--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Gallagher" <spqr753@m...> wrote:

>
> Salve Romans
>
> Having worked with Julilla Sempronia as Tribune I know the quality

and the scope of her work

> and I firmly believe she will do outstanding job as she always has.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>

Gratias, my former colleague, for your kind words. You'll all turn my
head! May the gods give you good fortune, for no-one can deny your
passion to serve Nova Roma.

vale,

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

Salvete, Quirites:

The voting period for the Centuria Praerogativa *only* is past, and has
been for quite a while; however, I'd like to post a note regarding the
process so far because there seems to have been a lot of confusion in
regard to the appropriate voting periods.

The Diribitores have received well over a hundred votes during this
first period, when only the votes fron the Centuria Praerogativa were
valid. Out of all those votes, only _one_ was valid (unsurprising, since
there are only four people in that Centuria.) If you are not in Centuria
IX and voted during that first time slot, *please* make sure to vote
again - otherwise, your vote will not be counted.

Again, the voting times are:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
1800(GMT+1) Dec 12: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa *only* begins
1800(GMT+1) Dec 13: Rogatores capture tally of Centuria Praerogativa
1800(GMT+1) Dec 14: Voting by all First Class centuries now permitted
1800(GMT+1) Dec 16: Rogatores capture tally of all First Class centuries
1800(GMT+1) Dec 17: Voting by all centuries now permitted
1800(GMT+1) Dec 21: Voting ends
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Valete, quirites -
Caius Minucius Scaevola
Diribitor et Magister Aranearius
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Concordia parvae res crescunt, discordia maximae dilabuntur.
Through unity the small thing grows, through disunity the largest thing crumbles.
-- Sallust, "Jugurtha"

Salve, Q. Caecilius Metellus; salvete, omnes.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 01:10:53PM -0500, Q. Caecilius Metellus wrote:
> Q. Metellus Quiritibus sal.
>
> The votes cast with the following tracking codes for the Comitia
> Centuriata are all invalid. At this moment, voting is only open for the
> members of Century 9. If any of these tracking codes belong to you,
> please re-cast your vote at the proper voting time. For your
> convenience, I have reposted the schedule for the Comitia Centuriata
> after the tracking numbers.

[snip]

> COMITIA CENTURIATA
> ---------------
> 8:30 PM, XII Dec: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa *only* begins
> 8:30 PM, XIII Dec: Rogatores capture tally of Centuria Praerogativa
> 8:30 PM, XIV Dec: Voting by all First Class centuries now permitted
> 8:30 PM, XVI Dec: Rogatores capture tally of all First Class centuries
> 8:30 PM, XVII Dec: Voting by all centuries now permitted
> 8:30 PM, XXI Dec: Voting ends


Heh. Seems we ran over each other in trying to get the message to the
quirites. There's a bit of confusion in regard to the voting times - the
table that I've posted is incorrect; the one shown here, from Q.
Caecilius Metellus' email, has the correct times.


Valete, omnes -
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Libertas inaestimabilis res est.
Liberty is a thing beyond all price.
-- Corpus Iuris Civilis: Digesta

Salve M. Arminius et Equitius Marinus,

An realy interesting thing, thank you M. Arminius!

valete ,
V.V.Aestiva

M Arminius Maior <marminius@...> schrieb:
Salve

--- "CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Marinus)"
<gawne@...> escreveu:

> Vibia Vlpia Aestiva <aestiva2005@...> writes:
> > ...I have a little question about the
> > rural tribes like XV Velina, does anybody know
> > where they where situated?
>
> I don't think anything has survived in the historic
> record. We know that the tribes were based on

geography,

> as you say, but I've seen this question come up here

in

> the forum from time to time ever since I've been

here, and

> I can't recall anybody providing a good answer. It

would

> be wonderful if we had a map of how the rural tribes

were

> distributed, but I don't think such a map exists.
>
> Vale,
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

M.Arminius: The book of T.J. Cornell, "The Beginnings
of Rome", depicts such a map (page 382, only 14 tribes
are shown). Tribe Velina (numbered XV in Nova Roma
only) was the last tribe to be created, along with
Quirina, in 241 b.C., and was located in the Adriatic
litoral, near the city of Hadria.

Vale
M.Arminius








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

P. Memmius Albucius omnibusque s.d.


In view of the current elections in Comitia centuriata, I would want
to share with you some reflections. Not as a tribune, naturally, but
as a simple citizen.

First I think that we must be attentive to have the different «
political » sensibilities represented in our different magistracies ;
second, that it is better for the State that we elect experienced and
skilled cives ; third, that a very dedicated citizen, in various
fields, would not, however, necessary fit one or another particular
office ; fourth, that we should support these who have paid their tax
in the current year or have not resigned from their office.

CENSOR

I see, consulting our album civium, that one honorable candidate is
less experienced than the other. Despite his high qualities, Hon.
Minucius seems not having been yet aedile, praetor, or consul.
True, I hear some of us underlining Hon. Q. Fabius Maximus's
personality. Well, I do not know personnally Senator Maximus, but
think that he would not have been elected as consul and still seating
in the Senate if he did not deserve this honor.
So let us follow the ancient way, and vote for the most experienced
candidate.

CONSUL

We have two well known candidates, and two positions. If we would
hear some of us and look for « tradition, just tradition », we would
not imagine a woman running for consul, or any civil office. ;-)

But precisely, just to let understand everybody that we cannot
totally re-create the ancient Rome as it was, I will, even if I did
not everytime agreed with her positions, support Hon. Minucia's
candidacy, and wish at the same time to Hon. Modianus the best
success.


PRAETOR

I have a best choice, here : Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

I have appreciated a « square » man who really practices roman
values. He seems doing what he says and saying what he does. He has,
during my tribunate year, suffered what I consider as a deny of his
rights. It is time for Fortuna to smile again to Hon. Galerius.
Naturally, if two other candidates had so many skills that they would
first deserve the office, such a support would be uneasy. But I
believe that Hon. Galerius has, at least, the same will and
possibilities than Hon. Geminius and Octavius.

Valete omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius

F. Galerius Aurelianus P. Memmio Albucio. Salve.

PMA: First I think that we must be attentive to have the different «
political » sensibilities represented in our different magistracies ;
second, that it is better for the State that we elect experienced and
skilled cives ; third, that a very dedicated citizen, in various
fields, would not, however, necessary fit one or another particular
office ; fourth, that we should support these who have paid their tax
in the current year or have not resigned from their office.

CENSOR

I see, consulting our album civium, that one honorable candidate is
less experienced than the other. Despite his high qualities, Hon.
Minucius seems not having been yet aedile, praetor, or consul.
True, I hear some of us underlining Hon. Q. Fabius Maximus's
personality. Well, I do not know personnally Senator Maximus, but
think that he would not have been elected as consul and still seating
in the Senate if he did not deserve this honor.
So let us follow the ancient way, and vote for the most experienced
candidate.

FGA: Experience is a good quality in a candidate but talents and actions
that were sufficient in the past may not be what is best for the present. I
respect Q. Fabius Maximus, Senator and Pontifex, for what he has contributed to
Nova Roma in the past but I do not believe he is the person we need for the
office of Censor now. In addition to experience, one must also consider the
ability to compromise and adapt to change; the ability to stay cool during
discussions that can cause some individuals to loose control and post messages that
cannot be forgotten or ignored. There is no question that Senator Fabius
Maximus deserves to be numbered among the Conscript Fathers of Nova Roma. At the
moment, I believe that a different person could serve the Republic better.
I encourage all of our citizens to think long and well before casting your
ballot in the Cista. Since many votes will have to be cast again because of
misunderstandings about when voting is allowed, I hope that each new and recast
vote will be made with the future of Nova Roma foremost in the minds and hearts
of each citizen.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete fellow citizens,

I do not know how the ancient Romans felt about voting attitudes
interests or voter apathy but the main idea here is to get to your
computer and cast your votes. Who you choose for whatever reasons is
your business. All one needs to do is to get to the key boards and
mice and do a little typing and clicking which takes just a minute
or so and is so little to ask. You will not be facing thugs in the
alleys, wolves, barbarians along the road or bullies looking over
your shoulders at the polling stations waiting to gut or club you
for the wrong vote as well as spies sending your name to a tyrant's
proscription list.

It has been said in the past and repeated today; if you cannot be
bothered to vote then morally speaking you should have nothing to
say if the new admininstration does things you detest or not to your
liking.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus P. Memmio Albucio. Salve.
>
> PMA: First I think that we must be attentive to have the
different «
> political » sensibilities represented in our different
magistracies ;
> second, that it is better for the State that we elect experienced
and
> skilled cives ; third, that a very dedicated citizen, in various
> fields, would not, however, necessary fit one or another
particular
> office ; fourth, that we should support these who have paid their
tax
> in the current year or have not resigned from their office.
>
> CENSOR
>
> I see, consulting our album civium, that one honorable candidate
is
> less experienced than the other. Despite his high qualities, Hon.
> Minucius seems not having been yet aedile, praetor, or consul.
> True, I hear some of us underlining Hon. Q. Fabius Maximus's
> personality. Well, I do not know personnally Senator Maximus, but
> think that he would not have been elected as consul and still
seating
> in the Senate if he did not deserve this honor.
> So let us follow the ancient way, and vote for the most
experienced
> candidate.
>
> FGA: Experience is a good quality in a candidate but talents and
actions
> that were sufficient in the past may not be what is best for the
present. I
> respect Q. Fabius Maximus, Senator and Pontifex, for what he has
contributed to
> Nova Roma in the past but I do not believe he is the person we
need for the
> office of Censor now. In addition to experience, one must also
consider the
> ability to compromise and adapt to change; the ability to stay
cool during
> discussions that can cause some individuals to loose control and
post messages that
> cannot be forgotten or ignored. There is no question that Senator
Fabius
> Maximus deserves to be numbered among the Conscript Fathers of
Nova Roma. At the
> moment, I believe that a different person could serve the Republic
better.
> I encourage all of our citizens to think long and well before
casting your
> ballot in the Cista. Since many votes will have to be cast again
because of
> misunderstandings about when voting is allowed, I hope that each
new and recast
> vote will be made with the future of Nova Roma foremost in the
minds and hearts
> of each citizen.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVIII Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies nefastus
publicus est.

"The people again, on their part, are held in dependence on the
senate, both to the particular members, and to the general body. In
every part of Italy there are works of various kinds, which are let to
farm by the censors, such are the building or repairing of the public
edifices, which are almost innumerable; the care of rivers, harbors,
mines and lands; every thing, in a word, that falls beneath the
dominion of the Romans. In all these things the people are the
undertakers: inasmuch as there are scarcely any to be found that are
not in some way involved, either in the contracts, or in the
management of the works. For some take the farms of the censors at a
certain price; others become partners with the first. Some, again,
engage themselves as sureties for the farmers; and others, in support
also of these sureties, pledge their own fortunes to the state. Now,
the supreme direction of all these affairs is placed wholly in the
senate. The senate has the power to allot a longer time, to lighten
the conditions of the agreement, in case that any accident has
intervened, or even to release the contractors from their bargain, if
the terms should be found impracticable. There are also many other
circumstances in which those that are engaged in any of the public
works may be either greatly injured or greatly benefited by the
senate; since to this body, as we have already observed, all things
that belong to these transactions are constantly referred. But there
is still another advantage of much greater moment. For from this
order, likewise, judges are selected, in almost every accusation of
considerable weight, whether it be of a public or private nature. The
people, therefore, being by these means held under due subjection and
restraint, and doubtful of obtaining that protection, which they
foresee that they may at some time want, are always cautious of
exciting any opposition to the measures of the senate. Nor are they,
on the other hand, less ready to pay obedience to the orders of the
consuls; through the dread of that supreme authority, to which the
citizens in general, as well as each particular man, are obnoxious in
the field." - Polybius, Histories bk. VI


"The Roman youth [Romulus] could ill brook such insults, and matters
began to look like an appeal to force. To secure a favourable place
and time for such an attempt, Romulus, disguising his resentment, made
elaborate preparations for the celebration of games in honour of
'Equestrian Neptune,' which he called 'the Consualia.' He ordered
public notice of the spectacle to be given amongst the adjoining
cities, and his people supported him in making the celebration as
magnificent as their knowledge and resources allowed, so that
expectations were raised to the highest pitch." - Livy, History of
Rome 1.9

"Moreover, they assigned a precinct to the Equestrian Neptune and
instituted the festival called by the Arcadians Hippocrateia and by
the Romans Consualia, during which it is customary among the latter
for the horses and mules to rest from work and to have their heads
crowned with flowers." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities
1.32

"And the Romans even to my day continued to celebrate the festival
then instituted by Romulus, calling it the Consualia, in the course of
which a subterranean altar, erected near the Circus Maximus, is
uncovered by the removal of the soil round about it and honoured with
sacrifices and burnt-offerings of first-fruits and a course is run
both by horses yoked to chariots and by single horses. The god to whom
these honours are paid is called Consus by the Romans, being the same,
according to some who render the name into our tongue, as Poseidon
Seisichthon or the "Earth-shaker"; and they say that this god was
honoured with a subterranean altar because he holds the earth. I know
also from hearsay another tradition, to the effect that the festival
is indeed celebrated in honour of Neptune and the horse-races are held
in his honour, but that the subterranean altar was erected later to a
certain divinity whose name may not be uttered, who presides over and
is the guardian of hidden counsels; for a secret altar has never been
erected to Neptune, they say, in any part of the world by either
Greeks or barbarians. But it is hard to say what the truth of the
matter is." - op. cit. II.31


"Why is it that at festival of the Consualia they place garlands on
both the horses and the asses and allow them to rest?
Is it because they celebrate this festival in honour of Poseidon, god
of horses, and the ass enjoys a share in the horse's exemption? Or is
it that since navigation and transport by sea have been discovered,
pack animals have come to enjoy a certain measure of ease and rest?" -
Plutarch, Moralia, "Roman Questions" 48


Today is a celebration of the Consualia; held in honor of Consus, the
god of time and good counsel and/or Neptune Equestris --- they may
have been aspects of the same deity. The Temple of Consus is
uncovered on this day and opened to public worship. Horse races and
mule races were held in the Circus Maximus in his honor. As part of
the ceremonies, the rex sacrorum would appear in full garb riding his
horse-drawn chariot once around the Circus Maximus. Ordinary horses
and mules were not made to work, but were garlanded with flowers.

It was said that during the first celebration of the Consualia, the
Rape of the Sabine women occurred:

"Atque haec quidem perceleriter confecit; nam et urbem constituit,
quam e suo nomine Romam iussit nominari, et ad firmandam novam
civitatem novum quoddam et subagreste consilium, sed ad muniendas opes
regni ac populi sui magni hominis et iam tum longe providentis secutus
est, cum Sabinas honesto ortas loco virgines, quae Romam ludorum
gratia venissent, quos tum primum anniversarios in circo facere
instituisset Consualibus, rapi iussit, easque in familiarum
amplissimarum matrimoniis collocavit." - Cicero, de Republica, II.12

"Then, having laid his plan before the senate and gaining their
approval, he announced that he would hold a festival and general
assemblage in honour of Neptune, and he sent word round about to the
nearest cities, inviting all who wished to do so to be present at the
assemblage and to take part in the increases; for he was going to hold
contests of all sorts, both between horses and between men. section
4And when many strangers came with their wives and children to the
festival, he first offered the sacrifices to Neptune and held the
contests: then, on the last day, on which he was to dismiss the
assemblage, he ordered the young men, when he himself should raise the
signal, to seize all the virgins who had come to the spectacle, each
group taking those they should first encounter, to keep them that
night without violating their chastity and bring them to him the next
day. section 5So the young men divided themselves into several groups,
and as soon as they saw the signal raised, fell to seizing the
virgins; and straightway the strangers were in an uproar and fled,
suspecting some greater mischief. The next day, when the virgins were
brought before Romulus, he comforted them in their despair with the
assurance that they had been seized, not out of wantonness, but for
the purpose of marriage; for he pointed out that this was an ancient
Greek custom and that of all methods of contracting marriages for
women it was the most illustrious, and he asked them to cherish those
whom Fortune had given them for their husbands." - Dionysus of
Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities 2.30

"First, he [Romulus] gave it out as if he had found an altar of a
certain god hid under ground; the god they called Consus, either the
god of counsel (for they still call a consultation consilium, and
their chief magistrates consules, namely, counsellors), or else the
equestrian Neptune, for the altar is kept covered in the Circus
Maximus at all other times, and only at horse-races is exposed to
public view; others merely say that this god had his altar hid under
ground because counsel ought to be secret and concealed. Upon
discovery of this altar, Romulus, by proclamation, appointed a day for
a splendid sacrifice, and for public games and shows, to entertain all
sorts of people: many flocked thither, and he himself sat in front,
amidst his nobles clad in purple. Now the signal for their falling on
was to be whenever he rose and gathered up his robe and threw it over
his body; his men stood all ready armed, with their eyes intent upon
him, and when the sign was given, drawing their swords and falling on
with a great shout they ravished away the daughters of the Sabines,
they themselves flying without any let or hindrance. They say there
were but thirty taken, and from them the Curiae or Fraternities were
named; but Valerius Antias says five hundred and twenty-seven, Juba,
six hundred and eighty-three virgins: which was indeed the greatest
excuse Romulus could allege, namely, that they had taken no married
woman, save one only, Hersilia by name, and her too unknowingly; which
showed that they did not commit this rape wantonly, but with a design
purely of forming alliance with their neighbours by the greatest and
surest bonds." - Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Romulus"


Valete bene!

Cato




SOURCES

Polybius (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/polybius6.html),
Consualia
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA/home.html),
and (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consualia) and
(http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Dionysius_of_Halicarnassus/home.html)
and (http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/romulus.html)

A. Apollonius C. Minucio omnibusque sal.

What happens is something like this. A scholar who has
studied all the sources writes a book or an article
specifically about the Roman calendar, saying
something like "on dies nefasti the comitia could not
meet to vote, and the praetor could not conduct the in
jure phase of legal proceedings". Another scholar,
writing a more general book aimed at a less specialist
audience, knows that his readers won't necessarily
know what a meeting of the comitia is, or what the in
jure phase of legal proceedings are, so he summarizes
in less technical language like "on dies nefasti there
could be no legislation or legal business". A third
person, perhaps an amateur or a scholar writing a very
general book in which the matter is only touched on
very briefly, summarizes this too and says something
like "on certain days political and legal business was
forbidden".

So when Scullard says:

> "By contrast N stood for the dies nefasti, 58 days
> in the pre-Julian
> calendar, which were the opposite of the dies fasti:
> on them what was
> allowed on dies fasti and deis comitiales was
> banned, i.e. legal
> proceedings in the praetor's court and meetings of
> the comitia"

... he is perfectly correct. But you will notice that
he doesn't say "political business" or anything vague
like that: he says specifically that meetings of the
comitia and court-cases are the two types of activity
which are restricted. That leaves a lot of political
business which is not restricted.

Now, when he goes on to say:

> "A comitia, and the final proceding contio, could be
> held only on a dies
> comitialis, of which there were 195 in the year, the
> majority being in
> the second half of the month and often in immediate
> succession to one
> another. Comitia were not necessarily held on every
> dies comitialis, and
> on some such days they could not be held, namely on
> nundinae and the
> days on which feriae conceptivae or imperativae
> fell, while it would not
> be sensible to summon them on days when Ludi
> provided a counter-attraction."

It's important to notice that the reason "the final
preceding contio" can only be held on a dies
comitialis is because the final preceding contio
happens immediately before the start of voting, i.e.
on the same day. So obviously it cannot happen on any
day on which the voting itself can't take place.

His point about nundinae is correct but slightly
misleading, because technically wherever nundinae fall
they make the day into a dies fastus (according to the
lex Hortensia), so it is not a dies comitialis at all.
Likewise when a movable festival falls on a dies
comitialis it transforms it into, probably, a dies
nefastus publicus.

Scullard's is a book specifically about the Roman
calendar, so he can afford to go into some detail.
Schied's book, excellent though it is, is a slim
volume and covers a much broader area, so we see the
phenomenon of summarizing and generalizing which I
mentioned above.

We know that meetings of the senate were held on dies
nefasti, and we know that contiones were held on dies
nefasti. The idea that political business in general
was forbidden on dies nefasti is therefore patently
incorrect. For a full discussion, see Michels, "The
Calendar of the Roman Republic" (Princeton University
Press, 1967). You can also get what I modestly suggest
is a fairly useful summary here:

http://okopnik.freeshell.org/NR/dies.html

The latter document has, I would point out to you,
been in the hands of at least some pontifices for more
than a year.

Finally,

> I see no problem in asking citizens not to vote on
> those days. I was
> simply making a request. I was not threatening
> anyone nor did I intend
> to give the impression that either the Consuls or
> anyone who chose to
> vote on a dies nefasti was guilty of impietas.
> Perhaps I should have
> been more clear in my post, but I am simply asking
> citizens to wait
> until a dies fasti to vote out of respect for the
> Gods.

Yes, I know, and that's fair enough as far as it goes,
but I'm still interested to know why. Presumably
either voting on these days is harmful to the pax
deorum or it is not. If it is, then it must surely
constitute some sort of offence against religion. If
it is not, then I can't see why it should not be done.
I'm not encouraging people to ignore your request, or
saying that you were wrong to make it, I'm just
suggesting that you might care to explain te reason
for the request.



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Salvete Quirites.

It is with great pleasure that I publish this Edict making Lucius
Servilius Primus Scriba Propraetricis for Kansas. He has served as my
aide with great energy and dispatch almost from the moment of his joining
Nova Roma, and now that he has earned full citizenship and the right to
begin climbing the cursus honorum in earnest, I anticipate his continuing
service to the Provincia and devotion to the Res Publica.

Valete, et habitetis in luce deorum!
Salvia Sempronia Graccha Volentia
Propraetrix America Medioccidentalis Superior


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G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana SPD

Neil, can you e-mail me again, this time include your
e-mail address in the body of your message?

I can only send the Gmail invites to an individual edress.

The same goes for anyone else who would like to try Google's
visually clutter-free e-nmail environment. My amphora of
invites was recently topped up to overflowing. I am *really*
happy with my six months on Gmail.

Hit the e-mail button at the top of this page, then include:

SUBJECT LINE: NR Gmail invite

BODY: Your present e-mail address, or the edress you want
the invite sent to. (This cannot be a group edress.)

Valete bene, and soon . . .. Io Saturnalia :-)

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana optime Magistro Araneario
Caio Minucio Scaevolae omnibusque SPD.

I have been unable to access the Main List for a few days
because of the ***really obnoxious*** Flash ad that
Yahoo has been running for "The Island" DVD release.

The constant auto-reloading of such masses of data overloaded
what my serverus/computator antiquus was able to handle, and
all list functions froze while this (expletive deleted) ad
hijacked the list from me.

I e-mailed our Magister Aranearius, who e-mailed me a solution
that may interest others.

1) He recommends using Mozilla Firefox as the chosen browser.
(I do, and infinitely prefer it to Internet Explorer, though
I have both installed because some sites are only accessible
through IExplorer.) The latest version (Firefox 1.5) came out
at the end of November, and is a free download at
http://mozilla.org

2) From the http://mozilla.org website, he recommends
downloading a plug-in called "Flash Blocker". I found
the Mozilla home page a bit confusing, so just typed
"Flash Blocker" into the search bar. It's a short
download, even on dial-up.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!

Now I have (and you too can have) a modest little button
that appears in place of that/those (expletive deleted)
Flash videos. If you really wanna see'em, you push the
wee button. Otherwise, you and your system get to ignore
them completely.

Optime Magister C. Minuci Scaevolae, multas gratias Tibi ago!

And thank you for making it possible for our electronic
elections to take place. Senatus populusque Novae Romae
owes you . . .
See list of Roman virtues for further complements :-^

Vale, et valete omnes, in pace Deorum.

G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana

A. Apollonio Cordo C. Minucio Hadriano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

Corde, I find, in the midst of your paper, this sentence:

"This does not, of course, mean that they were not of religious
significance: they were so because the pontifices (or, according to
tradition, Numa) made them so; and they were indeed religiously
observed, as Michels shows, for none of the three principal comitia is
known ever to hav [sic] met except on a dies comitialis, except for
one which was subsequently declared invalid for that very reason."

So, after all is said and done, the one meeting of a principle comitia
which was held on a non-comitial day was held invalid precisely
because it met on a non-comitial day.



And, when you write:

"The second half of each month, after the Ides, is usually largely or
entirely comitialis except where it is interrupted by festivals,
suggesting that this time was deliberately set aside for legislation
and elections."

it is logical to make the step to assuming that these days were
deliberately set aside for elections and legislation precisely because
elections and legislation could not (or should not) occur on the days
which are non-comitial --- i.e., dies nefasti publici &c. --- with
which the first half of each month were full.

Valete bene,

Cato

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix A. Apollonio Cordo S.P.D.

Salve.

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius C. Minucio omnibusque sal.
>
>
> We know that meetings of the senate were held on dies
> nefasti, and we know that contiones were held on dies
> nefasti. The idea that political business in general
> was forbidden on dies nefasti is therefore patently
> incorrect. For a full discussion, see Michels, "The
> Calendar of the Roman Republic" (Princeton University
> Press, 1967). You can also get what I modestly suggest
> is a fairly useful summary here:
>
> http://okopnik.freeshell.org/NR/dies.html
>
> The latter document has, I would point out to you,
> been in the hands of at least some pontifices for more
> than a year.

Thank yo for your reply and book recommendation. I will definitely have
to track down a copy of "The Calendar of the Roman Republic". Perhaps
I'm being obtuse here (and If I am, I apologize), but as I understand
it, irrespective of other political activities, the holding of Comitia
was prohibited on dies nefasti. Even though our Comitiae last more than
one day, they are still Comitiae, and each day which voting is conducted
is therefore a Comitia. So if a Comitia would carry over onto a dies
nefasti, and Comitia are prohibited on dies nefasti, then it is logical
to conclude that either the Comitia must end before the start of the
dies nefasti or it must skip over to the next allowable day.

>
> Finally,
>
> Yes, I know, and that's fair enough as far as it goes,
> but I'm still interested to know why. Presumably
> either voting on these days is harmful to the pax
> deorum or it is not. If it is, then it must surely
> constitute some sort of offence against religion. If
> it is not, then I can't see why it should not be done.
> I'm not encouraging people to ignore your request, or
> saying that you were wrong to make it, I'm just
> suggesting that you might care to explain te reason
> for the request.

Ok, look at this way. You study Roman Religion from an academic
perspective. I do as well, as that is part of the reconstructionist
"pagan" methodology to ancient religions, but there comes a point when
the academic approach is no longer useful from a purely religious or
spiritual perspective. There are significant gaps in our knowledge of
the Religio Romana, especially when it comes to belief and spirituality
rather than practice. Most of our primary sources are Late Republic on,
a period when the Religio was in decline, and many of the Roman elites
had either developed a rather cynical view of Religion or were under the
influence of Hellenistic philosophy or other foreign beliefs. This is
especially true of the later writers, and we also have the problem of
how to interpret the writings of Christian apologists, who were
obviously biased in their views. I think this lack of information about
Roman spirituality, has caused an overemphasis on the rigid and
legalistic nature of the Religio, the focus on orthopraxy rather than
belief. Certainly ritual and religious law were of great importance to
the Romans, and thiner legalistic mindset had an enormous influence on
thiner ideas about religion, but in practicing Roman religion we need to
look at the spirit of the law as well as just the letter. Why did the
Romans do things the way they did? Why were comitia prohibited on dies
nefasti? What spiritual beliefs led to such a religious law being
created? It is my belief that voting on a dies nefasti is wrong, and is
disrespectful to the Gods. Even if technically under Nova Roman law it
is still allowed, I still feel that is not a good thing, and should be
avoided. So I am expressing my belief as advice to the Quirites. If I
had my way, we would have a Lex prohibiting voting on such days, and
perhaps someday we will, but right now we do not so all I can do is
express my official opinion that voting on dies nefasti is a bad idea
and should be avoided. Will it truly offend the Gods? Unless they send
us an auspicia oblativa, we really have no way of knowing, but my
interpretation of the spirit behind the ancient Roman prohibition on
holding comitia on dies nefasti is that it is conducting human business
on a day that should be set aside for respecting and worshiping the Gods.

I hope that answers your question, and I apologize if I'm not making
sense - I'm writing this as I'm halfway out the door for work, so it's
rushed.

Vale bene,

--
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos
Legate Massachusetts Regio
c.minucius.hadrianus@...

"What does it matter by which wisdom each of us arrives at the truth? It
is not possible that only road leads to so sublime a mystery."
- Quintus Aurelius Symmachus c. 340-c.402
"We are all, so far as we inherit the civilization of Europe,
still citizens of the Roman Empire, and time as not yet proved
Virgil wrong when he wrote /nec tempora pono: imperium sine fine dedi./"

-T.S. Eliot

"/His ego nec metas rerum nec tempora pono: imperium sine fine dedi./"

"For the achievement of these people I fix neither spatial boundaries or
temporal limits: I have given them empire without end."

-Virgil, /Aeneid/ I.278,279

A. Apollonius V. Ulpiae omnibusque sal.

Taylor's "Voting Districts" is, it turns out, a mine
of information on the ancient tribes! It contains
several maps - I have photocopied them, and I will try
to scan them for you.

About Velina, she says "The Velina was established in
the territory of the Praetutti on the Adriatic, also a
part of [M'.] Curius [Dentatus]' great conquest [of
290 B.C.], and became the tribe of most [of] adjoining
Picenum, subjugated in 268" (p. 59). She also suggests
that the tribe may originally have been based around
Reate and the Lacus Velinus, but been moved to the
Praetuttian territory in 241. She also suggests that
it was expanded to include Picenum by the lex Flaminia
of 232.

By the time of the Social War, tribus Velina also
included Cingulum, Cupra Maritima, Falerio, Pausulae,
Planina, Recina, Septempeda, Tolentinum, Trea, Castrum
Truentum, Urbs Salvia, Auximum, Potentia, and the two
Balearic towns of Pollentia and Palma. After the
Social War Firmum, Aquileia, Pistoriae, and the
Ligures in Samnium were added.

I hope that helps! I'll try to get those maps scanned soon.



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A. Apollonius C. Equitio omnibusque sal.

Ah, now this is precisely the sort of evidence-based
argument which is in order, and I don't doubt that the
pontifices will approach the matter in this sort of
way. You say:

> Corde, I find, in the midst of your paper, this
> sentence:
>
> "This does not, of course, mean that they were not
> of religious
> significance: they were so because the pontifices
> (or, according to
> tradition, Numa) made them so; and they were indeed
> religiously
> observed, as Michels shows, for none of the three
> principal comitia is
> known ever to hav [sic] met except on a dies
> comitialis, except for
> one which was subsequently declared invalid for that
> very reason."
>
> So, after all is said and done, the one meeting of a
> principle comitia
> which was held on a non-comitial day was held
> invalid precisely
> because it met on a non-comitial day.

Well, perhaps; I have gone back and looked at Michels
again, and I fear I may have misrepresented what
happened. The meeting we're talking about happened on
the 29th of December 67 B.C., which was normally
comitialis but was in that year the date of the
Compitalia and therefore nefastus publicus. The
resulting lex was, indeed, declared invalid by the
senate the following day. However, there was another
problem with the lex: there had not been a gap of 25
days (trinum nundinum) between its promulgatio and the
day of voting (there couldn't have been, because the
proposer, the tribune Manilius, had only entered
office on the 10th of December). Now, this was all
after the enactment of the lex Caecilia Didia of 98
B.C., which was the lex which laid down the
requirement of the trinum nundinum. It was that lex
which gave the senate the power to strike down leges
passed in defiance of the lex Caecilia Didia.

The power to strike down a lex had never been
possessed by the senate prior to the lex Caecilia
Didia (it had tried to do it once or twice anyway, but
that had been illegal). In fact the whole concept of a
procedural error resulting in the substantive legal
invalidity of a lex was totally alien to republican
thinking prior to about 100 B.C. - before that, it had
always been true that a lex enacted by the comitia was
fully valid even if there had been a procedural error
in the comitia.

So there were two problems with the lex Manilia, one
that it was enacted on a dies nefastus publicus, and
the other that it was enacted before a trinum nundinum
had passed. We don't know on which of those two
grounds the senate struck it down, or whether perhaps
it did so on both grounds. But it seems more likely
that it was actually on the grounds of breach of the
lex Caecilia Didia, because that is the only ground on
which the senate technically had the legal power to
strike down leges. At any rate, we can't be certain
whether, if the dies nefastus had been the *only*
problem, the lex would have been invalid or not. I
suspect that it would not; at any rate it is very
unlikely that it would have been invalid before 98
B.C., since as I said the concept of retrospective
invalidation of leges was more or less unknown before
that date.

> And, when you write:
>
> "The second half of each month, after the Ides, is
> usually largely or
> entirely comitialis except where it is interrupted
> by festivals,
> suggesting that this time was deliberately set aside
> for legislation
> and elections."
>
> it is logical to make the step to assuming that
> these days were
> deliberately set aside for elections and legislation
> precisely because
> elections and legislation could not (or should not)
> occur on the days
> which are non-comitial --- i.e., dies nefasti
> publici &c. --- with
> which the first half of each month were full.

Yes, but that's a circular argument. We already know
that legislation couldn't happen on dies non
comitiales, because legislation couldn't *begin* on
dies non comitiales, and legislation couldn't take
more than a day. It doesn't get us any further toward
knowing whether it was the beginning which was an
offence against religion or the whole process.



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A. Apollonius C. Minucio omnibusque sal.

> Thank yo for your reply and book recommendation. I
> will definitely have
> to track down a copy of "The Calendar of the Roman
> Republic". Perhaps
> I'm being obtuse here (and If I am, I apologize),
> but as I understand
> it, irrespective of other political activities, the
> holding of Comitia
> was prohibited on dies nefasti. Even though our
> Comitiae last more than
> one day, they are still Comitiae, and each day which
> voting is conducted
> is therefore a Comitia. So if a Comitia would carry
> over onto a dies
> nefasti, and Comitia are prohibited on dies nefasti,
> then it is logical
> to conclude that either the Comitia must end before
> the start of the
> dies nefasti or it must skip over to the next
> allowable day.

That's certainly one valid way of looking at it, but
it's not the only way. The alternative is this: we
know that what was actually prohibited on a dies
nefastus was for a magistrate to convene the comitia.
But what if the magistrate convened the comitia on a
dies comitialis, but the voting took so long that it
carried on into the next day which was not comitialis?
The problem is that we just don't know the answer,
because (as far as I know) it simply never happened.
Meetings of the comitia didn't carry on into the next
day, and that makes it rather difficult to say what
would have happened if they had.

The important thing to realize is that the Romans,
whether in civil or in religious law, didn't just say
"X is forbidden". They said "if Y does X then Z will
happen to him". They never prohibited states of
affairs, only actions. So they would not simply have
said that voting could not happen on a dies nefastus.
They would have said *who* could not vote and *what
would happen to them if they did*. Doing something
forbidden by religious law was always either expiable
or inexpiable. If it was inexpiable, the result was
that the person who did it would just have to suffer
the anger of the gods. If it was expiable, the person
who did it had to offer an expiation. There were no
other options, as far as I know. So if there was a
prohibition on voting on dies nefasti, that would mean
that anyone who voted on a dies nefastus would either
be liable to perform an expiation or would have to
suffer the gods' anger.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, as I've been
saying to C. Equitius, the Romans did not believe that
anything which was done in an improper way was
automatically improper in itself. A lex, for instance,
which was enacted under an improper procedure, was not
automatically invalid. So if a magistrate had convened
the comitia on a dies nefastus, we can't say for
certain that voting in that comitia would have been
forbidden by religious law. It is just as likely, if
not more likely, that once the initial offence of
convening the comitia had been committed, the rest was
irrelevant and could continue as normal. This may seem
strange, but it would not have seemed strange to a
Roman, and that's why we can't rule it out just
because it seems strange to us.

By analogy, we can look at what the praetores couldn't
do on dies nefasti. They couldn't conduct a certain
type of judicial proceeding. Q. Scaevola, the famous
lawyer and pontifex maximus, said that a praetor who
accidentally broke this rule could expiate his error,
but a praetor who deliberately broke the rule could
not expiate it. This suggests that praetores did
sometimes break the rule. And indeed it must have been
fairly common before 304, when the calendar was
published for the first time. So, if a praetor set up
his tribunal in the forum on a dies nefastus and
started taking legal cases, we know *he* would have
been committing an offence against religion, but what
about the people who came to plead their cases before
him. Would they have been doing anything wrong, or
not? We don't know, but there's no evidence that they
would have.

> Ok, look at this way. You study Roman Religion from
> an academic
> perspective. I do as well, as that is part of the
> reconstructionist
> "pagan" methodology to ancient religions, but there
> comes a point when
> the academic approach is no longer useful from a
> purely religious or
> spiritual perspective. There are significant gaps in
> our knowledge of
> the Religio Romana, especially when it comes to
> belief and spirituality
> rather than practice. Most of our primary sources
> are Late Republic on,
> a period when the Religio was in decline, and many
> of the Roman elites
> had either developed a rather cynical view of
> Religion or were under the
> influence of Hellenistic philosophy or other foreign
> beliefs. This is
> especially true of the later writers, and we also
> have the problem of
> how to interpret the writings of Christian
> apologists, who were
> obviously biased in their views. I think this lack
> of information about
> Roman spirituality, has caused an overemphasis on
> the rigid and
> legalistic nature of the Religio, the focus on
> orthopraxy rather than
> belief. Certainly ritual and religious law were of
> great importance to
> the Romans, and thiner legalistic mindset had an
> enormous influence on
> thiner ideas about religion, but in practicing Roman
> religion we need to
> look at the spirit of the law as well as just the
> letter. Why did the
> Romans do things the way they did? Why were comitia
> prohibited on dies
> nefasti? What spiritual beliefs led to such a
> religious law being
> created? It is my belief that voting on a dies
> nefasti is wrong, and is
> disrespectful to the Gods. Even if technically under
> Nova Roman law it
> is still allowed, I still feel that is not a good
> thing, and should be
> avoided. So I am expressing my belief as advice to
> the Quirites. If I
> had my way, we would have a Lex prohibiting voting
> on such days, and
> perhaps someday we will, but right now we do not so
> all I can do is
> express my official opinion that voting on dies
> nefasti is a bad idea
> and should be avoided. Will it truly offend the
> Gods? Unless they send
> us an auspicia oblativa, we really have no way of
> knowing, but my
> interpretation of the spirit behind the ancient
> Roman prohibition on
> holding comitia on dies nefasti is that it is
> conducting human business
> on a day that should be set aside for respecting and
> worshiping the Gods.

I take your point, and indeed working out the reason
behind the rule is precisely what you and your fellow
pontifices will need to do in order to resolve this
question. But, with the greatest possible respect, I
must point out that there is *some* historical
evidence on this point, and it is hard to reconcile it
with your faith-based interpretation. We know that
meetings of the senate were regularly held on dies
nefasti throughout the republican period, and indeed
that some of them were traditionally held on those
days (on the ides, for instance). That is hardly
compatible with the idea that conducting human
business on dies nefasti is wrong.

The problem is that you can't simply say that you
believe voting on a dies nefastus is wrong and leave
it at that. As I mentioned above, Roman religion never
said that such-and-such should not occur and left it
at that. Where there was a prohibition, there was also
a consequence of breaking the prohibition. If it is
forbidden by religious law (religious law being the
body of rules set forth by the pontifices) for a
private citizen to vote on a dies nefastus, then it
must follow that a private citizen who does vote on a
dies nefastus is committing some offence or trespass
which will either be expiable or inexpiable. If it's
expiable, the citizen who does it will need to know
how to expiate it; if it's inexpiable, it's quite
useful to know that too. If it is not an offence of
any kind, then it is not contrary to religious law,
and therefore it is not prohibited.

So my question really is "what is the status of your
advice?" Are you advising us that, in your opinion,
voting on a dies nefastus is an expiable offence? Or
an inexpiable offence? Or no offence at all? Or that
you're not sure and you recommend we should avoid
doing it just in case? Or that you would consider it a
personal favour to yourself if we could refrain from
doing it? The pontifices are not guardians of
morality: they are not there to say "X is wrong", and
a statement from a pontifex that "X is wrong" is
nothing more than an opinion about morality. What
people need and expect from pontifices is
authoritative statement of religious rules of conduct:
"X is an inexpiable offence against the gods", or
whatever. So I'm trying to take your statement "X is
wrong, please don't do it" and turn it into a
pontifical responsum which I can actually do something
with. At the moment I just don't know what it is. It's
not something that a Roman pontifex would say, or that
a Roman private citizen would be able to make head or
tail of. That's where I'm struggling, you see?



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Salve Apollonius Cordus et Quirites,

Thank you verry much! that helps me and answers all my questions, an interesting thing! :)


vale optime,
V.V.Aestiva

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> schrieb:
A. Apollonius V. Ulpiae omnibusque sal.

Taylor's "Voting Districts" is, it turns out, a mine
of information on the ancient tribes! It contains
several maps - I have photocopied them, and I will try
to scan them for you.

About Velina, she says "The Velina was established in
the territory of the Praetutti on the Adriatic, also a
part of [M'.] Curius [Dentatus]' great conquest [of
290 B.C.], and became the tribe of most [of] adjoining
Picenum, subjugated in 268" (p. 59). She also suggests
that the tribe may originally have been based around
Reate and the Lacus Velinus, but been moved to the
Praetuttian territory in 241. She also suggests that
it was expanded to include Picenum by the lex Flaminia
of 232.

By the time of the Social War, tribus Velina also
included Cingulum, Cupra Maritima, Falerio, Pausulae,
Planina, Recina, Septempeda, Tolentinum, Trea, Castrum
Truentum, Urbs Salvia, Auximum, Potentia, and the two
Balearic towns of Pollentia and Palma. After the
Social War Firmum, Aquileia, Pistoriae, and the
Ligures in Samnium were added.

I hope that helps! I'll try to get those maps scanned soon.



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---------------------------------
Sarah Connor, Moshammer oder Papst Benedikt – die Top-Suchen 2005.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana; salvete, omnes.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 11:19:01AM -0000, G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana wrote:
> G. Aurelia Falconis Silvana optime Magistro Araneario
> Caio Minucio Scaevolae omnibusque SPD.
>
> I have been unable to access the Main List for a few days
> because of the ***really obnoxious*** Flash ad that
> Yahoo has been running for "The Island" DVD release.
>
> The constant auto-reloading of such masses of data overloaded
> what my serverus/computator antiquus was able to handle, and
> all list functions froze while this (expletive deleted) ad
> hijacked the list from me.
>
> I e-mailed our Magister Aranearius, who e-mailed me a solution
> that may interest others.
>
> 1) He recommends using Mozilla Firefox as the chosen browser.
> (I do, and infinitely prefer it to Internet Explorer, though
> I have both installed because some sites are only accessible
> through IExplorer.) The latest version (Firefox 1.5) came out
> at the end of November, and is a free download at
> http://mozilla.org
>
> 2) From the http://mozilla.org website, he recommends
> downloading a plug-in called "Flash Blocker". I found
> the Mozilla home page a bit confusing, so just typed
> "Flash Blocker" into the search bar. It's a short
> download, even on dial-up.
>
> PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!

[smile] I'm very glad that I could help.

> Now I have (and you too can have) a modest little button
> that appears in place of that/those (expletive deleted)
> Flash videos. If you really wanna see'em, you push the
> wee button. Otherwise, you and your system get to ignore
> them completely.
>
> Optime Magister C. Minuci Scaevolae, multas gratias Tibi ago!

Nihil est, cara amica!

> And thank you for making it possible for our electronic
> elections to take place. Senatus populusque Novae Romae
> owes you . . .
> See list of Roman virtues for further complements :-^

[laugh] Much appreciated.


Optime vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ars longa, vita brevis.
Art is long, life is short.
-- Seneca, "De brevitate vitae"

Q. Metellus Quiritibus sal.

As the voting period allowing votes of only the Centuria Praerogativa
has ended, at the moment, the votes cast during that period leave the
following results:

For Consul:

Both Fabius Buteo and Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia have the vote of the
Centuria Praerogativa.

For Censor:

Minucius Hadrianus Felix currently is carrying the vote of this century.

For Praetor:

Octavius Pius and Galerius Paulinus currently have the vote of the century.

On Constitutional Amendment I:

At this time, the vote of this century is tied on the first amendment.

On Constitutional Amendment II:

At this time, the century votes in favor of this amendment.

On the Lex Apula de Assiduis et Capiti Censis:

The vote of the century is currently tied on this proposal.

On the Lex Apula de Magistro Araneario:

The vote of the century currently goes against this proposal.


Presently, voting is only open to members of the First Class, which
comprises the centuries from 1-15, until 8:30pm tomorrow, Central
European Time.

Optime Valete,

Q. Caecilius Metellus,
Diribitor

Salvete Quirites!

I have just voted for Caius Curius Saturninus and Titus Octavius Pius
Ahenobarbus as Praetores. The Res Publica is lucky to have two such
qualified candidates for the Praetorship.

Caius Curius Saturninus is the co-founder of the Academia Thules and
has been working hard to build it and still is working hard to make
it even better. All student in the Academia knows that this work is
important and to make the Res Publica a better place. He has been
Scriba and Accensus of many magistrates and also served as a Legate
in Provincia Thules, he is now Propraetor Thules and I am sure he
will continue to build it to one of Europe's strongest Provinciae.
Further he has has been elected (Consular) Quaestor and Tribune. He
is one of those who always do excellent work if elected or appointed
to a position. I wholeheartedly recommend You to vote for Caius
Curius Saturninus as Praetor!

Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus has been Scriba and Accensus to many
magistrates. He has at times worked behind the scenes well beyond the
call of duty, as when he saved last years elections! Titus Pius
would never let the Res Publica down and he has proven that he never
will. He has served as Senior Legatus (now called Quaestor Provincia
Thules) of Thule and has been Sacerdos Provincia Thules for more than
a year because of his great interest in the Religio Romana. As the
Praeco Aranei Thules (Provincial web-master) he has taken good care
of the provincial web-site for about five year now. Titus Pius has
been elected (Consular) Quaestor and Curator Araneum (as the
web-master was called at the time). I know the Res Publica needs
Titus Octaius Pius Ahenobarbus, please vote for him as Praetor!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFBQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete, omnes -

I just received this via the NR "email the magistrates" page;
unfortunately, I do not recall who it was that offered the flags for
sale, so I'm forwarding it here.


----- Forwarded message from fcil@... -----

From: fcil@...
To: ben@...
Subject: (to webmaster) flags
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:25:50 -0600 (CST)

** This message was sent via http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php

hi
can you put me in touch with the person who sells the "SPQR" flag
thank you

----- End forwarded message -----


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat.
Great is the power of truth that can easily defend itself with its own force.
-- N/A

SALVETE QUIRITES !

Sure all the candidates are the best citizens of Nova Roma. Congratulations to all for their dedication to serve the Republic.
I have only one criterion for the candidates support. The honour to work together in this year.
Without more words, because they are wellknown citizens, but with three specific Roman Virtues in profile ( and this is my personal point of view ), my support are going to :

1. Censor - Quintus Fabius Maximus - Severitas, Dignitas and Humanitas.

2. Consul - Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo - Firmitas, Industria and Pietas.

3. Praetor - Tiberius Galerius Paulinus - Humanitas, Honestas and Industria.
Caius Curius Saturninus - Auctoritas, Firmitas and Industria.

4. Quaestor - Gnaeus Iulius Caesar - Auctoritas, Dignitas and Firmitas.
Marcus Iulius Perusianus - Honestas, Industria and Veritas.
Aulus Apollonius Cordus - Humanitas, Prudentia and Pietas.
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus - Dignitas, Gravitas and Pietas.
Quintus Fabius Allectus - Honestas, Veritas and Comitas.

5. Editor Commentariorium - Marcus Cassius Philippus - Honestas,Veritas and Frugalitas.

6. Rogator - Aula Tullia Scholastica - Auctoritas, Firmitas and Industria.
Marcus Iulius Severus - Severitas, Veritas and Firmitas.

7. Diribitor - Lucius Rutilius Minervalis - Gravitas, Frugalitas and Prudentia.
Franciscus Apulus Caesar - Dignitas, Firmitas and Industria.

8. Custos - Emilia Curia Finnica - Auctoritas,Firmitas and Industria.

I want to add my recomandations for :

1. Aedilis Plebis - Julilla Sempronia Magna - Dignitas, Humanitas and Industria.

2. Tribunus Plebis - Gnaeus Salvius Astur - Dignitas, Comitas and Pietas.
Quintus Suetonius Paulinus - Honestas, Prudentia and Veritas.
Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus - Pietas, Humanitas and Honestas.

And for all candidates : Virtus, Genius and Concordia.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

PS. For new citizens :
http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html










"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus wrote:

> Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus has been Scriba and Accensus
> to many magistrates. [...] I know the Res Publica needs Titus
> Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, please vote for him as Praetor!

Salve, Caeso Fabi Buteo Quintiliane.

Thank you for your kind words, your endorsement and your vote. I will
not let you down, should the people elect me!

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola

I was the one who mentioned that I was planning to offer for sale modern 3 by 5 Nova Roma flags.

Two problems have come up since I announced this. One is very few people on the main list expressed any interest in the flags and no one seems to have the Nova Roma flag art work on disk.

As soon as these issues are resolved I will be placing an order for flags.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik<mailto:ben@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR flags


Salvete, omnes -

I just received this via the NR "email the magistrates" page;
unfortunately, I do not recall who it was that offered the flags for
sale, so I'm forwarding it here.


----- Forwarded message from fcil@...<mailto:fcil@...> -----

From: fcil@...<mailto:fcil@...>
To: ben@...<mailto:ben@...>
Subject: (to webmaster) flags
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:25:50 -0600 (CST)

** This message was sent via http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php<http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php>

hi
can you put me in touch with the person who sells the "SPQR" flag
thank you

----- End forwarded message -----


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat.
Great is the power of truth that can easily defend itself with its own force.
-- N/A


SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient+history&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=fjrrfWGmNj-9VzE29-5RqQ> Fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=o-616ER_E9HbAgY7S7bgGA> The fall of the roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=3ssQInnLWGqC1FVNATfGNQ>
Roman empire<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Roman+empire&w1=Ancient+history&w2=Fall+of+the+roman+empire&w3=The+fall+of+the+roman+empire&w4=Roman+empire&c=4&s=103&.sig=JnsqrFDC8rUYfVpJVe3Qiw>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus -

On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 05:41:40PM -0500, Tim Gallagher wrote:
> Salve Caius Minucius Scaevola
>
> I was the one who mentioned that I was planning to offer for sale modern 3 by 5 Nova Roma flags.
>
> Two problems have come up since I announced this. One is very few
> people on the main list expressed any interest in the flags and no one
> seems to have the Nova Roma flag art work on disk.
>
> As soon as these issues are resolved I will be placing an order for flags.

OK. You might want to contact the fellow who asked for the info and tell
him this - his email address is in the quoted content, just below.

> ----- Forwarded message from fcil@...<mailto:fcil@...> -----
>
> From: fcil@...<mailto:fcil@...>
> To: ben@...<mailto:ben@...>
> Subject: (to webmaster) flags
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:25:50 -0600 (CST)
>
> ** This message was sent via http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php<http://www.novaroma.org/contact.php>
>
> hi
> can you put me in touch with the person who sells the "SPQR" flag
> thank you
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Aquila non captat muscas.
The eagle doesn't capture flies.
-- N/A

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@y...>
scripsit:

>
> I want to add my recomandations for :
>
> 1. Aedilis Plebis - Julilla Sempronia Magna - Dignitas, Humanitas

and Industria.

Gratias, you are very kind indeed. It is good to see our sacred
virtues applied in this manner. I try to behave according to the
Virtues, though I often think that my personal dignitas gives way to
comitas as soon as I open my mouth!

I will endeavour to serve with all the virtues foremost in mind.

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna

SALVE DOMINA !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<julilla@v...> wrote:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus

<iulius_sabinus@y...>

> scripsit:
> > I want to add my recomandations for :
> > 1. Aedilis Plebis - Julilla Sempronia Magna - Dignitas,

Humanitas and Industria.

> Gratias, you are very kind indeed. It is good to see our sacred
> virtues applied in this manner. I try to behave according to the
> Virtues, though I often think that my personal dignitas gives way

to comitas as soon as I open my mouth!>>>>>

And I realy belive that ! I'm sure that a lot of nova romani have
that nice virtue, comitas.
All my respect Julilla Sempronia for your wonderful job to the net
and many greetings to you, your family and esspecially to your son.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Severus Sabino omnibusque sal.

Salve Sabine amice, I just want to thank you for your endorsement and
your kind words. I will carry out my best effort to deserve the
confidence of those who vote for me, so much if I am elected, as if I am
not.

Vale et valete optime,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

--
_______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

Powered by Outblaze


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Thus, while each of these separate parts is enabled either to assist
or obstruct the rest, the government, by the apt contexture of them
all in the general frame, is so well secured against every accident,
that it seems scarcely possible to invent a more perfect system. For
when the dread of any common danger, that threatens from abroad,
constrains all the orders of the state to unite together, and
co-operate with joint assistance; such is the strength of the republic
that as, on the one hand, no measures that are necessary are
neglected, while all men fix their thoughts upon the present exigency;
so neither is it possible, on the other hand, that their designs
should at any time be frustrated through the want of due celerity,
because all in general, as well as every citizen in particular, employ
their utmost efforts to carry what has been determined into execution.
Thus the government, by the very form and peculiar nature of its
constitution, is equally enabled to resist all attacks, and to
accomplish every purpose. And when again all apprehensions of foreign
enemies are past, and the Romans being now settled in tranquility, and
enjoying at their leisure all the fruits of victory, begin to yield to
the seduction of ease and plenty, and, as it happens usually in such
conjunctures, become haughty and ungovernable; then chiefly may we
observe in what manner the same constitution likewise finds in itself
a remedy against the impending danger. For whenever either of the
separate parts of the republic attempts to exceed its proper limits,
excites contention and dispute, and struggles to obtain a greater
share of power, than that which is assigned to it by the laws, it is
manifest, that since no one single part, as we have shown in this
discourse, is in itself supreme or absolute, but that on the contrary,
the powers which are assigned to each are still subject to reciprocal
control, the part, which thus aspires, must soon be reduced again
within its own just bounds, and not be suffered to insult or depress
the rest. And thus the several orders, of which the state is framed,
are forced always to maintain their due position: being partly
counter-worked in their designs; and partly also restrained from
making any attempt, by the dread of falling under that authority to
which they are exposed." - Polybius, Histories bk. VI


Today is a feast of the Liquefaction of the Blood of S. Ianuarius (San
Gennaro) in Naples, Italy. S. Ianuarius is believed to have been
martyred during the great persecutions of the emperor Diocletian, but
almost nothing is known about him for certain. A sealed glass vial
containing a dark unknown substance, allegedly the clotted blood of
San Gennaro (St Januarius), is shown to thousands of Neopolitans in
the Duomo di San Gennaro. Whilst the container is being handled during
a solemn ceremony, the solid mass suddenly liquefies before
everybody's eyes.

The Neapolitans traditionally have had it rough. In the 20th century
alone, the city suffered volcanoes, earthquakes and cholera epidemics,
so it's no wonder that the people still turn to San Gennaro for advice
about the future. Twice a year city residents flock to the Duomo to
inspect a vial of the saint's blood. The Archbishop brings out the
miraculous relic from its shrine and lifts it high before the hushed
and expectant crowd. The cry "San Gennaro, fa dunque presto!" ("Do it
quickly!") is often heard as the anxious seconds turn into minutes. If
the blood liquefies --- a dramatic phenomenon that baffles even modern
science --- all is well and the Neapolitans erupt in jubilation. If it
remains congealed, then they fear the omen of disaster.

The phial is kept in a safe in Naples Cathedral and taken to the high
altar amid prayers and invocations. The announcement of the
liquefaction is greeted with a 21-gun salute at the 13th-century
Castel Nuovo. The first recorded reference to the "miracle of the
blood" was in A.D. 1389. Disasters which are reputed to have struck
when the blood failed to liquefy include the plague of 1527, in which
tens of thousands died, and the earthquake in southern Italy in 1980,
that killed 3,000.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Polybius, San Gennaro
(http://www.whatsontheplanet.com/wow/ptnr/rci/page.jsp?fx=event&event_id=80793)
ans (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/12250)

Salve bene Tite Sabine

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus
<iulius_sabinus@y...> wrote:
<snippet>

>2. Tribunus Plebis - Gnaeus Salvius Astur - Dignitas, Comitas and

Pietas.

> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus -

Honestas, Prudentia and Veritas.

> Marcus Moravius Piscinus

Horatianus - Pietas, Humanitas and Honestas.

>
> And for all candidates : Virtus, Genius and Concordia.
>

Gratias maximas, mi amice. You are much too kind. I shall endeavor
to live up to the virtues you ascribe to me, whether serving in an
office or otherwise.

Di Deaeque te bene ament
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

Salve Sabinus,

5. Editor Commentariorium - Marcus Cassius Philippus - Honestas, Veritas and Frugalitas.

Thank you for your kind words, endorsement and vote. Senator Audens did an outstanding job and it will certainly be hard to fill his "shoes". I will do my best to do so if given the responsibility.

Vires et honos,
Marcus Cassius Philippus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can ANYONE tell me why there is a worm in Tequila? Im
being serious, thanks.

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
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Salve

According to wikipedia

"It is a common misconception among foreigners that some tequilas
contain a 'worm' in the bottle. Only certain mezcals, usually from the
state of Oaxaca, are ever sold con gusano, and that only began as a
marketing gimmick in the 1940s. The worm is actually the larval form
of the moth Hipopta agavis that lives on the agave plant. Finding one
in the plant during processing indicates an infestation and,
correspondingly, a lower quality product."

and

"The worm in the mezcal bottle is a marketing gimmick. The worm is
actually the caterpillar Hypopta agavis. The originator of this
practice was a man named Jacobo Lozano Páez. In 1940, while tasting
prepared agave, he and his partner found that the worm changed the
taste of the agave. (Agave worms are sometimes found in the piña after
harvesting, a sign of badly chosen, infested, agave). Brands of mezcal
that contain the worm include 'Gusano de Oro', 'Gusano Rojo', 'Monte
Alban', and 'Dos Gusanos'. Contrary to public belief, tequila is, by
law, not allowed to contain the worm."

Vale

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum

On 12/16/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
> Can ANYONE tell me why there is a worm in Tequila? Im
> being serious, thanks.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen

Salvete Quirites

I shall await until Tuesday, dies comitialis, to cast my votes, as I
believe, along with pontifices Fabius Modianus and Hadrianus, that
this is proper for a gentilis Romanus.

Reviewing the candidates I notice several whom I regard as amici and
as associates with whom I have worked years earlier or more recently
at Academia Thules and in the cohors of Censor Fabius Buteo. I
offer my support to those whom I know personally shall best serve
the Quirites Novae Romanae.


Comitia Centuriata:

Censor: Pontifex Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix, an excellent
candidate for censor whose pietas I respect.

Consul: cara amica mia from long ago Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo
and my more recent friend and associate Pontifex Gaius Fabius Buteo
Modianus, who is one of the few Nova Romani I have met in person and
with whom I have worked in the Officina Census.

Praetor: Caius Curius Saturninus and Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus


Comitia Populi Tributa:

Aedilis Curulis: mi amicus carus Titus Iulius Sabinus

Quaestor: A. Apollonius Cordus and Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

Rogator: Aula Tullia Scholastica, who has been most helpful to me in
sodalitas Valetudinus and eslewhere

Diribitor: Franciscus Apulus Caesar

Custos: Emilia Curia Finnica


Comitia Plebis Tributa:

Tribunus Plebis: an old acquaintance, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, with
whom I have worked in Academia Thules, an old friend Marcus Arminius
Maior, and Quintus Suetonius Paulinus, who I first met as one of my
discipuli in Academia Thules

Aedilis Plebis: Julilla Sempronia Graccha, whose website I visit
regularly


Di Deaeque vos bene ament
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

C. Minucius Hadrianus Felix A. Apollonio Cordo S.P.D.

Salve amice.

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius C. Minucio omnibusque sal.
>
> > Thank yo for your reply and book recommendation. I
> > will definitely have
> > to track down a copy of "The Calendar of the Roman
> > Republic". Perhaps
> > I'm being obtuse here (and If I am, I apologize),
> > but as I understand
> > it, irrespective of other political activities, the
> > holding of Comitia
> > was prohibited on dies nefasti. Even though our
> > Comitiae last more than
> > one day, they are still Comitiae, and each day which
> > voting is conducted
> > is therefore a Comitia. So if a Comitia would carry
> > over onto a dies
> > nefasti, and Comitia are prohibited on dies nefasti,
> > then it is logical
> > to conclude that either the Comitia must end before
> > the start of the
> > dies nefasti or it must skip over to the next
> > allowable day.
>
> That's certainly one valid way of looking at it, but
> it's not the only way. The alternative is this: we
> know that what was actually prohibited on a dies
> nefastus was for a magistrate to convene the comitia.
> But what if the magistrate convened the comitia on a
> dies comitialis, but the voting took so long that it
> carried on into the next day which was not comitialis?
> The problem is that we just don't know the answer,
> because (as far as I know) it simply never happened.
> Meetings of the comitia didn't carry on into the next
> day, and that makes it rather difficult to say what
> would have happened if they had.

You make a good point. The problem was that we had not worked all this
out beforehand, and as you have pointed out it is not quite so clear cut
a situation as we might have first thought.

>
> The important thing to realize is that the Romans,
> whether in civil or in religious law, didn't just say
> "X is forbidden". They said "if Y does X then Z will
> happen to him". They never prohibited states of
> affairs, only actions. So they would not simply have
> said that voting could not happen on a dies nefastus.
> They would have said *who* could not vote and *what
> would happen to them if they did*. Doing something
> forbidden by religious law was always either expiable
> or inexpiable. If it was inexpiable, the result was
> that the person who did it would just have to suffer
> the anger of the gods. If it was expiable, the person
> who did it had to offer an expiation. There were no
> other options, as far as I know. So if there was a
> prohibition on voting on dies nefasti, that would mean
> that anyone who voted on a dies nefastus would either
> be liable to perform an expiation or would have to
> suffer the gods' anger.
>
> The other thing to bear in mind is that, as I've been
> saying to C. Equitius, the Romans did not believe that
> anything which was done in an improper way was
> automatically improper in itself. A lex, for instance,
> which was enacted under an improper procedure, was not
> automatically invalid. So if a magistrate had convened
> the comitia on a dies nefastus, we can't say for
> certain that voting in that comitia would have been
> forbidden by religious law. It is just as likely, if
> not more likely, that once the initial offence of
> convening the comitia had been committed, the rest was
> irrelevant and could continue as normal. This may seem
> strange, but it would not have seemed strange to a
> Roman, and that's why we can't rule it out just
> because it seems strange to us.

That is certainly something we will need to consider.

> So my question really is "what is the status of your
> advice?" Are you advising us that, in your opinion,
> voting on a dies nefastus is an expiable offence? Or
> an inexpiable offence? Or no offence at all? Or that
> you're not sure and you recommend we should avoid
> doing it just in case? Or that you would consider it a
> personal favour to yourself if we could refrain from
> doing it? The pontifices are not guardians of
> morality: they are not there to say "X is wrong", and
> a statement from a pontifex that "X is wrong" is
> nothing more than an opinion about morality. What
> people need and expect from pontifices is
> authoritative statement of religious rules of conduct:
> "X is an inexpiable offence against the gods", or
> whatever. So I'm trying to take your statement "X is
> wrong, please don't do it" and turn it into a
> pontifical responsum which I can actually do something
> with. At the moment I just don't know what it is. It's
> not something that a Roman pontifex would say, or that
> a Roman private citizen would be able to make head or
> tail of. That's where I'm struggling, you see?

Fair enough. My post was not an official responsum from the CP, as it
was not discussed or voted on within the Collegium and I should have
made that clear from the outset. My view would most closely follow your
statement "Or that you're not sure and you recommend we should avoid
doing it just in case?" Since there is so much confusion and differences
of opinion on the issue, I would rather see citizens err on the side of
caution until we can figure out the best way to deal with this. As you
have mentioned, that this was not a problem that the ancient Romans had
to deal with, so there is no clear-cut historical solution. The CP needs
to spend sometime going over all of the evidence and decide how we will
handle with such issues in the future - before they happen hope =).
Another problem we face is that the role of the CP within Nova Roma does
not *exactly* parallel the CP of ancient Rome, partially because Nova
Roma operates under a far different set of circumstances than ancient
Rome. We are still trying to establish the proper balance the historical
model of the CP and the realities of Nova Roma and until we do, it makes
resolving issues of this sort in a timely fashion all the more
difficult. Hopefully Pontifex Gn. Salvius's work on the roles and duties
of the various priesthoods within NR will go a long way to addressing this.

Vale bene,
--
Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix
Pontifex et Minervae Aedis Sacerdos
Legate Massachusetts Regio
c.minucius.hadrianus@...

"What does it matter by which wisdom each of us arrives at the truth? It
is not possible that only road leads to so sublime a mystery."
- Quintus Aurelius Symmachus c. 340-c.402
"We are all, so far as we inherit the civilization of Europe,
still citizens of the Roman Empire, and time as not yet proved
Virgil wrong when he wrote /nec tempora pono: imperium sine fine dedi./"

-T.S. Eliot

"/His ego nec metas rerum nec tempora pono: imperium sine fine dedi./"

"For the achievement of these people I fix neither spatial boundaries or
temporal limits: I have given them empire without end."

-Virgil, /Aeneid/ I.278,279

Women lived and worked in Roman military forts, according to a telltale
trail of lost hairpins and beads.

This dispels the notion the forts were male-only domains, says
archaeologist Dr Penelope Allison of the Australian National University

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1529248.htm

Flavia Lucilla Merula

--
Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mezcal and pulque are considered to be the drinks of the Plebeian Order in Mexico, with wines and anejas tequilas being the drink of the Patricians. However, mezcal and pulque are hardy beverages not for those with weak constitutions or fussy palates. While wines (introduced to the New World by Galeri from Hispania & Lusitania after the 2nd Punic War) and aged tequilas can be appreciated by the Plebs, it is mezcal and pulque that puts the fire in their bellies and the spring in their step (and occasionally thunder in their heads).

F. Galerius "Sancho" Aurelianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Domitius Constantinus Fuscus <dom.con.fus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:06:41 +0100
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Off Topic...


Salve

According to wikipedia

"It is a common misconception among foreigners that some tequilas
contain a 'worm' in the bottle. Only certain mezcals, usually from the
state of Oaxaca, are ever sold con gusano, and that only began as a
marketing gimmick in the 1940s. The worm is actually the larval form
of the moth Hipopta agavis that lives on the agave plant. Finding one
in the plant during processing indicates an infestation and,
correspondingly, a lower quality product."

and

"The worm in the mezcal bottle is a marketing gimmick. The worm is
actually the caterpillar Hypopta agavis. The originator of this
practice was a man named Jacobo Lozano Páez. In 1940, while tasting
prepared agave, he and his partner found that the worm changed the
taste of the agave. (Agave worms are sometimes found in the piña after
harvesting, a sign of badly chosen, infested, agave). Brands of mezcal
that contain the worm include 'Gusano de Oro', 'Gusano Rojo', 'Monte
Alban', and 'Dos Gusanos'. Contrary to public belief, tequila is, by
law, not allowed to contain the worm."

Vale

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum

On 12/16/05, raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@...> wrote:
> Can ANYONE tell me why there is a worm in Tequila? Im
> being serious, thanks.
>
> S P Q R
>
> Fidelis Ad Mortem.
>
> Marcvs Flavivs Fides
> Roman Citizen




Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Not only the Plebeian Order used and uses to drink mezcal in Mexico: many
upper class hacendados (owners of haciendas, huge rural properties
reminiscent of Middle Age feudal fiefdoms) delighted their palates with
mezcal añejo (old mezcal), its price being well above the economic
resources of low class people...

And, of course, never has been a worm in tequila...

Valete optime,

M•IVL•SEVERVS

SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
PROVINCIA•MEXICO•NOVƕROMƕSPQR

--
_______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

Powered by Outblaze


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE OMNES!

There were said many things during the campaign and even more could
be said. One thing is certain: all the candidates proved their
concern for this organization and its citizens; they all deserve
equal respect for this. Also, what we should appreciate is the team
work and the attempts and efforts made together by some citizens in
order to accede a superior level for all of us.

I would like to express my appreciation for the following candidates:

Consul – Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo.

Censor- Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix ( I would like to thank him
for something which he did about 2 years ago; he is the one who told
me about this wonderful organization. The dreams that I had then are
now reality. Thank you, amice! )

Praetor – Caius Curius Saturninius

Aedilis – Curulis : Both Equitius Cato and Iulius Sabinus are
devoted and pious citizens; their actions spring from the purest
thoughts and best intentions.

Quaestor- Aulus Apollonius Cordus, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar and Marcus
Iulius Perusianus – their roman virtues cannot be questioned.

Custos – Emilia Curia Finnica.

Diribitor – Franciscus Apulus Caesar.

Editor- Comentariorum – Marcus Cassius Philippus.

Magister Aranearius – Decimus Claudius Aquilis.

Rogator – Aula Tula Scholastica.

And not the least, even if I cannot vote in this comitia, I would
like to present my support for Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus,
who is not just a fellow citizen but also a mentor and a friend.


Let's pray to the Gods of Rome so that they will enlighten with
righteous decisions those who shall be elected.


Vale optime,

Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege.

Salve.
I'm Appius Claudius Caesar and live in Nea polis (Napoli - Italia).
Respondeo to

>>Message: 17

Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:43:34 -0000
From: "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Ian. >>>
(In Nea Polis there is a famous cabala of numbers: 17 means nefas)

>OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!
omissis

>>Today is a feast of the Liquefaction of the Blood of S. Ianuarius (San

Gennaro) in Naples, Italy. <<

This Liquefaction happens the 19 September and in Maius. The tumulus of the
saint is in Pozzuoli

>>

S. Ianuarius is believed to have been
martyred during the great persecutions of the emperor Diocletian, but
almost nothing is known about him for certain. A sealed glass vial
containing a dark unknown substance, allegedly the clotted blood of
San Gennaro (St Januarius), is shown to thousands of Neopolitans in
the Duomo di San Gennaro. Whilst the container is being handled during
a solemn ceremony, the solid mass suddenly liquefies before
everybody's eyes.

The Neapolitans traditionally have had it rough. In the 20th century
alone, the city suffered volcanoes, earthquakes and cholera epidemics,
so it's no wonder that the people still turn to San Gennaro for advice
about the future. Twice a year city residents flock to the Duomo to
inspect a vial of the saint's blood. The Archbishop brings out the
miraculous relic from its shrine and lifts it high before the hushed
and expectant crowd. The cry "San Gennaro, fa dunque presto!" ("Do it
quickly!") is often heard as the anxious seconds turn into minutes. If
the blood liquefies --- a dramatic phenomenon that baffles even modern
science --- all is well and the Neapolitans erupt in jubilation. If it
remains congealed, then they fear the omen of disaster.

The phial is kept in a safe in Naples Cathedral and taken to the high
altar amid prayers and invocations. The announcement of the
liquefaction is greeted with a 21-gun salute at the 13th-century
Castel Nuovo. The first recorded reference to the "miracle of the
blood" was in A.D. 1389. Disasters which are reputed to have struck
when the blood failed to liquefy include the plague of 1527, in which
tens of thousands died, and the earthquake in southern Italy in 1980,
that killed 3,000.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Polybius, San Gennaro
(http://www.whatsontheplanet.com/wow/ptnr/rci/page.jsp?fx=event&event_id=807
93)
ans (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/12250)

Valete

Salve Appi Claudi Caesar,

Welcome to this list! Good to hear from you.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Avv. Claudio Guzzo"
<claudio.guzzo@e...> wrote:

>
> Salve.
> I'm Appius Claudius Caesar and live in Nea polis (Napoli - Italia).
> Respondeo to
> >>Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:43:34 -0000
> From: "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@g...>
> Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Ian. >>>
> (In Nea Polis there is a famous cabala of numbers: 17 means nefas)
>
> >OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
> omissis
>
> >>Today is a feast of the Liquefaction of the Blood of S.

Ianuarius (San

> Gennaro) in Naples, Italy. <<
>
> This Liquefaction happens the 19 September and in Maius. The

tumulus of the

> saint is in Pozzuoli
>
> >>
> S. Ianuarius is believed to have been
> martyred during the great persecutions of the emperor Diocletian,

but

> almost nothing is known about him for certain. A sealed glass vial
> containing a dark unknown substance, allegedly the clotted blood of
> San Gennaro (St Januarius), is shown to thousands of Neopolitans in
> the Duomo di San Gennaro. Whilst the container is being handled

during

> a solemn ceremony, the solid mass suddenly liquefies before
> everybody's eyes.
>
> The Neapolitans traditionally have had it rough. In the 20th

century

> alone, the city suffered volcanoes, earthquakes and cholera

epidemics,

> so it's no wonder that the people still turn to San Gennaro for

advice

> about the future. Twice a year city residents flock to the Duomo

to

> inspect a vial of the saint's blood. The Archbishop brings out the
> miraculous relic from its shrine and lifts it high before the

hushed

> and expectant crowd. The cry "San Gennaro, fa dunque presto!" ("Do

it

> quickly!") is often heard as the anxious seconds turn into

minutes. If

> the blood liquefies --- a dramatic phenomenon that baffles even

modern

> science --- all is well and the Neapolitans erupt in jubilation.

If it

> remains congealed, then they fear the omen of disaster.
>
> The phial is kept in a safe in Naples Cathedral and taken to the

high

> altar amid prayers and invocations. The announcement of the
> liquefaction is greeted with a 21-gun salute at the 13th-century
> Castel Nuovo. The first recorded reference to the "miracle of the
> blood" was in A.D. 1389. Disasters which are reputed to have struck
> when the blood failed to liquefy include the plague of 1527, in

which

> tens of thousands died, and the earthquake in southern Italy in

1980,

> that killed 3,000.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> SOURCES
>
> Polybius, San Gennaro
> (http://www.whatsontheplanet.com/wow/ptnr/rci/page.jsp?

fx=event&event_id=807

> 93)
> ans (http://www.religionnewsblog.com/12250)
>
> Valete
>

Cn. Lentulus quaestor candidatus: T. Iulio aedili curuli candidato: suo salutem:

T. Sabinus wrote:

>>> 4. Quaestor - (...) Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus - Dignitas, Gravitas and Pietas. <<<

Gratias maximas, amice, tibi agere debeo!
Thank you very much, this was a great idea: to describe the candisates with the Roman Virtues. It was interesting to read what are your judgements - it bespeaks your magnanimity.

As for you, I thought I also feature you in the same way, with the 3 most important virtues which are there in your heart:

T. Julius Sabinus for Aedilis Curulis:
Industria, Clementia and Veritas

Vale, amice Propraetor!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
www.cnlentulus.iweb.hu
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus









---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus Q. K.: M. Moravio TR. P. K.: sal.:

M. Moravius Horatianus wrote:

>>> Quaestor:

A. Apollonius Cordus and Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <<<

Thank you for supporting me, Marce Piscine: as a propraetor I enjoyed the cooperation with you during the census and remebering your hard work in this officina I wholeheartedly recommend you to the plebeians to elect you as Tribunus Plebis.

Vale!



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
www.cnlentulus.iweb.hu
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus









---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve P. Memmius Albucius

Thank you for your support and for your kind words.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[SNIP}....


PRAETOR

I have a best choice, here : Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

I have appreciated a « square » man who really practices roman
values. He seems doing what he says and saying what he does. He has,
during my tribune year, suffered what I consider as a deny of his
rights. It is time for Fortuna to smile again to Hon. Galerius.
Naturally, if two other candidates had so many skills that they would
first deserve the office, such a support would be uneasy. But I
believe that Hon. Galerius has, at least, the same will and
possibilities than Hon. Geminius and Octavius.

Valete omnes,




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salue, M. Moravi Piscine Horatiane, et saluete, omnes!
>
> Salvete Quirites
>
> I shall await until Tuesday, dies comitialis, to cast my votes, as I
> believe, along with pontifices Fabius Modianus and Hadrianus, that
> this is proper for a gentilis Romanus.
>
> Reviewing the candidates I notice several whom I regard as amici and
> as associates with whom I have worked years earlier or more recently
> at Academia Thules and in the cohors of Censor Fabius Buteo. I
> offer my support to those whom I know personally shall best serve
> the Quirites Novae Romanae.
>
>
> Comitia Centuriata:
>
> Censor: Pontifex Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix, an excellent
> candidate for censor whose pietas I respect.
>
> Consul: cara amica mia from long ago Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo
> and my more recent friend and associate Pontifex Gaius Fabius Buteo
> Modianus, who is one of the few Nova Romani I have met in person and
> with whom I have worked in the Officina Census.
>
> Praetor: Caius Curius Saturninus and Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
>
>
> Comitia Populi Tributa:
>
> Aedilis Curulis: mi amicus carus Titus Iulius Sabinus
>
> Quaestor: A. Apollonius Cordus and Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
>
> Rogator: Aula Tullia Scholastica, who has been most helpful to me in
> sodalitas Valetudinus and eslewhere
>
> ATS: Plurimas gratias tibi ago! Thank you very much for your kind words
> and your endorsement.
>
>
> Diribitor: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
>
> Custos: Emilia Curia Finnica
>
>
> Comitia Plebis Tributa:
>
> Tribunus Plebis: an old acquaintance, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, with
> whom I have worked in Academia Thules, an old friend Marcus Arminius
> Maior, and Quintus Suetonius Paulinus, who I first met as one of my
> discipuli in Academia Thules
>
> Aedilis Plebis: Julilla Sempronia Graccha, whose website I visit
> regularly
>
>
> Di Deaeque vos bene ament
> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
>
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salue, Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege, et saluete, quirites!
>
>
> SALVETE OMNES!
>
> There were said many things during the campaign and even more could
> be said. One thing is certain: all the candidates proved their
> concern for this organization and its citizens; they all deserve
> equal respect for this. Also, what we should appreciate is the team
> work and the attempts and efforts made together by some citizens in
> order to accede a superior level for all of us.
>
> I would like to express my appreciation for the following candidates:
>
> Consul – Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo.
>
> Censor- Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix ( I would like to thank him
> for something which he did about 2 years ago; he is the one who told
> me about this wonderful organization. The dreams that I had then are
> now reality. Thank you, amice! )
>
> Praetor – Caius Curius Saturninius
>
> Aedilis – Curulis : Both Equitius Cato and Iulius Sabinus are
> devoted and pious citizens; their actions spring from the purest
> thoughts and best intentions.
>
> Quaestor- Aulus Apollonius Cordus, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar and Marcus
> Iulius Perusianus – their roman virtues cannot be questioned.
>
> Custos – Emilia Curia Finnica.
>
> Diribitor – Franciscus Apulus Caesar.
>
> Editor- Comentariorum – Marcus Cassius Philippus.
>
> Magister Aranearius – Decimus Claudius Aquilis.
>
> Rogator – Aula Tula Scholastica.
>
> ATS: Thank you for your endorsement.
>
> And not the least, even if I cannot vote in this comitia, I would
> like to present my support for Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus,
> who is not just a fellow citizen but also a mentor and a friend.
>
>
> Let's pray to the Gods of Rome so that they will enlighten with
> righteous decisions those who shall be elected.
>
>
> Vale optime,
>
> Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege.
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Iulia,

"Outward beauty is not enough; to be attractive a woman must use words, wit, playfulness, sweet-talk, and laughter to transcend the gifts of Nature"

The words may be Petronius's but you, amica, exude them! Thank you for your endorsement and trust. I hope the weather is nice for you in Romania during your Saturnalia festivities.

Vale bene,
Marcus Cassius Philippus

----- Original Message -----
From: Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Endorsements


SALVETE OMNES!

There were said many things during the campaign and even more could
be said. One thing is certain: all the candidates proved their
concern for this organization and its citizens; they all deserve
equal respect for this. Also, what we should appreciate is the team
work and the attempts and efforts made together by some citizens in
order to accede a superior level for all of us.

I would like to express my appreciation for the following candidates:

Consul - Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Strabo.

Censor- Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix ( I would like to thank him
for something which he did about 2 years ago; he is the one who told
me about this wonderful organization. The dreams that I had then are
now reality. Thank you, amice! )

Praetor - Caius Curius Saturninius

Aedilis - Curulis : Both Equitius Cato and Iulius Sabinus are
devoted and pious citizens; their actions spring from the purest
thoughts and best intentions.

Quaestor- Aulus Apollonius Cordus, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar and Marcus
Iulius Perusianus - their roman virtues cannot be questioned.

Custos - Emilia Curia Finnica.

Diribitor - Franciscus Apulus Caesar.

Editor- Comentariorum - Marcus Cassius Philippus.

Magister Aranearius - Decimus Claudius Aquilis.

Rogator - Aula Tula Scholastica.

And not the least, even if I cannot vote in this comitia, I would
like to present my support for Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus,
who is not just a fellow citizen but also a mentor and a friend.


Let's pray to the Gods of Rome so that they will enlighten with
righteous decisions those who shall be elected.


Vale optime,

Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege.






SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history Fall of the roman empire The fall of the roman empire
Roman empire


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Romani et omnes! Cras Saturnalia est! IO
SATVRNALIA!!! Frater GAIVS IVLIVS IVLIANVS, PGI,
Flamen Floralis

__________________________________________________
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In one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld satires, Death trying to understand
human 'fun' and desire to get drunk, both impossible for him, is told that the
worm shows a strong drink for 'real men'. "You mean it's supposed to be strong
just because it can kill a worm?"

> Salve
>
> According to wikipedia
>
> "It is a common misconception among foreigners that some tequilas
> contain a 'worm' in the bottle. Only certain mezcals, usually from the
> state of Oaxaca, are ever sold con gusano, and that only began as a
> marketing gimmick in the 1940s. The worm is actually the larval form
> of the moth Hipopta agavis that lives on the agave plant. Finding one
> in the plant during processing indicates an infestation and,
> correspondingly, a lower quality product."

"Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy
asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the
master race. How's that for a religion?" - Frank Zappa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

Venator scripsit;

I have returned from my sojourn in the mines; remind me to never again
volunteer for 11 straight work days of 12-14 hours each.

I still have over 100 threads to catch up on, but I wanted to comment
on some of the discussions about what Nova Roma is, as well as who we
are as Romans.

I sought citizenship knowing that one of the primary purposes of the
endeavour was to provide a framework for the restoration of the
Ancient Religion of the Roman People. I could, and can, in good
conscience give my respect to the Religio; to both its Orthopraxy in
my public dealings and to its Orthodoxy in my personal dealings.

I was welcomed by fellow Romans of all Faithways, though I am a
follower of the Elder Northern Holy Ones. I am willing to explain my
beliefs, but I am also willing to accept that within Nova Roma, my
religion is "Privatus," as are all the other "foreign cults."

The vast majority of our Cives co-exist just fine without any
contention over this issue, united by the Bond of Romanitas.

Which is not to say that the discussions I've read thus far have been
vitriolic or unmannerly, on the contrary most words have been seemly.

Which leads me to what I think is a Roman.

Initially, a resident of Rome, a small village in the land we now know as Italy.

Then, a citizen of the town, the Kingdom, Republic, Pricipiate,
Empire, which were.

Presently, a citizen of the new nation known as Nova Roma.

Quite simple, at first glance.

Being Roman is so much more: language, culture, tradition, mindset,
worldview, and so on. Many of the ancient ideals transport just fine
into the 28th century of the city' condition, some do not.

Folks here have called me one of the best of Romans from time to time.
I take this as a compliment, though our ancestors ["Varus, give me
back my legions!"] were in grave strife with each other.

I am Heathen, and Roman. I am such, because I am all of my ancestors.

I think folks have called me a good Roman because I strive to live a
good life and deal with all in an even handed, level headed manner.
I strive to live up to the ideals of my faithway's worldview, which is
not all that dissimilar to the Roman Virtues, Public and Private. I
also strive to address ideas when I reply to another's post.

I've met very few of you face to face, and have no need to put an ad
hominum cloak on anything written here.

Words are all many of us have to introduce ourselves to each other.
The photons before your eyes convey no emotion, no expression, no
gestures, no feelings; not really.

Rome is at its best, a crossroads of the world; a place where new
comers are welcomed and encouraged to add to that which is Rome.

Very devout, ungodly and everyone in between, can be a good Roman.
Scholar, ditch digger and everyone in between, can be a good Roman.
Liberal, conservative and everyone in between, can be a good Roman.

As Roma Antiqua was big enough to contain all of these and more, so
shall we be; if we let ourselves grow as a society.

We're young yet, just barely in mid childhood, give things time.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/

May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

THATS clever, I like that.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <me-in-@...>
wrote:

> In one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld satires,

Death trying to understand

> human 'fun' and desire to get drunk, both impossible

for him, is told that the

> worm shows a strong drink for 'real men'. "You mean

it's supposed to be strong

> just because it can kill a worm?"
>
>
>
> > Salve
> >
> > According to wikipedia
> >
> > "It is a common misconception among foreigners

that some tequilas

> > contain a 'worm' in the bottle. Only certain

mezcals, usually from the

> > state of Oaxaca, are ever sold con gusano, and

that only began as a

> > marketing gimmick in the 1940s. The worm is

actually the larval form

> > of the moth Hipopta agavis that lives on the agave

plant. Finding one

> > in the plant during processing indicates an

infestation and,

> > correspondingly, a lower quality product."
>
>
> "Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the

tin cans and then this guy

> asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay

enough money you get to join the

> master race. How's that for a religion?"

- Frank Zappa

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Servius Iulius Pertinax Omnibus



Dear Friends of my Gens Julia and of Latin Europe and
Latin America...

How lucky we are for sharing the same lingusitic
backdground!!!
Indeed time ( that terrible TIME about which some
people said once that fears only the everlasting
Pyramids ) that long time with its harsh centuries,
with its foggy nights and cold winters, with its dry
summers when food becomes scarce, with wars death and
desperation, THAT TIME has now something else to fear
in addition to the Pyramids.
TIME now fears THE ROMAN LINGUISTIC HERITAGE we
share, which splitted into several nations on both
sides of the Ocean, the Old and the New World,
translates the most secret feelings of the heart into
words and thoughts!!!
TIME tries no longer to make us change our mother
Latin language into anything else... At least we allow
it.
In Romania the Slavic menace coulndÂ’t make those
little children of the Roman Legionnaires change the
sacred linguistic heritage given by their parents.
In Italy the barbarian hordes after arriving,
completely overwhelmed by the Culture they themselves
were destroying, put aside their swords and said: You,
Italians Children of Rome, TEACH US !!!.
In Spain, the Goths strived themselves to be
Romans. When Arabs came the whole people, because
both nations were by then already one, fought and died
together trying to restore “the latinitas” of the
entire country in an epic war that lasted SEVEN
CENTURIES !!!
In Costa Rica, a little part of Central America,
land of vast everlasting jungles, hot and sandy
beaches, magnificent high mountains that hide
jealously silent valleys, here, more than FOUR
HUNDRED years ago, peasants (men, women and children )
dressed up in worn-out clothes, speaking a rather rude
Latin ( two thousand years is a lot and modifies
almost everything!) started to build thatched huts and
to cultivate the fertile lands of the Hills... Just
as their forefathers had done 2317 years before on the
banks of the “Tiberis River”... When these peasants
were enough to fund a city they called it: CARTHAGO!!!
Because they thought “on these lands we have suffered
and shed our blood and sweat... but finally we have
met with success like our Old Ancestors in Carthago”
And this city was the capital of the New Nation of
Peasats eversince... It sounds incredible, almost like
a fairy tale but it is true. The Roman Spirit is
trully invincible.
How lucky we are when we understand each other,
when speaking slowly!!! Indeed OUR LANGUAGE IS ONE AND
THE SAME though somewhat transformed, by centuries of
isolation and distance!!!
If you are either from Portugal, Spain, France,
Italy,Romania, or from any other latin country or
region, I'd like to read your comments. Let's have a
nice time writing!



VALETE

Servius Iulius Pertinax





______________________________________________
Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!
Nuevos servicios, más seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es

---Pompeia Minucia Tiberia F. Galerio Aureliano S.P.D.

I thank you very much, Honoured Flamen Cerealis, for your support.
I am honoured and I pledge to do my best.

Vale



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus flamen Cerealis S.P.D.
>
> I endorse the following candidates for office and strongly urge my

fellow citizens to vot for them. These are the individuals I feel
can best serve Nova Roma to grow and prosper in the coming year. I
do not comment on all the candidates but only those I feel most
strongly about in this election.

>
> Censor
> G. Minucius Hadrianus Felix
>
> Consul
> G. Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo
>
> Praetor
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Caius Curius Saturinus
>
> Rogator
> Aula Tullia Scholastica
> M. Iulius Severus
>
> May the Ceres Mater grant peace, prosperity, and joy to the

Plebeian Order in the coming year and may all the gods grant Nova
Roma magistrates who are embued with the virtues necessary for good
government.

>
> Valete.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---Salvete Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus Amicus et Omnes:

I thank you so much for your words of support and confidence below.
And I too, will be sticking an x beside my fellow candidate's name
when I vote, as well as my own.

Valete!




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I hereby once again endorse Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and

Pompeia

> Minucia Tiberia Strabo as Consuls as I am convinced that these two
> citizens will make an excellent pair of Consuls for Nova Roma! I

will

> be happy to vote for both of them as the law allows this.
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Censor, Consularis et Senator
> Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
> Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Cohors Censoris CFBQ
> http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>

---Salve Tite Iuli Sabine Amice:

I thank you so much for your kind, and very generous words. Virtues
are indeed important...so much so that they are in a magistrate's
oath of office. Thanks for reminding us all of this!. I've enjoyed
working with you on Magna Mater Project endeavors this year. I am
sure the project will be in good hands next year with you as Curule
Aedile. You will have my stones at the cista, amice!

Gratias et Vale!
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@y...>
wrote:

>
> SALVETE QUIRITES !
>
> Sure all the candidates are the best citizens of Nova Roma.

Congratulations to all for their dedication to serve the Republic.

> I have only one criterion for the candidates support. The honour

to work together in this year.

> Without more words, because they are wellknown citizens, but

with three specific Roman Virtues in profile ( and this is my
personal point of view ), my support are going to :

>
> 1. Censor - Quintus Fabius Maximus - Severitas, Dignitas and

Humanitas.

>
> 2. Consul - Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo - Firmitas,

Industria and Pietas.

>
> 3. Praetor - Tiberius Galerius Paulinus - Humanitas, Honestas

and Industria.

> Caius Curius Saturninus - Auctoritas, Firmitas

and Industria.

>
> 4. Quaestor - Gnaeus Iulius Caesar - Auctoritas, Dignitas and

Firmitas.

> Marcus Iulius Perusianus - Honestas,

Industria and Veritas.

> Aulus Apollonius Cordus - Humanitas,

Prudentia and Pietas.

> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus - Dignitas,

Gravitas and Pietas.

> Quintus Fabius Allectus - Honestas, Veritas

and Comitas.

>
> 5. Editor Commentariorium - Marcus Cassius Philippus -

Honestas,Veritas and Frugalitas.

>
> 6. Rogator - Aula Tullia Scholastica - Auctoritas, Firmitas and

Industria.

> Marcus Iulius Severus - Severitas, Veritas and

Firmitas.

>
> 7. Diribitor - Lucius Rutilius Minervalis - Gravitas, Frugalitas

and Prudentia.

> Franciscus Apulus Caesar - Dignitas, Firmitas

and Industria.

>
> 8. Custos - Emilia Curia Finnica - Auctoritas,Firmitas and

Industria.

>
> I want to add my recomandations for :
>
> 1. Aedilis Plebis - Julilla Sempronia Magna - Dignitas,

Humanitas and Industria.

>
> 2. Tribunus Plebis - Gnaeus Salvius Astur - Dignitas, Comitas

and Pietas.

> Quintus Suetonius Paulinus -

Honestas, Prudentia and Veritas.

> Marcus Moravius Piscinus

Horatianus - Pietas, Humanitas and Honestas.

>
> And for all candidates : Virtus, Genius and Concordia.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
> PS. For new citizens :
> http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/virtues.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius

Claudius

>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Shopping
> Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> In one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld satires,
> Death trying to understand
> human 'fun' and desire to get drunk, both impossible
> for him, is told that the
> worm shows a strong drink for 'real men'. "You mean
> it's supposed to be strong
> just because it can kill a worm?"

DEATH IS MY FAVORITE DISCWORLD CHARACTER. :-)

My favorite Discworld Quote is "The down side of being
a God is that you have no one to pray to."

Vale,
Diana

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve Diana et omnes!

I love the fact that Pratchett calls priests "god-botherers" :-)

Valete optime et IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Octavia Aventina
<dianaaventina@y...> wrote:

>
> > In one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld satires,
> > Death trying to understand
> > human 'fun' and desire to get drunk, both impossible
> > for him, is told that the
> > worm shows a strong drink for 'real men'. "You mean
> > it's supposed to be strong
> > just because it can kill a worm?"
>
> DEATH IS MY FAVORITE DISCWORLD CHARACTER. :-)
>
> My favorite Discworld Quote is "The down side of being
> a God is that you have no one to pray to."
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

"To add to the general feeling of apprehension, information was
received of portents having occurred simultaneously in several places.
In Sicily several of the soldiers' darts were covered with flames; in
Sardinia the same thing happened to the staff in the hand of an
officer who was going his rounds to inspect the sentinels on the wall;
the shores had been lit up by numerous fires; a couple of shields had
sweated blood; some soldiers had been struck by lightning; an eclipse
of the sun had been observed; at Praeneste there had been a shower of
red-hot stones; at Arpi shields had been seen in the sky and the sun
had appeared to be fighting with the moon; at Capena two moons were
visible in the daytime; at Caere the waters ran mingled with blood,
and even the spring of Hercules had bubbled up with drops of blood on
the water; at Antium the ears of corn which fell into the reapers'
basket were blood-stained; at Falerii the sky seemed to be cleft
asunder as with an enormous rift and all over the opening there was a
blazing light; the oracular tablets shrank and shrivelled without
being touched and one had fallen out with this inscription, "MARS IS
SHAKING HIS SPEAR"; and at the same time the statue of Mars on the
Appian Way and the images of the Wolves sweated blood. Finally, at
Capua the sight was seen of the sky on fire and the moon falling in
the midst of a shower of rain. Then credence was given to
comparatively trifling portents, such as that certain people's goats
were suddenly clothed with wool, a hen turned into a cock, and a cock
into a hen. After giving the details exactly as they were reported to
him and bringing his informants before the senate, the consul
consulted the House as to what religious observances ought to be
proclaimed. A decree was passed that to avert the evils which these
portents foreboded, sacrifices should be offered, the victims to be
both full-grown animals and sucklings, and also that special
intercessions should be made at all the shrines for three days. What
other ceremonial was necessary was to be carried out in accordance
with the instructions of the decemvirs after they had inspected the
Sacred Books and ascertained the will of the gods. On their advice it
was decreed that the first votive offering should be made to Jupiter
in the shape of a golden thunderbolt weighing fifty pounds, gifts of
silver to Juno and Minerva, and sacrifices of full-grown victims to
Queen Juno on the Aventine and Juno Sospita at Lanuvium, whilst the
matrons were to contribute according to their means and bear their
gift to Queen Juno on the Aventine. A lectisternium was to be held,
and even the freedwomen were to contribute what they could for a gift
to the temple of Feronia. When these instructions had been carried out
the decemvirs sacrificed full-grown victims in the forum at Ardea, and
finally in the middle of December there was a sacrifice at the Temple
of Saturn, a lectisternium was ordered (the senators prepared the
couch), and a public banquet. For a day and a night the cry of the
Saturnalia resounded through the City, and the people were ordered to
make that day a festival and observe it as such for ever." - Livy,
History of Rome 22.1


"For how many years shall this festival abide! Never shall age destroy
so holy a day! While the hills of Latium remain and father Tiber,
while thy Rome stands and the Capitol thou hast restored to the world,
it shall continue." - Macrobius, Saturnalia

"Philochorus Saturno et Opi primum in Attica statuisse aram Cecropem
dicit, eosque deos pro Iove terraque coluisse, instituisseque ut
patres familiarum et frugibus et fructibus iam coactis passim cum
servis vescerentur cum quibus patientiam laboris in colendo rure
toleraverant: delectari enim deum honore servorum contemplatu laboris.
Hinc est quod ex instituto peregrino huic deo sacrum aperto capite
facimus. Abunde iam probasse nos aestimo Saturnalia uno tantum die, id
est quarto decimo Kalendas, solita celebrari: sed post in triduum
propagata, primum ex adiectis a Caesare huic mensi diebus, deinde ex
edicto Augusti quo trium dierum ferias Saturnalibus addixit: a sexto
decimo igitur coepta in quartum decimum desinunt, quo solo fieri ante
consueverant. Sed Sigillariorum adiecta celebritas in septem dies
discursum publicum et laetitiam religionis extendit." - Macrobius,
Saturnalia X.22-24

"The festival [of the Saturnalia] is celebrated everywhere as far as
the limits of the Roman Empire extend... The impulse to spend seizes
everyone.... People are not only generous towards themselves, but also
towards their fellow-men. A stream of presents pours itself out on all
sides.... The festival banishes all that is connected with toil, and
allows men to give themselves up to undisturbed enjoyment. From the
minds of young people it removes two kinds of dread: the dread of the
schoolmaster and the dread of the stern pedagogue.... Another great
quality of the festival is that it teaches men not to hold too fast to
their money, but to part with it and let it pass into other hands." -
Libanius


Today begins the great SATURNALIA, the festival dedicated to the god
Saturn, to whom the inhabitants of Latium attributed the introduction
of agriculture and the arts of civilized life. Falling towards the end
of December, at the season when the agricultural labours of the year
were fully completed, it was celebrated in ancient times by the rustic
population as a sort of joyous harvest-home, and in every age was
viewed by all classes of the community as a period of absolute
relaxation and unrestrained merriment. During its continuance no
public business could be transacted, the law courts were closed, the
schools kept holiday, to commence a war was impious, and to punish a
malefactor involved pollution. The poet Catullus describes Saturnalia
as the "best of days"(14.15). It was a time of celebration, visits to
friends, and gift-giving, particularly of wax candles (cerei), and
earthenware figurines (sigillaria). The best part of the Saturnalia
(for slaves) was the temporary reversal of roles. Masters served meals
to their slaves who were permitted the unaccustomed luxuries of
leisure and gambling. Clothing was relaxed, the toga was left behind,
and the people wore a loose-fitting robe called the synthesis and
dress often included the peaked woollen cap that symbolized the freed
slave. A member of the familia (family plus slaves) was appointed
"Saturnalicius princeps", roughly, "Lord of Misrule".

Saturn being an ancient national god of Latium, the institution of the
Saturnalia is lost in the most remote antiquity. In one legend Saturn,
dethroned by his son Iuppiter, had joined Ianus as ruler in Italy, but
when his time as earthly king was up, he disappeared. So it was
ascribed to Ianus, who, after the sudden disappearance of his guest
and benefactor from the abodes of men, reared an altar to him as a
deity in the forum, and ordained annual sacrifices; Saturn's kingship
was a golden age of happiness for all men, without theft or servitude,
and without private property. According to Macrobius' Saturnalia, the
holiday was originally probably only one day, although he notes an
Atellan playwright, Novius, described it as being seven days. With
Caesar's changing the calendar, the festival lengthened, becoming the
seven-day feast we now enjoy.

Candles, feasting, singing, decking the halls (and each other) with
boughs of greenery, games, and general whooping it up are called for,
as the sunlight gradually shrinks to the shortest day of the year ---
and then begins again to stretch its light, promising the return of
warmth and light --- and the reign of King Saturn.

Valete bene et IO SATURNALIA!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Saturnalia (http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/saturnalia/) and
(http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Religions/saturnalia.htm) and Smith's
Dictionary

M. LVCRETIVS AGRICOLA OMNIBUS... "IO SATVRNALIA!!"

Salvete omnes,

Now being time of elections, I think I should also sent my supporting
message to the candidates. These are my own subjective choices
obviously, and if you agree with them or not, the important thing is
that you vote, that's the duty of us all.

For Censor there is Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix, man of moral
strenght and quality.

For Consul both Pompeia Minucia-Tiberia Strabo and Gaius Fabius Buteo
Modianus are qualified and recommendable choices. Without hesitation
you can give them your support.

For Praetor, I would obviously vote myself, but more than I deserving
to be elected is a man of many talents and strong character, Titus
Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus. Despite his reddish beard he has proven to
be a man whom one can trust and who has moral strenght to make
independent decisions and evaluations. Some people have commented his
short cursus, but I think that those people don't see the forest from
the trees, because Titus Octavius has served in numerous cohortes and
always done his work well, so he is far from being inexperienced or
lacking knowledge how NR, or that matter real world, works. Even if
you wouldn't vote anyone else in these elections, vote Titus Octavius!

For Curule Aedile there is Titus Iulius Sabinus, always hard-working
man and father from the Dacia province. If there is someone who can
arrange you games you deserve, it's him.

For Plebeian Aedile it was my outmost delight to see Julilla
Sempronia Magna as candidate, she is the living example of Roman
virtues, and her wisdom is something that would qualify her for even
higher positions, vote her now and vote her in the future.

For Tribune there are two man whom I have learned to respect by
working with them for several years. Gnaeus Salvius Astur has proven
already his capabilities as Tribune and there is no reason to think
that he would any worse this time around. Marcus Moravius Piscinus
Horatianus is a living source-book for Roman religion and also a man
that has needed experience in life to make a good Tribune. Further
there are two candidates whom are good choices, Quintus Suetonius
Paulinus and Marcus Arminius Maior, even while they are not as famous
as first two I mentioned, they still are men of honour and rightfulness.

For Quaestor there are two obvious candidates whom I think wouldn't
even perhaps need any description, but for the sake of being equal:
Marcus Iulius Perusianus is a man of finest character, honest and
hard-working and ever polite. And Aulus Apollonius Cordus, who is
known for those who have stomach to read his long messages as a man
of finest legal knowledge, is also enbodiment of firmness and never-
tiring worker for our republic.

For Rogator there is Aula Tullia Scholastica who has already shown
her capability to do the kind of work Rogatores now to be elected are
to be doing, so there is absolutely no reason for not to let her get
magistrateship to do the same work.

For Diribitor there are two men who have all the qualities this
position needs and much more: Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Stephanus
Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.

And lastly for Custos I would obviously vote my wife and mother of my
son, Emilia Curia Finnica.

Valete,

Caius Curius Saturninus

C�CURIUM�PRAET�O�V�F
http://www.insulaumbra.com/saturninus

Tribunus Plebis
Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pompeia Minucia Tiberia Omnibus S.P.D.

IO Saturnalia Novae Romae!


I wish you the best of the festival of Saturnalia and a 2759 of
health, fortune and happiness.

Valete

Salvete Omnes:

While spending some time surfing I stumbled across some instructions
on how to make a Phrygian style Pileus. It was hyperlinked from none
other than one of the About.com pages Equitius Cato mentioned earlier
today. The instructions are courtesy of Merlinia Ambrosia, citizen of
NR (who is also a fantastic cook by the way), and they are part of
Julilla Sempronia Magna's website.



www.villaivlilla.com/pileus.htm

You will see the finished cap done up as a very festive fashion
statement :) A perfect gift for the man who has absolutely
everything!


As a matter of trivia, I think this style of cap was also
a 'required' fashion statement for freedmen in the Roman republic
during most times, if I'm not mistaken. It started off as a seaman's
hat, apparently.


Happy crafting!

Po

A. Apollonius C. Minucio omnibusque sal.

Thanks for your clarification and patience - I hope
it's clear that my probing wasn't meant as criticism,
but merely intended to explore the nature fo your
comments.

Good luck at the cista, and a happy Saturnalia.



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

Diana Octavia Aventina wrote:

> DEATH IS MY FAVORITE DISCWORLD CHARACTER. :-)

Salvete,

Mine kind of is "Wen the Eternally Surprised". And here's the
corresponding quote:

" In the Second Scroll of Wen the Eternally Surprised a story is written
concerning one day when the apprentice Clodpool, in a rebellious mood,
approached Wen and spake thusly:
- Master, what is the difference between a humanistic, monastic system
of belief in which wisdom is sought by means of an apparently
nonsensical system of questions and answers, and a lot of mystic
gibberish made up on the spur of the moment?
Wen considered this for some time, and at last said:
- A fish!
And Clodpool went away, satisfied."

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

>
> DEATH IS MY FAVORITE DISCWORLD CHARACTER. :-)
>

He is splendid isn't he? I do wish somebody would film some of the stories.
Mort was radio dramatised but I found Death's voice very disaapoiting. He
sounded like an old benign but slightly out of touch and curious to know why
schoolmaster. I imagine him sounding more like the kind of whisper that
somehow comes across louder than anything else and you're never quite sure
where it's coming from.
Caesariensis



"Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy
asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the
master race. How's that for a religion?" - Frank Zappa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
Omnes wonderful Senatrix Julilla Sempronia Magna is running
for plebeian aedile which is a great thing as she is so knowledgable
and wise, please write me in M. Hortensia Maior as plebian aedile to
serve with her & learn and help with the games!

Please also vote for excellent C. Curius Saturninus and Titus Octavius
Ahenobarbus as Praetors - they are so sensible . This is a very
serious quality in a praetor.

Finally please vote for Gnaeus Salix Astur, former Consul, so
wise, and Marcus Hortensius Piscinus and Marcus Arminius Maior for
Tribunis Plebis: they are long-term cives & so sensible!!
This as we know is a very important quality for Tribunes. We want
to give our future Consuls Strabo and Buteo Modianus good men to work
with.
Naturally for Censor there is only one man of character,
C.Minucius Hadrianus
For Diribitor; the erudite Aula Tullia Scholastica
For Custos: Emilia Finnica
for Questors: A. Apollonius Cordus, Arminius Recanellus of
Brasilia and Apulus Caesar, Consular
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP