulf War 1. The only semblance of combat I saw my entire time was very small unit actions in the Philippines back in the mid-80's (I was in the Marines then), chasing down rebels in the hills. It's not fun being under fire, I guarantee you, but when duty calls it's time to step up to the plate and get the job done. It's not time to call Daddy to get you reassigned.

I applaud each and every service member- of every nation- who serves with honor and self-sacrifice for his people, whether they ever see combat or not. Those who wear their country's uniform for personal gain are simply contemptible. I have more respect for a brave enemy than a coward on my own side.
============================================================
From: <annia@...>
Date: 2005/11/19 Sat AM 10:38:05 CST
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...

============================================================
Salve,

I really hope you're not implying that those of use who have served and
didn't have to go into combat are somehow worthless.

Vale,

Annia Minucia-Tiberia Audens Sempronia

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 01:17:45PM -0500, Benjamin Okopnik wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 09:56:01AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:
> > The FACT is not LEFT or RIGHT . We are there.Let our
> > soldiers and Marines fight.Being handcuffed as a cop
> > by PC rules is bad.In a war its INSANITY.
>
> I agree: throwing our soldiers into combat without good intelligence
> *is* insanity. Report from a man who trains our interrogators and
> *gathers* the necessary intelligence:
>
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/pecunium/151529.html

And, to quote this _professional military interrogator_, for those who
would try to cover up for Bush and his criminal policy on prisoner
treatment:

``
I'm an interrogator, for the U.S. Army. I convince people to betray
their friends, so my friends can kill their friends. And that's OK with
me. I sleep well at night (mostly, but that's not what wakes me up and
haunts my dreams).

I hate torture. It doesn't work. I would not mentally, nor morally, be
able to sit on a jury where torture is the charge. I would be too prone
to convict. I'd want to hurt convicted torturers. I am not completely
rational on the subject.

If you doubt me, just google my name, and interrogation, or my name and
torture.

So when I say this is worse than torture, I mean it's as bad as bad can
be.

Torture warps and destroys those who use it. That's bad.

It gets bad information, which leads to bad intel, which leads to bad
decisions. That's bad.

Bad decisions leads to the wrong people getting killed. That's bad.

This is worse.

[ ... ]

''

http://www.livejournal.com/users/pecunium/151996.html


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non amo te, Sabidi, nec possum dicere quare:
hoc tantum possum dicere, non amo te.
I do not like you, Sabid, but I can't say why:
I can only say this, I do not like you.
-- Martialis, "Epigrammaton liber"

Salve,

Not being assigned to go into combat is one thing- pulling strings to ensure you never face that assignment (and subsequently lying about it) is an entirely different matter.

In my own case, while stationed in Germany, my regiment (11th Armored Cavalry Regiment in Fulda- ALLONS!) was prepositioned and ready to go down for Gulf War 1, but we instead got orders to train National Guards and Reserves to bring them up to speed before THEY went down. Does that make us any less honorable- no, obviously not. Later, when elements of the regiment were called in after the shooting ceased, my Squadron was assigned to continue our border patrol duties in Germany.

The point that is being made is that when one deliberately uses influence to ensure those orders for combat assignment never come that person is acting in a dishonorable fashion. If Dubya had been a young lieutenant in the 3507th Canteen Repair Battalion, his military record would never have been called into question, as it's doubtful he would have been sent to Vietnam to oversee canteen repairs. BUT- he chose to be a fighter pilot, one of the select few who are supposed to be some of the most aggressive, confident pilots in the world- where was that aggression and confidence put to use? Getting reassigned to Alabama, where he would be 'out of the loop' for combat rotations, had his unit been called up, that's where. He wasn't simply 'not ordered to combat'- he actively took steps to AVOID even the possibility of it. That's the difference.

Vale,
============================================================
From: <annia@...>
Date: 2005/11/19 Sat AM 11:25:57 CST
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...

============================================================

>>faulted the president for not having been in

combat, which actually isn't a fault.

Salve Scaevola,

President Bush has the only qualification necessary to send US troops into combat. He is the elected president of the USA. Who would you prefer to make this decision, the New York Times editorial board? He served honorably as a fighter pilot and had some unspoken about missions that put in harms way near Cuba and her airspace. The fact that his unit was not called into action in Vietnam was not of his making. He was ready to go if asked. Kerry on the other hand selected his duty specifically because when he picked it the swift boats were strictly used off shore where an encounter with the enemy was unheard of. It was his bad luck that they changed the sorties to in-country river patrols. Then he made damn sure to get out in only three months by using scratches as "battle wounds". I don't blame you for some of you feelings, the media is so biased it's a wonder anyone knows anything any more - for example does anyone know that 50,000 people were rescued right after Katrina hit, but all we heard was about how awful things were managed. Thank God Kerry was not made president of the US or Gore. Talk about lies - Kerry should have gotten medals for his whoppers in front of the congressional hearings in 1972. Since then he's been doing the gigolo Tango and singing FLIP, FLOP, FLIP, FLOP!!! Gore has just stated that global warming, not terrorists is the biggest threat to the planet - what a moron!

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Farewell...


Salve,

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 12:25:57PM -0500, annia@... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I think it's because you faulted the president for not having been in
> combat, which actually isn't a fault. I've never been in combat either, but
> I served faithfully for 3 years, and I'm planning to go back in after
> college. If I never see combat, I will consider it a good thing, not
> something that I should be faulted for if I ever go into political office.

I fault him and his group of war hawks for sending men and women into
combat for his own ends; for spouting endless lies that lead to their
senseless deaths.

If his stance on the military situation had been "since I know nothing
about military service - let me consult with those who do" - and Colin
Powell's opposition to going into this senseless war is well known -
then his lack of combat experience would be meaningless. As it is, he
took the decision away from those who could have made it with knowledge
and understanding, and our people are dying in a country which was never
a threat to us for his petty personal hatreds and his desire for money.

I don't despise George Bush for not having been in combat. I have made
my reasons explicit here; one of them is simply his lack of
*qualifications* for making the decisions which are now resulting in
deaths of thousands, and are creating terrorists by the planeload by
providing them with the finest combat training in the world. I despise
him for the fact that my children will be reaping what he has sown. I
despise him for his inability to create a coherent policy, or even a
coherent sentence. His lack of combat experience is only a single factor
in his inability to set that policy - and it's one that matters to a
large degree at this moment.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
When two do the same thing, it isn't the same (i.e. one can get away with doing
something while another cannot).
-- Terence, "Adelphoe". Cf. "quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi."


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

Chaps, I hate to be a bore, but may I draw your
attention to the fact that you've started having long
arguments about domestic U.S. politics again (apart
from the occasional mention of Mr. Blair, for which
I'm sure he's grateful)?

Well, time for my supper anyway, so I'll leave you to
it. :)


P.S. M. Flavi, I'm very glad to hear you're not
leaving us for good. The place would be somehow less
exciting without you around. ;)



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

Whatever makes you imagine such a tiny minority of idiots stand a snowball's in
Hell of winning without western help? The only thing that brought the Taliban
to power in one of the world's most backward countries was western arms and
internal collapse. Their own side no more likes or wants them than rational
Weaterners do their Christian equivalents. It is only if they could succeed in
uniting racist prejudice with religious that they could stand a chance of
making themselves appear protectors of the beleagured. The aim of intermittent
terrorism must be to bring this state of making Moslems feel beleagured about.
They are not even succeeding in hijacking the French feeling of exclusion from
society into more than a very French habit of burning things when you don't
like your situation. There's no difference whether somebody plants a bomb or
blows themself up with it except this: suicide bombers only do it once. And
it's a much more limitted career choice.





Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

Funny very funny. : ) Unless they win. : (


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19,2005 10:05 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...


Allah Ahkbar!

"The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists whokill
without conscience men, women and child of all faiths tobring about
> an Islamofascists state that would be hell onearth to most of the
worlds people."
>
My friend, you have the tongue of a serpent! By the beard of the
prophet, keep it wagging and I'll cut it out! -:


Peace be upon you,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> Salve my friend Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part
>
> "they'll be far more conservative, tenacious and nastier withtheir
words and actions and far to the right of Attila TheHun."
>
> "Conservatism, a general state of mind that is averse torapid
change and innovation and strives for balance and order,while
avoiding extremes."
>
> The is NOTHING conservative about Islamofascists terrorists who
kill without conscience men, women and child of all faiths tobring
about
> an Islamofascists state that would be hell on earth to most of the
worlds people.
>
> Please try and be reasonable on what you label conservative.
>
> I have also asked Marcvs Flavivs Fides to stay but I havedone so
off list. Nova Roma is big enough for ALL viewpoints, eventhe ones I
disagree with and too small for us to lose any of ourcitizens.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:48 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Farewell...
>
>
> Salve M. Flavi Fide,
>
> I think everyone here would rather see you stay in NR.I just
wanted
> to ask you how you think things would be different inthe us army
as
> far as liberal and social attitudes are concerned? Isee many of
your
> liberal American senators with serious clout, spoutingoff with
views
> totally contrary to yours on TV are all ex- marinesand army or
navy.
> A few of our girls I know and respect very much in NRare ex
army,
> one in the navy yet and I believe another had been tothe middle
east
> yet they are liberal at times in their views.
>
> Finally, if you go back to the forces, you won't befacing or
> fighting mouthy hippy liberals; they'llbe far more conservative,
> tenacious and nastierwith their words and actions and far to the
> rightof Atilla The Hun.
>
> Regards,
>
> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus CorneliusLentulus
> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus M. Flavio Fideisalutem:
> >
> > I don't understand why do you want toleave us. If you feel
> yourself Roman, asyou' ve written many times, you belong in the
New
> Rome. If you would like to leave Nova Roma, Ihave to ask the
> question whether you areindeed a devoted Roman citizen. Do not
care
> for other citizens' personal opinion: you are aNova Roman, a
> citizen of the Reborning Rome -- but if you leave us, you won't
be
> more... Please consider that!
> >
> > Cura ut valeas quam potest optime,Marce Flavi!
> >
> > CN CORN LENTVLVS
> >
> >
> > "M. Lucretius Agricola" ha scritto:
M.
> Lucretius Agricola M. Flavio Fidei s.p.d.
> >
> > I don't understand this at all.Sometimes I don't agree with
you,
> > sure, and sometimes your ideas areopposed, sure, but you
yourself
> > said you get some quiet support.Nowhere have I seen scorn
for
> you as
> > a person or a citizen.
> >
> > I personally would be pleased indeedwere you not to leave. I
feel
> > there is room for all views onmacronational issues as long
as we
> all
> > keep sight of our common interest inRomanitas.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,raymond fuentes
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > As A proud Roman &civi that is scorned by most for my
> > > pro-western approach.I leave liberal NR & return to
> > > the US ARMY as an officer.Congrats,youre rid of me.
> > >
> > > S P Q R
> > >
> > > Fidelis Ad Mortem.
> > >
> > > Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> > > Roman Citizen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> > Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> > Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> > Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae TulliaeScholasticae Senior
> > Scriba Magistri AraneariQ. Cassi Calvi Iunior
> > Sodalis SodalitatisLatinitatis
> > Latinista, ClassicusPhilologus
> >
> >---------------------------------
> > Yahoo!Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message havebeen removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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"Take care not to feel towards the inhuman as they feel towards the human" -
Marcus Aurelius.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia omnibus spd;
yes, I entirely agree with my good friend Cordus, I
don't bore you with my Libertarian views, please spare us this
tiresome discussion which I can read anywhere (left or right views)
ad nauseam on other forums.
I'm here to discuss all things Roman; now if you like
Fides I'd be happy to make an offering to Mars Ultor for you.
bene valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


Apollonius omnibus sal.

>
> Chaps, I hate to be a bore, but may I draw your
> attention to the fact that you've started having long
> arguments about domestic U.S. politics again (apart
> from the occasional mention of Mr. Blair, for which
> I'm sure he's grateful)?
>
> Well, time for my supper anyway, so I'll leave you to
> it. :)
>
>
> P.S. M. Flavi, I'm very glad to hear you're not
> leaving us for good. The place would be somehow less
> exciting without you around. ;)
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars -

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

>

Salve, Marce Cassi -

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 02:31:32PM -0500, Sensei Phil Perez wrote:
> Salve Scaevola,
>
> President Bush has the only qualification necessary to send US troops
> into combat. He is the elected president of the USA.

I must admit to being surprised, amice; much more so if it had been
anyone but you making this statement. Does this mean that your martial
arts students become "qualified" to beat up little old ladies and take
their wallets? Or is there perhaps a *moral* dimension to being strong,
a duty that is an inextricable concomitant of that strength? How,
exactly, do you define honorable behavior?

I'll quote a USENET poster with whom I agree on the subject. Perhaps you
will find a few points here with which you agree with, as well.

``
Honor is about being strong, and controling that strength for the benefit
of others. It's about being worthy of being trusted. It's about having
rules that mean that, even though you have the ability to hurt people, you
choose not to hurt people, as much as you possibly can.

It's about letting what you say be true, and making sure that what you
promise happens. It's about living up to your word. It's about
protecting those in your care. It's about letting one's gentleness temper
one's capacity for violence, and about only letting violence happen in the
service of gentleness.

It's about believing that there's something more important than your own
personal immediate comfort.

-- Xiphias Gladius
''

> Who would you
> prefer to make this decision, the New York Times editorial board?

If they are qualified by their combat, educational, and political
experience, certainly. Otherwise, no.

> He
> served honorably as a fighter pilot and had some unspoken about
> missions that put in harms way near Cuba and her airspace. The fact
> that his unit was not called into action in Vietnam was not of his
> making. He was ready to go if asked.

I'm afraid that's incorrect. Bush lied about his service record; there's
no such thing as "unspoken about missions" that long after the fact,
other than as a vague excuse propagated by his propaganda machine. It's
the standard Bush-and-Rove tactic of claiming unprovable evidence that
can't be revealed because of National security or terrorists.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush's_military_service/External_Links_2004
(shortcut link: http://tinyurl.com/dflzm )

> Kerry on the other hand selected
> his duty specifically because when he picked it the swift boats were
> strictly used off shore where an encounter with the enemy was unheard
> of.

[blink] I gather Kerry was his own commander when he "chose" his
mission? Interesting.

> It was his bad luck that they changed the sorties to in-country
> river patrols. Then he made damn sure to get out in only three months
> by using scratches as "battle wounds".

All of the above is, of course, extremely biased language that does not
represent the truth in the slightest but instead distorts it in the way
that you claim media distort Bush's claims. I'll be happy to answer it
if and when it's presented in a manner that reflects reality.

> I don't blame you for some of
> you feelings, the media is so biased it's a wonder anyone knows
> anything any more -

I don't watch much TV, Marce Cassi, whether liberal- or
conservative-biased. I do my own research - mostly based on the reports
of the people who were there for the action, or reports from sources as
unbiased as I can determine based on my own judgement. I'm one of those
folks the politicians of all stripes fear worse than death: I'm a man
who uses the means of *direct* sources of information, available via the
Internet and unstoppable and uncontrollable by any political machine.
I've been on the Net since the early days - before it _was_ the Net -
and I _know_ why politicians are terrified of it. It spells the death of
their ability to distort, to hide, to obscure - and this is a source
that is becoming available to a large majority of the world. About to
become nearly universal, in fact:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1116/p04s01-ussc.html?s=u

The media have caught on to this a long time ago; they do, after all,
deal in information. Many of the large media outlets have cleaned up
their acts - even Washington Post has been known to tell the anti-Bush
truth on occasion, these days, although Fox News remains the den of
lying idiots that it always was. The claim of "lying media", with the
exception of Fox and a vanishingly small number of others, is becoming
more and more /outre/ - more like fairy tales than reality, and would be
much, much better for proof than as a bald statement which proves
nothing.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo.
My conscience means more to me than all speech.
-- Cicero, "Epistulae ad Atticum"

Avete, omnes -

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 10:34:55AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:
> yea Gods, we agree on something? Is there hope in the
> world?

On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 10:34:55AM -0800, raymond fuentes wrote:
> yea Gods, we agree on something? Is there hope in the
> world?

Of course. I hope that we agree on 'a' being the first letter of the
English alphabet; I'm certain that you will not contest that the Sun
rises in the East; I have little doubt that you will agree that

____________
/ 2
-b + \/ b - 4 a c
x = ----------------------------------
2 a

is accurate. Where we appear to disagree is on the meanings of freedom,
democracy, and duty.

The sky is not falling. If it appears that way, it's only because we're
*ascending.* :)


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Non omne quod licet honestum est.
Not everything that is permitted is honest.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta