Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

I too believe Consul Laenas wrote in good faith, I have no reason to believe
otherwise. I too get lost in my own mind, so I fully understand :)

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 12/4/05, gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano P. Minuciae-Tiberiae
> Straboni quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> My apologies; I had overlooked that sentence in the consul's
> statement; in my head I read it as I suggested in my post to Pompeia
> Strabo. My head is a fascinating and fun-filled place, but
> occasionally things get lost in it.
>
> I still believe the consul to have written in good faith, and only
> hope that that consideration will be given him.
>
> I apologoze to Pompeia Strabo if I spoke too hastily.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberi Pauline

I would caution against rushing to legislate on every incident that
arises. That is not what has happened with this proposed law, as
there have been several resignations of magistrates over the years,
due to varied reasons. I wish to consider whether this proposed law
addresses most cases that have occured in the past.

All auctoritas inside Nova Roma resides with its cives when duly
assembled in comitia. By the elective process, the Quirites grant a
magistrate the authority to temporarily employ their auctoritas on
their behalf. A magistrate is to serve all cives in the exercise of
his or her duties. There is a compact created by this elective
process, so when a magistrate publically announces his or her
resignation, he or she has ended the agreement that was held between
the magistrate and the Quirites.

I am not sure everyone would agree with Cordus' explanation that by
using the word "announces" this proposed law closes every gap in
interpretation. If a person recants a resignation of citizenship
within the allotted days, then, it can still be argued, that
announcement of resignation was rescinded. I agree with the
interpretation that Cordus has offered in his explanation. Not
everything has to be spelled out, and practice can set precedent in
the way that the law will be enforced.

I support the provision that a magistrate who would lose his or her
office through this proposed law should be allowed to stand again in
the ensuing election. Let the Quirites decide.

Provision I. covers one concern I have.

Lex Popillia de Magistratu Eiurando

I. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy shall
immediately and irrevocably cease to hold that
magistracy.

It is possible to hold offices at the provincial level as well as
with the central level, and to hold additional offices such as
lictor or sacredos. As written, I take this provision to mean that
only the particular office one resigns from, "that magistracy," is
intended to be forfeit. It should not be held against an individual
who resigns from one office that it impairs his or her ability to
hold other offices. That understanding I think is sufficiently
stated in the proposed law.

With these understandings I therefore support the proposed Lex
Popillia de Magistratu Eiurando.

Vale optime
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:

>
> Salve M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et al
>
> As we are currently discussing a Lex that will be proposed to

regulate the resignation of Magistrates would you be so kind as to
give us you views on the subject.

>
> I invite all the candidates to share your views on the issue.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marcushoratius<mailto:mhoratius@s...>
> To:

ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ComitiaPlebisTributa@yaho
ogroups.com>

> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 3:56 PM
> Subject: [CPT] Candidacy for Tribunus Plebis
>
>
> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Tribunis Plebis et Quiritibus

omnes

> salutem plurinam dicit.
>
>
> Previously in Nova Roma I was honored to serve as Tribunus

Plebis

> along with my colleague Titus Labienus Fortunatus, and also as
> Flamen Cerealis. Out of filial piety for my paterfamilias, N.
> Moravius Vado, that most honorable man, I felt compelled to

resign

> my office when he and other honorable members of the Senate
> renounced their citizenship. After leaving Nova Roma I twice

served

> as consul of the Societas Via Romana, twice as rector of the
> Collegium Religiosum, as Senator, Iurisconsultus, Pontifex

Maximas,

> Flamen Cerealis, augur, and as of late was a member of the

Consilium

> that drafted new regulae for that fine organization. I also

serve

> on the Board of Advisors to the Temple Religio Romana of

California,

> along with Pontifex Antonius Gryllus Graecus, as well as serve

as a

> moderator for the Temple's email list. In addition I serve as

an

> advisor and counselor for other religio Romana groups. At the
> Academia Thules I have served as a praeceptor on Roman rituals.

The

> Senate of Nova Roma even passed a special resolution in

recognition

> for the work that I performed at the Academia, even though at

the

> time I was not yet a civis. Recently I have been appointed

Caput

> Generis Doctrinae Religionis Romanae at Academia Thules. Since
> rejoining Nova Roma I have served as Scriba Censoris Census

Primus

> CFBQ as head of the Officina Census that performed the recent

Census

> 2005, and I have accepted the appointment as Procurator in

provincia

> Lacus Magni offered me by propraetor Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus.
>
> Formerly I served as an intelligence analyst in the US Army. I

have

> been a land surveyor, instructor, civil servant, and restaurant
> owner. Currently I am retired, following complications from
> injuries I received while serving in the military. I am

married,

> for the past thirty two years, and have fathered a daughter and

five

> sons. Having already lost three sons in the early years of

their

> lives, my youngest son now serves in US Army intelligence in

Iraq.

> My educational background has been in history (BA), land

surveying

> (AAS), and in education with a specialty in mathematics. I am
> currently a member of the ACLU, NOW, the Sons of Italy, and have
> previously been a member of such advocacy and charitable
> organizations as the March of Dimes and the American Heart
> Association. In my spare time I have been a contributor to the
> University of Ottawa's update of the "Encyclopedia of Gods and
> Goddesses," providing articles on the divinities of Italic

tribes,

> and have also been consulted in other research projects related

to

> the religious traditions of Roma Antiqua and Italia Archaica.
>
> Today I enter the Forum dressed in toga candida to humbly offer

once

> more my experience and service to the Quirites Novae Romae as a
> candidate for the office of Tribunus Plebis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Salve Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus presumptive Consul of Nova Roma

Thank you for responding in a reasonable manner to the current discussion.

You said "I believe what Pompeia Minucia Tiberia, and perhaps others are trying to
insinuate (and I do not speak for them), is that it is one thing to ask
others to stand for office and it is another to ask people to stand for
office that are going to stand for office and let another pull their
strings, and speak for them."

You mean like members of a political alliance?

It seems that Po and to some degree you will not take my word for the fact that
I did not ask him to stand but that I am glad he has. No one in Nova Roma can
get elected anything without help.


There are four candidates running for Praetor and while I believe that I am the best of the four
and have asked to be elected by the citizens of Nova Roma I will be serving with a colleague.
When I was out campaigning I asked Gaius Geminius Germanus for his support for Praetor.
In fact I have asked just about every citizens in Nova Roma that had a public e-mail for
their support as well. In response to my request for support he informed me that he too was
standing for Praetor. He asked if I would support him.

Having worked as Quaestors together and having a good working relationship and given the
fact that the other two candidates are members of the Libra Alliance and were supporting each
other I said yes and posted an endorsement of him.

It seems that its ok for the Libra Alliance to endorse each other
but if two independent candidates join forces it's the end of the Republic : )

You said "I would very much like to hear why Gaius Geminius Germanus wants to be
praetor, and how he will do."

So would I and I have told him that on a number of occasions.

The main accusation was that I was running his campaign and this some how made him my client
and yet the three people I am debating in the forum are two Consul-elects and a former Consul/Censor
and not my opponents for Praetor.

I am am here in the forum campaigning and Gaius Geminius Germanus is not the only Praetor candidate missing in action.

Best of luck as Consul

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: David Kling<mailto:tau.athanasios@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Asking other Citizens to Serve


Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

I believe what Pompeia Minucia Tiberia, and perhaps others are trying to
insinuate (and I do not speak for them), is that it is one thing to ask
others to stand for office and it is another to ask people to stand for
office that are going to stand for office and let another pull their
strings, and speak for them.

The problem with Gaius Geminius Germanus is that his announcement as a
candidate was two very short sentances. Several of us in Nova Roma do not
know him, and are not aware of what he is capable of. It seems problematic
to support such a candidate based on one persons endorsement. Especially,
in light of the fact that Praetor is a window into the Senate, and we have
had Praetors in the past who have not been communicative to the populace.
We don't need Praetors who are going to issue two sentance statements, and
remain silent. Surely this man can let the people know why he would do a
good job? Surely he can list some of his qualifications.

The problem is not that someone was asked to run by someone else. The
potential problem is that someone *might* be only running at the request of
another, to support another, and to make it easier for another if both are
elected (ie., by not being an independant magistrate). This, I believe, is
the point others were trying to make.

I would very much like to hear why Gaius Geminius Germanus wants to be
praetor, and how he will do.

Vale;

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 12/3/05, Tim Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova Roma who
> said in part
>
> "I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not running
> solely at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave the
> candidate in question to answer that"
>
> Whither Gaius Geminius Germanus speaks for himself is as you say up to him
> but
>
> I will comment. No I did not ask him to stand but what if I had, what's
> wrong with that ?
> I have asked a number of people to stand for office. Some have said yes
> and others have said no.
> While others I asked have decided to stand for a different office
> then what I had advised them to stand for.
> So unless I am missing something it should be the duty of EVERY Nova Roman
> to ask others to serve
> and to offer themselves as candidates.
>
> Earlier this week unbeknownst to the other both Caius Minucius Scaevola
> and
> I were hard at work looking for a candidate to stand for Magister
> Aranearius.
> Instead of have no candidates for this most important office we each found
> a Nova Roman
> willing to stand and serve. Regardless of who wins this race Nova Roma
> wins.
>
> Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova Roma
> have you asked anybody to stand and serve? If you did THANK YOU
>
> If not Why not?
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Praetor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Cato amice; salvete omnes.

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 01:01:01PM -0000, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> C. Equitius Cato P. Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni Q. Popillio Laeno
> quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> Pompeia Strabo, you are absolutely correct when you say that I have
> been at this for the past year. My feelings about resignation have
> never been hidden, and I am not going to change them.
>
> I think you are being a bit unfair to the consul, however. The way I
> read his post was simply that, in the course of his deliberations, he
> spoke to members of the Senate. No-where did he state that the senate
> agreed with him either in any specific individual case or as a body
> --- just that he had included some senators in the course of his
> thinking about the issue.

My major concern in this issue is the timing of this proposal. I'm
trying, as hard as possible, to *not* perceive Consul Laenas' actions as
taking advantage of Consul Caesar's absence... and I'm afraid that I'm
failing. Had he stated "I'm taking this action - and here is a
description of the extreme emergency that compels me to do it *right
now*, while my colleague is medically incapacitated and unable to
speak", I would have considered the nature of that emergency, and have
made my decision - as would everyone else here - about the necessity of
doing so. As it stands, there _is_ no stated emergency... and the whole
process is beginning to acquire a rather unpleasant smell.

I invite Consul Laenas to tell us all about what this state of emergency
is. If I have been unfair in characterizing this as a rush job designed
to avoid Consul Caesar's input by taking advantage of his illness, I
would be very glad to hear of it and have my misperception corrected.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Aquila non captat muscas.
The eagle doesn't capture flies.
-- N/A

Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova

No Senator I am not being defensive. You made a near accusations that by asking of
citizens to stand for election I was doing something un-Roman.

Senator you have also refused to answer my question Have you asked anybody to stand?

You said

Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
blessing to the republic.

Is that a yes or a no? Does recommendation mean endorsement?

You also said "This is, however, why I likely will not vote for you Galerius"

Likely not vote for me before?

Before this post you had already endorsement the other two candidates so I would
assume it is very unlikely that you would vote for me.

That and the fact you are all part of the Libra Political Alliance.

Talk about a client/ patron milieu that�s the Libra Political Alliance

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Candidate for Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:57 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asking other Citizens to Serve


---Good Morning Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, "Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m<mailto:spqr753@m>...> wrote:
>
> Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova
Roma who said in part
>
> "I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
running
> solely at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave the
> candidate in question to answer that"
>
> Whither Gaius Geminius Germanus speaks for himself is as you say
up to him but
>
> I will comment. No I did not ask him to stand but what if I
had, what's wrong with that ?



Pompeia: Rather disproportionately defensive now, don't you think
Galeri?.....over one comment and question. There is nothing wrong
with asking him to stand in itself! My, I have certainly ruffled
your feathers..

The key word here I don't think you applied is 'soley', Galerius.

If this apparently rather bashful Praetoral candidate is running
for other reasons, service to the republic, etc. as *well* as being
a running mate who thinks very much like you, apparently, then I
suppose this is -somewhat- more comforting. Umm, it would sure be
even -more- comforting if he would speak about his own reasoning and
platform, as opposed to your doing it for him.

I would venture to say he might get a few more votes.

I don't think people will just up and vote for him, because he has
the same agenda as you, and allows you to speak for him...you say
he's cool, he then he must be....no...no....

And you get defensive when I am so bold as to say so? Well, this is
not totally atypical.


This is, however, why I likely will not vote for you Galerius: your
consistently demonstrated inability to cope well with other opinions
throughout the year.


The people you propose to serve would like someone who will look at
their needs and entertain their opinions no? But... it seems you
know best and that is that.

I believe it was a citizen in NR who coined the term 'Nanny knows
best' for this sor of philosophy of service to the populace.




> I have asked a number of people to stand for office. Some have
said yes and others have said no.
> While others I asked have decided to stand for a different office
then what I had advised them to stand for.
> So unless I am missing something it should be the duty of EVERY
Nova Roman to ask others to serve
> and to offer themselves as candidates.


Pompeia: That's wonderful Galerius. Really, good for you.


>
> Earlier this week unbeknownst to the other both Caius Minucius
Scaevola and
> I were hard at work looking for a candidate to stand for Magister
Aranearius.
> Instead of have no candidates for this most important office we
each found a Nova Roman
> willing to stand and serve. Regardless of who wins this race Nova
Roma wins.

>
> Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova Roma
> have you asked anybody to stand and serve? If you did THANK YOU


Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
blessing to the republic.

...... but I will not ask anyone to stand for office, then run their
campaign for them, making statements of 'we will do this and we'll
do that' akin to a Praetoral 'Little Me'....

I do not advocate a clientalia/patronis milieu so I don't make moves
that might naturally promote such, therefore lending to corruption
of government.

Am I saying that Geminius is your client? No. I am just saying that
it's got major potential to look that way, I'm afraid.

Someone should send a mail chariot out to Geminius' camp and
advise him that he should issue some independent statements.


Valete!
Pompeia
C.CVRIVO SATVRNINO TITVS OCTAVIVS PIVS PRAETORIBVS 2759 A.V.C.



If not Why not?




>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Praetor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y>...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:17 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius Geminius Germanus for Praetor
>
>
> ---Salve Marce Octavi et Salvete Omnes:
>
> I haven't taken the time to formally endorse any candidate save
> Tullia Scholastica for Rogator, but let me take the time to say
that
> I too shall be voting for Octavius Pius. He will make an
> outstanding Praetor.
>
> I shall be voting for C. Curius Saturninus as well.
>
>
> I realize that the concept of two Praetors working together is
> appealing, but the concept of one Praetoral candidate telling
the
> populace definitively what the other will 'do' makes me a bit
> uncomfortable. How can one endorse a platform that the candidate
has
> not presented in the first place..hmmm
>
> I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
running
> soley at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave the
> candidate in question to answer that.
>
> Valete,
> Pompeia
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, Matt Hucke <hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > As colleagues Gaius Geminius Germanus and I will endeavor
to
> fulfill the constitutional
> > > duty to "administer the law " in a judicial and unbiased
manner
> and will monitor the main
> > > list of Nova Roma in the same way. We will do so without
regard
> to individuals and will
> > > strive to apply the law equally .
> > >
> > > As Praetor Gaius Geminius Germanus will endeavor to perform
all
> other duties of his
> > > office according to the best of his abilities and
understanding
> and in adherence to the
> > > Constitution, and laws of Nova Roma .
> >
> > Will he? We haven't had any statement of such from the
candidate
> himself; his
> > declaration of candidacy consisted of only two sentences, in
which
> both his own name
> > and "Quaestor" were spelled incorrectly. Surely an applicant
for
> the Praetorship -
> > and admission to the Senate - should have a resum�� more than
an
> inch long.
> >
> > I will vote for Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, whose history
in
> Nova Roma is just
> > as long by the calendar, but far more impressive. Titus
Octavius
> has served well
> > as Quaestor, Magister Aranearius, Accensus and scriba to
several
> senior magistrates,
> > and in several provincial offices.
> >
> > Praetors have jurisdiction over the mailing list. The ideal
> candidate is one who
> > participates regularly in list discussions, and who is even-
> tempered, dedicated,
> > and able to write well. Titus Octavius is all of these.
> >
> > I could not be more pleased in a candidate for Praetor.
> >
> > TITUS OCTAVIUS PIUS FOR PRAETOR!
> >
> > Vale,
> > M. Octavius Germanicus, Consular.
> >
> > --
> > hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...
> > http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/<http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/>>
> >
> > "The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than
the
> > voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites

Any emails sent to a scriba are intended for the magistrate he or
she serves. It is not the position of a scriba to decide whether
such communications should be made public. I apologize if I gave
the impression that I might post the emails on my own. I do not do
that without permission of the author, or the permission of an
authority. What I had done previously was forward pertinent
information to both censores, not just to the censor I was working
for, with the full understanding that the communications were
received under their authority and not my own. The censores are the
only ones who can decide the disposition of any communications
received by their offices.

Many of the emails I received over the years were private
communications, some specifying that the author wished them to
remain private. I have always honored such requests, even when a
question of privacy was only implied. When in the past I have
received information of a serious nature I have contacted authorites
with a request that they directly contact the source of information.

Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@c...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes, et salve Scaevola,
>
> Earlier, M. Horatius wrote:
>
> >>Since those emails were sent to me in my official capacity as

head of

> >>the Officina Census, they are public records, should you wish

that I

> >>post them for all cives to read what people have to say about

you.

> >>They do after all pertain to this year's issue as to why so many

have

> >>left Nova Roma.
>
> Caius Minucius Scaevola replied:
> > Since they are public records, I would greatly appreciate it if

you

> > could post either a URL or the files themselves.
>
> I think that Horatius erred in his statement that replies to the

census

> are matters of public record. In Nova Roma communications with

the

> censors have always enjoyed an assumption of privacy. I have

already

> written privately to Horatius and my colleague Quintilianus about

this

> matter, but since things seem to be heating up in public I feel

the need

> to interpose my Censorial authority here.
>
> Unless a citizen or former citizen has given explicit permission

for

> their communications to the censors office to be made public, I

will not

> allow such communications to be made public. I will, if

necessary, use

> all options available to me under law to insure this.
>
> This is not to excuse the actions of Q. Fabius Maximus, which I

consider

> deplorable. Rather, it is to preserve the privacy rights of

others, who

> I suspect were communicating with an assumption of privacy.
>
> Valete,
>
> -- Marinus
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

Perhaps I was too harsh in response to you, thank you for the
clarification. It seems that Gaius Geminius Germanus does his campaign an
injustice by being silent. It would serve him well to engage the citizenry,
and in the least to answer some of the questions proposed to candidates --
as you have done.

Good luck to you as well.

Vale;

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 12/4/05, Tim Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus presumptive Consul of Nova Roma
>
> Thank you for responding in a reasonable manner to the current discussion.
>
> You said "I believe what Pompeia Minucia Tiberia, and perhaps others are
> trying to
> insinuate (and I do not speak for them), is that it is one thing to ask
> others to stand for office and it is another to ask people to stand for
> office that are going to stand for office and let another pull their
> strings, and speak for them."
>
> You mean like members of a political alliance?
>
> It seems that Po and to some degree you will not take my word for the fact
> that
> I did not ask him to stand but that I am glad he has. No one in Nova Roma
> can
> get elected anything without help.
>
>
> There are four candidates running for Praetor and while I believe that I
> am the best of the four
> and have asked to be elected by the citizens of Nova Roma I will be
> serving with a colleague.
> When I was out campaigning I asked Gaius Geminius Germanus for his support
> for Praetor.
> In fact I have asked just about every citizens in Nova Roma that had a
> public e-mail for
> their support as well. In response to my request for support he informed
> me that he too was
> standing for Praetor. He asked if I would support him.
>
> Having worked as Quaestors together and having a good working relationship
> and given the
> fact that the other two candidates are members of the Libra Alliance and
> were supporting each
> other I said yes and posted an endorsement of him.
>
> It seems that its ok for the Libra Alliance to endorse each other
> but if two independent candidates join forces it's the end of the
> Republic : )
>
> You said "I would very much like to hear why Gaius Geminius Germanus wants
> to be
> praetor, and how he will do."
>
> So would I and I have told him that on a number of occasions.
>
> The main accusation was that I was running his campaign and this some how
> made him my client
> and yet the three people I am debating in the forum are two Consul-elects
> and a former Consul/Censor
> and not my opponents for Praetor.
>
> I am am here in the forum campaigning and Gaius Geminius Germanus is not
> the only Praetor candidate missing in action.
>
> Best of luck as Consul
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Praetor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--Pompeia Minucia Tiberia G. Equitiae Catoni g. Fabio Buteo Modiano
Quiritiboque S.P.D.



Actually, to clear the air, I did in my original discourse to the
Consul in #40239 that he was perhaps not -intentionally- attempting
to misapply data. Clearly I have given him the benefit of the doubt.



But......... as often happens.... rather than carrying the original
thread as the basis of his reply, Equitius Cato will open up a whole
new thread, saying this and that, that I am somehow misconducting
myself, complete with misquote on what was said by the Consul in the
first place, and subsequent chiding of my supposed reaction to
something the Consul did not say or imply.

Po shakes head vigorously......

Personally, Equitius Cato, I think it is you who has misrepresented
the Consul to his detriment, not I.

If the people like your ideas Equitius Cato and those of others,
then so be it. I prefer a bit of elacrity in any new legislation,
and even more so due to recent Census data reports...the numbers
alone in the absence of names and events concern me.

But this is -me- and that is -you-.

The main theme of my concern is that the people should have a choice
in his divided and passioned issue. This is not being the hallmark
of wickness, atleast that I am aware, Equitius Cato.

valete


- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@g...>
wrote:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Gaius Popillius Laenas did indicate:
>
> "This issue arose early this year. I asked for the input of the

Senate, my

> staff, and my colleague. Basically there are two ways to approach

it: a

> grace period allowing for reconsideration after a
> magistrate announces a resignation, or resignation effectively

immediately.

>
> The majority of the Senate appears to favor effective immediately.

My

> colleague, Consul Caesar, favors a grace period because he feels an
> immediately effective resignation is harsh and may cause us to

lose good

> magistrates who just experience a period of frustration."
>
> If Laenas had spoken to only a few senators then he should have

said, "I

> asked for the input of some senators..." and likewise, "The

majority of the

> senators that I spoke with appear to favor.."
>
> I assumed that the Consul had convened the senate to discuss this

issue, and

> that the majority of the senators favored an immediate resignation

policy,

> exactly as the Consul had indicated. If this is not true, then

why was it

> presented in such a way as to state that the senate agrees with

Leanas while

> Consul Caesar disagrees with the senate.
>
> If it was stated that Laenas believes in an immediate resignation

policy,

> and the senate too agrees in an immediate resignation policy, and

that

> Consul Caesar agrees in a grace period then it has to follow that

according

> to his words Laenas wrote that the senate agrees with him and that

the

> senate disagrees with Caesar.
>
> You stated, "No-where did he state that the senate agreed with him

either in

> any specific individual case or as a body --- just that he had

included some

> senators in the course of his
> thinking about the issue." This is simply not true. Leanas used

the

> phrase, "I asked for the input of the Senate" and "The majority of

the

> Senate." The use of the word SENATE indicates the collective body

of

> senators. The singular senator would indicate individual senators.
>
> I think Laenas does imply that he has senate support for his

proposed Lex.

> This may be true, as I am not a senator and am not aware of what

goes on in

> the senate. Pompeia Strabo is a senator, and as such is more

informed to

> the inner workings of the senate. Additionally, I do not believe

Leanas

> made his statement with malicious intent! I don't believe he

posted what he

> did as you say, but he very may well have intended to post as you

say.

>
> Vale:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On 12/4/05, gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Equitius Cato P. Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni Q. Popillio Laeno
> > quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > Salvete omnes.
> >
> > Pompeia Strabo, you are absolutely correct when you say that I

have

> > been at this for the past year. My feelings about resignation

have

> > never been hidden, and I am not going to change them.
> >
> > I think you are being a bit unfair to the consul, however. The

way I

> > read his post was simply that, in the course of his

deliberations, he

> > spoke to members of the Senate. No-where did he state that the

senate

> > agreed with him either in any specific individual case or as a

body

> > --- just that he had included some senators in the course of his
> > thinking about the issue.
> >
> > Now it just so happens that the consul and I agree on the basic
> > premise that resignations should be effective immediately; I

know you

> > disagree with this, and I fear that you have let your dislike

for it

> > (and the fact that I have been so vocal about supporting this

view)

> > cloud your approach to the consul's post.
> >
> > I don't think the consul would like to be painted with the same

brush

> > as me, so I encourage you to fire away at me, but do not look for
> > injury where none is present. It is neither responsible nor

fair, two

> > attributes the Republic will be looking for in its consuls for

2759.

> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato.

Salvete omnes.

On a sort of tangent, what exactly is wrong with the client/patron
relationship? It was one of the strongest, most useful, and powerful
relationship systems ever used by civilized society.

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:
>
> Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova
>
> No Senator I am not being defensive. You made a near accusations
that by asking of
> citizens to stand for election I was doing something un-Roman.
>
> Senator you have also refused to answer my question Have you asked
anybody to stand?
>
> You said
>
> Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
> where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
> out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
> blessing to the republic.
>
> Is that a yes or a no? Does recommendation mean endorsement?
>
> You also said "This is, however, why I likely will not vote for
you Galerius"
>
> Likely not vote for me before?
>
> Before this post you had already endorsement the other two
candidates so I would
> assume it is very unlikely that you would vote for me.
>
> That and the fact you are all part of the Libra Political Alliance.
>
> Talk about a client/ patron milieu that's the Libra Political Alliance
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Praetor
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:57 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asking other Citizens to Serve
>
>
> ---Good Morning Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!:
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>,
"Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m<mailto:spqr753@m>...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova
> Roma who said in part
> >
> > "I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
> running
> > solely at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave the
> > candidate in question to answer that"
> >
> > Whither Gaius Geminius Germanus speaks for himself is as you say
> up to him but
> >
> > I will comment. No I did not ask him to stand but what if I
> had, what's wrong with that ?
>
>
>
> Pompeia: Rather disproportionately defensive now, don't you think
> Galeri?.....over one comment and question. There is nothing wrong
> with asking him to stand in itself! My, I have certainly ruffled
> your feathers..
>
> The key word here I don't think you applied is 'soley', Galerius.
>
> If this apparently rather bashful Praetoral candidate is running
> for other reasons, service to the republic, etc. as *well* as being
> a running mate who thinks very much like you, apparently, then I
> suppose this is -somewhat- more comforting. Umm, it would sure be
> even -more- comforting if he would speak about his own reasoning and
> platform, as opposed to your doing it for him.
>
> I would venture to say he might get a few more votes.
>
> I don't think people will just up and vote for him, because he has
> the same agenda as you, and allows you to speak for him...you say
> he's cool, he then he must be....no...no....
>
> And you get defensive when I am so bold as to say so? Well, this is
> not totally atypical.
>
>
> This is, however, why I likely will not vote for you Galerius: your
> consistently demonstrated inability to cope well with other opinions
> throughout the year.
>
>
> The people you propose to serve would like someone who will look at
> their needs and entertain their opinions no? But... it seems you
> know best and that is that.
>
> I believe it was a citizen in NR who coined the term 'Nanny knows
> best' for this sor of philosophy of service to the populace.
>
>
>
>
> > I have asked a number of people to stand for office. Some have
> said yes and others have said no.
> > While others I asked have decided to stand for a different office
> then what I had advised them to stand for.
> > So unless I am missing something it should be the duty of EVERY
> Nova Roman to ask others to serve
> > and to offer themselves as candidates.
>
>
> Pompeia: That's wonderful Galerius. Really, good for you.
>
>
> >
> > Earlier this week unbeknownst to the other both Caius Minucius
> Scaevola and
> > I were hard at work looking for a candidate to stand for Magister
> Aranearius.
> > Instead of have no candidates for this most important office we
> each found a Nova Roman
> > willing to stand and serve. Regardless of who wins this race Nova
> Roma wins.
>
> >
> > Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova Roma
> > have you asked anybody to stand and serve? If you did THANK YOU
>
>
> Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
> where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
> out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
> blessing to the republic.
>
> ...... but I will not ask anyone to stand for office, then run their
> campaign for them, making statements of 'we will do this and we'll
> do that' akin to a Praetoral 'Little Me'....
>
> I do not advocate a clientalia/patronis milieu so I don't make moves
> that might naturally promote such, therefore lending to corruption
> of government.
>
> Am I saying that Geminius is your client? No. I am just saying that
> it's got major potential to look that way, I'm afraid.
>
> Someone should send a mail chariot out to Geminius' camp and
> advise him that he should issue some independent statements.
>
>
> Valete!
> Pompeia
> C.CVRIVO SATVRNINO TITVS OCTAVIVS PIVS PRAETORIBVS 2759 A.V.C.
>
>
>
> If not Why not?
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Candidate for Praetor
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
>
pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y>...>

> > To:
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>>

> > Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:17 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius Geminius Germanus for Praetor
> >
> >
> > ---Salve Marce Octavi et Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > I haven't taken the time to formally endorse any candidate save
> > Tullia Scholastica for Rogator, but let me take the time to say
> that
> > I too shall be voting for Octavius Pius. He will make an
> > outstanding Praetor.
> >
> > I shall be voting for C. Curius Saturninus as well.
> >
> >
> > I realize that the concept of two Praetors working together is
> > appealing, but the concept of one Praetoral candidate telling
> the
> > populace definitively what the other will 'do' makes me a bit
> > uncomfortable. How can one endorse a platform that the candidate
> has
> > not presented in the first place..hmmm
> >
> > I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
> running
> > soley at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave the
> > candidate in question to answer that.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Pompeia
> >
> >
> > In
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, Matt
Hucke <hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > As colleagues Gaius Geminius Germanus and I will endeavor
> to
> > fulfill the constitutional
> > > > duty to "administer the law " in a judicial and unbiased
> manner
> > and will monitor the main
> > > > list of Nova Roma in the same way. We will do so without
> regard
> > to individuals and will
> > > > strive to apply the law equally .
> > > >
> > > > As Praetor Gaius Geminius Germanus will endeavor to perform
> all
> > other duties of his
> > > > office according to the best of his abilities and
> understanding
> > and in adherence to the
> > > > Constitution, and laws of Nova Roma .
> > >
> > > Will he? We haven't had any statement of such from the
> candidate
> > himself; his
> > > declaration of candidacy consisted of only two sentences, in
> which
> > both his own name
> > > and "Quaestor" were spelled incorrectly. Surely an applicant
> for
> > the Praetorship -
> > > and admission to the Senate - should have a resumé more than
> an
> > inch long.
> > >
> > > I will vote for Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, whose history
> in
> > Nova Roma is just
> > > as long by the calendar, but far more impressive. Titus
> Octavius
> > has served well
> > > as Quaestor, Magister Aranearius, Accensus and scriba to
> several
> > senior magistrates,
> > > and in several provincial offices.
> > >
> > > Praetors have jurisdiction over the mailing list. The ideal
> > candidate is one who
> > > participates regularly in list discussions, and who is even-
> > tempered, dedicated,
> > > and able to write well. Titus Octavius is all of these.
> > >
> > > I could not be more pleased in a candidate for Praetor.
> > >
> > > TITUS OCTAVIUS PIUS FOR PRAETOR!
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > M. Octavius Germanicus, Consular.
> > >
> > > --
> > > hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...
> > >
http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/<http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/>>
> > >
> > > "The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than
> the
> > > voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Ancient
history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads>?
> t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire
> &w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrf
> WGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman
> empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads>?
> t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+rom
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> +roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=1
> 03&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
> > Roman
empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads>?
> t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3
> =The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC
> 8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Nova-
>
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> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
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> of
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> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- Salve Tiberius Galerius Paulinus:

I am sorry for not being clearer the first time....yes, I have
certainly put the bug in other peoples' ears regarding how much of
an asset they would be to NR as a magistrate!

We have alot of fine people don't we?

And it matters not to me so much that you would ask someone to run
for office, but that you would conduct their campaign for them!

This is certainly a first, and does rather an injustice to Geminius
in that is makes him look like your 'first officer' or scriba, and
or much worse, a client.

And so I think he should begin his own campaign!

I hope this makes things more clear for you.

Vale

Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova
>
> No Senator I am not being defensive. You made a near accusations

that by asking of

> citizens to stand for election I was doing something un-Roman.
>
> Senator you have also refused to answer my question Have you

asked anybody to stand?

>
> You said
>
> Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
> where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
> out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
> blessing to the republic.
>
> Is that a yes or a no? Does recommendation mean endorsement?
>
> You also said "This is, however, why I likely will not vote for

you Galerius"

>
> Likely not vote for me before?
>
> Before this post you had already endorsement the other two

candidates so I would

> assume it is very unlikely that you would vote for me.
>
> That and the fact you are all part of the Libra Political

Alliance.

>
> Talk about a client/ patron milieu that's the Libra Political

Alliance

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Candidate for Praetor
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:

pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...>

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:57 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asking other Citizens to Serve
>
>
> ---Good Morning Tiberius Galerius Paulinus!:
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-

Roma@yahoogroups.com>, "Tim Gallagher"
<spqr753@m<mailto:spqr753@m>...> wrote:

> >
> > Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of

Nova

> Roma who said in part
> >
> > "I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
> running
> > solely at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave

the

> > candidate in question to answer that"
> >
> > Whither Gaius Geminius Germanus speaks for himself is as you

say

> up to him but
> >
> > I will comment. No I did not ask him to stand but what if I
> had, what's wrong with that ?
>
>
>
> Pompeia: Rather disproportionately defensive now, don't you

think

> Galeri?.....over one comment and question. There is nothing

wrong

> with asking him to stand in itself! My, I have certainly ruffled
> your feathers..
>
> The key word here I don't think you applied is 'soley',

Galerius.

>
> If this apparently rather bashful Praetoral candidate is

running

> for other reasons, service to the republic, etc. as *well* as

being

> a running mate who thinks very much like you, apparently, then I
> suppose this is -somewhat- more comforting. Umm, it would sure

be

> even -more- comforting if he would speak about his own reasoning

and

> platform, as opposed to your doing it for him.
>
> I would venture to say he might get a few more votes.
>
> I don't think people will just up and vote for him, because he

has

> the same agenda as you, and allows you to speak for him...you

say

> he's cool, he then he must be....no...no....
>
> And you get defensive when I am so bold as to say so? Well, this

is

> not totally atypical.
>
>
> This is, however, why I likely will not vote for you Galerius:

your

> consistently demonstrated inability to cope well with other

opinions

> throughout the year.
>
>
> The people you propose to serve would like someone who will

look at

> their needs and entertain their opinions no? But... it seems

you

> know best and that is that.
>
> I believe it was a citizen in NR who coined the term 'Nanny

knows

> best' for this sor of philosophy of service to the populace.
>
>
>
>
> > I have asked a number of people to stand for office. Some have
> said yes and others have said no.
> > While others I asked have decided to stand for a different

office

> then what I had advised them to stand for.
> > So unless I am missing something it should be the duty of

EVERY

> Nova Roman to ask others to serve
> > and to offer themselves as candidates.
>
>
> Pompeia: That's wonderful Galerius. Really, good for you.
>
>
> >
> > Earlier this week unbeknownst to the other both Caius Minucius
> Scaevola and
> > I were hard at work looking for a candidate to stand for

Magister

> Aranearius.
> > Instead of have no candidates for this most important office

we

> each found a Nova Roman
> > willing to stand and serve. Regardless of who wins this race

Nova

> Roma wins.
>
> >
> > Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova

Roma

> > have you asked anybody to stand and serve? If you did THANK

YOU

>
>
> Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
> where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise

citizens

> out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
> blessing to the republic.
>
> ...... but I will not ask anyone to stand for office, then run

their

> campaign for them, making statements of 'we will do this and

we'll

> do that' akin to a Praetoral 'Little Me'....
>
> I do not advocate a clientalia/patronis milieu so I don't make

moves

> that might naturally promote such, therefore lending to

corruption

> of government.
>
> Am I saying that Geminius is your client? No. I am just saying

that

> it's got major potential to look that way, I'm afraid.
>
> Someone should send a mail chariot out to Geminius' camp and
> advise him that he should issue some independent statements.
>
>
> Valete!
> Pompeia
> C.CVRIVO SATVRNINO TITVS OCTAVIVS PIVS PRAETORIBVS 2759 A.V.C.
>
>
>
> If not Why not?
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Candidate for Praetor
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
>

pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y<mailto:pompe
ia_minucia_tiberia@y>...>

> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-

Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-
Roma@yahoogroups.com>>

> > Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:17 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius Geminius Germanus for Praetor
> >
> >
> > ---Salve Marce Octavi et Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > I haven't taken the time to formally endorse any candidate

save

> > Tullia Scholastica for Rogator, but let me take the time to

say

> that
> > I too shall be voting for Octavius Pius. He will make an
> > outstanding Praetor.
> >
> > I shall be voting for C. Curius Saturninus as well.
> >
> >
> > I realize that the concept of two Praetors working together

is

> > appealing, but the concept of one Praetoral candidate

telling

> the
> > populace definitively what the other will 'do' makes me a

bit

> > uncomfortable. How can one endorse a platform that the

candidate

> has
> > not presented in the first place..hmmm
> >
> > I can only hope that our silent Praetoral candidate is not
> running
> > soley at the request of Galerius Paulinus, but I shall leave

the

> > candidate in question to answer that.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Pompeia
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-

Roma@yahoogroups.com>, Matt Hucke <hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...> wrote:

> > >
> > >
> > > > As colleagues Gaius Geminius Germanus and I will

endeavor

> to
> > fulfill the constitutional
> > > > duty to "administer the law " in a judicial and

unbiased

> manner
> > and will monitor the main
> > > > list of Nova Roma in the same way. We will do so

without

> regard
> > to individuals and will
> > > > strive to apply the law equally .
> > > >
> > > > As Praetor Gaius Geminius Germanus will endeavor to

perform

> all
> > other duties of his
> > > > office according to the best of his abilities and
> understanding
> > and in adherence to the
> > > > Constitution, and laws of Nova Roma .
> > >
> > > Will he? We haven't had any statement of such from the
> candidate
> > himself; his
> > > declaration of candidacy consisted of only two sentences,

in

> which
> > both his own name
> > > and "Quaestor" were spelled incorrectly. Surely an

applicant

> for
> > the Praetorship -
> > > and admission to the Senate - should have a resumé more

than

> an
> > inch long.
> > >
> > > I will vote for Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, whose

history

> in
> > Nova Roma is just
> > > as long by the calendar, but far more impressive. Titus
> Octavius
> > has served well
> > > as Quaestor, Magister Aranearius, Accensus and scriba to
> several
> > senior magistrates,
> > > and in several provincial offices.
> > >
> > > Praetors have jurisdiction over the mailing list. The

ideal

> > candidate is one who
> > > participates regularly in list discussions, and who is

even-

> > tempered, dedicated,
> > > and able to write well. Titus Octavius is all of these.
> > >
> > > I could not be more pleased in a candidate for Praetor.
> > >
> > > TITUS OCTAVIUS PIUS FOR PRAETOR!
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > M. Octavius Germanicus, Consular.
> > >
> > > --
> > > hucke@c<mailto:hucke@c>...
> > >

http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/<http://www.grave
yards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/>>

> > >
> > > "The day will come when our silence will be more powerful

than

> the
> > > voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Ancient

history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads>?

>

t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire

>

&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrf

> WGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman
>

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>

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>

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> sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman
>

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>

t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the

>

+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=1

> 03&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
> > Roman

empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads>?

>

t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3

>

=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC

> 8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------

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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 08:37:02AM -0500, Tim Gallagher wrote:
> Salve Senator Pompeia Minucia Tiberia presumptive Consul of Nova
^^^^^^^^^^^

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."
-- Inigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride"

:)

We do not have the kind of system that allows for heirs - or Consuls -
presumptive, Pauline. You may wish to re-read the pertinent documents at
the Nova Roma website.

> No Senator I am not being defensive. You made a near accusations that by asking of
> citizens to stand for election I was doing something un-Roman.
>
> Senator you have also refused to answer my question Have you asked anybody to stand?
>
> You said
>
> Pompeia: Well, Quaestor, I certainly have made recommendations
> where I've felt appropriate! We have some talented, wise citizens
> out there, whose participation in an office would be of enormous
> blessing to the republic.
>
> Is that a yes or a no? Does recommendation mean endorsement?
>
> You also said "This is, however, why I likely will not vote for you Galerius"
>
> Likely not vote for me before?
>
> Before this post you had already endorsement the other two candidates so I would
> assume it is very unlikely that you would vote for me.

Pauline, you are - as you have often before, under stress - becoming
somewhat incoherent. I understand that this is all very exciting, but...
please. The position you're running for requires mature judgement, not
sputtering incoherency when the chips are down. You're not demonstrating
any of the qualities that would induce people to vote for you; quite the
opposite, in fact.

But then, that's just an opinion by a member of the Libra Alliance. I
suppose that, all by itself, should be enough to discredit it.

> That and the fact you are all part of the Libra Political Alliance.
>
> Talk about a client/ patron milieu that?s the Libra Political Alliance
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Darn those dictionaries. They just keep insisting that you have no idea
of the meanings of the words you use... they must be members of the
Libra Political Alliance too.

Clearly, you have *no* concept of what the Libra Alliance is. However,
you seem to have become infected with an /idee fixee/ of "individual
good, group bad" - without distinction of group _purpose._

This general tendency of attaching yourself - indiscriminately, I might
add - to only _the letter_ of ideas while completely ignoring their
meaning, or _spirit,_ is why I would recommend voting categorically
against your candidacy. A Praetor who has no understanding of the issues
- and worse yet, doesn't want any - is a danger to our Res Publica.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dubitando ad veritatem venimus.
We arrive at the truth being sceptical.
-- Pierre Ab�lard, "Sic et non?"

Salve Marce Horati,

Thank you for this clarification.

-- Marinus

marcushoratius wrote:

> Salvete Quirites
>
> Any emails sent to a scriba are intended for the magistrate he or
> she serves. It is not the position of a scriba to decide whether
> such communications should be made public. I apologize if I gave
> the impression that I might post the emails on my own.

Salette Omnes

Although stricken for some reason, the familiy Sejana has returned
once again from campaigning in the east. AND WE HAVE RETURNED
VICTORIOUS! We have further extended the border and ensured safety
and peace. Now it is time to return to affairs of the Republic....

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Tribunis Legio VI Ferrata

(Actually my 18 monthes in Iraq is over, AGAIN, and so I return to my
humble duties once again)

Salve, Cato amice.

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 03:11:02PM -0000, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> OSD C. Equitius Cato.
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> On a sort of tangent, what exactly is wrong with the client/patron
> relationship? It was one of the strongest, most useful, and powerful
> relationship systems ever used by civilized society.

In short, the size of Nova Roma.

Considering that essentially anyone in this group can stand for a
magistracy, being seen as someone's client - much as it was in AR - is a
direct route to conflict of interest. I.e., how likely is a Praetor who
is a client of the accused - or of the accuser - to be completely
impartial in the case?

The client/patron relationship worked well within AR primarily due to
the way that their society and environment supported it. Ours don't, so
an accusation of being someone's client is an insult equivalent to being
in their pay.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Haec ego non multis (scribo), sed tibi: satis enim magnum alter alteri theatrum
sumus.
I write this not to the many, but to you only, for you and I are surely enough of
an audience for each other.
-- Epicurus, quoted by Seneca Philosophus.

Salve Marie,

Welcome back into the arms of our Republic. I wish we could have a Triumph for you ;-) Glad you are back safe and sound. Have you changed your name? Was is Tiberius, or am I mistaking you with someone else?

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: legio_vi_tribunis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Victorius Return from Campaign


Salette Omnes

Although stricken for some reason, the familiy Sejana has returned
once again from campaigning in the east. AND WE HAVE RETURNED
VICTORIOUS! We have further extended the border and ensured safety
and peace. Now it is time to return to affairs of the Republic....

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Tribunis Legio VI Ferrata

(Actually my 18 monthes in Iraq is over, AGAIN, and so I return to my
humble duties once again)







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a.. Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato C. Minucio Scaevolo S.P.D.

Salve Minucius Scaevola.

Gotcha. Makes sense in that context; I just don't want to give the
impression that the client/patron system is evil in and of itself.

Vale bene,

Cato

Salvete,

Unless, of course, you get paid for your services by your patron (can't rule that out ;-)

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: gaiusequitiuscato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asking other Citizens to Serve


C. Equitius Cato C. Minucio Scaevolo S.P.D.

Salve Minucius Scaevola.

Gotcha. Makes sense in that context; I just don't want to give the
impression that the client/patron system is evil in and of itself.

Vale bene,

Cato









SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


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Salve Pontius Sejanus Marius

Welcome home and THANK YOU for your service.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: legio_vi_tribunis<mailto:legio_vi_tribunis@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Victorius Return from Campaign


Salette Omnes

Although stricken for some reason, the familiy Sejana has returned
once again from campaigning in the east. AND WE HAVE RETURNED
VICTORIOUS! We have further extended the border and ensured safety
and peace. Now it is time to return to affairs of the Republic....

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Tribunis Legio VI Ferrata

(Actually my 18 monthes in Iraq is over, AGAIN, and so I return to my
humble duties once again)







------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> On a sort of tangent, what exactly is wrong with the client/patron
> relationship? It was one of the strongest, most useful, and powerful
> relationship systems ever used by civilized society.

There was an incident about four years ago that was probably significant
in establishing the present prevailing attitude.

After resignation of a Tribune, there was an election for a replacement in
which there were two candidates, neither of which had any obvious connection
to any of the factions of the time. The election was very close, with a
margin of victory of only one or two tribes. A few days later, the victor
revealed himself to be a "client" of a then-serving Consul or Censor.

Many voters felt cheated; a few who were dedicated opponents of the faction
to which the new Tribune had secretly belonged lamented that they had been
tricked into voting the wrong way -- and, with the vote being so close, the
election would have gone the other way if the candidate had been honest.

Fortunately, the client tribune disappeared a few months later, and ultimately
did no damage to anything but perceptions of the client system.

Valé, Octavius.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

Salvete omnes,

I'm on the road and have a brief few minutes on computer. Thanks for
your replies to my last post - understood. The past is the past and I
am happy some people reconsidered and stayed in office so let it stand
but in future I think magistrates who quit should not have a grace
period anymore and have to run again against their piers. I believe
this will make people cool their heels and think a good 10x before
quittimg office. See you in a few days.

QSP

CN·SALVIVS·ASTVR·QVIRITIBVS·S·P·D

C. Equitius Cato scripsit:

> Memmius Albucius is one of the kindest, most decent and honest men I
> have had the good fortune to meet. I believe that he operates always
> with a concern for the laws and Constitution of the Republic in mind,
> whether or not anyone agrees with him. I can certainly empathize :-)
>
> At the same time, I would ask that he reconsider running for a second
> tribunate. It was one of the most basic principles of the republican
> constitution that no one should hold the same office in successive
> years, and that was especially true of the tribunate.

I was a bit hesitant about expressing this concern in public since,
after all, I am also a candidate to the Tribunate, and it could be
seen as some kind of electoral tactic, but... the truth is that I have
been thinking along the same lines as C. Equitius above, and I feel
that it is my duty towards Nova Roma to express my concerns, even if
that means that someone might accuse me of trying to throw mud on an
opposing candidate.

A few years ago, when I drafted the Lex Salicia de Prorogatione et Cumulatione,
[ http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-i.html ]
it was my intention to bring back the principle Cato is discussing above.

I am not saying, of course, that P. Memmius' candidacy is illegal. The
law has a provision that allows a magistrate to hold the same office
for two consecutive years should there be no candidates to fill the
position (Nova Roma, after all, is not that big, and I'd rather have a
magistrate two consecutive years than having no magistrate at all).
Since some of the candidates announced their candidacies quite late,
P. Memmius' candidacy is, to the best of my knowledge, legal.

However, it does run against the spirit of the law -- which is to
allow continuatio only in those cases where there will be a vacancy in
the office if the magistrate does not stand for another year -- and,
more importantly, against one of the most important principles of
Roman political practice. It constitutes a dangerous precedent, and it
could spell trouble for Nova Roma in the future, just like the erosion
of the prohibition of continuatio, prorogatio and cumulatio in the
Late Republic ultimately led to the Empire.

P. Memmi; I am most happy to see that you are willing to continue
working for Nova Roma's behalf. We certainly need people like you, and
particularly in Gallia. But could you please consider the possibility
of doing it in a different position? Not as a tribunus plebis; at
least, not next year. As a man of law, I am sure that you will
understand the importance of mantaining such a principle.

Thank you for your attention.

S·V·B·E·E·V

CN·SALVIVS·T·F·A·NEP·OVF·ASTVR·SCRIPSIT

Salvete omnes,

Since there are more than enough candidates willing to handle the office of QUAESTOR and none willing to take on the office of EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM. I am herewith changing my candidacy in order to fill this vacancy. I do so since I believe that all offices should be filled in order to have the running of Nova Roma be as smooth as possible in the coming year. I ask for your support in this endeavor and if given this responsibility, I shall do my best in its execution. The "Aquila" will be in good hands even though it will be hard to fill the shoes of the current editor (ProConsul Marcus Audens).

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Matt Hucke wrote:

> I will vote for Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, whose history in Nova Roma is just
> as long by the calendar, but far more impressive. Titus Octavius has served well
> as Quaestor, Magister Aranearius, Accensus and scriba to several senior magistrates,
> and in several provincial offices.
>
> Praetors have jurisdiction over the mailing list. The ideal candidate is one who
> participates regularly in list discussions, and who is even-tempered, dedicated,
> and able to write well. Titus Octavius is all of these.
>
> I could not be more pleased in a candidate for Praetor.
>
> TITUS OCTAVIUS PIUS FOR PRAETOR!

Salve, Marce Octavi Germanice.

Thank you very much. I will do my best to live up to your expectations,
should the people choose me to represent them.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Salvete Omnes,

first of all please accept my apologies for my absence during the
last days. I was forced to be at hospital for many detailed exams to
my broken left arm (do you remember my car accident in september?).
Unluckly it's no good, an infection is running and there are
problems on a nerve and the doctors prefered to put me under their
control. Probably I'll suffer another surgical operation soon. It
seems that my health problems, the consequences of my unlucky
accident, will continue for other weeks.

The hospital, one of the better of europe created two weeks ago, had
internet connections in any room but it seems that they were not
working while I was there. So I was unable to announce my absence
and communicate with my staff fastly. In any way I have read a large
part of the messages via WAP on my mobile phone. It permitted me to
archive all the candidacies and declarations and read the more
important topics.

Now I need some hour to organize them and to update the webpage and
to organize the comitia soon. Tomorrow morning I'll publish all the
official dates. Now
I'll answer to all the messages sended here and to me privatly.

Thank you fpr your patience and collaboration.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Consul

Salvete Omnes,

> I can only guarantee this: anyone *emailing their candidacy to me
> directly* at ben@l... will see it posted within a maximum of
> 24 hours, and nearly instantly if I'm at my computer when I

receive it.

First of all thank you very much to Caius Minucius Scaevola for his
assistance, his job was precious.

However, as announced on my official call, the only candidacies
sended to me privatly (at fraelov AT yahoo.it) or at the main
mailing list before 11:59 PM of the december 3rd will be considered
valid and official.
I recall you that the only official list of the candidates will be
the list proposed to the Comitia.
For this reason the *unofficial* webpage listing the current
candidates will be reseted and updated again tomorrow.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Consul

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Cassio Philippo salutem dicit

The call for candidates (that is, non-Plebian specific candidates) expired
8:00 PM (Roman time) on December 3rd.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 12/4/05, Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Since there are more than enough candidates willing to handle the office
> of QUAESTOR and none willing to take on the office of EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM.
> I am herewith changing my candidacy in order to fill this vacancy. I do so
> since I believe that all offices should be filled in order to have the
> running of Nova Roma be as smooth as possible in the coming year. I ask for
> your support in this endeavor and if given this responsibility, I shall do
> my best in its execution. The "Aquila" will be in good hands even though it
> will be hard to fill the shoes of the current editor (ProConsul Marcus
> Audens).
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvette Omnes,

It seems many of us are returning back to NR, whether after short
stays, or long such as mine. But none the less it shows the resolve
of our great Republic. I issue this challenge for the upcoming year:
let each and every cive who holds dear these values set forth for us
to exemplify this not only in NR, but in our civilian life as well.
Let us make the Romans of ancient smile with pride upon us all.

Marcus Sejanus Marius

Salve,

I thank you for your support, and I am not Tiberius, but rather Marcus. I believe but could be mistaken, that Tiberius went on campaign as well.

Marcus Sejanus Marius

Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote: Salve Marie,

Welcome back into the arms of our Republic. I wish we could have a Triumph for you ;-) Glad you are back safe and sound. Have you changed your name? Was is Tiberius, or am I mistaking you with someone else?

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: legio_vi_tribunis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Victorius Return from Campaign


Salette Omnes

Although stricken for some reason, the familiy Sejana has returned
once again from campaigning in the east. AND WE HAVE RETURNED
VICTORIOUS! We have further extended the border and ensured safety
and peace. Now it is time to return to affairs of the Republic....

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Tribunis Legio VI Ferrata

(Actually my 18 monthes in Iraq is over, AGAIN, and so I return to my
humble duties once again)







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In a message dated 12/4/2005 9:28:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cn.salvius.astur@... writes:
am not saying, of course, that P. Memmius' candidacy is illegal. The
law has a provision that allows a magistrate to hold the same office
for two consecutive years should there be no candidates to fill the
position (Nova Roma, after all, is not that big, and I'd rather have a
magistrate two consecutive years than having no magistrate at all).
Since some of the candidates announced their candidacies quite late,
P. Memmius' candidacy is, to the best of my knowledge, legal.
You might recall the reason why a magistrate was not allowed to stand for
consecutive terms.
Magistrates could not be indicted for crimes against the state while sitting.
However, as soon as the office was vacated, the indictment would be carried
out.

Now NR is a unique case, since we have too few people to fill roles as it is.
So I would be hesitant to ban willing people, even if it meant a person
being elected to a second term.
It is not Roman, but it is necessary.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

I'm just trying to be of service to Nova Roma. I was asked to change my candidacy, not because I desired a different office but because it would be better for Nova Roma if someone could take over that office since it will be vacant when Marcus Audens leaves it. If my help is not needed as editor of the "Aquila", that's OK, much less workload for me.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: David Kling
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] CHANGE IN DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY


Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Cassio Philippo salutem dicit

The call for candidates (that is, non-Plebian specific candidates) expired
8:00 PM (Roman time) on December 3rd.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 12/4/05, Sensei Phil Perez <senseiphil@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Since there are more than enough candidates willing to handle the office
> of QUAESTOR and none willing to take on the office of EDITOR COMMENTARIORUM.
> I am herewith changing my candidacy in order to fill this vacancy. I do so
> since I believe that all offices should be filled in order to have the
> running of Nova Roma be as smooth as possible in the coming year. I ask for
> your support in this endeavor and if given this responsibility, I shall do
> my best in its execution. The "Aquila" will be in good hands even though it
> will be hard to fill the shoes of the current editor (ProConsul Marcus
> Audens).
>
> Vires et honos,
> Marcus Cassius Philippus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Salve, F. Apulus Caesar Consul.

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 07:07:05PM -0000, FAC wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> first of all please accept my apologies for my absence during the
> last days. I was forced to be at hospital for many detailed exams to
> my broken left arm (do you remember my car accident in september?).
> Unluckly it's no good, an infection is running and there are
> problems on a nerve and the doctors prefered to put me under their
> control. Probably I'll suffer another surgical operation soon. It
> seems that my health problems, the consequences of my unlucky
> accident, will continue for other weeks.
>
> The hospital, one of the better of europe created two weeks ago, had
> internet connections in any room but it seems that they were not
> working while I was there. So I was unable to announce my absence
> and communicate with my staff fastly. In any way I have read a large
> part of the messages via WAP on my mobile phone. It permitted me to
> archive all the candidacies and declarations and read the more
> important topics.
>
> Now I need some hour to organize them and to update the webpage and
> to organize the comitia soon. Tomorrow morning I'll publish all the
> official dates. Now
> I'll answer to all the messages sended here and to me privatly.
>
> Thank you fpr your patience and collaboration.

I'm glad to see you back, Consul, and I hope that your medical problems
are resolved soon and with minimum pain.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ridentem dicere verum, quid vetat?
What prohibits us to tell the truth laughing (through a joke)?
-- Horace, "Satirae"

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 07:20:05PM -0000, FAC wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> > I can only guarantee this: anyone *emailing their candidacy to me
> > directly* at ben@l... will see it posted within a maximum of
> > 24 hours, and nearly instantly if I'm at my computer when I
> receive it.
>
> First of all thank you very much to Caius Minucius Scaevola for his
> assistance, his job was precious.

Thank you, Consul - much appreciated. I ended up having to rewrite the
entire thing from scratch in order to streamline the process, which
required staying up until after 4am... but now, Nova Roma has an easy
and obvious process for listing candidate declarations.

(Please take a look at the README file in the election/2758 directory;
it explains the whole structure.)

> However, as announced on my official call, the only candidacies
> sended to me privatly (at fraelov AT yahoo.it) or at the main
> mailing list before 11:59 PM of the december 3rd will be considered
> valid and official.
> I recall you that the only official list of the candidates will be
> the list proposed to the Comitia.
> For this reason the *unofficial* webpage listing the current
> candidates will be reseted and updated again tomorrow.

In order to avoid this kind of information collision in the future, I
recommend setting up a Yahoo group ("nr-candidates", perhaps?) for this
purpose. Anyone can post their candidacy, and all posts made there
should go to both the consules _and_ the webmaster. As it stands, any
candidates who mistakenly did not follow the proper channels may have
done so out of honest, and understandable, confusion.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas es.
Knowledge is power.
-- Sir Francis Bacon

Salve Pompeia,

Wow!

As to the Senate, I asked for opinions. The majority of those
responding favored no grace period (by a large margin). If there
had been a Consultum or some formal action, it obviously would have
been reported.

So, in case anyone is confused, there is no formal Senate opinion on
the resignation issue - I was just reporting the research I did in
coming to my decision to propose the "no grace period" idea.

As for Consul Caesar, he is my friend. I wrote what I wrote out of
respect for him andf his office - nothing more or less.


Laenas

Anything more I might feel like saying regarding your post would be
counter productive.--- In Nova-
Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:

>
> ---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Gaio Popillio Populoque S.P.D.
>
> (I think the above is correct)
>
> Anyway, Honoured Consul, upon reading and pondering the message
> below, I have decided to render some comments and clarification
> where I feel appropriate, if you will bear with me.
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <gaiuspopillius@g...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> > There is one other item that I have promised action on, and that
> is
> > clarification on resignations of magistrates.
> >
> > This issue arose early this year. I asked for the input of the
> > Senate, my staff, and my colleague. Basically there are two

ways

> to
> > approach it: a grace period allowing for reconsideration after a
> > magistrate announces a resignation, or resignation effectively
> > immediately.
>
> >
> > The majority of the Senate appears to favor effective

immediately.

>
> Pompeia Respondeo: Indeed? I must, unfortunately, come forth and
> state to the populace, and I shall to chambers later, that I find
> this a tad misleading to say the least. The numbers of Senators
> involved in any informal discussion are to be kept *in chambers*
> until such time as there is a formal Senatus Consultum showing a
> required majority of the Senate members agreeing with the subject
> matter of the Consultum.
>
> The sheer numbers of Senatores themselves do not jive with your
> statement and myself, I shall confine them to the Senate Forum,

but

> in any case, again, in the absence of a Senatus Consultum your
> claims to have the Senate's opinion behind your endeavors here are
> unfounded.
>
> > My colleague, Consul Caesar, favors a grace period because he
> feels
> > an immediately effective resignation is harsh and may cause us

to

> > lose good magistrates who just experience a period of

frustration.

> >
> > I have decided to present to you for comment, a lex that

proposes

> > immediately effective resignations of magistrates. The lex also
> > provides, although perhaps superfluously, that a resigning
> > magistrate who changes his or her mind is free to stand in the
> > election for a replacement and let the people decide.
> >
> > This seems to me the best course of action.
>
> Pompeia; I realize that in #40137, after another citizen

suggested

> that you allow Caesar Consul time to speak for himself, you

thought

> better of the situation and stated that you were not trying to

more

> or less pull any *surprise* moves and that both points of view
> should be presented....yours and Caesar's. Fair enough.
>
> I will note, however, that your entire endeavor is no longer
> considered an unbiased determination of justice, atleast to this
> reader. When you state that you have the senate's backing, which
> cannot be said with any accuracy, you are, perhaps without
> realizing, suggesting to the populace that a vote against this
> proposal by anyone is a vote against the Senates' concensus on
> this. Put another way, the folks should vote for this because the
> Senate likes it.
>
> An example:
>
> 4 out of 5 doctors recommend a certain brand of painreliever.

Maybe

> only 5 doctors participated in the survey...this sort of thing.
>
> You are saying that the Senate backs the year-long agendae held by
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, G. Equitius Cato and to a lesser

extent

> A. Apollonius Cordus. Fine individuals in their own right, but

each

> with a determined mindset regarding how resignations are 'best'
> handled,a policy which can only be attributed to themselves and
> others backing it, and not at this point the Senate. I am sure

some

> Senators agree with their policies, but the majority of the

Senate?

> Not by any empirical data to date.
> >
> > I feel Consul Caesar and I have worked very well together this
> year
> > and I am pleased to call him a friend. I mean no disrespect to
> him
> > in presenting this; it is just that we disagree.
>
> Pompeia: I am accensus to F. Apulus Caesar Consul and I will not
> get into anything regarding dialogue between the two of you..it is
> not my place and I likely don't know the whole story, anyway.
>
> I would not assume, though, that he is completely ignorant of what
> transpires on this list in his absence...I think that would be a
> hasty assumption, although I cannot read his mind, for sure.
> Knowing him as I do, I as his consular colleague would definitely
> not assume such things. I would also be wary of the assumption

that

> he has done no work on this issue, despite disagreement between
> yourself, Laenus Consul and Caesar on the elements of this issue.
>
> Bottom Line?
>
> If you do not allow the people a choice, Laenus Consul, atleast

an

> opportunity for the people to examine any possible proposal of
> Caesar consul, then I fear that message #40137 is rather

meaningless

> prose. And it will appear that you are offering the people not
> a 'choice' but an 'ultimatim'...a 'nanny knows best' deal. Is

that

> truly how you wish to end your term, sir?
>
>
>
> There are 31 days in December, and I'm sure another day or two

will

> not compell the wheels of progress or justice to a grinding halt.

I

> will not discuss the Consul's absence this weekend other than it

is

> rather necessary and unavoidable.
>
> Valete
> Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Senatrix
> Accensus Consularis
> F. Apulus Caesar 2758 A.U.C.
> >
> > The proposed text follows:
> >
> >
> >
> > Lex Popillia de Magistratu Eiurando
> > >
> > > I. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy shall
> > > immediately and irrevocably cease to hold that
> > > magistracy.
> > >
> > > II. A magistrate who announces his resignation of
> > > citizenship shall immediately and irrevocably cease
> > > to hold any and all his magistracies.
> > >
> > > III. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy and
> > > later changes his or her mind, may stand as a candidate
> > > in the election to fill the vacancy without penalty.
> >
>

Salvete,

<SIGH!>

The timing of my proposal is based on the fact that this is the last
vote of the year and I promised to act on the issue. Again, nothing
more or less.

As I have written, I have written to Consul Caesar privately on the
issue. He has a proposal of his own. I expect he will present his
as well and we will let the people decide.

I have no political motives here. If fact, my lack of skill as a
politician should be evident to all after these past years.

If my last two posts seem harsh, well, it does "rile" me to read
such as I am respondingn to.

Laenas




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Benjamin A. Okopnik" <ben@l...>
wrote:

>
> Salve, Cato amice; salvete omnes.
>
> On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 01:01:01PM -0000, Gaius Equitius Cato

wrote:

> > C. Equitius Cato P. Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni Q. Popillio Laeno
> > quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > Salvete omnes.
> >
> > Pompeia Strabo, you are absolutely correct when you say that I

have

> > been at this for the past year. My feelings about resignation

have

> > never been hidden, and I am not going to change them.
> >
> > I think you are being a bit unfair to the consul, however. The

way I

> > read his post was simply that, in the course of his

deliberations, he

> > spoke to members of the Senate. No-where did he state that the

senate

> > agreed with him either in any specific individual case or as a

body

> > --- just that he had included some senators in the course of his
> > thinking about the issue.
>
> My major concern in this issue is the timing of this proposal. I'm
> trying, as hard as possible, to *not* perceive Consul Laenas'

actions as

> taking advantage of Consul Caesar's absence... and I'm afraid that

I'm

> failing. Had he stated "I'm taking this action - and here is a
> description of the extreme emergency that compels me to do it

*right

> now*, while my colleague is medically incapacitated and unable to
> speak", I would have considered the nature of that emergency, and

have

> made my decision - as would everyone else here - about the

necessity of

> doing so. As it stands, there _is_ no stated emergency... and the

whole

> process is beginning to acquire a rather unpleasant smell.
>
> I invite Consul Laenas to tell us all about what this state of

emergency

> is. If I have been unfair in characterizing this as a rush job

designed

> to avoid Consul Caesar's input by taking advantage of his illness,

I

> would be very glad to hear of it and have my misperception

corrected.

>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

=-

> Aquila non captat muscas.
> The eagle doesn't capture flies.
> -- N/A
>

Is it too late to throw my coolis in the ring for Praefect of the Auixilia?

Gaius Aurelius Scipio
Cohort II Asturum Equitata



Quondo Omni Flunkus Mortati. (When all else fails, play dead!)
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war)(Vegetius)
'Veni, Vidi, Castratavi Illegitimos' - we came, we saw, we castrated the b*stards...
"So I had a choice: either take the word of a madman, take the word of a man who had used weapons of mass destruction on his own people, or take action to defend America. Given that choice, I will defend America every time." --President George W. Bush
-The Darwin Award candidate-
Iraqi terrorist Khay Rahnajet didn't pay enough postage on a letter bomb. It came back with "Return to Sender" stamped on it. Forgetting it was the bomb, he opened it and was blown to bits.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Gaio Popillio Laeno Sal.

I fear you are putting a little water in your wine by this post,
Consul.

Please visit the original post of this thread, which you have
carried. This carries your original statement regarding resignation
policies:

'The majority of the Senate appears to favour immediately' ie no
grace period...That is what you said to the people Consul.

If you wish to say *now* the majority of Senators who responded to
your informal solicitation in chambers were in favour of no grace
period, as you are implying in this post, then by all means clarify
your position.

But that is not what you said in the first place, which is, I'm
afraid misleading.

Further, I have the statistics, which you might want to review
before you invoke appraisals such as 'large margin', a term which is
rather relative, and best measured by empirical data. And this data
was not intended as a formal opinion of the entire Senate anyway.
Otherwise it would have been on a ballot and it would be in the
Tabularium under 'Senatus Consultum".

I have nothing further to disclose regarding the issue outside
Senate chambers, so I'll end the matter on the ML, save to say that
the citizens should not assume by statements issued by Consul Laenus
recently, that the majority of Senatores back his presented
resignation policies...only the majority of those who rendered you
advice. Again, Laenus Consul, you might want to take another look at
the numbers...in chambers.

Valete


Vale


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopillius@g...> wrote:

>
> Salve Pompeia,
>
> Wow!
>
> As to the Senate, I asked for opinions. The majority of those
> responding favored no grace period (by a large margin). If there
> had been a Consultum or some formal action, it obviously would

have

> been reported.
>
> So, in case anyone is confused, there is no formal Senate opinion

on

> the resignation issue - I was just reporting the research I did in
> coming to my decision to propose the "no grace period" idea.
>
> As for Consul Caesar, he is my friend. I wrote what I wrote out

of

> respect for him andf his office - nothing more or less.
>
>
> Laenas
>
> Anything more I might feel like saying regarding your post would

be

> counter productive.--- In Nova-
> Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
> <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> >
> > ---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Gaio Popillio Populoque S.P.D.
> >
> > (I think the above is correct)
> >
> > Anyway, Honoured Consul, upon reading and pondering the message
> > below, I have decided to render some comments and clarification
> > where I feel appropriate, if you will bear with me.
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> > <gaiuspopillius@g...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,
> > >
> > > (snip)
> > >
> > > There is one other item that I have promised action on, and

that

> > is
> > > clarification on resignations of magistrates.
> > >
> > > This issue arose early this year. I asked for the input of

the

> > > Senate, my staff, and my colleague. Basically there are two
> ways
> > to
> > > approach it: a grace period allowing for reconsideration after

a

> > > magistrate announces a resignation, or resignation effectively
> > > immediately.
> >
> > >
> > > The majority of the Senate appears to favor effective
> immediately.
> >
> > Pompeia Respondeo: Indeed? I must, unfortunately, come forth

and

> > state to the populace, and I shall to chambers later, that I

find

> > this a tad misleading to say the least. The numbers of Senators
> > involved in any informal discussion are to be kept *in chambers*
> > until such time as there is a formal Senatus Consultum showing a
> > required majority of the Senate members agreeing with the

subject

> > matter of the Consultum.
> >
> > The sheer numbers of Senatores themselves do not jive with your
> > statement and myself, I shall confine them to the Senate Forum,
> but
> > in any case, again, in the absence of a Senatus Consultum your
> > claims to have the Senate's opinion behind your endeavors here

are

> > unfounded.
> >
> > > My colleague, Consul Caesar, favors a grace period because he
> > feels
> > > an immediately effective resignation is harsh and may cause us
> to
> > > lose good magistrates who just experience a period of
> frustration.
> > >
> > > I have decided to present to you for comment, a lex that
> proposes
> > > immediately effective resignations of magistrates. The lex

also

> > > provides, although perhaps superfluously, that a resigning
> > > magistrate who changes his or her mind is free to stand in the
> > > election for a replacement and let the people decide.
> > >
> > > This seems to me the best course of action.
> >
> > Pompeia; I realize that in #40137, after another citizen
> suggested
> > that you allow Caesar Consul time to speak for himself, you
> thought
> > better of the situation and stated that you were not trying to
> more
> > or less pull any *surprise* moves and that both points of view
> > should be presented....yours and Caesar's. Fair enough.
> >
> > I will note, however, that your entire endeavor is no longer
> > considered an unbiased determination of justice, atleast to this
> > reader. When you state that you have the senate's backing,

which

> > cannot be said with any accuracy, you are, perhaps without
> > realizing, suggesting to the populace that a vote against this
> > proposal by anyone is a vote against the Senates' concensus on
> > this. Put another way, the folks should vote for this because

the

> > Senate likes it.
> >
> > An example:
> >
> > 4 out of 5 doctors recommend a certain brand of painreliever.
> Maybe
> > only 5 doctors participated in the survey...this sort of thing.
> >
> > You are saying that the Senate backs the year-long agendae held

by

> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, G. Equitius Cato and to a lesser
> extent
> > A. Apollonius Cordus. Fine individuals in their own right, but
> each
> > with a determined mindset regarding how resignations are 'best'
> > handled,a policy which can only be attributed to themselves and
> > others backing it, and not at this point the Senate. I am sure
> some
> > Senators agree with their policies, but the majority of the
> Senate?
> > Not by any empirical data to date.
> > >
> > > I feel Consul Caesar and I have worked very well together this
> > year
> > > and I am pleased to call him a friend. I mean no disrespect

to

> > him
> > > in presenting this; it is just that we disagree.
> >
> > Pompeia: I am accensus to F. Apulus Caesar Consul and I will

not

> > get into anything regarding dialogue between the two of you..it

is

> > not my place and I likely don't know the whole story, anyway.
> >
> > I would not assume, though, that he is completely ignorant of

what

> > transpires on this list in his absence...I think that would be a
> > hasty assumption, although I cannot read his mind, for sure.
> > Knowing him as I do, I as his consular colleague would

definitely

> > not assume such things. I would also be wary of the assumption
> that
> > he has done no work on this issue, despite disagreement between
> > yourself, Laenus Consul and Caesar on the elements of this issue.
> >
> > Bottom Line?
> >
> > If you do not allow the people a choice, Laenus Consul, atleast
> an
> > opportunity for the people to examine any possible proposal of
> > Caesar consul, then I fear that message #40137 is rather
> meaningless
> > prose. And it will appear that you are offering the people not
> > a 'choice' but an 'ultimatim'...a 'nanny knows best' deal. Is
> that
> > truly how you wish to end your term, sir?
> >
> >
> >
> > There are 31 days in December, and I'm sure another day or two
> will
> > not compell the wheels of progress or justice to a grinding

halt.

> I
> > will not discuss the Consul's absence this weekend other than it
> is
> > rather necessary and unavoidable.
> >
> > Valete
> > Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Senatrix
> > Accensus Consularis
> > F. Apulus Caesar 2758 A.U.C.
> > >
> > > The proposed text follows:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lex Popillia de Magistratu Eiurando
> > > >
> > > > I. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy shall
> > > > immediately and irrevocably cease to hold that
> > > > magistracy.
> > > >
> > > > II. A magistrate who announces his resignation of
> > > > citizenship shall immediately and irrevocably cease
> > > > to hold any and all his magistracies.
> > > >
> > > > III. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy and
> > > > later changes his or her mind, may stand as a candidate
> > > > in the election to fill the vacancy without penalty.
> > >
> >
>

Salvete Omnes,

>>I fear you are putting a little water in your wine by this post,

Consul.<<

I don't know what the above means, but I will respond on this issue
one final time to try and clarify. I apologize to all for my poor
communication skills that have caused this misunderstanding.

Alright, let me clarify my statements:

I consulted the Senate and considered their advice before deciding
to propose my resignation lex.

No cive should read anything more than the above into my statements
on the issue.

I present this lex to solve a problem that we have. There are two
main avenues to take, and I chose one. If you don't agree, please
vote "NO" or vote for a counter proposal that may be presented.

I promised to address this; and I have.

Valete,

Laenas



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:

>
> ---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Gaio Popillio Laeno Sal.
>
> I fear you are putting a little water in your wine by this post,
> Consul.
>
> Please visit the original post of this thread, which you have
> carried. This carries your original statement regarding

resignation

> policies:
>
> 'The majority of the Senate appears to favour immediately' ie no
> grace period...That is what you said to the people Consul.
>
> If you wish to say *now* the majority of Senators who responded

to

> your informal solicitation in chambers were in favour of no grace
> period, as you are implying in this post, then by all means

clarify

> your position.
>
> But that is not what you said in the first place, which is, I'm
> afraid misleading.
>
> Further, I have the statistics, which you might want to review
> before you invoke appraisals such as 'large margin', a term which

is

> rather relative, and best measured by empirical data. And this

data

> was not intended as a formal opinion of the entire Senate anyway.
> Otherwise it would have been on a ballot and it would be in the
> Tabularium under 'Senatus Consultum".
>
> I have nothing further to disclose regarding the issue outside
> Senate chambers, so I'll end the matter on the ML, save to say

that

> the citizens should not assume by statements issued by Consul

Laenus

> recently, that the majority of Senatores back his presented
> resignation policies...only the majority of those who rendered you
> advice. Again, Laenus Consul, you might want to take another look

at

> the numbers...in chambers.
>
> Valete
>
>
> Vale
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <gaiuspopillius@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Pompeia,
> >
> > Wow!
> >
> > As to the Senate, I asked for opinions. The majority of those
> > responding favored no grace period (by a large margin). If

there

> > had been a Consultum or some formal action, it obviously would
> have
> > been reported.
> >
> > So, in case anyone is confused, there is no formal Senate

opinion

> on
> > the resignation issue - I was just reporting the research I did

in

> > coming to my decision to propose the "no grace period" idea.
> >
> > As for Consul Caesar, he is my friend. I wrote what I wrote out
> of
> > respect for him andf his office - nothing more or less.
> >
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> > Anything more I might feel like saying regarding your post would
> be
> > counter productive.--- In Nova-
> > Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
> > <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Gaio Popillio Populoque S.P.D.
> > >
> > > (I think the above is correct)
> > >
> > > Anyway, Honoured Consul, upon reading and pondering the

message

> > > below, I have decided to render some comments and

clarification

> > > where I feel appropriate, if you will bear with me.
> > >
> > >
> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> > > <gaiuspopillius@g...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gaius Popillius Laenas Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit,
> > > >
> > > > (snip)
> > > >
> > > > There is one other item that I have promised action on, and
> that
> > > is
> > > > clarification on resignations of magistrates.
> > > >
> > > > This issue arose early this year. I asked for the input of
> the
> > > > Senate, my staff, and my colleague. Basically there are two
> > ways
> > > to
> > > > approach it: a grace period allowing for reconsideration

after

> a
> > > > magistrate announces a resignation, or resignation

effectively

> > > > immediately.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The majority of the Senate appears to favor effective
> > immediately.
> > >
> > > Pompeia Respondeo: Indeed? I must, unfortunately, come forth
> and
> > > state to the populace, and I shall to chambers later, that I
> find
> > > this a tad misleading to say the least. The numbers of

Senators

> > > involved in any informal discussion are to be kept *in

chambers*

> > > until such time as there is a formal Senatus Consultum showing

a

> > > required majority of the Senate members agreeing with the
> subject
> > > matter of the Consultum.
> > >
> > > The sheer numbers of Senatores themselves do not jive with

your

> > > statement and myself, I shall confine them to the Senate

Forum,

> > but
> > > in any case, again, in the absence of a Senatus Consultum your
> > > claims to have the Senate's opinion behind your endeavors here
> are
> > > unfounded.
> > >
> > > > My colleague, Consul Caesar, favors a grace period because

he

> > > feels
> > > > an immediately effective resignation is harsh and may cause

us

> > to
> > > > lose good magistrates who just experience a period of
> > frustration.
> > > >
> > > > I have decided to present to you for comment, a lex that
> > proposes
> > > > immediately effective resignations of magistrates. The lex
> also
> > > > provides, although perhaps superfluously, that a resigning
> > > > magistrate who changes his or her mind is free to stand in

the

> > > > election for a replacement and let the people decide.
> > > >
> > > > This seems to me the best course of action.
> > >
> > > Pompeia; I realize that in #40137, after another citizen
> > suggested
> > > that you allow Caesar Consul time to speak for himself, you
> > thought
> > > better of the situation and stated that you were not trying to
> > more
> > > or less pull any *surprise* moves and that both points of view
> > > should be presented....yours and Caesar's. Fair enough.
> > >
> > > I will note, however, that your entire endeavor is no longer
> > > considered an unbiased determination of justice, atleast to

this

> > > reader. When you state that you have the senate's backing,
> which
> > > cannot be said with any accuracy, you are, perhaps without
> > > realizing, suggesting to the populace that a vote against this
> > > proposal by anyone is a vote against the Senates' concensus on
> > > this. Put another way, the folks should vote for this because
> the
> > > Senate likes it.
> > >
> > > An example:
> > >
> > > 4 out of 5 doctors recommend a certain brand of painreliever.
> > Maybe
> > > only 5 doctors participated in the survey...this sort of thing.
> > >
> > > You are saying that the Senate backs the year-long agendae

held

> by
> > > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, G. Equitius Cato and to a lesser
> > extent
> > > A. Apollonius Cordus. Fine individuals in their own right,

but

> > each
> > > with a determined mindset regarding how resignations

are 'best'

> > > handled,a policy which can only be attributed to themselves

and

> > > others backing it, and not at this point the Senate. I am

sure

> > some
> > > Senators agree with their policies, but the majority of the
> > Senate?
> > > Not by any empirical data to date.
> > > >
> > > > I feel Consul Caesar and I have worked very well together

this

> > > year
> > > > and I am pleased to call him a friend. I mean no disrespect
> to
> > > him
> > > > in presenting this; it is just that we disagree.
> > >
> > > Pompeia: I am accensus to F. Apulus Caesar Consul and I will
> not
> > > get into anything regarding dialogue between the two of

you..it

> is
> > > not my place and I likely don't know the whole story, anyway.
> > >
> > > I would not assume, though, that he is completely ignorant of
> what
> > > transpires on this list in his absence...I think that would be

a

> > > hasty assumption, although I cannot read his mind, for sure.
> > > Knowing him as I do, I as his consular colleague would
> definitely
> > > not assume such things. I would also be wary of the

assumption

> > that
> > > he has done no work on this issue, despite disagreement

between

> > > yourself, Laenus Consul and Caesar on the elements of this

issue.

> > >
> > > Bottom Line?
> > >
> > > If you do not allow the people a choice, Laenus Consul,

atleast

> > an
> > > opportunity for the people to examine any possible proposal of
> > > Caesar consul, then I fear that message #40137 is rather
> > meaningless
> > > prose. And it will appear that you are offering the people

not

> > > a 'choice' but an 'ultimatim'...a 'nanny knows best' deal. Is
> > that
> > > truly how you wish to end your term, sir?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are 31 days in December, and I'm sure another day or two
> > will
> > > not compell the wheels of progress or justice to a grinding
> halt.
> > I
> > > will not discuss the Consul's absence this weekend other than

it

> > is
> > > rather necessary and unavoidable.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > > Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Senatrix
> > > Accensus Consularis
> > > F. Apulus Caesar 2758 A.U.C.
> > > >
> > > > The proposed text follows:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lex Popillia de Magistratu Eiurando
> > > > >
> > > > > I. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy shall
> > > > > immediately and irrevocably cease to hold that
> > > > > magistracy.
> > > > >
> > > > > II. A magistrate who announces his resignation of
> > > > > citizenship shall immediately and irrevocably cease
> > > > > to hold any and all his magistracies.
> > > > >
> > > > > III. A magistrate who resigns his magistracy and
> > > > > later changes his or her mind, may stand as a candidate
> > > > > in the election to fill the vacancy without penalty.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Scaevola,

> Thank you, Consul - much appreciated. I ended up having to rewrite

the

> entire thing from scratch in order to streamline the process, which
> required staying up until after 4am... but now, Nova Roma has an

easy

> and obvious process for listing candidate declarations.
>
> (Please take a look at the README file in the election/2758

directory;

> it explains the whole structure.)

I'm going to read it, thank you again.

> In order to avoid this kind of information collision in the

future, I

> recommend setting up a Yahoo group ("nr-candidates", perhaps?) for

this

> purpose. Anyone can post their candidacy, and all posts made there
> should go to both the consules _and_ the webmaster. As it stands,

any

> candidates who mistakenly did not follow the proper channels may

have

> done so out of honest, and understandable, confusion.

Your is a good iea. However in the future we could use the NR-
Announce as official place for the candidacies avoiding to create
another one nova roman list. I hope the next Consules would follow
your precious suggestion.

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Consul

Salve, G. Popillius Laenas Consul.

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 12:01:32AM -0000, gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> <SIGH!>

Consul, I understand that you're frustrated - and perhaps your
frustration is justifiable. However, when your statements or actions
look like they may involve questionable practices, and you don't address
those concerns up front, you must surely know that they will raise
questions. This is, I'm afraid, the nature of public service; if your
actions have the power to affect the many, then they will be subject to
scrutiny by the eyes of those they affect.

I do not bring up these issues to annoy you or frustrate you; on the
contrary, I do so because I find your actions puzzling in a man whom I
consider to be well-intentioned. I am, in fact, assuming that you *do*
have a good answer - my only quandary is that I do not know what that
answer is.

> The timing of my proposal is based on the fact that this is the last
> vote of the year and I promised to act on the issue. Again, nothing
> more or less.

My question is, why could it not have waited until F. Apulus Caesar was
out of the hospital? The information that I had was that he went in for
a round of tests; now, he reports that he got held up due to the results
of those tests. I understand that there is time pressure on the
announcement, but that time pressure has been a matter of weeks, not
hours. Announcing it while he was out of touch necessarily raises
questions; not addressing those questions along with the announcement
necessarily produces doubts.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Primum est non nocere.
First of all, do no harm.
-- Hippocrates; The maxim has become an ethical guiding principle in medicine.

CN CORNELVS LENTVLVS: QVAESTOR CANDIDATVS: QVIRITIBVS: SPD:

Consules of the Republic! Quirites! I stand before You in my toga candida with a heavy doubt...
I have decided to run for Quaestor and (before the deadline) I sent my candidacy to the Consul Fr. Apulus. My candidacy was accepted and I prepared to write my Declaration and then I have seen the recent e-mails in which some of You had complained that many magistracies are still without enough candidates. This is an important problem and I thougt I may change my mind... The reason because I decided to run for Quaestor was that I thought that it is the best way I can serve You. But if the Republic needs other thing from me: I am willing to do that: I am willing to run for Custos (or Diribitor) - I am a patrician so the Plebeian Aedilitas is not possible for me.

So, Quirites, I publish here my Declaration, without so much as I would know what is Your bidding... I wanted to be a Quaestor thinking strongly that I would be an enthusiast and appropriate Quaestor. Tell me what do You suggest. To be a Quaestor as I would like and as I have stated registering myself through the Consul - or to change my candidacy. The other question (and this concerns the experts) can candidates change thier candidacy at all? Because M. Cassius Philippus expressed his desire to do so, but C. Buteo pontifex, Consul Candidatus has answered that it's illegeal... So please give me legal advice on it.

After these doubtfulnesses I would like to intruduce myself as a candidate for Quaestura(?):

DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY OF CN. CORNELIUS LENTULUS
http://novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=7694

I am Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Hungarian, Nova Roman citizen of Pannonia Provincia. I study as a graduate student in the most important Hungarian university in the Latin Department, i.e. of classical studies, Latin and Greek languages, Roman history, literature, philosophy, religion and ancient cultures. I have a quite well knowledge in these matters so I can designate myself as an expert of the Romanitas.
Since I was child I felt myself Roman. When I was 16 I assumed the name Cn. Cornelius Lentulus together with my white toga virilis long before Nova Roma was burn, and I decided to live as a Roman and to do anything I could go nearer to the ancient Rome with. I have learned Latin I wore everyday Roman clothes at home etc... Later I founded a Roman reenactor association the Consociatio Hungarica Ad Rem Romanam Reficiundam, and I dreamed that someday I will find many people who think similarly to me and want to restore the Roman Republic.

...And, on Aprile 21 a year ago, I have found Nova Roma. I knew my dreams were realized: firstly I got in touch with Provincia Italia and experienced the orgainzation, then I joined in. In the first few months I didn't participate in the main list discussions, I kept the contact only with my italian friends, but later I joined in the Sodalitas Latinitatis and started to take part in the public life of our Republic.

My provincia, Pannonia was in the worst condition at the time, so I decided to reorganize and make it a real community.
On April 1 this year, the Senate appointed me as Propraetor of Pannonia and I started my work. If anybody is interested my propraetorial activities and real life events organized by me in the provioncia and the successes we have gained, You are invited to read my Edictum V. which contains the Annual Provincial Report of my Propraetorship:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066
I think this proves my ability to the Quaestorial duties.


Besides my propraetorial duties I was appointed as Scriba of Aedilis L. Iulius Sulla and in this office I have organized the Ludi Megalenses Certamen Historcum (Historical Contest) during the Megalesia, and the Ludi Victoriae Sullanae Certamen Historicum.

I am one of the two Senior Scriba of A. Tullia Scholastica, official Latin interpreter and Scriba of the Magister Aranearius C. Minucius Scaevola.

Since this summer I was appointed as the Accensus of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar and worked together with his Consular Staff.

I had take an active part in the Sodalitas Latinitatis this year. I was an Undecimvir ad diploma Sodalitatis Latinitatis Retractandum, member of the Charter Review Commission in which we have discussed about the new Charter of the sodalitas. I have participated in the Latin translation of the new Charter too.

Besides these mostly virtual activities I have both organized and participated several reenactment events in Pannonia as Governor. According to my opinion the real life events and meeting of citizens to know better each other, are the heart of Nova Roma. I have met personally Nova Romans of other countries and in my provincia we organize a little meeting every second week at least. These activities are described in this document -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066
- I have mentioned above.

As for my personal believes: I am an old practicioner of the Religio Romana, I practiced it long before I knew Nova Roma. So it is a very important element in my Romanitas and I think first and foremost of the authenticy of the prayers. You could see this from my public Latin prayers published on this ML since this April.

I am not member of any political allience. I am a wholehearted republican, my ideals in the Roman political life are M. Tullius Cicero, P. Cornelius Lentulus Spinther, Q. Lutatius Catulus, L. Licinius Lucullus, M. Porcius Cato, L. Papirius Cursor, P. Cornelius Scipio and men thinking that way. I believe the total reconstruction of Rome as much as possible and reasonable.

Quirites, on these grounds I would like to ask your votes for the Quaestura as my first step in the Cursus Honorum: I will do the best for You as I have done in my present offices - or if I can - will do better. Omnia Pro Re Publica!

CN CORNELIVM LENTVLVM QVAESTOREM R. P. O. V. F.


VALTE QVAM OPTIME QVIRITES!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Modiane -

On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 02:55:24PM -0500, David Kling wrote:
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Cassio Philippo salutem dicit
>
> The call for candidates (that is, non-Plebian specific candidates) expired
> 8:00 PM (Roman time) on December 3rd.

Well, here's the rub: the candidacies _were_ submitted before that time
(at least if we assume that everyone followed the proper procedure of
notifying the Consules); however, given the number of calls for changes
in the positions for which the candidates volunteered, the desperate
necessity for people in those positions, and the fact that our laws do
not specify that the positions cannot be changed after the filing of the
candidacy, a couple of the candidates have volunteered to do what is
best for our Res Publica. Surely, Gai Fabi, this is the _last_ thing on
earth that we'd want to discourage?

I urge everyone concerned to consider the spirit of the relevant laws,
as well as the best interests of our Res Publica. I believe that, in
volunteering to shift their bids from their original ones, these
candidates are cleaving to the spirit of the Mos Maiorum in the finest
Roman tradition - and I, for one, appreciate it greatly.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tamdiu discendum est, quamdiu vivas.
We should learn as long as we may live. (We live and learn.)
-- Seneca Philosophus, "Epistulae"

Salve Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

Your desire to serve Nova Roma where she needs you is commendable as is that of M. Cassius Philippus who has also indicated he will serve where needed.

Under Nova Roma law if an magistracy is left with to few or no candidates after the end of the first call a second call must be made.
Our Consul are aware of this and will I am sure well be taking action soon on a second call.

While both of your announcements are a little premature they will not go unnoticed by the electorate I am sure.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus<mailto:cn_corn_lent@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:25 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus' Candidacy for Quaestor(?) [was: CHANGE IN DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY]


CN CORNELVS LENTVLVS: QVAESTOR CANDIDATVS: QVIRITIBVS: SPD:

Consules of the Republic! Quirites! I stand before You in my toga candida with a heavy doubt...
I have decided to run for Quaestor and (before the deadline) I sent my candidacy to the Consul Fr. Apulus. My candidacy was accepted and I prepared to write my Declaration and then I have seen the recent e-mails in which some of You had complained that many magistracies are still without enough candidates. This is an important problem and I thougt I may change my mind... The reason because I decided to run for Quaestor was that I thought that it is the best way I can serve You. But if the Republic needs other thing from me: I am willing to do that: I am willing to run for Custos (or Diribitor) - I am a patrician so the Plebeian Aedilitas is not possible for me.

So, Quirites, I publish here my Declaration, without so much as I would know what is Your bidding... I wanted to be a Quaestor thinking strongly that I would be an enthusiast and appropriate Quaestor. Tell me what do You suggest. To be a Quaestor as I would like and as I have stated registering myself through the Consul - or to change my candidacy. The other question (and this concerns the experts) can candidates change thier candidacy at all? Because M. Cassius Philippus expressed his desire to do so, but C. Buteo pontifex, Consul Candidatus has answered that it's illegeal... So please give me legal advice on it.

After these doubtfulnesses I would like to intruduce myself as a candidate for Quaestura(?):

DECLARATION OF CANDIDACY OF CN. CORNELIUS LENTULUS
http://novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=7694<http://novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=7694>

I am Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Hungarian, Nova Roman citizen of Pannonia Provincia. I study as a graduate student in the most important Hungarian university in the Latin Department, i.e. of classical studies, Latin and Greek languages, Roman history, literature, philosophy, religion and ancient cultures. I have a quite well knowledge in these matters so I can designate myself as an expert of the Romanitas.
Since I was child I felt myself Roman. When I was 16 I assumed the name Cn. Cornelius Lentulus together with my white toga virilis long before Nova Roma was burn, and I decided to live as a Roman and to do anything I could go nearer to the ancient Rome with. I have learned Latin I wore everyday Roman clothes at home etc... Later I founded a Roman reenactor association the Consociatio Hungarica Ad Rem Romanam Reficiundam, and I dreamed that someday I will find many people who think similarly to me and want to restore the Roman Republic.

...And, on Aprile 21 a year ago, I have found Nova Roma. I knew my dreams were realized: firstly I got in touch with Provincia Italia and experienced the orgainzation, then I joined in. In the first few months I didn't participate in the main list discussions, I kept the contact only with my italian friends, but later I joined in the Sodalitas Latinitatis and started to take part in the public life of our Republic.

My provincia, Pannonia was in the worst condition at the time, so I decided to reorganize and make it a real community.
On April 1 this year, the Senate appointed me as Propraetor of Pannonia and I started my work. If anybody is interested my propraetorial activities and real life events organized by me in the provioncia and the successes we have gained, You are invited to read my Edictum V. which contains the Annual Provincial Report of my Propraetorship:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066<http://groups.yahoocom/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066>
I think this proves my ability to the Quaestorial duties.


Besides my propraetorial duties I was appointed as Scriba of Aedilis L. Iulius Sulla and in this office I have organized the Ludi Megalenses Certamen Historcum (Historical Contest) during the Megalesia, and the Ludi Victoriae Sullanae Certamen Historicum.

I am one of the two Senior Scriba of A. Tullia Scholastica, official Latin interpreter and Scriba of the Magister Aranearius C. Minucius Scaevola.

Since this summer I was appointed as the Accensus of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar and worked together with his Consular Staff.

I had take an active part in the Sodalitas Latinitatis this year. I was an Undecimvir ad diploma Sodalitatis Latinitatis Retractandum, member of the Charter Review Commission in which we have discussed about the new Charter of the sodalitas. I have participated in the Latin translation of the new Charter too.

Besides these mostly virtual activities I have both organized and participated several reenactment events in Pannonia as Governor. According to my opinion the real life events and meeting of citizens to know better each other, are the heart of Nova Roma. I have met personally Nova Romans of other countries and in my provincia we organize a little meeting every second week at least. These activities are described in this document -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066<http://groups.yahoocom/group/Nova-Roma/message/40066>
- I have mentioned above.

As for my personal believes: I am an old practicioner of the Religio Romana, I practiced it long before I knew Nova Roma. So it is a very important element in my Romanitas and I think first and foremost of the authenticy of the prayers. You could see this from my public Latin prayers published on this ML since this April.

I am not member of any political allience. I am a wholehearted republican, my ideals in the Roman political life are M. Tullius Cicero, P. Cornelius Lentulus Spinther, Q. Lutatius Catulus, L. Licinius Lucullus, M. Porcius Cato, L. Papirius Cursor, P. Cornelius Scipio and men thinking that way. I believe the total reconstruction of Rome as much as possible and reasonable.

Quirites, on these grounds I would like to ask your votes for the Quaestura as my first step in the Cursus Honorum: I will do the best for You as I have done in my present offices - or if I can - will do better. Omnia Pro Re Publica!

CN CORNELIVM LENTVLVM QVAESTOREM R. P. O. V. F.


VALTE QVAM OPTIME QVIRITES!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

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