OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Kalendis Maiis; haec dies nefastus publicus est.


"You ask where I think the name of May comes from?
Its origin's not totally clear to me.
As a traveller stands unsure which way to go,
Seeing the paths fan out in all directions,
So I'm not sure which to accept, since it's possible
To give different reasons: plenty itself confuses.
You who haunt the founts of Aganippian Hippocrene,
Those beloved prints of the Medusaean horse, explain!
The goddesses are in conflict. Polyhymnia begins,
While the others silently consider her speech.
'After the first Chaos, as soon as the three primary forms
Were given to the world, all things were newly re-configured:
Earth sank under its own weight, and drew down the seas,
But lightness lifted the sky to the highest regions:
And the sun and stars, not held back by their weight,
And you, you horses of the moon, sprang high.
But Earth for a long time wouldn't yield to Sky,
Nor the other lights to the Sun: honours were equal.
One of the common crowd of gods, would often dare
To sit on the throne that you, Saturn, owned,
None of the new gods took Ocean's side,
And Themis was relegated to the lowest place,
Until Honour, and proper Reverence, she
Of the calm look, were united in a lawful bed.
From them Majesty was born, she considers them
Her parents, she who was noble from her day of birth.
She took her seat, at once, high in the midst of Olympus,
Conspicuous, golden, in her purple folds.
Modesty and Fear sat with her: you could see
All the gods modelling their expression on hers.
At once, respect for honour entered their minds:
The worthy had their reward, none thought of self.
This state of things lasted for years in heaven,
Till the elder god was banished by fate from the citadel.
Earth bore the Giants, a fierce brood of savage monsters,
Who dared to venture against Jupiter's halls:
She gave them a thousands hands, serpents for legs,
And said: 'Take up arms against the mighty gods.'
They set to piling mountains to the highest stars,
And to troubling mighty Jupiter with war:
He hurled lightning bolts from the heavenly citadel,
And overturned the weighty mass on its creators.
These divine weapons protected Majesty well,
She survived, and has been worshipped ever since:
So she attends on Jove, Jove's truest guardian,
And allows him to hold the sceptre without force.
She came to earth as well: Romulus and Numa
Both worshipped her, and so did others in later ages.
She maintains fathers and mothers in due honour,
She keeps company with virgins and young boys,
She burnishes the lictor's rods, axes, and ivory chair,
She rides high in triumph behind the garlanded horses.'
Polyhymnia finished speaking: Clio, and Thalia
Mistress of the curved lyre, approved her words.
Urania continued: all the rest were silent,
And hers was the only voice that could be heard.
'Once great reverence was shown to white hair,
And wrinkled age was valued at its true worth.
The young waged work of war, and spirited battle,
Holding to their posts for the sake of the gods:
Age, inferior in strength, and unfit for arms,
Often did the country a service by its counsel.
The Senate was only open to men of mature age,
And Senators bear a name meaning ripe in years.
The elders made laws for the people, and specific
Rules governed the age when office might be sought:
Old men walked with the young, without their indignation,
And on the inside, if they only had one companion.
Who dared then to talk shamefully in an older man's
Presence? Old age granted rights of censorship.
Romulus knew this, and chose the City Fathers
From select spirits: making them the rulers of the City.
So I deduce that the elders (maiores) gave their own title
To the month of May: and looked after their own interests.
Numitor too may have said: 'Romulus, grant this month
To the old men' and his grandson may have yielded.
The following month, June, named for young men (iuvenes),
Gives no slight proof of the honour intended.'
Then Calliope herself, first of that choir, her hair
Unkempt and wreathed with ivy, began to speak:
'Tethys, the Titaness, was married long ago to Ocean,
He who encircles the outspread earth with flowing water.
The story is that their daughter Pleione was united
To sky-bearing Atlas, and bore him the Pleiades.
Among them, Maia's said to have surpassed her sisters
In beauty, and to have slept with mighty Jove.
She bore Mercury, who cuts the air on winged feet,
On the cypress-clothed ridge of Mount Cyllene.
The Arcadians, and swift Ladon, and vast Maenalus,
A land thought older than the moon, rightly worship him.
Evander, in exile from Arcadia, came to the Latin fields,
And brought his gods with him, aboard ship.
Where Rome, the capital of the world, now stands
There were trees, grass, a few sheep, the odd cottage.
When they arrived, his prophetic mother said:
'Halt here! This rural spot will be the place of Empire.'
The Arcadian hero obeyed his mother, the prophetess,
And stayed, though a stranger in a foreign land.
He taught the people many rites, but, above all, those
Of twin-horned Faunus, and Mercury the wing-footed god.
Faunus half-goat, you're worshipped by the girded Luperci,
When their strips of hide purify the crowded streets.
But you, Mercury, patron of thieves, inventor
Of the curved lyre, gave your mother's name to this month.
Nor was this your first act of piety: you're thought
To have given the lyre seven strings, the Pleiads' number.'
Calliope too ended: and her sisters voiced their praise.
And so? All three were equally convincing.
May the Muses' favour attend me equally,
And let me never praise one more than the rest." - Ovid, Fasti V

"The Kalends of May saw an altar dedicated
To the Guardian Lares, with small statues of the gods.
Curius vowed them: but time destroys many things,
And the long ages wear away the stone.
The reason for their epithet of Guardian,
Is that they keep safe watch over everything.
They support us, and protect the City walls,
And they're propitious, and bring us aid.
A dog, carved from the same stone, used to stand
At their feet: why did it stand there with the Lares?
Both guard the house: both are loyal to their master:
Crossroads are dear to the god, and to dogs.
Both the Lar and Diana's pack chase away thieves:
And the Lares are watchful, and so are dogs." - Ovid, Fasti V



Today is the Kalends of May; dedicated to Maia the mother of Mercury
(whose name gives us that of the whole month), and the Lares
praestites. Among the Lares publici we have mention of Lares
praestites and Lares compitales, who are in reality the same, and
differ only in regard to the place or occasion of their worship.

The temple to the Lares is first mentioned in connection with a series
of prodigious events (106 BC):

"Amiterni cum ex ancilla puer nasceretur, ave dixit. In agro Perusino
et Romae locis aliquot lacte pluit. Inter multa fulmine icta Atellis
digiti hominis quattuor tamquam ferro praecisi. Argentum signatum
afflatu fulminis diffluxit. In agro Trebulano mulier nupta civi Romano
fulmine icta nec exanimata. Fremitus caelestis auditus et pila caelo
cadere visa. Sanguine pluit. Romae interdiu fax sublime volans
conspecta. In aede Larum flamma a fastigio ad summum columen
penetravit innoxia. Per Caepionem consulem senatorum et equitum
iudicia communicata. Cetera in pace fuerunt." - Iulius Obsequens 41

And it was part of the original pomerium of the City:

"Regum in eo ambitio vel gloria varie vulgata: sed initium condendi,
et quod pomerium Romulus posuerit, noscere haud absurdum reor. igitur
a foro boario, ubi aereum tauri simulacrum aspicimus, quia id genus
animalium aratro subditur, sulcus designandi oppidi coeptus ut magnam
Herculis aram amplecteretur; inde certis spatiis interiecti lapides
per ima montis Palatini ad aram Consi, mox curias veteres, tum ad
sacellum Larum, inde forum Romanum; forumque et Capitolium non a
Romulo, sed a Tito Tatio additum urbi credidere. mox pro fortuna
pomerium auctum. et quos tum Claudius terminos posuerit, facile
cognitu et publicis actis perscriptum." - Tacitus, Annals xii.24

("There are various popular accounts of the ambitious and vainglorious
efforts of our kings in this matter. Still, I think, it is interesting
to know accurately the original plan of the precinct, as it was fixed
by Romulus. From the ox market, where we see the brazen statue of a
bull, because that animal is yoked to the plough, a furrow was drawn
to mark out the town, so as to embrace the great altar of Hercules;
then, at regular intervals, stones were placed along the foot of the
Palatine hill to the altar of Consus, soon afterwards, to the old
Courts, and then to the chapel of the Lares. The Roman forum and the
Capitol were not, it was supposed, added to the city by Romulus, but
by Titus Tatius. In time, the precinct was enlarged with the growth of
Rome's fortunes. The boundaries now fixed by Claudius may be easily
recognized, as they are specified in the public records.")

Servius Tullius is said to have instituted their worship; and when
Augustus improved the regulations of the city made by that king, he
also renewed the worship of the public Lares. Their name, Lares
praestites, characterises them as the protecting spirits of the city,
in which they had a temple in the uppermost part of the Via Sacra,
that is, near a compitum, whence they might be called compitales.
This temple (Sacellum La/rum or aedes Laruni) contained two images,
which were probably those of Romulus and Remus, and before them stood
a stone figure of a dog, either the symbol of watchfulness or because
a dog was the ordinary sacrifice offered to the Lares. Ovid says that
the figure of the dog represented Diana's protective pack.


"And Maia, the daughter of Atlas, bare to Zeus glorious Hermes, the
herald of the deathless gods, for she went up into his holy bed." -
Hesiod, Theogony 938

"He [Hermes] was born of Maia, the daughter of Atlas, when she had
mated with Zeus, a shy goddess she. Ever she avoided the throng of the
blessed gods and lived in a shadowy cave, and there the Son of Kronos
used to lie with the rich-tressed nymphe at dead of night, while
white-armed Hera lay bound in sweet sleep: and neither deathless god
nor mortal man knew it. And so hail to you, Son of Zeus and Maia." -
Homeric Hymn XVII to Hermes 3

"The oldest daughter Maia, after her intercourse with Zeus, bore
Hermes in a cave on Kyllene. Though he was laid out in swaddling-
clothes with her winnowing basket for a cradle, he escaped and made
his way to Pieria, where he stole some cattle that Apollon was
tending...Apollon learned who the thief was by divine science, and
made his way to Maia on Kyllene to charge Hermes. Maia, however,
showed Apollon the baby in his swaddling-clothes, whereupon Apollon
took him to Zeus and demanded his cattle." - Apollodorus, The Library
3.112

"The Pleiades" was the name given to the seven daughters of Atlas and
Pleione. Maia was the eldest of the daughters, and said to be the most
beautiful. Being shy, she lived quietly and alone in a cave on Mount
Cyllene, in Arcadia. Zeus, however, discovered the beautiful young
woman, and fell in love with her. He came to her cave at night, to
make love to her away from the jealous eyes of his wife, Hera. As a
result, Maia bore Zeus a son, Hermes.

When still an infant, Hermes stole some cattle from the god Apollo,
and hid them in his mother's cave. When Apollo stormed into Maia's
cave, she showed him the tiny baby to prove he could not have been the
cattle thief. Apollo was not fooled, however, and angrily appealed to
Zeus to punish Hermes. Zeus arbitrated by requiring Hermes to give
back the cattle. During the feud, baby Hermes played the lyre, and
Apollo was so enchanted by the music that he dropped the charges, and
even gave some of the cattle to Hermes, as well as other gifts.

Some time later, Maia helped Zeus when Hera had caused the death of
one of his other mistresses, Callisto, who had borne him a son, named
Arcas. Zeus ordered Hermes to give Arcas to Maia to raise as her own,
which she did. Arcas and Callisto were eventually placed in the sky,
becoming the constellations Ursa Major and Ursa Minor (Big and Little
Bear) to escape the wrath of the ever-jealous Hera.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Tacitus, Iulius Obsequens, Homer, Apollodorus, Hesiod, Smith's
Dictionary, Maia (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/maia.html)

Salve Pompeia,

Thank you for your email below.

I have to admit that I have been quite confused with the calls for voting and ended up not voting.
This is my fault because I've been preoccupied with macro matters and haven't been following the
mainlist as closely as possible. Again my fault: I couldn't remember which comitia had been
cancelled and which hadn't and I didn't have time to look through the archives.

It seems though that I am not the only one who is confused.

Vale,
Diana

Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem.

I hope everyone is well today (and in particular our esteemed Senator Decius
Iunius and his family).

As it is indeed the Kalends of May, as I hope you are now accustomed to
finding, I offered to Juno this afternoon a libation, in recognition of the
usual sacrifice She would receive.

Below I have placed the text of the offering made to Juno, and below that, the
calendar for May.

(As a final note, please excuse any spelling errors in the text below. I'm to
a point now where I have been doing these by memory, so of course when I type
them here, I'm bound to mistype or misspell something.)

Optime Valete in Pace Deorum!

Q. Caecilius Metellus,
Pontifex

=====

IVNONI CAERIMONIA KALENDIIS MAIIS

Jane Quirine, te hoc ture commouendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi Senatuique Populoque Quiritium Romano.

Juppiter Optime Maxime, te hoc ture commouendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi Senatuique Populoque Quiritium Romano.

Mars Pater, te hoc ture commouendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi Senatuique Populoque Quiritium Romano.

Quirine Pater, te hoc ture commouendo bonas preces precor, uti sies volens
propitius mihi Senatuique Populoque Quiritium Romano.

Jane Quirine, uti te ture commouendo bonas preces bene precatus sum, eiusdem
rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

Juppiter Optime Maxime, macte isto ture esto, macte vino inferio esto.

Mars Pater, macte isto ture esto, macte vino inferio esto.

Quirine Pater, macte isto ture esto, macte vino inferio esto.

Juno Dea, Regina Deorum, uti pro causa fas et jus vinum commouere tibi, hoc
vinum accipias quod nunc commoueo.

Juno Dea, Regina Deorum, si quidquam tibi in hac caerimonia displicet, hoc
ture veniam peto et vitium meum expio.

Juno Deo, Regina Deorum, si quidquam tibi in hac caerimonia displicet, hoc
vino inferio veniam peto, et vitium meum expio.

=====

[Day, Latin Day, Nundinal Letter, Designation, Other Information]

1 Kal. Mai. A F
2 a.d. VI Non. Mai. B F Ater
3 a.d. V Non. Mai. C F
4 a.d. IV Non. Mai. D C
5 a.d. III Non. Mai. E C
6 pr. Non. Mai. F C
7 Non. Mai. G F Religiosus
8 a.d. VIII Id. Mai. H F Ater
9 a.d. VII Id. Mai. A N Religiosus
10 a.d. VI Id. Mai. B C
11 a.d. V Id. Mai. C F Religiosus
12 a.d. IV Id. Mai. D C
13 a.d. III Id. Mai. E N Religiosus
14 pr. Id. Mai. F C
15 Id. Mai. G NP Religiosus
16 a.d. XVII Kal. Iun. H F Ater
17 a.d. XVI Kal. Iun. A C
18 a.d. XV Kal. Iun. B C
19 a.d. XIV Kal. Iun. C F
20 a.d. XIII Kal. Iun. D C
21 a.d. XII Kal. Iun. E NP
22 a.d. XI Kal. Iun. F N
23 a.d. X Kal. Iun. G NP
24 a.d. IX Kal. Iun. H QRCF
25 a.d. VIII Kal. Iun. A C
26 a.d. VII Kal. Iun. B C
27 a.d. VI Kal. Iun. C F
28 a.d. V Kal. Iun. D C
29 a.d. IV Kal. Iun. E C
30 a.d. III Kal. Iun. F C
31 pr. Kal. Iun. G C

Salvete,



Just a note saying I will be off one week til the 10 of may for personal
reasons.



Optime Valete,



Sextus Apollonius Scipio





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius Pompejae Minuciae omnibusque sal.

"It is an error but not a consequential one. I'm not terribly worried about it. Mind you if the Centuriata or Populi Tributa were absent then I/we'd have a problem... The Votes cast in the Comitia Plebis Tributa simply will not be entertained as this comitia was never called by due process."

Since the votes will not be counted, I agree that there is no problem. However it may be worth just making a couple of points for future reference.

I've mentioned before in various fora that procedural irregularities do not necessarily invalidate the outcome. Last year's elections in the plebejan assembly, for instance, were "never called by due process", and yet their results were legally valid. So in this case it is not as simple as your comment above. On the contrary, if the votes had actually been counted and the result announced, there is every reason to think that that result might have been valid. If this result had differed from the result in the comitia tributa, then we would have had a serious problem. If the plebs or the populus declares its will, that declaration cannot be ignored. So we must not be cavalier about such mistakes: they could cause serious difficulties.

As I say, in this case you and M. Moravius have averted the problem by instructing the diribitores not to count the votes in the concilium plebis, for which I thank and applaud you.

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est postridie Kalendas Maius (ante diem VI Nones Maius); haec
dies fastus aterque est.

"When Hyperion's daughter puts the stars to flight,
Raising her light, behind her horses of dawn,
A cold north-westerly will smooth the wheat-tips,
White sails will put out from Calabrian waters.
And when shadowy twilight leads on the night,
No part of the whole herd of Hyades is unknown.
The radiant head of Taurus glitters with seven flames,
That Greek sailors named the Hyades, from `rain' (hyein):
Some think they nursed Bacchus, others believe
They're the granddaughters of Tethys and old Ocean.
Atlas was not yet standing there, his shoulders weighed
By Olympus, when Hyas, known for his beauty, was born:
Aethra, of Ocean's lineage, gave birth to him
And the nymphs at full term, but Hyas was born first.
When the down was new on his cheeks, he scared away
The frightened deer, in terror, and a hare was a good prize.
But when his courage had grown with his years, he dared
To close with wild boar and shaggy lionesses,
And while seeking the lair of a pregnant lioness, and her cubs,
He himself was the bloodstained victim of that Libyan beast.
His mother and his saddened sisters wept for Hyas,
And Atlas, soon doomed to bow his neck beneath the pole,
But the sisters' love was greater than either parent's:
It won them the heavens: Hyas gave them his name.
`Mother of the flowers, approach, so we can honour you
With joyful games! Last month I deferred the task.
You begin in April, and pass into May's span:
One claims you fleeing, the other as it comes on.
Since the boundaries of the months are yours,
And defer to you, either's fitting for your praise.
This is the month of the Circus' Games, and the victors' palm
The audience applauds: let my song accompany the Circus' show.
Tell me, yourself, who you are. Men's opinions err:
You'll be the best informant regarding your own name.'
So I spoke. So the goddess responded to my question,
(While she spoke, her lips breathed out vernal roses):
`I, called Flora now, was Chloris: the first letter in Greek
Of my name, became corrupted in the Latin language.
I was Chloris, a nymph of those happy fields,
Where, as you've heard, fortunate men once lived.
It would be difficult to speak of my form, with modesty,
But it brought my mother a god as son-in-law.
It was spring, I wandered: Zephyrus saw me: I left.
He followed me: I fled: he was the stronger,
And Boreas had given his brother authority for rape
By daring to steal a prize from Erechtheus' house.
Yet he made amends for his violence, by granting me
The name of bride, and I've nothing to complain of in bed.
I enjoy perpetual spring: the season's always bright,
The trees have leaves: the ground is always green.
I've a fruitful garden in the fields that were my dower,
Fanned by the breeze, and watered by a flowing spring.
My husband stocked it with flowers, richly,
And said: "Goddess, be mistress of the flowers."
I often wished to tally the colours set there,
But I couldn't, there were too many to count.
As soon as the frosted dew is shaken from the leaves,
And the varied foliage warmed by the sun's rays,
The Hours gather dressed in colourful clothes,
And collect my gifts in slender baskets.
The Graces, straight away, draw near, and twine
Wreaths and garlands to bind their heavenly hair.
I was first to scatter fresh seeds among countless peoples,
Till then the earth had been a single colour.
I was first to create the hyacinth, from Spartan blood,
And a lament remains written on its petals.
You too, Narcissus, were known among the gardens,
Unhappy that you were not other, and yet were other.
Why tell of Crocus, or Attis, or Adonis, son of Cinyras,
From whose wounds beauty springs, through me?
Mars too, if you're unaware, was brought to birth
By my arts: I pray unknowing Jupiter never knows it.
Sacred Juno grieved that Jupiter didn't need
Her help, when motherless Minerva was born.
She went to Ocean to complain of her husband's deeds:
Tired by the effort she rested at my door.
Catching sight of her, I said: "Why are you here, Saturnia?"
She explained what place she sought, and added
The reason. I consoled her with words of friendship:
She said: "My cares can't be lightened by words.
If Jove can be a father without needing a wife,
And contains both functions in a single person,
Why should I despair of becoming a mother with no
Husband, and, chaste, give birth though untouched by man?
I'll try all the drugs in the whole wide world,
And search the seas, and shores of Tartarus."
Her voice flew on: but my face showed doubt.
She said: "Nymph, it seems you have some power."
Three times I wanted to promise help, three times my tongue
Was tied: mighty Jupiter's anger was cause for fear.
She said: "Help me, I beg you, I'll conceal the fact,
And I'll call on the powers of the Stygian flood as witness."
"A flower, sent to me from the fields of Olenus,
Will grant what you seek," I replied, "unique, in all my garden.
He who gave it to me said: `Touch a barren heifer with this,
And she'll be a mother too.' I did, and she was, instantly."
With that, I nipped the clinging flower with my thumb,
Touched Juno, and as I touched her breast she conceived.
Pregnant now, she travelled to Thrace and the northern shores
Of Propontis: her wish was granted, and Mars was born.
Mindful of his birth that he owed to me, he said:
"You too must have a place in Romulus' City."
Perhaps you think I only rule over tender garlands.
But my power also commands the farmers' fields.
If the crops have flourished, the threshing-floor is full:
If the vines have flourished, there'll be wine:
If the olive trees have flourished, the year will be bright,
And the fruit will prosper at the proper time.
If the flower's damaged, the beans and vetch die,
And your imported lentils, Nile, die too.
Wine too, laboriously stored in the vast cellars,
Froths, and clouds the wine jars' surface with mist.
Honey's my gift: I call the winged ones who make
Honey, to the violets, clover and pale thyme.
I carry out similar functions, when spirits
Run riot, and bodies themselves flourish.'
I admired her, in silence, while she spoke. But she said:
`You may learn the answer to any of your questions.'
`Goddess', I replied: `What's the origin of the games?'
I'd barely ended when she answered me:
`Rich men owned cattle or tracts of land,
Other means of wealth were then unknown,
So the words `rich' (locuples) from `landed' (locus plenus),
And `money' (pecunia) from `a flock' (pecus), but already
Some had unlawful wealth: by custom, for ages,
Public lands were grazed, without penalty.
Folk had no one to defend the common rights:
Till at last it was foolish to use private grazing.
This licence was pointed out to the Publicii,
The plebeian aediles: earlier, men lacked confidence.
The case was tried before the people: the guilty fined:
And the champions praised for their public spirit.
A large part of the fine fell to me: and the victors
Instituted new games to loud applause. Part was allocated
To make a way up the Aventine's slope, then steep rock:
Now it's a serviceable track, called the Publician Road.'
I believed the shows were annual. She contradicted it,
And added further words to her previous speech:
`Honour touches me too: I delight in festivals and altars:
We're a greedy crowd: we divine beings.
Often, through their sins, men render the gods hostile,
And, fawning, offer a sacrifice for their crimes:
Often I've seen Jupiter, about to hurl his lightning,
Draw back his hand, when offered a gift of incense.
But if we're ignored, we avenge the injury
With heavy penalties, and our anger passes all bounds.
Remember Meleager, burnt up by distant flames:
The reason, because Diana's altar lacked its fires.
Remember Agamemnon: the same goddess becalmed the fleet:
A virgin, yet still she twice avenged her neglected hearth.
Wretched Hippolytus, you wished you'd worshipped Venus,
When your terrified horses were tearing you apart.
It would take too long to tell of neglect punished by loss.
I too was once neglected by the Roman Senate.
What to do, how to show my indignation?
What punishment to exact for the harm done me?
Gloomily, I gave up my office. I ceased to protect
The countryside, cared nothing for fruitful gardens:
The lilies drooped: you could see the violets fade,
And the petals of the purple crocus languished.
Often Zephyr said: `Don't destroy your dowry.'
But my dowry was worth nothing to me.
The olives were in blossom: wanton winds hurt them:
The wheat was ripening: hail blasted the crops:
The vines were promising: skies darkened from the south,
And the leaves were brought down by sudden rain.
I didn't wish it so: I'm not cruel in my anger,
But I neglected to drive away these ills.
The Senate convened, and voted my godhead
An annual festival, if the year proved fruitful.
I accepted their vow. The consuls Laenas
And Postumius celebrated these games of mine.
I was going to ask why there's greater
Wantonness in her games, and freer jests,
But it struck me that the goddess isn't strict,
And the gifts she brings are agents of delight.
The drinker's brow's wreathed with sewn-on garlands,
And a shower of roses hides the shining table:
The drunken guest dances, hair bound with lime-tree bark,
And unaware employs the wine's purest art:
The drunken lover sings at beauty's harsh threshold,
And soft garlands crown his perfumed hair.
Nothing serious for those with garlanded brow,
No running water's drunk, when crowned with flowers:
While your stream, Achelous, was free of wine,
No one as yet cared to pluck the rose.
Bacchus loves flowers: you can see he delights
In a crown, from Ariadne's chaplet of stars.
The comic stage suits her: she's never: believe me,
Never been counted among the tragic goddesses.
The reason the crowd of whores celebrate these games
Is not a difficult one for us to discover.
The goddess isn't gloomy, she's not high-flown,
She wants her rites to be open to the common man,
And warns us to use life's beauty while it's in bloom:
The thorn is spurned when the rose has fallen.
Why is it, when white robes are handed out for Ceres,
Flora's neatly dressed in a host of colours?
Is it because the harvest's ripe when the ears whiten,
But flowers are of every colour and splendour?
She nods, and flowers fall as her hair flows,
As roses fall when they're scattered on a table.
There's still the lights, whose reason escaped me,
Till the goddess dispelled my ignorance like this:
`Lights are thought to be fitting for my day,
Because the fields glow with crimson flowers,
Or because flowers and flames aren't dull in colour,
And the splendour of them both attracts the eye:
Or because the licence of night suits my delights,
And this third reason's nearest to the truth.'
`There's one little thing besides, for me to ask,
If you'll allow,' I said: and she said: `It's allowed.'
`Why then are gentle deer and shy hares
Caught in your nets, not Libyan lionesses?'
She replied that gardens not woodlands were her care,
And fields where no wild creatures were allowed.
All was ended: and she vanished into thin air: yet
Her fragrance lingered: you'd have known it was a goddess.
Scatter your gifts, I beg you, over my breast,
So Ovid's song may flower forever." - Ovid, Fasti V

Valete bene!

cato



SOURCES

Ovid

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem V Nonas Maius; haec dies fastus est.

"In less than four nights, Chiron, the semi-human
Joined to the body of a tawny horse, reveals his stars.
Pelion is a mountain facing south in Haemonian Thessaly:
The summit's green with pines, the rest is oak.
Chiron, Philyra's son, lived there. An ancient rocky cave
Remains, inhabited once, they say, by that honest old one.
He's thought to have exercised those hands, that one day
Sent Hector to his death, in playing on the lyre.
Hercules visited him, most of his labours done,
Only the last few tasks remaining for the hero.
You could have viewed Troy's twin fates, together:
One the young scion of Aeacus, the other Jove's son.
Chiron received young Hercules hospitably,
And asked him the reason for his being there.
He replied, as Chiron viewed his club and lion-skin, saying:
`The man is worthy of these weapons, the weapons of the man!'
Nor could Achilles, daringly, restrain his hands,
From touching that pelt shaggy with bristles.
While the old one handled the arrows, encrusted with poison,
A shaft fell from the quiver and lodged in his left foot.
Chiron groaned, and drew its blade from his body:
Hercules, and the Thessalian youth groaned too.
Though the Centaur himself mixed herbs culled
From Pagasean hills, treating the wound with ointments,
The gnawing venom defied his remedies, and its evil
Penetrated his body, to the marrow of his bones.
The blood of the Lernean Hydra fused with
The Centaur's blood, giving no chance for aid.
Achilles, drenched in tears, stood before him as before
A father, just as he would have wept for Peleus dying.
Often he caressed the feeble fingers with loving hands,
(The teacher had his reward for the character he'd formed),
And he kissed him, often, and often, as he lay there, cried:
`Live, I beg you: don't leave me, dear father!'
The ninth day came, and you, virtuous Chiron,
Wrapped your body in those fourteen stars." - Ovid, Fasti V

"The author of the War of the Gigantomakhai says that Kronos took the
shape of a horse and lay with Philyra, the daughter of Okeanos.
Through this cause Kheiron was born a kentauros: his wife was
Khariklo." - Homerica, Titanomachia Fragment 6 (from Scholiast on
Apollonius Rhodius 1.554)

"Peloreus took up Pelion with hightowering peak as a missile in his
innumberable arms, and left the cave Philyre bare: as the rocky roof
of his cave was pulled off, old Kheiron quivered and shook, that
figure of half a man growing into a comrade horse." - Nonnus,
Dionysiaca 48.77

"By nightfall they [the Argonauts] were passing the Isle of Philyra
[at the eastern end of the southern Black Sea coast]. This was where
Kronos son of Ouranos, deceiving his consort Rhea, lay with Philyra
daughter of Okeanos in the days when he ruled the Titanes in Olympos
and Zeus was still a child, tended in the Kretan cave by the Kouretes
of Ida. But Kronos and Philyra were surprised in the very act by the
goddess Rhea. Whereupon Kronos leapt out of bed and galloped off in
the form of a long-maned stallion, while Philyra in her shame left the
place, deserting her old haunts, and came to the long Pelasgian
ridges. There she gave birth to the monstrous Kheiron, half horse and
half divine, the offspring of a lover in questionable shape." -
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 2.1231

"When Saturnus was hunting Jove throughout the earth, assuming the
form of a steed he lay with Philyra, daughter of Oceanus. By him she
bore Chiron the Centaur, who is said to have been the first to invent
the art of healing. After Philyra saw that she had borne a strange
species, she asked Jove to changed her into another form, and she was
transformed into the tree which is called the linden." - Hyginus,
Fabulae 138

"There is a Kentauros with only two of his legs those of a horse; his
forelegs are human. Next come two-horse chariots with women standing
in them. The horses have golden wings, and a man is giving armour to
one of the women. I conjecture that this scene refers to the death of
Patroklos; the women in the chariots, I take it, are Nereides, and
Thetis is receiving the armour from Hephaistos. And moreover, he who
is giving the armour is not strong upon his feet, and a slave follows
him behind, holding a pair of fire-tongs. An account also is given of
the Kentauros, that he is Khiron, freed by this time from human
affairs and held worthy to share the home of the gods, who has come to
assuage the grief of Akhilleus." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 5.19.8-9

"Herakles turned back the Kentauroi with a volley of fire-brands; he
sent arrows after the others and chased them as far as Malea. There
they took refuge with Kheiron, who, after the Lapiths had driven him
from Mount Pelion, settled on Malea. Herakles let loose an arrow at
the kentaroi as they huddled round Kheiron, which penetrated the arm
of Elatos and landed in Kheiron's knee. In horror Herakles ran to him,
pulled out the arrow and dressed the wound with a salve that Kheiron
handed him. The festering wound was incurable, however, and Kheiron
moved into his cave, where he yearned for death, but could not die
because he was immortal. Prometheus thereupon proposed Herakles to
Zeus, to become immortal in place of Kheiron: and so Kheiron died." -
Apollodorus, The Library 2.83-87

Kheiron (Chiron) was the eldest and wisest of the half-horse, half-man
Kentauroi but unlike the rest of the tribe he was an immortal rustic
god, a son of the Titan Kronos and a half-brother of Zeus. Kheiron
dwelt in a cave on Mount Pelion in Thessalia where he raised and
mentored many of the great heroes, including Jason, Peleus, Asklepios,
Aristaios and Akhilleus. He was once accidentally wounded by Herakles
with a Hydra-venom-coated arrow and unable to endure the pain
voluntarily relinquished his immortality and died. In recompense he
was given a place amongst the stars of heaven as the Constellation
Saggitarius, or some say Centaurus. Kheiron was usually depicted with
the full body of a man, from head to foot, robed and booted, with a
horse's body attached behind. This contrasted with the other Kentauroi
who were depicted without robes, and as fully equine below the waist.
According to some, he had two marine brothers, the Ikhthyokentauroi.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Homerica, Nonnus, Apollodorus Rhodius, Pausanius, Apollodorus,
Chiron (http://theoi.com/Georgikos/KentaurosKheiron.html)

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Just a reminder that the Comitia Centuriata is convened today for the
purpose of electing a new Censor to fill the term vacated by Gaius
Minucius Hadrianus Felix.

Voting shall commence as following:

6:00 PM, 3 May 06: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa: CENTURY 3 was
selected by the Diribitores. ONLY Century 3 shall vote between May 3
until My 5th.

6:00 PM, 5 May 06: Voting by all First Class centuries now permitted.
ONLY citizens of the FIRST CLASS centuries can vote.

6:00 PM, 8 May 06: Voting by all centuries now permitted. ANYONE can
vote at this time.

6:00 PM, 9 May 06: **Voting suspended in honor of the Lemuria.**

6:00 PM, 10 May 06: Voting by all centuries is resumed.

6:00 PM, 12 May 06: Voting is concluded.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

----

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

The Comitia Centuriata will assemble to vote for Censor to fill the
term of office vacated when former Censor Gaius Minucius Hadrianus
Felix resigned from office.

The Contio will begin at 2:00 PM, Roma time (Central European Time),
Today (28 April 06) and will last until 2:00 PM, Roma time, on 02 May
06. Voting will then commence according to this schedule:

6:00 PM, 3 May 06: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa *only* begins.

6:00 PM, 5 May 06: Voting by all First Class centuries now permitted.

6:00 PM, 8 May 06: Voting by all centuries now permitted.

6:00 PM, 9 May 06: **Voting suspended in honor of the Lemuria.**

6:00 PM, 10 May 06: Voting by all centuries is resumed.

6:00 PM, 12 May 06: Voting is concluded.

(Note: Time indicated is in Central European Time)

The necessary election officials shall provide reports of the progress
of the voting in accordance with the provisions of the LEX FABIA DE
RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM. During the Contio the diribitores
shall announce the Centuria Praerogativa.

There is currently one candidate for Censor: Marcus Octavius Germanicus.

For those people confused about time zone differences you can find a
time zone converter at:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

Avete omnes;

If I may reiterate some of the voting instructions?

Please remember that from 6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US
Time), 3 May 06 until 6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US
Time), 5 May 06, your Diribitors, can only receive and count ballots
from the Centuria Praerogativa, which is CENTURY 3.

Please go to the Album Civum and check your Century assignment.

Also, please remember that the Centuries from 1 - 15 *only* will vote
from 6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US Time), 5 May 06 until
6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US Time), 8 May 06.

Voting is open to all thereafter except on 9 - 10 May as noted by
Consul Modianus.

Thank you all, and please DO vote when your Century's turn comes about!

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Diribitor

C. Equitius Cato C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

> Just a reminder that the Comitia Centuriata is convened today for the
> purpose of electing a new Censor to fill the term vacated by Gaius
> Minucius Hadrianus Felix.

Just a reminder: today is a dies fastus. According to even our own
Nova Roman "WIKI" entry, the Roman calendar:

"magistrates may not hold a meeting of the comitia tributa, concilium
plebis, or comitia centuriata."

so in the face we are presenting to the public, we do not allow for
the comitia centuriata to be convened on a dies fastus --- yet here we
are convening the comitia centuriata on a dies fastus. I am *not*
criticizing the consul, or anybody for that matter, but we have got to
start getting our stories straight if we intend to project any kind of
credibility to the "outside" world.

Vale et valete bene,

Cato

Q. Caecilius Metellus C. Equitio Catoni Omnibus sal.

> Just a reminder: today is a dies fastus. According to even
> our own Nova Roman "WIKI" entry, the Roman calendar:
>
> "magistrates may not hold a meeting of the comitia tributa,
> concilium plebis, or comitia centuriata."
>
> so in the face we are presenting to the public, we do not
> allow for the comitia centuriata to be convened on a dies
> fastus --- yet here we are convening the comitia centuriata
> on a dies fastus. I am *not* criticizing the consul, or
> anybody for that matter, but we have got to start getting our
> stories straight if we intend to project any kind of
> credibility to the "outside" world.

This is a good point to bring to the Forum. The simple fact of the matter
is that we have a lot of conflicting information, not only here within Nova
Roma, but also in the greater scholastic world (not necessarily on this
point). One of the jobs of any scholar, as I know you well know, is to take
that conflicting information and somehow make it work together, or determine
why it is conflicting and come to an educated conclusion, usually with the
help of outside sources.

In Nova Roma, we have had the problem, for years now and it will probably be
a problem in the future as well, of having conflicting information. In some
instances, it is simply a matter of the temporal nature of the text -- what
may have been true in the Republic was not necessarily so in the Imperial
age, and vice versa. Sometimes it will be easy to make the distinction
necessary to reconcile the conflict, and other times (for a variety of
reasons, a lack of additional information being one) it may take quite a bit
of time, effort, and digging (figuratively and literally).

In our case, then, we have what will be an ongoing process of resolving
conflicting information. For the short term, that resolution may be easy in
cases where the conflict does not exist, but in the long term, we may find
that the conclusions we have made on various different issues is entirely
wrong, as proven by information which then becomes available.

So for now, we can only continue to do our best, and hope that we are doing
thing right. And when we are not, and we find out that we are not, then we
can only do our best to rectify the situation. But I don't think I've said
anything that hasn't been thought before, or brought into this Forum.

Ducat et doceat nos Minerua!

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus C. Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

"I am *not* criticizing the consul, or anybody for that matter, but we
have got to start getting our stories straight if we intend to project
any kind of credibility to the "outside" world."

Agreed. Getting our credibility straight is a good thing. Metellus
addressed this already, so I see no reason to.

However, the Comitia IS convened and things shall progress as I
indicated previously. I presented my schedule to my Cohors, and I
have two Pontifices within my Cohors. One responded that my schedule
was acceptable and the other did not respond, so I assume silence
equals acceptance.

Additionally, if the Tribunes wanted to veto my Comitia call they were
more than welcome to do so within the Contio period.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 5/3/06, gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
> C. Equitius Cato C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salve et salvete.
>
> > Just a reminder that the Comitia Centuriata is convened today for the
> > purpose of electing a new Censor to fill the term vacated by Gaius
> > Minucius Hadrianus Felix.
>
>
> Just a reminder: today is a dies fastus. According to even our own
> Nova Roman "WIKI" entry, the Roman calendar:
>
> "magistrates may not hold a meeting of the comitia tributa, concilium
> plebis, or comitia centuriata."
>
> so in the face we are presenting to the public, we do not allow for
> the comitia centuriata to be convened on a dies fastus --- yet here we
> are convening the comitia centuriata on a dies fastus. I am *not*
> criticizing the consul, or anybody for that matter, but we have got to
> start getting our stories straight if we intend to project any kind of
> credibility to the "outside" world.
>
> Vale et valete bene,
>
> Cato

C. Equitius Cato Q. Caecilio Metello quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Point taken, pontiff, and I know that the consul, in convening the
comitia centuriata, is working to address a pressing issue: the
absence of a censor.

What I might suggest, then, is that until our pontiffs actually make a
decision regarding these non-comitial days, the information should not
be presented on the "Wiki" site. It may *look* good to have such
definitive statements there, but unless we are actually *following*
them then we are creating an unnecessary contradiction.

Since the "Wiki" site is devoted to *our* Republic, not the ancient
one, it should reflect the actions of our Republic. This perhaps is
one reason that Domitius Fuscus, when the "Wiki" site was first
presented to the People, mentioned that it might be wise to have
official governmental oversight on some level; this kind of
contradiction could be avoided.

Vale et valete bene,

Cato

Salvete Omnes,

Again just a reminder!

Please remember that from 6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US
Time), 3 May 06 until 6:00 PM (Rome time, being Noon Eastern US
Time), 5 May 06, your Diribitors, can only receive and count ballots
from the Centuria Praerogativa, which is *"CENTURY 3"*.

Quintus Servilius Priscus
Diribitor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IV Nonas Maius; haec dies comitialis est.


"And why not admit that Fortune also retrieved the city in times of
the greatest danger? When [390 BC] the Gauls were encamped round about
the Capitol and were besieging the citadel,

'Baneful the plague that she brought on the host, and the people were
dying.' [Homer, Iliad i.10]

And as for the Gauls' nocturnal assault, though they were noticed by
none, yet Fortune and Chance brought about the discovery. Concerning
this assault of the Gauls it will perhaps not be unseasonable to give
some additional details, however briefly. After the great defeat of
the Romans at the river Allia, some in their flight found a haven in
Rome and filled the people with consternation and terror, and caused
them to scatter far and wide, although a few went to the Capitol and
prepared to stand a siege. Others, immediately after their defeat,
gathered together at Veii and appointed as dictator Furius Camillus,
whom the people in their prosperity and lofty pride had rejected and
deposed because he had become involved in a suit concerning the
appropriation of public property. But now, cowed and humbled after
their defeat, they were for recalling him, and offered to hand over to
him the supreme command, accountable to no one. Accordingly, that he
might not be thought to be obtaining office because of the crisis, but
in accordance with the law, and that he should not, as if he had given
up all hope for the city, be elected by soldiery in a canvass of the
remnants of the army, now scattered and wandering, it was necessary
that the senators on the Capitoline should vote upon the matter after
they had been informed of the decision of the soldiers. Now there was
a certain Gaius Pontius, a brave man, who, by volunteering personally
to report these resolutions to Senate on the Capitol, took upon
himself great danger. For the way led through the midst of the enemy,
who encompassed the citadel with sentries and palisades. When,
accordingly, he had come by night to the river, he bound broad strips
of cork beneath his breast and, entrusting his body to the buoyancy of
this support, committed himself to the stream. Encountering a gentle
current which bore him slowly down stream, he reached the opposite
bank in safety, and, climbing out of the river, advanced toward the
senate void of lights, inferring from the darkness and quiet that no
one was there. Clinging to the precipitous cliff and entrusting
himself to the support of sloping and circuitous ways and jagged
surfaces of the rock which would allow a foothold or afford a clutch
for his hand, he reached the top of the rock; he was received by the
sentries, and made known to those within the decision of the army,
band having obtained the decree of the Senate, he returned again to
Camillus.

The next day one of the barbarians was wandering idly about this
place, when he saw in one spot prints of feet and marks of slipping,
and in another the bruising and tearing off of the grass, which grew
on the earth of the cliff, and marks of the zigzag dragging and
pulling up of a body; and this he told to the others. They, thinking
that the way was pointed out to them by their enemies, attempted to
rival them; and waiting till the very dead of night, they made the
ascent, unnoticed not only by the sentinels, but also by the dogs
which shared guard duty and formed the outpost, but then were overcome
by sleep.

Rome's Fortune, however, did not lack a voice capable of revealing and
declaring such a great mischance. Sacred geese were kept near the
temple of Juno for the service of the goddess. Now by nature this bird
is easily disturbed and frightened by noise; and at this time, since
they were neglected, because dire want oppressed the garrison, their
sleep was light, and was made uncomfortable by hunger, with the result
that they were at once aware of the enemy as they showed themselves
above the edge of the cliff. The geese hissed at them and rushed at
them impetuously, and at the sight of arms, became even more excited,
and filled the place with piercing and discordant clamour. By this
the Romans were aroused, and, when they comprehended what had
happened, they forced back their enemies and hurled them over the
precipice. And even to this day, in memory of these events, there are
borne in solemn procession a dog impaled on a stake, but a goose
perched in state upon a costly coverlet in a litter." - Plutarch, "On
the Fortunes of The Romans" 11, 12

"While those who had taken refuge on the Capitol were still being
besieged, a youth who had been sent by the Romans from Veii to those
on the Capitol and had escaped the notice of the Gauls who were on
guard there, went up, delivered his message, and departed again by
night. When it was day, one of the Gauls saw his tracks and reported
it to the king, who called together the bravest of his men and showed
them where the Roman had gone up, then asked them to display the same
bravery as the Roman and attempt to ascend to the citadel, promising
many gifts to those who should make the ascent. When many undertook to
do so, he commanded the guards to remain quiet, in order that the
Romans, supposing them to be asleep, might themselves turn to sleep.
When the first men had now ascended and were waiting for those who
lagged behind, in order that when their numbers were increased they
might then slay the garrison and capture the stronghold, no mortal
became aware of it; but some sacred geese of Juno which were being
raised in the sanctuary, by making a clamour and at the same time
rushing at the barbarians, gave notice of the peril. Thereupon there
was confusion, shouting and rushing about on the part of all as they
encouraged one another to take up arms; and the Gauls, whose numbers
were now increased, advanced further inside." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" XIII.7

"While the Romans were in such throes, the neighbouring Tyrrhenians
advanced and made a raid with a strong army on the territory of the
Romans, capturing many prisoners and not a small amount of booty. But
the Romans who had fled to Veii, falling unexpectedly upon the
Tyrrhenians, put them to flight, took back the booty, and captured
their camp. Having got possession of arms in abundance, they
distributed them among the unarmed, and they also gathered men from
the countryside and armed them, since they intended to relieve the
siege of the soldiers who had taken refuge on the Capitoline. While
they were at a loss how they might reveal their plans to the besieged,
since the Celts had surrounded them with strong forces, a certain
Cominius Pontius undertook to get the cheerful news to the men on the
Capitoline. Starting out alone and swimming the river by night, he
got unseen to a cliff of the Capitoline that was hard to climb and,
hauling himself up it with difficulty, told the soldiers on the
Capitoline about the troops that had been collected in Veii and how
they were watching for an opportunity and would attack the Celts.
Then, descending by the way he had mounted and swimming the Tiber, he
returned to Veii. The Celts, when they observed the tracks of one who
had recently climbed up, made plans to ascend at night by the same
cliff. Consequently about the middle of the night, while the guards
were neglectful of their watch because of the strength of the place,
some Celts started an ascent of the cliff. They escaped detection by
the guards, but the sacred geese of Hera, which were kept there,
noticed the climbers and set up a cackling. The guards rushed to the
place and the Celts deterred did not dare proceed farther. A certain
Marcus Mallius, a man held in high esteem, rushing to the defence of
the place, cut off the hand of the climber with his sword and,
striking him on the breast with his shield, rolled him from the cliff.
In like manner the second climber met his death, whereupon the rest
all quickly turned in flight. But since the cliff was precipitous they
were all hurled headlong and perished. As a result of this, when the
Romans sent ambassadors to negotiate a peace, they were persuaded,
upon receipt of one thousand pounds of gold, to leave the city and to
withdraw from Roman territory." - Diodorus Siculus, The Library
14.CXVI.1-7

Today is not the anniversary of the story of the sacred geese. I just
like the story and it's an otherwise relatively quiet day in Roman
history.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Plutarch, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Diodorus Siculus

Salve Omnes,

For Groups that I own and moderate (all outside Nova Roma) I allow
people to join, post messages, links photos and polls freely. I
really do not want to or have time to read every post to approve it
and most people are not spammers. I can only check my groups from
time to time so I like to let them 'grow organically'. When I check
in if I see any spammers I ban them. When a otherwise good
member 'approches or crosses the line' I will warn them and that is
usually enough. Insane or problem people that I have to ban are
very rare. Though it seems laissez-fair I maintain clean and
reasonably on topic groups where freedom of expression is fairly
broad and most anyone interested in the topic finds a welcoming
atmosphere.

Vele bene,
C. Domititius Cato

but that works

> > only if the moderator is paying attention to the list. If there

is only one

> > moderator, as is the case with Virtutis, and membership approval

is required,

> > as is the case on some lists, you will not be able to join the

list unless the

> > moderator is paying attention; due to the number of complaints

about this

> > recently, it seems that the moderator has not been moderating

this list

> > actively, and membership approval is difficult to impossible;

indeed, current

> > newer members on moderation cannot post because no one is

approving their

> > messages. Moderation and/or membership approval are essential

to keep

> > spammers out, but this assumes that someone is actively

moderating a list,

> > which does not appear to be the case with some of our groups,

including

> > Virtutis.

Salve Gai Domiti,

I'm pleased that your technique works for your groups. Things are
different here.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Gaius Domitius Cato wrote:

> Salve Omnes,
>
> For Groups that I own and moderate (all outside Nova Roma) I allow
> people to join, post messages, links photos and polls freely. I
> really do not want to or have time to read every post to approve it
> and most people are not spammers. I can only check my groups from
> time to time so I like to let them 'grow organically'. When I check
> in if I see any spammers I ban them. When a otherwise good
> member 'approches or crosses the line' I will warn them and that is
> usually enough. Insane or problem people that I have to ban are
> very rare. Though it seems laissez-fair I maintain clean and
> reasonably on topic groups where freedom of expression is fairly
> broad and most anyone interested in the topic finds a welcoming
> atmosphere.
>
> Vele bene,
> C. Domititius Cato

Avete Omnes;

Ballot number 10250 [(Thu May 4 13:28:10 2006) GMT]

The Voter code TCF194 was not found in the database, thusly neither
Social Class nor Century were found.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Diribitor

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem III Nonas Maius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Curved Lyra would follow Centaurus, but the path's
Not clear: the third night will be the right time." - Ovid, Fasti V

"Their queen herself [Kalliope] sinks her head upon the silent lyre,
as when after Orpheus' loss she halted by thy stream, O Hebrus, and
gazed at the troops of beasts that listened no more, and the woods
that moved not since the strains were gone." - Statius, Silvae 5.3.15

"The first images of the Mousai [the Muses] are of them all, from the
hand of Kephisodotos, while a little farther on are three, also from
the hand of Kephisodotos, and three more by Strongylion...the
remaining three were made by Olympiosthenes...by the side of Orpheus
stands a statue of Telete, and around him are beasts of stone and
bronze listening to his singing...Orpheus was a son of the Mousa
Kalliope...the beasts followed him fascinated by his songs, and that
he went down alive to Hades to ask for his wife from the gods below."
- Pausanias, Guide to Greece 9.30.1

"Orpheus, borne, so the story goes, by Kalliope herself to her
Thrakian lover Oiagros near the heights of Pimplea. They say that with
the music of his voice he enchanted stubborn mountain rocks and
rushing streams." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 1.24

"Lyre: Orpheus, son of Calliope and Oeagrus...When Orpheus was taking
delight in song, seated, as many say, on Mount Olympus...Liber
[Dionysos] is said to have roused the Bacchanals against him. They
slew him and dismembered his body. But others say that this happened
because he had looked on the rites of Liber. The Musae gathered the
scattered limbs and gave them burial, and as the greatest favour they
could confer, they put as a memorial his lyre, pictured with stars,
among the constellations. Apollo and Jove consented, for Orpheus had
praised Apollo highly, and Jupiter granted this favour to his
daughter." - Hyginus, Astronomica 2.7

Older maps of the sky show a bird, especially a vulture (Vultur
cadens), in this position, since in early times the constellation and
its stars, were taken to resemble one. As such, together with other
constellations in the Zodiacal sign of Sagittarius (specifically,
Cygnus, Aquila and Sagittarius itself), Lyra may be a significant part
of the origin of the myth of the Stymphalian Birds, one of The Twelve
Labors of Herakles.

By taking into account nearly parallel lines of fainter stars in the
centre of the constellation, it appears to resemble a lyre, and
consequently Lyra gradually shifted from being considered a vulture to
being considered a lyre; for a while, it was even regarded as a
vulture holding a lyre. Associated with its identity as a lyre, Lyra
was considered to be the lyre used by Orpheus to produce music that
charmed even Hades, and which was placed into the stars upon his
death. Orpheus was the son of the god Apollo and the Muse Calliope.
He was presented by his father with a Lyre and taught to play upon it,
which he did to such perfection that nothing could withstand the charm
of his music. Not only his fellow-mortals but wild beasts were
softened by his strains, and gathering round him laid by their
fierceness, and stood entranced with his music.

When his wife Euridice died, he determined to bring her back from
Hades, the Underword. Using his musical talents, he charmed his way
past Cerberus, the three-headed watch dog. Charon, the boat-man of the
Styx ferried Orpheus across the river free of charge. Even Hades cried
iron tears who granted Orpheus' plea that he be allowed to take
Eurydice back with him, provided that he promise not to look at her
until they reached home. Orpheus played and sang while Eurydice
followed but overcome with fear he turned back to see if she was
there. She was. Instantly faded away to become once again only a
shade. When Orpheus tried to re-enter Hades, his way was barred. He
returned to Thrace and served in the temple of Apollo. He soon met his
death. He was torn to pieces either by local maidens or raging Maenads
following Dionysus. They threw his head in the Hebrus river. Calliope,
a muse and his mother, took the pieces of Orpheus' body and buried
them at the foot of Mt. Olympus.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Hyginus, Apollodorus Rhodius, Statius, Pausanias, Bullfinch's
"Mythology"

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Senatus Populesque S.P.D.

The results of the recent election in the Comitia Centuriata and the Comitia Populi Tributa have been certified by the Custodes and I report the results as follows:

In the case of elections on legislation, both comitia define a majority as 1/2 the tribes or centuries voting , repectively, plus one, with fractions being rounded down.

In the case of magisterial candidates, the votes are approached differently, but the point is rather academic in this case, as our candidate presented himself uncontested and has no contest from the people save three abstaining tribes.

You may read further on the procedures from these links:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-i.html
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-12-02-i.html




In the Comitia Centuriata,
with 31 of 51 Centuries casting ballots voting on,
the Lex Minucia Moravia Eiuratione Magistratus,
Pass - 15 -- Fail - 15 -- Abstain - 1

Number of Centuries in favour required to pass: 16
This measure FAILS

*****



In the Comitia Populi Tributa,
with 29 of 35 Tribes voting on,
for Editor Commentariorum: Titus Marcius Felix: Titus Marcius Felix
Pass - 26 -- Fail - 0 -- Abstain - 3

Titus Marcius Felix is ELECTED Editor Commentarorum 2759 AUC. CONGRATULATIONS.


Lex Minucia Moravia de Civitate Eiuranda
Pass - 20 -- Fail - 8 -- Abstain - 1
Number of Tribes required in favour to pass: 15
This measure PASSES .


Lex Minucia Moravia Eiuratione Magistratum
Pass - 19-- Fail - 10 -- Abstain - 0
Number of Tribes required in favour to pass: 15
This measure PASSES.

Request to repeal Lex Arminia Equitia Dignite Curule et
Lex Arminia Equitia de Sanctite
Pass - 15 -- Fail - 11 -- Abstain - 3
Number of Tribes required in favour to pass: 15
This measure PASSES.

Note: For those who are uncomfortable with the last measure, and this was sure close, please be assured that I recognize the academic and historical importance of same, and I won't get into explanations regarding this proposal again, as I have already during the contio periods.

I have no intention of putting these through the papershredder.... no way. They will be treated with the reverence they deserve as they are quite historically based and well-intentioned. My impression is that they were intended to be part of another set of laws which were never developed or plans were frustrated along the way. ??

These will be placed in a separate file, so they may be referenced in future when we more clearly define, most appropriately in the constitution, those specific magistratures possessing curule dignity/sanctity and the authorities, roles, powers, privileges of those assigned these designations. The constitution is our highest ruling document in Nova Roma, 'limiting' authority'. And to date, it is silent on the issue of curule dignity, sanctity.

********

My thanks to the people for their attention in this vote; my thanks to Tribune M. Moravius Horatianus Piscinus Tribunis Plebis for his partnership and counsel in these promulgations, and to my colleague G. Fabius Buteo Modianus for his counsel, to the Diribitores and Custodes, my many thanks also.





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pompeia Minucia Strabo s.p.d.

I forgot to thank the webmaster, whom I am convinced is the most patient man in the entire republic. Quinte Valeri Callide, thanks ! :>)

Valete


---------------------------------
Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete,
Pompeia Minucia Strabo s.p.d.

I forgot to thank the webmaster, whom I am convinced is the most patient man
in the entire republic. Quinte Valeri Callide, thanks ! :>)
It is simply my honor to serve.

Gratias vobis ago valeteque!
Quintus Valerius Callidus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus sal.

Salvete, Amici.

(A few Latin notes from the beginning, if I may. The singular and plural
nominative for the word 'day' is "dies". For the calendrical designations,
they are (abbreviation, singular, plural):

F, fastus, fasti
C, comitialis, comitiales
N, nefastus, nefasti
NP, nefastus publicus, nefasti publici
EN, endotercisus, endotercisi
*FP, fastus principio, fasti principio
*FP, fastus publicus, fasti publici

[I've left out QRCF and QSDF because there effectively is no plural for these.
The 'est' is understood, as would be 'sunt'.]
I know some of our more involved Latinists most certainly have been cringing
throughout our discussion, so I hope this clears up any confusion or
misunderstanding.)

As we've been discussing the issue of the use of dies fasti, I've been trying
to re-check all my references for the calendar. One of the more commonly used
sources is A.K. Michels' _The Calendar of the Roman Republic_. Michels
discusses at some legnth the relationship between dies fasti and dies
comitiales, and I thought something she writes would be particularly
applicable for our conversation.

Michels states,

[For emphasis, I'll add asterisks (*) before and after the emphasised phrase.
Similarly, I'll add translations in brackets. -- QCM]

"Modern authorities often state that dies comitiales are a sub-class of dies
fasti, so that the latter name could correctly be applied to both groups. The
sometimes even employ the term /dies fasti non comitiales/ to refer to the
smaller class. *There is no ancient authority for this term* and it crept
into the literature by way of modern commentaries written in Latin. As far as
the period of the late republic is concerned, there is no evidence that the
Romans thought of dies fasti and dies comitiales as anything but two perfectly
distinct types of day....

"In the preceding discussion I have defined dies fasti, purely in terms of
their function in the late republic, as those days on which legis actio was
permitted. I have not considered the actual meaning of the word /fastus/,
which must have applied to calendar days in a much earlier period, when dies
comitiales had not be seperated out from the original body of dies fasti....
To a Roman /fas/ describes an action which is permitted or should be
performed, and /nefas/ is the opposite. /Quidquid non licet, nefas putare
debemus/ [Whatever is not allowed, we ought to think /nefas/] (Cicero,
Paradoxa 3.25).... When we read that Aelius Gallus said that to take legal
action before the praetor on a dies nefastus was to act /contra voluntatem
deorum/ [against the will of the Gods], we can say 'Ah, yes, a religious
tabu.' But in a religious system which has no revelaed code, such as the law
of Moses, the will of the gods must be determined by man.... Since the
calendar was the charge of the pontifices, it must have been they who
determined the characters of the days. We can then give a very prosaic
definition of dies fastus as a day which the /auctoritas pontificum/ has
opened to certain activities. All our evidence goes to show that these
activities involved a public gathering before a magistrate, either in court,
or, before dies comitiales were seperated from dies fasti, in the comitia....

"I would then define dies fasti as those days on which the pontifices
permitted the praetor urbanus to lear legis actiones, and in the early period
allowed magistrates to summon comitia...."

It could very well be that some of our earlier magistrates were working on
this premise, so far as it concerns the early period, which is why we now have
the precedent of magistrates summoning comitia on dies fasti and dies
comitiales.

In any case, that was a rather long-winded way to get to my question to you.

In deliberating this in chambers, one thing that will obviously have to come
up is whether, at least in this instance, the older custom should be followed
or the later one. So I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the
matter.

Okay, it's not a question, but it's something for discussion.

an article in last week's Sunday Times

Spain destroys lost Roman city for a car parkJon Clarke in Malaga
THE archeologists could barely hide their excitement. Beneath the main
square of Ecija, a small town in southern Spain, they had unearthed an
astounding treasure trove of Roman history.

They discovered a well-preserved Roman forum, bath house, gymnasium and
temple as well as dozens of private homes and hundreds of mosaics and
statues � one of them considered to be among the finest found.

But now the bulldozers have moved in. The last vestiges of the lost city
known as Colonia Augusta Firma Astigi � one of the great cities of the Roman
world � have been destroyed to build an underground municipal car park.

Dr Sonia Zakrzewski, a senior lecturer in archeology at Southampton
University who has worked on the site, said: "It is a real shock when things
like this happen. I am surprised it has gone ahead. There is no doubt this
site is of fundamental importance to archeology."

Much of the site has been hurriedly concreted over: the only minor
concession to archeologists and historians, is to leave a tiny section on
show for tourists. The rest will be space for 299 cars.

The Roman city has proved to be one of the biggest in the ancient world. Its
estimated 30,000 citizens dominated the olive oil industry. Terracotta urns
from Ecija have been discovered as far away as Britain and Rome.

The region produced three Roman emperors � Trajan, Theodosius and Hadrian �
and the research has shown that Ecija was almost as important in the Roman
world as Cordoba and Seville.

The socialist council says that had it not dug up the main square, Plaza de
Espana, to build the car park in 1998, the remains would never have been
found. But it insists the town must press ahead with the new car park.

"Nonsense," says the town's chief archeologist, Antonio Fernandez Ugalde,
director of the municipal museum. "For some reason, the politicians here
think it is more important to park their own cars. It simply does not make
sense."

But despite opposition from numerous other archeological groups and the
Spanish Royal Academy of Art, there is now no possibility of restoring the
2,000-year-old Roman town.

The most exquisite discovery was a statue, known as the Wounded Amazon,
modelled on an ancient Greek goddess of war. Only three other such statues
are known to exist. The one in Ecija is in by far the best condition with
some of its original decorative paint intact.

Juan Wic, the mayor, who is responsible for the car park project, said he
was happy to have kept one of his main election pledges. He said it was
"essential for the commercial future of the square and city".
Merula

--
Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est pridie Nonas Maius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Scorpio's mid-part will be visible in the sky
When we speak of the Nones dawning tomorrow." - Ovid, Fasti V

"Hesiod says that ... Orion went away to Krete and spent his time
hunting in company with Artemis and Leto. It seems that he threatened
to kill every beast there was on earth; whereupon, in her anger, Ge
(the Earth) sent up against him a Scorpion of very great size by which
he was stung and so perished. After this Zeus, at the prayer of
Artemis and Leto, put him among the stars, because of his manliness,
and the Scorpion also as a memorial of him and of what had occurred."
- Hesiod, The Astronomy Fragment 4 (from Pseudo-Eratosthenes
Catasterismi Fragment 32)

"Scorpio: This sign is divided into two parts on account of the great
spread of the claws. One part of it our writers have called the
Balance (Libra). But the whole was put in the sky, its is said, for
the following reason: Orion, since he used to hunt, and felt confident
that he was most skilled of all in that pursuit, said even to Diana
and Latona that he was able to kill anything the earth produced.
Tellus, angered at this, sent the Scorpion which is said to have
killed him. Jove, however, admiring the courage of both, put the
Scorpion among the stars, as a lesson to men not to be too
self-confident. Diana, then, because of her affection for Orion, asked
Jove to show to her request the same favour he had given of his own
accord to Tellus. And so the constellation was established in such a
way that when Scorpion rises, Orion sets." - Hyginus, Astronomica 2.26

"Artemis slew Orion on Delos. He was said to be a Gigas of massive
proportions born of Ge, but Pherekdes says that his parents were
Poseidon and Euryale. From Poseidon he was given the power of walking
across the sea. His first wife was Side, who for vying with Hera in
shapeliness was thrown by her into Haides' realm. After that Orion
went to Khios where he courted Oinopion's daughter Merope. Oinopion,
however, got him drunk, and, as he slept, blinded him and tossed him
out on the beach. He made his way to the bronze workshop of
Hephaistos, where he seized a boy, set him on his shoulders, and
ordered him to guide him toward the east. Once there, he looked up and
was completely healed by the rays of Helios (the Sun). Immediately he
started back to confront Oinopion. But Poseidon had provided Oinopion
with a house beneath the earth, built by Hephaistos. Meanwhile, Eos,
whom Aphrodite taunted with constant passion as punishment for
sleeping with Ares, fell in love with Orion and took him off with her
to Delos. There he was killed, according to some, for challenging
Artemis to a discus match. Others say that Artemis shot him as he was
forcing his attention on Opis, a virgin who had come from the
Hyperboreans." - Apollodorus, The Library 1.25

In very ancient astrology - Egyptian, Chaldean and Hebrew - Scorpio
was represented not by the familiar scorpion, but by the serpent.
This is a profound symbol which tells us a lot about Scorpio.
Firstly, the serpent sheds his skin cynically, and was thought by the
ancients to be immortal and capable of constant self-renewal. Now
this pattern of outgrowing a skin, sloughing it and growing a new one
runs through Scorpio's life. Often his life breaks up into distinct
chapters, as he moves through one cycle after another. All come to
ultimate destruction. Then he rebuilds and starts again.

According to Greek mythology, it corresponds to the scorpion which was
sent by Gaia (or possibly the goddess Hera) to kill the hunter Orion,
the scorpion rising out of the ground at the goddess' command to
attack. Although the scorpion and Orion appear together in this myth,
the constellation of Orion is almost opposite to Scorpius in the night
sky. It has been suggested that this was a divine precaution to
forestall the heavenly continuation of the feud.

In many versions, however, Apollo sent the scorpion after Orion,
having grown jealous of Artemis' attentions to the man. Some
variations of this myth say that it succeeded, others say that Orion
tried to escape by swimming out to sea only to be accidentally shot by
Artemis, the goddess of the hunt and Apollo's sister. Artemis, who
unsurprisingly, was very attracted to Orion, had fired her arrow in an
attempt to kill the scorpion that was attacking Orion. Being a
magnificent shot, she struck the black head that she saw bobbing in
the water with her first arrow. Of course, the black object she fired
upon was NOT the scorpion, but Orion himself. Later, to apologize for
killing his friend, Apollo then helped Artemis hang Orion's image in
the night sky. However, the scorpion was also placed up there, and
every time it appears on the horizon, Orion starts to sink into the
other side of the sky, still running from the attacker.

Scorpius also appears in one version of the story of Phaethon, the
mortal son of Helios, the sun. Phaeton asked to drive the sun-chariot
for a day. Phaeton lost control of the chariot. The horses, already
out of control, were scared by the great celestial scorpion with its
sting raised to strike, and the inexperienced boy lost control of the
chariot, as the sun wildly went about the sky (this is said to have
formed the constellation Eridanus). Finally, Zeus struck him down with
a thunderbolt to stop the rampage.

At the heart of the Scorpion lies the star Antares - meaning
"anti-Mars", so called because you can easily confuse this reddish
star with the planet Mars which is currently situated just beneath the
constellation, fortunately shining much brighter than Antares.
Antares, a red supergiant, is 520 light-years away from us and is
9,000 times more luminous than our Sun! It is not very dense however
and has a mass of only 10 to 15 times that of the Sun.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Hesiod, Hyginus, Apollodorus, Wikipedia

Salvete omnes,

A question for our European citizens: Isn't the EU supposed to have
some authority to preserve sites like this? I appreciate the need for
parking space (and I say that in all seriousness, living as I do in a
place that doesn't have enough of it.) But still...

-- Marinus

Kirsteen Wright wrote:

> an article in last week's Sunday Times
>
> Spain destroys lost Roman city for a car parkJon Clarke in Malaga
> THE archeologists could barely hide their excitement. Beneath the main
> square of Ecija, a small town in southern Spain, they had unearthed an
> astounding treasure trove of Roman history.
>
> They discovered a well-preserved Roman forum, bath house, gymnasium and
> temple as well as dozens of private homes and hundreds of mosaics and
> statues — one of them considered to be among the finest found.
>
> But now the bulldozers have moved in. The last vestiges of the lost city
> known as Colonia Augusta Firma Astigi — one of the great cities of the Roman
> world — have been destroyed to build an underground municipal car park.
>
> Dr Sonia Zakrzewski, a senior lecturer in archeology at Southampton
> University who has worked on the site, said: "It is a real shock when things
> like this happen. I am surprised it has gone ahead. There is no doubt this
> site is of fundamental importance to archeology."
>
> Much of the site has been hurriedly concreted over: the only minor
> concession to archeologists and historians, is to leave a tiny section on
> show for tourists. The rest will be space for 299 cars.
>
> The Roman city has proved to be one of the biggest in the ancient world. Its
> estimated 30,000 citizens dominated the olive oil industry. Terracotta urns
> from Ecija have been discovered as far away as Britain and Rome.
>
> The region produced three Roman emperors — Trajan, Theodosius and Hadrian —
> and the research has shown that Ecija was almost as important in the Roman
> world as Cordoba and Seville.
>
> The socialist council says that had it not dug up the main square, Plaza de
> Espana, to build the car park in 1998, the remains would never have been
> found. But it insists the town must press ahead with the new car park.
>
> "Nonsense," says the town's chief archeologist, Antonio Fernandez Ugalde,
> director of the municipal museum. "For some reason, the politicians here
> think it is more important to park their own cars. It simply does not make
> sense."
>
> But despite opposition from numerous other archeological groups and the
> Spanish Royal Academy of Art, there is now no possibility of restoring the
> 2,000-year-old Roman town.
>
> The most exquisite discovery was a statue, known as the Wounded Amazon,
> modelled on an ancient Greek goddess of war. Only three other such statues
> are known to exist. The one in Ecija is in by far the best condition with
> some of its original decorative paint intact.
>
> Juan Wic, the mayor, who is responsible for the car park project, said he
> was happy to have kept one of his main election pledges. He said it was
> "essential for the commercial future of the square and city".
> Merula

Salve Domiti Cato et Equiti Marine!

I am all in favour of responsible moderation however I find few things as frustrating as posting to groups which are not being properly attended to. Here we are trying to get people involved while there are groups within the NR "family" where any new members just have their posts returned unchecked time after time regardless of content. In this context they never come off moderation no matter how long they hang around. A person writes something because they have something to contribute or a question to ask. This, after all, is what groups and lists are primarily for. Domitius' method may be a little risky but at least it functions.

Vale

Caius Moravius Brutus


PRAETORS NOTE: "responsible moderation" is the only kind of moderation given by this years Praetors and their repsective staffs.

I am on the computer at differnt times of the day depending on what is going on in school and at home. Every post to the mainlist is approved by the staff of one of the Praetors or by the Praetors themselfs . VERY few have to wait very long to be posted if the person is on moderation. The Praetorian staffs are very good and very attentive to their duties.

This statement "posts returned unchecked time after time regardless of content" is in my OPINION without merit.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor







Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
Salve Gai Domiti,

I'm pleased that your technique works for your groups. Things are
different here.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Gaius Domitius Cato wrote:

> Salve Omnes,
>
> For Groups that I own and moderate (all outside Nova Roma) I allow
> people to join, post messages, links photos and polls freely. I
> really do not want to or have time to read every post to approve it
> and most people are not spammers. I can only check my groups from
> time to time so I like to let them 'grow organically'. When I check
> in if I see any spammers I ban them. When a otherwise good
> member 'approches or crosses the line' I will warn them and that is
> usually enough. Insane or problem people that I have to ban are
> very rare. Though it seems laissez-fair I maintain clean and
> reasonably on topic groups where freedom of expression is fairly
> broad and most anyone interested in the topic finds a welcoming
> atmosphere.
>
> Vele bene,
> C. Domititius Cato

SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history Citizenship test

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

This is so sad. What lack of vision those politicans have. They could have had far more revenue from tourists coming from far and wide to see this new fine and used that money to build as many parking lots as they wanted to elsewhere.
Some years ago, they were also doing some construction work in Mexico City when they stumbled onto the remains of an old temple. All work was immediately halted and the city officials decided to continue the construction but in a different way. It went around the temple, literally incorporating it into the new structures, leaving the ruins intact for future study and all those tourists that have since flocked to see it. That's proof that there is always a way to preserve ancient sites and still have the modern conveniences we all want. Maybe the officials in Mexico City should have a talk with the guys in Spain.

Vale bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina


Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
an article in last week's Sunday Times

Spain destroys lost Roman city for a car parkJon Clarke in Malaga
THE archeologists could barely hide their excitement. Beneath the main
square of Ecija, a small town in southern Spain, they had unearthed an
astounding treasure trove of Roman history.

They discovered a well-preserved Roman forum, bath house, gymnasium and
temple as well as dozens of private homes and hundreds of mosaics and
statues — one of them considered to be among the finest found.

But now the bulldozers have moved in. The last vestiges of the lost city
known as Colonia Augusta Firma Astigi — one of the great cities of the Roman
world — have been destroyed to build an underground municipal car park.

Dr Sonia Zakrzewski, a senior lecturer in archeology at Southampton
University who has worked on the site, said: "It is a real shock when things
like this happen. I am surprised it has gone ahead. There is no doubt this
site is of fundamental importance to archeology."

Much of the site has been hurriedly concreted over: the only minor
concession to archeologists and historians, is to leave a tiny section on
show for tourists. The rest will be space for 299 cars.

The Roman city has proved to be one of the biggest in the ancient world. Its
estimated 30,000 citizens dominated the olive oil industry. Terracotta urns
from Ecija have been discovered as far away as Britain and Rome.

The region produced three Roman emperors — Trajan, Theodosius and Hadrian —
and the research has shown that Ecija was almost as important in the Roman
world as Cordoba and Seville.

The socialist council says that had it not dug up the main square, Plaza de
Espana, to build the car park in 1998, the remains would never have been
found. But it insists the town must press ahead with the new car park.

"Nonsense," says the town's chief archeologist, Antonio Fernandez Ugalde,
director of the municipal museum. "For some reason, the politicians here
think it is more important to park their own cars. It simply does not make
sense."

But despite opposition from numerous other archeological groups and the
Spanish Royal Academy of Art, there is now no possibility of restoring the
2,000-year-old Roman town.

The most exquisite discovery was a statue, known as the Wounded Amazon,
modelled on an ancient Greek goddess of war. Only three other such statues
are known to exist. The one in Ecija is in by far the best condition with
some of its original decorative paint intact.

Juan Wic, the mayor, who is responsible for the car park project, said he
was happy to have kept one of his main election pledges. He said it was
"essential for the commercial future of the square and city".
Merula

---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberius,

<I am on the computer at differnt times of the day depending on what is going on in school and at
home. Every post to the mainlist is approved by the staff of one of <the Praetors or by the
Praetors themselfs . VERY few have to wait very long to be posted if the person is on moderation.
The Praetorian staffs are very good <and very attentive to their duties.
<This statement "posts returned unchecked time after time regardless of content" is in my OPINION
without merit.

I agree with you. While I can't make the decision to take citizens off moderation, I check the list
4 times a day and so far this year I have approved only 3 posts because all of the posts had been
approved already. My calculation is that no one has to wait more than 4 hours to see a post
approved. And checking the moderation list, most posts are approved within an hour.

Vale,
Diana
a member of your praetorian staff!

Salve Caius Moravius Brutus

"In this context they never come off moderation
no matter how long they hang around"

In this statement of yours you are RIGHT. It seems that a large
number of list members who have been here for YEARS are still on
moderation.

I am taking steps to remove these people from moderation ASAP.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. These people should
have been off moderation a long time ago.

My apologies to all that fact this did not happen before now.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

It seems to me that there is NO reason why citizens of Nova Roma
should be moderated. If a citizen violates list protocol then by all
means they should be moderated, otherwise, it doesn't seem necessary
to moderate citizens. This IS the forum for Nova Roma citizens.

Non-Citizens (ALL non-citizens) should be moderated, no matter who
they are. This forum is for the citizens of Nova Roma and as such
they should be able to freely post, while being mindful of course of
the list policies.

If a non-citizen is asking a question then they can wait for the
necessary magistrate or scribe to approve their message. But citizens
shouldn't have to wait.

Once out of probationary status a citizen should be able to post freely.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 5/6/06, Timothy P. Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Caius Moravius Brutus
>
> "In this context they never come off moderation
> no matter how long they hang around"
>
> In this statement of yours you are RIGHT. It seems that a large
> number of list members who have been here for YEARS are still on
> moderation.
>
> I am taking steps to remove these people from moderation ASAP.
> Thank you for bringing this to our attention. These people should
> have been off moderation a long time ago.
>
> My apologies to all that fact this did not happen before now.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Morauio Bruto Ti. Galerio Paulino Cn. Equitio
Marino C. Domitio Catoni quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae uoluntatis
S.P.D.

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Moravius Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Domiti Cato et Equiti Marine!
>
> I am all in favour of responsible moderation however I find few things as
> frustrating as posting to groups which are not being properly attended to.
> Here we are trying to get people involved while there are groups within the NR
> "family" where any new members just have their posts returned unchecked time
> after time regardless of content. In this context they never come off
> moderation no matter how long they hang around. A person writes something
> because they have something to contribute or a question to ask. This, after
> all, is what groups and lists are primarily for. Domitius' method may be a
> little risky but at least it functions.
>
> Vale
>
> Caius Moravius Brutus

ATS: Domitius' method is more than risky on a large list such as the NR
ML, especially since the majority of the members are not citizens of NR.
People post all sorts of nonsense elsewhere, including photographs which are
at best in questionable taste, and spam appears like weeds in the spring.
We don't need, or want, such trash. We also have people who lurk for months
or years, then burst forth with inappropriate material, so it isn't only the
duration of moderation which matters; it's whether we know that the person
will not violate the guidelines which counts when we take someone off
moderation.

It is quite true that some of our groups are not well supervised, and
that those newer members who have attempted to post to these lists have had
their posts lapse unattended. That, of course, is hardly fair to them, or
the other members. We have a host of moderators on this board, but if the
sole moderator of some board is hospitalized, ill, injured, on vacation,
offline, overwhelmed with other matters, etc., posts do not get approved,
and that is one of the better reasons why all lists should have at least two
moderators.

It is, however, wise to remember (*once more, with feeling*) that
messages DO get lost in cyberspace. My own messages to boards I moderate
have gotten lost. Messages get lost between approval and appearance on any
given list, and messages get lost even when no approval is necessary. I did
not receive this message in my mail, or any of those on the results of the
comitia voting; possibly this was due to the fact that my ISP went offline
last evening, but possibly also it happened somewhere else along the line.
For the three weeks preceding Easter, I had to forward about ten messages a
day from each of several boards because they were of sufficient importance,
but did not reach my mailbox.

You must have escaped the frustration which ensued before the Lex
Equitia Familiaris ensued, when new citizens often had to wait months for
inattentive patres or matresfamilias of certain gentes to approve their
citizenships...

>
>
> PRAETORS NOTE: "responsible moderation" is the only kind of moderation given
> by this years Praetors and their repsective staffs.
>
> I am on the computer at differnt times of the day depending on what is going
> on in school and at home. Every post to the mainlist is approved by the staff
> of one of the Praetors or by the Praetors themselfs . VERY few have to wait
> very long to be posted if the person is on moderation. The Praetorian staffs
> are very good and very attentive to their duties.
>
> This statement "posts returned unchecked time after time regardless of
> content" is in my OPINION without merit.

ATS: I believe that the gentleman/men were referring to the situation
on the Sodalitas Virtutis board, and apparently that on the Religio Romana
one(s). These have been unattended until a new moderator was recently
appointed for Virtutis; what the situation is on the others, I know not,
though I subscribe to one of them as well as Virtutis. Newer members on
these boards have been unable to post; possibly new members have not been
approved, either, and the situation was highly undesirable. Other boards
are also in similar situations.

Posters should also realize (AGAIN!) that posts can get lost...and DO
get lost. It can also happen that posts arrive out of sequence, or many
hours after posting, even if they are not lost. Moreover, moderators sleep.
If your post arrives at three a.m. in the moderator's time zone, it may be a
while before it appears. Not many of us are in the Japanese time zone, for
example, though a fair number are in the GMT and CET zones, as well as the
Eastern US zone. We do, however, have different schedules, and generally
can get things approved fairly quickly...with the understanding that if, for
example, I am in the middle of correcting a paper or writing a test or a
letter, I don't check the mail until I have finished. It may be a while
before I get to check the mail again...and then the ISP must cooperate.
Probably other moderators act in similar fashion.

Additional comments below...

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
> Salve Gai Domiti,
>
> I'm pleased that your technique works for your groups. Things are
> different here.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Gaius Domitius Cato wrote:
>
>> Salve Omnes,
>>
>> For Groups that I own and moderate (all outside Nova Roma) I allow
>> people to join, post messages, links photos and polls freely. I
>> really do not want to or have time to read every post to approve it
>> and most people are not spammers.

ATS: Perhaps you are fortunate enough that your members have a
well-honed sense of propriety and are in full control of their tempers.
That isn't always the case. Here, we cannot, and do not, allow that. I
believe that only moderators may set up polls here, inter alia.

>>I can only check my groups from
>> time to time so I like to let them 'grow organically'. When I check
>> in if I see any spammers I ban them. When a otherwise good
>> member 'approches or crosses the line' I will warn them and that is
>> usually enough.

ATS: It's too late then, especially on an open board like this, which
has minor members, and provider rules to follow.

>>Insane or problem people that I have to ban are
>> very rare. Though it seems laissez-fair I maintain clean and
>> reasonably on topic groups where freedom of expression is fairly
>> broad and most anyone interested in the topic finds a welcoming
>> atmosphere.
>>
>> Vele bene,
>> C. Domititius Cato
>
>

Vale, et ualete,

A. Tullia Scholastica
Another member of the praetorian staff, and moderatrix of many a list.

>
>
>

>
>

---Salvete Omnes:

The Senior Consul wrote:


"Once out of probationary status a citizen should be able to post
freely"

And I agree. And if a citizen defies list rules beyond that, well,
then the matter can be dealt with.

Prior to the adoption of the three month probationary period, we had
problems with spammers, trolls etc., subbing to the list, leaving
their 'calling cards' and unsubbing right after, and possibly
resubbing under a different addie/profile. That's why it was
decided that all new subscribers, including citizen applicants,
would be placed on moderation from the outset. But, for sure, if
they are Nova Roman citizens post three months we should consider if
it's still necessary or even appropriate to be censoring their
communication in light of constitutional language regarding citizen
rights.

Equally, if folks are noncitizens and are just subscribers, how long
they remain on moderation is a matter for the Praetores to
consider...they are not citizens.

Valete
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> It seems to me that there is NO reason why citizens of Nova Roma
> should be moderated. If a citizen violates list protocol then by

all

> means they should be moderated, otherwise, it doesn't seem

necessary

> to moderate citizens. This IS the forum for Nova Roma citizens.
>
> Non-Citizens (ALL non-citizens) should be moderated, no matter who
> they are. This forum is for the citizens of Nova Roma and as such
> they should be able to freely post, while being mindful of course

of

> the list policies.
>
> If a non-citizen is asking a question then they can wait for the
> necessary magistrate or scribe to approve their message. But

citizens

> shouldn't have to wait.
>
> Once out of probationary status a citizen should be able to post

freely.

>
> Valete:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Consul
>
> On 5/6/06, Timothy P. Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Caius Moravius Brutus
> >
> > "In this context they never come off moderation
> > no matter how long they hang around"
> >
> > In this statement of yours you are RIGHT. It seems that a large
> > number of list members who have been here for YEARS are still on
> > moderation.
> >
> > I am taking steps to remove these people from moderation ASAP.
> > Thank you for bringing this to our attention. These people should
> > have been off moderation a long time ago.
> >
> > My apologies to all that fact this did not happen before now.
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>

Salve Modianus,

I've just posted this to the Praetors list:

About 1/3 of the members are on moderation. The problem is this is how the group is set up:

Anyone can join the list and receive automatic approval, but then they automatically remain on
moderation. Unless the moderators and list owners receive the auto messages that there is a new
member (or that someone switched their emails or that someone unsubscribed), the only way to
un-moderate new members is to go through the entire membership, see when the person joined and then
change the relevant ones to unmoderate.

The list should be set up that new memberships need to be approved. This way we can make an excel
file with the date that he/she joined and then unmoderate them after one month. It would be a lot
easier than the current way that the list is set up.

Vale,
Diana

Salve Consuls Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and Pompeia Minucia Tiberia

We are in complete agreement.

Unless a citizen violates the guidelines they should NOT be on
moderation. All new members of the list are put on automatic
moderation ( fine with me) but no time frame is linked to the
term "New member"

We are currently working to fix these problems and to remove all
citizens who should not be on moderation.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

Salve Pompeia,

<Prior to the adoption of the three month probationary period, we had
<problems with spammers, trolls etc., subbing to the list, leaving
<their 'calling cards' and unsubbing right after, and possibly
<resubbing under a different addie/profile.

Actually the probabtionary period has nothing to do with how the list is moderated. The praetors
team does not receive lists from the censors office on who is a citizen and who is not. so we have
no idea.
And once we say 'only citizens can post freely', then list list no longer becaome an open list,
which it always was....

The best solution is to approve new memberships and put them on moderation for an agreed timeframe.
Yes, there is the chance of someone waiting a month and then posting viagra or penis enlargement
adverstisements, but that is the chance that we need to take in order to make posting easier for the
citizens. There are enogh moderators that if we see one of these viagra/penis enlargement posts, we
can immediately put them on moderation as an emergency measure.

PS-- About 50% of the members are on moderation, not one third like I previously thought...

Vale,
Diana

C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano P. Minuciae Straboni Ti.
Galerio Paulino quiritibusque S.P.D.

Ye gods and little fishes! Something about which both consuls, a
praetor AND I agree! A banner day :-)

All citizens should be fee to post unless they abuse that right; all
non-citizens should be moderated as the praetors see fit.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Consuls Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and Pompeia Minucia Tiberia
>
> We are in complete agreement.
>
> Unless a citizen violates the guidelines they should NOT be on
> moderation. All new members of the list are put on automatic
> moderation ( fine with me) but no time frame is linked to the
> term "New member"
>
> We are currently working to fix these problems and to remove all
> citizens who should not be on moderation.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>

Q. Metellus Omnibus sal.

I thought this might be a good time for me to come out of my cave for a bit
of a breather.

Something that was a policy on this list for a few years while I was on
staff was to have all new members moderated. After about a month, the
moderators would remove a given new member from moderation. At the time, it
was a fairly reasonable way to determine that someone would not be a spam
bot. The only exception to this rule was for new members who never posted.
In that case, if a member posted who had joined a while ago but was still on
moderation, we'd quickly remove that member from moderation.

While I was on staff, I made it a point to check the members list every
Thursday, and remove moderation accordingly. In the time we were doing
this, so far as I know, we had only one mistake, with Domitius Constantinus.
If I recall correctly, this was because he had changed his email address,
and after he informed us, we quickly removed him from moderation.

This is the same policy I use on lists I moderate. In some cases, if I know
the email address, I'll remove the moderation immediately on joining. I've
only had one problem so far, and I'm inclined to think Yahoo's cave monster
came out for breakfast about then.

Anyhow, I'm still of the opinion that the policy in place is both just and
fair, and so long as the moderators are quickly approving messages, I think
it's something to keep in place.

Valete Optime!

Metellus Catoni sal.

Looks like I'll be out of the cave longer than I thought!

> Ye gods and little fishes! Something about which both
> consuls, a praetor AND I agree! A banner day :-)
>
> All citizens should be fee to post unless they abuse that
> right; all non-citizens should be moderated as the praetors see fit.

The only problem I see, which may have been why the policy I mentioned was
implemented, is knowing who is a citizen and who is not. There are a number
of ways to deal with this that, a few of which might be:

1. to require all citizen subscribers to use the address they have
registered with the Censors;
2. to require new citizen subscribers to inform the moderators of their
citizenship status and their Yahoo id or the email address they're using for
this list, so that the Praetors' office can easily remove moderation;
3. to require approval for all new subscribers, at the same time requiring
subscribers to state whether or not they are citizens (and, of course, give
their name as such).

The simplicity of the matter is that whatever method is used, it can become
a cumbersome operation as this list grows and more members subscribe every
day.

In my opinion, I don't think moderation necessarily curtails a citizen's
right to speak freely. So long as the posting is by a citizen, and clearly
so, and the moderators duly approve it, then the right is not curtailed.
If, on the other hand, the case is different, then, I think, we have
something for conversation.

Salve Consul,

David Kling (Modianus) wrote:

> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> It seems to me that there is NO reason why citizens of Nova Roma
> should be moderated.

On this we differ. You also differ with the vote of the citizens who
voted to have the praetors administer the main list some years back.
The standard practice is for everyone who joins this mailing list to go
into moderated status by default. After they've posted enough for the
praetors to feel that they're going to behave themselves the praetors
take them off moderation. It is solely up to the praetors to decide
when a given person comes off moderation (or goes back on).

Vale,

-- Marinus

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gn. Equitio Marino salutem dicit

We differ on far more than just this Censor.

I voiced my opinion on list moderation. It is up to the Praetors to
maintain the list, and I trust they will do just that.

Vale;

Modianus

On 5/6/06, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
> Salve Consul,
>
> David Kling (Modianus) wrote:
>
> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
> >
> > It seems to me that there is NO reason why citizens of Nova Roma
> > should be moderated.
>
> On this we differ. You also differ with the vote of the citizens who
> voted to have the praetors administer the main list some years back.
> The standard practice is for everyone who joins this mailing list to go
> into moderated status by default. After they've posted enough for the
> praetors to feel that they're going to behave themselves the praetors
> take them off moderation. It is solely up to the praetors to decide
> when a given person comes off moderation (or goes back on).
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Salvete

I am pleased to announce that the new issue of sestertii are now available.

http://harpax.biz/coins.html

The price is 50 cents US per coin and $6.00 US for each proof coin.

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Agrippa!

Great! I'll be sending in my order right away.

What is the status of the proofs? Are they in capsules? Will there be
certificates with them?

I suggest that you mention that the proofs are specially struck from
polished dies onto specially prepared planchettes. Extra pressure is
used to strike proofs and all operations are done by hand. This
results in a coin that is not only free from any machine marks, but
that also has a beautiful deep and full impression and a highly
polished surface.

For people who want to know more about our coins, you might want to
link to http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Coin_%28Nova_Roma%29 or
http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Sestertius_Signum . The second has info
about this issue, size, material, etc.

I should note that the image you have is of pre-production art. When
my coins arrive I'll try to protograph one and post the image.

Thank you for taking on the job of managing the distribution of these
coins!

Optime vale!

M. Lucr. Agricola


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
<canadaoccidentalis@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
>
> I am pleased to announce that the new issue of sestertii are now

available.

>
> http://harpax.biz/coins.html
>
> The price is 50 cents US per coin and $6.00 US for each proof coin.
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Barbarians.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius

On 5/6/06, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> This is so sad. What lack of vision those politicans have. They could
> have had far more revenue from tourists coming from far and wide to see this
> new fine and used that money to build as many parking lots as they wanted to
> elsewhere.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/6/2006 5:40:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
canadaoccidentalis@... writes:
I am pleased to announce that the new issue of sestertii are now available.
Excellent! I already put my order in.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've placed an order also.

Q Servilius Priscus

On May 6, 2006, at 8:55 PM, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/6/2006 5:40:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
canadaoccidentalis@... writes:
I am pleased to announce that the new issue of sestertii are now
available.
Excellent! I already put my order in.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Salve Romans

I would like to congratulate Titus Marcius Felix on his election as
Editor Commentarorum 2759 AUC. I know how hardworking and dedicated
he is and I look forward to the next issue of the Eagle.

With Titus Marcius Felix at the helm the newsletter is in very good
hands.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Nonis Maiis; haec dies fastus est.

"On the forty-eighth day after the vernal equinox, when the rising of
the Pleiades takes place, the bee swarms begin to increase in strength
and number." - Columella

"The Pleiades whose stars are these: - 'Lovely Teygata, and dark-faced
Elektra, and Alkyone, and bright Asterope, and Kelaino, and Maia, and
Merope, whom glorious Atlas begot ... In the mountains of Kyllene she
[Maia] bare Hermes, the herald of the gods." - Hesiod, Astronomy
Fragment 1 (from Scholiast on Pindar's Nemean Odea 2.16)

"To Atlas and Okeanos' daughter Pleione were born (on Arkadian
Kyllene) seven daughters called the Pleiades, whose names are Alkyone,
Merope, Kelaino, Elektra, Sterope, Taygete, and Maia. Of these,
Oinomaus married Sterope, and Sisyphos married Merope. Poseidon slept
with two of them: first with Kelaino, fathering Lykos, whom Poseidon
settled in the Islands of the Blest; and then with Alkyone, who bore
him a daughter Aithusa (the mother with Apollon of Eleuther), and sons
Hyrieus and Lykos Â… Zeus also slept with the other Atlantides." -
Apollodorus, The Library 3.110-111

"These [the twelve Horai] came down from heaven, for Memnon wailing
wild and high; and mourned with these the Pleiades. Echoed round
far-stretching mountains, and Aisepos' stream. Ceaseless uprose the
keen, and in their midst, fallen on her son and clasping, wailed Eos."
- Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 2.549

"At the base of these mountains, on the seaboard, are two caves. One
is the cave of the nymphs called Anigriades; the other is the scene of
the stories of the daughters of Atlas [Pleiades] and of the birth of
Dardanos." - Strabo, Geography 8.3.19

"The Pleiades (Many) were so named, according to Musaeaus, because
fifteen daughters were born to Atlas and Aethra, daughter of Oceanus.
Five of them are called Hyades, he shows, because their brother was
Hyas, a youth dearly beloved by his sisters. When he was killed in a
lion hunt, the five we have mentioned, given over to continual
lamentation, are said to have perished. Because they grieved
exceedingly at his death, they are called Hyades.

The remaining ten brooded over the death of their sisters, and brought
death on themselves; because so may experienced the same grief, they
were called Pleiades. Alexander says they were called Hyades because
they were daughters of Hyas and Boeotia, Pleiades, because born of
Pleio, daughter of Oceanus, and Atlas.

The Pleiades are called seven in number, but only six can be seen.
This reason has been advanced, that of the seven, six mated with
immortals (three with Jove, two with Neptunus, and one with Mars); the
seventh was said to have been the wife of Sisyphus. From Electra and
Jove, Dardanus was born; from Maia and Jove, Mercurius; from Taygete
and Jove, Ladedaemon; from Alcyone and Neptunus, Hyrieus; from Celaeno
and Neptunus, Lycus and Nycteus. Mars by Sterope begat Oenomaus, but
others call her the wife of Oenomaus. Merope, wed to Sisyphus, bore
Glaucus, who, as many say, was the father of Bellerophon. On account
of her other sisters she was placed among the constellations, but
because she married a mortal, her star is dim. Others say Electra does
not appear because the Pleiades are thought to lead the circling dance
for the stars, but after Troy was captured and her descendants through
Dardanus overthrown, moved by grief she left them and took her place
in the circle called Arctic. From this she appears, in grief for such
a long time, with her hair unbound, that, because of this, she is
called a comet. But ancient astronomers placed these Pleiades,
daughters of Pleione and Atlas, as we have said, apart from the Bull.
When Pleione once was travelling through Boeotia with her daughters,
Orion, who was accompanying her, tried to attack her. She escaped, but
Orion sought her for seven years and couldn't find her. Jove, pitying
the girls, appointed a way to the stars, and later, by some
astronomers, they were called the Bull's tail. And so up to this time
Orion seems to be following them as they flee towards the west. Our
writers call these stars Vergiliae, because they rise after spring.
They have still greater honour than the others, too, because their
rising is a sign of summer, their setting of winter - a thing is not
true of the other constellations." - Hyginus, Astronomica 2.21

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Columella, Hyginus, Strabo, Apollodorus, Quintus Smyrnaeus, Hesiod

C. Equitius Cato Cn. Equitio Marino sal.

Salve censor.

I completely understand the motivation behind the feeling behind
automatic moderation, and Metelle has made a good point regarding the
proper identification of speakers as citizens (or non); I guess I am
trying to balance this against the absolute feedom to speak in the
public Forum that I believe is fundamental to a free society. I won't
bother you with the inumerable quotes regarding the association of
free speech with liberty in general.

The question is: if we were all living together in a non-virtual
sense, would anyone be able to stop someone from running into the
Forum to speak? Would the Forum be walled off, sealed against any
*possible* intrusion of something that someone somewhere might find
"distasteful" ?

It is this last concept which troubles me. The idea that anything
"distasteful" should be kept out of public view is a very dangerous
one; not only because the definition of what may or may not be
"tasteful" differs from individual to individual, but also because it
assumes that the public is either not intelligent or not mature enough
to determine for themselves what they will read and what they will
pass over.

This follows what I see as a general pattern of hand-holding by the
government of the Republic; if we do not treat our citizens as adults
(at least those who are adults), why should our citizens bother to
*act* like adults?

Vale bene,

Cato

A. Claudius Scipio
Salvete omnis,
I concur with C. Equitius Cato in this. By being exposed to the full
truth, only then, can we make intelligent decisions for the future;
but, the full truth can only be revealed by allowing all to
participate in the Forum irregardless of citizenship status.
Valvete
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> C. Equitius Cato Cn. Equitio Marino sal.
>
> Salve censor.
>
> I completely understand the motivation behind the feeling behind
> automatic moderation, and Metelle has made a good point regarding

the

> proper identification of speakers as citizens (or non); I guess I

am

> trying to balance this against the absolute feedom to speak in the
> public Forum that I believe is fundamental to a free society. I

won't

> bother you with the inumerable quotes regarding the association of
> free speech with liberty in general.
>
> The question is: if we were all living together in a non-virtual
> sense, would anyone be able to stop someone from running into the
> Forum to speak? Would the Forum be walled off, sealed against any
> *possible* intrusion of something that someone somewhere might find
> "distasteful" ?
>
> It is this last concept which troubles me. The idea that anything
> "distasteful" should be kept out of public view is a very dangerous
> one; not only because the definition of what may or may not be
> "tasteful" differs from individual to individual, but also because

it

> assumes that the public is either not intelligent or not mature

enough

> to determine for themselves what they will read and what they will
> pass over.
>
> This follows what I see as a general pattern of hand-holding by the
> government of the Republic; if we do not treat our citizens as

adults

> (at least those who are adults), why should our citizens bother to
> *act* like adults?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>

> Salue, Censor Marine, salue, Consul Buteo, et saluete, omnes.
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> David Kling (Modianus) wrote:
>
>> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>> >
>> > It seems to me that there is NO reason why citizens of Nova Roma
>> > should be moderated.
>
> ATS: Actually, there are a good many reasons why citizens should be
> moderated.
>
> GEM: On this we differ. You also differ with the vote of the citizens who
> voted to have the praetors administer the main list some years back.
> The standard practice is for everyone who joins this mailing list to go
> into moderated status by default. After they've posted enough for the
> praetors to feel that they're going to behave themselves the praetors
> take them off moderation.
>
> ATS: And THAT, not citizenship, is the issue. Neither citizenship nor
> duration of membership on the ML (or any other) are proper criteria for
> removing members from moderation. ONLY when they have posted enough that we
> can be sure of their good behavior should anyone be taken off moderation.
> When Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus was praetor, the new members had to
> provide (I believe) twenty posts, and presumably the likes of Hello or I agree
> didn¹t count sufficiently toward that total. I think that a combination of
> duration and posting history is best as a guide for removal from moderation.
> Roman citizenship does not automatically guarantee good behavior (plenty of
> them have behaved rather badly here, some using vocabulary inappropriate for
> public discussion, to say nothing of that in the presence of minors, others
> resorting to the [usual, sad to say] ad hominem attacks and/or general
> aggression which has driven many a fine citizen out of NR, yet others
> advocating inappropriate behaviors or writing inflammatory, sometimes
> jingoistic, rants) that we cannot state that citizenship guarantees propriety.
> On the other hand, it is grossly unfair to the peregrini and socii to say that
> they automatically should be moderated, no matter who they are, as if all
> peregrini and socii were beneath our dignity and unfit to consort with us.
> They aren¹t. I also note that many become acquainted with NR through this and
> other lists, and if they are pleased, may take steps to become citizens...but
> if they see this sort of unfair treatment, they might go elsewhere. I see
> that two have left the list today.
>
> To reiterate, good behavior on this, and other lists, is not part and
> parcel of being a Roman citizen, nor is bad behavior part and parcel of not
> being one. Non-citizens and ex-citizens cannot vote, but there is no reason
> why they should be moderated when citizens are unmoderated, especially since a
> fair number of citizens has distinguished themselves by their LACK of good
> behavior. Fairness resides in posting history coupled with duration of
> membership, not duration alone, or citizenship alone, or citizenship in
> conjunction with membership duration.
>
>
> GEM: It is solely up to the praetors to decide
> when a given person comes off moderation (or goes back on).
>
> ATS: And I note that that is PLURAL, as in BOTH praetores, particularly
> the senior one, who presumably has been elected by more of the quirites. This
> is a momentous decision, and should not be made alone, nor should wholesale
> removal from moderation based solely on duration and/or citizenship be made
> alone. In actual practice, virtually everyone who posts is a citizen or tiro
> (probationary citizen), but we should not assume that tirones all deserve
> moderation, socii deserve moderation, peregrini deserve moderation, but
> citizens are above that merely by virtue of being citizens. This is grossly
> unfair.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Vale, et ualete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve A. Tullia Scholastica et al

Who said in part

"and I note that that is PLURAL, as in BOTH praetores, particularly
the senior one, who presumably has been elected by more of the
quirites. This is a momentous decision, and should not be made
alone, nor should wholesale removal from moderation based solely on
duration and/or citizenship be made alone. In actual practice,
virtually everyone who posts is a citizen or tiro (probationary
citizen), but we should not assume that tirones all deserve
moderation, socii deserve moderation, peregrini deserve moderation,
but citizens are above that merely by virtue of being citizens.
This is grossly unfair.

What is grossly unfair is a Praetor being AWOL, "particularly the
senior one" always AWOL. If he ever shows up to do some of OUR job
I will be grateful.

Until that day, month or year I will do "our" job.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

> What is grossly unfair is a Praetor being AWOL, "particularly the
> senior one" always AWOL. If he ever shows up to do some of OUR job
> I will be grateful.

I completely agree, having had to deal with such problems in the past.

I'm cc-ing Titus Octavius Pius, and asking him to answer this charge.
If he's been leaving you to take care of all praetorian business that's
certainly not as it should be.

While we await his answer, would you be so good as to explain to me the
arrangement you two have concerning praetorian duties? Who is supposed
to do what? Do you have a pre-arranged time to check in with each other?

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salve,
Well, I think I will use Magister Codicillorum(even if it is a long title).
I've set-up an e-mail address at "ams-province.org" to use.

Q Servilius Priscus

On 4/30/06, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo Q. Seruilio Prisco omnibusque
> S.P.D.
> >
> > A. Apollonius Q. Servilio omnibusque sal.
> >
> > Looks nice! Thanks for adding the link to Vox Romana.
> >
> > You asked:
> >
> > "What would a Blogmaster be called in Latin(or the equivalent of it)?"
> >
> > That's a tricky one. "Master" is easy enough - "dominus" (owner, master)
> would
> > probably be best, though you could use "magister" (manager, leader,
> > supervisor) too.
> >
> > But "blog" is very tricky. The problem is that there are two things
> Latin
> > isn't good at: sticking words together (e.g. web + log = weblog) and
> dropping
> > bits off the beginnings or ends of words (e.g. [we]blog). And you have
> to do
> > both those things to make "blog" in English.
> >
> > I think you could do it two ways. You could just use the word as it is
> in
> > English, "blog", and either treat it as indeclinable or whack a Latin
> ending
> > on it (probably either 'blogum' or 'blogis'). That would give you
> variations
> > like "blog dominus", "blogi dominus", "blogis dominus". It's not pretty,
> but
> > it's plausible.
> >
> > The other option is to go back to "web-log" and translate it into Latin,
> which
> > might give you something like "ephemeris electronica" ("electronic
> journal").
> > If you did it that way, you'd get "ephemeridis electronicae dominus".
> Longer,
> > but nicer.
> >
> > ATS: For what it¹s worth, my English-Latin dictionary gives
> codicilli
> > nautici for logbook, though obviously this is specific to the nautical
> sort of
> > logbook. Å’Tis the nature of the beast that the internal combustion
> engine was
> > unknown when our dictionaries were written, so there were no truckers
> who had
> > to keep logbooks. Magister codicillorum might work. So, too, might
> magister
> > codicum, (or caudicum); these two are variant spellings/pronunciations
> of the
> > same word.
> >
> > Either way, you might just say "dominus" for short.
> >
> > ATS: I don¹t like dominus as well as magister for this...
> >
> > Perhaps others will have other suggestions.
> >
> >
> > Vale, et ualete,
> >
> > ATS
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato A. Tulliae Scholasticae quiritibusque sal.

Salve et salvete.

Tullia Scholastica, you wrote:

"ONLY when they have posted enough that we > can be sure of their good
behavior should anyone be taken off moderation...some using vocabulary
inappropriate for > public discussion, to say nothing of that in the
presence of minors, others > resorting to the [usual, sad to say] ad
hominem attacks and/or general > aggression which has driven many a
fine citizen out of NR, yet others > advocating inappropriate
behaviors or writing inflammatory, sometimes > jingoistic, rants) that
we cannot state that citizenship guarantees propriety."

And although I understand the point you make, I do not agree with it.
Only because you use the words"good", "inappropriate",
"inflammatory", &c., and you are assuming that everyone has the same
threshold of what constitutes good or inflammatory or inappropriate
remarks or behaviour. This is patently not the case, and Yahoo!
provides certain guidelines under which, when we are operating under
their aegis, we must abide. Beyond that, we are then moving into
areas circumscribed only by individual preferences. Someone who lives
in a large urban area will have a much different outlook than someone
who lives in a rural area; neither is in and of itself "better" or
"worse", just different, based on experiences. I think this should be
considered when deciding what moderation means.

Vale et valete bene,

Cato

Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:

> What is grossly unfair is a Praetor being AWOL, "particularly
> the senior one" always AWOL. If he ever shows up to do some
> of OUR job I will be grateful.

Salve, Tiberi Galeri Pauline.

I will be the first to admit I am not digitally omnipresent - I do sleep
and upon occasion step away from my computer for hours, sometimes entire
days, without checking up on my e-mail. However, I must object somewhat
strenuously to your rather unwarranted attack.

This year there have been two major praetorial duties. First, the
continuing moderation, which is handled more frequently by our scribae
than by either of us, approximately half by either of our respective staffs.

The second duty would be the tribunal, now running on its third month
and still not past the opening statements. I explained that I did not
feel I could act impartially in the matter when you asked me to take
over the proceedings in mid-March.

If you're instead referring to how I have yet to act or speak in regards
to the matter of removing unknown, unproven parties from moderation en
masse, most of whom have never sent a single e-mail to the list and thus
never been subject to moderation, I have responded to the (singular)
private correspondence I have received on the matter, from one of my
scribae asking whether or not he should obey your commands given to him
and my other scribae.

As the above paragraph in all probability makes quite transparent, I am
of a differing opinion on the matter - I would prefer new members of the
list to demonstrate that they have joined in good faith before removing
them from moderation, not just letting time of arrival decide. Since I
didn't feel strongly on the issue I chose, however, to abstain from
issuing an intercessio to your actions.

In regards to issuing orders to my scribae, much less Quaestor Lentulus,
I must ask you to refrain from such behaviour without my express
consent. Even then, they are not obligated, in fact disallowed, to
adhere to such instructions without confirming them with me.

Your e-mail, I feel, was a hasty and ill-conceived attempt to evade the
issue raised by a previous poster by starting a non-constructive
conflict with me as its focus. I beg you to reconsider the utility of
such, since I can't fathom how it would serve the Republic we are both
oath-bound to protect. It only distracts us from the actual matters at hand.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, Senior Praetor.

Salvete Omnes,

Oath of Office of Titus Marcius Felix:

I, Titus Marcius Felix do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Titus Marcius Felix, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Titus Marcius Felix, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Titus Marcius Felix, swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Titus Marcius Felix, further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Editor Commentariorum to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Editor Commentariorum and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Valete.
Titus Marcius Felix



---------------------------------
Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail - 1GB de espaço, alertas de e-mail no celular e anti-spam realmente eficaz.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE ET SALVETE !

Congratulations Tite Felix. I wish you a good year.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Romans
>
> I would like to congratulate Titus Marcius Felix on his election as
> Editor Commentarorum 2759 AUC. I know how hardworking and dedicated
> he is and I look forward to the next issue of the Eagle.
>
> With Titus Marcius Felix at the helm the newsletter is in very good
> hands.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>

Salve Praetor Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus

"Your e-mail, I feel, was a hasty and ill-conceived attempt to evade
the issue raised by a previous poster by starting a non-constructive
conflict with me as its focus.'

So its always about you is it ??

It was your Scriba that came running senior Praetor this and senior
Praetor that. I responded to but was not the person who brought you
up in the conversation first.

How about the hundreds of Nova Romans and main list members who have
been on moderation for YEARS.

"If you're instead referring to how I have yet to act or speak in
regards to the matter of removing unknown, unproven parties from
moderation enmasse, most of whom have never sent a single e-mail to
the list and thus never been subject to moderation, I have responded
to the (singular) private correspondence I have received on the
matter, from one of my scribae asking whether or not he should obey
your commands given to him and my other scribae."

"As the above paragraph in all probability makes quite transparent,
I am of a differing opinion on the matter "

Surprise, surprise

You should have said of course you should do as he has asked He is a
Curule magistrate asking that you perform the duties of a Praetorian
Scriba.

"I would prefer new members of the list to demonstrate that they
have joined in good faith before removing them from moderation, not
just letting time of arrival decide. "

Would you please define "new" for me some have been on moderation
for three years!

According to Nova Roman Law a citizen can not be placed on
moderation for more than

TWO MONTHS without a court judgment to that effect.

OUR PRAETORIAN list guidelines that WE issued states that

"No citizen shall be kept in moderated status for more than 2 (two)
months after their last infraction against these guidelines without
a firm sentence issued by a legal court as described by the Lex
Salicia IudiciariaÂ…"

"In regards to issuing orders to my scribae, much less Quaestor
Lentulus, I must ask you to refrain from such behavior without my
express consent. Even then, they are not obligated, in fact
disallowed, to adhere to such instructions without confirming them
with me."

So now lawful orders of a Nova Roman Curule magistrate to
subordinate individuals to carryout their SWORN duties like list
moderation, are to be ignored ?

They don't work solely for you , you arrogant ARRRRRRRRRRRR.

They work for the Nova Roman state.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

I'm going to pass over the greater part of this message which I think
would be better dealt with in private e-mail between you and your
colleague.

I wish to address only:

Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:
[concerning scribes]

> They don't work solely for you [...]
>
> They work for the Nova Roman state.

You're wrong, praetor. Scribes are apparaitors, and as such answer
personally to the magistrate who appoints them. They are not elected by
the people, and do not answer to the people.

I advise you to never, ever attempt to order my censorial scribes to do
anything.

Vale,

-- Marinus

A. Tullia Scholastica T. Octavio Pio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis,
peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Somewhere between me and Yahoo at least one server is in its death
throes; most of the messages to this list have not arrived, and have had to
be forwarded twice or thrice before arriving. Presumably the same is true
of other lists. I was even unable to access the websites at times.

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Timothy P. Gallagher wrote:
>> What is grossly unfair is a Praetor being AWOL, "particularly
>> the senior one" always AWOL. If he ever shows up to do some
>> of OUR job I will be grateful.
>
> Salve, Tiberi Galeri Pauline.
>
> I will be the first to admit I am not digitally omnipresent - I do sleep
> and upon occasion step away from my computer for hours, sometimes entire
> days, without checking up on my e-mail. However, I must object somewhat
> strenuously to your rather unwarranted attack.
>
> This year there have been two major praetorial duties. First, the
> continuing moderation, which is handled more frequently by our scribae
> than by either of us, approximately half by either of our respective staffs.
>
> The second duty would be the tribunal, now running on its third month
> and still not past the opening statements. I explained that I did not
> feel I could act impartially in the matter when you asked me to take
> over the proceedings in mid-March.

ATS: The tribunal is in progress? Cordus and I were supposed to be
subscribed to the list for this, but I at least have not been. Shouldn't
the citizens be made aware that this is in progress, if in fact it is?

>
> If you're instead referring to how I have yet to act or speak in regards
> to the matter of removing unknown, unproven parties from moderation en
> masse, most of whom have never sent a single e-mail to the list and thus
> never been subject to moderation, I have responded to the (singular)
> private correspondence I have received on the matter, from one of my
> scribae asking whether or not he should obey your commands given to him
> and my other scribae.
>
> As the above paragraph in all probability makes quite transparent, I am
> of a differing opinion on the matter - I would prefer new members of the
> list to demonstrate that they have joined in good faith before removing
> them from moderation, not just letting time of arrival decide. Since I
> didn't feel strongly on the issue I chose, however, to abstain from
> issuing an intercessio to your actions.
>
> In regards to issuing orders to my scribae, much less Quaestor Lentulus,
> I must ask you to refrain from such behaviour without my express
> consent. Even then, they are not obligated, in fact disallowed, to
> adhere to such instructions without confirming them with me.

Thank you for that clarification. I had wondered whether I would be
expected to perform some duties in this regard, though perhaps any messages
to this effect also failed to appear. Apparently an earlier message from me
did reach this list (though not me) in which I also expressed a preference
for retaining moderation for those who had not posted and proven themselves,
irrespective of the duration of their membership, and had noted that
citizens and non-citizens do not differ in their abilities in regard to
proper or improper list behavior; both categories have individuals who
behave well, and both have those who do not. Citizenship does not
automatically confer exemplary behavior on anyone.

>
> Your e-mail, I feel, was a hasty and ill-conceived attempt to evade the
> issue raised by a previous poster by starting a non-constructive
> conflict with me as its focus. I beg you to reconsider the utility of
> such, since I can't fathom how it would serve the Republic we are both
> oath-bound to protect. It only distracts us from the actual matters at hand.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus, Senior Praetor.
>
> --- End forwarded message ---
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

>
>
>

vale
Would someone please tell me how to order the coins that are available
and can I pay for then through PayPal.
Respectfully
Marcam Sempronia Iustina

F. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.

It is the nature of human beings to act or post without much thought when
they feel they have been slighted, insulted, or accused of inaction. However,
I believe that it would be best for everyone concerned with this
matter--especially our praetores--to move forward quickly with resolving a legitimate
observation. Those citizens (assidui, capite censi, and socii) who have been on
moderation for longer than the period specified by our existing laws and
guidelines should be taken off moderation within the next seven days. The
primary duty of the praetores in Nova Roma is moderating and administering to the
lists. The scribes do as they are instructed but the bottom line is that
they act on the direction of the praetores and the sesterce stops with the
Praetores.
So, I would strongly suggest that my cousin and his colleague table any
other discussion until they get the job done. May Dii Immortales grant them
swift fingers, agile minds, and good thoughts until this task is accomplished.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "shiarraeltradaik"
<shiarraeltradaik@...> wrote:

>
> vale
> Would someone please tell me how to order the coins that are available
> and can I pay for then through PayPal.
> Respectfully
> Marcam Sempronia Iustina
>

M. Lucretius Agricola M. Semproniae Iustinae Omnibusque S.P.D.

Probably the easiest thing to remember is to just visit the wiki main
page:

http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Main_Page

You will be able there to spot the coins announcement. The most direct
thing would be to go to C. Vipsanius Agrippa's site:

http://harpax.biz/coins.html

He has them and I'm sure he does PayPal.

Optime vale et valete!

Salvete

I am a co-moderator on NewRoman. This is the procedure there:

All new members are automatically moderated.

At the time of the first post (assuming it is non-spam, and it never
is, the spammers leave without comment when they hit the wall of
moderation) I change the member's status to "use group settings". The
Group setting now is "no moderation". By using "Group setting" and not
"Never moderated" we retain the possibility that the entire group
could be switched to moderation with a few clicks. I am sure that will
never happen, but we have the capability.

If a citizen joins there and never posts that citizen will remain on
moderation forever. I see no problem with that. The system as we have
it on that group keeps the moderators' work to a minimum and keeps the
message board free of spam.

Let me repeat. I cannot see the problem if a member who never posts
remains on moderation. Being on moderation does not mean being
censored. It just means a moderator must open the gate for the first
message. The gate remains open thereafter.

Optime valete

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.
>
> It is the nature of human beings to act or post without much
thought when
> they feel they have been slighted, insulted, or accused of
inaction. However,
> I believe that it would be best for everyone concerned with this
> matter--especially our praetores--to move forward quickly with
resolving a legitimate
> observation. Those citizens (assidui, capite censi, and socii) who
have been on
> moderation for longer than the period specified by our existing
laws and
> guidelines should be taken off moderation within the next seven
days. The
> primary duty of the praetores in Nova Roma is moderating and
administering to the
> lists. The scribes do as they are instructed but the bottom line
is that
> they act on the direction of the praetores and the sesterce stops
with the
> Praetores.
> So, I would strongly suggest that my cousin and his colleague table
any
> other discussion until they get the job done. May Dii Immortales
grant them
> swift fingers, agile minds, and good thoughts until this task is
accomplished.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est postridie Nonas Maius (ante diem VIII Idus Maius); haec dies
fastus aterque est.

"Why do they reckon the day that follows the Kalends, the Nones, or
the Ides as unsuitable for leaving home or for travel?

Is it, as most authorities think and as Livy records, that on the day
after the Ides of Quintilis, which they now call July, the military
tribunes led out the army, and were vanquished in battle by the Gauls
at the river Allia and lost the City? But when the day after the Ides
had come to be regarded as ill-omened, did superstition, as is its
wont, extend the custom further, and involve in the same
circumspection the day after the Nones and the day after the Kalends?

Or does this contain many irrational assumptions? For it was on a
different day that they were defeated in battle, a day which they call
Alliensis from the river, and make a dread day of expiation; and
although they have many ill-omened days, they do not observe them
under the same names in each month, but each in the month in which it
occurs; and it is thus quite incredible that the superstition should
have attached itself simply to all the days that follow immediately
after the Nones or the Kalends.

Consider the following analogy: just as they have dedicated the first
month to the gods of Olympus, and the second, in which they perform
certain rites of purification and sacrifice to the departed, to the
gods of the lower world, so also in regard to the days of the month
they have established three as festive and holy days, as I have
stated, which are, as it were, fundamental and sovereign days; but the
days which follow immediately they have dedicated to the spirits and
the dead, and have come to regard them as ill-omened and unsuitable
for business. In fact, the Greeks worship the gods on the day of the
new moon; the next day they have duly assigned to the heroes and
spirits, and the second bowl of wine is mixed in honour of the heroes
and heroines. And speaking generally, time is a sort of number; and
the beginning of number is divine, for it is the monad. But after it
is the dyad, antagonistic to the beginning number, and the first of
the even numbers. The even numbers are imperfect, incomplete, and
indeterminate, just as the odd numbers are determinate, completing,
and perfect. Wherefore, in like manner, the Nones succeed the Kalends
at an interval of five days and the Ides succeed the Nones at an
interval of nine days. For the odd numbers define the beginnings but
even numbers, since they occur after the beginnings, have no position
nor power; therefore on these days they do not begin any business or
travel.

Since, therefore, all travel and all business of importance needs
provision and preparation, and since in ancient days the Romans, at
the time of festivals, made no provision or plan for anything, save
only that they were engaged in the service of their gods and busied
themselves with this only, just as even to this day the priests cause
such a proclamation to be made in advance as they proceed on their way
to sacrifice; so it was only natural that they did not set out on a
journey immediately after their festivals, nor did they transact any
business, for they were unprepared; dbut that day they always spent at
home making their plans and preparations.

Or is it even as men now, who have offered their prayers and
oblations, are wont to tarry and sit a while in the temples,55 and so
they would not let busy days succeed holy days immediately, but made
some pause and breathing-space between, since business brings with it
much that is distasteful and undesired?" - Plutarch, "The Roman
Questions" 25



Today St. Michael the Archangel made a miraculous appearance at Monte
Gargano in Manfredonia in southern Italy. This Christian saint, Prince
of All Angels, was the leader of the army of God during the Lucifer
uprising, casting Satan out of Paradise. He is one of only two angels
named in the canonical scriptures, the other being Gabriel. He is
associated with the planet Mercury. Muslims, Christians and Jews all
express devotion to him, and there are writings about him in all three
religions. Considered the guardian angel of Israel, Michael's name
means in Hebrew, 'Who is like God?', referring not to the archangel
himself but rather his battle cry. When the Archangel appeared to the
Bishop of Siponto, Michael requested that a church be built in his
honour at the place. St Romuald once assigned emperor Otho III the
penance of a barefoot pilgrimage to Saint Michael's Church on Mount
Gargano.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Plutarch, Wikipedia

Quaestor praetoris T. Octavi Cn. Cornelius Lentulus: M. Lucretio Agricolae: salutem:

I completely agree with your comments, Marce Lucreti!

>>> If a citizen joins there and never posts that citizen will remain on

moderation forever. I see no problem with that. The system as we have
it on that group keeps the moderators' work to a minimum and keeps the
message board free of spam. <<<<

As a Praetorial Quaestor, this is also my opinion:

>>> I cannot see the problem if a member who never posts

remains on moderation. Being on moderation does not mean being
censored. It just means a moderator must open the gate for the first
message. The gate remains open thereafter. <<<

VALETE!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I would like to congratulate Titus Marcius Felix on his election as
> Editor Commentarorum 2759 AUC. I know how hardworking and dedicated
> he is and I look forward to the next issue of the Eagle.
> With Titus Marcius Felix at the helm the newsletter is in very good
> hands.
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Congratulations, Felix amice!!!!

I hope you can go on with the same excelent level your are doing in
Provincia Brasilia!!!

Vale
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

Salve Diana et Tiberi!

Just to be clear my comments about posts being returned unchecked referred to problems on the Sodalitas Virtutis list which have just recently been sorted out and on the Religio Romana list which have not, as far as I can see. I am not personally aware of any problems of this nature on the main-list which in my experience has always worked well. Nonetheless, Tiberi, thank you for moving so swiftly towards sorting out the problems with the list for which you are responsible!

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
Salve Tiberius,

<I am on the computer at differnt times of the day depending on what is going on in school and at
home. Every post to the mainlist is approved by the staff of one of <the Praetors or by the
Praetors themselfs . VERY few have to wait very long to be posted if the person is on moderation.
The Praetorian staffs are very good <and very attentive to their duties.
<This statement "posts returned unchecked time after time regardless of content" is in my OPINION
without merit.

I agree with you. While I can't make the decision to take citizens off moderation, I check the list
4 times a day and so far this year I have approved only 3 posts because all of the posts had been
approved already. My calculation is that no one has to wait more than 4 hours to see a post
approved. And checking the moderation list, most posts are approved within an hour.

Vale,
Diana
a member of your praetorian staff!




SPONSORED LINKS
Ancient history Citizenship test

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "Nova-Roma" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! 360° NEW – Your one place to blog, create, publish & share!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cai Moravi,

Caius Moravius Brutus <crwbanmor@...> writes:

> Just to be clear my comments about posts being returned unchecked
> referred to problems on the Sodalitas Virtutis list which have just
> recently been sorted out and on the Religio Romana list which have not, as
> far as I can see.

The Religio list is maintained by the Pontifex Maximus and his designated
alternates. The praetores have no authority over it.

The Sodalitas Virtutis is an unofficial sodalitas that has never obtained
Senate approval. It is an entirely private group, and also outside of the
purview of the praetores. Even the official Senate approved sodalites are
not under praetorian control, though complaints about them can be brought to
the Senate. Not so with the unofficial groups.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salve Quaestor Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

The reason we can not just let list members stay on moderation
until they post it is against the list guidelines and Nova Roma law.

The only way anybody can be remain on moderation for more that two
months is by a Nova Roman court order.

Not one has ever been issued.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Quaestor praetoris T. Octavi Cn. Cornelius Lentulus: M. Lucretio

Agricolae: salutem:

>
> I completely agree with your comments, Marce Lucreti!
>
> >>> If a citizen joins there and never posts that citizen will

remain on

> moderation forever. I see no problem with that. The system as we

have

> it on that group keeps the moderators' work to a minimum and keeps

the

> message board free of spam. <<<<
>
> As a Praetorial Quaestor, this is also my opinion:
>
> >>> I cannot see the problem if a member who never posts
> remains on moderation. Being on moderation does not mean being
> censored. It just means a moderator must open the gate for the

first

> message. The gate remains open thereafter. <<<
>
> VALETE!
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R
> -------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
> Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Tiberi Galeri,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> writes:

> The reason we can not just let list members stay on moderation
> until they post it is against the list guidelines and Nova Roma law.

Please cite that law praetor.

> The only way anybody can be remain on moderation for more that two
> months is by a Nova Roman court order.

I think you'll discover that the law says no one may be kept on moderation
after having been placed there for violating the published posting guidance.
It does not address initial moderation at all. You're conflating two
different things.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS