M. Hortensia Q. Fabio Maximo spd;
well we have NR cultores in Dacia, what are we doing to help them?
I was the only one who bothered and wrote to Iulia Caesaris & helped
her join with the Italian and Greek polytheists, but the fact that
the Religio in NR isn't incorporated is pretty embarassing. We should
do this; why hasn't it been done?
vale
M. Hortensia Maior, aedilis plebis

>
>
> This is amazing news. But now it has to get by the magistrates

court, if

> there was an appeal
> filed. Still, perhaps there are greater stirrings among the

immortals as

> their recognition grows.
>
> Q Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old gods, new
gods, waxed fruit or anything else. If this is an example of an enlightened
European Judiciary, I guess I prefer being a bit dim.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius

On 3/26/06, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> I read over at SaturniaTellus, the forum for the Italian MTR & it
> was also posted over at RogueClassicism that a lower court in Greece
> approved the formation of an association to worship the Greek gods. I
> hope this leads to official recognition as a religion under the
> European Union, the same for our fellow cultores in Italy.
> It's been a real struggle for the Greek polytheists & they've
> been fighting for their rights. In many European countries there are
> state churches. I hope we all support them; their org is YSEE, the
> Council for Ethnic Hellenes google will give you the website. I
> valete
> M. Hortensia Maior, aedilis plebis
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Caecilius Metellus Fetialis et Pontifex Quiritibus salutem.

Salvete,

I was particularly happy to see the responses which I received to the
original question I proposed here about a week ago. As promised, I'd
like to take a moment now to respond to those, now that I have your
attention.

One respondant asked for more information on the website, and suggested
that I write an article. This, I think, is a great idea, and something
I would recommend to all of my fellow pontiffs. A while ago, though in
private chambers, I had asked for members of our priesthood to assist me
in writing a series of articles on the Gods, something of an
introduction to Them, if you will. I have chosen to write one on Janus,
and will probably write a few more as well. On the ReligioRomana list
in particular, there have been a number of requests along the lines of
"To which god ought I pray for 'x'". I think that by compiling articles
on the Gods and publishing them, we can improve the knowledge of the
Gods among ourselves and among people whom use our website as a point of
reference for items on the Sacra Romana.

Since the calendar seems to be my particular area of speciality, I will
also be writing quite a few articles on that topic (if entire volumes
can be written on it, certainly articles can too!), as well as articles
on the various observances throughout the year. The latter part of this
you can expect to see in my quarterly report under the "Roman Book of
Days"; what I mentioned in the previous paragraph will also be there,
under the "Roman Book of Gods".

There was also mention that people want to know about Roman beliefs on
death, funerary rites, and I would add to this the Afterlife. There are
quite a few books on this as well. I perhaps may not be the best person
to write articles on these things, though I am certainly willing to do so.

While I think of it, though, another good idea is to begin compiling a
"directory" of books on the Sacra, and organising them into topics. If
anyone is willing to help organise this one, let me know, and I will
certainly do what I can to help, as this too is something that shoud go
on the website.

There were also responses that called for some video footage of Roman
rites being performed, as well as a request for perhaps audio files of
prayers. In application to the Sacra Domestica, I have already stated
my views on that. However, I would certainly support this for the Sacra
Publica, though, of course, this has a slight dependance on having
multiple people present. I certainly would like, though, to see this
happen, when it is feasible. I will surely do what I can with this one.

On my wider question of expectations from the Collegium Pontificum on
the whole, there was an overwhelming clamour for leadership and
coordination. It should not be a surprise to anyone who was reading
these fora right around the time of my co-optation that I fully agree
with this. This very thing, in fact, was among the major contributors
to my pursuit of the pontificate. I can say that, for my own part, I
have tried, and will continue to try, to work with my fellow pontiffs
for progress. Of course, there is still a lot of research to be done,
but I know that some, if not all, of the pontiffs are working on things:
researching, finding ways to implement their findings, and, in the end,
bringing about progress. I can safely say that much of the material
which I have found to be available to me is not available to many of my
colleagues. The Classics Library of the University of Cincinnati has a
very unique collection of 18th and 19th-century dissertations, almost
all of which are not to be found in other libraries, and which are not
available to patrons outside the University. (Incidentally, if anyone
happens to need a dissertation which only this university has, let me
know and I will be more than happy to find a way to get a copy to you!
The full catalog is at http://uclid.uc.edu/screens/opacmenu.html.)

In response to this, though, I do have to ask one question. In exactly
what ways do you want leadership from the Collegium? Surely each
pontifex knows what he wants to see from the Collegium, but knowing what
the People want from the Collegium is something different altogether
(hence why I keep asking these open questions). I hate to seem
overly-demanding, but unfortunately, the only way we will know what you,
the People, want, is by your telling us.

In the end, I was happy to receive the responses. I must say, though,
that I was slightly disenheartened by the small number of responses I
gathered, though I certainly will not let that slow me down at all.
But, I hope that, as time goes on, we will be able to breathe life back
into the Sacra Publica and the Sacra Domestica. The fact that we are
all here is a great start for that, and something for pride among all of
us. So we must now continue the process.

Lastly, I know that among many there is a fear of the Collegium
Pontificum. I can not, of course, speak for my fellow pontiffs, but for
myself, I hope that no one fears me. I am not here to use my position
as a political tool. That is simply not my job. I am here for two
reasons, and those alone: to serve the Gods, and to serve the People.
Please, do not hesitate to ask a question, either in public or in
private. It is our duty, as pontiffs, to serve, to educate, and to
guide. My personal opinion is that this fear is hindering both sides of
the equation. It hinders the Collegium because the People fear asking
questions and telling the Collegium what they want. It hinders the
People because the Collegium likely will not (and, in fact, can not) act
without knowing what the People want, what the People do not know, and
how to guide the People properly. I hope that, now and in the future,
we can all work together. We can only become better if we work together.

Iane, Iuppiter, Mars, et Quirine,
Ceres, Vesta, Iuno, et Minerva,
Nos Di Omnes Vos Protegatis,
Liberos Vestros, qui Romani.

In a message dated 3/26/2006 9:22:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:

well we have NR cultores in Dacia, what are we doing to help them?
I was the only one who bothered and wrote to Iulia Caesaris & helped
her join with the Italian and Greek polytheists, but the fact that
the Religio in NR isn't incorporated is pretty embarassing


Wouldn't that be Caesaria? As for incorporating, our Pontifix Maximus has
been working on that for sometime now. When the papers are complete I'm sure
there will be an announcement.
But I don't feel being slow is embarrassing. I'm believe it just means one
is being careful and thorough .

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit

To say he is working on it is probably not necessarily true. It was
mentioned in the Collegium Pontificum several years ago, but never
actually voted on or followed up on. Since incorporation is something
that affects the total incorporation of Nova Roma it is something that
should probably be reviewed by the senate, and then if approved
maintained by the Collegium Pontificum.

However, I am fairly confident that nothing has been done regarding
the incorporation of Nova Roma as a religious organization. I would
be happy to present this to the senate in the next session, it is part
of my platform of promoting the Religio and I think it is something
that should be done. We ARE a religious organization, among other
things - its time we invest the necessary time and energy to show our
citizens that this IS a priority. I'll do my part.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 3/27/06, QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/26/2006 9:22:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> rory12001@... writes:
>
> well we have NR cultores in Dacia, what are we doing to help them?
> I was the only one who bothered and wrote to Iulia Caesaris & helped
> her join with the Italian and Greek polytheists, but the fact that
> the Religio in NR isn't incorporated is pretty embarassing
>
>
> Wouldn't that be Caesaria? As for incorporating, our Pontifix Maximus has
> been working on that for sometime now. When the papers are complete I'm sure
> there will be an announcement.
> But I don't feel being slow is embarrassing. I'm believe it just means one
> is being careful and thorough .
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Salve Antoni,

P. Dominus Antonius wrote:

> Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old gods,

Because Greece has an official state religion. Many countries do.

Vale,

-- Marinus

CN·SALVIVS·ASTVR·CONCIVIBVS·S·P·D

One very brief comment, if you please:

P. Dominus Antonius wrote:

> > Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old gods,

To which Cn. Equitius Marinus replied:

> Because Greece has an official state religion. Many countries do.

Many countries do have an official state religion, but the Hellenic
Democracy (Greece) is not one of them. The Greek constitution
guarantees freedom of religion. That is the case in all the member
states of the European Union.

What is true, however, is that the Greek constitution recognises that
the Greek Orthodox Church has a special importance in Greece, being
the church to which over a 95% of the population are affiliated in
some way. And what the Greek constitution does not say is that the
Greek Orthodox Church is a major opinion maker among public opinion in
Greece.

What does this piece of news mean, then? It means that a Greek
polytheistic organization has been given official status by the Greek
government. It is now being legally recognised as a "church". But it
doesn't mean that the practice of polytheist rituals were illegal
prior to this recognition.

S·V·B·E·E·V

CN·SALVIVS·T·F·A·NEP·OVF·ASTVR·SCRIPSIT

Salvete Antoni et Marine!

This quite intrigues me as does the idea of "incorporating" a religion. Also bizarre sounding to a British pagan is the idea of Pagan "churches". This is a term I notice that Americans and Canadians sometimes use but never, to my knowledge, us Europeans to whom it has rather unpleasant connotations.

In Britain we have an official state religion - which is generally ignored by the overwhelming majority of the population except when they get married - and until 1950 the practice of Pagan religions was more or less illegal. Although now we are generally free to follow whatever religion we choose I've never come across the idea of somehow making our religion(s) more "official". By and large I think I'd rather keep my faith as far away from the Government as possible!

Having said this I do appreciate that the Hellenes have faced particular problems with the Orthodox church. Hopefully this latest decision will provide them with a greater level of protection in the face of hostility.

Valete

Caius Moravius Brutus







Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
Salve Antoni,

P. Dominus Antonius wrote:

> Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old gods,

Because Greece has an official state religion. Many countries do.

Vale,

-- Marinus


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





CAIUS MORAVIUS BRUTUS

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now
---------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

> Salve Antoni,
>
> P. Dominus Antonius wrote:
>
>> Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old gods,
>
> Because Greece has an official state religion. Many countries do.

In addition, a number of countries grant special privileges (with regard
to taxation, for instance) to religious organizations, and don't want to
simply hand them out to any group that calls itself religious (as seems to
be done in the United States and Great Britain).

-- Publius Livius Triarius

OSD C. equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Kalendas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"Finally, the Roman festival closed on the twenty-seventh of March
with a procession to the brook Almo. The silver image of the goddess,
with its face of jagged black stone, sat in a wagon drawn by oxen.
Preceded by the nobles walking barefoot, it moved slowly, to the loud
music of pipes and tambourines, out by the Porta Capena, and so down
to the banks of the Almo, which flows into the Tiber just below the
walls of Rome. There the high-priest, robed in purple, washed the
wagon, the image, and the other sacred objects in the water of the
stream. On returning from their bath, the wain and the oxen were
strewn with fresh spring flowers. All was mirth and gaiety. No one
thought of the blood that had flowed so lately. Even the eunuch
priests forgot their wounds." - Sir James Frazer, The Golden Bough
(1922) p. 351

"When I was a young man I used to go to Â… spectacles put on in honour
of gods and goddesses – in honour of the Heavenly Virgin, and of
Berecynthia [a title of Cybele], mother of all. On the yearly festival
of Berecynthia's washing, actors sang in front of her litter Â… they
performed in the presence of the Mother of the Gods before an immense
audience of spectators of both sexes...And the name of the ceremony is
`the fercula', which might suggest the giving of a dinner-party." -
St. Augustine of Hippo, City of God 11.4

The coming of the Magna Mater to Rome and the west was under the most
dramatic circumstances. It was in the year 204 B.C.; Hannibal was
still in Italy and Rome was thoroughly exhausted. Moreover, the people
had become frightened because of frequent showers of stones and other
unusual phenomena. In desperation the Sibylline Books were consulted,
and it was learned that the enemy could be conquered if the Idaean
Mother should be brought from Pessinus to Rome. Accordingly, a
delegation was sent to King Attalus of Pergamum, who conducted them to
Pessinus and gave them the sacred stone which was the Mother of the
Gods. On her arrival in Italy, the goddess was officially welcomed by
the "best man" of the Republic and the leading matrons of Rome.
Miracles attended the event, the citizens made holiday, and an annual
festival was instituted in honor of the goddess. As a result--so it
seemed--the crops of that year were successful and Hannibal was driven
out of Italy and conquered. So the Magna Mater came in triumph to the
west in 204 B.C.

Today is the celebration of the Lavatio, or washing. On this day the
Romans would perform the ceremonial rites that we know today as spring
cleaning. An annual procession would take place through the streets of
Rome in honor of the Mother of the Gods. The carriage in which her
silver image was carried was washed in the waters of the river Almo.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Magna Mater (http://www.earth-history.com/Europe/Pagan/will-05.htm)

Salve Quinte Caecili Metelle!
Thank you for this response and also for the time and thought you have obviously given it. May I wish you every success with all of your ongoing projects!!!

You ask about leadership from the CP. For my part I do not mean to say that leadership is lacking at present, merely that it could perhaps take a different form in future. The political structure of NR is just that - ‘political’. I have no particular problem with this and I certainly wouldn’t want to hound non-cultores out of office but by the same token I wouldn’t turn to them for spiritual guidance. I also don’t for one moment think that they would expect me to.

The CP (and I would include the Flamens here) is rather different and has a distinctly religious role both to carry out the rites of the public religion and also to guide and educate followers of the Religio. I feel that it is probably in the latter field that things could change for the better. I would certainly welcome the new articles that you speak of. I would also be fascinated to hear the views of the various Pontifices on any matters concerned with the Religio, hopefully in a form that will not lead to bloodshed (either real or symbolic!!!) on the forum.

As Romans we have a wealth of literature to draw from and within NR we have citizens with an extraordinary breadth of knowledge. What is not so apparent sometimes is what drives us to the worship of the Gods? What is our motivation? What do we hope to achieve? Why do we worship the Gods we do?

I do not hold to the idea that the Romans were unimaginative, excessively pragmatic and unspiritual. Nova Romans certainly arenÂ’t. The Religio is to me a deeply spiritual path which I chose to follow because it answers the"big questions" and provides me with a profound link to Nature and the Divine. As you know IÂ’ve recently been helping with putting together the Annales Maximi. It has been fascinating peering into the soul of NR if not always a pretty sight! What has impressed me though is the work that certain of the Pontifices have done both in actually carrying out the various rites and also in constructing them in forms pleasing to the Gods. It would surely be good if we could share the wisdom and experience, both practical and spiritual, that has been gained.

Finally the matter of fear! Most Pagans in my experience are understandably worried about issues of religious authority. The question is - should we be? Trust is a funny thing. In the flesh you can meet someone shake their hand and know instinctively that you can trust them. On-line things are more difficult and we judge people primarily by their words, and some of the Pontifices and Flamens are rather quiet. I do recognise that the fora are not for everyone. The mainlist certainly drove me into inactivity for a long spell and the Religio Romana list is doing my head in at the moment for other reasons (all my posts get sent back unapproved!). What we need to do is to make sure that people do not just retreat into their shells and also that people just finding the Religio are not driven away by either hostility or indifference.

SoÂ…postive action, communication, new articles and a collective sense of purpose.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus


"Q. Caecilius Metellus" <metellus@...> wrote: Q. Caecilius Metellus Fetialis et Pontifex Quiritibus salutem.

Salvete,

I was particularly happy to see the responses which I received to the
original question I proposed here about a week ago. As promised, I'd
like to take a moment now to respond to those, now that I have your
attention.

One respondant asked for more information on the website, and suggested
that I write an article. This, I think, is a great idea, and something
I would recommend to all of my fellow pontiffs. A while ago, though in
private chambers, I had asked for members of our priesthood to assist me
in writing a series of articles on the Gods, something of an
introduction to Them, if you will. I have chosen to write one on Janus,
and will probably write a few more as well. On the ReligioRomana list
in particular, there have been a number of requests along the lines of
"To which god ought I pray for 'x'". I think that by compiling articles
on the Gods and publishing them, we can improve the knowledge of the
Gods among ourselves and among people whom use our website as a point of
reference for items on the Sacra Romana.

Since the calendar seems to be my particular area of speciality, I will
also be writing quite a few articles on that topic (if entire volumes
can be written on it, certainly articles can too!), as well as articles
on the various observances throughout the year. The latter part of this
you can expect to see in my quarterly report under the "Roman Book of
Days"; what I mentioned in the previous paragraph will also be there,
under the "Roman Book of Gods".

There was also mention that people want to know about Roman beliefs on
death, funerary rites, and I would add to this the Afterlife. There are
quite a few books on this as well. I perhaps may not be the best person
to write articles on these things, though I am certainly willing to do so.

While I think of it, though, another good idea is to begin compiling a
"directory" of books on the Sacra, and organising them into topics. If
anyone is willing to help organise this one, let me know, and I will
certainly do what I can to help, as this too is something that shoud go
on the website.

There were also responses that called for some video footage of Roman
rites being performed, as well as a request for perhaps audio files of
prayers. In application to the Sacra Domestica, I have already stated
my views on that. However, I would certainly support this for the Sacra
Publica, though, of course, this has a slight dependance on having
multiple people present. I certainly would like, though, to see this
happen, when it is feasible. I will surely do what I can with this one.

On my wider question of expectations from the Collegium Pontificum on
the whole, there was an overwhelming clamour for leadership and
coordination. It should not be a surprise to anyone who was reading
these fora right around the time of my co-optation that I fully agree
with this. This very thing, in fact, was among the major contributors
to my pursuit of the pontificate. I can say that, for my own part, I
have tried, and will continue to try, to work with my fellow pontiffs
for progress. Of course, there is still a lot of research to be done,
but I know that some, if not all, of the pontiffs are working on things:
researching, finding ways to implement their findings, and, in the end,
bringing about progress. I can safely say that much of the material
which I have found to be available to me is not available to many of my
colleagues. The Classics Library of the University of Cincinnati has a
very unique collection of 18th and 19th-century dissertations, almost
all of which are not to be found in other libraries, and which are not
available to patrons outside the University. (Incidentally, if anyone
happens to need a dissertation which only this university has, let me
know and I will be more than happy to find a way to get a copy to you!
The full catalog is at http://uclid.uc.edu/screens/opacmenu.html.)

In response to this, though, I do have to ask one question. In exactly
what ways do you want leadership from the Collegium? Surely each
pontifex knows what he wants to see from the Collegium, but knowing what
the People want from the Collegium is something different altogether
(hence why I keep asking these open questions). I hate to seem
overly-demanding, but unfortunately, the only way we will know what you,
the People, want, is by your telling us.

In the end, I was happy to receive the responses. I must say, though,
that I was slightly disenheartened by the small number of responses I
gathered, though I certainly will not let that slow me down at all.
But, I hope that, as time goes on, we will be able to breathe life back
into the Sacra Publica and the Sacra Domestica. The fact that we are
all here is a great start for that, and something for pride among all of
us. So we must now continue the process.

Lastly, I know that among many there is a fear of the Collegium
Pontificum. I can not, of course, speak for my fellow pontiffs, but for
myself, I hope that no one fears me. I am not here to use my position
as a political tool. That is simply not my job. I am here for two
reasons, and those alone: to serve the Gods, and to serve the People.
Please, do not hesitate to ask a question, either in public or in
private. It is our duty, as pontiffs, to serve, to educate, and to
guide. My personal opinion is that this fear is hindering both sides of
the equation. It hinders the Collegium because the People fear asking
questions and telling the Collegium what they want. It hinders the
People because the Collegium likely will not (and, in fact, can not) act
without knowing what the People want, what the People do not know, and
how to guide the People properly. I hope that, now and in the future,
we can all work together. We can only become better if we work together.

Iane, Iuppiter, Mars, et Quirine,
Ceres, Vesta, Iuno, et Minerva,
Nos Di Omnes Vos Protegatis,
Liberos Vestros, qui Romani.




---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





CAIUS MORAVIUS BRUTUS

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now
---------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Remember that Rome always had a state religion be it Pagan or
Christianity. Nova Roma has a 'state religion'.

The main point is not having a state religion, which often serves
historic or cultural purposes. But having a decent view and respect
for the beliefs of others, organised or not. You can be a born
again christian, devout Catholic, muslim, wicca or belive that the
hedgehog is the gods messengers on earth; it make no difference to
me as long as you respect me and the general rules of society.

Pagan prosecution is plain wrong any way you slice it - and
yes 'right' and 'wrong' are real ideals no matter what your religion
is or even if you are athestist. Decent fair minded people can
agree on certain standards.

So good for the Helennes, may they enjoy their newly recovered
freedom in their ancient realm...

Vale bene,
Cato 2

Salve Iulius,

> Because three years ago you had good results with the Alburnus Maior campaign, maybe a publican
> post is available.

Oh, I have a horrible memory, but this sounds familiar. Was this the campaign to save a sacred site
in Italy where I put a link on a few of my websites? I think I heard about it from Serapio in
2002/2755?

<< ... You know how my driver Latina Harmonia is these

>< days-- she's going to insist on new clothes and a makeover..>>>

> Yes... but still the same chariot ? http://aediles.novaroma.org/albata/photo.htm

Nah, that was her chariot before they both had an Extreme Makeover. She's a sweet girl now (all
fluffy bunny, sunshine and rainbows).
http://www.be.paganfederation.org/Latina.htm

Vale,
Diana

SALVETE OMNES !

I want to remember you the subject :

"This year the Cultural Award has as a subject not just a simple
description of historical facts or military strategies of the Punic
Wars, but its goal is, besides encouraging everyone to participate,
to allow the participants to express their innermost believes and
expectations. Both poetry and short stories (no longer than 500
words) are welcomed no matter the style and fictional approach. The
subject in itself is rather vast and there are so many possible
perspectives as different individuals have different passions. Works
which talk about the setting of the roman camp or about the personal
thoughts of a simple soldier before the battle will be regarded by
the honorable jury with the same attention as for example the poems
which describe the road either back home or the road to the realm of
the heroes.
The challenge consists not only in proving one's literary talent but
it aims at one's both general and personal view of roman life."

To participate :

Each competitor can participate sending a work in any language, with
a maximum of 500 words (these kinds of works are accepted: short
stories or poetry) about the subject presented to the rules section

Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s):
Nova Roman name, Nova Roman Province, and e-mail address.

The deadline to send own work is April 3th 2006 (2759 a.u.c.) at
24.00 time of Roma, by e-mail to iulia.cytheris.aege@... with
the subject "Megalesia Cultural Award". Entries posted to any Nova
Roma mailing list will be disqualified.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/rules.htm

Don't forget : we accept works in any international language.

Let's honoured the Gods and our ancestors.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Salvete omnes!

Thank you for you message, Iulius Sabinus.This is the first time i organize such an important event and i cannot wait to receive the works. I have been thinking a lot concerning the subject because literature is a means of finding a necessary equilibrium, and i also like to think that the writing of fiction offers the individual the best possibility to express the most inner thoughts and feelings. When Ludi are taking place all the disputes should be put aside and we all should honour the Gods.Besides, the Romans did have their original way of dealing with whatever inconveniences might have appeared.Add a little philosophical inquiry, joyfulness, do not forget wit, well measured words and wisdom. You have the subject, you have the Roman heritage. Pray to the Gods of Rome for good omens and do not hesitate : write.

Valete,
Iulia Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege

Titus Iulius Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
SALVETE OMNES !

I want to remember you the subject :

"This year the Cultural Award has as a subject not just a simple
description of historical facts or military strategies of the Punic
Wars, but its goal is, besides encouraging everyone to participate,
to allow the participants to express their innermost believes and
expectations. Both poetry and short stories (no longer than 500
words) are welcomed no matter the style and fictional approach. The
subject in itself is rather vast and there are so many possible
perspectives as different individuals have different passions. Works
which talk about the setting of the roman camp or about the personal
thoughts of a simple soldier before the battle will be regarded by
the honorable jury with the same attention as for example the poems
which describe the road either back home or the road to the realm of
the heroes.
The challenge consists not only in proving one's literary talent but
it aims at one's both general and personal view of roman life."

To participate :

Each competitor can participate sending a work in any language, with
a maximum of 500 words (these kinds of works are accepted: short
stories or poetry) about the subject presented to the rules section

Each text must have the following facts about the participant(s):
Nova Roman name, Nova Roman Province, and e-mail address.

The deadline to send own work is April 3th 2006 (2759 a.u.c.) at
24.00 time of Roma, by e-mail to iulia.cytheris.aege@... with
the subject "Megalesia Cultural Award". Entries posted to any Nova
Roma mailing list will be disqualified.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/rules.htm

Don't forget : we accept works in any international language.

Let's honoured the Gods and our ancestors.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS









---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





Qui dedit beneficium taceat; narrat qui accepit. (L. Annaeus Seneca)


Iulia Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege
Provincial Sacerdos
Legatus Internis Rebus Provincia Dacia.




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE DIANA OCTAVIA !

Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
Salve Iulius,

> Because three years ago you had good results with the Alburnus Maior campaign, maybe a publican post is available.
>Oh, I have a horrible memory, but this sounds familiar. Was this the campaign to save a sacred site in Italy where I put a link on a few of my websites? I think I heard about it from Serapio in 2002/2755?>>>

Alburnus Maior is in Dacia :
http://www.rosiamontana.org/
and indeed you heard from Serapio.

<< ... You know how my driver Latina Harmonia is these

>< days-- she's going to insist on new clothes and a makeover..>>>
> Yes... but still the same chariot ? http://aediles.novaroma.org/albata/photo.htm

Nah, that was her chariot before they both had an Extreme Makeover. She's a sweet girl now (all fluffy bunny, sunshine and rainbows).
http://www.be.paganfederation.org/Latina.htm >>>

Oh...the peoples eyes are already like the snails eyes.

VALE BENE,
Iulius
( 1 from 79 )







---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------







NOVA ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Glad you approve, was a little worried about being too close to your
name, and we are in the same province too! Do you ever go to Roman
Days in Wells, Maine, Nova Brittanica? Maybe we could carpool if I
can go this year... I am about halfway there for you (Maryland).

There is an idea for other provinces too, maybe rent a van together
to get to events if 6 or more people want to go, saves wear and tear
on personal cars and fuel. Shared driving is nice too, I get tired
after driving 12 hours...

I have to admit I picked Gaius after Gaius Baltar in the New
Battlestar Galactica...

Vale,
Cato II

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> C. Equitius Cato C. Domitio Catoni sal.
>
> Salve Domitius Cato!
>
> And let me be the first to congratulate you on an outstanding

name!

>
> :-)
>
> Vale optime,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Domitius Cato"
> <dcwnewyork2002@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Iuli,
> >
> > Tis done!
> >
> > Vale bene,
> > Gaius Domitius Cato
> > Citizenship Pending
> >

Interesting that 'the new Roman Empire' was mentioned as period of
future earth history in the new Doctor Who episode 'The End of the
World'. Often science fiction goes beyond 'fanciful musings' and for
tells the actual future - humans going to the moon, other planets
around other stars, large practical submarines...

New Roman Empire, interesting idea...

Cato II

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
the point of incorporating in the U.S is that you get treated
as an 'official' religion, meaning a tax break & the gov't and no
one else can interfere with you. The U.S Constitutional
guarantee "Freedom of religion" is protected so if you let's say
want to sacrifice to the gods, the ASPCA won't come & arrest you..(I
don't want to go there via animal sacrifice).

Also for our cultores in Dacia, Romania, Iulia Caesaris is forced to
take a class in university in Orthodox Christianity, she only wanted
a certificate from NR saying she belonged to the Religio to try to
get out of this. She also got a F in her religion class for writing
about her beliefs.

As for the Hellenic polytheists, they've been fighting to get
an 'official' place to worship, otherwise if they meet & worship in
a private home, the police could arrest them. So yes it is extremely
important. Under the EU religions have rights, cults do not.....


So I'm with our esteemed Consul Fabius Buteo Modianus, he's an
energetic member of the Religio & a pontiff. I know it's no big deal
to incorporate as a religion, having been a lawyer. Let the other
pontiffs finally take some responsibility & get it done!!!
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior, aedilis plebis

> This quite intrigues me as does the idea of "incorporating" a

religion. Also bizarre sounding to a British pagan is the idea of
Pagan "churches". This is a term I notice that Americans and
Canadians sometimes use but never, to my knowledge, us Europeans to
whom it has rather unpleasant connotations.

>
> In Britain we have an official state religion - which is

generally ignored by the overwhelming majority of the population
except when they get married - and until 1950 the practice of Pagan
religions was more or less illegal. Although now we are generally
free to follow whatever religion we choose I've never come across
the idea of somehow making our religion(s) more "official". By and
large I think I'd rather keep my faith as far away from the
Government as possible!

>
> Having said this I do appreciate that the Hellenes have faced

particular problems with the Orthodox church. Hopefully this latest
decision will provide them with a greater level of protection in the
face of hostility.

>
> Valete
>
> Caius Moravius Brutus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
> Salve Antoni,
>
> P. Dominus Antonius wrote:
>
> > Why does a court have to "approve" an association to worship old

gods,

>
> Because Greece has an official state religion. Many countries do.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> CAIUS MORAVIUS BRUTUS
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and

used cars online search now

> ---------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

This is a simple contest, but with a lot of fun, where the Nova Romans
citizens can participate. Send to me your image in jpg format with a
good resolution, in attachment at : iulius_sabinus@... . The
dead line to send the image is April 1st and April 9th is the date
when you will see the results of my work. The best processed image
will be chosen from all, by the Curule Aedilis Iulius Sabinus Cohors
members, and it will represent the contest winner. The result will be
published on April 11th 2006( 2759 ) at the Aediles Website Result
section and on the Main Mailing List of Nova Roma.
An exemple is here :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/face%20to%20roman%20body.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Curule Aedile

SALVETE OMNES !

I want to thank to all Ludi Circenses participants, who sent me a
description of the chariots,drivers and horses.
That it was a wonderful ideea, amici, and your descriptions represent
a good help. Now the stories will include these descriptions.

I want to encourage all the participants to add a short description in
their mail. The stories will be more attractive.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

SALVETE !

The Dominus Factionum duties are :

- to keep alive the Ludi Circenses spirit.

- to coordinate his Factio activities.

- to enlist new members for his/her factio.

- to manage his/her factio advertising messages.


Until now, we have :

Albata - Dominus Factionum : G. Equitius Marinus.

Veneta - Dominus Factionum : L. Octavianus Pompeius.

Russata - Dominus Factionum : vacant

Praesina - Dominus Factionum : vacant.


Send a message to iulius_sabinus@... , and you will have the
privilege to lead a Faction.

Subscriptions are still open for two days.



VALETE,

IVL SABINVS

Hail the list, I'm still new and not really posting yet, but I
thought some people might like to know about this:
My friend J. Morgan Kuberry is trying to organize a Time Line to
enhance the Kingston Renaissance Faire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/kittywitch/art/fourchar.jpg

He's looking for Romans and Vikings, and basically to help what's in
essence a weekend-long church event to "fight hunger". It's in Ulster
county, NY, and he's hoping to find help to invest some actual
history into what much of the audience doesn't realize is very poor
re-enactment.
If anyone is interested, please call Morgan at 814-282-5220. Could be
fun and a chance to find others who might be more interested in
history than in just eating, drinking, wearing costumes and spending
money on silly stuff.

Thanks- Tchipakkan

known to banks etc. as: Virginia Fair Richards-Taylor

known in the SCA as: Arastorm the Golden

known in Rhuddlan as: AElfgifu of Haywarden

known in family as Mother

(no Roman name yet)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey, you're doing a lot of work and it all sounds fun! I'll be signing up for a few things tomorrow.
Congratulations in advance Sabinus, Curule Aedile Extraordinaire!

<Send to me your image in jpg format with a

> good resolution, in attachment at : iulius_sabinus@... . The
> dead line to send the image is April 1st and April 9th is the date
> when you will see the results of my work.

Could you put my head on a Roman body that is 15 years younger? :-))
Vale,
Diana

SALVE !

Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote: Hey, you're doing a lot of work >>>

Thank you. The hardest part it was to search for oil paintings with roman subject. I have now an entire art gallery in one of my folders.

and it all sounds fun! I'll be signing up for a few things tomorrow.>>>
I'll wait with interest.
<Send to me your image in jpg format with a

> good resolution, in attachment at : iulius_sabinus@... . The
> dead line to send the image is April 1st and April 9th is the date
> when you will see the results of my work.

Could you put my head on a Roman body that is 15 years younger? :-))>>>

I can't take your question in a simple way. It's an entire philosophy here. Only our spirituality is important. The question is how to point out that.( maybe using something from Dali )

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS




NOVA ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE DIANA OCTAVIA !
SALVETE !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
<diana@...> wrote:

>... You know how my driver Latina Harmonia is these days-- she's

going to insist on new clothes and a makeover..>>>

>
>Yes... but still the same chariot ?

http://aediles.novaroma.org/albata/photo.htm

>
> Nah, that was her chariot before they both had an Extreme

Makeover. She's a sweet girl now (all

> fluffy bunny, sunshine and rainbows).
> http://www.be.paganfederation.org/Latina.htm >>>

In this case what I can say ? Let's have some fun :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/fun.htm

VALE ET VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

> Salue, Cato II, et saluete, omnes!
>
> Glad you approve, was a little worried about being too close to your
> name, and we are in the same province too!
>
> ATS (the original one...) That makes three of us...not only in the same
> province, but the same state (if memory serves). There are several people
> with the same cognomen; Seuerus is very common, Caesar is extremely common,
> and Cicero is a close second. Cato isn¹t rare.
>
> Do you ever go to Roman
> Days in Wells, Maine, Nova Brittanica? Maybe we could carpool if I
> can go this year... I am about halfway there for you (Maryland).
>
> ATS: Cato I lives in Manhattan, and, like most of the tribe, doesn¹t
> drive. Moreover, he doesn¹t like leaving Trantor. Secondly, word has it that
> Market Days will be cancelled this year, as will Roman Days Northeast, so that
> the only possibility even remotely close to the NE is Roman Days in Maryland.
> Are you in Maryland, or NYS?
>
> There is an idea for other provinces too, maybe rent a van together
> to get to events if 6 or more people want to go, saves wear and tear
> on personal cars and fuel. Shared driving is nice too, I get tired
> after driving 12 hours...
>
> ATS: So do I‹even the nine or ten hours I have to put in are very
> exhausting.
>
> I have to admit I picked Gaius after Gaius Baltar in the New
> Battlestar Galactica...
>
> Vale,
> Cato II
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Classicist and reenactor, inter alia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > C. Equitius Cato C. Domitio Catoni sal.
>> >
>> > Salve Domitius Cato!
>> >
>> > And let me be the first to congratulate you on an outstanding
> name!
>> >
>> > :-)
>> >
>> > Vale optime,
>> >
>> > Cato
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Domitius Cato"
>> > <dcwnewyork2002@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Iuli,
>>> > >
>>> > > Tis done!
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale bene,
>>> > > Gaius Domitius Cato
>>> > > Citizenship Pending
>>> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Metellus Sabino Cohorti Ei sal. plur. dic.

The ones you have up so far came out pretty well! Arria Carina's image
is absolutely seamless for what I can see, and Cato looks like quite the
poet (probably working on a version of the "Fasti" to rival Ovid). You
were a little harder to find, but I still found you in there (I've been
in bifocals for years now, so everything is hard to find!) I'll have to
see what you can do with me....

Valete, and Bravo!

Q. Caecilius Metellus

Ave Tchipakkan;

> [excision]
>
> known in the SCA as: Arastorm the Golden
>
> [excision]

Would this be the same Arastorm whose mead recipe of about 1982
inspired me to start brewing mead, in addition to ale, beer and
wine???

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/

--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Edictum Propraetoricium XLIIII (Complutensi XVIIII) De Legatus Externis Rebus

EX HOC, SEQUENS CIVIS DESIGNATVS EST LEGATUS EXTERNIS REBUS:

POR EL QUE EL SIGUIENTE CIUDADANO ES NOMBRADO LEGATUS EXTERNIS REBUS:

THE FOLLOWING CITIZEN IS HEREBY APPOINTED AS LEGATUS EXTERNIS REBUS (2ND RANK OFFICIAL):

� AVLVS AVRELIVS FIRMVS (ID#8654)

Hoc edictum dehinc valebit

Este Edicto entra en vigor inmediatamente.

This edictum becomes effective immediately.


DATVM�SVB�MANV�MEA�A�D�V�KAL�APRILES� MMDCCLVIII�A�V�C�,
G�FABIO�BVTEO�MODIANO�P�MINUCIA�STRABE�CONSVLIBVS

M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE

NOVA ROMA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

Just a remind : we still accept subscriptions !
Complete your application form :

Munera Gladiatoria :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/ludi_form_gladiatoria.php

Venationes :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/ludi_form_venationes.php

Give to the peoples the possibility to vote your fighter !

( somebody said that they don't have the necessary courage to come in
Circus Maximus, is true ? )

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Salvete omnes,

Due to changing demands on the time of my current censorial scribes, I'm
now accepting applications from any of you who may be interested in
becoming a member of my censorial staff. Fluency in one or more Romance
languages is a plus, but I will consider all applicants.

To apply, please send me via private e-mail an application listing your
name, time in Nova Roma, language aptitude, and approximate number of
hours you can devote to the work each week.

Valete,

Gn. Equitius Marinus
Censor

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem V Kalendas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.


"THE study of Grammar was not even pursued at Rome in early days,
still less held in any esteem; and naturally enough, since the state
was then still uncultivated and given to war, and had as yet little
leisure for liberal pursuits. The beginnings of the subject, too, were
humble, for the earliest teachers, who were also both poets and
Italian Greeks (I refer to Livius and Ennius, who gave instruction in
both tongues at home and abroad, as is well known), did no more than
interpret the Greeks or give readings from whatever they themselves
had composed in the Latin language. For while some tell us that this
same Ennius published a book 'On Letters and Syllables' and another
'On Meters,' Lucius Cotta is right in maintaining that these were not
the work of the poet, but of a later Ennius, who is also the author of
the volumes 'On the Science of Augury.'

In my opinion then, the first to introduce the study of grammar into
our city was Crates of Mallos, a contemporary of Aristarchus. He was
sent to the Senate by King Attalus between the second and third Punic
wars, at about the time when Ennius died [169 B.C.]; and having fallen
into the opening of a sewer in the Palatine quarter and broken his
leg, he held numerous and frequent conferences during the whole time
both of his embassy and of his convalescence, at which he constantly
gave instruction, and thus set an example for our countrymen to
imitate. Their imitation, however, was confined to a careful criticism
of poems which had as yet but little circulation, either those of
deceased friends or others that met with their approval, and to making
them known to the public by reading and commenting on them. For
example, Caius Octavius Lampadio thus treated the Punic War of
Naevius, which was originally written in a single volume without a
break, but was divided by Lampadio into seven books. At a later time
Quintus Vargunteius took up the 'Annals' of Ennius, which he expounded
on set days to large audiences; and Laelius Archelaus and Vettius
Philocomus the satires of their friend Lucilius, which Lenaeus
Pompeius prides himself on having read with Archelaus, and Valerius
Cato with Philocomus.

The foundations of the study were laid, and it was advanced in all
directions, by Lucius Aelius of Lanuvium and his son-in-law Servius
Clodius, both of whom were Roman equites and men of wide and varied
experience in scholarship and statecraft. Aelius had two surnames, for
he was called Praeconinus because his father had followed the
occupation of a crier ["praeco"] and Stilo [from "stylus"], because he
used to write speeches for all the great men of the day; and he was so
devoted to the aristocratic party that he accompanied Metellus
Numidicus into exile. Servius stole one of his father-in-law's books
before it was published, and being in consequence disowned, left the
city through shame and remorse, and fell ill of the gout. Unable to
endure the pain, he applied a poisonous drug to his feet, which
finally killed him, after he had lived for a time with that part of
his body as it were prematurely dead. After this the science
constantly grew in favor and popularity, so much so that even the most
eminent men did not hesitate to make contributions to it, while at
times there are said to have been more than twenty well-attended
schools in the city. The grammarians too were so highly esteemed, and
their compensation was so ample, that Lutatius Daphnis, whom Laevius
Melissus, punning on his name, often called the 'darling of Pan,' is
known to have been bought for seven hundred thousand sesterces and
soon afterwards set free, while Lucius Appuleius was hired for four
hundred sesterces a year by Eficius Calvinus, a wealthy Roman eques,
to teach a large school. In fact, Grammar even made its way into the
provinces, and some of the most famous teachers gave instruction
abroad, especially in Gallia Togata, including Octavius Teucer,
Pescennius Iaccus and Oypius Chares; indeed the last named taught
until the very end of his life, when he could no longer walk, or even
see." - C. Seutonius Tranquillus, "De Grammaticus" 1-3


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Seutonius

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by Consul, Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

Schedule is as follows:

Contio shall being March 28 1800 Roman time and shall continue Until April 2 1800.

Voting shall commence April 2 1801 Roman Time and shall continue until April 4 2400. Roman Time. Voting shall be suspended until April 24 2400 hours Roman Time due to nefasti where no voting is permitted. Voting shall resume April 25 0001 Roman Time until April 28 1830 hrs Roman Time.

******

Matters of Election:

_____________________________________________________________________

Election of Editor Commentariorum:

Candidate seeking approval: Titus Marcius Felix, Citizen 8193, Plebian, Assuidi, Citizen since 2004/11/18

______________________________________________________________________


Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda

I. The lex Cornelia et Maria De Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-iii.html

II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/200410-07-v.html


III.A: Citizenship from Nova Roma, as stated in paragraph II.A.4. in the Constitution of Nova Roma, may be voluntarily relinquished by notification of the Censors or by public statement before 3 or more witnesses. Messages posted to official Nova Roma e-mail lists or electronic message boards, or statements of an intent to resign citizenship that are made at a public function of Nova Roma meet the requirement for three witnesses to a resignation if and only if three witnesses to the resignation notify the Censors thereof within 72 hours of the initial proclamation. In accordance with the Constitution
II.A.5 a parent or guardian, as above, may voluntarily rescind citizenship of Impuberes.
B. The Censor(s) shall, at their earliest convenience, but no later than within seven days, issue to the citizen in writing or by electronic message an official acknowledgement of this intent to resign citizenship. Resignation becomes effective within 48 hours from the date and time the Censor(s) issue such acknowledgment.
C. Before such time that a resignation of citizenship would come into effect, a citizen may rescind his or her intention to resign, or a legal guardian may rescind the intention to resign of an impubere, by writing or by sending an electronic message to the Censors or to a Rogatoral designate of the Censors.

IV Failure to respond to a Nova Roma census, as per legal obligation, places an individualÂ’s citizenship in temporary suspension. A citizen under suspended citizenship may be given a designation other than citizen, as prevailing law provides. Suspended citizenship may be lifted by the individual notifying the Censors of his or her intent to renew active citizenship, by responding to the following census, or by paying annual dues within the following year. Individuals who are under suspended citizenship are not to be counted as assidui or as capiti censi, and thus temporarily lose the right vote, but retain all other rights of citizenship. If within a five-year period an individual member fails to respond to two consecutive censuses, the Censors may rescind the individualÂ’s citizenship and all its attendant rights.

V. A: If citizenship is resigned without also stating that public offices are resigned, any and all public offices held by the citizen at that time become vacated when a resignation of citizenship comes into effect. No public offices, elected or appointed, carry over into a new citizenship if a resigning citizen should later seek to reacquire citizenship.

VI.A: A former citizen, in the event he or she desires to reacquire citizenship must reapply for citizenship to the Censors through prevailing legal procedures. Additionally, the former citizen is directed to state in his or her application the reasons behind the initial resignation of citizenship, and the nature of the reasons influencing the desire to have it reinstated.
B: The Roman name of a returning citizen may be resumed if no other citizen of Nova Roma has taken it in his or her absence

VII. When a former citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship (postliminium):

No office, religious or civil, held by the citizen at the time of his or her resignation, is regained if that person is granted citizenship once more. After ninety days of being reinstated into citizenship, the returning citizen may apply to the Collegium Pontificum for reappointment to any religious offices that he or she may have previously held. Only the Collegium Pontificum, or otherwise designated religious body, is authorized to reappoint a returning citizen to a religious office.
Any titles, honors and/or effects of past public administrative offices shall be restored to the returning citizen only after a period of ninety days has passed from the date that citizenship is regained. Century points that are due to a returning citizen for any and all public and/or religious offices that he or she may have previously held shall be restored at the end of ninety days.
Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the Censors collegially


VIII. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a second time, this former citizen is barred for two years from reinstatement as a citizen of Nova Roma.

IX.A: This lex does not influence in itself a returning citizen's lawfully established entitlements or restrictions to pursue official positions (via election or appointment) for which he or she would again become eligible. All rights of citizenship are restored in full to a returning citizen after ninety (90) days from when a censor re-enrolls a citizen. At the discretion of the Senate, the normal waiting period may be waived and full rights of citizenship restored prior to the ninety-day period.
B: Further, the language of this lex does not in itself serve to influence those established lawful authorities or parameters by which religious and/or legislative bodies may issue or fail to issue appointments relative to their respective roles and functions, in the consideration of any citizen's application.

X. The Censors will note the dates of submitted and withdrawn resignations in the censorial album civium.

______________________________________________________________________


Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum
I This Lex pursues the constitutional language of Section IV, headed 'Magistrates', which states that an office becomes vacant when a magistrate resigns or dies.
II.This lex clarifies the legal definition of magisterial resignation, consequences of resignation, and those procedures legally necessary to validate and remedy magisterial vacancy due to resignation of office.

III. The language of this lex is binding on resignation of magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata, in the Comitia Populi Tributa and in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.


IV. A tendered resignation from an elected office becomes legal and binding once receipt of same is acknowledged to the resigning Magistrate by an appropriate presiding official (defined below) of the comitia by which he or she was elected.



A i. Resignation of an office elected in the Comitia Plebis Tributa is tendered in writing to the Tribuni Plebii or tendered in writing in the presence of three or more Plebian citizens, who shall witness and communicate the resignation to the Tribunes. Once advised of a resignation, the Tribuni Plebii shall respond in writing to the resigning magistrate within 24 hours, in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office is legally established.

A. ii Elections shall be held in the Comitia Plebis Tributa within 45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate,according to prevailing legal procedure governing elections of this comitia.

Aiii
This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for election in the Comitia Plebis Tributa to fill the vacancy caused by his or her resignation.

B i Resignations of offices elected in the Comitia Populi Tributa or the Comitia Centuriata are to be tendered in writing to the Consuls, or in the presence of three or more citizens,who shall acknowledge and communicate receipt of the resignation to the Consuls. Once advised of the resignation, the Consuls shall respond in writing within 24 hours to the resigning magistrate in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office is thereby legally established.

B.ii Elections shall be held in the appropriate comitia within 45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate, according to the respective prevailing laws governing these comitia elections.

Biii This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for election in the appropriate comitia to fill the vacancy caused by his or her resignation.

V. Consuls may not accept resignations of offices elected of the Comitia Plebis Tributa.


VI. The presiding comitia magistrate who lawfully acknowledges receipt of a resignation of office to the tendering magistrate as detailed in Ai and Bi, shall be responsible for communicating this information to the Censors, the Magister Aranearius and the citizenry via public fora within 48 hours.


VII. Accreditation of century points for partial service of a term of office shall not be affected by this lex.



_______________________________________________________________________
Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation
I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but comitia's
approval of this item will officially repeal the following legislations:

Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html

Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-i.html


The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their respective legal and binding forces. Further, there is no corresponding constitutional language that I can see to clarify their legal purpose. Although they are remarkable from an academic standpoint, the language of these legislations has caused issues of controversy, which might ( atleast theoretically) be avoided in future if we repeal them officially.

____________________________________________________________________
Those voters who do not have a voter code are asked to contact the Censors' office Censors@... to obtain one, as you will need it to log into the cista to vote.

Valete

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.



---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MEGALESIA - CERTAMEN LATINVM

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, scriba ludorum Aedilis T. Juli Sabini, sodalibus SPD:

Dear citizens and foreigners! This Latin contest of the Ludi Megalenses will be an excellent opportunity to improve your classical erudition and to take part in a nice cultural event of the New Roman Community. I wholeheartedly encourage you to participate in this Latin contest, from the 4th of Aprile, during 7 days.

Thank you for your kind attention. More detailes can be read here:


http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/rules.htm

Ludi Megalenses Certamen Latinum Rules

During Ludi Megalenses there will be a dual Latin contest, the Certamen Latinum, with two questions each day (quiz 1-7). This contest is not for Latinists or Latin speakers: it is for those who know some Latin linguistics, some Latin expressions, phrases or just started to learn Latin or are about starting it.

1) One question level 1 will be for those who don't know Latin at all, and one question level 2 for the benefit of those who are beginners or a bit advanced.

2) The two questions of the two different levels will create two separate contests with the same rules and scoring. Every contestant can participate in both contests, but it's also possible to participate in only one.

3) If you'll answer correctly you'll receive 2 points for each question (2 pts for questions of level 1 and 2 pts for questions of level 2, too). 1 point for the answers not complete. 0 for the wrong answers.

4) In each level the winner will be that contestant who will gain the most points.

All the questions and the answers will be published on the web site of Aedilis T. Iulius Sabinus and on NR mailing list.

Before 22.00 (Roman time) of each day of Ludi Megalenses the question will be published; you have 24 hrs to answer; the correct answer will be published the following day, from the 4th April to the 10th April; the final results with the classification and the winner will be published the 11th April.

All your answer HAVE TO BE POSTED ONLY to this email address:

cnaeus_cornelius@...

ATTENTION: Posting answers to ANY NR list will disqualify the sender, and invalidate the question.


VALETE!

CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS
SCRIBA LVDORVM AED T IVL SABINI


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Pompejae Minuciae omnibusque sal.

The link given in the text under the heading "Lex
Arminia Equitia de sanctitate" does not link to the
lex of that name.



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

A. Apollonius M. Moravio Pompejae Minucia omnibusque
sal.

It won't surprise you to hear that my initial reaction
to these proposals is not favourable. They seem to me
to further complicate an area of law which already
unnecessarily complicated and can only be improved by
being drastically simplified. Perhaps more importantly
they take us still further away from the mos majorum
for no reason which I can readily perceive.

But I'm not writing to give a thorough critique of
these proposals. What I'm hoping is to understand some
of the thinking behind them. To that end, let me ask
you two questions:

1. Do you agree that the proposal published earlier by
Ti. Galerius would bring the law of Nova Roma
concerning resignation of citizenship and resignation
of office substantially into line with ancient Roman
practice?

2. If so, why have you decided to bring forward these
alternative proposals?



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

A. Apollonius Pompejae Minuciae omnibusque sal.

One further question, this time a procedural one:

Given that the two leges Moraviae Minuciae propose to
make detailed and substantial changes to an area of
law which has not been adequately clarified even after
two previous leges and three failed legislative
proposals, do you think that five days are sufficient
to allowing the populus to digest and debate these
proposals and to allow you to make any amendments you
may feel appropriate as a result of that debate?



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Salvete omnes:
A very curious thing this about romans in sci-fi. By the way, does anybody know anything about the Star Trek series (captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and company)? In these original series there is chapter titled "panem et circenses" in which starship Enterprise arrives at a planet inhabitated by romans. These romans where settled there by an alien civilization named "the preservers" who came to our planet Earth 2500 years ago in the days of the Roman Republic. The capital city of this planet is named Magna Roma and, apparently, the evolution of this magna-roman civilization is identical than terrestrial romans, including the rising of christianism for example.
So then, it looks like the "roma-mania" may go on for a long time and arrive to where no one else has been before. :-)

Greetings from Spain,

Quintus Livius Drusus

Gaius Domitius Cato <dcwnewyork2002@...> escribió:
Interesting that 'the new Roman Empire' was mentioned as period of
future earth history in the new Doctor Who episode 'The End of the
World'. Often science fiction goes beyond 'fanciful musings' and for
tells the actual future - humans going to the moon, other planets
around other stars, large practical submarines...

New Roman Empire, interesting idea...

Cato II





---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes!

> A very curious thing this about romans in sci-fi. By the way, does
> anybody know anything about the Star Trek series (captain Kirk, Mr.

Spock and company)? In these original series there is chapter titled

> "panem et circenses"

(...)

> years ago in the days of the Roman Republic. The capital city of this
> planet is named Magna Roma and, apparently, the evolution of this
> magna-roman civilization is identical than terrestrial romans, including
> the rising of christianism for example.

I have follow this series, and I disagree. The image of Roma that they
give is a fascist military regime were have blood spectacles that they
give at TV. The only relationship with Roma is the name, some logos, and
part of the spectacle of gladiators. It looks more that Musolini fascist
regime with strange clothes and with gladiators. :-(

Yours:

Lucius Cornelius Malacitanus

SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

Just a remind that Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege accept works in any
international language !
You have now a great possibility to express your roman feelings in
your native language.
Important is to PARTICIPATE, not to win. And is not necessary to be
a writer !
Take that as a challange with yourself.

Read the rules for Cultural Award :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/rules.htm

Write a short story or a poem inspired from Iulia Cytheris' subject
description :

" This year the Cultural Award has as a subject not just a simple
description of historical facts or military strategies of the Punic
Wars, but its goal is, besides encouraging everyone to participate,
to allow the participants to express their innermost believes and
expectations. Both poetry and short stories (no longer than 500
words) are welcomed no matter the style and fictional approach. The
subject in itself is rather vast and there are so many possible
perspectives as different individuals have different passions. Works
which talk about the setting of the roman camp or about the personal
thoughts of a simple soldier before the battle will be regarded by
the honorable jury with the same attention as for example the poems
which describe the road either back home or the road to the realm of
the heroes.
The challenge consists not only in proving one's literary talent but
it aims at one's both general and personal view of roman life."

Then send your work to : iulia.cytheris.aege@...

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:57:58 -0000
From: "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: Pompeia_Minucia_Tiberia@...
Subject: Fwd: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA IS SUMMONED

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeia Minucia Strabo

wrote:

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by
Consul, Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

Schedule is as follows:

Contio shall being March 28 1800 Roman time and shall continue
Until April 2 1800.

Voting shall commence April 2 1801 Roman Time and shall continue
until April 4 2400. Roman Time. Voting shall be suspended until
April 24 2400 hours Roman Time due to nefasti where no voting is
permitted. Voting shall resume April 25 0001 Roman Time until April
28 1830 hrs Roman Time.

******

Matters of Election:


_____________________________________________________________________

Election of Editor Commentariorum:

Candidate seeking approval: Titus Marcius Felix, Citizen 8193,
Plebian, Assuidi, Citizen since 2004/11/18


_____________________________________________________________________
_


Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda

I. The lex Cornelia et Maria De Civitate Eiuranda is hereby
repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-iii.html

II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/200410-07-v.html


III.A: Citizenship from Nova Roma, as stated in paragraph II.A.4.
in the Constitution of Nova Roma, may be voluntarily relinquished by
notification of the Censors or by public statement before 3 or more
witnesses. Messages posted to official Nova Roma e-mail lists or
electronic message boards, or statements of an intent to resign
citizenship that are made at a public function of Nova Roma meet the
requirement for three witnesses to a resignation if and only if
three witnesses to the resignation notify the Censors thereof within
72 hours of the initial proclamation. In accordance with the
Constitution
II.A.5 a parent or guardian, as above, may voluntarily rescind
citizenship of Impuberes.
B. The Censor(s) shall, at their earliest convenience, but no
later than within seven days, issue to the citizen in writing or by
electronic message an official acknowledgement of this intent to
resign citizenship. Resignation becomes effective within 48 hours
from the date and time the Censor(s) issue such acknowledgment.
C. Before such time that a resignation of citizenship would come
into effect, a citizen may rescind his or her intention to resign,
or a legal guardian may rescind the intention to resign of an
impubere, by writing or by sending an electronic message to the
Censors or to a Rogatoral designate of the Censors.

IV Failure to respond to a Nova Roma census, as per legal
obligation, places an individual's citizenship in temporary
suspension. A citizen under suspended citizenship may be given a
designation other than citizen, as prevailing law provides.
Suspended citizenship may be lifted by the individual notifying the
Censors of his or her intent to renew active citizenship, by
responding to the following census, or by paying annual dues within
the following year. Individuals who are under suspended citizenship
are not to be counted as assidui or as capiti censi, and thus
temporarily lose the right vote, but retain all other rights of
citizenship. If within a five-year period an individual member fails
to respond to two consecutive censuses, the Censors may rescind the
individual's citizenship and all its attendant rights.

V. A: If citizenship is resigned without also stating that public
offices are resigned, any and all public offices held by the citizen
at that time become vacated when a resignation of citizenship comes
into effect. No public offices, elected or appointed, carry over
into a new citizenship if a resigning citizen should later seek to
reacquire citizenship.

VI.A: A former citizen, in the event he or she desires to
reacquire citizenship must reapply for citizenship to the Censors
through prevailing legal procedures. Additionally, the former
citizen is directed to state in his or her application the reasons
behind the initial resignation of citizenship, and the nature of the
reasons influencing the desire to have it reinstated.
B: The Roman name of a returning citizen may be resumed if no
other citizen of Nova Roma has taken it in his or her absence

VII. When a former citizen applies for reinstatement of
citizenship (postliminium):

No office, religious or civil, held by the citizen at the time
of his or her resignation, is regained if that person is granted
citizenship once more. After ninety days of being reinstated into
citizenship, the returning citizen may apply to the Collegium
Pontificum for reappointment to any religious offices that he or she
may have previously held. Only the Collegium Pontificum, or
otherwise designated religious body, is authorized to reappoint a
returning citizen to a religious office.
Any titles, honors and/or effects of past public
administrative offices shall be restored to the returning citizen
only after a period of ninety days has passed from the date that
citizenship is regained. Century points that are due to a returning
citizen for any and all public and/or religious offices that he or
she may have previously held shall be restored at the end of ninety
days.
Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the
Censors collegially


VIII. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and
resigns a second time, this former citizen is barred for two years
from reinstatement as a citizen of Nova Roma.

IX.A: This lex does not influence in itself a returning citizen's
lawfully established entitlements or restrictions to pursue official
positions (via election or appointment) for which he or she would
again become eligible. All rights of citizenship are restored in
full to a returning citizen after ninety (90) days from when a
censor re-enrolls a citizen. At the discretion of the Senate, the
normal waiting period may be waived and full rights of citizenship
restored prior to the ninety-day period.
B: Further, the language of this lex does not in itself serve to
influence those established lawful authorities or parameters by
which religious and/or legislative bodies may issue or fail to issue
appointments relative to their respective roles and functions, in
the consideration of any citizen's application.

X. The Censors will note the dates of submitted and withdrawn
resignations in the censorial album civium.

_____________________________________________________________________
_


Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum
I This Lex pursues the constitutional language of Section IV,
headed 'Magistrates', which states that an office becomes vacant
when a magistrate resigns or dies.
II.This lex clarifies the legal definition of magisterial
resignation, consequences of resignation, and those procedures
legally necessary to validate and remedy magisterial vacancy due to
resignation of office.

III. The language of this lex is binding on resignation of
magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata, in the
Comitia Populi Tributa and in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.


IV. A tendered resignation from an elected office becomes legal
and binding once receipt of same is acknowledged to the resigning
Magistrate by an appropriate presiding official (defined below) of
the comitia by which he or she was elected.



A i. Resignation of an office elected in the Comitia Plebis
Tributa is tendered in writing to the Tribuni Plebii or tendered in
writing in the presence of three or more Plebian citizens, who shall
witness and communicate the resignation to the Tribunes. Once
advised of a resignation, the Tribuni Plebii shall respond in
writing to the resigning magistrate within 24 hours, in order to
acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office
is legally established.

A. ii Elections shall be held in the Comitia Plebis Tributa within
45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect
magistrate,according to prevailing legal procedure governing
elections of this comitia.

Aiii
This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from
standing for election in the Comitia Plebis Tributa to fill the
vacancy caused by his or her resignation.

B i Resignations of offices elected in the Comitia Populi Tributa
or the Comitia Centuriata are to be tendered in writing to the
Consuls, or in the presence of three or more citizens,who shall
acknowledge and communicate receipt of the resignation to the
Consuls. Once advised of the resignation, the Consuls shall respond
in writing within 24 hours to the resigning magistrate in order to
acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office
is thereby legally established.

B.ii Elections shall be held in the appropriate comitia within 45
days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate, according
to the respective prevailing laws governing these comitia elections.

Biii This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from
standing for election in the appropriate comitia to fill the vacancy
caused by his or her resignation.

V. Consuls may not accept resignations of offices elected of the
Comitia Plebis Tributa.


VI. The presiding comitia magistrate who lawfully acknowledges
receipt of a resignation of office to the tendering magistrate as
detailed in Ai and Bi, shall be responsible for communicating this
information to the Censors, the Magister Aranearius and the
citizenry via public fora within 48 hours.


VII. Accreditation of century points for partial service of a
term of office shall not be affected by this lex.




_____________________________________________________________________
__
Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation
I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but
comitia's
approval of this item will officially repeal the following
legislations:

Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html

Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-ii.html


The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their
respective legal and binding forces. Further, there is no
corresponding constitutional language that I can see to clarify
their legal purpose. Although they are remarkable from an academic
standpoint, the language of these legislations has caused issues of
controversy, which might ( atleast theoretically) be avoided in
future if we repeal them officially.


____________________________________________________________________
Those voters who do not have a voter code are asked to contact the
Censors' office Censors@... to obtain one, as you will need it to
log into the cista to vote.

Valete

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously
low rates.



---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- End forwarded message ---







---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Q Livius Drusus,

< A very curious thing this about romans in sci-fi. By the way, does anybody know anything about the
Star Trek series (captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and company)? <In these original series there is chapter
titled "panem et circenses" in which starship Enterprise arrives at a planet inhabitated by romans.

Sure do. It's the episode where Spock gets whipped and has green blood bleeding from his back. Gotta
love it!

< Greetings from Spain,
Greetings from Belgica!
Diana

---Salvete A. Apollonius Cordus et Omnes:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius M. Moravio Pompejae Minucia omnibusque
> sal.
>
> It won't surprise you to hear that my initial reaction
> to these proposals is not favourable.

PMS: Cordus, I'm absolutely stunned.


They seem to me

> to further complicate an area of law which already
> unnecessarily complicated and can only be improved by
> being drastically simplified. Perhaps more importantly
> they take us still further away from the mos majorum
> for no reason which I can readily perceive.

PMS: That is why we are proposing the existing legislations
regarding resignations be repealed, and starting from scratch.

>
> But I'm not writing to give a thorough critique of
> these proposals. What I'm hoping is to understand some
> of the thinking behind them. To that end, let me ask
> you two questions:
>
> 1. Do you agree that the proposal published earlier by
> Ti. Galerius would bring the law of Nova Roma
> concerning resignation of citizenship and resignation
> of office substantially into line with ancient Roman
> practice?
>
> 2. If so, why have you decided to bring forward these
> alternative proposals?

PMS: We cannot mirror antiqua in every way. Nova Roma has two
important aspects to consider: For one, we are a voluntary
organization, with citizens of dual citizenship...our macronational
lineage and NR citizenship. Two, regarding the case of magisterial
resignations, we have to consider that we are dealing with
procedures of resignation of corporate executives, not
just 'magistrates within Nova Roma'. Let's agree on a process.
Granted, it can be said that resignation of citizenship was hardly
commonplace (but not totally unheard of) in antiqua.... neither was
the resignation of a magistrate. In this 21 Century, by virtue of
macronational rights which can't be extinguished by the NR
constitution or laws... citizens have the 'right' to resign...the
right to say "I know longer desire to be associated with Nova Roma
as a member/citizen". Or, "Remove my name from your membership
roster". It is perhaps not the way we 'prefer' it, but it is the
way it 'is'...and these pesky modern factors invariably influence
the direction of the Mos Maiorum in Nova Roma.

It isn't how close or how far away we are from the Ancient Mos that
has caused arguments about resignations here in the past...it is the
ambiguous, fragmented language of our current resignation
legislation.


All in all...we are never going to be able to make resignations 'go
away' because they lack historical precedent, be they tendered to a
few witnesses or to a crowd. So we need policies in place to
legally define how they are going to be handled.

Valete
Pompeia Minucia Strabo

>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all

new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> > Salue, Cato II, et saluete, omnes!
> >
> > Glad you approve, was a little worried about being too close to

your

> > name, and we are in the same province too!
> >
> > ATS (the original one...) That makes three of us...not only

in the same

> > province, but the same state (if memory serves). There are

several people

> > with the same cognomen; Seuerus is very common, Caesar is

extremely common,

> > and Cicero is a close second. Cato isn¹t rare.
> >
> > Do you ever go to Roman
> > Days in Wells, Maine, Nova Brittanica? Maybe we could carpool

if I

> > can go this year... I am about halfway there for you (Maryland).
> >
> > ATS: Cato I lives in Manhattan, and, like most of the

tribe, doesn¹t

> > drive. Moreover, he doesn¹t like leaving Trantor. Secondly,

word has it that

> > Market Days will be cancelled this year, as will Roman Days

Northeast, so that

> > the only possibility even remotely close to the NE is Roman Days

in Maryland.

> > Are you in Maryland, or NYS?
> >

It seems there is a critical mass of citizens here in the province
would be nice to have some event. Need not be a full reactment,
maybe a picnic with some roman food or something fun and
inexpensive. I am in Albany, NY.

Nice parallel to the Foundation Series, itself a future reflection
of Roma. My company is called Trantor Development.

Depends when Roman Days Maryland is held, if I can go would be happy
to give you a ride and we could share fuel cost, the city is not out
of the way, usually drive I-88/81 south to avoid traffic and tolls,
but I know a few ways to get through Jersey toll free...

Was there tolls on roads in Roma Antigua?

> > There is an idea for other provinces too, maybe rent a van

together

> > to get to events if 6 or more people want to go, saves wear and

tear

> > on personal cars and fuel. Shared driving is nice too, I get

tired

> > after driving 12 hours...
> >
> > ATS: So do I‹even the nine or ten hours I have to put in

are very

> > exhausting.
> >
> > I have to admit I picked Gaius after Gaius Baltar in the New
> > Battlestar Galactica...
> >
> > Vale,
> > Cato II
> >
> > Vale, et ualete,
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> > Classicist and reenactor, inter alia

Battlestar Galactica is not Roman, but a classic future...

Do you make authentic looking roman clothes (not the bedsheet toga)
or is there an inexpensive place to get them? If you make them is
there a website with instructions and guidelines?

Valate bene,
C. Domitius Cato

---Salve A. Apollonius Cordus et Salvete Omnes:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius Pompejae Minuciae omnibusque sal.
>
> One further question, this time a procedural one:
>
> Given that the two leges Moraviae Minuciae propose to
> make detailed and substantial changes to an area of
> law which has not been adequately clarified even after
> two previous leges and three failed legislative
> proposals, do you think that five days are sufficient
> to allowing the populus to digest and debate these
> proposals and to allow you to make any amendments you
> may feel appropriate as a result of that debate?

PMS: After large chunks of an entire year (2005) being chewed up
over the resignation issue, yep. I have faith in the cognitive,
reflective abilities of the people, and five days is an accepted
time for a contio in this comitia, according to prevailing law. I
also have faith that the people will ask pointed, applicable
questions if in doubt. I certainly wouldn't expect them to vote for
anything simply because I proposed it. Hopefully those who are
uncomfortable with any idea of mine will enlighten me accordingly.
On the flipside, I wouldn't want people to think I am being overly
critical or closeminded about a proposal of someone else, simply
because I wasn't its originator/author.

Valete
Pompeia Minucia Strabo

>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all

new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

>

Salve Consul Strabo, et salvete quirites,

Pompeia Minucia Strabo <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:

[...]

> Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda

> II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/200410-07-v.html

The correct URL is http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-10-07-v.html

Having read the text of the proposed law I intend to vote for it. When I
placed my law before the comitia two years ago it was an incremental step
forward. This is another incremental step that I don't think we could have
passed then, but might reasonably pass now.

[...]

> Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum

[...]

> III. The language of this lex is binding on resignation of
> magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata, in the
> Comitia Populi Tributa and in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

I don't think we can do this consul. I recommend three leges, similar to one
another, addressing the magistrates elected by the three different comitia.
While I could accept some argument that the vote of the tribes in the Comitia
Populi would approximate a vote of the plebeian members of the tribes in the
Concilium Plebis, I think the idea of conflating the two goes against Roman
custom and tradition. Certainly the Comitia Populi ought not be making
policy for the Comitia Centuriata.

[...]

> Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation
> I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but
> comitia's
> approval of this item will officially repeal the following
> legislations:
>
> Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html
>
> Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-ii.html
>
>
> The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their
> respective legal and binding forces.

No they don't! They simply say that they don't define WHICH MAGISTRATES
possess the defined property.

What the two leges do is define the meaning of the term "curule dignity" and
"sanctitas" respectively, since those terms are undefined in the constitution
or any other law.

I strongly encourage the quirites to vote against this last proposal.

Vale, et valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

---Salve Equitius Marinus Censor et Salvete Omnes:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "CN•EQVIT•MARINVS \(Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus\)" <gawne@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Consul Strabo, et salvete quirites,
>
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:
>
> [...]
> > Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda
>
> > II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/200410-07-v.html
>
> The correct URL is http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-

10-07-v.html

>
> Having read the text of the proposed law I intend to vote for it.

When I

> placed my law before the comitia two years ago it was an

incremental step

> forward. This is another incremental step that I don't think we

could have

> passed then, but might reasonably pass now.

PMS: Thanks. None of us has a crystal ball and we make the needed
changes as we go. My thanks to Tribune Piscinus for his assistance
in this regard.

>
> [...]
> > Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum
> [...]
> > III. The language of this lex is binding on resignation of
> > magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata, in the
> > Comitia Populi Tributa and in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.
>
> I don't think we can do this consul. I recommend three leges,

similar to one

> another, addressing the magistrates elected by the three different

comitia.

> While I could accept some argument that the vote of the tribes in

the Comitia

> Populi would approximate a vote of the plebeian members of the

tribes in the

> Concilium Plebis, I think the idea of conflating the two goes

against Roman

> custom and tradition. Certainly the Comitia Populi ought not be

making

> policy for the Comitia Centuriata.

PMS: I think we're ok with the Tribune/Consul copromulgating this
for both the Comitia Populi Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa.
The Tribune in NR may influence policy for the plebs if the ratio
of patricians to plebs exceeds 10%, which you indicated to me it
does, and thanks BTW. The Tribune doesn't need auspices and I've had
them taken on my behalf.

Now, with respect to the Comitia Centuriata...you are quite
right. I need a slap for that one. That's got to go through the
Comtia Centuriata. I'll either defer that until another comitia
call or just delete the aspects involving the comitia centuriata for
now.

>
> [...]
> > Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation
> > I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but
> > comitia's
> > approval of this item will officially repeal the following
> > legislations:
> >
> > Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html
> >
> > Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-ii.html
> >
> >
> > The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their
> > respective legal and binding forces.
>
> No they don't! They simply say that they don't define WHICH

MAGISTRATES

> possess the defined property.

PMS: Yes, but this is the rub Censor. They don't in the
constitution either. Yes, we know who had curule dignity and
sanctity in antiqua, but the Constitution is the highest ruling
document 'limiting' authority. No where does it state that any
specific magistrature has these designations and attendant powers in
the constitution, yet they are the basis for argument..."I have
curule dignity so I can do this", and "I am not accountable because
I have 'sanctity', just like in antiqua"...but the constitution is
silent on these things, and these leges state within themselves that
they are not the deciding factors in these matters. So if they are
by their own language legally inert, and the constitution is
silent...why are they on the books amongst laws with legal and
binding meaning ? I recommend putting them to bed until such time
as more clear language is adopted regarding these terms. I wonder if
they were not part of plan for future corresponding legislation, but
if so, this never came to pass and they are not doing very much
good...on the contrary, with the arguments they've caused, with
respect.

>
> What the two leges do is define the meaning of the term "curule

dignity" and

> "sanctitas" respectively, since those terms are undefined in the

constitution

> or any other law.
>
> I strongly encourage the quirites to vote against this last

proposal.

PMS: See above. I encourage you to reconsider. And I leave this
with the people.

>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Valete, and Gratias
Pompeia Minucia Strabo

>

Salve, D. Octavia Aventina

Don't look now but it may cost you more. My handsome driver, Maximus, is back.
And he's been working out a lot lately.....

Vale bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
The Vestal who LOVES chariot racing! ;)


Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
Oh no, the Ludi are going to cost me a fortune... You know how my driver Latina Harmonia is these
days-- she's going to insist on new clothes and a makeover..

Vale,
Diana

---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

With the resignation of Gaius Minucius Hadrianus from the office of
Censor there is a vacancy. All persons interested in standing for the
office of Censor are now notified that I am accepting persons willing
to stand for office.

To qualify to stand for Censor you must:

Be at least 27 years old. Must already have served at least six months
as a consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister
aranearius (formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly
curator differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.

Those interested in standing for Censor please issue a statement to
the main list, and send me a copy of your statement to:
tau.athanasios@...

I will leave the call for candidates open until April 6th.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

The Comitia Centuriata is hereby summoned.


The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by Consul, Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

Schedule is as follows:

Contio shall begin March 28, 2400 hrs Roman time and shall continue until April 2, 2400.

Voting shall commence April 3, 0001 Roman Time and shall continue until April 4, 2400 Roman Time. Voting shall be suspended until April 24 2400 hours Roman Time due to nefasti where no voting is permitted. Voting shall resume April 25, 0001 Roman Time until April 30, 1800 hrs Roman Time.

******

Matters of Election:

_____________________________________________________________________






Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum Comitium Centuriatum I This Lex pursues the constitutional language of Section IV, headed 'Magistrates', which states that an office becomes vacant when a magistrate resigns or dies.
II.This lex clarifies the legal definition of magisterial resignation, consequences of resignation, and those procedures legally necessary to validate and remedy magisterial vacancy due to resignation of office.

III. The language of this lex is binding on resignations of magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata.


IV. A tendered resignation from an elected office in the Comitia Centuriata becomes legal and binding once receipt of same is acknowledged to the resigning Magistrate by the appropriate presiding officials (defined below) of the comitia by which he or she was elected.



A i Resignations of offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata are to be tendered in writing to the Consuls, or tendered in writing in the presence of three or more citizens,who shall acknowledge and communicate receipt of the resignation to the Consuls. Once advised of the resignation, the Consuls shall respond in writing within 24 hours to the resigning magistrate in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office is thereby legally established.

A.ii Elections shall be held within 45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate, according to the prevailing legislation governing elections in the Comitia Centuriata.


V. This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for election in the Comitia Centuriata to fill the vacancy caused by his or her resignation.



VI. Once the Consuls lawfully acknowledge receipt of a resignation of office to the tendering magistrate as detailed in Ai above, they shall be responsible for communicating this information to the Censors, the Magister Aranearius and the citizenry via public fora within 48 hours.


VII Accreditation of century points for partial service of a term of office shall not be affected by this lex.

_________________________________________________________________

Those voters who do not have a voter code are asked to contact the Censors to obtain one as you will not be able to log into the Cista without this assigned code. Please write Censors@...


Valete



_______________________________________________________________________


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.


---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pompeia Minucia Strabo <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote: Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by Consul, Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

Schedule is as follows:

Contio shall begin March 28, 2400 hrs Roman time and shall continue until April 2, 2400.

Voting shall commence April 3, 0001 Roman Time and shall continue until April 4, 2400 Roman Time. Voting shall be suspended until April 24 2400 hours Roman Time due to nefasti where no voting is permitted. Voting shall resume April 25, 0001 Roman Time until April 30, 1800 hrs Roman Time.

******

Matters of Election:

_____________________________________________________________________

Election of Editor Commentariorum:

Candidate seeking approval: Titus Marcius Felix, Citizen 8193, Plebian, Assuidi, Citizen since 2004/11/18

______________________________________________________________________


Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda

I. The lex Cornelia et Maria De Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-iii.html

II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/2004-10-07-v.html


III.A: Citizenship from Nova Roma, as stated in paragraph II.A.4. in the Constitution of Nova Roma, may be voluntarily relinquished by notification of the Censors or by public statement before 3 or more witnesses. Messages posted to official Nova Roma e-mail lists or electronic message boards, or statements of an intent to resign citizenship that are made at a public function of Nova Roma meet the requirement for three witnesses to a resignation if and only if three witnesses to the resignation notify the Censors thereof within 72 hours of the initial proclamation. In accordance with the Constitution
II.A.5 a parent or guardian, as above, may voluntarily rescind citizenship of Impuberes.
B. The Censor(s) shall, at their earliest convenience, but no later than within seven days, issue to the citizen in writing or by electronic message an official acknowledgement of this intent to resign citizenship. Resignation becomes effective within 48 hours from the date and time the Censor(s) issue such acknowledgment.
C. Before such time that a resignation of citizenship would come into effect, a citizen may rescind his or her intention to resign, or a legal guardian may rescind the intention to resign of an impubere, by writing or by sending an electronic message to the Censors or to a Rogatoral designate of the Censors.

IV Failure to respond to a Nova Roma census, as per legal obligation, places an individualÂ’s citizenship in temporary suspension. A citizen under suspended citizenship may be given a designation other than citizen, as prevailing law provides. Suspended citizenship may be lifted by the individual notifying the Censors of his or her intent to renew active citizenship, by responding to the following census, or by paying annual dues within the following year. Individuals who are under suspended citizenship are not to be counted as assidui or as capiti censi, and thus temporarily lose the right vote, but retain all other rights of citizenship. If within a five-year period an individual member fails to respond to two consecutive censuses, the Censors may rescind the individualÂ’s citizenship and all its attendant rights.

V. A: If citizenship is resigned without also stating that public offices are resigned, any and all public offices held by the citizen at that time become vacated when a resignation of citizenship comes into effect. No public offices, elected or appointed, carry over into a new citizenship if a resigning citizen should later seek to reacquire citizenship.

VI.A: A former citizen, in the event he or she desires to reacquire citizenship must reapply for citizenship to the Censors through prevailing legal procedures. Additionally, the former citizen is directed to state in his or her application the reasons behind the initial resignation of citizenship, and the nature of the reasons influencing the desire to have it reinstated.
B: The Roman name of a returning citizen may be resumed if no other citizen of Nova Roma has taken it in his or her absence

VII. When a former citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship (postliminium):

No office, religious or civil, held by the citizen at the time of his or her resignation, is regained if that person is granted citizenship once more. After ninety days of being reinstated into citizenship, the returning citizen may apply to the Collegium Pontificum for reappointment to any religious offices that he or she may have previously held. Only the Collegium Pontificum, or otherwise designated religious body, is authorized to reappoint a returning citizen to a religious office.
Any titles, honors and/or effects of past public administrative offices shall be restored to the returning citizen only after a period of ninety days has passed from the date that citizenship is regained. Century points that are due to a returning citizen for any and all public and/or religious offices that he or she may have previously held shall be restored at the end of ninety days.
Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the Censors collegially


VIII. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a second time, this former citizen is barred for two years from reinstatement as a citizen of Nova Roma.

IX.A: This lex does not influence in itself a returning citizen's lawfully established entitlements or restrictions to pursue official positions (via election or appointment) for which he or she would again become eligible. All rights of citizenship are restored in full to a returning citizen after ninety (90) days from when a censor re-enrolls a citizen. At the discretion of the Senate, the normal waiting period may be waived and full rights of citizenship restored prior to the ninety-day period.
B: Further, the language of this lex does not in itself serve to influence those established lawful authorities or parameters by which religious and/or legislative bodies may issue or fail to issue appointments relative to their respective roles and functions, in the consideration of any citizen's application.

X. The Censors will note the dates of submitted and withdrawn resignations in the censorial album civium.

______________________________________________________________________


Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum Comitium Plebium Tributum et Comitium Populum Tributum
I This Lex pursues the constitutional language of Section IV, headed 'Magistrates', which states that an office becomes vacant when a magistrate resigns or dies.
II.This lex clarifies the legal definition of magisterial resignation, consequences of resignation, and those procedures legally necessary to validate and remedy magisterial vacancy due to resignation of office.

III. The language of this lex is binding on resignations of magisterial offices elected in the Comitia Populi Tributa and in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.


IV. A tendered resignation from an elected office becomes legal and binding once receipt of same is acknowledged to the resigning Magistrate by an appropriate presiding official (defined below) of the comitia by which he or she was elected.



A i. Resignation of an office elected in the Comitia Plebis Tributa is tendered in writing to the Tribuni Plebii or tendered in writing in the presence of three or more Plebian citizens, who shall witness and communicate the resignation to the Tribunes. Once advised of a resignation, the Tribuni Plebii shall respond in writing to the resigning magistrate within 24 hours, in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office is legally established.

A. ii Elections shall be held in the Comitia Plebis Tributa within 45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate,according to prevailing legal procedure governing elections of this comitia.

Aiii
This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for election in the Comitia Plebis Tributa to fill the vacancy caused by his or her resignation.

B i Resignations of offices elected in the Comitia Populi Tributa are to be tendered in writing to the Consuls, or tendered in writing in the presence of three or more citizens,who shall acknowledge and communicate receipt of the resignation to the Consuls. Once advised of the resignation, the Consuls shall respond in writing within 24 hours to the resigning magistrate in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office is thereby legally established.

B.ii Elections shall be held in the appropriate comitia within 45 days of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate, according to the respective prevailing laws governing elections in the Comitia Populi Tributa.

Biii This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for election in the Comitia Populi Tributa to fill the vacancy caused by his or her resignation.

V. Consuls may not accept resignations of offices elected of the Comitia Plebis Tributa.


VI. The presiding comitia magistrate who lawfully acknowledges receipt of a resignation of office to the tendering magistrate as detailed in Ai and Bi, shall be responsible for communicating this information to the Censors, the Magister Aranearius and the citizenry via public fora within 48 hours.


VII. Accreditation of century points for partial service of a term of office shall not be affected by this lex.



_______________________________________________________________________
Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation

I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but comitia's
approval of this item will officially repeal the following legislations:

Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html

Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-i.html


The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their respective legal and binding forces. Further, there is no corresponding constitutional language that I can see to clarify their legal purpose. Although they are remarkable from an academic standpoint, the language of these legislations has caused issues of controversy, which might ( atleast theoretically) be avoided in future if we repeal them officially.

---------------------------------


Those voters who do not have a voter code or who do not remember their voter code are asked to contact the Censor's office to obtain one as you will require this for voting.

Censors@...


Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.


---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.


---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.


---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica Consuli Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus S.P.D.

I have indicated some corrections (and minimal comments) below. I
trust that they will be accepted in the calm spirit in which they are
offered; the fewer errors are in the official text, the better. This may be
the only time the citizenry sees these texts; apparently the latest laws
passed have yet to see the Tabularium.

=========

>
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
>
> The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by Consul,
> Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
>
> Schedule is as follows:
>
> Contio shall being March 28 1800 Roman time and shall continue Until April 2
> 1800.
>
> Voting shall commence April 2 1801 Roman Time and shall continue until April
> 4 2400. Roman Time. Voting shall be suspended until April 24 2400 hours Roman
> Time due to nefasti where no voting is permitted. Voting shall resume April
> 25 0001 Roman Time until April 28 1830 hrs Roman Time.
>
> ******
>
> Matters of Election:
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Election of Editor Commentariorum:
>
> Candidate seeking approval: Titus Marcius Felix, Citizen 8193, Plebian,
> Assuidi, Citizen since 2004/11/18
>
> ATS: He¹s plebeian, assiduus. Assidui (the proper spelling) are plural.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
> Lex Moravia Minucia de Civitate Eiuranda
>
> I. The lex Cornelia et Maria De Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-iii.html
>
> II. The Lex Equitia de Civitate Eiuranda is hereby repealed.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/letes/200410-07-v.html
>
> ATS: This would be Œleges,¹ not Œletes.¹
>
>
> III.A: Citizenship from Nova Roma, as stated in paragraph II.A.4. in the
> Constitution of Nova Roma, may be voluntarily relinquished by notification of
> the Censors or by public statement before 3 or more
>
> ATS: Numbers, particularly small ones, should be spelled out.
>
> witnesses. Messages posted to official Nova Roma e-mail lists or electronic
> message boards, or statements of an intent to resign citizenship that are made
> at a public function of Nova Roma meet the requirement for three witnesses to
> a resignation if and only if three witnesses to the resignation notify the
> Censors thereof within 72 hours of the initial proclamation. In accordance
> with the Constitution
> II.A.5 a parent or guardian, as above, may voluntarily rescind citizenship
> of Impuberes.
> B. The Censor(s) shall, at their earliest convenience, but no later than
> within seven days, issue to the citizen in writing or by electronic message an
> official acknowledgement of this intent to resign citizenship. Resignation
> becomes effective within 48 hours from the date and time the Censor(s) issue
> such acknowledgment.
>
> ATS: Comment only: I take it that this removes the nundinum. Not a good
> idea, IMHO.
>
> C. Before such time that a resignation of citizenship would come into
> effect, a citizen may rescind his or her intention to resign, or a legal
> guardian may rescind the intention to resign of an impubere, by writing or by
> sending an electronic message to the Censors or to a Rogatoral designate of
> the Censors.
>
> IV Failure to respond to a Nova Roma census, as per legal obligation, places
> an individual¹s citizenship in temporary suspension. A citizen under suspended
> citizenship may be given a designation other than citizen, as prevailing law
> provides. Suspended citizenship may be lifted by the individual notifying the
> Censors of his or her intent to renew active citizenship, by responding to the
> following census, or by paying annual dues within the following year.
> Individuals who are under suspended citizenship are not to be counted as
> assidui or as capiti censi, and thus temporarily lose the right vote, but
> retain all other rights of citizenship. If within a five-year period an
> individual member fails to respond to two consecutive censuses, the Censors
> may rescind the individual¹s citizenship and all its attendant rights.
>
> V. A: If citizenship is resigned without also stating that public offices
> are resigned, any and all public offices held by the citizen at that time
> become vacated
>
> ATS: vacant would be better...
>
> when a resignation of citizenship comes into effect. No public offices,
> elected or appointed, carry over into a new citizenship if a resigning citizen
> should later seek to reacquire citizenship.
>
> VI.A: A former citizen, in the event he or she desires to reacquire
> citizenship must reapply for citizenship to the Censors through prevailing
> legal procedures. Additionally, the former citizen is directed to state in his
> or her application the reasons behind the initial resignation of citizenship,
> and the nature of the reasons influencing the desire to have it reinstated.
> B: The Roman name of a returning citizen may be resumed if no other citizen
> of Nova Roma has taken it in his or her absence
>
> VII. When a former citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship
> (postliminium):
>
> No office, religious or civil, held by the citizen at the time of his or
> her resignation, is regained if that person is granted citizenship once more.
>
> ATS: I¹d reword this in the active voice, and add a bit: A citizen
> cannot immediately regain any office, religious or civil, if his or her
> citizenship is reinstated.
>
> After ninety days of being reinstated into citizenship, the returning citizen
> may apply to the Collegium Pontificum for reappointment to any religious
> offices that he or she may have previously held. Only the Collegium
> Pontificum, or otherwise designated religious body, is authorized to reappoint
> a returning citizen to a religious office.
> Any titles, honors and/or effects of past public administrative offices
> shall be restored to the returning citizen only after a period of ninety days
> has passed from the date that citizenship is regained. Century points that are
> due to a returning citizen for any and all public and/or religious offices
> that he or she may have previously held shall be restored at the end of ninety
> days.
> Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the Censors
> collegially
>
>
> VIII. If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a second
> time, this former citizen is barred for two years from reinstatement as a
> citizen of Nova Roma.
>
> IX.A: This lex does not influence in itself a returning citizen's lawfully
> established entitlements or restrictions to pursue official positions (via
> election or appointment) for which he or she would again become eligible. All
> rights of citizenship are restored in full to a returning citizen after ninety
> (90) days from when a censor re-enrolls a citizen. At the discretion of the
> Senate, the normal waiting period may be waived and full rights of citizenship
> restored prior to the ninety-day period.
> B: Further, the language of this lex does not in itself serve to influence
> those established lawful authorities or parameters by which religious and/or
> legislative bodies may issue or fail to issue appointments relative to their
> respective roles and functions, in the consideration of any citizen's
> application.
>
> X. The Censors will note the dates of submitted and withdrawn resignations
> in the censorial album civium.
>
> ATS: Comment: I take it that the current provision of permanent barring
> after a third resignation will be removed if this law is passed.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
> Lex Moravia Minucia Abdicatone Magistratum
>
> ATS: Lex Moravia Minucia de Abdicatione Magistratuum...
>
>
> I This Lex pursues the constitutional language of Section IV, headed
> 'Magistrates', which states that an office becomes vacant when a magistrate
> resigns or dies.
> II.This lex clarifies the legal definition of magisterial resignation,
> consequences of resignation, and those procedures legally necessary to
> validate and remedy magisterial vacancy due to resignation of office.
>
> III. The language of this lex is binding on resignation of magisterial
> offices elected in the Comitia Centuriata, in the Comitia Populi Tributa and
> in the Comitia Plebis Tributa.
>
>
> IV. A tendered resignation from an elected office becomes legal and
> binding once receipt of same is acknowledged to the resigning Magistrate by
> an appropriate presiding official (defined below) of the comitia by which he
> or she was elected.
>
>
>
> A i. Resignation of an office elected in the Comitia Plebis Tributa is
> tendered in writing to the Tribuni Plebii or tendered in writing in the
> presence of three or more Plebian citizens, who shall witness and communicate
> the resignation to the Tribunes. Once advised of a resignation, the Tribuni
> Plebii shall respond in writing to the resigning magistrate within 24 hours,
> in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of that office
> is legally established.
>
> ATS: Plebeii, plebeian...
>
> A. ii Elections shall be held in the Comitia Plebis Tributa within 45 days
> of the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate,according to prevailing
> legal procedure governing elections of this comitia.
>
> ATS: periods should be inserted after the outlining designations, both
> here and below.
>
>
> Aiii
> This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing for
> election in the Comitia Plebis Tributa to fill the vacancy caused by his or
> her resignation.
>
> B i Resignations of offices elected in the Comitia Populi Tributa or the
> Comitia Centuriata are to be tendered in writing to the Consuls, or in the
> presence of three or more citizens,who shall acknowledge and communicate
> receipt of the resignation to the Consuls. Once advised of the resignation,
> the Consuls shall respond in writing within 24 hours to the resigning
> magistrate in order to acknowledge the tendered resignation, and a vacancy of
> that office is thereby legally established.
>
> B.ii Elections shall be held in the appropriate comitia within 45 days of
> the established vacancy for a suffect magistrate, according to the respective
> prevailing laws governing these comitia elections.
>
> Biii This lex does not in itself restrict a former magistrate from standing
> for election in the appropriate comitia to fill the vacancy caused by his or
> her resignation.
>
> V. Consuls may not accept resignations of offices elected of the Comitia
> Plebis Tributa.
>
>
> VI. The presiding comitia magistrate who lawfully acknowledges receipt of a
> resignation of office to the tendering magistrate as detailed in Ai and Bi,
> shall be responsible for communicating this information to the Censors, the
> Magister Aranearius and the citizenry via public fora within 48 hours.
>
>
> VII. Accreditation of century points for partial service of a term of
> office shall not be affected by this lex.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Lex to Repeal Current Items of Legislation
> I don't have a proper Latin name for this measure yet, but comitia's
> approval of this item will officially repeal the following legislations:
>
> ATS: How about Lex (Minucia or whatever) de Legibus Tollendis?
>
> Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html
>
> ATS: Curuli...
>
> Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-i.html
>
>
> The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their respective legal
> and binding forces. Further, there is no corresponding constitutional
> language that I can see to clarify their legal purpose. Although they are
> remarkable from an academic standpoint, the language of these legislations has
> caused issues of controversy, which might ( atleast theoretically) be avoided
> in future if we repeal them officially.
>
> ATS: Comment: Both of these may be rather abstruse, but they do establish
> important definitions.
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Those voters who do not have a voter code are asked to contact the Censors'
> office Censors@... to obtain one, as you will need it to log into the
> cista to vote.
>
> Valete
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Interpres Linguae Latinae
> Scriba praetoris T. Octavi Pii Ahenobarbe and semiofficial Tabularium
> proofreader of long standing
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Domitio Catoni quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > Salue, Cato II, et saluete, omnes!
>>> > >
>>> > > Glad you approve, was a little worried about being too close to
> your
>>> > > name, and we are in the same province too!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS (the original one...) That makes three of us...not only
> in the same
>>> > > province, but the same state (if memory serves). There are
> several people
>>> > > with the same cognomen; Seuerus is very common, Caesar is
> extremely common,
>>> > > and Cicero is a close second. Cato isn¹t rare.
>>> > >
>>> > > Do you ever go to Roman
>>> > > Days in Wells, Maine, Nova Brittanica? Maybe we could carpool
> if I
>>> > > can go this year... I am about halfway there for you (Maryland).
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Cato I lives in Manhattan, and, like most of the
> tribe, doesn¹t
>>> > > drive. Moreover, he doesn¹t like leaving Trantor. Secondly,
> word has it that
>>> > > Market Days will be cancelled this year, as will Roman Days
> Northeast, so that
>>> > > the only possibility even remotely close to the NE is Roman Days
> in Maryland.
>>> > > Are you in Maryland, or NYS?
>>> > >
>
> It seems there is a critical mass of citizens here in the province
> would be nice to have some event. Need not be a full reactment,
> maybe a picnic with some roman food or something fun and
> inexpensive. I am in Albany, NY.
>
> ATS: There is a decent sized group of citizens concentrated in the DC
> area and the NYC area. I used to correspond with one in the Albany area, but
> he has gone silent, and may have left us. I¹m in the other end of the
> state‹the one Georgie Boy sometimes visits with paltry handouts.
>
>
> There used to be a legion in the Albany area, but it seems to be moribund;
> its commander got a higher call to some charming place in the mideast, if
> memory serves.
>
>
> Nice parallel to the Foundation Series, itself a future reflection
> of Roma. My company is called Trantor Development.
>
>
> ATS: It would be hard to develop Trantor...as I recall, it was covered
> with metal, and the sky was unknown.
>
> Depends when Roman Days Maryland is held, if I can go would be happy
> to give you a ride and we could share fuel cost, the city is not out
> of the way, usually drive I-88/81 south to avoid traffic and tolls,
> but I know a few ways to get through Jersey toll free...
>
> ATS: Roman Days at the Marietta Mansion in Glenn Dale, Maryland, near DC,
> will be held the first weekend in June. I have to go to Syracuse and pick up
> I-81 (which I detest); maybe I could take Greyhound, but someone would have to
> meet me in Syracuse, or go about 160 miles (each way) out of the way.
>
>
> Was there tolls on roads in Roma Antigua?
>
> ATS: They definitely had them in colonial America...maybe they did! The
> Thruway has lovely tolls.
>
>>> > > There is an idea for other provinces too, maybe rent a van
> together
>>> > > to get to events if 6 or more people want to go, saves wear and
> tear
>>> > > on personal cars and fuel. Shared driving is nice too, I get
> tired
>>> > > after driving 12 hours...
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: So do I‹even the nine or ten hours I have to put in
> are very
>>> > > exhausting.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have to admit I picked Gaius after Gaius Baltar in the New
>>> > > Battlestar Galactica...
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > > Cato II
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et ualete,
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica
>>> > > Classicist and reenactor, inter alia
>
> Battlestar Galactica is not Roman, but a classic future...
>
> Do you make authentic looking roman clothes (not the bedsheet toga)
> or is there an inexpensive place to get them? If you make them is
> there a website with instructions and guidelines?
>
> ATS: I can make tunicae (I make some of my own) and pallae/pallia, but
> haven¹t tried any togae. Both Merchant Adventurers and La Wren¹s Nest offer
> costumes, but I wouldn¹t characterize these as cheap...and armor is anything
> BUT cheap. At reenactment events, you can pick up military caligae for around
> $80, daggers (pugiones) for at least that much, or more; gladii...but civilian
> attire, and womens¹ shoes in particular, are hard to find. I used to give
> lectures on ancient clothing...
>
> Valate bene,
> C. Domitius Cato
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Iulius Caesar Consuli Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus S.P.D.

I would like to draw the attention of the Consul and the voters to
the following points concerning this proposed Lex Moravia Minucia de
Civitate Eiuranda.

I agree with Cordus that anything that takes us further away from the
mos maiorum is very undesirable and should not be voted for. If that
argument alone does not convince one, then in the light of the above
points I would urge people to vote against this proposed lex on the
basis that it will just add to the existing confusion and chaos over
resignation, due to the imprecision of its wording, lack of clarity,
orphaned clauses and sections, potential for abuse and generally
impractical nature. Allow me to demonstrate a few areas of concern.

Firstly, the effect of section III.A of this proposed lex allows for
notification to be placed on any "official" Nova Roman email list or
message board, or in person at a "public" function of Nova Roma".

This section is too imprecise. A resignation notice could be posted
to a list where no one monitors by email and yet never checks the web
for posts. It could go undetected. Additionally the definition
of "official" isn't provided and this is necessary in order to avoid
debates over whether a list was "official".

As to relying on a public statement made at a public function of Nova
Roma, I can see all sorts of grounds for claims of collusion, fraud
and general malfeasance. It does indeed leave the door wide open for
improper allegations of resignation to be made and just the claim of
such would tie Nova Roma down in a morass of disputes for at least a
year. It is exceptionally unwise to allow unsupported claims of
resignation to be actionable. Lastly of course what is a "public
function of Nova Roma"? It is undefined and thus again this creates a
gap that a legal bus could be driven through.

As to the requirement for witnesses to actually be proactive in
acknowledging the resignation, as I mentioned above time could run
out (the 72 hours specified in this proposal) and then...what? The
resignation is invalid? This would be patently absurd. A person who
leaves Nova Roma, and who has no intention of remaining a citizen,
has not in fact resigned? If this section is to mean anything, then
the non-witnessing of such a resignation would stall the remainder of
the process one assumes.

Under Section V. resignation of public offices would only come into
effect once the resignation "comes into effect". In order for this to
happen 3 people have to witness it and then the Censors have to
acknowledge in writing that this has been received.

Therefore a citizen who is a magistrate and who posts their
resignation on some out of the way list, or even on a busy one, with
no 3 witnesses acknowledging it, would not have resigned as a
citizen. Resignation of public offices can't occur until the
resignation of citizenship comes into effect, which after 72 hours
would be never. The citizen would have left for good and the
resignation would have been invalidated and Nova Roma would have yet
another magistrate in name only, with no possibility of calling an
election until the expiration of that missing person's term of
office. The Constitution does not require this and just states that
it must be "before three or more witnesses". As long as the Main List
has a membership greater than three, the Constitution is satisfied.
Why complicate matters further?

Any law that actually prevents a person from resigning from Nova Roma
is patently absurd by the test of common sense, probably
macronationally illegal and is as pointless as it is unenforceable
and counterproductive.

Secondly, Section II.B is not linked to any preceding section and
thus simply saying that the Censors have 7 days makes no sense
without a frame of reference or starting point for the 7 days. It
simply isn't good enough to leave holes like this in a proposed lex
to close off what has been a very contentious issue. It is just
sloppy drafting. If you want to specify a time period then specify
when the clock starts ticking.

Also in respect of the 7-day requirement on the Censors, what happens
if they do not comply for some reason? Is the resignation invalid? Is
this some subtle way to stall someone "approved" of, while friends
desperately try to talk that person out of resignation? If so then be
honest and simply say that resignation depends on acceptance by the
Censors, without a time limit. If this was not the intent then define
the consequences, if any, of a failure of the Censors to comply. As
it stands, the Censors could accept that resignation 72 days later
and 48 hours later after that it could be in effect. Is this what was
intended? Just saying the Censors have to do this does not mean the
resignation process is terminated. A case could be made that it is
and that it isn't, which would produce another legal morass for us
all to wade through.

Thirdly, rescinding the resignation requires that a message be sent
to the Censors. Why? You have made it possible for people to resign
or for others to claim they have in all sorts of venues, yet you
require that the person resigning rescind by writing to the Censors.
Doesn't it have more symmetry with the preceding sections to allow
them to post the rescinding of their resignation in the same manner
(if possible)? What happens if the Censors say they never received
the email/letter/fax rescinding the resignation? Do we accept the
citizen's word? Do we require proof? Do the Censors have to
acknowledge this communication? Do the Censors have to acknowledge
AND approve this communication?

Fourthly Section IV references a process described in another lex and
unwittingly no doubt creates more room for disputes. This proposed
lex says "Failure to respond to a Nova Roma census, as per legal
obligation, places an individual's citizenship in temporary
suspension." Define what the legal obligation is, for as it stands
this is another orphaned clause that has no meaning but will create
gaps and confusion. Define "respond", for again this interferes with
the process under another lex and yet is imprecise to be of any use.
In general referencing other laws is a risky business unless you are
very precise in your language and specify the limitations that the
new law has on the old. This lex does none of that. It is, again,
sloppily worded.

Section IV also talks about "annual dues". Does this mean the dues
that are in arrears plus the ongoing amount for the current year,
just the arrears, or just the ongoing? Who knows, since it isn't
specified. What are annual dues? I assume you mean the tax, and if so
why not say so to create that desired symmetry of language and
terminolgy? Describing a process defined under other legal
authorities and then injecting different terminolgy that is undefined
and unlinked is very sloppy.

Section IV also says "Individuals who are under suspended citizenship
are not to be counted as assidui or as capiti censi, and thus
temporarily lose the right vote, but retain all other rights of
citizenship." Oh dear, what has been created here, an "almost
citizen"? Someone who can have access to all the rights pertaining to
citizenship under the constitution, except voting? Does this not
affect the class of socii? Again, if this was the intention should
this not have been addressed under a separate lex or at least more
clearly spelled out?

This proposed lex tries to do too much, muddles too many things and
achieves too little.

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeia Minucia Strabo
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:

>
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
>
> The required auspices have been taken and deemed favourable by

Consul, Pontifex et Augur G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

In the days of Roma Antigua, livestock was more of a common asset so
animal sacrifice made a lot of sence. Now livestock is only an
asset for the less than 5% of the population that actually engages
in any farming. 95% of the population never spends much if any time
on a farm and can not stand the smell of feces let alone witness the
slaughtering of an animal. When most people think of animals they
think of Fido, Fluffy or that cute chipmunk they feed picnic scraps
to...

How can you in this day and age kill a creature (furry animal) that
is mainly an object of affection for the vast majority of the
population and not be seen as some sort of sick bastard by people
not familiar with nonchristian religion? Like certain other aspects
of Roma Antiqua (slavery, status of women), certain things must
change with the times. Unless you are a farmer, animal sacrifice is
inappropiate for modern practioners, and even then it should be done
in the least painful method possible. It would seem fitting for
those that want to sacrifice to do so with something of value in
their modern day to day lives. Walk or bicycle to work for a week
(if you you live a mile or two from work), volunteer your time to
hold a Roman themed event or academic seminar or give food to the
local food pantry. These sacrifices make us more healthy, honour
our ancestors, and are a help to our community. They cast eternal
Roma in favourable light and make us feel good.

I think sacrifice is a very important aspect in Via Romana, even for
our christian citizens. True sacrifice makes us strong and makes
makes us appreciate what we have. For those who like to follow the
traditional form of Roma Antigua, you can have an alter and offer
fruit and not offend anyone and still stay true to the original
intent, modern people still eat fruit and they rarely deal with
livestock...

Sacrifice does the most good when it is not wasted and is serves for
the good of all, at least that is my personal opinion. Everybody
makes different kinds of sacrifices but the farm owner sacrificing
the cow can donate the meat to the hungry, the fruit can be given to
a neighbour in good will (before it is rotten of course). Even
christians sacrifice money to the church and that sacrifice goes to
serve the greater good (the church runs relief efforts, etc.)

With proper practice and the right introduction, the larger
community can come to respect Religio Romana.

Valete Bene
C. Domitius Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> the point of incorporating in the U.S is that you get
treated
> as an 'official' religion, meaning a tax break & the gov't and no
> one else can interfere with you. The U.S Constitutional
> guarantee "Freedom of religion" is protected so if you let's say
> want to sacrifice to the gods, the ASPCA won't come & arrest you..
(I
> don't want to go there via animal sacrifice).
>
> Also for our cultores in Dacia, Romania, Iulia Caesaris is forced
to
> take a class in university in Orthodox Christianity, she only
wanted
> a certificate from NR saying she belonged to the Religio to try to
> get out of this. She also got a F in her religion class for
writing
> about her beliefs.
>
> As for the Hellenic polytheists, they've been fighting to get
> an 'official' place to worship, otherwise if they meet & worship
in
> a private home, the police could arrest them. So yes it is
extremely
> important. Under the EU religions have rights, cults do not.....
>
>
> So I'm with our esteemed Consul Fabius Buteo Modianus, he's an
> energetic member of the Religio & a pontiff. I know it's no big
deal
> to incorporate as a religion, having been a lawyer. Let the other
> pontiffs finally take some responsibility & get it done!!!
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior, aedilis plebis
>

Agreed that original Star Trek episode is not a very flattering
tale. It is anti-Roman and anti-Pagan. It was written and aired in
the 1960's so you can not really expect much...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Santo Orcero <irbis@...>
wrote:

>
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> > A very curious thing this about romans in sci-fi. By the way,

does

> > anybody know anything about the Star Trek series (captain Kirk,

Mr.

> Spock and company)? In these original series there is chapter

titled

> > "panem et circenses"
> (...)
> > years ago in the days of the Roman Republic. The capital city of

this

> > planet is named Magna Roma and, apparently, the evolution of

this

> > magna-roman civilization is identical than terrestrial romans,

including

> > the rising of christianism for example.
>
> I have follow this series, and I disagree. The image of Roma that

they

> give is a fascist military regime were have blood spectacles that

they

> give at TV. The only relationship with Roma is the name, some

logos, and

> part of the spectacle of gladiators. It looks more that Musolini

fascist

> regime with strange clothes and with gladiators. :-(
>
> Yours:
>
> Lucius Cornelius Malacitanus
>

C. Equitius Cato quirites S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

This is the problem in a nutshell: we don't have any clear guidelines
that explain what the result of resignation is, or even when
resignation of a magistracy is actually effective.

What we need to do is simply (emphasis on SIMPLY) clarify what the lex
Constitutiva says.

I suggest something much simpler, along these lines:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I. The leges Cornelia et Maria De Civitate Eiuranda and Equitia de
Civitate Eiuranda are repealed.

II. A message posted to the "Forum" (or "Main List") shall constitute
a "public statement before three or more witnesses" for the purpose of
resigning citizenship and/or magistracies.

III. If citizenship is resigned, any and all public offices held by
the citizen at that time become vacated immediately, and elections
held to fill any resultant vacancies as defined by existing law. No
public offices, elected or appointed, shall carry over into a new
citizenship if a resigning citizen should later seek to reacquire
citizenship.

IV. If citizenship is reacquired, after ninety (90) days the
returning citizen

A. may apply to the Collegium Pontificum for reappointment to any
religious offices that he or she may have previously held. Only the
Collegium Pontificum is authorized to reappoint a returning citizen to
a religious office.

B. may be granted any titles, honors and/or effects of past public
administrative office (including century points) they held upon their
resignation.

V. Senatorial status may be resumed at the discretion of the Censors
collegially.

VI. If a citizen resigns more than once in a single calendar year,
and they reacquire citizenship a third time, they shall be barred from
running for any elected public office for one (1) year following
re-admission, with no exceptions under any circumstances whatsoever.

VI. The Censors will note the dates of resignations in the censorial
album civium.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why this?

The lex Constitutiva already tells us how citizenship can be
voluntarily resigned. It's already there, in II.A.4, as clear as day.
They tell the censors or they announce it publicly.

The point of this whole thing is to define what happens if a
magistrate resigns; it's the magistracy that is important, not the
citizenship, for the purposes of the running of the Republic.

Otherwise, unless they specifically resign their citizenship, a
citizen remains a citizen. Forever. If they don't answer a census,
they don't answer a census. If they don't pay taxes, they don't pay
taxes. We already have processes in place to deal with those issues.
Let those processes work.


I strongly urge the lex proposed by the consul, as it stands, to be
rejected; I also ask for a magistrate with the authority to do so to
put my proposal before the People.

Valete bene,

Cato

Salvete quirites, et salve Consul,

[snipping away things we agree on]

pompeia_minucia_tiberia wrote:

>>>Lex Arminia Equitia de Dignitate Curule
>>>http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-30-ii.html
>>>
>>>Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctitate
>>>http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-08-13-ii.html
>>>
>>>
>>>The last lines of both these leges (above) nullify their
>>>respective legal and binding forces.
>>
>> No they don't! They simply say that they don't define WHICH
>> MAGISTRATES possess the defined property.
>
>
> PMS: Yes, but this is the rub Censor. They don't in the
> constitution either.

Then write a constitutional amendment specifying that definition. But
don't take away the definitions of what the terms mean.

> No where does it state that any
> specific magistrature has these designations and attendant powers in
> the constitution,

As you know, we have a long term goal of overhauling the Constitution
considerably. I have made you and your colleague moderators of the
NR_Constitution mailing list in order that you might pick up the
discussion that was active there during my consular year. Let's not go
backward here.

> So if they are
> by their own language legally inert, and the constitution is
> silent...why are they on the books amongst laws with legal and
> binding meaning ?

Because they are parts of an unfinished whole.

Valete,

-- Marinus

I, Marcus Octavius Germanicus, announce my candidacy for the office
of Censor.

I was elected to this position once before. I resigned that office
in the seventeenth month, a decision I now deeply regret. I left my
position as Censor in May of 2004 due both to complications in my
personal life (that same week, I quit the job I had held for seven
years), and my despair over events and attitudes in Nova Roma.

These circumstances are no longer present. I no longer work for a
soul-draining megacorporation. I also see Nova Roma's future as
brighter than it has been at any time in recent years. We have consuls
with vision; we have activity elsewhere in the community (such as
with the coin and calendar projects); and our web site has had more
editing activity in the past three months than in any full year
before.

As a consequence of this renewed hope, I myself have been more
active these past three months than in the two years before. I
completely rebuilt the citizen editor that the Censors and their
scribes use, providing a much more attractive, friendly, and sensible
interface. I created a new citizen search tool, allowing the Censors
to quickly locate and edit any record. I intend to further revise
these tools, as well as the public Album Civium, to make them more
flexible, maintainable, and attractive.

I have also installed the MediaWiki software for the public portion
of the web site, and participated in building consensus for editing
standards with a core team of volunteers. This has been the most
revolutionary change in the Nova Roma web site since the citizen
database was brought online in 2000, and the ease of citizen
involvement will reinvigorate our republic.

If offered a second chance to serve as Censor, I will not under any
circumstances abandon that post. I will complete the term.

Citizens, I ask for your support.

Valete,
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Senator (2753-present),
Curule Aedile (2753),
Magister Aranearius (2754, 2755, 2756, 2757),
Propraetor Lacus Magni (2754),
Consul (2755),
Censor (2756-2757).


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

M. Hortensia Catonis Malacitano spd;

agreed, but why then are Romans always so exciting when depicted in
sci-fi? I remember seeing that episode, wasn't there also an
interracial romance, very daring in those days. we need more Romans
in space;-)
Marca Hortensia Maior

> > >

A very curious thing this about romans in sci-fi. By the way,

> does
> > > anybody know anything about the Star Trek series (captain

Kirk,

> Mr.
> > Spock and company)? In these original series there is chapter
> titled
> > > "panem et circenses"
> > (...)
> > > years ago in the days of the Roman Republic. The capital city

of

> this
> > > planet is named Magna Roma and, apparently, the evolution of
> this
> > > magna-roman civilization is identical than terrestrial romans,
> including
> > > the rising of christianism for example.
> >
> > I have follow this series, and I disagree. The image of Roma

that

> they
> > give is a fascist military regime were have blood spectacles

that

> they
> > give at TV. The only relationship with Roma is the name, some
> logos, and
> > part of the spectacle of gladiators. It looks more that Musolini
> fascist
> > regime with strange clothes and with gladiators. :-(
> >
> > Yours:
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Malacitanus
> >
>

I'm sorry but I think I may disagree. My knowledge however somewhat
limited. The sort of personal deprivations you speak of were certainly
available more or less to the ancients, Rome itself was hardly an
agricultural center, and besides often the animals sacrificed were not
agricultural animals. Yet the ancients felt a need for animal sacrifice.
It is difficult enough to fully discern the details of worship practiced
millennia ago without the additional burden of abandoning some of the most
central practices that are known, especially when such abandonment is
primarily for the purpose of alleviating modern squeamishness. Somehow
biking to work just isn't the same. Besides with my luck I'd probably have
a heart attack or get hit by and car and then there truly would be a blood
sacrifice. :-(

For the record, I oppose child/human sacrifice. So please let's not raise
that red herring, shall we.

IMHO - If you want to practice an ancient religion then do so. Half
measures just seem so much like only going half way.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius

On 3/28/06, Gaius Domitius Cato <dcwnewyork2002@...> wrote:
>
> In the days of Roma Antigua, livestock was more of a common asset so
> animal sacrifice made a lot of sence. Now livestock is only an
> asset for the less than 5% of the population that actually engages
> in any farming. 95% of the population never spends much if any time
> on a farm and can not stand the smell of feces let alone witness the
> slaughtering of an animal. When most people think of animals they
> think of Fido, Fluffy or that cute chipmunk they feed picnic scraps
> to...
>
> How can you in this day and age kill a creature (furry animal) that
> is mainly an object of affection for the vast majority of the
> population and not be seen as some sort of sick bastard by people
> not familiar with nonchristian religion? Like certain other aspects
> of Roma Antiqua (slavery, status of women), certain things must
> change with the times. Unless you are a farmer, animal sacrifice is
> inappropiate for modern practioners, and even then it should be done
> in the least painful method possible. It would seem fitting for
> those that want to sacrifice to do so with something of value in
> their modern day to day lives. Walk or bicycle to work for a week
> (if you you live a mile or two from work), volunteer your time to
> hold a Roman themed event or academic seminar or give food to the
> local food pantry. These sacrifices make us more healthy, honour
> our ancestors, and are a help to our community. They cast eternal
> Roma in favourable light and make us feel good.
>
> I think sacrifice is a very important aspect in Via Romana, even for
> our christian citizens. True sacrifice makes us strong and makes
> makes us appreciate what we have. For those who like to follow the
> traditional form of Roma Antigua, you can have an alter and offer
> fruit and not offend anyone and still stay true to the original
> intent, modern people still eat fruit and they rarely deal with
> livestock...
>
> Sacrifice does the most good when it is not wasted and is serves for
> the good of all, at least that is my personal opinion. Everybody
> makes different kinds of sacrifices but the farm owner sacrificing
> the cow can donate the meat to the hungry, the fruit can be given to
> a neighbour in good will (before it is rotten of course). Even
> christians sacrifice money to the church and that sacrifice goes to
> serve the greater good (the church runs relief efforts, etc.)
>
> With proper practice and the right introduction, the larger
> community can come to respect Religio Romana.
>
> Valete Bene
> C. Domitius Cato
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato C. Domitio Catoni P. Domino Antonio quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

An interesting discussion, and one that pops up regularly :-)

I would offer one note: blood sacrifice is a part of many ancient
traditions, including Judaism; even Christianity has a mirror in the
"sacrifice" of Christ on the Cross.

The pertinent fact is, I think, found in the answer to this question:
"Why did the Jews offer blood sacrifices?"

It wasn't because of dietary practice, or availability of stock, or
any other human construct or restriction. They did it for one reason,
and only one: because God Himself demanded that they do so.

We might very well first ask the same question of the religio Romana:
why did the Romans offer sacrifices?

Valete bene,

Cato

M. Hortensia omnibus spd;
first let me say Cato, I'm a vegetarian, an ethical one, so this
repulses me.
Secondly, Antonius, you seem to forget the Pythagoreans of
Ancient Greece and Rome, they abhorred animal sacrifice..and espoused
a vegetarian diet, viz Apollonius of Tyana
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior

especially when such abandonment is

> primarily for the purpose of alleviating modern squeamishness. >
> Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
>
>
>
>

M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni spd;
King Numa who is regarded as the founder of the Religio
did not offer blood sacrifice. This was memorialized by Ovid in his
Fasti.
I do not wish to argue that practices did indeed change, but at
shrines in the temple of Carmenta animal sacrifice was prohibited and
so also at the shrine of Apollo at Delos and Aphrodite in Cyprus.
So the gods did not command it.

As for the Ancient Hebrews, they committed child sacrifice & also
worshipped Asherah, so the idea of a singular God is a later
creation.

If one is of a mind to take the words of the Hebrew Scriptures as
those of God, well the story of Cain and Abel is understood by Rabbis
about the purity of heart, not anything to do with YHWH needing blood
on the altars.
Of course this idea is important to Christianity as they claim
Jesus was the ultimate blood sacrifice. But this has nothing to do
with Judaism.

Now as for modern day Judaism, of which I am by birth a member,
vegetarianism is regarded as an especial mitzvah -blessing and was
practiced by some of the most famous Orthodox head Rabbis of Israel.
I hope this clears up some mistaken ideas,
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

> The pertinent fact is, I think, found in the answer to this question:
> "Why did the Jews offer blood sacrifices?"
>
> It wasn't because of dietary practice, or availability of stock, or
> any other human construct or restriction. They did it for one reason,
> and only one: because God Himself demanded that they do so.
>
> We might very well first ask the same question of the religio Romana:
> why did the Romans offer sacrifices?
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>