M. Hortensia P. Strabonis, Cordo, Catonis, Octavioque spd;
I vetoed Albucius's edict & declared the election a 'fait
accompli' (what is the Latin;-) around 2 a.m.. thanks to Senatrix
Strabo's quick thinking.

We don't need any fancy theories, English Common Law which
is a descendant of Roman Law has the concept of a 'fictional notice'
[cant think of the real legal term] meaning if no one objects than
it is deemed that you permitted tha action to occur.

Since the tribs forgot to make the announcement in the CPT but the
elections went forward without the legal notice without objection,
we make the assumption that the plebs had their notice....That's it.

Albucius's problems stem from his analysis the leges from an EU
point of view, not Roman law or Roman history.

I propose we bestow upon Albucius the cognomen "Intercessor" for all
his fun uses of his veto power without a positive solution: the
Ludi, the elections....;-)
positively the last time,
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP (Nov. 2005)

Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus &
I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end of
year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!

>
> M. Hortensia Senatrice P. Strabonis spd;
> thank you thank you Senatrix Pompeia Strabo for an
> excellent suggestion; I am very grateful!....I veto Albucius's
> election call, as an election of the Plebians has occurred...I

voted

> in the cista and can affirm that the CPT was listed and candidates
> within as well as the brilliant 'write in' choice...that saves

wear

> and tear on the webmaster, the diribatores & the Quirites so we
> won't need that by-election that my error caused.
> Again my apologies for forgetting to call the CPT,
> bene vale
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP -2005...
>
>
>
>
>
> agree with every sensible, wonderful suggestion below.
> > Pompeia: Not necessarily. You could consider the suggestion
> above.
> > Alternately: there are five of you and a majority of you *could
> > *pronounce intersessio against your most recent election call,

and

> > further: affirm that an election of the Plebian people has
> occurred,
> > although the wrong verbage was employed to convene same, and

thus

> to
> > nix the Plebs' wishes (and likely their interest) by convening a
> new
> > election out of a bad choice of words is against the spirit of

the

> > constitution; further, it potentially compromises the Plebian

(and

> > often Patrician) entitlement to a dissenting voice in government
> > next year, should one be required. I do not wish to see another
> year
> > of contesting Tribune potestas...over technical

snags/ambiguities.

> > It stunts our growth as a republic, this sort of thing, I feel.
> >
> > Quirites.....am I understanding this situation correctly? When

I

> > logged into the cista to vote...there were three comitia
> open...one
> > I could not get in to the Comitia Plebius Tributa of course as a
> > Patrician...but three were listed....could someone tell me that
> > three were *not* listed at the onset of these elections?
> > >
> > > So please find all, in the absence of any answer from my est.
> > > Colleagues, an official convening edict.
> > >
> > > You will thus see that the (official) contio period is tiny

and

> > > falling in Christmas time. So please all (Christians... ;-) )
> > > forgive "us" this. I hope that the fact that we all know well
> now
> >
> > Pompeia: It is not the Christians, Jesus, Santa, Kahless the
> > Unforgettable, whomever,.. you are potentially offending...it is
> the
> > Plebian order within Nova Roma, with respect. Those who elected
> you
> > to represent their rights and needs. Saturnalia ends I believe
> > tomorrow (if you go by Caligula's numbers :)), so I am not sure
> what
> > Christmas has to do with all of this. I know not all vote
> counters
> > are Christians, as a matter of trivia, Honoured Tribune. We

must

> > take care not to compromise Plebian rights to representation

come

> > Ian. I 2759. That is my concern.
> >
> > the
> > > names of our 1 + 5 candidates, and also that there are not

more

> > > runners than open positions, will make debates shorter and
> easier.
> > >
> > > The voting period must legally last 5 days. So votes will be
> able
> > to
> > > be cast till 30/12 midnight Rome time. Here too, please all
> > > diribitores, the magister aranearius and other magistrates and
> > > assistants involved in the process of counting and stating the
> > votes
> > > forgive this extreme schedule.
> > >
> > > I propose, if every constitutional power agrees this proposal,
> > that
> > > the first days of January 2006 could help these last

processings

> > > ending, if necessary. Meanwhile, during the first days of next
> > 2759
> > > auc, our 1+5 candidates will be able to take contact,
> > unofficially,
> > > with their future tasks.
> > >
> > > A by-election will have to be called by the new-elected

Tribunes

> > to
> > > get a 2nd Aedilis Plebis.
> >
> > Pompeia: I think something else can be worked out. But if you
> > insist, and you do not receive intercessio from your collegiae,
> then
> > you may proceed with a new election, and even if your vote
> counters
> > are not doing 'the Christmas thing', they may still be busy....
> in
> > which case, you would have to issue an edictum stating that

since

> no
> > diribitores are available to help you tally the votes, then
> Plebian
> > X and Plebian Y shall be appointed to count votes.....or call

the

> > Senate into session for assistance if you get stuck....as

Tribune

> > you may do that. In either case, this linguistic/technical

hole,

> > with respect to the current cista proceedings, has to be

plugged.

> > That is why edictum were invented I do believe.
> >
> > We have to take steps, one way or the other, to ensure that the
> > legality of this election is affirmed....or...a new one will
> indeed
> > have to be held....that is up to this year's Tribunes....they

have

> > the potestas....
> >
> > Worst case scenerio:
> >
> >
> > I recommend intercessio against this 'new' election if it is

still

> a
> > factor within the next day or so.. (if I understand things
> > correctly) . And even better separately (essentially in my

view),

> > an edictum issued by the majority of Tribunes affirming the
> validity
> > of these recent elections....to safeguard the validity of the
> > potestas of the incoming Tribunes (Tribunes may issue edicta).
> > Likewise in this edictum, I would affirm the validity of the
> > election of the Plebian Aedile.
> >
> > Sorry to 'butt in' as a Patrician, but I believe that Tribunes

are

> > an integral part of the balance of decision making...an integral
> > component of the push/pull checks and balances of our Roman-

based

> > government/judicial system, and their election has to be
> recognized
> > as bona fide and affirmed beyond question....as with any other
> > magisterial election. They play a large role.
> >
> > Valete bene.........Po
> > >
> > > Valete omnes,
> > >
> > > PMA
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > TRIBUNE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
> > > ON THE CONVENING OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
> > > (Latin text available on demand)
> > >
> > > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, Tribune of the Plebs, by the
> authority
> > > vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma,
> > >
> > > In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specially its

article

> > > III.C., IV.7. and IV.A.5,
> > > In view of my Edict (Dec. 9 12 :57 CPT list) on the annual
> calling
> > > for candidates for the plebeian offices of Tribunes of the

Plebs

> > and
> > > Aediles of the Plebs (« ELECTIONS - PLEBS - 2nd period closed -

> > > OFFICIAL CANDIDACIES »),
> > >
> > > Edicts :
> > >
> > > Article 1
> > >
> > > The Comitia plebis tributa are convened.
> > >
> > > Article 2
> > >
> > > The schedule of this comitial session is the following one :
> > >
> > > - debates (contio) :
> > >
> > > . beginning on December 24, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time ;
> > > . ending on December 25, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > >
> > > - vote :
> > >
> > > . beginning on December 26, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time;
> > > . ending on December 30, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Article 3
> > >
> > > The agenda of this comitial session is the following one :
> > >
> > > 1. Election of the five Tribunes of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > a.u.c.).
> > > The 5 citizens whose candidacy has been legally registered

are :

> > >
> > > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa (CTP list declaration on Nov. 26,

12 :14

> > am,
> > > mess. 890, registered on Nov. 26, 11 :02 am, mess. CTP list
> 891) ;
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28,
> 7 :39
> > > am, mess. 892, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :49 pm, mess. CTP list
> > 894) ;
> > >
> > > Cnaeus Salix Astur (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28, 12 :38

pm,

> > mess.
> > > 893, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :55 pm, mess. CTP list 895) ;
> > >
> > > Marcus Arminius Maior (CTP list declaration on Dec. 2, 9 :10

pm,

> > > mess. 897, registered on Dec. 2, 11 :31 pm, mess. CTP list

899) ;

> > >
> > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus (CTP list declaration on
> Dec.
> > 3,
> > > 9 :56 pm, mess. 901, registered on Dec. 4, 6 :23 pm, mess. CTP
> list
> > > 904) ;
> > >
> > > Marcus Bianchius Antonius, currently in charge (CTP list
> > declaration
> > > on Dec. 6, 9 :55 pm, mess. 910, registered on Dec. 7, 7 :54

pm,

> > mess.
> > > CTP list 911).
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Election of the two Aediles of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > a.u.c.).
> > > The only citizen whose candidacy has been legally registered

is :

> > >
> > > Julilla Sempronia Magna (CTP list
> > > declaration on Dec. 5, 7 :13 pm, mess. 906, registered on Dec.

5,

> > > 11 :14 pm, mess. CTP list 907).
> > >
> > >
> > > Article 4
> > >
> > > The appropriate magistrates of Nova Roma are responsible,
> > > as far as each one is concerned by the present edict,
> > > for executing it. This edict which will be published in the
> > > Tabularium of Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > Issued in Caen, city of the Viducasses, France, this twenty
> second
> > > day of December, 2005 C.E. (22 December 2759), during the
> > consulate of
> > > Fr. Apulus Caesar and Ga. Popillius Laenas
> > >
> > > scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia,
> > > a.d. XI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLVIIII a.u.c.
> > >
> > > Publius Memmius Albucius
> > > Tribunus Plebis
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Equitius Cato:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
<mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:

>
> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> Senatrix, your desire to see this nonsense end is admirable;

however,

> it would be far simpler if one of the tribunes would just accept

the

> Magister Aranearius' work as an extension of tribunician potestas

for

> this particular instance --- and ANNOUNCE that fact.

Po: Yeah, that would be ideal, but alas, not our call. You can tell
that I am hoping for a solution to settle this? I admit it :). I
went shopping in the Tabularium, but the above was the best
legislative deal I could come up with, aside from the suggestion to
issue an edictum, using Cordus' proposed methodology to cover the
potestas of the webmaster thing.

Seriously....

If nothing else, the Lex Grylla demonstrates that one way or the
other, arrangements have to be made for some Tribs. We can't just
say 'Well, folks, no Tribs for you this year'. As I've said before,
they are an integral part of our check/balance Romanesque decision-
making process.

>
> This whole election season has been a mess: poorly planned, poorly
> executed, and in violation of Nova Roman law in several instances.
> Can we not just get this done with?

Po: This is the first time I've ever seen as many rough roads...,
I'll give you that....maybe others have, but I haven't since 2000,
unless they were very well kept behind the scenes.

>
> Valete,
>
> Cato

Bene vale,
Po

>

---Salve Hortensia Maior Tribuna et Salvete Omnes:

First off, I apologize...I was likely typing around the same time
you were as I didn't see this post before I posted my last respondeo
to Equitius Cato.

So if I sounded as though you were not working on things, one or
more of you, I apologize.

I'm glad you took my suggestions in good faith. I did not mean to
offend anyone, just acknowledge and try to ameliorate the situation.

Valete bene,
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:

>
> M. Hortensia P. Strabonis, Cordo, Catonis, Octavioque spd;
> I vetoed Albucius's edict & declared the election a 'fait
> accompli' (what is the Latin;-) around 2 a.m.. thanks to Senatrix
> Strabo's quick thinking.
>
> We don't need any fancy theories, English Common Law which
> is a descendant of Roman Law has the concept of a 'fictional

notice'

> [cant think of the real legal term] meaning if no one objects than
> it is deemed that you permitted tha action to occur.
>
> Since the tribs forgot to make the announcement in the CPT but the
> elections went forward without the legal notice without objection,
> we make the assumption that the plebs had their notice....That's

it.

>
> Albucius's problems stem from his analysis the leges from an EU
> point of view, not Roman law or Roman history.
>
> I propose we bestow upon Albucius the cognomen "Intercessor" for

all

> his fun uses of his veto power without a positive solution: the
> Ludi, the elections....;-)
> positively the last time,
> Marca Hortensia Maior TRP (Nov. 2005)
>
> Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
> that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus

&

> I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end

of

> year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!
> >
> > M. Hortensia Senatrice P. Strabonis spd;
> > thank you thank you Senatrix Pompeia Strabo for an
> > excellent suggestion; I am very grateful!....I veto Albucius's
> > election call, as an election of the Plebians has occurred...I
> voted
> > in the cista and can affirm that the CPT was listed and

candidates

> > within as well as the brilliant 'write in' choice...that saves
> wear
> > and tear on the webmaster, the diribatores & the Quirites so we
> > won't need that by-election that my error caused.
> > Again my apologies for forgetting to call the CPT,
> > bene vale
> > M. Hortensia Maior TRP -2005...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > agree with every sensible, wonderful suggestion below.
> > > Pompeia: Not necessarily. You could consider the suggestion
> > above.
> > > Alternately: there are five of you and a majority of you

*could

> > > *pronounce intersessio against your most recent election call,
> and
> > > further: affirm that an election of the Plebian people has
> > occurred,
> > > although the wrong verbage was employed to convene same, and
> thus
> > to
> > > nix the Plebs' wishes (and likely their interest) by convening

a

> > new
> > > election out of a bad choice of words is against the spirit of
> the
> > > constitution; further, it potentially compromises the Plebian
> (and
> > > often Patrician) entitlement to a dissenting voice in

government

> > > next year, should one be required. I do not wish to see

another

> > year
> > > of contesting Tribune potestas...over technical
> snags/ambiguities.
> > > It stunts our growth as a republic, this sort of thing, I feel.
> > >
> > > Quirites.....am I understanding this situation correctly?

When

> I
> > > logged into the cista to vote...there were three comitia
> > open...one
> > > I could not get in to the Comitia Plebius Tributa of course as

a

> > > Patrician...but three were listed....could someone tell me

that

> > > three were *not* listed at the onset of these elections?
> > > >
> > > > So please find all, in the absence of any answer from my

est.

> > > > Colleagues, an official convening edict.
> > > >
> > > > You will thus see that the (official) contio period is tiny
> and
> > > > falling in Christmas time. So please all (Christians... ;-

) )

> > > > forgive "us" this. I hope that the fact that we all know

well

> > now
> > >
> > > Pompeia: It is not the Christians, Jesus, Santa, Kahless the
> > > Unforgettable, whomever,.. you are potentially offending...it

is

> > the
> > > Plebian order within Nova Roma, with respect. Those who

elected

> > you
> > > to represent their rights and needs. Saturnalia ends I

believe

> > > tomorrow (if you go by Caligula's numbers :)), so I am not

sure

> > what
> > > Christmas has to do with all of this. I know not all vote
> > counters
> > > are Christians, as a matter of trivia, Honoured Tribune. We
> must
> > > take care not to compromise Plebian rights to representation
> come
> > > Ian. I 2759. That is my concern.
> > >
> > > the
> > > > names of our 1 + 5 candidates, and also that there are not
> more
> > > > runners than open positions, will make debates shorter and
> > easier.
> > > >
> > > > The voting period must legally last 5 days. So votes will be
> > able
> > > to
> > > > be cast till 30/12 midnight Rome time. Here too, please all
> > > > diribitores, the magister aranearius and other magistrates

and

> > > > assistants involved in the process of counting and stating

the

> > > votes
> > > > forgive this extreme schedule.
> > > >
> > > > I propose, if every constitutional power agrees this

proposal,

> > > that
> > > > the first days of January 2006 could help these last
> processings
> > > > ending, if necessary. Meanwhile, during the first days of

next

> > > 2759
> > > > auc, our 1+5 candidates will be able to take contact,
> > > unofficially,
> > > > with their future tasks.
> > > >
> > > > A by-election will have to be called by the new-elected
> Tribunes
> > > to
> > > > get a 2nd Aedilis Plebis.
> > >
> > > Pompeia: I think something else can be worked out. But if

you

> > > insist, and you do not receive intercessio from your

collegiae,

> > then
> > > you may proceed with a new election, and even if your vote
> > counters
> > > are not doing 'the Christmas thing', they may still be

busy....

> > in
> > > which case, you would have to issue an edictum stating that
> since
> > no
> > > diribitores are available to help you tally the votes, then
> > Plebian
> > > X and Plebian Y shall be appointed to count votes.....or call
> the
> > > Senate into session for assistance if you get stuck....as
> Tribune
> > > you may do that. In either case, this linguistic/technical
> hole,
> > > with respect to the current cista proceedings, has to be
> plugged.
> > > That is why edictum were invented I do believe.
> > >
> > > We have to take steps, one way or the other, to ensure that

the

> > > legality of this election is affirmed....or...a new one will
> > indeed
> > > have to be held....that is up to this year's Tribunes....they
> have
> > > the potestas....
> > >
> > > Worst case scenerio:
> > >
> > >
> > > I recommend intercessio against this 'new' election if it is
> still
> > a
> > > factor within the next day or so.. (if I understand things
> > > correctly) . And even better separately (essentially in my
> view),
> > > an edictum issued by the majority of Tribunes affirming the
> > validity
> > > of these recent elections....to safeguard the validity of the
> > > potestas of the incoming Tribunes (Tribunes may issue

edicta).

> > > Likewise in this edictum, I would affirm the validity of the
> > > election of the Plebian Aedile.
> > >
> > > Sorry to 'butt in' as a Patrician, but I believe that Tribunes
> are
> > > an integral part of the balance of decision making...an

integral

> > > component of the push/pull checks and balances of our Roman-
> based
> > > government/judicial system, and their election has to be
> > recognized
> > > as bona fide and affirmed beyond question....as with any other
> > > magisterial election. They play a large role.
> > >
> > > Valete bene.........Po
> > > >
> > > > Valete omnes,
> > > >
> > > > PMA
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > TRIBUNE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
> > > > ON THE CONVENING OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
> > > > (Latin text available on demand)
> > > >
> > > > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, Tribune of the Plebs, by the
> > authority
> > > > vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma,
> > > >
> > > > In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specially its
> article
> > > > III.C., IV.7. and IV.A.5,
> > > > In view of my Edict (Dec. 9 12 :57 CPT list) on the annual
> > calling
> > > > for candidates for the plebeian offices of Tribunes of the
> Plebs
> > > and
> > > > Aediles of the Plebs (« ELECTIONS - PLEBS - 2nd period

closed -

>
> > > > OFFICIAL CANDIDACIES »),
> > > >
> > > > Edicts :
> > > >
> > > > Article 1
> > > >
> > > > The Comitia plebis tributa are convened.
> > > >
> > > > Article 2
> > > >
> > > > The schedule of this comitial session is the following one :
> > > >
> > > > - debates (contio) :
> > > >
> > > > . beginning on December 24, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time ;
> > > > . ending on December 25, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > > >
> > > > - vote :
> > > >
> > > > . beginning on December 26, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time;
> > > > . ending on December 30, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Article 3
> > > >
> > > > The agenda of this comitial session is the following one :
> > > >
> > > > 1. Election of the five Tribunes of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > > a.u.c.).
> > > > The 5 citizens whose candidacy has been legally registered
> are :
> > > >
> > > > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa (CTP list declaration on Nov. 26,
> 12 :14
> > > am,
> > > > mess. 890, registered on Nov. 26, 11 :02 am, mess. CTP list
> > 891) ;
> > > >
> > > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28,
> > 7 :39
> > > > am, mess. 892, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :49 pm, mess. CTP

list

> > > 894) ;
> > > >
> > > > Cnaeus Salix Astur (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28, 12 :38
> pm,
> > > mess.
> > > > 893, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :55 pm, mess. CTP list 895) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Arminius Maior (CTP list declaration on Dec. 2, 9 :10
> pm,
> > > > mess. 897, registered on Dec. 2, 11 :31 pm, mess. CTP list
> 899) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus (CTP list declaration on
> > Dec.
> > > 3,
> > > > 9 :56 pm, mess. 901, registered on Dec. 4, 6 :23 pm, mess.

CTP

> > list
> > > > 904) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Bianchius Antonius, currently in charge (CTP list
> > > declaration
> > > > on Dec. 6, 9 :55 pm, mess. 910, registered on Dec. 7, 7 :54
> pm,
> > > mess.
> > > > CTP list 911).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. Election of the two Aediles of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > > a.u.c.).
> > > > The only citizen whose candidacy has been legally registered
> is :
> > > >
> > > > Julilla Sempronia Magna (CTP list
> > > > declaration on Dec. 5, 7 :13 pm, mess. 906, registered on

Dec.

> 5,
> > > > 11 :14 pm, mess. CTP list 907).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Article 4
> > > >
> > > > The appropriate magistrates of Nova Roma are responsible,
> > > > as far as each one is concerned by the present edict,
> > > > for executing it. This edict which will be published in the
> > > > Tabularium of Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > > Issued in Caen, city of the Viducasses, France, this twenty
> > second
> > > > day of December, 2005 C.E. (22 December 2759), during the
> > > consulate of
> > > > Fr. Apulus Caesar and Ga. Popillius Laenas
> > > >
> > > > scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia,
> > > > a.d. XI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLVIIII a.u.c.
> > > >
> > > > Publius Memmius Albucius
> > > > Tribunus Plebis
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

---Merry Christmas to you too Lentule !:

I saw your website....you look so Roman, amice. But I hope Santa
will bring you some caligae to compliment your well draped toga!
They are a fortune though. Definitely 'not' a stocking stuffer.

Vale,
Po
In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@y...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Quaestor Kandidatus Quiritibus SPD:
>
> I just wanted to note that in the next 4 days I won't be able to

use internet because I have to go away for the Christmas holidays.

>
> Therefore I wish Merry Christmas to all my fellow citizen and

happy Saturnalia!

>
> VALETE QUAM LAETISSIME!
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
> www.cnlentulus.iweb.hu
> -------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
> Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
> Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

M. Hortensia Senatricae P. Strabonis Quiritibus spd;
no need to apologize you helped constructively. That is
entirely appreciated.
Diana Octavia, I don't have such a sanguine view of Albucius's
work- he vetoed the Megalesia, the Plebian Ludi and then the
elections. He also never helped Saturninus with the Plebian
Ludi...with 'work' like this I wish he'd celebrate one holiday & rest!
M . Hortensia Maior

And wishing
a very Merry Christmas to all Christian Cives in Nova Roma!!!!!

> First off, I apologize...I was likely typing around the same time
> you were as I didn't see this post before I posted my last respondeo
> to Equitius Cato.
>
> So if I sounded as though you were not working on things, one or
> more of you, I apologize.
>
> I'm glad you took my suggestions in good faith. I did not mean to
> offend anyone, just acknowledge and try to ameliorate the situation.
>
> Valete bene,
> Pompeia
>
>
> >

Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
since the burning issue is over I retitled the thread for those
interested in the discussion., I just remembered the term in English
Common Law is "constructive notice"....since the elections went
foward without objection we make the assumption that the plebs
had 'constructive notice' ...meaning a posting in the CPT that
elections were announced. there might be another legal principle as
Cordus said; we did it without objection so it's okay...
valete
M. Hortensia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia P. Strabonis, Cordo, Catonis, Octavioque spd;
> I vetoed Albucius's edict & declared the election a 'fait
> accompli' (what is the Latin;-) around 2 a.m.. thanks to Senatrix
> Strabo's quick thinking.
>
> We don't need any fancy theories, English Common Law which
> is a descendant of Roman Law has the concept of a 'fictional
notice'
> [cant think of the real legal term] meaning if no one objects than
> it is deemed that you permitted tha action to occur.
>
> Since the tribs forgot to make the announcement in the CPT but the
> elections went forward without the legal notice without objection,
> we make the assumption that the plebs had their notice....That's
it.
>
> Albucius's problems stem from his analysis the leges from an EU
> point of view, not Roman law or Roman history.
>
> I propose we bestow upon Albucius the cognomen "Intercessor" for
all
> his fun uses of his veto power without a positive solution: the
> Ludi, the elections....;-)
> positively the last time,
> Marca Hortensia Maior TRP (Nov. 2005)
>
> Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
> that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus
&
> I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end
of
> year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!
> >
> > M. Hortensia Senatrice P. Strabonis spd;
> > thank you thank you Senatrix Pompeia Strabo for an
> > excellent suggestion; I am very grateful!....I veto Albucius's
> > election call, as an election of the Plebians has occurred...I
> voted
> > in the cista and can affirm that the CPT was listed and
candidates
> > within as well as the brilliant 'write in' choice...that saves
> wear
> > and tear on the webmaster, the diribatores & the Quirites so we
> > won't need that by-election that my error caused.
> > Again my apologies for forgetting to call the CPT,
> > bene vale
> > M. Hortensia Maior TRP -2005...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > agree with every sensible, wonderful suggestion below.
> > > Pompeia: Not necessarily. You could consider the suggestion
> > above.
> > > Alternately: there are five of you and a majority of you
*could
> > > *pronounce intersessio against your most recent election call,
> and
> > > further: affirm that an election of the Plebian people has
> > occurred,
> > > although the wrong verbage was employed to convene same, and
> thus
> > to
> > > nix the Plebs' wishes (and likely their interest) by convening
a
> > new
> > > election out of a bad choice of words is against the spirit of
> the
> > > constitution; further, it potentially compromises the Plebian
> (and
> > > often Patrician) entitlement to a dissenting voice in
government
> > > next year, should one be required. I do not wish to see
another
> > year
> > > of contesting Tribune potestas...over technical
> snags/ambiguities.
> > > It stunts our growth as a republic, this sort of thing, I feel.
> > >
> > > Quirites.....am I understanding this situation correctly?
When
> I
> > > logged into the cista to vote...there were three comitia
> > open...one
> > > I could not get in to the Comitia Plebius Tributa of course as
a
> > > Patrician...but three were listed....could someone tell me
that
> > > three were *not* listed at the onset of these elections?
> > > >
> > > > So please find all, in the absence of any answer from my
est.
> > > > Colleagues, an official convening edict.
> > > >
> > > > You will thus see that the (official) contio period is tiny
> and
> > > > falling in Christmas time. So please all (Christians... ;-
) )
> > > > forgive "us" this. I hope that the fact that we all know
well
> > now
> > >
> > > Pompeia: It is not the Christians, Jesus, Santa, Kahless the
> > > Unforgettable, whomever,.. you are potentially offending...it
is
> > the
> > > Plebian order within Nova Roma, with respect. Those who
elected
> > you
> > > to represent their rights and needs. Saturnalia ends I
believe
> > > tomorrow (if you go by Caligula's numbers :)), so I am not
sure
> > what
> > > Christmas has to do with all of this. I know not all vote
> > counters
> > > are Christians, as a matter of trivia, Honoured Tribune. We
> must
> > > take care not to compromise Plebian rights to representation
> come
> > > Ian. I 2759. That is my concern.
> > >
> > > the
> > > > names of our 1 + 5 candidates, and also that there are not
> more
> > > > runners than open positions, will make debates shorter and
> > easier.
> > > >
> > > > The voting period must legally last 5 days. So votes will be
> > able
> > > to
> > > > be cast till 30/12 midnight Rome time. Here too, please all
> > > > diribitores, the magister aranearius and other magistrates
and
> > > > assistants involved in the process of counting and stating
the
> > > votes
> > > > forgive this extreme schedule.
> > > >
> > > > I propose, if every constitutional power agrees this
proposal,
> > > that
> > > > the first days of January 2006 could help these last
> processings
> > > > ending, if necessary. Meanwhile, during the first days of
next
> > > 2759
> > > > auc, our 1+5 candidates will be able to take contact,
> > > unofficially,
> > > > with their future tasks.
> > > >
> > > > A by-election will have to be called by the new-elected
> Tribunes
> > > to
> > > > get a 2nd Aedilis Plebis.
> > >
> > > Pompeia: I think something else can be worked out. But if
you
> > > insist, and you do not receive intercessio from your
collegiae,
> > then
> > > you may proceed with a new election, and even if your vote
> > counters
> > > are not doing 'the Christmas thing', they may still be
busy....
> > in
> > > which case, you would have to issue an edictum stating that
> since
> > no
> > > diribitores are available to help you tally the votes, then
> > Plebian
> > > X and Plebian Y shall be appointed to count votes.....or call
> the
> > > Senate into session for assistance if you get stuck....as
> Tribune
> > > you may do that. In either case, this linguistic/technical
> hole,
> > > with respect to the current cista proceedings, has to be
> plugged.
> > > That is why edictum were invented I do believe.
> > >
> > > We have to take steps, one way or the other, to ensure that
the
> > > legality of this election is affirmed....or...a new one will
> > indeed
> > > have to be held....that is up to this year's Tribunes....they
> have
> > > the potestas....
> > >
> > > Worst case scenerio:
> > >
> > >
> > > I recommend intercessio against this 'new' election if it is
> still
> > a
> > > factor within the next day or so.. (if I understand things
> > > correctly) . And even better separately (essentially in my
> view),
> > > an edictum issued by the majority of Tribunes affirming the
> > validity
> > > of these recent elections....to safeguard the validity of the
> > > potestas of the incoming Tribunes (Tribunes may issue
edicta).
> > > Likewise in this edictum, I would affirm the validity of the
> > > election of the Plebian Aedile.
> > >
> > > Sorry to 'butt in' as a Patrician, but I believe that Tribunes
> are
> > > an integral part of the balance of decision making...an
integral
> > > component of the push/pull checks and balances of our Roman-
> based
> > > government/judicial system, and their election has to be
> > recognized
> > > as bona fide and affirmed beyond question....as with any other
> > > magisterial election. They play a large role.
> > >
> > > Valete bene.........Po
> > > >
> > > > Valete omnes,
> > > >
> > > > PMA
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > TRIBUNE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
> > > > ON THE CONVENING OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
> > > > (Latin text available on demand)
> > > >
> > > > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, Tribune of the Plebs, by the
> > authority
> > > > vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma,
> > > >
> > > > In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specially its
> article
> > > > III.C., IV.7. and IV.A.5,
> > > > In view of my Edict (Dec. 9 12 :57 CPT list) on the annual
> > calling
> > > > for candidates for the plebeian offices of Tribunes of the
> Plebs
> > > and
> > > > Aediles of the Plebs (« ELECTIONS - PLEBS - 2nd period
closed -
>
> > > > OFFICIAL CANDIDACIES »),
> > > >
> > > > Edicts :
> > > >
> > > > Article 1
> > > >
> > > > The Comitia plebis tributa are convened.
> > > >
> > > > Article 2
> > > >
> > > > The schedule of this comitial session is the following one :
> > > >
> > > > - debates (contio) :
> > > >
> > > > . beginning on December 24, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time ;
> > > > . ending on December 25, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > > >
> > > > - vote :
> > > >
> > > > . beginning on December 26, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time;
> > > > . ending on December 30, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Article 3
> > > >
> > > > The agenda of this comitial session is the following one :
> > > >
> > > > 1. Election of the five Tribunes of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > > a.u.c.).
> > > > The 5 citizens whose candidacy has been legally registered
> are :
> > > >
> > > > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa (CTP list declaration on Nov. 26,
> 12 :14
> > > am,
> > > > mess. 890, registered on Nov. 26, 11 :02 am, mess. CTP list
> > 891) ;
> > > >
> > > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28,
> > 7 :39
> > > > am, mess. 892, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :49 pm, mess. CTP
list
> > > 894) ;
> > > >
> > > > Cnaeus Salix Astur (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28, 12 :38
> pm,
> > > mess.
> > > > 893, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :55 pm, mess. CTP list 895) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Arminius Maior (CTP list declaration on Dec. 2, 9 :10
> pm,
> > > > mess. 897, registered on Dec. 2, 11 :31 pm, mess. CTP list
> 899) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus (CTP list declaration on
> > Dec.
> > > 3,
> > > > 9 :56 pm, mess. 901, registered on Dec. 4, 6 :23 pm, mess.
CTP
> > list
> > > > 904) ;
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Bianchius Antonius, currently in charge (CTP list
> > > declaration
> > > > on Dec. 6, 9 :55 pm, mess. 910, registered on Dec. 7, 7 :54
> pm,
> > > mess.
> > > > CTP list 911).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. Election of the two Aediles of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > > a.u.c.).
> > > > The only citizen whose candidacy has been legally registered
> is :
> > > >
> > > > Julilla Sempronia Magna (CTP list
> > > > declaration on Dec. 5, 7 :13 pm, mess. 906, registered on
Dec.
> 5,
> > > > 11 :14 pm, mess. CTP list 907).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Article 4
> > > >
> > > > The appropriate magistrates of Nova Roma are responsible,
> > > > as far as each one is concerned by the present edict,
> > > > for executing it. This edict which will be published in the
> > > > Tabularium of Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > > Issued in Caen, city of the Viducasses, France, this twenty
> > second
> > > > day of December, 2005 C.E. (22 December 2759), during the
> > > consulate of
> > > > Fr. Apulus Caesar and Ga. Popillius Laenas
> > > >
> > > > scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia,
> > > > a.d. XI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLVIIII a.u.c.
> > > >
> > > > Publius Memmius Albucius
> > > > Tribunus Plebis
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni quiritibus
omnibusque S.P.D.

I must confess that I didn¹t see any notice convening the plebeian
comitia, and so informed our magister Latinitatis, since I must remind him
of the timing of elections and the candidates for the various offices.

>
>
> Salve Equitius Cato:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> <mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
>> >
>> > Salvete omnes.
>> >
>> > Senatrix, your desire to see this nonsense end is admirable;
> however,
>> > it would be far simpler if one of the tribunes would just accept
> the
>> > Magister Aranearius' work as an extension of tribunician potestas
> for
>> > this particular instance --- and ANNOUNCE that fact.
>
> Po: Yeah, that would be ideal, but alas, not our call. You can tell
> that I am hoping for a solution to settle this? I admit it :). I
> went shopping in the Tabularium,
>
>
> ATS: Now, Po, didn¹t we put up a big sign on the Tabularium door saying
> ³UNDER CONSTRUCTION. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!² The (tentative) list with the
> revised names of most of the laws was uploaded just yesterday, and I am only
> about halfway through the corrections‹and not all of the corrected laws have
> been uploaded (though most have been), and some require other therapy in
> addition to uploading, the latter of which has been done. The absence of
> correction should have been evident from the mishmash of spelling and dreadful
> Latin in the titles of the leges Morauiae cited today.
>
> but the above was the best
> legislative deal I could come up with, aside from the suggestion to
> issue an edictum, using Cordus' proposed methodology to cover the
> potestas of the webmaster thing.
>
> ATS: There may be some others of interest, but that at the one on
> magistratuum aetate (corrected, and presumed uploaded) may be the most
> relevant. There are several laws dealing specifically with the comitia plebis
> tributa.
>
> Seriously....
>
> If nothing else, the Lex Grylla demonstrates that one way or the
> other, arrangements have to be made for some Tribs. We can't just
> say 'Well, folks, no Tribs for you this year'. As I've said before,
> they are an integral part of our check/balance Romanesque decision-
> making process.
>
> ATS: The Lex Grylla has been corrected, and probably uploaded in correct
> form‹I¹ll have to check.
>
> Absolutely we cannot go without our tribunes and other plebeian
> magistrates. It¹s bad enough that one of the aediles plebis vanished just
> before he had to supervise the ludi assigned to him, and that one of them from
> the previous year never showed up to take the oath of office.
>> >
>> > This whole election season has been a mess: poorly planned, poorly
>> > executed, and in violation of Nova Roman law in several instances.
>> > Can we not just get this done with?
>
> Po: This is the first time I've ever seen as many rough roads...,
> I'll give you that....maybe others have, but I haven't since 2000,
> unless they were very well kept behind the scenes.
>
> ATS: Well, this year circumstances beyond the control of the convening
> consul surely affected this. That, however, doesn¹t explain why the plebeian
> elections weren¹t convened. They don¹t affect me directly as I can¹t vote in
> them, but they should have been convened when the others were, or as soon as
> possible thereafter. Amid all of the discussion on dies nefasti and such, one
> might have expected that someone (apart from Cordus and yours truly, neither
> of whom is a magistrate with any power in such matters) should have noticed
> this.
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > Cato
>
> Bene vale,
> Po
>> >
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve A. Tullia Scholastica et Salvete Omnes:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@l...> wrote:

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni

quiritibus

> omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> I must confess that I didn¹t see any notice convening the

plebeian

> comitia, and so informed our magister Latinitatis, since I must

remind him

> of the timing of elections and the candidates for the various

offices.

Pompeia respondeo: Thank you for your info. I think it has pretty
much been established that there wasn't one.

Regarding the Tabularium comment I issued to Cato, to which you in
turn respond below, I was referring in my discourse to Cato
Quaestor to the validity and application of any legal language which
might help us out. It was far, far from being a complaint about the
Latin nomenclature and the arrangement of the Leges. I am not sure
how you arrived at this conclusion....I was talking about the 'best
legal deal I could find'. I was shopping for laws, not nitpicking
the decor :) As if I would be in a position to do that to begin
with. My Latin is terrible, I admit it!

Vale Amica
Pompeia

> >
> >
> > Salve Equitius Cato:
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> > <mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> >> >
> >> > Salvete omnes.
> >> >
> >> > Senatrix, your desire to see this nonsense end is admirable;
> > however,
> >> > it would be far simpler if one of the tribunes would just

accept

> > the
> >> > Magister Aranearius' work as an extension of tribunician

potestas

> > for
> >> > this particular instance --- and ANNOUNCE that fact.
> >
> > Po: Yeah, that would be ideal, but alas, not our call. You can

tell

> > that I am hoping for a solution to settle this? I admit it :).

I

> > went shopping in the Tabularium,
> >
> >
> > ATS: Now, Po, didn¹t we put up a big sign on the Tabularium

door saying

> > ³UNDER CONSTRUCTION. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!² The (tentative)

list with the

> > revised names of most of the laws was uploaded just yesterday,

and I am only

> > about halfway through the corrections‹and not all of the

corrected laws have

> > been uploaded (though most have been), and some require other

therapy in

> > addition to uploading, the latter of which has been done. The

absence of

> > correction should have been evident from the mishmash of

spelling and dreadful

> > Latin in the titles of the leges Morauiae cited today.
> >
> > but the above was the best
> > legislative deal I could come up with, aside from the suggestion

to

> > issue an edictum, using Cordus' proposed methodology to cover the
> > potestas of the webmaster thing.
> >
> > ATS: There may be some others of interest, but that at the

one on

> > magistratuum aetate (corrected, and presumed uploaded) may be

the most

> > relevant. There are several laws dealing specifically with the

comitia plebis

> > tributa.
> >
> > Seriously....
> >
> > If nothing else, the Lex Grylla demonstrates that one way or the
> > other, arrangements have to be made for some Tribs. We can't just
> > say 'Well, folks, no Tribs for you this year'. As I've said

before,

> > they are an integral part of our check/balance Romanesque

decision-

> > making process.
> >
> > ATS: The Lex Grylla has been corrected, and probably

uploaded in correct

> > form‹I¹ll have to check.
> >
> > Absolutely we cannot go without our tribunes and other

plebeian

> > magistrates. It¹s bad enough that one of the aediles plebis

vanished just

> > before he had to supervise the ludi assigned to him, and that

one of them from

> > the previous year never showed up to take the oath of office.
> >> >
> >> > This whole election season has been a mess: poorly planned,

poorly

> >> > executed, and in violation of Nova Roman law in several

instances.

> >> > Can we not just get this done with?
> >
> > Po: This is the first time I've ever seen as many rough

roads...,

> > I'll give you that....maybe others have, but I haven't since

2000,

> > unless they were very well kept behind the scenes.
> >
> > ATS: Well, this year circumstances beyond the control of

the convening

> > consul surely affected this. That, however, doesn¹t explain why

the plebeian

> > elections weren¹t convened. They don¹t affect me directly as I

can¹t vote in

> > them, but they should have been convened when the others were,

or as soon as

> > possible thereafter. Amid all of the discussion on dies nefasti

and such, one

> > might have expected that someone (apart from Cordus and yours

truly, neither

> > of whom is a magistrate with any power in such matters) should

have noticed

> > this.
> >> >
> >> > Valete,
> >> >
> >> > Cato
> >
> > Bene vale,
> > Po
> >> >
> >
> > Vale, et ualete,
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Nova-Roma
group.

File : /domus_listing 9.xls
Uploaded by : caesofabius <christer.edling@...>
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Regards,

caesofabius <christer.edling@...>

Oh my Zeus, what have I gotten myself into THIS time?

Gaius Pontius Celsus, bibliothecarius

Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
M. Hortensia P. Strabonis, Cordo, Catonis, Octavioque spd;
I vetoed Albucius's edict & declared the election a 'fait
accompli' (what is the Latin;-) around 2 a.m.. thanks to Senatrix
Strabo's quick thinking.

We don't need any fancy theories, English Common Law which
is a descendant of Roman Law has the concept of a 'fictional notice'
[cant think of the real legal term] meaning if no one objects than
it is deemed that you permitted tha action to occur.

Since the tribs forgot to make the announcement in the CPT but the
elections went forward without the legal notice without objection,
we make the assumption that the plebs had their notice....That's it.

Albucius's problems stem from his analysis the leges from an EU
point of view, not Roman law or Roman history.

I propose we bestow upon Albucius the cognomen "Intercessor" for all
his fun uses of his veto power without a positive solution: the
Ludi, the elections....;-)
positively the last time,
Marca Hortensia Maior TRP (Nov. 2005)

Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus &
I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end of
year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!

>
> M. Hortensia Senatrice P. Strabonis spd;
> thank you thank you Senatrix Pompeia Strabo for an
> excellent suggestion; I am very grateful!....I veto Albucius's
> election call, as an election of the Plebians has occurred...I

voted

> in the cista and can affirm that the CPT was listed and candidates
> within as well as the brilliant 'write in' choice...that saves

wear

> and tear on the webmaster, the diribatores & the Quirites so we
> won't need that by-election that my error caused.
> Again my apologies for forgetting to call the CPT,
> bene vale
> M. Hortensia Maior TRP -2005...
>
>
>
>
>
> agree with every sensible, wonderful suggestion below.
> > Pompeia: Not necessarily. You could consider the suggestion
> above.
> > Alternately: there are five of you and a majority of you *could
> > *pronounce intersessio against your most recent election call,

and

> > further: affirm that an election of the Plebian people has
> occurred,
> > although the wrong verbage was employed to convene same, and

thus

> to
> > nix the Plebs' wishes (and likely their interest) by convening a
> new
> > election out of a bad choice of words is against the spirit of

the

> > constitution; further, it potentially compromises the Plebian

(and

> > often Patrician) entitlement to a dissenting voice in government
> > next year, should one be required. I do not wish to see another
> year
> > of contesting Tribune potestas...over technical

snags/ambiguities.

> > It stunts our growth as a republic, this sort of thing, I feel.
> >
> > Quirites.....am I understanding this situation correctly? When

I

> > logged into the cista to vote...there were three comitia
> open...one
> > I could not get in to the Comitia Plebius Tributa of course as a
> > Patrician...but three were listed....could someone tell me that
> > three were *not* listed at the onset of these elections?
> > >
> > > So please find all, in the absence of any answer from my est.
> > > Colleagues, an official convening edict.
> > >
> > > You will thus see that the (official) contio period is tiny

and

> > > falling in Christmas time. So please all (Christians... ;-) )
> > > forgive "us" this. I hope that the fact that we all know well
> now
> >
> > Pompeia: It is not the Christians, Jesus, Santa, Kahless the
> > Unforgettable, whomever,.. you are potentially offending...it is
> the
> > Plebian order within Nova Roma, with respect. Those who elected
> you
> > to represent their rights and needs. Saturnalia ends I believe
> > tomorrow (if you go by Caligula's numbers :)), so I am not sure
> what
> > Christmas has to do with all of this. I know not all vote
> counters
> > are Christians, as a matter of trivia, Honoured Tribune. We

must

> > take care not to compromise Plebian rights to representation

come

> > Ian. I 2759. That is my concern.
> >
> > the
> > > names of our 1 + 5 candidates, and also that there are not

more

> > > runners than open positions, will make debates shorter and
> easier.
> > >
> > > The voting period must legally last 5 days. So votes will be
> able
> > to
> > > be cast till 30/12 midnight Rome time. Here too, please all
> > > diribitores, the magister aranearius and other magistrates and
> > > assistants involved in the process of counting and stating the
> > votes
> > > forgive this extreme schedule.
> > >
> > > I propose, if every constitutional power agrees this proposal,
> > that
> > > the first days of January 2006 could help these last

processings

> > > ending, if necessary. Meanwhile, during the first days of next
> > 2759
> > > auc, our 1+5 candidates will be able to take contact,
> > unofficially,
> > > with their future tasks.
> > >
> > > A by-election will have to be called by the new-elected

Tribunes

> > to
> > > get a 2nd Aedilis Plebis.
> >
> > Pompeia: I think something else can be worked out. But if you
> > insist, and you do not receive intercessio from your collegiae,
> then
> > you may proceed with a new election, and even if your vote
> counters
> > are not doing 'the Christmas thing', they may still be busy....
> in
> > which case, you would have to issue an edictum stating that

since

> no
> > diribitores are available to help you tally the votes, then
> Plebian
> > X and Plebian Y shall be appointed to count votes.....or call

the

> > Senate into session for assistance if you get stuck....as

Tribune

> > you may do that. In either case, this linguistic/technical

hole,

> > with respect to the current cista proceedings, has to be

plugged.

> > That is why edictum were invented I do believe.
> >
> > We have to take steps, one way or the other, to ensure that the
> > legality of this election is affirmed....or...a new one will
> indeed
> > have to be held....that is up to this year's Tribunes....they

have

> > the potestas....
> >
> > Worst case scenerio:
> >
> >
> > I recommend intercessio against this 'new' election if it is

still

> a
> > factor within the next day or so.. (if I understand things
> > correctly) . And even better separately (essentially in my

view),

> > an edictum issued by the majority of Tribunes affirming the
> validity
> > of these recent elections....to safeguard the validity of the
> > potestas of the incoming Tribunes (Tribunes may issue edicta).
> > Likewise in this edictum, I would affirm the validity of the
> > election of the Plebian Aedile.
> >
> > Sorry to 'butt in' as a Patrician, but I believe that Tribunes

are

> > an integral part of the balance of decision making...an integral
> > component of the push/pull checks and balances of our Roman-

based

> > government/judicial system, and their election has to be
> recognized
> > as bona fide and affirmed beyond question....as with any other
> > magisterial election. They play a large role.
> >
> > Valete bene.........Po
> > >
> > > Valete omnes,
> > >
> > > PMA
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > TRIBUNE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
> > > ON THE CONVENING OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
> > > (Latin text available on demand)
> > >
> > > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, Tribune of the Plebs, by the
> authority
> > > vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma,
> > >
> > > In view of the Constitution of Nova Roma, specially its

article

> > > III.C., IV.7. and IV.A.5,
> > > In view of my Edict (Dec. 9 12 :57 CPT list) on the annual
> calling
> > > for candidates for the plebeian offices of Tribunes of the

Plebs

> > and
> > > Aediles of the Plebs (« ELECTIONS - PLEBS - 2nd period closed -

> > > OFFICIAL CANDIDACIES »),
> > >
> > > Edicts :
> > >
> > > Article 1
> > >
> > > The Comitia plebis tributa are convened.
> > >
> > > Article 2
> > >
> > > The schedule of this comitial session is the following one :
> > >
> > > - debates (contio) :
> > >
> > > . beginning on December 24, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time ;
> > > . ending on December 25, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > >
> > > - vote :
> > >
> > > . beginning on December 26, 2005, at 00:00 Rome time;
> > > . ending on December 30, 2005, at 24:00 Rome time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Article 3
> > >
> > > The agenda of this comitial session is the following one :
> > >
> > > 1. Election of the five Tribunes of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > a.u.c.).
> > > The 5 citizens whose candidacy has been legally registered

are :

> > >
> > > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa (CTP list declaration on Nov. 26,

12 :14

> > am,
> > > mess. 890, registered on Nov. 26, 11 :02 am, mess. CTP list
> 891) ;
> > >
> > > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28,
> 7 :39
> > > am, mess. 892, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :49 pm, mess. CTP list
> > 894) ;
> > >
> > > Cnaeus Salix Astur (CTP list declaration on Nov. 28, 12 :38

pm,

> > mess.
> > > 893, registered on Nov. 28, 7 :55 pm, mess. CTP list 895) ;
> > >
> > > Marcus Arminius Maior (CTP list declaration on Dec. 2, 9 :10

pm,

> > > mess. 897, registered on Dec. 2, 11 :31 pm, mess. CTP list

899) ;

> > >
> > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus (CTP list declaration on
> Dec.
> > 3,
> > > 9 :56 pm, mess. 901, registered on Dec. 4, 6 :23 pm, mess. CTP
> list
> > > 904) ;
> > >
> > > Marcus Bianchius Antonius, currently in charge (CTP list
> > declaration
> > > on Dec. 6, 9 :55 pm, mess. 910, registered on Dec. 7, 7 :54

pm,

> > mess.
> > > CTP list 911).
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Election of the two Aediles of the Plebs for 2006 (2759
> > a.u.c.).
> > > The only citizen whose candidacy has been legally registered

is :

> > >
> > > Julilla Sempronia Magna (CTP list
> > > declaration on Dec. 5, 7 :13 pm, mess. 906, registered on Dec.

5,

> > > 11 :14 pm, mess. CTP list 907).
> > >
> > >
> > > Article 4
> > >
> > > The appropriate magistrates of Nova Roma are responsible,
> > > as far as each one is concerned by the present edict,
> > > for executing it. This edict which will be published in the
> > > Tabularium of Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > Issued in Caen, city of the Viducasses, France, this twenty
> second
> > > day of December, 2005 C.E. (22 December 2759), during the
> > consulate of
> > > Fr. Apulus Caesar and Ga. Popillius Laenas
> > >
> > > scr. Cadomago, civ. Viducassium, Gallia,
> > > a.d. XI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLVIIII a.u.c.
> > >
> > > Publius Memmius Albucius
> > > Tribunus Plebis
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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Bryce Rumbles
26º 7' 35"N
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"I don't believe that libraries should be drab places where people sit in silence, and that's been the main reason for our policy of employing wild animals as librarians."







---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salue, Po, et saluete, quirites!
>
> ---Salve A. Tullia Scholastica et Salvete Omnes:
>
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@l...> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni
> quiritibus
>> > omnibusque S.P.D.
>> >
>> > I must confess that I didn¹t see any notice convening the
> plebeian
>> > comitia, and so informed our magister Latinitatis, since I must
> remind him
>> > of the timing of elections and the candidates for the various
> offices.
>
> Pompeia respondeo: Thank you for your info. I think it has pretty
> much been established that there wasn't one.
>
> ATS: Yes, and I simply thought that I had missed it, as apparently was
> the case with Cordus.
>
> Regarding the Tabularium comment I issued to Cato, to which you in
> turn respond below, I was referring in my discourse to Cato
> Quaestor to the validity and application of any legal language which
> might help us out. It was far, far from being a complaint about the
> Latin nomenclature and the arrangement of the Leges.
>
> ATS: I didn¹t take it that way at all‹I was only kidding that this is not
> the best time to go shopping in the Tabularium as the construction project is
> in full swing‹it¹s strictly a hard-hat area now. About 30 of the existing
> laws have been uploaded, and I am around the halfway point in correction.
>
> I am not sure
> how you arrived at this conclusion....I was talking about the 'best
> legal deal I could find'. I was shopping for laws, not nitpicking
> the decor :)
>
> ATS: I know, Po; you simply misunderstood me.
>
> As if I would be in a position to do that to begin
> with. My Latin is terrible, I admit it!
>
> ATS: Both the magister Latinitatis and I conduct these Latin classes at
> the Academia...and most of my students are doing work in the A range, though
> their instructor isn¹t known for short or easy tests, and the text spreads the
> grammar on like peanut butter and jam.
>
> Vale Amica
> Pompeia
>
> Vale, amica, et valete, omnes.
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Equitius Cato:
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
>>> > > <mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salvete omnes.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Senatrix, your desire to see this nonsense end is admirable;
>>> > > however,
>>>>> > >> > it would be far simpler if one of the tribunes would just
> accept
>>> > > the
>>>>> > >> > Magister Aranearius' work as an extension of tribunician
> potestas
>>> > > for
>>>>> > >> > this particular instance --- and ANNOUNCE that fact.
>>> > >
>>> > > Po: Yeah, that would be ideal, but alas, not our call. You can
> tell
>>> > > that I am hoping for a solution to settle this? I admit it :).
> I
>>> > > went shopping in the Tabularium,
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Now, Po, didn¹t we put up a big sign on the Tabularium
> door saying
>>> > > ³UNDER CONSTRUCTION. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!² The (tentative)
> list with the
>>> > > revised names of most of the laws was uploaded just yesterday,
> and I am only
>>> > > about halfway through the corrections‹and not all of the
> corrected laws have
>>> > > been uploaded (though most have been), and some require other
> therapy in
>>> > > addition to uploading, the latter of which has been done. The
> absence of
>>> > > correction should have been evident from the mishmash of
> spelling and dreadful
>>> > > Latin in the titles of the leges Morauiae cited today.
>>> > >
>>> > > but the above was the best
>>> > > legislative deal I could come up with, aside from the suggestion
> to
>>> > > issue an edictum, using Cordus' proposed methodology to cover the
>>> > > potestas of the webmaster thing.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: There may be some others of interest, but that at the
> one on
>>> > > magistratuum aetate (corrected, and presumed uploaded) may be
> the most
>>> > > relevant. There are several laws dealing specifically with the
> comitia plebis
>>> > > tributa.
>>> > >
>>> > > Seriously....
>>> > >
>>> > > If nothing else, the Lex Grylla demonstrates that one way or the
>>> > > other, arrangements have to be made for some Tribs. We can't just
>>> > > say 'Well, folks, no Tribs for you this year'. As I've said
> before,
>>> > > they are an integral part of our check/balance Romanesque
> decision-
>>> > > making process.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: The Lex Grylla has been corrected, and probably
> uploaded in correct
>>> > > form‹I¹ll have to check.
>>> > >
>>> > > Absolutely we cannot go without our tribunes and other
> plebeian
>>> > > magistrates. It¹s bad enough that one of the aediles plebis
> vanished just
>>> > > before he had to supervise the ludi assigned to him, and that
> one of them from
>>> > > the previous year never showed up to take the oath of office.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > This whole election season has been a mess: poorly planned,
> poorly
>>>>> > >> > executed, and in violation of Nova Roman law in several
> instances.
>>>>> > >> > Can we not just get this done with?
>>> > >
>>> > > Po: This is the first time I've ever seen as many rough
> roads...,
>>> > > I'll give you that....maybe others have, but I haven't since
> 2000,
>>> > > unless they were very well kept behind the scenes.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Well, this year circumstances beyond the control of
> the convening
>>> > > consul surely affected this. That, however, doesn¹t explain why
> the plebeian
>>> > > elections weren¹t convened. They don¹t affect me directly as I
> can¹t vote in
>>> > > them, but they should have been convened when the others were,
> or as soon as
>>> > > possible thereafter. Amid all of the discussion on dies nefasti
> and such, one
>>> > > might have expected that someone (apart from Cordus and yours
> truly, neither
>>> > > of whom is a magistrate with any power in such matters) should
> have noticed
>>> > > this.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Valete,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Cato
>>> > >
>>> > > Bene vale,
>>> > > Po
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et ualete,
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica
>>> > >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex Officio Censoris Caesonis Fabii Buteo Quintiliani

Edictum Censoris CFBQ XLI about the the correction of the family
facts in the "Domus project".

Because of the new Family and Gens legislation, the Album Gentium is
no longer up to date. To correct this I started the "Domus project",
back in April 2758, my Cohors Censoris CFBQ has since then collected
the needed facts, partly by contacting a lot of citizens, but also by
checking all available facts. The result is that the facts that are
needed to re-create the Album Gentium or any equivalent according to
the new standards are now gathered in one xls file.

I. What we got so far is now collected in the "Files" section of the
Nova Roma main list under the name "domus_listing 9.xls" and with the
description "Domus project, version to correct".

II. What the Censores need is a correct listing of the members of
each familia (that are citizens), including spouses and children. Any
existing domii also need to be correctly listed. Faulty cognomina,
missing familae and other possible faults also need to be corrected.

III. It is natural considering the scope of the project that what my
Cohors has collected may not be complete. Some persons may have
become "lost" in the great "ocean" of citizens. Another possible
weaknesses could be missing spouses and children that are citizens.
Even other faults may be found. This is why I need every citizen to
look the listings over.

IV. As Censor I now ask all citizens to send in all needed
corrections of the project, concerning their own familia and domus,
to the Censores by the "Censores" address that is found on the first
page of the Nova Roma main site. Any needed instructions or answers
to questions about the "domus project" will be provided by the
Censores after the 31st of December 2758.

V. The URL to the Nova Roma main list "Files" section where the file
is found is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ and when
one hits the link it will down load the file "domus_listing 9.xls" to
ones computer.

VI. A button that will take anyone to the "Files" section directly
will also soon be available on the first page of the Nova Roma main
site.

VII. I will leave the rest of the work with the "Domus project" to my
dear colleague Gnaeus Equitius Marinus and his new colleague next
year, as I withdraw from my office at the end of my term.

VIII. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given the 24th of December, in the year of the Consulship of
Franciscus Apulus Caesar and Gaius Popillius Laenas, 2758 AUC.

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFBQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Gai Ponti!

You'ze got yourself into a real heap of trouble boy! Why? Because you
is here! -:)

Io Saturnalia et Merry Christmas

QSP



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bryce Rumbles <brycerumbles@y...>
wrote:

>
> Oh my Zeus, what have I gotten myself into THIS time?
>
> Gaius Pontius Celsus, bibliothecarius
>
>

C. Equitius Cato M. Hortensiae Maori quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Tribune, you wrote:

"Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus &
I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end of
year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!"

Hooray! And how about the fact that none of that has the slightest
thing to do with the point that the election process this year has
been, legally and practically, a total mess?

Vale et valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sensei Phil Perez"
<senseiphil@n...> wrote:

>
> Salve Africola ;-),
>
> Here is something you should know about Kwanza's founder, I'm

surprised you didn't mention it:

>

Salve Amice,

I was talking about the holiday, not the founder. People change, as we
all know. Some lives bear bitter fruit early and only later bring
forth a more palatable crop.

I've known some very nice African American Christians who did
Christmas and Kwanzaa. Plus I think some of the Kwanzaa cards on Yahoo
Greetings are pretty.


Io Saturnalia!

MLA

M. Hortensia G.Catonis spd;
utter poppycock. One message not posted in the CPT & 'disaster'? I
think not, we had to get a new webmaster for voting & if not for
Albucius it would be a tempest in a teapot.
If one more tiresome Patrician wants to criticize the tribs,
missing plebian aediles bloody well become a Plebian!

Thank the gods for of Consular Astur and Senatrix Julilla Sempronia
Magna who ran. If you want better Plebian magistrates let more cives
give up their patrician status.
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Hooray! And how about the fact that none of that has the slightest
> thing to do with the point that the election process this year has
> been, legally and practically, a total mess?
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato
>

At least the cards are pretty... LOL.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
<senseiphil@...> wrote:

> Salve Africola ;-),
>
> Here is something you should know about Kwanza's

founder, I'm surprised you didn't mention it:

>
> Dr. Maulana Karenga
> It seems the founder of Kwanzaa wasn't any more

ethical than those who sung its praises. In fact, at
the same time Al Sharpton was glorifying the new
holiday, its creator was sitting in a California
prison for torturing two black women who were members
of the United Slaves, a black nationalist cult he had
founded.

> The cult leader Ron N. Everett went by the name

Karenga and in the 60's took upon himself the title
"maulana," which means "master teacher" in Swahili. He
was born on a poultry farm in Maryland, the fourteenth
child of a Baptist minister. He moved to California in
the late 50's to attend LA Community College. He later
moved to UCLA, where he got a Master's degree in
political science and African Studies and by the mid
1960's, he had established himself as a leader of the
black movement- a self described "cultural
nationalist". He had purposely used the term
"nationalist" to distinguish his group from the Black
Panthers who were Marxists. He wanted a separate black
state while the Marxists worked for integration.

>
> It seems the founder of Kwanzaa wasn't any more

ethical than those who sung its praises. In fact, at
the same time Al Sharpton was glorifying the new
holiday, its creator was sitting in a California
prison for torturing two black women who were members
of the United Slaves, a black nationalist cult he had
founded.

>
> The cult leader Ron N. Everett went by the name

Karenga and in the 60's took upon himself the title
"maulana," which means "master teacher" in Swahili. He
was born on a poultry farm in Maryland, the fourteenth
child of a Baptist minister. He moved to California in
the late 50's to attend LA Community College. He later
moved to UCLA, where he got a Master's degree in
political science and African Studies and by the mid
1960's, he had established himself as a leader of the
black movement- a self described "cultural
nationalist". He had purposely used the term
"nationalist" to distinguish his group from the Black
Panthers who were Marxists. He wanted a separate black
state while the Marxists worked for integration.

>
> The friction between his group and the Panthers

mirrored the centuries of tribal warring in Africa.
Both groups were heavily recruiting at UCLA in the
60's and vying for control of the newly developed
African Studies Department. Karenga and his group
backed one candidate for dept. head and the Panthers
another. Both began carrying guns on campus and on
Jan. 17. 1969, about 150 students gathered at the
lunchroom to discuss the problem. Two Panther members
had been admitted to the college as part of a federal
program that helped black high-school dropouts enter
the university. The meeting turned violent and ended
with two of Karenga's group, George P. Stiner and
Larry Joseph Stiner killing two. The Stiner brothers
shot two Panthers John Huggins, 23 and Alprentice
"Bunchy" Carter, 26 - dead.

>
> UCLA chancellor Charles E. Young, scared that the

violence would hurt admissions said "The students here
have handled themselves in an absolutely impeccable
manner. They have been concerned. They haven't argued
who the director should be; they have been saying what
kind of person he should be." The remarks were made
after the shooting and the university went ahead with
its Afro-American Studies Program. Meanwhile,
Karenga's group grew and performed assaults and
robberies always following the law laid down in The
Quotable Karenga, a book that laid out the "True Path
of Blackness." "The sevenfold path of blackness is
think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy
black, vote black, and live black,"

>
> On May 9, 1970 he initiated the torture session that

led to his imprisonment. The torture session was
described in the L.A. Times on May 14, 1971. "The
victims said they were living at Karenga's home when
Karenga accused them of trying to kill him by pl
=== Message Truncated ===


S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

C. Equitius Cato M. Hortensiae Maori sal.

Fiddlesticks. I would remind you, O Pleb, that is the duty of the
Patricians to be tiresome. It is among our most endearing qualities.
Harrrrumph.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia G.Catonis spd;
> utter poppycock. One message not posted in the CPT & 'disaster'? I
> think not, we had to get a new webmaster for voting & if not for
> Albucius it would be a tempest in a teapot.
> If one more tiresome Patrician wants to criticize the tribs,
> missing plebian aediles bloody well become a Plebian!

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

"In mense autem sexto missus est angelus Gabrihel a Deo in civitatem
Galilaeae cui nomen Nazareth ad virginem desponsatam viro cui nomen
erat Ioseph de domo David et nomen virginis Maria. Et ingressus
angelus ad eam dixit ave gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in
mulieribus. Quae cum vidisset turbata est in sermone eius et
cogitabat qualis esset ista salutatio. Et ait angelus ei ne timeas
Maria invenisti enim gratiam apud Deum. Ecce concipies in utero et
paries filium et vocabis nomen eius Iesum."

"Factum est autem in diebus illis exiit edictum a Caesare Augusto ut
describeretur universus orbis; haec descriptio prima facta est
praeside Syriae Cyrino, et ibant omnes ut profiterentur singuli in
suam civitatem."

"Christi autem generatio sic erat cum esset desponsata mater eius
Maria Ioseph antequam convenirent inventa est in utero habens de
Spiritu Sancto. Ioseph autem vir eius cum esset iustus et nollet eam
traducere voluit occulte dimittere eam. Haec autem eo cogitante ecce
angelus Domini in somnis apparuit ei dicens Ioseph fili David noli
timere accipere Mariam coniugem tuam quod enim in ea natum est de
Spiritu Sancto est. Pariet autem filium et vocabis nomen eius Iesum
ipse enim salvum faciet populum suum a peccatis eorum."


Valete bene,

Cato

That was beautiful. I love Latin. Thank you, Cato.
--- Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> "In mense autem sexto missus est angelus Gabrihel a

Deo in civitatem

> Galilaeae cui nomen Nazareth ad virginem desponsatam

viro cui nomen

> erat Ioseph de domo David et nomen virginis Maria.

Et ingressus

> angelus ad eam dixit ave gratia plena Dominus tecum

benedicta tu in

> mulieribus. Quae cum vidisset turbata est in sermone

eius et

> cogitabat qualis esset ista salutatio. Et ait

angelus ei ne timeas

> Maria invenisti enim gratiam apud Deum. Ecce

concipies in utero et

> paries filium et vocabis nomen eius Iesum."
>
> "Factum est autem in diebus illis exiit edictum a

Caesare Augusto ut

> describeretur universus orbis; haec descriptio prima

facta est

> praeside Syriae Cyrino, et ibant omnes ut

profiterentur singuli in

> suam civitatem."
>
> "Christi autem generatio sic erat cum esset

desponsata mater eius

> Maria Ioseph antequam convenirent inventa est in

utero habens de

> Spiritu Sancto. Ioseph autem vir eius cum esset

iustus et nollet eam

> traducere voluit occulte dimittere eam. Haec autem

eo cogitante ecce

> angelus Domini in somnis apparuit ei dicens Ioseph

fili David noli

> timere accipere Mariam coniugem tuam quod enim in ea

natum est de

> Spiritu Sancto est. Pariet autem filium et vocabis

nomen eius Iesum

> ipse enim salvum faciet populum suum a peccatis

eorum."

>
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>

S P Q R

Fidelis Ad Mortem.

Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Roman Citizen






__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

Greetings

Typical, one is always around, included Easter and the 15th of August,
then he is forced away for two weeks around Christmas time for
pressing, unavoidable and unprocrastinable personal reasons and hell
breaks loose.

Someone should give a nobel prize to the creator of Murphys law.

Now, taking my part of responsability as a Tribune for the mess, I
have to say that, on principle, I lean to the side of Albucius on
this. The three cistas were not opened at the same time and plebeian
who voted at t he beginning of the other two comitia might have not
had the chance of voting on the CPT simply because they could had even
not looked back at all for the CPT cista to be open, waiting for the
message that called them to do it (why a simple "the cista is now
open for teh CPT" message was not sent is beyond me, but anyway),
effectively losing their right to vote.

On the other side, with 5 tribune candidates for 5 position and one
aedilis candidate for two, I fail to see the practical difference.

Now, and this is an opinion of mine, romans were practical people,
altho extremely formal, so if they could had found an escamotage to
save time and respect the name if not the spirit of formalities
**whenever the pratical final result would had been exactly the
same**, they would had done it, and in this sense, I find that the
theoretical solution brought forward by Cordus (the Magister
Aerenearius borrowing, so to say, the tribunician potestas) might do
the trick.

So, again, I think Albucius is absolutely, sarosanctly right on a
principle line (and in that sense, he doesn't deserve the flak he got
in the least, as he didn't deserve much of what he got all around the
year for that), but that we could make do as we are... unless someone
can tell me a practical difference that holding another election would
do, because if ther eis one, then we should have new elections
alright.

Valete,

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus

Founder of Gens Constantinia
Tribunus Plebis
Aedilis Urbis Iterum

In a message dated 12/23/2005 4:52:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
mlcinnyc@... writes:

"Note to Cato: before criticizing us roundly, how about the fact
that Saturninus at the last moment hosted the Plebian Ludi, Fuscus &
I helped him. This was November. Then the majority of us have end of
year exams, papers & Saturnalia, & Christmas and Hannukah!"



This is probably a really, really stupid question, but if you guys can't
give the time to the project, why do you stand?
As for the election being a mess, it wasn't as bad as the '98 elections.
That time all the assemblies were all illegal, not just the Plebjans.
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 12/24/05, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>
wrote:

> V. The URL to the Nova Roma main list "Files" section where the file
> is found is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ and when
> one hits the link it will down load the file "domus_listing 9.xls" to
> ones computer.

Yes, but unfortunately since I don't have excel my computer refuses to open
it :-(

Flavia Lucilla Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IX Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"This city, mistress of the whole earth and sea, which the Romans now
inhabit, is said to have had as its earliest occupants the barbarian
Sicels, a native race. As to the condition of the place before their
time, whether it was occupied by others or uninhabited, one can
certainly say. But some time later the Aborigines gained possession of
it, having taken it from the occupants after a long war. These people
had previously lived on the mountains in unwalled villages and
scattered groups; but when the Pelasgians, with whom some other Greeks
had united, assisted them in the war against their neighbours, they
drove the Sicels out of this place, walled in many towns, and
contrived to subjugate all the country that lies between the two
rivers, the Liris and the Tiber. These rivers spring from the foot of
the Apennine mountains, the range by which all Italy is divided into
two parts throughout its length, and at points about eight hundred
stades from one another discharge themselves into the Tyrrhenian Sea,
the Tiber to the north, near the city of Ostia, and the Liris to the
south, as it flows by Minturnae, both these cities being Roman
colonies. And these people remained in this same place of abode, both
never afterwards driven out by any others; but, although they
continued to be one and the same people, their name was twice changed.
Till the time of the Trojan war they preserved their ancient name of
Aborigines; but under lalus, their king, who reigned at the time of
that war, they began to be called Latins, and when Romulus founded the
city named after himself sixteen generations after the taking of Troy,
they took the name which they now bear. And in the course of time they
contrived to raise themselves from the smallest nation to the greatest
and from the most obscure to the most illustrious, not only by their
humane reception of those who sought a home among them, but also by
sharing the rights of citizenship with all who had been conquered by
them in war after a brave resistance, by permitting all the slaves,
too, who were manumitted among them to become citizens, and by
disdaining no condition of men from whom the commonwealth might reap
an advantage, but above everything else by their form of government,
which they fashioned out of their many experiences, always extracting
something useful from every occasion.

There are some who affirm that the Aborigines, from whom the Romans
are originally descended, were natives of Italy, a stock which came
into being spontaneously (I call Italy all that peninsula which is
bounded by the Ionian Gulf and the Tyrrhenian Sea and, thirdly, by the
Alps on the landward side); and these authors say that they were first
called Aborigines because they were the founders of the families of
their descendants, or, as we should call them, genearchai or
protogonoi. Others claim that certain vagabonds without house or
home, coming together out of many places, met one another there by
chance and took up their abode in the fastnesses, living by robbery
and grazing their herds. And these writers change their name, also, to
one more suitable to their condition, calling them Aberrigenes, to
show that they were wanderers; indeed, according to these, the race of
the Aborigines would seem to be no different from those the ancients
called Leleges; for this is the name they generally gave to the
homeless and mixed peoples who had no fixed abode which they could
call their country. Still others have a story to the effect that they
were colonists sent out by those Ligurians who are neighbours of the
Umbrians. For the Ligurians inhabit not only many parts of Italy but
some parts of Gaul as well, but which of these lands is their native
country is not known, since nothing certain is said of them further."
- Dionysis of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities", 1.9-10


Today is celebrated by most Christians as the Eve of the Nativity of
Jesus Christ, probably (if a little confusingly) around 4 B.C.

"Et ibant omnes, ut profiterentur, singuli in suam civitatem. Ascendit
autem et Ioseph a Galilaea de civitate Nazareth in Iudaeam in
civitatem David, quae vocatur Bethlehem, eo quod esset de domo et
familia David, ut profiteretur cum Maria desponsata sibi, uxore
praegnante. Factum est autem, cum essent ibi, impleti sunt dies, ut
pareret, et peperit filium suum primogenitum; et pannis eum involvit
et reclinavit eum in praesepio, quia non erat eis locus in deversorio."


Valete bene!

Cato

Salve Flavia Lucilla Merula!

I am no expert, but I phoned Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus who
knows better and he suggested Open Office at
http://www.openoffice.org/ . It is available for many operating
systems like MS Windows and Linux. I doesn't work as well for the
Maintosh OS (that I use) though. In that package You will find an
Excel compatible software and it is all for free. If that doesn't
function I have cc or Magister Aranearius, but as he is very busy,
You might have to wait to get any suggestions from him.

>On 12/24/05, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>
>wrote:
>
>
>> V. The URL to the Nova Roma main list "Files" section where the file
>> is found is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ and when
>> one hits the link it will down load the file "domus_listing 9.xls" to
> > ones computer.
>
>Yes, but unfortunately since I don't have excel my computer refuses to open
>it :-(
>
>Flavia Lucilla Merula

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Censor, Consularis et Senator
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Censoris CFBQ
http://www.hanenberg-media-webdesign.com/cohors/index_uk.htm
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@l...> wrote:

>
> > Salue, Po, et saluete, quirites!
> >
> > ---Salve A. Tullia Scholastica et Salvete Omnes:
> >
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> > <fororom@l...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae-Tiberiae Straboni
> > quiritibus
> >> > omnibusque S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> > I must confess that I didn¹t see any notice convening the
> > plebeian
> >> > comitia, and so informed our magister Latinitatis, since I

must

> > remind him
> >> > of the timing of elections and the candidates for the various
> > offices.
> >
> > Pompeia respondeo: Thank you for your info. I think it has

pretty

> > much been established that there wasn't one.
> >
> > ATS: Yes, and I simply thought that I had missed it, as

apparently was

> > the case with Cordus.
> >
> > Regarding the Tabularium comment I issued to Cato, to which you

in

> > turn respond below, I was referring in my discourse to Cato
> > Quaestor to the validity and application of any legal language

which

> > might help us out. It was far, far from being a complaint about

the

> > Latin nomenclature and the arrangement of the Leges.
> >
> > ATS: I didn¹t take it that way at all‹I was only kidding

that this is not

> > the best time to go shopping in the Tabularium as the

construction project is

> > in full swing‹it¹s strictly a hard-hat area now. About 30 of

the existing

> > laws have been uploaded, and I am around the halfway point in

correction.

Po: Oh, good. Then I apologize for misunderstanding you. I think
its wonderful that proper nomenclature is being assigned to leges,
etc. Long overdue in some spots and I am happy that you have taken
on a major role in this job.

> >
> > I am not sure
> > how you arrived at this conclusion....I was talking about

the 'best

> > legal deal I could find'. I was shopping for laws, not

nitpicking

> > the decor :)
> >
> > ATS: I know, Po; you simply misunderstood me.

Po: Ibid :).

> >
> > As if I would be in a position to do that to begin
> > with. My Latin is terrible, I admit it!
> >
> > ATS: Both the magister Latinitatis and I conduct these

Latin classes at

> > the Academia...and most of my students are doing work in the A

range, though

> > their instructor isn¹t known for short or easy tests, and the

text spreads the

> > grammar on like peanut butter and jam.

Po: LOL! Good point. Well, I could certainly use the instruction,
and the peanut butter and jam :)....thanks. I'm going to do my best
to make the time to attend.

> >

Vale bene
Pompeia

> > Vale Amica
> > Pompeia
> >
> > Vale, amica, et valete, omnes.
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Salve Equitius Cato:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato"
> >>> > > <mlcinnyc@g...> wrote:
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > Salvete omnes.
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > Senatrix, your desire to see this nonsense end is

admirable;

> >>> > > however,
> >>>>> > >> > it would be far simpler if one of the tribunes would

just

> > accept
> >>> > > the
> >>>>> > >> > Magister Aranearius' work as an extension of

tribunician

> > potestas
> >>> > > for
> >>>>> > >> > this particular instance --- and ANNOUNCE that fact.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Po: Yeah, that would be ideal, but alas, not our call.

You can

> > tell
> >>> > > that I am hoping for a solution to settle this? I admit

it :).

> > I
> >>> > > went shopping in the Tabularium,
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: Now, Po, didn¹t we put up a big sign on the

Tabularium

> > door saying
> >>> > > ³UNDER CONSTRUCTION. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!² The

(tentative)

> > list with the
> >>> > > revised names of most of the laws was uploaded just

yesterday,

> > and I am only
> >>> > > about halfway through the corrections‹and not all of the
> > corrected laws have
> >>> > > been uploaded (though most have been), and some require

other

> > therapy in
> >>> > > addition to uploading, the latter of which has been done.

The

> > absence of
> >>> > > correction should have been evident from the mishmash of
> > spelling and dreadful
> >>> > > Latin in the titles of the leges Morauiae cited today.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > but the above was the best
> >>> > > legislative deal I could come up with, aside from the

suggestion

> > to
> >>> > > issue an edictum, using Cordus' proposed methodology to

cover the

> >>> > > potestas of the webmaster thing.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: There may be some others of interest, but that

at the

> > one on
> >>> > > magistratuum aetate (corrected, and presumed uploaded) may

be

> > the most
> >>> > > relevant. There are several laws dealing specifically

with the

> > comitia plebis
> >>> > > tributa.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Seriously....
> >>> > >
> >>> > > If nothing else, the Lex Grylla demonstrates that one way

or the

> >>> > > other, arrangements have to be made for some Tribs. We

can't just

> >>> > > say 'Well, folks, no Tribs for you this year'. As I've said
> > before,
> >>> > > they are an integral part of our check/balance Romanesque
> > decision-
> >>> > > making process.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: The Lex Grylla has been corrected, and probably
> > uploaded in correct
> >>> > > form‹I¹ll have to check.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Absolutely we cannot go without our tribunes and other
> > plebeian
> >>> > > magistrates. It¹s bad enough that one of the aediles

plebis

> > vanished just
> >>> > > before he had to supervise the ludi assigned to him, and

that

> > one of them from
> >>> > > the previous year never showed up to take the oath of

office.

> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > This whole election season has been a mess: poorly

planned,

> > poorly
> >>>>> > >> > executed, and in violation of Nova Roman law in

several

> > instances.
> >>>>> > >> > Can we not just get this done with?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Po: This is the first time I've ever seen as many rough
> > roads...,
> >>> > > I'll give you that....maybe others have, but I haven't

since

> > 2000,
> >>> > > unless they were very well kept behind the scenes.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: Well, this year circumstances beyond the control

of

> > the convening
> >>> > > consul surely affected this. That, however, doesn¹t

explain why

> > the plebeian
> >>> > > elections weren¹t convened. They don¹t affect me directly

as I

> > can¹t vote in
> >>> > > them, but they should have been convened when the others

were,

> > or as soon as
> >>> > > possible thereafter. Amid all of the discussion on dies

nefasti

> > and such, one
> >>> > > might have expected that someone (apart from Cordus and

yours

> > truly, neither
> >>> > > of whom is a magistrate with any power in such matters)

should

> > have noticed
> >>> > > this.
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > Valete,
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > Cato
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Bene vale,
> >>> > > Po
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Vale, et ualete,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >>> > >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VIII Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"But the most learned of the Roman historians, among whom is Porcius
Cato, who compiled with the greatest care the "origins" of the Italian
cities, Gaius Sempronius and a great many others, say that they were
Greeks, part of those who once dwelt in Achaia, and that they migrated
many generations before the Trojan war. But they do not go on to
indicate either the Greek tribe to which they belonged or the city
from which they removed, or the date or the leader of the colony, or
as the result of what turns of fortune they left their mother country;
and although they are following a Greek legend, they have cited no
Greek historian as their authority. It is uncertain, therefore, what
the truth of the matter is. But if what they say is true, the
Aborigines can be a colony of no other people but of those who are now
called Arcadians; for these were the first of all the Greeks to cross
the Ionian Gulf, under the leadership of Oenotrus, the son of Lycaon,
and to settle in Italy. This Oenotrus was the fifth from Aezeius and
Phoroneus, who were the first kings in the Peloponnesus. For Niobe was
the daughter of Phoroneus, and Pelasgus was the son of Niobe and Zeus,
it is said; Lycaon was to Aezeius and Deianira was the daughter of
Lycaon; Deianira and Pelasgus were the parents of another Lycaon,
whose son Oenotrus was born seventeen generations before the Trojan
expedition. This, then, was the time when the Greeks sent the colony
into Italy. Oenotrus left Greece because he was dissatisfied with his
portion of his father's land; for, as Lycaon had twenty-two sons, it
was necessary to divide Arcadia into as many shares. For this reason
Oenotrus left the Peloponnesus, prepared a fleet, and crossed the
Ionian Gulf with Peucetius, one of his brothers. The were accompanied
by many of their own people — for this nation is said to have been
very populous in early times — and by as many other Greeks as had less
land than was sufficient for them. Peucetius landed his people above
the Iapygian Promontory, which was the first part of Italy they made,
and settled there; and from him the inhabitants of this region were
called Peucetians. But Oenotrus with the greater part of the
expedition came into the other sea that washes the western regions
along the coast of Italy; it was then called the Ausonian Sea, are the
Ausonians who dwelt beside it, but after the Tyrrhenians became
masters at sea its name was changed to that which it now bears.

And finding there much land suitable for pasturage and much for
tillage, but for the most part unoccupied, and even that which was
inhabited not thickly populated, he cleared some of it of the
barbarians and built small towns contiguous to one another on the
mountains, which was the customary manner of habitation in use among
the ancients. And all the land he occupied, which was very extensive,
was called Oenotria, and all the people under his command Oenotrians,
which was the third name they had borne. For in the reign of Aezeius
they were called Aezeians, when Lycaon succeeded to the rule,
Lycaonians, and after Oenotrus led them into Italy they were for a
while called Oenotrians. What I say is supported by the testimony of
Sophocles, the tragic poet, in his drama entitled Triptolemus; for he
there represents Demeter as informing Triptolemus how large a tract of
land he would have to travel over while sowing it with the seeds she
had given him. For, after first referring to the eastern part of
Italy, which reaches from the Iapygian Promontory to the Sicilian
Strait, and then touching upon Sicily on the opposite side, she
returns again to the western part of Italy and enumerates the most
important nations that inhabit this coast, beginning with the
settlement of the Oenotrians. But it is enough to quote merely the
iambics in which he says:

'And after this, — first, then, upon the right,
Oenotria wide-outstretched and Tyrrhene Gulf,
And next the Ligurian land shall welcome thee.'

And Antiochus of Syracuse, a very early historian, in his account of
the settlement of Italy, when enumerating the most ancient inhabitants
in the order in which each of them held possession of any part of it,
says that first who are reported to have inhabited that country are
the Oenotrians. his words are these: "Antiochus, the son of
Xenophanes, wrote this account of Italy, which comprises all that is
most credible and certain out of the ancient tales; this country,
which is now called Italy, was formerly possessed by the Oenotrians."
Then he relates in what manner they were governed and says that in the
course of time Italus came to be their king, after whom they were
named Italians; that this man was succeeded by Morges, after whom they
were called Morgetes, and that Sicelus, being received as a guest by
Morges and setting up a kingdom for himself, divided the nation. After
which he adds these words: 'Thus those who had been Oenotrians became
Sicels, Morgetes and Italians.'" - Dionysis of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 1.11-12



Today is celebrated by most Christians as the feast of Nativity of
Jesus Christ.

"In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat
Verbum. Hoc erat in principio apud Deum, omnia per ipsum facta sunt
et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est. In ipso vita erat et
vita erat lux hominum, et lux in tenebris lucet et tenebrae eam non
comprehenderunt...et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis et
vidimus gloriam eius gloriam quasi unigeniti a Patre plenum gratiae et
veritatis." - Evangelium Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum secundum
Iohannem 1.1-5, 14

"Actum est autem cum essent ibi impleti sunt dies ut pareret et
peperit filium suum primogenitum et pannis eum involvit et reclinavit
eum in praesepio quia non erat eis locus in diversorio. Et pastores
erant in regione eadem vigilantes et custodientes vigilias noctis
supra gregem suum. Et ecce angelus Domini stetit iuxta illos et
claritas Dei circumfulsit illos et timuerunt timore magno. Et dixit
illis angelus nolite timere ecce enim evangelizo vobis gaudium magnum
quod erit omni populo: quia natus est vobis hodie salvator qui est
Christus Dominus in civitate David. Et hoc vobis signum invenietis
infantem pannis involutum et positum in praesepio." - Evangelium
Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum secundum Luccam 2.6-12


Valete bene et feste diem natalem Christi!

Cato



SOURCES

Dionysis of Halicarnassus, The Vulgate

Salve Tribune Maiora,

> If one more tiresome Patrician wants to criticize
> the tribs, missing plebian <sic> aediles bloody well

become a

> Plebian! <sic>

Dear me. There are plenty of very capable Plebeians.

If Moravius Piscinus, Gnaeus Salvius, Marcus Arminius
& Quintus Suetonius Paulinus win as Tribunes for 2006,
the Plebeians will be in excellent hands next year.

Vale,
Diana Octavia





__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com

Salve, Flavia Lucilla Merula, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Censor, et omnes.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 01:28:55PM +0100, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
> Salve Flavia Lucilla Merula!
>
> I am no expert, but I phoned Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus who
> knows better and he suggested Open Office at
> http://www.openoffice.org/ . It is available for many operating
> systems like MS Windows and Linux. I doesn't work as well for the
> Maintosh OS (that I use) though. In that package You will find an
> Excel compatible software and it is all for free. If that doesn't
> function I have cc or Magister Aranearius, but as he is very busy,
> You might have to wait to get any suggestions from him.
>
> >On 12/24/05, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> V. The URL to the Nova Roma main list "Files" section where the file
> >> is found is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ and when
> >> one hits the link it will down load the file "domus_listing 9.xls" to
> > > ones computer.
> >
> >Yes, but unfortunately since I don't have excel my computer refuses to open
> >it :-(

Since I had a little time this morning, I've hacked up a program to
display this data for those who don't have Excel or Open Office (which
last is indeed available for the Mac - certainly for the OS/X version.)
Please take a look at http://novaroma.org/bin/domus - each nomen is a
link to that familia's listing. Do note that some records (e.g.,
Cornelia) are very long and consequently run off the right side of the
page; use your scroll bar as appropriate. :)

Caeso Fabi - whenever you want to update this, simply save the new Excel
sheet as a CSV file and ask the webmaster to upload it to the "htdocs"
directory as "domus_listing.csv". The script will process it as long as
that layout remains consistent.

Hopefully, this will make the data easily accessible to everyone.
Anyone finding errors or problems, feel free to report them to me, and
I'll fix them as time allows.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
Magister Aranearius
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Salvete,

I hope you all don't mind my liberal use of Latin(it's been 300 years
since I used it with other people). I hope all people in Nova Roma
enjoy the holidays. I also wish for them to remember that, during the
Republic as well as the Emperium, many traditions and faiths were
celebrated openly during the good times(of which there were many).

Valvate,
Appius Claudius Scipio

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Minucio Scaeuolae quiritibusque omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Flavia Lucilla Merula, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus Censor, et omnes.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 01:28:55PM +0100, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus wrote:
>> > Salve Flavia Lucilla Merula!
>> >
>> > I am no expert, but I phoned Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus who
>> > knows better and he suggested Open Office at
>> > http://www.openoffice.org/ . It is available for many operating
>> > systems like MS Windows and Linux. I doesn't work as well for the
>> > Maintosh OS (that I use) though. In that package You will find an
>> > Excel compatible software and it is all for free. If that doesn't
>> > function I have cc or Magister Aranearius, but as he is very busy,
>> > You might have to wait to get any suggestions from him.
>> >
>>> > >On 12/24/05, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...>
>>> > >wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>> > >> V. The URL to the Nova Roma main list "Files" section where the file
>>>> > >> is found is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ and when
>>>> > >> one hits the link it will down load the file "domus_listing 9.xls" to
>>>> > > > ones computer.
>>> > >
>>> > >Yes, but unfortunately since I don't have excel my computer refuses to
>>> open
>>> > >it :-(
>
> Since I had a little time this morning, I've hacked up a program to
> display this data for those who don't have Excel or Open Office (which
> last is indeed available for the Mac - certainly for the OS/X version.)
> Please take a look at http://novaroma.org/bin/domus - each nomen is a
> link to that familia's listing. Do note that some records (e.g.,
> Cornelia) are very long and consequently run off the right side of the
> page; use your scroll bar as appropriate. :)
>
> Caeso Fabi - whenever you want to update this, simply save the new Excel
> sheet as a CSV file and ask the webmaster to upload it to the "htdocs"
> directory as "domus_listing.csv". The script will process it as long as
> that layout remains consistent.
>
> Hopefully, this will make the data easily accessible to everyone.
> Anyone finding errors or problems, feel free to report them to me, and
> I'll fix them as time allows.
>
> ATS: This worked for me‹I have Excel, but for some reason it doesn¹t want
> to talk to Yahoo, and couldn¹t open the file (or anything else). Plurimas
> gratias!
>
> Happy holidays to all!
>
>
> Valete,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> Magister Aranearius
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve Claudius Scipio et Salvete Omnes:

I thank you for your warm greeting and wise words. I in turn wish
you and all citizens and/or forum list subscribers a blessed holiday
and all the best in the New Year to come.

Valete bene
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "robertpartlow" <robertpartlow@y...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> I hope you all don't mind my liberal use of Latin(it's been 300

years

> since I used it with other people). I hope all people in Nova Roma
> enjoy the holidays. I also wish for them to remember that, during

the

> Republic as well as the Emperium, many traditions and faiths were
> celebrated openly during the good times(of which there were many).
>
> Valvate,
> Appius Claudius Scipio
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "robertpartlow" <robertpartlow@y...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> I hope you all don't mind my liberal use of Latin(it's been 300 years
> since I used it with other people). I hope all people in Nova Roma
> enjoy the holidays. I also wish for them to remember that, during the
> Republic as well as the Emperium, many traditions and faiths were
> celebrated openly during the good times(of which there were many).
>
> Valvate,
> Appius Claudius Scipio
>

Robertpartlow/A.Claudius Scipio corrects: 300 should be 30(chuckle).
Been into the egg"grog" a little.
Valve
Saturnalia optima Tibi exopto!

Hortensia G. Catonis spd;
Tch, Tch, such language on the ML;-) how true I can see this
Cato is living up to his family tradition & actually chiding this
Hortensia...my, my we're repeating history!
optime vale amice, & Felix Natalis !!
Hortensia

>
> Fiddlesticks. I would remind you, O Pleb, that is the duty of the
> Patricians to be tiresome. It is among our most endearing

qualities.

> Harrrrumph.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@y...> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia G.Catonis spd;
> > utter poppycock. One message not posted in the CPT

& 'disaster'? I

> > think not, we had to get a new webmaster for voting & if not

for

> > Albucius it would be a tempest in a teapot.
> > If one more tiresome Patrician wants to criticize the tribs,
> > missing plebian aediles bloody well become a Plebian!
>

Salve, QSP!

Io Saturnalia et Merry Christmas to you too, Quintus Suetonius! I hope your holidays have been good to you as well.

Gaius Pontius Celsus


"Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
Salve Gai Ponti!

You'ze got yourself into a real heap of trouble boy! Why? Because you
is here! -:)

Io Saturnalia et Merry Christmas

QSP



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bryce Rumbles <brycerumbles@y...>
wrote:

>
> Oh my Zeus, what have I gotten myself into THIS time?
>
> Gaius Pontius Celsus, bibliothecarius
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VII Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies fastus est.

"There is another legend related by the inhabitants, to the effect
that before the reign of Jupiter Saturn was lord in this land and that
the celebrated manner of life in his reign, abounding in the produce
of every season, was enjoyed by none more than them. And, indeed, if
anyone, setting aside the fabulous part of this account, will examine
the merit of any country from which mankind received the greatest
enjoyments immediately after their birth, whether they sprang from the
earth, according to the ancient tradition, or came into being in some
other manner, he will find none more beneficent to them than this.
For, to compare one country with another of the same extent, Italy is,
in my opinion, the best country, not only of Europe, but even of all
the rest of the world. And yet I am not unaware that I shall not be
believed by many when they reflect on Egypt, Libya, Babylonia and any
other fertile countries there may be. But I, for my part, do not limit
the wealth derived from the soil to one sort of produce, nor do I feel
any eagerness to live where there are only rich arable lands and
little or nothing else that is useful; but I account that country the
best which is the most self-sufficient and generally stands least in
need of imported commodities. And I am persuaded that Italy enjoys
this universal fertility and diversity of advantages beyond any other
land.

For Italy does not, while possessing a great deal of good arable land,
lack trees, as does a grain-bearing country; nor, on the other hand,
while suitable for growing all manner of trees, does it, when sown to
grain, produce scanty crops, as does a timbered country; nor yet,
while yielding both grain and trees in abundance, is it unsuitable for
the grazing of cattle; nor can anyone say that, while it bears rich
produce of crops and timber and herds, it is nevertheless disagreeable
for men to live in. Nay, on the contrary, it abounds in practically
everything that affords either pleasure or profit. To what
grain-bearing country, indeed, watered, not with rivers, but with
rains from heaven, do the plains of Campania yield, in which I have
seen fields that produce even three crops in a year, summer's harvest
following upon that of when and autumn's upon that of summer? To what
olive orchards are those of the Messapians, the Daunians, the Sabines
and many others inferior? To what vineyards those of Tyrrhenia and the
Alban and the Falernian districts, where the soil is wonderfully kind
to vines and with the least labour produces the finest grapes in the
greatest abundance? And besides the land that is cultivated one will
find much that is left untilled as pasturage for sheep and goats, and
still more extensive and more wonderful is the land suitable for
grazing horses and cattle; for not only the marsh and meadow grass,
which is very plentiful, but the dewy and well-watered grass of the
glades, infinite in its abundance, furnish grazing for them in summer
as well as in winter and keep them always in good condition. section
4But most wonderful of all are the forests growing upon the rocky
heights, in the glens and on the uncultivated hills, from which the
inhabitants are abundantly supplied with fine timber suitable for the
building of ships as well as for all other purposes. nor are any of
these materials hard to come at or at a distance from human need, but
they are easy to handle and readily available, owing to the multitude
of rivers that flow through the whole peninsula and make the
transportation and exchange of everything the land produces
inexpensive. Springs also of hot water have been discovered in many
places, affording most pleasant baths and sovereign cures for chronic
ailments. There are also mines of all sorts, plenty of wild beasts for
hunting, and a great variety of sea fish, besides innumerable other
things, some useful and others of a nature to excite wonder. But the
finest thing of all is the climate, admirably tempered by the seasons,
so that less than elsewhere is harm done by excessive cold or
inordinate heat either to the growing fruits and grains or to the
bodies of animals." - Dionysis of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities"
1.36-37


In ancient Egypt, today was celebrated as the birthday of the god
Horus. Horus is the falcon-headed god, the son of the goddess Isis
and the god Osiris. Seth caused the death of his brother Osiris, the
first king of Egypt, and seized his throne. Isis retrieved the
fourteen pieces of her husband's body, reconstructed it, and hovered
over it in the form of a sparrowhawk, fanning enough life back into
him for her to conceive a son, Horus. She knew Seth would harm her
child, so she fled the Nile delta and gave birth to Horus at Chemmis
near Buto. With the assistance of other deities, such as the goddesses
Hathor and Selqet, Isis raised Horus until he was old enough to
challenge Seth and claim his royal inheritance.

Amun-Re, the sun god, invited Horus and Seth to put their cases before
the Ennead, a tribunal of the gods. Seth declared that he should be
king because only he was strong enough to defend the sun during its
nightly voyage through the underworld. Some deities accepted this
argument, but Isis persuaded them to change their minds. Seth refused
to proceed with Isis there, so he adjourned the tribunal to an island
to which Isis was refused access. However, the goddess bribed Nemty,
ferryman of the gods, to take her across. Then she tricked Seth into
agreeing that it was wrong for a son to have his inheritance stolen.
Seth complained about her trickery and the gods punished Nemty by
cutting off his toes. Further confrontations between Horus and Seth
proved inconclusive, and in some writings their battle continues for
all eternity; the more common ending is that the gods wrote to Osiris,
who threatened to send demons to the realm of the gods if Horus was
not made king of Egypt at once. Not surprisingly, the gods chose
Horus' side.

Horus has many names, and the Pharoah was considered to be the living
embodiment of the god. Horus' right eye is the Sun and his left eye
is the Moon, and depictions of his eye, the Wedjat, are among the most
common and recognizable symbols of all ancient Egypt. In the course
of his battle with Seth, his left eye, the Moon, was injured; Thoth,
the god of writing, magic, and wisdom, re-assembled the Moon, and its
destruction and re-building is mirrored in the phases of the Moon.
The name Horus comes from the Egyptian word Hor, which translates as
"face". We find him worshipped as Mekhenti-irry which translates as
"He who has on his brow Two Eyes", the sun and moon representing his
eyes. On nights when there is no moon we find him worshipped as
Mekhenti-en-irty, "He who on his brow has no eyes", in this form he
was considered the god of the blind.

As Horus Behudety, Horus represents the midday sun, and is symbolized
by the winged sun disc. As Harmakhet, Horus represents the rising
Sun, and is represented by the human- or ram-headed lion, the Sphinx.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Dionysis of Halicarnassus, Horus
(http://towerwebproductions.com/alt-lib/myth/eyeofhorus.shtml) and
(http://www.littleegypt.com/horus.html) and
(http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/horus.htm)

Salve Claude Amice:

Well, I read your text originally, and I thought...'awesome... this
guy is either very, very old'... *or* he made a typo' :). So, I
elected to error on the side of caution, possibly out of a need to
respect my elders, and say nothing, except of course to wish you a
good holiday:)


Egg 'grog' eh?? May we pick that up at a 7-11 or Mac's Milk
store? :) I generally opt for Becker's. Great stuff.

Cheers!
Po


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "robertpartlow" <robertpartlow@y...>
wrote:

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "robertpartlow"

<robertpartlow@y...>

> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > I hope you all don't mind my liberal use of Latin(it's been 300

years

> > since I used it with other people). I hope all people in Nova

Roma

> > enjoy the holidays. I also wish for them to remember that,

during the

> > Republic as well as the Emperium, many traditions and faiths

were

> > celebrated openly during the good times(of which there were

many).

> >
> > Valvate,
> > Appius Claudius Scipio
> >
> Robertpartlow/A.Claudius Scipio corrects: 300 should be 30

(chuckle).

> Been into the egg"grog" a little.
> Valve
> Saturnalia optima Tibi exopto!
>

Salvete omnes,

I have to hit the road today and head up to Northern British Columbia
for my winter drilling projects. I'll have high speed internet on my
locations as usual but it takes me 2 days to get there.

All the best for the season and I'll catch you in a few days!


Regards,

QSP

Salvete Omnes,
I wish you happy holydays to you all, Merry Christmas and an Happy new
year.
I hope you'll have happy and relaxing celebrating days with your
family and friends.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Consul

Cato is right. It is the duty of Patricians to be hidebound, conservative,
and generally irksome. It is the duty of the Plebs to try to ignore them and
when necessary get the Tribunes to pronounce an intercessio against one of
their magistrates. On the whole, the Tribunes and the Plebeian Aediles should
remember that we Plebs can usually get along pretty well and that they only
really need pay attention to the shenanigans of the Patricians. This is why the
records of the Senate are kept in the Temple of Ceres to prevent any annoying
attempts by the Patricians to make changes in the records.

F. Galerius Aurelianus
flamen Cerealis

P.S. I don't mean you, Modianus, as you were born a Pleb and are a Patrician
by adoption.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus omnibus S.P.D.

I have a prickly little question: several of the laws I have been
correcting require the votes to be tallied within 48 hours of the conclusion
of the voting period, and reported by the presiding magistrate within a set
period thereafter; the most recent I have corrected has listed 24 hours as
that period. We are now past both 48 hours after the polls closed and 24
hours beyond that--and both occurred by Saturday afternoon, my time.

While it doesn't make much difference to me as I am going to be working
in the censor's office whether or not I am elected to perform duties similar
to those I have been performing for some time, some of the other candidates
might like to know whether or not they have been elected--and the citizenry
might like to know who their magistrates will be, for the terms expire in
less than a week.

Have the diribitores captured and counted the votes? If so, have they
reported them to the presiding magistrate? Yes, this is a busy time when
many people are away, but it's no secret that the main election often
conflicts with this period; two years ago, the election results were
reported late on December 24th or early on December 25th. M. Octavius
Germanicus had indicated that he was working with the diribitores to count
the votes; we, the citizenry, hope that all concerned have completed this
complicated procedure and will soon let us know the results.

If perchance the notices may have arrived at the Yahoo site, but, like
far too many messages, haven't reached my mailbox, please excuse this
intrusion. Back to the Tabularium...

Optime ualete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

Q. Metellus A. Tulliae Quiritibusque sal.

The short answer is, simply, that we're working on it. The extended
answer, though, is that the conjunction of the Leges Fabia de Ratione as
well as the Lex Equitia de Vigintisexviris makes things take much longer
than, by law, they should. But let me demonstrate why.

Let's say that there are three candidates running for an office
(Candidates A, B, and C). By law, we have to rank each candidate for
each tribe or century as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (and so on through all
candidates). If in counting these, there are ties for these places, the
ties would need to be broke to be able to rank, then finally count,
these. The diribitores are, by the Lex Equitia, forbidden to break
ties, so the results must be passed on to the Custodes to break the
ties. Then, we have two options: either we can leave it the burden of
the Custodes to continue the count from here (ranking, counting, and
breaking the final ties of the candidates, then reporting to the
presiding magistrate), or we can send the first set of broken ties back
to the Diribitores to make a final count, and ending with final ties.
Since the job of the Custodes is only to verify the count, break ties,
and report the results to the presiding magistrate, it would be sensible
that the results would be passed back to the Diribitores to continue the
count; then, these results would be passed back to the Custodes to
verify, break ties, and report to the presiding magistrate. This is
essentially where things have gotten so slow in this election (never
mind the inundation of votes in this election). Similarly, the Fabian
laws give 48 hours for the Rogatores to pass the results on to the
presiding magistrate. Since we are now using Diribitores and Custodes,
either each has 24 hours to do their job, or a time extention needs to
be added here.

Rest assured, though, I will be petitioning for some change for next
year, either in the form of a time extention or a change to allow the
Diribitores to break the first round of ties, to allow things to move
faster.

I hope this, at least partially, explains things.

Valete Bene,

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Diribitor

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"It is no wonder, therefore, that the ancients looked upon this
country as sacred to Saturn, since they esteemed this god to be the
giver and accomplisher of all happiness to mankind,— whether he ought
to be called Cronus, as the Greeks deem fitting, or Saturn, as do the
Romans, — and regarded him as embracing the whole universe, by
whichever name he is called, and since they saw this country abounding
in universal plenty and every charm mankind craves, and judged those
places to be most agreeable both to divine and to human beings that
are suited to them — for example, the mountains and woods to Pan, the
meadows and verdant places to the nymphs, the shores and islands to
the sea-gods, and all there places to the god or genius to whom each
is appropriate. It is said also that the ancients sacrificed human
victims to Saturn, as was done at Carthage while that city stood and
as is there is done to this day among the Gauls and certain other
western nations, and that Hercules, desiring to abolish the custom of
this sacrifice, erected the altar upon the Saturnian hill and
performed the initial rites of sacrifice with unblemished victims
burning on a pure fire. And lest the people should feel any scruple at
having neglected their traditional sacrifices, he taught them to
appease the anger of the god by making effigies resembling the men
they had been wont to bind hand and foot and throw into the stream of
the Tiber, and dressing these in the same manner, to throw them into
the river instead of the men, his purpose being that any superstitious
dread remaining in the minds of all might be removed, since the
semblance of the ancient rite would still be preserved. This the
Romans continued to do every year even down to my day a little after
the vernal equinox, in the month of May, on what they call the Ides
(the day they mean to be the middle of the month); on this day, after
offering the preliminary sacrifices according to the laws, the
pontifices, as the most important of the priests are called, and with
them the virgins who guard the perpetual fire, the praetors, and such
of the other citizens as may lawfully be present at the rites, throw
from the sacred bridge into the stream of the Tiber thirty effigies
made in the likeness of men, which they call Argei. But concerning
the sacrifices and the other rites which the Roman people perform
according to the manner both of the Greeks and of their own country I
shall speak in another book. At present, it seems requisite to give a
more particular account of the arrival of Hercules in Italy and to
omit nothing worthy of notice that he did there.

Of the stories told concerning this god some are largely legend and
some are nearer the truth. The legendary account of his arrival is as
follows: Hercules, being commanded by Eurystheus, among other labours,
to drive Geryon's cattle from Erytheia to Argos, performed the task
and having passed through many parts of Italy on his way home, came
also to the neighbourhood of Pallantium in the country of the
Aborigines; and there, finding much excellent grass for his cattle, he
let them graze, and being overcome with weariness, lay down and gave
himself over to sleep. Thereupon a robber of that region, named Cacus,
chanced to come upon the cattle feeding with none to guard them and
longed to possess them. But seeing Hercules lying there asleep, he
imagined he could not drive them all away without being discovered and
at the same time he perceived that the task was no easy one, either.
So he secreted a few of them in the cave hard by, in which he lived,
dragging each of them thither by the tail backwards. This might have
destroyed all evidence of his theft, as the direction in which the
oxen had gone would be at variance with their tracks. Hercules, then,
arising from sleep soon afterwards, and having counted the cattle and
found some were missing, was for some time at a loss to guess where
they had gone, and supposing them to have strayed from their pasture,
he sought them up and down the region; then, when he failed to find
them, he came to the cave, and though he was deceived by the tracks,
he felt, nevertheless, that he ought to search the place. But Cacus
stood before the door, and when Hercules inquired after the cattle,
denied that he had seen them, and when the other desired to search his
cave, would not suffer him to do so, to be called upon his neighbours
for assistance, complaining of the violence offered to him by the
stranger. And while Hercules was puzzled to know how he should act in
the matter, he hit upon the expedient of driving the rest of the
cattle to the cave. And thus, when those inside heard the lowing and
perceived the smell of their companions outside, they bellowed to them
in turn and thus their lowing betrayed the theft. Cacus, therefore,
when his thievery was thus brought to light, put himself upon his
defence and began to call out to his fellow herdsmen. But Hercules
killed him by smiting him with his club and drove out the cattle; and
when he saw that the place was well adapted to the harbouring of
evil-doers, he demolished the cave, burying the robber under its
ruins. Then, having purified himself in the river from the murder, he
erected an altar near the place to Jupiter the Discoverer, which is
now in Rome near the Porta Trigemina, and sacrificed a calf to the god
as a thank-offering for the finding of his cattle. This sacrifice the
city of Rome continued to celebrate even down to my day, observing in
it all the ceremonies of the Greeks just as he instituted them." -
Dionysis of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities", 1.38-39


"After having been twice driven back by heavy southwestern gales, Her
Majesty's ship Beagle, a ten-gun brig, under the command of Captain
Fitz Roy, R. N., sailed from Devonport on the 27th of December, 1831.
The object of the expedition was to complete the survey of Patagonia
and Tierra del Fuego, commenced under Captain King in 1826 to 1830, --
to survey the shores of Chile, Peru, and of some islands in the
Pacific—and to carry a chain of chronometrical measurements round the
World." - Charles Darwin, "The Voyage of the Beagle", which set sail
on 27 December 1831


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Dionysis of Halicarnassus, Darwin
(http://www2.lucidcafe.com/lucidcafe/library/96feb/darwin.html)

C. Equitius Cato F. Galerio Aureliano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

A very astute perspective on the relations between the Plebs and the
Patricians. The Patricians, having been either legislatively
manoeuvred or simply robbed outright of so many of their historic
rights and powers over the centuries, struggle to maintain and, if
possible, expand their prerogatives, and will often attempt to support
their expansionist aims by appealing to the very masses by whom their
powers were taken --- and will *always* attempt to do so by keeping
the Plebeian magistrates squabbling amongst themselves and thus far
less vigilant against the Patricians' attempts to increase their power.

I mean, that's the historic background. It certainly doesn't apply to
our Republic, as the differences between the Plebs and Patricians are
basically nominal.

Vale et valete,

Cato

A. Apollonius Q. Metello omnibusque sal.

I'm glad to hear you and your colleagues have
identified the problems and are intending to put
forward some suggestions to prevent them recurring.
It's a hard job, and even without the two-layer
heirarchy we had a couple of close calls last year,
and even one occasion when we missed the deadline by a
few hours. At the risk of sounding uncharitable,
though, I would like to draw your and your colleagues'
attention to the fact that this happened in the summer
as well.

At that time I wondered whether the system introduced
by the lex Equitia might be slowing things down and -
you may remember - I encouraged you all to look at
what had gone wrong and see whether the problems of
the summer had been caused by systemic problems like
the ones you're now talking about. My hope was that
those problems could be identified and solved before
the big electoral and legislative sessions of the
autumn. But at that time the populus was assured that
the problem was a one-off and no changes to the system
were needed.

I don't remind you of this to criticise, but rather to
show all magistrates, present and future, who have
technical jobs like vote-counting or running the
website that if they find their jobs being made
difficult by unintended consequences of legislation
they should not hesitate to speak up and ask for
changes.

Finally, speaking of changes, I suspect that if this
year is anything like last year you're getting a lot
of ties in tribes and particularly in centuries which
contain only two voters. Last year we came to the
conclusion that it would be helpful to reduce the
number of centuries from the current 51 to a number
closer to 25, thus increasing the average size of
centuries and reducing the likelihood of ties
occurring. I mention this for consideration in the
package of changes you intend to suggest. Of course in
the long run the solution to the large number of ties
is to increase the number of voters.

Many thanks to you and your colleagues for all your
hard work.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

At what times did Rome have Mesopotamia and who were the Emperors over
it? I really need to get some better maps of all the eras. Any help
appreciated.

> Have the diribitores captured and counted the votes?

No; the effort is in progress, but it's a Herculean task, and the
election was cleverly timed to fall at the worst possible time for
people to have enough free time to do this. We've currently counted
the Comitia Centuriata, and reconciled the discrepancies between our
vote counts; the results are in the hands of the Custodes for
tie-breaking, and then the results will be reported.

One Diribitor has completed a count of the Comitia Populi Tributa.
Another is 2/3 of the way through, one has resigned, and the fourth is
unavailable for this vote. We'll need to reconcile the differences in
that much more complex count, and from early indications, there are a
*lot* of ties to resolve.

After that, the Comitia Plebis Tributa. I hope we're done by the turn
of the year....

Bottom line: for the December magistrate elections, 48 hours is not
remotely close to the amount of time that it takes to accurately count
the plethora of votes, especially if magistrates have crammed in a
sizeable legislative program on top of the magistrate elections. A
better solution would be to automate the office of Diribitor out of
existence, set everything up with a Ruby script on the web site, and
let the Custodes just audit the audit trail. That won't happen for
this election.

Claudia Iulia
Diribitrix

> A better solution would be to automate the office of Diribitor out of
> existence, set everything up with a Ruby script on the web site, and
> let the Custodes just audit the audit trail. That won't happen for
> this election.

That's what we had, once (but in Perl of course); in '01 and '02 the
counting was automated, and the results delivered within hours of
the election's closing.

Unfortunately, in almost every year since then, the Consules and Tribunes
have changed the rules (particularly with regard to resolving ties and
choosing overall winners). Almost all of these changes were done
without consulting the webmaster and rogatores to find out how
difficult they would be to implement.

A few of these changes were incorporated in the script - but the next
year would just bring another set of revisions, and then another -
it became too frustrating to have to keep rewriting the thing based
on each consul's whims, so I stopped.

Vale, O.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

Cn. Lentulus quaestor candidatus: Pompeiae Straboni consuli candidatae: sal.:

>>> I saw your website....you look so Roman, amice. <<<

Thank you very much, amica! My toga is my pride :-) It takes half an hour at least to drap it.

>>> But I hope Santa will bring you some caligae to compliment your well draped toga! <<<

Unfortunately, Christas is gone but Santa did not bring me any caligae :-(
Pehraps next year...? ;-)
By the way, this picture was made at my home where there is an excellent floor-heating, by the good Roman tradition in the northern provinces like my Pannonia :-)
What is the caliga here for???

Vale!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
QUAESTOR CANDIDATUS
www.cnlentulus.iweb.hu
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Fr. Apuli Caesaris
Scriba Aedilis Curulis L. Iulii Sullae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae Senior
Scriba Magistri Araneari C. Minuci Scaevolae Iunior
Sodalis Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Latinista, Classicus Philologus



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